From mmower at novissio.com  Sat Jun 28 16:13:31 2003
From: mmower at novissio.com (Matt Mower)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 21:13:31 +0100
Subject: Have I broken my installation?
References: <b8crfvcsd8pit555p24rrc19f05a9578pb@4ax.com> <mailman.1056829361.11127.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <h7trfv8teq5es6qj2gi7c7op548k77mq50@4ax.com>

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 21:40:12 +0200, Andreas Jung
<lists at andreas-jung.com> wrote:

>I think you should have installed a recent version of Expat.
>

You and Martin were both correct.  This was the essential step.

|<module '_xmlplus' from '/opt/python/lib/python2.2/site-packages/_xmlplus/__init__.pyc'>
|<module 'xml.dom' from '/opt/python/lib/python2.2/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/__init__.pyc'>
|<module 'xml.dom.minidom' from '/opt/python/lib/python2.2/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/minidom.pyc'>

Which is what I think Martin was expecting to see earlier.

My thanks to you both.

Regards,

Matt




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  9 15:05:37 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:05:37 -0600
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
In-Reply-To: <6qfzmjumq7.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>; from bh@intevation.de on Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 08:31:12PM +0200
References: <mailman.1055139135.30925.python-list@python.org> <6qptlnux3w.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055177065.4464.python-list@python.org> <6qfzmjumq7.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <20030609130537.I1359@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Bernhard Herzog:
> Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:
  [using raise w/ traceback, without warnings, in all 2.x]
> > This is a defect, but I couldn't come up with anything better when
> > I was writing the PEP.
> 
> The easiest would be to introduce the new syntax with the future
> statement in 2.4 and start issuing warnings several releases later.
>
> I'd also recomment not issuing warnings about "raise SomeClass, val" in
> 2.4 either except perhaps when explicitly switched on. 

Ah.  Yes, a slower migration is certainly possible.  One of my
reasons for submitting the PEP was to find out how quickly such a
change could occur -- you're not the only person to suggest it
would have to be slower than I propose.

  [...]
> > Part of my problem here is that I'm not
> > familiar enough with real-life uses of the traceback argument.  Do
> > you use it?
> 
> Yes, occasionally.

I'd like to hear more about this -- in what circumstances, and to
what end?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"What I find most baffling about that song is that it was not a hit."
                                          -- Tony Dylan Davis (CKUA)




From t_therkelsen at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 10 10:50:39 2003
From: t_therkelsen at hotmail.com (Troels Therkelsen)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 14:50:39 GMT
Subject: Confusing behaviour relating to module objects being GCed.
Message-ID: <slrnbebs1t.dk.t_therkelsen@abattoir.2-10.org>

Hello helpful people at c.l.py :-)

I'm having a problem in a large framework relating to using custom __import__
and reload hooks.  I've been able to reduce the code that demonstrates this
problem to this Python code (it probably can be reduced further by the more
Python-savvy than yours truly):

Python 2.3b1 (#1, Apr 27 2003, 22:07:38) 
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import new
>>> mone = new.module('mone')
>>> mone.mtwo = new.module('mtwo')
>>> mone.mtwo.var = 42
>>> exec "def func():\n  print var\n  delmtwo()\n  print var\n" in mone.mtwo.__dict__
>>> def delmtwo():
...   delattr(mone, 'mtwo')
... 
>>> mone.mtwo.delmtwo = delmtwo
>>> mone.mtwo.func()             # FIRST CASE
42
None
>>> mone.mtwo = new.module('mtwo')
>>> mone.mtwo.var = 42
>>> exec "def func():\n  print var\n  delmtwo()\n  print var\n" in mone.mtwo.__dict__
>>> keepref = mone.mtwo
>>> mone.mtwo.delmtwo = delmtwo
>>> mone.mtwo.func()             # SECOND CASE
42
42

The problem is that after mone.mtwo.func() calls delmtwo() which removes the
mtwo module from mone and thus reduces the ref-count to 0 (in the first case),
func.im_func.func_globals starts showing a very peculiar behaviour.  Basically,
all of the module-level variable *names* stay, but all the *values* become
None.  As the second call to func() demonstrates, if I keep an 'external'
ref to the module which is deleted from mone, everything is fine.

I am at a loss explaining this behaviour, and I would greatly appreciate
enlightment that either confirms that this is a bug, or explains why it
isn't :-)

Best regards,

Troels Therkelsen




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sat Jun 21 17:31:34 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:31:34 +0200
Subject: "a in b" calls a.__cmp__, why?
In-Reply-To: <s9ucnbWjlZxYXmmjXTWJkw@comcast.com>
References: <mailman.1056224677.5103.python-list@python.org> <s9ucnbWjlZxYXmmjXTWJkw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <20030621213134.GA9454@nl.linux.org>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> "Gerrit Holl" <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1056224677.5103.python-list at python.org...
> > Why does a container-sequence's __contains__ call obj.__cmp__?
> 
> Because 'in' is defined by equality, as determined by comparison
> returning 0 or not ,  and not by identity.

Ah, thanks... I'll override __eq__ then to compare by equality.

> If you want identity in-ness, either program the search yourself or
> use a list  (or dict/set) of ids and search for id(item) in idlist.
> 
> If your list is long (enough) and repeatedly searched, sorting and
> using binsearch or making a set or dict for hash access will be
> faster.

I will try that.
Thanks!

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
168. If a man wish to put his son out of his house, and declare before
the judge: "I want to put my son out," then the judge shall examine into
his reasons. If the son be guilty of no great fault, for which he can be
rightfully put out, the father shall not put him out.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jun 29 18:49:20 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 00:49:20 +0200
Subject: Memory Address' of Python Objects
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1056917209.21436.python-list@python.org>
References: <20030626131817.GA4097@nl.linux.org> <m2el1gvs9o.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <20030628133906.GA3705@nl.linux.org> <m2isqo7l55.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <mailman.1056917209.21436.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bdnqbd$uugh0$1@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de>

Peter Markowsky wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've been searching through the Python Essential Reference, and
> python.org but I can't seem to find a way to get the memory address
> for an object in python. Please help. How do you get the address of an
> object in memory?

id(obj)

What do you intend to do with this information? If you want to use this 
to manipulate the object from outside Python, it's almost certainly the 
wrong way of doing it.

-- Gerhard




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Fri Jun 13 21:32:15 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:32:15 -0600
Subject: getFoo1() vs. class.foo1
In-Reply-To: <z7tGa.87450$pR3.1850658@news1.tin.it>; from manuelbastioniNOSPAM@tin.it on Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 11:29:35PM +0000
References: <z7tGa.87450$pR3.1850658@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <20030613193215.D2309@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Manuel:
  [...]
> class VerySimple:
>         foo1 = 1
>         foo2 = 2
>         foo3 = 3
> etc...
> 
> Any professional developers tell me that
> I must use get and set (to private variable)
> method instead.
  [...]

Java programmers often do this, for two reasons that I know of:

1. Java encourages you -- by design -- to hide your data from
other code, for fear that the other code will break you.  (Python
encourages a more trusting, friendly attitude.)

2. If you use separate get/set methods even for simple data, then
you don't have to worry about API compatibility when the day comes
that you want to make access to that data more complicated -- say,
computing it on the fly instead of storing it, or logging all
accesses, or whatever.  (In Python this is no longer a big
concern, since you can change a simple attribute into a property,
leaving your API unchanged.)

In short: don't do this in Python.  In Java it's okay.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I tried to be pleasant and accommodating, but my head
 began to hurt from his banality."   -- _Seven_ (1996)




From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Jun  9 07:13:48 2003
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:13:48 +0200
Subject: list.index
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030606154116.009ed760@pop3.zonnet.nl>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030606154116.009ed760@pop3.zonnet.nl>
Message-ID: <20030609111348.GA752@thomas-guettler.de>

On Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 03:49:58PM +0200, delphiro wrote:
> First of all many, many thanks to the creators / maintainers of Python.
> 
> Since my discovery of this holy grail I have a development time for platform indepandent software which is almost identical to what is possible with Delphi for Windows. It is realy a great language and easily learned with my C / C++ and mostly Object Pascal experience. THANKS!
>  
> Now to the question...
> 
> is this the easiest way to check for the existance of an item in a list?
> it looks a bit weird to check a for a listitem by using a try..except block
> 
> (code background; if the item is found the colour should change else the colour that was already given is ok)
> [mycode]
> try:
>   x = self.selected_points.index( self.pointmarker )
>   colour = DEFAULT_SELECTED_POINT_COLOUR
> except ValueError:
>   pass
> [/mycode]

Hi!

For things like this I often use a dictionary with a list as value
(not tested code):

points={}

#add point:
old_value=points.get(mypoint)
if not old_value:
    old_value=[]
    points[mypoint]=old_values
old_values.append(mypoint)

#get points which are at mypoint:
mypoint_list=points.get(mypoint)

 thomas


-- 
Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de>
http://www.thomas-guettler.de





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jun 10 00:57:49 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 00:57:49 -0400
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
References: <mailman.1055139135.30925.python-list@python.org> <l1brx7dk9h.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <bc3ogd$hkq$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <l1brx7dk9h.fsf at budvar.future-i.net>,
Ed Avis  <ed at membled.com> wrote:
>
>Why not go further and make it look like a normal function call, that
>can take zero one or two arguments?
>
>    raise_stmt ::= "raise" "(" [expression ["," expression]] ")"
>
>No arguments - raise() - would re-raise the currently active
>exception, and so on.

Well, that would essentially make it no longer a statement.  raise
pretty much needs to remain a statement to fit in with the try/except
control structure.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From jiwon at softwise.co.kr  Thu Jun 19 23:47:50 2003
From: jiwon at softwise.co.kr (Jiwon Seo)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 20:47:50 -0700
Subject: Alternatives to Python ?
References: <3EF18A03.3050706@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <a6154072.0306191947.5f5510@posting.google.com>

Gary Duncan <gmduncan at netspace.net.au> wrote in message news:<3EF18A03.3050706 at netspace.net.au>...
> There's been occasional not-unfavourable comments in this news-group
> about the pros-and-cons of other so-called "high-level-languages" like
> Ruby, and Haskell , and others too.
> 
> I can't afford to buy more than one such book from the list of HLLs;
> so what would you suggest ?
> 
> 
> - Gary  (currently reading "Don Qixote - for Dummies" - hilarious )

The question could be, why would you want to read such books? 
I assume that you want to read a book for concepts for programming
rather for descriptions of language, for learning a new language
should mean learning new ways of thinking, and in that case, I'd
recommend you to read SICP.

The examples in the book happens to be written in scheme, so you'll
get to learn second oldest programming language in the world for a
sort of bonus. But the real benefit is, you'll get to learn the ways
of building programs, and to think with abstractions. If you've
already read that book, you would not need to read a book for Haskell,
or some other language. You would only need an online manual to get
used to it.



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jun 10 13:12:42 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 10:12:42 -0700
Subject: Rudeness with names (was Re: interpreted)
References: <M6icneVATOpIWn6jXTWcrg@comcast.com> <mailman.1055194463.17365.python-list@python.org> <bc3ong$i2h$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1055244679.25761.python-list@python.org> <bc4p33$pp0$1@panix3.panix.com> <mailman.1055255001.19136.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306100912.8946854@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055255001.19136.python-list at python.org>...
> Aahz wrote:
> > Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> >> [Aahz didn't like me calling anonymous posters "anonymous cowards"]
> >>I too feel offended by:
> >>
> >>- anonymous posters
> >>- top-posting
> >>- broken quoting
> >>
> >>In one word: carelessness.
> >>
> >>Occasionally I will make originators aware of this. If you can't live 
> >>with this, feel free to killfile me.
> > 
> > That's fine, and you may recall that I've made comments about top-posting
> > and broken quoting in the past.  But one needn't be rude and insulting
> > when doing so, particularly in the first response to any given person --
> > that's not a "nudge".  A better response would be something like,
> > "Should I call you 'Ifman1'?"
> 
> Ok, good point. Thanks for the constructive criticism.
> 
> -- Gerhard

I have seen Gerhard using "anonymous cowards" before and liked
the joke. I didn't imagine it could be taken seriously as an offence.
Especially since he was helpful with the posters. Actually, I was tempted
to use the expression myself but at this point I don't think it would be 
a good idea. Anyway, I can always use "Should I call you 'Ifman1'?" ;-)


                              Michele


                                       Michele



From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Jun 18 04:16:54 2003
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 01:16:54 -0700
Subject: Error when accessing remote registry
References: <MPG.195944633bcdf771989681@news2.atlantic.net>
Message-ID: <8360efcd.0306180016.638b87e@posting.google.com>

> c42 <nospam at nospam.net> wrote
> I'm using the following code to check the registry on a remote machine. 
> The code works fine when it hits a Windows 2000 Pro or 
> Windows XP Pro box, but crashes when it hits Windows NT4 workstation
> (WindowsError: [Errno 87] 

> -----------------------------
> Sample code:
> MachName = "TEST_1"
> aReg = ConnectRegistry(MachName,HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)        
> aKey = OpenKey(aReg, r"SOFTWARE\\Network Associates\\TVD\\Shared 
> Components\\On Access Scanner\\McShield\\Configuration") 
> -----------------------------

[snip error]

(btw, would be useful if you posted a piece of code 
 that could just be dropped into an editor and run;
 it took me at least three seconds to work out that
 I needed to do a [from _winreg import *] first :)

I don't have access to an NT4 machine here, but what
 jumps out at me at first is that you're doubling up
 the backslashes *within* a raw string. Is that intentional?
 It seems not to mind on my Win2k box (I tried it both
 ways) but maybe that's the problem.

Ahh. Just tried it on an NT server; it _is_ the doubled
 backslashes. Try changing your OpenKey line to:

aKey = OpenKey(aReg, r"SOFTWARE\Network Associates\TVD\Shared
Components\On Access Scanner\McShield\Configuration")

(blithely ignoring my own advice about posting
 runnable snippets. Oh well.)

TJG



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  9 13:29:07 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:29:07 -0600
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
In-Reply-To: <iPudnfDn8siKEnmjXTWcog@comcast.com>; from tjreedy@udel.edu on Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 09:43:39AM -0400
References: <mailman.1055139135.30925.python-list@python.org> <iPudnfDn8siKEnmjXTWcog@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <20030609112907.C1209@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Terry Reedy:
> I would change  'raise_with_two_args' to something shorter, like
> 'raise_instance' or even 'new_raise'.

I'm open to such suggestions, but do note that almost all users
will have no need for this future statement -- it's only useful to
users who need the traceback argument.  The present name is
intended to suit such people, who will be adding it to deal with a
warning that says "raising with three arguments will be impossible
in the future".

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "[W]e must be very careful when we give advice
staschuk at telusplanet.net    to younger people: sometimes they follow it!"
                             -- "The Humble Programmer", Edsger Dijkstra




From andersjm at inbound.dk  Sun Jun  1 12:40:56 2003
From: andersjm at inbound.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 18:40:56 +0200
Subject: Is there a better way of coding this?
References: <bbd6so$4sb$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <T0qCa.23525$YZ6.1157240@news010.worldonline.dk>

"Edward C. Jones" wrote:
> I wrote the following code so the writer of "Fgeti" could ignore some
> subtle error processing. Can this code be rewritten without the template
> and the exec?

Yes.  Use getattr, setattr and a nested function.  Something like
this:

# very much untested code follows:
def makeprop(getname, truename, funnanme):
    def fget(self):
        # Subtle error processing here.
        setattr(self, truename, getattr(self, funname)(self.data))
        return getattr(self, truename)
    return property(fget, None, None)

class X(object):
    i = makeprop('geti', '_i', 'Fgeti')
    ...

- Anders






From alexferri at email.it  Fri Jun  6 12:02:36 2003
From: alexferri at email.it (Alex)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 16:02:36 GMT
Subject: SQLite
Message-ID: <wW2Ea.51542$pR3.1085828@news1.tin.it>

Hi All,
exists a software GUI to manage database SQLite?


Thank you,
Alex - Italy





From edreamleo at charter.net  Sat Jun 28 12:02:58 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 11:02:58 -0500
Subject: Distutils directory questions
References: <vfrerrib3ecp74@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <vfrf1oendeilca@corp.supernews.com>

I meant to say:

recursive-include ../subdirectory file
recursive-include <full path> file

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From nobody at nospam.net  Thu Jun  5 15:04:18 2003
From: nobody at nospam.net (mrkurt)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:04:18 -0400
Subject: GUI in Windows
In-Reply-To: <0fttdvc2h72rt1tevpcfcpm9c5ba71ahr2@4ax.com>
References: <bb32dv$k2q$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <0fttdvc2h72rt1tevpcfcpm9c5ba71ahr2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vdv4n86lqdftc3@corp.supernews.com>

Take a look at wxPython: http://www.wxpython.org.  It's a windowing 
toolkit for both Win32 and GTK on the *nix platforms.  Lots of widgets, 
very popular with Python GUI developers. --mrkurt

Afanasiy wrote:
> On Wed, 28 May 2003 13:15:02 -0700, morden <morden at shadows.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Suppose I need to do some GUI on Windows. My understanding is that 
>>pythonTk is flaky on Windows. My top requirement is
>>that the toolkit is robust. The second requirement
>>is that the widget set is large.
>>
>>I don't need anything fancy though,
>>buttons, comboboxes, widgets for entering text/integers/date/time/etc,
>>tables, groups, top and pull down menus.
>>
>>If it's portable it's a plus.
>>
>>Again, I want something with extensive track record and _very stable_
>>like pythonTk wrapper on UN*X platforms.
> 
> 
> I just want to say it's hilarious how many questions this question brings.
> 




From wrbt at email.com  Mon Jun  9 12:44:06 2003
From: wrbt at email.com (Larry)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 09:44:06 -0700
Subject: Python-ASP
References: <YrxEa.108356$h42.12516@twister.nyc.rr.com> <3EE3394F.1050807@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <2ec1bc1c.0306090844.7f62c81@posting.google.com>

Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote in message news:<3EE3394F.1050807 at mxm.dk>...
> Eugene C. wrote:
> > Does anyone here use Python with ASP? If yes, then please tell me if you
> > have experienced the problem below, and what, if any, were your solutions.
> 
> You are probably not using the latest version of Win32. There was a 
> problem like that in earlier versions.

Yup, ActiveState was (is?) known to have a flawed win32 package that
causes this blank asp page drama. Get the goods from here:
http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/Downloads.html



From wester at ilt.fhg.de  Fri Jun 13 03:37:22 2003
From: wester at ilt.fhg.de (Rolf Wester)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:37:22 +0200
Subject: How to pause within a thread
Message-ID: <bcbuvp$d6j$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>

Hi,

I have a thread that is polling a server for completion of a routine.
This thread should only consume little cpu time so I want to pause this
thread between calls to the server. Is there any simple function for 
this or do I have to use a Timer object?

Thanks in advance

Rolf Wester




From brjohan at email.com  Sun Jun  1 17:19:16 2003
From: brjohan at email.com (Bror Johansson)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 23:19:16 +0200
Subject: Pre Python
Message-ID: <bbdqg2$82bnq$1@ID-59332.news.dfncis.de>

Is Python's "predecessor" ABC (for MS-DOS) still available somewhere?

I played with it more than ten years ago and would now like to have a look
at it again.

/BJ





From wxyisok at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 25 00:44:15 2003
From: wxyisok at hotmail.com (wang xiaoyu)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 21:44:15 -0700
Subject: Only One Tkinter Entry can receive key event event in Linux RH8.0
Message-ID: <e4b04915.0306242044.3051f1ed@posting.google.com>

Hello,everyone.
  my program runs well in windows,i use tkSimpleDialog to receive some
input,but when i copy my program into Linux RH8.0,entrys in my
tkSimpleDialog derived Dialog have a vital problem:only one entry can
receive key event,'tab' key to navigate between entrys is not valid
too,when i use mouse to focus a entry(which can not navigate through
'tag' key),no matter what key i pressed the entry receive no reply.But
in window they are all works well.
  even the simplest python program like follow have the seem manner.
from Tkinter import *
r=Tk()
Entry().pack()
Entry().pack()
r.mainloop()
  in above program only the second entry can receive key event.(but
when i type program in Python environment it works well)
  I must say there is no fault the first time i run above program
after i install ActivePython2.2 in my Linux.Both entry can receive key
event.but after i do the following operations the problem occur.
  1.install Pmw,i copy Pmw source code from windows
python/lib/site-pages/Pmw directory
  2.install Pil,copy windows source too
  3.change site.py's encoding to 'u8' in order to support chinese
text.
  4.run my program and the problem occur
  5.change site.py's encoding back to 'ascii' the problem remain
  6.rpm -e ActivePython then delete All Pmw and Pil source code
,reinstall ActivePython ,nothing changed
  i must say i am a newhand in both python and linux,mybe there is
fault in my operations.Maybe i install some packages in a wrong way.
  I think in linux,many people use ActivePython,Pmw,Pil and Tkinter,so
i hope someone may have faced the same problem and can give me some
suggestion.

Best Regard
wangxiaoyu



From postmaster at bthub01.bt.com  Mon Jun  2 04:00:35 2003
From: postmaster at bthub01.bt.com (postmaster at bthub01.bt.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:00:35 +0100 
Subject: Undeliverable: Re: 45443-343556
Message-ID: <B145D0171C7D9D4D93E59E96343EA1A2020417F6@cbibipnt05.hc.bt.com>

Your message

  To:      N.Winton at axion.bt.co.uk
  Subject: Re: 45443-343556
  Sent:    Mon, 2 Jun 2003 03:59:46 +0100

did not reach the following recipient(s):

N.Winton at axion.bt.co.uk on Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:00:26 +0100
    The recipient name is not recognized
	The MTS-ID of the original message is:
c=gb;a=bt;p=bt;l=CBIBIPNT050306020800LH2B786P
    MSEXCH:IMS:EXCHANGE:BTHUB01:CBIBIPNT05 3550 (000B09B6) 550 5.1.1
<N.Winton at axion.bt.co.uk>... User unknown


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From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jun  8 02:37:25 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 08 Jun 2003 08:37:25 +0200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <m37k7xxefu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Ed Avis <ed at membled.com> writes:

> I'm not trying to attack the distinction between expressions and
> statements.  I know better than to do that.  I am just asking, why is
> it that the body of an anonymous function cannot contain statements?

Because nobody can think of a clear, intuitive, and implementable
grammar specification that allows otherwise.

> Elsewhere in this thread I proposed using a simple_stmt as the body of
> a lambda.  Still, if you say there has been years of discussion I am
> not so foolish as to think I've found the answer.

Then your examples don't follow your proposal. A simple_stmt ends with
a NEWLINE, whereas you did not put a newline at the end of the
statement in your examples.

Regards,
Martin



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jun  8 17:01:23 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 23:01:23 +0200
Subject: Compiling on XP home
In-Reply-To: <6e77evc8iq5sb6i686qf8e7ccrsk2eledn@4ax.com>
References: <6e77evc8iq5sb6i686qf8e7ccrsk2eledn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3ee3a407$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Tim Rowe wrote:
> I'm running Python 2.2.3 on XP Home.  I've just noticed that .pyc
> files are not being created when I execute Python scripts.  I'm
> running as administrator in my own directory, so I have write
> permission.  Does anybody know what's happening?

You have to import them instead of executing them directly:

C:\> python script.py

won't create a script.pyc.

C:\> python -c "import script"

will :-)

--Irmen




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Fri Jun 13 02:49:03 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 06:49:03 GMT
Subject: Pseudo-indices -- PEP material?
References: <slrnbehe6t.bib.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <zteGa.283$5Z6.270@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

[Magnus Lie Hetland]
> I've found I kind of like the capability of numarray to use sequences
> as keys to arrays, e.g:

I like it too.
Rather, I like it in numarray and am -1 for having in the Python core.

It represents a different style of thinking that is best
left the numeric packages.

1) The pythonic way is less about reasoning with indicies and more
about applying the conditions or logic that generate an array of
indicies.

Experience with APL and Matlab show code using index arrays
is semi-easy to write, a little bit harder to read for your own code,
and super hard to read in someone else's code.

Look at the code inside meshgrid() or some of Matlab's other array
index manipulators.  A little aspirin is a must when dealing with this code.



> >>> a
> array([1, 2, 3, 4])
> >>> a[[1, 3]]
> array([2, 4])
> >>> a[[0, 3]] = [5, 6]
> >>> a
> array([5, 2, 3, 6])

2) Equivalent functionality is already available with very few keystrokes:

>>> a = [1,2,3,4]
>>> map(a.__getitem__, [1,3])
[2, 4]
>>> map(a.__setitem__, [0, 3], [5, 6])
[None, None]
>>> a
[5, 2, 3, 6]


> Does this seem like nonsense? Does anyone else like it?

No me.

> Is it worth
> consideration as a PEP?
> Maybe one should just use numarray for this
> sort of thing in the first place?

Yes!!!


> (The reason I started thinking about
> this is that I can't get any version of numarray to work with Py3b1 in

Wow, Python 3.0  made it to beta before 2.3 got out.  Go figure ;-)


Raymond Hettinger





From thomas.nuecker at web.de  Fri Jun 27 06:16:10 2003
From: thomas.nuecker at web.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Thomas_N=FCcker?=)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 03:16:10 -0700
Subject: Compiling Python with Tkinter and win32gui
Message-ID: <4b66f6d2.0306270216.2cc9f790@posting.google.com>

Hello!

I want to use Tkinter and win32gui with the python.dll. How do I have
to configure the compilation and Python itself so i can use Tkinter
and win32gui modules?


Thomas N?cker



From missive at frontiernet.net  Thu Jun 19 18:06:37 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:06:37 GMT
Subject: best idiom for wide try/except net?
References: <bcqu5n$26pi$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnbf4d0v.nnu.missive@localhost.my.domain>

> The only workaround I've thought of is this, which looks a bit ugly to 
> me (it seems a shame to have to explicitly catch stuff I don't want):
> 
> try:
>   # code that might have bugs
> except (SystemExit, KeyboardInterrupt):
>   # exceptions I do not want to catch
>    throw
> except:
>    # all other exceptions
>   sys.stderr.write(...)
>   traceback.print_exc(file=sys.stderr)
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 


That seems pretty nice to me,
but I think you are looking for
raise instead of throw.




From robin at alldunn.com  Thu Jun 19 19:54:19 2003
From: robin at alldunn.com (Robin Dunn)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:54:19 -0700
Subject: [ANN] wxPython 2.4.1.2
Message-ID: <3EF24D2B.7050103@alldunn.com>

Announcing
----------

I'm pleased to announce the 2.4.1.2 release of wxPython, now available
for download at http://wxpython.org/download.php or
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=10718&release_id=166530


What is wxPython?
-----------------

wxPython is a GUI toolkit for the Python programming language. It
allows Python programmers to create programs with a robust, highly
functional graphical user interface, simply and easily. It is
implemented as a Python extension module that wraps the popular
wxWindows cross platform GUI library, which is written in C++.

wxPython is a cross-platform toolkit. This means that the same program
will usually run on multiple platforms without modifications.
Currently supported platforms are 32-bit Microsoft Windows, most Linux
or other unix-like systems, and Macintosh OS X.

New with this release is an experimental build of wxPython using GTK+
2.x for the underlying GUI platform and it is also built with UNICODE
support turned on.  The RPMs for this build were made on a Mandrake
9.1 system but should probably work on other distributions with very
up to date libraries.  If not, an SRPM is included that can be used to
rebuild the RPM on your system.  If you experiment with this build
please send feedback to the wxPython-users mail list.  The files are
currently available only on the SourceForge download page, look for
the wxPythonGTK2 files at the bottom:

https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=10718&release_id=166532




Changes in 2.4.1.2
------------------

Added wxScrolledPanel from Will Sadkin

Added SetShape method to top level windows (e.g. wxFrame.)

Changed wxSWIG to not generate Python code using apply, (since it will
be deprecated in the future) wxSWIG will use spam(*args, **kw) syntax
instead.  Also changed the generated __repr__ methods to be a bit more
informative.

Made the version number information more robust and uh, informative.
Also added asserts to check that the major.minor versions of wxPython
and wxWindows match.

Added the new wx "renamer" package that will dynamically import from
the wxPython package and rename wxFooBar --> FooBar.  That means that
people can do imports without "import *" and can use names like
wx.Frame instead of wx.wxFrame.  This is phase 1 of a full transition
to the new namespace.

Updated Scintilla to 1.52.  I also changed it to use wxListCtrl
instead of wxListBox for the AutoComplete window, added the ability to
use custom bitmaps in the margin and in the AutoComplete windows, and
worked out how to do proper clipping of child windows on wxGTK.

Patrick O'Brien's PyCrust package has been renamed to Py and now
includes several new tools.  As part of the change the location of the
pacakge has changed as well, it is now accessible as "from wxPython
import py" (or "from wx import py" using the new namespace.)  There
are still some transition modules in the wxPython.lib.PyCrust package
that will issue a warning and then import what is needed from the new
package.  These will be removed in a future release.

Added __nonzero__ method to wxTreeItemId, wxBitmap, wxImage, wxFont,
and most other classes that have an Ok or IsOK method.  This allows
code like "if obj: ..." to be the same as "if obj.IsOk(): ..."

Toolbars on wxMac can now have controls on them.

Added wxPython.lib.analogclock module based on samples that were
passed back and forth on wxPython-users a while back.

Added masked edit controls (wxPython.lib.maskededit) by Jeff Childers
and Will Sadkin.  Updated wxTimeCtrl to use MaskedEdit.

When the __class__ of a dead object is replaced with _wxPyDeadObject
the __del__ of the original class is now called first.

Added wxTreeListCtrl.  (Looks like a wxTreeCtrl embedded in a
wxListCtrl, but actually is just giving multiple columns to a
wxTreeCtrl.)

Added wxFutureCall, a subclass of wxTimer that makes it easy to delay
a call to any Python callable object.

Added wxPy versions of wxPrintPreview, wxPreviewFrame, and
wxPreviewControlBar so they can be derived from in Python and be able
to override the C++ virtual methods.

Simplified how the wxSizer methods are wrapped, changed the name of
the "option" parameter to "proportion" to match the docs ("option" is
still accepted for compatibility, but this will go away in a future
release,) SetItemMinSize can now take a wxSize (or 2-tuple) parameter,
and Spacers can be specified with a wxSize (or 2-tuple) parameter

Added wxCursorFromBits.



-- 
Robin Dunn
Software Craftsman
http://wxPython.org  Java give you jitters?  Relax with wxPython!






From ejy712 at comcast.net  Sun Jun 15 12:24:08 2003
From: ejy712 at comcast.net (Ed Young)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:24:08 -0400
Subject: Twisted - listenTCP and connectTCP on the same reactor?
References: <pan.2003.06.15.00.01.18.957592@comcast.net> <mailman.1055642485.26565.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.15.16.24.08.598317@comcast.net>

Problem solved, code is working, thanks for your help.
I would post to the mailing list, but it is not searchable
by Google (to the best of my knowledge).  It's likely that
other folks will have the same problems I have.

Twisted is such a treat to use.  I don't know if Python
or Twisted are getting the most satisfied grins.  

Many thanks to both parties of developers (Python and 
Twisted)...

On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:00:17 +1000, Andrew Bennetts wrote:

> [While some Twisted developers do read comp.lang.python, you're usually
> better off trying the twisted-python at twistedmatrix.com mailing list]
> 
---- answer and question cut ----



From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Fri Jun  6 16:33:08 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 14:33:08 -0600
Subject: XMLRPC Authentication
In-Reply-To: <20030606201333.B5A7D338B@www.fastmail.fm>
References: <3EE0B8B8.6070602@optonline.com> <20030606160231.6470A2026F@www.fastmail.fm>
     <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061210520.21215@ns0.tbye.com> <20030606171737.0145427ED0@www.fastmail.fm>
    <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061227040.21250@ns0.tbye.com> <20030606175450.CEB7032900@www.fastmail.fm> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061356590.21537@ns0.tbye.com> <20030606193428.612EC21EC9@www.fastmail.fm> <20030606201333.B5A7D338B@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20030606203309.03EB927CEA@www.fastmail.fm>

I got it to work.  The BasicAuthTransport code I got from a Zope posting
had some variables missing.  Had to add verbose as an option to the
request method, as well as set a self.verbose variable in
BasicAuthTransport.  On top of that, I made some changes to the way
BasicAuthXMLRPCRequestHandler decoded the autorization string.  I'm gonna
make this more robust, but it is working now.

Attached is all of the working code, for anyone who has the same problems
I did.

Thanks everyone for all your help.
-Justin


On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 14:13:33 -0600, "Justin Johnson"
<justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> said:
> I'm getting closer.  Now I'm getting the following error when trying to
> connect via the client.
> 
> [snip]
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\share\python\uhg\uht\tsd\ClearCase\xmlrpc_client.py", line 7,
>   in ?
>     print server.runCmd("dir")
>   File "C:\Python23\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 1021, in __call__
>     return self.__send(self.__name, args)
>   File "C:\Python23\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 1308, in __request
>     verbose=self.__verbose
> TypeError: request() got an unexpected keyword argument 'verbose'
> [/snip]
> 
> I've my code.  Any ideas.
> 
> On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:34:28 -0600, "Justin Johnson"
> <justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> said:
> > Ahhh,  okay....
> > 
> > So I would put code the do_POST to basically read the MD5 hashed
> > userid:password, decrypt it, and verify that it is a valid user id and
> > password?
> > 
> > On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:00:15 -0700 (PDT), dave at pythonapocrypha.com said:
> > > On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Justin Johnson wrote:
> > > 
> > > > How do you specify the login id and password required on the server side?
> > > >  The code I'm using is similar to the following.  I'm obviously missing
> > > > something here... :-(  Thanks for your help.
> > > >
> > > > # Server code
> > > >
> > > > import SimpleXMLRPCServer
> > > > from ccservice import CCService # A class providing methods for remote
> > > > use
> > > >
> > > > server = SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer(("somehost", 8000))
> > > > server.register_instance(CCService())
> > > > server.serve_forever()
> > > 
> > > Sorry for not more of a detailed answer, but subclass
> > > SimpleXMLRPCRequestHandler and override the do_POST method sorta like
> > > this psuedo-code
> > > 
> > > def do_POST(self):
> > >   Look at self.headers['authorization']
> > >   if missing or wrong:
> > >     self.send_response(401)
> > >     self.end_headers()
> > >     return
> > >   # Otherwise call original
> > >   return SimpleXMLRPCRequestHandler.do_POST(self)
> > > 
> > > (where "missing or wrong" = do the inverse of what the client side does
> > > to
> > > create the Authorization header)
> > > 
> > > -Dave
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > 
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From mcherm at mcherm.com  Wed Jun  4 11:04:46 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed,  4 Jun 2003 08:04:46 -0700
Subject: Changing python process name (or argv[0]) 
Message-ID: <1054739086.3ede0a8ec5f95@mcherm.com>

Mike writes:
> I think the functionality is desirable for some 
> (at least on Unix python), and this simple trick hardly warrants an extra 
> module if it is indeed acceptable in the python world.

Mike, you have it exactly backwards. This simple trick hardly
warrents inclusion in core Python when it can be implemented
by an extra module. The fact that it _is_ a simple trick is
a good reason to keep it as a module. The fact that it might
not be portable to all operating systems is another good
reason. Don't be afraid to use modules... that's what they're
for!

-- Michael Chermside





From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Wed Jun 11 15:46:51 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:46:51 GMT
Subject: Need urgent solution......................
References: <20030611181102.5745.84605.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1055355627.11726.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <LGLFa.136364$h42.95083@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Ok, I am sorry I misunderstoon your point initially. The subject header is
annoying, but it reflects the OPs situation, and if any of the Python gurus
feels charitable this day they may read the "urgent" post first.
m.

--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]


"Joe Grossberg" <jgrossberg at matrixgroup.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1055355627.11726.python-list at python.org...
> We know your time is important. So is ours. Please post with a more
> informative title next time (e.g. "How do I determine pixel width of
> text in a Tkinter canvas?", and you'll be more likely to get helpful
> answers.
>
> More info here:
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#bespecific
>
> Good luck,
> Joe
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Joe Grossberg :: Programmer :: jgrossberg at matrixgroup.net
> http://www.matrixmaxx.net/ :: Custom Web Solutions and
> Web-Based Association Management Software.
>
>
>





From kiko at async.com.br  Fri Jun 27 22:57:24 2003
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Reis)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 23:57:24 -0300
Subject: ExtensionClass/Persistent and __cmp__ is tricky
Message-ID: <20030628025724.GA9873@async.com.br>

So I read the docs on BTrees and `Total Ordering' at
http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/guide/node6.html again. One of the key
points here (as Tim pointed out) is that __cmp__ has to be carefully
designed:

    If you want to use class instances as keys, and there's any possibility
    that the structure may be stored in a database, it's crucial that the
    class define a __cmp__() method, and that the method is carefully
    implemented.

I'm fine with this, so I started some verification of the __cmp__ method
on IndexedObject, our Persistent-derived class. The first, basic, test I
did, however, bothers me because it seems to echo something similar to
what Greg Ward suggested back in
http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2000-May/004420.html -- that
cmp() is not completely compatible with ExtensionClass. Here's my
(short) example:

    >>> from ZODB import Persistent
    >>> class Foo(Persistent):
    ...    def __cmp__(self, other):
    ...     print "Hi there"
    ...     return cmp(self, other)
    ... 
    >>> 
    >>> f = Foo()
    >>> f < 1
    Hi there [ repeated 21 times ]
    >>> f > 1
    Hi there [ repeated 21 times ]
    >>> 1 < f
    0
    >>> 1 > f
    1

This goes against what I understand of the cmp() protocol. The PSL docs
say:

   __cmp__(self, other)
       Called by comparison operations if rich comparison (see above) is
       not defined. Should return a negative integer if self < other,
       zero if self == other, a positive integer if self > other. If no
       __cmp__() operation is defined, class instances are compared by
       object identity (``address''). (Note: the restriction that
       exceptions are not propagated by __cmp__() has been removed in
       Python 1.5.)

Am I understanding this correctly? It seems you can't compare
ExtensionClass with basic types; in Python 2.1.3 at least it appears to
me that try_3way_compare doesn't want to call tp_compare on the second
instance because it's not a PyInstance.

PS: The interesting part is that it seems that comparing lists *does*
work:

    >>> [] > f
    Hi there [ repeated 21 times ]
    0

Which means I'm almost safe with using PersistentList, at any rate
(which uses its List comparison). 

PPS: Anybody know why 21 times?

Take care,
--
Christian Reis, Senior Engineer, Async Open Source, Brazil.
http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 261 2331 | NMFL




From xpm4senn001 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jun 25 08:44:50 2003
From: xpm4senn001 at sneakemail.com (John Fitzsimons)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:44:50 +1000
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com> <bct498$mnjrt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <8da5fvsnidpjtblgfj4484spso2t9e6r95@4ax.com> <bcuqp3$nl9um$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <rt97fv80g2dguti1okoevk3kmvo6oh14vt@4ax.com> <bd17hu$niu1d$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <u7lcfv85lvutqg8tspgua4qc0454gsd2ie@4ax.com> <bd8gsc$pt2lr$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <hi5jfvof9sd32b55c8smgibpufhj0akcdo@4ax.com>

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:35:59 -0700, "Cousin Stanley"
<CousinStanley at hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi Cousin Stanley,

>{ 1. Good News | 2. Bad News | 3. Good News } ....

>  1. Good News ....

>     The last version of word_list.py that I up-loaded
>     works as expected with your input file producing
>     an indexed word list with no duplicates ...

< snip >

>      That's 6.56 HOURS and un-acceptable performance !!!!

I agree.  :-)  Very clever of you to have worked out how long it would
take. I hope you didn't wait over 6 hours to find out !!!

>      word_list.py works quickly on smaller files,
>      but as coded, is an absolute dog for indexing
>      larger files ....

Good. I was hoping it wasn't something that I had done wrong.  :-)

>  3. Good News ....

>     Since I  FINALLY  figured out that you're mostly interested
>     in just the URLs and not a general word list,
>     I coded a pre-process script to extract just the URLs
>     from the original input file ....

>         python url_list.py JF_In.txt JF_URLs.txt

Unless I missed something it does lines starting ftp, http, BUT not
lines that start www . Is that correct ? Or did I give you a file with
no lines starting www ? 

< snip >

>Let me know if this output looks closer to what you are after ....

Very very good......and fast. If I can work out what happened to the
www lines, and fix it, then everything will be great. I then hope to
try this exercise using a different method to see if the numbers come
up the same.

Thank you for such excellent programming.  :-)


Regards, John.




From michael at ida.his.se  Tue Jun 10 02:28:32 2003
From: michael at ida.his.se (Michael Andersson)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:28:32 +0200
Subject: Extending Python with C# and vice versa
Message-ID: <3EE57A90.7080402@ida.his.se>

Hi!
I've heard of a project called Python for .NET that, as I understand it, 
can be used to extend Python with C# code. Has anyone tried this?

Best regards,
/Michael




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jun  5 13:02:06 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 10:02:06 -0700
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
References: <mailman.1054800552.20295.python-list@python.org> <3edf4e92$0$24082@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306050902.77397ccc@posting.google.com>

"Rob Hall" <robhall at ii.net> wrote in message news:<3edf4e92$0$24082 at echo-01.iinet.net.au>...
> >> IMHO, wxPython scores worse than both pygtk and pyqt.
> 
> You make it sound that pyqt scores bad...  pyqt rocks!  I spend quite a
> while last year coming to grips with wx, but after a day or two of qt I was
> quite comfortable.  IMHO qt IS the way to go.
> 
> Rob

Yeah, but installing Qt is not obvious at all. Last year I tried a
couple of times ...

... and at the end I decided to use Tkinter !

                              Michele



From khcarlso at bellsouth.net  Thu Jun  5 10:21:02 2003
From: khcarlso at bellsouth.net (Kevin Carlson)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 10:21:02 -0400
Subject: using urllib or httplib to post with ENCTYPE=mulitpart/form-data
In-Reply-To: <bbmlee$kk6$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
References: <mailman.1054758548.9033.python-list@python.org> <87he751jla.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1054782491.12301.python-list@python.org> <bbmlee$kk6$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <3EDF51CE.8030608@bellsouth.net>

Ng Pheng Siong wrote:

>According to Kevin Carlson  <khcarlso at bellsouth.net>:
>
>>I actually only need to send a couple of text inputs to the form, but no 
>>matter what, the host system acts like I input nothing into the form.  I 
>>have tried this:
>>
>
>Maybe the form has some Javascript that validates the data and invokes a
>secret handshake, like sending extra hidden fields or returning a cookie?
>

Thanks for help on this one -- I got the first POST working.  It was a 
problem with formatting the multipart/form-data.  Once I got the proper 
format it worked fine.  Interesting you should bring up cookies, though...

The response from the POST returns a cookie that I need to pass along to 
the host on the subsequent request.  I don't see and methods in httplib 
to deal with cookies directly, nor can I find any in the HTTPResponse.py 
source that allow me to extract the cookie from the response.  I'm sure 
I'm missing something.  Any additional pointers?

Kevin





From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Jun 26 15:57:35 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:57:35 +0200
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
In-Reply-To: <3efb3248.316098305@news.pa.comcast.giganews.com>
References: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com> <bde5fj$ro8to$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de> <3efb3248.316098305@news.pa.comcast.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <3EFB502F.2010008@mxm.dk>

Chuck Spears wrote:
> I have a question with regards to the sprintf style of replacing
> strings.  I have a table in my HTML with a 50% width specifier.  How
> can i get the formatter to ignore it.  For example in the example
> below how can i code the 50% to be ignored?
> 
> keep the "%s 50% %s" % ("a","b")

Double the %

"%s 50%% %s" % ("a","b")


regards Max M




From icarroll at pobox.com  Tue Jun  3 05:54:57 2003
From: icarroll at pobox.com (W Isaac Carroll)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 02:54:57 -0700
Subject: tuple to list to tuple conversion
References: <20030603091833.M95008@ee.iitm.ernet.in>
Message-ID: <3EDC7071.3030800@pobox.com>

Vinoo vasudevan wrote:
 > Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong here?
 >
 > I have a method that needs to call other methods like this:
 > def mymethod(self, methodname, params):
 >     apply(methodname, params)
 >
 > params is already a tuple. I needed to add a few more parameters
 > inside 'mymethod' so I did this:
 > params = tuple((list(params)).append(something))
 > when params is an empty tuple to begin with, the stmt sets it to None
 > instead of (something,)
 > However the following works regardless of whether params is empty:
 > x = list(params)
 > x.append(something)
 > params = tuple(x)

The append() method modifies the list in-place and returns None in
accordance with standard Python procedure.

Instead of changing to a list, just create a new tuple by concatenation:

     def mymethod(self, methodname, params):
         apply(methodname, params+something)

Just make sure that "something" is a tuple and everything will work fine.

TTFN





From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jun 16 10:00:42 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:00:42 +0200
Subject: insert thousands separators
In-Reply-To: <yyy8ys2gm6v.fsf@adams.patriot.net>
References: <3EE9E548.9010701@isst.fhg.de> <yyyvfv9hpj9.fsf@adams.patriot.net>
	<mailman.1055529144.29572.python-list@python.org>
	<bcdu5e$chh$0@216.39.172.122> <yyy8ys2gm6v.fsf@adams.patriot.net>
Message-ID: <3EEDCD8A.6000303@ghaering.de>

Nick Vargish wrote:
> ps. Looking at the library reference, it's not clear if there's an easy
> way to extract the fractional portion of a float without hitting the
> Standard Floating Point Problem:
> 
>>>>v = 2312.3123123
>>>>v1 = int(v)
>>>>v2 = v - v1
>>>>v2
> 
> 0.31231230000003052

If you need that, then a float is probably not the right data type. 
There are several implementations of arbitrary precision numbers out there.

Some more fun with floats:

#v+
 >>> v - v1
0.31231230000003052
 >>> s = str(v)
 >>> s
'2312.3123123'
 >>> s[s.find("."):]
'.3123123'
 >>> float(s[s.find("."):])
0.31231229999999999
#v-

So if you only want to print the fractional value, str() will do fine. 
But str() won't make floats capable of representing arbitrary numbers, 
either ;-)

-- Gerhard




From aldo at nullcube.com  Mon Jun  2 03:19:47 2003
From: aldo at nullcube.com (Aldo Cortesi)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:19:47 +1000
Subject: dictionary issue (and maybe PEP ... depending on the answer)
In-Reply-To: <0wBCa.651$ig1.627675@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
References: <0wBCa.651$ig1.627675@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <20030602071947.GA28853@nullcube.com>

Thus spake dsavitsk (dsavitsk at ecpsoftware.com):

> The issue is, this consistently returns the months in order. I don't see 
> any obvious reason that it does, but I can't get it to fail. So,I am 
> wondering if there is a reason, or is it serendipity.

Pure, blind luck - you are simply seeing an artifact of the
current Python implementation of dictionaries. You'll find
that this behaviour disappears for larger dictionary sizes.
It is also not guaranteed to exist in other versions of
CPython or in alternative Python implementations. 


> Assuming that there is not a good reason, the PEP idea is adding a 
> sorted_keys() method to dictionaries which would just return the keys in 
> the same order they would be in by doing this.
> 
> >>> l = d.keys()
> >>> l.sort()
>
> 
> The advantage is that using dictionary keys in list comprehensions would 
> be easier, but other than that it is not too big a deal.

Surely this doesn't warrant a PEP? You can easily define a
little helper function, if you really find that you use list
comprehensions on dictionaries often enough to make typing
the two lines above cumbersome: 

def sortAndReturn(lst):
    lst.sort()
    return lst

print [_months[i] for i in sortAndReturn(_months.keys())]


Alternatively, you can use any of the various ordered
dictionary implementations that are out there. One commonly
cited one can be found here:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/107747




Cheers,



Aldo



-- 
Aldo Cortesi
aldo at nullcube.com
http://www.nullcube.com




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Jun 22 07:34:49 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:34:49 +0100
Subject: Choosing between two Jython books...
References: <oprq494znqojfyi9@den.news.speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <3EF59459.D7732CE7@hotmail.com>

Marc Rochkind wrote:

> I'm a very experienced programmer who knows both Python and Java, and I
> thought I'd buy just one book on Jython, which sounds like something I'd
> like to use.

Hi Marc,

Are you the Marc Rochkind who wrote "Advanced Unix Programming"? That was our
course book for a "Systems Programming" course, when I was taking my Comp Sci
degree back in the '80s. That was a great book, clear, concise and highly
informative.

> Which should I get: [of two jython books]

I have both books. They were both inexpensive.

>         Jython Essentials (Pedroni & Rappin)

I think that this is the more technical of the two books, since it is written by
two people who regularly work on Jython internals. I found it extremely
effective as a reference book, i.e. it contains all of the details that you need
to design and implement jython/java systems.

>         Jython for Java Programmers (Bill & Bill)

And this one takes more of a tutorial approach, albeit at a reasonably advanced
level: the target audience is java programmers, so a fair degree of java and
general programming knowledge is assumed. 

They both have pretty extensive coverage of jython and how it relates to Java,
but I think that "Essentials" has the edge in terms of completeness of technical
details and in terms of being authoritative.

> I'm mainly interested in completeness and rigor... don't need a tutorial
> approach.

If those were my criteria, I would definitely pick "Jython Essentials".

But the thing that *really* taught me about jython and jython/java integration
was using jython to embed a scripting engine inside one of my java applications.
Nothing like a real world tryout.

Best wishes, and welcome to comp.lang.python.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From drs at ecp.cc  Thu Jun 26 02:02:17 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:02:17 GMT
Subject: socket programming project
Message-ID: <J%vKa.2730$BM.1642219@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

Hi,

I have a programming design question.  I would like to do this in Python,
but I am not even sure about what tools are proper or where to start
reading.

I am trying to make a small network system where several client computers
connect to a server.  each client can send messages to the server which must
alert all of the clients of the information in the messages.  Further, the
server must be able to alert all connected clients about other occasional
information. The total number of messages is low, however. for now, security
is not an issue if that matters.

I know a way to do this in win32 using dcom, but this seems sloppy, and i
need it to run on freebsd and win32 at a minimum, and pocketPC if at all
possible. I also thought about using ZEO coupled with a Queue class, but I
am not sure about clients reacting to events in this case, or about ZODB/ZEO
on pocketPC.

(The specifics of the project are to make a wifi enabled jukebox out of an
old freebsd computer hooked to my stereo which can be controlled by all of
the other computers in the house. I did a previous version of this using
SimpleHTTPServer, but this seems a dead end for forcing the playlist queue
and such onto clients.)

Any suggestions on how to start would be appreciated.

Thanks,

doug





From jkraska at san.rr.com  Wed Jun 11 00:46:50 2003
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 04:46:50 GMT
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <Xns9396F155DC093cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3EE654A5.1F158A91@alcyone.com> <bc680h$fqph3$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <q1ddevcopkunc6jduj2iuqc0qiencov80f@4ax.com>

>To me, the [] are parentheses used as one might use
>parentheses to enclose an annotation in English, and...

Well, how about parentheses then? These appeal to Python's
higher order semantics, where lists of things enclosed in
parentheses are (generally) immutable.

C//




From unendliche at hanmail.net  Wed Jun  4 23:00:54 2003
From: unendliche at hanmail.net (Seo Sanghyeon)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 20:00:54 -0700
Subject: IDLE raw_input() and unicode
Message-ID: <45e6545c.0306041900.7efc3406@posting.google.com>

My setting is IDLE 0.8 on Python 2.2.2, WinXP. In case it's relevant,
here's Korea. (Hangeul is Korean writing.)

IDLE can print Hangeul just fine. (Note: my sitecustomize.py does
sys.setdefaultencoding("utf-8"). In case it's relevant.)

But IDLE fail to get Hangeul input with raw_input(). It baffles
and prints out:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#0>", line 1, in ?
    raw_input()
TypeError: object.readline() returned non-string

After some study, I found that it seems bulitin raw_input() does
sys.stdin.readline() *AND* type-checking. (Whoa... since C code
is involved, there's no traceback and I'm not sure. Should I read
C code on Python CVS? *normal user shudder*)

sys.stdin is replaced with an instance of PyShell.PyShell by IDLE.
And readline() method of PyShell class does something I don't understand
and does:

----
# PyShell.py around line 475

line = self.text.get("iomark", "end-1c")
...
return line
----

PyShell inherits from OutputWindow and it in turn inherits from
EditorWindow and EditorWindow initializes self.text as Tkinter.Text
widget. And I don't know what the hell "self.tk.call(self._w, 'get',
index1, index2)", that is, an implementation of Tkinter.Text.get(),
does at all, but I assume it returns sort of "non-string".

So I opened DOS command line window and started python. And typed:

----
import PyShell
shell = PyShell.PyShell()
shell.begin()
shell.reading = 1
# Typing some Hangeul. In this case, the name of Python itself.
shell.text.get('iomark', 'end-1c')
----

It prints out: u'\ud30c\uc774\uc36c\n'. So some sort of "non-string"
is actually unicode.

So... I suggest the following:

1) Make raw_input() able to return unicode. Why not? (But I suspect
there may be some deep reason.)
2) Or, at least, make PyShell.readline() returns other than "non-string".
I think just changing "return line" to "return str(line)" would do.
(Make a change and try again.) Yes, it does.

I googled with "IDLE raw_input unicode", and to my surprise, just few
posts I found. Some German one posted raw_input() doesn't handle umlauts.
So it seems this is quite general i18n problem.

Should I submit... *normal user shudder* a patch? It's just one-line
change... Or can someone do all unicode-IDLE-users a favor and submit
a patch?

I'm more than happy to hear something like "Yes, we know that, and it's
all fixed on IDLE version >0.8, and with Python 2.3 you will have no
problem."

-- Seo Sanghyeon



From missive at frontiernet.net  Wed Jun 18 18:54:50 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:54:50 GMT
Subject: Postgresql: plpython may be removed
References: <200306181436.21252.scott_list@mischko.com> <mailman.1055973576.10385.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbf1rfd.kmi.missive@localhost.my.domain>

In article <mailman.1055973576.10385.python-list at python.org>, Skip Montanaro:
> 
>     Scott> This thread is going on the Postgresql email list.  It appears
>     Scott> that support for Python as a Postgresql scripting language will
>     Scott> not last unless some knowlegable folks can assist.
> 
> How so?  I use PostgreSQL from Python and have never heard of plpython.  I
> use psycopg which is well-supported, albeit not by the PostgreSQL folks.
> Similarly, mysql-python (aka MySQLdb) is stable and widely used to talk to
> MySQL databases even though it's not supported by the MySQL folks.  I
> suspect that sort of relationship is true of most packages and their Python
> interfaces.
> 


Postgresql allows internal database functions to be written in a variety
of languages (C, python, perl, tcl, possibly others). I believe that is
what they are talking about here.

There is little chance of the python client libraries going away, but I
think the use of python for internal functions is much more complex.




From meisl at Mathematik.Uni-Marburg.de  Thu Jun  5 09:12:51 2003
From: meisl at Mathematik.Uni-Marburg.de (Roman Meisl)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:12:51 +0200
Subject: Python grammer and student projects
In-Reply-To: <1054813689.3edf2df98ca60@mcherm.com>
Message-ID: <3EDF5DF3.23189.55D82B@localhost>

Hello Michael,

Am 5 Jun 2003 um 4:48, schriebst Du (Michael Chermside):
> I am actually rather dubious of your claim that there are problems
> with the online-grammer. 
> [...]
> I wonder if you're looking at a the wrong document (perhaps an outdated
> one?) and there's a different (better) grammer specification someplace
> else. Or perhaps there are interpretation problems. What kinds of issues
> do you think you've found, and in what document?

There are - as far as I've seen - two grammar versions
First one can be accessed by
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/grammar.txt
within the Python Reference Manual
For example this grammar isn't describing the symbols 'test' and 
'testlist'. 
Further, by example following rule is correct but the fomulation is a 
bit sophisticated:
    or_expr ::= xor_expr | or_expr "|" xor_expr
Expressing the same with
    or_expr ::= xor_expr ( "|" xor_expr)*
would be easier to understand
Some rules are a bit redundant and could be written more efficiently 
(e. g. funcname ::= identifier)

The other version can be found within the sourcecode-package. As far as 
I've seen it is correct and formulations are less redundant and 
clearer.

The problem is, that the online-grammar (first one) is found at first 
(by newbies, like me)

> > I'm not learning python but I'm directing a students group which is
> > developing a python-compiler for practice.
> 
> Hey... that's exciting! I think it sounds like a great project.

Yes it is a great project, but only in the sense of meaning lot of work 
;-)

> Can you
> share any details? Who's working on this... what are their goals? 

I'm working to graduate as an scientific assistant at the Philipps-
University of Marburg at the Department of Mathematics and Computer 
Science.

This semester I've to conduct a lecture about compiler-building 
(german: Compilerbau) with some exercise. And this exercise tries to 
develop a hand-crafted Python compiler without using tools like lex and 
so on. My opinion is, that the resulting compiler can't compete by far 
with any other Python compiler, especially that from python.org. It's 
only for teaching the students how to develop a compiler "by hand" and 
how much work it is ;-)

> Are
> you just replacing the compiler (to produce python bytecode), or the
> interpreter as well? (Or do you really mean a Python compiler in the
> sense of python -> machine code?) 

The target isn't completely clear, yet. I think we wouldn't go as far 
to produce machine code, but we will see.

> I wonder if there's
> any chance of leveraging your students to contribute to contribute
> something to core cPython itself. Just idle speculation, but I always
> try to mention these kinds of things.

Well, I can ask them if they're eager. Can you tell something about the 
problems/work there?

> Yeah... one of Python's great strengths is the helpfulness of its
> community. Welcome.

Thank you, I appreciate that

> PS: Feel free to CC python-list with your reply if you think it'd
> be of general interest.

[x] Done. I don't know if it's of general interest, but we will see.

Bye,

   Roman



-- 
PGP-Key available
Kontakt: 
http://www.mathematik.uni-marburg.de/~meisl/kontakt.html





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jun  3 17:43:28 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:43:28 -0400
Subject: Help with coroutine-based state machines?
References: <3ED622CA.4B01E3C1@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054249933.7365.python-list@python.org> <3ED76105.CB8F3ECF@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054317657.5272.python-list@python.org> <3EDC69DF.A46A97D4@hotmail.com> <xLGdnbw6stHmcEGjXTWcoA@comcast.com> <3EDD05FA.CDE86800@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <adScnRMEYMTJikCjXTWcqg@comcast.com>

"Alan Kennedy" <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3EDD05FA.CDE86800 at hotmail.com...

After reading your response to my response to your essay, I think we
can combine ideas and converge on the following essentials, with
implementation details left out:

Traditionally, execution frames form a linear stack.  With generators,
there can also be a 'pool' of detached, suspended, ready-to-go frames
that are not currently on the stack.

The interpreter executes the code attached to the top frame of the
stack.  That code can bury its frame by calling another function,
whose frame gets put on top.  Or it can unbury the frame underneath by
returning (or yielding), so that its frame get detached and deleted
(or not).  But it cannot directly replace itself (or its frame), such
as with a co-routine call.

However, we can similate such co-routine frame switching as follows:
write a set of 'state' generators, giving each knowledge of the others
it needs to know about.  Instead of having them yield data (pass data
through attributes or globals instead ), have them yield the generator
method corresponding to the next state.  Then support this set of
state methods with a servant dispatch method/frame that sits under the
changing top frame and that helps the state methods 'in effect' call
each other by calling the state method yielded by each state on behalf
of that yielding state.

While mechanically the same, this is conceptually different from the
typical generator usage in which the caller decides on the sequence of
calls.  By making the caller a servant, control is effectively passes
to the callees.

Terry J. Reedy





From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Jun 24 15:46:20 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:46:20 +0200
Subject: Help: printing Unicode characters during telnet session
In-Reply-To: <bda6re$uts$1@news1.songnet.fi>
References: <bda6re$uts$1@news1.songnet.fi>
Message-ID: <bda9q6$flt$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Pekka Niiranen wrote:

> Should I create python shell or is there any other way ?

If, by "shell", you mean the Windows terminal window:

This can only display a limited number of characters. This is
not inherently a limitation of python, but of the terminal
window - this system component uses a certain font, and that
font only supports so many characters.

To get support for more characters, you need to do a number of
things:
a) use a console font with more characters, e.g. Lucida Console,
b) use a console code page that has all the characters that you
    want to display.
c) tell the editor on the other end to convert the text file,
    for display, to the code page that your terminal supports

There is nothing Python could do for you to improve this
situation. You might consider using a different terminal
emulation, though.

Regards,
Martin




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jun 10 12:02:15 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 09:02:15 -0700
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <20030609081617512-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306100802.c805a50@posting.google.com>

Kevin Smith <Kevin.Smith at sas.com> wrote in message news:<20030609081617512-0400 at braeburn.themorgue.org>...
> This is the first draft of a PEP describing new syntax for applying 
> function modifiers (e.g. classmethod, staticmethod, etc).  There is 
> currently no implementation of the proposed syntax (I have heard rumors 
> that the 'def foo(self) [...]' syntax has a patch somewhere, but I 
> haven't seen it yet).  I have already received a few comments and will 
> revise the document soon.  The latest version will always be available 
> at http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0318.html.
> 
> 
> Function Modifier Syntax
> ------------------------

I proposed some type ago to extend the notation for classes. For instance

class C(A,B)[Traced,Syncronized]: pass

would mean

class C(A,B): __metaclass__=type("TracedSyncronized",(Traced,Syncronized),{})

For functions instead the interpretation would be

def f(x,y)[traced,syncronized]: pass

meaning (as in the current PEP)

def f(x,y): pass
f=traced(syncronized(f))

It is not perfect, since the interpretation of the syntax would differ
for functions and classes, but who cares?  "practicality beats purity" ;)

Originally I wanted an "is" sugar

class C(A,B) is Traced,Syncronized: 
    pass

def f(x,y) is traced,syncronized: 
    pass

which looks better but people protested that "is" has another
meaning. Another possibility (suggested by Bengt Richter) would
be

class C(A,B) becomes Traced,Syncronized: 
    pass

def f(x,y) becomes traced,syncronized: 
    pass


                       Michele



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jun 29 19:15:47 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 01:15:47 +0200
Subject: To get all property of a class?
In-Reply-To: <yTJLa.273191$g92.6375448@news2.tin.it>
References: <yTJLa.273191$g92.6375448@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3eff7322$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

manuel wrote:
> Exist a sintax like
> 
> import Foo
> for property in Foo
>     print property

Yes, use __dict__, it contains the mapping of all attributes
of an object (module, class, whatever) to their values:

import os
for (name,value) in os.__dict__:
	print name,"=",value


--Irmen




From rudy.schockaert at pandora.be  Mon Jun  2 13:17:03 2003
From: rudy.schockaert at pandora.be (Rudy Schockaert)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 17:17:03 GMT
Subject: Some pythonic advice needed
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054503724.16312.python-list@python.org>
References: <EOmCa.31502$1u5.2321@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>	<2946028.1054494609@dbforums.com>	<hQsCa.32080$1u5.2323@afrodite.telenet-ops.be> <mailman.1054503724.16312.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jELCa.33381$1u5.2309@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>

andrew cooke wrote:
> Rudy Schockaert <rudy.schockaert at pandora.be> writes:
> 
>>I have received lot's of valuable inputs. Thank you all.
> 
> 
> any chance of publishing what you finally produce?  i once did
> something similar when first learning spanish, but lost it long ago
> (it didn't have support for multiple translations (or accents - i used
> to use capitals for accented letters!)) - i think it might be a good
> idea if i used one again (my spanish seems to be stuck at "good enough
> to live here, but still sounding like a stupid gringo...")
> 
> cheers,
> andrew
> 
I already planned to do that to get some feedback from the experts. I'm 
still learning you see.





From gupt_vive at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 14 06:13:48 2003
From: gupt_vive at hotmail.com (vivek kumar)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 15:43:48 +0530
Subject: Hot to get Python executable's path ??
Message-ID: <Law15-F38y3P5snV6pU000529b0@hotmail.com>

>On Saturday 14 June 2003 03:38 am, vivek kumar wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> >   I am writing a CGI app. I was trying to find out a way to change the 
>#!
> > line in the CGI scripts for different platforms using an install script.

<snip>

> > TIA and Kind Regards
> > Vivek Kumar
>
>The shebang only works on unix variant systems.  Windows simply ignores it 
>and
>goes by the filename extension instead.

Hmm.., but on My windows 2k system I am using Apache and if I try to run 
script as CGI script without giving the shebang line it simply gives me

   500 Internal Server Error

with error
[Sat Jun 14 15:38:44 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] C:/Program 
Files/Apache Group/Apache2/htdocs/fireshop/environ.py is not executable; 
ensure interpreted scripts have "#!" first line
[Sat Jun 14 15:38:44 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (9)Bad file 
descriptor: don't know how to spawn child process: C:/Program Files/Apache 
Group/Apache2/htdocs/fireshop/environ.py


Anyway , I recently find out the solution. I tried

   sys.executable

and it works on both windows and linux. So I think I can use it safely to 
substitute the shebang line. Am I right ??

Regards
Vivek Kumar

_________________________________________________________________
They're big & powerful. The macho mean machines! 
http://server1.msn.co.in/features/suv/index.asp  SUVs are here to stay!





From cmkleffner at gmx.de  Thu Jun 26 10:32:59 2003
From: cmkleffner at gmx.de (cmkl)
Date: 26 Jun 2003 07:32:59 -0700
Subject: MSYS / MINGW32 / PYTHON / SWIG
References: <bda6qd$jkj$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3b091a1c.0306260632.1e30096a@posting.google.com>

"orion30" <orion30 at ifrance.com> wrote in message news:<bda6qd$jkj$1 at news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>...
> I would like to know if somebody has successfully uses
> SWIF using MSYS / MINGW32 / PYTHON.
> 
> I tried to do it but apparently, I failed.
> 
> Is there somebody who can help me and give a little example.
> There is a little example in http://sebsauvage.net/python/mingw.html
> but it's not working for me.
> 
> At more,  I would like to used the dll versions of the glibc.
> How to proceed in order to build a module (using swig) which uses a such dll
> ?
> 
> Best regards

I have no idea what the swif library could be, but in principle it is
possible to wrap libraries written in C/C++ with swig to python.
BTW: mingw32 uses Microsofts msvcrt.dll. This is the counterpart of 
the glibc on Linux. Of course the library does not have most of the 
posix functionality. If you use posix functions like fork you have
to use cygwin instead of mingw.

Can you tell what is not working for you with the example above?

Carl



From drs at ecp.cc  Thu Jun 26 18:54:14 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:54:14 GMT
Subject: socket programming project
References: <J%vKa.2730$BM.1642219@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <3efb62a5$0$49109$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <qQKKa.2898$BM.1807046@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Irmen de Jong" <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:3efb62a5$0$49109$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl...

>
> If you don't care about the communication internals, (and it seems very
> likely that you don't), try Pyro : http://pyro.sourceforge.net
>
> Pyro makes it VERY easy to build distributed object systems in Python.
> (a basic client and server take no more than 5 to 10 lines of code,
> of which only two or three are Pyro-specific).
>
> If you know DCOM, you know the basics of distributed object systems,
> and you should feel at home very soon when using Pyro.
> Not forgetting that it is tremendously easier to use than DCOM.. ;-)

This looks really interesting.  In COM, there is the concept of a single use
server where every client shares the same instance. Python does not really
support creating a single use DCOM server, at least not last time I looked
into it. Is this something Pyro can easily do, or will I need to use a db of
some sort to keep track of shared data?

-doug





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jun 24 09:32:07 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:32:07 +0200
Subject: Stroing tkinter screen as PNG file..............
References: <20030624130429.25639.qmail@webmail26.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <bd9kb7$kfi$1@main.gmane.org>

Suresh Kumar wrote:

>     I am using python/tkinter/windows. How to store tkinter canvas
> screen as a PNG file? I have drawn some rectangles in my canvas
> and i want to store it as a PNG file so that i can use it for
> further processing. How can i do it?

here's one way to do it:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/image-sig/2003-May/002292.html

ImageGrab is part of the PIL library:

    http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil

</F>







From johnf at jfcomputer.com  Mon Jun 16 09:50:45 2003
From: johnf at jfcomputer.com (JOHN FABIANI)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 06:50:45 -0700
Subject: [General lang] how to call a parent
In-Reply-To: <20030616021955.GC24545@unpythonic.net>
References: <F%0Ha.261$WW3.30765151@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	 <bci7e2$e3t$1@panix3.panix.com>
	 <uV6Ha.289$Ld5.35571863@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	 <20030616021955.GC24545@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <1055771445.14524.8.camel@linuxsrv.jfcomputer.com>

Thank you for the help.  I think I understand. Now that I have the
required tools I will start a small project.  Thanks again.
John
On Sun, 2003-06-15 at 19:19, Jeff Epler wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 15, 2003 at 11:01:46PM +0000, John Fabiani wrote:
> > I'm just starting to use python and playing with the tools and the language. 
> > After building a few small windows (via BOA) I realized that I did not know
> > how to create a class that allowed reuse in a general way.  I was testing
> > how classes are used.  I was able create properties, call the __init__ of
> > the parent class .etc  But then I realized I did not have a way to call a
> > parent of control - such as a container.  Also I was not aware of "super". 
> > I'm guessing that will help.  Still learning!!!!!!!!!!!!
> > John
> 
> Yeah.  I didn't get in your first message that you were asking about the
> inheritance tree -- I thought you were talking about parents in terms of a
> tree-representation of an HTML document, for instance.
> 
> You must use super() if you expect the inheritance graph to be a DAG instead
> of a tree (i.e., there's a "diamond shape" hiding somewhere).  For
> instance, if you have
>                A
>               / \
>              /   \
>             B     C
>              \   /
>               \ /
>                D
> 	class A(object): pass # super works only for "new-style objects"
> 	class B(A): pass
> 	class C(A): pass
> 	class D(B,C): pass
> then follwing the rule (for cooperative methods) "each subclass method calls
> the method defined on each of its base classes" will get you into trouble:
> D.f calls both B and C, which in turn gives *two* calls to A.f (not the one
> call you'd expect).  Super defines a strange-seeming order where each subclass
> method calls *one* method defined on a base class, but the call may not be
> to an ancestor class of the class making the call via super.  Confused yet?
> 
> Now, if you don't want to accomodate diamond-shape inheritance, then
> there's a simpler way.  Just call the method by referencing the class
> attribute, and explicitly name self as the first argument:
> >>> class A:
> ...     def f(self, arg): print "A.f(%r,%r)" % (self, arg)
> ... 
> >>> class B(A):
> ...	def f(self, arg):
> ...         print "B.f(%r,%r)" % (self, arg)
> ...         A.f(self, "spam") # call parent method
> ...
> >>> o = B()
> >>> o.f(37)
> B.f(<__main__.B instance at 0x81d548c>,37)
> A.f(<__main__.B instance at 0x81d548c>,'spam')
> 
> Wondering about the diamond and super?  Write the code yourself.  The
> cooperative call looks like this:
>         super(X, self).f(arg)
> where X is the name of the class in which you're defining the method.
> Remember, super only works when you make your classes new-style by deriving
> from object.
> 
> Jeff
> 




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jun  8 19:25:04 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 01:25:04 +0200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m37k7xxefu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1he70hnlc.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <m3y90cup7z.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Ed Avis <ed at membled.com> writes:

> Are you sure?  This is an excerpt from
> <http://python.org/doc/current/ref/grammar.txt>:

I see. In Grammar/Grammar, I have

simple_stmt: small_stmt (';' small_stmt)* [';'] NEWLINE

Using grammar.txt instead, your specification is still
underspecified. You mention some detection of ambiguities. How exactly
would that work? For example, what is the meaning of

a = lambda b : return b > 0

Also, what is the meaning of the statements inside the lambda
expression, in particular of assignment and return statements?

E.g. if I have

x = lambda b:c=3

what happens if I invoke x(4)? What if x is

x = lambda c:c=3

What is the meaning of continue inside lambda?

Regards,
Martin



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jun 27 00:35:39 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 04:35:39 GMT
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com> <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com> <bdb22c$psllg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EF933AA.C16ADFE5@alcyone.com> <bdcl1d$v43$0@216.39.172.122> <fef0a228.0306261125.62b83713@posting.google.com> <slrnbfn2eb.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <k_MKa.328486$3n5.92373@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <bdghir$tn0$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:21:20 GMT, "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>Although in actual fact the KSR33 teletype did need a fifth of a second to
>guarantee that the print head would have returned to the left margin from
>column 72 haracters was a "feature". Sometimes you would (all right, *I*
>would) depress the two keys in the wrong order, and the result was that you
>would see a single character printed in the middle of the new line during
>the "flyback" period.
>
Or for programmed output, you'd (ok, *I* would ;-) program a delay to allow
for the flyback to complete after the line feed which IIRC could be done during
flyback, since it didn't print anything. But I think we had flexowriters before
we had KSR33s. At least I was personally introduced to flexowriters first.

What I am trying to remember is how the Friden flexowriter that was connected
to the LGP-30 I once coded for worked re CR/LF. It definitely had a moving carriage
and moved like a typewriter, but ISTR that one key would do the CRLF. But there was
more than one model, and I suspect there was one that had separate CR/LF codes/functions.
Maybe one we used with a PDP-8 later ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk  Mon Jun  2 12:58:15 2003
From: andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk (Andrew Walkingshaw)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 16:58:15 GMT
Subject: Python prob
References: <mailman.1054298446.21505.python-list@python.org> <bb7p4e$ppt$1@saphir.eurocontrol.fr>
Message-ID: <slrnbdn0h7.i3p.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net>

In article <bb7p4e$ppt$1 at saphir.eurocontrol.fr>, BOCQUET Jean-Francois wrote:
> 
> hello,
> you want some help for your house work ? It seems that one of your =
> friend was smarter than you to get help : see the post from "Scott =
> Meyers"


Scott Meyers is a very respected C++ author (who is teaching himself
Python from the looks of things), it appears; this appears to
be coincidence, not conspiracy!

- A



From max at ford-consulting.com  Thu Jun 19 13:36:45 2003
From: max at ford-consulting.com (Max Barry)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:36:45 -0700
Subject: TypeError: Value() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)
Message-ID: <AB31B4D49ECDE74B8549CFBB31E782E431F6C3@EINSTEIN.ford-consulting.local>

I am having problems calling a VB6 let property from a class in python.  I
get a TypeError: Value() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given).  I presume the
self is being passed as the 3rd argument.  Here is an example of the class:

class someclass:
    def foo():
	self.test(somevbobject)

    def test(self, Result):
        	Result.Value(1, 0)


This is the VB property that python calls:
Public Property Let Value(ByVal lngIndex As Long, ByVal sngNew As Single)
    ' Notice: presumed to be zero-based values
    msngValues(lngIndex + 1) = sngNew
End Property

Does anybody know how to resolve this problem?

Thanks in advance,
Max








From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Jun 20 01:14:37 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:14:37 -0700
Subject: testing two lists for equality
References: <3064b51d.0306191140.3d4094fe@posting.google.com> <3EF2169D.3590ECBD@engcorp.com> <BswIa.3239$38.1069@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <eppstein-A3D96D.22143719062003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <BswIa.3239$38.1069 at nwrdny01.gnilink.net>,
 "Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:

> Do you think docs should be changed from:
> 
>             Tuples and lists are compared lexicographically using
>             comparison of corresponding items.
> 
> To:
>             ... compared by sequentially comparing corresponding items.
> 
> Or something like:
> 
>            ...compared sequentially using comparison of corresponding items

The difference is that "lexicographically" has a recognized precise 
mathematical meaning.  Your alternatives don't convey that meaning to me 
unless you describe what you do with the results of the sequential 
comparisons, e.g.

...compared by comparing corresponding items, sequentially until an 
unequal pair is found, and using the comparison value from that pair.  
If all compared pairs are equal, the result is the same as if the 
lengths of the lists were compared.

But that seems a bit cumbersome to me...

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jun  7 23:33:57 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 23:33:57 -0400
Subject: Excuting scripts question
References: <bbtq4o$d718f$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE26F88.C86E88BB@alcyone.com> <bbu0bo$df2cq$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE28A13.65FD29DD@engcorp.com> <bbu7gc$ddp76$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EE2AEA5.8A63C18E@engcorp.com>

Ken wrote:
> 
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>  Do you have a web server running on it?

> I installed IIS. (I am running Windows 2000 Pro)
> I went into Control Panel/Admin Tools/Internet Information Services/Default
> Web Site and go into properties. In the "Home Directory" tab, I went into
> "Configuration". Clicked "Add", put in the path of python.exe executable
> (C:\Python22\python.exe), extension "cgi" and pressed ok. Is this the right
> way to do it? I am planning to run this Win2000 machine as a web server for
> my cgi scripts that used to reside on a Unix machine. The script files and
> HTML files are saved into the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory.

Well, at least you're a step farther than I feared (i.e. not
even having a server running).  Unfortunately, you're basically 
asking a Win2K configuration question, and I can't help you
there except to suggest you simplify the problem so that you
don't involve your old scripts *and* the server *and* CGI and
everything else.  

What's the simplest thing you can get working that demonstrates 
that the server is able to process CGI?

After that it should be a simple matter to modify the settings
to handle Python as well.

-Peter



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Jun 21 16:57:40 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 22:57:40 +0200
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org> <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com> <slrnbf8tsd.qc.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <m3r85nmoch.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnbf9fem.1ej5.missive@localhost.my.domain>
Message-ID: <m3wuffi1x7.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Lee Harr <missive at frontiernet.net> writes:

> How about email?

Right. Or, uncertain: I would not consider a MIME message 7-bit plain
text ASCII. Indeed, I would not consider an RFC 822 message plain text
at all - the body might be plain text, but then, the body of an HTML
file might also be be 'plain', in the sense it does not refer to
multimedia/content...

But your observation is right in principle: to really understand what
the "most common text format in history" is, and to allow "7-bit plain
text ASCII" as a candidate, one would need to specify, in more detail,
what exactly that is.

Regards,
Martin




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jun 19 16:51:04 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 20:51:04 GMT
Subject: use member functions to access data in Python classes?
References: <3064b51d.0306180815.75869d6f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bct7no$fc3$0@216.39.172.122>

On 18 Jun 2003 09:15:15 -0700, beliavsky at aol.com wrote:

>In C++, it is generally recommended to declare the data within a class
>private and to access the data using member functions. Do experienced
>Python programmers usually use member functions to access data within
>classes, or do they access the data directly?
As others have mentioned, probably mostly directly, and not for privacy
purposes. But sometimes it can be handy to make use of keyword args to
set or update a dict-type attribute. E.g.,

    x.d = {'a':1, 'b':'two'}

can be spelled

    x.set_d(a=1, b='two')

if x's class has the method

    def set_d(self, **d):
        self.d = d

Of course a little function

    def mkd(**kw): return kw

will allow you to write

    x.d = mkd(a=1, b='two')

and preserve the option to change d smoothly to a property later,
which might be a better choice sometimes.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jun 17 17:13:39 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 14:13:39 -0700
Subject: feature request: mul
References: <2259b0e2.0306110833.24b998cd@posting.google.com> <tyfk7bkrbbt.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306171313.3648527a@posting.google.com>

Jacek Generowicz <jacek.generowicz at cern.ch> wrote in message news:<tyfk7bkrbbt.fsf at pcepsft001.cern.ch>...
> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:
> 
> > import operator
> > multi_and=lambda it: reduce(operator.mul,it)
> > if multi_and(condition):
> >    dosomething()
> > 
> > but frankly it is too ugly for my taste. Having
> > 'sum' and 'mul' the use cases for 'reduce' would
> > drop, which I think is a good thing.
> 
> You don't like abstraction ?

1. Specific answer for this case:

As I said in the postscript,

"""I like the concept of reduce, but
not the syntax, and that is the reason why 
I *never* use 'reduce' in my programs."""

I find the current syntax little readable. 'reduce' does not seems
very abstrac to me.

2. General answer.

No, I don't like abstraction for the sake of abstraction.
I like abstraction when actually it is useful and help
to explain/unify difficult concepts. I HATE abstraction
when it is intended to complicate simple things or when
you don't need it. On the other hand, excessive simplification 
is also to be avoided:

Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.

                                         A. Einstein



From marcus at infa.abo.fi  Thu Jun 12 05:28:01 2003
From: marcus at infa.abo.fi (Marcus Alanen)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 12:28:01 +0300
Subject: can we have a filecmp.cmp() that accept a different buffer size?
References: <3EE837DC.5080802@nospam.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbeghp6.mm0.marcus@infa.abo.fi>

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:20:39 GMT, Kendear <kendear at nospam.com> wrote:
>filecmp.cmp() uses a BUFSIZE of 8k to compare.
>For files that are 500MB, the hard disk is really
>busy, going back and forth, while my 512MB RAM is
>sitting there, sipping margarita.  Can we have a
>version of filecmp.cmp() (and filecmp's other
>methods) that accepts a BUFSIZE, such as 1MB or more?

There are some issues with this. First, the stat() call of a file
should give the "preferred" value of a buffer size in st_blksize. So
if python follows this value, it _should_ already be a good enough
value for most uses. Second, in practice some operating system kernels
provide read-ahead of files, that is, they sends extra read requests
to the hard drive so that future requests from the application don't
have to wait so long. So using a BUFSIZE might do no good.

Basically, setting the buffer size explicitely is probably a
nice-to-have in the short run, but it belongs to the kernel side,
IMHO.

Regards,
Marcus





From llafba at gmx.net  Thu Jun 12 10:31:47 2003
From: llafba at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:31:47 +0200
Subject: index(x)
References: <3EE884B6.3070105@gmx.net> <bca1up$gjk38$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EE88ED3.9090200@gmx.net>

Hi Thomas,

thanks for your code. It works perfectly for my purposes.
Yes, I did read the tutorial, but your hint to check out the cookbook 
was exactly what I was looking for!

Thank you.
Regards, Tom



Thomas G?ttler wrote:

>Tom wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I compare all items in a list with another value. There are always
>>multiple matches. I need the list index of every match. But if I use
>>index(x) it only returns the first match in that list. There is probably
>>a similar command that does exactly what I want, but I can't find it.
>>    
>>
>
>I would do it like this:
>s="..a....a...a.a"
>indexes=[]
>for i in range(len(s)):
>    char=s[i]
>    if char=="a":
>        indexes.append(i)
>print indexes
>
>  
>
>>Talking about that: is there any good online help or something like
>>that? I have the Python Library Reference, but I find that rather
>>confusing and with very short explanations. I think they set it up the
>>wrong way, because you already have to know the command you are actually
>>looking for?! If  I want to do something, I want to know which command I
>>can use! So, is there any online help or something you can recommend?
>>    
>>
>
>Did you read the tutorial? If you did and you need some more example code
>have a look at the python cookbook.
>
> thomas
>
>
>
>  
>




From exarkun at intarweb.us  Sun Jun 22 19:36:52 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:36:52 -0400
Subject: Calling a function, arguments in a dict ??
In-Reply-To: <wYpJa.8525$Hb.148440@news4.e.nsc.no>
References: <wYpJa.8525$Hb.148440@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <20030622233652.GA12439@meson.dyndns.org>

On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 12:19:24AM +0200, Thomas Weholt wrote:
> If I got a dictionary with a bunch of key/values I want to use as named
> arguments for a function, how do I do that?
> 
> Say we got a function a, takes three parameters; x,y,z. In my dictionary I
> got {'z': 1, 'x': 2, 'y': 3}. How can I create some code that will call it
> like this :
> 
> a(z =1, x=2, y=3)

    d = {'z': 1, 'x': 2, 'z': 3}
    a(**d)

  Jp

-- 
"One World, one Web, one Program." - Microsoft(R) promotional ad
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer." - Adolf Hitler




From ed at membled.com  Sun Jun  8 06:51:50 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 08 Jun 2003 11:51:50 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org> <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055032157.24538.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l1el24hmex.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:

>    swap = lambda L,i,j: L[i], L[j] = L[j], L[i]

As I mentioned elsewhere on this thread, lambda-functions could be
parenthesized where this is necessary.  The proposed change to have
one-line statements instead of expressions inside lambda would not
(AFAIK) make any parse that is currently unambiguous require
parentheses; only some new cases such as your example with commas
would need it.  So

    swap = lambda L,i,j: (L[i], L[j] = L[j], L[i])

>>Elsewhere you don't have to care about the difference, because any
>>expression can be used as an expression_stmt.
> 
>But not the reverse -- statements cannot be used in expressions.
>All of the following are illegal, for example:
>
>    while print x:
>        # ...
>
>    if del x[0]:
>        # ...
>
>    y = 3 + 4*(assert x > 1)

True... but somehow I recognized those as 'obviously unPythonic' and
didn't even try to write any of them.  Whereas for lambda it was a
real surprise that the rules were different from ordinary function
definitions.  I don't know, maybe some other new Python programmers
had a different experience and did have to deliberately unlearn such
constructs.

FWIW, the only one of those three that I miss is the second; it could
be useful to have del x[y] from lists and dictionaries return a value,
because it lets you easily check for unhandled keys:

    dict = {...}
    name = del dict['name']
    age = del dict['age']
    for k in dict.keys():
      logging.warning('unhandled key ' + k)

The idea is that if elsewhere in the program I add a new key but I
forget to update this code to handle it, I'll get a warning.  You can
do this at the moment, of course, but with more lines of code.  Anyway
the syntax would have to be different since del would become a member
function of the dictionary rather than a statement.

>You don't usually need to think about the statement/expression
>distinction, I agree, but *not* because they're interchangeable in
>most contexts -- that's simply false.  It's that the division between
>them is almost perfectly done,

I don't know about perfect - 'print' seems rather an anomaly, and
assignment to list and dictionary elements is beginning to look like a
strange special case - but I agree that most of the time it works
fairly well.  Lambda is the only real area where it starts to produce
'surprising' results, and that only because lambda is synactically
restricted to contain only expressions.

>If there is a problem here, imho it is that lambda makes people want
>to put statements in expressions, thereby bringing to centre stage a
>distinction which is usually unobtrusive.  Anonymity is a red
>herring; so are closures; the important point is that lambdas are
>expressions and defs are statements.

Well a named function has two halves: the 'def f: ...' which is a
statement, and the use of the name 'f' which is an expression.  Lambda
combines both in one place.  Letting it contain one-line statements
seems like the best compromise between the two worlds.  Expressions
only is too counterintuitive IMHO.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From list.adam at twardoch.com  Wed Jun  4 05:52:00 2003
From: list.adam at twardoch.com (Adam Twardoch)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:52:00 +0200
Subject: "select directory" dialog using win32all?
Message-ID: <bbkfgv$aai8a$2@ID-135222.news.dfncis.de>

I need to get the Windows system "select directory" dialog using
win32all/ctypes. I know this is possible with tk (askdirectory) and wx
(wxDirSelector) but I really need to do this without these libraries.

Thank you in advance,
Adam





From Ludger.Humbert at cs.uni-dortmund.de  Fri Jun 13 16:38:22 2003
From: Ludger.Humbert at cs.uni-dortmund.de (Ludger.Humbert)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:38:22 +0200
Subject: Documentation Tool & UML
In-Reply-To: <bcbb1j$ho7$1@pith.uoregon.edu>
References: <a35b36be.0306120912.40bf916f@posting.google.com> <bcbb1j$ho7$1@pith.uoregon.edu>
Message-ID: <3EEA363E.405@cs.uni-dortmund.de>

Yan Weng schrieb:
>> And is there a tool available that can generate python code from an UML ?
> I am curious about this, too. :)
> http://pyut.sourceforge.net/ said they were on the way. But I am not sure
> their current status.
You may look at
DIA for producing UML-Diagrams and saving them in XML-Format
	http://www.lysator.liu.se/~alla/dia

and
DIA2CODE to perform the remaining task
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/dia2code/

just my 2ct based on a strong Euro ;-)

	Ludger
-- 
______________________________________________________________________
      _____
   UniDo  /  Ludger   University of Dortmund, LS Informatik XII
  ___/   /  Humbert   didactics of informatics
  \  \  /             D-44221 Dortmund
   \__\/              Phone: +49 231 755 6141, Fax: +49 231 755 6116
                      Email: ludger.humbert at uni-dortmund.de
______________________________________________________________________




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jun 24 15:52:37 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:52:37 +0200
Subject: printing Unicode characters during telnet session
References: <bda6re$uts$1@news1.songnet.fi>
Message-ID: <bdaa5u$9d5$1@main.gmane.org>

Pekka Niiranen wrote:

> Python's "print" does not seem to work for all characters :(

maybe you should define "does not seem to work", so we don't
have to guess...

> Do not bother to point me to the existing FAQ and tutorials, because
> they do not provide solutions for this problem (searched whole day
> allready).

do you get "ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)"?

If so, Google returns 641 hits for that error message.  The third hit is
a "Python Unicode Tutorial" which shows you how to use the "encode"
method to turn unicode strings into encoded 8-bit strings, suitable for
printing...

</F>







From dwblas at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  2 21:36:22 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (D.W.)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 18:36:22 -0700
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.3999999999 ?
References: <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com> <mailman.1053017062.18647.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <895e4ce2.0306021736.13c657a5@posting.google.com>

Good article.  It is correct when it says that this happens in any
language.  I always thought it was common knowledge among programmers
that "1" could be stored as 0.99999999999999999...  It is also common
knowledge (although I don;t know why or even if it is true) that this
is a result from Intel's initial chip designs i.e. from the way that
they store numbers.  Hence the many commercial and some open-source
math packages that take care of this.

I don't know of any easy way to solve this except to round and convert
to a string if you are going to store the data.  That way, at least,
you will be sure of the number of significant digits and therefore the
reliability.

D.W.

> 
> The Python tutorial has the full story:
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node14.html
> 
> > I just tried in Perl
> >
> >    print eval("123.3") + 0.1;
> >
> > and it gives
> > 123.4
> 
> Perl lies.  So does Python, if you ask it to:
> 
> >>> print eval("123.3") + 0.1
>  123.4
> >>> print float("123.3") + 0.1
> 123.4
> 
> </F>



From oki at gk-a.com  Tue Jun  3 10:08:05 2003
From: oki at gk-a.com (oki mikito)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:08:05 +0900
Subject: passing a shell argument
In-Reply-To: <11629CCB-95C9-11D7-A50F-000393C7968E@gk-a.com>
Message-ID: <CB7A5287-95CC-11D7-A50F-000393C7968E@gk-a.com>

Hi,

sorry for wating the bandwidth; I just found the solution myself:

#!/usr/bin/python
import sys

arg1 = sys.argv[1]
.....
.....
.....



On Tuesday, Jun 3, 2003, at 22:41 Japan, oki mikito wrote:

> Hi
>
> I wonder if there's a simple way to pass a shell argument in a tcsh 
> environment... something like:
>
> [~/bin] moki% process1 ./*.txt
>
> I'm currently using `raw_input`, and at each execution of the python 
> script I type in the file name... & you know how painful it is.
>
> I looked into the os bunch & found nothing. Could someone guide me to 
> the correct path??? Thank you very much in advance!
>
> Yours,
>
> Oki Mikito
>
> ==
> Oki Mikito
> GK Associates, Inc.
> oki at gk-a.com
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>

==
Oki Mikito
GK Associates, Inc.
oki at gk-a.com





From dwblas at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  2 21:15:20 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (D.W.)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 18:15:20 -0700
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.4 if using a variable
References: <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com>
Message-ID: <895e4ce2.0306021715.4cc0ba06@posting.google.com>

Evidently, python has different rules for numbers entered in
interactive mode.  Try this little snippet or just using a float
variable.  It works both as a program and in interactive mode.

x = 123.3
print x
for j in range( 0, 3 ) :
    x += 0.1
    print x

Results:
123.3
123.4
123.5
123.6

Onward through the fog.
D.W.

A Puzzled User <kendear_nospam at nospam.com> wrote in message news:<3EC3BCCD.
3090605 at nospam.com>...
> In Python 2.2.2
> 
>  >>> float("123.4")+0.1
> 123.5
> 
>  >>> float("123.3")+0.1
> 123.39999999999999
> 
>  >>> float("123.1") + 1
> 124.09999999999999
> 
> how come there are these inaccuracies?
> 
> 
> --------------------------------
> P.S.
> I just tried in Perl
> 
>    print eval("123.3") + 0.1;
> 
> and it gives
> 123.4



From leej at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Jun 16 11:41:26 2003
From: leej at dsl.pipex.com (Lee John Moore)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 15:41:26 GMT
Subject: class variable declarations...
References: <bckftl$k0pe7$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de> <3EEDD509.890691F5@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bckof6$kaji2$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de>

One may as well begin with Peter Hansen's letter to comp.lang.python:
[..]
>> 
>> class SpeedTouchComm:
>>         "Interface with the SpeedTouch router"
>>         def __init__(self, connect, uid, pwd, rtuid, rtpwd):
>>                 self.connect = connect
>>                 self.uid = uid
>>                 self.pwd = pwd
>>                 self.rtuid = rtuid
>>                 self.rtpwd = rtpwd
[..]

I've left the example in for reference.  :-)

> Not sure what you mean here.  "Class attributes" would
> normally mean attributes that are shared by all instances of a
> class, as if you were to do "SpeedTouchComm.rtuid = rtuid" in
> the above, instead of using "self" which refers to an
> *instance*, not the class.

I know.  I'm referring to connect, uid, pwd, etc. as attributes
of the SpeedTouchComm class.  I referred to them as variables in
a previous post (simply because I would refer to them as
declared variables in a similar OP or C++ class), but I was told
I should be calling them attributes.  So that's where that came
from. :-)

> Also, what do you mean by "against the law"?  

I'm trying and failing at being humorous. ;-) What didn't 'feel'
like good code is compounded by my difficulty in coming to terms
with a language that doesn't require me to declare everything.
The above example just doesn't feel very clean (to me), but then
you consider it good coding style so I'm clearly just having
difficulty adapting.  ;-)

> to be exactly how *all* Python code works, where you pass
> values in to the __init__ method and it dutifully assigns them
> to various names in self.  I don't think you're being clear,
> sorry.
> 
> Maybe the short answer will do: there's nothing wrong with the
> above.  It even exhibits good coding style! :-)

Phew.  You're clearer and more concise than I'll ever be.  Thank
ye kindly for saying that.  Did I mention that I love Python?
And I've only been studying it on and off for ten days.  Even my
cron jobs have been ported just for the hell of it.  ;-)
-- 
"However far you may travel in this world, you
will still occupy the same volume of space."
                - Traditional Ur-Bororo saying



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun  5 14:01:02 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:01:02 -0400
Subject: All the failed messages from python.org...
References: <mailman.1054827988.4120.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EDF855E.6357A467@engcorp.com>

Tamir Halperin wrote:
> 
> I'm getting quite a few messages each day with message headers 
> very similar to the following ones. I'm only providing two examples 

I believe this started coincident with the sudden spread of a new
email virus.  Presumably the problem will dry up shortly.  Until
then, I'm just going to keep quietly hitting "k" (kill thread) and
carry on reading the real stuff.  If the problem persists for longer
(I'm pretty sure it has been only a few days, not like a month or
anything), then I would get more concerned.

-peter



From kmanley at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 23 11:11:08 2003
From: kmanley at yahoo.com (kevin)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 08:11:08 -0700
Subject: minidom toxml() not emitting attribute namespace qualifier
Message-ID: <a82bfc04.0306230711.227bf43d@posting.google.com>

Using Python 2.2.3, with this example code:

import xml.dom.minidom
XML = """\
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<elem xmlns:myns="mynamespaceuri" myns:att="value"/>
"""
dom = xml.dom.minidom.parseString( XML )
print dom.toxml()

The output is missing the "myns" namespace qualifier on the "att"
attribute. Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks, Kevin



From Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au  Mon Jun 30 00:51:18 2003
From: Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek))
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:51:18 +0800
Subject: console mp3->wav decoder for $indows or GUI one which supports console
Message-ID: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B032AB6@mexper1>

Hi Egor Bolonev,

What is $indows?

Sw.




From norproaj at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 16 09:54:02 2003
From: norproaj at yahoo.com (Dianne Combs)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 06:54:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Media/The Northeast Progressive Advocate-Journal
Message-ID: <20030616135402.1136.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com>

Here it is ... http://www.sfbaygazette.co-inc.com/ ...
where some flowers and send the data ... the Tech Guy
...Progressive movement....See our sister paper....The
Northeast Progressive Advocate Journal..

The movement is able to reach the East coast to the
West coast.....Lets work together for a future for our
children.....Thank you for your time....Dianne
Combs/Editor and Feature Editor

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




From kendear at nospam.com  Tue Jun  3 05:48:52 2003
From: kendear at nospam.com (Kendear)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:48:52 GMT
Subject: easily immobilize PythonWin
Message-ID: <3EDC6F0F.2010409@nospam.com>

How come the following code can so
easily immobilize PythonWin?  (won't for IDLE)
You can't go in the exec window and press CTRL-C

Also, the last printed statement is
always not shown.

--

from time import sleep

while 1:
     # do something
     print
     print "doing something"

     print "I am sleeping..."
     sleep(3)
     print "I just woke up"





From grante at visi.com  Fri Jun 20 11:43:05 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 15:43:05 GMT
Subject: Python for Industrial Control
References: <53a964f4.0306200718.f342995@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3ef32b89$0$1381$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <53a964f4.0306200718.f342995 at posting.google.com>, raymond wrote:

> I would like to hear from anyone who does use USB from Linux to
> control any sort of industrial device. What were your experiences in
> getting it to work?.

I've done a fair bit of "USB stuff" under linux, but none of my
apps know it's "USB stuff": Linux hides the fact that USB is
invovled. The devices all look like normal tty or block devices
(I'm using serial ports and mass storage devices).  If you're
using some other sort of USB device, I would expect that all
you have to do is talk to the device driver using normal system
calls: open, close, read, write, ioct....

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My face is new, my
                                  at               license is expired, and I'm
                               visi.com            under a doctor's care!!!!



From spro1 at uic.edu  Sun Jun  1 19:38:42 2003
From: spro1 at uic.edu (Sam Pro)
Date: 1 Jun 2003 16:38:42 -0700
Subject: Need help with a simple server
Message-ID: <fb97d86e.0306011538.2f8a7a0a@posting.google.com>

I am trying to write my first simple server and would like some ideas
on improving its stability and security.  I want to write something
that is as reliable and secure as possible and need to know what I
need to look out for.  After the code is complete I plan on writing a
client and piping it through something like Stunnel (SSL).  It would
then be used for the exchange of classified data.  My biggest consern
at this point is that if I run nmap through the port that the server
is running I get:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "server.py", line 28, in ?
     input = conn.recv(1024)
socket.error: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')

I can't have the server crashing at something so trivial.  It seems
that the buffer isn't big enough to handle nmaps probe???  What should
I do?  What other input could cause a crash like that?  As of now  I
am just learning Python so please forgive and point out any idiotic
mistakes or retarded code.

To login to my server telnet to it (port 55000) and issue "USER sam"
and then "sam" when prompted for the password.  After that you can
issue "HELP" to get a list of commands.

Thanks,

Sam

----------START CODE-----------

from socket import *
HOST = 'localhost'        # Symbolic name meaning the local host
PORT = 55000              # Arbitrary non-privileged server
WELCOMEMESSAGE = 'Greetings from SamServer V0.1\n'
HELPMESSAGE = '''HELO - Display welcome message
HELP - Display this command listing
ECHO - Echo string (eg ECHO Hello world)
QUIT - Exit session
KILL - Terminate server
'''
serverUp = 1
prompt = '->'
s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
s.bind((HOST, PORT))
s.listen(1)
while serverUp == 1:
  userAuth = 0
  print 'Waiting for connection...'
  conn, addr = s.accept()
  print '+++Connected by', addr, '+++'
  while 1:                       # Login access
      cmdstr = '<NULL>'
      command = 'NULL'
      conn.send(prompt)
      input = conn.recv(1024)
      command = input[0:4]
      if len(input[4:]) > 2: cmdstr = input[5:len(input[4:0])-2]
      if command == 'USER':
        if cmdstr == 'sam':
          conn.send('PASS: ')
          input = conn.recv(1024)
	  if input[:-2] == 'sam':
            userAuth = 1
            print 'Login success by:', cmdstr
	    break
          else:
	    print '***User', cmdstr, 'provided wrong password!', ' Tried:',
input[:-2]
	    break
	else:
	  print '***User:', cmdstr, 'not found!'
          break
      else:
        print '***ISSUED COMMAND OTHER THEN \"USER\"!'
	break

  while userAuth == 1:                       # Command loop
      cmdstr = '<NULL>'
      command = 'NULL'
      conn.send(prompt)
      input = conn.recv(1024)
      command = input[0:4]
      if len(input[4:]) > 2: cmdstr = input[5:len(input[4:0])-2]
      if command == 'HELO': conn.send(WELCOMEMESSAGE)
      if command == 'HELP': conn.send(HELPMESSAGE)
      if command == 'QUIT': break
      if command == 'ECHO':
           conn.send(cmdstr)
           conn.send('\n')
      if command == 'KILL':
           serverUp = 0
           break

      print command, ' issued @ ', 'TIME', ' with ', cmdstr
  conn.close()
  print '---Connection closed to', addr, '---'



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jun 17 20:35:24 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 20:35:24 -0400
Subject: Getting Instance of calling class
References: <bcmfbb$kih2v$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.1055866685.25954.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcoc4c$dde$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1055866685.25954.python-list at python.org>,
Steven Taschuk  <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:
>Quoth Thomas G?ttler:
>>
>> I have a function called _() which prints 
>> strings according to the language of the user.
>> 
>> I don't want to give this method the object which
>> holds the language information every time I call it.
>> 
>> How can I access the calling object?
>
>I'm not sure what you mean by "the calling object".  sys._getframe
>provides frames from further up the call stack, but I'm not sure
>how this relates to what you want to do.
>
>It sounds a little like you want a dynamically scoped environment
>containing (possibly among other things) localization information
>for the current user.  I suppose you could implement such a thing
>by trolling through stack frames, but this seems a bit hackish.
>
>An alternative approach would be to pass _ into each function
>which needs to produce output.  _ could be a closure,
>    def makelocalizer(lang):
>        def _(s):
>            # return s in language lang
>        return _
>for example.  This avoids passing the language to _, but adds
>passing _ around.  Does this help at all?

Close.  _() should be an attribute of the user object.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From lists at andreas-jung.com  Tue Jun 24 06:08:27 2003
From: lists at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:08:27 +0200
Subject: d.keys() and d.values()
In-Reply-To: <20030624100333.GA2595@nl.linux.org>
References: <20030624100333.GA2595@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <2147483647.1056456507@[192.168.0.102]>

I don't think it is guaranteed but usually it works. Why don't you use 
d.items()???

-aj

--On Dienstag, 24. Juni 2003 12:03 Uhr +0200 Gerrit Holl 
<gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> is it guaranteed that dict(zip(d.keys(), d.values())) == d?
> In words, do .keys() and .values() always have the same order? Is
> it safe to rely on this?
>
> yours,
> Gerrit.
>
> --
> 279. If any one by a male or female slave, and a third party claim it,
> the seller is liable for the claim.
>         -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
> --
> Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
> 	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
> Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
> 	http://www.sp.nl/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list








From stardif10 at hotmail.com  Thu Jun  5 04:30:11 2003
From: stardif10 at hotmail.com (Sam)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 18:30:11 +1000
Subject: Screenshots
Message-ID: <3EDEFF92.654485D1@hotmail.com>

Hello all,

I am looking for a way to take screenshots of the desktop. The files
don't need to be opened or viewed, just saved with a filename the user
gives. I'm developing this in a Windows environment. If you could give
me any links or hints about this I would be most appreciative.

Thanks for any help,
Sam.




From wweexxsseessssaa at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun 15 21:08:56 2003
From: wweexxsseessssaa at telusplanet.net (John Hall)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:08:56 GMT
Subject: Python articles
References: <mailman.1055704587.15481.python-list@python.org> <nrkpevsm7psg011fvqs0qjh6uj2jjbmjph@4ax.com> <mailman.1055714547.31030.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <v46qevkl6muipcotqmd08aqr5gks9c035l@4ax.com>

On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:58:48 -0300, Gustavo Niemeyer
<niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote:

>> >[1] https://moin.conectiva.com.br/GustavoNiemeyer
>> 
>> Your website is about 2 meters wide, but my monitor only about 300mm,
>> so reading it is rather inconvenient.
>> (IE V6 on Windows 2000 Pro)
>
>Thanks for notifying me about this. I'll try to fix it,
>once I have access to such beast. :-)
>

BTW I noticed this on the first page only, Gustavo.

-- 
John W Hall <wweexxsseessssaa at telusplanet.net>
Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
"Helping People Prosper in the Information Age"



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jun 19 17:32:19 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 14:32:19 -0700
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com> <mailman.1055919632.16586.python-list@python.org> <rfVHa.105923$pR3.2320136@news1.tin.it> <yfs65n39z72.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <just-0D60BB.18081218062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <yfsof0v880w.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <2259b0e2.0306190831.63d42265@posting.google.com> <yfswufi6j86.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306191332.664300c0@posting.google.com>

Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<yfswufi6j86.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk>...
> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:
> 
> Well, your timings are not all that meaningful because your code does nothing
> and you only instance creation and not item access (which obviously also needs
> to be overridden with python code). 

This was on purpose, I wanted to measure the slowdown due to "pure" 
subclassing, i.e. without doing anything to __getattr__ and __setattr__.

> Anywhere, here is a real DefaultDict class
> and some ad hoc timings, which show *10* fold slowdown for creation and 4 fold
> for item access (the copy.copy call seems harmless performance-wise).
> 
> class DefaultDict(dict):
>     r"""Dictionary with a default value for unknown keys."""
>     def __init__(self, default, noCopies=False):
>         self.default = default
>         if noCopies:
>             self.noCopies = True
>         else:
>             self.noCopies = False
>     def __getitem__(self, key):
>         r"""If `self.noCopies` is `False` (default), a **copy** of
>            `self.default` is returned by default.
>         """              
>         if key in self: return self.get(key)
>         if self.noCopies: return self.setdefault(key, self.default)
>         else:             return self.setdefault(key, copy.copy(self.default))
> 
> timings for python2.2
> 
> In [58]: timeCall(nTimes, 10000, dict)
> Out[58]: 0.018522977828979492
> 
> In [59]: timeCall(nTimes, 10000, DefaultDict, 1)
> Out[59]: 0.11231005191802979
> 
> In [47]: timeCall(nTimes, 10000, {'foo':0}.__getitem__, 'foo')
> Out[47]: 0.012811064720153809
> 
> In [48]: timeCall(nTimes, 10000, DefaultDict(1).__getitem__, 'foo')
> Out[48]: 0.045480012893676758
> 
> In [65]: timeCall(nTimes, 10000, DefaultDict(1,0).__getitem__, 'foo')
> Out[65]: 0.04657900333404541
> 
> 
> What are your results for instance creation with this class? Maybe 2.3 is
> noticeably faster?
> 
> 
> 'as

I should perform a series of tests; anyway, some simple experiment 
with attribute access gives me a slowdown of ~14 times. Quite a lot.
However, my point was that you can bypass the Python 2.3 change in the 
dictionary constructor signature by overriding __new__ and *not* changing
__getattr__. In this way, you don't have a performance problem.
Of course, if you override __getattr__, there is an issue, but the
issue would be the same with Python 2.2. 
I am curious to test the difference between Python 2.2 and 2.3; 
I will look at the instance creation time too, but this is less
important than the access time, since typically I create a dictionary 
only once.


                                 Michele



From mal at lemburg.com  Tue Jun  3 03:18:06 2003
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:18:06 +0200
Subject: Oracle 9i Lite and ODBC
In-Reply-To: <3edb17ba@cpns1.saic.com>
References: <3edb17ba@cpns1.saic.com>
Message-ID: <3EDC4BAE.9020809@lemburg.com>

BDM wrote:
> Has anyone been successful in getting python to connect to an Oracle 9i Lite
> database via either the ODBC or mxODBC modules?  I'm seeing a situation
> where when attempting to make a connection, python goes into a continual run
> state and never returns.

Which platform is this and which ODBC drivers are you using ?

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Software directly from the Source  (#1, Jun 03 2003)
 >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ...         http://www.egenix.com/
 >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
EuroPython 2003, Charleroi, Belgium:                        21 days left





From heikowu at ceosg.de  Mon Jun  2 15:04:39 2003
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: 02 Jun 2003 21:04:39 +0200
Subject: ANN: yawPyCrypto 0.0alpha4
Message-ID: <1054580679.26953.9.camel@d168.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de>

yawPyCrypto (yet another wrapper for PyCrypto) aims to be a more full-featured 
PyCrypto wrapper than e.g. ezPyCrypto is. It allows you to use all standard 
functions ezPyCrypto offers, but with the difference that access to parts of the 
API is factored out into distinct classes. 
 
This enables features like multiple recipient specification of encrypted packets, 
ascii armoring using a custom armoring routine, and several other goodies which 
the interface of ezPyCrypto hides/doesn't allow. Another goodie is that all 
conversions string to tuple and reverse, which PyCrypto requires quite a few, are 
handled using a custom serializer, which is simple enough that there shouldn't be 
any security holes as when using Pickle (which ezPyCrypto uses for most of these 
operations).

The current version of yawPyCrypto is the first real release. If the functionality
that you find in the package suits you, I would ask you to give it a try and send
me any bug reports/difficulties you experience while using it, so that I can
work on stability (which has been left behind for security and functionality so
far).

More info, especially concerning the encoded stream layout, and additional
specifications, can be found on the website.
 
yawPyCrypto 0.0alpha4
 
URL: http://ph0enix.homelinux.org/~heiko
Author: Heiko Wundram <heikowu at ceosg.de> 
License: LGPL - Lesser General Public License 
Dependencies: 
- Python 2.2.2 (or later, it should be easy to make it available for Python versions 
2.1 onwards, but I just don't have the time, and I use 2.2.2 here). 
- PyCrypto 1.9a6 (or later, which AFAICT has changed the interface to stream 
ciphers quite a bit, so I won't do any backports). 
 
Demo code is contained in the file itself, as functions _main*(). 
 
--  
   
    Heiko Wundram 
    Universit?t 18 - Zimmer 2206 
    66123 Saarbr?cken - Germany 





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 23 11:33:15 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:33:15 +0100
Subject: minidom toxml() not emitting attribute namespace qualifier
References: <a82bfc04.0306230711.227bf43d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF71DBB.321885B4@hotmail.com>

kevin wrote:

> Using Python 2.2.3, with this example code:

[Code elided]

> The output is missing the "myns" namespace qualifier on the "att"
> attribute. Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

That's a bug in minidom.

I reported it back in November 2002, but I wasn't precise enough about version
numbers, so it went unaddressed.

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=106473&aid=637355&group_id=6473

I will update that bug report now that I can see for sure that the bug is still
present in 2.2.3.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From johngale at canada.com  Fri Jun  6 12:32:21 2003
From: johngale at canada.com (John Gale)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 16:32:21 GMT
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com> <bbl9ao$mnr$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> <slrnbdvjtq.lp.philh@cabalamat.uklinux.net> <slrnbe01ur.cai.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <pm3Ea.163913$Vi5.4645344@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>

Grant Edwards <grante at visi.com> wrote in
news:slrnbe01ur.cai.grante at localhost.localdomain: 

> In article <slrnbdvjtq.lp.philh at cabalamat.uklinux.net>, phil hunt
> wrote: 
> 
>> A hammer is the best tool by far, we should use it for everything, 
>> and throw away all our screwdrivers.
> 
> Ah, but the effects of a hammer when combined with a screwdriver far
> surpasses the sum of the individual effects.  Just remember never to
> hammer a screwdriver into a CRT.
> 

oops



From ajc1961 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 11 15:06:53 2003
From: ajc1961 at yahoo.com (anthony)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 12:06:53 -0700
Subject: Jython anyone?
Message-ID: <f0a79190.0306111106.4cae235@posting.google.com>

Does anyone have strong feelings one way or another regarding Jython? 
I just started playing around with it, but the limited online
discussions and the sort have me wondering if it's worthwhile.  Any
thoughts?

Anthony



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jun 27 12:49:38 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:49:38 +0200
Subject: Possible project - Python mail proxy to do greylisting, etc.
References: <bdhqhe$3bh$1@main.gmane.org> <c9sofvk2gk49egj6g7i12n2ne1vslm071e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bdhsig$fpc$1@main.gmane.org>

Richie Hindle wrote:
> <flamebait level='outrageous'>async and Twisted are basically
> the same thing</flamebait>.

yeah, but one of them comes with more hype.

</F>







From dave at boost-consulting.com  Mon Jun 16 11:59:47 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:59:47 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com>
 <1055736914.49032@yasure>
Message-ID: <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> writes:

> Quoth danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop):
> | beliavsky at aol.com wrote in message news:<3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0 at posting.google.com>...
> ...
> |> Thus, if I define a function correl(x,y) to compute the correlation of
> |> two vectors, which makes sense to me only if x and y are 1-D arrays of
> |> real numbers,
> |
> | But what kind of real numbers?  IEEE double-precision?  Or might you
> | someday need a correl function that works with ints (e.g., to compute
> | Spearman's correlation coefficient), or arbitrary-precision floats, or
> | BCD numbers, or rational numbers, or dimensioned measurements?
> |
> | As long as your number classes have +, -, *, /, and __float__ (so
> | math.sqrt works) defined correctly, you don't have to rewrite your
> | correl code to support them.  THAT is the beauty of dynamic typing.
>
> Or the beauty of static typing.  In a rigorously statically typed
> language like Haskell, you'd write your function more or less the
> same as you would in Python, but the compiler would infer from the
> use of +, -, etc. that its parameters are of type Num, and you would
> be expected to apply the function to instances of Num - any numeric
> type.  Anything else is obviously an error, and your program won't
> compile until it makes sense in that respect.
>
> One would think from reading this thread that this would be good
> for safety but hard to program for, but it's actually the opposite.
> I'm told that type checking is practically irrelevant to safety
> critical standards, because the testing needed to meet standards
> like that makes type correctness redundant.  But the compiler cleans
> up lots of simple errors when you're writing for more casual purposes,
> and that saves time and possibly embarrassment.

I find that static typing makes a big difference for two things:

  1. Readability.  It really helps to have names introduced with a
     type or a type constraint which expresses what kind of thing they
     are.  This is especially true when I am coming back to code after
     a long time or reading someone else's work.  Attaching that
     information to the name directly is odious, though, and leads to
     abominations like hungarian notation.

  2. Refactoring.  Having a compiler which does some static checking
     allows me to make changes and use the compiler as a kind of
     "anchor" to pivot against.  It's easy to infer that certain
     changes will cause compiler errors in all the places where some
     corresponding change needs to be made.  When I do the same thing
     with Python I have to crawl through all the code to find the
     changes, and a really complete set of tests often take long
     enough to run that using the tests as a pivot point is
     impractical.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From rmunn at pobox.com  Mon Jun  2 12:16:05 2003
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:16:05 GMT
Subject: (no subject)
References: <mailman.1054286872.13140.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbdmu2j.h7c.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>

Vijay Anand R. <Vijayanandr at elind.com> wrote:
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

[snip 300+ lines of ugly HTML for a six-line question]

Ewwwww. *PLEASE* turn off HTML in your E-mail or Usenet client software.
I didn't even bother trying to read your post, since it had gotten so
badly mangled; I'm sure others had the same reaction. Plain text is by
far the best way to ask questions on this newsgroup. If you need help
switching your mail/news client to plain text, this site:

    http://www.expita.com/nomime.html

has tips on how to do that in just about any program; click on yours
from the list.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838



From sebastien.hugues at swissinfo.org  Tue Jun 17 05:29:04 2003
From: sebastien.hugues at swissinfo.org (Sebastien Hugues)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:29:04 +0200
Subject: Python 2.2.2 win32 build
Message-ID: <3EEEDF60.9090005@swissinfo.org>

Hi,

I built Python 2.2.2 dll and exe under win32 using Visual Studio and now
i wonder how i could make a distribution from my build. The official 
distribution
uses Wise, but i didn't see and config file for Wise in the package...

Any ideas ?

Thanks in advance
Regards

Sebastien






From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sat Jun 21 10:54:33 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:54:33 -0600
Subject: unittest and automatically firing off tests
In-Reply-To: <e9o7fvo04c3ocnp352vqbmmhrku30i61h4@4ax.com>; from tomas@fancy.org on Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 09:57:37PM -0700
References: <e9o7fvo04c3ocnp352vqbmmhrku30i61h4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030621085433.A370@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Tom Plunket:
  [...]
> 1) Why in the name of all that is holy does unittest.main() throw
>    regardless of tests passing?

unittest.main is not intended for use other than
    if __name__ == '__main__':
        unittest.main()
and in this use, raising SystemExit is fine.

> 2) Why can't I readily pass a list of tests to unittest.main()? 
>    (I mean, besides the fact that it's not implemented; was this
>    a concious ommision?)

unittest.main is just a convenience function for the most common
case; if you want fancier things, you'll have to write them
yourself.  The module does have facilities to make this easy:

    def suite(dirname):
        """Create a TestSuite for the test files in the given directory."""
        suite = unittest.TestSuite()
        for filename in glob.glob(os.path.join(dirname, 'test_*.py')):
            modname = os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(filename))[0]
            modfile = file(filename)
            try:
                mod = imp.load_module(modname, modfile, filename,
                                      ('.py', 'r', imp.PY_SOURCE))
            finally:
                modfile.close()
            modsuite = unittest.defaultTestLoader.loadTestsFromModule(mod)
            suite.addTest(modsuite)
        return suite

    if __name__ == '__main__':
        runner = unittest.TextTestRunner()
        result = runner.run(suite('.'))
        if result.wasSuccessful():
            sys.exit(0)
        else:
            sys.exit(1)

(Untested.)

> 3) I feel like I should automatically batch up tests and fire
>    them off to unittest.run() or something similar.  Is this as
>    straight-forward and easy, and could I batch them all into one
>    mega-suite?  Are there any reasons why I wouldn't want to do
>    that?

Putting all your tests in a suite and running that suite is
entirely proper.  See above.

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "[W]e must be very careful when we give advice
staschuk at telusplanet.net    to younger people: sometimes they follow it!"
                             -- "The Humble Programmer", Edsger Dijkstra




From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Fri Jun  6 02:29:15 2003
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 23:29:15 -0700
Subject: Postfix/Prefix Operators (++,--)
In-Reply-To: <1054878539.22405.4.camel@mylinuxsite.com>
References: <1054878539.22405.4.camel@mylinuxsite.com>
Message-ID: <1054880955.542.31.camel@sayge.arc.nasa.gov>

On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 22:49, hostmaster wrote:

> Python doesn't seems to support postfix/prefix operators (e.g. i++,
> --i).  Why?

Because it doesn't need them, and they cause a lot of problems in C and
C++.  Those languages need them because of the way their looping
constructs work.  One has to do lots of pointer arithmetic or indexing
in C/C++, where the postfix and prefix operators work well.  But they
can easily be used to make non-portable, undefined behavior happen in
the code.

Python has 'for' loops that automatically iterate over sequences, and so
doesn't really need the prefix and postfix operators.  It avoids their
complexity entirely.  They are rarely missed by those who have adjusted
to Python.

When you need to increment a variable, you can do this:

a += 1


When you need to iterate over a sequence, use a 'for' loop:

seq = ["a", "b", "c"]
for char in seq:
  print char

No incrementing necessary.

-- 

Chad Netzer
(any opinion expressed is my own and not NASA's or my employer's)





From mchermside at ingdirect.com  Thu Jun 19 13:06:40 2003
From: mchermside at ingdirect.com (Chermside, Michael)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:06:40 -0400
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
Message-ID: <7F171EB5E155544CAC4035F0182093F0018329DF@INGDEXCHSANC1.ingdirect.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> 
>     >> In 2.3, you can express this as dict(foo=1, bar='sean') without a
>     >> need to define a function for the purpose.
> 
>     Alexander> Yuck! This seems like a really bad idea to me. This
>     Alexander> effectively makes it impossible to specify any options
>     (such Alexander> as initial size, default value etc.)
> 
> I don't see that the behavior of dict() affects your ability to define the
> behavior of a subclass.

Alex Martelli replies:
> To play devil's advocate -- it does so by Liskov substitution principle
> (if all keywords must be passed untouched to built-in dict to emulate
> its behavior, you can't steal some of them to control your subclass's,
> within the constraint of being able to drop your subclass in lieu of
> dict into an existing piece of code without breaking it).

Please help me understand this. I thought LSP said essentially that
INSTANCES of the subclass should be drop-in replacements for INSTANCES
of the superclass. But the constructor is really not a property of
INSTANCES... it's clearly a property of the class itself. So... am I
missing something here?

-- Michael Chermside

PS: I do agree that it's mildly annoying for subclassing dict, and that
it's mildly useful for brevity & clarity in declaring some dicts, and
that if anyone actually OBJECTS (which I don't) that python-dev is the
place to speak up pretty-darn-quick.

----- mandated disclaimer below -----


This email may contain confidential or privileged information. If you believe you have received the message in error, please notify the sender and delete the message without copying or disclosing it.





From v.wehren at home.nl  Thu Jun 19 15:06:25 2003
From: v.wehren at home.nl (vincent wehren)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:06:25 +0200
Subject: TypeError: Value() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)
References: <mailman.1056044255.14205.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bct11t$hhu$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"Max Barry" <max at ford-consulting.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1056044255.14205.python-list at python.org...
> I am having problems calling a VB6 let property from a class in python.  I
> get a TypeError: Value() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given).  I presume
the
> self is being passed as the 3rd argument.  Here is an example of the
class:
>
> class someclass:
>     def foo():
How's about:

   def foo(self):
       self.test(somevbobject)

Regards,
Vincent Wehren


> self.test(somevbobject)
>
>     def test(self, Result):
>         Result.Value(1, 0)
>
>
> This is the VB property that python calls:
> Public Property Let Value(ByVal lngIndex As Long, ByVal sngNew As Single)
>     ' Notice: presumed to be zero-based values
>     msngValues(lngIndex + 1) = sngNew
> End Property
>
> Does anybody know how to resolve this problem?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Max
>
>
>
>
>





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun  8 02:27:29 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 00:27:29 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <3EE25DE1.5010408@geekabytes.net>; from junk@geekabytes.net on Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 03:49:21PM -0600
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org> <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <3EE25DE1.5010408@geekabytes.net>
Message-ID: <20030608002729.A3370@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth junk:
  [...]
> If you care, I wrote a little function that will return the current 
> function within a block.  This means, you can have anonymous recursive 
> functions like this:
> 
> import selfref
> factorial = lambda x: ((x==0)*1) or (x * selfref.myself(x-1))

This is certainly clever, but imho good style demands writing even
so simple and familiar a function more directly.  Besides the
simple loss of clarity, I don't see how (without helper functions
defined more sensibly) you'd add a check to the above that x >= 0
(raising a ValueError if it isn't).  Or a docstring, for that
matter.

I can't think offhand of a useful recursive function simple enough
to be clear when written this way; in other words, I can't think
of a case where I'd actually use this.

> Here is the code:
> 
> def myself(*args):
>     prevFrame = sys._getframe(1)
>     myOwnCode = prevFrame.f_code
>     myOwnFuncObj = new.function(myOwnCode, globals())
>     return myOwnFuncObj(*args)
> 
> The only thing this doesn't do is to capture default arguments!!!
  [...]

I don't see the problem with default arguments:

    >>> f = lambda a, b=5: (b<1 and 1 or a*selfref.myself(a, b-1))
    >>> f(3)
    243

Am I missing something?

Keyword arguments are definitely missing, of course, but that lack
is easily remedied:

    def myself(*args, **kwargs):
        prevFrame = sys._getframe(1)
        myOwnCode = prevFrame.f_code
        myOwnFuncObj = new.function(myOwnCode, globals())
        return myOwnFuncObj(*args, **kwargs)

I'm fairly sure you don't want to use globals() here, though.
Here's why:

    >>> import selfref
    >>> x = 3
    >>> f = lambda n: n < 1 and 1 or x + selfref.myself(n-1)
    >>> f(2)
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      [...]
    NameError: global name 'x' is not defined

What you want is, I expect, prevFrame.f_globals.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                             staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I may be wrong but I'm positive."  -- _Friday_, Robert A. Heinlein




From m at moshez.org  Thu Jun 12 13:45:18 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 17:45:18 -0000
Subject: SocketServer - Connection Reset By Peer (Randomly)
In-Reply-To: <36%Fa.387$5e4.12506@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
References: <36%Fa.387$5e4.12506@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <20030612174518.30743.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, "Graeme Matthew" <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au> wrote:

> I am using Python's SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer. It all works fine up to
> a point.
...
> I can sometimes submit the webpage (controller.py) 10 times without an
> Internal Server Error, and sometimes 3, its random, the http log files says:
> 
> 
> File "/www/bi/cgi-bin/controller.py",line 30, in ?
> response = sock.recv(1024)
> socket.error: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')

It looks like you have a problem with the application server: it closes
the connection down. socket.recv dutifully informs you of that.
So, the application server is what I suspect. You have not shown any
code from it, so it is hard to pinpoint your problem.

One question: why are you using a home-grown solution for passing
objects between Python applications instead of using something like
Pyro, CORBA, Twisted's perspective broker or XML-RPC? You are usually
better off *not* reinventing wheels.

Further debugging tips: take the webserver out of the question by
making controller.py be a command line script, and run it in a tight
loop. Then, put lots and lots of prints in your application server
(or maybe run it under PDB, though it might get tricky with threads)
to see where the problem is. But, again, my suggestion: go with tried
and true solutions.

-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Wed Jun 11 15:25:24 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:25:24 GMT
Subject: Need urgent solution......................
References: <20030611181102.5745.84605.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1055355627.11726.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <EmLFa.10525$Fu.3480967@twister.nyc.rr.com>

I am not sure what's not specific enough about the OP's q-n. I understand
the q-n fine (anthough I am not able to answer it in terms of TkInter).
Perhaps you should refer to this:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#bespecific

--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]


"Joe Grossberg" <jgrossberg at matrixgroup.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1055355627.11726.python-list at python.org...
> We know your time is important. So is ours. Please post with a more
> informative title next time (e.g. "How do I determine pixel width of
> text in a Tkinter canvas?", and you'll be more likely to get helpful
> answers.
>
> More info here:
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#bespecific
>
> Good luck,
> Joe
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Joe Grossberg :: Programmer :: jgrossberg at matrixgroup.net
> http://www.matrixmaxx.net/ :: Custom Web Solutions and
> Web-Based Association Management Software.
>
>
>





From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Fri Jun 13 06:30:25 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:30:25 GMT
Subject: MSW crash with <refcnt 0 at ...>
In-Reply-To: <246a4e07.0306120739.74dd977a@posting.google.com>
References: <246a4e07.0306120739.74dd977a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5JhGa.3746$GU5.51113@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Frank Millman wrote:
> Can anyone explain what is going on? Thanks in advance.

It smells like a reference count bug in the ODBC module.  What win32all 
version are you using?  I have no database to test against, but if you 
can reduce it down to the absolute minimum code needed to crash, I may 
still be able to find it.

If you have an old win32all or ActivePython, please check the date - a 
quick check of the log for the ODBC module shows the following checkin:

revision 1.5
date: 2001/06/18 06:57:21;  author: mhammond;  state: Exp;  lines: +7 -7
Patches from Alex Martelli that solves some crashes under error conditions.

A later ODBC module may fix your problem.

Mark.




From P.Schnizer at nospam.gsi.de  Tue Jun  3 11:55:02 2003
From: P.Schnizer at nospam.gsi.de (Pierre Schnizer)
Date: 03 Jun 2003 17:55:02 +0200
Subject: wxPython + wxGrid + data shape change.
Message-ID: <871xybqhpl.fsf@smtp.gsi.de>

Dear all,

	I am using a wxGrid and a grid.wxPyGridTableBase to display data to
the user. These data consist of a list of arrays. Each array is one column. 
At startup the size of the grid matches the data size.

Now the user can add columns to the grid. How do I trigger the grid to display
a new column?

I am using wxPython 2.4.0.2 together with python2.2.1 on a debian stable.
My GTK version is 1.2.10.

Thank you for your help in advance.
Yours sincerely 
	Pierre
--

Remove nospam for a direct reply



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Jun 26 22:37:57 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:37:57 -0500
Subject: stupid question about os.listdir
In-Reply-To: <gWNKa.2933$BM.1845313@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> (Jason
 Kratz's message of "Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:25:16 GMT")
References: <MTNKa.2930$BM.1845254@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
	<gWNKa.2933$BM.1845313@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <m2n0g4qm7u.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Jason" == Jason Kratz <eat at joes.com> writes:

    Jason> oops.  almost forgot.  if I run interactively in the python
    Jason> interpreter it works as I expect.  its when doing 'python
    Jason> script.py' from the command line that it only uses the
    Jason> current directory.

Code, we need more code.  Please post an example, your platform, and
python version.

The following works for me on linux w/ python2.2 called as 
 > python scriptname.py

import os
print os.listdir('/home/jdhunter')
print os.listdir('/home/jdhunter/python')

and the same script (w/ different test paths) works on win32 w/ python
2.2.

JDH




From mmaru at attcanada.ca  Mon Jun 23 23:31:05 2003
From: mmaru at attcanada.ca (Mulugeta Maru)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:31:05 -0500
Subject: Python and Jython
Message-ID: <WJOJa.386$Gf3.1688@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

My background is Java. I would like to know the difference between Python
and Jython. Are they different languages? Should I learn Python first and
then Jython? The reason I would like to learn the language is to use it with
Java.

I just spend one hour on a Python tutorial - the language is just a thing of
beauty!





From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Jun 27 07:47:13 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 07:47:13 -0400
Subject: Activating `-i' from inside a script?
In-Reply-To: <bdgcqm$edh$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
References: <mailman.1056673605.32457.python-list@python.org>
	<bdgcqm$edh$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <oqwuf7spxa.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Fernando Perez]

> Fran?ois, you might want to look at ipython's embedding.  [...] After
> checking your trigger condition, an ipshell() call will load ipython in
> the current data context.

I did not think about loading `ipython' after the fact.  The nice thing
about your idea is that my co-workers are already used to IPython, so it
would be natural for them to find themselves in that interaction context.
Thanks for replying! :-)

-- 
Fran??ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From donald.welch.nospam at hp.com  Fri Jun  6 13:47:09 2003
From: donald.welch.nospam at hp.com (djw)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:47:09 -0700
Subject: Directory & File Monitoring
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306060731.21813c29@posting.google.com> <3EE0D056.288CC1F4@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bbqk3h$e46$1@news.vcd.hp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Steve wrote:
>> 
>> Hi;
>> 
>> I would like to write a python script for windows 2000 that will log
>> who/what touches a particular file in a particular directory.
>> 
>> Is this possible with python alone or do I need to access some Windows
>> api( and which one?)?
> 
> Probably not possible with Python alone, and certainly not something
> that will be portable (not that you seem to mind).
> 
> Can you define what "touch" means?  Do you mean even looking at the
> file, or do you mean in the more technical sense of the "touch"
> utility, where at least the timestamp is modified?  Or do you just
> want to know if the contents are actually changed?  What about if
> the file is deleted?
> 
> Also, what do you mean by "who" and "what"?  The name of the
> application that is doing the touching, and the userid of the
> authenticated user who is running that application?
> 
> Maybe even more useful would be for us to understand better why you
> want to do this.  It's an unusual thing to want to do at the user
> level (i.e. not as part of an OS security/logging feature) and
> maybe there's a better solution.
> 
> -Peter

Would this work for you?

http://sysinternals.com/ntw2k/source/filemon.shtml

Not Python, but it accomplishes what you are after.

Don




From duduca007 at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 10 15:02:06 2003
From: duduca007 at yahoo.com (Carlos Moreira)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:02:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
In-Reply-To: <16102.10640.855883.967908@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20030610190206.54459.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> 
>     ...
> 
>     >> 3) Discovering filter() and map().
> 
>     >> 4) Fortifying classes with __setattr__() and
> friends.
> 
>     >> 4.5) Leaving if:, elif:, and else: on their
> own lines for fear of
>     >>      scorn or deprecation.
> 
>     5) Discovering list comprehensions and then
> dumping filter() and map().

      6) Belive that "self" is not ugly

:)))

        []'s

Cadu Moreira
#000101 GoboLinux User

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jun  9 19:02:13 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 16:02:13 -0700
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <20030609081617512-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
	 <Xns93959D559A750duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <mailman.1055174426.26622.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE511F5.92F88F71@alcyone.com>

Beni Cherniavsky wrote:

> In the latter case you don't need new builtins at all.  Just
> compile::

You don't need it for the `as' case, either.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You are free and that is why you are lost.
\__/  Franz Kafka



From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Jun  4 12:34:17 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:34:17 -0600
Subject: Fixed-length fields in Martel
References: <bbfbio$29u5j$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de> <bbfstn$2mb$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <bbkgrv$2di5g$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
Message-ID: <bbl6q5$ed6$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Michael Schmit:
> > Do you mean my Martel, the regexp parser which generates SAX events?
>
> Yes.

So people are actually using it.  Cool!

> What would you suggest for processing this tabular data? The desired
output
> would be a table (list of lists). Naming each column might be too
> complicated for many columns. Pass the whole table as event and
disassemble
> in the ContentHandler? Pass lines as events? This would make the
> ContentHandler to disassemble the table again. How to avoid this
> redundancy?

What do you need the output to look like?  You could name everything
the same ("field") if it's inappropriate to name every field different.  You
could push the parsing into the ContentHandler (I've got some experimental
code in the lastest Martel to allow content handlers to say they are willing
to do extra processing, for performance sake.)

Also, take a look at the "LAX" content handler, included with Martel.
It's meant to be a simple way to read lists of fields from flat XML reords
and helps with columnar data.

> Validity:
> If the lines have no fixed part (like "ATOM") the combination of
fixed_width
> expressions matches any line of appropriate length. How to make that more
> robust. Require whitespace separation between columns?

So fixed number of characters in a field plus whitespace between them?

  Re("[^\s]{6}") + Re("[ \t]+") + .... + AnyEol()

This reads 6 non-space characters followed by one or more spaces or
tabs, etc. and then the newline.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From tylere at hotpop.com  Tue Jun  3 08:51:49 2003
From: tylere at hotpop.com (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:51:49 GMT
Subject: Exception - how to ignore it ?
References: <bbhjdr$ave$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Message-ID: <FR0Da.371$qd3.63@tornadotest1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Helmut Jarausch wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> is it possible for an exception handler
> to just e.g. print something and set some
> global flags but then to have the script
> continue just after the statement which
> raised the exception?
> 
> Thanks for a hint,
> 
> Helmut Jarausch
> 
> Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
> RWTH - Aachen University
> D 52056 Aachen, Germany

Sure

try:
        a = 4 / 0
except:
        print 'Ooops!'




From troy at gci.net  Fri Jun 27 02:09:44 2003
From: troy at gci.net (Troy Melhase)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:09:44 -0800
Subject: Activating `-i' from inside a script?
References: <oqwuf8cqpy.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca> <mailman.1056674563.715.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vfnnrr3c6ojnf2@corp.supernews.com>

>> Is there a way for a script to activate the effect of the `-i' option,
> something like this might work:
> 
> if discrepancy and sys.stdin.isatty():
>     import code; code.interact(local=globals())

Fran?ois, Fredrik:

I thought this would work, but it doesn't:

import os

if __name__ == '__main__':
    discrepancy = True
    if discrepancy:
        os.environ['PYTHONINSPECT'] = "why yes, i'd like that"


A quick read of Modules/main.c shows that the environment variable is
checked at program start, not at end.  Maybe this is a bug?

-troy




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sun Jun  8 08:21:41 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 05:21:41 -0700
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054675867.2029.python-list@python.org> <l1of1dljbd.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054759872.4871.python-list@python.org> <l1brxdlfac.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054837391.22613.python-list@python.org> <l1znkwjjky.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054857253.30080.python-list@python.org> <l1u1b3k9e8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004876.24354.python-list@python.org> <l1znkthb3f.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306080421.4a5fa99d@posting.google.com>

Ed Avis <ed at membled.com> wrote in message news:<l1znkthb3f.fsf at budvar.future-i.net>...
> Of course it seems a little clunky to define these
> functions with a name that is then never used except to return them
> anonymously

I have recently come to the habit of calling "_" my anonymous
functions
(especially in closures). It is very unobstrusive, clear, and save me
the
effort of thinking if I should name the internal function wrap,
wrapper, wrapped, on any other similar verbose combination  ;)


                                                  Michele



From evan at 4-am.com  Fri Jun 27 13:58:31 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:58:31 -0500
Subject: Possible project - Python mail proxy to do greylisting, etc.
In-Reply-To: <c9sofvk2gk49egj6g7i12n2ne1vslm071e@4ax.com>
References: <bdhqhe$3bh$1@main.gmane.org> <c9sofvk2gk49egj6g7i12n2ne1vslm071e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EFC85C7.3090703@4-am.com>

Richie Hindle wrote:
> Spambayes (a Python Bayesian spam filter, see www.spambayes.org) has a
> Python SMTP proxy

Ah, thanks.  I knew it had POP3 and IMAP proxies, but not SMTP.

I was obviously not clear enough when I said "project like this", 
though.  Python code to proxy SMTP isn't hard to come by, but I was 
talking about a Python proxy that does interesting things with the data 
provided by HELO, RCPT TO, and MAIL FROM.

In particular, I'm interested in making it very easy to experiment with 
various greylisting, tarpitting, and sender validation configurations. 
I could certainly start from Spambayes' code, or just use async, but I'm 
also interesting in judging Twisted for myself.

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am






From bsimuyandi at africonnect.com  Fri Jun 13 04:37:57 2003
From: bsimuyandi at africonnect.com (Ben Simuyandi)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:37:57 +0100
Subject: Newbie: changing an attribute of objects in a list
References: <bc72gq$cv3$1@main.gmane.org> <bc7gcd$ncf$1@main.gmane.org> <20030611120656.F1157@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus> <bc9fub$7vu$1@main.gmane.org> <20030612111547.B902@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
Message-ID: <bcc2c6$f00$1@main.gmane.org>

I'm very sorry about the confusion. It comes from mistyping, and not
thinking through my problem.

The first problem is from me not entering the number correctly. As you say,
it should be a.order = 8 and g.order =9.

As for the second problem, this is because I had not thought about *exactly*
what I want. What I would like is for the .age to be compared if any items
have matching .order values, and the object with the larger .age value to
have its .order value increased by one.

for example:
if d.order and e.order match
   compare d.age and e.age
      if d.age > e.age
        d.order = d.order + 1
      else if d.age < e.age
        e.order = e.order + 1

But after that, all objects with a .order value matching or greater than the
changed .order value with have to be increased by one as well, so that all
items still have a unique .order value. I don't actually need to compare
.age values any more.

example: (second example from previous email).


"Steven Taschuk" <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:20030612111547.B902 at tibia.amotlpaa.bogus...
> Quoth Ben Simuyandi:
> > Example objects in a list [a,b,...,i]:
>   [...]
>
> Thanks!
>
> There's two things I don't understand in your examples.  One in
> each, tidily enough.
>
> In the first example, where all items start with .order == 1 and
> the output is supposed to be
>
>     a.age == 100    a.order == 9
>     b.age == 200    b.order == 6
>     c.age == 300    c.order == 5
>     d.age == 400    d.order == 4
>     e.age == 500    e.order == 3
>     f.age == 600    f.order == 2
>     g.age == 50     g.order == 9
>     h.age == 700    h.order == 1
>     i.age == 150    i.order == 7
>
> why do a and g get the same .order?  I'd expected that we want
> g.order == 9 and a.order == 8.
>
> Then the second example, where we start with
>
>     [...]
>     d.age == 400    d.order == 4
>     e.age == 500    e.order == 4
>     f.age == 600    f.order == 5
>     g.age == 50     g.order == 6
>     h.age == 700    h.order == 7
>     i.age == 150    i.order == 8
>
> and are to produce
>
>     [...]
>     d.age == 400    d.order == 4
>     e.age == 500    e.order == 5
>     f.age == 600    f.order == 6
>     g.age == 50     g.order == 7
>     h.age == 700    h.order == 8
>     i.age == 150    i.order == 9
>
> Again the handling of g puzzles me.  Here's my thinking:
>
>     1) d and e both have order 4; since d.age < e.age, we let d have
>     order 4 and bump e up to order 5.
>
>     2) Then e and f both have order 5; since e.age < f.age, we let e
>     have order 5 and bump f up to order 6.
>
>     3) Then f and g both have order 6.  In the example posted, f gets
>     order 6 and g gets bumped up to order 7.  But f.age > g.age, so I
>     expected g to take precedence for order 6.
>
> What's going on here?  I'm baffled.
>
> --
> Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
> "[T]rue greatness is when your name is like ampere, watt, and fourier
>  -- when it's spelled with a lower case letter."      -- R.W. Hamming
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>







From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun  5 14:11:20 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:11:20 -0400
Subject: Loop over list of pairs
References: <bbnjsu$bb260$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EDF87C8.A3D6679B@engcorp.com>

Thomas G?ttler wrote:
> 
> What is the prefered way of loop over
> a list like this?
>  mylist=[1, "one", 2, "two", 3, "three"]


>>> def divide(s, n):
...   return [s[i:i+n] for i in xrange(0, len(s), n)]
...
>>> mylist = [1, 'one', 2, 'two', 3, 'three']
>>>
>>> for left, right in divide(mylist, 2):
...   print left, 'is', right
...
1 is one
2 is two
3 is three


-Peter



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Wed Jun 18 22:59:47 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:59:47 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com>
 <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <3EEDEDBE.BCB56D6E@engcorp.com> <HGMnCw.5tM@arl.mil>
 <un0gg6ve3.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <873ci7o7c0.fsf@pobox.com>
 <mailman.1055950113.21958.python-list@python.org>
 <87ptlbml4b.fsf@pobox.com>
 <mailman.1055954837.28619.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uk7bi4vrw.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:

> Quoth John J. Lee:
>> Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:
>   [...]
>> > But I find it greatly eases
>> > debugging and one-off data munging tasks.
>> 
>> That's what I was referring to, and I assume David too.  If any
>> function or class is more than say 5 lines, I use emacs.  [...]
>
> Hm... then I think I'm missing something.
>
> When debugging, all the substantial code is written elsewhere; I
> just import it and fiddle.  When data munging, I load the data
> into memory and fiddle.  Each fiddle is almost invariably a single
> line of code, so errors are not big setbacks.

These lines invariably turn into regression tests, so I want to be
working from my IDE anyway.  Doctest rules!

>> [...] It's still
>> convenient, but can be replaced quite easily with a good IDE, I think.
>
> I'm not sure how an IDE would help with interactive data-munging,
> unless it provides an environment very similar to the one which
> the interactive prompt provides.

Edit test script, run python on it, repeat...

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun  5 07:56:30 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 07:56:30 -0400
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054662726.12651.python-list@python.org> <38ec68a6.0306031913.3600bc16@posting.google.com> <3EDD6610.3CABE86A@engcorp.com> <38ec68a6.0306041832.4b0817e5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EDF2FEE.7D031B68@engcorp.com>

Asun Friere wrote:
> 
> ? a = 556; b = 556
> ? a is b
> 1

Hmm?  That one surprises me.  I wonder how the compiler is
treating that line...  I would have though ; basically had
the same effect as a line seperator.

-Peter



From suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com  Tue Jun 24 09:04:29 2003
From: suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com (Suresh  Kumar)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 13:04:29 -0000
Subject: Stroing tkinter screen as PNG file..............
Message-ID: <20030624130429.25639.qmail@webmail26.rediffmail.com>

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From beliavsky at aol.com  Wed Jun 11 19:12:38 2003
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 16:12:38 -0700
Subject: vector subscripts in Python?
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0306111512.7701dbbc@posting.google.com>

Does Python have the equivalent of "vector subscripts" of Fortran 95?
The code below illustrates what I am looking for -- with better syntax. 

def subscript(xx,ii):
    # return the elements in xx subscripted by ii
    y = []
    for i in ii: y.append(xx[i])
    return y
    
ii = [0,2]
xx = [1,4,9]
print subscript(xx,ii) # returns [1, 9]; in F95, "print*,xx(ii)" is analogous



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sun Jun  1 22:56:21 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 22:56:21 -0400
Subject: Defensive programming
References: <hIqp1WAG0c2+Ew1+@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <mailman.1054463105.27128.python-list@python.org>
 <7xptlxq2yz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <t6l2+kKkXs2L092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <Vzr2+kKkX0fP092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote previously:
|I think there's something to be said for using collision resistant
|hashes whenever any kind of hash is needed.  Why fall back on the OS
|to get you out of trouble, when you can avoid getting in trouble in
|the first place?  I haven't read the papers yet though.

Well... for Python, I'd rather have a hash with excellent typical case
performance than a typically slower one with more collision resistance.
If my normal, non-DoS programs run a bit faster, that's something I
experience every day... if those (very) few of them that have
conceivable DoS exposure do badly under attack... well, that's bad, but
probably best addressed otherwise.

Yours, Lulu...

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.




From djc at object-craft.com.au  Thu Jun 19 07:27:59 2003
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 21:27:59 +1000
Subject: ANNOUNCE: JOTWeb 1.11, preview of new web application system.
In-Reply-To: <20030619102215.GC23876@tummy.com>
References: <20030617162210.GB5896@tummy.com>
	<1055884182.1169.11.camel@emilio>
	<mailman.1055919212.4742.python-list@python.org>
	<m3he6nbr78.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
	<20030619102215.GC23876@tummy.com>
Message-ID: <m3el1q9uio.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "Sean" == Sean Reifschneider <jafo at tummy.com> writes:

Sean> On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 08:44:27PM +1000, Dave Cole wrote:
>> Or you could use one of the application classes to reduce the code
>> needed for each page.  Assuming you have more than one page in the
>> application.

Sean> There were no examples demonstrating that...

One thing I have discovered is it takes a lot more effort to document
these toolkits and build examples than it does to build the actual
toolkit.

Sean> Sure, I'd love to spend a couple of weeks getting really
Sean> familiar with all the different web application frameworks out
Sean> there so that I could really make an informed decision based on
Sean> the implementation of a represenative application.  However, if
Sean> I had 3 months off work I'm not sure I'd spend it re-writing a
Sean> web app a dozen times...  :-)

Can't argue with that.  If I was to guess the outcome of the
investigation you would probably find that each toolkit had strengths
and weaknesses.  You would also probably find that most (if not all)
had a niche where they were better than all of the others.

>> When it comes down to it, the number of lines in a trivial
>> application is not why you use toolkits and frameworks.  You use a
>> framework to help construct a complex application.

Sean> Adding complexity to every page in a complex application is also
Sean> a serious problem.  It means that every time I have to look at
Sean> some page code, I have to understand what's going on in this
Sean> setup code.  It also means that if I set up one page that has
Sean> different setup code, I'm likely to miss it unless I read all
Sean> the code fairly carefully.

Again there is no argument here.  I might add that if the setup is not
purely exposing data to the templating then there is no way that the
toolkit will be doing that work for you.  That means that the code has
to be provided by the application and has to reside somewhere.

If I read your comment correctly you are making the point that it is
preferable to glue the pieces of application code together by
references in the templates:

   <span tal:replace="code/currenttime"></span>

which then implicitly imports code.py and invokes currenttime()

In Albatross the glue at that level is all in Python, and in your
application.  This means that you have to do a little more work in
locating the code that provides the currenttime() function.  No big
deal really.

    from myapp.utils.code import currenttime

    def page_display(ctx):
        ctx.locals.currenttime = currenttime
        ctx.run_template('time.html')

The the template calls the function (if you want to do it that way).

In Albatross the toolkit locates and loads the single Python module
that is responsible for responding to a browser request.  Once that
module has been loaded the application programmer is then responsible
for importing all of the other Python code used to respond to the
request.

>From your example above, JOTWeb takes a much finer grained approach in
that the template identified by the browser request pulls in Python
code fragments from a namespace structured by the file system.

Sean> I *LIKE* systems that take care of the common things for you.

One of the most difficult decisions I faced when building Albatross
was deciding what to make implicit and what to leave to the developer.

When you make something implicit you remove some flexibility from the
application developer.  I imagine you wondered from time to time when
building JOTWeb whether or not something should be implicit.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au





From tchur at optushome.com.au  Tue Jun 17 17:09:42 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 07:09:42 +1000
Subject: ANNOUNCE: JOTWeb 1.11, preview of new web application system.
In-Reply-To: <20030617162210.GB5896@tummy.com>
References: <20030617162210.GB5896@tummy.com>
Message-ID: <1055884182.1169.11.camel@emilio>

On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 02:22, Sean Reifschneider wrote:
> Welcome to the first wide-spread announcement of my latest project: JOTWeb.
> 
> JOTWeb is a system for developing dynamic web sites using a combination
> of HTML+TAL/TALES/METAL and Python, with mod_python for integrating with
> Apache.  Benefits include good documentation, a fairly simple and
> intuitive design, and powerful yet easy to use session and form
> processing.
>
> More information including "why another one", examples, and more is
> available at:
> 
>    http://jotweb.tummy.com/
> 

At the above site you explain:
"Why Another WebApp?
The short answer is that I couldn't really find another web application
system that I felt comfortable with. They were either too heavy-weight,
didn't work as I expected them or didn't fit my development model, were
not well enough documented, etc... "

Just out of interest, what didn't you like about Albatross (
http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/ )? Superficially at
least, Albatross seems to look a lot like JotWEB, in its templating
syntax, underlying architecture and light weight. No criticism of your
decision to develop another Pythonic WebApp framework is intended - the
more the merrier - but as a user of Albatross I am genuinely interested
in what you thought isn't right with it.
-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0


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From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Tue Jun 17 21:43:03 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:43:03 -0600
Subject: pack and unpack problems
Message-ID: <20030618014303.0DCCB269AC@www.fastmail.fm>

Hi,

I've been trying to do some work with struct's pack and unpack.  I'm
having a hard time though, because I'm used to perl's sizes, but things
aren't working as expected in python.  In perl I could do...

my ($a, $b) = unpack 'xxNxxH8', $data;

So I tried to convert it to python as...

a, b = unpack('xxLxx8c', data)

Note I used c instead of H cause I wasn't sure what to replace H with.  I
get the following error...

exceptions.ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size

struct.calcsize('xxLxx8c') returns 18, which is the amount of bytes in
"data", at least I think so.  I'm not sure what's going on here.  Anybody
have any advice on this?

Thanks.
-Justin




From listbox at cybereal.org  Sat Jun 14 05:51:06 2003
From: listbox at cybereal.org (Zac Jensen)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 03:51:06 -0600
Subject: Execute a process as a specific user
In-Reply-To: <3EEAEBE1.3010800@wanadoo.es>
References: <3EE9E547.9040209@wanadoo.es> <3EEAEBE1.3010800@wanadoo.es>
Message-ID: <200306140351.08929.listbox@cybereal.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Saturday 14 June 2003 03:33 am, Maurix wrote:
> Hi,
> Thanks but... it didn't work!!
> Is better if I explain what i'm tring to do,
> I want to connect to the X server from the console but the
> Xlib say that i don't have the permission if i'm root!
> I use the commando of Tkinter: tk=Tkinter.Tk(":0.0")
> ( ??way if i'm the boss??)
> So i tryed to make this making a su to the user fo X server
> and it work perfectly!! Now i don't want to depend on "su" program
> and i tryied this command, set(e)uid and set(e)grp, but can't connect
> to the X-server anyway: client is not authorized
> My question is, exist a more elegant way to make this: a script
> that show a Tk window from the console, a script that stay in
> background for all the time.
> I'm afraid that i'm out of theme here because is a problem of
> Xservers but, please, if anyone have make somting like this help
> me.

It is an X server issue, which is easily solved, while logged in as the user 
you are running the Xserver as... just run xhost +localhost ; or xhost 
+<owner-user> +root   either of these will solve your issue.  A more general 
but less safe (unless you have a trustworthy firewall) is to run xhost +   
which will allow all clients without trouble.

- -Zac
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=LP4M
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From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Fri Jun 20 03:51:51 2003
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:51:51 +0200
Subject: Run a linux program through python
In-Reply-To: <bcuddk$m55$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
References: <bcuddk$m55$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <2147483647.1056102711@[10.19.128.17]>

Inside an ExternalMethod:

import os
os.system('your_program')

Check the mailinglist archive. This question has been answered a dozen of 
times.

-aj

--On Freitag, 20. Juni 2003 9:29 Uhr +0200 Gunnar Staff 
<gunnaran at stud.math.ntnu.no> wrote:

> I would like ti run a linux program through a
> python script. Do enyone know the syntax for
> running a OS program from python?
>
> Assume I'll run
> $ convert fromfile tofile
>
> Gunnar
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list








From danieljng at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 12 04:09:37 2003
From: danieljng at yahoo.com (Daniel)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 01:09:37 -0700
Subject: Python Regex Newbie- matching substrings
Message-ID: <798d4337.0306120009.46cdef2a@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I would like my regex to detect that a month (any month) is in the
following line, returning the index of the start of the match:

Jun 05 14:40:26 2003 .....


So far, I've tried:

  months       = re.compile('(Jan)')
  searchResult = months.search('abcJan')
  print searchResult.start()


-Which works for just 'Jan' of course, and it correctly prints '3'. 


How do I get it to work for all months? 



I tried:

  months       = re.compile('[(Jan)(Feb)(Mar)]+')


-but that regex is too 'greedy' ie. matches too easily- I think it
matches the individual letters in each of Jan, Feb, Mar instead.


Thanks,
Daniel.



From delphiro at zonnet.nl  Thu Jun 26 13:14:50 2003
From: delphiro at zonnet.nl (delphiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:14:50 +0200
Subject: boa constructor - run script/output
In-Reply-To: <3EFAE800.6080406@gmx.net>
References: <3EFAE800.6080406@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20030626191450.057182c3.delphiro@zonnet.nl>

problem 1)

It sounds like you need to import your script

import your_script_name

and attach an event to the function that you want to call
from within your script

for example;

yourscript.py contains function 'DoThis()'

in gui class:

import yourscript.py

some event

def OnButtonMyButtonDown(self,event):
    yourscript.DoThis()

2)

You will have to edit your script in a way that it
knows where to send it's output. This means you will
have to pass a widget (like wxTextCtrl) to your script
and output the messages to that widget.

The best way to actualy learn wxPython for me was to study the
examples. They realy make things clear for almost any widget!

Hope this helps,
Rob

-- 
[-------------delphiro-------------]
[-- http://pyciv.sourceforge.net --]
[----------------------------------]




From nav at adams.patriot.net  Tue Jun 10 15:00:33 2003
From: nav at adams.patriot.net (Nick Vargish)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 15:00:33 -0400
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <yyyznkpkbam.fsf@adams.patriot.net>


bitbucket at safe-mail.net (poiboy) writes:

> 4.5) Leaving if:, elif:, and else: on their own lines for fear of
>      scorn or deprecation.

Going through my own programs and making sure I did the same with
try:, a couple of months after a misguided attempt to make my style
look like the examples in the Cookbook.

In addition:

Trying to write a Perl text filter for some coworkers, to be run on a
system without Python, and finding it _very_ hard going. (I used to
write Perl for a living, so this was amazing to me.)

Feeling somewhat outraged that someone would want to add ++foo to
Python.

Nick

-- 
# sigmask.py  ||  version 0.2  ||  2003-01-07  ||  Feed this to your Python.
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAqbusjpu/ofu?','')



From khcarlso at bellsouth.net  Wed Jun  4 16:28:20 2003
From: khcarlso at bellsouth.net (Kevin Carlson)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 16:28:20 -0400
Subject: using urllib or httplib to post with ENCTYPE=mulitpart/form-data
Message-ID: <3EDE5664.2090508@bellsouth.net>

Hi,

I am trying to post to a form using httplib or urllib.  I have done this 
successfully before with httplib, but when the enctype must be 
multipart/form-data, things go awry.

I tried using a header {'Content-Type' : 'multipart/form-data', ...} 
that I encode with urlencode and then pass to the HTTPConnection.request 
method, but the server is returning a code indicating a bad request.  I 
have done a lot of troubleshooting on this and the encoding type is the 
only remaining issue.

Can anyone shed some light on how to accomplish a POST of this type?

Thanks,

Kevin





From clifford.wells at attbi.com  Sat Jun 14 01:22:15 2003
From: clifford.wells at attbi.com (Cliff Wells)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 22:22:15 -0700
Subject: why does python execute line bye line as im coding?????????
In-Reply-To: <20030613235210.11559.00000446@mb-m13.aol.com>
References: <20030613235210.11559.00000446@mb-m13.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1055568135.6522.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2003-06-13 at 20:52, L48R4T wrote:
> im just going through the python for beginrers tutorial and all was cool untill
> i stated trying to do thing s like
> input = name("whats your name")
> print "hello  "name
> 
> the above example would execute after i hit return on the first line. not
> giving me the chance to input the second line of code ???????????????????
> any help wi=ould be a blessing thanks 

Mistakes or omissions in the above code aside, if you are typing code
into the interactive interpreter, then it executes each line as you type
it.  This is useful for testing things out.  If you want to write an
entire program and execute it all at once, you need to use a text editor
(preferably emacs) to create the file (something like "myprogram.py")
and then use the command "python myprogram.py" to run it.

Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at attbi.com>





From x at x.com  Sat Jun 21 23:23:36 2003
From: x at x.com (Peter Brown)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:23:36 +1000
Subject: mod_python hell in Apache/Windows XP
References: <6GTIa.32066$111.24282@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <t7k8fv4mtcju19oeu9cetos78mf2atu5ic@4ax.com> <ZwZIa.162283$3Sm.70490@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3ef52138$1@usenet.per.paradox.net.au>

Same here,

Uninstalled everything, and then reinstalled using Python 2.2.3 instead of
Puython 2.3 and all works fine.

Peter


"Tim" <tim.harford at rogers.com> wrote in message
news:ZwZIa.162283$3Sm.70490 at news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> Thanks for your encouragement. I was making attempts until 3am last night
> with no luck. Somehow all the install/uninstalls must have got things
> confused. I uninstalled everything, and then:
>
> 1. installed apache
> 2. Installed Python 2.2
> 3. Installed  mod_py
>
> did the little test program and voila -> "Hello World."
>
> Any advice on the best way to configure for CGI is much appreciated...
>
> Thanks again,
> T
>
> PS: the weird thing is that the mod_python installer said it could not
find
> the module os (wrong!--it's there), and yet everything is working...weird!
> :-)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jaros?aw Zabie??o" <webmaster at watchtowerDOTcom.pl>
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 8:39 AM
> Subject: Re: mod_python hell in Apache/Windows XP
>
>
> > On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:19:30 GMT, "Tim" <tim.harford at rogers.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I've read all the posts and tried just about everything. No matter
what,
> > > Apache says it can't find the mod_python module!
> >
> > Get the installer from
> > http://www.modpython.org/ and run it.
> >
> > Your mod_python.so should be instaled at YourApachePath/modules
> >
> > Add the follwing lin to your httpd.conf file:
> >
> > LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.so
> >
> > Restart Apache. It works.
> >
> "Jaros?aw Zabie??o" <webmaster at watchtowerDOTcom.pl> wrote in message
> news:t7k8fv4mtcju19oeu9cetos78mf2atu5ic at 4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:19:30 GMT, "Tim" <tim.harford at rogers.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I've read all the posts and tried just about everything. No matter
what,
> > > Apache says it can't find the mod_python module!
> >
> > Get the installer from
> > http://www.modpython.org/ and run it.
> >
> > Your mod_python.so should be instaled at YourApachePath/modules
> >
> > Add the follwing lin to your httpd.conf file:
> >
> > LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.so
> >
> > Restart Apache. It works.
> >
>
>





From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Jun 26 13:11:57 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:11:57 -0500
Subject: Standard ways to get union, intersection, difference of lists?
In-Reply-To: <sPBKa.323303$3n5.24366@news2.central.cox.net> ("Steve
 Holden"'s message of "Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:38:48 GMT")
References: <mailman.1056620804.9083.python-list@python.org>
	<sPBKa.323303$3n5.24366@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <m2ptl0sqzm.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Steve" == Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> writes:

    Steve> Not necessarily: I believe you can just pick up the sets
    Steve> module from CVS and run it under 2.2+.

I just tried import sets from the 2.3b1 distribution under python 2.2,
but it failed with an ImportError trying to load itertools.  I believe
itertools is a C module, so perhaps it is not so straightforward to
use sets from 2.2?

John Hunter




From dave at technopagan.org  Thu Jun 12 01:27:50 2003
From: dave at technopagan.org (David E. Smith)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 05:27:50 +0000
Subject: 2nd CFV: comp.databases.berkeley-db
Message-ID: <1055395670.28364@isc.org>

                      LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
             unmoderated group comp.databases.berkeley-db

Newsgroups line:
comp.databases.berkeley-db	The Berkeley DB libraries.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 24 Jun 2003.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Philip Greer <philip at tildesoftware.com>
Proponent: Dave Segleau <dave at sleepycat.com>
Votetaker: David E. Smith <dave at technopagan.org>


RATIONALE: comp.databases.berkeley-db

There is not a specific Usenet location for discussions on berkeley
database management software (from this point forward I'll refer to as
just 'berkeley-db'). Discussion pertaining to the library occurs on
many other other Usenet forums. Often writings are specific to
berkeley-db itself and does not pertain to the subject matter of the
group the discussion falls within. Not only would a berkeley-db
specific forum provide a central location for todays frequent Usenet
users, it would also provide an on-line research tool for those
seeking on-line issue assistance with the library. Entities such as
Google will provide archives of group postings, and search tools for
those seeking answers to berkeley-db questions - drawing those on-line
that were not aware of the Usenet group (or of net news as a whole).
>From the "Berkeley DB Reference Guide: Introduction": '[berkeley-db]
runs under almost all UNIX and Linux variants, Windows, and a number
of embedded real-time operating systems. It runs on both 32-bit and
64-bit systems. It has been deployed on high-end Internet servers,
desktop machines, and on palmtop computers, set-top boxes, in network
switches, and elsewhere.' As well, berkeley-db has been a tool
available to the programming community for over ten years and
is used on a global scale with over 200 million installations. The
need for an on-line, central location for community discussions has
been long standing. Usenet is the best tool to fulfill this need and
allows addressing this need on a global scale.


CHARTER: comp.databases.berkeley-db

The newsgroup comp.databases.berkeley-db is a news forum devoted to
the discussion of the berkeley database management library. Discussion
entails, but is not limited to: its usage in all programming languages
that can utilize it, bugs, patches, tricks, techniques, support,
announcements; all in a free and open atmosphere.
All postings should be in ordinary text format only. Postings of
binaries (or encoding thereof) is highly discouraged. Cross-posting of
articles irrelevant to the berkeley database library is also
discouraged. The berkeley-db newsgroup is not moderated. Therefore it
is up to the global user base to police its usage.

END CHARTER.


IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in
reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested
parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of
this CFV is considered vote fraud.

This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be
listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real
name or an established Usenet handle.

At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate
votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.

Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous,
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======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 2ND CALL FOR VOTES: comp.databases.berkeley-db
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot [CDB-42-2] (Do not remove this line!)
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======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============


DISTRIBUTION:

This CFV will be posted to the following newsgroups:

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Pointers to the CFV will be posted to the following newsgroups:

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From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jun 20 23:21:38 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:21:38 -0400
Subject: os.listdir()
References: <s6KIa.218256$g92.4546830@news2.tin.it> <just-CDC716.22300020062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <b7LIa.218628$g92.4560101@news2.tin.it> <just-CDEAFA.23550020062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <TFLIa.218846$g92.4567844@news2.tin.it> <mailman.1056150163.21087.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EF3CF42.CCEF2DA9@engcorp.com>

Hans Nowak wrote:
> 
> manuel wrote:
> >>If you can't "import os" in Blender, something is wrong...
> >
> This might work: import the nt module (it's built-in), then use nt.listdir.

In which case "import nt as os" _might_ be good for portability.
Otherwise you'd be sprinkling nt.listdir's around and confusing
anyone trying to read the code.

-Peter



From artyprog at wanadoo.fr  Sat Jun 21 11:21:02 2003
From: artyprog at wanadoo.fr (Salvatore)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:21:02 +0200
Subject: dynamic creating of class
In-Reply-To: <ulj8fvcs6483dh7khpl6jm6fsu26snnjv1@4ax.com>
References: <ulj8fvcs6483dh7khpl6jm6fsu26snnjv1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bd1t5o$41p$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

Jaros?aw Zabie??o wrote:
> Is there a possibility for Python to dynamic binding of class?  I can
> do it in PHP but I do not know how to make the same in Python. 
> Look at the following example:

I had the same problem and I don't remember who gave me the solution.
The idea is to use 'eval'

class A:
     def __init__(self):
         self.class_name = 'A'

class B:
     def __init__(self):
         self.class_name = 'B'


choosed_class = 'A'
choosed_class += '()'
instance_of_choosed_class = eval(choosed_class)

Thanks to the one who gave me the solution :-)

Regards

Salvatore




From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Thu Jun  5 16:59:20 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:59:20 -0500 
Subject: Loop over list of pairs
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304FC509C@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Alexander Schmolck [mailto:a.schmolck at gmx.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 3:58 PM
> 
> Thomas G?ttler <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> writes:
> 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > What is the prefered way of loop over
> > a list like this?
> >  mylist=[1, "one", 2, "two", 3, "three"]
> 
> you could use this:
> 
> def xgroup(iter,n=2):
>     """
>     >>> list(xgroup(range(9), 3))
>     [(0, 1, 2), (3, 4, 5), (6, 7, 8)]
>     """
>     last = []
>     for elt in iter:
>         last.append(elt)
>         if len(last) == n: yield tuple(last); last = []
>

Since 'n' is known from the start you don't need to
test against it, nor build a list piecemeal.  Something
like this seems a bit more solid:

def xgroup(Iterable, group=2):
   """Return a groupwise iterator for Iterable."""
   Iterator = iter(Iterable)
   Length = range(group)
   while 1:
      yield [ Iterator.next() for i in xrange(group) ]

hth!

-gca

Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jun 14 05:20:09 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 05:20:09 -0400
Subject: raw strings under windows
References: <DgwGa.47757$Io.4419696@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3EEAE8C9.FE8BF18@engcorp.com>

"Cecil H. Whitley" wrote:
> 
> When doing the following:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> path = r"c:\python23\"
> 
> I get a syntax error, unexpected EOL with singlequoted string.  It was my
> (mis?) understanding that raw strings did not process escaped characters?
> Of course
> path = "c:\\python23\\"

Alternative that almost always works just fine as well:

path = "c:/python23/"

Try it... unless you're passing it to a command via os.system(), or 
doing direct string comparisons on paths without first using os.normpath()
you likely won't encounter a problem.  Windows internally allows forward
slash most of the time; in the DOS prompt it does not.

-PEter



From amk at amk.ca  Mon Jun 23 09:47:23 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:47:23 -0500
Subject: FOAF-parser??
References: <M6XIa.8186$Hb.144201@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <GtWdnWKBGLZ2mWqjRTvU2Q@speakeasy.net>

On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 13:14:00 +0200, 
	Thomas Weholt <2002 at weholt.org> wrote:
> Tramp[2] and RDFLib, but they don't seem to fit the task somehow. All I want
> is to parse a FOAF-file and get a list of persons back, each person may
> again have a list of persons he/she knows etc. My attempts so far has been a
> terrible mess of SAX, pulldom and rdflib.

You shouldn't need to mess with SAX and pulldom at all; rdflib will
take care of the parsing for you.  For example:

from rdflib.triple_store import TripleStore
from rdflib.nodes import URIRef
from rdflib import const

ts = TripleStore()
ts.parse_URI('http://www.amk.ca/amk.rdf')

# Get all subjects whose type is the FOAF Person class; returns a generator
gen = ts.subjects(const.TYPE, URIRef('http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/Person'))
# Convert generator to a list
L = list(gen)

I don't list anyone I know in my FOAF file, but finding my school affiliations
is a similar task:

amk = L[0]
schools = ts.objects(amk, URIRef('http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/schoolHomepage'))

list(schools) is then ['http://www.dawsoncollege.qc.ca/',
'http://www.mcgill.ca'].

The current CVS version of RDFLib has rearranged things a bit, and I forget
if I'm running the CVS or the last stable version, so the code above may
need some tweaking.  Still, figuring out the information you need shouldn't
be a very difficult task, whatever version of rdflib you're trying to use.

--amk



From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 12 09:52:59 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 13:52:59 GMT
Subject: PEP318: property as decoration
References: <bc568h$5t4$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <DIuFa.5725$Gm4.690616@news20.bellglobal.com> <bc7ibf$fjv$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <20030611184025.GB5575@nl.linux.org> <mailman.1055362671.6994.python-list@python.org> <bc8t5b$chh$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <mailman.1055410883.13759.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bca0jr$n46$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

"Gerrit Holl" <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.1055410883.13759.python-list at python.org...
> Such a hack isn't that hard of course.
> I solved it by adding "d=" just before my docstring:

I see ... So

> Sean Ross wrote:
> >         def foo():
                      "foo's doc string"
                       ...
> >                 fdoc = "foo"
> >                 return fget, fset, fdel, fdoc
>
Gerrit Holl wrote:
> Make that: "return fget, fset, fdel, __doc__"

was not what you really wanted. You wanted:

def foo():
        fdoc="foo's doc string"
        ...

which is what I started with?!  Heh. ;)


>__doc__
> doesn't need to stay anyway, because this outer function gets overwritten
> by the property.

Personally, I liked the idea of being able to use a proper doc string to
document my property-maker function  "foo", i.e.,

def foo():
    "proper doc string goes here"
    ...

which I can then quietly pass along to the property "foo" that will
overwrite this function. Is it necessary? Nope. I already had it working
without this. Is it neat? Yep. It grabs hold of the function *inside* of the
function. That is so cool! Should it be done? Probably not...but that wasn't
the point of the exercise. The only real reason I made it was to see if I
could.

> The only place I use frames is in by debug() function: this way, it
> prints the function and lineno of the caller, which easy's debugging.

Well, technically, "this" can be used in debugging (if made more robust with
regard to class lookup) to inspect your function by asking it things: like
this().__name__, this().__doc__.

Anyway, thanks for your earlier suggestion re: __doc__, it provided me with
a few minutes of amusement cobbling together "this()". I don't think it
should be used, but I did enjoy trying to make it work.






From ray at rays-web.com  Fri Jun 13 05:19:19 2003
From: ray at rays-web.com (Ray Smith)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 02:19:19 -0700
Subject: long-term release schedule?
References: <mailman.1055465243.2520.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5654fff9.0306130119.209b6605@posting.google.com>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055465243.2520.python-list at python.org>...
> [Ray Smith]
> > ...
> > I guess the "angle" of my question was it Guido and his team didn't
> > get commercial backing to continue development of Python how would it
> > effect the growth and commercial support of Python??
> 
> Well, how *has* it affected it?  Nobody has had a full-time job working on
> Python since BeOpen.com folded.  Zope Corporation has been very generous in
> funding Python work beyond the minimum that Zope Corp needs for its own
> plans, but all of us at PythonLabs spend nearly all our paid time directly
> on Zope-related work now (most of which uses Python, but decreasingly little
> of which develops Python anymore).  For example, follow the bug and patch
> trackers on SourceForge, and you'll see that the sum of Python work done by
> Guido and his crew is dwarfed by the work done by others, and that's been so
> for a long time now.

Wow, obviously you guys inparticular plus the community in general are doing
alot more work than I realised. 
I guess I can set myself a long term challenge ... to actually fix / document /
or contribute in some way to Python!!! 

Regards,

Ray Smith



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Jun  5 00:53:21 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 23:53:21 -0500
Subject: girl scout badge
In-Reply-To: <eb5e40b2.0306042028.635442d6@posting.google.com>
References: <eb5e40b2.0306042028.635442d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1054788800.681.26.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-06-04 at 23:28, sam420 wrote:
> I'd like a simple python program to help organize my girl scout badge
> info. I want a GUI interface that would have different button for each
> badge, i.e., if I hit the communication button, the communication
> requirements would pop up. Or if I hit the weather badge button, the
> requirements for the weather badge would pop up. I'd like to start
> with 6 badges. I'll type the requirements in the data (?) file, but
> you would have to create the actual file and show me where to type the
> requirements in. Can anyone help? I am a newbie =)

This seems like something that is really best done as a web page,
doesn't it?

But if you are really just looking to try your hand at a programming
task, I don't want to spoil your fun ;)  This might not be the best
place to start, a text-only program is usually much easier to start
with.  If you want to try a GUI, I think PythonCard (pythoncard.sf.net)
is exactly the sort of environment that would work well for this.  They
have tutorials and other documentation.

  Ian






From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Jun 24 10:51:50 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:51:50 +0200
Subject: Choosing the right database-system for a small project
References: <uAUJa.1825$os2.25697@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <bd9oik$qo0on$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Thomas Weholt ( PRIVAT ) wrote:

> I've got a rather small project, small in the sense that there's not a lot
> of different tables needed in the database/storage-system, but there will
> be alot of data and the clients must be able to scan thru huge amounts of
> data very fast ( Not serial scanning, but lookups by key, preferrably
> several keys pr record, ie. I need to lookup people both by SSN and by
> first/last-name etc. )

Hi!

Why not use ZODB? The BTrees module gives you a dictionary-like
object which can store your list even when it is bigger than
the available memory.

The drawback is, that you need to pack the database from time to
time if you change objects.

 thomas




From Matthews at heyanita.com  Mon Jun 16 19:44:01 2003
From: Matthews at heyanita.com (Matthew Shomphe)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:44:01 -0700
Subject: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions? (os.chmod() not working properly?)
Message-ID: <8C50918F08A109479D62BAE0F1AB9546D6463F@lionking.HANA>

Gus,

Thanks for the information.  I thought this was the case as well.  However, in the book (below), it says:

----------------------------------------------------
chmod(path, mode)

Changes the mode of path.  mode has the same values as described for the open() function.  UNIX and Windows.
----------------------------------------------------

Beazley could full well be wrong (sorry, David! ;).  In the on-line documentation (http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-file-dir.html) it says:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
chmod(path, mode) 
Change the mode of path to the numeric mode. Availability: Unix, Windows. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, I don't see a description of the values for "mode".  I could only deduce the numeric value required to get read/write permissions by checking the permissions of a file that I knew to be both readable & writable:

=========================
from stat import *
print os.stat('myReadAndWriteFile.txt')[ST_MODE] 
=========================

I can use the numeric value I grabbed from the above output to set permissions.  However, setting permissions using these raw numeric values strikes me as A Bad Thing(TM).  It doesn't make the code portable.  And who knows what Redmond will do in the future?

Let me make my inquiry clearer (I hope):
(1) What are the values expected for the second argument to os.chmod()?
(2) Are these values platform independant?
(3) Is it documented anywhere?

Thanks for your help!

M@

PS.  I'm using python2.3b1



-----Original Message-----
From: Gus Tabares [mailto:gus.tabares at verizon.net]
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 4:30 PM
To: Matthew Shomphe; python-list at python.org
Subject: RE: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions?
(os.chmod() not working properly?)


Matt,

	I do believe os.O_RDWR is specifically for the open() function. Check out
the bottom of this page:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-fd-ops.html



HTH,
Gus

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Matt Shomphe
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 7:18 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions? (os.chmod()
not working properly?)


I noticed an error when trying to change the file permissions for a
file on a Windows (2K) machine.  I'm using David Beazley's excellent
"Python Essential Reference, 2nd. Ed." as a reference.  According to
the book (p. 186 for those following along at home), it should be used
thusly:

import os
os.chmod('myReadOnlyFile.txt', os.O_RDWR)


Where for os.O_RDWR, you could have any of the modes specified on p.
184.  In other words, all the same bitwise-or modes for opening a
file.  What happens with the above code is: nothing at all.  However,
the following code *will* work to change a file to be accessible:

import os
os.chmod('myReadOnlyFile.txt', 33206)

So, either I am using the os.chmod() function incorrectly, or there is
something wrong elsewhere.

Any hints on what's to be done?

M@
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Jun 16 04:54:23 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:54:23 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3eece571$0$49110$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <oX5Ha.116651$3Sm.35400@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3BfHa.95965$pR3.2057696@news1.tin.it>

<posted & mailed>

martin z wrote:

>> You *can* test the types of the arguments yourself, inside
>> the function. But this is regarded bad practice amongst Python
>> programmers, for the above mentioned reasons.
> 
> On this subject, is there a way to test not the specific type, or simply
> the
> protocol an object supports?  String, int, etc.  I want to make a function
> do one thing with a numeric-type object and a different thing with a
> string-type object.

It depends, of course, on what you want "numeric-type" and "string-type"
to mean.  For my purposes, I've found the following very simple "protocol
testing" functions work just fine:

def isStringLike(s):
    try: s+''
    except: return False
    else: return True

def isNumberLike(s):
    try: s+0
    except: return False
    else: return True

I haven't actually used the second one very often; perhaps it might
give problems with e.g. "number-vector" types that let you perform
SOME number-like operations (such as "add a scalar to each item") but
not others.  The first one I use regularly and still find preferable
to e.g. "isinstance(s, basestring)" which doesn't classify as "string
like" such obvious cases as instances of UserString.UserString.

Of course, this overall approach does depend on an underlying
assumption that types are defined "sensibly" -- e.g. that if a type
is string-like enough to let you concatenate its instances to a
string, then it will also be string-like enough from other points
of view.  I have not found that to be a problem in practice.


Alex




From a_salnikov at yahoo.com  Fri Jun  6 16:18:52 2003
From: a_salnikov at yahoo.com (Andy Salnikov)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:18:52 -0700
Subject: Numeric don't compare arrays correctly
References: <3EDFBACD.2090802@wanadoo.es> <yfsbrxbufxn.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <bbqsvg$14j$1@news.Stanford.EDU>

"Alexander Schmolck" <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:yfsbrxbufxn.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk...
> Maurix <maurix78_remove_this_ at wanadoo.es> writes:
>
> > Hi to all,
> > I'm new in python world and in this group too so, nice to meet you all
;-)
> > I have a problem with Numeric: (linux, python2.2, numeric 21.0)
> >
> > It seem that don't compare correctly arrays.
> >
> > See at this session:
> >
> >  >>> a=array([1.1,2.2,3.3,4.4,5.5])
> >  >>> print 2.<a<4.
>
> This is just a python wart, reflecting the unhappy interaction between two
> sometimes convinient but somewhat messy language features.
>
> Feature 1:
>
> a < b < c in most programming languages is the same as (a < b) < c. Python
> instead treats such chained comparisons specially to make them behave as
is
> typical in (the somewhat messy) standard math notation.
>
> So ``1 < 3 < 4`` is False and not True, because it is treated as
> ``1 < 3 and 3 < 4``.
>
  '1 < 3 and 3 < 4' cannot be False like '1 < 3 < 4` (in Python at least).

  Problem is in comparing apples and oranges, objects can be in any order
w.r.t. numbers.

  Andy.





From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Tue Jun 17 20:33:17 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 01:33:17 +0100
Subject: preventing creation of instance
References: <bco6se$frs$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de> <3EEFA09F.43409D6A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <yfsn0gg9qcy.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Mirko Koenig wrote:
> > 
> > I have a class with a 'static' list of names to control if every instance
> > of the class has a different name.
> > 
> > class test:
> >         names = []
> >         def __init__( self, name ):
> >                 ...
> > 
> > Is it possible to chech in init if the given name exists in names and
> > then destroy itself. So that it will be not possible to create an
> > instance of this class, if the given name is existing.
> > 
> > adam = test( "adam" ) # should work
> > eve = test ( "adam" ) #should then not work. eve should be None.
> 
> I believe raising any exception in __init__ is the way to prevent
> the creation of the object.  I don't think you can do this with
> a technique that returns None, unless you are actually calling
> a factory function which internally attempts to create the object
> and catches the exception thrown, returning None if it happens.


>>> class Test(object):
...    def __new__(cls): return None
...
>>> Test()
>>> 

see http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html#__new__

'as



From MK at foo.com  Fri Jun 13 09:46:40 2003
From: MK at foo.com (MK)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:46:40 +0200
Subject: Placing controls, wxWindows
Message-ID: <bcckjp$hpu88$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>

I have problems while placing wxNotebook in a wxPanel.
For the time being I'm using

    self.SetDimensions(0, 0, 1000, 600)

... in my wxNotebook-derived class, but obviously that's
not what I want. If I omit the line above, then my notebook
shrinks to about 100x20 pixels. (I can barely see the tabs!)
Does anybody know how can I have my wxNotebook
adjust its size automatically, relatively to its parent wxPanel?
Thx,

The hierarchy is:

wxFrame
    wxPanel
        wxNotebook







From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jun 26 10:19:53 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:19:53 -0600
Subject: lists and tuples
In-Reply-To: <20030626131817.GA4097@nl.linux.org>; from gerrit@nl.linux.org on Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 03:18:17PM +0200
References: <20030626131817.GA4097@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <20030626081953.A956@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Gerrit Holl:
> one of the things I have never understood in Python was why tuples
> exist. There is a FAQ entry about this:
  [...]
> > As a general guideline, use tuples like you would use structs in C
> > or records in Pascal, use lists like (variable length) arrays.
  [...]
> To make it more confusing, Guido wrote:
> > Tuples are for heterogeneous data, list are for homogeneous data.
> > Tuples are *not* read-only lists.
  [...]
> But this very FAQ entry was also written by Guido van Rossum.
> This FAQ entry does not use tuples for heterogeneous data.

It does, actually, though this use of the term "heterogeneous" can
be confusing.  (I know it confused me when I first read it.)

A couple tests:

Is seq[1:] conceptually the same kind of thing as seq itself?  If
so, seq should be a list; if not, a tuple.

Would it make sense to sort or use max on the sequence?  If so, a
list; if not, a tuple.

Examples:

A list of URLs:  If you chop off the first element, it's still a
list of URLs.  max(listofURLs) gives you the lexicographically
last of the URLs.

The time tuples used by the time module:  If you chop off the
first element, you don't have a time tuple anymore.  Sorting would
be useless, as would max(time.localtime()), both because the items
in the tuple are not conceptually comparable.

This has nothing to do with whether the elements of the sequence
are of heterogeneous types; it has to do with whether their
conceptual roles are heterogeneous.  The FAQ's example -- points
represented as (x, y) tuples -- is heterogeneous in this sense.
Note also that the sentence stating
    tuples : structs :: lists : arrays
(preserved above) reflects the same idea.

> What is the difference between immutable and read-only?

None.  (Well, "immutable" is slightly more precise.  It directly
states the essential point -- object cannot be changed -- without
reference to any notion of "read" and "write" operations.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                   w_w
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      ,-= U
                                                               1 1




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jun  6 16:43:39 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 20:43:39 GMT
Subject: id(a) == id(b) and a is not b --> bug?
References: <mailman.1054855286.16163.python-list@python.org> <m3r867yaxj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bbq5df$9nm$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <bbq68j$93j$1@ginger.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <bbqudr$cfm$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:51:15 +0000 (UTC), Joshua Marshall <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:

>Steve McAllister <nosp at m.needed> wrote:
>>> If any kind of computation is performed in the arguments, the property
>>> you assume may not hold.
>
>> And exactly why is {
>> 'foo' is 'foo' is 'foo' is 'foo'
>> } always true?  This is quite surprising compared to {
>> [] is []
>> } ...
>> Why are not new string literals dynamically created?
>
>Strings are immutable, so the interpreter is free to use these strings
>in multiple places.  It's an optimization--it would also be correct if
>"'foo' is 'foo'" were false.
For some meaning of "correct." IWT old-style string exceptions would break.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From joconnor at nets.com  Wed Jun  4 18:30:11 2003
From: joconnor at nets.com (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:30:11 -0700
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
References: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <20030604.153007.243268139.11567@nets.com>

In article <bbl8b5$1uso$1 at biggoron.nerim.net>, "Aur?lien G?ron"
<ageron at hohohohovideotron.ca> wrote:

> I'm sure beginners would come to love Python even faster if they could
> truly create their first GUI in minutes.  I'm voting for wxPython to
> replace Tk in the future Python distribution.
> 
> Any comments on this ? Anyone else want to vote ?

I had such a bad experience using TCL on one job that I rufuse to use Tk,
simply because of the association :)


-- 
Jay O'Connor
http://www.r4h-music.com

"God Himself plays the bass strings first,
when He tunes the soul"



From mike at nospam.com  Wed Jun 25 19:40:40 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:40:40 -0700
Subject: parsers / lexers usable from Python and Java (and C++/C)?
References: <87brwnb1ay.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1056494684.30523.python-list@python.org> <87of0m8k60.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bddbta$rtg$1@main.gmane.org>

John J. Lee wrote:
> "Mike Rovner" <mike at nospam.com> writes:
>
>> John J. Lee wrote:
>>> Are there any parser / lexer generators useable from both CPython
>>> and Java?
>>
>> PLY (http://systems.cs.uchicago.edu/ply/) implemented entirely in
>> Python, so it might be possible to use it from both implementations
>> of Python.
>
> No, I really did mean CPython and Java, not CPython and Jython.

Your goal is a little vague for me. Jython IS java.

> ... wrapping C++ (even generated C++) in an
> automated way without pain seems unlikely.

Take a look at boost.python pyste.

Mike







From rolf.herter at web.de  Tue Jun  3 16:33:26 2003
From: rolf.herter at web.de (Rolf Herter)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 22:33:26 +0200
Subject: PIL textfont
Message-ID: <bbirns$3lj$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

Hello

I try to create text with PIL, but I can't find the PILfonts or an 
fontdirectory that works with PIL

Maybe someone has an idea
thanks
-- 
Rolf Herter



From kendear at nospam.com  Wed Jun 18 00:50:24 2003
From: kendear at nospam.com (Kendear)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 04:50:24 GMT
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com>
Message-ID: <3EEFEF90.4000703@nospam.com>

Kendear wrote:
> 
> i hope to define a dictionary this way:
> 
> lst = """
> a    1
> foo  3
> bar  234
> joe  321
> """
> 
> lst = lst.split()
> 
> now lst refers to  ['a', '1', 'foo', '3', 'bar', '234', 'joe', '321']
> i want to do something like
> 
> dict = {}
> for key, value in lst:
>     dict[key] = eval(value)
> 
> 
> but key, value is not for taking 2
> items at a time, but take a tuple
> and unpacking it...
> 
> is there a way for the "for"
> to take 2 items at a time?
> 
> or is there a more common way to define a dictionary
> without all the punctuation marks?


of course, it can be done as

for i in range(0, len(lst), 2):
     dict[lst[i]] = eval(lst[i+1])

but is a little messy... is there a cleaner way?




From ed at membled.com  Mon Jun  9 02:48:20 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 07:48:20 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org> <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055032157.24538.python-list@python.org> <l1el24hmex.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055088916.4391.python-list@python.org> <l1ptlofcz3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3u1b0uoxa.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <l17k7vg30r.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) writes:

>As a starting point, you should observe that the current Python
>parser is a LL(1) parser.

Hmm, I worry that my proposal requires more than one token of
lookahead, and so would not be implementable with the current parser.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From sebastian.tusk at silver-style.com  Mon Jun 23 10:40:24 2003
From: sebastian.tusk at silver-style.com (Sebastian Tusk)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:40:24 +0200
Subject: memory leak "import random"
Message-ID: <009b01c33995$6628dc10$5000a8c0@codersebastian>

Hi,

i have a problem with the following code snippet.

#include "Python.h" // python 2.2.3

int main( int argc, void** argv )
{
        while(1) {
                Py_Initialize();

                if(PyRun_SimpleString( "import string" )) {
                        return -1;
                }

                Py_Finalize();
        }

        return 0;
}

It seems that there is a memory leak as the reserved memory grows eternally.
Do i have something wrong or is this a known issue.

Regards,
Sebastian





From nosp at m.needed  Thu Jun 26 10:00:57 2003
From: nosp at m.needed (Steve McAllister)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:00:57 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to write a Audio CD Player by using python only?
In-Reply-To: <bdespa$rku$1@news.seed.net.tw>
References: <bdespa$rku$1@news.seed.net.tw>
Message-ID: <bdeufh$nmb$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr>

> Is it possible to write a Audio CD Player by using python only?

Of course.  But ...  shall you reinvent the powder?  Cannot you 
simply interface, for instance, libcdaudio?




From andy47 at halfcooked.com  Thu Jun  5 06:02:11 2003
From: andy47 at halfcooked.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:02:11 +0100
Subject: Updating SQL table problems with python
In-Reply-To: <3eddacbe$0$31519$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
References: <3eddac41$0$31519$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au> <3eddacbe$0$31519$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <bbn4cn$ibg$1@main.gmane.org>

DJ wrote:

> Realised when posting this that title value is misspelt
> That was not the error though :)
> 
> "DJ" <dj3000 at iinet.net.au.nospam> wrote in message
> news:3eddac41$0$31519$5a62ac22 at freenews.iinet.net.au...
> 
>>Hi there,
>>
>>I get a Syntax error from this following SQL statement:
>>
>>file_open = urllib.urlopen(url)
>>xmldoc = minidom.parse(file_open)
>>file_open.close()
>>blah = xmldoc.toxml()
>>title = minidom.parseStrin(blah).getElementsByTagNam('title')
>>
>>connection = gadfly.gadfly("portal", "dbase")
>>cursor = connection.cursor()
>>for x in title:
>>        j = x.firstChild.data
>>        j = j.encode('ascii', 'replace')
>>        cursor.execute("update items set title = '%s' where title =
> 
> 'Title'"
> 
>>% j)
>>        connection.commit()
>>
>>As you can tell, im parsing a xml RSS feed and updating items table. Im
>>trying to replace
>>default value of 'Title' with the title from the RSS feed.
>>The update statement is givng me the syntax error
>>I cant see whats wrong
>>
>>Need some help
>>Thanks in advance
>>Adam
>>
> 

What error message are you getting? The only thing that I can see which 
*might* be causing you trouble is your use of the 'format' paramstyle 
rather than the prescribed 'qmark' style.

If you change your execute statement to;

     cursor.execute("update items set title=? where title='Title'", (j,))

You may get a different outcome.

For a definition of the different paramstyles, check the DB-API 
specification at http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0249.html

For a description of how to use dynamic values in Gadfly, see 
http://gadfly.sourceforge.net/gadfly.html#dynamic-values

Regards,
Andy






From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun 18 11:38:47 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:38:47 -0600
Subject: "Invert" regular expression matching
In-Reply-To: <3e1d17c2.0306170321.d90c573@posting.google.com>; from martink@cnb.uam.es on Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 04:21:26AM -0700
References: <3e1d17c2.0306170321.d90c573@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030618093847.C637@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Martin Krallinger:
> I would be pleased  if anyone has allready developed a python
> program / module to "invert" regular expressions.
  [...]
> , (which )?(is )?required (for|to|in)
  [...]
> , which is required for
> , is required for
> , which is required in
> etc,.........
  [...]

I don't know of anything which does exactly that, but you might be
able to adapt Jeff Epler's Novelwriting tool to your purposes:
    <http://unpythonic.net/~jepler/novelwriting/index.html>
(It generates random text matching a user-specified grammar.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
Every public frenzy produces legislation purporting to address it.
                                                  (Kinsley's Law)




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jun 17 08:40:50 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:40:50 -0500
Subject: analyzing lock contention in multi-threaded app?
Message-ID: <16111.3154.71808.325818@montanaro.dyndns.org>

I was reading the PEP 319 thread on python-dev yesterday and a question
popped into my brain with recurs (to me) from time-to-time.  Is there a
decent way to analyze a multi-threaded app for lock contention?  Let me make
this more concrete.  I have an XML-RPC server which contains a handful of
threading.RLock objects to protect shared data and one Queue.Queue object
with a max size of 5 which maintains a pool of database connections.  All my
acquire() and get() calls are of the blocking variety.  Is there some way to
reasonably monitor lock contention?  I currently have a method which returns
lock status:

    def get_lock_info(self):
        return {
            'query_lock': self.query_lock._RLock__block.locked(),
            'sql_lock': self.sql_lock._RLock__block.locked(),
            'namemap_lock': self.namemap_lock._RLock__block.locked(),
            'top_50_lock': self.top_50_lock._RLock__block.locked(),
            'log_lock': self.log_lock._RLock__block.locked(),
            'conn_pool': self.conn_pool.empty(),
            'dump_lock': self.dump_lock._RLock__block.locked(),
            }

Since it doesn't lock anything itself, it is guaranteed to not block.  (Of
course, it might occasionally return incorrect data as well, but I'm hoping
to examine trends.)  I have a little script which executes the above call
periodically and tells me if a lock is locked or the queue is empty.  While
useful to a certain degree, it doesn't tell me if any other acquire() or
get() calls have blocked.  What other techniques are available to monitor
the lock contention of their multi-threaded apps?

Thx,

Skip




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Jun 26 09:18:17 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:18:17 +0200
Subject: lists and tuples
Message-ID: <20030626131817.GA4097@nl.linux.org>

Hi,

one of the things I have never understood in Python was why tuples
exist. There is a FAQ entry about this:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq06.015.htp

This says:
> This is done so that tuples can be immutable while lists are mutable.
>
> Immutable tuples are useful in situations where you need to pass a few items to a function and don't want the function to modify the tuple; for example,
>
>    point1 = (120, 140)
>    point2 = (200, 300)
>    record(point1, point2)
>    draw(point1, point2)
>
> You don't want to have to think about what would happen if record() changed the coordinates -- it can't, because the tuples are immutable.
>
> On the other hand, when creating large lists dynamically, it is absolutely crucial that they are mutable -- adding elements to a tuple one by one requires using the concatenation operator, which makes it quadratic in time.
>
> As a general guideline, use tuples like you would use structs in C or records in Pascal, use lists like (variable length) arrays.

I don't really understand this. In this example, record() probably refers
to an arbitrary function. But I would think that a programmer knows what
such a function is doing... If record or draw changes its arguments, it
should be documented as such: and passing a read-only object won't solve
the problem because the code will raise an exception then.

To make it more confusing, Guido wrote:
> Tuples are for heterogeneous data, list are for homogeneous data.
> Tuples are *not* read-only lists.

...and:
> I've been saying this for years whenever people would listen

But this very FAQ entry was also written by Guido van Rossum.
This FAQ entry does not use tuples for heterogeneous data.
What is the difference between immutable and read-only?

The performance issue would be solved by a .readonly() method
or similar: like sets have.

I don't understand. I really don't understand.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
243. As rent of herd cattle he shall pay three gur of corn to the
owner.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Jun 18 04:22:06 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:22:06 GMT
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com> <3EEFEF90.4000703@nospam.com> <xrSHa.976224$OV.1079453@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <OiVHa.105930$pR3.2320405@news1.tin.it>

Bryan wrote:
   ...
> dict(zip(lst[0::2], map(eval, lst[1::2])))

Note: 2.3 only -- lists didn't support extended-slicing in Python 2.2.

> also, i don't think it's a good idea to use dict as a variable name since
> dict is a python type.

Very good advice!  If you use dict as a local name, you shadow the
buit-in name 'dict' and therefore cannot any more call it e.g. in
order to generate a new dictionary, as above.


Alex




From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Tue Jun 10 16:36:28 2003
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 22:36:28 +0200
Subject: win32all  : msaccess example
References: <bc5dr6$20m$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <877k7t7jqr.fsf@flibuste.net>

"Federico" <maschio_77 at hotmail.com> writes:

> Please can someone give me an example on how to have and modify msaccess
> data?
You'll find examples in the unitest of http://adodbapi.sourceforge.net/

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Jun  1 15:19:55 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 15:19:55 -0400
Subject: Defensive programming
In-Reply-To: <87k7c5of76.fsf@acooke.org>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEJGEIAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[andrew cooke]
> i suppose the best idea would be to read the papers...

Yes <wink>.

> ...without doing so, i would guess that they advocate using one-way
> hashes (like those used in cryptography) so that it is difficult to
> find a text that gives a specific hash.

Nope, they advocate picking a *different*-- but still cheap --hash function
every time the program starts.  General ways to do this have been studied
extensively, under the general name "universal hashing", starting about 20
years ago.  Picking a new hash function requires a little crypto-strength
randomness at the start, so that the hash function being used can't be
guessed from, e.g., the time the program started.

I advocate using app-appropriate data structures instead (e.g., many mapping
gimmicks have worst-case log-time behavior on insertion and lookup, and
aren't vulnerable to any set of keys; OTOH, with very rare exceptions they
have much worse expected-case behavior than hash tables -- pick your poison
based on what's fatal to your app).





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun 10 11:23:01 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:23:01 -0600
Subject: Factorials
In-Reply-To: <84fc4588.0306100413.1125d1ee@posting.google.com>; from pythonguy@Hotpop.com on Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 05:13:46AM -0700
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <bbsq5k$r9j$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <84fc4588.0306100413.1125d1ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030610092301.D374@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Anand Pillai:
  [...]
> def fac1(x): return reduce(lambda x, y: x*y, (range(x+1))[1:])

Note that you can skip the slice by calling range appropriately:
    range(x+1)[1:] == range(1, x+1)

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "[W]e must be very careful when we give advice
staschuk at telusplanet.net    to younger people: sometimes they follow it!"
                             -- "The Humble Programmer", Edsger Dijkstra




From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Thu Jun  5 07:55:17 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 04:55:17 -0700
Subject: Help with dictionary
References: <9afd3f36.0306042301.5243a9e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0306050355.1454a1ff@posting.google.com>

I dont get what you mean by 'sorting' a dictionary.
You can sort a list or an array because there is a specific
order in these structures. But I dont see any point in trying
to sort a dictionary. 

The following code will give you a list with the keys
sorted as you need it:

d={(1, (21353, 21418)): 3900, (2, (53006, 53164)): 3800, (0, (19697,
19763)): 4100}

newd=d.keys()
l=list(newd)
l.sort()

lnew=[]
for key in l:
    lnew.append((key,d[key]))

print lnew

# You get the output 
[((0, (19697, 19763)), 4100), ((1, (21353, 21418)), 3900), ((2,
(53006, 53164)), 3800)]

Now if you try to get the dictionary of this, "logically" you should
expect

{(0, (19697, 19763)): 4100, (1, (21353, 21418)): 3900, (2, (53006,
 53164)): 3800}

But what you get is,
print dict(lnew)

{(0, (19697, 19763)): 4100, (2, (53006, 53164)): 3800, (1, (21353,
21418)): 3900}

I dont see any point in trying to spend time over this problem.
Instead
use the sorted list for your purposes and finally create the
dictionary
using dict() if you want the keys sorted.

If there was any need for a 'sorted dictionary' the language designers
would have provided that. 

Anand Pillai

iamshady at rediffmail.com (Jim Shady) wrote in message news:<9afd3f36.0306042301.5243a9e8 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
> 
> I have a dictionary of the sort:
> 
> {(1, (21353, 21418)): 3900, (2, (53006, 53164)): 3800, (0, (19697,
> 19763)): 4100}
> 
> I need to re-sort this dictionary with the first element of the tuple
> in the keys. A sorted dictionary of the above would be:
> 
> {(0, (19697, 19763)): 4100, (1, (21353, 21418)): 3900, (2, (53006,
> 53164)): 3800}
> 
> Could somebody help me with the algorithm/logic to accomplish this?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Jim



From stevesusenet at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 18 21:27:10 2003
From: stevesusenet at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 18:27:10 -0700
Subject: Is python good for making database work short?
Message-ID: <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095@posting.google.com>

Hi;

Today at work I got an impressive demonstration.

There was a database mess that had to be cleaned up fast.

One part of the problem involved copying tables from one database on
one server, to another database on another server.

To do it in Java would have been a bazillion lines of code.

I would have had to written code to:

1. connect to the parent database
2. a sql statement to get the data
3. intermediarly store the results
4. close the parent connection
5. open the connection to the child database
6. a sql statement with 50 column names to create a blank table
7. code to transfer the stored data into the new table
8. close the connection

A coworker who is a foxpro nut did all of this in about 3 lines of
code.

I was very impressed, and I plan to learn foxpro since the job has
legacy apps written in it.

However I was wondering if python could have made this job this easy. 
Does python make manipulating databases and data short work?

Part of the program we had to make also required doing many queries to
check the integrity of the data, and if it wasn't kosher, store the
bad data to a table for examination later.  In foxpro it was one line
of code to save the query into a table.  In java it would have been
another trek like the one I described above.

Java is great for a lot of stuff, but the jdbc is basically just a
pipe into the database to pass sql through with a lot of gymnastics to
get the sql into, massaged and out of the pipe.

Anyway, I would love to have an open source, multiplatform tool that
could match foxpro in ease of database manipulation.

Is python it?

Steve



From 2002 at weholt.org  Tue Jun 17 09:55:58 2003
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt ( PRIVAT ))
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:55:58 +0200
Subject: The beauty of Python
References: <yrEHa.7094$Hb.127911@news4.e.nsc.no> <UxEHa.72090$4_1.16936489@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <R5FHa.7104$Hb.128118@news4.e.nsc.no>

Well, I was hoping for smaller examples, not too advanced things, more stuff
you'll find in any programming language, stuff python has solved in a
particulary elegant way.

I got Python Cookbook and look thru it to see if I find anything fitting my
requirements. Thanks.

Thomas



"Max Khesin" <max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com> wrote in message
news:UxEHa.72090$4_1.16936489 at twister.nyc.rr.com...
> how about activestate.com 's python cookbook - lots of great and prectical
> examples there!
>
> --
> ========================================
> Max Khesin, software developer -
> max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
> [check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com,
JBIG2-PDF
> compression @
> www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]
>
>
> "Thomas Weholt ( PRIVAT )" <2002 at weholt.org> wrote in message
> news:yrEHa.7094$Hb.127911 at news4.e.nsc.no...
> > I'm trying to promote Python as an elegant, easy-to-read and intuitive
> > language at work and to my programming-buddies. I thought it would be
nice
> > to have a webpage with examples of the beauty of Python, showing small
> > snippets of code solving real-world problems or tasks. If anybody has
any
> > such examples to offer, I'd be very gratefull. And if it turns out to be
> any
> > interest for this in this group, I'll collect the source-snippets and
put
> > them on the net.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Thomas Weholt
> >
> >
>
>





From donn at drizzle.com  Fri Jun 20 00:55:55 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:55:55 -0000
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <bcre27$mci8i$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <1056084953.994309@yasure>

Quoth "Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com>:
| David Abrahams wrote:
|> I don't have any first-hand experience, but the experience of friends
|> of mine who have used Haskell is that it can be exceedingly difficult
|> to locate the source of a type error when it does occur, since the
|> inference engine may propagate the "wrong" type back much further than
|> the source of the error.
|
| I played with HUGS intensively for a while some time back,
| and I can attest that this is indeed a problem. I was led
| to the conclusion that the only way to retain my sanity
| was to provide an explicit type declaration for every
| function.
|
| This has two benefits -- it helps the compiler catch
| type errors early enough to actually give you a useful
| error message, and it helps to document the code.
|
| But if you're doing that, you don't get much benefit
| from type inference, raising the question of whether it's
| worth the effort of designing a compiler that can do it
| at all.

There's a huge difference between optional type annotation
and a system that requires you to declare the type of every
single thing.  The latter is a big nuisance, and far from
helping to document the code it buries the sense of what the
function is doing in a lot of trivia about its parts.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From maschio_77 at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 10 16:13:44 2003
From: maschio_77 at hotmail.com (Federico)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:13:44 +0200
Subject: win32all  : msaccess example
Message-ID: <bc5dr6$20m$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

Please can someone give me an example on how to have and modify msaccess
data?
Thanks





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Jun 21 19:09:08 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 19:09:08 -0400
Subject: Is o.__dict__ = {}  valid?
References: <vf9ohelotr7a4a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bd2oik$dae$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <vf9ohelotr7a4a at corp.supernews.com>,
Edward K. Ream <edreamleo at charter.net> wrote:
>
>3. If o.__dict__ = {} is not valid, is there any standard way to get the
>same effect quickly?

o.__dict__.clear()
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From pxtl at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  9 11:10:27 2003
From: pxtl at hotmail.com (martin z)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 15:10:27 GMT
Subject: Call a Python file with parameters
Message-ID: <Dr1Fa.38532$j9%.18920@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

I've asked this before, but last time I was too vague.  So, I've got a
simpler request: I want to write and call Python files as if they were
functions.  The problem is simple: if you write a Python file with only a
def-statement, you don't get a file you can run with arguments - you get a
file that builds a function.  If you use the argc and argv syntax, you get a
file you can run with arguments, but the arguments are strings.   Basically,
I want to have a Python file that, when I compile it, I get nothing but a
function, or something I can use like a function, that I can shove a
parameter tuple into.  Instead I get a code object (no argument tuple) or a
module (containing functions).

Can anyone help?





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jun  6 22:11:59 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 22:11:59 -0400
Subject: Postfix/Prefix Operators (++,--)
References: <mailman.1054878191.16140.python-list@python.org> <3EE05E36.40DF739F@engcorp.com> <bbq415$om3$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <3EE0B4D5.736EE894@engcorp.com> <bbqe21$l2h$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <3EE0D19C.7D7FFCA0@engcorp.com> <ve2a7urdcqjbfb@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3EE149EF.73C7373F@engcorp.com>

John Roth wrote:
> 
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> news:3EE0D19C.7D7FFCA0 at engcorp.com...
> > Joshua Marshall wrote:
> > >   >>> c = 1
> > >   >>> a = c++
> > >   >>> a
> > >   1
> > >   >>> c
> > >   2
> >
> > Except that that violates a fundamental aspect of Python, which while
> > I can't describe it in the best technical terms as I don't ever work
> > at the compiler level, could be said as "you are rebinding a name (c)
> > without using an assignment statement".  
> 
> Well, let's see. The "def", "class" and "import" statements all (re)bind
> names. So do several of the builtin functions (setattr() comes to mind
> immediately.)

I figured my inability to use the proper technical terms would cause
trouble.  I think Joshua has the best perspective: the fundamental
aspect of Python which is being violated here is that of not rebinding
things in an expression.  The examples you give are not expressions so
I think they still fit in the Python mould.  I'll comment on Joshua's
exception in a response to his message...

-Peter



From m at moshez.org  Mon Jun  2 13:34:39 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 17:34:39 -0000
Subject: Blogging Software
In-Reply-To: <bbftr6$e0j$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>
References: <bbftr6$e0j$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <20030602173439.21700.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On 2 Jun 2003, ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong) wrote:

> Which others are there, please? Is there a website or three that lists
> these?

There's pybloxsom, and also
http://moshez.org/discuss/software.html
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From mail at manuelmgarcia.com  Sun Jun 15 23:52:10 2003
From: mail at manuelmgarcia.com (Manuel M Garcia)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 03:52:10 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <safqevk2nn9c11322sa1vbrni322eja1d4@4ax.com>

Bruce Eckel wrote about shifting your programming mindset from 'strong
typing' to 'strong testing'

http://mindview.net/WebLog/log-0025

Manuel



From pythonidae_olivaceous at hotmail.com  Sun Jun  8 21:54:26 2003
From: pythonidae_olivaceous at hotmail.com (Ben Minton)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 01:54:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Newbie Question re Python 2.2.2 WIN
References: <Xns9394A2EFE7E51pythonidaeunderscore@203.220.9.230> <Xns9394A8AABA933abc@194.106.32.13>
Message-ID: <Xns9395748B5A2D0pythonidaeunderscore@203.220.9.230>

a <a at b.c> wrote in news:Xns9394A8AABA933abc at 194.106.32.13:

> http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
> 

thanks sfb ... i thought that might be the case, but wasn't sure. 
at the python shell .... with the >>> what is the command to bring run an 
python script, say my_first_script.py?

Is there another way, perhaps just going into the folder where the scripts 
are stored and clinking on the file name while, the python engine is 
running?

cheers, Ben



From ellisonh at prodigy.net  Sun Jun  8 19:49:32 2003
From: ellisonh at prodigy.net (Homer Ellison)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:49:32 -0700
Subject: Strange problem with notebook computer
Message-ID: <001401c32e18$9c123e80$afee7b43@homer3cq9tc2v2>

Hello,
 
I'm new to Python (and many years out of programming until now). I'm
having a strange problem as I program and troubleshoot Python on my
notebook computer. Often when I am troubleshooting code, the mouse
pointer freezes. Sometimes even the keyboard freezes. The problem
persists when I reboot. The only way I have found to be able to stop the
problem is to turn it off and unplug it; remove the battery and floppy
drive modules (this may not be necessary); remove the cover over the
memory card; let the system cool down; and put it back together and
start up again. I do not have this problem when I'm running other
software, only Python. Is there a possibility that somehow Python or the
code I'm writing in Python is causing my notebook computer to overheat?
I can't imagine why this would be, but I can't figure out what else
might be causing the problem. Any ideas?
 
Thank you,
Homer
 
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From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Fri Jun 13 14:39:19 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:39:19 -0600
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
In-Reply-To: <h56iev8mshj7gs21ja47ov4ctmqldnhilf@4ax.com>; from news@manuelmgarcia.com on Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 12:28:11AM +0000
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com> <84fc4588.0306112339.10a4012b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055460443.2394.python-list@python.org> <h56iev8mshj7gs21ja47ov4ctmqldnhilf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030613123919.B1448@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Manuel Garcia:
  [...]
> I shouldn't feed a troll, but this reply is just too delicious.  The
> author claims the code is unobfuscated, [...]

In fact, I wrote: "while it is obfuscated, it is not very
artistically obfuscated".

> [...] but the nature of how all 5000
> digits are kept accurate are obfuscated from him.

Indeed, perhaps you concealed how the error control works more
cleverly than you concealed how everything else works.

That *I* don't understand the error control, however, is hardly
compelling evidence that it is cleverly obfuscated; rather, it is
evidence that I am ignorant of numerical analysis, as admitted in
my review.

  [...]
-- 
Steven Taschuk             "The world will end if you get this wrong."
staschuk at telusplanet.net     -- "Typesetting Mathematics -- User's Guide",
                                 Brian Kernighan and Lorrinda Cherry




From matthew.rapoport at accenture.com  Wed Jun  4 10:21:36 2003
From: matthew.rapoport at accenture.com (Matt Rapoport)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 07:21:36 -0700
Subject: Passing an Event from a Thread to its Caller
References: <4150f6c8.0306021120.7b70d981@posting.google.com> <xQUCa.3253$7E.37896@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <4150f6c8.0306030833.2dd4fc9b@posting.google.com> <wZ9Da.4067$7E.46779@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <4150f6c8.0306040621.14a28c3d@posting.google.com>

> Why not simply have your thread log the error?
> 

Argg, I hate it when I over-complicate things.  Thanks for the help
Mark.  And thanks in general for the win32 extensions!



From ahaas at airmail.net  Tue Jun  3 17:03:14 2003
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:03:14 -0500
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] Seventh development release of PythonCAD available
Message-ID: <20030603210314.GN663@artsapartment.org>

I'd like to announce the seventh development release of PythonCAD,
a CAD package for open-source software users. As the name implies,
PythonCAD is written entirely in Python. The goal of this project is
to create a fully scriptable drafting program that will match and eventually
exceed features found in commercial CAD software. PythonCAD is released
under the GNU Public License (GPL).

PythonCAD requires Python 2.2. The interface is GTK 2.0 based,
and uses the PyGTK module for interfacing to GTK. The design of
PythonCAD is built around the idea of separating the interface
from the back end as much as possible. By doing this, it is hoped
that both GNOME and KDE interfaces can be added to PythonCAD through
usage of the appropriate Python module. Addition of other interfaces
will depend on the availability of a Python module for that particular
interface and developer interest and action.

The seventh release adds the ability to draw tangent construction circles
against one or two other construction objects, and the ability to easily
draw a construction line tangent to two construction circles. The drawing
of parallel construction lines has been simplified with the addition of
a menu choice for doing this task. There are numerous internal code
cleanups and revisions, and a large number of changes that moved more
code into the interface neutral code directory. These code changes will
hopefully make it easier for developers to add new interfaces to PythonCAD.
Many bug fixes and code improvements have been added as well.

PythonCAD now also has the first iteration of a command interpreter thanks
to the work of David Broadwell. Future releases of PythonCAD will build
on the work he has contributed to make it easier to use PythonCAD by typing
commands in the entry field at the bottom of the screen.

Between the sixth and seventh release a mailing list for developing and
using PythonCAD has been set up thanks to Barry Warsaw. The mailing list
home is found at:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythoncad

This page has instructions for joining the mailing list and web archives
of the list postings.

I'd like to publicly acknowledge and thank the developers and maintainers
of PyChecker for the work they've done in developing this most useful
tool. PyChecker is an effective tool for identifying errors in Python
code, and I've been using it more and more. PyChecker gets a big recommendation
from me and so I say thank you to the people who make it available.

http://pychecker.sourceforge.net/

Visit the PythonCAD web site for more information about what PythonCAD
does and aims to be:

http://www.pythoncad.org/

Come and join me in developing PythonCAD into a world class drafting
program!

Art Haas
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822




From bdeck at lycos.co.uk  Wed Jun  4 07:13:35 2003
From: bdeck at lycos.co.uk (deckerben)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:13:35 +0200
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
Message-ID: <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Greetings!

Which web server software would be more appropriate for a DOS (long filename
enabled) environment? I have seen 4suite and Twisted. Twisted seems to offer
a lot of other networking tools (like telnet and news services) but some of
the admin parts require GTK :-( 4Suite runs already except for the manager,
which requires threads. 4Suite also seems to have more comprehensive XML
tools, which I like.

Ben





From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Jun 11 04:59:35 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:59:35 +1000
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
In-Reply-To: <20030611013918.GA2113@frobozz>
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <20030610142845.4540.qmail@green.zadka.com> <20030611013918.GA2113@frobozz>
Message-ID: <20030611085935.GG2113@frobozz>

On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 11:39:18AM +1000, Andrew Bennetts wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 02:28:45PM -0000, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> > 
> > Wouldn't it be more readable (:)) if you did
> > 
> > class _EvilProperty(type):
> >     ....
> > class EvilProperty:
> >     __metaclass__ = _EvilProperty
> > 
> > class C(object):
> >     class x(EvilProperty):
> >         def get(self):
> [...etc...]
> 
> No, it wouldn't be more readable, because it wouldn't work...

But this would:

----
class _EvilProperty(type):
    def __new__(cls, name, bases, d):
        if d.get('__metaclass__') == _EvilProperty:
            return type.__new__(cls, name, bases, d)
        else:
            return property(d.get('get'), d.get('set'), d.get('del'),
                            d.get('__doc__'))

class EvilProperty:
    __metaclass__ = _EvilProperty

class C(object):
    class x(EvilProperty):
        """An evil test property"""
        def get(self):
            print 'Getting'
            return 1
        def set(self, value):
            print 'Setting to', value
            
c = C()
print c.x
c.x = 5  
print C.x.__doc__
----

:)

Ta-da!  Easy, clean-looking properties, no new syntax required ;)

-Andrew.





From icarroll at pobox.com  Thu Jun 26 23:25:53 2003
From: icarroll at pobox.com (W Isaac Carroll)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:25:53 -0700
Subject: List of lists
References: <ekNKa.66745$Io.6262503@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <slrnbfn9oe.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <MFOKa.66866$Io.6273817@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3EFBB941.8000307@pobox.com>

Mike wrote:
> Ok, I'm doin an exercise and I need to expand on test.py. I'm pretty much
> done with the exercise except I need to print out the questions and answers
> that are in the function.
> 
> here is the snippet:
> 
> def get_questions():
>     return [["What color is the daytime sky on a clear day?","blue"],\
>                ["What is the answer to life, the universe and
> everything?","42"],\
>                ["What is a three letter word for mouse trap?","cat"]]
> 
> How do I get the lists from this?

     questions = get_questions()
     print questions[0][0]   # print first question (color of sky)
     print questions[0][1]   # print first answer ("blue")

TTFN





From akineko at pacbell.net  Wed Jun  4 01:10:04 2003
From: akineko at pacbell.net (Aki Niimura)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 22:10:04 -0700
Subject: TkInter/McMillan installer question.
Message-ID: <b714b8de.0306032110.378de36c@posting.google.com>

Hello everyone,

I'm trying to create a MS-Windows executable from my Python Tkinter
script using McMillan Installer script.

It worked very nicely. I was very amazed as I had so many disappointments
with Python/Windows environment.

However, I tried to assign a icon file using --icon file.ico option. It
didn't honor the option.
Using --debug option, I found the following message:
ignoring icon and version resources = platform not capable

I'm creating the exe file under Windows XP Home (with Cygwin).

Did anybody suceed to use --icon option under Windows XP?
If the Installer cannot assign the icon, is there any way to assign
the icon afterward?

Any suggestions, comments are highly appreciated.

Best regards,
Aki Niimura



From jerf at jerf.org  Tue Jun 10 23:37:42 2003
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 03:37:42 GMT
Subject: unittest: Dynamically creating tests
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.11.23.37.20.424513@jerf.org>

I have some code that has 16 possible ways of executing (four binary
parameters). The parameters are such that I can relatively easily write a
test file that will generate 16 tests to test each combination, for
complete coverage of all the space. (I'm enjoying the meta-ness of this
because I may personally only use 3 or 4 of the combinations, but in
theory all 16 are potentially useful. By carefully writing my tests I can
ensure they all work with reasonable probability and much less then 16
times the effort.)

My problem is that I'm having trouble writing the tests in such a way that
they execute. Consider the following simplified code that demonstrates
what I am trying to do:

-------------------

import unittest

tests = unittest.TestSuite()

for i in range(5):
    class NextTest(unittest.TestCase):
        def testEquality(self):
            self.assert_(1 == 1)

    tests.addTest(NextTest)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    unittest.main()

-------------------

I can't seem to figure out how to get this to do what I want to do, which
is run the 5 tests in the subsequent NextTest classes that are created.

The code above would be ideal if it worked, but it only runs the last
instance of the NextTest and ignores the "tests" test suite, which is less
then ideal.

I also tried ending the file with

-------------------

if __name__ == '__main__':
    tr = unittest.TestResult()
    tests.run(tr)

-------------------

but that results in

-------------------

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "testtest.py", line 18, in ?
    tests.run(tr)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/unittest.py", line 339, in run
    return self(result)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/unittest.py", line 345, in __call__
    test(result)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/unittest.py", line 155, in __init__
    testMethod = getattr(self, methodName)
TypeError: attribute name must be string

-------------------

which doesn't make much sense to me.

My requirement is that the test classes can be generated dynamically; I
really don't care how they are aggregated or how they are run, as long as
they *are* run. Does anybody know the best way to do this?


(On a side note, is there a way to programmatically add something to the
*current* module, while it's being created? I tried adding the classes w/
different names into the current module space, which would probably be a
solution to this problem, but I couldn't figure out how. I'm looking for
something like 

setattr(__module__, name, obj)

Starting the file off with "import filename", where filename was the name
of the file, seemed promising but did not actually work; it seems there's
a seperate module object created when that is hit which is later
overwritten by the real "filename" module when Python is done creating
it.)




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jun 12 17:43:17 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:43:17 -0500
Subject: Bug in v1.5.2 Websucker GUI?
In-Reply-To: <bcaqmd$eo9$1@news.hccnet.nl>
References: <7isqqi$8ki@vern.bga.com>
        <bc88g9$2uv$1@news.hccnet.nl>
        <bc9ckd$mb5$1@news.hccnet.nl>
        <bcajpg$9cn$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>
        <bcaqmd$eo9$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <16104.62453.153275.971509@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Anton> Thanks for pointing me to that page. However I don't like it
    Anton> (understatement deleted).

    Anton> a) "SourceForge will not allow you to submit a new bug report
    Anton>    unless you're logged in. "

    Anton> Then why is Python bugtracking hosted on that site?

This has nothing to do with SourceForge.  It's a policy decision which was
made by those of us who actively work on the Python code base.  You used to
be able to submit bug reports anonymously, but many people submitted
incomplete reports without leaving any contact information.  There was no
way to get back in touch with these people to get the rest of the
information needed to reproduce and/or correct the bug (what version of
Python? what platform? test case? etc.).  The only thing we could do was
hope that someone could reproduce the bug and embellish the report or add a
comment to the report asking for more input and hope that the original
submitter revisited the report on his own later.  Since the posting was
anonymous he'd never be notified by email that a comment had been attached
to his bug report.  If such a bug report languished, after several months of
silence there was no choice but to close the bug.

By requiring you to login to SourceForge, we can get back to you if we need
more information.

    Anton> b) If I want to save the page to my harddisk for future reference
    Anton>    it makes my explorer crash because of some illegal operation.

That sounds like a bug with Internet Explorer.  Try another browser.

    Anton> c) If want to browse the bug reports by date descending, I get an
    Anton>    error "The page cannot be displayed".

That may be a SourceForge bug.  You should submit a bug report to them.
Don't submit it to the Python bug tracker.  We don't fix the SF code.

    Anton> d) There's a trick to still save a page: View the page as
    Anton>    "source", then save it from notepad with ending html. If I do
    Anton>    this and later open the page when I'm offline, I get an error
    Anton>    like: "no access to \\sfads.osdn.com\7.html" .

It's always nice to have a workaround.

Skip




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jun  3 20:51:50 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 20:51:50 -0400
Subject: calldll
References: <efe87e6e.0306031544.7a6bcbc4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EDD42A6.3D45B60E@engcorp.com>

Vincent L wrote:
> 
> I'm searching for the python binary module "calldll.pyd" for python
> 2.3 (for Win32 platform)? (and the file npstruct.pyd)
> 
> Where I can find this file?

I believe the best answer might be "use ctypes instead".

You probably found this: http://www.nightmare.com/software.html
from which you can infer that calldll is not supported any more.
(I'm not sure that's the case... and of course the source is
available so you could presumably make it run under Python 2.3
yourself.)

On the other hand, http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/
is the place to go for something that appears to be supported,
although depending on your needs it may not be quite mature enough
yet.  It has been described as "experimental" in the past, although
that label seems to have been removed from the web page...  

I haven't gotten around to trying it yet, myself.

-Peter



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Wed Jun 18 22:55:03 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:55:03 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com>
 <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it>
 <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com>
 <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr>
 <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com>
 <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it>
 <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com>
 <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it>
 <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <c9%Ha.200753$g92.4077297@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <uy8zy4vzs.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> David Abrahams wrote:
>
>> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
>> 
>>> But this has little to do with the need of 'type declarations'.  I
>>> suspect that a statically typed language would also be better off
>>> without them, relying on type inferencing instead, a la Haskell (and
>>> Haskell's typeclasses to keep the inferencing as wide as feasible),
>>> for example.  But I have no research to back this up;-).
>> 
>> I don't have any first-hand experience, but the experience of friends
>> of mine who have used Haskell is that it can be exceedingly difficult
>> to locate the source of a type error when it does occur, since the
>> inference engine may propagate the "wrong" type back much further than
>> the source of the error.
>
> Surely the compiler should easily be able to annotate the sources with
> the information it has inferred, including, in particular, type
> information.

Oh, yes, IIUC it does: what you get is a long nasty thing which
resembles more than anything a C++ template instantiation backtrace.

> Thus it cannot possibly be any harder to identify the error point than
> if the same type declarations had been laboriously, redundantly written
> out by hand -- except, at worst, for a slight omission in the tool of a
> feature which would be easily provided.

No, if you "laboriously, redundantly" write out the type declarations
by hand you get precise feedback about the location of a type
mismatch.

>> Furthermore, if you do everything by inference you lose the
>> explanatory power of type declarations.
>
> I think I know where you're coming from, having quite a past as a
> static-type-checking enthusiast myself, but I think you overrate the
> "explanatory power of type declarations".
>
> What I want to be able to do in my sources is assert a set of facts
> about "and at this point I know X holds".  

Much of what's in X is captured by type information.

> Sometimes X might perhaps be of the form "a is of type B", but
> that's really a very rare and specific case.  Much more often it
> will be "container c is non-empty", "sequence d is sorted", "either
> x<y or pred(a[z]) for some x>=z>=y", and so on, and so forth.  

Those assertions are *chock full* of type information:

      the type of c is a container

      the type of d is a sequence

      the type of a is indexable

      the types of x and y have a particular ordering relationship

and so on and so forth.

Type declarations don't have to identify concrete types; they can
identify concepts, constraints, and relationships.

> Type declarations would have extraordinary "explanatory power" if
> and only if "a is of type B" was extraordinarily more important than
> the other kinds of assertions, and it just isn't -- even though, by
> squinting just right, you may end up seeing it that way by a sort of
> "Stockholm Syndrome" applied to the constraints your compiler forces
> upon you.

Suggesting that I've grown to love my shackles is a little bit
insulting.  I have done significant programming in Python where I
didn't have static typing; I've gotten over my initial reactions to
the lack of static checks and grown comfortable with the language.
Purely dynamic typing works fine for a while.  I have seen real
problems develop in my code that static type checking would have
prevented.

It's not an illusion that static types help (a lot) with certain
things.  The type information is at least half of what you've written
in each of those assertions.  I use runtime assertions, too, though
often I use type invariants to constrain the state of things --
because it makes reasoning about my code *much* easier.  An
ultra-simple case: it's great to be able to use an unsigned type and
not have to think about asserting x >= 0 everywhere.

> Types are about implementation

No, they're about a relationship between an interface and semantics.
Most people leave out the semantics part when thinking about them,
though.

> and one should "program to an interface, not to an implementation"
> -- therefore, "a is of type B" is rarely what one SHOULD be focusing
> on.  

In a modern type system, "a is of type B" mostly expresses an
interface for a and says nothing about implementation per se.  It does
say something about the effects of using that interface, though that
part is harder to formalize.

However, with a nod to "practicality beats purity:"

     People don't usually think in these abstract terms about most of
     their code, and rigorously documenting code in terms of interface
     requirements is really difficult, so most people never do it.
     It's a poor investment anyway because *most* (not all) Python
     code is never used generically: common interfaces for polymorphic
     behavior are generally captured in base classes and a great deal
     of code is just operating on concrete types anyway.

     The result is that there are usually no expression of interface
     requirements at all in a function's interface/docs, where in the
     *vast* majority of cases a simple (non-generic) type declaration
     would've done the trick.  [Without the expression of interface
     requirements, the possibility to use the function generically is
     lost, for all intents and purposes]

So, while I buy "program to an interface" in theory, in practice it
is only appropriate in a small fraction of code.

> Of course, some languages blur the important distinction
> between a type and a typeclass (or, a class and an interface, in
> Java terms -- C++ just doesn't distinguish them by different
> concepts

Nor does most of the type theory I've seen.

> so, if you think in C++, _seeing_ the crucial distinction may be
> hard;-).

I know what typeclasses and variants are all about.

> "e provides such-and-such an interface" IS more often interesting, but,
> except in Eiffel, the language-supplied concept of "interface" is too
> weak for the interest to be sustained -- it's little more than the sheer
> "signature" that you can generally infer easily.  E.g.:
>
> my procedure receiving argument x
>
>     assert "x satisfies an interface that provides a method Foo which
>             is callable without arguments"
>
>     x.Foo()
>
> the ``assert'' (which might just as well be spelled "x satisfies
> interface Fooable", or, in languages unable to distinguish "being
> of a type" from "satisfying an interface", "x points to a Fooable")
> is ridiculously redundant, the worse sort of boilerplate.  

Only if you think that only syntax (and not semantics) count.  It's
not just important that you can "Foo()" x, but that Fooing it means
what you think it does.

> Many, _many_ type declarations are just like that, particularly if
> one follows a nice programming style of many short
> functions/methods.  At least in C++ you may often express the
> equivalent of
>
> "just call x.Foo()!"
>
> as
>
> template <type T>
> void myprocedure(T& x)
> {
>     x.Foo();
> }

In most cases it's evil to do this without a rigorous concept
definition (type constraint) for T in the documentation.  Pretty much
all principled template code (other than special cases like the lambda
library which are really just for forwarding syntax) does this, and
it's generally acknowledged as a weakness in C++ that there's no way
to express the type constraints in code.

> where you're basically having to spend a substantial amount of
> "semantics-free boilerplate" to tell the compiler and the reader
> "x is of some type T" 

Where are you claiming the expression of the type of x is in the code
above?  I don't see it.

> (surprise, surprise; I'm sure this has huge explanatory power,
> doesn't it -- otherwise the assumption would have been that x was of
> no type at all...?)  

This kind of sneering only makes me doubt the strength of your
argument even more.  I know you're a smart guy; I ask you to treat my
position with the same respect with which I treat yours.

> while letting them both shrewdly infer that type T, whatever it
> might be, had better provide a method Foo that is callable without
> arguments (e.g. just the same as the Python case, natch).

Only if you consider the implementation of myprocedure to be its
documentation.

> You do get the "error diagnostics 2 seconds earlier" (while compiling
> in preparation to running unit-tests, rather than while actually
> running the unit-tests) if and when you somewhere erroneously call
> myprocedure with an argument that *doesn't* provide the method Foo
> with the required signature.  But, how can it surprise you if Robert
> Martin claims (and you've quoted me quoting him as if I was the
> original source of the assertion, in earlier posts) 

Hey, sorry, I just let Gnus do its job.  If the quote attributions
were messed up then someone messed them up before me.

> that this just isn't an issue...?  

It doesn't surprise me in the least that some people in the Python
community claim that their way is unambiguously superior.  It's been
going on for years.  I wanted to believe that, too.  My experience
contradicts that idea, unfortunately.

> If the compilation takes 3 seconds, then getting the error
> diagnostics 2 seconds earlier is still a loss of time, not a gain,
> compared to just running the tests w/o any compilation;-)...

Comprehensive test suites can't always run in a few seconds (the same
applies to compilations, but I digress).  In a lot of the work I've
done, testing takes substantially longer, unavoidably.  A great deal
of this work is exactly the sort of thing I like to use Python for, in
fact (but not because of the lack of type declarations).  If
compilation is reasonably fast and I have been reasonably
conscientious about my type invariants, though, I *can* detect many
errors with a static type system.

But more importantly, I can come back to my code months later and
still figure out what's going on, or work with someone else's code
without losing my way.  Isn't that why we're all using Python instead
of Perl?

> I do, at some level, want a language where I CAN (*not* MUST) make
> assertions about what I know to be true at certain points:
> 1. to help the reader in a way that won't go out of date (the assert
>    statement does that pretty well in most cases)
> 2. to get the compiler to to extra checks & debugging for me (ditto)
> 3. to let the compiler in optimizing mode deduce/infer whatever it
>    wants from the assertions and optimize accordingly (and assert is
>    no use here, at least as currently present in C, C++, Python)

Those are all the same things I want, and for the same reasons.  What
are we arguing about again?

> But even if and when I get such a language I strongly doubt most of
> my assertions will be similar to "type declarations" anyway...

Oh, there it is.  Well, if the language has a weak notion of type,
then you're probably right.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun  8 12:21:37 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 10:21:37 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <l1el24hmex.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>; from ed@membled.com on Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 11:51:50AM +0100
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org> <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055032157.24538.python-list@python.org> <l1el24hmex.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <20030608102137.C3782@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ed Avis:
> Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:
> 
> >    swap = lambda L,i,j: L[i], L[j] = L[j], L[i]
> 
> As I mentioned elsewhere on this thread, lambda-functions could be
> parenthesized where this is necessary.  The proposed change to have
> one-line statements instead of expressions inside lambda would not
> (AFAIK) make any parse that is currently unambiguous require
> parentheses; only some new cases such as your example with commas
> would need it.  So
> 
>     swap = lambda L,i,j: (L[i], L[j] = L[j], L[i])

Note that this does not match your proposed syntax

    lambda_form ::= "lambda" [parameter_list]: simple_stmt

since assignment statements may not be parenthesized.

Also, although I know next to nothing about the parser
implementation, I'd think it parses simple_stmt greedily.  If that
is so, the change you propose would break the parsing of
    lambda x: x, 3
since the whole "x, 3" would be greedily consumed as a
simple_stmt.  (I'm just guessing, of course, but at least in a
half-educated way; note in Grammar/Grammar that the present rule
for lambda
    lambdef: 'lambda' [varargslist] ':' test
uses 'test', while simple_stmt
    simple_stmt: small_stmt (';' small_stmt)* [';'] NEWLINE
    small_stmt: expr_stmt | print_stmt | [...]
    expr_stmt: testlist (augassign testlist | ('=' testlist)*)
uses 'testlist', which is
    testlist: test (',' test)* [',']
.  I'd think this would affect the handling of commas in lambdas
in a backwards-incompatible way.)

> > [...] Anonymity is a red
> >herring; so are closures; the important point is that lambdas are
> >expressions and defs are statements.
> 
> Well a named function has two halves: the 'def f: ...' which is a
> statement, and the use of the name 'f' which is an expression.  Lambda
> combines both in one place.  [...]

I do not find this a useful way to describe the situation.  That a
name bound to an object (whether by def statement or otherwise)
can be used in an expression tells us nothing about the syntax for
creating the object, nor about the object itself.  You can do the
same with a lambda-created function, after all:
    foo = lambda x: 2*x    # create function object, bind name 'foo' to it
    print foo(3)           # use 'foo' in expression
or, indeed, any object whatsoever.

The point under discussion is the function-creating text; for
lambdas that is an expression, and for defs it is a statement.  I
regret that you think it's harping, but ultimately that's why
lambda is restricted to expressions -- being an expression itself,
it may only contain expressions (barring significant and, imho,
likely-to-be-problematic changes to the grammar).

> [...] Letting it contain one-line statements
> seems like the best compromise between the two worlds.  Expressions
> only is too counterintuitive IMHO.

I disagree, as I'm sure you've realized by now.  Certainly I don't
expect allowing statements in expressions to work out well -- even
if restricted to simple_stmt, and even with parentheses.  For
example, the circumstances under which you'd need parentheses seem
much more complicated to explain than the difference between
expressions and statements.

But I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.  A working patch would
probably convince me; so probably would a thorough analysis of the
syntactical issues.

Once I'm convinced it's feasible, I might reject it on aesthetic
grounds, of course.  :)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Our analysis begins with two outrageous benchmarks."
  -- "Implementation strategies for continuations", Clinger et al.




From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Wed Jun 25 07:39:06 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:39:06 +0100
Subject: WTF is Fibonnacci
References: <7inIa.55233$Io.5225846@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <I1oIa.9952$5d.738838@news20.bellglobal.com> <G22Ja.570$HI.61785282@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <ab2jfvktm6h5c6tut920hr5uqmfsbio3lp@4ax.com>

On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:08:22 GMT, "Byron Morgan"
<lazypointer at yahoo.com> wrote:

>1 11 21 1112 3112 211213 312213 212223 114213
>
>Or at least I think that is it.

I'd not seen that one before, but it's clearly related to the now
fairly well-known:

1, 11, 21, 1211, 111221, 312211, 13112221, 1113213211 ...

Exercise: prove that no digit higher than 3 can appear in that
series...



From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 26 17:39:11 2003
From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:39:11 -0700
Subject: add empty directory using zipfile?
References: <rsmjfvkmc2s46abk236uao8malat1t7q83@4ax.com> <Xns93A64264F1909JanC@213.118.38.24> <mailman.1056613311.31082.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4cnmfvkvg6bbf4t6nmtrg5nc764fe02dkk@4ax.com>

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 03:40:01 -0400, Oren Tirosh
<oren-py-l at hishome.net> wrote:

>On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 04:31:37AM +0000, JanC wrote:
>> Tung Wai Yip <tungwaiyip at yahoo.com> schreef:
>> 
>> > Can I add empty directory using zipfile? When I try to add a directory
>> > it complains that it is not a file.
>> 
>> ZIP files can't contain directories, only files and the paths to those 
>> files.  A workaround might be to put an empty file in the directory.
>
>ZIP files *can* contain directories. They are described as zero-length
>files with some flag set.  I don't see any specific API for this in 
>zipfile.py but I think that if you pass a ZipInfo record with the right
>values to ZipFile.writestr it should probably work. Consult the 
>documentation of the zip format or just create a zip containing an empty 
>directory with any zip utility look at the ZipInfo using zipfile.py.
>
>    Oren

I reverse engineered a zip file. Looks like I can save an empty
directory by setting zipinfo.external_attr as 48 (at least for Windows
2000).

  z = zipfile.ZipFile("new.zip","w")
  zinfo = zipfile.ZipInfo("empty/",(2002,12,31,23,59,59))
  zinfo.external_attr = 48
  z.writestr(zinfo, "")

I guess zipfile should be enhanced to save empty directory too.

Wai Yip Tung




From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Thu Jun  5 08:23:46 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:23:46 +1000
Subject: Python & CGI. HELP please...
References: <pan.2003.06.05.09.57.28.334261@yahoo.com> <mailman.1054814129.25949.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nDGDa.266$x15.10406@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

I scratching my head and thinking back to when I did this in perl, cant you
just:

print "Content-Type: application/pdf\n\n"   #you need 2 returns here

#read file as binary and print to screen
#lets say read file into a variable called content
print content

>                 print "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=%s\n" %

"Jay Dorsey" <jay at jaydorsey.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1054814129.25949.python-list at python.org...
> On Thursday 05 June 2003 05:57, Enrico Morelli wrote:
>
> Have you tried opening the file up before you write the headers, so you
can
> obtain the length, then specifying a "Content-length: %d" % len(l) in the
> headers?
>
> Jay
>
> > I'm trying to write a script to be able to download/upload files
> > through web pages.
> > The upload script works fine but the download no.
> > When I download a file (pdf for example) using this script, I'm unable
> > to open it in local using acroread because at the end of the document I
> > found some html rows :-||
> > These rows are some html code inside of the script that I use to
> > display errors.
> >
> > Follow the method that I use to download files:
> >
> > def download(self, fullname, file):
> >                 print "Content-Type: application/download"
> >                 print "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=%s\n" %
> > file try:
> >                         f=open(fullname, "rb")
> >                         l=f.read()
> >                         sys.stdout.write(l)
> >                         f.close()
> >                         sys.exit()
> >                 except:
> >                         msg="An error occurred during file transfer."
> >                         Display(msg, "")
> >                         sys.exit()
>
> --
> Jay Dorsey
> jay at jay dorsey dot com
>
>





From jtauber at jtauber.com  Sun Jun 22 07:42:15 2003
From: jtauber at jtauber.com (James Tauber)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:42:15 +0800
Subject: GUI interactive prompt with non-text output
References: <000601c33834$e935fc30$a300a8c0@emilio> 
Message-ID: <20030622114215.EB48236370@www.fastmail.fm>

On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 15:07:14 +0800, "James Tauber" <jtauber at jtauber.com>
said:
> I've started diving into the PyCrust/Py stuff from wxPython (thanks for
> the pointer) and it looks like I should be able to do what I want by
> modifying PyShell.

Actually, this assumes that wxStyledTextCtrl supports embedded non-text
widgets, which I'm not sure it does. Time for me to switch over to the
wxPython list, unless someone here knows if wxStyledTextCtrl can support
embedded non-text widgets.

James
-- 
  James Tauber
  http://jtauber.com/




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun  4 10:42:22 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:42:22 +0200
Subject: [OT] Re: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
In-Reply-To: <bbkuu3$t24$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054726447.7340.python-list@python.org> <bbkuu3$t24$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20030604144222.GA2552@nl.linux.org>

Aahz schreef op woensdag  4 juni om 16:21:18 +0000:
> Gerrit Holl  <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
> >
> >Smalltalk isn't practical. 
> 
> That's not quite true.  I know plenty of Smalltalk programmers who would
> disagree, and Squeak is making some inroads.

OK, I'm sorry. I was only mimicing what I have once heard people say,
and I shouldn't do that. I once heard that sockets don't exist but
if it isn't true than I'm gone. Sorry!

yours,
Gerrit.




From bdeck at lycos.co.uk  Tue Jun 10 18:18:20 2003
From: bdeck at lycos.co.uk (deckerben)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 00:18:20 +0200
Subject: Porting Python
References: <2986845.1055280214@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <3ee657b4$0$16588$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

"DB_RobertP" <member31018 at dbforums.com> wrote in message
news:2986845.1055280214 at dbforums.com...
> Does anyone know if there are any useful links to places that document
> the porting process of Python to other platforms? If anyone is
> familiar with
> python porting, any pointers would be helpful. I'm new to python and

Hello Robert,

I came to this site about a year ago 'looking for a scripting language' to
replace my slow-moving batchfiles. I still wanted a DOS based solution, so
using DJGPP, I did several quick and dirty ports... one of which was Python.
I was not familiar with Python at all, then. After having recieved a lot of
good advice here and from the DJGPP folks, the port grew and became
successful. Thousands of people have since visited
http://members.lycos.co.uk/bdeck to read about and download PythonD (I'm not
kidding).

The policy I recommend is:
1. Start with a good development platform and C compiler. This was the most
critical descision for the DOS port.
2. Know exaclty which posix functions your platform supports, and which ones
they don't. Understand how the python source code works.
3. Offer features. If you don't have them, find them. Example: PythonD's
popularity rocketed when we made the first release that supported dynamic
linking and the building of distutils scripts.
4. Port a clean package. Identify bugs ASAP and move quick to fix them. Run
the test suite (regrtest.py).
5. Use your own software. I myself do all my python programming with
PythonD, and all scripts I write were tested  using PythonD.
6. Let others know. Even the best port won't do anyone any good, if they
don't know it's out there for them. Set up a website, or at least use
someone else's (that's what I first did, too).


Hope this helps a bit. Best wishes.
Ben









From shlomme at gmx.net  Sun Jun  8 10:44:25 2003
From: shlomme at gmx.net (Torsten Marek)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 16:44:25 +0200
Subject: locale.py strangeness
Message-ID: <bbvhsn$csvho$1@ID-195815.news.dfncis.de>

Hi list,

I experienced some strange behaviour with locale.py from Python 2.2.3.
The output of the following code snippet

## -- start -- ##

#!/usr/bin/env python
import os
import locale

pa = "?n"
pb = "oo"
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "")
print locale.strcoll(pa, pb)
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, os.getenv("LANG"))
print locale.strcoll(pa, pb)

## -- end -- ##

is

135
-1

but according to the documentation of locale.getdefaultlocale, the 
results should be the same. My locale setting (in "LANG") is 
"de_DE at euro" (which is not support in Python earlier than 2.2.3), and if 
I run
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, locale.getdefaultlocale())
, a locale.Error is thrown. Can somebody verify this behaviour and give 
some hints about that?

TIA

Torsten




From hannibalkannibal at yahoo.no  Sun Jun 22 13:03:10 2003
From: hannibalkannibal at yahoo.no (Eirik)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:03:10 +0200
Subject: "eval" function
Message-ID: <s6nJa.8480$Hb.147731@news4.e.nsc.no>

How can I do what I would do like this:

set a 12
set b 144
eval a*a == b

in Tcl?
--





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Wed Jun 18 21:16:18 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:16:18 GMT
Subject: Freedom vs popularity
References: <mailman.1055978535.23698.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbf23n1.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:20:48 +1000, Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) wrote:
> From: Ben Finney
>> [GPL as possible explicit waiver of copyright]
>> Thanks for the FUD, but no thanks.
> 
> No FUD, no ability to support anything.

Then please change your description of the supposed problem when you
discuss it, because the GPL is provably not an "explicit" waiver of
copyright.


> Personally, the only thing I have against the GPL is that in practical
> terms it restricts the amount that code licensed under it is used.
> BSD-style licenses allow far greater usage of code, and as a result
> such code does get used more.

That's fine.  The purpose of a copyleft license like the GPL is not to
promote the widest use of the code; it is to promote the greatest
freedom for users of the code, and to encourage more free software to be
written and distributed.

    <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-copyleft.html>

The BSD license, on the other hand, is designed for those who want their
code to be used as widely as possible, and don't care whether their
software will become part of a non-free program.

> I prefer that my code, where possible, be used by as many people as
> possible.

Then a BSD license sounds best for your purposes.  My purposes, on the
other hand, place freedom ahead of popularity, so I prefer the GPL.

We're both writing free software.  Share and enjoy.

-- 
 \      "Truth: Something somehow discreditable to someone."  -- Henry |
  `\                                                        L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From zathras at thwackety.com  Fri Jun 13 15:58:18 2003
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:58:18 +0100
Subject: insert thousands separators
In-Reply-To: <3EE9E548.9010701@isst.fhg.de>
References: <3EE9E548.9010701@isst.fhg.de>
Message-ID: <200306132058.20766.zathras@thwackety.com>

On Friday 13 June 2003 15:52, Marcus Bergmann wrote:
...
> how can I insert thousands separators into an integer or a string, e.g.
> 1000000 to 1.000.000?

A "correct" way:
>>> import locale
>>> locale.getlocale(locale.LC_NUMERIC)
['en_GB', 'iso8859-1']
>>> locale.format("%d",1000000,1)
'1,000,000'

A way of doing it without division:

def commafy(num,sep=",",floatsep="."):
  convert,nonIntPart,r = num,None,""
  if not isinstance(num,int):
      convert=int(num)
      nonIntPart=num-int(num)
  revd=str(convert)[-1::-1]
  l=len(revd)
  for i in xrange(0,l,3):
     r += revd[i:i+3]
     if i<l-3:
       r += sep
  r=r[-1::-1]
  if nonIntPart:
     r = r+floatsep+str(nonIntPart)[2::]
  return r

>>> commafy(1000000)
'1,000,000'


Michael
-- 
Ask five economists and you'll get five different explanations (six if
one went to Harvard).
		-- Edgar R. Fiedler





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jun 24 08:13:58 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:13:58 GMT
Subject: SocketServer class - basis problem
References: <63701d2f.0306231709.7990d916@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <agXJa.313876$3n5.226257@news2.central.cox.net>

"lebo" <leonardbocock at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:63701d2f.0306231709.7990d916 at posting.google.com...
> So I'm new to this python stuff - and this has me stumped
>
[sample code]
>
> Why does s.recv() hang the client?  It seems like server is not
> handing back "blah", but I'm sure it is.....this should be
> easy...(sigh)

<gratuitous self-advertisement>
If you're going to OSCON you might like to sign up for the Python Network
Programming tutorial - see
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2003/view/e_sess/4165

This tutorial is intended to help network programming beginners to write
their own networking code.
</gratuitous self-advertisement>

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From demanzano at playstos.com  Tue Jun 10 09:12:01 2003
From: demanzano at playstos.com (Alessandro de Manzano)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:12:01 +0200
Subject: simple, old-style graphic  ?
References: <tg2Fa.16464$Fr5.341330@tornado.fastwebnet.it> <bc43oc$ql1$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <LOkFa.17748$Fr5.369550@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:bc43oc$ql1$0 at 216.39.172.122...

> >I accept any hints and suggestions :)
> >
> Have you looked at the tkinter demos that come with the source
distribution?
> (the source distribution is worth downloading, if you haven't).

No I have not yet looked at it.
I'll do, since many people kindly indicated it to me ;-)


> minimal win32 windows and graphics functionality, perhaps by interfacing
class
> methods to the windows stuff running in a separate machine thread via
queues and/or
> shared memory with locks, etc. to pass data.

Yup, maybe a module/extension just over Win32 GDI functions, very "low
level" very custom, but definetely not easy nor quick to write ;-) :(

I'll take a look at TKinter and pyGame as seems to be the most quoted
approches for a problem like mine.


Many many thanks to you all ! :-)



-- 

bye!

Alessandro de Manzano
Playstos - TIMA SpA
Milano, Italy
http://www.playstos.com





From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jun 19 22:59:06 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:59:06 +1200
Subject: Feature Structures in Python (Part II)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1056008255.18015.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1056008255.18015.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bctrs8$lihpv$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

James Tauber wrote:
>     if type(object1) == type(object2) == dict:

A more modern way to write this is

    if isinstance(object1, dict) and isinstance(object2, dict):

which will also work if the objects happen to be
subclasses of dict.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From aryal at ameritech.net  Mon Jun 16 21:54:02 2003
From: aryal at ameritech.net (Anoop Aryal)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:54:02 GMT
Subject: Bug (??) in the time module?
Message-ID: <_wuHa.4165$87.2880721@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

Hi,
i'm not sure if this is the right place to post it. if it's not, i would 
appriciate it if you could point me to the right newsgroup.

i had needed to do some time manipulation -- take the unix time value, 
convert it to localtime (human readable format), save it to a text file. 
later, read it from the text file, convert it back to unix time format 
for comparisions. it seems that in this round trip, i'm ahead by an 
hour. i'm guessing it's got something to do with daylight savings. but 
here's the code that illustrates the problem:
---------------------------
#!/usr/bin/python

import time

thetime = time.time()
timeString = time.ctime(thetime)
print timeString
timeTuple = time.strptime(timeString)
print timeTuple
thetime2 = time.mktime(timeTuple)
timeString2 = time.ctime(thetime2)
print timeString2

-----------------------------
and here's the output i get:

Mon Jun 16 10:45:50 2003
(2003, 6, 16, 10, 45, 50, 0, 167, 0)
Mon Jun 16 11:45:50 2003

----------------------------

i'm on python 2.2.2 on an up2dated rh9.

i've used localtime() etc in place of ctime(). but can't figure this one 
out. it's good up to the tuple returned by strptime(). i would assume 
that both mktime() and  ctime() (i think the culprit here is mktime()) 
would 'do the right thing' without extensive parameter passing for this 
type of default conversions... it this a bug?

thanks,
anoop
aryal at ameritech.net




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Jun 23 11:10:09 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 10:10:09 -0500
Subject: memory leak "import random"
In-Reply-To: <009b01c33995$6628dc10$5000a8c0@codersebastian>
References: <009b01c33995$6628dc10$5000a8c0@codersebastian>
Message-ID: <20030623151008.GB4459@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 04:40:24PM +0200, Sebastian Tusk wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> i have a problem with the following code snippet.

I can reproduce some sort of memory leak here too, running 2.2.2-26 as
packaged for RedHat 9.  Note that the seemingly equivalent
    python -c "while 1: import string"
doesn't leak... implying the problem is with PyRun_SimpleString, not
import.

Jeff




From spahievi at vega.bg  Thu Jun 19 14:38:34 2003
From: spahievi at vega.bg (Niki Spahiev)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:38:34 +0300
Subject: 2D Graphics Libraries for python?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030619085208.00b257d8@pop.hurrah.com>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030619085208.00b257d8@pop.hurrah.com>
Message-ID: <893946374.20030619213834@vega.bg>

6/19/2003, 19:38:14, Ken Seehof wrote:

KS> - Beziers
KS> - Antialiasing (lines and beziers)
KS> - Transparent bitmaps
KS> - Portable (unix, linux, mac, windows)
KS> - Can be painted in a wxPython window

Check chaco also new PIL IIRC

-- 
Best regards,
 Niki Spahiev





From johnp at reportlab.com  Wed Jun  4 10:18:24 2003
From: johnp at reportlab.com (John Precedo)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:18:24 +0100
Subject: Reference for learning/using python & COM
In-Reply-To: <c6f263dc.0306040543.1f8227fa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <GBEDIFFLINCAGNCJCLIFEEEAEFAA.johnp@reportlab.com>

> Can anyone recommend a reference for using python with the Common
> Object Model (COM) in Windows?

It sounds like this is what you need:

Python Programming on Win 32 by Mark Hammond and Andy Robinson

The review on Amazon says:
In lieu of a general language tour, this book centers on practical tips and
examples for using Python on Windows... You'll learn how to write COM
servers in Python and then how to script them in Visual Basic (used here to
build user interfaces) and how to control Word and Excel with OLE Automation
in Python. One standout example looks at building and printing accounting
reports in Office 2000 using Python as the script language.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1565926218/qid=1054736091/sr=1
-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-7242781-2828114?v=glance&s=books

- John







From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jun 27 10:48:42 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:48:42 GMT
Subject: Exposing object model in Python?
References: <bdffi1$skho2$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bdgvk5$sid7t$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <IrXKa.333801$3n5.129469@news2.central.cox.net> <bdhilp$ta2n6$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <ePYKa.333829$3n5.249616@news2.central.cox.net>

"MK" <MK at foo.com> wrote ...
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote
>
> > If you can get a look at "Python Programming on Win32" by Mark Hammond
and
> > Andy Robinson that will show you a number of ways to do this, including
> > writing a COM server in Python and providing Python scripting facilities
> to
> > your users.
>
>
> Is COM platform-specific? I believe it is, but I may be wrong.
> (Anyway I'm sure it's platform specific, no matter what MS says.)
> If it is platform-specific, then that's not what I need.
> I'd like to expose my object model on every Python-enabled
> platform.
>

In which case look at the bit about providing scripting facilities (the
Effbot has pointed the way). You're right, COM is platform-specific, despite
MS protestations.

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Thu Jun 26 02:10:21 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 23:10:21 -0700
Subject: wxPython.Fit() is funky.
References: <nl9kfvgchoj3bg3rk8ttrgtsmscmucdrih@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <33803989.0306252210.46acf16@posting.google.com>

Hello Tom,

> Unfortunately, this behavior means that Fit() is
> nearly useless for me.  I just started doing this wx and Python
> stuff, and every window that I create in my recent project needs
> to be sized based on the content.  The way Fit() works is making
> me actually compute the size of the content myself.  It's not
> hard, but it is tedious when the library tells you that this
> functionality is available. 
Why don't you use sizers?
(http://www.lpthe.jussieu.fr/~zeitlin/wxWindows/docs/wxwin40.htm#wxboxsizer)
They save you from doing all this stuff by yourself.

HTH.
Miki



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  9 12:44:37 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 10:44:37 -0600
Subject: Prolog-style unification?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.06.08.02.28.12.52487@webone.com.au>; from simonb@webone.com.au on Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 12:28:17PM +1000
References: <HlmEa.107$Hw.137249@news2.news.adelphia.net> <mailman.1055018594.20123.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.06.08.02.28.12.52487@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <20030609104437.E778@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Simon Burton:
> On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 14:38:40 -0600, junk wrote:
  [...]
> > while Father(X,Y):
> >     print X, Y
> 
> Know about iterators?
> 
> i'd like to see
> for x,y in Father():
>   print x, y

It's not clear how you'd do any more complex query with such a
scheme.  What if you want grandfathers of Seth, for example?  The
original allows for the possibility of something like

    Father(X, Y) & Father(Y, "Seth")

for example.

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "[W]e must be very careful when we give advice
staschuk at telusplanet.net    to younger people: sometimes they follow it!"
                             -- "The Humble Programmer", Edsger Dijkstra




From donn at drizzle.com  Sun Jun 15 00:24:28 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 04:24:28 -0000
Subject: Reading from a FIFO, burning CPU
References: <bcg2m8$iqmme$1@ID-113469.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <1055651067.371761@yasure>

Quoth "Elmar W. Hoefner" <elmar.hoefner at uibk.ac.at>:
| I tried to continuously stream a FIFO into my python script.
| I was successful so far, but the performance is not acceptable: If I start
| the script, it eats 99% of my CPU cycles. Can anyone give me a hint how to
| change this?

| fifo=open("/test_fifo", "r")
| while 1:
|         line=fifo.readline()
|         # to stop the repeated printing of " '' " while nothing is in the fifo:
|         if line != '': print line 
|
| Anything better? I'm sure there is, any help is most appreciated! (Google
| didn't help me, nor did the archives of this group...)

I reckon the other process wrote to the fifo, and then closed it.
In the somewhat obnoxious logic of fifos, that means that you should
see an end of file, and you do -- that's what end of file looks like.

You may close the fifo, and open it again and resume reading.  Your
reads will "block" until data is ready.  You only need to re-open the
fifo when you encounter end of file (zero length string.)

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com




From p-abel at t-online.de  Thu Jun  5 06:07:22 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 03:07:22 -0700
Subject: Help with dictionary
References: <9afd3f36.0306042301.5243a9e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0306050207.9247fac@posting.google.com>

iamshady at rediffmail.com (Jim Shady) wrote in message news:<9afd3f36.0306042301.5243a9e8 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
> 
> I have a dictionary of the sort:
> 
> {(1, (21353, 21418)): 3900, (2, (53006, 53164)): 3800, (0, (19697,
> 19763)): 4100}
> 
> I need to re-sort this dictionary with the first element of the tuple
> in the keys. A sorted dictionary of the above would be:
> 
A dictonary can't be sorted. If it once is, it happens by chance.
> {(0, (19697, 19763)): 4100, (1, (21353, 21418)): 3900, (2, (53006,
> 53164)): 3800}
> 
> Could somebody help me with the algorithm/logic to accomplish this?
What you have to do is to put the items of a dictionary into a list
which you can sort.
>>> myDict={(1, (21353, 21418)): 3900, (2, (53006, 53164)): 3800, (0,
(19697,19763)): 4100}
>>> myDict
{(2, (53006, 53164)): 3800, (0, (19697, 19763)): 4100, (1, (21353,
21418)): 3900}
>>> myItems=myDict.items()
>>> myItems.sort()
>>> myItems
[((0, (19697, 19763)), 4100), ((1, (21353, 21418)), 3900), ((2,
(53006, 53164)), 3800)]
>>> 
Regards
Peter
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Jim



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Jun  5 12:01:58 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 12:01:58 -0400
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
References: <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com> <mailman.1054749788.8638.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u65nk5x8p.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Moshe Zadka <m at moshez.org> writes:

> On 04 Jun 2003, David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:
> 
> > Just one small comment, since I generally don't see it mentioned in
> > postings about Twisted - the underlying protocol support for internet
> > components appear robust in terms of TCP support, but we found that
> > UDP support was much weaker when we last looked at Twisted (not too
> > long ago).
> 
> These kinds of comments really should exact numbers. UDP was specifically
> marked "unstable" in Twisted 1.0. Since then it has been revamped, and
> seems to be working pretty well. Do you have any specific lacks or
> complaints about UDP in Twisted?

I'm not sure that making a comparison between robust and weaker
necessarily requires numbers (unless you're saying that UDP support in
Twisted really isn't weaker than TCP), since it's just intended to be
a general comment and not a set of metrics to base a decision on.

But since you asked :-)

First, I'll re-iterate that I'm not knocking Twisted - it's an
impressive framework.

However, the last time we specifically tried Twisted out for one of
our applications - a distributed processing system - was probably
around January/February - it's true that this was probably 1.0 (or
0.99.4 which was really close to 1.0).  At that time, a big item that
showed up was that the perspective broker, a key reason for looking at
Twisted, didn't support UDP.  The developer doing the testing also had
problems getting some of the higher level objects and/or samples to
function when trying to convert them from TCP to UDP, including some
issues with the IReactorUDP class (sorry, but I don't have hard notes
on that handy).  We then noticed the various UDP classes generally
marked as unstable, and figured they weren't quite as well supported
within the core framework.  I assumed it was most likely due to lack
of real need by current Twisted users, which I'm certainly not
complaining about, but it wasn't worth our pursuing, since we had our
own code base we could also work from as an alternative.

I checked back last month (version 1.0.4) and saw the
twisted.internet.udp class was still marked as "unstable" in the
documentation and IReactorUDP as semi-stable.  This still seems true
with 1.0.5 on the web site, and there aren't many UDP related comments
in the change log.

While reviewing the documentation (then and now) I think one item that
struck me is the protocol structure where just about everything lies
beneath the twisted.internet.protocol.Protocol class (which inherits
from twisted.internet.protocol.BaseProtocol), and that class is often
used as central to higher level functionality.  And the peer class
twisted.internet.protocol.ProcessProtocol also inherits from
BaseProtocol.

Stuff layered above this really seems geared towards this Protocol
class - for example, twisted.internet.protocol.Factory is designed to
create subclasses of Protocol, and the Factory is what is used by many
higher level system objects like the perspective broker.  True, I
don't think the implementation of Factory prevents you from using a
class not beneath Protocol, but then the users of the factory will
generally blow up when they try to use a method in the Protocol
interface that might not be present.

All of this is really nice and well-structured, at least without UDP.
UDP is twisted.internet.protocol.DatagramProtocol, but that doesn't
even inherit from BaseProtocol, much less be a subclass of protocol.
And because it's not a subclass of Protocol it doesn't get to play
equally in a lot of the higher level support of Twisted.  Once you
start getting into the higher order framework objects that layer on
top of all of the factory and protocol work beneath, UDP starts to
feel like the odd man out.

As a trivial example, take the "echoserv.py" example.  I can't see why
that example can't become a UDP example just by changing the
"listenTCP" call to "listenUDP".  However, because the example server
is a subclass of Protocol, and the UDP DatagramProtocol class is going
to call "datagramReceived" rather than Protocol's "dataReceived" it
doesn't work.  But there's no reason it couldn't, since at that level
of abstraction, UDP and TCP could be treated equally.  Now in recent
versions of Twisted, there is a new echoserv_udp.py example whose sole
difference is to inherit from DatagramProtocol and change the single
method in the server to datagramReceived.

I think my conclusions at the time were that the Protocol class was
really a StreamProtocol class in disguise, and there was probably no
top level "protocol" abstraction in the system.  Datagram and Stream
protocols can be like night and day at the protocol level, but there's
also a lot of commonality that ought to be able to permit some of the
higher level framework functionality to work in either case.

The documentation doesn't tend to highlight TCP versus UDP
differences, but just uses the factory and protocol level, so it's not
generally clear where something won't work in both cases.  I just
ended up feeling like trying to use UDP for a complex application with
Twisted (as opposed to a dedicated UDP protocol implementation like
DNS) was swimming against the tide.  I think that's still a valid
state of affairs at the moment.

> (Note that currently Twisted.Names is an authoritative DNS for a domain
> with no problems, and DNS is a UDP-based protocol)

Right, it's a UDP based _protocol_, but not a UDP based "application",
so it doesn't need much from Twisted other than it's pure asynchronous
message loop.  For me, that wasn't the attraction and potential of
Twisted for us (we have plenty of async loops of our own around :-)),
but the support layers above that all working together.

-- David



From MK at foo.com  Fri Jun 13 07:17:44 2003
From: MK at foo.com (MK)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:17:44 +0200
Subject: OnFileOpent(self, event):
Message-ID: <bccbsn$hd50f$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>

[new to python]

Hi group,
I just picked up Python two days ago and it's fucking true - one
is really more productive with it. It's simply amazing. Love at the
first sight, I can tell ya.

I have a question. How can I programmatically invoke the following
function:

    def OnFileOpen(self, event):

For now, it gets called whenever I select File->Open menu,
but I'd like to invoke it in my code. I'm using Python 2.2 and
wxPython 2.4 on Win 2000. Thx,





From pxtl at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  9 22:28:18 2003
From: pxtl at hotmail.com (martin z)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:28:18 GMT
Subject: Call a Python file with parameters
References: <Dr1Fa.38532$j9%.18920@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <mailman.1055182337.1664.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6nbFa.42656$3Sm.2416@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

>     def function(a, b):
>         '''This function exists to confuse you.'''
>         print 'A is', b
>         print 'B is', a
>
>     import sys
>     sys.modules['file'] = function
>     del sys

This is, of course, the obvious way.  Another way is the from statement.

The problem is that this is clumsy and not good.  I was hoping for a more
streamlined approach to the concept.  Some way to make some sort of "module
header" where the module itself takes the parameters.

>   So, we see that it is possible.  Is it desirable?  Only if you wish to
> confuse readers of your code (including, possibly, yourself) and write
code
> that is of generally poor quality due to its pointless use of wierd
magicks.

Of course, that's why I was asking - I was hoping for a better approach.

The reason I ask this is because I'm using Python in a heavily embedded
environment in which each function stands alone and each function is
interchangeable.  The functions are fetched out of the database as files.
These files could be text or compiled PyC (probably will arrive as pair to
encourage editing).  Hence, keeping the code atomic at a function level is
needed.  The method you describe above is inappropriate because the code
must be run once to build the function, and then the function retrieved.
What would be ideal would be to run the code once with the parameters.

Martin.





From maney at pobox.com  Sun Jun  1 22:21:00 2003
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 02:21:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python Bible recommendations?
References: <bb4h64$4v1qh$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bbecac$6db$2@wheel2.two14.net>

Lee John Moore <leej at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> I've got my feet wet with python by following a few online
> tutorials, but can't help feeling I'm 'missing a few links'.
> For that reason, I'm 90% decided upon buying David Brueck's
> "Python Bible".

I intentionally haven't looked at the other replies; based on past
experience this should be the contrarian review of the "Bible".

> I want to avoid the 'Teach Yourself...' titles because they
> focus too much on aspects I'm already familiar with as a
> programmer of other languages (C, C++ & Pascal amongst others).
> 
> Would other users of the group recommend this 'bible' or
> something else, for somebody like me just getting his feet wet?

I bought the "Bible" on the strength of favorable mentions in online
reviews and was quite disappointed.  Mind you, what I was looking for
was a solid *reference* book; tutorial content wasn't particularly
desired.  What I *should* have done was pickup the second edition of
Beazley's _Python: Essential Reference_, but in the end I was swayed by
the desire to get a different author's view of things.

As a reference book, I found the "Bible" to be incomplete in annoying
and important ways.  One that I recall was the coverage of apply() and
the new, improved f(*args, **kwargs) syntax.  I only managed to find
the "Bible's" coverage because I already knew an alternate keyword or
two to try; when I found it, it mentioned only the "args", with no
mention of passing in keywords args through apply, and no sign of the
new syntax at all... new in 2.0, IIRC, and this "Bible" claims to cover
version 2.1

There were other problems - modules only partially described (wonder if
that was more issues with describing older versions?), more missing or
unfindable features.  All of which is kind of sad, because the quality
of the coverage of what is there - and that seems to be a large portion
of the language - seems pretty good.  In particular, my impression is
that the "Bible" has more examples of usages than Beazly; of course,
it's a considerably larger and more unwieldy volume in consequence.

I'm not sure what level of material would be best for you.  Your
remarks about not wanting another "quickie introduction to
stored-program computer systems" suggests that you might enjoy the
_Python Cookbook_.  And you certainly ought to take a look at the new
Nutshell book, even though its heft makes the "Nutshell" appelation
seem ironic.  OTOH, if you really want the "Bible", I have a copy,
little used and in good condition, that I would part with cheaply.  Ghu
knows it's doing nothing for me but using up space.

Come to think of it, I owe the "Bible" some thanks for driving me back
to the online docs often and desparately enough that I finally got the
hang of finding things in them...



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Jun 26 10:16:03 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:16:03 -0500
Subject: lists and tuples
In-Reply-To: <20030626131817.GA4097@nl.linux.org> (Gerrit Holl's message of
 "Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:18:17 +0200")
References: <20030626131817.GA4097@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <m2el1gvs9o.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Gerrit" == Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> writes:

    Gerrit> I don't understand. I really don't understand.

For me, the most important distinction is that because lists are
mutable, they cannot be used as keys in a dictionary.  Because tuples
are immutable, they can.

  d = {}
  l = [1,2]
  t = (1,2)

  d[l] = 'Nope'  # TypeError: list objects are unhashable
  d[t] = OK'

I find myself using tuples very often as keys for dictionaries.

John Hunter




From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 10 22:33:11 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:33:11 +1200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <m34r2yjz0h.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org> <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055032157.24538.python-list@python.org> <l1el24hmex.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055088916.4391.python-list@python.org> <l1ptlofcz3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055131997.12710.python-list@python.org> <bc3dg8$ef6r9$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <m34r2yjz0h.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bc6332$fj0nn$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> I think it is as easy as this:
> 
> - Replace a construct FOO* with FOO_seq, and define
> 
>   FOO_seq: /* empty */
>          | FOO FOO_seq
> 
> - Replace a construct [FOO] with FOO_opt, and define
> 
>   FOO_opt: /* empty */
>          | FOO

I don't think it's *quite* that easy, because pgen will
accept something like

    FOO = A B C | A B D

whereas if you naively re-wrote that as

    FOO = X | Y
    X = A B C
    Y = A B D

pgen would complain that the first sets of X and Y
are not disjoint.

So you can't just blindly turn parts of the REs
into non-terminals -- some refactoring may be needed
to get the result to be an LL(1) grammar. A proof
would be required that this refactoring is always
possible.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Jun  5 12:50:14 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:50:14 +0200
Subject: Using metaclasses to make super more beatiful
Message-ID: <20030605165014.GA4538@nl.linux.org>

Hi,

as demonstrated by Guido's paper[0], a relatively simple metaclass
can make the use of super a lot more beatiful:

 97 >>> class autosuper(type):
 97 ...  def __init__(cls, name, bases, dict):
 97 ...   super(autosuper, cls).__init__(name, bases, dict)
 97 ...   setattr(cls, "super", super(cls))
 97 ...
 98 >>> class A:
 98 ...  __metaclass__ = autosuper
 98 ...  def f(self): return "A"
 98 ...
100 >>> class B(A):
100 ...  def f(self):
100 ...   return self.super.f()
100 ...
101 >>> B()
<__main__.B object at 0x403b3c6c>
102 >>> B().f()
'A'

Why doesn't type include the behaviour of autosuper by default,
so that each class can use self.super or self.__super__ so that
using super is easier?

And, is it convention not to use Capitalization for metaclasses?
In three examples, Guido doensn't do it in his paper[0]!

[0] http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html#metaclasses

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
39. He may, however, assign a field, garden, or house which he has
bought, and holds as property, to his wife or daughter or give it for
debt.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun  4 12:32:04 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:32:04 -0400
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
References: <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com>

"Thomas Weholt ( PRIVAT )" wrote:
> 
> Just a warning; when you mention "threaded" and "webserver" in this group in
> the same sentence, you'll probably get several replies telling you that
> threaded webservers scale badly and that you should look at ( you guessed
> it ) Twisted or Medusa.

With the added caveat that some folks claim Medusa is no longer supported.
As the asyncore and asynchat modules are now part of the standard distribution,
I'm uncertain whether that's the case.  (I thought anything like that in the
standard package had to be supported by someone... maybe it's just that 
Medusa is no longer being actively developed.)

> Twisted are slowly getting a proper documentation together and that would
> make it a killer package for web/internet-based projects. It still seem a
> bit bloated and some of the code is labeled unstable, yet the the package
> seem to be marketed as complete and stable. I keep seeing things like "It
> should really be re-written/re-factored " etc. in the twisted-mailing-list.
> But all in all, as I said before, I think Twisted might be the new killer
> app if the development-team keeps the development progress they seem to have
> at the moment.

Keep in mind the idea that Twisted is actually a meta-framework, or, if you
will, a framework core plus many services built on that framework.  The
parts are highly modular, however, so there is no reason to consider 
"instability" (and that means it is changing rapidly, not necessarily
that it is bug-ridden) in one area to be a reflection on the quality of 
other areas.  The core internet components, for example, are quite robust
already, and you will rarely see messages about rewriting/refactoring
those pieces.

-Peter



From benoit.besse at club-internet.fr  Wed Jun 18 02:14:40 2003
From: benoit.besse at club-internet.fr (Benoit BESSE)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:14:40 +0200
Subject: Python 2.3 + mysql?
References: <d1avevkfg5puhepurr8o0tipkcktn1b600@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3ef00340$0$14316$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

See http://www.zope.org/Members/adustman/Products/MySQLdb for
Zope/Python/MySQL
See also the andy's page : http://starship.python.net/crew/adustman/

"Chris Stromberger" <bit_bucket5 at hotmail.com> a ?crit dans le message de
news:d1avevkfg5puhepurr8o0tipkcktn1b600 at 4ax.com...
> Is there a mysql module that works with Python 2.3?  I don't see one
> listed at sourceforge.
>
> Thanks.





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jun 29 23:41:44 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 05:41:44 +0200
Subject: get_file_size
References: <bdnqri$j72$1@news.rol.ru> <slrnbfusdq.vc1.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <bdnsdi$jro$1@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <m3ptkwut8n.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Egor Bolonev" <ebolonev at mail.ru> writes:

> How about that?
> f=open('1','wb')
> f.write(something)
> print len(f)
> Should I close file for get it size or should I write a C-like function with
> seek(end),tell, seek(old)?

No. You should use os.fstat, or os.stat if you still remember the file
name.

Regards,
Martin



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jun  3 11:00:51 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 16:00:51 +0100
Subject: Exception - how to ignore it ?
References: <mailman.1054630805.30435.python-list@python.org> <3EDCA806.6060701@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3EDCB823.EE5DE10@hotmail.com>

Helmut Jarausch:
>>> is it possible for an exception handler
>>> to just e.g. print something and set some
>>> global flags but then to have the script
>>> continue just after the statement which
>>> raised the exception?

vivek kumar wrote:
>> If you know exactly where and which statement is raising exception or

Helmut Jarausch:
> No, that was the question.
> 
> Say an exception is raised at many places and I don't want
> to change the code. 

Then I believe the answer is a definitive NO. The relevant section of the python
language reference is

http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/exceptions.html

which says: 

"Python uses the 'termination' model of error handling: an exception handler can
find out what happened and continue execution at an outer level, but it cannot
repair the cause of the error and retry the failing operation (except by
re-entering the offending piece of code from the top)."

"continuing execution at an outer level" also means that you can't resume to the
statement immediately after the one that caused the exception, i.e.

try:
    x = 1/0
    itIsNotPossibleForThisToBeExecuted('WithoutCodeRestructuring')
except ZeroDivisionError, zde:
    print "Got an exception: %s" % str(zde)

So if you're not willing or able to restructure your code, then you're out of
luck :-(

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From peter at melchart.com  Wed Jun  4 05:30:12 2003
From: peter at melchart.com (Peter Melchart)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 09:30:12 GMT
Subject: nntplib body question
References: <879Da.1139848$uT2.175876@news.easynews.com> <m3isrmh3by.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <7xhe7678dk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <E_iDa.1179012$YZ.185060@news.easynews.com>

> Well, you could drop the connection after you've read enough lines.
> If it's a several megabyte message and you want just a few lines, that
> may be a win.

that's exactly what i want to do. but when i call nntpconn.body(id) it
retrieves the whole body. how can i cut the connection after a certain
amount of bytes. a kind of network-callback would be nice that is called
after reading 1K or so, so i can skip the rest after 1 read 100 lines or
so...
is there anything like that ?
the thing is, that i dont want to retrieve the whole article.
cheers,
Peter





From stevewilliams at wwc.com  Tue Jun 24 10:58:23 2003
From: stevewilliams at wwc.com (Steve Williams)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:58:23 GMT
Subject: Choosing the right database-system for a small project
In-Reply-To: <uAUJa.1825$os2.25697@news2.e.nsc.no>
References: <uAUJa.1825$os2.25697@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <jGZJa.111$9I2.29@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>

Thomas Weholt ( PRIVAT ) wrote:
> I've got a rather small project, small in the sense that there's not a lot
> of different tables needed in the database/storage-system, but there will be
> alot of data and the clients must be able to scan thru huge amounts of data
> very fast ( Not serial scanning, but lookups by key, preferrably several
> keys pr record, ie. I need to lookup people both by SSN and by
> first/last-name etc. )
> 

I use Firebird (1.0) with Kinterbasdb in a system which installs easily 
and runs on Windows XP, Windows 98, Linux RH 8.0, and Windows 95.  (The 
screens are wxPython).  I use a variable length version of Russell 
Soundex for person retrievals (Last Name + FirstName), 'name contains' 
for organization retrievals, and indexes for SSN and 'other key' retrievals

I have always liked Firebird/Interbase because it requires no 
administration, has elegant stored procedures, great transactional 
processing, and is open source.

http://firebird.sourceforge.net/

http://kinterbasdb.sourceforge.net/

If you try Firebird, have a look at IBExpert.  Great for debugging and 
general poking around the database.  The personal edition is free.

http://www.ibexpert.com/




From walter at livinglogic.de  Tue Jun 10 15:48:21 2003
From: walter at livinglogic.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Walter_D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:48:21 +0200
Subject: Html: replacing tags
In-Reply-To: <2972888.1055030986@dbforums.com>
References: <2972888.1055030986@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <3EE63605.8090302@livinglogic.de>

Andrei wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm working on an RSS aggregator and I'd like to replace all img-tags in
> a piece of html with links to the image, thereby using the alt-text of
> the img as link text (if present). The rest of the html, including tags,
> should stay as-is. I'm capable of doing this in what feels like the dumb
> way (parsing it with regexes for example, or plain old string splitting
> and rejoining), but I have this impression the HTMLParser or htmllib
> module should be able to help me with this task.
> 
> However, I can't figure out how (if?) I can make a parser do this. Does
> the formatter module fit in here somewhere? The docs, the effbot's guide
> and the posts regarding html only seem to highlight getting data out of
> the html (retrieving links seems particularly popular), not replacing
> tags with other ones.

You might want to use XIST for that. Code that does what you want with
with the Python homepage could look like this:

---
from ll.xist import parsers, converters
from ll.xist.ns import html

def fiximg(node):
    if isinstance(node, html.img):
       node = html.a(node["alt"], href=node["src"])
    return node

e = parsers.parseURL("http://www.python.org", tidy=True)

e = e.mapped(fiximg)

print e.asBytes()
---

HTH,
    Walter D?rwald




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun 17 12:24:32 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:24:32 -0600
Subject: Getting Instance of calling class
In-Reply-To: <bcmfbb$kih2v$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>; from guettler@thomas-guettler.de on Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 09:17:53AM +0200
References: <bcmfbb$kih2v$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20030617102432.C716@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Thomas G?ttler:
> I have a function called _() which prints 
> strings according to the language of the user.
> 
> I don't want to give this method the object which
> holds the language information every time I call it.
> 
> How can I access the calling object?

I'm not sure what you mean by "the calling object".  sys._getframe
provides frames from further up the call stack, but I'm not sure
how this relates to what you want to do.

It sounds a little like you want a dynamically scoped environment
containing (possibly among other things) localization information
for the current user.  I suppose you could implement such a thing
by trolling through stack frames, but this seems a bit hackish.

An alternative approach would be to pass _ into each function
which needs to produce output.  _ could be a closure,
    def makelocalizer(lang):
        def _(s):
            # return s in language lang
        return _
for example.  This avoids passing the language to _, but adds
passing _ around.  Does this help at all?

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "The world will end if you get this wrong."
staschuk at telusplanet.net     -- "Typesetting Mathematics -- User's Guide",
                                 Brian Kernighan and Lorrinda Cherry




From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Jun 16 16:37:13 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 22:37:13 +0200
Subject: Possible install bug in Python 2.3b1? (Python 2.2 still in the registry)
References: <5ab0af73.0306161041.203f6378@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3znkhsqrq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

MatthewS at HeyAnita.com (Matt Shomphe) writes:

> Is this a bug that should be reported?

I think the copies in ControlSetxxx are expected: these are
"last-known-good" backup registry copies. The other values should
probably be corrected; please submit a bug report.

Regards,
Martin




From fjanoos at yahoo.com  Sat Jun  7 04:30:29 2003
From: fjanoos at yahoo.com (FJ)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:00:29 +0530
Subject: Why python
Message-ID: <bbs7sh$nj7$1@home.itg.ti.com>

Hey guys,
not trying to rake up anything new here. I'm trying to convince a friend to
move from some ol' language (perl) to python. does anybody know of any good
articles i can ask him to read (my own powers of persuasion being very
limited) ?
-fj





From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jun  7 11:57:35 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 11:57:35 -0400
Subject: Bug? print statement ends with ',' print a new line
References: <3ee1c3bb@shknews01>
Message-ID: <3EE20B6F.B26AA6C7@engcorp.com>

Lu wrote:
> 
> C:\FAT32\py>type counter.py
> import sys
> import threading
> 
> class Counter:
>     def __init__(self,count=0):
>         self.count=count
>     def start(self):
>         if self.count>0:
>             print self.count,'.',
>             self.count-=1
>             t=threading.Timer(1,self.start)
>             t.start()
>         elif self.count==0:
>             print self.count
> 
> counter=Counter(int(sys.argv[1]))
> counter.start()
> 
> C:\FAT32\py>counter.py 5
> 5 .
> 4 . 3 . 2 . 1 . 0

I don't actually know what you're trying to do, but I don't
think it matters because you very likely have a race condition.
That's because you are executing the print statements from
two places, the main thread and the timer thread that
you start up (or is it multiple timer threads?... as I said,
I'm not even going to try to decipher the intent).

Note that "print" is not an atomic operation.  In fact,
each item that is printed is, I believe, a separate 
set of operations (one to retrieve the string representation,
one to do the actual printing).  Also, there is the "softspace"
mechanism which likely leads to additional bytecode operations
inside the same print statement.  With all that, and multiple
threads involved, you should expect to see unexpected results. :-)

-Peter



From woooee at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 24 19:39:21 2003
From: woooee at yahoo.com (Curly Joe)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:39:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 1== 1 is False?
Message-ID: <20030624233921.92963.qmail@web20508.mail.yahoo.com>

Not sure what you mean by more exactness, and why
rounding wouldn't work as in 
x = 2.260212
y = 2.260212
print "%f and %f are " % (x, y),
##---  round to 3 digits
if round(x, 3) == round(y, 3) :
    print "Equal to 3 decimals"
else :
    print "Not Equal"

x += 0.000001
print "%f and %f are " % (x, y),
if round(x, 3) == round(y, 3) :
    print "Equal to 3 decimals"
else :
    print "Not Equal"

This prints:
2.260212 and 2.260212 are Equal to 3 decimals
2.260213 and 2.260212 are Equal to 3 decimals

This is one of the things that we have to learn to
live with in a binary number system as far a I know,
just like we have to truncate/round numbers like 10/3
or 10/6 in our base 10 system.

> > What do i have to do, if i need "more" exactness? 
> > I have for example the problem with the
> representation of 2.3 or 2.
> 7:
> > >>> 2.3
> > 2.2999999999999998
> > >>> 2.7
> > 2.7000000000000002
> > This is a really strange behaviour!
> > 
> > Thomas
> > -- 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Jun  3 19:14:36 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 23:14:36 GMT
Subject: Passing an Event from a Thread to its Caller
In-Reply-To: <4150f6c8.0306030833.2dd4fc9b@posting.google.com>
References: <4150f6c8.0306021120.7b70d981@posting.google.com> <xQUCa.3253$7E.37896@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <4150f6c8.0306030833.2dd4fc9b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wZ9Da.4067$7E.46779@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Matt Rapoport wrote:
> Mark, thank you very much for your reply.  I think I understand what
> you're saying but the part I'm not so sure about is how do I get my
> thread to trigger the event.
> 
> The thread just creates an object that I wrote called "client". 
> Basically all I want is for the client to pass errors up to my service
> so that I can log them.  Can I set an event in the client code and
> wait for it in the service code?  Or should I alter the client's
> constructor to accept an event so that I can have the service pass the
> event to it?
> 

An event is generally used for synchronization between threads. 
Generally, one thread will "wait" for the event.  Whenever some other 
thread "sets" the event, that first thread will wake up and do whatever 
the event means to it.

Why not simply have your thread log the error?

Mark.




From pcurran at intraspect.com  Tue Jun 24 12:28:04 2003
From: pcurran at intraspect.com (Peter Curran)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 09:28:04 -0700
Subject: Python and Jython
References: <WJOJa.386$Gf3.1688@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <bf49679f.0306240828.2b205714@posting.google.com>

Hello - 

I think either way is fine.  I learned python (aka c-python) first,
then jython.  I work with a product that embeds jython as a mechanism
for writing scripts against a java api, so I use jython every day, but
I write all of my code in pythonwin (from a company called active
state) which is designed for python not jython.

The bummer about this is that I can't debug my jython scripts in
pythonwin live against the java server, but pythonwin makes it
worthwhile with some nice frills such as indentation guides, syntax
colorizing, some intellisense, an interactive window, and a syntax
checker - so when I deploy for interpretation by jython my code is 99%
OK.  The point is that I use a c-python ide for jython and it makes
almost no difference, so I don't think it matters which you learn
first.

As a java programmer you'll probably find that jython is a great RAD
tool - you may even start to write everything in jython first!

Btw, Pythonwin is free - or it used to be, go to www.activestate.com

Happy coding.

"Mulugeta Maru" <mmaru at attcanada.ca> wrote in message news:<WJOJa.386$Gf3.1688 at tor-nn1.netcom.ca>...
> My background is Java. I would like to know the difference between Python
> and Jython. Are they different languages? Should I learn Python first and
> then Jython? The reason I would like to learn the language is to use it with
> Java.
> 
> I just spend one hour on a Python tutorial - the language is just a thing of
> beauty!



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jun 11 16:36:38 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 20:36:38 GMT
Subject: Looking for the greatest negative float value
References: <bc7lvb$gm3$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <bc83sm$7ku$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:52:17 +0200, "Gilles Lenfant" <glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I need the same as...
>
>import sys
>negmaxint = - sys.maxint -1
>
>... but for float data
>
>any hint ?
>

To get what you want (wyw) maybe you have to compute it. E.g.,

 >>> fmin = -1.0
 >>> while 1:
 ...    fnext = fmin*2.0-1.0
 ...    if fnext==fmin: break
 ...    wyw = fmin
 ...    fmin = fnext
 ...
 >>> `wyw`
 '-8.9884656743115795e+307'

I'm not sure how portable this is, but the actual value
can surely vary according to platform. I suppose you could set up a site-specific
initialization to put such a value as sys.minfloat if you wanted to.

The timbot will have the best info ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sat Jun 21 12:51:30 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:51:30 -0400
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org>
 <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com>
 <slrnbf8tsd.qc.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
 <m3r85nmoch.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <S0I9+kKkXEMc092yn@gnosis.cx>         

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) wrote previously:
|martin at mira:~> locate .html|wc
|  41104   41104 2425699
|martin at mira:~> locate .txt|wc
|   7958    7963  389013

Perhaps you missed the extensions *.mbox and *.news?  (or whatever style
your MUA uses).

I just read a couple dozen 7-bit ASCII documents on c.l.py before
getting to Martin's 7-bit ASCII document arguing against the prevelance
of 7-bit ASCII documents (and I haven't even opened my favorite HTML
viewer for the day yet).

Yours, Lulu...

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------





From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jun 18 04:16:48 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:16:48 +0200
Subject: recv
In-Reply-To: <3EF0163E.4010204@uni-koblenz.de>
References: <3EF0163E.4010204@uni-koblenz.de>
Message-ID: <3EF01FF0.8070301@ghaering.de>

Oleg Seifert wrote:
> Hallo Leute,
> 
> habe eine kleine Frage:
> 
> Ich soll mit Python eine Netzwerkanfrage senden und eine Antwort 
> ausgeben. Daf?r habe ich folgenden Skript geschrieben:

"""
Hi folks,

I have a little question:

I'm supposed to send a network request using Python and print a 
response. I've written the following script for this:
"""

> -------------------------------------
> from socket import *
> 
> def read():
>     print s.recv(1024)
>     
> 
> s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
> s.connect(("localhost", 99))
> 
> s.send("loadGraph(\"g.g\");\n")
> read()
> s.close()
> -------------------------------------

> Die Anfrage wird gesendet und die Antwort kommt auch an, aber von dem 
> Antwort erscheint immer nur eine Zeile. Die Antworte sind auch 
> unterschiedlich, sie k?nnen verschiedene Zeilenanzahl haben. Wie kann 
> ich unabh?ngig von einer Antwortstruktur, ganze Antwort ausgeben ?

"""
The request is sent and the response arrives as well, but from the 
response I only ever see one line. The responses are different as well, 
they can have different number of lines. How can I print the whole 
response, independent of the structure (numer of lines) of the response?
"""

If you want to roll your own protocol, you need to design it in a way 
such that the client *can* know when a response is finished. Also it's 
easier to make the socket a file and read from that. Here's a snippet 
from the module smtplib in the standard library that shows how it's can 
be done:

#v+
         if self.file is None:
             self.file = self.sock.makefile('rb')
         while 1:
             line = self.file.readline()
             if line == '':
                 self.close()
                 raise SMTPServerDisconnected("Connection unexpectedly 
closed")
             if self.debuglevel > 0: print 'reply:', `line`
             resp.append(line[4:].strip())
             code=line[:3]
             # Check that the error code is syntactically correct.
             # Don't attempt to read a continuation line if it is broken.
             try:
                 errcode = int(code)
             except ValueError:
                 errcode = -1
                 break
             # Check if multiline response.
             if line[3:4]!="-":
                 break
#v-

Continuation lines look like these:

#v+
250-mail.w-koerting.de
250-PIPELINING
250-SIZE 10240000
250-ETRN
250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN CRAM-MD5 GSSAPI DIGEST-MD5
250-AUTH=LOGIN PLAIN CRAM-MD5 GSSAPI DIGEST-MD5
250-XVERP
#v-

Then comes a line in a different format so the SMTP client knows it's 
the last one in the response:

#v+
250 8BITMIME
#v-

HTH & HAND,

-- Gerhard




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jun  5 04:41:51 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 01:41:51 -0700
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EDF024F.C306402F@alcyone.com>

Chuck wrote:

> I've hit a stumbling block while trying to pick up Python. I've
> googled
> around, and I don't think I'm the first to have this question, but I
> haven't
> been able to find an answer that explains things for me.

The difference you've found is that lists are mutable but integers are
not.  So modifying a mutable object in a function causes changes as seen
by the caller (since it's the same object on both sides), but rebinding
an immutable object doesn't, since all names are local (except when set
off by the "global" statement).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You're a fighter, so fight / Wake up and live
\__/  Sweetbox



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun  9 16:49:52 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 16:49:52 -0400
Subject: Hardware take on software testing.
References: <2ae25c6b.0306060450.78e988f9@posting.google.com> <3EE0CF2B.57F474E4@engcorp.com> <2ae25c6b.0306061721.148300a@posting.google.com> <3EE14F0A.3D1E1887@engcorp.com> <2259b0e2.0306091158.701ed82a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE4F2F0.2EC4FBA5@engcorp.com>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> 
> Nevertheless, I think you are a little bit too enthusiastic.

Perhaps. We'd have to define how much is "too much", however, before
that could be debated.  :-)

> I am referring to statements like "with XP and TDD, you generally
> expect to have *no* bugs" and "you have effectively 100% code coverage".

We find we achieve 100% code coverage on code that is purely test-driven,
and we _do_ expect no bugs.  We find them from time to time, of course, 
but actually expecting them cause us unnecessary stress and waste our time.
If we expected lots of bugs, we'd probably waste a large portion of our 
time planning formal code reviews, trying to do tests with randomized inputs, 
and other such things.  Those might be "nice" to have, in theory, but with 
so few bugs *actually found* we don't believe the benefits would outweigh
the costs, and so we continue to "expect" no bugs, even though from time 
to time we find them.  Make any sense?  I should have said "you should 
expect no bugs", and didn't mean to imply you will never have them.

> My concern is that it is effectively *impossible* to write a comprehensive
> sets of tests. 

I believe that's as seen from a traditional testing point of view.  We
don't write sets of tests:  we write one test, then we write the code
necessary to pass that test, then we clean things up and carry on.  
Nothing more.  If we attempted to write a comprehensive set of tests 
for a bunch of code we'd already written, we'd quickly go mad... 
*and* we'd find all kinds of areas where our tests were not adequate 
or where we had less than 100% coverage.

The key difference is in the nature of the code developed with the TDD
approach versus what we pump out without it.  With the latter approach,
you *need* a comprehensive set of tests to be confident it works right.
And as you say, that's an impossibility.  With TDD, you only write
what you've already tested, and you constantly refactor to remove 
duplication, and the resulting code often bears little resemblance to
code that is just hacked out the typical way.  I still consider it
magic, personally, but the code I write with TDD rarely has bugs, so
I can only point to what works, even if I can't explain the theory.
(Kent Beck's a freakin' genius is one possible theory, I suppose.)

> You cannot imagine and tests all the possible usages of
> a piece of code you write, unless it is trivial. You cannot imagine and
> tests all the possible abuse your future user could perform. You cannot
> never be 100% sure of the correctness of your programs in all situations.

All true.  But with TDD, you can be quite sure that your code passes
all the tests you've written, and as long as you don't find yourself 
writing code that shouldn't be there, adding functionality that you 
don't need yet because you haven't written a test for it, you won't
often find yourself bothered by the probability that there is, in 
fact, a bug somewhere in there.  I wouldn't suggest this level of
unconcern for pacemaker software, I assure you, but we're not working
in an area that requires quite that much rigor.

> If it was so, Python (which is developed using LOTS of tests) would be
> bug free. 

I'd say Python has had lots of tests developed _for_ it, but by no means 
was it written test-first.  I don't it's fair to compare the current
codebase against a purely imaginary one that I suppose would have 
resulted had TDD been used to develop Python.

> This is not the case, because of the subtle bugs you cannot prevent
> at writing time and that are discovered after months or years of usage. Unit
> testing is extremely effective againsts simple bugs (similarly to the compiler
> step in a compiled language, but much more effective), but it is powerless
> (actually in some case it helps, but I am considering the really hard bugs
> here) to prevent subtle bugs, exactly because they are subtle, i.e. you
> haven't thought of a test able to discover them when you first wrote the
> program. Of course, once the subtle bug has been discovered (maybe by your
> users), tests helps a LOT in tracking it and fixing it.

I definitely won't argue against the fact of subtle bugs that are 
extremely hard to catch with any testing done in advance.  It's just
not a good idea to write code that is prone to such problems, however,
so I'd encourage a different approach to writing code, which does
not lead to such problems very often.

> Let me take a concrete example, i.e. my recipe to solve the metaclass
> conflict I posted recently. Here the script is less than 20 line long.
> However, I cannot simply write a comprehensive test suite, since there
> are TONS of possibilities and it is extremely difficult for me to imagine
> all the use cases. I can write a big test suite of hundreds of lines,
> but still cannot be completely sure. I cannot spend weeks in writing the
> test suite for 20 lines of code!

But those 20 lines were not written test-first.  If you were to imagine
only *one* specific use case, the most important one for your own
purposes, and write a single test that exposes the most obvious and
easiest aspect of that one use case, and then implemented just enough
code to pass that one single test, how certain would you be that the
code had lots of bugs?  If you repeated that step over and over again,
constantly retesting, refactoring, and only adding code that already 
had a test for it, do you think you'd be quite so unsure about it?

Now I grant that if someone comes along and uses that 20 lines, no 
matter how many tests you've written for it, in a way you haven't
envisioned (and which is therefore not covered by your tested use
cases), then you might start to sweat, and even _expect_ bugs.  I'm
not sure you should, because the code is probably extremely well-
designed and robust at that point, but it's possible the new type
of use will expose an edge case you hadn't quite noticed or something.
So you write another test to catch it, refactor the code again, and
go back to sleep.

> These are really exaggerations in my view. But maybe it is good to
> exaggerate a bit if this serves to convert more and more people ;)

That much is true, of course.  For those who don't know this approach,
I'll happily make it explicit: making sweeping claims and polarizing
statements is a hallmark of XP proponents, but we assume the audience
is adult enough to take such claims with a grain of salt and
investigate the merits of the claims for themselves.  The extreme
nature of the claims is no doubt intended (whether intentionally or
not) to encourage just that kind of skeptical investigation and
the resulting debate, to test the strength of the process.  If
I just went around saying "yeah, TDD is nice, but it won't solve
_all_ your problems", perhaps nobody would pay attention, and that
would, for them, be a shame I believe.  :-)

-Peter



From rimbalaya at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 30 23:43:27 2003
From: rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 20:43:27 -0700
Subject: Identity inconsistency and unification of types and classes
Message-ID: <6f03c4a5.0306301943.d822a6d@posting.google.com>

Hi,

With the great unification of types and classes, what will happen to the
following identity inconsistency?

>>> class myint(int): pass
... 
>>> a=int(1); b=int(1)
>>> a is b
1
>>> a=myint(1); b=myint(1)
>>> a is b 
0

Thanks
- Rim



From uwe at oss4u.com  Mon Jun  9 14:45:14 2003
From: uwe at oss4u.com (Uwe C. Schroeder)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:45:14 -0700
Subject: py2exe and dynamic modules
Message-ID: <ve9ldqsa3h1d9d@corp.supernews.com>

Hi,

I checked everything and it seems I'm the only one trying to do this.
I have a large application that dynamically loads plugins.
There is no way I can say at runtime what names the plugins have, so loading
them statically is not an option. 
The plugins are quite simple and contain one class only.
With a full python installation it's no problem to load them using
__import__. However in a py2exe deployment the importer is replaced, so
__import__ won't work anymore.
Also the directory where the plugins are stored is user dependant (on
windows in the profile tree) and is determined at runtime. The plugins
don't even exist at application start, they are transfered on request.

What I can say is that for one user the directory is always the same.
Is there a way to deploy this using py2exe (or whatever, although I like
py2exe for it's simplicity) ?

I can modify the program to store the plugins in a fixed place - but I don't
like this too much since then deploying it on *nix is a hassle for access
right reasons.

Is there any way to tell py2exe's importer to look in a certain directory ?
as said: currently I just add the directory to sys.path and do an
__import__.

Any hints ?

Thanks

        UC

--
Open Source Solutions 4U, LLC   2570 Fleetwood Drive
Phone:  +1 650 872 2425         San Bruno, CA 94066
Cell:   +1 650 302 2405         United States
Fax:    +1 650 872 2417



From andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk  Mon Jun 16 13:36:59 2003
From: andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk (Andrew Walkingshaw)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 17:36:59 GMT
Subject: Loop from 'aaaa' to 'tttt' ?
References: <slrnberu4u.khj.lschaps@x11.informatik.uni-bremen.de> <3EEDFD89.CD2677D8@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbes01r.hdg.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net>

In article <3EEDFD89.CD2677D8 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
>>>> set = 'acgt'
>>>> sets = [''.join(a,b,c,d) for a in set for b in set for c in set for d in set]
>>>> sets
> ['aaaa', 'aaac', 'aaag', 'aaat', 'aaca', 'aacc', 'aacg', 'aact', 'aaga', 'aagc',
>  'aagg', 'aagt', 'aata', 'aatc', 'aatg', 'aatt', 'acaa', 'acac', 'acag', 'acat',
> ...[snip]...
>  'ttgg', 'ttgt', 'ttta', 'tttc', 'tttg', 'tttt']
> 
>:-)

Lovely! I knew there must be a list-comprehension based answer. There
was a similar thread back in 2001, which contained the following answers
to the related problem of "find the combinations of the members of n
variable-length lists":

def CartesianProduct(alist):

  res = []

  if len(alist) < 2:
    for x in alist[0]:
      res.append([x])
  else:
    tails = CartesianProduct(alist[1:])
    for x in alist[0]:
      for t in tails:
        res.append([x]+t)
    
  return res

print CartesianProduct(["a","c","g","t" for x in range(4)])

being David Ullrich's recursive solution. My non-recursive solution was 
deliberately contrary at the time, and hasn't aged well :)

Anyway, the OP appears to be doing bioinformatics, so the general case
might be useful to him later...

- Andrew

-- 
Andrew Walkingshaw | andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Jun 30 11:58:15 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:58:15 -0500
Subject: Idiomatic way of repeating items in a sequence.
In-Reply-To: <f58803d.0306300326.705bad44@posting.google.com> (anlri@wmdata.com's
 message of "30 Jun 2003 04:26:17 -0700")
References: <f58803d.0306300326.705bad44@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m21xxby2ug.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "alr" == alr  <anlri at wmdata.com> writes:

    alr> reduce(lambda l, i: l + i, [[item] * repetitions for item in

This doesn't look too bad to me, but perhaps list comprehensions are
clearer?

  seq = ['a', 'b', 'c']
  print [x for x in seq for x in seq]






From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Mon Jun 16 21:43:25 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:43:25 GMT
Subject: Python as a Language Choice
References: <bckvg4$kdoar$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <hifsevksoqegp0hiun38onurbceteo8m48@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbesshs.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

Tim Rowe wrote:
> Cousin Stanley wrote:
>>   o Large and diverse set of Application Programming Interfaces
>>     available in many areas ...
> 
> Not really a factor for me; I just as often use a plain text editor.

I think you're thinking of IDEs (Integrated Development Environments),
not APIs.

    <http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?IDE>

> One factor for me that isn't in your list is the extensive
> availability of libraries such as numeric and the XML stuff.

That's what he meant by Application Programming Interface (API).

    <http://wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?API>

-- 
 \          "When I get real bored, I like to drive downtown and get a |
  `\         great parking spot, then sit in my car and count how many |
_o__)                 people ask me if I'm leaving."  -- Steven Wright |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jun 19 16:17:21 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 16:17:21 -0400
Subject: Tiger Hash Function in Python
References: <y2lIa.104936$lK4.2967901@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <bct5oh$6k4$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <y2lIa.104936$lK4.2967901 at twister1.libero.it>,
Mirco Romanato <painlord2k at yahoo.it> wrote:
>
>I'm thinkering with Python to build an utility (more specs at the end
>of the post) and I need to utilize the Tiger Hash function.
>I have not MSVC and run a Win box with the last Cygwin and Python
>2.2.3.
>
>There is any module that compile automagically with Cygwin, or a
>module that don't need to be compiled, only installed?

Why not write a Tiger hash module yourself?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Jun  9 23:16:42 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:16:42 +1200
Subject: Tkinter: Do you really need a "root"?
In-Reply-To: <bc2ta5$23nc$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
References: <c281f461.0306071450.553776ea@posting.google.com> <bc2ta5$23nc$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <bc3h92$eseqj$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

> In article <c281f461.0306071450.553776ea at posting.google.com>,
>  bobsmith327 at hotmail.com (Bob Smith) wrote:
>>from Tkinter import *
> 
>>root = Tk()
>>app = Frame(root)
>>root.mainloop()
>>
>>But do I really need root?...

Yes. This is an annoying quirk of Tk. If you don't
explicitly create a root window, Tkinter will create
one for you, but one must exist.

You can hide it if you want, though, by doing
root.withdraw().

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From goodger at python.org  Mon Jun 16 14:37:39 2003
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:37:39 -0400
Subject: Observer Pattern (if you got some spare time)
In-Reply-To: <3eee0283$1_1@news.vo.lu>
References: <3eee0283$1_1@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <bcl2kf$b8o$1@main.gmane.org>

Docutils uses an Observer pattern in a couple of places:
docutils.utils.Reporter, and docutils.statemachine.StateMachine.
They're very simple implementations, but I think that's the beauty
of Patterns in Python: most of the implementation details become
unnecessary.

-- 
David Goodger    http://starship.python.net/~goodger    Projects:
   * Python Docutils: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/
     (includes reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html)
   * The Go Tools Project: http://gotools.sourceforge.net/






From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Wed Jun  4 16:21:26 2003
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:21:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Efficient data flow between orthogonal C extensions?
Message-ID: <slrnbdsl66.21h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

I'm about to write a component-based data flow program, and I'm
pondering the design, partly when it comes to efficiency. Basically,
the system will instantiate a set of objects, set up in a directed
network-like structure, and they will pass data among themselves in a
stream-like fashion.

Performance may not be an issue to begin with, and most components
will probably be written -- or at least prototyped -- in Python.
However, if certain components perform hard computations, it should be
possible to replace them with extension objects written in C (or C++
or Fortran or whatever).

What I have described so far shouldn't be hard to achieve. However, I
have one addition requirement: If one object is passing data to
another, and both are written in C, the data passing should be as
efficient as possible. In other words, going through a data-passing
mechanism that is written in Python would be undesirable -- or so I
think. The exact format of the data may be modified according to the
mechanism chosen.

The simplest solution I've found so far is to pass chunks (arrays) of
c structs. Then I _can_ simply go through Python, and efficiency can
be had by lumping may structs together (i.e. the arrays have varying
lengths). In other words, a form of buffering. One drawback with this
is that it may require quite a bit of parameter tuning and tradeoffs
(e.g., buffer length vs. idle time).

A possibly obvious solution would be to write a C API for the
extension objects, and for the objects to interact directly. The
problem with this is that all the extensions would (as I understand
it) have to know about each other (in the form of #import statements),
and that is clearly undesirable. Each extension should only need to
know what it is told by the main coordinating system (which is written
in Python).

Are there any existing (hopefully elegant) solutions for this sort of
thing? Any ideas? I know I may be getting ahead of myself, thinking
about optimization before I've implemented anything, but I believe
this may turn out to be an important part of the basic design... :)

- M

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland                "In this house we obey the laws of
http://hetland.org                 thermodynamics!"    Homer Simpson



From cer1969 at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 17 16:39:45 2003
From: cer1969 at hotmail.com (cer1969 at hotmail.com)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 13:39:45 -0700
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <mailman.1055271799.1123.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <74500692.0306171239.b8fc748@posting.google.com>

Carlos Moreira <duduca007 at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
> >     >> 3) Discovering filter() and map().
> > 
> >     >> 4) Fortifying classes with __setattr__() and
> > friends.
> > 
> >     >> 4.5) Leaving if:, elif:, and else: on their
> > own lines for fear of
> >     >>      scorn or deprecation.
> > 
> >     5) Discovering list comprehensions and then
> > dumping filter() and map().
> 
>       6) Belive that "self" is not ugly

7) You start writing a simple script and when you are finished you
realize that you have a library



From ed at membled.com  Sat Jun 14 09:25:52 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 14:25:52 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org> <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <soqcnTLoVboNFX-jXTWcog@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <l1smqcdc4f.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

>You can read but not rebind variable in outer scope.  But this works:
>
>def make_counter():
>  counter = [0]
>  def incr():
>    counter[0] += 1
>    return counter[0]
>  return incr
>>>> c1=make_counter()
>>>> c2=make_counter()
>>>> print c1(), c1(), c2(), c2()
>1 2 1 2

Yes.  A similar technique can be used to simulate closures in other
languages, for example in C++

    #include <iostream>
    struct incr {
        int* c;
        incr(int *c) :c(c) {}
	int operator() { return ++c; }
    };
    typedef int *fi();
    fi make_counter()
    {
        int* counter = new int;
        return incr(counter);
    }
    int main()
    {
        c1 = make_counter();
        c2 = make_counter();
        std::cout << c1() << c1() << c2() << c2() << std::endl;
        return 0;
    }
    
(Sorry, my compiler is playing up so I have not tested the above
code.)

The point is that you have to wrap the integer explicitly in some kind
of container, you can't just 'capture' a variable without doing
anything extra and proeed to play about with its value from other
scopes.  A local variable is strictly local to the block that contains
it (in C++, it will be destroyed on exit from the block) and you can't
make it break free and swim about attached to some closure just by
returning a function that uses it.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Thu Jun 26 16:45:56 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:45:56 -0500
Subject: How to memoize functions?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330539BD8B@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Chris Reedy [mailto:creedy at mitretek.org] 
> Sent: Jueves, 26 de Junio de 2003 03:29 p.m.
> 
> The obvious way to memoize a function would be to keep a 
> dictionary with keys being tuples (or maybe dictionaries)
> of previous argument lists and values being the results of
> the previous computations.

> 
> Unfortunately, this will really mess up garbage collection, since 
> objects that are arguments could never be collected.

Why is this an objection?  What kind of objects are in the
argument tuples?

If storing the tuples is a problem, you could use instead
the hash value for the tuple; if you can be sure that no
collisions will occur, just change the above implementation:


class MemoizeFunction:
    hashfunc = hash
    def __init__(self, function):
        self.function = function
        self.memo = {}
    def __call__(self, *args):
        h = self.hashfunc(args)
        if h not in self.memo:
            self.memo[h] = self.function(*args)
        return self.memo[h]


So now the argument tuples won't be stored, only their hash.
Now, having the correct hash function is important.

>
> Something like weakref.WeakKeyDictionary seems to be the
> obvious solution. 
>

And, it's a whole new and improved can of worms.
What happens when a weakref dies?  You have to delete
the memo dictionary's relevant entry, right?  So,
when any of the argument objects leave scope and
die, your memo dies also.  :-/

>
> However, a WeakKeyDictionary won't work since it can't
> use a tuple as a key, and wouldn't do the right thing,
> even if it could.
>

Yup.

>
> The only solution I've got so far is to implement a new 
> class, imitating WeakKeyDictionary. I started down this road,
> but the implementation started getting a little involved,
> since I needed two dictionaries, one for the argument list
> -> result mapping and one to keep track of which objects
> appear in which argument lists (since an argument 
> tuple must be deleted when _any_ of its arguments becomes garbage).
>

Yup.

>
> So ... does anyone have any suggestions and/or has anyone 
> already done something like this (I couldn't find anything
> in the cookbook at ActiveState).
>

Seems to me that the best approach is to generate a hash function
from the argument tuple, and memoize in base of that hash value.

I don't think weakrefs will help you much here. :-(

>    Thanks in advance, Chris
>

-gustavo
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jun  8 19:35:45 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 01:35:45 +0200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <PbidnQB3TIQbEX-jXTWcpg@comcast.com> <l18yschlge.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <m3ptlouoq6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Ed Avis <ed at membled.com> writes:

> I've given several examples, a possible grammar rule (use simple_stmt)
> and a semantics (the same as a named def).

That would be an incompatible change. Currently

x = lambda:2
print x()

prints "2". Under your change, this would be the same as

def anon():
  2
x = anon
print x()

so it would print "None" instead.

Regards,
Martin



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun 18 12:45:39 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:45:39 -0400
Subject: use member functions to access data in Python classes?
References: <3064b51d.0306180815.75869d6f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF09733.E66F9995@engcorp.com>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> 
> In C++, it is generally recommended to declare the data within a class
> private and to access the data using member functions. Do experienced
> Python programmers usually use member functions to access data within
> classes, or do they access the data directly?

I follow the conventional approach used even by the Python libraries,
which have proven to be quite effective :-), by just accessing most
data directly.

If the type of access involved is more complicated that getting or 
setting, I naturally provide a method to perform the operation 
instead.

Note that the latest versions of Python have "properties" which will
allow you to combine the best (?) of both worlds by writing code as
though it had direct access but which actually calls methods under
the table.

-Peter



From h_schneider at marketmix.com  Sat Jun 14 02:26:16 2003
From: h_schneider at marketmix.com (Harald Schneider)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 08:26:16 +0200
Subject: Python Coredump on FreeBSD
References: <mailman.1052940442.4968.python-list@python.org> <ba0bk8$s1i$04$1@news.t-online.com> <0pCdnbUTkYU6W16jXTWcow@speakeasy.net> <ba0pcs$9vi$0@216.39.172.122> <ba0v60$71a$03$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1053034886.23483.python-list@python.org> <ba1vj6$j16$02$1@news.t-online.com> <ba34j1$18o$0@216.39.172.122> <badnoh$t0e$04$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1053878763.24409.python-list@python.org> <bc4qh8$mp7$03$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1055339538.2010.python-list@python.org> <bc9j7q$q2q$05$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1055467105.26563.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcef66$6oo$00$1@news.t-online.com>

> I hope this means your failing sre samples now work too?

Yes they do -- thanks! :-)

--Harald





From dave at nullcube.com  Thu Jun  5 04:38:01 2003
From: dave at nullcube.com (Dave Harrison)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:38:01 +1000
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
In-Reply-To: <bbmtpc$1b9$1@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com> <bbmtpc$1b9$1@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <20030605083801.GA1238@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>

Just as a side mention you might also be in a class,

in which case the 'global'  (read class-wide) variable
is accessed as self.variableName

being forced to reference with self is a useful bug stopper
if you want - for some reason - to have a local variable with the same
name as the global variable.

eg. where the global variable arg has been defined as 2

def foo(self, arg):
	return arg+self.arg

print 'Global : '+str(self.arg)
self.foo(2)
print 'Local plus Global : '+str(foo)


Michael Mayhew (mayhew at cis.ohio-state.edu):
> Howdy,
> 
>     To address the first problem, the following sample worked for me:
> 
> def blah(arg):
>      arg[:] = []
>      return arg
> 
> I think the reason is that using the slice operation, you are still, as you
> noticed, using methods on the "object reference" and so can change the
> mutable object in place.
> 
> For the second example, this sounds like a question of scope as v is
> declared in your global scope, but arg is local to the function. If you
> wanted to change v itself in the function blah, you would write
> 
> def blah():
>     global v
>     v = v + 1
> 
> v = 1
> blah()
> Now v equals 2!
> 
> If you wanted to simply change the local function reference to v, you would
> have to return the result and assign it to v, like so:
> 
> def blah(arg):
>     arg = arg+1
>     return arg
> 
> v = blah(v)
> Now v equals 2!
> 
> 
> I hope this helps somewhat,
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From jimmy at retzlaff.com  Thu Jun 19 06:55:24 2003
From: jimmy at retzlaff.com (Jimmy Retzlaff)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 03:55:24 -0700
Subject: Binary adresse for localhost
Message-ID: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F0F1DD3@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>

Benoit BESSE (benoit.besse at club-internet.fr) wrote:
> for "224.4.0.1" the binary adresse is 0xe0040001L.
> What is the corresponding convertion for 127.0.0.1.

I'll offer a few approaches in the hopes of making this somewhat Python
related. :)

>>> import socket
>>> socket.inet_aton('224.4.0.1')
'\xe0\x04\x00\x01'
>>> socket.inet_aton('127.0.0.1')
'\x7f\x00\x00\x01'

>>> map(hex, [127, 0, 0, 1])
['0x7f', '0x0', '0x0', '0x1']

>>> '0x%.2x%.2x%.2x%.2x' % (127, 0, 0, 1)
'0x7f000001'


Jimmy




From ulope at gmx.de  Mon Jun  9 11:24:48 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:24:48 +0200
Subject: Call a Python file with parameters
References: <Dr1Fa.38532$j9%.18920@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <bc2al0$e75bf$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>

"martin z" <pxtl at hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Dr1Fa.38532$j9%.18920 at news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> I've asked this before, but last time I was too vague.  So, I've got a
> simpler request: I want to write and call Python files as if they were
> functions.  The problem is simple: if you write a Python file with only a
> def-statement, you don't get a file you can run with arguments - you get a
> file that builds a function.  If you use the argc and argv syntax, you get
a
> file you can run with arguments, but the arguments are strings.
Basically,
> I want to have a Python file that, when I compile it, I get nothing but a
> function, or something I can use like a function, that I can shove a
> parameter tuple into.  Instead I get a code object (no argument tuple) or
a
> module (containing functions).
>

-------
# cat func.py
def somefunc(blah1, blah2):
    return (blah1, blah2)

# cat prog.py
import func

print func.somefunc(1,2)

-------------------

HTH

Ciao Ulrich





From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Jun  3 17:53:44 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:53:44 +0200
Subject: long-term release schedule?
Message-ID: <20030603215344.GA15000@nl.linux.org>

Hi,

does a long-term release schedule exist? I know that, after Python 2.3,
Python 2.4 will follow. I have also read that between minor releases,
18-24 months are spent, which means that only by the end of 2004
Python 2.4a1 is to be released. But what comes after Python 2.4? 2.5
or 3.0? Is this written down or summarized somethere?

yours,
Gerrit.




From suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com  Sat Jun 14 13:27:20 2003
From: suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com (Suresh  Kumar)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 17:27:20 -0000
Subject: Canvas rectangle filling
Message-ID: <20030614172720.24578.qmail@webmail18.rediffmail.com>


Thanks Daniel,
     Thanks for your timely help. I got it. I created a "xmb" file and filled my rectangle. Still i have some problems that i would like to bring your attention. 
       
     i have created a stack of rectangles all of same size, say 200 pixel wide and 100 pixel height. Each rectangle is given some color and stipple to "gray75". Then i placed some samll rectangles of some size, say 50 pixel wide and 50 pixel height , on each bigger rectangle and assigened some color and stipple to "lines.xbm". I got the o/p such that the smaller rectangles are filled with "line.xbm". But the samller rectangles are looking so transparent. It means, all areas other than ocupied by "line.xbm" is filled with bigger rectangle's color. My requirement is, all smaller rectangles should be filled with "lines.xbm" and they should not be transparent. 

   My coding is as follows:
   
self.canvas.create_rectangle ( 100,100,200,200, fill='blue', stipple='gray75)
self.canvas.create_rectangle( 100,200,200,300,fill='red', stipple="gray50")
self.canvas.create_rectangle((100,300,200,400, fill='black', stipple="gray25")
######### Small rectagnles
self.canvas.create_rectangle(100,150,150,200, fill='black', stipple="@line.xbm")
self.canvas.create_rectangle(100,250,150,300, fill='black', stipple="@line.xbm")

    I attached my required o/p in this mail as "sample.gif". Have a   
look and give me your suggestion and me let me how to avoid transparancy.

With regeards,
V.Suresh Kumar.
  

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 Abel Daniel wrote :
>Suresh  Kumar wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Iam using python/tkinter/pmw in windows.
> > Most of graphics languages provides facility to fill the rectangcle with
> > horizantal/vertical lines. I know that in tkinter we can fill the canvas
> > rectangle's interior using "stipple". But my customer is expecting the
> > rectangles to be filled with  diagnal/vertical/horizantal lines. Is
> > there any direct way is available in tkinter/Pmw to fill the rectangle with
> > lines?
> > or i have to use "create_line" command explicitly?
>Well, creating the lines invidually is an option, but i think it's a
>rather poor one. You would have to figure out the endpoints of each
>line, which might work for rectangles, but will get almost impossible
>for circles, or arcs.
>(Not to mention that you would be creating a lot of lines, which i guess
>would impact performance.)
>
>I think the best idea would be to use stipple with custom bitmaps. For
>example the following xbm file will create diagonal lines:
>----8<----
>/* Created with The GIMP */
>#define lines_width 16
>#define lines_height 16
>static unsigned char lines_bits[] = {
>    0x11, 0x11, 0x22, 0x22, 0x44, 0x44, 0x88, 0x88, 0x11, 0x11, 0x22, 0x22,
>    0x44, 0x44, 0x88, 0x88, 0x11, 0x11, 0x22, 0x22, 0x44, 0x44, 0x88, 0x88,
>    0x11, 0x11, 0x22, 0x22, 0x44, 0x44, 0x88, 0x88 };
>----8<-----
>Copy-paste this into a file, call it 'lines.xbm', and use it like:
>canvas.create_rectangle(100,100,150,150, stipple='@lines.xbm', fill='black')
>
>There might be two problems:
>1) path to the xbm files. If you put your xbm files somewhere else than
>the current directory, I think you will have to use the full path, like:
>... stipple='@/path/to/file.xbm' ...
>Which might complicate the matters as you have to keep track of where
>your xbm files are, and use the appropriate path.
>
>2) creating the xbm files themselves. If you only need some options like
>'diagonal lines, close the each other' or 'vertical lines, far apart'
>you could create some xbm files, and only provide those. (Essentially
>hardcoding thos patterns.) If you need more flexibility, like 'lines at
>60 degrees angle, 2 pixels wide and 7 pixels apart' you will have to
>generate xbm files on the fly. A way of pipeing the xbm data would come
>handy in this case, but I don't know if such exists. You might have to
>save the generated xbm data to be able to pass the filename to tkinter.
>I think generating the xbm files on the fly will be pretty easy, as they
>are simply black&white bitmaps.
>
>According to
>http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/x2861-options.htm
>which is describing the options of arc object:
>"As of Tk 8.0p2, the stipple option is ignored on the Windows platform.
>To draw stippled pieslices or chords, you have to create corresponding
>polygons."
>
>But I think that doesn't affect other objects. (I didn't test on Windows)
>
>Abel Daniel
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tutor maillist  -  Tutor at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
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From woooee at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 18 18:28:35 2003
From: woooee at yahoo.com (Curly Joe)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:28:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
Message-ID: <20030618222835.74642.qmail@web20505.mail.yahoo.com>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the compiler
break all of these solutions down into approximately
the same thing? The compiler has to physically step
through the list one by one no matter how you phrase
the code, so there would be no gain in speed.  There
might be a small speedup for larger lists if you
placed the previous element in a variable and compare
the variable to this element, because then the
compiler would only have to access one element instead
of two elements in each pass.  But aside from that it
seems that it is all window dressing IMHO.  I'm no
expert on lists.  Good question though.


> --- In python-list at yahoogroups.com, wrbt at e...
> (Larry) wrote:
> > I need to take a list (probably 20k to 40k
> elements) of numbers and
> > remove consecutive duplicates. Non consecutive
> duplicates are ok.
> > 
> > Example: [6,3,3,3,5,7,6,3,4,4,3] =>
> [6,3,5,7,6,3,4,3]
> > 
> > The 3 and 6 can appear more than once in the
> result set because
> > they're separated by another value. Obviously this
> is trivial to
> > accomplish by walking thru the list and building a
> new one (or yanking
> > elements out of the existing one) but I'm curious
> if anyone knows of a
> > more clever way, with speed being a goal more than
> memory usage.
> > -- 
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




From jcazier at decode.is  Tue Jun 10 12:02:35 2003
From: jcazier at decode.is (jean-Baptiste Cazier)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 09:02:35 -0700
Subject: Rsh and background execution PB
Message-ID: <ad50964e.0306100802.74131bc7@posting.google.com>

Hi !

I am trying to run a python script in the background executing
regurlary a remote command.
However if I try to run the script in the background, it is suspended
as soon as it starts. But it works fine in the foreground.

Below is a simplified version of the problem
-------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/python

import os
import string

def main():

  print "start rsh"
 # os.system('rsh lcs301 "ls" ')
  try:
    lines = string.split(os.popen('rsh lcs301 "ls|head"
').read(),'\n')
  except :
    print "error"
 
  for i in lines[:-1]:
    print i
  return 0

if __name__ =="__main__":

  main()
---------------------------------

And the command line looks like this:
No problem in foreground:

~/devel/queue $ pb.py
start rsh
41256904005028C06DB9DE8487E42B69C1256C2A0048FE7A_VT367501_C300Z_A2_GM1_0409.pdf
718913.lcs3.ER
718913.lcs3.OU
718937.lcs3.ER
718937.lcs3.OU
AgronomDanisco.doc
C11-markers-f-JB.xls
C11.map
CS-2002-17.ps
CazierNIHBio_JT.2.doc

But in the background:

~/devel/queue $ pb.py &
[1] 24541
~/devel/queue $ start rsh


[1]+  Stopped                 pb.py
~/devel/queue $ fg
pb.py
41256904005028C06DB9DE8487E42B69C1256C2A0048FE7A_VT367501_C300Z_A2_GM1_0409.pdf
718913.lcs3.ER
718913.lcs3.OU
718937.lcs3.ER
718937.lcs3.OU
AgronomDanisco.doc
C11-markers-f-JB.xls
C11.map
CS-2002-17.ps
CazierNIHBio_JT.2.doc



Any solution to the problem ?

Thanks

Kve?ja

Jean-Baptiste



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Jun  8 14:59:55 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:59:55 -0400
Subject: imghdr.what failed to identify JPEG
References: <e305e171.0306071703.79d45683@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055048975.23465.python-list@python.org> <e305e171.0306080318.5e7d08b9@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055086335.1441.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vH-dnaAw1vI6FX6jXTWcqg@comcast.com>

"Steven Taschuk" <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1055086335.1441.python-list at python.org...
> Quoth Arsenal:
>   [...]
> > Bytes [6:10] for my 52 jpg files are 'Exif'. So if imghdr.what
adds
> > this additonal check, all of my jpgs would be correctly
identified.
>
> That would be easy enough to implement, but I really have no idea
> whether it would be the Right Thing.
>
> The docs explicitly say that 'jpeg' is returned for JFIF JPEGs;
> not, that implies, for EXIF JPEGs.  I don't know what the
> differences between these standards are, nor whether or to what
> extent imghdr.what ought to be sensitive to the distinction.

This strikes me as something reasonable to submit an SF patch or bug
report for.

TJR





From ee01b092 at ee.iitm.ernet.in  Sun Jun  8 22:28:41 2003
From: ee01b092 at ee.iitm.ernet.in (Vinoo vasudevan)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 07:58:41 +0530
Subject: the 'in' operator and class instances
Message-ID: <20030609021857.M75806@ee.iitm.ernet.in>

Hi,
 Thanks all for replying to this question. Just a few comments. As for as the
GeometricShape example is concerned that class has to implement __contains__
anyway, so this would override the default behaviour namely memebership
testing w/o any problems. 
 The fact that redefining __contains__ would mean we lose the ability to use
'in' to check for membership and would have to fall back on hasattr(..) means
this ain't a good idea. Thanks for pointing this out. My reason for asking
this question is cos I thought it would make the syntax a little more
convenient. As a newbie after using 'in' with nearly all the basic types it
just felt "logical" :-) to write "... if member in instance: ... ". 

Vinoo

P.S. Sorry I can't enclose the previous mails in this thread as I deleted them
by mistake.





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun 29 14:48:33 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:48:33 -0600
Subject: Re/Unresolved bug?
In-Reply-To: <006e01c33dd4$1f3d54a0$6401a8c0@boxen>; from sabu@pure-elite.org on Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 08:19:35PM -0400
References: <001c01c33d4d$453a9870$6401a8c0@boxen> <20030628072655.A379@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus> <006e01c33dd4$1f3d54a0$6401a8c0@boxen>
Message-ID: <20030629124833.A487@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Xavier:
  [top-posting fixed]
> From: "Steven Taschuk" <staschuk at telusplanet.net>
> > Could you post a minimal example of code which provokes this
> > behaviour?
  [...]
> Thanks for your reply.  Here is the exact, waiting to be fixed code:
> http://sabu.net/routekill.py

That is very far from a minimal example.  What you should do is
cut out some code, verify that the problem still exists, and
repeat until you can't cut out anything without making the problem
go away.  Doing so has two advantages: first, a short example is
much more likely to provoke responses here, and second, the
process itself might teach you what the problem is.

Having had some spare time today, I've done this for you.  Here's
the (not *quite* minimal, actually) result:

    def addroutes(IP, METHOD):
        global METHOD

    def main():
        global VERBOSE
        VERBOSE = '1'
        global VERBOSE

    print 'foo'

On my machine, with 2.2.2 this code issues the SyntaxWarning and
then segfaults, and on 2.3 issues the SyntaxWarning and dies
without printing 'foo'.

There are two things wrong with this code.  To get it running,
first remove the second global statement for VERBOSE.  Once that's
done, the code will start producing
    SyntaxError: name 'METHOD' is local and global
Thus the second thing you need to do is to decide whether you want
METHOD to be an argument to addroutes() or a global variable to
that function, and then either remove the global statement or
emend the argument list.

Once you've done these two things the code will run; I leave
determining whether it works to you.

(Python's reaction to this code *is* buggy -- it seems that the
SyntaxWarning interferes with the SyntaxError somehow.  (My
original suspicion that the SyntaxWarning was irrelevant was
wrong.)  I'll be looking into this today.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"What I find most baffling about that song is that it was not a hit."
                                          -- Tony Dylan Davis (CKUA)




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun 16 22:10:34 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:10:34 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEDEC19.CA5786DC@engcorp.com> <slrnbesnch.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <3EEE789A.3DD19DA4@engcorp.com>

Ben Finney wrote:
> 
> You, the programmer (or team of programmers) will never run the program
> the same way as the customer will, except by blind accident.  You can't
> know what the customer will do with it ahead of time, and neither can
> the customer.

Bonus: XP specifies an "on-site customer" who pretty much does just what
you suggest.

> Testing cannot try more than a miniscule fraction of the combination of
> inputs and usage that the customers will subject it to.  

Quite debatable.  Automated acceptance tests, by definition, cover the
bulk of the functionality that has been designed in, since the only
functionality that's supposed to be designed in (under XP) is that which
is *required* by the acceptance tests.  Anything not covered by tests
was therefore put added inappropriately by an over-zealous developer.
(Again, an obvious simplification, but not much of one.)

> Automated testing, carefully thought out, can increase this fraction
> significantly; but "run the software before you give it to the customer"
> is a laughably inferior way of finding bugs.

I agree, that would indeed be a laughable, not to mention ineffective, approach.

-Peter



From lorenzo at mysurname.net  Sat Jun 14 10:30:12 2003
From: lorenzo at mysurname.net (Lorenzo Bolognini)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 14:30:12 GMT
Subject: wxPython download
Message-ID: <UjGGa.89780$pR3.1904020@news1.tin.it>

Hi all,

didn't know how to report it to the wxPython coders but it seems (at least
to me and someone else) that wxPython downloads (all versions) aren't
working @ sf.net

Thank You,
Lorenzo





From alex_nanou at pochtamt.ru  Fri Jun  6 13:12:59 2003
From: alex_nanou at pochtamt.ru (Alex A. Naanou)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 10:12:59 -0700
Subject: Postfix/Prefix Operators (++,--)
References: <1054878539.22405.4.camel@mylinuxsite.com> <mailman.1054880245.29052.python-list@python.org> <bbpgnm$buit0$1@ID-196014.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <def34119.0306060912.1ee1c37a@posting.google.com>

Peter Slizik <peter.slizik at pobox.sk> wrote in message news:<bbpgnm$buit0$1 at ID-196014.news.dfncis.de>...

[...]

> Gur Mra bs Clguba, ol Gvz Crgref
> 
> Ornhgvshy vf orggre guna htyl.
> Rkcyvpvg vf orggre guna vzcyvpvg.
> Fvzcyr vf orggre guna pbzcyrk.
> Pbzcyrk vf orggre guna pbzcyvpngrq.
> Syng vf orggre guna arfgrq.
> Fcnefr vf orggre guna qrafr.
> Ernqnovyvgl pbhagf.
> Fcrpvny pnfrf nera'g fcrpvny rabhtu gb oernx gur ehyrf.
> Nygubhtu cenpgvpnyvgl orngf chevgl.
> Reebef fubhyq arire cnff fvyragyl.
> Hayrff rkcyvpvgyl fvyraprq.
> Va gur snpr bs nzovthvgl, ershfr gur grzcgngvba gb thrff.
> Gurer fubhyq or bar-- naq cersrenoyl bayl bar --boivbhf jnl gb qb vg.
> Nygubhtu gung jnl znl abg or boivbhf ng svefg hayrff lbh'er Qhgpu.
> Abj vf orggre guna arire.
> Nygubhtu arire vf bsgra orggre guna *evtug* abj.
> Vs gur vzcyrzragngvba vf uneq gb rkcynva, vg'f n onq vqrn.
> Vs gur vzcyrzragngvba vf rnfl gb rkcynva, vg znl or n tbbq vqrn.
> Anzrfcnprf ner bar ubaxvat terng vqrn -- yrg'f qb zber bs gubfr!

Hint: try using the "rotor" module on the string... :)
   ...you will definitely know allot more about why people like python!!

                                                    Best Regards...
                                                               Alex.



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Thu Jun  5 10:40:49 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:40:49 -0500 
Subject: Loop over list of pairs
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304FC4434@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Kevin Carlson [mailto:khcarlso at bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:41 AM
> 
> Thomas G?ttler wrote:
> 
> >Hi!
> >
> >What is the prefered way of loop over
> >a list like this?
> > mylist=[1, "one", 2, "two", 3, "three"]
> >
> 
> How about this:
> 
> for i in range(0, len(mylist), 2) :
>   print mylist[i], mylist[i+1]  # or whatever you want to do..
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Kevin
>

How about this:

from __future__ import generators

def Pairs(iterable):
   """Returns pairwise iterator"""
   I = iter(iterable)
   while 1:
      yield I.next(), I.next()

for p in Pairs(mylist):
   print p

--gca

--
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From eat at joes.com  Thu Jun 26 23:06:04 2003
From: eat at joes.com (Jason Kratz)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 03:06:04 GMT
Subject: stupid question about os.listdir
In-Reply-To: <slrnbfnc0n.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
References: <MTNKa.2930$BM.1845254@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <slrnbfnc0n.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <wwOKa.3311$BM.1852863@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

Ben Finney wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:22:36 GMT, Jason Kratz wrote:
> 
>>os.listdir takes a pathname as an arg but it doesn't actually list the
>>contents of the dir I pass in.
> 
> 
> Please reduce the problem to a simple script that others can examine,
> and post it here.  If the behaviour is as you say, it should be only a
> few lines long:
> 
>     import os
>     os.listdir( 'somethingyouthinkshouldwork' )
> 

Ben...I tried the above in a new script file (with print os.listdir) and 
it works as I thought my other should.   Which means i'm doing something 
wrong when passing the path in to my function but I'm not sure what.  ugh.




From rowen at cesmail.net  Tue Jun 24 15:13:38 2003
From: rowen at cesmail.net (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:13:38 -0700
Subject: cvs checkout question
Message-ID: <rowen-23834F.12133824062003@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

I'm trying to check out the current Python (read only) via anonymous cvs 
as per the instructions on the "Development Tools" page 
<http://python.org/dev/tools.html> and it's failing

% cvs -d:pserver:anonymous at cvs.python.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/python 
login   (all one one line)
(Logging in to reowen at cvs.python.sourceforge.net)
CVS password: 

but regardless of what password I try I get one of two messages:

cvs [login aborted]: authorization failed: server 
cvs.python.sourceforge.net rejected access

or

cvs [login aborted]: recv() from server cvs.python.sourceforge.net: 
Connection reset by peer

I have a sourceforge account, so I also tried logging in as me and that 
didn't work any better. Any hints? I'm on a MacOS X machine in case that 
matters, but I have checked stuff out from other cvs servers.

-- Russell



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jun 10 19:15:24 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:15:24 -0500
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <3EE6646E.47555429@alcyone.com>
References: <mailman.1055217438.10041.python-list@python.org>
	 <dd5454fb.0306101346.201331fc@posting.google.com>
	 <3EE65444.907E6D87@alcyone.com>
	 <mailman.1055283799.2307.python-list@python.org>
	 <3EE6646E.47555429@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <1055286924.683.58.camel@lothlorien>

On Tue, 2003-06-10 at 18:06, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> I think that's a good summary.  `is' sounds like a declaration, whereas
> `as' sounds more like declaring properties, which is what we're doing. 
> Ideal would be a new keyword that really says what we mean, like `has',
> but the inertia against adding new keywords makes that scenario far less
> likely.

"Has" doesn't seem good, because it implies that the function has a
property (of being a classmethod or something), when in fact the
function is being replaced/wrapped.  

  Ian






From hannibalkannibal at yahoo.no  Sun Jun 22 10:02:48 2003
From: hannibalkannibal at yahoo.no (Eirik)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:02:48 +0200
Subject: Tkinter problem
References: <kueJa.1349$os2.18711@news2.e.nsc.no> <mailman.1056276938.31254.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bIiJa.1398$os2.19589@news2.e.nsc.no>

"Chad Netzer" <cnetzer at sonic.net> skrev i melding
news:mailman.1056276938.31254.python-list at python.org...
>
> > How can I make it wait until I press the button before the message in
the
> > label comes?
>
> By making a function that sets the text, and then passing that function
> to the button 'command' option.   NOTE - you pass the function to the
> 'command' option, you do NOT call the function and pass the results to
> the 'command' option.  ie:
>
> import sys
> from Tkinter import *
>
> def my_test_callback():
>     global root
>     root.t.set("Test-Text")
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     root = Tk()
>     root.t = StringVar()
>
>     root.l1 = Label(root, textvariable = root.t)
>     root.b1 = Button(root, text = "Button", command = my_test_callback)
>     root.bE = Button(root, text = "End", command = sys.exit)
>
>     root.l1.grid()
>     root.b1.grid()
>     root.bE.grid()
>
>     root.mainloop()
>
>
>
> If you haven't seen it already, I recommend:
>
> http://home.att.net/~stephen_ferg/thinking_in_tkinter/
>
> --
> Chad Netzer <cnetzer at sonic dot net>
>
>

What does the "if __name__=='__main__':" mean? I do not fully understand
this example.






From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jun 10 12:35:20 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:35:20 -0400
Subject: When do ActivePython update?
References: <bc4mvv$j7l$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0K2dnQ8d2MpVlXujXTWcpQ@comcast.com>

"Hyperion" <AgentSmith at Matrix.com> wrote in message
news:bc4mvv$j7l$1 at news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Just wondering when ActivePython updates there version of python to
the
> latest version-build.
>
> Python is now 2.2.3 is it not?

Less than two weeks ago, I believe.  AP2.2.2 was out within a month of
the 2.2.2 release, so give them another week or two.

TJR





From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jun 15 18:05:29 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:05:29 -0400
Subject: popen3 child_stdin
References: <bcinsu$hui$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3EECEDA9.62F25005@engcorp.com>

ddoc wrote:
> 
> popen3(cmd[, mode[, bufsize]]) Executes cmd as a sub-process. Returns the
> file objects (child_stdin, child_stdout, child_stderr). Availability: Unix,
> Windows. New in version 2.0.
> 
> I may be having a moment of brain fade, but I can't see how I get hold of
> child_stdin etc, having started up a DOS program with popen3

If you mean you don't understand what the docs are telling you, then
this example based on the above text might help:

  childStdin, childStdout, childStderr = popen3(cmd, mode, bufsize)

The return value is expressed as a tuple of three elements....

-Peter



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 17 12:42:14 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:42:14 -0700
Subject: Python as a Language Choice
References: <bckvg4$kdoar$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <2ec1bc1c.0306161417.7f890a66@posting.google.com> <slrnbethtb.4vn.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <bcngb4$kobq1$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

| Here's one more. =)
|
  Dave ...

  Glad to find other local users ...

| I've been happily writing Python for almost two years.
|

  I'm a dinosaur-aged programmer,
  but have been coding Python for just over a year ...

| Went to ASU for Computer Science and graduated in Fall of 2001.

  I did a couple of days post-installation training and configuration
  for the ASU CS dept on the Multics systems that Honeywell donated
  to ASU back in 1981 or 1982 ... can't remember which year ...

  I don't know how long the Multics machine lasted at ASU,
  but it sure would be nice to have access to it now
  as there are no other surviving Multics systems
  that I know of ... http://www.multicians.org/

| I now work in Scottsdale and just bought a house
| in North Phoenix.

  Are you working in Python ???

  I'm a South-Side-Rat living just off Central
  about a mile north of South Mountain ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Thu Jun 26 11:48:33 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 26 Jun 2003 08:48:33 -0700
Subject: Reading a binary file
References: <3EFAA842.1070505@semafor.ch> <20030626083305.GF17335@frobozz> <mailman.1056620083.21078.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0306260748.39ff6707@posting.google.com>

You need to convert the hex to int with radix 16.

c='a'
h=binascii.hexlify(c)
d=int(h, 16)

Anand Pillai


Sorin Marti <mas at semafor.ch> wrote in message news:<mailman.1056620083.21078.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi Andrew,
> 
> Thanks for your answer!
> 
> Andrew Bennetts wrote:
> > On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 10:01:06AM +0200, Sorin Marti wrote:
> > 
> >>But now I need the hex values of the binary file.
> > 
> > You can get the hex value of a 1-character string with hex(ord(char)), e.g.:
> > 
> >     >>> char = 'a'
> >     >>> hex(ord(char))
> >     '0x61'
> > 
> 
> That is not exactly what I meant. I've found a solution (a is the binary 
> data):
> 
> b = binascii.hexlify(a)
> 
> For example it gives me C8 which is a HEX-Value. How to change this one 
> into a decimal? (The decimal should be 130, right?)
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
>      Sorin



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jun  5 11:38:55 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:38:55 +0100
Subject: proxy to monitor http requests
References: <bbnmmu$mgv$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3EDF640F.89817FB6@hotmail.com>

Achim Domma wrote:

> I want to analyze how differnet soap libs build their xml messages. To do
> this I want to put a proxy between my calling code and the server to display
> the requests and responses. Does something like that already exists in
> python? 

I answered a similar question a few days ago.

http://tinyurl.com/djvz

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From jason at tishler.net  Tue Jun  3 11:58:33 2003
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 11:58:33 -0400
Subject: Imaging-1.1.4 on Cygwin (Re: Can PIL be installed under Cygwin?)
In-Reply-To: <200306022329.IAA20935@suzuki611.ngo.okisoft.co.jp>
References: <20030602120330.GA2044@tishler.net>
 <200306022329.IAA20935@suzuki611.ngo.okisoft.co.jp>
Message-ID: <20030603155833.GA1556@tishler.net>

SUZUKI Hisao,

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 08:29:36AM +0900, SUZUKI Hisao wrote:
> In <20030602120330.GA2044 at tishler.net>, Jason Tishler wrote:
> > AFAICT, Chuck and your procedure (and patch) are essentially the
> > same.  The only extra steps that his one had are:
> > 
> >     1. creating some missing symlinks
> >     2. rebasing the system to prevent the known Cygwin fork()
> >        problem
> > 
> > Step 1 may have been obviated by the newer Cygwin Tcl/Tk packages
> > and Step 2 is likely necessary with your approach too.
> 
> No, step 2 is not necessary with my approach.

OK, but if you use Cygwin Python, shared extensions, and fork(), then
you will need to rebase your DLLs sooner rather than later.

> The key difference is not to import _tkinter in my setup.py.

Oops, I missed that!  Anyway, that's cheating! :,)

BTW, rebasing is much easier now that I contributed the rebase package
to the standard Cygwin distribution:

    http://www.tishler.net/jason/software/rebase/rebase-2.2.README

Jason

-- 
PGP/GPG Key: http://www.tishler.net/jason/pubkey.asc or key servers
Fingerprint: 7A73 1405 7F2B E669 C19D  8784 1AFD E4CC ECF4 8EF6




From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Mon Jun 30 09:57:21 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:57:21 +0200
Subject: Newbie: "compiling" scrips (?)
In-Reply-To: <3EF9CBD8.F3AFF856@hotmail.com>; from alanmk@hotmail.com on Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 05:20:40PM +0100
References: <bdbrv2$9un$02$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1056537281.12123.python-list@python.org> <bdc160$n2i$01$1@news.t-online.com> <M4gKa.319364$3n5.125426@news2.central.cox.net> <mailman.1056552526.17315.python-list@python.org> <3EF9CBD8.F3AFF856@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20030630155721.A6906@prim.han.de>

Alan Kennedy wrote:
> There are many pieces to what the PyPy people are trying to do, and they have a
> lot of work to do building the separate pieces, with nothing to show until it's
> all ready to fit nicely together. But I think their overall model looks
> promising. So hopefully, with the description above, you'll be in a better
> position to understand the content of these links.
> 
> http://codespeak.net/moin/pypy/moin.cgi/PyPythonCore
> http://codespeak.net/moin/pypy/moin.cgi/ObjectModel
> http://codespeak.net/moin/pypy/moin.cgi/BytecodeCompiler
> http://codespeak.net/moin/pypy/moin.cgi/BytecodeInterpreter
> 
> For a look at the kinds of tricks that optimising interpreters can use, in the
> java world, take a look over this link
> 
> http://java.sun.com/products/hotspot/docs/whitepaper/Java_Hotspot_v1.4.1/Java_HSpot_WP_v1.4.1_1002_1.html
> 
> Looking at the PyPy object model, I can't help but wonder how they're going to
> deal with continuations? (If full integration of stackless is the intention).

Hi Alan, 

The current idea is to implement "stackless" (or continuations) at the 
code-generation level.  The idea is that instead of causing "interpreter-recursion" 
when calling a function in python we setup a data structure and issue a "goto" 
to the main-loop which then dispatches the next runnable frame. Doing
this manually at the C-level (or Python-level for that matter) is
tedious and error-prone. That's why we will try to get our
code-generator to do this for us. Ergo you can't see it in our
PyPy object model because it's not there yet :-)

The current plan is to head for a first code-generator on the next
PyPy-Sprint probably in Berlin end of September. 

cheers,

    holger




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Jun 18 09:51:53 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:51:53 +1000
Subject: How to recognize a generator function?
In-Reply-To: <200306180321.35471.tecnic@codidoc.com>
References: <200306180321.35471.tecnic@codidoc.com>
Message-ID: <20030618135153.GA6354@frobozz>

On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 03:21:35AM -0700, Oscar Rambla wrote:
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> I'm not been able to find a solution to the following:
> 
> How to recognize if a function is a generator function before calling it?

How do you know what *any* function returns before you call it?

-Andrew.





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Thu Jun 26 21:48:14 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 11:38:14 +0950
Subject: List of lists
References: <ekNKa.66745$Io.6262503@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbfn9oe.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:44:42 GMT, Mike wrote:
> How do I extract a list of lists from a user defined function

Depends how that function is returning its values.  The most obvious,
and simplest way to do what you describe, is to have the function return
a list of lists, as its return value.

If you mean something else, you'll have to be more descriptive of what
you actually want to do.

> and print the results as strings for each list?

The 'repr()' method of any object will return a printable string of the
object's representation.

-- 
 \       "Kill myself? Killing myself is the last thing I'd ever do."  |
  `\                                          -- Homer, _The Simpsons_ |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From chris.lyon at spritenote.co.uk  Fri Jun 13 07:02:59 2003
From: chris.lyon at spritenote.co.uk (Chris Lyon)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 04:02:59 -0700
Subject: Scanning for local servers, getting a broadcast address
References: <d232c5e.0306090158.6d3c99d6@posting.google.com> <c9d82136.0306090725.1e351fe9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d232c5e.0306130302.2f0d38ea@posting.google.com>

Again much thanks for the help
here is my present code I would appreciate any comments.

I would have liked to have used the write list of the select statement
but I found that If I did that the routine never exited because the
write thread is always ready and the timeout doesn't start. I could
clear the write list inside the while but wouldn't I still be in a
loop if I couldn't write in the first place?


Anyway here they are:-

remote server code:-

import socket
import select
myname = socket.getfqdn(socket.gethostname())

s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,socket.SOCK_DGRAM,
socket.IPPROTO_UDP)
s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_BROADCAST,1)
s.bind(('',20031))

while 1:
     
    (rfd,wfd,efd) = select.select([s] ,[] ,[])
    if s in rfd:       # I have a message 
        (string, address) = s.recvfrom(100)
        print 'RECEIVED:-',string, address
        if string == 'scan\n':       # I've been requested by a scan
to identify myself
            print 'replying to scan from ',address
            s.sendto('IAM '+ myname +'\n',address)


questioning server code:-

import socket
import select

remotedict = {}
broadcast_attempts = 3   # I assume UDP broadcasts can get dropped
like anything else in UDP
reply_attempts = 3       # three re-trys on recieving a broadcast
ack_flag =  1            # I have recieved an acknowledgement ... shut
up
myname = socket.getfqdn(socket.gethostname())

s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,socket.SOCK_DGRAM,
socket.IPPROTO_UDP)
s.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_BROADCAST,1)
s.bind(('',20031))

while 1:
    if broadcast_attempts:   # I need to broadcast
        broadcast_attempts = broadcast_attempts - 1
        print 'sending scan'
        s.sendto('scan\n', ('<broadcast>', 20031))
        
    (rfd,wfd,efd) = select.select([s] ,[] ,[] , 5)
    if s in rfd:       # I have a message 
        (string, address) = s.recvfrom(100)
        print 'RECEIVED:-',string, address
        if string == 'scan\n':       # I've been requested by a scan
to identify myself
            print 'replying to scan from ',address
            if ack_flag and reply_attempts:
                print 'sending myname ', myname
                reply_attempts = reply_attempts -1
                s.sendto('IAM '+ myname +'\n',address)
                if not reply_attempts:
                    ack_flag = None
        if string[:4] == 'IAM ':     # I've received an answer
            print 'got a reply from ' ,address
            remotedict[address[0]] = string[4:-1]
    if rfd == [] and wfd == [] and efd ==[]:
        print 'breaking'
        break

print remotedict


Now I just have to work out how to switch between these two chunks of
code when a server stops being a wallflower and want's to get
interested in who it can talk to.

Someone will now tell me what fun this all is :-)



From ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca  Thu Jun 26 14:02:33 2003
From: ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca (Aurélien Géron)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:02:33 +0200
Subject: Python executables?
References: <mailman.1056619905.13226.python-list@python.org> <3EFAFB13.1090506@removeme.free.fr>
Message-ID: <bdfcf2$1uii$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Catalin wrote:
> > How can I make executables with python?
> > I found some utilities that claim they can do something like that like
> > Installer and py2exe but they actualy pack the code in a huge arhive!
> > This solves the problem of giving python programs to users who don't
> > have python but doesn't solve the problem of the source "secrecy"
> > (copyright).
> > And the programs also run much slower and become extremely big compared
> > to a normal C++ program for example. I made a test and a 2 programs
> > doing the same thing where 400 KB with C Builder (static linked) and
> > 2.80 MB with python+installer in an arhive packed with upx and 6.9 MB
> > with py2exe(unpacked). And the speed difference was huge.
> > So can a python program become a "real" executable(I am refering both to
> > windows and unix platforms)?
> > If this is imposible with python is it possible with jpython?

Bruno wrote:
> Here you expose 3 different problems :
>
> 1/ source "secrecy" (copyright) :
> It's the wrong problem. *Any* binary code can be subject to
> reverse-engineering. There are even tools to do this quite easily for
> Java. The right way to protect your property is via copyright and licence.

IMHO, Catalin has a good point here. I'm no legal expert, but I believe that
copyrights and licences are not quite enough to protect your code. They just
mean that if someone uses your code without your authorisation, you *could*
theoretically sue them, but :
1- Would it be worth it to go and hire a lawyer and everything?
2- How would you prove it (or even know about it) if they just stole pieces
of your code? Or even algorithms?
3- Moreover, you may never know who hacked your code.  Look at all the games
and excellent software cracked everyday: do you know who dunnit? Who would
you sue?

So why not simply compile your code and make it *harder* (although not
impossible) to decypher: it'll stop most of the potential hackers.  It's
like the lock on your door: however weak it is, it'll stop most burglars
because they won't bother fighting it at all: they'll just go and look for
an unlocked house! Well... unless everyone knows there's a treasure inside
it, that is.  In which case there's not much you can do against determined
hackers except to make the task difficult for them.

I agree with Bruno about Java decompilers, though : I used them many times
and I am still amazed at the quality of the decompilation process.  In one
instance it even helped me recover my own code when all I had left was the
compiled result!  The recovered code was neatly indented and perhaps clearer
than the original code! But there are also free "obfuscators" that make your
compiled bytecode (a lot) harder to decompile.

Python bytecode has some pretty good decompilers too.

But I don't know about any decent C decompiler.  If anyone does, though, I'd
be greatly interested.


> 2/ Size of "packed" programs :
> Realize that the pack must include the whole Python interpreter and
> librairies. BTW, I personnaly never used such tools, but I think I
> remember that some of them allow you to specify which parts you really
need.

Yes, some do.

> 3/ 'Slowness' :
> I don't believe that 'packing' the program makes it slower.
>
> Are you sure your Python code is really Pythonic ? There are tips and
> tricks in how to 'optimize' Python code, and it can be very different
> from low-level (C/C++ etc) languages techniques. You may want to have a
> look at :
> http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/python/fastpython.html
>
> Now if you really need smallest possible footprint and blazing-fast
> execution speed (which are antagonist needs anyway), and your program is
> about low-level stuff, you may not have choosen the right tool !-)

>
> Bruno
>

I don't see small footprint and fast execution speed as antagonist at all,
quite the contrary.  In fact, assembly code produces the fastest and
smallest programs.

But Bruno is right, IMHO, about choosing the right tool: if you need a 50k
program calculating Pi to the 5000th decimal in 0.1 seconds... python is
definitely *not* the way to go.

Aur?lien





From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Tue Jun  3 13:32:48 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 17:32:48 GMT
Subject: Variable Modifications in a class
References: <mailman.1054658001.11458.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbim40$a9s$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

"Mehta, Anish" <Anish.Mehta at enst-bretagne.fr> wrote in message
news:mailman.1054658001.11458.python-list at python.org...
>    c = b

The problem is with this line. c = b makes c an alias for b, so that when
you change the value of c's attributes, you are changing the values for b's
attributes. So, when you later say

>    c.a = 30
>    c.b = 40

This is *roughly* equivalent to the following:

b.a = c.a = 30
b.b = c.b = 40

You see, earlier, when you created b and c with:
b = ab()
c = ab()

you bind two seperate instances of the class ab (which aliases class AB, in
your example). But, when you later *re-bind* c to b, there are no longer
referrers to two seperate instances, c and b are now bound to the same
instance. To see this, put:

print c is b

after

b = ab()
c = ab()

then put it after

c = b

an notice the results.







From jiwon at softwise.co.kr  Fri Jun 13 01:07:42 2003
From: jiwon at softwise.co.kr (Jiwon Seo)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 22:07:42 -0700
Subject: exceptions within user-defined functions?
References: <mailman.1055470343.2955.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6154072.0306122107.70a7fb26@posting.google.com>

e y suzuki <suzuki-python at pixar.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055470343.2955.python-list at python.org>...
> i'm trying to put together a try/except clause within a function.  the
> clause will specifically except the ValueError and NameError exceptions.
> the clause can be put together fine, but i'm having a bit of trouble 
> making the NameError exception be caught when the clause is included in 
> a user-defined function.
> 
> try/except clause directly at the python interpreter appears fine for 
> both NameError and ValueError:
> >>> try:
> ...   val=int('eep')
> ...   print val
> ... except (NameError,ValueError),msg:
> ...   print msg
> ...
> invalid literal for int(): eep
> >>> try:
> ...   val=int(t)
> ...   print val
> ... except (NameError,ValueError),msg:
> ...   print msg
> ...
> name 't' is not defined
> 
> i now place the try/except clause in a function:
> >>> def str2no(x):
> ...   try:
> ...     val=int(x)
> ...     print val
> ...   except (NameError,ValueError),msg:
> ...     print msg
> ...
> 
> it appears to work fine for the ValueError, but although the traceback
> for string t as input acknowledges that the error is a NameError, the 
> error isn't caught (even though it is excepted in the function above):
> >>> str2no('eep')
>  invalid literal for int(): eep
> >>> str2no(t)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> NameError: name 't' is not defined
> 
> i've also tried defining the str2no function without the ValueError 
> exception to isolate the NameError, to no avail.  similar unsuccessful
> result when excepting the parent error, StandardError, in lieu of both
> ValueError and NameError (ValueError is caught fine).
> 
> what am i doing wrong?  please advise.
> 
> thanks in advance,
> -eys

Yes, you don't seem to understand when python evaluate variables.
Python uses applicative-order evaluation, which means python evaluates
argument first and then applies them. So, your function "str2no" never
sees 't' directly, but will see evaluated value. (because python tries
to evaluate before applying t to your function) But, since 't' is not
defined, it cannot be evaluated. Thus python interpreter gives you
Traceback "before" actaully calling your function.

try:
   str2no(t)
except (NameError),msg:
   print msg

if you do like above in the interpreter, it will print msg.

However, alternative evaluation model would be normal-order
evaluation, in which case, variables will not be evaluated until it is
actually used. If python used normal-order evaluation, you'd have got
what you wanted.



From grante at visi.com  Thu Jun  5 23:01:36 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 03:01:36 GMT
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com> <bbl9ao$mnr$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> <slrnbdvjtq.lp.philh@cabalamat.uklinux.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbe01ur.cai.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <slrnbdvjtq.lp.philh at cabalamat.uklinux.net>, phil hunt wrote:

> A hammer is the best tool by far, we should use it for everything, 
> and throw away all our screwdrivers.

Ah, but the effects of a hammer when combined with a screwdriver far
surpasses the sum of the individual effects.  Just remember never to hammer
a screwdriver into a CRT.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  What PROGRAM are
                                  at               they watching?
                               visi.com            



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun 11 18:03:02 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:03:02 -0500
Subject: Octets calculation?
In-Reply-To: <3EE79F73.E08C2554@alcyone.com>
References: <65eFa.634621$Si4.577158@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
        <bc673d$f0tpn$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
        <3EE79F73.E08C2554@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <16103.42774.489230.271536@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> In the real world, nobody ever uses it to mean anything other than 8
    >> bits.

    Erik> That's simply not true.  Take embedded systems, for examples,
    Erik> where it's not at all uncommon for a byte to be 16 or 32 bits.

It's not uncommon for a machine word to be 16 or 32 bits, but it's rare
these days for a byte to be anything other than 8 bits.

Skip





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Jun  5 17:40:09 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 17:40:09 -0400
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
References: <u65nk5x8p.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com> <mailman.1054749788.8638.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1054830612.3231.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u1xy85hl2.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Moshe Zadka <m at moshez.org> writes:

> As far as I know, Perspective Broker is not slated to ever do UDP.
> Unreliable transports are really bad for remote-object protocols which
> are based on calling methods. I believe it is fairly easy, however,
> to transport Jelly over UDP, if all you need is "unreliable high-level
> messaging".

I guess to me a method invocation for a remote-object protocol is
perfect for a simple datagram request/response scenario (providing the
payload is small enough for a datagram) and is often what we use for
some of our internal stuff.  A simple timeout error that can be
handled by the upper level application can work fine.

There's nothing wrong with using an unreliable transport for
remote-object protocols if it fits the problem domain.  In many cases,
the reliability of the stream protocol can actually get in the way by
imposing unnecessary timeouts and underlying retry mechanisms that the
higher level request structure doesn't need.  Not to mention that
managing state on a common server for a lot of stream connections
(even if the streams themselves are largely idle) can become a scaling
problem.

But I'm also fine if there's no real intention to let the PB work in
such an environment, as that's a perfectly good design choice.

> You're right, but it's not the Twisted tide you're swimming against.
> Most of the time, UDP is the wrong solution, period. When it is,
> for example for media-streaming, it needs to be treated differently.
> There is no sense of writing reliable transports on top of UDP when
> TCP exists.

"Most of the time" is a broad statement - one that I'm probably in
agreement with.  But there are large classes of applications where TCP
just isn't necessarily the best protocol, and those applications can
still benefit from higher level authentication, remote invocation,
etc...

For example, when you have a large mesh of communicating nodes sending
short bursts of traffic to each other (as is typical in network
management or distributed processing applications).  Constantly
setting up and tearing down TCP sessions (with their overhead) is
costly, and maintaining the mesh of connections is expensive in system
and network resources.  Having been a core backbone person when HTTP
first came on the scene, the choice of new TCP session per request was
devastating to traffic patterns and utilization, to which HTTP 1.1
(shared session) was a crucially needed improvement.

Anyway, using UDP datagrams (even with a rudimentary retry mechanism
when necessary - and for announcement only services it may not even be
necessary if a miss is not critical and will be covered by a later
transmission) can have a lot going for it in terms of scaleability and
performance in some situations.  Should it be misused by games trying
to flood backbones by building a retry mechanism without some sort of
exponential fallback?  Definitely not.  But in the right circumstance
a stateless UDP server can be a really good paradigm.  There's a
spectrum between completely unreliable (raw UDP) and the overhead
imposed by TCP (particularly in setup/teardown) for its reliability.
Sometimes TCP is just too "heavy" and a UDP base is more appropriate.

Hmm, this probably slipped into more of a TCP/UDP protocol issue than
Twisted specific one.  I appreciate the feedback on Twisted though.
I'll look into the Jelly over UDP question.

-- David



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Jun 28 14:24:19 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 28 Jun 2003 20:24:19 +0200
Subject: Have I broken my installation?
References: <b8crfvcsd8pit555p24rrc19f05a9578pb@4ax.com> <m3d6gyjizz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <2verfvseu4k82h66g3l2co8mhnc2pe334p@4ax.com> <01hrfv8e7j4c7qi2gtcitlfurd749cg7su@4ax.com> <m3znk2hz21.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <9qmrfv0270kvqa6cr8t4r4i1dve04nhbug@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3r85ehxgs.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Matt Mower <mmower at novissio.com> writes:

> |>>> import xml
> |>>> print xml
> |<module 'xml' from '/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/__init__.pyc'>
> |>>> import xml.dom
> |>>> print xml.dom
> |<module 'xml.dom' from '/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/__init__.pyc'>
> |>>> import xml.dom.minidom
> |>>> print xml.dom.minidom
> |<module 'xml.dom.minidom' from '/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/minidom.pyc'>

And you said you have PyXML installed? This sounds unlikely: minidom
would come from site-packages/_xmlplus if you had.

Regards,
Martin



From babith_cj at yahoo.co.in  Thu Jun 12 13:06:55 2003
From: babith_cj at yahoo.co.in (=?iso-8859-1?q?Babith=20C.J?=)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:06:55 +0100 (BST)
Subject: unsubscribe please
Message-ID: <20030612170655.62314.qmail@web8203.mail.in.yahoo.com>

 
 

________________________________________________________________________
Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, Yahoo! TV.
       visit http://in.tv.yahoo.com




From mickel at csc.fi  Thu Jun 26 05:45:48 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:45:48 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Standard ways to get union, intersection, difference of lists?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0306261104390.23793-100000@sampo.csc.fi>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0306261243180.23793-100000@sampo.csc.fi>

Thanks Gerrit, Eric and Paul, the sets module is exactly what I need!
I'm still running Python 2.2.2 though, so I will need to upgrade.

/Mickel
--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi





From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jun 11 17:21:00 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 23:21:00 +0200
Subject: UTF-16 encoding line breaks?
References: <3ee72262$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <m31xy031mg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3ee7885a_6@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <m31xy09upv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Chris Reedy <creedy at mitretek.org> writes:

>  >>> testfile = codecs.open('testfile.txt', mode='wb', encoding='utf16')
>  >>> testfile.write('abc\r\ndef\r\n')

That's an error: you should write Unicode objects to a file opened
by codecs.open. So use

testfile.write(u'abc\r\ndef\r\n')

instead.

> UnicodeError: UTF-16 decoding error: truncated data

Yes, .readline does not work on a UTF-16 stream. In Python 2.3,
you get

NotImplementedError: .readline() is not implemented for UTF-16

Contributions are welcome.

Regards,
Martin



From tweedgeezer at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 10 17:02:33 2003
From: tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 14:02:33 -0700
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <6qwufu12ee.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <698f09f8.0306101302.688b7e52@posting.google.com>

Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> wrote in message news:<6qwufu12ee.fsf at salmakis.intevation.de>...
> *compiled*?
> 
> Surely you mean "when the def-statement is executed."

...

> >     In either case, the modified function is bound to the function
> >     name at compile time.
>
> Again, I think you mean "when the def-statement is executed."

No, he probably means "compile time."  Python is compiled to bytecode
separate from being execute, the the def statement is executed at
compile time.

Jeremy



From paul at boddie.net  Fri Jun  6 10:36:56 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 07:36:56 -0700
Subject: Updating SQL table problems with python
References: <3eddac41$0$31519$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au> <bbn8ik$bdu9q$1@fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0306060636.5c9a2eb2@posting.google.com>

kuntzagk at sulawesi.bioinf.mdc-berlin.de wrote in message news:<bbn8ik$bdu9q$1 at fu-berlin.de>...
> 

[Some SQL with '%s' in the middle of it, used in conjunction with
string substitution.]

> Did you get a python syntax error or a SQL syntax error?
> If the latter, check if your title contains a quote charakter. 
> Got bitten by this myself.

Please:

  * Do as Andy Todd suggested and use statement parameters.
  * Do not mess around with quoting your values and dropping them
    directly into SQL statements.

Otherwise:

  * Your application may fail when it gets characters you didn't
    think about and which your database system's SQL parser reacts
    badly to.
  * You may be exposing security-related defects because of quoting
    issues you hadn't considered.

I recommend taking a couple of minutes looking at the DB-API and
reading about "paramstyle" and cursor objects. This will save you a
lot of time and needlessly wasted effort later on.

  http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0249.html

Paul



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Fri Jun 20 19:09:11 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:09:11 -0400
Subject: Runtime Warning 1010 vs 1011
Message-ID: <vf74vcc83cqu18@news.supernews.com>

I just recompiled an extension module, and got a warning message
telling me that python was at 1011, and the extension was at
1010. I'm at level 2.2.2, but the include library only has
one include with the latest date: the one with the 2.2.2
#defines.

What have I done wrong, and do I need to fix it?

PS - I know it recompiled, because the 2.1 version
of the extension throws an exception. I'm on Windows 98SE.

John Roth





From maney at pobox.com  Sun Jun  1 21:53:29 2003
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 01:53:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Replace for Goto
References: <aa2e3602.0305281646.32cf1129@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054170253.14040.python-list@python.org> <3ed5f1ce$0$26721$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be> <bb52ei$7tg$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bbeamp$6db$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>        try:
>            for ORlist in includes:
>                try:
>                    for filter in ORlist:
>                        for field in curr_fields:
>                            for item in record[field]:
>                                if item.lower().find(filter) >= 0:
>                                    raise Found
>                    else:
>                        raise NotFound
>                except Found:
>                    continue
>        except NotFound:
>            continue
>        else:
>            result.append(record)

Speaking as one who has indented deeply when it felt appropriate, and
actually used a triply-indirect pointer (not nested structures, just a
few points where the code reached all the way to ***whatsit... and it
did work and seemed perfectly reasonable at the time it was written)...

That's scary.  Or was it intended as the single example for a long
afternoon demonstrating the effects of refactoring on code readability?

:-)

-- 
Here's my message to the record industry and its allies:
I'm not a thief.  I'm a customer.  When you treat me like a
thief, I won't be your customer.  -- Dan Gillmor



From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jun 29 18:51:35 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 00:51:35 +0200
Subject: import/from import question
In-Reply-To: <slrnbfuo4v.fs2.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>
References: <slrnbfuo4v.fs2.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>
Message-ID: <bdnqfj$uugh0$2@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de>

Artur M. Piwko wrote:
> Is there a way to detect if module was imported by 'from <mod> import <sth>'
> or by 'import <mod>'?

Provided that the information about imported modules is 'sys.modules', 
that's not possible.

-- Gerhard




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jun  7 21:00:44 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 21:00:44 -0400
Subject: program path
References: <fyvEa.17336$pK2.23786@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <3EE28ABC.7D6DB511@engcorp.com>

kpop wrote:
> 
> how do i get the path of the python script thats running  from within
> python.

Do you mean the path of any Python module that is imported, or just
the main script.  For the latter, use sys.argv[0].

-Peter



From roy at panix.com  Wed Jun 11 13:09:11 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 13:09:11 -0400
Subject: PEP-317
References: <1055255402.3ee5eb6ae09ee@mcherm.com> <1055312155.157424@yasure> <roy-B36181.09340211062003@reader1.panix.com> <2259b0e2.0306110902.7d7f456d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bc7nnn$cb5$1@panix2.panix.com>

Michele Simionato <mis6 at pitt.edu> wrote:
> In addition to that, there could be an automatic code converter, making
> old programs compatible with Python 3000. Any comments about that ?

Given the dynamic nature of Python, I suspect that would be extremely
difficult to implement.



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jun  3 15:40:28 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:40:28 -0500
Subject: Proposed extension to file constructor
In-Reply-To: <20030603182813.GB1366@taral.net>
References: <20030603182813.GB1366@taral.net>
Message-ID: <16092.63916.83822.950537@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    taral> I needed to extend popen functionality, so I modified the file
    taral> constructor to optionally take a file descriptor. It was, in my
    taral> opinion, the minimum way to do it while preserving isinstance(x,
    taral> file).

Where are you getting file descriptors?  What's wrong with using os.fdopen
to wrap a file descriptor in a file object?

    fdopen(...)
        fdopen(fd [, mode='r' [, bufsize]]) -> file_object

        Return an open file object connected to a file descriptor.

Skip




From manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it  Sat Jun 14 03:10:14 2003
From: manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it (Manuel)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 07:10:14 GMT
Subject: getFoo1() vs. class.foo1
References: <z7tGa.87450$pR3.1850658@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <qTzGa.88011$pR3.1865271@news1.tin.it>

Thanks!
I love python: without set and get boring instructions,
the class is more simple and readable.  :-)

Ciao,

              Manuel







From com-nospam at ccraig.org  Tue Jun  3 10:14:57 2003
From: com-nospam at ccraig.org (Christopher A. Craig)
Date: 03 Jun 2003 10:14:57 -0400
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <3EDC51DE.6040502@nospam.com>
Message-ID: <t1w3cir8cym.fsf@kermit.wreck.org>

Kendear <kendear at nospam.com> writes:

> if Python supports   1 < a < 10
> then maybe it is also just syntactic sugar.
> Other language might take it as  (1 < a) < 10
> which is just the boolean 0 or 1 less than 10
> which is always true.
> 
>  >>> a = -1
>  >>> 1 < a < 10
> 0
>  >>> (1 < a) < 10
> 1
> 
> so in Python, we can't just add parenthesis
> to multiple =  and can't add parenthesis
> arbitrarily to multiple  <, >, ==, etc.

Sure you can.  It just totally changes the meaning.  

1 < a < 10 is the same as 1<a and a<10
(1<a) < 10 is not

-- 
Christopher A. Craig <com-nospam at ccraig.org>
"The mistakes made by Congress wouldn't be so bad if the next Congress
didn't keep trying to correct them." Cullen Hightower





From achrist at easystreet.com  Fri Jun 13 05:05:15 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 02:05:15 -0700
Subject: Saving Files Under Windows
Message-ID: <3EE993CB.F2CE7D39@easystreet.com>

I'm using python (with wxPython, PySQLite, etc) under Windows,
and I think that by staying with old versions of Windows (NT, 98), 
I may not be doing what new versions like.  Are there new rules  
under Windows 2000 or XP that restrict in which folders users can or 
should be saving their data?  Do the python libs or the python 
win32api give me any function that I can call to find out where I 
should be creating output files for users?  I guess I can  check 
for C:\Documents and Settings\<username>" and create data files
there if I find it, but is there any more reasonable way to know
where data should go?  Is there any way to find an output folder 
where all users should have read and write privileges so that
shared data can go there?  Of course, I'd like to run on Win95, 98,
NT, 2k, XP, and be aa good citizen on all.  

Any pythonically canonical or vice versa solutions to this one?

Al



From ulope at gmx.de  Sun Jun  1 12:15:07 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 18:15:07 +0200
Subject: Zope with Apache on shared hosting account
References: <62e69c0c.0305310449.762b9e00@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbd8qc$80kii$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>

"HW" <google at thegoldensun.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:62e69c0c.0305310449.762b9e00 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to install zope on my account on a shared web server (ie
> no root access).  Is this possible?  I find lots of how-to's for
> Zope/Apache, PCGI, RewriteRules, etc, but everyone seems to assume you
> have root privleges, can recompile Apache, etc.
>

Hi,

if you have access to "your" part in httpd.conf it may work using ProxyPass
for example.

Ciao Ulrich





From ffiorese at franco.homelinux.org  Mon Jun  9 17:11:26 2003
From: ffiorese at franco.homelinux.org (Franco Fiorese)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 21:11:26 GMT
Subject: Where is bobo?
In-Reply-To: <hP5Fa.109203$g92.2532246@news2.tin.it>
References: <hP5Fa.109203$g92.2532246@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <2K6Fa.109703$g92.2546078@news2.tin.it>

Franco Fiorese wrote:

> Hi all,
> do you know where is possible to find the latest original package of 
> bobo (Python ORB)?
> The link (http://www.digicool.com/releases/bobo/) referenced by several 
> pages on the web is broken...
> 
> Thanks
> Franco Fiorese
> 
Thank you for your suggestions.

I am trying Pyro (I don't need a complete app. server like Zope), it 
seems very nice and interesting (although I have some problems running 
the basic example in a terminal, no X window, console... well I need to 
read all the docs ;-) )

FF




From snag at jool.po  Wed Jun 18 19:20:15 2003
From: snag at jool.po (kpop)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:20:15 +0100
Subject: Windows Program?
References: <vf1roa984ou832@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <qr6Ia.19011$pK2.27081@news.indigo.ie>

yes you can there are differant toolkits for doing it.
one already comes with python called tkinter if you read the python
documentation theres a sample of one in the
libary reference. in fact the IDLE program that comes with python is written
in it. I never wrote a gui program myself but alot of people on here seem to
like wxpython and pyqt, which are addons you can download.







"David B." <david24 at iland.net> wrote in message
news:vf1roa984ou832 at corp.supernews.com...
> Hello. I'm new to python and I was wondering... can you make windows-like
> programs? (Like with the gray background and the input boxes?)
>
> David
>
>





From gh at ghaering.de  Sat Jun 21 12:15:47 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 18:15:47 +0200
Subject: dynamic creating of class
In-Reply-To: <bd1t5o$41p$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
References: <ulj8fvcs6483dh7khpl6jm6fsu26snnjv1@4ax.com>
	<bd1t5o$41p$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3EF484B3.1090906@ghaering.de>

Salvatore wrote:
> Jaros?aw Zabie??o wrote:
> 
>> Is there a possibility for Python to dynamic binding of class?  I can
>> do it in PHP but I do not know how to make the same in Python. Look at 
>> the following example:
> 
> 
> I had the same problem and I don't remember who gave me the solution.
> The idea is to use 'eval'
> 
> class A:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.class_name = 'A'
> 
> class B:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.class_name = 'B'
> 
> 
> choosed_class = 'A'
> choosed_class += '()'
> instance_of_choosed_class = eval(choosed_class)
> 
> Thanks to the one who gave me the solution :-)

While this works, hee's a better solution:

chosen_class = A
instance_of_chosen_class = chosen_class()

Classes are just yet another type of object :)

-- Gerhard




From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Jun  4 11:45:17 2003
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:45:17 GMT
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054662726.12651.python-list@python.org> <38ec68a6.0306031913.3600bc16@posting.google.com> <3EDD6610.3CABE86A@engcorp.com> <slrnbds4o5.q8q.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <slrnbds50u.q8q.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>

Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> wrote:
>=== Begin Python transcript ===
>>>> a = b = []
>>>> a
> []
>>>> b
> []
>>>> id(a)
> 135714444
>>>> id(b)
> 135714444
>>>> a is b
> 1
>>>> a = []
>>>> b = []
>>>> id(a)
> 135714732
>>>> id(b)
> 135714508
>>>> a is b
> 0
>==== End Python transcript ====

This got me curious. I know that in the "1<i<10" syntax, the expression
in the middle (i) is only evaluated once, which can be important for
(say) functions with side-effects. But in assignment, how many times is
the RHS evaluated?

=== Begin Python transcript ===
>>> def foo():
...     print "Side effect!"
...     return 5
...
>>> a = b = foo()
Side effect!
>>> a
5
>>> b
5
==== End Python transcript ====

It seems the RHS is only evaluated once in chained assignment, at least
as of Python 2.2.2.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838



From MK at foo.com  Fri Jun 27 04:35:57 2003
From: MK at foo.com (MK)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:35:57 +0200
Subject: Exposing object model in Python?
References: <bdffi1$skho2$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bdgvk5$sid7t$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>

"MK" <MK at foo.com> wrote

[...]

Thanks for your input. Apologies for not being clear enough.

I'm writing a classical desktop application, using wxPython
and some other libraries. I'm interested to expose its
object model a la Microsoft's VBA. That is, I want to allow
my users to tinker with the app, i.e. write their own macros
in Python in a miniature IDE, within the app. I'd also like to ship
the program as a standalone app, using py2exe.







From kendear at nospam.com  Fri Jun 20 00:50:57 2003
From: kendear at nospam.com (Kendear)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:50:57 GMT
Subject: thinkings on shallow copy
References: <3EF1849E.6060103@nospam.com> <mailman.1056036561.14899.python-list@python.org> <3EF225AA.1000909@nospam.com> <87k7bhh6yj.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3EF292B0.2080807@nospam.com>

John J. Lee wrote:
> Kendear <kendear at nospam.com> writes:
> [...]
> 
>>>>I wonder if it is actually to insert *the same object references*
>>>>into the new compound object...
>>>
>>>Sort of.  Better: "inserts references to the same objects".
>>>(Saying that the references are the same suggests, erroneously,
>>>that changing one reference would change the other:
>>
>>hm, why would it suggest that?  if two pointers are the
>>same, why would changing one pointer change the other?
> 
> 
> If two references are *the same* (ie. occupy the same location in
> memory), then of course changing one will change the other.  If they
> merely have the same value, then you'd be right.  Steven and me both
> interpret your use of the phrase 'the same object references' to mean
> the former.

hm, insert *the same object references* means, if the source
list's first item is 0x0123CDEF which is used as a pointer to memory
location 0x0123CDEF, then insert (set) the same value, 0x0123CDEF to
the target list's first item...  (say, 0x0123CDEF to 0x123FFFF
contains another list structure in memory).

so, insert *the same object references* and
"inserts references to the same objects" is the same thing
isn't it?  both set the list's first item to  0x0123CDEF

unless, you treat "reference" not as the number "0x0123CDEF"
but mean different thing or a higher level thing?  is reference
an object too in python?




From webmaster at stratastuff.com  Mon Jun 16 03:43:02 2003
From: webmaster at stratastuff.com (Chris White)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 07:43:02 GMT
Subject: DNS/MX Lookup?
Message-ID: <ayeHa.12016$sm5.12268@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

Well, I tried the python-dns module that exists out there, but it's not working so for.

It would be nice if there was a socket function to pull up info about mx servers for

a domain name.  If anyone knows a working with (yes, here it comes) windoze operating system

that simply uses the default nameserver or lets me set it for that matter (the later would be more

prefered, as it would make it more cross platform compatible IMHO). 

Also, if anyone knows some good easy to understand (snicker) RFC's for DNS Querying (or some

page that breaks it down) that would be great as well.

Thanks to all

Sincerely,
Chris White



From warlock at eskimo.com  Sun Jun  8 15:33:04 2003
From: warlock at eskimo.com (Jim Richardson)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:33:04 -0700
Subject: ANN: Self-guided instruction docs for Python
References: <bbqjp0$cfiqk$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de> <2259b0e2.0306070505.79f61d78@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <gkfcr-a2n.ln1@grendel.myth>

On 7 Jun 2003 06:05:22 -0700,
 Michele Simionato <mis6 at pitt.edu> wrote:
> Dave Kuhlman <dkuhlman at rexx.com> wrote in message news:<bbqjp0$cfiqk$1 at ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>...
>> I've been at work developing several classes for Python.
>> 
>> The first (Python 101) is an introductory course in Python
>> programming.  The second (Python 201, you probably guessed)
>> discusses several slightly advanced topics which have Python
>> solutions.
>> 
>> As preparation for these training courses I've written several
>> training documents.  When I started, they were intended as an
>> outline or syllabus for the course.  As time went on, they grew as
>> I filled in more notes and details.
>> 
>> Now, I believe, these training documents are usable stand-alone.
>> In part I'm announcing this in the hope that these documents can
>> be used for self-guided learning.
>> 
>> You can find these documents at:
>> 
>>     http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/#training
>> 
>> It's still a "work in progress", but I believe there is plenty
>> there now to make it useful.
>> 
>> If you have a need for Python training, please contact me.
>> 
>> If you have suggestions for these documents, please let me know.
>> 
>>   - Dave
> 
> It seems like you did a lot of work! 
> You should ask Guido to put a link to your documents in the official 
> home-page, that would largely increase their visibility to Python newcomers.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>                                                      Michele


Yeah! these pages are great. I have been playing with python for a
couple of years, off and on, and there are still things I don't "get"
mostly 'cause I am a hardware sort of guy :) But that site is really
helpful. 

(self, what the heck is it for! thanks to all the folks who have tried
to explain it to me, but I think I am just thick wrt to this. ) 

-- 
Jim Richardson         http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock

Linux, because eventually, you grow up enough to be trusted with a fork()



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Jun  5 16:13:32 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:13:32 -0400
Subject: Twisted Panglossia
References: <u65nk5x8p.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
 <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
 <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
 <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com>
 <mailman.1054749788.8638.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.1054830612.3231.python-list@python.org> <w/43+kKkXUlb092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnbdv8vl.ktj.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <sR63+kKkXs/O092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

|A search for "Pollyannaishness" on Google returns 3 results. Merriam Webster
|offers no definition. Care to elucidate this obfuscation? =)

  Pollyanna
  1. A person regarded as being foolishly or blindly optimistic.[ After
     the heroine of the novel Pollyanna , by Eleanor Hodgman Porter
     (1868-1920), American writer]
  --------------------
  The American Heritage (r) Concise Dictionary of the English Language,
  Third Edition.

I tend towards polysyllabic--sometimes even polyglottal--neologistic
agglutinations.  I don't think Sophocles warned me about that though.

|I vaguely remember Larry Wall mentioning something about hubris being
|a virtue...  <ducking>

Yeah...  I repeat Wall's tripartite virtues in the preface to my book
(btw.  I got a sample copy, and Amazon shows it as finally saleable).
But there's a fine line between virtues and vices.

Yours, David...

--
 mertz@  _/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: \_\_\_\_    n o
gnosis  _/_/             Postmodern Enterprises            \_\_
.cx    _/_/                                                 \_\_  d o
      _/_/_/ IN A WORLD W/O WALLS, THERE WOULD BE NO GATES \_\_\_ z e





From xpm4senn001 at sneakemail.com  Sun Jun 22 21:26:29 2003
From: xpm4senn001 at sneakemail.com (John Fitzsimons)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:26:29 +1000
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com> <bct498$mnjrt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <8da5fvsnidpjtblgfj4484spso2t9e6r95@4ax.com> <bcuqp3$nl9um$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <rt97fv80g2dguti1okoevk3kmvo6oh14vt@4ax.com> <bd17hu$niu1d$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <u7lcfv85lvutqg8tspgua4qc0454gsd2ie@4ax.com>

On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:13:48 -0700, "Cousin Stanley"
<CousinStanley at hotmail.com> wrote:

< snip >

>So, I re-wrote the program
>using a dictionary based mechanism
>and all dups now seem to be gone
>from the output file ...

>Usage is ...

>    python word_list.py file_in.txt file_out.txt

>Download ...
>http://fastq.com/~sckitching/Python/word_list.zip

< snip >

When I tried that on my unsorted original file all I got was :

C:\Python>python word_list.py file_in.txt file_out.txt

    word_list.py

        Indexing Words ....

Then nothing. I waited a long time but still nothing. 

I then used the first word_list file to sort the original into order.
That worked perfectly, as before, to give a sorted result.

I then inputted this with the latest word_list.py file and got my
word_target.txt .

Unfortunately I still had duplicate strings eg :

Any
any
Any
any
Any
any
Any
any
ANY
any
ANY
any
Any
ANY
any        :-(

I have uploaded my original file to :

http://members.optushome.com.au/jfweb/jfin.txt

As you can see it is text from the other newsgroup. My "original" plan
was to :

(A) Sort all strings into different lines.

(B) Sort the result into "unique" lines.

(C) "Grep" (B) for all lines starting http or ftp or www.

Perhaps my thinking was wrong ? Perhaps (A), (C), (B) would make
things much easier ? Then the unique line sort would have a great 
deal less to process and thereby be much easier/faster ?

The problem is that I don't have the (C) python program/script yet
unless someone here wants to help me with that too. 

Anyone able to do that please ?

I feel that you have already spent sufficient time trying to help with
(A) and (B) so don't expect that you would have time for (C).

Is the above input file and/or comments a help ? Any constructive
feedback from anyone will be appreciated.

Regards, John.




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 21 10:54:50 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:54:50 +0100
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com>

Alan Kennedy wrote:

>>Of course the point remains that XML is hugely resource inefficient for
>>many problems. But maybe in 5 years we'll have so many terahertz and
>>gigabytes and megabits-per-sec that we won't care.

Roman Suzi wrote:

> Well, when XML was entering the arena, it promised to _lessen_
> the burden on telecommunications... Where is that claim now?

I've been "following" XML since seeing Jon Bosak lecture on the subject in May
1997. I've been subscribed, periodically, to xml-dev and xsl-list, and I don't
think I've ever heard, read or seen anyone seriously claim that XML would lessen
the bandwidth used for communicating information. Is that what you meant? 

And the same argument could be made about HTML: it is just as resource
inefficient as XML, perhaps more so. So why is HTML the most widely used
document format in human history?

If any claims have been made about communications, then I think they would be
more likely to be made in relation to how much easier it would be to *process*
XML, compared something like EDI, for example.

> And one more point: processing of XML is much less
> reliable than that of ASCII or even simple Python literals.

I have to disagree with that statement. I don't think that a character encoding
can be compared to XML: for example, XML can be stored in ascii. "Processing"
ascii is easy, but extracting semantics from an ascii byte stream is harder than
extracting semantics from XML, i.e. deciding on your tokens, lexing them,
writing a grammar, translating that grammar to running code that builds data
structures, etc, etc. Processing simple strings like "2+(2*2)" is easy: what
about "I would like a deep pan 12-inch pizza with bacon and banana, two portions
of garlic bread and 2 litres of sparkling mineral water delivered to my house
please".

And can you point me to code/programs/utilities to parse python literals in
Java, VB, lisp, smalltalk, javascript, ocaml, etc, etc? Character encoded python
literals don't travel as well as XML, as of today anyway.

And processing XML is completely reliable, as long as your XML tools library is
compliant with standards. Non-compliant tools don't last long, because people
stop using them.

Now, it is definitely the case that there is a lot of "XML" out there that isn't
really XML at all: it's XML structures with broken HTML embedded inside. For
example, have you tried to process any RSS feeds lately (it's excruciatingly
painful)? But that's more of a social issue (people not being strict with their
RSS parsing) than a technical issue. If they stuck by the strict rules of XML,
their processing would be very easy, but they would lose 50% or more of the
information sources that are syntactically broken. 

As an aside, I wouldn't bother processing not well-formed RSS. If the publisher
can't be bothered to check for compliance of their published documents with a
simple standard like XML, then they probably haven't put much effort into
assuring the quality of their information either. But that's a social decision
for me, not a technical one:

try:
    parse(RSS)
except XMLIsNotWellFormedError:
    if not wantToSpend3MonthsWritingAParserForTheMorassThatIsRSS():
        bin(RSS)
        markOriginatingFeedAsRubbish()

> The reliablity is what worries me more. It's too easy to get into some
> trap (I remember talks here or in XML-SIG when it was discussed
> what is better None or "" for representing namespace).

But the latter is a minor, python-specific, concern, and one that was
satisfactorily resolved relatively quickly, by the excellent PyXML people
(thanks Martin von L et al :-). Once that empty namespace gets serialised into
an XML byte stream, and then further processed in another language, the semantic
travels seamlessly to other languages. XML travels generally much more reliably,
across the wide range of available platforms, than any other non-trivial
data/document representation.

> So far all arguments pro-XML in this thread are like "XML is good
> because X, M and L are already here" (be it SGML, javascript, Java,
> developers expertise or whatever). But I wonder if there are pure
> technical merits of XML itself apart
> from it being involved. 

Well, I suppose where you and I differ is that I believe that something being
easy for ordinary people to understand and work with *is* a technical merit.

I think that if we are to progress further, you would have to define what you
mean by "technical merit".

> XML is not well-based scientifically (like RDBMS)

Can you give an example of something comparable to XML that is "well-based
scientifically"? I don't understand what you mean.

> XML for ? is like CSV for a RDBMS
> 
> However, I have no idea what the question stands for...

RDBMS is a very broad term. Try comparing something like SQLLite or MS Access on
a LAN with a group of large multi-processor, multi-machine, data-replicating,
distributed (across time zones) transaction processing Sybase servers, for
example.

XML database technology has a long way to go before it challenges RDBMS as a
reliable, fast and powerful storage mechanism for information. But there are
products, projects and languages out there. Compared to your statement above,
perhaps statements like these could be made

 o XML is to a DOM as CSV is to an array
 o XML is to Apache Xindice as CSV is to a MySQL server.
 o XML is to an XML-based content server as CSV is to an RDBMS + a raft of
content->relational table mappings.
 o Xpath/XQuery/XPointer is to an XML repository as SQL is to an RDBMS

For me, the most important aspect of XML is as a social phenomenon, not a
technical one.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun  2 09:51:34 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:51:34 -0400
Subject: CGI question: safe passwords possible?
References: <cb035744.0305301401.3fdc8a96@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054338287.30346.python-list@python.org> <7xwug82ag0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3EDB4CC2.B34F910C@engcorp.com> <7xhe784n6u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3EDB5666.A97908C2@engcorp.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> > Also note: you won't be able to have your users change their passwords
> > securely with any such approach.  For that, I believe SSL is going to
> > be the only secure option, to avoid ever sending a password to the server
> > in the clear.  (Or generate passwords on the server side and email to the
> > user, though that has obvious other problems...)
> 
> You could use the old password as a key to encrypt the new password.
> Of course that's not too clever if the reason for changing the password
> is that the old one is compromised...

Ah, a nice solution, I would say.  If the password is actually compromised,
requiring the user to contact the adminstrator to "reset" their password,
or asking the server to generate a new password which is sent via email,
would be reasonably acceptable approaches.

-Peter



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jun 22 12:14:26 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:14:26 -0400
Subject: xrange
References: <rwkJa.1019010$OV.1115623@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <3EF5D5E2.DF5D9FCB@engcorp.com>

Bryan wrote:
> 
> in 2.3, what is the best way to write this:
>   for i in xrange(100): print 'Hello'
> 
> i used timeit and it seems that repeat is about 10% faster.

Is such a small performance difference more important to you than
backwards compatibility?

I would choose "for i in xrange()" still, merely because of the
number of people still using Python 2.2 and before, but I'm not
one who cares much about trivial optimizations...

(I realize you might be using 2.3-only features, but I don't think
that automatically means you should abandon readability, by dumping
a well-known idiom with a merely possibly-to-become-idiomatic form.)

-Peter



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun 18 18:04:39 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:04:39 +0200
Subject: feature request: mul
In-Reply-To: <tyfk7bkrbbt.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
References: <2259b0e2.0306110833.24b998cd@posting.google.com> <tyfk7bkrbbt.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>
Message-ID: <20030618220439.GA5958@nl.linux.org>

Jacek Generowicz wrote:
> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:
> > import operator
> > multi_and=lambda it: reduce(operator.mul,it)
> > if multi_and(condition):
> >    dosomething()
> > 
> > but frankly it is too ugly for my taste. Having
> > 'sum' and 'mul' the use cases for 'reduce' would
> > drop, which I think is a good thing.
> You don't like abstraction ?

One could also use:
sum(map(bool, it)) or sum(map(abs, it)).

I have two use cases in my program. One is with a (200-elem) list of
booleans (pygame.keys.get_pressed()). One is with coordinates for a
direction, [-1 - 1, -1 - 1]. Because of this thread, I encountered
this bug and fixed it :)

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
137. If a man wish to separate from a woman who has borne him children,
or from his wife who has borne him children: then he shall give that wife
her dowry, and a part of the usufruct of field, garden, and property, so
that she can rear her children. When she has brought up her children, a
portion of all that is given to the children, equal as that of one son,
shall be given to her. She may then marry the man of her heart.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Jun 30 08:49:48 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:49:48 +0200
Subject: Placing entry widgets on a canvas in Tkinter
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0306301524020.5597-100000@sampo.csc.fi>
Message-ID: <bdpbkk$5to$1@main.gmane.org>

Mickel Gr?nroos wrote:

> I'm trying to put an Tkinter.Entry of fixed size onto a specific location
> on a canvas using the place manager. The idea is that one can double-click
> a rectangle object on a canvas to get an entry field of the same size
> as the rectangle placed exactly over the rectangle thus creating
> the effect that the rectangle has entered "input mode". When clicking
> return in the entry field, the value is fed back to a text object within
> the rectangle object on the canvas.

> Well, this works fine and well until the canvas is scrolled of one reason
> or another. When that happens, the entry naturally does not follow the
> canvas. Is there a way to lock a widget which is "placed" onto a canvas
> to the canvas so that it follows the canvas as it scrolls or is rescaled?

try this:

    canvas.create_window(x, y, window=widget, anchor=NW)

(also make sure to always use canvas.canvasx(screenx) and
canvas.canvasy(screeny) to convert between screen coordinates
and canvas coordinates in your event handlers)

an alternative solution is to implement text editing for text items;
see

    http://effbot.org/guides/editing-canvas-text-items.htm

for a discussion, and some code.

</F>







From dave at nullcube.com  Thu Jun  5 22:26:55 2003
From: dave at nullcube.com (Dave Harrison)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:26:55 +1000
Subject: Singleton class: what is the purpose?
In-Reply-To: <WqSDa.1962$o%.2111148@news3.news.adelphia.net>
References: <20030605111536.GA3436@nl.linux.org> <mailman.1054814890.6876.python-list@python.org> <WqSDa.1962$o%.2111148@news3.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <20030606022655.GA1683@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>

All design patterns have a tendency to link together, they jigsaw together
pretty well.  What works with what really depends on context and the problem
being solved though.

The borg is alot of labels (to use Aldo's term) which are all attached
to the same __dict__

Flyweight is in a borg in some senses, and has two important elements.
Intrinsic state and extrinsic state.

Intrinsic state is the state within the object, where that state is common
irrespective of which class is handling that particular object.  This
is the similarity with the borg pattern.

Extrinsic state is the state in which the object exists in the object that 
is handling it.

Clarification time.  This means that the object itself, retains a common state.  Whether that is because you have a borg, or you have a singleton, is - to some extent - irrelevant.  The point is the object keeps its own state.  However that does not impact on where that object fits _into_ other object.

The below link gives the example of a circle object which works nicely as 
a simple explanation.  The circle itself has a radius which is independant
of who is handling it.  The values _intrinsic_ to the circle are independant of _where_ the object is.  If that circle is in the top left corner
of one window object, and the bottom right of another, that does not affect
the circles _intrinsic_ state.  Those positions are its _extrinsic_ state
within each of those objects.

http://selab.korea.ac.kr/selab/courses/GoF-patterns/flyweight.htm

Hope that helps.
Dave

Gordon Scott (gscott2112 at adelphia.net):
> Is there any difference between the Borg and the Flyweight?  Sound like the
> same thing.
> 
> Gordo
> 
> "Aldo Cortesi" <aldo at nullcube.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1054814890.6876.python-list at python.org...
> > Thus spake Gerrit Holl (gerrit at nl.linux.org):
> >
> > > What is a singleton class? What is the purpose of a
> > > singleton class?
> > >
> > > On the web, I have found that a singleton class allows
> > > only one instance.  Is that correct?
> >
> > Yep, that's right - the Singleton pattern is used to make
> > sure that only one instance of a given class exists.
> >
> >
> > > If so, it should be easily implementable with:
> > >
> > >  20 >>> class Singleton(object):
> > >  20 ...  instances = []
> > >  20 ...  def __init__(self):
> > >  20 ...   if len(self.__class__.instances) == 0:
> > >  20 ...    self.__class__.instances.append(self)
> > >  20 ...   else:
> > >  20 ...    raise Exception("No way jose!")
> >
> > Almost, but this is really only half an implementation of
> > the Singleton pattern. A real implementation has to do two
> > things:
> >     - Ensure that only one instance exists
> >     - Make that instance available in some global way
> >
> > See here for some discussion of various implementation
> > strategies:
> >
> > http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Cookbook/Recipe/52558
> >
> >
> > > But what is the purpose of a Singleton class?
> >
> > There are lots of circumstances in which the Singleton
> > pattern comes in handy. For instance, you may have a program
> > that should have only one connection to a database, or a
> > system where only one print spooler should exist. Or,
> > perhaps you want to share a single instance of a commonly
> > used, but expensive to create, object between the various
> > parts of your application. For a more in-depth discussion of
> > the use (and abuse) of the Singleton Pattern see the
> > excellent c2 wiki:
> >
> > http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?SingletonPattern
> >
> >
> > You should also note that the Singleton pattern has recently
> > fallen out of vogue with the Python in-crowd. If you're hip,
> > and in-the-know, you're supposed to advocate the Borg
> > pattern. The name is a pune or play on words - whereas the
> > Singleton pattern means that There Can Only Be One (i.e.
> > only one instance can exist), the Borg pattern means that
> > You Will Be Assimilated (i.e. many instances can exist, but
> > all have the same state). The skeleton for a Borg-ised class
> > looks like this:
> >
> > class Borg:
> >     __shared_state = {}
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self.__dict__ = self.__shared_state
> >
> > As you can see, a single __dict__ is shared between all
> > instances. In practice, this achieves much the same purpose
> > as the Singleton pattern - object identity may differ from
> > instance to instance, but since state is shared, all
> > instances act exactly the same.
> >
> >
> > Finally, many people forget that Python has something very
> > much like the Singleton concept built in - modules. Python
> > ensures that code in module scope is only executed once
> > (unless you force a reload), no matter how many times a
> > module is imported....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> >
> > Aldo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Aldo Cortesi
> > aldo at nullcube.com
> > http://www.nullcube.com
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun 16 23:06:55 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:06:55 -0600
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <114xq48ewelrf.1xyyacwlxdk1p.dlg@40tude.net>; from imbaczek@poczta.onet.pl on Sun, Jun 15, 2003 at 11:45:55PM +0200
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <114xq48ewelrf.1xyyacwlxdk1p.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <20030616210655.B3458@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Marek "Baczek" Baczy?ski:
  [...]
> Your argument is good in theory, but IME such things are extremly rare to 
> happen in real life. Searching for a lost colon also takes a lot of time 
> *and* tends to happen more often.

Searching for a lost colon does take a lot of time, and a lot of
people don't appreciate that.  A friend of a friend of mine lost
his colon a couple years ago -- usual story, went out for a night
on the town, woke up in a bathtub full of ice, colon missing --
and he's *still* looking for it.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                          staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Its force is immeasurable.  Even Computer cannot determine it."
                           -- _Space: 1999_ episode "Black Sun"




From jtauber at jtauber.com  Thu Jun 19 03:36:05 2003
From: jtauber at jtauber.com (James Tauber)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:36:05 +0800
Subject: Feature Structures in Python (Part II)
Message-ID: <20030619073605.0D2BD35EF0@www.fastmail.fm>

This is part II. Note that it hasn't be changed to use clear() instead of
having the del_features() function yet.

Again, suggestions for improvement appreciated.

James

###
### FEATURE STRUCTURES IN PYTHON (Part II)
###
### James Tauber - http://jtauber.com/
### Updated: 2003-06-19
#
# This is the second part of a guide to implementing feature structures
# in Python.
#
# In the previous part, we saw how to use dictionaries for feature
# structures and how to implement reentrancy. In this part we'll look
# at subsumption.
#
# Previously, we defined the following:

class feature(str):
    pass

def del_features(feature_structure):
    for f in feature_structure.keys():
        del feature_structure[f]

##
## SUBSUMPTION
#
# We will define subsumption recursively, to cover nested feature
# structures. In particular, F1 will be said to subsume F2 iff, for
# every feature in F1, the same feature exists in F2 and the value of
# the feature in F1 subsumes the value in F2. Furthermore, an atomic
# value will only subsume another atomic if they are equal.
#
# NOTE: I'll postpone the question of whether None should subsume
# everything.
#
# Let's unpack the definition.
#
# The definition depends on whether the two objects being compared are
# dictionaries or not. Let's initially cover the non-dictionary case.

def _subsume_1(value1, value2):
    return value1 == value2

assert _subsume_1("np", "np")
assert not _subsume_1("np", "vp")

# 
# Now let's define the corresponding function for two
# feature-structures with atomic values:

def _subsume_2(structure1, structure2):
    for feat in structure1:  # iterate over features in first
        if feat in structure2 and \
               _subsume_1(structure1[feat], structure2[feat]):
            pass                 # if compatible, continue along
        else:
            return 0             # found an incompatibility
    return 1                 # got through with no problems

assert _subsume_2({}, {})

fs1 = {
    "NUMBER": "sg",
    "PERSON": 3
}

fs2 = {
    "NUMBER": "pl",
    "PERSON" : 3
}

fs3 = {
    "NUMBER" : "sg"
}

fs4 = {
    "PERSON": 3
}

assert not _subsume_2(fs1, fs2)
assert not _subsume_2(fs1, fs3)
assert not _subsume_2(fs1, fs4)
assert not _subsume_2(fs2, fs1)
assert not _subsume_2(fs2, fs3)
assert not _subsume_2(fs2, fs4)
assert _subsume_2(fs3, fs1)
assert not _subsume_2(fs3, fs2)
assert not _subsume_2(fs3, fs4)
assert _subsume_2(fs4, fs1)
assert _subsume_2(fs4, fs2)
assert not _subsume_2(fs4, fs3)

# 
# Now we are in a position to properly define our subsume function:

def subsume(object1, object2):
    if type(object1) == type(object2) == dict:
        for feat in object1:
            if feat in object2 and \
                   subsume(object1[feat], object2[feat]):
                pass
            else:
                return 0
        return 1
    else:
        return object1 == object2

# 
# Let's repeat the same tests with the next function.

assert subsume("np", "np")
assert not subsume("np", "vp")

assert subsume({}, {})

assert not subsume(fs1, fs2)
assert not subsume(fs1, fs3)
assert not subsume(fs1, fs4)
assert not subsume(fs2, fs1)
assert not subsume(fs2, fs3)
assert not subsume(fs2, fs4)
assert subsume(fs3, fs1)
assert not subsume(fs3, fs2)
assert not subsume(fs3, fs4)
assert subsume(fs4, fs1)
assert subsume(fs4, fs2)
assert not subsume(fs4, fs3)

# 
# And now some new ones:

assert not subsume(1, fs1)
assert not subsume(fs1, 1)

fs5 = {
    "NUMBER": "sg",
    "GENDER": "masc"
}

assert not subsume(fs1, fs5)
assert not subsume(fs5, fs1)

fs6 = {
    "CAT": "np",
    "AGR": {
        "NUMBER": "sg",
        "PERSON": 3
    }
}

fs7 = {
    "CAT": "np"
}

fs8 = {
    "AGR": {
        "NUMBER": "sg"
    }
}

fs9 = {
    "AGR": {
        "PERSON" : 3
    }
}

assert not subsume(fs6, fs7)
assert not subsume(fs6, fs8)
assert not subsume(fs6, fs9)
assert subsume(fs7, fs6)
assert not subsume(fs7, fs8)
assert not subsume(fs7, fs9)
assert subsume(fs8, fs6)
assert not subsume(fs8, fs7)
assert not subsume(fs8, fs9)
assert subsume(fs9, fs6)
assert not subsume(fs9, fs7)
assert not subsume(fs9, fs8)

fs10 = {
    "AGR": {
        "PERSON" : 1
    }
}

assert not subsume(fs9, fs10)
assert not subsume(fs10, fs9)
assert not subsume(fs10, fs6)

### CONTINUED IN Part III (unification)


-- 
  James Tauber
  http://jtauber.com/




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Jun  5 14:34:46 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:34:46 -0500
Subject: Module for quasi-random sequences?
In-Reply-To: <1BLDa.10298$KF1.144776@amstwist00> ("carljohan.rehn@chello.se"'s
 message of "Thu, 05 Jun 2003 20:11:05 +0200")
References: <1BLDa.10298$KF1.144776@amstwist00>
Message-ID: <m27k80e5kp.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "carljohan" == carljohan rehn at chello se <carljohan.rehn at chello.se> writes:
    carljohan> Does anyone know if there exists a python module for
    carljohan> generating quasi-random sequences (Sobol, Halton,
    carljohan> Niedereiter, etc)?

GSL provides Sobol and Niederreiter

Quasi-random number generator algorithms
========================================

   The following quasi-random sequence algorithms are available,

 - Generator: gsl_qrng_niederreiter_2
     This generator uses the algorithm described in Bratley, Fox,
     Niederreiter, `ACM Trans. Model. Comp. Sim.' 2, 195 (1992). It is
     valid up to 12 dimensions.

 - Generator: gsl_qrng_sobol
     This generator uses the Sobol sequence described in Antonov,
     Saleev, `USSR Comput. Maths. Math. Phys.' 19, 252 (1980). It is
     valid up to 40 dimensions.

and there is a pygsl wrapper for GSL.  However, I don't believe the
current pygsl (as of v0.1) code wraps these functions specifically,
but if you know how to write python extensions, you can wrap it
yourself or extend pygsl.  

I just wrapped the GSL Levy distribution generating function yesterday
to fill a Numeric array, and it wasn't hard.  I could send you some
example code if you like.  When I get the time, I want to extend this
code to fill Numeric arrays with most/all of the available GSL random
number generators, because I work with arrays a lot and don't like the
performance hit of having to repeatedly call the pygsl functions in a
python loop.

John Hunter





From michaeljwhitmore at netscape.net  Mon Jun 23 09:56:38 2003
From: michaeljwhitmore at netscape.net (Michael J Whitmore)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 06:56:38 -0700
Subject: Newbie on importing
References: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B33A9@SRV-03> <mailman.1056133263.12332.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <68a42404.0306230556.21523c60@posting.google.com>

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the feedback...



From jubafre at brturbo.com  Tue Jun  3 10:28:41 2003
From: jubafre at brturbo.com (jubafre at brturbo.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:28:41 -0300 (BRT)
Subject: Tkinter text
Message-ID: <13910268.1054650521536.JavaMail.nobody@webmail1>

i have a text componnent, i and i have to get a start and a end positions to the selected(means: select a part of a text with the mouse) text in the text componnent??


Juliano Freitas

From sebastien.hugues at swissinfo.org  Tue Jun 17 09:09:17 2003
From: sebastien.hugues at swissinfo.org (Sebastien Hugues)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:09:17 +0200
Subject: Debug version of Python 2.2 on win32 platform ?
Message-ID: <3EEF12FD.9020905@swissinfo.org>

Hi

Does anyone know where i could find a binary version of Python 2.2 with
all debug symbols enabled for win32 ? I tried to build it from
scratch, but i cannot set up the wise installation due to a wrong version of wise.

Thanks in advance
Regards

Sebastien







From exarkun at intarweb.us  Fri Jun  6 02:13:27 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 02:13:27 -0400
Subject: trouble embedding python
In-Reply-To: <20030605211532.12139.00000114@mb-m04.aol.com>
References: <20030605211532.12139.00000114@mb-m04.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030606061327.GA17460@meson.dyndns.org>

On Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 01:15:32AM +0000, TheDustbustr wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> 
> *** BEGIN main() ***
> ...
> Script_LoadScript(script, "pobj");
> result=PyDict_GetItemString(script.pDict, "Human.str");

  This isn't right.  You need to get "Human" separately from "str".

    PyObject* human = PyObject_GetAttrString(script.pDict, "Human");
    if (human == NULL) {
        ...
    }
    PyObject* str = PyObject_GetAttrString(human, "str");
    if (str == NULL) {
        ...
    }
    ...


> [snip]

  Stepping back a bit: consider not embedding at all, though.  It is more
effort for less result than writing extension modules.

  http://www.twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/extendit.html is a
reasonable summary of the differences between the two strategies, and why
you might select one over the other.

  Stepping back even more: consider why you would use any language other
than Python at all.  Python should be sufficient for anything except
interoperating with native libraries, which do require some wrapping.  If
you're using C++ for performance, consider optimizing -after- you've written
a fair part of your project, rather than before.  Premature optimization
leads to inflexible software, and closes down avenues for later optimization
when the problems may be better understood.

  Hope this helps,

  Jp




From pifpafpuf at gmx.de  Wed Jun 25 13:41:52 2003
From: pifpafpuf at gmx.de (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 10:41:52 -0700
Subject: jython type coercion to interface type
Message-ID: <16990fa4.0306250941.55973aba@posting.google.com>

How would I call a java constructor which takes a java.lang.CharSequence
as argument. Say, the java class goes like this

class X {
  public X(CharSequence s) { ... }
}

In the jython interpreter I tried along the lines of

  x = X("bla")

and got "1st arg can't be coerced to java.lang.CharSequence". Then

  x = X(CharSequence("bla"))

and got "can't instantiate interface (java.lang.CharSequence)"

Is there a way to typecast String to CharSequence or, mor generally,
a type to a supertype or interface?

  Harald Kirsch



From altis at semi-retired.com  Thu Jun  5 12:53:38 2003
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:53:38 -0700
Subject: ANN: free mailing list hosting now available for Python User Groups
Message-ID: <DvKDa.291$Ft4.28793@news.uswest.net>

Barry Warsaw has created a mailman hosting site for Python User Groups. The
hosting is free and all administration is handled through the mailman web
interface. The instructions for getting your list created have been added to
the User Groups page:

  http://www.python.org/UserGroups.html#usergroups

If you already have a Python User Group, but don't have a mailing list or
would like to move your existing group to mailman, this is a simple way to
make the switch.

This is also a great opportunity to start a Python User Group in your area.

BTW, we're looking for a volunteer to lead the Python user groups effort. We
need some web pages to help people get started creating a group, the
benefits, etc. If you're interested in leading this effort or have past
experience in organizing user groups and would like to help, please email me
directly. Local Python advocacy and support is important to promoting
Python. A big thanks to Barry for taking care of the mailing list obstacle.

ka
---
Kevin Altis
altis at semi-retired.com
http://altis.pycs.net/
http://www.pythoncard.org/




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  2 02:46:45 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 00:46:45 -0600
Subject: iterator.next() confusion
In-Reply-To: <20030529174251.GA68946@doublegemini.com>; from cce@clarkevans.com on Thu, May 29, 2003 at 05:42:51PM +0000
References: <20030529174251.GA68946@doublegemini.com>
Message-ID: <20030602004645.A8933@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Clark C. Evans:
> Hello all.  The iterator PEP doesn't seem to say if the next() method
> of the iterator could be cached during a loop, for example:
  [...]
> Code like the above seems to work with most iterables, however,
> it will get into an endless loop with the following iterator:
> 
>     class evilIterator:
  [...iterator for which calling self.next rebinds self.next...]

This kind of iterator actually fails in for loops if it is made
new-style.

> Which is incorrect use of the iterator PEP?  [...]

For new-style objects only type(it).next is used; whether it is
shadowed by an instance attribute doesn't matter.  So my feeling
is that using an instance-specific .next is not kosher, even
though it works for old-style iterators.  (Note that the PEP
speaks only of defining .next in the class.)

It is possible to write an evil new-style iterator, though:

    class NewEvilIterator(object):
        def __iter__(self):
            return self
        def next(self):
            NewEvilIterator.next = NewEvilIterator.next_stop
            return 1
        def next_stop(self):
            raise StopIteration()

This works, sort of.  Certainly a for loop looks up the .next
class attribute anew at each iteration.  Of course, as a real
technique this is useless; you can't have multiple independent
instances of such a class, even if their lifetimes don't overlap.

I can't think of a way to write a usable new-style iterator class
which breaks under caching of .next.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                     staschuk at telusplanet.net
Receive them ignorant; dispatch them confused.  (Weschler's Teaching Motto)




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun 23 12:28:22 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:28:22 -0400
Subject: non blocking named pipes
References: <3ef72290$0$20050$fb624d75@newsspool.solnet.ch>
Message-ID: <3EF72AA6.6912C0A3@engcorp.com>

Yves Serrano wrote:
> 
> I have a problem with named pipes....
> I searched in the web, but don't found any working solution....
> 
> My Problem is that I have a pipe (/temp/pipe) where sometimes some data
> ist written into, but not very often.
> I try to write a python script that opens the pipe and gets the data if
> its there. I no data is there the script
> should not block, it should immediately exit without data.
> 
> How to do that?
> 
> I'm using python 2.2 on linux

There may be a better way, but the select.select() function is probably
capable of doing what you need.  Just give it timeout parameter of 0
to avoid blocking.

mypipe = open-my-pipe(/temp/pipe)

dr, dw, de = select([mypipe], [], [], 0)
if dr == [mypipe]:
    # read from mypipe here...

-Peter



From m at moshez.org  Tue Jun 10 01:58:32 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 05:58:32 -0000
Subject: Hardware take on software testing.
In-Reply-To: <3EE4F2F0.2EC4FBA5@engcorp.com>
References: <3EE4F2F0.2EC4FBA5@engcorp.com>, <2ae25c6b.0306060450.78e988f9@posting.google.com> <3EE0CF2B.57F474E4@engcorp.com> <2ae25c6b.0306061721.148300a@posting.google.com> <3EE14F0A.3D1E1887@engcorp.com> <2259b0e2.0306091158.701ed82a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030610055832.24762.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Mon, 09 Jun 2003, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> We find we achieve 100% code coverage on code that is purely test-driven,
> and we _do_ expect no bugs.
<snip>
> though from time 
> to time we find them.  Make any sense?  I should have said "you should 
> expect no bugs", and didn't mean to imply you will never have them.

One area where you easily find lots and lots of bugs, even when you
have a good testing suite, is when porting software. Frequently, that's
irrelevant -- if you're developing an in-house solution which has to
run on, say, Debian Woody, and you're running tests on Debian Woody,
then everything is fine.

Where I saw this problem was in Twisted. Now, I do realize Twisted
has *far* from enough tests. But even the tests that do exist do not
keep us "bug free" as far as they go. For example, suppose I write
some code, put in a test, and it works. I happily commit. Now it
turns out that in Python 2.3, this test spits pending deprecation
warnings. No problems, I fix this, and test with both 2.2 and 2.3.
Now, the problem is that the test doesn't run if the machine needs
a proxy to connect to the web. OK, I hack around it. Now I run it
again, and it seems that my code had a race condition: to stop it
from hanging the test suite, I put in a time limit, but the limit
was too short. So, I increase the limit. Now I commit, and someone
running the unit tests with the qtreactor has problems. Having no
qtreactor-able set up, I cannot even be sure how to fix it.
So on, and on, ad neasuem. Now, I'm not saying that tests do not
help -- I am just saying that writing tests in portable ways,
even if the code they test is itself portable, is highly non-trivial

I predict the XP response to it: "define the platforms you want,
and then have the running-tests command automatically run on all
those platforms". Unfortunately, again real life intervenes. If every
commit had to run the test suite 10 times on five different machines,
little real work would be done.

-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Jun  5 15:12:09 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:12:09 +0200
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7F3A@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
References: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7F3A@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
Message-ID: <20030605191209.GB4816@nl.linux.org>

Leeds, Mark schreef op donderdag  5 juni om 20:56:34 +0000:
> i'm a python beginner but I have three books and i couldn't find an
> answer to the following question.
>  
> i have a date, say as a string 26Nov2002 and i want to convert it to a
> string 20021126.
>  
> it's probably possible to write a function to do this by creating
> a table of months to numbers but I was hoping that
> there was some kind of python function i could use instead ?

time.strptime does what you want.

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-time.html#l2h-1676

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
11. If the owner do not bring witnesses to identify the lost article,
he is an evil-doer, he has traduced, and shall be put to death.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Jun 16 22:34:17 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:34:17 +1200
Subject: Python articles
In-Reply-To: <3eecd89a$0$49116$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.1055704587.15481.python-list@python.org> <nrkpevsm7psg011fvqs0qjh6uj2jjbmjph@4ax.com> <3eecd89a$0$49116$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <bcltar$k61vg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
> No trouble here with Mozilla 1.3.1, and Konqueror.
> 
> I did have to accept an invalid SSL certificate though...

I accepted the certificates and then got error number
-8173 attempting to establish an encrypted connection.

(Mozilla 1.3b)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Jun  8 15:30:10 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 15:30:10 -0400
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <2259b0e2.0306080415.52a8ba8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <YYqdnZQS5fJeE36jXTWcoQ@comcast.com>

"Michele Simionato" <mis6 at pitt.edu> wrote in message
news:2259b0e2.0306080415.52a8ba8 at posting.google.com...
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:<tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA at comcast.com>...>
>
> > So if we are to make special syntactic rules for lambda, I would
like
> > to make them less powerful by restricting the expression body to
> > lambda-less expressions
>
> Cool! Unfortunately, this cannot be done because it would break
existing
> code

I was suggesting this as a possibility for Python 3, which *will*
break existing code by removing deprecated features.  How much and
when is still up in the air.

>(most of it in Python obfuscated code contests ;-).

That was my intention ;-)

> Anyway, it is a nice idea and I like it!

At least one of the PyDev regulars (forget who) has suggested, I
believe seriously, that lambda be one of the things deprecated (in the
last of 2.x series) and then removed in 3.0.  The above is an
in-between suggestion.

Terry J. Reedy





From p-abel at t-online.de  Wed Jun 11 04:37:16 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 01:37:16 -0700
Subject: Scrollable Tkinter widget not threadsafe?
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0306110037.6611eefa@posting.google.com>

Hi all,
Im developping an controlling application on an embedded linux.
It gets its input from multiple sensors and other applications
via a data-interface.
The ouput goes to a data-interfaces, from where it is displayed
on a monitor.

At the moment Im developping under W2k and Python 2.2.2.
I simulate the sensors by Tkinter-widgets (Scales, Radiobuttons).
The output is directed to the same Tkinter-window to
output-widgets (Listboxes, Labels).
The Testsuite under W2k consists of 3 parts:
1) The controlling application, which runs in a thread
2) The Tkinter-window, which runs in a thread too
3) A main-program, which glues 1) and 2) togather.

All works fine.
Now the number of output-widgets is growing, and it became necessary
that the Tkinter-window would be scrollable. With some effort I made
it
work with the help of Fredrik Lundh's example **Autohiding
Scrollbars**
at http://effbot.org/zone/tkinter-autoscrollbar.htm.

But I couldn't make it work with threads.

Either it is not possible or I made some mistake when calling
the thread.
The following code snippet represents the kernel of my problem.
It works, when with_threads is False but not when True.
Any help would be appriciated.

import Tkinter,thread,time
#====================================
class FrameScollTest (Tkinter.Frame):
#====================================
  """
    A class to Test scrolling of widgets with
    several child-widgets
  """
  #-----------------------------------------------------------------
  def __init__ (self, master = None, **packOptions):
  #-----------------------------------------------------------------
    Tkinter.Frame.__init__ (self, master)

    self.canvas = Tkinter.Canvas
(self,width=80,height=50,bg='white',relief='flat')

    self.vscroll = Tkinter.Scrollbar
(self,orient='vertical',command=self.canvas.yview)
    self.canvas.configure(yscrollcommand=self.vscroll.set)

    self.container = Tkinter.Frame (self.canvas)


    self.label_1 = Tkinter.Label (self.container, {
        'bg'     : 'green',
        'relief' : 'ridge',
        'text'   : 'GREEN 1'
        })
    self.label_2 = Tkinter.Label (self.container, {
        'bg'     : 'white',
        'relief' : 'ridge',
        'text'   : 'WHITE 2'
        })
    self.label_3 = Tkinter.Label (self.container, {
        'bg'     : 'red',
        'relief' : 'ridge',
        'text'   : 'RED 3'
        })
    self.label_4 = Tkinter.Label (self.container, {
        'bg'     : 'blue',
        'relief' : 'ridge',
        'text'   : 'BLUE 4'
        })
    self.label_5 = Tkinter.Label (self.container, {
        'bg'     : 'yellow',
        'relief' : 'ridge',
        'text'   : 'YELLOW 5'
        })

#===============================
#   GRIDDING
#===============================
    self.canvas.grid(row=0,column=0,sticky='nesw')

    self.vscroll.grid  (row=0, column=1, sticky='ns')

    self.container.grid({
        'in' : self.canvas,
        'column' : '0',
        'row' : '0',
        'sticky' : 'nesw'
        })

    self.label_1.grid({
        'in' : self.container,
        'column' : '0',
        'row' : '0',
        'sticky' : 'nesw'
        })
    self.label_2.grid({
        'in' : self.container,
        'column' : '0',
        'row' : '1',
        'sticky' : 'nesw'
        })
    self.label_3.grid({
        'in' : self.container,
        'column' : '0',
        'row' : '2',
        'sticky' : 'nesw'
        })
    self.label_4.grid({
        'in' : self.container,
        'column' : '0',
        'row' : '3',
        'sticky' : 'nesw'
        })
    self.label_5.grid({
        'in' : self.container,
        'column' : '0',
        'row' : '4',
        'sticky' : 'nesw'
        })

    # The widget itself
    self.rowconfigure (0, {'weight' : 1, 'minsize' : 10})
    # --
    self.columnconfigure (0, {'weight' : 1})
    self.columnconfigure (1, {'weight' : 0})

    # The canvas
    self.canvas.rowconfigure(0, weight=1)
    #--
    self.canvas.columnconfigure(0, weight=0)

    # The container
    self.container.rowconfigure (0, {'weight' : 0, 'minsize' : 80})
    self.container.rowconfigure (1, {'weight' : 0, 'minsize' : 80})
    self.container.rowconfigure (2, {'weight' : 0, 'minsize' : 80})
    self.container.rowconfigure (3, {'weight' : 0, 'minsize' : 80})
    self.container.rowconfigure (4, {'weight' : 0, 'minsize' : 80})
    #--
    self.container.columnconfigure (0, {'weight' : 0, 'minsize' : 80})

    # Make canvas scrollable
    self.canvas.create_window(0, 0, anchor='nw',
window=self.container)
    self.container.update_idletasks()
    self.canvas.config(scrollregion=self.canvas.bbox("all"))


#---------------------
def show_widget():
#---------------------
  global root, activated

  activated=True
  print 'in show_widget'
  root.mainloop()
  print 'root.mainloop ready ...'
  activated=False

#=========================================
if __name__ == '__main__':
  global root, activated

  activated    = False
  with_threads = False

  root=Tkinter.Tk()
  FrameScollTest (root).pack(fill='both',expand=True)

  if with_threads:

    # 1) With thread
    thread.start_new_thread(show_widget,())
    # Give the thread a little time to install
    time.sleep(2.0)
    while activated:
      pass
    print 'ready with thread  ...'

  else:

    # 2) Without thread
    root.mainloop ()
    print 'ready without thread  ...'

Regards
Peter



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jun  5 23:33:30 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:33:30 -0500
Subject: Persistent sets
Message-ID: <16096.2954.202393.226411@montanaro.dyndns.org>

Related to the trigraph thread, I thought it would be nice if the Set
output by the three-character n-gram generator was persistent because it
takes awhile to generate.  I was pleasantly surprised to see how easy it is:

    import sets
    import shelve

    class PersistentSet(sets.Set):
        def __init__(self, file, iterable=None):
            self._data = shelve.open(file)
            if iterable is not None:
                self._update(iterable)

I haven't tried it for anything other than the little generator, and while
obviously slower to generate than if I had used a regular set, it saves a
lot of startup time when you have a large mostly read-only set.

    >>> s = psets.PersistentSet("trigraphs")
    >>> "abc" in s
    True
    >>> "xzz" in s
    False
    >>> "aaa" in s
    False

The above trigraph set contains 8106 elements and was generated from
/usr/share/dict/words, which on my current machine contains 234937 words.

Skip




From marcus.bergmann at isst.fhg.de  Tue Jun 17 08:54:30 2003
From: marcus.bergmann at isst.fhg.de (Marcus Bergmann)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:54:30 +0200
Subject: insert thousands separators (solved)
References: <3EE9E548.9010701@isst.fhg.de>
Message-ID: <3EEF0F86.6050108@isst.fhg.de>

Problem is solved. I took the following code (from Bengt Richter):


   def commafy(self,val):
     sign, val, rest = '-'[:val<0], str(abs(val)), []
     while val: val, rest = val[:-3], ([val[-3:]] + rest)
     return sign + '.'.join(rest)

Thank to all :-)

Regards,
Marcus


Marcus Bergmann wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> how can I insert thousands separators into an integer or a string, e.g. 
> 1000000 to 1.000.000?
> 
> Thanks and cheers,
> Marcus




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jun 20 12:07:41 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:07:41 -0500
Subject: Using OS time
In-Reply-To: <200306201645.16587.tireseas@onetel.com>
References: <20030620152602.22899.77521.Mailman@mail.python.org>
        <200306201645.16587.tireseas@onetel.com>
Message-ID: <16115.12621.163636.630622@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Andy> The problem:

    Andy> I am writing a rather simple guessing game (a random number is
    Andy> generated, user has to guess the number).  I am wanting to
    Andy> introduce a time-limit on the game-play so that the user has -
    Andy> e.g. 60 seconds - within which to guess the correct number
    Andy> otherwise they lose.

How about signal.alarm()?

    alarm(...)
        alarm(seconds)

        Arrange for SIGALRM to arrive after the given number of seconds.

You will obviously have to have a signal handler set up to recover from the
signal.  You'll have to experiment to see if the signal will terminate the
call to raw_input() (or whatever you're using to gather user input).

Skip




From simonb at webone.com.au  Fri Jun  6 16:35:45 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 06:35:45 +1000
Subject: Singleton class: what is the purpose?
References: <20030605111536.GA3436@nl.linux.org> <mailman.1054814890.6876.python-list@python.org> <WqSDa.1962$o%.2111148@news3.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.06.20.35.27.748072@webone.com.au>

On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 01:49:42 +0000, Gordon Scott wrote:

> Is there any difference between the Borg and the Flyweight?  Sound like the
> same thing.
> 
> Gordo
> 

My take:

A Flyweight would be an instance shared, where there are many flyweights.
If there is only one flyweight then it's a singleton.

ints (and the other immutables) are flyweights in python.

Simon Burton.






From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 12 18:39:21 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:39:21 -0600
Subject: Glue code
References: <2996386.1055452530@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <bcavep$h6b$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

DB_RobertP wrote:

> 
> What systems do people use to easily make C/C++ code visible to Python?
> I'm currently checking out Swig, but I've heard others mentioned. If
> anyone has any experience with these systems, could you recommend one to
> look into? Also, any other general pointers when trying to extend C/C++
> code to python sctipts would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks!
> Robert
> 
> --
> Posted via http://dbforums.com

I'm a big weave.inline fan (http://scipy.org).  I'm attaching here some example
code which can get you off the ground.  But inline is meant for short snippets,
if you want to wrap a large library and freely mix C++ and python into your
object structure, boost.python is the way to go.

Here's an excellent overview I just read today:

http://www.cuj.com/documents/s=8188/cuj0307abrahams/

Best,

f.
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From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jun  8 14:10:10 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 14:10:10 -0400
Subject: program path
References: <fyvEa.17336$pK2.23786@news.indigo.ie>
		<3EE28ABC.7D6DB511@engcorp.com>
		<D0wEa.17343$pK2.23880@news.indigo.ie>
		<3EE2AD6E.933C6ED7@engcorp.com>
		<mailman.1055048954.23011.python-list@python.org>
		<3EE36B46.343D8774@engcorp.com> <mailman.1055092216.26497.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE37C02.3E43BBB@engcorp.com>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Can anyone with access to a WinNT/XP machine that can invoke
> > scripts without explicitly specifying "python.exe" in the
> > command line add to this?
> 
> #v+
> C:\>copy con: tmp\x.py
> import sys
> print sys.argv[0]
> ^Z
>          1 file(s) copied.
> 
> C:\>tmp\x.py
> C:\tmp\x.py
> 
> C:\>ver
> 
> Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
> #v-

Thanks Gerhard, but could you please try running it via
a directory available only via PATH?

Explicitly specifying the directory should always lead
to sys.argv[0] containing the "as invoked" name, but we're
not sure what would happen if it's found via the PATH.

-Peter



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Jun 19 04:41:16 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 10:41:16 +0200
Subject: Installing Python on Solaris 9
References: <2c1dda69.0306190001.53837879@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3isr2a28j.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

solarisboy007 at yahoo.com (Solaris Boy) writes:

> I set the environment variables and compiled the stuff. 
> 
> Python was installed in /usr/local/Python-2.2.3/python. 

Can you report how exactly you have 'installed' python? In particular,
did this involve invoking 'make install'?

It appears that you did not install Python, but merely built it. If
you had installed it, the python executable would end up in a 'bin'
directory.

> Also How do I quit out of python

Ctrl-D, as with any other Unix program.

Regards,
Martin



From just at xs4all.nl  Fri Jun 20 17:55:00 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:55:00 +0200
Subject: os.listdir()
References: <s6KIa.218256$g92.4546830@news2.tin.it> <just-CDC716.22300020062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <b7LIa.218628$g92.4560101@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <just-CDEAFA.23550020062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <b7LIa.218628$g92.4560101 at news2.tin.it>,
 "manuel" <manuelbastioni at tin.it> wrote:

> > It's written in C, in Modules/posixmodule.c. os.py >imports it.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Exist another method to read the files
> in a directory? I want write a script for Blender,
> and because the OS module isn't builtin, and I've need
> only this function, I want write a very simple
> python class to read only the files in a dir.
> 
> It's possible?

If you can't "import os" in Blender, something is wrong...

Just



From dsavitsk at ecpsoftware.com  Mon Jun  2 01:45:32 2003
From: dsavitsk at ecpsoftware.com (dsavitsk)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 05:45:32 GMT
Subject: dictionary issue (and maybe PEP ... depending on the answer)
Message-ID: <0wBCa.651$ig1.627675@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

(Python 2.2.1 on FreeBSD 4.7 being used via mod_python 3)

I have a dictionary at the top of a module that looks like this

_months = {1: 'January',
	   2: 'February',
	   3: 'March',
	   4: 'April',
	   5: 'May',
	   6: 'June',
	   7: 'July',
	   8: 'August',
	   9: 'September',
	   10: 'October',
	   11: 'November',
	   12: 'December'}

never mind, for now, that there are proably better ways to do what the 
dict obviously does.  anyhow, I get a list of the months by doing this

 >>> [_months[i] for i in _months.keys()]

The issue is, this consistently returns the months in order. I don't see 
any obvious reason that it does, but I can't get it to fail. So,I am 
wondering if there is a reason, or is it serendipity.

Assuming that there is not a good reason, the PEP idea is adding a 
sorted_keys() method to dictionaries which would just return the keys in 
the same order they would be in by doing this.

 >>> l = d.keys()
 >>> l.sort()

The advantage is that using dictionary keys in list comprehensions would 
be easier, but other than that it is not too big a deal.

Thanks,

Doug




From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jun 12 02:34:08 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:34:08 +1200
Subject: Octets calculation?
In-Reply-To: <wcyeo-A3A0B7.01530011062003@shawnews.gv.shawcable.net>
References: <65eFa.634621$Si4.577158@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <bc673d$f0tpn$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <0modevgetee4eh0pg2k7s4qhacq7s6bbkm@4ax.com> <wcyeo-A3A0B7.01530011062003@shawnews.gv.shawcable.net>
Message-ID: <bc95ic$gl1s5$2@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

William Yeo wrote:
> Ah yes, and remember Honeywell in the glorious 70's whose systems used 
> 36 bits arranged as 6 6-bit bytes or 4 9-bit bytes depending on whether 
> you're in batch or timesharing mode.

But were these actually called "bytes"? That's the
crucial thing here. I can remember such units being
referred to as "characters" or some such, but not
"bytes".

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Sun Jun 29 10:24:25 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 08:24:25 -0600
Subject: struct.pack and perl's 'B' code for bitstrings
In-Reply-To: <20030628084946.GA78521@hishome.net>
References: <20030627201935.3669537E73@www.fastmail.fm> <20030628084946.GA78521@hishome.net>
Message-ID: <20030629142425.86F7C38292@www.fastmail.fm>

Yes, I meant 'featureful'.  Thank you for your advice.  This helpful for
me.  Part of the problem is I haven't done much with byte/bit
manipulation, so when I don't have the capabilities I'm used to I have a
hard time being inovative.  :-(

Thanks much.
-Justin

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 04:49:46 -0400, "Oren Tirosh" <oren-py-l at hishome.net>
said:
> On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 02:19:35PM -0600, Justin Johnson wrote:
> > Is there anything equivalent to perl's pack code B, which allows you to
> > specify bits to pack?  For example, in perl, pack('B8', '00000010') will
> > return 8 bits exactly as the bit string appears.  I don't see any similar
> > codes in struct.pack.  In general struct.pack is not as robust as perl's
> > pack function.  
> 
> Are you using the word 'robust' to mean 'featureful'?  
> 
> > Is there a better version of struct somewhere, or how are
> > people overcoming some of these problems?
> 
> I've heard of some alternative version of struct. I've never checked if 
> they have bitstring options. When I need something like this I just use 
> the int or long constructor with radix 2:
> 
> >>> struct.pack('B', int('00000010', 2))
> '\x02'
> 
> >>> struct.pack('>H', int('0001001000011000', 2))
> '\x12\x18'
> 
>     Oren
> 




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun 18 12:52:54 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:52:54 -0600
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <87ptlbml4b.fsf@pobox.com>; from jjl@pobox.com on Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 05:00:20PM +0100
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3EEDEDBE.BCB56D6E@engcorp.com> <HGMnCw.5tM@arl.mil> <un0gg6ve3.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <873ci7o7c0.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1055950113.21958.python-list@python.org> <87ptlbml4b.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20030618105254.I637@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth John J. Lee:
> Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:
  [...]
> > But I find it greatly eases
> > debugging and one-off data munging tasks.
> 
> That's what I was referring to, and I assume David too.  If any
> function or class is more than say 5 lines, I use emacs.  [...]

Hm... then I think I'm missing something.

When debugging, all the substantial code is written elsewhere; I
just import it and fiddle.  When data munging, I load the data
into memory and fiddle.  Each fiddle is almost invariably a single
line of code, so errors are not big setbacks.

> [...] It's still
> convenient, but can be replaced quite easily with a good IDE, I think.

I'm not sure how an IDE would help with interactive data-munging,
unless it provides an environment very similar to the one which
the interactive prompt provides.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                 o- @
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      7O   )
                                                               "  (




From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Thu Jun 12 10:15:02 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:15:02 GMT
Subject: pythonCOM with Flash
In-Reply-To: <RvPFa.37$zx6.1430@news.optus.net.au>
References: <RvPFa.37$zx6.1430@news.optus.net.au>
Message-ID: <GV%Fa.2949$GU5.41737@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Bradley Schatz wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am attempting to use Flash as a UI for a python program. I have
> successfully prototyped this using VB/Flash, and am not trying to convert it
> over to work with python.
> 
> My problem is this, when I run the following code (attached below) nothing
> happens.
> 
> I assume that the Flash activex component needs to be placed in some
> container to be seen, as I am not seeing any window come up when I run this.
> 
> Could anyone suggest how to embed this into a container?

Look at the Pythonwin OCS demos, under the pywin\demos directory. 
wxPython also has some ActiveX container support, but I have never used it.

Mark.




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun 19 08:46:41 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:46:41 -0400
Subject: Binary adresse for localhost
References: <3ef18bc1$0$14312$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <3EF1B0B1.A5181869@engcorp.com>

Benoit BESSE wrote:
> 
> for "224.4.0.1" the binary adresse is 0xe0040001L.

Actually, that's a hexadecimal value, not a binary one.
The difference is that binary refers to base 2, while
hexadecimal (hex==6, dec==10) refers to base 16.  Each
pair of digits, in this form, represents 8 binary bits,
for a total of 32 (aka a "long word").

> What is the corresponding convertion for 127.0.0.1.

Python's hex() method is helpful here:  hex(127) == 7f
the same way that hex(224) is e0.

-Peter



From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Jun 13 12:27:44 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:27:44 -0600
Subject: Type hierarchy
References: <mailman.1055514878.28221.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcctqp$39d$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Gerrit Holl:
> But wouldn't a type hierarchy be very useful for other types as
> well? For example, checking whether something is a number, currently
> needs isinstance(o, int) or isinstance(o, long), or float... although
> ints and longs are going to be the same. Would it be wise to let those
> have common base types?

I haven't needed that discrimination ... at least not that I can remember.
I have done some type-based dispatching, which was either very
specific (as for serialization of different data types) or special cased
only
one type, as in

   def read_it(file):
      if isinstance(file, string):
        file = open(file)
      ....

The basestring type is useful because I want to handle byte strings and
unicode strings equivalently in many cases.  But numbers as you mention?
No.

> For example:

Suppose I have this:

class Headers:
   ....
  def __getitem__(self, i):
    if isinstance(i, int):
      return self._headers_list[i]
    return self._headers_dict[i]

  def __setitem((self, k, v):
    self._headers_list.append(v)
    self._headers_dict[k] = v

  def __iter__(self):
    return iter(self._headers_list)

  def keys(self):
    return self._headers_dict.keys()
  ...

This is a specialized dict-like / list-like with mixed mutability.
(dict is more mutable, but list isn't immutable because elements
can be changed from underneath it.)

So this wouldn't be one of your types, but could be used by
code which overly asserts type checking.  Which would be sad.

Except *possibly* for the existance of a "number" type, I don't
think this suggestion gives any useful power or flexibility to
Python, while encouraging ex-statically-typed-language programmers
to do unneeded and detrimental type checks.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jun  1 04:37:02 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 1 Jun 2003 08:37:02 GMT
Subject: Tkinter.Canvas.create_line.coords
References: <mailman.1054454042.24780.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbcdve$dcd$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:53:20 +0200 (CEST), Arnd Baecker <arnd.baecker at web.de> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I have a question concerning modifying a line created
>within a Canvas:
>
>It boils down to that (for `plot`  being a Canvas)
>    self.plot.coords(self.line,10,0,10,10,80,100,100,200)
>works, whereas
>    liste=[10,0,10,10,80,100,100,200]
>    self.plot.coords(self.line,liste)
I would try prefixing a '*' on the theory that the function is defined like foo below:
     self.plot.coords(self.line, *liste)

Notice:
 >>> def foo(first, *rest): print first,rest
 ...
 >>> foo(1,2,3,4)
 1 (2, 3, 4)
 >>> r = [2,3,4]
 >>> foo(1,r)
 1 ([2, 3, 4],)
Note what happened in the preceding: the entire r simply became the first and only
arg in the args tuple, which has length 1 instead of 3.

 >>> foo(1,*r)
 1 (2, 3, 4)
Compare this result to the original. We have unpacked r into the arg sequence,
so the r elements show up as if they had been passed as separate args.

>raises the error:
>    self.tk.splitlist(
>    TclError: bad screen distance "[10,"
>((Maybe the example below more clearly demonstrates what I mean here.))
>
>Actually, help(Tkinter.Canvas.coords) gives
>  coords(self, *args) unbound Tkinter.Canvas method
looks like foo above.

[...]

If the above works, we can go on to the next problem, which someone else
will have to get into if it's going to happen tonight ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From drmental at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 21 11:32:42 2003
From: drmental at yahoo.com (Thunder Perfect Mind)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 08:32:42 -0700
Subject: Problems retreiving double from database
References: <d2ef95ea.0306201417.77b78db7@posting.google.com> <slrnbf72rb.dk.t_therkelsen@abattoir.2-10.org>
Message-ID: <d2ef95ea.0306210732.317d2ec5@posting.google.com>

That explains it....

Thank you so much

dr//\//\



From marks.pryorSHRUB at CHENEYverizon.net  Fri Jun 27 01:11:04 2003
From: marks.pryorSHRUB at CHENEYverizon.net (Mark S Pryor)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 05:11:04 GMT
Subject: win32ui screen capture
References: <o43nfvsc8r4q934p709l1g3thtoube37qn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <IlQKa.4463$Ei4.1683@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

Hi,
<Me Mine> wrote in message
news:o43nfvsc8r4q934p709l1g3thtoube37qn at 4ax.com...
> i,
> I have trying to code a small console app that will
> allow a user to select a window and then create a
> screen capture of the window.  I haven't been able to
> figure out how to do the screen capture part.  The
> code is as follows, the commented out lines at the end
> are things I have tried, but don't work.  Whenever I
> try to create a compatibe Bitmap or DC it comes back
> with an error as
> win32ui: CreateCompatibleDC failed
> or
> AttributeError: CreateCompatibleDC
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> import win32gui
> import win32ui
>
> numWindows = 0
> windows = []
> winDict = {}
> windowsText=[]
> inc = 0
>
> def _MyCallback( hwnd, extra ):
> extra.append(hwnd)
>
>
> win32gui.EnumWindows(_MyCallback, windows)
> for i in windows:
> if win32gui.IsWindowVisible(i):
> if win32gui.IsWindowVisible:
> windowsText.append(i)
> winDict[numWindows] = i
> numWindows +=1
>
>
>
>
> print "Please select a window to capture"
> for window in windowsText:
> windowText = win32gui.GetWindowText(window)
> print inc, windowText
> inc += 1
>
> selection = input()
>
> print win32gui.GetWindowText(winDict[selection])
> myDC = win32ui.CreateDCFromHandle(winDict[selection])
> win32gui.SetForegroundWindow(winDict[selection])
> win_sz = win32gui.GetClientRect(winDict[selection])
> myBitMap = win32ui.CreateBitmap()
> #myMemDC = win32ui.CreateCompatibleDC(myDC)
> #myBitMap.BitBlt((0,0),(win_sz[2],win_sz[3],myDC,(0,0),0))
> #myBitMap.CreateCompatibleBitMap(myDC,win_sz[2], win_sz[3])
> #myBitMap.CreateCompatibleDC(myDC)
>
>
> Thanks,
> Rob

You may be able to make this work ... eventually. However,
circulating in the Python community you will find the C file
_grabscreen.c with all the same API calls you are trying to use
in standard C.

see this post
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1011217637.9447.python-list%40p
ython.org

It explains how to compile the module _grabscreen.pyd with MS Visual C.
I was able to get a screen shot script in 10 minutes after I read this
post. If you don't have a grabscreen module already, see this ZIP file
for the relevant files. Use the file ImageGrab1.py to make a screen
capture of the desktop and save the results as PNG.

(for ActivePython 2.2 only)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res1ur2j/GrabScreen.zip

you will need PIL from
http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/

hth,
Mark Pryor





From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun  4 05:18:29 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:18:29 +0200
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
In-Reply-To: <1ieDa.35049$DV.60225@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com> <PNdDa.824522$OV.780836@rwcrnsc54> <bbjpt9$p0q$1@panix3.panix.com> <1ieDa.35049$DV.60225@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <20030604091829.GB2636@nl.linux.org>

Hi,

Bryan schreef op woensdag  4 juni om 06:11:23 +0000:
> ok, i understand what you mean now.  but, in a way, it seems that we are
> playing symantec games here. from a programmers prespective, it looks and
> feels like a keyword.
> 
> style 1:
> def myMethod(args) [staticmethod]:
>     blah, blah, blah
> 
> style 2:
> def staticmethod myMethod(args):
>     blah, blah, blah

style 3:
def myMethod(args)(staticmethod):
    blah, blah, blah

style 4:
def staticmethod(myMethod(args)):
    blah, blah, blah

BTW, what would happen if a modifier is applied that doesn't return
a callable (like def foo(args)(str):)? Would it raise an exception or
bind a string to 'foo', ignoring the contents of the 'def' declaration?

> but i have to vote -1 on style one, +1 on style 2, +0 keeping it the way it

style 1: -1
style 2: +0
style 3: +1
style 4: +0
for me

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
149. If this woman does not wish to remain in her husband's house, then
he shall compensate her for the dowry that she brought with her from her
father's house, and she may go.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Jun 21 23:00:51 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:00:51 -0400
Subject: random function with strings
In-Reply-To: <3ef51a51$0$8029$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEDAELAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[messageboardfan1 at yahoo.com]
> I have a function that goes through a directory and I would like to
> remove randomly one of the files contained in that directory. I
> checked out the random() function in the documentation but it only
> deals with integers.

random.choice(seq) returns an element from the its sequence argument.

> here's what my function looks like:
>
> with os.path.walk
> def delete_backups(arg, dirname, names):
>  /*here I need a function that select a file randomly and, let's
> call it "name", then I do this:*/
>             os.remove(os.path.join(dirname, name))
>
> any suggestions?

Do

    random.choice(names)

to pick a name at random.  Note that this will fail if names is empty, and
won't do what you hope for if the name returned happens to be the name of a
contained directory.





From missive at frontiernet.net  Fri Jun 20 16:21:29 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:21:29 GMT
Subject: Newbie on importing
References: <mailman.1056132640.18339.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbf6r7r.q36.missive@localhost.my.domain>

> That example is still less than clear...
> 
>>import sys
>>
>>Imports the module named 'sys'.
> 
> Which get me access to what in 'sys'?
> 
>>from sys import *
>>
>>Imports all names from sys (including names referring to functions).
> 
> Likewise, what additional thing are available when doing this? 
> Is 'import sys' a subset of 'from sys import *'?
> 
>


$python
Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jun  9 2003, 18:01:50)
[GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> dir()
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__']
>>> import sys
>>> dir()
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'sys']
>>> dir(sys)
['__displayhook__', '__doc__', '__excepthook__', '__name__', '__stderr__',\
 '__stdin__', '__stdout__', '_getframe', 'argv', 'builtin_module_names',\
 'byteorder', 'copyright', 'displayhook', 'exc_info', 'exc_type',\
 'excepthook', 'exec_prefix', 'executable', 'exit', 'getdefaultencoding',\
 'getdlopenflags', 'getrecursionlimit', 'getrefcount', 'hexversion',\
 'maxint', 'maxunicode', 'modules', 'path', 'platform', 'prefix',\
 'ps1', 'ps2', 'setcheckinterval', 'setdlopenflags', 'setprofile',\
 'setrecursionlimit', 'settrace', 'stderr', 'stdin', 'stdout', 'version',\
 'version_info', 'warnoptions']
>>>

$python
Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jun  9 2003, 18:01:50)
[GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> dir()
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__']
>>> from sys import *
>>> dir()
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'argv', 'builtin_module_names',\
 'byteorder', 'copyright', 'displayhook', 'exc_info', 'exc_type',\
 'excepthook', 'exec_prefix', 'executable', 'exit', 'getdefaultencoding',\
 'getdlopenflags', 'getrecursionlimit', 'getrefcount', 'hexversion',\
 'maxint', 'maxunicode', 'modules', 'path', 'platform', 'prefix', 'ps1',\
 'ps2', 'setcheckinterval', 'setdlopenflags', 'setprofile',\
 'setrecursionlimit', 'settrace', 'stderr', 'stdin', 'stdout',\
 'version', 'version_info', 'warnoptions']
>>>

 



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jun 12 12:59:57 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 12:59:57 -0400
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bcabid$h61$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce at 4ax.com>,
Manuel Garcia  <news at manuelmgarcia.com> wrote:
>
>If anyone ever asks for what good are 'lambda' and 'reduce', show them
>this...

Betcha Guido would call it one of the best arguments for rippin' 'em out.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From mwh at python.net  Fri Jun 13 07:47:15 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:47:15 GMT
Subject: Rudeness with names (was Re: interpreted)
References: <3EE5BF67.2040201@ghaering.de> <bc5a3j+j683@eGroups.com> <mailman.1055279061.23255.python-list@python.org> <slrnbeem1a.sdq.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net> <7h3d6hjmpbw.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <mailman.1055488709.18964.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h37k7qkxtp.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:

> Michael Hudson wrote:
> 
> > You know Yahoo! Groups used to be eGroups?  You know who was the
> > brains behind eGroups (and medusa and asyncore and calldll...)?
> 
> Scott Hassan wrote Medusa?

Wasn't Sam Rushing at eGroups?  Perhaps I should have researched that
post...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  The above comment may be extremely inflamatory. For your
  protection, it has been rot13'd twice.
                           -- the signature of "JWhitlock" on slashdot



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Jun  4 13:53:10 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 13:53:10 -0400
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
References: <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

>    (...)      The core internet components, for example, are quite robust
> already, and you will rarely see messages about rewriting/refactoring
> those pieces.

Just one small comment, since I generally don't see it mentioned in
postings about Twisted - the underlying protocol support for internet
components appear robust in terms of TCP support, but we found that
UDP support was much weaker when we last looked at Twisted (not too
long ago).

To the extent that WAN applications for existing popular protocols are
virtually all TCP based, this isn't much of an issue (and probably
explains the state of affairs), but if you're thinking of using
Twisted for in-house development, it's at least something to be aware
of and to check that it has the functionality you need.  For example
in our case, we use UDP-based systems probably in equal amounts to TCP
based systems for in house code.

Note that this is far from a knock on Twisted, which is certainly an
attractive framework in its own right.  But references to its support
for network processing generally don't mention the different level of
support at the protocol layer.

-- David



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jun 26 08:50:15 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:50:15 -0600
Subject: Reading a binary file
In-Reply-To: <3EFABDE0.7090205@semafor.ch>; from mas@semafor.ch on Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 11:33:20AM +0200
References: <3EFAA842.1070505@semafor.ch> <20030626083305.GF17335@frobozz> <3EFABDE0.7090205@semafor.ch>
Message-ID: <20030626065015.A329@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Sorin Marti:
  [...]
> That is not exactly what I meant. I've found a solution (a is the binary 
> data):
> 
> b = binascii.hexlify(a)
> 
> For example it gives me C8 which is a HEX-Value. How to change this one 
> into a decimal? (The decimal should be 130, right?)

200, actually; hex C = 12, so hex C8 = 12*16 + 8 = 200.

Each byte represents a number in the range [0..255].  Those
numbers may be obtained with the ord function, as Andrew noted:

    >>> bytes = file('foo.py', 'rb').read(10)
    >>> bytes
    'def inplac'
    >>> map(ord, bytes)
    [100, 101, 102, 32, 105, 110, 112, 108, 97, 99]

These are numbers, so you can, e.g., do arithmetic with them.
They are neither hex numbers nor decimal numbers; 'hex' and
'decimal' describe notations by which numbers may be represented,
not numbers themselves.  So, when you ask for the hex value, it
seems you want a string containing characters which represent the
number in hexadecimal notation.  The hex function does that, again
as Andrew noted:

    >>> numbers = map(ord, bytes)
    >>> [hex(num)[2:] for num in numbers]
    ['64', '65', '66', '20', '69', '6e', '70', '6c', '61', '63']

(I've cut out the leading '0x' which this function produces.)  As
you've discovered, binascii.hexlify does this all in one step --
turns a string containing bytes into a string containing
hexadecimal digits representing the bytes:

    >>> import binascii
    >>> binascii.hexlify(bytes)
    '64656620696e706c6163'

If, for some reason, you wanted to obtain numbers from such a
string, you could do it this way, for example:

    >>> def hex2numbers(s):
    ...     numbers = []
    ...     for i in range(0, len(s), 2):
    ...         numbers.append(int(s[i:i+2], 16))
    ...     return numbers
    ... 
    >>> hex2numbers(binascii.hexlify(bytes))
    [100, 101, 102, 32, 105, 110, 112, 108, 97, 99]

-- 
Steven Taschuk                staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I tried to be pleasant and accommodating, but my head
 began to hurt from his banality."   -- _Seven_ (1996)




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Jun 28 17:45:00 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 23:45:00 +0200
Subject: (Numeric) should -7 % 5 = -2 ?
References: <87k7b6cf3d.fsf_-_@schedar.com>
Message-ID: <bdl289$jhe$1@main.gmane.org>

Stan Heckman wrote:

> Is the following behavior expected, or have I broken my Numeric
> installation somehow?
>
> $ python
> >>> import Numeric
> >>> Numeric.__version__
> '23.0'
> >>> -7 % 5
> 3
> >>> Numeric.array(-7) % 5
> -2
> >>> Numeric.remainder(-7, 5)
> -2

looks like Numeric implements C semantics, which is different
from how Python does it.

</F>







From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jun 11 10:46:10 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 07:46:10 -0700
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <20030609081617512-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <2259b0e2.0306100802.c805a50@posting.google.com> <w00taVAClg5+EwsI@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306110646.50ea8242@posting.google.com>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<w00taVAClg5+EwsI at jessikat.demon.co.uk>...
> In article <2259b0e2.0306100802.c805a50 at posting.google.com>, Michele
> Simionato <mis6 at pitt.edu> writes
> ....
> 
> in this scheme you're notationally overriding the __metaclass__ for the
> class, is there a default __metadef__ concept to go along with the
> methods?
> 
> is
> 
> class A:
>     __metadef__ = traced
> 
> ......
> 
> could make all of A's methods 'traced'.
> 

Esplicit is better than implicit and I would prefer to write an
explicit metaclass like that:

>>> from types import FunctionType
>>> class Traced(type):
	def __init__(cls,name,bases,dic):
		for name,func in dic.iteritems():
			if isinstance(func,FunctionType):
				setattr(cls,name,traced(func))

Notice that typically one does NOT want to trace all functions, but
only a given subset. The explicit metaclass gives much more control.
For instance I could modify it to trace only special methods, or
only staticmethods, or any combination I wish.

                                                         Michele



From dwblas at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  5 15:49:05 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (DavidW Blaschke)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:49:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: data base
Message-ID: <20030605194905.12276.qmail@web21606.mail.yahoo.com>

I prefer metakit over SQLLite.  As I understand it,
SQLLite is an interface to gdbm.  Metakit is a step up
but is still easy to use.  But it is personal
preference, of course.  Search for database on
freshmeat and you'll probably find several options.
 
D.W.

> --- In python-list at yahoogroups.com, "Alex"
> <alexferri at e...> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > I'm newbie
> > 
> > What is the cross-platform/free data base that I
> can use in my 
> project?
> > 
> > The data base not need of server db such as SQL
> server/Oracle/mySql, 
> but
> > like a MS Access.
> > 
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > Alex - Italy
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com




From andersjm at dancontrol.dk  Mon Jun  2 04:19:34 2003
From: andersjm at dancontrol.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:19:34 +0200
Subject: Defensive programming
References: <mailman.1054494905.7743.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3edb089e$0$76130$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:
> Sure.  All dict implementations (hash tables) have O(N**2) worst-case
> behavior, over a sequence of N inserts and/or lookups, provoked by a
> sufficiently nasty set of N keys.

A hash table with balanced binary tree collision resolution has 
O(N logN) worst case.  Not that I see any way of using that for Python
dicts.

- Anders





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 13 09:37:00 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:37:00 +0100
Subject: OnFileOpent(self, event):
References: <bccbsn$hd50f$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <3EE9B807.491924C6@hotmail.com> <3EE9BF83.3421667C@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3EE9D37C.C19FA8EB@hotmail.com>

Alan:

>> This is a family newsgroup after all, isn't it? Don't we get high-school
>> kids and younger around here?

Peter:

> It was probably a high-school kid asking the question!  :-)  In any case,
> would it make you feel better to know that the vast majority of people
> who would be offended by that are the adults, 

Oh no! You're right, I've turned into a grumpy 'dult! When did that happen? :-)

> not the kids who have
> grown up hearing the phrase in every TV show and movie they've ever
> watched?  ;-)

Hopefully, here in c.l.p, we can help the youngsters to find more eloquent and
elegant ways to say and express what they're thinking :-)&

cheers,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sun Jun  8 12:24:44 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 09:24:44 -0700
Subject: solving the metaclass conflict
References: <2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7@posting.google.com> <25b5433d.0306071443.63b27df6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306080824.13c15a91@posting.google.com>

pje at telecommunity.com (Phillip J. Eby) wrote in message news:<25b5433d.0306071443.63b27df6 at posting.google.com>...
> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7 at posting.google.com>...
> > I have just posted a recipe on the online Cookbook that could be of interest
> > for metaclasses users.
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Description:
> > 
> > Any serious user of metaclasses has been bitten at least once by the 
> > infamous metaclass/metatype conflict. Here I give a general recipe 
> > to solve the problem, as well as some theory and some examples.
> > 
> >  --> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/204197
> > 

I think I have fixed the meta-metaclass conflict and the other issue with
unneeded metaclasses, without adding additional lines. Here is the last
version of my class factory:

# noconflict.py

def memoize(f):
    """This closure remembers all f invocations"""
    argskw,result = [],[]
    def _(*args,**kw): 
        akw=args,kw
        try: # returns a previously stored result
            return result[argskw.index(akw)]
        except ValueError: # there is no previously stored result
            argskw.append(akw) # update argskw
            result.append(f(*args,**kw)) # update result
            return result[-1] # return the new result
    _.argskw=argskw #makes the argskw list accessible outside
    _.result=result #makes the result list accessible outside
    return _

def clsfactory(*metas,**options):
    """Class factory avoiding metatype conflicts. The invocation syntax is
    clsfactory(M1,M2,..,priority=1)(name,bases,dic). If the base classes have 
    metaclasses conflicting within themselves or with the given metaclasses, 
    it automatically generates a compatible metaclass and instantiate it. 
    If priority is True, the given metaclasses have priority over the 
    bases' metaclasses"""

    priority=options.get('priority',False) # default, no priority
    trivial=lambda m: sum([issubclass(M,m) for M in metas],m is type) 
    # hackish!! m is trivial if it is 'type' or, in the case explicit 
    # metaclasses are given, if it is a superclass of at least one of them
    
    def generatemetaclass(bases,metas,priority):
        metabases=tuple([mb for mb in map(type,bases) if not trivial(mb)])
        metabases=(metabases+metas, metas+metabases)[priority]
        metaname="_"+''.join([m.__name__ for m in metabases])
        if not metabases: # trivial metabase
            return type 
        elif len(metabases)==1: # single metabase
            return metabases[0]
        else: # multiple metabases
            return clsfactory()(metaname,metabases,{})
    generatemetaclass=memoize(generatemetaclass) 

    return lambda n,b,d: generatemetaclass(b,metas,priority)(n,b,d)

Notice that I am not going to change the Cookbook recipe yet, since I haven't
tested very well this new version. However, it seems to be working better
than the previous one:

# solving the meta-metaclass conflict
class MM1(type): pass
class MM2(type): pass
class M1(type):
    __metaclass__=MM1
class M2(type): 
    __metaclass__=MM2
class A: __metaclass__=M1
class B: __metaclass__=M2
class C(A,B):
    __metaclass__=clsfactory()
print C,type(C),type(type(C))
#=> <class '__main__.C'> <class '__main__._M1M2'> <class '__main__._MM1MM2'>

# skipping unneeded metaclasses
class M(type): pass
class M1(M): pass

class B: __metaclass__=M
class C(B): 
    __metaclass__=clsfactory(M1)

print C,type(C),type(type(C))
#=> <class '__main__.C'> <class '__main__.M1'> <type 'type'>

If somebody found a case where the new version fails due to some
bug (which is quite possible ;-), please let me know.

Notice that (on purpose) I am not checking against David's example

    class A(type): pass
    class B(A): pass
    class C(type): pass
    M = _generatemetaclass((),(B,A,C),0)
    print M     #-> <class 'noconflict._BAC'>

since in my view only bases classes should be checked. In other words,
I am assuming the user is not perverse and s/he is passing non mutually
redundant metaclasses (whereas the metaclasses corresponding to the base
classes can be redundant). I could improve this later.

 
                                                 Michele



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Thu Jun 19 03:02:11 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:02:11 -0700
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
References: <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6@posting.google.com> <eppstein-0047EB.09403118062003@news.service.uci.edu> <3EF0AAFB.DDA5F555@engcorp.com> <eppstein-1DFD94.11562718062003@news.service.uci.edu> <3v3Ia.109349$pR3.2389728@news1.tin.it> <bcrl56$98p$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <eppstein-E77CE1.00021119062003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <bcrl56$98p$1 at news.hccnet.nl>,
 anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote:

> Nice idea, there seems to be no problem with L an empty list, but
> there would be a problem with L a tuple. However that can be
> corrected:
> 
>    [x for x,y in zip(L,L[1:]+L[:-1]) if x!=y] or list(L[:1])

Still buggy, it drops the last item whenever it's equal to the first and 
the list has two unequal items.

>>> L=[3,1,4,1,5,9,3]
>>> [x for x,y in zip(L,L[1:]+L[:-1]) if x!=y] or list(L[:1])
[3, 1, 4, 1, 5, 9]

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From belred1 at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 24 22:34:03 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 02:34:03 GMT
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com> <bct498$mnjrt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <8da5fvsnidpjtblgfj4484spso2t9e6r95@4ax.com> <bcuqp3$nl9um$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <rt97fv80g2dguti1okoevk3kmvo6oh14vt@4ax.com> <bd17hu$niu1d$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <u7lcfv85lvutqg8tspgua4qc0454gsd2ie@4ax.com> <bd8gsc$pt2lr$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <3ef80342$0$13176$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <bd93ji$qieli$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <3ef816ff$0$13210$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <vS7Ka.12332$XG4.10593@rwcrnsc53>

> totally skipping the word count should speed it up - and i believe that
> the approach of dict_words[this_word]=dict_words.get(this_word,0) btw.
> is a bit faster than doing has_key() or the least of doing:
>
>     if this_word not in dict_words.keys() :
>
> which aught to be extremely slow on a large dictionary (creating and
> dropping lists of thousands + doing a O(n) search over it). And that may
> very well be the culprit of the slow run you see....
>
> >
> >       else :
> >
> >             dict_words[ this_word ] += 1
> >
>
>


this is how i check if a key is in a dictionary:

if this_word not in dict_words:

i believe this doesn't do an O(n) search over it.  it's supposed to constant
time for every lookup by way of a hash lookup.

bryan





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Jun  7 07:29:28 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 12:29:28 +0100
Subject: finding origin of names
Message-ID: <gozptIAYyc4+EwH6@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Is it possible to determine where a particular name is defined?

As an example

#a.py
v=1

#b.py
from a import v


>>> import a, b
>>> a.v is b.v
1
>>> dir(a)
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'v']
>>> dir(b)
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'v']
>>>

do I have to inspect the code to determine that module a defines v? 
-- 
Robin Becker



From pythonidae_olivaceous at hotmail.comREMOVE  Sun Jun  8 22:04:36 2003
From: pythonidae_olivaceous at hotmail.comREMOVE (Ben Minton)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 02:04:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Simple Script to Combine/Seperate Lines of Text
Message-ID: <Xns939576449400Bpythonidaeunderscore@203.220.9.230>

Hi All

Was wondering how to write a simple script that performs the following 
task:

--------------------------------------------------

airncjrlfojqmxirnxplvmndrhqndj ... e (length n) combined with

qpmgktincirzpwncjftewnchdtecru ... f (length n) equals

motnciqaxhfyeklpgmchqicngiehfc ... a (length n)


and then 

motnciqaxhfyeklpgmchqicngiehfc ... a (length n) subtract

qpmgktincirzpwncjftewnchdtecru ... f (length n) equals

airncjrlfojqmxirnxplvmndrhqndj ... e (length n)

--------------------------------------------------
uses plain text alphabetic characters only, where initial string of 
characters is any integer n, upto 1000.

I can write this in a flow diagram but don't understand strings enough to 
do this.

Thanks, Ben, Australia



From gmduncan at netspace.net.au  Thu Jun 19 06:01:39 2003
From: gmduncan at netspace.net.au (Gary Duncan)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:01:39 +1000
Subject: Alternatives to Python ?
Message-ID: <3EF18A03.3050706@netspace.net.au>

There's been occasional not-unfavourable comments in this news-group
about the pros-and-cons of other so-called "high-level-languages" like
Ruby, and Haskell , and others too.

I can't afford to buy more than one such book from the list of HLLs;
so what would you suggest ?


- Gary  (currently reading "Don Qixote - for Dummies" - hilarious )




From gus.tabares at verizon.net  Mon Jun 16 19:29:48 2003
From: gus.tabares at verizon.net (Gus Tabares)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:29:48 -0400
Subject: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions? (os.chmod() not working properly?)
In-Reply-To: <5ab0af73.0306161517.43dbb96b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LFEJJJNJEBIGPEPEPLIPOEHNCAAA.gus.tabares@verizon.net>

Matt,

	I do believe os.O_RDWR is specifically for the open() function. Check out
the bottom of this page:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-fd-ops.html



HTH,
Gus

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Matt Shomphe
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 7:18 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions? (os.chmod()
not working properly?)


I noticed an error when trying to change the file permissions for a
file on a Windows (2K) machine.  I'm using David Beazley's excellent
"Python Essential Reference, 2nd. Ed." as a reference.  According to
the book (p. 186 for those following along at home), it should be used
thusly:

import os
os.chmod('myReadOnlyFile.txt', os.O_RDWR)


Where for os.O_RDWR, you could have any of the modes specified on p.
184.  In other words, all the same bitwise-or modes for opening a
file.  What happens with the above code is: nothing at all.  However,
the following code *will* work to change a file to be accessible:

import os
os.chmod('myReadOnlyFile.txt', 33206)

So, either I am using the os.chmod() function incorrectly, or there is
something wrong elsewhere.

Any hints on what's to be done?

M@
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun 11 14:06:56 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:06:56 -0600
Subject: Newbie: changing an attribute of objects in a list
In-Reply-To: <bc7gcd$ncf$1@main.gmane.org>; from bsimuyandi@africonnect.com on Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 04:06:01PM +0100
References: <bc72gq$cv3$1@main.gmane.org> <bc7gcd$ncf$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20030611120656.F1157@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ben Simuyandi:
> OK, I've read a bit and I've now changed the code. If anyone would like to
> give feedback (better ways of doing it, where am I going wrong) that would
> be appreciated:
  [...]

It would be nice to see an example list of objects and the desired
result for that list.

Without that, here's one possible, simple-minded and completely
untested notion:

    # separate items into groups by x.order
    d = {}
    for x in items:
        d.setdefault(x.order, []).append(x)

    # resolve conflicts
    orders = d.keys()
    orders.sort()
    for order in orders:
        # sort descending by age
        assert len(d[order]) > 0
        decorated = [(x.age, -i, x) for x in enumerate(d[order])]
        decorated.sort()
        decorated.reverse()
        sorted = [x for _, _, x in decorated]
        del decorated

        # Replace the list d[order] with its oldest element.
        # Put the remaining elements, in reverse order of age, into
        # d[order+1], d[order+2], etc.
        # If one of those is found already to have elements,
        # just dump all the remaining elements in that list; the
        # loop over the orders will then pick up at that point.

        # (Note how this makes it okay to be mutating the dict and
        # iterating over an independent list of the original keys.)

        del d[order]
        for i, x in enumerate(sorted):
            if order+i not in d:
                d[order+i] = x
            else:
                d[order+i].extend(sorted[i:])
                break

    # assign .order attributes
    for order, x in d.iteritems():
        x.order = order

This uses enumerate(), a new built-in in Python 2.3; in 2.2 you
can write it yourself, like this:

    from __future__ import generators

    def enumerate(items):
        i = 0
        for x in items:
            yield i, x
            i = i + 1

-- 
Steven Taschuk                staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I tried to be pleasant and accommodating, but my head
 began to hurt from his banality."   -- _Seven_ (1996)




From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Jun 17 12:52:24 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:52:24 -0700
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <4017400e.0306162016.b0f8c6c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <donn-9D8F0B.09522417062003@nntp2.u.washington.edu>

In article <4017400e.0306162016.b0f8c6c at posting.google.com>,
 marshall at spamhole.com (marshall) wrote:
...
> Most of the code I come across in strong typed languages makes heavy
> use of type coercion.  So how does typing help if you are just going
> to coerce everything?

It's unfortunate, but then most of the code in existence today
was written for languages that are pretty old now and aren't
necessarily the best example of anything.  You're right about
coercion, in my opinion but also in the opinion of people who
have created some more rigorous static typing languages.

Of the ones I know about, Haskell and Objective CAML are the
most interesting.  Haskell being the more interesting language
and ocaml the more interesting compiler (cf. F# if you're a .NET
fan.)  Haskell is maybe too interesting, it even types the
execution model if that makes sense (and won't right away.)

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Thu Jun  5 12:42:07 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:42:07 -0500 
Subject: Sort()
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304FC48C0@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Turhan Ozen [mailto:txo at cs.nott.ac.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:32 AM
> 
> I created a class and modified the default _comp_  function.  
> I can sort an array of instances of this class. But I don't
> want to change the original array. Instead, I want to keep
> the positions after sorting in an attribute of the instances.
> 
> Instead of [a1,a2,a3] becoming [a2,a1,a3], I would like the 
> order remain same but
> 
> a1.rank=2
> a2.rank=1
> a3.rank=3
> 
> How can I do this? Does this functionality already exist? If 
> not could you please give me advice on how to implement it?
> I have read the HOWTO on sorting, there is an example of sorting
> classes there. Is there any other place where I can find more
> examples of using Python functions?
> 
> Thanks,
> Turhan.
>

Hmmm... you could simulate it with:

## First we have...
L = [ ... original list ... ]

## Now, we create a sorted version of the list:
SL = L[:]
SL.sort()

## We now create a dictionary keyed by item, relating to it's index:
D = dict( zip(SL, range(len(SL))) )

## And now, we transfer the index position as an attribute to
## the items on the original list:
for item in L:
   item.rank = D[item]



HTH!

-gca
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Jun 26 13:27:23 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:27:23 -0400
Subject: Standard ways to get union, intersection, difference of lists?
In-Reply-To: <m2ptl0sqzm.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <mailman.1056620804.9083.python-list@python.org>	<sPBKa.323303$3n5.24366@news2.central.cox.net> <m2ptl0sqzm.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <3EFB2CFB.5060505@rogers.com>

I've back-ported sets to 2.2.2.  It was a matter of implementing a few 
functions from itertools (which is a Python module IIRC).  Here's the 
majority of the backporting code:

### Backport to 2.2 by Mike Fletcher
from __future__ import generators
def ifilter(predicate, iterable):
    if predicate is None:
        def predicate(x):
            return x
    for x in iterable:
        if predicate(x):
            yield x
def ifilterfalse(predicate, iterable):
    if predicate is None:
        def predicate(x):
            return x
    for x in iterable:
        if not predicate(x):
            yield x
### End backport

There's some more for getting the tests to run under 2.2.2, but that's 
not actually necessary to use the module.

Enjoy,
Mike

John Hunter wrote:

>>>>>>"Steve" == Steve Holden <sholden at holdenweb.com> writes:
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>
>    Steve> Not necessarily: I believe you can just pick up the sets
>    Steve> module from CVS and run it under 2.2+.
>
>I just tried import sets from the 2.3b1 distribution under python 2.2,
>but it failed with an ImportError trying to load itertools.  I believe
>itertools is a C module, so perhaps it is not so straightforward to
>use sets from 2.2?
>
>John Hunter
>  
>

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From p-abel at t-online.de  Thu Jun 26 17:52:50 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 26 Jun 2003 14:52:50 -0700
Subject: Reading a binary file
References: <mailman.1056614502.25759.python-list@python.org> <3EFAF999.2F77CACF@engcorp.com> <mailman.1056637113.19927.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0306261352.1e1ab44d@posting.google.com>

Sorin Marti <mas at semafor.ch> wrote in message news:<mailman.1056637113.19927.python-list at python.org>...
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Sorin Marti wrote:
> > 
> >>I am quite new to python and very new to this list.
> >>
> >>I've got following problem. I have a binary file which contains
> >>information I should read. I can open the file with
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> > It would really be best if you could describe in more detail
> > what you are trying to do with this data.  Bytes are bytes,
> > and things like hex and binary are just different _representations_
> > of bytes, so whether you want binary, hex, decimal, or something
> > else depends entirely on the use to which you will put the info.
> > 
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
> Ok I'll try to give more details. I have a Siemens SPS. With an SPS you 
> can controll machines such as pumps or motors or anything else. To 
> controll you have to set Variables. If you want to see which state these 
> variables have you can get a file via ftp where these values are stored. 
> This is what I have done. Now I have a file (called cpu1db2.dat) and 
> this file has a length of 16 bytes.
> 
> Byte Number/Length   Type       Hex-Value
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Byte              1: Boolean:   01    (which is true, 00 would be false)
> Byte              2: Byte:      11   (This data type is called byte)
> Byte              3: Char:      50    (Which should be a "P")
> Byte            4,5: Word       00 00
> Byte            6,7: Integer    22 04
> Byte      8,9,10,11: DoubleWord D2 00 00 BB
> Byte 12,13,14,15,16: Real       BB 42 C8 00 00
> 
> 

As some others described the struct module should do the right work:
>>> import struct
### This should be your data to read from a file into a string x.
>>> x='\x01\x11P\x00\x00\x22\x04\xd2\x00\x00\xbb\xbb\x42\xc8\x00\x00'
### The format to decode your data except the Real.
### The **>** is necessary because your data come little-endian.
>>> decode_fmt='>BBcHHI'
>>> (Boolean,Byte,Char,Word,Integer,DoubleWord)=struct.unpack(decode_fmt,x[:-5])
>>> format="""
...           Boolean   : %02X
...           Byte      : %02X
...           Char      : %s
...           Word      : %04X
...           Integer   : %04X
...           DoubleWord: %04X"""
>>> print format%(Boolean,Byte,Char,Word,Integer,DoubleWord)

          Boolean   : 01
          Byte      : 11
          Char      : P
          Word      : 0000
          Integer   : 2204
          DoubleWord: D20000BB

> So I have written a python class which makes a connection to the 
> ftp-server (on the SPS) and gets the file.
> Then there is a function where you can call a value with a startbyte and 
> an endbyte. You also have to specify the type. That means you can call
> getValue('REAL',12,16) and you should get back 100 because if you have 

I guess your Real is a 4-Byte Realvalue and you meant: '42 C8 00 00'
what is the value of your binary representation.

> the binary value of 'BB 42 C8 00 00' is 01000010110010000000000000000000 
> , first digit is the Sign (which is + or - ), next 8 digits are the 
> exponent, in this case 10000101 = 133dec. Now you take away 127 from 133 
> then you get six, thats the exponent. The rest 
> (110010000000000000000000) has a hex value of C80000 this is 13107200 
> decimal. Now you have to multiply 13107200 with 2^6 and 2^-23 and you 
> get (tataaaaaa!): 100!
> 
I'm not quite sure if I understand the format your're describing above.
I dealed some time ago with IEEE and some AMD FPU-Format but you seem
to me to describe a format where the exponent goes over Bytelimits.

A function could be somewhat as the following:
>>> def str2real(s):
... 	sign     = ord(s[0])&0x80 and -1 or 1
... 	expo     = ((ord(s[0])&0x7f)<<1) + (ord(s[1])>>7) - 127 
... 	mantissa = ((ord(s[1])<<16)|0x80) + (ord(s[2])<<8) + ord(s[3])
... 	print 'sign=%d, expo=%d, mantissa=%06X'%(sign,expo,mantissa)
... 	return sign*2**(expo-23)*mantissa
... 
>>> str2real(x[-4:])
sign=1, expo=6, mantissa=C80080
100.0009765625

Thoug I'm not sure if I hit the goal, cause normally the exponent is
in 6 or 7 or 8 Bits 2's complement and then there would be a - 64 or
- 128 or - 256 instead of - 127 in the algo. Also a 23 Bit mantissa
seems a bit strange to me. Even if so the 24rth Bit is **1**
by default, why I put **|0x80**.
With an excact description of your Real-Format the solution would
be a "Klacks".
 
> The different data types need different calculations, that's why I asked 
> a few things about changing the representation because I only can do 
> some things in binary mode or hex mode.
> 
> Cheers
>     Sorin Marti

Regards Peter



From tertiusc at netscape.net  Wed Jun 11 18:53:13 2003
From: tertiusc at netscape.net (Tertius)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:53:13 +0200
Subject: Jython anyone?
References: <f0a79190.0306111106.4cae235@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE7B2D9.6030603@netscape.net>

If you're serious about Python and serious about Java... you should be 
serious about Jython. All the info I needed, I found on Jython.org
The rest I found on python.org

HTH
Tertius

anthony wrote:
> Does anyone have strong feelings one way or another regarding Jython? 
> I just started playing around with it, but the limited online
> discussions and the sort have me wondering if it's worthwhile.  Any
> thoughts?
> 
> Anthony




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Jun 26 09:23:18 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:23:18 +0200
Subject: filedescriptor out of range in select()
References: <bde89s$ef4$1@main.gmane.org> <mailman.1056616363.2840.python-list@python.org> <3EFABC5E.329613C6@alcyone.com> <bdelmg$cb7$1@main.gmane.org> <bdeop0$qah$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <bdes3p$d6o$1@main.gmane.org>

Paolo Invernizzi wrote:

>
> > the number of files supported by an actual system doesn't necessarily
> > have to match the value of a include-file constant on the build machine...
>
> Umm...
>
> Python was installed via FreeBSD port system, so was built on this
> machine...

but that doesn't necessarily mean that the #define in an include file
somewhere automagically picks up the kernel configuration, does it?

(a quick googling brings up some posts about FreeBSD machines with
FD_SETSIZE=256 and maxuserfiles>1024 etc.  dunno if they've made
their configuration tools smarter, but in any case, "poll" is the "right
way" to deal with large number of file handles (compared to "select",
at least -- there are better but platform-specific ways to do things
if you want to...))

</F>







From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Jun  5 12:49:57 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 18:49:57 +0200
Subject: Characters in Python
References: <aaf09156.0306050423.21b45f6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m38ysgo4ei.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

jansun at home.se (Jan Sundstr?m) writes:

> And how can one easily change what Python considers to be
> default character encoding? 

There is, but I don't recommend using it.

> I couldn't find anything about that in the tutorial.

You'll find the easy way in the FAQ. However, Python 2.3 will solve
this problem in a better way.

Regards,
Martin




From terry at wayforward.net  Fri Jun  6 18:22:27 2003
From: terry at wayforward.net (Terence Way)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 18:22:27 -0400
Subject: Add methods to a class dynamically
References: <64fb4467.0306060628.2c51bf09@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbr43t$ffs$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>

On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:28:54 -0400, Hoang Do wrote:

I think it works :-) replace print %s with print '%s'
the global name 'a' it's looking for is the a in 'print a'

Cheers!
> I am having trouble invoking the created method.  The function addition
> goes fine but invoking it gives an error.  Here is some simple code:



From drmental at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 20 18:17:59 2003
From: drmental at yahoo.com (Thunder Perfect Mind)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 15:17:59 -0700
Subject: Problems retreiving double from database
Message-ID: <d2ef95ea.0306201417.77b78db7@posting.google.com>

I'm using an Access database where some fields are doubles.  I'm using
ADO to access this and when I try to retrieve the value in the field
it returns the wrong value, instead of say 12.432 which might be the
value of the field it returns 12.43200000000000003.  Thinking this
might be a problem with ADO I tried to use ODBC with the same
result..... hmmmm maybe the database is the problem so I downloaded
MySQL and connected with ODBC.... again same problem.

Anyone know what causes this? and if so how do I fix it?

Any help appreciated,

dr//\//\



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jun  7 20:57:55 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 20:57:55 -0400
Subject: Excuting scripts question
References: <bbtq4o$d718f$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE26F88.C86E88BB@alcyone.com> <bbu0bo$df2cq$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EE28A13.65FD29DD@engcorp.com>

Ken wrote:
> 
> > > Hi, I have a few scripts that ran well in Unix environment with:
> > > #!/usr/local/bin/python
> > >
> > > What do I need to change to if I relocate these scripts on a Windows
> > > environment? I have installed Python 2.2.3 in C:\Python22 directory.
> >
> Hi, I tried to run the script on IE (eg: http://192.168.0.2/test1.cgi) but
> it doesn't seem to load. (The script seems to load forever... but ordinary
> html files work)

And 192.168.0.2 is your own machine?  Do you have a web server 
running on it?  IE does not actually execute CGI or Python or
anything except *client-side* Javascript and Java.  If you want
to execute CGI, you have to have a web server running, and the
web server itself executes the CGI and returns its results to
IE in the form of HTML.

IE can handle HTML that is loaded from the local filesystem, but
consider this to be a special feature, not something that means
you can treat your hard drive exactly as you treat a web server.

If you want to learn more, try looking at CGIHTTPServer in the 
standard library, or look into setting up another web server 
locally, perhaps ... Twisted.  :-)

-Peter



From mwh at python.net  Thu Jun 12 08:55:28 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:55:28 GMT
Subject: Rudeness with names (was Re: interpreted)
References: <3EE5BF67.2040201@ghaering.de> <bc5a3j+j683@eGroups.com> <mailman.1055279061.23255.python-list@python.org> <slrnbeem1a.sdq.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net>
Message-ID: <7h3d6hjmpbw.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Andrew Walkingshaw <andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk> writes:

> In any case, isn't the list archived on python.org and (furthermore)
> replicated to a whole bundle of news servers approximately everywhere?
> This is the first I've heard of Yahoo being involved - is the list
> gatewayed to Yahoo Groups too?

Yes, I believe so, but I find the web incarnation of Yahoo! Groups to
be impossible to use.

You know Yahoo! Groups used to be eGroups?  You know who was the
brains behind eGroups (and medusa and asyncore and calldll...)?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  US elections
  For those of you fearing that the rest of the world might be 
  making fun of the US because of this: Rest assured, we are.
         -- http://www.advogato.org/person/jameson/diary.html?start=12



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jun 19 21:16:59 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 02:16:59 +0100
Subject: include files?
References: <3ef1c90f$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <87smq5h7jo.fsf@pobox.com>

"rgndrp" <erased*remove_this*@xs4all.nl> writes:

> hi all,
> 
> I use python for making cgi scripts on a iis/w2k
> box and i wanted to know if it is it possible to include files in
> python?
> like: <!--#include file="file.inc"-->
> or something :)

No, that's physically impossible in Python.  The laws of nature
dictate that using a generic macro processor like m4 on Python code is
forbidden.  Sorry.

More seriously:

http://www.google.com/search?q=SSI+IIS

But maybe that's not what you mean, who knows...


John



From grante at visi.com  Fri Jun  6 10:50:05 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 14:50:05 GMT
Subject: Including binary files in a .py file; advice needed
References: <3EDEB0A6.202@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <3ee0aa1d$0$640$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <3EDEB0A6.202 at netspace.net.au>, Gary Duncan wrote:

> Here's what I want to do; distribute a .py file (a GUI app) with
> an embedded (binary) .GIF file (a photo of me at 1 yo ;) rather than
> distribute both separately. For convenience, mainly.

Here's how I did it:

LogoString = """R0lGODdhtQByAPcAAAAAAA4DBA4NCxsGBxwaFSkJCyonIDYMDjgqIzg0KkQOEkQZGUY3LkZB
NVERFVREOFROP18UGWE9NWJbSmwXHW0rK242Mm9KQG9UR3FpVXoaIH92X4cdJIgxMok7OYlG
QI2DapUgJ5UqLpdIQ5uQdKIjK6MtMqM3OaRBQKZqXKd0Y6d+aqiTeKmdf7AlLrJOSraggreq
ib0oMr9RTsKEccSjhsW3lMsrNcs1PM1UUc5oX9CHdNCRe9GbgtGlidKwkNK6l9PEntguOdk4
QNlCR9pNTtpXVdthXNtrY9x1at2Acd6Uf96eht+ojeC9m+DHouHRqQLzAAD/AAC/ANgkqP30
[...]
2FU4hRenxTmuXK4nJOn0AsBgy54dea/+717PvABAFYSh97yhWs+4xD8y944vHyQNqIzyn0/9
6lv/+hEPCAA7
"""

LogoImage = PhotoImage(data=LogoString)

> If in a Unix shell script, I'd uuencode the .GIF and include the 
> printable-ASCII file in it as a 'here' file. When executed the script
> would 'cat' it out to e.g. a /tmp file from the main body of the script, 
> then uudecode the /tmp file to revert to the original .GIF file.

Sounds complicated with temp file and all.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  A GRAM?? A BRAM... A
                                  at               GROOM... A BROOM... Oh,
                               visi.com            Yeh!! Wash the ROOM!!



From exarkun at intarweb.us  Thu Jun  5 16:49:38 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:49:38 -0400
Subject: Loop over list of pairs
In-Reply-To: <bbnjsu$bb260$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
References: <bbnjsu$bb260$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20030605204938.GA16141@meson.dyndns.org>

On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 04:25:29PM +0200, Thomas G?ttler wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> What is the prefered way of loop over
> a list like this?
>  mylist=[1, "one", 2, "two", 3, "three"]

  From your subject, I'm guessing you want a loop with two variables which
take on the values (1, "one"), then (2, "two"), and finally (3, "three").

  If this is the case, this works:

    i = iter(mylist)
    for (a, b) in zip(i, i):
        ...

  Jp
    
-- 
"Minerals are inexhaustible and will never be depleted. A stream of
investment creates additions to proved reserves, a very large in-ground
inventory, constantly renewed as it is extracted... How much was in the
ground at the start and how much will be left at the end are unknown and
irrelevant."  -- Morry Adelman, World Renowned Economist




From jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Jun 21 15:02:31 2003
From: jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk (Jeremy Yallop)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 19:02:31 GMT
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com> <mailman.1055919632.16586.python-list@python.org> <rfVHa.105923$pR3.2320136@news1.tin.it> <yfs65n39z72.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <just-0D60BB.18081218062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <yfsof0v880w.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <mailman.1055967874.8212.python-list@python.org> <yfsfzm781sx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <bd2a47$obt48$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
>> I don't think it would normally be used that way.  Instead, consider you
>> have a preexisting dictionary and want a copy:
>> 
>>     >>> d1 = {'foo':1, 'bar':'sean'}
>>     >>> d2 = dict(**d1)
>>     >>> d2 == d1
>>     True
>> 
>> That's a one-liner where the equivalent
>> 
>>     d2 = {}
>>     d2.update(d1)
>> 
>> is a two-liner and likely slower.
> 
> Uhm,
> 
>      d2 = d1.copy() ?

  d2 = dict(d1)

Jeremy.



From joch at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Jun  2 15:55:31 2003
From: joch at blueyonder.co.uk (John Ochiltree)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 20:55:31 +0100
Subject: Python get's a mention on University Challenge
In-Reply-To: <3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <VYNCa.66$5L6.15@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Irmen de Jong wrote:

> John Ochiltree wrote:
> 
>> Hi all, thought you may like to know that the UK TV programme 
>> 'University Challenge' of 2nd June has just had 'The Python 
>> Programming Language' as the answer to a question in a round about 
>> programming languages (the other languages were Pascal and Eiffel).
> 
> 
> What was the question?
> 
> --Irmen
> 

"What object oriented scripting language was created by Guido Van Rossum 
at Stichting Mathematisch Centrum?" I think that's right, or more or less.

John




From http  Mon Jun  2 04:17:16 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Jun 2003 01:17:16 -0700
Subject: Defensive programming
References: <hIqp1WAG0c2+Ew1+@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.1054463105.27128.python-list@python.org> <7xptlxq2yz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <t6l2+kKkXs2L092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1054522804.32035.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xel2csxkj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> writes:
> Well... for Python, I'd rather have a hash with excellent typical case
> performance than a typically slower one with more collision resistance.

I haven't seen any evidence that adding some countermeasure to the
attack would make any significant slowdown.  Until there's some
evidence I'm not willing to go along with assumptions that there will
be a slowdown.

> If my normal, non-DoS programs run a bit faster, that's something I
> experience every day... 

If you want your programs to run as fast as they can, then you're
using the wrong language.  And there are lots of other ways to speed
up Python.  For example, fixing the hash function is meeting
resistance because the interpreter does so many hash lookups.  But the
interpreter really doesn't need to do so many lookups, and the amount
of lookups is part of why Python programs are so slow.  Better to fix
the interpreter than to worry about shaving another nanosecond out of
a hash lookup.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jun 29 21:10:11 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Jun 2003 21:10:11 -0400
Subject: (x)range( 40000000000, 40000000001 )
References: <3eff347f$1@buckaroo.cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <bdo2lj$kcv$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3eff347f$1 at buckaroo.cs.rit.edu>,
Chris Connett  <kill_cxc_spam_0117 at cs.rit.edu> wrote:
>
>It seems range and xrange don't like longs that can't be sqeezed into ints:
>
>With Python 2.3b1+:
>
> >>> xrange( 40000000000, 40000000001 )
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
> >>> range( 40000000000, 40000000001 )
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
> >>>

The first problem is that range is designed to create a list and the
canonical usage for range is range(N); lists cannot currently have more
than int elements.  xrange() could get away with fixing it, but Guido has
decreed that xrange() is a target for deprecation (and will go away in
Python 3.0), so he won't allow any improvements to xrange() in order to
encourage people to use alternatives.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Jun  9 22:33:24 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:33:24 +1200
Subject: Editing a Binary File.
In-Reply-To: <924a9f9c.0306090603.5162d697@posting.google.com>
References: <924a9f9c.0306082237.222a46cf@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055141177.5862.python-list@python.org> <924a9f9c.0306090603.5162d697@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bc3enq$es439$3@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Paradox wrote:
> I just didn't even read the r capabilities cause I thought they were
> for readonly access.

Yes, the meanings of the + modes are somewhat unintuitive.
'Twould have been better if the mode letters had been
designed to be more orthogonal, but we're stuck with
them for Historical Reasons. :-(

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From bobsmith327 at hotmail.com  Sat Jun  7 18:50:18 2003
From: bobsmith327 at hotmail.com (Bob Smith)
Date: 7 Jun 2003 15:50:18 -0700
Subject: Tkinter: Do you really need a "root"?
Message-ID: <c281f461.0306071450.553776ea@posting.google.com>

Hi.  I'm just starting to learn to use the Tkinter module for creating
GUIs.  I'm using a tutorial that gives a basic starting program of:

from Tkinter import *
root = Tk()
app = Frame(root)
root.mainloop()

But do I really need root?  It seems like the program could simply be:

from Tkinter import *
app = Frame()
app.mainloop()

This second program works just as well as the first and seems more
intuitive to me.  I'm creating an application that is a Frame and I
start the application by invoking the application's mainloop() method.

The first example seems more obtuse.  root seems unnecessary and
invoking root's mainloop() instead of app's seems odd to me too (if I
want to start app, I should invoke a method of app).

So, what's wrong with the second version?  Will I run into problems
later when I add more widgets and get into more complex GUIs?

Thanks,
Bob



From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 19 11:29:02 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 15:29:02 GMT
Subject: sum(strings)
References: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr>
Message-ID: <bcskru$him$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

"Steve McAllister" <nosp at m.needed> wrote in message
news:bcsjii$3vf$1 at alto.univ-mlv.fr...
> Why does sum reject strings?  Is it a matter of efficiency of the
> underlying implementation?
>

http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2003-04-16_2003-04-30.html
"""
Originally Alex [Martelli, who implemented sum(),] also wanted to
special-case the handling of a list of strings so as to prevent having to
tell new Python programmers that "".join(list_of_strings) is the best way to
concatenate a bunch of strings and that looping over them is really bad (the
amount of I/O done in the loop kills performance). But this special-casing
was shot down because it seemed rather magical and can still be taught to
beginners easily enough ('reduce' tends to require an understanding of
functional programming).
"""
Also see:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-April/034854.html
and other related python-dev discussions






From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun  4 10:03:29 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:03:29 -0500
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
In-Reply-To: <rRfDa.35826$DV.62325@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
        <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com>
        <PNdDa.824522$OV.780836@rwcrnsc54>
        <bbjpt9$p0q$1@panix3.panix.com>
        <1ieDa.35049$DV.60225@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
        <mailman.1054700708.6942.python-list@python.org>
        <rRfDa.35826$DV.62325@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <16093.64561.953770.980195@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    bryan> thanks skip... now i can see the elegance of this solution.
    bryan> wouldn't this also solve the pre/post conditions that are
    bryan> currently put in comments with another current solution?  

That was the general idea. ;-)

    bryan> but, how would you handle pre/post conditions that are only
    bryan> supposed to be used in a debug version?

Like I said, it was probably full of holes.

Skip




From rmunn at pobox.com  Fri Jun  6 15:03:47 2003
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 19:03:47 GMT
Subject: Updating SQL table problems with python
References: <3eddac41$0$31519$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au> <bbn8ik$bdu9q$1@fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbe1pd5.dc.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>

kuntzagk at sulawesi.bioinf.mdc-berlin.de wrote:
> 
>> As you can tell, im parsing a xml RSS feed and updating items table. Im
>> trying to replace
>> default value of 'Title' with the title from the RSS feed.
>> The update statement is givng me the syntax error
>> I cant see whats wrong
> 
> Did you get a python syntax error or a SQL syntax error?
> If the latter, check if your title contains a quote charakter. 
> Got bitten by this myself.

I also notice that your SQL statment contains single-quotes. In many
databases, that's fine, you can use single- or double-quotes around a
string, no problem. If your database system happens to be picky about
which style of quote chars you use, that might be it.

Note that I have no idea what database system you're using, so I may
very well be talking through my hat here. But it's something to try, at
least.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838



From nav at adams.patriot.net  Mon Jun 30 08:02:29 2003
From: nav at adams.patriot.net (Nick Vargish)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 08:02:29 -0400
Subject: SOAP  client
References: <PAVKa.126576$lK4.3527903@twister1.libero.it> <yyybrwj8lpq.fsf@adams.patriot.net> <bdl3da$56v$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <yyyy8zj7oyy.fsf@adams.patriot.net>

ddoc <news at 92tr.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> Doesn't work for me.
> Hmm.

I haven't run it in a while... that server might just have been
a transient. I meant the example more for purposes of illustration,
anyway. :^)

Nick

-- 
# sigmask.py  ||  version 0.2  ||  2003-01-07  ||  Feed this to your Python.
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAqbusjpu/ofu?','')




From wavegroom at gmx.net  Mon Jun  2 12:24:06 2003
From: wavegroom at gmx.net (wavegroom)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 18:24:06 +0200
Subject: python2.0, _socket module, builtin, compile
Message-ID: <wavegroom-F3FB82.18240602062003@newsspool.solnet.ch>

hi 

First my config:
Athlon 1.8 GHZ
latest gentoo-linux and w2k
python2.2 and python 2.0.1

I have a problem with python 2.0. I use Blender (2.25) wich has a built 
in python engine (python2.0).
I tried to import the socket module, but I get the error message module 
_socket not found. I added a python 2.0.1 installation for blender, so 
that I have all modules.

Its so that blender python doesn't have all builtin modules. On windows 
it works because the built in modules are not static linked to 
python.exe. On linux the _socket module ins integrated in the python-bin.

How can I compile python 2.0.1 under linux, so that i get the built in 
functions as non static modules, so that i can load _socket.so at 
runtime. (like in python2.2)

I tried a bit to modify some config files from the source, but nothing 
worked :-(

any help would be very welcome :-)))



From djc at object-craft.com.au  Wed Jun 18 06:44:27 2003
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 20:44:27 +1000
Subject: ANNOUNCE: JOTWeb 1.11, preview of new web application system.
References: <20030617162210.GB5896@tummy.com> <1055884182.1169.11.camel@emilio> <mailman.1055919212.4742.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3he6nbr78.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

> I didn't like that, at least as far as the documentation indicates
> to me, Albatross web pages have this context that has to be set up
> and maintained for each of the pages.  There's a fairly similar set
> of 10 lines of code that need to be set up for each page that you
> want to be dynamic.
> 
> For example, in JOTWeb to display a page with the current time in
> it, you would have a "code.py" file that contains:
> 
>    def currenttime():
>       import time
>       return(time.strftime('%H:%M:%S'))
> 
> And call that from an HTML file using:
> 
>    The current time is: <span tal:replace="code/currenttime"></span>
> 
> As a comparison, it seems to be that this code in Albatross would be
> a python module containing:
> 
>    #!/usr/bin/python
>    import os
>    from albatross import SimpleContext
> 
>    ctx = SimpleContext('.')
>    templ = ctx.load_template('time.html')
> 
>    import time
>    ctx.locals.currenttime = time.strftime('%H:%M:%S')
> 
>    templ.to_html(ctx)
> 
>    print 'Content-Type: text/html'
>    print
>    ctx.flush_content()
> 
> Then the HTML of:
> 
>    The current time is: <al-value expr="currentime">
> 
> It just seems like you have to cut and paste a lot of code in
> Albatross for every page you want to display.  But it's not just cut
> and paste, because you have to customize some parts of it (while
> leaving other parts alone).  JOTWeb tends to do a lot of that sort
> of stuff for you behind the scenes so that you don't have to think
> about them.

Or you could use one of the application classes to reduce the code
needed for each page.  Assuming you have more than one page in the
application.

>From where I sit it looks like JOTWeb makes more of the application
plumbing implicit than Albatross.  That is a good thing when the
plumbing fits the problem you are trying to solve.

When it comes down to it, the number of lines in a trivial application
is not why you use toolkits and frameworks.  You use a framework to
help construct a complex application.

- Dave

- - app.py - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

#!/usr/bin/python
import albatross
from albatross.cgiapp import Request

if __name__ == '__main__':
    app = albatross.ModularApp(base_url='app.py',
                               module_path='.',
                               template_path='.',
                               start_page='start',
                               secret='not telling')
    app.run(Request())

- - start.py - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

import time

def page_display(ctx):
    ctx.locals.now = time.time()
    ctx.run_template('time.html')

- - time.html - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The current time is: <al-value expr="now" date="%H:%M:%S">

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au



From cpbotha at i_triple_e.org  Fri Jun 27 10:40:00 2003
From: cpbotha at i_triple_e.org (Charl P. Botha)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:40:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: OFF TOPIC: What did Guido say?
References: <20030625002727.20904.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> <3EF95F29.8050609@riks.nl> <mailman.1056534582.11867.python-list@python.org> <bdhdpt$f12$1@eol.dd.chalmers.se> <6BYKa.333824$3n5.216510@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <bdhl00$71b$1@news.tudelft.nl>

In article <6BYKa.333824$3n5.216510 at news2.central.cox.net>, Steve Holden wrote:
> "Anders Hammarquist" <iko at cd.chalmers.se> wrote in message
>> and that would really be:
>>
>> Hej, det h?r ?r Linus Torvalds och jag uttalar Linux Linux.
> So Linus speaks Swedish even though he's a Finn?

IIRC, Linus is one of the ethnic Swedes that make up 5% of the Finnish
population.

-- 
charl p. botha http://cpbotha.net/ http://visualisation.tudelft.nl/



From http  Sun Jun 22 13:25:15 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Jun 2003 10:25:15 -0700
Subject: Remove duplicate letters in a word
References: <mailman.1056298500.15593.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x4r2iowhw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Eliran Gonen <eg at rootshell.be> writes:
> I'm stuck here:
> 
>     for i in range(len(key)):
>         for j in range(len(key)):
>             if key[i] == key[j] :
>                 key[j] = ""
> 
> Hope you can help me,

You can't change the contents of a string in Python.  You have to
make a new string:

    temp = []
    for c in key:
      if c not in key2:
         temp.append(c)
    key = str(temp)



From ebolonev at mail.ru  Sun Jun 29 18:54:24 2003
From: ebolonev at mail.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:54:24 +1100
Subject: strings
Message-ID: <bdnqrj$j72$2@news.rol.ru>

Hi All!

I have a
'Pink Floyd/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00'
and I want a
'Pink Floyd'
How can I manage it?

This one isn't work.
author=f.read(30).replace('\0',' ').rstrip() #from mp3 tag


--
  Egor [ru eo en]





From fraqutal at gmx.de  Thu Jun 19 12:11:00 2003
From: fraqutal at gmx.de (Luther Blisset)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 09:11:00 -0700
Subject: error loading files containing nullbytes w/ urllib?
Message-ID: <d582c617.0306190811.d556599@posting.google.com>

When I try to load a file from a server which contains nullbytes, I
get back a corrupted file where all null bytes are converted to
spaces.

When I save the image with a webbrowser I get a normal .jpg with a
length of 4.545 bytes.

When I do that...

import urllib
pic = urllib.urlopen('http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/195000/images/_198996_george_bush_junior_150.jpg')
img = pic.read()
pic.close()
f = open('gwb.jpg','w')
f.write(img)
f.close()

... I get a file with a size of 4565 bytes and all null bytes are
converted to spaces.
What am I doing wrong???

regards,
frq.



From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Jun 24 11:19:28 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:19:28 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Booleans and comparison results
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306241915430.5887-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

Just a thought. Why cmp() returns -1,0,1 while comparison
results are False and True? Isn't it logical step to add
Less, Equal and More?

>>> cmp(1,2)
Less
>>> cmp(1,-1)
More
>>> cmp(1,1)
Equal


if cmp(foo, bar) is Less:
  ...

hmmm... Sadly, I know GvR is not going to add new keyword:

if cmp(foo, bar) are Equal:
  ...

;-)



Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From tecnic at codidoc.com  Wed Jun 18 06:21:35 2003
From: tecnic at codidoc.com (Oscar Rambla)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:21:35 -0700
Subject: How to recognize a generator function?
Message-ID: <200306180321.35471.tecnic@codidoc.com>

Hi, 

I'm not been able to find a solution to the following:

How to recognize if a function is a generator function before calling it?
(Alternatives to having to inspect code for a yield or wrapping it into a 
class).

Note: I refer to the function, not to the generator itself.

Thank you in advance.

-Oscar




From nosp at m.needed  Thu Jun 19 12:14:01 2003
From: nosp at m.needed (Steve McAllister)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:14:01 +0200
Subject: sum(strings)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1056036815.23557.python-list@python.org>
References: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <mailman.1056036815.23557.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcsnja$arg$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr>

> Python is not Perl! If you need to build the sum over a sequence of 
> strings containing numbers
> then you need to convert them to numbers.

I am talking about sum(['x', 'y']) -> 'xy'.
Since strings can be added, they should be sumable too.  No? :-)




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Jun 25 22:27:52 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:27:52 -0500
Subject: problem with % operator on format string
In-Reply-To: <20030626020423.GB12627@bobas.nowytarg.pl> (vald@valis.amber.eu.org's
 message of "Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:04:23 +0200")
References: <20030626020423.GB12627@bobas.nowytarg.pl>
Message-ID: <m24r2da7yv.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "vald" == vald  <vald at valis.amber.eu.org> writes:

    vald>  query = "select date(xxx, '\%d') from yyy where xxx like
    vald> '%s%s\%'" % (year, month)

    vald> so it should produce something like that (year=2003,
    vald> month=06)

    vald>  select date(xxx, '%d') from yy where xxx like '200306%'

To make a literal %, use %%.  

You are looking for

  query = "select date(xxx, '%%d') from yy where xxx like '%d%02d%%'" % (2003, 6)

The %02d says to pad the second integer with zeros up to length 2.

Check out http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html
for the details.

John Hunter




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun 10 11:26:02 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:26:02 -0600
Subject: Access "slot" field dynamically?
In-Reply-To: <sllFa.660$Hw.844355@news2.news.adelphia.net>; from no_replies@fake_email_address.invalid on Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 01:49:12PM +0000
References: <sllFa.660$Hw.844355@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <20030610092602.H374@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Robert Oschler:
  [...]
> In the block belonging to "printSomeFields()", how do I access the field
> (slot) by grabbing the field name from the fldlist list of strings?
> 
>     print instance_of_hasslot.fl

What you need is

    print getattr(instance_of_hasslot, fl)

Btw, I don't think __slots__ is something you should use for your
run-of-the-mill classes.  It's intended for memory optimization
for classes with lots and lots and lots of instances, afaik
(contrary to some of the documentation, which suggests a
bug-prevention role).

-- 
Steven Taschuk                  staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Telekinesis would be worth patenting."  -- James Gleick




From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Tue Jun 17 01:50:21 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:50:21 +0400
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
In-Reply-To: <4h2tevsoatvr7ahac0qtdmk6v826uf47e9@4ax.com>
References: <16102.10640.855883.967908@montanaro.dyndns.org> <20030610190206.54459.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com> <mailman.1055526867.16928.python-list@python.org> <roy-7FFDA8.17573013062003@reader1.panix.com> <mailman.1055542227.19654.python-list@python.org> <aeqnev0ha6ludr9o0fqpouh7ghsmn2ngnv@4ax.com> <bck65k$112m$1@news.peterlink.ru> <4h2tevsoatvr7ahac0qtdmk6v826uf47e9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bcma6v$1hl2$1@news.peterlink.ru>

Tim Roberts wrote:
> anton muhin <antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Tim Roberts wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In Unix, this option little more than an exercise, because most of the
>>>shells are so functional.  However, there is a very functional and quite
>>>useful Python shell for Windows called PyDOS that adds some very useful
>>>things, as well as allowing direct Python statements.  It's especially
>>>useful on Windows 98, since it adds path completion and other niceties that
>>>are built-in to Win2K.
>>
>>Could you provide an URL? I googled for it, but I was able to find DOS 
>>version of Python only :(
> 
> 
> Memory fault.  It is called "pdos.py".  Find it here:
> 
>   http://hammer.prohosting.com/~pyguy/
> 
> I do not think it is being actively developed, but it's useful as-is, and
> is easily extended.

Thanks a lot.

anton.




From shalehperry at attbi.com  Sat Jun 14 14:21:45 2003
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 11:21:45 -0700
Subject: comprehending comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <roy-9EE81E.13521714062003@reader1.panix.com>
References: <roy-9EE81E.13521714062003@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <200306141121.45474.shalehperry@attbi.com>

On Saturday 14 June 2003 10:52, Roy Smith wrote:
> Why are list comprehensions called what they are?  I find the name very
> confusing.  Is this some standard computer science term?  Is it stolen
> from some other language?

it came from the functional programing world via ML (or was it Haskell).  
That's what they called it.

looking up comprehension in a dictionary (.com) I find :

3. Logic. The sum of meanings and corresponding implications inherent in a 
term.

which I suspect is the meaning used here.





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 24 05:50:43 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:50:43 +0100
Subject: minidom toxml() not emitting attribute namespace qualifier
References: <a82bfc04.0306230711.227bf43d@posting.google.com> <3EF71DBB.321885B4@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3EF81EF3.4E519EE6@hotmail.com>

Alan Kennedy wrote:

> That's a bug in minidom.
> 
> I reported it back in November 2002, but I wasn't precise enough about
> version numbers, so it went unaddressed.

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=106473&aid=637355&group_id=6473

I've checked further, and this is now my understanding.

The bug report I made above related to the standard minidom that comes with the
base installation of python, which does indeed have the bug.

The bug was fixed by the pyxml maintainers, a long time ago, but only in the
minidom that comes with pyxml.

Obviously, the two minidom implementations are out-of-synch.

If you install pyxml, you won't see this problem.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Jun 20 09:08:26 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:08:26 -0400
Subject: sum(strings)
References: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <uZlIa.10$38.9@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <bcttfu$n5trq$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <Kdw8+ks/KrWU089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <bcttfu$n5trq$1 at ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>,
"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
>Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>> Because there is just one right way to do it:
>>
>>     "".join([str1, str2, str3, ...])
>
>Hmmm... maybe this ought to be the "right"
>way to do summing as well:
>
>   total = 0.join([17, 42, 88])

   Interesting point arose the other day.. using '+' to
concatenate strings is wrong, because concatenation isn't
commutative.

   Not that it would necessarily affect my thinking if I
were designing a computer language, but it is a sensible
point.  It might trip up a naive optimizer.

        Regards.        Mel.



From tchur at optushome.com.au  Mon Jun  2 07:35:07 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:35:07 +1000
Subject: How to make slicing and other methods interact?
Message-ID: <002601c328fb$07cbe090$a300a8c0@emilio>

What is the general pattern for making methods interact? For example, I
define a class with overridden __str__ and __getslice__ methods. If I
print an instance of the class, the __str__ method is used. But if I
print a  slice of the instance, only the __getslice__ method is called,
but not __str__.

###################################
class test(object):
	def __init__(self,iterable):
		self._data = iterable
	def __str__(self):
		xlate = {1:'one',2:'two',3:'three',4:'four',5:'five'}
		ret = ['[']
		for x in self._data:
			ret.append(xlate[x])
		ret.append(']')
		return '\n'.join(ret)
	def __getslice__(self,low,high):
		return self._data[low:high]

t = test([1,2,3,4,5])

print t
print
print t[1:3]
###################################

Produces this output:

 [
one
two
three
four
five
]

[2, 3]

When what I really want is:

[
one
two
three
four
five
]

[
two
three
]

Is there a general way of achieving this - so that slicing (or indexing)
semantics propagate to other methods?

Tim C







From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jun  8 20:37:11 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 02:37:11 +0200
Subject: Strange problem with notebook computer
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055116275.15329.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1055116275.15329.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ee3d6b6$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Homer Ellison wrote:
> Is there a possibility that somehow Python or the 
> code I'm writing in Python is causing my notebook computer to overheat? 
> I can't imagine why this would be, but I can't figure out what else 
> might be causing the problem. Any ideas?

This all sounds very unlikely to be Python's fault...
the only thing that I can imagine is that
1) your computer's cooling is broken (bios/fan troubles?), and;
2) the particular python program you're running has
    a loop that eats up 100% cpu time, which causes
    your machine to overheat.

Try using top (linux) or task manager (windows) to find out
if so, and what is eating 100% cpu?

--Irmen




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jun 23 06:26:37 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:26:37 -0700
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org> <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com> <slrnbf8tsd.qc.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <m3r85nmoch.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnbf9fem.1ej5.missive@localhost.my.domain> <m3wuffi1x7.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <23891c90.0306230142.83612c8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF6D5DD.15420D8F@alcyone.com>

Paul Boddie wrote:

> Indeed. The assertion that "7-bit plain text ASCII" is even a
> meaningful format is highly dubious, at least when it comes to
> understanding the information presented in that format.

7-bit ASCII is pretty clear, it's just ASCII (which only defines the
lower 7 bits).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Gods are born and die, but the atom endures.
\__/  Alexander Chase



From jarausch at skynet.be  Wed Jun 11 17:13:15 2003
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:13:15 +0200
Subject: simple text filter
In-Reply-To: <f903b9dd.0306111236.1ca87c93@posting.google.com>
References: <f903b9dd.0306111236.1ca87c93@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE79B6B.40506@skynet.be>

boutrosp at hotmail.com wrote:
> I need some help on a simple text filter. The problem I am having is
> when the file comes to the end it stays in the while loop and does not
> exit. I cannot figure this out. I would use a for loop with the
> readlines() but my datasets can range from 5 to 80 MB of text data.
> Here is the code I am using. Please help.
> 
> import sys, re
> 
> p1 = re.compile('ADT100')
> p2 = re.compile('AUDIT')
> p3 = re.compile('HARDWARE')
> p4 = re.compile('PACKAGES')
> p5 = re.compile('NODE')
> p6 = re.compile('DROP')
> p7 = re.compile('GRID')
> p8 = re.compile('ATAP')
> 
> f=open('adt100_0489.rpt.txt', 'r')
> junky = 1
> done = False
> while not done :
>         junky = f.readline()
>         if p1.search(junky) :
>                 continue
>         elif p2.search(junky) :
>                 continue
>         elif p3.search(junky) :
>                 continue
>         elif p4.search(junky) :
>                 continue
>         elif p5.search(junky) :
>                 continue
>         elif p6.search(junky) :
>                 continue
>         elif p7.search(junky) :
>                 continue
>         elif p8.search(junky) :
>                 continue
>         elif junky == None :

replace this with
           elif junky == '' :
since readline returns an empty string on EOF

>                 done = True
>         else :
>                 print junky
> 
> f.close()


-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany




From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jun  3 23:23:30 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 20:23:30 -0700
Subject: Python get's a mention on University Challenge
References: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <VYNCa.66$5L6.15@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <mailman.1054587904.7131.python-list@python.org> <bbgttl$8r4b1$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EDD6632.AF37CDB2@alcyone.com>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" wrote:

> Should be simple enough:
> 
> def pray(text):
>    open("/dev/god", "w").write(text)
> 
> (Implementation of the /dev/god kernel module left as
> an exercise for the reader.)

God doesn't like being overwritten as another poster pointed out, and
additionally God doesn't particularly like the conditions under which
connections to him are closed left unspecified ... :-).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ My reputation grows with every failure.
\__/  George Bernard Shaw



From m at moshez.org  Wed Jun 11 07:40:50 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 11:40:50 -0000
Subject: Properties using metaclasses (was: Function/Method Decorator Syntax)
In-Reply-To: <20030611110300.GA3350@nl.linux.org>
References: <20030611110300.GA3350@nl.linux.org>, <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <20030610142845.4540.qmail@green.zadka.com> <20030611013918.GA2113@frobozz> <20030611085935.GG2113@frobozz>
Message-ID: <20030611114050.25523.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:

> Just a question: Why would this be evil?

Because people expect

class x(EvilProperty):
    pass

to be a *class* (albeit, new style), and not a *property*.
For example, doing X() would not give you an instance of X.
 
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jun 29 18:30:28 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 08:20:28 +0950
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com> <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com> <bdb22c$psllg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EF933AA.C16ADFE5@alcyone.com> <bdcl1d$v43$0@216.39.172.122> <fef0a228.0306261125.62b83713@posting.google.com> <slrnbfn2eb.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <jg4ofv4n3aq4kc7toh1v22ontijkdu07hp@4ax.com> <slrnbfo50g.17e.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <cKzLa.167$uA7.35005501@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbfur9j.vc1.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:05:44 GMT, Van Gale wrote:
> Ben Finney wrote:
>> I maintain that the CR and LF were needlessly preserved as separate
>> operations, with no benefit.
> 
> I disagree.  IIRC there were plenty of printers where the carriage
> return operation took a disproportionately long time, so therefore
> backspacing was the prefered method for overstriking, but at the same
> time that meant line feeds were a big performance win for smart
> applications.

Fair enough then; the operations were kept separate for a reason
justifiable at the time.

Sadly, now we have to live with the legacy of the resulting confusion,
long after those benefits are obsolete.

-- 
 \     "Here is a test to see if your mission on earth is finished. If |
  `\                       you are alive, it isn't."  -- Francis Bacon |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From shlomme at gmx.net  Sun Jun  1 13:24:31 2003
From: shlomme at gmx.net (Torsten Marek)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 19:24:31 +0200
Subject: PyModule for ID3 v2.2+
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054485603.9328.python-list@python.org>
References: <2147483647.1054415157@[192.168.0.3]>	 <mailman.1054415749.11654.python-list@python.org>	 <3EDA120F.ADEBBDAA@hotmail.com>	 <20030601111005.M1276@localhost.localdomain> <mailman.1054485603.9328.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbdclf$84mpd$1@ID-195815.news.dfncis.de>

Alexander Winston schrieb:
> On Sun, 2003-06-01 at 10:10, Jack Diederich wrote:
> 
>>Most people still use id3v1 which just used fixed length fields.
> 
> 
> By the way, if you all are looking to implement a standard that does not
> have the same fixed length field limitations and does not suck, check
> out APEv2.  They are quite similar to Vorbis comments, which are
> _definitely_ a tagging/commenting format that doesn't suck.  But of
> course, you can't have Vorbis comments in your MP3, so APEv2 is
> definitely your best bet.
> 
Vorbis tags are easy to read (not at least to good support in 
libvorbisfile), but it is (to my knowledge) more difficult to write them 
because every time you change the comment, you have to re-write the file 
(at least vorbiscomment from the official xiph.org does this), which 
does not happen with ID3v2 tags and additional padding in the header.
The flac developers prevented this with putting a vorbis comment into 
the metadata, which can have some padding. I do not know APEv2 by now 
(but I will soon, after your hint, thanks), but do programs support it?

Just another information: vorbis comments contain UTF-8 text, but Winamp 
3.0 seems to screw it up, at least in the version my girlfriend has 
installed.

greetings

Torsten




From ss3canon at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 26 23:15:56 2003
From: ss3canon at earthlink.net (Mike)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 03:15:56 GMT
Subject: List of lists
References: <ekNKa.66745$Io.6262503@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <slrnbfn9oe.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <MFOKa.66866$Io.6273817@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Ok, I'm doin an exercise and I need to expand on test.py. I'm pretty much
done with the exercise except I need to print out the questions and answers
that are in the function.

here is the snippet:

def get_questions():
    return [["What color is the daytime sky on a clear day?","blue"],\
               ["What is the answer to life, the universe and
everything?","42"],\
               ["What is a three letter word for mouse trap?","cat"]]

How do I get the lists from this?

oh here is the whole program;

## This program runs a test of knowledge

true = 1
false = 0

# First get the test questions
# Later this will be modified to use file io.
def get_questions():
    # notice how the data is stored as a list of lists
    return [["What color is the daytime sky on a clear day?","blue"],\
            ["What is the answer to life, the universe and
everything?","42"],\
            ["What is a three letter word for mouse trap?","cat"]]
# This will test a single question
# it takes a single question in
# it returns true if the user typed the correct answer, otherwise false
def check_question(question_and_answer):
    #extract the question and the answer from the list
    question = question_and_answer[0]
    answer = question_and_answer[1]
    # give the question to the user
    given_answer = raw_input(question)
    # compare the user's answer to the testers answer
    if answer == given_answer:
        print "Correct"
        return true
    else:
        print "Incorrect, correct was:",answer
        return false
# This will run through all the questions
def run_test(questions):
    if len(questions) == 0:
        print "No questions were given."
        # the return exits the function
        return
    index = 0
    right = 0
    while index < len(questions):
        #Check the question
        if check_question(questions[index]):
            right = right + 1
        #go to the next question
        index = index + 1
    #notice the order of the computation, first multiply, then divide
    print "You got ",right*100/len(questions),"% right out
of",len(questions)

#now lets run the questions
run_test(get_questions())
## This program runs a test of knowledge

true = 1
false = 0

# First get the test questions
# Later this will be modified to use file io.
def get_questions():
    # notice how the data is stored as a list of lists
    return [["What color is the daytime sky on a clear day?","blue"],\
            ["What is the answer to life, the universe and
everything?","42"],\
            ["What is a three letter word for mouse trap?","cat"]]
# This will test a single question
# it takes a single question in
# it returns true if the user typed the correct answer, otherwise false
def check_question(question_and_answer):
    #extract the question and the answer from the list
    question = question_and_answer[0]
    answer = question_and_answer[1]
    # give the question to the user
    given_answer = raw_input(question)
    # compare the user's answer to the testers answer
    if answer == given_answer:
        print "Correct"
        return true
    else:
        print "Incorrect, correct was:",answer
        return false
# This will run through all the questions
def run_test(questions):
    if len(questions) == 0:
        print "No questions were given."
        # the return exits the function
        return
    index = 0
    right = 0
    while index < len(questions):
        #Check the question
        if check_question(questions[index]):
            right = right + 1
        #go to the next question
        index = index + 1
    #notice the order of the computation, first multiply, then divide
    print "You got ",right*100/len(questions),"% right out
of",len(questions)

#now lets run the questions
run_test(get_questions())





From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  4 14:02:18 2003
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 11:02:18 -0700
Subject: PIL and py2exe Issues
Message-ID: <283adf56.0306041002.4b2d456f@posting.google.com>

Anyone come across the problem of PIL not being able to identify image
files once it's compiled with py2exe?   Do I need to manually add some
plugins to the setup or something?

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 65, in ?
  File "<string>", line 31, in __init__
  File "PictureList.pyc", line 42, in __init__
  File "PictureInfo.pyc", line 23, in __init__
  File "Image.pyc", line 1571, in open
IOError: cannot identify image file

Versions:
Python 2.2.2 (#37)
PIL 1.1.4

Thanks



From no at spam.invalid  Wed Jun 18 19:55:33 2003
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:55:33 -0700
Subject: best idiom for wide try/except net?
Message-ID: <bcqu5n$26pi$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

I have an application that has to be as robust as possible but also 
loads some user-written modules. it is useful in a few places to catch 
almost any exception and report a detailed traceback, then go on.

So far I've been doing this:

try
  # code that might have bugs
except StandardError:
  sys.stderr.write(...)
  traceback.print_exc(file=sys.stderr)

since catching "Exception" also catches SystemExit, which sounded like a 
bit much. (I'd rather also not catch KeyboardInterrupt, but I can live 
with that).

However, some standard libraries, such as socket, use exceptions which 
are a subclass of Exception, but not a subclass of StandardError. I'm 
wondering if this typical/normal/acceptable for standard libraries or is 
something to be fixed?

The only workaround I've thought of is this, which looks a bit ugly to 
me (it seems a shame to have to explicitly catch stuff I don't want):

try:
  # code that might have bugs
except (SystemExit, KeyboardInterrupt):
  # exceptions I do not want to catch
   throw
except:
   # all other exceptions
  sys.stderr.write(...)
  traceback.print_exc(file=sys.stderr)

Any suggestions?

-- Russell



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jun 27 10:45:50 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:45:50 GMT
Subject: filedescriptor out of range in select()
References: <bde89s$ef4$1@main.gmane.org> <mailman.1056616363.2840.python-list@python.org> <3EFABC5E.329613C6@alcyone.com> <bdelmg$cb7$1@main.gmane.org> <mailman.1056716925.10216.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yMYKa.333826$3n5.313686@news2.central.cox.net>

"Paolo Invernizzi" <paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1056716925.10216.python-list at python.org...
> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
>
> > but I'm pretty sure asyncore supports the "poll" interface.  try
changing
> > the asyncore.loop call in Dibbler.py to:
> >
> >     asyncore.loop(map=context._map, use_poll=1)
> >
> > and see what happens.
>
> Here we are again....
> Too many open files... with poll too...
>
> ---
> Paolo
>
> SpamBayes POP3 Proxy Beta1, version 0.1 (May 2003),
> using SpamBayes POP3 Proxy Web Interface Alpha2, version 0.02
> and engine SpamBayes Beta1, version 0.1 (May 2003).
>
> Loading database... Done.
> SMTP Listener on port 2525 is proxying 127.0.0.1:25
> Listener on port 8110 is proxying kpnqwest.it:110
> User interface url is http://localhost:8880/
> error: uncaptured python exception, closing channel
> <__main__.BayesProxyListener listening :8110 at 0x83c9f6c>
> (socket.error:(24, 'Too many open files')
[...]
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "/usr/local/bin/pop3proxy.py", line 731, in ?
>      run()
>    File "/usr/local/bin/pop3proxy.py", line 725, in run
>      main(state.servers, state.proxyPorts, state.uiPort, state.launchUI)
>    File "/usr/local/bin/pop3proxy.py", line 664, in main
>      Dibbler.run(launchBrowser=launchUI)
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/spambayes/Dibbler.py",
> line 528, in run
>      asyncore.loop(map=context._map,use_poll=1)
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/asyncore.py", line 206, in loop
>      poll_fun (timeout, map)
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/asyncore.py", line 190, in poll3
>      obj.handle_error()
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/spambayes/Dibbler.py",
> line 205, in handle_error
>      asynchat.async_chat.handle_error(self)
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/asyncore.py", line 427, in handle_error
>      self.close()
>    File "/usr/local/bin/pop3proxy.py", line 368, in close
>      if not self.isClosed:
>    File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/asyncore.py", line 372, in __getattr__
>      return getattr (self.socket, attr)
> AttributeError: '_socket.socket' object has no attribute 'isClosed'
>

I suspect that the "too many open files" is simply a symptom of a deeper
problem, in that your sockets aren't being correctly closed due to a
programming error. The asyncore framework will happily continue to run even
if errors occur in the event-handling routines, cneatly demonstrating the
dangers of an unlimited "try:/except:".

There's a clear implication here that a BayesProxy instance isn't running
its __init__() method, because if it *were* running it the isClosed
attribute would be defined.

Are you perchance subclassing Bayesproxy and overriding its __init__()
rather than extending it? If so then try adding

    BayesProxy.__init__(self,  clientSocket, serverName, serverPort)

or equivalent to your subclass' __init__().

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From doug at notAvalidEmail.com  Fri Jun  6 18:49:52 2003
From: doug at notAvalidEmail.com (Doug)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 22:49:52 GMT
Subject: server, not client, modules needed.
Message-ID: <kU8Ea.103657$h42.4481@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Hi, i know that there is an smtpd module in the standard library and a few
web server modules out there but i was wondering if there were any other
server modules (ftp,ircd,pop3, etc) on the net. i've been searching and have
come up empty handed, ones using threads or asyncore would be great.

TIA





From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Jun 20 07:59:49 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 12:59:49 +0100
Subject: Need help optimizing first script
References: <a34b632.0306190503.32483efe@posting.google.com> <bcue2q$kts$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <87smq5558q.fsf@pobox.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> On 19 Jun 2003 06:03:22 -0700, popup391 at yahoo.com (Frederic Lafleche) wrote:
[...]
> No one seems to have mentioned strftime yet ;-)
[...]

Um, except the original poster, and me.


John



From misterxx at uni-koblenz.de  Wed Jun 18 03:35:26 2003
From: misterxx at uni-koblenz.de (Oleg Seifert)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:35:26 +0200
Subject: recv
Message-ID: <3EF0163E.4010204@uni-koblenz.de>

Hallo Leute,

habe eine kleine Frage:

Ich soll mit Python eine Netzwerkanfrage senden und eine Antwort 
ausgeben. Daf?r habe ich folgenden Skript geschrieben:
-------------------------------------
from socket import *

def read():
	print s.recv(1024)
	

s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
s.connect(("localhost", 99))

s.send("loadGraph(\"g.g\");\n")
read()
s.close()
-------------------------------------
Die Anfrage wird gesendet und die Antwort kommt auch an, aber von dem 
Antwort erscheint immer nur eine Zeile. Die Antworte sind auch 
unterschiedlich, sie k?nnen verschiedene Zeilenanzahl haben. Wie kann 
ich unabh?ngig von einer Antwortstruktur, ganze Antwort ausgeben ?

danke im Voraus.
mfg,
   Oleg




From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 20 15:51:31 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:51:31 -0700
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056133597.28230.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcvoho$n8e2g$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

Roman ...

My opinion of XML is that instead of stuff
that looks like this ....

    <Granny wants to know if you REALLY liked her Hei?e Himbeeren>
    Y
    </Granny wants to know if you REALLY liked her Hei?e Himbeeren>

I'd rather have a Cobol record layout ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From hankhu at 263.net  Thu Jun 26 23:40:27 2003
From: hankhu at 263.net (Hank Hu)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:40:27 +0800
Subject: How to upload a file with httplib?
Message-ID: <bdgebp$fe1$1@mail.cn99.com>

Hi all,

I'm writing a prototype with python and need upload a zip file to a web
server. Any idea?

Hank Hu





From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Tue Jun 10 09:49:23 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:49:23 +1000
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
In-Reply-To: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <20030610134923.GE16327@frobozz>

On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:25:13PM +0000, Kevin Smith wrote:
[...]
>     The proposed syntax is general enough that it could be used 
>     on class definitions as well as shown below.
> 
>         class foo(object) as classmodifier:
>             class definition here
> 
>     However, there are no obvious parallels for use with other
>     descriptors such as property().

Note that you can already do tricky stuff with properties if you really want
to define one all at once:

    class EvilProperty(type):
        def __new__(cls, name, bases, d):
            return property(d.get('get'), d.get('set'), d.get('del'), d['__doc__'])
    
    class C(object):
        class x:
            """An evil test property"""
            __metaclass__ = EvilProperty
            def get(self):
                print 'Getting'
                return 1
            def set(self, value):
                print 'Setting to', value
                
    c = C()
    print c.x
    c.x = 5  
    print C.x.__doc__

This has the advantage that you can define your property in a single block,
and you don't have to look too far ahead in the nested class to see the
crucial "__metaclass__ = EvilProperty" line.

It does kinda feel like yet-another-gratuitous-use-of-metaclasses, though ;)

-Andrew.





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun  3 12:18:05 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:18:05 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <3EDC51DE.6040502@nospam.com>; from kendear@nospam.com on Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 07:44:35AM +0000
References: <3EDC51DE.6040502@nospam.com>
Message-ID: <20030603101805.A341@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Kendear:
  [...]
> I think if a language supports a = b = 1
> then that means  "b = 1"  returns a value
> of 1, which can be assigned to any variable.
> But it seems like it is only a syntactic sugar
> in Python?

Right.  Note also that the assignments happen left to right; try

    d = {}
    i = 0
    i = d[i] = 4
    print d

(Though obviously it's not good style to exploit this detail in
real code.)

The relevant part of the Language Reference is
    <http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/assignment.html>

> if Python supports   1 < a < 10
> then maybe it is also just syntactic sugar.

Right.  It's the same as
    1 < a and a < 10
except that the middle expression is evaluated only once.  See
    <http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/comparisons.html>

> Other language might take it as  (1 < a) < 10
> which is just the boolean 0 or 1 less than 10
> which is always true.

... which is one reason Python is better than such languages.  The
test 1 < a < 10 does in Python is actually useful, and in keeping
with the mathematical notation.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                7\ 7'Z {&~         .
staschuk at telusplanet.net                        Y r          --/hG-
                                            (__/ )_             1^1`




From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jun 19 08:04:26 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 13:04:26 +0100
Subject: parsing complex web pages
References: <mailman.1055971051.1456.python-list@python.org> <873ci7x80p.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1055994212.5052.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87r85qqnn9.fsf@pobox.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:

> >>>>> "John" == John J Lee <jjl at pobox.com> writes:
> 
>     John> If it works well for you, why not stick with it?
[...]
> It did cause me to wonder though, whether some good python html->text
> converters which render the html as text (ie, preserve visual layout),
> were lurking out their beneath my radar screen.

If they exist, it's unlikely they'll do as good a job as lynx (in
general, not talking about Yahoo in particular), because there is so
much awful HTML out there.  lynx has been around a long time.


John



From nosp at m.needed  Wed Jun 25 08:35:17 2003
From: nosp at m.needed (Steve McAllister)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:35:17 +0200
Subject: Newbie: "compiling" scrips (?)
In-Reply-To: <M4gKa.319364$3n5.125426@news2.central.cox.net>
References: <bdbrv2$9un$02$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1056537281.12123.python-list@python.org> <bdc160$n2i$01$1@news.t-online.com> <M4gKa.319364$3n5.125426@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <bdc51a$8tm$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr>

> You don't need to compile into the machine language of every
 > platform you target. Instead the "compilation" process
> generates bytecodes for a fictitious virtual computer. [...]
> Both Java and Perl work in a similar way

I would add the nuance that unlike Java, no explicit compilation 
phase has to be performed, which, in combination with lightweight 
syntax and library ergonomy, saves a lot of time, undermine anything.

For instance, when you go into quick-and-dirty checks, no sticks will 
be put in your wheels because you forgot to throw IOException, 
because a method throws more than the superclass's, etc.




From cybersamurai at mac.com  Fri Jun 13 12:56:27 2003
From: cybersamurai at mac.com (Luiz Siqueira)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:56:27 -0300
Subject: html on Python
Message-ID: <3804745.1055523387787.JavaMail.cybersamurai@mac.com>

I need some html browser or some package to work with html for my project, I try Grail but it have a lot of deprecated code.

Thanks about help me.




From andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk  Mon Jun  2 11:08:52 2003
From: andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk (Andrew Walkingshaw)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 15:08:52 GMT
Subject: A Python application server?
References: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnbdmq44.i3p.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net>

In article <bbfmfo$ulf$1 at newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, Duncan Smith wrote:
> Hello,
>          I'm trying to put together a (basic) design for an online
> examination system.  The system already exists, but is based on Java
> technologies.  I have (probably prematurely) assured the author that the
> system could have been developed in Python.  This is based in faith rather
> than reason, as I have never had cause to consider such a thing before
> (although I can now envisage that I might need to develop a simple
> application server within the next year or so).

In terms of prior art, I and a fellow student, as holiday employees,
wrote an exam server in Python (mod_python/apache, postgres backend),
conformant to the QTI Lite spec (http://www.imsproject.org/ - basically
multiple-choice visual/audio/textual questions), in about three months:
we didn't have strong authentication or any sort of eavesdropping
protection, though (we were doing everything via unencrypted HTTP). This
was meant to be released as BSD license software at some point, but it
never appeared. :(

This makes me believe more experienced programmers could put together a
rather better system in the same sort of timeframe.

Is there any reason (type of question, etc) why you can't aim for a
web-browser based solution on the client side, using SSL authentication
or similar to counter MITM/eavesdropping/impersionation attacks?

- Andrew

-- 
Andrew Walkingshaw | andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk




From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jun 13 09:56:29 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:56:29 +0200
Subject: user authentication interface in python
In-Reply-To: <3cf72d52.0306130501.6acb9984@posting.google.com>
References: <3cf72d52.0306130501.6acb9984@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE9D80D.4030504@ghaering.de>

scn wrote:
> hello.  does anyone have a high-level example of how to implement
> 'secure' user authentication interface for web users in python.
> 
> i am in the process of designing a simple web application that
> requires user authentication and i remembered that php typically held
> system authentication information in a separate file and included this
> file in the main interface script.

What's the advantage of this approach? The only pro I see is that if you 
misconfigure your webserver so the .php file is rendered as-is without 
processing through PHP the user won't see the password.

> is there a similar convention or methodology in python for
> accomplishing the same idea? [...]

Sure, you can

a) import a module from elsewhere

or

b) open the file using file("/path/to/file") and read it

I still don't see why you'd want to store user information like this.

FWIW, I typically do authentication either using Apache directly or 
store login and password in a PostgreSQL database.







From hsart at gmx.de  Fri Jun 27 06:27:42 2003
From: hsart at gmx.de (H.S. Art)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:27:42 +0200
Subject: output
Message-ID: <3EFC1C1E.6020504@gmx.de>

Hi folks,

I have a sript that runs very well. I do my output to the python shell 
with the print command. That works well, too.
print 'Error occured ' + str(i+1)

No I want to have my output into a textctrl frame in a window. I start 
my script by pushing a button in my window. It starts fine but I can't 
see any output. For test purposes I added the following code to the 
event  handler of the button:
self.textCtrl1.WriteText('TEST\n')
This produces output to my text ctrl window. So I replaced all 'print' 
commands in my script with 'self.textCtrl1.WriteText ...' Unfortunately 
it still doesn't work. I don't get any output from my script. I always 
get an error saying self is unknown. That's why I replaced it with the 
name of the file of the window and so on and so on. Nothing worked. Can 
you help me telling me how I have to write my code to get an output?

Thank you very much.
Henry




From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Jun  4 17:33:24 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:33:24 -0600
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
References: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <bblob1$2fo$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>

Aur?lien G?ron:
> - the documentation is half Tk and half python which makes it confusing

Well, I find the wxPython documentation pretty confusing myself.
The Qt documentation is much easier to use.  For example, suppose
I'm looking at the wxListBar documention to find out how to select
an item programmatically.  It's not on that page - I need to look at the
list of base classes, guess that it's in wxControlWithItems and look at
that documentation.  Qt's docs include a list of all methods available
from a given widget.  I also like Qt's cross references to code, inclusion
of how the widgets look, and that the HTML docs for a widget are
in a URL ending with the same name (I have Konqueror set up so that
"qt:XYZ" expands to "/path/to/qt/docs/qtXYZ.html", so I can quickly
pull up the docs for the widget.)

Or, for example, see the "wxGrid classes overview" which has sections
with content "Yet to be written."

> So I looked for a better way and behold: I found wxPython.  In comparison,
> it truly ROCKS !

I've only dabbled in Qt and wxPython, but so far I've found Qt easier
to use.  The API also seems a bit more stable - I've known people who
used wxWindows a couple years ago, and things like the table widget
kept changing enough that they decided to write their own interface
layer to that widget.

That may have stabilized since then.

> I'm sure beginners would come to love Python even faster if they could
truly
> create their first GUI in minutes.  I'm voting for wxPython to replace Tk
in
> the future Python distribution.
>
> Any comments on this ? Anyone else want to vote ?

I also found Qt's Designer easier to use than Boa Constructor or the
XML-based
one which comes with wxPython.  In no small part because Qt includes a
nice tutorial describing how to write a simple application.  With Boa
Constructor,
I couldn't figure out how to say "put a spacer between these two objects".
I
gave up and just wrote the code myself, using an empty text widget, but even
then my layout doesn't work correctly on resizes, and I don't yet know why.

Then again, I don't use Tkinter, so changing to another default GUI doesn't
really affect me.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 13 07:39:51 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:39:51 +0100
Subject: OnFileOpent(self, event):
References: <bccbsn$hd50f$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EE9B807.491924C6@hotmail.com>

MK wrote:

> Hi group,
> I just picked up Python two days ago and it's ....... true

Call me a prude, but I don't believe that there's any need for that kind of
"descriptive language" in c.l.p.

This is a family newsgroup after all, isn't it? Don't we get high-school kids
and younger around here?

:-(

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  2 17:44:13 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 21:44:13 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jun  2)
Message-ID: <vdnh9drlbd2tcc@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "There is a certain charm to seeing someone happily advocate a
triangular wheel because it has one less bump per revolution than a
square wheel does."  -- Chuck Swiger

"It took me years to realise how deep and important the divide is between
wanting an SDK and wanting to know the underlying protocol."  -- Tim Bray


Discussion:
    Bengt Richter works out (with a few revisions, and variants from
    other posters) how to make a switch-case work-alike by abusing
    exceptions.
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=535044209d026bb#link9>

    Carl Banks demonstrates an introspective technique for "declaring"
    local variables.
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=b2a660906391cc6c#link5>

    A draft essay explaining descriptors, by Raymond Hettinger.
        <http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm>

Announcements:
    Python 2.2.3: A bug fix release for the Python 2.2 code line.
        <http://www.python.org/2.2.3/>

    Voting for the 2003 Active Awards for open-source programmers
    starts June 3.
        <http://www.activestate.com/Corporate/ActiveAwards/>

    EmPy 3.0: a system for embedding Python expressions and statements
    in template text.
        <http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/>

    gdmodule 0.41: A Python wrapper for the GD graphics module.
        <http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/gdmodule.html>

    McMillan Installer 5b5_3: A utility for distributing Python
    applications; this is a bug fix release.
        <http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/installer_dnld.html>

    managesieve 0.2: A MANGAGESIEVE client library for remotely
    managing Sieve scripts, including an interactive 'sieveshell'.
        <http://www.crazy-compilers.com/py-lib/managesieve.html>

    msnp.py 0.3: A pure-Python implementation of the MSN instant
    messaging protocol.
        <http://msnp.sf.net/>

    PyGDChart Alpha 2: A Python interface to the GDChart graphing
    library.
        <http://www.nullcube.com/software/pygdchart2.html>

    PyOSG 0.4.0: Python bindings for the OpenSceneGraph real-time
    visualisation library.
        <http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyosg>

    yawPyCrypto 0.02: A more full-featured PyCrypto wrapper.
        <http://ph0enix.homelinux.org/~heiko>


========================================================================
Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of summarizing action on the
    python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Mon Jun 23 11:06:14 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 16:06:14 +0100
Subject: Getting a list of an object's methods?
References: <Xns93A2DFFF69BDCfreddiethescaryeleph@203.10.110.105> <bd498r$o0ehq$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de> <yfsk7be5e5f.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <bd4sst$pcteb$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de> <yfsel1l651p.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <2259b0e2.0306230447.52460ace@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <yfsadc86dg9.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:

> The problem with .mro() is that it is a method of the metaclass
> 'type':
> 
> >>> dir(type)
> ['__base__', '__bases__', '__basicsize__', '__call__', '__class__',
> '__cmp__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__dictoffset__', '__doc__',
> '__flags__', '__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__',
> '__itemsize__', '__module__', '__mro__', '__name__', '__new__',
> '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__',
> '__subclasses__', '__weakrefoffset__', 'mro']
> 
> IIRC, Tim Peters wrote in this newsgroup some months ago that 'dir'
> was
> designed in such a way to not report metaclass methods. The idea was
> that the typical user doesn't want too much information. Therefore
> 'dir'
> is not meant to be exaustive:
> 
> >>> help(dir)
> Help on built-in function dir:
> 
> dir(...)
>     dir([object]) -> list of strings
>     
>     Return an alphabetized list of names comprising (some of) the
> attributes
>                                                      ^^^^^^^^
>     of the given object, and of attributes reachable from it:
> 
> Nevertheless, one may disagree with this attitude, and I think that if
> enough users protest enough, we may get a more powerful 'dir' in the
> future.

The desirable semantics for `dir` are not relevant here. If 'mro' is a
"member" of `int`, then ``inspect.getmembers(int)`` should return it,
regardless of whatever `dir` does, because that's what its documentation says:

Definition:	inspect.getmembers(object, predicate=None)
Docstring:
    Return all members of an object as (name, value) pairs sorted by name.
    Optionally, only return members that satisfy a given predicate.

Now I have no idea what the hell a "member" is supposed to be (inspect's docu
won't tell you and the only sense in which it occurs in the language ref is
that of set membership (i.e. qualfiying __contains__)), so my guess is that
it's just some ad hoc synonym for attribute (not that I remember stumbling
across a clear definition of attribute anywhere, either).

"Member" better have *some* reasonably well-defined meaning, because unlike
`dir` which is supposed to just give a "convinient" overview of an objects
content in interactive session, AFAICT `inspect.getmembers` is meant to be
used for programming. I somehow prefer my programs to have well-defined
meanings.

So if no-one enlightens me, I shall file a bug report.


'as



From dradul at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  9 14:26:17 2003
From: dradul at yahoo.com (Alejandro Lopez-Valencia)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:26:17 -0500
Subject: Size of Cygwin's distribution
References: <bc28jj$e2b99$1@ID-99513.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.1055174226.23126.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc2jg9$e6djr$2@ID-99513.news.dfncis.de>

On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:56:06 -0400, Jason Tishler <jason at tishler.net>
wrote:

>
>On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 10:20:36AM -0500, Alejandro Lopez-Valencia wrote:
>> Yet, I do have a little complain: size. Why is so big? There is a lot
>

Jason, 

>OK, submit a patch to remedy the above and I will consider it.  Note
>that I am just tar-ing up the "make install" and doc trees.

Hmmm... To cygwin's bug tracker/mailing list? Or to you directly?

>Maybe it's time to split the monolithic package into multiple packages?
>However, an important goal to keep in mind is minimizing the "cost" for
>me to generate these packages.  Any solution must be script-able and fit
>into my packaging infrastructure.

Sure, I think what I have in mind can be integrated within your build
script. I'll  give it a spin.

Cheers

Alejo




From polux2001 at wanadoo.fr  Sun Jun  1 03:01:33 2003
From: polux2001 at wanadoo.fr (polux)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 09:01:33 +0200
Subject: tkinter text display on linux
Message-ID: <bbc81l$h60$1@news-reader14.wanadoo.fr>

I've noticed that the tkinter text display in canvas is much more faster on
windows than on linux....do you have the same problem ? Is there a way to
fix it ?

thanks



From Dick.Zantow at lexisnexis.com  Mon Jun 16 13:31:16 2003
From: Dick.Zantow at lexisnexis.com (rzed)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:31:16 -0400
Subject: Loop from 'aaaa' to 'tttt' ?
References: <slrnberu4u.khj.lschaps@x11.informatik.uni-bremen.de>
Message-ID: <bckuuk$n3o$1@mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com>

Lars Schaps wrote:
> Hello.
>
> In my program in need a loop from 'aaaa' over
> 'aaac', 'aaag', 'aaat', 'aaca' to 'tttt'.
> (Possible characters 'a', 'c', 'g' and 't')
>
> One idea i had is to take a number n with the base of
> 4 and use
>
> t= string.translate( '0123', 'acgt')
> string.translate( n, t)
>
> But i don't know how to convert from base10 to base4.
>
> Has anyone a idea?
>

I'm not sure if this is at like what you had in mind, but:

ltrs = 'acgt'

for a in ltrs:
    for c in ltrs:
        for g in ltrs:
            for t in ltrs:
                print  '%s%s%s%s' % (a,c,g,t)

--
rzed






From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jun  8 02:39:59 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 08 Jun 2003 08:39:59 +0200
Subject: Characters in Python
References: <aaf09156.0306050423.21b45f6@posting.google.com> <23891c90.0306060626.24e6646d@posting.google.com> <aaf09156.0306071439.2a156033@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m33cilxebk.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

jansun at home.se (Jan Sundstr?m) writes:

> By the way, where do I find what strings are acceptable names for
> encodings?

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/node126.html

Regards,
Martin



From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Tue Jun  3 15:06:28 2003
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 21:06:28 +0200
Subject: reading files in folder
References: <mailman.1054665193.10995.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbirj8$9p8$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

> Here are links that demonstrate os.path.walk.  Note
> the use of isfile to distinguish between files and
> directories.
>
> http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/viewphtml/aid/3380/fid/481
the first link misses one dot, the working link is:
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/3380/fid/481

regards Gerrit
--
www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/





From timr at probo.com  Sat Jun 14 23:38:58 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 20:38:58 -0700
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <16102.10640.855883.967908@montanaro.dyndns.org> <20030610190206.54459.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com> <mailman.1055526867.16928.python-list@python.org> <roy-7FFDA8.17573013062003@reader1.panix.com> <mailman.1055542227.19654.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <aeqnev0ha6ludr9o0fqpouh7ghsmn2ngnv@4ax.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
>
>Me too from time to time.  Someone else mentioned using Python as their
>login shell.  Just for the hell of it I created an account named "skippy" on
>my laptop with the same privileges as my normal "skip" account but with
>Python instead of Bash as my login shell:

In Unix, this option little more than an exercise, because most of the
shells are so functional.  However, there is a very functional and quite
useful Python shell for Windows called PyDOS that adds some very useful
things, as well as allowing direct Python statements.  It's especially
useful on Windows 98, since it adds path completion and other niceties that
are built-in to Win2K.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 12 14:20:13 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 19:20:13 +0100
Subject: Sockets and threads
References: <C0BFa.597$n46.42261599@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com> <3EE6FEE7.8CFF39B5@hotmail.com> <HH1Ga.1854$7w4.577@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3EE8C45D.DDF6780B@hotmail.com>

Byron Morgan wrote:

>>> If I monitor a socket connection or even jsust listen to a 
>>> socket in a thread, Python's cpu usage expands to use all
>>> available processor time.

> Here are two code samples - sample 1 runs very politely, using
> minmal cpu. Sample 2 causes the cpu usage meter to max out to 100%
> unless there is a sleep cycle in main(), in which case cpu usage
> looks very much like sample 1 (but I need for my apps to do stuff,
> not spend the day sleeping).


> # tnet1.py

> while not msvcrt.kbhit():
>     txt = session.read_until('\n',.5)
>     #seems to make no difference whether a timeout value is used or not.
>     if txt.strip() is not '':
>         print txt.strip()

I think that this is one problem. My understanding is that msvcrt.kbhit() is a
non-blocking call, meaning that there will no pause whether or not a key has
been hit. This while loop will cycle continually until a key is pressed. And if
the code that is running inside the loop does not pause for any reason, then
this will consume all of the CPU cycles.

But, inside your function, you do a "Telnet().read_until()", which is actually
blocking waiting for particular input, i.e. the "\n". This means that the
".read_until" function won't return until it has read a "\n" from the input
stream, or until 0.5 seconds have elapsed. Which means that most often, the
keyboard will only be checked every 0.5 seconds. Which is fairly light load for
a modern machine ;-) Which is why this while loop *seems* to behave properly.

> #tnet2.py
> def main():
>     while not msvcrt.kbhit():
>         pass
>         #sleep(5)
>         #uncomment sleep statement and cpu usage returns to normal.
>     session.close()

And the same while loop again, but this time without a blocking call inside it
to prevent it from chewing up all of the CPU cycles. If you uncomment your
sleep(5), you will find that it runs continually, waking up every five seconds,
checking once if the keyboard was hit and then going back to sleep or exiting.
One keyboard check every five seconds is a pretty light load, so you wouldn't
notice it on your cpu meter. But it won't respond to your input while it is
inside that sleep call.

If you want to check two different sources of information in this way, you have
to make a trade-off between how many CPU cycles you want to consume and how
responsive you want your application to be. Make your while loop pause for a
configurable amount of time, and pause that amount. These loops often have a
format like this:

timeout = 0.100 # 100 milliseconds
while 1:
    # Do a non-blocking check of source 1
    checkSource1()
    # Do a non-blocking check of source 2
    checkSource2()
    # And be nice to the cpu
    sleep(timeout)

On platforms like *nix, there are ways of checking multiple sources at a time,
through a select, but you need to be able to wrap everything as a file
descriptor.

This kind of activity should only be required in a single-threaded situation.
The reason for having multiple threads is that threads can operate
independently, meaning that some can block while others continue executing, i.e.
do multiple things at once, without you having to explicitly manage them.

BTW, another thing I notice (in "tnet2.py") is that you're checking
"msvcrt.kbhit()" in two threads at a time. This is threading on thin ice, since
input sources like keyboards can generally not be shared between two threads
simultaneously consuming the input. However, if you don't actually read any
characters from the keyboard, it should be OK.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From stan at stanheckman.com  Sat Jun 28 13:00:06 2003
From: stan at stanheckman.com (Stan Heckman)
Date: 28 Jun 2003 13:00:06 -0400
Subject: (Numeric) should -7 % 5 = -2 ?
Message-ID: <87k7b6cf3d.fsf_-_@schedar.com>

Is the following behavior expected, or have I broken my Numeric
installation somehow?

$python
Python 2.2.2 (#1, Mar 21 2003, 23:01:54)
[GCC 3.2.3 20030316 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import Numeric
>>> Numeric.__version__
'23.0'
>>> -7 % 5
3
>>> Numeric.array(-7) % 5
-2
>>> Numeric.remainder(-7, 5)
-2

-- 
Stan



From bdeck at lycos.co.uk  Wed Jun  4 10:27:57 2003
From: bdeck at lycos.co.uk (deckerben)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:27:57 +0200
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
References: <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <3EDDF17B.F7B930E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3ede00c9$0$16597$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3EDDF17B.F7B930E at engcorp.com...
> deckerben wrote:
> By the way, do you really mean DOS, as in MS-DOS or PC-DOS or something
> *without* Windows running on top, or do you just mean in a DOS window
> of one of Microsoft's operating systems?
>
> If the former, how do you plan to get Python running?  Once you do, are
> you sure either of the above will work on it?  They might require modules
> that are not available to you on DOS.


But Python DOES run under DOS, especially well under DJGPP. Have you seen
our project at htpp://members.lycos.co.uk/bdeck ??

There is also a downloadable pre-alpha 4suite there for DOS (v12)

ciao,
Ben





From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Jun 17 04:15:27 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:15:27 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3eece571$0$49110$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <oX5Ha.116651$3Sm.35400@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3BfHa.95965$pR3.2057696@news1.tin.it> <bcl8b1$6qv$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <z6AHa.100844$pR3.2193805@news1.tin.it>

Bengt Richter wrote:
   ...
>>def isStringLike(s):
>>    try: s+''
> Nit: succeeding with this test could be expensive if s is e.g., a 100MB
> file image (I think this has come up before in a discussion of such

Yes.  The solution I suggested then (and keep in my sleeve for possible
future needs, but have never needed yet -- see below) was

    try: s[:0]+''

> I like the concept of testing for comptible behavior, but I would want to
> feel sure that there could be no unexpected side effects from testing any
> candidate args.

You cannot "feel sure" in any language that allows "virtual methods":
whenever you call a potentially-virtual method you _might_ be hitting
a weird override that has crazy side effects.  To achieve polymorphism,
you give up on the yearning to "feel sure" and trust the client to NOT
do such crazy things.  Testing candidate args is not any different from
using any (potentially virtual) operation whatsoever on the args, i.e.,
no different from any other application whatsoever of polymorphism.

> I wonder if
>     try: s and s[0]+'' or s+''
> would serve as well, and protect against the big-s hit. Or is
> there a sensible string-like thing that doesn't support logical
> tests and indexing but does support adding '' ?

I prefer the more concise suggestion above, which requires slicing
instead of indexing and logical tests.  However, the issues are
similar.  In particular, both of these tests classify mmap.mmap
instances as "string-like", while my preferred s+'' doesn't -- i.e.,
an mmap instance isn't "directly" string-like, but its slices and
items are (indeed, said slices and items ARE strings!-).  So, in
my sleeve next to the slicing possibility is a small reminder to
specialcase mmap if I ever do end up needing that... and, the very
need to specialcase is in turn a reminder that the workarounds are
not entirely pleasant.


Alex




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sun Jun  8 08:15:10 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 05:15:10 -0700
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306080415.52a8ba8@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA at comcast.com>...> 

> So if we are to make special syntactic rules for lambda, I would like
> to make them less powerful by restricting the expression body to
> lambda-less expressions

Cool! Unfortunately, this cannot be done because it would break existing
code (most of it in Python obfuscated code contests ;-). Anyway, it is
a nice idea and I like it!


                                                     Michele



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Wed Jun 18 00:29:43 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 04:29:43 GMT
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <mailman.1055908712.5410.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbevqlm.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:57:36 +1000, Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) wrote:
> There is a growing view (not necessarily correct - IANAL) that the GPL
> is actually an explicit waiver of copyright due to the requirement to
> distribute the source when the binary is distributed.

Your use of the word "explicit waiver of copyright" is provably false,
since "explicit" means "clearly stated; plain in language", and there is
no language in the GPL that clearly states a waiver of copyright.

You may mean "implicit", which is the exact opposite ("fairly to be
understood, though not expressed in words"), but there has been no
ruling on the GPL to date (because anyone found to be in breach of its
terms has decided not to challenge it in court), so we can't know
anything about what a court may find implicit in the license.

So we are left with a putative "growing view", which has only the status
of rumour; and you don't state whether it is a growing view among
copyright lawyers, or among casual observers, or even how many people
hold this view.

Thanks for the FUD, but no thanks.

-- 
 \         "Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free |
  `\       than Christianity has made them good."  -- Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun 11 11:55:55 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:55:55 +0200
Subject: FW: [Python-Dev] Re: PEP-317
Message-ID: <20030611155555.GA5264@nl.linux.org>

Hi,

Guido officially rejected PEP-317.

:(

----- Forwarded message from Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> -----

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:10:22 +0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] Re: PEP-317
From: Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org>
To: Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com>
Cc: guido at python.org, staschuk at telusplanet.net, python-dev at python.org
X-BeenThere: python-dev at python.org
Sender: Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org>
Old-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:13:29 -0400

> If the PEP winds up being officially rejected, I propose that it
> grow a "rejection reasons" section explaing why, and that this section
> also describe the above plan as the "plausible alternative" to PEP 317
> for eventual migration to new-style exceptions.

I strongly recommend doing that.  I hereby officially reject PEP 317.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

_______________________________________________
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev


----- End forwarded message -----

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
132. If the "finger is pointed" at a man's wife about another man, but
she is not caught sleeping with the other man, she shall jump into the
river for her husband.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Jun  4 10:08:14 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:08:14 -0500 
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304F669E6@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Skip Montanaro [mailto:skip at pobox.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 9:03 AM
> 
>     bryan> thanks skip... now i can see the elegance of this solution.
>     bryan> wouldn't this also solve the pre/post conditions that are
>     bryan> currently put in comments with another current solution?  
> 
> That was the general idea. ;-)
> 
>     bryan> but, how would you handle pre/post conditions that are only
>     bryan> supposed to be used in a debug version?
> 
> Like I said, it was probably full of holes.
> 
> Skip
>

Since decorators are in a dictionary, in what order should
they be applied? I though item extraction from a dictionary
was, basically, unordered.

The idea of keeping them in a list (syntax #1) was that
it's easy to see the order they're going to be applied
to the original function.

-gca
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org  Sat Jun 14 23:20:43 2003
From: smulloni at bracknell.smullyan.org (Jacob Smullyan)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 23:20:43 -0400
Subject: Zip imports on python 2.2?
References: <mailman.1055324240.8465.python-list@python.org> <GuXFa.127539$g92.2947285@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <slrnbenpgb.10t.smulloni@bracknell.smullyan.org>

In article <GuXFa.127539$g92.2947285 at news2.tin.it>, Alex Martelli wrote:
><posted & mailed>
> 
> Beni Cherniavsky wrote:
> 
>> I have a university shell account with 10MB quota (most of it filled
>> by mail).  At last they've installed python 2.2 (they forgot curses,
>> sockets and some other nice modules but never mind ;).  Now I'm
>> installing some modules, notably docutils, under my home directory and
>> it takes even more of my quota...
>> 
>> Is there some pure-python way to use zip imports in Python 2.2 so I
>> can save space by compressing the installed modules?
> 
> You might kludge something up by using your site.py (or the like) to
> substitute a customized __import__ wrapping the normal built-in one --
> your customized __import__ might look into the relevant zipfiles'
> directories, extract the needed modules into some /tmp subdirectory
> suitably created and inserted in your sys.path, then delegate to the
> real-builtin __import__.  There are cleaner ways but you may not need
> generality enough -- perhaps this kludge, perfected experimentally
> for your specific and rather peculiar needs, might suffice.

To save yourself some coding, you could use the vfs importer in
SkunkWeb.  To use it you need the vfs package available at

  http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/skunkweb/skunkweb/pylibs/vfs/

or in the skunkweb tarball (actually, sourceforge's viewcvs seems to
be borked at the moment) and Gordon MacMillan's iu.py, which is
available at ../iu.py relative to the above, among other places.

Then you need to do something along these lines:

  import vfs.importer
  # install the import hook
  vfs.importer.install()
  # create a virtual filesystem that is backed with a zip file.
  # if you have multiple archives, you could create a MultiFS
  # and mount various other fses at mount points on it.
  vfs.VFSRegistry['foo']=vfs.ZipFS('/home/me/myzip.zip')
  import sys
  sys.path.append('vfs://<foo>/path/to/my/libs')
  # you should now be able to use the import hook
  import MyZippyModule

I haven't tested this particular example, but I doubt that it contains
more than two or three fundamental errors!  

You can also import from various other sources, of course, by means of this hook.

Cheers,

Jacob Smullyan



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Jun 10 13:12:58 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:12:58 -0400
Subject: Rudeness with names
References: <M6icneVATOpIWn6jXTWcrg@comcast.com>
 <mailman.1055194463.17365.python-list@python.org>
 <bc3ong$i2h$1@panix2.panix.com>
 <mailman.1055244679.25761.python-list@python.org>
 <bc4p33$pp0$1@panix3.panix.com>
 <mailman.1055255001.19136.python-list@python.org>
 <2259b0e2.0306100912.8946854@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aGh5+kKkXope092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|> >> [Aahz didn't like me calling anonymous posters "anonymous cowards"]
|> >>- anonymous posters
|> >>- top-posting
|> >>- broken quoting
|I have seen Gerhard using "anonymous cowards" before and liked
|the joke. I didn't imagine it could be taken seriously as an offence.

I didn't think the "anonymous coward" was meant in a bad way.  But I
-do- think it kinda misses the nature of the medium.  On /.  (and
similar webboards, but that's the one where the term comes from), you
actually -can- write posts with no return address or identifying info.

Usenet is just different:  EVERY poster has a From:  field in their
header.  So the idea of an AC is misguided.  The closest it comes is
when posters mangle their addresses in a (misguided) effort to stop
spammers from harvesting it.  Those posters are closer to being AC than
are those who just have somewhat unusual netnames.

I know how Aahz feels, FWIW.  I can hardly count the number of times
discussants (mostly on other groups) have slighted my dear old dad Mr.
Lotus, and my sweet mother Ms. Eaters.

Yours, Lulu...

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------





From jkraska at san.rr.com  Thu Jun 19 23:31:31 2003
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:31:31 GMT
Subject: Definition of Aspect Oriented Programming
References: <cb7ba330.0306171854.53378bcf@posting.google.com> <8csIa.133$rN.2282@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <1pv4fvsv2bvmglio3l5be4e9qakim3or4t@4ax.com>

>>     What is aspect oriented programming? 

Dynamic retrofit of classes to support functionality not
anticipated by their designer.

C//




From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jun  4 00:30:25 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 06:30:25 +0200
Subject: nntplib body question
References: <879Da.1139848$uT2.175876@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <m3isrmh3by.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Peter Melchart" <peter at melchart.com> writes:

> is there any way to load only the first x lines of a post body via nntplib?
> with read callbacks or something similar?

To my knowledge, the NNTP protocol does not support such a query. So
regardless of what the API is, you always have to fetch the entire
body, and throw away all lines you don't want.

Now, keeping only the first x lines of a string is certainly possible
in Python.

Regards,
Martin




From h_schneider at marketmix.com  Mon Jun 23 02:25:44 2003
From: h_schneider at marketmix.com (Harald Schneider)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:25:44 +0200
Subject: Python 2.2.3 test_re.py fails with coredump on FreeBSD 5.0, fails also on FreeBSD4.8
References: <2251d03c.0306211009.2596e9fd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bd66h5$o66$00$1@news.t-online.com>

import pre as re

is a practical workaround for most appliacations on the FreeBSD platform.

--Harald


"PieterB" <pieterb at gewis.nl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:2251d03c.0306211009.2596e9fd at posting.google.com...
> Ok,
>
> I had a little look at testing Python 2.2.3 under FreeBSD and
> 5.0. When I use './configure ; make ; make test' Lib/test/test_re.py
> gives a Signal 10 (coredump) on FreeBSD5. The test coredumps because
> of the following test from Lib/test/test_re.py:
>
> <code>
> if verbose:
>     print 'Test engine limitations'
>
> # Try nasty case that overflows the straightforward recursive
> # implementation of repeated groups.
> try:
>     verify(re.match('(x)*', 50000*'x').span() == (0, 50000))
> except RuntimeError, v:
>     print v
> </code>
>
> On FreeBSD 4.8 this test also fails, but doesn't core dump:
> %python2.2.3 test_re.py
> Running tests on re.search and re.match
> Running tests on re.sub
> Running tests on symbolic references
> Running tests on re.subn
> Running tests on re.split
> Running tests on re.findall
> Running tests on re.match
> Running tests on re.escape
> Pickling a RegexObject instance
> Test engine limitations
> maximum recursion limit exceeded
> Running re_tests test suite
> === Failed incorrectly ('(?u)\\w', u'\xc4', 0, 'found', u'\xc4')
>
> Can anybody, give me a clue:
> a) if this is caused by a FreeBSD5.0 issue, or by Python.
>    Can somebody test this on FreeBSD 5.1 or FreeBSD5-CVS?
> b) how can I fix the coredump on FreeBSD 5.0?
> c) what should be done to fix the test on FreeBSD 4.8?
>
> Can this related to the FreeBSD python/zope/zwiki stability problems
> for FreeBSD.  (see http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion200306). Zwiki
> makes heavy use of regular expressions.
>
> I also made some patches to make regrtest.py aware of freebsd4/freebsd5.
> I've put them online at: http://www.gewis.nl/~pieterb/python/bugs-2.2.3/
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> PieterB
>
> -- 
> http://zwiki.org/PieterB





From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jun  3 08:58:36 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 14:58:36 +0200
Subject: Bi-directional communication with external programs?
In-Reply-To: <bbi5if$h3u$1@rznews2.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>
References: <bbi5if$h3u$1@rznews2.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>
Message-ID: <3EDC9B7C.5010404@ghaering.de>

Norbert Nemec wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> can anybody help me on this: I want to communicate bidirectionally with a
> gnuplot session I spawned from python. [...]

Shouldn't http://gnuplot-py.sourceforge.net/ make this unnecessary?

-- Gerhard





From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sat Jun 28 04:44:17 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 10:44:17 +0200
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <bct498$mnjrt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <8da5fvsnidpjtblgfj4484spso2t9e6r95@4ax.com> <bcuqp3$nl9um$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <rt97fv80g2dguti1okoevk3kmvo6oh14vt@4ax.com> <bd17hu$niu1d$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <u7lcfv85lvutqg8tspgua4qc0454gsd2ie@4ax.com> <bd8gsc$pt2lr$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <hi5jfvof9sd32b55c8smgibpufhj0akcdo@4ax.com> <bdchsu$rn1p1$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <bdfhpg$dcl$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bdicl1$strb3$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bdjkki$8dd$1@news.hccnet.nl>

"Cousin Stanley" <CousinStanley at hotmail.com> wrote:

>    Edited version of screensaver.py ....
>
>        http://fastq.com/~sckitching/Python/scr_av.py
>
>I'm sure you will hate it,
>but it's much easier for me to read ....

On the contrary, I am very glad someone reads my code and make changes
to it, for better or worse! The more "eyeball" inspection code gets,
the more chances it has into evolving into something better, even if
sometimes newer versions of the code are worse than earlier versions.
It works like a genetic algorithm improving ones code snippets :-)

The other thing is that while using Python it seems to be common to
read ones previous code and discover that code from only a few months
ago would be done very differently now. For example my screensaver
module imports a "sequencer.py" file that could now be rewritten in
probably a fourth of the number of lines, because someone on c.l.py
here made a comment on a newer version of it that was already half the
number of lines of "sequencer.py". Also the "Transformer" class in the
screensaver needlessly recomputes a lot of things at every call that
could be done during initialization, later versions of this class are
doing this better.

My personal observation is that *everything* I write in Python is a
candidate for improvement in only a few months time because of my
changing perspectives on the matter. For another perspective on the
"lulu" code for example, try this :

    trans = [string.lower(chr(i)) for i in range(256)]
    for i in range(256):
        if not trans[i] in string.letters: trans[i] = ' '
    trans = ''.join(trans)

I think this is both a line or so shorter than the original code and
is probably also a bit clearer. Because IMO everything written in
Python is improved sooner or later -according to how many people look
at it- I expect *this* code fragment to be updated once again soon. 

This peculiar aspect of Python (and probably other high level
languages) is probably caused by the fact that Python code comes
closer to ones thoughts than other code, and -at least for me-
thoughts are the most volatile elements in the world.

So better get used to it (if your experience is anything like mine of
course) and don't let yourself be distracted by the code-reusers,
unit-testers, and static typers that are still trying to get a grip on
this elusive aspect of Python coding.

Anton








From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Jun  4 18:29:32 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 00:29:32 +0200
Subject: Not getting all keys in FieldStorage (Multipart form data)
In-Reply-To: <3EDDF63D.88366C54@hotmail.com>
References: <mailman.1054718887.18403.python-list@python.org> <3EDDDF00.3070104@mxm.dk> <3EDDF63D.88366C54@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <DnuDa.5630$Jp3.200890@news010.worldonline.dk>

Alan Kennedy wrote:

> The CGI "spec" specifies two different mechanisms for providing access to the
> two different types of query data. URI query data, after the "?", should be made
> available in the "QUERY_STRING" environment variable, whereas POSTed or PUT form
> data should be made available on standard input. There is no specification of
> what to do when both forms of data are specified, and therefore no guidance on
> what the cgi.py module should do.
> 
> http://hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu/cgi/env.html
> 
> Best to follow the simple rules stated than try to interpret situations outside
> the explicitly stated rules.


I would also suspect it to have different behaviours with different 
enctypes. The IIS at least acts a bit differently when you try and 
upload files with enctype="multipart/form-data".

You need to read the form as binary data, and once you have done that 
you can no longer get the QUERY_STRING. It simply dissapears.

It would also be a bit of luck if an undefined situation was implemented 
the same way in all browsers and webservers.

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M Rasmussen, Denmark

http://www.futureport.dk/
Fremtiden, videnskab, skeptiscisme og transhumanisme




From yserrano at cdr.ethz.ch  Mon Jun 23 11:53:52 2003
From: yserrano at cdr.ethz.ch (Yves Serrano)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:53:52 +0200
Subject: non blocking named pipes
Message-ID: <3ef72290$0$20050$fb624d75@newsspool.solnet.ch>

hi

I have a problem with named pipes....
I searched in the web, but don't found any working solution....

My Problem is that I have a pipe (/temp/pipe) where sometimes some data 
ist written into, but not very often.
I try to write a python script that opens the pipe and gets the data if 
its there. I no data is there the script
should not block, it should immediately exit without data.

How to do that?

I'm using python 2.2 on linux

regards yves




From rajarshi at presidency.com  Tue Jun 10 11:18:46 2003
From: rajarshi at presidency.com (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:18:46 -0400
Subject: isFloat: Without Exception-Handling
References: <ama6nt$n6i$06$1@news.t-online.com> <pan.2002.09.18.11.40.50.766802.29524@presidency.com> <%82i9.1366$bh1.943@fe03>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.09.18.13.18.06.319534.29524@presidency.com>

On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:47:40 -0400, Steve Holden wrote:

> "Rajarshi Guha" <rajarshi at presidency.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2002.09.18.11.40.50.766802.29524 at presidency.com...
>> On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:41:47 -0400, Thomas Guettler wrote:
>>
>> > Hi!
>> >
>> > Is there a way to write the following method without using
>> > exceptions?
>> >
>> > def isFloat(string):
>> >      is_float=1
>> >      try:
>> >          float(string)
>> >      except:
>> >          is_float=0
>> >      return is_float
>> >
>> > print isFloat("asdf") # --> 0
>> > print isFloat("0.1")  # --> 1
>>
>>
>> def isFloat(string):
>>   if type(string) == type(1.0):
>>     return 1
>>   else
>>     return 0
>>
>> This should do what you want without exceptions
> 
> I doubt that VERY much. Please test your code before submitting, or
> ensure you note it wasn't tested ...
> 
>>>> def isFloat(s):
> ...   if type(s) == type(1.0):
> ...     return 1
> ...   else:
> ...     return 0
> ...
>>>> isFloat("banana")
> 0
>>>> isFloat("1.2")
> 0

If its called as isFloat(1.2) it works. 
(My idea was that it would called with a variable and not a literl)




From Henk  Mon Jun 23 04:18:04 2003
From: Henk (Henk)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:18:04 GMT
Subject: Newbie: using the parser from PyExpat/sgmlop
Message-ID: <3ef6b6f4.1558250671@news.skynet.be>

Hi,

I want to use the XML parser from PyExpat and/or sgmlop. I have
installed PyXML 0.8.2. I want to parse an XML file into a DOM-tree,
like the DOM-tree in Document() from minidom.py.

This may be a stupid question, but as I am a newbie: can anyone help
me out how I can force Python to use the parser from PyExpat or
sgmlop?

Thanks,

Henk



From janezgd at email.si  Sun Jun 22 04:09:36 2003
From: janezgd at email.si (Miki)
Date: 22 Jun 2003 01:09:36 -0700
Subject: Zlib dictionary
References: <d75d795f.0306210032.238abe54@posting.google.com> <Bl2Ja.577$6N.62049428@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <d75d795f.0306220009.673604e3@posting.google.com>

Thank you, but this is not what I had in mind. I'm new to Python and I
forgot that there are also dictionaryes in Python.

What I had in mind was the dictionary that Zlib builds during the
compression. I would like to build a dictionary like this and then
compress some other texts with this dictionary as the starting
dictionary.

This is confusing... :)

Janez



"Byron Morgan" <lazypointer at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<Bl2Ja.577$6N.62049428 at newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>...
> I haven't used Zlib, but it looks as though it is at least somewhat
> possible.
> 
> >>> import zlib
> >>> data = {'Name':'Spam','Pet':'ex-Parrot'}
> >>> dataz = zlib.compress(repr(data))
> >>> eval(zlib.decompress(dataz))['Name']
>  'Spam'
> >>>
> 
> Byron Morgan
> 
> "Miki" <janezgd at email.si> wrote in message
> news:d75d795f.0306210032.238abe54 at posting.google.com...
> > Hi
> >
> > Is it possible, with the Zlib library in Python, to compress some text
> > data with a dictionary built on some other text? Is it possible to
> > somehow access the dictionary after the compression and reuse it in
> > another compression?
> >
> > Thanky you,
> >
> > Janez



From husalwan at sci.kun.nl  Thu Jun  5 11:16:22 2003
From: husalwan at sci.kun.nl (Husam)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 17:16:22 +0200
Subject: Newbie: How do you enable python scripts in apache server?
Message-ID: <3EDF5EC6.6050704@sci.kun.nl>

Hi,
I have apache server running on redhat 9 and wants to run python scripts
with it. I made a test script test.py and chmod to 777. The script sits
in the root directory of the www-site. The script is this:

#!/usr/bin/python
print "Content-Type: text/plain\n\n"
print "Hello, Python!"

Although the script executes properly in konsole terminal, the problem
is when I try to execute this script in netscape like this:
http://localhost/test.py

the script is showing as plain text.

Can anybody points me to the right direction?

Thanks in advance




From theller at python.net  Wed Jun  4 02:44:04 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 08:44:04 +0200
Subject: calldll
References: <efe87e6e.0306031544.7a6bcbc4@posting.google.com> <3EDD42A6.3D45B60E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <4r36xryj.fsf@python.net>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Vincent L wrote:
> > 
> > I'm searching for the python binary module "calldll.pyd" for python
> > 2.3 (for Win32 platform)? (and the file npstruct.pyd)
> > 
> > Where I can find this file?
> 
> I believe the best answer might be "use ctypes instead".
> 
> You probably found this: http://www.nightmare.com/software.html
> from which you can infer that calldll is not supported any more.
> (I'm not sure that's the case... and of course the source is
> available so you could presumably make it run under Python 2.3
> yourself.)
> 
> On the other hand, http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/
> is the place to go for something that appears to be supported,
> although depending on your needs it may not be quite mature enough
> yet.  It has been described as "experimental" in the past, although
> that label seems to have been removed from the web page...  

I don't label it experimental anymore.  It's a solid module in the sense
that it works and has been from the beginning.

Thomas



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Jun  6 09:50:09 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:50:09 -0500 
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304FE75B3@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Bowen [mailto:ten.sardna at newoB.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 8:17 PM
> 
> phil hunt wrote:
> > On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:17:46 -0400, Reginald Blue 
> <Reginald_Blue at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >>Pupppy Wizzard wrote:
> >>
> >>>Hi. I am an old school programmer looking to modernize my 
> skill set. I
> >>>want to focus on one new language. Should I choose:
> >>>
> >>>VB
> >>>VB.net
> >>>C#
> >>>C++
> >>>Python
> >>>Smalltalk
> >>>J#
> >>>JScript.net
> >>>or Java?
> >>
> >>(Yes, I know this is a troll, but I just wanted to get this in):
> >>
> >>Hi.  I'm an old school woodworker looking to modernize my 
> skill set.  I want
> >>to focus on one new tool.  Should I choose:
> >>
> >>Hammer
> >>Screwdriver (phillips)
> >>Screwdriver (flat head)
> >>Chisel
> >>Rasp
> >>File
> >>Saw
> >>Socket Wrench
> >>Monkey Wrench
> >>or Box Wrench?
> > 
> > 
> > A hammer. 
> > 
> > A hammer is the best tool by far, we should use it for everything, 
> > and throw away all our screwdrivers.
> 
> Ah, you can hammer in screws... albeit not very well.
>

But you can't screw in nails.

:-)

-gca

--
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restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
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la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Jun 24 06:03:33 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:03:33 +0200
Subject: d.keys() and d.values()
Message-ID: <20030624100333.GA2595@nl.linux.org>

Hi,

is it guaranteed that dict(zip(d.keys(), d.values())) == d?
In words, do .keys() and .values() always have the same order? Is
it safe to rely on this?

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
279. If any one by a male or female slave, and a third party claim it,
the seller is liable for the claim.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From mickel at csc.fi  Thu Jun 26 04:12:41 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:12:41 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Standard ways to get union, intersection, difference of lists?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0306261104390.23793-100000@sampo.csc.fi>

Hi!

Are there any standard list methods for getting the intersection and
difference of two lists? (The union is easy ("list1.extend(list2)"),
unless you want it to contain unique values.)

Here is what I would like to have:

list1 = [1,2,3]
list2 = [3,4]

list3 = list1.intersection(list2)
(list3 is now [3])

list3 = list1.difference(list2)
(list3 is now [1,2])

list3 = list2.difference(list1)
(list3 is now [4])

I realize I could quite easily implement this myself, but I was hoping for
a built-in solution.

Cheers,

/Mickel

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi





From tweedgeezer at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 25 22:20:15 2003
From: tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 19:20:15 -0700
Subject: sets.filter?
References: <mailman.1056577245.15021.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <698f09f8.0306251820.46a4ee93@posting.google.com>

Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.1056577245.15021.python-list at python.org>...
> would it be a good idea to add a .filter() method to a set object,
> which behaves like the builtin filter() but resulting in a set?
> I often see myself doing sets.Set(filter(f, someset))... Would this
> be a good addition to sets.Set?

Yes, it'd be a great idea.  filter/map/reduce should've been methods
on sequences from the beginning.

Jeremy



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun 16 22:16:37 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:16:37 -0400
Subject: long-term release schedule?
References: <mailman.1055722646.5049.python-list@python.org> <bclqfb$k6850$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EEE7A05.DEB78BD8@engcorp.com>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" wrote:
> 
> Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) wrote:
> >>From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com]
> >>
> >>>would have to have a nuclear war.
> >
> > He's assuming that everyone would die in such a war. He's forgetting that
>  > the vault dwellers, ghouls, super mutants and deathclaws will still
>  > be around ...
> 
> Unfortunately, all the computers in the world will have
> been wiped out by EMP, so there'll be nothing left for
                    ^^^
Evil Microsoft Power?

(Yes, I know... :-)



From srart at operaxtrashitheremail.com  Fri Jun 20 03:59:10 2003
From: srart at operaxtrashitheremail.com (Ryan)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:59:10 -0500
Subject: Run a linux program through python
References: <bcuddk$m55$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <oprq124wb0bzeuvl@news2.localnetl.com>

A couple of ways, you can just use:
os.system("YOUR OTHER PROGRAM %s"%(AND_ARGUMENTS)
or os.execv(path_to_program, (arguments))#this replaces your program you 
started
or os.spawnv(mode, path_to_other_program, args)# mode will probly be 
P_NOWAIT or P_WAIT, no_wait if it will work fine no matter how many times 
you have it running, wait if you are worried about some kind of collision 
(sound same file may be used more than once, sockets, etc)

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:29:37 +0200, Gunnar Staff 
<gunnaran at stud.math.ntnu.no> wrote:

> I would like ti run a linux program through a python script. Do enyone 
> know the syntax for running a OS program from python?
>
> Assume I'll run
> $ convert fromfile tofile
>
> Gunnar
>



-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Wed Jun 25 12:39:14 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:39:14 +0100
Subject: editing text file
References: <3ef9c81d$0$28231$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
Message-ID: <dqjjfv8vkavm7ri98btd9iienfu7vidrtp@4ax.com>

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:05:53 +0200, ataraxia2500
<messageboardfan1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> is there a function that can search for specific words in a text file (kind
>of like grep) and change them?
>say in my text file there's a line such as:
>[myvalue]=X
>
>and my function would search the line [myvalue] and replace X by Y.
>
>any suggestions?
>
>thanx in advance 

Use a for line in file.readlines() loop and the re module for your
matching.  Though, to be honest, if that's all you want to do then
Python is probably an overkill; there's probably a port of sed for
your platform, whatever platform it is, and I reckon that would be the
appropriate level of tool.



From donald.welch.nospam at hp.com  Fri Jun  6 13:48:46 2003
From: donald.welch.nospam at hp.com (djw)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:48:46 -0700
Subject: Directory & File Monitoring
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306060731.21813c29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3ee0d822@usenet01.boi.hp.com>

Steve wrote:

> Hi;
> 
> I would like to write a python script for windows 2000 that will log
> who/what touches a particular file in a particular directory.
> 
> Is this possible with python alone or do I need to access some Windows
> api( and which one?)?
> 
> Any clues would be appreciated
> 
> Steve

Maybe this would work?

http://sysinternals.com/ntw2k/source/filemon.shtml

Don



From vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in  Thu Jun 26 00:50:06 2003
From: vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in (vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:20:06 +0530
Subject: problem with % operator on format string
In-Reply-To: <20030626020423.GB12627@bobas.nowytarg.pl>; from vald@valis.amber.eu.org on Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 04:04:23AM +0200
References: <20030626020423.GB12627@bobas.nowytarg.pl>
Message-ID: <20030626102006.A27960@cs.unipune.ernet.in>

On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 04:04:23AM +0200, vald at valis.amber.eu.org wrote:
> 
> hello,
> i just subscribed to this list, so first i'd like to greet all of you :)
> i've recently discovered this great language and now i'm coding alot in 
> it. today i ran into some problem with % operator on strings.
> 
> i have some database query, which i want to format nicely. it looks like:
> 
>  query = "select date(xxx, '\%d') from yyy where xxx
>           like '%s%s\%'" % (year, month)
> 
> so it should produce something like that (year=2003, month=06)
> 
>  select date(xxx, '%d') from yy where xxx like '200306%'
> 
> arguments, even if i (as you see) use an escape character '\' before %d. 

use '%%d' instead of '\%d' 

regrads
Vivek Kumar




From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Jun 27 10:56:32 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:56:32 -0500
Subject: How to memoize functions?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330539C8D2@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Chris Reedy [mailto:creedy at mitretek.org] 
> Sent: Viernes, 27 de Junio de 2003 09:19 a.m.
> 
> That's true. Unfortunately, that misses the other half of the
> problem (which, admittedly, I didn't mention) which is that I
> would also like to be able to collect the results of the function,
> which could be complex data structures, as well as the arguments
> (which could be other instances of the same complex structures).
> 
>    Chris
>

So how do you wish to memoize, if you wish for the
results (which are gonna get cached) to be collected?

Is this a long running process?  If it's not, then
I'd say to cache the results which take more than X
seconds to calculate and forget about having the
results collected.

Or, use a shelf instead of a dictionary.

-gustavo

Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
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la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From edvard+web at majakari.net  Mon Jun 23 06:40:00 2003
From: edvard+web at majakari.net (Edvard Majakari)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 13:40:00 +0300
Subject: When is unit-testing bad? [was: Re: does lack of type...]
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com> <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <mailman.1055784208.22718.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1055813915.12726.python-list@python.org> <3EEE7D4C.DA0B3512@engcorp.com> <donn-2FF467.09334917062003@nntp2.u.washington.edu> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com> <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com>

I'm rather interested in (and fond of) unit testing as well as TDD, so I
though to share my opinions. I once discussed TDD with my friend in here,
and the common agreement seemed to be that TDD is not a silver bullet -
often there are types of computational modules that are very hard to unit
test, eg. think of graphical user interfaces or complex systems, where
forking or threading is concerned. 

I tried to think of quick rule when to write unit tests for a module or
not, and I only came up with this: if the whole module works like a
set of functions (may be only one f, of course) where 

1. Input is easily representable as native language data structures or
   combination of those

2. Output is easily representable as native language data structures or
   combination of those

3. Relationship between those two is deterministic


Then I thought that if number of all (obvious) test cases is very large,
it may not be worth it to write unit tests for all of them if the
functions/methods concerned are simple enough.

For example, a software that reads XML and converts certain some XML
snippets to Python data structures may contain very large number of
combinations considering all possible valid XML files, but it may be still
worth the trouble to write unit tests for at least most typical
situations. You can always add more tests later.

I think one of the best things in writing unit tests is how it helps to
avoid doing same mistakes twice. When you encounter a bug, you add
appropriate test case to your test suite and fix it until all tests pass
again. By running unit tests before every release you can be sure that all
known bugs have been corrected (assuming every accepted bug results in new
written test case).

Some people seem to have lukewarm attitude towards unit testing and
TDD. No, TDD is not a silver bullet and neither unit testing nor TDD - or
both combined - can guarantee a 100% bug-free software product, but it
sure helps a lot and is a nice method in addition to many others in an
attempt to design, implement and maintain high-quality software products.

Just my 2 cents,

-- 
# Edvard Majakari		Software Engineer
# PGP PUBLIC KEY available    	Soli Deo Gloria!
One day, when he was naughty, Mr Bunnsy looked over the hedge into Farmer
Fred's field and it was full of fresh green lettuces. Mr Bunnsy, however, was 
not full of lettuces. This did not seem fair.  --Mr Bunnsy has an adventure 



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Sun Jun  1 19:31:26 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 23:31:26 GMT
Subject: Seeking wisdom on URI path parameters.
References: <3ED3C89E.EDD9CEF1@hotmail.com> <Xns938A44B5BFF0CJanC@213.119.4.116> <mailman.1054185463.9513.python-list@python.org> <Xns938B29EA96D52JanC@213.224.134.215> <mailman.1054323820.20888.python-list@python.org> <Xns938C30AB52232JanC@213.224.134.215> <3ED8AF6D.B33E3414@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Xns938EF80B312DJanC@213.119.4.105>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> schreef:

>> Maybe the OP should ask the "pros" at www-talk at w3.org
>> <http://www.w3.org/Addressing/>
> 
> Maybe I'll do that one of these days. I think it is a question worth
> asking and answering.

If you want to be sure, I think that's the best you can do.  :-)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From chppxf1 at NOSPAM_yahoo.com.au  Sun Jun 29 05:01:07 2003
From: chppxf1 at NOSPAM_yahoo.com.au (Charles Handy)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 17:01:07 +0800
Subject: Fast CGI Vs Java Application Servers
Message-ID: <kAxLa.592$_I3.34571@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

How does FastCGI compare against java Apps running in java app servers 
like TomCat, Sun One, WebLogic and WebSphere?  Is there a business case 
for switching from CGI to Java?  Performance? Productivity? Features? 
Object orientation? Code Reuse?

Any opinions?





From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Jun  6 09:58:06 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:58:06 -0500 
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304FE75E4@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Duncan Booth [mailto:duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk]
> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 4:46 AM
> 
> "Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote in 
> news:9HRDa.4706$IR1.570080 at news20.bellglobal.com:
> 
> > # version with sugar
> > def foo() as static,
> >                      synchronized,
> >                      contract(pre,post):
> >         ...do stuff...
> 
> I don't think this quite works as stated.
> Python lets you break a line inside a parenthesised 
> expression or with a continuation character, so it
> seems to me that this proposal would require one of
> the following:
> 
> def foo() as (static,
>               synchronized,
>               contract(pre,post)):
>     pass
> 
> or:
> 
> def foo() as static, \
>              synchronized, \
>              contract(pre,post):
>     pass
>

since it's a tuple, any of the forms is valid.

Has anyone patched the compiler source to do this yet?
Seems like a minor change to the grammar, but I don't have
the source onhand, nor can I download it. :-(

-gca

--
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
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From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Thu Jun 26 09:54:27 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:54:27 +0000
Subject: Python executables?
References: <mailman.1056619905.13226.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EFAFB13.1090506@removeme.free.fr>

Catalin wrote:
> How can I make executables with python?
> I found some utilities that claim they can do something like that like 
> Installer and py2exe but they actualy pack the code in a huge arhive! 
> This solves the problem of giving python programs to users who don't 
> have python but doesn't solve the problem of the source "secrecy" 
> (copyright).
> And the programs also run much slower and become extremely big compared 
> to a normal C++ program for example. I made a test and a 2 programs 
> doing the same thing where 400 KB with C Builder (static linked) and 
> 2.80 MB with python+installer in an arhive packed with upx and 6.9 MB 
> with py2exe(unpacked). And the speed difference was huge.
> So can a python program become a "real" executable(I am refering both to 
> windows and unix platforms)?
> If this is imposible with python is it possible with jpython?
> 

Here you expose 3 different problems :

1/ source "secrecy" (copyright) :
It's the wrong problem. *Any* binary code can be subject to 
reverse-engineering. There are even tools to do this quite easily for 
Java. The right way to protect your property is via copyright and licence.

2/ Size of "packed" programs :
Realize that the pack must include the whole Python interpreter and 
librairies. BTW, I personnaly never used such tools, but I think I 
remember that some of them allow you to specify which parts you really need.

3/ 'Slowness' :
I don't believe that 'packing' the program makes it slower.

Are you sure your Python code is really Pythonic ? There are tips and 
tricks in how to 'optimize' Python code, and it can be very different 
from low-level (C/C++ etc) languages techniques. You may want to have a 
look at :
http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/python/fastpython.html

Now if you really need smallest possible footprint and blazing-fast 
execution speed (which are antagonist needs anyway), and your program is 
about low-level stuff, you may not have choosen the right tool !-)

Bruno




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Jun 18 11:28:14 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:28:14 +0200
Subject: Loop from 'aaaa' to 'tttt' ?
References: <slrnberu4u.khj.lschaps@x11.informatik.uni-bremen.de> <bcmom3$flb$1@news.hccnet.nl> <mailman.1055869985.24055.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcq0lg$gee$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

>> ... 7, 8, 9, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, etc.
>
>A very small modification to the normal base-representation
>algorithm does this:
>
>    def antoniandigits(val, base=10):
>        val = abs(val)
>        digits = []
>        while True:
>            q, r = divmod(val, base)
>            digits.append(r)
>            if not q:
>                break
>            val = q - 1                                 # no "- 1" normally
>        digits.reverse()
>        return digits
>
>Conversely,
>
>    def antonianvalue(string, base=10):
>        digits = list(string)
>        value = 0
>        for digit in digits:
>            value = value*base
>            value = value + ord(digits) - ord('0') + 1  # no "+ 1" normally
>        return value - 1                                # no "- 1" normally

Thanks a lot! I've already refactored it further into two reciprocal
functions: val <==> tuple:

def antoniandigits(val, base=10):
    tup = ()
    while val > -1:  
        tup = (val % base,) + tup
        val = val/base-1
    return tup

def antonianvalue(tup, base=10):
    return reduce(lambda x,y: x*base+y+1,tup,0)-1

>How about "Antonine" instead of "Antonian"?

Tough choice :-( Should I follow my heart and sail after Cleopatra,
resulting in an Antonine wall and having to use roman numerals for
ages, or stay with Octavia and have a loveless life, which however
would make it possible to have Antonians now and which would open up
possibilities for a great magic Celtic Empire?

Anton



From puccio_13 at yahoo.it  Sat Jun 21 20:21:45 2003
From: puccio_13 at yahoo.it (Alessio Pace)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:21:45 +0200
Subject: embedded db in python app?
References: <qRVIa.34337$Fr5.730650@tornado.fastwebnet.it> <qD0Ja.765$BM.602835@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <lP6Ja.34956$Fr5.746597@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

drs wrote:

> "Alessio Pace" <puccio_13 at yahoo.it> wrote in message
> news:qRVIa.34337$Fr5.730650 at tornado.fastwebnet.it...
>> Hi, I wrote a python application which needs to persistently store 2
>> *big* hash maps at the end of its execution and retrieve them when it
>> starts again. Up to now I just used pickle to serialize 2 objects that
>> "encapsulate" those hash maps (and nothing else). I wonder if using an
>> embedded db (but which one??) to store those two hash maps would be
>> faster both in storing and in retrieval.
> 
> 
> if pickle as a concept is working, but it is just too slow, try cPickle
> before changing the strategy too much.  If, however, that is not a good

Fortunately the layers of my app were quite separated so changing how to use
the persistency of that datas required not so long time :-) I tried
BerkeleyDB as suggested by one post above, I am quite happy with it, it
seems to be faster than Pickle in de-serializing but slower in serializing.
Because  my app is more speed tolerant in serialization I am almost
convinced to use a db instead of pickle...

> strategy, then look in to ZODB.  Similar in concept to bsddb (I guess) but
> way cooler for python apps.

...so maybe I will give a try to ZODB as well.

> 
> http://www.amk.ca/zodb/
> 
> -d

Thanks.

-- 
bye
Alessio Pace



From belred1 at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 22 12:26:59 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:26:59 GMT
Subject: xrange
References: <rwkJa.1019010$OV.1115623@rwcrnsc54> <3EF5D5E2.DF5D9FCB@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <nNkJa.72460$sm5.72165@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3EF5D5E2.DF5D9FCB at engcorp.com...
> Bryan wrote:
> >
> > in 2.3, what is the best way to write this:
> >   for i in xrange(100): print 'Hello'
> >
> > i used timeit and it seems that repeat is about 10% faster.
>
> Is such a small performance difference more important to you than
> backwards compatibility?
>
> I would choose "for i in xrange()" still, merely because of the
> number of people still using Python 2.2 and before, but I'm not
> one who cares much about trivial optimizations...
>
> (I realize you might be using 2.3-only features, but I don't think
> that automatically means you should abandon readability, by dumping
> a well-known idiom with a merely possibly-to-become-idiomatic form.)
>
> -Peter

i was trying to think in general terms,  not just a simple 100 iterations.
of course for backwards compatibility xrange wins there.  to me both xrange
and repeat are similarly readable.  i guess i got a bit confused because
python now has two obviously correct way of doing something, and for the
rest of my python life i have to always decide which one to use.






From ofnap at nus.edu.sg  Sun Jun 29 08:42:06 2003
From: ofnap at nus.edu.sg (Ajith Prasad)
Date: 29 Jun 2003 05:42:06 -0700
Subject: AN ENROLMENT PROJECTION PROBLEM
Message-ID: <37ee60c8.0306290442.60be2b57@posting.google.com>

I would appreciate advice on how best to formulate the following
problem in Python. I have originally posted the problem to the J
Programming forum and received a one-line formulation ((#s)
(|.s)&(+/@:*)\ I)! I was wondering what the equivalent Python
formulation would be.

The Problem:

The enrolment E(n) of an institution at the beginning of year n is the
sum of the intake for year n, I(n), and the survivors from the intakes
of previous r years. Thus, if s(1) is the 1-year intake survival rate,
s(2) is the 2-year survival rate, etc, we have:

E(n)= I(n)+I(n-1)*s(1)+ I(n-2)*s(2)+...+I(n-r)*s(r)
E(n+1)= I(n+1)+I(n)*s(1)+I(n-1)*s(2)+... +I(n-r-1)*s(r)
.
.
.
E(n+k)= I(n+k)+I(n+k-1)*s(1)+I(n+k-2)*s(2)+...+I(n+k-r)*s(r)

Given:
(a) the actual intakes for the current and previous r years, I(n),
I(n-1),I(n-2),..,I(n-r), and the planned intakes for the next n+k
years: I(n+1), I(n+2),..., I(n+k), we have the intake vector I =
(I(n-r), I(n-r-1),...,I(n),I(n+1),..., I(n+k)); and
(b) the survival rate vector, s = (1,s(1), s(2),...,s(r))
Find:
The  k*1 enrolment projection column vector, E =
(E(n+1),E(n+2),...,E(n+k)) in terms of a k*(r+1) matrix P (derived
from
I) and the (r+1)*1 column vector, s.

I = P*s

Is there a compact Python representation of the relevant matrix P
where:

P = [I(n+1) I(n) I(n-1).. . I(n-r)
     I(n+2) I(n+1) I(n)...  I(n-r-1)
     .
     .
     I(n+k) I(n+k-1) I(n+k-2)... I(n+k-r)]

Alternatively, a non-matrix formulation of the problem would be
acceptable. Thanks in advance for any suggestions on how to proceeed.



From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Jun 21 13:22:49 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:22:49 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306212024210.2579-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sat, 21 Jun 2003, Alan Kennedy wrote:

>Alan Kennedy wrote:
>
>>>Of course the point remains that XML is hugely resource inefficient for
>>>many problems. But maybe in 5 years we'll have so many terahertz and
>>>gigabytes and megabits-per-sec that we won't care.
>
>Roman Suzi wrote:
>
>> Well, when XML was entering the arena, it promised to _lessen_
>> the burden on telecommunications... Where is that claim now?
>
>I've been "following" XML since seeing Jon Bosak lecture on the subject in May
>1997. I've been subscribed, periodically, to xml-dev and xsl-list, and I don't
>think I've ever heard, read or seen anyone seriously claim that XML would lessen
>the bandwidth used for communicating information. Is that what you meant? 

Yes. Because XML could be received once (as a recordset) and then processed
locally, with further subqueries etc.

>And the same argument could be made about HTML: it is just as resource
>inefficient as XML, perhaps more so. So why is HTML the most widely used
>document format in human history?

Because Microsoft made Outlook Express use HTML for letters by default (and
Netscape too). Oh, yes: spammers like HTML a lot. I do not have figures ready,
but 95 percent emails addressed to me which use HTML are spams.

>If any claims have been made about communications, then I think they would be
>more likely to be made in relation to how much easier it would be to *process*
>XML, compared something like EDI, for example.

Yes, I believe BASIC interpreter is much easier than Ada's one...

>> And one more point: processing of XML is much less
>> reliable than that of ASCII or even simple Python literals.
>
>I have to disagree with that statement. I don't think that a character encoding
>can be compared to XML: for example, XML can be stored in ascii. "Processing"
>ascii is easy, but extracting semantics from an ascii byte stream is harder than
>extracting semantics from XML, i.e. deciding on your tokens, lexing them,
>writing a grammar, translating that grammar to running code that builds data
>structures, etc, etc. Processing simple strings like "2+(2*2)" is easy: what
>about "I would like a deep pan 12-inch pizza with bacon and banana, two portions
>of garlic bread and 2 litres of sparkling mineral water delivered to my house
>please".

He we came to the whole point of having XML. If ASCII text can be compared
with string or list of strings, then XML is like a dict (probably, with
subdicts).

But still I can't imagine that having structured the above sentence will
help to make an order to robotized pizza delivery! I will always fear that
my garlic bread will swim in a mineral water.

XML is pure formal language and its applications are sometimes overdesigned.

For example, the above mentioned 2+(2*2) could be as simple as

>>> 2+(2*2)
6

or very complex, requiring put everything into XML and applying XSLT to it to
get the answer. BTW, I have almost the same pessimism toward OOrientation.
Some time ago I came across a program (I shall not name it here because it's
quite a useful program and I do not want to scare it's author) which was very
object oriented. I needed to make changes to it because I wanted one of it's
functions to be dumbed down and be faster. I managed to do it dropping many
classes. Some time ago I needed another version to output some parameter
interesting to me. Luckily, the program runs only once per file, so after
tracing class structure to understand where can I return needed value, I just
added a global variable which I fill at one location and output in the other
location! And now I want to have a dumbed down version of another function of
the program: oh no... I better rewrite it in simple structural/modular way: it
will be much shorter, much easier to "refacture".

Again, is it me who refuses to see how wonderful and intuitive OO technology
was to make my life happier? Or is it misuse of technology?

Another example is about Linux. Slackware had simple and strightforward init
script(s). Now, Look at RedHat initscripts. No wonder it takes so much time to
boot RedHat Linux... And if I needed to have, say, some network added in
Slackware, I put ifconfig into place where I needed it. In RedHat I am at loss
and I put it to rc.local (which get executed last).

I know why all that fancy was needed (to allow separation of services and
easier automated add/remove), but what they did is IMHO overkill...

So, in my opinion, XML is far from KISS principle.

>And can you point me to code/programs/utilities to parse python literals in
>Java, VB, lisp, smalltalk, javascript, ocaml, etc, etc? Character encoded python
>literals don't travel as well as XML, as of today anyway.
>
>And processing XML is completely reliable, as long as your XML tools library is
>compliant with standards. 

>Non-compliant tools don't last long, because people
>stop using them.
>
>Now, it is definitely the case that there is a lot of "XML" out there that isn't
>really XML at all: it's XML structures with broken HTML embedded inside. 

This means they are using broken tools to generate such XML... XML is fragile.
Much more fragile than ASCII text. Yes, XML serves more complex tasks,
but does it really need to be so unreliable?
 
>> The reliablity is what worries me more. It's too easy to get into some
>> trap (I remember talks here or in XML-SIG when it was discussed
>> what is better None or "" for representing namespace).
>
>But the latter is a minor, python-specific, concern, and one that was
>satisfactorily resolved relatively quickly, by the excellent PyXML people
>(thanks Martin von L et al :-). Once that empty namespace gets serialised into
>an XML byte stream, and then further processed in another language, the semantic
>travels seamlessly to other languages. XML travels generally much more reliably,
>across the wide range of available platforms, than any other non-trivial
>data/document representation.

It may travel, but I do not think this helps. If robotized pizza
delivery doesn't have a recipe for sparkling mineral water, it will
give ParsingError. Because you thought it has it and in reality
it doesn't. So what is the advantage to have flexible transport
if target isn't that flexible (semantically, of course)?
If my browser do not understand blink, what it is supposed to do
instead? Drop the whole text? Do not blink it? Give a warning?
Segmentation fault?

>> So far all arguments pro-XML in this thread are like "XML is good
>> because X, M and L are already here" (be it SGML, javascript, Java,
>> developers expertise or whatever). But I wonder if there are pure
>> technical merits of XML itself apart
>> from it being involved. 
>
>Well, I suppose where you and I differ is that I believe that something being
>easy for ordinary people to understand and work with *is* a technical merit.

Hmmm... XML document is a tree with marked nodes and ordered vertices.
But is XML a best markup format for representing a tree in a plain text?
Yes, we are all accustomed to it so we think it's its technical merit.

>I think that if we are to progress further, you would have to define what you
>mean by "technical merit".

Technical merits could be different:
1- simplicity of processing 
2- easiness for "ordinary people to understand and work with"
3- flexibility and power of expression

>> XML is not well-based scientifically (like RDBMS)
>
>Can you give an example of something comparable to XML that is "well-based
>scientifically"? I don't understand what you mean.

Relational databases are based on well-defined set theory. Contemporary
digital computers and circuitry are based on mathematical logic. Programming
languages - lambda calculus, Turing machines - also well known objects.  
Regular expressions correspond to grammars and to finite automata (also
criss-cross researched things).

But what about XML? Where can I find an algebra of XML? Or a "truth table" of
XSLT? The same problem I have with OOP. What well-established math theory is
behind OOP? Gurus' opinions? Maybe XML and OOP aren't science at all
but special kind of literature. The first one soap opera and the second...
science fiction.

>> XML for ? is like CSV for a RDBMS
>> 
>> However, I have no idea what the question stands for...
>
>RDBMS is a very broad term. Try comparing something like SQLLite or MS Access on
>a LAN with a group of large multi-processor, multi-machine, data-replicating,
>distributed (across time zones) transaction processing Sybase servers, for
>example.
>
>XML database technology has a long way to go before it challenges RDBMS as a
>reliable, fast and powerful storage mechanism for information. But there are
>products, projects and languages out there. Compared to your statement above,
>perhaps statements like these could be made
>
> o XML is to a DOM as CSV is to an array
> o XML is to Apache Xindice as CSV is to a MySQL server.
> o XML is to an XML-based content server as CSV is to an RDBMS + a raft of
>content->relational table mappings.
> o Xpath/XQuery/XPointer is to an XML repository as SQL is to an RDBMS
>
>For me, the most important aspect of XML is as a social phenomenon, not a
>technical one.

That is why I wrote the initial message: because I want to understand the
society of XMLists and learn. 


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Jun  2 10:59:02 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:59:02 -0500
Subject: Detect hung apps spawned from python
In-Reply-To: <3edb494b$0$12997$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
References: <3edb494b$0$12997$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20030602145902.GB32639@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 01:55:39PM +0100, David Stubbs wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a python app that builds a list of all subdirectories from the
> current directory, and then in turn runs a 'test.py' script from within each
> of these directories. I currently do this using os.system(). Is there any
> easy way of detecting apps that crashed, and terminating them if so? Ideally
> being able to set a time-out to wait for the application to finish would be
> good.
> 
> I think I could do it using CreateProcess, but, well, it just seems like
> overkill and that there'll be a much simpler method somewhere.

As far as I know, you'll have to use the Windows-specific APIs if you
want to do something like "kill this process if it takes longer than 30
seconds".  On Unix, you would use fork+exec and os.kill(), but as far as
I know these don't translate to the Windows world.

Jeff




From max-resume at alcyone.com  Mon Jun 23 20:53:53 2003
From: max-resume at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:53:53 -0700
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com>

Dan Bishop wrote:

> But how many people use \r at the end of filenames?  Or are even aware
> that they can?
> 
> Even if it isn't a bug, it's a feature that causes more harm than
> good.

It's simply an end-of-line issue.  The "bug" here is that DOS chose to
use CR LF as the end-of-line terminator.  (Mac gets even fewer points,
since it chose to do deliberately do smoething even more different.) 
This has nothing to do with Unix, it's an inherent difference between
platforms.  The platforms are not the same; if you pretend like they are
then you'll continually run into problems.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I go out with actresses because I'm not apt to marry one.
\__/  Henry Kissinger



From alanh at unc.edu  Sat Jun  7 19:11:29 2003
From: alanh at unc.edu (Alan Hoyle)
Date: 7 Jun 2003 23:11:29 GMT
Subject: Kerberos authentication for IMAP?
Message-ID: <bbtrf1$dbiin$1@ID-58778.news.dfncis.de>

I recently discovered IMAP Spam Begone, a python client script which
accesses IMAP mailboxes, downloads mails, runs them through a local
spam filter, and moves them to a Remote spam folder if appropriate.
http://www.rogerbinns.com/isbg/

The authentication method it uses is standard username/password, and
my local IMAP server doesn't support SSL.  However, it does support
Kerberos 4.

I was wondering if it would be possible to modify the script so that
it could use my Kerberos tokens instead.  I glanced at the
documentation for the python IMAP client library:
   http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/imap4-objects.html 
and that seems to indicate that the authenticate function won't work.

| authenticate(func) 
|          Authenticate command -- requires response processing. This is
| currently unimplemented, and raises an exception.

However, glancing at the actual source code in my python subdirectory
(/usr/lib/python2.2/imaplib.py), and found the following code snippet:

    def authenticate(self, mechanism, authobject):
        """Authenticate command - requires response processing.

        'mechanism' specifies which authentication mechanism is to
        be used - it must appear in <instance>.capabilities in the
        form AUTH=<mechanism>.

        'authobject' must be a callable object:

                data = authobject(response)

        It will be called to process server continuation responses.
        It should return data that will be encoded and sent to server.
        It should return None if the client abort response '*' should
        be sent instead.
        """
        mech = mechanism.upper()
        cap = 'AUTH=%s' % mech
        if not cap in self.capabilities:
            raise self.error("Server doesn't allow %s authentication." % mech)
        self.literal = _Authenticator(authobject).process
        typ, dat = self._simple_command('AUTHENTICATE', mech)
        if typ != 'OK':
            raise self.error(dat[-1])
        self.state = 'AUTH'
        return typ, dat

Which seems a bit more promising than the how can I set this up to use
my Kerberos tokens or TGT?  I don't want it to generate entirely new
tokens on its own.....

-alan

-- 
    Alan Hoyle  -  alanh at unc.edu  -  http://www.alanhoyle.com/
      "I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
                 Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate. 



From kendear at nospam.com  Tue Jun  3 03:44:35 2003
From: kendear at nospam.com (Kendear)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 07:44:35 GMT
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
Message-ID: <3EDC51DE.6040502@nospam.com>

I don't like the fact that you can say in
Python

     a = b = 1

but you can't say

     a = (b = 1)

which is perfectly fine in C or Perl.

In those cases, "=" is just an operator
with associativity from right to left...
so adding parenthesis is not a problem.
But in Python, it would give an error.

 >>> a = b = 1
 >>> a = (b = 1)
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

I think if a language supports a = b = 1
then that means  "b = 1"  returns a value
of 1, which can be assigned to any variable.
But it seems like it is only a syntactic sugar
in Python?

if Python supports   1 < a < 10
then maybe it is also just syntactic sugar.
Other language might take it as  (1 < a) < 10
which is just the boolean 0 or 1 less than 10
which is always true.

 >>> a = -1
 >>> 1 < a < 10
0
 >>> (1 < a) < 10
1

so in Python, we can't just add parenthesis
to multiple =  and can't add parenthesis
arbitrarily to multiple  <, >, ==, etc.






From thanks200 at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 16 00:02:24 2003
From: thanks200 at hotmail.com (Tom Hanks)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 21:02:24 -0700
Subject: Python class __init__(mandatory arguments?)
References: <bcitu2$jrrv8$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <6152d0a0.0306152002.4d5a37b0@posting.google.com>

Lee John Moore <leej at dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message news:<bcitu2$jrrv8$1 at ID-129053.news.dfncis.de>...
> Just for confirmation really: When I create a custom class, is
> it *really* true that def __init__() arguments can only ever be
> optional?  Eg:

Mr Moore,

No. In my experience __init__ arguments without default values
(or using the *args, **kwargs idiom) are required and not optional,
exactly like all other functions.

> 
> class MyClass:
> 	param1 = None
> 	param2 = None
> 	def __init__(self, param1, param2):
> 		param1 = self.param1
> 		param2 = self.param2
> 
> myinstance1 = MyClass()
> myinstance2 = MyClass("Hello", "World")
> [snip]
> 
> I'm really unhappy that myinstance1 is allowed.  ;-)

I would be unhappy too.                                 :-(
Luckily running your code under 2.2.1 I get a traceback :-)
  Traceback (most recent call last):
  ...
  TypeError: __init__() takes exactly 3 arguments (1 given)

I hope this info leaves you less confused than when you started...

Tom.



From noreply at babiesonline.com  Thu Jun 26 10:44:12 2003
From: noreply at babiesonline.com (noreply)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:44:12 -0400
Subject: Application
Message-ID: <200306261444.h5QEiCd01770@ns1.netlinkrg.com>

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From rbsharp at gmx.de  Tue Jun 17 11:49:30 2003
From: rbsharp at gmx.de (Richard Sharp)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:49:30 +0200
Subject: HL7 servers in Python?
References: <pan.2003.06.16.15.29.22.27309@gmx.de> <mailman.1055452471.12090.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1055783309.20675.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.17.15.49.29.710878@gmx.de>

Hello,
I'll keep this general since not everyone is interested.

1. Whilst receiving the messages I don't do any parseing at all. Breaking
down HL7 is really for all practical purposes trivial. It is a collection
of separators, one for fields and one for components and so on. So you can
get the data out of a HL7-Message basically using split. I don't parse the
data until I can process it and that is done in a separate process. This
has always proved to be a good thing, because I can stop the processing
and correct something without worrying about data loss.

What does vary is the packaging of the data, but the basic pattern is some
start character (usually chr(11)), data consisting of records separated
usually with chr(13) and then an end character (chr(28)) and a stop
character (chr(13)). But this can vary from system to system. What
constitutes an ACK or a NAK is also quite different at times


2. I am (was) stuck with Python 1.5.2 because I have to link Python
against a static unify database library and bind in some external
C-Routines. This was not quite trivial and I had to play about with SWIG
for a while, but now its routine. I mostly confused my self with Python
2.2 and had to understand the build process. At the end my interpreter
still crashed, and I despaired, but the reason was a bug relating to
shared memory segments in the database library. But it is still an issue
updating ca 25 to 30 Installations with 2 MB of Python, many of which
still only have a modem.
By the way, an earlier version of Twisted blocked SCO Machines. After a
while nobody could log in any more. I installed the newer version and the
problem went away.

3. I use Twisted to serve a variety of transport needs. Basically the
Information I send or receive is Ascii data, only I and the receiver
really know what is in there. What we do have to agree on how the data is
to be transported. Whether over sockets, per FTP or a mounted
NFS-directory. If the means of transport is not available, then I need to
be able to keep retrying until I succeed. I need to be able to serve
several sources and several destinations, each of which can be
individually configured. I could be receiving data over NFS and sending
using sockets.

For Sockets I "hang" them in to the select loop. I differentiate according
to direction. Incoming data is handled by calling the TCPListen method of
the application und outgoing data by creating an instance of tcp.Client.
With tcp.Client I had some difficulties handling connections that come and
go. If the connection was dropped I had to delete the Client and recreate
it and then reestablish the connection

FTP and NFS are dealt with by quite simply creating a Job Manager that is
repeatedly called using reactor.callLater(5,<JobManager>). The Job Manager
maintains a queue of objects where it repeatedly calls generic methods,
like put and get.

There may be better ways of doing things, but it worked and has been
working for some time now.

Richard Sharp

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:05:46 +0000, Moshe Zadka wrote:

> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, "Richard Sharp" <rbsharp at gmx.de> wrote:
> 
>> I have one Pathology Unit that does work for two hospitals and
>> communicates with two hospital systems. With Twisted I basically
>> subclass protocol.Factory and implement the necessary submethods.
> 
> You probably also needed to subclass protocol.Protocol to actually parse
> HL7, right?
> 
>> It is a little daunting at first and there was at the time (about 2
>> years ago) when no usable documentation worth speaking of was
>> available. I am also stuck at the moment with Twisted 0.18.0, because
>> it runs with Python 1.5.2, and I had trouble getting Python >= 2.0
>> running on the all the Unixes I had to get it running on. In the
>> meantime, I think I've got that under control.
> 
> Ugh. Current Twisted (1.0.5) needs Python 2.2. Python is pretty
> portable, I've managed to build it (back when I needed to) on pretty
> wierd unices. Sometimes you want to install gcc because the compiler
> that comes with the system is damaged :(
> 
> If you are having serious problems building Python, you're better off
> asking here (giving all the details about your platform) than using
> Twisted 0.18 (which was not a horribly good version, IIRC -- I kinda
> liked 0.15.5 I think).
> 
>> If you're interested in looking at the programms I will have to ask the
>> company I developed the software for, but the complete program is only
>> ca. 800 Lines and covers 4 Low Level Protocols.
> 
> If you get permission to put them up, that would be even better :) As a
> Twisted developer, I keep hoping that people will implement Protocols
> for Twisted as the standard way of having Python support a network
> protocol (rather than, say, asyncore) but except for ldaptor, I don't
> think there have been many 3rd party protocols.



From Dan.Pop at cern.ch  Wed Jun  4 13:10:20 2003
From: Dan.Pop at cern.ch (Dan Pop)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 17:10:20 GMT
Subject: [OT] Re: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <ff82ae1b.0306040559.26b314f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbl95s$dbd$8@sunnews.cern.ch>

In <ff82ae1b.0306040559.26b314f7 at posting.google.com> ruse at webmail.co.za (goose) writes:

>PupppyWizzard at glay.org (Pupppy Wizzard) wrote in message news:<8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8 at posting.google.com>...
>
><snipped>
>
>woodworking ???????

You see, he's obviously not earning his life as a professional programmer,
so this might be a clue about his real profession...

Dan :-)
-- 
Dan Pop
DESY Zeuthen, RZ group
Email: Dan.Pop at ifh.de



From ben at transversal.com  Fri Jun  6 09:09:20 2003
From: ben at transversal.com (ben at transversal.com)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 06:09:20 -0700
Subject: sandboxing python code
References: <fd3e3161.0306030111.39ea5ce6@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054632844.16009.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fd3e3161.0306060509.732f9161@posting.google.com>

Moshe Zadka <m at moshez.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.1054632844.16009.python-list at python.org>...
> On 3 Jun 2003, ben at transversal.com (ben at transversal.com) wrote:
> 
> > I've recently (6 months or so) been converted to Python, and so have
> > become an avid reader of this newgroup. One thing that has been brought up
> > occasionally by other people, but never has really been answered
> > satisfactorily is the problem of running untrusted code.
> 
> How is the answer "you can't" not satisfactory?
> 
> I'll note that even in Java, where a lot of energies and quite a lot
> programming hours has been spent on this kind of stuff, it would be hard
> to accomplish. IIRC, Java's sandboxing had quite a few bugs itself, and
> moreover has limited protection against allocating too much memory (you
> can tell the JVM not to let the process allocate over a certain amount,
> but not, AFAIK, by sandbox) and against CPU-intensive DoS attacks -- and
> that's the best technology.
> 
> My suggestion is to try to find a way where you can handle the overhead
> for separating the tasks into separate processes, and then use your OS's
> sandboxing capabilities. This easily lets you take care of such things
> as CPU and memory limitations, and with more advanced operating systems
> (like FreeBSD's jails, NSA's SELinux and chroot()) you can achieve more
> control. As an extreme measure, you may consider something like
> User-Mode-Linux, which gives you (relatively) cheap virtualization of
> the operating system.
> 
> Of course, you can still use the fact that it is Python on both sides
> of the fence by using remote-object protocols to communicate -- such
> as Pyro or Twisted's Perspective Broker.
> 
> Just like in real life -- if you don't trust someone, don't invite them
> into your house and try to keep an eye on them, it's just too hard. Communicate
> with them by phone, so that their opportunity to harm you is limited. Of
> course, they may shout into your phone, or try to overload your stack
> by sending you malformed objects. But it is is much easier to defend against 
> these kind of attacks.
> 
> Yes, Java and Flash are treated as "code you can run untrusted", but this
> is just wrong. It's fairly easy, for example, to crash most browsers with
> these, which is a fairly efficient DoS attack :)

Thanks for all the replies. I will have to have a think about it.
At the moment I am experimenting using twisted to both control the
lifetime of sub processes and to communicate with them. This way I can
use chroot and resource.setrlimit to hopefully isolate the bogus code

Thanks again

Ben
---



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Jun 15 15:39:48 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 20:39:48 +0100
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com> <velvur9c1nq30e@corp.supernews.com> <87el1whkhc.fsf@pobox.com> <ven3t69lehqs2b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <87fzmbqge3.fsf@pobox.com>

"Edward K. Ream" <edreamleo at charter.net> writes:

> > I don't understand.  Could you elaborate?  For example, could you
[...]
> My old way was pretty stupid: I would develop Leo using Leo to edit Leo's
> sources, LeoPy.leo.  Then I would _exit_ the copy of Leo that was editing
> LeoPy.leo.  So if there were any problems that prevented Leo from running I
> would have to correct those problems either using a backup copy of Leo or
> using Idle.  Not only that, but LeoPy.leo is a big file, and it would take
> 15-20 seconds to reload it.
[...]

I see.  Been there, sort of.

(spent ages slowly being driven nuts by PyQt, which took 40 seconds or
so to start a tiny script on a slow laptop of a few years ago -- until
I recompiled my kernel, when everything X windows-related sped up by a
factor of five, for reasons I don't understand)


> window open that is running Python in -i mode, and I would have to close the
[...]

Hey, I didn't know about -i mode.  I've been using Python three years,
maybe I should read the manpage... :-)


John



From member31018 at dbforums.com  Thu Jun 12 17:15:30 2003
From: member31018 at dbforums.com (DB_RobertP)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 21:15:30 +0000
Subject: Glue code
Message-ID: <2996386.1055452530@dbforums.com>

What systems do people use to easily make C/C++ code visible to Python?
I'm currently checking out Swig, but I've heard others mentioned. If
anyone has any experience with these systems, could you recommend one to
look into? Also, any other general pointers when trying to extend C/C++
code to python sctipts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Robert

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Sat Jun  7 10:24:09 2003
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy)
Date: 7 Jun 2003 07:24:09 -0700
Subject: Hardware take on software testing.
References: <2ae25c6b.0306060450.78e988f9@posting.google.com> <3EE0CF2B.57F474E4@engcorp.com> <2ae25c6b.0306061721.148300a@posting.google.com> <3EE14F0A.3D1E1887@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <2ae25c6b.0306070624.141e4b42@posting.google.com>

First i'd like to state that I too like the ideas mentioned in XP and
TDD. If the HW design ideas are outside current software methodologies
then I'd like to debate whether adding them would be benificial.

my comments are interspersed in Peters mail below...

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3EE14F0A.3D1E1887 at engcorp.com>...
> Paddy McCarthy wrote:
> > 
> > Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3EE0CF2B.57F474E4 at engcorp.com>...
> > > ... a new approach to design, testing, and coding, called Test-Driven
> > > Development (TDD).
> > 
> > On TDD when do you know you are done?
> 
> Oh, *good* question!  <grin>
> 
> > In the Hardware development process we graph the number of bugs found
> > over time and end up with an S curve, we also set coverage targets
> > (100 percent statement coverage for executable statements is the
> > norm), and rather like the TDD approach of software, some teams have
> > dedicated Verification engineers who derive a verification spec from
> > the design spec and write tests for the design to satisfy this,
> > (independantly).
> 
> With TDD, only one
> test at a time is even written, let alone passed by writing new code.
> You would "never" write two tests at the same time since you wouldn't
> necessarily know whether you needed the second test until you had
> written the first.
If I remember correctly, XP advocates a very close working
relationship with the customer with quick customers feedback on
program development.
> 
> > If TDD uses no random directed generation, then don't you tend to test
> > strictly the assumed behaviour?
> 
> Bob Martin wrote "The act of writing a unit test is more an act of 
> design than of verification.  It is also more an act of documentation 
> than of verification.  The act of writing a unit test closes a remarkable 
> number of feedback loops, the least of which is the one pertaining to 
> verification of function."
I was trying to learn more about how these tests are written. Writing
tests is better than not writting them, but I was trying to show a
possibly different way of writing tests, to the way that the program
will be implimented, hopefully complimentary, and allowing you
(sometimes, with the right set of random variables/constraints), to
explore more of those corner cases. You might think of a random
directed tests as generating a spray of test values for your program,
with the constraints controlling the width of the spray, and direction
of the hose.
We can find hard to get at bugs with this technique in HW design,
that's why I'd also like it added to the software arsenal.

> 
> Let me go back to the "graph the number of bugs" thing you mention above.
> If you are working in a world where that concept holds much meaning, 
> you might have to change gears to picture this: with XP and TDD, you
> generally expect to have *no* bugs to graph. 
> 
> Now fast-forward to months later, when you have literally hundreds of
> little tests, each one having driven the development of a few lines of
> code.  You have effectively 100% code coverage.  In fact, you probably
> have tests which overlap, but that's a good thing here.  Now you make
> a tiny mistake, which traditionally would not be noticed until "test 
> time", way down at the end of the project when the QA/verification people 
> get their hands on your code.  Instead of being noticed, perhaps, 
> months later just before shipping, you immediately fail one or two
> tests (or a whole pile) and fix the problem.
Yep, if the traditional way is to have verification/QA right at the
end then I don't advocate that either.
But I DO believe in some quantifiable metric. Some may well state that
'what does 100% statement coverage actually mean?', But it is an easy
metric to compute and very few would advocate that 90% code coverage
by tests is better than 100%.

It could be that your suite of current tests may well cause both
clauses of all if statements to be excercised, but how do you know
what possible combinations of variables used in the if clause have
actually contributed to each choice? Your tests could test
functionality but still you may have a variable in an if statement
that is never exercised so that its changes affect the outcome:
something like 'if a or b==c:' when a is always false for some reason.

Coverage tools give you this kind of metric and allow you to test the
quality of the code produced, not just in terms of 'does it function
correctly when tested', but helps to answer 'how well do the tests
exercise the given code'.
You say in the next statement that the methodology TDD ensures no
extraneous code. I say *measure it*.
> Or, in spite of the fact that you actually *drove the development of
> the code with the tests*, and that therefore there is really no code
> that doesn't need to be there to pass the tests, you manage to let
> a bug get through.  Maybe it was more of an error in interpretation
> of the functional requirements.  In other words, almost certainly one
> of your tests is actually wrong.  Alternatively, the tests are all fine
> but you're in the unfortunate (but fortunately rare when you do it this
> way) position of having an actual, real _bug_ in spite of all those tests.
> 
> What do you do?  Add it to the bug database and see the graph go up?
> No, you don't even *have* a bug database!  There are no bugs to go in it,
> except this one.  What's the best next step?  Write a test!
In your scenario, I would graph test 'checkins' over time, assuming
tests are checked-in to some version control system when they 'work'.
> 
> The new test fails in the presence of the bug, and now you modify the
> code to pass the test (and to keep passing all those other tests) and
> check in the change.  Problem solved.  No bug, no bug database, no graph.
> 
> Maybe this sounds goofy or unrealistic to some who haven't tried it.
> Personally I thought it was novel enough to warrant an experiment when
> I first encountered it, but it didn't take long before I was convinced
> that this approach was fundamentally different and more powerful than
> the previous approaches I'd tried over twenty plus years of coding.
> It may not feel right to some people, but since it's pretty darn easy
> to read up on the approach and experiment for a few hours or days to
> get a feel for it, "don't knock it if you haven't tried it".  :-)
I don't doubt that XP and TDD can be an advance on previous methods,
I'm just wary of the lack of metrics. And I'm unsure of how you
alleviate the problem of only testing how one person or close team
think it should work. In HW design some teams have separate
Verification and Design groups and/or create two implimentations in
different languages and compare their results. If you'r writing the
test and writing the code, you can be blind to common errors.
Is TDD enough?
> 
> To answer the original question of "how do you know when you're done?"
> I would say that TDD itself doesn't really say, but in XP you have
> what are called "acceptance tests", which are similar to the unit tests
> in that they are a fully automated suite of tests that verify the 
> high level functionality of the entire program.  When your code
> passes all the units tests you have written to drive it's development,
> *and* all the acceptance tests, then you're done.  (That's another one
> of the "things of beauty" in XP: the tests aggressively control scope
> since you don't have to build anything for which you don't have a test.)
OK, how do you guage the quality of those acceptance tests + TDD +
generated program?
Graphs of TDD checkins and acceptance test checkins over time, as well
as in-depth coverage metrics might allow you to at least compare one
development effort with the next one and evolve a useful set of
'numbers' that attempt to abstract what a good design project looks
like.

With Xp but without the stats, makes it harder to encapsulate and
disseminate good project management principals.

I'd like to see people describe how to measure SW bug rates and
coverage (statement and branch etc), using specific tools, then say
'don't ship until the bug rate is below X when measured using Y; and
the Coverage metric is S when measured using tool T with options A, B
and C).
A dumb follower of rules might still cock things up, but quantifiable
goals like that would help the non-dumb.
> -Peter

Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy.



From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jun  6 08:39:06 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 14:39:06 +0200
Subject: Why it doesn't go ????
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.06.06.02.56.12.823798@libero.it>
References: <pan.2003.06.06.02.56.12.823798@libero.it>
Message-ID: <3EE08B6A.7020401@ghaering.de>

Panther wrote:
> import os
> fd = os.popen('python ping.py 192.168.1.4', 'r')
> if fd.readline() == 'None':
>  print "I'don't ping ip"

ping.py? Which ping.py are you talking about?

Or do you want to invoke the system command 'ping' instead? If you want 
to invoke the system command, this would look like:

fd = os.popen('ping 192.168.1.4', 'r')

No python and no .py.

Also it's hard for me to believe this program will actually print a line 
called 'None'.

To invoke the system 'ping', here's a suggestion:

import commands
output = commands.getoutput("ping -c 1 192.168.1.4")

Linux ping has a -c parameter for how often to ping. Similarly -n on 
Windows. Linux ping will ping until killed by default.

HTH,

-- Gerhard





From belred1 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  4 01:55:36 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 05:55:36 GMT
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>        <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com>        <PNdDa.824522$OV.780836@rwcrnsc54>        <bbjpt9$p0q$1@panix3.panix.com>        <1ieDa.35049$DV.60225@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <mailman.1054700708.6942.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rRfDa.35826$DV.62325@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1054700708.6942.python-list at python.org...
>
>     bryan> these two "styles" appear to be the same, except the second one
>     bryan> seems to be more natural and simpler and obvious to me.
>
> Perhaps, but style two limits you to a single "keyword" after the def, and
> from a parser standpoint suggests that "staticmethod" should be an actual
> keyword.  You also have to consider the other modifiers which might
> reasonably be applied to a function and how they will be implemented.  For
> pre- and post-conditions, something like
>
>     def foo_pre(...) [contract]:
>         <design-by-contract code here>
>
>     def foo_post(...) [contract]:
>         <more dbc stuff>
>
>     def foo(...) [pre=foo_pre, post=foo_post]:
>         <normal code here>
>
> or
>
>     def foo_pre(...) {'contract': True}:
>         <design-by-contract code here>
>
>     def foo_post(...) {'contract': True}:
>         <more dbc stuff>
>
>     def foo(...) {'pre': foo_pre, 'post': foo_post}:
>         <normal code here>
>
> might be sufficient to allow foo_pre and foo_post to be compiled in such a
> way that when they run they actually see foo's locals as their locals and
> allow foo to be compiled in a way that calls the pre-condition function
upon
> entry and the post-condition function just before return (after the return
> value has been computed, but before the return is executed).  (FYI, the
> above is just right off the top of my sleep-starved brain.  I'm sure it's
> full of holes.)
>
> Combining that with static methods or class methods and you find the same
> mechanism can be easily extended:
>
>     def foo(...) {'staticmethod': True, 'pre': foo_pre, 'post': foo_post}:
>         <normal code here>
>
> so now foo() is a static method with both pre- and post-condition
contracts
> which are executed at the appropriate times.
>
> and-tim's-your-uncle-ly, yr's,
>
> Skip
>


thanks skip... now i can see the elegance of this solution.  wouldn't this
also solve the pre/post conditions that are currently put in comments with
another current solution?  but, how would you handle pre/post conditions
that are only supposed to be used in a debug version?

bryan





From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Wed Jun 11 13:24:04 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:24:04 GMT
Subject: Go buy _Text Processing in Python_
References: <bD3Fa.54383$4_1.14116131@twister.nyc.rr.com> <mailman.1055189121.3400.python-list@python.org> <GK6Fa.54393$4_1.14154666@twister.nyc.rr.com> <wVQ5+kKkXUXO092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1055197398.11107.python-list@python.org> <84fc4588.0306110058.1c019f66@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <UAJFa.10209$Fu.3457594@twister.nyc.rr.com>

David made the whole thing available on-line: http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/
unfortunately the formatting is crap. I bought the book from amazon but I
would love to have a PDF version for those other times.

--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]


"Anand Pillai" <pythonguy at Hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:84fc4588.0306110058.1c019f66 at posting.google.com...
> Hi David
>
>      Is an online version available for this book ? I remember that
> you had put up sample chapters of the book sometime back on your
> website.
>
>      I would like to buy a copy, but just asking...
>
> Thanks
>
> Anand Pillai
>
> mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote in message
news:<mailman.1055197398.11107.python-list at python.org>...
> > "Max Khesin" <max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com> wrote previously:
> > |btw, your book is supposed to be on its way from Amazon. I hope it
> > |comes fast...
> >
> > Thanks Max. Which reminds me to announce that it is out:
> >
> > +++
> >
> > After way too long, my occassionally plugged book, _Text Processing in
> > Python_ is actually printed and being sold in stores.  I think it looks
> > quite nice, decent paper, binding, and I am pleased by the typography
> > now that I've seen the real thing etc.  (I did the composition, but
> > somehow the bound volume is still a step past my laser printer pages).
> > My Amazon rank fell from 1.5 millionth to 100 thousandth already... a
> > runaway seller :-).
> >
> > FWIW.  I am supposed to get 50 author's copies of the text (but my
> > publisher has seemed to drag their feet greatly on little details like
> > paying me--and delivering these copies).  When I get them, beyond a few
> > for friends and family, I'll sell the rest to the Pythonistas here (I
> > should be able to do a credit card via textbookx.com, where I have an
> > account; or send them to anyone who wants to pay me directly by
> > check).  I'll announce details when I wrestle the copies out of AW.
> >
> > Yours, David...
> >
> > -
> >    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises
_/_/_/
> >   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_/_/
> >  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...
_/_/
> > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/





From zathras at thwackety.com  Fri Jun 13 17:43:45 2003
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:43:45 +0100
Subject: Type hierarchy
In-Reply-To: <ef72fb2b.0306131205.3a7c5be9@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1055514878.28221.python-list@python.org> <ef72fb2b.0306131205.3a7c5be9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200306132243.45270.zathras@thwackety.com>

On Friday 13 June 2003 21:05, Pedro Werneck wrote:
> > needs isinstance(o, int) or isinstance(o, long), or float... although
>
> Maybe I'm wrong, but can't you use isinstance(o, (int, long, float)), for
> instance ?
>
> And the benefits of such changes would be greater than the effort to do it
> ?

It strikes me that OP wants to be able to get at things in the middle of his
type hierarchy:
   isinstance(o,numeric))
   isinstance(p,mutable)
   isinstance(q,collection)

However, as you note, these can all be done right now however:
>>> numeric=(int,long,float,complex)
>>> mutable=(dict,list)
>>> collection=(tuple,dict,list)
>>> o, p, q = 1j, "hello", (1,2,3)
>>> isinstance(o,numeric)
True
>>> isinstance(p,mutable)
False
>>> isinstance(q,collection)
True

What this _doesn't_ allow however is for someone to either subclass from in
the middle of the hierarchy, or to modify the definitions of (say) numeric to
allow this:
>>> class foo(numeric): pass
>>> foo = mySpecialNumber(1,2,3)
>>> isinstance(foo, numeric)

Because numeric is immutable. However, if you're willing to accept a slight
obfuscation in order to gain the ability to add extra things inside the
hierarchy you can do this:

>>> numeric=[int,long,float,complex]
>>> mutable=[dict,list]
>>> collection=[tuple,dict,list]
>>> o, p, q = 1j, "hello", (1,2,3)
>>> isinstance(o,tuple(numeric))
True
>>> isinstance(p,tuple(mutable))
False
>>> isinstance(q,tuple(collection))
True

You could argue "fix the hierarchy", but the problem AFAICT is this: a
hierarchy forms a taxonomy - but who's taxonomy do you want? Do you want a
fixed one formed by inheritance through abstract classes, or do you want a
more flexible approach?

OP's taxonomy would map like this:

basestring = [string, unicode]
immutable = basestring + [tuple]
mutable = [list, array]
sequence = immutable+mutable
mapping = [dict]
intclasses = [int, bool]
number = intclasses+ [long, float, complex]
internal = [code, frame, traceback]

Despite these problems, if I was faced with this hierarchy I could change it
if I disagreed with it - and I do:

>>> # eg
>>> immutable = basestring + [tuple,int,long,float,complex]

ie have a flat type system makes it simpler for a user to override the
hierarchy in a way that make sense for their application. After all Russ
Salsbury disagreed, and preferred:

   Sequence = [tuple,list]
   Mapping = [dict]
   Collection = Sequence+Dict

Which is a just as valid hierarchy. The nice thing also is it makes any
hierarchy orthoganal with any other. (This is one reason I've never been 
particularly convinced of the idea of defining a single *static* hierarchy - 
multiple or single inheritance style or otherwise)

If you combined this with an appropriate metaclass type approach (or similar),
you could even update these "central" hierarchies as classes are constructed
using "class" statements :-)

This approach has problems of its own of course. Changing basestring doesn't
update sequence, etc. This could be solved by having a form of dynamic union
of subsets - akin to an SQL view added to the sets - an idea I quite like TBH.
(You could of course just have a separate class that does the same thing :-)

Just my tuppence worth :-)


Michael.





From suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com  Wed Jun 25 01:43:33 2003
From: suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com (Suresh  Kumar)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 05:43:33 -0000
Subject: Problem in storing tkinter canvas as PNG file using ImageGrab.grab
Message-ID: <20030625054333.4153.qmail@webmail25.rediffmail.com>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20030625/8f3ebd86/attachment.ksh>

From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jun 11 14:33:43 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 20:33:43 +0200
Subject: UTF-16 encoding line breaks?
References: <3ee72262$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <m31xy031mg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Richard" <richardd at hmgcc.gov.uk> writes:

> I have a script which uses the .encode('UTF-16') function to encode a string
> into UTF-16. However I am having difficulties in putting line breaks into
> that string. \n is what I normally use but does not appear to become valid
> UTF-16 once encoded.

Can you demonstrate that? It works fine for me.

Regards,
Martin



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jun 11 17:38:52 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 17:38:52 -0400
Subject: __past__ (Was: Re: PEP-317)
References: <1055255402.3ee5eb6ae09ee@mcherm.com> <1055312155.157424@yasure> <roy-B36181.09340211062003@reader1.panix.com> <mailman.1055359042.28131.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc87hc$mlp$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1055359042.28131.python-list at python.org>,
Gerrit Holl  <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
>
>How about a __past__ pseudo-module?
>
>from __past__ import string_exceptions # for those to lazy to update their code
>from __past__ import access
>from __past__ import implicit_instatiation
># etc.

This has been suggested before and Guido has emphatically rejected it.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From t_therkelsen at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 20 18:32:13 2003
From: t_therkelsen at hotmail.com (Troels Therkelsen)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 22:32:13 GMT
Subject: Problems retreiving double from database
References: <d2ef95ea.0306201417.77b78db7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbf72rb.dk.t_therkelsen@abattoir.2-10.org>

In article <d2ef95ea.0306201417.77b78db7 at posting.google.com>, Thunder Perfect Mind wrote:
> I'm using an Access database where some fields are doubles.  I'm using
> ADO to access this and when I try to retrieve the value in the field
> it returns the wrong value, instead of say 12.432 which might be the
> value of the field it returns 12.43200000000000003.  Thinking this
> might be a problem with ADO I tried to use ODBC with the same
> result..... hmmmm maybe the database is the problem so I downloaded
> MySQL and connected with ODBC.... again same problem.
> 
> Anyone know what causes this? and if so how do I fix it?
> 
> Any help appreciated,
> 
> dr//\//\

The problem isn't directly related to Python, but how floating-point numbers
are represented using a limited number of bits.  Please read this page:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node14.html

Regards,

Troels Therkelsen




From mike at bindkey.com  Tue Jun 17 22:11:39 2003
From: mike at bindkey.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:11:39 -0700
Subject: pack and unpack problems
References: <20030618014303.0DCCB269AC@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <bcohoe$ssd$1@main.gmane.org>

"Justin Johnson" <justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> wrote in message
> exceptions.ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size
>
> struct.calcsize('xxLxx8c') returns 18, which is the amount of bytes in
> "data", at least I think so.

Hm, make yourself sure:

assert len(data)==struct.calcsize('xxLxx8c')

Mike

PS. Better use '!xxLxx8c' cause N is network order 4-byte long

PPS. xxNxxH8 = 1+1+4+1+1+8 = 16, so check alignment!







From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Jun  9 18:50:06 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 23:50:06 +0100
Subject: Why is error message value "disappearing"?
References: <HN7Fa.571$Hw.711657@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <87k7bu7tnl.fsf@pobox.com>

"Robert Oschler" <no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid> writes:
[...]
> It's as if errMsg is being passed by value and the assignment that occurs
> inside errtest() doesn't "stick".  I thought Python was pass by reference?
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
[...]

http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#4.35
http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#4.89


John



From theller at python.net  Tue Jun 17 07:35:21 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:35:21 +0200
Subject: Python 2.2.2 win32 build
References: <mailman.1055842229.11549.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <y901j5s6.fsf@python.net>

Sebastien Hugues <sebastien.hugues at swissinfo.org> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I built Python 2.2.2 dll and exe under win32 using Visual Studio and now
> i wonder how i could make a distribution from my build. The official
> distribution
> uses Wise, but i didn't see and config file for Wise in the package...
>
> Any ideas ?

It's PCBuild\python20.wse.

Thomas



From erased*remove_this* at xs4all.nl  Fri Jun 20 07:38:24 2003
From: erased*remove_this* at xs4all.nl (rgndrp)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 11:38:24 GMT
Subject: include files?
References: <3ef1c90f$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <bcuftd$rvu$0@216.39.172.122> <3ef2d8fc$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <bcupq6$n4nl9$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3ef2f22f$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

it would if i'd get it to work :)
now it returns this cgi error:

---------------8<--------------------------
The specified cgi application misbehaved by not returning a
complete set of HTTP headers. The headers it did return are:

  File "e:\_cgi\test.cgi", line 1
    include applic.py
                 ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
--------------->8--------------------------

the only line in applic.py is:
myvar=5

hmpf!


Thomas G?ttler wrote:

> rgndrp wrote:
> 
> > Bengt Richter wrote:
> > 
> >> On 19 Jun 2003 14:30:39 GMT, "rgndrp"
> <erased*remove_this*@xs4all.nl> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >> >hi all,
> >> >
> >> >I use python for making cgi scripts on a iis/w2k
> >> >box and i wanted to know if it is it possible to include files in
> >> >python?
> >> >like: <!--#include file="file.inc"-->
> >> >or something :)
> >> >
> >> It depends on you context. If you are in a Python source context,
> >> execfile has a similar effect to #include. Chances are there are
> >> better ways to solve your problem though.
> >> 
> >> Regards,
> >> Bengt Richter
> > 
> > what im trying to do is have a file in which i define some
> > global variables and functions such as fonts and background colors
> > and debug/database functions. i used to do this is asp with include
> > files.  any other suggestions, anyone? :)
> 
> Does this help you?
> 
> main.py:
> include variables
> if variables.myvar==5:
>    print "OK"
> 
> variables.py:
> myvar=5
> 
>  thomas




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Jun 16 15:52:51 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:52:51 -0500
Subject: Diamond inheritance with str
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306161258390.32690-100000@calais.cs.ualberta.ca>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306161258390.32690-100000@calais.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <20030616195248.GA923@unpythonic.net>

I don't understand why it fixes the problem, but if you write this
instead, it works:
>>> class A(str): pass
... 
>>> class B(A): pass
... 
>>> class C(A): pass
... 
>>> class D(B, C): pass
... 




The original case fails just like your message described:
>>> class B1(str): pass
... 
>>> class C1(str): pass
... 
>>> class D1(B1, B2): pass
... 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  TypeError: multiple bases have instance lay-out conflict

This is in Python 2.2.2.

Jeff




From david24 at iland.net  Wed Jun 18 18:57:42 2003
From: david24 at iland.net (David B.)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:57:42 -0500
Subject: Windows Program?
Message-ID: <vf1roa984ou832@corp.supernews.com>

Hello. I'm new to python and I was wondering... can you make windows-like
programs? (Like with the gray background and the input boxes?)

David





From m at moshez.org  Wed Jun  4 23:51:55 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 03:51:55 -0000
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.3999999999 ?
In-Reply-To: <3EDEA84A.389C1AC5@alcyone.com>
References: <3EDEA84A.389C1AC5@alcyone.com>, <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com> <mailman.1053017062.18647.python-list@python.org> <895e4ce2.0306021736.13c657a5@posting.google.com> <slrnbdo1i8.a95.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3EDC1074.CA05EC23@alcyone.com> <u60tdvcau9j1ftu7rh05bv4leioate5afn@4ax.com> <bbm8aq$ld3$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20030605035155.16099.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Wed, 04 Jun 2003, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

> There are all sorts of alternative definitions of the reals which have
> differing properties than the reals we've all come to know and love. 
> They usually fall under the general category of "non-standard analysis."

In non-standard analysis, 0.9999..... has *no* meaning if you just translate
the usual definition of limit from the real numbers. This shouldn't be
surprising, as limits are not a first-order property. In general, since
being a least upper bound is not first-order property, there are no
least upper bounds in non-standard analysis. And again, not surprising --
it is easy to prove that any ordered field with least upper bounds is
the standard reals. Only when we become myopic enough for first-order
sentences only, can the non-standard reals simulate the reals.

(Oh, of course, if you translate the definition of limits blindly
*enough*, that is to allow the sequence to range over the non-standard
integers too, then 0.999....=1 again. Although the *name* 0.99999...
is misleading, since it looks like it only ranges over the standard
integers).
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jun 25 16:54:35 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:54:35 +0200
Subject: Staying Connected to a POP3/SMTP Server
In-Reply-To: <5a8e622e.0306251107.1d5e3202@posting.google.com>
References: <5a8e622e.0306251107.1d5e3202@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3efa0c0b$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Amos Joshua wrote:
> Would any Bad Things happen if I stayed connected to a POP3 and an
> SMTP server for say, an hour, while checking for new emails say, every
> ten seconds, and sending some at small intervals like that too?

If it is your own mail server, I think not.
If it is the mail server of your ISP, I think they won't be happy.
Checking for mail that often is a substantial load on the machine,
compared to 'normal use'.

I'm not sure, but the POP3 server may erminate the connection
if you keep it open for <specific interval> minutes...?
As a safeguard for people hogging server resources...

--Irmen




From dave at boost-consulting.com  Wed Jun 18 10:25:54 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:25:54 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com>
 <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it>
 <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com>
 <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr>
 <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com>
 <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it>
 <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com>
 <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> But this has little to do with the need of 'type declarations'.  I
> suspect that a statically typed language would also be better off
> without them, relying on type inferencing instead, a la Haskell (and
> Haskell's typeclasses to keep the inferencing as wide as feasible),
> for example.  But I have no research to back this up;-).

I don't have any first-hand experience, but the experience of friends
of mine who have used Haskell is that it can be exceedingly difficult
to locate the source of a type error when it does occur, since the
inference engine may propagate the "wrong" type back much further than
the source of the error.

Furthermore, if you do everything by inference you lose the
explanatory power of type declarations.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jun 26 21:21:20 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:21:20 GMT
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com> <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com> <bdb22c$psllg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EF933AA.C16ADFE5@alcyone.com> <bdcl1d$v43$0@216.39.172.122> <fef0a228.0306261125.62b83713@posting.google.com> <slrnbfn2eb.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <k_MKa.328486$3n5.92373@news2.central.cox.net>

"Ben Finney" <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> wrote in message
news:slrnbfn2eb.rbb.bignose-hates-spam at iris.polar.local...
> On 26 Jun 2003 12:25:55 -0700, - wrote:
> > I think the terminology is not taken from typewriters, but from some
> > old printers where you needed both characters to start a new line.
> >
> > CR moved the print head to the beginning of the line
>
> CR stands for "carriage return".  If you're talking about a print head
> moving across the paper, you're no longer talking about a carriage
> "returning", so the terminology obviously didn't come from electric
> printers.
>
> Carriage Return is a direct reference to the paper carriage on a manual
> typewriter.  These predate electric printing machines, and thus the
> terminology was borrowed when teletypes needed control codes to control
> their print head.
>
> On such typewriters, the "line feed" function was also separate; once
> the carriage was returned to the start of the line, one could cause
> the paper to feed up a line at a time to introduce more vertical space;
> this didn't affect the position of the paper carriage, so was
> conceptually a separate operation.
>
> So, it was teletypes that needlessly preserved the CR and LF as separate
> control operations, due to the typewriter-based thinking of their
> designers.  If they'd been combined into the one operation, we would
> have all the same functionality but none of the confusion over line
> ending controls.
>

Although in actual fact the KSR33 teletype did need a fifth of a second to
guarantee that the print head would have returned to the left margin from
column 72 haracters was a "feature". Sometimes you would (all right, *I*
would) depress the two keys in the wrong order, and the result was that you
would see a single character printed in the middle of the new line during
the "flyback" period.

mobile-mine-of-useless-information-ly y'rs  - steve
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From painlord2k at yahoo.it  Fri Jun 20 04:29:56 2003
From: painlord2k at yahoo.it (Mirco Romanato)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:29:56 GMT
Subject: Tiger Hash Function in Python
References: <y2lIa.104936$lK4.2967901@twister1.libero.it> <bct5oh$6k4$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <8CzIa.104097$Ny5.3014903@twister2.libero.it>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:bct5oh$6k4$1 at panix1.panix.com...
> In article <y2lIa.104936$lK4.2967901 at twister1.libero.it>,
> Mirco Romanato <painlord2k at yahoo.it> wrote:

> >I'm thinkering with Python to build an utility (more specs at the
end
> >of the post) and I need to utilize the Tiger Hash function.
> >I have not MSVC and run a Win box with the last Cygwin and Python
> >2.2.3.

> >There is any module that compile automagically with Cygwin, or a
> >module that don't need to be compiled, only installed?

> Why not write a Tiger hash module yourself?

I'm a newby to Python, and I want use Python because it don't need to
compile and other things in order to have a working program.

It is over 10 years I don't program anything, apart my VCR :-(

But you are right, probably I will follow yours if I find no
alternative.

What I dare is, what if I use Python to compute Tiger hash for big
files:
e.g tiger of 1024 bytes chunks of a 650 - 1 GB files (650k-1M function
call for a file).
The function efficiency compared to C how will compare?

Mirco




From stephane.richard at verizon.net  Mon Jun 23 08:26:00 2003
From: stephane.richard at verizon.net (Stephane Richard)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:26:00 GMT
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org> <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com> <slrnbf8tsd.qc.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <m3r85nmoch.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnbf9fem.1ej5.missive@localhost.my.domain> <m3wuffi1x7.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <23891c90.0306230142.83612c8@posting.google.com> <slrnbfdp5t.qk.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <slCJa.6888$N%6.1439@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

As they say in the industry.

The Majority (here the most widely used) sometimes means that all the fools
are on the same side...hehehe..

For data Sharing, XML seems to be the way to go, no two ways about it, and
it's why Oracle and SQL Server offer, directly in their SQL statements the
ability to select as XML directly.

To me, although it may be to many tags at times, I use XML for configuration
purposes, instead of an INI file for example. reason being that INI files do
have a size limit and I hate dealign with such limits :-).....also I've
created engines that build dynamic forms from the contents of XML documents
(to define and configure data screens for multiple phase dialogs or
instrumentation in the case of an musical editor librarian).  which can
easily break the 64Kb limit offered by ini files.  and since each tree
section can hold very different GUI design elements for the same part of a
data entry screen.  XML proves ideal in describing each part and under which
condition each part should occur in a very human readable format, at least I
liek to think so :-).



--
St?phane Richard
Senior Software and Technology Supervisor
http://www.totalweb-inc.com
For all your hosting and related needs
"Ben Finney" <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> wrote in message
news:slrnbfdp5t.qk.bignose-hates-spam at rose.localdomain.fake...
> On 23 Jun 2003 02:42:49 -0700, Paul Boddie wrote:
> > it is fair to say that claiming the suitability of [ASCII plain text]
> > because "there are a lot of parsers which use it" is analogous to
> > telling a Japanese person that they only need to know the Latin
> > alphabet to be able to understand most Western languages.
>
> Good thing nobody's tried to claim that then.  I raised the issue of
> ASCII plain text to refute the claim that HTML was the "most widely used
> document format".  I make no necessarily related claim about
> suitability.
>
> In fact, I raised awareness of the "most widely used document format"
> issue to show that just because something is widely used, doesn't
> necessarily mean it's suitable in all the place it's used.
>
> Plain text ASCII is great as far as it goes, but for structured data,
> a threshold is usually reached where something more complex is needed.
> When it is, XML -- encoded as plain ASCII, or some other standard text
> encoding -- is a prime choice, in my book.
>
> > There are some pretty solid reasons for choosing XML to represent
> > data.
>
> I agree with most of them, and am in favour of choosing XML when
> interchangeable, structured data is needed.
>
> (I'm always tempted to leave out the "interchangeable" -- isn't data
> essentially useless unless it can be interchanged? -- but then I recall
> proprietary formats that enforce vendor lock-in by deliberately
> obstructing interchangeability, and realise it still needs to be made
> explicit.)
>
> --
>  \      "One seldom discovers a true believer that is worth knowing."  |
>   `\                                               -- Henry L. Mencken |
> _o__)                                                                  |
> http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B





From sheila at spamcop.net  Sat Jun  7 01:02:34 2003
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 22:02:34 -0700
Subject: Anyone using Python to access PHPbb's MySQL database on a web server?
References: <EpcDa.2207$xM5.2049592@news2.news.adelphia.net> <bbln6k.1i0.1@kserver.org> <k_0Ea.3971$xM5.2641647@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <bbr31q.1a0.1@kserver.org>

On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:50:08 GMT, "Robert Oschler"
<no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid> wrote in comp.lang.python in
article <k_0Ea.3971$xM5.2641647 at news2.news.adelphia.net>:

> "Sheila King" <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:bbln6k.1i0.1 at kserver.org...
> > On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 02:01:08 GMT, "Robert Oschler"
> > <no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid> wrote in comp.lang.python in
> > article <EpcDa.2207$xM5.2049592 at news2.news.adelphia.net>:
> >
> > > I want to run Python programs locally on my Win2k box to read/write the
> > > PHPbb.MySQL database(s).  I have Python 2.2.x with the venerable WingIDE
> > > debugger running on my Win2k box.  Has anyone done any Python
> programming
> > > like this?   If so, I'd be very interested in what you had to do to get
> it
> > > working, especially in the area of any available python
> libraries/modules to
> > > help with the MySQL access.
> >
> > You really do need to check with your host as to whether they allow IP
> > addresses outside of their local network to even access the MySQL server.
> >
> > I get quite a number of support incidents at the Service Desk where I
> work,
> > where clients just assume that because they have Telnet/SSH and FTP
> access,
> > that they can also connect to their MySQL databases remotely.
> >
> > We do not permit this, excepting that they order a special ODBC
> connection.
> >
> > Like I said, check first to see whether it is even permitted by your host.
> >
> > --
> > Sheila King
> > http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> > http://www.k12groups.org/
> 
> Sheila,
> 
> Good info, thanks.  It looks like I may have to do some PHP work to create
> an interface to the MySQL database, if my ISP says "no" to remote access.
> 
> thx
> 

In that case, you might find that phpMyAdmin will fit the bill quite
nicely. Saves you from re-inventing the wheel.

-- 
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From gradha at titanium.sabren.com  Mon Jun 16 17:07:40 2003
From: gradha at titanium.sabren.com (Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:07:40 +0200
Subject: Html: replacing tags
In-Reply-To: <slrnbeki2c.khr.missive@localhost.my.domain>
References: <2972888.1055030986@dbforums.com> <mailman.1055530890.24345.python-list@python.org> <slrnbeki2c.khr.missive@localhost.my.domain>
Message-ID: <20030616210740.GA28574@pedos.es>

On 2003-06-13, Lee Harr <missive at frontiernet.net> wrote:
> I needed to do something very similar recently. I was making
> a mirror of a website for burning on to a cdrom, so all links
> needed to be made relative instead of absolute.
> 
> It seems like this may be a very common thing to do (replacing
> tags).  If someone makes a general solution, it might be nice if
> this functionality were in the standard library.
> 
> My solution was to get a list of the tags and then just
> line.replace(old_tag, new_tag) through the file.
> 
> Problem is it tends to find things that should not be replaced.

I wrote that not long ago for work and packaged it inside a small
class which allows link extraction and link modification. You can
get it from http://gradha.sdf-eu.org/efaber.en.html.

-- 
 Please don't send me private copies of your public answers. Thanks.




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Thu Jun 19 10:02:08 2003
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:02:08 +0100
Subject: How to recognize a generator function?
References: <mailman.1055975933.30423.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fhg3fv04jp3rglo3hpfnfdb3bb9up1dts8@4ax.com>

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:33:37 -0700, Oscar Rambla <tecnic at codidoc.com>
wrote:

[Text snipped]

>Gon?alo wrote:
>>And then again, why are you interested in such a difference? Seems
>>like the typical YAGNI.
>
>Could you spell it, please?

You aint gonna need it.

>
>Oscar Rambla
>CODI
>

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Fri Jun 27 10:15:23 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:15:23 -0600
Subject: GC time debug...
In-Reply-To: <20030626064759.GD11302@c1.neotonic.com>; from jeske@neotonic.com on Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 11:47:59PM -0700
References: <20030626064759.GD11302@c1.neotonic.com>
Message-ID: <20030627081523.A5072@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth David Jeske:
> In debugging Python GC actions, it's really useful to know the amount
> of time Python spends doing the GC cycle (i.e. the pause time). I made
> a quick hack to do this, and I've attached the patch. [...]
> I'd like to see something like this added to gc module. 

What you should do, then, is submit it on SourceForge:
    <http://sourceforge.net/projects/python/>
(I think you'll have to register to submit a patch.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"[T]rue greatness is when your name is like ampere, watt, and fourier
 -- when it's spelled with a lower case letter."      -- R.W. Hamming




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jun 24 13:18:49 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 10:18:49 -0700
Subject: Getting a list of an object's methods?
References: <Xns93A2DFFF69BDCfreddiethescaryeleph@203.10.110.105> <bd498r$o0ehq$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de> <yfsk7be5e5f.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <bd4sst$pcteb$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de> <yfsel1l651p.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <2259b0e2.0306230447.52460ace@posting.google.com> <yfsadc86dg9.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306240918.1eb58afe@posting.google.com>

Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<yfsadc86dg9.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk>...
> Now I have no idea what the hell a "member" is supposed to be (inspect's docu
> won't tell you and the only sense in which it occurs in the language ref is
> that of set membership (i.e. qualfiying __contains__)), so my guess is that
> it's just some ad hoc synonym for attribute (not that I remember stumbling
> across a clear definition of attribute anywhere, either).
> 
> "Member" better have *some* reasonably well-defined meaning, because unlike
> `dir` which is supposed to just give a "convinient" overview of an objects
> content in interactive session, AFAICT `inspect.getmembers` is meant to be
> used for programming. I somehow prefer my programs to have well-defined
> meanings.
> 
> So if no-one enlightens me, I shall file a bug report.
> 
> 
> 'as

Do you mean a documentation bug report? I do agree with you that a 
non-ambiguous definition of "member" should be given in the language 
reference. At the present it seems that metaclass methods are not
considered "members" of the instance class: if this is the case, 
it should be documented. On the other hand, if this is not the case, 
then inspect.getmember is buggy.


                                                    Michele



From llafba at gmx.net  Thu Jun 26 15:31:30 2003
From: llafba at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:31:30 +0200
Subject: boa constructor - run script/output
References: <3EFAE800.6080406@gmx.net> <mailman.1056647924.8877.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EFB4A12.1010504@gmx.net>

Thanks for your answer.
1.) yes, I had to put my whole script into a function. Didn't know that 
first. I wanted to run the whole script, but I think it works now.
2.) I also think that the examples of wxPython are really great. 
Sometimes it is just hard to understand the code if you are a newbie. 
:-) I worked on this all day and think that I did it now!:-)

Thanks for your help.
Tom

delphiro wrote:

>problem 1)
>
>It sounds like you need to import your script
>
>import your_script_name
>
>and attach an event to the function that you want to call
>from within your script
>
>for example;
>
>yourscript.py contains function 'DoThis()'
>
>in gui class:
>
>import yourscript.py
>
>some event
>
>def OnButtonMyButtonDown(self,event):
>    yourscript.DoThis()
>
>2)
>
>You will have to edit your script in a way that it
>knows where to send it's output. This means you will
>have to pass a widget (like wxTextCtrl) to your script
>and output the messages to that widget.
>
>The best way to actualy learn wxPython for me was to study the
>examples. They realy make things clear for almost any widget!
>
>Hope this helps,
>Rob
>
>  
>




From yweng at cs.uoregon.edu  Tue Jun 10 03:00:14 2003
From: yweng at cs.uoregon.edu (Yan Weng)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:00:14 -0700
Subject: Provide an option: static typing + type inference ?
Message-ID: <bc4071$936$1@pith.uoregon.edu>

In theory, dynamic typing = static typing + type inference.
ML implemented the later one. Can we provide something similar in Python?
I knew this topic was discussed two years ago in type SIG. Is there any new
achivement in this area recently?

--
Yan Weng
yweng at cs.uoregon.edu
http://www.cs.uoregon.edu





From PupppyWizzard at glay.org  Wed Jun  4 05:59:01 2003
From: PupppyWizzard at glay.org (Pupppy Wizzard)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 02:59:01 -0700
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
Message-ID: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com>

Hi. I am an old school programmer looking to modernize my skill set. I
want to focus on one new language. Should I choose:

VB
VB.net
C#
C++
Python
Smalltalk
J#
JScript.net
or Java?



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jun  4 10:12:31 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 07:12:31 -0700
Subject: How to replace the metaclasses of all the classes imported
References: <ba1e306f.0306030627.4e88996a@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054651567.32409.python-list@python.org> <ba1e306f.0306031034.1d9df7a1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306040612.1605d37@posting.google.com>

janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine) wrote in message news:<ba1e306f.0306031034.1d9df7a1 at posting.google.com>...
> 
> Let me explain more about what I want:
> 
> Let's assume there are a dozen of modules in my program.
> ##############################
> #main.py
> 
> import alpha
> 
> class A:
>     ....
> 
> class B:
>     ....
> 
> def main(...):
>     ....
>     temp=alpha.C()
>     ....
> 
> if __name__=='__main__':
>     main(...)
> 
> ##############################
> #alpha.py
> 
> import beta
> 
> class C:
>     ....
> 
> def ...
> 
> ##############################
> #beta.py
> 
> class D:
>     ....
> 
> def ...
> 
> ----------------------------------
> What I'd like to do with metaclasses is, for example, log all
> method calls with minimum code change.

Two ideas:

1. The poor man solution: if all classes are old style classes, as it
seems
from your example, simply add on top of each module the line
__metaclass__=LoggerMetaclass (you can also do that automatically, if
there are too many modules). 

If this is too much a change of the source code, or if you have new
style classes, then

2. The rich man solution: redefine the __import__ function by using an
improved
version of import_with_metaclass. I suggest to look at
Demo/imputil/knee.py
in the Python source distribution for hints on how to do it.

Note for David Mertz: we should fix the import_with_metaclass function
to
make it safe under meta-type conflicts. I hadn't time to look at it
yet :-(


                                               Michele



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sun Jun 22 19:55:30 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 00:55:30 +0100
Subject: Getting a list of an object's methods?
References: <Xns93A2DFFF69BDCfreddiethescaryeleph@203.10.110.105> <bd498r$o0ehq$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de> <yfsk7be5e5f.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <bd4sst$pcteb$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <yfsel1l651p.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Jeremy Yallop <jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk> writes:

> Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> >>>> import inspect, operator
> >>>> inspect.getmembers(foo, operator.isCallable)
> 
> Unfortunately, this isn't any better than the original idea of using
> dir(), 

I think it is, see below.

> since inspect.getmembers is implemented using dir().  

True.

> As the OP noted, dir() isn't reliable. 

True.

The premises are right, but they don't entail the conclusion. `dir`s behavior
is not guaranteed to be stable, but `inspect.getmembers`'s obviously is [1].
Since `inspect.getmembers` is part of python itself, it can freely use any
behavior guaranteed for *a particular python version* and the fact that it
uses `dir` thus becomes and implementation detail that needs to be of no
concern to anyone except the inspect module's official maintainer -- if `dir`
changes, he or she will need to update `inspect.getmembers`. However:

> For example, 'mro' isn't in int's dir(), although it is (the name of) a
> method of type and in type's __dict__.

Indeed, so this looks like a bug to that should be filed (unless `mro` somehow
doesn't qualify as a 'member' -- I can't see why, but this is something I
leave to the wizards).

If these omissions turn out to be important of the OP's desired application,
then he'll indeed need to consider a further alternative (maybe based upon the
union of `inspect.getmembers` and the `__dict__.keys()`, where the latter are
available).

Anyway, this example highlights a problem I'm getting increasingly concerned
about, namely the erosion of python's metaprogramming capabilities. I don't
think "What methods does this object have?" is a question that only a python
wizard should be able to ask and receive a well-defined answer.

'as

Footnotes:

[1] Otherwise the inspect module would be bascially useless.




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  9 07:03:34 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 12:03:34 +0100
Subject: Recall last result
References: <3ee4577d$0$25096$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at> <3EE45AED.8A20FD8E@hotmail.com> <3EE45F0A.750D7AB3@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3EE46986.53EFF8EC@hotmail.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> This is indeed true, but note that it is only the case in the
> interactive interpreter.  It is not the case in a general script; it
> wasn't clear which the original poster meant.

I didn't say that it would work in the general case, all I said was "try this".

Original Poster wrote:

> I call a function producing a large solution
> for a combinatorial problem. The computation takes quite some time.
> I forgot to assign the result to a variable.
> The list is displayed on screen?
...
> History recall does not help me, since that would reproduce my input,
> but I need the output.

The latter statement strongly indicates to me that the OP is running an
interactive shell, which is why I suggested a solution that would work in the
interactive shell.

Just in case he wasn't, then perhaps you can enlighten us on how to solve the
problem in the general case?

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From cbrown at metservice.com  Fri Jun 13 01:19:29 2003
From: cbrown at metservice.com (Colin Brown)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:19:29 +1200
Subject: CPU utilization
References: <bc7m2n$6jp4$1@acs2.byu.edu>
Message-ID: <3ee95cd2$1@news.iconz.co.nz>

Eric Jensen wrote in message news:bc7m2n$6jp4$1 at acs2.byu.edu...
> I am writing a diagnostics program and would like to get the CPU
> utilization for the system. Does anyone know simple way to do this?
...

With the emphasis on simple & for Win32 you may like to look at
wrapping a call to pslist.exe from pstools (www.sysinternals.com).

Colin Brown







From ngps at netmemetic.com  Thu Jun 12 20:56:43 2003
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 00:56:43 GMT
Subject: Python Coredump on FreeBSD
References: <mailman.1052940442.4968.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1053878763.24409.python-list@python.org> <bc4qh8$mp7$03$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1055339538.2010.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcb7gb$uhs$2@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Andrew MacIntyre  <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au>:
> Ok, so you're using threads...

Also see here:

  http://www.zettai.net/Members/george/python213FreeBSDPlone.blog/view



-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL



From usenet at soraia.com  Wed Jun  4 23:53:05 2003
From: usenet at soraia.com (Joe Francia)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 03:53:05 GMT
Subject: Including binary files in a .py file; advice needed
In-Reply-To: <3EDEB0A6.202@netspace.net.au>
References: <3EDEB0A6.202@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <3EDEBED2.80605@soraia.com>

Gary Duncan wrote:

> 
> Here's what I want to do; distribute a .py file (a GUI app) with
> an embedded (binary) .GIF file (a photo of me at 1 yo ;) rather than
> distribute both separately. For convenience, mainly.
> 
> 
> If in a Unix shell script, I'd uuencode the .GIF and include the 
> printable-ASCII file in it as a 'here' file. When executed the script
> would 'cat' it out to e.g. a /tmp file from the main body of the script, 
> then uudecode the /tmp file to revert to the original .GIF file.
> 
> I imagine in Python, one could place the uuencoded file (lines)
> as a triple-quoted string, then uudecode it the .py program.
> 

You can use the uu module, though I'd suggest the base64 instead, as it 
can decode a string directly (uu requires a file-like object), and tends 
to produce somewhat smaller strings.

############

#careful not to include a leading newline in b64 string
ENCODED_GIF = \
'''R0lGODlhcwCKAPf/AJNtWolhToNdS7OEbGxLPbOMcraimHRTQ6iclkc4NntTQ725tnFiXFlJRb2o
m5x5ZUEuKod5dpt1YotkUqZzXVtCN6t9Zb2Se5ptWpiJiKyKdJOIer6bhMbGxlM2LoV0bToqJ3NL
blah blah etc...
'''

import base64
out_gif = file('/home/scaba/littleman.gif', 'wb')
out_gif.write(base64.decodestring(ENCODED_GIF))
out_gif.close()

#############

jf




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun  2 09:10:26 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:10:26 -0400
Subject: CGI question: safe passwords possible?
References: <cb035744.0305301401.3fdc8a96@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054338287.30346.python-list@python.org> <7xwug82ag0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3EDB4CC2.B34F910C@engcorp.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> Don't do it that way, since the hashed value sent to the server is
> re-useable.  Try something more like:
> 
>  <form action="whatever" onSubmit="dohash(this)">
>  <input type="password" name="password">
>  <input type="hidden" name="password_enc">
>  <script>
>  function dohash(form) {
>    # Set "iv" to some random server-generated junk that's different every time
>    iv = "un43iuhiuanasdcainini3nr3r"
> 
>    form.elements.password_enc.value =
>        md5hash(iv + md5hash(iv + form.elements.password.value));
>    form.elements.password.value = "";
>  }

Doesn't this implementation also suffer from requiring the server
side to store the password somewhere effectively in the clear?
An extra pre-hash step on the password above, prior to the hashing with
the random number, is probably a good idea.  That way the server will
be able to pre-hash the passwords as well prior to storage, and they
are not available even to administrators.

(Paul, I don't understand why you did a double hash above, since it
doesn't seem to add any extra value over a single one, in this case.)

Also note: you won't be able to have your users change their passwords
securely with any such approach.  For that, I believe SSL is going to
be the only secure option, to avoid ever sending a password to the server
in the clear.  (Or generate passwords on the server side and email to the
user, though that has obvious other problems...)

-Peter



From hsart at gmx.de  Sun Jun 29 06:02:46 2003
From: hsart at gmx.de (H.S. Art)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:02:46 +0200
Subject: output
References: <3EFC1C1E.6020504@gmx.de> <mailman.1056710984.6810.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EFEB946.9000908@gmx.de>

Thank you for your answer!
That "little" trick works perfect for me. :-)



Fredrik Lundh wrote:

>H.S. Art wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I have a sript that runs very well. I do my output to the python shell
>>with the print command. That works well, too.
>>print 'Error occured ' + str(i+1)
>>
>>No I want to have my output into a textctrl frame in a window. I start
>>my script by pushing a button in my window. It starts fine but I can't
>>see any output. For test purposes I added the following code to the
>>event  handler of the button:
>>
>>self.textCtrl1.WriteText('TEST\n')
>>
>>This produces output to my text ctrl window. So I replaced all 'print'
>>commands in my script with 'self.textCtrl1.WriteText ...'
>>    
>>
>
>someone else will have to sort the variable scoping issues for you [1],
>but in the meantime, you could try the following little trick.
>
>1) at the top of your program, import the "sys" module:
>
>    import sys
>
>2) in the event handler, add the following redirection code:
>
>        # redirect output to my window
>        class redirect:
>            def __init__(self, window):
>                self.write = window.WriteText
>        sys.stdout = redirect(self.textCtrl1)
>
></F>
>
>1) the following links might be somewhat helpful:
>
>http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node11.html#SECTION0011200000000000000000
>http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/naming.html (technical)
>
>
>
>
>  
>




From bcorfman at amsaa.army.mil  Tue Jun 17 09:16:18 2003
From: bcorfman at amsaa.army.mil (Brandon Corfman)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:16:18 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <3EEDEDBE.BCB56D6E@engcorp.com>
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com>	 <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3EEDEDBE.BCB56D6E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <HGMnCw.5tM@arl.mil>

1) Why can't this issue be solved by making Python like Lisp/Dylan in 
this regard? Make type declarations/range limitations on variables an 
optional thing. Flexibility if you need it, safety later if you're 
concerned about it.

2) It also seems that the Python community wastes too much time on these 
explanations. A better answer (in my mind) would be to say that the 
Python environment is designed to make the development process far 
different than in a statically-typed language like C++.

Python is different because a) an interactive command prompt to allow 
instant evaluation/testing of return values encourages immediate 
testing, b) a unit testing framework encourage more long-term testing, 
and c) simple tuple-packing/unpacking allow multiple return values. All 
of these combine to make Python a development environment that 
encourages functional programming _and all development should be done 
this way_. If your functions at the lowest levels produce the results 
you are expecting, then you have confidence that the other higher-level 
functions built on top of them will produce the correct results as well.

This development process is vastly different than what a C++/Java 
programmer is used to, because even if they program functionally (and 
MOST do not), they rely on a debugger to test values. Although the 
Python environment has a debugger to make C++/Java programmers make the 
transition, I think new Python programmers should be steered toward 
using Python properly as soon as possible.

I think the problem is that a C++/Java programmer regards the Python 
command prompt as little more than a calculator or a place to type 
"prog.main()". I know I did at first.

Brandon



Peter Hansen wrote:
> David Abrahams wrote:
> 
>>I find that static typing makes a big difference for two things:
>>
>>  2. Refactoring.  Having a compiler which does some static checking
>>     allows me to make changes and use the compiler as a kind of
>>     "anchor" to pivot against.  It's easy to infer that certain
>>     changes will cause compiler errors in all the places where some
>>     corresponding change needs to be made.  When I do the same thing
>>     with Python I have to crawl through all the code to find the
>>     changes, and a really complete set of tests often take long
>>     enough to run that using the tests as a pivot point is
>>     impractical.
> 
> 
> I just went through a particularly straining session of refactoring
> yesterday.
> 
> I couldn't get my head around how to do what I wanted to do, but I
> kept bashing away at it, trying one thing, then another.  (One of
> my problems is that I'm still a little new at using generators, and
> I was trying to use a generator at the heart of the solution.)
> 
> At no time was I actually changing the interface to any of my
> functions, changing order of arguments or their types.
> 
> At no time did I actually encounter a syntax error or any other
> kind of error which stopped the code from running.
> 
> At no time did I make a single mistake which would have been
> caught by the compiler for a statically typed language.  I
> was on a roll I guess, typing accurately and not doing anything
> sloppy.
> 
> Nevertheless, I repeatedly injected logic errors and other such
> problems into the code as I tried to change its structure.
> 
> My tests helped me though.  I'd guess I had to back out of at
> least five different false directions, as one after another
> obscure test popped up, tapped me on the shoulder, and said,
> "Uh, excuse me?  What am I, chopped liver?  I need to pass too!"
> 
> Not proof of anything, or disproof, either, I suppose.  Just a
> little reflection on refactoring and the value of tests and
> static type checking.
> 
> -Peter




From pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl  Fri Jun 20 19:22:46 2003
From: pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl (Artur M. Piwko)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:22:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Weird 'and' result...
Message-ID: <slrnbf75q5.9t.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>

pipen at demon:/tmp/ekg-1.1rc1$ python
Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jun  4 2003, 02:54:59)
[GCC 3.3 (Debian)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> "%08x" % (0xea7ee5ccea7 & 0xffffffff)
'ea7ee5ccea7'
>>>

And it should be 'ee5ccea7'. Am I missing something?

-- 
Before the Goat of Mendes... we all must take our turn   |  Artur M. Piwko
Into the magic circle... where still the fire burns      |  mailto:s/_/./
We're spinning round and round... until one takes a fall | -- Mercyful Fate
The fallen one will not return, the fallen one must burn | "Witches' Dance"



From ecastro at dbbf.ulpgc.es  Tue Jun 10 05:58:02 2003
From: ecastro at dbbf.ulpgc.es (Enrique Castro)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 10:58:02 +0100
Subject: PyUNO connection to OpenOffice
Message-ID: <3ee5abaa$1_2@noticias.ulpgc.es>

Hi,
   I am trying to learn how to access to OpenOffice for 
automatization, from Python. I am working in a Win2k box. I 
have installed OOO 1.1b2 and the PyUNO bridge (0.9.3), with 
Python 2.2 (working correctly for many other things).

I get the following error:

c:\Archivos de programa\OpenOffice.org1.1\program>python 
swriter.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "swriter.py", line 27, in ?
     smgr = resolver.resolve( 
"uno:socket,host=localhost,port=2002;urp;StarOffice
.ServiceManager" )
__main__.com.sun.star.connection.NoConnectException: 
Connector : couldn't connec
t to socket (WSAECONNREFUSED, Connection refused)

I simply do not understand the message. Any tip or help 
about what's going on will be welcome.

pyunoenv.bat and pyuno_setup.bat run smoothly without error 
messages.

Thanks in advance

Enrique
A cellular physiologist and "aficionado" programmer.




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun  4 14:33:44 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:33:44 +0200
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
In-Reply-To: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <20030604183344.GA17862@nl.linux.org>

=?ISO-8859-1?Q? Aur=E9lien?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9ron ?= schreef op woensdag  4 juni om 19:12:28 +0000:
> I'm new here, so maybe this is a debate that has been going on already.  If
> that's the case, please ignore this post...
> 
> ** Why isn't Python shipped with wxPython instead of Tk ? **

This has been very extensively discussed in the past. Without any
satisfactory (to me at least) conclusion though, because Python
is still shipped with Tk ;). This one, I think the first long one
and the most comprehensive, contains a lot of information:

http://www.google.nl/groups?hl=nl&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=00001667%40bossar.com.pl&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fas_q%3DTkinter%2520WxPython%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26as_ugroup%3Dcomp.lang.python%26as_uauthors%3DGerrit%2520Holl%26lr%3D%26hl%3Dnl

I am certainly not going to ignore your post, however.

> Any comments on this ? Anyone else want to vote ?

Maybe we - being the people wanting to move to WxPython - should write a PEP...

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
111. If an inn-keeper furnish sixty ka of usakani-drink to ... she
shall receive fifty ka of corn at the harvest.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Jun 26 09:51:15 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:51:15 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to write a Audio CD Player by using python only?
In-Reply-To: <bdespa$rku$1@news.seed.net.tw>
References: <bdespa$rku$1@news.seed.net.tw>
Message-ID: <20030626135115.GA4199@nl.linux.org>

MiLF wrote:
> Is it possible to write a Audio CD Player by using python only?

What do you mean with 'Python only'? Do you mean without 3rd-party libraries?

If you don't mean "without 3rd-party libraries", it's possible with te pygame
library:

http://pygame.org/docs/ref/CD.html#play

15:46:12:2:gerrit at stopcontact:~$ python
Python 2.3b1+ (#3, Jun 19 2003, 10:34:37)
[GCC 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-5)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
  0 >>> import pygame
  1 >>> pygame.init()
mcop warning: user defined signal handler found for SIG_PIPE, overriding
(6, 0)
  3 >>> cd = pygame.cdrom.CD(0) # first cd drive
  4 >>> cd.init()
  5 >>> cd.eject() # remove the CD
  6 >>> cd.get_all() # do it back in before you do this
((1, 2.0, 348.48000000000002, 346.48000000000002), (1, 348.48000000000002, 699.56000000000006, 351.07999999999998), (1, 699.55999999999995, 1390.9199999999998, 691.36000000000001), (1, 1390.9200000000001, 1936.5333333333333, 545.61333333333334), (1, 1936.5333333333333, 2951.6666666666665, 1015.1333333333333), (1, 2951.6666666666665, 4128.8400000000001, 1177.1733333333334), (1, 4128.8400000000001, 4721.1999999999998, 592.36000000000001))
  8 >>> cd.get_track_length(1)
351.07999999999998
  9 >>> cd.get_track_length(2)
691.36000000000001
 10 >>> cd.play(2) # playing...

Pygame is a cross-platform library, so this code should work on Windows and
Linux (I'm not sure whether Pygame works for the Mac, though). 

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
279. If any one by a male or female slave, and a third party claim it,
the seller is liable for the claim.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From rimbalaya at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 29 16:48:55 2003
From: rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim)
Date: 29 Jun 2003 13:48:55 -0700
Subject: using extended built-in types
Message-ID: <6f03c4a5.0306291248.325e5ecc@posting.google.com>

Hi,

When I extend a built-in type, how do I cause the extended type to
be used by default, without having to specify it? For instance, say I
extend the int type:

class myint(int):
   def foo(self): print 'foo'

How do I make all future integers use myint instead of int without explicitely
say a = myint(value)?

Thanks
- Rim



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Jun 30 06:23:38 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:23:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: converting objects to string
References: <78cae312.0306300054.5e31084e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93AA72BCD4DFEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

tompol at hotmail.com (huntermorgan) wrote in 
news:78cae312.0306300054.5e31084e at posting.google.com:

> the txt file only has this in it "1     COURSE STAFF MEMBERS"
> 
> The print out of it returns this
>>>> <?xml version="1.0" ?>
><2003 Course Outline>
>  <<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x01180C40>/>
></2003 Course Outline>
> 
> as you can see 'repr(keyRE)' doesnt work
> i would like the string "<COURSE STAFF MEMBERS>" and not 
><_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x01180C40>/
> 
> how do i do this???
> 

You would have to match the regular expression against the line you had 
read in and you could then extract the fields from the match object.

However, a better way here is simply not to use regular expressions at all. 
Just use the split method on the input string:

    for line in text:
        number, name = line.split('\t', 1)
        print number, name



-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jun  5 20:18:04 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 17:18:04 -0700
Subject: id(a) == id(b) and a is not b --> bug?
References: <mailman.1054855286.16163.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EDFDDBC.673E0F25@alcyone.com>

Gerrit Holl wrote:

> The `is' operator compares the identity of two objects; the id()
> function returns an integer representing its identity
> 
> This would mean that "id(a) == id(b)" is the same as "a is b".
	...
> $ python meta.py
> id's equal => True
> same object => False
> 
> Is this a bug? It is true both for Python 2.3b1+ and Python 2.2.

Weird as it seems, it happens in some cases where objects are
dynamically generated by the code you write, whether it looks like
you're dynamically generating objects or not.  You can see similar
things with plain old methods:

>>> class C:
...  def m(self): pass
... 
>>> c = C()
>>> c.m is c.m
0
>>> id(c.m) == id(c.m)
1

It's happening because accessing a method dynamically creates an unique
object and goes away when you're finished with it.  So when an
expression needs both at the same time (c.m is c.m), two unique objects
are created, but when an expression doesn't need both at the same time
(id(c.m) == id(c.m)), an object gets created with an ID, is destroyed,
and then a second object is created with the same ID (since the last one
just got reclaimed) and their IDs compare equal.  Weird, huh?  (It
surprised me when I first saw it, too.)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You can't expect to win unless you know why you lose.
\__/  Benjamin Lipson



From bh at intevation.de  Tue Jun 10 09:35:21 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 15:35:21 +0200
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <6qwufu12ee.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Kevin Smith <Kevin.Smith at sas.com> writes:

> Implementation Issues
> 
>     In the following example there are two function decorators: 
>     synchronized(lock) and classmethod.  
> 
>         def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
>             perform method operation
> 
>     Since these all appear within the operation of the 'def' 
>     itself, it makes sense that synchronized, lock, and 
>     classmethod must exist at the time that the definition 
>     is compiled.

*compiled*?

Surely you mean "when the def-statement is executed."

>     In addition, each of these arguments will be 
>     evaluated before being applied to the compiled function.  
>     This means that arguments like synchronized(lock) must 
>     return a descriptor that will be applied to foo.  Therefore, 
>     the code above translates to:
> 
>         def foo(self):
>             perform method operation
>         foo = classmethod(<returned-descriptor>(foo))
>     
>     In the example above, <returned-descriptor> refers to the 
>     descriptor returned by evaluating synchronized(lock).

Why not simply

        def foo(self):
            perform method operation
        foo = classmethod(synchronized(lock)(foo))

That makes it clear at which point the "synchronized(lock)" itself is
executed and that it has to return a callable object which will be
called with foo as argument without having to talk about
"returned-descriptor"s

The only thing that is not clear to me is whether it's intended that the
function is actually bound to "foo" multiple times. OTOH, I'm not sure
it would really make a difference if it were only bound once at the end.

>     It could easily be argued that the descriptors should be applied
>     in reverse order to make the application of the descriptor look 
>     more like the resultant code.  I tend to prefer this form.
> 
>         def foo(self):
>             perform method operation
>         foo = <returned-descriptor>(classmethod(foo))
> 
>     In either case, the modified function is bound to the function
>     name at compile time.

Again, I think you mean "when the def-statement is executed."

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jun 12 10:20:26 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 07:20:26 -0700
Subject: unittest: Dynamically creating tests
References: <pan.2003.06.11.23.37.20.424513@jerf.org> <mailman.1055356374.23599.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0306111309.fa4c464@posting.google.com> <3EE79E36.961098DC@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306120620.5b731105@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3EE79E36.961098DC at engcorp.com>...
> Michele Simionato wrote:
> > 
> > Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055356374.23599.python-list at python.org>...
> > >
> > > There's also
> > >     globals()['foo'] = 'bar'
> > > and, of course, exec.
> > >
> > 
> > I seems to remember (from reading the standard library)
> > that assigning directly to globals() is not recommended; am
> > I correct ? What can go wrong with this?
> 
> Are you misremembering the part about assigning to locals()
> being very bad?  I thought assigning to globals() was fine 
> technically, whether there were stylistic concerns or not.
> 
> -Peter

Ha-a! It was "locals()", indeed:

locals()

      Update and return a dictionary representing the current local
symbol table. Warning: The contents of this dictionary should not be
modified; changes may not affect the values of local variables used by
the interpreter.

I misremembered, thanks for the correction,

               Michele



From bradley at greystate.com  Sat Jun 14 05:41:25 2003
From: bradley at greystate.com (Bradley Schatz)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 19:41:25 +1000
Subject: pythonCOM with Flash
References: <RvPFa.37$zx6.1430@news.optus.net.au> <GV%Fa.2949$GU5.41737@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <TVfGa.76$zx6.3873@news.optus.net.au> <xEhGa.3736$GU5.50995@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <yhCGa.4064$eE.48214@nasal.pacific.net.au>

Thanks Mark - Distributed testing pays off again.:) What didnt work on my
work pc worked on yours and also my home pc. I am pleased to report that
events work as expected too.

> I'm uninterested in flash :)  I use Mozilla as my day-to-day browser for
> a number of reasons, and am happy that I actually need to go out of my
> way to enable flash support there.

I cant say that I have bothered to get flash working under my linux mozilla.
My primary interest is using flash as the UI for python apps (on win32 of
course). Not because I want to learn yet another gui toolkit, but because
creative types seem pretty comfortable designing really good looking UI
prototypes in flash.

A couple of sites have covered this from a VB perspective - this article
covers it in depth
http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/mx/flash/articles/flash_vb.pdf

Find a working demo attached below - click on the sphere in the flash
window, and python will respond and change the gui based on the event.

My next goal is to get this working outside of pythonwin, as a standard app.
Any further suggestions on how how to throw together a simple activex gui
container?

-Bradley




# simple flash/python application demonstrating bidirectional communicaion
between
# flash and python. Click the sphere to see behavior.
# Uses Bounce.swf from FlashBounce.zip, available from
#  http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~saul/vb_examples/tutorial12/
# make sure this .py has the right filesystem path to the swf
import win32ui, win32con, win32api, regutil
from pywin.mfc import window, activex
from win32com.client import gencache
import sys

FlashModule =
gencache.EnsureModule("{D27CDB6B-AE6D-11CF-96B8-444553540000}", 0, 1, 0)

if FlashModule is None:
 raise ImportError, "Flash does not appear to be installed."

class MyFlashComponent(activex.Control, FlashModule.ShockwaveFlash):
 def __init__(self):
  activex.Control.__init__(self)
  FlashModule.ShockwaveFlash.__init__(self)
  self.x = 50
  self.y = 50
  self.angle = 30
  self.started = 0

 def OnFSCommand(self, command, args):
  print "FSCommend" , command, args
  self.x = self.x + 20
  self.y = self.y + 20
  self.angle = self.angle + 20
  if self.x > 200 or self.y > 200:
      self.x = 0
      self.y = 0
  if self.angle > 360:
      self.angle = 0
  self.SetVariable("xVal", self.x)
  self.SetVariable("yVal", self.y)
  self.SetVariable("angle", self.angle)
  self.TPlay("_root.mikeBall")

 def OnProgress(self, percentDone):
  print "PercentDone", percentDone
 def OnReadyStateChange(self, newState):
  # 0=Loading, 1=Uninitialized, 2=Loaded, 3=Interactive, 4=Complete
  print "State", newState


class BrowserFrame(window.MDIChildWnd):
 def __init__(self, url = None):
  if url is None:
   self.url = regutil.GetRegisteredHelpFile("Main Python Documentation")
  else:
   self.url = url
  pass # Dont call base class doc/view version...
 def Create(self, title, rect = None, parent = None):
  style = win32con.WS_CHILD | win32con.WS_VISIBLE |
win32con.WS_OVERLAPPEDWINDOW
  self._obj_ = win32ui.CreateMDIChild()
  self._obj_.AttachObject(self)
  self._obj_.CreateWindow(None, title, style, rect, parent)
  rect = self.GetClientRect()
  rect = (0,0,rect[2]-rect[0], rect[3]-rect[1])
  self.ocx = MyFlashComponent()
  self.ocx.CreateControl("Flash Player", win32con.WS_VISIBLE |
win32con.WS_CHILD, rect, self, 1000)
  self.ocx.LoadMovie(0,"C:\\Projects\\flash\\Bounce.swf")
  self.ocx.Play()
  self.HookMessage (self.OnSize, win32con.WM_SIZE)

 def OnSize (self, params):
  rect = self.GetClientRect()
  rect = (0,0,rect[2]-rect[0], rect[3]-rect[1])
  self.ocx.SetWindowPos(0, rect, 0)

def Demo():
 url = None
 if len(sys.argv)>1:
  url = win32api.GetFullPathName(sys.argv[1])
 f = BrowserFrame(url)
 f.Create("Flash Player")

if __name__=='__main__':
 Demo()





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Jun 17 09:14:11 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:14:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3064b51d.0306170436.2b31f9e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns939D905D1B2A3duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote in 
news:3064b51d.0306170436.2b31f9e at posting.google.com:

> subroutine solve_lsq_svd_rmse(aa,bb,xx,rmse,ierr)
> ! solve a set of least-squares linear equations and compute the rmse
> real     , intent(in)   :: aa(:,:) ! matrix of independent variables
> real     , intent(in)   :: bb(:)   ! vector of dependent variable
> real     , intent(out)  :: xx(:)   ! solution of least-squares problem
> real     , intent(out)  :: rmse    ! rmse of regression
> integer  , intent(out)  :: ierr    ! error flag
> 
> In Python, to ensure that aa is a 2-D array and that bb and xx are 1-D
> arrays, you need to write some checking code, which will not be as
> clear as the above declarations IMO. Even if you do this, the errors
> will be caught at run time, not compile time.
> 
> (Regardless of the language, you need to check that the # of rows in
> aa equals the # of elements in bb. This usually must be done at run
> time.)

You don't need to check that xx is a 1-D array since it is a result, so 
your function just generates a 1-D array and returns it. Likewise you don't 
need to check the type of rmse, and I really hope that in Python ierr would 
disappear entirely in favour of an exception.

So you are down to the question of whether aa is a 2-D array, and whether 
bb is a 1-D array of the correct size. Rather than checking the type of aa, 
you could just try using it as a 2-D array. You will be pretty hard pushed 
to accidentally pass in something of the wrong type that produces a result 
rather than an exception.

I think you also need to distinguish not just between compile time and 
runtime, but between compile time, test time and runtime. Compile and test 
times happen (I hope) every few minutes while you are developing the 
program. If you are passing an incompatible type into a function, this 
should be caught at test time, i.e. within about 2 minutes maximum of you 
writing the call to the function.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sat Jun 28 23:11:08 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 23:11:08 -0400
Subject: code suite as first class object ?
References: <bdl57i$mo1$0@216.39.172.122> <vwsLa.7927$OE2.1069377@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <WLsLa.7930$OE2.1072860@news20.bellglobal.com>

The code in the last post looked a bit messed up on my newsreader, so here
it is again:

MyClass = object with:
    """MyClass = object(thunk), where object
        returns a class defined using thunk
    """
    __init__ = method with self, foo:
        """__init__ = method(thunk), where method
            returns a method defined using thunk
        """
        self._foo = foo

    foo = property with:
        "property foo's docstring"
        fget = with self:
            return self._foo
        fset = with self, value:
            self._foo = value

    bar = static, method with:
        "bar = static(method(thunk))"
        1.upto(10) do with i:
            print "upto() yeilds %d which is passed to ", \
                    "the thunk. The thunk is passed to do ", \
                    "(do(thunk)), where it gets executed, ", \
                    "and so you see this!" % i





From arsenal_hl at yahoo.com.hk  Sun Jun  8 07:18:25 2003
From: arsenal_hl at yahoo.com.hk (Arsenal)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 04:18:25 -0700
Subject: imghdr.what failed to identify JPEG
References: <e305e171.0306071703.79d45683@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055048975.23465.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e305e171.0306080318.5e7d08b9@posting.google.com>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055048975.23465.python-list at python.org>...
> Quoth Arsenal:
> > I have 206 jpg files. And imghdr.what returns 'None' for 52 of them,
> > and I found that actually those 52 files can be viewed perfectly with
> > an image viewer (xnview), and xnview also identifed them as JPEG
> > TrueColor(v1.1) in the File Properties.
> > 
> > Is it true that the jpg file format has more than one "identifying
> > signature" which the imghdr.what function didn't yet incorporate, and
> > hence the false negatives?
> 
> That seems a reasonable guess.
> 
> A glance at the source shows that imghdr.what identifies JPEGs
> this way:
>         if h[6:10] == 'JFIF':
> That is, the test is whether bytes 6 through 9 inclusive of the
> file are 'JFIF'.  (As the documentation notes, it identifies JPEGs
> in JFIF format specifically.)
> 
> Do your files have this property?  If not, what are these bytes?
> 
> (My magic(4), for comparison, identifies JPEGs thus:
>     0       beshort         0xffd8          JPEG image data
>     >6      string          JFIF            \b, JFIF standard
>     >6      string          Exif            \b, EXIF standard
> )

Thanks for your info.

Bytes [6:10] for my 52 jpg files are 'Exif'. So if imghdr.what adds
this additonal check, all of my jpgs would be correctly identified.

Anyways, I have used the Python Image Library (PIL) instead, which
supports a lot more image format and pretty fast too.



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sun Jun  1 12:12:26 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:12:26 -0400
Subject: Defensive programming
References: <hIqp1WAG0c2+Ew1+@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.1054463105.27128.python-list@python.org> <7xptlxq2yz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <vdk9fciarekv4d@news.supernews.com>

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:7xptlxq2yz.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> Jack Diederich <jack at performancedrivers.com> writes:
> > The author brought this up on python-dev and the 'bots did indeed
> > disect the arguments.  The verdict was that it is interesting but
not a
> > problem (or at least a solvable problem) in practice.  Specific
problems are
> > best solved at specific layers, and DoS attacks that eat CPU are
best solved
> > at the operating system level.
>
> I think there's something to be said for using collision resistant
> hashes whenever any kind of hash is needed.  Why fall back on the OS
> to get you out of trouble, when you can avoid getting in trouble in
> the first place?  I haven't read the papers yet though.

It was pretty interesting, and not at all a hard read: they used Perl as
one
of the bad cases. Python is certainly subject to the same kind of
attack,
but it's pretty easy to encapsulate whatever you want to put into a
dict in an object and use your own hash function, with parameters
that are initialized periodically. See the paper for some of the
reasoning
for how to exploit this if you don't have access to the source.

John Roth





From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Tue Jun 10 04:31:24 2003
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:31:24 +0200
Subject: Setting allowed size of text object on canvas in Tkinter
References: <mailman.1055229559.18209.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc44jr$2v8$1@news-reader14.wanadoo.fr>

Mickel Gr?nroos wrote:
> Hi everybody!
> 
> How do I force a text object to be of a required size on a canvas in
> Tkinter?
> 
> I have a Tkinter.Canvas widget onto which I have drawn a rectangle with
> create_rectangle(). Inside this rectangle I want to put a text object, but
> also make sure that the text does not overflow the rectangle's borders
> (rather, the overflow should be cut off from view). Currently I'm trying
> to do this with create_text, but that only accepts coordinates for a point
> and not for the bounding box. Any ideas?

Is this what you want?

---------------------------------
from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()
c = Canvas(root)
c.pack()
c.create_text(100, 100, text='spam spam spam spam spam', width=75)
root.mainloop()
---------------------------------

For all options for the text item in a cnavas, see:
http://dev.scriptics.com/man/tcl8.4/TkCmd/canvas.htm#M152

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com




From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Jun 10 00:03:17 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:03:17 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: PEP 318: Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <bc3g8h$e885j$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306100757070.2347-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de) wrote:

>Gerrit Holl wrote:
>> def synchonized(classmethod(foo(self)), lock)
>       ^^^^^^^
>
>I wonder what synchons are? Particles of synchronisation
>found in very fine-grained parallelism, maybe?

Probably all this fancy is needed by OOP funs to be able
to have syntactic support of all UML has in store for them.

What about this syntax then:

def m(args,...).classmethod().syncronized(lock):
  lalalalala

The new object "Function being defined" will appear as early
as def-statement and suffer all those tortures.

However, if it will go too far, "as" will be needed to know
what is being defined:

def synchonized(classmethod(method(self)), lock) as foo:
  hehehe  


>Hoping-my-python-interpreter-won't-tunnel-through-the-GIL,

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From rune.hansen at sinsenveien83.com  Tue Jun 10 10:42:01 2003
From: rune.hansen at sinsenveien83.com (Rune Hansen)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:42:01 +0200
Subject: Resolved: xmlrpc ssl (slightly embarrassing, long post)
In-Reply-To: <bbng28$amd$1@services.kq.no>
References: <bbng28$amd$1@services.kq.no>
Message-ID: <bc4qib$ipq$1@services.kq.no>

Just thought I should check in and tell you the end of this story.
After spending several hours rewriting SocketServer, BaseHTTPServer and
SimpleXMLRPCServer using the _mysterious_ OpenSSL library I found in
site-packages , I decided to roam sourceforge to see if the OpenSSL 
project existed.
Not only did it exist (as pyOpenSSL-0.5.1) but in the examples section I 
found a
SecureXMLRPCServer implementation that did exactly the same as my
implementation, only better and cleaner(in my defense, optimization
wasn't as high on the list as getting it to work - would have gotten
there, eventually, I think).
I'm sure there is a moral here somewhere...

Anyways, thanks for your time, and thanks to the people who offered help.

regards

/rune

Rune Hansen wrote:
> Hi, I'm slightly embarrassed to ask these questions, mainly because I
> fear that I've yet to full grasp the problem at hand. I'm trying to use 
> https
> in communication with a xmlrpc server. Both server and client should
> preferably be build with python. I'm reasoning that I need a
> socket.ssl() object.(BTW I've created a key and cert file with the
> help of the openssl how-to found at
> http://www.eclectica.ca/howto/ssl-cert-howto.php)
> -- 
>  >>> import socket
>  >>> s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>  >>> ssl = socket.ssl(s, 'key.pem','cert.pem')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> socket.error: (32, 'Broken pipe')
> -- 
> Now, my ignorance begins to show. This is obviously not right. After
> all, I want to use SimpleXMLRPCServer....so...I found some code on
> cz.comp.lang.python
> (http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=20030509134042.GE474%40dat.cz&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dpython%2Bsocket.ssl%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D20030509134042.GE474%2540dat.cz%26rnum%3D1) 
> 
> 
> Using this code I rewrote:
> class TCPServer(BaseServer):
>     address_family = socket.AF_INET
>     socket_type = socket.SOCK_STREAM
>     request_queue_size = 5
>     allow_reuse_address = 0
> 
>     def __init__(self, server_address, RequestHandlerClass):
>         """Constructor.  May be extended, do not override."""
>         BaseServer.__init__(self, server_address, RequestHandlerClass)
>     #OpenSSL
>         ctx = SSL.Context(SSL.SSLv23_METHOD)
>         ctx.set_options(SSL.OP_NO_SSLv2)
>         ctx.set_verify(SSL.VERIFY_PEER, verify_cb)
>         ctx.use_privatekey_file ('key.pem')
>         ctx.use_certificate_file('cert.pem')
>         self.socket = 
> SSL.Connection(ctx,socket.socket(self.address_family,self.socket_type))
> 
>         self.server_bind()
>         self.server_activate()
> 
> , blatantly ignoring the "May be extended, do not override"
> warning(!), and wrote a wrapper for SimpleXMLRPCServer(to make use of
> the new TCPServer class). Creating and starting a server based on this
> SimpleXMLRPCServer class goes witout a hitch. But when connecting to
> the server I get this traceback on the client:
>  >>> import xmlrpclib
>  >>> s = xmlrpclib.Server('https://localhost:8000')
>  >>> p = s.postnr('1411')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/xmlrpclib.py", line 821, in __call__
>     return self.__send(self.__name, args)
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/xmlrpclib.py", line 975, in __request
>     verbose=self.__verbose
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/xmlrpclib.py", line 840, in request
>     self.send_content(h, request_body)
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/xmlrpclib.py", line 876, in send_content
>     connection.endheaders()
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/httplib.py", line 695, in endheaders
>     self._send_output()
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/httplib.py", line 581, in _send_output
>     self.send(msg)
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/httplib.py", line 548, in send
>     self.connect()
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/httplib.py", line 945, in connect
>     ssl = socket.ssl(realsock, self.key_file, self.cert_file)
> socket.sslerror: (8, 'EOF occurred in violation of protocol')
> 
> And this error message on the server:
> exception happened during processing of request from ('127.0.0.1', 49579)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/SocketServer.py", line 221, in handle_request
>     self.process_request(request, client_address)
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/SocketServer.py", line 240, in process_request
>     self.finish_request(request, client_address)
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/SocketServer.py", line 253, in finish_request
>     self.RequestHandlerClass(request, client_address, self)
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/SocketServer.py", line 513, in __init__
>     self.setup()
>   File "//usr/lib/python2.2/SocketServer.py", line 553, in setup
>     self.rfile = self.connection.makefile('rb', self.rbufsize)
> NotImplementedError: Cannot make file object of SSL.Connection
> 
> 
> Did I mention that I really don't know what I'm doing? Uhm..yes, I
> believe I did. Anyways, I would be very happy if someone could
> enlighten me...
> 
> regards
> 
> /rune
> 




From haris.bogdanovic at zg.hinet.hr  Thu Jun 19 12:23:15 2003
From: haris.bogdanovic at zg.hinet.hr (Haris Bogdanovic)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:23:15 +0200
Subject: Idle font to small (RedHat)
Message-ID: <bcso25$f8rp$1@as201.hinet.hr>

How can I enlarge font in Idle ?

Thanks
Haris




From bh at intevation.de  Wed Jun 18 12:31:03 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 18:31:03 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.1.2
References: <slrnbf126d.67u.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
Message-ID: <6q1xxrpcu0.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Alexandre Fayolle <alf at fayauffre.org> writes:

> Pylint is a python tool that checks if a module satisfy a coding
> standard. Pylint can be seen as another pychecker since nearly all
> tests you can do with pychecker can also be done with Pylint. But
> Pylint offers some more features, like checking line-code's length,
> checking if variable names are well-formed according to your coding
> standard, or checking if declared interfaces are truly implemented,
> and much more (see http://www.logilab.org/pylint/ for the complete
> check list). The big advantage with Pylint is that it is highly
> configurable, customizable, and you can easily write a small plugin to
> add a personal feature.

Interesting. 

The feature I would like to see most in such a tool would be that it
doesn't try to execute the code it's checking. Just like pychecker,
pylint imports the modules it checks, unfortunately, even though it does
seem to be using some kind of parser for python code from
logilab.common. I haven't investigated it in more detail, though.


Two things I noticed:

 - You may want to indicate that it requires Python 2.2 (the default
   python version on my system was 2.1 which gave an error because the
   tokenize module doesn't have the generate_tokens function in 2.1)

 - It incorrectly says that "C" is not a valid class name in the
   following class statement:

   class C:
       pass


  Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From scook at elp.rr.com  Thu Jun 19 23:04:19 2003
From: scook at elp.rr.com (Stan Cook)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:04:19 GMT
Subject: Capture DOS error???
References: <i2cIa.32792$1w1.2496059@twister.austin.rr.com> <uadcefjhs.fsf@inout.no>
Message-ID: <oprq1pilaagkvogq@news-server.elp.rr.com>

On 19 Jun 2003 12:29:35 +0200, Syver Enstad <syver at inout.no> wrote:

> "Stan Cook" <scook at elp.rr.com> writes:
>
>> I'm writing a script which at some point will map to a list of servers.  
>> The
>> program will be keeping a log of problems it encounters to be reviewed
>> later. To map the drive, I am using:
>>
>> sDrive =
>> ["B","F","G","I","J","K","L","M","N","O","P","Q","R","S","T","U","V","W","X" 
>>
>>
>> ,"Y","Z"]
>> iIndex = 0
>> shellCmd = ""
>> for s in sImage:  # list of servers
>> shellCmd =  "map " + sDrive[iIndex] + ":=" + s
>> iIndex=iIndex + 1
>> os.system(shellCmd)
>
> Would this help:
> errorlevel = os.system(shellCmd)
> if errorlevel != 0:
> # do error stuff here

Thanks!  That was perfect.  I originally was expecting the output to be a 
string, but soon worked it all out.

Thanks again

-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/



From TDSherer at go.com  Sun Jun  8 22:53:29 2003
From: TDSherer at go.com (Thyme)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 19:53:29 -0700
Subject: Python Tkinter question
References: <2747f65c.0306081302.4ccac40@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055108236.26677.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2747f65c.0306081853.2c6cccec@posting.google.com>

Thank you!

The final problem was that it had to be declared global or it would go
out of scope before I could use it.

For a few minutes there, I almost said, Bag this - I'm going back to
Java!

Tim


"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055108236.26677.python-list at python.org>...
> "Thyme" <TDSherer at go.com> wrote:
> 
> > I've hit a bump learning to use Tkinter. Nothing I've found on line
> > has helped me nail down the problem. Any insights would be welcome.
> >
> > This is something very easy, actually - I'm trying to use the feature
> > a label is assigned a variable so that it can be automatically
> > updated. I followed the syntax I found in a Tkinter PDF on line and
> > another online doc I found.
> >
> > Here is some code:
> >
> > # File: testx.py
> > from Tkinter import *
> >
> > con1 = StringVar("Quick Question!")
>  
> >>> import Tkinter
> >>> help(Tkinter.StringVar)
> Help on class StringVar in module Tkinter:
> 
> class StringVar(Variable)
>  |  Value holder for strings variables.
>  |
>  |  Methods defined here:
>  |
>  |  __init__(self, master=None)
>  |      Construct a string variable.
>  |
>  |      MASTER can be given as master widget.
>  |
>  |  get(self)
>  |      Return value of variable as string.
>  |
>  |  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  |  Methods inherited from Variable:
>  |
>  |  __del__(self)
>  |      Unset the variable in Tcl.
>  |
>  |  __str__(self)
>  |      Return the name of the variable in Tcl.
>  |
>  |  set(self, value)
>  |      Set the variable to VALUE.
> 
> in other words, the StringVar constructor takes an optional master (parent)
> widget argument, and you must use the "set" method to change the value:
> 
>     con1 = StringVar()
>     con1.set("Quick Question!")
> 
> </F>



From pedro.werneck at bol.com.br  Fri Jun 13 16:05:06 2003
From: pedro.werneck at bol.com.br (Pedro Werneck)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 13:05:06 -0700
Subject: Type hierarchy
References: <mailman.1055514878.28221.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ef72fb2b.0306131205.3a7c5be9@posting.google.com>

> needs isinstance(o, int) or isinstance(o, long), or float... although

Maybe I'm wrong, but can't you use isinstance(o, (int, long, float)), for instance ?

And the benefits of such changes would be greater than the effort to do it ?



From Kevin.Smith at sas.com  Mon Jun  9 08:16:16 2003
From: Kevin.Smith at sas.com (Kevin Smith)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 12:16:16 GMT
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
Message-ID: <20030609081617512-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>

This is the first draft of a PEP describing new syntax for applying 
function modifiers (e.g. classmethod, staticmethod, etc).  There is 
currently no implementation of the proposed syntax (I have heard rumors 
that the 'def foo(self) [...]' syntax has a patch somewhere, but I 
haven't seen it yet).  I have already received a few comments and will 
revise the document soon.  The latest version will always be available 
at http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0318.html.


Function Modifier Syntax
------------------------

Abstract
    
    The current method for declaring class and static methods
    is awkward and can lead to code that is difficult to understand.
    This PEP introduces possible new syntax which will place the
    translation of instance methods to class/static methods at
    the same point in the code as the method's declaration. 


Motivation

    The current method of translating an instance method into a 
    class/static method places the actual translation at a different
    point in the code than the declaration of the method.  The 
    code below demonstrates this.

        def foo(self):
            perform method operation
        foo = classmethod(foo)

    When the method is very short, it is easy to look ahead and see
    that this is a class method.  However, if the method is more than
    15 lines or so, the translation into a class method is not 
    obvious.  A solution to this problem is to move the translation
    of the method to the same point as the method's declaration.


Proposal

    Probably the simplest way to place the function that translates
    an instance method to a class/static method is illustrated in the
    code below.

        def classmethod foo(self):
            perform method operation 

    The code in this example will simply perform the following.

        def foo(self):
            perform method operation
        foo = classmethod(foo)
     
    This syntax does not introduce any new keywords and is completely
    backwards compatible with any existing code.  The word between the
    'def' and the actual name of the method is simply a reference to
    a callable object that returns a new function reference. 
    This syntax could also be extended to allow multiple function 
    modifiers in the form of a space delimited list as follows:

       def protected classmethod foo(self):
           perform method operation 

    which would be equivalent to the current form:

       def foo(self):
           perform method operation
       foo = protected(classmethod(foo))

    While this syntax is simple and easy to read, it does become 
    cluttered and more obscure if you wish to allow arguments to be 
    sent to the function modifier.

       def synchronized(lock) classmethod foo(self):
           perform method operation 

    Various syntaxes have been proposed in comp.lang.python.  The
    most common are demonstrated below.

        def foo(self) [synchronized(lock), classmethod]:
            perform method operation

        def foo(self) {'pre': synchronized(lock), 'classmethod': True}:
            """ Skip Montanaro syntax """
            perform method operation

        def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
            """ Gerrit Holl syntax """
            perform method operation

    I have a strong preference for the last of the three.  The first
    two use syntax that just seems arbitrary which does not help the
    user to understand the meaning of it.  The third method is very
    readable and could probably be interpreted easily by those not
    familiar with Python.


Conclusion

    The current method of translating an instance method to a class
    or static method is awkward.  A new syntax for applying function
    modifiers should be implemented (proposed syntax shown below).  

        def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
            perform method operation

    More generally, 

        def foo(self) as <tuple>:
            perform method operation

    The proposed syntax is simple, powerful, easy to read, and 
    therefore preserves those qualities of the Python language.


Copyright

    This document has been placed in the public domain.


-- 
Kevin Smith
Kevin.Smith at sas.com



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jun  8 07:29:08 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 04:29:08 -0700
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <PbidnQB3TIQbEX-jXTWcpg@comcast.com> <l18yschlge.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <3EE31E04.B9F3C4EE@alcyone.com>

Ed Avis wrote:

> It seems a little like this conversation with a vegetarian:
> 
>     - Will you have some bacon?
>     - No thank you.
>     - Why not?
>     - I don't eat meat.
>     - Why don't you eat meat?
>     - I have already given you my explanation.

That would be surprisingly refreshing.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ God is love, but get it in writing.
\__/  Gypsy Rose Lee



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Thu Jun 12 18:05:36 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 00:05:36 +0200
Subject: Bug in v1.5.2 Websucker GUI?
In-Reply-To: <bcaqmd$eo9$1@news.hccnet.nl>
References: <7isqqi$8ki@vern.bga.com> <bc88g9$2uv$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bc9ckd$mb5$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bcajpg$9cn$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <bcaqmd$eo9$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <3ee8f931$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Anton Vredegoor wrote:

>> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470
[...]

> Thanks for pointing me to that page. However I don't like it
> (understatement deleted).
[...]

> b) If I want to save the page to my harddisk for future reference it
> makes my explorer crash because of some illegal operation.

That can hardly be SF's fault, can it?
For instance, I can save the page just fine with Mozilla.
(and IE 6 for that matter).

> c) If  want to browse the bug reports by date descending, I get an
> error "The page cannot be displayed".

No such error here. Weird. Perhapse SF had a little hick-up?


--Irmen




From philh at cabalamat.org  Thu Jun  5 19:18:19 2003
From: philh at cabalamat.org (phil hunt)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 00:18:19 +0100
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com> <bbl9ao$mnr$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbdvjtq.lp.philh@cabalamat.uklinux.net>

On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:17:46 -0400, Reginald Blue <Reginald_Blue at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Pupppy Wizzard wrote:
>> Hi. I am an old school programmer looking to modernize my skill set. I
>> want to focus on one new language. Should I choose:
>>
>> VB
>> VB.net
>> C#
>> C++
>> Python
>> Smalltalk
>> J#
>> JScript.net
>> or Java?
>
>(Yes, I know this is a troll, but I just wanted to get this in):
>
>Hi.  I'm an old school woodworker looking to modernize my skill set.  I want
>to focus on one new tool.  Should I choose:
>
>Hammer
>Screwdriver (phillips)
>Screwdriver (flat head)
>Chisel
>Rasp
>File
>Saw
>Socket Wrench
>Monkey Wrench
>or Box Wrench?

A hammer. 

A hammer is the best tool by far, we should use it for everything, 
and throw away all our screwdrivers.

-- 
Phil
The announcement by SCO last week that it intends to sue everyone 
who has ever uttered the word "Linux" is the latest in a series of 
desperate measures by SCO to be noticed. -- Humorix.org 




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun  8 14:07:11 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:07:11 -0600
Subject: program path
In-Reply-To: <3EE36B46.343D8774@engcorp.com>; from peter@engcorp.com on Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 12:58:46PM -0400
References: <fyvEa.17336$pK2.23786@news.indigo.ie> <3EE28ABC.7D6DB511@engcorp.com> <D0wEa.17343$pK2.23880@news.indigo.ie> <3EE2AD6E.933C6ED7@engcorp.com> <mailman.1055048954.23011.python-list@python.org> <3EE36B46.343D8774@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030608120711.A4608@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Peter Hansen:
  [...]
> Linux, experimentation suggests to me that if you invoke
> it from the PATH, sys.argv[0] contains the full path already
> and the abspath() call is redundant, if harmless.

On my Linux whether the path is absolute depends on whether the
relevant element of $PATH is, so the abspath() call might not be
redundant.  Example:

    $ cat tmp/foo
    #!/bin/echo
    $ PATH=tmp foo
    tmp/foo

But certainly the value seen is not $PATH-relative, which was my
concern.  (This depends on the shebang mechanism, I think; a C
program gets its name-as-invoked in argv[0].  But obviously an
interpreter named in a shebang line would in general not want a
$PATH-relative name.)

I've no clue of Windows or Mac behaviour on this point.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                     staschuk at telusplanet.net
Receive them ignorant; dispatch them confused.  (Weschler's Teaching Motto)




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Jun 18 17:16:03 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:16:03 -0500
Subject: parsing complex web pages
Message-ID: <m2znkf2ijw.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

I sometimes parse very complex web pages like

  http://biz.yahoo.com/z/a/x/xom.html

to get all the quantitative information out of them.  I find that
parsing the text is easier than parsing the html, because there is so
much extra syntax in the html that requires writing complex regexs or
parsers, whereas with the text version simple string splits and finds
often suffice.

The current strategy I use is to call lynx via popen to convert the
page to text.  If you do:

  lynx -dump http://biz.yahoo.com/z/a/x/xom.html

you'll see that the text comes back for the most part in a nicely
formatted, readily parsable layout; eg, the layout of many of the
tables is preserved.

If you do one of the standard html2txt conversions using HTMLParser
and a DumbWriter, the text layout is not as well preserved (albeit
still parsable)

    from urllib import urlopen
    import htmllib, formatter

    class Catcher:
        def __init__(self):
            self.lines = []
        def write(self, line):
            self.lines.append(line)
        def __getitem__(self, index):
            return self.lines[index]
        def read(self):
            return ' '.join(self.lines)

    def html2txt( fh ):
        oh = Catcher()
        p = htmllib.HTMLParser(
            formatter.AbstractFormatter(formatter.DumbWriter(oh)))
        p.feed(fh.read())
        return oh.read()

    print html2txt(urlopen('http://biz.yahoo.com/z/a/x/xom.html'))

I am more or less happy with the lynx solution, but would be happier
with a pure python solution.

Is there a good python -> text solution that preserves table layouts
and other visual formatting?

What do people recommend for quick parsing of complicated web pages?

John Hunter




From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Mon Jun  2 07:56:12 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:56:12 +1000
Subject: Need help with a simple server
References: <fb97d86e.0306011538.2f8a7a0a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <QXGCa.226$zb2.10767@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Sam not sure if this helps, ive just written this for a threaded server that
im going to use in an app, excuse the code but it needs exception handling
and cleaning up
hope it hepls, ive put comments in to help you

cheers

graeme

import SocketServer
import socket
import sys
from time import time, ctime
import os

PORT = 55555            #DEFAULT VALUE FOR PORT TO LISTENING ON
HOST = 'localhost'      #HOST DEFAULTS TO localhost
VERSION = 'v0.1'        #Version for this server script



#Here create your own server class and inherit from BaseRequestHandler
class AppServerHandler(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):
    """ Class for handling incoming socket requests"""

    #you must name this function handle as your overiding the inherited
handler
    def handle(self):
        """ handle overide """

        sys.stdout.flush()
        print 'CONNECTED\t[%s]\t[%s]' % (str(self.client_address),
ctime(time()))
        msg = self.request.recv(1024)
        print msg
        #print '\tRECV\t[%d]\tBYTES' % len(msg)
        #print 'Request Size [%d] bytes' % len(msg)
        self.request.send('Processed [%d] bytes' % len(msg))
        #print "\tSENT\t[%d]\tBYTES" % len(msg)


#just a little wrapper function to start server
def StartServer():

    print '[Application Server\t[RUNNING], listening for connections'
    server = SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer
    listenAddress = (HOST, PORT)
    #notice how u put your own class inside here it will be called on each
request
    server(listenAddress, AppServerHandler).serve_forever()

StartServer()


"Sam Pro" <spro1 at uic.edu> wrote in message
news:fb97d86e.0306011538.2f8a7a0a at posting.google.com...
> I am trying to write my first simple server and would like some ideas
> on improving its stability and security.  I want to write something
> that is as reliable and secure as possible and need to know what I
> need to look out for.  After the code is complete I plan on writing a
> client and piping it through something like Stunnel (SSL).  It would
> then be used for the exchange of classified data.  My biggest consern
> at this point is that if I run nmap through the port that the server
> is running I get:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "server.py", line 28, in ?
>      input = conn.recv(1024)
> socket.error: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')
>
> I can't have the server crashing at something so trivial.  It seems
> that the buffer isn't big enough to handle nmaps probe???  What should
> I do?  What other input could cause a crash like that?  As of now  I
> am just learning Python so please forgive and point out any idiotic
> mistakes or retarded code.
>
> To login to my server telnet to it (port 55000) and issue "USER sam"
> and then "sam" when prompted for the password.  After that you can
> issue "HELP" to get a list of commands.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sam
>
> ----------START CODE-----------
>
> from socket import *
> HOST = 'localhost'        # Symbolic name meaning the local host
> PORT = 55000              # Arbitrary non-privileged server
> WELCOMEMESSAGE = 'Greetings from SamServer V0.1\n'
> HELPMESSAGE = '''HELO - Display welcome message
> HELP - Display this command listing
> ECHO - Echo string (eg ECHO Hello world)
> QUIT - Exit session
> KILL - Terminate server
> '''
> serverUp = 1
> prompt = '->'
> s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
> s.bind((HOST, PORT))
> s.listen(1)
> while serverUp == 1:
>   userAuth = 0
>   print 'Waiting for connection...'
>   conn, addr = s.accept()
>   print '+++Connected by', addr, '+++'
>   while 1:                       # Login access
>       cmdstr = '<NULL>'
>       command = 'NULL'
>       conn.send(prompt)
>       input = conn.recv(1024)
>       command = input[0:4]
>       if len(input[4:]) > 2: cmdstr = input[5:len(input[4:0])-2]
>       if command == 'USER':
>         if cmdstr == 'sam':
>           conn.send('PASS: ')
>           input = conn.recv(1024)
>   if input[:-2] == 'sam':
>             userAuth = 1
>             print 'Login success by:', cmdstr
>     break
>           else:
>     print '***User', cmdstr, 'provided wrong password!', ' Tried:',
> input[:-2]
>     break
> else:
>   print '***User:', cmdstr, 'not found!'
>           break
>       else:
>         print '***ISSUED COMMAND OTHER THEN \"USER\"!'
> break
>
>   while userAuth == 1:                       # Command loop
>       cmdstr = '<NULL>'
>       command = 'NULL'
>       conn.send(prompt)
>       input = conn.recv(1024)
>       command = input[0:4]
>       if len(input[4:]) > 2: cmdstr = input[5:len(input[4:0])-2]
>       if command == 'HELO': conn.send(WELCOMEMESSAGE)
>       if command == 'HELP': conn.send(HELPMESSAGE)
>       if command == 'QUIT': break
>       if command == 'ECHO':
>            conn.send(cmdstr)
>            conn.send('\n')
>       if command == 'KILL':
>            serverUp = 0
>            break
>
>       print command, ' issued @ ', 'TIME', ' with ', cmdstr
>   conn.close()
>   print '---Connection closed to', addr, '---'





From ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk  Mon Jun 23 07:43:10 2003
From: ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:43:10 +0100
Subject: Remove duplicate letters in a word
References: <mailman.1056298500.15593.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ef6e7d9$0$45170$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>

Eliran Gonen wrote:
> 
> Hope you can help me,
> 

I know there have been several suggestions already, but here's what I'd
do...

def nodups(s):
    return filter(lambda c, seen=[]:(c not in seen) and (not
seen.append(c)), s)

HTH,
Andrew Wilkinson





From arsenal_hl at yahoo.com.hk  Sat Jun 21 06:27:00 2003
From: arsenal_hl at yahoo.com.hk (Arsenal)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 03:27:00 -0700
Subject: [Q] In-place file update with fileinput module
Message-ID: <e305e171.0306210227.58dfd969@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I want to do some in-place editing with a text file. Initially i
didn't know the name that reference the file object "abc.txt". So i
did some testing and found that sys.stdout was redirected to
"abc.txt".

and hence the following piece of test code:

for line in fileinput.input(r'abc.txt', inplace=1):
    if line.find('replaceme') >= 0:
        #replace 'replaceme' with 'done'
        sys.stdout.write('done')
    else:
        #write the line unchanged
        sys.stdout.write(line)

Is this the right (or best) way to do it with "sys.stdout.write"?

Thanks!



From googlenews at ols.inorganic.org  Tue Jun 24 06:47:31 2003
From: googlenews at ols.inorganic.org (Roy S. Rapoport)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 03:47:31 -0700
Subject: Dynamic importing
References: <533b36b0.0306212352.7c5849cb@posting.google.com> <13a533e8.0306220640.29d8a09b@posting.google.com> <533b36b0.0306222247.2a630d07@posting.google.com> <13a533e8.0306231308.5e367f5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <533b36b0.0306240247.66341f2e@posting.google.com>

p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel) wrote in message news:<13a533e8.0306231308.5e367f5 at posting.google.com>...

> >                 y = eval("x.%s()" % what)
> 
> So the above eval-statement tries to call demo.onec(), which results in
> your error below.
> Instead of this you should try:
>  **y = eval("x.%s.%s()" % (what,what) )**

Alrighty, then.  Now we're cooking with gas, and this does in fact
work.
I'm not sure I have a very strong understanding yet of why it works
(whereas the original didn't), but I'm hoping this:
> Reading http://www.python.org/doc/essays/packages.html could

will in fact clarify things.  

Thanks!

-roy



From blunck at gst.com  Mon Jun 23 22:16:29 2003
From: blunck at gst.com (Christopher Blunck)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 19:16:29 -0700
Subject: When is unit-testing bad? [was: Re: does lack of type...]
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <mailman.1055784208.22718.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1055813915.12726.python-list@python.org> <3EEE7D4C.DA0B3512@engcorp.com> <donn-2FF467.09334917062003@nntp2.u.washington.edu> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com> <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com>
Message-ID: <1147e466.0306231816.6bc042f@posting.google.com>

Well put.

The argument for unit testing that I always use goes something like
this:

You're assigned a task.  Part of that task involves requirement
investigation, and task comprehension.  Before you build a widget, you
must first understand what you're trying to build, who you are
building it for, and why they want it built.  The next more tangible
part is the design of the widget, for which there are various
approaches outside the realm of this discussion.  After design, an
implement and test activity begins.  The order of this is not
particularly significant to me, but I do prefer test before
implementation.

This is where I make my point.

As you work the problem and iterate over the implement-test cycle, you
spend time debugging.  The debugging process can be costly (how many
times is it one stinking semicolon, or the unexpected misuse of a
builtin function instead of your own that throws you for 4 hours?). 
That cost should be minimized, so that future developers do not share
in your plight.  How can you possibly pass on your knowledge w/out
representing it in test code?  You can't.

You've already chosen to make the investment in time to verify the
accuracy of your implementation.  If you're quick on the keyboard, it
only takes an extra 10% of overhead to formalize your tests in
automated regression format.  Why anyone would go 9 yards out of 10,
and then *not* represent their debugging work and testing in
regressable format is boggling.  Plus, then you get to hand over solid
proof that your module(s) behave according to design, which directly
relates to requirements.  This is your proof that you are a valuable
developer, and that you should be paid more (because you prove to your
managers that you're implementing customer requirements and that your
implementation works, which implies that your company will get
$$paid$$).

It boils down to this - visual inspection of spot test output is not a
reliable means by which to test software.  Neither is a poke and stab
approach where you flex one or two aspects of the requirements.  When
things go wrong (and they always do), a low level unit test approach
helps to eliminate ambiquity as to which modules work as designed, and
which are broken.

The real question (imo) is getting people to the level where they
recognize this view, support this view, and carry on this view so that
when you leave the project will continue to be successful.


-c


Edvard Majakari <edvard+web at majakari.net> wrote in message news:<87of0pno5s.fsf at titan.staselog.com>...
> I'm rather interested in (and fond of) unit testing as well as TDD, so I
> though to share my opinions. I once discussed TDD with my friend in here,
> and the common agreement seemed to be that TDD is not a silver bullet -
> often there are types of computational modules that are very hard to unit
> test, eg. think of graphical user interfaces or complex systems, where
> forking or threading is concerned. 
> 
> I tried to think of quick rule when to write unit tests for a module or
> not, and I only came up with this: if the whole module works like a
> set of functions (may be only one f, of course) where 
> 
> 1. Input is easily representable as native language data structures or
>    combination of those
> 
> 2. Output is easily representable as native language data structures or
>    combination of those
> 
> 3. Relationship between those two is deterministic
> 
> 
> Then I thought that if number of all (obvious) test cases is very large,
> it may not be worth it to write unit tests for all of them if the
> functions/methods concerned are simple enough.
> 
> For example, a software that reads XML and converts certain some XML
> snippets to Python data structures may contain very large number of
> combinations considering all possible valid XML files, but it may be still
> worth the trouble to write unit tests for at least most typical
> situations. You can always add more tests later.
> 
> I think one of the best things in writing unit tests is how it helps to
> avoid doing same mistakes twice. When you encounter a bug, you add
> appropriate test case to your test suite and fix it until all tests pass
> again. By running unit tests before every release you can be sure that all
> known bugs have been corrected (assuming every accepted bug results in new
> written test case).
> 
> Some people seem to have lukewarm attitude towards unit testing and
> TDD. No, TDD is not a silver bullet and neither unit testing nor TDD - or
> both combined - can guarantee a 100% bug-free software product, but it
> sure helps a lot and is a nice method in addition to many others in an
> attempt to design, implement and maintain high-quality software products.
> 
> Just my 2 cents,



From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Mon Jun 16 06:29:07 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:29:07 +0400
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
In-Reply-To: <aeqnev0ha6ludr9o0fqpouh7ghsmn2ngnv@4ax.com>
References: <16102.10640.855883.967908@montanaro.dyndns.org> <20030610190206.54459.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com> <mailman.1055526867.16928.python-list@python.org> <roy-7FFDA8.17573013062003@reader1.panix.com> <mailman.1055542227.19654.python-list@python.org> <aeqnev0ha6ludr9o0fqpouh7ghsmn2ngnv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bck65k$112m$1@news.peterlink.ru>

Tim Roberts wrote:

> In Unix, this option little more than an exercise, because most of the
> shells are so functional.  However, there is a very functional and quite
> useful Python shell for Windows called PyDOS that adds some very useful
> things, as well as allowing direct Python statements.  It's especially
> useful on Windows 98, since it adds path completion and other niceties that
> are built-in to Win2K.

Could you provide an URL? I googled for it, but I was able to find DOS 
version of Python only :(

anton.




From ericj at byu.edu  Thu Jun 12 17:00:49 2003
From: ericj at byu.edu (Eric Jensen)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:00:49 -0600
Subject: Problems with win32pdh
Message-ID: <bcapm2$d5e0$1@acs2.byu.edu>

I am trying to get the cpu utilization on a XP box.My code looks like this:

> import win32pdh
> 
> my_query = win32pdh.OpenQuery( None, 0 )
> my_counter = win32pdh.AddCounter( my_query, "\\Processor(_Total)\\% Processor Time", 0 )
> win32pdh.CollectQueryData( my_query )
> junk, percent = win32pdh.GetFormattedCounterValue( my_counter, win32pdh.PDH_FMT_LONG )
> win32pdh.CloseQuery( my_query )
> 
> print "Junk:", junk
> print "Percent: " + str( percent ) + "%"

The problem is that this always returns 99 % utilization
I tried to use the processor idle time also, but that just returns a 0% 
each time. Am I doing something wrong, or does someone have a better way 
for getting processor utilization.
Thanks,
Eric




From MK at foo.com  Fri Jun 13 07:33:49 2003
From: MK at foo.com (MK)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:33:49 +0200
Subject: OnFileOpent(self, event):
References: <bccbsn$hd50f$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <3EE9B3B2.345CBE67@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bcccqq$hqmj4$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote

[...]


Wow that was quick! c.l.p. is even better than Python! :-)
Like the language like the group!

frame.OnDBConnect(None) works, thanks!





From noah at noah.org  Mon Jun  9 18:58:41 2003
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 15:58:41 -0700
Subject: Scanning for local servers, getting a broadcast address
References: <d232c5e.0306090158.6d3c99d6@posting.google.com> <c9d82136.0306090725.1e351fe9@posting.google.com> <3ee4ae9b$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0306091458.69d7e58d@posting.google.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<3ee4ae9b$0$49113$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> Noah wrote:
> 
> > s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM, socket.IPPROTO_UDP)
> > s.bind( ('', 2003) )
> 
>             ^^
> 
> Note that on some platforms this doesn't work if you have multiple
> network addresses. You have to use either "<broadcast>" or the
> unique ip address of the network adapter you want to receive the
> broadcast packets on.
> 
> --Irmen

Ah, yes, of course. But I did not know that you could use
'<broadcast>' for the bind side. Does that tell it to
listen on all available interfaces?

Yours,
Noah



From wesc at fuzzyorange.com  Tue Jun 10 14:55:21 2003
From: wesc at fuzzyorange.com (Wesley Chun)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:55:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ANN: BayPIGgies mtg Wed Jun 11 7:30pm
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0306101147380.7208-100000@emperor.deirdre.org>

BayPIGgies: Silicon Valley-San Francisco Bay Area Python Users Group

When:     June 11, 2003 @ 7:30pm
Where:    Stanford University, Palo Alto, CA
Agenda:   BayPIGgies, OSCON/Py11, Curl, etc.

This month's an informal meeting where we all get together to shoot the
hay and talk about the future of BayPIGgies: upcoming meetings, stephen's
and chad's survey of topics, website cleanup, and future direction now
that Wesley will be preoccupied in the near-term :-).

We will also ruminate about the upcoming O'Reilly Open Source Convention
(OSCON) and Python 11 conference happening together in Portland the week
after July 4th.

Finally, anyone fiddle around with Curl and want to give a talk on it with
relationship to Python? Anyway, we'll be giving away a free copy of
"Enterprise Curl" by Paul Sheehan (Dec 2002: Addison-Wesley) for the lucky
volunteer -- talk must be presented in 2003 ;-) -- and also another
giveaway copy in a separate drawing for all attendees this month.

Come join us!

# Call For Talks: We are actively seeking speakers for BayPIGgies! If you
would like to give a talk at one of our 2003 meetings (any Python related
topic), contact us to coordinate!

more info including directions:    http://www.baypiggies.net

hope 2 c u wednesday nite!

-wesley

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall PTR, ? 2001
    http://starship.python.net/crew/wesc/cpp/

Silicon Valley-San Francisco Bay Area Python Users Group (BayPIGgies)
    http://baypiggies.net

wesley.j.chun :: wesc at deirdre.org or wesc at fuzzyorange.com
cyberweb.consulting : henderson, nv : cyberweb at rocketmail.com
http://www.roadkill.com/~wesc/cyberweb/





From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jun 27 16:00:30 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:00:30 -0500
Subject: regex plea for help
In-Reply-To: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B33CC@SRV-03>
References: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B33CC@SRV-03>
Message-ID: <16124.41566.959523.720071@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> I'm trying to process through an apache log file and bust up the
    >> individual sections into a list for further processing. There is a
    >> regex I got from a php example that matches an entire line, but
    >> obviously, that only returns a single element list. 

You perhaps want something like this:

    #!/usr/bin/env python

    import re
    import sys

    logpat = re.compile(r"(?P<host>[^ ]+) "
                        r"(?P<dash>[^ ]+) "
                        r"(?P<user>[^ ]+) "
                        r"\[(?P<timestamp>[^]]+)\] "
                        r'"(?P<method>[^ ]+) '
                        r"(?P<path>[^ ]+) "
                        r'(?P<version>[^"]+)" '
                        r"(?P<response>[0-9]+) "
                        r"(?P<size>[0-9]+)$")

    for line in sys.stdin:
        mat = logpat.match(line.strip())
        if mat is not None:
            print mat.groups()

which when run against my laptop's access_log emits lines like this:

    ('127.0.0.1', '-', 'skip', '06/Jun/2003:11:41:44 -0500', 'GET', '/nagios/cgi-bin/status.cgi?hostgroup=all', 'HTTP/1.1', '200', '11778')
    ('127.0.0.1', '-', '-', '06/Jun/2003:11:41:44 -0500', 'GET', '/nagios/stylesheets/status.css', 'HTTP/1.1', '200', '7952')

I can never remember what the second field is.  It's always been a dash in
any logfiles I've ever seen.

Skip





From code at joecheng.com  Tue Jun  3 18:13:32 2003
From: code at joecheng.com (Joe Cheng)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 15:13:32 -0700
Subject: GIL and uniprocessor machines
References: <20d6d41f.0306030415.18f4c093@posting.google.com> <bbi8di$3es$1@panix1.panix.com> <m3fzmrdmx6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20d6d41f.0306031413.6fd482a1@posting.google.com>

> > You're half-right.  However, even on a single-CPU machine, handling
> > multiple I/O requests concurrently does give a speed boost, which is why
> > Python has a mechanism for releasing the GIL in C extensions -- and all
> > the reentrant-capable I/O calls in the standard library release the GIL.
> 
> More generally, in a single processor machine, the system may be able
> to switch threads at a time it considers appropriate. With the GIL,
> the system's choice of alternative new threads is reduced to
> non-Python threads, unless the active Python thread has released the
> GIL.

Makes sense.  Thanks, both of you!



From Dan.Pop at cern.ch  Wed Jun  4 11:14:55 2003
From: Dan.Pop at cern.ch (Dan Pop)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 15:14:55 GMT
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbl2df$rtp$9@sunnews.cern.ch>

In <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8 at posting.google.com> PupppyWizzard at glay.org (Pupppy Wizzard) writes:

>Hi. I am an old school programmer looking to modernize my skill set. I
>want to focus on one new language. Should I choose:
>
>VB
>VB.net
>C#
>C++
>Python
>Smalltalk
>J#
>JScript.net
>or Java?

                               _____________________
                   /|  /|     |                     |
                   ||__||     |    Please do not    |
                  /   O O\__  |      feed the       |
                 /          \ |       Trolls        |
                /      \     \|_____________________|
               /   _    \     \      ||
              /    |\____\     \     ||
             /     | | | |\____/     ||
            /       \|_|_|/   |     _||
           /  /  \            |____| ||
          /   |   |           |      --|
          |   |   |           |____  --|
   * _    |  |_|_|_|          |     \-/
*-- _--\ _ \                  |      ||
  /  _     \\        |        /      `'
*  /   \_ /- |       |       |
  *      ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________


Yet, I still have to figure out the presence of rec.woodworking and the
absence of a Java newsgroup in the Newsgroups line.

Dan
-- 
Dan Pop
DESY Zeuthen, RZ group
Email: Dan.Pop at ifh.de



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 17 13:49:51 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:49:51 -0700
Subject: Python as a Language Choice
References: <bckvg4$kdoar$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <hifsevksoqegp0hiun38onurbceteo8m48@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bcnk9r$kop7l$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

| ...
| Power to punch yes, but I don't care how many lines of code.
|
| I'd sooner quickly write a dozen lines of nice clear Python
| than spend hours agonising over one line of indecipherable APL
| to do the same job.
| ...

Tim ...

I experimented with APL briefly back in the early 1970s
under IBM VM/CMS using a Tektronix graphics terminal ...

After a couple of weeks, I could  ALMOST  begin to deciper
SOME of the individual symbol-widgets, but when I encountered building
subroutines by back-spacing and typing sets of other symbol-widgets
on top of each other I began looking elsewhere even though
I did like some of the APL concepts ...

Python is the most readable programming language I've encountered
since beginning programming with Fortran in 1966 ...

Thanks for your comments ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jun 19 21:09:59 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 02:09:59 +0100
Subject: cgi getlist() problem (my first python program)
References: <3EF1CFC0.2010803@yahoo.com> <3EF1DA5E.AC6C4F68@hotmail.com> <3EF216A2.8040508@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87wufhh7vc.fsf@pobox.com>

Gobo Borz <goboborz at yahoo.com> writes:
[...]
> Being new to Python, it was good to learn this wasn't an oversight in
> the Python cgi module. I determined I can work around the problem by
> using the clumsy method of inserting a placeholder character in each
> blank field on the client side with javascript.  This should work
> unless the browser mangles the order of the fields.

But why do that?  Clumsy, as you say.


>  > One way to approach the problem is by numbering the fields in your
>  > HTML form, like so
>  >
>  > <form>
>  >   <td>
>  >     <input name="name1">
>  >     <input name="phone1">
>  >   </td>
>  >   <td>
>  >     <input name="name2">
>  >     <input name="phone2">
>  >   </td>
>  > </form>
> 
> I didn't want to use this approach because I thought I would have to
> use eval() or something like that on the server side to build the
> field name during iteration.

eval??  I must be misunderstanding what your problem is.  You do
realise that variable names in a program don't have to match the names
you put in your markup, right?


> Maybe there's an easier way in Python to
> iterate through a list of names like this,

...or in any language!  If I understand your problem correctly, you
just iterate over a range of integers.

print "<form>"

nr_people = 2

for i in range(nr_people):
    print "  <td>"
    print '    <input name="name%d">' % i
    print '    <input name="phone%d">' % i
    print "  </td>"

print "</form>"


> but I didn't find any
> examples when I looked in the manual and searched google.  Hopefully

Why *would* you expect to find an example that exactly matches your
particular problem?


John



From clifford.wells at attbi.com  Wed Jun  4 03:27:02 2003
From: clifford.wells at attbi.com (Cliff Wells)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 00:27:02 -0700
Subject: PySerial rereads its own data
In-Reply-To: <bbjl2p$a1ndg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
References: <mailman.1054592105.28065.python-list@python.org>
	 <3EDBE18C.2C58B42E@engcorp.com>
	 <mailman.1054662920.14931.python-list@python.org>
	 <bbjl2p$a1ndg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <1054711622.25656.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 2003-06-03 at 19:42, Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de) wrote:
> Cliff Wells wrote:
> >>>My question is this:  why do I get back the data I just wrote?  More to
> >>>the point, how do I stop it?
> 
> I missed your original post, so this is just a guess, but
> are you by any chance trying to use the same file object
> to both read and write the serial port?
> 
> I made that mistake once in C, and I got exactly that
> symptom. It seems that stdio gets its buffering in a
> knot if you try to do that.

Yeah, I've had that problem before (with both C and Python).  In this
case I was reading and writing to ttyS0 via PySerial and reading ttyS1
via 'cat /dev/ttyS1'.  ttyS1 and ttyS0 are connected via a null-modem
cable (this is a test setup).

When I wrote to ttyS0 (from PySerial) the data was correctly displayed
via the cat process.  However, if I then read from ttyS0 via PySerial I
would get back the same data even though cat was clearly not writing
anything.

Anyway, I've discovered since that it only happens when using cat
(having another PySerial process doesn't have this problem).  Even
though 'stty -F /dev/ttySn' didn't show any odd flags, I'm guessing that
somehow some echoing was enabled.   PySerial explicitly disables echoing
on ttyS0, so I'm guessing some default setting on ttyS1 was causing the
data to get reflected back to ttyS0.  Not really an educated guess but
my concern about it disappeared when I discovered I wouldn't be facing
that problem anyway (unless I use cat in my production code <wink>).

Cliff





From itsmikeytime at hotmail.com  Wed Jun  4 14:39:18 2003
From: itsmikeytime at hotmail.com (Mikey At Work)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:39:18 -0400
Subject: Importing mdl files into OpenGl with Python
Message-ID: <bblecn$b02$1@news-int.gatech.edu>

Does anyone know any simple ways to import mdl files into OpenGL using
Python?  Any modules out there that will do this for me?  Thanks.





From fjoanis at videotron.ca  Fri Jun  6 09:25:23 2003
From: fjoanis at videotron.ca (Francis Joanis)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 06:25:23 -0700
Subject: Raising an exception from a multithreaded embedded Python interpreter trace function
Message-ID: <72e160f2.0306060525.54e6aa78@posting.google.com>

Hi everyone,

I managed to embed python into a multithreaded gnu C++ app (class
ThreadedPythonInterpreter). Basically, the app can instantiate python
interpreters, each of them running in a separate thread.

Each python interpreter thread (class PythonThread) has a static trace
function. One of the trace function's parameters is an integer ID
(passed using *obj parameter) that enables the static trace function
to know which embedded python interpreter is calling it.

Inside the trace function I check a boolean variable associated with
the current calling interpreter. If the boolean variable is set to
true, I want the calling interpreter process to stop executing python
code.

What I was thinking about is generating a KeyboardInterrupt exception
inside the trace function, i.e.:

int PythonThread::traceFunc(PyObject *obj, PyFrameObject *frame, int
what, PyObject *arg) {
	if(!((ThreadedPythonInterpreter*)pParent)->getThread(PyInt_AsLong(obj))->threadCanRun())
	
	PyErr_Format(PyExc_KeyboardInterrupt,"");
	
	return 0;
}

The problem is that the PyErr_Format(...) call just does not seem to
do anything. I don't have any try/except blocks into the running
scripts and I believe my PyThreadState_Swap and PyEval_AcquireLock
(...) calling schemes are OK since I am able to run scripts in
separate threads.

Any hints?

Thank you,

Francis Joanis



From dave at technopagan.org  Mon Jun  2 22:11:54 2003
From: dave at technopagan.org (David E. Smith)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 02:11:54 +0000
Subject: CFV: comp.databases.berkeley-db
Message-ID: <1054606314.6246@isc.org>

                     FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
             unmoderated group comp.databases.berkeley-db

Newsgroups line:
comp.databases.berkeley-db	The Berkeley DB libraries.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 24 Jun 2003.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party.  Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Philip Greer <philip at tildesoftware.com>
Proponent: Dave Segleau <dave at sleepycat.com>
Votetaker: David E. Smith <dave at technopagan.org>


RATIONALE: comp.databases.berkeley-db

There is not a specific Usenet location for discussions on berkeley
database management software (from this point forward I'll refer to as
just 'berkeley-db'). Discussion pertaining to the library occurs on
many other other Usenet forums. Often writings are specific to
berkeley-db itself and does not pertain to the subject matter of the
group the discussion falls within. Not only would a berkeley-db
specific forum provide a central location for todays frequent Usenet
users, it would also provide an on-line research tool for those
seeking on-line issue assistance with the library. Entities such as
Google will provide archives of group postings, and search tools for
those seeking answers to berkeley-db questions - drawing those on-line
that were not aware of the Usenet group (or of net news as a whole).
>From the "Berkeley DB Reference Guide: Introduction": '[berkeley-db]
runs under almost all UNIX and Linux variants, Windows, and a number
of embedded real-time operating systems. It runs on both 32-bit and
64-bit systems. It has been deployed on high-end Internet servers,
desktop machines, and on palmtop computers, set-top boxes, in network
switches, and elsewhere.' As well, berkeley-db has been a tool
available to the programming community for over ten years and
is used on a global scale with over 200 million installations. The
need for an on-line, central location for community discussions has
been long standing. Usenet is the best tool to fulfill this need and
allows addressing this need on a global scale.


CHARTER: comp.databases.berkeley-db

The newsgroup comp.databases.berkeley-db is a news forum devoted to
the discussion of the berkeley database management library. Discussion
entails, but is not limited to: its usage in all programming languages
that can utilize it, bugs, patches, tricks, techniques, support,
announcements; all in a free and open atmosphere.
All postings should be in ordinary text format only. Postings of
binaries (or encoding thereof) is highly discouraged. Cross-posting of
articles irrelevant to the berkeley database library is also
discouraged. The berkeley-db newsgroup is not moderated. Therefore it
is up to the global user base to police its usage.

END CHARTER.


IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES: READ THIS BEFORE VOTING

The purpose of a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest in
reading the proposed newsgroup, and soliciting votes from uninterested
parties defeats this purpose.  Do *not* distribute this CFV;  instead,
direct people to the official CFV as posted to news.announce.newgroups.
Distributing specific voting instructions or pre-marked copies of
this CFV is considered vote fraud.

This is a public vote:  All email addresses, names and votes will be
listed in the final RESULT post.  The name used may be either a real
name or an established Usenet handle.

At most one vote is allowed per person or per account.  Duplicate
votes will be resolved in favor of the most recent valid vote.

Voters must mail their ballots directly to the votetaker.  Anonymous,
forwarded, or proxy votes are not valid, nor are votes mailed from
WWW/HTML/CGI forms (which should not exist).  Votes from nonexistent
accounts or with munged, spam-blocked, or undeliverable addresses are
invalid and will NOT be counted.

Please direct any questions to the votetaker at <dave at technopagan.org>


HOW TO VOTE:

Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines.  Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts.  Please, DO NOT send the entire CFV back to me!

Fill in the ballot as shown below.  Please provide your real name
(or established Usenet handle) and indicate your desired vote in the
appropriate locations inside the ballot.

Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:

  [ YES     ]  example.yes.vote
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If you do, the voting software will probably reject your ballot.

When finished, MAIL the vote to <cdbvote at technopagan.org>
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.
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======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: comp.databases.berkeley-db
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot [CDB-42-1] (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected. Established
| Usenet handles are also acceptable.  Place ONLY your name (ie. do NOT
| include your e-mail address or any other information; ONLY your name)
| after the colon on the following line:

Voter Name:

| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):

 Your Vote   Newsgroup
 ---------   -----------------------------------------------------------
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======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============


DISTRIBUTION:

This CFV will be posted to the following newsgroups:

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Pointers to the CFV will be posted to the following newsgroups:

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From dwblas at yahoo.com  Tue Jun  3 14:32:56 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (DavidW Blaschke)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:32:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: reading files in folder
In-Reply-To: <1054664890.15.35656.m11@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <20030603183256.448.qmail@web21609.mail.yahoo.com>

Here are links that demonstrate os.path.walk.  Note
the use of isfile to distinguish between files and
directories.
  
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/viewphtml/aid/3380/fid/481
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/4541/fid/538
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/4343/fid/538
  
The faqts database has a lot of normal use code.  I
used it a lot when I first started programming in
Python.  The search engine doesn't seem to be
working so you have to page through "Common Problems",
Snippets", etc.
  
Good Luck
David
  
> > --- In python-list at yahoogroups.com, ataraxia2500
> > <messageboardfan1 at y..
> > .> wrote:
> > > I would like to make a function that do
> something
> > to all the text 
> > files that
> > > are in a folder and if that folder contains
> other
> > folders with text 
> > files
> > > the functions would also modify those text
> files. 
> > > is there a simple function that do that?
> > > 
> > > thanx in advance  
> > > -- 
> > >
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to
> Outlook(TM).
> http://calendar.yahoo.com
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun  8 14:07:26 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:07:26 -0600
Subject: program path
In-Reply-To: <3EE36E0D.3050604@ghaering.de>; from gh@ghaering.de on Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 07:10:37PM +0200
References: <fyvEa.17336$pK2.23786@news.indigo.ie> <3EE28ABC.7D6DB511@engcorp.com> <D0wEa.17343$pK2.23880@news.indigo.ie> <3EE2AD6E.933C6ED7@engcorp.com> <mailman.1055048954.23011.python-list@python.org> <3EE36B46.343D8774@engcorp.com> <3EE36E0D.3050604@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <20030608120726.B4608@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Gerhard H?ring:
  [...sys.argv[0] test in WinXP...]
> C:\>tmp\x.py
> C:\tmp\x.py

What happens if %PATH% includes c:\tmp, and you invoke it simply
as 'x.py', from some other directory?

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "The world will end if you get this wrong."
staschuk at telusplanet.net     -- "Typesetting Mathematics -- User's Guide",
                                 Brian Kernighan and Lorrinda Cherry




From pwmiller1 at adelphia.net  Sun Jun  1 13:23:41 2003
From: pwmiller1 at adelphia.net (Paul Miller)
Date: 1 Jun 2003 10:23:41 -0700
Subject: Defensive programming
References: <hIqp1WAG0c2+Ew1+@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.1054463105.27128.python-list@python.org> <7xptlxq2yz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <2e363c08.0306010923.a08627f@posting.google.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message news:<7xptlxq2yz.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
> Jack Diederich <jack at performancedrivers.com> writes:
> > The author brought this up on python-dev and the 'bots did indeed
> > disect the arguments.  The verdict was that it is interesting but not a
> > problem (or at least a solvable problem) in practice.  Specific problems are 
> > best solved at specific layers, and DoS attacks that eat CPU are best solved
> > at the operating system level.
> 
> I think there's something to be said for using collision resistant
> hashes whenever any kind of hash is needed.  Why fall back on the OS
> to get you out of trouble, when you can avoid getting in trouble in
> the first place?  I haven't read the papers yet though.

What in the world are collision resistant hashes?  It seems to me that
a certain number of collisions are all but guaranteed for any given
hash table size, depending on the range of the input.  For example, if
you are hashing strings consisting of size 11 consisting of [A-Z] (DOS
style file names, for example) into a table of size 5693 (a reasonable
value, being a prime and all), then I would expect there to be a
sequence of filenames that could generate a collision on every insert.
 The simple reason is that there are 5693 spaces in the table and 3.67
x 10^15 possible inputs, so at least 6.44 x 10 ^ 11 inputs must hash
to one of those 5693 spaces in the table by the pigeonhole principle.

Of course, the hash table would have to grow many times if you tried
to insert 6.44 x 10 ^ 11 filenames into it, but that would just chew
more CPU.



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Jun 20 18:45:45 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:45:45 +0100
Subject: sourceforge problems
References: <oP+b0PA97r8+Ew0C@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <m3llvwd2wp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <oc3rgJAZ648+Ewl6@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <m3llvwd2wp.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>, Martin v.
L?wis <martin at v.loewis.de> writes
>Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
....
>There might be a way to migrate the CVS off SF. This is work in
>progress, and I doubt it will happen before Python 2.3 is released (we
>can't migrate repositories in the middle of a beta release
>cycle). OTOH, SF has promised that they will add new hardware to CVS
>in August, so the problem will go away one way or the other. At the
>moment, I doubt there is much we can do.
>
>So no, it won't have a bad effect in the long term.
>
>Regards,
>Martin
well andy at rep***lab.com routinely uses pserver to do his checkins, with
a 24 hour gap that is certainly a problem :(

It seems that ssh is the way to go. We have systems where ssh 1 is not
the default, but on win32 our clients all seem to be stuck on rsa 1.
-- 
Robin Becker



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jun  3 23:22:28 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 20:22:28 -0700
Subject: Whre is my object ??
References: <bbj4p4$f8n$1@news1.ucsd.edu> <bbjb8b$hds$1@panix1.panix.com> <bbjch9$ihp$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <3EDD65F4.E910F7A0@alcyone.com>

King Kuta wrote:

> I bet the base question is: Will my object be garbage-collected?

In the code example you showed, no.

> I mean once I delete it it is no more referenced, right?

Not necessarily.  In Python, the "del" statement (when applied to an
atomic variable name rather than an indexed name) merely eliminates that
name as a reference to the object.  But in Python, objects are garbaged
collected at some unspecified point after the last reference to them is
lost.  So because your object already has a reference to it elsewhere,
it is not going to be garbage collected.

> I can still manipulate it till it exist, because I have a pointer to
> its
> instance, but when (and most of all if) python checks for bindings it
> will
> find the object is not any more referenced to by any name.

Python is "safe" in this respect; the object won't be destroyed until
the last reference to it goes away.  Thus it's valid to use it if you
still have a reference to it; once there are no more references to it in
the interpreter, the object will be collected, but by definition you
won't have any references to it at that point anyway so no harm can be
done.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ My reputation grows with every failure.
\__/  George Bernard Shaw



From kvtor at yahooremove.com  Tue Jun 17 01:34:22 2003
From: kvtor at yahooremove.com (Pat)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:34:22 -0500
Subject: Looking for Info on installing Python and wxPython on a disk.
Message-ID: <veta0f2uce3ide@corp.supernews.com>

Hello, I've been trying to find it myself but no luck yet. The problem is
that a friend of mine uses a library computer and is not allowed to install
anything on it. He wants to know if there is a way to install python,
wxpython and another program on a cd and be able to run it from a windows os
machine. I told him that I would look around and see what I can find out.
Neither of us are very good programmers, still learning the basics of python
myself and he wants to start.

If any one can point me to the site, I would be very grateful.

Thank you,
Pat (newbie)





From boris_genz at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 19 12:42:25 2003
From: boris_genz at hotmail.com (Boris Genz)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:42:25 +0200
Subject: (newbie)list conversion problem
References: <bcsc56$9k0$1@sunce.iskon.hr> <mailman.1056029679.30434.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.19.18.42.25.116551.3836@hotmail.com>

On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:30:46 +0200, Gerrit Holl wrote:

> group = [int(elem) for elem in x]
> group = map(int, x)
> 
> 
Thanks Gerrit, this one works perfectly;) Thanks everyone. I knew there
was something about that loop, I tried to put group = [] out of the loop,
but because the previous list was created with re.split statement, loop
created the list for every number plus next number in the list so the
final number of the lists was equal to the number of numbers (It's hard to
explain, but it's important to note that I didn't get what I needed:) But
everything works now...

>> P.S. My English is poor but I hope you understand me;)
> 
> I understand you perfectly - assumed I have answered your question ;)

Well it's nice to hear that;) Thanks again, Boris



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jun  9 21:09:48 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 03:09:48 +0200
Subject: Scanning for local servers, getting a broadcast address
In-Reply-To: <c9d82136.0306091458.69d7e58d@posting.google.com>
References: <d232c5e.0306090158.6d3c99d6@posting.google.com> <c9d82136.0306090725.1e351fe9@posting.google.com> <3ee4ae9b$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <c9d82136.0306091458.69d7e58d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3ee52fdc$0$49111$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Noah wrote:
> Ah, yes, of course. But I did not know that you could use
> '<broadcast>' for the bind side. Does that tell it to
> listen on all available interfaces?

Well, in my opinion, it should. The problem is that certain
OS-ses (windows, mac os X) with certain Python implementations
decide otherwise, and return an error ("cannot assign requested
address" or such). In that case, '' usually *does* work.
Binding on the ip address always works, but you'll only get
broadcast packets that are sent to *that* adapter.

--Irmen




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Mon Jun 30 03:32:34 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:32:34 +1000
Subject: What am I doing wrong here?
In-Reply-To: <7sNLa.30264$Kg7.14786@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
References: <7sNLa.30264$Kg7.14786@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <20030630073234.GB16325@frobozz>

On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 02:42:11AM +0000, Bill C. Wong wrote:
> ################################
> def func( s ):
>     s1, s2 = s.split( ' ', 1 )
>     try:
>         raise s1
>     except "aaaa":
>         print 'except "aaaa"'
>     except:
>         print 'except:'
> 
> s = "aaaa "
> func( s )
> ################################
> If I manually assign s1 with s1 = "aaaa", then it works fine! What am I
> doing wrong here?

What's wrong is you're using string exceptions ;)

Try adding an 's1 = intern(s1)' before the raise statement -- string
exceptions are compared by identity, not equality, iirc.

I think you'd be better off using normal exceptions, though...

-Andrew.





From http  Sun Jun  1 10:36:36 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 01 Jun 2003 07:36:36 -0700
Subject: Defensive programming
References: <hIqp1WAG0c2+Ew1+@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.1054463105.27128.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xptlxq2yz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jack Diederich <jack at performancedrivers.com> writes:
> The author brought this up on python-dev and the 'bots did indeed
> disect the arguments.  The verdict was that it is interesting but not a
> problem (or at least a solvable problem) in practice.  Specific problems are 
> best solved at specific layers, and DoS attacks that eat CPU are best solved
> at the operating system level.

I think there's something to be said for using collision resistant
hashes whenever any kind of hash is needed.  Why fall back on the OS
to get you out of trouble, when you can avoid getting in trouble in
the first place?  I haven't read the papers yet though.



From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Mon Jun 30 03:50:37 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:50:37 +1000
Subject: using extended built-in types
In-Reply-To: <m3u1a8utbd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <6f03c4a5.0306291248.325e5ecc@posting.google.com> <m3u1a8utbd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20030630075036.GC16325@frobozz>

On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 05:40:06AM +0200, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim) writes:
> 
> > How do I make all future integers use myint instead of int without
> > explicitely say a = myint(value)?
> 
> That is not possible.

If only ;)

If your tolerance for evil is sufficiently high, you could use intrinisics,
a hack by Jp Calderone...
    
PyCon lightning talk: 
    http://www.intarweb.us:8080/PyCon/intrinsics-lightning-0.xhtml

Source:
    http://www.intarweb.us:8080/evil/intrinsics.c

-Andrew.





From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sat Jun 14 10:00:50 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 16:00:50 +0200
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com> <vehf3d38h6tn85@news.supernews.com> <bcdj6v$cc6$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bcf9va$kt5$1@news.hccnet.nl>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>I just thought to dig this up and turn it into a generator.
>Something to check against ;-)

<snip pigen.py>

Thanks for posting. After playing a while with it I noticed that the
new itertools for Python23 are nice for this too. The version below
doesn't use "n" and "k" in the generator and computes p and q in a
for-loop. Also d and d1 are dropped for the sake of clarity, at the
cost of computing just one extra a/b. 

Anton

from sys import stdout
from itertools import count,islice,imap

def pq(x): return x*x,2*x+1
    
def pigen():
    a,b,c,d = 12,4,76,24
    for p,q in imap(pq,count(3)):
        while a/b == c/d:
            yield str(a/b)
            a,c = a%b*10, c%d*10
        a,b,c,d = c,d,p*a+q*c,p*b+q*d

def test():
    ndigits = 60
    map(stdout.write,islice(pigen(),ndigits))
    print

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jun  3 05:18:03 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 05:18:03 -0400
Subject: sandboxing python code
References: <fd3e3161.0306030111.39ea5ce6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EDC67CB.43C97284@engcorp.com>

"ben at transversal.com" wrote:
> 
> I've recently (6 months or so) been converted to Python, and so have
> become an avid reader of this newgroup. One thing that has been brought up
> occasionally by other people, but never has really been answered
> satisfactorily is the problem of running untrusted code.
> 
> I have been interested in writing a web based program where some "clients"
> would be able to enter code via a web interface which would then be
> executed on the server machines. Obviously I don't trust this code, so I
> want not only to be able to stop people from importing unwanted libraries,
> but also from writing infinite loops or using up infinite memory. There
> are a couple of ways I can think of doing this:
[snip]
> Thanks for taking the time to read this.

More information about the types of "clients" and the nature of the
application would be helpful.  Are these users authenticated with
a password of some kind?  Is the application going to have some kind
of full access to the computer, or can it be run in its own sandbox?

What would happen if you were to log uploaded code along with the user
who uploaded it and simply blacklist that user if he/she/it abused
the privilege of access to your server?

Also, have you considered what other systems do in such cases?  What
would you do on a Java system to prevent DOS or memory attacks?

I think the answers to these sorts of questions could be quite 
instructive in guiding you to an appropriate solution.  Usually the
solution can be less all-encompassing than you might have thought at
first.

-Peter



From fuka at fuxoft.cz  Wed Jun  4 02:45:42 2003
From: fuka at fuxoft.cz (Frantisek Fuka)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 08:45:42 +0200
Subject: JavaScript parser in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054702568.9014.python-list@python.org>
References: <hDeDa.9103$945.25982@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> <mailman.1054702568.9014.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbk4m4$1k2n$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-06-04 at 02:32, Carl Waldbieser wrote:
> 
>>Does anyone know of a Python module that can parse a JavaScript source file?
>>I am intersted in checking the file to see if it is syntactically correct,
>>as well as possibly stripping out whitespace and comments.  I found a couple
>>JavaScript compression utilities after doing a Google search, but many of
>>them are themselves written in JavaScript, execute in a browser, and tend to
>>be somewhat slow for very large JavaScript files.  A pythonic solution has a
>>certain appeal to me because I have always found Python very easy an
>>intuitive to use in the past.  Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> Well, I think that Javascript has tokens that pretty much match
> Python's, except for whitespace.  That at least would make compression
> fairly easy, though a more general parser would be able to do more.

And what about Python script that could disassemble the compiled Java 
file into the primitive "Java-assembler" instructions? (i.e. not Java 
source)




From mariusvdwalt at ananzi.co.za  Wed Jun  4 03:35:54 2003
From: mariusvdwalt at ananzi.co.za (Marius)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 00:35:54 -0700
Subject: Submitting a Form with Querystring as action
Message-ID: <ebf898fb.0306032335.649bf341@posting.google.com>

Hi

I am trying to redirect to a specific page from a button click, after
a user selects an option from a DDLB. I want to then append the
associated value of the selected value to the
action="bannerclicks.asp?ID=" part of the code.
I have tried all the ways I know, but I cannot get it to work, Please
help!

Herewith the relevant code:
<form name="Form1" method="post"
action="Bannerclicks.asp?ID=<%Request.Form("Company")%>">
    <input type="text" name="Company" value="0">
	 <select name="BannerSelect"
onChange="MM_callJS('document.Form1.Company.value=document.Form1.BannerSelect.options[document.Form1.BannerSelect.selectedIndex].value;')">
	 
	 <option value="0" selected>Select a Company</option>
	 <%
While (NOT RSBanners.EOF)
%>
	 <option value="<%=(RSBanners.Fields.Item("ID").Value)%>"><%=(RSBanners.Fields.Item("Company").Value)%></option>
	 <%
  RSBanners.MoveNext()
Wend
If (RSBanners.CursorType > 0) Then
  RSBanners.MoveFirst
Else
  RSBanners.Requery
End If
%>
      </select>
	 <input type="submit" name="Search" value="Search">
	  
    </form>



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jun  5 14:06:49 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 19:06:49 +0100
Subject: using urllib or httplib to post with ENCTYPE=mulitpart/form-data
References: <mailman.1054758548.9033.python-list@python.org> <87he751jla.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1054782491.12301.python-list@python.org> <bbmlee$kk6$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <mailman.1054823291.20112.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87of1cs8jq.fsf@pobox.com>

Kevin Carlson <khcarlso at bellsouth.net> writes:
[...]
> >According to Kevin Carlson  <khcarlso at bellsouth.net>:
> >
> >> I actually only need to send a couple of text inputs to the form,
> >> but no matter what, the host system acts like I input nothing into
> >> the form.  I have tried this:
[...]
> Thanks for help on this one -- I got the first POST working.  It was a
> problem with formatting the multipart/form-data.  Once I got the
> proper format it worked fine.  Interesting you should bring up
> cookies, though...

And as I just replied to Kevin, though he successfully solved the
problem by sniffing browser traffic (certainly often the quickest way
to get something working, though things can get messy that way), I
just realised that, contrary to my own statment, ClientForm *would*
have worked (barring bugs...).  I forgot that the whole form gets sent
back as multipart/form-data.  You don't need any FILE control for it
to work, and as long as the HTML says to use that encoding (or you ask
for it explicitly), it should work fine (the alpha version, that is).


> The response from the POST returns a cookie that I need to pass along
> to the host on the subsequent request.  I don't see and methods in
> httplib to deal with cookies directly, nor can I find any in the
> HTTPResponse.py source that allow me to extract the cookie from the
> response.  I'm sure I'm missing something.  Any additional pointers?

http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientCookie/

:-)

If this is a public site, please let me know the URL: I haven't found
a public site that doesn't require a signup and that uses both cookies
and forms that would be good for example code (not that I've looked
very hard...).


John



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jun 22 20:56:01 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:56:01 -0700
Subject: Steaming PDF from Python Script to IE
References: <4b46139c.0306211630.1aeb3ffa@posting.google.com> <bd42lm$8f84$1@as201.hinet.hr> <4b46139c.0306221623.c23d067@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF65021.B150CA5D@alcyone.com>

Nathan Treloar wrote:

> ... doesn't work, but:
> 
>     out = open("test.pdf", "rb").read()
>     print 'Content-type: application/pdf\n\n',
>     print out,
> 
> and
> 
>     out = open("test.pdf", "rb").read()
>     sys.stdout.write('Content-type: application/pdf\n\n')
>     sys.stdout.write(out)
> 
> work.

It's really just luck that the first one works; if it were a true binary
format (one that wasn't insensitive to whitespace padding), the first
form wouldn't work either.  (It inserts spaces before and after the PDF
data.)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nothing is potent against love save impotence.
\__/  Samuel Butler



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sat Jun 21 20:19:02 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:19:02 +0200
Subject: Executable pyhton script
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1056239797.7162.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1056239797.7162.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ef4f5f3$0$49105$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

sevri oh sevri wrote:
> I want my python script being executable.

On my computer, I can just doubleclick a Python script (windows),
or run it from the shell prompt when it has the execute bit set (linux).

What exactly is not working?

--Irmen




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jun 13 17:18:38 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 21:18:38 GMT
Subject: Octets calculation?
References: <65eFa.634621$Si4.577158@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <bc673d$f0tpn$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EE79F73.E08C2554@alcyone.com> <mailman.1055369063.13758.python-list@python.org> <3ee88ede$0$645$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <bcbb0q$hf4ub$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3eea2377$0$1394$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <bcdf3e$2js$0@216.39.172.122>

On 13 Jun 2003 19:18:15 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:

>In article <bcbb0q$hf4ub$1 at ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>, Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de) wrote:
>>
>>> It's not rare in the DSP world.  TI's line of FP DSPs all had
>>> 32-bit bytes.  Where "byte" is used in the sense of the "C"
>>> standard as the smallest unite of addressable memory.
>> 
>> I thought the C standard used the word "char" for that, not
>> "byte".
>
>Both.  In the C standard "char" and byte "byte" are equivalent.
>Using "byte" is more confusing, and if I had written it I would
>have stuck with "char".  But they didn't ask me...  ;)
>
>> If DSP people really use the word "byte" that way, they're
>> utterly barking, IMO. It's just too confusing for words. (Or
>> should I say octet-groups?-)
>
>They generally only use it that way when they're dealing with
>the C standard, and I, for one, do prefer "char".
>
The C++ standard (or at least a 2 December 1996 draft I snagged) says
--
  1.6  The C++ memory model                               [intro.memory]

1 The fundamental storage unit in the C++ memory model is the  byte.   A
  byte  is at least large enough to contain any member of the basic exe-
  cution character set and is composed of a contiguous sequence of bits,
  the  number of which is implementation-defined.  The least significant
  bit is called the low-order bit; the most significant  bit  is  called
  the high-order bit.  The memory available to a C++ program consists of
  one or more sequences of contiguous bytes.  Every byte  has  a  unique
  address.
--
which seems to imply that char and byte COULD have different numbers of bits.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bcorfman at amsaa.army.mil  Thu Jun 19 08:29:12 2003
From: bcorfman at amsaa.army.mil (Brandon Corfman)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:29:12 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055983592.10666.python-list@python.org>
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3EEDEDBE.BCB56D6E@engcorp.com> <HGMnCw.5tM@arl.mil> <mailman.1055866100.14949.python-list@python.org> <HGot1G.Etn@arl.mil> <mailman.1055983592.10666.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HGqAn1.2sy@arl.mil>

Steven Taschuk wrote:
> 
> However, I suspect that the question that's actually frequently
> asked is something like:
> 
>     "I'm used to C/C++/Java, and I rely on the compiler using the
>     variable declarations to tell me when I've made a type error or
>     mistyped a name.  How can I avoid these kinds of bugs in Python?"
> 
OK, that's clearer. I can give that a shot.

> 
>>I don't see what there is to fear in this regard either. Lisp/Dylan have 
>>done optional typing and range checking, and it improves safety as well 
>>as performance -- without changing the character of the languages or how 
>>they're used. I don't see why Python would be any different.
> 
> Sounds fine to me.  Want to write the patch?  :)
> 
Ha, I think you're trying to trick me. :D Maybe I should start with a 
PEP. I suspect I'll have to catch up on all those types-sig messages first.
> 
>>[...] The multiple variable assignment and 
>>multiple return values in Python allows for programming without 
>>side-effects. [...]
> 
> 
> But assignment is the quintessential side-effecty operation, nyet?
> 
Yes, of course, but to quote Paul Graham,
"Having functional programming as an ideal doesn?t imply that programs 
should never have side effects.It just means that they should have no 
more than necessary." [1]

Localizing side effects to passed-in & return values only makes it much 
easier to track down bugs, IMO. If you have too many member 
variables/globals holding state for your functions, then it becomes a 
real problem to setup unit tests or to quickly evaluate success from the 
command prompt.

Best regards,
Brandon

[1] "On Lisp", Paul Graham, p. 31. http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisp.html




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Jun 17 14:18:38 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:18:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <20030617145233.23924.qmail@green.zadka.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306170824360.1797@ns0.tbye.com>,
 <qyzHa.100693$pR3.2190677@news1.tin.it>, <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>
 <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it>
 <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <mailman.1055784208.22718.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.1055813915.12726.python-list@python.org> <20030617090918.9697.qmail@green.zadka.com>
 <20030617145233.23924.qmail@green.zadka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306171057510.2147@ns0.tbye.com>

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Moshe Zadka wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Jun, Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
>
> > Can you clarify what you mean by "source code is always a liability"?
>
> This is why "YAGNI" is such a powerful principle -- because source code
> without functionality is sheer liability.

Yes, yes, I understand all that. It's just that nobody is disagreeing with
the idea that "less code for the same functionality is good". The
statement "source code is always a liability" is only true in the same
watered down sense that "employees are always a liability" - IOW, you have
to make the definition so broad that it's no longer useful to mention it
and no different than, say, cost minimalization ("don't buy more compiler
licences than we need", "if we can code just as well in smaller offices,
go for it", etc.).

Have fun,
-Dave




From dj3000 at iinet.net.au.nospam  Wed Jun  4 04:22:25 2003
From: dj3000 at iinet.net.au.nospam (DJ)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:22:25 +1000
Subject: Updating SQL table problems with python
Message-ID: <3eddac41$0$31519$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>

Hi there,

I get a Syntax error from this following SQL statement:

file_open = urllib.urlopen(url)
xmldoc = minidom.parse(file_open)
file_open.close()
blah = xmldoc.toxml()
title = minidom.parseStrin(blah).getElementsByTagNam('title')

connection = gadfly.gadfly("portal", "dbase")
cursor = connection.cursor()
for x in title:
        j = x.firstChild.data
        j = j.encode('ascii', 'replace')
        cursor.execute("update items set title = '%s' where title = 'Title'"
% j)
        connection.commit()

As you can tell, im parsing a xml RSS feed and updating items table. Im
trying to replace
default value of 'Title' with the title from the RSS feed.
The update statement is givng me the syntax error
I cant see whats wrong

Need some help
Thanks in advance
Adam





From rm at no-mail.com  Thu Jun 12 16:54:39 2003
From: rm at no-mail.com (Roy Marteen)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:54:39 +0900
Subject: Module like Perl's Date::Calc
Message-ID: <20030613055439.2adeb3b9.rm@no-mail.com>

Hi,

I am new to Python. I used to program in Perl, and I used a lot of
function from Date::Calc module in Perl. I am just wondering is there any
similar module in Python? 

Here is the the link:
http://search.cpan.org/author/STBEY/Date-Calc-5.3/Calc.pod



From ninja114 at spl.at  Fri Jun 20 23:05:40 2003
From: ninja114 at spl.at (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 03:05:40 GMT
Subject: how do you learn python APIs?
References: <mailman.1056161079.27203.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.21.03.04.48.765143@spl.at>

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:03:22 -0700, Keith Beattie wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm relatively new to python and would like to know how more seasoned python programmers learn new APIs.  My inclination (as a recent Java programmer) is to have a javadoc like interface, and pydoc is close, but the lack of types make it difficult so discern what a method does without other documentation.  Doing dir(foo) on objects directly in the interpreter which is helpful but, I guess I'd like to know what the pythonic way of doing things is, or ask how people go about learning a new module.
> 
> Thanks,
> ksb

Maybe I'm missing something here, but the standard doc covers the standard
library in great detail, and most add-on modules have pretty good doc as
well. 

Beyond that, I tend to just fire up an interactive session, import the
module and 'play' with it.




From garabik-news-2002-02 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Mon Jun 23 11:37:57 2003
From: garabik-news-2002-02 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (Radovan Garabik)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 15:37:57 GMT
Subject: decoding video-/teletext with python
References: <85vdfvctr1hem0oq3b275e6gm5ddl7a4kf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bd76sl$psa3t$1@ID-89407.news.dfncis.de>

Marcus Stojek <stojek at part-gmbh.de> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I want to read and decode the data that come along with the tv-signal
> (videotext or teletext). Are there any python packages or examples
> available ?
> 
> The only thing I found is alevt, but that's C and Linux. Couldn't be
> worse for me :-)
> 

I once had similar idea, and even did some programming.
However, it needed some C interface gutted out from alevt
I can give you my sources (it even runs somewhat! :-)) if you want

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jun 16 16:12:17 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 20:12:17 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3eece571$0$49110$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <oX5Ha.116651$3Sm.35400@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3BfHa.95965$pR3.2057696@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bcl8b1$6qv$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:54:23 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

><posted & mailed>
>
>martin z wrote:
>
>>> You *can* test the types of the arguments yourself, inside
>>> the function. But this is regarded bad practice amongst Python
>>> programmers, for the above mentioned reasons.
>> 
>> On this subject, is there a way to test not the specific type, or simply
>> the
>> protocol an object supports?  String, int, etc.  I want to make a function
>> do one thing with a numeric-type object and a different thing with a
>> string-type object.
>
>It depends, of course, on what you want "numeric-type" and "string-type"
>to mean.  For my purposes, I've found the following very simple "protocol
>testing" functions work just fine:
>
>def isStringLike(s):
>    try: s+''
Nit: succeeding with this test could be expensive if s is e.g., a 100MB file image
(I think this has come up before in a discussion of such testing, but I forgot if
it was me ;-)
>    except: return False
>    else: return True
>
>def isNumberLike(s):
>    try: s+0
>    except: return False
>    else: return True

I like the concept of testing for comptible behavior, but I would want to
feel sure that there could be no unexpected side effects from testing any
candidate args.

I know you understand all these issues, but all readers of this might not
without a mention ;-)

>
>I haven't actually used the second one very often; perhaps it might
>give problems with e.g. "number-vector" types that let you perform
>SOME number-like operations (such as "add a scalar to each item") but
>not others.  The first one I use regularly and still find preferable
>to e.g. "isinstance(s, basestring)" which doesn't classify as "string
>like" such obvious cases as instances of UserString.UserString.
>
I wonder if
    try: s and s[0]+'' or s+''
would serve as well, and protect against the big-s hit. Or is
there a sensible string-like thing that doesn't support logical
tests and indexing but does support adding '' ?

>Of course, this overall approach does depend on an underlying
>assumption that types are defined "sensibly" -- e.g. that if a type
>is string-like enough to let you concatenate its instances to a
>string, then it will also be string-like enough from other points
>of view.  I have not found that to be a problem in practice.
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Jun 13 17:00:15 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 14:00:15 -0700
Subject: insert thousands separators
References: <3EE9E548.9010701@isst.fhg.de> <yyyvfv9hpj9.fsf@adams.patriot.net>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0306131300.168e16b1@posting.google.com>

Nick Vargish <nav at adams.patriot.net> wrote in message news:<yyyvfv9hpj9.fsf at adams.patriot.net>...
> Marcus Bergmann <marcus.bergmann at isst.fhg.de> writes:
> 
> > how can I insert thousands separators into an integer or a string,
> > e.g. 1000000 to 1.000.000?
> 
> You may need to modify the following to match the "integer or string"
> part of your request. commafy() here accepts and integer but returns a
> string...

     commafy(1004) -> '1,7'
     commafy(1000007) -> '1,0,7'

This is interesting but possibly not quite what the OP was looking for.


> def commafy(val):
>     """Returns a string version of val with commas every thousandth
>     place."""
>     return val < 0 and '-' + commafy(abs(val)) \
>            or val < 1000 and str(val) \
>            or commafy(val / 1000) + ',' + commafy(val % 1000)

Try pinning ".zfill(3)" to its tail.



From mickel at csc.fi  Tue Jun 10 03:18:45 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:18:45 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Setting allowed size of text object on canvas in Tkinter
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0306101014260.14753-100000@sampo.csc.fi>

Hi everybody!

How do I force a text object to be of a required size on a canvas in
Tkinter?

I have a Tkinter.Canvas widget onto which I have drawn a rectangle with
create_rectangle(). Inside this rectangle I want to put a text object, but
also make sure that the text does not overflow the rectangle's borders
(rather, the overflow should be cut off from view). Currently I'm trying
to do this with create_text, but that only accepts coordinates for a point
and not for the bounding box. Any ideas?

Cheers,

/Mickel G.

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jun  8 19:31:29 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 01:31:29 +0200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org> <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055032157.24538.python-list@python.org> <l1el24hmex.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055088916.4391.python-list@python.org> <l1ptlofcz3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <m3u1b0uoxa.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Ed Avis <ed at membled.com> writes:

> (Would 'x, 3' be a statement anyway?)

It's an expression_list, which then turns into a expression_stmt (any
expression is a statement if it stands on a line on its own, most
notably doc strings and function calls.

> To do that I would need to understand a bit more about how a BNF
> grammar is interpreted; how the binding tightness of operators is
> decided, whether parsing at each level is greedy, and so on.

As a starting point, you should observe that the current Python parser
is a LL(1) parser. Text books will explain the properties of such a
parsing technique.

Regards,
Martin




From exarkun at intarweb.us  Mon Jun  9 02:45:21 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 02:45:21 -0400
Subject: Editing a Binary File.
In-Reply-To: <924a9f9c.0306082237.222a46cf@posting.google.com>
References: <924a9f9c.0306082237.222a46cf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030609064521.GA26703@meson.dyndns.org>

On Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 11:37:24PM -0700, Paradox wrote:
> I need to edit a few bytes in an existing binary file. Is this
> possible with the Python file object or if not what is another way
> that I can accomplish this?
> I am running Python 2.2 under Windows.
> 
> I have tried using open(fileName, 'a+b') and open(fileName, 'w+b').
> 
> With a+ I have not been able to write anywhere but to the end of the
> file and with w+ it destroys my file.
> 

  Try the mode 'r+b', I think you will find it to your liking.

  Jp

-- 
Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes and
weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and
weigh only 1.5 tons.    -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jun 24 16:49:08 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:49:08 -0500
Subject: python hash function
In-Reply-To: <5050a341.0306241157.65e08b84@posting.google.com>
References: <5050a341.0306241157.65e08b84@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16120.47428.215623.698048@montanaro.dyndns.org>


Damien,

I took your three functions and with a couple tweaks to them and to the
PyInline module (so it could handle the "register" keyword) I came up with
the attached test script.  Running it on my Powerbook yields these numbers
for three runs when hashing the words in /usr/share/dict/words (234937
words):

    % python hashtest.py
    hash1: 1.690 seconds, 6 collisions
    hash3: 1.750 seconds, 9 collisions
    hash6: 1.830 seconds, 18 collisions
    % python hashtest.py
    hash1: 1.710 seconds, 6 collisions
    hash3: 1.800 seconds, 9 collisions
    hash6: 1.840 seconds, 18 collisions
    % python hashtest.py
    hash1: 1.690 seconds, 6 collisions
    hash3: 1.750 seconds, 9 collisions
    hash6: 1.790 seconds, 18 collisions

All C code would have been compiled with Apple's version of gcc 3.1 with "-g
-O3" flags.

Skip

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From listbox at cybereal.org  Sun Jun 15 17:50:24 2003
From: listbox at cybereal.org (Zac Jensen)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:50:24 -0600
Subject: popen3 child_stdin
In-Reply-To: <bcinsu$hui$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <bcinsu$hui$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200306151550.25441.listbox@cybereal.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sunday 15 June 2003 03:32 pm, ddoc wrote:
> popen3(cmd[, mode[, bufsize]]) Executes cmd as a sub-process. Returns the
> file objects (child_stdin, child_stdout, child_stderr). Availability: Unix,
> Windows. New in version 2.0.
>
>
> I may be having a moment of brain fade, but I can't see how I get hold of
> child_stdin etc, having started up a DOS program with popen3
>
> Help?

c_stdin, c_stdout, c_stderr = popen3("C:\command.com")

c_stdout.write("dir\nexit\n")

print c_stdin.read()


...

not tested

...

or ... something... have fun, hth

- -Zac

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Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE+7OogV3L7YsSif1URAhCZAJ0V3O008PacCB5QDO9zAllq39NDYgCffInj
6ZKNYQmwcLd7QCzER72nxWs=
=r6U2
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From aeze616 at cse.unsw.edu.au  Mon Jun 16 07:25:36 2003
From: aeze616 at cse.unsw.edu.au (anson)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 04:25:36 -0700
Subject: using QCanvas
Message-ID: <cb7ba330.0306160325.407f4b9e@posting.google.com>

Dear python techs,


     I've embedded a QCanvasText into my QCanvas. but for some reason
the QCanvasText doesn't show up. I heard somehow we have to use the
QCanvasView. How do you use it?

zeallous



From howard at eegsoftware.com  Sat Jun 28 18:08:27 2003
From: howard at eegsoftware.com (Howard Lightstone)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:08:27 GMT
Subject: win32ui.CreatePrintDialog argument question
Message-ID: <Xns93A89A21A13E5howardeegsoftwarecom@66.75.162.198>

I am trying to use the CreatePrintDialog routine to initialize a device 
context for the (default) printer but ..... I can't figure out the 
arguments.

win32ui.CreatePrintDialog

The first argument is "idRes:  the ID of the dialog resource to load"

What IS this?   There doesn't seem to be any information about it in 
PythonWin documents and the MFC class underlaying it doesn't have this 
argument.  The routine wants an integer but *simple* integers like 0, 1, 
etc. don't do anything except give a "LoadResourceEx" error message.



From athenonrex at godisdead.com  Mon Jun 23 10:39:56 2003
From: athenonrex at godisdead.com (athe nonrex)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:39:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New to Python...feedback?
Message-ID: <20030623143956.814174481@sitemail.everyone.net>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20030623/abd8be69/attachment.ksh>

From hst at empolis.co.uk  Fri Jun 20 03:51:15 2003
From: hst at empolis.co.uk (Harvey Thomas)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:51:15 +0100
Subject: I don't understand this regex.groups() behaviour
Message-ID: <8FC4E7C302A6A64AAD5DB1FA0E825DEB53BDAD@hendrix.empolisuk.com>

Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I don't understand why the last two sentences of the following
> interactive session don't return more than two groups.
> 
> Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jun  5 2003, 14:02:17)
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
> In [1]: import re
> 
> In [2]: c = '"A";"AA";"AAA";"AAAA";"AAAAA"'
> 
> In [3]: re.match(r'("A+?";)("A+?"$)', c)
> 
> In [4]: re.match(r'("A+?";)+("A+?"$)', c).groups()
> Out[4]: ('"AAAA";', '"AAAAA"')
> 
> In [5]: re.match(r'("A+?";){4}("A+?"$)', c).groups()
> Out[5]: ('"AAAA";', '"AAAAA"')
> 
> Could somebody please explain why multiple groups aren't returned?
> 
The short answer is that the number of groups returned is always equal to the number of pairs of capturing parentheses in the RE. Since you have two pairs of capturing parentheses, you will get two groups returned - the first group is "overwritten" three times. AFAIK this behaviour is common to RE implementation in Python, Perl, Java, PHP... Jeffrey Friedl's book "Mastering Regular Expressions" (2nd Edition) is an excellent exposition on the subject.

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service.




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Jun 28 16:00:46 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:00:46 +0200
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056731821.18681.python-list@python.org> <aBb/+ks/KjnV089yn@the-wire.com> <DRd/+kKkXMnD092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <bdksd1$sfs$1@main.gmane.org>

David Mertz wrote:

> P.S. The moral I actually take from the thread is that it is possible to
> take a small subset of actual XML, and call that simple (because it is).
> But it is a massive mental effort to understand every weird corner case
> in the XML spec.

yup, that's why I've just set up a Wiki with the goal of creating a new,
better standard.  it's time to wrestle control over XML away from the
current owners, and create something that people can actually use and
that can rally the XML community around a common cause.

oops.  wrong forum.

sorry /F







From snails at softhome.net  Wed Jun 25 15:07:45 2003
From: snails at softhome.net (Amos Joshua)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 12:07:45 -0700
Subject: Staying Connected to a POP3/SMTP Server
Message-ID: <5a8e622e.0306251107.1d5e3202@posting.google.com>

Would any Bad Things happen if I stayed connected to a POP3 and an
SMTP server for say, an hour, while checking for new emails say, every
ten seconds, and sending some at small intervals like that too?



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Jun 15 18:54:57 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:54:57 -0400
Subject: Use __del__ methods to improve gc?
In-Reply-To: <vejus8prkdkc36@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEFJEKAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Edward K. Ream]
> BTW, I'm chuckling a little less now.  Executing:
>
> print len(gc.garbage), len(gc.get_objects())
>
> periodically shows that my app is steadily eating memory.
> len(gc.garbage) remains zero while len(gc.get_objects()) steadily
> increases.  And I thought I was recycling all bindings :-(

Didn't you say before that, because of unlimited undo, you expected
unbounded growth?

> You wouldn't know of something similar to timeit for storage
> allocation, would you?

Well, gc.get_objects() is a list of all container objects in existence.
Start by looking at it, to see whether unexpected stuff is in it.  If
something is in gc.objects() after doing gc.collect(), it's because it's
still reachable.





From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Mon Jun  9 13:00:44 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 10:00:44 -0700
Subject: cut off \n
References: <3EE4ACCD.70000@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <bc2ee5$e99fc$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>

Tom wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have to read data from a file to a list. Unfortunately most of
> the data that I read into my little list ends with a linefeed \n.
> Right now I get rid of this by just cutting off the last
> character. (a = l[:-1]).
> My problem is that sometimes the last line of the file has a \n
> and sometimes not. With the method above I sometimes cut off parts
> of my string. So it would be much nicer if I can find out if the
> data does have a \n and then cut it off.
> 

Are you using Python 2.2.3 or later?

If so, take a look at the rstrip function in the string module.
See:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-string.html

Then try 

    string.rstrip(line, '\n')

  - Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From edreamleo at charter.net  Sat Jun 14 17:12:02 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 16:12:02 -0500
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com> <velvur9c1nq30e@corp.supernews.com> <87el1whkhc.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <ven3t69lehqs2b@corp.supernews.com>

> I don't understand.  Could you elaborate?  For example, could you
> clarify whether you mean 'Leo source' or 'running Leo process' when
> you say 'Leo'?  Do you mean you work like one does with doctest: copy
> stuff from an interactive shell, and have them become permanent tests?

My old way was pretty stupid: I would develop Leo using Leo to edit Leo's
sources, LeoPy.leo.  Then I would _exit_ the copy of Leo that was editing
LeoPy.leo.  So if there were any problems that prevented Leo from running I
would have to correct those problems either using a backup copy of Leo or
using Idle.  Not only that, but LeoPy.leo is a big file, and it would take
15-20 seconds to reload it.

With the new way I never expose the copy of Leo that is running to the most
recent changes.  I test those changes in a _separate_ Leo outline running
the (new, changed) Leo code.  If the new copy of Leo crashes or has syntax
errors I still have the copy of Leo running that is editing LeoPy.leo.  And
I hardly ever _load_ LeoPy.leo; I just keep saving it.

This isn't anything new, and I feel really stupid for not having seen it
years ago.  And it _has_ tripled my productivity over "just" using Python
and Leo.

Maybe a "diagram" would help:

1. Leo(copy1) loads LeoPy.leo (I do this just once for each programming
session)
2. Make changes to LeoPy.leo and save LeoPy.leo.
3. Leo(copy2) loads test.leo (a much smaller file)
syntax error found.
4. Make changes to LeoPy.leo and save LeoPy.leo
5. Leo(copy2) loads test.leo
no syntax error, but changes needed.
6. Make changes to LeoPy.leo and save LeoPy.leo
etc.

I use a batch file called "t" to run test.leo.  I run this batch file in a
console window that stays open.  So in practice, the "diagram" above
becomes:

1. Leo(copy1) loads LeoPy.leo
2. Make changes to LeoPy.leo and save LeoPy.leo.
3. Type t in the console window to open test.leo in copy 2 of Leo
syntax error found.
4. Make changes to LeoPy.leo and save LeoPy.leo
5. Type t in the console window to open test.leo in copy 2 of Leo
no syntax error, but changes needed.
6. Make changes to LeoPy.leo and save LeoPy.leo
etc.

In other words, the "edit,compile,test" cycle becomes:
- edit and save LeoPy.leo.
- type t in console window.

I do this so often that using a short script name like "t" is actually
important.

HTH

Edward

P.S.  The stuff about "instant unittests" just happened naturally.  I would
run Python code in test.leo to test things out, and test.leo is a natural
way of organizing lots of cases.  So test.leo becomes a way of saving stuff
that should be made into official unit tests later.  What makes this work is
that Leo has a command that executes all the text of a selected node as a
Python script.

P.P.S.  Sure, I could fire up the second copy of Leo by double-clicking
test.leo.  But then when I exited test.leo I would have a useless console
window open that is running Python in -i mode, and I would have to close the
console window.  It's actually considerably easier to leave the console
window open and type t.

BTW, if such small matters make a difference I must be running a _huge_
number of tests in a short time, and that is exactly what happens.

P.P.P.S.  This workflow is probably why RMS never liked to exit Emacs.

EKR
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk  Wed Jun 11 08:33:32 2003
From: andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk (Andrew Walkingshaw)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 12:33:32 GMT
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <mailman.1055217438.10041.python-list@python.org> <dd5454fb.0306101346.201331fc@posting.google.com> <3EE65444.907E6D87@alcyone.com> <mailman.1055283799.2307.python-list@python.org> <3EE6646E.47555429@alcyone.com> <mailman.1055286920.18421.python-list@python.org> <3EE67C20.941FCA51@alcyone.com> <mailman.1055319116.28014.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbee8cs.rev.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net>

In article <mailman.1055319116.28014.python-list at python.org>, Ian
Bicking wrote:

>> A fair point.  So if you were able to choose any keyword for this task
>> that you wished, which would you choose?
> 
> I think "as" is a perfectly good keyword, and no other suggestion I've
> seen is better.  It reads well and it represents the underlying
> implementation fairly well.  And "as" is already (kind of) a keyword, so
> all the better.  It was an early suggestion, and a good one -- I don't
> know why people are working it over so much.

Because we haven't anything better to do? :)

Another option which comes to mind, assuming that these function
decorators work the way I think they do, is "applying":

def f(x,y,z) applying (decorator1, decorator2):
   ...

which would be equivalent to decorator2(decorator1(f(x,y,z))).

The main problem is that it's eight characters, but (to me at least)
it's entirely obvious what it means in this context - and it's not
already in use as a keyword.

- Andrew

-- 
Andrew Walkingshaw | andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk



From exarkun at intarweb.us  Wed Jun 25 13:17:08 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:17:08 -0400
Subject: SSL in Python
In-Reply-To: <3ef9cc58$0$837$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
References: <3ef9cc58$0$837$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <20030625171708.GA26272@meson.dyndns.org>

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 11:23:57AM -0500, Chris Rennert wrote:
> I noticed in the documentation that they have ssl() in Python, but it says
> only if configured.  I just can't find info on how to configure SSL in
> Python. My goal is to write a simple p-2-p chat, but have all info
> encrypted between clients. Any help you could give me would be greatly
> appreciated!

  Python's built-in SSL support only works for clients, not servers. 
Several third party modules exist to provide server support, PyOpenSSL my
personal favorite.  The gory details of this (and other networking issues)
are dealt with by Twisted: http://www.twistedmatrix.com/.

  Jp

-- 
Seduced, shaggy Samson snored.
She scissored short.  Sorely shorn,
Soon shackled slave, Samson sighed,
Silently scheming,
Sightlessly seeking
Some savage, spectacular suicide.
                -- Stanislaw Lem, "Cyberiad"




From jeremy at alum.mit.edu  Wed Jun 18 17:06:58 2003
From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 17:06:58 -0400
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
In-Reply-To: <OiVHa.105930$pR3.2320405@news1.tin.it>
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com> <3EEFEF90.4000703@nospam.com>
	 <xrSHa.976224$OV.1079453@rwcrnsc54> <OiVHa.105930$pR3.2320405@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <1055970418.16210.52.camel@slothrop.zope.com>

On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 04:22, Alex Martelli wrote:
> > also, i don't think it's a good idea to use dict as a variable name since
> > dict is a python type.
> 
> Very good advice!  If you use dict as a local name, you shadow the
> buit-in name 'dict' and therefore cannot any more call it e.g. in
> order to generate a new dictionary, as above.

Agreed.  When things go wrong, it can be very difficult to understand. 
Say you use file as a local variable, but through later editing delete
the assignment.  Later, you call file.read(25) or dict.update(obj).  You
get:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: descriptor 'read' requires a 'file' object but received a
'int'

It's not obvious that you've called the unbound method on the builtin
type.

Jeremy






From mr.kuta at libero.it  Tue Jun  3 17:42:57 2003
From: mr.kuta at libero.it (King Kuta)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:42:57 -0700
Subject: Whre is my object ??
Message-ID: <bbj4p4$f8n$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Ok, a little riddle for he Python community.

Follow this code (interactive):

>>> class marco:
...     pass
...
>>> objlist[0]=marco
>>> del marco
>>> objlist[0]
<class __builtin__.marco at 0x023824D8>
>>> objlist[0].me =23
>>> objlist[0].me
23
>>> marco
  File
"C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON~1.2\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\tools\boa\ExternalLib\Pyt
honInterpreter.py", line 69, in push
    exec code in self.locals
  File "<console>", line 1, in ?
'''exceptions.NameError : name 'marco' is not defined'''
>>>

Evidently "marco" object does not exist in the utermost scope (__builtin__
?)
but it exit "inside" the list object and can be not only referenced but
assignd too.
So where is my object? (apart from the obvious mem location at 0x023824D8)
Does it have a scope in which it exist ?
Do list "create" a scope?
Is it another riddle on identifiers?

Thanks,
marco





From paul at boddie.net  Fri Jun  6 10:26:37 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 07:26:37 -0700
Subject: Characters in Python
References: <aaf09156.0306050423.21b45f6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0306060626.24e6646d@posting.google.com>

jansun at home.se (Jan Sundstr?m) wrote in message news:<aaf09156.0306050423.21b45f6 at posting.google.com>...
> 
>    str = '???'
>    print str
> 
> Python, or perhaps IDLE rather, doesn't seem toaccept characters with 
> codes over 127. 

This reference might be interesting:

  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/patches/2002-February/007368.html

However, I see the same problem with IDLE from the ActiveState Python
2.2 distribution. Using IDLEfork instead seems to be a good solution:

  http://idlefork.sourceforge.net

It turns out that you can do exactly what you wanted in IDLEfork.

> Is there a simple way to turn off this obscession with 7-bit ASCII?

The above reference would suggest that it isn't a point of obsession
but an oversight carried over from an earlier time. Anyway, as a point
of reference it should be noted that ASCII is a 7 bit standard, if not
officially (but I think it actually is) then for most intents and
purposes you should consider it to be so. I imagine that you actually
mean, "Can I work with strings in my own encoding?" With IDLEfork, the
answer is yes.

Personally, I think that most people would be better off working with
Unicode. In IDLEfork you can actually print Unicode objects directly.
However, in console environments, Python gets rather upset at the mere
suggestion - see below for a workable approach.

> And how can one easily change what Python considers to be
> default character encoding? 
> I couldn't find anything about that in the tutorial.

To get your default encoding, at least, try this:

  import locale
  locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "")

Apparently, you should only ever do this once in your program, and you
shouldn't do it in a library. Then try this:

  encoding = locale.getlocale()[1]

Sadly, in Windows environments, this may return something like "1252"
which isn't enough for my next suggestion: to convert strings to
Unicode, do this:

  u = unicode(s, encoding) # don't use 'str' for your variable since
                           # it's a built-in

On Windows, try this kind of thing instead:

  u = unicode(s, "cp1252")

To write Unicode out to your console, try this:

  print u.encode(encoding)

This works on IDLEfork, too, so for success in both DOS boxes and
IDLEfork I'd suggest explicit encoding of Unicode objects when
printing stuff out.

Paul



From bernie at 3captus.com  Tue Jun  3 14:27:07 2003
From: bernie at 3captus.com (Bernard Yue)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 18:27:07 GMT
Subject: Variable Modifications in a class
References: <mailman.1054658001.11458.python-list@python.org> <3EDCDB05.8E12F97@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054662907.14500.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EDCE88C.2030308@3captus.com>

Mehta, Anish wrote:

>  Thanks for the explaination.  That point is clear and also one thing 
> more is that when we have the same piece of code in c , and when we do 
> 'c = b' then copy constructor is invoked. So in c with the 
> same(likely) piece of code we have differnt output from python. I 
> would like to know is there any way with which i can write the code in 
> python for the C code like below.
> I am writing a program in python which is already written in C and in 
> that lot of instances are modifying the variables of the some 
> structure like this:
>
>
> typedef struct ab
> {
>       int a;
>       int b;
> }AB;
>
> main()
> {
>  AB b;
>  AB c;
>
>  b.a = 5;
>  b.b = 10;
>
>  c = b;
>
>  c.a = 30;
>  c.b = 40;
>
>  printf("AB values %d %d\n", b.a, b.b);
>  printf("New values %d %d\n", c.a, c.b);
> }
>
> The output is:
>
> AB values 5 10
> New values 30 40

use module copy.  Code as follows:

import copy

class AB:
  def __init__(self):
      self.a = None
      self.b = None

def func(ab):
  b = ab()
  # c = ab()

  b.a = 5
  b.b = 10

  c = copy.deepcopy(b)

  c.a = 30
  c.b = 40

  print b.a, b.b
  print c.a, c.b
  t = func(AB)


>
>> So let's run through your function line by line
>>
>> def func(ab):
>>    b = ab()
>>
>> This creates a new AB object, the first one.
>> It also creates the name "b", and binds it to the new AB object.
>>
>>    c = ab()
>>
>> This also creates a new (and different) AB object, the second one.
>> It also creates the name "c", and binds it to the second AB object.
>>
>>    b.a = 5
>>
>> Set the "a" member of the AB object *referred to* to by "b" to 5
>>
>>    b.b = 10
>>
>> Set the "b" member of the AB object *referred to* to by "b" to 10
>>
>>    c = b
>>
>> Make the name "c" refer to whatever "b" refers to
>> (in this case, the *first* AB object).
>> Note also that you now have no way of getting at the second AB 
>> object, since you have no reference to it. It has fallen into the
>> garbage heap, and will be recycled eventually.
>>
>>   c.a = 30
>>
>> Set the "a" member of the AB object referred to by c (i.e. the first AB
>> object) to 30
>>
>>   c.b = 40
>>
>> Set the "b" member of the AB object referred to by c (i.e. the first AB
>> object) to 40
>>
>> I think you will understand the behaviour better now.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>>  
>>
>
>
>





From larry_Goodman at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 26 13:51:43 2003
From: larry_Goodman at yahoo.com (Chuck Spears)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:51:43 GMT
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
References: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com> <bde5fj$ro8to$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3efb3248.316098305@news.pa.comcast.giganews.com>

I have a question with regards to the sprintf style of replacing
strings.  I have a table in my HTML with a 50% width specifier.  How
can i get the formatter to ignore it.  For example in the example
below how can i code the 50% to be ignored?

keep the "%s 50% %s" % ("a","b")



From MatthewS at HeyAnita.com  Mon Jun 16 22:03:43 2003
From: MatthewS at HeyAnita.com (Matt Shomphe)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 19:03:43 -0700
Subject: Possible install bug in Python 2.3b1? (Python 2.2 still in the registry)
References: <mailman.1055791473.8374.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5ab0af73.0306161803.609b1682@posting.google.com>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055791473.8374.python-list at python.org>...

Sorry I was incomplete in my description.  Here are some additional
details.

> Why is this surprising?  For example, installing 2.3b1 does not uninstall
> 2.2.  Did you uninstall 2.2?

Yes, I uninstalled Python version 2.2.2 (the only instance on my
machine).  I found this behavior surprising because going from 2.2 to
2.2.2 caused no such behavior -- probably since it's located in the
same directory (Python22\).  I guess I shouldn't have found this
surprising given that 2.3b1 installs into the folder Python23\.

[snip]
> Whether one or more of those should have gotten overwritten depends on
> things you haven't told us, such as whether you clicked on the Advanced
> options button when installing, and, if so, whether you did an Admin or
> Non-Admin install, and whether you chose to associate file extensions or
> not.

(1) I did not click on the Advanced Options button when installing,
(2) I was logged in with admin priviliges on my machine, and
(3) I did not choose to associate file extensions.

> 
> > This does not seem to affect the behavior of the latest install.  (I
> > noticed the error only when I tried to install eGenix.com's mx
> > extensions.  It requires Python 2.2 and I noticed a garbage entry
> > when it was about to install.)
> 
> Sorry, don't know what that means.

Sorry, I should have been clearer.  When trying to install the mx
extensions from the windows executable
(http://www.egenix.com/files/python/eGenix-mx-Extensions.html#Download-mxBASE,
and scroll to the "Windows" section), a distutils GUI popped up.  The
installer was (I assume)looking for Python v2.2 in the registry and
found some errant entries. When the installer window popped up
indicating where the path to python was and where the files would be
installed, there was, instead of "C:\Python22\....", some non-ASCII
characters in its place.  This was not the problem, just an indication
that there may be a problem.  (mx doesn't have a version for 2.3 yet,
and I can wait).

The larger problem seems to be that the Python23\ path is not in my
Windows %PATH%.  As I indicated previously, there is no problem
*running* Python.  This just seems to indicate that the uninstall of
the old version & install of the new version may not be clean.

I hope this clears things up.

Please let me know if you need additional information.

m@



From paddy3118 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT  Mon Jun  9 05:46:37 2003
From: paddy3118 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT (Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 10:46:37 +0100
Subject: Hardware take on software testing.
References: <2ae25c6b.0306060450.78e988f9@posting.google.com> <bc0m19$ags$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3EE3FA53.7FC50F50@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3EE4577D.2020409@blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT>


Peter Hansen wrote:
> Terence Way wrote:
> 
>>Cleanroom, and much of the software development methodologies, insist
>>that bugs get more expensive as time goes on, so it's cost-effective
>>to spend time up-front to remove all bugs.  XP refutes that, and says
>>bugs cost the same no matter what: it's only software, just change it
>>when you find a bug.
> 
> 
> I'm unsure that's the way XP looks at it.  XP does three things, that
> I can see, in relation to this.  
> 
> One is it avoids the very expensive "big design up-front", along with 
> the masses of unused documentation, the length design sessions, and 
> so forth, and therefore reduces the cost of coding, where the bugs 
> are actually inserted, to a more reasonable level (and, incidentally, 
> reduces the cost of bugs at the same time).  
> 
> The second is that it puts a project into maintenance mode 
> from the first week, and therefore flattens the supposedly
> rising curve of bug-cost as seen in traditional projects to the
> level seen during maintenance.  (Hmm... never heard it described
> that way... maybe that's not quite true, but it seems valid at
> the moment.)
> 
> The third, and more important, is that it tries hard to avoid 
> inserting bugs in the first place, with the extensive unit and
> acceptance tests, and test-driven development.  If you don't
> put most of the bugs in in the first place, you don't really 
> get to worrying about the cost of the few remaining ones (and,
> as you point out, you just change it.)
> -Peter

I guess one of the things I question about XP then is this notion that 
you only add good code to your program because of the quality of your 
tests; and that prudent re-factoring also gets rid of unnecessary code.
If you are doing the above manually then I think that you could gain a 
lot by using coverage tools to help assess the quality of your tests not 
necessarily w.r.t. a spec, but in how well those tests cover your 
program. Coverage tools can be applied automatically for simple but 
useful results, or can give more detailed results with manual 
intervention. If someone is doing XP for a commercial project, why not 
invest in coverage tools? A coverage report could be part of every peer 
review, or generated as a matter of course during development if 
runtimes are not too long.

Random constrained generation wouldn't have to be seen as outside XP or 
TDD. If the language used for writing tests had good support for random 
generation, and software engineers were trained in the technique, it 
would just become another type of arrow in their quiver on their hunt 
for bugs on their quest for quality software. (Whoops, getting a little 
flowery towards the end there :-)

- Paddy.




From ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca  Wed Jun  4 12:56:15 2003
From: ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca (Aurélien Géron)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:56:15 +0200
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
Message-ID: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Hi,

I'm new here, so maybe this is a debate that has been going on already.  If
that's the case, please ignore this post...

** Why isn't Python shipped with wxPython instead of Tk ? **

When I started using Python, the first thing I wanted to do was to write a
little GUI program.

Of course, I started with Tk because it was shipped with Python, but I was
really disappointed:
- you have to learn yet another language to fully understand Tk
- the documentation is half Tk and half python which makes it confusing
- the look&feel is ok, but not great
- it's a bit slow too

So I looked for a better way and behold: I found wxPython.  In comparison,
it truly ROCKS !
- look&feel is fantastic
- documentation is great : especially thanks to the excellent demo program
which shows code vs result
- the architecture is much simpler : it's just python calling some binary

I'm sure beginners would come to love Python even faster if they could truly
create their first GUI in minutes.  I'm voting for wxPython to replace Tk in
the future Python distribution.

Any comments on this ? Anyone else want to vote ?

:-)
Aur?lien





From dave at nullcube.com  Thu Jun  5 01:30:13 2003
From: dave at nullcube.com (Dave Harrison)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:30:13 +1000
Subject: info about algorithmic complexity attacks
Message-ID: <20030605053013.GA2721@mail.usyd.edu.au>

pretty off topic, but python gurus are wise people in general ;-)

Im writing a paper for a course I am doing, on Algorithmic Complexity
Attacks on Hash Tables (sort of a summary and simpler version of
the one recently released by cs.rice.edu)

Does anyone know of complementary articles ? or relevant related
articles that might be helpful ? (preferably available online).

Cheers
Dave




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Mon Jun 23 00:59:16 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:59:16 +1000
Subject: License Question
In-Reply-To: <3EF68130.53439A53@easystreet.com>
References: <3EF54BDF.46423D0A@easystreet.com> <slrnbfassb.r9.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <8765mxoq8k.fsf@pobox.com> <slrnbfcsji.gfb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3EF68130.53439A53@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <20030623045916.GA4643@frobozz>

On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 09:25:20PM -0700, achrist at easystreet.com wrote:
[...]
> For example: I've got Windows NT on my machine, and I know that the
> FTP program that comes with WinNT is BSD or something like it from
> UC.  I see that the executable has the UC copyright notice in it, OK,
> but I don't see anywhere where Microsoft has given me the notice 
> about what I'm supposed to do when redistributing it in source or
> binary form.

You're not supposed to redistribute ftp.exe.  Or kern.sys.  Or any other
part of Windows NT; read your EULA.

>               If they just distribute a binary, do they have
> to include the notice about source redistributions?  Wouldn't that
> confuse the users?

The BSD license doesn't require source to be distributed with binaries.

-Andrew.





From t.evans at paradise.net.nz  Tue Jun 10 16:53:33 2003
From: t.evans at paradise.net.nz (Tim Evans)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:53:33 GMT
Subject: File reading using delimiters
References: <153fa67.0306090752.218d23b1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87ptll3b8y.fsf@cassandra.evansnet>

kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan) writes:

> All the examples of reading files in Python seem to concern reading a
> line at a time. But this is not much good to me as I want to be able
> to read up to arbitrary delimiters without worrying about how many
> lines I'm spanning. With my rudimentary Python knowledge I'm having to
> read in multiple lines, concatenate them, search for the delimiter,
> split the result if necessary, and carry forward whatever was after
> the delimiter to the next operation. Is there a better way of reading
> until a certain character is encountered, and no more?

The following code avoids both reading the whole file in one go, or
reading one character at a time:



from __future__ import generators

def readdelim(f, delim, blocksize=1024):
    end = ''
    while 1:
        block = f.read(blocksize)
        if not block:
            break
        parts = block.split(delim)
        if len(parts) == 1:
            end += parts[0]
        else:
            yield end + parts[0]
            for p in parts[1:-1]:
                yield p
            end = parts[-1]
    yield end



if __name__ == '__main__':
    import cStringIO as StringIO

    f = StringIO.StringIO('foo:bar:blarg:wibble:spam:eggs:parrot')
    for line in readdelim(f, ':', 10):
        print `line`



-- 
Tim Evans



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sun Jun  8 08:19:14 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 08 Jun 2003 13:19:14 +0100
Subject: zip broken?
References: <mailman.1055020874.30206.python-list@python.org> <3EE26F41.7761395B@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <yfswufwkbi5.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> Marek "Baczek" Baczy?ski wrote:
> 
> > I found a behaviour of zip() which I don't like -- it hangs on
> > infinite generators. Consider this code:
> 
> zip only works on finite sequences -- if you think about it, it has to;

Not true, only one of the sequences has to be finite.

>>> def yes():
...     while 1: yield 'yes'
...
>>> zip(yes(), range(3))
[('yes', 0), ('yes', 1), ('yes', 2)]


'as



From duduca007 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 18 16:29:22 2003
From: duduca007 at yahoo.com (Carlos Moreira)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:29:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RPM bind and TGZ bind
Message-ID: <20030618202922.91842.qmail@web11408.mail.yahoo.com>

Two things:

- I need a Python bind to rpm format (exist?)
- I need a Python bind to tgz (I know that this exist,
but I don't remember the link)

       Thanks, []'s

Cadu

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Jun 18 16:09:48 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:09:48 GMT
Subject: use member functions to access data in Python classes?
References: <3064b51d.0306180815.75869d6f@posting.google.com> <3EF09733.E66F9995@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <gG3Ia.109409$pR3.2391482@news1.tin.it>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> In C++, it is generally recommended to declare the data within a class
>> private and to access the data using member functions. Do experienced
>> Python programmers usually use member functions to access data within
>> classes, or do they access the data directly?
> 
> I follow the conventional approach used even by the Python libraries,
> which have proven to be quite effective :-), by just accessing most
> data directly.
> 
> If the type of access involved is more complicated that getting or
> setting, I naturally provide a method to perform the operation
> instead.
> 
> Note that the latest versions of Python have "properties" which will
> allow you to combine the best (?) of both worlds by writing code as
> though it had direct access but which actually calls methods under
> the table.

Note further that you could obtain the same effect with custom
__getattr__ and __setattr__ methods even in stone-age Python --
the introduction of properties is quite welcome because it makes
this style handier and faster, but it's not the _enabler_ of it.

By 'this style' I mean: access attributes as attributes.  If in
the future the attribute needs to go away as such and rather
get computed at need, and/or setting the attribute needs to cause
some other changes to keep some new class-invariant, then turn
the attribute into a property -- client-code stays unchanged,
never having to deal with the extra syntax boilerplate required
by explicitly calling getter/setter methods, so, no problem!


Alex




From icarroll at pobox.com  Wed Jun 18 15:49:39 2003
From: icarroll at pobox.com (W Isaac Carroll)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:49:39 -0700
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <c9%Ha.200753$g92.4077297@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3EF0C253.50003@pobox.com>

Alex Martelli wrote:
>David Abrahams wrote:
>>Alex Martelli wrote:
>>>But this has little to do with the need of 'type declarations'.  I
>>>suspect that a statically typed language would also be better off
>>>without them, relying on type inferencing instead, a la Haskell (and
>>>Haskell's typeclasses to keep the inferencing as wide as feasible),
>>>for example.  But I have no research to back this up;-).
>>
>>I don't have any first-hand experience, but the experience of friends
>>of mine who have used Haskell is that it can be exceedingly difficult
>>to locate the source of a type error when it does occur, since the
>>inference engine may propagate the "wrong" type back much further than
>>the source of the error.
> 
> Surely the compiler should easily be able to annotate the sources with
> the information it has inferred, including, in particular, type information.
> Thus it cannot possibly be any harder to identify the error point than
> if the same type declarations had been laboriously, redundantly written
> out by hand -- except, at worst, for a slight omission in the tool of a
> feature which would be easily provided.

My understanding is that the error reporting problem arises from the 
type inferencer assuming that everything it has seen so far is correct, 
and the first inconsistency it finds is the error it should report. For 
example, if Python had inferred static types then compiling

     def f(x):
         if x == 0:
             return False   # error actually here
         elif x == 1:
             return "one"   # error reported here
         elif x == 2:
             return "two"
         elif x == 3:
             return "three"

would report that "one" was not a boolean even though it is more likely 
that False was the actual error. This paper 
(http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/heeren02improving.html) shows how the error 
messages can be improved by using a (slower and more complex) constraint 
graph rather than the traditional (bad error message generating) 
unification method.

TTFN





From eat at joes.com  Sun Jun 29 00:27:53 2003
From: eat at joes.com (Jason Kratz)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 04:27:53 GMT
Subject: xmlrpc server on red hat 9 question
Message-ID: <dVtLa.5285$BM.2339537@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

After figuring out the other day (thanks to everyone here who helped) 
how to get the dir lists I want on my unix machine I want to turn the 
same thing into an XML-RPC service.  Using Simple XMLRPCServer.py I 
created my own version by adding my getdirs function and then I call the 
code to open the server:

import os
import os.path
import SimpleXMLRPCServer
import xmlrpclib
import SocketServer
import BaseHTTPServer
import sys


class SimpleXMLRPCRequestHandler(BaseHTTPServer.BaseHTTPRequestHandler):
     def do_POST(self):
         """Handles the HTTP POST request.

         Attempts to interpret all HTTP POST requests as XML-RPC calls,
         which are forwarded to the _dispatch method for handling.
         """

         try:
             # get arguments
             data = self.rfile.read(int(self.headers["content-length"]))
             params, method = xmlrpclib.loads(data)

             # generate response
             try:
                 response = self._dispatch(method, params)
                 # wrap response in a singleton tuple
                 response = (response,)
             except:
                 # report exception back to server
                 response = xmlrpclib.dumps(
                     xmlrpclib.Fault(1, "%s:%s" % (sys.exc_type, 
sys.exc_value))
                     )
             else:
                 response = xmlrpclib.dumps(response, methodresponse=1)
         except:
             # internal error, report as HTTP server error
             self.send_response(500)
             self.end_headers()
         else:
             # got a valid XML RPC response
             self.send_response(200)
             self.send_header("Content-type", "text/xml")
             self.send_header("Content-length", str(len(response)))
             self.end_headers()
             self.wfile.write(response)

             # shut down the connection
             self.wfile.flush()
             self.connection.shutdown(1)

     def _dispatch(self, method, params):
         func = None
         try:
             # check to see if a matching function has been registered
             func = self.server.funcs[method]
         except KeyError:
             if self.server.instance is not None:
                 # check for a _dispatch method
                 if hasattr(self.server.instance, '_dispatch'):
                     return self.server.instance._dispatch(method, params)
                 else:
                     # call instance method directly
                     try:
                         func = _resolve_dotted_attribute(
                             self.server.instance,
                             method
                             )
                     except AttributeError:
                         pass

         if func is not None:
             return apply(func, params)
         else:
             raise Exception('method "%s" is not supported' % method)

     def log_request(self, code='-', size='-'):
         """Selectively log an accepted request."""

         if self.server.logRequests:
             BaseHTTPServer.BaseHTTPRequestHandler.log_request(self, 
code, size)


def _resolve_dotted_attribute(obj, attr):
     """Resolves a dotted attribute name to an object.  Raises
     an AttributeError if any attribute in the chain starts with a '_'.
     """
     for i in attr.split('.'):
         if i.startswith('_'):
             raise AttributeError(
                 'attempt to access private attribute "%s"' % i
                 )
         else:
             obj = getattr(obj,i)
     return obj


class SimpleXMLRPCServer(SocketServer.TCPServer):

     def __init__(self, addr, requestHandler=SimpleXMLRPCRequestHandler,
                  logRequests=1):
         self.funcs = {}
         self.logRequests = logRequests
         self.instance = None
         SocketServer.TCPServer.__init__(self, addr, requestHandler)

     def register_instance(self, instance):

         self.instance = instance

     def register_function(self, function, name = None):

         if name is None:
             name = function.__name__
         self.funcs[name] = function


def getdirs(path):
     dirs=[]

     for entry in os.listdir(path):
         entry=os.path.join(path,entry)
         if os.path.isdir(entry):
             dirs.append(entry)
     return dirs


server = SimpleXMLRPCServer(("localhost", 8080))
server.register_function(getdirs)
server.serve_forever()

Now...this seems to run just fine on my red hat 9 machine.  Problem is I 
cant connect to it from another machine using the following code:

import xmlrpclib

client = xmlrpclib.Server("http://luna:8080")
print client.getdirs('/');

I get a connection refused error.  Interestingly enough this works just 
dandy if run on the same box as the server piece.   Anyone have any 
ideas what i need to do to get this to work?  I run the java servlet 
runner Resin on the box and that always seems to work just fine on the 
same port.

thanks,

Jason




From imbaczek at poczta.onet.pl  Sun Jun 22 18:05:36 2003
From: imbaczek at poczta.onet.pl (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Marek_=22Baczek=22_Baczy=F1ski?=)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 00:05:36 +0200
Subject: dynamic creating of class
References: <ulj8fvcs6483dh7khpl6jm6fsu26snnjv1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <948ip0xhyyor.dlg@baczek.net.invalid>

On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 14:29:02 +0200, Jaros?aw Zabie??o wrote:

> Is there a possibility for Python to dynamic binding of class?  I can
> do it in PHP but I do not know how to make the same in Python. 

PHP is not Python. Python can act as PHP in many places, but it is
considered unpythonic (i.e. ugly :))

> #Python:
> class A:
> 	x = 'class A'
> class B:
> 	x = 'class B'
> kind = 'B'
> run = kind() # IS DOES NOT WORK :(

You're calling a string. What you really want is
# the pythonic way
kind = B # bind kind to object under the name B
run = kind()
or
# the ugly way, sometimes the only though
kind = 'B'
run = eval(kind)()

> print run.x

Voila.

Pozdrawiam, Baczek



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Jun 26 13:43:45 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:43:45 +0200
Subject: Something strange with python 2.2.1 under RedHat 8.0
References: <mailman.1056644537.24368.python-list@python.org> <3EFB2D17.AEFF206F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bdfbc2$69v$1@main.gmane.org>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> > >>> for k in os.environ:
> > ...  print k
> > ...
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/UserDict.py", line 14, in __getitem__
> >     def __getitem__(self, key): return self.data[key]
> > KeyError: 0
>
> Judging by the error message, os.environ is *not* a dict, but
> a UserDict.   If it were to be subclassed from IterableUserDict
> instead, it would work okay I guess.
>
> Checking Python 2.2.2, I find it *is* now subclassed from
> IterableUserDict, so you're reporting a bug that is fixed
> in a later release.  Please upgrade.

or use os.environ.keys(), like in the old days...

</F>







From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jun  4 11:14:52 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:14:52 +0200
Subject: [Pypgsql-users] Re: Does anyone use SuSE 8.2
In-Reply-To: <ABnDa.723$OV3.69695653@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
References: <mailman.1054733349.25368.python-list@python.org> <ABnDa.723$OV3.69695653@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3EDE0CEC.8000004@ghaering.de>

[Still cc-ing to pypgsql-users so that this is documented in the right 
place]

John Fabiani wrote:
> The output from ldd is as follows:
>         libpq.so.2 => not found
>         libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40027000)
>         /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x80000000)
> The output from ls is as follows:
> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           12 2003-05-29 09:22
> /usr/lib/libpq.so.3 -> libpq.so.3.0
> -rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root        96044 2003-03-17 07:57
> /usr/lib/libpq.so.3.0

You can try to create the appropriate symlink:

ln -s /usr/lib/libpq.so.3.0 /usr/lib/libpq.so.2

but I'm not sure this really works.

I'd recommend to compile from sources instead.

> It appears I have the wrong libraries - right?

Yes.

> So (I'm guessing) how do I compile the source?
> 
> I noticed that the tar file has setup.py (but that does not work).

Sorry, but "Does not work" is a much too incomplete description of the 
problem.

> You'll have to walk through this process.

First you need to have the appropriate packages installed. I reckon gcc 
and postgresql-devel should be enough.

If you still have problems building, please post the complete output of 
"python setup.py build".

ciao,

-- Gerhard





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sat Jun 21 16:21:46 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 14:21:46 -0600
Subject: "a in b" calls a.__cmp__, why?
In-Reply-To: <20030621194253.GA4779@nl.linux.org>; from gerrit@nl.linux.org on Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 09:42:53PM +0200
References: <20030621194253.GA4779@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <20030621142146.A1652@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Gerrit Holl:
> Why does a container-sequence's __contains__ call obj.__cmp__?

Imagine an implementation of list.__contains__:

    def __contains__(self, sought):
        for obj in self:
            if obj == sought:
                return True
        else:
            return False

Note the comparison.  How else would it know whether object X
found in the list is the same as object Y being sought?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Our analysis begins with two outrageous benchmarks."
  -- "Implementation strategies for continuations", Clinger et al.




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Sat Jun 14 22:00:17 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:00:17 +1000
Subject: Twisted - listenTCP and connectTCP on the same reactor?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.06.15.00.01.18.957592@comcast.net>
References: <pan.2003.06.15.00.01.18.957592@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20030615020017.GA23100@frobozz>

[While some Twisted developers do read comp.lang.python, you're usually
better off trying the twisted-python at twistedmatrix.com mailing list]

On Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 08:01:19PM -0400, Ed Young wrote:
> 
> The question: I am working on an application to application
> data transporter.  It has to listen as well as connect.
> I've got the listenTCP working well.  I am having trouble
> getting the connectTCP to work.  I have a running reactor
> and I want to 'attach' a connectTCP to it.  How do I do
> this?

[...]

> class TransporterFactory(ClientFactory):
> 
>     def buildProtocol(self, addr):
>         return XmitProtocol()

[...]

> I am getting the error:
>   File "/home/ejy/src/py/aadm-twisted/aadm/aadmd/
>    XmitProtocol.py", line 33, in connectionMade
>     self.xmitq = self.factory.xmitq
> exceptions.AttributeError: XmitProtocol instance has 
> no attribute 'factory'
> 
> 
> This seems to be contradictory to what the docs say.
> Any guidance in this would be greatly appreciated...

This is contradictory to the docs, but only because your code explicitly
contradicts them ;)

A more idiomatic way to define your TransporterFactory would be:

    class TransporterFactory(ClientFactory):
        protocol = XmitProtocol

The problem is you overrode the default buildProtocol, which is:

    def buildProtocol(self, addr):
        """Create an instance of a subclass of Protocol.

        The returned instance will handle input on an incoming server
        connection, and an attribute \"factory\" pointing to the creating
        factory.

        Override this method to alter how Protocol instances get created.
        """
        p = self.protocol()
        p.factory = self
        return p

So you changed the behaviour; specifically, you didn't set a .factory
attribute on the protocol you built.

-Andrew.





From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Sat Jun  7 15:44:02 2003
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 21:44:02 +0200
Subject: Is Python lightweight?
References: <8b336527.0306061439.72d23063@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbtf9i$jvh$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

"kk" <kkennedy65 at yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:8b336527.0306061439.72d23063 at posting.google.com...
> I just read a comment to an article claiming that an application
> sucked, and the reason was because it was written in Python.  It went
> on to say that it pulls in some 40MB (I assume into memory), and
> insinuated that it was "bloat-ware". In case you really care, the
> application they were talking about is Redhat's "Up To Date" (software
> update tool).
<..snip...>

Others already pointed out the XP process monitor via the well known
CTRL-ALT-DEL.

I personally use the bloating not only for the RAM size, but also for the
source code size. I recently wrote a short article about bloating:
"Exploration of the bloating of software"
www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/BloatingExploredPaper.pdf
In my opinion is Python one of the many small ingredients needed to prevent
bloating: its expressiveness or high density of solving the problem helps to
get a non bloated realization.

>From many measurements which I have seen the footprint of Python is not very
large (see the language shootout site), Java was significantly larger, but
plain C is normally much smaller.

In most cases for real programs the design determines the footprint: poor
chosen data structures can consume large amounts of memory. Not
understanding the tool you use can also cause disasters: lists and
dictionaries are very powerful, but using them in the wrong way may cause
exceptional amounts of memory being used.

In www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/MIconceptualViewPaper.pdf
you can read the memory budgets of a commercial product based on
Objective-C, which contained also lots of Collections and Dictionaries.
Objective-C is also rather dynamic (not as much as Python), but the memory
sizes could be well managed and were only marginally (ca 10%) larger than
the more conventional C based systems.

regards Gerrit
--
www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/






From str at iis.fhg.de  Tue Jun 17 05:06:32 2003
From: str at iis.fhg.de (=?iso-8859-15?Q?Wolfram_Strau=DF?=)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:06:32 +0200
Subject: string.find does not work in file
Message-ID: <oprqwl86l2sbtoux@news>

Hi,
I have a problem to run the following lines in a file.
>
import string
f = open('in.txt')
for l in f.readlines():
	print string.find(l, '"\n')
<

In my python shell (version 2.2.2) on a W2000 system the code finds all 
lines with the pattern. But running the same code as a python scipt in a 
shell it does not find any pattern.

If you have any idea, please let me know. Thanks Wolfram

-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Fri Jun  6 13:46:53 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 10:46:53 -0700
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
In-Reply-To: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304FE7B94@mail.hebmex.com>
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304FE7B94@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <1054921613.2139.223.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Fri, 2003-06-06 at 09:56, sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> > 
> > Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
> > 
> > Maybe we - being the people wanting to move to WxPython - should write a
> PEP...
> >
> 
> Hmmm... and maybe wxPython has not become the defacto gui for
> python for a reason.
> 
> Many will attest to having similar experiences with it as I,
> that it's a horrible mess to get working.  I've tried several
> times in the past to get it working on linux, to no avail.

Perhaps that has more to do with your Linux distro than anything.  I've
never encountered a problem (except for the occasional cvs won't compile
situation).  I have heard of people having problems but mostly they were
people that probably should never have had rights to install software
anyway <wink>.

But that's really an argument to have it in the standard distro: it
simplifies installation.  Tkinter is easy because it's done for you. 
This argument reminds me of people who claim Windows is easier to
install than Linux because, well, it came preinstalled on their Dell.

> OTOH, Tkinter is maintained by the core python developers,
> and they understand it's inner working.  Also, Tk is a very
> flexible toolkit, and there exist many widgets you can download
> for it.  Adding support for those external widgets to Tkinter
> is downright trivial, since Tkinter uses tcl internally, and
> you can send tcl commands "down the pipe" for these other
> widgets.

It is still a dated and rather weak toolkit compared to any of the other
candidates.  The ability to "send tcl commands" is *not* a selling point
<wink>.

Further, a big problem I had with Tkinter was installing these
additional widgets you mention.  I had far more problems with that sort
of thing than I have ever had installing wxPython (which probably
includes the widgets you had to download for Tk).

> wxPython is a complex beast, as is wxWindows.  I'm not saying
> it doesn't have it's place, but I don't think it's place is
> being the primary gui for Python, at least, not yet.

There are two main problems with wxPython at this point:
1. Somewhat steep initial learning curve (at least when compared to
Tk).  This is probably exacerbated by lack of tutorial material and the
reference manual being written for C++.
2. More difficult to port (and some ports aren't finished)

Despite this, I'd still support it as the de facto standard.  Maybe not
today, but I'd guess that within a year most of the important ports will
be done. 

I'd sum up the Tk/wxPython comparison this way:
wxPython: high cost of entry, long-term payoff
Tkinter: low cost of entry, long-term suffering

> Fox toolkit anyone?

Does anyone actually use that?

> these are just my 2 cents, so don't go start any holywars
> on my account.

Far too late for that, infidel.


"Why the hell hasn't wxPython become the standard GUI for Python yet?"
                                                                -- Eric
S. Raymond



-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From stan at stanheckman.com  Sat Jun 28 15:24:43 2003
From: stan at stanheckman.com (Stan Heckman)
Date: 28 Jun 2003 15:24:43 -0400
Subject: (Numeric) should -7 % 5 = -2 ?
References: <87k7b6cf3d.fsf_-_@schedar.com>
Message-ID: <87brwigg3o.fsf@schedar.com>

Never mind, this is documented in the FAQ to be the expected behavior.

-- 
Stan



From dickinsm at umich.edu  Mon Jun  9 11:16:49 2003
From: dickinsm at umich.edu (Mark Edward Tristan Dickinson)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:16:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Is the 2.2.3 LaTeX documentation in hiding?
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0306091115460.27394-100000@s0100.math.lsa.umich.edu>

I just downloaded what purported to be the Latex documentation for
Python 2.2.3, from the usual place:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/download.html

But the files latex-2.2.3.tar.bz2 and latex-2.2.3.tgz seem to contain
June 9th documentation for Python 2.3b1 (complete with sets,
enumerate(), etc) and not for Python 2.2.3.  Does anybody know where I
can get hold of the LaTeX documentation source for Python 2.2.3?

All the best,

Mark





From nas-usenet at arctrix.com  Thu Jun 12 15:23:27 2003
From: nas-usenet at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 19:23:27 GMT
Subject: Use __del__ methods to improve gc?
References: <vegt5ii1vo4v81@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Pq4Ga.1648$%8.151@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>

Edward K. Ream <edreamleo at charter.net> wrote:
> My app has unlimited undo.  As a result, most "user" data never truly gets
> deleted: the undo stack keeps references to all such data alive "forever".
> 
> I am wondering whether it would be a good idea to put dummy __del__ methods
> in the user data classes.  Would this help the gc by telling the gc what not
> to look at?

No.  The GC will still traverse those objects when doing a full
collection.

  Neil



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jun  6 02:24:32 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 08:24:32 +0200
Subject: 64 bit python
References: <701f25e6.0306040749.d649f7f@posting.google.com> <m3n0gxlli8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bblki1$80r$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu> <m3k7c1156b.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bbnm6p$mgj$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu> <m3d6hso4hr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bbo7nn$ql3$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <m3znkvyb8f.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"E. McKay Hyde" <hyde at math.umn.edu> writes:

> So, struct.so builds without errors and then I get a seg fault.  The
> compiled executable 'python' runs without any obvious problems.  I'm
> going to dig into the Makefile to see if I can find exactly where it
> is crashing.

The most likely place is the attempt to import the newly-built module.
So running the python, and performing an explicit 'import struct'
should give the same crash. It would be good if you could find out why
it crashes (probably using a debugger). If you want to work around
this problem, you can try linking the struct module statically through
Modules/Setup.

In any case, it would be great if you could submit your experience to
sourceforge.net/projects/python, either as a patch to configure.in, or
as a patch to README.

Regards,
Martin




From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Mon Jun 16 18:07:32 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:07:32 +0100
Subject: Python as a Language Choice
References: <bckvg4$kdoar$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <hifsevksoqegp0hiun38onurbceteo8m48@4ax.com>

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:42:29 -0700, "Cousin Stanley"
<CousinStanley at hotmail.com> wrote:

>   o Free ... Open-Source ... Cross-Platform ...
Yes.

>   o Easy to learn, easy to use, and VERY readable ...
Yes

>   o Power/Punch ratio is fairly high ...
>
>        That is, get a lot of work done
>        in only a few lines of code ...

Power to punch yes, but I don't care how many lines of code.  I'd
sooner quickly write a dozen lines of nice clear Python than spend
hours agonising over one line of indecipherable APL to do the same
job.

>   o Very active and friendly development community
>     centered in comp.lang.python where one can read
>     and learn from daily posts by the authors themselves
>     of popular and current Python books and modules ...

Yep.

>   o Large and diverse set of Application Programming Interfaces
>     available in many areas ...

Not really a factor for me; I just as often use a plain text editor.

>   o Multiple choice for GUI programming ...
>
>         [ Tk | GTK | QT | wxPy | others ... ]

I only want one, but it has to be one I like :-)

>   o Core languange is readily extensible through
>     and embeddable in other languages ...

I must look at that some time.

One factor for me that isn't in your list is the extensive
availability of libraries such as numeric and the XML stuff.



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 23 07:50:57 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:50:57 +0100
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org> <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com> <slrnbf8tsd.qc.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <m3r85nmoch.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnbf9fem.1ej5.missive@localhost.my.domain> <m3wuffi1x7.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <23891c90.0306230142.83612c8@posting.google.com> <3EF6D5DD.15420D8F@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3EF6E9A1.74E45E69@hotmail.com>

Paul Boddie wrote:

>> Indeed. The assertion that "7-bit plain text ASCII" is even a
>> meaningful format is highly dubious, at least when it comes to
>> understanding the information presented in that format.

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> 7-bit ASCII is pretty clear, it's just ASCII (which only defines the
> lower 7 bits).

I think we could find our discussion going around in circles here, because one
person's encoding is another person's format. I think it is appropriate to
define some terminology for further discussion

Encoding: (Roughly) A mapping from byte values to character glyphs or
references.

Structure: (Roughly) A sequence of (possibly nested) content areas, with
embedded character tokens delimiting areas of content, e.g. "\n". It should be
possible to write a deterministic processor which parses a structure.

Format: A given structure, which may be stored in a file in one or more
encodings.

I believe that some of the proponents of ASCII as a format are confusing
encoding with file structure. Yes, ASCII can be used to represent MIME
documents, for example, but MIME also implies a complex structure, which must be
parsed. This posting is encoded in 7-bit ascii, but it's not a MIME document
(although it will get wrapped in a MIME document and unwrapped before you read
it).

I propose that having to write special case parsers for every novel format that
an app designer might devise for their application is a significant burden.
Deciding your delimiters and grammar rules is usually non-trivial. Encoding that
grammar is also non-trivial. There is undoubtedly a benefit to be had from
following that process: clarity of expression (e.g. "python" v. "xython"), speed
and memory efficiency, etc. But if you're just shunting basic data around (e.g.
the classic "purchase order" example), then maybe this extra effort is not worth
it. Even more so when you're exchanging data with other peoples systems: you
then have to implement your format processors on their platform too, e.g. in
Java.

With app-specific formats, you most often have to use app-specific data models.
This is a good thing when there is a clear and specific advantage to the data
model, such as more efficient querying, or memory efficient representation. But
you still have to write bespoke class hierarchies and query processors for the
data model. If you're just sending and receiving purchase orders, then maybe a
proprietary format is not worth the effort.

What XML gives in relation to all the above is

1. It deals with (almost) all data interchange encoding problems, in a manner
that is cleaner than other formats. The user should declare a character encoding
for the file, and if they don't specify one, then they get the default "utf-8".
The recipient can easily decipher what they've received, without guessing or
sophisticated processing.

2. It deals with all format issues, permitting you to represent most imaginable
data relatively cleanly, without having to decide delimiters, tokens, grammar
rules, etc.

3. It provides a very wide range of interoperable software that gives a full
range of choice when making trade-offs of speed vs resources vs usefulness, etc.
By this I mean that, for example, you could process with SAX2 and build your own
object model, or you could just build a DOM, thus saving yourself a stack of
work but consuming a fair percentage of your system memory (which you may or may
not care about).

4. Building an instance of a data model for an XML file is trivial, even for the
beginner

mydom = xml.dom.minidom.parse('myfile.xml')

I wonder how the average newbie would get on with, say, SPARK or PLY, parsing
something like URIs, HTTP or MIME?

5. XML offers a number of specialised query languages, which are suitable for a
wide range of use cases. Not having to write your own query processors is a
significant time saving. Furthermore, the query strings will be completely
platform-independent (assuming compliance of the processor with standards).

6. XML offers a number of schema languages which allow you constrain the content
of a document to a fine degree. In a proprietary grammar scenario, you would get
this kind of structure validation for "free" as a result of implementing your
grammar. With XML, it's an optional extra step that you can take, meaning that
newbies can get started easily, and advance their knowledge as and when they
need to. The schema documents are also completely platform independent (though I
don't dare to think about how large the test suite is for XML-schema. TREX and
Relax are superior, IMHO).

I'm not putting down proprietary formats. When XSL started out, Xpath had not
yet been separated from XSLT (which had not yet been separated from XSL-FO).
Some attempts at enabling node selection from a tree structure involved writing
matching rules that were expressed as XML documents. They were highly
unreadable. Thankfully, the Xpath people decided to adopt a non-XML grammar, and
Xpath queries are now very simple and powerful. I've taught several beginner
programmers Xpath, and they've all got most of it very quickly. If the queries
were expressed as XML documents, I'm sure they would have found it more
difficult to learn.

And then, of course, there is the best example of all: our beloved python. I
shudder to think how horrible python would look if the syntax were XML :-O~

And lastly, there is URIs. I'm pretty certain that if URIs were expressed in
XML, we wouldn't be seeing them on advertising billboards and taxi cabs.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From jxlu at fudan.edu.cn  Sat Jun  7 06:51:44 2003
From: jxlu at fudan.edu.cn (Lu)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 18:51:44 +0800
Subject: Bug? print statement ends with ',' print a new line
Message-ID: <3ee1c3bb@shknews01>

C:\FAT32\py>type counter.py
import sys
import threading

class Counter:
    def __init__(self,count=0):
        self.count=count
    def start(self):
        if self.count>0:
            print self.count,'.',
            self.count-=1
            t=threading.Timer(1,self.start)
            t.start()
        elif self.count==0:
            print self.count

counter=Counter(int(sys.argv[1]))
counter.start()

C:\FAT32\py>counter.py 5
5 .
4 . 3 . 2 . 1 . 0

C:\FAT32\py>





From plb at linuxmail.org  Thu Jun  5 21:22:00 2003
From: plb at linuxmail.org (plb)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 18:22:00 -0700
Subject: error in configure script with Python
References: <37aad647.0305221152.3f1b9bc@posting.google.com> <6d802d4a.0305290105.7767c5a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <37aad647.0306051722.36c670c3@posting.google.com>

akalus at gmx.de (akalus) wrote in message news:<6d802d4a.0305290105.7767c5a at posting.google.com>...
> plb at linuxmail.org (plb) wrote in message news:<37aad647.0305221152.3f1b9bc at posting.google.com>...
> > Hello, 
> > 
> > I'm installing a package (fluxspace for fluxbox wm) and it requires
> > Python.  I have Python installed.  When I run the configure script I
> > get these errors at the end.
> > 
> > >checking for python... /usr/bin/python 
> > >checking for python version... 2.2 
> > >checking for python platform... linux2 
> > >checking for python >= 2.2... okay 
> > >checking for headers required to compile python extensions... found 
> > >checking for python-config... no 
> > >checking for Py_Initialize in -lpython2.2... no 
> > >checking for Py_Finalize in -lpython2.2... no 
> > >checking for Py_IsInitialized in -lpython2.2... no 
> > >configure: error: Unable to determine proper Python link flags. 
> > 
> > I'm not sure what I need to do to fix this as I do not know much about
> > Python? Any ideas?
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > plb
> 
> I am having exactly the same problem. Did you find any solution?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Andre


No never did.  Maybe someday I'll try and figure it out...



From svbrk at start.no  Tue Jun  3 07:34:24 2003
From: svbrk at start.no (Svein Brekke)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 04:34:24 -0700
Subject: python IDLE on win2000 doesn't startup
References: <bbf7r6$27sm$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <21298535.0306030334.243a579c@posting.google.com>

> [snip]
> any idea wjy the IDLE doesn want to run? do i have to install TkInter
> separately???

No, you don't have to install TkInter seperately.

Try opening a DOS shell and start it with python:
c:> python c:\python22\tools\idle\idle.py
Then the error message is kept in the shell, maybe that helps.

BTW: I recommend using IDLEfork (http://idlefork.sourceforge.net) in stead;
it works well on your configuration and it has a nice windows installer.

Svein



From rbsharp at gmx.de  Mon Jun 16 11:29:22 2003
From: rbsharp at gmx.de (Richard Sharp)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:29:22 +0200
Subject: HL7 servers in Python?
References: <mailman.1055452471.12090.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.16.15.29.22.27309@gmx.de>

On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 07:10:26 +1000, Tim Churches wrote:

> Does anyone know of a Python HL7 socket server/daemon - that is, a
> daemon which accepts socket connections on a TCP port from an HL7
> source, receives an HL7 message via the connection, hands off the
> message for processing, and then sends back an ACK or NACK H7 message -
> usually synchronously, via a blocking connection (thus the server needs
> to be multi-threaded)?
> 
> HL7 stands for Health Level 7 (where 7 represents the 7th layer of the
> OSI network stack) and is a widely-used standard for communication of
> medical information. I'm not looking for HL7 message assembly or parsing
> libraries, just the socket server bit. Perhaps the SocketServer module
> in the Python library makes this so trivial that no-one has felt the
> need to write a specific HL7 server in Python? Anyway, I've looked on
> Google but can't spot anything obvious.

It is extremely doubtful, given the specialised nature of the question,
whether most people understand what you want. Given that HL7 is really
only sending and receiving some information in a curious format, and that
you either receive data and then send the other side an ACK or a NAK, or
wait until they do that in reply to your message, it is really not all
that complicated.

The short answer to you question ist Twisted -
http://www.twistedmatrix.com

What may confuse you is that it does not use blocking sockets and
therefore does not need to be multithreaded, although I think it can be,
but it does work.

My bread and butter Python work is software that interfaces between a
Pathology System running any number of versions of Unix and some
overarching Hospital System that provides me with patient data and to
which I deliver reports and accounting data, mostly, but not always, in
HL7.

I have one Pathology Unit that does work for two hospitals and
communicates with two hospital systems. With Twisted I basically subclass
protocol.Factory and implement the necessary submethods.

It is a little daunting at first and there was at the time (about 2 years
ago) when no usable documentation worth speaking of was available. I am
also stuck at the moment with Twisted 0.18.0, because it runs with Python
1.5.2, and I had trouble getting Python >= 2.0 running on the all the
Unixes I had to get it running on. In the meantime, I think I've got that
under control.

If you're interested in looking at the programms I will have to ask the
company I developed the software for, but the complete program is only ca.
800 Lines and covers 4 Low Level Protocols.

I hope I have been of some help. Once people realise that what you want is
some sort of select-loop-server, then they will probably gush forth with
helpful suggestions.

Greetings,

Richard Sharp



From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Mon Jun 16 17:01:42 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:01:42 +0000
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr>

Tim Rowe wrote:
(snip)

> So if we're going to have meaningless
> polemic, let me try mine :-)
> 
> "The choice between compile time testing and run-time testing is the
> choice between the programmer finding the bugs and the customer
> finding the bugs".

Oh, really ? So I guess that all software from a well-known editor from 
Richmond are written in a language that do not have 'compile-time testing' ?

Please be serious. If 'compile time testing' (well, the few tests a 
compiler can make) was enough to produce bug-free programs, we would all 
be programming in [please insert your favorite statically-type language 
name here].

Bruno Desthuilliers




From ed at membled.com  Sun Jun  8 07:12:33 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 08 Jun 2003 12:12:33 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <PbidnQB3TIQbEX-jXTWcpg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <l18yschlge.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

>>I am just asking, why is it that the body of an anonymous function
>>cannot contain statements?
> 
>Since you have rejected my and others explanation, I will stop.

So far people have mentioned that Python distinguishes between
expressions and statements, which is a description of 'what' the
language does, but they haven't really explained 'why' this means that
an anonymous function definition, which is an expression, could not
contain a one-line statement.

It seems a little like this conversation with a vegetarian:

    - Will you have some bacon?
    - No thank you.
    - Why not?
    - I don't eat meat.
    - Why don't you eat meat?
    - I have already given you my explanation.

>>The fact that the expression / statement distinction exists is not
>>in itself a reason to prohibit statements from appearing in
>>anonymous functions.
> 
>You have yet to demonstrate that it is sensibly possible to do so.

I've given several examples, a possible grammar rule (use simple_stmt)
and a semantics (the same as a named def).

>>It seems to me from the Python grammar that the production
>>simple_stmt is a statement that fits on one line.
> 
>You clipped and did not answer my question as to what you mean by
>'line'.

What I meant by my answer was that for a formal definition of the idea
'statement that fits on one line', I propose to use simple_stmt from
the grammar.  I hope this is precise enough.

Instinctively I thought that a statement X fits on a line if

    def f():
      X

is a legal Python program, where X is a complete statement (that is,
it doesn't have unclosed strings or parentheses, and matches the
'statement' production in the grammar) and X does not contain a
newline character or ';' (which to me seems like a different way of
writing a newline).

But a more formal way of expressing this is to use the simple_stmt
production.

>You clipped and did not answer my question about multiple lambdas on
>one line.

I mentioned earlier that sometimes parentheses would be needed to
indicate the right way to group things (but I think my proposal does
not require any existing valid programs to be parenthesized).  By
multiple lambdas on one line did you mean something like:

    (f, g) = ((lambda x: print x), (lambda y: y + 5))

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From ulope at gmx.de  Tue Jun 10 17:08:47 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:08:47 +0200
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <mailman.1055276623.31088.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc5hd3$fhcqf$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>

"DavidW Blaschke" <dwblas at yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1055276623.31088.python-list at python.org...
> You suddenly realize that you no longer use bash, but
> automatically start writing in python instead.  (Let
> the bash vs. python flame wars begin.)
>

Bash? Whats that?
Can i eat that?





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun  9 13:08:14 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:08:14 -0400
Subject: reading/writing files in windows
References: <6bd9f01b.0306090825.37845495@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE4BEFE.B09B3F78@engcorp.com>

sameer wrote:
> 
> I create files in windows using python.  I have tried using \n and
> \r\n as the return character and they both work fine.  It's when I
> move a text file, written by my python program, across a network, open
> the file and save to it that all the text becomes jumbled up, and all
> return characters are lost.  How can I make it so this doesn't happen?

Post example code, and give more details about the way you 
"move a text file" across the network (exactly what command, what
OS, etc, are you using), and explain "jumbled up" in more detail,
and clarify whether by "return characters" you mean ASCII CR (value 13)
or ASCII NL (value 10, as usually represented by \n).

If you read and follow http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html 
it may also help us help you.

-Peter



From m at moshez.org  Sun Jun  1 10:15:51 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 1 Jun 2003 14:15:51 -0000
Subject: Some pythonic advice needed
In-Reply-To: <EOmCa.31502$1u5.2321@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
References: <EOmCa.31502$1u5.2321@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <20030601141551.28216.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Sun, 01 Jun 2003, Rudy Schockaert <rudy.schockaert at pandora.be> wrote:

> For some words there is more
> than one translation possible.

I assume the number of translation is usually small: it probably doesn't
even exceed 5, or 10 at most, right? In that case, the best is probably
to map original -> tuple of possible translation.

Then just check her answer for "in".

Here's an example, using antonyms instead of tranlsation:

import random
database = {
'light': ('dark', 'heavy'),
'easy': ('difficult',)
}

word = random.choice(database.keys())
print "give me an antonym for %s:" % word
answer = raw_input().strip()
if answer in database[word]:
    print "right"
else:
    print "wrong"

-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Fri Jun 13 14:25:00 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:25:00 GMT
Subject: Saving Files Under Windows
References: <3EE993CB.F2CE7D39@easystreet.com> <e5fa8458.0306130649.38a7fea5@posting.google.com> <3EEA0E37.500BB9D8@easystreet.com> <3EEA1578.1C38F271@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9399CFACD7A48JanC@213.118.79.108>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> schreef:

> Is it even possible to upgrade a Win98 or NT box to WinXP?  Or
> does it require a fresh install in either case or both cases?

It is possible but it's not a good idea IMHO.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From a at b.c  Sun Jun  8 11:33:31 2003
From: a at b.c (a)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 15:33:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Newbie Question re Python 2.2.2 WIN
References: <Xns9394A2EFE7E51pythonidaeunderscore@203.220.9.230>
Message-ID: <Xns9394A8AABA933abc@194.106.32.13>

Ben Minton <pythonidae_olivaceous at hotmail.com> wrote in
news:Xns9394A2EFE7E51pythonidaeunderscore at 203.220.9.230: 

> Hi All
> 
> Just downloaded python 2.2.2 zip for WIN & html zip for docs.
> Installed great, just now I have the gui open on the desktop, what
> next? 
> I am reading through the tutorial but can't seem to find 'howto write
> and save a simple file' which makes it kind of hard. Is there are a
> specific reference for the absolute beginner to make/save.edit files?

Python source is just plain text, you could use Notepad if you really 
wanted. The two ways of writing Python are;

- the Python shell (which gives you the prompt '>>>') and lets you type 
and run commands instantly - suited to quick testing of ideas, but not 
for writing and saving programs.

- Any text editor (preferably a Python-aware one with syntax 
highlighting, such as IDLE). 

I think IDLE defaults to showing you the shell, so go to File -> New 
Window to get to a text-editor instead. There you can write, save (file->
save) and run (press F5) programs.

Not a personal site, but another very nice Python tutorial is at;
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/

- sfb.



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun 11 21:59:50 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:59:50 -0600
Subject: DOM text to xml aarrgghhh!!!!
In-Reply-To: <78cae312.0306111724.1a3e433f@posting.google.com>; from tompol@hotmail.com on Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 06:24:57PM -0700
References: <78cae312.0306111724.1a3e433f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030611195950.B2857@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth huntermorgan:
  [...]
> can anybody help???? below is the code and below that is a small
> snipet of the course outline

Excellent problem report!

I was only able to duplicate your problem if I munged the tab
characters in the text into spaces (which I did quite
accidentally).  Without tabs,

>     tagSequence = re.compile("(^\d+)\t+")

never matches, so of course the document is empty.

If tabs are present as the text of your note indicates, the result
on my machine is not what you report -- an XML document with just
a root node -- but an exception.  (A NameError, to be precise.)
If that's fixed, there's an exception for having too many root
elements in the XML document.  Since you don't report any of this,
I assume you're seeing a tab-munging problem or some such.

A quick and dirty way to start figuring out what's wrong: add

        s = line
        print 'processing line:', repr(s)      # this
        target = tagSequence.search(s)
        print 'target is', repr(target)        # and this

to the code and run it again.

(I'm a bit surprised, btw, that
    rootElement = newdocument.createElement("2003 Course Outline")
works, since that's not a legal element name in XML.  You'll have
trouble trying to parse this file.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                             staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I may be wrong but I'm positive."  -- _Friday_, Robert A. Heinlein




From artyprog at wanadoo.fr  Thu Jun 12 17:06:19 2003
From: artyprog at wanadoo.fr (Salvatore)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:06:19 +0200
Subject: Twice instanciation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055449073.17159.python-list@python.org>
References: <bcakmg$jv7$1@news-reader14.wanadoo.fr> <mailman.1055449073.17159.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcaq1d$c0c$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>

W Isaac Carroll wrote:

> Salvatore wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>>
>> Is it possible to avoid twice instanciation
>> of the same variable ?
>>
>> class Global:
>>    def __init__(self,init=0):
>>       self.value = init
>>
>> g = Global() #instanciating one time ok
>> g = Global() #instanciating two times would raise an exception
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "instanciation" and "variable"?
> 
> If you are asking whether it's possible to prevent binding the same name 
> a second time, then no, it's not possible.

That's it - excuse my poor English ;-)

As I said to Manual, i'll propose another solution.

Thanks Isaac








From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jun  2 23:27:06 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 20:27:06 -0700
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.4 if using a variable
References: <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com> <895e4ce2.0306021715.4cc0ba06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EDC158A.61FA2042@alcyone.com>

"D.W." wrote:

> Evidently, python has different rules for numbers entered in
> interactive mode.  Try this little snippet or just using a float
> variable.  It works both as a program and in interactive mode.

It's because the interactive interpreter displays the repr of the value,
whereas print displays the str of it:

>>> x = 123.3
>>> y = x + 0.1
>>> str(y)
'123.4'
>>> repr(y)
'123.39999999999999'
>>> print y # this does the str
123.4
>>> y # this does the repr
123.39999999999999

It's not that Python handles the arithmetic differently, it's just that
it has trivially different ways of converting the numbers to strings for
display.  Unfortunately, this difference causes a great deal of
confusion.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Success and failure are equally disastrous.
\__/  Tennessee Williams



From tompol at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 30 04:54:47 2003
From: tompol at hotmail.com (huntermorgan)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 01:54:47 -0700
Subject: converting objects to string
Message-ID: <78cae312.0306300054.5e31084e@posting.google.com>

hi there,
i have an object reference "_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x01180C40"
how to i convert this into the string representative?

i am creating a simple dom oriented code project that takes in a txt
file and then prints it out in xml format.

<start_of_code>

import re
from xml.dom.minidom import *

def main():

    f = open('1.txt', 'r')
    text = f.readlines()
    f.close()
    
    doc = Document()
    co = doc.createElement("2003 Course Outline")
    doc.appendChild(co)

    keyRE = re.compile('(^[0-9])\t(\b[A-Z])\n')
    for line in text:
        firstLine = repr(keyRE) #????????
        co2 = doc.createElement(firstLine)
        co.appendChild(co2)

        print doc.toprettyxml(indent="  ")
if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

<end_of_code>

the txt file only has this in it "1	COURSE STAFF MEMBERS"

The print out of it returns this
>>> <?xml version="1.0" ?>
<2003 Course Outline>
  <<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x01180C40>/>
</2003 Course Outline>

as you can see 'repr(keyRE)' doesnt work
i would like the string "<COURSE STAFF MEMBERS>" and not 
<_sre.SRE_Pattern object at 0x01180C40>/

how do i do this???

thankyou



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jun 18 12:40:45 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 12:40:45 -0400
Subject: use member functions to access data in Python classes?
References: <3064b51d.0306180815.75869d6f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bcq4md$aag$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3064b51d.0306180815.75869d6f at posting.google.com>,
 <beliavsky at aol.com> wrote:
>
>In C++, it is generally recommended to declare the data within a class
>private and to access the data using member functions. Do experienced
>Python programmers usually use member functions to access data within
>classes, or do they access the data directly?

"It depends".  Generally speaking, though, most Python classes manage
data attributes without accessor functions.  If you later discover that
you were wrong, you can always keep the interface, switch to new-style
classes (if you haven't already done so), and make the attribute a
property instead.

One thing Pythonistas *don't* do is use accessor functions to keep a
data attribute private.  Because of Python's introspection capabilities,
there's essentially no true privacy protection, so you only use accessor
functions when you want to document that code is needed to manipulate an
attribute.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Wed Jun 18 16:09:23 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:09:23 +0100
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3fh1fvglg8g9tj00r9rl3tc11knk2o5of2@4ax.com>

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:15:50 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>
wrote:

>I will (slightly, I hope) breach netiquette by asking for a mail Cc of
>those pointers you may eventually unearth -- I'm leaving day after
>tomorrow for a long and convoluted trip and following news while at
>conventions, sprints &c is quite a problem...

Ok, but with two kids parties to organise and a work deadline looming
don't be surprised if you are back first (and if you are, could you
remind me about this one, as it's not easy to find old messages in
this reader).

>But this has little to do with the need of 'type declarations'.  I
>suspect that a statically typed language would also be better off
>without them, relying on type inferencing instead, a la Haskell (and
>Haskell's typeclasses to keep the inferencing as wide as feasible),
>for example.  But I have no research to back this up;-).

The stuff that I can't find at the moment doesn't look at stuff like
Haskell, so there may be something in type inference.  I keep meaning
to look into Haskell; last time I tried I got as far as an AI research
programme called "Lolita" and couldn't stop laughing long enough to
look at the language itself.  (Can you /imagine/ doing a web search
for that programme from work?)



From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jun 22 15:06:53 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:06:53 +0200
Subject: rexec safe with Python 2.1?
Message-ID: <3EF5FE4D.6040006@ghaering.de>

You may have noticed that rexec was pulled under 2.2.3 because it 
currently isn't safe. AFAIR the reason it became unsafe was new-style 
classes.

My question is wether falling back to Python 2.1 will make rexec safe again.

-- Gerhard




From p at ulmcnett.com  Thu Jun  5 12:20:17 2003
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:20:17 -0700
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
In-Reply-To: <1054829046.2139.5.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>
References: <E19NnV9-00031r-00@tswings.swing.cluster> <1054829046.2139.5.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>
Message-ID: <200306050920.17729.p@ulmcnett.com>

Cliff Wells writes:

> wxPython would be preferred over pygtk because it has been ported to
> more platforms.  

wxPython is still in active development, no? MacOSX is definitely not ready 
yet, at least.

> pyqt would be problematic for people not developing
> open source projects.

FWIW, the cost issue can be mitigated by buying the BlackAdder IDE 
(http://www.thekompany.com), which comes with (somewhat limited) commercial 
Qt licenses for Windows and Unix (not Mac, but PyQt doesn't support Mac yet 
anyway, and the license would still cover a Mac/X11 (ie Unix) 
distribution). It also comes with a PyQt license. Cost for BlackAdder is 
under $400, compared to purchasing the Qt Licenses for $1200 - $2000 per 
platform. There may be options other than BlackAdder, and it should be 
noted that the BlackAdder Qt license only applies to distributing Python 
code - you wouldn't be able to do C++ this way.

I tried Tkinter and then PyQt. I fully intended to try wxPython, but fell in 
love with PyQt, which is mature and stable other than the lack of 
deployment to native MacOSX. Tkinter does have the benefit of being easily 
portable, but it is kind of sluggish, doesn't look that great, and all that 
lambda stuff is difficult for me to grasp. PyQt documentation, as 
distributed by the BlackAdder folks, is also very good.

-- 
Paul McNett




From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Wed Jun  4 06:30:52 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:30:52 +1000
Subject: CGI to xml
Message-ID: <DTjDa.191$R44.8635@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Hi all

Please can i get everyones advice on what im about to do

I have a single controller.py script that runsa for all reuqests on the
webserver, it instantiates a cgi object then converts the cgi.FieldStorage
to an xml file then sends the xml request to an appserver. The cgi request
could include file uploads.

Is my method ok or is there a better alternative ?

many thanks

graeme







From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Thu Jun 19 14:12:44 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 19:12:44 +0100
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <mailman.1056026193.14397.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yfsu1am6in7.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> writes:

> Alexander Schmolck writes:
> > Maybe I'm a bit blinkered, but right now I can't see how
> > 
> >     dict(foo=1, bar='sean')
> > 
> > is so much better/more convinient than
> > 
> >     {'foo':1, bar:'sean'}
> 
> I think you've answered your own question. If you know that a particular
> dict is going to have simple string keys, then it's kind of a pain to
> remember to type the quotes around the keys. As evidence, I point to your
> own post, which should have been:
>       {'foo':1, 'bar':'sean'}

I can't remember having problems with this in practice (when I'm using a
syntax highlighting editor).

> Now, I'm not fully convinced that the new syntax useful enough to be
> worth having multiple ways to do it (one of which breaks as soon as
> you have a non-identifier key), but in the situation where it works,
> it's clearly (a little bit) more convenient.

I'm not saying it isn't (marginally) more convinient for a (common) special
case, but the bit you snipped asked whether it's worth the disadvantages.
Worse than a new, redundant, way to do things IMHO is that it also precludes
specifying options for dict instance creation (it's not that one couldn't come
up with some candidates) in the future and even makes subclasses of dict like
DefaultDicts that need such constructor options needlessly constructor
incompatible. I have yet to see a vaguely convincing example where the new
additional syntax conveys a non-marginal advantage and even if it did, why not
make it a classmethod or let the user write the necessary one-liner himself?
So why make python more perlish, for little apparent gain?

'as



From alan_salmoni at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 12 05:17:42 2003
From: alan_salmoni at yahoo.com (Alan James Salmoni)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 02:17:42 -0700
Subject: Why not BOA GUI builder?
References: <KgQFa.769$nX2.90862759@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <b68f71a7.0306120117.7e4e7c6d@posting.google.com>

I quite like Boa, and used it a lot when I first started programming
in wxPython, just to get an idea of what I was supposed to be doing -
I designed a GUI, and read the code to understand what did what and
where. Once I had a minimal level of knowledge, I went back to a text
editor again.

It's a very good application, though the way it works is slightly
different from other GUI builders such as Delphi/Kylix or VB, but that
doesn't necessarily take away from it.

>From what I understand, it is an alpha version and does crash from
time to time (so if you use it, remember to save your work often), but
then apparently the lead developer is a bit of a perfectionist and his
alphas are equivilent to most peoples beta releases. The best thing is
just to try it out on some small projects to see how you get on and
then judge for yourself if it meets your requirements.

Alan James Salmoni
SalStat Statistics
http://salstat.sunsite.dk

John Fabiani <jfabiani at yolo.com> wrote in message news:<KgQFa.769$nX2.90862759 at newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>...
> Hi,
> I just found BOA and I'm wondering why it took so long to here about it. 
> Why doesn't everyone use BOA?  What are the negatives?  It appears to be
> roses just running the demo.  So before I spend lots of time on BOA I'd
> like to hear from the neighborhood.  TIA



From markus_wankus at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 28 12:04:53 2003
From: markus_wankus at hotmail.com (Markus Wankus)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:04:53 -0400
Subject: Twisted - extending portforward (simple example)
References: <182bcf76.0306270242.35b2422b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <oprrhiyfcd8cxiwf@news1.on.sympatico.ca>

On 27 Jun 2003 03:42:20 -0700, Paul Moore <paul.moore at atosorigin.com> 
wrote:

> I hit a problem yesterday with my mail connection.

Well, if you are unlucky enough to be a Bell Sympatico customer (like me) 
on the 26th the blocked all traffic on port 25 without telling anybody.  It 
was really rather nice of them...

Gee, let's first raise the rates for the same service, then put a bandwidth 
cap on it, and now block port 25...and see how many people get pissed.

-- 
Markus



From belred1 at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 22 21:30:18 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 01:30:18 GMT
Subject: xrange
References: <rwkJa.1019010$OV.1115623@rwcrnsc54> <JbrJa.7647$Kg7.4897@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <YpsJa.107668$YZ2.275855@rwcrnsc53>
Message-ID: <KKsJa.107828$YZ2.275985@rwcrnsc53>

oh no...

>>> for i in enumerate(['a', 'b', 'c']): print i
...
(0, 'a')
(1, 'b')
(2, 'c')
>>> for i in zip(count(), ['a', 'b', 'c']): print i
...
(0, 'a')
(1, 'b')
(2, 'c')
>>> for i in izip(count(), ['a', 'b', 'c']): print i
...
(0, 'a')
(1, 'b')
(2, 'c')
>>>





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun  3 19:57:23 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:57:23 -0600
Subject: Whre is my object ??
In-Reply-To: <bbj4p4$f8n$1@news1.ucsd.edu>; from mr.kuta@libero.it on Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 02:42:57PM -0700
References: <bbj4p4$f8n$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <20030603175723.A2473@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth King Kuta:
> Ok, a little riddle for he Python community.

The main riddle seems to be to figure out what mental model you're
operating under; many of your specific questions just don't make
sense.  (Details below, after the walk-through of the interactive
session.)

> Follow this code (interactive):
> 
> >>> class marco:
> ...     pass
> ...

Creates an object (a class object, to be specific) and binds the
name 'marco' to that object.

> >>> objlist[0]=marco

Places a reference to that same class object in the first spot in
objlist (which I assume to have been created prior to the snippet
posted).

> >>> del marco

Unbinds the name 'marco', so it no longer refers to anything.  The
class object it used to refer to is still accessible via objlist,
so that object doesn't get destroyed.

  [...]
> >>> marco
  [...]
> '''exceptions.NameError : name 'marco' is not defined'''

Indeed; you unbound this name.

> Evidently "marco" object does not exist in the utermost scope (__builtin__
> ?)
> but it exit "inside" the list object and can be not only referenced but
> assignd too.
> So where is my object? (apart from the obvious mem location at 0x023824D8)
> Does it have a scope in which it exist ?

It's very hard to tell what you want to know.  You seem to think
that scopes are some kind of location in which objects reside; but
this is not so.

Understand first that the name 'marco' and the object to which it
refers at any given moment are different things.

Whether the *object* exists or does not exist depends on whether
Python's garbage collection mechanisms have decided to collect the
object.  This has nothing (directly) to do with scopes.

Whether the *name* is bound or not bound to anything depends on
previous assignment statements, del statements, etc., in scopes
which are relevant to the code at hand.  This has everything to do
with scopes.

Objects don't have locations other than their addresses in memory
(or, in context, their positions in lists and the like).

Also, __builtin__ isn't a scope, it's a module.

> Do list "create" a scope?

No.  A list does, however, hold references to objects, and thereby
keeps the referred-to objects alive.

> Is it another riddle on identifiers?

*Are* there riddles on identifiers?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                          staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Its force is immeasurable.  Even Computer cannot determine it."
                           -- _Space: 1999_ episode "Black Sun"




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jun  4 05:47:49 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 10:47:49 +0100
Subject: Yield inside try...finally
References: <bbiisd$76k$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <3EDCEC1F.96CB0766@hotmail.com> <bbkbi5$n97$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3EDDC045.E45DA524@hotmail.com>

Michael Sparks wrote:

> So the general form would be:
> 
> class Finality(Exception): pass
> 
> try:
>     thing = getThing()
>         try: # .. try, again
>             while thing.doMoreThingsThatMightBreak():
>                 yield thing
>             raise Finality
>         except Exception, x: # Where you want nested "finally"s
>             thing.necessaryShutdownFollowingFirstBreakable()
>             raise x
> except Finality: # Where you would want the last "finally"
>    pass
> except NastyExceptionThrowableByAllThoseMethods, e:
>    print "Whinge, Moan, Complain", e
> 
> I'm not convinced that I _like_ this version, but it's definitely an
> interesting alternative. (The thing I don't like is the "raise" in this
> casestrikes me as an abuse of what raise is for. I'll have a think.

Yes, it could be considered abuse, I suppose. It's just that I have a
tendency to use exceptions extensively in all my programs, because they're
such a clean way of categorising errors and problems, and raising them 
back up to the appropriate level. Since any program/system I write usually
includes a couple of dozen user defined exceptions, it seemed no harm to me
to create a new one to signify a particular event, and to use "raise" to
create it......

The real problem here is the fact that try..finally has been actively
disabled inside generators, because Guido's language designers intuition
tells him that the "contract" of finally clauses might be broken by their
use inside a generator which might never resume. 

But in your situation, where you pretty much guarantee that the generator
*will* be resumed, by your coroutine scheduler, this concern does not
apply.

Another way to look at it is this: If try..finally didn't exist in python,
then how would you achieve the same effect using try..except? That's
effectively the position that we are put in by Guido's design choice.

I think the only way is by raising your own finality exception, and sending
it through a catch-all exception handler. I genuinely cannot think of a
cleaner way to do it.

If only I had the self.confidence to raise it with Guido :-)

I looked through the other versions of your functions, and they weren't
nearly as clear as the first, desired, structure.

I'd be interested in reading about the results of your experiments with
coroutines, if you get a chance. Best of luck with it.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  5 18:04:59 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:04:59 -0600
Subject: Numeric don't compare arrays correctly
References: <3EDFBACD.2090802@wanadoo.es>
Message-ID: <bboeqc$rlk$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Maurix wrote:

> I have a problem with Numeric: (linux, python2.2, numeric 21.0)
> 
> It seem that don't compare correctly arrays.

It's not really a bug in numeric, but rather a quirk you'll have to get used to:

In [6]: logical_and(a>2.,a<4.)
Out[6]: array([0, 1, 1, 0, 0])

The problem is that and/or can't be overloaded.  So Numeric provides a familiy
of logical_* functions for this purpose:

logical_and  logical_not  logical_or   logical_xor

cheers,

f.



From f.jatta at itia.cnr.it  Thu Jun 19 02:54:17 2003
From: f.jatta at itia.cnr.it (francesco)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 23:54:17 -0700
Subject: compiling python 2.2 on QNX 4.25
Message-ID: <9eb80e5f.0306182254.747a24e8@posting.google.com>

Hi there,
I installed  Python 2.2 binaries on a QNX4.25 machine with Watcom 10.6
compiler.
At a first glance everything seems to work just fine
but the simple assignment: 

f=100.0 

gives a segmentation fault (SIGSEGV) error.  I heard that this could
be
fixed by changing tha stacksize when compiling with LDFLAGS = -N 48k
in the Makefile. However, when trying to compile (./configure was done
like this: configure --verbose --without-gcc --with-libm=""
--with-cxx=cc)

I get the following errors:

//1/openqnx/Python-2.2/Include/pythonrun.h(45): Error! E415: (col 66)
type cannot be defined or declared in a return type
//1/openqnx/Python-2.2/Include/pythonrun.h(45): Note! N393: (col 66)
included from //1/openqnx/Python-2.2/Include/Python.h(101)
//1/openqnx/Python-2.2/Include/pythonrun.h(45): Note! N393: (col 66)
included from //1//openqnx/Python-2.2/Modules/ccpython.cc(4)
//1/openqnx/Python-2.2/Include/pythonrun.h(65): Error! E415: (col 68)
type cannot be defined or declared in a return type
cc: /usr/watcom/10.6/bin/wpp386 exited 2
make: *** [Modules/ccpython.o] Error 2


Anybody knows how to recompile Python on QNX4 in order to solve the
stack
problem?

thanks in advance
Francesco



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jun  8 23:12:16 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 23:12:16 -0400
Subject: Simple Script to Combine/Seperate Lines of Text
References: <Xns939576449400Bpythonidaeunderscore@203.220.9.230>
Message-ID: <3EE3FB10.99ED3395@engcorp.com>

Ben Minton wrote:
> 
> Was wondering how to write a simple script that performs the following
> task:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> airncjrlfojqmxirnxplvmndrhqndj ... e (length n) combined with
> qpmgktincirzpwncjftewnchdtecru ... f (length n) equals
> motnciqaxhfyeklpgmchqicngiehfc ... a (length n)
> 
> and then
> 
> motnciqaxhfyeklpgmchqicngiehfc ... a (length n) subtract
> qpmgktincirzpwncjftewnchdtecru ... f (length n) equals
> airncjrlfojqmxirnxplvmndrhqndj ... e (length n)

No doubt someone with more brains than I have will be able
to figure out what you want, but I have to say that the 
problem is grossly under-specified.  Can you say precisely
what you mean by "combine" and "subtract"?  Are you adding
the ASCII values of each individual character, or something
else?  Maybe try a very small example using data that is
real... the above looks made up and probably hides what you
are really trying to say.

-Peter



From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jun 27 14:20:25 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 20:20:25 +0200
Subject: Error importing cgi module
In-Reply-To: <3EFC864D.3090805@ghaering.de>
References: <2fd0d25a.0306270901.c82972a@posting.google.com>
	<3EFC864D.3090805@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <3EFC8AE9.7000401@ghaering.de>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Your Python is built with SSL support and the wrong SSL libraries are 
> picked up. If you got your Python binaries elsewhere, that may be the 
> problem. You can build Python yourself in this case. [...]

That should have been: "If you've got your Python binaries *from* 
elsewhere ..."

-- Gerhard




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Thu Jun  5 06:50:08 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:50:08 +1000
Subject: Twisted reactor 'signal only works in main thread' error?
In-Reply-To: <3edf12f3$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
References: <3edf12f3$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <20030605105008.GA18487@frobozz>

On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 10:52:51AM +0100, Richard wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am using execfile inside a Thread derived class to run another Python
> script. The source for this script is below. The problem is, when I try to
> run it I get the following error message:
> 
> Exception in thread Thread-1:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
[...]
>   File "URFParser.py", line 32, in start
>     reactor.run()
[...]
>     signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, self.sigInt)
> ValueError: signal only works in main thread
> 
> ####
> 
> I've had a look at the Twisted docs but am only very new to Twisted and so
> can't really figure out how to fix this, am I right in thinking that a
> reactor can only operate inside the main thread of a program due to some
> signalling it uses? If so, is there any way around it?

Use reactor.run(installSignalHandlers=0).  By default, the Twisted reactor
will install signal handlers so that it can shutdown cleanly given SIGTERM,
etc.

> The source for TestServer.py is here:

I've made a couple of quick comments.

> ####
> 
> from twisted.internet.protocol import Protocol, ServerFactory
> from twisted.internet import reactor
> 
> class ConnectionEndpoint(Protocol):
> 
>  def connectionMade(self):
>   #Executed in a new thread for every incoming connection
>   self.transport.write(self.factory.m_TestString)

This comment is wrong; Twisted is asynchronous, and processes all the
connections in the same thread.

>  def dataReceived(self, data):
>   print data
> 
> class ConnectionEndpointFactory(ServerFactory):
>  protocol = ConnectionEndpoint
>  m_FrameQueue = None
>  m_TestString = "Test"
> 
>  def setQ(self, q):
>   self.m_FrameQueue = q
> 
> 
> class URFServer:
>  m_Address = []

Having a mutable class attribute is usually a bad idea; it probably doesn't do
what you think it does...

>  m_Factory = ConnectionEndpointFactory()
> 
>  def __init__(self, q, address):
>   self.m_Factory.setQ(q)
>   self.m_Address = address

...although your constructor immediately assigns an instance attribute with
the same name, so the earlier "m_Address = []" line is completely redundant
(and misleading!).

>  def start(self):
>   reactor.listenTCP(int(self.m_Address[1]), self.m_Factory)
>   reactor.run()

So this is the line you need to replace with
reactor.run(installSignalHandlers=0).

I hope this helps!

-Andrew.





From mack at incise.org  Thu Jun 12 17:57:15 2003
From: mack at incise.org (mackstann)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:57:15 -0500
Subject: Glue code
In-Reply-To: <2996386.1055452530@dbforums.com>
References: <2996386.1055452530@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <20030612215715.GL332@incise.org>

On Thu, Jun 12, 2003 at 09:15:30PM +0000, DB_RobertP wrote:
> What systems do people use to easily make C/C++ code visible to Python?
> I'm currently checking out Swig, but I've heard others mentioned. If
> anyone has any experience with these systems, could you recommend one to
> look into? Also, any other general pointers when trying to extend C/C++
> code to python sctipts would be greatly appreciated.

Swig is what we have been using on a new project I've been working on
(a scriptable window manager, kahakai.sf.net), and although I'm quite
into python, I don't know a lot of C or C++ so I haven't done much in
the way of the work with swig.  So, I can tell you that it has been
working well for us, but I can't provide much insight into the
intricacies of it, pros/cons, etc.

Here's the little I know:

If you're going about "extending" python (vs "embedding"), you basically
just create swig wrapper files for the C/C++ header files, compile a
shared object, and then all of your functions/classes/data/etc are
"translated" into python (or other language) extensions by swig,
transparently, compiled to a shared object, and then you just load that
up and work with it like a normal python module (or perl module, or what
have you).

Anyways, within a few days we had rough python integration, and now
after a couple weeks we have almost complete python integration.  So it
definitely isn't a gargantuan undertaking.

That's about the extent of what I know. :)

-- 
m a c k s t a n n  mack @ incise.org  http://incise.org
If you put garbage in a computer nothing comes out but garbage.  But
this garbage, having passed through a very expensive machine, is
somehow ennobled and none dare criticize it.




From bobt at rubble.com  Tue Jun 17 02:05:38 2003
From: bobt at rubble.com (Bob)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:05:38 GMT
Subject: Help getting BLT extension working with python/tkinter on linux
References: <20030616.143151.1261034869.8390@hp.rubble.com>
Message-ID: <20030616.230357.581651489.8390@hp.rubble.com>

As a followup to my own post:

In article <20030616.143151.1261034869.8390 at hp.rubble.com>, I wrote:

> I'm confused about how to get the BLT package configured and working on
> linux. Here's my situation:
> 
> I have ActivePython installed, version 2.2. This includes tkinter and
> some other extensions, but since it doesn't have a complete tcl/tk
> installation I couldn't build other extensions against it. So I
> downloaded ActiveTCL, version 8.3.4.2 I believe (it has the same
> versions of tcl/tk as the ActivePython).
> . . .
> . . .
> but I can't get this extension to load manually:
> 
>   TclError: couldn't load file "/usr/local/ActiveTcl/lib/libBLT24.so":
>   /usr/local/ActiveTcl/lib/libBLT24.so: undefined symbol: TclpAlloc
> 
> This tells me that the BLT extension was found ok, but the actual
> dynamic loading of the library failed because it couldn't find the
> symbol  symbol?.
> 
> That's a basic allocation routine in the tcl library, libtcl8.3.so. This
> symbol is found in python2.2/lib-dynload/_tkinter.so, so why can't the
> blt library find it?

I downloaded python src distro from python.org and built it. I modified
Modules/Setup to include both tkinter and BLT, and specified the 
existing versions I had in the ActiveTcl installation. It all works fine.
This build of python must have tkinter built in, as there is no _tkinter.so
to be found in the hierarchy.

So anyway, I'm all set, but I would still like to understand why the other
installation wasn't working. Why couldn't the loading of BLT find
the TclpAlloc symbol?

Thanks,

Bob



From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Jun  9 13:29:16 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 17:29:16 GMT
Subject: Kerberos authentication for IMAP?
References: <bbtrf1$dbiin$1@ID-58778.news.dfncis.de> <m3y90dvzhl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bc2g5c$1nmq$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=):
| Alan Hoyle <alanh at unc.edu> writes:
|...
|> Which seems a bit more promising than the how can I set this up to use
|> my Kerberos tokens or TGT? 
|
| The tricky part is, perhaps, to fetch the token from the ticket
| cache. This would normally require wrappig the Kerberos library as a
| Python module, which hasn't been done for Kerberos 4; perhaps you
| could adapt
|
| http://starship.python.net/crew/fdrake/manuals/krb5py/
| http://pygss.sourceforge.net/

I'm sure it will take a Kerberos 4 module.  If 4 is anything like 5,
there are API functions to create and negotiate the authentication data
and you'd want to use them.  The Python imaplib part is there just to
get the data across the network through the IMAP protocol.  I've never
heard of a krb4 module, but I could imagine the author of such a thing
failing to appreciate that others would be interested (as I suppose
few would be - your IMAP server supports Kerberos 4 and not SSL?
Have you been borrowing Guido's time machine?)  

| Alternatively, you could try invoking command line utilities, and try
| to generate an authenticator from that.

Hm, I believe it would be much easier to write the IMAP component
of this email tool in some language (C) that can call the krb4 API.
Like fetchmail, which for all I know may already support krb4.
The shell script that invokes it could also invoke the spam filter,
assuming that's an external component.

Anyway, supposing that the krb4 module is ready to go ... The imaplib
authenticate function deals with the AUTHENTICATE command, 6.2.2 in
the IMAP4 RFC 3501, which is more generically a SASL implementation.
The authentication object is your responsibility to write, as the
author of a Kerberos 4 IMAP authentication plugin for imaplib.  It will
have to figure out who you are, and the name of the remote service, in
terms of Kerberos principals, and do whatever initial processing the
krb4 API calls for.  This can happen when the object is initialized,
and may create some initial data for the SASL exchange.

When the object is invoked (cf. __call__ standard special method),
its parameter is decoded data from the SASL exchange.  Feed that
into the negotiation, and return the result data.  Maybe there will
be no data from the server to start with, and if that's what you expect
then you may just ignore the input parameter at that point.  I doubt
you can know how to write this without looking at the source of the
IMAP service implementation, unless it's better documented than usual.
There may very likely be more to it than just plain krb4 authentication -
the server may need some additional data identifying the to-be-authorized
remote user, as opposed to the to-be-authenticated Kerberos principal,
for example.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jun 26 08:19:10 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:19:10 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Sep 24)
References: <up14av386chdda@corp.supernews.com> <3d9100c1$1@news.sentex.net> <vfji1l44eee16c@corp.supernews.com> <3EF9E00C.B61DF6AF@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <2xBKa.323243$3n5.245949@news2.central.cox.net>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3EF9E00C.B61DF6AF at engcorp.com...
> Cameron Laird wrote:
> >
> > Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> > >(I also don't know why a posting from February made it in the September
> > >QOTW except as an accident.  But didn't someone say there's no such
> > >thing as bad publicity? ;-)  )
> >
> > We call that "serendipity", not accident.
> >
> > Like Python itself, "Python-URL!" is not rigid.  It accomodates
> > variability.  It shrinks, it expands, it *breathes*, it occasi-
> > onally holds itself in reserve a little bit, until the timing
> > feels better.
> >
> > Sometimes "a little bit" extends over months.  OK, years.
>
> Wow!  Cameron, dude, you've got some serious backlog to read! :-)
>
> I think I posted the above question months ago... You were
> holding on to your reply just to make your point stronger, right? ;-)
>

Cameron Laird is currently away on an expedition with Guido van Rossum's
time machine, writing the Python URL for September 2007. He will attend to
your message when he returns to the present.

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun  9 21:41:27 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 21:41:27 -0400
Subject: py2exe and dynamic modules
References: <ve9ldqsa3h1d9d@corp.supernews.com> <3EE4D985.B091FA88@engcorp.com> <ve9ne08860r10a@corp.supernews.com> <3EE4EB9C.8533EE25@engcorp.com> <ve9sl37is8jp87@corp.supernews.com> <3EE4F3FF.9B3B31D1@engcorp.com> <ve9vg7h1lp319f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3EE53747.E7FF98BB@engcorp.com>

"Uwe C. Schroeder" wrote:
> 
> my test is
> 
> import sys
> sys.path.append('c:\\documents and settings\\ucs\\ibcache\\modules')
> try:
>         __import__('wecgla')
> except:
>         raise
> 
> print 'OK'
> 
> this is python 2.2.1 on win2k

I was actually on Python 2.0 on Win98, but tomorrow I'll try 
Python 2.2 on 98.  (I'll be even more likely to remember if
you'll email me offline. ;-)  Can you try with c:\temp instead
of the longer path and make sure that still fails?

I have access to a WinXP machine as well, in case it all works
fine under 98 but not XP.

-Peter



From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Jun  9 16:10:00 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 21:10:00 +0100
Subject: using urllib or httplib to post with ENCTYPE=mulitpart/form-data
References: <mailman.1054758548.9033.python-list@python.org> <87he751jla.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1054782491.12301.python-list@python.org> <bbmlee$kk6$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <mailman.1054823291.20112.python-list@python.org> <87of1cs8jq.fsf@pobox.com> <bsNEa.15691$7l6.12257@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com>
Message-ID: <87of176mhz.fsf@pobox.com>

Kevin Carlson <nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net> writes:
[...]
> Is there any way to use ClientCookie with httplib rather that urllib
> or urllib2?

No reason why not, but IMHO perverse.  :-)

You just have to call extract_cookies and add_cookie_header manually,
which means you need to make a couple of objects that satisfy the
request and response interfaces specified in the docstrings for those
methods (easy enough I guess, though I haven't done it myself):

from ClientCookie import Cookies
print Cookies.extract_cookies.__doc__
print Cookies.add_cookie_header.__doc__

I just released a 0.4.1a version.  Despite the alpha status, I
recommend using that if you're writing new code (or even if you're
not, probably).


John



From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Jun  5 10:25:29 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:25:29 +0200
Subject: Loop over list of pairs
Message-ID: <bbnjsu$bb260$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Hi!

What is the prefered way of loop over
a list like this?
 mylist=[1, "one", 2, "two", 3, "three"]

 thomas




From jason at tishler.net  Mon Jun  9 11:56:06 2003
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:56:06 -0400
Subject: Size of Cygwin's distribution
In-Reply-To: <bc28jj$e2b99$1@ID-99513.news.dfncis.de>
References: <bc28jj$e2b99$1@ID-99513.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20030609155606.GA1456@tishler.net>

Alejo,

On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 10:20:36AM -0500, Alejandro Lopez-Valencia wrote:
> Well, I am here downloading the 2.2.3 distribution that Jason Tishler
> so gracefully makes available to us Cygwin users. (Good work!)

You are quite welcome.

> Yet, I do have a little complain: size. Why is so big? There is a lot
> of unnecessary bloat caused by including byte-compiled files, both
> optimized and unoptimized. It is incredibly simple to have Cygwin's
> post-install script to generate all the byte-compiled files at
> installation file using python, compileall.py and a small shell
> script.

OK, submit a patch to remedy the above and I will consider it.  Note
that I am just tar-ing up the "make install" and doc trees.

Maybe it's time to split the monolithic package into multiple packages?
However, an important goal to keep in mind is minimizing the "cost" for
me to generate these packages.  Any solution must be script-able and fit
into my packaging infrastructure.

> Not everyone uses broadband!

Sorry, I've had a cable modem for 6+ years so I forget to think about
download size...

Jason

-- 
PGP/GPG Key: http://www.tishler.net/jason/pubkey.asc or key servers
Fingerprint: 7A73 1405 7F2B E669 C19D  8784 1AFD E4CC ECF4 8EF6




From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Fri Jun 20 15:15:21 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:15:21 +0100
Subject: Newbie on importing
References: <mailman.1056132640.18339.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qrm6fv4tqb13ls55i7u1pdi3f0u87q6sbv@4ax.com>

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:11:41 -0400, jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com
wrote:

>That example is still less than clear...
>
>>import sys
>>
>>Imports the module named 'sys'.
>
>Which get me access to what in 'sys'?

It gets you access to sys, and through sys to what's in sys.  so if
you want to use argv() then you have to type sys.argv().  But "sys" is
the only new identifier in your namespace, so it's nice and easy to
make sure it doesn't clash with other libraries and identifiers you
invent.

>
>>from sys import *
>>
>>Imports all names from sys (including names referring to functions).
>
>Likewise, what additional thing are available when doing this? 
>Is 'import sys' a subset of 'from sys import *'?

Not a subset, no.  That one imports everything that's /in/ sys into
your namespace.  So now if you want argv() you can just type argv().
But /all/ the identifiers in sys are now in your namespace, so you've
got to worry about possible interactions with other libraries and your
own identifiers.

Think of "import sys" as getting your toolbag out of the cupboard and
putting it on your workbench.  Think of "from sys import *" as getting
your toolbag out of the cupboard, emptying the contents all over your
workbench and putting the bag itself back into the cupboard.



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jun 12 12:26:08 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:26:08 -0500
Subject: can we have a filecmp.cmp() that accept a different buffer size?
In-Reply-To: <3EE837DC.5080802@nospam.com>
References: <3EE837DC.5080802@nospam.com>
Message-ID: <16104.43424.899523.247613@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    kendear> filecmp.cmp() uses a BUFSIZE of 8k to compare.  For files that
    kendear> are 500MB, the hard disk is really busy, going back and forth,
    kendear> while my 512MB RAM is sitting there, sipping margarita.  Can we
    kendear> have a version of filecmp.cmp() (and filecmp's other methods)
    kendear> that accepts a BUFSIZE, such as 1MB or more?

It's not the perfect solution, but you can bump filecmp.BUFSIZE before
calling filecmp.cmp(), like so:

    import filecmp
    filecmp.BUFSIZE = 1*1024*1024
    ...

    foo = filecmp.cmp(f1, f2)

Skip




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jun  4 17:13:00 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 23:13:00 +0200
Subject: pickle vs cPickle: error is not raised at unpickle / windows vs linux
 (!) (repost)
Message-ID: <3ede60dc$0$49110$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

(repost, my original message from four days ago didn't result
in any responses so there's a possibility it got lost...)

I'm experiencing  a problem with pickle vs cPickle.
The code below prints:
***pickle***
Creating t...
Thing.__init__ name= myname
Pickle t...
Restore t...
FAIL!!!  maximum recursion depth exceeded
***cPickle***
Creating t...
Thing.__init__ name= myname
Pickle t...
Restore t...
SUCCESS!!! name= myname

running with python 2.2/2.3 under windows and linux.

When I enable the __getinitargs__, I also get strange results:
- python 2.2.2 under windows tells me with pickle: FAIL!!!  __main__.Thing is 
not safe for unpickling.  (cPickle works)
- python 2.3b under windows tells me everything is fine
- python 2.2.2 *and* 2.3b under linux tell me everything is fine

(When I enable __setstate__, all cases work.)

My questions:
1) with the unmodified code, why doesn't cPickle raise an error when the 
unpickling gets in an endless loop ?
2) in the second case with __getinitargs__ enabled, why does windows tell me 
the object isn't safe to unpickle, while linux says it's all right?


Thanks for any answers!!

--Irmen


CODE:
------------------------------------
import pickle, cPickle

class Thing:
     def __init__(self,aname):
         print "Thing.__init__ name=",aname
         self.name=aname
     def __getattr__(self, attrname):
         self.name.trim()   # any method on the name attribute..
         raise AttributeError()

# enable the setstate *AND/OR* getinitargs method to make it work for pickle:
#    def __setstate__(self,args):
#        print "SETSTATE! args=",args
#        self.__dict__=args
#    def __getinitargs__(self):
#        print "GETINITARGS!"
#        return ["initname"]

def test(pickle):
     print "Creating t..."
     t=Thing("myname")
     try:
         print "Pickle t..."
         s=pickle.dumps(t)
         print "Restore t..."
         t2=pickle.loads(s)
         print "SUCCESS!!! name=",t2.name
     except Exception,x:
         print "FAIL!!! ",x

print "***pickle***"
test(pickle)

print "***cPickle***"
test(cPickle)




From bdeck at lycos.co.uk  Thu Jun  5 18:34:35 2003
From: bdeck at lycos.co.uk (deckerben)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 00:34:35 +0200
Subject: Best way under libxml2?
Message-ID: <3edfc470$0$16608$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Hello,

Sometimes I need to parse an XML document for a certain attribute value for
a specific element node. Right now I am using the solution:

>>> import sys, os
>>> import libxml2
>>> mydoc = libxml2.parseFile("C:/dosfiles/xml/somefile.xml")
>>> scontext = mydoc.xpathEval("descendant-or-self::dos/script/@shell")[0]
>>> text = scontext.getContent()
>>> text
'python'


As you see, it is working as it should, but I am not very happy about the
assumptions I am making with it. I feel that using the [0] subscript is an
unstable kludge to make libxml2 recognize the single attribute element
rather than returning a list of nodes. I was hoping to avoid time-consuming
looping, btw. But somehow, the whole thing starts looking less like python
and more like XSLT :-(

....

I am also looking for the fastest way to translate a result tree into a
array of strings. Each string is the total text of all Text and CDATA
children found for a single element node of the result tree.

Something like turning

<element>
1<![CDATA[2]]>3
</element>
<element>
1<![CDATA[2]]>3
</element>
<element>
1<![CDATA[2]]>3
</element>

into:

('123', '123', '123')

Here I have done:
    def gettext2(self, nodename):
        # get a xpath argument and return a string array from it.
        self.current_nodes = self.doc.xpathEval(nodename)
        report = []
        for system_node in self.current_nodes:
            # nodeobject.children always returns a list of nodes
            for i in system_node.children:
                a = i.get_type()
                name = i.nodePath()
                if i.get_type() == 'element':
                    # if a child is an element node, might have text, too
                    location = i.nodePath()
                    # send absolute nodepath to gettext2 (sub)subprocess
                    self.gettext2(location)
                    # DON'T USE BREAK here - it will kill all parent loops.
                if i.get_type() == 'text' or 'cdata':
                    element_text = i.getContent()
                    for ii in element_text:
                        # sometimes text node just an empty carriage return
                        if ii in ' \n':
                            pass
                        else:
                            header = "SYSTEM2data: " + name
                            report.append(header)
                            report.append(element_text)
                            break   # USE BREAK here or process may not end!
        # give the new text-array back to calling function
        return report

Where 'nodename' is an xpath argument, too.

This method is part of a class that already knows where the xml is :-) But I
don't like all the loops and subloops. If it isn't for the 'beak' near the
end, the routine turns into a harddrive virus !!!!!!

I don't have any specific questions here, but I am posting this junk because
all I know about it I read on websites and I am not sure I am taking the
right approach...


Ben













From leej at dsl.pipex.com  Sun Jun 15 19:02:26 2003
From: leej at dsl.pipex.com (Lee John Moore)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 23:02:26 GMT
Subject: Python class __init__(mandatory arguments?)
Message-ID: <bcitu2$jrrv8$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de>

Just for confirmation really: When I create a custom class, is
it *really* true that def __init__() arguments can only ever be
optional?  Eg:

class MyClass:
	param1 = None
	param2 = None
	def __init__(self, param1, param2):
		param1 = self.param1
		param2 = self.param2

myinstance1 = MyClass()
myinstance2 = MyClass("Hello", "World")
[snip]

I'm really unhappy that myinstance1 is allowed.  ;-)

I'm so accustomed to constructor arguments being mandatory in
C++ & OP classes....and yes, yes, I realise __init__() is not a
constructor (even though it looks like one), but if there's a
way I can *force* arguments upon class instantiation, I'd like
to know about it. :-)
-- 
"However far you may travel in this world, you
will still occupy the same volume of space."
                - Traditional Ur-Bororo saying



From sheila at spamcop.net  Thu Jun 19 22:44:19 2003
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:44:19 -0700
Subject: ANNOUNCE: JOTWeb 1.11, preview of new web application system.
References: <20030617162210.GB5896@tummy.com> <1055884182.1169.11.camel@emilio> <mailman.1055919212.4742.python-list@python.org> <m3he6nbr78.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <20030619102215.GC23876@tummy.com> <m3el1q9uio.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <mailman.1056066276.16798.python-list@python.org> <m3isr1pn6z.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <bct3qk.1do.1@kserver.org>

On 20 Jun 2003 11:11:48 +1000, Dave Cole <djc at object-craft.com.au> wrote in
comp.lang.python in article <m3isr1pn6z.fsf at ferret.object-craft.com.au>:

> 
> I firmly believe that for all but the most trivial of applications you
> need to separate the presentation and implementation.  This allows you
> to develop and modify the one aspect of the application mostly without
> breaking the other.  Initially the effort is higher as you trade both
> elements off against the other until an effective interface emerges.
> In the medium to long term though, the separation yields savings.

I just want to throw in my comments here and say that...

I am currently using Albatross to develop a somewhat complex application
which will be used by customers for accessing and managing an account.

I've been working on the project for 5 weeks so far. That includes my time
to "learn Albatross".

The learning is steep initially, but I am at the point where I COMPLETELY
appreciate the separation of the presentation and the implementation that
the Albatross framework uses. This means I can focus on one or the other
separately. Really cool, and once you get used to it, it makes the work go
faster, seems to me.

:)

There are a lot of Python web frameworks to choose from and I spent about a
week reviewing possible contenders. May have been others that would have
done well for my case, but I am very happy with the choice I made for
Albatross. Session management is a snap. :)


-- 
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From achrist at easystreet.com  Sun Jun 22 02:25:35 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:25:35 -0700
Subject: License Question
Message-ID: <3EF54BDF.46423D0A@easystreet.com>

I really do hate to discuss or argue about licenses.  Honest.
But this is just a little curious.  Not important, just curious,
so I've got to know, howcome?

License says:

"3. In the event Licensee prepares a derivative work that is based on
or incorporates Python 2.2.3 or any part thereof, and wants to make
the derivative work available to others as provided herein, then
Licensee hereby agrees to include in any such work a brief summary of
the changes made to Python 2.2.3."


I interpret this to mean that a distributed version of a python
script I write, created with Py2exe or the McMillan installer, 
since it includes Python is covered by this provision.  So, I've
got to put a copy of the news.txt file or something like it somewhere
in my distribution?  I don't have to make any other mention of Python,
but I've got to tell about changes in the current release, which is
why?

Al



From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Fri Jun  6 16:13:33 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 14:13:33 -0600
Subject: XMLRPC Authentication
In-Reply-To: <20030606193428.612EC21EC9@www.fastmail.fm>
References: <3EE0B8B8.6070602@optonline.com> <20030606160231.6470A2026F@www.fastmail.fm>
    <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061210520.21215@ns0.tbye.com> <20030606171737.0145427ED0@www.fastmail.fm>
   <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061227040.21250@ns0.tbye.com> <20030606175450.CEB7032900@www.fastmail.fm> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061356590.21537@ns0.tbye.com> <20030606193428.612EC21EC9@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20030606201333.B5A7D338B@www.fastmail.fm>

I'm getting closer.  Now I'm getting the following error when trying to
connect via the client.

[snip]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\share\python\uhg\uht\tsd\ClearCase\xmlrpc_client.py", line 7,
  in ?
    print server.runCmd("dir")
  File "C:\Python23\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 1021, in __call__
    return self.__send(self.__name, args)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\xmlrpclib.py", line 1308, in __request
    verbose=self.__verbose
TypeError: request() got an unexpected keyword argument 'verbose'
[/snip]

I've my code.  Any ideas.

On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:34:28 -0600, "Justin Johnson"
<justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> said:
> Ahhh,  okay....
> 
> So I would put code the do_POST to basically read the MD5 hashed
> userid:password, decrypt it, and verify that it is a valid user id and
> password?
> 
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:00:15 -0700 (PDT), dave at pythonapocrypha.com said:
> > On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Justin Johnson wrote:
> > 
> > > How do you specify the login id and password required on the server side?
> > >  The code I'm using is similar to the following.  I'm obviously missing
> > > something here... :-(  Thanks for your help.
> > >
> > > # Server code
> > >
> > > import SimpleXMLRPCServer
> > > from ccservice import CCService # A class providing methods for remote
> > > use
> > >
> > > server = SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer(("somehost", 8000))
> > > server.register_instance(CCService())
> > > server.serve_forever()
> > 
> > Sorry for not more of a detailed answer, but subclass
> > SimpleXMLRPCRequestHandler and override the do_POST method sorta like
> > this psuedo-code
> > 
> > def do_POST(self):
> >   Look at self.headers['authorization']
> >   if missing or wrong:
> >     self.send_response(401)
> >     self.end_headers()
> >     return
> >   # Otherwise call original
> >   return SimpleXMLRPCRequestHandler.do_POST(self)
> > 
> > (where "missing or wrong" = do the inverse of what the client side does
> > to
> > create the Authorization header)
> > 
> > -Dave
> > 
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
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From xiao_ao_jiang_hu at hotmail.com  Sun Jun  8 06:06:32 2003
From: xiao_ao_jiang_hu at hotmail.com (seagate)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 03:06:32 -0700
Subject: who can help me with jython? about the syntax analyzed
Message-ID: <d462dff9.0306080206.553a79a5@posting.google.com>

I want to use jython to analysis the python language. I found a
package named org.python.parser. perhaps that's the things I wanted.
There is a class PythonGrammar in it. But I don't know how to use it.



From news-and-lists at the-me.de  Thu Jun 26 11:19:43 2003
From: news-and-lists at the-me.de (Axel Bock)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:19:43 +0200
Subject: Reading a binary file
References: <mailman.1056614502.25759.python-list@python.org> <3EFAF999.2F77CACF@engcorp.com> <mailman.1056637113.19927.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.26.15.19.43.157037@the-me.de>

Am Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:14:58 +0200 schrieb Sorin Marti:

> This is what I have done. Now I have a file (called cpu1db2.dat) and
> this file has a length of 16 bytes.
> 
> Byte Number/Length   Type       Hex-Value
> ---------------------------------------------------------------- 
> [... content description ...]
> So I have written a python class which makes a connection to the
> [... lots of strange calculation ...]
> 10000101 = 133dec. Now you take away 127 from 133 then you get six,
> thats the exponent. The rest (110010000000000000000000) has a hex value
> of C80000 this is 13107200 decimal. Now you have to multiply 13107200
> with 2^6 and 2^-23 and you get (tataaaaaa!): 100!

whew. I don't get it, but anyways I think I can be useful ;-)

look at the struct-module: "This module performs conversions between
Python values and C structs represented as Python strings. It uses format
strings (explained below) as compact descriptions of the lay-out of the C
structs and the intended conversion to/from Python values. This can be
used in handling binary data stored in files or from network connections,
among other sources." (out of the python-doc).

learning by example: 

to convert a 4 byte integer you'd write: 
	"struct.unpack("=I",str_of_len_4)[0]"

= means native endian format - use the machine's endian format
I means unsigned int
str_of_len_4 has to be a binary string of length 4 containing the int
and the [0] at the end is neccessary cause unpack *always* returns a list,
even if only one value is converted (otherwise it'd be [2387], for example).
this is even stackable: 
	"struct.unpack("=IIH", str_of_len_10)[0]"
converts two unsigned ints, one unsigned short. great, huh? :-)

Hope this is what you need. your explanations seemed rather complicated to
me ;-)


greetings, 

		axel.




From swenggsri at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 20 15:57:44 2003
From: swenggsri at yahoo.com (Sriram Chadalavada)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 12:57:44 -0700
Subject: SAX API for Python Vs Pyxie
Message-ID: <f2800d70.0306201157.58f63d8a@posting.google.com>

Dear holders of Python-XML wisdom, 
As part of my project, I need to be able to convert an XML
representation into another XML form (that will form input to gnuplot)
.

This conversion needs to be performed by a python-based library. There
is a single such simple conversion.

>From what I just read in an O'Reilly book, SAX has some advantages
over DOM in that it consumes less memory and allows users to react to
errors in "real time", while parsing the document, rather than waiting
for the entire document to load.
I also found out about Pyxie. Some of the advantages that were listed:
1. Ability to support grep-like search features. 
2. Pipeline Processing : one application's output (in my case the
first XML format) is fed
as input for the next application which will spit out the
gnuplot-specific XML format...

Please let me know which of them (SAX - Python libraries (which one?))
or Pyxie would be more useful for the task at hand.

Python-XML newbie, 
Sriram C.



From TDSherer at go.com  Sun Jun  8 17:02:53 2003
From: TDSherer at go.com (Thyme)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 14:02:53 -0700
Subject: Python Tkinter question
Message-ID: <2747f65c.0306081302.4ccac40@posting.google.com>

I've hit a bump learning to use Tkinter. Nothing I've found on line
has helped me nail down the problem. Any insights would be welcome.

This is something very easy, actually - I'm trying to use the feature
a label is assigned a variable so that it can be automatically
updated. I followed the syntax I found in a Tkinter PDF on line and
another online doc I found.

Here is some code:

# File: testx.py
from Tkinter import *

con1 = StringVar("Quick Question!")

class App:
	def __init__(self, master):
		frame = Frame(master)
		frame.pack()
		self.label1 = Label(master, textvariable=con1)
		self.label1.pack()

root = Tk()
app = App(root)
root.mainloop()

When I run this, I get the following error:

C:\python\SizeOf>python testx.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "testx.py", line 4, in ?
    con1 = StringVar("Quick Question!")
  File "C:Python22\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 217, in __init__
    Variable.__init__(self, master)
  File "C:Python22\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 171, in __init__
    self._tk = master.tk
AttributeError: 'str' object has not attribute 'tk'
Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "StringVar instance has no
attribute '_tk'" in <bound method StringVar.__del__ of
<Tkinter.StringVar instance at 0x008B2D40>> ignored



From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Sun Jun  8 20:16:34 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 00:16:34 GMT
Subject: OT: GA recipe update
Message-ID: <bc0jl2$a2h$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

Hi.
For anyone who may have chosen to use my genetic algorithm code from
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/199121:
I would like to make you aware of the updated version, posted today. Changes
from the previous version include:
    - better integration of roulette selection into the GA framework
    - a bug fix for the previous roulette method
    - removal of dependencies on non-standard library modules (including
Numeric, and my utils module)
    - some re-naming of functions, methods, variables, and a little
re-factoring

The related examples (referenced in the recipe discussion) have been updated
to reflect the changes to this framework.

Thanks for your time,
Sean









From richardd at hmgcc.gov.uk  Wed Jun  4 03:25:27 2003
From: richardd at hmgcc.gov.uk (Richard)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:25:27 +0100
Subject: Passing data into my StreamRequestHandler?
References: <3edc96a6$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <3edd9ee8$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>

Hi,

Thanks to Andrew for providing a solution using Twisted, however can anyone
suggest a way of doign this without using Twisted?

Thanks

Richard






From drs at ecp.cc  Sat Jun 21 13:31:02 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:31:02 GMT
Subject: embedded db in python app?
References: <qRVIa.34337$Fr5.730650@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <qD0Ja.765$BM.602835@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Alessio Pace" <puccio_13 at yahoo.it> wrote in message
news:qRVIa.34337$Fr5.730650 at tornado.fastwebnet.it...
> Hi, I wrote a python application which needs to persistently store 2 *big*
> hash maps at the end of its execution and retrieve them when it starts
> again. Up to now I just used pickle to serialize 2 objects that
> "encapsulate" those hash maps (and nothing else). I wonder if using an
> embedded db (but which one??) to store those two hash maps would be faster
> both in storing and in retrieval.


if pickle as a concept is working, but it is just too slow, try cPickle
before changing the strategy too much.  If, however, that is not a good
strategy, then look in to ZODB.  Similar in concept to bsddb (I guess) but
way cooler for python apps.

http://www.amk.ca/zodb/

-d





From ed at membled.com  Sat Jun  7 17:19:35 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 07 Jun 2003 22:19:35 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:

>We already have closures, don't we?
>
>    >>> def f(x):
>    ...     def g(y):
>    ...         return x + y
>    ...     return g
>    ... 
>    >>> q = f(3)
>    >>> q(4)
>    7

Which Python version does this require?  (The machine to hand has only
1.5.2, although normally I use 2.2 or so.)

>Or do you want to be able to rebind names in outer scopes?

I mean things like

  def make_adder():
    x = 0
    def incr():
      x += 1
      return x
    return incr

  f = make_adder()
  g = make_adder()
  print f(), f(), g(), g() # 1 2 1 2

I do apologize for not testing this on the latest Python release, but
I will upgrade this machine from 1.5.2 soon so I can test my programs
before posting them to the newsgroup.

Anyway, it's my understanding from past discussions that there is only
one make_adder.x variable thoughout the whole program.  But I could be
horribly, horribly confused.

>Is anonymity really the point?  If so, it seems quite a minor one to
>me -- it's just not that big a deal to have to name a small function.

No, you're right, anonymity isn't really it; what I meant was the
style of passing around code references and particularly those that
can carry some scope with them.

>(Where are the complaints about having to name small classes?)

OTOH, think how awkward it would be if you had to name
small expressions:

    expr0 = f()
    expr1 = 55
    result = expr0 + expr1

instead of

    result = f() + 55

OK - defining functions, even in a heavily 'functional' style of
programming, happens much less often than creating expressions so the
tradeoffs are different.  Still, I find that lambda often makes code
more readable by letting you group related things together.

>Moreover, if the act of defining the function does not bind a name to
>it, you need to get a reference to it some other way.  The obvious
>thing to do is to have the function-defining text be an expression
>which evaluates to the function object (so you stick it in a list or
>whatever).  That in turn, as Python syntax is now, entails that it
>can only contain expressions.

Indeed.  I know that the current restrictions on lambda are
syntactic.  However, if the syntax were changed so that lambda could
contain any one-line construct, that might make it more useful and
less bizarre-seeming.

>But Lisp doesn't use indentation to delimit blocks, nor does it
>distinguish between statements and expressions, so the comparison is
>uninformative.

Just to be clear I wasn't advocating a big multiline lambda with a
whole indented block underneath it, which I admit would be too
complicated to work nicely into current expression syntax.

>Do you have a language in mind which is a better analogue to Python
>and could teach us more about these issues?

I'm afraid I can't think of any because Python is the only language I
know that treats assignment as binding a name to a (possibly
immutable) object rather than mutating the state of an existing
object.

So in C, a variable 'int x;' denotes an area of memory where an
integer sits, and you can do things to the integer like change its
value, increment it, and of course get the value.  Perl is also like
this except that the value could change from being an integer to a
string or some other type.  (Actually, you can rebind names in Perl
but that's not the normal programming style.)  In Python you can
rebind the name x to a different integer (= and +=) but there is no
way to modify the object pointed at except by calling methods on it -
and integers do not have a 'set' method.

Maybe Tcl is closer to Python since its 'set' appears to define names
rather than changing an existing value.  Tcl has a wacky 'upvar'
mechanism to access names defined in an enclosing scope.  But I think
this is dynamic scope - the caller's scope, not the scope defining the
called function - so I don't think it can be used to implement
closures.  But it would suprise me if Tcl didn't have _some_ way to do
full closures, you can warp the language to do almost anything.

>The main problem is syntactic; thus Terry's suggestion that you
>produce a grammar rule for your proposal.  (That means BNF, not an
>informal description such as "anything that can fit on a line".

How about

    lamda_form ::=
                "lambda" [parameter_list]: simple_stmt

As you know, simple_stmt is a statement that fits on one line.

>>What is strange is not so much the grammar rule for lambda itself, as
>>the dividing line between what is a statement and what an expression.
>
>Fwiw, I agree somewhat with this.  (It just doesn't bother me at all
>in practice.)

It didn't bother me at all (well, when first starting to learn the
language I wondered why 'print' had a different syntax to other calls,
and whether I could define my own procedures that could be called in
the same way) until I bumped into the lambda restrictions.  It looks
as though it is lambda that is particularly peculiar, even though in
fact it is just inheriting the statement/expression divide from other
parts of the language.  Elsewhere you don't have to care about the
difference, because any expression can be used as an expression_stmt.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From Kevin.Smith at sas.com  Tue Jun 10 08:25:13 2003
From: Kevin.Smith at sas.com (Kevin Smith)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 12:25:13 GMT
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
Message-ID: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>

I have received many comments on this proposal already and have taken 
them into account in this proposal.  The proposed syntax is still 
essentially the same, but more implementation details have been added 
and the document has been restructured somewhat for clarity.  There are 
still some legitimate concerns about using 'as' for the delimiter as it 
means something quite different in the import statement.  Suggestions 
for a new delimiter are welcome. 


Function/Method Decorator Syntax
--------------------------------

Abstract
    
    The current method for declaring class and static methods
    is awkward and can lead to code that is difficult to understand.
    This PEP introduces possible new syntax which will place the
    translation of instance methods to class/static methods at
    the same point in the code as the method's declaration. 


Motivation

    The current method of translating an instance method into a 
    class/static method places the actual translation at a different
    point in the code than the declaration of the method.  The 
    code below demonstrates this.

        def foo(self):
            perform method operation
        foo = classmethod(foo)

    When the method is very short, it is easy to look ahead and see
    that this is a class method.  However, if the method is more than
    15 lines or so, the translation into a class method is not 
    obvious.  A solution to this problem is to move the translation
    of the method to the same point as the method's declaration.
    The proposed syntax, shown in the example below, is discussed 
    in the following sections.

        def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
            perform method operation


Proposal

    Probably the simplest way to place the decorator that translates
    an instance method to a class/static method is illustrated in the
    code below.

        def classmethod foo(self):
            perform method operation 

    The code in this example will simply perform the following.

        def foo(self):
            perform method operation
        foo = classmethod(foo)
     
    This syntax does not introduce any new keywords and is completely
    backwards compatible with any existing code.  The word between the
    'def' and the actual name of the method is simply a reference to
    a callable object that returns a new function reference. 
    This syntax could also be extended to allow multiple function 
    decorators in the form of a space delimited list as follows:

       def protected classmethod foo(self):
           perform method operation 

    which would be equivalent to the current form:

       def foo(self):
           perform method operation
       foo = protected(classmethod(foo))

    While this syntax is simple and easy to read, it does become 
    cluttered and more obscure if you wish to allow arguments to be 
    sent to the function decorator.

        def synchronized(lock) classmethod foo(self):
            perform method operation 

    Instead of placing the decorators in front of the function name,
    a better place might be after it, as shown below.  The word 'as' is 
    added simply as a separator to assist in readability.  

        def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
            perform method operation

    This syntax is quite clear and could probably be interpreted 
    by those not familiar with Python.  The proposed syntax can be
    generalized as follows: 

        'def' NAME '(' PARAMETERS ')' ['as' DECORATORS] ':'

    where DECORATORS is a comma-separated list of expressions, 
    or a tuple.

    Other syntaxes have been proposed in comp.lang.python.  The 
    most common are demonstrated below.

        def foo(self) [synchronized(lock), classmethod]:
            perform method operation

        def foo(self) (synchronized(lock), classmethod):
            perform method operation

        def foo(self) {'pre': synchronized(lock), 'classmethod': True}:
            perform method operation

    These three forms use syntax that just seems arbitrary and which 
    does not help the user to comprehend the meaning of it.  In 
    addition, since the order in which the decorators are applied 
    may matter, the third, dictionary-style, syntax must be 
    eliminated.  

    
Implementation Issues

    In the following example there are two function decorators: 
    synchronized(lock) and classmethod.  

        def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
            perform method operation

    Since these all appear within the operation of the 'def' 
    itself, it makes sense that synchronized, lock, and 
    classmethod must exist at the time that the definition 
    is compiled.  In addition, each of these arguments will be 
    evaluated before being applied to the compiled function.  
    This means that arguments like synchronized(lock) must 
    return a descriptor that will be applied to foo.  Therefore, 
    the code above translates to:

        def foo(self):
            perform method operation
        foo = classmethod(<returned-descriptor>(foo))
    
    In the example above, <returned-descriptor> refers to the 
    descriptor returned by evaluating synchronized(lock).

    It could easily be argued that the descriptors should be applied
    in reverse order to make the application of the descriptor look 
    more like the resultant code.  I tend to prefer this form.

        def foo(self):
            perform method operation
        foo = <returned-descriptor>(classmethod(foo))

    In either case, the modified function is bound to the function
    name at compile time.


Possible Extensions

    The proposed syntax is general enough that it could be used 
    on class definitions as well as shown below.

        class foo(object) as classmodifier:
            class definition here

    However, there are no obvious parallels for use with other
    descriptors such as property().


Conclusion

    The current method of translating an instance method to a class
    or static method is awkward.  A new syntax for applying function
    decorators should be implemented (proposed syntax shown below).  

        def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
            perform method operation

    The proposed syntax is simple, powerful, easy to read, and 
    therefore preserves those qualities of the Python language.


Copyright

    This document has been placed in the public domain.


-- 
Kevin Smith
Kevin.Smith at sas.com



From pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl  Fri Jun 20 20:06:32 2003
From: pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl (Artur M. Piwko)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:06:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Weird 'and' result...
References: <slrnbf75q5.9t.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl> <3EF39E31.F8012BE4@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbf78c8.9t.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>

In the darkest hour on Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:52:17 -0400,
Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> screamed:
>> And it should be 'ee5ccea7'. Am I missing something?
> 
> I don't know the details, since the first value won't fit
> in an int, it's quietly making it a long, then treating the
> second value as "-1" and/or basically sign-extending it
> to an appropriate size to do the AND for you...
> 
> Change it to 0xffffffffL (note the L) and it works "better".
> 

Oh, so python converted my mask to the size of first number:
-1L == 0xffffffffffffffff. That's why it "didn't" work.
I have to change a little bit my C-ish thinking... (-;

Thanks

-- 
Before the Goat of Mendes... we all must take our turn   |  Artur M. Piwko
Into the magic circle... where still the fire burns      |  mailto:s/_/./
We're spinning round and round... until one takes a fall | -- Mercyful Fate
The fallen one will not return, the fallen one must burn | "Witches' Dance"



From ben at dadsetan.com  Fri Jun 20 10:57:03 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:57:03 +0100
Subject: sourceforge problems
References: <oP+b0PA97r8+Ew0C@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3EF320BF.8050309@dadsetan.com>

About sourceforge and their CVS access..

I have been having serious problems doing my first "python" checkout.
I do not know much about CVS but would it not be possible to make a 
"nightly CVS" build in parallel to the "nightly binary" builds, so that 
first time "downloaders" can download one tar ball and then just update 
with CVS instead of downloading every file for hours on sourceforge? I 
just somehow feel CVS is ill fitted mass downloads of thousands of files...

Or do I have someway to add the CVS information to the tar balled source 
code available with each release?

I am not sure whether I will be couragous enough to try it very often 
anymore (the checkout crashed already three times after hours of 
downloading) while I actually already had two-three python bugs I would 
have liked to look into and maybe solve...

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
Ben Dadsetan.

Robin Becker wrote:
> The text at
> http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=2352&group_id=1#cvs
> 
> seems to indicate that there may be up to a 24 hour delay in :pserver:
> access to cvs repositories. Whilst in no way decrying sf.net's
> contribution won't this have a bad effect on python (& many other
> projects) distribution?
> 
> There are thousands of projects hosted at sf.net and it seems it has
> become a single point of failure for open source. Is it a good idea. 




From Mike.Prager at noaa.gov  Thu Jun  5 18:14:34 2003
From: Mike.Prager at noaa.gov (Michael Prager)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 18:14:34 -0400
Subject: smtplib and SSL
References: <rj7qdv8ovhbgadaoenfi18hhelrlkaqgas@4ax.com> <mailman.1054681447.28648.python-list@python.org> <3mmqdv0afmoq1m04if4ejjpk2rpgmvl95q@4ax.com> <mailman.1054719126.23142.python-list@python.org> <vmgsdvccl9fuecok237c6dt3v1kigb408m@4ax.com> <4tnsdvs8voamobbpq0tf200hvsijn8tmcs@4ax.com> <mailman.1054761970.3905.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k2gvdvs3knlk57mahd0kr7kav5h8ip95to@4ax.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:

>Michael Prager wrote:
>> 
>> Authentication is now working perfectly, perhaps because I
>> updated from Python 2.2.2 to 2.2.3?
>
>Yep. Apparently your SMTP server only offered the LOGIN authentication 
>(which I added to smtplib and I fought to get it backported to 2.2-maint 
>a while ago). My guess is that we're talking about M$ Exchange here :->
>
>-- Gerhard

No, it happens to be a Netscape product.  Given that our
approved email client is Netscape 4.76, it is probably similarly
out of date.


-- 
Mike Prager
NOAA, Beaufort, NC
* Opinions expressed are personal and not represented otherwise.
* Any use of tradenames does not constitute a NOAA endorsement.



From m at moshez.org  Mon Jun 16 10:55:11 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 14:55:11 -0000
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <3EEDD203.54F5672B@engcorp.com>
References: <3EEDD203.54F5672B@engcorp.com>, <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <3EEDDA04.8000005@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <20030616145511.1904.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> To take up Alex' point: passing in the wrong type is probably much
> less common than, say, using the wrong value, or mixing up the order
> of arguments (and many functions take a bunch of arguments of the
> same type, so type-checking doesn't help there!).

And of course, every bug can be said to come from passing the wrong program
to the Python interpreter :)
[Remember, programs are data too!] 
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From ben at transversal.com  Tue Jun  3 05:11:20 2003
From: ben at transversal.com (ben at transversal.com)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 02:11:20 -0700
Subject: sandboxing python code
Message-ID: <fd3e3161.0306030111.39ea5ce6@posting.google.com>

Hi!

I've recently (6 months or so) been converted to Python, and so have
become an avid reader of this newgroup. One thing that has been brought up
occasionally by other people, but never has really been answered
satisfactorily is the problem of running untrusted code.

I have been interested in writing a web based program where some "clients"
would be able to enter code via a web interface which would then be
executed on the server machines. Obviously I don't trust this code, so I
want not only to be able to stop people from importing unwanted libraries,
but also from writing infinite loops or using up infinite memory. There
are a couple of ways I can think of doing this:

1. Have a pseudo language which I then can render doen to python before
running. But then whats the point of using python? I want to give them all
the power of python where allowed

2. Simply run the code using exec with restricted globals and locals
dictionaries. This can stop people importing dodgy libraries, but cannot
stop people writing infinite loops etc

3. Use the parser to generate the AST for the program, and then add checks
inside for loops etc which will cause the program to quit if a certain
counter reaches a maximum. This doesn't solve the memory problem either.

4. Use the c api to run the compiled bytecode a batch at a time, e.g run
for a 100 instructions and the check a condition, bailing out if it fails.
This still doesn't stop people doing something like range(100000000), and
also doesn't seem to have support in the api, so would entail effectively
writing my own python virtual machine.

Obviously there are also combinations of the above choices. What I want to
know is what experience other people have with this kind of thing, and
whether something is being worked on for a future version of python. I do
know about Zope, but it doesn't seem to do the full DoS stuff, and also
bring in a lot of other stuff with it.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Cheers!

Ben
---



From yvan_charpentier at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 17 21:12:58 2003
From: yvan_charpentier at hotmail.com (yvan)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 18:12:58 -0700
Subject: mxODBC, DriverConnect() but not on default DB?
Message-ID: <9ee55987.0306171712.18afca69@posting.google.com>

Here is my set up:
The MSSQL server is sets permission for the user USER with a default
access to the db DEFAULT_DB.
I have another db OTHER_DB. And USER has full rights on everything.
 
self.db = DB.Connect("Test", USER, PW)
---> Connects to the correct DB, but i don't want to have to define
the DSN file, so i want to use DriverConnect

self.db = DB.DriverConnect('DRIVER={SQL
Server};SERVER=server;DB_NAME=OTHER_DB;UID=USER;PWD=PW;')
---> Connects, but to DEFAULT_DB!
 
Shouldn't DB_NAME=OTHER_DB override the default?
How do i use DriverConnect() to connect on a DB which is not the
default one?

Thanks for any help,
 
-Yvan



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Sun Jun  8 22:37:06 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 08 Jun 2003 22:37:06 -0400
Subject: Playing MIDI without a sound card! :-)
Message-ID: <oqbrx89dt9.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

Hi, people.

A long while ago, for a special project, users asked me to implement a MIDI
file writer while I had no sound card to check if it worked.  For debugging
it nevertheless, I wrote a kludge program in C that was relying on the Linux
console beeper, multiplexing it between simultaneous voices.

To take a rest today, I rewrote that old toy in Python.  One comment says:

    # The musical ear is not tolerant at all to frequency errors, yet it
    # strangely makes some sense with music despite wide errors in duration,
    # at least given that the overall beat organisation is respected.  This
    # is the idea behind this console beep player, admittedly a toy! :-) It
    # nevertheless could be used to debug MIDI scores without a sound card.

This unfinished program is meant to have other uses eventually, but the
console beeper seemingly works enough today to be usable on many MIDI files.
Just email me for a copy, if you feel like having fun for a few minutes,
over some of your `.mid' files.  (Made using SuSE 8.0 and Python 2.2.1.)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Thu Jun 19 11:06:22 2003
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 08:06:22 -0700
Subject: Importing/exporting Excel VB modules
References: <d3c9c04.0306190106.79af7c3e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0306190706.610819c1@posting.google.com>

cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter) wrote in message news:<d3c9c04.0306190106.79af7c3e at posting.google.com>...
> I have the excellent win32com python module. What I'm trying to do is
> import and export VBA modules into Excel programmatically.
> 
> Does anyone know how to enumerate the modules?
> 
> From within the VBA editor I tried:
>   x = ThisWorkbook.Modules.Count
> but it came up with the number 0 (which isn't correct).

Actually, I think I've sorted this out. Something like this will do (in VBA):

Public Sub ExportModules()
    
    Dim wb As Workbook
    Set wb = ThisWorkbook
    Dim VBComp 'As codemodule
    Dim D As String
    Dim N
    
    
    D = ThisWorkbook.Path
    For Each VBComp In wb.VBProject.VBComponents
        If (VBComp.Type = 1) Then 'standard module
            N = D + "\" + VBComp.Name + ".bas"
            VBComp.Export N
        End If
    Next
    'Set VBComp = wb.VBProject.VBComponents("modModules")
    'VBComp.Export pt + "\modModules.bas"
    
End Sub

It's not actually in python - but I think that a port is easy enough.



From jacek.generowicz at cern.ch  Tue Jun 17 11:08:22 2003
From: jacek.generowicz at cern.ch (Jacek Generowicz)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 17:08:22 +0200
Subject: feature request: mul
References: <2259b0e2.0306110833.24b998cd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tyfk7bkrbbt.fsf@pcepsft001.cern.ch>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:

> import operator
> multi_and=lambda it: reduce(operator.mul,it)
> if multi_and(condition):
>    dosomething()
> 
> but frankly it is too ugly for my taste. Having
> 'sum' and 'mul' the use cases for 'reduce' would
> drop, which I think is a good thing.

You don't like abstraction ?



From daemon at osc.edu  Thu Jun 26 12:24:53 2003
From: daemon at osc.edu (daemon at osc.edu)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:24:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Movie
In-Reply-To: <200306261624.h5QGOqg29591@osc.edu>
References: <200306261624.h5QGOqg29591@osc.edu>
Message-ID: <200306261624.h5QGOrD29595@osc.edu>

  oscpost is longer a maintained service
  of the Ohio Supercomputer Center (OSC).

  This service has been moved to a World Wide Web based system
  which can be accessed off of our main web site, http://www.osc.edu/

  If you have any questions about this or any email matter,
  please send a message to:  postmaster at osc.edu or webmaster at osc.edu






From ngps at netmemetic.com  Thu Jun  5 01:45:50 2003
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 05:45:50 GMT
Subject: using urllib or httplib to post with ENCTYPE=mulitpart/form-data
References: <mailman.1054758548.9033.python-list@python.org> <87he751jla.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1054782491.12301.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbmlee$kk6$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Kevin Carlson  <khcarlso at bellsouth.net>:
> I actually only need to send a couple of text inputs to the form, but no 
> matter what, the host system acts like I input nothing into the form.  I 
> have tried this:

Maybe the form has some Javascript that validates the data and invokes a
secret handshake, like sending extra hidden fields or returning a cookie?


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun 18 16:45:34 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:45:34 -0500
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-B149A1.13274618062003@news.service.uci.edu>
References: <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6@posting.google.com>
        <eppstein-0047EB.09403118062003@news.service.uci.edu>
        <3EF0AAFB.DDA5F555@engcorp.com>
        <eppstein-1DFD94.11562718062003@news.service.uci.edu>
        <3v3Ia.109349$pR3.2389728@news1.tin.it>
        <eppstein-B149A1.13274618062003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <16112.53102.408440.129703@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    David> It's tempting to use "not L[0]" instead (since what I want is an
    David> object that's not equal to L[0]) but that fails when L is empty.

How about "not L[0:1]"?  Since L is a sequence (right?), "not L[0:1]" will
be True if L is empty and False otherwise.

Skip




From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Jun  6 09:51:41 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:51:41 -0500 
Subject: Loop over list of pairs
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304FE75BD@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: SISMEX01 
> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 3:59 PM
> 
> > From: Alexander Schmolck [mailto:a.schmolck at gmx.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 3:58 PM
> > 
> > Thomas G?ttler <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> writes:
> > 
> > > Hi!
> > > 
> > > What is the prefered way of loop over
> > > a list like this?
> > >  mylist=[1, "one", 2, "two", 3, "three"]
> > 
> > you could use this:
> > 
> > def xgroup(iter,n=2):
> >     """
> >     >>> list(xgroup(range(9), 3))
> >     [(0, 1, 2), (3, 4, 5), (6, 7, 8)]
> >     """
> >     last = []
> >     for elt in iter:
> >         last.append(elt)
> >         if len(last) == n: yield tuple(last); last = []
> >
> 
> Since 'n' is known from the start you don't need to
> test against it, nor build a list piecemeal.  Something
> like this seems a bit more solid:
> 
> def xgroup(Iterable, group=2):
>    """Return a groupwise iterator for Iterable."""
>    Iterator = iter(Iterable)
>    Length = range(group)
>    while 1:
>       yield [ Iterator.next() for i in xrange(group) ]
> 
> hth!
> 
> -gca
>

Yuck!  Sorry for replying to my own post, darn untested code.
Please remove "Length = ..." from the previous, as it's
superfluous.

-gca

--

Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From lazypointer at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 12 12:16:39 2003
From: lazypointer at yahoo.com (Byron Morgan)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:16:39 GMT
Subject: Sockets and threads
References: <C0BFa.597$n46.42261599@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com> <3EE6FEE7.8CFF39B5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <HH1Ga.1854$7w4.577@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>

"Alan Kennedy" <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3EE6FEE7.8CFF39B5 at hotmail.com...
> Byron Morgan wrote:
>
> > If I monitor a socket connection or even jsust listen to a socket in a
> > thread, Python's cpu usage expands to use all available processor time.
>
> Hmm, this sounds like something is wrong, for sure.
>
> A few questions that would be helpful if you could answer:
>
> 1. How many threads are you creating? At what stage of connection
processing?
> 2. How many of those threads are 'listen'ing for socket connections?
> 3. If you answered "more than 1" for question 2, that's a problem.
> 4. When you receive a new connection, do you create a new thread, or pass
> control to an existing thread?
> 5. Does each thread do blocking or non-blocking reads on the socket?
>
> If you can answer those, it should hopefully become plainly clear what is
going
> wrong.
>
> -- 
> alan kennedy
> -----------------------------------------------------
> check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
> email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan
Alan Kennedy asks,

> 1. How many threads are you creating? At what stage of connection
processing?
> 2. How many of those threads are 'listen'ing for socket connections?
> 3. If you answered "more than 1" for question 2, that's a problem.
> 4. When you receive a new connection, do you create a new thread, or pass
> control to an existing thread?
> 5. Does each thread do blocking or non-blocking reads on the socket?


Alan,

1. This happens with just a single thread (plus the main thread). But what I
need to do is run sockets with several threads, and I can do it just fine,
except that Python hogs the machine resources if I do.
2. I have had the same effect with just one thread listening for a
connection.
3. Why do you say more than 1 would be a problem?
4. Haven't gone further than just listening.
5. I have only used blocking style reads, but I do use timeout values.

Here are two code samples - sample 1 runs very politely, using minmal cpu.
Sample 2 causes the cpu usage meter to max out to 100% unless there is a
sleep
cycle in main(), in which case cpu usage looks very much like sample 1
(but I need for my apps to do stuff, not spend the day sleeping).

Byron Morgan
-------------------------------------
# tnet1.py
# monitor a telnet stream without threading
from telnetlib import Telnet
import msvcrt
host = 'localhost'
port = '12345'
session = Telnet()
session.open(host,port)

while not msvcrt.kbhit():
    txt = session.read_until('\n',.5)
    #seems to make no difference whether a timeout value is used or not.
    if txt.strip() is not '':
        print txt.strip()

session.close()
# --------- end of sample 1

#tnet2.py
# monitor a telnet stream in a thread
from telnetlib import Telnet
from time import *
import msvcrt
import threading

host = 'localhost'
port = '12345'
session = Telnet()
session.open(host,port)

# subclass of threading.thread taken from W.Chun's Core Python.
class MyThread(threading.Thread):
 def __init__(self, func, args, name = ''):
  threading.Thread.__init__(self)
  self.name = name
  self.func = func
  self.args = args

 def getResult(self):
  return self.res

 def run(self):
  print 'starting', self.name, 'at:', \
     ctime(time())
  self.res = apply(self.func, self.args)
  print self.name, 'finished at:', ctime(time())

def telnetreader():
    while 1:
        txt = session.read_until('\n',.5)
        if txt.strip() is not '':
            print txt.strip()

telgo = MyThread(telnetreader,(),telnetreader.__name__)
telgo.setDaemon('daemonic')
telgo.start()

def main():
    while not msvcrt.kbhit():
        pass
        #sleep(5)
        #uncomment sleep statement and cpu usage returns to normal.
    session.close()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()
#---------- end of sample 2 -----------





From usenet at soraia.com  Thu Jun  5 18:00:13 2003
From: usenet at soraia.com (Joe Francia)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 22:00:13 GMT
Subject: Newbie: How do you enable python scripts in apache server?
In-Reply-To: <bbnrti$dlr$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl>
References: <3EDF5EC6.6050704@sci.kun.nl> <bbnogq$bb9ut$1@fu-berlin.de> <bbnrti$dlr$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <3EDFBD9E.4070700@soraia.com>

Husam wrote:

>>This seems not so much a python issue then a apache-configuration issue.
> 
> Indeed, I tried to look for apache configuration on google but couldn't find
> any thing usable.
> 
> 
>>ScriptAlias /url_for_scriptdir "/scriptdir"
> 
> I will try this one.
> 

Oddly enough, http://httpd.apache.org/ has some very good information 
about configuring Apache. ;)

Add this line in the relevant section of your httpd.conf (I have it in 
the IfModule mod_mime.c part):

AddHandler cgi-script .py

And if you put the .py files in a directory that's not the CGI 
directory, you'll need to set Options ExecCGI for the dir.  I do it with 
.htaccess files, but you can also do it in the httpd.conf.

jf




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun  4 07:32:50 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:32:50 +0200
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
In-Reply-To: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com>
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030604113249.GA11919@nl.linux.org>

Pupppy Wizzard schreef op woensdag  4 juni om 12:01:48 +0000:
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++, comp.lang.smalltalk, comp.lang.python,
> 	rec.woodworking, comp.lang.c

What does woodworking have to do with languages?

> Hi. I am an old school programmer looking to modernize my skill set. I
> want to focus on one new language. Should I choose:

> VB
> VB.net
> C#
> C++
> Python
> Smalltalk
> J#
> JScript.net
> or Java?

You should definetely choose Python. What other response do you expect
from c.l.python newsgroup?

A good second choice would be Ruby (comp.lang.ruby, www.ruby-lang.org):
each Rubyist will advice those two in exactly the opposite priority :)

VB is Evil, C++ is extremely complex and JScript is not a complete language.
Java isn't fun and Smalltalk isn't practical. Don't know about C# and J#.
Note that I have all this from second hand, I myself only know Python. 4.5
years ago, I asked a similar question and got Python as an answer.

I am very happy with it. 

yours,
Gerrit.
-- 
263. If he kill the cattle or sheep that were given to him, he shall
compensate the owner with cattle for cattle and sheep for sheep.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Wed Jun 18 22:16:26 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:16:26 GMT
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <mailman.1055908712.5410.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns939F2B7493EF7JanC@213.119.4.94>

"Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)" <tdelaney at avaya.com> schreef:

> There is a growing view (not necessarily correct - IANAL) that the GPL
> is actually an explicit waiver of copyright due to the requirement to
> distribute the source when the binary is distributed. 

Publishing/distributing something doesn't remove your copyright on it, 
quite the contrary.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From mflatt at cs.utah.edu  Mon Jun  2 12:50:27 2003
From: mflatt at cs.utah.edu (Matthew Flatt)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:50:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: 2003 Scheme Workshop - Call for Papers
Message-ID: <bbfv8j$bcv$1@wolfberry.srv.cs.cmu.edu>

.                    2003 Scheme Workshop
                      Friday, November 7
                     Boston, Massachusetts

          co-located with the Lightweight Languages Workshop


                 -----  CALL FOR PAPERS  -----


The purpose of the 2003 Scheme Workshop is to discuss experience with
and future developments of the Scheme programming language ---
including the future of Scheme standardization --- as well as general
aspects of computer science loosely centered on the general theme of
Scheme.

Papers are invited concerning all aspects of the design, semantics,
theory, application, implementation, and teaching of Scheme. Some
example areas include (but are not limited to):

- Theory
    Formal semantics, correctness of analyses and transformations, 
    lambda calculus.

- Design critiques
     Limitations of the language, future directions.

- Linguistic extensions
     Scheme's simple syntactic framework and minimal static semantics
     has historically made the language an attractive "lab bench" for
     the development and experimentation of novel language features
     and mechanisms.

     Topics in this area include modules systems, exceptions, control
     mechanisms, distributed programming, concurrency and
     synchronisation, macro systems, and objects.

- Type systems
     Static analyses for dynamic type systems, type systems that
     bridge the gap between static and dynamic types, static systems
     with "type dynamic" extensions, weak typing.

- Implementation
     Compilers, optimisation, virtual machines, resource management,
     interpreters, foreign-function interfaces, partial evaluation,
     and generally implementations with novel or noteworthy features.

- Program-development environments
     The Lisp and Scheme family of programming languages have
     traditionally been the source of innovative program-development
     environments. Authors working on these issues are encouraged to
     submit papers describing their technologies.

- Education
     Scheme has achieved widespread use as a tool for teaching
     computer science.  Papers on the theory and practice of teaching
     with Scheme are invited.

- Applications and experience
     Interesting applications which illuminate aspects of Scheme;
     experience with Scheme in commercial or real-world contexts; use
     of Scheme as an extension or scripting language.

- Scheme pearls
     Elegant, instructive examples of functional programming.

     A " Scheme pearl" submission is a special category, and should be
     a short paper presenting an algorithm, idea or programming device
     using Scheme in a way that is particularly elegant.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Proceedings
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The proceedings of the conference will be published as a University of
Utah School of Computing technical report.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Important dates
------------------------------------------------------------------------

  1 August, 2003    - Submission deadline (end of the day, UTC)

  5 September, 2003 - Notification of acceptance or rejection

 17 October, 2003   - Final paper due

  7 November, 2003  - Workshop

------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Submission guidelines
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Authors should submit a 100-200 word abstract and a full paper by the
end of Friday, 1 August Universal Coordinated Time. (The end of the
day UTC corresponds to 8:00 PM EDT, 6:00 PM MDT, and 5:00 PM PDT.)

Submissions will be carried out electronically via the Web, at

      http://scheme2003.flux.utah.edu/

Papers must be submitted in PDF format, or as PostScript documents
that are interpretable by Ghostscript, and they must be printable on
US Letter sized paper. Individuals for which this requirement is a
hardship should contact the workshop chair at least one week before
the deadline.

There are two classes of submissions, regular papers and short papers:

- Regular papers

  Submissions should be no more than 12 pages (including bibliography
  and appendices) in standard ACM conference format: two columns, nine
  point font on ten point baseline, page 20pc (3.33in) wide and 54pc
  (9in) tall with a column gutter of 2pc (0.33in). Authors wishing to
  supply additional material to the reviewers beyond the 12 page limit
  can do so in clearly marked appendices, on the understanding that
  reviewers are not required to read the appendices. Submissions that
  do not meet these guidelines will not be considered. Suitable style
  files for Latex, Word, and Word Perfect can be found on the
  submission Web site.

  Submitted papers must have content that has not previously been
  published in other conferences or refereed venues, and simultaneous
  submission to other conferences or refereed venues is
  unacceptable. Each paper should explain its contributions in both
  general and technical terms, clearly identifying what has been
  accomplished, saying why it is significant, and comparing it with
  previous work. Authors should strive to make the technical content
  of their papers understandable to a broad audience.

- Short papers

  Short papers need not present novel research; it is sufficient that
  they present material of interest or utility to the Scheme or
  functional-programming community. "Scheme pearls" submissions
  should be presented as short papers.

  Short papers should be formatted with the same guidelines as regular
  papers, but are expected to be typically around six pages in length.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Organizers
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Workshop chair:

    Matthew Flatt
    School of Computing
    University of Utah
    Salt Lake City, UT 84112
    +1 801 587 9091
    mflatt at cs.utah.edu

Program committee:

    Robert Bruce Findler (University of Chicago)
    Erick Gallesio (University of Nice)
    Tim Hickey (Brandeis University)
    Mario Latendresse (FNMOC)
    Jeffrey Mark Siskind (Purdue University)
    Mitchell Wand (Northeastern University)

Steering committee:

    William D. Clinger (Northeastern University)
    Marc Feeley (University of Montreal)
    Matthias Felleisen (Northeastern University)
    Matthew Flatt (University of Utah)
    Dan Friedman (Indiana University)
    Christian Queinnec (University Paris 6)
    Manuel Serrano (INRIA)
    Mitchell Wand (Northeastern University)




From jtauber at jtauber.com  Sun Jun 22 00:36:21 2003
From: jtauber at jtauber.com (James Tauber)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:36:21 +0800
Subject: GUI interactive prompt with non-text output
In-Reply-To: <000201c337e1$234130b0$a300a8c0@emilio>
References: <000201c337e1$234130b0$a300a8c0@emilio>
Message-ID: <20030622043621.DF728365C6@www.fastmail.fm>

On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:37:33 +1000, "Tim Churches"
<tchur at optushome.com.au> said:
> James Tauber wrote:
> > Is anyone aware of extensions to a GUI interactive prompt (such as
> that
> > in IDLE) where the statements executed might be able to produce a
> > graphical output after the input prompt as well as text (as you would
> get
> > if you did a "print").
[...]

> Have a look at PyCrust - see http://www.orbtech.com/www/PyManual.html
> Or if want a higher level interface to wxPython, try PythonCard (see
> http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/) - see Figure 5 of the turtle example
> at http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/samples/turtle.html - is that what
> you had in mind?

It would if the pentagon had actually been drawn on the shell canvas
immediately below the input that produced it.

I'm thinking of something that would support the following (but with
nicely drawn graphics rather than the ASCII art):

>>> draw_square(side=100)

    +-----+
    |     |
    |     |
    +-----+

>>> integrate("3x", "x")

         2
       3x
       --- + C
        2

>>> draw_bar_graph([3,5,2])

   |   #  
   |   #
   | # #
   | # # #
   | # # #
   +-------

>>>

and so on...

The best examples I've seen so far are
  http://www.wolfram.com/products/mathematica/tour/page2.html
and
  http://www.xmlterm.com



 
-- 
  James Tauber
  http://jtauber.com/




From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Sun Jun 15 23:10:55 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:10:55 -0700
Subject: Python articles
References: <mailman.1055704587.15481.python-list@python.org> <nrkpevsm7psg011fvqs0qjh6uj2jjbmjph@4ax.com> <mailman.1055710166.1953.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcjcde$k17un$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>

Cliff Wells wrote:

> On Sun, 2003-06-15 at 13:15, John Hall wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:13:19 -0300, Gustavo Niemeyer
>> <niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >[1] https://moin.conectiva.com.br/GustavoNiemeyer
>> 
>> Your website is about 2 meters wide, but my monitor only about
>> 300mm, so reading it is rather inconvenient.
>> (IE V6 on Windows 2000 Pro)
> 
> Looks fine on Galeon and Mozilla.  Probably IE's borken CSS
> implementation.
> 

Also looks good with Opera on Linux.

  - Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Mon Jun  9 14:56:49 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 12:56:49 -0600
Subject: signal handling oddity
In-Reply-To: <20030609150013.10541.qmail@green.zadka.com>
References: <20030609143702.B03B326F67@www.fastmail.fm>, <20030609134716.915163335D@www.fastmail.fm>, <Tr9za.228673$pa5.224690@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <3H9za.47086$h42.8645@twister.nyc.rr.com> <Bmbza.211$Iq.22242517@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <d116fbae.0306090531.5d0fd55a@posting.google.com> <20030609142215.9399.qmail@green.zadka.com> <20030609150013.10541.qmail@green.zadka.com>
Message-ID: <20030609185649.7FDD134AA2@www.fastmail.fm>

I overrode render as follows...  I know the self.send_response stuff is
wrong, and I'll have to replace it with something equivalent from
twisted.  My render method is getting called, but the authorization
header never appears, I believe because the server never challenges the
request, thus asking for username/password???  Do you know what needs to
be done to make this happen?

I appreciate your help.

	def render(self, request):
		headers = request.headers
		if headers.has_key("authorization"):
			print "has authorization key:", a["authorization"]
			real_auth = '%s:%s' % (config.adminUser, config.adminPassword)
			auth = a["authorization"]
			auth = auth.replace("Basic ","")
			decoded_auth = decodestring(auth)
			if not decoded_auth == real_auth:
				print "not authorized"
				self.send_response(401)
				self.end_headers()
			else:
				return xmlrpc.XMLRPC.render(self, request)
		else:
			return xmlrpc.XMLRPC.render(self, request)




On 9 Jun 2003 15:00:13 -0000, "Moshe Zadka" <m at moshez.org> said:
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2003, "Justin Johnson" <justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> 
> > Yeah, I was using twisted before for this server and it did handle
> > control-c correctly.  I was having problems getting authentication to
> > work though, so I ended up moving to SimpleXMLRPCServer and adding some
> > other code to get basic authentication to work.  I'm just not familiar
> > enough with twisted to know what to subclass/override, etc... to get
> > simple user/password authentication to work.
> 
> Well, probably in the render() method of your resource, you do
> the checking of request.headers (there's no problem doing it
> manually), and if they're ok you call the parent's render()
> and otherwise you return a 401.
> -- 
> Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
> Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
> Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with
> shortness.
> Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From alf at fayauffre.org  Thu Jun 19 11:32:12 2003
From: alf at fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:32:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: XML parser: fast/slow?
References: <3ef1d480.1238136453@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <slrnbf3lrs.h5.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>

Dans l'article <3ef1d480.1238136453 at news.skynet.be>, Henk a ?crit :
 
> But I wonder wether there are modules/packages out there which use a
> C-implementation of the parsing which could speed up things
> significantly. Any ideas/suggestions?

If you don't mind having a few compliance problems, you may want to give
a look at cDomlette in 4suite (http://www.4suite.org/)

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations



From achrist at easystreet.com  Mon Jun 16 03:39:38 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 00:39:38 -0700
Subject: Installer Problem WinNT to Win 98 
Message-ID: <3EED743A.FF0D41A2@easystreet.com>

Some months ago I posted aquery about how an installer-generated
exe would run fine business on NT and crash on Win 98.  Tonight
I had opportunity to track down the cause:

    The library routine getpass.getuser() doesn't work on Win 98.

This works fine on NT, but raises an exception on Win 98, which
the program must catch and plug in a bogus user name, I guess. 

Anyone have a good list of such pitfalls between Windows versions?


Al



From tr at jotsite.com  Fri Jun  6 10:28:54 2003
From: tr at jotsite.com (Hoang Do)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 07:28:54 -0700
Subject: Add methods to a class dynamically
Message-ID: <64fb4467.0306060628.2c51bf09@posting.google.com>

I am having trouble invoking the created method.  The function addition goes
fine but invoking it gives an error.  Here is some simple code:
---------------------------------------------------------
class DynObj:
    def __init__(self):
        self.methods = ("a", "b", "c")
        for method in self.methods:
           self. __generateMethod(method)
    def __generateMethod(self, methodName):
        code = "def %s(self):\n\tprint %s\n" % (methodName, methodName)
        exec code in globals(), self.__dict__

if __name__ == "__main__":
    x = DynObj()
    print dir(x)
    x.a(x)
---------------------------------------------------------
The Error:
NameError: global name 'a' is not defined
---------------------------------------------------------
Methods "a", "b", and "c" are callable and in DynObj's __dict__.  However, I
can't seem to call it.

Calling for help from anyone familiar with Python's introspective features?



From theller at python.net  Wed Jun  4 12:17:09 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 18:17:09 +0200
Subject: Calling function in shared lib
References: <bbkuh7$2an$1@esaoa1.esoc.esa.de>
Message-ID: <vfvlx1fe.fsf@python.net>

Olaf Wasmuth <owasmuth at web.de> writes:

> I am trying to write python code that is able to invoke
> a function that was compiled into a shared library
> (actually, FORTRAN routines).  I did succeed for a specific
> routine in a specific library, but now I want to do this
> in a more flexible way.
> 
> That is, given the library path and the "signature" of the
> routine (e.g. from a configuration file) at run time, I
> would like to call this function from within Python. My
> target platform is Unix (Solaris), so I'm thinking of
> using the GNU libltdl to access the library and do the
> call. But how can I feed the parameters into it ? Did
> anybody do this already, or do you have some pointers
> for me ?

Sounds almost like ctypes:
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/
although I've never heard it runs on Solaris.

But I'll gladly accept patches!

Thomas



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sat Jun 28 09:26:55 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 07:26:55 -0600
Subject: Re/Unresolved bug?
In-Reply-To: <001c01c33d4d$453a9870$6401a8c0@boxen>; from sabu@pure-elite.org on Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 04:14:17AM -0400
References: <001c01c33d4d$453a9870$6401a8c0@boxen>
Message-ID: <20030628072655.A379@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Xavier:
  [...]
> t:163: SyntaxWarning: name 'VERBOSE' is assigned to before global
> declaration
>   def main():
> (no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging
> symbols found)...
> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
> 0x0807f022 in PyErr_NormalizeException ()
  [...in 2.2.3 it dies with no segfault by no exception message either...]

Could you post a minimal example of code which provokes this
behaviour?

Without seeing code, I speculate irresponsibly: the SyntaxWarning
is unrelated to the segfault; the segfault might be due to
PyErr_NormalizeException somehow being called when no exception
has been set.  (The bug fix in Python/errors.c revision 2.77 (part
of 2.3b1, backported to 2.2.3 in revision 2.66.10.2) seems
relevant.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"What I find most baffling about that song is that it was not a hit."
                                          -- Tony Dylan Davis (CKUA)




From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Fri Jun  6 15:50:13 2003
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:50:13 +0200
Subject: Self-guided instruction docs for Python
References: <bbqjp0$cfiqk$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bbqr97$8qc$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

"Dave Kuhlman" <dkuhlman at rexx.com> schreef in bericht
news:bbqjp0$cfiqk$1 at ID-139865.news.dfncis.de...
> I've been at work developing several classes for Python.
>
> The first (Python 101) is an introductory course in Python
> programming.  The second (Python 201, you probably guessed)
> discusses several slightly advanced topics which have Python
> solutions.
>
> As preparation for these training courses I've written several
> training documents.  When I started, they were intended as an
> outline or syllabus for the course.  As time went on, they grew as
> I filled in more notes and details.
>
> Now, I believe, these training documents are usable stand-alone.
> In part I'm announcing this in the hope that these documents can
> be used for self-guided learning.
>
> You can find these documents at:
>
>     http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/#training
>
> It's still a "work in progress", but I believe there is plenty
> there now to make it useful.
<...snip...>

I just scanned both trainings. It looks impressive!

regards Gerrit
--
www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/






From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Jun  6 23:07:21 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 23:07:21 -0400
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <Fu6dnQErc5p3y3yjXTWcoQ@comcast.com>

"Ed Avis" <ed at membled.com> wrote in message
news:l1isrikctv.fsf at budvar.future-i.net...
> I don't have my copy of 'Learning Python' to hand, but I don't
recall
> any strong emphasis on statements versus expressions in that or
other
> learner-oriented texts.  The distinction between the two is
something
> that you don't need to worry about, to Python's credit.

Assignment statement: target = expression.  If one does not know what
expressions are (and are not), then one cannot reliably write correct
assignments.

TJR





From DavidA at ActiveState.com  Wed Jun 25 16:40:34 2003
From: DavidA at ActiveState.com (David Ascher)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:40:34 -0700
Subject: OSCON Lightning Talk Proposals still being accepted
Message-ID: <3EFA08C2.8050703@ActiveState.com>

If you're going to OSCON (http://conferences.oreillynet.com/os2003/) and 
want to give a very
short presentation about something Python-related, send me an email.  
Please put the word
"lightning" in the subject line.  The lightning talk session is 
scheduled for Thursday, from 4:30 till 6:00.

We're still accepting proposals, so send one in today!  I'll probably be 
accepting proposals
until late in the game, except if the slot fills up.

If you've never heard of lightning talks, you can find out more 
information at:
    http://perl.plover.com/lt/osc2003/lightning-talks.html

But ignore the submission informations on that site, just send me email.

See you in Portland,

-- David Ascher






From junk at geekabytes.net  Mon Jun  9 10:20:39 2003
From: junk at geekabytes.net (Nielson Family)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:20:39 -0600
Subject: Prolog-style unification?
In-Reply-To: <3ee30682$0$69421$e4fe514c@dreader9.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <HlmEa.107$Hw.137249@news2.news.adelphia.net> <mailman.1055018594.20123.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.06.08.02.28.12.52487@webone.com.au> <3ee30682$0$69421$e4fe514c@dreader9.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3EE497B7.50002@geekabytes.net>

Ype,

See comments  inline:

Ype Kingma wrote:

>>Calling Father this way could make it difficult to use it
>>in multiple places in a single clause. An iterator per occurence
>>seems just right, although I have to say that it
>>is decades ago that I used Prolog...
>>
I'm not sure what you mean by this.  Could you elaborate?

>>
>>Some questions:
>>Is logic.Fact the good class for the backtracking needed?
>>
The short answer is 'yes', the long answer is 'its complicated'.  I'll 
post code in a week or two and you can see what's going on for yourself.

>>Do you use 'yield' for backtracking?
>>
No.  But maybe I should.  I'm still working out the most efficient way 
to do backtracking.  If you know any very efficient backtracking 
algorithms, please let me know.

Thank you for your feedback,

-- Seth





From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Jun  5 07:15:36 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:15:36 +0200
Subject: Singleton class: what is the purpose?
Message-ID: <20030605111536.GA3436@nl.linux.org>

Hi,

Guido's article on unifying types and classes mentions singleton classes.
It says:

"""
As another example of __new__, here's a
way to implement the singleton pattern.
"""
(http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html)

What is a singleton class? What is the purpose of a singleton class?

On the web, I have found that a singleton class allows only one instance.
Is that correct? If so, it should be easily implementable with:

 20 >>> class Singleton(object):
 20 ...  instances = []
 20 ...  def __init__(self):
 20 ...   if len(self.__class__.instances) == 0:
 20 ...    self.__class__.instances.append(self)
 20 ...   else:
 20 ...    raise Exception("No way jose!")
 20 ... # to do it correct, I think getrefcount would me neccesary
 53 >>> Singleton()
<__main__.Singleton object at 0x403afe4c>
 54 >>> Singleton()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 7, in __init__
Exception: No way jose!
 55 >>> del Singleton.instances[0] # delete the last reference to the object
 56 >>> Singleton()
<__main__.Singleton object at 0x403affac>

But what is the purpose of a Singleton class?

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
203. If a free-born man strike the body of another free-born man or
equal rank, he shall pay one gold mina.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From just at xs4all.nl  Sun Jun  8 12:23:16 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 18:23:16 +0200
Subject: cPickle.load() question
References: <mailman.1055086642.5723.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-5A1894.18231608062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.1055086642.5723.python-list at python.org>,
 Dan Jones <djones at shcorp.com> wrote:

> [ ... ] and generate pdf invoices for them (haven't gotten that 
> far yet, any pdf module recommendations? [ ... ]

  http://www.reportlab.com

Just



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 19 15:53:26 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:53:26 -0700
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bct498$mnjrt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

| ...
| (B) I am wanting to sort words (or is that strings ?)
| into a list from a clipboard and/or file input and/or....
|
| (C) To sort out the list of "unique" words/strings.
| ...

John ...

Since maybe I helped to steer you toward Python,
maybe I can help to keep you interested ...

I came up with a version that ....

    o splits lines into word lists as suggested

    o sorts them using Erik's lambda expression

    o eliminates duplicates using a two-pass mechanism
      where the sorted duplicates file output from 1st pass
      is read in to eliminate duplicates in a 2nd pass
      using a simple test relying on the fact
      that the input list has been previously sorted ...

http://fastq.com/~sckitching/Python/word_list.zip
[ 2 KB ]

    Contains ...

        [ program | source_file | dups_file | target_file ]

The file names are hard-coded in the program,
but should be easy to edit or change to arguments ...

The dups_file could be deleted when finished with it
at run-time from the program if desired ...

The only source_file input that I tested it on
is an edited version of the one you posted here,
so the testing is limited ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  9 12:08:12 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 17:08:12 +0100
Subject: cut off \n
References: <3EE4ACCD.70000@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3EE4B0EC.43C882D6@hotmail.com>

Tom,

Try this

>>>s = "This is a line with a newline at the end\n"
>>>s.strip()
"This is a line with a newline at the end"
>>>t = "This is a line without a newline at the end"
>>>t.strip()
"This is a line without a newline at the end"

More info about .strip() and the related functions .lstrip() and .rstrip() can
be found here

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-string.html

As well as the ".strip" function in the string module, each string instance
supports the .strip() method as well, as can be seen above.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Wed Jun 18 02:52:28 2003
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:52:28 -0600
Subject: ANNOUNCE: JOTWeb 1.11, preview of new web application system.
In-Reply-To: <1055884182.1169.11.camel@emilio>
References: <20030617162210.GB5896@tummy.com> <1055884182.1169.11.camel@emilio>
Message-ID: <20030618065228.GA23419@tummy.com>

On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 07:09:42AM +1000, Tim Churches wrote:
>Just out of interest, what didn't you like about Albatross (
>http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/ )? Superficially at
>least, Albatross seems to look a lot like JotWEB, in its templating

I didn't like that, at least as far as the documentation indicates to
me, Albatross web pages have this context that has to be set up and
maintained for each of the pages.  There's a fairly similar set of 10
lines of code that need to be set up for each page that you want to be
dynamic.

For example, in JOTWeb to display a page with the current time in it,
you would have a "code.py" file that contains:

   def currenttime():
      import time
      return(time.strftime('%H:%M:%S'))

And call that from an HTML file using:

   The current time is: <span tal:replace="code/currenttime"></span>

As a comparison, it seems to be that this code in Albatross would be a
python module containing:

   #!/usr/bin/python
   import os
   from albatross import SimpleContext

   ctx = SimpleContext('.')
   templ = ctx.load_template('time.html')

   import time
   ctx.locals.currenttime = time.strftime('%H:%M:%S')

   templ.to_html(ctx)

   print 'Content-Type: text/html'
   print
   ctx.flush_content()

Then the HTML of:

   The current time is: <al-value expr="currentime">

It just seems like you have to cut and paste a lot of code in Albatross
for every page you want to display.  But it's not just cut and paste,
because you have to customize some parts of it (while leaving other
parts alone).  JOTWeb tends to do a lot of that sort of stuff for you
behind the scenes so that you don't have to think about them.

Sean
-- 
 The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com, ltd. - Linux Consulting since 1995.  Qmail, Python, SysAdmin
      Back off man. I'm a scientist.   http://HackingSociety.org/




From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jun 11 21:50:42 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 18:50:42 -0700
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com> <38ec68a6.0306051955.98a3dff@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054919354.7921.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0306111750.73ac4e67@posting.google.com>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1054919354.7921.python-list at python.org>...
> Quoth Asun Friere:
>   [...]
> > >>>sys.ps1 = '? '; sys.ps2 = '= ' #for those reading news on the web
> 
> Why would those reading news on the web need such a substitution?

My apologies, I should have been more specific in my commenting!  I
read news on Google Groups and (I confess without having looked into
it) it appears that the '>>>' fools the renderer into thinking this a
quoted comment which seems to strip our the following newline.  Eg.
when someone writes:
>>>foo
None
It is displayed as:
>>>foo None
which can be a little bit annoying to read.  Nothing more than that.



From markus_wankus at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 21 16:03:43 2003
From: markus_wankus at hotmail.com (Markus Wankus)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:03:43 -0400
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org> <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com> <slrnbf8tsd.qc.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <m3r85nmoch.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <oprq4vchz88cxiwf@news1.on.sympatico.ca>

On 21 Jun 2003 17:39:42 +0200, Martin v. L?wis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

> Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> writes:
>
> [In response to Alan Kennedy claiming that HTML is the most widely
> used [electronic] document format in human history?]
>> It isn't.  That award would go to 7-bit ASCII plain text.
>>
>> Facetious?  No.
>
> Do you have numbers to prove that? Looking at my disk:
>
> martin at mira:~> locate .html|wc
> 41104   41104 2425699
> martin at mira:~> locate .txt|wc
> 7958    7963  389013
>
> So I do have way more .html files than .txt files. I haven't counted
> source code files, here, obviously, but I'm not sure whether those
> would qualify as '7-bit ASCII plain text'.
>

LOL.  I think the point was - your .html files are 7-bit ASCII plain 
text....

--
Markus



From jhaveri at usc.edu  Sat Jun 28 22:28:51 2003
From: jhaveri at usc.edu (jinal jhaveri)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 19:28:51 -0700
Subject: Python Import Statement
Message-ID: <908e32905cc6.905cc6908e32@usc.edu>

Hi I have two files
say

a.py

b.py


a.py has 3 classes

A
B
C

Now in b.py I want to instantiate an object of class B

so this is what I do in file b

from xyz.A import B    (xyz is the directory where A is lying and the
paths are set accordingly)

but it gives me an error of the kind, object cannot be called?

Any hints 

thank you
J.






From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jun 13 14:13:23 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:13:23 -0400
Subject: long-term release schedule?
References: <mailman.1054692908.26987.python-list@python.org>
	 	<5654fff9.0306112203.6aa1ef99@posting.google.com>
	 	<3EE874F2.4042B9E4@engcorp.com>
	 	<5654fff9.0306121621.136c8568@posting.google.com>
	 	<3EE93161.1DD519B@engcorp.com>
	 	<5654fff9.0306130043.5e8e641a@posting.google.com>
	 <a8b7f07a.0306130833.37909bf9@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055523144.7319.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EEA1443.C24E742@engcorp.com>

emf wrote:
> 
> As far as the notion of Python becoming unsupported, uh... I think you
> would have to have a nuclear war.

And how would that prevent Python from continuing to be supported?

;-)

-Peter



From goboborz at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 19 16:01:38 2003
From: goboborz at yahoo.com (Gobo Borz)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:01:38 -0500
Subject: cgi getlist() problem (my first python program)
References: <3EF1CFC0.2010803@yahoo.com> <3EF1DA5E.AC6C4F68@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3EF216A2.8040508@yahoo.com>

Thanks Alan - I appreciate your spending the time to give a complete and 
helpful answer !

Being new to Python, it was good to learn this wasn't an oversight in 
the Python cgi module. I determined I can work around the problem by 
using the clumsy method of inserting a placeholder character in each 
blank field on the client side with javascript.  This should work unless 
the browser mangles the order of the fields.

 >Once any value is placed in a form field, even
 > invisible whitespace, it should then be considered a "successful
 > control"

You're right, I was reading the output wrong.


 > One way to approach the problem is by numbering the fields in your
 > HTML form, like so
 >
 > <form>
 >   <td>
 >     <input name="name1">
 >     <input name="phone1">
 >   </td>
 >   <td>
 >     <input name="name2">
 >     <input name="phone2">
 >   </td>
 > </form>

I didn't want to use this approach because I thought I would have to use 
eval() or something like that on the server side to build the field name 
during iteration. Maybe there's an easier way in Python to iterate 
through a list of names like this, but I didn't find any examples when I 
looked in the manual and searched google.  Hopefully it's just being new 
to the language. If anyone knows how to do this I would be very grateful 
if you would share it with me, as my solution of using placeholders is ugly.


Again, I really appreciate the help!  -Gobo

--------------------------------------------------------------
Alan Kennedy wrote:
> Gobo Borz wrote:
> 
> 
>>This is my first Python program, and I'm having problems with  cgi
>>getlist() skipping values in a multi-row html form.
> 
> 
>>When I use getlist() to
>>get the field values, it skips empty fields. Thus, phone[4], for
>>example, may  turn out to be in a different row than name[4],
>>depending on which fields the user has left blank.
> 
> 
> This is as it should be, according to the HTML 4.01 spec.
> 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#submit-format
> 
> The relevant section is "17.13.2 Successful Controls", which says
> 
> "A successful control is "valid" for submission. Every successful
> control has its control name paired with its current value as part of
> the submitted form data set. A successful control must be defined
> within a FORM element and must have a control name."
> 
> and later in the same section
> 
> "If a control doesn't have a current value when the form is submitted,
> user agents are not required to treat it as a successful control"
> 
> So different behaviour is to be expected from different browsers. You
> should test submitting your form from different browsers.
> 
> 
>>Even if I force a space in the field with javascript on the client
>>side, the python FOR loop skips the blank values. 
> 
> 
> Hmm, this is odd. 
> 
> Once any value is placed in a form field, even
> invisible whitespace, it should then be considered a "successful
> control". Are you sure that your javascript is working here? One
> way to test is to see what happens in your CGI script when you 
> *manually* enter a space into what would otherwise be empty fields.
> 
> When you do this, does it behave in the same way as when you fill the
> empty fields from javascript?
> 
> 
>>I hope I'm not missing something obvious. It seems like this would
>>be a common problem for anyone coding a multi-row html form.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, there is no way for the cgi module to know how many
> name=value pairs are *supposed* to be in a list of field values: the
> browser is only obliged to transmit fields that are "successful".
> 
> One way to approach the problem is by numbering the fields in your
> HTML form, like so
> 
> <form>
>   <td>
>     <input name="name1">
>     <input name="phone1">
>   </td>
>   <td>
>     <input name="name2">
>     <input name="phone2">
>   </td>
> </form>
> 
> Should be easy enough to do if you're generating your form from the cgi
> script itself. If you're using a static form, just add the numbers in
> by hand.
> 
> 
>>Thanks for your help,
> 
> 
> If none of this helps, and you need to post again, it is always
> helpful to post snippets of code from your script. That way people can
> test your code by running it as well as just looking at it. But do try
> to reduce the problem to its minimal representation (the process of
> which often helps you to solve the problem :-)
> 
> HTH,
> 
> --
> alan kennedy
> -----------------------------------------------------
> check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
> email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan




From m at moshez.org  Mon Jun  2 10:01:33 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 14:01:33 -0000
Subject: twisted UDP port and REUSEADDR
In-Reply-To: <bbfivq$29ch$1@news.vol.cz>
References: <bbfivq$29ch$1@news.vol.cz>
Message-ID: <20030602140133.13929.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, "Jaroslav Jakl" <j.jakl at era.cz> wrote:

> I have more different processes listening on the same UDP port.

You really shouldn't
Also, Twisted-specific questions are better asked on the Twisted
mailing list.
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From achrist at easystreet.com  Mon Jun 16 12:25:55 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:25:55 -0700
Subject: Saving Files Under Windows
References: <mailman.1055758139.3258.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EEDEF93.1629EB53@easystreet.com>

Tim Golden wrote:
> 
> In fact, there is a lot to be known about MS Windows in its various
>  incarnations that isn't known by the casual user, and not even by
>  the administrators in some cases. As a rule, direct access to the
>  registry is not the best way to read/write system info (unless of
>  course there is no other), not least because it changes so damned
>  often: what looked like a stable lookup in Win98 suddenly isn't >  there
>  when you get to Win2k.
> Functions like SHGetSpecialFolderPath, available via the shell module
>  in win32all will get pretty much anything you like of the [My > Documents]
>  variety, regardless of the environment, changes of location, use of
>  domain etc. At least, I've used them across a mixed Win2k / Win9x
>  setup with no problems at all.
> 
> Examples:
> 
> from win32com import storagecon
> from win32com.shell import shell, shellcon
> 
> def desktop (common=0):
>   return shell.SHGetSpecialFolderPath (0, (shellcon.CSIDL_DESKTOP,
> shellcon.CSIDL_COMMON_DESKTOPDIRECTORY)[common])
> 
> def application_data (common=0):
>   return shell.SHGetSpecialFolderPath (0, (shellcon.CSIDL_APPDATA,
> shellcon.CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA)[common])
> 
> def personal_folder ():
>   return shell.SHGetSpecialFolderPath (0, shellcon.CSIDL_PERSONAL)
> my_documents = personal_folder
> 

This looks to be exactly what I need, if I can get it to work ...

Are these not portable to WinNT?  On NT 4.0 SP6,  I get:

>>> from win32com import storagecon
>>> from win32com.shell import shell, shellcon

>>> shell.SHGetSpecialFolderPath (0, (shellcon.CSIDL_DESKTOP,
... shellcon.CSIDL_COMMON_DESKTOPDIRECTORY)[0])
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
pywintypes.com_error: (-2147467263, 'Not implemented', None, None)

>>> shell.SHGetSpecialFolderPath (0, (shellcon.CSIDL_APPDATA,
... shellcon.CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA)[0])
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
pywintypes.com_error: (-2147467263, 'Not implemented', None, None)


Al



From phoenixathell at gmx.de  Thu Jun 12 13:26:45 2003
From: phoenixathell at gmx.de (Phoenix@Hell)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 10:26:45 -0700
Subject: Documentation & UML Question
Message-ID: <a35b36be.0306120926.bdb9873@posting.google.com>

Hi,

did someone know a very good tool for generating API references from
python sources and a tool for UML code generation for python ?

Thx



From dahqlvist at sundsvall.mail.telia.com  Fri Jun  6 09:40:10 2003
From: dahqlvist at sundsvall.mail.telia.com (Anders Dahlqvist)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:40:10 GMT
Subject: (newbie)cgi-problem --sorry, wrong file
References: <LG0Ea.10468$mU6.14411@newsb.telia.net>
Message-ID: <_Q0Ea.13642$dP1.26345@newsc.telia.net>

Here's the correct one, the other one was an old backup and wouldn't have
worked for obvious reasons. Apologies.

#!/usr/bin/env python

#Borde fungera med
http://loke/cgi-bin/python/funktioner.py?titel=Inskick&typ=inskick 
#men g?r det inte
#F?rsta g?ngen n?got inte fungerar som t?nkt i python!

import os,time,cgi,cgitb
from data import *

cgitb.enable()


def htmlstart(titel):
        print  htmlhuvud % (titel, titel, time.strftime("%F %X",time.localtime()))

def htmlstop():
        print htmlslut




def tabell(typ):
        if typ in lista0:
                tabellhuvud="<TABLE BORDER=1><TR><TH>databas</TH><TH>url</TH></TR>"
                html=os.popen("mysql --host=loke --user=apache arbeten --exec='select
databas,url from rekrytering where %s=1'" % typ).readlines() 
        elif typ in lista1:
                tabellhuvud="<TABLE
BORDER=1><TR><TH>databas</TH><TH>url</TH><TH>email</TH></TR>"
                html=os.popen("mysql --host=loke --user=apache arbeten --exec='select
databas,url,email from rekrytering where %s=1'" % typ).readlines()
        print tabellhuvud
        #Skapa en ny lista, inneh?llande listor med  varje rad i en egen lista
        lista=[]
        for rad in html:
                resrad=rad.replace('\n','')
                nyrad=resrad.split("\t")
                lista.append(nyrad)

        
        if typ in lista0:
                for underlista in lista[1:-1]:#F?rsta raden ing?r i tabellhuvud
                        print "<TR><TD>%s</TD><TD><A HREF='%s'>%s</A></TD></TR>" %
(underlista[0],underlista[1],underlista[1])
        elif typ in lista1:
                for underlista in lista[1:-1]:
                        print "<TR><TD>%s</TD><TD><A HREF='%s'>%s</A></TD><TD><A
HREF='mailto:%s'>%s</A></Td></TR>" %
(underlista[0],underlista[1],underlista[1],underlista[2],underlista[2])
        print tabellslut

if __name__=='__main__': 
        htmlstart(titel) #Allts? om programmet anropas med parametrar enligt ovan
        tabell(typ)
        htmlstop()




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun 11 12:29:21 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:29:21 -0600
Subject: PEP-317
In-Reply-To: <1055312155.157424@yasure>; from donn@drizzle.com on Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 06:16:06AM -0000
References: <1055255402.3ee5eb6ae09ee@mcherm.com> <bc551q$mie$1@main.gmane.org> <mailman.1055297660.22329.python-list@python.org> <1055312155.157424@yasure>
Message-ID: <20030611102921.B1157@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Donn Cave:
> Quoth Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net>:
> ...
> | So - 3.0 too early?  Ok.  Tell us what you think a reasonable
> | schedule might look like.  Constructive feedback, that would be.
> 
> "Never" would be a reasonable schedule, hope that's constructive.

Nice to hear so simply and directly, anyway.  If the benefit is
widely felt to be so small, certainly the PEP should be (as it has
been) rejected, whatever schedule it were to propose.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I tried to be pleasant and accommodating, but my head
 began to hurt from his banality."   -- _Seven_ (1996)




From mcherm at mcherm.com  Thu Jun  5 15:09:25 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Thu,  5 Jun 2003 12:09:25 -0700
Subject: Yield inside try...finally
Message-ID: <1054840165.3edf956561d32@mcherm.com>

Alan Kennedy writes:
> The real problem here is the fact that try..finally has been actively
> disabled inside generators, 

Jeremy writes:
> I wonder if he's considered relaxing that restriction to allow at most
> *one* try: finally: block, [...]
> He could then just compile the finally code
> into an __del__ method on the generator-iterator.

Won't work. In particular, __del__ may not be called at any known
time. In cPython, it's normally (whenever cycles don't occur) called
as soon as the last reference is released, but in, for instance,
Jython it won't be called until the java VM gets around to it. There's
no ironclad guarantee of its being called ever. And the same problem
exists in cPython for objects that participate in reference cycles.
Too bad, that, but it can't easily be avoided.

-- Michael Chermside





From woooee at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 14 00:31:41 2003
From: woooee at yahoo.com (Curly Joe)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 21:31:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why does python execute line bye line as im coding?????????
Message-ID: <20030614043141.26024.qmail@web20506.mail.yahoo.com>

Try:

name = raw_input( "What's your name? " )
print "hello", name


im just going through the python for beginrers
tutorial and all was cool untill
i stated trying to do thing s like
input = name("whats your name")
print "hello "name

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Thu Jun 26 23:20:30 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 13:10:30 +0950
Subject: List of lists
References: <ekNKa.66745$Io.6262503@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <slrnbfn9oe.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <MFOKa.66866$Io.6273817@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <slrnbfneqt.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <slrnbfnf5e.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 27 Jun 2003 13:04:53 +0950, Ben Finney wrote:
>     >>> for (question, answer) in get_questions():
>         print question, answer

Dang, messed up the indentation when I pasted.  This has the correct
indentation:

    >>> for (question, answer) in get_questions():
            print question, answer

    What colour is a clear daytime sky? blue
    What is the answer to the ultimate question? 42
    What is a three-letter word for mouse trap? cat

-- 
 \         "If life deals you lemons, why not go kill someone with the |
  `\  lemons (maybe by shoving them down his throat)."  -- Jack Handey |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Jun 10 02:43:45 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 08:43:45 +0200
Subject: Octets calculation?
References: <65eFa.634621$Si4.577158@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <m33ciijuu6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Tyreal" <webmaster at stratastuff.com> writes:

> I was reading over the POP3 RFC (RFC 1939) and it states that
> message sizes must be in octets, but that it's different in bytes in
> that they are nonambigious (ie. bytes vary from platform to
> platform).  So is there a way to get octets from a file?

Python only supports platforms where a byte is an octet. So when you
read from a file in Python, you get octets.

Regards,
Martin




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  9 02:18:30 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 00:18:30 -0600
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
Message-ID: <20030609001830.A1089@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

PEP: 317
Title: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
Version: $Revision: 1.2 $
Last-Modified: $Date: 2003/06/09 04:43:39 $
Author: Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net>
Status: Draft
Type: Standards Track
Content-Type: text/x-rst
Created: 06-May-2003
Python-Version: 2.4
Post-History: 09-Jun-2003


Abstract
========

    "For clarity in new code, the form ``raise class(argument, ...)``
    is recommended (i.e. make an explicit call to the constructor)."

    -- Guido van Rossum, in 1997 [1]_

This PEP proposes the formal deprecation and eventual elimination of
forms of the ``raise`` statement which implicitly instantiate an
exception.  For example, statements such as ::

    raise HullBreachError
    raise KitchenError, 'all out of baked beans'

must under this proposal be replaced with their synonyms ::

    raise HullBreachError()
    raise KitchenError('all out of baked beans')

Note that these latter statements are already legal, and that this PEP
does not change their meaning.

Eliminating these forms of ``raise`` makes it impossible to use string
exceptions; accordingly, this PEP also proposes the formal deprecation
and eventual elimination of string exceptions.

Adoption of this proposal breaks backwards compatibility.  Under the
proposed implementation schedule, Python 2.4 will introduce warnings
about uses of ``raise`` which will eventually become incorrect, and
Python 3.0 will eliminate them entirely.  (It is assumed that this
transition period -- 2.4 to 3.0 -- will be at least one year long, to
comply with the guidelines of PEP 5 [2]_.)


Motivation
==========

String Exceptions
-----------------

It is assumed that removing string exceptions will be uncontroversial,
since it has been intended since at least Python 1.5, when the
standard exception types were changed to classes [1]_.

For the record: string exceptions should be removed because the
presence of two kinds of exception complicates the language without
any compensation.  Instance exceptions are superior because, for
example,

* the class-instance relationship more naturally expresses the
  relationship between the exception type and value,

* they can be organized naturally using superclass-subclass
  relationships, and

* they can encapsulate error-reporting behaviour (for example).


Implicit Instantiation
----------------------

Guido's 1997 essay [1]_ on changing the standard exceptions into
classes makes clear why ``raise`` can instantiate implicitly:

    "The raise statement has been extended to allow raising a class
    exception without explicit instantiation. The following forms,
    called the "compatibility forms" of the raise statement [...]  The
    motivation for introducing the compatibility forms was to allow
    backward compatibility with old code that raised a standard
    exception."

For example, it was desired that pre-1.5 code which used string
exception syntax such as ::

    raise TypeError, 'not an int'

would work both on versions of Python in which ``TypeError`` was a
string, and on versions in which it was a class.

When no such consideration obtains -- that is, when the desired
exception type is not a string in any version of the software which
the code must support -- there is no good reason to instantiate
implicitly, and it is clearer not to.  For example:

1. In the code ::

       try:
           raise MyError, raised
       except MyError, caught:
           pass

   the syntactic parallel between the ``raise`` and ``except``
   statements strongly suggests that ``raised`` and ``caught`` refer
   to the same object.  For string exceptions this actually is the
   case, but for instance exceptions it is not.

2. When instantiation is implicit, it is not obvious when it occurs,
   for example, whether it occurs when the exception is raised or when
   it is caught.  Since it actually happens at the ``raise``, the code
   should say so.

   (Note that at the level of the C API, an exception can be "raised"
   and "caught" without being instantiated; this is used as an
   optimization by, for example, ``PyIter_Next``.  But in Python, no
   such optimization is or should be available.)

3. An implicitly instantiating ``raise`` statement with no arguments,
   such as ::

       raise MyError

   simply does not do what it says: it does not raise the named
   object.

4. The equivalence of ::

       raise MyError
       raise MyError()

   conflates classes and instances, creating a possible source of
   confusion for beginners.  (Moreover, it is not clear that the
   interpreter could distinguish between a new-style class and an
   instance of such a class, so implicit instantiation may be an
   obstacle to any future plan to let exceptions be new-style
   objects.)

In short, implicit instantiation has no advantages other than
backwards compatibility, and so should be phased out along with what
it exists to ensure compatibility with, namely, string exceptions.


Specification
=============

The syntax of ``raise_stmt`` [3]_ is to be changed from ::

    raise_stmt ::= "raise" [expression ["," expression ["," expression]]]

to ::

    raise_stmt ::= "raise" [expression ["," expression]]

If no expressions are present, the ``raise`` statement behaves as it
does presently: it re-raises the last exception that was active in the
current scope, and if no exception has been active in the current
scope, a ``TypeError`` is raised indicating that this is the problem.

Otherwise, the first expression is evaluated, producing the *raised
object*.  Then the second expression is evaluated, if present,
producing the *substituted traceback*.  If no second expression is
present, the substituted traceback is ``None``.

The raised object must be an instance.  The class of the instance is
the exception type, and the instance itself is the exception value.
If the raised object is not an instance -- for example, if it is a
class or string -- a ``TypeError`` is raised.

If the substituted traceback is not ``None``, it must be a traceback
object, and it is substituted instead of the current location as the
place where the exception occurred.  If it is neither a traceback
object nor ``None``, a ``TypeError`` is raised.


Backwards Compatibility
=======================

Migration Plan
--------------

Future Statement
''''''''''''''''

Under the future statement [4]_ ::

    from __future__ import raise_with_two_args

the syntax and semantics of the ``raise`` statement will be as
described above.  This future feature is to appear in Python 2.4; its
effect is to become standard in Python 3.0.

As the examples below illustrate, this future statement is only needed
for code which uses the substituted traceback argument to ``raise``;
simple exception raising does not require it.


Warnings
''''''''

Three new warnings [5]_, all of category ``DeprecationWarning``, are
to be issued to point out uses of ``raise`` which will become
incorrect under the proposed changes.

The first warning is issued when a ``raise`` statement is executed in
which the first expression evaluates to a string.  The message for
this warning is::

    raising strings will be impossible in the future

The second warning is issued when a ``raise`` statement is executed in
which the first expression evaluates to a class.  The message for this
warning is::

    raising classes will be impossible in the future

The third warning is issued when a ``raise`` statement with three
expressions is compiled.  (Not, note, when it is executed; this is
important because the ``SyntaxError`` which this warning presages will
occur at compile-time.)  The message for this warning is::

    raising with three arguments will be impossible in the future

These warnings are to appear in Python 2.4, and disappear in Python
3.0, when the conditions which cause them are simply errors.


Examples
--------

Code Using Implicit Instantiation
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Code such as ::

    class MyError(Exception):
        pass

    raise MyError, 'spam'

will issue a warning when the ``raise`` statement is executed.  The
``raise`` statement should be changed to instantiate explicitly::

    raise MyError('spam')


Code Using String Exceptions
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Code such as ::

    MyError = 'spam'
    raise MyError, 'eggs'

will issue a warning when the ``raise`` statement is executed.  The
exception type should be changed to a class::

    class MyError(Exception):
        pass

and, as in the previous example, the ``raise`` statement should be
changed to instantiate explicitly ::

    raise MyError('eggs')


Code Supplying a Traceback Object
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Code such as ::

    raise MyError, 'spam', mytraceback

will issue a warning when compiled.  The statement should be changed
to ::

    raise MyError('spam'), mytraceback

and the future statement ::

    from __future__ import raise_with_two_args

should be added at the top of the module.  Note that adding this
future statement also turns the other two warnings into errors, so the
changes described in the previous examples must also be applied.

The special case ::

    raise sys.exc_type, sys.exc_info, sys.exc_traceback

(which is intended to re-raise a previous exception) should be changed
simply to ::

    raise


A Failure of the Plan
'''''''''''''''''''''

It may occur that a ``raise`` statement which raises a string or
implicitly instantiates is not executed in production or testing
during the phase-in period for this PEP.  In that case, it will not
issue any warnings, but will instead suddenly fail one day in Python
3.0 or a subsequent version.  (The failure is that the wrong exception
gets raised, namely a ``TypeError`` complaining about the arguments to
``raise``, instead of the exception intended.)

Such cases can be made rarer by prolonging the phase-in period; they
cannot be made impossible short of issuing at compile-time a warning
for every ``raise`` statement.


References
==========

.. [1] "Standard Exception Classes in Python 1.5", Guido van Rossum.
       http://www.python.org/doc/essays/stdexceptions.html

.. [2] "Guidelines for Language Evolution", Paul Prescod.
       http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0005.html

.. [3] "Python Language Reference", Guido van Rossum.
       http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/raise.html

.. [4] PEP 236 "Back to the __future__", Tim Peters.
       http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0236.html

.. [5] PEP 230 "Warning Framework", Guido van Rossum.
       http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0230.html


Copyright
=========

This document has been placed in the public domain.



..
   Local Variables:
   mode: indented-text
   indent-tabs-mode: nil
   sentence-end-double-space: t
   fill-column: 70
   End:




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun 17 12:11:16 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:11:16 -0600
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <HGMnCw.5tM@arl.mil>; from bcorfman@amsaa.army.mil on Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 01:16:18PM +0000
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3EEDEDBE.BCB56D6E@engcorp.com> <HGMnCw.5tM@arl.mil>
Message-ID: <20030617101116.B716@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Brandon Corfman:
> 1) Why can't this issue be solved by making Python like Lisp/Dylan in 
> this regard? Make type declarations/range limitations on variables an 
> optional thing. Flexibility if you need it, safety later if you're 
> concerned about it.

This was discussed in the now-defunct types-sig, if memory serves.
    <http://www.python.org/sigs/types-sig/>
I've never looked into it, but I imagine the archived discussions
there might shed some light on why this hasn't been done.

> 2) It also seems that the Python community wastes too much time on these 
> explanations. A better answer (in my mind) would be to say that the 
> Python environment is designed to make the development process far 
> different than in a statically-typed language like C++.

That seems like a good answer (though I don't think it replaces
the other explanations in the thread so much as it augments or
summarizes them).

As for us wasting our time with these explanations, well, the
usual solution (such as it is) would be to write up a FAQ entry
and direct future querents to it.  Would you like to write one?

  [...]
> of these combine to make Python a development environment that 
> encourages functional programming _and all development should be done 
> this way_. [...]

(I don't think "functional programming" means what you think it
means.  Functional programming is programming without
side-effects.)

  [...]
> I think the problem is that a C++/Java programmer regards the Python 
> command prompt as little more than a calculator or a place to type 
> "prog.main()". I know I did at first.

Good observation!  I made that mistake too.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
Every public frenzy produces legislation purporting to address it.
                                                  (Kinsley's Law)




From rnd at onego.ru  Sat Jun 21 00:55:05 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 08:55:05 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <3EF37A2E.AC8D9314@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306210837360.3313-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Alan Kennedy wrote:

>Roman Suzi wrote:
>
>> I have a feeling that XML steadily moves out of buzz-word set into
>> usual life. But along with this I have a feeling that XML is not as
>> useful as it was presented during it's hype period. I myself have
>> not found any use for it. There is always something more practical
>> than XML.
>
>I think that there are some important areas where XML can, does and will
>continue to make an impact, apart from the obvious usability in data
>interchange.
>
>One example is the portability of technical knowledge that comes about
>for people who use markup. Take javascript: 

Good point, but it is not directly related to what I am doing.

>Of course the point remains that XML is hugely resource inefficient for
>many problems. But maybe in 5 years we'll have so many terahertz and
>gigabytes 

Well, when XML was entering the arena, it promised to _lessen_
the burden on telecommunications... Where is that claim now?

And one more point: processing of XML is much less
reliable than that of ASCII or even simple Python literals.
The reliablity is what worries me more. It's too easy to get into some
trap (I remember talks here or in XML-SIG when it was discussed
what is better None or "" for representing namespace).

>and megabits-per-sec that we won't care. Just this week, I was

>On the python side, I believe that, although javascript is custom
>designed for manipulating markup data structures, python is the best
>natural fit for such data structures. Python's combined simplicity and
>power in manipulating sets, sequences and mappings makes it a very
>natural fit for XML (and indeed general data) processing. I wouldn't be
>surprised if Python, or something very close to it, shows up as a
>compulsory subject for school kids sometime in the next ten years. And
>of course, python was what cured me from my irrational desire to
>represent everything in XML %-)

So far all arguments pro-XML in this thread are like "XML is good because X, M
and L are already here" (be it SGML, javascript, Java, developers expertise or
whatever). But I wonder if there are pure technical merits of XML itself apart
from it being involved. XML is not well-based scientifically (like RDBMS), and
I have not seen any usability tests about it. It is just a simpler sibling of
SGML (and SGML is monstrous). Have you ever seen Fortran or Cobol? I can't
imaging subsetting them will make good programming language...

So, my understanding of XML is that it is like CSV format for a relational 
DBMS table:

XML for ? is like CSV for a RDBMS

However, I have no idea what the question stands for...

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From gus.tabares at verizon.net  Mon Jun 16 22:26:11 2003
From: gus.tabares at verizon.net (Gus Tabares)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:26:11 -0400
Subject: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions? (os.chmod() not   working properly?)
In-Reply-To: <3EEE79A2.59B574C@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <LFEJJJNJEBIGPEPEPLIPEEIGCAAA.gus.tabares@verizon.net>

Yeah I guess I see your point. I have and do use 666 quite often. I guess
adding a 0 wouldn't really hurt...

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Peter Hansen
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 10:15 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions?
(os.chmod() not working properly?)


Gus Tabares wrote:
>
> Peter,
>         os.chmod(file, 666) seems to work quite proficiently. It might
> be possible that it is converted (as that is easy to do).

Possible, but unlikely, I think.  Note that o666 and d666 share
the bits 10010010, which quite possibly includes the bits necessary
to cause Windows to make a file read-write...

Are you really willing to throw parameters at a low-level OS function
which "seem" to work, or would you rather avoid, say, accidentally
clearing the archive bit, or accidentally setting the HIDDEN bit? ;-)

-Peter
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Jun  5 02:07:29 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:07:29 GMT
Subject: girl scout badge
References: <eb5e40b2.0306042028.635442d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <B6BDa.10308$b8.1824@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

"sam420" <WEBEXPERTS4 at YAHOO.COM> wrote in message
news:eb5e40b2.0306042028.635442d6 at posting.google.com...
> I'd like a simple python program to help organize my girl scout badge
> info. I want a GUI interface that would have different button for each
> badge, i.e., if I hit the communication button, the communication
> requirements would pop up. Or if I hit the weather badge button, the
> requirements for the weather badge would pop up. I'd like to start
> with 6 badges. I'll type the requirements in the data (?) file, but
> you would have to create the actual file and show me where to type the
> requirements in. Can anyone help? I am a newbie =)

The best way to start is to get your data file working before attempting
to build a GUI.  The shelve module is well suited to your needs because
it connects a keyword (like the name of the merit badge) to a record in
a file that has your data stored in some structure (like a list of
requirements).
It looks a bit like this:

>>> import shelve
>>> badgefile = shelve.open('badgefil.shl')
>>> badgefile['Communications'] = [
 'Develop a plan to teach a skill',
 'Choose a product or service and build a sales plan',
 'Show how to leave an effective recorded message or voice mail',
 'Write and give a five minute speech to a group',
 'Show how to introduce a speaker',
 'Attend a town meeting and report back to your troop',
 'Write a letter to the editor to express an opinion',
 'Create a autobiographic resume to apply for a job',
 'Find out about careers in communications' ]

Once your database is built and meaning your needs, attach it to a GUI.
Learning all of Tkinter can be daunting but it is not difficult to setup
buttons and to create list boxes.

Here's a simple example of using a Button:

import sys, Tkinter
Tkinter.Button('text'='Click here to Exit', command=sys.exit).pack()
Tkinter.mainloop()

Displaying the requirements in a listbox is also easy:

>>> import Tkinter
>>> req = Tkinter.Listbox()
>>> for line in badgefile['Communications']:
 req.insert(Tkinter.END, line)
>>> req.pack()

This should be enough to get you started.  It is not easy to setup
your first GUI, but the effort is worth it and it is a valuable skill
to have.

If you get stuck and would like some coaching, there is a
friendly group of experts at:
  tutor at python.org


Good luck, happy computing, happy scouting


Raymond Hettinger







From maciej at maciejsobczak.com  Thu Jun 26 13:33:06 2003
From: maciej at maciejsobczak.com (Maciej Sobczak)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:33:06 +0200
Subject: socket programming project
In-Reply-To: <J%vKa.2730$BM.1642219@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
References: <J%vKa.2730$BM.1642219@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <bdfajg$kei$1@SunSITE.icm.edu.pl>

Hi,

drs wrote:

> I am trying to make a small network system where several client computers
> connect to a server.  each client can send messages to the server which must
> alert all of the clients of the information in the messages.  Further, the
> server must be able to alert all connected clients about other occasional
> information. The total number of messages is low, however. for now, security
> is not an issue if that matters.

You may find the YAMI project:

http://www.maciejsobczak.com/prog/yami/

to be very useful for your needs.

> i
> need it to run on freebsd and win32 at a minimum, and pocketPC if at all
> possible.

YAMI works fine on FreeBSD, Linux, MS Windows and SunOS. I did not try 
it on PocketPC, but chances are it will go, if you know how to write 
Makefiles for this platform. ;)

-- 
Maciej Sobczak
http://www.maciejsobczak.com/

Distributed programming lib for C, C++, Python & Tcl:
http://www.maciejsobczak.com/prog/yami/




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Tue Jun 10 21:39:18 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:39:18 +1000
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
In-Reply-To: <20030610142845.4540.qmail@green.zadka.com>
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <20030610142845.4540.qmail@green.zadka.com>
Message-ID: <20030611013918.GA2113@frobozz>

On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 02:28:45PM -0000, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Andrew Bennetts <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> wrote:
> 
> >     class EvilProperty(type):
> >         def __new__(cls, name, bases, d):
> >             return property(d.get('get'), d.get('set'), d.get('del'), d['__doc__'])

[Oops, I meant "d.get('__doc__')", not "d['__doc__']"...]

> >     
> >     class C(object):
> >         class x:
> >             """An evil test property"""
> >             __metaclass__ = EvilProperty
> >             def get(self):
> >                 print 'Getting'
> >                 return 1
> >             def set(self, value):
> >                 print 'Setting to', value
> 
> Wouldn't it be more readable (:)) if you did
> 
> class _EvilProperty(type):
>     ....
> class EvilProperty:
>     __metaclass__ = _EvilProperty
> 
> class C(object):
>     class x(EvilProperty):
>         def get(self):
[...etc...]

No, it wouldn't be more readable, because it wouldn't work...

-Andrew.





From mail at manuelmgarcia.com  Sat Jun 14 14:48:14 2003
From: mail at manuelmgarcia.com (Manuel M Garcia)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 18:48:14 GMT
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com> <84fc4588.0306112339.10a4012b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055460443.2394.python-list@python.org> <dnjkevkeo3evk31jdnmtcclmth8g9otmh9@4ax.com> <mailman.1055554178.13347.python-list@python.org> <ca0levgibttm6bgpn3l7fjjg1h1e6qfuim@4ax.com> <mailman.1055601206.30050.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mhomev4n2lolc0sb9id8m9ul463vn2pn5b@4ax.com>

On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 08:38:31 -0600, Steven Taschuk
<staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

>Assuming the arithmetic of each iteration introduces error which
>is less than quadratic in the number of iterations so far... which
>is very plausible, without even looking at the code again.
>
>And that the initial state is "correct enough" to get it all
>started.  (The quadratic convergence might just be asymptotic
>behaviour; initially it might have much worse behaviour, and thus
>susceptible to the arithmetic error.)

As long as you play by the computer's rules, error is not much of a
problem.  To get 5000 digits, I only had to give the computer 10 extra
digits to work with, and that was probably overkill.  If you get your
algorithms from books, you can trust they will be stable.

The last digit is never to be trusted, but unless you are using a
silly rounding rule, the last digit is actually innocent until proven
guilty.  Error would start at the last digit, and grow from there,
hopefully slowly.  If there is just as much 'jitter' in the positive
direction as the negative direction, the growth will be slow, because
a lot of the errors will cancel each other out.

For the most part, 3 things can cause error to grow unmanageably with
floating point:

1) Bias.  One of the operations you use a lot always adds some error,
and always in the same direction (truncation is good for adding this
error, I break this rule using integer math in the program, but
happily I don't need enough iterations to get burned)
2) Subtraction with two numbers that are _very_ close together
(hopefully you can use algebra to prevent this).
3) adding together a lengthy series of very small numbers, hoping they
will grow into a large number (this is why many pretty looking
infinite forms of Pi are no darn good to compute digits)

(There are other problems you can have with financial data, dealing
with different stupid rounding rules)

And if you are working with integers, you can have 1 more error,
forgetting to scale up before division.

(if I forgot any others, I guess I will learn them the hard way ;-)

If you play by these rules, things work out pretty good.  The worst
case scenario with error never shows up.

Manuel



From bhahn at spam-spam.g0-away.com  Tue Jun  3 14:38:08 2003
From: bhahn at spam-spam.g0-away.com (Brendan Hahn)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 18:38:08 GMT
Subject: Variable Modifications in a class
References: <mailman.1054658001.11458.python-list@python.org> <3EDCDB05.8E12F97@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054662907.14500.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bhahn-ya02408000R0306031122560001@news.corp.hp.com>

"Mehta, Anish" <Anish.Mehta at enst-bretagne.fr> wrote:
>  Thanks for the explaination.  That point is clear and also one thing 
>more is that when we have the same piece of code in c , and when we do 
>'c = b' then copy constructor is invoked.

You will find tools for this in the 'copy' module. See
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-copy.html

-- 
brendan DOT hahn AT hp DOT com



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 20 17:18:38 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:18:38 +0100
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056133597.28230.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EF37A2E.AC8D9314@hotmail.com>

Roman Suzi wrote:

> I have a feeling that XML steadily moves out of buzz-word set into
> usual life. But along with this I have a feeling that XML is not as
> useful as it was presented during it's hype period. I myself have
> not found any use for it. There is always something more practical
> than XML.

I think that there are some important areas where XML can, does and will
continue to make an impact, apart from the obvious usability in data
interchange.

One example is the portability of technical knowledge that comes about
for people who use markup. Take javascript: Creative
and design people, i.e. non-programmers, who have learnt to manipulate
HTML and xhtml DOMs using javascript can take that knowledge directly
over to manipulating SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics) DOMs, for example:
the principles and execution are exactly the same.

That last statement is not always true when you get into proprietary
formats, such as Macromedia Flash for example. The latter does a
*reasonable* job at some tough tasks

 o Streaming content
 o Optimising bandwidth usage, encoding only changes in a visual
representation
 o Doing compression on content
 o Synchronising multiple media streams

But, until recently, users of Macromedia's Flash programming toolset had
to learn a different object model from that which they were accustomed
to in HTML DOMs. Macromedia worked hard to rectify this in Flash 5 and
6, because they recognised that they were risking excluding potential
users: "actionscript" continually gets closer to javascript.

I know the argument could be made that this "knowledge transferability"
is a feature of javascript, not of XML. But javascript was designed as a
language to manipulate DOMs, so it could be viewed as an (HT|X|*)ML
specific language. I think the ubiquity of javascript (not always to the
common good ;-) says something about Markup as a simple data model that
ordinary people can understand and use in practise. Markup is
introducing whole generations to a declarative style of programming, as
used in for example, Cascading Style Sheets, Netscape XUL sidebars, etc.
I know grandmothers that hand code HTML+CSS in Notepad (really).

Of course the point remains that XML is hugely resource inefficient for
many problems. But maybe in 5 years we'll have so many terahertz and
gigabytes and megabits-per-sec that we won't care. Just this week, I was
delighted to take delivery of a little (1cm x 3cm) USB keyring that
stores 256 megabytes in non volatile, zero power requirement, solid
state storage (kewl ;-) . It cost me ?55 plus VAT: someone told me later
that day that I could have bought 512 Megs for ?45! Efficiency in
resource usage is not necessarily a barrier to adoption, as Microsoft
have been demonstrating for years.

It can also be said that XML confuses many issues: e.g. the old canard
of expressing programming languages in XML ("Xython"). But that can be a
boon as well: without all this confusion, how else could we IT people
keep ourselves gainfully employed <0.3 wink>

On the python side, I believe that, although javascript is custom
designed for manipulating markup data structures, python is the best
natural fit for such data structures. Python's combined simplicity and
power in manipulating sets, sequences and mappings makes it a very
natural fit for XML (and indeed general data) processing. I wouldn't be
surprised if Python, or something very close to it, shows up as a
compulsory subject for school kids sometime in the next ten years. And
of course, python was what cured me from my irrational desire to
represent everything in XML %-)

--
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Thu Jun 19 17:22:37 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:22:37 +0100
Subject: Using ftplib to upload a file to a server....
In-Reply-To: <bcsfef$oid$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <bcsfef$oid$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <200306192221.28788.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Thursday 19 Jun 2003 2:56 pm, Francois Meehan wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Please excuse my "newbiness", but I can't get python to upload a file using
> ftplib, basically I don't make sense of the transfercmd.
>
> I can connect, return a file listing, but could not find upload example on
> the net.
>
> Could someone provide me an example? Or is there an easier modules to use
> for FTP file transfer?
>
> Francois


You may find this interesting (I'm not making any claims as to *how* 
interesting, tho).

I'm using this (in an incrementally modified state) at the moment to transfre 
files to/from AS/400 and HP-UX ftp servers, and it's working fine...

Hope it helps

-andyj

-----------------8<---------------

import ftplib
import os

localfilecache="c:/temp/ftpcache/"

class ftpfile(file):
	""" url,mode="r",buffering=-1
	
	    FTP aware file object which delegates "normal" file operations
	    to the superclass.

	    If the file name begins "ftp://", FTP mode is enabled.

	    In FTP mode, where reading of the file is required, the file is
	    first downloaded from the remote host,  and where writing is
	    required, the file is uploaded when it is closed.

	    NOTE THAT FTP READS AND WRITES ARE PERFORMED ON A LOCAL COPY
	    
	"""

	def __init__(self,name,mode="r",buffering=-1):
		if not name.startswith("ftp://"):
			return super(ftpfile).__init__(name,mode,buffering)
		self.filemode=mode		
		self.decodeurl(name)
		self.localfilename=os.path.join(localfilecache,
						self.host,self.user,
						self.path,self.filename)
		localpath=os.path.join(localfilecache,
				       self.host,self.user,
				       self.path)
		if not os.path.exists(localpath):
			os.makedirs(localpath)
		# Decide if we need to download the file first
		if self.filemode[0] not in ["w","wb"]:
			self.downloadfile(name,self.filemode)
		# Short-circuit our close() method if file doesn't need
		# to be uploaded
		if self.filemode in ["r","rb"]:
			self.close=super(ftpfile,self).close
		#self.localfilehandle=file(self.localfilename,self.filemode)
		return super(ftpfile,self).__init__(self.localfilename,mode,buffering)

	def close(self):
		# ... then upload it
		ftpconn=ftplib.FTP(self.host,self.user,self.passwd,None)
		ftpconn.cwd(self.path)
		try:
			ftpconn.delete(self.filename)
		except:
			pass
		super(ftpfile,self).close()
		self.localfilehandle=file(self.localfilename,"r")
		if "b" in self.mode:
			ftpconn.storbinary("STOR "+self.filename,self.localfilehandle)
		else:
			ftpconn.storlines("STOR "+self.filename,self.localfilehandle)			
		ftpconn.close()
		# Close the file...
		self.localfilehandle.close()
		
	def downloadfile(self,name,mode):
		# Use correct file mode
		if "b" in mode:
			retr=ftplib.FTP.retrbinary
			self.writer=self.binwriter
			localmode="wb"
		else:
			retr=ftplib.FTP.retrlines
			self.writer=self.txtwriter
			localmode="w"
		# Download the file
		if os.path.exists(self.localfilename):
			os.remove(self.localfilename)
		self.localfilehandle=file(self.localfilename,localmode)
		ftpconn=ftplib.FTP(self.host,self.user,self.passwd)
		ftpconn.cwd(self.path)
		if "b" in mode:
			ftpconn.retrbinary("RETR "+self.filename,self.binwriter)
		else:
			ftpconn.retrlines("RETR "+self.filename,self.txtwriter)
		ftpconn.close()
		self.localfilehandle.close()
			
	def decodeurl(self,url):
		""" decodes an ftp url into its component fields:

			ftp://[user[:passwd]@]host[:port]/path/filename
			     /     /       /      /      /    /
			     |     |       |      |      |    lastslash
			     |     |       |      |       firstslash
			     |     |       at     portcolon
			     |     colon
			     6
		"""

		# Sanity check:
		if not url.startswith("ftp://"):
			raise "Malformed url:",url
		
		# Do we have a user:passwd pair?
		at=url.find("@",6)
		colon=url.find(":",6)
		portcolon=url.find(":",at)
		if at == -1:
			at=6
			self.user=None
			self.passwd=None
		else:
			if colon == -1:
				colon=at
			self.user=url[6:colon]
			self.passwd=url[colon+1:at]
			if self.passwd == "":
				self.passwd=None
		firstslash=url.find("/",at)
		if firstslash == -1:
			raise "Malformed url:",url
		if portcolon !=-1:			
			self.host=url[at+1:portcolon]
			self.port=url[portcolon:firstslash]
		else:
			self.host=url[at+1:firstslash]
			self.port=":21"
		lastslash=url.rfind("/")
		if lastslash == -1:
			raise "Malformed url:",url
		self.filename=url[lastslash+1:]
		self.path=url[firstslash:lastslash]
		print self.user+":"+self.passwd+"."
		print self.host,self.path,self.filename

	def binwriter(self,block):
		self.localfilehandle.write(block)

	def txtwriter(self,line):
		self.localfilehandle.write(line+"\n")

	def write(self,string):
		print "Writing",repr(string)
		super(ftpfile,self).write(string)












From logistix at cathoderaymission.net  Thu Jun  5 16:28:10 2003
From: logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 13:28:10 -0700
Subject: Python grammer and student projects
References: <mailman.1054818789.18945.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c91a864.0306051228.18108872@posting.google.com>

> 
> This semester I've to conduct a lecture about compiler-building 
> (german: Compilerbau) with some exercise. And this exercise tries to 
> develop a hand-crafted Python compiler without using tools like lex and 
> so on. My opinion is, that the resulting compiler can't compete by far 
> with any other Python compiler, especially that from python.org. It's 
> only for teaching the students how to develop a compiler "by hand" and 
> how much work it is ;-)
> 

There is a pure-python compiler that comes with python
(/Lib/Compiler).  It's about 40x slower than the builtin compiler.  It
also uses the builtin parser.

I wrote a handcoded parser a few months ago.  It took less than a week
parttime.  Plugging this in made the python compiler about 60x slower
than the builtin one.  Available here if you're interested.

http://www.cathoderaymission.net/~logistix/python/pparser.py

You might also be interested in Pypy at http://www.codespeak.net/ 
They're trying to write the whole runtime environment in pure python.



From maj64 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 13 04:51:01 2003
From: maj64 at hotmail.com (Mark J)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 01:51:01 -0700
Subject: Python v2.3 and dict.fromkeys() suggestion
References: <a0567c6b.0306090333.4ee2d89e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a0567c6b.0306130051.1d331878@posting.google.com>

So let me try another tack...

Can anyone tell me what I'm missing with regard to the preference for
dict.fromkeys() to be a classmethod/constructor versus a regular
method?

In addition to the latter increasing the range of application, the
dictionary interface wouldn't even have to be expanded -- you could
"overload" dict.update() to check its argument type and just Do The
Right Thing...

Thanks,

Mike



From lists at andreas-jung.com  Sat Jun  7 03:37:00 2003
From: lists at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 09:37:00 +0200
Subject: Find & Replace in Zope
In-Reply-To: <425a7ca0.0306062305.efd326e@posting.google.com>
References: <425a7ca0.0306062305.efd326e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1321670962.1054978620@[192.168.0.3]>

Use the Zope mailinglist for Zope related questions.

-aj

--On Samstag, 7. Juni 2003 0:05 Uhr -0700 Noam Cassif <noam at work2you.net> 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Tring to find a sign in a string and replace it by "" (nothing)
> I didnt find the command for that.
>
> any suggestions ?
>
> thanks in advance.
>
> Noam.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list








From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Jun  9 13:12:13 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 21:12:13 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <20030609081617512-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306092105360.4609-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On 9 Jun 2003, Kevin Smith wrote:

>This is the first draft of a PEP describing new syntax for applying 
>function modifiers (e.g. classmethod, staticmethod, etc).  There is 
>currently no implementation of the proposed syntax (I have heard rumors 
>that the 'def foo(self) [...]' syntax has a patch somewhere, but I 
>haven't seen it yet).  I have already received a few comments and will 
>revise the document soon.  The latest version will always be available 
>at http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0318.html.
>
>
>        def classmethod foo(self):
>            perform method operation 

oh no... I hope Python will not be another Java. I think current

f = something(f)
is much better. Maybe

f.set_lock(lock)

or something like this could be more torelable than what the PEP proposes.
Or better yet multiline lambda ;-)

f = something(something2(lambda x:
   here we go
))

Python is language of least surprise, isn't it? So why invent
awkward syntax when functional notation is already there?

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From gupt_vive at hotmail.com  Thu Jun  5 02:52:09 2003
From: gupt_vive at hotmail.com (vivek kumar)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:22:09 +0530
Subject: Not getting all keys in FieldStorage (Multipart form data)
Message-ID: <Law15-F11kvdIBirXXe0000b69b@hotmail.com>

today morning I searched again with string "python file upload" on google 
and found the June 2002 mail archive at:

   
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-June/subject.html#110446

there is a thread named "python file upload". I found the solution for 
uploading the binary files there. :-) Actually I am using win2k, so I have 
to use -u option as described at:

   http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq07.012.htp

But the original problem is still there. I have tried hidden input values 
also but they still doesn't show up in the FieldStorage :-(.

TIA and Kind Regards
Vivek Kumar


>From: "Graeme Matthew" <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au>
>To: "vivek kumar" <gupt_vive at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Not getting all keys in FieldStorage (Multipart form data)
>Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:19:33 +1000
>
>sorry , ill look tommrow at work and get it and email to u, cos i spent 
>ages
>looking for a solution
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "vivek kumar" <gupt_vive at hotmail.com>
>To: <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au>; <python-list at python.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 11:17 PM
>Subject: Re: Not getting all keys in FieldStorage (Multipart form data)
>
>
> > >From: "Graeme Matthew" <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au>
> > >To: "vivek kumar" <gupt_vive at hotmail.com>
> > >Subject: Re: Not getting all keys in FieldStorage (Multipart form data)
> > >Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:56:00 +1000
> > >
> > >sorry, the code i use is at work andits been a while what about ?
> >
> >shutil.copyfileobj(base64.encode(form['book_image'].file.read()),destinatio
>n
> > >,1024)
> >
> > encode takes two inputs : the input file and the output file. Anyway I
>tried
> > that also but it still didn't worked :-(. I tried base64.encodestring 
>also
> > but :-(.......
> >
> > Thanks and Kind Regards
> > Vivek Kumar
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Race along with NK. The fastest Indian
> > http://server1.msn.co.in/sp03/tataracing/index.asp Feel the thrill!
> >
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________
Staying fit. It's about being happy! 
http://server1.msn.co.in/features/stayingfit/index.asp Check out the new 
mantra.





From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jun  3 06:18:34 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 03:18:34 -0700
Subject: tuple to list to tuple conversion
References: <mailman.1054632487.5272.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EDC75FA.4B4E7F57@alcyone.com>

Vinoo vasudevan wrote:

> params is already a tuple. I needed to add a few more parameters
> inside 'mymethod' so I
> did this:
> params = tuple((list(params)).append(something))
> when params is an empty tuple to begin with, the stmt sets it to None
> instead of
> (something, )

Isaac Carroll pointed out a better way to do this.  The reason that
you're having this problem here is because append is a method which
modifies the object in place; it does not return anything.  (Your code
example is also illegal; you show it appending to a tuple which is
illegal.)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ War is like love, it always finds a way.
\__/  Bertolt Brecht



From iastauff at hta.fhz.ch  Tue Jun 17 02:29:27 2003
From: iastauff at hta.fhz.ch (Thomas Stauffer)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:29:27 +0200
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030617082927.0e9c9096.iastauff@hta.fhz.ch>

In a very strict language, type-safety can really help you avoid
problems. It's one stage of a test. Which language do I talk about? I
don't know. ADA gets closes to this approach, perhaps.

C++ isn't a strict language at all. 1. You have theses nasty pointers to
cast from one edge to the other. 2. You can't overload a function/method
which different only in the return type. Why? Because there are a lot of
implicit ambiguous conversion.

Java isn't better. For example the Interface Transparency: It's a kind
of an enumeration with values 0, 1 and 2. In Java, a wonderful Integer
with 2^32 possibilities. Do we call this compile-time check?

I saw a transparency-like enumeration with another range (don't
remember), starting with value 0 like all other enumerations. These
other constant (value 1) worked with my Image function, but not as I
expected.

What do I want to say?

There is an alternative view, the API-User view. In a strong typed
language I don't have to look at the documentation. Based on the type
it's difficult to choose a wrong value. Read thousands of pages
(JavaDoc) needs a lot of time, too.

By the way, Dylan has an interesting idea. Dylan combines typed and
untyped variables (IMO the only real new idea).

Today, there isn't great advantage between so called typed an untyped
language. I'm sure there's a language out there been developed, which
solves our problems. Perhaps there's a time where we have a compiler
which can easily prove for a statically correctness. (Come on Dijkstra
we need more fancy ideas :)

Python gets more and more close to Lisp/Scheme without the lack of
readability. Add a rational type (PEP, I know), add lazy-evaluation -
and we have one of the most powerful languages, without types.

Thomas



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jun 19 13:32:54 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 18:32:54 +0100
Subject: Need help optimizing first script
References: <a34b632.0306190503.32483efe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87llvyrn09.fsf@pobox.com>

popup391 at yahoo.com (Frederic Lafleche) writes:

> I put this script together mainly from bits and pieces I picked up in
> this newsgroup and one or two books lying around. What it does is map
> a given NT network drive and copy a file to it if some conditions are
> met.  As this is my first script, I'm looking for ways to improve code
> in any possible way, whether it's overall design, style, grammar,
> logic, readability, performance, validation, anything.

Use a docstring, not a comment.  A blank line before the imports is
more readable, IMHO.

> #copyacs.py
> import os, shutil, sys, time, win32file
> from win32wnet import WNetAddConnection2, error

Superfluous comment.  We know where there are functions when we see
'def'.

> # Functions

This can be turned into a docstring, in standard format.

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0257.html

And I presume you mean yyyy, not yyy.

> # Generate timestamp
> # OUTPUT: string in yyymmddhhmm format
> def determineFN():

Another useless comment.  Note that in recent Pythons,
time.localtime's default is time.time() anyway, so you probably don't
need this at all.

>     # Get current time
>     now = time.time()
>     # Parse elements

You don't need all those brackets (certainly not around the RHS), and
the 'I' convention you seem to be using there meant nothing to me --
it slowed me down rather than helped.

>     (Iyear, Imonth, Iday, Ihour, Iminute) = (time.localtime(now)[:5])

You could do this with map -- drop the line above, and:

year, month, day, hour, minute = map(str, time.localtime(now)[:5])

>     year = str(Iyear)
>     month = str(Imonth)
>     day = str(Iday)
>     hour = str(Ihour)
>     minute = str(Iminute)

But wait a minute, you didn't need to map to str in the first place --
you can do this with the string formatting operator %.

    return ("%.4d"+"%.2d"*4) % time.localtime()[:5]

And get rid of all this:

>     # Padding
>     if len(month) == 1:
>         month = '0' + month
>     if len(day) == 1:
>         day = '0' + day
>     if len(hour) == 1:
>         hour = '0' + hour
>     if len(minute) == 1:
>         minute = '0' + minute
> 
>     return year + month + day + hour + minute

So, now we've got that function and those comments down to:

def determineFN():
    """Return timestamp in yyyymmddhhmm format."""
    return ("%.4d"+"%.2d"*4) % time.localtime()[:5]

Note docstring style: for example, wording, spacing and use of
triple-double quotes (see the PEP for why).


But we can do better.

def timestamp():
    """Return timestamp in yyyymmddhhmm format."""
    time.strftime("%Y%m%d%H%M")


You can ditch the function and the docstring altogether, now.  :-)



> # Map network drive
> def use (drive, host, user, passwd):
>     try:
>         WNetAddConnection2 (1, drive, host, None, user, passwd)
>         return 0
>     except error:
>         return 1

Apart from the comment where there should be a docstring, OK.  It's
good to stick to a consistent code formatting style, though, so get
rid of that space between 'use' and the parameter list.

If you're using Python 2.2 or 2.3, you can use True and False there in
place of 1 and 0.  If not, personally I like to introduce something
similar for clarity (at the top of a script or module):

try: True
except NameError:
    True = 1
    False = 0

I'm not 100% sure the function earns its keep, mind you.


What's this comment here for?  Cut it.

> # Variable assignments

A useful, widely-followed and -known convention is to use ALL_CAPS for
globals like these.

As I read your code, I have to guess at this point that you want me
(your user ATM -- but remember 'your user' will be YOU in the future,
when you've forgotten the details of your own code) to fill in the
first five assignments here, and leave the rest to your code to
calculate.  Why should I have to *guess* that?  Split those
assignments off from the rest visually with a blank line or two.  Then
you can get rid of all those repeated 'Enter xxx' bits in the
comments, too, in favour of a single comment explaining that you want
me to fill these in.  Why not then put them at the top of your source
code, where somebody can actually see them, rather than having to read
*all* of your source to figure out how to use it?

I like to use the coding style (more or less) described by Guido van
Rossum (it's a PEP, can't be bothered to look it up for you -- Google
for it).  Some of the things it suggests are tiny details, like using
two spaces before an inline comment.  Trivial, yes, but why not be
standard?  It also says:

foo = 1                           # don't
really_long_variable_name = None  # line up comments like this

These are actually reasonable rules -- slightly more space makes for
readability, and lining up comments uses your time for no good
payback.

> devicename = 'I:' # Enter network drive number.  Ex. format: 'Z:'

Ugh, code mixed up with data I'm supposed to enter.  Use os.path.join
here, not +.  Portability isn't an issue with this script, but it's
clearer, and you'll make fewer mistakes with it.

> dirTarget = devicename + '\\it\\popup' # Enter target path.
> sharename = '\\\\afs\\grps'            # Enter shared resource name.  
> username = 'login' # Enter user account inside single quotes
> password = 'password' # Enter user password inside single quotes
> drives = []                                 
> drivemask = win32file.GetLogicalDrives()    # Bitmask

More pointless comments.  I suppose maybe I'm a bit harsh here: when
you're learning something new, it can be useful to have comments like
this just to remind *yourself*.  As long as you stop doing it pretty
quickly!

> acsMode = sys.argv[1]    # Get second command-line argument of list.
>                          # (First argument is program name.)
> dirSource = 'd:\\oracle\\acs\\' + acsMode   # Source directory
> acsfile = 'import.txt'                      # File to copy
> sourceacsfile = dirSource + '\\' + acsfile  # Absolute path

And there was me thinking the main body already started.  Comment out
of sync with code.  If you get rid of the comment, that can't happen.
Use def main(): instead.  OK, so it's a tiny script, so you could not
bother with a main(), but an explicit function is better than a
comment.

> # Main body
> 
> fDate = determineFN()
> execlog = dirSource + '\\logs\\trace' + fDate + '.log'                

Why is this "Operations log" comment floating down here?  The
universal convention is that comments refer to stuff on the
*following* lines, not preceding lines.

>          # Operations log
> timestring = time.strftime("%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S",

Don't need time.time() for recent Pythons.  Oh, wait a minute -- why
is the indentation the same as the previous line?  Very hard to read,
mostly because nobody expects that.  Get a good editor, it'll do that
automatically, and also make some otherwise hard-to-spot mistakes
stand out by refusing to indent your code properly.

> time.localtime(time.time()))    # Timestamp

Another pointless comment.

Hey, wait a minute: I just realised you already knew about strftime!
So why a separate function, AND this use of strftime directly?  At
this point I run out of energy.  :-)


John



From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Jun 25 17:44:28 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:44:28 +0200
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
In-Reply-To: <3EF9EF52.8070600@yahoo.com>
References: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com> <3EF9EF52.8070600@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3EFA17BC.9060600@mxm.dk>

Gobo Borz wrote:
> Thanks Alan, Anthony, and Andy!  B's thru Z's need not respond, I have 
> my answer.

Actually there are yet a few twists to put on this.

# renaming the append method makes it a bit easier on the eye.

htmlPage=[]
a = htmlPage.append # ah dynamic languages

a("<html><header></header><body>")
a("more html")
....
a("more html")
....
a("<\body><\html>")
htmlDoc="\n".join(htmlPage)


# using cStringIO should be the fastest approach

import cStringIO
io = cStringIO()
a = io.write

a("<html><header></header><body>\n")
a("more html\n")
....
a("more html\n")
....
a("<\body><\html>\n")
htmlDoc = io.getvalue()
io.close()


regards Max M




From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jun 11 18:32:05 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:32:05 -0700
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <Xns9396F155DC093cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3EE654A5.1F158A91@alcyone.com> <Xns9398330FC7AFcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <3EE7ADE5.334EC7E9@alcyone.com>

Chris Liechti wrote:

> Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in
> news:3EE654A5.1F158A91 at alcyone.com:
> 
> > To me it says, "Hi, I'm a list!" when listness does not seem
> > warranted.
> > Yes, we're talking about a sequence of properties, but the square
> > brackets just look wrong there to me.
> 
> ok, so you dont like any sort of indexing neither ;-)
> as in >>> 'hello'[3]

Well, I _did_ say "there."  There isn't any indexing going on there,
either, so no, I still don't think the square bracket list delimiters
belong.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If I had another face, do you think I'd wear this one?
\__/  Abraham Lincoln



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Jun 11 09:49:58 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:49:58 -0500
Subject: Modules with __getattr__ (Re: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exc
	eption Instantiation)
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330509C616@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)
> [mailto:g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 10:04 PM
> 
> By the way, the main use case I have for this is
> for implementing autoloading of classes, so that I
> can have a top-level package which apparently contains
> a bunch of classes, but they don't actually get created
> until someone asks for them. A module class with a
> __getattr__ would be ideal for this.
> 
> I can feel a PEP coming on...
>

Maybe it's not necessary; PMW already does something
like this, when you import a megawidget by:

>>> import PMW.xxxx

it searches the modules in the PMW package and imports
the latest version available.

hth.

-gca
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jun 17 21:17:39 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:17:39 -0400
Subject: preventing creation of instance
References: <bco6se$frs$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de> <3EEFA09F.43409D6A@engcorp.com> <yfsn0gg9qcy.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3EEFBDB3.1D8254F0@engcorp.com>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> > I believe raising any exception in __init__ is the way to prevent
> > the creation of the object.  I don't think you can do this with
> > a technique that returns None, unless you are actually calling
> > a factory function which internally attempts to create the object
> > and catches the exception thrown, returning None if it happens.
> 
> >>> class Test(object):
> ...    def __new__(cls): return None
> ...
> >>> Test()
> >>>
> 
> see http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html#__new__

D'oh!  I really ought to find a reason to learn about the
"__new__-fangled" methods in the latest Python releases...  

I just can't seem to find a reason to use them though (yet).

-Peter



From ebolonev at mail.ru  Sun Jun 29 19:23:22 2003
From: ebolonev at mail.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:23:22 +1100
Subject: get_file_size
References: <bdnqri$j72$1@news.rol.ru> <slrnbfusdq.vc1.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <bdnsdi$jro$1@news.rol.ru>

> > f=open('1','wb')
> > print len(f)
>
> You don't need to open the file to get its size.  The file's size is
> stored in the directory metadata about the file, along with its
> modification time, file name, permissions, etc.

How about that?
f=open('1','wb')
f.write(something)
print len(f)
Should I close file for get it size or should I write a C-like function with
seek(end),tell, seek(old)?





From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 10 23:41:38 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:41:38 +1200
Subject: Octets calculation?
In-Reply-To: <65eFa.634621$Si4.577158@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
References: <65eFa.634621$Si4.577158@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <bc673d$f0tpn$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Tyreal wrote:
> I was reading over the POP3 RFC  (RFC 1939) and it states that message sizes must be
> in octets, but that it's different in bytes in that they are nonambigious (ie. bytes vary from platform
> to platform).

In my experience, this supposed ambiguity about the meaning
of the word "byte" is something that only exists in the
rarified imaginations of standards writers. In the real
world, nobody ever uses it to mean anything other than
8 bits.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From MatthewS at HeyAnita.com  Wed Jun 18 22:28:00 2003
From: MatthewS at HeyAnita.com (Matt Shomphe)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 19:28:00 -0700
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
References: <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5ab0af73.0306181828.512d5b00@posting.google.com>

wrbt at email.com (Larry) wrote in message news:<2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6 at posting.google.com>...
> I need to take a list (probably 20k to 40k elements) of numbers and
> remove consecutive duplicates. Non consecutive duplicates are ok.
> 
> Example: [6,3,3,3,5,7,6,3,4,4,3] => [6,3,5,7,6,3,4,3]
> 
> The 3 and 6 can appear more than once in the result set because
> they're separated by another value. Obviously this is trivial to
> accomplish by walking thru the list and building a new one (or yanking
> elements out of the existing one) but I'm curious if anyone knows of a
> more clever way, with speed being a goal more than memory usage.

This requires having access to the enumerate() function (which is
built-in in 2.3).  Not sure about speed, but it *is* a one liner:
>>> l = [6,3,3,3,5,7,6,3,4,4,3]
>>> [x for i,x in enumerate(l) if l[i-1] != x or i == 0]
[6, 3, 5, 7, 6, 3, 4, 3]



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Jun 24 11:27:09 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:27:09 +0200
Subject: Booleans and comparison results
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306241915430.5887-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306241915430.5887-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <20030624152709.GA4076@nl.linux.org>

Roman Suzi wrote:
> Just a thought. Why cmp() returns -1,0,1 while comparison
> results are False and True? Isn't it logical step to add
> Less, Equal and More?
> 
> >>> cmp(1,2)
> Less
> >>> cmp(1,-1)
> More
> >>> cmp(1,1)
> Equal

Well, "Less" is not always the right term:

cmp("", " ")

Is "" less than " "? I don't think so: I think that for non-numbers, "Less"
and "More" may be misleading/incorrect. I like the idea though ;)

> rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3

17:26:55:2:gerrit at stopcontact:~$ cat /etc/redhat-release
Red Hat Linux release 9 (Shrike)

Gerrit.

-- 
7. If any one buy from the son or the slave of another man, without
witnesses or a contract, silver or gold, a male or female slave, an ox or
a sheep, an ass or anything, or if he take it in charge, he is considered
a thief and shall be put to death.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From just at xs4all.nl  Mon Jun  2 10:43:50 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:43:50 +0200
Subject: Detect hung apps spawned from python
References: <3edb494b$0$12997$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <just-8F68BC.16435002062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <3edb494b$0$12997$afc38c87 at news.easynet.co.uk>,
 "David Stubbs" <david at snsys.com> wrote:

> I have a python app that builds a list of all subdirectories from the
> current directory, and then in turn runs a 'test.py' script from within each
> of these directories. I currently do this using os.system().

Sorry for not answering your question, but have you considered 
os.listdir() and os.path.isfile()?

Just



From ngterry2000 at yahoo.com.hk  Fri Jun  6 01:27:40 2003
From: ngterry2000 at yahoo.com.hk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Terence=20Ng?=)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:27:40 +0800 (CST)
Subject: Characters in Python
Message-ID: <20030606052740.71433.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com>

Does that mean I have to use the unicode function to
convert the string first in Python 2.2?

Reference:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?querytype=anykeywords&casefold=yes&req=search&query=unicode

Is there any way I can change Python2.2 for Windows's
default value to utf_8?

Terence

_______________________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com.hk address at http://mail.english.yahoo.com.hk




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jun 18 14:29:29 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 18:29:29 GMT
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
References: <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055954074.31916.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcqb29$6h8$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:41:23 -0600, Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

>Quoth Larry:
>> I need to take a list (probably 20k to 40k elements) of numbers and
>> remove consecutive duplicates. Non consecutive duplicates are ok.
>> 
>> Example: [6,3,3,3,5,7,6,3,4,4,3] => [6,3,5,7,6,3,4,3]
>> 
>> The 3 and 6 can appear more than once in the result set because
>> they're separated by another value. Obviously this is trivial to
>> accomplish by walking thru the list and building a new one (or yanking
>> elements out of the existing one) but I'm curious if anyone knows of a
>> more clever way, with speed being a goal more than memory usage.
>
>If speed is the goal, removing elements from the existing list is
>not indicated; that would take O(n**2) time, since each removal
>has to shift all subsequent elements down one spot.
You've probably posted and oops by now, but I don't think that has to take O(n**2) ;-)
(Untested beyond what you see here, so I could have an oops coming ;-)

 >>> def listuniq(thelist):
 ...     i=0
 ...     for item in thelist:
 ...         if item==thelist[i]: continue
 ...         i+=1
 ...         thelist[i]=item
 ...     del thelist[i+1:]
 ...
 >>> alist = [6,3,3,3,5,7,6,3,4,4,3]
 >>> listuniq(alist)
 >>> alist
 [6, 3, 5, 7, 6, 3, 4, 3]

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Sun Jun 15 11:16:34 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:16:34 -0500
Subject: Interfacing Python with C++
In-Reply-To: <1wWGa.11812$KF1.273586@amstwist00> ("carljohan.rehn@chello.se"'s
 message of "Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:18:37 +0200")
References: <1wWGa.11812$KF1.273586@amstwist00>
Message-ID: <m265n78j71.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "carljohan" == carljohan rehn at chello se <carljohan.rehn at chello.se> writes:

    carljohan> I have understood that there are many toolkits and
    carljohan> libraries available for extending Python with C++ (eg
    carljohan> SWIG, CXX, Boost, etc).

You may want to subscribe to the c++ special interest group, a mailing
list dedicated to C++ and python;
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/c++-sig/.  I haven't used CXX,
but Boost has much more support for C++ than SWIG does.

You may also want to check out pyste, a tool to automate boost python
extension building: http://www.boost.org/libs/python/pyste/.  

John Hunter




From exarkun at intarweb.us  Sat Jun 21 01:11:45 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:11:45 -0400
Subject: unittest and automatically firing off tests
In-Reply-To: <e9o7fvo04c3ocnp352vqbmmhrku30i61h4@4ax.com>
References: <e9o7fvo04c3ocnp352vqbmmhrku30i61h4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030621051145.GA6939@meson.dyndns.org>

On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 09:57:37PM -0700, Tom Plunket wrote:
> I'm a long-time CppUnit TDDer and a relatively competent C++
> coder...  I'm trying to make tests that automatically fire off
> every time I run the test app, so I derive my test classes from
> unittest.TestCase, build a bunch of tests in each one called
> testSomething, and name the file test_<class_under_test>.py.
> Finally, I have test.py implemented as such:
> 
> : import unittest
> : import os
> : 
> : if __name__ == "__main__":
> :     names = os.listdir('.')
> :     tests = []
> :     for name in names:
> :         if name[:5] == "test_" and name[-3:] == os.extsep+"py":
> :             modname = name[:-3]
> :             tests.append(modname)
> :     tests.sort()
> : 
> :     for test in tests:
> :         try:
> :             unittest.main(test)
> :         except SystemExit:
> :             pass
> : 
> :     s = raw_input("\n<Enter> to continue.\n")
> :     pass
> 
> Things I don't like about this?  You bet.
> 
> 1) Why in the name of all that is holy does unittest.main() throw
>    regardless of tests passing?
> 
> 2) Why can't I readily pass a list of tests to unittest.main()? 
>    (I mean, besides the fact that it's not implemented; was this
>    a concious ommision?)
> 
> 3) I feel like I should automatically batch up tests and fire
>    them off to unittest.run() or something similar.  Is this as
>    straight-forward and easy, and could I batch them all into one
>    mega-suite?  Are there any reasons why I wouldn't want to do
>    that?

  Since all the points you bring up are related to selecting the tests to
run, and then getting them to run, I feel confident in suggested
twisted.trial, which presents an API very similar to that of unittest, but
which -also- presents a commandline tool, "trial", for selecting and running
tests.  Some examples of usage of trial:

    trial project/test/test_things.py
    trial project/test/
    trial project.test
    trial project.test.test_things.ThingyTestCase.testPrimaryThingy

  I realize I haven't addressed any unittest.py issues, but I hope this is
helpful anyway.

  Jp

-- 
It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to
students that have had prior exposure to BASIC: as potential
programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of
regeneration.        -- Dijkstra




From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Jun  9 06:51:43 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 12:51:43 +0200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m37k7xxefu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1he70hnlc.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3y90cup7z.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1adcrg32c.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <m3n0grfrr4.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Ed Avis <ed at membled.com> writes:

> >For example, what is the meaning of
> >
> >a = lambda b : return b > 0
> 
> I propose it to mean the same as
> 
>     def fresh(b):
>       return b > 0
>     a = fresh

Why not the same as

def fresh(b):
  return b
a = fresh > 0

?

Regards,
Martin



From just at xs4all.nl  Sun Jun  1 06:17:43 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 12:17:43 +0200
Subject: Defensive programming
References: <hIqp1WAG0c2+Ew1+@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <just-D3F44A.12174201062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <hIqp1WAG0c2+Ew1+ at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
 Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> This recently slashdotted paper
> 
> http://www.cs.rice.edu/~scrosby/hash/CrosbyWallach_UsenixSec2003/index.html
> 
> suggests that many common algorithms (including perl hashing) are open to low 
> input
> DoS attack.
> 
> I know that the Timbot and other python 'bots are pretty smart, but are there 
> python
> algorithms that suffer the same vulnerabilities?
> 
> Regular expression matching seems like a pretty easy target for some devilish
> inputs.

There's a thread on python-dev about this, started by one of the authors 
of the above paper.

Just



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Jun 28 11:53:52 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 28 Jun 2003 17:53:52 +0200
Subject: Have I broken my installation?
References: <b8crfvcsd8pit555p24rrc19f05a9578pb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3d6gyjizz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Matt Mower <mmower at novissio.com> writes:

> Googling around it seems like I needed to build XML support when I
> built Python.  I'm not sure what I should have done differently when I
> built in order to make that happen.  

You should have edited Modules/Setup, to activate pyexpat. Before
that, you probably should have installed a more recent Expat version
than the one shipped with Redhat.

> Now instead of the previous error I get a different problem entirely:
> 
> >Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "/mnt/hugedisk/share/MattsMovableType/stb/stb.cgi", line 18, in ?
> >    from xml.dom.minidom import parse, Document
> >  File "./xml.py", line 2, in ?
> >    from xml.dom.minidom import parse
> >ImportError: No module named dom.minidom
> 
> I'm pretty sure I had a module dom.minidom before as it is the import
> statement that is raising the exception and it didn't prior to
> installing PyXML, I was previously calling parse() and Document().
> 
> So did I make a mistake installing PyXML? 

This is uncertain. Does this also happen when you invoke Python from
the command line? If so, what happens if you do

import xml
print xml
import xml.dom
print xml.dom
import xml.dom.minidom
print xml.dom.minidom

If not, what happens if you do the same in the CGI script?

Regards,
Martin



From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Wed Jun 18 22:57:28 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:57:28 GMT
Subject: dictionary issue (and maybe PEP ... depending on the answer)
References: <0wBCa.651$ig1.627675@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <sE9Ia.1935$Aa.1575@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

dsavitsk wrote:
> (Python 2.2.1 on FreeBSD 4.7 being used via mod_python 3)
> 
> I have a dictionary at the top of a module that looks like this
> 
> _months = {1: 'January',
>           2: 'February',
>           3: 'March',
>           4: 'April',
>           5: 'May',
>           6: 'June',
>           7: 'July',
>           8: 'August',
>           9: 'September',
>           10: 'October',
>           11: 'November',
>           12: 'December'}
> 
> never mind, for now, that there are proably better ways to do what the 
> dict obviously does.  anyhow, I get a list of the months by doing this
> 
> >>> [_months[i] for i in _months.keys()]
> 
> The issue is, this consistently returns the months in order. I don't see 
> any obvious reason that it does, but I can't get it to fail. So,I am 
> wondering if there is a reason, or is it serendipity.

It's because the hash value of an int (except -1) is itself.  So the
entries are stored in the hash table in order, and thus returned in
order.


-- 
CARL BANKS






From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Jun 19 05:56:37 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:56:37 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <c9%Ha.200753$g92.4077297@news2.tin.it> <uy8zy4vzs.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <pNfIa.206219$g92.4232233@news2.tin.it>

<posted & mailed>

David Abrahams wrote:
   ...
>> Sometimes X might perhaps be of the form "a is of type B", but
>> that's really a very rare and specific case.  Much more often it
>> will be "container c is non-empty", "sequence d is sorted", "either
>> x<y or pred(a[z]) for some x>=z>=y", and so on, and so forth.
> 
> Those assertions are *chock full* of type information:

Rather, they IMPLY what you choose to call "type information" (which
has little to do with the typesystem of, say, C++ or Java), as well
as other information (which isn't sensibly mappable to "type" in any
nontrivial way).  E.g.:

>       the type of c is a container

Rather, "c is a container".  Choosing to express "c is a container"
as "the type of c is the type of a container" is just the kind of
useless, redundant boilerplate that negatively impacts productivity.

And in neither C++ nor Java can you express "c is a container", either
directly or indirectly, except in comments -- the type-systems of
either language (the two most-widespread languages today that use
compiletime typing) just don't match the concepts that you're trying
to smuggle in as "type information" .  In _Haskell_ you might collect
the characteristics that define a type's containerhood as an appropriate
typeclass (*NOT* type!); in Java you're simply out of luck; in C++ I
guess you (you personally, as a template-wizard, but not 99%+ of C++'s
users;-) might possibly define a template that "by convention" (not in
a language-supported way as in Haskell) lets you assert containerhood --
"informally", albeit reasonably effectively (better than a comment...).

In Python one generally identifies (just as informally) a container as
"an object which has a length" (using "length", perhaps a suboptimal
choice of wording, to mean "number of items currently contained") and
simultaneously express both 'c is a container' and 'that container is
not empty' by

    assert len(c)

This will be checked at runtime rather than at compile-time -- but
the concept that there's something utterly precious in being able to
check "function len can be meaningfully called with c as an argument"
prematurely with respect to "the result of the call will be non-0" is
pretty bogus.  Python checks both at once and raises TypeError or
AssertionError if either half of the assertion is invalid, period.

There may be worth in making this notion of "protocol" more formal
(desperately trying to avoid nouns which have been hijacked for many
vaguely related meanings in the past, such as "type", "interface",
"category" -- C++ uses "concept" similarly, I believe, in the generic
parts of the language and library).  I think there is -- PEP 246 being
a (rather defect-laden) early attempt, PyProtocols a rather nicer and
newer one (with enhancements wrt PEP 246 but broadly consonant with it).
But IMHO that worth is connected to the concept of *adapting* an
object to a protocol, far more than on insurances about an object
"already conforming" to a protocol without adaptation (the concept
of conformance can even be modeled as a limit case of that of
adaptation, though that's admittedly silly hairsplitting;-).


> Type declarations don't have to identify concrete types; they can
> identify concepts, constraints, and relationships.

In some theoretical world, perhaps.  In practice, again, that's
bogus.  You can't meaningfully have a type declaration for "an
odd integer not divisible by 3" in C++ nor in Java.  The vague
theoretical possibility that a be-all, end-all future language
would let you capture "constraints and relationships" this way is
being used strictly as a soft-soap for justifying the use of
languages whose actual typesystems are enormously different, and
strongly focused on implementation issues.  I'd be quite willing
to fight against the hypothetical "perfect static typesystem" as
"nearly as useless" if a working prototype of it was presented,
but it's really a waste of time.  Let's talk about the reality of
C++ and Java instead, shall we?  The theoretical problem with
types embedding all sorts of "constraints and relationships" is
that as soon as you try to meaningfully operate on them your
compiler's possibilities to ensure compiletime type safety tend
to disappear (which is why languages with a strong theoretical
basis in type theory eschew that route).  Given type ZT as "odd
integer not divisible by 3", in theory you might infer that the
sum of ZT's can't possibly be a ZT, the product must be, but what
about, say, the division-with-truncation?  And who's going to
draw all the deductions about the various arithmetic operation
restricted to ZT down from Z, etc, so that when the forbidden
prime factors in ZT are 2 and 3 you can draw certain deductions
but when they're 3 and 5 instead you can't any more (the sum of
two of THOSE might still be valid, etc, etc)?


>> Type declarations would have extraordinary "explanatory power" if
>> and only if "a is of type B" was extraordinarily more important than
>> the other kinds of assertions, and it just isn't -- even though, by
>> squinting just right, you may end up seeing it that way by a sort of
>> "Stockholm Syndrome" applied to the constraints your compiler forces
>> upon you.
> 
> Suggesting that I've grown to love my shackles is a little bit
> insulting.  I have done significant programming in Python where I
> didn't have static typing; I've gotten over my initial reactions to
> the lack of static checks and grown comfortable with the language.
> Purely dynamic typing works fine for a while.  I have seen real
> problems develop in my code that static type checking would have
> prevented.

And (e.g.) Robert Martin has not.  Now, one can explain this in
many ways -- perhaps Uncle Bob and you are using different approaches
to developing your programs, and his (test-driven development, these
days) avoids the "real problems" that develop in your code; or perhaps
he's unable to see what you're able to see so clearly.  Any hypothesis
with explanatory power about this cannot fail to be offensive to either
you or him, if one wants to take it as insulting.  Since my experience
matches Uncle Bob's quite closely, and my reflections and musings on
the matter end up supporting this side of the argument just as well as
my practice does, I think I can be justified in expressing my opinion
on the subject.  Human beings are extremely good at rationalizing their
experiences (and their cognitive dissonances): I have experienced this
personally, too.  If it's insulting to say that somebody's exhibiting
a typically human trait about it, then I can give a long list of cases
which would be insulting against myself.  For example, as a fervid Pascal
user I was extremely keen on range-types, declaring all over the place
variables that were "integer from -3 to 17 included" and the like, and
considered this a great boon of the typesystem.  It took quite a while
to realize that these were not in fact statically checkable constraints
except in the most trivial of cases, and that moving to (e.g.) C or C++
and losing the ability to express this "exquisite informational power"
didn't give me any real practical problem and in fact saved me the time
wasted in trying to pinpoint each variable's range in the first place.
A few "assert(x>=-3)" *where it MATTERED* worked far, far better than
some silly type declaration way up there at the start about "x will
never be less than -3" -- the documentation was more accessible to the
reader, the occurrence of checking more explicit and thus obvious.
Etc, etc.


> It's not an illusion that static types help (a lot) with certain
> things.  The type information is at least half of what you've written
> in each of those assertions.  I use runtime assertions, too, though
> often I use type invariants to constrain the state of things --
> because it makes reasoning about my code *much* easier.  An
> ultra-simple case: it's great to be able to use an unsigned type and
> not have to think about asserting x >= 0 everywhere.

I would be ecstatically glad to see a nice fight, no holds barred,
between a proponent of this latest sub-thesis and a designer of
statically typed languages which do NOT support the concept of
"unsigned type".  In Java, "unsigned" means "without a signature"
(thus, a risky applet;-).  But I think that the issue may be taken
as a good example of the above, wider thesis.  *IF* having an "x
that's always >= 0" *WAS* indeed such a precious concept, "makes
reasoning about your code *much* easier", etc etc, then *why* has
nobody ever widened that concept to *FLOATING POINT* types for x?
Where's the "unsigned float" in the next C++ release...?

In practice, as I'm sure you know, unsigned types in C/C++ are
tricky indeed (that's why Java removed them -- they deemed them
too tricky to use reliably by ordinary programmers).  E.g. cfr
http://sandbox.mc.edu/~bennet/cs220/c_code/uns_c.html and the like.
They were born from *IMPLEMENTATION* considerations, historically,
which only apply to integral types.  The "makes reasoning easier"
justification is a post-facto rationalization, belied by the
glaring absence of the same facility where implementation would
not gain, as in floating-point numbers.


>> Types are about implementation
> 
> No, they're about a relationship between an interface and semantics.
> Most people leave out the semantics part when thinking about them,
> though.

In practice, the typesystem of languages such as C++ and Java is
mostly about implementation.  "The semantics" is simply left out
of these languages' typesystems -- relegated to comments (which
might just as well be there in Python or any other language and
aren't going to be compiler-checked anyway).  The famous exception
to this is Eiffel with its notion of contract -- but notice that
contracts are checked, if at all, *AT RUNTIME* -- thus, claiming
they're part of COMPILE-TIME notions of typing is a falsification.

The notion of "type" is kept fuzzy (deliberately or not) so that
when arguing about typing one can freely swing between incompatible
aspects, claiming compile-time checkability on one side while
handwaving about semantics (contracts) that are run-time checks,
claiming "modern notions of types" while in fact talking about
languages such as C++ and Java which support mostly implementation
oriented type issues.


>> and one should "program to an interface, not to an implementation"
>> -- therefore, "a is of type B" is rarely what one SHOULD be focusing
>> on.
> 
> In a modern type system, "a is of type B" mostly expresses an
> interface for a and says nothing about implementation per se.  It does

Is C++'s type system modern?  How does "a is an int" or "a is unsigned"
``say nothing about implementation per se''??!!  "a is of some type
that supports interface X" is very often a RUNTIME notion (expressed
in Java by a "(X)a" cast, in C++ by dynamic_cast), not necessarily a
statically checkable one.  The part that's sure to be statically checked
(because it lets the compiler generate faster code!-) is the *actual*
typing -- the implementation-related part thereof.

> say something about the effects of using that interface, though that
> part is harder to formalize.

Eiffel formalizes it -- with RUNTIME checks, of course:-).  Languages
that don't formalize it in any way cannot sensibly claim to have that
notion in their typesystems, whether the latter are claimed to be
"modern" or not.


> However, with a nod to "practicality beats purity:"
> 
>      People don't usually think in these abstract terms about most of
>      their code, and rigorously documenting code in terms of interface
>      requirements is really difficult, so most people never do it.

This could also be expressed as: rigorously documenting code (in just 
about any terms) has pretty low productivity-returns, compared to less
rigorous and formal documentation that is runtime-checkable (contracts
in Eiffel, assertions in Java/C++/Python).  Quite sensibly, people focus
on programming practices that DO have good productivity returns.

>      It's a poor investment anyway because *most* (not all) Python
>      code is never used generically: common interfaces for polymorphic
>      behavior are generally captured in base classes and a great deal
>      of code is just operating on concrete types anyway.

"Common interfaces for polymorphic behavior" are *almost never*
"captured in base classes" -- "file-like objects" are a typical
example of this, or, if you want a more focused one, consider
"iterable objects".

>      The result is that there are usually no expression of interface
>      requirements at all in a function's interface/docs, where in the
>      *vast* majority of cases a simple (non-generic) type declaration
>      would've done the trick.  [Without the expression of interface
>      requirements, the possibility to use the function generically is
>      lost, for all intents and purposes]

It seems that the quality of documentation for the functions I've
been using in Python is substantially higher than that for those
which YOU have been using.  The lack of *formal*, rigorous docs is
generally not a serious problem; functions that e.g. take a filelike
object argument ARE generally kind enough to mention that fact (as
the filelike interface is so fat, it IS typically underdocumented
what fraction of it is actually in use -- but I don't see any simple
nongeneric type declaration that would help fix this at all).


> So, while I buy "program to an interface" in theory, in practice it
> is only appropriate in a small fraction of code.

On the contrary, I think it's the need to fix specific types that
might be appropriate only very rarely.

>> Of course, some languages blur the important distinction
>> between a type and a typeclass (or, a class and an interface, in
>> Java terms -- C++ just doesn't distinguish them by different
>> concepts
> 
> Nor does most of the type theory I've seen.

Does Haskell count?  typeclasses vs types?

>> so, if you think in C++, _seeing_ the crucial distinction may be
>> hard;-).
> 
> I know what typeclasses and variants are all about.

I'm sure you do, as a general issue.  But the language you're using
to think and work about a specific problem still colors how easy or
hard is it to conceptualize in a certain way wrt another.


>> "e provides such-and-such an interface" IS more often interesting, but,
>> except in Eiffel, the language-supplied concept of "interface" is too
>> weak for the interest to be sustained -- it's little more than the sheer
>> "signature" that you can generally infer easily.  E.g.:
>>
>> my procedure receiving argument x
>>
>>     assert "x satisfies an interface that provides a method Foo which
>>             is callable without arguments"
>>
>>     x.Foo()
>>
>> the ``assert'' (which might just as well be spelled "x satisfies
>> interface Fooable", or, in languages unable to distinguish "being
>> of a type" from "satisfying an interface", "x points to a Fooable")
>> is ridiculously redundant, the worse sort of boilerplate.
> 
> Only if you think that only syntax (and not semantics) count.  It's
> not just important that you can "Foo()" x, but that Fooing it means
> what you think it does.

But, to repeat, "the language-supplied concept of "interface" is too
weak" to ensure this, except perhaps by contracts (runtime checks) in
Eiffel.  So, the static type checking does *NOT* help at all here.

What the compiler can check for you is ONLY that x provides a
method Foo callable without arguments -- the "signature" part of
things, which Python checks at runtime instead.  Whether Foo writes
useful information to disk or sends a letter of insults to your
cousin is way beyond the compiler's ability to determine;-).


>> Many, _many_ type declarations are just like that, particularly if
>> one follows a nice programming style of many short
>> functions/methods.  At least in C++ you may often express the
>> equivalent of
>>
>> "just call x.Foo()!"
>>
>> as
>>
>> template <type T>
>> void myprocedure(T& x)
>> {
>>     x.Foo();
>> }
> 
> In most cases it's evil to do this without a rigorous concept
> definition (type constraint) for T in the documentation.  Pretty much
> all principled template code (other than special cases like the lambda
> library which are really just for forwarding syntax) does this, and
> it's generally acknowledged as a weakness in C++ that there's no way
> to express the type constraints in code.
> 
>> where you're basically having to spend a substantial amount of
>> "semantics-free boilerplate" to tell the compiler and the reader
>> "x is of some type T"
> 
> Where are you claiming the expression of the type of x is in the code
> above?  I don't see it.

the "(T& x)" part says "x is a reference to the type which we'll call T
here", i.e. "x is of some type T".

The concepts that it's better to add comments to explain what is going
on is quite commendable -- but just as applicable in any language, of
course, and just-as-of-course the compiler cannot check them anyway (as
you put it recently, they can go out of date).  There's no distinction
here between statically-typed and dynamically-typed languages, and thus
it's distracting and irrelevant to a comparison of the two categories.

As my main thesis is that the constraints that really matter can hardly
ever be expressed as statically checkable type constraints, the "generally
acknowledged weakness of C++" is (if a weakness at all) common to all
alternatives.  E.g., the Java alternative where a Fooable interface is
defined and method myprocedure receives a "Fooable x" argument is just
as semantics-free -- comments and/or other forms of doc will be around,
sure, but they're not "compile-time statically checkable" anyway, and
may just as well be around in any language.


>> (surprise, surprise; I'm sure this has huge explanatory power,
>> doesn't it -- otherwise the assumption would have been that x was of
>> no type at all...?)
> 
> This kind of sneering only makes me doubt the strength of your
> argument even more.  I know you're a smart guy; I ask you to treat my
> position with the same respect with which I treat yours.

If you're familiar at all with my writing style, you know I always
jest -- generally "with a straight face" a la Buster Keaton -- when
I come upon jestworthy sub-issues (and not always only then).  If you
can only debate in a sombre tone, then I can but suggest we drop this
(not a big loss, to be sure -- these debates have been held a zillion
times and have never convinced anybody of anything -- and besides, I'm
about to leave for a month's worth of business trips -- pypy sprint,
Europython, OSCON, ... -- so this debate can't continue anyway).


>> while letting them both shrewdly infer that type T, whatever it
>> might be, had better provide a method Foo that is callable without
>> arguments (e.g. just the same as the Python case, natch).
> 
> Only if you consider the implementation of myprocedure to be its
> documentation.

Documentation is comments, docstrings, and other venues yet, which
are not statically compile-time checkable and are pretty irrelevant
to the debate about the worth of such checks, quite obviously.  The
"meat", the part that doesn't "go out of date", is what can be
"checked" at compile- or run-time, and is language-relevant.


>> You do get the "error diagnostics 2 seconds earlier" (while compiling
>> in preparation to running unit-tests, rather than while actually
>> running the unit-tests) if and when you somewhere erroneously call
>> myprocedure with an argument that *doesn't* provide the method Foo
>> with the required signature.  But, how can it surprise you if Robert
>> Martin claims (and you've quoted me quoting him as if I was the
>> original source of the assertion, in earlier posts)
> 
> Hey, sorry, I just let Gnus do its job.  If the quote attributions
> were messed up then someone messed them up before me.

Nope, you (not Gnus) just cut out the attribution of the quote, which
was on a separate line from the snippet you picked out of the quote.


>> that this just isn't an issue...?
> 
> It doesn't surprise me in the least that some people in the Python
> community claim that their way is unambiguously superior.  It's been

Is "Uncle Bob" Robert Martin "in the Python community"?  His books
all use C++ and Java, I believe, as does the great mass of his
articles, and I believe the journal for which he was the editor was
titled "C++ Report", not "Python Report", wasn't it?

So, I surmise that (probably subconsciously) you're "relegating"
Robert Martin to the role of a "person in the Python community" just
so you can AVOID "being surprised" at his claims (which are about
dynamic typing in general -- he mentions Ruby and I think Smalltalk
as well as Python) -- perhaps for the same reason you cut out the
little detail that I was quoting him...?-)

> going on for years.  I wanted to believe that, too.  My experience
> contradicts that idea, unfortunately.

Have you given TDD a chance?  Beck's new book on TDD by example is
excellent -- and Beck is another person I would hardly class as "in
the Python community" (he's quite scathing in criticizing explicit
"self" -- rather a lithmus test in this matter;-).  Martin's own
latest book about agile development is more general but may be more
directly applicable to C++ (Beck uses Java and Python in his book's
examples -- not that it matters all that much, but still...).

 
>> If the compilation takes 3 seconds, then getting the error
>> diagnostics 2 seconds earlier is still a loss of time, not a gain,
>> compared to just running the tests w/o any compilation;-)...
> 
> Comprehensive test suites can't always run in a few seconds (the same
> applies to compilations, but I digress).  In a lot of the work I've

Say 3 minutes and 2 minutes, then -- as long as the ratio stays
the same the unit of measure doesn't matter:-)

> done, testing takes substantially longer, unavoidably.  A great deal
> of this work is exactly the sort of thing I like to use Python for, in
> fact (but not because of the lack of type declarations).  If
> compilation is reasonably fast and I have been reasonably
> conscientious about my type invariants, though, I *can* detect many
> errors with a static type system.

But compilation need not be fast, as you just "digressed" yourself;-).
And unit-tests need not be slow -- surely not a subset of unit-tests
whose job is only catching obvious bloomers (I'm probably a heretic
within the "test-driven community" by liking the idea of several
'layers' of unit-tests -- so far I've not gone beyond two -- but,
it's now ME who's digressing;-).

> But more importantly, I can come back to my code months later and
> still figure out what's going on, or work with someone else's code
> without losing my way.  Isn't that why we're all using Python instead
> of Perl?

Having the information that "x is an int" stated out like that
rather than (say) implicitly where it matters is hardly crucial
to "figuring out what's going on".  And having the compiler
statically test that fact, rather than testing it by a small core
of unit-tests that can also check out several other crucial aspects
not expressible in static-typing terms, is even less important.


>> I do, at some level, want a language where I CAN (*not* MUST) make
>> assertions about what I know to be true at certain points:
>> 1. to help the reader in a way that won't go out of date (the assert
>>    statement does that pretty well in most cases)
>> 2. to get the compiler to to extra checks & debugging for me (ditto)
>> 3. to let the compiler in optimizing mode deduce/infer whatever it
>>    wants from the assertions and optimize accordingly (and assert is
>>    no use here, at least as currently present in C, C++, Python)
> 
> Those are all the same things I want, and for the same reasons.  What
> are we arguing about again?

A. about CAN vs MUST -- I'd rather not have these possibilities at
   all, than be FORCED to use them even where I judge their impact
   on my productivity would be negative (forcing me to waste my
   time, and the code reader's attention, on reams of boilerplate)

B. about the importance of checks occurring at compile-time vs run-time,
   which I think is miniscule and NOT worth distorting the language
   in any way [note that my point 2 would be perfectly well satisfied
   if what the compiler did in most cases was inserting error-checking
   code to be executed at runtime, cfr again Eiffel contracts]

C. about whether "x belongs to type A" is a sensible way to express
   most important assertions for purposes of 1/2/3 -- I claim it isn't,
   you claim it is -- partly based on subtle confusions about "belong
   to type" MEANS (in type-theory vs programming-practice e.g. in C++)

as well as debating-style (sombre vs jestful), Robert Martin's role
as a member of the "Python community", whether it's reasonable at all
to cut out a quote's attribution, and sundry minor tangential points.


>> But even if and when I get such a language I strongly doubt most of
>> my assertions will be similar to "type declarations" anyway...
> 
> Oh, there it is.  Well, if the language has a weak notion of type,
> then you're probably right.

I claim no language can possibly have a notion of "statically checkable
compile-time type" that would make me "probably wrong" in this respect.
Perhaps a small number of somewhat-trivial issues, conceptually only
runtime checkable, might give rise to earlier diagnostics thanks to
some constant-propagation and a very smart compiler indeed, e.g, one
able to deduce that:

    x = 3
    y = x*k
    z = y/3
    assert z > k

will always inevitably cause the assertion to fail.  I think (but
cannot be sure) that the importance of such "optimization of checks"
is rather minor -- that most interesting checks used and useful in
practical programming don't yield any substantial dividend from such
optimization attempts.  And I certainly don't want to use a language
distorted to facilitate such optimizations at the cost of any of
the important dimensions, all connected to programmer productivity...


Alex




From bh at intevation.de  Tue Jun 10 14:24:36 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 20:24:36 +0200
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
References: <mailman.1055139135.30925.python-list@python.org> <6qptlnux3w.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055177065.4464.python-list@python.org> <6qfzmjumq7.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055185158.5625.python-list@python.org> <6qbrx7uh2u.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055197158.4087.python-list@python.org> <6q3cii2ude.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055258495.22269.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6qn0gp23kr.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:

> Quoth Bernhard Herzog:
>   [...]
> > Yes, but Python doesn't issue warnings about it. Actually, issuing
> > deprecation warnings for exc_traceback and friends might be a good idea.
> > The alternative has been available since 1.5 and it is a potential
> > source of bugs. It would be far less controversial than the proposed
> > syntax change for the raise statement, I think.
> 
> I agree entirely, but I don't see how such warnings could be
> implemented.  How can you hook into access of specific globals?

exc_* are not globals, they're attributes of the sys module.

What you could do, I think, is turn sys into an instance of a subclass
of module and make exc_traceback and friends properties in that new
subclass whose get functions simply return the appropriate value from
sys.exc_info(). That would actually solve the bug wrt. threading and the
get function could also issue a warning.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Mon Jun 23 11:09:58 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:09:58 -0400
Subject: ASP Keybaord Interrupt error
Message-ID: <CGECIJPNNHIFAJKHOLMAIEFNECAA.sholden@holdenweb.com>

I'm mailing the list in the hope that somebody has coem up with a
solution to the occasional spurious "Keyboard Interrupt" exception that
gets raised in the ASP environment. It's a little awkward to explain to
my client why his COM server is failing this way, and the logic of the
application makes it difficult to trap the exception and repeat what
we've done.

I can't find anything with Google that makes it look like this problem
is still being addressed.

regards
--
Steve Holden                                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/







From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 23 20:31:24 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 00:31:24 GMT
Subject: division
References: <f2sJa.19621$pK2.28535@news.indigo.ie> <slrnbfcp0s.gfb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <yLtJa.19625$pK2.28527@news.indigo.ie> <okuJa.1035$Fe3.161376@news20.bellglobal.com> <xeIJa.19712$pK2.28637@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <bd864s$e2f$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

>
> That works great for simple 2 number ones
>
> txt = pattern.sub(replaceint, "4/3")
> eval(txt)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "<string>", line 0, in ?
>   File "<stdin>", line 6, in __div__
> __main__.ExactDivisionError: exact division only
>
>
> bit if the user types something more complex like
> >>> txt = pattern.sub(replaceint, "((4 * 5) -2) / 5  ")
> >>> eval(txt)
> 3
>
> it doesnt raise an exception even though im dividing
> 18 / 5 which doesnt go evenly .
>

Adding the following method to the myint class solves this issue:

     def __rdiv__(self, other):
            return self.__div__(other)


import re

class ExactDivisionError(Exception):
     pass

class myint(int):
     def __div__(self, other):
         "does exact division only"
         quotient, remainder = divmod(self, other)
         if remainder:
             raise ExactDivisionError, "exact division only"
         return quotient

     def __rdiv__(self, other):
        return self.__div__(other)


def replaceint(match):
     "substitues 'myint(integer)' for each matched integer"
     return 'myint(%s)'% match.string[match.start():match.end()]



 # some testing...
pattern = re.compile(r'\d+')        # matches integers
txt = '((4 * 5) -2) / 5'
txt = pattern.sub(replaceint, txt)
print txt        # 'myint(2) + myint(22)/myint(5)'

try:
     result = eval(txt)        # this will raise an exception for 'txt'
     print result
except ExactDivisionError:
     print "ExactDivisionError"


#OUTPUT
# ((myint(4) * myint(5)) -myint(2)) / myint(5)
# ExactDivisionError








From mike at bindkey.com  Thu Jun 12 18:57:11 2003
From: mike at bindkey.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:57:11 -0700
Subject: Glue code
References: <2996386.1055452530@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <bcb0bc$q6o$1@main.gmane.org>

"DB_RobertP" <member31018 at dbforums.com> wrote in message
> What systems do people use to easily make C/C++ code visible to Python?
> I'm currently checking out Swig, but I've heard others mentioned. If

Take a look at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/IntegratingPythonWithOtherLanguages

> anyone has any experience with these systems, could you recommend one to
> look into? Also, any other general pointers when trying to extend C/C++
> code to python sctipts would be greatly appreciated.

In simple cases you can get your extension module to work in minutes.
Fine-tuning it, however, can take weeks and depends on os, compiler version
etc.
Generally it not so much depends on extension system you choose.

So feel free to try several to get the taste. You probably end up, as I did,
with favorites for the task in hand.
You are welcome in several mailing lists devoted to each tool:
swig: http://mailman.cs.uchicago.edu/mailman/listinfo/swig
boost.python: http://www.boost.org/more/mailing_lists.htm#cplussig
Pyrex: http://lists.copyleft.no/mailman/listinfo/pyrex
ctypes: http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ctypes-users
weave: http://www.scipy.org/site_content/MailList

Good luck and have fun!
Mike







From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Jun  8 05:46:37 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 11:46:37 +0200
Subject: Python regular expression question
In-Reply-To: <3ee30318$0$31508$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
References: <3ee30318$0$31508$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <20030608094637.GB2522@nl.linux.org>

DJ wrote:
> I cant figure out a re that matches a string in a sentance.
> The string can be anywhere in the sentance
> 
> eg
> 
> "dog"
> 
> I walked my dog today

You don't need re's!

You can simply do:

line.index("dog")
http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/string-methods.html

Or, with Python 2.3, even more simple:

"dog" in line
http://www.python.org/doc/2.3b1/whatsnew/node17.html

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
183. If a man give his daughter by a concubine a dowry, and a husband,
and a deed; if then her father die, she shall receive no portion from the
paternal estate.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From ed at membled.com  Mon Jun  9 17:08:21 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 22:08:21 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1055165117.25608.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l1he6zdkmy.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> writes:

>Having lambdas work the SAME way as all of the other places that
>allow expressions, is a great simplification.

In the language definition, yes I agree.  By 'a simple rule' I meant
more one that is simple and obvious to pick up, or simple to explain
(and not just to explain 'it is how it is', but to explain why).

It would help, perhaps, if lambda syntax didn't use the colon.  Most
other places in the language that have ': followed by some stuff'
expect a block of code, that is, a suite of one or more statements.
If you see the two code examples

    def f(x):
        print x

    g = lambda x: sys.stdout.write(x)

and then from that try to generalize to find your own usages of def
and of lambda, you will surely slip up.  If you start off by looking
at the language definition and familiarizing yourself with places
where a statement may appear and places that require an expression,
then lambda may seem obvious; but many people learn new languages
inductively, looking at examples and trying to work out rules as they
go along.  If you do this it is quite a surprise to learn of lambda's
different behaviour.

If lambda didn't have that colon, there wouldn't be such a misleading
visual similarity.

(Hmm maybe a different syntax would be to abolish the 'lambda' and the
parameter list and just to mark the parameter itself specially.
Choose a special name like _ as a placeholder; then

    f = print _
    f(5)

This would also do what one person suggested - prohibit nested lambda
functions.  Anyway, back in the real world:)

>>I am just asking, why is it that the body of an anonymous function
>>cannot contain statements?

>So you see, separating statements and expressions is a design GOAL of
>Python, one in keeping with its emphasis on readability over
>programming "purity", and even (occasionally) over power. In this
>case, lambdas are expressions, and thus can be contained by arbitrary
>expressions in arbitrarily deep nestings. Therefore, it is IMPORTANT
>that they not be permitted to contain statements.

(I have snipped some quoted paragraphs, so if you're reading only
this reply, view the earlier article in your newsreader as well.)

Your argument seems to concern human readability - a reader can
quickly find which block of code a particular construct is in.  But
myself I do not see how a deeply nested 'lambda x: print x' would be
any harder for a human to follow and disentangle than a deeply nested
'lambda x: x + 1' or 'lambda x: sys.stdout.write(x)'.  Surely the
arguments against permitting simple statements inside lambda also
argue against allowing method calls inside expressions?

>Fortunately, that's not necessary. If we say that lambdas may contain
>expressions, then they'll work fine for things like "lambda x: x +
>2", and "lambda x, y: x % (y,)", which is about the level of
>complexity that's appropriate before the function is significant
>enough to deserve a name of its own.

I think that there are yet some simple functions like

    lambda x: assert(x > 0)

which do not need to have a name of their own; however, this is a
matter of taste.  I agree that it can't get much more complicated than
that before a lambda definition would definitely become unwieldy - in
particular a multi-line definition is too much.

>Does the above help?

I appreciate arguments for readability but I'm not sure that the
readability of Python is quite so tightly bound up with the
statement/expression distinction as you claim.  If, for example,
assert(x) were made into an expression rather than a statement, or at
least were allowed to appear inside expressions, I don't think this
would negatively affect the readability of the language.  So it is
with allowing one-line statements inside lambda.

>There's also the syntax problem (no good syntax for allowing it),

Yes this is a much more convincing reason (for me, anyway).

>Ed... please note that we're not trying to attack you here. There are
>good reasons why lambda isn't more powerful than it is, and someone
>should explain them someplace. Hopefully, we're getting somewhere on
>it in this thread.

Yes, once you get over the initial wall of 'lambda is an expression
and so could not possibly contain a statement' and start to dig into
the reasons _why_ this is the case.  It may well turn out that such a
viewpoint is right, but not simply because of its idelogical purity.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From terry at wayforward.net  Sun Jun 22 13:19:21 2003
From: terry at wayforward.net (Terence Way)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:19:21 -0400
Subject: ANN: Design By Contract for Python 1.0 beta 3
Message-ID: <A9A3D2A8-A4D5-11D7-8DF6-00039344A0EC@wayforward.net>

Announcing Design By Contract for Python 1.0 beta 3
(Changes since last announcement at end of this email)

Design by Contract is familiar to anyone who has spent time with the
Eiffel programming language.  This implementation is a cross between
full Eiffel-style contracts and the doctest module.

Contracts are high-level assertions that are part of the program's
documentation.  Modules and classes have invariants, expressions that
must be true at the start and end of every public function or method
call.  Methods and functions have pre-conditions, expressions that must
be true on entry; and post-conditions, expressions that must be true
on exit.

     http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/

This version supports the full contract feature set:
   * pre: expressions in function and method docstrings;
   * post: expressions in function and method docstrings;
   * inv: expressions in class and module docstrings;
   * post: expressions can access __old__ values and the __return__
     value;
   * pre: expressions are weakened by derived methods; and
   * post: and inv: expressions are tightened by derived classes.

Version 1.0 beta 3 - 21 June 2003
   * Support Jython (possibly Python 2.1)
   * Support Python 2.2 (doesn't have bool, True, False: those are
     added in Python 2.2.1)
   * Partial contract checking - by default in __debug__ mode checks
     all contracts, otherwise only check pre-conditions and invariants
     on entry
   * Can now pass in module names to checkmod()...  This makes it easy
     to enable contracts: just do a contract.checkmod(__name__) at the
     end of a module.

<P><A HREF="http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/">Contract 1.0 
beta3</A> -
Design By Contract for Python.  (21-Jun-03)





From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Jun 23 00:06:18 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:06:18 +1200
Subject: shebang strange thing...
In-Reply-To: <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com>
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <bd5st2$ov2c4$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Van Gale wrote:
>>There's a very subtle bug (feature?) in bash (and maybe other shells?)
>>that will generate this error if the line is terminated with a CR/LF
>>pair instead of just a linefeed.
>
> Yes, it's common to other shells.

It may be the kernel rather than the shell...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jun 26 21:01:00 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:01:00 GMT
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com> <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com> <bdb22c$psllg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EF933AA.C16ADFE5@alcyone.com> <bdcl1d$v43$0@216.39.172.122> <fef0a228.0306261125.62b83713@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <gHMKa.328383$3n5.103835@news2.central.cox.net>

"-" <madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fef0a228.0306261125.62b83713 at posting.google.com...
> bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message
news:<bdcl1d$v43$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> > The CR is what you get when you hit the Enter key, so Apple did the most
direct thing
> > in using that key code as an EOL symbol. Perhaps they thought that was
"cleaner" and
> > that they would lead the way to a cleaner standard way of doing things
when they
> > achieved market dominance ;-)
> >
>
> I think the terminology is not taken from typewriters, but from some
> old printers where you needed both characters to start a new line.
>
The "old printers" you are thinking of were probably KSR or ASR teletypes,
although similar principles apply to older precursors such as the Creed 5B
teletypewriter (which used a 5-bit code and a shift-locking system to extend
the character set). These did, however, possess a moving print head, while
the "carriage" refers to a platen which moved each time a printable key was
struck. The TAB key moved it until the print position hit a tab stop, and
you could set and clear those stops at will.

> CR moved the print head to the beginning of the line and LF moved the
> paper one line. It can't be compared with a typewriter, where the
> [Enter] key did both operations.

What [Enter] key? In a *proper* typewriter the act of ending one line and
starting another was effected by using the "carriage return lever", which
physically moved the platen back to the left margin, and incidentally also
fed the paper through the platen. Most typewriters could be set to feed one,
one-and-a-half or two lines. Remember, in these devices the printing
position was fixed  (no print head) and the paper had to be moved along each
time a character was printed.

> The Microsoft (other operating  systems also had similar EOF)

EOF means end of file, usually. You seem to be a bit confused. Don't worry,
me too.

> way is actually the "correct" way, since
> the "cursor" needs to move down one line and start at the beginning.

Ah, so Microsoft are "correct" because they choose a system that corresponds
to a typewriting device you don't understand and are probably too young to
remember. I see.

> The Unix way is of cource more elegant, because you have a digital
> computer and not some mechanical device. It doesn't matter if it's CR
> or LF, because both characters only does half of the operation. Apple
> should have chosen LF to preserve compatibillity.

For that matter it might just as well have been ESC or any other arbitrary
character value - clearly a single character will suffice to delimit a line.
I fail to see why Apple should have chosen LF to preserve compatibility with
Unix if Microsoft are "correct". But then I'm just a crotchety old fartbot,
and you're just a mad surfer.

mess-with-old-farts-at-your-peril-ly y'rs  - steve
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun 23 15:26:51 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:26:51 -0400
Subject: Toronto-area Python user group meets Tuesday, June 24, 8pm
Message-ID: <mailman.1056397442.10470.clpa-moderators@python.org>

The next meeting of PyGTA, the most excellent Toronto-area user group 
for all things Python, will be at the usual location (519 Church St.
near Wellesley) and time.  See http://web.engcorp.com/pygta/wiki/NextMeeting
for details.

We haven't received confirmation of the hoped-for presentation involving Python-
generated SVG yet, which will likely mean we'll be subjected to a TDDious 
demonstration by Peter Hansen on doing test-driven development with Python, or 
something awful like that.  Maybe we can limit his enthusiasm simply to 
showing how to use PyUnit to write simple unit tests.

Remember, the more people come out to attend, the more likely the discussion
will be interesting enough that we won't have to resort to such awful things!

If you are "more people", plan to attend!  Better yet, bring a friend, or
grab someone off the street on your way there, and introduce him or her 
to Python...

-Peter Hansen, Ian Garmaise, meeting organizers, 
 and the other PyGTA faithful :-)

Note: if you would like a CDROM-equipped laptop and an LCD projector to
be made available for a demonstration, you must email Peter prior to 16:00
on Tuesday.

Note also: the post-meeting sugar-and-caffeine-fest will of course occur 
at Just Desserts, as usual.




From yweng at cs.uoregon.edu  Tue Jun 10 02:53:31 2003
From: yweng at cs.uoregon.edu (Yan Weng)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:53:31 -0700
Subject: Extending Python with C# and vice versa
References: <3EE57A90.7080402@ida.his.se>
Message-ID: <bc3vqe$932$1@pith.uoregon.edu>

That one seems stopped. If I am not worng, it's just an experiement supportd
by MS.

- Yan

"Michael Andersson" <michael at ida.his.se> wrote in message
news:3EE57A90.7080402 at ida.his.se...
> Hi!
> I've heard of a project called Python for .NET that, as I understand it,
> can be used to extend Python with C# code. Has anyone tried this?
>
> Best regards,
> /Michael
>





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 20 04:53:52 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:53:52 +0100
Subject: bug in urllib2/python23 ?
References: <bcue0g$jm8$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3EF2CBA0.148A6A6B@hotmail.com>

Achim Domma wrote:

> the following lines
>
> import urllib2
> urllib2.urlopen('http://fr.allafrica.com/health/newswire')
>
> produce the following backtrace on my computer:
> 
>   File "D:\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 136, in urlopen
>     return _opener.open(url, data)
>   File "D:\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 330, in open
>     '_open', req)
>   File "D:\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 309, in _call_chain
>     result = func(*args)
>   File "D:\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 824, in http_open
>     return self.do_open(httplib.HTTP, req)
>   File "D:\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 818, in do_open
>     return self.parent.error('http', req, fp, code, msg, hdrs)
>   File "D:\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 350, in error
>     result = self._call_chain(*args)
>   File "D:\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 309, in _call_chain
>     result = func(*args)
>   File "D:\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 447, in http_error_302
>     new = self.redirect_request(req, fp, code, msg, headers)
>   File "D:\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 421, in redirect_request
>     if (code in (301, 302, 303, 307) and req.method() in ("GET", "HEAD") or
>   File "D:\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 208, in __getattr__
>     raise AttributeError, attr
> AttributeError: method

You have fallen foul of bug 731116

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470&func=detail&aid=731116

There is a source patch associated with the bug, if you can't wait for a future
release.

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=731153&group_id=5470&atid=305470

> If I add a trailing slash to the url, everything works fine. Looks like a
> bug to me!? Or is there a reason for this behaviour? 

The reason why adding the slash works is as follows.

1. You send the URL "/health/newswire" to "fr.allafrica.com".
2. The server there realises that the URL needs an extra "/" in order to be
valid.
3. It sends you back a 302 - Redirect status code, essentially asking you to
make your request again, with the updated URL, i.e. "/health/newswire/".
4. urllib2 automatically takes care of the redirect for you, i.e. it makes the
second request, unbeknown to you.
5. urllib2 fails, because of bug 731116.

By adding the slash yourself, you are providing a full resolvable URL to the
webserver, so it doesn't send you back a redirect, thus the code that gives rise
to the exception is not executed.

> If yes, how could I
> decide wether I have to add a slash or not?

You can't. The decision of what URLs resolve to is hidden within the origin
server. You have no way of knowing in advance whether or not a request will
result in a redirect or not.

Whoever gave you that URL got it wrong.

If you want to solve the problem without patching your python, I recommend that
you catch the AttributeError exception, and ignore it, e.g.

try
    res = urllib2.urlopen('http://fr.allafrica.com/health/newswire')
except AttributeError:
    pass

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Jun 23 12:49:16 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:49:16 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <3EF6E9A1.74E45E69@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306232034500.2864-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003, Alan Kennedy wrote:

>Paul Boddie wrote:
>
>>> Indeed. The assertion that "7-bit plain text ASCII" is even a
>>> meaningful format is highly dubious, at least when it comes to
>>> understanding the information presented in that format.
>
>Erik Max Francis wrote:
>
>> 7-bit ASCII is pretty clear, it's just ASCII (which only defines the
>> lower 7 bits).
>
>I think we could find our discussion going around in circles here, because one
>person's encoding is another person's format. I think it is appropriate to
>define some terminology for further discussion
>
>Encoding: (Roughly) A mapping from byte values to character glyphs or
>references.
>
>Structure: (Roughly) A sequence of (possibly nested) content areas, with
>embedded character tokens delimiting areas of content, e.g. "\n". It should be
>possible to write a deterministic processor which parses a structure.
>
>Format: A given structure, which may be stored in a file in one or more
>encodings.

OK. When I was talking about plain text, I had in mind that it 
has some proprietary format. For example, I can easily write:

------------------
foo = "123"
bar = "456"
zoo = "la\"lala"
------------------

And it's not very hard to parse that. 
In case of XML I will need something like

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<foo>123</foo><bar>456</bar><zoo>la&quot;lala</zoo>

- not a big deal, but it's harder to parse. And also XML software keeps
changing (or so it seems), and this gives a sense of instability.

XML always gives me a feeling that I do not fully master it (especially it's
DTD part)! And this is after two years of trying to understand it. (Cf: with
Python felt at home after a week or two!)

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi

P.S. Just look at the neighboor thread:
Subject: minidom toxml() not emitting attribute namespace qualifier

> Using Python 2.2.3, with this example code:

[Code elided]

> The output is missing the "myns" namespace qualifier on the "att"
> attribute. Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

That's a bug in minidom.

I reported it back in November 2002, but I wasn't precise enough about version
numbers, so it went unaddressed.

-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From p-abel at t-online.de  Tue Jun 24 01:22:41 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 22:22:41 -0700
Subject: frame scroll problem
References: <3035405.1056406699@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0306232122.6b50d473@posting.google.com>

idriss <member31704 at dbforums.com> wrote in message news:<3035405.1056406699 at dbforums.com>...
> i want to scroll one frame's or canvas 's whole content (it will contain
> other subframes and subframes will contain bitmaps) I couldn't find
> where is my fault. if you can find my fault or have some example codes
> like this please help me thanks from now.....
> 
> 
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> import Image, ImageTk
> 
> 
> root = Tk()
> 
> mainFrame = Canvas(root,width=400, height=420, bg='gray50',relief=RIDGE)
> mainFrame.pack(fill=BOTH,expand=1)
> 
> scroll = Scrollbar(mainFrame)
> scroll.pack(side=RIGHT,expand=1,fill=BOTH)
> 
> mainFrame.configure(xscrollcommand=scroll.set)
> 
> 
> subFrame = Frame(mainFrame,width=200,height=300)
> subFrame.pack(expand=1,fill=BOTH)
> 
> picNo =0
> img = []
> 
> # two picture placed side by side
> imgfile = 'c:\untitled.bmp'
> lbl = Label(subFrame, bd=0)
> lbl.place(anchor=NW)
> masterImg = Image.open(imgfile)
> masterImg.thumbnail((500, 500))
> img.append(ImageTk.PhotoImage(masterImg))
> lbl['image'] = img[picNo]
> picNo = picNo + 1
> lbl.pack(side=LEFT)
> 
> imgfile = 'c:\untitled.bmp'
> lbl = Label(subFrame, bd=0)
> lbl.place(anchor=NW)
> masterImg = Image.open(imgfile)
> masterImg.thumbnail((500, 500))
> img.append(ImageTk.PhotoImage(masterImg))
> lbl['image'] = img[picNo]
> picNo = picNo + 1
> lbl.pack(side=LEFT)
> root.mainloop()

See http://effbot.org/zone/tkinter-autoscrollbar.htm .
There's an example of automatic Scrollbars, which are removed when
not needed. Further more there's described how to scroll a Canvas
widget with subwidgets on it.
Regards
Peter



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jun 17 19:13:35 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:13:35 -0400
Subject: preventing creation of instance
References: <bco6se$frs$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <3EEFA09F.43409D6A@engcorp.com>

Mirko Koenig wrote:
> 
> I have a class with a 'static' list of names to control if every instance
> of the class has a different name.
> 
> class test:
>         names = []
>         def __init__( self, name ):
>                 ...
> 
> Is it possible to chech in init if the given name exists in names and
> then destroy itself. So that it will be not possible to create an
> instance of this class, if the given name is existing.
> 
> adam = test( "adam" ) # should work
> eve = test ( "adam" ) #should then not work. eve should be None.

I believe raising any exception in __init__ is the way to prevent
the creation of the object.  I don't think you can do this with
a technique that returns None, unless you are actually calling
a factory function which internally attempts to create the object
and catches the exception thrown, returning None if it happens.

-Peter



From tchur at optushome.com.au  Mon Jun 23 03:29:47 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:29:47 +1000
Subject: ASCII
Message-ID: <200306230729.h5N7TlX00899@mail011.syd.optusnet.com.au>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20030623/cb9eb2bb/attachment.ksh>

From no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid  Mon Jun 23 21:06:55 2003
From: no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid (Robert Oschler)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:06:55 GMT
Subject: Persist Python objects to a MySQL database?
Message-ID: <PuNJa.4935$Hw.4242219@news2.news.adelphia.net>

I did a Google search (+persist +python +MySQL) and saw a few references to
persisting a Python object (class instance) to a MySQL database, but nothing
extensive.  Is there anything new that does this, hopefully in a relatively
transparent manner?

thx

--
Robert Oschler,
Android Technologies, Inc.
http://www.androidtechnologies.com





From dirk at gerrits.homeip.net  Tue Jun 17 10:12:47 2003
From: dirk at gerrits.homeip.net (Dirk Gerrits)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:12:47 +0200
Subject: "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" in Python?
In-Reply-To: <WdEHa.62$Du1.56@llnews.ll.mit.edu>
References: <a86143fb.0306160718.75cd6216@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055850150.2919.python-list@python.org> <WdEHa.62$Du1.56@llnews.ll.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <bcn7kp$ieq$1@main.gmane.org>

Ronald Legere wrote:
> Hmm, Dirk is quite right about that. But I had thought of doing the later
> chapters as 'scheme in python' rather then python in python. Yeah, it looses
> something of course. Or one could try to come up with some kind
> of 'little python'??  But then you have to learn to do all the
> white space stuff yourself.

Hmm, Scheme in Python, yeah that should be a lot easier. Good idea.

> "Dirk Gerrits" <dirk at gerrits.homeip.net> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1055850150.2919.python-list at python.org...
>  > As Ronald already noted, it could be done for the earlier chapters. But
> 
>>the Python grammar is a lot more complex than Scheme's. I think the
>>evaluators and interpreters of the later chapters would be quite a
>>challenge, and mostlikely many times larger than their Scheme
> > counterparts.

That should have been evaluators and *compilers* of course.

Regards,
Dirk Gerrits






From ngps at netmemetic.com  Sun Jun 29 09:31:07 2003
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 29 Jun 2003 13:31:07 GMT
Subject: Fast CGI Vs Java Application Servers
References: <kAxLa.592$_I3.34571@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3efeb1fc.573830905@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bdmpmr$bqd$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>

According to Alan Gauld <alan.gauld at btinternet.com>:
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 17:01:07 +0800, Charles Handy
> <chppxf1 at NOSPAM_yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> > How does FastCGI compare against java Apps running in java app servers 
> > like TomCat, Sun One, WebLogic and WebSphere?  
> 
> That depends on how your CGI apps are written. 

OP is talking about _FastCGI_, http://www.fastcgi.com/, very loosely like
mod_perl, mod_python, mod_tcl/neowebscript/whatever.


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL



From evan at 4-am.com  Thu Jun 19 11:34:56 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:34:56 -0500
Subject: Alternatives to Python ?
In-Reply-To: <3EF18A03.3050706@netspace.net.au>
References: <3EF18A03.3050706@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <3EF1D820.4080104@4-am.com>

Gary Duncan wrote:
> I can't afford to buy more than one such book from the list of HLLs;
> so what would you suggest ?

I recently read the OCaml tutorials over at http://www.ocaml.org, and it 
stretched my brain a fair bit.  It's syntax was familiar enough not to 
totally confuse me, but several of the concepts were very different from 
C/Python/Perl/Ruby/etc.

Icon, over at http://www.cs.arizona.edu/icon/, is also quite worth 
looking at if you want to broaden your horizons.

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am






From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jun 18 12:35:16 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 16:35:16 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <bcq4c4$lff$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:25:54 -0400, David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote:

>Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
>
>> But this has little to do with the need of 'type declarations'.  I
>> suspect that a statically typed language would also be better off
>> without them, relying on type inferencing instead, a la Haskell (and
>> Haskell's typeclasses to keep the inferencing as wide as feasible),
>> for example.  But I have no research to back this up;-).
>
>I don't have any first-hand experience, but the experience of friends
>of mine who have used Haskell is that it can be exceedingly difficult
>to locate the source of a type error when it does occur, since the
>inference engine may propagate the "wrong" type back much further than
>the source of the error.
>
>Furthermore, if you do everything by inference you lose the
>explanatory power of type declarations.
>
But what does "type" really mean? ISTM that in the static typing world
"type" mostly identifies a type of *representation* -- i.e., things that
have compatible memory layouts. Of course any Python implementation will
have underlying *representations* of its entities, but those are not a
central concern of Python or Python programmers. In fact, UIAM it is a
goal of Python design to enable programmers to forget about concrete
representations as much as possible, except for "foreign" interfacing.

I.e., the "types" of Python are more abstract, and are more about
abstract structure and functional compatibility than underlying
representation. ISTM "static" typing in this world can't be a direct
translation of the old concept, unless you are talking about an interface
to an old-style "statically typed" world, or want to incorporate
an encapsulated chunk of that into python.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jun  2 14:56:11 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 18:56:11 GMT
Subject: ascii tables
References: <mailman.1054224096.17795.python-list@python.org> <3ED6511F.B75B1C10@engcorp.com> <m2n0h5vap0.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <mailman.1054247985.19551.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbg6kb$dif$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 30 May 2003 00:37:46 +0200, Carel Fellinger <carel.fellinger at chello.nl> wrote:

>On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 02:01:47PM -0500, John Hunter wrote:
>...
>> Here is my first pass at a solution, which prints
>> 
>>     Name   | Age | Sex | Weight | Height
>>     ------------------------------------
>>     John   |  35 |  M  |  170.0 |   60.1
>>     ------------------------------------
>>     Miriam |  31 |  F  |  135.0 |   58.2
>>     ------------------------------------
>>     Rahel  |   5 |  F  |   40.0 |   48.2
>>     ------------------------------------
>>     Ava    |   2 |  F  |   25.0 |   30.0
>
>it's old printer wisdom that one should be very reluctant to use lines
>in tables, and indeed I find the following much easier on the eyes:
>
>    Name   : Age : Sex : Weight : Height
>    ------------------------------------
>    John      35    M     170.0     60.1
>    Miriam    31    F     135.0     58.2
>    Rahel      5    F      40.0     48.2
>    Ava        2    F      25.0     30.0
>
Agreed, but IMO this boxed format is not too bad
an alternative (and if you have a font with box
characters it can look pretty nice).

   +--------+-----+-----+--------+--------+
   | Name   | Age | Sex | Weight | Height |
   +--------+-----+-----+--------+--------+
   | John   |  35 |  M  |  170.0 |   60.1 |
   | Miriam |  31 |  F  |  135.0 |   58.2 |
   | Rahel  |   5 |  F  |   40.0 |   48.2 |
   | Ava    |   2 |  F  |   25.0 |   30.0 |
   +--------+-----+-----+--------+--------+
 
>use atleast 3 spaces to seperate columns and you won't need that ugly bar.
>
>
>...
>>     def pad_entry(entry, align, width):
>
>you could also use str's center, ljust and rjust methods.
>
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bh at intevation.de  Sat Jun 21 12:01:20 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 18:01:20 +0200
Subject: unittest and automatically firing off tests
References: <e9o7fvo04c3ocnp352vqbmmhrku30i61h4@4ax.com> <873ci3lk2o.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <6qvfuz773j.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:

> Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org> writes:
> 
> [...snip use of unittest...]
> > Things I don't like about this?  You bet.
> > 
> > 1) Why in the name of all that is holy does unittest.main() throw
> >    regardless of tests passing?
> 
> I guess you mean 'raise', not 'throw'.  Does it?  I don't think it
> does.

It does. More precisely, the runTests method of TestProgram (TestProgram
is effectively unittest.main) calls sys.exit which raises SystemExit.

I think it's done that way to set the return code of the python process
so that in a shell you could use it to determine whether the tests were
executed successfully.

One solution is not use unittest.main when you want to run lots of tests
spread out over many modules. What I've been using for some time is
something like this (assumes that the current directory is the one
holding all the test modules):

    files = os.listdir(os.curdir)
    names = []
    for file in files:
        if file[:4] == "test" and file[-3:] == ".py":
            names.append(file[:-3])

    suite = unittest.defaultTestLoader.loadTestsFromNames(names)
    runner = unittest.TextTestRunner(verbosity = 2)
    result = runner.run(suite)

    sys.exit(not result.wasSuccessful())


   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk  Wed Jun 18 10:53:19 2003
From: newt_e at blueyonder.co.uk (Newt)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:53:19 GMT
Subject: error exiting mainloop in tkinter
References: <MPG.195a731c5ff6fd74989685@news.vogel.pl>
Message-ID: <z1%Ha.22519$iW5.163062908@news-text.cableinet.net>

Whilst not very helpful, it ran fine for me. I had to do a slight amount of
formatting as all the tabs/indentations had been lost in your post. (I'm
running 2.2.1 on XP)

Where abouts did the error occur? Did you get the window up, with a single
button?  Was it a windows error and not a python error? Do any other Python
applications work? Can you close the application using the X button on the
top right of the window?

Newt
"Bobster" <nospam at nospam.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.195a731c5ff6fd74989685 at news.vogel.pl...
> Hi!
>
> I have problem exiting python/tkinter application (Python 2.2.3 + WinXP)
> When I run the self.quit procedure I get windows error:
>
> The instruction at "0x77f7e22a" refernced memory at "0x00000028". The
> memory could not be "read".
>
> Meanwhile all other actions/procedures using tkinter work perfectly.
>
> Bobster
>
>
> Below I enclos a piece of code (taken from a tkinter book) showing the
> problem.
>
> from Tkinter import * # Interface to Tk widgets
>
> class Application(Frame):
> def __init__(self, master=None):
> Frame.__init__(self, master)
> self.grid()
> self.createWidgets()
> def createWidgets(self):
> self.quitButton = Button ( self, text="Quit",
> command=self.quit )
> self.quitButton.grid()
>
> app = Application() # Instantiate the application class
> app.master.title("Sample application")
> app.mainloop() # Wait for events





From nav at adams.patriot.net  Sat Jun  7 09:28:46 2003
From: nav at adams.patriot.net (Nick Vargish)
Date: 07 Jun 2003 09:28:46 -0400
Subject: Postfix/Prefix Operators (++,--)
References: <mailman.1054878191.16140.python-list@python.org> <2VkEa.35580$xd5.1670190@stones.force9.net>
Message-ID: <yyyllwem2y9.fsf@adams.patriot.net>

Zath <zathras_DESP at M_thwackey.com> writes:

>    def pp(self): # Version 1
>       return self
>       self=self+1 # This also needs executing...

def pp(self):
    while True:
        yield self.val
        self.val += 1

With an implicit :^),

Nick

-- 
#include<stdio.h> /* SigMask 0.3 (sig.c) 19990429 PUBLIC DOMAIN "Compile Me" */
int main(c,v)char *v;{return !c?putchar(*v-1)&&main(0,v+ /* Tweaks welcomed. */
1):main(0,"Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAqbusjpu/ofu?\v\1");}  /* build: cc -o sig sig.c */






From Adrien.DiMascio at logilab.fr  Thu Jun 26 09:33:58 2003
From: Adrien.DiMascio at logilab.fr (Adrien Di Mascio)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:33:58 +0200
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
In-Reply-To: <oq7k79f0io.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>
References: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com> <3EF9EF52.8070600@yahoo.com> <3EFA17BC.9060600@mxm.dk> <oq7k79f0io.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>
Message-ID: <20030626133358.GA17389@logilab.fr>

> Your usage of "should" is Interesting :-).  I wonder what it really means;
> either that you did not time it, or that you timed it and found it not to be
> the fastest.  I'm a big fan of the `.append'-based method, but would switch
> to `cStringIO' if it was significantly faster[1].  I guess that both methods
> are roughly O(N), but would suspect the `cStringIO' might have a higher
> start factor, making it less appealing for only a few short strings.  Did
> someone actually timed both methods compared, and got an opinion?
> 

I've a made a quite basic test on these methods :

    def write_thousands_chars(self, char):
        """Writes a 100000 times 'char'
        """
        res = ""
        for index in range(100000):
            res += char
        return res


    def write_thousands_cstringio(self, char):
        """Writes a 100000 times 'char' in a cStringIO
        """
        from cStringIO import StringIO
        res = StringIO()
        for index in range(100000):
            res.write(char)

        return res


    def write_thousands_stringio(self, char):
        """Writes a 100000 times 'char' in a cStringIO
        """
        from StringIO import StringIO
        res = StringIO()
        for index in range(100000):
            res.write(char)

        return res


    def write_thousands_join(self, char):
        """Writes a 100000 times 'char' in a list and joins it
        """
        str_list = []
        for index in range(100000):
            str_list.append(char)

        return ''.join(str_list)

    

Here's the result :

***************  Results  ***************
In <__main__.MyClass instance at 0x8122e54> :
         write_thousands_cstringio (called 1 times):
                 - Called at Thu Jun 26 15:30:36 2003, exec_time =
		 0.177428007126 sec

         write_thousands_chars (called 1 times):
                 - Called at Thu Jun 26 15:30:05 2003, exec_time =
		 29.1778309345 sec

         write_thousands_join (called 1 times):
                 - Called at Thu Jun 26 15:30:36 2003, exec_time =
		 0.16690993309 sec

         write_thousands_stringio (called 1 times):
                 - Called at Thu Jun 26 15:30:35 2003, exec_time =
		 0.979285955429 sec

*****************************************

cStringIO and join give silimar results, but on smaller strings,
the "join()" way seems better.


-- 
Adrien Di Mascio
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr   http://www.logilab.org





From murtaza_hakim at yahoo.com  Tue Jun  3 15:21:22 2003
From: murtaza_hakim at yahoo.com (Murtaza Hakim)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 12:21:22 -0700
Subject: Python2.3 and win32all wmi problems.
Message-ID: <9c9ad528.0306031121.66b71309@posting.google.com>

Hi,
  I downloaded the Python2.3b1 software and the win32all package.  I
am observing that when I try to access the Windows Management
Instrumentation (WMI) classes I get a traceback.  This operation works
fine using Python 2.2.

The code generating the traceback is as follows: :: 
  
c:\nt>c:\Python23\python.exe
Python 2.3b1 (#40, Apr 25 2003, 19:06:24) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import win32com.client
>>> c = win32com.client.GetObject('winmgmts:root/cimv2')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py",
line 73, in
GetObject
    return Moniker(Pathname, clsctx)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py",
line 88, in
Moniker
    moniker, i, bindCtx = pythoncom.MkParseDisplayName(Pathname)
pywintypes.com_error: (-2147221020, 'Invalid syntax', None, None)


Thanks, 
  Murtaza.



From benoit.besse at club-internet.fr  Thu Jun 19 09:48:16 2003
From: benoit.besse at club-internet.fr (Benoit BESSE)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:48:16 +0200
Subject: Binary Header
Message-ID: <3ef1bf20$0$14311$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

How can I translate a list of int into binary. The struct.pack('!B',...)
need only integer.
I want to have a 8 bit value which represent by
V (3 bit) = 1
A (1 bit) = 0
R (1 bit) = 0
T (1 bit) = 0 or 1
E (1 bit) = 0
C (1 bit) = 0
Can I pack (1,0,0,1,0,0) ?
Thanks.

Excusez moi pour mon franglais. A ces francais.





From manuelbastioni at tin.it  Sat Jun  7 13:15:20 2003
From: manuelbastioni at tin.it (Manuel)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 17:15:20 GMT
Subject: Play a short sound...
References: <PnlEa.55289$pR3.1169900@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1054991715.24909.python-list@python.org> <HLmEa.92242$g92.2147986@news2.tin.it> <mailman.1054999754.30716.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <I4pEa.92985$g92.2171956@news2.tin.it>

> No, only windows platforms

:-(

It's strange...no sound libraries under linux??

However, many thanks :-)

Regards,

                 Manuel





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jun 10 08:52:15 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 05:52:15 -0700
Subject: simple, old-style graphic  ?
References: <tg2Fa.16464$Fr5.341330@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306100452.6e550d31@posting.google.com>

"Alessandro de Manzano" <demanzano at playstos.com> wrote in message news:<tg2Fa.16464$Fr5.341330 at tornado.fastwebnet.it>...
> Hello,
> 
> I'ld need a little suggestion :-)
> 
> For educational purposes I'ld find a Python module (Windows platform) to
> draw simple 2D graphic (even 3D if possible, but is not a requirement)
> Like very old Basics, so lines, points, circles, rectangles, colors, simple
> text strings, etc.
> 
For educational purposes, there is always the good old turtle module in
the standard distribution (quite limited, but simple).

                      Michele



From tom1 at launchbird.com  Wed Jun  4 11:15:44 2003
From: tom1 at launchbird.com (Tom Hawkins)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 08:15:44 -0700
Subject: ANN: Confluence -> Python for Hardware Verification
References: <833030c0.0306021505.43d5cdf6@posting.google.com> <bbi8rq$glp$1@sirius.dur.ac.uk> <833030c0.0306031015.5dcebf7a@posting.google.com> <e0d34534.0306040034.41823b66@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <833030c0.0306040715.465b4c78@posting.google.com>

averilog at hotmail.com (Ameet) wrote in message news:<e0d34534.0306040034.41823b66 at posting.google.com>...
> Very informative...can you please direct me to
> documentation/projects/research which uses Confluence. I did find the
> pdf document on the website. Is any additional material available? Is
> Confluence really free??
> Thank you.
> ameet

There are several OpenCore projects based on Confluence;
some have already found their way to implementation:

  http://www.opencores.org/projects/cf_cordic/
  http://www.opencores.org/projects/cf_fft/
  http://www.opencores.org/projects/cf_fp_mul/
  http://www.opencores.org/projects/cf_fir/
  http://www.opencores.org/projects/cf_interleaver/
  http://www.opencores.org/projects/cf_ssp/
  http://www.opencores.org/projects/cf_ldpc/

The documentation (tutorial + examples + reference) covers the whole
language; its 75 pages is an indication of the simplicity of the Confluence.
We believe you don't need a big language to accomplish big designs.

Once you are familiar with the syntax of component definitions,
component instantiations, and a handful of operators, you're 90% there.
We've found experienced RTL designs can pick up the language and
become productive in a matter of hours -- after 3 or 4 days of cf coding
they catch on to the nifty tricks (recursion, first class components)
that make life easy.

Yes, the first license to the Confluence compiler is free -- we
only charge for additional seats.  Because licenses are floating
and our tools are strictly command line, one free compiler goes
a long way -- more than adequate for hobbyists and small design firms.

Regards,
Tom

--
Tom Hawkins
Launchbird Design Systems, Inc.
952-200-3790
tom1 at launchbird.com
http://www.launchbird.com/


> tom1 at launchbird.com (Tom Hawkins) wrote in message news:<833030c0.0306031015.5dcebf7a at posting.google.com>...
> > christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk (Christopher Saunter) wrote in message news:<bbi8rq$glp$1 at sirius.dur.ac.uk>...
> > > Tom Hawkins (tom1 at launchbird.com) wrote:
> > > : Over the weekend we released Confluence 0.4.6: the first
> > > : version to included the new Python model generator.
> > > 
> > > Neato.  I have found Python to be very well suited to removing some of the 
> > > pain of HDLs ;-)  - can you say how long the free trial licences of 
> > > Confluence are likely to last for?
> > > 
> > > ta
> > > cds
> > 
> > Confluence actually originated from a Python based HDL called
> > ParaCore (http://www.dilloneng.com/paracore.html).
> > 
> > The first Confluence seat is free, indefinite, and
> > enables the full compiler -- no size or performance restrictions.
> > Our revenue comes from the medium to larger design firms.
> > 
> > We just got an article in EEdesign.  Check it out:
> > 
> > http://www.eedesign.com/columns/max_bytes/OEG20030529S0070
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Tom
> > 
> > --
> > Tom Hawkins
> > Launchbird Design Systems, Inc.
> > 952-200-3790
> > tom1 at launchbird.com
> > http://www.launchbird.com/
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > : Confluence is a functional programming language for hardware
> > > : and logic design.  Though its syntax is much simpler than
> > > : either Verilog or VHDL, it's semantics enables a level of
> > > : design flexibility beyond the reach of either HDL.
>  
> > > : Til now, Confluence compiled into Verilog and VHDL for
> > > : logic synthesis and cycle-accurate C for high-speed simulation
> > > : and hardware-software co-development.
>  
> > > : With the addition of the Python model generator, hardware
> > > : designers can now use the high-level constructs of our
> > > : favorite language (Python!) to perform functional verification.
>  
> > > : We were very surprised by Python's simulation performance;
> > > : Python simulation of our benchmarks was right on par with
> > > : HDL event-based simulators.  Not bad for a "scripting" language!
>  
> > > : For more info on Confluence:
>  
> > > :   http://www.launchbird.com/
>  
> > > : To see Confluence output, including generated Python models
> > > : visit any of the Confluence projects at:
>  
> > > :   http://www.opencores.org/
>  
> > > : Regards,
> > > : Tom
>  
> > > : --
> > > : Tom Hawkins
> > > : Launchbird Design Systems, Inc.
> > > : 952-200-3790
> > > : tom1 at launchbird.com
> > > : http://www.launchbird.com/



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Thu Jun 26 00:45:24 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:45:24 GMT
Subject: Piping data into Python on the command line - Windows 2000
References: <8847f370.0306251228.2406f86c@posting.google.com> <uadc5uajn.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93A644BAEA762JanC@213.118.38.24>

David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> schreef:

> I don't know if you're saying you have a problem with Komodo, or just
> during your specific tests, but the above case (presuming that you're
> running this from a standard Windows command, cmd.exe) is a bug in
> Windows cmd.exe.  When trying to use I/O redirection and registered
> file extensions to automatically find an executable, the redirection
> doesn't work properly.  If you change this command to:
> 
> dir | python readFromStdin.py
> 
> it should work (replace "python" with the full path to your python.exe
> if it isn't in your path).

I don't know if this is a bug in cmd.exe, but at least command.com on Win9x 
does know nothing about "registered extensions" unless you use the "start" 
command.

dir | start readFromStdin.py

This works but "start" opens a new window that is closed when the script 
exits (you don't get the time to read the output).

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Jun 10 16:58:25 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:58:25 +0200
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <mailman.1055217257.2562.python-list@python.org> <yfsk7buhwas.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <livbevceovhqolcbvnuj6fi3tbv7qnb1ps@4ax.com> <87u1ax3c53.fsf@cassandra.evansnet>
Message-ID: <just-BFEB31.22582510062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <87u1ax3c53.fsf at cassandra.evansnet>,
 Tim Evans <t.evans at paradise.net.nz> wrote:

> Another alternative, that someone brought up last time this discussion
> took place, was:
> 
> 
>     def spam(cls, x, y) becomes classmethod:
>         ...
> 
> I think that 'becomes' quite neatly expressed that the modifiers are
> added later, so the method is defined, and then becomes a class
> method.

The problem I have with most alternate suggestions, is that it's 
specific to the typical examples (classmethod, staticmethod). However, 
it's a _general_ function (and class, as far as I'm concerned) 
post-processing construct, and the keyword (if any) that introduces it 
should be fairly general. I think 'as' isn't all that bad here, but I 
still prefer the list notation.

Just



From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jun 26 05:26:54 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:26:54 -0700
Subject: filedescriptor out of range in select()
References: <bde89s$ef4$1@main.gmane.org> <mailman.1056616363.2840.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EFABC5E.329613C6@alcyone.com>

Andrew Bennetts wrote:

> I'm not very familiar with BSD, asyncore or spambayes, but I think
> "filedescriptor out of range in select()" usually means that the
> process is
> trying to handle too many connections at once -- maybe the sockets
> aren't
> getting closed, or something.

I strongly suspect it means that the file descriptor (or the result of
calling the .fileno method of a socket-like object) passed in one of the
objects is way out of range for being a valid file descriptor number. 
If it were simply bad (i.e., not corresponding to any valid file within
that process but a legal value), the error would be "Bad file
descriptor":

max at oxygen:~% python
Python 2.2.3 (#1, May 31 2003, 21:31:33) 
[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import select
>>> select.select([4], [], [], 0)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
select.error: (9, 'Bad file descriptor')
>>> select.select([10000000], [], [], 0)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: filedescriptor out of range in select()

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Only the ephemeral is of lasting value.
\__/  Ionesco



From evan at 4-am.com  Fri Jun 27 12:14:59 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:14:59 -0500
Subject: Possible project - Python mail proxy to do greylisting, etc.
Message-ID: <bdhqhe$3bh$1@main.gmane.org>

I'm toying with the idea of learning Twisted by writing a simple SMTP 
proxy that only deals with early connection events, before DATA.  It 
would be an MTA-independent way to do greylisting, tarpitting, smarter 
HELO analysis, things like that.

Does anyone know of an existing project like this *in Python*?  (I know 
about GNU SAUCE).

If not, I'll probably start work on MEEPT (Mail Early Event Proxy 
Transport) in a few weeks.

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am






From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Jun  3 21:00:42 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 01:00:42 GMT
Subject: europython wireless?
References: <7ghe77wt32.fsf@pikespeak.metacarta.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93901EA2DC9A2JanC@213.119.4.105>

eichin at metacarta.com schreef:

> Anyone know if there will be 802.11 coverage at EuroPython 2003,

It's not mentioned on their site or on that of the conference centre.
Maybe send them an e-mail.

> or if there are nearby net cafes?

The conference centre is outside the city, so I don't think so.
(But you never know... ask the organisation :)

> Lacking that, is there GPRS (that t-mobile can roam to?)

<http://www.teltarif.de/arch/2003/kw03/s9670.html> says T-Mobile GPRS 
roaming in Belgium is available through Mobistar, so that shouldn't be a 
problem.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From dwblas at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 16 20:35:16 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (DavidW Blaschke)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:35:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: time module: round tripping
Message-ID: <20030617003516.94735.qmail@web21603.mail.yahoo.com>

Try the programs at this link.  They may be of some
help.  Why not save both forms of time in the text
file and eliminate the conversion?  Every extra step
introduces the possibility of an error at that step. 
If you can avoid it, you can avoid the possible error.

http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/index.phtml/fid/583

D.W.

> --- In python-list at yahoogroups.com, Anoop Aryal
> <aryal at a...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > i'm not sure if this is the right place to post
> it. if it's not, i 
> would 
> > appriciate it if you could point me to the right
> newsgroup.
> > 
> > i had needed to do some time manipulation -- take
> the unix time 
> value, 
> > convert it to localtime (human readable format),
> save it to a text 
> file. 
> > later, read it from the text file, convert it back
> to unix time 
> format 
> > for comparisions. it seems that in this round
> trip, i'm ahead by an 
> > hour. i'm guessing it's got something to do with
> daylight savings. 
> but 
> > here's the code that illustrates the problem:
> > ---------------------------
> > #!/usr/bin/python
> > 
> > import time
> > 
> > thetime = time.time()
> > timeString = time.ctime(thetime)
> > print timeString
> > timeTuple = time.strptime(timeString)
> > print timeTuple
> > thetime2 = time.mktime(timeTuple)
> > timeString2 = time.ctime(thetime2)
> > print timeString2
> > 
> > -----------------------------
> > and here's the output i get:
> > 
> > Mon Jun 16 10:45:50 2003
> > (2003, 6, 16, 10, 45, 50, 0, 167, 0)
> > Mon Jun 16 11:45:50 2003
> > 
> > ----------------------------
> > 
> > i'm on python 2.2.2 on an up2dated rh9.
> > 
> > i've used localtime() etc in place of ctime(). but
> can't figure this 
> one 
> > out. it's good up to the tuple returned by
> strptime(). i would 
> assume 
> > that both mktime() and  ctime() (i think the
> culprit here is 
> mktime()) 
> > would 'do the right thing' without extensive
> parameter passing for 
> this 
> > type of default conversions... it this a bug?
> > 
> > thanks,
> > anoop
> > aryal at a...
> > 
> > -- 
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com




From janeaustine50 at hotmail.com  Tue Jun  3 10:27:21 2003
From: janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 07:27:21 -0700
Subject: How to replace the metaclasses of all the classes imported
Message-ID: <ba1e306f.0306030627.4e88996a@posting.google.com>

I know of import_with_metaclass at 
http://gnosis.cx/download/gnosis/magic/__init__.py but it doesn't help
in my case.

Say, I have a module A which imports module B with an ordinary
"import" statement. With import_with_metaclass I can replace the
metaclasses of all the classes in module A, but not those from module
B.

What I'd like to do is substitute the whole metaclass of the system
without touching all the codes.

Jane



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Jun  6 11:41:56 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:41:56 -0500 
Subject: Postfix/Prefix Operators (++,--)
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304FE790C@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 10:36 AM
> 
> Joshua Marshall wrote:
> > 
> > Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> > ...
> > 
> > > Secondly, in Python assignment actually *rebinds* a name to a new
> > > object, so i = i + 1 creates a new object that is one greater than
> > > the old, and rebinds the name "i" to it (like a pointer).  The old
> > > value, if there are no more references to it, is destroyed.
> > 
> > > This, combined with the fact that these integer objects 
> > > are actually *immutable* (they cannot be changed!) pretty
> > > much prevents any possibility of those operators working the
> > > way you'd expected.
> > 
> > ++/-- can be added to Python, and could act in a way that wouldn't
> > surprise C or Java programmers.  There really isn't any conceptual
> > difference between references to immutabe ints and C/Java primitive
> > ints.
> 
> How would the error generated when the C or Java programmer wrote 
> the following code not surprise him or her?
> 
>   c = 1
>   a = c++
>

There's plenty reasons why these operators will never be added
to Python, the most important is that most programmers think they're
equivalent in any case (decrement and increment, only), that is,
they think that "x++" is the same thing as "++x", which is
totally wrong.

As such, they are a veritable fountain of subtle bugs, which
are tough to diagnose.  These operations are supposed to map to
low-level register gimnastics on different CPUs, so that they
should be used accordingly to the machine's architecture.  So,
depending on the CPU, using these operators on expressions
such as "ch = *(c++)" can be more than twice as slow as "ch = *(++c)",
because of register gimnastics.

So...

They won't be added.  Python is not C, nor is it assembler.
Python commands a totally different style of development than
those other languages, so it's appropriate to use the tools
available.

This isn't a rant, or maybe, it's a tiny, mild, "it's friday
and I'm programming in VB and wish it was Python" kind of rant.
Python's very, very nice, smooth, predictable, consistent,
etc.  Adding these kind of operations to it will break all
that.  Better add intercal's "ON 50% GOTO label" operation,
or "PLEASE GOTO label".

:-/

-gca

--
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From missive at frontiernet.net  Sat Jun 28 11:14:35 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 15:14:35 GMT
Subject: Twisted - extending portforward (simple example)
References: <182bcf76.0306270242.35b2422b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1056770626.1534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbfrc88.1sel.missive@localhost.my.domain>

In article <mailman.1056770626.1534.python-list at python.org>, Andrew Bennetts:
> On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 03:42:20AM -0700, Paul Moore wrote:
>> I hit a problem yesterday with my mail connection. In a desparate
>> attempt to understand what was going on, I wanted to log the
>> connection traffic. After a bit of searching, I found a post on c.l.p
>> from Andrew Bennetts explaining how to run a port forwarder in 2 lines
>> using Twisted.
>> 
>>     $ mktap portforward -p 8000 -h remote -d 20
>>     $ twistd -f portforward.tap
>> 
>> This looked brilliant - all I needed to do was add logging. A quick
>> look (I was *very* short of time, so I couldn't spend long) showed me
>> no obvious way of adding a hook (at least, not one which wouldn't turn
>> the above 2-liner into something more complex, that I didn't have time
>> to work out...) So I gave in, and just added a print statement in the
>> twisted code.
>> 
>> This gave me the results I wanted, but left me wondering (and not
>> getting far in finding out!) how I *should* have done this.
>> 
>> Ideally, I was expecting to be able to write a small .py file,
>> importing and minimally overriding portforward.py, and then be able to
>> do the mktap/twistd thing. But I couldn't see how.
> 
> The easiest way is probably to do this:
> 
> --- loggingpf.py ---

> 
> Unfortunately, it's not very simple, as you can see -- although you only
> need to override two methods (ProxyClient.dataReceived and
> ProxyServer.dataReceived), you need to make four subclasses to tie it all
> together.
> 


I was thinking about this too, and I was wondering if it might be good to
add a "verbosity" switch to either mktap or twistd, along the lines of
what netcat or ssh does.  (ie, include 2 or 3 -v switches for additional
verbosity).  It seems like it would definitely be helpful in certain 
situations.




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Fri Jun 13 02:34:47 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 06:34:47 GMT
Subject: Licenses
References: <mailman.1055448445.2542.python-list@python.org> <slrnbeiemu.js2.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3759308d.0306122120.5213ae92@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbeis41.le3.bignose-hates-spam@zeus.zipworld.com.au>

On 12 Jun 2003 22:20:03 -0700, Rob Renaud wrote:
>  Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> wrote in message news:<slrnbeiemu.js2.bignose-hates-spam at iris.polar.local>...
> > You want to have freedom, but you don't want your users to have
> > freedom?  I find it hard to sympathise with that position.
>
> I can't stand people who try to protect their ability to make money
> from their programs either.

So far in this thread, you're the only one to be mentioning the ability,
or lack thereof, to make money.  The question was about copyright
licensing of source code; money-making seems to be an irrelevant issue
in that context.

-- 
 \      "We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't |
  `\        scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what |
_o__)                                      annoys me."  -- Jack Handey |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From mmaru at attcanada.ca  Tue Jun 24 00:03:06 2003
From: mmaru at attcanada.ca (Mulugeta Maru)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:03:06 -0500
Subject: Python and Jython
References: <WJOJa.386$Gf3.1688@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> <vfferg4uvofdf0@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <YbPJa.388$Gf3.1684@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

My goal is to use it with Java. I am not sure whether Python and Jython are
the same languages.


"Cameron Laird" <claird at lairds.com> wrote in message
news:vfferg4uvofdf0 at corp.supernews.com...
> In article <WJOJa.386$Gf3.1688 at tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,
> Mulugeta Maru <mmaru at attcanada.ca> wrote:
> >My background is Java. I would like to know the difference between Python
> >and Jython. Are they different languages? Should I learn Python first and
> >then Jython? The reason I would like to learn the language is to use it
with
> >Java.
> >
> >I just spend one hour on a Python tutorial - the language is just a thing
of
> >beauty!
> >
> >
>
> Does <URL: http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=7822/ur0303f/ > help?
>
> A reasonable case can be made for learning either Python or Jython first,
> depending on your circumstances.
> -- 
>
> Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
> Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html





From belred1 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 18 01:06:37 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 05:06:37 GMT
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com> <3EEFEF90.4000703@nospam.com>
Message-ID: <xrSHa.976224$OV.1079453@rwcrnsc54>

"Kendear" <kendear at nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3EEFEF90.4000703 at nospam.com...
> Kendear wrote:
> >
> > i hope to define a dictionary this way:
> >
> > lst = """
> > a    1
> > foo  3
> > bar  234
> > joe  321
> > """
> >
> > lst = lst.split()
> >
> > now lst refers to  ['a', '1', 'foo', '3', 'bar', '234', 'joe', '321']
> > i want to do something like
> >
> > dict = {}
> > for key, value in lst:
> >     dict[key] = eval(value)
> >
> >
> > but key, value is not for taking 2
> > items at a time, but take a tuple
> > and unpacking it...
> >
> > is there a way for the "for"
> > to take 2 items at a time?
> >
> > or is there a more common way to define a dictionary
> > without all the punctuation marks?
>
>
> of course, it can be done as
>
> for i in range(0, len(lst), 2):
>      dict[lst[i]] = eval(lst[i+1])
>
> but is a little messy... is there a cleaner way?
>

how about this?
dict(zip(lst[0::2], map(eval, lst[1::2])))

also, i don't think it's a good idea to use dict as a variable name since
dict is a python type.

bryan






From jason at tishler.net  Mon Jun  9 16:41:40 2003
From: jason at tishler.net (Jason Tishler)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 16:41:40 -0400
Subject: Size of Cygwin's distribution
In-Reply-To: <bc2jg9$e6djr$2@ID-99513.news.dfncis.de>
References: <bc28jj$e2b99$1@ID-99513.news.dfncis.de>
 <mailman.1055174226.23126.python-list@python.org>
 <bc2jg9$e6djr$2@ID-99513.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20030609204140.GA860@tishler.net>

Alejo,

On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 01:26:17PM -0500, Alejandro Lopez-Valencia wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:56:06 -0400, Jason Tishler wrote:
> >On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 10:20:36AM -0500, Alejandro L.-V. wrote:
> >> Yet, I do have a little complain: size. Why is so big? There is a
> >> lot
> 
> >OK, submit a patch to remedy the above and I will consider it.  Note
> >that I am just tar-ing up the "make install" and doc trees.
> 
> Hmmm... To cygwin's bug tracker/mailing list? Or to you directly?

I prefer a public mailing list over private email so others can comment,
etc.  IMO, the Cygwin mailing list <cygwin at cygwin.com> is the most
appropriate forum for this discussion.

> >Maybe it's time to split the monolithic package into multiple
> >packages?  However, an important goal to keep in mind is minimizing
> >the "cost" for me to generate these packages.  Any solution must be
> >script-able and fit into my packaging infrastructure.
> 
> Sure, I think what I have in mind can be integrated within your build
> script. I'll  give it a spin.

Thanks!

Jason

-- 
PGP/GPG Key: http://www.tishler.net/jason/pubkey.asc or key servers
Fingerprint: 7A73 1405 7F2B E669 C19D  8784 1AFD E4CC ECF4 8EF6




From dj3000 at iinet.net.au.nospam  Sun Jun  8 05:34:27 2003
From: dj3000 at iinet.net.au.nospam (DJ)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:34:27 +1000
Subject: Python regular expression question 
Message-ID: <3ee30318$0$31508$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>

Hi

I cant figure out a re that matches a string in a sentance.
The string can be anywhere in the sentance

eg

"dog"

I walked my dog today

Cheers
Adam





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jun 27 13:25:25 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 13:25:25 -0400
Subject: How to memoize functions?
References: <mailman.1056726010.29497.python-list@python.org> <roy-95CD9F.12505927062003@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bdhum5$38o$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <roy-95CD9F.12505927062003 at reader1.panix.com>,
Roy Smith  <roy at panix.com> wrote:
>In article <mailman.1056726010.29497.python-list at python.org>,
> sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
>>
>> Or, use a shelf instead of a dictionary.
>
>What's a shelf?

It's a layer on top of a Berkeley database.  See the shelve module docs.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jun  8 23:00:50 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 20:00:50 -0700
Subject: Simple Script to Combine/Seperate Lines of Text
References: <Xns939576449400Bpythonidaeunderscore@203.220.9.230>
Message-ID: <3EE3F862.54575B0@alcyone.com>

Ben Minton wrote:

> I can write this in a flow diagram but don't understand strings enough
> to
> do this.

Iterate over the strings, apply your algorithm, and join the result back
together into a string.  Probably something like

	''.join(map(yourFunction, string1, string2))

>From briefly looking at your string examples, I couldn't tell what
algorithm you wanted yourFunction to implement (but then I didn't try
very hard), so that's up to you.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ What a crime to waste [youth] on children.
\__/  George Bernard Shaw



From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Wed Jun 11 12:52:17 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:52:17 +0200
Subject: Looking for the greatest negative float value
Message-ID: <bc7lvb$gm3$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>

Hi,

I need the same as...

import sys
negmaxint = - sys.maxint -1

... but for float data

any hint ?

Thanks in advance.

--Gilles




From gupt_vive at hotmail.com  Wed Jun  4 07:32:22 2003
From: gupt_vive at hotmail.com (vivek kumar)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:02:22 +0530
Subject: Not getting all keys in FieldStorage (Multipart form data)
Message-ID: <Law15-F58TZ14eBa1kg00033edd@hotmail.com>

>From: "Graeme Matthew" <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au>
>To: "vivek kumar" <gupt_vive at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Not getting all keys in FieldStorage (Multipart form data)
>Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:27:23 +1000
>
>Hi vivek
>
>Mate, what happens if you try
>
>if form.has_key('book_image')
>     file = form['book_image'].file

OK, here is my code with which I am trying to load image after trying as you 
suggested..

form=cgi.FieldStorage()
if form.has_key("book_image"):
    loadfile=form["book_image"].file
    #id=form["bookid"].value
    id="1"
    from os.path import splitext
    ext=os.path.splitext(form["book_image"].filename)[1][1:]
    try:
        savefile=open("%s.%s" %(id,ext),"wb")
        savefile.write(loadfile.read())
        savefile.close()
        .....<printing positive response>...
    except Exception,e:
        ....<logging error and negative response>...
        print "Not saved..",str(e)
        pass

>also remember you will need to base 64 encode it i.e binary

May be this is the problem. But I don't know how to do that :-( I have 
searched on the net also but was unable to find any information :-(. Can you 
Please tell me how to set the base encoding??

>Does this help ?

Thanks and Kind Regards
Vivek Kumar

_________________________________________________________________
Race along with NK. The fastest Indian 
http://server1.msn.co.in/sp03/tataracing/index.asp Feel the thrill!





From alf at fayauffre.org  Wed Jun 18 13:37:20 2003
From: alf at fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:37:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Definition of Aspect Oriented Programming
References: <cb7ba330.0306171854.53378bcf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbf18qg.6kf.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>

anson a ?crit :
>     What is aspect oriented programming? I read a little bit about
> AspectJ. It seems to me that its like...some kinda, new syntax that
> ain't related to the original Java language. How do it work in
> general?

You'll get some nice pointers and a python implementation on
http://www.logilab.org/aspects/

Cheers,

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations



From no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid  Tue Jun 10 16:19:09 2003
From: no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid (Robert Oschler)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:19:09 GMT
Subject: Break line across lines (not in '[]' or '{}')?
Message-ID: <13rFa.701$Hw.897715@news2.news.adelphia.net>

I have a Class with a lot of fields in the __slots__ attribute.  Is there a
way to break the line across multiple lines?

Class HasSlots():
    __slots__ = 'one', 'two', 'three'
    ...

I'd like to do:

Class HasSlots():
    __slots__ = 'one', 'two', 'three'
    ...

    but this produces a syntax error.

thx

--



Robert Oschler,
Android Technologies, Inc.
http://www.androidtechnologies.com
- The home of Off-Book! (tm)
The scene memorization tool for Actors and Actresses!






From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Jun 23 03:13:21 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:13:21 -0400
Subject: ASCII
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org>
 <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com>
 <slrnbf8tsd.qc.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
 <m3r85nmoch.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <S0I9+kKkXEMc092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1056253418.8700.python-list@python.org>
 <3EF5A4DA.35168B8A@hotmail.com> <2Kg9+kKkX4KG092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <Riq9+kKkXgqX092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote previously:
|1.  Usenet:  Yes it is true that Usenet messages are 7-bit ASCII.  But
|look at how much parsing and wrapping has to go on in order to make
|8-bit characters (?????) travel safely through the 7-bit transports that
|may be encountered on Usenet.

Indeed.  But being an ignorant American, I hardly ever have the need to
make those 8-bit characters.  Let alone to read all those really
important message I receive that indicate they are multi-byte encoded
using "ks_c_5601-1987" :-).

|One more point:  although .mbox files are textual, most of the world's
|email is stored in MS Outlook binary *.pst files.  Or in some
|proprietary format on (hot|yahoo|*)mail.com servers, and viewed through
|a HTML interface.

The storage issue is kinda peripheral though.  The things that me and
Alan and Martin and the rest WRITE in these discussions is 7-bit ASCII
essays.  I could write these same compositions on an Underwood
typewriter with little extra effort (it would be a bit harder to let
thousands of people read them within minutes that way, but that's not
about the document format itself).

So yeah, my plain ASCII message might get squashed into some *.pst file
format, but the identical words and line breaks themselves are still
encoded.  Likewise, my message might get stored on a FAT, or ReiserFS,
or ext3, or NTFS filesystem, or on an Oracle dedicated partition in an
RDBMS, with various differences in how the bytes are arranged
physically.  It's still the same message.

Yours, Lulu...

--
---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------





From m at moshez.org  Tue Jun  3 05:32:55 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 09:32:55 -0000
Subject: sandboxing python code
In-Reply-To: <fd3e3161.0306030111.39ea5ce6@posting.google.com>
References: <fd3e3161.0306030111.39ea5ce6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030603093255.21693.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On 3 Jun 2003, ben at transversal.com (ben at transversal.com) wrote:

> I've recently (6 months or so) been converted to Python, and so have
> become an avid reader of this newgroup. One thing that has been brought up
> occasionally by other people, but never has really been answered
> satisfactorily is the problem of running untrusted code.

How is the answer "you can't" not satisfactory?

I'll note that even in Java, where a lot of energies and quite a lot
programming hours has been spent on this kind of stuff, it would be hard
to accomplish. IIRC, Java's sandboxing had quite a few bugs itself, and
moreover has limited protection against allocating too much memory (you
can tell the JVM not to let the process allocate over a certain amount,
but not, AFAIK, by sandbox) and against CPU-intensive DoS attacks -- and
that's the best technology.

My suggestion is to try to find a way where you can handle the overhead
for separating the tasks into separate processes, and then use your OS's
sandboxing capabilities. This easily lets you take care of such things
as CPU and memory limitations, and with more advanced operating systems
(like FreeBSD's jails, NSA's SELinux and chroot()) you can achieve more
control. As an extreme measure, you may consider something like
User-Mode-Linux, which gives you (relatively) cheap virtualization of
the operating system.

Of course, you can still use the fact that it is Python on both sides
of the fence by using remote-object protocols to communicate -- such
as Pyro or Twisted's Perspective Broker.

Just like in real life -- if you don't trust someone, don't invite them
into your house and try to keep an eye on them, it's just too hard. Communicate
with them by phone, so that their opportunity to harm you is limited. Of
course, they may shout into your phone, or try to overload your stack
by sending you malformed objects. But it is is much easier to defend against 
these kind of attacks.

Yes, Java and Flash are treated as "code you can run untrusted", but this
is just wrong. It's fairly easy, for example, to crash most browsers with
these, which is a fairly efficient DoS attack :)
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From averilog at hotmail.com  Wed Jun  4 04:34:07 2003
From: averilog at hotmail.com (Ameet)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 01:34:07 -0700
Subject: ANN: Confluence -> Python for Hardware Verification
References: <833030c0.0306021505.43d5cdf6@posting.google.com> <bbi8rq$glp$1@sirius.dur.ac.uk> <833030c0.0306031015.5dcebf7a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e0d34534.0306040034.41823b66@posting.google.com>

Very informative...can you please direct me to
documentation/projects/research which uses Confluence. I did find the
pdf document on the website. Is any additional material available? Is
Confluence really free??
Thank you.
ameet
tom1 at launchbird.com (Tom Hawkins) wrote in message news:<833030c0.0306031015.5dcebf7a at posting.google.com>...
> christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk (Christopher Saunter) wrote in message news:<bbi8rq$glp$1 at sirius.dur.ac.uk>...
> > Tom Hawkins (tom1 at launchbird.com) wrote:
> > : Over the weekend we released Confluence 0.4.6: the first
> > : version to included the new Python model generator.
> > 
> > Neato.  I have found Python to be very well suited to removing some of the 
> > pain of HDLs ;-)  - can you say how long the free trial licences of 
> > Confluence are likely to last for?
> > 
> > ta
> > cds
> 
> Confluence actually originated from a Python based HDL called
> ParaCore (http://www.dilloneng.com/paracore.html).
> 
> The first Confluence seat is free, indefinite, and
> enables the full compiler -- no size or performance restrictions.
> Our revenue comes from the medium to larger design firms.
> 
> We just got an article in EEdesign.  Check it out:
> 
> http://www.eedesign.com/columns/max_bytes/OEG20030529S0070
> 
> Regards,
> Tom
> 
> --
> Tom Hawkins
> Launchbird Design Systems, Inc.
> 952-200-3790
> tom1 at launchbird.com
> http://www.launchbird.com/
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > : Confluence is a functional programming language for hardware
> > : and logic design.  Though its syntax is much simpler than
> > : either Verilog or VHDL, it's semantics enables a level of
> > : design flexibility beyond the reach of either HDL.
>  
> > : Til now, Confluence compiled into Verilog and VHDL for
> > : logic synthesis and cycle-accurate C for high-speed simulation
> > : and hardware-software co-development.
>  
> > : With the addition of the Python model generator, hardware
> > : designers can now use the high-level constructs of our
> > : favorite language (Python!) to perform functional verification.
>  
> > : We were very surprised by Python's simulation performance;
> > : Python simulation of our benchmarks was right on par with
> > : HDL event-based simulators.  Not bad for a "scripting" language!
>  
> > : For more info on Confluence:
>  
> > :   http://www.launchbird.com/
>  
> > : To see Confluence output, including generated Python models
> > : visit any of the Confluence projects at:
>  
> > :   http://www.opencores.org/
>  
> > : Regards,
> > : Tom
>  
> > : --
> > : Tom Hawkins
> > : Launchbird Design Systems, Inc.
> > : 952-200-3790
> > : tom1 at launchbird.com
> > : http://www.launchbird.com/



From sameersahani at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  9 08:01:09 2003
From: sameersahani at yahoo.com (sameer)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 05:01:09 -0700
Subject: can u help me for sloving dbexts using database connectivity in jython scripting
Message-ID: <1812cd68.0306090401.4a8c7570@posting.google.com>

Hii,
i ma trying connectivity mysql with zxjdbc in jython scripting. but i
faced problem that i mentioned below:
>>>from dbexts import dbexts
>>>d = dbexts
>>>d.isql("select * from emp")
Traceback (innermost last):
File "<console>", line1, in ?
TypeError :unbound method isql() must be called with instance as first
argument


plzz help me to slove this above errors.
regards,
sameer



From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Jun 12 02:41:47 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:41:47 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <20030611080239845-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306121031390.4616-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On 11 Jun 2003, Kevin Smith wrote:

>In <3EE67C20.941FCA51 at alcyone.com> Erik Max Francis  wrote:
>> A fair point.  So if you were able to choose any keyword for this task
>> that you wished, which would you choose?
>
>I had considered the word 'using' instead of 'as'.  Someone else in this 
>thread also suggested that.  Then the the following def:
>
>    def foo(self) using classmethod, synchronized(lock):
>        blah, blah, blah
>
>reads as:
>
>    "Define [a function] foo using [the behaviors of] classmethod and 
>synchronized"

If additions to def are to introduced to Python, it will not matter to me much
if they are "as"-based, "using"-based or []-based.

However, I'd liked to see the new syntax to be more uniform, not just 
for def.

For example (please forgive for stupid keywords - I am no expert in
OOP):

class A(type) using [metaclassic]:
  def f(self,y,z) using [classmethod, synchronized(lock)]:
    lalalala

for i in [metaclassic, classmethod, synchronized(lock)]:
  print type(i)


Or even plain code-blocks:

[synchronized(lock2)]:
  print "haha"


Disclaimer: OOP gurus are free to contact me and remind me why Python needs
all those fancy classmethods, etc. If syncronisation is so important, why not
add a new operator to Python? (I think it is no less important than assert,
for example)


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From nico.NoSp at m.tekNico.net  Fri Jun 13 12:30:27 2003
From: nico.NoSp at m.tekNico.net (Nicola Larosa)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:30:27 +0200
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
In-Reply-To: <7h3he6vmpfd.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <mailman.1055276623.31088.python-list@python.org> <7h3he6vmpfd.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <bccu83$l59$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

> I guess I'm not the only person to have typed "import sys" into a bash
> prompt on a system with ImageMagick installed?

I do not dare trying. :^)

Instead, I type "import this" into nay prompt at hand.


-- 
"Principles like "libert?, egalit?, fraternit?" really seem to me
the least common denominator at all latitudes. Religions resist?
Fuck religions."  Vincenzo Matera

Nicola Larosa - nico.NoSp at m.tekNico.net




From steve at ferg.org  Mon Jun  2 13:01:54 2003
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 10:01:54 -0700
Subject: has anyone implemented perl's HTML::Element and related modules for python?
References: <slrnbdffq3.em1.wobh@helium.barsoom>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0306020835.8635a5d@posting.google.com>

You might want to look at the HTMLParser module in the standard library.



From rajarshi at presidency.com  Tue Jun 10 11:18:47 2003
From: rajarshi at presidency.com (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:18:47 -0400
Subject: isFloat: Without Exception-Handling
References: <ama6nt$n6i$06$1@news.t-online.com> <pan.2002.09.18.11.40.50.766802.29524@presidency.com> <%82i9.1366$bh1.943@fe03>
Message-ID: <pan.2002.09.18.13.20.13.322714.29524@presidency.com>

On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:47:40 -0400, Steve Holden wrote:

> "Rajarshi Guha" <rajarshi at presidency.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2002.09.18.11.40.50.766802.29524 at presidency.com...
>> On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:41:47 -0400, Thomas Guettler wrote:
>>
>> > Hi!
>> >
>> > Is there a way to write the following method without using
>> > exceptions?
>> >
>> > def isFloat(string):
>> >      is_float=1
>> >      try:
>> >          float(string)
>> >      except:
>> >          is_float=0
>> >      return is_float
>> >
>> > print isFloat("asdf") # --> 0
>> > print isFloat("0.1")  # --> 1
>>
>>
>> def isFloat(string):
>>   if type(string) == type(1.0):
>>     return 1
>>   else
>>     return 0
>>
>> This should do what you want without exceptions
> 
> I doubt that VERY much. Please test your code before submitting, or
> ensure you note it wasn't tested ...
> 
>>>> def isFloat(s):
> ...   if type(s) == type(1.0):
> ...     return 1
> ...   else:
> ...     return 0
> ...
>>>> isFloat("banana")
> 0
>>>> isFloat("1.2")
> 0

If its called as isFloat(1.2) it works. 
(My idea was that it would be called with variable rather than a literal)




From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Tue Jun 24 03:43:18 2003
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:43:18 +0200
Subject: tkinter urgent help request
References: <3033499.1056382165@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <bd8v1j$vl4$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

idriss wrote:
> i want to scroll one frame's or canvas 's whole content (it will contain
> other subframes and subframes will contain bitmaps) I couldn't find
> where is my fault.  if you can find my fault or have some example codes
> like this please help me thanks from now.....
> 
> 
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> import Image
> 
> 
> root = Tk()
> 
> mainFrame = Canvas(root,width=400, height=420, bg='gray50',relief=RIDGE)
> mainFrame.pack(fill=BOTH,expand=1)
> 
> scroll = Scrollbar(mainFrame)

You need to link the scrollbar to the canvas here. You link the canvas to the 
scrollbar below, but it needs to be done in both ways:

scroll = Scrollbar(mainFrame, command=mainFrame.xview)

> scroll.pack(side=RIGHT,expand=1,fill=BOTH)
> 
> mainFrame.configure(xscrollcommand=scroll.set)
> 
> 
> subFrame = Frame(mainFrame,width=200,height=300)
> subFrame.pack(expand=1,fill=BOTH)
> 
> picNo =0
> img = []
> 
> # two picture placed side by side
> imgfile           = 'c:\untitled.bmp'
> lbl               = Label(subFrame, bd=0)
> lbl.place(anchor=NW)
> masterImg         = Image.open(imgfile)
> masterImg.thumbnail((500, 500))
> img.append(ImageTk.PhotoImage(masterImg))
> lbl['image'] = img[picNo]
> picNo             = picNo + 1
> lbl.pack(side=LEFT)
> 
> imgfile           = 'c:\untitled.bmp'
> lbl          = Label(subFrame, bd=0)
> lbl.place(anchor=NW)
> masterImg         = Image.open(imgfile)
> masterImg.thumbnail((500, 500))
> img.append(ImageTk.PhotoImage(masterImg))
> lbl['image'] = img[picNo]
> picNo             = picNo + 1
> lbl.pack(side=LEFT)
> root.mainloop()

I couldn't test the script since I didn't have the Image module installed, but 
it should work now.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Wed Jun  4 21:41:33 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 01:41:33 GMT
Subject: nntplib body question
References: <879Da.1139848$uT2.175876@news.easynews.com> <m3isrmh3by.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <7xhe7678dk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <E_iDa.1179012$YZ.185060@news.easynews.com> <mailman.1054733225.24859.python-list@python.org> <geoDa.382649$vw6.2444303@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9391259028A29JanC@213.224.134.107>

"Peter Melchart" <peter at melchart.com> schreef:

>> The overview database (xover command) might be able to provide a
>> solution without pounding on the news server too badly.  Simply
>> breaking the connection in the middle is going to leave a nnrpd
>> lingering around.  Are you intending to only do this once in a while,
>> or are were you planning to do this for lots of articles in some sort
>> of scan?
> 
> that's the problem. i would like to do that on a huge basis.
> problem is: i would like to extract the filename of a binary posts.
> and i think there's no other way of doing that but reading the body
> and looking for a "begin 664 name" or "name=..." for yEnc encoded
> post. but if i would read ALL binary posts that would be a little bit
> too much traffic to spend. :(
> but i don't feel fine cutting all connection on every file.

Cutting the connection on your side doesn't cut it server-side.
And most news servers allow only a limited number of simultaneous 
"connections" (most only allow 2-4).

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jun  6 20:12:14 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:12:14 -0500
Subject: Integrating PHP & Python through a light-weight rpc mechanism?
In-Reply-To: <3ee12967$0$134$e4fe514c@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <3ee12967$0$134$e4fe514c@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <16097.11742.498444.180774@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Iwan> XML based mechanisms (SOAP, XML-RPC, ReST) are more easy but offer
    Iwan> their own set of challenges (not the least the overhead of
    Iwan> XML). You would expect that there would be some light-weight RPC
    Iwan> protocol available, with the simplicity of XML-RPC and the
    Iwan> compactness of a binary protocol. 

I doinked around with an RPC protocol based on XMLRPC awhile ago which used
the pickle binary format as the serialization mechanism instead of XML.  You
could try something like that.  You're welcome to the code.  You'll probably
be exchanging basic data types (that is, not class instances), so marshal
might also be an option, and you'd have the benefit that you could adapt the
existing marshal module's code for PHP.

Skip




From j.vanrooij_at_e-quest.nl  Fri Jun 13 11:38:29 2003
From: j.vanrooij_at_e-quest.nl (Joost van Rooij)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:38:29 +0200
Subject: GUI
References: <3EE9E9CE.6020004@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3ee9f044$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

> I heard that it is possible to program GUI's with Python. I have to make
> some simple executable programs with a GUI. They should run on Windows.
> Unfortunately I am not very experienced with Python. That's why I would
> appreciate suggestions for an easy to use software. :-)

GUI programming is very well possible, there are several gui toolkits out
there, all with there own pros and cons. I'll name a few:
Tkinter: (default with Python distro, crossplatform)
WxPython: based on wxWindows(crossplatform, preferred by a lot of people)
pyQT:(crossplatform, but commercial on win32)
MFC:(Only works on win32)

Personally I have great expierences with wxPython, it has a native look and
feel on both Windows en Unix, has truly lots of widgets, is free and fairly
easy to use.

> I know it is bad to ask this in an open source forum, but I am quite
> experienced with VBA. So if there is anything similar in Python, I would
> be happy! :-)

The biggest drawback for GUI designing in Python is the lack of a good
drag&drop designing tool for it. Personally I do it by hand (but I only make
fairly simple dialogs), but boa-constructor is looking really good. But
there is also wxGlade, Pythoncard, wxDesigner (commercial). All of these
tools are very usable but still in alpha stage the last time I looked...





From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Fri Jun 20 07:05:32 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:05:32 +0200
Subject: include files?
References: <3ef1c90f$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <bcuftd$rvu$0@216.39.172.122> <3ef2d8fc$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <bcupq6$n4nl9$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

rgndrp wrote:

> Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
>> On 19 Jun 2003 14:30:39 GMT, "rgndrp" <erased*remove_this*@xs4all.nl>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >hi all,
>> >
>> >I use python for making cgi scripts on a iis/w2k
>> >box and i wanted to know if it is it possible to include files in
>> >python?
>> >like: <!--#include file="file.inc"-->
>> >or something :)
>> >
>> It depends on you context. If you are in a Python source context,
>> execfile has a similar effect to #include. Chances are there are
>> better ways to solve your problem though.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Bengt Richter
> 
> what im trying to do is have a file in which i define some
> global variables and functions such as fonts and background colors and
> debug/database functions. i used to do this is asp with include files.
> any other suggestions, anyone? :)

Does this help you?

main.py:
include variables
if variables.myvar==5:
   print "OK"

variables.py:
myvar=5

 thomas




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Jun  5 01:54:13 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:54:13 +0200
Subject: PIL and py2exe Issues
References: <283adf56.0306041002.4b2d456f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbmqeq$2lr$1@main.gmane.org>

Kevin Dahlhausen wrote:

> Anyone come across the problem of PIL not being able to identify image
> files once it's compiled with py2exe?

google knows... ;-)

> Do I need to manually add some plugins to the setup or something?

PIL scans sys.path for plugins (*ImagePlugin files).  When running under
py2exe (or any other wrapper), you have to import them yourself.  Just
add import statements to your main program for all the formats you need:

    import JpegImagePlugin
    import PngImagePlugin
    import BmpImagePlugin
    import GifImagePlugin
    # etc

(to get a complete list, look in the PIL package directory)

</F>







From jtauber at jtauber.com  Sat Jun 21 14:01:40 2003
From: jtauber at jtauber.com (James Tauber)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:01:40 +0800
Subject: GUI interactive prompt with non-text output
Message-ID: <20030621180140.95B5E35244@www.fastmail.fm>

Is anyone aware of extensions to a GUI interactive prompt (such as that
in IDLE) where the statements executed might be able to produce a
graphical output after the input prompt as well as text (as you would get
if you did a "print").

I'm thinking along the lines of Mathematica, although another useful
mental picture might be a board game where you enter your move at a
prompt and then the board is drawn before giving you another prompt
(which the ability to scroll back to see the boards after each move).

Hopefully I'm describing what I'm after clearly enough.

What I would most like is some sort of library / widget / extension to
IDLE that is fairly generic, but another alternative would be open source
software that does something like this in the specific that I could then
make generic.

I thought I'd check if anyone knew of something like this before
embarking on writing my own.

NOTE: I'm not necessarily tied to it being Tk-based (although that is
what I know). If something exists in PyQt or wxWindows, I'm willing to
use this as an excuse to learn them :-)

James
-- 
  James Tauber
  http://jtauber.com/




From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Jun 18 04:18:31 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:18:31 GMT
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com> <mailman.1055919632.16586.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rfVHa.105923$pR3.2320136@news1.tin.it>

Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:

> On Tuesday 17 June 2003 21:35, Kendear wrote:
>>
>> or is there a more common way to define a dictionary
>> without all the punctuation marks?
> 
>>>> def make_dict(**kwargs):
> ...     return kwargs
> ...
>>>> make_dict(foo=1, bar='sean')
> {'foo': 1, 'bar': 'sean'}
> 
> is the most common form I have seen.  Not sure if it works for you.

In 2.3, you can express this as dict(foo=1, bar='sean') without a
need to define a function for the purpose.  The constraints are the
same, i.e., all keys must be strings, each syntactically a valid
Python identifier (and not a keyword).


Alex




From paul at boddie.net  Mon Jun 23 05:42:49 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 02:42:49 -0700
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org> <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com> <slrnbf8tsd.qc.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <m3r85nmoch.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnbf9fem.1ej5.missive@localhost.my.domain> <m3wuffi1x7.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0306230142.83612c8@posting.google.com>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis) wrote in message news:<m3wuffi1x7.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>...
> 
> But your observation is right in principle: to really understand what
> the "most common text format in history" is, and to allow "7-bit plain
> text ASCII" as a candidate, one would need to specify, in more detail,
> what exactly that is.

Indeed. The assertion that "7-bit plain text ASCII" is even a
meaningful format is highly dubious, at least when it comes to
understanding the information presented in that format. Despite
wishing to avoid "comp.sys.acorn.misc" levels of stating the obvious
for the lack of a more interesting subject to discuss, it is fair to
say that claiming the suitability of that "format" because "there are
a lot of parsers which use it" is analogous to telling a Japanese
person that they only need to know the Latin alphabet to be able to
understand most Western languages.

There are some pretty solid reasons for choosing XML to represent
data. Firstly, the basic aspects of the data are standardised beyond
the character encoding employed - in fact, the "plain ASCII" arguments
frequently neglect or understate the obvious internationalisation
issues that come with rolling your own format, whereas elementary
things such as character encodings *are* covered by the XML standards.
Secondly, the standardisation of how the structure of XML documents is
represented means that one doesn't necessarily need to be concerned
about the mechanics and edge cases of how this is achieved - if one
were to develop one's own syntax, one would need to spend time
debugging the parser and making sure that potential ambiguities have
been removed, whereas all this work has been done for XML already.
Finally, it can often be a distraction to focus on the textual form of
XML documents - the various APIs are arguably the most interesting
part of the whole XML movement, albeit a part which is usually made
possible by the standardisation of the textual representation.

One interesting related exercise is to download an RFC for something
like the iCalendar format and find all the places where the formatting
of the data is explicitly mentioned. Then, consider how much of that
elaboration would be made superfluous if they employed XML instead.

Paul



From newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com  Wed Jun 11 15:19:41 2003
From: newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com (Daniel Fackrell)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:19:41 -0600
Subject: read_until problem under telnetlib
References: <b94c6ea6.0306110847.571d6690@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3ee780cd$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>

dma2 wrote:
> hi, i am having a problem that seems not to have been adressed yet on
> this list
>
> i work on thousands of cisco equipements, and as usual the cisco
> prompt is not consistent across their whole range of equipements and i
> need this kind of code
>
> tn.write ('sh conf\n') #this command print the startup configuration
> on cisco
> try:
>    sh_conf = tn.read_until(["\(enable\)", "#"],5)
> except EOFError :
>    print "telnet interrompu, impossible de lire le sh_conf" + ip
>    unreachable.write("telnet interrompu, impossible de lire le
> sh_conf" + ip + '\n')
>    continue
>
> i used to match a sting like "foo" i had previously sent to the
> equipement but i need a cleaner solution that does not make the cisco
> complain about unknown command
> i want to match 2 differents strings ( ios or catos )
>
> and i get this message
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Python22\script\telnet-python-2.py", line 265, in ?
>     sh_ver = tn.read_until([ "\(enable\)", "#" ],2)
>   File "C:\Python22\lib\telnetlib.py", line 284, in read_until
>     i = self.cookedq.find(match)
> TypeError: expected a character buffer object
>
> i use this line elsewhere and it works
>
> prompt5 = tn.expect (["\(enable\)","#"],2)
>
> expect is supposed to accept multiple string or compile regexp
> but i can't get it to work
> any help welcome
> thanks

You are using tn.read_until() where you're getting the traceback, and
tn.expect() where you're not.  I suspect you intended tn.expect() in both
places, as read_until() takes a string-like object (Maybe "character buffer"
in the error could be replaced with something clearer?) as its first
argument instead of a list of regular expressions.

See: http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/telnet-objects.html

--
Daniel Fackrell (newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com)
When we attempt the impossible, we can experience true growth.





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jun  5 20:41:03 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:41:03 -0400
Subject: id(a) == id(b) and a is not b --> bug?
References: <mailman.1054855286.16163.python-list@python.org> <3EDFDDBC.673E0F25@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <vqGdnXQrK_C-fkKjXTWcpA@comcast.com>

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:3EDFDDBC.673E0F25 at alcyone.com...
> Gerrit Holl wrote:
>
> > The `is' operator compares the identity of two objects; the id()
> > function returns an integer representing its identity
> >
> > This would mean that "id(a) == id(b)" is the same as "a is b".
> ...
> > $ python meta.py
> > id's equal => True
> > same object => False
> >
> > Is this a bug? It is true both for Python 2.3b1+ and Python 2.2.
>
> Weird as it seems, it happens in some cases where objects are
> dynamically generated by the code you write, whether it looks like
> you're dynamically generating objects or not.  You can see similar
> things with plain old methods:
>
> >>> class C:
> ...  def m(self): pass
> ...
> >>> c = C()
> >>> c.m is c.m
> 0
> >>> id(c.m) == id(c.m)
> 1

Even simpler example with plain old builtins (with same explanation):
>>> id([]) == id([])
1
>>> [] is []
0

> It's happening because accessing a method dynamically creates an
unique
> object and goes away when you're finished with it.  So when an
> expression needs both at the same time (c.m is c.m), two unique
objects
> are created, but when an expression doesn't need both at the same
time
> (id(c.m) == id(c.m)), an object gets created with an ID, is
destroyed,
> and then a second object is created with the same ID (since the last
one
> just got reclaimed) and their IDs compare equal.  Weird, huh?  (It
> surprised me when I first saw it, too.)

I was fooled too until I realised that ids 'unique' is only guaranteed
at any moment of time.

Terry J. Reedy





From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Fri Jun 27 01:15:51 2003
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (Me Mine)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:15:51 -0400
Subject: win32ui screen capture
References: <o43nfvsc8r4q934p709l1g3thtoube37qn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bnknfvopjv4ih5t6t7ba47ib6s6f37esvc@4ax.com>

Hi again,

ok, so now I'm closer.  I can create a compatible memory dc and a new
bitmap, which is always black is created.  But I can't figure out how
to BitBlt to the memory DC from the window DC.  The line is commented
out below.  Also, depending on what wndow I select I get a windows
popup error titled python.exe Application error

The instruction at 0x77fcb836 referenced memory at 0xfffffff8.  The
memory could not be read.  click on OK to terminate the program



import win32gui
import win32ui
from wxPython.wx import *

numWindows = 0
windows = []
winDict = {}
windowsText=[]
inc = 0

def _MyCallback( hwnd, extra ):
	extra.append(hwnd)


win32gui.EnumWindows(_MyCallback, windows)
for i in windows:
	if win32gui.IsWindowVisible(i): 
		if win32gui.IsWindowVisible:
			windowsText.append(i)
			winDict[numWindows] = i
			numWindows +=1
					
	
	

print "Please select a window to capture"
for window in windowsText:
		windowText = win32gui.GetWindowText(window)
		print inc, windowText
		inc += 1

selection = input() 
print win32gui.GetWindowText(winDict[selection])
myHdc = win32gui.GetWindowDC(winDict[selection])
win32gui.SetForegroundWindow(winDict[selection])
win_sz = win32gui.GetClientRect(winDict[selection])
myDC = win32ui.CreateDC()
myMemDC = myDC.CreateCompatibleDC(myHdc)
#myMemDC.BitBlt((0,0), (win_sz[2], win_sz[3]), myHdc, (0,0), 204)
myBitMap = win32ui.CreateBitmap()
myBitMap.CreateCompatibleBitmap(myMemDC, win_sz[2], win_sz[3])
myBitMap.SaveBitmapFile(myMemDC, "c:\mybitmap.bmp")







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From aeze616 at cse.unsw.edu.au  Tue Jun 17 22:54:42 2003
From: aeze616 at cse.unsw.edu.au (anson)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 19:54:42 -0700
Subject: Definition of Aspect Oriented Programming
Message-ID: <cb7ba330.0306171854.53378bcf@posting.google.com>

Dear sir,

    What is aspect oriented programming? I read a little bit about
AspectJ. It seems to me that its like...some kinda, new syntax that
ain't related to the original Java language. How do it work in
general?

regards,

zeallous



From yweng at cs.uoregon.edu  Thu Jun 12 22:58:52 2003
From: yweng at cs.uoregon.edu (Yan Weng)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 19:58:52 -0700
Subject: long-term release schedule?
References: <mailman.1054692908.26987.python-list@python.org> <5654fff9.0306112203.6aa1ef99@posting.google.com> <bc9is2$fr0$1@pith.uoregon.edu> <5654fff9.0306121555.4c214e92@posting.google.com> <bcb8bi$hmm$1@pith.uoregon.edu> <bcbcse$mhd$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <bcbf72$hqn$1@pith.uoregon.edu>

> Speaking as one who does scientific computing, the high-performance
> code is usually a small part of the code and, if needed, can easily be
> rewritten
> in C/C++/Fortran, which is quite easy given the wrapper generators
available
> for those languages.  Improving Python's performance would be nice, but
> it'll
> be a lot of work to make it comparable to any of those three languages.

I guess I understand what you mean. You believe making powerful wrapper
generators or C/C++/Fortran code generators is a more reasonable way to
solve performance issue. I tend to agree with that. :)

--
Yan Weng
yweng at cs.uoregon.edu
http://www.cs.uoregon.edu/~yweng/





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jun 27 09:53:12 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:53:12 +0200
Subject: Exposing object model in Python?
References: <bdffi1$skho2$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bdgvk5$sid7t$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <IrXKa.333801$3n5.129469@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <bdhi7n$hjn$1@main.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:

> > I'm writing a classical desktop application, using wxPython
> > and some other libraries. I'm interested to expose its
> > object model a la Microsoft's VBA. That is, I want to allow
> > my users to tinker with the app, i.e. write their own macros
> > in Python in a miniature IDE, within the app. I'd also like to ship
> > the program as a standalone app, using py2exe.

> Unfortunately the techniques used are a little too complicated to describe
> in a newsgroup posting.
>
> with-apologies-to-pierre-de-fermat-ly y'rs  - steve

    macrosource = getmacro(macroname)
    code = compile(macrosource, macroname, "exec")
    context = {}
    # populate context with fun things
    context["app"] = object_representing_my_app
    exec code in context

(add exception handling as necessary)

</F>







From see at my.signature.com  Sun Jun  1 10:03:47 2003
From: see at my.signature.com (Andrei)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 14:03:47 +0000
Subject: Some pythonic advice needed
References: <EOmCa.31502$1u5.2321@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <2945551.1054476227@dbforums.com>

Have you considered putting more than one answer in the dictionary entry
of the latin word? You could use a list of translations for it rather
than a single answer string, something like this:

mydict = {"latinword": ["dutch1", "dutch2"]}

combined with:

if answer in mydict["latinword"]: ....

I don't know if you need reverse translation too, that would be a bit
harder but you could build a reverse dictionary from the latin-dutch
one without any database which seems overkill unless you have huge
amounts of words.

--
print &quot;znvy: cebwrpg5 at bcrenznvy.pbz
Fcnzserr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp zrffntrf. V ernq gur yvfg, ab arrq gb PP.&quot;.decode(&quot;rot13&quot;)


Posted via http://dbforums.com



From scook at elp.rr.com  Fri Jun  6 22:45:45 2003
From: scook at elp.rr.com (Stan Cook)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 02:45:45 GMT
Subject: Copying Files
Message-ID: <tlcEa.92271$%e.5967562@twister.austin.rr.com>

Can someone give me a clue on using the copyfile function?  I've tried
implementing it in this fashion without success.

copyfile(d:\work\temp.dbf, d:\w)




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From irmen at xs4all.nl  Mon Jun 30 06:58:15 2003
From: irmen at xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:58:15 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jun 30)
Message-ID: <vg05u78vkhv56@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "Giving full access rights to a secretary or new programmer ought
to insure an occasional random file deletion."  -- Raymond Hettinger

"I always use join, but that's probably because that method is more likely
to run code that I once wrote.  Never trust code written by a man who
uses defines to create his own C syntax."   -- Fredrik Lundh


Discussion
----------
     Peter Hansen is right in complimenting Sorin Marti on his excellent
     problem description, and helps with reading binary data from a file.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3EFB0E26.9A069A9C%40engcorp.com>

     Fredrik Lundh shows how easy it is to write macro-like extensions
     for your Python application.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.1056722085.11922.python-list at python.org>

     Tim Delaney provides a mutable string class that can be used to
     concatenate strings efficiently and easily, instead of using
     myPage+="more html..." or "\n".join(strings).
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.1056587587.3703.python-list at python.org>

     Bengt Richter gives a possible explanation of the (historic?) distiction
     between carriage return (CR) and line feed (LF), and how this bears on
     problems with "shebang" scripts.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=bdcl1d$v43$0 at 216.39.172.122>

     Alan Kennedy explains why compiling to C code is not always guaranteed to
     speed things up, and why PyPy (Python written in Python!) could help
     in the performance department.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3EF9CBD8.F3AFF856 at hotmail.com>

     Raymond Hettinger explains the purpose of some of the recent iteration
     constructs (itertools), and why things are this way.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=PmwJa.6109$N%6.5701 at nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

     Edvard Majakari shares interesting opinions on Unit Testing and
     test-driven development.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=87of0pno5s.fsf at titan.staselog.com>
	

Announcements
-------------
     PyRex 0.8, a language for writing Python extension modules.
         <http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/>

     M2Crypto 0.11, a crypto and SSL toolkit for Python.
         <http://www.post1.com/home/ngps/m2>

     PythonCAD 8th release, a CAD package written in Python.
         <http://www.pythoncad.org/>

     DocUtils 0.3, a system for processing plaintext documentation
     (reStructuredText markup).
         <http://docutils.sourceforge.net/>

     Scratchy 0.4, an Apache log parser and HTML report generator.
         <http://scratchy.sourceforge.net/>

     ClientForm 0.0.10 and 0.1.3a, a Python module for handling
     HTML forms on the client.
         <http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientForm/>

     SCons 0.90, a software construction tool (build tool, or make tool).
         <http://www.scons.org/>

     Twisted 1.0.6, an event-driven networking framework for server
     and client applications.
         <http://www.twistedmatrix.com/>
     David Mertz, our own Lulu,  presents Twisted to a wider audience.
	 <http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-twist1.html>

     TTFQuery 0.2.4, builds on the FontTools module to allow you
     to query TTF font-files for metadata and glyph outlines.
         <http://sourceforge.net/projects/ttfquery/>


========================================================================
Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of summarizing action on the
    python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From jhefferon at smcvt.edu  Mon Jun 23 14:07:47 2003
From: jhefferon at smcvt.edu (Jim Hefferon)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 11:07:47 -0700
Subject: CGI and Unicode
Message-ID: <545cb8c2.0306231007.4a3c07a2@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I have been struggling with getting Unicode out of Python's cgi 
module. I have a small script illustrating the problem at the bottom 
but first I need to explain.

I want that users can send me material with a wide variety of 
characters.

I understand from looking around the net (particularly at this 
discussion:
http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:QbQ_esNHtswJ:mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2002-April/023077.html+x-www-form-urlencoded+unicode&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
on the Python developers list) that the best that I can hope for 
is to set the page with the form on it to be showing, say UTF-8, 
and then the data should show up UTF-8 encoded at my site.  

I think I have the page set to UTF-8 encoded by following the 
recommendation on http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html/charset.html 
about the META tag.

But when I ask what is the type of the variable that I get from 
the cgi module, it comes out as StringType, not UnicodeType.  My 
browser is Galeon on the latest Debian and I've also tested it 
with IE on NT.

What am I missing?  Thanks for any help,
Jim Hefferon

-------- test_cgi.py ----------------------------
#!/usr/bin/python -u
# test_cgi.py
# test CGI unicode issue
from types import *

import cgi
import cgitb
cgitb.enable()

# create the HTML document
print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"
print "<html><head><title>CGI TEST</title></head>\n\n"
print "<META http-equiv=\"Content-Type\" content=\"text/html;
charset=UTF-8\">"
print "<body bgcolor=\"white\">\n"

cgi_params=cgi.FieldStorage()
cgi_keys=cgi_params.keys()
try:
    var=cgi_params['name'].value
    if type(var) is UnicodeType:
        print "<p>The type of the variable is a Unicode</p>\n"
    elif type(var) is StringType:
        print "<p>The type of the variable is a regular string</p>\n"
    print "<p>Character 12 is %s</p>\n" % (var[12],)
except:
    pass

print "<form method=\"POST\" accept-charset=\"utf-8\">\n"
print "<input type=\"text\" name=\"name\">\n"
print "<input type=\"submit\">\n"
print "</form>\n"
print "</body></html>"



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Jun 30 07:54:46 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:54:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Idiomatic way of repeating items in a sequence.
References: <f58803d.0306300326.705bad44@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93AA81EC76E7Eduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

anlri at wmdata.com (alr) wrote in 
news:f58803d.0306300326.705bad44 at posting.google.com:

> I need to repeat each item in a list n times, like this function does:
> 
>   def repeatitems(sequence, repetitions):
>       newlist = []
>       for item in sequence:
>           for i in range(repetitions):
>               newlist.append(item)
>       return newlist
> 
> Output:
> 
>  >>> repeatitems(['a', 'b', 'c'], 3)
>   ['a', 'a', 'a', 'b', 'b', 'b', 'c', 'c', 'c']
> 
> Clear and simple. But i wonder if there is a more idiomatic way. 

The most obvious one that springs to mind is just a slight simplification 
of your version:

   def repeatitems(sequence, repetitions):
       newlist = []
       for item in sequence:
           newlist.extend([item] * repetitions)
       return newlist


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From fp2 at AUTO  Mon Jun  9 06:38:37 2003
From: fp2 at AUTO (Littlejohn septante cinq)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 10:38:37 GMT
Subject: Recall last result
References: <3ee4577d$0$25096$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: <3ee463ad$0$12451$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Erich Neuwirth <erich.neuwirth at aon.at> writes:

>Is there a standard way of recalling the last result?
>Following situation:
>I call a function producing a large solution
>for a combinatorial problem. The computation takes quite some time.
>I forgot to assign the result to a variable.
>The list is displayed on screen?
>Can i access the result of the last computation in a goboal vaiable?

Try: result = _

The interactive interpreter stores the last result in _ (it is like $_ in perl but without the noisy $)

>I tried to find the answer in the docs, but could not find it.
>Is there a FAQ dealing with questions like this one?




From jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com  Mon Jun 16 17:01:26 2003
From: jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com (jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:01:26 -0400
Subject: Testing for exc_traceback? The weirdest thing I've ever seen...
Message-ID: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B3399@SRV-03>

I have a data extraction script that is pulling data out of an ODBC
datasource on Win32 using the standard DBI 1.0 ODBC code. When I iterate
over each row and column in turn, I am seeing strange behaviour on some date
fields. This is certainly due the abysmal odbc driver provided by my vendor.
My sad story is that I need to work around these bad records.

If I try the following statement-

	print type(my_row[3]) 
I get- 
	<type 'DbiDate'>

Which is expected.

If I try to
	print str(my_row[3]) 
I get-
	exc_traceback

My workaround would be to check for this condition and return null if this
happens, which I am trying to do like this-

for column_seq in row:
	if str(column_name) == "exc_traceback":
		dest_column = 'null'
	else:
		dest_column = column_seq		

It doesn't work as I would expect it to, so obvoiusly I'm thinking about it
wrong. What is the correct way to test for these values?





From pcolsen at comcast.net  Mon Jun 16 11:18:55 2003
From: pcolsen at comcast.net (Peter Olsen)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 08:18:55 -0700
Subject: "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" in Python?
Message-ID: <a86143fb.0306160718.75cd6216@posting.google.com>

Has anyone translated some of the programs in Abelson and Sussman's
"Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" from Scheme into
Python.

Python has replace Scheme as my favorite language, but I doubt that
anything will ever replace SICP as my favorite CS book.  I'd like to
see the two melded, but probably I will ever have the time to do it
myself.

(If you respond, please send a copy to me directly.  Thanks!)

Peter Olsen
pcolsen (at) comcast (dot) net

Engineering is the art of using a professional knowledge of
mathematics and the physical sciences to improve the quality of life.



From peter at melchart.com  Tue Jun  3 18:16:36 2003
From: peter at melchart.com (Peter Melchart)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 22:16:36 GMT
Subject: nntplib body question
Message-ID: <879Da.1139848$uT2.175876@news.easynews.com>

hi,
is there any way to load only the first x lines of a post body via nntplib?
with read callbacks or something similar?
tia
peter





From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jun 18 12:04:11 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 17:04:11 +0100
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <87adcfo7oq.fsf@pobox.com> <8l%Ha.107937$pR3.2354921@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <87llvzmkxw.fsf@pobox.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
[...]
> I don't know the answer either.  It would depend on empirical measurements
> of how productive I am for my typical tasks in Python vs Magicklang, as
> well as on subjective measurements of how much I enjoy using either, etc,

Fairy Nuff.


> etc, AND market demand (effective demand, as in $$$-offered;-) for my
[...]

I could have predicted *that* part of your answer ;-) -- so I was more
interested in the technical issues.


John



From listbox at cybereal.org  Sat Jun 14 05:48:39 2003
From: listbox at cybereal.org (Zac Jensen)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 03:48:39 -0600
Subject: idle on linux
In-Reply-To: <bcepjg$bnvm$1@as201.hinet.hr>
References: <bcepjg$bnvm$1@as201.hinet.hr>
Message-ID: <200306140348.40447.listbox@cybereal.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Saturday 14 June 2003 03:17 am, Haris Bogdanovic wrote:
> When I try to start Idle, python says that he cannot find Tkinter (in
> PyShell.py) while python.org says that Tkinter is automatically a part of a
> python distribution.
>
> What's the problem here ?
>
> Thanks
> Haris

Did you have Tk/Tcl installed when you built python?  While Tkinter is 
included, it can't (and silently won't) build if Tk isn't installed for it to 
link up with...

- -Zac
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE+6u93V3L7YsSif1URAgFzAJ9qVBqdETmZ0DmmaXpPeVihm5okQwCghZ6O
65EzoMPpNiR41EqP7E1UCfk=
=+pBI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun 19 08:48:19 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:48:19 -0400
Subject: XML in python
References: <mailman.1056023019.23851.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EF1B113.ABB01F3F@engcorp.com>

> Ragu wrote:
> 
>         I need to read a XML file content in Python.
>         Can anyone send me link/sample source?
> 
>         Note: Send mails to my personel id, as I didnt still yet
>         subscribed to this list.

Do you plan to do anything with it after you read it?

Check out the xml.dom.minidom package...

-Peter



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jun 27 10:33:38 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:33:38 GMT
Subject: OFF TOPIC: What did Guido say?
References: <20030625002727.20904.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> <3EF95F29.8050609@riks.nl> <mailman.1056534582.11867.python-list@python.org> <bdhdpt$f12$1@eol.dd.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <6BYKa.333824$3n5.216510@news2.central.cox.net>

"Anders Hammarquist" <iko at cd.chalmers.se> wrote in message
news:bdhdpt$f12$1 at eol.dd.chalmers.se...
> In article <mailman.1056534582.11867.python-list at python.org>,
> Gerrit Holl  <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
>
> >Another one in a way more difficult language:
>
> Nah, Dutch is certainly more difficult, with your strange g-sound and
all...
>
> >hee de her linus torvalds oh ja utallar linux linux ;)
>
> and that would really be:
>
> Hej, det h?r ?r Linus Torvalds och jag uttalar Linux Linux.
>

So Linus speaks Swedish even though he's a Finn?

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From exarkun at intarweb.us  Fri Jun 20 17:08:40 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:08:40 -0400
Subject: Tricks with timers
In-Reply-To: <200306202025.43525.tireseas@onetel.com>
References: <200306202025.43525.tireseas@onetel.com>
Message-ID: <20030620210840.GA5539@meson.dyndns.org>

On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 08:25:43PM +0100, valhalla wrote:
> Hello
> 
> To get around the previously stated problem of using a timer-like function in 
> a guessing game to limit the amount of time a player has to guess the correct 
> number, I have used the following:
> 
>    signal.signal( signal.SIGALRM, timer )
>    signal.alarm( ticktock )
> 
> where timer is a function that prints "Time's Up!!" and 'ticktock' is a 
> variable passed a value from input("time needed: ").
> 
> That actually works quite well. The next piece of the puzzle is to find a way 
> in which I can do the equivalent of a break from the timer, so that if the 
> correct answer is guessed *within* the allotted time, the ticktock is 
> returned to zero and the timer function is suspended until the next game.

  Subsequent calls to signal.alarm() will override whatever the current
alarm timer is.

  Jp




From dwblas at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 10 15:04:19 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (D.W.)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:04:19 -0000
Subject: Rudeness with names (was Re: interpreted)
In-Reply-To: <3EE5BF67.2040201@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <bc5a3j+j683@eGroups.com>

Can we also include people who include the entire thread with the 
reply?  This is rude to the reader who has to sift through pages of 
text just to find the most recent comment, and, in a way, rude to 
yahoo by wasting their storage space, which they provide at no charge 
to the group?  My only comment to the thread, even though it is 
interesting, it will likely change nothing.

D.W.

--- In python-list at yahoogroups.com, Gerhard H?ring <gh at g...> wrote:
> Aahz wrote:
> > Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> >>Ifman1 wrote:
> >>
> >>>what do you mean "anonymous coward"???
> >>
> >>Somebody not using their real name on usenet and using a pseudonym 
like 
> >>"Ifman1" instead. I call these people "anonymous cowards" :-)^
> >>
> >>In some cases it's their intention to use these pseudonyms, in 
some 
> >>cases they just haven't set up their mail client properly. In any 
case, 
> >>I give them a nudge this way.
> > 
> > Well, I wasn't paying much attention earlier, but I have to say 
that I
> > consider this rather rude.  How the heck do you know what someone
's
> > "real name" is?  
> 
> I can't know. But then there are cases where someone just was 
careless 
> when configuring his/her mail/news client. That's why I give them a 
> nudge in case they weren't aware of it. If they *are* aware of it, 
they 
> can ignore it :)
> 
> I too feel offended by:
> 
> - anonymous posters
> - top-posting
> - broken quoting
> 
> In one word: carelessness.
> 
> Occasionally I will make originators aware of this. If you can't 
live 
> with this, feel free to killfile me.
> 
> > I say this as someone who received more than my fair
> > share of such rudeness.
> 
> Ditto for me and the above rudenesses.
> 
> There's probably little point in continuing this discussion on 
> python-list, though IMO. Reply-To set.
> 
> -- Gerhard
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jun  2 12:15:11 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:15:11 -0400
Subject: repr on a string
References: <pan.2003.06.01.20.16.40.747684@yahoo.com> <yfs1xydzcgx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <pan.2003.06.02.00.08.28.118677@yahoo.com> <yfswug4yeka.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <fYWdneeTM_6N5UajXTWcoQ@comcast.com>

"Alexander Schmolck" <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:yfswug4yeka.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk...
> David Shochat <shochatd at yahoo.com> writes:
> > for dir in sys.path:
> >     if string.find(os.path.abspath(dir), 'PyTools') != -1:
> >         print 'removing', repr(dir)
> >         sys.path.remove(dir)
> >
> > In the 3d line, why does he not just say:
> >   print 'removing', dir

> My guess would be: mainly to put the name into (the right; ' or ")
quotation
> marks and make sure that funny characters are escaped. I think using
`str`
> here would be equally OK, although then the user wouldn't be able to
tell
> apart e.g. "that filename " from "that filename".

Instead of asking or guessing, one can try things out in the
interactive interpreter:

>>> d = os.getcwd()
>>> print 'str:', d, '  repr:', repr(d)
str: C:\Python22   repr: 'C:\\Python22'

The difference is having the filename quoted or not in the output.  If
one wants the former, repr(dir) is easier than "'"+dir+"'" (thats
double quote, single quote, double quote, all twice), although the
latter avoids the \ doubling and gives the option of '"' instead.

>>> print "'"+d+"'", '"'+d+'"'
'C:\Python22' "C:\Python22"

so I would prefer this for production code.


Terry J. Reedy





From essai1 at mci.local  Thu Jun  5 16:44:31 2003
From: essai1 at mci.local (News M Claveau /Hamster-P)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:44:31 +0200
Subject: Screenshots
References: <3EDEFF92.654485D1@hotmail.com> <3EDF0AF8.7050406@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <bboa4a$mgj$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>

Wow !  Super !
Thanks
-- 
Michel Claveau
site :   http://mclaveau.com





From erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr  Sat Jun  7 11:32:41 2003
From: erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr (Erhan Ekici)
Date: Sat,  7 Jun 2003 18:32:41 +0300
Subject: Play a short sound...
In-Reply-To: <HLmEa.92242$g92.2147986@news2.tin.it>
References: <PnlEa.55289$pR3.1169900@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1054991715.24909.python-list@python.org> <HLmEa.92242$g92.2147986@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <1054999961.3ee205993d089@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr>

Quoting Manuel <manuelbastioni at tin.it>:

> This is not necessary, only a amusing addiction. Therefore,
> if it's very complex, I don't play any sound...
> 
> > There's a winsound module in the standard library that can do this.
> 
> Oh, thanks!
> But about a multiplatform soluction?
> 
> thx,

Hi,

Don't Worry about it. No, it is not complex operation.
> But about a multiplatform soluction?
No, only windows platforms

A simple example from tutorial is  below :


import winsound
# Play Windows exit sound.
winsound.PlaySound("SystemExit", winsound.SND_ALIAS)

# Probably play Windows default sound, if any is registered (because
# "*" probably isn't the registered name of any sound).
winsound.PlaySound("*", winsound.SND_ALIAS)




Erhan Ekici
ITU Distance Learning Center
ITU Electronics and Communication Eng.Student
E-Mail : erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr

www.uzem.itu.edu.tr






From pje at telecommunity.com  Sun Jun  8 14:24:06 2003
From: pje at telecommunity.com (Phillip J. Eby)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 11:24:06 -0700
Subject: solving the metaclass conflict
References: <2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7@posting.google.com> <25b5433d.0306071443.63b27df6@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0306080334.329fa409@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <25b5433d.0306081024.517d855e@posting.google.com>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<2259b0e2.0306080334.329fa409 at posting.google.com>...
> pje at telecommunity.com (Phillip J. Eby) wrote in message news:<25b5433d.0306071443.63b27df6 at posting.google.com>...
> > mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7 at posting.google.com> <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7%40posting.google.com>...
> > > 
> > * Handle non-type metatype roots (e.g. ExtensionClass and MESS)
> 
> I don't use this kind of stuff and they are not standard,  so it was
> not in the design to support them.

At the time I wrote my metaclass generator, ExtensionClass at least
was in common usage; still is, actually, for Zope 2 users.  My
understanding, however, is that in principle you could still create a
pure-Python root metatype, for experimenting with metatype systems. 
But I'll certainly agree that that's a *very* niche usage.


> >* Remove unneeded metaclasses that are a subclass of another listed
> >metaclass
> 
> Probably, as David says, you mean the reverse: one should remove
> unneeded
> metaclasses that are a superclass of another listed metaclass. Does
> not seem
> so dangerous, but I will fix it.

Yes, that's what I meant.  Getting *that* bit of logic to work
correctly has occasionally made my head spin, especially deciding how
to handle the ordering of the resulting filtered set of bases.



> > >* Reuse all generated metaclasses (You're memoizing on a set of base
> >classes, rather than on the set of unique metaclasses.)
> 
> I am also memoizing the passed metaclasses (i.e. the 'metas' tuple)
> and
> from the tuple of bases classes I get the corresponding metaclasses,
> so
> it is not obvious when _generatemetaclass will fail. Can you give a
> counterexample ? If yes, I will fix it.

class M1(type): pass
class M2(type): pass
class B1(object): __metaclass__ = M1
class B2(object): __metaclass__ = M2
class B3(B2): pass

class C1(B1,B2): __metaclass__ = funcThatMakesMetaclass
class C2(B1,B3): __metaclass__ = funcThatMakesMetaclass

If I understand your code correctly, a new metaclass will be generated
for C2, even though the metaclass generated for C1 would be adequate.


> >It's bloody difficult to write a correct, complete, and efficient
> >metaclass generator, so it's no wonder Guido chose to punt on this in
> >2.2 (and 2.3 for that matter).
> 
> I would say it is difficult, indeed. Maybe not bloody difficult,
> though.

Well, I needed an "industrial strength" version, because it was for an
AOP tool that would process *all* classes in modules run through the
AOP tool.  So it had to work for every possible kind of class.  Also,
because it could be used to generate metaclasses on the fly, I wanted
the memoization to be weak-reference based, so that cached metaclasses
would be discarded when no longer used.  And of course I wanted it to
be fast, because it was used to load generated modules with hundreds
of classes.  So I used memoizing based on the metaclass bases, rather
than on the class bases.

Anyway, *writing* it wasn't the hard part.  Getting it to be *correct*
for all inputs was the hard part.  :)


> I think may recipe is good enough for most users, especially since
> they
> can understand how it works and its limitations (which were indicated
> in the commented lines BTW; I don't think meta-metaclasses are so
> largely used to deserve explicit mention). Anyway, I will fix the
> issue
> with meta-metaclasses if it can be done with few lines of code, and
> the issue with unneeded metaclasses, too. Not sure if I want to fix
> the
> issue with classic classes, tough.

Under Python 2.2, you can't mix a new-style class with 'type' (and not
cause Python to core-dump when you inspect the resulting class!).  So
if you want to create a mixin that can be used with 'type' as well as
other kinds of classes, you *have* to use a classic class.

Anyway...  the punchline to all of this is...  I quickly discovered
that for normal usage (i.e. not via automated tools like my AOP code),
you don't need even as sophisticated of a recipe as what you've
created, let alone what I wrote.  It's just as easy to do:

class C1(B1,B2):
    class __metaclass__(B1.__class__,B2.__class___): pass

While a bit verbose, I find that about 90% of the time when I need to
combine metaclasses, there are only two involved, and then the
inheritance hierarchy stabilizes again.  Perhaps you should mention
this "manual recipe" along with your automatic one, since it's a lot
less than 25 lines if you only need to do it once or twice.



From icarroll at pobox.com  Tue Jun 17 16:22:56 2003
From: icarroll at pobox.com (W Isaac Carroll)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:22:56 -0700
Subject: Question about Python-Grammar
References: <peerev0nik342gr7i1ecfjudm8oqobmf05@4ax.com> <6qk7bmnq7e.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055796990.15012.python-list@python.org> <6hhtev0t34c0lnj8i4g4b41iqcmhj7qr0d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EEF78A0.2040001@pobox.com>

Roman Meisl wrote:
> But I've to commit, with every glance I look deeper into
> python-grammar, I realize this all is weird crap!
> 
> Why aren't things statet clear and correctly? (see also my posting
> above)

I'm not the best person to give you the answers you're looking for. I 
imagine that if you post examples of the other weird things you've 
found, you can get a more knowledgeable person's response.

TTFN





From dmetler.nospam at partner.auchan.fr  Fri Jun  6 10:49:18 2003
From: dmetler.nospam at partner.auchan.fr (Damien Metzler)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 16:49:18 +0200
Subject: Add methods to a class dynamically
In-Reply-To: <64fb4467.0306060628.2c51bf09@posting.google.com>
References: <64fb4467.0306060628.2c51bf09@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbq8rb$glb$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Hoang Do wrote:
> I am having trouble invoking the created method.  The function addition goes
> fine but invoking it gives an error.  Here is some simple code:
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> class DynObj:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.methods = ("a", "b", "c")
>         for method in self.methods:
>            self. __generateMethod(method)
>     def __generateMethod(self, methodName):
>         code = "def %s(self):\n\tprint %s\n" % (methodName, methodName)
>         exec code in globals(), self.__dict__
> 
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     x = DynObj()
>     print dir(x)
>     x.a(x)
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> The Error:
> NameError: global name 'a' is not defined
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Methods "a", "b", and "c" are callable and in DynObj's __dict__.  However, I
> can't seem to call it.
> 
> Calling for help from anyone familiar with Python's introspective features?



code = "def %s(self):\n\tprint '%s'\n" % (methodName, methodName)

you forgot the ' so your looking to print the variable a wich is not 
defined as a global variable




From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jun 29 16:35:24 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 22:35:24 +0200
Subject: Get the filenames in a directory and its subdirectories
In-Reply-To: <Xns93A9CA4C6C014t45fs6vve@130.133.1.4>
References: <Xns93A9CA4C6C014t45fs6vve@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <bdnih3$ui48j$1@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de>

Psymaster wrote:
> That would be very handy for a small progrtam I've written. I've 
> browsed through the documentation for the standard modules but 
> there doesn't seem to be a way (please correct me if I'm wrong).

os.path.walk

> I know that it shouldn't be very hard to write a module myself 
> using listdir() and isdir() or stuff like that, 

Yep, this and a recursive function. BTDT. And many other people did this 
as well ;-)

> but I'm having problems.

Unless you describe which problems it's unlikely anybody can help ;-)

-- Gerhard




From enrica_dente at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  2 11:16:42 2003
From: enrica_dente at hotmail.com (enrica dente)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 15:16:42 +0000
Subject: Date Conversion in Zope
Message-ID: <Law14-F14u93TakHcSq0002b4a8@hotmail.com>

Dear All,

Does anyone know how to convert a date from format DD/MM/YYYY into format 
YYYY/MM/DD using Python in Zope?

I get a string date from an input box named EventDate which I then need to 
pass to a <dtml-var> so that I can then convert its format. The lines of 
code I've wrotten give the errors below.


1)
<dtml-call "REQUEST.set('EventDate', fmt='%Y/%m/%d')">
Error Type: TypeError
Error Value: __setitem__() got an unexpected keyword argument 'fmt'

2)
<dtml-call "REQUEST.set('event_date', 'EventDate.strftime(%d/%m/%Y)'">
Expression (Python) Syntax error:
unexpected EOF while parsing

The code I have found on Zope.org works ony  if you accept in the imput box 
the american date format (MM,DD,YYYY) and not (DD,MM,YYYY).

In the form:
<input type="text" name="EventDate:date" size="25">

In the DTML method:
<dtml-call "REQUEST.set('EventDate', EventDate.strftime('%Y/%m/%d'))">

How do I change EventDate into the (DD,MM,YYYY) format?

Please help me.
Regards
Enrica

_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger 
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger





From spahievi at vega.bg  Thu Jun 19 14:29:21 2003
From: spahievi at vega.bg (Niki Spahiev)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:29:21 +0300
Subject: Btrieve/C-extension question
In-Reply-To: <bcslog$70p$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
References: <bcrua6$120$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
 <94974e1a.0306190653.3a829cb6@posting.google.com>
 <bcslog$70p$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <1193393018.20030619212921@vega.bg>

this is ctypes testing example.
Maybe requires small fix for current ctypes version.

-- 
Best regards,
 Niki Spahiev
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From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Jun  8 05:44:51 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 11:44:51 +0200
Subject: the 'in' operator and class instances
In-Reply-To: <20030608085256.M7792@ee.iitm.ernet.in>
References: <20030608062201.16011.72647.Mailman@mail.python.org> <20030608085256.M7792@ee.iitm.ernet.in>
Message-ID: <20030608094451.GA2522@nl.linux.org>

Hi,

Vinoo vasudevan wrote:
> >>> class a:
>    def f(self):
>       pass
> 
> >>> 'f' in a
> <Traceback>
> 
> Could somebody tell me why class instances don't use in to check for
> memebership i.e. something like hasattr(..). I read up on "__contains__" in
> the Language Reference. Couldn't python just define a default version of this
> for all classes/instances to check for membership. Any class that attaches a
> special meaning to membership can of course define its own "__contains__". In
> c++ terminology (my __previous__ language :-) ) : can't "object" define a
> virtual function "__contains__"? Just a suggestion. Plz let me know if I don't
> have a clue of I'm talking about. :-)

To create this behavious, you would need a metaclass:

  2 >>> class meta(type):
  2 ...  def __contains__(self, o):
  2 ...   return hasattr(self, o)
  2 ...
  3 >>> class Foo:
  3 ...  __metaclass__ = meta
  3 ...  def m(self): pass
  3 ...
  4 >>> 'm' in Foo
True
  5 >>> 'n' in Foo
False

Metaclasses are documented at
http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html#metaclasses

This behaviour would hence need to be in "type", not in "object". Foo's
__class__ is "type", so __contains__ is looked up in "type". Python's
builtin types are not open classes, so it would need to be in the language.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
138. If a man wishes to separate from his wife who has borne him no
children, he shall give her the amount of her purchase money and the dowry
which she brought from her father's house, and let her go.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun  9 16:13:24 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 16:13:24 -0400
Subject: File reading using delimiters
References: <153fa67.0306090752.218d23b1@posting.google.com> <3EE4BE74.54950D6A@engcorp.com> <bc2n79$a0v$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3EE4EA64.56D42AF7@engcorp.com>

Ben S wrote:
> 
> In this case, I'm reading plain ASCII text files ranging in size from
> 10K to maybe 1Mb, where strings are delimited with the tilde character.
> But I'm asking as much about the available functionality as I am about
> my particular problem. I suppose I could use read() then split() and see
> how the performance works out. I'm surprised if there's nothing that
> lets me read more selectively from the file though.

My first approach for a problem like that would probably be (since
you said "arbitrary delimiters") to do a simple .read() to get the entire
file into memory, then use .split() if the delimiter is simple (i.e.
does not occur in the data itself) or maybe re.split() if the delimiter
is more complicated.

If that wasn't enough, I'd need to know more about the nature of the
arbitrary delimiters that are expected.

So to make more progress, is there anything wrong with this?

data = file('filename').read()
blocks = data.split('~')
for block in blocks:
    # do the algorithm on a block here


-Peter



From danieljng at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 12 21:30:27 2003
From: danieljng at yahoo.com (Daniel)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 18:30:27 -0700
Subject: Python Regex Newbie- matching substrings
References: <mailman.1055436992.32067.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <798d4337.0306121730.76cf1302@posting.google.com>

Hi Harvey and Thomas,

Thanks so much for your help. It works! :)

Daniel.



From dave at dvdfoz.eclipse.co.uk  Tue Jun  3 08:18:37 2003
From: dave at dvdfoz.eclipse.co.uk (Dave Foster)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 05:18:37 -0700
Subject: Problem with pywintypes.Time
Message-ID: <c7792296.0306030418.666052fc@posting.google.com>

I am having problems calling a COM method which takes a DATE type as
an argument. I cannot seem to directly construct a pywintypes.Time
instance and pass as an argument.


To illustrate, I created a DLL server, build on VC++ 6 using the ATL
wizard, and added a couple of simple methods, which just return their
arguments.
---------------------------------------------
STDMETHODIMP CPyDateTest::Test1(long code, DATE *date)
{
	*date = (DATE)code;
	return S_OK;
}
STDMETHODIMP CPyDateTest::Test2(DATE date, long *code)
{
	*code = (long)date;
	return S_OK;
}

constructed the COM wrapper using makepy, and I have a test script 

--------------------------------
import win32com.client
import pywintypes
import time

dateProblem = win32com.client.Dispatch('PyDateProblem.PyDateTest')

date = dateProblem.Test1(30000) # construct date via server
print 'Server constructed Date   -----', date
code = dateProblem.Test2(date) # this works fine 
print 'COM Date code             -----', code

date2 = pywintypes.Time(time.time()) # directly construct date 
print 'Directly constructed date -----', date2 
code2 = dateProblem.Test2(date2) # this raises SystemError
print 'Do NOT See this', code2
---------------------------------

when I run this, Python 2.2.2, the date returned from call to the
Test1 method works fine, the directly constructed date raises a
SystemError.
The output I see is, 

-----------------------------------------
Server constructed Date   ----- <PyTime:18/02/1982 00:00:00>
COM Date code             ----- 30000
Directly constructed date ----- <PyTime:03/06/2003 13:14:34>
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "testScript.py", line 14, in ?
    code2 = dateProblem.Test2(date2) # this raises SystemError
  File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\gen_py\F869A325-F3EE-4E60-957F-37
B9BD15E622x0x1x0.py", line 34, in Test2
    return self._ApplyTypes_(0x2, 1, (24, 0), ((7, 1), (16387, 2)),
'Test2', Non
e,date, code)
  File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py",
line 341, in
 _ApplyTypes_
    return self._get_good_object_(apply(self._oleobj_.InvokeTypes,
(dispid, 0, w
Flags, retType, argTypes) + args), user, resultCLSID)
SystemError: NULL result without error in PyObject_Call
-----------------------------------------------------


Thanking all in advance for any advice or tips on what I am doing
wrong.

Dave Foster



From cgjunkaddr at attbi.com  Tue Jun  3 09:27:55 2003
From: cgjunkaddr at attbi.com (cgjunkaddr at attbi.com)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 06:27:55 -0700
Subject: Need Kobra 2.2
References: <926d3924.0305251704.56539ef4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <17c2b558.0306030527.462f8621@posting.google.com>

lamb100 at korea.com (Seunghyun Kim) wrote in message news:<926d3924.0305251704.56539ef4 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi
> 
> Is there anyone who have KOBRA 2.2? I tried to access KOBRA homepage
> but it was blocked. In newgroup I found a posting that the author of
> KOBRA is busy so it will take time to reopen homepage.
> 
> My email address is here:
> lamb100 at korea.com
> 
> If you have KOBRA 2.2, please send me it.
> 
> Thanks in advance

Hi

I am the author.
Please email me at:
chetan at gadgil.net/cgadgil at cxosystems.com

I have version 3.1 out now, which allows for a lot more simplicity:
e.g.

import dotnet4pylib
from CLR.System.Xml.dll.System.Xml import XmlDocument

x = XmlDocument()

etc

Regards
Chetan



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Jun 29 09:53:12 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:53:12 +0200
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <c9%Ha.200753$g92.4077297@news2.tin.it> <uy8zy4vzs.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <pNfIa.206219$g92.4232233@news2.tin.it> <slrnbft9b1.fmd.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>
Message-ID: <bdmr66$j5n$1@news.hccnet.nl>

kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes) wrote:

>> And in neither C++ nor Java can you express "c is a container", either
>> directly or indirectly, except in comments
>
>  That is incorrect for Java, and for most C++ class libraries.
>
>    List c = new ArrayList();
>    c.add("foo");
>    c.add("bar");
>    System.out.println( c instanceof Collection );
>    System.out.println( c.size() );
>    for(Iterator it = c.iterator(); it.hasNext(); ) {
>        System.out.println( it.next() );
>    }

As some googling seems to indicate this is an extendable list of
references. Since int doesn't derive from object, this will probably
fail:

c.add(1)

One decaffeinated Java with extra coffein please :-)

Anton

---

z,w=zip(range(99,0,-1)+['no'],'s'*98+' s')," on the wall"
n,t="%s bottle%s of beer","take one down, pass it around"
for x,y in zip(z,z[1:]):print'\n'.join((n%x+w,n%x,t,n%y+w,''))



From lists at gregfortune.com  Tue Jun 17 23:00:12 2003
From: lists at gregfortune.com (Greg Fortune)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:00:12 -0700
Subject: Python 2.3 + mysql?
References: <d1avevkfg5puhepurr8o0tipkcktn1b600@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <sAPHa.1013$Jk5.292109@feed2.centurytel.net>

I'm personally not running 2.3 yet, but try 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python

Greg Fortune
Fortune Solutions

Chris Stromberger wrote:

> Is there a mysql module that works with Python 2.3?  I don't see one
> listed at sourceforge.
> 
> Thanks.




From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 19 10:53:16 2003
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 07:53:16 -0700
Subject: Btrieve/C-extension question
References: <bcrua6$120$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <94974e1a.0306190653.3a829cb6@posting.google.com>

"vincent wehren" <v.wehren at home.nl> wrote in message news:<bcrua6$120$1 at news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>...
<Problem description snipped>
> Is it sensible to pass such a block of memory to Python and back?
> If so, what is the best way to go about this, I.O.W, how do I pass such a
> block of memory
> to Python and back (unchanged).

I think you need a PyCObject.
http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/cObjects.html

<quote from page above>
       This subtype of PyObject represents an opaque value, useful for
C extension modules who need to pass an opaque value (as a void*
pointer) through Python code to other C code.
<end quote>

It seems like this is meant for function pointers and the like, but it
works well for pieces of memory that need to be passed through Python
but not processed.

HTH,
Paul Simmonds

> 
> Any pointers would be much appreciated.
> 
> Regards,
> Vincent Wehren



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Jun 19 15:01:33 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:01:33 +0200
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
References: <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6@posting.google.com> <94974e1a.0306182332.5d0c4ac8@posting.google.com> <bcshoh$kb8$1@news.hccnet.nl> <eppstein-7BC338.08023319062003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <bct1ei$bol$1@news.hccnet.nl>

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote:

>In article <bcshoh$kb8$1 at news.hccnet.nl>,
> anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote:
>
>> Output from a test run:
>> 
>> zipped  : 0.985 sec.
>> ranged  : 0.425 sec.
>> inplace : 0.206 sec.
>
>Interesting.  When I try it, what I find is that zipped is usually but 
>not always fastest, inplace is a little slower, and ranged is 
>significantly slower -- data at end of message.

Thanks for sharing this info, the data is very counterintuitive.
Probably programmer error :-)

Anton



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jun  5 17:38:10 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 14:38:10 -0700
Subject: Using metaclasses to make super more beatiful
References: <mailman.1054831871.3625.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306051338.62f403a2@posting.google.com>

Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.1054831871.3625.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi,
> 
> as demonstrated by Guido's paper[0], a relatively simple metaclass
> can make the use of super a lot more beatiful:
> 
>  97 >>> class autosuper(type):
>  97 ...  def __init__(cls, name, bases, dict):
>  97 ...   super(autosuper, cls).__init__(name, bases, dict)
>  97 ...   setattr(cls, "super", super(cls))
>  97 ...
>  98 >>> class A:
>  98 ...  __metaclass__ = autosuper
>  98 ...  def f(self): return "A"
>  98 ...
> 100 >>> class B(A):
> 100 ...  def f(self):
> 100 ...   return self.super.f()
> 100 ...
> 101 >>> B()
> <__main__.B object at 0x403b3c6c>
> 102 >>> B().f()
> 'A'
> 
> Why doesn't type include the behaviour of autosuper by default,
> so that each class can use self.super or self.__super__ so that
> using super is easier?

Notice that Guido has been clever than you and he has used a private 
attribute .__super,  not just .super. Doing your way is not safe under
inheritance, as Just pointed out. Here is an exercise for you: try to 
understand the difference between the following two programs:

 # program 1

  class B(object):
       def __init__(self): 
          print self.__this,'.__init__'
  B._B__this=B

  class C(B):
      def __init__(self):
         super(self.__this,self).__init__() # cooperative __init__ 
         print self.__this,'.__init__'
  C._C__this=C

  C()

  # output:
  # <class '__main__.B'> .__init__
  # <class '__main__.C'> .__init__


and

  # program 2


class B(object):
    def __init__(self): 
        print self.this,'.__init__'
B.this=B

class C(B):
    def __init__(self):
        super(self.this,self).__init__() # cooperative __init__ 
        print self.this,'.__init__'
C.this=C

C()

  # output:
  # <class '__main__.C'> .__init__
  # <class '__main__.C'> .__init__

> And, is it convention not to use Capitalization for metaclasses?
> In three examples, Guido doensn't do it in his paper[0]!
> 
> [0] http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html#metaclasses
> 
> yours,
> Gerrit.

I always use capitalization for metaclasses, they are classes, not
functions! I think you are free to do as you wish, anyway. My suggestion
(actually it is not mine, it comes from the metaclass book) is to use
adjective as metaclass names (notice that Guido does not do that).

Have fun,

                                     Michele


P.S. shameless, I point you to

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pymeta.html

and I anticipate that we will write a second paper on the
subject very soon !



From mainland at apeiron.net  Mon Jun  2 20:42:44 2003
From: mainland at apeiron.net (Geoffrey Mainland)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 17:42:44 -0700
Subject: reading files in folder
References: <3edbece3$0$8343$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-02.noos.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.03.00.42.44.138573@apeiron.net>

I think os.path.walk is probably what you want. If you're new to Python
you should browse through the library reference so you have a general idea
of what's there.

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-os.path.html

On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 03:34:08 +0200, ataraxia2500 wrote:
> I would like to make a function that do something to all the text files that
> are in a folder and if that folder contains other folders with text files
> the functions would also modify those text files. 
> is there a simple function that do that?
> 
> thanx in advance





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Jun 14 17:50:50 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 17:50:50 -0400
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] PyKota v1.08 is out
References: <pan.2003.06.13.20.11.22.820318@unice.fr> <87isr8g0jc.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <6I-cnQK6GaBcBXajXTWcqw@comcast.com>

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:87isr8g0jc.fsf at pobox.com...
> Jerome Alet <alet at unice.fr> writes:
>
> > I'm pleased to announce that PyKota v1.08 is out.
>
> Why do people announce to c.l.py, instead of c.l.py.announce?

As I see it, announcements go to both groups, discussion of
annoucement should be limited to clp.  (I think clpa is moderated,
sometimes slowly.)

> I'm not complaining -- it's just that, I guess, people who want to
> read announcements, go to the announcements group.  :-)

I see it as and believe it was meant to be a subset group, not a
disjoint set group.  Almost everyone reading clp will want to see
announcements anyway.

Terry





From m at moshez.org  Mon Jun  9 10:22:15 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 14:22:15 -0000
Subject: signal handling oddity
In-Reply-To: <20030609134716.915163335D@www.fastmail.fm>
References: <20030609134716.915163335D@www.fastmail.fm>, <Tr9za.228673$pa5.224690@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <3H9za.47086$h42.8645@twister.nyc.rr.com> <Bmbza.211$Iq.22242517@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <d116fbae.0306090531.5d0fd55a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030609142215.9399.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Mon, 09 Jun 2003, "Justin Johnson" <justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> wrote:

> I tried adding code to
> handle SIGINT (below).  What happens now is, I control-c and nothing
> happens, but when the next xmlrpc request comes through, the service
> exits, running stopService.  So the control-c is caught, but only when
> the next request comes through.  Anyone know why this is?

You didn't bother to mention which platform it is. In any case, the
problem is due to some interaction between what Python does to make
sure your signal handling is safe and how the OS works. I can never
remember the exact reason, but it boils down to signals not interrupting
blocking system calls. The solution, of course, is not to block. If
SimeplXMLRPCServer uses what I think it does (an accept() call)
then there is no easy way to solve it.

At the risk of annoying lots of people here, I would suggest using
the Twisted XML-RPC server support. Twisted on Windows (where IIRC
this problem manifests itself) will run select() for at most 5-second
delays, so a C-c would have at most 5 second delays. If even that
is too much,

def foo():
    reactor.callLater(1, foo)
foo()

should make sure it caps at 1 second, at the cost of a slight performance
penalty.

Further reading:
Using XML-RPC: http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/howto/xmlrpc
Setting up the web server:
http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/howto/using-twistedweb
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From djones at shcorp.com  Sun Jun  8 13:20:17 2003
From: djones at shcorp.com (Dan Jones)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 13:20:17 -0400
Subject: cPickle.load() question
In-Reply-To: <3ee366b4$0$49108$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.1055086642.5723.python-list@python.org> <3ee366b4$0$49108$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3EE37051.7050407@shcorp.com>

Irmen de Jong wrote:

> Dan Jones wrote:
>
>> Hello all!
>>
>> I'm new to python and am trying to write a simple program to keep a 
>> list of my customers and generate pdf invoices for them (haven't 
>> gotten that far yet, any pdf module recommendations?). I have defined 
>> a customer class and a function to pickle them into a file. I'm just 
>> not sure how to go about reading the customer file back in. Is there 
>> a way to iterate over a pickled file and cPickle.load() each entry 
>> into a list?
>
>
> Just pickle the whole list instead of each customer object separately!
> Then the unpickling will return your whole list of customer objects :-)
>
> --Irmen
>
>
Thanks a lot, I didn't even think of doing it that way. :)





From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Thu Jun 12 07:50:12 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 04:50:12 -0700
Subject: How to test if a variable has a natural number?
References: <bc8a37$flfio$1@ID-108519.news.dfncis.de> <EpOFa.27679$7n1.875205@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <mailman.1055375241.9496.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0306120350.8c4f8d1@posting.google.com>

How about this...

from types import *

def natural(num):
    if num>0 and type(num) is IntType:
        return 1
    else:
        return 0


Cheers,

Anand Pillai

Jp Calderone <exarkun at intarweb.us> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055375241.9496.python-list at python.org>...
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 10:53:24PM +0000, Jack Daniel wrote:
> > Martin P<martin_p at despammed.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > how can I find out if the number of a variable
> > > is a natural number or not?
> > > 
> > 
> > I'll asume that by "find out if the number of a variable
> > is a natural number or not" you are asking how to determine whether the 
> > number a varible is set to is a Natural Number (ie in the set of  whole 
> > positive numbers; a positive integer).
> > 
> > If this is the case here we go:
> > 
> > def natural(x):
> >         if x >= 1 & x % 1 == 0:
> 
>   The preferred way to spell this is with "and", not "&".  The semantics are
> slightly different, and the operation you're really looking for is boolean
> and, not bitwise and.
> 
> >                 print "Varible is set to a NATURAL"
> >         else:
> >                 print "Varible is NOT set to a natural"
> > 
> > run this lil snippet with the name of your varible as arg x
> > 
> 
>   resisting-the-urge-to-point-out-english-mispellings'ly y'rs,
> 
>   Jp



From suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com  Thu Jun 12 09:20:02 2003
From: suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com (Suresh  Kumar)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 13:20:02 -0000
Subject: Cnavas rectangle filling......................
Message-ID: <20030612132002.12083.qmail@webmail27.rediffmail.com>

Hi,
   Iam using python/tkinter/pmw in windows. Most of graphics languages provides facility to fill the rectangcle with horizantal/vertical lines. I know that in tkinter we can fill the  canvas  rectangle's interior using "stipple". But my customer is expecting the rectangles to be filled with  diagnal/vertical/horizantal lines. Is there any direct way is available in tkinter/Pmw to fill the rectangle with lines?
or i have to use "create_line" command explicitly?

With Regards,
V.Suresh Kumar
  
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From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Fri Jun  6 11:52:24 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:52:24 -0400
Subject: Jython and Java 3D - Has it been done?
Message-ID: <3EE0B8B8.6070602@optonline.com>

I had written -

 >Early in my exploration of Python, (which was early in the life of 
 >Java3d), I did enough experimentation to find that it is realistic to
 >access its functionality through Jython with what, for my purposes, was
 >decent performance.

A bit OT, but thought I'd mention that I had also done a fairly complete 
port of the javax 3d math library underlying Java3d to CPython and 
Numeric, which I then used when working with PyOpenGL. It was done 
largely as a learning exercise for myself - as to Python, Numeric and 3d 
math.  But since it was largely compatible with the well documented 
javax library, I thought it might have some general purpose usefulness 
in connection with PyOpenGL - that is in providing a 3d math library 
which could be considered as documented by reference to the javax 3d 
documentation as some kind of "standard" for 3d math.

Something I think I could still dig up if anyone was interested in a 
look see.

Art





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jun 27 04:10:02 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:10:02 +0200
Subject: win32ui screen capture
References: <o43nfvsc8r4q934p709l1g3thtoube37qn@4ax.com> <IlQKa.4463$Ei4.1683@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bdh051$pg1$1@main.gmane.org>

Mark S Pryor wrote:

> You may be able to make this work ... eventually. However,
> circulating in the Python community you will find the C file
> _grabscreen.c with all the same API calls you are trying to use
> in standard C.
>
> see this post
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1011217637.9447.python-list%40p
> ython.org
>
> It explains how to compile the module _grabscreen.pyd with MS Visual C.
> I was able to get a screen shot script in 10 minutes after I read this
> post. If you don't have a grabscreen module already, see this ZIP file
> for the relevant files. Use the file ImageGrab1.py to make a screen
> capture of the desktop and save the results as PNG.
>
> (for ActivePython 2.2 only)
> http://mysite.verizon.net/res1ur2j/GrabScreen.zip
>
> you will need PIL from
> http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/

note that PIL 1.1.3 and later includes screen grabbing facilities;
for details, see:

    http://www.effbot.org/zone/pil-imagegrab.htm

</F>







From wrbt at email.com  Mon Jun 23 16:19:13 2003
From: wrbt at email.com (Larry)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 13:19:13 -0700
Subject: newbie: good reasons for learning Python?
References: <3ef37a28$0$306$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <ZVLIa.468$hY1.37549@news20.bellglobal.com> <o1NIa.611$hY1.47591@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <2ec1bc1c.0306231219.1374a169@posting.google.com>

"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote in message news:<o1NIa.611$hY1.47591 at news20.bellglobal.com>...
> Better yet, go here:
> http://99-bottles-of-beer.ls-la.net/
> 
> And browse how each language solves this relatively simple problem. (This is
> how I discovered Python, BTW.)

I sent this site to my Boss and he immediately noticed there was no
Jovial or APL versions. What? They've got Visual Cow++ (or whatever
the hell that moo thing was) and are missing some of the old school
big iron languages. For shame. :)



From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Jun  4 00:31:11 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:31:11 +1000
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
In-Reply-To: <1ieDa.35049$DV.60225@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com> <PNdDa.824522$OV.780836@rwcrnsc54> <bbjpt9$p0q$1@panix3.panix.com> <1ieDa.35049$DV.60225@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <20030604043111.GA14866@frobozz>

On Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 04:09:33AM +0000, Bryan wrote:
> 
> ok, i understand what you mean now.  but, in a way, it seems that we are
> playing symantec games here. from a programmers prespective, it looks and
> feels like a keyword.
> 
> style 1:
> def myMethod(args) [staticmethod]:
>     blah, blah, blah
> 
> style 2:
> def staticmethod myMethod(args):
>     blah, blah, blah
> 
> 
> these two "styles" appear to be the same, except the second one seems to be
> more natural and simpler and obvious to me. the first one looks like "the
> function is becoming an array or indexed or something... not sure exactly
> what those [] mean... better look it up in that nutshell book....".   sorry,
> but i have to vote -1 on style one, +1 on style 2, +0 keeping it the way it
> is.

Where the [] proposal shines, though is when using multiple wrappers for the
function:

    def myMethod(cls, args) [staticmethod, synchronised]:
        "blah, blah, blah"

(Here synchronised is a hypothetical function that ensures access to the
function it wraps is serialised)

Which would be equivalent to:

    def myMethod(cls, args):
        "blah, blah, blah"
    myMethod = staticmethod(synchronised(myMethod))

(Or possibly nested the other way; I haven't thought deeply about which way
works better).

-Andrew.





From ed at membled.com  Sun Jun  8 06:20:30 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 08 Jun 2003 11:20:30 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3he71hk52.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1u1b1h908.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3brx9xepd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <l1k7bwhnv5.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) writes:

>>>What is the output of
>>>
>>> print a,lambda:print b,c
>> 
>>As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the lambda definition could
>>be parenthesized where the parse would otherwise be ambiguous.

>That doesn't answer my question. What would be the output of this
>statement?

It is syntactically ambiguous because of the two print statements both
accepting commas.  You'd need to write

    print a, (lambda: print b, c)

which prints the value of a followed by '<function <lambda> ...>', or

    print a, (lambda: print b), c

which prints the value of a, a string representing the function, and
then the value of c.

>>Is it a rule of Python's grammar that no construct should ever require
>>parenthesizing just to stop it being ambiguous?  
>
>No, there is no such rule.

So there is no reason to reject out of hand allowing one-line
statements in lambda just because such constructs may require
parenthesizing when used inside larger statements like 'print'.  There
may be other grammatical reasons of course.

>The 'problem', at the moment, is that you fail to specify what
>exactly the grammar is that you are proposing.

Elsewhere in this thread I have mentioned

    lambda_form ::=
                 "lambda" [parameter_list]: simple_stmt

which seems to match the specification of 'any statement that can fit
on one line' (which itself seems pretty exact to me).

>Then, if you have completed the specification, the problem likely is
>that your proposed grammar is either counter-intuitive, or
>unimplementable (depending on your specification).

Let's see which it is.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 18 04:32:31 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:32:31 +0100
Subject: Big dictionary manipulation
References: <bckl7v$92q$1@news.onet.pl>
		<bcklp1$k4g7g$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de> <20030617094745.557941ad.androflux@softhome.net.remove.to.reply>
Message-ID: <3EF0239F.3C19B122@hotmail.com>

Thomas G?ttler:

>> Objects are passed by reference in python. You only get problems
>> if your structure is bigger than your physical memory. If that's the
>> case, you can have a look at BTrees.

Jason Creighton:

> LOL! BTrees can be bigger than your phsical memory? :-)

What's funny about that?

BTrees can be as large as you can find storage for. To conduct any operation
with btrees, i.e. insertion, deletion, only requires that you have a single node
of the tree in memory at a time. They are used all the time in relational
databases, for example.

Perhaps you're confusing btrees with their less sophisticated cousins, "binary
trees"?

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_tree
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-tree

And even if you were, your comments don't apply to binary trees either. Any
node-base structure such as a tree can be made to work from disk instead of
memory.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From ofnap at nus.edu.sg  Sun Jun 29 19:09:54 2003
From: ofnap at nus.edu.sg (Ajith Prasad)
Date: 29 Jun 2003 16:09:54 -0700
Subject: AN ENROLMENT PROJECTION PROBLEM
References: <37ee60c8.0306290442.60be2b57@posting.google.com> <3EFF0B14.4090307@blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT>
Message-ID: <37ee60c8.0306291509.5f8fd5f9@posting.google.com>

Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy <paddy3118 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT> wrote in message news:<3EFF0B14.4090307 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT>...
> Ajith Prasad wrote:
> > I would appreciate advice on how best to formulate the following
> > problem in Python. I have originally posted the problem to the J
> > Programming forum and received a one-line formulation ((#s)
> > (|.s)&(+/@:*)\ I)! I was wondering what the equivalent Python
> > formulation would be.
> 
> Wow! that one line formulation is dense.
> Why do you *want* a compact answer?
> I'm curious, if you put it down, do you have problems undestanding the 
> above program in a weeks time?
> Or in a days time?
> 
> Cheers, Pad.
> 
> 
> > 
> > The Problem:
> > 
> > The enrolment E(n) of an institution at the beginning of year n is the
> > sum of the intake for year n, I(n), and the survivors from the intakes
> > of previous r years. Thus, if s(1) is the 1-year intake survival rate,
> > s(2) is the 2-year survival rate, etc, we have:
> > 
> > E(n)= I(n)+I(n-1)*s(1)+ I(n-2)*s(2)+...+I(n-r)*s(r)
> > E(n+1)= I(n+1)+I(n)*s(1)+I(n-1)*s(2)+... +I(n-r-1)*s(r)
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > E(n+k)= I(n+k)+I(n+k-1)*s(1)+I(n+k-2)*s(2)+...+I(n+k-r)*s(r)
> > 
> > Given:
> > (a) the actual intakes for the current and previous r years, I(n),
> > I(n-1),I(n-2),..,I(n-r), and the planned intakes for the next n+k
> > years: I(n+1), I(n+2),..., I(n+k), we have the intake vector I =
> > (I(n-r), I(n-r-1),...,I(n),I(n+1),..., I(n+k)); and
> > (b) the survival rate vector, s = (1,s(1), s(2),...,s(r))
> > Find:
> > The  k*1 enrolment projection column vector, E =
> > (E(n+1),E(n+2),...,E(n+k)) in terms of a k*(r+1) matrix P (derived
> > from
> > I) and the (r+1)*1 column vector, s.
> > 
> > I = P*s
> > 
> > Is there a compact Python representation of the relevant matrix P
> > where:
> > 
> > P = [I(n+1) I(n) I(n-1).. . I(n-r)
> >      I(n+2) I(n+1) I(n)...  I(n-r-1)
> >      .
> >      .
> >      I(n+k) I(n+k-1) I(n+k-2)... I(n+k-r)]
> > 
> > Alternatively, a non-matrix formulation of the problem would be
> > acceptable. Thanks in advance for any suggestions on how to proceeed.
I do not require an equally compact Python formulation - any solution
that works will do. The J solution works but I do not why! It was
formulated by a J expert and if one is very competent in J, I suppose
one could follow the logic. In Python, I look forward to a readable
and comprehensible solution. Thanks.



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Sat Jun 14 08:47:31 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 12:47:31 GMT
Subject: GUI
References: <3EE9E9CE.6020004@gmx.net> <mailman.1055590045.30746.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3eeb18c9.1586469222@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

> On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:12:14 +0200
> Tom <llafba at gmx.net> wrote:
> > I heard that it is possible to program GUI's with Python. I have to make 
> > some simple executable programs with a GUI. They should run on Windows. 
> > Unfortunately I am not very experienced with Python. That's why I would 
> > appreciate suggestions for an easy to use software. :-)

You can use GUI builders like Boa constructor or BlackAdder but
if its a simple GUI you will be just as quick using the native(ie
it comes with Python)  Tkinter toolkit. There is a very basic
intro to GUI programming using Tkinter on my web tutor:

http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld

If you think Tkinter is good enough for your needs there is a
much more advanced tutor linked from the Tkinter section of the
Python web site.

Alan G.



From ming at 0x01.com  Wed Jun 11 11:46:52 2003
From: ming at 0x01.com (Ming Hui Huang)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 08:46:52 -0700
Subject: snakedb -MySQL
References: <bc51mj$o81$1@news-reader13.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <a56963e7.0306110746.74bac60f@posting.google.com>

Hi Salvatore,

First of all thanks for using the snakedb module which I wrote to make
database access easier.

Yes, there is a way to set teh sorting criteria. Basically you can set
the "ORDER BY" string using the SnakeDbTable.setSelectOrder method.

Below is a sample test script that uses gadfly database to illustrate
the sort order criteria:

-------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

from snakedb import *
import sys
from string import lower, join, split

class PhoneBookDb(GadflySnakeDb):
        dbDir="/tmp"
        dbName="phonebook"

        def __init__(self):
                GadflySnakeDb.__init__(self,self.dbName, self.dbDir)

        def registerAllDbTables(self):
                self.registerDbTable(PersonTable())


class PersonTable(SnakeDbTable):
        tableName="person" 

        def __init__(self):
                sqlFields={ 
                #sqlfield: fieldtype
                'personId':'varchar',
                'personObjId':'varchar',
                'updatedOnTimeStamp':'varchar',
                'lastName':'varchar',
                'firstName':'varchar',
                'phone':'varchar'
                }
                SnakeDbTable.__init__(self, self.tableName, sqlFields)

class Person(SnakeDbObj):
        def __init__(self, db, detailsDict={}):
                SnakeDbObj.__init__(self, db, PersonTable.tableName,
detailsDict)

db=PhoneBookDb()
try:
        db.dropDb()
except:
        pass
db.createDb()
print "New Phone Book database created!"
personsInfo=[{ 'firstName':'Ming', 'lastName':'Huang',
'phone':'212-228-0933' },
{ 'firstName':'Thanos', 'lastName':'Vassilakis',
'phone':'212-228-1933' },
{ 'firstName':'Sue', 'lastName':'Lee', 'phone':'212-228-6633' },
{ 'firstName':'John', 'lastName':'Lee', 'phone':'212-228-5555' }]
for personInfo in personsInfo:
        p=Person(db, personInfo)
        p.create()
        print "Created person: %s"%p.details


print "\n\nListing of all persons without sorting order: "
query=SnakeDbQuery(snakeDb=db,pageSize=5,pageNumber=1)
person=Person(db)
print "\n\nListing of all persons with sorting order by lastname then
firstname: "
person.dbTable.setSelectOrder("firstName, lastName")
print person.find(query)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember to set the setSelectOrder back to empty string if you no
longer want the sort criteria.
Hope this info is helpful.

Regards,
Ming


Salvatore <artyprog at wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<bc51mj$o81$1 at news-reader13.wanadoo.fr>...
> Hello,
> 
> Does anybody knows how to make
> enhanced criteria like sorting with snakedb
> without using sql request ?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Regards
> 
> Salvatore



From jeremy at alum.mit.edu  Thu Jun 26 16:55:31 2003
From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: 26 Jun 2003 16:55:31 -0400
Subject: GC time debug...
In-Reply-To: <20030626064759.GD11302@c1.neotonic.com>
References: <20030626064759.GD11302@c1.neotonic.com>
Message-ID: <1056660930.9121.11.camel@slothrop.zope.com>

On Thu, 2003-06-26 at 02:47, David Jeske wrote:
> In debugging Python GC actions, it's really useful to know the amount
> of time Python spends doing the GC cycle (i.e. the pause time). I made
> a quick hack to do this, and I've attached the patch. It needs to be
> fixed to be portable. I wanted to just call floattime() from
> timemodule.c, but it wasn't clear how to do this from gcmodule.c.

Out of curiousity, what is this useful for?  Do you look for long pause
times and try to change the code to reduce them?

Jeremy






From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun 16 10:22:58 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:22:58 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure>
Message-ID: <3EEDD2C2.1D8527D7@engcorp.com>

Donn Cave wrote:
> 
> One would think from reading this thread that this would be good
> for safety but hard to program for, but it's actually the opposite.
> I'm told that type checking is practically irrelevant to safety
> critical standards, because the testing needed to meet standards
> like that makes type correctness redundant.  

I haven't directly worked in aviation software myself, but a friend
(who is beginning to use Python more) who works in that area has
described much of his employer's development environment to me.

One interesting thing is that C is the mainstay language, and we
all know how type-safe it is.

Definitely the near-onerous testing requirements, as well as the
traceability permeating every aspect of the development from 
requirements to delivery, are what give the regulatory agencies
the necessary level of confidence to allow the software to be
released, not the use of type-safe languages.  (So far... but I
wouldn't be surprised to see bureaucratic/ivory-tower thinking
lead to a change in this policy.  Probably already happening... :-( )

-Peter



From rogue9 at ntlworld.com  Sat Jun  7 09:21:47 2003
From: rogue9 at ntlworld.com (Rogue9)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 14:21:47 +0100
Subject: Factorials
Message-ID: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01>

Pardon me but could anyone enlighten me if python2.2 has a math function
to call to do factorials of integers?If not then is there a code snippet
for doing such a thing available?I tried to write some code for this
myself but with little success.
Thanks
Lol



From jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Jun 23 17:11:26 2003
From: jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk (Jeremy Yallop)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 21:11:26 GMT
Subject: Getting a list of an object's methods?
References: <Xns93A2DFFF69BDCfreddiethescaryeleph@203.10.110.105> <bd498r$o0ehq$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de> <yfsk7be5e5f.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <bd4sst$pcteb$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de> <yfsel1l651p.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <bd7qdu$pkgc5$2@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> The premises are right, but they don't entail the conclusion. `dir`s behavior
> is not guaranteed to be stable, but `inspect.getmembers`'s obviously is [1].

[further logic and "obvious" things snuipped]

All very well, but inspect.getmembers is implemented using dir() /now/, 
and doesn't return all of the methods in the /currently-existing/ 
versions of Python that the OP wants to use.  It isn't an appropriate
solution, unfortunately.

> I don't think "What methods does this object have?" is a question
> that only a python wizard should be able to ask and receive a
> well-defined answer.

Well, that's certainly true.

Jeremy.



From creedy at mitretek.org  Thu Jun 26 16:29:07 2003
From: creedy at mitretek.org (Chris Reedy)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:29:07 -0400
Subject: How to memoize functions?
Message-ID: <3efb54b3$1_2@corp-news.newsgroups.com>

I would like to memoize (I think I've got that right) a collection of 
functions for a project I'm working.

<Aside for those not familiar with memoizing functions:>

   Given:

     def foo(a,b,c):
       return <result of large ugly computation>

   Memoization of foo would look like:

     def foo(a,b,c):
       if <this set of arguments has already been handled>
         return <result of prior computation>
       else
         <do large ugly computation>
         <save result>
         return <result>

</Aside>

The obvious way to memoize a function would be to keep a dictionary with 
keys being tuples (or maybe dictionaries) of previous argument lists 
and values being the results of the previous computations.

Unfortunately, this will really mess up garbage collection, since 
objects that are arguments could never be collected. Something like 
weakref.WeakKeyDictionary seems to be the obvious solution. However, a 
WeakKeyDictionary won't work since it can't use a tuple as a key, and 
wouldn't do the right thing, even if it could.

The only solution I've got so far is to implement a new class, imitating 
WeakKeyDictionary. I started down this road, but the implementation 
started getting a little involved, since I needed two dictionaries, one 
for the argument list -> result mapping and one to keep track of which 
objects appear in which argument lists (since an argument tuple must be 
deleted when _any_ of its arguments becomes garbage).

So ... does anyone have any suggestions and/or has anyone already done 
something like this (I couldn't find anything in the cookbook at 
ActiveState).

   Thanks in advance, Chris




From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Fri Jun 13 07:36:22 2003
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:36:22 +0200
Subject: shlex last token
Message-ID: <bcccud$lcd$1@swifty.westend.com>

I am trying to use shlex.shlex and I don't no how to tell that the
input stream is at EOF (other than using exceptions).

### My code:

import shlex
inp = file("someTextFile")
sc = shlex.shlex()
sc.push_source(inp)

while sc.state:
     print sc.get_token()

sc.state doesn't change when there is no token left nor does sc.token.
I also tried inp.tell() and inp.closed, but it seems that the
get_token() method raises a ValueError exception instead of setting
a flag if it hits the end of the input stream. I can bracket the
while loop with try..except but I find that ugly. Does somebody know
a better way?

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------





From hamonlypaulpaterson at houston.rr.com  Sun Jun  1 11:26:18 2003
From: hamonlypaulpaterson at houston.rr.com (Paul Paterson)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 15:26:18 GMT
Subject: gc win32com server
Message-ID: <uWoCa.13696$AB1.531535@twister.austin.rr.com>

I have an application written as a COM server which is py2exe'd and run on
my client's machines. Some VB code creates instances of the Python COM
objects and then uses them. The problem is that, under certain
circumstances, the VB code will exit normally but the COM server will remain
running in the background.

I did some investigation and managed to solve some instances of this problem
by breaking a circular object reference (just doing a del on an
obj.attribute). However, the problem still occurs in other circumstances,
where I know that I have a large structure in Python with circular
references.

My assumption is that the Python gc scheme can't resolve my circular
references and therefore somehow keeps the COM object alive. Is this a
reasonable assumption? Note that no other object has alink to the COM object
itself, the circular references occur on objects which the COM object has a
reference to.

Clearly one approach to resolve the problem might be to remove all circular
references in the code. However, this is a fairly involved job as they are
fairly intrinsic to the code that uses them so "fixing" this would involve a
re-arch of that part of the code.

I have implemented another "fix" - I kill the COM EXE the next time the App
starts. However, this is just plain ugly and is also slow.

Is there a some other way to send the COM server a "die now" message from
the client side?

Alternatively is there something I could do on the gc side to help the
collector sweep up my objects.








From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Jun 21 11:39:42 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 17:39:42 +0200
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org> <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com> <slrnbf8tsd.qc.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <m3r85nmoch.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> writes:

[In response to Alan Kennedy claiming that HTML is the most widely
used [electronic] document format in human history?]
> It isn't.  That award would go to 7-bit ASCII plain text.
> 
> Facetious?  No.

Do you have numbers to prove that? Looking at my disk:

martin at mira:~> locate .html|wc
  41104   41104 2425699
martin at mira:~> locate .txt|wc
   7958    7963  389013

So I do have way more .html files than .txt files. I haven't counted
source code files, here, obviously, but I'm not sure whether those
would qualify as '7-bit ASCII plain text'.

Regards,
Martin



From prabu at ti.com  Sun Jun  8 23:49:37 2003
From: prabu at ti.com (Prabu)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 09:19:37 +0530
Subject: Newbie question on C extensions!
Message-ID: <bc10bc$dml$1@home.itg.ti.com>

Hi there, I have been trying to use Python extensions with C. I have read
the ext.pdf manual in the 2.2.2 release package. With the same examples
given in the pdf, I am not able to compile a C source file. I get the error
message like "cl.exe - invalid command or file name" during compilation of
this C file from setup.
My system:
Intel box running WinXP professional
IDE - LCC (no MSVC)
Full python 2.2.2 installation

Could anyone please let me know why this occurs? Is MSVC not available one
of the issues?

cheers
Prabindh





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Jun 12 12:28:00 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:28:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: inheritance
References: <bca77e$aq2$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <bca874$cop$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <bca8di$e84$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <Xns9398B115E1308duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Sean Ross" <frobozz_electric at hotmail.com> wrote in 
news:bca8di$e84$1 at driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca:

> class Base:
>     def __init__(self, value):
>         self.value = value
>     def __mul__(self, other):
>         return self.__class__(self.value * other.value)
> 
> class Child(Base):
>     def __init__(self, value):
>         Base.__init__(self, value)
> 
> x = Base(2)
> y = Base(3)
> z = Child(4)
> w = Child(5)
> print x*y
> print z*w
> 
> """OUTPUT
><__main__.Base instance at 0x009991E0>
><__main__.Child instance at 0x009991E0>
> """

But:
>>> x*z
<__main__.Base instance at 0x009392A0>
>>> z*x
<__main__.Child instance at 0x00934520>

For consistency you may need to base the type on both self and other.

e.g.
class Base:
    def __init__(self, value):
        self.value = value
    def __mul__(self, other):
        if issubclass(self.__class__, other.__class__):
            resType = self.__class__
        else:
            resType = other.__class__
        return resType(self.value * other.value)

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From lazypointer at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 21 15:08:22 2003
From: lazypointer at yahoo.com (Byron Morgan)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:08:22 GMT
Subject: WTF is Fibonnacci
References: <7inIa.55233$Io.5225846@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <I1oIa.9952$5d.738838@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <G22Ja.570$HI.61785282@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:I1oIa.9952$5d.738838 at news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> Output:
>
> 0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181
>

Which reminds me of the IQ test usually failed by anyone over the age of 7:

Find the pattern in this series:

1 11 21 1112 3112 211213 312213 212223 114213

Or at least I think that is it.

Byron Morgan





From avner at skilldesign.com  Thu Jun 19 07:10:18 2003
From: avner at skilldesign.com (Avner Ben)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:10:18 +0200
Subject: ftplib question
Message-ID: <3ef19a1c$1@news.012.net.il>

How do I find the year of a remote file in ftplib?

retrlines('LIST') seems to include only month day and hour.

    Avner.





From Shaun.Press at anu.edu.au  Wed Jun 11 22:09:22 2003
From: Shaun.Press at anu.edu.au (Shaun Press)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:09:22 +1000
Subject: Jython anyone?
In-Reply-To: <f0a79190.0306111106.4cae235@posting.google.com>
References: <f0a79190.0306111106.4cae235@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3ee7df98@clarion.carno.net.au>

anthony wrote:
> Does anyone have strong feelings one way or another regarding Jython? 
> I just started playing around with it, but the limited online
> discussions and the sort have me wondering if it's worthwhile.  Any
> thoughts?
> 
> Anthony

It's pretty good, especially if you are trying to use Python on an area 
where Java is heavily used.
I've mainly used it to do things with GUI's as I've found Tkinter 
doesn't do the things I want, and lacks any sort of printing support. I 
usually use javax.swing instead of tkinter.
The only problem I've had is in the area of single inheritence rules 
from java. If I'm inheriting one class and implementing another, Jython 
complains if I include both clases in a staemet like
def class(inherit_class,implement_class) even though this is valid under 
Java.




From ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca  Fri Jun 27 12:36:05 2003
From: ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca (Aurélien Géron)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:36:05 +0200
Subject: manipulating PowerPoint with Python?
References: <5SYKa.713$Gf3.2535@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <bdhros$kl2$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

> Hi.  Has anyone ever written scripts to extract data from PowerPoint using
> Python?  I know I could dredge through the VB examples in MSDN, and
> translate, but if someone's already done this, I'd be grateful for a few
> examples.  (I have slides done in PPT that I want to convert to simple
> HTML --- using "Save as HTML" in PPT creates a lot more goo than I want to
> have to wade through.)
>
> Thanks,
> Greg

Couldn't you use "Save as HTML" in PPT and then write a simple parser that
would remove the goo?  I really don't know which is better because I haven't
seen your ppt generated HTML files, but it's another direction you may want
to look at.

BTW, you may want to check out:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-htmllib.html

Or find some other parser:
http://www.google.com/search?q=python+html+parser

Hope this helps,
Aur?lien





From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jun  4 19:58:09 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 00:58:09 +0100
Subject: using urllib or httplib to post with ENCTYPE=mulitpart/form-data
References: <mailman.1054758548.9033.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87he751jla.fsf@pobox.com>

Kevin Carlson <khcarlso at bellsouth.net> writes:
[...]
> I am trying to post to a form using httplib or urllib.  I have done
> this successfully before with httplib, but when the enctype must be
> multipart/form-data, things go awry.
> 
> I tried using a header {'Content-Type' : 'multipart/form-data', ...}
> that I encode with urlencode and then pass to the
> HTTPConnection.request method, but the server is returning a code
> indicating a bad request.  I have done a lot of troubleshooting on
> this and the encoding type is the only remaining issue.
> 
> Can anyone shed some light on how to accomplish a POST of this type?

Erm, I'm hesitant to suggest this module, because the version that
does INPUT TYPE=FILE file upload -- which I'm guessing is what you
want to do -- is currently still in alpha (I think I've only tested it
against the cgi module and it only does single-file upload -- not
multiple files -- and internally it's clunky, too).  But if it doesn't
work, tell me and I'll likely fix it quickly.

Anyway (using urllib2 here for convenience, but you can use urllib
too, with minor changes), untested:

from urllib2 import urlopen
from ClientForm import ParseResponse

forms = ParseResponse(urlopen("http://blah.com/"))
form = forms[0]
# do some form filling, eg.
form["uname"] = "bob"
form["pwd"] = "XXX"
# add file to upload
f = open("/some/file.txt")
form.add_file(f, content_type="text/plain", name="file.txt")

# pass name to click method if there's more than one button
response = urlopen(form.click())

# urllib2's responses are file objects with some extra stuff:
print response2.geturl()  # url
print response2.info()  # headers
print response2.read():  # body (readline, readlines also work IIRC)


you'd need this:

http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientForm/src/ClientForm-0.1.1a.tar.gz

home page of code:

http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientForm/

HTH


John



From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Wed Jun  4 19:17:59 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 16:17:59 -0700
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1054718112.3943.python-list@python.org> <bbl189$fs9$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0306041517.7c34ae85@posting.google.com>

"Sean Ross" <frobozz_electric at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bbl189$fs9$1 at driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>...
> "Gerrit Holl" <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1054718112.3943.python-list at python.org...
> >
> > I don't see how properties would fit into any of these syntaxes
> > though, because the property() function takes multiple arguments.
> >
> 
> 
> Perhaps you would have something like the following:
> 
> def foo(self) [property]:
>     "here's the properties doc string"
>     def get():
>         return self.__foo
>     def set(value):
>         self.__foo = value
>     def del():
>         del self.__foo
> 
> Where the property attribute would signal the interpreter to look for nested
> functions 'get', 'set', and possibly 'del'


If you do this:

    def defineproperty(name,bases,clsdict):
        getter = clsdict.get('get',None)
        setter = clsdict.get('set',None)
        deller = clsdict.get('del',None)
        docstr = clsdict.get('__doc__',None)
        return property(getter,setter,deller,docstr)


Then you can make a property metaclass, like this:

    class foo:
        "here's the properties doc string"
        __metaclass__ = defineproperty
        def get(self):
            return self.__foo
        def set(self,value):
            self.__foo = value
        def del(self):
            del self.__foo


I've never used properties, but if I ever do, this is how I'm doing
it.  In fact, I would probably do this with static and class
functions, too.  (I would take the time to make a base class, though,
so I wouldn't have to set __metaclass__ explicitly.)  I think it
should be the STANDARD Python way to define properties and other
special descriptors.


-- 
CARL BANKS



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jun 10 01:01:36 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 01:01:36 -0400
Subject: Rudeness with names (was Re: interpreted)
References: <M6icneVATOpIWn6jXTWcrg@comcast.com> <5yednTf1NoAdanmjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1055194463.17365.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc3ong$i2h$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1055194463.17365.python-list at python.org>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=  <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:
>Ifman1 wrote:
>> 
>> what do you mean "anonymous coward"???
>
>Somebody not using their real name on usenet and using a pseudonym like 
>"Ifman1" instead. I call these people "anonymous cowards" :-)^
>
>In some cases it's their intention to use these pseudonyms, in some 
>cases they just haven't set up their mail client properly. In any case, 
>I give them a nudge this way.

Well, I wasn't paying much attention earlier, but I have to say that I
consider this rather rude.  How the heck do you know what someone's
"real name" is?  I say this as someone who received more than my fair
share of such rudeness.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Wed Jun 18 22:01:01 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:01:01 GMT
Subject: Is python good for making database work short?
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbf26as.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 18 Jun 2003 18:27:10 -0700, Steve wrote:
> One part of the problem involved copying tables from one database on
> one server, to another database on another server.
> [...]
> A coworker who is a foxpro nut did all of this in about 3 lines of
> code.
> [...]
> However I was wondering if python could have made this job this easy. 
> Does python make manipulating databases and data short work?

I certainly hope so; I'm soon going to embark on a very similar task
(like countless others around the world), an automated process to move
data from one database to another with a totally different schema.

I really want to do it in Python, and my brief glimpse at Python's ODBC
capability is encouraging.  (The source database can only be accessed by
a proprietary ODBC layer.)

I'll be very interested to see what response people give to this query.

-- 
 \         "Broken promises don't upset me. I just think, why did they |
  `\                                      believe me?"  -- Jack Handey |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jun 10 04:31:21 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 08:31:21 GMT
Subject: cut off \n
References: <3EE4ACCD.70000@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <bc450p$sl8$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 17:50:37 +0200, Tom <llafba at gmx.net> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I have to read data from a file to a list. Unfortunately most of the 
>data that I read into my little list ends with a linefeed \n.
>Right now I get rid of this by just cutting off the last character. (a = 
>l[:-1]).
If you are reading the whole file, you could just do
     lines = file('somefile').read().splitlines()

 >>> help(str.splitlines)
 Help on method_descriptor:

 splitlines(...)
     S.splitlines([keepends]) -> list of strings

     Return a list of the lines in S, breaking at line boundaries.
     Line breaks are not included in the resulting list unless keepends
     is given and true.

 >>> 'abc\r\ndef\n3 trailing spaces:   \nend.'.splitlines()
 ['abc', 'def', '3 trailing spaces:   ', 'end.']

Note that the trailing spaces were preserved, but '\r\n' and '\n' were both eliminated.


Others have suggested methods of doing it line by line. Note that you can (ver >=2.2.2 ?)
strip characters from a defined set, not just a single character, or all whitespace:

 >>> help(str.rstrip)
 Help on method_descriptor:

 rstrip(...)
     S.rstrip([sep]) -> string or unicode

     Return a copy of the string S with trailing whitespace removed.
     If sep is given and not None, remove characters in sep instead.
     If sep is unicode, S will be converted to unicode before stripping

 >>> 'abc123\r\n'.rstrip('\n')
 'abc123\r'
 >>> 'abc123\r\n'.rstrip('\n\r')
 'abc123'
 >>> 'abc123\r\n'.rstrip('2\n\r3')
 'abc1'

The default strips whitespace, which might be more than just '\n'

 >>> 'abc123\r\n'.rstrip()
 'abc123'

>My problem is that sometimes the last line of the file has a \n and 
>sometimes not. With the method above I sometimes cut off parts of my 
>string. So it would be much nicer if I can find out if the data does 
>have a \n and then cut it off.
>
>This is probably a very common problem but I am pretty new to Phython 
>and could find anything useful with google. :-(
>
>Thanks, Tom
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From shangius at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 13 07:54:40 2003
From: shangius at yahoo.com (Sami Hangaslammi)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 04:54:40 -0700
Subject: Glue code
References: <2996386.1055452530@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <6298355.0306130354.41ae3f83@posting.google.com>

Pyrex (http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/) is so far
the easiest and most pleasant way I've found to extend Python with a
bit of C.


DB_RobertP <member31018 at dbforums.com> wrote in message news:<2996386.1055452530 at dbforums.com>...
> What systems do people use to easily make C/C++ code visible to Python?
> I'm currently checking out Swig, but I've heard others mentioned. If
> anyone has any experience with these systems, could you recommend one to
> look into? Also, any other general pointers when trying to extend C/C++
> code to python sctipts would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks!
> Robert



From just at xs4all.nl  Sun Jun  8 16:46:46 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 22:46:46 +0200
Subject: Characters in Python
References: <aaf09156.0306050423.21b45f6@posting.google.com> <23891c90.0306060626.24e6646d@posting.google.com> <aaf09156.0306071439.2a156033@posting.google.com> <m33cilxebk.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <just-266872.12001308062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1055097317.28762.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-1D1CCA.22464608062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.1055097317.28762.python-list at python.org>,
 Jp Calderone <exarkun at intarweb.us> wrote:

> > Is it possible to get at a list of the available encoding names at 
> > runtime?

>   No.  Rather than registering encodings, in the Python system, you register
> predicate functions.  When an encoding is requested, Python calls all the
> registered predicates in turn with the encoding name.  When one returns the
> appropriate values (encoder and decoder objects) rather than None, it uses
> those objects to handle the encoding.

I was afraid it worked like that... My use case is this: if a user opens 
a text file in my app that isn't ascii, I'd like to offer a dialog so 
the user can choose an encoding from a popup menu or a combo box. I 
guess I'll just hard code a list of encodings.

Just



From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Sun Jun  8 21:29:04 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:29:04 +1200
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
In-Reply-To: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <bc0mjk$e9fuv$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Aur?lien G?ron wrote:
> ** Why isn't Python shipped with wxPython instead of Tk ? **
> 
> Any comments on this ? Anyone else want to vote ?

In my opinion, neither Tk nor wxWindows (or any other gui
I've seen wrapped for Python so far) deserves to be blessed
as an official Python gui. They're all too un-Pythonic in
one way or another.

If anything of this sort is to go in the standard library,
it should have an API that is designed for Python from
the ground up. It should also preferably have an implementation
that's efficient and unbloated. Small is beautiful!

The current state of my thoughts on how to achieve this
can be found at

   http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python_gui/

The project has been languishing for a while, I'm sorry
to say, but I haven't abandoned it, and I hope to get back
to it as soon as Pyrex is bashed into shape...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From klapotec at nusurf.at  Mon Jun 16 17:52:12 2003
From: klapotec at nusurf.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:52:12 +0200
Subject: Loop from 'aaaa' to 'tttt' ?
References: <slrnberu4u.khj.lschaps@x11.informatik.uni-bremen.de>
 <3EEDFD89.CD2677D8@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030616234941.00D0.KLAPOTEC@nusurf.at>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> >>> set = 'acgt'
> >>> sets = [''.join(a,b,c,d) for a in set for b in set for c in set for d in set]

Shouldn't this be
sets = [''.join((a,b,c,d)) for a in set for b in set for c in set for d in set]
?
join doesn't like more than one argument...

> >>> sets
> ['aaaa', 'aaac', 'aaag', 'aaat', 'aaca', 'aacc', 'aacg', 'aact', 'aaga', 'aagc',
>  'aagg', 'aagt', 'aata', 'aatc', 'aatg', 'aatt', 'acaa', 'acac', 'acag', 'acat',
> ...[snip]...
>  'ttgg', 'ttgt', 'ttta', 'tttc', 'tttg', 'tttt']

just nit-picking...
Christopher Koppler <klapotec at nusurf.at>




From no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid  Mon Jun 16 08:48:01 2003
From: no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid (Robert Oschler)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:48:01 GMT
Subject: urlopen(), nntplib methods, and multi-threading?
Message-ID: <50jHa.2381$Hw.2251596@news2.news.adelphia.net>

When using the async methods like urlopen() and the methods in the nntplib
module, would multi-threading help to speed up parallel requests?  I could
see making a pool of worker threads to process several method calls in
parallel (e.g. - to multiple web pages on different sites, or multiple
newsgroups), to speed up site or forum scanning.

Is this premise valid?

thx

--
Robert Oschler,
Android Technologies, Inc.
http://www.androidtechnologies.com
- The home of Off-Book! (tm)
The scene memorization tool for Actors and Actresses!





From jtauber at jtauber.com  Sat Jun 21 14:31:03 2003
From: jtauber at jtauber.com (James Tauber)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:31:03 +0800
Subject: GUI interactive prompt with non-text output
In-Reply-To: <20030621180140.95B5E35244@www.fastmail.fm>
References: <20030621180140.95B5E35244@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20030621183103.57A9435F77@www.fastmail.fm>

I guess another term would be "graphical command-line interface".
http://www.xmlterm.com/ is sort of an example of what I'm after.

James

On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:01:40 +0800, "James Tauber" <jtauber at jtauber.com>
said:
> 
> Is anyone aware of extensions to a GUI interactive prompt (such as that
> in IDLE) where the statements executed might be able to produce a
> graphical output after the input prompt as well as text (as you would get
> if you did a "print").
> 
> I'm thinking along the lines of Mathematica, although another useful
> mental picture might be a board game where you enter your move at a
> prompt and then the board is drawn before giving you another prompt
> (which the ability to scroll back to see the boards after each move).
> 
> Hopefully I'm describing what I'm after clearly enough.
> 
> What I would most like is some sort of library / widget / extension to
> IDLE that is fairly generic, but another alternative would be open source
> software that does something like this in the specific that I could then
> make generic.
> 
> I thought I'd check if anyone knew of something like this before
> embarking on writing my own.
> 
> NOTE: I'm not necessarily tied to it being Tk-based (although that is
> what I know). If something exists in PyQt or wxWindows, I'm willing to
> use this as an excuse to learn them :-)
> 
> James
> -- 
>   James Tauber
>   http://jtauber.com/
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
-- 
  James Tauber
  http://jtauber.com/




From roy at panix.com  Fri Jun 27 15:37:10 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:37:10 -0400
Subject: Using Python as a tool for testing homogeneous systems
References: <mailman.1056740086.24783.python-list@python.org> <3efc9b25$0$49117$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <roy-F66CAC.15370927062003@reader1.panix.com>

>> Python is *too* damned good: and they haven't made me stop using 
>> it at work, either; in fact I've just spent a few weeks doing some
>> really intensive Python development... to test RPG code!

I don't see anything strange about that.  I used to work on a system 
that included a lot of TCL and SQL.  I wrote a lot of QA tools for that 
stuff in Python.



From listbox at cybereal.org  Sun Jun 15 14:26:32 2003
From: listbox at cybereal.org (Zac Jensen)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:26:32 -0600
Subject: Calling scripts from within scripts, is this possible?
In-Reply-To: <Eq1Ha.94$5d.30529@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <Eq1Ha.94$5d.30529@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <200306151226.36291.listbox@cybereal.org>

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Hash: SHA1

On Sunday 15 June 2003 10:47 am, Gerry Sutton wrote:
>
> 2)      When invoked, the master App. somehow loads and executes another
> script file that can access the Master Apps variables, Objects and make use
> of the modules imported by the Master App. The slave script sees these as
> though they were system or global services. The slave script is simple and
> may or may not import other modules for its own use and may or may not
> define its own classes, variables, etc. Usually this slave script will just
> be a set of procedural commands that make calls to resources defined and
> controlled by the master App.
>
> 3)      When execution reaches the end of the Slave script file the Master
> regains control and another slave script could be called.
>
>
>
> To reiterate, my question revolves around how to do steps 2) and 3)

execfile()

Found in builtins.

I had this same issue myself the first day I used python, being able to do 
this, is why I decided I liked python :) Though there are thousands of 
reasons beyond that now.

- -Zac
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From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Fri Jun  6 13:17:37 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:17:37 -0600
Subject: XMLRPC Authentication
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061210520.21215@ns0.tbye.com>
References: <3EE0B8B8.6070602@optonline.com> <20030606160231.6470A2026F@www.fastmail.fm> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061210520.21215@ns0.tbye.com>
Message-ID: <20030606171737.0145427ED0@www.fastmail.fm>

Would you mind explaining to me how you use them?  In conjunction with
the example in the cookbook perhaps...

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/81549

Thanks!
-Justin

On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:13:26 -0700 (PDT), "Dave Brueck"
<dave at pythonapocrypha.com> said:
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Justin Johnson wrote:
> 
> > I have a simple xmlrpc server (using xmlrpclib) that accepts requests
> > from clients and runs some administrative commands on a bunch of servers
> > I support.  I would like to lock down access to the service so that only
> > authorized users can use it, by authenticating with a user name and
> > password.
> >
> > Has anyone done this before?  Is there an already existent authentication
> > framework available I can use with xmlrpc?
> 
> I use the improvements to xmlrpclib listed here:
> 
> http://www.zope.org/Members/Amos/XML-RPC
> 
> -Dave
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Sun Jun  1 07:06:40 2003
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 1 Jun 2003 04:06:40 -0700
Subject: Socket to me (thanks)
References: <d3c9c04.0305310421.5fd089a8@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054386527.11661.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0306010306.7c9c9278@posting.google.com>

Many thanks for the replies that I've received. It will give me
something to chew over.

I'm thinking that I'm not entirely sure what it is I'm trying to
achieve myself. I had in mind executing python scripts on a remote
machine. Something along the lines of:

1. I update a copy of the intranet on my machine, and tell the server
that it has to perform a CVS UPDATE of the pages.
2. Another idea I had is for when I work from home, and want to update
files on a (non-web) project I'm working on. I send an email with the
file updates attached, and a script telling some kind of daemon what
to do with them. Obviously, some kind of security arrangement would
have to be come up with to authenticate the sender of the email.
3. Remote administration.

I've toyed with Pyro - which looks like it would do the kind of thing
I'd want it to - but alas, I couldn't get it to work from an initial
play, and I'd need to look at it more in-depth. I was impressed with
Twisted (!), and managed to get the echo server and client working
straight off. I also like the idea of the telnet daemon running
python.

One solution - albeit limited in some respects and not as fancy as the
some of the distributed computing modules provided for python - is to
have an incoming directory on a shared computer. A daemon periodically
polls the directory and processes what it sees.

Once again - many thanks for the help offered.



From grante at visi.com  Tue Jun  3 23:30:18 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 03:30:18 GMT
Subject: PySerial rereads its own data
References: <mailman.1054592105.28065.python-list@python.org> <3EDBE18C.2C58B42E@engcorp.com> <mailman.1054662920.14931.python-list@python.org> <bbjl2p$a1ndg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbdqqs8.ast.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <bbjl2p$a1ndg$1 at ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>, Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de) wrote:

> I missed your original post, so this is just a guess, but
> are you by any chance trying to use the same file object
> to both read and write the serial port?
> 
> I made that mistake once in C, and I got exactly that
> symptom. It seems that stdio gets its buffering in a
> knot if you try to do that.

If you're using open(), then stdio has nothing to do with it.

I've been doing Unix serial stuff for years and years, and I've always used
the same file descriptor for input and output without any problems.  I do it
every day in both C and Python.

> If that's the problem, the solution is to open the
> serial device twice, once for reading and once for
> writing, e.g.
> 
>    fin  = open("/dev/ttyS0", "r") # read from this one
>    fout = open("/dev/ttyS0", "w") # write to this one

Wait a minute. Are you talking about FILE pointers and fopen() or file
descriptors and open()?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Where's SANDY DUNCAN?
                                  at               
                               visi.com            



From tecnic at codidoc.com  Wed Jun 18 19:33:37 2003
From: tecnic at codidoc.com (Oscar Rambla)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:33:37 -0700
Subject: How to recognize a generator function?
Message-ID: <200306181630.59371.tecnic@codidoc.com>

Martin answered:
>The answer to that question is
>
>CO_GENERATOR=0x0020
>def isGeneratorfunction(f):
>  return (f.func_code.co_flags & CO_GENERATOR) != 0

Good Martin. You got it ( until the 2.3, isn't it?) Thank you!

Neil Wrote:
>There is no way to do that.  Think about:
>There are lots of ways to return iterators in Python.
>Generator-iterators are first class objects and be passed around.
>What are you really trying to do?

That's also true. I may have been 'wondering the moon'.

But supose you have a function that receive a function as an argument and must 
decide to call it depending on ( if it's a generation-function) there is no 
other generator/iterator of this function alive.
Of course you could  look on the iterators for each function you receive but 
would be better to filter it in advance.

By the way, Do you know what's happening with Quixote mailing-list?
I've tried to send some code but it seems dead.

Gon?alo wrote:
>And then again, why are you interested in such a difference? Seems
>like the typical YAGNI.

Could you spell it, please?

Oscar Rambla
CODI

-------------------------------------------------------






From member31018 at dbforums.com  Fri Jun 13 19:15:15 2003
From: member31018 at dbforums.com (DB_RobertP)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 23:15:15 +0000
Subject: boost python
Message-ID: <3001490.1055546115@dbforums.com>

Hello,
I'm hoping there are some boost heads here. I am looking for a good glue
code system for python. I've looked over some over the past couple of
days, and I'm thinking boost may be a good choice to learn more about.

I'm going to be porting python to a platform that will not support
dynamic linking of python modules. Will boost be something that needs to
be ported also? omg, if it is then it's out of the question. I don't
have the time. Otherwise the boost.python lib will need to be compiled
into my python core?

I'm kind of fuzzy about how boost works, so if anyone can correct me...
bjam will compile my code into some object files, optionally a lib, dll,
etc...  Could I possibly link the lib file (assuming it can export a
lib) into the python core? The boost.python code then interprets the
bjamed code at runtime? bah

I haven't been able to compile bjam because of my screwy system, so
until I get it straightened out, does someone know of where I can be a
pre-built exe?

Well, hopefully this makes sense enough to straighten out if anyone
cares to :D Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Robert

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From androflux at softhome.net.remove.to.reply  Tue Jun 17 11:47:45 2003
From: androflux at softhome.net.remove.to.reply (Jason Creighton)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:47:45 -0600
Subject: Big dictionary manipulation
References: <bckl7v$92q$1@news.onet.pl>
	<bcklp1$k4g7g$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20030617094745.557941ad.androflux@softhome.net.remove.to.reply>

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:55:21 +0200
Thomas G?ttler <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> wrote:

> Objects are passed by reference in python. You only get problems
> if your structure is bigger than your physical memory. If that's the
> case, you can have a look at BTrees.

LOL! BTrees can be bigger than your phsical memory? :-)

Jason Creighton



From suzuki-python at pixar.com  Mon Jun  9 01:30:33 2003
From: suzuki-python at pixar.com (e y suzuki)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 22:30:33 -0700
Subject: exceptions beyond errors?
Message-ID: <200306090530.h595UXl07899@eep.pixar.com>

i'm curious to know about ways that one could use exceptions
in python programs aside from just detecting errors.  so far
i' have read that they can be useful when a large amount of 
processing may need to be discarded, such as with branch-
and-bound and parsing algorithms.

are there additional non-error-detection cases where exceptions
are useful?

thanks in advance,
-eys





From listbox at cybereal.org  Sat Jun 14 05:53:48 2003
From: listbox at cybereal.org (Zac Jensen)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 03:53:48 -0600
Subject: Hot to get Python executable's path ??
In-Reply-To: <Law15-F110VHKgGcaJC00052a7e@hotmail.com>
References: <Law15-F110VHKgGcaJC00052a7e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200306140353.50375.listbox@cybereal.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Saturday 14 June 2003 03:38 am, vivek kumar wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>   I am writing a CGI app. I was trying to find out a way to change the #!
> line in the CGI scripts for different platforms using an install script.
> Like as I am developing it on windows so the line says
>
>          #!c:\python22\python.exe
>
> Now on linux it may be /usr/bin/python or /usr/local/bin/python and on
> windows also it may be anywhere the user has installed it. So is there any
> way to find out the path for that. I tried
>
>           distutils.sysconfig.get_config_var(...)
>
> with "exec_prefix" and "prefix". But on linux it showed me /usr only ? So
> is there any way to find the path for the Installed Python executable to
> substitute it in my CGI scripts?
>
> TIA and Kind Regards
> Vivek Kumar

The shebang only works on unix variant systems.  Windows simply ignores it and 
goes by the filename extension instead.  It's relatively safe bet that every 
modern *nix system that runs cgi scripts will have python in /usr/bin/python, 
if this isn't the case then you have two choices

a) Write in the README with your app to change the first line of the cgi 
script to be appropriate.

b) Write yourself a simple sh script that finds python and executes it based 
on a few simple possibilities or a configurable line or something of that 
nature.

I would go with a)

- -Zac
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From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Jun  9 19:35:13 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 16:35:13 -0700
Subject: Recall last result
In-Reply-To: <3EE510D0.DBD3CF5D@alcyone.com>
References: <3ee4577d$0$25096$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>
	 <3EE45AED.8A20FD8E@hotmail.com> <3EE45F0A.750D7AB3@alcyone.com>
	 <3EE46986.53EFF8EC@hotmail.com>  <3EE510D0.DBD3CF5D@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <1055201713.19144.34.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 15:57, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Alan Kennedy wrote:
> 
> > Just in case he wasn't, then perhaps you can enlighten us on how to
> > solve the
> > problem in the general case?
> 
> I'm not aware of any way to solve it in the general case.

I thought assignment was the standard way to solve it in any case <wink>

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From abli at freemail.hu  Sat Jun 14 14:15:41 2003
From: abli at freemail.hu (Abel Daniel)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 20:15:41 +0200
Subject: Canvas rectangle filling
In-Reply-To: <20030614172720.24578.qmail@webmail18.rediffmail.com>
References: <20030614172720.24578.qmail@webmail18.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <20030614181541.GA666@hooloovoo>

Well, a trivial work-around is to create _two_ rectangles:

canvas.create_rectangle(100,150,150,200,fill=<bgcolor>,outline=<bgcolor>)
canvas.create_rectangle(100,150,150,200,fill='black', stipple="@lines.xbm")
The first one will cover whatever is beneath.

The <bgcolor> at the first rectangle should be set to the canvas's
background color. The default background color is '#d9d9d9' (at least
for me on Linux, might be different elsewhere, or depending on the
screen's bitdepth, but I doubt it).

Abel Daniel




From domma at procoders.net  Thu Jun 12 04:47:10 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:47:10 +0200
Subject: python2.3/sockets/urllib2/timeout
Message-ID: <bc9emf$ctd$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

according to the documentation, sockets now have a timeout value in python
2.3. But does urllib2 make use of it? Is there way to specifiy this value
for urllib2?

regards,
Achim





From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Jun  5 19:58:19 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:58:19 -0600
Subject: Python IO performance?
References: <m33civ37b2.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <ul365nkksho.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <bbol6r$r70$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>

Mike Romberg:
>  I'm not so certain that these are equivalent.  I'm not really a perl
> expert, but I bet the perl version behaves more like the traditional
> cat in that it just sends the data from one source to the sink.

They are equivalent.  The fileinput module was written to mimic
Perl's behaviour for doing 'while (<>)'

> But
> the python fileinput module is reading the data a *line* at a time.
> This means that it has to examine each character to find the newlines.

So is Perl's.

>   I whiped up this example which is probably not equivalent either
> (benchmarks being what they are):

Perl's also tracks the line number, and will iterate through several
files if given in @ARGV (resetting the line numbers appropriately).
fileinput does this as well.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From and-google at doxdesk.com  Mon Jun 23 18:49:42 2003
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 15:49:42 -0700
Subject: CGI and Unicode
References: <545cb8c2.0306231007.4a3c07a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0306231449.3f270fd2@posting.google.com>

jhefferon at smcvt.edu (Jim Hefferon) wrote:

> the best that I can hope for is to set the page with the form on it
> to be showing, say UTF-8, and then the data should show up UTF-8
> encoded at my site.  

Yes. Theoretically you should also be able to use the accept-charset
attribute on <form>, but many common browsers ignore that.

> But when I ask what is the type of the variable that I get from 
> the cgi module, it comes out as StringType, not UnicodeType.

Yes, you have to decode all submitted strings manually when using the
cgi module.

You don't actually lose anything this way, because although browsers
are *supposed to* submit charset information when they send a multipart/
form-data request, they actually don't, so you have to guess from the
encoding you originally sent them.

Plug: you might want to look at:

  http://www.doxdesk.com/software/py/form.html

This is a replacement for the 'cgi' module which tries to make things
generally less hassle; it will optionally give you Unicode input
automatically, for one.

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/



From llafba at gmx.net  Thu Jun 26 15:42:23 2003
From: llafba at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:42:23 +0200
Subject: always fill out complete window
Message-ID: <3EFB4C9F.8020709@gmx.net>

Hi folks,

I have a splitter window in a GUI that I built. I added a TextCtrl 
window to the right side of my splitter window. Because I don't want to 
add anything else to this side of the window it would be great if the 
TextCtrl window could fill out the complete side. I couldn't find the 
appropriate command or configuration to resize the TextCtrl window 
automatically no matter what I do with my mainframe window.

Thank you for your help.
Tom




From zathras_DESP at M_thwackey.com  Sat Jun  7 08:37:00 2003
From: zathras_DESP at M_thwackey.com (Zath)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 13:37:00 +0100
Subject: Postfix/Prefix Operators (++,--)
References: <mailman.1054878191.16140.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2VkEa.35580$xd5.1670190@stones.force9.net>

Paraphrasing hostmaster:
> Why can't I do this in python ?
>    i,j=1,1
>    a=i++
>    b=j--

Suppose we *could*. What would this mean? Well, first off, lets
change the example slightly so that it _looks_ implementable.
   i,j=1,1
   a=i.pp()
   b=j.mm()

Where we expect x.pp() to act like x++, and x.mm() to act like x--.

What would these functions need to do? In order to keep the i++
semantics happy, the pp() function would need to look something
like this:

   def pp(self): # Version 1
      return self
      self=self+1 # This also needs executing...

But *that won't work* - you're changing what self is bound to - the
self+1 expression creates a new value for self to bind to, it
doesn't update the thing that self is bound to. (Let alone
continuing doing things after returning!)

So lets think - how _could_ we do this if we had C like variables?
If we make self a pointer at the memory location containing the
value then we could have something like this:
   def pp(*self): # Version 2
      return *self
      *self = *self +1 # We still need to get here.

In that situation (if you could implement this - you can't) we
would have your desired semantics. However this can't be done with
Python because a) ints are immutable - you can't update them
_in place_ which is what this requires b) You can't do things
in functions in python after returning the values. (In exactly the same
way as in C you can't implement postfix type functions...)

You can emulate however the following behaviour:
   i,j=1,1
   a=++i
   b=++j

Since you update the value before returning it, but it does require
you to create mutable integers, and your user code could look like
this:
   i,j=mInt(1),mInt(1)
   a=i.pp()
   b=j.mm()

Your mutable Int class would inherit from int, and implement the
same interface, and could partially look like this:
class mInt(int):
   def __init__(self,*args):
       super(mInt, self).__init__(self,*args)
       self._value = args[0]
   def __repr__(self):
       return str(self._value)
   def pp(self):
      self._value+=1
      return self
   def __add__(self,x):
      return mInt(self._value+x)
   def mm(self):
      self._value-=1
      return self
   def __add__(self,x):
      return mInt(self._value+x)
   def __sub__(self,x):
      return mInt(self._value-x)

The key difference though is that with this example, you've
changed ints from being immutable to mutable objects. Also you'd
have to allow postfix operations - operations that continue
doing things after returning - without explicit callback.

Also your new syntax could be confusing for C users:

   x.pp() equivalent to ++x
   x.mm() equivalent to --x

Given there's few situations where:
   a=c++

Is truly clearer than:
   a  = c
   c += 1

I'm personally glad that somethings that can be considered
immutable stay that way!


Michael




From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Mon Jun  9 04:04:25 2003
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 01:04:25 -0700
Subject: Directory & File Monitoring
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306060731.21813c29@posting.google.com> <r867drsc.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <8360efcd.0306090004.7e3bb568@posting.google.com>

stevesusenet at yahoo.com:
> I would like to write a python script for windows 2000 that will log
> who/what touches a particular file in a particular directory.

Thomas Hellet:
> The win32all extensions have Find[First|Next]ChangeNotification
> functions which allow to do this. They are (why?) both in the win32api
> and the win32file module.

You might want to look at my (admittedly naive) use of this:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/156178

Tim Golden



From dloolb at sinatown.com  Wed Jun 25 08:49:45 2003
From: dloolb at sinatown.com (dlo_olb)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:49:45 +0000
Subject: New style class & Old style class in Python
Message-ID: <3041111.1056545385@dbforums.com>

Hi,

I came across some posts here mentioning new/old style class in
python, would anyone care to elaborate them or point me to some
relevant online doc?

Thanks!

--
dlo_olb


Posted via http://dbforums.com



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jun 10 21:26:52 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:26:52 -0700
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <mailman.1055261361.12074.python-list@python.org> <v0vcev8pngsr6euu8lvl9l4pbqe2fnrgpc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EE6855C.952B7572@alcyone.com>

Courageous wrote:

> Failure to establish a benefit is not an existence proof of a
> detriment. Be that as it may, I agree with you that an alternate
> word would be helpful (although it has the disadvantage of breaking
> backwards compatability, whereas reusing an old keyword does not).
> to muddle things up.

Well, it doesn't have to.  The required keyword here would be
subordinate -- i.e., it's only recognized as a keyword in these
particular circumstances -- and so could be used as a legitimate
variable elsewhere.  This is true of the `as' keyword, for instance;
nothing prevents you from having a variable named `as':

>>> as = 1
>>> as
1
>>> from time import time as as
>>> as()
1055294800.0949579

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ But who shall dwell in these worlds if they be inhabited?
\__/  Johannes Kepler



From waldbie at attglobal.net  Wed Jun  4 03:32:29 2003
From: waldbie at attglobal.net (Carl Waldbieser)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 00:32:29 -0700
Subject: JavaScript parser in Python
Message-ID: <hDeDa.9103$945.25982@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

Does anyone know of a Python module that can parse a JavaScript source file?
I am intersted in checking the file to see if it is syntactically correct,
as well as possibly stripping out whitespace and comments.  I found a couple
JavaScript compression utilities after doing a Google search, but many of
them are themselves written in JavaScript, execute in a browser, and tend to
be somewhat slow for very large JavaScript files.  A pythonic solution has a
certain appeal to me because I have always found Python very easy an
intuitive to use in the past.  Thanks in advance.

Carl Waldbieser





From jtauber at jtauber.com  Wed Jun  4 11:53:24 2003
From: jtauber at jtauber.com (James Tauber)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 23:53:24 +0800
Subject: JavaScript parser in Python
In-Reply-To: <3EDDEF4D.CEB99B24@engcorp.com>
References: <hDeDa.9103$945.25982@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> <mailman.1054702568.9014.python-list@python.org> <bbk4m4$1k2n$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz> <3EDDEF4D.CEB99B24@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030604155324.435641F5E2@www.fastmail.fm>

On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 09:08:29 -0400, "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com>
said:
> Just to clarify, in case you weren't aware "Frantisek":  Java is *not*
> related to Javascript.  The two are very different beasts and have next
> to nothing in common.

As Bill Joy once commented, the only thing they have in common is the
first four leters.

James
-- 
  James Tauber
  http://jtauber.com/




From MK at foo.com  Thu Jun 26 14:55:30 2003
From: MK at foo.com (MK)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:55:30 +0200
Subject: Exposing object model in Python?
Message-ID: <bdffi1$skho2$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>

Hi all,

What would be the best way to expose the object model
of a Python application?

If I package my app with py2exe, can I ship Python
intepreter and access py2exe-cised app through Python
scripts then?





From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jun  3 23:27:13 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 03 Jun 2003 22:27:13 -0500
Subject: how to create module documentation: gendoc? pythondoc? other?
In-Reply-To: <slrnbdocuq.che.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
References: <ec338771.0306022118.363faa6b@posting.google.com>
	 <slrnbdocuq.che.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <1054697233.722.12.camel@lothlorien>

On Tue, 2003-06-03 at 00:30, Ben Finney wrote:
> There is a great momentum behind the docutils project, using
> reStructured Text as the preferred docstring format:
> 
>   <http://docutils.sourceforge.net/>
> 
> Currently, though, docutils is still in development.  I'm not sure of
> the preferred docstring-to-documentation generator for released versions
> of Python.

I'm pretty sure there's no extractor.  Well, there's an extractor of
sorts, but nothing to assemble the result.  I made a crude
extractor/assembler myself (in docutils CVS, module sandbox,
ianb/extractor/), but I wouldn't really recommend it highly.

  Ian






From klapotec at nusurf.at  Fri Jun 20 13:58:26 2003
From: klapotec at nusurf.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:58:26 +0200
Subject: Newbie on importing
References: <68a42404.0306200929.6043eef0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030620193546.AD4E.KLAPOTEC@nusurf.at>

Michael J Whitmore wrote:

> Just read the Python tutorial looking for the answer to this question

>  What is the difference between (from sys import *) and (import sys).
> I am aware that the last imported module's functions overwrite any
> identically named functions of previous modules.
> 
"from <module> import *" does that, while "import <module>" lets you use
the imported module's names qualified, e.g. you'll have to type "sys.maxint" instead
of just "maxint" to access maxint from module sys.
So while both expose all the names in the module for use in your program,
with the qualified import you don't have to worry about conflicting
namespaces (with names already used being overwritten) - if you'd define
a function maxint in your code, with unqualified "from sys
import *" you'd not be able to use the maxint from module sys.
However you'll also have to type a bit more ;-)


hope that clarifies it a bit,
Christopher




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jun  3 15:00:55 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:00:55 -0400
Subject: "for line in fd" twice
References: <bbiej5$9uiab$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <Uu2cneK-c4u9bEGjXTWcqQ@comcast.com>

"Thomas G?ttler" <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> wrote in message
news:bbiej5$9uiab$1 at ID-63505.news.dfncis.de...
> Hi!
>
> the following does not work:
>
> """
> fd=open(file)
> for line in fd:
>     if line.startswith("mymark"):
>         break
> for line in fd:
>     #Read lines after "mymark"
>     ....
> fd.close()
> """
>
> The second loop misses some lines.

In general, the effect of re-iterating is undefined.

In 2.2, I believe the file iterator internally uses
fd.read(large_chunk) for efficiency.  So the break tosses away the
last read-but-not-reported chunk.  2.3 may be slightly different.

> It works with the old way:
>
> """
> while 1:
>     line=fd.readline()
>     if not line:
>         break
> """

Now you are explicitly reading one line at a time.  Slower but more
sure for your case.

> If you mustnot call "for line in fd" twice, it would
> be nice to get an exception which reminds me about it.

There has been some debate on exactly what to do or say when.  Not
sure if 2.3 will be any different

Terry





From no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid  Tue Jun  3 22:01:08 2003
From: no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid (Robert Oschler)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 02:01:08 GMT
Subject: Anyone using Python to access PHPbb's MySQL database on a web server?
Message-ID: <EpcDa.2207$xM5.2049592@news2.news.adelphia.net>

I want to read/write the MySQL database associated with the data belonging
to the PHPbb forum running on my web site (which I administer, site and
PHPbb forum).  My web site is hosted with a good web hosting company, but
that means that the computer is not onsite.  Also the account I have does
not allow for telnet or ssh session access.  I can run PHP scripts without
problem, but not Python scripts or the mod_python module.

I want to run Python programs locally on my Win2k box to read/write the
PHPbb.MySQL database(s).  I have Python 2.2.x with the venerable WingIDE
debugger running on my Win2k box.  Has anyone done any Python programming
like this?   If so, I'd be very interested in what you had to do to get it
working, especially in the area of any available python libraries/modules to
help with the MySQL access.

thx

--
Robert Oschler,
Android Technologies, Inc.
http://www.androidtechnologies.com
- The home of Off-Book! (tm)
The scene memorization tool for Actors and Actresses!





From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jun  4 00:55:44 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 03 Jun 2003 23:55:44 -0500
Subject: JavaScript parser in Python
In-Reply-To: <hDeDa.9103$945.25982@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
References: <hDeDa.9103$945.25982@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <1054702544.1450.3.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-06-04 at 02:32, Carl Waldbieser wrote:
> Does anyone know of a Python module that can parse a JavaScript source file?
> I am intersted in checking the file to see if it is syntactically correct,
> as well as possibly stripping out whitespace and comments.  I found a couple
> JavaScript compression utilities after doing a Google search, but many of
> them are themselves written in JavaScript, execute in a browser, and tend to
> be somewhat slow for very large JavaScript files.  A pythonic solution has a
> certain appeal to me because I have always found Python very easy an
> intuitive to use in the past.  Thanks in advance.

Well, I think that Javascript has tokens that pretty much match
Python's, except for whitespace.  That at least would make compression
fairly easy, though a more general parser would be able to do more.

  Ian






From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Jun 20 09:52:07 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:52:07 +0100
Subject: sourceforge problems
In-Reply-To: <16115.2851.995073.486228@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <oP+b0PA97r8+Ew0C@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <16115.2851.995073.486228@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <U1w0aIAHGx8+Eww8@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In message <16115.2851.995073.486228 at montanaro.dyndns.org>, Skip
Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes
>
>    Robin> There are thousands of projects hosted at sf.net and it seems it
>    Robin> has become a single point of failure for open source. Is it a
>    Robin> good idea.
>
>Maybe Microsoft should buy SF?
>
>Skip
>
>
yes I thought of that, but the idea is too frightening :(
-- 
Robin Becker




From imbaczek at poczta.onet.pl  Tue Jun 17 08:01:02 2003
From: imbaczek at poczta.onet.pl (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Marek_=22Baczek=22_Baczy=F1ski?=)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:01:02 +0200
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>	 <114xq48ewelrf.1xyyacwlxdk1p.dlg@40tude.net> <mailman.1055714307.28748.python-list@python.org> <bcltis$k61vg$2@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <shunt28f4sgl.dlg@baczek.net.invalid>

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:38:36 +1200, Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)
wrote:

>> On Sun, 2003-06-15 at 14:45, Marek "Baczek" Baczy?ski wrote:
>> 
>>> Searching for a lost colon also takes a lot of time 
>>>*and* tends to happen more often.
> 
> Don't they all end up down the back of the sofa?

Hey, I have just realised that what I wanted to say was 'semicolon' :)

Pozdrawiam, Baczek



From alet at librelogiciel.com  Sun Jun 15 16:19:44 2003
From: alet at librelogiciel.com (Jerome Alet)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 13:19:44 -0700
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] PyKota v1.08 is out
References: <pan.2003.06.13.20.11.22.820318@unice.fr> <87isr8g0jc.fsf@pobox.com> <6I-cnQK6GaBcBXajXTWcqw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <1b492317.0306151219.8c89d8c@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<6I-cnQK6GaBcBXajXTWcqw at comcast.com>...

> Almost everyone reading clp will want to see
> announcements anyway.

That's why I posted it there. Sorry for the inconvenience.

--
Jerome Alet



From edreamleo at charter.net  Wed Jun 18 20:23:20 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:23:20 -0500
Subject: gc questions
References: <vf0jrcqko71j76@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1055950263.24570.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vf20kaeeu5pgbe@corp.supernews.com>

Many thanks, Jeremy, for these hints.  Yes, a dictionary speeds things up a
lot.  dict[o] = o won't work for unhashable objects o, so here is the code I
use.  It seems reliable and fast:

    global lastObjectsDict

    objects = gc.get_objects()
    newObjects = [o for o in objects if not lastObjectsDict.has_key(id(o))]

    lastObjectsDict = {}
    for o in objects:
        lastObjectsDict[id(o)]=o

    print "%d new, %d total objects" % (len(newObjects),len(objects))

Edward

P.S. I was confused because my code has no __del__ methods.  But Tkinter
does.

EKR
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From ed at membled.com  Mon Jun  9 16:43:53 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 21:43:53 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <m3isrffr49.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <PbidnQB3TIQbEX-jXTWcpg@comcast.com> <l18yschlge.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3ptlouoq6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l14r2zg2yq.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055158397.32494.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l1n0grdlrq.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

Moshe Zadka <m at moshez.org> writes:

>Well, I don't know about yield or exec, but I actually *would* like
>to print from lambdas,

>All this should not be taken to mean that I support "statements in
>lambdas" proposal. I would much prefer to have builtins which
>correspond to print and raise (perhaps operator.__print__ and
>operator.__raise__?)

I too would be happy if there were readable and obvious (Pythonic,
even) alternatives to print, assert, dictionary-element-assignment and
so on that could then be used inside lambda bodies.

Having two identical ways to do the same thing (the 'print 5'
statement and the 'print(5)' expression) is unneeded duplication, so
probably the older styles could be deprecated and eventually removed.
(I don't imagine many people would shed tears if the current 'print'
syntax were replaced with something more consistent with normal method
calls; OTOH, if it is a good syntax, then it should be available for
user-defined procedures and not just for a few builtins.)

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From gus.tabares at verizon.net  Mon Jun 16 19:34:20 2003
From: gus.tabares at verizon.net (Gus Tabares)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:34:20 -0400
Subject: IDLE bug
Message-ID: <LFEJJJNJEBIGPEPEPLIPEEHOCAAA.gus.tabares@verizon.net>

Hey all,

	Does anyone have an issue trying to get the 'Save Copy As...' control keys
to work in IDLE under Windows? Not sure if this is the right place to post
bugs about IDLE, or even Python in general for that matter. I've tested this
on 4+ machines and it doesn't work on all. Maybe this is already a known
issue? Is anyone else experiencing this?


Thanks,
Gus





From claird at lairds.com  Fri Jun  6 09:16:43 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:16:43 -0000
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
References: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <20030604.153007.243268139.11567@nets.com> <aeSDa.57206$DV.81029@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <ve151riuqh9i05@corp.supernews.com>

In article <aeSDa.57206$DV.81029 at rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>,
Bryan <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>is QT free for personal and commercial use?  if not, QT is not an option for
			.
			.
			.
Yes and no:
   The Qt Free Editions contain the same code as our Commercial
   Editions, but are governed by licensing terms that are entirely
   different.

   Released under the open-source licenses GPL (GNU Public License) or
   QPL (Qt Public License), these licenses are for developers who want
   to build free software for Unix/Linux.
      <URL: http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/freelicense.html >
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From ninja114 at spl.at  Fri Jun 20 09:01:47 2003
From: ninja114 at spl.at (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:01:47 GMT
Subject: looping
References: <bsDIa.4418$C83.436634@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.20.13.00.57.439335@spl.at>

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:52:23 +0000, Lucas Raab wrote:

> I'm a newbie and I can't figure out how to loop from the end of the program
> back to the beginning. Any suggestions?

Why would you want to do that? Without knowing that it's kinda hard to
give suggestions....





From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Tue Jun 17 17:02:08 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:02:08 +0100
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
In-Reply-To: <87ptlcbr3u.fsf@gvdnet.dk>
References: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055859955.6466.python-list@python.org> <87ptlcbr3u.fsf@gvdnet.dk>
Message-ID: <200306172202.08736.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Tuesday 17 Jun 2003 5:34 pm, Martin Christensen wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> >>>>> "Dirk" == Dirk Gerrits <dirk at gerrits.homeip.net> writes:
>
> Dirk> ... you are forced to use a variety of programming languages at
> Dirk> school in a variety of projects, and for each and everyone of
> Dirk> them you explain to your friends how much easier it would have
> Dirk> been to solve this in Python instead of the language we were
> Dirk> supposed to use.
>
> I speak from experience when I say that this can quickly get on
> people's nerves. Whenever I mention Python, it is always accompanied
> by loud groans from my friends. :-)
>
> Martin
>
> - --
> Homepage:       http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/
> GPG public key: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/gpgkey.txt
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using Mailcrypt+GnuPG <http://www.gnupg.org>
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAj7vQwUACgkQYu1fMmOQldVfIACgxz8OLJXOlTT0TfteIA7QsdTU
> 5fIAn1ZcWECUZCTYxshY6lGu5xKeodVl
> =tL+8
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


They make you learn a 'proper' programming language, like RPG, just because 
you can't stop going on about how good Python is, but you secretly believe 
it's because you make them look bad by churning out good quality programs at 
the drop of a hat... :-)




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun  4 16:58:00 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:58:00 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <l1of1dljbd.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>; from ed@membled.com on Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 08:43:50PM +0100
References: <mailman.1054675867.2029.python-list@python.org> <l1of1dljbd.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <20030604145759.A4941@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ed Avis:
  [...]
>     table = {'setcolour': lambda x: b = x,
>              'invertcolour': lambda x: b = inverted[b],
>              ...,
>             }
  [...]
> However it is not possible to write it as above because anonymous
> functions don't allow assignment, or at least, not with =.

And there'd be scope problems anyway.

How about this instead?

    class config(object):
        def __init__(self):
            self.colour = 'blue'
        def setcolour(self, value):
            self.colour = value
        def invertcolour(self, dummy):
            self.colour = inverted[self.colour]
        # ...

    cfg = config()
    for cmd, arg in commands:
        getattr(cfg, cmd)(arg)
    print 'colour is now', cfg.colour

Some refinements are in order (e.g., to prevent the configuration
file from invoking __init__), but the idea is clear.  This
technique does assume that the command names fit into identifier
syntax, of course.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"[T]rue greatness is when your name is like ampere, watt, and fourier
 -- when it's spelled with a lower case letter."      -- R.W. Hamming




From sheila at spamcop.net  Sun Jun 22 03:00:45 2003
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 00:00:45 -0700
Subject: ANNOUNCE: JOTWeb 1.11, preview of new web application system.
References: <20030617162210.GB5896@tummy.com> <1055884182.1169.11.camel@emilio> <mailman.1055919212.4742.python-list@python.org> <m3he6nbr78.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <20030619102215.GC23876@tummy.com> <m3el1q9uio.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <mailman.1056066276.16798.python-list@python.org> <m3isr1pn6z.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <bct3qk.1do.1@kserver.org> <mailman.1056258041.5179.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bd2rje.168.1@kserver.org>

On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:59:09 -0600, Sean Reifschneider
<jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com> wrote in comp.lang.python in article
<mailman.1056258041.5179.python-list at python.org>:

> On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 07:44:19PM -0700, Sheila King wrote:
> >There are a lot of Python web frameworks to choose from and I spent about a
> >week reviewing possible contenders. May have been others that would have
> >done well for my case, but I am very happy with the choice I made for
> >Albatross. Session management is a snap. :)
> 
> Obviously, you didn't have an opportunity to review JOTWeb because it
> didn't exist 5 weeks ago...  

Too true.

>I do agree that separating the presentation
> and the logic is a big win.  Session management is an important thing,
> that's why Sessions and Forms are the first two things that I built for
> the JOTWeb library.  First was forms and good validation, because
> sessions are generally created and managed using forms.  ;-)
> 
> I'm quite happy with how they turned out...  The Python code for
> implementing Sessions in JOTWeb, including signing up, logging in, and
> logging out can be done in 5 lines of Python.

I took a quick look at your code and docs, and it looks like your framework
would be especially handy for anyone already familiar with the TAL type of
markup/templates. I have played around with RoundUp a bit, and had my head
wrapped around that stuff some time back. Would have to revisit it again to
get back up to speed (and plan to...as I would like to work with RoundUp
some more...if I ever find the time).

Congratulations on your work. Satisfaction with one's work, is ultimately,
the best thing to aim for.

-- 
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/





From peter.slizik at pobox.sk  Fri Jun  6 03:43:54 2003
From: peter.slizik at pobox.sk (Peter Slizik)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 09:43:54 +0200
Subject: Postfix/Prefix Operators (++,--)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054880245.29052.python-list@python.org>
References: <1054878539.22405.4.camel@mylinuxsite.com> <mailman.1054880245.29052.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbpgnm$buit0$1@ID-196014.news.dfncis.de>

> 
>     >>> import this
>     ...
>     There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
>     ...

By the way, what the heck is *this* module?
Some experimental module to test ROT 13 cipher?

 >>> import this
 >>> dir(this)
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'c', 'd', 'i', 's']
 >>> this.c
'!'
 >>> this.d
{'A': 'N', 'C': 'P', 'B': 'O', 'E': 'R', 'D': 'Q', 'G': 'T', 'F': 'S', 
'I': 'V', 'H': 'U', 'K': 'X', 'J': 'W', 'M': 'Z', 'L': 'Y', 'O': 'B', 
'N': 'A', 'Q': 'D', 'P': 'C', 'S': 'F', 'R': 'E', 'U': 'H', 'T': 'G', 
'W': 'J', 'V': 'I', 'Y': 'L', 'X': 'K', 'Z': 'M', 'a': 'n', 'c': 'p', 
'b': 'o', 'e': 'r', 'd': 'q', 'g': 't', 'f': 's', 'i': 'v', 'h': 'u', 
'k': 'x', 'j': 'w', 'm': 'z', 'l': 'y', 'o': 'b', 'n': 'a', 'q': 'd', 
'p': 'c', 's': 'f', 'r': 'e', 'u': 'h', 't': 'g', 'w': 'j', 'v': 'i', 
'y': 'l', 'x': 'k', 'z': 'm'}
 >>> this.i
25
 >>> print this.s
Gur Mra bs Clguba, ol Gvz Crgref

Ornhgvshy vf orggre guna htyl.
Rkcyvpvg vf orggre guna vzcyvpvg.
Fvzcyr vf orggre guna pbzcyrk.
Pbzcyrk vf orggre guna pbzcyvpngrq.
Syng vf orggre guna arfgrq.
Fcnefr vf orggre guna qrafr.
Ernqnovyvgl pbhagf.
Fcrpvny pnfrf nera'g fcrpvny rabhtu gb oernx gur ehyrf.
Nygubhtu cenpgvpnyvgl orngf chevgl.
Reebef fubhyq arire cnff fvyragyl.
Hayrff rkcyvpvgyl fvyraprq.
Va gur snpr bs nzovthvgl, ershfr gur grzcgngvba gb thrff.
Gurer fubhyq or bar-- naq cersrenoyl bayl bar --boivbhf jnl gb qb vg.
Nygubhtu gung jnl znl abg or boivbhf ng svefg hayrff lbh'er Qhgpu.
Abj vf orggre guna arire.
Nygubhtu arire vf bsgra orggre guna *evtug* abj.
Vs gur vzcyrzragngvba vf uneq gb rkcynva, vg'f n onq vqrn.
Vs gur vzcyrzragngvba vf rnfl gb rkcynva, vg znl or n tbbq vqrn.
Anzrfcnprf ner bar ubaxvat terng vqrn -- yrg'f qb zber bs gubfr!




From point14 at magma.ca  Mon Jun  2 22:17:35 2003
From: point14 at magma.ca (Martin d'Anjou)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 02:17:35 GMT
Subject: Extension without sub-classing?
Message-ID: <3EDB61A1.3050203@magma.ca>

Is it possible to extend a python class without sub-classing?

For example, in file1.py

class car:
    def start_engine(self):
       print "Started"

And in file2.py, continue the declaration of the car class, without specializing 
  it:

extend car:
    def apply_breaks(self):
       print "You have stopped"

I know the "extend" syntax is wrong, but I want to extend "car" without 
sub-classing. Is this possible and how?

Thanks,
M.




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Jun 12 05:40:23 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:40:23 +0200
Subject: PEP318: property as decoration
In-Reply-To: <bc8t5b$chh$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
References: <bc568h$5t4$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <DIuFa.5725$Gm4.690616@news20.bellglobal.com> <bc7ibf$fjv$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <20030611184025.GB5575@nl.linux.org> <mailman.1055362671.6994.python-list@python.org> <bc8t5b$chh$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <20030612094023.GA2785@nl.linux.org>

Sean Ross wrote:
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
> Subject: Re: PEP318: property as decoration

> "Gerrit Holl" <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message
> > Hmm, that doesn't seem to work. __doc__ is not in my local namespace yet.
> 
> Here`s a brittle hack to resolve that issue:

Such a hack isn't that hard of course.
I solved it by adding "d=" just before my docstring: __doc__
doesn't need to stay anyway, because this outer function gets overwritten
by the property.

[skipped code]

> As I say, "this" is a very brittle hack, so don't try this at home (pardon
> the pun)

The only place I use frames is in by debug() function: this way, it
prints the function and lineno of the caller, which easy's debugging.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
168. If a man wish to put his son out of his house, and declare before
the judge: "I want to put my son out," then the judge shall examine into
his reasons. If the son be guilty of no great fault, for which he can be
rightfully put out, the father shall not put him out.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From mas at semafor.ch  Thu Jun 26 05:33:20 2003
From: mas at semafor.ch (Sorin Marti)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:33:20 +0200
Subject: Reading a binary file
References: <3EFAA842.1070505@semafor.ch> <20030626083305.GF17335@frobozz>
Message-ID: <3EFABDE0.7090205@semafor.ch>

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for your answer!

Andrew Bennetts wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 10:01:06AM +0200, Sorin Marti wrote:
> 
>>But now I need the hex values of the binary file.
> 
> You can get the hex value of a 1-character string with hex(ord(char)), e.g.:
> 
>     >>> char = 'a'
>     >>> hex(ord(char))
>     '0x61'
> 

That is not exactly what I meant. I've found a solution (a is the binary 
data):

b = binascii.hexlify(a)

For example it gives me C8 which is a HEX-Value. How to change this one 
into a decimal? (The decimal should be 130, right?)

Thanks in advance

     Sorin







From lale at fotonation.com  Thu Jun  5 09:18:20 2003
From: lale at fotonation.com (Ilariu Raducan)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:18:20 +0100
Subject: Pythonwin CreateFormView CreateDlgBar  string template
Message-ID: <DoHDa.16863$pK2.23319@news.indigo.ie>

Hi All,

Does anybody know what is the template parameter of those two methods of 
win32ui?
It can be a string or integer. I'm interested in the string parameter. 
What is that? How does it look like?
Can I use a tuple as described in CreateDialogIndirect to create 
DialogBar or FormView?
I have my resources it that format and I don't really want to create a 
dll with resources.

Thank you,
Lale




From Bill.Scherer at verizonwireless.com  Mon Jun  2 11:39:26 2003
From: Bill.Scherer at verizonwireless.com (Scherer, Bill)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:39:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Spread in a 24x7 environment ?
In-Reply-To: <%UJCa.30722$Io.2597650@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306021134250.3409-100000@bagend.odc.vzwcorp.com>

[P&M]

On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, j vickroy wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> We are evaluating Spread for use in a 24x7 environment; we anticipate
> ~500 continuously running publisher/subscriber components with ~ 50
> group subscriptions per (publisher/subscriber) component.
> 
> Is anyone using Spread in a 24x7 environment?  If so, what are your
> experiences with it -- especially servicing ~500 components?

I've had a spread daemon running on RedHat 6.2. The OS has been 
up for 442 days now. The spread daemon has been up for something 
a bit less than that, but at least a year.

The "component" count is, however, far below your requirements; I 
cannot speak to Spread's capabilities at that level.

At the level we use it, we've had no problems whatsoever.

 
> Thanks for your time.

Sure.

-- 
Bill.Scherer at Verizon Wireless
RHCE 807101044903581





From dave at boost-consulting.com  Wed Jun 18 22:57:08 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:57:08 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com>
 <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it>
 <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com>
 <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr>
 <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com>
 <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it>
 <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com>
 <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it>
 <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <bcq4c4$lff$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <uptla4vwb.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:25:54 -0400, David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote:
>
>>Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
>>
>>> But this has little to do with the need of 'type declarations'.  I
>>> suspect that a statically typed language would also be better off
>>> without them, relying on type inferencing instead, a la Haskell (and
>>> Haskell's typeclasses to keep the inferencing as wide as feasible),
>>> for example.  But I have no research to back this up;-).
>>
>>I don't have any first-hand experience, but the experience of friends
>>of mine who have used Haskell is that it can be exceedingly difficult
>>to locate the source of a type error when it does occur, since the
>>inference engine may propagate the "wrong" type back much further than
>>the source of the error.
>>
>>Furthermore, if you do everything by inference you lose the
>>explanatory power of type declarations.
>>
> But what does "type" really mean? ISTM that in the static typing world
> "type" mostly identifies a type of *representation* -- i.e., things that
> have compatible memory layouts. 

That's a very primitive notion of type, and not at all what is meant
in type theory.

> Of course any Python implementation will have underlying
> *representations* of its entities, but those are not a central
> concern of Python or Python programmers. In fact, UIAM it is a goal
> of Python design to enable programmers to forget about concrete
> representations as much as possible, except for "foreign"
> interfacing.
>
> I.e., the "types" of Python are more abstract, and are more about
> abstract structure and functional compatibility than underlying
> representation. ISTM "static" typing in this world can't be a direct
> translation of the old concept, unless you are talking about an interface
> to an old-style "statically typed" world, or want to incorporate
> an encapsulated chunk of that into python.

I think most of the above is answered in my reply to Alex, which I
refer you to.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From kennykb at acm.org  Sun Jun 29 09:05:59 2003
From: kennykb at acm.org (Kevin Kenny)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 09:05:59 -0400
Subject: Fast CGI Vs Java Application Servers
References: <kAxLa.592$_I3.34571@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3EFEE437.E963BC5B@acm.org>

Charles Handy wrote:
> 
> How does FastCGI compare against java Apps running in java app servers
> like TomCat, Sun One, WebLogic and WebSphere?  Is there a business case
> for switching from CGI to Java?  Performance? Productivity? Features?
> Object orientation? Code Reuse?
> 
> Any opinions?

When anyone talks about scrapping working code, I refer them to
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html
Generally speaking, there's no good reason to ditch stuff that
works. Buzzword compliance is one of the worst reasons.
(Ditching particularly bad *components* of stuff that works
is sometimes the right thing...)

Performance: By the time you've finished your reimplementation,
Moore's Law will have caught up with you.

Productivity: Whose productivity? See the article cited above.

Features: What do you need? Does it exist in your current
environment? Is there an add-in that gives it without needing
to redevelop?

Object orientation: Tcl (with SnIT, IncrTcl, ...) supports it.
Perl supports it. Python supports it. The object models are
different, and zealots will say, "only .... is *really* object
oriented." Don't trust zealots.

Code reuse: Excuse me? You want code reuse, and you're talking
about redeveloping existing product?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
--
73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin



From r.hartley at bio.gla.ac.uk  Tue Jun  3 04:25:44 2003
From: r.hartley at bio.gla.ac.uk (Bob Hartley)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 01:25:44 -0700
Subject: python bibliography manager. Newbie.
References: <7b144ff3.0306020655.5e947f58@posting.google.com> <Xns938ED348212D7cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134> <bbgba3$bcf$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <7b144ff3.0306030025.53c572f1@posting.google.com>

Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bbgba3$bcf$1 at peabody.colorado.edu>...
> Harald Massa wrote:
> 
> > Bob,

Hi all
> > 
> >>can I do this with python:-
>  
> >> Take an endnote refer file or other bibliography data (TSV OVID
> >> Medline etc etc etc) and load the data into a table.

snip

> > And:
> > if you google for this application, I think there is a python one out there
> 
> it's called pybliographer, and it comes with a gui (pybliographic).  It knows
> how to talk to lyx, so the two combined make the perfect document writing
> system (note that I did NOT say word processor: lyx is not a word processor,
> it's a far superior system).

I forstly did a google search for software and found this. However, I
thought it was linux only. Will this run on windows2K-pro?

cheers
bob

> 
> best,
> 
> f.



From user at domain.invalid  Fri Jun 13 08:49:54 2003
From: user at domain.invalid (user at domain.invalid)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:49:54 +0200
Subject: Twice instanciation
References: <bcakmg$jv7$1@news-reader14.wanadoo.fr> <2259b0e2.0306130403.32955295@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE9C872.2040303@domain.invalid>

Michele Simionato wrote:


> 
> You can do this:
> 
> class DoubleInstantiationError(Exception): pass
> 
> class Global:
>     alreadyinstantiated=False
>     def __init__(self,init=0):
>         if self.__class__.alreadyinstantiated:
>             raise DoubleInstantiationError()
>         self.value = init
>         self.__class__.alreadyinstantiated=True
> 
> g = Global() #instanciating one time ok
> print g
> g = Global() #instanciating two times would raise an exception


Until there it's ok ;-)


> Notice that you would have an exception even using a different name
> for 'g' the second time. 


But this is not ok for my purpose :-)

Anyway, thank you very much for your help Michele

Regards

Salvatore













From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jun 16 08:53:34 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:53:34 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <pqecneVWGfBLIHCjXTWJgA@comcast.com>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> >> Calling functions with invalid arguments is one of the commonest
> >> programming errors

> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Debatable.  Not true in my experience.

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message > > > Pretty true in
my own experience, for a suitably generalized definition
> of "functions" that includes operators and other callables.
However,
> the reasons the arguments are "invalid" are more often connected to
the
> *values* that those arguments take at runtime, rather than to the
types
> of those arguments (which might be checkable at compile time if one
> used a statically-typed language), therefore this is not an argument
> in favour of static type-checking.

If one considers the set of values as part of the type, this amounts
to saying that the type system of most languages is too coarse for
real needs.  Many operations need counts [0, 1, 2, ...].  Python does
not have this, C only backhandedly (unsigned int, like calling an int
an unfractionated rational).  A few need a count subset: circular
queues need residue classes [0, 1, ..., n-1] with all operation
results taken %n.  These are well-defined mathematical sets that
programmers usually have to simulate rather than simply declare.

Similarly, absolute measurements (as opposed to differences of
absolute measurements, like deviation from freezing temp and sea
level) and the input to real/float sqrt() and other functions are
'non-negative floats'.  I don't know of any language that lets a
programmer directly declare this type.  C lets you typedef structures
but not restricted subsets.

> E.g., indexing blah[bloh] with an
> invalid index value computed in variable bloh (invalid with respect
> to the set of indices that container blah can accept) is, alas, far
> from rare; but it's not a type-checking issue,

Depends on what you call a type.  A 'count' or a 'residue_class' is as
much a mathematical 'type' as an 'int' (or a 'rat').

Terry J. Reedy





From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Jun 10 01:14:35 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 07:14:35 +0200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3he71hk52.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1u1b1h908.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3brx9xepd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1k7bwhnv5.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m33cikw4a0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1d6hng389.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <bc3dqt$es439$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <m3znkqikec.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com> writes:

> Depends on the parser generator. Yacc warns about ambiguities
> when processing the grammar; if you ignore the warnings, at
> runtime it does whatever it thinks best (which might not be
> what *you* thought best:-[). 

Actually, I believe it will chose the alternative that is earliest in
the YACC input file (atleast bison does that).

Regards,
Martin



From jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  5 01:10:32 2003
From: jarrodhroberson at yahoo.com (Y2KYZFR1)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 22:10:32 -0700
Subject: Anyone know of a Python editor as good as Intellij IDEA is for Java?
Message-ID: <c718a6cf.0306042110.e0e33c5@posting.google.com>

idle just does not cut it and Wings seems to be the best thing out,
but it is completely alien and non-standard in its interface.

Any thing comparable to IDEA??????



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun 18 14:10:03 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:10:03 -0400
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
References: <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6@posting.google.com> <eppstein-0047EB.09403118062003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3EF0AAFB.DDA5F555@engcorp.com>

David Eppstein wrote:
> 
> In article <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6 at posting.google.com>,
>  wrbt at email.com (Larry) wrote:
> 
> > I need to take a list (probably 20k to 40k elements) of numbers and
> > remove consecutive duplicates. Non consecutive duplicates are ok.
> >
> > Example: [6,3,3,3,5,7,6,3,4,4,3] => [6,3,5,7,6,3,4,3]
> 
> >>> L = [6,3,3,3,5,7,6,3,4,4,3]
> >>> [x for x, y in zip(L, [L]+L) if x != y]
> [6, 3, 5, 7, 6, 3, 4, 3]

But this won't work if L contains a reference to L!  :-) :-)

-Peter



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Tue Jun 17 23:57:36 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:57:36 +1000
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE796FDC@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Jarek Zgoda [mailto:jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl]
> 
> Software Craftsmen, please, consider this fact when choosing a license
> for your product - only GNU GPL guarantees that your code will not be
> "taken away" by any company.

Ignoring that Python is not GPL (which makes your statements nonsensical in the context of this discussion) ...

There is a growing view (not necessarily correct - IANAL) that the GPL is actually an explicit waiver of copyright due to the requirement to distribute the source when the binary is distributed.

If this is indeed correct then it destroys the basis of the GPL, which is that if you do not accept the license then you are subject to copyright restrictions.

Which would make it incredibly simple for a company to take GPL software, not accept the license, and then do whatever they want with it since it would be in the public domain (due to explicit waiver of copyright).

Tim Delaney




From bsimuyandi at africonnect.com  Thu Jun 12 05:11:01 2003
From: bsimuyandi at africonnect.com (Ben Simuyandi)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:11:01 +0100
Subject: Newbie: changing an attribute of objects in a list
References: <bc72gq$cv3$1@main.gmane.org> <bc7gcd$ncf$1@main.gmane.org> <20030611120656.F1157@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
Message-ID: <bc9fub$7vu$1@main.gmane.org>

Example objects in a list [a,b,...,i]:

a.age=100
a.order=1
b.age=200
b.order=1
c.age=300
c.order=1
d.age=400
d.order=1
e.age=500
e.order=1
f.age=600
f.order=1
g.age=50
g.order=1
h.age=700
h.order=1
i.age=150
i.order=1

should return a list with values:

a.age=100
a.order=9
b.age=200
b.order=6
c.age=300
c.order=5
d.age=400
d.order=4
e.age=500
e.order=3
f.age=600
f.order=2
g.age=50
g.order=9
h.age=700
h.order=1
i.age=150
i.order=7

and another example list:

a.age=100
a.order=1
b.age=200
b.order=2
c.age=300
c.order=3
d.age=400
d.order=4
e.age=500
e.order=4
f.age=600
f.order=5
g.age=50
g.order=6
h.age=700
h.order=7
i.age=150
i.order=8

should return:

a.age=100
a.order=1
b.age=200
b.order=2
c.age=300
c.order=3
d.age=400
d.order=4
e.age=500
e.order=5
f.age=600
f.order=6
g.age=50
g.order=7
h.age=700
h.order=8
i.age=150
i.order=9

Thanks,
Ben

"Steven Taschuk" <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:20030611120656.F1157 at tibia.amotlpaa.bogus...
> Quoth Ben Simuyandi:
> > OK, I've read a bit and I've now changed the code. If anyone would like
to
> > give feedback (better ways of doing it, where am I going wrong) that
would
> > be appreciated:
>   [...]
>
> It would be nice to see an example list of objects and the desired
> result for that list.
>
> Without that, here's one possible, simple-minded and completely
> untested notion:
>
>     # separate items into groups by x.order
>     d = {}
>     for x in items:
>         d.setdefault(x.order, []).append(x)
>
>     # resolve conflicts
>     orders = d.keys()
>     orders.sort()
>     for order in orders:
>         # sort descending by age
>         assert len(d[order]) > 0
>         decorated = [(x.age, -i, x) for x in enumerate(d[order])]
>         decorated.sort()
>         decorated.reverse()
>         sorted = [x for _, _, x in decorated]
>         del decorated
>
>         # Replace the list d[order] with its oldest element.
>         # Put the remaining elements, in reverse order of age, into
>         # d[order+1], d[order+2], etc.
>         # If one of those is found already to have elements,
>         # just dump all the remaining elements in that list; the
>         # loop over the orders will then pick up at that point.
>
>         # (Note how this makes it okay to be mutating the dict and
>         # iterating over an independent list of the original keys.)
>
>         del d[order]
>         for i, x in enumerate(sorted):
>             if order+i not in d:
>                 d[order+i] = x
>             else:
>                 d[order+i].extend(sorted[i:])
>                 break
>
>     # assign .order attributes
>     for order, x in d.iteritems():
>         x.order = order
>
> This uses enumerate(), a new built-in in Python 2.3; in 2.2 you
> can write it yourself, like this:
>
>     from __future__ import generators
>
>     def enumerate(items):
>         i = 0
>         for x in items:
>             yield i, x
>             i = i + 1
>
> --
> Steven Taschuk                staschuk at telusplanet.net
> "I tried to be pleasant and accommodating, but my head
>  began to hurt from his banality."   -- _Seven_ (1996)
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>







From gupt_vive at hotmail.com  Fri Jun  6 01:39:17 2003
From: gupt_vive at hotmail.com (vivek kumar)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:09:17 +0530
Subject: Newbie: How do you enable python scripts in apache server?
Message-ID: <Law15-F38jewZkYXmqb0002c7aa@hotmail.com>

>From: Husam <husalwan at sci.kun.nl>
>To: python-list at python.org
>Subject: Newbie: How do you enable python scripts in apache server?
>Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 17:16:22 +0200
>
>Hi,
>I have apache server running on redhat 9 and wants to run python scripts
>with it. I made a test script test.py and chmod to 777. The script sits
>in the root directory of the www-site. The script is this:
>
>#!/usr/bin/python
>print "Content-Type: text/plain\n\n"

try: print 'Content-Type:text/html\n\n'

>print "Hello, Python!"
>
>Although the script executes properly in konsole terminal, the problem
>is when I try to execute this script in netscape like this:
>http://localhost/test.py
>
>the script is showing as plain text.
>
>Can anybody points me to the right direction?
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

_________________________________________________________________
ICICI's NRI services. They make life easy. 
http://server1.msn.co.in/msnspecials/nriservices/index.asp Find out more.





From lazypointer at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 12 02:22:19 2003
From: lazypointer at yahoo.com (Byron Morgan)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 06:22:19 GMT
Subject: isFloat: Without Exception-Handling
References: <ama6nt$n6i$06$1@news.t-online.com> <pan.2002.09.18.11.40.50.766802.29524@presidency.com> <%82i9.1366$bh1.943@fe03> <pan.2002.09.18.13.18.06.319534.29524@presidency.com>
Message-ID: <v_UFa.2709$Mi3.161728669@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

This works:

import operator
def isFloat(f):
    if not operator.isNumberType(f):
        return 0
    if f % 1:
        return 1
    else:
        return 0

>>> isFloat(3.1)
1
>>> isFloat('a')
0
>>> isFloat(12345)
0

Byron Morgan

> > "Rajarshi Guha" <rajarshi at presidency.com> wrote in message
> > news:pan.2002.09.18.11.40.50.766802.29524 at presidency.com...
> >> On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:41:47 -0400, Thomas Guettler wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi!
> >> >
> >> > Is there a way to write the following method without using
> >> > exceptions?
> >> >
> >> > def isFloat(string):
> >> >      is_float=1
> >> >      try:
> >> >          float(string)
> >> >      except:
> >> >          is_float=0
> >> >      return is_float
> >> >
> >> > print isFloat("asdf") # --> 0
> >> > print isFloat("0.1")  # --> 1
> >>
> >>
> >> def isFloat(string):
> >>   if type(string) == type(1.0):
> >>     return 1
> >>   else
> >>     return 0
> >>
> >> This should do what you want without exceptions
> >
> > I doubt that VERY much. Please test your code before submitting, or
> > ensure you note it wasn't tested ...
> >
> >>>> def isFloat(s):
> > ...   if type(s) == type(1.0):
> > ...     return 1
> > ...   else:
> > ...     return 0
> > ...
> >>>> isFloat("banana")
> > 0
> >>>> isFloat("1.2")
> > 0
>
> If its called as isFloat(1.2) it works.
> (My idea was that it would called with a variable and not a literl)
>





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jun 11 11:59:12 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 08:59:12 -0700
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <bbsq5k$r9j$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <84fc4588.0306100413.1125d1ee@posting.google.com> <zMGcnS-JpKf1nXujXTWcqQ@comcast.com> <84fc4588.0306110101.4a63666e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306110759.7c6fb63e@posting.google.com>

pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai) wrote in message news:<84fc4588.0306110101.4a63666e at posting.google.com>...
> Thank you. I did not know that lambda was in fact slower
> than operator methods, but now I do. I encountered lambda's
> in lisp first, where they are preferred over direct function
> calls. Looks like python's lambda is somewhat different.
> 
> Perhaps the language developers should re-implement it in
> C.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Anand Pillai

lambdas are *NOT* slow. They have the same speed than plain
functions. Actually, internally they *are* plain functions.
Don't you believe it ? Try to profile a plain function and
an equivalent function, there is no appreciable difference.

In your case the problem is with reduce (idem for map and filter):
they are faster when you pass them a builtin function
(such as operator.add) than an user defined function.
But the slowdown is the same both for a lambda and a plain function.

HTH,

                                Michele



From scott.daniels at acm.org  Sun Jun  1 02:02:12 2003
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 23:02:12 -0700
Subject: Self-currying functions
In-Reply-To: <slrnbdfb06.b8d.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
References: <slrnbcm9ds.kfe.ramen@lackingtalent.com> <qsGya.27509$XV1.109@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <slrnbcrf5f.o6f.ramen@lackingtalent.com> <3ecff6e8$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <slrnbdfb06.b8d.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <3ed996e5@nntp0.pdx.net>

Dave Benjamin wrote:

> In article <3ecff6e8$1 at nntp0.pdx.net>, Scott David Daniels wrote:
>>Dave Benjamin wrote:
>>>...
>>>The following is my response, adapted from your example to support Alex
>>>Martelli's curry function (and as a result, curried named parameters). I'm
>>>starting to find interesting uses I hadn't anticipated.
>>>...
>>
>>I am curious why you would want this ability (as opposed to curry..), 
 >> it seems there is a difference between a function with zero arguments
 >> and the result of that function....
>>     Shouldn't selfcurry(lambda:1) == 1?
> 
> I'm not sure that I understand your comments. The point of selfcurry is to
> modify the behavior of an existing function of two or more arguments so that
> they do not need to be supplied at once. A function of zero or one arguments
> does not need to be curried. Maybe selfcurry should just give you back your
> function, unmodified, in that case.

OK, I really am asking a question rahter than trying to score debate
points.  What I am curious about is why the selfcurry interface is
preferable to the curry interface.  As an invention, I can see either
one showing up first, but your response to Carl Baks' implementation
of selfcurry is not, "Oh, curry is what I probably want."

> I don't see what this specific construct has to do with side effects,
> besides the obvious connection with functional programming.

OK, my exposure to currying is from functional programming.  The only
way I can see making a zero-argument function equivalent to its result
is in an environment where you care about when a function is executed.
If functions are side-effect free, it doesn't matter when they are
executed, and it may well be reasonable to consider a function of zero
arguments as equivalent to its result.  In other environments, a
programmer generally cares precisely when the function is elaborated.
I hope this makes clear why I was talking about side-effect-free.

>>The keyword args seems to interfere with this flavor of currying,
>>perhaps you need to add in len(kwargs) to decide on provided arguments.
>> ... [after] f = selfcurry(lambda w, x, *y, **z: (w, x, y, z))
>> ... f(2, x=5)
> This is definitely a gray area that I had not thought of.... it seems
> keyword arguments behave like options....
But they do count as arguments (in terms of the number of arguments).

> What would be the point of explicitly naming positional parameters? 
 > ... why would you want to do this in the first place? Do you normally
 > name your positional arguments explicitly?

I think the deceptive part here was my example (which was too short
to be realistic).  I've worked on a number of systems (typically
simulations), where there are a reasonably large number of parameters
to be specified.  Often there is no reasonable default; the value must
be specified.  In such systems, giving parameters names (and forcing
the names to match actuals) makes for more reliable code.  It is too
easy to read past a mis-ordering of 12 parameters.


>>I am curious why you prefer the selfcurry interface (even assuming
>>keyword issues are dealt with).  It seems to to violate "explicit
>>is better than implicit."
> Can you elaborate on that? ...
This is the crux of my question, I suppose.  Forgive me for going
there again, but if there are no side-effects, then functions are
simply expression rewrites, and there is no meaningful difference
between a function with zero arguments and its result.  If there
are side-effects (such as I/O), when code is executed is crucially
important, and seldom would you write "r = f(a)" without knowing
whether a side-effect can be expected to happen.  I'd expect list
comprehensions and map to be seen as bad style (too cute a trick)
if side-effects are expected, for example.

The expicit/implicit thing I'm talking about is the moment the
function is elaborated (or called, or ...).  Selfcurry turns a
function of an arbitrary number of arguments into a function of
one argument returning a function of one argument returning ...
a result.  It is the "magic" result point that I don't get.
Curry of a function and some arguments returns a function of
fewer arguments (or, for keyword args, potentially different
defaults).  You still always know when the function is invoked
to return a result, and your call will always expect either a
further function or a result.

> I am not advocating that everybody write functions that curry their own
> arguments, or that we throw away the ability to name positional parameters
> when calling functions. I'd just like the ability to write functions that
> have this behavior, and now I have it, and I'm pretty happy about it. =)

And I am not saying you shouldn't have the use of whatever floats your
boat. I am truly eager to hear a use case for selfcurry over curry.  Is
it simply brevity in intermediate expressions, or is there something I
am missing.  Do you feel, "yes, of course, you know when a value is 
produced and a final 'bowlegs' would be no big deal," or "the whole
point is to be able to deal with this ambiguously?"

For those listening in, the parens at the end of "fun()" are what I
mean by bowlegs.  I presume Dave knows the term.

> Thanks, Dave

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org




From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jun 18 21:41:38 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 03:41:38 +0200
Subject: Is python good for making database work short?
In-Reply-To: <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095@posting.google.com>
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF114D2.5060806@ghaering.de>

Steve wrote:
> Hi;
> 
> Today at work I got an impressive demonstration.
> 
> There was a database mess that had to be cleaned up fast.
> [...]
> A coworker who is a foxpro nut did all of this in about 3 lines of
> code.

This is either an exaggeration or the problem wasn't really that complex.

> [...] Anyway, I would love to have an open source, multiplatform tool that
> could match foxpro in ease of database manipulation.
> 
> Is python it?

Yes. You can write fairly short database code with the Python DB-API, 
compared to all other languages I know (for database stuff, I've used 
VB6, C# and Java, and Python of course).

-- Gerhard




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Thu Jun 26 19:43:23 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 09:33:23 +0950
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com> <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com> <bdb22c$psllg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EF933AA.C16ADFE5@alcyone.com> <bdcl1d$v43$0@216.39.172.122> <fef0a228.0306261125.62b83713@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbfn2eb.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 26 Jun 2003 12:25:55 -0700, - wrote:
> I think the terminology is not taken from typewriters, but from some
> old printers where you needed both characters to start a new line.
> 
> CR moved the print head to the beginning of the line

CR stands for "carriage return".  If you're talking about a print head
moving across the paper, you're no longer talking about a carriage
"returning", so the terminology obviously didn't come from electric
printers.

Carriage Return is a direct reference to the paper carriage on a manual
typewriter.  These predate electric printing machines, and thus the
terminology was borrowed when teletypes needed control codes to control
their print head.

On such typewriters, the "line feed" function was also separate; once
the carriage was returned to the start of the line, one could cause
the paper to feed up a line at a time to introduce more vertical space;
this didn't affect the position of the paper carriage, so was
conceptually a separate operation.

So, it was teletypes that needlessly preserved the CR and LF as separate
control operations, due to the typewriter-based thinking of their
designers.  If they'd been combined into the one operation, we would
have all the same functionality but none of the confusion over line
ending controls.

-- 
 \        "I installed a skylight in my apartment. The people who live |
  `\                          above me are furious!"  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From lvraab at earthlink.net  Fri Jun 20 08:52:23 2003
From: lvraab at earthlink.net (Lucas Raab)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:52:23 GMT
Subject: looping
Message-ID: <bsDIa.4418$C83.436634@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

I'm a newbie and I can't figure out how to loop from the end of the program
back to the beginning. Any suggestions?





From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jun  4 20:45:25 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 01:45:25 +0100
Subject: JavaScript parser in Python
References: <hDeDa.9103$945.25982@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> <mailman.1054702568.9014.python-list@python.org> <bbk4m4$1k2n$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz> <3EDDEF4D.CEB99B24@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <878ysh1hei.fsf@pobox.com>

> > > On Wed, 2003-06-04 at 02:32, Carl Waldbieser wrote:
> > >
> > >>Does anyone know of a Python module that can parse a JavaScript source file?
[...]

I don't know of one, and I did look quite carefully a while back
(though for an interpreter, not a parser).

The Mozilla project has two implementations -- one in C
(SpiderMonkey), one in Java (called Rhino).  Presumably they export a
parser interface of some sort.  You could use Jython or JPE to get at
Rhino, or SWIG, boost python, ctypes, or whatever to get at the C
version.

Let us know if you do it.


John



From tomas at fancy.org  Sat Jun 21 14:27:31 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:27:31 -0700
Subject: unittest and automatically firing off tests
References: <e9o7fvo04c3ocnp352vqbmmhrku30i61h4@4ax.com> <873ci3lk2o.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <6b89fv0vslaj7st4mevsllcn8lnnpjdisu@4ax.com>

John J. Lee wrote:

> > 1) Why in the name of all that is holy does unittest.main() throw
> >    regardless of tests passing?
> 
> I guess you mean 'raise', not 'throw'.  Does it?  I don't think it
> does.

Yes, I mean raise, and yes, it does.  Have you tried executing it
before trying to give advice?

> > 2) Why can't I readily pass a list of tests to unittest.main()? 
> >    (I mean, besides the fact that it's not implemented; was this
> >    a concious ommision?)
> 
> PyUnit works in terms of TestSuites.  Read the docs.

Yes I know.  Unfortunately, those of us who have read the docs
and read the code understand that unittest.main() takes a module
name or a module, and not a TestSuite.

> For one kludge to run tests from several test scripts, see test.py in
> 
> http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientCookie/src/ClientCookie-0.4.2a.tar.gz
> 
> Doubtless I could have done it better if I'd used all of PyUnit's
> features.

Yeah, that's a pretty miserable hack.  From discussions
elsewhere, sucking in all of the tests in that way is pretty much
not nice.  ;)

> > 3) I feel like I should automatically batch up tests and fire
> >    them off to unittest.run() or something similar.  Is this as
> >    straight-forward and easy, and could I batch them all into one
> >    mega-suite?  Are there any reasons why I wouldn't want to do
> >    that?
> 
> I've always found
> 
> import unittest
> unittest.main()
> 
> to work fine for most things -- it builds test suites automatically if
> you use standard naming conventions, and has useful command line
> arguments, so you can run a particular TestCase or a particular test
> method on a TestCase from the command line.

Ok, but remember that that only works if all of your tests are in
the global namespace.  I suppose that can be, but that's not
really what I'm looking for either.


> If that's not enough, I know it's hard, but you'll just have to admit
> that you need to read the docs ;-)

Thanks, maybe you should yourself before offering this advice.  I
have found that the docs that are available are seriously
incomplete so I ended up actually reading the code.


-tom!



From achrist at easystreet.com  Sun Jun 29 20:32:40 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 17:32:40 -0700
Subject: AN ENROLMENT PROJECTION PROBLEM
References: <37ee60c8.0306290442.60be2b57@posting.google.com> <3EFF0B14.4090307@blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT> <37ee60c8.0306291509.5f8fd5f9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EFF8528.C00287EF@easystreet.com>

For help with a problem like this, try posting a questioon here:

http://boards.eesite.com/board.cgi?boardset=Actuary

You should find some APL fans there and some people who do and know
demography and population problems.

Al

Ajith Prasad wrote:
> 
> Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy <paddy3118 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT> wrote in message news:<3EFF0B14.4090307 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT>...
> > Ajith Prasad wrote:
> > > I would appreciate advice on how best to formulate the following
> > > problem in Python. I have originally posted the problem to the J
> > > Programming forum and received a one-line formulation ((#s)
> > > (|.s)&(+/@:*)\ I)! I was wondering what the equivalent Python
> > > formulation would be.
> >
> > Wow! that one line formulation is dense.
> > Why do you *want* a compact answer?
> > I'm curious, if you put it down, do you have problems undestanding the
> > above program in a weeks time?
> > Or in a days time?
> >
> > Cheers, Pad.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The Problem:
> > >
> > > The enrolment E(n) of an institution at the beginning of year n is the
> > > sum of the intake for year n, I(n), and the survivors from the intakes
> > > of previous r years. Thus, if s(1) is the 1-year intake survival rate,
> > > s(2) is the 2-year survival rate, etc, we have:
> > >
> > > E(n)= I(n)+I(n-1)*s(1)+ I(n-2)*s(2)+...+I(n-r)*s(r)
> > > E(n+1)= I(n+1)+I(n)*s(1)+I(n-1)*s(2)+... +I(n-r-1)*s(r)
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > E(n+k)= I(n+k)+I(n+k-1)*s(1)+I(n+k-2)*s(2)+...+I(n+k-r)*s(r)
> > >
> > > Given:
> > > (a) the actual intakes for the current and previous r years, I(n),
> > > I(n-1),I(n-2),..,I(n-r), and the planned intakes for the next n+k
> > > years: I(n+1), I(n+2),..., I(n+k), we have the intake vector I =
> > > (I(n-r), I(n-r-1),...,I(n),I(n+1),..., I(n+k)); and
> > > (b) the survival rate vector, s = (1,s(1), s(2),...,s(r))
> > > Find:
> > > The  k*1 enrolment projection column vector, E =
> > > (E(n+1),E(n+2),...,E(n+k)) in terms of a k*(r+1) matrix P (derived
> > > from
> > > I) and the (r+1)*1 column vector, s.
> > >
> > > I = P*s
> > >
> > > Is there a compact Python representation of the relevant matrix P
> > > where:
> > >
> > > P = [I(n+1) I(n) I(n-1).. . I(n-r)
> > >      I(n+2) I(n+1) I(n)...  I(n-r-1)
> > >      .
> > >      .
> > >      I(n+k) I(n+k-1) I(n+k-2)... I(n+k-r)]
> > >
> > > Alternatively, a non-matrix formulation of the problem would be
> > > acceptable. Thanks in advance for any suggestions on how to proceeed.
> I do not require an equally compact Python formulation - any solution
> that works will do. The J solution works but I do not why! It was
> formulated by a J expert and if one is very competent in J, I suppose
> one could follow the logic. In Python, I look forward to a readable
> and comprehensible solution. Thanks.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jun  8 19:14:31 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 01:14:31 +0200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3he71hk52.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1u1b1h908.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3brx9xepd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1k7bwhnv5.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <m33cikw4a0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Ed Avis <ed at membled.com> writes:

> >That doesn't answer my question. What would be the output of this
> >statement?
> 
> It is syntactically ambiguous because of the two print statements both
> accepting commas.  

This still doesn't answer my question "What would be the output?",
since you say how you interpret the imagined output, but you don't say
what output you imagine.

I assume you want it to cause a SyntaxError.

Then the question is what algorithm exactly do you apply to detect an
ambiguity?

> >>Is it a rule of Python's grammar that no construct should ever require
> >>parenthesizing just to stop it being ambiguous?  
> >
> >No, there is no such rule.
> 
> So there is no reason to reject out of hand allowing one-line
> statements in lambda just because such constructs may require
> parenthesizing when used inside larger statements like 'print'.  

No, it is rejected because nobody has made a specification, yet, as to
how exactly it should work. Only if a precise, detailed, complete, and
implementable specification is made, it can be studied for undesired
effects, and possibly be rejected.

Actually, it doesn't need to be implementable - then we could reject
it for not being implementable.

> There may be other grammatical reasons of course.

Most likely. Without a precise, detailed, complete and implementable
spec, it is hard to tell what these reasons are.

> Elsewhere in this thread I have mentioned
> 
>     lambda_form ::=
>                  "lambda" [parameter_list]: simple_stmt
> 
> which seems to match the specification of 'any statement that can fit
> on one line' (which itself seems pretty exact to me).

Elsewhere in the thread I have said that this interpretation is
incorrect: a simple_stmt always ends with a NEWLINE, something which
you apparently don't want.

> >Then, if you have completed the specification, the problem likely is
> >that your proposed grammar is either counter-intuitive, or
> >unimplementable (depending on your specification).
> 
> Let's see which it is.

It's counter-intuitive that

x = (lambda s: print s)

is incorrect. Under your proposal, it would be incorrect, and you
would have to write

x = (lambda s: print s
)

to insert the necessary NEWLINE.

Regards,
Martin



From bernie at 3captus.com  Tue Jun  3 14:10:48 2003
From: bernie at 3captus.com (Bernard Yue)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 18:10:48 GMT
Subject: Variable Modifications in a class
References: <mailman.1054658001.11458.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EDCE4BA.2030804@3captus.com>

Mehta, Anish wrote:

> Hello!
>
> I am having a problem in tackling the variables in the class.
>
> class AB:
>   def __init__(self):
>       self.a = None
>       self.b = None
>
> def func(ab):
>   b = ab()
>   c = ab()
>
>   b.a = 5
>   b.b = 10

[snip]

>
>   c = b

Here is the problem.  You set c equal to b!

>
>   c.a = 30
>   c.b = 40
>
>   print b.a, b.b
>   print c.a, c.b
>   t = func(AB)
>
>
> Output is
> 30 40
> 30 40
>
> I want the output to be
> 5 10
> 30 40
>
> I mean every instance should modify its own set of variables not the 
> variables of the other instances of the class. The output of the set 
> of variables of b should not be affected by modifying those variables 
> by another instance of the same class.
>
> Waiting for suggestions.
>
> Thanks in advnace.
>
> Regards,
>
> Anish
>
>





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jun 27 14:10:37 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 20:10:37 +0200
Subject: Possible project - Python mail proxy to do greylisting, etc.
References: <bdhqhe$3bh$1@main.gmane.org> <c9sofvk2gk49egj6g7i12n2ne1vslm071e@4ax.com> <3EFC85C7.3090703@4-am.com>
Message-ID: <bdi1ab$d82$1@main.gmane.org>

Evan Simpson wrote:

> I was obviously not clear enough when I said "project like this",
> though.  Python code to proxy SMTP isn't hard to come by, but I was
> talking about a Python proxy that does interesting things with the data
> provided by HELO, RCPT TO, and MAIL FROM.
>
> In particular, I'm interested in making it very easy to experiment with
> various greylisting, tarpitting, and sender validation configurations.
> I could certainly start from Spambayes' code, or just use async

there's also Sam Rushing's SpamWall:

    http://www.nightmare.com/squirl/spam/

(a bit old, so it might require some minor tweaks to run with
recent versions of asyncore)

</F>







From mwh at python.net  Thu Jun 12 09:05:33 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:05:33 GMT
Subject: Properties using metaclasses (was: Function/Method Decorator Syntax)
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <20030610142845.4540.qmail@green.zadka.com> <20030611013918.GA2113@frobozz> <20030611085935.GG2113@frobozz> <20030611110300.GA3350@nl.linux.org> <mailman.1055334140.8489.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h38ys7mov2.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Andrew Bennetts <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> writes:

> A more extreme example of abusing class was shown to me at PyCon by a fellow
> Twisted developer (who shall remain nameless so that he won't get mobbed by
> angry hordes ;) ... it looked something like this:
> 
> ----
> class Adder(type):
>     def __new__(cls, name, bases, dict):
>         return reduce(lambda x,y: x+y, bases, 0)
> 
> class C(1, 2, 3, 4, 5):
>     __metaclass__ = Adder
> 
> print C
> ----
> 
> There's some things the class keyword was just never meant to do.

I managed do something like this:

class Add(GF, int, str):
    def call(i, s):
        print "int, str"

class Add(GF, int, int):
    def call(i, i):
        print "int, int"

then

>>> Add(1,2)
int, int
>>> Add(1,"a")
int, str

Can't find a version of the code that actually works now, though.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  It *is*, however, rather juvenile, in contravention of the 
  Trades Descriptions Act, and will lead eventually to the Dragon 
  of Unhappiness flying up your bottom.      -- Peter Ellis, ucam.chat



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Sat Jun 14 16:58:36 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 13:58:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pythonCOM with Flash
In-Reply-To: <87adckfz28.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <RvPFa.37$zx6.1430@news.optus.net.au> <GV%Fa.2949$GU5.41737@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
 <TVfGa.76$zx6.3873@news.optus.net.au> <xEhGa.3736$GU5.50995@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
 <3ee9bfff$0$8301$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <mailman.1055513666.7326.python-list@python.org>
 <87adckfz28.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306141354350.21321@ns0.tbye.com>

On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, John J. Lee wrote:

> Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> writes:
>
> > On Fri, 13 Jun 2003,  wrote:
> >
> > > So, if I understand correctly I cannot use Flash as a GUI without another
> > > GUI to contain the flash object.
> > >
> > > am I right?
> >
> > That is probably the case, but that doesn't mean that the other GUI needs
> > to be a full GUI framework (like wxPython, Tkinter, Qt) - you could use
> [...]
>
> Would that even work?  I know Qt has suport for ActiveX controls (or
> whatever you want to call them), but do wx & Tk?

Can't speak for Tk (althought I'd be willing to bet that it does have
support for ActiveX controls somehow - maybe Pmw?) but wx certainly does.
In fact, the wxPython demo includes two examples. But still, for this case
the most lightweight approach would be ctypes.

> > native Win32 calls to create the toplevel window that contains the Flash
> > object and that's most of what you need.
> [...]
>
> Or use IE as the control container.  I think Alex Martelli has posted
> here about this (probably at length ;-) in the past.

I don't think this would do what the OP wants, though. The point (as I
understood it) was to be able to use Python for the underlying app logic
and Flash as the UI. If you put the Flash control inside IE you're really
not that much closer to the goal and you've created more work for yourself
since you have to fiddle with both Python <--> IE as well as IE <--> Flash
control.

-Dave




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jun  5 14:27:00 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:27:00 -0600
Subject: Sort()
In-Reply-To: <3EDF7086.40001@cs.nott.ac.uk>; from txo@cs.nott.ac.uk on Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 05:32:06PM +0100
References: <3EDF7086.40001@cs.nott.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20030605122700.B6890@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Turhan Ozen:
  [...]
> Instead of [a1,a2,a3] becoming [a2,a1,a3], I would like the order remain 
> same but
> 
> a1.rank=2
> a2.rank=1
> a3.rank=3
> 
> How can I do this? Does this functionality already exist? If not could 
> you please give me advice on how to implement it? [...]

Create another list containing the same objects, sort that, then
assign the rank attribute according to position in that other list.

    def assignranks(lst):
        sorted = lst[:]
        sorted.sort()
        for i in range(len(sorted)):   # use enumerate() instead in Python 2.3
            sorted[i].rank = i

(Actually in your example above it seems you want .rank = i+1.
But I prefer to stick with zero-based indexing.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"What I find most baffling about that song is that it was not a hit."
                                          -- Tony Dylan Davis (CKUA)




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jun  6 08:06:23 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:06:23 -0500
Subject: Persistent sets
In-Reply-To: <16096.2954.202393.226411@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <16096.2954.202393.226411@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <16096.33727.410697.158136@montanaro.dyndns.org>

Following up my own post...  I later realized I had to be careful not to
wipe out the persistent set's _data attribute because it might then become
non-persistent.  A quick scan of sets.py revealed that the Set.__iand__
method needed to be changed.

    import sets
    import shelve

    class PersistentSet(sets.Set):
        def __init__(self, file, iterable=None):
            self._data = shelve.open(file)
            if iterable is not None:
                self._update(iterable)

        def __iand__(self, other):
            """Update a set with the intersection of itself and another."""
            self._binary_sanity_check(other)
            ia = (self & other)._data
            self._data.clear()
            self._data.update(ia)
            return self

Again, no tests yet.  Maybe I'll get around to adapting some of the tests
from the sets module unit tests...

Skip




From eat at joes.com  Thu Jun 26 22:22:36 2003
From: eat at joes.com (Jason Kratz)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:22:36 GMT
Subject: stupid question about os.listdir
Message-ID: <MTNKa.2930$BM.1845254@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

OK. I've search on google groups and around the web for this and I 
haven't found an answer.  I'm a Python newbie and have what I assume is 
a basic question.  os.listdir takes a pathname as an arg but it doesn't 
actually list the contents of the dir I pass in.   it always operates on 
the current dir (wherever the script is run) and I have to chdir 
beforehand.  Is that how its supposed to work?  If so what is the point 
in passing in a pathname?

thanks,

Jason




From no at spam.invalid  Fri Jun 27 12:42:20 2003
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:42:20 -0700
Subject: Tkiniter proposed enhancement; anybody care?
Message-ID: <bdhs5d$20qa$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

I posted this to the Python developer's mailing list (via the gmane news 
service; my first try so I'm not sure it showed up on the mailing list, 
though it showed up fine on gmane) and got no response. So...I'm curious 
if anybody saw it, and also if anybody has any reaction.

----------------

I'd like to introduce a small enhancement to Tkinter, but would like 
some idea of whether it has a chance of acceptance before proceeding too 
far (e.g. before checking in a patch).

The primary change is to add a "name" argument to the Variable.__init__, 
bringing it in line with other Tkinter classes. The justification is to 
allow users to create new Tkinter variables that point to existing tcl 
variables (e.g. somewhat similar to nametowidget). In some cases this 
may be more convenient than using setvar and getvar.

Subtlety:
- A new __eq__ method makes two Tkinter variables compare as equal if 
they are of the same type and have the same tcl name.

If it is not overreaching, I'd like to introduce a few related changes 
at the same time.

1) add a "value" argument to Variable.__init__. This would set the 
initial value of the new variable -- a feature I've long wanted.

Subtlety:
- If "name" is specified and the variable already exists, then "value" 
is ignored (so the existing value is preserved). One could always ignore 
"value" if the variable exists, but I suspect users would prefer to 
assume that newly created auto-named variables will be properly 
initialized to some default value.

2) add a new function "nametovariable" which returns a Tkinter variable 
given the name of a tcl variable.

Subtleties:
- To return a Tkinter variable of the correct class, this requires 
changing the auto naming scheme for Tkinter variables. I propose 
PY_class_num where class is the appropriate subclass of Variable. This 
is the only change that has any danger of affecting existing code.
- If the name does not meet the criteria, a StringVar is returned
- If the tcl variable does not exist, an exception is raised. This is 
not necesarry, but prevents accidentaly creating a new variable when one 
was trying to point to an existing one.

If this is too much of a change for 2.3b1 but might be considered for 
later releases, I'd like some idea if I should submit any of it now or 
wait or what.

-- Russell



From cybersamurai at mac.com  Fri Jun 20 17:20:59 2003
From: cybersamurai at mac.com (Luiz Siqueira)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:20:59 -0300
Subject: kthtml problem
Message-ID: <6003593.1056144059330.JavaMail.cybersamurai@mac.com>

I have two problems.

1. I can't install kthtml on redhat 9, I give this error message on compiling:

creating makemake.tcl
can't read "CC": no such variable
    while executing
"set link "${CC} -shared -Wl,-soname,${@}""
    (procedure "MakeShLib" line 4)
    invoked from within
"MakeShLib tkhtml $obj"

I try too using rpm but the version is old and I can't remove the new tcl and tk libs.

2. Is possible I put tk/tcl, tkhtml, Python and my application on one exec file?

Thanks for Help.




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Jun  5 21:59:29 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 21:59:29 -0400
Subject: Importing mdl files into OpenGl with Python
In-Reply-To: <bblecn$b02$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
References: <bblecn$b02$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <3EDFF581.5010807@rogers.com>

I would imagine you'll find converters around the net which can take an 
mdl file and export in other, more recent & common formats.  Raw OpenGL 
code is occasionally a format produced, and that might very well just 
load directly under PyOpenGL.  A fairly decent subset of VRML97 can be 
loaded by OpenGLContext (built on PyOpenGL).  The OSG system also has a 
considerable set of importers, so you might see if they can help.

If you really do need to load the .mdl files directly from Python, 
you'll likely need to roll/wrap your own, as I haven't heard of such a 
module as of yet.

Good luck,
Mike

Mikey At Work wrote:

>Does anyone know any simple ways to import mdl files into OpenGL using
>Python?  Any modules out there that will do this for me?  Thanks.
>
>
>  
>

-- 
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jun 15 08:02:32 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:02:32 +0200
Subject: printing non-ASCII characters - please explain
In-Reply-To: <3eec5d44$0$28026$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be>
References: <3eec5d44$0$28026$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3EEC6058.40504@ghaering.de>

Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> please explain the following difference to me (with cvs-python)
> 
> N='H\xf6fig'
> 
> print N
> 
> this prints H?fig     which contains the Germain umlaut '?' = oe = \xf6
> 
> but
> 
> print [N]
> prints
> ['H\xf6fig']
> 
> why 

Because print invokes repr() on the object to print.

repr for lists is implemented in C, but if it were written in Python, it 
would probably look like:

#v+
class list:
     [...]
     def __repr__(self):
         return "[%s]" % ", ".join([repr(x) for x in self.items])
#v-

> - and how can I change this?

Use an explicit function to format the list how you want it to be. If 
you're not aware of the difference between str() and repr(), I'd 
recommend you look them up in the Python documentation.

-- Gerhard




From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Fri Jun 27 14:53:33 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:53:33 +0100
Subject: Using Python as a tool for testing homogeneous systems
Message-ID: <200306271953.33329.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

Pythonistas!

You may remember I recently posted about having to learn RPG, and that I was 
not entirely 'looking forward' to it - the technical challenge is 
interesting, but the language is not, well, /pythonic/.  Well, that's over 
and done with now (though I now need to learn the next version too).  

So, now I'm a fully fledged (wince) RPG 'Developer', I suppose I ought to be 
making snide comments about such slow, easy-to-write (and therefore 
technically stunted), dynamic, interpreted languages such as Python are.

But I can't.  Python is *too* damned good: and they haven't made me stop using 
it at work, either; in fact I've just spent a few weeks doing some really 
intensive Python development... to test RPG code!

At our site (a large manufacturing installation) we run several different 
systems:  AS/400, HP-UX, Notes, Windows and SAP to name a few.  We are 
connected to our parent company over a WAN link: and we are migrating our 
business systems to SAP, and during the transition (which will last at least 
a few years) we have to process messages from SAP on systems that run on both 
AS/400's and the HP's.  

We went through phase 1 late last year, and well into the first quarter - I 
wasn't involved, but got the impression we had serious grief over it.

For the first phase, messages had to be sent from SAP and through our main 
systems, for testing.  But with three development teams spread over Europe, 
there were huge difficulties with synchronizing testing;  we couldn't test 
our code until the SAP team had done their stuff, but they often wanted to 
test functionality we hadn't even built yet, or just sent messages that our 
system couldn't yet understand without warning, causing programs to crash and 
a lot of untangling afterwards.  This resulted in the first phase taking far 
longer (about 3 months) than had been planned.

As a fledgeling RPG'er, I am now included in the development team, and we are 
just embarking on phase 2.

At our opening meeting, about 3 weeks ago, our Project leader completely 
floored me, by suggesting that we use Python as a test tool: he knows I use 
it for allsorts, and it seems my insistent whining on about how brilliant it 
is, has actually been noted; I think he was, somewhat, 'throwing down the 
gauntlet'...

So last week I wrote the beginnings of a dynamic record-object and intelligent 
field objects, and this week wrote a program to craft messages that look like 
they came from SAP, to input into our system.

We were doing a simple test-bughunt-retest cycle; I can now produce programs 
to cover various scenarios at the drop of a hat.  Our testing has been fairly 
fast-paced, and we haven't had to wait for the SAP team to get their bit 
going...  

Our Project Leader says we're about two-to-three-weeks *AHEAD* of schedule; 
the SAP team aren't even ready to send the simplest message type for testing, 
but we're able to process them, and more, and we know what issues we need to 
deal with already.

All I need now is a Python-to-RPG converter... ;-)  

(Yes, I know there are versions of Python for AS/400 and HP-UX, but for 
various reasons, these are not an option).

So, Python scores again!

regards, 
-andyj









From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Fri Jun 27 01:50:25 2003
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com (Me Mine)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:50:25 -0400
Subject: win32ui screen capture
References: <o43nfvsc8r4q934p709l1g3thtoube37qn@4ax.com> <IlQKa.4463$Ei4.1683@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <07lnfvcjkiompq4f56gioiing7okf7khjp@4ax.com>

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 05:11:04 GMT, "Mark S Pryor"
<marks.pryorSHRUB at CHENEYverizon.net> wrote:

>Hi,
><Me Mine> wrote in message
>news:o43nfvsc8r4q934p709l1g3thtoube37qn at 4ax.com...
>> i,
>> I have trying to code a small console app that will
>> allow a user to select a window and then create a
>> screen capture of the window.  I haven't been able to
>> figure out how to do the screen capture part.  The
>> code is as follows, the commented out lines at the end
>> are things I have tried, but don't work.  Whenever I
>> try to create a compatibe Bitmap or DC it comes back
>> with an error as
>> win32ui: CreateCompatibleDC failed
>> or
>> AttributeError: CreateCompatibleDC
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> import win32gui
>> import win32ui
>>
>> numWindows = 0
>> windows = []
>> winDict = {}
>> windowsText=[]
>> inc = 0
>>
>> def _MyCallback( hwnd, extra ):
>> extra.append(hwnd)
>>
>>
>> win32gui.EnumWindows(_MyCallback, windows)
>> for i in windows:
>> if win32gui.IsWindowVisible(i):
>> if win32gui.IsWindowVisible:
>> windowsText.append(i)
>> winDict[numWindows] = i
>> numWindows +=1
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> print "Please select a window to capture"
>> for window in windowsText:
>> windowText = win32gui.GetWindowText(window)
>> print inc, windowText
>> inc += 1
>>
>> selection = input()
>>
>> print win32gui.GetWindowText(winDict[selection])
>> myDC = win32ui.CreateDCFromHandle(winDict[selection])
>> win32gui.SetForegroundWindow(winDict[selection])
>> win_sz = win32gui.GetClientRect(winDict[selection])
>> myBitMap = win32ui.CreateBitmap()
>> #myMemDC = win32ui.CreateCompatibleDC(myDC)
>> #myBitMap.BitBlt((0,0),(win_sz[2],win_sz[3],myDC,(0,0),0))
>> #myBitMap.CreateCompatibleBitMap(myDC,win_sz[2], win_sz[3])
>> #myBitMap.CreateCompatibleDC(myDC)
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rob
>
>You may be able to make this work ... eventually. However,
>circulating in the Python community you will find the C file
>_grabscreen.c with all the same API calls you are trying to use
>in standard C.
>
>see this post
>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1011217637.9447.python-list%40p
>ython.org
>
>It explains how to compile the module _grabscreen.pyd with MS Visual C.
>I was able to get a screen shot script in 10 minutes after I read this
>post. If you don't have a grabscreen module already, see this ZIP file
>for the relevant files. Use the file ImageGrab1.py to make a screen
>capture of the desktop and save the results as PNG.
>
>(for ActivePython 2.2 only)
>http://mysite.verizon.net/res1ur2j/GrabScreen.zip
>
>you will need PIL from
>http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/
>
>hth,
>Mark Pryor
>
Thanks for reponding Mark.  I have looked at the grab function in
ImagrGrab from PIL.  And it does do exactly what I want it to do,
which is great, but I was hoping to do the program using win32ui and
win32gui so that I could get a better understanding over how Windows
(the OS) operates.  The part that bothers me (and the reason why I'm
pursueing this) is because in MS C++ the BitBlt function can take the
Window DC directly as opposed to the BitBlt function in python, which
cannot.  Python's BitBlt function (for PyCDC objects in win32ui), can
only take other PyCDC objects for the source of the copy.
Unfortunatley, once I have the window handle I can call the
GetWindowDC method, but it returns HDC  Yet, I unable to use this
object to call BitBlt on.  When I uncomment the the BitBlt line of
code I get a n error of

TypeError: The 'O' param must be a PyCDC object

So, it appears that I need to do something with the HDC, so I can do a
bitblt transer to the memory DC, but I don't know how to get a PyCDC
object from a HDC.

Thanks,

Rob


----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---



From tim at zope.com  Sat Jun 28 21:36:27 2003
From: tim at zope.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 21:36:27 -0400
Subject: ExtensionClass/Persistent and __cmp__ is tricky
In-Reply-To: <20030628025724.GA9873@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKECIEMAB.tim@zope.com>

[Christian Reis]
> So I read the docs on BTrees and `Total Ordering' at
> http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/guide/node6.html again. One of the key
> points here (as Tim pointed out) is that __cmp__ has to be carefully
> designed:
>
>     If you want to use class instances as keys, and there's any
>     possibility that the structure may be stored in a database, it's
>     crucial that the class define a __cmp__() method, and that the
>     method is carefully implemented.
>
> I'm fine with this, so I started some verification of the __cmp__
> method on IndexedObject, our Persistent-derived class. The first,
> basic, test I did, however, bothers me because it seems to echo
> something similar to what Greg Ward suggested back in
> http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2000-May/004420.html -- that
> cmp() is not completely compatible with ExtensionClass. Here's my
> (short) example:
>
>     >>> from ZODB import Persistent
>     >>> class Foo(Persistent):
>     ...    def __cmp__(self, other):
>     ...     print "Hi there"
>     ...     return cmp(self, other)
>     ...

This doesn't make much sense:  it's defining __cmp__ (indirectly) in terms
of __cmp__, so it's a recursive mess.

>     >>> f = Foo()
>     >>> f < 1

It also doesn't make much sense to compare a Foo against an integer.

>     Hi there [ repeated 21 times ]

Don't you also see 0 at the end here?

>     >>> f > 1
>     Hi there [ repeated 21 times ]

And don't you also see 0 at the end here?

>     >>> 1 < f
>     0
>     >>> 1 > f
>     1
>
> This goes against what I understand of the cmp() protocol. The PSL
> docs say:
>
>    __cmp__(self, other)
>        Called by comparison operations if rich comparison (see above)
>        is not defined. Should return a negative integer if self <
>        other, zero if self == other, a positive integer if self >
>        other. If no __cmp__() operation is defined, class instances
>        are compared by object identity (``address''). (Note: the
>        restriction that exceptions are not propagated by __cmp__()
>        has been removed in Python 1.5.)
>
> Am I understanding this correctly?

I don't know -- you haven't said what your understanding is <wink>.

> It seems you can't compare ExtensionClass with basic types; in Python
> 2.1.3 at least it appears to me that try_3way_compare doesn't want to
> call tp_compare on the second instance because it's not a PyInstance.

Possibly so.  I don't think anyone really understands the details of
ExtensionClass except for Jim (Fulton), and his understanding was fresh
years ago -- ExtensionClass isn't part of Python, it's part of Zope.

> PS: The interesting part is that it seems that comparing lists *does*
> work:

It remains unclear what "work" means to you -- honest!  I can't guess what
you *expect* any of these things to do.  I don't expect anything other than
that, e.g., 1<f deliver the same result as f>1.  It doesn't, so I suppose
there's a bug there.  I don't also assume that it's worth trying to fix
ExtensionClass, though (bang for the buck -- low (if any) benefit, probably
high cost).

>     >>> [] > f
>     Hi there [ repeated 21 times ]
>     0
>
> Which means I'm almost safe with using PersistentList, at any rate
> (which uses its List comparison).
>
> PPS: Anybody know why 21 times?

Assuming you're using Python 2.2.3, because of this #define in Python's
object.c:

#define NESTING_LIMIT 20

This gimmick is meant to enable Python to give a reasonable result when you
compare recursive (indirectly self-referential) data structures, like

    x = []
    x.append(x)
    y = []
    y.append(y)
    print x == y  # true, because the recursive objects are isomorphic

In the code at the top, this gimmick was tricked into giving an answer in
lieu of unbounded procedural recursion instead.

Are mixed-type and recursive comparisons really interesting to you in your
app?  If not, I advise dropping them and moving on to what you really want
to accomplish.  These are dark areas of Python, and perhaps by now only God
remembers how ExtensionClass works in all cases (I see that Greg never got a
reply to his msg you referenced above -- this isn't surprising, because it's
likely nobody knows the answer, and more to the point anybody who might have
thought they cared probably discovered it was much easier to redefine their
task so that an answer was no longer needed <0.3 wink>).





From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Mon Jun  9 10:37:02 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:37:02 -0600
Subject: signal handling oddity
In-Reply-To: <20030609142215.9399.qmail@green.zadka.com>
References: <20030609134716.915163335D@www.fastmail.fm>, <Tr9za.228673$pa5.224690@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <3H9za.47086$h42.8645@twister.nyc.rr.com> <Bmbza.211$Iq.22242517@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <d116fbae.0306090531.5d0fd55a@posting.google.com> <20030609142215.9399.qmail@green.zadka.com>
Message-ID: <20030609143702.B03B326F67@www.fastmail.fm>

Yeah, I was using twisted before for this server and it did handle
control-c correctly.  I was having problems getting authentication to
work though, so I ended up moving to SimpleXMLRPCServer and adding some
other code to get basic authentication to work.  I'm just not familiar
enough with twisted to know what to subclass/override, etc... to get
simple user/password authentication to work.

Would you be able to help me get this working?

Of course if twisted.cred is rewritten this month (like the comments on
the twisted list seem to indicate), my problems might be solved.  :-)

Thanks for the reply.
-Justin

On 9 Jun 2003 14:22:15 -0000, "Moshe Zadka" <m at moshez.org> said:
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2003, "Justin Johnson" <justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> 
> > I tried adding code to
> > handle SIGINT (below).  What happens now is, I control-c and nothing
> > happens, but when the next xmlrpc request comes through, the service
> > exits, running stopService.  So the control-c is caught, but only when
> > the next request comes through.  Anyone know why this is?
> 
> You didn't bother to mention which platform it is. In any case, the
> problem is due to some interaction between what Python does to make
> sure your signal handling is safe and how the OS works. I can never
> remember the exact reason, but it boils down to signals not interrupting
> blocking system calls. The solution, of course, is not to block. If
> SimeplXMLRPCServer uses what I think it does (an accept() call)
> then there is no easy way to solve it.
> 
> At the risk of annoying lots of people here, I would suggest using
> the Twisted XML-RPC server support. Twisted on Windows (where IIRC
> this problem manifests itself) will run select() for at most 5-second
> delays, so a C-c would have at most 5 second delays. If even that
> is too much,
> 
> def foo():
>     reactor.callLater(1, foo)
> foo()
> 
> should make sure it caps at 1 second, at the cost of a slight performance
> penalty.
> 
> Further reading:
> Using XML-RPC: http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/howto/xmlrpc
> Setting up the web server:
> http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/howto/using-twistedweb
> -- 
> Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
> Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
> Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with
> shortness.
> Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jun  2 14:48:18 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 20:48:18 +0200
Subject: A Python application server?
In-Reply-To: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3edb9bf2$0$49104$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Duncan Smith wrote:
> Hello,
>          I'm trying to put together a (basic) design for an online
> examination system.  The system already exists, but is based on Java
> technologies.  I have (probably prematurely) assured the author that the
> system could have been developed in Python.  This is based in faith rather
> than reason, as I have never had cause to consider such a thing before
> (although I can now envisage that I might need to develop a simple
> application server within the next year or so).
> 
> Having looked at PYRO, Twisted and WebWare I'm pretty confident that most of
> the technology is in place.  But I have been told that to emulate the
> existing system there would have to be a Python equivalent of an 'untrusted
> Java applet'.  (I'm not convinced this is actually necessary for the given
> app., but the existing system does use RMI and Java applets.)

Pyro is no "application server", it's more an enabling technology. Compare it 
with Java's RMI (but easier to use :-) ). Sure, Pyro contains a builtin 
server to dispatch incoming remote method calls to your own code, but it 
doesn't help you build a really complex system. Then again, you are free to 
build it the way you want: small & lean if that's all that is needed, large 
and complex if that's necessary, where Pyro fulfills the communication needs.

> What I'm basically trying to address is the following statement (from some
> of his lecture notes):
> 
> "Java is the only mainstream technology that adds the required level of
> safety for code travelling around a network, and the flexibility to invent
> our own controls, regardless of the operating system being used."

Pyro supports mobile code with a few technical limitations. There is NO 
security involved other than host-based and passphrase-based authentication 
(no sandboxed code or whatever).

> Forcing the client(s) to install much software is apparently out of the
> question (so no Grail / Python applets).  Any suggestions?  Cheers.

Will a web-based solution work (pure HTML pages)? Then all you need is a web 
browser on the clients. Leave all the difficult stuff on the server.

--Irmen




From malex at oleksa.agry.purdue.edu  Fri Jun 20 14:46:25 2003
From: malex at oleksa.agry.purdue.edu (OM)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:46:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: DBI and DBDs 4 Python
References: <2jhIa.101430$Ny5.2955102@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <bcvkq1$ah0$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>

On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:40:46 GMT, J?Gius? <exml at libero.it> unleashed unto the World:
> Hi,
> 
> Is there any database access module independent of the actual database being
> used? That is, a module that define methods and conventions in order to
> provide a consistent database interface regardless of the picked out RDBMS .
> 
> Merci.
> 
> Gius


http://www.firstworks.com/sqlrelay.html

Description: Database connection pooling, proxying and load balancing
 SQL Relay is a persistent database connection pooling, proxying and
 load balancing system for Unix and Linux supporting ODBC, Oracle,
 MySQL, mSQL, PostgreSQL, Sybase, MS SQL Server, IBM DB2, Interbase,
 Lago and SQLite with C, C++, Perl, Perl-DBD, Python, Python-DB, Zope,
 PHP, Ruby and Java APIs, command line clients, a GUI configuration tool
 and extensive documentation. The APIs support advanced database
 operations such as bind variables, multi-row fetches, client side
 result set caching and suspended transactions. It is ideal for speeding
 up database-driven web-based applications, accessing databases from
 unsupported platforms, migrating between databases, distributing access
 to replicated databases and throttling database access.



From duduca007 at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 24 20:27:27 2003
From: duduca007 at yahoo.com (Carlos Moreira)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OFF TOPIC: What did Guido say?
Message-ID: <20030625002727.20904.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com>

So, what did Guido say in:

http://www.python.org/~guido/guido.au

I hear this a thousand times, every day (my co-workers
want to kill me :) ), and still can't undertand
Guido's words. I especially pay attention to the funny
noise in the end.

     []'s

Cadu
[...besides guido.au, I play: freesoftware-song by
Stallman, Bjarne Stroustrup pronounciation by B.
Stroustrup, Linux prnounciation by Linus Torwalds, and
the Free Pascal Anthem sung by my friends...]

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jun 27 10:54:09 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:54:09 GMT
Subject: Year 2000 book still useful?
References: <JVOKa.3738$bJ2.3348@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <lUYKa.333832$3n5.219443@news2.central.cox.net>

"python newbie" <noemail at nospam.com> wrote in message
news:JVOKa.3738$bJ2.3348 at newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> I just realized that the book I recently bought, "The Quick Python Book",
is
> dated 2000.
>
> Was wanting to know if there are certain areas where I shouldn't try to
> learn, such as maybe OO concepts, so I don't learn outdated parts of
python
> ??
>
> thanks from a wannabe snake tamer

You're lucky, in that there's a very high degree of compatibility between
the new-style (type-based) and the old-style (class-based) implementations
of object-orientation in Python. It's only when you delve into the
implementation (using features like introspection) that you're likely to hit
trouble, so I'd be surprised if you hit any problems learning from an
introductory text.

Of course, there's *more* to learn in later versions, but backward
compatibility is a very striong point in Python's favor.

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From jack at performancedrivers.com  Sun Jun  1 06:20:19 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 06:20:19 -0400
Subject: Defensive programming
In-Reply-To: <hIqp1WAG0c2+Ew1+@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>; from robin@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk on Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 10:53:10AM +0100
References: <hIqp1WAG0c2+Ew1+@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20030601062019.K1276@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 10:53:10AM +0100, Robin Becker wrote:
> This recently slashdotted paper
> 
> http://www.cs.rice.edu/~scrosby/hash/CrosbyWallach_UsenixSec2003/index.html
> 
> suggests that many common algorithms (including perl hashing) are open to low input
> DoS attack.
> 
> I know that the Timbot and other python 'bots are pretty smart, but are there python
> algorithms that suffer the same vulnerabilities?
> 

The author brought this up on python-dev and the 'bots did indeed
disect the arguments.  The verdict was that it is interesting but not a
problem (or at least a solvable problem) in practice.  Specific problems are 
best solved at specific layers, and DoS attacks that eat CPU are best solved
at the operating system level.





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Jun 23 03:38:28 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:38:28 -0400
Subject: ASCII
In-Reply-To: <200306230729.h5N7TlX00899@mail011.syd.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <05q9+kKkXwJR092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:
|> The storage issue is kinda peripheral though.  The things that me and
|> Alan and Martin and the rest WRITE in these discussions is 7-bit
|> ASCII essays.  I could write these same compositions on an Underwood
|> typewriter with little extra effort (it would be a bit harder to let
|> thousands of people read them within minutes that way, but that's not
|> about the document format itself).

Tim Churches <tchur at optushome.com.au> wrote:
|Not necessarily - see http://www.multipledigression.com/type/

But that's just a Smith Corona.  No self-respecting Underwood would let
itself get wired up.  Now those Martinelli's[1] are absolutely
profligate in their cyborg connectivity, but they're hardly to be
trusted because of their voracious, almost Pythonic appetites.[2]

[1] Hmmm... curious similarity.

[2] E.g., http://www.davidcronenberg.de/snslunch.html

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------





From bdeck at lycos.co.uk  Wed Jun  4 15:21:49 2003
From: bdeck at lycos.co.uk (deckerben)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:21:49 +0200
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
References: <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <3EDDF17B.F7B930E@engcorp.com> <3ede00c9$0$16597$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <3EDE1F6A.53494350@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3ede49f8$0$16629$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3EDE1F6A.53494350 at engcorp.com...
> > > By the way, do you really mean DOS, as in MS-DOS or PC-DOS or
something
> > > *without* Windows running on top, or do you just mean in a DOS window
> > > of one of Microsoft's operating systems?

> > But Python DOES run under DOS, especially well under DJGPP. Have you
seen
> > our project at htpp://members.lycos.co.uk/bdeck ??

> Okay, so back to point 2: are you sure these packages are fully supported
> by the DOS Python you have running?  Is this Python 100% compatible with,
> say, the Win32 version?  Does select.select() work exactly as it is
expected
> to, and so on?  If so, I guess you're in great shape...

Well, I have so far been successful with simple things like the ping and
telnet client examples that come with PythonD. The telnet client uses
select() to determine if the host is still sending data or not (fork is NOT
available on PythonD).

Like I mentioned before, the 4suite XSLT processing works under DOS, so we
are sure so far of that much... I am asking this group for their analysis of
these two server packages, as maybe it will help me reach a descision which
one we should persue...

Ben





From nospam at nospam.net  Fri Jun 20 09:50:29 2003
From: nospam at nospam.net (c42)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:50:29 GMT
Subject: Enumerate Exchange users
Message-ID: <MPG.195cdb4f2a480d08989683@news2.atlantic.net>

Does anyone have any sample code for enumerating users on an Exchange 
server? I can get the users from the DC, but the two list won't always 
match.

Thanks,
c42

Windows NT4 , Exchange 5.5




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Fri Jun  6 14:41:53 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 11:41:53 -0700
Subject: magic tricks
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306061041.6a7b821d@posting.google.com>

#<change.py>

import sys
callerglobals=sys._getframe(1).f_globals

def a(x):
    callerglobals['a']=x

#</change.py>

>>> import change
>>> a=1
>>> change.a(2)
>>> a
2

This works, but the standard library explicitely warns AGAINT this kind 
of magic tricks. Thus my question: what's the safe way of doing this 
(BTW, what can go wrong with sys._getframe approach) ? 

In other words, I want to change a global variable of a given module by 
invoking a different module (and I know this is not a Good Thing ;-)


                               Michele



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jun  5 14:26:08 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 18:26:08 GMT
Subject: Sort()
References: <mailman.1054831814.32487.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbo200$odv$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:42:07 -0500, sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:

>> From: Turhan Ozen [mailto:txo at cs.nott.ac.uk]
>> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:32 AM
>> 
>> I created a class and modified the default _comp_  function.  
>> I can sort an array of instances of this class. But I don't
>> want to change the original array. Instead, I want to keep
>> the positions after sorting in an attribute of the instances.
>> 
>> Instead of [a1,a2,a3] becoming [a2,a1,a3], I would like the 
>> order remain same but
>> 
>> a1.rank=2
>> a2.rank=1
>> a3.rank=3
>> 
>> How can I do this? Does this functionality already exist? If 
>> not could you please give me advice on how to implement it?
>> I have read the HOWTO on sorting, there is an example of sorting
>> classes there. Is there any other place where I can find more
>> examples of using Python functions?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Turhan.
>>
>
>Hmmm... you could simulate it with:
>
>## First we have...
>L = [ ... original list ... ]
>
>## Now, we create a sorted version of the list:
>SL = L[:]
>SL.sort()
>
>## We now create a dictionary keyed by item, relating to it's index:
>D = dict( zip(SL, range(len(SL))) )
>
>## And now, we transfer the index position as an attribute to
>## the items on the original list:
>for item in L:
>   item.rank = D[item]
>
Might be a problem if some objects are not hashable, or if they
hash to identical values (i.e., duplicates in list), so maybe

for i in xrange(len(SL)): setattr(SL[i], 'rank', i)

is safer. E.g.,

 >>> class X:
 ...     def __init__(self, v): self.v = v
 ...     def __cmp__(self,other): return cmp(self.v, other.v)
 ...     def __repr__(self): return '<X:%r>'%self.v
 ...
 >>> import random
 >>> L = [X(random.choice('abcdefg')) for i in xrange(8)]
 >>> L
 [<X:'a'>, <X:'a'>, <X:'b'>, <X:'c'>, <X:'b'>, <X:'g'>, <X:'g'>, <X:'d'>]
 >>> SL = L[:]
 >>> SL
 [<X:'a'>, <X:'a'>, <X:'b'>, <X:'c'>, <X:'b'>, <X:'g'>, <X:'g'>, <X:'d'>]
 >>> SL.sort()
 >>> SL
 [<X:'a'>, <X:'a'>, <X:'b'>, <X:'b'>, <X:'c'>, <X:'d'>, <X:'g'>, <X:'g'>]
 >>> L
 [<X:'a'>, <X:'a'>, <X:'b'>, <X:'c'>, <X:'b'>, <X:'g'>, <X:'g'>, <X:'d'>]
 >>> for i in xrange(len(SL)): setattr(SL[i],'rank',i)
 ...
 >>> L
 [<X:'a'>, <X:'a'>, <X:'b'>, <X:'c'>, <X:'b'>, <X:'g'>, <X:'g'>, <X:'d'>]
 >>> [x.rank for x in L]
 [0, 1, 2, 4, 3, 6, 7, 5]
 >>> [x.rank for x in SL]
 [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7]


Regards,
Bengt Richter



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun  9 16:54:23 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 16:54:23 -0400
Subject: py2exe and dynamic modules
References: <ve9ldqsa3h1d9d@corp.supernews.com> <3EE4D985.B091FA88@engcorp.com> <ve9ne08860r10a@corp.supernews.com> <3EE4EB9C.8533EE25@engcorp.com> <ve9sl37is8jp87@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3EE4F3FF.9B3B31D1@engcorp.com>

"Uwe C. Schroeder" wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> > Run imptest.exe from a directory other than c:/temp:
> >
> > "test OK" results.
> >
> > Looks like it works...  (I'm doing this test first... what did I do
> > wrong this time?  :-)
> 
> :-)) You knew the path up front. But I'll probably do just that and install
> the modules in a fixed path, although I don't really like it. But I guess
> it's easier than fiddling around with the  py2exe import stuff.

Don't make it so hard on yourself!  Here's version two, without a
hardcoded path:

import sys
sys.path.append(sys.argv[1])
filename = sys.argv[2]
try:
    mod = __import__(filename)
    print mod.test()
except:
    print 'test failed!'


Still works... ;-)

-Peter



From theller at python.net  Thu Jun 12 04:35:43 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 10:35:43 +0200
Subject: Python Regex Newbie- matching substrings
References: <798d4337.0306120009.46cdef2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <adcnofq8.fsf@python.net>

danieljng at yahoo.com (Daniel) writes:

> Hi,
> 
> I would like my regex to detect that a month (any month) is in the
> following line, returning the index of the start of the match:
> 
> Jun 05 14:40:26 2003 .....
> 
> 
> So far, I've tried:
> 
>   months       = re.compile('(Jan)')
>   searchResult = months.search('abcJan')
>   print searchResult.start()
> 
> 
> -Which works for just 'Jan' of course, and it correctly prints '3'. 
> 
> 
> How do I get it to work for all months? 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried:
> 
>   months       = re.compile('[(Jan)(Feb)(Mar)]+')
> 
> 
> -but that regex is too 'greedy' ie. matches too easily- I think it
> matches the individual letters in each of Jan, Feb, Mar instead.

IMO you should use
  months = re.compile("Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Sep|Oct|Nov|Dec")
instead.

Thomas



From Ifman1 at comcast.net  Sun Jun  8 19:33:40 2003
From: Ifman1 at comcast.net (Ifman1)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:33:40 -0400
Subject: interpreted
Message-ID: <M6icneVATOpIWn6jXTWcrg@comcast.com>

Python is interpreted, right?  Is there anyway to make it compiled to
machine code?  Will this make it faster?





From just at xs4all.nl  Fri Jun  6 13:16:05 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 19:16:05 +0200
Subject: Efficient data flow between orthogonal C extensions?
References: <slrnbdsl66.21h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no> <87el29rpmv.fsf@smtp.gsi.de> <slrnbdubsl.32h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no> <87znkwwmbg.fsf@smtp.gsi.de> <slrnbdvdlb.dfi.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no> <slrnbdvgch.la4.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no> <fzmnvhly.fsf@python.net> <slrnbe1ipf.1vo.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <just-EE3F4D.19160506062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <slrnbe1ipf.1vo.mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no>,
 mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) wrote:

> In article <fzmnvhly.fsf at python.net>, Thomas Heller wrote:
> >mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) writes:
> [snip]
> >I have no answer to this question, and haven't really followed the
> >thread, but I have the vague impression that ctypes could also help
> >here. It allows to create C callable callback functions from Python
> >callable objects, see the qsort example in the tutorial.
> 
> Sounds good -- but that's only under Windows? (Or?)

Windows and any unix that's supported by libffi.

Just



From doru-cat at ifi.uio.no  Fri Jun 27 06:02:47 2003
From: doru-cat at ifi.uio.no (Doru-Catalin Togea)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:02:47 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: Newbie Tkinter questions
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.56.0306271150510.2938@tva.ifi.uio.no>

Hei!

I am trying to get up and working with Tkinter fast. I have some
documentation like Fredrik Lundh's An Introduction to Tkinter.

Can you please tell what I am missing in the following programme:

from Tkinter import *

########################################################################
# GLOBAL VARIABLES
########################################################################

root = Tk()
schools = [("HIO", "1"), ("NITH", "2"),]
rbSchools = None 		# initialize later on to a Radiobutton
				# object
lArchiveNo = None		# Label
eArchiveNo = None		# Entry
v = StringVar()
v.set("0") 			# For the Radiobutton: no choice

########################################################################
# FUNCTIONS
########################################################################

def chooseSchool(value):
	print "you have chosen Radiobutton no.", value

########################################################################
# MAIN PROGRAMME
########################################################################

lArchiveNo = Label(root, text = "Sak nr.: ")
lArchiveNo.grid(row = 0, column = 0)
lArchiveNo.pack(side=LEFT)

eArchiveNo = Entry(root, width = 20)
eArchiveNo.grid(row = 0, column = 1)
eArchiveNo.pack(side=LEFT)

# make the radio button for schools:
rbSchools = Radiobutton(root, name = "rbSchools")
	#rbSchools.bind("<Button-1>", chooseSchool)
	#print str(rbSchools)
for text, value in schools:
	rbSchools = Radiobutton(root, text=text, variable=v, \
		value=value, command=chooseSchool(value))
	rbSchools.grid(row = 1, column = 0)
	rbSchools.pack(anchor=W)

root.mainloop()

1) Is the grid used with the Label and the Entry the same as the grid in
the for-loop? (it doesn't seem so, I want the Entry after the Label in the
1st row and the Radiobutton in the 2nd row, first cell or columnspan = 2).

2) How do I capture the change on the Radiobutton? As it is now, the
programme calls chooseSchool with the right value at creation time, not
when I click the Radiobutton. (Or maybe it is called when I click the
Radiobutton as well, but the event is captured and ignored before it
reaches the Radiobutton???)

Thanks if you can help. Is there any documentation which is more detailed
than Lundh's introduction?

Catalin

-- 

	<<<< ================================== >>>>
	<<     We are what we repeatedly do.      >>
	<<  Excellence, therefore, is not an act  >>
	<<             but a habit.               >>
	<<<< ================================== >>>>




From jerf at jerf.org  Wed Jun 11 17:15:12 2003
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:15:12 GMT
Subject: unittest: Dynamically creating tests
References: <pan.2003.06.11.23.37.20.424513@jerf.org> <EaAFa.1242$zu3.988@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.12.17.14.51.892026@jerf.org>

On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:41:40 +0000, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> Don't use main() which expects to parse your file for class names.
> Instead, substitute this line:
> 
>     unittest.TextTestRunner().run(tests)

Thanks, this is working for me.

As a side-note, don't give your TestCases attribute names starting with
"test", like "testName". ;-) The unittest framework thinks those are
tests.

The tests are now merrily blowing up as expected; TDD can sometimes be
depressing initially ;-)



From alloydflanagan at attbi.com  Fri Jun 13 12:33:25 2003
From: alloydflanagan at attbi.com (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 09:33:25 -0700
Subject: long-term release schedule?
References: <mailman.1054692908.26987.python-list@python.org> <5654fff9.0306112203.6aa1ef99@posting.google.com> <3EE874F2.4042B9E4@engcorp.com> <5654fff9.0306121621.136c8568@posting.google.com> <3EE93161.1DD519B@engcorp.com> <5654fff9.0306130043.5e8e641a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a8b7f07a.0306130833.37909bf9@posting.google.com>

ray at rays-web.com (Ray Smith) wrote in message news:<5654fff9.0306130043.5e8e641a at posting.google.com>...
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3EE93161.1DD519B at engcorp.com>...
> > Ray Smith wrote:
> > > The worrying aspect is that Python (or any development tool a company uses)
> > > becomes unsupported and "no one" is around (paid or unpaid) to continue
> > > development.
> > 

A useful example here is the Ximian product Evolution.  This is a
work-alike to Outlook (hopefully w/o the bugs) developed for Linux
systems.
Ximian actually went bankrupt last year, when Evolution was at about
1.08 (I think).  Even that didn't slow down development much, I just
upgraded to version 1.2.  If Evolution was proprietary it would just
have disappeared...

> I'm about half way through re-writting a small system in Python and estimate 
> it will be about 1/25th the size (line count) of the original and giving more 
> features and "hopefully" less bugs.  
> The old system was designed poorly but that just makes my new Python system 
> look better!!! :)

That's a fairly typical result.  A lot of systems out there are
written in pretty low-level languages (especially C), and python
programs tend to be shorter than even the equivalent Java programs.



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jun  6 17:18:23 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 21:18:23 GMT
Subject: id(a) == id(b) and a is not b --> bug?
References: <mailman.1054855286.16163.python-list@python.org> <m3r867yaxj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bbq5df$9nm$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <bbq68j$93j$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <bbqudr$cfm$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bbr0ev$h3d$0@216.39.172.122>

On 6 Jun 2003 20:43:39 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:51:15 +0000 (UTC), Joshua Marshall <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> wrote:
>
>>Steve McAllister <nosp at m.needed> wrote:
>>>> If any kind of computation is performed in the arguments, the property
>>>> you assume may not hold.
>>
>>> And exactly why is {
>>> 'foo' is 'foo' is 'foo' is 'foo'
>>> } always true?  This is quite surprising compared to {
>>> [] is []
>>> } ...
>>> Why are not new string literals dynamically created?
>>
>>Strings are immutable, so the interpreter is free to use these strings
>>in multiple places.  It's an optimization--it would also be correct if
>>"'foo' is 'foo'" were false.
>For some meaning of "correct." IWT old-style string exceptions would break.
>
I would have thought wrong ;-/ Just tried it. Note to self: test before posting ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From woooee at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 18 15:43:17 2003
From: woooee at yahoo.com (Curly Joe)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:43:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: error exiting mainloop in tkinter
Message-ID: <20030618194317.40129.qmail@web20511.mail.yahoo.com>

I only know simple things about Tkinter, so this may
or may not help.  Try it with a root window, i.e.
root = Tk()
app = Application(root) # Instantiate the application
class
app.master.title("Sample application")
app.mainloop() # Wait for events

I don't know what happens with the statement
app.master.title when master=None
Here's a better example to look at:
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/hello-again.htm
 
> --- In python-list at yahoogroups.com, Bobster
> <nospam at n...> wrote:
> > Hi! 
> > 
> > I have problem exiting python/tkinter application
> (Python 2.2.3 + WinXP)
> > When I run the self.quit procedure I get windows
> error: 
> > 	
> > The instruction at "0x77f7e22a" refernced memory
> at "0x00000028". The 
> > memory could not be "read".
> > 
> > Meanwhile all other actions/procedures using
> tkinter work perfectly.
> > 
> > Bobster
> > 
> > 
> > Below I enclos a piece of code (taken from a
> tkinter book) showing the 
> > problem.
> > 
> > from Tkinter import * # Interface to Tk widgets
> > 
> > class Application(Frame):
> > 	def __init__(self, master=None):
> > 		Frame.__init__(self, master)
> > 		self.grid()
> > 		self.createWidgets()
> > 	def createWidgets(self):
> > 		self.quitButton = Button ( self, text="Quit", 
> > command=self.quit )
> > 		self.quitButton.grid()
> > 
> > app = Application() # Instantiate the application
> class
> > app.master.title("Sample application")
> > app.mainloop() # Wait for events
> > -- 
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jun 17 17:51:02 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:51:02 -0400
Subject: importing specific module
References: <xdLHa.4352$87.3050620@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3EEF8D46.67C85968@engcorp.com>

drs wrote:
> 
> I feel like I have seen this answered here, but I am not finding the
> discussion, so sorry if this is asked a lot.
> 
> I would like to import a specific module which may or may not be on the
> path, and because of concerns about duplicate names, changing network
> drives, and moving files, I would rather not append sys.path.  So, something
> like
> 
> >>> import('C:\\path\\to\\some\\module.py')
> 
> is what I am looking to do. imp.load_module() seems promising, but the
> documentation is going over my head so I am not sure it is appropriate.  Any
> suggestions?  Thanks,

I think you want roughly this.  It may require some tweaks from
others here to make it robust or general enough for your intended use,
but it worked roughly as-is for me.  (Not tested exactly as it appears 
here.)

def import_from_file(name, path):
    import sys, imp
    f = open(path, 'rb')
    try:
        description = ('.py', 'r', imp.PY_SOURCE)
        mod = imp.load_module(name, f, path, description)
        sys.modules[name] = mod
    finally:
        f.close()


-Peter



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun 25 10:47:26 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:47:26 +0200
Subject: Newbie: "compiling" scrips (?)
In-Reply-To: <M4gKa.319364$3n5.125426@news2.central.cox.net>
References: <bdbrv2$9un$02$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1056537281.12123.python-list@python.org> <bdc160$n2i$01$1@news.t-online.com> <M4gKa.319364$3n5.125426@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <20030625144726.GA3804@nl.linux.org>

Steve Holden wrote:
> although
> variuos techniques have been used to improve eventual execution efficiency
> in all three languages. Look for "psyco" and "pypy" in Google for the latest
> and most promising approaches int he Python world.

I don't understand how pypy can improve performance. Am I correct that pypy
is an effort to implement Python as much as possible in Python? And am I
correct that implementing a module in C will probably speed it up? Combining
these two, wouldn't implementing Python in Python slow things down? If so,
what is the advantage of pypy?

I don't want to clutter pypy-dev with these questions, because they must
be very trivial and Pypy-people probably have better things to do than
answering trivial questions ;)

> > I must admit, the only interpreted language I know is old Qbasic from
> > the 'good old (Dos) times' ;-)
> >
> Well, you know the principles, then.

When I started with Python, I did not know the difference between a language
an IDE, a compiler and an interpreter; you can search Google and look at my
first posts here to check I'm right :)

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
142. If a woman quarrel with her husband, and say: "You are not
congenial to me," the reasons for her prejudice must be presented. If she
is guiltless, and there is no fault on her part, but he leaves and
neglects her, then no guilt attaches to this woman, she shall take her
dowry and go back to her father's house.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Jun 25 20:30:21 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:30:21 +1000
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE797832@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Gerrit Holl [mailto:gerrit at nl.linux.org]
> 
> Another way, which has not yet been mentioned but which I like much,
> is the cStringIO module. You can write to a string as if it is a
> file:
> 
>   0 >>> import cStringIO
>   1 >>> mystr = cStringIO.StringIO()
>   2 >>> mystr.write("<html")
>   3 >>> mystr.write("<body>")
>   4 >>> mystr.write("<h1>Header</h1>")
>   5 >>> mystr.write("<p>Hello, world!</p>")
>   6 >>> mystr.write("</body></html>")
>  10 >>> mystr.getvalue()
> '<html<body><h1>Header</h1><p>Hello, world!</p></body></html>'
> 
> The cStringIO module is documented at:
> 
> http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-StringIO.html
> 
> cStringIO is a faster C implementation with the same API.

Indeed, the following might make things nice and easy for you ...

import cStringIO as StringIO

# Subclass of str so that it can be used nearly anywhere that requires a real
# string.

class MutableString (str):

    def __init__ (self, s=""):
        super(MutableString, self).__init__()
        self.data = StringIO.StringIO()
        self.data.write(s)

    def __add__(self, s):
        m = MutableString(self.data.getvalue())
        m.data.write(s)
        return m

    def __iadd__(self, s):
        self.data.write(s)
        return self

    def __str__(self):
        return self.data.getvalue()

    def __repr__(self):
        return repr(str(self))

s = MutableString("Hello,")
s += " world!"
print s
print repr(s)




From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jun 16 11:07:06 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:07:06 +0200
Subject: Python in Central Florida
In-Reply-To: <%XkHa.50669$Io.4784551@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <%XkHa.50669$Io.4784551@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3EEDDD1A.3030306@ghaering.de>

Michael Nescio wrote:
> I've been tryin to learn python for the last couple years but I'm having
> trouble with grasping the concept. I am the kinda of person that needs a
> mentor to learn, [...]

Not what you were asking for, but if nothing better comes up, there is 
still the python-tutor list where experienced Programmers help Python 
newbies:

http://python.org/psa/MailingLists.html#tutor

-- Gerhard




From skip at pobox.com  Sat Jun 14 21:33:02 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 20:33:02 -0500
Subject: comprehending comprehensions
In-Reply-To: <3EEBA5C9.3090200@wanadoo.es>
References: <roy-9EE81E.13521714062003@reader1.panix.com>
        <3EEBA5C9.3090200@wanadoo.es>
Message-ID: <16107.52430.411544.56767@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    maurix> def qsort(list) :
    maurix>     if len(list)<=1 : return list
    maurix>     x,xs=list[0],list[1:]
    maurix>     elts_lt_x=[y for y in xs if y < x]
    maurix>     elts_greq_x=[y for y in xs if y >= x]
    maurix>     return qsort(elts_lt_x)+[x]+qsort(elts_greq_x)

    maurix> 6 lines vs 5 lines, not bad!
    maurix> Someting can do it better??

The temporary list comprehensions aren't really needed:

def qsort(lst):
    if len(lst) <= 1: return lst
    x, xs = lst[0], lst[1:]
    return (qsort([i for i in xs if i<x]) + [x] +
            qsort([i for i in xs if i>=x])

and if you're willing to forego a little bit of white space:

def qs(lst):
    if len(lst) <= 1: return lst
    x, y = lst[0], lst[1:]
    return qs([i for i in y if i<x])+[x]+qs([i for i in y if i>=x])

Eliminating x and y then crushing a bit more white space:

def qs(l):
 if len(l) <= 1: return l
 return qs([i for i in l[1:]if i<l[0]])+l[:1]+qs([i for i in l[1:]if i>=l[0]])

Finally, the ultimate abuse:

def qs(l):
 return len(l) > 1 and (qs([i for i in l[1:]if i<l[0]])+l[:1]+qs([i for i in l[1:]if i>=l[0]])) or l

Of course, these are all just variations on the theme you posted.

>>> def qs(l):
...  return len(l) > 1 and (qs([i for i in l[1:]if i<l[0]])+l[:1]+qs([i for i in l[1:]if i>=l[0]])) or l
... 
>>> import random
>>> import string
>>> l = list(string.letters)
>>> random.shuffle(l)
>>> "".join(l)
'CIaSFXhqQYuvDPsxVNUbepnjHmOiMdBkoRWtZwcKGzAgErfJLylT'
>>> "".join(qs(l))
'ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'

Skip




From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Thu Jun  5 18:17:53 2003
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:17:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Efficient data flow between orthogonal C extensions?
References: <slrnbdsl66.21h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no> <87el29rpmv.fsf@smtp.gsi.de> <slrnbdubsl.32h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>  <87znkwwmbg.fsf@smtp.gsi.de>  <slrnbdvdlb.dfi.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <slrnbdvgch.la4.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <slrnbdvdlb.dfi.mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no>, Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
>In article <87znkwwmbg.fsf at smtp.gsi.de>, Pierre Schnizer wrote:
>[snip]
>>Perhaps I should have been more explicit. If I get your viewpoint correctly, I
>>can answer: SWIG generally can do the job you described above. 

I have now written a small test, but can't make this work. (For one
thing, it seems that SWIG has started to create .py-wrappers for the c
modules, and that I have to give a _foo name rather than a foo name to
distutils etc. Hm. Oh, well.)

I've written the function

  void callback(char *);

in one module and the function

  void caller(void (*callback)(char *));

in another. When I swig/compile these, import them, and try to pass
callback as a parameter to caller, I get the following error:

  TypeError: Type error. Expected _p_f_p_char__void

What am I doing wrong?

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland                "In this house we obey the laws of
http://hetland.org                 thermodynamics!"    Homer Simpson



From news at exultants.org  Sat Jun 21 02:31:54 2003
From: news at exultants.org (Van Gale)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 06:31:54 GMT
Subject: shebang strange thing...
In-Reply-To: <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com>
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Van Gale wrote:
> 
>>There's a very subtle bug (feature?) in bash (and maybe other shells?)
>>that will generate this error if the line is terminated with a CR/LF
>>pair instead of just a linefeed.
> 
> 
> Yes, it's common to other shells.  It's not a feature, but it's not a
> "bug" per se -- using CR LF terminated text files on Unix is operator
> error.

Well guess what, it happens.  It even happens when the "operator" is 
aware of the problem.  So lets not call it a bug, and instead call it 
poor programming because the error message is not only incorrect, but 
will also waste a fair amount of time of someone trying to debug the 
problem because it points them in the wrong direction.




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun  4 14:39:25 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:39:25 +0200
Subject: a wierd parameter passing behavior
In-Reply-To: <20030604134441.GA2357@nl.linux.org>
References: <5ca99eab.0306040529.2d6f85@posting.google.com> <20030604134441.GA2357@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <20030604183925.GC17862@nl.linux.org>

Gerrit Holl schreef op woensdag  4 juni om 15:46:38 +0000:
> Torvo Sollazzo schreef op woensdag  4 juni om 15:31:51 +0000:
> > Why p1() is different from p()?
> 
> p1 does not change l, p does. p1 creates a new l in it's own local
> namespace, while p updates l: += equals .append(). This is documented
> in the language reference:

Correction: .append() should be .extend().

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
19. If he hold the slaves in his house, and they are caught there, he
shall be put to death.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From beliavsky at aol.com  Tue Jun 17 08:36:55 2003
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 05:36:55 -0700
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0306170436.2b31f9e@posting.google.com>

David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote in message news:<uwufmko7g.fsf at boost-consulting.com>...

SNIP

> I find that static typing makes a big difference for two things:
> 
>   1. Readability.  It really helps to have names introduced with a
>      type or a type constraint which expresses what kind of thing they
>      are.  This is especially true when I am coming back to code after
>      a long time or reading someone else's work.  Attaching that
>      information to the name directly is odious, though, and leads to
>      abominations like hungarian notation.

I strongly agree with this. For numerical work, especially numerical
linear algebra, having the compiler check types and the # of
dimensions can detect many errors.

The beginning of the following Fortran 95 subroutine, for example,
provides useful information both to the compiler and to a programmer
trying to understand what it does:

subroutine solve_lsq_svd_rmse(aa,bb,xx,rmse,ierr)
! solve a set of least-squares linear equations and compute the rmse
real     , intent(in)   :: aa(:,:) ! matrix of independent variables
real     , intent(in)   :: bb(:)   ! vector of dependent variable
real     , intent(out)  :: xx(:)   ! solution of least-squares problem
real     , intent(out)  :: rmse    ! rmse of regression
integer  , intent(out)  :: ierr    ! error flag

In Python, to ensure that aa is a 2-D array and that bb and xx are 1-D
arrays, you need to write some checking code, which will not be as
clear as the above declarations IMO. Even if you do this, the errors
will be caught at run time, not compile time.

(Regardless of the language, you need to check that the # of rows in
aa equals the # of elements in bb. This usually must be done at run
time.)



From dwblas at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  4 15:59:44 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (DavidW Blaschke)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:59:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: a wierd parameter passing behavior
Message-ID: <20030604195944.2908.qmail@web21604.mail.yahoo.com>

It's not good practice to use the letters "l", "o",
or "i" as variable names as they look too much like
numbers and hence the code is hard to read.  Just some
friendly advice.

D.W.

> --- In python-list at yahoogroups.com, mpradella at y...
> (Torvo Sollazzo) 
> wrote:
> > Hi!
> > 
> > I found a strange parameter passing behavior in
> Python (v. 2.2.2).
> > Look at this piece of code:
> > def p(l) :
> >     l += [3]
> >     l[0] = 2
> > 
> > def p1(l) :
> >     l = l + [3]
> >     l[0] = 2
> > 
> > def f() :
> >     l = [1]
> >     p(l)
> >     print l
> >     l = [1]
> >     p1(l)
> >     print l
> > 
> > If I call f(), I obtain the following results:
> > [2,3]
> > [1]
> > Why p1() is different from p()? The list l should
> be passed by
> > reference in both cases, while it seems that "l =
> l + [3]" creates a
> > new local variable, also called l.
> > 
> > Any idea?
> > Many thanks,
> > TS
> > -- 
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com




From jan at muskelfisch.com  Wed Jun 25 14:59:47 2003
From: jan at muskelfisch.com (Jan Boelsche)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 11:59:47 -0700
Subject: PyObject_GetIter resets iteration?
Message-ID: <782fad98.0306251059.1cb60711@posting.google.com>

A Question about the C API

When PyObject_GetIter(PyObject *o) returns o itself, becuase it is
already an iterator, does it reset the iteration too?
Or does it never have an effect on the iteration's state?

Thanks,
  jan



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun 16 13:06:42 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:06:42 -0600
Subject: subclassing unittest.TestCase?
In-Reply-To: <s8sGa.42962$rO.4224816@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>; from ccurvey@earthlink.net on Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 10:22:16PM +0000
References: <s8sGa.42962$rO.4224816@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20030616110642.B820@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Chris Curvey:
> I'm trying to subclass unittest.TestCase and add to the constructor. 
  [...]

Fernando is of course right that the unittest framework creates
TestCases with arguments, so you'll need to pass them through.

But I do wonder why you want to add things to the constructor.
Normally using setUp() is be more appropriate.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                   w_w
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      ,-= U
                                                               1 1




From rochkind at basepath.com  Sat Jun 21 22:09:22 2003
From: rochkind at basepath.com (Marc Rochkind)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:09:22 -0600
Subject: Choosing between two Jython books...
References: <oprq494znqojfyi9@den.news.speakeasy.net> <vfa25gd6ecmve6@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <oprq5b9wvjojfyi9@den.news.speakeasy.net>

On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 01:38:56 -0000, Cameron Laird <claird at lairds.com> 
wrote:


[snip]

> Does <URL: http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=7822/ur0303f/ > help?

Yes! It helps a lot... thanks!

--Marc





From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jun 24 23:11:59 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:11:59 -0500
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
In-Reply-To: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com> (John Fitzsimons's
 message of "Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:52:18 +1000")
References: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m2fzlyonpc.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "John" == John Fitzsimons <xpm4senn001 at sneakemail.com> writes:


    John> (B) I am wanting to sort words (or is that strings ?) into a
    John> list from a clipboard and/or file input and/or....

    John> (C) To sort out the list of "unique" words/strings.

The classic idiom for getting a unique list is to use a dictionary
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52560.

If you have enough memory to do everything in memory, the following
should be quote efficient

  allWords = file('myfile.dat').read().split()
  uwords = dict([(w,1) for w in allWords]).keys()
  uwords.sort()
  print uwords

By using list comprehensions to build the dict, as above, you avoid
some of the overhead of a manual loop approach.  

Although this approach conserves speed over memory, in my own
experience processing text files, it is the way to go.  Very large
text files (you mentioned 50MB) are extremely rare.  For example, the
entire King James bible, including html markup, is < 5MB.  The
complete works of Shakespeare, including html markup, are < 10MB.  So
I think it would be unusual for you to need to process a single text
file larger that 10MB.  Unless you have a specific example where you
need to process such extremely large files, I recommend doing as much
as possible in memory.

John Hunter 





From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Wed Jun  4 07:12:49 2003
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:12:49 GMT
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EDDD2E1.DC2E8272@mega-nerd.com>

Pupppy Wizzard wrote:
> 
> Hi. I am an old school programmer looking to modernize my skill set. I
> want to focus on one new language. Should I choose:
> 
> VB
> VB.net
> C#
> C++
> Python

Thats the one! Forget the rest.


Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Windows NT : An evolutionary dead end.



From news at manuelmgarcia.com  Fri Jun 13 18:52:31 2003
From: news at manuelmgarcia.com (Manuel Garcia)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:52:31 GMT
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com> <84fc4588.0306112339.10a4012b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055460443.2394.python-list@python.org> <dnjkevkeo3evk31jdnmtcclmth8g9otmh9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <21lkevg0u2g2jg8sre6k8rgkn2507ocgtp@4ax.com>

bah, posted the slower one (with one less 'lambda').  Here is the
faster one, eschewing x**2:

print (lambda p:p[0]+'.'+p[1:])(
    str((lambda(x,y,t,a):(2L*x*x)//a)(
        (lambda F:(lambda S:reduce(
            lambda(x,y,t,a),_:
            (lambda x1,y1:(x1,y1,2L*t,
                (a-(t*(x1*x1-y1*y1))//F)))(
                    (x+y)//2L,S((x*y)//F)),
            [0]*13,(F,(F*F)//S(2L*F),2L,F//2L)))(
                lambda n:reduce(lambda x,_:(
                    x-x//2L+(n*F)//(2L*x)),[0]*15,
                n//2L)))(10L**(5010))))[:5000])

Manuel



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sun Jun 22 16:07:18 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 22 Jun 2003 13:07:18 -0700
Subject: Find a substring withing a string...
References: <MPG.195db98e90b83bb49899fe@netnews.attbi.com> <MPG.195dc173b6aa75c2989a00@netnews.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306221207.777db197@posting.google.com>

FooBar <abc at attbi.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.195dc173b6aa75c2989a00 at netnews.attbi.com>...
> 
> Ah I just discovered that this box has an older Python on it.  

Too bad you don't have Python 2.3 installed ...

>>> 'hello' in 'hello,world'
True

             Michele



From frank at chagford.com  Sun Jun 15 06:46:26 2003
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 03:46:26 -0700
Subject: MSW crash with <refcnt 0 at ...>
References: <246a4e07.0306120739.74dd977a@posting.google.com> <5JhGa.3746$GU5.51113@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <246a4e07.0306140200.326098b@posting.google.com> <31QGa.5483$GU5.83649@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <246a4e07.0306150246.63c2d8da@posting.google.com>

Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message news:<31QGa.5483$GU5.83649 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> Unfortunately, win32all-150 has that bug already applied. 
> Unfortunately, I am a little stuck on what to do, as I don't have a 
> database to test against.  Anyone listenening who has a debug build of 
> win32all and an ODBC database to connect to should be able to provide me 
> with alot more info (or even just a database I can connect to remotely).
> 
> Could you please open a bug in the pywin32 project at sourceforge?
> 
> Mark.
> 

BTW, there is no urgency on my part for a fix. In my live application,
I have so many checks before issuing the SQL command that the chances
of its failing are minimal. I only discovered the bug by simulating an
error to see what would happen. So long as it is on the "to do" list
and gets fixed some time, that is fine with me.

Thanks again for the responses, Mark.

Frank



From Mathieu.Malaterre at creatis.insa-lyon.fr  Wed Jun 11 14:20:29 2003
From: Mathieu.Malaterre at creatis.insa-lyon.fr (Mathieu Malaterre)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:20:29 +0200
Subject: list.remove(): bug ??
In-Reply-To: <3ee771f9$0$45171$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>
References: <bc7ql8$72a$1@demo2.univ-lyon1.fr> <3ee771f9$0$45171$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>
Message-ID: <3EE772ED.9080909@creatis.insa-lyon.fr>

Andrew Wilkinson wrote:
> Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi all,
>>
>>here is a very simple script:
>>
>>liste = ['foo1' , 'foo2', 'foo3', 'foo4', 'foo5' ]
>>for i in liste:
>>   if i == 'foo2':
>>     liste.remove( i )
>>   else:
>>     print i
>>
>>
>>But the result is:
>>
>>foo1
>>foo4
>>foo5
>>
>>How should I do to still print 'foo3' ??
>>
>>thanks a lot,
>>mathieu
> 
> 
> The problem is that you're modifying the list that you're iterating over.
> The simplest method to correct this is to take a copy of the list and
> iterate over it instead of the actual list.
> 
> liste = ['foo1' , 'foo2', 'foo3', 'foo4', 'foo5' ]
> for i in liste[:]:
>   if i == 'foo2':
>     liste.remove( i )
>   else:
>     print i
> 
> The above code works as expected. I don't see this as a bug, although its
> perhaps not as intuitive as you would expect from Python.
> 
> Hope this help,
> Andrew Wilkinson

Very nice indeed, works as expected, that's all I needed !

thanks,
mathieu




From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Thu Jun  5 10:31:00 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:31:00 -0500 
Subject: Changing python process name (or argv[0])
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304FC43C4@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Daniel Fackrell 
> [mailto:newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:15 AM
> 
> Hrm... maybe I'm just naive on this point, but it seems to me 
> that having python programs show up by name is ps, top, etc.
> would be a nice benefit, especially where many different python
> processes might be running simultaneously.  I'd even consider
> that such should be the default.  I for one would much rather
> see ChatServer.py, intermud.py, and python listed by ps (for
> a chat server, intermud daemon, and interactive python shell,
> respectively), than python, python, and python.  Should this 
> really require finding, downloading, and installing a
> non-standard module?
>

The best possible way to convince Guido of including this
feature is not through rationalization, but via a patch
which implements the desired behaviour.

Implement your patch against the current CVS version of python,
make it "correct" in that it does the "right thing" depending
on the platform being compiled on, even disabling the feature
when it's not available.

Create a builtin function in module "os" or "sys" which
uses this new functionality --if available--, and raises
an exception if not.

Then, write one --or several-- use cases for this new feature;
and then, only then, post a message to python-dev, showing
that you've already done all the homework.  That they (python
core developers) don't have to do the work of researching
and implementing this feature might make all the difference.

Good luck.

-gca

--
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From other at cazabon.com  Tue Jun 17 01:51:16 2003
From: other at cazabon.com (Kevin)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 05:51:16 GMT
Subject: passing a C struct to Python and back
Message-ID: <o%xHa.213380$3C2.6469072@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>

In a Python extension module, I have a struct that I need to pass to Python,
then back into the extension module later for use.  Python doesn't need to
do anything with the struct in the meantime though.

I'm trying to do it using a CObject through the following, but
PyCObject_AsVoidPtr() returns a void*, not a struct...

Is there an easy way to do this?  Creating a new Python type seems like a
big pain in the butt for something as "simple" as this.

Sample code:

// section that creates the struct, called theProcs
return Py_BuildValue("isO", 0, "Library loaded successfully.",
PyCObject_FromVoidPtr(&theProcs, KPDCLoader_Unload));
}

// section that gets the struct back as a CObject... doesn't work of course
static PyObject *
findCameras(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
  void *pyTheProcs;
 // Structure of SDK funtion entry points
 KPDCProcs theProcs;

 // Initialize data structures
 memset(&theProcs, 0, sizeof( theProcs ) );

  if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O", &pyTheProcs)) {
   return Py_BuildValue("iss", -1, "ERROR: could not parse the KPDCProcs
object from the argument tuple.", "");
  }

  theProcs = (KPDCProcs) PyCObject_AsVoidPtr(pyTheProcs);
// doesn't work, can't cast a void* to a struct


}





From henk at entree.nl  Sun Jun 15 12:13:11 2003
From: henk at entree.nl (Henk Punt)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 09:13:11 -0700
Subject: pythonCOM with Flash
References: <RvPFa.37$zx6.1430@news.optus.net.au> <GV%Fa.2949$GU5.41737@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <TVfGa.76$zx6.3873@news.optus.net.au> <xEhGa.3736$GU5.50995@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <3ee9bfff$0$8301$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <mailman.1055513666.7326.python-list@python.org> <87adckfz28.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1055616628.20982.python-list@python.org> <vfv8e4t2.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <5a6dd3ff.0306150813.4361f9f4@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I've created a sample flash player in Venster, embedding the Flash control.
it can be found in the source distribution of Venster @ venster.sourceforge.net
in the 'test' directory.

Grtz,

Henk.



From maxm at mxm.dk  Sun Jun  8 09:25:35 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 15:25:35 +0200
Subject: Python-ASP
In-Reply-To: <YrxEa.108356$h42.12516@twister.nyc.rr.com>
References: <YrxEa.108356$h42.12516@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3EE3394F.1050807@mxm.dk>

Eugene C. wrote:
> Does anyone here use Python with ASP? If yes, then please tell me if you
> have experienced the problem below, and what, if any, were your solutions.

You are probably not using the latest version of Win32. There was a 
problem like that in earlier versions.

-- 

hilsen/regards Max M Rasmussen, Denmark

http://www.futureport.dk/
Fremtiden, videnskab, skeptiscisme og transhumanisme




From Juha.Autero at iki.fi  Thu Jun  5 17:46:29 2003
From: Juha.Autero at iki.fi (Juha Autero)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 00:46:29 +0300
Subject: Changing python process name (or argv[0])
References: <1054739086.3ede0a8ec5f95@mcherm.com> <mailman.1054768569.11849.python-list@python.org>
 <3edf5063$1_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>
Message-ID: <87d6hsgpu2.fsf@jautero.no-ip.org>

"Daniel Fackrell" <newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com> writes:

> Hrm... maybe I'm just naive on this point, but it seems to me that having
> python programs show up by name is ps, top, etc. would be a nice benefit,
> especially where many different python processes might be running
> simultaneously.  I'd even consider that such should be the default. 

There is a rather standard way to achieve that in UN*X. Make the file
executable and use shebang to specify python interpreter:

$ cat demo.py
#!/usr/bin/python
import time
print "Start of program"
time.sleep(120) # Give us time to check the process
print "End of program"
$ chmod u+x demo.py
$ ./demo.py &
[1] 6767
$ Start of program

$ ps
  PID TTY          TIME CMD
 6762 pts/2    00:00:00 bash
 6767 pts/2    00:00:00 demo.py
 6768 pts/2    00:00:00 ps
$ End of program

[1]+  Done                    ./demo.py
$ 

It's not portable to other operating systems, but neither is argv
mugging. 

-- 
Juha Autero
http://www.iki.fi/jautero/
Eschew obscurity!





From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Jun 10 10:30:02 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:30:02 -0700
Subject: PEP-317
Message-ID: <1055255402.3ee5eb6ae09ee@mcherm.com>

Guido writes:
> There seem to be lots of different things in that PEP (I've got no
> time to read it in full).

Too bad... it's well written.

> - deprecating string exceptions: definitely
> 
> - making all exceptions derive from Exception: most probably

Not actually part of this PEP... the author is going for the
minimal PEP possible. But maybe it should be added.

> - making Exception a new-style class: eventually

Not really possible without this PEP.

Basically, the PEP is all about the migration plan, without
dealing much with the end point. It says "we all know string
exceptions should go. Let's also say that eventually we'll
use new-style classes, and maybe pack some extra functionality
into the Exception class. Let's start the deprecation and
warnings now." And it carefully considers all the kinds of code
breakage and how to handle it.

> But I'm not at all happy with the proposed deprecation of
> 
>   raise Class
> 
> and
> 
>   raise Class, arguments
> 
> in favor of
> 
>   raise Class()
> 
> and
> 
>   raise Class(arguments)
> 
> I don't see how this change is necessary in order to get any of the
> other benefits.

(1) There should be only one (preferably obvious) way to do it.
(2) If I write "raise x" is that an example of "raise Class", or
    of "raise instance"? With old-style exceptions, you have to
    examine the type of x to figure out what to do. With new-style
    exceptions, even that wouldn't do.
(3) The "raise Class" form has a spurious similarity with the
    except clause:
        try:
            raise MyError, raised
        except MyError, caught:
            pass
    Looks like "raised" is the same object as "caught". But it's
    not.
(4) There's no benefit to having two syntaxes. See (1).


> I also don't understand the commotion over deferred exception
> instantiation, since it doesn't happen except for exceptions
> raised from C code.

Ignore it... it's a red herring. The whole deferred exception thing
is just an implementation detail at the C level.

-- Michael Chermside





From yweng at cs.uoregon.edu  Thu Jun 12 05:14:17 2003
From: yweng at cs.uoregon.edu (Yan Weng)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 02:14:17 -0700
Subject: Why not BOA GUI builder?
References: <KgQFa.769$nX2.90862759@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> <0IQFa.650049$Si4.591429@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <bc9gr6$fq0$1@pith.uoregon.edu>

Yes, that's a great IDE. it will take about 40 M memory.
Comparing 60M for Eclipse and 70M for JBuilder. We can also call it a
compact IDE. :)

- Yan

"Bryan" <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0IQFa.650049$Si4.591429 at rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> i used boa recently and i was very impressed.  IMO, i generates very
> readable code and similar to what i would have done anyways. (for me it
was
> the python version of jbuilder). i modified "two-way" code in the gui and
in
> the dialog/property editor without a problem.  for me, i found that
checking
> it out from cvs was better than the pre-zipped versions ready to download.
> i could also switch and code/debug from komodo if i wanted to, so boa
didn't
> force me into some funky model or add proprietary markings in the file
like
> some gui systems do.    the one negative for me was figuring out how to
> customize some options that weren't obvious, but a quick question to the
> mailing list solved that quickly.
>
> bryan






From mgerrans at mindspring.com  Tue Jun 17 02:47:02 2003
From: mgerrans at mindspring.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:47:02 -0700
Subject: Looking for Info on installing Python and wxPython on a disk.
References: <veta0f2uce3ide@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bcmdjt$he$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>

"Pat" wrote:
>... He wants to know if there is a way to install python,
> wxpython and another program on a cd and be able to run it from a windows
os
> machine.

This is entirely possible.   I've done this in two ways with Python + Win32
extensions, but not with wxPython (I don't see any reason why that would be
undoable, though).   One was a bootable CD with Windows PE, which is a form
of Windows XP used in manufacturing environment.   This is probably not what
you are after (and you probably can't get access to Windows PE, anyhow,
unless you are an OEM).    This is handy for booting on systems that may or
may not have partitioned disks, etc.

The second way is to set up a CD with a script (or even an autorun.inf, if
you want to be fancier) that can be used from the installed OS.   This CD
does *not* install Python, but just sets up some environment variables, like
the Path, PythonPath and PythonCaseOk, so that Python can easily run from
it.   The basic idea is to install Python, wxPython and whatever else you
like to disk, then copy those directories in the same form to a CD.    You
could export the python registry entries, but I'm not sure you can import
them on the library machine (that is probably restricted as well) and you
can get by without those.   The PythonCaseOk environement variable (Run
"Python -h" for Python's command-line syntax) can be important when running
from CD because file names can be all upper case; setting this variable will
allow you to import modules without regard to their file name's case.
Another important thing is to copy python22.dll (or whatever version of
Python you are using) from c:\windows\system32 to the Python directory on
the CD and add that to the path when you use the CD.    To be really
thorough, you can use a tool called InControl (I think it can be found on
the shareware download sites) which will monitor an install (directory,
filea and registry changes) and ensure that you have all the necessary
elements on your CD.

> Neither of us are very good programmers, still learning the basics of
python
> myself and he wants to start.

Hmm... That may make it tougher, particularly if you don't have a lot of
administration/shell type experience.   Maybe you can find someone to help.

> If any one can point me to the site, I would be very grateful.

Or maybe this will pan out and you'll find someone who has packaged up a an
ISO that takes care of all this.





From chezdique at yahoo.com  Sun Jun  8 11:16:58 2003
From: chezdique at yahoo.com (dique)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 08:16:58 -0700
Subject: Excuting scripts question
References: <bbtq4o$d718f$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE26F88.C86E88BB@alcyone.com> <bbu0bo$df2cq$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE28A13.65FD29DD@engcorp.com> <bbu7gc$ddp76$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <c2c98495.0306080116.40ae59fa@posting.google.com> <bbv1n8$dljr4$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <c2c98495.0306080716.5dcd4fdb@posting.google.com>

Perhaps it's got something to do with the permission settings. You may
try setting the Execute Permissions to 'Scripts and Executables'.

"Ken" <ken at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bbv1n8$dljr4$1 at ID-49758.news.dfncis.de>...
> "dique" <chezdique at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c2c98495.0306080116.40ae59fa at posting.google.com...
> > Here is a helpful link on Setting up Python for CGI on IIS.
> > http://www.e-coli.net/pyiis.html
> >
> > From the article, it seems that you should put C:\Python22\python.exe
> > -u %s %s instead. (Perhaps C:\Python22\python.exe -u "%s" "%s" is
> > safer, with the quotes on.)
> >
> 
> I followed it and it loaded. But instead of executing the script, it is
> displaying as a text. Any ideas how to fix it?
> 
> Thanks



From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Wed Jun 25 14:01:11 2003
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:01:11 +0200
Subject: multi-platform python app on cd
In-Reply-To: <87he6fb4a5.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <bd7d1g$inm$1@swifty.westend.com> <87he6fb4a5.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bdcnvg$dd8$1@swifty.westend.com>

John J. Lee wrote:
> Apologies in advance for stating what's probably obvious to you, but:
> If it has to be cross-platform, I'm sure many of the issues are
> independent of Python, so you'll probably want to try googling for
> that & then (when you've got your head around the issues), maybe
> posting to other groups / lists.

John,

I have googled this topic before posting and found only some hints
to py2exe that I knew already. As far as Linux/UNIX is concerned I'm
pretty sure that it is possible, perhaps by compiling the executable
with relative default path settings (?) and providing some modules.
The unknown part is Mac. I subscribed to the  pythonmac-sig@ mailing
list but either I did something wrong or the list is dead.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jun 10 10:10:51 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 10:10:51 -0400
Subject: Criteria for which Batteries are Included ?
References: <3ee5b419$0$140$e4fe514c@dreader5.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <bc4otb$ph1$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3ee5b419$0$140$e4fe514c at dreader5.news.xs4all.nl>,
Iwan van der Kleyn  <null at null.com> wrote:
>
>"Batteries Included" is a well-published motto of Python.  And it's 
>true, more modules than I would ever need are included in the base 
>distribution.  However, I do miss relational database access. Especially 
>the intefaces with MySQL and PostgeSQL. And it would be nice to have 
>modules which interface with mature, and popular (common) protocols as 
>SOAP and Jabber.  Of course, if everyone's favourite module would be 
>included, then I suppose the Python distribution wold be unmaintainable. 
>  So what are the criteria for the inclusion of a module in Python? User 
>support? Availability on a speciifc number of platforms?

The two primary criteria for including a module as standard are
widespread applicability and likelihood of future support.  The
PythonLabs team has limited time to maintain modules outside their
expertise, so any new module either needs little ongoing maintenance
(such as the new config parser module in 2.3) or a guarantee of
volunteer maintenance time.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From prell at cfl.rr.com  Thu Jun 12 16:06:47 2003
From: prell at cfl.rr.com (Sean Gilbertson)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:06:47 -0400
Subject: Licenses
Message-ID: <6585FEC7-9D11-11D7-A6AA-000393AF1550@cfl.rr.com>

Hello all,

	I'm getting ready to release an alpha version of an application, and 
I'm looking at licenses to attach to it.  Since the Python code is 
plain as day, for now I would like some sort of license that allows the 
user access to the code, but not to modify or distribute it.  I 
certainly appreciate the GPL, and maybe I'll use it for this project 
later on, but for now I want some freedom before I commit all-the-way 
to an "open source" license like the GPL.  I have looked on Google and 
on some pages such as the OSI's homepage, but no luck so far.  I am 
open to persuasive arguments either way, but I would also like examples 
of the sort of license I mentioned.

Thank you,
	Sean





From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Jun 19 03:28:43 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:28:43 GMT
Subject: Alternatives to Python ?
References: <3EF18A03.3050706@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <LCdIa.110673$pR3.2429365@news1.tin.it>

Gary Duncan wrote:


> There's been occasional not-unfavourable comments in this news-group
> about the pros-and-cons of other so-called "high-level-languages" like
> Ruby, and Haskell , and others too.
> 
> I can't afford to buy more than one such book from the list of HLLs;
> so what would you suggest ?

Ruby and Python occupy pretty much the same technical niche; exposure
to Ruby would not significantly broaden your horizons wrt exposure to
Python.  Haskell occupies a completely different niche, and is pretty
much guaranteed to be very horizon-broadening.  The most popular book
on Haskell is probably Thompson's "Haskell: The Craft of Functional
Programming", Addison-Wesley.  Personally, I've enjoyed the somewhat
idiosyncratic approach in Hudak's "The Haskell School of Expression"
(Cambridge University Press), but I've heard from some that do not
consider it a good first book on Haskell.


Alex




From ntreloar at avaquest.com  Sat Jun 21 20:30:29 2003
From: ntreloar at avaquest.com (Nathan Treloar)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 17:30:29 -0700
Subject: Steaming PDF from Python Script to IE
Message-ID: <4b46139c.0306211630.1aeb3ffa@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to stream PDF content to a browser client via a python CGI
script using:

    out = open("test.pdf", "rb").read()
    print 'Content-type: application/pdf\n\n'
    print out

However, IE is displaying the text and not launching Acrobat. If I
remove one '\n' on the Content-type header Acrobat is launched but is
not displaying the content. What am I missing? I've tried restarting
IE, flushing the cache, etc..

(You probably want to know why I don't just send a link to the file.
This is just a test, in my actual app the PDF content is coming from
another service as a byte stream.)

Thanks in advance.



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sat Jun 21 21:21:29 2003
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:21:29 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Python 2.2.3 test_re.py fails with coredump on FreeBSD 5.0,
 fails also on FreeBSD4.8
In-Reply-To: <2251d03c.0306211009.2596e9fd@posting.google.com>
References: <2251d03c.0306211009.2596e9fd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030622111456.V48767@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Sun, 21 Jun 2003, PieterB wrote:

> I had a little look at testing Python 2.2.3 under FreeBSD and
> 5.0. When I use './configure ; make ; make test' Lib/test/test_re.py
> gives a Signal 10 (coredump) on FreeBSD5.

{...}

> On FreeBSD 4.8 this test also fails, but doesn't core dump:

It coredumps on 4.8 for me...

> Can anybody, give me a clue:
> a) if this is caused by a FreeBSD5.0 issue, or by Python.
>    Can somebody test this on FreeBSD 5.1 or FreeBSD5-CVS?
> b) how can I fix the coredump on FreeBSD 5.0?
> c) what should be done to fix the test on FreeBSD 4.8?

Take Martin's advice.  If you want to know more, review SF #740234.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia




From nav at adams.patriot.net  Mon Jun 16 15:31:17 2003
From: nav at adams.patriot.net (Nick Vargish)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 15:31:17 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <yyyy901g6pm.fsf@adams.patriot.net>

Tim Rowe <tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk> writes:

> "The choice between compile time testing and run-time testing is the
> choice between the programmer finding the bugs and the customer
> finding the bugs".

Yeah... Right.

I worked for a software house that coded almost exclusively in C and
C++, and our customers were at least as good as the developers and QA
department at finding bugs.

Maybe we just had a more "clever" class of customer than you?

Nick

-- 
# sigmask.py  ||  version 0.2  ||  2003-01-07  ||  Feed this to your Python.
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAqbusjpu/ofu?','')




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jun 20 17:47:01 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:47:01 -0400
Subject: newbie: good reasons for learning Python?
References: <3ef37a28$0$306$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3EF380D5.EC9A501A@engcorp.com>

somaBoyMX wrote:
> 
> I've been checking out some Python tutorials on the web, it looks cool
> enough. I'm already fairly good at JavaScript, ActionScript and PHP and now
> I'd like to tackle Python. However, I still need to be convinced before I
> decide to dedicate my precious free time to this. So I'd like to hear some
> convincing arguments for Python.

Could you spare some of your precious free time to tell us what you
want to do with Python?

If we don't know your goals, how could we advise you convincingly?

Another approach which might take you less time: download Python, install,
run through the tutorial, then if you haven't already decided you'd
like to find more uses for Python, go back to the others...

-Peter



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  9 12:18:37 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 17:18:37 +0100
Subject: read a unicode file
References: <mailman.1055173457.5922.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE4B35D.DE6D5012@hotmail.com>

Pete Shinners wrote:

> i have a text file of unicode data. i'm not sure how to read this from a
> file. i can read() it into a massive python string, but cannot get it to
> convert to unicode. it's definitely inefficient to read it all at once,
> but i expect the files i'll be reading aren't too large to cause problems.

Pete,

I think that this is one way to solve the problem.

#-----------------

import codecs

f = codecs.open(filename, "rt", "utf-16")
data = f.read()
f.close

# 'data' should now contain unicode data.

#-----------------

Also, the standard iterator interface seems to be supported by the codecs.open
method as well, e.g.

for line in codecs.open(filename, mode, encoding):
    print line

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Jun  2 10:20:42 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:20:42 +0100
Subject: A Python application server?
Message-ID: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hello,
         I'm trying to put together a (basic) design for an online
examination system.  The system already exists, but is based on Java
technologies.  I have (probably prematurely) assured the author that the
system could have been developed in Python.  This is based in faith rather
than reason, as I have never had cause to consider such a thing before
(although I can now envisage that I might need to develop a simple
application server within the next year or so).

Having looked at PYRO, Twisted and WebWare I'm pretty confident that most of
the technology is in place.  But I have been told that to emulate the
existing system there would have to be a Python equivalent of an 'untrusted
Java applet'.  (I'm not convinced this is actually necessary for the given
app., but the existing system does use RMI and Java applets.)

What I'm basically trying to address is the following statement (from some
of his lecture notes):

"Java is the only mainstream technology that adds the required level of
safety for code travelling around a network, and the flexibility to invent
our own controls, regardless of the operating system being used."



As the system is web-based I also want to address the security aspects
(protecting the server, foiling eavesdroppers, protecting the client).



Ideally I (with some help) can come up with a reasonably impressive solution
that will convince my associate that Python is a good alternative to Java.
I'd rather find a solution that avoided Java altogether (even Jython).
Forcing the client(s) to install much software is apparently out of the
question (so no Grail / Python applets).  Any suggestions?  Cheers.



Duncan






From snails at softhome.net  Sun Jun 29 06:59:52 2003
From: snails at softhome.net (Amos Joshua)
Date: 29 Jun 2003 03:59:52 -0700
Subject: Staying Connected to a POP3/SMTP Server
References: <5a8e622e.0306251107.1d5e3202@posting.google.com> <3EFA0D74.CAF5231@engcorp.com> <r8knfv0fanlnda0hp03o80bk86pc2riu4g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5a8e622e.0306290259.3ea67374@posting.google.com>

Hmmmm..... Oh well.
Thanks everybody.



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Mon Jun  2 22:55:11 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 02:55:11 GMT
Subject: Extension without sub-classing?
References: <3EDB61A1.3050203@magma.ca>
Message-ID: <slrnbdo3qr.che.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 02:17:35 GMT, Martin d'Anjou wrote:
> Is it possible to extend a python class without sub-classing?

AFAIK, no.

Why do you want to?  I can't see that it buys you anything, and it
causes all kinds of confusion when trying to use a class spread across
multiple files.

What is it you don't like about subclassing to extend functionality?


class car:
    def start_engine( self ):
        print "Engine started"

class car_with_brakes( car ):
    def apply_brakes( self ):
        print "Car stopped"

>>> vehicle = car_with_brakes()
>>> vehicle.start_engine()
Engine started
>>> vehicle.apply_brakes()
Car stopped
>>>

-- 
 \     "Homer, where are your clothes?"  "Uh... dunno."  "You mean Mom |
  `\   dresses you every day?!"  "I guess; or one of her friends."  -- |
_o__)                                     Lisa & Homer, _The Simpsons_ |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jun 22 00:13:58 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 04:13:58 GMT
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org> <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com> <slrnbf8tsd.qc.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <m3r85nmoch.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbfab88.s70.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 21 Jun 2003 17:39:42 +0200, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> writes:
>> [the most widely used document format is] 7-bit ASCII plain text.
> 
> I do have way more .html files than .txt files.

A file's extension doesn't necessarily have any relationship to the
format of the file's contents.  Try counting by the output of the 'file'
command; it describes the content as "HTML" or "ASCII".

> I haven't counted source code files, here, obviously, but I'm not sure
> whether those would qualify as '7-bit ASCII plain text'.

    <http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/f/flat-ASCII.html>

In terms of storage of data, yes, a program source file would count as
plain ASCII, since there is no other markup or control structure.  (The
*semantics* of the data aren't important to this discussion, since we're
talking about the *format* of the data).

-- 
 \        "Most people don't realize that large pieces of coral, which |
  `\       have been painted brown and attached to the skull by common |
_o__) wood screws, can make a child look like a deer."  -- Jack Handey |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Fri Jun 13 06:30:35 2003
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 03:30:35 -0700
Subject: Syntax trees and s-exprs
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0306130230.62539033@posting.google.com>

I was programming in Visual Basic just a few moments ago, thinking about
YAML and wondering if it would be a good idea to use it to serialise Excel
worksheets, then a thought popped in to my head about Python. I remembered
reading about how people thought that the syntax tree generated by python
was rather ugly, and that someone had proposed implementing s-expressions
in python. Does anyone see any merit in python being able to parse modules
to clean s-expressions, so that it could be understood by Lisp? That would
allow for cross-compilation to other languages, or the ability to
enhance Lisp with python library code.

Just an idea.



From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Tue Jun 10 07:53:32 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:53:32 +1000
Subject: saving a excel sheet as a csv file
References: <3ee5b556$0$49116$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3FjFa.339$um2.9795@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

what about ---> xl2csv("d:\\file.xls", "d:\\file.csv", Sheet)

you might also want to rather use the form, but its been a while :-)

wbk = xl.Workbooks.Open(source)
wks = wbk.Worksheets(sheet)

"Joost van Rooij" <j.vanrooij_at_e-quest.nl> wrote in message
news:3ee5b556$0$49116$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl...
> Hello,
>
> I would like to save an Excel file to a csv file, which works nicely using
> com, but I can't seem to find out how to be able to select a particular
> sheet.
>
> This code converts all right, but the selecting the right sheet won't
> work...
>
> from win32com.client import Dispatch
>
> def xl2csv(source, destination, sheet):
>     xl = Dispatch("Excel.Application")
>     xl.Workbooks.Open(source)
>     xl.Sheets.Select(sheet)
>     xl.ActiveWorkbook.SaveAs(destination,FileFormat= "6")
>     xl.Workbooks(1).Close(0)
>     return
>
> xl2csv("d:\\file.xls", "d:\\file.csv", "Sheet2")
>
> Any help would be very much appreciated....
>
> grtz Joost
>
>





From inyeol.lee at siimage.com  Thu Jun  5 19:22:27 2003
From: inyeol.lee at siimage.com (Inyeol Lee)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:22:27 -0700
Subject: FW: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7F46@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
References: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7F46@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
Message-ID: <20030605232227.GC7468@siliconimage.com>

On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 07:12:05PM -0400, Leeds, Mark wrote:
> I have another date question :
> 
> Now I have dates that are of the form
> 
> 2/14/1980 so
> I tried to read them in using
> 
> Temptime = time.strptime(filedate,"%m" + "//" + "%d" + "//" + "%Y") But
> I get some weird error like format mismatch.
> 
> Could it be because the date is 2/14 instead of 02/14 ?
> 
> This will be my last question about dates.

Use single slash. You don't need to escape it.




From hankhu at 263.net  Fri Jun 27 11:59:48 2003
From: hankhu at 263.net (hh)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 23:59:48 +0800
Subject: How to upload a file with httplib?
References: <bdgebp$fe1$1@mail.cn99.com> <87smpvk6sc.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3efc67c2@shknews01>

John,

    thanks a lot, I will try it.

Hank Hu
hankhu2001 at hotmail.com

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> ???? news:87smpvk6sc.fsf at pobox.com...
> "Hank Hu" <hankhu at 263.net> writes:
>
> > I'm writing a prototype with python and need upload a zip file to a web
> > server. Any idea?
>
> http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientForm/
>
> At your own risk, since file upload is poorly tested ATM.  You'd need
> this version:
>
> http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientForm/src/ClientForm-0.1.3a.tar.gz
>
> IIRC, there's not yet a method on HTMLForm, so you need to use the
> control directly:
>
> import urllib2
> from ClientForm import ParseResponse
>
> forms = ParseResponse(urllib2.urlopen("http://www.example.com/"))
> form = forms[0]
> ctrl = form.find_control(type="file")
> # note multi-file upload not implemented yet
> # name and content_type args. to add_file are optional
> ctrl.add_file(open("my.zip"), name="my.zip")
> response2 = urllib.urlopen(form.click())
>
>
> John





From legere at ll.mit.edu  Tue Jun 17 09:00:19 2003
From: legere at ll.mit.edu (Ronald Legere)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:00:19 -0400
Subject: "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" in Python?
References: <a86143fb.0306160718.75cd6216@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055850150.2919.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <WdEHa.62$Du1.56@llnews.ll.mit.edu>

Hmm, Dirk is quite right about that. But I had thought of doing the later
chapters as 'scheme in python' rather then python in python. Yeah, it looses
something of course. Or one could try to come up with some kind
of 'little python'??  But then you have to learn to do all the
white space stuff yourself.


"Dirk Gerrits" <dirk at gerrits.homeip.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1055850150.2919.python-list at python.org...
 > As Ronald already noted, it could be done for the earlier chapters. But
> the Python grammar is a lot more complex than Scheme's. I think the
> evaluators and interpreters of the later chapters would be quite a
> challenge, and mostlikely many times larger than their Scheme
counterparts.
>
> Regards,
> Dirk Gerrits
>
>
>





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jun 17 14:13:25 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:13:25 -0400
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
Message-ID: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com>

Every few months, someone asks for tips on convincing 'management'
that Python is as safe a business bet as closed-source, proprietary
products.  Here's a point that is sometimes overlooked: unlike the
latter,

Python cannot be killed.

Consider this headline: Microsoft to kill popular Linux antivirus
product
http://www.techinformer.com/go.cgi?id=808215

Summary: RAVAntiVirus is a commercial multi-OS product which has been
particularly successful in the Linux server market.  Microsoft is
buying it with intention to kill it.  The partners in 60 countries who
helped make it a success apparently get nothing.  The customers
apparently will have to switch when their licenses expire (and not
just not get upgrades).

Python cannot be killed.  It cannot be bought out and discontinued.
If you build into your business, you can keep it forever.  And you can
join with others to improve it.

Terry J. Reedy





From kj.kjn at wanadoo.fr  Thu Jun 26 09:11:33 2003
From: kj.kjn at wanadoo.fr (kj.kjn)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:11:33 +0200
Subject: How to build a swig module swig from a c program which call a DLL.
Message-ID: <bderka$fnf$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

I want to build a swig module from a C program which call a DLL.
I would like to know how to modify the SETUP.PY file in order to create the
module.






From aryal at ameritech.net  Tue Jun 17 17:05:29 2003
From: aryal at ameritech.net (Anoop Aryal)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:05:29 GMT
Subject: Bug (??) in the time module?
In-Reply-To: <3eef2d20$1_1@themost.net>
References: <_wuHa.4165$87.2880721@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <3eef2d20$1_1@themost.net>
Message-ID: <toLHa.4355$87.3052420@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

Paul Watson wrote:
>  I get the same result using Python 2.2.2 on Linux.  However, I get a
> different result using 2.3.b1 on Windows 2000.  If you are going to persist
> a timestamp, it might be a good idea to write it in UTC.  Using ISO 8601
> format might be a good idea as well.
> 
> C:\src\python\t>cat tim.py
> #! /usr/bin/python
> 
> import time
> 
> thetime = time.time()
> timeString = time.ctime(thetime)
> print timeString
> timeTuple = time.strptime(timeString)
> print timeTuple
> thetime2 = time.mktime(timeTuple)
> timeString2 = time.ctime(thetime2)
> print timeString2
> 
> C:\src\python\t>tim.py
> Tue Jun 17 09:48:01 2003
> (2003, 6, 17, 9, 48, 1, 1, 168, -1)
> Tue Jun 17 09:48:01 2003
> 
> 

your time tuple is different from mine (of course. but i'm talking about 
the last number in the list). it would be interesting to see if you got 
the same number on linux and windows at the last position in the tuple 
(here it's -1)

but regardless of the time format, round tripping using the defaults 
should have been handled correctly, right?

i have to use localtime since this is a 'report' of when certain things 
ran and i don't want to figure out the conversion to/from UTC everytime 
i see the report. but it also doubles as a makefile type dependency 
tracking. so i need the round tripping. i ended up comparing the tuple 
and is working for the most part.

thanks for your input tho.

anoop.




From news at titanic.co.uk  Sat Jun 28 12:41:05 2003
From: news at titanic.co.uk (Simon Faulkner)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:41:05 +0100
Subject: Login Script
References: <issqfv87sfm140ug0ocq716b6kj3j15ggv@4ax.com> <bdkc6i$smvej$1@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <37hrfvgmdq390jc3iubr41iq7rruadd9ip@4ax.com>

Big thanks for this comprehensive reply.

I am well versed with MySQL so that's my backend.

Any particular favorites for a front end?

Simon



From lazypointer at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 11 03:39:14 2003
From: lazypointer at yahoo.com (Byron Morgan)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:39:14 GMT
Subject: Sockets and threads
Message-ID: <C0BFa.597$n46.42261599@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>

Running 2.2 on W2K - I keep running into this issue; perhaps a kind guru
will help.

If I monitor a socket connection or even jsust listen to a socket in a
thread, Python's cpu usage expands to use all available processor time.
Multithreading makes a great deal of sense, when I need to listen to a port
or monitor a connection while processing other stuff in the foreground, but
a program that uses 3% cpu will immediately demand all available cpu as soon
as the listening or monitoring is moved into threads. The program will run
just fine, but the machine will become sluggish when attempting to start
other apps.

Byron Morgan






From theller at python.net  Wed Jun 18 11:30:39 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:30:39 +0200
Subject: preventing creation of instance
References: <bco6se$frs$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de> <mailman.1055897132.700.python-list@python.org>
 <bcp973$kkp$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de> <3EF05E3C.C11192CE@engcorp.com>
 <bcpnjc$p5a$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de> <3EF07B90.764F66E7@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <brwvs8rk.fsf@python.net>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Mirko Koenig wrote:
>> 
>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:42:36 +0200, Peter Hansen wrote:
>> 
>> > Mirko Koenig wrote:
>> >> Is using __new__ a common way in programming python like the contructor
>> >> in c++ or is it seldom used ?
>> >
>> > Perhaps the best answer is that it's *extremely* "new", no pun intended.
>> > It was only just added to the language, and relatively few people have
>> > probably tried using it, let alone figured out how to judge the best
>> > time to use it, and when not to.
>> >
>> > And many of us are still programming with older versions that didn't
>> > have that feature.
>> 
>> So perhaps throwing an exception in __init__ is the better way for me?
>
> In my opinion, and certainly after seeing Aahz' comment, yes.

See also:

http://www.python.org/workshops/1997-10/proceedings/savikko.html

Thomas



From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Jun 12 20:43:35 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 20:43:35 -0400
Subject: long-term release schedule?
In-Reply-To: <5654fff9.0306121555.4c214e92@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKENDEJAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Ray Smith]
> ...
> I guess the "angle" of my question was it Guido and his team didn't
> get commercial backing to continue development of Python how would it
> effect the growth and commercial support of Python??

Well, how *has* it affected it?  Nobody has had a full-time job working on
Python since BeOpen.com folded.  Zope Corporation has been very generous in
funding Python work beyond the minimum that Zope Corp needs for its own
plans, but all of us at PythonLabs spend nearly all our paid time directly
on Zope-related work now (most of which uses Python, but decreasingly little
of which develops Python anymore).  For example, follow the bug and patch
trackers on SourceForge, and you'll see that the sum of Python work done by
Guido and his crew is dwarfed by the work done by others, and that's been so
for a long time now.

> My guess is enough people would be around to keep bug fixes going

That's been the case, although Python could sure use more volunteers to cut
back the bug and patch backlog.  Alas, you just can't find people willing to
spend their Saturday nights wondering why threading sucks on HP-UX boxes
using compilers nobody's heard of, let alone used <wink>.

> and the real value of Python is now becoming all the external
> libraries???

And dicts.  Outside of those two, nothing in Python is worth spit <wink>.





From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jun  4 13:12:21 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:12:21 +0200
Subject: [pyPgSQL] FAILED array.py in regression
In-Reply-To: <6apDa.519$KA6.70674583@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
References: <6apDa.519$KA6.70674583@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3EDE2875.2060205@ghaering.de>

John Fabiani wrote:
> short version
> ERROR: CheckForIntInsertMultiDim (__main__.ArrayTestCases)
> 
> raise OperationalError, msg
> OperationalError: ERROR: pg_atoi: zero-length string.
> 
> The above error is the only error I get when testing the regression.
> I'm using SuSE 8.2 Python 2.2.2
> (i'm a newbie to Linux and compiled the source myself without any real
> knowledge of what I was doing by using "setup.py")
> 
> Is this serious??????

No, we know this error happens with PostgreSQL 7.3 servers. I'm not sure 
if it's fixed in CVS yet, but I think so. I'll have to check.

A new release should go out pretty soon now, anyway.

-- Gerhard





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jun  4 12:28:25 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 12:28:25 -0400
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1054718112.3943.python-list@python.org> <bbl189$fs9$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <bbl6n9$mch$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <bbl189$fs9$1 at driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>,
Sean Ross <frobozz_electric at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Where the property attribute would signal the interpreter to look for nested
>functions 'get', 'set', and possibly 'del'. You would only be required to
>define the methods you want, but they would have to follow this form. So,
>for instance, creating a read-only property could look something like this:
>
>def bar(self)[property]:
>    def get():
>        return self.__bar

No, Guido will insist on requiring a definition of a set function that
raises an exception if you want to make it read-only.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From nospam at nospam.nospam  Thu Jun  5 11:26:37 2003
From: nospam at nospam.nospam (paul s)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:26:37 GMT
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <NiJDa.8190$ct2.55571653@news-text.cableinet.net>

Pupppy Wizzard wrote:

> Hi. I am an old school programmer looking to modernize my skill set. I
> want to focus on one new language. Should I choose:
> 
> VB
> VB.net
> C#
> C++
> Python
> Smalltalk
> J#
> JScript.net
> or Java?

Non of them. You want BrainFuck or Befunge.

-- 
Paul S
        




From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Thu Jun 19 20:03:02 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:03:02 GMT
Subject: Python 2.2.2 win32 build
In-Reply-To: <slrnbf2n2q.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
References: <mailman.1055842229.11549.python-list@python.org> <vuj2fv4t6fkbecgncjq0utne7oounvsde1@4ax.com> <slrnbf2n2q.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <WasIa.129$rN.2282@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Ben Finney wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:55:09 -0700, Tim Roberts wrote:
> 
>>Why would you want to [build Python yourself from source]?  There is
>>already a standard distribution.  Why make a non-standard
>>distribution?  I'm just as comfortable knowing that I can count on *A*
>>Python distribution being *THE* Python distribution.
> 
> 
> I don't know the OP's reasons for building from source, but since you
> ask "why", I can give a pretty strong one:  Because you want a Python
> built with options different from the default build.  Perhaps you want
> to enable experimental features, or you want to disable a whole bunch of
> things that won't be used on the target machine, or you want to test out
> a new extension yourself.
> 
> Does that give a better idea of why one might want to do it?

I think you misread.  The original question was "why do you want to 
create a distribution", rather than "why do you want to build from 
source".  I don't see a good reason for the former - if you want to 
embed or release Python with your product, then you would generally put 
Python *in* your products installer, not attempt to re-use the Python one.

Using the standard .wse file to create a distribution with non-standard 
options would be doing the people who use it an injustice.

Mark.





From ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk  Thu Jun  5 14:44:32 2003
From: ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 19:44:32 +0100
Subject: Module for quasi-random sequences?
References: <1BLDa.10298$KF1.144776@amstwist00>
Message-ID: <3edf8f97$0$45186$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>

carljohan.rehn at chello.se wrote:

> Does anyone know if there exists a python module for generating
> quasi-random sequences (Sobol, Halton, Niedereiter, etc)?
> 
> Carl

Sorry this doesn't directly answer your question, but there is the random
module that is part of the standard library.

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-random.html

Not sure what method it uses, but unless you actually need those specific
methods of generating a random list it's good enough for most applications.

HTH,
Andrew



From olaf at wasmuth.net  Fri Jun  6 06:51:49 2003
From: olaf at wasmuth.net (Olaf Wasmuth)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:51:49 +0000
Subject: Calling function in shared lib
References: <bbkuh7$2an$1@esaoa1.esoc.esa.de> <vfvlx1fe.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <bbptb6$967$1@esaoa1.esoc.esa.de>

Thomas Heller wrote:

> Olaf Wasmuth <owasmuth at web.de> writes:
> 
>> I am trying to write python code that is able to invoke
>> a function that was compiled into a shared library
>> (actually, FORTRAN routines).  I did succeed for a specific
>> routine in a specific library, but now I want to do this
>> in a more flexible way.
>> 
>> That is, given the library path and the "signature" of the
>> routine (e.g. from a configuration file) at run time, I
>> would like to call this function from within Python. My
>> target platform is Unix (Solaris), so I'm thinking of
>> using the GNU libltdl to access the library and do the
>> call. But how can I feed the parameters into it ? Did
>> anybody do this already, or do you have some pointers
>> for me ?
> 
> Sounds almost like ctypes:
> http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/
> although I've never heard it runs on Solaris.
> 
> But I'll gladly accept patches!
> 
> Thomas
Hi Thomas,

the good news is that ctypes works seems to work
(at least somewhat) under Solaris  (!!!):
#!/usr/bin/env python
from ctypes import *

libc = cdll.LoadLibrary("/lib/libc.so")
print libc
libc.sleep( c_int(3) )
print libc.sleep

I get:
<CDLL '/lib/libc.so', handle ff200960 at ee380>
... and then, after 3 seconds ...
<ctypes._CdeclFuncPtr object at 0xe2200>

Nice tool, thanks for your suggestion ! Now I have
to see how this works out with compiled FORTRAN
routines ...

Regards,

Olaf.
--
Python makes me miss Smalltalk less



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Jun 16 02:07:47 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:07:47 +1000
Subject: long-term release schedule?
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE796D7A@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com]
> 
> "Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)" wrote:
>
> > He's assuming that everyone would die in such a war. He's 
> > forgetting that the vault dwellers, ghouls, super mutants
> > and deathclaws will still be around ...
> 
> Damn _right_ we will!  You can't keep us deathclaws(*) down!
> 
> -Peter
> 
> (*) What in god's name is a deathclaw?

Oh dear ...

http://www.interplay.com/fallout/
http://www.interplay.com/fallout2/

Tim Delaney




From vvainio at tp.spt.fi  Thu Jun 12 13:38:38 2003
From: vvainio at tp.spt.fi (Ville Vainio)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 10:38:38 -0700
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ad496f8.0306120938.6b68370c@posting.google.com>

bitbucket at safe-mail.net (poiboy) wrote in message news:<af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77 at posting.google.com>...

> 4.5) Leaving if:, elif:, and else: on their own lines for fear of
>      scorn or deprecation.

5. You think that *all* the other programming languages are broken
(apart from Ruby, which is just a misguided Japanese rip-off ;-).

6. You immediately write almost any programming project off as
"trivial, two days maximum", until you realize it has to be written in
C++.



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Thu Jun  5 16:31:33 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:31:33 -0400
Subject: Pollyanna Presentations in Programming Practice (was Re: Twisted
 Panglossia)
In-Reply-To: <slrnbdv8vl.ktj.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
References: <u65nk5x8p.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com> <mailman.1054749788.8638.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1054830612.3231.python-list@python.org> <w/43+kKkXUlb092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list@python.org> <slrnbdv8vl.ktj.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <3EDFA8A5.5010305@rogers.com>

Dave Benjamin wrote:

>In article <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list at python.org>, David Mertz wrote:
>  
>
>>But I've noticed something both on the Twisted list, and when Twisted
>>has come up here on c.l.py recently.  The Twisted developers have a
>>greater excess of enthusiasm for their package than do the developers of
>>other large frameworks (even more than my Pollyannaishness in my
>>ironically confessed advocacy of my own little tools).
>>    
>>
>
>Really? I had no idea you were Polynesian! ;)
>
>A search for "Pollyannaishness" on Google returns 3 results. Merriam Webster
>offers no definition. Care to elucidate this obfuscation? =)
>  
>
You'll probably need to look at the root, a good general search strategy 
BTW ;) . In this case, having the character or aspect of a Pollyanna, 
overly optimistic and enthusiastic.

    http://www.bartleby.com/61/83/P0418300.html

Just another shameless self-promoter, (use SimpleParse, OpenGLContext 
and ResourcePackage, darn it, they're |<00|_ ;) :) ),
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Mon Jun 16 09:58:54 2003
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:58:54 -0300
Subject: Python articles
In-Reply-To: <nrkpevsm7psg011fvqs0qjh6uj2jjbmjph@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.1055704587.15481.python-list@python.org> <nrkpevsm7psg011fvqs0qjh6uj2jjbmjph@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030616135853.GD16713@ibook.distro.conectiva>

> Your website is about 2 meters wide, but my monitor only about 300mm,
> so reading it is rather inconvenient.
> (IE V6 on Windows 2000 Pro)

FWIW, I think I've fixed the "bug". I've done so by removing the "width"
option from the CSS for the tags h[1-5] and pre. IOW, it was really a
bug in IE.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Jun  6 09:54:29 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:54:29 -0400
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com>

"Ed Avis" <ed at membled.com> wrote in message
news:l1r867k8p8.fsf at budvar.future-i.net...
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:
>
> >Lambda expressions are syntactic sugar that allow the embedding of
> >what would otherwise be a def statement within some other statement
>
> Not quite, of course, since not everything that can appear in a def
> statement can appear in a lambda.

That the legal bodies of lambdas are a subset of the legal bodies of
defs is the subject of discussion and therefore the context of my
statement that hardly needed to be repeated within the statement.

> The point is that the supposed justification for lambda's
restrictions

My justification for the rule is that it is the simplest possible, and
that it probably makes implementation simple and dependable.

> - that it is supposed not to have side effects - bears no relation
to
> how it really behaves.

The behavior is exactly as advertised: it turns an expression into a
function 'on the fly'.  Some people think this covers enough useful
cases to offset the nuisance of having it in the language.  Others
don't, and would like it removed in Python 3.

>  The extra complexity introduced by having an
> arbitrary and semantically meaningless (IMHO) set of rules about
what
> can be used in lambda and what can't doesn't seem worthwhile.

There is one simple rule: the body of a lambda can be any Python
expression.  Not mulltiple rules.  Not complex, but about the simplest
possible.  It should take a whole minute to learn for anyone with the
requisite knowledge of Python expressions, which one needs to know
anyway to even start programming in Python.

> >Extending lambda to embed even simple statements within expressions
> >is problematical:
>
>     lambda x: assert(x > 0)
>     lambda x: print 'value:', x
>     lambda x: y += x    # (without any change to scoping rules)
>
> I don't see what is so problematical about any of these.

Perhaps I am wrong in my doubts.  When you produce a clear grammar
rule for extented lambda and produce a version of the interpreter that
implements the rule without easily detectable bugs and plausibly claim
that there were no real problems in doing so, then I will reconsider
my statement.  Your itch, your scratch it.

 > parsable.  But it seems unlikely, one of the big advantages of
Python
> is is clean grammar (currently marred only by the strange rules
about
> lambda-expressions, IMHO).

You persist in falsely claiming that the current simple rule is
multiple and  complex or 'strange', yet appear to advocate adding at
least one rule that would certainly add complexity if not strangeness.
This puzzles me ;-)

Terry J. Reedy





From mcherm at mcherm.com  Mon Jun 16 14:01:11 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:01:11 -0700
Subject: for a in range(1000000) :
Message-ID: <1055786471.3eee05e7c370b@mcherm.com>

Maurix writes:
 [... notes that "for a in range(x)" idiom seems wasteful of memory ...]
 [... observes that an iterator-like construct would not waste the memory ...]
> 
> Exist someting like this in python library? Why not all the people use 
> this form an not range() that allocate memory? Maybe may questions are 
> stupid but i'm a newbie in python, sorry.

Actually, you're really onto something here. The range() function is
a very old bit of Python, dating back YEARS before iterators even existed.
The xrange() function was created for exactly this purpose. Unfortunately,
the range() function could not simply be changed to work the way xrange()
works now, because there was lots of existing code out there that assumed
that range() returned a list. You see, the maintainers of Python work
quite hard to avoid as much backward-incompatibility as possible.

However, Guido has explicitly NOT tried to promote the use of xrange().
There have been versions of Python for which xrange() saved memory but
ran slower, but that was never the real reason (and in the newest versions
of Python xrange() is probably faster). The real reason is that Guido
doesn't want people to have to remember to use range() some places and
xrange() other places. He'd rather have people write "list(range(x))"
when they need to get a list, otherwise *never* use the version that
wastes memory. So eventually, (perhaps Python 3.0?) the plan is to migrate
to new behavior for range() and then get rid of xrange().

The issues that you're finding here are ones which are of current
concern to the Python developers. Look, for instance at this thread: 
 http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036358.html
where this very issue was discussed on Python-dev this week. If you're
coming up with the same concerns and similar sorts of solutions to
what the Python developers are working on, then clearly you are not
asking "stupid" questions. Keep on asking them! And meanwhile, use
xrange() if you really need to save the memory and speed, or range()
if the performance doesn't hurt and you care more about readability.

-- Michael Chermside





From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 12 11:48:03 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 15:48:03 GMT
Subject: PEP318: property as decoration
References: <bc568h$5t4$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <DIuFa.5725$Gm4.690616@news20.bellglobal.com> <bc7ibf$fjv$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <20030611184025.GB5575@nl.linux.org> <mailman.1055362671.6994.python-list@python.org> <bc8t5b$chh$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <mailman.1055410883.13759.python-list@python.org> <bca6or$rg9$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <bca7bj$57c$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

"Sean Ross" <frobozz_electric at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:bca6or$rg9>
> f()
> print f.g
>
> """OUTPUT
> ffffff
> f
> gggggg
> g
> <function g at 0x00961C70>
> """

Although, you can't do this:

f.g()

so, looks like this idea doesn't pan out...oh well...






From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jun 10 09:48:22 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:48:22 -0500
Subject: PyUNO connection to OpenOffice
In-Reply-To: <3ee5dd42$1_2@noticias.ulpgc.es>
References: <3ee5abaa$1_2@noticias.ulpgc.es>
        <3ee5dd42$1_2@noticias.ulpgc.es>
Message-ID: <16101.57766.226074.368944@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Enrique> After checking "netstat -an", as suggested, there is NO entry
    Enrique> for anythig listening at port 2002. Either OpenOffice is
    Enrique> running or not.

I think you've exhausted our expertise (I know you've exhausted mine ;-).
At this point I think you need to go back to the StarOffice/OpenOffice folks
(or maybe the PyUNO folks) and ask why it's not listening on port 2002.
It doesn't look like a Python problem at this point.

Skip




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Jun 26 09:09:51 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 26 Jun 2003 09:09:51 -0400
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
In-Reply-To: <3EFA17BC.9060600@mxm.dk>
References: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com> <3EF9EF52.8070600@yahoo.com>
	<3EFA17BC.9060600@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <oq7k79f0io.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Max M]

> # renaming the append method makes it a bit easier on the eye.

> htmlPage=[]
> a = htmlPage.append # ah dynamic languages
> a("<html><header></header><body>")
[...]
> htmlDoc="\n".join(htmlPage)

> # using cStringIO should be the fastest approach

> import cStringIO
> io = cStringIO()
> a = io.write
> a("<html><header></header><body>\n")
[...]
> htmlDoc = io.getvalue()
> io.close()

Your usage of "should" is Interesting :-).  I wonder what it really means;
either that you did not time it, or that you timed it and found it not to be
the fastest.  I'm a big fan of the `.append'-based method, but would switch
to `cStringIO' if it was significantly faster[1].  I guess that both methods
are roughly O(N), but would suspect the `cStringIO' might have a higher
start factor, making it less appealing for only a few short strings.  Did
someone actually timed both methods compared, and got an opinion?

--------------------
[1] And also given, for stylistic reasons, that the `io.close()' can be
spared.  The first example does not explicitely empty `htmlPage'.  But this
is likely an orthogonal issue and another debate.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From amk at amk.ca  Tue Jun 24 09:01:25 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:01:25 -0500
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056387220.30017.python-list@python.org> <7ECdndDM99Lkq2qjXTWcqw@speakeasy.net> <23891c90.0306240052.78684551@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vu-cnZQgo5841mWjXTWcrg@speakeasy.net>

On 24 Jun 2003 01:52:27 -0700, 
	Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.net> wrote:
> The thing is that Python and its developers quite often have to live
> (and work) alongside other technologies; having a set of common APIs
> is important if you consider them in that context.

In practice, there's no way to access those other technologies from Python.
There's a Python wrapper for the Xerces DOM implementation, but I never hear
about anyone using it; there's a wrapper for libxml2, but it has its own 
API that's somewhat similar to ElementTree (but not as nice to use --
someone should fix that, because libxml2 is blazingly fast).  So any DOM
implementation you use will likely have been built by the Python world, and
could have been written to a standard interface. Jython users could use the
Python interface or use the Jython mapping of Java interfacers. 

When you think about it: how useful is it that the Python DOM interface uses
the same method names as the Java or Perl interface?  What's gained by this?
I initially thought there might be some gain from being able to use material
written for other languages to learn the API, but don't know how most users
learn the DOM; do they read the DOM Recommendation, look at tutorials, read
the implementation source, or just copy existing code?

In this context, I find the existence of jDOM, a Java-centric DOM-like API, 
to support this view.  There's even a jDOM JSR, the Java world's equivalent
of a PEP.

--amk



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jun  4 12:31:52 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 12:31:52 -0400
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054726447.7340.python-list@python.org> <bbkuu3$t24$1@panix3.panix.com> <vds2mandjdvp48@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bbl6to$mq7$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <vds2mandjdvp48 at corp.supernews.com>,
Cameron Laird <claird at phaseit.net> wrote:
>In article <bbkuu3$t24$1 at panix3.panix.com>, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>>In article <mailman.1054726447.7340.python-list at python.org>,
>>Gerrit Holl  <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>Smalltalk isn't practical. 
>>
>>That's not quite true.  I know plenty of Smalltalk programmers who would
>>disagree, and Squeak is making some inroads.
>
>But it's almost true.  As fond as I am of Squeak--and, let's
>note, *correct* programs, as Smalltalk facilitates, are eminently
>practical--I think Smalltalk is on the mostly-wrong side of a great
>historical divide.  Python's made to play nicely with others; you can
>extend it, embed it, wrap it, call out from it, connect to OS-level
>resources, and so on.  Smalltalk's a consummate expression of a more
>insular model, where everything *is* Smalltalk.  With a gun to my head,
>I'd be willing to abbreviate that as "impractical".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the whole point of Squeak was to
remedy those issue.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From jfabiani at yolo.com  Thu Jun 12 11:48:58 2003
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (John Fabiani)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:48:58 GMT
Subject: Why not BOA GUI builder?
References: <KgQFa.769$nX2.90862759@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Jh1Ga.386$bF.49780983@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

Well thanks everyone.  It appears that it is worth using BOA in my quest to
find a non-M$ language to use for the future.
-- 
John Fabiani





From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 23 00:11:09 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 22 Jun 2003 21:11:09 -0700
Subject: Calling a function, arguments in a dict ??
References: <wYpJa.8525$Hb.148440@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0306222011.1488bd80@posting.google.com>

"Thomas Weholt" <2002 at weholt.org> wrote in message news:<wYpJa.8525$Hb.148440 at news4.e.nsc.no>...
> If I got a dictionary with a bunch of key/values I want to use as named
> arguments for a function, how do I do that?
> 
> Say we got a function a, takes three parameters; x,y,z. In my dictionary I
> got {'z': 1, 'x': 2, 'y': 3}. How can I create some code that will call it
> like this :
> 
> a(z =1, x=2, y=3)
> 
>  ???

kwargs = {'z':1, 'x':2, 'y':3}
a(**kwargs)



From edcjones at erols.com  Wed Jun 18 23:28:55 2003
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:28:55 -0400
Subject: Setting a class attribute given its name
Message-ID: <bcraop$fss$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

The standard way to set a class attribute is

class X(object):
     i = 1

Given the string 'i', how do I set the class attribute? The following 
doesn't work (Python 2.2.3):

class X(object):
     setattr(X, 'i', 1)

Thanks,
Ed Jones




From member31260 at dbforums.com  Mon Jun 16 12:05:42 2003
From: member31260 at dbforums.com (risadinha)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:05:42 +0000
Subject: Bug? if PyGreSQL, inserttable is used followed by a for loop
References: <x8qy9er7n81.fsf@cspcas2.swan.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3007458.1055779542@dbforums.com>

although the original post is more than a year old, I want to add:

I am experiencing the same behaviour as Anton:
After calling db.inserttable(...) the next for-loop breaks. If I comment
the db-methods, the script runs fine (except that it does not insert
anything...).

The PostgreSQL version is: 7.3.3
I have compiled PyGreSQL out of the source tree of 7.3.2.

So, isn't anyone else using inserttable in combination with loops, or
is PyGreSQL not maintained anymore (why is it then shipped with
Postgres?), or... ???

cheers,
Chantal

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Fri Jun 20 13:50:17 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 10:50:17 -0700
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
In-Reply-To: <yfsisr17baz.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com>
	 <bcnova$ma5$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <bcnpei$96r$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	 <bco0f3$jvp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <yfsznkg9wvx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
	 <slrnbev66f.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	 <yfsr85s9qoq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
	 <bcoi9d$lh0co$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
	 <yfsznkf8jbv.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
	 <mailman.1055968731.577.python-list@python.org>
	 <yfsadcf815v.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
	 <mailman.1055978615.24790.python-list@python.org>
	 <yfsisr17baz.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1056131417.2282.79.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Thu, 2003-06-19 at 19:05, Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Cliff Wells <LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net> writes:
> > 
> > Anyway, my point being that no matter how one might feel about
> > Stallman's views, I don't think anyone can cast any real doubt on his
> > integrity.  
> 
> Not that my aim is to cast any real doubt on Stallman's integrity, but why
> can't I?

Because spreading FUD is evil.  You'll be forced keep one pinky near
your mouth whenever you say "one million dollars".

> > If the GPL changes, it will be to bring the letter in line with the spirit,
> > not to strip authors or users of their protections or rights.
> 
> While it seems indeed unlikely that the FSF will *maliciously* modify the GPL
> in a way that doesn't reflect the aims of authors of GPL'ed software, it is
> far less of a stretch to assume that the FSF could make changes that some
> authors would feel rather unhappy about.
> 
> Indeed the probability of the FSF changing licenses in such a fashion seems to
> be 1, judging by recent FDL issues:
> (<http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/debian-legal-200304/msg00256.html>)

Yes, this sort of thing is to be expected.  I also expect that it will
eventually be worked out in a reasonable fashion (FWIW, I side with the
Debian crew on this one).  If it isn't, then there is always the
recourse of forking emacs again <wink>

> > Yes, it *is* a matter of trust.  But then so is running any software you
> > didn't personally write, trusting users not to copy your software
> > illegally or the clerk at the store to give you the right change. 
> > Despite appearances, the world runs on trust.  
> 
> Let me remind you that I brought this up in the context of a zealot's claim
> that only the GPL "guarantees anything", whereas other licenses don't, which
> is patently false, even in the wider sense that BSD/MIT style licenses require
> faith in others' whereas GPL doesn't.

Okay, context accepted.  I only vaguely read that individual's post
because it seemed a bit incoherent.  I do agree with him that for the
most part, if you are concerned about protecting your code from being
usurped by a commercial company, the GPL offers more protections than
the BSD/MIT licenses (I think this is what he was saying <wink>), but
also agree that zealotry is best left out of the discussion.

> Me, personally, I'd under most circumstances rather place my trust on my
> licensees under the simple terms of a license like MIT which I both fully
> control and understand than on RMS's/the FSF's ability to judge what will be
> right for me, my code and the world in general.

The problem I have with the BSD-style license is exemplified by Mac
OSX.  Apple acquired a new OS gratis, and yet still won't provide even a
Quicktime player for other OSS systems (including BSD itself).  I find
that aggravating.

Consider also the recent discovery that several commercial routers are
running embedded Linux and include enhancements that have not been
released back to the kernel developers.  Since Linux is GPL, the kernel
developers have recourse to obtain those improvements, if they desire. 
The BSD license would have left them helpless.

> No doubt there are plenty of cases where the GPL is a good choice, but I find
> that sort of advocacy that tries to convince you that only the GPL can be
> "trusted" and promotes "freedom" a bit irritating.

Understood, and I tend to agree.  For libraries, utilities and the like,
I think the BSD-style license is fine.  For larger projects (like the
Linux kernel, GCC, etc), the GPL seems more appropriate.  The dividing
line for me would be how I would feel if some company used my code in
their proprietary system.  For small stuff, who cares.  Larger projects
need more protection.

> > For various reasons, I happen to trust people in the Open Source world more
> > than others and will continue to do so until proven wrong.
> 
> I appreciate your trust ;)

=)

Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From grante at visi.com  Thu Jun 19 16:28:45 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 20:28:45 GMT
Subject: WTF is Fibonnacci
References: <7inIa.55233$Io.5225846@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <I1oIa.9952$5d.738838@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <3ef21cfd$0$1394$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <I1oIa.9952$5d.738838 at news20.bellglobal.com>, Sean Ross wrote:

> You can find a *very* detailed discussion of what the fibonacci
> numbers are here:
>
> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/FibonacciNumber.html

Wow.

And I thought it was just something thought up as an example
while somebody was explaining recursion to a Freshman CSci
class.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I hope something GOOD
                                  at               came in the mail today so
                               visi.com            I have a REASON to live!!



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jun 17 03:11:36 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:11:36 -0700
Subject: Displaying IPA characters in Tkinter
References: <mailman.1055828677.2549.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EEEBF28.9C2AB082@alcyone.com>

Mickel Gr?nroos wrote:

> 1. How do I display IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) characters
> in
> Tkinter (labels, canvas text objects)? (I need to do this on
> Unix/Linux
> and Windows 2000/XP and was hoping that I would not need to install
> any
> new fonts.)
> 
> 2. How do I make my Tkinter application accept IPA characters as input
> in
> entry fields?

There are IPA glyphs in Unicode, but I don't know whether Tkinter
supports Unicode or not.

If all else fails, there are ASCII forms of IPA that you could
potentially use provided you had careful documentation.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ God said:  "Let Newton be"; and all was light.
\__/  Alexander Pope



From uwe at oss4u.com  Mon Jun  9 16:48:35 2003
From: uwe at oss4u.com (Uwe C. Schroeder)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:48:35 -0700
Subject: py2exe and dynamic modules
References: <ve9ldqsa3h1d9d@corp.supernews.com> <3EE4D985.B091FA88@engcorp.com> <ve9ne08860r10a@corp.supernews.com> <3EE4EB9C.8533EE25@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <ve9sl37is8jp87@corp.supernews.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> "Uwe C. Schroeder" wrote:
>> 
>> The problem is, that I don't use a normal "import blah" statement, since
>> I don't know the name yet. AFAIK py2exe actually creates a dict of
>> modules t load, so if it doesn't find it at compile time, it's still in
>> the dict - making it possible to do a later import. If the module wasn't
>> specified at compile time it won't be found.
> 
> Oops, I saw that part, but just didn't think clearly enough when I
> replied. Let me try again:
> 
> File imptest.py, compiled with py2exe as imptest.exe:
> 
> import sys
> sys.path.append('c:/temp')
> filename = sys.argv[1]
> try:
>     mod = __import__(filename)
>     print mod.test()
> except:
>     print 'test failed!'
> 
> 
> File importme.py, stored in c:/temp, containing
> 
> def test():
>     return 'test OK!'
> 
> 
> Run imptest.exe from a directory other than c:/temp:
> 
> "test OK" results.
> 
> Looks like it works...  (I'm doing this test first... what did I do
> wrong this time?  :-)
> 

:-)) You knew the path up front. But I'll probably do just that and install
the modules in a fixed path, although I don't really like it. But I guess
it's easier than fiddling around with the  py2exe import stuff.

-- 
        UC

--
Open Source Solutions 4U, LLC   2570 Fleetwood Drive
Phone:  +1 650 872 2425         San Bruno, CA 94066
Cell:   +1 650 302 2405         United States
Fax:    +1 650 872 2417



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Wed Jun 11 17:15:57 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:15:57 -0400
Subject: Jython anyone?
References: <f0a79190.0306111106.4cae235@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Nw55+ks/Kr/C089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <f0a79190.0306111106.4cae235 at posting.google.com>,
ajc1961 at yahoo.com (anthony) wrote:
>Does anyone have strong feelings one way or another regarding Jython?
>I just started playing around with it, but the limited online
>discussions and the sort have me wondering if it's worthwhile.  Any
>thoughts?

   I'm about to try to use it to write a graphic applet
without having to learn Java.  Don't know yet how well this
will work.  Most discussions are found on the Jython-users
mailing list, not here.

        Regards.        Mel.



From ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk  Mon Jun  9 12:10:35 2003
From: ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 17:10:35 +0100
Subject: cut off \n
References: <3EE4ACCD.70000@gmx.net> <3ee4af26$0$45179$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>
Message-ID: <3ee4b17c$0$45171$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>

Andrew Wilkinson wrote:
> Unfortunatly without a single line if-expression in Python I can't think
> of a single line solution to this problem.

I don't like replying to myself, but having seen Alan Kennedy's response I
was reminded that a single line solution would be...

newlist = map(lambda x: x.rstrip(), yourlist)

HTH,
Andrew




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jun  6 22:37:59 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 22:37:59 -0400
Subject: Thread State and the Global Interpreter Lock
References: <53u1evk5jmdcgma5e8eupbe3tn45js302i@4ax.com> <mailman.1054932076.22749.python-list@python.org> <7812evshjqmgm6oa14jibn9t3lc8ht5qu4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EE15007.4DDD5B8F@engcorp.com>

Afanasiy wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:40:25 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> 
> >    >> Are there plans to make the Python interpreter "fully thread safe" in
> >    >> a future version?
> >
> >In what way is it not "fully thread safe" today?
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/threads.html

I suspect Skip meant to elicite from you the answer to this
question:  What problems have *you* encountered as a result of
the "not fully thread-safe" issue you are concerned about?

-Peter



From pete at shinners.org  Tue Jun 10 12:37:57 2003
From: pete at shinners.org (Pete Shinners)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:37:57 -0700
Subject: pygame-1.5.6 released
Message-ID: <bc51g4$366$1@main.gmane.org>

Pygame 1.5.6 has been released. This is a release test that needs much 
testing before the big 1.6. Major new features are; draw arcs and 
antialiased lines, system fonts, and color utilities. Also several 
crashing bugfixes for fonts.

I expect the big 1.6 release will be coming in the next 3-4 weeks. this 
1.5.6 release is considered stable and is recommended for all users.

http://www.pygame.org






From mike at bindkey.com  Mon Jun  9 16:02:57 2003
From: mike at bindkey.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:02:57 -0700
Subject: regex question
References: <003901c32ebe$cf30c650$9c01090a@4test>
Message-ID: <bc2p0a$gu6$1@main.gmane.org>

You can get (None, None, 'abc') if you use non-greedy re: r'((a)5)*?(abc)',
'abc'.
Also re.match(r'(aaaaa)*(abc)', 'abc').groups() gives you: (None, 'abc')

My guess is that in case of nested groups you get backtracking of outer
group
which doesn't reset inner group match.

Just 0.02

Mike


"Eugene Yakubovich" <eyakubovich at cccglobal.com> wrote in message
news:003901c32ebe$cf30c650$9c01090a at 4test...
Hello,

I have a question about regular expression matching.  Consider the
following:

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> import re
>>> re.match(r'((a)5)*(abc)', 'abc').groups()
(None, 'a', 'abc')
>>>

I would think that I would get (None, None, 'abc') since ((a)5)* would not
match even once.
Can anyone explain how regular expression engine matches this expression?

Thank you,
Eugene
eyakubovich at cccglobal.com







From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jun 10 13:47:14 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:47:14 -0400
Subject: reading/writing files in windows
References: <6bd9f01b.0306090825.37845495@posting.google.com> <6bd9f01b.0306100407.474a10b3@posting.google.com> <3EE5D4AF.142ABB32@engcorp.com> <6bd9f01b.0306100916.126af2f8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE619A2.55D7AF44@engcorp.com>

sameer wrote:
> 
> why would it need to be in binary mode?  

Because mixing text and binary mode under Windows can cause all sorts
of trouble with line termination and obviously you are having problems
with line termination so I was asking you to verify that you are at
least use the same mode for each part of the process.

What happens if you don't edit the file with Notepad?  Why are you
editing the file with Notepad?  Can you produce a much smaller example
program which still demonstrates the problem, preferably one that 
uses only five or ten lines and doesn't have a lot of distracting
cruft that has no bearing on the problem at hand?

> I create all files in 'a'
> append mode.  All my code reads the file only in 'r' mode.  By
> "jumbled" I you simply mean the lines are all joined together, as
> though there were no linebreaks at all.

At what point do the files appear to be corrupted?  You say you
are editing in Notepad, then saving, so presumably up until that
point everything looks okay?  Where do you notice the problem 
first arising?  In the input routine laboriously called
_extract_published_retrieved_email_object(), or elsewhere?  

Perhaps at the point it writes "raw message is >>>"?  You
don't appear to actually output anything anywhere else, so I
can't tell what you mean.

> the code that generates the contents of the file

Sorry, I can't make head nor tails of what you're actually trying
to do.  Perhaps someone else with more patience will be willing
to try to decipher it, or perhaps you can take a bit more time to
carefully describe the missing detail.

-Peter



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 17 13:10:09 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:10:09 -0700
Subject: Python as a Language Choice
References: <bckvg4$kdoar$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <3EEE26C2.E82D1EC9@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <bcnhvc$k3f8n$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

| One thing that is important to me is that the quality
| of the freely available python releases is very high.
|
| I've had problems with bugs in compilers and core libraries
| of other languages from the big-name software vendors,
| but I don't recall that ever happening with python.

Al ...

I've only tried Python 2.2.1 and have just yesterday
installed Python 2.3b1, but both seem very stable
on the Win98 system that I use, although the amount
of testing I've done with 2.3b1 is at this point limited ...

The only other major vendor compilers I've used in recent history
are Sun's Java [ 1.2 | 1.3 | 1.4 ] and have experimented a bit
with Blooshed Dev C and Dev C++ ...

Fortunately these all worked OK for me,
so I feel very lucky in view of your experience ...

Thanks for the feedback ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk  Sun Jun 15 15:08:26 2003
From: andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk (Andrew Walkingshaw)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 19:08:26 GMT
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com> <84fc4588.0306112339.10a4012b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055460443.2394.python-list@python.org> <dnjkevkeo3evk31jdnmtcclmth8g9otmh9@4ax.com> <mailman.1055554178.13347.python-list@python.org> <ca0levgibttm6bgpn3l7fjjg1h1e6qfuim@4ax.com> <mailman.1055601206.30050.python-list@python.org> <mhomev4n2lolc0sb9id8m9ul463vn2pn5b@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbeph1a.ecd.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net>

In article <mhomev4n2lolc0sb9id8m9ul463vn2pn5b at 4ax.com>, Manuel M Garcia wrote:
> As long as you play by the computer's rules, error is not much of a
> problem.  To get 5000 digits, I only had to give the computer 10 extra
> digits to work with, and that was probably overkill.  If you get your
> algorithms from books, you can trust they will be stable.

I have this Polak-Ribiere conjugate gradients minimization algorithm
I'd like to sell you, in that case...

(A problem I'm having due to error propagation, in fact, in another
part of my simulations :( ) 

- Andrew

-- 
Andrew Walkingshaw | andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk




From h_schneider at marketmix.com  Thu Jun 12 06:04:42 2003
From: h_schneider at marketmix.com (Harald Schneider)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:04:42 +0200
Subject: Python Coredump on FreeBSD
References: <mailman.1052940442.4968.python-list@python.org> <ba0bk8$s1i$04$1@news.t-online.com> <0pCdnbUTkYU6W16jXTWcow@speakeasy.net> <ba0pcs$9vi$0@216.39.172.122> <ba0v60$71a$03$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1053034886.23483.python-list@python.org> <ba1vj6$j16$02$1@news.t-online.com> <ba34j1$18o$0@216.39.172.122> <badnoh$t0e$04$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1053878763.24409.python-list@python.org> <bc4qh8$mp7$03$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1055339538.2010.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc9j7q$q2q$05$1@news.t-online.com>

OK .. this seems to work!
Thanks a lot for these investigations ...
--Harald


"Andrew MacIntyre" <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1055339538.2010.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Harald Schneider wrote:
>
> > Sorry for the huge delay ... if I compile with this option, my app fails
> > with a missing 'import thread' in line 5 of threading.py ....
>
> > "Andrew MacIntyre" <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag
>
> {...}
>
> > > ./configure --without-threads
>
> Ok, so you're using threads...
>
> I have verified that:
> - FreeBSD's pthreads implementation (libc_r) has a hard coded 1MB stack
>   for the "initial" thread (the one that starts all other threads), that
>   cannot be changed without rebuilding the library;
> - the Linuxthreads port doesn't have the same limitation, and appears to
>   function sufficiently similarly to libc_r that the regression test
>   doesn't fail.
>
> You should be able to try the linuxthreads build out by:
> - install the linuxthreads port
> - configure Python as normal
> - modify the Makefile as follows:
>   + remove any "-pthread" from the CC variable;
>   + remove any "-lc_r" from the LIBS variable;
>   + add "-I/usr/local/include/pthread/linuxthreads" to the CPPFLAGS
>     variable;
>   + add "-L/usr/local/lib -llthread" to the LIBC variable.
> - make
> - make test
>
> I've just checked this recipe with a 2.2.3 build; it should also work with
> a recent CVS sourcebase.
>
> The sre recursion limits have been tweaked again in the current CVS tree
> for FreeBSD, to reduce the risk of hitting the stack size limit.
>
> Regards,
> Andrew.
>
> --
> Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
> E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
>         andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT
2616
> Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia
>





From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Jun 15 04:48:41 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:48:41 GMT
Subject: Use __del__ methods to improve gc?
References: <mailman.1055467284.29996.python-list@python.org> <vejgchlpq414d1@corp.supernews.com> <GMjGa.155920$g92.3166903@news2.tin.it> <vejus8prkdkc36@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <JpWGa.91869$pR3.1951889@news1.tin.it>

Edward K. Ream wrote:

>> I suspect the paragraph you mean might be...: [snip]
> 
> That's the one.  Thanks Alex.  It is now up on my wall :-)

You're welcome!


> BTW, I'm chuckling a little less now.  Executing:
> 
> print len(gc.garbage), len(gc.get_objects())
> 
> periodically shows that my app is steadily eating memory.  len(gc.garbage)
> remains zero while len(gc.get_objects()) steadily increases.  And I
> thought I was recycling all bindings :-(
> 
> You wouldn't know of something similar to timeit for storage allocation,
> would you?

No, and I _do_ think it's a very serious issue.  You can build Python
with various switches to get more information on memory behavior, but
I've never found that to be a really satisfactory alternative.  A
"footprint profiler" that is able to trace where and roughly how much
memory is being spent/tied up would be a real boon.  The functions
get_referrers and get_referents of module gc do help, to some degree,
but it still seems to me that we're way behind in this task.


Alex




From alexferri at email.it  Thu Jun  5 12:21:26 2003
From: alexferri at email.it (Alex)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:21:26 GMT
Subject: data base
Message-ID: <a6KDa.46210$pR3.976604@news1.tin.it>

Hi All,

I'm newbie

What is the cross-platform/free data base that I can use in my project?

The data base not need of server db such as SQL server/Oracle/mySql, but
like a MS Access.


Thank you,
Alex - Italy





From gideon at computer.org  Mon Jun  2 07:53:43 2003
From: gideon at computer.org (gideon may)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 13:53:43 +0200
Subject: Compiling Python Modules With Visual Studio .Net?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054280875.12109.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1054211925.16331.python-list@python.org> <6EoBa.5942$ES.65345@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <mailman.1054280875.12109.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3edb3ad8$0$203$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>

John Abel wrote:

> Guys, thanks for your responses!  Think I'm going to give VS7 a try, 
> mainly to have a go with the ActivePython plugin.  Going to keep my VS6 
> CD handy, though.
> 

You can easily have both VS6 and VS7 on the same system. The worspaces 
and projects have different extensions, thus you can have VS6 and VS7 
workspaces at the same time for your projects .

ciao,

gideon

> Thanks again
> 
> John




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Jun  3 17:38:04 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:38:04 +0200
Subject: Python get's a mention on University Challenge
In-Reply-To: <20030602221406.A1163@localhost.localdomain>
References: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <VYNCa.66$5L6.15@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <mailman.1054587904.7131.python-list@python.org> <bbgttl$8r4b1$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <20030602221406.A1163@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20030603213804.GA14926@nl.linux.org>

Jack Diederich schreef op dinsdag  3 juni om 04:17:26 +0000:
> def believer_pray(text):
>   """this function always succeeds"""
>   open('/dev/god', 'w').write(text)

>>> believer_pray("Let the Brave PEPs go to Heaven and Let the Sinful PEPs burn in hell for eternity...")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "pray.py", line 3, in believer_pray
    open('/dev/god', 'w').write(text)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/dev/god'

As always, the untouchables are not allowed to pray...

Maybe open('/dev/null', 'w') would be a better implementation :P

yours,
Gerrit.




From bdeck at lycos.co.uk  Wed Jun  4 10:31:49 2003
From: bdeck at lycos.co.uk (deckerben)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:31:49 +0200
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
References: <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <3EDDF17B.F7B930E@engcorp.com> <3ede00c9$0$16597$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <3ede0165$0$16599$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

"deckerben" <bdeck at lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3ede00c9$0$16597$9b622d9e at news.freenet.de...
>
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> news:3EDDF17B.F7B930E at engcorp.com...
> > deckerben wrote:
> > By the way, do you really mean DOS, as in MS-DOS or PC-DOS or something
> > *without* Windows running on top, or do you just mean in a DOS window
> > of one of Microsoft's operating systems?
> >
> > If the former, how do you plan to get Python running?  Once you do, are
> > you sure either of the above will work on it?  They might require
modules
> > that are not available to you on DOS.
>
>
> But Python DOES run under DOS, especially well under DJGPP. Have you seen
> our project at htpp://members.lycos.co.uk/bdeck ??
>
> There is also a downloadable pre-alpha 4suite there for DOS (v12)

Sorry, I meant:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/bdeck








From ebolonev at front.ru  Sun Jun 22 21:35:30 2003
From: ebolonev at front.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:35:30 +1100
Subject: division
References: <f2sJa.19621$pK2.28535@news.indigo.ie> <18sJa.19622$pK2.28304@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <bd5m7u$ftb$1@news.rol.ru>

> > Hi, i am writing a maths program where i get input from the user and
store
> > it in
> > a string. i then use the eval fucntion to return the right answer. users
> > could type in
> > "(23+ 21) - (4 * 3) + 2" for example and the function would return an
int
> of
> > 34 which
> > I would convert to a string. The problem is division, I would like it
that
> > only
> > exact division was aloud, I mean no remainders.  In python "22 / 5"
returs
> > an int of 5
>
> I meant to type 4
>
> > i would like if that was illegal because 5 doesnt go into 22 , 4 times
> > exactly, and have the eval
> > function raise an execption which i could handle.


>>> 22/5
4
>>> 22.0/5
4.4000000000000004

>>> a=0.0
>>> (22+a)/5
4.4000000000000004
>>>


--
    Egor





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jun  2 14:42:57 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 20:42:57 +0200
Subject: A Python application server?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054576325.11678.python-list@python.org>
References: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> <mailman.1054576325.11678.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3edb9ab1$0$49104$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Evan Simpson wrote:
> Duncan Smith wrote:
> 
>> "Java is the only mainstream technology that adds the required level of
>> safety for code travelling around a network, and the flexibility to 
>> invent
>> our own controls, regardless of the operating system being used."
> 
> 
> This is one of Zope's core features.  Scripts, Documents, Methods, and 
> Templates (the various sorts of programmable object in Zope) are all 
> constrained by Zope's security policies.  You can give a totally 
> untrusted user the ability to use Python code, and the worst they can do 
> to your server is deny service.

What I know of Zope is that it still runs the Python-code or Python-enhanced
pages on the server. There's nothing like "code travelleing around the 
network". (not that I would advise to do that, like java applets, but I was 
just wondering about this response about Zope...)

--Irmen




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  9 06:18:50 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 10:18:50 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jun  9)
Message-ID: <ve8noarh1kj5c0@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "[T]he UK TV programme 'University Challenge' of 2nd June has just had
'The Python Programming Language' as the answer to a question in a round about
programming languages [...]"  -- John Ochiltree

"Python is more backward compatible with Windows than Microsoft's stuff."
Kirby Urner, on the practice of system administration


Discussion:
    Alan Kennedy devises a (near) workalike for try/finally which can
    be used freely in a generator function.
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=e30c214953b189fc>

    Taral proposes an extension to file.__init__ which makes
    subclassing file easier.
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=51e837527a3b3be6>

    Kevin Smith re-opens discussion on a better syntax for "function
    decorators" such as classmethod and staticmethod.
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=47b01ffa7cd24a24>

    Oren Tirosh explains why iterating twice over a file will work
    better in 2.3.
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=b624169f676ba84b#link7>

Announcements:
    Barry Warsaw has created a mailman hosting site for Python User
    Groups. The hosting is free and all administration is handled
    through the mailman web interface.
        <http://www.python.org/UserGroups.html#usergroups>

    Dave Kuhlman has released training materials for Python
    classes and self-teaching.
        <http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/#training>

    Confluence 0.4.6:  A functional programming language for hardware
    and logic design.  This is the first version to include the new
    Python model generator.
        <http://www.launchbird.com/>

    Design By Contract for Python 1.0 beta 2: A cross between full
    Eiffel-style contracts and the doctest module.
        <http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/>

    IDLEfork 0.9 beta 1: An official experimental fork of Python's
    Integrated DeveLopment Environment, IDLE.
        <http://sourceforge.net/projects/idlefork/>

    PyProtocols 0.9:  Extends the PEP 246 adapt() function with a new
    "declaration API" that lets you easily define your own interfaces
    and adapters, and declare what adapters should be used to adapt
    what types, objects, or interfaces.
        <http://peak.telecommunity.com/protocol_api/>

    PySQLite 0.4.3: A Python-DB API 2.0 compliant extension module
    that uses the SQLite embedded SQL database.
        <http://pysqlite.sf.net/>

    PythonCAD, seventh development release: The goal of this project
    is to create a fully scriptable drafting program that will match
    and eventually exceed features found in commercial CAD software.
        <http://www.pythoncad.org/>

    python-ldap 2.0.0pre13: An object-oriented API to access LDAP
    directory servers from Python programs.
        <http://python-ldap.sourceforge.net/>

    yawPyCrypto 0.0alpha4: Yet another wrapper for PyCrypto.
        <http://ph0enix.homelinux.org/~heiko>


========================================================================
Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of summarizing action on the
    python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From mayhew at cis.ohio-state.edu  Thu Jun  5 04:08:25 2003
From: mayhew at cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Mayhew)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 04:08:25 -0400
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bbmtpc$1b9$1@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>

Howdy,

    To address the first problem, the following sample worked for me:

def blah(arg):
     arg[:] = []
     return arg

I think the reason is that using the slice operation, you are still, as you
noticed, using methods on the "object reference" and so can change the
mutable object in place.

For the second example, this sounds like a question of scope as v is
declared in your global scope, but arg is local to the function. If you
wanted to change v itself in the function blah, you would write

def blah():
    global v
    v = v + 1

v = 1
blah()
Now v equals 2!

If you wanted to simply change the local function reference to v, you would
have to return the result and assign it to v, like so:

def blah(arg):
    arg = arg+1
    return arg

v = blah(v)
Now v equals 2!


I hope this helps somewhat,

Michael







From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jun 15 20:34:14 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:34:14 -0400
Subject: Large File Parsing
References: <vp1qevc3kaq554ktpf4907drfu68ju62s8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EED1086.922C036B@engcorp.com>

Robert S Shaffer wrote:
> 
> I have upto a 3 million record file to parse, remove duplicates and
> sort by size then numeric value. Is this the best way to do this in
> python. 

"Best" depends on your needs.  Are you having problems with
memory usage, or speed?

-Peter



From edreamleo at charter.net  Wed Jun 18 07:39:20 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 06:39:20 -0500
Subject: gc questions
Message-ID: <vf0jrcqko71j76@corp.supernews.com>

I have several questions about gc:

1.  The gc documentation says: " This module...provides access to
unreachable objects that the collector found but cannot free."  I thought
the gc could free cycles.  Why would the gc be unable to free objects that
are, in fact, no longer being used?

2. What do the terms "collectable" and "uncollectable" garbage mean?  The gc
will show such objects when gc.set_debug(gc.DEBUG_STATS) is in effect.

3.  I have not been able to do anything with gc.get_objects() except get its
length.  For example, the following throws an exception:

global lastObjectList

gc.disable()
objects = gc.get_objects()[:]  # omitting [:] also fails.
gc.enable()

if lastObjectList:
            for o in objects: # This can fail!
                        if o not in lastObjectList:
                                    print id(o)
lastObjectList = objects

The exception is thrown at the statement "for o in objects:" and the
exception is a unicode error!

Is there anything obviously wrong in this example? Being able to see which
objects have just been added to the get_objects() list would be most
helpful.

Thanks.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jun 29 19:21:44 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 01:21:44 +0200
Subject: strings
In-Reply-To: <bdnqrj$j72$2@news.rol.ru>
References: <bdnqrj$j72$2@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <3eff7487$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Egor Bolonev wrote:
> Hi All!
> 
> I have a
> 'Pink Floyd/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00'
> and I want a
> 'Pink Floyd'
> How can I manage it?
> 
> This one isn't work.
> author=f.read(30).replace('\0',' ').rstrip() #from mp3 tag
> 

That is weird. Are you sure? It works on my system:
(BTW: I think you mean \x00 instead of /x00)

 >>> a='Pink Floyd\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'
 >>> a
'Pink Floyd\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'
 >>> a.replace('\0',' ').rstrip()
'Pink Floyd'
 >>>

--Irmen


PS have a look at http://id3-py.sourceforge.net/ .... :-)




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jun 10 15:21:12 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 19:21:12 GMT
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <20030609081617512-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bc41b9$mm1$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1055268140.32619.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc5b38$8k8$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:56:06 -0400, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:

>|>        def foo(self) {'pre': synchronized(lock), 'classmethod': True}:
>|>            """ Skip Montanaro syntax """
>|>            perform method operation
>|         MOD_SYN_METH = {'pre': synchronized(lock), 'classmethod': True}
>|         def foo(self) MOD_SYN_METH:
>
>I would call the dictionary option dead-in-the-water.  Dictionaries do
>not have orders, and therefore do not let you specify the order in which
>modifiers are applied.
>
I recognized the ordering problem and wrote:
"""
... But there has to be some control definition for how/when
to use the things in the dict (noting that there is at least def-time vs call time).
I would designate an optional overriding  mod function right in the dict itself
using a special key, e.g., 'mod_fun'

         MOD_SYN_METH = {'mod_fun': mod_syn, 'pre': synchronized(lock), 'classmethod': True}
         def foo(self) MOD_SYN_METH:
             """ Skip Montanaro syntax with Bengt's mod """
             perform method operation

The implied processing might be

         foo = MOD_SYN_METH.get('mod_fun', std_mod_fun)(foo, MOD_SYN_METH, locs=locals(), globs=globals())
"""

Probably I threw in too many ideas at once ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From artyprog at wanadoo.fr  Fri Jun 13 13:14:45 2003
From: artyprog at wanadoo.fr (Salvatore)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:14:45 +0200
Subject: Twice instantiation - a solution
Message-ID: <bcd0r6$sg1$1@news-reader13.wanadoo.fr>

Thanks to Anton Muhin and all of you  of course

 >>> from functional import *
 >>> class Global:
	def __init__(self,init=0):
		self.value = init

		
 >>> let = Bindings()
 >>> let.g = Global(6)
 >>> let.g = Global(4)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#40>", line 1, in ?
     let.g = Global(4)
   File "C:\Developpement\Python22\lib\functional.py", line 1026, in 
__setattr__
     raise BindingError, "Binding '%s' cannot be modified." % name
BindingError: Binding 'g' cannot be modified.
 >>> let.v = Global(6)
 >>> let.v = Global(5)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#42>", line 1, in ?
     let.v = Global(5)
   File "C:\Developpement\Python22\lib\functional.py", line 1026, in 
__setattr__
     raise BindingError, "Binding '%s' cannot be modified." % name
BindingError: Binding 'v' cannot be modified.
 >>>


Salvatore




From webliebe at t-online.de  Tue Jun  3 07:23:00 2003
From: webliebe at t-online.de (Hendrik Reinhold)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 11:23:00 GMT
Subject: integer to string?
References: <3edbffd5.61792491@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <3edc840b.2258345@news.t-online.de>

>import random
>from random import randrange
>var1 = randrange(0,9)
>capisuite.audio_send(call,my_path+var1+".la")

Thanks to all of you, the solution was str(var1),
that means

capisuite.audio_send(call,my_path+str(var1)+".la")

runs well. 

Best regards
Hendrik




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Thu Jun 26 08:55:01 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:55:01 +1000
Subject: Reading a binary file
In-Reply-To: <3EFABDE0.7090205@semafor.ch>
References: <3EFAA842.1070505@semafor.ch> <20030626083305.GF17335@frobozz> <3EFABDE0.7090205@semafor.ch>
Message-ID: <20030626125501.GB18207@frobozz>

On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 11:33:20AM +0200, Sorin Marti wrote:
> Andrew Bennetts wrote:
> >On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 10:01:06AM +0200, Sorin Marti wrote:
> >
> >>But now I need the hex values of the binary file.
> >
> >You can get the hex value of a 1-character string with hex(ord(char)), 
> >e.g.:
> >
> >    >>> char = 'a'
> >    >>> hex(ord(char))
> >    '0x61'
> >
> 
> That is not exactly what I meant. I've found a solution (a is the binary 
> data):
> 
> b = binascii.hexlify(a)
> 
> For example it gives me C8 which is a HEX-Value. How to change this one 
> into a decimal? (The decimal should be 130, right?)

I think you might be confused about how bytes and numbers are related.  Have
a look at this:

    >>> char = 'a'
    >>> ord(char)
    97
    >>> type(ord(char))
    <type 'int'>
    >>> type(hex(ord(char)))
    <type 'str'>

So I'm guessing you don't really want the hex representation at all!

A quick way to convert a string of bytes into the corresponding numerical
values is:

    >>> s = 'hello'
    >>> map(ord, s)
    [104, 101, 108, 108, 111]

or:

    >>> s = 'hello'
    >>> [ord(char) for char in s]
    [104, 101, 108, 108, 111]

And again, I *strongly* suggest you look at the struct module -- I'm not
sure what you're trying to do, but if you're trying to interpret binary data
into numbers and things, it's almost certainly helpful:

    http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-struct.html

e.g.:

    >>> s = 'hello'
    >>> struct.unpack('5B', s)
    (104, 101, 108, 108, 111)

-Andrew.





From carsten at sarum.dk  Tue Jun 10 22:50:35 2003
From: carsten at sarum.dk (Carsten Gehling)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 04:50:35 +0200
Subject: Dear oh dear.....
Message-ID: <BHEFKIOIMEDGILGDACKDCEFGDJAA.carsten@sarum.dk>

Consider this a hate-mail. At least one of the gentle kind...

I'm currently working on YAPP (Yet Another PHP Project). I'm quite new to
Python and haven't really made any real projects in Python yet. Still while
working on the YAPP I find myself occasionally thinking: "Oh, if this was
done in Python, I could now do
<insert-nifty-feature-that-PHP-does-not-support-here>". Now this is an old
project, so I cannot switch it to Python at this stage.

Shame on you all for putting a splinter in my otherwise determined mind -
especially you MaxM.

My next project will be Python, surely....

- Carsten
-----------------------------------------
"If nothing sticks to teflon, how did they stick it to the pan?"





From ray at rays-web.com  Sun Jun 15 22:09:38 2003
From: ray at rays-web.com (Ray Smith)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 19:09:38 -0700
Subject: Python class __init__(mandatory arguments?)
References: <bcitu2$jrrv8$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <5654fff9.0306151809.79835600@posting.google.com>

Lee John Moore <leej at dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message news:<bcitu2$jrrv8$1 at ID-129053.news.dfncis.de>...
> Just for confirmation really: When I create a custom class, is
> it *really* true that def __init__() arguments can only ever be
> optional?  Eg:

No, not that I know of.  
 
> class MyClass:
> 	param1 = None
> 	param2 = None
> 	def __init__(self, param1, param2):
> 		param1 = self.param1
> 		param2 = self.param2
> 
> myinstance1 = MyClass()
> myinstance2 = MyClass("Hello", "World")

the case of:

myinstance1 = MyClass()

should fail as far as I know.

I think what you want is something like:

class MyClass:
   def __init__(self, param1=None, param2=None):
      self.param1 = param1
      self.param2 = param2

myinstance1 = MyClass()
myinstance2 = MyClass("Hello", "World")

Also note you had the use of self backwards in your __init__() method.

> 
> I'm really unhappy that myinstance1 is allowed.  ;-)

As I said I didn't think it was.
 
> I'm so accustomed to constructor arguments being mandatory in
> C++ & OP classes....and yes, yes, I realise __init__() is not a
> constructor (even though it looks like one), but if there's a
> way I can *force* arguments upon class instantiation, I'd like
> to know about it. :-)

Just try playing around in Python with what you have said and see 
what happens.

Regards,

Ray Smith



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun 12 22:05:21 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 22:05:21 -0400
Subject: long-term release schedule?
References: <mailman.1054692908.26987.python-list@python.org> <5654fff9.0306112203.6aa1ef99@posting.google.com> <3EE874F2.4042B9E4@engcorp.com> <5654fff9.0306121621.136c8568@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE93161.1DD519B@engcorp.com>

Ray Smith wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3EE874F2.4042B9E4 at engcorp.com>...
> > Ray Smith wrote:
> 
> > > I'm looking at introducing Python into a corporate environment and the
> > > above statement seems at least a little worrying (the first time I thought
> > > about it).
> >
> > Why would it be worrying in a corporate environment?  Are you
> > worried that the donated time of the developers will stop
> > being provided freely to your company?
> 
> The worrying aspect is that Python (or any development tool a company uses)
> becomes unsupported and "no one" is around (paid or unpaid) to continue
> development.

But *why* would a company need to have Python development continue?
Is this hypothetical company for some reason depending on _future_
enhancements to the language?  What damage would result to that 
company or its products or tools based on Python if Python development
were to freeze at the current level?

> You seem to have this idea I'm after a free lunch?
> I didn't think my question involved how do I get free development tools and
> support???

I guess it depends on the answer to the first question. ;-)  My company,
which uses Python, would survive and prosper just as well if Python
development stopped right now, and I'm trying to understand a situation
in which a company would suffer if that happened.  Maybe a "Python company"
which depended on growth in the Python community in order to grow
its market...  is that what you're asking about?

> The point I guess is that when you hear comments something like
> 
> """Guido would need to find commercial backing to continue development on a
> 'Python 3.0' version"""
> 
> you think about the long term future and improvements to Python.

Fair enough.  I'm very confident the future of Python would continue to
be glowing, even in that unhappy event.  Protecting against such an
occurrence is probably part of the idea behind the PSF, I suppose,
and the PBF also.

> The bottom line is I'm sick to death of priopriety companies changing the
> playing field every 5 years and needing to rework large portions of code.
> Mostly these products we use (from the company everyone loves to hate) is
> poorly designed, unstable and difficult to use.

Hear hear!  That's certainly a large part of the reasoning behind _our_
choice of Python as the mainstay of our development.

> Open Source is still considered a risky choose by most managers and I have to
> be very careful how I attempt to introduce it here.  

"Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM"?  :-)  Consider that "risk" for
most people, let alone managers, equates to "change", and you'll understand
why they are fearful.  I agree you need to tread carefully on political
ground in going this route.  I was fortunate to be in a position where
there was very little questioning of my choices (now _that's_ risky! :-)
and I didn't have to worry as much about that aspect.

> I have successfully
> introudused a couple of small open source tools, but I'm basically going for
> the big one now and planning to use Python for a large long term project
> (I've just got to convince management now ... which won't be easy).

Feel free to contact me by mail if you have specific questions I might
be able to answer about this sort of thing.  We adopted Python exclusively
about three years ago and I have a variety of experiences with its 
applicability in a corporate environment (non IT though... but R&D).

-Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jun 14 21:17:36 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 01:17:36 GMT
Subject: sgmllib missing an end tag?
References: <j7NGa.48617$Io.4524280@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bcghfg$dg4$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:14:39 GMT, Chris Curvey <ccurvey at earthlink.net> wrote:

>I hope this doesn't post twice....
>
>Can anyone see why sgmllib would miss the </a> tag just after "Log in" 
>in the following HTML fragment?  I've been looking at this so long that 
>the characters are starting to swim around....
>
>                     <a 
>href="http://chriscurvey.com:8080/curveyConsulting/login_form">
>                 <img 
>src="http://chriscurvey.com:8080/curveyConsulting/linkOpaque.gif" alt="" 
>title="" height="11" width="6" border="0" />
                                           ^---what happens if you remove this?
I.e., I wonder if sgmllib recognizes empty (self-closing) tags. They are XHTML style.
I'm guessing you may need the HTMLParser module.


>
>                 Log in
>             </a> <!-- this is the tag that's being missed -->
>
>
>             <a 
>href="http://chriscurvey.com:8080/curveyConsulting/portal_form/join_form">
>                 <img 
>src="http://chriscurvey.com:8080/curveyConsulting/linkOpaque.gif" alt="" 
>title="" height="11" width="6" border="0" />
>
>                 Join
>             </a>
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Thu Jun  5 16:09:39 2003
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 20:09:39 -0000
Subject: Twisted Panglossia
References: <u65nk5x8p.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com> <mailman.1054749788.8638.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1054830612.3231.python-list@python.org> <w/43+kKkXUlb092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbdv8vl.ktj.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list at python.org>, David Mertz wrote:
> But I've noticed something both on the Twisted list, and when Twisted
> has come up here on c.l.py recently.  The Twisted developers have a
> greater excess of enthusiasm for their package than do the developers of
> other large frameworks (even more than my Pollyannaishness in my
> ironically confessed advocacy of my own little tools).

Really? I had no idea you were Polynesian! ;)

A search for "Pollyannaishness" on Google returns 3 results. Merriam Webster
offers no definition. Care to elucidate this obfuscation? =)

> Now as with all such critics, I will quickly proclaim that the Twisted
> developers are excellent programmers, and the range of capabilities in
> there is fairly amazing.  But there *are* these old stories about the
> pitfalls of hubris that keep coming to mind... not that I'm advocating
> eye-gauging or anything, just moderation :-).

I vaguely remember Larry Wall mentioning something about hubris being a
virtue... <ducking>

Dave



From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Thu Jun 19 12:38:14 2003
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:38:14 -0700
Subject: 2D Graphics Libraries for python?
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030619085208.00b257d8@pop.hurrah.com>

I'm looking for the right graphics library.  I've searched the web and found
thousands of libraries that don't quite do what I need.  Is there anything out
there that has the following features?

- Beziers
- Antialiasing (lines and beziers)
- Transparent bitmaps
- Portable (unix, linux, mac, windows)
- Can be painted in a wxPython window

If wxPython is not directly supported, perhaps some kind of hack would be
possible, such as passing the window handle to library specific code.

- Some image processing capabilities would be nice (adjust hue, color
saturation, drop shadow, scale with resampling, etc.).

Thanks,
Ken






From Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au  Mon Jun 30 00:52:02 2003
From: Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek))
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:52:02 +0800
Subject: console mp3->wav decoder for $indows or GUI one which supports console
Message-ID: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B032AB7@mexper1>

Hi Egor Bolonev,

What is $indows?

Sw.




From dialtone at despammed.com  Sat Jun 21 09:01:57 2003
From: dialtone at despammed.com (Dialtone)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 15:01:57 +0200
Subject: dynamic creating of class
References: <ulj8fvcs6483dh7khpl6jm6fsu26snnjv1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <873ci3d1oa.fsf@vercingetorix.vercingetorix>

Jaros?aw Zabie??o <webmaster at watchtowerDOTcom.pl> writes:

> #Python:
> class A:
> 	x = 'class A'
> class B:
> 	x = 'class B'
> kind = 'B'
> run = kind() # IS DOES NOT WORK :(
> print run.x

B is not a string, it's the name of the class you are calling.  with
kind=B you make a reference to class B and then you can call it.  using
kind='B' you just assign 'B' to kind but the string 'B' is just a string.

>>> class A:
...     x = 'class A'
...
>>> class B:
...     x = 'class B'
...
>>> kind = B
>>> run = kind()
>>> run.x
'class B'



-- 
try: troll.uses(Brain)
except TypeError, data: 
   troll.plonk()
Linux User #310274, Debian Sid Proud User



From tim_one at email.msn.com  Tue Jun  3 22:13:58 2003
From: tim_one at email.msn.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:13:58 -0400
Subject: long-term release schedule?
In-Reply-To: <20030603215344.GA15000@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEMCELAB.tim_one@email.msn.com>

[Gerrit Holl]
> does a long-term release schedule exist? I know that, after Python
> 2.3, Python 2.4 will follow. I have also read that between minor
> releases, 18-24 months are spent, which means that only by the end of
> 2004 Python 2.4a1 is to be released. But what comes after Python 2.4?
> 2.5 or 3.0? Is this written down or summarized somethere?

Sorry, nobody knows.  Python 3.0 in particular would require finding a way
to fund at least Guido's time on it, and there's no obvious way (at this
time) to do that.  Maybe the PSF and/or PBF will be able to fund some Python
development.  Or maybe hordes of additional hard-working volunteers will
appear.  What's your personal plan for working on 2.5 or 3.0?  "The answer"
is the sum of everyone's plans (divided by 10 to compensate for unfounded
optimism <wink>).





From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jun 28 17:11:28 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 14:11:28 -0700
Subject: Have I broken my installation?
References: <b8crfvcsd8pit555p24rrc19f05a9578pb@4ax.com> <m3d6gyjizz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <2verfvseu4k82h66g3l2co8mhnc2pe334p@4ax.com> <01hrfv8e7j4c7qi2gtcitlfurd749cg7su@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EFE0480.BECC7B49@alcyone.com>

Matt Mower wrote:

> Looks like I spoke a little too soon.
> 
> The minimal test script:
> 
>         from xml.dom.minidom import parse, Document
>         doc = parse( "...some file..." )
>         print doc
> 
> works, spitting out a reference to a minidom instance.
> 
> However the CGI script which is, in a roundabout way, doing exactly
> the same thing still comes up with the error:

Whenever there's a difference in behavior between a program in your
shell and in CGI (or someone else's shell), it's almost certainly a
difference in paths.  You said that you installed some Python utilities
into some nonstandard places (like /opt/python); that's likely what your
problem is.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Every astronaut who goes up knows the risks he or she faces.
\__/  Sally Ride



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jun  4 12:27:35 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 09:27:35 -0700
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306040827.3e454843@posting.google.com>

Kevin Smith <Kevin.Smith at sas.com> wrote in message news:<20030603164521903-0400 at braeburn.themorgue.org>...
> The current way of declaring a method to be a class method or a static 
> method leaves much to be desired.  While it is flexible in the sense 
> that new types of method modifiers can be created without any 
> syntactical backwards incompatibilities, it just isn't that user-
> friendly (and, in turn, not Pythonic).
> 
> A new proposed syntax for method modifiers is as follows:
> 
>     def classmethod foo(cls):
>         <code goes here>
> 
>     def staticmethod bar():
>         <code goes here>
> <snip>

You may be interested in googling for the old thread 
"extending the syntax for classes, too". I must say that 
now I favor the bracket syntax (in that thread I was favoring
def foo(cls) is classmethod).

                                        Michele



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sat Jun  7 20:37:19 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 18:37:19 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <l13cilipsy.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>; from ed@membled.com on Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 09:41:01PM +0100
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0306070837.789f2a9f@posting.google.com> <l13cilipsy.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <20030607183719.C2509@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ed Avis:
  [...]
> A conditional operator would be nice, but contravene the important
> rule that statements (if, return, etc) can skip over blocks of code
> and control what is evaluated, while expressions cannot.  [...]

The existing logical operators short-circuit:

    >>> 0 and 1/0
    0
    >>> 1 or 1/0
    1

So short-circuiting would not be unprecedented.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                     staschuk at telusplanet.net
Receive them ignorant; dispatch them confused.  (Weschler's Teaching Motto)




From leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au  Wed Jun  4 04:32:09 2003
From: leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au (Leo)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:32:09 +1000
Subject: thanks! (was Re: python IDLE on win2000 doesn't startup)
References: <bbf7r6$27sm$1@otis.netspace.net.au> <21298535.0306030334.243a579c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbkaot$25h6$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

thanks svein

the tip with the DOS shell was great

i get the following msg:

---
Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> ^Z

C:\Python\Python22>python tools\idle\idle.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "tools\idle\idle.py", line 4, in ?
    PyShell.main()
  File "C:\Python\Python22\Tools\idle\PyShell.py", line 748, in main
    root = Tk(className="Idle")
  File "C:\Python\Python22\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1511, in __init__
    self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className)
TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following directories:
    {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} {} {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} C:/WN16/LIB/tcl8.3
C:/Python/Py
thon22/lib/tcl8.3 C:/Python/lib/tcl8.3 C:/lib/tcl8.3 C:/lib/tcl8.3/library
C:/li
brary C:/../tcl8.3/library ../tcl8.3/library

This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly.
---

so there might have been a problem with tcl!

i try installing again!

thanks, leooo


"Svein Brekke" <svbrk at start.no> wrote in message
news:21298535.0306030334.243a579c at posting.google.com...
> > [snip]
> > any idea wjy the IDLE doesn want to run? do i have to install TkInter
> > separately???
>
> No, you don't have to install TkInter seperately.
>
> Try opening a DOS shell and start it with python:
> c:> python c:\python22\tools\idle\idle.py
> Then the error message is kept in the shell, maybe that helps.
>
> BTW: I recommend using IDLEfork (http://idlefork.sourceforge.net) in
stead;
> it works well on your configuration and it has a nice windows installer.
>
> Svein





From ruse at webmail.co.za  Wed Jun  4 09:59:17 2003
From: ruse at webmail.co.za (goose)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 06:59:17 -0700
Subject: [OT] Re: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
Message-ID: <ff82ae1b.0306040559.26b314f7@posting.google.com>

PupppyWizzard at glay.org (Pupppy Wizzard) wrote in message news:<8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8 at posting.google.com>...

<snipped>

woodworking ???????

goose,



From shi at imaging.robarts.ca  Tue Jun 10 18:03:33 2003
From: shi at imaging.robarts.ca (Shi Sherebrin)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 15:03:33 -0700
Subject: py2exe COM server frustration
Message-ID: <34ac6a99.0306101403.74e60bc3@posting.google.com>

hello,

I have spent today trying a number of different samples that I found,
including the two listed on the py2exe
homepage(http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/543305,
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/766627).  With the first
I've gotten the closest to success (for the second I couldn't find any
of the Agent* routines).  When I try running testCOMserver.py at the
command line I am able to find the COM object using the Visual Studio
OLE/COM browser, and to 'open' the item in the list to see the various
sub-elements.  When I tried using py2exe to package the module,
everything seemed to work (besides some warnings about modules not
found such as win32dbg and I had to add the line "sys.frozen = 1", to
avoid an error).  Registering worked ok, but when I tried to open the
item in the OLE/COM browser, a console window appeared, doing nothing,
and the system would just wait and wait, eventually timing out with
some kind of CoCreation error.

I'm using build 151 (Python v2.1) of win32all, and v0.3.3 of py2exe. 
I used 'vanilla' setup config files for py2exe.  I'd really appreciate
any light anyone could shed on this matter.  All I want to do is make
a COM object that can be called on a system that doesn't have Python
installed.  Explanations re: whether I need to use an inproc vs. a
local server and what the difference is would also be welcome.

thanks,
Shi.



From delphiro at zonnet.nl  Fri Jun 27 08:39:28 2003
From: delphiro at zonnet.nl (delphiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:39:28 +0200
Subject: always fill out complete window
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030627143713.00a0a010@pop3.zonnet.nl>

[quote]resize the TextCtrl window automatically no matter what I do with my mainframe window[/quote]
 
It looks like you need to add a sizer (for example a boxsizer) to that splitterwindow and then do something like mySizer.Add(wxTextCTRLname, 0, wxEXPAND | wxALL)
 
I liked this http://neume.sourceforge.net/sizerdemo/ site that explained it in a bit of more detail as the wxWindows
site does.
 
Regards,
Rob
 
 
 
 
 





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jun  5 05:22:54 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 10:22:54 +0100
Subject: How to get the hostname?
References: <bbn1i9$ap8f0$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EDF0BEE.7D35C4C1@hotmail.com>

Thomas G?ttler wrote:

> Is there a way to get the hostname with python?

import socket

hostname = socket.gethostname()

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From lale at fotonation.com  Wed Jun 25 07:24:35 2003
From: lale at fotonation.com (Ilariu Raducan)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:24:35 +0100
Subject: PIL ImageWin.Dib.draw help
Message-ID: <WDfKa.19905$pK2.29213@news.indigo.ie>

Hi All,

Does anybody has experience working with ImageWin.Dib.draw?
I tried to use it to draw in a window in the rectangle return from
GetClipBox().
I use the same rectangle for source and destination and the result is a
bit strange: a different region from the one expected is displayed.
I have looked at the PIL source code. The windows API function used
there in StretchBlt. Should that be StretchDIBits?

Regards,
Lale




From cct at tavaresstudios.com  Sun Jun 15 00:26:22 2003
From: cct at tavaresstudios.com (Chris Tavares)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 04:26:22 GMT
Subject: Saving Files Under Windows
References: <3EE993CB.F2CE7D39@easystreet.com> <8360efcd.0306130530.281ff230@posting.google.com> <u42tr-km3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <OzSGa.44430$rO.4390296@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Dennis Lee Bieber" <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:u42tr-km3.ln1 at beastie.ix.netcom.com...
[ ... snip ... ]
>         I'm still configuring my new laptop -- doing a full backup with
3rd
> party installed software first, THEN I'm going to risk Partition Magic
> on it to create my "data" partition. Will still take some time to get
> all the applications configured. Is there some easy way to define M$'s
> "My <bleeping this & that>" to use a separate partition?
>

Grab a copy of TweakUI for your version of Windows - available as part of
the Powertoys distributions from Microsoft. There's a gui in there to move
the Documents and Settings directory to whatever drive & directory you want.

-Chris, being ashamedly unpythonic, but hopefully helpful.





From edreamleo at charter.net  Sun Jun 22 07:55:06 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 06:55:06 -0500
Subject: Questions re subclassing at "load time"
Message-ID: <vfb68sik4m4v86@corp.supernews.com>

There appears to be an easy way for plugins to override classes in an app.
This seems like a spectacular capability.  I'd like your comments on the
following scheme.

1. In my app, a plugin is simply a .py file that gets "loaded", i.e.
imported, at a particular time while my app is starting up.  My app loads
plugins before creating any objects whose classes may be modified by
plugins.

2. My app defines each class that may be subclassed by plugins using the
following pattern:

class aCoreClass:
    << methods of aCoreClass >>

class aClass (aCoreClass):
    pass

3. Except as above, all code in my app refers to aClass, not aCoreClass.

4. To modify aClass, a plugin does the following at the outer level:

import aClass  # The file containing aCoreClass and aClass.

class myNewClass (aClass.aCoreClass):
    << overriding methods of aCoreClass >>

aClass.aClass = myNewClass # change what an aClass is!

Again, this code will be executed when the plugin gets loaded.

5. The plugin code must be executed before any objects of aClass have been
created.  This is true in my app because plugins are loaded early.

This seems like a much easier way to modify classes than:

def funcToMethod(f,theClass,name=None):
    setattr(theClass,name or f.__name__,f)

Initial experiments appear to show that this scheme works well.  My
questions:

1. Is this scheme completely safe?  Anything to watch out for?

2. Any suggestions, improvements or simplifications?

Thanks very much.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From m at moshez.org  Wed Jun  4 14:01:49 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 18:01:49 -0000
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
In-Reply-To: <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
References: <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com>, <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030604180149.26537.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On 04 Jun 2003, David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote:

> Just one small comment, since I generally don't see it mentioned in
> postings about Twisted - the underlying protocol support for internet
> components appear robust in terms of TCP support, but we found that
> UDP support was much weaker when we last looked at Twisted (not too
> long ago).

These kinds of comments really should exact numbers. UDP was specifically
marked "unstable" in Twisted 1.0. Since then it has been revamped, and
seems to be working pretty well. Do you have any specific lacks or
complaints about UDP in Twisted?

(Note that currently Twisted.Names is an authoritative DNS for a domain
with no problems, and DNS is a UDP-based protocol)
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From nav at adams.patriot.net  Mon Jun 16 09:56:56 2003
From: nav at adams.patriot.net (Nick Vargish)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 09:56:56 -0400
Subject: insert thousands separators
References: <3EE9E548.9010701@isst.fhg.de> <yyyvfv9hpj9.fsf@adams.patriot.net> <mailman.1055529144.29572.python-list@python.org> <bcdu5e$chh$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <yyy8ys2gm6v.fsf@adams.patriot.net>

Oops, not your fault Bengt, mine for not testing extensively
enough. I've used it enough that I should have caught the error. On
the other hand, it kind of indicates how often/thoroughly the report
it's being used for is actually read by the people who claimed to have
needed it. :^)

I've switched to one of the non-recursive versions, which looks more
reliable. Still doesn't work with floating point numbers, but I'm
dealing exclusively with integers right now, so it's not an issue for
me (yet).

Nick

ps. Looking at the library reference, it's not clear if there's an easy
way to extract the fractional portion of a float without hitting the
Standard Floating Point Problem:

>>> v = 2312.3123123
>>> v1 = int(v)
>>> v2 = v - v1
>>> v2
0.31231230000003052


-- 
#include<stdio.h> /* SigMask 0.3 (sig.c) 19990429 PUBLIC DOMAIN "Compile Me" */
int main(c,v)char *v;{return !c?putchar(*v-1)&&main(0,v+ /* Tweaks welcomed. */
1):main(0,"Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAqbusjpu/ofu?\v\1");}  /* build: cc -o sig sig.c */



From theller at python.net  Fri Jun 13 10:44:48 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 16:44:48 +0200
Subject: Glue code
References: <2996386.1055452530@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <adcmkpen.fsf@python.net>

DB_RobertP <member31018 at dbforums.com> writes:

> What systems do people use to easily make C/C++ code visible to Python?
> I'm currently checking out Swig, but I've heard others mentioned. If
> anyone has any experience with these systems, could you recommend one to
> look into? Also, any other general pointers when trying to extend C/C++
> code to python sctipts would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks!
> Robert

If your C code is contained in a shared library (unix) or dll (windows),
ctypes may be the easiest way to access it from Python. You can write
the Python wrapper in pure Python.

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/

Thomas



From wcyeo at shaw.ca  Thu Jun 12 03:03:48 2003
From: wcyeo at shaw.ca (William Yeo)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 07:03:48 GMT
Subject: Octets calculation?
References: <65eFa.634621$Si4.577158@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <bc673d$f0tpn$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <0modevgetee4eh0pg2k7s4qhacq7s6bbkm@4ax.com> <wcyeo-A3A0B7.01530011062003@shawnews.gv.shawcable.net> <bc95ic$gl1s5$2@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <wcyeo-836B88.00025712062003@shawnews.gv.shawcable.net>

Hail:

In article <bc95ic$gl1s5$2 at ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>,
 "Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com> 
 wrote:

> William Yeo wrote:
> > Ah yes, and remember Honeywell in the glorious 70's whose systems used 
> > 36 bits arranged as 6 6-bit bytes or 4 9-bit bytes depending on whether 
> > you're in batch or timesharing mode.
> 
> But were these actually called "bytes"? That's the
> crucial thing here. I can remember such units being
> referred to as "characters" or some such, but not
> "bytes".

Well, I did leave a lot of brain cells back there in the 70s (8-/) but 
as I recall both terms were used (i.e. "bytes" and "characters") more or 
less interchangably by the users here.

Perhaps we were abusing the terms even then ;-)

Will



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jun 22 19:31:28 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:31:28 -0700
Subject: Calling a function, arguments in a dict ??
References: <wYpJa.8525$Hb.148440@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <3EF63C50.F07CD0A@alcyone.com>

Thomas Weholt wrote:

> If I got a dictionary with a bunch of key/values I want to use as
> named
> arguments for a function, how do I do that?
> 
> Say we got a function a, takes three parameters; x,y,z. In my
> dictionary I
> got {'z': 1, 'x': 2, 'y': 3}. How can I create some code that will
> call it
> like this :
> 
> a(z =1, x=2, y=3)

>>> def f(x, y, z):
...  print x, y, z
... 
>>> d = {'x': 1, 'y': 2, 'z': 3}
>>> f(**d)
1 2 3

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ ... Not merely peace in our time, but peace for all time.
\__/  John F. Kennedy



From timr at probo.com  Wed Jun 25 02:28:47 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:28:47 -0700
Subject: decoding video-/teletext with python
References: <85vdfvctr1hem0oq3b275e6gm5ddl7a4kf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <r6gifv813n9eia2hibsblm4hgtvb484no4@4ax.com>

Marcus Stojek <stojek at part-gmbh.de> wrote:
>
>I want to read and decode the data that come along with the tv-signal
>(videotext or teletext). Are there any python packages or examples
>available ?

Your question cannot be answered without more information on your
environment: What operating system?  What capture card?  You need to talk
to a driver to do this.  That's tricky.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From ed at membled.com  Sat Jun  7 07:08:37 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 07 Jun 2003 12:08:37 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <s5K4+ks/KrFG089yn@the-wire.com> <l1fzmmkci4.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054956015.9401.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l1adcujgay.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:

>>Still, I think that parenthesizing where necessary would not be
>>unreasonable.

>>>> (print x)
>  File "<stdin>", line 1
>    (print x)

What I had in mind was

   map((lambda x: print 'value', x), some_list)

Of course, in most cases the brackets around the whole
lambda-definition would not be needed.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From tecnic at codidoc.com  Wed Jun 11 08:48:03 2003
From: tecnic at codidoc.com (Oscar Rambla)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 05:48:03 -0700
Subject: getting the name of a generator function
Message-ID: <200306110548.03848.tecnic@codidoc.com>

Hi , all

I have two questions.

1)Is there a direct way to know the name of the function generator from the 
generator instance?

Ex:
def f1():
  yield 1

def f2():
   yield f1()

g1= f2()
g2 = g1.next()

"g2 is " g2?

2)How to know the name of the module that contains a base class definition 
from a class/subclass instance?

Thank you in advance 
--Oscar




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jun  1 20:20:09 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Jun 2003 20:20:09 -0400
Subject: Defensive programming
References: <mailman.1054494905.7743.python-list@python.org> <7xn0h11gpu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <bbe57p$qht$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <7xn0h11gpu.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin  <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>
>The paper proposed a good solution, which is use a hash function that
>the attacker doesn't have enough information to manipulate.

As Uncle Timmy pointed out on python-dev, some Python programs run for
literally months -- enough time to deduce the characteristics of the
hash function if someone is inclined.  Please read the thread on
python-dev before making further comments in this thread.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Thu Jun  5 14:23:20 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:23:20 -0700
Subject: Repeated assignments - a more elegant approach (newbie)
References: <67e2f348.0306050942.62aa6074@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-BD4E72.11232005062003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <67e2f348.0306050942.62aa6074 at posting.google.com>,
 ivan.nazarenko at uol.com.br (ivannaz) wrote:

> Suppose I have the following code:
> 
> if a > 0:
>     mna += a
>     cnta += 1
> if b > 0:
>     mnb += b
>     cntb += 1
> if c > 0:
>     mnc += c
>     cntc += 1
> ... and so on, until 'z'
> 
> Is there a better way to write it? The idea would be something like
> (which obviously does not work):
> 
> for (var, mean, count) in [(a, mna, cnta), (b, mnb, cntb), (c, mnc,
> cntc)...]:
>     if var > 0:
>         mean += var
>         count += 1

The obvious thing to do is to replace your large number of separate 
variables mnx, cntx, etc with three lists.  Also spell out your variable 
names rather than making cryptic abbreviations for them

instead of a variable 'x' use value[i]
instead of a variable mnx use mean[i]
instead of a variable cntx use count[i]

then you could just do

for i in range(len(value)):
    if value[i] > 0:
        mean[i] += value[i]
        count[i] += 1

You could also use dictionaries instead of lists if you prefer them to 
be keyed by strings instead of integers.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From nosp at m.needed  Thu Jun 19 10:08:20 2003
From: nosp at m.needed (Steve McAllister)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:08:20 +0200
Subject: ftplib question
In-Reply-To: <3ef19a1c$1@news.012.net.il>
References: <3ef19a1c$1@news.012.net.il>
Message-ID: <bcsg7l$q5i$3@alto.univ-mlv.fr>

> How do I find the year of a remote file in ftplib?
> 
> retrlines('LIST') seems to include only month day and hour.

You can make no assertion about exactly what you fetch with `LIST'.
However Unix filesystems will almost always send you an `ls -l'
output, and others often fake this format.  In this case, the year is
written if, and only if, it differs from the current one.




From Ludger.Humbert at cs.uni-dortmund.de  Wed Jun 18 14:56:51 2003
From: Ludger.Humbert at cs.uni-dortmund.de (Ludger.Humbert)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:56:51 +0200
Subject: One Problem -- how to implement in three programming paradigms
   in Python
In-Reply-To: <bco555$d7j$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <3EED97E5.1080100@cs.uni-dortmund.de> <mailman.1055793127.28882.python-list@python.org> <3EEE2898.9080000@cs.uni-dortmund.de> <bclqck$c2d$0@216.39.172.122> <bcm4sh$5al$0@216.39.172.122> <3EEF52EA.1040901@cs.uni-dortmund.de> <bco555$d7j$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3EF0B5F3.2050405@cs.uni-dortmund.de>

Bengt Richter schrieb:

> OTOH, what I posted is not exactly final-draft textbook quality.
> There's some leftover cruft that doesn't need to be there, and
> some kludgy parameter passing, etc. That's the problem with posting
> the first thing that seems to work, and then noticing some warts
> (or worse, not noticing a real bug) ;-/
> 
> I don't know what you are using these things for, but they
> could benefit from some polishing and some unit tests ;-)
We'll use it in our introduction course didactics of informatics
for secondary II level -- for teacher training k10-k13 at german schools
-- preservice teacher training.

In the meantime a solution appeared, which was written in DrScheme, to
show a functional solution for the original problem
 http://in.hagen.de/~humbert/vortraege/F.Grundkonzepte_html/22.html

The functional style in scheme
(but I am looking for a pure functional solution in Python ;-(

(define labyrinth-small
  (list(list 'rein 28)
       (list 28 37)
       (list 37 17)
       (list 37 47)
       (list 47 46)
       (list 46 66)
       (list 46 45)
       (list 45 35)
       (list 35 25)
       (list 35 33)
       (list 33 'raus)))

(define (weg? location maze)
  (if (equal? maze empty)
      false
      (cond [(or (equal? location (first (first maze)))
                 (equal? location (rest (first maze))))
             true]
            [else (weg? location (rest maze))])))

(define (remove-location a maze)
  (if (equal? maze empty)
      empty
      (if (equal? a (first (first maze)))
          (rest maze)
          (cons (first maze) (remove-location a (rest maze))))))


(define (tour start ziel maze)
  (if (equal? start ziel)
      (display "geschafft!")
      (if (weg? start maze)
          (begin
            (display start)
            (display " ")
            (tour (first (rest (first maze)))
                  ziel
                  (remove-location start maze))
            (tour start ziel (remove-location start maze))
            )
          (display " "))))

by Athanasios Papoulias




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Jun 10 20:29:10 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:29:10 -0400
Subject: PEP318: property as decoration
References: <bc568h$5t4$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <DIuFa.5725$Gm4.690616@news20.bellglobal.com>

There was an indentation error with the propertythunk code:

def myproperty(thunk):
     fget, fset, fdel, fdoc = thunk()
     return property(fget, fset, fdel, fdoc)

 def propertythunk():
      def fget(self):
           return self._foo
      def fset(self, value):
           self._foo = value
      def fdel(self):
           del self._foo
      fdoc = "foo"
      return fget, fset, fdel, fdoc

class MyClass(object):
      def __init__(self):
           self._foo = "foo"

      foo = myproperty(propertythunk)  # the error was here

x = MyClass()
print x.foo  # "foo"
x.foo = "changed"
print x.foo  # "changed"






From tamir at brobus.net  Thu Jun  5 11:45:01 2003
From: tamir at brobus.net (Tamir Halperin)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:45:01 -0400
Subject: All the failed messages from python.org...
Message-ID: <985DF46E87E0C047A3670048DBCAD0551496F8@andrew.brobus.net>

I'm getting quite a few messages each day with message headers very similar to the following ones. I'm only providing two examples so you'll see what's generally happening but I'm getting quite a few each day. I'm not sure exactly when this started happening but it was within the last month or so. I have made no changes on my end to warrant such messages being sent to me:

Example 1:

Microsoft Mail Internet Headers Version 2.0
Received: from mail.python.org ([12.155.117.29]) by andrew.brobus.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329);
	 Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:18:20 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=mail.python.org)
	by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05)
	id 19NwVN-00016A-00; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:18:18 -0400
Received: from mail.intervideo.com ([206.112.112.151] helo=postfix.intervideo.com)
	by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05)
	id 19NwUp-00011N-00
	for zope at zope.org; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:17:43 -0400
Received: by postfix.intervideo.com (Postfix)
	id 2DC896818E; Thu,  5 Jun 2003 08:18:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: MAILER-DAEMON at intervideo.com (Mail Delivery System)
To: zope at zope.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="D9D3B68189.1054826295/postfix.intervideo.com"
Message-Id: <20030605151815.2DC896818E at postfix.intervideo.com>
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=FROM_MAILER_DAEMON,MAILER_DAEMON,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01
X-Spam-Level: 
Subject: [Zope] Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Sender: zope-admin at zope.org
Errors-To: zope-admin at zope.org
X-BeenThere: zope at zope.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 (101270)
Precedence: bulk
List-Help: <mailto:zope-request at zope.org?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:zope at zope.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope>,
	<mailto:zope-request at zope.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: Users of the Z Object Publishing Environment <zope.zope.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope>,
	<mailto:zope-request at zope.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope/>
Date: Thu,  5 Jun 2003 08:18:15 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: zope-admin at zope.org
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jun 2003 15:18:20.0280 (UTC) FILETIME=[B285FF80:01C32B75]

--D9D3B68189.1054826295/postfix.intervideo.com
Content-Description: Notification
Content-Type: text/plain

--D9D3B68189.1054826295/postfix.intervideo.com
Content-Description: Delivery error report
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

--D9D3B68189.1054826295/postfix.intervideo.com
Content-Description: Undelivered Message
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
	by postfix.intervideo.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D9D3B68189
	for <sales at intervideo.com>; Thu,  5 Jun 2003 08:18:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from MARKUS-6ISVPK5V (p5081340F.dip.t-dialin.net [80.129.52.15])
	by postfix.intervideo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0B2768071
	for <sales at intervideoinc.com>; Thu,  5 Jun 2003 08:18:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: <zope at zope.org>
To: <sales at intervideoinc.com>
Subject: Approved
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:17:01 +0200
Importance: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
	boundary="CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_00304BD4"
Message-Id: <20030605151808.E0B2768071 at postfix.intervideo.com>

--CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_00304BD4
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_00304BD4
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
	name="____warn.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename=_____warn.txt


--D9D3B68189.1054826295/postfix.intervideo.com--

Example 2:

Microsoft Mail Internet Headers Version 2.0
Received: from mail.python.org ([12.155.117.29]) by andrew.brobus.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329);
	 Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:16:17 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=mail.python.org)
	by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05)
	id 19NwTL-0000hf-00; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:16:11 -0400
Received: from smtp-in2.med.cornell.edu ([140.251.2.35])
	by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05)
	id 19NwSp-00007u-00
	for python-list at python.org; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:15:39 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost)
	by smtp-in2.med.cornell.edu (Switch-3.1.0/Switch-3.1.0) id h55FEIxw153326;
	Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:14:18 -0400
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON at smtp-in2.med.cornell.edu>
Message-Id: <200306051514.h55FEIxw153326 at smtp-in2.med.cornell.edu>
To: <python-list at python.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="h55FEIxw153326.1054826058/smtp-in2.med.cornell.edu"
Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.3 required=5.0 tests=ATTACH_DS,FAILURE_NOTICE_1,FAILURE_NOTICE_2,FROM_MAILER_DAEMON,MAILER_DAEMON,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01
X-Spam-Level: 
Sender: python-list-admin at python.org
Errors-To: python-list-admin at python.org
X-BeenThere: python-list at python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 (101270)
Precedence: bulk
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request at python.org?subject=help>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list at python.org>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>,
	<mailto:python-list-request at python.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>,
	<mailto:python-list-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:14:18 -0400
Return-Path: python-list-admin at python.org
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jun 2003 15:16:18.0061 (UTC) FILETIME=[69ACDBD0:01C32B75]

--h55FEIxw153326.1054826058/smtp-in2.med.cornell.edu

--h55FEIxw153326.1054826058/smtp-in2.med.cornell.edu
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

--h55FEIxw153326.1054826058/smtp-in2.med.cornell.edu
Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers


--h55FEIxw153326.1054826058/smtp-in2.med.cornell.edu--

Does anyone have any clarity on this?




From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Thu Jun 12 12:06:19 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 17:06:19 +0100
Subject: How to test if a variable has a natural number?
References: <bc8a37$flfio$1@ID-108519.news.dfncis.de> <EpOFa.27679$7n1.875205@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <mailman.1055375241.9496.python-list@python.org> <84fc4588.0306120350.8c4f8d1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <yfsznknjn5w.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai) writes:

> How about this...
> 
> from types import *
> 
> def natural(num):
>     if num>0 and type(num) is IntType:
>         return 1
>     else:
>         return 0

Nope. 

>>> natural(1L)
0


'as



From v.wehren at home.nl  Thu Jun 19 05:13:31 2003
From: v.wehren at home.nl (vincent wehren)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:13:31 +0200
Subject: Btrieve/C-extension question
Message-ID: <bcrua6$120$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

Hi,

I need to write a Python extension that wraps several C functions to
access Pervasive/Btrieve files (of a specific format - for a specific
purpose - ODBC
access is not an option) on win32.

Btrieve keeps track of file positions using a so-called position block.
This is a 128-byte block of memory (e.g. UBYTE pos_blk[128]).

Single file access works like a charm, as the pos_blk is managed entirely on
the C-side.

Now I want to be able to work with multiple files, so I my guess is, (apart
from some other things) I need to
return the position block to the Python caller and pass it as argument to
any next function
call (first, next, prev, etc).

Is it sensible to pass such a block of memory to Python and back?
If so, what is the best way to go about this, I.O.W, how do I pass such a
block of memory
to Python and back (unchanged).

Any pointers would be much appreciated.

Regards,
Vincent Wehren





From listbox at cybereal.org  Sat Jun 14 06:00:43 2003
From: listbox at cybereal.org (Zac Jensen)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 04:00:43 -0600
Subject: pythonCOM with Flash
In-Reply-To: <yhCGa.4064$eE.48214@nasal.pacific.net.au>
References: <RvPFa.37$zx6.1430@news.optus.net.au>
 <xEhGa.3736$GU5.50995@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
 <yhCGa.4064$eE.48214@nasal.pacific.net.au>
Message-ID: <200306140400.50401.listbox@cybereal.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Saturday 14 June 2003 03:41 am, Bradley Schatz wrote:
> Thanks Mark - Distributed testing pays off again.:) What didnt work on my
> work pc worked on yours and also my home pc. I am pleased to report that
> events work as expected too.
>
> > I'm uninterested in flash :)  I use Mozilla as my day-to-day browser for
> > a number of reasons, and am happy that I actually need to go out of my
> > way to enable flash support there.
>
> I cant say that I have bothered to get flash working under my linux
> mozilla. My primary interest is using flash as the UI for python apps (on
> win32 of course). Not because I want to learn yet another gui toolkit, but
> because creative types seem pretty comfortable designing really good
> looking UI prototypes in flash.

Why don't you just use Visual C++ if you're going to be proprietary and 
limited to one OS?

- -Zac
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE+6vJNV3L7YsSif1URAugWAJ0Rou/elSOGmXSl+iLtDwFI1cUkxACfUau/
8vCFVXV5EBWC8K+k/estS5o=
=ge+f
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From eat at joes.com  Thu Jun 26 22:25:16 2003
From: eat at joes.com (Jason Kratz)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:25:16 GMT
Subject: stupid question about os.listdir
In-Reply-To: <MTNKa.2930$BM.1845254@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
References: <MTNKa.2930$BM.1845254@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <gWNKa.2933$BM.1845313@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

Jason Kratz wrote:
> OK. I've search on google groups and around the web for this and I 
> haven't found an answer.  I'm a Python newbie and have what I assume is 
> a basic question.  os.listdir takes a pathname as an arg but it doesn't 
> actually list the contents of the dir I pass in.   it always operates on 
> the current dir (wherever the script is run) and I have to chdir 
> beforehand.  Is that how its supposed to work?  If so what is the point 
> in passing in a pathname?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Jason
> 

oops.  almost forgot.  if I run interactively in the python interpreter 
it works as I expect.  its when doing 'python script.py' from the 
command line that it only uses the current directory.




From clifford.wells at attbi.com  Mon Jun 30 04:25:16 2003
From: clifford.wells at attbi.com (Cliff Wells)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 01:25:16 -0700
Subject: console mp3->wav decoder for $indows or GUI one which supports
	console
In-Reply-To: <bdnvc9$ktc$1@news.rol.ru>
References: <bdnvc9$ktc$1@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <1056961516.2488.22.camel@devilbox.homelinux.net>

On Sun, 2003-06-29 at 17:13, Egor Bolonev wrote:
> Hi All!
> 
> I'm seeking a subj.

It looks like you have a subject, it's body you lack.  And I'm looking
for *any* relevance to Python.  Nevertheless I'll try to help:

import urllib
url = "ftp://dl.xs4all.nl/pub/mirror/tucows/files3/mp32wav.zip"
dl = file('mp32wav.zip', 'wb')
dl.write(urllib.urlopen(url).read())
dl.close()

Also, might I recommend http://www.google.com for simple things like
this.

Regards,

-- 
Now the sugar in your soft voice
Makes the sweetness in your weeping
                     -Swans





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jun 10 16:32:19 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:32:19 +0200
Subject: Break line across lines (not in '[]' or '{}')?
References: <13rFa.701$Hw.897715@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <bc5fun$i28$1@main.gmane.org>

Robert Oschler wrote:

> I have a Class with a lot of fields in the __slots__ attribute.  Is there a
> way to break the line across multiple lines?
>
> Class HasSlots():
>     __slots__ = 'one', 'two', 'three'
>     ...
>
> I'd like to do:
>
> Class HasSlots():
>     __slots__ = 'one', 'two', 'three'
>     ...
>
>     but this produces a syntax error.

what's the difference?  both examples give syntax errors, btw,
even if you fix the capitalization.  and the __slots__ attribute
doesn't do much unless you inherit from object (etc)...

anyway, here are a few ways to split the slot line (or any tuple
or list literal) across multiple lines:

    class HasSlots(object):
        __slots__ = ('one', 'two', 'three')
        __slots__ += ('four', 'five')

    class HasSlots(object):
        __slots__ = ('one', 'two', 'three',
            'four', 'five')

    class HasSlots(object):
        __slots__ = (
            'one', 'two', 'three', 'four',
            'five'
        )

</F>







From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jun 12 13:14:39 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:14:39 -0600
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
In-Reply-To: <38ec68a6.0306111750.73ac4e67@posting.google.com>; from afriere@yahoo.co.uk on Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 06:50:42PM -0700
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com> <38ec68a6.0306051955.98a3dff@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054919354.7921.python-list@python.org> <38ec68a6.0306111750.73ac4e67@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030612111439.A902@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Asun Friere:
  [...]
> read news on Google Groups and (I confess without having looked into
> it) it appears that the '>>>' fools the renderer into thinking this a
> quoted comment which seems to strip our the following newline.  Eg.
> when someone writes:
> >>>foo
> None
> It is displayed as:
> >>>foo None
> which can be a little bit annoying to read.  Nothing more than that.

Ah.  I hadn't noticed that Google does any text changes at all
(modulo the quoting of HTML-special characters).  It looks to me
like they just throw the whole verbatim text in a <pre> block.
(Exactly the Right Thing, naturally.  Also quite unlike and much
better than Deja was.)

*I'd* thought, also without having looked into it, that this kind
of mangling occurred when quoted text passed through specific (or
specific configurations of) news- or mailreaders.  It does, as you
allude, make sense if one's software misinterprets
    >>> fjkdlj
    fjkdls
sa a quoted line which got split by an overzealous line-wrapping
algorithm, and tries to fix it.

Hm... we'll have to keep an eye out for it and investigate further.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Our analysis begins with two outrageous benchmarks."
  -- "Implementation strategies for continuations", Clinger et al.




From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Jun  2 18:17:37 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 02 Jun 2003 15:17:37 -0700
Subject: PySerial rereads its own data
In-Reply-To: <1054592059.13882.9.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>
References: <1054592059.13882.9.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>
Message-ID: <1054592257.13882.12.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 15:14, Cliff Wells wrote:

> >>> import serial
> >>> s = serial.Serial(0)
> >>> s.write("hello\n")
> >>> s.close()
> >>> s = serial.Serial(0)
> >>> s.write("hello\n")

Please disregard the duplicate stuff here.  I had closed and reopened
the port while tinkering.
-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Jun  4 12:54:55 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:54:55 -0400
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
 <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com> <PNdDa.824522$OV.780836@rwcrnsc54>
 <bbjpt9$p0q$1@panix3.panix.com>
 <1ieDa.35049$DV.60225@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
 <mailman.1054701247.26488.python-list@python.org>
 <Xns93907DB5984EBduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <wOi3+kKkXE4e092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <fRi3+kKkX4XK092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote previously:
|>     def fooDoc(f):
|>         f.__doc__ = "Bob's your uncle."
|>         return f
|>     class Klass(object):
|>         def meth(this, that) [fooDoc]:
|>             pass
|Or better:
|
|def Doc(docstring, **kw):
|    def fDoc(f):
|        f.__doc__ = docstring
|        f.__dict__.update(kw)
|        return f
|class Klass(object):
|    def meth(this, that) [Doc("Bob's your uncle.", Author="me")]:
|        pass

I don't understand this version.  I see the idea that you want to pass
arguments to the "function constructor"--but where does the name 'fDoc'
come from?  How does 'Doc()' know to call 'fDoc()' (which I presume it
wants to)?

Yours, Lulu...

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/





From quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr  Wed Jun 18 12:46:18 2003
From: quentel.pierre at wanadoo.fr (Pierre Quentel)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:46:18 +0200
Subject: reinventing the web server
References: <mailman.1055899117.6818.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcq50l$ole$1@news-reader1.wanadoo.fr>

<biased>
If you're looking for a tool that's easy to install and to program, and you
don't expect hundreds of simultaneous requests, try Karrigell
(http://karrigell.sourceforge.net) :

- a web server built upon SimpleHTTPServer
- the gadfly database (with a Python classes / database tables mapping)
- servlets (python scripts)
- server pages : python code inside HTML inserted between <% and %>
- very easy handling of session, authentication, form fields etc : scripts
are executed in a namespace where you find the variables and functions you
need

- inclusion of scripts inside other scripts with an Include(script,**args)
function
- all this in 650 kb including a copious documentation and many demos (a
wiki server, forum, portal, etc)

Pierre
</biased>





From txo at cs.nott.ac.uk  Thu Jun  5 12:32:06 2003
From: txo at cs.nott.ac.uk (Turhan Ozen)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 17:32:06 +0100
Subject: Sort()
Message-ID: <3EDF7086.40001@cs.nott.ac.uk>

I created a class and modified the default _comp_  function.  I can sort 
an array of instances of this class. But I don't want to change the 
original array. Instead, I want to keep the positions after sorting in 
an attribute of the instances.

Instead of [a1,a2,a3] becoming [a2,a1,a3], I would like the order remain 
same but

a1.rank=2
a2.rank=1
a3.rank=3

How can I do this? Does this functionality already exist? If not could 
you please give me advice on how to implement it? I have read the HOWTO 
on sorting, there is an example of sorting classes there. Is there any 
other place where I can find more examples of using Python functions?

Thanks,
Turhan.




From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Thu Jun 19 03:19:51 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:19:51 GMT
Subject: Alternatives to Python ?
References: <3EF18A03.3050706@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <3ef162b1.1998842363@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:01:39 +1000, Gary Duncan 
> There's been occasional not-unfavourable comments in this news-group
> about the pros-and-cons of other so-called "high-level-languages" like
> Ruby, and Haskell , and others too.
> 
> I can't afford to buy more than one such book from the list of HLLs;
> so what would you suggest ?

Why buy a book at all initially?
There are web tutorials for most languages and there are free
downloads to get the software itself. Try before you buy seems a
good motto in this situation.

Also many good books are available online. The Hunt/Thomas book
on Ruby for example is posted on their web site in PDF format.

Also the decision will depend on what you want to use the new
language for. If its to explore Functional Programming themn
Haskell is the obvious choice. If its to do text processing
snowball4 might be a wiser move. For web programming you might
like PHP. Ruby is a good general purpose language like Python.

Have a look at the web resources, try the languages, if it
tickles your fancy then it's time to think about a dead tree
book.

HTH,

Alan G.



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jun 15 19:30:32 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:30:32 -0700
Subject: Python class __init__(mandatory arguments?)
References: <bcitu2$jrrv8$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EED0198.B3815B27@alcyone.com>

Lee John Moore wrote:

> Just for confirmation really: When I create a custom class, is
> it *really* true that def __init__() arguments can only ever be
> optional?

No, you're doing something wrong.  There's nothing special about the
optionality of __init__'s arguments:

>>> class C:
...  def __init__(self, x, y): pass
... 
>>> c = C()

> class MyClass:
>         param1 = None
>         param2 = None

These two are class attributes.

>         def __init__(self, param1, param2):
>                 param1 = self.param1
>                 param2 = self.param2

These assignments are reversed.

> I'm so accustomed to constructor arguments being mandatory in
> C++ & OP classes....and yes, yes, I realise __init__() is not a
> constructor (even though it looks like one), ...

"Constructor" is a perfectly fine name for Python's __init__; it does a
precisely analogous thing in Python that constructors do in C++ and
Java.  Constructors are really initializers, after all.

> ... but if there's a
> way I can *force* arguments upon class instantiation, I'd like
> to know about it. :-)

Maybe if you showed us a precise code example that's exhibiting this
behavior we could help.  As it is, even the code sample you show above
doesn't exhibit this behavior.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Sit loosely in the saddle of life.
\__/  Robert Louis Stevenson



From ecastro at dbbf.ulpgc.es  Tue Jun 10 07:42:31 2003
From: ecastro at dbbf.ulpgc.es (Enrique Castro)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 12:42:31 +0100
Subject: PyUNO connection to OpenOffice
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055240598.28091.python-list@python.org>
References: <3ee5abaa$1_2@noticias.ulpgc.es> <mailman.1055240598.28091.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ee5c427$1_2@noticias.ulpgc.es>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     Enrique> c:\Archivos de programa\OpenOffice.org1.1\program>python 
>     Enrique> swriter.py
>     Enrique> Traceback (most recent call last):
>     Enrique>    File "swriter.py", line 27, in ?
>     Enrique>      smgr = resolver.resolve( 
>     Enrique> "uno:socket,host=localhost,port=2002;urp;StarOffice
>     Enrique> .ServiceManager" )
>     Enrique> __main__.com.sun.star.connection.NoConnectException: 
>     Enrique> Connector : couldn't connec
>     Enrique> t to socket (WSAECONNREFUSED, Connection refused)
> 
> It would appear that StarOffice is not listening on port 2002.  Can you
> telnet to that port?

No I can't. "telnet localhost" or "telnet 127.0.0.1" failed
After a little exploration I found "telnet service
management" under administrative tools (I am translating 
from names in spanish), and turned on the telnet service.
Now if I do
c:>telnet localhost , I do connect to 127.0.0.1
But
c:>telnet localhost:2002 (or whatever other number) fails

I know nothing about sockets but they are for connecting 
things.
Do you know a very simple introduction/tutorial?

Thanks
Enrique




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jun  2 19:56:04 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 19:56:04 -0400
Subject: Global variable oddness w/short code example
References: <pan.2003.06.02.23.42.23.521303@apeiron.net>
Message-ID: <bbgo6k$q57$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <pan.2003.06.02.23.42.23.521303 at apeiron.net>,
Geoffrey Mainland  <mainland at apeiron.net> wrote:
>
>I've run into some global variable oddness with Python 2.2.2 (running
>under FreeBSD). As I understand it, global variables are global only
>within a module. However, as the code below demonstrates, when module A
>creates a global and then calls a function in module B which accesses the
>new global (via the construct A.theGlobal), the global is not seen. Can
>anyone explain the following oddness?

Not in detail, but the fundamental problem is that you're actually
dealing with three modules: A, B, and __main__

Recursive imports are a Bad Idea.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jun  4 09:29:34 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:29:34 +0200
Subject: [Pypgsql-users] Re: Does anyone use SuSE 8.2
In-Reply-To: <20030604132756.88624.qmail@web40502.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030604132756.88624.qmail@web40502.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3EDDF43E.7050400@ghaering.de>

Gaston Droguett wrote:
> [pyPgSQL RPM does not run on SuSE 8.2]
> Try puting a file called whatever.pth in site-package
> directory and inside you must write the name of the
> subdirectory you need to look in.

No. That's definitely not needed for the pyPgSQL RPM.

It's most likely a problem with minor versions of PostgreSQL's ilbpq 
RPM. They changed that from Pg 7.3 to Pg 7.3.1 AFAIR. A symbolic link 
*could* help, but I need the information I asked for to judge that.

-- Gerhard





From v.wehren at home.nl  Wed Jun 25 15:49:02 2003
From: v.wehren at home.nl (vincent wehren)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:49:02 +0200
Subject: swig+structures -> python
References: <bdbpm6$91m$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <bdctpl$539$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"mwallace1" <mwallace1 at wp.pl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bdbpm6$91m$1 at news.mch.sbs.de...
> Hi,
>
> Please help me to solve this problem.
> I have such  function written in C:
>
> search(
>             const char *base,
>             int scope,
>             const char *filter,
>             char **attrs,
>             LDAP_Entries **entries);
>
> where LDAP_Entries is a structure.
>
> When I call this function from Python, :
> search("ou=applications;ou=general_data;o=zus,c=pl",
>                     SEARCH_SCOPE_SUBTREE,
>                     "cn=KW_*",attrs,entries)
> where :
> attrs = ["cn","command"]
> entries = []
> it says:
> TypeError: Type error. Expected _p_p_char
>
> This function return data in entries parameter.
> I dont want to have access to data in entries,but only an object (handler
to
> it), so I can put returned value in entris into other function,also called
> from Python.

You might want to taka a look at
CObjects
http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/cObjects.html

especially PyCObject_FromVoidPointer and
PyCObject_AsVoidPointer


Regards,
Vincent Wehren


> Do i have to make a typdef functions , so wrapper understands what I want
to
> have back ?
>
> thanx for all your help,
>
>
> mwallace.
>
>
>





From leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au  Wed Jun  4 06:28:21 2003
From: leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au (Leo)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:28:21 +1000
Subject: Tcl isn't installed properly: directory structure wrong
Message-ID: <bbkhio$2bvr$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

hi all

i have problems installing python, or now more exact, to use Tcl on Windows
2000.

i have installed python with the installer Python-2.2.3.exe (size: 7334106
bytes). pthyon itself works, but starting the shell idle doesn't, even after
a reinstall.

when i try to start the idle from a shell in the directory c:\python22 with
the command
    python tools\idle\idle.py
then II get the error message:

|   Traceback (most recent call last):
|     File "tools\idle\idle.py", line 4, in ?
|       PyShell.main()
|     File "C:\Python22\Tools\idle\PyShell.py", line 748, in main
|       root = Tk(className="Idle")
|     File "C:\Python22\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1511, in __init__
|       self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className)
|   TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following directories:
|       {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} {} {C:\WN16\LIB\TCL7.6} C:/WN16/LIB/tcl8.3
C:/Python22/
|   lib/tcl8.3 C:/lib/tcl8.3 lib/tcl8.3 lib/tcl8.3/library library
../tcl8.3/library

the path list seem to be wrong. i have no dir c:/python22/lib/tcl/8.3 but
c:/python22/tcl/tcl8.3.

how can i fix that? how can i customize the paths and what is the satndard
dir structure for tcl, etc?

many thanks in advance, leooo





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Jun 29 17:23:13 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 23:23:13 +0200
Subject: Get the filenames in a directory and its subdirectories
References: <Xns93A9CA4C6C014t45fs6vve@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <bdnlbk$ekg$1@main.gmane.org>

"Psymaster" wrote:

> That would be very handy for a small progrtam I've written. I've
> browsed through the documentation for the standard modules but
> there doesn't seem to be a way (please correct me if I'm wrong).

os.path.walk (with a rather weird interface; look it up in the docs)

> I know that it shouldn't be very hard to write a module myself
> using listdir() and isdir() or stuff like that, but I'm having  problems.

here's a simple version; if you want, you can change it into
a generator (use yield to return the names, instead of adding
them to one big list), but it's perfectly usable as is [1]:

def listdir(root, path=""):
    # recursive listdir
    files = []
    try:
        for file in os.listdir(os.path.join(root, path)):
            pathname = os.path.join(path, file)
            if os.path.isdir(os.path.join(root, pathname)):
                files.extend(listdir(root, pathname))
            else:
                files.append(pathname)
    except OSError:
        pass
    return files

you may also want to take a look at the os.path examples in
my library book:

    http://effbot.org/zone/librarybook-index.htm
    => core modules, page 1-35ff

</F>

1) unless I messed something up when posting it, of course.







From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun  1 23:38:37 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 21:38:37 -0600
Subject: repr on a string
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.06.02.00.08.28.118677@yahoo.com>; from shochatd@yahoo.com on Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 12:08:28AM +0000
References: <pan.2003.06.01.20.16.40.747684@yahoo.com> <yfs1xydzcgx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <pan.2003.06.02.00.08.28.118677@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030601213837.B28263@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth David Shochat:
  [...]
> Anyway, here is a fragment of the book example I was 
> referring to, with a bit more context:
> 
> for dir in sys.path:
>     if string.find(os.path.abspath(dir), 'PyTools') != -1:
>         print 'removing', repr(dir)
>         sys.path.remove(dir)
> 
> In the 3d line, why does he not just say:
> 
>   print 'removing', dir
> 
> Why the call to repr() here?

I don't have the book either, but at a guess, this is intended to
make sure no weirdness gets printed, such as terminal control
characters.

One (somewhat) common example of the bad things that can occur
when arbitrary strings are printed: if you have a python script
starting with
    #!/usr/bin/env python
(which can be used on Unixy systems to make the script get run by
Python when it is invoked directly), and someone has turned the
line ends in the file into CR LF pairs (say, by editing it with a
Windows text editor), then env tries to run a program called
'python\r'.  That fails, printing the message
    : No such file or directory
which is quite puzzling the first time you see it.  What's
happened is that env printed
    'python\r: No such file or directory'
and the CR moved the print position back to the start of the line,
so the following characters overwrite the preceding ones.

You'd get the same behaviour with
    progname = 'python\r'
    print progname, ': No such file or directory'
Using repr avoids this; the repr of a string contains only ASCII
printable characters.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                7\ 7'Z {&~         .
staschuk at telusplanet.net                        Y r          --/hG-
                                            (__/ )_             1^1`




From c_staehli at gmx.net  Sat Jun 21 14:08:45 2003
From: c_staehli at gmx.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Christoph_St=E4hli?=)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:08:45 +0200
Subject: Updating to Python 2.2.3
Message-ID: <bd2741$nrpv0$1@ID-192795.news.dfncis.de>

Hello

I would like to update Python 2.2.2 to the newest version (2.2.3). Do I 
have to uninstall the older version first? Do i have to reinstall all 
the side-packages (VPython, wxPython etc.)? I'm running Windoze XP.

Christoph




From Shaun.Press at anu.edu.au  Thu Jun  5 19:52:54 2003
From: Shaun.Press at anu.edu.au (Shaun Press)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 09:52:54 +1000
Subject: Jython and Java 3D - Has it been done?
Message-ID: <3edfd696$1@clarion.carno.net.au>

Having just finished a port of Visual Python 3D Package ( 
http://www.vpython.org ) to the Wedge immersive 3D environment ( 
http://ephebe.anu.edu.au/wedge/index.html), I am wondering if anyone has 
succesfully used the Java3D package with Jython? Failing that, has it 
been attempted?

Shaun Press
Research School of Information Sciences and Engineering
Australian National University




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Thu Jun 19 01:59:03 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:59:03 +1000
Subject: Feature Structures in Python (Part I)
In-Reply-To: <20030619053141.6BF4835EC4@www.fastmail.fm>
References: <20030619053141.6BF4835EC4@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20030619055903.GC10203@frobozz>

On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 01:31:41PM +0800, James Tauber wrote:
> 
> This is the first part of a tutorial/cookbook I'm writing up on
> implementing feature structures in Python.

What's a "feature structure"?

> I'd love any feedback (particularly on the Pythonicity of my approach).

[...]

> # The del operator can be used to remove features. For example

Actually, del is a statement.

> del fs5[HEAD][AGR][NUMBER]

[...]

> # If you wish to delete all features in a particular structure or
> # sub-structure, you can iterate over the keys of the dictionary and
> # delete each one.

But you'd be better off just using the .clear() method of dicts.

> for f in fs5[HEAD][SUBJ][AGR].keys():
>     del fs5[HEAD][SUBJ][AGR][f]

So this would become simply:

    fs5[HEAD][SUBJ][AGR][f].clear()

-Andrew.





From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sat Jun 14 17:21:33 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 23:21:33 +0200
Subject: why does python execute line bye line as im coding?????????
In-Reply-To: <1055568135.6522.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <20030613235210.11559.00000446@mb-m13.aol.com> <1055568135.6522.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20030614212133.GA7187@nl.linux.org>

Cliff Wells wrote:
> entire program and execute it all at once, you need to use a text editor
> (preferably emacs) to create the file (something like "myprogram.py")
> and then use the command "python myprogram.py" to run it.

<silence>




From husam at macrozon.net  Thu Jun  5 14:13:50 2003
From: husam at macrozon.net (Husam)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:13:50 +0200
Subject: Newbie: How do you enable python scripts in apache server?
References: <3EDF5EC6.6050704@sci.kun.nl> <xqxbrxccwfo.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <bbo1eh$g4s$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl>

>      cgi-bin/            root for cgis
>        mytest2.py        execute, and report out what it generates
>
> If you put your code at mytest1.py, the server thinks you just mean to
> report the raw text (your symptom).  If you put it at mytest2.py, then
> the server will know you mena it to be executed.

Yes, the script sits in /var/www/cgi-bin/, which is the root directoy of the
domain the machine serves.
Also, I chmod +x test.py, but no go.






From bellman at lysator.liu.se  Fri Jun 20 15:43:29 2003
From: bellman at lysator.liu.se (Thomas Bellman)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:43:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Multiple string.replace in one run
References: <bcuqfh$nbvnm$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bcvo51$af9$1@news.island.liu.se>

Thomas G?ttler <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> wrote:

> Hi!

> I want to replace strings in a file:
>  $VAR$ should be replaced with "foo".

> I could do this with string.replace, but
> if I want to replace several variables, I need to
> do the replace several times. Since the file could
> be very long I am searching for a better solution.

Are you tied to this particular syntax, or can you choose any you
want?  You might consider using "%(VAR)s" instead; then you can
use the % operator to get the behaviour you want:

    s = """\
    <html>
     <head> <title>%(TITLE)s</title> </head>
     <body> %(TITLE)s
     %(TABLE_overview)s blu, blu </body>
    </html>
    """

    print s % {"TITLE": "my title", "TABLE_overview": "Look"}

gives:

    <html>
     <head> <title>my title</title> </head>
     <body> my title
     Look blu, blu </body>
    </html>

However, I should not that my own experience using this is that
it is a bit error prone; it is very easy to forget the trailing
"s" after the variable name when writing your text/HTML/whatever
files.


-- 
Thomas Bellman,   Lysator Computer Club,   Link?ping University,  Sweden
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have    !  bellman @ lysator.liu.se
 only proved it correct, not tried it."      !  Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jun 22 23:18:21 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:18:21 GMT
Subject: division
References: <f2sJa.19621$pK2.28535@news.indigo.ie> <slrnbfcp0s.gfb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <yLtJa.19625$pK2.28527@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <slrnbfcsbv.gfb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:41:28 +0100, kpop wrote:
> thanks for the help, I think i will change all the numbers to floating
> points then do the eval
> and if the result is not a float that end with..0

Rather than using string processing (slow, difficult to understand,
prone to error), use modulus to find the remainder (fast, obvious,
built-in):

    remainder = ( result % 1.0 )
    if( remainder > 0.0 ):
        raise SomeExceptionYouCreatedForThePurpose

> i will inform the user they typed something wrong

I think your program design needs re-thinking.  If I typed "4 / 3" into
an arithmetic evaluator, and was told that was an error, I'd certainly
consider it a design bug in the program.

Can you explain more fully what it is you want to do?  Why do you
consider a fractional result to be an error?

-- 
 \       "It's easy to play any musical instrument: all you have to do |
  `\       is touch the right key at the right time and the instrument |
_o__)                     will play itself."  -- Johann Sebastian Bach |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From jtauber at jtauber.com  Thu Jun 19 01:31:41 2003
From: jtauber at jtauber.com (James Tauber)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:31:41 +0800
Subject: Feature Structures in Python (Part I)
Message-ID: <20030619053141.6BF4835EC4@www.fastmail.fm>

This is the first part of a tutorial/cookbook I'm writing up on
implementing feature structures in Python.

I'd love any feedback (particularly on the Pythonicity of my approach).

James

###
### FEATURE STRUCTURES IN PYTHON (Part I)
###
### James Tauber - http://jtauber.com/
### Updated: 2003-06-19
#
# This is the first part of a guide to implementing feature structures
# in Python.
#
#
## BASICS
#
# Python dictionaries are a natural way to represent feature
# structures.
#
# For example, the feature structure
#
#       [  NUMBER   sg  ]
#       [  PERSON   3   ]
#
# can be represented:

fs1 = {
    "NUMBER": "sg",
    "PERSON": 3
}

#
# Similarly, nested feature structures can be represented using nested
# dictionaries. The feature structure
#
#        [ CAT     np              ]
#        [ AGR     [  NUMBER sg ]  ]
#        [         [  PERSON 3  ]  ]
#
# can be represented:

fs2 = {
    "CAT": "np",
    "AGR": {
        "NUMBER": "sg",
        "PERSON": 3
    }
}

#
# Tests of feature structure equality work as expected

assert fs1 != fs2
assert fs1 == fs2["AGR"]

#
# It may be useful to later be able to add metadata to a feature, for
# example descriptions or constraints on the type of values
# allowed. To facilitate this, let's subclass the built-in string type.

class feature(str):
    pass

NUMBER = feature("NUMBER")
PERSON = feature("PERSON")

NUMBER.some_field = "some value"

fs3 = {
    NUMBER: "sg",
    PERSON: 3
}

#
# Note that, by subclassing string we not only get the constructor for
# free but equality testing and compatibility with the plain string
# approach: 

assert feature("NUMBER") == feature("NUMBER")
assert NUMBER == feature("NUMBER")
assert NUMBER == "NUMBER"
assert fs1 == fs3

##
## REENTRANCY
#
# Reentrancy can be achieved by using the same dictionary (i.e. the
# same id) in two places

CAT = feature("CAT")
HEAD = feature("HEAD")
AGR = feature("AGR")
SUBJ = feature("SUBJ")

fs4 = {
    NUMBER: "sg",
    PERSON: 3
}

fs5 = {
    CAT: "s",
    HEAD: {
        AGR: fs4,
        SUBJ: {
            AGR: fs4
        }
    }
}

assert fs5[HEAD][AGR] == fs5[HEAD][SUBJ][AGR]
assert id(fs5[HEAD][AGR]) == id(fs5[HEAD][SUBJ][AGR])

assert fs5[HEAD][AGR] == fs4
assert id(fs5[HEAD][AGR]) == id(fs4)

assert fs5[HEAD][AGR] == fs1
assert id(fs5[HEAD][AGR]) != id(fs1)

#
# Special care must be taken though. If the feature structure bound to
# fs4 is to be modified, the following:

fs4 = {
    NUMBER: "pl",
    PERSON: 1
}

# won't work as all this does is bind fs4 to a new feature structure.

assert fs5[HEAD][AGR] != fs4
assert id(fs5[HEAD][AGR]) != id(fs4)

#
# Instead, the object must be modified in-place. This can be achieved
# with update():

fs5[HEAD][AGR].update(fs4)

assert fs5[HEAD][AGR] == fs4

#
# Note that the following:

fs5[HEAD][AGR] = fs4

# destroys the reentrancy:

assert id(fs5[HEAD][AGR]) != id(fs5[HEAD][SUBJ][AGR])

# and so update() should be used instead (unless destroying the
# reentrancy is desired).
#
# The del operator can be used to remove features. For example

del fs5[HEAD][AGR][NUMBER]

assert fs5[HEAD][AGR] == {PERSON: 1}

#
# If you wish to delete all features in a particular structure or
# sub-structure, you can iterate over the keys of the dictionary and
# delete each one.

for f in fs5[HEAD][SUBJ][AGR].keys():
    del fs5[HEAD][SUBJ][AGR][f]

assert fs5[HEAD][SUBJ][AGR] == {}

#
# Note that, even though you can (in recent Python) iterate directly
# over a dictionary, this will cause a RuntimeError due to the
# dictionary changing size during iteration. Therefore, the use of
# keys() is required.
#
# This is likely to be common enough to warrant a function:

def del_features(feature_structure):
    for f in feature_structure.keys():
        del feature_structure[f]

del_features(fs5[HEAD])

assert fs5[HEAD] == {}

### CONTINUED IN Part II (subsumption, unification)
-- 
  James Tauber
  http://jtauber.com/




From ecastro at dbbf.ulpgc.es  Tue Jun 10 09:29:38 2003
From: ecastro at dbbf.ulpgc.es (Enrique Castro)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 14:29:38 +0100
Subject: PyUNO connection to OpenOffice
In-Reply-To: <3ee5abaa$1_2@noticias.ulpgc.es>
References: <3ee5abaa$1_2@noticias.ulpgc.es>
Message-ID: <3ee5dd42$1_2@noticias.ulpgc.es>

 >>No I can't. "telnet localhost" or "telnet 127.0.0.1" failed
 >>After a little exploration I found "telnet service
 >>management" under administrative tools (I am translating
 >>from names in spanish), and turned on the telnet service.
 >>Now if I do
 >>c:>telnet localhost , I do connect to 127.0.0.1
 >>But
 >>c:>telnet localhost:2002 (or whatever other number) fails
 >
 >
 > Under Windowws, 'telnet' takes its port argument without
 > the colon separator.  Try this instead:
 >
 >  telnet localhost 2002
 >
 > You can also type "netstat -an" and see whether there is
 > anything LISTENING on port 2002, either on 127.0.0.1, your
 > regular address, or 0.0.0.0 (which means "any interface").
 >


I am a newbie and these details are a world for me. Thanks 
to Skip and Peter for being patient with my ignorance.

After checking "netstat -an", as suggested, there is NO 
entry for anythig listening at port 2002. Either OpenOffice 
is running or not.

Now the main question is how to access OpenOffice from 
Python. Why PyUNO fails with the error:

c:\Archivos de programa\OpenOffice.org1.1\program>python 
swriter.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "swriter.py", line 27, in ?
     smgr = resolver.resolve( 
"uno:socket,host=localhost,port=2002;urp;StarOffice
.ServiceManager" )
__main__.com.sun.star.connection.NoConnectException: 
Connector : couldn't connec
t to socket (WSAECONNREFUSED, Connection refused)

The swriter.py script should start a new OpenOffice 
instance, so I do not really understand what should be 
listening at :2002.

What do I need to setup to get the PyUNO connection working?
(I have appended the offending Python code at the end of the 
message)

Is there a way to access OpenOffice through COM? (I have 
used COM to automate MS-Office). Is there a COM object 
map/tutorial for OpenOffice?

Thanks in advance

Enrique

---
These are the first lines of the swriter.py demo script that 
ships with PyUNO

# bootstrap uno component context 	
import uno
import unohelper

# a UNO struct later needed to create a document
from com.sun.star.text.ControlCharacter import PARAGRAPH_BREAK
from com.sun.star.text.TextContentAnchorType import AS_CHARACTER
from com.sun.star.awt import Size

def insertTextIntoCell( table, cellName, text, color ):
     tableText = table.getCellByName( cellName )
     cursor = tableText.createTextCursor()
     cursor.setPropertyValue( "CharColor", color )
     tableText.setString( text )

localContext = uno.getComponentContext()
unohelper.addComponentsToContext(  localContext , localContext,
				   ("connectr","uuresolver","remotebridge","brdgfctr"),
				   "com.sun.star.loader.SharedLibrary" )
				
resolver = 
localContext.ServiceManager.createInstanceWithContext(
				"com.sun.star.bridge.UnoUrlResolver", localContext )

smgr = resolver.resolve( 
"uno:socket,host=localhost,port=2002;urp;StarOffice.ServiceManager" 
)   <--------- This is the offending line.
remoteContext = smgr.getPropertyValue( "DefaultContext" )





From jack at performancedrivers.com  Sun Jun  1 12:33:17 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:33:17 -0400
Subject: Request for feedback on my first Python program
In-Reply-To: <bbd83g$aiu$1@panix1.panix.com>; from aahz@pythoncraft.com on Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 12:02:56PM -0400
References: <MPG.194096b51af188bb9896f0@news.hevanet.com> <slrnbdeevn.694.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net> <mailman.1054429562.11692.python-list@python.org> <bbd83g$aiu$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20030601123317.N1276@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 12:02:56PM -0400, Aahz wrote:
> In article <mailman.1054429562.11692.python-list at python.org>,
> Sean Legassick  <sean at datamage.net> wrote:
> >In message <slrnbdeevn.694.andrew-usenet at athena.jcn.srcf.net>, Andrew 
> >Walkingshaw <andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk> writes
> >>
> >>def isMeaningful(line):
> >>    if line != "" and line[0] != "#":
> >>        return True
> >>    else:
> >>        return False
> >
> >Yuck!
> >
> >def isMeaningful(line):
> >     return line != "" and line[0] != "#";
> >
> >No offence intended, but I've seen this too often in real code not to 
> >point out its redundancy here.
> 
> It is *NOT* redundant; it is making clear that True/False are the only
> possible return values.  With your rewrite, reading and understanding
> the code is necessary to clarify the intent.

+1 for good advice
 
If the docstring says "returns true if some_condition, false otherwise"
invariably someone will look at the code and use the side effect that it
isn't returning 1/0 for evil purposes[1].  reversing the order of compairson
shouldn't break any code, so it is good defensive programming to always
explicity return a bool.

The snippet in question will always return a bool, but IMO this is rarely
the case so it is best to be explicit.

-jack

[1] shoot the person who depended on the undocumented side effect




From domma at procoders.net  Sun Jun  1 07:46:52 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 13:46:52 +0200
Subject: embedding in COM object confusion
References: <baqd39$es5$07$1@news.t-online.com> <aEcAa.2034$ES.21779@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <bate4l$o2k$07$1@news.t-online.com> <iMxAa.3178$ES.34565@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <bbcp3d$vhp$01$1@news.t-online.com>

"Mark Hammond" <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message
news:iMxAa.3178$ES.34565 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Actually, I meant to reproduce in a standard C program rather than a COM
> object.  I would be surprised if COM is the issue, but more the way the
> Python API is being used (either in error, or in such a way as to expose
> a bug)

I'm quite sure that COM is the an problem. I called the object via JScript
and it works fine. Then I build a COM exe server. This way the COM object
will have his own python dll and it works fine also. For me, this looks like
the doubled interpreter is a problem, but I don't understand if it's my
fault.

I moved now back to VC6 and build a python22_d.dll/lib and a python_d.exe.
All files are copied to my Python installation (c:\python22). But with this
version I can not import win32com.client. Here is an interactive session:

K:\bosch\COM\VC6_Test>python_d
Adding parser accelerators ...
Done.
Python 2.2.3c1 (#41, Jun  1 2003, 13:20:10) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from win32com.client import Dispatch
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\__init__.py", line 5, in ?
    import win32api, sys
ImportError: No module named win32api
[8430 refs]
>>> import sys
[8432 refs]
>>> sys.path
['', 'C:\\Python22\\Lib\\site-packages\\Pythonwin',
'C:\\Python22\\Lib\\site-packages\\win32',
'C:\\Python22\\Lib\\site-packages\\win32\\lib',
'C:\\Python22\\Lib\\site-packages', 'C:\\Python22\\DLLs',
'C:\\Python22\\lib', 'C:\\Python22\\lib\\lib-tk', 'C:\\Python22',
'C:\\Python22\\lib\\site-packages\\Numeric']
[8439 refs]
>>>

win32api.pdy is in C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32. Do I need to rebuild
it also as debug version? Any help to get an debug version up and running
would be very appreciated.

Achim





From manuelbastioni at tin.it  Sat Jun  7 10:36:23 2003
From: manuelbastioni at tin.it (Manuel)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 14:36:23 GMT
Subject: Play a short sound...
References: <PnlEa.55289$pR3.1169900@news1.tin.it> <mailman.1054991715.24909.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HLmEa.92242$g92.2147986@news2.tin.it>


> You seem to be using Outlook Express.

Actually...yes... :-P


>You're probably interested in
> doing this on Windows?

Mhh... not exactly. I'm interested to play some short sound
in a python script from Blender:
http://www.kino3d.com/MakeHuman/

This is not necessary, only a amusing addiction. Therefore,
if it's very complex, I don't play any sound...

> There's a winsound module in the standard library that can do this.

Oh, thanks!
But about a multiplatform soluction?

thx,

                 Manuel





From a at b.c  Mon Jun 16 13:54:28 2003
From: a at b.c (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:54:28 +0200
Subject: Observer Pattern (if you got some spare time)
Message-ID: <3eee0283$1_1@news.vo.lu>

Hi,
following a previous thread on Patterns, I ended up reading the famous 
book by Gamma et al., and implemented a "kind of" observer pattern.
If anyone has some spare time and some interest, take a look at:

http://www.homepages.lu/pu/python.pubsub.py.html

Your comments are most welcome.
Patrick

-- 
Real e-mail address is 'cHVAdm8ubHU=\n'.decode('base64')
Visit my Homepage at http://www.homepages.lu/pu/




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Jun 23 15:24:37 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:24:37 -0500
Subject: division
In-Reply-To: <yeIJa.19713$pK2.28663@news.indigo.ie>
References: <f2sJa.19621$pK2.28535@news.indigo.ie> <slrnbfcp0s.gfb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <yLtJa.19625$pK2.28527@news.indigo.ie> <slrnbfcsbv.gfb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <yeIJa.19713$pK2.28663@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <20030623192437.GB4988@unpythonic.net>

>>> class crankyint(int):
...     def __div__(self, other):
...         if self % other:
...             raise ValueError, "cranky"
...         return crankyint(int.__div__(self, other))
... 
>>> a, b, c = map(crankyint, (2, 3, 4))
>>> print c/a
2
>>> print b/a
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    File "<stdin>", line 4, in __div__
    ValueError: cranky

You'll have to override other arithmetic functions to return crankyints.
Something like:
    for method_name in "__add__ __subtract__ __neg__ __mul__".split():
        exec "def %s(*args): return crankyint(int.%s(*args))"
then, force all the inputs to be crankyints instead of ints.

Jeff




From ed at membled.com  Wed Jun  4 15:49:37 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 20:49:37 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054662726.12651.python-list@python.org> <38ec68a6.0306031913.3600bc16@posting.google.com> <3EDD6610.3CABE86A@engcorp.com> <slrnbds4o5.q8q.rmunn@localhost.localdomain> <slrnbds50u.q8q.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <l1k7c1lj1q.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> writes:

[example of a = b = [] versus separate assignments]

>It seems the RHS is only evaluated once in chained assignment, at
>least as of Python 2.2.2.

Yes, it has to be this way.  You can think of [] as a function which
returns a new list.  If the RHS were evaluated twice in

    a = b = []

then [] would be called twice and you'd get two different lists (as
happens when there are two different assignment statements).

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu  Mon Jun 16 05:31:50 2003
From: andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 05:31:50 -0400
Subject: ActiveX currency type (MAPI)
References: <cveHa.27$747.1046@news.optus.net.au>
Message-ID: <ver3p1nd0ivp9a@corp.supernews.com>

Bradley Schatz wrote:

> I am accessing through MAPI.Session, custom properties of outlook forms
> that reside in Exchange.
> 
> I am using the methods described comprehensively on the CDOLive site
> http://www.cdolive.com/cdo10.htm , specifically the Fields interface.
> 
> My problem is that for a Field that is of type Currency (the equivalent
> type of vbCurrency) I am getting a return of a tuple - for example for a
> price of $ 21,000,000 I get the tuple [4, -474836480]
> 
> According to the CDOlive documentation, the value should be an 8byte
> integer scaled by 1000.
> 
> Has anyone any suggestions on how to coerce win32com to unmarshal this
> type correctly?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Bradley

Not sure if this is the best way, but it should work.

import struct

hi, lo = (4, -474836480)
value = struct.unpack('q', struct.pack('II', lo, hi))
print value

>>
21000000000




From mvs2 at linuxmail.org  Wed Jun  4 14:01:05 2003
From: mvs2 at linuxmail.org (marcus)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 11:01:05 -0700
Subject: Iteration through a text file.
Message-ID: <1f9c7669.0306041001.e5b72ea@posting.google.com>

Forgive "newness"

I'm pretty sure I'm missing something very basic, but don't know where
to look.

I have a text file that a Sys Admin is using a program to generate
(don't know the program).  It contains a list of Servers, along with
their "System Availablity" percentages. Some Servers the program
cannot reach, and therefore it has errors in the text file instead of
percentages.

I am trying to loop through the text file, looking for the word
"Server."  If I find that word, I then print out the server name (will
write out later to another file, but for now printing shows me where
I'm at).

Then, I want to look for the phrase "System Availablilty."  If I find
that phrase, then I'll print out the percentage.

If I hit the next occurrence of the word "Server," , and have not had
an occurrence of "System Availability," then I'll know System
Availability was not found.

The trick for me is how do I start searching again for System
Availability after printing out the next server's name?

Here's the code:

import os
filename = r'C:\TextTest\combo.txt'

file = open (filename, 'r')
it = iter(file)

for line in it:
    if line.find("Server") >= 0:  
        stripped = line.strip()
        sname = stripped.split(',')
        print sname[1:] #this is the server name.
        for line in it: #look for availability or next server name
                        #whichever comes first
            if line.find("System Availability") >= 0: #found it
                stripped2 = line.strip()
                avail = stripped2.split(':')
                print avail[1:] #availability percentage
            elif line.find("Server") >= 0: #have found next server, so
                                           #no availability
                break      
               
file.close()


*****

I know the code is flawed, and it appears that line just keeps
incrementing from where it left off (which I thought was good), and I
think that makes sense to me.

What I want to know is how do I point line back to the area it started
the inner loop with?

After Seeing the first "Server" and finding no availability, how do I
go to the next "Server?"

I hope this kind of makes sense.



From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jun 29 23:22:04 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 05:22:04 +0200
Subject: What am I doing wrong here?
In-Reply-To: <7sNLa.30264$Kg7.14786@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
References: <7sNLa.30264$Kg7.14786@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bdoaba$t1kkr$1@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de>

Bill C. Wong wrote:
> ################################
> def func( s ):
>     s1, s2 = s.split( ' ', 1 )
>     try:
>         raise s1
>     except "aaaa":
>         print 'except "aaaa"'
>     except:
>         print 'except:'
> 
> s = "aaaa "
> func( s )
> ################################
> If I manually assign s1 with s1 = "aaaa", then it works fine! What am I
> doing wrong here?

This looks like a Python bug to me. The place to open Python bug reports 
is at Sourceforge. I've done so. Please let's continue the analasysis of 
this at 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=762985&group_id=5470&atid=105470

I'll try to make more sense of this by looking at the C source code of 
the string methods.

-- Gerhard




From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jun 18 05:28:44 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:28:44 +0200
Subject: Embeding Java code in C-Python
In-Reply-To: <3EF0313F.F7B4C888@artenum.com>
References: <3EF0313F.F7B4C888@artenum.com>
Message-ID: <3EF030CC.20607@ghaering.de>

gerard Sookahet wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Is it possible to embed Java code in C-Python ?

http://jpe.sf.net/ is designed for this.

Look into the last release date and CVS (non-)activity before being too 
enthusiastic about it.

-- Gerhard




From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Jun 18 19:20:48 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:20:48 +1000
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE797095@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Ben Finney
> 
> [GPL as possible explicit waiver of copyright]
>
> Thanks for the FUD, but no thanks.

No FUD, no ability to support anything. Just a report of what I have perceived as a growing view in my general browsing across various forums that discuss things like software licenses (open source or otherwise).

Personally, the only thing I have against the GPL is that in practical terms it restricts the amount that code licensed under it is used. BSD-style licenses allow far greater usage of code, and as a result such code does get used more. I prefer that my code, where possible, be used by as many people as possible. I also prefer to use the best possible option for my code, but am often restricted at work from using the best solution because it is under the GPL, and we have to protect trade secrets and thus cannot release the source code to distributed projects.

Tim Delaney




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jun 11 08:48:24 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:48:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bc5nko$4c9$0@216.39.172.122> <6qwufsn9un.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <Xns93978C41ED31Bduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> wrote in 
news:6qwufsn9un.fsf at salmakis.intevation.de:

> But then again with decorators I might just as well write
> 
> def foo(self) as attributed(my_attr = "bar"):
>     pass
> 
> with attributed defined as e.g.
> 
> def attributed(**kw):
>     def add_attrs(f):
>         for key, value in kw.items():
>             setattr(f, key, value)
>     return add_attrs
> 

I doubt this would have the desired effect. Perhaps we should take this as 
a warning: the proposed syntax seems to lead to people writing code 
snippets like the one above which would result in foo==None.

I think the problem may be that the assignment to foo is sufficiently 
obfuscated that it is too easy to forget its happening, or perhaps it's 
just that forcing the decorators to work by returning an intermediate 
function is an extra level of indirection that it would be nice to do 
without.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From stevehanawalt at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 20 19:46:49 2003
From: stevehanawalt at yahoo.com (Steve Hanawalt)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 16:46:49 -0700
Subject: Overloading
Message-ID: <66f88664.0306201546.7a1f063a@posting.google.com>

I am trying to make a DLL accessible to python using Pyrex, but I've
run into a problem with overloading.  Do you have any suggestions on
how to declare the following in Pyrex?

typedef struct _OVERLAPPED {
    ULONG_PTR Internal;
    ULONG_PTR InternalHigh;
    union {
        struct {
            DWORD Offset;
            DWORD OffsetHigh;
        };

        PVOID Pointer;
    };

    HANDLE  hEvent;
} OVERLAPPED, *LPOVERLAPPED;


I know Mark Hammond has managed to do it somehow using SWIG in is
Win32all, but I really don't want to reinvent the wheel.  I'm open to
any suggestions you might have.

Thank you,
Steve



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Jun 30 12:04:21 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:04:21 -0500
Subject: Idiomatic way of repeating items in a sequence.
In-Reply-To: <f58803d.0306300326.705bad44@posting.google.com>
References: <f58803d.0306300326.705bad44@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030630160420.GA12159@unpythonic.net>

Here's one:

    def repeatitems(sequence, repetitions):
        r = [None] * repetitions
        return [i for i in sequence for j in r]

Here's another, using generator functions (so the return is an iterator,
not a list):

    def repeatitems(sequence, repetitions):
        r = [None] * repetitions
        for item in sequence:
            for i in r:
                yield item

In both cases I've performed an "optimization" by precomputing a list
with len(repetitions) instead of computing it once for each item in
sequence.  Whether this makes a difference, I don't know.

Jeff




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jun 19 16:03:39 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 20:03:39 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <bcq4c4$lff$0@216.39.172.122> <uptla4vwb.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <bct4ur$a1k$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:57:08 -0400, David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
>
>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:25:54 -0400, David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
>>>
>>>> But this has little to do with the need of 'type declarations'.  I
>>>> suspect that a statically typed language would also be better off
>>>> without them, relying on type inferencing instead, a la Haskell (and
>>>> Haskell's typeclasses to keep the inferencing as wide as feasible),
>>>> for example.  But I have no research to back this up;-).
>>>
>>>I don't have any first-hand experience, but the experience of friends
>>>of mine who have used Haskell is that it can be exceedingly difficult
>>>to locate the source of a type error when it does occur, since the
>>>inference engine may propagate the "wrong" type back much further than
>>>the source of the error.
>>>
>>>Furthermore, if you do everything by inference you lose the
>>>explanatory power of type declarations.
>>>
>> But what does "type" really mean? ISTM that in the static typing world
>> "type" mostly identifies a type of *representation* -- i.e., things that
>> have compatible memory layouts. 
>
>That's a very primitive notion of type, and not at all what is meant
>in type theory.
>
Ok. I was focusing on an aspect of practical type implementation rather
than associated semantics. The wider notion is type as ability to play
a role correctly in terms of operations on/with objects that are instances of
the type, noting that a type has a type that itself plays roles in operations
of defining composite types from primitive ones and others.

>> Of course any Python implementation will have underlying
>> *representations* of its entities, but those are not a central
>> concern of Python or Python programmers. In fact, UIAM it is a goal
>> of Python design to enable programmers to forget about concrete
>> representations as much as possible, except for "foreign"
>> interfacing.
>>
>> I.e., the "types" of Python are more abstract, and are more about
>> abstract structure and functional compatibility than underlying
>> representation. ISTM "static" typing in this world can't be a direct
>> translation of the old concept, unless you are talking about an interface
>> to an old-style "statically typed" world, or want to incorporate
>> an encapsulated chunk of that into python.
>
>I think most of the above is answered in my reply to Alex, which I
>refer you to.
An interesting exchange ;-) It got me to thinking that if you could subclass
dict and tuple to enforce type constraints, and then use them to make
function local namespaces and arg/return value tuples, it might be interesting.
E.g., for the dict, (just a sketch to illustrate functionality, obviously not
an optimized implementation):

class tydict(dict):
    def __new__(cls, *args, **kw):
        self = dict.__new__(cls, *args)
        self.types = kw
        return self
    def __init__(self, *args, **kw):
        dict.__init__(self, *args)
    def __setitem__(self, key, value):
        if self.types:
            if not key in self.types:
                raise TypeError,'tydict instance at 0x%x: %r is not acceptable key' % (
                    id(self), key)
            if not isinstance(value, self.types[key]):
                raise TypeError,'tydict instance at 0x%x: %r may not be set to type %s' % (
                    id(self), key, type(value).__name__)
        dict.__setitem__(self, key, value)
    def settypes(self, **kw):
        self.types = kw
    def update(self, dct):
        for key in dct.keys(): self[key] = dct[key]
    def setdefault(self, key, value):
        if key in self: return self[key]
        self[key]=value
        return value
    def copy(self):
        return self.__class__(self, **self.types)
 
This would give a kind of optional assert_on_use for a dict. You could enhance the type info
to include const to make the first binding stick, etc., or restrict only the named keys but
allow others to added. Of course, you would have to get in at low level uses of dicts to affect
module globals and object attributes etc. Maybe if a settypes method were implemented for the
various dict incarnations to turn on checks as above it could be done.

Tough to do without performance hits though, I guess. Except if a function could be munged a la
classmethod etc, and the info passed there, it might guide a second pass of type inference pretty
tightly and create opportunity for optimization.

I was thinking if there were a (meta?) class typle which implemented definable tuple types,
where there was a corresponding tuple of types playing an analogous role to tydict.types
in defining the allowable types for each position, then that might be used for argument and
function return tuples somehow, but I haven't pursued that beyond this ;-)

Anyway, between tydict and typle, you could dictate a lot about how "variables" were used.

Small demo of tydict (not tested beyond this!!):

 >>> while s!='quit':
 ...     s = raw_input('test> ')
 ...     try:
 ...         exec s
 ...     except Exception,e:
 ...         print '%s: %s'%(e.__class__.__name__, e)
 ...
 test> td = tydict(x=int, y=str)
 test> print td
 {}
 test> td['a']=3
 TypeError: tydict instance at 0x7a6990: 'a' is not acceptable key
 test> td['x']=3
 test> print td
 {'x': 3}
 test> td['y']='four'
 test> print td
 {'y': 'four', 'x': 3}
 test> td['x']='three'
 TypeError: tydict instance at 0x7a6990: 'x' may not be set to type str
 test> td['y']=4
 TypeError: tydict instance at 0x7a6990: 'y' may not be set to type int
 test> print td.setdefault('x','three')
 3
 test> del td['x']
 test> print td.setdefault('x','three')
 TypeError: tydict instance at 0x7a6990: 'x' may not be set to type str
 test> td2 = td.copy()
 test> td2.update({'x':333, 'y':4})
 TypeError: tydict instance at 0x7a20d0: 'y' may not be set to type int
 test> td2.update({'x':333})
 test> print td2
 {'y': 'four', 'x': 333}
 test> print td2.types
 {'y': <type 'str'>, 'x': <type 'int'>}
 test> td2.settypes()
 test> print td2.types
 {}
 test> td2['a']=8
 test> print td2
 {'y': 'four', 'x': 333, 'a': 8}
 test> quit

Just messing around, don't take too seriously ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From http  Mon Jun  2 21:05:09 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Jun 2003 18:05:09 -0700
Subject: [OT] Inexpensive virtual domain host for penurious friend's low traffic static html site?
References: <bbg42t$8bd$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <7x4r380y4a.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
> I've heard some provide such free hosting as part of domain reg/dns
> accounts.  Can anyone suggest such a service to recommend to a
> friend? Or a better place to ask?  TVMIA.

doteasy.com has that.  I don't have any idea how good the service is, but
I know of a site that uses it and it doesn't pop any banners or anything.




From ubecher.wechdamit at gmx.net  Thu Jun  5 12:57:46 2003
From: ubecher.wechdamit at gmx.net (Uwe Becher)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 18:57:46 +0200
Subject: data base
In-Reply-To: <a6KDa.46210$pR3.976604@news1.tin.it>
References: <a6KDa.46210$pR3.976604@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bbnsqa$vji$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Alex wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I'm newbie
> 
> What is the cross-platform/free data base that I can use in my project?
> 
> The data base not need of server db such as SQL server/Oracle/mySql, but
> like a MS Access.
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> Alex - Italy
> 
> 

Hi Alex,

you could try SQLite http://www.sqlite.org/

At http://pysqlite.sourceforge.net/ you find PySQLite, a Python extension

Hth

Uwe - Germany




From evan at 4-am.com  Tue Jun 10 11:55:32 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:55:32 -0500
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
In-Reply-To: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <3EE5FF74.4020203@4-am.com>

Kevin Smith wrote:
> There are still some legitimate concerns about using 'as' for the delimiter

I wouldn't worry about this.  In English usage, 'as' is extremely 
versatile for such a small word.  My dictionary lists over a dozen 
distinct meanings for it, not even counting idiomatic combinations. 
Among these meanings are:

   "in the capacity, character, condition, or role of"

...which seems to me to cover both renamed imports and function annotations.

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am






From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Jun  9 22:42:21 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:42:21 +1200
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055178857.27669.python-list@python.org>
References: <20030609001830.A1089@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus> <mailman.1055178857.27669.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc3f8k$fd6rf$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Evan Simpson wrote:
> 2. Treat such combinations as though they were a goto/label pair.  In 
> other words, rather than invoking the exception machinery, compile the 
> "raise" into a jump bytecode.

Ironically, break and continue do actually invoke something
not altogether completely unlike the exception machinery!

They're not just jumps - they have to unwind the exception
handler stack so that finallies get executed (and I think
they unwind for-loop contexts, too). So this mightn't buy
you all that much.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com  Tue Jun  3 08:21:56 2003
From: Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com (POYEN OP Olivier (DCL))
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:21:56 +0200
Subject: os.system question
Message-ID: <8963D6370B323E4AA3241200F0EAF7318C0ECA@FCEXVEXM002.dcl.int.dexwired.net>

The return from os.system is the ending code from the process.

Better try os.popen and friends from os module. 

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Ruslan Spivak [mailto:alienoid at is.lg.ua]
> Envoy? : mardi 3 juin 2003 12:18
> ? : python-list at python.org
> Objet : os.system question
> 
> 
> Hello, python users!
> 
> 
> I need to get result from 'ping' command(in manpage they are 
> 0, 1, 2), 
> but when i execute the following lines i i get strange results:
> 
> import os
> 
> res = os.system("ping -w 3 192.168.1.1")
> print res
> 
> This gives 256 or another numbers, what am i doing wrong?
> 
> Your help is very, very appreciated.
> 
> Best regards,
> Ruslan
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
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From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jun 10 18:03:12 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 17:03:12 -0500
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
In-Reply-To: <Xns9396F155DC093cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
	 <Xns9396F155DC093cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>
Message-ID: <1055282592.3309.27.camel@lothlorien>

On Tue, 2003-06-10 at 16:43, Chris Liechti wrote:
> Kevin Smith <Kevin.Smith at sas.com> wrote in news:20030610082514442-
> 0400 at braeburn.themorgue.org:
> > Function/Method Decorator Syntax
> > --------------------------------
> >         def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
> >             perform method operation
> 
> what's with the [] syntax discussed here a week ago? 
> it was something like:
> 
>   def foo(self) [synchronized(lock), classmethod]:
> 
> or merging with yours:
> 
>   def foo(self) as [synchronized(lock), classmethod]:
> 
> i think the use of [] is quite logic. it's a _list_ of function decorators. 
> and it helps readability, at least the variants should be listed as 
> alternatives in the PEP.

But lists aren't used in Python syntax, only in other APIs.  *Tuples*
are used, or tuple-like constructs, like:

try:
    ...
except (IOError, OSError):
    ...

There's also the question about whether a list is really what you want. 
Could you do:

    def syncclassmethod(lock):
        return [synchronized(lock), classmethod)]

    def foo(self) syncclassmethod(lock):
        ...

That's just bad, but disallowing that seems arbitrary.  But disallowing
a (non-literal) tuple seems much more reasonable.

  Ian






From boris_genz at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 19 09:00:34 2003
From: boris_genz at hotmail.com (Boris Genz)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:00:34 +0200
Subject: (newbie)list conversion problem
Message-ID: <bcsc56$9k0$1@sunce.iskon.hr>

Ok, I know this problems proabably make you laugh, but I'm in learning
process:)
I want to translate list of strings into identical list of integers. To
clear things up, here is an example:
I want this list: ['7659', '33', '454', '445'] to change in something
like this: [7659, 33, 454, 445].
I'm sure this is possible, and here is what I tried:
x = ['7659', '33', '454', '445']
for elements in x:
  group = []
  group.append(int(elements))

and I got gibberish:) I'm obviously doing something wrong. Can you help
me please, I appreciate any help...

P.S. My English is poor but I hope you understand me;)



From alet at unice.fr  Fri Jun 13 16:11:22 2003
From: alet at unice.fr (Jerome Alet)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:11:22 +0200
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] PyKota v1.08 is out
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.13.20.11.22.820318@unice.fr>

Hi there,

I'm pleased to announce that PyKota v1.08 is out.

PyKota is an entirely Python written, GNU GPLed, centralized, full
featured, internationalized, and easily extensible, print quota and
accounting solution for CUPS and LPRng under Unix like systems like
GNU/Linux.

This release includes two major bug fixes wrt LPRng and account balance
increasing or decreasing.

Also an LDAP schema is included with a sample LDIF file, they will serve
as the basis of the future LDAP storage backend, and are included in this
release for people to look at, try, and discuss.

Minor bugs were also fixed.

IMPORTANT : before upgrading, please DELETE the old site-packages/pykota
directory since some files are not needed anymore, and replace
'postgresql' with 'pgstorage' in /etc/pykota.conf

Learn more about PyKota, see live reports or screenshots, download the CVS
version or buy an official package from :

  http://www.librelogiciel.com/software/PyKota/action_Presentation

Discuss with us, ask for help, report problems or successes, on the
mailing list at :

  http://cgi.librelogiciel.com/mailman/listinfo/pykota

Thank you for reading

Jerome Alet



From joconnor at nets.com  Tue Jun  3 11:34:06 2003
From: joconnor at nets.com (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 08:34:06 -0700
Subject: os.system question
References: <mailman.1054634944.13754.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030603.083404.2027907669.1154@nets.com>

In article <mailman.1054634944.13754.python-list at python.org>, "Ruslan
Spivak" <alienoid at is.lg.ua> wrote:

> Hello, python users!
> 
> 
> I need to get result from 'ping' command(in manpage they are 0, 1, 2),
> but when i execute the following lines i i get strange results:
> 
> import os
> 
> res = os.system("ping -w 3 192.168.1.1") print res
> 
> This gives 256 or another numbers, what am i doing wrong?

Try using 'commands' instead


	import commands

	status, output = commands.getstatusoutput ("ping...")


status will hold the exit status of the ping command.

I use it with '-c 1' to just ping once and return and status will hold a
0 if suceess.  output holds a string of pings output that I guess you
could parse.

For more info: http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-commands.html

-- 
Jay O'Connor
http://www.r4h-music.com

"God Himself plays the bass strings first,
when He tunes the soul"



From saspurss at libero.it  Fri Jun  6 09:28:10 2003
From: saspurss at libero.it (Panther)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:28:10 GMT
Subject: Why it doesn't go ????
References: <pan.2003.06.06.02.56.12.823798@libero.it> <phl5r-0c3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.06.13.33.15.591451@libero.it>

ping.py is here, put it in where you exec script, in windows put it in
c:\python2.2
ftp://ftp.visi.com/users/mdc/ping.py

import os
fd = os.popen('python ping.py 192.168.1.4', 'r')
if fd.readline() == 'None':
 print "I'don't ping ip"

Now can you try this and help me ???
thank you



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jun  2 23:03:27 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 05:03:27 +0200
Subject: [ANN] PySQLite 0.4.2 released
Message-ID: <20030603030322.GA2619@lilith.ghaering.test>

What is PySQLite?

It's a Python-DB API 2.0 compliant extension module that uses the SQLite
embedded SQL database. No external SQL server required. It's home is at
http://pysqlite.sf.net/ Files are downloadable from
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=54058

Release impact:

Unfortunately, I made a mistake while packacking the tarball for 0.4.1, so
that the 0.4.1 tarball didn't actually contain all the fixes that got into
0.4.1, but contained older revisions of the various files instead. So now
is a good time to upgrade if you are interested in the many bugfixes that
went into 0.4.1 :-)

As no new bugs were reported since 0.4.1, I consider the PySQLite API and the
software itself stable now. Consider the "beta" label lifted.

Of course, no new release without new goodies. Because it's already quite late
I'll just paste the raw changelog (created using cvs2cl):

2003-06-03 03:10  ghaering

    * sqlite/__init__.py (1.16, REL_0_4_2):

    0.4.2.
    
2003-06-03 03:08  ghaering

    * _sqlite.c (1.32), sqlite/main.py (1.26) (utags: REL_0_4_2):

        - Added SQL command logging. Use a file-like object for the
          command_logfile parameter in your connect() call.

        - Added an optional timeout parameter for the connect() call. You
          can set a timeout value in milliseconds using the 'timout'
          parameter now.  See the documentation for
          _sqlite.sqlite_busy_timeout for details.
    
2003-06-03 02:38  ghaering

    * setup.py (1.19, REL_0_4_2):

    - Rename package from "sqlite-python" to "pysqlite".
    - Support for the Python Package Index (PyPI).
    
2003-06-03 02:33  ghaering

    * test/: all_tests.py (1.8), api_tests.py (1.14), logging_tests.py
    (1.1), lowlevel_tests.py (1.8), pgresultset_tests.py (1.6),
    testsupport.py (1.1), transaction_tests.py (1.4), type_tests.py
    (1.8), userfunction_tests.py (1.8) (utags: REL_0_4_2):

        - Support for running test cases in in-memory databases, if the
          SQLite version is current enough.
    
        - New test cases for SQL command logging.
    
2003-06-03 02:30  ghaering

    * debian/changelog (1.7, REL_0_4_2):

    0.4.2.
    
2003-05-30 17:15  ghaering

    * setup.py (1.18), sqlite/main.py (1.25), test/api_tests.py (1.13),
    test/type_tests.py (1.7):

        - Defer transaction start to first call of execute(). This should
          make PySQLite a little more suitable for certain multi-user
          environments. For these people who think SQLite is a good tool
          for this job, anyway.
        - Allow the usage of %i and %f instead of %s for int/long/float in
          quoting.  I don't think that this is a good idea. But certain
          people like this form better. As %s still works that way, support
          both styles.
        - Support __quote__ as a custom quote method for compatibility with
          pyPgSQL and psycopg. _quote is now deprecated.
    - Test cases for all of these.
    
2003-04-10 16:24  owensmk

    * examples/calflora/aggregates.py (1.5, REL_0_4_2):

    - Fixed typo in variance.
    
2003-04-01 03:30  ghaering

    * _sqlite.c (1.31), sqlite/__init__.py (1.15), sqlite/main.py
    (1.24), test/type_tests.py (1.6):

        - Dropped DATETIME type code, added support for INTERVAL type
        - Added support for automatic conversion from
          DATE/TIME/TIMESTAMP/INTERVAL columns, without the need to use the
          "-- types" magic SQL comment
        - Added tests for this automatic conversion and enabled and made
          the tests for the SQLite type support actually work
    
2003-03-23 21:32  jrosdahl

    * debian/: changelog (1.6), control (1.3, REL_0_4_2), copyright
    (1.3, REL_0_4_2), rules (1.2, REL_0_4_2):

        Updated Debian package files to match those in Debian package
        python-sqlite 0.4.1-2.
    
2003-03-21 12:42  ghaering

    * _sqlite.c (1.30):

        Use staticforward instead of static as a workaround for broken
        compilers like MSVC6 that can't statically forward-declare arrays.




From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Thu Jun 12 03:39:43 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 00:39:43 -0700
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0306112339.10a4012b@posting.google.com>

This almost qualifies for an "obfuscated" code winner! ;-)

Anand Pillai

Manuel Garcia <news at manuelmgarcia.com> wrote in message news:<arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce at 4ax.com>...
> If anyone ever asks for what good are 'lambda' and 'reduce', show them
> this...
> 
> print (lambda p:p[0]+'.'+p[1:])(
>     str((lambda(x,y,t,a):2L*x*x//a)(
>         (lambda F:(lambda S:reduce(
>             lambda(x,y,t,a),_:((x+y)//2L,
>                 S((x*y)//F),2L*t,
>                 (a-(t*(((x+y)//2L)**2-
>                        (S((x*y)//F))**2))//F)),
>             [0]*13,(F,(F*F)//S(2L*F),2L,F//2L)))(
>                 lambda n:reduce(lambda x,_:(
>                     x-x//2L+(n*F)//(2L*x)),
>                 [0]*15,
>                 n//2L)))(10L**(5010))))[:5000])
> 
> You have to be a bit patient with this one...
> 
> Manuel



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun 16 10:55:51 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:55:51 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com>

Anton Vredegoor wrote:
> 
> Let's have my view on it then, too. In my opinion the obsession with
> testing is a left over from the time one was concerned with type
> checking. It is as if one is not really ready to enter the world of
> signature based polymorphism, so one seeks the aid of different kinds
> of crutches, not realizing that these too, in the end, will prove to
> be just as much of a hindrance.

Wow!  I really thought you were joking, but I carefully read the whole
post to make sure and didn't see any hint of humour, except for the 
fundamental message you are trying to convey, which is in my opinion
quite subtly humorous, however you intended it.

> Further more, this seems to be intimately related to the excessive
> insisting on use cases before one is ready to accept new features. For
> example, what was the use case of the first car? There where no roads
> then, nor gas stations, and the things where really not very useful
> compared to proven, age-old methods of transportation. 

No roads?  What planet do you live on?  Where did the horses trot, and
the wagons roll, and people walk?  On the sidewalks, when they were just 
lone parallel strips of pavement running between the cities?  Of 
*course* there were roads!  In fact, it was the previous generation
of transportation which *made* the roads, deliberately or not, and
cars were just an innovative way to take advantage of them.

Let's see: use cases for early automobiles: they didn't get tired,
you didn't have to smell their dirty asses as you trotted along, 
they could go marginally faster (even at the early stage), on 
average if not in "burst mode", probably cheaper at that point too.
Any idea what it cost to maintain a horse and buggy in the city
when cars came out?

If there's no use case for a piece of software, it is pure research,
or purely speculative development.  That has a place in the world,
but it's not how most people should be spending their time, any more
than most people should speculate in the stock market or most 
companies should pour their shareholders' money into pure research.

> What's the use of replacing type checking with batteries of tests
> while the real advantage of coding in Python is its "executable pseudo
> code" character: "Look ma, no testing necessary!" 

While I agree that Python, more than most or perhaps any other language,
lends itself to a form of development which *doesn't* need testing
(because of it's uniquely "executable pseudo-code" nature and that 
well-known phenomenon of writing something that you aren't sure is
even supported by the language and "it just runs"), I do not agree
in the least that most software should be written without tests.

Most software has bugs.  Lots of them.  Most open source projects 
have huge bug lists, and are starting to spend entire weeks on 
"sprints" which are sometimes focused solely on bug-fixing!  How
effective is Python going to be at preventing that?  Not very:
as evidenced by the fact that the whole sprint concept, as near
as I can tell, is coming *from* the open source Python community
and its attempt to do mass bug fixes (as well as mass development,
but that's not the issue here).  

Without tests, you don't even *know* how reliable your software is.
Without tests, you don't even know you have fixed a bug properly,
sometimes.  Without tests, source code is a liability, not an asset.

> Now to go back to test driven development, is it necessary to
> formulate a plan first before springing into action? 

Uh, yes?  Was that a trick question?

> As logical as it seems this is again just a relic of the old static 
> typing fears. 

Probably not, but I suppose this is just a rhetorical comment and not
something that really needs debating.  If you want to debate it, you
should start by disproving the logic behind it instead of just stating
that it seems logical but is actually (you imply) false.

> Any linguistic expert - and I'm now using the term in a more psychological
> way - will tell you that speech production is "on the fly". 

All speech production?  Or casual speech in everyday conversation?
Ever heard of speech writers?  What about the (at least in English)
phrase "think before you speak"?  That advice came about for a good
reason.  Thoughtless speech is about as useful, most of the time,
as thoughtless programming - I mean programming without thinking 
at least somewhat about what you are trying to do in advance of doing it.
Heck, it's why Usenet is so bad for flames and off-the-cuff responses
(like this one :-), because people just don't think before posting.

> The same should go for a computer language, type in
> your thoughts (or speak!) and let the computer figure out how to best
> express it! Use a user platform to test the effect of your utterances
> or correct them using "live" feedback from the interpreter.

Well, that does start getting interesting, in that it's a neat 
discussion of future possibilities in programming.  If this whole
post of yours was really an introduction to this idea, then I take
back the part about thinking it was a bad, though subtle, joke
and I think there's some merit in discussing science fiction
like this.  Just don't go "dissing" my tests! :-)

> Python is not there yet, but a failure to notice the transformation of
> computer languages into languages of thought, and relying on excessive
> backtracking of all utterances, instead of concentrating on the
> content of what is to be expressed, is a sin against that what is yet
> to come.

Hmm.... "sin" is an evil word, but I'll leave that alone.  My question
is whether you think testing, in the worthy-of-a-better-label form it
has in "Test-Driven Development", is something which is really bad
to be doing, or whether you are simply saying that in the very long 
wrong, perhaps beyond our lifetimes, it will simply not be necessary.

>From a bit of what you've said, I'm under the impression you are really
just talking about "testing" in the traditional sense of writing tests
to make sure your code isn't broken, as opposed to what TDD means by
writing tests.  The two are only peripherally related, as best shown
by Robert Martin's quote from a recent thread.  Are you really just
against traditional "tests", or do you have a problem with the whole
concept of making sure software works right?  (Intentionally polarized
statement to elicit a response... :-)

-Peter



From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Fri Jun  6 02:41:29 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 18:41:29 +1200
Subject: wxPython: Popped-up widget not refreshed properly on Windows
Message-ID: <bbpbqf$c0a0h$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

I have a button which causes a wxListBox control to
appear over the top of some other controls in a
window.

This works perfectly on X11, but on Windows there
seems to be some sort of refresh bug that makes it
appear as though the listbox is behind some of the
other controls. It isn't really, though, because
clicking on items in the box causes them to be
drawn on top, as they should be.

I've tried all sorts of things to fix this, such
as explicity Raise()ing and/or Refresh()ing the
listbox after showing it, making sure it's created
after all the other controls, and experimenting
with the wxCLIP_CHILDREN option on containing
windows, but none of this makes any difference.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to work
around this before I've torn all my hair out?

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jun 25 21:16:27 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 26 Jun 2003 02:16:27 +0100
Subject: parsers / lexers usable from Python and Java (and C++/C)?
References: <87brwnb1ay.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1056494684.30523.python-list@python.org> <87of0m8k60.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1056584562.24635.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87u1adpris.fsf@pobox.com>

"Mike Rovner" <mike at nospam.com> writes:
[...]
> >> PLY (http://systems.cs.uchicago.edu/ply/) implemented entirely in
> >> Python, so it might be possible to use it from both implementations
> >> of Python.
> >
> > No, I really did mean CPython and Java, not CPython and Jython.
> 
> Your goal is a little vague for me. Jython IS java.

Oh, you anal hacker, you.


> > ... wrapping C++ (even generated C++) in an
> > automated way without pain seems unlikely.
> 
> Take a look at boost.python pyste.

Cool!  There are so many nice cross-language tools out there for
Python now...  :-)

Thanks


John



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun  2 09:54:50 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:54:50 -0400
Subject: twisted UDP port and REUSEADDR
References: <bbfivq$29ch$1@news.vol.cz>
Message-ID: <3EDB572A.A405E067@engcorp.com>

Jaroslav Jakl wrote:
> 
> how to communicate on UDP port in the Twisted with REUSEADDR option?
> I have more different processes listening on the same UDP port.

The Twisted mailing list, found under "Services" at the Twisted
Matrix web site: http://www.twistedmatrix.com is probably the best
place to ask such questions...

-Peter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jun 10 13:22:43 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:22:43 -0400
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <mailman.1055263348.10675.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ePWcnXoHC9N1jnujXTWcrg@comcast.com>

"Michael Chermside" <mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1055263348.10675.python-list at python.org...
> And others may feel differently, but I don't find any confusion
between
> "as" in the import statement and "as" with def. In both cases, it is
> pretty clear that "as" isn't its own thing, it's just a helper word
> explaining details of how to import or how to define a function.

I also am ok with 'as'.  I prefer is to the other suggestions.

TJR





From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jun  1 21:12:20 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 18:12:20 -0700
Subject: ANN: EmPy 3.0 -- Python templating system
Message-ID: <3EDAA474.811FB08@alcyone.com>

Summary

    A templating system for Python.


Overview

    EmPy is a system for embedding Python expressions and statements
    in template text; it takes an EmPy source file, processes it, and
    produces output.  This is accomplished via expansions, which are
    special signals to the EmPy system and are set off by a special
    prefix (by default the at sign, '@').  EmPy can expand arbitrary
    Python expressions and statements in this way, as well as a
    variety of special forms.  Textual data not explicitly delimited
    in this way is sent unaffected to the output, allowing Python to
    be used in effect as a markup language.  Also supported are
    callbacks via hooks, recording and playback via diversions, and
    dynamic, chainable filters.  The system is highly configurable via
    command line options and embedded commands.

    Expressions are embedded in text with the '@(...)' notation;
    variations include conditional expressions with '@(...?...!...)'
    and the ability to handle thrown exceptions with '@(...$...)'.  As
    a shortcut, simple variables and expressions can be abbreviated as
    '@variable', '@object.attribute', '@function(arguments)',
    '@sequence[index]', and combinations.  Full-fledged statements
    are embedded with '@{...}'.  Control flow in terms of conditional
    or repeated expansion is available with '@[...]'.  A '@' followed
    by a whitespace character (including a newline) expands to
    nothing, allowing string concatenations and line continuations.
    Comments are indicated with '@#' and consume the rest of the line,
    up to and including the trailing newline.  '@%' indicate
    "significators," which are special forms of variable assignment
    intended to specify per-file identification information in a
    format which is easy to parse externally.  Escape sequences
    analogous to those in C can be specified with '@\...', and finally
    a '@@' sequence expands to a single literal at sign.


Getting the software

    The current version of empy is 3.0.

    The latest version of the software is available in a tarball here:
    http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/empy-latest.tar.gz.

    The official URL for this Web site is
    http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/.


Requirements

    EmPy should work with any version of Python from 1.5.2 onward.  It
    has been tested with all major versions of CPython from 1.5 up,
    and Jython from 2.0 up.  The included test script is intended to
    run on UNIX-like systems with a Bourne shell.


License

    This code is released under the GPL.

...

Control [new in EmPy 3.0]

    EmPy version 3 and above includes the ability to direct
    conditional and repeated expansion of blocks of EmPy code with
    control markups (the obsolescent "substitution" markups are
    unavailable as of version 3.0).  Control markups have analogs to
    control flow structures in Python such as 'if/elif/else', 'for', and
    'while'.  Control markups are set off with the '@[...]' notation.

    Control markups are designed to be used in precisely the same way
    that their internal Python analogues are used, except that the
    control markups are intended to be used where there is much more
    markup than control structure.

    Some control markups are considered "primary," (*e.g.*, 'if',
    'for', 'while') as they begin a control markup.  Others are
    considered "secondary," since they can only appear inside control
    flow markups delineated by primary markups (*e.g.*, 'elif',
    'else', 'continue', 'break').

...

Release history [since 2.3]

    - 3.0; 2003 Jun 1.  Control markups with '@[...]'; remove
      substitutions (use control markups instead); support
      '@(...?...!...)' for conditional expressions in addition to the
      now-deprecated '@(...?...:...)' variety; add acknowledgements
      and glossary sections to documentation; rename buffering option
      back to -b; add -m option and 'EMPY_PSEUDO' environment variable
      for changing the pseudomodule name; add -n option and
      'EMPY_NO_OVERRIDE' environment variable for suppressing
      'sys.stdout' proxy; rename main error class to 'Error'; add
      standalone 'expand' function; add --binary and --chunk-size
      options; reengineer parsing system to use Tokens for easy
      extensibility; safeguard curly braces in simple expressions
      (meaningless in Python and thus likely a typographical error) by
      making them a parse error; fix bug involving custom Interpreter
      instances ignoring globals argument; distutils support.


-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Forever we / Infinitely
\__/  Sandra St. Victor



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jun 21 08:00:24 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 13:00:24 +0100
Subject: how do you learn python APIs?
References: <mailman.1056161079.27203.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87y8zvk5d3.fsf@pobox.com>

Keith Beattie <KSBeattie at lbl.gov> writes:
[...]
> pydoc is close, but the lack of types make it difficult so discern
> what a method does without other documentation.  Doing dir(foo) on
> objects directly in the interpreter which is helpful but, I guess
> I'd like to know what the pythonic way of doing things is, or ask
> how people go about learning a new module.

help(object) in the interactive interpreter is useful -- shows
docstring *and* args.


John



From jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Jun 22 09:00:11 2003
From: jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk (Jeremy Yallop)
Date: 22 Jun 2003 13:00:11 GMT
Subject: Getting a list of an object's methods?
References: <Xns93A2DFFF69BDCfreddiethescaryeleph@203.10.110.105>
Message-ID: <bd498r$o0ehq$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de>

Freddie wrote:
> I've been having some issues trying to get a list of the methods of a class. 
> In 2.2.3, this code gives me all of the object's variables and methods:
> 
> for thing in dir(self):
>     	print 'thing:', thing
> 
> In 2.1.3, on several different machines/OSes (Linux and FreeBSD), only the 
> variables show up. The same thing happens with __dict__. Is there a way to do 
> this that will work on 2.1.x, 2.2.x, and I guess 2.3.x as well? 

  self.__class__.__dict__

Jeremy.



From scott.daniels at acm.org  Fri Jun  6 18:19:23 2003
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:19:23 -0700
Subject: Thread State and the Global Interpreter Lock
In-Reply-To: <53u1evk5jmdcgma5e8eupbe3tn45js302i@4ax.com>
References: <53u1evk5jmdcgma5e8eupbe3tn45js302i@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3ee11364$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Afanasiy wrote:
> Are there plans to make the Python interpreter 
> "fully thread safe" in a future version?
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/threads.html
I suspect not.  It would be incredibly hard to program.
The rub is that, as a prgrammer, you think in
statements (or perhaps expressions) of the language
being executed, but a "fully threadsafe" system
interleaves execution at a resolution finer than those
elements.  In fact, the interleaving can happen during
the execution of a single Python opcode.

Data structures written by one thread will be seen as
half-updated by another thread.  Modern processors go put
in a lot of effort to make some of their optimizations
such as out-of-order execution appear as if a simple
march of instructions is processed.  They try to make
each operation look like it has either already happened
or has not yet happened.  Python would have to put in
double effort: first to pik and respect orders of
operations in the C code that might allow safe
interleaving (possible, but very hard to do).  Then it
would have to "decorate" the C code with volatility
declarations in order to prevent a C compiler from
optimizing away some of that careful ordering.

Stupid little sample (in fake C):
	...
         lock = 1;    /* A */
         ds[0] = 5;
         ds[1] = -3;
         lock = 0;    /* B */

If lock is not "declared volatile", a C compiler is free
to observe that the assignment at A is not read before
the assignment at B.  Therefore, it can simply skip the
assignment at A, since B will set the final value anyway.
Compilers do this all the time.  So the Python interpretter
would have to not only get the parts of Python opcodes to
interact nicely at the "C" level, it would also have to get
the code to run correctly on all the C compilers that Python
is built with.  The only way to do _that_ is to get very
conservative about what code you write, and I'd expect an
easily measurable drop in the speed of Python code that
reflect a lot of disabled optimizations.  As a very simple
example, imagine one thread writing into a dictionary and
another thread reading that dictionary.  That won't happen
in a single C statement by a lobng shot, but it must appear
to the other thread as if was either yet-to-happen or
had already happened (no intermediate states).

If you want to write thread code that interacts safely,
each thread mostly plays in its own yard anyway.  Why not
just bite the bullet and put two processes up and allow
them to communicate the little bit they must through some
system-mediated communication facility such as sockets, or
shared memory, or ....  You may even get a bigger speed
advantage that way.

Its C code interleaving compiler optimization of its
code from appearing to break the indivisibility of its
instructions.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org




From snag at jool.po  Sun Jun 22 20:51:04 2003
From: snag at jool.po (kpop)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 01:51:04 +0100
Subject: division
References: <f2sJa.19621$pK2.28535@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <18sJa.19622$pK2.28304@news.indigo.ie>

"kpop" <snag at jool.po> wrote in message
news:f2sJa.19621$pK2.28535 at news.indigo.ie...
> Hi, i am writing a maths program where i get input from the user and store
> it in
> a string. i then use the eval fucntion to return the right answer. users
> could type in
> "(23+ 21) - (4 * 3) + 2" for example and the function would return an int
of
> 34 which
> I would convert to a string. The problem is division, I would like it that
> only
> exact division was aloud, I mean no remainders.  In python "22 / 5" returs
> an int of 5

I meant to type 4

> i would like if that was illegal because 5 doesnt go into 22 , 4 times
> exactly, and have the eval
> function raise an execption which i could handle.
>
> any advice?
> Thanks
>
>





From ladasky at my-deja.com  Fri Jun 13 15:33:45 2003
From: ladasky at my-deja.com (John Ladasky)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 12:33:45 -0700
Subject: Placing controls, wxWindows
References: <bcckjp$hpu88$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <c09b237b.0306131133.7d2c6aa6@posting.google.com>

"MK" <MK at foo.com> wrote in message news:<bcckjp$hpu88$1 at ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>...
> I have problems while placing wxNotebook in a wxPanel.
> For the time being I'm using
> 
>     self.SetDimensions(0, 0, 1000, 600)
> 
> ... in my wxNotebook-derived class, but obviously that's
> not what I want. If I omit the line above, then my notebook
> shrinks to about 100x20 pixels. (I can barely see the tabs!)
> Does anybody know how can I have my wxNotebook
> adjust its size automatically, relatively to its parent wxPanel?
> Thx,
> 
> The hierarchy is:
> 
> wxFrame
>     wxPanel
>         wxNotebook

You need to do a few things:

1) Visit http://wxwindows.org/ and get familiar with the resources
there.  If you haven't downloaded the wxWindows reference, do so --
but I will caution you that it will be a bit of a challenge to
understand.

First of all, wxWindows is written in C++, and logically the wxWindows
reference is written for C++ programmers.  If you do not know C++, you
may find it difficult to translate what you are reading into Python. 
Some folks are working on a wxPython reference, but it isn't done yet.

Second, not all of the wxWindows classes have been wrapped with Python
code.  You cannot just page through the wxWindows reference and say,
"I'll use that class in wxPython."  That class may not yet exist.  It
may not ever exist.  This is not a huge disadvantage -- most of the
classes that haven't been wrapped are pretty obscure ones -- but you
need to be aware of this when you are reading the wxWindows reference.
 Most of the wxWindows classes that are wrapped in wxPython can be
found in the demonstration program that comes with it.

2) Subscribe to the wxPython mailing list.  Many levels of wxPython
users can be found there, from relative newbies like myself all the
way up to Robin Dunn and Patrick O'Brien who (along with other
people?) are the authors of wxPython.  I have received a lot of help
there.  To subscribe to the list, send a message to
wxPython-users-subscribe at lists.wxwindows.org.

3) To address the specific question that you have right now: you need
one additional object in your hierarchy, called a sizer.  There are
several types of sizer objects, and there is one that is specific for
wxNotebook objects called a wxNotebookSizer.  Take a look at the
example code in the wxPython demo.  They have an example of a notebook
in a sizer.

Good luck!

--
John J. Ladasky Jr., Ph.D.
Department of Biology
Johns Hopkins University
Baltimore MD 21218
USA
Earth



From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Fri Jun 27 16:19:35 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:19:35 -0600
Subject: struct.pack and perl's 'B' code for bitstrings
Message-ID: <20030627201935.3669537E73@www.fastmail.fm>

Is there anything equivalent to perl's pack code B, which allows you to
specify bits to pack?  For example, in perl, pack('B8', '00000010') will
return 8 bits exactly as the bit string appears.  I don't see any similar
codes in struct.pack.  In general struct.pack is not as robust as perl's
pack function.  Is there a better version of struct somewhere, or how are
people overcoming some of these problems?

Thanks much.
-Justin 




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jun  3 09:56:36 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 08:56:36 -0500
Subject: passing a shell argument
In-Reply-To: <11629CCB-95C9-11D7-A50F-000393C7968E@gk-a.com> (oki mikito's
 message of "Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:41:24 +0900")
References: <11629CCB-95C9-11D7-A50F-000393C7968E@gk-a.com>
Message-ID: <m2fzmr9sdn.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "oki" == oki mikito <oki at gk-a.com> writes:

    oki> Hi I wonder if there's a simple way to pass a shell argument
    oki> in a tcsh environment... something like:

    oki> [~/bin] moki% process1 ./*.txt

  import sys
  print sys.argv[1:]

sys.argv is a list of command line arguments.  sys.argv[0] is the name
of the program, and sys.argv[1:] are the rest of the arguments. 

John Hunter




From jung-paz at t-online.de  Tue Jun 17 10:25:11 2003
From: jung-paz at t-online.de (Jung-Paz)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:25:11 +0200
Subject: swig and init_module or initmodule, windows XP
Message-ID: <bcn8cd$efu$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi !

I am new to Python and Swig ...

I am using Python2.2, mingw and Swig 1.3.19, Windows XP, and trying to build
a module using the distutils.
Basically it works, but in the final linking step I get an undefined
reference to "initexample" (the module name is example).
This sounds reasonable, as the file example_wrap.c, as produced by swig,
contains only a function "init_example.c".
If I replace "init_example" by hand with "initexample" and compile and link
by hand, everything is fine, and I get a loadable and usable module.
Any idea how I could make swig to produce other function names, or whatever
could help ?

Thank you very much !







From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jun  5 18:30:21 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:30:21 -0700
Subject: Twisted Panglossia
References: <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com> <mailman.1054749788.8638.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1054830612.3231.python-list@python.org> <w/43+kKkXUlb092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list@python.org> <slrnbdv8vl.ktj.ramen@lackingtalent.com> <mailman.1054849015.9231.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EDFC47D.27B3331@alcyone.com>

Jack Diederich wrote:

> so if you want to be a grammar nazi it was Pollyannaish, but I didn't
< notice
> the difference until you mentioned it.

The -ness suffix just makes an adjective into a noun, so the noun form
of "Pollyannaish" is "Pollyannaishness."  The way David used the word in
the sentence, it was clear that a noun part of speech was what he meant.

Unless I misunderstood what you were getting at here.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I love mankind; it's people I can't stand.
\__/  Charles Schultz



From postmaster at cpress.cz  Wed Jun  4 01:40:12 2003
From: postmaster at cpress.cz (System Administrator)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:40:12 +0200 
Subject: Undeliverable: Re: Your application
Message-ID: <B75EDBA2DC77D51185580090270E3E9E07C4953C@MAIL05>

Your message

  To:      snajdr at cpress.cz
  Subject: Re: Your application
  Sent:    Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:38:12 +0200

did not reach the following recipient(s):

SNAJDR at CPRESS.CZ on Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:40:09 +0200
    The recipient name is not recognized
	The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=cz;a= ;p=computer
press;l=MAIL050306040540LLRX3MBW
    MSEXCH:IMS:Computer Press:CPBRNO:MAIL05 0 (000C05A6) Unknown Recipient


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From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 23 16:06:11 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:06:11 -0600
Subject: Numeric or numarray?
References: <bd35bl$2nh$1@gladiola.noc.ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <bd7mjj$eb5$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

gong li wrote:

> hi
> 
> im a python newbie, i have a few questions. i am attempting to write
> some numerical code (high dimensional monte carlo integration) using
> python, to see how it performs and to learn the  language.  at the numpy
> sourceforge, it appears there are 2 versions, numarray 0.5 and Numeric
> 23.  numeric 23 installed on my machine (slackware9) but numarray
> complained about some filename etc.
> 
> 1. the readme says that previous version of numarray must be   removed,
> is it referring to Numeric also?
> 
> 2. which package should i use?

Stick to numeric for now.  You're just learning, so you won't be going too deep
into the C api yet.
> 
> 3. whats the status of these projects?

Numarray will replace numeric when it becomes stable.  But numeric is in wide
enough use that if a significant bug comes up, it will probably be fixed.  But
numeric is being kept only in a transitional state, while the development of
numarray is completed.

Best,

f.



From ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk  Mon Jun  9 10:24:55 2003
From: ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 15:24:55 +0100
Subject: Error checking in Python
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306090952001.1841-100000@linux.local>
Message-ID: <3ee498b8$0$45178$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>

BGM wrote:

> 
> Hello all:
> 
> I am new to python, coming from a modest C background. Recently, I was
> writing some custom module in Python and I was wondering about one thing:
> Since the user of the module can pass any argument they wish, then it
> seemed like a good idea to check ,say, for type errors within the
> functions in the module. However, it occurred to me that if some of these
> functions are used in in the inner loops of some program, there could be a
> significant slow-down. When writing their own modules, what do the users
> of the list usually do? Do you leave the responsibility for type checking
> to the user of the functions, or do you implement this in the modules, or
> some combination of these two approaches?
> 
> I apologize if there is a simple mechanism that Python provides that I
> have perhaps not learned about. (Other than throwing an exception during
> runtime)
> 
> -------------------
> BGM.

The simplest answer to this is to look at the standard library, there you
have loads of well tested, well used modules - most of which are coded in
Python.

It's almost always a bad idea to explicitly test for types in Python code,
because what happens if the user passes an object that acts like the type
you were expecting, but actually isn't. A good example of this is the
StringIO (http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-StringIO.html)
class. It appears to be a file, but in actual fact is a string - because
methods in Python aren't looked up until they are called it can be used
whereever a file is required. The same goes for a class overriding
__getitem__ and __setitem__ and appearing to be a list.

If you want to add some form of error checking to your functions then the
assert statement (http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/assert.html) is a
good thing to use as it gets compiled out when the -O flag is used.

e.g.
assert type(number) == int # this is Python 2.2 or above only (I think)

Hope this helps,
Andrew Wilkinson



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Mon Jun  2 16:53:21 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:53:21 -0500 
Subject: Python get's a mention on University Challenge
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304F0598D@mail.hebmex.com>

> 
> sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> >>What was the question?
> >>
> >>--Irmen
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > 42
> 
> Ermm... 42 is actually the *answer* to the question.
>

What's the original question, again?

...silence...

riight.  So, there's an answer sans question; I believe the
question is the answer I seek to the question I lack for the
answer I have, no?

<wink>

-gus

pd: and no, "life, the universe and everything" is not a valid question.
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From news at exultants.org  Fri Jun 20 07:23:30 2003
From: news at exultants.org (Van Gale)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:23:30 GMT
Subject: Tiger Hash Function in Python
In-Reply-To: <8CzIa.104097$Ny5.3014903@twister2.libero.it>
References: <y2lIa.104936$lK4.2967901@twister1.libero.it> <bct5oh$6k4$1@panix1.panix.com> <8CzIa.104097$Ny5.3014903@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <S8CIa.327$Qc3.42387645@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Mirco Romanato wrote:
> I'm a newby to Python, and I want use Python because it don't need to
> compile and other things in order to have a working program.
> 
> It is over 10 years I don't program anything, apart my VCR :-(
> 
> But you are right, probably I will follow yours if I find no
> alternative.
> 
> What I dare is, what if I use Python to compute Tiger hash for big
> files:
> e.g tiger of 1024 bytes chunks of a 650 - 1 GB files (650k-1M function
> call for a file).
> The function efficiency compared to C how will compare?

Hash functions written in Python are always going to be slower than the 
same function coded in C, but is up to you to decide whether it's too 
slow for your project.  If you only calculate the hash once in a while 
it probably doesn't matter.

Anyway, this Python package has Tiger hash so it might work for you: 
http://mhash.sourceforge.net/

Van




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jun  9 12:12:02 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:12:02 -0500
Subject: cut off \n
In-Reply-To: <3EE4ACCD.70000@gmx.net>
References: <3EE4ACCD.70000@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <16100.45522.1404.764284@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Tom> Right now I get rid of this by just cutting off the last
    Tom> character. (a = l[:-1]).  My problem is that sometimes the last
    Tom> line of the file has a \n and sometimes not. 

Try

    a = l.rstrip() 

instead.  If there is significant whitespace at the end of lines, then

    a = l
    if l[-1:] == '\n':
        a = l[:-1]

will work.

Skip




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun  4 14:31:12 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:31:12 -0600
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
In-Reply-To: <20030604091352.GA2636@nl.linux.org>; from gerrit@nl.linux.org on Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 11:13:52AM +0200
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com> <20030604091352.GA2636@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <20030604123112.B3368@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Gerrit Holl:
  [...]
> I don't see how properties would fit into any of these syntaxes
> though, because the property() function takes multiple arguments.

Indeed, it seems all the syntaxes proposed are for "decorating"
single functions.

If we do want a tidier syntax for properties,

    class myclass(object):
        property foo:
            """docstring"""
            def get(self):
                # ...
            def set(self, value):
                # ...
            def delete(self):
                # ...

comes to mind.  Completely unrelated to the original proposal, of
course.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                          staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Its force is immeasurable.  Even Computer cannot determine it."
                           -- _Space: 1999_ episode "Black Sun"




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun  4 14:05:48 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 14:05:48 -0400
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
References: <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com> <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <3EDE34FC.C13213CF@engcorp.com>

David Bolen wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
> >    (...)      The core internet components, for example, are quite robust
> > already, and you will rarely see messages about rewriting/refactoring
> > those pieces.
> 
> Just one small comment, since I generally don't see it mentioned in
> postings about Twisted - the underlying protocol support for internet
> components appear robust in terms of TCP support, but we found that
> UDP support was much weaker when we last looked at Twisted (not too
> long ago).
> 
> To the extent that WAN applications for existing popular protocols are
> virtually all TCP based, this isn't much of an issue (and probably
> explains the state of affairs), but if you're thinking of using
> Twisted for in-house development, it's at least something to be aware
> of and to check that it has the functionality you need.  For example
> in our case, we use UDP-based systems probably in equal amounts to TCP
> based systems for in house code.
> 
> Note that this is far from a knock on Twisted, which is certainly an
> attractive framework in its own right.  But references to its support
> for network processing generally don't mention the different level of
> support at the protocol layer.

Good point.  I guess, given the nature of Twisted development (XP
style methodology) it will take a few more people who actually need
UDP support to fix it up right and contribute their work, before that
area can be as stable as the TCP parts are.

-Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jun 18 16:46:50 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 20:46:50 GMT
Subject: How to recognize a generator function?
References: <mailman.1055964335.26570.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcqj3q$nvo$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:20:53 -0700, Oscar Rambla <tecnic at codidoc.com> wrote:

>
>-Andrew. answered.
>>
>>How do you know what *any* function returns before you call it?
>
>I'll try to explain me better. Supose :
>
># a generator-function
>def f():
>  a =3D 1
>  yield a
>
># a kind of callback
>def call( object )
>  if isGeneratorfunction( object):
>      g =3D object()
>  elif Type(object) is GeneratorType:
>      object.next()
>
>call( f )
>
>The question is the following:
>
>def isGeneratorfunction():
>
>   return True

But why would anyone pass a generator object to call if call
was designed to take a no-parameter callable as its argument?

say gen =f() from above. Why not just pass gen.next instead of gen?
(or just write fgen = f().next and pass fgen instead of gen.next).
I.e., the bound method (note no parens on gen.next), which is callable
just like a function would be, and no test inside call would be necessary.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jun 16 12:39:45 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 12:39:45 -0400
Subject: class variable declarations...
References: <bckftl$k0pe7$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de> <3EEDD08E.C973E017@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bckrsh$9mu$1@panix2.panix.com>

[You'll need a fixed-width font for this]

In article <3EEDD08E.C973E017 at hotmail.com>,
Alan Kennedy  <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>How about this, using new style classes:-
>
>class SpeedTouchComm(object):
>    "Interface with the SpeedTouch router"
>    
>    __slots__ = ['connect', 'uid', 'pwd', 'rtuid', 'rtpwd']

 ____   ___  _   _ _ _____   ____   ___    _____ _   _    _  _____
|  _ \ / _ \| \ | ( )_   _| |  _ \ / _ \  |_   _| | | |  / \|_   _|
| | | | | | |  \| |/  | |   | | | | | | |   | | | |_| | / _ \ | |
| |_| | |_| | |\  |   | |   | |_| | |_| |   | | |  _  |/ ___ \| |
|____/ \___/|_| \_|   |_|   |____/ \___/    |_| |_| |_/_/   \_\_|

__slots__ are strictly an optimization technique; you *will* have
problems with subclasses of SpeedTouchComm unless you're *very* careful.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From troy at gci.net  Sat Jun 28 06:28:02 2003
From: troy at gci.net (Troy Melhase)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 02:28:02 -0800
Subject: struct.pack and perl's 'B' code for bitstrings
References: <20030627201935.3669537E73@www.fastmail.fm> <mailman.1056790245.2779.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vfqrbis9idcmb1@corp.supernews.com>

>> Is there a better version of struct somewhere, or how are
>> people overcoming some of these problems?
> 
> I've heard of some alternative version of struct. I've never checked if
> they have bitstring options.

Justin, Oren:

You might be thinking of (or interested in) the SuperStruct module by Just
van Rossum:

http://starship.python.net/crew/just/code/sstruct.py

Or the unavailable-except-by-google-cache Python xstruct module:

http://216.239.57.100/search?q=cache:1FDMgaAXns0J:www.sis.nl/python/xstruct/xstruct.html+xstruct&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Good luck,
troy





From leonardbocock at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 23 21:09:31 2003
From: leonardbocock at yahoo.com (lebo)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 18:09:31 -0700
Subject: SocketServer class - basis problem
Message-ID: <63701d2f.0306231709.7990d916@posting.google.com>

So I'm new to this python stuff - and this has me stumped

# server
import SocketServer

PORT = 8037

class myRequestHandler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler):
    def handle(self):
        self.input = self.rfile.read(1024)
        print self.input
        self.wfile.write("blah")

server = SocketServer.TCPServer(("", PORT), myRequestHandler)
print "listening on port", PORT
server.serve_forever()

# client
import socket

HOST = socket.gethostname()
PORT = 8037        

s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
s.connect((HOST, PORT))
s.send('Hello, world')

# Fails
data = s.recv(1024)

s.close()
print 'Received', data

Why does s.recv() hang the client?  It seems like server is not
handing back "blah", but I'm sure it is.....this should be
easy...(sigh)



From just at xs4all.nl  Thu Jun  5 14:01:18 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 20:01:18 +0200
Subject: Using metaclasses to make super more beatiful
References: <mailman.1054831871.3625.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-1DFBB9.20011805062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.1054831871.3625.python-list at python.org>,
 Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:

> as demonstrated by Guido's paper[0], a relatively simple metaclass
> can make the use of super a lot more beatiful:
> 
>  97 >>> class autosuper(type):
>  97 ...  def __init__(cls, name, bases, dict):
>  97 ...   super(autosuper, cls).__init__(name, bases, dict)
>  97 ...   setattr(cls, "super", super(cls))
>  97 ...
>  98 >>> class A:
>  98 ...  __metaclass__ = autosuper
>  98 ...  def f(self): return "A"
>  98 ...
> 100 >>> class B(A):
> 100 ...  def f(self):
> 100 ...   return self.super.f()
> 100 ...
> 101 >>> B()
> <__main__.B object at 0x403b3c6c>
> 102 >>> B().f()
> 'A'
> 
> Why doesn't type include the behaviour of autosuper by default,
> so that each class can use self.super or self.__super__ so that
> using super is easier?

Tip: create a class C, derived from B, then call f() on an instance of 
C, and see what happens <wink>.

Just



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun 19 14:37:48 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:37:48 -0400
Subject: WTF is Fibonnacci
References: <7inIa.55233$Io.5225846@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3EF202FC.D4239BB3@engcorp.com>

Mike wrote:
> 
> I'm readin through the Non-Programers Tutorial for Python and I'm on the
> examples of section Count to 10. And I can't figure out how the example got
> the output, can anyone help break it down for me?

If the example is tiny, post it here.  If it's more than about ten lines,
post a link to it.



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 19 06:55:02 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:55:02 +0100
Subject: The socket operation could not complete without blocking
References: <bcq0fh$vu$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3EF19686.1E898A5D@hotmail.com>

Achim Domma wrote:

> calling urllib2.urlopen (python2.3) I randomly the error message:
> 
> "The socket operation could not complete without blocking"

This old thread seems to have a fairly detailed discussion of non-blocking
sockets.

"The joys and jilts of non-blocking sockets"
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=Xns90989FD82A446rcamesz%40127.0.0.1&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3DXns90989FD82A446rcamesz%2540127.0.0.1

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Wed Jun  4 12:40:40 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 16:40:40 GMT
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1054718112.3943.python-list@python.org> <bbl189$fs9$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <bbl6n9$mch$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bbl7e8$7fc$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message news:bbl6n9>
> No, Guido will insist on requiring a definition of a set function that
> raises an exception if you want to make it read-only.

Ok.







From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jun  8 23:01:47 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 23:01:47 -0400
Subject: interpreted
References: <M6icneVATOpIWn6jXTWcrg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3EE3F89B.3558836B@engcorp.com>

Ifman1 wrote:
> 
> Python is interpreted, right?  Is there anyway to make it compiled to
> machine code?  Will this make it faster?

Python is actually quite fast enough for most things.  Consider
that much of the real work is done by calls to C code that is
optimized and tuned already.  Maybe thinking of Python as a 
high level language which lets you quickly link diverse C 
libraries in more sophisticated ways than you can easily do
using C itself would be helpful for you.

-Peter



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Jun 27 12:30:45 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:30:45 -0400
Subject: Twisted article on dW
Message-ID: <1EH/+kKkX0cY092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

Normally I don't bother specifically announcing my articles.  But it
seems like Twisted has become a common splinter thread on c.l.py (it is
perpetually both mystifying and enticing to us developers).

I wrote a series of articles introducing the Twisted framework for IBM
developerWorks (I've actually written 3, with one more planned).  The
first of these appears today:

    http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-twist1.html

--
 mertz@  _/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: \_\_\_\_    n o
gnosis  _/_/             Postmodern Enterprises            \_\_
.cx    _/_/                                                 \_\_  d o
      _/_/_/ IN A WORLD W/O WALLS, THERE WOULD BE NO GATES \_\_\_ z e





From tompol at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 11 21:24:57 2003
From: tompol at hotmail.com (huntermorgan)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 18:24:57 -0700
Subject: DOM text to xml aarrgghhh!!!!
Message-ID: <78cae312.0306111724.1a3e433f@posting.google.com>

hi there, ive posted b4 but was mentioned that my request was a bit
vague so.....im a tertiary student getting my head around python and
im liking python but not quite handy with the syntax etc...so im
really needing help on this one

i would like to have someone look at my code below and answer as to
what i have done that makes my small program not work and some code to
fix it.

it is a small python coded program that takes in a tertiary course
outline ("Outline2003") in a text format and should output it in an
xml styled text format. hence, text in = xml out.

at the moment the output file reads this

<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<2003 Course Outline/>

...and thats it. There are headings and sub-headings which should
format to xml tags and the text in between should just be written to
the output as is, in between the tags.

so please...im desperate to figure out why my code wont work.

can anybody help???? below is the code and below that is a small
snipet of the course outline

<start of code>

import re
from xml.dom.minidom import *

def main(arg):
    try:
        f = open(arg)
    except:
        print "cannot open file"


    newdocument = Document()
    rootElement = newdocument.createElement("2003 Course Outline")
    newdocument.appendChild(rootElement)
    
    tagSequence = re.compile("(^\d+)\t+")
    
    while 1:
        line = f.readline()
        if not line:
            break

        s = line

        target = tagSequence.search(s)
        if target:
            s2 = re.search("\t", s)
            result = s[s2.span()[1]:]
            newElement = newdocument.createElement(result)
            newDocument.appendChild(newElement)
    
    x = newdocument.toxml()
    f=open('CourseOutlineXML.xml', 'w')
    f.write(x)
    print x
                      
if __name__ == '__main__':
    main("Outline2003.txt")

<end of code>

<start of "Outline2003">

1	COURSE STAFF MEMBERS

	(a)	Course Academic Staff Member (#sub heading)
                Rob Oliver - Room number S662. Contact number 900 0000

	(b)	Programme Leader (#sub heading)
                Trevor Nesbit, Room number N215. Contact number 900
0000

        (c)	Course Co-ordinator (#sub heading)
                Dr Mike Lance - Room number S661 Contact number 900
0000

        (d) 	Head of School (Acting) (#sub heading)
		Janne Ross, Room number S176, Contact number 900 0000


2	MATERIALS
	NIL

3	CLASS HOURS AND TIMES

       Day	Time	Room
       Tuesday	10:00 - 12:00	X307
       Thursday	10:00 - 12:00	L249


4	REFERENCE TO STUDENT HANDBOOKS

	Students should obtain a copy of the following

	Christchurch Polytechnic Student Handbook
	Faculty of Commerce Student Handbook
	Programme Handbook

<end of "Outline2003">



From no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid  Sat Jun  7 10:08:39 2003
From: no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid (Robert Oschler)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 14:08:39 GMT
Subject: Prolog-style unification?
Message-ID: <HlmEa.107$Hw.137249@news2.news.adelphia.net>

Has anybody seen a Python module that adds Prolog-style unification (pattern
matching) to Python?  I know about PyLog and SnoPy, but that's not quite
what I'm looking for.

thx

--
Robert Oschler,
Android Technologies, Inc.
http://www.androidtechnologies.com
- The home of Off-Book! (tm)
The scene memorization tool for Actors and Actresses!





From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Thu Jun 26 00:17:52 2003
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:17:52 -0700
Subject: jython type coercion to interface type
References: <16990fa4.0306250941.55973aba@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3ef9f6ab$0$141$e4fe514c@dreader5.news.xs4all.nl>

Harald Kirsch wrote:

> How would I call a java constructor which takes a java.lang.CharSequence
> as argument. Say, the java class goes like this
>
> class X {
>   public X(CharSequence s) { ... }
> }
>
> In the jython interpreter I tried along the lines of
>
>   x = X("bla")
>
> and got "1st arg can't be coerced to java.lang.CharSequence". Then

This is a known bug in jython 2.1, see
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/Jython-dev/1582382

>   x = X(CharSequence("bla"))
>
> and got "can't instantiate interface (java.lang.CharSequence)"
>
> Is there a way to typecast String to CharSequence or, mor generally,
> a type to a supertype or interface?

Could you try this:

from java.lang import String

x = X(String("bla"))

and report whether it's a workaround for the bug?
For Java types, such conversions normally succeed in Jython.
The problem seems to be that the standard string conversion
from jython to java is incomplete.

Kind regards,
Ype

--
email at xs4all.nl



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Mon Jun 30 16:32:08 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 16:32:08 -0400
Subject: RELEASED: Pymacs 0.22
Message-ID: <oqbrwffgs7.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

Hello to everybody, and Emacs users in the Python community.

There have been a few changes in the structure of the Pymacs distribution,
so maybe only the braves among Pymacs users will try this version! :-) The
distribution file bloated from 50K to 360K, as it contains PostScript and
PDF renderings of the Pymacs documentation, and some other related files.

A new, third example is of intermediate size between the two existing ones.
This is a Python backend for Emacs Gnus, able to read and modify either Unix
mailboxes or Babyl (RMAIL) files.  Its documentation is not complete yet.

Pymacs in itself did not change much, however.  `pymacs-trace-transit' may
now be the `cons' of a minimum and maximum between which the size of the
`*Pymacs*' oscillates, as a compromise between the two previous choices,
which were extreme: either one transaction only, or mere unbounded growth.

Special thanks to those who helped me at creating or testing this release.

--------------------

Pymacs is a powerful tool which, once started from Emacs, allows both-way
communication between Emacs Lisp and Python.  Pymacs aims Python as an
extension language for Emacs rather than the other way around, and this
assymetry is reflected in some design choices.  Within Emacs Lisp code, one
may load and use Python modules.  Python functions may themselves use Emacs
services, and handle Emacs Lisp objects kept in Emacs Lisp space.

`http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard/pymacs/' contains a copy of the
Pymacs documentation in HTML form.  The canonical Pymacs distribution is
available as `http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard/pymacs/Pymacs.tar.gz'.
Report problems and suggestions to `mailto:pinard at iro.umontreal.ca'.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jun 20 11:57:46 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 15:57:46 GMT
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com> <mailman.1055919632.16586.python-list@python.org> <rfVHa.105923$pR3.2320136@news1.tin.it> <yfs65n39z72.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <just-0D60BB.18081218062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <yfsof0v880w.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <2259b0e2.0306190831.63d42265@posting.google.com> <yfswufi6j86.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <2259b0e2.0306191332.664300c0@posting.google.com> <yfsof0t7gwp.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <2259b0e2.0306200552.6e41358d@posting.google.com> <yfs7k7g7q64.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <bcvatq$to5$0@216.39.172.122>

On 20 Jun 2003 15:57:07 +0100, Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote:

>mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:
>
>> Sorry for the typo, of course I meant __setitem__/__getitem__. 
>> I am saying that a workaround for the change of the constructor signature 
>> is to subclass dict and to override the constructor. There is 
>> not a big penalty and you seems to agree (your last sentence). 
>> Overriding __getitem__ gives a big penalty, that's true, but this has 
>> nothing to do with the change of the constructor in Python 2.3, right ?
>> I do not understand where the source of the confusion is (if any).
> 
>OK, I see now what you mean. I don't agree the penalty for overriding
>__getitem__ "has nothing to dow ith change of the constructor" in the context
>of deciding whether it would be more desirable to 'enhance' dicts with a new
>'default' option or the syntactic sugar behavior. The syntacitic sugar can
>trivially be supplied by the user (``makeDict(**d): return d``), at no
>significant performance cost -- the 'default' behavior can't (and isn't just
>MTOWTDI).
>
I think I am also against the additional sugar. I'd rather be able to subclass
and, e.g., have myDict(fromSeq=['a', 1, 'b', 2]) == {'a':1, 'b':2} _unambiguously_.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Jun 10 13:34:37 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:34:37 +0200
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <mailman.1055261361.12074.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-958DE9.19343710062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.1055261361.12074.python-list at python.org>,
 sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:

> is downright confusing.  It might be taken to be more confusing
> than the alternate syntax:
> 
> >>> def VerySpecialFunction(a,b) [Synchronized, Memoized,
> Contract(pre,post)]:
>       ....
> 
> because the first uses "as", which is already known; otoh, the use
> of a list (or tuple) after the parameter list is unknown, so there's
> no previous reference to muddle things up.

Same here. Also, the fact that it looks like a list makes the definition 
quite easy in terms of a list.

  def foo(self) [a, b, c]:
      ...

This evaluates to

  def foo(self):
      ...
  for modifier in [a, b, c]:
      foo = modifier(foo)

(With the exception that the initial 'foo' and 'modifier' variables are 
not exposed.)

Just



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Jun 11 09:06:02 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:06:02 -0500
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <3EE65444.907E6D87@alcyone.com>
References: <mailman.1055217438.10041.python-list@python.org> <dd5454fb.0306101346.201331fc@posting.google.com> <3EE65444.907E6D87@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20030611130559.GB29994@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 02:57:24PM -0700, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Jonathan Claggett wrote:
> 
> > How about overloading the keyword "is" instead of "as"? As far as
> > English readability is concerned, this might be clearer. "Is" also
> > fits in well with established OO terminology (e.g., a square is a
> > rhombus, a function is a static method).
> 
> Deja vu.  The benefit, as I see it, is that `as' is a secondary keyword
> -- it presently only has meaning in conjunction with an 'import'
> statement.  Since it's a lowly little preposition, it doesn't have all
> that much intrinsic meaning by itself.  If adding keywords were "free,"
> perhaps some new word might be helpful, such as `has'.  But there is
> significant inertia against adding new keywords, so if we can make do
> with old ones, so much the better.  I personally think that `as' is a
> very good choice for this because of its secondary nature.
> 
> The problem with using `is' is that it already has a very specific
> meaning, namely in the use of the `is' operator.  

Can I jump on the "re-use an existing reserved word where it doesn't
belong" bandwagon?

How about
    def f() for staticmethod:
    def f() finally staticmethod:
    def f() del staticmethod:
    def f() import staticmethod:
    def f() class staticmethod:
oh, you don't like any of those?  Sorry!

Actually, I think that just like 'import ... as' a word could be chosen
to go after the function arguments that is not a reserved word.  The
grammar would read
    funcdef: 'def' NAME parameters (NAME testlist)?
and the second NAME would be required to be the word chosen for the
function modifier, if it's present.  This leads to ideas like
    def f() with modifiers withlock(l), classmethod
(here it would be (NAME NAME testlist, since 'with modifiers' is two
words)

All that said, I'm +1 on the 'def f() [modifiers]' syntax and at best
+0 on other syntaxes.  In general I'm -1 on any syntax that puts the
modifiers before the parameter list.  I'd like to see some variation of
318 implemented, though.

Jeff




From ebolonev at mail.ru  Sun Jun 29 18:34:15 2003
From: ebolonev at mail.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:34:15 +1100
Subject: get_file_size
Message-ID: <bdnqri$j72$1@news.rol.ru>

Hi all!

Is there a subj function in the standart library for:

f=open('1','wb')
print len(f)

--
  Egor [ru eo en]





From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Wed Jun 11 12:48:23 2003
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 00:48:23 +0800
Subject: UTF-16 encoding line breaks?
References: <3ee72262$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <7ifzmglfvs.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Richard" == Richard  <richardd at hmgcc.gov.uk> writes:

    Richard> Hi, I have a script which uses the .encode('UTF-16') function
    Richard> to encode a string into UTF-16. However I am having
    Richard> difficulties in putting line breaks into that string. \n is
    Richard> what I normally use but does not appear to become valid UTF-16
    Richard> once encoded. Can anyone tell me what escape command I can use
    Richard> in my string to ensure that I get line breaks in my UTF-16
    Richard> endoded output?

Why you should bother encoding something to UTF-16 before adding the return
characters?  UTF-16 is a strange enough format that is quite clumsy to work
on after it is encoded.  E.g., you have to detect the endian of the string
after it is encoded, since the implementation is free to use any
byte-ordering.  It can also contain surrogate characters, which means 2
16-bit characters can actually represent 1 UCS-4 character.  So basically,
if you want to operate on it, don't encode it yet, or decode it first.

Regards,
Isaac.



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  2 03:03:21 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 01:03:21 -0600
Subject: dictionary issue (and maybe PEP ... depending on the answer)
In-Reply-To: <0wBCa.651$ig1.627675@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>; from dsavitsk@ecpsoftware.com on Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 05:45:32AM +0000
References: <0wBCa.651$ig1.627675@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <20030602010321.A14599@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth dsavitsk:
  [...]
>  >>> [_months[i] for i in _months.keys()]
> 
> The issue is, this consistently returns the months in order. [...]

Heh.  Normally we get people complaining about dicts *not*
providing items in order.

> [...] I don't see 
> any obvious reason that it does, but I can't get it to fail. So,I am 
> wondering if there is a reason, or is it serendipity.

Perhaps the following previous post of mine will make clear why it
happens with this data:
    <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1051064426.6962.python-list%40python.org>

I'd discourage you from relying on this in your code, and
especially from relying on it implicitly.  Something like

    months = [(1, 'January'),
              (2, 'February'),
              # ...
             ]
    monthdict = dict(months)
    monthnames = [name for number, name in months]

also guarantees the ordering of monthnames, but makes that
guarantee not only resistant to any future change of the dict
implementation, but also clear to the reader.

> Assuming that there is not a good reason, the PEP idea is adding a 
> sorted_keys() method to dictionaries which would just return the keys in 
> the same order they would be in by doing this.
> 
>  >>> l = d.keys()
>  >>> l.sort()
> 
> The advantage is that using dictionary keys in list comprehensions would 
> be easier, but other than that it is not too big a deal.

I'd be -1 on this, fwiw.  It's rarely needed in my experience;
when order really does matter, I'd use a list anyway; if I really
need a dict and don't want to use a list, writing
    def sort(iterable):
        L = list(iterable)
        L.sort()
        return L
and asking for
    sort(d.keys())
is just as easy.  And it's just one more thing for dict-like
objects to implement.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                          staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Its force is immeasurable.  Even Computer cannot determine it."
                           -- _Space: 1999_ episode "Black Sun"




From Jim.West at checklogix.com  Thu Jun 19 17:32:33 2003
From: Jim.West at checklogix.com (Jim West)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 15:32:33 -0600
Subject: Need help to grok c extension that needs to use callbacks with data
Message-ID: <1056058353.1021.21.camel@jwest1.corp.hiscorp.net>

Good day all,

  Ok, I'm new to Python but not to programming in general.

  I have a task where I need to implement a C extension to interface to
a third-party DLL (yes, windoze).  I also need to do this "by hand" as
opposed to using something like SWIG.

  So far all my methods work like a charm.  Now I'm trying to implement
some functions that use a pointer-to-function callback params that have
data.

  I've gone over the "RECIPE" that uses qsort and am trying to
extrapolate that example into what I'm doing and am not being successful
at it.

  Python -> C Extension -> MethodWithCallback (void (*userFunc)(unsigned
char *))

  ...and I want the callback function to be a Python function.

  Any and all help is appreciated.

  Thank you.

- Jim





From j.ezequiel at spitech.com  Thu Jun 19 06:40:51 2003
From: j.ezequiel at spitech.com (Ezequiel, Justin)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:40:51 +0800
Subject: Importing/exporting Excel VB modules
Message-ID: <0F757892D113D611BD2E0002559C1FF403D8F2A2@email.spitech.com>

x = ThisWorkbook.Modules.Count does not work for me (Excel 2002)

but the following does

x = ThisWorkbook.VBProject.VBComponents.Count




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun  3 16:18:51 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:18:51 -0600
Subject: Proposed extension to file constructor
In-Reply-To: <20030603182813.GB1366@taral.net>; from taral@taral.net on Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 01:28:13PM -0500
References: <20030603182813.GB1366@taral.net>
Message-ID: <20030603141851.A2017@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Taral:
> I needed to extend popen functionality, so I modified the file
> constructor to optionally take a file descriptor. It was, in my opinion,
> the minimum way to do it while preserving isinstance(x, file).

Why is it necessary to preserve isinstance(x, file) in your usage
scenario?  Most uses of files require only that the object be
sufficiently file-like.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"What I find most baffling about that song is that it was not a hit."
                                          -- Tony Dylan Davis (CKUA)




From goboborz at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 19 18:40:38 2003
From: goboborz at yahoo.com (Gobo Borz)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:40:38 -0500
Subject: ignore this: Re: cgi getlist() problems
References: <684e6e1d.0306180707.a1faa75@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF23BE6.1050408@yahoo.com>

Ignore this post.  This was the first one - it was posted from google. 
Took over 24 hours to get here. In  the mean time I posted direct.  Sorry!

Gobo wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm having a problem with my first Python program.
> 
> I'm coding an html/cgi form that uses rows to capture multiple
> entries, for fields like "name", "phone", "department", etc.  I use
> the same "name=" for every field in the same column.   For example,
> the phone field is named "phone" in every row.
> 
> When I try to get the values with getlist(), empty values don't show
> up in the list.  Because of this, for example,  name(4) and phone(4)
> might be from different rows in the html form depending on what the
> user left blank.  Even if I force a blank with javascript on the
> client side, iterating through the list with a FOR statement still
> ignores the blank values.
> 
> Is there any way to capture these field values such that the rows stay
> in sync?  I may be missing something obvious, because It seems like
> this would be a common problem for anyone coding a multi-row html
> form.
> 
> Thanks, Gobo




From ray at rays-web.com  Thu Jun 12 20:21:14 2003
From: ray at rays-web.com (Ray Smith)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 17:21:14 -0700
Subject: long-term release schedule?
References: <mailman.1054692908.26987.python-list@python.org> <5654fff9.0306112203.6aa1ef99@posting.google.com> <3EE874F2.4042B9E4@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <5654fff9.0306121621.136c8568@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3EE874F2.4042B9E4 at engcorp.com>...
> Ray Smith wrote:

> > I'm looking at introducing Python into a corporate environment and the
> > above statement seems at least a little worrying (the first time I thought
> > about it).
> 
> Why would it be worrying in a corporate environment?  Are you
> worried that the donated time of the developers will stop
> being provided freely to your company?

The worrying aspect is that Python (or any development tool a company uses)
becomes unsupported and "no one" is around (paid or unpaid) to continue 
development.

Open Source always beats closed source since "most likely" others will continue
(at minimum bug fixes) to improve the tool.  
The option is always available to continue development yourself but that would
take I pretty large resource investment.  Small teams usually won't have access
to resources like that (as always with Open Source it's your own choice). 

> "Discontinued" has little meaning in this world.  "Development
> stopped" might have a little more meaning, except that the source
> code is freely available to you to pick up and carry on with any
> enhancements you wish to make, if you no longer want to rely on 
> others to make those enhancements, unpaid, for your company.

You seem to have this idea I'm after a free lunch?
I didn't think my question involved how do I get free development tools and
support???

 
> I think in most corporate environments the concern should be on
> the stability of the product, and with that in mind, consider the
> PBF's (Python Business Forum) focus on Python version 2.2 and 
> making sure it is a long-supported and stable release.  Again,
> free, without your company paying a dime for it (although it
> could become a member of the PBF to help support the effort).

If Python become a tool we used I'd encourage the Company I work for to 
contribute back to the community.  I'm a strong believer of "what goes around 
comes around".
 
> (Note: I use Python in a corporate environment, and I don't 
> really understand your concern.  Commercial software is much less
> dependable than Python has proven to be, both from the point of
> view of the product itself and from the point of view of the 
> community backing it.  Worst case: we grab the source for 2.2
> (or whatever version we want to maintain ourselves) and carry on
> with our own product line, with less concern than we'd have 
> with a commercial product we couldn't get source to.)

I agree with everything you say here.

The point I guess is that when you hear comments something like

"""Guido would need to find commercial backing to continue development on a 
'Python 3.0' version"""

you think about the long term future and improvements to Python.


and my question was ...

If bug fixes where the only changes to "core Python language" in the next 5-10
years would Python still be a good choice?

I pose that question because I suspect the answer is yes, since alot of the 
added value of Python is now coming from the external projects.


The bottom line is I'm sick to death of priopriety companies changing the 
playing field every 5 years and needing to rework large portions of code.
Mostly these products we use (from the company everyone loves to hate) is 
poorly designed, unstable and difficult to use.

Open Source is still considered a risky choose by most managers and I have to 
be very careful how I attempt to introduce it here.  I have successfully 
introudused a couple of small open source tools, but I'm basically going for
the big one now and planning to use Python for a large long term project 
(I've just got to convince management now ... which won't be easy).

Regards,

Ray Smith



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun 16 10:27:15 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:27:15 -0400
Subject: Jews give biological weapons to slave children . . . .
References: <3EED5A7B.2080408@mybody.com>
Message-ID: <3EEDD3C3.50551E8B@engcorp.com>

Damn _right_!  You can't keep us slave children down!



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jun  6 19:30:56 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 19:30:56 -0400
Subject: id(a) == id(b) and a is not b --> bug?
References: <mailman.1054855286.16163.python-list@python.org> <bbq68j$93j$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <bbqudr$cfm$0@216.39.172.122> <bbr0ev$h3d$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bbr87g$8pt$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <bbr0ev$h3d$0 at 216.39.172.122>, Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> wrote:
>
>I would have thought wrong ;-/ Just tried it. Note to self: test before
>posting ;-/

Welcome to the club, pal.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Jun 19 03:37:59 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:37:59 GMT
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
References: <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6@posting.google.com> <eppstein-0047EB.09403118062003@news.service.uci.edu> <3EF0AAFB.DDA5F555@engcorp.com> <eppstein-1DFD94.11562718062003@news.service.uci.edu> <3v3Ia.109349$pR3.2389728@news1.tin.it> <bcrl56$98p$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <rLdIa.204989$g92.4212255@news2.tin.it>

Anton Vredegoor wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
> 
>>> [x for x, y in zip(L, [lambda x:x]+L) if x != y]
>>> 
>>> There must be a better way to do this than with a lambda.
> 
> <snip lambda>
> 
>>What about L[:1] + [x for x,y in zip(L[1:],L[:-1]) if x!=y] as
>>a less-tricky variant of your list-comprehension?  Does need L
>>to be a non-empty list (not another sequence, not an empty one),
>>but that might be acceptable perhaps...
> 
> Nice idea, there seems to be no problem with L an empty list, but
> there would be a problem with L a tuple. However that can be

RIght, an empty list gives no problems (the fail-soft feature of
slicing helps once again).  The simplest way to have this work
for a tuple as well as a list is clearly to change it to:

type(L)( list(L[:1]) + [x for x,y in zip(L[1:],L[:-1]) if x!=y] )

assuming you want the result to be the same type as L (if not,
just omit the type(L)( ... ) call around the core expression),
while, as I've seen pointed out in another post, your variant:

>    [x for x,y in zip(L,L[1:]+L[:-1]) if x!=y] or list(L[:1])

would erroneously omit the last element if it equals the first
one.  E.g., consider L == [3,2,3]; zip's arguments are then
[3,2,3] and [2,3]+[3,2] == [2,3,3,2] so zip's result is
[ (3,2), (2,3), (3,3) ] and the LC produces [3,2], erroneously
dropping the final 3.

In my version, I'm zipping [2,3] and [3,2], and concatenating
a leading [3] to the result, so no dropping occurs here.


Alex




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jun 13 09:14:30 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:14:30 -0400
Subject: user authentication interface in python
References: <3cf72d52.0306130501.6acb9984@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE9CE36.9C81D81A@engcorp.com>

scn wrote:
> 
> hello.  does anyone have a high-level example of how to implement
> 'secure' user authentication interface for web users in python.
> 
> i am in the process of designing a simple web application that
> requires user authentication and i remembered that php typically held
> system authentication information in a separate file and included this
> file in the main interface script.

How secure do you need it?  Will this be processing any financial
information, or critical private information of individuals, or
merely passwords for access to a non-critical system?

The only options you probably have for "real" security is SSL
(like when you are paying with a credit card and hit an https://
page instead of an http:// one), or using IPSec to establish
secure channels to your server.

If you want lesser security, you should probably give more detail
about the level you want.  You can do anything from protecting
against casual attacks (e.g. using the Basic Auth feature of HTTP),
right up to encryption with certificates to verify keys, with SSL.

Finally, if you know exactly how the PHP stuff worked, and just want 
the same level of security, what's stopping you from doing the same
thing with Python?

-Peter



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Wed Jun 18 18:21:18 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 23:21:18 +0100
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com> <mailman.1055919632.16586.python-list@python.org> <rfVHa.105923$pR3.2320136@news1.tin.it> <yfs65n39z72.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <just-0D60BB.18081218062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <yfsof0v880w.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <mailman.1055967874.8212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yfsfzm781sx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

>     Alexander> Maybe I'm a bit blinkered, but right now I can't see how
> 
>     Alexander>     dict(foo=1, bar='sean')
> 
>     Alexander> is so much better/more convinient than
> 
>     Alexander>     {'foo':1, bar:'sean'}
> 
>     Alexander> that it justifies forcing people to learn a new redundant and
>     Alexander> less general dictionary creation syntax that at least hinders
>     Alexander> customizing dictionary instantiation like in
> 
> I don't think it would normally be used that way.  Instead, consider you
> have a preexisting dictionary and want a copy:
> 
>     >>> d1 = {'foo':1, 'bar':'sean'}
>     >>> d2 = dict(**d1)
>     >>> d2 == d1
>     True
> 
> That's a one-liner where the equivalent
> 
>     d2 = {}
>     d2.update(d1)
> 
> is a two-liner and likely slower.

Uhm,

     d2 = d1.copy() ?

'as



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Tue Jun 24 12:53:52 2003
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:53:52 +0200
Subject: tkinter urgent help request
References: <3033499.1056382165@dbforums.com> <mailman.1056466181.31637.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bd9va0$o4j$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

Martin Franklin wrote:
> You just tried to pack the scrollbar inside a Canvas widget.  The 
> scrollbar needs to be in the
> root widget I would think :-)
> 
>    scroll = Scrollbar(root)
>    scroll.pack(side=RIGHT,expand=1,fill=BOTH)

Well spotted Martin: I didn't see this one...

The funniest thing is that it actually works (well, at least using a canvas 
window instead of packing):

----------------------------
from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()

cnv = Canvas(root, width=400, height=400)
cnv.pack(fill=BOTH,expand=1)

scroll = Scrollbar(cnv, command=cnv.xview, orient=HORIZONTAL)
cnv.create_window(200, 400, anchor=S, window=scroll, width=400)
cnv.configure(xscrollcommand=scroll.set, scrollregion=(0, 0, 1000, 1000))

root.mainloop()
----------------------------

One of the most useless script I ever wrote... Sorry: it's a bit late here...
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jun  8 14:10:15 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 20:10:15 +0200
Subject: cPickle.load() question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055092639.8954.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1055086642.5723.python-list@python.org> <3ee366b4$0$49108$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1055092639.8954.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ee37beb$0$49098$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Dan Jones wrote:
> Irmen de Jong wrote:
> 
>> Dan Jones wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all!
>>>
>>> I'm new to python and am trying to write a simple program to keep a 
>>> list of my customers and generate pdf invoices for them (haven't 
>>> gotten that far yet, any pdf module recommendations?). I have defined 
>>> a customer class and a function to pickle them into a file. I'm just 
>>> not sure how to go about reading the customer file back in. Is there 
>>> a way to iterate over a pickled file and cPickle.load() each entry 
>>> into a list?
>>
>>
>>
>> Just pickle the whole list instead of each customer object separately!
>> Then the unpickling will return your whole list of customer objects :-)
>>
>> --Irmen
>>
>>
> Thanks a lot, I didn't even think of doing it that way. :)

While pickling the list is certainly easier, I would still like to
comment that you can pickle.load() multiple times from a file object
if that file object contains multiple pickled objects.

If you've pickled X customers to a file, where the first pickled
object is an integer specifying the number of customers, you can do:

number = pickle.load(myFile)
for i in range(number):
	customer = pickle.load(myFile)
	....

-- Irmen




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jun 27 10:51:14 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:51:14 GMT
Subject: How to memoize functions?
References: <3efb54b3$1_2@corp-news.newsgroups.com> <pan.2003.06.26.21.08.18.735289@unice.fr> <3efc5383_6@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <CRYKa.333831$3n5.243865@news2.central.cox.net>

"Chris Reedy" <creedy at mitretek.org> wrote in message
news:3efc5383_6 at corp.newsgroups.com...
> Jerome Alet wrote:
> > Le Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:29:07 -0400, Chris Reedy a ?crit :
> >
> >
> >>The obvious way to memoize a function would be to keep a dictionary with
> >>keys being tuples (or maybe dictio naries) of previous argument lists
> >>and values being the results of the previous computations.
> >>
> >>Unfortunately, this will really mess up garbage collection, since
> >>objects that are arguments could never be collected.
> >
> >
> > first I must say that my answer is probably completely stupid.
> >
> > however why would you want to use the original arguments tuple as a key
?
>
> Actually, I chose that just because it was the most obvious. The next
> choice was a tuple of the ids of the arguments ...
>
That wouldn't have been a very good choice, however, since memoizing
requires checks for argument-set equality, not argument identity.

> > depending on the computational intensity of your original function, why
> > not compute some sort of hash (like an hex md5sum) on all the arguments
> > (converted to strings and concatenated) ?
>
> This is certainly a possibility. However ...
>
> > this way your original arguments would still be garbage collectable
(well,
> > at least I suppose), since only the hash would be used for the key.
>
> That's true. Unfortunately, that misses the other half of the problem
> (which, admittedly, I didn't mention) which is that I would also like to
> be able to collect the results of the function, which could be complex
> data structures, as well as the arguments (which could be other
> instances of the same complex structures).
>
Well, if you weren't collecting the results you wouldn't be memoizing, would
you?

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From yvan_charpentier at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 19 13:18:12 2003
From: yvan_charpentier at hotmail.com (yvan)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 10:18:12 -0700
Subject: mxODBC, DriverConnect() but not on default DB?
References: <9ee55987.0306171712.18afca69@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9ee55987.0306190918.7bf8be9b@posting.google.com>

Write DATABASE=OTHER_DB , not DB_NAME=OTHER_DB

Thanks Marc-Andre Lemburg,  


yvan_charpentier at hotmail.com (yvan) wrote in message news:<9ee55987.0306171712.18afca69 at posting.google.com>...
> Here is my set up:
> The MSSQL server is sets permission for the user USER with a default
> access to the db DEFAULT_DB.
> I have another db OTHER_DB. And USER has full rights on everything.
>  
> self.db = DB.Connect("Test", USER, PW)
> ---> Connects to the correct DB, but i don't want to have to define
> the DSN file, so i want to use DriverConnect
> 
> self.db = DB.DriverConnect('DRIVER={SQL
> Server};SERVER=server;DB_NAME=OTHER_DB;UID=USER;PWD=PW;')
> ---> Connects, but to DEFAULT_DB!
>  
> Shouldn't DB_NAME=OTHER_DB override the default?
> How do i use DriverConnect() to connect on a DB which is not the
> default one?
> 
> Thanks for any help,
>  
> -Yvan



From webmaster at thuswise.org  Sat Jun 28 12:13:12 2003
From: webmaster at thuswise.org (Thuswise Webmaster)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 16:13:12 +0000
Subject: ANN: TOGA (Timetables Optimised with Genetic Algorithms) v 0.01
Message-ID: <mailman.1056814382.22487.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Introducing the first release of TOGA
=====================================

TOGA stands for "Timetables Optimised with Genetic Algorithms".
It is ultimately intended as an application for non-technical users
which automatically generates timetables for schools and institutions.

This version provides a framework for future development. It is a
fully-functioning command line application written in the Python
programming language. It is extensively documented, and accompanied by
a suite of unit tests.

The code is released under the GNU Public License. We are actively
seeking feedback from Python programmers, workers in Evolutionary
Algorithms, and potential users.

* The main project page is at:
http://www.thuswise.co.uk/toga.html

* There is a more detailed introduction to TOGA here:
http://www.thuswise.co.uk/toga/docs/intro.html

* Future plans for the code:
http://www.thuswise.co.uk/toga/docs/roadmap.html

* Download the source from:
http://www.thuswise.co.uk/toga_down.html

Future announcements about TOGA will be made in
comp.lang.python.announce. Please send an e-mail to
the "reply-to" address to be alerted to new developments.

=========================
THUSWISE LTD
http://www.thuswise.co.uk








From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 12 12:02:44 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 16:02:44 GMT
Subject: inheritance
References: <bca77e$aq2$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bca874$cop$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

"Duncan Smith" <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bca77e$aq2$1 at newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I'm in the process of subclassing some functionality of a class that was
> getting a bit too big.  But a lot of the inherited functions (eg.
__mul__())
> return objects of the parent type.  Initially I had the following code...
[snip]
>     def __mul__(self, other):
>         res = table.NumTable.__mul__(self, other)
>
>         return Table(res.values, res.variables)
[snip]
> Is there any alternative to explicitly overloading each of the parent
class
> functions that return a new instance?


Well, if in the parent class' __mul__ you do something like this:

    def __mul__(self, other):
            # do table.NumTable specific multiplication
            return self.__class__(res.values, res.variables)

Then, when your subclasses use __mul__, the return instance will be of their
class type, e.g.

table2 = table0 * table1  # where table0 and table1 are instances of class
Table
# table2 will also be an instance of class Table, and not of table.NumTable






From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jun 20 20:13:14 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:13:14 -0700
Subject: newbie: good reasons for learning Python?
References: <3ef37a28$0$306$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3EF3A31A.5574A0B4@alcyone.com>

somaBoyMX wrote:

> I've been checking out some Python tutorials on the web, it looks cool
> enough. I'm already fairly good at JavaScript, ActionScript and PHP
> and now
> I'd like to tackle Python. However, I still need to be convinced
> before I
> decide to dedicate my precious free time to this. So I'd like to hear
> some
> convincing arguments for Python.

I'd say the thought process here should be reversed.  You say that you'd
"like to tackle Python," so the real question is why do you want to and
what do you hope to gain from using Python?  If we knew why you were
thinking about using Python, it would be more helpful to tell you
whether Python would be good (or bad) for that goal.

There's a Python tutorial available on the python.org Web site; this is
about the best introduction to Python you could have, and you can go
through it in only a few hours at the most.  (Much faster, if you
arleady know other languages.)  Try reading through it and see if you
like it; that will be a far more convincing argument than anything we
could make.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ A good indignation brings out all one's powers.
\__/  Ralph Waldo Emerson



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun 18 12:36:39 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:36:39 -0400
Subject: How to permanently remove __import__?
References: <DVKHa.5891$111.3270@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3EEF8C0C.23E93E18@engcorp.com> <lhMHa.6612$111.509@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3EEF970C.4630A21@engcorp.com> <Js_Ha.125571$G_.33991@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3EF08043.F5692E2F@engcorp.com> <xA%Ha.14056$111.12652@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3EF09517.F63FBE2E@engcorp.com>

martin z wrote:
> 
> > If you do the custom interpreter you might be able to make fewer
> > changes, and be confident of much greater security, than if you
> > try to put all the restrictions in from a higher level.  Just a
> > thought...
> 
> A custom interpreter would be ideal if it weren't for three things:
> first, I've looked at the code for Python's filesystem functions.  They were
> not meant to be human-readable except possibly to Guido himself.  Playing
> with them would be less than fun.  Second, when newer versions of Python
> become available I don't want to have to recode the whole anti-filesystem
> component.  Third: it would just be nicer if I could work within the
> existing Python framework.
> 
> I don't suppose there's a compiler variable for "no filesystem" eh?

Undef Linux I think it's spelled "chroot", isn't it?  :-)



From alienoid at is.lg.ua  Mon Jun  9 10:25:24 2003
From: alienoid at is.lg.ua (Ruslan Spivak)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 17:25:24 +0300
Subject: xmlrpc client on windows + https: error
Message-ID: <3EE498D4.3080206@is.lg.ua>

Hello, python users!

I've installed Python-2.2.2 on WinXP and trying to make xmlrp request 
with https

import xmlrpclib
s = xmlrpclib.Server("https://192.168.1.1:81")
s.printRes("test")

i get an error:
.....
Your version of httplib doesn't support HTTPS
Can you tell me what to do? How to make it work on windows, cause on my 
linux box it's ok with python2.2.2.

Your help is very, very appreciated.

Best regards,
Ruslan





From dradul at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  9 11:20:36 2003
From: dradul at yahoo.com (Alejandro Lopez-Valencia)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 10:20:36 -0500
Subject: Size of Cygwin's distribution
Message-ID: <bc28jj$e2b99$1@ID-99513.news.dfncis.de>

Well, I am here downloading the 2.2.3 distribution that Jason Tishler
so gracefully makes available to us Cygwin users. (Good work!)

Yet, I do have a little complain: size. Why is so big? There is a lot
of unnecessary bloat caused by including byte-compiled files, both
optimized and unoptimized. It is incredibly simple to have Cygwin's
post-install script to generate all the byte-compiled files at
installation file using python, compileall.py and a small shell
script. Not everyone uses broadband!

Python 2.2.2-7 distribution is 5.204.820 bytes in my disk, using bzip2
compression. If I delete the byte-compiled files, the size reduces to
3.324.165 bytes! Python 2.3 will be *much* bigger and any size saving
is a blessing for us modem users.

Cheers

Alejo




From chris.lyon at spritenote.co.uk  Sat Jun 14 10:32:33 2003
From: chris.lyon at spritenote.co.uk (Chris Lyon)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 07:32:33 -0700
Subject: OT: swearing (was: RE: OnFileOpent(self, event))
References: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434107@iron.ima.umn.edu> <mailman.1055521780.6337.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d232c5e.0306140632.2df3e776@posting.google.com>

Your neigbours must hold you in high esteem...



From pxtl at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 17 18:06:09 2003
From: pxtl at hotmail.com (martin z)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:06:09 GMT
Subject: How to permanently remove __import__?
References: <DVKHa.5891$111.3270@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3EEF8C0C.23E93E18@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <lhMHa.6612$111.509@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

Rexec tried to do too much is my understanding - I'm just redirecting Import
into a new (custom) filesystem.  I haven't looked at Bastion.





From mgerrans at mindspring.com  Tue Jun 17 03:05:50 2003
From: mgerrans at mindspring.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:05:50 -0700
Subject: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions? (os.chmod() not   working properly?)
References: <mailman.1055816850.28797.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcmeka$rtm$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>

I thought that the the stat module was supposed to help for this kind of
thing, eg.:

os.chmod( filename, stat.S_IREAD )

Or was I just fooled because it looks plausible?    It *seems* to do the
right thing.

Anyway, I have found that to full and reliable usage of file attributes in
Windows, it is necessary to shift to the platform-specific route an and use
the win32file module (GetFileAttributes(), SetFileAttributes(), plus
win32con's FILE_ATTRIBUTE_* constants).

- Matt






From iamshady at rediffmail.com  Thu Jun  5 03:01:17 2003
From: iamshady at rediffmail.com (Jim Shady)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 00:01:17 -0700
Subject: Help with dictionary
Message-ID: <9afd3f36.0306042301.5243a9e8@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I have a dictionary of the sort:

{(1, (21353, 21418)): 3900, (2, (53006, 53164)): 3800, (0, (19697,
19763)): 4100}

I need to re-sort this dictionary with the first element of the tuple
in the keys. A sorted dictionary of the above would be:

{(0, (19697, 19763)): 4100, (1, (21353, 21418)): 3900, (2, (53006,
53164)): 3800}

Could somebody help me with the algorithm/logic to accomplish this?

Thanks in advance!

Jim



From leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au  Mon Jun  2 06:11:14 2003
From: leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au (Leo)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:11:14 +1000
Subject: python IDLE on win2000 doesn't startup
Message-ID: <bbf7r6$27sm$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

hi all

sorry, just a silly beginners question:

i have downloaded python 2.2.2 for win.

now i try to start the idle. it doesn't work: no screen, no msg. :-(

iried ptyhonw.exe seperatly.no luck even a direct command line
    C:\Python\Python22\pythonw.exe "C:\Python\Python22\Tools\idle\idle.pyw"
doesn't work.

at least the command line python (python.exe) works.

any idea wjy the IDLE doesn want to run? do i have to install TkInter
separately???

many thanks, leooo





From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jun 18 19:58:21 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 00:58:21 +0100
Subject: RPM bind and TGZ bind
References: <mailman.1055968233.20657.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87wufjvsyq.fsf@pobox.com>

Carlos Moreira <duduca007 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Two things:
> 
> - I need a Python bind to rpm format (exist?)

http://www.google.com/search?q=python+rpm+bindings

Remember distutils, too.


> - I need a Python bind to tgz (I know that this exist,
> but I don't remember the link)

Hint: something beginning with G.


John



From gupt_vive at hotmail.com  Wed Jun  4 09:17:06 2003
From: gupt_vive at hotmail.com (vivek kumar)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 18:47:06 +0530
Subject: Not getting all keys in FieldStorage (Multipart form data)
Message-ID: <Law15-F50O323rI2EYQ00046320@hotmail.com>

>From: "Graeme Matthew" <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au>
>To: "vivek kumar" <gupt_vive at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Not getting all keys in FieldStorage (Multipart form data)
>Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:56:00 +1000
>
>sorry, the code i use is at work andits been a while what about ?
>shutil.copyfileobj(base64.encode(form['book_image'].file.read()),destination
>,1024)

encode takes two inputs : the input file and the output file. Anyway I tried 
that also but it still didn't worked :-(. I tried base64.encodestring also 
but :-(.......

Thanks and Kind Regards
Vivek Kumar

_________________________________________________________________
Race along with NK. The fastest Indian 
http://server1.msn.co.in/sp03/tataracing/index.asp Feel the thrill!





From michaels at rd.bbc.co.uk  Tue Jun  3 12:41:05 2003
From: michaels at rd.bbc.co.uk (Michael Sparks)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 17:41:05 +0100
Subject: Yield inside try...finally
Message-ID: <bbiisd$76k$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>

I've been working with wrapping up network client functionality as a
generator recently, and hit a "niceness"/"cleanness" speedbump.

What I'd *like* to do (which doesn't work) is:

try:
   sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM);
   try:
      sock.setblocking(0); yield stage.done(0)
      try:
         sock.connect((self.host, self.port)); yield stage.done(1)
         yield newComponent([self.setupCSA(sock)])
         while self.waitCSAClose():
            yield stage.current(2)
         yield stage.done(2)
      finally:
         result = s.shutdown(1) ; yield stage.done(3)
   finally:
      sock.close() ; yield stage.done(4)
except error, e:
   # Would handle error more interestingly here
   print stage.lastdone, e

Where stage is just something to track where we got to.

The above code of course doesn't work, but is the tidiest/nicest I've
got so far. The reason I have this format is due to the various socket
calls can all raise error exceptions which overlap, but should have
various things happen to close the connection etc to be nice.

Two alternatives I've tried are:

def runClient():
   try:
      sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM) ; yield 1
      try:
         sock.setblocking(0) ; yield 2
         sock.connect((self.host, self.port)) ; yield 3
         yield newComponent([self.setupCSA(sock)])
         while self.waitCSAClose():
            yield 4
         try:
            result = s.shutdown(1) ; yield 5
         except error, e:
            failpoint = "shutdown",5
      except error,e
         failpoint = "connect", 3
      try:
         sock.close() ; yield 6
      except error, e
         failpoint = "close", 6
   except error, e:
      failpoint = "creation", 1
   if failpoint:
      raise "Client Error", failpoint, e


And..
   def runClient(self,sock=None,restart=0):
      stage = stagedFunc(initialStage=restart)
      try:
         if stage.do(0):
            sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
            sock.setblocking(0); yield stage.done()

         if stage.do(1):
            sock.connect((self.host, self.port)); yield stage.done()
            yield newComponent([self.setupCSA(sock)])
            while self.waitCSAClose():
               yield stage.done()

         if stage.do(2):
            result = s.shutdown(1) ; yield stage.done()

         if stage.do(3):
            sock.close() ; yield stage.done()

      except error, e:
         if sock: # Failed stage 1 or 2
            for v in self.runClient(sock=sock,restart=3):  yield v
         raise "Client Socket Failed",(e,self.stage.lastattempted())

Where...

class stagedFunc:
   def __init__(self,initialStage=0):
      self.nextstage = initialStage
   def do(self,thisstage):
      if self.nextstage==thisstage:
          self.nextstage +=1
          return True
      return False
   def done(self):
      return self.nextstage-1
   lastattempted=done

Given these 3 versions, the one not allowed (the try..finally) one
strikes me as the cleanest.

I'm posting this really for a couple of reasons - a) to note that
try..yield..finally would occasionally be a really useful thing
to have (*) b) Any comments on which of the two alternatives is "better"
for whatever reasons would be appreciated. (I _am_ aware of Twisted
BTW, this is part of a deliberate wheel reinvention :)

(*) I've read Guido's comments in
    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-June/015500.html
    but these appear to mainly relate to the "def" keyword, and the
    yield issue is in passing.

Any thoughts much appreciated!

Regards,


Michael 
-- 
Michael.Sparks at rd.bbc.co.uk    
British Broadcasting Corporation, Research and Development
Kingswood Warren, Surrey KT20 6NP

This message (and any attachments) may contain personal views
which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.





From dwblas at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 20 16:13:41 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (DavidW Blaschke)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:13:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: os.path weirdness
Message-ID: <20030620201341.79703.qmail@web21604.mail.yahoo.com>

Debuggers have their place, but for simple progams a
print statement or two can tell you what you want
without a lot of other stuff that you don't want.  No
need to feel awkward about that in the opinion of this
individual programmer.

> --- In python-list at yahoogroups.com, jjl at p... (John
> J. Lee) 
> wrote:
> > Jeff Layton <jeffrey.b.layton at l...> writes:
> > [...]
> > >     Also, thanks for the comments below. I
> haven't used 
> the
> > > debugger at all yet. I'm an old fashioned kind
> of coder 
> that
> > > uses lots of "write, printf, print" to debug :)
> I really 
> do
> > > need to learn the debugger though.
> > 
> > I don't think so.  print statements are a
> perfectly good way 
> of
> > debugging Python code.  One of the benefits of an 
> interpreted
> > language.
> > 
> > 
> > John
> > -- 
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com




From tassilo.parseval at rwth-aachen.de  Tue Jun 10 06:31:30 2003
From: tassilo.parseval at rwth-aachen.de (Tassilo v. Parseval)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 10:31:30 GMT
Subject: PLease help with my web site
References: <bV8Fa.9753$ly.3447270@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <jXgFa.2848$JN6.446392@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <bc4c22$64i$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>

Also sprach Heinz Wiggeshoff:

><a at b.c0m> wrote in message
> news:bV8Fa.9753$ly.3447270 at news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
>> Please help me with my web site www.ratepcmods.com and go there
> 
> MORONIC SPAMMER

The posting in question isn't carried by my newsfeed so I never came to
see the OP. However, you did so you should have a look at the header of
the posting and send a message to the given X-abuse address (including
full headers) if any. Such a massiv X-post plus the attempt to redirect
users to his side clearly is in violation of any networking charter I
know.

Tassilo
-- 
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval



From legere at ll.mit.edu  Mon Jun 16 15:18:59 2003
From: legere at ll.mit.edu (Ronald Legere)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:18:59 -0400
Subject: "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" in Python?
References: <a86143fb.0306160718.75cd6216@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <YGoHa.61$Du1.14@llnews.ll.mit.edu>

Hmm, interesting. For most things in the early chapters, I think  you could
do it, with python >= 2.2 of course for the nested scopes.  There is perhaps
some
concern about lambda, in that in python lambda is a bit restricted, but I
think you can work around that. I may have to try a few of the more
interesting
examples....
After all,   SICP doesn't use macros or continuations, so I think it should
be possible.
If you get any direct replies of someone doing this, let me know.

Cheers,
   Ron

"Peter Olsen" <pcolsen at comcast.net> wrote in message
news:a86143fb.0306160718.75cd6216 at posting.google.com...
> Has anyone translated some of the programs in Abelson and Sussman's
> "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" from Scheme into
> Python.
>
> Python has replace Scheme as my favorite language, but I doubt that
> anything will ever replace SICP as my favorite CS book.  I'd like to
> see the two melded, but probably I will ever have the time to do it
> myself.
>
> (If you respond, please send a copy to me directly.  Thanks!)
>
> Peter Olsen
> pcolsen (at) comcast (dot) net
>
> Engineering is the art of using a professional knowledge of
> mathematics and the physical sciences to improve the quality of life.





From dan_griffith at sprynet.com  Wed Jun 25 11:20:11 2003
From: dan_griffith at sprynet.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:20:11 -0400
Subject: any benchmark results for python?
References: <b7h40n$28s$1@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <bdcelc$1l1$1@gateway.northgrum.com>

Check out technical report #2, and the refereed journal papers #6 and #7
at

http://www.ipd.uka.de/~prechelt/Biblio/#pspeTR

   --dang


J Li wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am looking for benchmark test results for python, in comparison to other
> languages like Perl or Java or C++
> 
> thanks
> 
> jylimd(at)yahoo(dot)com
> 
> 




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jun 10 14:55:12 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:55:12 -0500
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
In-Reply-To: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com>
References: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16102.10640.855883.967908@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    ...

    >> 3) Discovering filter() and map().

    >> 4) Fortifying classes with __setattr__() and friends.

    >> 4.5) Leaving if:, elif:, and else: on their own lines for fear of
    >>      scorn or deprecation.

    5) Discovering list comprehensions and then dumping filter() and map().

:-)

S




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jun  4 07:27:42 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:27:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com> <PNdDa.824522$OV.780836@rwcrnsc54> <bbjpt9$p0q$1@panix3.panix.com> <1ieDa.35049$DV.60225@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <mailman.1054701247.26488.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93907DB5984EBduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote in 
news:mailman.1054701247.26488.python-list at python.org:

> But you could also write your own function, and use it in a
> metaclass-like way, e.g.:
> 
>     def fooDoc(f):
>         f.__doc__ = "Bob's your uncle."
>         return f
> 
>     class Klass(object):
>         def meth(this, that) [fooDoc]:
>             pass
> 

Or better:

def Doc(docstring, **kw):
    def fDoc(f):
        f.__doc__ = docstring
        f.__dict__.update(kw)
        return f

class Klass(object):
    def meth(this, that) [Doc("Bob's your uncle.", Author="me")]:
        pass

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jun  2 14:12:45 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 18:12:45 GMT
Subject: [OT] Inexpensive virtual domain host for penurious friend's low traffic static html site?
Message-ID: <bbg42t$8bd$0@216.39.172.122>

I've heard some provide such free hosting as part of domain reg/dns accounts.
Can anyone suggest such a service to recommend to a friend? Or a better place to ask?
TVMIA.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Sat Jun 28 16:19:17 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 28 Jun 2003 13:19:17 -0700
Subject: manipulating PowerPoint with Python?
References: <5SYKa.713$Gf3.2535@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> <bdhros$kl2$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0306281219.42340ae4@posting.google.com>

I dont know of any package which does that.

If you want to just dump the images out of a ppt, you can use
this recipe in ASPN.
  
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/189862

Searching in the vaults of parnassus(http://www.vex.net/parnassus/)  
and in freshmeat.net might help you.

~Anand


"Aur?lien G?ron" <ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca> wrote in message news:<bdhros$kl2$1 at biggoron.nerim.net>...
> > Hi.  Has anyone ever written scripts to extract data from PowerPoint using
> > Python?  I know I could dredge through the VB examples in MSDN, and
> > translate, but if someone's already done this, I'd be grateful for a few
> > examples.  (I have slides done in PPT that I want to convert to simple
> > HTML --- using "Save as HTML" in PPT creates a lot more goo than I want to
> > have to wade through.)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Greg
> 
> Couldn't you use "Save as HTML" in PPT and then write a simple parser that
> would remove the goo?  I really don't know which is better because I haven't
> seen your ppt generated HTML files, but it's another direction you may want
> to look at.
> 
> BTW, you may want to check out:
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-htmllib.html
> 
> Or find some other parser:
> http://www.google.com/search?q=python+html+parser
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Aur?lien



From cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov  Thu Jun  5 17:06:44 2003
From: cnetzer at mail.arc.nasa.gov (Chad Netzer)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 14:06:44 -0700
Subject: changing icon of a Tkinter window
In-Reply-To: <bboa2p$pp5$2@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
References: <bboa2p$pp5$2@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>
Message-ID: <1054847203.661.9.camel@sayge.arc.nasa.gov>

On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 13:49, Federico wrote:
> Please can someone give me an example on how to change the icon of a Tkinter
> window ? I use python 2.2.3 under mswindows...

Well, here is a piece of code from a program I wrote.

win.wm_iconbitmap( "@canvas_icon.xbm" )

where "win" is a widget, and 'canvas_icon.xbm' is a filename of an X
bitmap.

Back in the day, I look for a way of doing it with pipes, or file like
objects, etc. but no such luck.  Perhaps Tk has added some features
since then.  If you don't want permanent files, you could write
temporary files and delete them.


-- 

Chad Netzer
(any opinion expressed is my own and not NASA's or my employer's)





From stojek at part-gmbh.de  Mon Jun 23 09:17:47 2003
From: stojek at part-gmbh.de (Marcus Stojek)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:17:47 +0200
Subject: decoding video-/teletext with python
Message-ID: <85vdfvctr1hem0oq3b275e6gm5ddl7a4kf@4ax.com>

Hi,

I want to read and decode the data that come along with the tv-signal
(videotext or teletext). Are there any python packages or examples
available ?

The only thing I found is alevt, but that's C and Linux. Couldn't be
worse for me :-)

Thanks,
marcus



From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Jun 16 03:34:21 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 07:34:21 GMT
Subject: raw strings under windows
References: <DgwGa.47757$Io.4419696@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <TTVGa.91760$pR3.1949046@news1.tin.it> <bcirc6$ss3$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <1qeHa.95656$pR3.2051375@news1.tin.it>

Bengt Richter wrote:
   ...
>>> path = r"c:\python23\"
>>> 
>>> I get a syntax error, unexpected EOL with singlequoted string.  It was
>>> my (mis?) understanding that raw strings did not process escaped
>>> characters?
>>
>>They don't, in that the backslash remains in the string resulting from
>>the raw literal, BUT so does the character right after the backslash,
> That seems like a contradiction to me. I.e., the logic that says to
> include "...the character right after the backslash, unconditionally."
> must be noticing (processing) backslashes.

Noticing, yes; processing, no.  That's using the fundamental meaning
of the verb "process" as given e.g. by the American Heritage dictionary:

To prepare, treat, or convert by subjecting to a special process: [eg]
process ore to obtain minerals.

In raw string literals, backslashes are not prepared, are not treated,
are not converted, and are not subjected to a special process.  Thus,
it makes sense to say they are not processed.  You may be favoring a
different nuance of the meaning of the verb "to process" (for example,
"to gain an understanding or acceptance of; come to terms with; [eg]
processed the traumatic event in therapy") but I think the "prepare,
treat or convert" one is primary and a sounder basis for the CS usage.


>>unconditionally.  As a result, a raw string literal cannot end with an
>>odd number of backslashes.  If they did otherwise, it would instead be
>>impossible to include a single quote character in a single-quoted raw
> So? Those cases would be 99.99% easy to get around with alternative
> quotes, especially considering that """ and ''' are alternative quotes.

To echo you, "so?".  The use case for the design of raw string literals
is regular-expression patterns.  Why cause ANY problems for whatever
fraction of RE patterns, when the current design choice causes no issue
with any valid RE pattern?  Note that a valid RE pattern can never end
with an odd number of backslashes.


>>string literal, etc.  Raw string literals are designed mainly to ease
>>the task of entering regular expressions, and for that purpose an odd
>>number of ending backslashes is never needed, while making inclusion of
>>quote characters harder _would_ be an issue, so the design choice was
>>easy to make.
> ISTM only inclusion of same-as-initial quote characters at the end would
> be a problem. Otherwise UIAM triple quotes take care of all but sequences
> with embedded triple quotes, which are pretty unusual, and pretty easy to
> spell alternatively (e.g. in tokenizer-concatenated pieces, with adjacent
> string literals separated by optional whitespace).

Just as obviously, it's even easier to "spell alternatively" a string
constant that ends with an odd number of backslashes.  The only issue is,
which use case should be subjected to this minor annoyance (of not being
directly expressible with a raw string literal): the intended one, RE
patterns (for which backslashes can well be actually needed and using
raw string literals thus makes sense), or "DOS filenames" (for which
backslashes can generally be advantageously replaced by plain slashes,
in addition to other "alternative spellings")?

As I said, this is an EASY design choice to make.  And if you can't see
it (I suspect you see it perfectly well and are just taking an opportunity
to start some useless argument) then there isn't much I can do about it:
the art of making the right tradeoffs is exactly that, an art, and the
main quality of Python is that the many design choices that add up to it
have been made consistently, intelligently, and elegantly.


> Was the design choice made before triple quotes? Otherwise what is the use
> case that would cause real difficulty? Of course, now there is a
> backwards-compatibility constraint, so that r"""xxxx\"""" must mean
> r'xxxx\"' and not induce a syntax error.

You're welcome to dig into the archives to find out exactly when triple
quoting was introducing wrt when raw string literals were introduced.  But
even if they were introduced simultaneously, what does that matter?


>>Of course people who use raw string literals to represent DOS paths might
>>wish otherwise, but as has been pointed out it's not a big problem in
>>any case -- not only, as you note:
>>
>>> Of course
>>> path = "c:\\python23\\"
>>> 
>>> works just fine.
> 
> I wouldn't mind a raw-string format that really did treat backslashes
> as ordinary characters. Perhaps upper case R could introduce that. E.g.,
> 
>    path = R"c:\python23\"

Then write a PEP proposing it.  You know perfectly well that such drastic
changes as additions to Python's syntax don't come about except via the
PEP process.  Thus, if you DON'T write a PEP, I will be confirmed in my
working hypothesis that you're not really looking for such a change, but
just looking for arguments for arguments' sake.


>>but so, almost invariably, does 'c:/python23/' (Microsoft's C runtime
>>libraries accept / interchangeably with \ as part of file path syntax,
>>and Python relies on the C runtime libraries and so does likewise).
>>
> Another alternative would be a chosen-delimiter raw format, e.g.,
> 
>    path = d'|c:\python23\|
> 
> or
> 
>    path = d'$c:\python23\$
> 
> I.e., the first character after d' is the chosen delimiter.
> Even matching-brackets delimiting could be possible
> 
>    d'[c:\python23\] == d'<c:\python23\> == d'{c:\python23\}
> 
> by recognizing [, <, or { delimiters specially. Space as a delimiter would
> be iffy practice.

I think the whole perlish idea stinks to high heavens, but I look
forwards to reading your PEP carefully detailing this proposal.


Alex




From wcyeo at shaw.ca  Wed Jun 11 04:53:44 2003
From: wcyeo at shaw.ca (William Yeo)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:53:44 GMT
Subject: Octets calculation?
References: <65eFa.634621$Si4.577158@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <bc673d$f0tpn$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <0modevgetee4eh0pg2k7s4qhacq7s6bbkm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <wcyeo-A3A0B7.01530011062003@shawnews.gv.shawcable.net>

In article <0modevgetee4eh0pg2k7s4qhacq7s6bbkm at 4ax.com>,
 Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote:

> "Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com> wrote:
> 
> >Tyreal wrote:
[snipt]
> >
> >In my experience, this supposed ambiguity about the meaning
> >of the word "byte" is something that only exists in the
> >rarified imaginations of standards writers. In the real
> >world, nobody ever uses it to mean anything other than
> >8 bits.
> 
> Today this is true, but remember that POP, like most of the Internet
> protocols, is very old (in computer years).  At the time the early Internet
> RFCs were written, there were a number of popular mainframe computers that
> did not use 8-bit character sets.  The Control Data 6000s and Cybers used
> 6-bit characters.


Ah yes, and remember Honeywell in the glorious 70's whose systems used 
36 bits arranged as 6 6-bit bytes or 4 9-bit bytes depending on whether 
you're in batch or timesharing mode.

(I'm not kidding)

Will



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sun Jun  8 08:56:35 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 05:56:35 -0700
Subject: the 'in' operator and class instances
References: <20030608062201.16011.72647.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1055063152.22684.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306080456.36907ad2@posting.google.com>

"Vinoo vasudevan" <ee01b092 at ee.iitm.ernet.in> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055063152.22684.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi,
> I'm an newbie and have been getting to know Python over the past two weeks.
> One of the things I really liked was the 'in' operator. Statements like "key
> in dict" or "line in file" are really cool. But this doesn't seem to work for
> classes. i.e.
> 
> >>> class a:
>    def f(self):
>       pass
> 
> >>> 'f' in a
> <Traceback>
> 
> Could somebody tell me why class instances don't use in to check for
> memebership i.e. something like hasattr(..). I read up on "__contains__" in
> the Language Reference. Couldn't python just define a default version of this
> for all classes/instances to check for membership. Any class that attaches a
> special meaning to membership can of course define its own "__contains__". In
> c++ terminology (my __previous__ language :-) ) : can't "object" define a
> virtual function "__contains__"? Just a suggestion. Plz let me know if I don't
> have a clue of I'm talking about. :-)
> 

Why would your force __contains__ meaning always "hasattr" ? 
Often it is not what you want. Look for instance at this example:

class GeometricFigure(object):
      """This class allows to define geometric figures according to their
      equation in the cartesian plane. Moreover addition and subtraction
      of geometric figures are defined as union and subtraction of sets, 
      and the syntax (x,y) in <figure> is recognized."""
      def __init__(self,equation,**parameters):
          "Initialize "
          self.eq=equation
          self.par=parameters
          for (k,v) in self.par.items(): #replaces the parameters
              self.eq=self.eq.replace(k,str(v))
          self.contains=eval('lambda x,y : '+self.eq)
      def combine(self,fig,operator):
          """Combine self with the geometric figure fig, using the
          operators "or" (addition) and "and not" (subtraction)"""
          comboeq="("+self.eq+")"+operator+"("+fig.eq+")"
          return GeometricFigure(comboeq)
      def __add__(self,fig):
          "Union of sets"
          return self.combine(fig,' or ')
      def __sub__(self,fig):
          "Subtraction of sets"
          return self.combine(fig,' and not')
      def __contains__(self,point): #point is a tuple (x,y)
          return self.contains(*point)

disk=GeometricFigure('(x-x0)**2+(y-y0)**2 <= r**2', x0=0,y0=0,r=5)
# creates a disk of radius 5 centered in the origin
print (1,2) in disk #asks if the point (1,2) is inside the disk (True)
print (4,4) in disk #asks if the point (4,4) is inside the disk (False)



From maschio_77 at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 10 07:51:02 2003
From: maschio_77 at hotmail.com (Federico)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:51:02 +0200
Subject: example to change a Tkinter window's icon please
Message-ID: <bc4gck$ea5$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it>

I use python 2.2.3 under mswindows... each time I try to change the icon of
a tkinter window I have an error, I wrong something...

I try this:

import Tkinter
root=Tkinter.Tk()
bit=Tkinter.PhotoImage(file='logo1.gif',format='gif')
lb=Tkinter.Label(None,image=bit)
lb.grid()
root.iconwindow(lb)
root.mainloop()

and the error is : can't use .9563392 as icon window: not at top level

Please can someone give me a complete example on how to change a window icon
with iconwindow or iconbitmap or iconmask methods?
Thanks









From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sun Jun  1 17:58:54 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 01 Jun 2003 22:58:54 +0100
Subject: repr on a string
References: <pan.2003.06.01.20.16.40.747684@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <yfs1xydzcgx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

David Shochat <shochatd at yahoo.com> writes:

> The Library Reference says this about built-in repr():
>  Return a string containing a printable representation of an object.
> 
> While studying Programming Python, 2nd Ed. Example 2-18, p. 84, I was

Haven't got the book, so I can't comment on the specific example, but see
below.

> wondering what the point was of applying repr to a component (dir) of 
> sys.path. Isn't it after all, already a printable string? Ok, so 
> what does it mean to take repr of a printable string, and why does 
> the author want to here? Are we worried that the path contains an 
> unprintable directory name or something?
> 
> I tried this:
> >>> str = 'dog'
> >>> str
> 'dog'
> >>> repr(str)
> "'dog'"
> 
> We now seem to have a string with quote characters as its first 
> and last components. I would have thought that the operation of 
> making a printable representation of something that is already 
> printable would be the identify function. Could someone
> explain precisely what is going on here?
> Thanks.
> -- David


I think you're maybe confused about the difference between `repr` and `str`:

>>> str("a string")
'a string'
>>> repr("a string")
"'a string'"

`str` is there to create a nice human-readable string representation of an
object.

`repr`, on the other hand gives you the "canonical" string representation of
an object, so that in most cases ``eval(repr(object)) == object``. It is what
an interactive python shell uses to print the results of every command you
enter. This is really rather handy because it means that you can typically
just cut and paste an output into the input prompt and you will get the same
object.

In other words ``str(foo)`` is usually more concise and readable (and hence
useful for end-user output), whereas ``repr(foo)`` typically contains more
information (and is hence useful in interactive sessions or for debugging
purposes).

'as



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Jun 17 10:53:37 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:53:37 GMT
Subject: [OT] (was: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?)
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com> <Xns939D3EC4C9004JanC@213.119.4.94> <20030617063032.612B.KLAPOTEC@nusurf.at>
Message-ID: <Xns939DABD5AD4CJanC@213.119.4.94>

Christopher Koppler <klapotec at nusurf.at> schreef:

>> IIRC the first cars had a maximum speed of about 3.5 km/h and could
>> drive about 5 km far.  Preparing the car for that took about an hour,
>> and afterwards you had to repair it for another 2 hours.  Even a
>> pedestrian could go faster, further, cheaper, and carry more weight
>> with him...   ;-) 
>> 
> Yes, but those were the *very* first cars - alpha releases, which were
> quite soon replaced by much more stable beta versions, and 1908
> already saw version 1.0: the Model T Ford.

Well, it took them rather long to reach a final version 1.0 then: the 
Belgian inventor Jean Lenoir drove his first car in 1863...

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jun 15 12:38:26 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 12:38:26 -0400
Subject: [General lang] how to call a parent
References: <F%0Ha.261$WW3.30765151@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <bci7e2$e3t$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <F%0Ha.261$WW3.30765151 at newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
John Fabiani  <jfabiani at yolo.com> wrote:
>
>I'm a newbie to the Python world but not programming.  In the Visual
>Foxpro world we have the concept of ?parent?.  I normally use it to
>set properties of a custom control as in ?parent.background.color =
>blue?.  The parent in this case is a container.  In the VFP world we
>have ?thisform, this, and parent? and all class methods are run unless
>overwritten by the child class.  Anyway, I'd know how to call the
>parent of an object.  BTW if I'm all wrong with this idea would someone
>explain why!

It's not that you're all wrong as that what you're describing is a
special form of object protocol that primarily applies in GUI design.
You can certainly perform this kind of operation in Python, but unless
you're using a framework, it's not automatic.  Before I (or other
people) give you specific advice about the best way to implement this,
it'd be good if you gave us more information about what you're trying to
accomplish.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jun  3 19:33:31 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 19:33:31 -0400
Subject: Whre is my object ??
References: <bbj4p4$f8n$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <bbjb8b$hds$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <bbj4p4$f8n$1 at news1.ucsd.edu>, King Kuta <mr.kuta at libero.it> wrote:
>
>Ok, a little riddle for he Python community.

Erik already gave you a good answer.  For more detail, see
http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  9 00:02:06 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:02:06 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <l1ptlofcz3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>; from ed@membled.com on Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 10:58:40PM +0100
References: <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org> <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055032157.24538.python-list@python.org> <l1el24hmex.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055088916.4391.python-list@python.org> <l1ptlofcz3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <20030608220206.A320@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ed Avis:
  [...]
> Still, wouldn't it work to parenthesize the whole lambda-expression to
> avoid ambiguity:
> 
>     swap = (lambda L,i,j: L[i], L[j] = L[j], L[i])
> 
> In this case a parse that took the RHS as a 3-tuple would not be
> possible, since the 'L[j] = L[j]' in the middle would be a statement
> and statements cannot appear inside tuples.

Thought you might suggest that.  :)

The problem with this plan is the amount of lookahead required for
the parser to decide among possible parse trees.

As noted, for backwards compatibility,
    (lambda L,i,j: L[i], L[j])
has to make a 2-tuple, not a function.  (The j in L[j] here must
be from the outer scope in this case, of course.)

So, once the parser has read as far as
    lambda L,i,j: L[i],
it has to look ahead, past the L[j], to see if there's a = there,
before it can decide whether the simple_stmt being assembled
includes this comma or not.

This is a problem because, as Martin has pointed out, the current
parser and grammar are LL(1); that 1 means that at most one token
of lookahead is ever needed for disambiguation.  The reasoning you
sketch above requires arbitrary lookahead (since the L[j] could be
replaced with an arbitrarily complex target list), and so cannot
be implemented in such a parser.  (This is not to say the parser
couldn't be replaced with one of a different type, but that's
obviously a much bigger deal than just tweaking the grammar.)

I actually think parentheses directly around the statement is a
more promising approach.

  [...]
> Others said that tuple-forming comma binds much more loosely than
> anything else, which suggests that this is not the case.

Not more loosely than =, for example, or statement delimiters such
as semicolons or newlines: e.g.,
    a, b = b, a
    a, b; print 3
are both fine.

In the grammar, precedence is implicit in the nesting of
productions, e.g., 'not' has a higher precedence than 'and' just
because not_test occurs in expansions of and_test and not
(directly) vice versa.  Likewise, commas making expression lists
and whatnot occur in the expansions of simple_stmt.

> (Would 'x, 3' be a statement anyway?)

Sure.  An expression_stmt, in fact.  (As you noted in a previous
post, any expression can serve as a statement.)

  [...]
> If you are right, then this is a serious objection and a good enough
> reason to reject the proposal.

I'm pretty sure I'm right on this point (that simply allowing
simple_stmt in the lambda body would cause a backwards-
incompatible parse of "lambda x: x, 3"), though it would be nice
for an actual expert to weigh in.

Whether it's reason enough to reject the proposal...  well, as the
proposal stands, sure.  A variant might work, though.

> However - I have been using the grammar at
> <http://python.org/doc/current/ref/grammar.txt>, which seems different
> to the file you quote (presumably from the Python source code).  

Right, Grammar/Grammar is part of the source.  (That's one reason
I like it; the implementation is always right!)

> [...] I
> think they are different enough to cause confusion, in particular, in
> grammar.txt a simple_stmt is not a list of statements and cannot
> contain ';'.  Could we continue using that file as reference, unless
> you believe that it is incorrect wrt the current Python
> implementation, in which case I will switch to Grammar/Grammar instead.

The differences are minor afaik, but, yes, occasionally confusing.
The business of semicolons, for example, is treated verbally in
the Language Reference rather than in the BNF: "Several simple
statements may occur on a single line separated by semicolons.".
What the Language Reference calls a simple_stmt, Grammar/Grammar
calls a small_stmt; the Language Reference seems not to give a
name to the semicolon-delimited list of simple statements.  (None
of this affects the point about commas above.)

I doubt there's a substantive difference between the two.  I
appealed to Grammar/Grammar just because I found what it said
about lambda to be slightly clearer than what the Language
Reference said.  I'll try to stick to the Language Reference from
here on in.

  [...]
> The point I would like to explore is how significant and how
> problematic these changes really are.  [...]

Quite.  I should admit here that my belief there will be
significant problems is just an intuition.

  [...]
> My feeling is that as long as no existing programs change meaning or
> become invalid [...] then the change is worth considering. [...]

Absolutely.  I hope my criticisms here haven't given the contrary
impression; by all means, if you can get it working, with no
change to the meaning of presently correct programs, all the power
to you -- write a PEP, get it discussed, maybe get it folded in.
It would be quite an achievement.

  [...]
> To do that I would need to understand a bit more about how a BNF
> grammar is interpreted; how the binding tightness of operators is
> decided, whether parsing at each level is greedy, and so on.

If you don't find anything adequate online, you might want to pick
up a copy of _Compiler Design in C_, by ... Alan Holub, if memory
serves.  I quite enjoyed it.

  [...]
-- 
Steven Taschuk    staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Tomorrow never happens."  -- Janis Joplin




From just at xs4all.nl  Mon Jun  9 14:33:25 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 20:33:25 +0200
Subject: cut off \n
References: <3EE4ACCD.70000@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <just-180ECF.20332509062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <3EE4ACCD.70000 at gmx.net>, Tom <llafba at gmx.net> wrote:

> I have to read data from a file to a list. Unfortunately most of the 
> data that I read into my little list ends with a linefeed \n.
> Right now I get rid of this by just cutting off the last character. (a = 
> l[:-1]).
> My problem is that sometimes the last line of the file has a \n and 
> sometimes not. With the method above I sometimes cut off parts of my 
> string. So it would be much nicer if I can find out if the data does 
> have a \n and then cut it off.
> 
> This is probably a very common problem but I am pretty new to Phython 
> and could find anything useful with google. :-(

I your files aren't very big, then you could do something like this:

    f = file(path)
    data = f.read()
    f.close()
    lines = data.splitlines()

Just



From gh at ghaering.de  Sat Jun 28 11:46:11 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:46:11 +0200
Subject: OverflowError in pyPgSQL when accessing tables with many rows
In-Reply-To: <ea170aaf.0306271856.3916b5f@posting.google.com>
References: <ea170aaf.0306271856.3916b5f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EFDB843.5090106@ghaering.de>

Paolo Alexis Falcone wrote:
> Whenever I try to access a table with many rows using PgSQL's
> fetchall(), this happens:

First, I'd recommend you ask on the pyPgSQL mailing list in such cases. 
Otherwise it might happen that the pyPgSQL developers miss a post on the 
newsgroup :-)

>>>>from pyPgSQL import PgSQL
>>>>db = PgSQL.connect("192.168.0.8:5432:whitegold","dondon","dondon")
>>>>PgSQL.NoPostgresCursor = 1
>>>>cur = db.cursor()
>>>>cur.execute("SELECT * FROM customer")
>>>>data = cur.fetchall()
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/pyPgSQL/PgSQL.py", line 3106,
> in fetchall
>     return self.__fetchManyRows(self._rows_, _list)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/pyPgSQL/PgSQL.py", line 2684,
> in __fetchManyRows
>     _j = self.__fetchOneRow()
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/pyPgSQL/PgSQL.py", line 2660,
> in __fetchOneRow
>     _r.getvalue(self._idx_, _i)))
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/pyPgSQL/PgSQL.py", line 717,
> in typecast
>     return PgNumeric(value, _p, _s)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/pyPgSQL/PgSQL.py", line 1335,
> in __init__
>     raise OverflowError, "value too large for PgNumeric"
> OverflowError: value too large for PgNumeric

So here's a specific string coming from the database for which the 
PgNumeric class thinks it's too large. This smells like a bug to me.

> The aforementioned table, customer, only has 1023 entries with the
> following structure:
> 
> CREATE TABLE customer (ccustcode varchar(80), cgroupcode varchar(10),
> clastname varchar(80), cfirstname     varchar(80), cmi varchar(10),
> ccompany varchar(80), caddress1 varchar(80), caddress2 varchar(80),
> ccity varchar(80), cprovince varchar(80), czipcode varchar(10), iterms
> integer, ycredit_limit numeric, npenalty_rate numeric,
> default_routecode varchar(10), lisdirector boolean);

Aha. Could you perhaps send me the contents of the table? I'm only 
interested in the NUMERIC columns. Just omit the rest, as it's likely a 
privacy issue otherwise.

> PgSQL's fetchone() fortunately works though, as well as using
> fetchall() on tables with few rows. Is there any alternative way of
> using PyPgSQL that would not overflow in this situation?

It's a problem with the way PgNumeric thinks how large NUMERIC values 
can become. pyPgSQL gets information from the backend in the 
.description field of the cursor and infers the valid range of the 
NUMERICs in the columns from this information. There must be a problem 
with this.

Can you perhaps first try the CVS version of pyPgSQL?

It seems to me that the bug you've encountered is bug #697221, which is 
already fixed in the CVS version:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=697221&group_id=16528&atid=116528

If the problem persists with the CVS version, please send me more info, 
like a dump of the NUMERIC columns.

If you want to contact me personally, please also CC 
gerhard.haering at gmx.de for the following days, as the DNS entries for my 
mail server haven't catched up to my switching the server yet. [1]

-- Gerhard

[1] Damn (IDE) hard disks. This is the second HD crash on two different 
servers within three months :-( But at least *this* time I have recent 
backups ... Anybody got an idea about the failure rate of IDE hard 
drives in medium-used servers? My ISP puts Excelstor HDs in the boxes 
and claims they were the stablest ones in their tests.




From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Sun Jun 22 19:52:27 2003
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:52:27 -0700
Subject: subclassing Thread and start
References: <uk86fv060t84jqno0mniak1ol6s3nn415c@4ax.com> <wcjJa.306559$3n5.168253@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3ef5c3f5$0$2234$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl>

...
>
> Your MyThread class could look like this"
>
>     class MyThread(threading.Thread):
>         def start(self):
>             threading.Thread.start(self)
>             self.id = id(self)
>             return self.id

In case you want to use self.id in the started thread,
this might be prefereable:

     class MyThread(threading.Thread):
         def start(self):
             self.id = id(self)
             threading.Thread.start(self)
             return self.id

Kind regards,
Ype



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jun 20 19:52:17 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:52:17 -0400
Subject: Weird 'and' result...
References: <slrnbf75q5.9t.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>
Message-ID: <3EF39E31.F8012BE4@engcorp.com>

"Artur M. Piwko" wrote:
> 
> pipen at demon:/tmp/ekg-1.1rc1$ python
> Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jun  4 2003, 02:54:59)
> [GCC 3.3 (Debian)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> "%08x" % (0xea7ee5ccea7 & 0xffffffff)
> 'ea7ee5ccea7'
> >>>
> 
> And it should be 'ee5ccea7'. Am I missing something?

I don't know the details, since the first value won't fit
in an int, it's quietly making it a long, then treating the
second value as "-1" and/or basically sign-extending it
to an appropriate size to do the AND for you...

Change it to 0xffffffffL (note the L) and it works "better".

A guru will be along shortly to explain the details. :-)

-Peter



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Mon Jun 23 00:58:38 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 04:58:38 GMT
Subject: License Question
References: <3EF54BDF.46423D0A@easystreet.com> <slrnbfassb.r9.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <8765mxoq8k.fsf@pobox.com> <slrnbfcsji.gfb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3EF68130.53439A53@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbfd280.gfb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:25:20 -0700, achrist at easystreet.com wrote:
> I guess that I'm starting to think that I'm OK with respect to Python,
> since I'm not making any changes to the distro, but I'm curious now
> too about the BSD licensed code that I'm using in my app, for which 
> I'm not distributing source.  

Why not?  Even if the license doesn't require you to distribute source,
why not simply distribute the source?  The BSD license certainly
*allows* it, and I'd hope you want your users to have the same freedom
you had.

The BSD license is not a copyleft; you can redistribute under a more
restrictive license than the one under which it was distributed to you.
I hope you don't, but my understanding of the BSD license says you may.

Really, though, if you want to be safe, get some proper legal advice
from a copyright lawyer; otherwise, you're taking your chances on the
word of some people on Usenet you've never met and who specifically
disclaim lawyerhood.

If it's not worth your time or money to get legal advice, then do *more*
than the license requires; distribute source to your users where you're
allowed to.  That's what keeps the whole free software thing alive.

-- 
 \       "Firmness in decision is often merely a form of stupidity. It |
  `\    indicates an inability to think the same thing out twice."  -- |
_o__)                                                 Henry L. Mencken |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jun 11 09:22:59 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 06:22:59 -0700
Subject: Hardware take on software testing.
References: <2ae25c6b.0306060450.78e988f9@posting.google.com> <3EE0CF2B.57F474E4@engcorp.com> <2ae25c6b.0306061721.148300a@posting.google.com> <3EE14F0A.3D1E1887@engcorp.com> <2259b0e2.0306091158.701ed82a@posting.google.com> <3EE4F2F0.2EC4FBA5@engcorp.com> <2259b0e2.0306100538.4889ae4f@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055258425.21148.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306110522.3f865b51@posting.google.com>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055258425.21148.python-list at python.org>...
> Fwiw, I agree entirely with your point that sometimes (rarely) TDD
> does not provide adequate coverage of cases.  What agile
> methodologies gain you in this case, imho, is practical experience
> with candidate algorithms and direct experience of the subtlety of
> the subject.  This is very valuable.

Indeed.

> Now that you have that experience, you might be motivated to throw
> away what you have and take a more formal approach: Formalization
> of the Python type system, formal characterization of the
> circumstances under which the metaclass/metatype conflict occurs,
> proof that such-and-such an algorithm avoids those circumstances,
> you know the drill.
> 
> Imho such methods are worth it in such cases.  (Type system
> hacking is one area where I *do* want proofs of correctness.)  But
> an important point: you would not know for certain that this was
> needed if you hadn't used agile methodologies to explore the
> domain in the first place.
> 

An interesting point.

> > In the same sense that one should be skeptical about the confidence he gets 
> > when the program compile, he should be skeptical about the confidence he gets 
> > when the program passes the test suite.
> 
> In the same sense, yes.  But to a much lesser degree, of course;
> the test suite is smarter than the compiler.

Of course, no doubt about it. I was somewhat bashing advocates of compiled
languages, when they say "the compiler guarantees me more safety than
the interpreter" whereas actually I think it guarantees an apparent safety. 
The safety from the tests is more than apparent, true, but still it is 
not absolute, how true believers in TDD would claim. This was my only
point.

                                      Michele



From wweexxsseessssaa at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun 15 16:15:28 2003
From: wweexxsseessssaa at telusplanet.net (John Hall)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:15:28 GMT
Subject: Python articles
References: <mailman.1055704587.15481.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nrkpevsm7psg011fvqs0qjh6uj2jjbmjph@4ax.com>

On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:13:19 -0300, Gustavo Niemeyer
<niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote:

>[1] https://moin.conectiva.com.br/GustavoNiemeyer

Your website is about 2 meters wide, but my monitor only about 300mm,
so reading it is rather inconvenient.
(IE V6 on Windows 2000 Pro)

-- 
John W Hall <wweexxsseessssaa at telusplanet.net>
Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
"Helping People Prosper in the Information Age"



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun  4 00:24:11 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:24:11 -0500
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
In-Reply-To: <1ieDa.35049$DV.60225@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
        <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com>
        <PNdDa.824522$OV.780836@rwcrnsc54>
        <bbjpt9$p0q$1@panix3.panix.com>
        <1ieDa.35049$DV.60225@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <16093.29803.539483.740828@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    bryan> these two "styles" appear to be the same, except the second one
    bryan> seems to be more natural and simpler and obvious to me. 

Perhaps, but style two limits you to a single "keyword" after the def, and
from a parser standpoint suggests that "staticmethod" should be an actual
keyword.  You also have to consider the other modifiers which might
reasonably be applied to a function and how they will be implemented.  For
pre- and post-conditions, something like

    def foo_pre(...) [contract]:
        <design-by-contract code here>

    def foo_post(...) [contract]:
        <more dbc stuff>

    def foo(...) [pre=foo_pre, post=foo_post]:
        <normal code here>

or

    def foo_pre(...) {'contract': True}:
        <design-by-contract code here>

    def foo_post(...) {'contract': True}:
        <more dbc stuff>

    def foo(...) {'pre': foo_pre, 'post': foo_post}:
        <normal code here>

might be sufficient to allow foo_pre and foo_post to be compiled in such a
way that when they run they actually see foo's locals as their locals and
allow foo to be compiled in a way that calls the pre-condition function upon
entry and the post-condition function just before return (after the return
value has been computed, but before the return is executed).  (FYI, the
above is just right off the top of my sleep-starved brain.  I'm sure it's
full of holes.)

Combining that with static methods or class methods and you find the same
mechanism can be easily extended:

    def foo(...) {'staticmethod': True, 'pre': foo_pre, 'post': foo_post}:
        <normal code here>

so now foo() is a static method with both pre- and post-condition contracts
which are executed at the appropriate times.

and-tim's-your-uncle-ly, yr's,

Skip




From henk at entree.nl  Sat Jun 21 06:12:29 2003
From: henk at entree.nl (Henk Punt)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 03:12:29 -0700
Subject: Venster mailing list
Message-ID: <5a6dd3ff.0306210212.6bf7a8a0@posting.google.com>

Hi,

A lot of people have been asking for a mailing list for Venster. 
Venster is a highly native Windows GUI toolkit for Python based on the
ctypes ffi library. The aim of Venster is to be a very lightweight
wrapper around the standard Win32 API, making it easy to write slick
windows applications in pure Python.

You can join the new list at
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/venster-users.


Venster is an open source library and is hosted at Sourceforge. 

Grtz,

Henk.



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun  8 15:59:19 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 13:59:19 -0600
Subject: program path
In-Reply-To: <3EE38F1A.6B4CDEE@engcorp.com>; from peter@engcorp.com on Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 03:31:38PM -0400
References: <fyvEa.17336$pK2.23786@news.indigo.ie> <3EE28ABC.7D6DB511@engcorp.com> <D0wEa.17343$pK2.23880@news.indigo.ie> <3EE2AD6E.933C6ED7@engcorp.com> <mailman.1055048954.23011.python-list@python.org> <3EE36B46.343D8774@engcorp.com> <3EE36E0D.3050604@ghaering.de> <mailman.1055095297.9391.python-list@python.org> <3EE38F1A.6B4CDEE@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030608135919.A5139@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Peter Hansen:
  [...]
> See Mike's reply... it works fine.

Good to know.

> So basically os.path.abspath(sys.argv[0]) should be the idiomatic
> way to find the full path where the __main__ script lives.

I notice the alternative
    sys.modules['__main__'].__file__
which I like because it generalizes easily to arbitrary modules,
as the sys.argv[0] approach does not.  Does this alternative have
any disadvantages I'm not seeing?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                             staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I may be wrong but I'm positive."  -- _Friday_, Robert A. Heinlein




From evan at 4-am.com  Mon Jun  2 14:59:51 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 13:59:51 -0500
Subject: A Python application server?
In-Reply-To: <3edb9ab1$0$49104$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> <mailman.1054576325.11678.python-list@python.org> <3edb9ab1$0$49104$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3EDB9EA7.2000406@4-am.com>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
> What I know of Zope is that it still runs the Python-code or 
> Python-enhanced
> pages on the server. There's nothing like "code travelleing around the 
> network".

True enough, except in the sense that code-bearing Zope objects are 
often created and edited over HTTP from a web browser or WebDAV client.

Since it's substantially easier to hack an HTTP session than to get 
write access to the server's files, Zope makes a sharp distinction 
between filesystem ("trusted") and through-the-web ("untrusted") code.

If Duncan's system actually requires sandboxed code to run in some kind 
of non-web client, then Zope is probably not the answer.

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am






From mcherm at mcherm.com  Thu Jun  5 08:31:32 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Thu,  5 Jun 2003 05:31:32 -0700
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
Message-ID: <1054816292.3edf3824ea616@mcherm.com>

Ed Avis writes:
> Lambda expressions are restricted to contain expressions, not
> statements.  This makes it difficult to write table-driven code such
> as
> 
>     commands = [...]
>     inverted = {'red': 'cyan', ...}
>     b = 'blue' # default
>     table = {'setcolour': lambda x: b = x,
>              'invertcolour': lambda x: b = inverted[b],
>              ...,
>             }
>     for (c, arg) in commands:
>       table[c](arg)
>     print 'after reading config file, colour is', b
> 
> This code with the 'table' dictionary can be more maintainable than a
> big long if/elif/elif statement, although that is not always the case.
> 
> However it is not possible to write it as above because anonymous
> functions don't allow assignment, or at least, not with =.

Well, there are of course other ways to do it (as others have pointed
out) but if you like your table of anonymous functions, it's certainly
still usable. The problem is that you are trying to store the
settings, like 'b', as local (or global?) variables. Its much better
to have an object. Something like this:

    class Settings:
        def __init__(self):
            self.b = 'blue' # default
            self.otherStuff = 'otherDefault' # etc
    g_settings = Settings()


    commands = [...]
    inverted = {'red': 'cyan', ...}
    table = {'setcolour': lambda setgs, x: setattr(setgs, 'b', x),
             'invertcolour': lambda setgs, x: setattr(setgs, 'b', inverted[b]),
             ...,
            }
    for (c, arg) in commands:
      table[c](g_settings, arg)
    print 'after reading config file, colour is', g_settings.b

Of course, you can argue that using setattr is simply another way of
doing assignment (but with a function, so it can be done in a lamda) --
which would be true. And you can suggest that it'd be cleaner if
Settings had a setDefaultColor() method which you called -- true again.

Somehow, migrating from using a bunch of variables to using an object
just makes things easier. Obviously, it's not the only approach, but
if you like your tables of anonymous functions, this is a way to do it.

-- Michael Chermside





From andrew at acooke.org  Mon Jun  2 10:16:11 2003
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: 02 Jun 2003 10:16:11 -0400
Subject: dictionary issue (and maybe PEP ... depending on the answer)
In-Reply-To: <0wBCa.651$ig1.627675@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
References: <0wBCa.651$ig1.627675@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <87y90kmuok.fsf@acooke.org>

dsavitsk <dsavitsk at ecpsoftware.com> writes:
[...]

you want a non-destructive sort.  i want a non-destructive sort.  last
week someone was wanting to add a non-destructive sort with mapping.
every new user screws up assuming that [].sort is non-destructive.
even norvig lists it as the big ugly wart in python (well, maybe not
in those words).

you'd think that someone would add non-destructive sort to python,
wouldn't you?

funny old world, eh?

andrew

-- 
http://www.acooke.org





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Jun  9 18:19:06 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 18:19:06 -0400
Subject: Go buy _Text Processing in Python_
References: <bD3Fa.54383$4_1.14116131@twister.nyc.rr.com>
 <mailman.1055189121.3400.python-list@python.org>
 <GK6Fa.54393$4_1.14154666@twister.nyc.rr.com> <wVQ5+kKkXUXO092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <afQ5+kKkXAmT092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

"Max Khesin" <max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com> wrote previously:
|btw, your book is supposed to be on its way from Amazon. I hope it
|comes fast...

Thanks Max. Which reminds me to announce that it is out:

+++

After way too long, my occassionally plugged book, _Text Processing in
Python_ is actually printed and being sold in stores.  I think it looks
quite nice, decent paper, binding, and I am pleased by the typography
now that I've seen the real thing etc.  (I did the composition, but
somehow the bound volume is still a step past my laser printer pages).
My Amazon rank fell from 1.5 millionth to 100 thousandth already... a
runaway seller :-).

FWIW.  I am supposed to get 50 author's copies of the text (but my
publisher has seemed to drag their feet greatly on little details like
paying me--and delivering these copies).  When I get them, beyond a few
for friends and family, I'll sell the rest to the Pythonistas here (I
should be able to do a credit card via textbookx.com, where I have an
account; or send them to anyone who wants to pay me directly by
check).  I'll announce details when I wrestle the copies out of AW.

Yours, David...

-
   _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
  _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
 _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/





From nz.postmaster at nzdf.mil.nz  Thu Jun 26 10:57:35 2003
From: nz.postmaster at nzdf.mil.nz (nz.postmaster at nzdf.mil.nz)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:57:35 +1200
Subject: Your email message was blocked
Message-ID: <D000055e2e@epormailmar.joint.nz>

This is an automated message from the NZDF content scanner

The attachment in an Internet Email message sent to the NZDF was deleted by the NZDF
Internet Email Gateway as it contained executable code not accepted
by NZDF.

   Message: B0002576e7.00000001.mml
   From:    python-list at python.org
   To:      brett.goodall at nzdf.mil.nz
   Subject: Re: Application

MailMarshal Rule: Inbound Messages : Block Dangerous Attachments

From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jun 13 03:16:59 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 00:16:59 -0700
Subject: Octets calculation?
References: <65eFa.634621$Si4.577158@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <bc673d$f0tpn$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EE79F73.E08C2554@alcyone.com> <mailman.1055369063.13758.python-list@python.org> <3ee88ede$0$645$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <bcbb0q$hf4ub$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EE97A6B.46DCF989@alcyone.com>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" wrote:

> I thought the C standard used the word "char" for
> that, not "byte".

The C Standard uses the terms _char_ and _byte_ interchangeably.  It
defines byte to mean the smallest atomically addressable chunk of memory
on the system.

> If DSP people really use the word "byte" that
> way, they're utterly barking, IMO. It's just too
> confusing for words. (Or should I say octet-groups?-)

As with most computer science terms, there is no authoritative meaning
to the term _byte_.  Some use it to mean smallest addressable unit of
space on an architecture (which I find the most useful definition); some
use it to mean the smallest chunk of data in a stream; some defined it
to be the same as the native character (like C); and some just define it
to mean the same thing as octet.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ It is only to the individual that a soul is given.
\__/  Albert Einstein



From ivan.nazarenko at uol.com.br  Thu Jun  5 13:42:14 2003
From: ivan.nazarenko at uol.com.br (ivannaz)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 10:42:14 -0700
Subject: Repeated assignments - a more elegant approach (newbie)
Message-ID: <67e2f348.0306050942.62aa6074@posting.google.com>

Suppose I have the following code:

if a > 0:
    mna += a
    cnta += 1
if b > 0:
    mnb += b
    cntb += 1
if c > 0:
    mnc += c
    cntc += 1
... and so on, until 'z'

Is there a better way to write it? The idea would be something like
(which obviously does not work):

for (var, mean, count) in [(a, mna, cnta), (b, mnb, cntb), (c, mnc,
cntc)...]:
    if var > 0:
        mean += var
        count += 1

Regards,

Ivan



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Thu Jun  5 12:32:02 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 09:32:02 -0700
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
In-Reply-To: <200306050920.17729.p@ulmcnett.com>
References: <E19NnV9-00031r-00@tswings.swing.cluster>
	 <1054829046.2139.5.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>
	 <200306050920.17729.p@ulmcnett.com>
Message-ID: <1054830721.2139.13.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 09:20, Paul McNett wrote:
> Cliff Wells writes:
> 
> > wxPython would be preferred over pygtk because it has been ported to
> > more platforms.  
> 
> wxPython is still in active development, no? MacOSX is definitely not ready 
> yet, at least.

If it weren't in active development it would be dead <wink>.  Last time
I checked the Mac ports were coming along well.

> > pyqt would be problematic for people not developing
> > open source projects.
> 
> FWIW, the cost issue can be mitigated by buying the BlackAdder IDE 
> (http://www.thekompany.com), which comes with (somewhat limited) commercial 
> Qt licenses for Windows and Unix (not Mac, but PyQt doesn't support Mac yet 
> anyway, and the license would still cover a Mac/X11 (ie Unix) 
> distribution). It also comes with a PyQt license. Cost for BlackAdder is 
> under $400, compared to purchasing the Qt Licenses for $1200 - $2000 per 
> platform. There may be options other than BlackAdder, and it should be 
> noted that the BlackAdder Qt license only applies to distributing Python 
> code - you wouldn't be able to do C++ this way.
> 
> I tried Tkinter and then PyQt. I fully intended to try wxPython, but fell in 
> love with PyQt, which is mature and stable other than the lack of 
> deployment to native MacOSX. Tkinter does have the benefit of being easily 
> portable, but it is kind of sluggish, doesn't look that great, and all that 
> lambda stuff is difficult for me to grasp. PyQt documentation, as 
> distributed by the BlackAdder folks, is also very good.

There is little doubt in my mind that Qt is a great toolkit.  There is
less doubt in my mind that bundling a toolkit with Python that requires
users to pay a licensing fee will never happen.  Whether that fee is
$1000 or $10 is irrelevant.

At this point the two obvious candidates are wxPython and pygtk, but
until gtk is more widely ported wxPython is the clear winner.  The Mac
port may not be finished, but at least it's actively worked on.

Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From noemail at nospam.com  Fri Jun 27 23:59:16 2003
From: noemail at nospam.com (python newbie)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 03:59:16 GMT
Subject: Year 2000 book still useful?
References: <JVOKa.3738$bJ2.3348@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <oo8La.194$YC2.23504941@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

thanks for the helpful replies!





From cls at xpnet.com.br  Fri Jun  6 20:02:14 2003
From: cls at xpnet.com.br (Claudio)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 17:02:14 -0700
Subject: Installation problem of win32all and wxpython with python 2.2.3
Message-ID: <b3e4299c.0306061602.6e8d53a5@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

After uninstalling Python 2.2.2 from a Windows ME machine
and installing Python 2.2.3, I tried to install win32all-153.exe,
but it complained that no Python installation was found.
The installation of wxPythonWIN32-2.4.0.7-Py23.exe also
reported that it couldn't find a Python installation.

I tried this in another machine with Windows 2000 and the
same installation problems occurred.

Any ideas of what is going on ?

Regards,
Claudio L. Salvadori



From jung-paz at t-online.de  Tue Jun 17 11:33:31 2003
From: jung-paz at t-online.de (Thomas Jung)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:33:31 +0200
Subject: swig and init_module or initmodule, windows XP
References: <bcn8cd$efu$00$1@news.t-online.com> <smq8kb99.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <bcnccl$bp6$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Thank you ..

But: I could rename it once I have it - however, unless I change that
"init_example" to "initexample" by hand, it dies in the linking step with a
unresolved reference to initexample ...

Could that be some name mangling issue because of Python beeing build with
another compiler ?

I also just realized that I have the same problem using cygwin - swig
generates "init_example", the linker looks for "initexample" ....

"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:smq8kb99.fsf at python.net...
> "Jung-Paz" <jung-paz at t-online.de> writes:
>
> > Hi !
> >
> > I am new to Python and Swig ...
> >
> > I am using Python2.2, mingw and Swig 1.3.19, Windows XP, and trying to
build
> > a module using the distutils.
> > Basically it works, but in the final linking step I get an undefined
> > reference to "initexample" (the module name is example).
> > This sounds reasonable, as the file example_wrap.c, as produced by swig,
> > contains only a function "init_example.c".
> > If I replace "init_example" by hand with "initexample" and compile and
link
> > by hand, everything is fine, and I get a loadable and usable module.
> > Any idea how I could make swig to produce other function names, or
whatever
> > could help ?
>
> Sounds like you should name your extension _example.pyd instead of
> example.pyd...
>
> Thomas





From tjh at cryptsoft.com  Mon Jun 30 19:05:26 2003
From: tjh at cryptsoft.com (tjh at cryptsoft.com)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 09:05:26 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Please confirm your message
Message-ID: <1057014326.21079.TMDA@l1a.cryptsoft.com>

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is being held because your address was not recognized.

To release your message for delivery, please send an empty message
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From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Fri Jun 20 11:58:02 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:58:02 +0100
Subject: sourceforge problems
References: <oP+b0PA97r8+Ew0C@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <16115.2851.995073.486228@montanaro.dyndns.org>
 <U1w0aIAHGx8+Eww8@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <mailman.1056117876.8794.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kmzIugAK8y8+EwHM@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1056117876.8794.python-list at python.org>, Gerhard
H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes
>Robin Becker wrote:
>> In message <16115.2851.995073.486228 at montanaro.dyndns.org>, Skip
>> Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes
>> 
>>>   Robin> There are thousands of projects hosted at sf.net and it seems it
>>>   Robin> has become a single point of failure for open source. Is it a
>>>   Robin> good idea.
>>>
>>>Maybe Microsoft should buy SF?
>> 
>> yes I thought of that, but the idea is too frightening :(
>
>Why's that frightening? The projects that are worth it could then find 
>another home, and all the useless ones wouldn't be visible any more :-P
>
>Seriously, the SF code was (still is?) Open-Source and there are several 
>sites that have set up SF clones. At least GNU and PostgreSQL have one. 
>Here's the Pg one, for example: http://gborg.postgresql.org/
>
>-- Gerhard
>
Good sysadmins probably do the backup thing properly and so on and could
rehost fairly easily, but think of all the links and documentation that
might have to be changed if SF were compromised/made unreliable in some
way.
-- 
Robin Becker



From a at b.c  Tue Jun 17 12:43:14 2003
From: a at b.c (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:43:14 +0200
Subject: Observer Pattern (if you got some spare time)
In-Reply-To: <vetbmkcrcp303c@corp.supernews.com>
References: <3eee0283$1_1@news.vo.lu> <gigsev43cjqai69lr34h8gsu34h8gdaro2@4ax.com> <vetbmkcrcp303c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3eef434e_1@news.vo.lu>

Troy Melhase wrote:

> A quick read of the code suggests that the comment is in error; I don't see
> any reason why clients couldn't construct multiple instances of the PubSub
> class.  There are no classmethods, no staticmethods, and no references to
> the PubSub class by any code other than the example client at the bottom. 
> 

What I wrote is that you *shouldn't* need multiple instances, not that 
you *mustn't* have them. As you point out, you can have as many 
instances as you want, but having only one seems more natural to me.

I really designed this pattern with MQ Series in mind. The object is the 
queue manager, and the subject is the queue name. With MQ, you wouldn't 
create multiple queue managers, you would just agree on a queue name.

-Patrick

-- 
Real e-mail address is 'cHVAdm8ubHU=\n'.decode('base64')
Visit my Homepage at http://www.homepages.lu/pu/




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jun 20 23:27:33 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 23:27:33 -0400
Subject: Classic vs New-style classes...
References: <mailman.1056162937.4237.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bd0jb5$7m7$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1056162937.4237.python-list at python.org>,
Martin Chilvers <martin_chilvers at gmx.net> wrote:
>First of all, I should have asked a better question ;^)
>Second, I think I've answered it myself!
>
>> I've searched the archives and docs for an answer to this one, but I'm
>> still stuck...
>>
>> >>> class Foo(object)
>> ... pass
>> ...
>> >>> Foo.__dict__['bar'] = lambda self, x: x * 2
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>> TypeError: object does not support item assignment
>> >>> type(Foo.__dict__)
>> <type 'dict-proxy'>
>
>What I really wanted was this:-
>
>	def addToClass(klass, name, value):
>    	    exec('klass.%s = value' % name)
>
>With classic classes, it can be written as:-
>
>	def addToClass(klass, name, value):
>    	    klass.__dict__[name] = value
>
>So now my question is... is this the cleanest way with new-style classes?

Try setattr() instead.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 12 11:50:25 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 15:50:25 GMT
Subject: PEP318: property as decoration
References: <bc568h$5t4$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <DIuFa.5725$Gm4.690616@news20.bellglobal.com> <bc7ibf$fjv$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <20030611184025.GB5575@nl.linux.org> <mailman.1055362671.6994.python-list@python.org> <bc8t5b$chh$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <mailman.1055410883.13759.python-list@python.org> <bca6or$rg9$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <bca7bj$57c$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <bca7g1$6nf$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

"Sean Ross" <frobozz_electric at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bca7bj$57c$1 at driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca...

>
> Although, you can't do this:
>
> f.g()
>
> so, looks like this idea doesn't pan out...oh well...
>

You can do this, actually, but not if g() is also using this()...






From see at my.signature.com  Wed Jun  4 14:21:12 2003
From: see at my.signature.com (Andrei)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 18:21:12 +0000
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
References: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <2958945.1054750872@dbforums.com>

Originally posted by Aur?Lien G?Ron 
> <snip>
>
> ** Why isn't Python shipped with wxPython instead of Tk ? **
>
> <snip>
>
> Of course, I started with Tk because it was shipped with Python,
> but I was
> really disappointed:
> - you have to learn yet another language to fully understand Tk
> - the documentation is half Tk and half python which makes it
>   confusing
> - the look&feel is ok, but not great
> - it's a bit slow too
>
> <snip>
> :-)
> Aur?lien 

I also prefer wxPython. Not for technical reasons as I haven't used
Tk beyond "hello world" and the facilities provided by EasyGUI (which
shields you from Tk itself actually), but because I don't like the
way it looks.
With Idle being written in Tk, I don't think a removal of Tk from
the distro would be a solution (even though I don't use Idle myself)
and providing both would be a waste, especially with wxPython being
very much a moving target. Regarding the docs: I don't think the
wxPython docs are particularly great as they're too C (I can manage,
but I'd rather not have to read a type declaration before a variable
name because it feels very unnatural to me, but the search
facilities are nice).

--
print &quot;znvy: cebwrpg5 at bcrenznvy.pbz
Fcnzserr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp zrffntrf. V ernq gur yvfg, ab arrq gb PP.&quot;.decode(&quot;rot13&quot;)


Posted via http://dbforums.com



From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Jun  9 23:56:28 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:56:28 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <3EE511CE.6FB3E80F@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306100753220.2347-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Erik Max Francis wrote:

>Kevin Smith wrote:
>
>>         def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
>>             """ Gerrit Holl syntax """
>>             perform method operation
>
>I strongly prefer this syntax, still from the first time it got brought
>up and I commented on it.

the syntax is confusing, because "as" already has a meaning of
"to be known as":

import string as s
from string import split as sp


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From Admin at mantramail.com  Mon Jun 30 03:48:29 2003
From: Admin at mantramail.com (Admin at mantramail.com)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 07:48:29 -0000
Subject: failure notice
Message-ID: <E19WkTH-00072y-00@mail.python.org>

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mantramail.com.
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From koenig at v-i-t.de  Wed Jun 18 04:51:47 2003
From: koenig at v-i-t.de (Mirko Koenig)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:51:47 +0200
Subject: preventing creation of instance
References: <bco6se$frs$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de> <mailman.1055897132.700.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcp973$kkp$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de>

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:44:32 +0200, Jeff Epler wrote:


> import weakref
> 
> class test(object):
> 	names = weakref.WeakValueDictionary() def __init__(self, name):
> 		pass
> 
> 	def __new__(cls, name):
> 		print "new", cls.names.keys(), name
> 		if cls.names.has_key(name): return None ret = super(test,
> 		cls).__new__(cls, name) cls.names[name] = ret return ret

Is using __new__ a common way in programming python like the contructor
in c++ or is it seldom used ?

Mirko Koenig



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Jun  6 17:08:26 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 17:08:26 -0400
Subject: Numeric don't compare arrays correctly
In-Reply-To: <yfs7k7zue8f.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
References: <3EDFBACD.2090802@wanadoo.es> <yfsbrxbufxn.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <yfs7k7zue8f.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3EE102CA.1080600@rogers.com>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
...

>``3 < 1 < 4`` (False in python, True in most other languages where it isn't a
>syntax error)
>
OMG!  That's horrific!  It actually took me 3 or 4 seconds to even come 
up with a rationale for why it would be considered true when it so 
obviously is trying to say something false.  Hopefully all those 
languages with these semantics issue a strong warning during compilation 
(1/5 ;) ) that this statement does nothing useful and should never be 
used in anything save obfuscated code contests :) .

Every once in a while I thank Guido for God's common sense (or vice 
versa).  Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Fri Jun  6 15:25:02 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:25:02 +0200
Subject: SystemError always a bug?
Message-ID: <20030606192502.GA9693@nl.linux.org>

Hi,

am I right that the following is a bug:

(Python 2.3b1+)
 51 >>> class Foo(object):
 51 ...  def __getstate__(self): raise
 51 ...
 52 >>> copy.copy(Foo())
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/copy.py", line 87,
in copy
    rv = reductor(2)
SystemError: NULL object passed to Py_BuildValue

...because it raises a SystemError?

I already submitted it as SF#749831. Python 2.2 does not have this problem
but complains about a missing __copy__. Whet an error is raised in __copy__
this problem doesn't occur. This problem originated while pickling when I
found out copying has the same effect.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
61. If the gardener has not completed the planting of the field,
leaving one part unused, this shall be assigned to him as his.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jun  4 17:06:34 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 21:06:34 GMT
Subject: Python IO performance?
References: <m33civ37b2.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <bbad44$2nv$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bbln0q$2vl$0@216.39.172.122>

On 31 May 2003 10:10:12 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <m33civ37b2.fsf at localhost.localdomain>,
>Ganesan R  <rganesan at myrealbox.com> wrote:
>>
>>I apologize for bringing up this topic again. I am sure I am missing
>>something obvious. I am a relatively recent perl to python convert
>>and I always had a nagging feeling that processing text files with
>>python was slow. 
>
>Although there has been some speedup in Python for this, Perl's current
>design wins over Python for two reasons (please let me know if my info
>is out of date):
>
>* Perl does not use thread-safe file I/O.  Even running in single-thread
>mode, making calls into the thread-safe OS subsystem slows things down.
I believe that thread-safe slowdown may be true, but the question to me
is why. Certainly the actual machine instruction sequences involved in these
calls take nowhere near the milliseconds of delay observed. They should be
on the order of microseconds, not milliseconds, on modern CPUs. A 7200 rpm disk
rotates at 8 1/3 ms per rev. That and inter-cylinder seek step times etc. will define
a physical limit to the streaming rate of data, once file structure info has been
cached and past initial seek and buffers are full (of course raid and/or multiple IDE
disks can make things more complicated). So the question becomes, why would optimal
reads be missed, if the CPU can finish its execution blips orders of magnitude faster
than disk revolutions?

My generic guess would be that an artificial delay is caused by some event/scheduling
implementation that e.g. posts events instead of doing something about them immediately,
even when they happen in a context where higher priority processes are available
(and anything should be higher priority than no process or or the idle process).

E.g., imagine what would happen if  a blocked (IO or lock) thread had to wait for the
next OS tick for the scheduler/dispatcher to allow the process to proceed to initiate the
next IO. Even with OS read-ahead buffering of file data in memory and disk controller track
caching etc., the system has to wait until data is removed before it can put more into the end
of that pipeline, so an artificial delay between removals (reads emptying buffers) will
have an effect. What the effect will be depends on the size of the delay vs the probability
of an optimal IO being missed because of it. Smaller delay, smaller probability, so the
effect can reduce toward pure periodic pacing of basic IO chunks.

The latter speculative theory applied to an assumed (IIRC) basic Linux time tick of 1 ms and
an IO chunk of 4k, would lead to a reading rate of about 4k/ms.

Interestingly (though perhaps not unlikely misleadingly ;-), that rate for 3MB is about what
Ganesan observed. I.e.,

real 0m0.716s vs (3MB/4k) * 1ms  or about .732

I'm not sure where the 16ms real speedup from predicted came from.
That would amount to 16*4k of IO that didn't block, I suppose.
If there were 64k of readahead, maybe that could account for it somehow
(though it doesn't seem consistent)? Ah well, this is speculation ... ;-)

>
>* Perl uses OS-specific FILE* hacks for speed; Python mostly sticks with
>simple, portable calls.
IMO if the latter does not result in max disk thoughput for simple IO, there is
room for improvement in the OS event/scheduling/dispatching and/or the interface(s) to it.
Not that that helps Python per se ;-/

PS. I wonder how the IO time for a mmap-ed file would compare. E.g., accessing every
512-th byte in the file ought to trigger the IO (or a bigger step if you know the clustering).

BTW, can you mmap /dev/null ?


Regards,
Bengt Richter



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jun 17 17:43:48 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:43:48 -0400
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com> <bcnova$ma5$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <bcnpei$96r$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <bco0f3$jvp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <3EEF8B94.84EA2400@engcorp.com>

Jarek Zgoda wrote:
> 
> Krzysztof Stachlewski <stach at fr.pl> pisze:
> 
> >> More than that - unlike Kerberos, Python can not be taken by any
> >> particular company and become its "flagship", while being screwed.
> >>
> >> Software Craftsmen, please, consider this fact when choosing a license
> >> for your product - only GNU GPL guarantees that your code will not be
> >> "taken away" by any company.
> >
> > Python is not GPL (something has changed from yesterday?)
> > It is GPL compatible. This is not the same.
> 
> Did I say "Python Craftsmen"? No, I didn't...

You said "Software Craftsmen", and Python _is_ software.

Now you need to explain how the Python license would allow a company
to "take away" Python from those who work on it.

If you can't do this, the truth of your statement that "only GNU GPL" 
guarantees this is brought into question.



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jun 16 04:30:01 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:30:01 +0200
Subject: DNS/MX Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <10F0E58C0018054484E329DC494C4D7F949144@mexper1>
References: <10F0E58C0018054484E329DC494C4D7F949144@mexper1>
Message-ID: <3EED8009.5040404@ghaering.de>

Simon Wittber (Maptek) wrote:
> I have to ask...
> 
> Are you writing a tool to scan for open mail relays?

There's nothing wrong with writing such a tool. It depends on what 
you're using it for.

-- Gerhard





From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jun  4 22:17:46 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:17:46 -0700
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.3999999999 ?
References: <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com> <mailman.1053017062.18647.python-list@python.org> <895e4ce2.0306021736.13c657a5@posting.google.com> <slrnbdo1i8.a95.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3EDC1074.CA05EC23@alcyone.com> <u60tdvcau9j1ftu7rh05bv4leioate5afn@4ax.com> <bbm8aq$ld3$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3EDEA84A.389C1AC5@alcyone.com>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> Anyway, so I wish to know which definition of the reals you
> refer to, in the sense that I though all the definitions used (like
> continued fractions) were equivalent to the common notation
> where "0.99999...." does equal 1.

There are all sorts of alternative definitions of the reals which have
differing properties than the reals we've all come to know and love. 
They usually fall under the general category of "non-standard analysis."
I'm not familiar with the particular alternative that the original
poster mentioned, but non-standard analysis can be employed to get all
sorts of weird things, where you have for instance infinities that are
elements of the (non-standard) reals, often called "projected reals"
(and there's a few different ways of doing it).  Same thing's probably
going on here.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Said it? yep / Regret it? nope
\__/  Ice Cube



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun 11 14:40:25 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:40:25 +0200
Subject: PEP318: property as decoration
In-Reply-To: <bc7ibf$fjv$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
References: <bc568h$5t4$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <DIuFa.5725$Gm4.690616@news20.bellglobal.com> <bc7ibf$fjv$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <20030611184025.GB5575@nl.linux.org>

Sean Ross wrote:
>         def foo():
>                 def fget(self):
>                         return self._foo
>                 def fset(self, value):
>                         self._foo = value
>                 def fdel(self):
>                         del self._foo
>                 fdoc = "foo"
>                 return fget, fset, fdel, fdoc

Make that: "return fget, fset, fdel, __doc__".

>         foo = property(*foo())
> 
>         def bar():
>                 "a readonly property"
>                 def fget(self):
>                         return self._bar
>                 return fget,     # the trailing comma is required here

And that: "return fget, None, None, bar.__doc__"

>         bar = property(*bar())
> 

> Anyway...I found this interesting, so I thought someone else might enjoy it
> as well.

Yes, sure. If the class-solution wouldn't be such an abuse, I would use
that but it goes against the grain with me. Maybe I will start using
this way...

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
149. If this woman does not wish to remain in her husband's house, then
he shall compensate her for the dowry that she brought with her from her
father's house, and she may go.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From misterxx at uni-koblenz.de  Mon Jun 23 03:23:05 2003
From: misterxx at uni-koblenz.de (Oleg Seifert)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:23:05 +0200
Subject: python&zope
Message-ID: <3EF6AAD9.6050903@uni-koblenz.de>

Hello,


I want to put this script in Zope,

===============================
from socket import *

def read():
     print s.recv(1024)

s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
s.connect(("localhost", 99))

s.send("loadGraph(\"g.g\");\n")
read()
s.close()
===============================

but when I try to run this under Zope I get the error:

Error Type: RuntimeError
Error Value: Script (Python) anfrage has errors.

What I'm doing wrong?

Thanks.




From sameer_ at email.com  Wed Jun 11 09:08:31 2003
From: sameer_ at email.com (sameer)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 06:08:31 -0700
Subject: reading/writing files in windows
References: <6bd9f01b.0306090825.37845495@posting.google.com> <6bd9f01b.0306100407.474a10b3@posting.google.com> <3EE5D4AF.142ABB32@engcorp.com> <6bd9f01b.0306100916.126af2f8@posting.google.com> <3EE619A2.55D7AF44@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <6bd9f01b.0306110508.4dbdb84@posting.google.com>

thank you Peter for your ahem.... help.  The function I pasted is part
of a larger system so in this context it might have seemed confusing. 
I considered changing the name of the function to "n" but I do have a
"laborious" naming convention which explicitly says what the function
does.  Generally, I have had a lot of good help in the python
newsgroup and those answers are usually good and go straight to the
point.  I prefer the answer or no answer approach, rather than someone
who can go on and on about not having patience and lobriousness of my
naming convention.  Do you really think you're being helpful?  Not in
the least bit.  I would much prefer someone who would give me a
straight answer or none at all if he doesn't understand my question. 
Please learn to answer the question, and not drag on and on about
having no patience and your inability to understand, ad nauseam. 
You're not a least bit helpful, and I don't need a reply to this,
please!

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3EE619A2.55D7AF44 at engcorp.com>...
> sameer wrote:
> > 
> > why would it need to be in binary mode?  
> 
> Because mixing text and binary mode under Windows can cause all sorts
> of trouble with line termination and obviously you are having problems
> with line termination so I was asking you to verify that you are at
> least use the same mode for each part of the process.
> 
> What happens if you don't edit the file with Notepad?  Why are you
> editing the file with Notepad?  Can you produce a much smaller example
> program which still demonstrates the problem, preferably one that 
> uses only five or ten lines and doesn't have a lot of distracting
> cruft that has no bearing on the problem at hand?
> 
> > I create all files in 'a'
> > append mode.  All my code reads the file only in 'r' mode.  By
> > "jumbled" I you simply mean the lines are all joined together, as
> > though there were no linebreaks at all.
> 
> At what point do the files appear to be corrupted?  You say you
> are editing in Notepad, then saving, so presumably up until that
> point everything looks okay?  Where do you notice the problem 
> first arising?  In the input routine laboriously called
> _extract_published_retrieved_email_object(), or elsewhere?  
> 
> Perhaps at the point it writes "raw message is >>>"?  You
> don't appear to actually output anything anywhere else, so I
> can't tell what you mean.
> 
> > the code that generates the contents of the file
> 
> Sorry, I can't make head nor tails of what you're actually trying
> to do.  Perhaps someone else with more patience will be willing
> to try to decipher it, or perhaps you can take a bit more time to
> carefully describe the missing detail.
> 
> -Peter



From astonge at telus.net  Sun Jun 15 13:24:57 2003
From: astonge at telus.net (Adrian)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 10:24:57 -0700
Subject: ezPyCrypto encryption using only public key problem.
Message-ID: <3ae39fa7.0306150924.12aae909@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I've noticed that when encrypting a message using only just a public
key
I get an exception:

_fastmath.error: Private key not available in this object

So I did a little digging around in ezPyCrypto.py and saw that when
encrypting a message it does some sort of decryption verification.
As far as I know, you can't decrypt without a public/private key pair.

So, this kinda makes encrypting a message for someone else using their
public key kind of not working, but I could not just understand and
could be wrong.

I've also tried use RSA encrypting with just plain PyCrypto and it
works fine.

As a side note, I tried using the ezPyCrypto examples that show
encrypting a message with only the public key imported (example3.py),
and they fail to.

-- Adrian St. Onge



From nntp at sigma360.org  Tue Jun  3 19:28:39 2003
From: nntp at sigma360.org (nntp)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 18:28:39 -0500
Subject: Any solutions for serving methods with SOAP + WSDL?
Message-ID: <bbjaos$s95$1@sun-news.laserlink.net>

I have a project where I would like to expose some methods to other
processes, machines, etc VIA SOAP. I've tried several of the more popular
solutions (SOAPpy and ZSI). They work fine Python to Python, but, as much
as I hate to say it, I'd need Visual Studio .NET to be able to pickup and
call these methods, which requires the SOAP server to publish WSDL
information.

I've been searching the web and newsgroups for a few days trying to find a
SOAP server object that will produce WSDL. I've seen a number of
messages/pages that hint that it can either be done with this package or
that package, or that it's coming soon / being worked on. So far, I haven't
any luck.

Does such a thing exist for Python? Is it in the works? What projects either
do this or are working towards this? I've even considered starting to
modify SOAPpy or ZSI to do this, but I figure it's either very difficult,
or some other problem is preventing someone more knowledgable than I form
having already done this. 

I'd prefer to use Python for this project. But, if Python just isn't there
yet, then are there any Open Source projects/languages that are known to
talk to VS .NET? (I assume Java can, but, I'm not too excited about using
Java for this project).



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jun  6 23:19:36 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 05:19:36 +0200
Subject: Copying Files
References: <tlcEa.92271$%e.5967562@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bbrlga$lfe$2@main.gmane.org>

Stan Cook wrote:

> Can someone give me a clue on using the copyfile function?  I've tried
> implementing it in this fashion without success.
>
> copyfile(d:\work\temp.dbf, d:\w)

you have to put strings in quotes, and you also have to be
extra careful if the strings contain backslashes:

try this:

    copyfile("d:/work/temp.dbf", "d:/w")

or this:

    copyfile(r"d:\work\temp.dbf", r"d:\w")

a couple of minutes spent on reading the Python tutorial might
be a good investment.  see e.g.

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node5.html#SECTION005120000000000000000

or read one or more of the documents listed here:

    http://www.python.org/doc/Newbies.html

</F>







From paddy3118 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT  Sun Jun 29 11:51:48 2003
From: paddy3118 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT (Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:51:48 +0100
Subject: AN ENROLMENT PROJECTION PROBLEM
References: <37ee60c8.0306290442.60be2b57@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EFF0B14.4090307@blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT>


Ajith Prasad wrote:
> I would appreciate advice on how best to formulate the following
> problem in Python. I have originally posted the problem to the J
> Programming forum and received a one-line formulation ((#s)
> (|.s)&(+/@:*)\ I)! I was wondering what the equivalent Python
> formulation would be.

Wow! that one line formulation is dense.
Why do you *want* a compact answer?
I'm curious, if you put it down, do you have problems undestanding the 
above program in a weeks time?
Or in a days time?

Cheers, Pad.


> 
> The Problem:
> 
> The enrolment E(n) of an institution at the beginning of year n is the
> sum of the intake for year n, I(n), and the survivors from the intakes
> of previous r years. Thus, if s(1) is the 1-year intake survival rate,
> s(2) is the 2-year survival rate, etc, we have:
> 
> E(n)= I(n)+I(n-1)*s(1)+ I(n-2)*s(2)+...+I(n-r)*s(r)
> E(n+1)= I(n+1)+I(n)*s(1)+I(n-1)*s(2)+... +I(n-r-1)*s(r)
> .
> .
> .
> E(n+k)= I(n+k)+I(n+k-1)*s(1)+I(n+k-2)*s(2)+...+I(n+k-r)*s(r)
> 
> Given:
> (a) the actual intakes for the current and previous r years, I(n),
> I(n-1),I(n-2),..,I(n-r), and the planned intakes for the next n+k
> years: I(n+1), I(n+2),..., I(n+k), we have the intake vector I =
> (I(n-r), I(n-r-1),...,I(n),I(n+1),..., I(n+k)); and
> (b) the survival rate vector, s = (1,s(1), s(2),...,s(r))
> Find:
> The  k*1 enrolment projection column vector, E =
> (E(n+1),E(n+2),...,E(n+k)) in terms of a k*(r+1) matrix P (derived
> from
> I) and the (r+1)*1 column vector, s.
> 
> I = P*s
> 
> Is there a compact Python representation of the relevant matrix P
> where:
> 
> P = [I(n+1) I(n) I(n-1).. . I(n-r)
>      I(n+2) I(n+1) I(n)...  I(n-r-1)
>      .
>      .
>      I(n+k) I(n+k-1) I(n+k-2)... I(n+k-r)]
> 
> Alternatively, a non-matrix formulation of the problem would be
> acceptable. Thanks in advance for any suggestions on how to proceeed.




From jkraska at san.rr.com  Tue Jun 10 20:58:24 2003
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 00:58:24 GMT
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <mailman.1055261361.12074.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <v0vcev8pngsr6euu8lvl9l4pbqe2fnrgpc@4ax.com>

>Yes, but computer languages do not benefit from having words
>with multiple distinct meanings.

Failure to establish a benefit is not an existence proof of a
detriment. Be that as it may, I agree with you that an alternate
word would be helpful (although it has the disadvantage of breaking
backwards compatability, whereas reusing an old keyword does not).
to muddle things up.

There are many options:

Various punctuation-governed:

	def myfunc (myvar); synchronized:
	def myfunc (myvar), final:

Modifier tuple first:
	
	def (synchronized) myfunc (myvar):
	def (final, synchronized) myfunc (myvar):

Modifier tuple second:

	def myfunc (myvar) (synchronized):
	def myfunc (myvar) (final, synchronized):

Different keyword:

	def myfunction (myvar) using final, synchronized:

Where "using" is defined to mean "using the semantics
of".

C//




From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Mon Jun  9 13:39:19 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 17:39:19 GMT
Subject: pickling from C
Message-ID: <bD3Fa.54383$4_1.14116131@twister.nyc.rr.com>

(sorry if you read this before, I accidentally replied to a post I was
reading)
I am exploring a possibility of having a c++ module write files in pickle
format to be later processed with python. How difficult is this to do?
(let's say all I need to write are some string-to-in-list dictionaries). Is
there a project to do this somewhere?

thanx,


--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]






From martin_p at despammed.com  Wed Jun 11 18:24:13 2003
From: martin_p at despammed.com (Martin P)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:24:13 +0200
Subject: How to test if a variable has a natural number?
Message-ID: <bc8a37$flfio$1@ID-108519.news.dfncis.de>

Hello,

how can I find out if the number of a variable
is a natural number or not?

Bye,
Martin





From lxwrpp at yhd65.com  Mon Jun 30 06:55:48 2003
From: lxwrpp at yhd65.com (lxwrpp at yhd65.com)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 10:55:48 GMT
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Message-ID: <3f001734$0$294$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>

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From: lxwrpp at yhd65.com
Newsgroups: alt.humor.dutch,comp.lang.python,alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++
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2. E-Z To read Original Drawings. 
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Something you can't do without.

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From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Fri Jun 13 13:51:21 2003
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:51:21 -0300
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
In-Reply-To: <20030610190206.54459.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <16102.10640.855883.967908@montanaro.dyndns.org> <20030610190206.54459.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030613175120.GA6886@ibook.distro.conectiva>

> >     >> 4.5) Leaving if:, elif:, and else: on their
> > own lines for fear of
> >     >>      scorn or deprecation.
> > 
> >     5) Discovering list comprehensions and then
> > dumping filter() and map().
> 
>       6) Belive that "self" is not ugly

7) You don't understand why most languages don't have
   for/else and while/else.

8) You use the interactive interpreter as a calculator.

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer

[ 2AAC 7928 0FBF 0299 5EB5  60E2 2253 B29A 6664 3A0C ]




From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Fri Jun 20 07:16:54 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:16:54 +0200
Subject: Multiple string.replace in one run
Message-ID: <bcuqfh$nbvnm$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Hi!

I want to replace strings in a file:
 $VAR$ should be replaced with "foo".

I could do this with string.replace, but
if I want to replace several variables, I need to
do the replace several times. Since the file could
be very long I am searching for a better solution.

How can I replace several variables at once?

Example:

foo.html:
<html>
 <head>
  <title>$TITLE</title>
 </head>
 <body>
  $TITLE
  $TABLE_overview$
  blu, blu
 </body>
</html> 

myreplace({"TITLE": "my title", 
           "TABLE_overview": "Look"}, foo_content)

upto now:
foo_content.replace("$TITLE$", "my title").replace("TABLE_overview", "Look")

 thomas




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jun  1 03:09:15 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 09:09:15 +0200
Subject: pickle vs cPickle: error is not raised / windows vs linux?
Message-ID: <3ed9a69c$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

I'm experiencing  a problem with pickle vs cPickle.
The code below prints:
***pickle***
Creating t...
Thing.__init__ name= myname
Pickle t...
Restore t...
FAIL!!!  maximum recursion depth exceeded
***cPickle***
Creating t...
Thing.__init__ name= myname
Pickle t...
Restore t...
SUCCESS!!! name= myname

running with python 2.2/2.3 under windows and linux.

When I enable the __getinitargs__, I also get strange results:
- python 2.2.2 under windows tells me with pickle: FAIL!!!  __main__.Thing is 
not safe for unpickling.  (cPickle works)
- python 2.3b under windows tells me everything is fine
- python 2.2.2 *and* 2.3b under linux tell me everything is fine

(When I enable __setstate__, all cases work.)

My questions:
1) with the unmodified code, why doesn't cPickle raise an error when the 
unpickling gets in an endless loop ?
2) in the second case with __getinitargs__ enabled, why does windows tell me 
the object isn't safe to unpickle, while linux says it's all right?


Thanks for any answers!!

--Irmen


CODE:
------------------------------------
import pickle, cPickle

class Thing:
	def __init__(self,aname):
		print "Thing.__init__ name=",aname
		self.name=aname
	def __getattr__(self, attrname):
		self.name.trim()   # any method on the name attribute..
		raise AttributeError()

# enable the setstate *AND/OR* getinitargs method to make it work for pickle:
#	def __setstate__(self,args):
#		print "SETSTATE! args=",args
#		self.__dict__=args
#	def __getinitargs__(self):
#		print "GETINITARGS!"
#		return ["initname"]

def test(pickle):
	print "Creating t..."
	t=Thing("myname")
	try:
		print "Pickle t..."
		s=pickle.dumps(t)
		print "Restore t..."
		t2=pickle.loads(s)
		print "SUCCESS!!! name=",t2.name
	except Exception,x:
		print "FAIL!!! ",x

print "***pickle***"
test(pickle)

print "***cPickle***"
test(cPickle)




From dave at nullcube.com  Mon Jun  2 02:06:39 2003
From: dave at nullcube.com (Dave Harrison)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:06:39 +1000
Subject: dictionary issue (and maybe PEP ... depending on the answer)
In-Reply-To: <0wBCa.651$ig1.627675@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
References: <0wBCa.651$ig1.627675@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <20030602060639.GA470@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>

My quick - ignorant - question is :

Why dont we get :

1, 11, 12, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

dsavitsk (dsavitsk at ecpsoftware.com):
> (Python 2.2.1 on FreeBSD 4.7 being used via mod_python 3)
> 
> I have a dictionary at the top of a module that looks like this
> 
> _months = {1: 'January',
> 	   2: 'February',
> 	   3: 'March',
> 	   4: 'April',
> 	   5: 'May',
> 	   6: 'June',
> 	   7: 'July',
> 	   8: 'August',
> 	   9: 'September',
> 	   10: 'October',
> 	   11: 'November',
> 	   12: 'December'}
> 
> never mind, for now, that there are proably better ways to do what the 
> dict obviously does.  anyhow, I get a list of the months by doing this
> 
> >>> [_months[i] for i in _months.keys()]
> 
> The issue is, this consistently returns the months in order. I don't see 
> any obvious reason that it does, but I can't get it to fail. So,I am 
> wondering if there is a reason, or is it serendipity.
> 
> Assuming that there is not a good reason, the PEP idea is adding a 
> sorted_keys() method to dictionaries which would just return the keys in 
> the same order they would be in by doing this.
> 
> >>> l = d.keys()
> >>> l.sort()
> 
> The advantage is that using dictionary keys in list comprehensions would 
> be easier, but other than that it is not too big a deal.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Doug
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From joch at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Jun 23 15:26:05 2003
From: joch at blueyonder.co.uk (John Ochiltree)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:26:05 +0100
Subject: Python 2.3 - Is the release still on schedule?
In-Reply-To: <MuoJa.149$WL6.85@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <MuoJa.149$WL6.85@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <jvIJa.12$xn6.0@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

John Ochiltree wrote:
> Hi all,
> Can anyone comment on the current state of play of the 2.3 release 
> schedule? Has it slipped?
> 
> John
> 
Thanks, I want to use the 2.3 Set functionality. Has anyone an idea of 
suitable strategies to deal with this temporarily, e.g. ship a 2.3 
interpretor with the app (any drawbacks?), or ship it with the 
functionality provided in 2.2 (in which case, can someone point me to 
some code?)

Thanks again,

John




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Tue Jun 24 10:32:32 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:32:32 +0200
Subject: d.keys() and d.values()
In-Reply-To: <20030624120941.GA12312@hishome.net>
References: <20030624100333.GA2595@nl.linux.org> <20030624120941.GA12312@hishome.net>
Message-ID: <20030624143232.GA3387@nl.linux.org>

Oren Tirosh wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 12:03:33PM +0200, Gerrit Holl wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > is it guaranteed that dict(zip(d.keys(), d.values())) == d?
> > In words, do .keys() and .values() always have the same order? Is
> > it safe to rely on this?
> 
> Yes, as long as the dictionary is not modified between these calls.
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesmapping.html

Oops! I should have searched the docs more carefully.

Sorry!

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
121. If any one store corn in another man's house he shall pay him
storage at the rate of one gur for every five ka of corn per year.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Jun 22 17:55:55 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:55:55 -0400
Subject: Python 2.3 - Is the release still on schedule?
In-Reply-To: <MuoJa.149$WL6.85@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEHCELAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[John Ochiltree]
> Can anyone comment on the current state of play of the 2.3 release
> schedule? Has it slipped?

The 2.3 release schedule is here:

    http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0283.html

It's obviously slipped close to a month already.  I expect it will slip
more, since Guido will be on the road most of the next several weeks.
Indeed, he hasn't had enough time to update the release PEP!  Most of the
time we could make for releases lately got consumed by the unplanned 2.2.3
bugfix release in late May (which bashed into the planned 2.3b2 release
time, and won <wink>).

I'm not aware of any technical issues holding up the 2.3 plans -- just lack
of time to devote to it.  Of the "Planned features for 2.3" section in the
PEP, Guido completed the "integrate IDLEfork" one, and the goal of the
"import lock redesign" one is unclear.





From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Wed Jun 18 09:10:56 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:10:56 GMT
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <mailman.1055882854.8200.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xqxn0gfpm3j.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

sismex01 at hebmex.com writes:

> > From: cer1969 at hotmail.com [mailto:cer1969 at hotmail.com] 
> > Sent: Martes, 17 de Junio de 2003 03:40 p.m.
> > 
> > Carlos Moreira <duduca007 at yahoo.com> wrote in message 
> > > >     >> 3) Discovering filter() and map().
> > > > 
> > > >     >> 4) Fortifying classes with __setattr__() and friends.
> > > > 
> > > >     >> 4.5) Leaving if:, elif:, and else: on their
> > > > own lines for fear of
> > > >     >>      scorn or deprecation.
> > > > 
> > > >     5) Discovering list comprehensions and then
> > > > dumping filter() and map().
> > > 
> > >       6) Belive that "self" is not ugly
> > 
> > 7) You start writing a simple script and when you are 
> > finished you realize that you have a library
> >
> 
> 7.a) You finish writing a simple script, and realize it's going
>      to be an excellent library, and redo it again in a library
>      form, which is called by a separate script.  (*GUILTY*)
> 
> -gustavo
> --

You start all tasks, no matter how trivial, with an autogenerated
project-and-script which is already usable as both a script and a
library.

> 
> Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
> restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
> persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
> este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
> la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.
> 

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757



From m at moshez.org  Tue Jun 17 13:22:26 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 17:22:26 -0000
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
In-Reply-To: <87ptlcbr3u.fsf@gvdnet.dk>
References: <87ptlcbr3u.fsf@gvdnet.dk>, <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055859955.6466.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030617172226.29776.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Martin Christensen <knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk> wrote:

> I speak from experience when I say that this can quickly get on
> people's nerves. Whenever I mention Python, it is always accompanied
> by loud groans from my friends. :-)

Argh!
Same here, brother :)
Eventually, a place I worked in and was involved in choosing an embedded
scripting language went with TCL (as per my recommendation), because
I couldn't recommend Python without people suspecting me of...something.
Of course, in retrospect, TCL was clearly a worse choice than Python.
[Optional arguments and negative numbers mix badly]
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From claird at lairds.com  Sat Jun 21 21:38:56 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 01:38:56 -0000
Subject: Choosing between two Jython books...
References: <oprq494znqojfyi9@den.news.speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <vfa25gd6ecmve6@corp.supernews.com>

In article <oprq494znqojfyi9 at den.news.speakeasy.net>,
Marc Rochkind  <rochkind at basepath.com> wrote:
>I'm a very experienced programmer who knows both Python and Java, and I 
>thought I'd buy just one book on Jython, which sounds like something I'd 
>like to use.
>
>Which should I get:
>
>	Jython Essentials (Pedroni & Rappin)
>
>or
>
>	Jython for Java Programmers (Bill & Bill)
>
>I'm mainly interested in completeness and rigor... don't need a tutorial 
>approach.
>
>--Marc
>

Does <URL: http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=7822/ur0303f/ > help?
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jun  6 12:21:00 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 18:21:00 +0200
Subject: 64 bit python on AIX -- dynload_aix problem
References: <bbq3qu$a2a$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <m3el27gosz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"E. McKay Hyde" <hyde at math.umn.edu> writes:

> Does anyone have any suggestions?

As I said before: Just say no to dynamic loading, and link all
extensions statically, through Modules/Setup.

Alternatively, try Python 2.3; this supposedly has been fixed in
dynload_aix.c:2.13 (http://python.org/sf/639945). It also has been
backported to 2.2.3.

Regards,
Martin



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Thu Jun  5 15:04:49 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 12:04:49 -0700
Subject: test please ignore
In-Reply-To: <3EDF83A9.CEB4E29D@engcorp.com>
References: <bbnmcq$b6k$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl>
	 <3EDF83A9.CEB4E29D@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <1054839889.2139.44.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 10:53, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Suzanne Jansen wrote:
> [a test]
> 
> Suzanne, just FYI, there is a newsgroup designated specifically
> for testing, called misc.test .

I'd recommend comp.lang.lisp.  The people there are very friendly and
more than happy to help you test your newsreader.  Eric Naggum in
particular will probably send you a rather large post to verify that
your newsreader can handle long expositions and embedded epithets.   He
has on occasion even offered to fly across the globe to help others
understand.  All around terrific people there whose day-to-day
interactions with others have helped make Lisp the success it is today.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Jun 19 14:09:35 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:09:35 +0100
Subject: 2D Graphics Libraries for python?
References: <mailman.1056040777.16223.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jbGZxJAfxf8+Ew14@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1056040777.16223.python-list at python.org>, Ken Seehof
<kseehof at neuralintegrator.com> writes
>I'm looking for the right graphics library.  I've searched the web and found
>thousands of libraries that don't quite do what I need.  Is there anything out
>there that has the following features?
>
>- Beziers
>- Antialiasing (lines and beziers)
>- Transparent bitmaps
>- Portable (unix, linux, mac, windows)
>- Can be painted in a wxPython window
>
>If wxPython is not directly supported, perhaps some kind of hack would be
>possible, such as passing the window handle to library specific code.
>
>- Some image processing capabilities would be nice (adjust hue, color
>saturation, drop shadow, scale with resampling, etc.).
>
>Thanks,
>Ken
we used libart_lgpl in renderPM to do most of what you say. It has alpha
for transparency and many different ways to render stuff. We have
renderPM working on unix, linux, mac, windows so the underlying library
does as well. In our usage at least it has some numerical issues. As a
backend we used PIL to convert the pixel map canvas to gif etc.
-- 
Robin Becker



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jun 20 16:36:38 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:36:38 -0400
Subject: testing two lists for equality
References: <3064b51d.0306191140.3d4094fe@posting.google.com> <3EF2169D.3590ECBD@engcorp.com> <BswIa.3239$38.1069@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <mailman.1056115415.31859.python-list@python.org> <eppstein-9CBA88.08231220062003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3EF37056.9CB95419@engcorp.com>

David Eppstein wrote:
> 
> In article <mailman.1056115415.31859.python-list at python.org>,
>  Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
> 
> > Based on the search I just did for "lexicography" ("The art, process, or
> > occupation of making a lexicon or dictionary; the principles which are
> > applied in making dictionaries."), I'd say just about anything would be more
> > correct than the current phrasing.
> 
> Oh come on.  The fourth hit I found on Google for lexicographic order
> was http://mathworld.wolfram.com/LexicographicOrder.html
> which has a clear description of the ordering.  It is hardly an unknown
> or unfindable phrase.

Some people use Google for looking up the meanings of words, and
some people might think to use "lexicographic order" to make the
search even better, but I think the majority of people who don't
already know the meaning will do what I did: search on the nearest
online dictionary for "lexicographically", then find that it is
defined only in relation to the root "lexicography", then look up
that word and get the unhelpful definition which Skip quotes above.

It didn't even occur to me to consider it might have a specialized
meaning in mathematics or comp-sci, despite the context.  I just
assumed it was an ill-chosen ambiguous phrase and moved on, but 
at least in my case I already knew how the list equality comparison
worked, so I already knew what it was supposed to mean.

-Peter



From mwh at python.net  Thu Jun 12 13:53:32 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:53:32 GMT
Subject: europython wireless?
References: <7ghe77wt32.fsf@pikespeak.metacarta.com>
Message-ID: <7h3he6vkwyp.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

eichin at metacarta.com writes:

> Anyone know if there will be 802.11 coverage at EuroPython 2003, or if
> there are nearby net cafes?  Lacking that, is there GPRS (that
> t-mobile can roam to?)

If you bring a Cat5 cable, you'll be able to use that.  I don't know
about wireless, but I kind of doubt it.  I'd guess that GPRS will
work, but cost an arm and a leg (but this last advice is worth exactly
what you paid for it).

Cheers,
M.

-- 
31. Simplicity does not precede complexity, but follows it.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jun 27 13:18:02 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:18:02 +0200
Subject: How to memoize functions?
References: <mailman.1056726010.29497.python-list@python.org> <roy-95CD9F.12505927062003@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bdhu7o$p8c$1@main.gmane.org>

Roy Smith wrote:

> > Or, use a shelf instead of a dictionary.
>
> What's a shelf?

from shelve import Shelf

</F>







From haris.bogdanovic at zg.hinet.hr  Sat Jun 14 10:06:31 2003
From: haris.bogdanovic at zg.hinet.hr (Haris Bogdanovic)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 16:06:31 +0200
Subject: idle on linux
References: <bcepjg$bnvm$1@as201.hinet.hr> <mailman.1055584345.32740.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcfaj6$cm8l$1@as201.hinet.hr>

> Did you have Tk/Tcl installed when you built python?  While Tkinter is
> included, it can't (and silently won't) build if Tk isn't installed for it
to
> link up with...
>
> - -Zac

Yes, I have Tcl/Tk on my RedHat so that isn't the problem.





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Jun 21 07:32:00 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 13:32:00 +0200
Subject: sourceforge problems
References: <oP+b0PA97r8+Ew0C@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <m3llvwd2wp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <oc3rgJAZ648+Ewl6@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m3y8zvoedr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> well andy at rep***lab.com routinely uses pserver to do his checkins, with
> a 24 hour gap that is certainly a problem :(

I don't understand: On SF, you cannot checkin through pserver, so I
don't think this statement is literally true. It appears you are not
talking about the Python project here (as Andy Robinson can't commit
to that) - however, I agree this is a current problem. As I said, I
expect this to go away in a few months, atleast for the Python
project.

I have been considering to convert my own anonymous sandboxes to
read-write sandboxes, as well, to always get the current code.

> It seems that ssh is the way to go. We have systems where ssh 1 is
> not the default, but on win32 our clients all seem to be stuck on
> rsa 1.

Hmm. There are plenty of alternatives for setting up cvs+ssh on
Windows (OpenSSH, Cygwin OpenSSH and Putty come to mind). My preferred
solution is to use an SSH client which stores private keys in disk
files, and then not use any kind of pass-phrase on the key. Instead,
encrypt the file system with NTFS encryption (requires W2kSP3 or
WXP9). With that, no pass-phrase typing is needed when performing CVS
operations.

Regards,
Martin



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jun  6 13:33:10 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:33:10 -0400
Subject: Directory & File Monitoring
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306060731.21813c29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE0D056.288CC1F4@engcorp.com>

Steve wrote:
> 
> Hi;
> 
> I would like to write a python script for windows 2000 that will log
> who/what touches a particular file in a particular directory.
> 
> Is this possible with python alone or do I need to access some Windows
> api( and which one?)?

Probably not possible with Python alone, and certainly not something
that will be portable (not that you seem to mind).

Can you define what "touch" means?  Do you mean even looking at the
file, or do you mean in the more technical sense of the "touch"
utility, where at least the timestamp is modified?  Or do you just
want to know if the contents are actually changed?  What about if
the file is deleted?

Also, what do you mean by "who" and "what"?  The name of the 
application that is doing the touching, and the userid of the
authenticated user who is running that application?

Maybe even more useful would be for us to understand better why you
want to do this.  It's an unusual thing to want to do at the user
level (i.e. not as part of an OS security/logging feature) and
maybe there's a better solution.

-Peter



From paul at boddie.net  Fri Jun 27 05:13:18 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 02:13:18 -0700
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056387220.30017.python-list@python.org> <7ECdndDM99Lkq2qjXTWcqw@speakeasy.net> <23891c90.0306240052.78684551@posting.google.com> <vu-cnZQgo5841mWjXTWcrg@speakeasy.net> <23891c90.0306250145.20223c70@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0306270113.30eb56bb@posting.google.com>

paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) wrote in message news:<23891c90.0306250145.20223c70 at posting.google.com>...
>

[libxml2]

> Yes, it's very tempting to write a PyXML-style DOM API for it. Then we
> can use XPath (whether it be from PyXML or 4Suite) on our documents
> without having to port our source code just because some underlying
> implementation detail has changed.

Minor correction on my part, here: since libxml2 provides an XPath
implementation, the use of the PyXML/4Suite XPath implementations on
top of a libxml2 DOM layer wouldn't be strictly necessary, but it
might be nice to harmonise the APIs so that XPath contexts and queries
are accessed in the same way for all available implementations. Having
tried libxml2 and libxslt out recently, I certainly agree that they
seem very fast in comparison to other XML processing libraries.

Paul



From troy at gci.net  Tue Jun 17 01:44:34 2003
From: troy at gci.net (Troy Melhase)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:44:34 -0800
Subject: Looking for a (very) small http proxy in Python
References: <3eee1c7b$0$5407$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3eee204f$0$49108$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3eee254b$0$5388$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <vetalrqj9amvca@corp.supernews.com>

> to scan the headers, get the good cookie, cut and paste in my scripts and
> so on... I want something more automatic ! Any idea ?

Bruno:

You should look at ClientCookie.  On the homepage,
http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientCookie/ , it says:

"""
ClientCookie is a Python module for handling HTTP cookies on the client
side, useful for accessing web sites that require cookies to be set and
then returned later. It also provides some other (optional) useful stuff:
HTTP-EQUIV handling, zero-time Refresh handling, and lazily-seekable
responses
"""

I had need to do something similar just last week, and using ClientCookie
did the trick.

Good luck,
troy



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Jun  9 10:31:32 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:31:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <20030609081617512-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93959D559A750duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

[posted and mailed]

Kevin Smith <Kevin.Smith at sas.com> wrote in news:20030609081617512-
0400 at braeburn.themorgue.org:

>     More generally, 
> 
>         def foo(self) as <tuple>:
>             perform method operation
> 
>     The proposed syntax is simple, powerful, easy to read, and 
>     therefore preserves those qualities of the Python language.

<tuple> should be <callable or tuple> to avoid requiring a trailing comma 
for the common case where only one function modifier is used. In fact it 
would probably be simpler just to allow any expression that evaluates 
either to a callable or an iterable, I don't see any particular reason to 
insist on it producing a tuple here.

In fact, I could see a good argument for treating these modifiers in much 
the same way as exceptions are handled (when matching an exception you can 
specify either an exception or a tuple of things that can match an 
exception).

        def foo(self) as <modifier>:
            perform method operation

where modifier is any expression resulting in a callable or a sequence of 
modifiers.

I think your PEP should put the proposal at the top and the discussion of 
rejected options should be further down in the rationale. I really thought 
you were proposing 'def classmethod foo(cls):...' until quite a long way 
through the proposal.

You need to say what order the modifiers are applied when there is more 
than one. Specifically is it left to right, or right to left?

I wonder what the implementation of this should be. Should the bytecode 
that is produced implement a loop over the modifiers directly, or should 
there be a new builtin that takes the function and the modifiers as 
arguments and the bytecode simply has to call the function and assign its 
result to the name? The second of these sounds as though it ought to be 
simpler to implement.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Thu Jun  5 12:25:07 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:25:07 -0500 
Subject: data base
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304FC4820@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Alex [mailto:alexferri at email.it]
> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:21 AM
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I'm newbie
> 
> What is the cross-platform/free data base that I can use in 
> my project?
> 
> The data base not need of server db such as SQL 
> server/Oracle/mySql, but
> like a MS Access.
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> Alex - Italy
>

I'd recommend you take a look at Gerhard Haering's excellent
port of SQLite to Python: PySQLite (you knew that, didn't you?).

SQLite is a C libary which embeds a SQL engine and a database
manager into your applications; it's quite small, and terribly
fast (err... "hideously fast".. hmmm... "awfully fast"...)
very, very fast. :-)

I don't have an URL handy, but I believe it's at
   http://pysqlite.sf.net/

like all worthy open-source projects. :-)

hth!

-gca
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From exarkun at intarweb.us  Tue Jun 24 15:40:38 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:40:38 -0400
Subject: cvs checkout question
In-Reply-To: <rowen-23834F.12133824062003@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
References: <rowen-23834F.12133824062003@nntp4.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <20030624194038.GA21940@meson.dyndns.org>

On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 12:13:38PM -0700, Russell E. Owen wrote:
> 
> cvs [login aborted]: recv() from server cvs.python.sourceforge.net: 
> Connection reset by peer

  This is a symptom of high load on sourceforge's servers.  You are doing
everything correctly, but are being denied access anyway.  If you are
persistent, you should be able to sneak in when the load drops sufficiently.

  Jp

-- 
It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to
students that have had prior exposure to BASIC: as potential
programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of
regeneration.        -- Dijkstra




From dahqlvist at sundsvall.mail.telia.com  Fri Jun  6 09:29:15 2003
From: dahqlvist at sundsvall.mail.telia.com (Anders Dahlqvist)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:29:15 GMT
Subject: (newbie)cgi-problem
Message-ID: <LG0Ea.10468$mU6.14411@newsb.telia.net>

I'm a total newbie to cgi-programming in python, so please bear with me.
I've written a script (see below) that doesn't do what I want it to, i.e
work as a standalone program
------------------funktioner.py--------------------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python



import os,time,cgi,cgitb
from data import * 

cgitb.enable()


def htmlstart(titel):
        print  htmlhuvud % (titel, titel, time.strftime("%F %X",time.localtime()))

def htmlstop():
        print htmlslut




def tabell(typ):
        if typ in lista0:
                tabellhuvud="<TABLE BORDER=1><TR><TH>databas</TH><TH>url</TH></TR>"
                html=os.popen("mysql --host=loke --user=apache arbeten --exec='select
databas,url from rekrytering where %s=1'" % typ).readlines() 
        elif typ in lista1:
                tabellhuvud="<TABLE
BORDER=1><TR><TH>databas</TH><TH>url</TH><TH>email</TH></TR>"
                html=os.popen("mysql --host=loke --user=apache arbeten --exec='select
databas,url,email from rekrytering where %s=1'" % typ).readlines()
        print tabellhuvud
        #Skapa en ny lista, inneh?llande listor med  varje rad i en egen lista
        lista=[]
        for rad in html:
                resrad=rad.replace('\n','')
                nyrad=resrad.split("\t")
                lista.append(nyrad)

        
        if typ in lista0:
                for underlista in lista[1:-1]:#F?rsta raden ing?r i tabellhuvud
                        print "<TR><TD>%s</TD><TD><A HREF='%s'>%s</A></TD></TR>" %
(underlista[0],underlista[1],underlista[1])
        elif typ in lista1:
                for underlista in lista[1:-1]:
                        print "<TR><TD>%s</TD><TD><A HREF='%s'>%s</A></TD><TD><A
HREF='mailto:%s'>%s</A></Td></TR>" %
(underlista[0],underlista[1],underlista[1],underlista[2],underlista[2])
        print tabellslut

---------------------funktioner.py-------------------
The problem i have that it doesn't work as  a standalone program(i.e it
doesn't recognize the variables titel and typ), when i try to access it via
http://81.228.27.158/cgi-bin/python/funktioner.py?titel=Inskick&typ=inskick
although it works when invoked from
http://81.228.27.158/cgi-bin/python/inskick.py (code below)
---------------inskick.py----------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python 

import funktioner

titel="Inskick"
typ="inskick"

funktioner.htmlstart(titel)
funktioner.tabell(typ)
funktioner.htmlstop()
----------------inskick.py-----------------------
What am I doing wrong here?

Best regards

Anders Dahlqvist
--
In a minimum-phase system there is an inextricable link between
frequency response, phase response and transient response, as they
are all merely transforms of one another.  This combined with
minimalization of open-loop errors in output amplifiers and correct
compensation for non-linear passive crossover network loading can
lead to a significant decrease in system resolution lost.  However,
this all means jack when you listen to Pink Floyd.




From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Jun  2 11:21:36 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 17:21:36 +0200
Subject: reStructured Text - suitable for non-documentation?
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0306020703.3db3a717@posting.google.com>
References: <slrnbdle2r.h32.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <2259b0e2.0306020703.3db3a717@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EDB6B80.7090608@mxm.dk>

Michele Simionato wrote:

> Recently, I have found a nice application for rst in the context of
> DDD (Documentation Driven Development, dunno if the acronym already
> exists ;)
> and I thinks it may be of interest to people here (if not to the OP).


Knuth beat you to it. Google for "litterate programming"


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M Rasmussen, Denmark

http://www.futureport.dk/
Fremtiden, videnskab, skeptiscisme og transhumanisme




From Kevin.Smith at sas.com  Tue Jun  3 16:45:18 2003
From: Kevin.Smith at sas.com (Kevin Smith)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 20:45:18 GMT
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
Message-ID: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>

The current way of declaring a method to be a class method or a static 
method leaves much to be desired.  While it is flexible in the sense 
that new types of method modifiers can be created without any 
syntactical backwards incompatibilities, it just isn't that user-
friendly (and, in turn, not Pythonic).

A new proposed syntax for method modifiers is as follows:

    def classmethod foo(cls):
        <code goes here>

    def staticmethod bar():
        <code goes here>

An optional keyword is added before the function name itself.  This 
keyword is simply a reference to a function that will be applied to the 
method once the method is compiled.  In essence, the above syntax 
expands to:

    def foo(cls):
        <code goes here>
    foo = classmethod(foo)

    def bar():
        <code goes here>
    bar = staticmethod(bar)

The motivation here isn't so much terseness as it is understandability.  
The call to classmethod() or staticmethod() in this short example is 
very close to the original 'def', so it is easy to follow.  However, if 
the method is any more than about 15 lines of code, the transformation 
to a class method or static method isn't obvious.  The proposed syntax 
puts the class/static method conversion at the point of definition where 
it makes the most sense.  This placement also makes it easier for 
documentation generators or IDEs to give visual cues when class or 
static methods are used.

I am not familiar with how the classmethod() or staticmethod() functions 
actually work and if they would support this, but a possible extension 
to the original syntax would be to add multiple modifiers before the 
method name.

    def protected classmethod foo(cls):
        <code goes here>

This would expand to:

    def foo(cls):
        <code goes here>
    foo = protected(classmethod(foo))
  
What all this boils down to is that any function that can return a new 
function reference (i.e. classmethod()/staticmethod()/protected()) when 
given a function reference (i.e. foo/bar) could be used as a modifier.  
If it is technically feasible, it would be nice if multiple modifiers 
were allowed.  The proposed syntax does not cause any backwards 
incompatibilities since it is simply uses the existing function 
modifiers and they can still be used the way they were originally 
designed.

-- 
Kevin Smith
Kevin.Smith at sas.com



From phoenixathell at gmx.de  Thu Jun 12 13:12:23 2003
From: phoenixathell at gmx.de (Phoenix@Hell)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 10:12:23 -0700
Subject: Documentation Tool & UML
Message-ID: <a35b36be.0306120912.40bf916f@posting.google.com>

Hi,

short question.
What is the best tool to build a API reference for a python program ?
And is there a tool available that can generate python code from an UML ?

Thx



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Jun 26 16:19:24 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:19:24 -0400
Subject: XML
References: <3EF6E9A1.74E45E69@hotmail.com>
 <mailman.1056387220.30017.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnbfgddn.1sv.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
 <gRy++ks/KnyG089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <MV1++kKkXcxR092yn@gnosis.cx>         

mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) wrote previously:
|   And there isn't much to XML.  There's a first line of
|version information... Then there's
|the XML object, of the form
|        <bracket metadata> contents </bracket>
|Add a shortcut <bracket metatdata />

Add entity escaping
Add namespace declarations
Add namespace modified tags
Add namespace modified attributes
Add CDATA sections
Add Processing Instructions
Add Character entities
Add Numeric entities
Add DTD declarations
Add infoset modification
Add validation against DTDs
Add comments
Add whitespace normalization
Add specification of ignorable and non-ignorable whitespace

... and then you're almost there.

What could be easier?

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun 10 11:23:06 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:23:06 -0600
Subject: [OT] interpreted
In-Reply-To: <87n0gqf7ob.fsf@pobox.com>; from jjl@pobox.com on Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 01:17:40PM +0100
References: <M6icneVATOpIWn6jXTWcrg@comcast.com> <5yednTf1NoAdanmjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1055194463.17365.python-list@python.org> <87n0gqf7ob.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20030610092306.E374@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth John J. Lee:
  [...]
> Pseudonymous cowards would be more accurate, perhaps.
> 
> As opposed to nonymous and demi-nonymous cowards.  ;-)

Actually the negating prefix is 'an-' here, not just 'a-'.  Thus
'named' would be 'onymous'.  Ultimately such words are from Greek
<onyma>.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                7\ 7'Z {&~         .
staschuk at telusplanet.net                        Y r          --/hG-
                                            (__/ )_             1^1`




From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Jun 18 16:27:46 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:27:46 -0700
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
References: <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6@posting.google.com> <eppstein-0047EB.09403118062003@news.service.uci.edu> <3EF0AAFB.DDA5F555@engcorp.com> <eppstein-1DFD94.11562718062003@news.service.uci.edu> <3v3Ia.109349$pR3.2389728@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <eppstein-B149A1.13274618062003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3v3Ia.109349$pR3.2389728 at news1.tin.it>,
 Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

> > Ok, what's the quickest way to build a new object that's guaranteed
> > unequal to any previous object?  E.g.
> > [x for x, y in zip(L, [lambda x:x]+L) if x != y]
> > 
> > There must be a better way to do this than with a lambda.
> 
> Actually, "lambda:0" is a good candidate for "an object that's
> not gonna equal any object with a different id()" -- it's just
> 8 characters.  "object()" is also 8 characters.  Not sure what
> you mean by "quickest" or "better", but number of characters in
> the source seems an objective-enough measurement.

Sorry for the imprecise language.  I think what I really meant was 'most 
pythonic'.  I prefer object() to lambda:0 since lambda to me implies 
some kind of functional programming which is not present here.

It's tempting to use "not L[0]" instead (since what I want is an object 
that's not equal to L[0]) but that fails when L is empty.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From alet at unice.fr  Thu Jun 26 17:08:19 2003
From: alet at unice.fr (Jerome Alet)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 23:08:19 +0200
Subject: How to memoize functions?
References: <3efb54b3$1_2@corp-news.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.26.21.08.18.735289@unice.fr>

Le Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:29:07 -0400, Chris Reedy a ?crit :

> The obvious way to memoize a function would be to keep a dictionary with
> keys being tuples (or maybe dictio naries) of previous argument lists
> and values being the results of the previous computations.
> 
> Unfortunately, this will really mess up garbage collection, since
> objects that are arguments could never be collected.

first I must say that my answer is probably completely stupid.

however why would you want to use the original arguments tuple as a key ?

depending on the computational intensity of your original function, why
not compute some sort of hash (like an hex md5sum) on all the arguments
(converted to strings and concatenated) ?

this way your original arguments would still be garbage collectable (well,
at least I suppose), since only the hash would be used for the key.

again, it may be stupid, I don't know python internal enough

hth

Jerome Alet



From yuvalfeld at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 25 20:44:17 2003
From: yuvalfeld at hotmail.com (Yuval)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 17:44:17 -0700
Subject: copy an object
Message-ID: <6ca96053.0306251644.2570a43e@posting.google.com>

I have an object of a class I wrote myself, and now I want to copy it.
How do I do it? The reason I want to copy it is because if I simply
use copied_object=existing_object, when I later change
"copied_object", "existing_object" is changed as well, and I dont want
it to happen.

Thanks.



From eg at rootshell.be  Sun Jun 22 14:11:07 2003
From: eg at rootshell.be (Eliran Gonen)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:11:07 +0300
Subject: Remove duplicate letters in a word
Message-ID: <20030622181107.GA13125@rootshell.be>

Hello !

I'm new in this list.

Anyway, I'm trying to write some sort of encryption program (pretty
trivial and simple) that need to check for several occurences of a letter
in a specific word.

For example, in the word SECRET, E appears twice, I need to get rid of
the second instance of E.

I'm stuck here:

    for i in range(len(key)):
        for j in range(len(key)):
            if key[i] == key[j] :
                key[j] = ""

Hope you can help me,

TIA, EG




From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Tue Jun 10 09:55:07 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 14:55:07 +0100
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <mailman.1055217257.2562.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yfsk7buhwas.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> writes:
> >
> >def foo(spam) as classmethod:
> >    .....
> 
> This doesnt change my attitude to it. And if [,]-syntax is intuitevely
> understandable (to those who likes TeX/LaTeX), this syntax is misleading
> because "as" must mean "aka", as it is the case in Python's import operator
> or SQL's semantics.

Apart from the fact that the python user community is not by any approximation
a subset of the LaTeX community, I find the argument that 'as' is confusing
because it is already used in import statements or SQL pretty dubious -- 'as'
in English is obviously used in a variety of contexts and both the import and
this use seem quite natural to me. foo(spam)[classmethod], OTOH has no meaning
in English or any other language and in python denotes an indexing operation.


'as



From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jun  1 10:25:36 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:25:36 +0200
Subject: CGI question: safe passwords possible?
In-Reply-To: <cb035744.0306010235.5849604f@posting.google.com>
References: <cb035744.0305301401.3fdc8a96@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1054338287.30346.python-list@python.org>
	<bb8uhp$7594h$2@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de>
	<cb035744.0305302335.58d4f17a@posting.google.com>
	<3ED86146.F2029ADB@alcyone.com>
	<1054368881.10515.265.camel@lothlorien>
	<mailman.1054376930.25954.python-list@python.org>
	<7x1xyfgxq6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<cb035744.0305310955.16d699a0@posting.google.com>
	<cb035744.0306010235.5849604f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030601142536.GC416@mephisto.ghaering.de>

* Will Stuyvesant <hwlgw at hotmail.com> [2003-06-01 03:35 -0700]:
> I would like to thank you all for filling up some vacuums in my
> knowledge!
> 
> I was already experimenting with httplib and urllib2 modules to see if
> I can do HTTP Digest authentication but this is all very cumbersome
> and not compatible among hosts (as far as I understand).  But my
> conclusion is so much simpler that all this!  If you really want
> security, use HTTPS. [...]

You got it.

> [...] Simple, nice, elegant.
> 
> Am I right?  Is it true, the part about not having to change your HTML
> and CGI code?  Well, except for some URLs in them maybe, but they
> could be stored in a separate configuration file.  I mean, you maybe
> have to change things like http://yourhost/yourloginpage.html to
> http://yourhost/yourloginpage.shtml or something?

.sthml is usually server-parsed HTML. What you'd need to change is the
protocol. From http://... to https://...

Gerhard
-- 
http://ghaering.de/




From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Jun  9 22:59:24 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:59:24 +1200
Subject: PEP 318: Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055151317.13691.python-list@python.org>
References: <E19PDu0-00072g-00@sc8-pr-cvs1.sourceforge.net> <mailman.1055151317.13691.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc3g8h$e885j$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Gerrit Holl wrote:
> def synchonized(classmethod(foo(self)), lock)
       ^^^^^^^

I wonder what synchons are? Particles of synchronisation
found in very fine-grained parallelism, maybe?

Hoping-my-python-interpreter-won't-tunnel-through-the-GIL,

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Sat Jun 28 16:42:41 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 28 Jun 2003 13:42:41 -0700
Subject: Is it possible to write a Audio CD Player by using python only?
References: <bdespa$rku$1@news.seed.net.tw> <bdeufh$nmb$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <bdev3m$s0a$1@news.seed.net.tw>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0306281242.6eb7e12d@posting.google.com>

I came across this code in the internet sometime back. 
(I think it is from a pygame book published by Deitel & Deitel).

It actually shows you how to develop an audio cd player
step by step by using the interfaces provided by pygame.
The entire code is available. I actually tried it out
and it works.

(later)
Well, I did a google search on this, looks like many people
have done this already. Here is a link which I found where
the author has implemented a really cool looking player using
pygame.

http://msdl.cs.mcgill.ca/MSDL/people/tfeng/uml/cdplayer.html

And here is the deitel's CD player link...

http://www.informit.com/isapi/authorid~%7B7EFAA8A3-9A2D
-489F-B95E-953AB6B60826%7D/authors/author.asp

Well, thank me profusely... I have done your work for you (wink)

~Anand


"MiLF" <milf at tendoworld.com> wrote in message news:<bdev3m$s0a$1 at news.seed.net.tw>...
> libcdaudio is good but doesn't support all plateform, can you recommend
> another one that can croos-plateform?
> 
> "Steve McAllister" <nosp at m.needed> ?????
> news:bdeufh$nmb$1 at alto.univ-mlv.fr...
> > > Is it possible to write a Audio CD Player by using python only?
> >
> > Of course.  But ...  shall you reinvent the powder?  Cannot you
> > simply interface, for instance, libcdaudio?
> >



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Jun  7 14:16:53 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:16:53 -0400
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com>

"Ed Avis" <ed at membled.com> wrote in message
news:l17k7yjg5a.fsf at budvar.future-i.net...

> Yes... what we are talking about here, of course, is purely syntax.

According to long ago posts and other writings and interviews, when
GvR designed Python, he was quite aware of 'everything is an
expression' languages, whose existence proves that 'statements' are
not a syntactic necessity, and of the syntactical purity/homogeneity
of 'only expressions'.  He consciously choose the heterogenous mixture
of statements and expression as being more conducive to his goal of
readability, especially for beginners.  I believe this choice was
partly based on some experiments that were part of the projects he
worked on previously.  He was also, as I already reported, aware that
in some cases, the choice of statement versus expression for a
particular function was somewhat arbitrary in that there are tradeoffs
for either choice.

In any case, once he choose to have two syntaxes (statement vs
expression) for program functions and once the choice was made for
each, the difference became fundamental for Python's syntactical
design.  Expressions, but not statements, are used in assignment
statements, operator expressions, conditions, function calls,
collection indexing, and, yes, also in lambdas.  Making a singular
exception for lambdas would definitely complexify the language.
Someone who does like the statement/expression design should perhaps
learn one of the all-expression languages instead.

> Semantically there doesn't seem much difference between defining f
> that contains a print statement, and defining an anonymous function
> that has the same.

As I previously said, the only semantic difference between a lambda
and an equivalent def is the definition name.  Lambda is redundant
syntactic sugar for converting a restricted subset of defs to an
expression for syntactic convenience.  (Similarly, print is a
redundant convenience that condenses a restricted subset of
file.write() expressions by doing autoconversion and autoformatting.)

> If a clear and simple syntax can be worked out to

This is a big if.  No one that I know of has yet done so of in years
of discussion.

> let expressions appear in lambda-defined functions,

I presume you meant 'statement' rather that 'expression'.

> just as they can in ordinary functions, there doesn't seem to be
> any other reason to  prohibit it.

Yes there is.  It goes against Python's syntactic design and would
make a singular exception for lambdas (see above).  If substitutivity
were general, then Python would be quite different from what it is.

>  I think that the rule of 'anything that fits on one line'  is such
a simple rule

Simple?  'line' is not a syntactic category.  Do you mean physical
line (if so, any limit in length?) or logical line (same question)?
In either case, you are proposing a new syntactic category of
'pseudoline'.  Would you allow them to contain multiple statements,
separated by ';', like real lines?  If so, how do you indicate that
the scope of the first ';' starts not at the beginning of the real
line but the beginning of the pseudoline defined by some (which)
preceding lambda?  Could a line have multiple pseudolines, defined by
multiple lambdas, such as are now legal?  If so, how do you delimit
them and differentiate between sequential and nested pseudolines?
This is a lot of potential new complexity.

Expressions recursively nest within expressions, with () used as
needed to indicate the nesting.  Statements separate into simple
statements and compound statements, with the latter having bodies
consisting of nested statements (of either subtype) as indicated by
indents.  Sequential statements have same indent, nested statements
have additional indent.

>just as simple as 'any expression, but not a statement' and more
powerful.

To my mind, lambda is already too powerful in that it facilitates
writing obscure, very 'unPythonic' code.  Multiple nested lambda
substitute widely separated and hard to visually match '(' and ')'
pairs for easy to see indents as indicators of control structure.
Much of the obscurity come from having multiple nested local scopes
within one line.

So if we are to make special syntactic rules for lambda, I would like
to make them less powerful by restricting the expression body to
lambda-less expressions.  I think there is a grammatical category for
this so it might be easily possible.  This would be a compromise,
between keeping them as they are and removing them altogether, that
would still allow intended usage but restrict obscuration.

Terry J. Reedy





From david at totallyobjects.com  Thu Jun  5 04:39:09 2003
From: david at totallyobjects.com (David Pennington)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:39:09 +0100
Subject: [OT] Re: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <ff82ae1b.0306040559.26b314f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <WpDDa.33856$9C6.1512656@wards.force9.net>

Well, I currently spend 50% of my week making furniture commercially and 50%
writing Smalltalk. Current projects are a) an Arts and Crafts long case
clock and b) a web upload facility plus consultancy.

http://www.comptonwoodworks.co.uk and http://www.totalupload.com
See also http://www.totallyobjects.com

So maybe he was targeting me??

--
David Pennington
Totally Objects - The Smalltalk Resource http://www.totallyobjects.com


"goose" <ruse at webmail.co.za> wrote in message
news:ff82ae1b.0306040559.26b314f7 at posting.google.com...
> PupppyWizzard at glay.org (Pupppy Wizzard) wrote in message
news:<8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8 at posting.google.com>...
>
> <snipped>
>
> woodworking ???????
>
> goose,





From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Thu Jun 19 06:09:50 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:09:50 +0100
Subject: Feature Structures in Python (Part I)
References: <20030619053141.6BF4835EC4@www.fastmail.fm> <mailman.1056002504.24686.python-list@python.org> <3EF16277.FE8042B4@alcyone.com> <mailman.1056008614.20868.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vt23fvchkuk64120pd8e8kgjcufqihgqn3@4ax.com>

On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:42:51 +1000, Andrew Bennetts
<andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> wrote:

>My instinctive google-twitch got put off by how generic the terms "feature"
>and "structure" are, so I didn't expect searching would find any useful
>results...

Quotation marks are your friends :-)

Though in this case Google gets there even without them.



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Fri Jun 20 19:47:38 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:47:38 -0400
Subject: newbie: good reasons for learning Python?
References: <3ef37a28$0$306$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <ZVLIa.468$hY1.37549@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <o1NIa.611$hY1.47591@news20.bellglobal.com>

Better yet, go here:
http://99-bottles-of-beer.ls-la.net/

And browse how each language solves this relatively simple problem. (This is
how I discovered Python, BTW.)
I found only two implementations I liked better than the Python version (not
the minimal one): Smalltalk's and Ruby's.
They've replaced the Ruby one I liked with a very long winded version,
however. The one I liked was more like this:

99.downto(1)  do | i |
    puts "#{ i } bottle#{ 's' if i > 1 } of beer on the wall"
    puts "#{ i } bottle#{ 's' if i > 1 } of beer"
    puts "take one down, pass it around"
    puts "#{ i==1 ? 'no' : i-1 } bottle#{ 's' if i != 2 } of beer on the
wall\n"
end

Seeing how different languages solve the same problem can help you decide
which languages you'd like to learn (and not learn!).
This particular problem exhibits a languages' use of looping and conditional
constructs, as well as display (which are the meat and potatoes of
programming).

BTW, you can do something similar to the Ruby version in Python, though the
"and/or" idiom is *strongly* discouraged for its potential pitfalls. (Let's
go, PEP 308!  heh)

for i in xrange(99, 0, -1):
    print "%s bottle%s of beer on the wall" % (i, i > 1 and 's' or '')
    print "%s bottle%s of beer" % (i, i > 1 and 's' or '')
    print "take one down, pass it around"
    print "%s bottle%s of beer on the wall\n" % (i==1 and 'no' or i-1, i !=
2 and 's' or '')





From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Fri Jun 13 10:32:44 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:32:44 +0200
Subject: Type hierarchy
Message-ID: <20030613143244.GA4631@nl.linux.org>

Hi,

currently, almost all types directly inherit from object. The only
exceptions are string and unicode, which inherit from basestring.
But wouldn't a type hierarchy be very useful for other types as
well? For example, checking whether something is a number, currently
needs isinstance(o, int) or isinstance(o, long), or float... although
ints and longs are going to be the same. Would it be wise to let those
have common base types?

For example:

object
 |
 +-- sequence
 |    |
 |    +-- immutable
 |    |    |
 |    |    +-- basestring
 |    |    |    |
 |    |    |    +-- string
 |    |    |    +-- unicode
 |    |    |
 |    |    +-- tuple
 |    |
 |    +-- mutable
 |         |
 |         +-- list
 |         +-- array
 |
 +-- mapping
 |    |
 |    +-- dict
 |
 +-- number
 |    |
 |    +-- int
 |         +-- bool
 |    +-- long
 |    +-- float
 |    +-- complex
 |
 +-- internal
      |
      +-- code
      +-- frame
      +-- traceback

...etc. Could this possibly be a good idea? Is it PEP-worthy?

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
198. If he put out the eye of a freed man, or break the bone of a freed
man, he shall pay one gold mina.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jun 12 19:09:37 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:09:37 -0600
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
In-Reply-To: <84fc4588.0306112339.10a4012b@posting.google.com>; from pythonguy@Hotpop.com on Thu, Jun 12, 2003 at 12:39:43AM -0700
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com> <84fc4588.0306112339.10a4012b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030612170937.A2465@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Anand Pillai:
> Manuel Garcia <news at manuelmgarcia.com> wrote:
  [...]
> > print (lambda p:p[0]+'.'+p[1:])(
> >     str((lambda(x,y,t,a):2L*x*x//a)(
  [...]
> This almost qualifies for an "obfuscated" code winner! ;-)

In my opinion, the obfuscations are of mixed quality; while it is
obfuscated, it is not very artistically obfuscated (if I may use
such a phrase).

The algorithm proper (as opposed to its presentation) is quite
direct, hardly obfuscated at all.  Its structure can be seen
clearly in the last equation on
    <http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath425/kmath425.htm>
The arithmetic-geometric mean algorithm is nearly direct from its
defining recurrence
      x[0] = a                      y[0] = b
    x[n+1] = (x[n] + y[n])/2      y[n+1] = sqrt(x[n]*y[n])
and sqrt(n) is calculated simply by iterating x <- average(x, n/x).

The only real algorithmic obfuscation is the overzealous use of
the geometric mean function.  (For example, rather than simply
multiply x and y, the code computes the geometric mean of xy/F and
F, then squares it.)  It's a nice idea, but sadly, once the
geometric mean function itself is understood, the confusion
evaporates.

The use of reduce to implement recurrences is clever, though; note
that the list argument's elements are immaterial.

The extensive use of the assignment-to-lambda rewrite (for
example, rather than
    x = compute_x()
    return x**2
the code would have
    return (lambda x: x**2)(compute_x())
) does make the code unreadable, but poses no challenge to the
reverse engineer.

(It prints the first 5000 digits of pi, by the way.  At least, it
seems to.  The first thirty digits are right, at least, and the
algorithm is based on a sound plan.  The only question is whether
the arithmetic error and hardcoded recurrence-iteration limits
affect more than ten digits (which is what the code allows for).
Determining *that* would require someone who actually knows
something about numerical analysis, which I do not.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"[T]rue greatness is when your name is like ampere, watt, and fourier
 -- when it's spelled with a lower case letter."      -- R.W. Hamming




From christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk  Tue Jun  3 09:46:34 2003
From: christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk (Christopher Saunter)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:46:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: ANN: Confluence -> Python for Hardware Verification
References: <833030c0.0306021505.43d5cdf6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbi8rq$glp$1@sirius.dur.ac.uk>

Tom Hawkins (tom1 at launchbird.com) wrote:
: Over the weekend we released Confluence 0.4.6: the first
: version to included the new Python model generator.

Neato.  I have found Python to be very well suited to removing some of the 
pain of HDLs ;-)  - can you say how long the free trial licences of 
Confluence are likely to last for?

ta
cds


: Confluence is a functional programming language for hardware
: and logic design.  Though its syntax is much simpler than
: either Verilog or VHDL, it's semantics enables a level of
: design flexibility beyond the reach of either HDL.

: Til now, Confluence compiled into Verilog and VHDL for
: logic synthesis and cycle-accurate C for high-speed simulation
: and hardware-software co-development.

: With the addition of the Python model generator, hardware
: designers can now use the high-level constructs of our
: favorite language (Python!) to perform functional verification.

: We were very surprised by Python's simulation performance;
: Python simulation of our benchmarks was right on par with
: HDL event-based simulators.  Not bad for a "scripting" language!

: For more info on Confluence:

:   http://www.launchbird.com/

: To see Confluence output, including generated Python models
: visit any of the Confluence projects at:

:   http://www.opencores.org/

: Regards,
: Tom

: --
: Tom Hawkins
: Launchbird Design Systems, Inc.
: 952-200-3790
: tom1 at launchbird.com
: http://www.launchbird.com/



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 17 12:26:22 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:26:22 -0700
Subject: Python as a Language Choice
References: <bckvg4$kdoar$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <2ec1bc1c.0306161417.7f890a66@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bcnfda$l04ps$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

| Hey another Python lover in Phoenix!
| I didn't realize we were such a hotbed!

Larry ...

Since Dave B. has also logged in
we are now up to 3 users in a population of 2.5 million ...

>>> nUsers     = 3.0
>>> population = 2500000
>>>
>>> percentage = ( nUsers / population ) * 100
>>>
>>> print '\n    %2.6f' % percentage

    0.000120
>>>
>>>

I think we should check with J. Napolitano
for a minority grant ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun  6 17:18:29 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 21:18:29 GMT
Subject: Thread State and the Global Interpreter Lock
References: <53u1evk5jmdcgma5e8eupbe3tn45js302i@4ax.com> <mailman.1054932076.22749.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7812evshjqmgm6oa14jibn9t3lc8ht5qu4@4ax.com>

On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:40:25 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>
>    >> Are there plans to make the Python interpreter "fully thread safe" in
>    >> a future version?
>
>In what way is it not "fully thread safe" today?

http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/threads.html




From brian0891 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  2 21:33:22 2003
From: brian0891 at yahoo.com (Brian Olsen)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 18:33:22 -0700
Subject: A Python application server?
References: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ef278339.0306021733.71a9c81c@posting.google.com>

"Duncan Smith" <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bbfmfo$ulf$1 at newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> Hello,
>          I'm trying to put together a (basic) design for an online
> examination system.  The system already exists, but is based on Java
> technologies.  I have (probably prematurely) assured the author that the
> system could have been developed in Python.  This is based in faith rather
> than reason, as I have never had cause to consider such a thing before
> (although I can now envisage that I might need to develop a simple
> application server within the next year or so).
> 
> Having looked at PYRO, Twisted and WebWare I'm pretty confident that most of
> the technology is in place.  But I have been told that to emulate the
> existing system there would have to be a Python equivalent of an 'untrusted
> Java applet'.  (I'm not convinced this is actually necessary for the given
> app., but the existing system does use RMI and Java applets.)

You should take a look at SkunkWeb as well ...
<http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net>.

Since I cannot say what your exact requirements are, all I can say is
what I have found when using this application server. (Also, read the
site, I am not going to reiterate those points. :-) What appealed to
me about SkunkWeb is how simple it is to use and setup. You really do
not need to know a lot about it to get started ... just a couple of
API elements and a bit of Python. The rest you can pick up in time.
Because of this, at least for me, SkunkWeb gets out of the way and
lets me focus on my application. On the performance front, I hear it
this is excellent as well. :-)

I am personally very confident in this application server given the
points I have addressed. But, you know your project, and because of
this, I can only go so far.

I hear there is significant interest in improving the documentation
for SkunkWeb. The documentation is sort of okay now, but I am
expecting the next documentation will be much better.


Brian Olsen



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Wed Jun 18 18:35:08 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 23:35:08 +0100
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com> <bcnova$ma5$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <bcnpei$96r$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <bco0f3$jvp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <yfsznkg9wvx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <slrnbev66f.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <yfsr85s9qoq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <bcoi9d$lh0co$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <yfsznkf8jbv.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <mailman.1055968731.577.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yfsadcf815v.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Cliff Wells <LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net> writes:

> On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 09:02, Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> > Of course it does. My old code will automatically *also* be available under
> > the new license. If you can't see how this might be a problem, think about how
> > happy Trolltech would be for example, if they found that their GPL'ed code
> > effectively became available under, say, a BSD style license.
> > 
> > If you don't want to place trust on the FSF and specify a specific version
> > number than you might still find yourself in trouble, because your GPL'ed code
> > will effectively become license incompatible to everything else (that's also
> > GPLed) over the years, possibly including newer versions of GPL'ed libraries
> > it is using itself.
> 
> I can see the headlines now: "Stallman suddenly [...] claims
> ownership of GNU/Linux(tm) [...]"
               ^^^
already happened :)

> I'll go ahead and file this under "Paranoid Fantasy".
> 
> Regards,


'as



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Jun  6 15:13:26 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:13:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: XMLRPC Authentication
In-Reply-To: <20030606160231.6470A2026F@www.fastmail.fm>
References: <3EE0B8B8.6070602@optonline.com> <20030606160231.6470A2026F@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061210520.21215@ns0.tbye.com>

On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Justin Johnson wrote:

> I have a simple xmlrpc server (using xmlrpclib) that accepts requests
> from clients and runs some administrative commands on a bunch of servers
> I support.  I would like to lock down access to the service so that only
> authorized users can use it, by authenticating with a user name and
> password.
>
> Has anyone done this before?  Is there an already existent authentication
> framework available I can use with xmlrpc?

I use the improvements to xmlrpclib listed here:

http://www.zope.org/Members/Amos/XML-RPC

-Dave




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Jun 11 13:27:13 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:27:13 -0400
Subject: Go buy _Text Processing in Python_
References: <bD3Fa.54383$4_1.14116131@twister.nyc.rr.com>
 <mailman.1055189121.3400.python-list@python.org>
 <GK6Fa.54393$4_1.14154666@twister.nyc.rr.com> <wVQ5+kKkXUXO092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1055197398.11107.python-list@python.org>
 <84fc4588.0306110058.1c019f66@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <xZ25+kKkXUqE092yn@gnosis.cx>                

pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai) wrote previously:
|     Is an online version available for this book ? I remember that
|you had put up sample chapters of the book sometime back on your
|website.

Yep... the entire text remains at:

    http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/

This should show up prominently (probably first hit) in a search for the
title, my name, or something along those lines.  I'll probably update
the site fairly soon to include things like errata, code samples, or
additional commentary--not sure when.  But I'll certainly continue to
keep the full text up there (there may be a few proofread corrections
that aren't in the online version, but it is at least very close to
final).

Of course, as that URL describes, for free you get the "smart ASCII"
version of the book, as I wrote it.  It doesn't include the pretty
layout and fonts (and page-numbered x-refs, index) that the printed
version has.  But then, if you just take the wisdom of the book to
heart, you can easily write the very same automated conversion of the
ASCII to PDF (via LaTeX; but you could use reportlab or something if you
wanted) that I used to compose the final form.  It *is* a book about
text processing, after all.

Yours, David...




From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Tue Jun 10 08:13:46 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 05:13:46 -0700
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <bbsq5k$r9j$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0306100413.1125d1ee@posting.google.com>

Here is a version that will make the "functional programmers" 
happy. It is iterative rather than recursive.

def fac1(x):
    nums=range(x+1)
    return reduce(lambda x, y: x*y, nums[1:]) 

Here is it's equivalent 'one-liner':

def fac1(x): return reduce(lambda x, y: x*y, (range(x+1))[1:])

Here is another version that uses 'filter' and 'reduce', but
more cryptic:

def fac2(x): return reduce(lambda x, y: x*y, filter(lambda x: x>0, range(x+1)))

The lambda forms are preferred by some programmers since they often
appear more "elegant". 

There might be other ways of doing it using functional programming
approaches. It is an interesting study :-)

Anand Pillai

"Duncan Smith" <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bbsq5k$r9j$1 at newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> "Rogue9" <rogue9 at ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:3ee1e6f1 at shknews01...
> > Pardon me but could anyone enlighten me if python2.2 has a math function
> > to call to do factorials of integers?If not then is there a code snippet
> > for doing such a thing available?I tried to write some code for this
> > myself but with little success.
> > Thanks
> > Lol
> 
> I tend to use gmpy for factorials / combinations and such-like.  But you
> could use something like...
> 
> >>> def fac(n):
> ...  if n == 0:
> ...   return 1
> ...  else:
> ...   return n * fac(n-1)
> ...
> >>> fac(20)
>  2432902008176640000L
> >>>
> 
> Duncan



From P.Schnizer at nospam.gsi.de  Thu Jun  5 02:21:01 2003
From: P.Schnizer at nospam.gsi.de (Pierre Schnizer)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 08:21:01 +0200
Subject: wxPython + wxGrid + data shape change.
References: <871xybqhpl.fsf@smtp.gsi.de> <gHdDa.34746$DV.60058@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <87n0gxrqnm.fsf@smtp.gsi.de>

Brian Kelley <bkelley at wi.mit.edu> writes:

> Look at the wiki
> 
> http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/wxGrid
> 
> for a full example look at the MegaGrid example here (needs to be run 
> from the wxpython demo directory)
> 
> http://lists.wxwindows.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm-cgi?11:mss:19287:200305:giedkbfnkloljnnabgla
> 
> You should probably join the wxpython mailing list at wxpython.org

Thank you, that example works for me perfectly.

Regards,
	Pierre



From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Thu Jun 19 11:32:33 2003
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:32:33 +0200
Subject: sum(strings)
In-Reply-To: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr>
References: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr>
Message-ID: <2147483647.1056043953@[192.168.0.102]>


--On Donnerstag, 19. Juni 2003 17:05 Uhr +0200 Steve McAllister 
<nosp at m.needed> wrote:

> Why does sum reject strings?  Is it a matter of efficiency of the
> underlying implementation?
>

Python is not Perl! If you need to build the sum over a sequence of strings 
containing numbers
then you need to convert them to numbers.

-aj

P.S. it's somewhat rude to use an invalid email address for postings




From pcurran at intraspect.com  Mon Jun 23 19:12:23 2003
From: pcurran at intraspect.com (Peter Curran)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 16:12:23 -0700
Subject: Mapi Attachment method WriteToFile throws exception ...
Message-ID: <bf49679f.0306231512.57ad4475@posting.google.com>

Hello - 

I'm getting an exception when I try to save an email attachment
gathered from an Exchange server using Mapi and python com utils.

The COM exception I'm getting back in indecipherable (to me) and I'm
hoping that someone in this group can help me dereference the error so
that I can move on.  My code is included below - it's ugly but it
works well other than where I try to save the attachment - maybe
someone can use it.

Is there a place where I can look up CDO exceptions?  Has anyone else
resolved this problem?

The exception:

  File "<COMObject <unknown>>", line 2, in WriteToFile
  File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py",
line 237, in _ApplyTypes_
    result = apply(self._oleobj_.InvokeTypes, (dispid, LCID, wFlags,
retType, argTypes) + args)
com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (17389, 'Collaboration
Data Objects', ' [Collaboration Data Objects - [E_FAIL(80004005)]]',
None, 0, -2147467259), None)


The code:

"""
file - getvwstofile.py
opens a folder in an exchange inbox, iterates over its contents, saves
attachments on messages to disk
"""
import sys

s = Dispatch("Mapi.Session")
s.Logon()
vw = s.Inbox.Folders[9] #open the folder i want

#now iterate over the messages
for x in range(1, len(vw.Messages) + 1):
    sub = vw.Messages[x].Subject

    bContinue = 0
    z = sub.find("Alert, ")
    #i only want messages with particular subjects
    if z != -1:
        item = vw.Messages[x]
        attaches = item.Attachments
        if attaches:
            for i in range(1, len(attaches) + 1):
                atitem = attaches[i]

                #here's the weirdness - got the attachment, but can't
save it!
                #i've also tried atitem.WriteToFile("c:\vsmsgs\%s" %
(atitem.Name))
                if(atitem):
                    atitem.WriteToFile("c:\\vsmsgs\\%s" %
(atitem.Name))
s.Logoff()
s = None



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jun 20 14:05:43 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 18:05:43 GMT
Subject: A vote against dict(keyword=value) sugar + musing on how to do it
Message-ID: <bcvidn$1kd$0@216.39.172.122>

I'd rather have unambiguous use of it for subclasses of dict.

    def md(**kw):return kw
    d = dict(md(keyword=value))

is not that much work. Unambiguous simple use in subclasses is more important IMO.

<musing>
If there were a way to partition arguments into multiple arg lists so __new__ could optionally
have separable lists for passing to base class constructors vs using for the
subclass __new__ vs letting __init__ maybe do something. E.g., you could separate multiple
lists with ';'

    class D(dict):
        def __new__(cls, *args, **kw; number=123,**subclass_kw):  #XXX# currently illegal
        self = dict.__new__(cls, *args, **kw)                     #XXX# shouldn't be legal unless
        self.color = subclass_kw.get('color','blue')              #     we can partition arg lists, IMO 
        self.number = number
        return self
    ...
    d1 = D(key=value, key2=value2)  #XXX# means default args for number, subclass_kw
    d2 = D(; 456, color='red')      #XXX# empty base dict, other non-default attributes

I.e., D is drop-in compatible for base-class-compatible construction calls, and has to be
different anyway for special subclass parameters, so the ';' seems ok. Or is there a hidden gotcha?

<tangential>
BTW, since a (name,value) tuple sequence also works, maybe it would be nice to be
able to construct such a sequence without quotes on the even-index elements. E.g., with
new keyword assoc:

    assoc(name0, val0, name1, val1, etc, etc) => [('name0',val0), ('name1',val1), ('etc', etc)]

This would provide the unquoted naming in an ordered context as well as the unordered keyword=value
pairings.

Or course, in source you can spell that
    zip('name0 name1 etc'.split(),
        [name0,name1,etc])
but that ugly for longer sequences where it's harder to match the pairs, not to mention
other considerations.
</tangential>
</musing>

Regards,
Bengt Richter
(copy to python-dev at python.org, per advice in c.l.p
"Subject: a clean way to define dictionary" thread.)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Jun  5 15:10:05 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:10:05 +0200
Subject: Using metaclasses to make super more beatiful
In-Reply-To: <just-1DFBB9.20011805062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.1054831871.3625.python-list@python.org> <just-1DFBB9.20011805062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20030605191005.GA4816@nl.linux.org>

Just schreef op donderdag  5 juni om 20:08:10 +0000:
>  Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
> >  97 >>> class autosuper(type):
> >  97 ...  def __init__(cls, name, bases, dict):
> >  97 ...   super(autosuper, cls).__init__(name, bases, dict)
> >  97 ...   setattr(cls, "super", super(cls))
> >  97 ...
> >  98 >>> class A:
> >  98 ...  __metaclass__ = autosuper
> >  98 ...  def f(self): return "A"
> >  98 ...
> > 100 >>> class B(A):
> > 100 ...  def f(self):
> > 100 ...   return self.super.f()
> > 100 ...
> > 101 >>> B()
> > <__main__.B object at 0x403b3c6c>
> > 102 >>> B().f()
> > 'A'

> Tip: create a class C, derived from B, then call f() on an instance of 
> C, and see what happens <wink>.

RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded

Hmm, I thought I understood it but I apparantly don't, since I don't
see why this happens... 

I must read some more documentation, I think.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
104. If a merchant give an agent corn, wool, oil, or any other goods to
transport, the agent shall give a receipt for the amount, and compensate
the merchant therefor. Then he shall obtain a receipt form the merchant
for the money that he gives the merchant.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From grante at visi.com  Mon Jun  2 22:06:08 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 03 Jun 2003 02:06:08 GMT
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.3999999999 ?
References: <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com> <mailman.1053017062.18647.python-list@python.org> <895e4ce2.0306021736.13c657a5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbdo1i8.a95.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <895e4ce2.0306021736.13c657a5 at posting.google.com>, D.W. wrote:

> Good article.  It is correct when it says that this happens in any
> language.  I always thought it was common knowledge among programmers
> that "1" could be stored as 0.99999999999999999...

Wha?   I defy you to find a system where 1 isn't stored exactly.

The more typical problem is with the inability to exactly represent 0.1
(base-10) as a base-2 FP number.

> It is also common knowledge (although I don;t know why or even if it is
> true) that this is a result from Intel's initial chip designs i.e. from the
> way that they store numbers.

Wha?

 1) It's a basic problem with storing FP numbers in one base (in a finite
    amount of memory) and displaying them in another.  It's not solvable,
    even in theory.
    
 2) Intel just followed the IEEE floating point standard. Though Intel ought
     to be thrashed for the awful IA32 architecture in general, Intel didn't
     do anything particulary wrong with floating point.

> Hence the many commercial and some open-source math packages that take care
> of this.
>
> I don't know of any easy way to solve this except to round and convert
> to a string if you are going to store the data.  That way, at least,
> you will be sure of the number of significant digits and therefore the
> reliability.

There are a number of solutions.  Among them:

  1) Store it as a rational number (fraction).
  
  2) Store it in BCD fixed or floating point. Or, in a more general sense,
     store it in any base that can exactly represent base-10 numbers (if
     base-10 is what you care about).  

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Yow! And then we
                                  at               could sit on the hoods of
                               visi.com            cars at stop lights!



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Jun 11 09:49:41 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:49:41 -0400
Subject: PEP-317
References: <1055255402.3ee5eb6ae09ee@mcherm.com> <bc551q$mie$1@main.gmane.org> <mailman.1055297660.22329.python-list@python.org> <1055312155.157424@yasure> <roy-B36181.09340211062003@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <C7qdnQXo-5fornqjXTWcoQ@comcast.com>

"Roy Smith" <roy at panix.com> wrote in message
news:roy-B36181.09340211062003 at reader1.panix.com...
> I have to agree with that.  I'm all for making stuff better, but if
it
> means breaking something that currently works, it's a bad idea.  I'd
> much rather live with a few "historical warts" in the language than
have
> to put up with working code breaking.

Guido agrees and just posted a rejection notice on PyDev.  String
exceptions will go but the current syntax alternatives will not, as
least in the near future.

TJR





From kowald at molgen.mpg.de  Wed Jun  4 04:07:29 2003
From: kowald at molgen.mpg.de (Axel Kowald)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 10:07:29 +0200
Subject: pychecker checks files by executing them ??
References: <3EDCB6BF.1090909@molgen.mpg.de> <u1b7xkwr.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <3EDDA8C1.3050001@molgen.mpg.de>

Hi,

Thomas Heller wrote:

>pychecker imports them, not executes them. Protect the main function or
>what it is in your case by the usual 'if __name__ == "__main__":' idiom
>(which you should do anyway IMO), and you are fine.
>
>Thomas
>

Of course. That's it.

Many thanks.

                               Axel




From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Jun 13 11:09:40 2003
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:09:40 +0100
Subject: OT: swearing (was: RE: OnFileOpent(self, event))
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434107@iron.ima.umn.edu>

Alan Kennedy:

[re swearing in a newsgroup where youngsters may lurk]

Peter Hansen:

> It was probably a high-school kid asking the question!  :-)  the kids
[...]
> have grown up hearing the phrase in every TV show and movie they've ever
> watched?  ;-)

For some years now I've been running boys' clubs here in London. Nothing 
 special, just ordinary schoolboys from ordinary families. Certainly we
 discourage the boys from what you might call casual swearing, partly
because
 it's just ugly, and partly because it leaves you at a disadvantage when
 you *really* want to make a point.

We don't pretend it's the worst thing you can do, but still we encourage
them
 to gain a degree of control over what they say, and when, and in what
 circumstances, and to whom.

For us, it's a question of atmosphere: the atmosphere generated at the Club
by
 its members and leaders. My feeling is that that intangible "atmosphere"
has 
 a lot more influence than people realise. It's hard to explain why the
absence
 of something (in the case of this newsgroup: rudeness, swearing and
impatience) 
 should have an influence on people, young and old, but I believe it does.
And long may it stay that way.

TJG

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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Jun  8 23:09:21 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 23:09:21 -0400
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <PbidnQB3TIQbEX-jXTWcpg@comcast.com> <l18yschlge.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3ptlouoq6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <5XudnbZ19_UAZ36jXTWcpg@comcast.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:m3ptlouoq6.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> Ed Avis <ed at membled.com> writes:
>
> > I've given several examples, a possible grammar rule (use
simple_stmt)
> > and a semantics (the same as a named def).
>
> That would be an incompatible change. Currently
> x = lambda:2
> print x()
> prints "2". Under your change, this would be the same as
> def anon():
>   2
> x = anon
> print x()
> so it would print "None" instead.

Thanks Martin.

This example gets to the expression body 'reason' I/we have
previsously inadequately articulated precisely because it is so
obvious to me/us.  As I said before, 'lambda params: expression'
abbreviates 'def <lambda>(params): return expression' (ignoring that
'<lambda>' is illegal as an explicit name).  I neglected to add the
following, which before seemed almost too obvious to state. The
'reason' that the lambda body (currently) must be an expression is
because that is what the return part of the lambda template requires:
'return expression' is legal while 'return statement' is not (for
non-expression statements).   In other words, the lambda body is a
return expression and the current lambda restriction *is* the current
return restriction.

To expand lambda, one must either expand return, eliminate it, or make
it 'optional'.  So Ed A. is proposing one of

1) alter the syntax and semantics of return statements to allow
'return <simple_statement>'. or

2 change the template by deleting 'return' (as Martin assumed above),
thereby breaking all existing lambda usages that depend on the
expression value being returned (which I am sure is almost all of
them), or

3) adding the return-deleted template as an alternative, with the
compiler choosing the 'correct' version.  As things stand, this is
problematical (ambiguous) because, as Martin noted in another post,
expressions are (a subset of) expression-lists are
expression_statements are (a subset of) simple_statements.  I believe
disambiguation would require new grammar productions for
multiple_expression_list and non_expression_simple_statement and
corresponding revision of expression_list and simple_statement.
(Whether the result would still be LL(1) remains to be tested.)

Choice 3) would complexify the meaning (translation) of lambda to
depend on the nature of the body.  This would, ironically, make
expressions and other simple statements more distinct than they are
now.

Terry J. Reedy





From grante at visi.com  Wed Jun  4 11:05:13 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 15:05:13 GMT
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054726447.7340.python-list@python.org> <bbkuu3$t24$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3ede0aa9$0$1387$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <bbkuu3$t24$1 at panix3.panix.com>, Aahz wrote:
> In article <mailman.1054726447.7340.python-list at python.org>,
> Gerrit Holl  <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
>>
>>Smalltalk isn't practical. 
> 
> That's not quite true.  I know plenty of Smalltalk programmers who would
> disagree, and Squeak is making some inroads.

I've seen ads in the local paper looking for Smalltalk app
developers.  I think it was Cargill or some huge operation like
that.  Word on the street was that they do their internal apps
(which are reportedly huge, and have something to do with
global commodoties stuff) in Smalltalk.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Yow!! "Janitor
                                  at               trapped in sewer uses ESP
                               visi.com            to find decayed burger"!!



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Jun 20 08:50:05 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:50:05 -0500
Subject: Multiple string.replace in one run
In-Reply-To: <bcuqfh$nbvnm$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de> (Thomas
 =?iso-8859-1?q?G=FCttler's?= message of "Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:16:54 +0200")
References: <bcuqfh$nbvnm$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <m2el1oc3r6.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas G?ttler <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> writes:

    Thomas> I could do this with string.replace, but if I want to
    Thomas> replace several variables, I need to do the replace
    Thomas> several times. Since the file could be very long I am
    Thomas> searching for a better solution.

    Thomas> How can I replace several variables at once?

The variable delimiters, eg, '$', were used inconsistently in the
example you posted (sometimes you had them before and after the token,
sometimes just before).  If they are regular enough in your text file
to use a regular expression, you can use the re.sub method with a
function

    import re, sys
    s = """
    <html>
     <head>
      <title>$TITLE$</title>
     </head>
     <body>
      $TITLE$
      $TABLE_overview$
      blu, blu
     </body>
    </html> 
    """

    vars = {'$TITLE$' : 'my title', 	
            '$TABLE_overview$' : 'Look'}	

    def mysub(m):
        return vars[m.group(0)]
        
    # a literal dollar sign, followed by anything that isn't a dollar
    # sign followed by a literal dollar sign
    print re.sub('\$[^$]+\$', mysub, s)  

Note that there are some very good python html templating utilities
out there, like YAPTU, which is just 78 lines python and powerful
enough not only to allow you to use tokens as above, but also to
embed python expression, loops, conditions, etc, in your html.

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52305

I have done a whole web site using YAPTU:
http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/

John Hunter




From nicbar at mail.com  Mon Jun 16 13:13:45 2003
From: nicbar at mail.com (Nic)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 10:13:45 -0700
Subject: Writing tkinter application with hebrew text
Message-ID: <b2b5c45f.0306160913.4579442b@posting.google.com>

Hi there,
I am trying to write a Tkinter application that displays the GUI in
hebrew in Windows.
I am using python 2.2 and the pythonwin ide. In the code, I can see
the hebrew text but the moment the window with a label is displayed, I
get greek characters. Can someone please tell me how to display hebrew
in tkinter?

Thanks
/nic



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jun 18 04:01:43 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:01:43 +0200
Subject: recv
In-Reply-To: <3EF0163E.4010204@uni-koblenz.de>
References: <3EF0163E.4010204@uni-koblenz.de>
Message-ID: <3EF01C67.4070707@ghaering.de>

Oleg Seifert wrote:
> Hallo Leute,
> 
> habe eine kleine Frage: [...]

http://starship.python.net/mailman/listinfo/python-de f?r 
deutschprachige Diskussionen ?ber Python. Auf python-list in Englisch, 
bitte.

-- Gerhard




From edreamleo at charter.net  Sat Jun 21 20:11:57 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:11:57 -0500
Subject: Is o.__dict__ = {}  valid?
References: <vf9ohelotr7a4a@corp.supernews.com> <bd2oik$dae$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <vf9t36eqg0bs79@corp.supernews.com>

> o.__dict__.clear()

I see.  Thanks very much, Aahz.  Python and c.l.p rule!

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From 336699 at emailaccount.com  Thu Jun 12 14:46:52 2003
From: 336699 at emailaccount.com (336699)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 11:46:52 -0700
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <mailman.1055276623.31088.python-list@python.org> <bc5hd3$fhcqf$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de> <84fc4588.0306110117.5fae7c9d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ef100524.0306121046.c0f94b6@posting.google.com>

You write whole scripts into the interactive interpreter to help you
with one-time tasks.



From greg at amstlc.com  Tue Jun  3 13:44:14 2003
From: greg at amstlc.com (Greg Unrein)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 10:44:14 -0700
Subject: Variable Modifications in a class
In-Reply-To: <3EDCDC26.3502624D@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.1054658001.11458.python-list@python.org> <vdpm4a916kci47@corp.supernews.com> <3EDCDC26.3502624D@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <vdpni6pl0e5157@corp.supernews.com>

Thanks Peter, I should have been more precise.

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Greg Unrein wrote:
> 
>>Mehta, Anish wrote:
>>
>>>def func(ab):
>>>  b = ab()
>>>  c = ab()
>>>
>>>  b.a = 5
>>>  b.b = 10
>>>
>>>  c = b
>>
>>This is your problem. c and b are the same object.
> 
> 
> Clearer to say that c and b are *bound* to the same object.
> They are not themselves the objects.  In Python terminology
> they are "names", or variables if you like that term, but
> in traditional terms they are more like pointers to the object
> than they are like the object itself.




From pebenito at ieee.org  Thu Jun 12 14:16:23 2003
From: pebenito at ieee.org (Christopher J. PeBenito)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 13:16:23 -0500
Subject: pty.spawn() problems
Message-ID: <1055441783.1474.36.camel@chris.pebenito.net>

I've got a script that uses pty.spawn().  However the subprocess cant
seem to get the size of the terminal (stty size returns '0 0'), so the
output is corrupted.  How can I fix this?

Chris




From aleax at aleax.it  Mon Jun 16 03:00:29 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 07:00:29 GMT
Subject: Large File Parsing
References: <vp1qevc3kaq554ktpf4907drfu68ju62s8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <hWdHa.95517$pR3.2049184@news1.tin.it>

<posted & mailed>

Robert S Shaffer wrote:

> I have upto a 3 million record file to parse, remove duplicates and
> sort by size then numeric value. Is this the best way to do this in
> python. The key is the first column and the ,xx needs removed.
> 
> 1234567,12
> 123456789012,12

No, the approach you outline later cannot possibly be "the best way"
(in terms of speed) because you're passing a comparison function to
the sort method, and that will undoubtedly slow things down a lot.
For speed, use the Decorate-Sort-Undecorate (DSU) idiom that is well
covered in the Sorting and Searching chapter of the Python Cookbook
and more briefly in Python in a Nutshell.  In your case, assuming you
do have enough physical memory to support this:


def run():

    lines = open('input.dat')
    dictfile = {}
    for eachline in lines:
        field0 = eachline.split(',',1)[0]
        key = len(field0), field0
        dictfile[key] = 1
    lines.close()

    allkeys = dictfile.keys()
    del dictfile
    allkeys.sort()

    oufile = open('output.dat', 'w')
    for junk, field0 in allkeys:
        oufile.write(field0)
        oufile.write('\n')
    oufile.close()


Several variants are possible (e.g. you could use the loop on
allkeys just to prepare a list of strings, and then call
oufile,writelines once to emit it) but -- always assuming
sufficient physical memory -- I would not expect drastically
different performance among them.  Still, intuition often
plays tricks about performance, so you may want to code the
various possibility and measure actual speed in your case.


Alex




From robhall at ii.net  Mon Jun  2 13:03:59 2003
From: robhall at ii.net (Rob Hall)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 01:03:59 +0800
Subject: Python IO performance?
References: <m33civ37b2.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <mailman.1054370388.6981.python-list@python.org> <m3k7c61ktg.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <3edb7b8e$0$15844@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <3edb8337$0$15856@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

Weird.

Turns out I already had Perl 5.8 installed but a different build from
ActiveState (Build 804 - the newer build is 806).

Strange thing is, the newer build is SLOWER than Python by about 1000
set/sec!

Needless to say, I moved back to build 804!

Rob





From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Jun 17 19:43:51 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 19:43:51 -0400
Subject: popen2.Popen3 on Windows
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <m1tpevcasprfdirat1h3mg1go5atq4vsst@4ax.com> <3eecfae8$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <v1qrev8vokng7f6bhi6dudphbpkuvjoe80@4ax.com> <20030616160614.D0AB3343BE@www.fastmail.fm> <mailman.1055793089.28151.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uwufkb77s.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

"d.w. harks" <dave at psys.org> writes:

> With the win32 extensions, use the win32pipe module. It provides 'safe'
> win32 versions of popen, et al.

Note that for the popen* calls, their implementation in the win32pipe
module was incorporated into the Python core (as the os.popen*
methods) back in Python 2.0, so using the os.popen* calls is just as
safe as using win32pipe.

-- David



From jason_nospam at oes.co.th  Sun Jun  1 02:06:11 2003
From: jason_nospam at oes.co.th (Jason Smith)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 13:06:11 +0700
Subject: Twisted
References: <bb8pev$nqh$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <rYVBa.444$DL6.18334@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <bbc555$2hl$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>

Graeme Matthew wrote:
> Maybe a break in Tahiti without a computer will do you some good.

Tahiti is not in Europe!

-- 
Jason Smith
Open Enterprise Systems
Bangkok, Thailand



From tim at lesher.ws  Wed Jun  4 16:09:00 2003
From: tim at lesher.ws (Tim Lesher)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 13:09:00 -0700
Subject: Python vs emacs (again...)
Message-ID: <b6562547.0306041209.3fbf770b@posting.google.com>

I downloaded the newest python-mode.el from SourceForge, and found (to
my delight) that Bernhard Herzog's paragraph-filling code has been
added.  Big win, IMHO, and a big improvement over the native filling.

However, there are still some sharp edges to how it works.  Consider:

0: def fn(a):
1:     """This function has
2:     a docstring with one short line and one really, really, really,
spam, eggs, shiitake mushrooms, spam long line."""
3:     #Not to mention a comment
4:     #that needs filling
5:     return a / 0

Now the behavior of fill-paragraph is dependent on the position of
point when you call it.  If it's anywhere on line zero, you get the
well-known "crunching":

def fn(a): """This function has a docstring with one short line and
    one really, really, really, spam, eggs, shiitake mushrooms, spam
    long line."""  #Not to mention a comment #that needs filling
    return a / 0

(Note that even this is better than the crunching you get with the
default fill-paragraph--at least it doesn't fill the return line in
with the comments, so it remains legal python code).

If point is at line one before the triple-quote, it also crunches.  If
it's between the first and third quote, nothing happens, and if it's
after the third quote, it does the right thing.

If point is anywhere on the commented lines (3 or 4), it does the
right thing.

If point is on the last line, we're back to crunching.

To summarize:  this is much, much better than the default, but it's
still not quote optimal.  Is this as good as can be hoped for with the
facilities emacs provides?



From mike at bindkey.com  Thu Jun  5 14:13:56 2003
From: mike at bindkey.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:13:56 -0700
Subject: rcs manager
Message-ID: <bbo14e$eef$1@main.gmane.org>

"Olivier Ravard" <olivier.ravard at novagrid.com> wrote in
comp.python.announce...
> I'd like to aanouce the first release of RCSmanager
> which is a front-end to RCS unix commands (ci, co, rcs, rlog).

Oops. It doesn't run on pure python installation 2.2.2:

!Error! NovaWidget package require Tcl/Tk BWidget and Tktable packages.

The message is clear, however I'd like to see it beforehand in README along
with basic instructions how (where) to put them.
Like that:
'''
Download latest
TkTable from http://sourceforge.net/projects/tktable (2.7 is OK)
BWidget from http://sourceforge.net/projects/tcllib (1.6 is OK)

Install by unpacking them in subdirectories of PYTHONHOME/tcl/tcl8.3
and on Windows place Tktable.dll in PYTHONHOME/dlls
'''

Also need to mention that it doesn't work on not unix because of use
os.gelogin() call.

Regards,
Mike







From mas at semafor.ch  Thu Jun 26 10:14:58 2003
From: mas at semafor.ch (Sorin Marti)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:14:58 +0200
Subject: Reading a binary file
References: <mailman.1056614502.25759.python-list@python.org> <3EFAF999.2F77CACF@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3EFAFFE2.6000305@semafor.ch>


Peter Hansen wrote:
> Sorin Marti wrote:
> 
>>I am quite new to python and very new to this list.
>>
>>I've got following problem. I have a binary file which contains
>>information I should read. I can open the file with
> 
> [snip]
> 
> It would really be best if you could describe in more detail
> what you are trying to do with this data.  Bytes are bytes,
> and things like hex and binary are just different _representations_
> of bytes, so whether you want binary, hex, decimal, or something
> else depends entirely on the use to which you will put the info.
> 

Hi Peter,

Ok I'll try to give more details. I have a Siemens SPS. With an SPS you 
can controll machines such as pumps or motors or anything else. To 
controll you have to set Variables. If you want to see which state these 
variables have you can get a file via ftp where these values are stored. 
This is what I have done. Now I have a file (called cpu1db2.dat) and 
this file has a length of 16 bytes.

Byte Number/Length   Type       Hex-Value
----------------------------------------------------------------
Byte              1: Boolean:   01    (which is true, 00 would be false)
Byte              2: Byte:      11   (This data type is called byte)
Byte              3: Char:      50    (Which should be a "P")
Byte            4,5: Word       00 00
Byte            6,7: Integer    22 04
Byte      8,9,10,11: DoubleWord D2 00 00 BB
Byte 12,13,14,15,16: Real       BB 42 C8 00 00


So I have written a python class which makes a connection to the 
ftp-server (on the SPS) and gets the file.
Then there is a function where you can call a value with a startbyte and 
an endbyte. You also have to specify the type. That means you can call
getValue('REAL',12,16) and you should get back 100 because if you have 
the binary value of 'BB 42 C8 00 00' is 01000010110010000000000000000000 
, first digit is the Sign (which is + or - ), next 8 digits are the 
exponent, in this case 10000101 = 133dec. Now you take away 127 from 133 
then you get six, thats the exponent. The rest 
(110010000000000000000000) has a hex value of C80000 this is 13107200 
decimal. Now you have to multiply 13107200 with 2^6 and 2^-23 and you 
get (tataaaaaa!): 100!

The different data types need different calculations, that's why I asked 
a few things about changing the representation because I only can do 
some things in binary mode or hex mode.

Cheers
    Sorin Marti





From achrist at easystreet.com  Thu Jun 26 21:26:58 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:26:58 -0700
Subject: Python executables?
References: <mailman.1056619905.13226.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EFB9D62.F9B66125@easystreet.com>

Catalin wrote:
> 
> And the programs also run much slower and become extremely big 
> compared to a normal C++ program for example. 
>

This is a funny thing.  IBM has done some studies that showed that
users do prefer faster programs, but only 25% faster.  If a program
runs more than 25% faster than what they are used to, users don't
like it.  I find that despite the interpreter and whatnot, my Python
code runs about 25% faster than what users are used to when loading
and running the humongous applications of the humongous vendors. 
Thus, Python is just perfect, if it was any faster, it would be
annoying.  

Since you are obviously having some interest in commercial pursuits,
consider that a similar heuristic probably works now wrt program size,
another one of your concerns, as well.  With big disks and CD-ROMs,
etc, program size is just about irrelevant as a practical matter
to everyone except the shareware developer who has to pay for 100
downloads per sale, but it is more important psychologically. (Even
the shareware guy doesn't really have much of a complaint, actually,
anymore. You can buy bandwidth for about $2/GB.  My programs, built
with the McMillan installer including lots and lots of screens and
libraries and all kinds of run-on code, only come out 3.5 MB when
compressed.  That's way under $0.01 per download at $2/GB.) 

Let's say that there are two boxes on the shelf at the software store.
They both have the same price, $100.  They both have the same feature
set. They both look ok.  One says, "Disk space required, 25 MB."  The
other one says, "Disk space required, 25 KB."  Which one would you buy?
You've got to give them something to make them think that they are
getting something.  It's a status thing, like silicone. How else can
the individual code writer keep up with the humongous applications
from the humongous software companies? Just like George Bush, jr, said
that the $1.6 trillion 2001 tax cut was 'just right', I think that the
3.5 MB program is 'just right'. 

Do whatever is 'just right' for you.


Al



From tomas at fancy.org  Wed Jun 25 18:45:17 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:45:17 -0700
Subject: Check your Wikis
References: <6a351$3ef6f993$516049d2$22156@nf1.news-service.com> <23891c90.0306250537.565529a8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3a9kfvc6f90q0a10k3anki4vughfvq40jt@4ax.com>

Paul Boddie wrote:

> I know that it's "against the Wiki way" or <insert other devotion 
> statement to arbitrary principles here>, but is it really that 
> intrusive to insist that people register to edit Wikis containing 
> useful and important information? Although it has been quite 
> dormant, the Webware Wiki managed to secure contributions from 
> motivated people whilst insisting on registration, for example.

I recently registered and added stuff to the wxPython Wiki,
because the existing information was incorrect on my platform.  I
almost didn't bother because of the fact that I had to register,
but by that point I had everything together that I needed to post
so it seemed silly not to register.

However, you can be sure that I won't be adding any more
information to it.  I just don't think that registration is
necessary to have a good repository of information.  Not to
mention that TheRules on that site seem pretty...  un-wiki...

so it goes- how many more like me are there out there?  How many
more than that won't post anything because they have to register?
Certainly the Wiki is not stronger for it.

-tom!



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jun 17 00:19:29 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 04:19:29 GMT
Subject: One Problem -- how to implement in three programming paradigms  in Python
References: <3EED97E5.1080100@cs.uni-dortmund.de> <mailman.1055793127.28882.python-list@python.org> <3EEE2898.9080000@cs.uni-dortmund.de> <bclqck$c2d$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bcm4sh$5al$0@216.39.172.122>

On 17 Jun 2003 01:20:20 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:29:12 +0200, "Ludger.Humbert" <Ludger.Humbert at cs.uni-dortmund.de> wrote:
>
>>Steven Taschuk schrieb:
>>> Quoth Ludger.Humbert:
>>>   [...]
>>>>  http://in.hagen.de/~humbert/vortraege/F.Grundkonzepte_html/22.html
>>> 
>>> I'd be happy to throw in my two cents, but I'm afraid I don't know
>>> German.  Is there an English translation?  (Or could some helpful
>>> bilingual Pythonista provide one?)
>>
>>I'll give it a try (but my english is'nt that good):
>>the above mentioned page should explain the question in itself ..
>>how is it possible to find a way through the maze (labyrinth in german)
>>the picture/image is there to show one possible concrete example.
>>
>>Problem:
>>how to find a way through a given maze.
>>
>Here is one barely-tested go at it:
>
[... snip old version ...]
This is more fun, see result ;-)

====< maze.py >======================================================
#! /usr/bin/python
# Assuming a rectangular board with squares identified by row,col coordinates
# with 1,1 as the upper left square, and 1,2 as the square to the right
# of the first and 2,1 as the square below the first, then we can
# describe the maze by a short string that says how it is possible
# to move from each square that participates in the paths.
# The possibilities are up,down,left,right,and additionally start and finish
# for entry and exit squares. Thus square (1,1):'dr' says that we can
# go down or right from square 1,1. That happens to be the format for
# a python dict literal entry, so we can easily describe the maze with
# a dict.

# the maze at http://in.hagen.de/~humbert/vortraege/F.Grundkonzepte_html/22.html
maze = {
  (1,1):'rd', (1,2):'lr', (1,3):'lr', (1,4):'lr', (1,5):'ld',               (1,7):'d',
  (2,1):'ud',             (2,3):'d',              (2,5):'urd', (2,6):'l',   (2,7):'ud',  (2,8):'d',
  (3,1):'ud',             (3,3):'ur', (3,4):'lr', (3,5):'uld',              (3,7):'udr', (3,8):'ul',
  (4,1):'udr',(4,2):'lr', (4,3):'ld', (4,4):'d',  (4,5):'ur',  (4,6):'ldr', (4,7):'lu',
  (5,1):'ud',             (5,3):'ud', (5,4):'ud',              (5,6):'ud',
  (6,1):'u',              (6,3):'u',  (6,4):'ur', (6,5):'lr',  (6,6):'lu'
}

class Solution(Exception): pass

class Mazer(object):
    # row,col deltas for the moves
    moves = {'u':(-1,0),'d':(1,0),'r':(0,1),'l':(0,-1)}
    start = (2,8)
    finish = (6,1)

    def __init__(self, maze):
        self.maze = maze
        
    def search(self, here, path='', beenthere={}):
        if here in beenthere: return
        if here == beenthere['finish']: raise Solution(path)
        beenthere[here]=1
        for direction in maze[here]:
            ud,lr = self.moves[direction]
            hrow,hcol = here
            self.search((hrow+ud,hcol+lr),path+direction, beenthere)
    
    def solpic(self, maze, start, finish, path):
        # make walled squares first
        # get maze dimensions (assume top/left justified)
        ncols = max([c for r,c in maze.keys()])
        nrows = max([r for r,c in maze.keys()])
        rowtopbot = '+---'*ncols+'+'
        rowcenter = '|   '*ncols+'|'
        rows = [list(rowtopbot)]
        for r in xrange(nrows):
            rows.append(list(rowcenter))
            rows.append(list(rowtopbot))
        for rc,dirs in maze.items():
            ixr = 2*rc[0]-1
            ixc = 4*rc[1]-2
            for dr in dirs:
                if dr ==   'u': rows[ixr-1][ixc-1:ixc+2] = [' ', ' ', ' ']
                elif dr == 'd': rows[ixr+1][ixc-1:ixc+2] = [' ', ' ', ' ']
                elif dr == 'l': rows[ixr][ixc-2] = ' '
                elif dr == 'r': rows[ixr][ixc+2] = ' '
        # do path
        def mark(r, c, m, d='c'):
            ixr=2*r-1; ixc=4*c-2
            rows[ixr][ixc]=m
            if d=='c': return
            elif d=='u': rows[ixr+1][ixc]='^'
            elif d=='d': rows[ixr-1][ixc]='v'
            elif d=='l': rows[ixr][ixc+1:ixc+4] = [' ', '<', '-']
            elif d=='r': rows[ixr][ixc-3:ixc] = ['-', '>', ' ']
        r,c = start
        mark(r, c, 'S')
        for d in path:
            dr,dc = self.moves[d]
            r,c = r+dr,c+dc
            mark(r,c,'*', d)
        mark(r,c,'F')
        # return board pic
        return '\n'.join([''.join(r) for r in rows])

    def solve(self, start, finish):
        try:
            self.search(start, '', {'start':start, 'finish':finish})
        except Solution, s:
            return (
                'The solution path from start at %s to finish at %s is\nS%sF'% (start, finish, s),
                self.solpic(maze, start, finish, s.args[0])
            )
        else:
            return 'No path found.','(no pic)' 

if __name__=='__main__':
    import sys
    args = map(int,sys.argv[1:]) # Srow Scol Frow Fcol
    start = tuple(args[:2])
    finish = tuple(args[2:4])
    if len(start)!=2: start = (2,8)   # default
    if len(finish)!=2: finish = (6,1) # default
    mazer = Mazer(maze)
    try:
        msg, pic = mazer.solve(start, finish)
        print msg
        print pic
    except KeyError, e:
        print e, 'not reachable.'

    if len(args)<4:
        print """
You can specify start and end positions by typing
[python] maze.py startRow startCol finishRow finishCol
"""
=====================================================================
Result or running plain (indented one space to avoid quote char coloring)

 [21:18] C:\pywk\maze>maze.py
 The solution path from start at (2, 8) to finish at (6, 1) is
 SdldlluuulllldddddF
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 | * <-* <-* <-* <-* |   |   |   |
 + v +---+---+---+ ^ +---+   +---+
 | * |   |   |   | *     |   | S |
 + v +---+   +---+ ^ +---+   + v +
 | * |   |         * |   | * <-* |
 + v +---+---+---+ ^ +---+ v +---+
 | *         |   | * <-* <-* |   |
 + v +---+   +   +---+   +---+---+
 | * |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
 + v +---+   +   +---+   +---+---+
 | F |   |   |           |   |   |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+

 You can specify start and end positions by typing
 [python] maze.py startRow startCol finishRow finishCol

So we try it in reverse ;-)

 [21:18] C:\pywk\maze>maze.py 6 1 2 8
 The solution path from start at (6, 1) to finish at (2, 8) is
 SuuuuurrrrdddrruruF
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 | *-> *-> *-> *-> * |   |   |   |
 + ^ +---+---+---+ v +---+   +---+
 | * |   |   |   | *     |   | F |
 + ^ +---+   +---+ v +---+   + ^ +
 | * |   |         * |   | *-> * |
 + ^ +---+---+---+ v +---+ ^ +---+
 | *         |   | *-> *-> * |   |
 + ^ +---+   +   +---+   +---+---+
 | * |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
 + ^ +---+   +   +---+   +---+---+
 | S |   |   |           |   |   |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+

or

 [21:20] C:\pywk\maze>maze.py 6 3 4 4
 The solution path from start at (6, 3) to finish at (4, 4) is
 SuulluuurrrrdddrddlluuF
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 | *-> *-> *-> *-> * |   |   |   |
 + ^ +---+---+---+ v +---+   +---+
 | * |   |   |   | *     |   |   |
 + ^ +---+   +---+ v +---+   +   +
 | * |   |         * |   |       |
 + ^ +---+---+---+ v +---+   +---+
 | * <-* <-* | F | *-> *     |   |
 +   +---+ ^ + ^ +---+ v +---+---+
 |   |   | * | * |   | * |   |   |
 +   +---+ ^ + ^ +---+ v +---+---+
 |   |   | S | * <-* <-* |   |   |
 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From christianzlong at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 25 16:28:31 2003
From: christianzlong at yahoo.com (Christian Long)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 13:28:31 -0700
Subject: Piping data into Python on the command line - Windows 2000
Message-ID: <8847f370.0306251228.2406f86c@posting.google.com>

Hi

I'm trying to pipe data into a python program on Windows 2000, on the
command line.

Like this:
dir | myProgram.py


Here's what I tried:

== readFromStdin.py ==
#!/usr/bin.env python
import sys
print sys.sdtin.readlines()


When I run it on Linux and Windows, results differ
ls -l | ./readFromStdin.py    - Works on Linux

dir | readFromStdin.py        - Doesn't work on win2000
                             IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor

The ultimate goal is to write python scripts that I can use from
Komodo's (Python IDE) Run Command feature.  I'm running Komodo on
Windows 2000.

I want to highlight some text in Komodo, and run my command, pasting
the output of my program back in to the file I was editing in Komodo.

Komodo makes this easy with built-in commands like sort.  You just
select the "Pass Selection As Input" and "Insert Output" options,
highlight some text, type "sort" in the Run Command box, and voila,
Komodo pipes your highlighted text to sort, and pastes the sorted text
back into your editor window.

I want to write a Python program that can behave in the same way as
sort does, for use with  Komodo on Windows 2000.

Thanks!

Christian Long



From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Mon Jun 16 04:55:22 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:55:22 +1000
Subject: DNS/MX Lookup?
In-Reply-To: <ayeHa.12016$sm5.12268@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
References: <ayeHa.12016$sm5.12268@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <20030616085522.GF25277@frobozz>

On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 07:43:02AM +0000, Chris White wrote:
> Well, I tried the python-dns module that exists out there, but it's not
> working so for.
> 
> It would be nice if there was a socket function to pull up info about mx
> servers for a domain name.  If anyone knows a working with (yes, here it
> comes) windoze operating system that simply uses the default nameserver or
> lets me set it for that matter (the later would be more prefered, as it
> would make it more cross platform compatible IMHO). 
> 
> Also, if anyone knows some good easy to understand (snicker) RFC's for DNS
> Querying (or some page that breaks it down) that would be great as well.

It's probably overkill, but you can do it with Twisted:

---- mxquery.py ----
#!/usr/bin/env python
"""Command-line util for resolving MXs.

Usage:
    mxquery.py example.com              # Uses DNS servers in /etc/resolv.conf
or
    mxquery.py example.com 1.2.3.4      # Uses DNS server 1.2.3.4

Adapted from doc/examples/dns-service.py in the Twisted distribution.
"""

from twisted.names import client
from twisted.internet import reactor
import sys

def printAnswer((answers, auth, add)):
    if not len(answers):
        print 'No answers'
    else:
        print '\n'.join([str(x.payload) for x in answers])
    reactor.stop()

def printFailure(arg):
    print "error: could not resolve:", arg
    reactor.stop()

if len(sys.argv) not in (2,3):
    sys.stderr.write('%s: usage:\n' % sys.argv[0] +
                     '  %s domain [dns server]\n' % sys.argv[0])
    sys.exit(1)
   
domain = sys.argv[1]
if len(sys.argv) == 2:
    resolver = client.Resolver('/etc/resolv.conf')
else:
    resolver = client.Resolver(servers=[(sys.argv[2],53)])

d = resolver.lookupMailExchange('%s' % (domain,), [3])
d.addCallbacks(printAnswer, printFailure)

reactor.run()
----

-Andrew.





From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Jun  6 11:08:28 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:08:28 -0400
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org>
 <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com>
 <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <s5K4+ks/KrFG089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <l1r867k8p8.fsf at budvar.future-i.net>,
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com> wrote:
>"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:
>Why then not allow the same things inside lambda as inside def?  At
>least as far as keeping the function body on a single line.
>
>>Extending lambda to embed even simple statements within expressions
>>is problematical:
>
>    lambda x: assert(x > 0)

There's a wrinkle in this one:

>    lambda x: print 'value:', x

    j = map (lambda x: print 'value:', x, some_list)

   What is the print statement supposed to print?  And since
print doesn't return anything (not even None), what happens
to j?

        Regards.        Mel.



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 24 10:19:06 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:19:06 +0100
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056387220.30017.python-list@python.org> <7ECdndDM99Lkq2qjXTWcqw@speakeasy.net> <23891c90.0306240052.78684551@posting.google.com> <vu-cnZQgo5841mWjXTWcrg@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <3EF85DDA.4F4B57C6@hotmail.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" wrote:

> When you think about it: how useful is it that the Python DOM
> interface uses the same method names as the Java or Perl interface?
> What's gained by this?

Code interoperability. This is very important, given the "glue" like
nature of many uses of python, for scripting COM, Java, .NET, etc. So
I can do things like this (off the top of my head, not tested)

def loadDOM(filename):
    try:
        from win32com.client import Dispatch
        msxml = Dispatch('Msxml2.DOMDocument.4.0')
        domtree = msxml.load(filename)
    except ImportError:
        import xml.dom.minidom
        domtree = xml.dom.minidom.parse(filename)
    return domtree

dom = loadDOM('myfile.xml')
for anchor in dom.getElementsByTagName('a'):
    print "Link: %s" % anchor.getAttribute('href')

> I initially thought there might be some gain from being able to use
> material written for other languages to learn the API, but don't
> know how most users learn the DOM; do they read the DOM Recommendation,
> look at tutorials, read the implementation source, or just copy
> existing code?

I read the DOM Recommendation :-)& But I did all of the others as well,
at different stages, and I think most people end up doing more than one
as well.

> In this context, I find the existence of jDOM, a Java-centric
> DOM-like API, to support this view.  There's even a jDOM JSR,
> the Java world's equivalent of a PEP.

It's a pity that the JDOM isn't very well designed for extensibility,
as opposed to DOM4J, which is so extensible that it has a steep
learning curve. (I actually ended up writing my own minimal read-only
XOM for a Java app, because it was quicker than trying to get JDOM or
DOM4J to do what I needed. I must find the time to open source that
one of these days, with its jaxen adapter).

Which I think illustrates the simple point that many interfaces are
needed in different scenarios: it's "horses for courses". Sometimes
one needs interoperability, as per the 1st example above. Sometimes one
only needs simplicity, so something pythonic like elementree or pyxie
is suitable. Other times, requirements are somewhere in the middle of
those two.

I generally find that interoperability is almost always worth the
pain, if the code is going to be used for any period of time. When use
cases change and, for example, processing volumes increase, or I need
to (schema)validate documents, then interoperable code greatly simplifies
the problem, because I can switch seamlessly to a high-performance DOM,
or one that does validation, or supports 
xpath/relaxng/xpointer/events//whatever.

regards,

--
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From albalmer at att.net  Wed Jun  4 14:40:03 2003
From: albalmer at att.net (Alan Balmer)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:40:03 -0700
Subject: [OT] Re: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <ff82ae1b.0306040559.26b314f7@posting.google.com> <HAqDa.19329$JW6.12707@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <24fsdv0g6qk3m0tg47re0smfek4qauascj@4ax.com>

On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 18:08:39 GMT, "C Wood"
<cdotrdotwood at verizondotnet.removeme> wrote:

>"goose" <ruse at webmail.co.za> wrote in message
>news:ff82ae1b.0306040559.26b314f7 at posting.google.com...
>:
>: woodworking ???????
>
>    Please see the post listed on alt.troll  That's what's happening.
>
>
>HIT REC.WOODWORKING HARD!!!!!!
>
>Background info: 
<snipped>
>
You haven't explained how it ended up on comp.lang.c, and please
don't. Just don't do it any more.

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerconsultingthis at att.net



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jun 19 11:26:20 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:26:20 -0600
Subject: thinkings on shallow copy
In-Reply-To: <3EF1849E.6060103@nospam.com>; from kendear@nospam.com on Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 09:38:39AM +0000
References: <3EF1849E.6060103@nospam.com>
Message-ID: <20030619092620.D427@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Kendear:
> i was just looking at docstrings and saw the one
> for copy.__doc__ regarding copy.copy():
> 
>  > - A shallow copy constructs a new compound object and then (to the
>  >   extent possible) inserts *the same objects* into in that the
>  >   original contains.
> 
> I wonder if it is actually to insert *the same object references*
> into the new compound object...

Sort of.  Better: "inserts references to the same objects".

(Saying that the references are the same suggests, erroneously,
that changing one reference would change the other:
    a = [1, 2, 3]
    b = copy.copy(a)
    a[0] = 'q'
    print b[0]   # does not print 'q'
)

The notion of references is so pervasive in Python that these docs
shouldn't need to emphasize it, imo.

  [...]
> so shallow copy constructs a new compound object
> and copies the references in the source compound
> object to the new compound object, is that correct?

Correct.

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "[W]e must be very careful when we give advice
staschuk at telusplanet.net    to younger people: sometimes they follow it!"
                             -- "The Humble Programmer", Edsger Dijkstra




From shochatd at yahoo.com  Sun Jun  1 20:08:28 2003
From: shochatd at yahoo.com (David Shochat)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 00:08:28 GMT
Subject: repr on a string
References: <pan.2003.06.01.20.16.40.747684@yahoo.com> <yfs1xydzcgx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.02.00.08.28.118677@yahoo.com>

On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 22:58:54 +0100, Alexander Schmolck wrote:

> David Shochat <shochatd at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>> The Library Reference says this about built-in repr():
>>  Return a string containing a printable representation of an object.
>> 
>> While studying Programming Python, 2nd Ed. Example 2-18, p. 84, I was
> 
> Haven't got the book, so I can't comment on the specific example, but see
> below.
> 
Thanks for your reply (also to Gerrit Holl). I can see I need 
to learn more about eval().

Anyway, here is a fragment of the book example I was 
referring to, with a bit more context:

for dir in sys.path:
    if string.find(os.path.abspath(dir), 'PyTools') != -1:
        print 'removing', repr(dir)
        sys.path.remove(dir)

In the 3d line, why does he not just say:

  print 'removing', dir

Why the call to repr() here?




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun 11 14:33:44 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:33:44 +0200
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <slrnbee8cs.rev.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net>
References: <mailman.1055217438.10041.python-list@python.org> <dd5454fb.0306101346.201331fc@posting.google.com> <3EE65444.907E6D87@alcyone.com> <mailman.1055283799.2307.python-list@python.org> <3EE6646E.47555429@alcyone.com> <mailman.1055286920.18421.python-list@python.org> <3EE67C20.941FCA51@alcyone.com> <mailman.1055319116.28014.python-list@python.org> <slrnbee8cs.rev.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net>
Message-ID: <20030611183344.GA5575@nl.linux.org>

Andrew Walkingshaw wrote:
> > I think "as" is a perfectly good keyword, and no other suggestion I've
> > seen is better.  It reads well and it represents the underlying
> > implementation fairly well.  And "as" is already (kind of) a keyword, so
> > all the better.  It was an early suggestion, and a good one -- I don't
> > know why people are working it over so much.
> 
> Because we haven't anything better to do? :)
> 
> Another option which comes to mind, assuming that these function
> decorators work the way I think they do, is "applying":
> 
> def f(x,y,z) applying (decorator1, decorator2):

How about "def f() alteritaccordingto (decorator1, decorator2):"

No, I am +1 on def foo() as bar, +0 on def bar(foo()) and -1 on
all other syntaxes I have seen.

When I read 'def foo() as bar', I read 'def foo() as a bar', thus
'def foo() as a bar_object' or 'def foo() as an instance of bar'.

Maybe Bar should be a class, so that using multiple inheritance,
foo will be isinstance(foo, bar). This will also easy checking
'am-i-a-classmethod' easier.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
173. If this woman bear sons to her second husband, in the place to
which she went, and then die, her earlier and later sons shall divide the
dowry between them.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From bh at intevation.de  Mon Jun  9 10:46:59 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 16:46:59 +0200
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
References: <mailman.1055139135.30925.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6qptlnux3w.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:

[...]
> Specification
> =============
> 
> The syntax of ``raise_stmt`` [3]_ is to be changed from ::
> 
>     raise_stmt ::= "raise" [expression ["," expression ["," expression]]]
> 
> to ::
> 
>     raise_stmt ::= "raise" [expression ["," expression]]
> 
[...]
> Warnings
> ''''''''
[...]
> The third warning is issued when a ``raise`` statement with three
> expressions is compiled.  (Not, note, when it is executed; this is
> important because the ``SyntaxError`` which this warning presages will
> occur at compile-time.)  The message for this warning is::
> 
>     raising with three arguments will be impossible in the future
> 
> These warnings are to appear in Python 2.4, and disappear in Python
> 3.0, when the conditions which cause them are simply errors.

How do I write code that raises and exception with an explicit traceback
object that works both with Python 2.4 and at least 2.3 (preferably 2.2
and 2.1 as well) and that does not issue warnings?

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Jun  5 15:01:11 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:01:11 -0400
Subject: Twisted Panglossia
References: <u65nk5x8p.fsf@fitlinxx.com>, <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
 <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
 <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
 <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com>
 <mailman.1054749788.8638.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.1054830612.3231.python-list@python.org> <w/43+kKkXUlb092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <3N53+kKkXoEY092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

I'm doing a series of articles on Twisted for IBM developerWorks (two
already submitted, two more yet to write).  So obviously, I like the
framework, or at least think it has a lot of promise.

But I've noticed something both on the Twisted list, and when Twisted
has come up here on c.l.py recently.  The Twisted developers have a
greater excess of enthusiasm for their package than do the developers of
other large frameworks (even more than my Pollyannaishness in my
ironically confessed advocacy of my own little tools).

Can't criticize the documentation because it's a bunch of pages already
(even if not necessarily well-organized).  Can't complain something's
unstable because you're not supposed to do it that way anyway.
Everything's backward compatible (so just ignore when it isn't).
Anyone who hasn't tried today's CVS version is maligning Twisted.  And
like that.

Now as with all such critics, I will quickly proclaim that the Twisted
developers are excellent programmers, and the range of capabilities in
there is fairly amazing.  But there *are* these old stories about the
pitfalls of hubris that keep coming to mind... not that I'm advocating
eye-gauging or anything, just moderation :-).

Yours, David...

--
---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------





From solarisboy007 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 19 04:01:53 2003
From: solarisboy007 at yahoo.com (Solaris Boy)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 01:01:53 -0700
Subject: Installing Python on Solaris 9
Message-ID: <2c1dda69.0306190001.53837879@posting.google.com>

Hi..

I am trying to get python working on my solaris 9 box.

It complanined about the libraries

ld.so.1: ./python: fatal: libstdc++.so.5: open failed: No such file or
directory *** Error code 137 make: Fatal error: Command failed for target
`sharedmods'

I set the environment variables and compiled the stuff. 

Python was installed in /usr/local/Python-2.2.3/python. 

Now when I typed in python I got this back

Could not find platform independent libraries <prefix>
Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix>
Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to <prefix>[:<exec_prefix>]
'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jun 19 2003, 01:13:28) 
[GCC 3.2.3] on TvoPT5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 

Is this a bug/what? Please suggest...

Also How do I quit out of python

Thanks..



From ee01b092 at ee.iitm.ernet.in  Tue Jun  3 05:25:29 2003
From: ee01b092 at ee.iitm.ernet.in (Vinoo vasudevan)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:55:29 +0530
Subject: tuple to list to tuple conversion
Message-ID: <20030603091833.M95008@ee.iitm.ernet.in>

Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong here?

I have a method that needs to call other methods like this:
def mymethod(self, methodname, params):
    apply(methodname, params)

params is already a tuple. I needed to add a few more parameters inside 'mymethod' so I 
did this:
params = tuple((list(params)).append(something))
when params is an empty tuple to begin with, the stmt sets it to None instead of 
(something, )
However the following works regardless of whether params is empty:
x = list(params)
x.append(something)
params = tuple(x)

Thanks in advance,

Vinoo

--
Open WebMail (http://www.ee.iitm.ernet.in)





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun 10 22:20:32 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:20:32 -0600
Subject: PEP-317
In-Reply-To: <bc551q$mie$1@main.gmane.org>; from fredrik@pythonware.com on Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 07:40:38PM +0200
References: <1055255402.3ee5eb6ae09ee@mcherm.com> <bc551q$mie$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20030610202032.C2505@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Fredrik Lundh:
  [...]
> (5) Python programmers don't have anything important to do with
> their lifes, so they're happy just changing perfectly working code
> over and over and over again for every new release, just to satisfy
> the whims of some random comp.lang.python poster.
  [etc.]

With sincere respect, the sarcasm is a bit excessive, and the
implications insulting.  I do not formally propose backwards
incompatibilities on a whim; neither am I indifferent to the needs
of the existing user base.

Now, to the point.  Consider this schedule: this year we revise
PEP 8 to recommend explicit instantiation; in 2005, we formally
deprecate implicit instantiation in the documentation; in 2007 we
add warnings; in 2009 they become errors.  Unacceptable?  How
about if those two-year gaps are replaced with four-year gaps?
Eight-year gaps?

At some point the expectation must be that virtually all code has
been rewritten anyway, and so a minor change to exception raising
syntax does not increase costs at all.  Somewhere between that
point and the schedule presently proposed in the PEP (which I view
as a lower bound, the minimum conceivable timescale for the change
proposed), there lies a point at which the migration pain equals
the benefit (unless one thinks the benefit is nonpositive).  Any
schedule longer than that should be fine.

So - 3.0 too early?  Ok.  Tell us what you think a reasonable
schedule might look like.  Constructive feedback, that would be.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                 o- @
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      7O   )
                                                               "  (




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  9 13:06:10 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:06:10 -0600
Subject: cut off \n
In-Reply-To: <3ee4af26$0$45179$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>; from ajw126@NOSPAMyork.ac.uk on Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 05:00:37PM +0100
References: <3EE4ACCD.70000@gmx.net> <3ee4af26$0$45179$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>
Message-ID: <20030609110610.A924@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Andrew Wilkinson:
  [...]
> def remove_last_newline(line):
>     if line[-1] == "\n":
>         return line[:-1]
>     else:
>         return line

Note that this will raise an exception if line == ''.  Skip's
slightly different
    if line[-1:] == '\n':
will work in that case, as would using .endswith (which I
personally consider clearer in such cases).

  [...]
> Unfortunatly without a single line if-expression in Python I can't think of
> a single line solution to this problem.

Since you ask:
    line = line[:line.endswith('\n') and -1 or len(line)]   # Ick.
or
    line = line[:len(line)-line.endswith('\n')]             # *shudder*

But really, if it's so frequent an annoyance that you want a
one-liner, just write a function.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                7\ 7'Z {&~         .
staschuk at telusplanet.net                        Y r          --/hG-
                                            (__/ )_             1^1`




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Jun  1 17:14:10 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 23:14:10 +0200
Subject: Replace for Goto
In-Reply-To: <3ED55C2D.9030903@ghaering.de>
References: <aa2e3602.0305281646.32cf1129@posting.google.com> <3ED55C2D.9030903@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <20030601211410.GC4727@nl.linux.org>

Gerhard H?ring schreef op donderdag 29 mei om 03:04:37 +0000:
> Use a never-ending while loop, then use an "if" and a "break". Like this:
> 
> while 1:
>     # do stuff
>     answer = raw_input("Want to play again? (y/n)").upper()
>     if answer == 'N':
>         break

Or, even better:

while raw_input("Want to play again? (y/n)").upper()[0] != 'N':
    # do stuff

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
100. ... interest for the money, as much as he has received, he shall
give a note therefor, and on the day, when they settle, pay to the
merchant. 
        -- Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From evan at 4-am.com  Mon Jun 23 16:37:37 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:37:37 -0500
Subject: python&zope
In-Reply-To: <3EF6AAD9.6050903@uni-koblenz.de>
References: <3EF6AAD9.6050903@uni-koblenz.de>
Message-ID: <3EF76511.8000307@4-am.com>

Oleg Seifert wrote:
> Error Type: RuntimeError
> Error Value: Script (Python) anfrage has errors.

Look at your Script in the ZMI, and it will tell you!  Note that Scripts 
cannot use the "from x import *" syntax.

In general, you'll have better luck getting answers to this sort of 
question from the Zope mailing list.

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am






From theller at python.net  Fri Jun 13 13:00:44 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 19:00:44 +0200
Subject: Type hierarchy
References: <mailman.1055514878.28221.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1xxxlxoj.fsf@python.net>

Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> writes:

> Hi,
> 
> currently, almost all types directly inherit from object. The only
> exceptions are string and unicode, which inherit from basestring.
> But wouldn't a type hierarchy be very useful for other types as
> well? For example, checking whether something is a number, currently
> needs isinstance(o, int) or isinstance(o, long), or float...

You can do it with isinstance(o, (long, float, int, complex))
(although most of the time you better avoid typechecks).

Thomas



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Jun  9 10:25:31 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 10:25:31 -0400
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org>
 <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com>
 <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com>
 <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
 <m3he71hk52.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <l1u1b1h908.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
 <m3brx9xepd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <l1k7bwhnv5.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
 <m33cikw4a0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bjJ5+ks/K32X089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <m33cikw4a0.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>,
martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) wrote:
>Ed Avis <ed at membled.com> writes:
>> So there is no reason to reject out of hand allowing one-line
>> statements in lambda just because such constructs may require
>> parenthesizing when used inside larger statements like 'print'.
>
>No, it is rejected because nobody has made a specification, yet, as to
>how exactly it should work. Only if a precise, detailed, complete, and
>implementable specification is made, it can be studied for undesired
>effects, and possibly be rejected.
>
>Actually, it doesn't need to be implementable - then we could reject
>it for not being implementable.

   Some statements, used in place of expressions, look
pretty strange:

    j = [global x for x in some_list]

    lambda x: del x

These are maybe in the territory of "expressions don't mess
with symbol binding".

        Regards.        Mel.



From tom1 at launchbird.com  Tue Jun  3 14:15:13 2003
From: tom1 at launchbird.com (Tom Hawkins)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 11:15:13 -0700
Subject: ANN: Confluence -> Python for Hardware Verification
References: <833030c0.0306021505.43d5cdf6@posting.google.com> <bbi8rq$glp$1@sirius.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <833030c0.0306031015.5dcebf7a@posting.google.com>

christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk (Christopher Saunter) wrote in message news:<bbi8rq$glp$1 at sirius.dur.ac.uk>...
> Tom Hawkins (tom1 at launchbird.com) wrote:
> : Over the weekend we released Confluence 0.4.6: the first
> : version to included the new Python model generator.
> 
> Neato.  I have found Python to be very well suited to removing some of the 
> pain of HDLs ;-)  - can you say how long the free trial licences of 
> Confluence are likely to last for?
> 
> ta
> cds

Confluence actually originated from a Python based HDL called
ParaCore (http://www.dilloneng.com/paracore.html).

The first Confluence seat is free, indefinite, and
enables the full compiler -- no size or performance restrictions.
Our revenue comes from the medium to larger design firms.

We just got an article in EEdesign.  Check it out:

http://www.eedesign.com/columns/max_bytes/OEG20030529S0070

Regards,
Tom

--
Tom Hawkins
Launchbird Design Systems, Inc.
952-200-3790
tom1 at launchbird.com
http://www.launchbird.com/


> 
> 
> : Confluence is a functional programming language for hardware
> : and logic design.  Though its syntax is much simpler than
> : either Verilog or VHDL, it's semantics enables a level of
> : design flexibility beyond the reach of either HDL.
>  
> : Til now, Confluence compiled into Verilog and VHDL for
> : logic synthesis and cycle-accurate C for high-speed simulation
> : and hardware-software co-development.
>  
> : With the addition of the Python model generator, hardware
> : designers can now use the high-level constructs of our
> : favorite language (Python!) to perform functional verification.
>  
> : We were very surprised by Python's simulation performance;
> : Python simulation of our benchmarks was right on par with
> : HDL event-based simulators.  Not bad for a "scripting" language!
>  
> : For more info on Confluence:
>  
> :   http://www.launchbird.com/
>  
> : To see Confluence output, including generated Python models
> : visit any of the Confluence projects at:
>  
> :   http://www.opencores.org/
>  
> : Regards,
> : Tom
>  
> : --
> : Tom Hawkins
> : Launchbird Design Systems, Inc.
> : 952-200-3790
> : tom1 at launchbird.com
> : http://www.launchbird.com/



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jun 26 08:15:55 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:15:55 GMT
Subject: Advice for developing in python with Microsoft Office?
References: <c6f263dc.0306250519.12526baa@posting.google.com> <vfj9knhvp35e07@corp.supernews.com> <871xxhvimo.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <%tBKa.323233$3n5.88396@news2.central.cox.net>

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:871xxhvimo.fsf at pobox.com...
> claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
> [...]
> > Attempts to program Office frustrate many people.  'Fact,
> > it's hard to falsify the proposition that some of the
> > documentation has been managed in order to maximize
> > frustration.
>
> Microsoft seems to enjoy 'death by documentation'.  It's not that the
> huge quantity of it is a bad thing per se, or that the individual bits
> of documentation are bad, so much as the fact that the various bits
> often don't seem to know of each others' existence.  Perhaps that's
> achieved by the same people whose job it is to rename everything every
> few months?
>

Indeed, one of my own pet peeves about Microsoft documentation is the way
help systems will restate the blindingly obvious without providing any
actual help. Suppose there's a "Varm Fnoogle" menu item in my application. I
spend three minutes finding out where the feature is documented only to
discover that all it says is "Use this option when you want to fnoogle your
varm" - nothing about what a varm might be (and no links), and nothing about
fnoogling (and no links). Three months later the same feature will be
labelled "Dworm Fnargle".

Cameron, with an unusual lack of cynicism, appears to me to be quite wrong
about the reason for the state of Microsoft documentation. They write it
that way to maximize training and publishing opportunities.

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Jun 26 10:30:34 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 26 Jun 2003 10:30:34 -0400
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
In-Reply-To: <3EFAF526.50603@mxm.dk>
References: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com> <3EF9EF52.8070600@yahoo.com>
	<3EFA17BC.9060600@mxm.dk> <oq7k79f0io.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>
	<3EFAF526.50603@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <oqk7b8ews5.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Max M]

> I remember reading a post where I saw meassurements that showed it to be
> twice as fast.  I was too lazy too google it.  But here goes.  [...]

[Adrien Di Mascio]

> I've a made a quite basic test on these methods : [...]

Thanks to both!  Have a good day!

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From dougfort at dougfort.net  Tue Jun 10 16:39:45 2003
From: dougfort at dougfort.net (Doug Fort)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:39:45 GMT
Subject: go buy 'text processing in python'
References: <FtlFa.8831$Fu.3075064@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.10.20.39.46.833303@dougfort.net>

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:57:57 +0000, Max Khesin wrote:

> Perhaps due to David's humility he did not post this in its own thread. Many
> of us enjoyed his excellent (and free) column 'charming python', which his
> just-released book is based on. I think it's time for us to pay up :)
> (I just ordered mine from Amazon)
> 
Amazon said there were only 4 copies left when I ordered mine. I hope Dr.
Mertz makes something off of this.



From tim.hochberg at ieee.org  Sat Jun  7 10:19:56 2003
From: tim.hochberg at ieee.org (Tim Hochberg)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 07:19:56 -0700
Subject: Numeric don't compare arrays correctly
In-Reply-To: <3EE14291.4DB0F8F6@alcyone.com>
References: <3EDFBACD.2090802@wanadoo.es> <yfsbrxbufxn.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <yfs7k7zue8f.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <mailman.1054933814.2728.python-list@python.org> <yfs7k7ylsqz.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <scbEa.40791$Pc5.8313@fed1read01> <3EE14291.4DB0F8F6@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <kwmEa.42241$Pc5.26124@fed1read01>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Tim Hochberg wrote:
> 
> 
>>An ill considered thought: I wonder if it would be feasible to change
>>the definition of "a < b < c" from:
>>   (a < b) and (b < c)
>>to:
>>   (a < b) & (b < c)
> 
> 
> How would this help?

Bitwise & is overridable while 'and' is not. As a result, in Numeric 
where this thread started, "a < b < c" produces results that are 
technically right, but practically useless. From the original post by 
Maurix:

    >>> a=array([1.1,2.2,3.3,4.4,5.5])
    >>> print 2.<a<4.
    [1 1 1 0 0] # 1.1 is not between 2 and 4 !!
    >>> print (a>2.)and(a<4.)
    [1 1 1 0 0]
    >>> print (a>2.)*(a<4.)
    [0 1 1 0 0] # this is good!

(2.>a) & (a<4.), as proposed above, also works out correctly. In Numeric 
the proposed scheme would work nicely out of the box. I'm not familiar 
with what other (ab)users of rich comparisons are doing, but this would 
at least make it feasible to put together a consistent set of rich 
comparison operations.


> 
>>Since "x and y" and "x & y" are equivalent when x, y are in (0,1), ...
> 
> 
> There's an obvious difference, which is that `and' does short circuiting
> whereas & does not.

Good point. Another beautiful idea ruined by an ugly fact. That makes 
the backwards compatibility issues considerably worse. And, 
unfortunately, non short circuiting behaviour is probably required to 
get the chained comparisons in Numeric and similar abusers of rich 
comparisons to work correctly.

back to logical_and(a < b, b < c).


-tim





From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Mon Jun 16 11:57:28 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:57:28 +0100
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <m1tpevcasprfdirat1h3mg1go5atq4vsst@4ax.com> <3eecfae8$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <v1qrev8vokng7f6bhi6dudphbpkuvjoe80@4ax.com>

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:02:01 +0200, Irmen de Jong
<irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote:


>offtopic: what language *do* you use for those?

Typically something like a rather small subset of Ada, or at least
something with a strong B&D flavour and formally defined semantics.
And safety-related code is the most boring code you would ever read
(in this field, excitement is to be avoided!)



From bh at intevation.de  Mon Jun  9 16:33:13 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 22:33:13 +0200
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
References: <mailman.1055139135.30925.python-list@python.org> <6qptlnux3w.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055177065.4464.python-list@python.org> <6qfzmjumq7.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055185158.5625.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6qbrx7uh2u.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:

> Quoth Bernhard Herzog:
> > Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:
[...]
> > > Part of my problem here is that I'm not
> > > familiar enough with real-life uses of the traceback argument.  Do
> > > you use it?
> > 
> > Yes, occasionally.
> 
> I'd like to hear more about this -- in what circumstances, and to
> what end?

One is in the XFig import filter in Sketch (paraphrasing a bit):


        try:
            # ...
            while line:
                tokens = tokenize(line, 1)
                # dispatch on tokens[0]
                # ...
                line = self.readline()
        except SketchLoadError, value:
	    raise SketchLoadError('%d:%s' % (self.lineno, str(value))), None,\
                  sys.exc_traceback

So, basically it's there to put some more information into the error
message. Not all places where SketchLoadError is raised have access to
the line number so it can't easily be done in other ways.

I'm not sure why it uses exc_traceback instead of sys.exc_info()[2] but
the xfig filter is quite old and the code in question might predate
Python 1.5 where exc_info() was introduced. Anyway, Sketch doesn't use
threads so it shouldn't be a problem unless somebody now goes and starts
deprecating sys.exc_traceback ;-)

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From just at xs4all.nl  Thu Jun  5 08:09:42 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:09:42 +0200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054662726.12651.python-list@python.org> <38ec68a6.0306031913.3600bc16@posting.google.com> <3EDD6610.3CABE86A@engcorp.com> <38ec68a6.0306041832.4b0817e5@posting.google.com> <3EDF2FEE.7D031B68@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <just-DC1E8A.14094205062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <3EDF2FEE.7D031B68 at engcorp.com>,
 Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Asun Friere wrote:
> > 
> > ? a = 556; b = 556
> > ? a is b
> > 1
> 
> Hmm?  That one surprises me.  I wonder how the compiler is
> treating that line...  I would have though ; basically had
> the same effect as a line seperator.

It's only different in interactive mode: when they're on separate lines 
they get compiled separately into separate code objects, each having 
their own set of constants. When they're compiled together there's just 
one code object and the compiler will generate only one constant.

Just



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jun 14 11:42:22 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 16:42:22 +0100
Subject: How to pause within a thread
References: <bcbuvp$d6j$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE> <3EE9B293.D80031C5@engcorp.com> <bccjla$4ok$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Message-ID: <8765n8fyxt.fsf@pobox.com>

Rolf Wester <wester at ilt.fhg.de> writes:

> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Rolf Wester wrote:
> >
> >>I have a thread that is polling a server for completion of a routine.
[...]
> > But this is probably not the best approach.  Rather than
> > "poll" the server, presumably using a non-blocking recv() call (?)
> > you should investigate the select.select() function.  Either
[...]
> I think I didn't describe correctly what I'm doing. I have a server
> written in Python which starts another process (a C++ program). This
[...]

A process is not a thread.


John



From no at spam.invalid  Mon Jun 23 16:09:06 2003
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:09:06 -0700
Subject: Tkinter problem
References: <kueJa.1349$os2.18711@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <bd7mp3$2gkm$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <kueJa.1349$os2.18711 at news2.e.nsc.no>,
 "Eirik" <hannibalkannibal at yahoo.no> wrote:

>Look at this code(I am not sure whether it is correct or not, I am in
>Windoze and have no possibility to check):
>--CODE BEGIN--
>
>from Tkinter import *
>
>root = Tk()
>...
>root.b1 = Button(root, text = "Button", command = root.t.set("Test-Text"))

Others have already pointed out that the function gets called when you 
define root.b1, not when the button is pressed. You can define a new 
function that takes no arguments to handle the problem -- you can even 
define the function "on the fly" (which is what I usually do), as in:

def tset():
  root.t.set("Text-Text")
root.b1 = Button(root, text = "Button", command = tset)

If you find yourself doing this a lot you may want to look up "currying" 
functions. There is an example class for this in my Tkinter summary 
<http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/TkinterSummary.html>.

....

However...my main reason for writing was to ask why you are storing your 
widgets as attributes of root? 

You have some really good reason, but my first guess is you are simply 
trying to make your Python Tkinter code look more like Tk code. If so, 
please don't. Root is an object that already has lots of useful 
attributes (functions and variables that it needs to do its job). You 
can get a full list via dir(root). By adding more attributes that aren't 
necessary you risk collision and also confusion of others who read your 
code.

In Tk widgets are named according to their hierarchy, and you end up 
with names that are something like .frame1.button2.

But in Tkinter you don't do it that way. You specify the hierarchy by 
specifying a "master" (the first argument to Button, Frame, etc.) when 
you create a widget . Tkinter takes care of the rest (automatically 
generating a suitable Tk name).

When using Tkinter you'll usually want to use a variable to hold your 
widget:

b1 = Button(root-or-other-master, ...)

(or if you are writing a class and want to keep a reference to b1 for 
users of that class then self.b1 = ...)

-- Russell



From bzimmer at ziclix.com  Mon Jun  9 22:28:26 2003
From: bzimmer at ziclix.com (brian zimmer)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 19:28:26 -0700
Subject: can u help me for sloving dbexts using database connectivity in jython scripting
References: <1812cd68.0306090401.4a8c7570@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d59a6abc.0306091828.15175d54@posting.google.com>

> Hii,
> i ma trying connectivity mysql with zxjdbc in jython scripting. but i
> faced problem that i mentioned below:
> >>>from dbexts import dbexts
> >>>d = dbexts
> >>>d.isql("select * from emp")
> Traceback (innermost last):
> File "<console>", line1, in ?
> TypeError :unbound method isql() must be called with instance as first
> argument
> 

You need to create an instance of dbexts.  Try:

>>> d = dbexts()
>>> d.isql("select * from emp")

thanks,

brian



From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 11 23:47:55 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 03:47:55 GMT
Subject: PEP318: property as decoration
References: <bc568h$5t4$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <DIuFa.5725$Gm4.690616@news20.bellglobal.com> <bc7ibf$fjv$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <20030611184025.GB5575@nl.linux.org> <mailman.1055362671.6994.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc8t5b$chh$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

"Gerrit Holl" <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message
> Hmm, that doesn't seem to work. __doc__ is not in my local namespace yet.

Here`s a brittle hack to resolve that issue:

import inspect

def this():
        """returns the calling function"""
        # pull function name from outer scope (one)
        fname = inspect.currentframe(1).f_code.co_name
        try:
                # pull function itself from outer scope of one (two)
                func = inspect.currentframe(2).f_locals[fname]
        except NameError:
                # func is a method, pull function from class dict
                # This is BRITTLE! Cannot guarantee this methods'
                # class is at outer scope of two (three). This requires
                # a better lookup sequence.
                cdict = inspect.currentframe(3).f_locals
                return cdict.get(fname, None)
        return func


Then, inside your method you can do this:

def foo():
        "foo property's doc string"
        def fget(self):
                return self._foo
        def fset(self, value):
                self._foo = value
        def fdel(self):
                del self._foo
        return fget, fset, fdel, this().__doc__

As I say, "this" is a very brittle hack, so don't try this at home (pardon
the pun)







From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Jun 12 16:17:05 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 15:17:05 -0500
Subject: PEP 318: Is chaining decorators even possible?
In-Reply-To: <20030612080349419-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
References: <20030612080349419-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <1055449025.690.2533.camel@lothlorien>

On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 07:03, Kevin Smith wrote:
> It has been brought up a couple of times in other threads that simply 
> chaining descriptors won't work (i.e. classmethod(synchronized(foo))).  
> Another possibility was to use subclassing (i.e. type('newtype',(
> classmethod,synchronized,{})(foo)).  When I wrote PEP 318, I wasn't sure 
> myself if it was possible to chain them, but I figured someone would 
> point it out if it wasn't.  So my question is, is it even possible to 
> chain decorators in a general way?  If not, then PEP 318 might have to 
> be changed to only allow one decorator.  This would definitely reduce 
> the amount of discussion since the proposed syntax would be reduced to 
> 'def foo(self) as <callable>:'.

The chaining seems to only be a problem with decorators that create
descriptors.  I'd imagine synchronized being implemented something like:

def synchronized(lock):
    def wrapper(func):
        return SynchronizedFunction(func, lock).call
    return wrapper

class SynchronizedFunction(object):

    def __init__(self, func, lock):
        self.func = func
        self.lock = lock

    def call(self, *args, **kw):
        self.lock.acquire()
        value = self.func(*args, **kw)
        self.lock.release()
        return value

A contract system would probably work similarly.  It doesn't produce a
descriptor, it just wraps the function call.  Of course, "func" can't be
a descriptor, or it would mess things up.  Unfortunately this doesn't
really work quite right, as it returns a method object, and not a
function object, and classes have a special case of turning functions
into methods.

So I guess a proper implementation of Synchronized would either have to
use nested scopes (to bind func and lock), or create a descriptor.

Maybe:

def synchronized(lock):
    def wrapper(func):
        def wrappedfunc(*args, **kw):
            lock.acquire()
            value = func(*args, **kw)
            lock.release()
            return value
        return wrappedfunc
    return wrapper

But objects would certainly be more comfortable, especially for
something more complex like contracts.

  Ian






From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jun  4 05:33:47 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:33:47 +0200
Subject: Does anyone use SuSE 8.2
In-Reply-To: <aqhDa.1020$Fm2.118@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>
References: <aqhDa.1020$Fm2.118@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3EDDBCFB.2030301@ghaering.de>

John Fabiani wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm having lots of trouble getting pyPgSQL and PythonCard running.  My
> python is 2.2.2 and appears to be in the same location as RH
> "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/" but I can't get anything to run.  I was
> succesful with wxPython but that's all.  When I attempt to "from libpg
> import *". I get file "libpg" not found.  But it is in
> site-packages/pyPgSQL - so I don't know what's happening.  
> -- So I'm in need of help.

I'll be able to help (though I don't use SuSE myself any longer).

If you want it to get running fast, compile pyPgSQL yourself and don't 
try to use a Redhat RPM on a SuSE machine. That's really not difficult, 
just be sure you have the required packages installed and follow the 
instructions in the README file in the source distribution.

Apart from that, I believe you don't have the version of the PostgreSQL 
client libraries installed that the pyPgSQL RPM references.

Please post the output of:

ldd /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/pyPgSQL/libpq/libpqmodule.so

and

ls -al /usr/lib/libpq.so*

-- Gerhard

PS: I'd recommend to use a subject next time that gives people an idea 
what the message is about. Normally I'd overlook posts like this, while 
I will read all with pyPgSQL in the subject.





From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Fri Jun 13 06:25:33 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:25:33 GMT
Subject: pythonCOM with Flash
In-Reply-To: <TVfGa.76$zx6.3873@news.optus.net.au>
References: <RvPFa.37$zx6.1430@news.optus.net.au> <GV%Fa.2949$GU5.41737@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <TVfGa.76$zx6.3873@news.optus.net.au>
Message-ID: <xEhGa.3736$GU5.50995@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Bradley Schatz wrote:

> Makpy finds two typelibraries for Shockwave Flash 1.0 If I look at them
> using the MS COM Object viewer, I see that one of them points to an .ocx and
> the other points to a .oca

I'm not familiar with .oca files.

I'm uninterested in flash :)  I use Mozilla as my day-to-day browser for 
a number of reasons, and am happy that I actually need to go out of my 
way to enable flash support there.

But I did have a fiddle, and it all seems to work OK

> I have modified the webbrowser.py example to use flash - the source is
> below.
> 
> When I use the IID that points to the ocx (begins with D27) I get the
> following trace from within pythonwin:
...

> com_error: (-2147319779, 'Library not registered.', None, None)

I just removed that line :)

> #FlashModule =
> gencache.EnsureModule("{D27CDB6B-AE6D-11CF-96B8-444553540000}", 0, 1, 0)
> FlashModule =
> gencache.EnsureModule("{E69E19FB-B24A-4AA2-9E1A-3C6E59F587FC}", 0, 1, 0)

Deleting that second line, and uncommenting that assignment works for 
me.  I get an AtributeError for Navigate, but examinining the generated 
.py file shows no such method.  I see state event change calls.  You are 
going to need to be willing to experiment :)

Mark.




From jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Jun 23 17:46:59 2003
From: jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk (Jeremy Yallop)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 21:46:59 GMT
Subject: CGI and Unicode
References: <545cb8c2.0306231007.4a3c07a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bd7sgj$q6r8p$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de>

Jim Hefferon wrote:
> I have been struggling with getting Unicode out of Python's cgi 
> module. I have a small script illustrating the problem at the bottom 
> but first I need to explain.

[...]

> But when I ask what is the type of the variable that I get from 
> the cgi module, it comes out as StringType, not UnicodeType.  My 
> browser is Galeon on the latest Debian and I've also tested it 
> with IE on NT.
> 
> What am I missing?  

The problem, I think, is the lack of consistency amongst browsers in
indicating the encoding of the submitted data.  For instance, when
responding to the form in your script, Opera includes a "Content-type"
header containing:

   application/x-www-form-urlencoded;charset=utf-8

whereas the "Content-type" header sent by Mozilla (and I suspect most
other browsers[0]) doesn't indicate the charset:

   application/x-www-form-urlencoded

If all browsers always included did this, then the cgi module could
reliably detect the data encoding and store the parameters as Unicode
strings when appropriate.  As it stands, there's usually insufficient
information for cgi to detect when Unicode is being sent or what the
encoding is.  If /you/ can determine by other means that the submitted
data is UTF-8 encoded (which is probably the case if the form was part
of a UTF-8 encoded document) there's nothing stopping you from
decoding it yourself (using codecs.utf_8_decode or unicode(string,
'utf-8'), for example).

Oh, one last thing (which you probably know, but just in case...): you
can access the submitted headers through the environment variables of
the CGI process.

   import os
   for key, value in os.environ.items():
      print '<p>%30s : %s</p>' % (key, value)

Hope this helps,

               Jeremy.

[0] A quick skim of rfc 1867 seems to indicate that the charset clause
isn't standard.



From mwh at python.net  Thu Jun 12 13:48:35 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:48:35 GMT
Subject: PEP 318: Is chaining decorators even possible?
References: <20030612080349419-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <7h3llw7kx6y.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Kevin Smith <Kevin.Smith at sas.com> writes:

> It has been brought up a couple of times in other threads that simply 
> chaining descriptors won't work (i.e. classmethod(synchronized(foo))).  

Why not?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Of the four project development variables - scope, cost, time and
  quality - quality isn't really a free variable.  The only possible
  values are "excellent" and "insanely excellent", depending on
  whether lives are at stake.              -- Kent Beck, XP Explained



From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Mon Jun 16 13:53:12 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:53:12 -0600
Subject: Cmd output and status in one call on Windows
Message-ID: <20030616175312.272572D091@www.fastmail.fm>

Hi,

I need a way to run an external command, grab its output (stdout,stderr)
and get a return status for the command.  It seems like popen2.Popen3
(Note the upper case "P") is the way to do this, but it only works on
unix.  Is there a way to get this info on Windows?

Thanks.
-Justin




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jun 26 08:53:49 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 06:53:49 -0600
Subject: Test-Driven Dev. (Kent Beck) Python Chapter Question
In-Reply-To: <6e07b825.0306252246.16fa828@posting.google.com>; from yaipa@yahoo.com on Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 11:46:52PM -0700
References: <6e07b825.0306252246.16fa828@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030626065349.B329@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth yaipa h.:
> In Chapter 20. Cleaning Up After
  [...]
> Anyone had similar problems with this chapter or am I reading over
> something here?

You might have better luck asking this question on the TDD mailing
list:
    <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment>

-- 
Steven Taschuk                           staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I'm always serious, never more so than when I'm being flippant."
                            -- _Look to Windward_, Iain M. Banks




From tertiusc at netscape.net  Wed Jun 18 17:25:31 2003
From: tertiusc at netscape.net (Tertius)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:25:31 +0200
Subject: sqlite select max() on integer field returns quoted value
Message-ID: <3EF0D8CB.6010203@netscape.net>

Hi,

I do a "select max(id) from table"
id is a integer primary key not null and fetchone() returns tuple with 
quoted value ('223',)
should it not rather be (223,) ?

Many thanks
Tertius




From 2002 at weholt.org  Wed Jun  4 09:19:52 2003
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt ( PRIVAT ))
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:19:52 +0200
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
References: <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no>

Just a warning; when you mention "threaded" and "webserver" in this group in
the same sentence, you'll probably get several replies telling you that
threaded webservers scale badly and that you should look at ( you guessed
it ) Twisted or Medusa.

Twisted are slowly getting a proper documentation together and that would
make it a killer package for web/internet-based projects. It still seem a
bit bloated and some of the code is labeled unstable, yet the the package
seem to be marketed as complete and stable. I keep seeing things like "It
should really be re-written/re-factored " etc. in the twisted-mailing-list.
But all in all, as I said before, I think Twisted might be the new killer
app if the development-team keeps the development progress they seem to have
at the moment.

eh .... what was my point excactly ??? Hm ....



"Graeme Matthew" <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:%RlDa.239$R44.10990 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> I personally looked at twisted and found it just too much of a learning
> curve, 4suite has is great as u dont have to build templating (thru code)
> into your system you simply pub run xml through the xslt processor and
print
> html back to the browser, in terms of networkign cant say much as im stuck
> at the moment trying to write threaded cgi server !
>
> cheers
>
> "deckerben" <bdeck at lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e at news.freenet.de...
> > Greetings!
> >
> > Which web server software would be more appropriate for a DOS (long
> filename
> > enabled) environment? I have seen 4suite and Twisted. Twisted seems to
> offer
> > a lot of other networking tools (like telnet and news services) but some
> of
> > the admin parts require GTK :-( 4Suite runs already except for the
> manager,
> > which requires threads. 4Suite also seems to have more comprehensive XML
> > tools, which I like.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> >
>
>





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sun Jun  1 16:18:22 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 16:18:22 -0400
Subject: Defensive programming
References: <hIqp1WAG0c2+Ew1+@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <mailman.1054463105.27128.python-list@python.org>
 <7xptlxq2yz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <t6l2+kKkXs2L092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <O+l2+kKkXwQe092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote previously:
|I think there's something to be said for using collision resistant
|hashes whenever any kind of hash is needed.  Why fall back on the OS
|to get you out of trouble, when you can avoid getting in trouble in
|the first place?  I haven't read the papers yet though.

Well... for Python, I'd rather have a hash with excellent typical case
performance than one than a typically slower one with more collision
resistance.  If my normal, non-DoS programs run a bit faster, that's
something I experience every day... if those (very) few of them that
have conceivable DoS exposure do badly under attack... well, that's bad,
but probably best addressed otherwise.

Yours, Lulu...

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.




From dave at boost-consulting.com  Sun Jun  8 11:49:25 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 11:49:25 -0400
Subject: C or C++ in Python
References: <mailman.1054912574.11090.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ullwcsh6i.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Erhan Ekici <erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr> writes:

> What is problem ? and to use C or C++ in python, what should I do except Weave ?

Weave is a cool tool.  If it works for you, go for it!  Lots of people
have had success with Boost.Python for numerics:

http://www.boost.org/libs/python

Regards,
-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Tue Jun 24 10:40:28 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:40:28 +0100
Subject: tkinter urgent help request
In-Reply-To: <3033499.1056382165@dbforums.com>
References: <3033499.1056382165@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <3EF862DC.7070706@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

idriss wrote:

>i want to scroll one frame's or canvas 's whole content (it will contain
>other subframes and subframes will contain bitmaps) I couldn't find
>where is my fault.  if you can find my fault or have some example codes
>like this please help me thanks from now.....
>
>
>
>from Tkinter import *
>import Image
>
>
>root = Tk()
>
>mainFrame = Canvas(root,width=400, height=420, bg='gray50',relief=RIDGE)
>mainFrame.pack(fill=BOTH,expand=1)
>
>scroll = Scrollbar(mainFrame)
>scroll.pack(side=RIGHT,expand=1,fill=BOTH)
>  
>


You just tried to pack the scrollbar inside a Canvas widget.  The 
scrollbar needs to be in the
root widget I would think :-)

    scroll = Scrollbar(root)
    scroll.pack(side=RIGHT,expand=1,fill=BOTH)



You just tried to pack the scroll



HTH
Martin






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jun 15 10:38:42 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 10:38:42 -0400
Subject: Where to report IDLE bugs? (was Re: Bug - where to report to ?)
References: <3eec4e29$0$28022$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <bci0di$24i$1@panix3.panix.com>

[posted & e-mailed]

In article <3eec4e29$0$28022$ba620e4c at reader1.news.skynet.be>,
Helmut Jarausch  <jarausch at skynet.be> wrote:
>
>what's the canonical place to send bug reports to?
>
>E.g. here is one
>
>cvs version from today,
>idle 0.9b1

Gerhard gave you a good but incorrect answer; IDLE is currently being
developed in its own SourceForge project, so you should use
http://idlefork.sourceforge.net/
which leads to
http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=9579

(This is a slightly tricky area right now, because IDLE is slated to be
re-integrated into Python for the 2.3 release.  If you care about IDLE,
you should subscribe to both python-dev and idle-dev, or at least monitor
the archives for them.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Jun  3 03:05:56 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 00:05:56 -0700
Subject: integer to string?
References: <3edbffd5.61792491@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0306022305.3bbc5451@posting.google.com>

To convert an int to a string just use str(i), where i is your int. 
You can also do i.__str__(), which should alert you to what is really
happening here.



From martin at enthought.com  Fri Jun 20 18:17:25 2003
From: martin at enthought.com (Martin Chilvers)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:17:25 -0500
Subject: Classic vs New-style classes...
Message-ID: <001101c33779$bd5fab80$6401a8c0@wallace>

I've searched the archives and docs for an answer to this one, but I'm
still stuck...

I am modifying some existing "Classic-class" code that dynamically
attaches a method to a class.

E.g.

>>> class Foo:
...     pass
...
>>> Foo.__dict__['bar'] = lambda self, x: x * 2
>>> type(Foo.__dict__)
<type 'dict'>
>>>

Now, I want to change Foo to be a "New-style" class (so that I can give
it a meta-class) and the problem is that I can't seem to modify it's
class dictionary.

E.g.

>>> class Foo(object)
...	pass
...
>>> Foo.__dict__['bar'] = lambda self, x: x * 2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: object does not support item assignment
>>> type(Foo.__dict__)
<type 'dict-proxy'>

Any ideas?

Martin Chilvers
martin at enthought.com
"There's no such thing as free software."






From sps at igdnyci.com  Tue Jun  3 12:57:08 2003
From: sps at igdnyci.com (IGDNYC Inc.)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 11:57:08 -0500
Subject: June 2003: Manhattan Office, Retail and Industrial Space Update
Message-ID: <E19NF5w-00064l-00@server1.allhostingsolutions.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20030603/17afe3a1/attachment.html>

From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jun  3 15:57:24 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:57:24 -0400
Subject: Exception - how to ignore it ?
References: <mailman.1054630805.30435.python-list@python.org> <3EDCA806.6060701@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <leucnTpCD6M0YEGjXTWcoA@comcast.com>

"Helmut Jarausch" <jarausch at skynet.be> wrote in message
news:3EDCA806.6060701 at skynet.be...
> Say an exception is raised at many places and I don't want
> to change the code. One more example would be a signal from
> hardware floating underflow.

Perhaps you are looking for an interrupt handler rather than a
(Python) exception handler.  (When interrupt handlers resume,
execution continues with the next instruction.)  Such are hardware
specific and best written in assembler or machine-specific C.  Whether
you could write an interrupt handler that usefully interacts with a
running Python program via the Python-C API is beyond  my knowledge.

Terry J. Reedy





From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Jun  2 17:59:02 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 02 Jun 2003 23:59:02 +0200
Subject: python2.0, _socket module, builtin, compile
References: <wavegroom-F3FB82.18240602062003@newsspool.solnet.ch>
Message-ID: <m365noxhsp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

wavegroom <wavegroom at gmx.net> writes:

> How can I compile python 2.0.1 under linux, so that i get the built in 
> functions as non static modules, so that i can load _socket.so at 
> runtime. (like in python2.2)

Uncomment the line

* shared *

in Setup. Read Setup for further details.

Regards,
Martin



From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 24 09:22:11 2003
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 06:22:11 -0700
Subject: Choosing the right database-system for a small project
References: <uAUJa.1825$os2.25697@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <283adf56.0306240522.5f429348@posting.google.com>

It sounds like pySqlite would fit your needs perfectly.



From gyromagnetic at excite.com  Mon Jun 23 09:56:32 2003
From: gyromagnetic at excite.com (gyro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:56:32 -0600
Subject: assuring class 'clean up' actions are carried out
Message-ID: <3ef70710@news.ColoState.EDU>

Hi,
I have a class which manages file- and directory-related things for an 
application. A simplified example is shown by class 'C2' below.

I would like to use an object of this class in another class ('C1' below).
My objective is to make sure that the '_cleanup' method of object C2 is 
called when C1 is destroyed or garbage collected.

I tried the solution below, but I get the following error when I execute 
file c1.py:
"Exception exceptions.ImportError: 'No module named shutil' in <bound 
method C1.__del__ of <__main__.C1 object at 0x811561c>> ignored"

Moreover, the temp directory is not deleted.

If I put an explicit 'del c1' below 'c1 = C1()', the cleanup seems to 
work fine. However, if possible, I would rather not have to explicitly 
delete the C1 instance. Is there a way to assure that the _cleanup is 
done when an object of C1 is eliminated by Python's garbage collector?

Thanks for your help.

-g



--- c1.py ---

from c2 import C2

class C1(object):
     def __init__(self):
         self.C2 = C2()

     def __del__(self):
         del self.C2

if __name__ == "__main__":
     c1 = C1()

--- end c1.py ---

--- c2.py ---

import tempfile

class C2(object):
     def __init__(self):
         self._tempdir = tempfile.mkdtemp()

     def _cleanup(self):
         import shutil
         shutil.rmtree(self._tempdir)

     def __del__(self):
         self._cleanup()

--- end c2.py ---




From gumuz at looze.net  Fri Jun 13 04:22:46 2003
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:22:46 +0200
Subject: pythonCOM with Flash
References: <RvPFa.37$zx6.1430@news.optus.net.au> <3ee87647$0$13808$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <dO0Ga.57821$4_1.15158275@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3ee99479$0$8300$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

hmmm, this is the first time I see this amfphp, but this is somewhat what I
was thinking of when I heard about the the python/flash combination.

So, I am very interested in this, but I need to dig a little bit deeper into
this stuff.
keep me updated

"Doug" <doug at notAvalidEmail.com> wrote in message
news:dO0Ga.57821$4_1.15158275 at twister.nyc.rr.com...
> I'm  also very interested in flash/python. in paticular porting amfphp to
> python. i'm pretty busy recently with work but would like to get in touch
> with others who feel they might be interested in porting amfphp to python.
> if you reply to this i'll email you privately if you want, my email in
this
> post is no-valid.
>
> Cheers,
> Doug
>
> "Guyon Mor?e" <gumuz at looze.net> wrote in message
> news:3ee87647$0$13808$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net...
> > I am afraid that I can not answer this question for you, but I am very
> > interested in the Flash/Python combination though. I allways like to try
> out
> > new gui/code combinations.
> >
> > Please let me know if you have any url's or something like that
> >
> >
> > "Bradley Schatz" <bradley at greystate.com> wrote in message
> > news:RvPFa.37$zx6.1430 at news.optus.net.au...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I am attempting to use Flash as a UI for a python program. I have
> > > successfully prototyped this using VB/Flash, and am not trying to
> convert
> > it
> > > over to work with python.
> > >
> > > My problem is this, when I run the following code (attached below)
> nothing
> > > happens.
> > >
> > > I assume that the Flash activex component needs to be placed in some
> > > container to be seen, as I am not seeing any window come up when I run
> > this.
> > >
> > > Could anyone suggest how to embed this into a container?
> > >
> > > Many thanks,
> > >
> > > Bradley
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > # Flashevents - test flash/python interop
> > > from win32com.client import DispatchWithEvents, Dispatch
> > > import msvcrt, pythoncom
> > > import time, sys
> > > import types
> > >
> > > import threading
> > > stopEvent = threading.Event()
> > >
> > > def TestFlash():
> > >     class FlashEvents:
> > >  def OnFSCommand(self, command, args):
> > >   print "FSCommend" , command
> > >  def OnProgress(self, percentDone):
> > >   print "PercentDone", percentDone
> > >  def OnReadyStateChange(self, newState):
> > >   print "State", newState
> > >
> > >     e = DispatchWithEvents("ShockwaveFlash.ShockwaveFlash",
FlashEvents)
> > >     e.seen_events = {}
> > >     e.LoadMovie(0,
> > > "http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/afassets/flash/hump_starwars.swf")
> > >     e.Play()
> > >     if not _WaitForFinish(e, 10000):
> > >         e.Quit()
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > def _WaitForFinish(ob, timeout):
> > >     end = time.time() + timeout
> > >     while 1:
> > >         if msvcrt.kbhit():
> > >             msvcrt.getch()
> > >             break
> > >         pythoncom.PumpWaitingMessages()
> > >         stopEvent.wait(.2)
> > >         if stopEvent.isSet():
> > >             stopEvent.clear()
> > >             break
> > >
> > >     return 1
> > >
> > >
> > > def test():
> > >     import sys
> > >     TestFlash()
> > >
> > > if __name__=='__main__':
> > >     test()
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>





From jarausch at skynet.be  Tue Jun 17 10:22:13 2003
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:22:13 +0200
Subject: non-implicit globals -- missing feature
In-Reply-To: <mTAHa.188476$g92.3820388@news2.tin.it>
References: <3eee2351$0$11585$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <mTAHa.188476$g92.3820388@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3EEF2415.6000303@skynet.be>

Alex Martelli wrote:
> Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm missing a feature (in many programming languages including
>>Python) that does not use global variables unless requested.
>>
>>Is there any means in Python to catch errors like this following one?
>>
>>x=1
>>
>># many many lines here
>>
>>def mysub()
>>   # x=7   #forgot this assignment
>>   # ....
>>   anothersub(x)  # this uses the global x unfortunately
>>                  # how can I get an exception here ?
>>
>>So I would prefer if there were an option / pragma
>>which say  # __no_implicit_globals__
>>
>>Is there any way to get this behaviour?
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, there isn't.  But are you really sure you'd like
> it if it was there?  Such an option would inevitably flag:
> 
> def myothersub():
>   x = 7
>   anothersub(x)
> 
> as an error, because name 'anothersub' is global too.  There
> is no strong distinction between names that are currently bound
> to callable objects and names that are bound to objects that
> are not callable, after all -- names are just names.

Ofcourse one wouldn't forbid all global names but you would be
forced to "declare" them. If I remember right, Modula requires
an 'import <Name>' statement to access non-local names.
Ofcourse 'import' is used differently in Python. And Python's
'global' keyword doesn't work either, since it has other
implications. So one would probably need something like
(with better keywords, ofcourse)

option no_implicit_globals
import_name  anothersub, ....

I still think this automatic usage of global names together with a
copy on write semantics is error-prone.

> 
> You may easily get a list of all names that a function uses
> and that are not local variables of that function, e.g.:
> 
> def nonlocals(f):
>     c = f.func_code
>     return [n for n in c.co_names if n not in c.co_varnames]
> 
> this would report ['anothersub', 'x'] in your example case,
> but just ['anothersub'] in the myothersub case.  There is no
> reasonable way, that I can see, to automate the vetting of
> these lists; but if you want to program arbitrary rules such
> as 'and report an error if some of the names are module
> attributes that are not callable', you could do so...
> 

Many thanks for your comment and especially this hint,
Helmut.


-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany




From suzuki-python at pixar.com  Thu Jun 12 22:11:05 2003
From: suzuki-python at pixar.com (e y suzuki)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 19:11:05 -0700
Subject: exceptions within user-defined functions?
Message-ID: <200306130211.h5D2B6K31024@eep.pixar.com>

i'm trying to put together a try/except clause within a function.  the
clause will specifically except the ValueError and NameError exceptions.
the clause can be put together fine, but i'm having a bit of trouble 
making the NameError exception be caught when the clause is included in 
a user-defined function.

try/except clause directly at the python interpreter appears fine for 
both NameError and ValueError:
>>> try:
...   val=int('eep')
...   print val
... except (NameError,ValueError),msg:
...   print msg
...
invalid literal for int(): eep
>>> try:
...   val=int(t)
...   print val
... except (NameError,ValueError),msg:
...   print msg
...
name 't' is not defined

i now place the try/except clause in a function:
>>> def str2no(x):
...   try:
...     val=int(x)
...     print val
...   except (NameError,ValueError),msg:
...     print msg
...

it appears to work fine for the ValueError, but although the traceback
for string t as input acknowledges that the error is a NameError, the 
error isn't caught (even though it is excepted in the function above):
>>> str2no('eep')
invalid literal for int(): eep
>>> str2no(t)
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 't' is not defined

i've also tried defining the str2no function without the ValueError 
exception to isolate the NameError, to no avail.  similar unsuccessful
result when excepting the parent error, StandardError, in lieu of both
ValueError and NameError (ValueError is caught fine).

what am i doing wrong?  please advise.

thanks in advance,
-eys





From postmaster at bthub01.bt.com  Sun Jun  1 20:04:24 2003
From: postmaster at bthub01.bt.com (postmaster at bthub01.bt.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 01:04:24 +0100 
Subject: Undeliverable: Re: Application
Message-ID: <B145D0171C7D9D4D93E59E96343EA1A20203281B@cbibipnt05.hc.bt.com>

Your message

  To:      N.Winton at axion.bt.co.uk
  Subject: Re: Application
  Sent:    Sun, 1 Jun 2003 20:03:48 +0100

did not reach the following recipient(s):

N.Winton at axion.bt.co.uk on Mon, 2 Jun 2003 01:04:12 +0100
    The recipient name is not recognized
	The MTS-ID of the original message is:
c=gb;a=bt;p=bt;l=CBIBIPNT050306020004LH2B6FFA
    MSEXCH:IMS:EXCHANGE:BTHUB01:CBIBIPNT05 3550 (000B09B6) 550 5.1.1
<N.Winton at axion.bt.co.uk>... User unknown


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From marks.pryorSHRUB at CHENEYverizon.net  Sat Jun 14 16:39:15 2003
From: marks.pryorSHRUB at CHENEYverizon.net (Mark S Pryor)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 20:39:15 GMT
Subject: KickAgent via wsh/python 
Message-ID: <TJLGa.16154$Bw2.179@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>

Hello,

Attention Win32 Forte Agent users:

Please review my WSH/Python script
to keep Agent going when it disconnects
from the NNTP server during a long fetch.

I've seen the KickAgent C-applet from here
http://www.geocities.com/nutsse/

Mine is a script suitable for launching via
the Windows Task Scheduler.

Just Another KickAgent:
http://mysite.verizon.net/res1ur2j/JAKickAgent.zip

hagwe,
Mark Pryor






From news at exultants.org  Fri Jun 20 07:30:19 2003
From: news at exultants.org (Van Gale)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:30:19 GMT
Subject: shebang strange thing...
In-Reply-To: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

Gilles Lenfant wrote:
> 
> I installed a brand new linux Mandrake and I noticed a strange thing when
> using the shebang in a python script.
> 
> $ ./myscript.py
> error : interpreter not found. (!!!)

There's a very subtle bug (feature?) in bash (and maybe other shells?) 
that will generate this error if the line is terminated with a CR/LF 
pair instead of just a linefeed.

Your script came from a DOS/Windows system and the CR's weren't 
stripped.  If you copied using FTP make sure to use "text" mode.  If you 
  extracted a zip archive using the "unzip" command use "-a" to convert 
text files.

Van




From jwm at emptech.com  Tue Jun  3 01:18:01 2003
From: jwm at emptech.com (Jeff McCarrell)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 22:18:01 -0700
Subject: how to create module documentation: gendoc? pythondoc? other?
Message-ID: <ec338771.0306022118.363faa6b@posting.google.com>

Hi.  The python faq says to use Daniel's gendoc utility to create
module documentation from doc strings.

Daniel's site (http://starship.python.net/crew/danilo/) says
gendoc is no longer being developed and to use pythondoc instead.

When I run pythondoc on itself (using 2.2.2), I get deprecation
warnings
about regex and regsub (annoying, but not fatal),
and a fatal error:

gobi-> python pdoc.py -f HTML4 -i -d /tmp/html pythondoc
  (deprecations elided)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "pdoc.py", line 2, in ?
    import pythondoc.pythondoc
  File "pythondoc.py", line 66, in ?
    import docobjects, formatters, xref, options, stdmarkup, message,
version
  File "xref\__init__.py", line 1, in ?
    import xref
  File "xref\xref.py", line 28
    exec "import %s" % py_module
SyntaxError: unqualified exec is not allowed in function 'main' it
contains a nested function with free variables

What is the preferred method to autogenerate module documentation
these days?

-- jeff



From gyromagnetic at excite.com  Mon Jun 16 16:36:30 2003
From: gyromagnetic at excite.com (gyro)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:36:30 -0600
Subject: insert thousands separators
In-Reply-To: <yyy3ci9hnij.fsf@adams.patriot.net>
References: <3EE9E548.9010701@isst.fhg.de> <yyyvfv9hpj9.fsf@adams.patriot.net> <mailman.1055529144.29572.python-list@python.org> <bcdu5e$chh$0@216.39.172.122> <yyy8ys2gm6v.fsf@adams.patriot.net> <mailman.1055772692.18861.python-list@python.org> <yyy3ci9hnij.fsf@adams.patriot.net>
Message-ID: <3eee2a4d@news.ColoState.EDU>

Nick Vargish wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:
> 
> 
>>So if you only want to print the fractional value, str() will do
>>fine. But str() won't make floats capable of representing arbitrary
>>numbers, either ;-)
> 
> 
> If I really cared about floats, I could str(fval).split('.') -- after
> checking for floatness, of course. But since I don't care about
> floats, I'm gonna let it ride for now -- until it bites me in some
> other context. :^)
> 
> Nick
> 

Hi,
How about the ugliness below for floating point numbers?

-g


===

def include_separator(val,thous_sep=',',dec_sep='.'):
     """Format a floating point number so that it has thousands 
separators.
 

     """

     import re

     snum = str(val)

     # regular expression for a general floating point number 

     num_regex = re.compile(''' 

       (?P<msign>[-+])?                          # perhaps a leading 
sign
       ((?P<mnum>[0-9]+)(?P<mfrc>\%s?[0-9]*)|    # a number, a 
separator, and a decimal part
       (?P<mdec>\%s[0-9]+))                      # or just a separator 
and decimal part
       (?P<mexp>[eE][-+]?[0-9]+)?                # and perhaps an 
exponent
       ''' % (dec_sep,dec_sep), re.VERBOSE)

     msrch = num_regex.search(snum)

     # find out which pieces of the general floating point number 

     # were found in the target 

     if msrch:
         ms = msrch.group
         msign = ms('msign') or ''
         mnum = ms('mnum') or ''
         mexp = ms('mexp') or ''
         mfrc = ms('mfrc') or ''
         mdec = ms('mdec') or ''

         # put thousands separator in place in the whole number piece 

         if mnum:
             if int(mnum) == 0: mnum = '0'
             cc = []
             rnum = list(mnum)
             rnum.reverse()
             i = 1
             for dig in rnum:
                 cc.append(dig)
                 if i % 3 == 0 and i != len(rnum): cc.append(thous_sep)
                 i += 1
             cc.reverse()
             mnum = ''.join(cc)

     # reassemble the pieces 

     fnum = msign + (mnum + mfrc or mdec) + mexp

     return fnum

if __name__ == "__main__":
     print include_separator('-12345.234') 

     print include_separator('-000000.00234') 

     print include_separator('-0.00234') 

     print include_separator(12345) 

     print include_separator('-12345,234e4','.',',') 

     print include_separator('1.234') 

     print include_separator('-123.234') 

     print include_separator('-123456,234','.',',')




From tojopiter at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 12 03:28:07 2003
From: tojopiter at yahoo.com (piter)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:28:07 +0200
Subject: Suppressing the header in a ListView
References: <mailman.1055344341.7180.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc99jj$dee$1@news.onet.pl>

Uzytkownik "Paul McNett" <p at ulmcnett.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:mailman.1055344341.7180.python-list at python.org...
Hi,

Anyone know how to hide the header of a QListView? I just have a simple,
non-hierarchical, one-column list of CheckListItems, and in this case the
header makes it less visually appealing.


QListViewInstance.header().hide()

p

--
Paul McNett






From Mike.Prager at noaa.gov  Wed Jun  4 17:08:00 2003
From: Mike.Prager at noaa.gov (Michael Prager)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:08:00 -0400
Subject: smtplib and SSL
References: <rj7qdv8ovhbgadaoenfi18hhelrlkaqgas@4ax.com> <mailman.1054681447.28648.python-list@python.org> <3mmqdv0afmoq1m04if4ejjpk2rpgmvl95q@4ax.com> <mailman.1054719126.23142.python-list@python.org> <vmgsdvccl9fuecok237c6dt3v1kigb408m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4tnsdvs8voamobbpq0tf200hvsijn8tmcs@4ax.com>

Michael Prager <Mike.Prager at noaa.gov> wrote:

>Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:
>
>>
>>Please post the output of this script:
>>
>>#v+
>>import smtplib
>>
>>s = smtplib.SMTP("myserver")
>>s.debuglevel = 5
>>s.login("myusername", "mypassword")
>>#v-
>

Authentication is now working perfectly, perhaps because I
updated from Python 2.2.2 to 2.2.3?

Thanks again for your help!


-- 
Mike Prager
NOAA, Beaufort, NC
* Opinions expressed are personal and not represented otherwise.
* Any use of tradenames does not constitute a NOAA endorsement.



From mrdovey at iedu.com  Wed Jun  4 06:13:13 2003
From: mrdovey at iedu.com (Morris Dovey)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 05:13:13 -0500
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EDDC639.1010800@iedu.com>

Pupppy Wizzard wrote:
> Hi. I am an old school programmer looking to modernize my skill set. I
> want to focus on one new language. Should I choose:

<Snipped list of languages not including C>

Responding from comp.lang.c ...

If you take the troll bait and respond, please drop comp.lang.c

-- 
Morris Dovey
West Des Moines, Iowa USA
C links at http://www.iedu.com/c




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Jun  3 15:47:41 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:47:41 -0500
Subject: Proposed extension to file constructor
In-Reply-To: <16092.63916.83822.950537@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <20030603182813.GB1366@taral.net> <16092.63916.83822.950537@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20030603194740.GA8136@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 02:40:28PM -0500, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     taral> I needed to extend popen functionality, so I modified the file
>     taral> constructor to optionally take a file descriptor. It was, in my
>     taral> opinion, the minimum way to do it while preserving isinstance(x,
>     taral> file).
> 
> Where are you getting file descriptors?  What's wrong with using os.fdopen
> to wrap a file descriptor in a file object?
> 
>     fdopen(...)
>         fdopen(fd [, mode='r' [, bufsize]]) -> file_object
> 
>         Return an open file object connected to a file descriptor.

.. but maybe this is the natural interpretation of file(i) when
isinstance(i, int).

.. and maybe the natural interpretation of file(f) when isinstance(f,
int) is file(os.dup(f.fileno())) (assuming the above file(i) behavior)

.. and maybe the natural interpretation of file("-") is sys.stdin, and
file("-", "w") is sys.stdout.

.. and maybe I should just shut up now.

Jeff
PS I'm not sure if I'm serious, sarcastic, or maybe even doing a bad job
of trolling.  Let me know if you can tell.  I think I'm half-serious
about the first two items.




From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Jun 20 14:29:44 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:29:44 -0700
Subject: Using OS time
References: <20030620152602.22899.77521.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1056123940.18251.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-D8469D.11294420062003@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.1056123940.18251.python-list at python.org>,
 valhalla <tireseas at onetel.com> wrote:
> The problem:
> I am writing a rather simple guessing game (a random number is generated, 
> user 
> has to guess the number).
> I am wanting to introduce a time-limit on the game-play so that the user has 
> - 
> e.g. 60 seconds - within which to guess the correct number otherwise they 
> lose.

I would call this imposing a timeout on input, so the place to start
is your input.  If that's something fancy, like X11 or some Windows
user interface API, then there will probably be some provision for
that kind of thing but finding it is up to you.  If you're just reading
from a UNIX terminal, this would do something like that  -

import os
import select

class TimeoutError(Exception):
        pass

def readto(maxsize, timeout):
        r, w, e = select.select([0], [], [], timeout)
        if r:
                return os.read(0, maxsize)
        else:
                raise TimeoutError

I used 0 and os.read where you might currently be using the stdin
file object.  stdin reads from unit 0, but it adds some buffering
that can confuse matters when also using select.

Stay away from signals when possible - if there's anything worse
than signals, it's signals in Python.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From kendear at nospam.com  Thu Jun 19 05:16:17 2003
From: kendear at nospam.com (Kendear)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:16:17 GMT
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com> <LzVHa.197277$g92.4017170@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3EF17F60.1000400@nospam.com>


Alex Martelli wrote:
 > for key, value in [ [lst[i],list[i+1]] for i in range(0,len(lst),2) ]:
 >
 > or, as others have indicated, in Python 2.3 you could slice lst[::2]
 > and lst[1::2] to get the even and odd items and zip them up again:
 >
 > for key, value in zip(lst[::2], lst[1::2]):

thanks very much for all the hints...
they have helped a lot.

I'd prefer not to rely on the newline
separating each key value pair or any limitation
of the white spaces...  so i tried
the following and they seem to work fine...

 >>> lst = """
a    1            b     1000
foo  3            foo2  2000
bar  234          bar2  1200
joe  321          cool  2
"""

 >>> lst = lst.split()

 >>> dict([(lst[i], eval(lst[i+1])) for i in range(0, len(lst), 2)])
{'a': 1, 'bar2': 1200, 'bar': 234, 'foo': 3, 'cool': 2, 'b': 1000, 'foo2': 2000, 'joe': 321}

 >>> dict([(lst.pop(0), eval(lst.pop(0))) for i in range(0, len(lst), 2)])
{'a': 1, 'bar2': 1200, 'bar': 234, 'foo': 3, 'cool': 2, 'b': 1000, 'foo2': 2000, 'joe': 321}

# or the above can be
 >>> dict([(lst.pop(0), eval(lst.pop(0))) for i in range(len(lst)/2)])
{'a': 1, 'bar2': 1200, 'bar': 234, 'foo': 3, 'cool': 2, 'b': 1000, 'foo2': 2000, 'joe': 321}





From jerf at jerf.org  Wed Jun 11 17:24:36 2003
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:24:36 GMT
Subject: Need urgent solution......................
References: <mailman.1055352808.1075.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.12.17.24.15.667678@jerf.org>

On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:32:22 +0000, Suresh  Kumar wrote:

> Hi,
> 
>    I am using python and tkinter. My question is a simple one. How 
> to find number of pixels that a text occupies in canvas? In 
> otherwords how can i get the width of the text whose width is not 
> set explicitly? I have placed a text, say "Hello World",  in the 
> canvas using "create_text" and want to find number pixels that it 
> occupies.

You want to look at the methods on the Font class, like "measure". See
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/x4671-methods.htm .

Also take a look at what the metrics method returns; IIRC it has the
height of the font in there, in case you need it.

I'd also like to echo the comments of others about asking better
questions; the more urgent the question the more important a direct, to
the point subject line is, making it more likely a knowledgeable person
will find it. I happen to know the answer though so I can actually give it
;-)

Good luck.



From max-resume at alcyone.com  Thu Jun 19 04:13:04 2003
From: max-resume at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:13:04 -0700
Subject: [OT] (was: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?)
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <Xns939E2E07D8A6EJanC@213.119.4.94> <3EEFD22C.93B58AE3@alcyone.com> <yyyfzm7dyne.fsf@adams.patriot.net> <bcqehq$178$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3EF17090.E645E431@alcyone.com>

Aahz wrote:

> _Footfall_ refers to that as "Orion" or "Bang bang".  ;-)

Orion is fission powered.  Daedalus is fusion powered.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Liberty is the right to do whatever the law permits.
\__/  Charles Louis Montesquieu



From artyprog at wanadoo.fr  Thu Jun 12 16:02:00 2003
From: artyprog at wanadoo.fr (Salvatore)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 22:02:00 +0200
Subject: Twice instanciation
In-Reply-To: <bcakrl$ivt$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
References: <bcakmg$jv7$1@news-reader14.wanadoo.fr> <bcakrl$ivt$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <3EE8DC38.9010707@wanadoo.fr>

vincent wehren wrote:

> "Salvatore" <artyprog at wanadoo.fr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:bcakmg$jv7$1 at news-reader14.wanadoo.fr...
> 
>>Hello,
>>
>>Is it possible to avoid twice instanciation
>>of the same variable ?
> 
> 
> Maybe this helps:
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Cookbook/Recipe/52558

Indeed it helped ;-)

Thanks Vincent




From i at mindlace.net  Wed Jun 18 18:07:04 2003
From: i at mindlace.net (emf)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:07:04 -0700
Subject: Postgresql: plpython may be removed
In-Reply-To: <16112.57458.12166.525214@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <200306181436.21252.scott_list@mischko.com>
 <16112.57458.12166.525214@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <2147483647.1055948824@[10.0.1.2]>

--On 18 Wednesday, June 2003 16:58 -0500 Skip Montanaro 
<skip at pobox.com> wrote:

[snip plpython may be dropped]
> How so?  I use PostgreSQL from Python and have never heard of
> plpython.  I use psycopg which is well-supported, albeit not by the
> PostgreSQL folks.

plpython allows you to use python as a stored procedure language in 
postgresql.

~mindlace
http://mindlace.net




From tom_verbeure at hot.nospam.mail.com  Mon Jun  2 18:03:16 2003
From: tom_verbeure at hot.nospam.mail.com (Tom Verbeure)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 00:03:16 +0200
Subject: ascii tables
References: <mailman.1054224096.17795.python-list@python.org> <3ED6511F.B75B1C10@engcorp.com> <m2n0h5vap0.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <mailman.1054247985.19551.python-list@python.org> <bbg6kb$dif$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3edbc954$0$26702$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> schreef in bericht
news:bbg6kb$dif$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> On Fri, 30 May 2003 00:37:46 +0200, Carel Fellinger
<carel.fellinger at chello.nl> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 02:01:47PM -0500, John Hunter wrote:
> >...
> >> Here is my first pass at a solution, which prints
> >>
> >>     Name   | Age | Sex | Weight | Height
> >>     ------------------------------------
> >>     John   |  35 |  M  |  170.0 |   60.1
> >>     ------------------------------------
> >>     Miriam |  31 |  F  |  135.0 |   58.2
> >>     ------------------------------------
> >>     Rahel  |   5 |  F  |   40.0 |   48.2
> >>     ------------------------------------
> >>     Ava    |   2 |  F  |   25.0 |   30.0
> >
> >it's old printer wisdom that one should be very reluctant to use lines
> >in tables, and indeed I find the following much easier on the eyes:
> >
> >    Name   : Age : Sex : Weight : Height
> >    ------------------------------------
> >    John      35    M     170.0     60.1
> >    Miriam    31    F     135.0     58.2
> >    Rahel      5    F      40.0     48.2
> >    Ava        2    F      25.0     30.0
> >
> Agreed, but IMO this boxed format is not too bad
> an alternative (and if you have a font with box
> characters it can look pretty nice).
>
>    +--------+-----+-----+--------+--------+
>    | Name   | Age | Sex | Weight | Height |
>    +--------+-----+-----+--------+--------+
>    | John   |  35 |  M  |  170.0 |   60.1 |
>    | Miriam |  31 |  F  |  135.0 |   58.2 |
>    | Rahel  |   5 |  F  |   40.0 |   48.2 |
>    | Ava    |   2 |  F  |   25.0 |   30.0 |
>    +--------+-----+-----+--------+--------+
>
> >use atleast 3 spaces to seperate columns and you won't need that ugly
bar.
> >
> >
> >...
> >>     def pad_entry(entry, align, width):
> >
> >you could also use str's center, ljust and rjust methods.
> >
> >
>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Jun  4 12:03:15 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:03:15 -0400
Subject: a wierd parameter passing behavior
References: <5ca99eab.0306040529.2d6f85@posting.google.com> <bbku1b$93oj7$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <7o2cnaupwIXGhUOjXTWcpg@comcast.com>

> >     l += [3]
>
> This is like l.append()

l.extend(), actually.

tjr





From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 19 03:32:53 2003
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 00:32:53 -0700
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
References: <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <94974e1a.0306182332.5d0c4ac8@posting.google.com>

wrbt at email.com (Larry) wrote in message news:<2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6 at posting.google.com>...
> I need to take a list (probably 20k to 40k elements) of numbers and
> remove consecutive duplicates. Non consecutive duplicates are ok.
> 
> Example: [6,3,3,3,5,7,6,3,4,4,3] => [6,3,5,7,6,3,4,3]
> 
> The 3 and 6 can appear more than once in the result set because
> they're separated by another value. Obviously this is trivial to
> accomplish by walking thru the list and building a new one (or yanking
> elements out of the existing one) but I'm curious if anyone knows of a
> more clever way, with speed being a goal more than memory usage.

Another list comp method, taking a slightly different angle:

[lst[i] for i in range(len(lst)) if(i!=len(lst)-1 and
lst[i]!=lst[i+1])]

Iterating over a list of integers rather than a modified list of
objects seems to be faster. This would depend how the list was
modified, but the len method is in C, and I'm guessing the range
method is too.

HTH,
Paul



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jun 10 20:47:28 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:47:28 -0700
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <mailman.1055217438.10041.python-list@python.org>
		 <dd5454fb.0306101346.201331fc@posting.google.com>
		 <3EE65444.907E6D87@alcyone.com>
		 <mailman.1055283799.2307.python-list@python.org>
		 <3EE6646E.47555429@alcyone.com> <mailman.1055286920.18421.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE67C20.941FCA51@alcyone.com>

Ian Bicking wrote:

> "Has" doesn't seem good, because it implies that the function has a
> property (of being a classmethod or something), when in fact the
> function is being replaced/wrapped.

A fair point.  So if you were able to choose any keyword for this task
that you wished, which would you choose?

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Light ... more light!
\__/  (the last words of Goethe)



From cce at clarkevans.com  Sun Jun  8 15:18:45 2003
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C. Evans)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:18:45 +0000
Subject: Syck - "C" YAML implementation /w Python binding
Message-ID: <20030608191845.GA3642@doublegemini.com>

I just wanted to pass along a note that there is now a (quite 
stable) "C" YAML implementation with a Python binding.   It is not
perfect, however, it is useable and quite fast.

Best,

Clark

------------------------------------------------------------
From: why the lucky stiff <yaml-core at whytheluckystiff.net>
To: yaml-core at lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Yaml-core] Syck 0.35 + YAML.rb 0.60 -- the 1st stable release
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:16:40 -0600

proudly announcing...

                   | syck 0.35 |
                        \o/
                         ))
                        / \

(some intentional sticking-out of the belly is warranted, don't you
think?)

The ruby-core team has been immensely helpful, contributing bug reports
that have helped polish out Syck very quickly.  I'm pleased to say that
Syck has now surpassed previous versions of YAML.rb.  It is very stable 
and very fast.

This version handles large files, especially streaming of large files,
much better.  YTS is 85% pass.  Some of the fails are (I believe)
incorrect tests.  We'll get into that soon.

If you have Ruby 1.8.0, simply update from Ruby CVS.  If you have Ruby
1.6.x, then install Syck from the tarball link below.

The Python and PHP extensions haven't changed at all (though they
benefit from the wealth of changes to the Syck core.)  When Ruby 1.8.0
is released, I'll be hitting those extensions harder.

_why

---
released: { name: Syck, version: 0.35 }
for: [ Ruby, PHP, Python ]
by: why the lucky stiff
about: >

  Syck is a YAML parser, an extension for scripting
  languages, written in C.  

  So what is YAML?  YAML is a new language for data.
  Describe objects in plain text.  Load the data into
  your scripting language as arrays, dictionaries,
  classes, or primitives.

links:
  YAML: http://www.yaml.org/
  YAML Cookbook: http://yaml4r.sf.net/cookbook/
  YAML Type Repository: http://yaml.org/type/
  YAML Specification: http://yaml.org/spec/
  Syck: http://www.whytheluckystiff.net/syck/
  Syck Benchmarks: http://www.whytheluckystiff.net/arch/2003/03/19
  Tarball @ SourceForge: >
      http://aleron.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/yaml4r/syck-0.35.tar.gz

status: >

  Syck is about 85% compliant with the YAML spec.  Largely, small
  issues remain.

  The extensions are quite usable.  Ruby, PHP and Python
  can load from a string containing YAML.

  Ruby has support for stream loading, type handling, YPath, Okay.
  This release marks the 0.60 release of YAML.rb.

benchmarks: >

  Syck is quite speedy, although not as swift as most language's
  native serialization.

  Syck runs at about:

  30-35% of the speed of Ruby's Marshal.
  35-90% of the speed of PHP's deserialize().
  600% of the speed of Python's Pickle.
  33-40% of the speed of Python's cPickle.

  (Based on various types of structured data.)

installation: >

  Syck contains working extensions for the Ruby, PHP, and Python
  languages.  Each requires compilation of the libsyck library,
  followed by compilation of the extension.

  To compile libsyck, first download libsyck.

    tar xzvf syck-0.35.tar.gz
    cd syck-0.35
    ./configure
    make
    sudo make install

  To install the Ruby extension:

    cd ext/ruby
    ruby install.rb config
    ruby install.rb setup
    sudo ruby install.rb install

  To install the Python extension:

    cd ext/python
    python setup.py build
    sudo python setup.py install

  To install the PHP extension:

    sh make_module.sh
    sudo make install (if you weren't root during make_module.sh)
    php -q syck.php

examples:

  To load this document in Ruby: |

     ($:~)$ irb
     >> require 'syck'
     => true
     >> yp = YAML::Syck::Parser.new( {} )
     => #<YAML::Syck::Parser:0x8058530>
     >> yp.load( File.open( 'syck-0.35.yml' ) )
     => {"status"=>"Syck is about 60% compliant ..."}

  To load this document in PHP: |

     ($:~)$ php -a
     Interactive mode enabled

     <? dl( 'syck.so' ); print_r( syck_load( implode( '', file( 'syck-0.35.yml' ) ) ) ); ?>
  
     .. php then outputs ..

     X-Powered-By: PHP/4.2.3
     Content-type: text/html
     
     Array
     (   
         [released] => Array
             (   
                 [name] => Syck
                 [version] => 0.35
             )

     .. and so on ..

  To load this document in Python: |

     ($:~)$ python
     Python 2.1.3 (#1, Jul 11 2002, 17:52:24) 
     [GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release) [FreeBSD]] on freebsd4
     Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
     >>> import syck
     >>> f = open( 'syck-0.35.yml' )
     >>> syck.load( f.read() )
     {'by': 'why the lucky stiff', ... }





From ed at membled.com  Mon Jun  9 17:11:28 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 22:11:28 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0306070837.789f2a9f@posting.google.com> <l13cilipsy.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <2259b0e2.0306080404.47f621bf@posting.google.com> <l1wufwg3ko.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <3ee4cadb_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>
Message-ID: <l1el23dkhr.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

"Daniel Fackrell" <newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com> writes:

>>>Am I mistaken or you want dict.__setitem__ ?
>>
>>Yes, but ideally without the four underscores which seem to convey
>>'internal stuff, you're not really meant to call this'.

>http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/id-classes.html
>
>So not really internal stuff, just treated a bit differently.  The
>_something and __something forms could, however, be seen as
>discouraging use without giving more serious thought.

Yes, normally the principle is that dangerous things should have long
and dangerous-looking names.  But __setitem__ is not at all dangerous,
it is the analogue of d[k] = v.  It ought to have a shorter name.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From dwblas at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 10 16:06:53 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (DavidW Blaschke)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:06:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Error checking in Python
Message-ID: <20030610200653.54883.qmail@web21601.mail.yahoo.com>

Assuming that you want more info than assert failed at
such and such a line number, check out try/except.

a ="abc"
try :
    assert int == type(a)
    print "Still in try:"
except :
    print a, "is not an integer -- program aborted"
    ## or invoke some error handler

You can also use a variable to turn the messages on or
off:

verbose = 1
if verbose :
    ##print out variable values and what's happening

You might use this if you are writing a new program
that called existing functions, and you want the
existing fuctions to tell you what data they receive
and how they react to it, without the additional
overhead under normal use.

Finally, changing a variable's type should only be
done if you have some sort of check afterwards.  A
simple example is a function that expects to receive
the month as an int.  It's o.k. to change the type to
int because you are going to be checking the bounds
anyway - 
assert 0 < month < 13.  I don't think anyone keeps
stats on this, but it has to be a fairly rare
occurance.  Sorry I brought it up in the first place
as it just led to confusion.

HTH
D.W

--- In python-list at yahoogroups.com, BGM <no.spam at c...>
wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot to all those who took the time to reply
to my question! 
Your
> replies have helped clarify things a little and
given me some food 
for
> thought. Coming from C, my instinct was to return
error codes. On 
some
> reflection, though, I think this is not necessarily
the best idea 
since if
> someone misunderstands your function enough to pass
the "wrong" arg, 
then
> they are likely not checking for any error codes
either, in which 
case
> after the return of the function, the program my
continue merrily 
along,
> or an exception will eventually be raised by python
anyway. In the 
former
> case, the user of the function might have an
extraordinarily tough 
time
> figuring out what is wrong.
> 
> A certain aspect of the replies interests me
greatly: That if one 
does no
> type-checking, the function lends itself to
previously unforseen
> generalization.... E.g. if the function were meant
to multiply some
> number by 2: x = x * 2 in which case that is also
valid even if x is 
a
> string! I wonder whether this phenomena is found to
be useful in 
practice?
> Does anyone know?
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------
> Regards,
> Gitonga Marete a.k.a BGM
>



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com




From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Jun 11 10:07:01 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:07:01 -0500
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330509C6D0@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Courageous [mailto:jkraska at san.rr.com]
> 
> There are many options:
> 
> Various punctuation-governed:
> 
> 	def myfunc (myvar); synchronized:
> 	def myfunc (myvar), final:
> 

We all know Guido, these are *NEVER* going to fly,
and I at least prefer it like that; this isn't Perl
nor C; if something important, such as function
(and maybe class) modifiers are to pass, they most
surely will be introduced using a keyword or in a
list form:

def myfunc(...args...) [ a, b, c, ...] :
  ...

>
> Modifier tuple first:
> 	
> 	def (synchronized) myfunc (myvar):
> 	def (final, synchronized) myfunc (myvar):
> 

Let's be realistic, ok?

>
> Modifier tuple second:
> 
> 	def myfunc (myvar) (synchronized):
> 	def myfunc (myvar) (final, synchronized):
> 

...has potential, except on Python-Dev it's already
been decided that a list is preferable to a tuple,
in order to keep it readable; two consecutive
tuples have the risk of running into each other,
visually at least.  Change the tuple into a list
and you have:

>>> def myfunc(myvar) [synchronized]: ....

>>> def myfunc(myvar) [final, synchronized]: ....

which reads easier.  Also, your first example has
a bug, your (synchronized) tuple is missing it's
mandatory comma:

>>> def myfunc(myvar) (synchronized,): ....

this mandatory last comma, when there's a single
element in the tuple, kills the tuple form
of modifier sequence, it'll never pass.

>
> Different keyword:
> 
> 	def myfunction (myvar) using final, synchronized:
> 
> Where "using" is defined to mean "using the semantics
> of".
>

YES!  This form has much, much potential.  There's the
problem that it's "using <tuple>", but it can be
an alternative, "using <tuple>|<callable>", so that
can be solved.

The "using" pseudo-keyword is the right one, it has
exactly the right subjective meaning, and doesn't
overload any other keyword, pseudo or otherwise.

Thanks CS :-)

-gca
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Jun  6 12:56:44 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:56:44 -0500 
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304FE7B94@mail.hebmex.com>

> 
> Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
> 
> Maybe we - being the people wanting to move to WxPython - should write a
PEP...
>

Hmmm... and maybe wxPython has not become the defacto gui for
python for a reason.

Many will attest to having similar experiences with it as I,
that it's a horrible mess to get working.  I've tried several
times in the past to get it working on linux, to no avail.

OTOH, Tkinter is maintained by the core python developers,
and they understand it's inner working.  Also, Tk is a very
flexible toolkit, and there exist many widgets you can download
for it.  Adding support for those external widgets to Tkinter
is downright trivial, since Tkinter uses tcl internally, and
you can send tcl commands "down the pipe" for these other
widgets.

wxPython is a complex beast, as is wxWindows.  I'm not saying
it doesn't have it's place, but I don't think it's place is
being the primary gui for Python, at least, not yet.

Fox toolkit anyone?

these are just my 2 cents, so don't go start any holywars
on my account.

-gca

--
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jun 18 14:32:32 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:32:32 -0700
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <bcq4c4$lff$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <donn-59AB60.11323218062003@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <bcq4c4$lff$0 at 216.39.172.122>, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) 
wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:25:54 -0400, David Abrahams 
> <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote:
>>Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
>>
>>> But this has little to do with the need of 'type declarations'.  I
>>> suspect that a statically typed language would also be better off
>>> without them, relying on type inferencing instead, a la Haskell (and
>>> Haskell's typeclasses to keep the inferencing as wide as feasible),
>>> for example.  But I have no research to back this up;-).
>>
>> I don't have any first-hand experience, but the experience of friends
>> of mine who have used Haskell is that it can be exceedingly difficult
>> to locate the source of a type error when it does occur, since the
>> inference engine may propagate the "wrong" type back much further than
>> the source of the error.
>>
>> Furthermore, if you do everything by inference you lose the
>> explanatory power of type declarations.

Haskell style does encourage type declarations at some point, the
way I understand it.  I'm a lightweight, but my approach is usually
to write the first cut without many (or any) declarations, and add
them after I get things sorted out, just in case I have to figure
the code out later.  Or I might resort to that to help clarify a
type conflict - that out-ranks inference, of course, so it will
resolve the ambiguity that causes that ``locate the type error''
problem.  It's just a lot different when you can more or less
optionally add some type annotations, compared to a system that
forces you to declare every single thing - not only does it focus
more on the algorithm without all the declaration noise, but the
types arrived at by inference tend to be more general.

> But what does "type" really mean? ISTM that in the static typing world
> "type" mostly identifies a type of *representation* -- i.e., things that
> have compatible memory layouts. Of course any Python implementation will
> have underlying *representations* of its entities, but those are not a
> central concern of Python or Python programmers. In fact, UIAM it is a
> goal of Python design to enable programmers to forget about concrete
> representations as much as possible, except for "foreign" interfacing.
> 
> I.e., the "types" of Python are more abstract, and are more about
> abstract structure and functional compatibility than underlying
> representation. ISTM "static" typing in this world can't be a direct
> translation of the old concept, unless you are talking about an interface
> to an old-style "statically typed" world, or want to incorporate
> an encapsulated chunk of that into python.

I think I agree with your conclusion, but not at all with the rest.
Haskell's type system supports a reasonable degree of abstraction
and is certainly not about memory layout.  But Python couldn't be
statically typed without serious compromise to the language.
I guess it might be interesting to speculate about exactly what
compromises would be needed - would it be enough to just forbid any
run time change to the type (in your functional sense) of an object,
for example?  How many of the changes would also help with compilation
to native code?  But this is about design of a new language, since at
any rate it would not be compatible with the old one.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jun  5 15:15:18 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 15:15:18 -0400
Subject: Module for quasi-random sequences?
References: <1BLDa.10298$KF1.144776@amstwist00> <3edf8f97$0$45186$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>
Message-ID: <bbo4s6$2q4$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3edf8f97$0$45186$65c69314 at mercury.nildram.net>,
Andrew Wilkinson  <ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>Sorry this doesn't directly answer your question, but there is the random
>module that is part of the standard library.
>
>http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-random.html
>
>Not sure what method it uses, but unless you actually need those specific
>methods of generating a random list it's good enough for most applications.

Python 2.2 and earlier uses Wichmann-Hill; Python 2.3 uses the Mersenne
Twister.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From ckasso at sprynet.com  Wed Jun 11 12:10:50 2003
From: ckasso at sprynet.com (Chris Kassopulo)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:10:50 -0400
Subject: idle /idlefork slackware
References: <mailman.1055300241.15234.python-list@python.org>
	<EnxFa.47409$4y6.725926@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20030611121050.274bcba8.ckasso@sprynet.com>

 > Todd Stephens <tbstep at tampaSNAKESbay.rr.com>  wrote:
 > An email was forwarded to Pat V, but I doubt he is
 > overly concerned with the Python package.
 > 
 
Actually, Pat replied to the post on the tutor list.  I include the post
as reference.

*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***
On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, Rob McGee wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 08:33:42PM -0400, Todd Stephens wrote:
> > > I am wanting to use Idle on Slackware 9.0 but cannot seem to call it up
> > > using the command line, and there aren't any menu items for it. Nor can I
> > > seem to find it buried within the Python directory. I was under the
> >
> > Looks to me like the default python installation in Slack 9 leaves it out.  A
> > quick 'locate idle' turns up only the following:
> >
> > /usr/doc/python-2.2.2/html/lib/idle.html
> >
> > I can't find anything in /usr/lib/python2.2/ either.
>
> Correct. I found this issue in Slackware 8.0 too, but I forgot to ask
> Pat (Slackware maintainer) about it. Now that you've reminded me, I'm
> CC'ing this to him.
>
> Pat, the "Tools" directory in the top-level of the Python source tarball
> contains some goodies which would be nice to have ... they're not copied
> over in the "make install".

Hi all,

I'll be adding a python-tools package (and python-demo package, while I'm
at it) to slackware-current sometime soon.  Thanks for cueing me in on
this, Rob!  (especially since you caught this before I put up 2.2.3
packages :-)

Take care,

Pat

_______________________________________________
Tutor maillist  -  Tutor at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

*** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***

Chris Kassopulo



From jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com  Sun Jun 22 00:59:09 2003
From: jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:59:09 -0600
Subject: ANNOUNCE: JOTWeb 1.11, preview of new web application system.
In-Reply-To: <bct3qk.1do.1@kserver.org>
References: <20030617162210.GB5896@tummy.com> <1055884182.1169.11.camel@emilio> <mailman.1055919212.4742.python-list@python.org> <m3he6nbr78.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <20030619102215.GC23876@tummy.com> <m3el1q9uio.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <mailman.1056066276.16798.python-list@python.org> <m3isr1pn6z.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <bct3qk.1do.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <20030622045909.GC27578@tummy.com>

On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 07:44:19PM -0700, Sheila King wrote:
>There are a lot of Python web frameworks to choose from and I spent about a
>week reviewing possible contenders. May have been others that would have
>done well for my case, but I am very happy with the choice I made for
>Albatross. Session management is a snap. :)

Obviously, you didn't have an opportunity to review JOTWeb because it
didn't exist 5 weeks ago...  I do agree that separating the presentation
and the logic is a big win.  Session management is an important thing,
that's why Sessions and Forms are the first two things that I built for
the JOTWeb library.  First was forms and good validation, because
sessions are generally created and managed using forms.  ;-)

I'm quite happy with how they turned out...  The Python code for
implementing Sessions in JOTWeb, including signing up, logging in, and
logging out can be done in 5 lines of Python.

Sean
-- 
 But I woke up when somone slammed the door so hard I fell outta bed
 screaming "Mama's little baby loves shortnin' bread".  -- Aerosmith
Sean Reifschneider, Member of Technical Staff <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com, ltd. - Linux Consulting since 1995.  Qmail, Python, SysAdmin




From jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Tue Jun  3 03:40:42 2003
From: jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:40:42 +0200
Subject: Exception - how to ignore it ?
Message-ID: <bbhjdr$ave$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>

Hi,

is it possible for an exception handler
to just e.g. print something and set some
global flags but then to have the script
continue just after the statement which
raised the exception?

Thanks for a hint,

Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany




From scott.daniels at acm.org  Fri Jun  6 15:04:25 2003
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:04:25 -0700
Subject: Efficient data flow between orthogonal C extensions?
In-Reply-To: <slrnbdsl66.21h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
References: <slrnbdsl66.21h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <3ee0e5b1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:

> I'm about to write a component-based data flow program, and I'm
> pondering the design, partly when it comes to efficiency. Basically,
> the system will instantiate a set of objects, set up in a directed
> network-like structure, and they will pass data among themselves in a
> stream-like fashion.
> ... However, I have one addition requirement: If one object is 
 > passing data to another, and both are written in C, the data passing
 > should be as efficient as possible....

Have you tried looking into ctypes?  You can declare C structure
types on the python side, populate them and even call C functions
whith their addresses from Python.  I have not, however, tried
to do this myself (no need yest); there might be gotchas.




From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Thu Jun 12 18:03:40 2003
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:03:40 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Python Coredump on FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <bc9j7q$q2q$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <mailman.1052940442.4968.python-list@python.org>
 <ba0bk8$s1i$04$1@news.t-online.com> <0pCdnbUTkYU6W16jXTWcow@speakeasy.net>
 <ba0pcs$9vi$0@216.39.172.122> <ba0v60$71a$03$1@news.t-online.com>
 <mailman.1053034886.23483.python-list@python.org> <ba1vj6$j16$02$1@news.t-online.com>
 <ba34j1$18o$0@216.39.172.122> <badnoh$t0e$04$1@news.t-online.com>
 <mailman.1053878763.24409.python-list@python.org> <bc4qh8$mp7$03$1@news.t-online.com>
 <mailman.1055339538.2010.python-list@python.org> <bc9j7q$q2q$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20030613080009.J1835@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Harald Schneider wrote:

> OK .. this seems to work!

> "Andrew MacIntyre" <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag

{...}

> > You should be able to try the linuxthreads build out by:

I hope this means your failing sre samples now work too?

If so, that clearly points to an issue with FreeBSD's pthreads
implementation.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jun 20 14:59:26 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 14:59:26 -0400
Subject: 1== 1 is False?
References: <mailman.1056118300.27179.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcvlie$4bd$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1056118300.27179.python-list at python.org>,
delphiro  <delphiro at zonnet.nl> wrote:
>
>If I print out the values I get something like 2.260212 <= 2.260212 and
>2.260212 >= 2.260212 is NOT true.

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node14.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From chrismoll at chrismoll.homelinux.org  Wed Jun 11 14:34:47 2003
From: chrismoll at chrismoll.homelinux.org (Christian Kaenzig)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:34:47 +0200
Subject: list.remove(): bug ??
In-Reply-To: <bc7ql8$72a$1@demo2.univ-lyon1.fr>
References: <bc7ql8$72a$1@demo2.univ-lyon1.fr>
Message-ID: <200306112034.47565.chrismoll@chrismoll.homelinux.org>

On Wednesday 11 June 2003 19:52, Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> here is a very simple script:
>
> liste = ['foo1' , 'foo2', 'foo3', 'foo4', 'foo5' ]
> for i in liste:
>    if i == 'foo2':
>      liste.remove( i )
>    else:
>      print i
>
>
> But the result is:
>
> foo1
> foo4
> foo5
>
> How should I do to still print 'foo3' ??

By not modifying the list you are iterating over !

In your example, foo3 is not displayed because it takes the place of foo2 (2nd 
place) when it is removed. That way, the next element after foo2 is foo4 
(that is now on the 3rd place) and foo3 is skipped.

A simple way to iterate over a copy of the original list is:

for i in liste[:]:
    ...

I'm not a Python guru, so correct me if I'm wrong or incomplete.

Hope this helps,

Chris





From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Thu Jun  5 16:51:40 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:51:40 -0400
Subject: Twisted Panglossia
References: <u65nk5x8p.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com> <mailman.1054749788.8638.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1054830612.3231.python-list@python.org> <w/43+kKkXUlb092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list@python.org> <slrnbdv8vl.ktj.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <Z2ODa.4570$IR1.540856@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Dave Benjamin" <ramen at lackingtalent.com> wrote in message
news:slrnbdv8vl.ktj.ramen at lackingtalent.com...
>
> A search for "Pollyannaishness" on Google returns 3 results. Merriam
Webster
> offers no definition. Care to elucidate this obfuscation? =)
>
Pollyanna
SYLLABICATION: Pol?ly?an?na
NOUN: A person regarded as being foolishly or blindly optimistic.
ETYMOLOGY: After the heroine of the novel Pollyanna, by Eleanor Hodgman
Porter (1868-1920), American writer.

from uk.culture.language.english
"Eleanor Porter's "Pollyanna" describes a sentimental optimist."

"A wide-eyed (meaning naive or child-like) optimist"





From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Wed Jun  4 22:18:12 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 02:18:12 GMT
Subject: system event viewer help
In-Reply-To: <bblj3u$2t7$1@galaxy.us.dell.com>
References: <bblj3u$2t7$1@galaxy.us.dell.com>
Message-ID: <ELxDa.5266$7E.59802@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

junk at aol.com wrote:

> When I run this script instead of giving me information from my System
> log it pulls information from my Application log.  I'm sure I'm missing
> something simple but I cant seem to get it to work no matter what I do.
> 
> 
> import win32evtlog, win32evtlogutil
>     win32evtlog.OpenEventLog(None, "System")
> win32evtlog.EVENTLOG_BACKWARDS_READ|win32evtlog.EVENTLOG_SEQUENTIAL_READ
>     print "Event Viewer System log"
>     def CheckRecord(record):
>         if str(record.EventType)=="2":
>             print "Have Warning for %s written at %s" % \
>             (record.SourceName, record.TimeWritten.Format())
>         elif str(record.EventType)=="1":
>             print "Have Error for %s written at %s " % \
>             (record.SourceName, record.TimeWritten.Format())
>     win32evtlogutil.FeedEventLogRecords(CheckRecord)

You must also pass the "log name" to FeedEventLogRecords.

Mark.




From beliavsky at aol.com  Wed Jun 18 12:15:15 2003
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 09:15:15 -0700
Subject: use member functions to access data in Python classes?
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0306180815.75869d6f@posting.google.com>

In C++, it is generally recommended to declare the data within a class
private and to access the data using member functions. Do experienced
Python programmers usually use member functions to access data within
classes, or do they access the data directly?



From sean at datamage.net  Fri Jun  6 22:06:08 2003
From: sean at datamage.net (Sean Legassick)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 04:06:08 +0200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org>
 <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <spzb7vBQiU4+EA22@bamboo.datamage.net>

In message <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf at budvar.future-i.net>, Ed Avis 
<ed at membled.com> writes
>    def f:
>      print 'hello'
>    x = f
>
>f is an expression, yet it 'contains' a statement.  Couldn't the same
>kind of containment be allowed for lambdas?

f might well be an expression, but surely the 'def f:' is a statement 
with an accompanying suite. It's a kind of assignment statement.

-- 
Sean K. Legassick
sean at datamage.net
         informage - http://informage.net - mouthing off from the fairest cape





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Jun  6 10:16:09 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:16:09 -0400
Subject: Hardware take on software testing.
References: <2ae25c6b.0306060450.78e988f9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aZydnefodKyNPn2jXTWcqg@comcast.com>

"Paddy McCarthy" <paddy3118 at netscape.net> wrote in message
news:2ae25c6b.0306060450.78e988f9 at posting.google.com...
> I ask because I value the view of Pythonistas

What was your question?

TJR





From walter at livinglogic.de  Mon Jun  2 06:12:52 2003
From: walter at livinglogic.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Walter_D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 12:12:52 +0200
Subject: has anyone implemented perl's HTML::Element and related modules
 for python?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054389587.14967.python-list@python.org>
References: <slrnbdffq3.em1.wobh@helium.barsoom> <Tf1Ca.21848$jp.320951@twister.southeast.rr.com> <mailman.1054389587.14967.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1054548760.128196@homer.tmt.de>

Jack Diederich wrote:

> On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 12:30:43PM +0000, Tom Bryan wrote:
> 
>> [...]
>>>From a quick look at CPAN, it looks like that's a way to represent an HTML 
>>doc as a collection of objects...probably  using some sort of Composite 
>>Pattern.  If that's what you're talking about, I think that  HTMLgen is 
>>probably similar
>>http://starship.python.net/crew/friedrich/HTMLgen/html/main.html
> 
> Less of a DOM but maybe what you are looking for is HyperText
> http://dustman.net/andy/python/HyperText/
> 
> It is used like
>   from HTML import *
>   A(IMG(border = 0, src = 'images/off.gif'), href = 'off.html')
> 
> Fairly simple, I don't do anything complicated w/ HTML so I like it.
> It also throws a fit if attributes aren't in the HTML4.0 spec (which most
> of the time means you made a typo).

You might also take a look at XIST (available at
http://www.livinglogic.de/Python/xist/),
which uses the same basic principles (HTML elements as Python classes),
but is XML based and is still actively maintained.

Bye,
    Walter D?rwald




From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jun 21 02:47:36 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:47:36 -0700
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3EF3FF88.23EA506D@alcyone.com>

Van Gale wrote:

> Well guess what, it happens.

The other platforms don't handle different end-of-line sequences when
the operating system counts on it, either.  This really has nothing
specific to do with Unix.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Success and failure are equally disastrous.
\__/  Tennessee Williams



From j.vanrooij_at_e-quest.nl  Tue Jun 10 06:38:13 2003
From: j.vanrooij_at_e-quest.nl (Joost van Rooij)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:38:13 +0200
Subject: saving a excel sheet as a csv file
Message-ID: <3ee5b556$0$49116$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Hello,

I would like to save an Excel file to a csv file, which works nicely using
com, but I can't seem to find out how to be able to select a particular
sheet.

This code converts all right, but the selecting the right sheet won't
work...

from win32com.client import Dispatch

def xl2csv(source, destination, sheet):
    xl = Dispatch("Excel.Application")
    xl.Workbooks.Open(source)
    xl.Sheets.Select(sheet)
    xl.ActiveWorkbook.SaveAs(destination,FileFormat= "6")
    xl.Workbooks(1).Close(0)
    return

xl2csv("d:\\file.xls", "d:\\file.csv", "Sheet2")

Any help would be very much appreciated....

grtz Joost





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun 11 14:38:50 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:38:50 -0600
Subject: feature request: mul
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0306110833.24b998cd@posting.google.com>; from mis6@pitt.edu on Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 09:33:33AM -0700
References: <2259b0e2.0306110833.24b998cd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030611123850.G1157@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Michele Simionato:
  [...]
> At the present, instead of
> 
> if condition[0] or condition[1] or ....  or condition[42]:
>     dosomething()
> 
> I can use (using a comment to make crystal clear what the code is doing)
> 
> if sum(condition): # multi_or
>    dosomething() 

Imho this is an abuse of sum().  Note that it depends on exactly
which true and false values are used:

    >>> condition = [1, -1]
    >>> if condition[0] or condition[1]:
    ...     print 'foo'
    ... 
    foo
    >>> if sum(condition):
    ...     print 'foo'
    ... 
    >>> 

This kind of thing could make for subtle bugs if you get into the
habit of thinking of 'sum(L)' as a logical instead of an
arithmetic operation.

(If we had a boolean type which was unrelated to ints, and that
type had __add__ and __mul__ implementations which fit with
boolean algebra, and ints and booleans could not be added without
explicit conversion, then I'd be happy with using sum() on a list
of booleans.  But this is not the case.)

Another, much more minor, matter: sum() doesn't short-circuit.  I
don't imagine this would matter unless len(condition) is quite
large.

  [...]
> if mul(condition): # multi_and
>    dosomething()

If a mul() existed, this would be less prone to bugs than the
corresponding use of sum(), but it's still not a reliable way to
rewrite the series of ands; for example, consider
    condition = ['foo', '']

  [...]
> Apart for boolean algebra, I think a 'mul' with
> the signature
> 
> mul(iterable, start=1)
> 
> would naturally complement 'sum'. Moreover, 
> the implementation would be trivial and I don't 
> see why we should not have it.

It would naturally complement 'sum', though I wonder whether
'product' wouldn't be a better name.  ('mul' is parallel to 'add',
not 'sum'.)

I'm not sure it's commonly enough needed to deserve a built-in,
though.  If sum, min and max get moved out to a module, I'd
certainly be in favour of a 'product' function too.  But in no
case would I want to use these functions for boolean algebra.

  [...]
-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Our analysis begins with two outrageous benchmarks."
  -- "Implementation strategies for continuations", Clinger et al.




From benoit.besse at club-internet.fr  Thu Jun 19 20:49:30 2003
From: benoit.besse at club-internet.fr (Benoit BESSE)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 02:49:30 +0200
Subject: Convert a date to an NTP time
Message-ID: <3ef25a1a$0$14312$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

Hello,
I have date and time. Il would like tout convert it into a NTP time.
Thnaks for your code.

BB





From noam at work2you.net  Sat Jun  7 03:05:18 2003
From: noam at work2you.net (Noam Cassif)
Date: 7 Jun 2003 00:05:18 -0700
Subject: Find & Replace in Zope
Message-ID: <425a7ca0.0306062305.efd326e@posting.google.com>

Hi All,

Tring to find a sign in a string and replace it by "" (nothing)
I didnt find the command for that.

any suggestions ?

thanks in advance.

Noam.



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jun  9 07:22:41 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:22:41 +0200
Subject: Why is lambda so slow?
In-Reply-To: <cb7ba330.0306090311.4f6f0b73@posting.google.com>
References: <cb7ba330.0306090311.4f6f0b73@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE46E01.3070107@ghaering.de>

anson wrote:
> Dear people,
> 
>     What's the reason of lambda being so slow?

Compared to what? A def?

Also, please supply an example snippet where you think lambda is slow.

-- Gerhard




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun 25 17:38:51 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:38:51 +0200
Subject: sets.filter?
Message-ID: <20030625213851.GA4940@nl.linux.org>

Hi,

would it be a good idea to add a .filter() method to a set object,
which behaves like the builtin filter() but resulting in a set?
I often see myself doing sets.Set(filter(f, someset))... Would this
be a good addition to sets.Set?

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
2. If any one bring an accusation against a man, and the accused go to
the river and leap into the river, if he sink in the river his accuser
shall take possession of his house. But if the river prove that the
accused is not guilty, and he escape unhurt, then he who had brought the
accusation shall be put to death, while he who leaped into the river shall
take possession of the house that had belonged to his accuser.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Thu Jun 19 15:10:54 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:10:54 +0000
Subject: (newbie)list conversion problem
References: <bcsc56$9k0$1@sunce.iskon.hr>
Message-ID: <3EF20ABE.9050601@removeme.free.fr>

Boris Genz wrote:
> Ok, I know this problems proabably make you laugh, but I'm in learning
> process:)
> I want to translate list of strings into identical list of integers. To
> clear things up, here is an example:
> I want this list: ['7659', '33', '454', '445'] to change in something
> like this: [7659, 33, 454, 445].
> I'm sure this is possible,
Of course

> and here is what I tried:
> x = ['7659', '33', '454', '445']
> for elements in x:
>   group = []

Here you rebind 'group' to an empty list in each turn of the loop...

>   group.append(int(elements))
> 
> and I got gibberish:) 

I guess you have something like group => [445] ?

> I'm obviously doing something wrong. Can you help
> me please, I appreciate any help...
> 

Have you tried :
group = [int(item) for item in x]

HTH
Bruno Desthuilliers




From mail at manuelmgarcia.com  Sun Jun 15 23:43:12 2003
From: mail at manuelmgarcia.com (Manuel M Garcia)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 03:43:12 GMT
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com> <84fc4588.0306112339.10a4012b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055460443.2394.python-list@python.org> <dnjkevkeo3evk31jdnmtcclmth8g9otmh9@4ax.com> <mailman.1055554178.13347.python-list@python.org> <ca0levgibttm6bgpn3l7fjjg1h1e6qfuim@4ax.com> <mailman.1055601206.30050.python-list@python.org> <mhomev4n2lolc0sb9id8m9ul463vn2pn5b@4ax.com> <slrnbeph1a.ecd.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net>
Message-ID: <82fqev0sa1ohl4hsdtcfncu4d7rsfcm57i@4ax.com>

On 15 Jun 2003 19:08:26 GMT, Andrew Walkingshaw
<andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk> wrote:

>> As long as you play by the computer's rules, error is not much of a
>> problem.

>> If you get your
>> algorithms from books, you can trust they will be stable.

>I have this Polak-Ribiere conjugate gradients minimization algorithm
>I'd like to sell you, in that case...

I know just enough numerical analysis to get into trouble... ;-)

Manuel




From eat at joes.com  Thu Jun 26 23:25:17 2003
From: eat at joes.com (Jason Kratz)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 03:25:17 GMT
Subject: stupid question about os.listdir
In-Reply-To: <slrnbfndia.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
References: <MTNKa.2930$BM.1845254@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <slrnbfnc0n.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <wwOKa.3311$BM.1852863@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <slrnbfndia.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <xOOKa.3559$BM.1856894@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

Ben Finney wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 03:06:04 GMT, Jason Kratz wrote:
> 
>>Ben Finney wrote:
>>
>>>Please reduce the problem to a simple script
>>
>>Ben...I tried the above in a new script file (with print os.listdir)
>>and it works as I thought my other should.   Which means i'm doing
>>something wrong when passing the path in to my function but I'm not
>>sure what.  ugh.
> 
> 
> Congratulations!  You've learned an immensely valuable debugging
> technique:  Reduce the problem behaviour to the *minimum necessary code*
> to reproduce the problem; otherwise, you're searhing in code that, it
> turns out, has absolutely no bearing on the problem.
> 
> (This leads, in turn, to the principle that writing less code in the
> first place leads to fewer bugs -- but that will come naturally as you
> learn Python :-)
> 

aha!   I found it!   its the call to os.path.isdir.   I'm not passing it 
a real pathname....just a string.  I need to set my entries in my dir 
list as real pathnames (ie: with the slashes)...not just the text. 
question is how ;)




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jun 29 07:58:40 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 13:58:40 +0200
Subject: Fast CGI Vs Java Application Servers
In-Reply-To: <yw1xn0g116gq.fsf@fruxo.e.kth.se>
References: <kAxLa.592$_I3.34571@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3efec309$0$49100$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <yw1xn0g116gq.fsf@fruxo.e.kth.se>
Message-ID: <3efed46f$0$49115$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

M?ns Rullg?rd wrote:
> Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> writes:
> 
> 
>>>How does FastCGI compare against java Apps running in java app
>>>servers like TomCat, Sun One, WebLogic and WebSphere?
>>
>>
>>A (fast)CGI program compared to the actual Java program may not be
>>much of a difference, depending on the program of course. What is
>>a *huge* difference is that the Java app is running inside an
>>*application server*. A (J2EE) Application Server provides a
>>rich environment on which to base your scalable enterprise applications:
>>- security
>>- connectivity
>>- scalability (performance, clustering)
>>- maintainability / managability
>>- error reporting/logging
>>- component based (EJBs)
>>- database connectivity and object persistence
>>- transactions
>>- ...
> 
> 
> Someone mentioned buzzwords elsewhere in this thread.

Very true ;-)

But the fact remains, that you get the above mentioned things
in one way or another when using an application server.
Wether you *need* them is a totally different matter.
As somebody else pointed out, if what you do now works for you,
don't fix what's not broken...

>>All of these are standardized in some way (as part of J2EE).
>>In theory you can move your J2EE application to a different
>>environment running on a different vendor's app server without
>>much sweat.
> 
> 
> That is, after you spent three weeks trying to figure out the correct
> classpath, if one even exists.

That's why I said "in theory".
Classpath issues are the least of your problems.
(and really should not take you more than an hour to figure out).

>>You don't have any of this readily available when writing (fast)CGI
>>applications; you have to implement all of these yourself.
> 
> 
> Hey, it could be fun.

I cannot imagine how it can be fun to design, build and test your
own XA transaction layer or object persistence.

But, for simple web applications, it *is* fun to build them from
the ground up. You learn a lot by doing so.

--Irmen de Jong




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sat Jun  7 20:30:39 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 18:30:39 -0600
Subject: zip broken?
In-Reply-To: <586599923.20030607231905@poczta.onet.pl>; from imbaczek@poczta.onet.pl on Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 11:19:05PM +0200
References: <586599923.20030607231905@poczta.onet.pl>
Message-ID: <20030607183039.A2509@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Marek "Baczek" Baczy?ski:
> I found a behaviour of zip() which I don't like -- it hangs on
> infinite generators. [...]

Well, yes.  zip() returns a list; obviously it must gather all the
items and put them in the list before returning it.  Calling it
"broken" because it can't build an infinite list is a bit silly.

If you want a zip which returns an iterator (and which can be used
with infinite sequences), then see itertools.izip (new in Python
2.3).

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                     staschuk at telusplanet.net
Receive them ignorant; dispatch them confused.  (Weschler's Teaching Motto)




From jfabiani at yolo.com  Sun Jun 15 12:18:45 2003
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (John Fabiani)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:18:45 GMT
Subject: [General lang] how to call a parent
Message-ID: <F%0Ha.261$WW3.30765151@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

I'm a newbie to the Python world but not programming.  In the Visual Foxpro
world we have the concept of ?parent?.   I normally use  it to set
properties of a custom control as in ?parent.background.color = blue?.  
The parent in this case is a container.  In the VFP world we have
?thisform, this, and parent?  and all class methods are run unless
overwritten by the child class.  Anyway, I'd know how to call the parent of
an object.  BTW if I'm all wrong with this idea would someone explain why!

TIA
John
-- 
John Fabiani



From claird at lairds.com  Thu Jun 19 14:52:52 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:52:52 -0000
Subject: Is python good for making database work short?
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vf41k4hbvrek82@corp.supernews.com>

In article <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095 at posting.google.com>,
Steve <stevesusenet at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 		.
> 		.
> 		.
>One part of the problem involved copying tables from one database on
>one server, to another database on another server.
>
>To do it in Java would have been a bazillion lines of code.
>
>I would have had to written code to:
>
>1. connect to the parent database
>2. a sql statement to get the data
>3. intermediarly store the results
>4. close the parent connection
>5. open the connection to the child database
>6. a sql statement with 50 column names to create a blank table
>7. code to transfer the stored data into the new table
>8. close the connection
> 		.
> 		.
> 		.
I have a tangential question; it doesn't have to do with
FoxPro or Python.

In what sense does Java coding require 4., above?  Most
specifically, do you believe that the first connection
must be closed before opening the second?  I suspect I
misunderstand what you're really intending.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From gh at ghaering.de  Sat Jun  7 09:45:02 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 15:45:02 +0200
Subject: Factorials
In-Reply-To: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01>
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01>
Message-ID: <3EE1EC5E.9000303@ghaering.de>

Rogue9 wrote:
> Pardon me but could anyone enlighten me if python2.2 has a math function
> to call to do factorials of integers?

It has not.

> If not then is there a code snippet
> for doing such a thing available?I tried to write some code for this
> myself but with little success.

Enter the words 'python' and 'factorial' into the search field 
http://google.com/ to find code that does this.

The recursive form is pretty much a direct form of the methematical 
definition of the factorial:

def fkt(n):
     if n == 0:
         return 1
     else:
         return n * fkt(n-1)

If you're doing a lot with factorials, I think you should upgrade to 
Python 2.3 already, because it has an optimized multiplication for longs.

-- Gerhard




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Jun 20 14:43:52 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:43:52 -0400
Subject: Easiest Python Web board? (fwd)
Message-ID: <oX18+kKkXkXO092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

For my book site (http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/), I used a Perl script that my
host happened to have installed to let readers contribute suggestions,
post errata, etc.  (Matt Wright's WWWBoard).

However, now that the book is out, I think I can clear out the earlier
comments (I'll save them somewhere, but they are less relevant).  And
this also seems like a good time to move to a Python solution (it -is-
after all attached to a book about Python).

My main goal here is that I want to think about administering the
discussion board AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE.  I don't really care about
elaborate configurability, or multiple forums, or complex sorting on
criteria.  Just something where viewers can post simple comments, and
see what other wrote....  Oh, and something where it is really easy to
remove the posts from spammers who occassionally find the board and post
weird ads (I always seem to mess up the formatting when I delete them
from the HTML file in vim; but partially because of the slightly
cluttered HTML format used [lots of comments indicating where insertions
go]).

I know I could write something that showed off fabulous Python
programming principles.  But I don't want to do that now...  I'd like my
whole effort to consist of:

    % wget ftp://some.path.to/fooboard.tgz
    % tar xvfz fooboard.tgz
    % python2.3 setup.py install

Beyond that, I have to start thinking... yeack!  It does, however, have
to be able to work with plain CGI, no custom Twisted or Zope server, nor
even fast_cgi (actually, that might be on the host, but I haven't looked
into it)..

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------





From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Jun  9 18:56:07 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 23:56:07 +0100
Subject: simple, old-style graphic  ?
References: <tg2Fa.16464$Fr5.341330@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <87fzmi7tdk.fsf@pobox.com>

"Alessandro de Manzano" <demanzano at playstos.com> writes:
[...]
> For educational purposes I'ld find a Python module (Windows platform) to
> draw simple 2D graphic (even 3D if possible, but is not a requirement)
[...]
> As last resort I thought about some OpenGL module but I would really prefer
> something easier and simpler.
> 
> Have you some idea ?

Never used it so I might be way off, but how about vtk?

http://www.imaging.robarts.ca/~dgobbi/vtk/vtkpython.html


John



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Jun 17 00:33:54 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 04:33:54 GMT
Subject: Looking for a (very) small http proxy in Python
References: <3eee1c7b$0$5407$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3eee204f$0$49108$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3eee254b$0$5388$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <Xns939D42C40C9F2JanC@213.119.4.94>

"adfgvx" <adfgvx at free.fr> schreef:

> Thank you but what I want to do is much simpler. I am using a web
> database where I have to login (legally !). When I login, they send me
> a cookie, that I have of course to send back with my http requests (I
> have written some python scripts to get all the pages I need). By now,
> I   use Proxomitron to scan the headers, get the good cookie, cut and
> paste in my scripts and so on... I want something more automatic ! Any
> idea ? 

cURL has automatic cookie handling, maybe you can use PycURL in your 
scripts?

<http://pycurl.sourceforge.net/>

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From eat at joes.com  Thu Jun 26 23:47:43 2003
From: eat at joes.com (Jason Kratz)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 03:47:43 GMT
Subject: stupid question about os.listdir
In-Reply-To: <3EFBBD5D.3969BF7A@engcorp.com>
References: <MTNKa.2930$BM.1845254@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <xoOKa.3259$BM.1850510@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <3EFBBD5D.3969BF7A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <z7PKa.3724$BM.1862159@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Jason Kratz wrote:
> 
>>def getdirs(path):
>>     os.chdir(path)
>>     for entry in os.listdir(path):
>>         if os.path.isdir(entry):
>>             dirs.append(entry)
>>
>>if I run this from the command line on linux with 'python backup.py' it
>>works *if* I have os.chdir in there.  if I comment it out it doesnt list
>>starting from the root dir...it starts in my home dir.
> 
> 
> This might mean you are not passing it an absolute path, but 
> instead a relative one.  Absolute paths (on Linux) are those
> which start with a / (forward slash).  Anything without that
> will start from the current directory only.
> 
> But without actual examples of which paths are failing, as
> Ben has asked for, we know nothing for certain.
> 
> Is it also possible that you are not having a problem with listdir()
> at all, but with the values you are passing to os.path.isdir()?
> You realize that os.listdir() returns names that are *relative*
> to the path parameter you give it?  So that if you then pass those
> to isdir() you will get nothing useful if you don't first do
> this instead? :
> 
>   entry = os.path.join(path, entry)
>   if os.path.isdir(entry):
>      dirs.append(entry)
> 
> -Peter

Peter-

Thanks much for the reply.  You are completely correct and I managed to 
work thru it myself (just finished right before I read your posting) and 
I actually had the exact code (aside from using a new var instead of 
reusing entry) you have just above (with the join).  Was going to post 
it and find out if that was the "correct" way of doing it ;)

This is my code:

import os
import os.path

def getdirs(path):
     dirs=[]

     for entry in os.listdir(path):
         fullpath=os.path.join(path,entry)
         if os.path.isdir(fullpath):
             dirs.append(fullpath)
     return dirs

print getdirs('/')




From m at moshez.org  Wed Jun  4 06:43:20 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 10:43:20 -0000
Subject: How do I obtain the filenames' encoding after os.listdir?
In-Reply-To: <20030604095003.GA8459@pedos.es>
References: <20030604095003.GA8459@pedos.es>
Message-ID: <20030604104320.13999.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz <gradha at titanium.sabren.com> wrote:

> I want to transform the strings to unicode objects so I can use them
> with pygtk, and the current process works ok for my machine. The
> question is how do I know the encoding of the filenames?  Currently
> I'm presuming latin1, but if somebody else uses a different encoding,
> how do I know which one?

Indeed how? Filenames, in UNIX, are just byte-streams (where the only
rule is that "/" and "\0" can't appear). There is no information about
encoding, so any information will be, of necessity, application-specific
and out-of-band.
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From JoeyTaj at netzero.com  Mon Jun  9 02:37:24 2003
From: JoeyTaj at netzero.com (Paradox)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 23:37:24 -0700
Subject: Editing a Binary File.
Message-ID: <924a9f9c.0306082237.222a46cf@posting.google.com>

I need to edit a few bytes in an existing binary file. Is this
possible with the Python file object or if not what is another way
that I can accomplish this?
I am running Python 2.2 under Windows.

I have tried using open(fileName, 'a+b') and open(fileName, 'w+b').

With a+ I have not been able to write anywhere but to the end of the
file and with w+ it destroys my file.



                            Thanks Joey.



From hyde at math.umn.edu  Wed Jun  4 16:24:33 2003
From: hyde at math.umn.edu (E. McKay Hyde)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:24:33 -0500
Subject: 64 bit python
In-Reply-To: <m3n0gxlli8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <701f25e6.0306040749.d649f7f@posting.google.com> <m3n0gxlli8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bblki1$80r$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> hyde at math.umn.edu (McKay Hyde) writes:
> 
> 
>>Can anyone help?
> 
> 
> What help do you need? Just recompile Python using a 64-bit C compiler.
> If you don't have a 64-bit C compiler, you'll need to buy one.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin

Sorry I should have been more specific.  I tried exactly what you 
suggest, but when I try to compile with the 64-bit C++ compiler (xlC_r 
-q64) I get an error on the first file:

xlC_r -q64 -bmaxdata:0x70000000 -c -DNDEBUG -O -I. -I./Include 
-DHAVE_CONFIG_H  -o Modules/ccpython.o ./Modules/ccpython.cc

"./Include/pyport.h", line 480.2: 1540-0859 (S) #error directive: 
"LONG_BIT definition appears wrong for platform (bad gcc/glibc config?).".
	
So, it appears that either LONG_BIT is defined incorrectly, SIZEOF_LONG 
is defined incorrectly or LONG_BIT is not supposed to equal 8 * 
SIZEOF_LONG in the 64-bit case.  Do you know which it is?

Thanks,

McKay




From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jun  4 05:25:07 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:25:07 +0200
Subject: smtplib and SSL
In-Reply-To: <3mmqdv0afmoq1m04if4ejjpk2rpgmvl95q@4ax.com>
References: <rj7qdv8ovhbgadaoenfi18hhelrlkaqgas@4ax.com> <mailman.1054681447.28648.python-list@python.org> <3mmqdv0afmoq1m04if4ejjpk2rpgmvl95q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EDDBAF3.9010701@ghaering.de>

Mike Prager wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 01:03:56 +0200, Gerhard H?ring
> <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Michael Prager wrote:
>>
>>>I have looked through Google groups and am not sure if this
>>>question has been answered before (by "Windows Python does not
>>>yet include SSL support.") [...]
>>
>>Install my _socket.pyd binary for Python 2.2.x 
>>http://pypgsql.sourceforge.net/misc/python-ssl.html to get SSL support 
>>on Windows.
>>
>>-- Gerhard
> 
> 
> Gerhard, thank you!  That works.
> 
> Perhaps you or someone else can help me a little further
> along.  When I try to login to the server with
> 
>     serv.login(uname, pwd)
> 
> I now get the error
> 
>   File "D:\python22\lib\smtplib.py", line 542, in login
>     raise SMTPException("No suitable authentication method
> found.")
> smtplib.SMTPException: No suitable authentication method
> found.

Please post the output of this script:

#v+
import smtplib

s = smtplib.SMTP("myserver")
s.debuglevel = 5
s.login("myusername", "mypassword")
#v-

> Being a user, not a TCP/IP programmer, I am baffled about what
> that means or what I can do to correct it.

You don't need to know TCP/IP. It sufficient if you know the SMTP 
protocol with the AUTH extension ;-)

-- Gerhard





From frank at chagford.com  Sat Jun 14 06:00:42 2003
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 03:00:42 -0700
Subject: MSW crash with <refcnt 0 at ...>
References: <246a4e07.0306120739.74dd977a@posting.google.com> <5JhGa.3746$GU5.51113@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <246a4e07.0306140200.326098b@posting.google.com>

Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message news:<5JhGa.3746$GU5.51113 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> Frank Millman wrote:
> > Can anyone explain what is going on? Thanks in advance.
> 
> It smells like a reference count bug in the ODBC module.  What win32all 
> version are you using?  I have no database to test against, but if you 
> can reduce it down to the absolute minimum code needed to crash, I may 
> still be able to find it.
> 
> If you have an old win32all or ActivePython, please check the date - a 
> quick check of the log for the ODBC module shows the following checkin:
> 
> revision 1.5
> date: 2001/06/18 06:57:21;  author: mhammond;  state: Exp;  lines: +7 -7
> Patches from Alex Martelli that solves some crashes under error conditions.
> 
> A later ODBC module may fix your problem.
> 
> Mark.

Thanks for the prompt reply, Mark.

I am not sure how to check the version of win32all, but the
installation program is win32all-150.exe, so it looks as if it is
version 1.5. I downloaded it late last year.

Here is a smaller version of my program that still crashes.

######################################################

import odbc
db = odbc.odbc('frank/Adminstrator')
# c = db.cursor()    # [1]

def update():
    c = db.cursor()  # [2]
    try:
        c.execute("insect into fmtest values ('F001','FGH
Ltd','Frank','1234567')")
        return ['success']
    except:
        return ['fail']

print update()

######################################################

Note the deliberate spelling error "insect" intead of "insert". This
is an easier way of ensuring that the insert fails.

Another clue - note the lines flagged [1] and [2]. The former declares
the cursor outside the function, the latter declares it inside. If I
run the program with line [1] active and line [2] commented out, the
error does not occur.

Let me know if I can supply any further information.

Many thanks

Frank



From neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk  Tue Jun  3 07:16:38 2003
From: neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk (Neil Padgen)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 11:16:38 +0000
Subject: Porridge 0.0
References: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <VYNCa.66$5L6.15@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <mailman.1054587904.7131.python-list@python.org> <l1he77mztp.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <slrnbdoi2k.che.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <bbi02n$if$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>

On Tuesday 03 June 2003 6:58 am, Ben Finney wrote:
> 
> Porridge 0.0 announced
> ----------------------
> 
> Due to the extreme readability and reusability of most Python code,
> a fork has been announced that will correct this rampant code
> quality: Porridge.
> 
> Building on the success of Python to date, Porridge will correct all
> the flaws that have been raised by opponents of Python.
> 
> Features of Porridge 0.0 will include:
> 
>   - All standard library functions will be duplicated at least three
>     times, in disparate modules, with different names and argument
>     lists
> 
>   - No indentation allowed; blocks are delimited by common consent
>   among
>     your programming peers
> 
>   - [... I'm sure others can fill in this feature list ...]
> 

Why bother to rewrite Perl though?

-- Neil



From ed at membled.com  Sun Jun  8 08:24:07 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 08 Jun 2003 13:24:07 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0306070837.789f2a9f@posting.google.com> <l13cilipsy.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <2259b0e2.0306080404.47f621bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <l1wufwg3ko.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:

>>A couple more anomalous cases could be cleaned up by adding dict.set
>>as a counterpart of dict.setdefault
>
>Am I mistaken or you want dict.__setitem__ ?

Yes, but ideally without the four underscores which seem to convey
'internal stuff, you're not really meant to call this'.  Perhaps I am
just too squeamish and good Python programmers have no objection to
writing code full of __x__().  I know I've seen some code by Guido
which looks like that.

I would however fix the documentation at
<http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesmapping.html> so that it
mentions __setitem__ and and other built-in methods.  At the moment it
lists a[k] = v, which AFAIK is syntactic sugar for the expression
a.__setitem__(k, v), but it does not list the __setitem__ method
itself.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From kvtor at yahooremove.com  Thu Jun 19 23:25:05 2003
From: kvtor at yahooremove.com (Pat)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:25:05 -0500
Subject: Looking for Info on installing Python and wxPython on a disk.
References: <veta0f2uce3ide@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <vf4v8qduvf2546@corp.supernews.com>

Thank you Matt and Lee for the suggestions. I will look more into it when I
have more time.

Pat





From junk at geekabytes.net  Tue Jun 10 10:45:46 2003
From: junk at geekabytes.net (Nielson Family)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:45:46 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <Z5CdnXqinb512XijXTWcqA@comcast.com>
References: <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org> <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <3EE25DE1.5010408@geekabytes.net> <20030608002729.A3370@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus> <3EE4A002.5000307@geekabytes.net> <mailman.1055177098.5381.python-list@python.org> <Z5CdnXqinb512XijXTWcqA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3EE5EF1A.4030903@geekabytes.net>

Terry,

I'm flattered you think my hack is  'clever' ;)

I am curious... don't you think that using the name that an anonymous 
function is assigned to within the anonymous function breaks the concept 
of an anonymous function?

-- Seth

Terry Reedy wrote:

>"Steven Taschuk" <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message
>news:mailman.1055177098.5381.python-list at python.org...
>  
>
>>    factorial = lambda x: x==0 and 1 or x*selfref.myself(x-1)
>>    
>>
>
>If the lambda is immediately name bound, the selfref contortion is not
>needed:
>
>  
>
>>>>factorial = lambda x: x==0 and 1 or x*factorial(x-1)
>>>>factorial(6)
>>>>        
>>>>
>720
>
>but it is a clever hack for when it is not.
>
>Terry J. Reedy
>
>
>  
>






From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Jun 10 17:20:21 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 23:20:21 +0200
Subject: read a unicode file
References: <mailman.1055173457.5922.python-list@python.org> <3EE4B35D.DE6D5012@hotmail.com> <3EE4D96F.5C89843C@hotmail.com> <m3u1ayijpy.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3EE5B88E.B11DA436@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <m3adcpiq96.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:

> However, it seems to me that in this situation, it should be
> straightforward.

It is; it would take only a few hours to implement. However, nobody had
these ours available yet, and found the problem important enough.

If you think you can do it, please submit a patch to
sf.net/projects/python.

Regards,
Martin



From blarson at crary.com  Fri Jun 27 17:57:40 2003
From: blarson at crary.com (Bradley D. Larson)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:57:40 -0500
Subject: Python and Databases
References: <babf5t$527$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <3EFCBDD4.CCADD318@crary.com>

I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up thus far.... I use it on multiple
databases and multiple platforms. I can move applications from one platform to
another without modifications.

I have found the most practical (and portable) method of accessing databases is
with the dbi/odbc that comes with python. Not as fast as direct access and it
requires you to load and set up an ODBC data source for each DB server and Access
DB but.... the benefits far outweigh the speed issues.

I have migrated entire applications from one DB to another without with minimal
code changes. As an application matures or the database grows I move the data to a
more robust database server.

I have situations where I am accessing four (4) different data base engines within
the same program without having to remember the different syntax for each database
driver... I access all of them in the same manner! That is probably the biggest
benefit. Less training, fewer bugs, and better understanding across multiple
developers.

The following example would work for any of the four databases listed.


import dbi, odbc

    fs_db = odbc.odbc('MSS-Flex Reports/mylogin/mypasswd')  # Proprietary Fourth
Shift Manufacturing DB

    mysql_db  = odbc.odbc('mysql_odbc_db/mylogin/mypasswd')  # web server, I don't
even know the location

    postgres_db  = odbc.odbc('postgres_odbc_db/mylogin/mypasswd') # my postgres
server

    access_db = odbc.odbc('access_odbc_db')  # one of our many MS Access databases
that seem to proliferate.


    cur = postgres_db.cursor()

    sql = "select field1,field2, field3 from mytable where field1 = 'myname';"
    cur.execute(sql)
    list = cur.fetchone()

    if list:
         for f1,f2,f3 in list:
             print f1,f2,f3

    cur.close()
    cur = None

    postgres_db.commit()
    postgres_db.close()
    postgres_db = None




Geraldo Lopes de souza wrote:

> Hi,
>
> ... you have just one choice: the mxODBC package.
> It looks like a great package , it worths the price, but with java for
> example, I get more much more ( in library terms) for less.
>
> ... To increase this the python community needs a standard ODBC library in the
> language.
>
> ... I know there is the DB API but we need ODBC.
> ODBC is the standard way of communicating with databases, if you create a
> database the first thing you need is an odbc driver to make the existing
> applications to talk with your database.
>
>
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From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Jun 10 17:10:55 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:10:55 +0200
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <6qwufu12ee.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <698f09f8.0306101302.688b7e52@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <just-7AE048.23105510062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <698f09f8.0306101302.688b7e52 at posting.google.com>,
 tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher) wrote:

> Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> wrote in message 
> news:<6qwufu12ee.fsf at salmakis.intevation.de>...
> > *compiled*?
> > 
> > Surely you mean "when the def-statement is executed."
> 
> ...
> 
> > >     In either case, the modified function is bound to the function
> > >     name at compile time.
> >
> > Again, I think you mean "when the def-statement is executed."
> 
> No, he probably means "compile time."  Python is compiled to bytecode
> separate from being execute, the the def statement is executed at
> compile time.

Nope:

  >>> for i in range(5):
  ...     def foo(a=i):
  ...         print a
  ...     foo()
  ... 
  0
  1
  2
  3
  4
  >>> 

The code is compiled once, sure, but the function object is created at 
runtime (a function object is just a thin wrapper around a code object).

Just



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Wed Jun 18 16:06:55 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 21:06:55 +0100
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com> <mailman.1055919632.16586.python-list@python.org> <rfVHa.105923$pR3.2320136@news1.tin.it> <yfs65n39z72.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <just-0D60BB.18081218062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <yfsof0v880w.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Just <just at xs4all.nl> writes:

> In article <yfs65n39z72.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk>,
>  Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote:
> 
> > > In 2.3, you can express this as dict(foo=1, bar='sean') without a
> > > need to define a function for the purpose.
> > 
> > Yuck! This seems like a really bad idea to me. This effectively makes it
> > impossible to specify any options (such as initial size, default value etc.)
> > at dict creation for dict subclasses or lookalikes or indeed future versions
> > of dict itself! Not a good tradeoff for minor syntactic sugar, IMO! If this
> > sugar is really needed, couldn't dict grow an appropriate classmethod instead
> > (e.g dict.with(foo=1, bar='sean))?
> 
> Using keyword args to build a dict is useful *now*; if dicts were to 
> ever grow extra constructions options, this could be still done with 
> class methods...

Not necessarily, since classmethods are strictly less powerful than
constructer calls (how do you propose to get 'initial size' to work with a
classmethod?). It also seems backwards to me: to my mind a constructor should
provide the full interface to instance creation and classmethods that also
return new instances should be useful specializations or sugar based on the
constructor, not the other way around.

Maybe I'm a bit blinkered, but right now I can't see how

    dict(foo=1, bar='sean')

is so much better/more convinient than

    {'foo':1, bar:'sean'}

that it justifies forcing people to learn a new redundant and less general
dictionary creation syntax that at least hinders customizing dictionary
instantiation like in

  counts = dict(default=0)
  for item in seq:
      counts[item] += 1

To get the first behavior you have to write a 1-line function, for the second
you have to subclass (and presumably incur a noticeable performance penalty).
Also the first precludes adding further constructor options, while the second
doesn't.


'as



From ken at hotmail.com  Sat Jun  7 22:36:59 2003
From: ken at hotmail.com (Ken)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:36:59 +1000
Subject: Excuting scripts question
References: <bbtq4o$d718f$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE26F88.C86E88BB@alcyone.com> <bbu0bo$df2cq$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE28A13.65FD29DD@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bbu7gc$ddp76$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3EE28A13.65FD29DD at engcorp.com...
> Ken wrote:
> >
> > > > Hi, I have a few scripts that ran well in Unix environment with:
> > > > #!/usr/local/bin/python
> > > >
> > > > What do I need to change to if I relocate these scripts on a Windows
> > > > environment? I have installed Python 2.2.3 in C:\Python22 directory.
> > >
> > Hi, I tried to run the script on IE (eg: http://192.168.0.2/test1.cgi)
but
> > it doesn't seem to load. (The script seems to load forever... but
ordinary
> > html files work)
>
> And 192.168.0.2 is your own machine?
Yes

 Do you have a web server
> running on it?
I installed IIS. (I am running Windows 2000 Pro)
I went into Control Panel/Admin Tools/Internet Information Services/Default
Web Site and go into properties. In the "Home Directory" tab, I went into
"Configuration". Clicked "Add", put in the path of python.exe executable
(C:\Python22\python.exe), extension "cgi" and pressed ok. Is this the right
way to do it? I am planning to run this Win2000 machine as a web server for
my cgi scripts that used to reside on a Unix machine. The script files and
HTML files are saved into the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory.

Thanks

IE does not actually execute CGI or Python or
> anything except *client-side* Javascript and Java.  If you want
> to execute CGI, you have to have a web server running, and the
> web server itself executes the CGI and returns its results to
> IE in the form of HTML.
>
> IE can handle HTML that is loaded from the local filesystem, but
> consider this to be a special feature, not something that means
> you can treat your hard drive exactly as you treat a web server.
>
> If you want to learn more, try looking at CGIHTTPServer in the
> standard library, or look into setting up another web server
> locally, perhaps ... Twisted.  :-)
>
> -Peter





From llothar at web.de  Thu Jun 12 06:30:10 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 03:30:10 -0700
Subject: Why not BOA GUI builder?
References: <KgQFa.769$nX2.90862759@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0306120230.5b0be043@posting.google.com>

John Fabiani <jfabiani at yolo.com> wrote in message news:<KgQFa.769$nX2.90862759 at newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>...
> Hi,
> I just found BOA and I'm wondering why it took so long to here about it. 
> Why doesn't everyone use BOA?  What are the negatives?  It appears to be
> roses just running the demo.  So before I spend lots of time on BOA I'd
> like to hear from the neighborhood.  TIA

I think the problem is that the current version is the first that run
out of the box. I never got the previous ones running - and yes i
installed the correct CVS version of WxWindows etc.

Problem Number One with all IDE's is the editor, if you don't like it
you use an IDE only if really really necessary. But when i must do
some GUI tasks i will have a look again at BOA.



From paul at boddie.net  Thu Jun 19 12:07:24 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 09:07:24 -0700
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <mailman.1055978535.23698.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0306190807.68c0b140@posting.google.com>

"Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055978535.23698.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> Personally, the only thing I have against the GPL is that in practical 
> terms it restricts the amount that code licensed under it is used.

Actually, a lot of software licences restrict the ways that the code
can subsequently be used or distributed. I interpret your usage of
"amount" in the above sentence to mean "range of potential licensing
situations" - ie. the GPL doesn't let you drop GPL-licensed code into
a closed source software product and then allow you to refuse to offer
the source code of that product to your customers. Therefore, some
licensing situations are off limits, but this isn't really news, and
in many cases it isn't objectionable either.

> BSD-style licenses allow far greater usage of code, and as a result such 
> code does get used more. I prefer that my code, where possible, be used 
> by as many people as possible. I also prefer to use the best possible 
> option for my code, but am often restricted at work from using the best 
> solution because it is under the GPL, and we have to protect trade 
> secrets and thus cannot release the source code to distributed projects.

I suppose it depends which kind of software projects you're involved
in. If your company/employer sells its software to various customers
and this software is the "competitive advantage" the customers pay a
premium for (with special ingredient X - your "trade secrets" -
included), then it might not be perceived as appropriate to license
that software under the GPL. One could, however, envisage a situation
where you do produce exactly that kind of software under the GPL: if
your customers are really your "strategic partners" who won't compete
with you in the software business, then it isn't in their best
interests to upload the offered source code to an FTP site somewhere
and let the world download it. (I wouldn't run a business on such a
strategy myself, however.)

As I understand it, GPL-licensed code really isn't a major risk in
many parts of the industry. For example, in situations where
consultants develop code for a customer in order to implement a
specialised system, the source code may well be the property of the
customer (as agreed in the contract) from the start, and even if this
isn't the case, the source code is probably delivered anyway - thus
the requirements of the GPL would be satisfied anyway. If the customer
isn't interested in selling that code on in binary form, then there
really is no problem in licensing the delivered system under the GPL,
provided the customer understands the obligations that they
subsequently have. (I can imagine that many customers don't want to
enter the software licensing business, so nobody "loses" through the
use of the GPL, contrary to the "arguments" put forward by certain
proprietary software monopolists.)

That's my interpretation of the terms of the GPL anyway. To an extent,
one can argue that a Python-style licence isn't always desirable, too,
at least in certain software maintenance situations, but that's
another story.

Paul



From robhall at ii.net  Mon Jun  2 12:31:12 2003
From: robhall at ii.net (Rob Hall)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 00:31:12 +0800
Subject: Python IO performance?
References: <m33civ37b2.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <mailman.1054370388.6981.python-list@python.org> <m3k7c61ktg.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3edb7b8e$0$15844@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

I have a Python program that iterates through a HUGE amount of data files.
Bassically, it performs calculations on a large data set, and it spits out
another data set just as big.

On my P3 it takes about 6 days to complete at a rate of around 12500 sets
per second, peaking at around 14000 sets/sec and a minimum of around 5000
sets/sec .  Obviously, it would be nice to speed this up a bit.

I have optimised the calculations, but the real performance bottle-neck is
IO.

I converted the program into Ada - Ada being very fast.  But there were no
real performance gains here.

When I read your post I decided to give it a go with perl.  It was a bit
tedious, as I haven't touched Perl for about 5 years!  I remembered why I
don't enjoy it - I find Python fun, but Perl just seemed like work!  But the
results were nothing short of excellent!!!

I have been running the new Perl algorithm for about 1/2 hr now and started
with around 18500 sets/sec!  However, over this time the rate has dropped to
about 17200, with a minimum of around 15300.

I'm currently downloading perl 5.8 to see if is any faster in this respec.

The other thing that has been nice is that the Perl script is a lot
friendlier to my other processes.  The Python equivalent tends to be a
resource hog and slows down my system terribly (its my desktop, and I must
use it for other things when the script is running).

All in all, I'm very happy with my perl script, but I would have had some
trouble writing it if I did not already have my python 'pseudocode' to work
from.  Yes, I agree that Python definitely needs some work done on IO.

Rob





From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Jun 27 22:05:31 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:05:31 -0400
Subject: GC time debug...
In-Reply-To: <20030628010805.GA28918@c1.neotonic.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEPBELAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[David Jeske]
> ...
> I wanted to know if it is acceptable to use Python's GC or not for
> this application. Pause times under 0.2s are non-ideal but
> acceptable. Longer than 0.2s isn't acceptable.

Python's GC is a hybrid scheme, and still uses refcounting for the vast bulk
of garbage collection in the vast bulk of applications.  A mark-sweep
variant is invoked from time to time only to reclaim unreachable cycles
(which refcounting can't touch).  The time for this is roughly proportional
to the number of live container objects plus the number of objects they
contain.  A generational scheme is also in play, so that as containers
survive collections, they're moved into older generations examined less
often.

> If I have a cycle, I'd rather leak the memory and let it clean up with
> the apache process dies and reforks().

Then you can begin your program with:

    import gc
    gc.disable()

Refcounting will continue to reclaim non-cyclic trash.  Objects in
unreachable cycles will leak.  If you know you have some dead time, you can
do

    gc.collect()

to force a collection.

Of course this can't guarantee you'll never see long pauses either, since,
e.g., a long linear chain of trash objects can take an arbitrarily long time
to reclaim when the refcount on the chain's head falls to zero.





From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Fri Jun  6 13:42:36 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:42:36 -0700
Subject: ANN: Self-guided instruction docs for Python
Message-ID: <bbqjp0$cfiqk$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>

I've been at work developing several classes for Python.

The first (Python 101) is an introductory course in Python
programming.  The second (Python 201, you probably guessed)
discusses several slightly advanced topics which have Python
solutions.

As preparation for these training courses I've written several
training documents.  When I started, they were intended as an
outline or syllabus for the course.  As time went on, they grew as
I filled in more notes and details.

Now, I believe, these training documents are usable stand-alone.
In part I'm announcing this in the hope that these documents can
be used for self-guided learning.

You can find these documents at:

    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/#training

It's still a "work in progress", but I believe there is plenty
there now to make it useful.

If you have a need for Python training, please contact me.

If you have suggestions for these documents, please let me know.

  - Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jun  3 12:55:12 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:55:12 -0400
Subject: Yield inside try...finally
References: <bbiisd$76k$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3EDCD2F0.38F6CFBF@engcorp.com>

Michael Sparks wrote:
> 
> Any comments on which of the two alternatives is "better"
> for whatever reasons would be appreciated. (I _am_ aware of Twisted
> BTW, this is part of a deliberate wheel reinvention :)

Twisted does "deliberate wheel reinvention" already, in many
different areas.  Why reinvent reinventing the wheel when others
already do it so well?  ;-)

-Peter



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jun  4 20:04:57 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:04:57 -0700
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.3999999999 ?
References: <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com> <mailman.1053017062.18647.python-list@python.org> <895e4ce2.0306021736.13c657a5@posting.google.com> <slrnbdo1i8.a95.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3EDC1074.CA05EC23@alcyone.com> <u60tdvcau9j1ftu7rh05bv4leioate5afn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EDE8929.64F4F7AF@alcyone.com>

Tim Rowe wrote:

> (It's true in the definition of real numbers mathematicians /usually/
> use, but there are alternative definitions available -- and used --
> when it's convenient to make the distinction)

If you're not using the normal definitions of real numbers, you need to
explicitly say so or no one's going to understand what you're getting at
... :-)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If you think you're free, there's no escape possible.
\__/  Baba Ram Dass



From exarkun at intarweb.us  Fri Jun 20 18:51:27 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:51:27 -0400
Subject: Classic vs New-style classes...
In-Reply-To: <001101c33779$bd5fab80$6401a8c0@wallace>
References: <001101c33779$bd5fab80$6401a8c0@wallace>
Message-ID: <20030620225127.GA6013@meson.dyndns.org>

On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 05:17:25PM -0500, Martin Chilvers wrote:
> I've searched the archives and docs for an answer to this one, but I'm
> still stuck...
> 
> >>> class Foo(object)
> ...	pass
> ...
> >>> Foo.__dict__['bar'] = lambda self, x: x * 2
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: object does not support item assignment
> >>> type(Foo.__dict__)
> <type 'dict-proxy'>
> 
> Any ideas?

    class Foo(object): pass
    Foo.bar = lambda self, x: x * 2
    print Foo().bar(10)

  Jp

-- 
In the days when Sussman was a novice Minsky once came to him as he sat
hacking at the PDP-6. "What are you doing?" asked Minsky. "I am training a
randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe." "Why is the net wired
randomly?" asked Minsky. "I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how
to play." Minsky shut his eyes. "Why do you close your eyes?" Sussman asked
his teacher. "So the room will be empty." At that moment, Sussman was
enlightened.
 




From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Mon Jun  9 18:03:54 2003
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 22:03:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Where is bobo?
References: <hP5Fa.109203$g92.2532246@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <slrnbea12a.rjf.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <hP5Fa.109203$g92.2532246 at news2.tin.it>, Franco Fiorese wrote:
>Hi all,
>do you know where is possible to find the latest original package of 
>bobo (Python ORB)?
>The link (http://www.digicool.com/releases/bobo/) referenced by several 
>pages on the web is broken...

There is a **tiny** Bobo-ish thing here:

  http://hetland.org/python/MinimalCGIPublisher.py

>Thanks
>Franco Fiorese

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland                "In this house we obey the laws of
http://hetland.org                 thermodynamics!"    Homer Simpson



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Fri Jun 27 05:33:20 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 19:23:20 +0950
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com> <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com> <bdb22c$psllg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EF933AA.C16ADFE5@alcyone.com> <bdcl1d$v43$0@216.39.172.122> <fef0a228.0306261125.62b83713@posting.google.com> <slrnbfn2eb.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <jg4ofv4n3aq4kc7toh1v22ontijkdu07hp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbfo50g.17e.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:46:49 +0100, Tim Rowe wrote:
> On 27 Jun 2003 09:33:23 +0950, Ben Finney wrote:
>>So, it was teletypes that needlessly preserved the CR and LF as
>>separate control operations
> 
> It wasn't needless.  A CR with no LF  was often used for overstriking,
> as a way of extending the rather limited character set.  'O'
> overstruck with '-' would make a passable \Theta, for instance..

Overstriking is amply catered for with the BS (BackSpace) control code.
For the "theta" example:  emit a 'O', emit a BS, emit a '-'.  In fact,
this method continues today in some *roff outputs, for bold or digraph
characters.  The CR is completely redundant for this purpose.

I maintain that the CR and LF were needlessly preserved as separate
operations, with no benefit.

-- 
 \     "Yesterday I parked my car in a tow-away zone. When I came back |
  `\                   the entire area was missing."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From theller at python.net  Tue Jun 24 10:56:59 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:56:59 +0200
Subject: Determine a NT service's executable name ?
References: <bd9ofl$m72$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <brwnfrr8.fsf@python.net>

"Harald Schneider" <h_schneider at marketmix.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> is there a possibility how to determine a services executable file name (and
> path) from within the service itself ?
>
> I need to create multiple services of the same application. The app needs to
> read a config file, which name depends on the name of the application's
> executable itself. So hardcoding it in the registry is no solution ...

sys.executable (although you should make sure that this returns the
right thing in the py2exe'd file)

win32api.GetModuleFileName(0)

Thomas



From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Fri Jun  6 13:57:32 2003
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (Joshua Marshall)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 17:57:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Postfix/Prefix Operators (++,--)
References: <mailman.1054878191.16140.python-list@python.org> <3EE05E36.40DF739F@engcorp.com> <bbq415$om3$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <3EE0B4D5.736EE894@engcorp.com> <bbqe21$l2h$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <3EE0D19C.7D7FFCA0@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bbqkmc$ku8$1@ginger.mathworks.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> Joshua Marshall wrote:
...
>> I wouldn't design ++ to error in this case:
>> 
>>   >>> c = 1
>>   >>> a = c++
>>   >>> a
>>   1
>>   >>> c
>>   2

> Except that that violates a fundamental aspect of Python, which while
> I can't describe it in the best technical terms as I don't ever work 
> at the compiler level, could be said as "you are rebinding a name (c)
> without using an assignment statement".

Agreed.  One reason I'm against this feature going into Python is that
I think the ability to rebind variables in expressions is a bad idea.

> I'm not sure whether there is ever a case where this is true in
> regular Python, and I suspect that if you were to attempt to
> implement this, it would require fundamental changes that would make
> Python not Python...  so I'm still confident there's "no chance of
> having it, and no reason to have it."

List comprehensions let you rebind a variable in an expression, so
there is some precedent for this:

  >>> c = 1
  >>> a = [c - 1 for c in [c + 1]][0]
  >>> a
  1
  >>> c
  2

but I'm not fond of list comprehensions either.



From manuelbastioni at tin.it  Sun Jun 29 18:38:22 2003
From: manuelbastioni at tin.it (manuel)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 22:38:22 GMT
Subject: To get all property of a class?
Message-ID: <yTJLa.273191$g92.6375448@news2.tin.it>

Exist a sintax like

import Foo
for property in Foo
    print property



?


My problem is to print all property values of various class,
without know the number and the type of properties.

Example. Print all property of class circle:
NAME = Foo
RADIUS = 10
SEGMENT = 15
FILL = 0
etc...

extract from

self.name = "Foo"
self.radius = 10
self.segment = 15
etc..

Thanks,

         Manuel Bastioni






From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Jun 24 17:30:13 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:30:13 -0700
Subject: XML
Message-ID: <1056490213.3ef8c2e522a3c@mcherm.com>

Roman Suzi writes:
> Is there any standard on examplar ennumeration?
> We all know foo and bar, but which are officially next?
> ;-)
 
Foo, Bar, Baz, Quux, ... [1]

But in Python we tend to use this one:

Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, ...    ;-)

-- Michael Chermside

[1] http://www.eps.mcgill.ca/jargon/jargon.html#metasyntactic%20variable





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Jun 26 04:13:48 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:13:48 +0200
Subject: Observer Pattern (if you got some spare time)
References: <3eee0283$1_1@news.vo.lu> <bddgp5$tce$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <bdg8o4$55l$1@main.gmane.org>

Patrick Useldinger wrote:

> following a previous thread on Patterns, I ended up reading the famous
> book by Gamma et al., and implemented a "kind of" observer pattern.
> If anyone has some spare time and some interest, take a look at:
>
> http://www.homepages.lu/pu/python.pubsub.py.html

oh.  that's a lot of code.  I'm beginning to suspect that the
approach I'm using is way too simple...

    http://effbot.org/zone/simple-observer.htm


Donnal Walter wrote:

> The Observer Pattern can be used for implementing Model-View-Presenter
> architectures. In this case, however, it would be more convenient to use
> weak references to observers so that when a GUI component is dismissed,
> it is *automatically* removed from the observer list.

is that really much of a problem?  it's not like the GUI component
won't know what model it's watching, or when the component it-
self is dismissed, right?

(just add a removeobserver(self) call to ui_handle_destroy, and
you're done...)

</F>







From mike at nospam.com  Tue Jun 24 18:40:59 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:40:59 -0700
Subject: parsers / lexers usable from Python and Java (and C++/C)?
References: <87brwnb1ay.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bdak5h$qhi$1@main.gmane.org>

John J. Lee wrote:
> Are there any parser / lexer generators useable from both CPython and
> Java?

PLY (http://systems.cs.uchicago.edu/ply/) implemented entirely in Python,
so it might be possible to use it from both implementations of Python.

You may look at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/LanguageParsing for
other tools.

Mike







From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sun Jun 22 10:51:38 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:51:38 GMT
Subject: newbie: good reasons for learning Python?
References: <3ef37a28$0$306$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <ZVLIa.468$hY1.37549@news20.bellglobal.com> <o1NIa.611$hY1.47591@news20.bellglobal.com> <JcI9+ks/KLAC089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <_njJa.306597$3n5.22662@news2.central.cox.net>

"Mel Wilson" <mwilson at the-wire.com> wrote in message
news:JcI9+ks/KLAC089yn at the-wire.com...
[...]
> Although
>
>     's'[:i != 1]
>
> is a cute way to generate the plural endings.
>

... in English

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Jun 25 17:11:56 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 17:11:56 -0400
Subject: Piping data into Python on the command line - Windows 2000
References: <8847f370.0306251228.2406f86c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <uadc5uajn.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

christianzlong at yahoo.com (Christian Long) writes:

> dir | readFromStdin.py        - Doesn't work on win2000
>                              IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor

I don't know if you're saying you have a problem with Komodo, or just
during your specific tests, but the above case (presuming that you're
running this from a standard Windows command, cmd.exe) is a bug in
Windows cmd.exe.  When trying to use I/O redirection and registered
file extensions to automatically find an executable, the redirection
doesn't work properly.  If you change this command to:

dir | python readFromStdin.py

it should work (replace "python" with the full path to your python.exe
if it isn't in your path).

Whether or not this affects Komodo's Run box depends on just how
Komodo starts up the child process.  It's possible that Komodo is just
executing cmd.exe and passing in its command, in which case supplying
a Python script directly may trigger the same bug as above (or it may
not since it's actually the stdin/stdout to cmd.exe and thus Komodo
that is being passed to the Python script).  If it doesn, then I
expect you'll need to be explicit about Python being the executable
you are running.  Either that or maybe write a wrapper batch file
which can contain the explicit reference to python, to avoid having to
type it into the Komodo Run box.

BTW, another alternative to your script would be:

    import fileinput

    for line in fileinput.input():
        print line,

which will work both with data on stdin as well as having filenames
specified on the command line if desired (also similar to how the Unix
sort command and many other Unix utilities work).  It also doesn't
need to bring all the input into memory before processing (although
you could get that with your prior script by using readline() rather
than readlines()).  The main drawback is that it's not the fastest way
to process lines, but its performance has gotten better in recent
Python releases due to general improvements in file I/O processing.

-- David



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jun 13 06:15:07 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:15:07 +0200
Subject: http connection via proxy server
References: <000001c33193$96e7c0f0$410100a4@utente65>
Message-ID: <bcc82k$5aj$1@main.gmane.org>

Luca Calderano wrote:

> I'm trying to connect to a web page via my proxy server
> using the following code
>
> ..............................
> import os
> import httplib
>
> os.system("Set %http_proxy% = \\xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:80")
> myurl = "securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/download/pages/US-N95.html"
> req=httplib.HTTP(myurl)
> req.putrequest("GET","/")
> req.endheaders()
> ................................

does this work better?

    import os
    import urllib

    os.environ["http_proxy"] = "http://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx:80"
    myurl = "http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/download/pages/US-N95.html"
    page = urllib.urlopen(myurl).read()

</F>







From donn at drizzle.com  Tue Jun 10 03:06:08 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:06:08 -0000
Subject: Error checking in Python
References: <mailman.1055190378.10420.python-list@python.org> <878ysa7rfn.fsf@pobox.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306100207500.1250-100000@linux.local>
Message-ID: <1055228767.185861@yasure>

Quoth BGM <no.spam at comcast.net>:
...
| A certain aspect of the replies interests me greatly: That if one does no
| type-checking, the function lends itself to previously unforseen
| generalization.... E.g. if the function were meant to multiply some
| number by 2: x = x * 2 in which case that is also valid even if x is a
| string! I wonder whether this phenomena is found to be useful in practice?
| Does anyone know?

Well, no - at least, probably no one is going to be able to give
you a quick answer to that one here.  My impression is that the
range of generalization suggested by your example is rarely very
useful.

On the other hand, there are a couple of string types, and that
range of generalization is clearly going to be useful - the same
function should work with strings and Unicode strings.  Likewise
for a couple of numeric types, sequences, etc.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jun 11 17:01:15 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 14:01:15 -0700
Subject: feature request: mul
References: <2259b0e2.0306110833.24b998cd@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055356409.24319.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306111301.3faf0f91@posting.google.com>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055356409.24319.python-list at python.org>...
> Quoth Michele Simionato:
>   [...]
> > At the present, instead of
> > 
> > if condition[0] or condition[1] or ....  or condition[42]:
> >     dosomething()
> > 
> > I can use (using a comment to make crystal clear what the code is doing)
> > 
> > if sum(condition): # multi_or
> >    dosomething() 
> 
> Imho this is an abuse of sum().  

I will not even try to say that this is not an abuse ;)

> Note that it depends on exactly
> which true and false values are used:
> 
>     >>> condition = [1, -1]
>     >>> if condition[0] or condition[1]:
>     ...     print 'foo'
>     ... 
>     foo
>     >>> if sum(condition):
>     ...     print 'foo'
>     ... 
>     >>> 
> 
> This kind of thing could make for subtle bugs if you get into the
> habit of thinking of 'sum(L)' as a logical instead of an
> arithmetic operation.

It is difficult to get in this habit since the name 'sum' makes clear
that you are summing numbers; I don't think it is really dangerous.
To me 'condition' is an iterable of predicates with values True or
False, I would not certainly consider condition=[1,-1] a good
candidate.

The point is that there is not a builtin multi_or/multi_and.
I am not advocating it, the use case base is too little for
two new builtins, IMHO. 

> (If we had a boolean type which was unrelated to ints, and that
> type had __add__ and __mul__ implementations which fit with
> boolean algebra, and ints and booleans could not be added without
> explicit conversion, then I'd be happy with using sum() on a list
> of booleans.  But this is not the case.)
> 
> Another, much more minor, matter: sum() doesn't short-circuit.  I
> don't imagine this would matter unless len(condition) is quite
> large.

Agreed.

>   [...]
> > if mul(condition): # multi_and
> >    dosomething()
> 
> If a mul() existed, this would be less prone to bugs than the
> corresponding use of sum(), but it's still not a reliable way to
> rewrite the series of ands; for example, consider
>     condition = ['foo', '']
> 
>   [...]
> > Apart for boolean algebra, I think a 'mul' with
> > the signature
> > 
> > mul(iterable, start=1)
> > 
> > would naturally complement 'sum'. Moreover, 
> > the implementation would be trivial and I don't 
> > see why we should not have it.
> 
> It would naturally complement 'sum', though I wonder whether
> 'product' wouldn't be a better name.  ('mul' is parallel to 'add',
> not 'sum'.)

You are right. 'product' would be fine for me.
 
> I'm not sure it's commonly enough needed to deserve a built-in,
> though.  If sum, min and max get moved out to a module, I'd
> certainly be in favour of a 'product' function too.  But in no
> case would I want to use these functions for boolean algebra.
> 
>   [...]

I understand your motivations; I also would use very rarely this construct.
BTW, I like that 'sum' is a built-in. 

                   Michele



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sat Jun 21 11:19:41 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:19:41 GMT
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org> <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbf8tsd.qc.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:54:50 +0100, Alan Kennedy wrote:
> So why is HTML the most widely used [electronic] document format in
> human history?

It isn't.  That award would go to 7-bit ASCII plain text.

Facetious?  No.

I know you meant some extra qualifier, such as "most widely-use document
_markup_ format", but that's not exactly relevant; XML is useful for
much more than mere document markup (easily-parseable structured data,
for one).  Plain text doesn't concern itself with markup, so this isn't
an issue for the format.

Or, if you meant "most widely-used document _presentation_ format",
that's not true; HTML for presentation is a perversion of the standard,
with dreadful incompatibilities between implementations, so it's not
"widely used" since any particular HTML document's presentation is not
rendered properly except for the narrow range of clients intended.
Plain text is preserved and rendered properly across a hugely wider
range of devices and client software than HTML.

Now, if your document requires more structure than lines of plain text,
but still needs to be interchangeable between different clients, then
some XML representation is a good candidate, for reasons already
discussed in this thread (easily-available, well-debugged, feature-rich
parsers and generators being the main attraction for me).

Plain ASCII text has had the crown for quite a while, though, by virtue
of getting there early, and being extremely simple and robust.  It also
has even *more* easily-available, well-debugged, feature-rich parsers
and generators; heck, most modern programming languages have them built
in.

-- 
 \     "He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let |
  `\           that fool you. He really is an idiot."  -- Groucho Marx |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  5 20:21:36 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 17:21:36 -0700
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0306051621.4913f765@posting.google.com>

Chuck <cdreward at riaa.com> wrote in message news:<m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0 at 4ax.com>...
> I've hit a stumbling block while trying to pick up Python. I've googled
> around, and I don't think I'm the first to have this question, but I haven't
> been able to find an answer that explains things for me.

You said you were familiar with C, so I'll try to explain this using C
code.

> def blah(arg):
>     arg.append(3)

is (roughly) equivalent to

void blah(list *arg) {
   arg->append(3);
}

In general, think of every variable (including function arguments) as
a pointer, and every "." as a "->".

> But it's not [pass-by-reference], because if I say "arg = None" inside the
> function, "v" is unchanged.

void blah(list *arg) {
   arg = NULL;
}

All Python assignment statements have the semantics of C's "lhs=rhs;"
and NOT "*lhs=*rhs;".



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Tue Jun 17 11:36:36 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 16:36:36 +0100
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3064b51d.0306170436.2b31f9e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <yfs1xxsn2bf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

beliavsky at aol.com writes:

> David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote in message news:<uwufmko7g.fsf at boost-consulting.com>...
> 
> SNIP
> 
> > I find that static typing makes a big difference for two things:
> > 
> >   1. Readability.  It really helps to have names introduced with a
> >      type or a type constraint which expresses what kind of thing they
> >      are.  This is especially true when I am coming back to code after
> >      a long time or reading someone else's work.  Attaching that
> >      information to the name directly is odious, though, and leads to
> >      abominations like hungarian notation.
> 
> I strongly agree with this. For numerical work, especially numerical
> linear algebra, having the compiler check types and the # of
> dimensions can detect many errors.

Have you compared developing with (i)python/Numeric to Fortran (I am not
saying you haven't, but I'd be curious to know)? If so, did you develop mainly
in a single interactive session or did you use edit/run cycles?

> 
> The beginning of the following Fortran 95 subroutine, for example,
> provides useful information both to the compiler and to a programmer
> trying to understand what it does:
> 
> subroutine solve_lsq_svd_rmse(aa,bb,xx,rmse,ierr)
> ! solve a set of least-squares linear equations and compute the rmse
> real     , intent(in)   :: aa(:,:) ! matrix of independent variables
> real     , intent(in)   :: bb(:)   ! vector of dependent variable
> real     , intent(out)  :: xx(:)   ! solution of least-squares problem
> real     , intent(out)  :: rmse    ! rmse of regression
> integer  , intent(out)  :: ierr    ! error flag


def solve_lsq_svd_rmse(aa,bb):
    """Solve a set of least-squares linear equations and compute the rmse.

    Parameters: 
      - `aa` matrix of independent variables 
      - `bb` vector of dependent variable

    Returns: A tuple consisting of the solution of the least squares problem
      and the rmse of regression.

    """
    aa, bb = asarray(aa), asarray(bb)
    assert rank(aa) == 2 and rank(bb) == 1 # likely to be superfluous
    [...]


> 
> In Python, to ensure that aa is a 2-D array and that bb and xx are 1-D
> arrays, you need to write some checking code, which will not be as
> clear as the above declarations IMO.  

Well, tastes might differ but I'd rather read the python version (chances are
I wouldn't even have to read it -- ``help(solve_lsq_svd_rmse)`` in the
interpreter would tell me what I need to know about it, provided it comes as
part of a respectable libarary and is likely to work).

> Even if you do this, the errors will be caught at run time, not compile
> time.

Typing the following into the interactive shell:

>>> 9 + "f"

will also produce a run-time rather than a compile time error (as it would in
say, Pascal -- where'd you'd have to write boilerplate code and compile it
first). Which form of feedback in this case you think is quicker and more
effective?

If you write and test your code interactively (of course also writing proper
unit tests) runtime errors provide in many cases better and more immediate
feedback than compiler errors in lesser languages such as C, especially since
the C catches only very few errors at compile time and gives about *zero*
error feedback at runtime (thus, the 9 + "f" example above (plus the
appropriate boilerplate code) compiles fine and without warnings under at
least one C compile I tried).


> 
> (Regardless of the language, you need to check that the # of rows in
> aa equals the # of elements in bb. This usually must be done at run
> time.)

No, you don't need to check everything regardless of language. Obsessive
compile time checks are so important in primitive languages like C(++) Fortran
because they fail catastrophically but often silently if something goes wrong.
A dynamically typed high level language like python typically won't. In most
cases if the number of rows doesn't match the number of elements, chances are
you'll get an appropriate error message, the same if you passed an argument of
the wrong type. Plus, chances are the statically typed version will be
artificially constrained in the input types it can deal with.

'as




From ady982 at ploiesti.astral.ro  Thu Jun 26 05:37:23 2003
From: ady982 at ploiesti.astral.ro (Catalin)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:37:23 +0300
Subject: Python executables?
Message-ID: <3EFABED3.4000502@ploiesti.astral.ro>

How can I make executables with python?
I found some utilities that claim they can do something like that like 
Installer and py2exe but they actualy pack the code in a huge arhive! 
This solves the problem of giving python programs to users who don't 
have python but doesn't solve the problem of the source "secrecy" 
(copyright).
And the programs also run much slower and become extremely big compared 
to a normal C++ program for example. I made a test and a 2 programs 
doing the same thing where 400 KB with C Builder (static linked) and 
2.80 MB with python+installer in an arhive packed with upx and 6.9 MB 
with py2exe(unpacked). And the speed difference was huge.
So can a python program become a "real" executable(I am refering both to 
windows and unix platforms)?
If this is imposible with python is it possible with jpython?





From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Jun 12 11:46:15 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:46:15 +0100
Subject: inheritance
Message-ID: <bca77e$aq2$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>

I'm in the process of subclassing some functionality of a class that was
getting a bit too big.  But a lot of the inherited functions (eg. __mul__())
return objects of the parent type.  Initially I had the following code...


class Table(table.NumTable):
    def __init__(self, values, variables, id = None):
        table.NumTable.__init__(self, values, variables, id)
        self.isBarnardised = 0
        self.isRandRounded = 0
        self.isConvRounded = 0


    def __mul__(self, other):
        res = table.NumTable.__mul__(self, other)

        return Table(res.values, res.variables)


But I have ended up with this ...


class Table(table.NumTable):
    isBarnardised = 0
    isRandRounded = 0
    isConvRounded = 0


    def __mul__(self, other):
        res = table.NumTable.__mul__(self, other)

        return Table(res.values, res.variables)


The questions I have are:

Is there any practical difference between the two?

Is there any alternative to explicitly overloading each of the parent class
functions that return a new instance?

Cheers.

Duncan





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jun 30 00:31:13 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 00:31:13 -0400
Subject: What am I doing wrong here?
References: <7sNLa.30264$Kg7.14786@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bdoeeh$qkb$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <7sNLa.30264$Kg7.14786 at nwrdny01.gnilink.net>,
Bill C. Wong <bcw at rave.ch> wrote:
>
>################################
>def func( s ):
>    s1, s2 = s.split( ' ', 1 )
>    try:
>        raise s1
>    except "aaaa":
>        print 'except "aaaa"'
>    except:
>        print 'except:'
>
>s = "aaaa "
>func( s )
>################################
>If I manually assign s1 with s1 = "aaaa", then it works fine! What am I
>doing wrong here?

Let me repeat and emphasize Gerhard's second post:

    DO NOT USE STRING EXCEPTIONS

String exceptions are informally deprecated (and have been since Python
1.5.2); they will likely be formally deprecated in Python 2.4; they will
disappear in Python 3.0.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Mon Jun  2 17:04:22 2003
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:04:22 +0100
Subject: Python get's a mention on University Challenge
In-Reply-To: <VYNCa.66$5L6.15@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <VYNCa.66$5L6.15@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200306022204.22827.phil@riverbankcomputing.co.uk>

On Monday 02 June 2003 8:55 pm, John Ochiltree wrote:
> Irmen de Jong wrote:
> > John Ochiltree wrote:
> >> Hi all, thought you may like to know that the UK TV programme
> >> 'University Challenge' of 2nd June has just had 'The Python
> >> Programming Language' as the answer to a question in a round about
> >> programming languages (the other languages were Pascal and Eiffel).
> >
> > What was the question?
> >
> > --Irmen
>
> "What object oriented scripting language was created by Guido Van Rossum
> at Stichting Mathematisch Centrum?" I think that's right, or more or less.

There was another bit that was something like "that has a connection with a 
popular 1970s BBC comedy show".

It should also be pointed out that the team of clergymen/women who were 
answering the questions got Pascal and Eiffel correct but didn't get Python. 
Maybe prayer should be added as a transport to Twisted?

Phil




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 24 05:57:25 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:57:25 +0100
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056387220.30017.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EF82085.3304831@hotmail.com>

Roman Suzi wrote:

> P.S. Just look at the neighboor thread:
> Subject: minidom toxml() not emitting attribute namespace qualifier

I feel the need to point out a couple of things in relation to this bug in
minidom.

1. The bug was fixed in minidom, but not in the base distribution.

2. Using namespaced attributes is a fairly sophisticated thing to do. I think
that anyone whose usage of XML was advanced enough to use namespaced attributes
would be very likely to have the excellent pyxml library installed, and thus
would never see the bug.

3. The latter is evidenced by the fact that no-one seems to be clamouring to
have the bug fixed in the base distribution. It's been there for at least 8
months, probably longer. But anyone whose use cases might trip-off the bug will
most likely be using pyxml.minidom.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From DDriver at covercraft.com  Mon Jun 16 14:21:25 2003
From: DDriver at covercraft.com (Driver, David)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:21:25 -0500
Subject: ftplib help
Message-ID: <5B880349CA70D4119B7500D0B74C62D9010F81AC@EXCHANGE>

I need to FTP to a site on a non standard port. so I break out with the
Global Module Index and look at the example in ftplib. It doesn't specify a
port option so I just include it with the host parameter. All looks well
until I execute the line and I get the following:

>>> from ftplib import FTP
>>> uid = 'myUserId'
>>> pwd = 'myPassword'
>>> srvr = '10.1.1.100:2109'
>>> f = FTP(srvr,uid,pwd)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in ?
    f = FTP(srvr,uid,pwd)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\ftplib.py", line 107, in __init__
    self.connect(host)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\ftplib.py", line 117, in connect
    for res in socket.getaddrinfo(self.host, self.port, 0,
socket.SOCK_STREAM):
gaierror: (7, 'getaddrinfo failed')
>>> 

Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to use a lower level protocol
interface? Any help is appreciated.




From combe.michel at 9online.fr  Wed Jun 25 06:17:47 2003
From: combe.michel at 9online.fr (Michel Combe)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:17:47 +0200
Subject: How to send an email with an attached file ?
Message-ID: <bdbspj$p8nl3$1@ID-181365.news.dfncis.de>

Hi all,

I need to write a program to send an email with an attached ascii file.

I tried the example using MIMEText given at 
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/email-simple.txt 
but this includes the ascii file *inside* the message. This is not what I 
want, I want it attached.

I then tried the example using MIMEMultipart given at 
http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel//lib/email-mime.txt
but this example does not run on my system (Python 2.2.1 on Linux). I 
receive a message :
ImportError: No module named MIMEMultipart 

Can someone help ? 
Thanks in advance

Michel Combe




From arivu at qmaxtest.com  Fri Jun  6 05:01:25 2003
From: arivu at qmaxtest.com (Arivazhagan)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 02:01:25 -0700
Subject: Problem with PyEval_CallObject .
Message-ID: <c8476101.0306060101.4c97df5b@posting.google.com>

Hi All,

In our Python Extension module we used PyEval_CallObject while calling
a python function from C.We used Py_DECREF to decrement the result but
still the memory was not released even after we have finalized the
python instance.

But when we replaced PyEval_CallObject with PyObject_CallMethod the
momory was released properly and our problem got solved.

Could any one explain what is wrong with PyEval_CallObject?

Thanks in Advance.

Regards
B.Arivazhagan



From m at moshez.org  Sun Jun 15 23:54:21 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 03:54:21 -0000
Subject: Large File Parsing
In-Reply-To: <vp1qevc3kaq554ktpf4907drfu68ju62s8@4ax.com>
References: <vp1qevc3kaq554ktpf4907drfu68ju62s8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030616035421.13669.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, Robert S Shaffer <r.shaffer9 at verizon.net> wrote:

> I have upto a 3 million record file to parse, remove duplicates and
> sort by size then numeric value. Is this the best way to do this in
> python. The key is the first column and the ,xx needs removed.
> 
> 1234567,12
> 123456789012,12
<snip>
> def filesort( input1,input2 ):
>     if (len (input1) > len( input2 )):
>         return 1
>     if (len (input1) < len( input2 )):
>         return -1
>     return cmp(input1,input2)

Always avoid writing your own cmp() function.

Here are three examples of such ways, with increasing generality:
 
def sortedCopy(fin, fout):
    """usable if all values are integers without leading zeroes"""
    d = {}
    for line in fin:
        val, _ = line.split(',', 1)
        d[int(val)] = 1
    k = d.keys()
    k.sort()
    fout.writelines([str(val)+'\n' for val in k])

def sortedCopy(fin, fout):
    """usable if all values are integers (with or without leading zeroes)"""
    # uses a hack: instead of trying to treat 0012 especially, put a leading
    # "1" everywhere. Trick I learned from a Peter Norvig paper.
    d = {}
    for line in fin:
        val, _ = line.split(',', 1)
        d[int('1'+val)] = 1
    k = d.keys()
    k.sort()
    fout.writelines([str(val)[1:]+'\n' for val in k])

def sortedCopy(fin, fout):
    """usable for any strings"""
    d = {}
    for line in fin:
        val, _ = line.split(',', 1)
        d[len(val), val] = 1
    k = d.keys()
    k.sort()
    fout.writelines([val+'\n' for _, val in k])
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jun  6 05:22:27 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 05:22:27 -0400
Subject: Postfix/Prefix Operators (++,--)
References: <1054878539.22405.4.camel@mylinuxsite.com> <mailman.1054880245.29052.python-list@python.org> <bbpgnm$buit0$1@ID-196014.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EE05D53.CF245885@engcorp.com>

Peter Slizik wrote:
> 
> >
> >     >>> import this
> >     ...
> >     There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
> >     ...
> 
> By the way, what the heck is *this* module?
> Some experimental module to test ROT 13 cipher?

Call it an Easter Egg, if you will...

Or search on google for some key phrases from the output, to
see where it came from.



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Fri Jun  6 15:43:36 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:43:36 +0200
Subject: id(a) == id(b) and a is not b --> bug?
In-Reply-To: <3EDFDDBC.673E0F25@alcyone.com>
References: <mailman.1054855286.16163.python-list@python.org> <3EDFDDBC.673E0F25@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20030606194336.GA9743@nl.linux.org>

Erik Max Francis schreef op vrijdag  6 juni om 02:22:35 +0000:
> >>> class C:
> ...  def m(self): pass
> ... 
> >>> c = C()
> >>> c.m is c.m
> 0
> >>> id(c.m) == id(c.m)
> 1
> 
> It's happening because accessing a method dynamically creates an unique
> object and goes away when you're finished with it.

There's probably a perfectly good reason for that ;)

> So when an
> expression needs both at the same time (c.m is c.m), two unique objects
> are created, but when an expression doesn't need both at the same time
> (id(c.m) == id(c.m)), an object gets created with an ID, is destroyed,
> and then a second object is created with the same ID (since the last one
> just got reclaimed) and their IDs compare equal.  Weird, huh?  (It
> surprised me when I first saw it, too.)

Ah, thanks for this explanation!

BTW, is there any way I could have found out about this myself, expect
reading the source (which I can't because of lack of knowledge)?

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
120. If any one store corn for safe keeping in another person's house,
and any harm happen to the corn in storage, or if the owner of the house
open the granary and take some of the corn, or if especially he deny that
the corn was stored in his house: then the owner of the corn shall claim
his corn before God (on oath), and the owner of the house shall pay its
owner for all of the corn that he took.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jun  9 19:15:29 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 16:15:29 -0700
Subject: Why is error message value "disappearing"?
References: <HN7Fa.571$Hw.711657@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3EE51511.A63567BF@alcyone.com>

Robert Oschler wrote:

> It's as if errMsg is being passed by value and the assignment that
> occurs
> inside errtest() doesn't "stick".  I thought Python was pass by
> reference?
>
> What am I doing wrong?

It's because there are two different errMsg variables that you're using;
one is local (to the function errtest), the other is global.  The first
is local because it's one of the formal parameters, so Python figures
you mustn't be talking about the global version.  If you really want it
to be global, don't use it:

	errMsg = ""

	def errtest():
	    global errMsg # use the global variable
	    ...

	if not errtest():
	    ...

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Courage is the fear of being thought a coward.
\__/  Horace Smith



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jun  3 19:30:46 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 19:30:46 -0400
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <20030603164521903-0400 at braeburn.themorgue.org>,
Kevin Smith  <Kevin.Smith at sas.com> wrote:
>
>The current way of declaring a method to be a class method or a static 
>method leaves much to be desired.  While it is flexible in the sense 
>that new types of method modifiers can be created without any 
>syntactical backwards incompatibilities, it just isn't that user-
>friendly (and, in turn, not Pythonic).

No argument; Guido considers the current method experimental.  The
current front-runner for fixing this is to add function decorators:

    def myMethod(args) [staticmethod]:
        blah, blah, blah

staticmethod would be a callable object that would return the
replacement function object.  This would allow chained decorators.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From guy at remember-tomorrow.co.uk  Sun Jun  1 20:16:46 2003
From: guy at remember-tomorrow.co.uk (Guy Heatley)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 01:16:46 +0100
Subject: Mod_python vs normal CGI
References: <UcnBa.239$dp1.2137@news.bc.tac.net> <slrnbdc2de.k7b.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <AMwCa.240$dp1.2194@news.bc.tac.net>

Jon Ribbens wrote:

> Personally I would suggest http://jonpy.sf.net/ which provides an
> interface such that you can write your code once and it will work
> unchanged under CGI, mod_python and FastCGI.

Thanks for the info! I'll check it out.
-- 
Guy



From jfabiani at yolo.com  Wed Jun  4 15:33:44 2003
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (John Fabiani)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:33:44 GMT
Subject: [pyPgSQL] FAILED array.py in regression
References: <6apDa.519$KA6.70674583@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <mailman.1054747990.5607.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sQrDa.2750$Y72.1110@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>

I'm guessing that's not to serious.  I'll just keep working.. Thanks for
your help.
John

Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> John Fabiani wrote:
>> short version
>> ERROR: CheckForIntInsertMultiDim (__main__.ArrayTestCases)
>> 
>> raise OperationalError, msg
>> OperationalError: ERROR: pg_atoi: zero-length string.
>> 
>> The above error is the only error I get when testing the regression.
>> I'm using SuSE 8.2 Python 2.2.2
>> (i'm a newbie to Linux and compiled the source myself without any real
>> knowledge of what I was doing by using "setup.py")
>> 
>> Is this serious??????
> 
> No, we know this error happens with PostgreSQL 7.3 servers. I'm not sure
> if it's fixed in CVS yet, but I think so. I'll have to check.
> 
> A new release should go out pretty soon now, anyway.
> 
> -- Gerhard

-- 
John Fabiani



From support-autoreply at reget.com  Sat Jun 14 03:03:56 2003
From: support-autoreply at reget.com (support-autoreply at reget.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 03:03:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [AutoReply: Re: Movie]
Message-ID: <200306140703.h5E73uC73060@cifnet.melmac.net>

Dear ReGet user,

thank you for your contacting to support team. We will reply to you as soon as possible. Please visit our FAQ page <http://deluxe.reget.com/?l=en&p=faq> and registration troubleshooting page <http://deluxe.reget.com/?l=en&p=reg_faq>. You may find answer to your question there. 

Best regards,

ReGet support team

-------Russian-----------
????????? ???????????? ReGet,

??????? ?? ??, ??? ?????????? ? ?????? ?????????. ?? ???????, ??? ?????? ??????. ??????????, ???????? ???? ???????? FAQ <http://deluxe.reget.com/?l=ru&p=faq> ? ???????? ???????? ?? ??????????? <http://deluxe.reget.com/?l=ru&p=reg_faq>. ????????, ??? ?? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ??????.

? ?????????, 

?????? ????????? ReGet


--------Japanese---------

???}?????m?????I?c?O?????????{?????????T?|?[?g???b???x?~???????????B?p???????????????????????????A???????????????s???\???????A?????|?? <http://babel.altavista.com/translate.dyn>Altavista Translations ???????p?????????B???????A?????|???????????A?????????????????e?????????X???[?X?????????????????????????????????????????????????B
 





From no.spam at comcast.net  Mon Jun  9 09:59:45 2003
From: no.spam at comcast.net (BGM)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 09:59:45 -0400
Subject: Error checking in Python
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306090952001.1841-100000@linux.local>

Hello all:

I am new to python, coming from a modest C background. Recently, I was
writing some custom module in Python and I was wondering about one thing:
Since the user of the module can pass any argument they wish, then it
seemed like a good idea to check ,say, for type errors within the
functions in the module. However, it occurred to me that if some of these
functions are used in in the inner loops of some program, there could be a significant
slow-down. When writing their own modules, what do the users of the list
usually do? Do you leave the responsibility for type checking to the user
of the functions, or do you implement this in the modules, or some
combination of these two approaches?

I apologize if there is a simple mechanism that Python provides that I
have perhaps not learned about. (Other than throwing an exception during
runtime)

-------------------
BGM.




From jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com  Fri Jun 27 15:29:18 2003
From: jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com (jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:29:18 -0400
Subject: regex plea for help
Message-ID: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B33CC@SRV-03>

I'm trying to process through an apache log file and bust up the individual
sections into a list for further processing. There is a regex I got from a
php example that matches an entire line, but obviously, that only returns a
single element list. re.split() doesn't see to be the tool to use. I think I
need to define 'symbolic groups' in the regex to return them as distinct
elements. If someone could provide information or relevent links I would be
most appreciative.




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jun 15 20:37:55 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:37:55 -0400
Subject: ezPyCrypto encryption using only public key problem.
References: <3ae39fa7.0306150924.12aae909@posting.google.com> <3EECD55B.B3EB7982@engcorp.com> <GT6Ha.3135$T85.676081@news1.telusplanet.net>
Message-ID: <3EED1163.BDA82E9D@engcorp.com>

"Adrian St. Onge" wrote:
> 
> Ok, I can see commenting out the bad line, etc..
> But the bad line show that you can't encrypt something with ezPyCrypto with out
> loading a private key also. How would I go about encrypting something for someone else
> with their public key, when the lib requires (it shouldn't) to have a private/public key
> pair.

One of us is misunderstanding the other, but I'm not sure which of 
us is which. :-)

When I removed that "bad line", I was able to run example3 just fine,
which I believe means the code could then encrypt something using
just the public key, as the routine in question doesn't need the 
private key *except* for the unnecessary verification step.

Does removing that line not allow your code to work?

-Peter



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun 11 06:35:50 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:35:50 -0400
Subject: Sockets and threads
References: <C0BFa.597$n46.42261599@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3EE70606.C03C4444@engcorp.com>

Byron Morgan wrote:
> 
> If I monitor a socket connection or even jsust listen to a socket in a
> thread, Python's cpu usage expands to use all available processor time.

Let me guess.  Are you using non-blocking sockets and polling them
to see if there's anything to read?  This is a very poor way to do
whatever you're trying to do.  One thing to investigate would be
the select module.  Please post example code to clarify your question.

-Peter



From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Tue Jun 17 06:04:04 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:04:04 +0400
Subject: Getting Instance of calling class
In-Reply-To: <bcmfbb$kih2v$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
References: <bcmfbb$kih2v$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bcmp2l$1ltg$1@news.peterlink.ru>

Thomas G?ttler wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I have a function called _() which prints 
> strings according to the language of the user.
> 
> I don't want to give this method the object which
> holds the language information every time I call it.
> 
> How can I access the calling object?
> 
> Background: This is a python product for zope.
> My main object holds the prefered language of each
> user. 
> 
> I found no way to get a reference to my main
> object from _(). Global variables are no solution
> since there could be several main objects and there
> are multiple threads.
> 
>  thomas
> 
You can find a caller with get_frame trickery (google for it---this 
issue has been discussed already). However, I think you should stick to 
another solution. As a simple example:

class UserInfo:
    ...
    def print_msg(msg):
        # Language dependent code goes here

when later:
      user = current_user()
      report_function = user.print_msg
      callee(report_function, ....)

hth,
anton.




From taral at taral.net  Wed Jun  4 10:33:43 2003
From: taral at taral.net (Taral)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:33:43 -0500
Subject: Proposed extension to file constructor
In-Reply-To: <20030604123608.GA8620@hishome.net>
References: <20030603182813.GB1366@taral.net> <16092.63916.83822.950537@montanaro.dyndns.org> <20030604123608.GA8620@hishome.net>
Message-ID: <20030604143343.GA1476@taral.net>

On Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 08:36:09AM -0400, Oren Tirosh wrote:
> One example of why you might want a file subclass is to extend the
> functionality of the object returned by popen with new methods (e.g.
> retrieving process the exit code). Why should adding a single method
> require the implementation of a complete wrapper object? Another
> functionality that is available only for a true file object and not
> for subclasses is to set the name field to an arbitrary value such as
> '(fdopen)' or a process name.

Another reason is that PyFile_AsFile only works on real file objects.

-- 
Taral <taral at taral.net>
This message is digitally signed. Please PGP encrypt mail to me.
"Most parents have better things to do with their time than take care of
their children." -- Me
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From unendliche at hanmail.net  Fri Jun 13 17:24:14 2003
From: unendliche at hanmail.net (Seo Sanghyeon)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 14:24:14 -0700
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <16102.10640.855883.967908@montanaro.dyndns.org> <20030610190206.54459.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com> <mailman.1055526867.16928.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <45e6545c.0306131324.1ca0867c@posting.google.com>

Gustavo Niemeyer wrote:
> 8) You use the interactive interpreter as a calculator.

Very true!

--
Seo Sanghyeon



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Tue Jun 24 18:47:53 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 08:37:53 +0950
Subject: Booleans and comparison results
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306241915430.5887-100000@rnd.onego.ru> <mailman.1056469842.23238.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbfhme9.7os.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:49:51 +0200, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Roman Suzi wrote:
>> Just a thought. Why cmp() returns -1,0,1 while comparison results are
>> False and True? Isn't it logical step to add Less, Equal and More?
> 
> Yeah. And while we're at it, we might add a module for time constants.
> ;-)

You tease :-)

-- 
 \        "I washed a sock. Then I put it in the dryer. When I took it |
  `\                              out, it was gone."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From webliebe at t-online.de  Mon Jun  2 22:15:27 2003
From: webliebe at t-online.de (Hendrik Reinhold)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 02:15:27 GMT
Subject: integer to string?
Message-ID: <3edbffd5.61792491@news.t-online.de>

Hello,

I want my answering machine to play a random file for each call.
The configuration scripts (of capisuite) are in python, so I think I
am in the right group. :)


import random
from random import randrange
var1 = randrange(0,9)
capisuite.audio_send(call,my_path+var1+".la")


I guess that var1 is an integer and that I cannot concat the var1
with the path variable and the file extension. I couldn?t find out how
to convert the variables (int to string), and phyton.org was not very
usefull for me, a python newbie.  ;)

any ideas? 

best regards
Hendrik

PS:  (using v2.2.2) 



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sat Jun 28 06:27:53 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:27:53 +0200
Subject: OFF TOPIC: What did Guido say?
In-Reply-To: <bdhdpt$f12$1@eol.dd.chalmers.se>
References: <20030625002727.20904.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> <3EF95F29.8050609@riks.nl> <mailman.1056534582.11867.python-list@python.org> <bdhdpt$f12$1@eol.dd.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <20030628102753.GA2558@nl.linux.org>

Anders Hammarquist wrote:
> Gerrit Holl  <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
> >hee de her linus torvalds oh ja utallar linux linux ;)
> 
> and that would really be:
> 
> Hej, det h?r ?r Linus Torvalds och jag uttalar Linux Linux.

This post actually more than quadruples the number of Google results
on this phrase (:

http://groups.google.nl/groups?q=%22Hej,+det+h%C3%A4r+%C3%A4r+Linus+Torvalds+och+jag+uttalar+Linux+Linux%22&hl=nl&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=0

Was: 1 result
Is: 6 results
After this one: 7 results

"Hej" --> "Hello"?
"det" --> "This"?
"har" --> "here"?
"ar" --> "is"?
"och" --> "and"?
"jag" --> "I"?
"uttalar" --> "pronounce'?

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
34. If a ... or a ... harm the property of a captain, injure the
captain, or take away from the captain a gift presented to him by the
king, then the ... or ... shall be put to death.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  9 12:36:50 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 10:36:50 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <3EE4A002.5000307@geekabytes.net>; from junk@geekabytes.net on Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 08:56:02AM -0600
References: <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org> <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <3EE25DE1.5010408@geekabytes.net> <20030608002729.A3370@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus> <3EE4A002.5000307@geekabytes.net>
Message-ID: <20030609103650.C778@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Nielson Family:
  [...]
> I never meant the factorial I wrote below to be a 'final' product.  
> Rather, it was a simple test to demonstrate that the self-reference 
> worked correctly.

Oh, indeed.  It tests and illustrates the technique very well.

> When you say that it's not clear, do you mean that it's not clear from a 
> functional programming perspective?  Are you saying it is better 
> implemented with def? 

I mean it's better implemented with def.  The self-reference
*itself* doesn't bother me at all -- it's the contortions needed
to get the base case of the recursion properly handled inside a
lambda, for example.

If you know the and/or trick for making (something like) a
conditional operator, then

    factorial = lambda x: x==0 and 1 or x*selfref.myself(x-1)

might be a touch clearer.  (A real conditional operator would be
better here, of course; we're lucky to have a base case of 1.)

This expression is *just* complex enough to be *almost*
unreadable, imho.  Adding code to check that x >= 0 (to raise an
exception rather than recurse infinitely) pushes it over the edge.
I extrapolate from this simple case, to suspect that any real-life
recursive function would be too complex for such an implementation
to be readable.

It's still quite clever, though.

  [...]
-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"[T]rue greatness is when your name is like ampere, watt, and fourier
 -- when it's spelled with a lower case letter."      -- R.W. Hamming




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Thu Jun 12 20:52:27 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:52:27 +1000
Subject: Use __del__ methods to improve gc?
In-Reply-To: <vegt5ii1vo4v81@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vegt5ii1vo4v81@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20030613005226.GA16514@frobozz>

On Thu, Jun 12, 2003 at 07:35:43AM -0500, Edward K. Ream wrote:
> My app has unlimited undo.  As a result, most "user" data never truly gets
> deleted: the undo stack keeps references to all such data alive "forever".
> 
> I am wondering whether it would be a good idea to put dummy __del__ methods
> in the user data classes.  Would this help the gc by telling the gc what not
> to look at?

No.  In fact, it would probably have the opposite effect; __del__ methods
can prevent unreachable cycles from being collected.

However, it sounds like you might be interested in the weakref module...

-Andrew.





From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Fri Jun 20 23:03:52 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 13:03:52 +1000
Subject: Classic vs New-style classes...
In-Reply-To: <JMEGJMPPKPGDEGCCJKGKEECCCDAA.martin_chilvers@gmx.net>
References: <JMEGJMPPKPGDEGCCJKGKEECCCDAA.martin_chilvers@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20030621030351.GA15578@frobozz>

On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 09:35:45PM -0500, Martin Chilvers wrote:
> 
> What I really wanted was this:-
> 
> 	def addToClass(klass, name, value):
>     	    exec('klass.%s = value' % name)

What you *really* wanted was:

    setattr(klass, name, value)

Which works just fine on new- and old-style classes.

-Andrew.





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Jun 20 05:11:01 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:11:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: sum(strings)
References: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <Xns939FAB54E7C9Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <w%lIa.209490$g92.4306887@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <Xns93A0660E5FA5duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in 
news:w%lIa.209490$g92.4306887 at news2.tin.it:

>> which has the advantage that you can sum anything addable without
>> specifying a start value.
> 
> ...and the HUGE practical disadvantage of strongly encouraging
> a horde of newbies to rush into the worst performance trap that
> is waiting for them in Python -- putting a lot of small strings
> together into a big string with +=.  This is known as an
> "attractive nuisance" and may make you liable for the resulting
> damages;-).  No, if sum accepted a sequence of strings it WOULD
> have to delegate to ''.join in that case -- and I just couldn't
> find an elegant and totally general way to do that.  Thus, using
> sum as yet another occasion to remind newbies about the wonders
> of ''.join was deemed to be the best practical solution.
> 
I think I made the mistake of suggesting two things at once, and I'd like 
to separate them out for discussion.

The first was the question of whether sum should operate on a sequence of 
strings or throw an error. I would say that if it could be made to run as 
fast as ''.join it should, but if not the error is an understandable albeit 
somewhat grating response.

The second was my point that you need to specify a starting value for any 
non-numeric sequence. I think it would be trivial to fix that one, and I 
really don't see any drawback to it. You can take my 'simpler 
implementation' and add an explicit string check easily.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From p at ulmcnett.com  Thu Jun 19 12:22:24 2003
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:22:24 -0700
Subject: Is python good for making database work short?
In-Reply-To: <6f8cb8c9.0306190735.abb5d5f@posting.google.com>
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055987132.22607.python-list@python.org> <6f8cb8c9.0306190735.abb5d5f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200306190922.24896.p@ulmcnett.com>

Steve writes:

> I have been very impressed with foxpro.  I am surprised that the free
> software community ( or even another proprietary group ) has not
> produced a work-a-like of foxpro.

Microsoft played their hand quite adeptly, giving FoxPro developers regular 
upgrades and cool new features, marketing FoxPro quite well to the FoxPro 
community but not at all outside that community.  Basically, they kept us 
busy learning the new features and encouraging us to also learn the overall 
Visual Studio product. The idea of Linux and open source is rather new to 
the broad FoxPro user base, and has been seen as a threat even by those 
same people who are afraid of Microsoft deciding one day to kill FoxPro.

This situation has changed somewhat over the last couple years, but 
basically Microsoft was providing us just enough with their Visual FoxPro 
product to keep it from being worthwhile for someone to develop a 
work-alike.

It is my view that in another year or so, that broad base of FoxPro 
developers will look around and realize that the desktop market is no 
longer so dominated by Windows, and go into a little panic because the only 
tool they know is only available for Windows development.

-- 
Paul McNett




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jun 12 12:27:44 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:27:44 -0500
Subject: Matching C integer constants with re
In-Reply-To: <1xxzofj8.fsf@python.net>
References: <1xxzofj8.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <16104.43520.337396.91033@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Thomas>  re.compile(r"(0[xX][0-9a-fA-F]+|\d+)([uU]|[lL]|[uU][lL]|[lL][uU])?")

    Thomas> and it fails to match constants with a two character suffix like
    Thomas> these: "123ul" and "123lu", although "123u" and "123l" are found
    Thomas> correctly.  Can anyone see what's wrong?

Try reordering the "ul" stuff so the two-character options occur earlier:

    ...([uU][lL]|[lL][uU]|[uU]|[lL])?

Skip




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jun 23 13:26:23 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:26:23 -0400
Subject: assuring class 'clean up' actions are carried out
References: <3ef70710@news.ColoState.EDU>
Message-ID: <rsKcnTGDUfYnpWqjXTWJig@comcast.com>

"gyro" <gyromagnetic at excite.com> wrote in message
news:3ef70710 at news.ColoState.EDU...
> Hi,
> I have a class which manages file- and directory-related things for
an
> application. A simplified example is shown by class 'C2' below.
>
> I would like to use an object of this class in another class ('C1'
below).
> My objective is to make sure that the '_cleanup' method of object C2
is
> called when C1 is destroyed or garbage collected.

To 'make sure', you must be explicit.

> I tried the solution below, but I get the following error when I
execute
> file c1.py:
> "Exception exceptions.ImportError: 'No module named shutil' in
<bound
> method C1.__del__ of <__main__.C1 object at 0x811561c>> ignored"
>
> Moreover, the temp directory is not deleted.

When Python exits, it attempts to do some version-dependent,
source-code-documented cleanup in some arbitrary order.  It appears
that shutil gets deleted first.

> If I put an explicit 'del c1' below 'c1 = C1()', the cleanup seems
to
> work fine. However, if possible, I would rather not have to
explicitly
> delete the C1 instance.

You get what you pay for.

> Is there a way to assure that the _cleanup is
> done when an object of C1 is eliminated by Python's garbage
collector?

gc can and should only collect unreachable objects -- refcount 0 or
part of detached cycle.  As long as global name c1 is bound to C1
instance, neither is true, and the instance will continue to exist,

Terry J. Reedy






From bernie at 3captus.com  Thu Jun 12 23:41:21 2003
From: bernie at 3captus.com (Bernard Yue)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 03:41:21 GMT
Subject: exceptions within user-defined functions?
References: <mailman.1055470343.2955.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE947B0.8060601@3captus.com>

e y suzuki wrote:

>i'm trying to put together a try/except clause within a function.  the
>clause will specifically except the ValueError and NameError exceptions.
>the clause can be put together fine, but i'm having a bit of trouble 
>making the NameError exception be caught when the clause is included in 
>a user-defined function.
>
>try/except clause directly at the python interpreter appears fine for 
>both NameError and ValueError:
>  
>
>>>>try:
>>>>        
>>>>
>...   val=int('eep')
>...   print val
>... except (NameError,ValueError),msg:
>...   print msg
>...
>invalid literal for int(): eep
>  
>
>>>>try:
>>>>        
>>>>
>...   val=int(t)
>...   print val
>... except (NameError,ValueError),msg:
>...   print msg
>...
>name 't' is not defined
>
>i now place the try/except clause in a function:
>  
>
>>>>def str2no(x):
>>>>        
>>>>
>...   try:
>...     val=int(x)
>...     print val
>...   except (NameError,ValueError),msg:
>...     print msg
>...
>
>it appears to work fine for the ValueError, but although the traceback
>for string t as input acknowledges that the error is a NameError, the 
>error isn't caught (even though it is excepted in the function above):
>  
>
>>>>str2no('eep')
>>>>        
>>>>
>invalid literal for int(): eep
>  
>
>>>>str2no(t)
>>>>        
>>>>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>NameError: name 't' is not defined
>  
>
NameError is raised before entering str2no() because before a function is
called, the python interpreter prepares the parameter(s).  Since 't' is 
undefined,
exception is raised while calling str2no(), but before any statement within
str2no() is executed.

Now lets look at str2no():

    def str2no(x):
       try:
           val=int(x)
           print val
       except (NameError,ValueError),msg:
           print msg

Sincec 'x' is passed in as a parameter.  'x' is always defined within 
the scope of
str2no(), henceNameError exception will never be raised within str2no().

>i've also tried defining the str2no function without the ValueError 
>exception to isolate the NameError, to no avail.  similar unsuccessful
>result when excepting the parent error, StandardError, in lieu of both
>ValueError and NameError (ValueError is caught fine).
>
>what am i doing wrong?  please advise.
>
>thanks in advance,
>-eys
>
>
>  
>
Bernie
-- 

There are three schools of magic.  One:  State a tautology, then ring
the changes on its corollaries; that's philosophy.  Two:  Record many
facts.  Try to find a pattern.  Then make a wrong guess at the next
fact; that's science.  Three:  Be aware that you live in a malevolent
Universe controlled by Murphy's Law, sometimes offset by Brewster's
Factor; that's engineering.
                -- Robert A. Heinlein






From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 17 13:53:01 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:53:01 -0700
Subject: Python as a Language Choice
References: <bckvg4$kdoar$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <hifsevksoqegp0hiun38onurbceteo8m48@4ax.com> <slrnbesshs.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <bcnkfo$ldokh$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

| ...
| That's what he meant by Application Programming Interface
| (API).
| ...

Ben ...

Thanks for the clarification on my behalf ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From alf at fayauffre.org  Thu Jun 19 03:16:13 2003
From: alf at fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 07:16:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.1.2
References: <slrnbf126d.67u.alf@largo.fayauffre.org> <6q1xxrpcu0.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <slrnbf1996.6la.alf@largo.fayauffre.org> <6qsmq7ntwd.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbf2opt.h5.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>

Bernhard Herzog a ?crit :
> Alexandre Fayolle <alf at fayauffre.org> writes:
> 
>> >  - It incorrectly says that "C" is not a valid class name in the
>> >    following class statement:
>> > 
>> >    class C:
>> >        pass
>> 
>> This is part of the coding standard checking part in pylint.
> 
> Ah, I see. Maybe the message should be changed, then. "invalid" seems a
> bit strong for not conforming to a naming convention.

Yes. We'll fix this in the next release. 

> I just noticed another minor thing: "class" is spelled "classe" in the
> output.

This is because we're French and sometimes, our fingers get carried away
when typing <wink>. This is now fixed in CVS. Thanks. 


-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations



From missive at frontiernet.net  Sat Jun 21 16:43:38 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:43:38 GMT
Subject: "a in b" calls a.__cmp__, why?
References: <mailman.1056224677.5103.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbf9gtb.1ej5.missive@localhost.my.domain>

In article <mailman.1056224677.5103.python-list at python.org>, Gerrit Holl wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Why does a container-sequence's __contains__ call obj.__cmp__?
> 
>   0 >>> class Foo(object):
>   0 ...  def __cmp__(self, other):
>   0 ...   print "comparing"
>   0 ...   return cmp(id(self), id(other))
>   0 ...
>   2 >>> l=[Foo(), Foo(), Foo()]
>   3 >>> l[0] in l
> comparing
> True
> 
> Why do lists and tuples do this? Or is it unwanted/a bug?
> 

well... you might be upset if this did not work:

>>> z=[]
>>> z.append(4)
>>> 4.0 in z
1



> It means a serious impact on 
> speed for me, since I'm writing a game and __cmp__ is used to
> determine the drawing order, (layers etc.), which is not extremely
> expensive but too expensive to do each frame: I can cache my sprites
> and resort it if and only if sprites appear or disappear from a
> certain area, but I do need to do membership tests each frame...
> 
> By testing and playing, I see only one way to suppress this:
> 
>   7 >>> l[2] in dict.fromkeys(l)
> True
> 
> However, is this trick really necessary?
> 


You could create a list subclass and override __contains__ or
if this is Pygame, I would recommend using sprite.Group().has()



> P.S.
> Do other people also have CVS problems? In 98% of my tries to
> do "cvs update -PCdfR", I get an error message: either
> "reading from server: Connection reset by peer", or
> "end of file from server (consult above messages if any)". The
> same is true when diffing. In 2% of the tries, however, all
> works as it should, so I'm cvs-update'ing in a while loop
> while breaking out of it when it succeeds... :(
> 

Sourceforge? There have been many other people having problems...
Hopefully they are not all doing this, or maybe that is why the
poor sf servers can't handle it.




From kill_cxc_spam_0117 at cs.rit.edu  Sun Jun 29 14:48:37 2003
From: kill_cxc_spam_0117 at cs.rit.edu (Chris Connett)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:48:37 -0400
Subject: (x)range( 40000000000, 40000000001 )
Message-ID: <3eff347f$1@buckaroo.cs.rit.edu>

It seems range and xrange don't like longs that can't be sqeezed into ints:

With Python 2.3b1+:

 >>> xrange( 40000000000, 40000000001 )
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
 >>> range( 40000000000, 40000000001 )
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
 >>>

Its not a critical problem, and I can find a way around it.  It's a just 
little disconcerting that (x)range doesn't work with big longs, and it 
seems it would not be too difficult to make work.




From kp at kyborg.dk  Thu Jun 26 08:21:16 2003
From: kp at kyborg.dk (Kim Petersen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:21:16 +0200
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
In-Reply-To: <_msKa.18143$Bg.10846@rwcrnsc54>
References: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com> <bct498$mnjrt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <8da5fvsnidpjtblgfj4484spso2t9e6r95@4ax.com> <bcuqp3$nl9um$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <rt97fv80g2dguti1okoevk3kmvo6oh14vt@4ax.com> <bd17hu$niu1d$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <u7lcfv85lvutqg8tspgua4qc0454gsd2ie@4ax.com> <bd8gsc$pt2lr$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <3ef80342$0$13176$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <bd93ji$qieli$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <3ef816ff$0$13210$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <vS7Ka.12332$XG4.10593@rwcrnsc53> <3ef93a0e$0$13192$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <bdcfmn$ran36$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <3EFA2521.94B42B9B@alcyone.com> <_msKa.18143$Bg.10846@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <3efae53d$0$13177$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

Bryan wrote:
> i just did a test comparing:
> 
> if key not in mydict:
> 
> and
> 
> if not mydict.has_key(key):
> 
> and the 1st way cameout 28% faster.  (on python 2.3)
> 
Must be functioncall overhead then... lack of optimization in compiler? 
since the two lines are functionally completely equivalent.

Unfortunate for me, fortunate for those who don't have to write code for 
older python implementations ;-/

> bryan


-- 
Med Venlig Hilsen / Regards

Kim Petersen - Kyborg A/S (Udvikling)
IT - Innovationshuset
Havneparken 2
7100 Vejle
Tlf. +4576408183 || Fax. +4576408188




From matthew.rapoport at accenture.com  Mon Jun  2 15:20:17 2003
From: matthew.rapoport at accenture.com (Matt Rapoport)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 12:20:17 -0700
Subject: Passing an Event from a Thread to its Caller
Message-ID: <4150f6c8.0306021120.7b70d981@posting.google.com>

Hi all, I'm a newbie to python and threading in general.

I'm trying to write a service using the win32 extensions.  My service
runs a thread and the thread is just a simple class that I created.

I'd like that simple class of mine to be able to generate an event
within the service.  How do I do that?  Thank you very much for the
help.

- Matt

Here's a snippet of the code (my simple class iss called Client)...


import Client

class ClientThread(threading.Thread):
    def run(self):
        client = Client.Client()
        client.run()
        

class ClientService(win32serviceutil.ServiceFramework):
    _svc_name_ = "HBTClient"
    _svc_display_name_ = "HBTClient"
    def __init__(self, args):
        win32serviceutil.ServiceFramework.__init__(self, args)
        self.hWaitStop = win32event.CreateEvent(None, 0, 0, None)
        
    def SvcStop(self):
        self.ReportServiceStatus(win32service.SERVICE_STOP_PENDING)
        win32event.SetEvent(self.hWaitStop)

    def SvcDoRun(self):
        client = ClientThread()
        client.setDaemon(1)
        client.start()
        win32event.WaitForSingleObject(self.hWaitStop,
win32event.INFINITE)



From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun  6 16:25:15 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 20:25:15 GMT
Subject: Thread State and the Global Interpreter Lock
Message-ID: <53u1evk5jmdcgma5e8eupbe3tn45js302i@4ax.com>

Are there plans to make the Python interpreter 
"fully thread safe" in a future version?

http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/threads.html



From theller at python.net  Fri Jun 20 04:54:32 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:54:32 +0200
Subject: Need help to grok c extension that needs to use callbacks with
 data
References: <mailman.1056058687.531.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wufhdt87.fsf@python.net>

Jim West <Jim.West at checklogix.com> writes:

> Good day all,
>
>   Ok, I'm new to Python but not to programming in general.
>
>   I have a task where I need to implement a C extension to interface to
> a third-party DLL (yes, windoze).  I also need to do this "by hand" as
> opposed to using something like SWIG.
>
>   So far all my methods work like a charm.  Now I'm trying to implement
> some functions that use a pointer-to-function callback params that have
> data.
>
>   I've gone over the "RECIPE" that uses qsort and am trying to
> extrapolate that example into what I'm doing and am not being successful
> at it.
>
>   Python -> C Extension -> MethodWithCallback (void (*userFunc)(unsigned
> char *))
>
>   ...and I want the callback function to be a Python function.

Have you looked into ctypes? It is able to do this, even in pure Python.

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/

Thomas



From beliavsky at aol.com  Sun Jun 15 16:28:06 2003
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 13:28:06 -0700
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>

In Python, you don't declare the type of a variable, so AFAIK there is
no way for the interpreter to check that you are calling functions
with variables of the correct type.

Thus, if I define a function correl(x,y) to compute the correlation of
two vectors, which makes sense to me only if x and y are 1-D arrays of
real numbers, Python will not stop me from trying to compute the
correlation of two arrays of integers or strings. C++ and Fortran 95
compilers can spot such errors.

Calling functions with invalid arguments is one of the commonest
programming errors, and I think it is worthwhile to declare variables,
especially the dummy arguments of functions, explicitly to avoid such
errors, even if it takes a few more lines of code. I worry that
Python's convenience in writing small programs comes at the cost of
making bug-free large programs more difficult to write.

I have only been programming in Python for a few weeks -- am I right
to worry?
Are there techniques to ensure that functions are called with
appropriate arguments?

When I actually try to call correl(x,y) in the program

from stats import correl
from Numeric import array
a = array(["a","b"])
b = array(["c","d"])
print correl(a,b) # should be arrays of Floats, not strings

I get the result

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "xcorr.py", line 5, in ?
    print correl(a,b)
  File "stats.py", line 88, in correl
    ax  = mean(x)
  File "stats.py", line 57, in mean
    return sum(x)/n
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for /: 'str' and 'int'

It's good that the program crashes rather than returning a bad result,
but a C++ or Fortran 95 compiler would flag the bad arguments during
compilation, which I think is still better. Also, in a large script,
the bad call to correl(x,y) could come after much CPU time had
elapsed, potentially wasting a lot of programmer's time.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jun  3 08:12:19 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:12:19 +0200
Subject: wxPython vs Tkinter for imaging front end GUI???
References: <3EDBB504.87EE8EE1@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <bbi36t$tr7$1@main.gmane.org>

Leonard J. Reder wrote:

> I have a command line image feature recognition code and I want to put a
> quick python script on it to execute it and give it a GUI.  I need to
> read in an image (JPEG), rescale the image on a canvas sort of display,
> place mouse over it to select some coordinate points.  And then just do
> other stuff with buttons and entries.  I am confortable with TK from
> using tcl but in Tk there is not an easy way to handle scaled images on
> the canvas.  Does wxPython have this sort of functionality included?

> Has this sort of thing been done with Tkinter and PIL in Python.

yes, all the time.

here's a minimal example (run as "python script.py imagefile"):

import sys
from PIL import Image, ImageTk
from Tkinter import Tk, Canvas, Button

root = Tk()
root.title("select region")

maxsize = 200, 200

im = Image.open(sys.argv[1])
truesize = im.size
im.thumbnail(maxsize)

print "scale is", float(truesize[0]) / im.size[0],
print "image pixels per screen pixel"

photo = ImageTk.PhotoImage(im)

canvas = Canvas(root, width=im.size[0], height=im.size[0], bd=0)
canvas.xview_moveto(0) # reset coordinate system
canvas.yview_moveto(0)
canvas.create_image(0, 0, image=photo, anchor="nw")
canvas.pack()

def click(event):
    x = event.widget.canvasx(event.x)
    y = event.widget.canvasy(event.y)
    x = x * truesize[0] / im.size[0]
    y = y * truesize[1] / im.size[1]
    print "clicked at original image pixel", x, y

canvas.bind("<Button-1>", click)

Button(root, text="done", command=root.quit).pack()

root.mainloop()

for more info, check the documentation for PIL's ImageTk
module.

</F>







From tylere at hotpop.com  Mon Jun  9 16:28:10 2003
From: tylere at hotpop.com (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 20:28:10 GMT
Subject: Why is lambda so slow?
References: <mailman.1055166856.7786.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u56Fa.4032$qd3.2428@tornadotest1.news.pas.earthlink.net>

Michael Chermside wrote:

> 
> You are mistaken, lambda isn't slow. Why, I tried it on my system,
> and the following program:

Seems pretty slow to me.

Doing that with a trandional function is MUCH faster.



From m at moshez.org  Sun Jun  8 12:10:13 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 16:10:13 -0000
Subject: Twisted - howto transport megabytes?
In-Reply-To: <3EE35666.965E6369@engcorp.com>
References: <3EE35666.965E6369@engcorp.com>, <pan.2003.06.08.05.01.17.794849@comcast.net> <mailman.1055052142.26164.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030608161013.10989.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Sun, 08 Jun 2003, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Questions like Ed's and answers like these are probably the best publicity 
> Twisted can receive, if you're trying to attract new users.  ;-)

On the flipside, people sending questions about Twisted here are missing
the much larger pool of experts who hang around on the Twisted list. Maybe
Jp's and my solutions are suboptimal, and there's a better way? If only
Glyph or Itamar would think of a better way, Ed would never know. So, in spite
of the publicity Twisted gets, people sending Twisted questions here are
doing themselves a disservice. Less Twisted people read clpy, and even some
who read clpy (like me) pay less attention to a high volume general group
like this one than to a focused mailing list like Twisted's. This is why
I always take pains to remind people that they're better off sending questions
to the Twisted mailing list.
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From bh at intevation.de  Sat Jun 21 15:31:23 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 21:31:23 +0200
Subject: WTF is Fibonnacci
References: <7inIa.55233$Io.5225846@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <I1oIa.9952$5d.738838@news20.bellglobal.com> <G22Ja.570$HI.61785282@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <6qadcb6xdg.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

"Byron Morgan" <lazypointer at yahoo.com> writes:

> Which reminds me of the IQ test usually failed by anyone over the age of 7:
> 
> Find the pattern in this series:
> 
> 1 11 21 1112 3112 211213 312213 212223 114213
> 
> Or at least I think that is it.

Seems OK if the next one is 31121314

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Sat Jun 21 13:06:47 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:06:47 +0300
Subject: sourceforge problems
References: <oP+b0PA97r8+Ew0C@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.1056115538.5045.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l449fvsjfegpmqn5m1gp01lgdicb9idecj@4ax.com>

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:24:51 -0500, rumours say that Skip Montanaro
<skip at pobox.com> might have written:

>    Robin> There are thousands of projects hosted at sf.net and it seems it
>    Robin> has become a single point of failure for open source. Is it a
>    Robin> good idea.

>Maybe Microsoft should buy SF?

In such a case, I can already imagine the flow of official statements
about how much MS is embracing open source, much unlike BSD licenses and
TCP/IP stack implementations...
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 10 22:41:35 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:41:35 +1200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <m3znkqikec.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3he71hk52.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1u1b1h908.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3brx9xepd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1k7bwhnv5.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m33cikw4a0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1d6hng389.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <bc3dqt$es439$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <m3znkqikec.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bc63ir$fjl3b$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Actually, I believe it will chose the alternative that is earliest in
> the YACC input file (atleast bison does that).

Yes, it's notion of "best" is rather simplistic in some cases. :-)

Courageous wrote:

 > This is one of the reasons I prefer ANTRL. In ANTLR grammars, one
 > cannot continue generating the parser until one either resolves the
 > ambiguity, or deliberately suppresses it.

With Yacc/Bison, there are two kinds of ambiguities that can
occur, shift-reduce conflicts and reduce-reduce conflicts.
The former are always resolved in favour of the shift, and
in practice this seems to be almost always the "right"
thing to do, producing the result one intuitively expects.

Reduce-reduce conflicts, on the other hand, are much more
of a lottery. As Martin says, Yacc just picks the first grammar
rule, and I've never found this to be at all useful. Although
they're only warnings, I've learned to treat all reduce-reduce
conflicts as errors.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From dlUN-SPAMrubin at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  5 12:14:02 2003
From: dlUN-SPAMrubin at yahoo.com (Daniel)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 09:14:02 -0700
Subject: Suspected bug in DCOracle2 for LOB's
Message-ID: <3EDF6C4A.E4151D06@yahoo.com>

I've installed the 2-1.3b DCOracle2 on windows and solaris. There's a
problem creating & inserting LOBs, and behavior is different for windows
and solaris (seg fault on solaris; error inserting the lob on windows).
This seems like a bug in DCOracle2?


**SOLARIS**

>>> db=DCOracle2.connect("me/pw at ora)
>>> c=db.cursor()
>>> clob=db.LobLocator("SQLT_CLOB")
>>> clob.write("<f>foo there</f>")
16
>>> d='insert into foo values(2, XMLTYPE.createXML(:m))'
>>> db.execute(d, clob)
4
>>> c.execute("commit")
0
>>> c.execute("select lobfield from foo where id=2")
1
>>> c.fetchone()
Segmentation fault


**WINDOWS**

>>> db=DCOracle2.connect("me/pw at ora")
>>> c=db.cursor()
>>> clob=db.LobLocator("SQLT_CLOB")
>>> clob.write('<f>foo there</f>')
16
>>> d='insert into foo values(8, XMLTYPE.createXML(:m))'
>>> db.execute(d,clob)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "DCOracle2\DCOracle2.py", line 1001, in execute
dco2.DatabaseError: (24805, 'ORA-24805: LOB type mismatch\nORA-06512: at
"SYS.XMLTYPE", line 0\nORA-
06512: at line 1')

--
To reply to me directly, please remove "UNSPAM" from my email address





From noah at noah.org  Wed Jun 18 15:27:46 2003
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 12:27:46 -0700
Subject: Cmd output and status in one call on Windows
References: <mailman.1055786077.30359.python-list@python.org> <84e0f331.0306170541.45015058@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0306181127.65de3c53@posting.google.com>

rshaw2 at midsouth.rr.com (Richard) wrote in message news:<84e0f331.0306170541.45015058 at posting.google.com>...
> "Justin Johnson" <justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055786077.30359.python-list at python.org>...
> > Hi,
> > 
> > ... Is there a way to get this info on Windows?
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > -Justin
> 
> I'm not sure about the return status (errorlevel in windows). But
> "pexpect" would work for your situation. It's mainly used for
> ...

Alas, Pexpect is for UNIX; although, it works under Cygwin.

Yours,
Noah



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 14 07:58:59 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 12:58:59 +0100
Subject: Hot to get Python executable's path ??
References: <Law15-F38y3P5snV6pU000529b0@hotmail.com> <mailman.1055587466.27085.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EEB0E03.98EF52A0@hotmail.com>

Zac Jensen wrote:

> Should be fine, that's odd that apache is honoring the shebang hack in
> win32, but, good I suppose.

Putting the path to an interpreter on the first line of an executable text file
is not a hack.

The original unix shell method of recognising executable files was if their
"execute bit" was set. If such a file was a text file, by convention, the first
line contained what we now call the "shebang" in the web world, which gave the
path to the interpreter for that file.

It's not unusual that the Apache people brought that unix convention over to
win32. It's a nicer convention than relying on the file extension to determine
the interpreter for an interpreted file.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com  Mon Jun  9 13:58:50 2003
From: newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com (Daniel Fackrell)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:58:50 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0306070837.789f2a9f@posting.google.com> <l13cilipsy.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <2259b0e2.0306080404.47f621bf@posting.google.com> <l1wufwg3ko.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <3ee4cadb_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>

Ed Avis wrote:
> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:
>
>> Am I mistaken or you want dict.__setitem__ ?
>
> Yes, but ideally without the four underscores which seem to convey
> 'internal stuff, you're not really meant to call this'.  Perhaps I am
> just too squeamish and good Python programmers have no objection to
> writing code full of __x__().  I know I've seen some code by Guido
> which looks like that.

This may help:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/id-classes.html

So not really internal stuff, just treated a bit differently.  The
_something and __something forms could, however, be seen as discouraging use
without giving more serious thought.

--
Daniel Fackrell (newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com)
When we attempt the impossible, we can experience true growth.





From newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com  Thu Jun 12 16:06:54 2003
From: newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com (Daniel Fackrell)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:06:54 -0600
Subject: random picks from a list
References: <3ee8dbd6@shknews01>
Message-ID: <3ee8dd5f$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>

Rogue9 wrote:
> Hi All,
> I?m working on a program for lottery analysing and need to generate
> random numbers from a filtered list of numbers i.e. I have reduced the
> likely ?winning? numbers to a smaller pool and have them in a list.
> How do i use the random funtion in Python to pick random numbers from
> this list?Is this the use of the seq argument in the random function?
> The documentation does not cover the use of all the arguments
> available for this function and my attempts to use if have been a
> failure. Guidance would be very much welcome Pythonistas,
> Thanks
> Lol McBride

Is random.choice() what you seek?

>>> import random
>>> random.choice([1, 5, 3, 4, 756])
4
>>> random.choice([1, 5, 3, 4, 756])
1
>>> random.choice([1, 5, 3, 4, 756])
756
>>> random.choice([1, 5, 3, 4, 756])
756
>>> random.choice([1, 5, 3, 4, 756])
5
>>>

--
Daniel Fackrell (newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com)
When we attempt the impossible, we can experience true growth.





From jarausch at skynet.be  Sun Jun 15 06:44:57 2003
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:44:57 +0200
Subject: Bug - where to report to ?
Message-ID: <3eec4e29$0$28022$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be>

Hi,

what's the canonical place to send bug reports to?

E.g. here is one

cvs version from today,
idle 0.9b1

invoking idle on the command line by

idle -e  Test.py

where the file 'Test.py' doesn't exist yet,
opens a dialog asking whether to open a
non-existing file. That's OK

But saving this file (after entering something)
asks for the filename. IMHO it should take the
name 'Test.py' from above.

Second scenario.

Using  File - Open in the Python-Shell
and entering 'Test.py' where again
this file doesn't exist yet
pops up the same dialog but then
does NOT give me an editor window.

Thanks for idle 0.9

Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jun 27 09:13:16 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:13:16 +0200
Subject: Namespacedifference reading - writing ??
References: <13a533e8.0306270455.431d3cfd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bdhg03$4rf$1@main.gmane.org>

Peter Abel wrote:

> >>> outer()
> x in inner    =Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>   File "<interactive input>", line 7, in outer
>   File "<interactive input>", line 4, in inner
> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'x' referenced before assignment
>
> Is there really a difference in namespacehandling depending
> on writing or reading variables?

you cannot assign to variables in an outer scope (except for the global
scope, in case you have to mark the variable as global).

the details are in the language reference:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/naming.html

</F>







From dave at boost-consulting.com  Fri Jun 20 12:24:40 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:24:40 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com>
 <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <3EEDEDBE.BCB56D6E@engcorp.com> <HGMnCw.5tM@arl.mil>
 <un0gg6ve3.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <873ci7o7c0.fsf@pobox.com>
 <yfsllvx7boi.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <uadcconfm.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <wufgeqrr.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <uadcclnsn.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> writes:
>
>> Has someone really straightened out the situation with Python
>> debuggers?  Last time I looked there was no JIT debugging,
> You can install an except hook which throws you into a debugger when
> an uncatched exception is raised, see
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65287

This helps, thanks!

>>  and no way
>> to set a conditional breakpoint in a long-running test without waiting
>> forever as Python calls the debugger hook on every instruction (or
>> statement, I forget).
>
> Hm, you can simply insert 'import pdb; pdb.set_trace()' into the code.
> No overhead.

This doesn't help.  It requires modification of the source code being
debugged, which is exactly my complaint; it's not much better than
using print statements.  I want to be able to debug without making
changes that might, well, introduce more bugs ;-)

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From avner at skilldesign.com  Fri Jun 20 04:29:19 2003
From: avner at skilldesign.com (Avner Ben)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:29:19 +0200
Subject: ftplib question
References: <3ef19a1c$1@news.012.net.il> <bcsg7l$q5i$3@alto.univ-mlv.fr>
Message-ID: <3ef2c5e2$1@news.012.net.il>

"Steve McAllister" <nosp at m.needed> wrote in message
news:bcsg7l$q5i$3 at alto.univ-mlv.fr...

> You can make no assertion about exactly what you fetch with `LIST'.
> However Unix filesystems will almost always send you an `ls -l'
> output, and others often fake this format.  In this case, the year is
> written if, and only if, it differs from the current one.
>

Steve,

    Thanks to you too!

        Avner.





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun  9 07:28:04 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 07:28:04 -0400
Subject: Postfix/Prefix Operators (++,--)
References: <mailman.1054878191.16140.python-list@python.org> <3EE05E36.40DF739F@engcorp.com> <bbq415$om3$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <3EE0B4D5.736EE894@engcorp.com> <bbqe21$l2h$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <3EE0D19C.7D7FFCA0@engcorp.com> <bbqkmc$ku8$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <3EE14A55.AD00B185@engcorp.com> <bc0ve7$e2fa7$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EE46F44.379E2416@engcorp.com>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > I seem to recall several posts to the effect that this was an
> > unfortunate and/or unexpected and undesirable side-effect of
> > the implementation but that now that it's here, we're sort of
> > stuck with it since people believe code already depends on it.
> 
> Rather, the current semantics make it possible to
> describe the effect of a list comprehension in terms
> of an equivalent for-statement. If the binding behaviour
> were different, the docs would have to add "except that
> it doesn't have a side effect on the loop variable" or
> something like that.

Hmmm... maybe this is a bad precedent to have set.  I
was going to suggest it should have included a 
"finally: del loop_var" and the issue would go away, but then 
you'd have an "expression" which removed the local or
global name binding which was used within it.  Sort of ugly,
that would be.

I suppose this was discussed in the dev group ad nauseum,
so I'll stop there. ;-)

-Peter



From mike at nthwave.net  Sat Jun 21 15:36:07 2003
From: mike at nthwave.net (Michael Mell)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:36:07 -0700
Subject: distutils won't add data file to package dir
Message-ID: <9A8C7194-A41F-11D7-A962-0050E430B472@nthwave.net>

according to the thread at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2000-May/001093.html
it is advised to put static data files in the package directory of a  
Python application.

distutils seems to refuse to do this unless the file has a .py  
extension.
My data file, appropriately, has a .txt extension. It is listed in the  
MANIFEST.

 > python setup.py install
simply ignores the data file.

Here is my setup.py
+ + + + + + + +
from distutils.core import setup

setup (name="Elements",
	author="Mike Mell",
	author_email="mike at nthwave.net",
	url="http://www.nthwave.net/elements/",
	version="1.1.1",
	packages=['Elements']
	)
+ + + + + + + +
I've tried several variations on this.

The data_files option is not appropriate here. As the docs say [1],  
using the data_files option places the data file in sys.prefix -- which  
is definitely not site-packages/Elements.

What am I doing wrong?

thx,
mike

[1]  
http://python.org/doc/current/dist/setup- 
script.html#SECTION000350000000000000000





From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Tue Jun  3 09:37:52 2003
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: 03 Jun 2003 15:37:52 +0200
Subject: adodbapi and py2exe
Message-ID: <873ciri8nj.fsf@flibuste.net>

Hi,

I want to package a script which use adodbapi for msaccess with ado, but
py2exe forget to put a dll : pythoncom22.dll
It's not a big problem, i can add it by hand, but i would like to know
if there is a cleaner solution.

Is there anything else to do to make a clean package ? what about
--progids option of py2exe ? (i don't understand what it means)

Thanks

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net



From Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com  Fri Jun  6 09:59:58 2003
From: Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com (POYEN OP Olivier (DCL))
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:59:58 +0200
Subject: list.index
Message-ID: <8963D6370B323E4AA3241200F0EAF7318C0EEB@FCEXVEXM002.dcl.int.dexwired.net>



> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : delphiro [mailto:delphiro at zonnet.nl]
> Envoy? : vendredi 6 juin 2003 15:50
> ? : python nieuwsgroep
> Objet : list.index
> 

> 
> is this the easiest way to check for the existance of an item 
> in a list?
> it looks a bit weird to check a for a listitem by using a 
> try..except block
> 
> (code background; if the item is found the colour should 
> change else the colour that was already given is ok)
> [mycode]
> try:
>   x = self.selected_points.index( self.pointmarker )
>   colour = DEFAULT_SELECTED_POINT_COLOUR
> except ValueError:
>   pass
> [/mycode]
> 


It seems weird by it's quite ok to do that in python.
AFAIR, I think it's even the purpose of the try/except block.


HTH,

OPQ
 
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From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Mon Jun  9 11:17:05 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 09:17:05 -0600
Subject: signal handling oddity
In-Reply-To: <20030609150013.10541.qmail@green.zadka.com>
References: <20030609143702.B03B326F67@www.fastmail.fm>, <20030609134716.915163335D@www.fastmail.fm>, <Tr9za.228673$pa5.224690@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <3H9za.47086$h42.8645@twister.nyc.rr.com> <Bmbza.211$Iq.22242517@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <d116fbae.0306090531.5d0fd55a@posting.google.com> <20030609142215.9399.qmail@green.zadka.com> <20030609150013.10541.qmail@green.zadka.com>
Message-ID: <20030609151705.BB4E42889E@www.fastmail.fm>

Do you know if twisted supports basic auth?  I had to add code on both
server and client to properly handle basic auth.

On 9 Jun 2003 15:00:13 -0000, "Moshe Zadka" <m at moshez.org> said:
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2003, "Justin Johnson" <justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> 
> > Yeah, I was using twisted before for this server and it did handle
> > control-c correctly.  I was having problems getting authentication to
> > work though, so I ended up moving to SimpleXMLRPCServer and adding some
> > other code to get basic authentication to work.  I'm just not familiar
> > enough with twisted to know what to subclass/override, etc... to get
> > simple user/password authentication to work.
> 
> Well, probably in the render() method of your resource, you do
> the checking of request.headers (there's no problem doing it
> manually), and if they're ok you call the parent's render()
> and otherwise you return a 401.
> -- 
> Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
> Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
> Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with
> shortness.
> Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jun 27 10:33:00 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 10:33:00 -0400
Subject: Year 2000 book still useful?
References: <JVOKa.3738$bJ2.3348@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <bdhkis$cp8$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <JVOKa.3738$bJ2.3348 at newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>,
python newbie <noemail at nospam.com> wrote:
>
>I just realized that the book I recently bought, "The Quick Python
>Book", is dated 2000.
>
>Was wanting to know if there are certain areas where I shouldn't try to
>learn, such as maybe OO concepts, so I don't learn outdated parts of
>python ??

There are lots of new features that won't be covered, but very little
you learn will be invalid.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 23 23:35:59 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:35:59 -0700
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com> <bct498$mnjrt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <8da5fvsnidpjtblgfj4484spso2t9e6r95@4ax.com> <bcuqp3$nl9um$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <rt97fv80g2dguti1okoevk3kmvo6oh14vt@4ax.com> <bd17hu$niu1d$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <u7lcfv85lvutqg8tspgua4qc0454gsd2ie@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bd8gsc$pt2lr$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

John ....

{ 1. Good News | 2. Bad News | 3. Good News } ....

  1. Good News ....

     The last version of word_list.py that I up-loaded
     works as expected with your input file producing
     an indexed word list with no duplicates ...


  2. Bad News ....

     It was  S L O W E R  than the proverbial turtle
     in the tar pit ...

     Console Output follows ....

         python word_list.py JF_In.txt JF_Out.txt

             word_list.py

                 Indexing Words ....  . . . . . . . . .
                 Writing Output File ....

             Complete .................

                Total  Words .... 467381
                Unique Words .... 47122


        Process Time ........ 23611.15 Seconds

      That's 6.56 HOURS and un-acceptable performance !!!!

      word_list.py works quickly on smaller files,
      but as coded, is an absolute dog for indexing
      larger files ....


  3. Good News ....

     Since I  FINALLY  figured out that you're mostly interested
     in just the URLs and not a general word list,
     I coded a pre-process script to extract just the URLs
     from the original input file ....

         python url_list.py JF_In.txt JF_URLs.txt

     Then, use the generated output file from url_list.py
     as input to word_list.py to produce the final sorted file
     with no dups ....

         python word_list.py JF_URLs.txt JF_URLs_Indexed.txt

     These two steps worked quickly ...


Download ....

    http://fastq.com/~sckitching/Python/word_list.zip

    Contains ....

        [ url_list.py | word_list.py | JF_URLs_Indexed.txt ]

Let me know if this output looks closer to what you are after ....

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From donn at drizzle.com  Mon Jun 16 00:15:15 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 04:15:15 -0000
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1055736914.49032@yasure>

Quoth danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop):
| beliavsky at aol.com wrote in message news:<3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0 at posting.google.com>...
...
|> Thus, if I define a function correl(x,y) to compute the correlation of
|> two vectors, which makes sense to me only if x and y are 1-D arrays of
|> real numbers,
|
| But what kind of real numbers?  IEEE double-precision?  Or might you
| someday need a correl function that works with ints (e.g., to compute
| Spearman's correlation coefficient), or arbitrary-precision floats, or
| BCD numbers, or rational numbers, or dimensioned measurements?
|
| As long as your number classes have +, -, *, /, and __float__ (so
| math.sqrt works) defined correctly, you don't have to rewrite your
| correl code to support them.  THAT is the beauty of dynamic typing.

Or the beauty of static typing.  In a rigorously statically typed
language like Haskell, you'd write your function more or less the
same as you would in Python, but the compiler would infer from the
use of +, -, etc. that its parameters are of type Num, and you would
be expected to apply the function to instances of Num - any numeric
type.  Anything else is obviously an error, and your program won't
compile until it makes sense in that respect.

One would think from reading this thread that this would be good
for safety but hard to program for, but it's actually the opposite.
I'm told that type checking is practically irrelevant to safety
critical standards, because the testing needed to meet standards
like that makes type correctness redundant.  But the compiler cleans
up lots of simple errors when you're writing for more casual purposes,
and that saves time and possibly embarrassment.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From t.evans at paradise.net.nz  Tue Jun 10 16:34:16 2003
From: t.evans at paradise.net.nz (Tim Evans)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:34:16 GMT
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <mailman.1055217257.2562.python-list@python.org> <yfsk7buhwas.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <livbevceovhqolcbvnuj6fi3tbv7qnb1ps@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <87u1ax3c53.fsf@cassandra.evansnet>

Courageous <jkraska at san.rr.com> writes:

> > Apart from the fact that the python user community is not by any
> > approximation a subset of the LaTeX community, I find the argument
> > that 'as' is confusing because it is already used in import
> > statements or SQL pretty dubious --
> 
> As well, I. While it would be better on general principle to find a
> better word, if no such word is forthcoming this particular use of
> 'as' isn't at all confusing to me. As you point out, 'as' is a high
> utility English word already. Users ought to be familiar with its
> inherit dynamicity. :)
> 
> C//

Another alternative, that someone brought up last time this discussion
took place, was:


    def spam(cls, x, y) becomes classmethod:
        ...

I think that 'becomes' quite neatly expressed that the modifiers are
added later, so the method is defined, and then becomes a class
method.

-- 
Tim Evans



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Thu Jun 26 00:50:50 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 26 Jun 2003 14:40:50 +0950
Subject: add empty directory using zipfile?
References: <rsmjfvkmc2s46abk236uao8malat1t7q83@4ax.com> <Xns93A64264F1909JanC@213.118.38.24>
Message-ID: <slrnbfl02q.ttf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:31:37 GMT, JanC wrote:
> Tung Wai Yip <tungwaiyip at yahoo.com> schreef:
>> Can I add empty directory using zipfile? When I try to add a
>> directory it complains that it is not a file.
> 
> ZIP files can't contain directories, only files and the paths to those 
> files.  A workaround might be to put an empty file in the directory.

A better solution might be to use tar (or cpio) for archiving, since
they can add directories as well as files, and can also preserve file
permissions from Unix filesystems.

You then get the benefit of choosing whatever compression method you
like for the resultant archive.  gzip and bzip2 both offer superior
compression to the built-in compression for Zip.

-- 
 \       "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the boisterous sea |
  `\                                 of liberty."  -- Thomas Jefferson |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From just at xs4all.nl  Fri Jun  6 09:46:27 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:46:27 +0200
Subject: id(a) == id(b) and a is not b --> bug?
References: <mailman.1054855286.16163.python-list@python.org> <m3r867yaxj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bbq5df$9nm$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr>
Message-ID: <just-50CD50.15462706062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <bbq5df$9nm$1 at alto.univ-mlv.fr>,
 Steve McAllister <nosp at m.needed> wrote:

> And exactly why is {
> 'foo' is 'foo' is 'foo' is 'foo'
> } always true?  This is quite surprising compared to {
> [] is []
> } ...
> Why are not new string literals dynamically created?

Why should they?

Just



From bogus@does.not.exist.com  Mon Jun  2 06:23:00 2003
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:23 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Listing only directories?
References: <3edb2094$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <memo.20030602112315.247A@xqp.cix.co.uk>

In article <3edb2094$1 at mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>, richardd at hmgcc.gov.uk (Richard) 
wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am using os.listdir(root) to get a file and directory listing of the
> 'root' directory. However I am trying to filter out only the directories 
> in
> this listing.
> 
> I have tried the following (after reading up in the manual):
> 
> def listDirectories(root):
>     [f for f in os.listdir(root) if os.path.isdir(f)]
>     return f
> 
> but this doesn't seem to do what I want it to, only seeming to return the
> name of one of the directories it finds.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong, and if I'm barking up completely
> the wrong tree?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Richard D

You're nearly there. You want to return the list, but you're actually 
returning 'f' which, as you say, is set to one of the directories. You 
should return the list directly or assign it a variable and return that.

def listDirectories1(root):
     # assigning 'f' is confusing, but works
     f = [f for f in os.listdir(root) if os.path.isdir(f)]
     return f

def listDirectories2(root):
     # assigning 'g' is easier, but unnecessary
     g = [f for f in os.listdir(root) if os.path.isdir(f)]
     return g

def listDirectories3(root):
     return [f for f in os.listdir(root) if os.path.isdir(f)]

HTH

Martin



From usenet at soraia.com  Sun Jun  1 15:01:50 2003
From: usenet at soraia.com (Joe Francia)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 19:01:50 GMT
Subject: Zope with Apache on shared hosting account
In-Reply-To: <62e69c0c.0305310449.762b9e00@posting.google.com>
References: <62e69c0c.0305310449.762b9e00@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EDA4DC4.2080805@soraia.com>

HW wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to install zope on my account on a shared web server (ie
> no root access).  Is this possible?  I find lots of how-to's for
> Zope/Apache, PCGI, RewriteRules, etc, but everyone seems to assume you
> have root privleges, can recompile Apache, etc.
> 
> Thanks for any help you can provide.
> 
> -Lost in Sydney :(

I tried all sorts of ways to get this to work without root access on my 
old provider, to no avail.  I finally broke down and went with another, 
somewhat pricier provider that specializes in Zope+Apache and gives you 
root access in a FreeBSD jail (http://imeme.net if you're curious).

jf




From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Sat Jun 14 21:32:47 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 01:32:47 GMT
Subject: MSW crash with <refcnt 0 at ...>
In-Reply-To: <246a4e07.0306140200.326098b@posting.google.com>
References: <246a4e07.0306120739.74dd977a@posting.google.com> <5JhGa.3746$GU5.51113@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <246a4e07.0306140200.326098b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <31QGa.5483$GU5.83649@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Unfortunately, win32all-150 has that bug already applied. 
Unfortunately, I am a little stuck on what to do, as I don't have a 
database to test against.  Anyone listenening who has a debug build of 
win32all and an ODBC database to connect to should be able to provide me 
with alot more info (or even just a database I can connect to remotely).

Could you please open a bug in the pywin32 project at sourceforge?

Mark.

Frank Millman wrote:

> Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message news:<5JhGa.3746$GU5.51113 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> 
>>Frank Millman wrote:
>>
>>>Can anyone explain what is going on? Thanks in advance.
>>
>>It smells like a reference count bug in the ODBC module.  What win32all 
>>version are you using?  I have no database to test against, but if you 
>>can reduce it down to the absolute minimum code needed to crash, I may 
>>still be able to find it.
>>
>>If you have an old win32all or ActivePython, please check the date - a 
>>quick check of the log for the ODBC module shows the following checkin:
>>
>>revision 1.5
>>date: 2001/06/18 06:57:21;  author: mhammond;  state: Exp;  lines: +7 -7
>>Patches from Alex Martelli that solves some crashes under error conditions.
>>
>>A later ODBC module may fix your problem.
>>
>>Mark.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the prompt reply, Mark.
> 
> I am not sure how to check the version of win32all, but the
> installation program is win32all-150.exe, so it looks as if it is
> version 1.5. I downloaded it late last year.
> 
> Here is a smaller version of my program that still crashes.
> 
> ######################################################
> 
> import odbc
> db = odbc.odbc('frank/Adminstrator')
> # c = db.cursor()    # [1]
> 
> def update():
>     c = db.cursor()  # [2]
>     try:
>         c.execute("insect into fmtest values ('F001','FGH
> Ltd','Frank','1234567')")
>         return ['success']
>     except:
>         return ['fail']
> 
> print update()
> 
> ######################################################
> 
> Note the deliberate spelling error "insect" intead of "insert". This
> is an easier way of ensuring that the insert fails.
> 
> Another clue - note the lines flagged [1] and [2]. The former declares
> the cursor outside the function, the latter declares it inside. If I
> run the program with line [1] active and line [2] commented out, the
> error does not occur.
> 
> Let me know if I can supply any further information.
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Frank




From achrist at easystreet.com  Mon Jun 16 16:21:23 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:21:23 -0700
Subject: Python as a Language Choice
References: <bckvg4$kdoar$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EEE26C2.E82D1EC9@easystreet.com>

One thing that is important to me is that the quality of the freely
available python releases is very high.  I've had problems with bugs
in compilers and core libraries of other languages from the big-name
software vendors, but I don't recall that ever happening with python.

Al
 


Cousin Stanley wrote:
> 
> Someone in another NewsGroup asked
> why I had picked Python as a language of choice ...
> 
> I offered the following reply
> and would be interested in hearing from others
> of any obvious ommisions that I may have made
> and as to why they might have chosen Python as well ...
> 
> Stanley C. Kitching
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I've been programming other languages
> since about 1966 but am a relative Python rookie
> having used it for only a little over a year ...
> 
> As for Python as a language of choice,
> I would include the following ...
> 
>    o Free ... Open-Source ... Cross-Platform ...
> 
>    o Easy to learn, easy to use, and VERY readable ...
> 
>    o Power/Punch ratio is fairly high ...
> 
>         That is, get a lot of work done
>         in only a few lines of code ...
> 
>    o Very active and friendly development community
>      centered in comp.lang.python where one can read
>      and learn from daily posts by the authors themselves
>      of popular and current Python books and modules ...
> 
>    o Large and diverse set of Application Programming Interfaces
>      available in many areas ...
> 
>    o Multiple choice for GUI programming ...
> 
>          [ Tk | GTK | QT | wxPy | others ... ]
> 
>    o Core languange is readily extensible through
>      and embeddable in other languages ...
> 
> --
> Cousin Stanley
> Human Being
> Phoenix, Arizona



From tireseas at onetel.com  Fri Jun 20 15:25:43 2003
From: tireseas at onetel.com (valhalla)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:25:43 +0100
Subject: Tricks with timers
Message-ID: <200306202025.43525.tireseas@onetel.com>

Hello

To get around the previously stated problem of using a timer-like function in 
a guessing game to limit the amount of time a player has to guess the correct 
number, I have used the following:

   signal.signal( signal.SIGALRM, timer )
   signal.alarm( ticktock )

where timer is a function that prints "Time's Up!!" and 'ticktock' is a 
variable passed a value from input("time needed: ").

That actually works quite well. The next piece of the puzzle is to find a way 
in which I can do the equivalent of a break from the timer, so that if the 
correct answer is guessed *within* the allotted time, the ticktock is 
returned to zero and the timer function is suspended until the next game.

I don't want to use sys.exit(0), because I don't want the program to stop, 
just the one function. Would I be using SIGINT or SIGKILL or something along 
those lines to reset the game for a new time limit to be entered? The 
documentation that I've looked at for this discuss these options, but to be 
honest I cannot really figure out whether they are what I am looking for 
given the problem described.

TIA

Andy

-- 
====================
||  Reg. Linux User: 313143 ||
====================
Sign the Petition:
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/endtcpa1/




From jgrossberg at matrixgroup.net  Fri Jun 27 12:19:06 2003
From: jgrossberg at matrixgroup.net (Joe Grossberg)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:19:06 -0400
Subject: OFF TOPIC: What did Guido say?
In-Reply-To: <20030627160006.17217.11679.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20030627160006.17217.11679.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3EFC6E7A.8060806@matrixgroup.net>

>So Linus speaks Swedish even though he's a Finn?
>
Yes. Even though he grew up in Finland, he is part of the sizeable 
ethnic-Swedish minority. Torvalds is a Swedish name.

(per "Just for Fun", his autobiography)

Joe

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------
Joe Grossberg :: Programmer :: jgrossberg at matrixgroup.net
http://www.matrixmaxx.net/ :: Custom Web Solutions and 
Web-Based Association Management Software.






From marks.pryorSHRUB at CHENEYverizon.net  Sun Jun 22 19:41:56 2003
From: marks.pryorSHRUB at CHENEYverizon.net (Mark S Pryor)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:41:56 GMT
Subject: Win32 and the MENUITEMINFO structure
Message-ID: <89rJa.19896$hI1.4315@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

Hello,

Maybe I missed something. Using ActivePython 2.2
and Win2k sp3, I see no way to read a
    MENUITEMINFO structure.

To get this functionality I coded some VB and
exposed some methods via COM to Python. What other
options do I have to implement non-MFC code to be
able to use this structure.

You can see the sample VB API code here
    http://mysite.verizon.net/res1ur2j/menuinfo.zip

Is it possible to make a PYD for this code (after
conversion to C) using Visual Studio? I've never
done this before, but I have at least one sample.

tia,
Mark Pryor
AIM:tlviewer





From no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid  Tue Jun 10 09:49:12 2003
From: no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid (Robert Oschler)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:49:12 GMT
Subject: Access "slot" field dynamically?
Message-ID: <sllFa.660$Hw.844355@news2.news.adelphia.net>

I want to pass a list of field names (slot names?) that represent the slots
in a class instance, and have a method do something with them.  For example

class HasSlots(object):
    __slots__ = 'fldone', 'fldtwo', 'fldthree'
    def __init__(self):
        self.fldone = ""
        self.fldtwo = ""
        self.fldthree = ""
    # END: __init__
# END: class HasSlots()

def printSomeFields(instance_of_hasslot, fldlist):
    for fl in fldlist:
        # Here is where I don't know the syntax for
        #  accessing a field of instance_of_hasslot, by
        #  using a Python string that contains the
        # desired field name.
# END: printSomeFields

In the block belonging to "printSomeFields()", how do I access the field
(slot) by grabbing the field name from the fldlist list of strings?

    print instance_of_hasslot.fl

doesn't work.

thx
--
Robert Oschler,
Android Technologies, Inc.
http://www.androidtechnologies.com
- The home of Off-Book! (tm)
The scene memorization tool for Actors and Actresses!





From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Wed Jun  4 21:39:46 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 01:39:46 GMT
Subject: PythonWin menu
In-Reply-To: <wopDa.16714$pK2.22853@news.indigo.ie>
References: <wopDa.16714$pK2.22853@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <CbxDa.5221$7E.59423@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Ilariu Raducan wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> Using pythonwin as the framework for an application, at init time I 
> create some menu entries.
> Every time a document is focused (a MDIChild frame) the menu is replaced 
>   with the menu of that document(in my case the standard text document 
> and Tools menu of the PythonWin IDE.
> 
> How can I display only my menus?
> Is it possible to have some menus displayed all the time, for each 
> document type?

You are really going to need to dig into the Pythonwin sources to track 
this down, and see what is available.  All this functionality should be 
in .py files in the pywin tree.  A number of products have created 
applications with completely custom frames and menus, so it can be done.

Mark.




From stephan.diehl at gmx.net  Fri Jun 27 12:03:15 2003
From: stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:03:15 +0200
Subject: OT: RfD for German Newsgroup:  de.comp.lang.python
References: <bdhnmq$so8vb$1@ID-1025.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bdhpq0$cua$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Harald Stowasser wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I need support. Are here any german users? Because I want to write a RfD
> (Request for Discussion) to create the new News de.comp.lang.python group

Try the german mailing list:
http://python.net/mailman/listinfo/python-de

> 
> I'd also like to know, if you would change to de.comp.lang.python.

probably not (one more source to check)

Stephan





From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sat Jun 21 06:37:33 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:37:33 +1000
Subject: GUI interactive prompt with non-text output
In-Reply-To: <20030621180140.95B5E35244@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <000201c337e1$234130b0$a300a8c0@emilio>

James Tauber wrote:
> Is anyone aware of extensions to a GUI interactive prompt (such as
that
> in IDLE) where the statements executed might be able to produce a
> graphical output after the input prompt as well as text (as you would
get
> if you did a "print").
> 
> I'm thinking along the lines of Mathematica, although another useful
> mental picture might be a board game where you enter your move at a
> prompt and then the board is drawn before giving you another prompt
> (which the ability to scroll back to see the boards after each move).

Have a look at PyCrust - see http://www.orbtech.com/www/PyManual.html
Or if want a higher level interface to wxPython, try PythonCard (see
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/) - see Figure 5 of the turtle example
at http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/samples/turtle.html - is that what
you had in mind?

Tim C







From warlock at eskimo.com  Sun Jun 15 16:20:48 2003
From: warlock at eskimo.com (Jim Richardson)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:20:48 -0700
Subject: getting info out of a list.
References: <7tntr-qa9.ln1@grendel.myth> <mailman.1055667207.5601.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <021vr-j3n.ln1@grendel.myth>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 15 Jun 2003 01:51:26 -0700,
 Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at attbi.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2003-06-15 at 01:38, Jim Richardson wrote:
>> I have the following code 
>> 
>> for wires in wirelist.keys():
>>         bits=wirelist[wires]
>>         Wire=("GW",wires,bits)
>>         print Wire
> 
> Does this do what you want?
> 
> for wires in wirelist.keys():
>     bits=wirelist[wires]
>     Wire=("GW",wires) + bits
>     print Wire
> 
> Regards, 
> 

Yes, that was the bit I missed, the addition, thanks to all. 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE+7NUfd90bcYOAWPYRAvFjAKCy/5LWvZ4TgwaPIdbFHpMfQUkAgwCeMk6s
ijpM73bRDMat/i3Vubk3LNY=
=SbHq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
Jim Richardson         http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock

Linux, because eventually, you grow up enough to be trusted with a fork()



From pifpafpuf at gmx.de  Sat Jun 28 15:19:04 2003
From: pifpafpuf at gmx.de (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 28 Jun 2003 12:19:04 -0700
Subject: jython and PYTHONPATH
Message-ID: <16990fa4.0306281119.1e8194d3@posting.google.com>

Jython does not seem to care about PYTHONPATH:

ruddigore:jython-2.1) setenv PYTHONPATH blarg
ruddigore:jython-2.1) ./jython
Jython 2.1 on java1.4.2-beta (JIT: null)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys; print sys.path
['', '/tmp_mnt/net_nfs6/vol1/homes/kirsch/tmp/jython-2.1/.',
'/homes/kirsch/tmp/jython-2.1/Lib']
>>>

How is sys.path initialized in Jython?

  Harald Kirsch



From marcus.bergmann at isst.fhg.de  Fri Jun 13 11:23:05 2003
From: marcus.bergmann at isst.fhg.de (Marcus Bergmann)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:23:05 +0200
Subject: insert thousands separators
References: <3EE9E548.9010701@isst.fhg.de> <3EE9E889.1090107@draigBrady.com>
Message-ID: <3EE9EC59.3070409@isst.fhg.de>

P at draigBrady.com wrote:
> Marcus Bergmann wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> how can I insert thousands separators into an integer or a string, 
>> e.g. 1000000 to 1.000.000?
> 
> 
> import locale
> 
> #this sets locale automatically (according to LC_ALL environment)
> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL,'')

This sets locale to 'C'. Alternatively I can set it to 'de' (german). 
'us' and others are not supported on my system.

> 
> print locale.format("%d",1000000,1)

I still get 1000000 as output.

> 
> P?draig.
> 

Marcus





From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jun 11 16:07:53 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 15:07:53 -0500
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <20030611183344.GA5575@nl.linux.org>
References: <mailman.1055217438.10041.python-list@python.org>
	 <dd5454fb.0306101346.201331fc@posting.google.com>
	 <3EE65444.907E6D87@alcyone.com>
	 <mailman.1055283799.2307.python-list@python.org>
	 <3EE6646E.47555429@alcyone.com>
	 <mailman.1055286920.18421.python-list@python.org>
	 <3EE67C20.941FCA51@alcyone.com>
	 <mailman.1055319116.28014.python-list@python.org>
	 <slrnbee8cs.rev.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net>
	 <20030611183344.GA5575@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <1055362073.678.917.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-06-11 at 13:33, Gerrit Holl wrote:
> Andrew Walkingshaw wrote:
> > > I think "as" is a perfectly good keyword, and no other suggestion I've
> > > seen is better.  It reads well and it represents the underlying
> > > implementation fairly well.  And "as" is already (kind of) a keyword, so
> > > all the better.  It was an early suggestion, and a good one -- I don't
> > > know why people are working it over so much.
> > 
> > Because we haven't anything better to do? :)
> > 
> > Another option which comes to mind, assuming that these function
> > decorators work the way I think they do, is "applying":
> > 
> > def f(x,y,z) applying (decorator1, decorator2):
> 
> How about "def f() alteritaccordingto (decorator1, decorator2):"

def f() notaplainfunctionactuallya (decorator1, decorator2):

def f() as decorator2(decorator1(x)) for x in y():

class f(method):
    def __call__(): ...

> Maybe Bar should be a class, so that using multiple inheritance,
> foo will be isinstance(foo, bar). This will also easy checking
> 'am-i-a-classmethod' easier.

Well, classmethod *is* a class, and isinstance(classmethod(foo),
classmethod) is true.  But classmethod instances are descriptors, so
you'd have to do something like isinstance(Bar.__dict__['foo'],
classmethod) to actually figure it out.

  Ian






From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jun 28 17:18:11 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 14:18:11 -0700
Subject: Have I broken my installation?
References: <b8crfvcsd8pit555p24rrc19f05a9578pb@4ax.com> <m3d6gyjizz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <2verfvseu4k82h66g3l2co8mhnc2pe334p@4ax.com> <01hrfv8e7j4c7qi2gtcitlfurd749cg7su@4ax.com> <m3znk2hz21.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <9qmrfv0270kvqa6cr8t4r4i1dve04nhbug@4ax.com> <m3r85ehxgs.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <lesrfv8me506t1uk1o09iur0jm1ku40e3n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EFE0613.9506096@alcyone.com>

Matt Mower wrote:

> I made one small adjustment, specifying the --prefix=/opt/python
> option to put PyXML in the same directory as Python 2.2.

Well, that's your problem right there.  Note the symptomology of what
Martin von Loewis asked you to test -- it prints different things for
your interactive usage and the CGI script.

> My entire Python developing experience runs to about an afternoons
> worth so I have no idea why PyXML isn't working or isn't being found.

That's because the problem you're running into here is a difference in
environment between you running the program in your interactive shell
and Apache running it as nobody.  It's a general Unix issue, not
specific to Python.

> Can you suggest anything?

The problem is that you've installed PyXML in /opt/python, which is a
nonstandard place -- though that isn't in and of itself wrong if you
know what you're doing.  You've obviously adjusted your interactive
environment to look in /opt/python, since you're running the scripts
without problems locally, but CGI scripts do not run in your
environment, and so aren't seeing what you've installed in /opt/python,
since that is a nonstandard place.  For a quick remedy, add something
like this:

	import sys
	sys.path.append('/opt/python')

to the top of your script.  A more permanent solution would involve
adding it to /usr/local/lib/pythonX.Y/site.py.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Every astronaut who goes up knows the risks he or she faces.
\__/  Sally Ride



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 25 07:32:34 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:32:34 +0100
Subject: Newbie: "compiling" scrips (?)
References: <bdbrv2$9un$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3EF98852.9AD177E7@hotmail.com>

Thomas Weber wrote:

> But I have some problems to execute my scripts (in Linux, bash) that I
> wrote in an editor.

It might help if you told us what you have already tried that didn't work. 

Generally, scripts are executed in one of three ways

1. Typed directly into a command line interpreter or IDE (Integrated Developed
Environment), and executed as they are typed.

2. They are created in a text editor, and executed by instructing the python
interpreter to execute them, like so

python myscriptfile.py

3. They are initiated by your *nix shell. For this to work, you need to have
what is called a "shebang line" as the first line of your script, e.g.

#myscriptfile------------------------
#!/usr/bin/python
for x in range(5):
    print "Hello world!"
#------------------------------------

and your script needs to have the execute bit set (man "chmod" for more details)

bash>myscriptfile
Hello World!
Hello World!
Hello World!
Hello World!
Hello World!

> Is there a way to compile the scripts into binary form like
> like in C: 'gcc source.c -o binary'
> Sorry, if this was a silly question...

No, not a silly question, quite the opposite in fact. However, you'll just
confuse yourself thinking like that if you are just starting with python.

If I were you, I'd start with method 1 above, and then progress through methods
2 and 3 when you're more familiar with what's happening.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From and-google at doxdesk.com  Fri Jun 13 09:10:45 2003
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 06:10:45 -0700
Subject: Saving Files Under Windows
References: <3EE993CB.F2CE7D39@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0306130510.5d3b82bd@posting.google.com>

achrist at easystreet.com wrote:

> Are there new rules under Windows 2000 or XP that restrict in which folders
> users can or should be saving their data?

They're not entirely new; paths like this have been configurable back to
Win9X, and are in any case likely to be different on different language
installations.

> Do the python libs or the python win32api give me any function
> that I can call to find out where I should be creating output files
> for users?

Don't know of anything Python-specific, but you can use the winreg module:

  http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module--winreg.html

to read the contents of the registry, eg. key:

  \Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders 

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/



From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Jun 17 03:17:53 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:17:53 +0200
Subject: Getting Instance of calling class
Message-ID: <bcmfbb$kih2v$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Hi!

I have a function called _() which prints 
strings according to the language of the user.

I don't want to give this method the object which
holds the language information every time I call it.

How can I access the calling object?

Background: This is a python product for zope.
My main object holds the prefered language of each
user. 

I found no way to get a reference to my main
object from _(). Global variables are no solution
since there could be several main objects and there
are multiple threads.

 thomas




From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Sun Jun 22 23:44:18 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:44:18 +1200
Subject: ANN: Pyrex 0.8
Message-ID: <mailman.1056341223.23258.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Pyrex 0.8 is now available:

    http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/

This release introduces a new compile-time import mechanism
for sharing declarations between Pyrex modules, and a new
and better way of getting access to external extension
types. There are also a few other improvements and bug
fixes.

Note: There is a small backwards-incompatible change
that will require you to make a slight modification to any
'extern' extension type declarations that you have.

See the CHANGES.txt file for full details.

What is Pyrex?
--------------

Pyrex is a new language for writing Python extension modules.
It lets you freely mix operations on Python and C data, with
all Python reference counting and error checking handled
automatically.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg





From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jun 11 18:30:12 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:30:12 -0700
Subject: Looking for the greatest negative float value
References: <bc7lvb$gm3$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr> <mailman.1055368822.7604.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE7AD74.6E125163@alcyone.com>

Gerrit Holl wrote:

> Hmm. I think you are looking for -float('inf'). That is
> the greatest negative float value, since it is <n for each
> n.

Then we get into discussions about whether the IEEE infinity really
warrants being described as a "value."  :-)

Besides, I'm pretty sure that whether or not IEEE is the chosen
implementation or indeed whether it's known as 'inf' (thus making
float('inf') legitimate) is dependent on the interpreter.  Python itself
makes no guarantees about such things.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ If I had another face, do you think I'd wear this one?
\__/  Abraham Lincoln



From michaels at rd.bbc.co.uk  Fri Jun  6 05:23:45 2003
From: michaels at rd.bbc.co.uk (Michael Sparks)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 02:23:45 -0700
Subject: Yield inside try...finally
References: <bbiisd$76k$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <3EDCEC1F.96CB0766@hotmail.com> <bbkbi5$n97$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <3EDDEEB2.5B55DE68@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <1cbe61a5.0306060123.77eaf1b0@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote :
...
> Note the wink:

I did :)

> Sounds about right, for a fairly broad definition of "state machine",
> but that will do for a start.

I've implemented what Twisted calls "deferreds" for Perl's POE in the past,
which is why I view it that way. It might be a misconception though.

> [ ... and other good points regarding Twisted, and pointer at Flow
>   and a pointer at a recent relevant thread "Help with coroutine-based
>    state machines" ]

Thanks for the pointers - I'll take a look. I've been working on this
approach for a few months now and so far it seems to be nicely panning
out. (If I could talk about details I would!)

Regards,


Michael.
--
Michael.Sparks at rd.bbc.co.uk
British Broadcasting Corporation, Research and Development
Kingswood Warren, Surrey KT20 6NP

This message (and any attachments) may contain personal views
which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.



From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Mon Jun  2 15:51:48 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 19:51:48 GMT
Subject: Python get's a mention on University Challenge
References: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <oVNCa.1036$Fu.151433@twister.nyc.rr.com>

"language programmers brag about"
:)

--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]


"Irmen de Jong" <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl...
> John Ochiltree wrote:
> > Hi all, thought you may like to know that the UK TV programme
> > 'University Challenge' of 2nd June has just had 'The Python Programming
> > Language' as the answer to a question in a round about programming
> > languages (the other languages were Pascal and Eiffel).
>
> What was the question?
>
> --Irmen
>





From johnf at jfcomputer.com  Sun Jun 15 18:48:36 2003
From: johnf at jfcomputer.com (JOHN FABIANI)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 15:48:36 -0700
Subject: [General lang] how to call a parent
In-Reply-To: <20030615165309.GA24545@unpythonic.net>
References: <F%0Ha.261$WW3.30765151@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	 <20030615165309.GA24545@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <1055717316.12906.2.camel@linuxsrv.jfcomputer.com>

I never thought of keeping a linked list of the parents of an object but
that will work.  Thanks to all for the info.  I'm also checking on the
reserved work 'super'.  I'm reading an older book.

John

On Sun, 2003-06-15 at 09:53, Jeff Epler wrote:
> What is the "parent" of an object?  For instance given
> 
> class Z: pass
> 
> a = Z()
> b = Z()
> c = Z()
> 
> a.kids = [c]
> b.kids = [c]
> 
> it's clear that c is-a kid of a, and c is-a kid of b, so what is c's
> parent?  Python can have any sort of directed graph for objects, not just a
> tree, so the language doesn't define the parent of an object.
> 
> However, if you work only with objects of your own devising, you can keep
> track of the parent/child relationship:
> 	class FamilyTree:
> 		def __init__(self, name, parent=None):
> 			self.name = name
> 			self.kids = []
> 			self.parent = None
> 			if parent is not None: parent.add(self)
> 
> 		def add(self, kid):
> 			if kid.parent:
> 				kid.parent.kids.remove(kid)
> 			kid.parent = self
> 			self.kids.append(kid)
> 
> 		def newkid(self, name):
> 			return FamilyTree(name, self)
> 
> 		def __repr__(self):
> 			return ("<%s with %d kids>"
> 				% (self.name, len(self.kids)))
> >>> from ft import FamilyTree
> >>> a = FamilyTree("a")
> >>> b = FamilyTree("b", a) # or b = a.newkid("b")
> >>> c = FamilyTree("c", b)
> 
> >>> print b, b.parent      # B has a kid, and the right parent
> <b with 1 kids> <a with 1 kids>
> >>> print c, c.parent      # C has no kids and the right parent
> <c with 0 kids> <b with 1 kids>
> >>> a.add(c)               # A adopts C (B was bad parent?)
> >>> print b, b.parent      # B now has 1 kid, A now has 2
> <b with 0 kids> <a with 2 kids>
> >>> print c.parent         # sure enough, C's parent is A
> <a with 2 kids>
> 
> a = FamilyTree("a")
> b = FamilyTree("b", a)
> c = FamilyTree("c", b)
> 
> Jeff
> 




From benoit.besse at club-internet.fr  Thu Jun 19 15:34:54 2003
From: benoit.besse at club-internet.fr (Benoit BESSE)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:34:54 +0200
Subject: Binary Header
References: <3ef1bf20$0$14311$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr> <3EF1C7AE.DC43ECF6@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3ef2105e$0$14316$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

Thanks a lots, yopu're right but you have to change
class bf(object): to class bf:

BB

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> a ?crit dans le message de
news:3EF1C7AE.DC43ECF6 at engcorp.com...
> Benoit BESSE wrote:
> >
> > How can I translate a list of int into binary. The struct.pack('!B',...)
> > need only integer.
> > I want to have a 8 bit value which represent by
> > V (3 bit) = 1
> > A (1 bit) = 0
> > R (1 bit) = 0
> > T (1 bit) = 0 or 1
> > E (1 bit) = 0
> > C (1 bit) = 0
> > Can I pack (1,0,0,1,0,0) ?
>
> You may find this recipe helpful:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/113799
>
> It looks like you could do this (untested):
>
> >>> val = bf()
> >>> v = t = 1
> >>> a = r = e = c = 0
> >>> val[5:8], val[4:5], val[3:4], val[2:3], val[1:2], val[0:1] = v, a, r,
t, e, c
>
> then you would expect to see
>
> >>> print hex(int(val))
> 0x24
>
> If it's not quite the right interface: change it!  It's just a "recipe",
> not a final solution.
>
> -Peter





From sami.viitanen at nokia.com  Wed Jun 11 07:35:11 2003
From: sami.viitanen at nokia.com (Sami Viitanen)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:35:11 GMT
Subject: File type recognition
Message-ID: <PtEFa.37873$ws6.760666@news2.nokia.com>

Hi,


Does anyone know if there is a python script that can recognize the file
type ie. is the file content binary or text.





From jfabiani at yolo.com  Sun Jun 15 19:01:46 2003
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (John Fabiani)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:01:46 GMT
Subject: [General lang] how to call a parent
References: <F%0Ha.261$WW3.30765151@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <bci7e2$e3t$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <uV6Ha.289$Ld5.35571863@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

I'm just starting to use python and playing with the tools and the language. 
After building a few small windows (via BOA) I realized that I did not know
how to create a class that allowed reuse in a general way.  I was testing
how classes are used.  I was able create properties, call the __init__ of
the parent class .etc  But then I realized I did not have a way to call a
parent of control - such as a container.  Also I was not aware of "super". 
I'm guessing that will help.  Still learning!!!!!!!!!!!!
John

Aahz wrote:

> In article <F%0Ha.261$WW3.30765151 at newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
> John Fabiani  <jfabiani at yolo.com> wrote:
>>
>>I'm a newbie to the Python world but not programming.  In the Visual
>>Foxpro world we have the concept of ?parent?.  I normally use it to
>>set properties of a custom control as in ?parent.background.color =
>>blue?.  The parent in this case is a container.  In the VFP world we
>>have ?thisform, this, and parent? and all class methods are run unless
>>overwritten by the child class.  Anyway, I'd know how to call the
>>parent of an object.  BTW if I'm all wrong with this idea would someone
>>explain why!
> 
> It's not that you're all wrong as that what you're describing is a
> special form of object protocol that primarily applies in GUI design.
> You can certainly perform this kind of operation in Python, but unless
> you're using a framework, it's not automatic.  Before I (or other
> people) give you specific advice about the best way to implement this,
> it'd be good if you gave us more information about what you're trying to
> accomplish.

-- 
John Fabiani



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jun 13 21:35:42 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 01:35:42 GMT
Subject: insert thousands separators
References: <3EE9E548.9010701@isst.fhg.de> <yyyvfv9hpj9.fsf@adams.patriot.net> <mailman.1055529144.29572.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcdu5e$chh$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:38:42 -0600, Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

>Quoth Nick Vargish:
>  [...]
>> def commafy(val):
>>     """Returns a string version of val with commas every thousandth
>>     place."""
>>     return val < 0 and '-' + commafy(abs(val)) \
>>            or val < 1000 and str(val) \
>>            or commafy(val / 1000) + ',' + commafy(val % 1000)
>
>A wee bug:
>
>    >>> commafy(1001)
>    '1,1'
>
>I believe
>
>    return val < 0 and '-' + commafy(abs(val)) \
>        or val < 1000 and str(val) \
>        or commafy(val / 1000) + ',' + '%03d' % (val % 1000)
>
>is correct.
Oops. That's embarassing ;-/ Sorry Nick, I did that just interactively,
and didn't test very well, I'm afraid. I guess I would do that corrections as

def commafy(val):
    return val < 0 and '-' + commafy(abs(val)) \
        or val < 1000 and str(val) \
        or '%s,%03d' % (commafy(val / 1000), (val % 1000))


>
>Avoiding recursion seems reasonable, though:
Sure, there were a number of variations. I just wanted to throw in something
different, and was too hasty.
>
>    def digits(value, base=10):
>        value = abs(value)
>        d = []
>        while True:
>            value, r = divmod(value, base)
>            d.append(r)
>            if not value:
>                break
>        d.reverse()
>        return d
>
>    def commafy(val):
>        d = digits(val, 1000)
>        d[0] = str(d[0])
>        if val < 0:
>            d[0] = '-' + d[0]
>        for i in range(1, len(d)):
>            d[i] = '%03d' % d[i]
>        return ','.join(d)
>
>  [...]

Yet another non-recursive variant (not extensively tested ;-/ ):

def commafy(val):
    sign, val, rest = '-'[:val<0], str(abs(val)), []
    while val: val, rest = val[:-3], ([val[-3:]] + rest)
    return sign + ','.join(rest)

or possibly

def commafy(val):
    sign, val, rest = '-'[:val<0], str(abs(val)), ''
    while val: val, rest = val[:-3], '%s,%s'%(val[-3:], rest)
    return sign + rest[:-1]
 
Regards,
Bengt Richter



From ngps at netmemetic.com  Thu Jun 12 20:50:59 2003
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 00:50:59 GMT
Subject: m2crypto  documentation
References: <457a5e09.0303260257.4c37287a@posting.google.com> <457a5e09.0303310228.71205e68@posting.google.com> <GOYDa.65001$Ny5.1955504@twister2.libero.it> <u70Fa.73514$lK4.2219963@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <bcb75j$uhs$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Glauco  <glauco at sferacarta.com>:
> Someone has idea where i can find it ?

There isn't much, and it appears I've left them out inadvertently in recent
releases.

You can find an S/MIME programming how-to, a ZSmime (Zope DTML tag to send
S/MIME mail) how-to, plus some contributed setup how-to's on my website.

I was writing an SSL programming how-to, but I found Docbook too much
trouble and stopped.

I now write stuff using ZReST, with Zope as the CMS. Files, I mean, Zope
objects, are accessed via Emacs/ange-ftp. Much better. 


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  9 14:21:17 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 12:21:17 -0600
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.51.0306092035070.19856@techunix.technion.ac.il>; from cben@techunix.technion.ac.il on Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 08:47:45PM +0300
References: <mailman.1055139135.30925.python-list@python.org> <6qptlnux3w.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <Pine.GSO.4.51.0306092035070.19856@techunix.technion.ac.il>
Message-ID: <20030609122117.D1359@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Beni Cherniavsky:
  [...]
> So if it's already an instance and there are two objects and the
> second object is not None, let's treat it as a traceback.  More magic,
> less hassle.  Wait, we wanted less magic - but this is OK <wink>.  I
> even propose this part to be put into 2.3.

I don't think this meets Bernard's objective, which is to have
traceback-using raise statements which run on all 2.x without
warnings.  Whatever is done with 2.3 (and I doubt at this point
any such change would be accepted), only the three-argument form
will work in <= 2.2, and it is exactly this form for which the PEP
proposes warnings in >= 2.4.

Your suggestion does, however, obviate the need for the future
statement, at the cost of, as you say, more magic during the
transition period.

> This reminds us of the question what is an instance.  This is hard to
> define with new-style classes but "anything that is not callable" is a
> good definition (because if it's a class we want to call it anyway).
> When this PEP will be executed completely, this question can be
> dropped because the first object will be assumed to always be an
> instance.

One reason for the PEP, in fact.  (Though only alluded to briefly
in the Motivation section.)

Another approach is to require that exceptions be instances of
Exception.  Then we could do
    if isinstance(first_obj, Exception):
        # first_obj is exception object
    elif issubclass(first_obj, Exception):
        # instantiate implicitly
    else:
        # error
Then eventually Exception could be made new-style without an
instance/class detection problem, I think.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                 o- @
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      7O   )
                                                               "  (




From Hans.Aschauer at Physik.uni-muenchen.de  Fri Jun 20 07:50:24 2003
From: Hans.Aschauer at Physik.uni-muenchen.de (Hans Aschauer)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:50:24 +0200
Subject: Binding of C code
References: <mailman.1056102576.15928.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcuse1$9ua$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>

Roberto Cavada wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
>     I need to bind C code written with a object-oriented style.
> For example suppose you need to bind this two "classes" (sorry, it's a
> bit long, but easy to read):

[... code snipped...] 


> How can I bind these structures into two equivalent python classes?
> The idea here is that I can use Class A methods on instances of Class B.
> 
> I know the gobject library, but I'd like to avoid to depend on it.
> I think that SWIG cannot handle this stuff, am I wrong?
> Is there a tool that can generate the correct binding? If there is
> not, how would it be possible to write one?


I guess that Pyrex does what you want. It allows you essentially to create
Glue-Code which calls C functions (and knows C-structs etc), which in turn
can be called by Python. The Glue-Code is written in a very Python-like
language, which compiles into plain C code.

For more information:

www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/

Hans



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Jun  7 17:24:06 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 16:24:06 -0500
Subject: Porridge 0.0
In-Reply-To: <3edfbb60$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <VYNCa.66$5L6.15@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <mailman.1054587904.7131.python-list@python.org> <l1he77mztp.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <slrnbdoi2k.che.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <l18ysin9rf.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <3edfbb60$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <20030607212404.GA18916@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 02:51:34PM -0700, Scott David Daniels wrote:
> Ed Avis wrote:
> 
> >Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> writes:
> >>Building on the success of Python to date, Porridge will correct 
> >>all the flaws that have been raised by opponents of Python.
> >... Oh, and put goto in there as well, it is sorely missed.
> Clearly this is _not_ what we want "goto" is confirmed terrible.
> I suggest we use the Knuth-defined (bow, scrape) "comefrom" and
> "computed comefrom" statement. [...]

Hm, how about we beat Intercal to implementing the 'PLEASE GO AWAY'
statement?





From bdeck at lycos.co.uk  Wed Jun  4 15:35:02 2003
From: bdeck at lycos.co.uk (deckerben)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:35:02 +0200
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
References: <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <mailman.1054729274.8347.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ede49fa$0$16629$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

"Moshe Zadka" <m at moshez.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.1054729274.8347.python-list at python.org...
> > Which web server software would be more appropriate for a DOS (long
filename
> > enabled) environment? I have seen 4suite and Twisted. Twisted seems to
offer
> > a lot of other networking tools (like telnet and news services) but some
of
> > the admin parts require GTK :-(

> Um, none of Twisted requires Gtk+. There are some programs (like tkmktap)
> which can enhance your experience if you are using a graphical
environment,
> but they're certainly not required. In particular, I almost always use
> Twisted from command-line-only environments, and it works fine.

Good to hear. I was a little concerned by the 'manhole' command coming back
saying I didn't have GTK. Do you think it is possible to rewrite this tools
using the curses module (supported under DOS)?

PythonD provides full socketmodule and selectmodule support. We were able to
*build* and *install* the latest TWISTED as part of our in-house
experimentation. But when I typed 'coil -l /dev/env/DJDIR/bin/web.tap' it
returned the error:
"No module named tendril"
I think it would help to go back and read the docs ;-)

Does TWISTED require any DOS-killers like os.fork() or os.popen2() ??

Regards,
Ben





From v.wehren at home.nl  Thu Jun 19 12:33:18 2003
From: v.wehren at home.nl (vincent wehren)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:33:18 +0200
Subject: error loading files containing nullbytes w/ urllib?
References: <d582c617.0306190811.d556599@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bcso2u$qdp$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"Luther Blisset" <fraqutal at gmx.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:d582c617.0306190811.d556599 at posting.google.com...
> When I try to load a file from a server which contains nullbytes, I
> get back a corrupted file where all null bytes are converted to
> spaces.
>
> When I save the image with a webbrowser I get a normal .jpg with a
> length of 4.545 bytes.
>
> When I do that...
>
> import urllib
> pic =
urllib.urlopen('http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/195000/images/_198996_george_b
ush_junior_150.jpg')
> img = pic.read()
> pic.close()
> f = open('gwb.jpg','w')

try:
f = open('gwb.jpg','wb')

HTH
Vincent Wehren


> f.write(img)
> f.close()
>
> ... I get a file with a size of 4565 bytes and all null bytes are
> converted to spaces.
> What am I doing wrong???
>
> regards,
> frq.





From p-abel at t-online.de  Wed Jun  4 13:28:12 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 10:28:12 -0700
Subject: a wierd parameter passing behavior
References: <5ca99eab.0306040529.2d6f85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0306040928.1929a7a@posting.google.com>

mpradella at yahoo.it (Torvo Sollazzo) wrote in message news:<5ca99eab.0306040529.2d6f85 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi!
> 
> I found a strange parameter passing behavior in Python (v. 2.2.2).
> Look at this piece of code:
> def p(l) :
>     l += [3]
>     l[0] = 2
> 
> def p1(l) :
>     l = l + [3]
>     l[0] = 2
> 
> def f() :
>     l = [1]
>     p(l)
>     print l
>     l = [1]
>     p1(l)
>     print l
> 
> If I call f(), I obtain the following results:
> [2,3]
> [1]
> Why p1() is different from p()? The list l should be passed by
> reference in both cases, while it seems that "l = l + [3]" creates a
> new local variable, also called l.
> 
> Any idea?
> Many thanks,
> TS

Though others already gave the explanation, here
the same one from another point of view:
>>> l=[1]
>>> id(l)
14076416
>>> #l was bound to the object [1]
>>> l+=[1]
>>> id(l)
14076416
>>> #l remains bound to the same object, which was extended
>>> l.extend([1])
>>> #l remains bound to the same object, which was extended
>>> id(l)
14076416
>>> l.append(1)
>>> #l remains bound to the same object, which was extended
>>> id(l)
14076416
>>> l
[1, 1, 1, 1]
>>> l=l+[1]
>>> #l is bound to a new object, which consists of the information 
>>> # (**NOT THE REFERENCE**) of the old one, plus an extension
>>> id(l)
14150320
>>> l
[1, 1, 1, 1, 1]
>>> 
Regards
Peter



From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Fri Jun 13 14:11:39 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:11:39 -0600
Subject: Changing File Permissions
In-Reply-To: <20030613174856.E11FB345DD@www.fastmail.fm>
References: <bcakmg$jv7$1@news-reader14.wanadoo.fr> <bcctqv$255v$1@news.peterlink.ru> <bcd15p$61p$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr> <20030613174856.E11FB345DD@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20030613181139.48E0F331C3@www.fastmail.fm>

Never mind, I figured it out.
os.chmod(file,os.W_OK)

On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:48:56 -0600, "Justin Johnson"
<justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> said:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to remove a file on a win2k box, but the readonly bit is set,
> so I get an exception trying to os.remove it.  I'd prefer if I didn't
> have to run an attrib -r command, and write something a little more
> platform independent.  Is there some sort of chmod method that would
> handle this?
> 
> Any help is appreciated.
> Thanks.
> -Justin
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu  Fri Jun 20 18:56:39 2003
From: spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu (Chris Fonnesbeck)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 15:56:39 -0700
Subject: bizarre Numeric error
Message-ID: <c3835e5f.0306201456.5ab6831@posting.google.com>

Something very wierd is going on with transpose in Numeric: I have an
empty list to which I am iteratively adding 2-element lists. In my
code, I transpose this array for use in other operations. Even though
my array is tranposeable, in my code, I get a TypeError. Here is the
chunk of code:

obs.append([X,y])
			
print obs
_X,_Y = t(obs)

here, I imported Numeric.transpose as t. Running the code gives:

[[0.5, 0.022628661753748849]]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "KalmanFilter.py", line 268, in ?
    ricker.runTest()
  File "KalmanFilter.py", line 258, in runTest
    testfilter.filter(xinit,Pinit)
  File "KalmanFilter.py", line 210, in filter
    _X,_Y = transpose(obs)
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-packages/Numeric/Numeric.py",
line 248, in transpose
    return multiarray.transpose(a, axes)
TypeError: a float is required

The first line of the output is the list that I'm trying to transpose.
There is no reason I can see why this shouldnt work. If I do it by
hand in a python shell, it transposes fine:

>>> from Numeric import *
>>> a = [[0.5,0.022628661753748849]]
>>> transpose(a)
array([[ 0.5       ],
       [ 0.022628661753748849]])

I'm totally stumped. Pelase help.



From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Jun  2 16:21:57 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:21:57 +0100
Subject: A Python application server?
References: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> <3edb9bf2$0$49104$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <bbgbl2$m7v$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Irmen de Jong" <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:3edb9bf2$0$49104$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl...
> Duncan Smith wrote:
> > Hello,
> >          I'm trying to put together a (basic) design for an online
> > examination system.  The system already exists, but is based on Java
> > technologies.  I have (probably prematurely) assured the author that the
> > system could have been developed in Python.  This is based in faith
rather
> > than reason, as I have never had cause to consider such a thing before
> > (although I can now envisage that I might need to develop a simple
> > application server within the next year or so).
> >
> > Having looked at PYRO, Twisted and WebWare I'm pretty confident that
most of
> > the technology is in place.  But I have been told that to emulate the
> > existing system there would have to be a Python equivalent of an
'untrusted
> > Java applet'.  (I'm not convinced this is actually necessary for the
given
> > app., but the existing system does use RMI and Java applets.)
>
> Pyro is no "application server", it's more an enabling technology. Compare
it
> with Java's RMI (but easier to use :-) ). Sure, Pyro contains a builtin
> server to dispatch incoming remote method calls to your own code, but it
> doesn't help you build a really complex system. Then again, you are free
to
> build it the way you want: small & lean if that's all that is needed,
large
> and complex if that's necessary, where Pyro fulfills the communication
needs.
>
> > What I'm basically trying to address is the following statement (from
some
> > of his lecture notes):
> >
> > "Java is the only mainstream technology that adds the required level of
> > safety for code travelling around a network, and the flexibility to
invent
> > our own controls, regardless of the operating system being used."
>
> Pyro supports mobile code with a few technical limitations. There is NO
> security involved other than host-based and passphrase-based
authentication
> (no sandboxed code or whatever).
>
> > Forcing the client(s) to install much software is apparently out of the
> > question (so no Grail / Python applets).  Any suggestions?  Cheers.
>
> Will a web-based solution work (pure HTML pages)? Then all you need is a
web
> browser on the clients. Leave all the difficult stuff on the server.
>

At then end of the day, I think so.  I think he currently uses an applet
because he wants to display a clock for his students' benefit.

Duncan





From donnal at donnal.net  Wed Jun 25 21:05:32 2003
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:05:32 -0500
Subject: Observer Pattern (if you got some spare time)
In-Reply-To: <3eee0283$1_1@news.vo.lu>
References: <3eee0283$1_1@news.vo.lu>
Message-ID: <bddgp5$tce$1@main.gmane.org>

Patrick Useldinger wrote:
> Hi,
> following a previous thread on Patterns, I ended up reading the famous 
> book by Gamma et al., and implemented a "kind of" observer pattern.
> If anyone has some spare time and some interest, take a look at:
> 
> http://www.homepages.lu/pu/python.pubsub.py.html
> 
> Your comments are most welcome.

The Observer Pattern can be used for implementing Model-View-Presenter 
architectures. In this case, however, it would be more convenient to use 
weak references to observers so that when a GUI component is dismissed, 
it is *automatically* removed from the observer list.

Donnal Walter
Arkansas Children's Hospital






From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Jun 27 07:49:59 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 07:49:59 -0400
Subject: Activating `-i' from inside a script?
In-Reply-To: <vfnnrr3c6ojnf2@corp.supernews.com>
References: <oqwuf8cqpy.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>
	<mailman.1056674563.715.python-list@python.org>
	<vfnnrr3c6ojnf2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <oqsmpvspso.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Troy Melhase]

> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     discrepancy = True
>     if discrepancy:
>         os.environ['PYTHONINSPECT'] = "why yes, i'd like that"

> A quick read of Modules/main.c shows that the environment variable is
> checked at program start, not at end.  Maybe this is a bug?

It would be nice if the Python crew was willing to see this as a bug.  A
program might also delete PYTHONINSPECT if it feels shy to get naked. :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From exarkun at intarweb.us  Mon Jun  2 22:39:51 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:39:51 -0400
Subject: integer to string?
In-Reply-To: <3edbffd5.61792491@news.t-online.de>
References: <3edbffd5.61792491@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <20030603023951.GB5758@meson.dyndns.org>

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 02:15:27AM +0000, Hendrik Reinhold wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I want my answering machine to play a random file for each call.
> The configuration scripts (of capisuite) are in python, so I think I
> am in the right group. :)
> 
> 
> import random
> from random import randrange
> var1 = randrange(0,9)
> capisuite.audio_send(call,my_path+var1+".la")
> 
> 
> I guess that var1 is an integer and that I cannot concat the var1
> with the path variable and the file extension. I couldn?t find out how
> to convert the variables (int to string), and phyton.org was not very
> usefull for me, a python newbie.  ;)
> 

    http://python.org/doc/tut/node9.html#SECTION009100000000000000000

> any ideas? 
> 
> best regards
> Hendrik
> 
> PS:  (using v2.2.2) 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
"The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt but it has
 always been nothing more than politics in disguise ... economics is a form
 of brain damage."  -- Hazel Henderson




From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Wed Jun 18 16:15:03 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:15:03 +0100
Subject: How to make an executable file
References: <b675611e.0306171648.a289a4e@posting.google.com> <slrnbevep8.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <j1i1fvcifsi36g7buhk6cq2uidq2pn79fe@4ax.com>

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:06:49 GMT, Ben Finney
<bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> wrote:

>compiler.  Python scripts, on the other hand, can be run unmodified in
>any environment where Python is available.

Unless they use OS specific features, of course!



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Fri Jun 20 11:19:43 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 08:19:43 -0700
Subject: scheduling events
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306200719.70649ed0@posting.google.com>

I would like a python script that execute a given command at a fixed
time (for instance, today at 15:30). It should be portable to both
Linux and Windows. I am too lazy to look at the sched module today,
therefore I will take my chance at c.l.p. ;) Any hints ?

TIA,

                 Michele



From scook at elp.rr.com  Sat Jun  7 11:18:39 2003
From: scook at elp.rr.com (Stan Cook)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 15:18:39 GMT
Subject: Copying Files
References: <tlcEa.92271$%e.5967562@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <oprqels8pkgkvogq@news-server.elp.rr.com>

On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 02:45:45 GMT, Stan Cook <scook at elp.rr.com> wrote:

> Can someone give me a clue on using the copyfile function?  I've tried
> implementing it in this fashion without success.
>
> copyfile(d:\work\temp.dbf, d:\w)
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.486 / Virus Database: 284 - Release Date: 5/29/03
>
>
>

Thanks to all!!!  That was a big help.

-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/



From ed at membled.com  Mon Jun  9 16:38:10 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 21:38:10 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <PbidnQB3TIQbEX-jXTWcpg@comcast.com> <l18yschlge.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3ptlouoq6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l14r2zg2yq.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3isrffr49.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <l1ptlndm19.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) writes:

>Looking at your proposal as I interpret it now, it seems you suggest
>allowing the following in a lambda expression:

[list of simple_stmt cases, most of them useless]

>assignment_stmt: supported, but useless

Not so, consider assignment to list and dictionary elements.  (Though
a better way to accomplish this might be to add concise 'set' methods
rather than relying on the somewhat anomalous d[k] = v statement.)

>del_stmt:        supported, but useless

Likewise, not useless for lists and dictionaries.  And again maybe
making a 'del' method would be a better way of addressing the problem.

>To summarize, you can only use print, raise, yield, and exec in a
>meaningful way. Why would I want to have any of these in a lambda
>expression?

IIRC I originally gave three motivating examples:

    lambda x: print 'value', x
    lambda x: assert x > 0
    lambda x: y += x

After thinking about the intended semantics of lambda functions
containing statements, I realize that the third is useless because y
is local to the lambda function.  Although 'y[x] += 5' does have an
effect, and is plausible.

The other two I still think would be useful.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl  Wed Jun  4 10:54:14 2003
From: gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl (Gerrit Muller)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 16:54:14 +0200
Subject: Python fot medium/large size projects
References: <d7c8b5ba.0305292202.5ccbc7a@posting.google.com> <bb85f5$rmo$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <3EDE0816.5070705@embeddedsystems.nl>

GerritM wrote:
> I recently started to work on a presentation and article discussing the
> bloating of software, which in reverse explains the importance of
> programming languages such as Python. N.B. the material in the links below
> is in its very early infancy! (long links are likely to be broken by the
> newsreader)

I have just uploaded the draft version of this presentation and the 
article, see:

www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/BloatingExploredSlides.pdf
www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/BloatingExploredPaper.pdf

  kind regards Gerrit



-- 
Gaudi systems architecting:
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jun  3 09:38:58 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 09:38:58 -0400
Subject: GIL and uniprocessor machines
References: <20d6d41f.0306030415.18f4c093@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbi8di$3es$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <20d6d41f.0306030415.18f4c093 at posting.google.com>,
Joe Cheng <code at joecheng.com> wrote:
>
>I was wondering about the effect of the global interpreter lock on
>single-processor machines.  Clearly on a multi-processor machine, not
>being able to have each processor crunching bytecode instructions is a
>(potential) bottleneck.  But a (non-hyperthreading) single-processor
>machine can only deal with one thread at a time anyway, right?  So the
>GIL should actually not be a restriction at all in that case?

You're half-right.  However, even on a single-CPU machine, handling
multiple I/O requests concurrently does give a speed boost, which is why
Python has a mechanism for releasing the GIL in C extensions -- and all
the reentrant-capable I/O calls in the standard library release the GIL.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Thu Jun  5 14:51:03 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Thu,  5 Jun 2003 11:51:03 -0700
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
Message-ID: <1054839063.3edf911799d1d@mcherm.com>

Ed Avis writes:
> It seems a bit perverse that setattr is allowed in lambda expressions
> but assignment is not; that you can call setdefault to update a
> dictionary, but not simply set the dictionary's elements; that you can
> do sys.stdout.write but not print; that you can call a function which
> asserts but not call assert.
> 
> If lambda accepted statements as well as expressions - or if a
> statement could be used as an expression, as in C - then these warts
> would not arise.

True, but as usual, there's a reason for it. Lambda was intended[1] for
one purpose and one purpose only... to permit simple anonymous functions
to be used in places where the succinctness makes it more readable than 
using def to make a named function. Such places are rare except when
using functional style programming, where they are quite common. But
in functional style programming you (nearly always) do NOT want 
expressions to have side effects.

So lambda is defined to allow only expressions, and is *intended* for
simple, side-effect-free functions. While there's nothing *preventing*
you from calling a function with side effects, the prohibition on
using statements tends to discourage it. Good style is encouraged,
but you can violate the rules if you really want to (and know what
you're doing). If you want more, use def, and give it a name.

[1] This is only my own opinion of how and why Lamda works the way it
  does. In particular, Guido would disagree. He would say that lambda
  was included to satisfy the requests from lisp refugees, and that
  if he had it to do over he wouldn't just choose a better keyword,
  he'd prohibit the whole thing and require def everywhere. On this
  point I respectfully disagree with him... I find lambda to be quite
  nice, but ONLY when used for very small side-effect-free functions.
  And if I had a complaint, it wouldn't be about the (rarely needed
  and easily worked-around) prohibition on assignment statements,
  but about the (frequently needed and impossible to work around) lack
  of a conditional expression.

But-we-won't-bug-Guido-about-the-results-of-that-vote-until-after-2.3 lly,

-- Michael Chermside





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Jun 20 12:17:00 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:17:00 -0400
Subject: 1== 1 is False?
References: <mailman.1056118300.27179.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Z7icnRYDz_vgrm6jXTWJhw@comcast.com>

"delphiro" <delphiro at zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:mailman.1056118300.27179.python-list at python.org...
>     if( p[0] <= xmax )and( p[0] >= xmin)and( p[1] <= ymax )and( p[1]
>= ymin ):

side note: above can be written more compactly and run slightly faster
as

if xmin <= p[0] <= xmax and ymin <= p[1] <= ymax:

tjr





From Kevin.Smith at sas.com  Wed Jun 11 08:02:37 2003
From: Kevin.Smith at sas.com (Kevin Smith)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 12:02:37 GMT
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <mailman.1055217438.10041.python-list@python.org><dd5454fb.0306101346.201331fc@posting.google.com><3EE65444.907E6D87@alcyone.com><mailman.1055283799.2307.python-list@python.org><3EE6646E.47555429@alcyone.com> 
	<mailman.1055286920.18421.python-list@python.org> 
	<3EE67C20.941FCA51@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20030611080239845-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>

In <3EE67C20.941FCA51 at alcyone.com> Erik Max Francis  wrote:
> A fair point.  So if you were able to choose any keyword for this task
> that you wished, which would you choose?

I had considered the word 'using' instead of 'as'.  Someone else in this 
thread also suggested that.  Then the the following def:

    def foo(self) using classmethod, synchronized(lock):
        blah, blah, blah

reads as:

    "Define [a function] foo using [the behaviors of] classmethod and 
synchronized"
 
-- 
Kevin Smith
Kevin.Smith at sas.com



From nobbi_at_theorie3.physik.uni-erlangen.de at NOSPAM.COM  Tue Jun  3 08:50:13 2003
From: nobbi_at_theorie3.physik.uni-erlangen.de at NOSPAM.COM (Norbert Nemec)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 14:50:13 +0200
Subject: Bi-directional communication with external programs?
Message-ID: <bbi5if$h3u$1@rznews2.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>

Hi there,

can anybody help me on this: I want to communicate bidirectionally with a
gnuplot session I spawned from python.

I.e.
* popen3 for input/output/stderr
* write one command
* read and evaluate result
* write next command
* read and evaluate result
etc.

Problem: file.readline does block if there is nothing to read and select()
does not seem to do anything useful either (it always tells me that there
is data to read, even though there is none.)

Unfortunately, I cannot predict in advance how much to read, as
errormessages and other data comes through the same pipe and have to be
discarded somehow.

Anybody out there who can help me on that?

Thanks,
Nobbi



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Jun 29 19:07:50 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 00:07:50 +0100
Subject: strings
References: <bdnqrj$j72$2@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <87isqolby1.fsf@pobox.com>

"Egor Bolonev" <ebolonev at mail.ru> writes:

> I have a
> 'Pink Floyd/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00'
> and I want a
> 'Pink Floyd'
> How can I manage it?
> 
> This one isn't work.
> author=f.read(30).replace('\0',' ').rstrip() #from mp3 tag

I don't see why it shouldn't work.  Try posting more code if you're
still stuck.

BTW, text.rstrip("\0") should work just as well in Python 2.2 or
newer.


John



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 11 06:05:27 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:05:27 +0100
Subject: Sockets and threads
References: <C0BFa.597$n46.42261599@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3EE6FEE7.8CFF39B5@hotmail.com>

Byron Morgan wrote:

> If I monitor a socket connection or even jsust listen to a socket in a
> thread, Python's cpu usage expands to use all available processor time.

Hmm, this sounds like something is wrong, for sure.

A few questions that would be helpful if you could answer:

1. How many threads are you creating? At what stage of connection processing?
2. How many of those threads are 'listen'ing for socket connections?
3. If you answered "more than 1" for question 2, that's a problem.
4. When you receive a new connection, do you create a new thread, or pass
control to an existing thread?
5. Does each thread do blocking or non-blocking reads on the socket?

If you can answer those, it should hopefully become plainly clear what is going
wrong.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Jun 17 05:58:05 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:58:05 GMT
Subject: Loop from 'aaaa' to 'tttt' ?
References: <slrnberu4u.khj.lschaps@x11.informatik.uni-bremen.de> <yyrj65n5an9r.fsf@pc156.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <NCBHa.188975$g92.3827341@news2.tin.it>

Des Small wrote:

> Lars Schaps <tuffi23 at gmx.de> writes:
> 
>> Hello.
>> 
>> In my program in need a loop from 'aaaa' over
>> 'aaac', 'aaag', 'aaat', 'aaca' to 'tttt'.
>> (Possible characters 'a', 'c', 'g' and 't')
>> 
>> One idea i had is to take a number n with the base of
>> 4 and use
>> 
>> t= string.translate( '0123', 'acgt')
>> string.translate( n, t)
>> 
>> But i don't know how to convert from base10 to base4.
>> 
>> Has anyone a idea?
> 
> 
> I like to use recursive generators for this sort of thing:
> 
> from __future__ import generators # Not needed in python 2.3
> 
> def base_iter():
>     for a in 'acgt': yield a
> 
> def nbase_iter(n):
>     if n==0: yield ''
>     else:
>         for first in base_iter():
>             for rest in nbase_iter(n-1):
>                 yield first + rest

I think a recursive generator is the most elegant and practical
idea (even though I might disagree with some implementation
details of your specific generator).  Still, "counting in base
N" is also quite acceptable -- and it should not need any base
conversion, since all you're doing is always "increment by 1"
(that's what "counting" stands for here).  E.g.:

def countInBase(base, ndigits):
    digits = ndigits * [0]
    while 1:
        curdig = ndigits - 1
        while curdig >= 0 and digits[curdig] >= base-1:
            digits[curdig] = 0
            curdig -= 1
        if curdig < 0:
            break
        digits[curdig] += 1
        yield digits

You may want to yield tuple(digits) or digits[:] if you need to
be able to call list(countInBase(x, y)) or the like, but this
is suitable for a normal for loop.  Of course, this yields items
which are lists of integers, not strings.  But, the structure IS
what the OP asked for -- we just need some small adaptation,
which can be done in several ways, to give the OP just what he
wants... for example:

def codonStrings(lenghtOfStrings, codons='acgt'):
    base = len(codons)-1
    result = lengthOfStrings * [codons[0]]
    while 1:
        curindex = lenghtOfStrings - 1
        while curindex >= 0 and result[curindex] >= base:
            result[curindex] = 0
            curindex -= 1
        if curindex < 0:
            break
        result[curindex] += 1
        yield ''.join( [codons[i] for i in result] )

As a matter of style, the outer loop's body might be recoded...:

        for curindex in range(lengthOfStrings-1,-1,-1):
            if result[curindex] < base: 
                result[curindex] += 1
                break
            result[curindex] = 0
        else:
            break

and the computation of "range(lengthOfStrings-1,-1,-1)" could,
and no doubt should, be hoisted out of the loop, giving:

def codonStrings(lenghtOfStrings, codons='acgt'):
    base = len(codons)-1
    indexSequence = range(lengthOfStrings-1,-1,-1)
    result = lengthOfStrings * [codons[0]]
    while 1:
        for curindex in indexSequence:
            if result[curindex] < base: 
                result[curindex] += 1
                break
            result[curindex] = 0
        else:
            break
        yield ''.join( [codons[i] for i in result] )

but I guess it's a matter of personal taste whether this
structure is perceived as clearer or less clear than the
original one with the two nested while loops.


Alex




From mickel at csc.fi  Tue Jun 17 01:43:19 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:43:19 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Displaying IPA characters in Tkinter
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0306170839160.9090-100000@sampo.csc.fi>

Hi everybody,

I have two questions that I hope you guys can answer:

1. How do I display IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) characters in
Tkinter (labels, canvas text objects)? (I need to do this on Unix/Linux
and Windows 2000/XP and was hoping that I would not need to install any
new fonts.)

2. How do I make my Tkinter application accept IPA characters as input in
entry fields?

Cheers!

/Mickel

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi





From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Sat Jun 21 20:37:17 2003
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:37:17 -0700
Subject: 2D Graphics Libraries for python?
In-Reply-To: <893946374.20030619213834@vega.bg>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030619085208.00b257d8@pop.hurrah.com>
 <5.2.0.9.0.20030619085208.00b257d8@pop.hurrah.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030621164056.00b255c8@pop.hurrah.com>

At 11:38 AM 6/19/2003 Thursday, Niki Spahiev wrote:
>6/19/2003, 19:38:14, Ken Seehof wrote:
>
>KS> - Beziers
>KS> - Antialiasing (lines and beziers)
>KS> - Transparent bitmaps
>KS> - Portable (unix, linux, mac, windows)
>KS> - Can be painted in a wxPython window
>
>Check chaco also new PIL IIRC
>
>--
>Best regards,
>  Niki Spahiev

At 11:09 AM 6/19/2003 Thursday, Robin Becker wrote:
>we used libart_lgpl in renderPM to do most of what you say. It has alpha
>for transparency and many different ways to render stuff. We have
>renderPM working on unix, linux, mac, windows so the underlying library
>does as well. In our usage at least it has some numerical issues. As a
>backend we used PIL to convert the pixel map canvas to gif etc.
>--
>Robin Becker

Thank you for your replies.

PIL seems to be oriented toward outputting image files rather than displays.
I want to paint directly into a window (device context).  Speed is important,
so generating temporary image files and then displaying them is not an option
All I could find was Dib.expose(hdc) apparently to draw an image to a device.
Antialiasing seems to only be available as a filter for downsampling.

RenderPM is a Zope thing.  I like Zope, but that's not what I'm am doing right
now.  My application is a wxPython user interface running locally.  This is not
a web application.  Drawing needs to be directly to the screen, not to a 
document.


I am looking for these features for high speed drawing directly onto a 
canvas for
the purpose of a graphical user interface.

- Drawing antialiased lines and beziers to a window canvas
- Blitting transparent bitmaps to a window canvas
- Portability (unix, linux, mac, windows)
- Painting in a wxPython window, (perhaps using a device context handle)

The best solution I can think of so far is to use java.awt through Jython.
Java seems to have all the features I am looking for.  Has anyone had
experience with using java.awt to draw in a python application?

Thank you,
Ken







From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jun  3 17:51:23 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 21:51:23 GMT
Subject: pychecker checks files by executing them ??
References: <3EDCB6BF.1090909@molgen.mpg.de> <u1b7xkwr.fsf@python.net> <just-7B6E29.19501303062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <bbj58r$kid$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 19:50:13 +0200, Just <just at xs4all.nl> wrote:

>In article <u1b7xkwr.fsf at python.net>,
> Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:
>
>> Axel Kowald <kowald at molgen.mpg.de> writes:
>> 
>> > I got pychecker and installed it on my w2k machine as described. It
>> > also seems to work, but when I do:
>> > 
>> > pychecker myFile.py   it actually "executes"  myFile.py, while
>> > checking it. Is this the correct behaviour??
>>
>> > Obviously I would like to check my scripts without executing them. Any
>> > idea what's going on ?
>> > 
>> pychecker imports them, not executes them.
>
>Hm, I don't understand how you can make that distinction: if you import 
>a module, it gets executed.
Yes. IWT that deserves a security warning someplace in pychecker - maybe even
a default prompted are-you-sure that can optionally but only explicitly be
made quiet.
>
>> Protect the main function or
>> what it is in your case by the usual 'if __name__ == "__main__":' idiom
>> (which you should do anyway IMO), and you are fine.
>
>True. Yet it would be far better if PyChecker would analyze the compiled 
>byte code instead of executing it. The same goes for pydoc btw.
>
Bad news. I would want a documenter to be a safe way to get a first look
at something untrusted. Sheesh. Thanks for the wakeup ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Jun  5 22:50:34 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 22:50:34 -0400
Subject: Twisted Panglossia
In-Reply-To: <3EDFFAEB.C7453189@engcorp.com>
References: <u65nk5x8p.fsf@fitlinxx.com>, <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
 <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
 <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
 <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com>
 <mailman.1054749788.8638.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.1054830612.3231.python-list@python.org> <w/43+kKkXUlb092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list@python.org> <3EDFFAEB.C7453189@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <6FA4+kKkXADK092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

|> eye-gauging or anything, just moderation :-).
|(My eyes are just the size I want them to be, but feel free to measure
|them if you are into that kind of thing...)

My Oedipus complex prompted the mipslelling.  Transference, repression,
that sort of thing.  It even -looked- wrong, but somehow I couldn't get
to 'gouge' while typing.

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Jun  8 23:14:18 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 23:14:18 -0400
Subject: interpreted
References: <M6icneVATOpIWn6jXTWcrg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bLKcnYSjo_wOZn6jXTWcog@comcast.com>

"Ifman1" <Ifman1 at comcast.net> wrote in message
news:M6icneVATOpIWn6jXTWcrg at comcast.com...
> Python is interpreted, right?

For CPython and Jythond implementations, yes.

> Is there anyway to make it compiled to machine code?

Look up Psyco, PyRex, and Weave projects (names correct?).

> Will this make it faster?

With some work on your part, yes.

TJR






From jeremy at zope.com  Wed Jun 18 13:49:49 2003
From: jeremy at zope.com (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 13:49:49 -0400
Subject: Why does this work in jython and not in python?
In-Reply-To: <87adcfqn13.fsf@speeder.org>
References: <87adcfqn13.fsf@speeder.org>
Message-ID: <1055958589.16214.31.camel@slothrop.zope.com>

On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 13:01, Roman Milner wrote:
> I'm sorting a list of dictionaries based on a particular key. Using
> the code below, the list gets sorted in jython, but not in python. I'm
> using python 2.2.1 and jython 2.1.
> 
> I really appreciate any help.
> 
> ^Roman
> 
> # if you run this with jython, you get a sorted list
> # with python the list stays in the same order. Why?
> 
> tdict = [{'a':5}, {'a':3},{'a':4},{'a':2},{'a':1}]
> 
> def sort_func(one, two):
>     return one['a'] < two['a']
> 
> print tdict
> tdict.sort(sort_func)
> print tdict

I don't understand why it works in jython.  The problem is that your
sort_func is returning the wrong value.

It should return -1 if one < two, 1 if one > two, and 0 if equal.  The
sort_func() will always report that two values are greater than or equal
to each other.  Try this instead:

def sort_func(one, two):
    return cmp(one["a"], two["a"])

Jeremy






From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Jun  7 13:28:01 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 18:28:01 +0100
Subject: finding origin of names
References: <gozptIAYyc4+EwH6@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <mailman.1054987218.24496.python-list@python.org>
 <Y64HZKA1Ke4+Ewhj@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <2259b0e2.0306070843.4ac68402@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <QG9FGLAhCi4+EwjA@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <2259b0e2.0306070843.4ac68402 at posting.google.com>, Michele
Simionato <mis6 at pitt.edu> writes
......
>
>If I understand correctly you want inspect.getsource or inspect.getmodule
>or inspect.getsourcefile or something like that ...
>
>
>                                Michele
yes that works for functions and classes containing a method, but not
instances.
-- 
Robin Becker



From root at igdnyca.com  Wed Jun 11 12:51:19 2003
From: root at igdnyca.com (IGDNYC Inc.)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:51:19 -0400
Subject: June 2003: Manhattan Office, Retail and Industrial Space Update
Message-ID: <E19Q8pG-00083N-00@mail.python.org>

June 2003: Manhattan Office, Retail and Industrial Space Update

There are some signs of improvement in the commercial real estate market in
Manhattan as NYC added 10,700 jobs in April and two major corporations
announced expansion plans ...

Click here to read the full article ... 

 


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From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jun  5 10:21:03 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:21:03 +0100
Subject: xmlrpc ssl (slightly embarrassing, long post)
References: <bbng28$amd$1@services.kq.no>
Message-ID: <3EDF51CF.D7478E94@hotmail.com>

Rune Hansen wrote:

> I'm trying to use https in communication with a xmlrpc server.
> Both server and client should preferably be build with python.

Here is the core of the problem. As I understand it, the standard python
distribution doesn't support secure sockets on the server side, on any platform.

So you have two options

1. Use a library that is capable of secure server sockets, like M2Crypto.

2. Use stunnel* to encrypt the comms between your ssl-unaware clients and
servers.

* http://www.stunnel.org/

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jun 27 12:08:16 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:08:16 +0200
Subject: OFF TOPIC: What did Guido say?
References: <20030625002727.20904.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com> <3EF95F29.8050609@riks.nl> <mailman.1056534582.11867.python-list@python.org> <bdhdpt$f12$1@eol.dd.chalmers.se> <6BYKa.333824$3n5.216510@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <bdhq50$so$1@main.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:

> > >hee de her linus torvalds oh ja utallar linux linux ;)
> >
> > and that would really be:
> >
> > Hej, det h?r ?r Linus Torvalds och jag uttalar Linux Linux.
>
> So Linus speaks Swedish even though he's a Finn?

Finland has two official languages (as guaranteed by the constitution),
and Linus belongs to the ~6% of the population (~300k people) that
speak Swedish.

Random google background:

    http://www.folktinget.fi/foreign/swedish.htm

(Finnish is an officially recognized minority language in Sweden, and
has full official status in parts of Sweden -- i.e. you can use Finnish
in your contacts with the authorities, even if you can speak Swedish.
If my sources are correct, over 400k swedes speak Finnish)

(And when it's my turn to be king, all Swedes will be forced to speak
Swedish with a Finnish accent)

</F>







From grahamd at dscpl.com.au  Sun Jun 29 20:03:21 2003
From: grahamd at dscpl.com.au (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: 29 Jun 2003 17:03:21 -0700
Subject: SOAP  client
References: <PAVKa.126576$lK4.3527903@twister1.libero.it> <yyybrwj8lpq.fsf@adams.patriot.net>
Message-ID: <dc6f5c99.0306291603.374dcf9c@posting.google.com>

Nick Vargish <nav at adams.patriot.net> wrote in message news:<yyybrwj8lpq.fsf at adams.patriot.net>...
> Glauco <glauco at sferacarta.com> writes:
>
> > I'm going crazy because function are not documented .
> > Exist another solution for di a SOAP CLient ??
> 
> There's ZSI, which has been called "more mature" by some people, but I
> can't see much of a difference in approachability. Neither seems to be
> very well documented. What I could really use are some more
> examples...
> 
> Here's one of the Perl scripts I'm trying to translate:
> 
>   use SOAP::Lite;
>   print SOAP::Lite
>     -> uri('urn:Temperatures')
>     -> proxy('http://clerkcap.house.gov/scripts/temper.pl')
>     -> f2c($ARGV[0])
>     -> result;
> 
> It's just one call. What's the Pythonic equivalent, using either
> SOAP.py or the ZSI package?
> 
> Obviously, I need a better understanding of how SOAP is supposed to
> work, but even that basic documentation is surprisingly hard to find
> on the Web.

One of the issues with ZSI is it is more setup for use in calling
servers where
methods use named parameters. The above example, which actually
appears
uncontactable, uses positional parameters and not named parameters. To
this end, the simplest mechanism provided by ZSI to make calls, isn't
going
to work properly for various reasons.

If you are indeed only interested in servers where methods have
positional
parameters, you might have a look at the "zsirpc" module for Python.
This
module is a simple wrapper around ZSI providing a kindler interface in
the
style of the "xmlrpclib" module specifically for calling servers with
methods
using positional parameters only.

If you want to try this out without having to download the package, go
to
the address:

  http://www.dscpl.com.au/soap-debugger.php

This is a web based front end around the SOAP client code which the
"zsirpc"
module provides. It will allow you to make calls against services
accessable
over the Internet to gauge whether the ZSI package is going to work
for you
in the manner that the "zsirpc" interface uses it.

The equivalent Python code using the "zsirpc" module to make the same
Perl
call as you list is:

  import zsirpc

  url = 'http://clerkcap.house.gov/scripts/temper.pl'
  uri = 'urn:Temperatures'
  action = ''    

  #service = zsirpc.RemoteService(url,ns=uri,soapaction=action)
  service = zsirpc.RemoteService(url,ns=uri)

  print service.f2c(32.5)

Unfortunately I can't verify that this works since the call times out
against that
service.

As the interface provided by "zsirpc" is simpler in that it is a much
more
restrictive interface doing one specific thing, the documentation
needed to
cover it isn't much. For that go to:

  http://ose.sourceforge.net/browse.php?group=python-manual&entry=manual.htm

and then go into the chapter title "Remote Access" and look for the
documentation
on the "SOAP Gateway" to see how the client is configurable. Frankly
though, the "ns"
and "soapaction" attributes above are about as far as it goes. Do note
however,
that "zsirpc" is a subset of what is described in all that
documentation and is provided
as a separate package as a convenience. Where the documentation says
"netrpc.soap"
read it is meaning "zsirpc" and if something refers to just "netrpc",
again in code using
just "zsirpc", use "zsirpc" instead of "netrpc".

The only other bit of extensibility built in is that it has the
ability to automatically manage
types for Boolean, Binary (as BASE64), Date, DateTime, Time and
Duration. Information
about these types is described in the "Message Encoding" chapter of
the documentation.
You should ignore the bits about adding in new types as that only
applies to the framework
that "zsirpc" has been extracted from. If you did want to add news
types with "zsirpc"
you would need to drop down and use the ZSI packages way of defining
typecodes. You
might have to override an encoding method in the "zsirpc" package as
well, but can't
remember right now.

One warning, and I believe this still also applies to ZSI as well.
That is, that ZSI seems
to only interpret its own type of error response as returned by
servers. Thus, it will
work fine against a ZSI server, but use it against another server
which uses its own
means of encoding the detail associated with an error response, and
you might not
be able to do too much with it. The "zsripc" package understands the
ZSI error response
and one other which is particular to the framework it has been
extracted from,  so it
doesn't do too much more to help you in that respect.

As to where you can get "zsirpc" from, go to the downloads section of:

  http://ose.sourceforge.net

You might also be interested in getting down the "netrpc" package.
This contains both
a SOAP client and XML-RPC client where the interface is basically the
same with type
objects interchangeable between both. Use "netrpc" instead of "zsirpc"
and you will not
need to translate names when applying what the documentation says.



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Jun  3 17:23:13 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:23:13 -0500 
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304F660D0@mail.hebmex.com>

> 
> Is there a way to write an expression which sets b and does return
> something?
>

I really don't know, but the real question is: why?
What are you trying to accomplish?

Know that "assignment-as-expression" is a recurrent theme which
regularly gets shot down, because the language does not support
it, nor will it in the forseeable future.

Programming "C/C++ in Python" is frustrating, what with lack of
pointers and other bug-engendering paraphernalia, maybe programming
Python in Python will be much more rewarding.

<wink>

-gus
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From grante at visi.com  Wed Jun  4 13:28:58 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 17:28:58 GMT
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com> <bbl9ao$mnr$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com>
Message-ID: <3ede2c5a$0$1379$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <bbl9ao$mnr$1 at trsvr.tr.unisys.com>, Reginald Blue wrote:
> Pupppy Wizzard wrote:
>> Hi. I am an old school programmer looking to modernize my skill set. I
>> want to focus on one new language. Should I choose:
[...]
>
> (Yes, I know this is a troll, but I just wanted to get this in):
> 
> Hi.  I'm an old school woodworker looking to modernize my skill set.  I want
> to focus on one new tool.  Should I choose:
> 
> Hammer
> Screwdriver (phillips)
[...]

Naw.  I'd recommend either a high-end sawz-all or a nice,
old-fashioned 6 lb sledge.  Both are universally applicable to
all problems.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I think I am an
                                  at               overnight sensation right
                               visi.com            now!!



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Jun 15 12:53:12 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:53:12 -0500
Subject: [General lang] how to call a parent
In-Reply-To: <F%0Ha.261$WW3.30765151@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
References: <F%0Ha.261$WW3.30765151@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <20030615165309.GA24545@unpythonic.net>

What is the "parent" of an object?  For instance given

class Z: pass

a = Z()
b = Z()
c = Z()

a.kids = [c]
b.kids = [c]

it's clear that c is-a kid of a, and c is-a kid of b, so what is c's
parent?  Python can have any sort of directed graph for objects, not just a
tree, so the language doesn't define the parent of an object.

However, if you work only with objects of your own devising, you can keep
track of the parent/child relationship:
	class FamilyTree:
		def __init__(self, name, parent=None):
			self.name = name
			self.kids = []
			self.parent = None
			if parent is not None: parent.add(self)

		def add(self, kid):
			if kid.parent:
				kid.parent.kids.remove(kid)
			kid.parent = self
			self.kids.append(kid)

		def newkid(self, name):
			return FamilyTree(name, self)

		def __repr__(self):
			return ("<%s with %d kids>"
				% (self.name, len(self.kids)))
>>> from ft import FamilyTree
>>> a = FamilyTree("a")
>>> b = FamilyTree("b", a) # or b = a.newkid("b")
>>> c = FamilyTree("c", b)

>>> print b, b.parent      # B has a kid, and the right parent
<b with 1 kids> <a with 1 kids>
>>> print c, c.parent      # C has no kids and the right parent
<c with 0 kids> <b with 1 kids>
>>> a.add(c)               # A adopts C (B was bad parent?)
>>> print b, b.parent      # B now has 1 kid, A now has 2
<b with 0 kids> <a with 2 kids>
>>> print c.parent         # sure enough, C's parent is A
<a with 2 kids>

a = FamilyTree("a")
b = FamilyTree("b", a)
c = FamilyTree("c", b)

Jeff




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Jun 26 05:25:10 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:25:10 +0200
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
In-Reply-To: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE797832@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE797832@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <20030626092510.GA2997@nl.linux.org>

Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) wrote:
> import cStringIO as StringIO
> 
> # Subclass of str so that it can be used nearly anywhere that requires a real
> # string.
> 
> class MutableString (str):
> 
>     def __init__ (self, s=""):
>         super(MutableString, self).__init__()
>         self.data = StringIO.StringIO()
>         self.data.write(s)
> 
>     def __add__(self, s):
>         m = MutableString(self.data.getvalue())
>         m.data.write(s)
>         return m
> 
>     def __iadd__(self, s):
>         self.data.write(s)
>         return self
> 
>     def __str__(self):
>         return self.data.getvalue()
> 
>     def __repr__(self):
>         return repr(str(self))

You could even add __setitem__ and __getitem__ and implement it with
.seek.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
62. If he do not plant the field that was given over to him as a
garden, if it be arable land (for corn or sesame) the gardener shall pay
the owner the produce of the field for the years that he let it lie
fallow, according to the product of neighboring fields, put the field in
arable condition and return it to its owner.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com  Mon Jun  2 11:39:56 2003
From: axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com (Axel Straschil)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:39:56 +0200
Subject: A Python application server?
References: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnbdmruc.aud.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>

Hallo!

> As the system is web-based I also want to address the security aspects

You allready took a look at Zope (www.zope.org)?

-- 
Lg,
Axel.



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Tue Jun 17 18:34:29 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 23:34:29 +0100
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <5g5vevsu4c5rr5d5scks4tfjqe5mpn1h4j@4ax.com>

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:13:25 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
wrote:

>Every few months, someone asks for tips on convincing 'management'
>that Python is as safe a business bet as closed-source, proprietary
>products.  Here's a point that is sometimes overlooked: unlike the
>latter,
>
>Python cannot be killed.

If Python were perceived as a threat to Microsoft I would expect them
to produce a "Visual Python" with a snazzy interface, some fairly neat
proprietary web tools and subtle incompatibilities with the
GPL-compatible one we know and love, and integrated with MSIE.
Unfortunately Sun is struggling to stop them doing this with Java, and
the Python community would, AFAICS, have real trouble finding the
money to mount an effective opposition.

I think a false sense of security can be very dangerous.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jun 16 17:13:40 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:13:40 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <JhCdnS60ROaYrnOjXTWJgQ@comcast.com>

"David Abrahams" <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote in message
news:uwufmko7g.fsf at boost-consulting.com...
> I find that static typing makes a big difference for two things:
>
>   1. Readability.  It really helps to have names introduced with a
>      type or a type constraint which expresses what kind of thing
they
>      are.

Perhaps true, especially for C/C++, but given polymorphic operations
and the absence of an extensible hierachical type system, the
enevitable cost is excluding valid argument values.  By fixing both
external interface/behavior and internal structure/implementation,
declaring types fixes too much.  Preprocessor macros, with *untyped*
parameters, (like #define max(num1,num2) ...) are an homage to the
virtue of generic programming.

The other problem, which I discussed in another post to this thread,
is that current static typing systems, besides being too narrow, in
excluding valid imputs (given Python's object and operation system),
are also too broad in including invalid values.  They often do not
adequately express 'what kind of thing' something is because the only
choice is *too* inclusive.

Besides the above, much Python code is, for me, pretty
self-explanatory as to types.  Is 'int i', etc, really clearer than
'i=0', etc.  Arithmetic expressions usually define the involved
variables as numbers.  'For item in seq' defines seq as a sequence of
some type, specifics usually not too important.  And so on.

And of course, one can give each Python variable a one-line
definition, with a type name even, of the same sort I often did with C
variables.  Just move the comment start symbol leftward to the margin
;-)

Terry J. Reedy





From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sat Jun 21 15:42:53 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:42:53 +0200
Subject: "a in b" calls a.__cmp__, why?
Message-ID: <20030621194253.GA4779@nl.linux.org>

Hello,

Why does a container-sequence's __contains__ call obj.__cmp__?

  0 >>> class Foo(object):
  0 ...  def __cmp__(self, other):
  0 ...   print "comparing"
  0 ...   return cmp(id(self), id(other))
  0 ...
  2 >>> l=[Foo(), Foo(), Foo()]
  3 >>> l[0] in l
comparing
True

Why do lists and tuples do this? Or is it unwanted/a bug?

It means a serious impact on 
speed for me, since I'm writing a game and __cmp__ is used to
determine the drawing order, (layers etc.), which is not extremely
expensive but too expensive to do each frame: I can cache my sprites
and resort it if and only if sprites appear or disappear from a
certain area, but I do need to do membership tests each frame...

By testing and playing, I see only one way to suppress this:

  7 >>> l[2] in dict.fromkeys(l)
True

However, is this trick really necessary?

yours,
Gerrit.

P.S.
Do other people also have CVS problems? In 98% of my tries to
do "cvs update -PCdfR", I get an error message: either
"reading from server: Connection reset by peer", or
"end of file from server (consult above messages if any)". The
same is true when diffing. In 2% of the tries, however, all
works as it should, so I'm cvs-update'ing in a while loop
while breaking out of it when it succeeds... :(

--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From jkraska at san.rr.com  Tue Jun 10 11:47:48 2003
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:47:48 GMT
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3he71hk52.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1u1b1h908.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3brx9xepd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1k7bwhnv5.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m33cikw4a0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1d6hng389.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <bc3dqt$es439$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <m3znkqikec.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3evbevs24rc6fde2g7tenba5rdp1uh9836@4ax.com>

>Actually, I believe it will chose the alternative that is earliest in
>the YACC input file (atleast bison does that).

This is one of the reasons I prefer ANTRL. In ANTLR grammars, one
cannot continue generating the parser until one either resolves the
ambiguity, or deliberately suppresses it.

C//

http://www.antlr.org




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sat Jun  7 12:14:05 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:14:05 -0600
Subject: Find & Replace in Zope
In-Reply-To: <425a7ca0.0306062305.efd326e@posting.google.com>; from noam@work2you.net on Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 12:05:18AM -0700
References: <425a7ca0.0306062305.efd326e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030607101405.B341@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Noam Cassif:
> Tring to find a sign in a string and replace it by "" (nothing)

    >>> 'abc'.replace('b', '')
    'ac'

I don't see what this has to do with Zope; perhaps I'm missing
something.

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "[W]e must be very careful when we give advice
staschuk at telusplanet.net    to younger people: sometimes they follow it!"
                             -- "The Humble Programmer", Edsger Dijkstra




From P at draigBrady.com  Fri Jun 13 11:06:49 2003
From: P at draigBrady.com (P at draigBrady.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:06:49 +0100
Subject: insert thousands separators
In-Reply-To: <3EE9E548.9010701@isst.fhg.de>
References: <3EE9E548.9010701@isst.fhg.de>
Message-ID: <3EE9E889.1090107@draigBrady.com>

Marcus Bergmann wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> how can I insert thousands separators into an integer or a string, e.g. 
> 1000000 to 1.000.000?

import locale

#this sets locale automatically (according to LC_ALL environment)
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL,'')

print locale.format("%d",1000000,1)

P?draig.




From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Jun  2 11:49:54 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:49:54 +0100
Subject: A Python application server?
References: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> <slrnbdmq44.i3p.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net>
Message-ID: <bbfrn0$2f8$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Andrew Walkingshaw" <andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnbdmq44.i3p.andrew-usenet at athena.jcn.srcf.net...
> In article <bbfmfo$ulf$1 at newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, Duncan Smith wrote:
> > Hello,
> >          I'm trying to put together a (basic) design for an online
> > examination system.  The system already exists, but is based on Java
> > technologies.  I have (probably prematurely) assured the author that the
> > system could have been developed in Python.  This is based in faith
rather
> > than reason, as I have never had cause to consider such a thing before
> > (although I can now envisage that I might need to develop a simple
> > application server within the next year or so).
>
> In terms of prior art, I and a fellow student, as holiday employees,
> wrote an exam server in Python (mod_python/apache, postgres backend),
> conformant to the QTI Lite spec (http://www.imsproject.org/ - basically
> multiple-choice visual/audio/textual questions), in about three months:
> we didn't have strong authentication or any sort of eavesdropping
> protection, though (we were doing everything via unencrypted HTTP). This
> was meant to be released as BSD license software at some point, but it
> never appeared. :(
>
> This makes me believe more experienced programmers could put together a
> rather better system in the same sort of timeframe.
>
> Is there any reason (type of question, etc) why you can't aim for a
> web-browser based solution on the client side, using SSL authentication
> or similar to counter MITM/eavesdropping/impersionation attacks?
>

Not as far as I'm aware.  I don't see the need for anything like RMI +
applets (but I'm *far* from an expert in this area).  If there's no
relatively pure Python equivalent, I can live with that.  But I'd like to be
armed with some good reasons why we don't need it :-).  I'm not a computer
scientist (and of course my associate is) so I'm guessing he might be able
to come up with some 'problems' I haven't even thought of.  But he's a
reasonable guy, so I reckon he could be convinced.  Cheers.

Duncan





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Jun 12 09:06:18 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:06:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Use __del__ methods to improve gc?
References: <vegt5ii1vo4v81@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93988EC153150duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Edward K. Ream" <edreamleo at charter.net> wrote in
news:vegt5ii1vo4v81 at corp.supernews.com: 

> My app has unlimited undo.  As a result, most "user" data never truly
> gets deleted: the undo stack keeps references to all such data alive
> "forever". 
> 
> I am wondering whether it would be a good idea to put dummy __del__
> methods in the user data classes.  Would this help the gc by telling
> the gc what not to look at?
> 
Remember the gc is generational. That means that any data that has survived 
a garbage collection is automatically excluded from most other garbage 
collections, so most of the time the grabage collector will ignore your 
user data objects anyway.

Or to put it another way, the garbage collector already knows not to look 
at your objects without your help.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Sun Jun 15 17:58:48 2003
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:58:48 -0300
Subject: Python articles
In-Reply-To: <nrkpevsm7psg011fvqs0qjh6uj2jjbmjph@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.1055704587.15481.python-list@python.org> <nrkpevsm7psg011fvqs0qjh6uj2jjbmjph@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030615215848.GA10616@ibook>

> >[1] https://moin.conectiva.com.br/GustavoNiemeyer
> 
> Your website is about 2 meters wide, but my monitor only about 300mm,
> so reading it is rather inconvenient.
> (IE V6 on Windows 2000 Pro)

Thanks for notifying me about this. I'll try to fix it,
once I have access to such beast. :-)

accepting-patches-ly y'rs

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net




From bh at intevation.de  Mon Jun  9 14:31:12 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 20:31:12 +0200
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
References: <mailman.1055139135.30925.python-list@python.org> <6qptlnux3w.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055177065.4464.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6qfzmjumq7.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:

> Quoth Bernhard Herzog:
>   [...]
> > How do I write code that raises and exception with an explicit traceback
> > object that works both with Python 2.4 and at least 2.3 (preferably 2.2
> > and 2.1 as well) and that does not issue warnings?
> 
> Not possible as the proposal stands (except, of course, by simply
> suppressing the warnings).

Suppressing it is pretty awkward because it happens at compile time so I
can't put the code to suppress it into the modules containing the
deprecated raise.

> This is a defect, but I couldn't come up with anything better when
> I was writing the PEP.

The easiest would be to introduce the new syntax with the future
statement in 2.4 and start issuing warnings several releases later.

I'd also recomment not issuing warnings about "raise SomeClass, val" in
2.4 either except perhaps when explicitly switched on. 

Warnings for string exceptions are fine with me, though.

> Part of my problem here is that I'm not
> familiar enough with real-life uses of the traceback argument.  Do
> you use it?

Yes, occasionally.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From leej at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Jun 16 04:09:51 2003
From: leej at dsl.pipex.com (Lee John Moore)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 08:09:51 GMT
Subject: Python class __init__(mandatory arguments?)
References: <bcitu2$jrrv8$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de> <bcj0ec$6fv$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bcju0f$jdg8n$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de>

One may as well begin with Bengt Richter's letter to comp.lang.python:
>
> On 15 Jun 2003 23:02:26 GMT, Lee John Moore <leej at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

Firstly, thanks to everybody who responded here.  Secondly, I'll
never post so close to midnight again. ;-)

[..]
>>class MyClass:
>>	param1 = None
>>	param2 = None
>>	def __init__(self, param1, param2):
>>		param1 = self.param1
>>		param2 = self.param2
> You have the 'self.' on the wrong side of the '=' if you
> want to bind the parameters as instance attributes.

Yep.  I just realised this when re-reading the posts.  Of
course, it should've been the other way round.  My
on-the-fly-example was bad and I would've realised if I had at
least tested it first.  :-(

[..]
>>I'm really unhappy that myinstance1 is allowed.  ;-)
> I don't think you actually tried it in the form above ;-)

You're right.  I'm learning by building a command-line router
controller (to bring the WWW link up and down) and using Dive
Into Python (.org) and the python.org tutorial as reference
material.  In my code, I assigned initial values to the
__init__() arguments (eg. def __init__(self, param1=None,
param2=None) - which is what made the arguments optional.  Doh!

Thanks again (I'm sorted now) ;-)
-- 
"However far you may travel in this world, you
will still occupy the same volume of space."
                - Traditional Ur-Bororo saying



From claird at lairds.com  Thu Jun 19 08:28:13 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:28:13 -0000
Subject: Alternatives to Python ?
References: <3EF18A03.3050706@netspace.net.au> <3ef162b1.1998842363@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <vf3b2tkehep50d@corp.supernews.com>

In article <3ef162b1.1998842363 at news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Alan Gauld <alan.gauld at btinternet.com> wrote:
			.
		[excellent advice
		on related matters]
			.
			.
>Haskell is the obvious choice. If its to do text processing
>snowball4 might be a wiser move. For web programming you might
			.
			.
			.
Searches for "SNOBOL" or "SNOBOL4" will be more satisfying.

If I knew a way to express a spelling correction more 
cordially, I would.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Tue Jun 10 19:19:40 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 00:19:40 +0100
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <mailman.1055261361.12074.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yfs1xy134hf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

sismex01 at hebmex.com writes:

> Yes, but computer languages do not benefit from having words
> with multiple distinct meanings.

Which is why really advanced languages all use early binding and a single
namespace?

> >>> def SpecialFunction(a,b,c) as Synchronized:
>          ....
> 
> This might tell many a user that this definition of SpecialFunction
> gives it an additional name, Synchronized, and not that the
> Synchronized() modifier is applied to the function SpecialFunction.

"hmm, let's see, 'as' ... where have I seen that word before... Oh yes, in
combination with the 'import' statement -- so clearly what's going on here is
that this thread-safe module here defines a function called 'Synchronized'
over and over again, just to be on the safe side."

I might just suffer from a lack of imagination, but somehow I doubt showing
code fragments like the above to fellow python programmers will uncover many
flesh-and-blood instantiations of your hypothetical user class (I'll quizz
some colleagues tomorrow).

'as



From jung-paz at t-online.de  Tue Jun 17 12:02:18 2003
From: jung-paz at t-online.de (Thomas Jung)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:02:18 +0200
Subject: swig and init_module or initmodule, windows XP
References: <bcn8cd$efu$00$1@news.t-online.com> <smq8kb99.fsf@python.net> <bcnccl$bp6$07$1@news.t-online.com> <n0ggk8mw.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <bcne2q$2kq$04$1@news.t-online.com>

"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:n0ggk8mw.fsf at python.net...
> [Please don't top-post. I've rearranged the following to compensate...]
>
> "Thomas Jung" <jung-paz at t-online.de> writes:
>
> > "Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:smq8kb99.fsf at python.net...
>
> >> "Jung-Paz" <jung-paz at t-online.de> writes:
> >>
> >> > I am using Python2.2, mingw and Swig 1.3.19, Windows XP, and trying
> >> > to build a module using the distutils.
>
> >> > Basically it works, but in the final linking step I get an
> >> > undefined reference to "initexample" (the module name is example).
>
> >> > This sounds reasonable, as the file example_wrap.c, as produced by
> >> > swig, contains only a function "init_example.c".  If I replace
> >> > "init_example" by hand with "initexample" and compile and link by
> >> > hand, everything is fine, and I get a loadable and usable module.
> >> > Any idea how I could make swig to produce other function names, or
> >> > whatever could help ?
> >>
> >> Sounds like you should name your extension _example.pyd instead of
> >> example.pyd...
> >>
> >
> > But: I could rename it once I have it - however, unless I change that
> > "init_example" to "initexample" by hand, it dies in the linking step
with a
> > unresolved reference to initexample ...
> >
> Can you post the setup script you use?
>
> Thomas

Here is setup.py:
========================================================================
# setup.py
import distutils
from distutils.core import setup, Extension

setup(name = "Simple example from swig website", version = "2.2",ext_modules
= [Extension("example",["example.i","example.c"])])
========================================================================

and example.c (from the SWIG tutorial):

=========================================================================
#include <time.h>
double My_variable = 3.0;

int fact(int n) {
    if (n <= 1) return 1;
    else return n*fact(n-1);
    }
int my_mod(int x, int y) {
    return (x%y);
    }
char *get_time() {
    time_t ltime;
    time(&ltime);
    return ctime(&ltime);
    }

===========================================================================

and example.i:

===========================================================================
/* example.i */

%module example

%{

/* Put header files here (optional) */

%}


extern double My_variable;

extern int fact(int n);

extern int my_mod(int x, int y);

extern char *get_time();

============================================================================
========================



I call then "python setup.py build_ext -cmingw32 (or -ccygwin, when I try
that with cygwin)

I just had a look at  SWIG-1.3.19/Source/Modules/python.cxx, there is a line
which changes module to _module, IF shadow classing is enabled.

However, I did not do that, at least not intentionally ...

Again, thank you very much ...



(BTW: what is top-posting ? How did I possibly do that ? I am sitting in
front of a windows machine, using outlook, and not really familiar with
windows.

My family is forcing me now to use this  :-)







From goodger at python.org  Mon Jun  2 22:36:50 2003
From: goodger at python.org (David Goodger)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 22:36:50 -0400
Subject: python-mode on OS X
In-Reply-To: <c3835e5f.0306021726.eda1ba6@posting.google.com>
References: <c3835e5f.0306021726.eda1ba6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbh1fo$648$1@main.gmane.org>

Chris Fonnesbeck wrote:
> I put the following in .emacs to load python-mode on startup:
> 
> '(autoload 'python-mode "python-mode" "Python editing mode" t)

   ^ is this quote the culprit, or a typo?  Shouldn't be there.

-- David Goodger






From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jun  9 17:34:08 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 23:34:08 +0200
Subject: interpreted
In-Reply-To: <5yednTf1NoAdanmjXTWcpQ@comcast.com>
References: <M6icneVATOpIWn6jXTWcrg@comcast.com>
	<5yednTf1NoAdanmjXTWcpQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3EE4FD50.8040808@ghaering.de>

Ifman1 wrote:
> Thanks....
> 
> what do you mean "anonymous coward"???

Somebody not using their real name on usenet and using a pseudonym like 
"Ifman1" instead. I call these people "anonymous cowards" :-)^

In some cases it's their intention to use these pseudonyms, in some 
cases they just haven't set up their mail client properly. In any case, 
I give them a nudge this way.

-- Gerhard

PS: I took the term from Slashdot, but it applies to usenet very well.




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jun 16 15:53:51 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:53:51 +0200
Subject: Looking for a (very) small http proxy in Python
In-Reply-To: <3eee1c7b$0$5407$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
References: <3eee1c7b$0$5407$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3eee204f$0$49108$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

adfgvx wrote:
> I am looking for a little script in Python that acts as a proxy. I only need
> to write in a file all the headers of the http requests and of the answers.
> That's all ! I know there are some proxies in Python (I looked at
> sourceforge and parnassus), but they are too complicated for me, I have no
> time to study and modify them to my needs.

Not Python, but what about http://www.ethereal.com/  ????
Fire it up, start the capture, click a link in your browser, and see
the HTTP headers scroll by on your screen... :-)

--Irmen




From gtalvola at nameconnector.com  Fri Jun  6 09:37:57 2003
From: gtalvola at nameconnector.com (Geoffrey Talvola)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:37:57 -0400 
Subject: Including binary files in a .py file; advice needed
Message-ID: <61957B071FF421419E567A28A45C7FE59AF4A9@mailbox.nameconnector.com>

Gary Duncan wrote:
> Here's what I want to do; distribute a .py file (a GUI app) with
> an embedded (binary) .GIF file (a photo of me at 1 yo ;) rather than
> distribute both separately. For convenience, mainly.
> 
> If in a Unix shell script, I'd uuencode the .GIF and include the
> printable-ASCII file in it as a 'here' file. When executed the script
> would 'cat' it out to e.g. a /tmp file from the main body of the
> script, then uudecode the /tmp file to revert to the original .GIF
> file. 
> 
> I imagine in Python, one could place the uuencoded file (lines)
> as a triple-quoted string, then uudecode it the .py program.
> 
> Anything better ?

Use repr().  For example:

>>> image = open('foo.jpeg', 'rb').read()
>>> image_repr = repr(image)
>>> out = open('foo.py', 'w')
>>> print >>out, 'foo =', image_repr
>>> out.close()
>>>
>>> import foo
>>> foo.foo == image
1
>>>

- Geoff




From ebodine at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 25 17:16:23 2003
From: ebodine at hotmail.com (Erick)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 14:16:23 -0700
Subject: Second Edition of "Python Programming on Win32"
Message-ID: <2de245.0306251316.2b8db85a@posting.google.com>

Just curious if there was a second edition of "Python Programming on
Win32" in the works.  If so, may I suggest a chapter covering
AcitveDirectory/ADSI/Exchange or some combination thereof.

--ERick



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jun 17 12:17:47 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:17:47 -0400
Subject: [OT] (was: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?)
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com> <Xns939D3EC4C9004JanC@213.119.4.94> <20030617063032.612B.KLAPOTEC@nusurf.at> <Xns939DABD5AD4CJanC@213.119.4.94>
Message-ID: <3EEF3F2B.6BA5BA72@engcorp.com>

JanC wrote:
> 
> Christopher Koppler <klapotec at nusurf.at> schreef:
> 
> >> IIRC the first cars had a maximum speed of about 3.5 km/h and could
> >> drive about 5 km far.  Preparing the car for that took about an hour,
> >> and afterwards you had to repair it for another 2 hours.  Even a
> >> pedestrian could go faster, further, cheaper, and carry more weight
> >> with him...   ;-)
> >>
> > Yes, but those were the *very* first cars - alpha releases, which were
> > quite soon replaced by much more stable beta versions, and 1908
> > already saw version 1.0: the Model T Ford.
> 
> Well, it took them rather long to reach a final version 1.0 then: the
> Belgian inventor Jean Lenoir drove his first car in 1863...

See http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aacarssteama.htm
for a picture of a the first steam-powered car, by Cugnot, from 1771, 
plus comments that the first theoretical plans for a motor vehicle
were drawn up by da Vinci and Newton (in the first occurrence of
pair programming? ;-).

It also explains the use case for Cugnot's car: hauling artillery
for the military.

Other interesting points: 

- "In 1789, the first U.S. patent for a steam-powered land vehicle 
was granted to Oliver Evans.", proving that the U.S. patent office 
was filled with morons who would grant patents for just about any 
old thing that someone else had already invented, even 214 years ago. :)

- "In Britain, from 1820 to 1840, steam-powered stagecoaches were in 
regular service. These were later banned from public roads and Britain's 
railroad system developed as a result.", showing that even before the
alpha releases mentioned above, their was a valid use case for 
non-horse-driven carriages, and customers using them, even if an
early spate of road-rage put an end to that practice. :-)

- "In 1871, Dr. J. W. Carhart, professor of physics at Wisconsin State 
University, and the J. I. Case Company built a working steam car that won 
a 200-mile race", without specifying whether the poor horse(*) that it was
racing against later made good eatin'.  One would assume it had to go
faster than 3.5km/h to win such a race.

-Peter

(*) There's actually no indication it was a horse that was involved.



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jun 20 14:33:35 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 18:33:35 GMT
Subject: Need help optimizing first script
References: <a34b632.0306190503.32483efe@posting.google.com> <bcue2q$kts$0@216.39.172.122> <87smq5558q.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bcvk1v$fhl$0@216.39.172.122>

On 20 Jun 2003 12:59:49 +0100, jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
>
>> On 19 Jun 2003 06:03:22 -0700, popup391 at yahoo.com (Frederic Lafleche) wrote:
>[...]
>> No one seems to have mentioned strftime yet ;-)
>[...]
>
>Um, except the original poster, and me.
You're right. I wonder why the OP defined determineFN when further down he did
use strftime for something very similar.
My comment to the OP re reading docs was off the mark, though. Sorry.

I saw your
--
def determineFN():
    """Return timestamp in yyyymmddhhmm format."""
    return ("%.4d"+"%.2d"*4) % time.localtime()[:5]

Note docstring style: for example, wording, spacing and use of
triple-double quotes (see the PEP for why).
--

and suffered a knee-jerk exception before I saw your immediately following

--
But we can do better.

def timestamp():
    """Return timestamp in yyyymmddhhmm format."""
    time.strftime("%Y%m%d%H%M")
--

Bottom line, I'm sympathetic to your
--
Hey, wait a minute: I just realised you already knew about strftime!
So why a separate function, AND this use of strftime directly?  At
this point I run out of energy.  :-)
--

You more than adequately covered it, sorry for butting in at all.
I guess was being more (or less?) than lazy ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From ulope at gmx.de  Tue Jun 10 21:09:05 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 03:09:05 +0200
Subject: Handling kill signals
References: <mailman.1055278547.15020.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc5vfl$fnodt$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>

"Gary Robinson" <grobinson at transpose.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1055278547.15020.python-list at python.org...
> For a daemon I'm writing, it would be very good if I could handle a kill
> signal sent out by the operating system during shutdown.
>
> But when I try to set up a handler, python rejects it:
>
> >>>> import signal
> >>>> def x(parm1, parm2):
> > ...     pass
> > ...
> >>>> signal.signal(signal.SIGKILL, x)
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > RuntimeError: (22, 'Invalid argument')
> >>>> signal.signal(signal.SIGHUP, x)
> > 0
> >>>>
>
> IOW, signal.signal accepts SIGHUP but not SIGKILL. How can I get it to
> accept SIGKILL?
>
> Or is there some other way I can enable my script to perform some cleanup
> when it's killed?
>
> (A handler assigned with atexit.register() doesn't seem to get called when
> the script is killed by the OS during shutdown.)
>

Though i get no error when trying to catch it (expectedly) doesn't work.
But to solve your problem you might want to catch the SIGTERM since IMHO its
sent by all linux(-alike) systems on shutdown before the SIGKILL signal...

HTH

Ciao Ulrich





From tadin_antispam at cirus.dhz.hr  Sun Jun 22 06:06:28 2003
From: tadin_antispam at cirus.dhz.hr (Marijan)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:06:28 +0100
Subject: Steaming PDF from Python Script to IE
References: <4b46139c.0306211630.1aeb3ffa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bd42lm$8f84$1@as201.hinet.hr>

Maybe this link can help:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65443

Marijan




From rmunn at pobox.com  Wed Jun  4 11:40:37 2003
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:40:37 GMT
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054662726.12651.python-list@python.org> <38ec68a6.0306031913.3600bc16@posting.google.com> <3EDD6610.3CABE86A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbds4o5.q8q.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> Asun Friere wrote:
>> 
>> "Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote in message news:<mailman.1054662726.12651.python-list at python.org>...
>> 
>> > "b = 1" does not return 1, just returns b. a and b are the same object now
>> > (they are not just equal, they are the very same).
>> >
>> They are, but this has little to do with the fact that both assigned
>> their values using a single statement. ie:
>> >>>sys.ps1 = '? '
>> ? a = 1
>> ? b = 1
>> ? a is b
>> 1
> 
> Actually it has _everything_ to do with the mechanism by which your 
> example would produce a result of 1 except with low integers.
> 
> The interpreter pre-constructs and caches all the integers from -1 (?)
> to 100 (or maybe it's from 0 to 100... whatever) and always reuses them
> instead of creating new objects with the same integer values.  Try this:
> 
>>>> a = 556
>>>> b = 556
>>>> a is b
> 0
>>>> a = b = 556
>>>> a is b
> 1

Correct. Small integers and short strings both get cached for
performance reasons. Small integers in particular are likely to be used
over and over (especially the numbers 1 and 0). If you really want to
test the effects of assignment on identity, use a mutable type like
lists.

=== Begin Python transcript ===
>>> a = b = []
>>> a
[]
>>> b
[]
>>> id(a)
135714444
>>> id(b)
135714444
>>> a is b
1
>>> a = []
>>> b = []
>>> id(a)
135714732
>>> id(b)
135714508
>>> a is b
0
==== End Python transcript ====

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838



From nagylzs at freemail.hu  Tue Jun  3 10:27:29 2003
From: nagylzs at freemail.hu (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Nagy_L=E1szl=F3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 16:27:29 +0200
Subject: PIL + bump map
Message-ID: <3EDCB051.2080803@freemail.hu>

I'm a newbie to Python Imaging Library. I searched for something like 
Bump Map in Gimp but I could not find a solution.
It would be the best to have the same filter in PIL but I can live with 
something similar that gives me 'elevation' feeling on
a smooth gradient image. My task is to split several 6000x4800 pixel 
image into many smaller regions and apply differents
effects on them. So I cannot use Gimp because there are thousands of 
images. Please give me a point to start with.
Many thanks.

   Laci 1.0






From jansun at home.se  Thu Jun  5 08:23:46 2003
From: jansun at home.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Sundstr=F6m?=)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 05:23:46 -0700
Subject: Characters in Python
Message-ID: <aaf09156.0306050423.21b45f6@posting.google.com>

This is a newbie question, but...

I just downloaded Pyton 2.2.2 for Windows and started exploring it.
I installed it so I can use TextPad or IDLE 0.8 with it and all ran
just fine, until I started to write strings with scandinavian
characters in them.

   >>> str = '???'
   UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

It works fine in a DOS console window or run from TextPad if I do
something like

   str = '???'
   print str


Python, or perhaps IDLE rather, doesn't seem toaccept characters with 
codes over 127. 
Is there a simple way to turn off this obscession with 7-bit ASCII?

And how can one easily change what Python considers to be
default character encoding? 
I couldn't find anything about that in the tutorial.



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Jun 17 11:36:24 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:36:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <20030617090918.9697.qmail@green.zadka.com>
References: <qyzHa.100693$pR3.2190677@news1.tin.it>,
 <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com>
 <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl>
 <mailman.1055784208.22718.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.1055813915.12726.python-list@python.org> <20030617090918.9697.qmail@green.zadka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306170824360.1797@ns0.tbye.com>

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Moshe Zadka wrote:

> Just because translating from sane-speak to accountant-lingo is
> non-trivial does not mean source code is not a liability]

Hi Moshe,

Can you clarify what you mean by "source code is always a liability"? I've
read that comment from you many times in this thread and either I'm not
"getting it" or it just doesn't make much sense. If I understand you
correctly, then with that line of thinking you could just as easily argue

"employees are always a liability"
"office space is always a liability"
"computers are always a liability"

(and in that sense it is so non-revelatory that it's not worth repeating,
so hopefully I'm simply misunderstanding you)

Note, for the record, that I _don't_ consider source code to be some
priceless asset, and I think everyone realizes that having less code to
maintain is a Good Thing.

Thanks,
Dave




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sat Jun 21 02:56:07 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 02:56:07 -0400
Subject: Find a substring withing a string...
References: <MPG.195db98e90b83bb49899fe@netnews.attbi.com>
 <5_SIa.672$BM.513812@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <HGA9+kKkXIVY092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|> simple task of testing to see if a substring exists within string.  I

  % python
  Python 2.3a2 (#0, Feb 21 2003, 19:35:57) [EMX GCC 2.8.1] on os2emx
  Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
  >>> 'eggs' in 'spam and eggs are tasty'
  True

But you need the latest version.

--
---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------





From edreamleo at charter.net  Sat Jun 21 18:54:31 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:54:31 -0500
Subject: Is o.__dict__ = {}  valid?
Message-ID: <vf9ohelotr7a4a@corp.supernews.com>

My app supports multiple windows; it would be tidy to reclaim the storage
associated with a window when the window closes.  The objects in such
windows contain many references to each other, so rather than trying to
track down every last pointer anywhere in this mass of objects, it appears
simple and effective just to break the references between objects "by hand"
when a window closes.

I'd like your comments about the following function:

def clearAllIvars (o):

    """Clear all ivars of o, a member of some class."""

    if 0: # Somewhat faster. Is it valid?
        o.__dict__ = {}
    else:
         for name in o.__dict__.keys():
            setattr(o,name,None)

My questions:

1. Is it proper to do o.__dict__ = {} ?  I haven't found an explicit
prohibition.

2. If it is proper, would such an assignment be sure to get rid of all the
references in __dict__?  It does seem to work.

3. If o.__dict__ = {} is not valid, is there any standard way to get the
same effect quickly?

Any other comments or suggestions?  Thanks for your help.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Jun 15 13:49:41 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:49:41 GMT
Subject: timeit
References: <8a2Ha.209222$M01.92818@sccrnsc02>
Message-ID: <Vk2Ha.178713$g92.3524937@news2.tin.it>

Bryan wrote:

> i tried timeit for the first time today, pretty darn impressive.  i've
> noticed that postings in this newsgroup use timeit on the command line and
> with usually just one simple statement or loop.

Actually I also use it on the command line with several statements (on
Unix with the Bash shell making it convenient).

> is this the only way to
> use
> timeit?  

No!

> can timeit be used within a script?  

Of course.  You can import it and use its Timer class.

> or to execute whole scripts?
> i guess the obvious anwer that one is:
> 
> timeit -s"import myscript" "myscript.main()"

Of course, that's quite acceptable, too.


> i'm just curious how other are exploiting timeit.

So far I'm mostly using it from the command line, but the facilities
for using it as an imported module seem also excellent.


Alex




From yaipa at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 27 01:43:24 2003
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 26 Jun 2003 22:43:24 -0700
Subject: Test-Driven Dev. (Kent Beck) Python Chapter Question
References: <6e07b825.0306252246.16fa828@posting.google.com> <3EFAF786.76B66629@engcorp.com> <vfmilbbkm6lm31@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0306262143.4c5735d5@posting.google.com>

Steven, Peter, John,

Thanks, yes now I see run() looses it's argument in ch21 and
doesn't get it back until page 3 of chapter 23.

I believe that I have found one other error in ch19, so I think that 
I will go a head and finish out xUnit fully and collect all the bits and
pieces into a single errata once I am done.  I'll make sure to cross post 
as suggested.

Thanks for all the help, there for a while I thought I had really 
slipped off the deep end. One does not expect such things when studying 
xUnit methods.

Even with a couple of gotchas, I still believe that the book is of great 
value to anyone trying to understand Unit Testing.

   --Alan



"John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<vfmilbbkm6lm31 at news.supernews.com>...
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> news:3EFAF786.76B66629 at engcorp.com...
> > "yaipa h." wrote:
> > >
> > > In Chapter 20. Cleaning Up After
> > >
> > > When adding "tearDown()" to "TestCase" in xUnit, the TestCase method
>  run()
> > > suddenly takes on a new argument named "result."  In the next line
>  result
> > > is used as "result.testStarted()."  Oddly, when TestCase.run() is
>  called by
> > > "TestCaseTest" it is called without an argument, so of course Python
>  complains.
> > > If I drop "result" from the argument list and strike the line
> > > "result.testStarted()" everything works fine. I've looked and
> > > there seems to be no code download page or errata available.
> > >
> > > Anyone had similar problems with this chapter or am I reading over
> > > something here?
> >
> > I think you're right.  I looked ahead at page 114 and found what I
> > think is the first place where run() actually takes a TestResult
> > object, in a later chapter.
> >
> > It looks like this was an early mistake, as it appears even in the
>  first
> > draft of the book which had this chapter, from March 9 last year.
> > (See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/files/ for
> ref.)
> 
> I agree, it looks like a misprint. There's nothing in the narrative in
> Chapter
> 20 to justify putting in the collecting parameter, while there's a
> discussion in
> Chapter 23, including all the changes to the various calls that resulted
> from
> adding the parameter.
> 
> > Yaipa, if you submit this errata report on the testdrivendevelopment
> > group on Yahoo Groups it would probably be appreciated.
> >
> > -Peter
> 
> John Roth



From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Jun  3 13:50:13 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 19:50:13 +0200
Subject: pychecker checks files by executing them ??
References: <3EDCB6BF.1090909@molgen.mpg.de> <u1b7xkwr.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <just-7B6E29.19501303062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <u1b7xkwr.fsf at python.net>,
 Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:

> Axel Kowald <kowald at molgen.mpg.de> writes:
> 
> > I got pychecker and installed it on my w2k machine as described. It
> > also seems to work, but when I do:
> > 
> > pychecker myFile.py   it actually "executes"  myFile.py, while
> > checking it. Is this the correct behaviour??
>
> > Obviously I would like to check my scripts without executing them. Any
> > idea what's going on ?
> > 
> pychecker imports them, not executes them.

Hm, I don't understand how you can make that distinction: if you import 
a module, it gets executed.

> Protect the main function or
> what it is in your case by the usual 'if __name__ == "__main__":' idiom
> (which you should do anyway IMO), and you are fine.

True. Yet it would be far better if PyChecker would analyze the compiled 
byte code instead of executing it. The same goes for pydoc btw.

Just



From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jun 12 22:19:34 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:19:34 +1200
Subject: Octets calculation?
In-Reply-To: <3ee88ede$0$645$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <65eFa.634621$Si4.577158@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <bc673d$f0tpn$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EE79F73.E08C2554@alcyone.com> <mailman.1055369063.13758.python-list@python.org> <3ee88ede$0$645$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <bcbb0q$hf4ub$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> It's not rare in the DSP world.  TI's line of FP DSPs all had
> 32-bit bytes.  Where "byte" is used in the sense of the "C"
> standard as the smallest unite of addressable memory.

I thought the C standard used the word "char" for
that, not "byte".

If DSP people really use the word "byte" that
way, they're utterly barking, IMO. It's just too
confusing for words. (Or should I say octet-groups?-)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Jun  3 14:06:43 2003
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 11:06:43 -0700
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D018855CC@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <009901c329fa$e50f3dd0$21795418@dell1700>

> >>> a = b = 2
> >>> b
> 2
> >>> a
> 2
> >>> id(a)
> 135286056
> >>> id(b)
> 135286056
> >>> a is b
> 1
> 
> "b = 1" does not return 1, just returns b. a and b are the same object
now
> (they are not just equal, they are the very same).

This isn't quite true either. "b = 1" doesn't return anything. In fact,
binding "a" is done first.

Cheers,
Brian





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Jun  3 18:32:10 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 18:32:10 -0400
Subject: Help with coroutine-based state machines?
References: <3ED622CA.4B01E3C1@hotmail.com>
 <mailman.1054249933.7365.python-list@python.org>
 <3ED76105.CB8F3ECF@hotmail.com>
 <mailman.1054317657.5272.python-list@python.org>
 <3EDC69DF.A46A97D4@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <qHS3+kKkX4xN092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote previously:
|def squares(n):
|    for i in xrange(n):
|        yield n, n*n
|sqgen = squares(100)
|for i, sq in sqgen():
|    print "The square of %d is %d" % (i, sq)

Should be:

    def squares(n):
        for i in xrange(n):
            yield i, i*i    # <-- i
    sqgen = squares(100)
    for i, sq in sqgen:     # <-- no parens
        print "The square of %d is %d" % (i, sq)

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.




From jarausch at skynet.be  Tue Jun  3 09:55:05 2003
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 15:55:05 +0200
Subject: Bi-directional communication with external programs?
In-Reply-To: <bbi5if$h3u$1@rznews2.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>
References: <bbi5if$h3u$1@rznews2.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>
Message-ID: <3EDCA8B9.6060904@skynet.be>

Norbert Nemec wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> can anybody help me on this: I want to communicate bidirectionally with a
> gnuplot session I spawned from python.
> 
> I.e.
> * popen3 for input/output/stderr
> * write one command
> * read and evaluate result
> * write next command
> * read and evaluate result
> etc.
> 

Maybe you want to use  ExpectPy  http://expectpy.sourceforge.net

-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jun  3 23:22:56 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 23:22:56 -0400
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054662726.12651.python-list@python.org> <38ec68a6.0306031913.3600bc16@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EDD6610.3CABE86A@engcorp.com>

Asun Friere wrote:
> 
> "Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote in message news:<mailman.1054662726.12651.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> > "b = 1" does not return 1, just returns b. a and b are the same object now
> > (they are not just equal, they are the very same).
> >
> They are, but this has little to do with the fact that both assigned
> their values using a single statement. ie:
> >>>sys.ps1 = '? '
> ? a = 1
> ? b = 1
> ? a is b
> 1

Actually it has _everything_ to do with the mechanism by which your 
example would produce a result of 1 except with low integers.

The interpreter pre-constructs and caches all the integers from -1 (?)
to 100 (or maybe it's from 0 to 100... whatever) and always reuses them
instead of creating new objects with the same integer values.  Try this:

>>> a = 556
>>> b = 556
>>> a is b
0
>>> a = b = 556
>>> a is b
1

-Peter



From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Jun  6 13:46:03 2003
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 17:46:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Porridge 0.0
References: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <VYNCa.66$5L6.15@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <mailman.1054587904.7131.python-list@python.org> <l1he77mztp.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <slrnbdoi2k.che.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <l18ysin9rf.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>  <3edfbb60$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbe1kqr.3tm.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <3edfbb60$1 at nntp0.pdx.net>, Scott David Daniels wrote:
[snip]
>Can anyone design a single expresion type that includes all of
>these (comefrom, side-effect assign, sort-expression, and
>conditional-expression into a single operator that will be
>Porridge's killer-app?

Not sure if it's applicable, but the detect statement covers all
control structures:

  http://www.idi.ntnu.no/~mlh/python/detect.html

I don't have any complete documentation on it at the moment, but the
partition.py example shows how it works. The original statement had
somewhat different syntax, with separate cleanup-code in a code block
after the labels (strings in the Python version). In my implementation
I have simply put the cleanup code in the same code block as the label
(before the label).

>-Scott David Daniels
>Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland                "In this house we obey the laws of
http://hetland.org                 thermodynamics!"    Homer Simpson



From cben at techunix.technion.ac.il  Tue Jun 17 08:29:14 2003
From: cben at techunix.technion.ac.il (Beni Cherniavsky)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:29:14 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Snapshottable re-iterable iterators
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.51.0306171429010.10627@techunix.technion.ac.il>

>From time to time I wanted to iterate the same iterator more than once
- but destructive iterators don't allow this.  So I wrote a class for
wrapping destructive iterators.  It gives you an iterable, whose
__iter__ goes over the values of the underlying iterator - but those
are only requested once.  To make it fancy, I made sure that when you
release the iterable and iterate with all your iterators on it past
any point, no refernces remain to values older than it (I used a
linked list, bulit from two-item lists).

Then I thought that I do not want this multiple-iteration ability
always from the start.  I wanted (and built) an iterator that could be
"snapshotted"  at any moment - and the "snapshot" is a new iterator,
returning the same values from this point in time.  It's similar in
spirit to the `fork` system call.  Makes it easy to e.g. implement
lookahead on a stream - you fork the stream iterator, iterate on the
"child" stream and then can continue with the

Looking for a good method name for this snapshotting, I thought of
`__iter__` - that's where I ask for your comments.  I got an iterator
that is destructive in the sense that calling ``.next()`` on it
advances it irreversibly - but it is an iterable at the same time and
calling ``.__iter__()`` on it creates a new iterator, with the same
future.

So the question is: is it a good idea to violate the iterator protocol
in this way - being an iterator but returning a "copy" of self from
`__iter__` rather than self?  On one hand, it seems cute.  On the
other, it makes it hard to avoid the forking when you don't want it.

If I'll go with another method rather than `__iter__`, the best
alternatives seem to be `copy` and `fork`.

The code is availiable at:

http://www.technion.ac.il/~cben/python/reiter.py

If you didn't understand what I'm talking about, the doctest example
there should make it clear.

-- 
Beni Cherniavsky <cben at tx.technion.ac.il>
If I don't hack on it, who will?  And if I don't GPL it, what am I?
And why not now?




From llafba at gmx.net  Fri Jun 27 04:19:31 2003
From: llafba at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:19:31 +0200
Subject: always fill out complete window
References: <3EFB4C9F.8020709@gmx.net> <hsMKa.328295$3n5.321405@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3EFBFE13.5090704@gmx.net>

Hi Steve,

I used Boa Constructor.
The code looks like the follwoing:
self.textCtrl1 = wxTextCtrl(id=wxID_WXFRAME1TEXTCTRL1, name='textCtrl1',
              parent=self.panel2, pos=wxPoint(136, 64), size=wxSize(264, 
176),
              style=wxTE_MULTILINE, value=u'')

Thanks for your help.
Tom


Steve Holden wrote:

>"Tom" <llafba at gmx.net> wrote in message news:3EFB4C9F.8020709 at gmx.net...
>  
>
>>Hi folks,
>>
>>I have a splitter window in a GUI that I built. I added a TextCtrl
>>window to the right side of my splitter window. Because I don't want to
>>add anything else to this side of the window it would be great if the
>>TextCtrl window could fill out the complete side. I couldn't find the
>>appropriate command or configuration to resize the TextCtrl window
>>automatically no matter what I do with my mainframe window.
>>
>
>It would help if you told us which GUI you were using (Tkinter, wxPython,
>PyQT, etc.) and perhaps posted a little sample code to gice us the idea.
>
>regards
>--
>Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
>Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/
>  
>




From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Fri Jun 20 07:26:25 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:26:25 +0200
Subject: shebang strange thing...
Message-ID: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Hi,

I installed a brand new linux Mandrake and I noticed a strange thing when
using the shebang in a python script.

$ which python
/usr/bin/python

$ python
...
>>>

$ /usr/bin/python
...
>>>

myscript.py:
----------
#!/usr/bin/python
...
----------

$ chmod +x myscript.py

$ ./myscript.py
error : interpreter not found. (!!!)

The shebang works for #!/bin/sh (and others)

Did I miss something ?

Thanks in advance for any hint.

--Gilles




From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Jun  9 07:47:53 2003
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:47:53 +0200
Subject: Python regular expression question
In-Reply-To: <3ee30318$0$31508$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
References: <3ee30318$0$31508$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <20030609114753.GC752@thomas-guettler.de>

On Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 07:34:27PM +1000, DJ wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I cant figure out a re that matches a string in a sentance.
> The string can be anywhere in the sentance
> 
> eg
> 
> "dog"
> 
> I walked my dog today

Maybe \w* is what you are looking for:

import re 
sentence="I walked my dog today" 
words=re.findall(r'\w*', sentence) 
print words

#skip empty strings:
for word in words:
    if not word:
        continue
    print word
 
-->
['I', '', 'walked', '', 'my', '', 'dog', '', 'today', '']
I
walked
my
dog
today

 thomas

-- 
Thomas Guettler <guettli at thomas-guettler.de>
http://www.thomas-guettler.de





From shalehperry at attbi.com  Sun Jun  1 13:17:23 2003
From: shalehperry at attbi.com (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 10:17:23 -0700
Subject: Some pythonic advice needed
In-Reply-To: <3EDA1409.5090707@pandora.be>
References: <EOmCa.31502$1u5.2321@afrodite.telenet-ops.be> <2945551.1054476227@dbforums.com> <3EDA1409.5090707@pandora.be>
Message-ID: <200306011017.23563.shalehperry@attbi.com>

> Sorry if I can't explain my problem very clear.
>
> I guess I'm looking for a class with the following functions:
>
> - getQuestion(Language) which would return a tuple (questionID,
> question, answer, [alternatives]). Alternatives would be a list of
> (answer, ID) pairs. This would allow me to update the score of an
> alternative too if she would enter that instead of the expected answer.
>
> - updateQuestion(questionID, Score)
> This would update the score of an word-pair, pushing it further back in
> the list of questions.

long term you are going to want a database behind this.  Perhaps not a full 
SQL daemon process but something with a little more support than a dict.  If 
you try to code this yourself you will end up writing a special purpose 
database anyways.

Perhaps something like gadfly will accelerate your learning curve.





From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Thu Jun  5 17:35:42 2003
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:35:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Efficient data flow between orthogonal C extensions?
References: <slrnbdsl66.21h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no> <87el29rpmv.fsf@smtp.gsi.de> <M75SJKAOev3+EwLv@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <6qfzmokc1t.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <slrnbduccc.32h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>  <6qbrxck7e9.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbdvdte.dfi.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <6qbrxck7e9.fsf at salmakis.intevation.de>, Bernhard Herzog wrote:
>
>mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) writes:
>
>> Somewhat similar to the approach in the standard docs, then, except
>> that you don't #include the .h-file of each extension...? (I'll look
>> into the source.)
>
>pstokenize #includes filter.h which contains a declaration of the struct
>type and various function pointer types.

That sounds OK. I don't mind having one .h file defining the general
protocol to be used, as long as the extensions don't need to know
about each other, and the framework doesn't have to know of the
various extensions at compile time.

[snip]

Thanks for the rest of your tips.

- M

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland                "In this house we obey the laws of
http://hetland.org                 thermodynamics!"    Homer Simpson



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Jun  2 12:28:57 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 11:28:57 -0500
Subject: ascii tables
In-Reply-To: <20030529223746.GB6509@mail.felnet> (Carel Fellinger's message
 of "Fri, 30 May 2003 00:37:46 +0200")
References: <mailman.1054224096.17795.python-list@python.org>
	<3ED6511F.B75B1C10@engcorp.com> <m2n0h5vap0.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<20030529223746.GB6509@mail.felnet>
Message-ID: <m2isroigty.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Carel" == Carel Fellinger <carel.fellinger at chello.nl> writes:

    Carel> it's old printer wisdom that one should be very reluctant
    Carel> to use lines in tables, and indeed I find the following
    Carel> much easier on the eyes:

I agree, I modified ascii_table to take a '' argument for rowSep,
which prints the table as you suggested, and added a repeatHeader
entry to allow you to repeat the header every so many lines for long
tables.  I also added headerColSep and headerRowSep variables so that
the separator for headers and regular rows can be different, with
default values making them the same.

    Carel> you could also use str's center, ljust and rjust methods.

Another good suggestion, implemented below.

The code below, with suitable args, now prints:

Name    :  Age : Sex  :  Weight :  Height
*****************************************
John        35    M       170.0      60.1
Miriam      31    F       135.0      58.2
Rahel        5    F        40.0      48.2
Ava          2    F        25.0      30.0

  
Thanks,
John Hunter

def ascii_table(headers, cols, fmts, alignments=None,
                rowSep='-', colSep='|', pad=1,
                headerRowSep=None,
                headerColSep=None,
                repeatHeader=0):
    """
    Pretty print the homogenous lists in cols.

    headers is a len(columns) tuple of header strings.
    cols is a len(columns) tuple of homogeneous lists (len num rows)
    fmts is a len(columns) tuple of format strings.
    alignments, if not None, is a list of horiz alignment strings:
                 'l' or 'r' or 'c'.  Default is 'l'


    repeatHeader, if not 0, will repeat the header every repeatHeader
          rows

    rowSep is used to join the rows; ifis '', rows will be joined with a newline alone

    colSep is used to join the columns
    
    headerRowSep is used to separate the headers from the other rows.
        If None, just use rowSep

    headerColSep is used to separate the header columns.  If None,
       just use colSep
    

    Example usage:

    headers = 'Name', 'Age', 'Sex', 'Weight', 'Height'
    names = 'John', 'Miriam', 'Rahel', 'Ava'
    ages = 35, 31, 5, 2
    sexes = 'M', 'F', 'F', 'F'
    weights  = 170, 135, 40, 25
    heights  = 60.1, 58.2, 48.2, 30

    print ascii_table(headers,
                      cols = (names, ages, sexes, weights, heights),
                      fmts = ('%s', '%d', '%s', '%1.1f', '%1.1f'),
                      alignments = ('l', 'r', 'c', 'r', 'r'),
                      )

    """
    
    if alignments is None:
        alignments = ['l']*len(cols)

    if headerColSep is None: headerColSep = colSep
    colSepWid = max(len(colSep), len(headerColSep))
    colSep = ' '*pad + colSep + ' '*pad
    headerColSep = ' '*pad + headerColSep + ' '*pad

    
    def pad_entry(entry, align, width):

        if align=='l': return entry.ljust(width)
        elif align=='r': return entry.rjust(width)
        else: return entry.center(width)

    colStrs = []
    headerStrs = []
    widths = []
    
    for col,fmt,header,align in zip(cols, fmts, headers, alignments):

        entries = [fmt % val for val in col]
        width = max(len(header), max(map(len, entries))) + colSepWid
        colStrs.append([pad_entry(entry, align, width)
                        for entry in entries])
        headerStrs.append( pad_entry(header, align, width) )




    lines = [colSep.join(tup) for tup in zip(*colStrs)]
    header = headerColSep.join(headerStrs)
    maxLen = max(len(header), max(map(len, lines)))

    if rowSep is '':  rowSep = '\n'
    else: rowSep = '\n' + rowSep*maxLen + '\n'

    if headerRowSep is None: headerRowSep = rowSep
    else: headerRowSep = '\n' + headerRowSep*maxLen + '\n'


    s = header + headerRowSep
    for i,line in enumerate(lines):
       if repeatHeader and i>0 and i%repeatHeader==0:
          s += '\n' + header + headerRowSep           
       s += line + rowSep
    return s

if __name__=='__main__':
   headers = 'Name', 'Age', 'Sex', 'Weight', 'Height'
   names = 'John', 'Miriam', 'Rahel', 'Ava'
   ages = 35, 31, 5, 2
   sexes = 'M', 'F', 'F', 'F'
   weights  = 170, 135, 40, 25
   heights  = 60.1, 58.2, 48.2, 30

   print ascii_table(headers,
                     cols = (names, ages, sexes, weights, heights),
                     fmts = ('%s', '%d', '%s', '%1.1f', '%1.1f'),
                     alignments = ('l', 'r', 'c', 'r', 'r'),
                     repeatHeader=0,
                     rowSep='',
                     colSep=' ',
                     headerRowSep = '*',
                     headerColSep = ':',
                     pad=1,
                     )




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jun 17 12:40:21 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:40:21 -0500
Subject: analyzing lock contention in multi-threaded app?
In-Reply-To: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHIEGOFPAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <16111.3154.71808.325818@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHIEGOFPAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <16111.17525.365865.552564@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Tim> [Skip]
    >> I was reading the PEP 319 thread on python-dev yesterday and a
    >> question popped into my brain with recurs (to me) from time-to-time.
    >> Is there a decent way to analyze a multi-threaded app for lock
    >> contention?

    Tim> No, locks are too low-level.  If you have to use locks, ensure that
    Tim> no thread ever requires holding more than one lock at a time.  Then
    Tim> deadlock is impossible.  If a thread has to hold more than one lock
    Tim> at a time, then ensure that all threads acquire locks in a fixed
    Tim> global order; then deadlock is also impossible.  Regardless of
    Tim> approach, strive to hold locks over as small a stretch of code as
    Tim> possible.

I can see I was too vague in my description.  I'm not really concerned with
deadlock since no thread holds more than one lock at a time.  I'm more
interested in knowing if a thread had to wait to get a lock or take an
object off the queue.

After my post it occurred to me that instead of simply calling
lock.acquire(), since I only use blocking calls to get locks, I could define
an acquire method which looks like this:

    def acquire(lock, name):
        result = lock.acquire(blocking=False)
        if not result:
            log("lock wait: %s" % name)
            lock.acquire()
        return True

and then call:

    lock = threading.RLock()
    ...
    self.acquire(lock, "purpose")
    try:
        block
    finally:
        lock.release()

I think that will probably serve my needs at some small extra cost to
acquire locks.

Skip




From theller at python.net  Thu Jun 26 14:27:05 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:27:05 +0200
Subject: ctypes 0.6.2 released
Message-ID: <llvor8xy.fsf@python.net>

Overview

    ctypes is a ffi (Foreign Function Interface) package for Python.

    It allows to call functions exposed from dlls/shared libraries and
    has extensive facilities to create, access and manipulate simple
    and complicated C data types transparently from Python - in other
    words: wrap libraries in pure Python.

    ctypes runs on Windows, MacOS X, Linux, Solaris, the latter three
    require that your machine is supported by libffi.

    On Windows, ctypes contains (the beginning of) a COM framework
    mainly targetted to use and implement custom COM interfaces.

Changes in version 0.6.2

    Fixed a bug which prevented callback functions to return data types
    other than integers.  They can now also return pointers, floats, and
    doubles.

    It is now possible to pass structures and unions to function calls
    *by value*.  Currently this works only on Windows.

    A lot of changes to the COM package, but all this is still work in
    progress and unstable, and it has to be properly documented.

Homepage

    http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/

Downloads

    https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=71702


Thomas






From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Thu Jun 19 11:02:33 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 08:02:33 -0700
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
References: <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6@posting.google.com> <94974e1a.0306182332.5d0c4ac8@posting.google.com> <bcshoh$kb8$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <eppstein-7BC338.08023319062003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <bcshoh$kb8$1 at news.hccnet.nl>,
 anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote:

> Output from a test run:
> 
> zipped  : 0.985 sec.
> ranged  : 0.425 sec.
> inplace : 0.206 sec.

Interesting.  When I try it, what I find is that zipped is usually but 
not always fastest, inplace is a little slower, and ranged is 
significantly slower -- data at end of message.

I tried also a simple generator based one but it didn't do better than 
the others:

def generate(L):
    return list(generator(L))

def generator(L):
   last = object()
   for x in L:
      if x != last:
         yield x
         last = x
    
The test data:

% python test.py
zipped  : 0.090 sec.
ranged  : 0.190 sec.
inplace : 0.090 sec.
generate: 0.120 sec.
% python test.py
zipped  : 0.090 sec.
ranged  : 0.180 sec.
inplace : 0.100 sec.
generate: 0.110 sec.
% python test.py
zipped  : 0.130 sec.
ranged  : 0.170 sec.
inplace : 0.100 sec.
generate: 0.110 sec.
% python test.py
zipped  : 0.070 sec.
ranged  : 0.150 sec.
inplace : 0.110 sec.
generate: 0.110 sec.
% python test.py
zipped  : 0.060 sec.
ranged  : 0.170 sec.
inplace : 0.090 sec.
generate: 0.090 sec.
% python test.py
zipped  : 0.040 sec.
ranged  : 0.170 sec.
inplace : 0.110 sec.
generate: 0.110 sec.
% python test.py
zipped  : 0.040 sec.
ranged  : 0.150 sec.
inplace : 0.100 sec.
generate: 0.100 sec.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jun 13 07:39:04 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:39:04 +0200
Subject: New programming interface for PostgreSQL -- was: hi
In-Reply-To: <20030613111148.GB7973@csola.ugyvitelszolgaltato.hu>
References: <20030613111148.GB7973@csola.ugyvitelszolgaltato.hu>
Message-ID: <3EE9B7D8.4000408@ghaering.de>

Attila Szabo wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I wrote a complete programming interface with curses support
> mainly for using with postgres.
> It has integrated list writer, simple file manager, simple file viewer,
> printer support, printer filters, database routines, search functions, etc...
> Also has message sending functions over the net to other database users,
> thread support, etc...
> The curses interface is completely a new-wave design i think
> (or at least i hope) it is unique.
> 
> We replaced dataflex with it.
> I'd like to know if there is some interest toward the interface.

Definitely!

-- Gerhard

PS: You might want to choose a more descriptive subject next time. This 
newsgroup gets so much traffic that many people only read the messages 
where the subject appears interesting to them.





From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jun 10 05:15:20 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 09:15:20 GMT
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054816332.23346.python-list@python.org> <l165nkl84v.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <bc47j8$1sc$0@216.39.172.122>

On 05 Jun 2003 18:57:36 +0100, Ed Avis <ed at membled.com> wrote:

>Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> writes:
>
>>>    table = {'setcolour': lambda x: b = x,
>>>             'invertcolour': lambda x: b = inverted[b],
>
>>>However it is not possible to write it as above because anonymous
>>>functions don't allow assignment, or at least, not with =.
>
>>    table = {'setcolour': lambda setgs, x: setattr(setgs, 'b', x),
>>             'invertcolour': lambda setgs, x: setattr(setgs, 'b', inverted[b]),
>
>>Of course, you can argue that using setattr is simply another way of
>>doing assignment (but with a function, so it can be done in a lamda)
>>-- which would be true.
>
>Yes.  Or even, instead of having a new class each time it might be
>worthwhile to define a 'holder':
>
>    class Holder(object):
>      def set(v):
>        self.v = v
>      def get():
>        return self.v
>
>    bh = Holder()
>    table = {'setcolour': lambda x: bh.set(x), ...}
>
>So inside the parallel universe of lambda expressions, a.set(b) is
>what you say instead of a = b.
>
You can use = fairly freely if you redefine that class and parenthesize
your "assignments," e.g.,

 >>> class NS:
 ...     def __init__(self, **kw): self.__dict__.update(kw)
 ...     __call__ = __init__
 ...
 >>> ns = NS(x=123)
 >>> ns.x
 123
 >>> ns(x=0, y=456)
 >>> ns.x, ns.y
 (0, 456)
 >>> ns(x=2,y=3) or ns(z=ns.x*ns.y) or ns.z
 6
 >>> vars(ns)
 {'y': 3, 'x': 2, 'z': 6}
 >>> import sys
 >>> w=sys.stdout.write
 >>> ns(x=0) or w(str(ns.x)) or ns(x=' new!') or w(ns.x+'\n')
 0 new!

 ... just to be perverse using expressions ;-)

>It seems a bit perverse that setattr is allowed in lambda expressions
>but assignment is not; that you can call setdefault to update a
>dictionary, but not simply set the dictionary's elements; that you can
>do sys.stdout.write but not print; that you can call a function which
>asserts but not call assert.
>
>If lambda accepted statements as well as expressions - or if a
>statement could be used as an expression, as in C - then these warts
>would not arise.
There are long threads in the past discussing how to deal with indenting though.
I thought it could be done, but it was pretty unusual not to have a clean way
of using a preceding def instead and referring to it.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Sat Jun 21 06:02:10 2003
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 03:02:10 -0700
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0306210202.13e853bd@posting.google.com>

> XML for ? is like CSV for a RDBMS

I couldn't resist mentioning YAML - a human-readable data
serialisation grammar. It's implemented in Python, and other
languages. It is something that I am only just getting into myself,
but so far I can see quite a few possibilities for it. I think that
where it scores big is that it allows humans to write structured data
to a file, which YAML can then process. YAML supports lists, arrays,
and a few other things.

Here's an example I found at http://www.yaml.org/spec/15may2001.html:

buyer    : %
    address     : %
       city       : Royal Oak
       line one   : 458 Wittigen's Way
       line two   : Suite #292
       postal     : 48046
       state      : MI
    family name : Dumars
    given name  : Chris
date     : 12-JAN-2001
comments :
    Mr. Dumars is frequently gone in the morning
    so it is best advised to try things in late
    afternoon. \nIf Joe isn't around, try his house\
    keeper, Nancy Billsmer @ (734) 338-4338.\n
delivery : %
    method : UZS Express Overnight
    price  : 45.50
invoice : 00034843
product : @
    %
        desc      : Grade A, Leather Hide Basketball
        id        : BL394D
        price     : 450.00
        quantity  : 4
    %
        desc      : Super Hoop (tm)
        id        : BL4438H
        price     : 2,392.00
        quantity  : 1
tax      : 0.00
total    : 4237.50



From pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl  Sun Jun 29 17:56:47 2003
From: pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl (Artur M. Piwko)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:56:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: import/from import question
Message-ID: <slrnbfuo4v.fs2.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>

Is there a way to detect if module was imported by 'from <mod> import <sth>'
or by 'import <mod>'?

Artur

-- 
Before the Goat of Mendes... we all must take our turn   |  Artur M. Piwko
Into the magic circle... where still the fire burns      |  mailto:s/_/./
We're spinning round and round... until one takes a fall | -- Mercyful Fate
The fallen one will not return, the fallen one must burn | "Witches' Dance"



From paul at boddie.net  Tue Jun 24 04:52:27 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 01:52:27 -0700
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056387220.30017.python-list@python.org> <7ECdndDM99Lkq2qjXTWcqw@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0306240052.78684551@posting.google.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at amk.ca> wrote in message news:<7ECdndDM99Lkq2qjXTWcqw at speakeasy.net>...
> 
> I've come to the conclusion that the initial concern for supporting APIs
> such as SAX and DOM in Python was a mistake; many bugs stem from trying to
> support interfaces that don't map to Python very well.  Instead we should 
> have made nice Pythonic interfaces such as effbot's ElementTree which are
> simpler to implement and to use, and ignore the W3C's APIs.

The thing is that Python and its developers quite often have to live
(and work) alongside other technologies; having a set of common APIs
is important if you consider them in that context. The other issue is
that the Python community isn't always supreme at standardising
things, working through the edge cases, and so on, and one might well
argue that the DOM specification has at least had a lot of attention
on most areas to be considered generally robust. I haven't seriously
looked at most of the "Pythonic" APIs, but I would be quite concerned
about interoperability, how comprehensive they are (with respect to
representing all XML details), and what the options are for increasing
performance without pervasive source code changes.

> SAX isn't too bad in this respect[1] -- pull APIs look pretty similar,
> differing only in interface and method names -- but the DOM has been a mess,
> spawning several implementations all of which are fairly complex.

I like the work that Andrew Clover did with regard to testing the
different DOM implementations for Python:

  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/xml-sig/2003-June/009560.html

I'll agree that it's probably quite demanding to write a DOM
implementation and support various levels of compliance. However, I'd
argue that as a user of such implementations, one does gain from the
broad compatibility between implementations - certainly, I've used
cDomlette and minidom interchangeably for some time with the only
major issue being a library "collision" around Expat and mod_python
with cDomlette.

> [1] SAX is a _de facto_ API, not a W3C one; perhaps that explains why it's
>     not too bad.

Certainly, the W3C DOM had dubious beginnings, but I don't personally
buy into the widespread arguments that it is found seriously lacking
in a number of supposedly key criteria. Or at least, I don't really
see many of the supposedly better alternatives as being noticeably
better, especially when DOM as a "platform" supports some very useful
technologies indeed.

Paul



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun  4 13:13:05 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 13:13:05 -0400
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
References: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3EDE28A1.A8ABE331@engcorp.com>

"Aur?lien G?ron" wrote:
> 
> ** Why isn't Python shipped with wxPython instead of Tk ? **

Although I pretty much agree with everything you said in your post, 
I just want to make two small points:

1. Tkinter is pretty much considered standard, so removing it would
be a bit of problem for many people.

2. wxPython is a *really* easy download and install, so there's relatively
little advantage in making it a standard part of the distribution.  It's
also not really small, so bloating the standard distribution still further
to include it (assuming Tkinter is not actually removed first) would be
bad.

-Peter



From david.abrahams at rcn.com  Sun Jun 29 19:13:09 2003
From: david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams)
Date: 29 Jun 2003 16:13:09 -0700
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <c9%Ha.200753$g92.4077297@news2.tin.it> <uy8zy4vzs.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <pNfIa.206219$g92.4232233@news2.tin.it> <ea97dfd9.0306290730.137c6837@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ea97dfd9.0306291513.65a2555c@posting.google.com>

david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams) wrote in message news:<ea97dfd9.0306290730.137c6837 at posting.google.com>...

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> 
> > In Python one generally identifies (just as informally) a container as
> > "an object which has a length" (using "length", perhaps a suboptimal
> > choice of wording, to mean "number of items currently contained") and
> > simultaneously express both 'c is a container' and 
> > 'that container is not empty' by
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry, I missed that.

> >
> >     assert len(c)
> 
> That understanding of "containerness" is, AFAICT, not universally held
> among Pythonistas by any means.  

I still stand by the above.

> Good thing too, probably: it looks
> like there is no such thing as an empty container:
> 
>      >>> assert len([])
>      Traceback ...

But that example was obviously just wrong.

-Ddave



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jun 25 13:10:05 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 17:10:05 GMT
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com> <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com> <bdb22c$psllg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EF933AA.C16ADFE5@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <bdcl1d$v43$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:31:22 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

>"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" wrote:
>
>> Erik Max Francis wrote:
>>
>> > (Mac gets even fewer points,
>> > since it chose to do deliberately do smoething even more different.)
>> 
>> That's debatable. At least the Mac still only uses *one*
>> character for each end-of-line...
>
>At the time the Mac was created, line endings of LF (Unix) and CR LF
>(CP/M, DOS) were common.  The only reason you'd choose CR is to do
>something different.  Their implementation of data forks vs. resource
>forks are another example of Apple doing something different simply for
>its own sake, which introduce massive interplatform compatibility
>problems.
I'm not sure it's entirely fair to jump to the conclusion that Apple chose CR
as line end only to be different.

My interpretation is that going from CRLF to a single character signalled
a switch from hardware-control semantics to symbolic semantics. I.e., CR and LF
originally literally referred to printing hardware with a physical "carriage" like
a typewriter or -- keeping paper handling stationary -- a moving print head,
and line feeding actually fed paper a line at a time. They're still used when
dealing with devices and emulated/simulated devices, of course.

The CR is what you get when you hit the Enter key, so Apple did the most direct thing
in using that key code as an EOL symbol. Perhaps they thought that was "cleaner" and
that they would lead the way to a cleaner standard way of doing things when they
achieved market dominance ;-)

Of course, LF has (IMO) a better semantic relationship to the EOL meaning, so translating
the Enter key to LF seems better than CR. Either way, ISTM yet another symptom of what happens
when the hardware-oriented evolves towards the abstract. You wind up with vestigial hardware
semantics in abstract contexts where they don't really belong, e.g., as in one of my pet peeves:
drive letters in file paths.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From phd at phd.pp.ru  Mon Jun 30 08:52:06 2003
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 16:52:06 +0400
Subject: ANN: pyUnRAR 0.1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1056976205.20180.clpa-moderators@python.org>
References: <mailman.1056976205.20180.clpa-moderators@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030630125206.GA2359@phd.pp.ru>

Hello!

On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 04:38:29AM -0700, Jimmy Retzlaff wrote:
> pyUnRAR requires Microsoft Windows, Python 2.2 or higher, and ctypes
> 0.6.2.

   Can you instead (or in addition) to wrap http://www.unrarlib.org/ - it
is much more portable?

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.




From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 10 15:27:49 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 19:27:49 GMT
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bc5bfl$i2k$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

When you insist on using

    this.attribute

in your Java and C# code, and

   this->attribute

in your C++ code.


When you declare a private method/attribute in the above languages prefaced
by double underscore:

private int __myint;


And when you wish everyone elses code was the same...







From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jun 13 23:38:33 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 05:38:33 +0200
Subject: raw strings under windows
In-Reply-To: <DgwGa.47757$Io.4419696@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <DgwGa.47757$Io.4419696@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3EEA98B9.10101@ghaering.de>

Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
> Hi,
> When doing the following:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> path = r"c:\python23\"
> 
> I get a syntax error, unexpected EOL with singlequoted string.  It was my
> (mis?) understanding that raw strings did not process escaped characters?
> Of course
> path = "c:\\python23\\"
> 
> works just fine.

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?query=raw+string&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search

-- Gerhard




From a at b.c  Sat Jun  7 11:01:09 2003
From: a at b.c (sfb)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 15:01:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Is Python lightweight?
References: <8b336527.0306061439.72d23063@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054940353.6636.python-list@python.org> <8b336527.0306070647.7962aa74@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9393A32A18494abc@194.106.32.13>

kkennedy65 at yahoo.com (kk) wrote in
news:8b336527.0306070647.7962aa74 at posting.google.com: 

> Maybe I should re-format my question. What tool should I use to
> measure the memory usage?  On Windows XP, I have tried Performance
> Monitor, and it doesn't have anything obvious to me.  I'm sure I just
> don't know how to use it properly.  Is there another tool?  Is there
> an API call that could tell me memory usage at any given point,
> preferably by process?
> 

In windows XP, press CTRL-ALT-DELETE, go to Task Manager, then click on 
Processes. Each process is listed with its CPU and Memory usage.

Or you could try Process Explorer from SysInterals
( http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/procexp.shtml )

Find a process, then choose Process-> Properties -> Performance to see a 
lot more about it. (Possibly overkill here, but still interesting) 

- sfb.



From alexferri at email.it  Sun Jun  8 04:58:34 2003
From: alexferri at email.it (Alex)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 08:58:34 GMT
Subject: Newbie: Python instance VB?
Message-ID: <_UCEa.57819$pR3.1234896@news1.tin.it>

Hi All,
Is possible create an instance of a Visual Basic (or VC++) DLL in a Python
project?
I need to integrate older systems written in other languages.

Thanks
Alex - Italy





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jun  2 15:50:18 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 21:50:18 +0200
Subject: Python get's a mention on University Challenge
In-Reply-To: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

John Ochiltree wrote:
> Hi all, thought you may like to know that the UK TV programme 
> 'University Challenge' of 2nd June has just had 'The Python Programming 
> Language' as the answer to a question in a round about programming 
> languages (the other languages were Pascal and Eiffel).

What was the question?

--Irmen




From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun  6 16:44:07 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 20:44:07 GMT
Subject: Newbie in developping Webapplications needs tips.
References: <mailman.1054926013.1137.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <09u1evcqe24qd39rb06m8phkei9huvjok8@4ax.com>

On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:58:00 -0500, "Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE
Interlogix)" <Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com> wrote:

>Currently I try to to gather information about web development by reading books (Python Webprogramming, PHP and MySQL Web Development) searching on Google etc etc.. 
>The plan is to develop HTML pages for presenting data from a database, configure objects and execute python code from these pages.
>
>My aim is to use as much python as possible because of 1) the experience in that area and 2) the existing python application we would like to support with HTML.
>I'm familair with java's JSP technology, so PSP could be a good choice.
>However, when I read about PHP, this looks also very usefull. But, it is not python....
>
>So my question is, what advise can the guru's give me here?
>What is a good start.

The URL Ian gave is great. I myself used Java for some time before
'settling' on PHP and finding it very useful in web applications.

I am still trying to switch to Python for web development, but
have used it extensively in standard application development.

For my requirements, mod_python ended up being the only solution.
mod_python's native model is servlet-like and a PSP implementation
now exists in CVS (though I disagree with it). Additionally, some
platforms on top of mod_python, without requiring additional daemon,
can change pretty much everything. I find the best there is Spyce.

http://www.modpython.org
http://spyce.sf.net

I think Spyce with mod_python or mod_python's PSP need some work.
I may end up doing the work I think they need when I have time.

Draco and Webware PSP get honorable mentions, but PHP is still
extremely competitive with all of these. Honestly, only the Python
language itself keeps me investigating a PHP alternative, and I
don't even really "like" PHP. *shrug*

-AB



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Jun  3 18:01:47 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 18:01:47 -0400
Subject: How to replace the metaclasses of all the classes imported
References: <ba1e306f.0306030627.4e88996a@posting.google.com>
 <MnR3+kKkXoyC092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <LrR3+kKkXo6W092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine) wrote previously:
|I know of import_with_metaclass at
|http://gnosis.cx/download/gnosis/magic/__init__.py but it doesn't help
|Say, I have a module A which imports module B with an ordinary
|"import" statement. With import_with_metaclass I can replace the
|metaclasses of all the classes in module A, but not those from B.

I'm sure I could work this out with a little trial-and-error.  You can
check which of the names in A are modules, and recurse from there.  I'd
want to play with it, and run a few test cases to make sure I got the
details right (for example, what about import diamonds and circular
imports).

I cannot promise I'll add this to gnosis.magic on any particular time
schedule.  But if you work out the details yourself, I'd love it if you
would contribute your code for inclusion in the public domain Gnosis
Utilities.  Since I made a start at including some useful metaclass
functions there, it would make sense to add more in the same place, IMO.
Actually, the same goes for anyone, not just Austine.

Yours, David...

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.





From aeze616 at cse.unsw.EDU.AU  Mon Jun 16 08:39:23 2003
From: aeze616 at cse.unsw.EDU.AU (Anson Ehon Zeall)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:39:23 +1000 (EST)
Subject: using QCanvas
In-Reply-To: <200306161247.20877.phil@riverbankcomputing.co.uk>
References: <cb7ba330.0306160325.407f4b9e@posting.google.com>
 <200306161247.20877.phil@riverbankcomputing.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0306162238570.13580@spoons09.orchestra.cse.unsw.EDU.AU>

Dear phil.

    Where is teh canvas.py example?? It's not in the documentation.

zeallous

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Phil Thompson wrote:

> On Monday 16 June 2003 12:25 pm, anson wrote:
> > Dear python techs,
> >
> >
> >      I've embedded a QCanvasText into my QCanvas. but for some reason
> > the QCanvasText doesn't show up. I heard somehow we have to use the
> > QCanvasView. How do you use it?
>
> Check out the canvas.py example included in PyQt and the Qt documentation at
> http://doc.trolltech.com/3.1/canvas.html
>
> Phil
>




From chezdique at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 24 06:20:14 2003
From: chezdique at yahoo.com (dique)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 03:20:14 -0700
Subject: Persist Python objects to a MySQL database?
References: <PuNJa.4935$Hw.4242219@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <c2c98495.0306240220.1c413871@posting.google.com>

How about SQLObject?
http://sqlobject.org/

"Robert Oschler" <no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid> wrote in message news:<PuNJa.4935$Hw.4242219 at news2.news.adelphia.net>...
> I did a Google search (+persist +python +MySQL) and saw a few references to
> persisting a Python object (class instance) to a MySQL database, but nothing
> extensive.  Is there anything new that does this, hopefully in a relatively
> transparent manner?
> 
> thx



From gargo at looksmart.com  Fri Jun 13 17:54:05 2003
From: gargo at looksmart.com (Guy Argo)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 14:54:05 -0700
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9ec3cd9d.0306131354.226d635f@posting.google.com>

Pah, amateurs! Come talk to me when /usr/bin/ipython is your login shell. :)



From news at exultants.org  Wed Jun 18 05:49:09 2003
From: news at exultants.org (Van Gale)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:49:09 GMT
Subject: reinventing the web server
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055899117.6818.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1055899117.6818.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EF03531.1090600@exultants.org>

Simon Wittber (Maptek) wrote:
> Hello Python People.
> 
> Is it worthwhile reinventing my own Python web server, the way I want
> it? Or is it a waste of time... and should I be sticking to existing
> technologies?

There are other alternatives you can check.

The old and venerable Medusa includes a pretty minimal web server that's 
used in many production systems (including some that aren't Zope based). 
  See http://www.amk.ca/python/code/medusa.html

I guess if you think Twisted is heavyweight you won't like Zope :/  In 
all seriousness though, twisted

As for web server interfaces, mod_python can be a bit heavy, but it is 
pretty well supported with an active mailing list and works on both 
Apache 1 and 2.  Also, you don't have to use the higher level (heavy) 
stuff.  You can just use it as a (faster) cgi interface.  It's not great 
for developing an app though... having to restart Apache after each edit 
just isn't right :)

There are other server interfaces:

PyWX interfaces with AOLServer.

There's also mod_snake for Apache 1.  It's no longer maintained so there 
won't be a version for Apache 2 unless someone else takes over.  It took 
a "minimalist" design approach (i.e. no publishers or higher level 
session stuff... just request headers).  The current version seems 
pretty stable.

Also check out mod_scgi for Apache 1 
(http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/scgi/)

Finally, it's possible of course to use mod_fastcgi.

My recommendation however, is to look at the higher level web frameworks 
  instead and decide if one fits your needs.  Many of them work with 
several of the web interfaces, and include pretty easy instructions for 
configuring using each interface.

For instance, Quixote <http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/> 
works with cgi, mod_fastcgi, mod_scgi, mod_python, and medusa. Someone 
even played around and made a Twisted interface.

Albatross <http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/> works 
with at least cgi and mod_python.

pso <http://www.scriptfoundry.com/modules/pso/> works with mod_python, 
mod_snake, mod_fastcgi, and cgi.

There are many more of course.  A better list can be found in the Python 
Wiki <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming>

Also check out the Web Framework Shootout 
<http://colorstudy.com/docs/shootout.html>

Van




From jay at jaydorsey.com  Thu Jun  5 07:54:26 2003
From: jay at jaydorsey.com (Jay Dorsey)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:54:26 -0400
Subject: Python & CGI. HELP please...
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.06.05.09.57.28.334261@yahoo.com>
References: <pan.2003.06.05.09.57.28.334261@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200306050754.27087.jay@jaydorsey.com>

On Thursday 05 June 2003 05:57, Enrico Morelli wrote:

Have you tried opening the file up before you write the headers, so you can 
obtain the length, then specifying a "Content-length: %d" % len(l) in the 
headers?

Jay

> I'm trying to write a script to be able to download/upload files
> through web pages.
> The upload script works fine but the download no.
> When I download a file (pdf for example) using this script, I'm unable
> to open it in local using acroread because at the end of the document I
> found some html rows :-||
> These rows are some html code inside of the script that I use to
> display errors.
>
> Follow the method that I use to download files:
>
> def download(self, fullname, file):
>                 print "Content-Type: application/download"
>                 print "Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=%s\n" %
> file try:
>                         f=open(fullname, "rb")
>                         l=f.read()
>                         sys.stdout.write(l)
>                         f.close()
>                         sys.exit()
>                 except:
>                         msg="An error occurred during file transfer."
>                         Display(msg, "")
>                         sys.exit()

-- 
Jay Dorsey
jay at jay dorsey dot com





From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Tue Jun 17 15:08:26 2003
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:08:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bcnova$ma5$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> pisze:

> Python cannot be killed.
>
> Python cannot be killed.  It cannot be bought out and discontinued.
> If you build into your business, you can keep it forever.  And you can
> join with others to improve it.

More than that - unlike Kerberos, Python can not be taken by any
particular company and become its "flagship", while being screwed.

Software Craftsmen, please, consider this fact when choosing a license
for your product - only GNU GPL guarantees that your code will not be
"taken away" by any company.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
Registered Linux User #-1
http://www.zgoda.biz/ JID:zgoda at chrome.pl http://zgoda.jogger.pl/



From listbox at cybereal.org  Sun Jun 15 23:55:41 2003
From: listbox at cybereal.org (Zac Jensen)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:55:41 -0600
Subject: long-term release schedule?
In-Reply-To: <3EED3DEE.D545725@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.1055722646.5049.python-list@python.org>
 <3EED3DEE.D545725@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <200306152155.41700.listbox@cybereal.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sunday 15 June 2003 09:47 pm, Peter Hansen wrote:
> "Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)" wrote:
> > > From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com]
> > >
> > > emf wrote:
> > > > As far as the notion of Python becoming unsupported, uh...
> > >
> > > I think you
> > >
> > > > would have to have a nuclear war.
> > >
> > > And how would that prevent Python from continuing to be supported?
> >
> > He's assuming that everyone would die in such a war. He's forgetting
> > that the vault dwellers, ghouls, super mutants and deathclaws will still
> > be around ...
>
> Damn _right_ we will!  You can't keep us deathclaws(*) down!
>
> -Peter
>
> (*) What in god's name is a deathclaw?

It's a bearclaw from McDonald's

- -Zac
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE+7T+9V3L7YsSif1URAlhbAKCXQehINEaC8IrT+YFJArJMm7nlJgCeLiQz
wlnCIgLRH0o0tu8v4KWaA0M=
=zOPo
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sun Jun  8 14:28:11 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 14:28:11 -0400
Subject: program path
In-Reply-To: <3EE37C02.3E43BBB@engcorp.com>
References: <fyvEa.17336$pK2.23786@news.indigo.ie>		<3EE28ABC.7D6DB511@engcorp.com>		<D0wEa.17343$pK2.23880@news.indigo.ie>		<3EE2AD6E.933C6ED7@engcorp.com>		<mailman.1055048954.23011.python-list@python.org>		<3EE36B46.343D8774@engcorp.com> <mailman.1055092216.26497.python-list@python.org> <3EE37C02.3E43BBB@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3EE3803B.4080104@rogers.com>

Shows up with the full path on my Win2K box:

P:\OpenGLContext\tests>sysargv
['P:\\sysargv.py']

P:\OpenGLContext\tests>type p:\sysargv.py
import sys
print sys.argv

Where p:\ is on the path.

HTH,
Mike

Peter Hansen wrote:
...

>Thanks Gerhard, but could you please try running it via
>a directory available only via PATH?
>
>Explicitly specifying the directory should always lead
>to sys.argv[0] containing the "as invoked" name, but we're
>not sure what would happen if it's found via the PATH.
>
>-Peter
>  
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From ian at emit.demon.co.ukx  Tue Jun 17 03:39:23 2003
From: ian at emit.demon.co.ukx (Ian McConnell)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:39:23 +0100
Subject: popen2.Popen3 on Windows
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <m1tpevcasprfdirat1h3mg1go5atq4vsst@4ax.com>
 <3eecfae8$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
 <v1qrev8vokng7f6bhi6dudphbpkuvjoe80@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1055779769.31272.python-list@python.org>
 <3EEDFE6D.4BE473A5@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <87he6pgnkk.fsf@emit.demon.co.uk>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Justin Johnson wrote:
>> 
>> I need a way to run an external command, grab its output (stdout,stderr)
>> and get a return status for the command.  It seems like popen2.Popen3
>> (Note the upper case "P") is the way to do this, but it only works on
>> unix.  Is there a way to get this info on Windows?
>
> You might get more or better replies if you create your posting as
> a new one, rather than replying to an existing one and changing the
> subject.  Many news and mail readers will do "threading" which means
> your article will show up as part of the discussion to which you 
> replied, and many people will have killed that thread (and thus
> never see your question) by now.

Have a look at the process package on
     http://starship.python.net/~tmick/



process.py is a (rather large) Python module to make process control easier
and more consistent on Windows and Linux. The current mechanisms (os.popen*,
os.system, os.exec*, os.spawn*) all have limitations.

A quick list of some reasons to use process.py:
      
    * You don't have to handle quoting the arguments of your command line.
      You can pass in a command string or an argv.

    * You can specify the current working directory (cwd) and the
      environment (env) for the started process. 

    * On Windows you can spawn a process without a console window opening.

    * You can wait for process termination or kill the running process
      without having to worry about weird platform issues. (Killing on
      Windows should first give the process a chance to shutdown cleanly.
      Killing on Linux will not work from a different thread than the
      process that created it.) 

    * ProcessProxy allows you to interact in a pseudo-event-based way with
      the spawned process. I.e., you can pass in file-like object for any of
      stdin, stdout, or stderr to handle interaction with the process. 



-- 
 "Thinks: I can't think of a thinks. End of thinks routine": Blue Bottle

** Aunty Spam says: Remove the trailing x from the To: field to reply **



From thomas.nuecker at web.de  Tue Jun 24 04:10:47 2003
From: thomas.nuecker at web.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Thomas_N=FCcker?=)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 01:10:47 -0700
Subject: Embedded Python and Tkinter / win32gui
Message-ID: <4b66f6d2.0306240010.5dac2064@posting.google.com>

Hello!

I am using the python dll within a visual-c++ project. In the project
i am also handling python scripts. Since i want to use some
message-boxes i want to have the opportunity to import modules in the
script.

Now there is the question: 
How do i have to configure / compile the python-dll so i can use the
tkinter-module or the win32gui module? Is this only a problem of where
the modules are storred, or has the compilation of the python-dll
specially to be configured?

Thank you for your answer,

Thomas N?cker



From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Fri Jun  6 14:58:00 2003
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix))
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:58:00 -0500
Subject: Newbie in developping Webapplications needs tips.
Message-ID: <55939F05720D954E9602518B77F6127F020EC129@FTWMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Currently I try to to gather information about web development by reading books (Python Webprogramming, PHP and MySQL Web Development) searching on Google etc etc.. 
The plan is to develop HTML pages for presenting data from a database, configure objects and execute python code from these pages.

My aim is to use as much python as possible because of 1) the experience in that area and 2) the existing python application we would like to support with HTML.
I'm familair with java's JSP technology, so PSP could be a good choice.
However, when I read about PHP, this looks also very usefull. But, it is not python....

So my question is, what advise can the guru's give me here?
What is a good start.

Any advise, tips, references to articles would be appriciated.

Thanks,
Vincent




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Jun 11 18:10:02 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:10:02 -0400
Subject: Looking for the greatest negative float value
In-Reply-To: <3EE7A1EC.6D94A440@alcyone.com>
References: <bc7lvb$gm3$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr> <bc82gc$naf$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1055364561.4403.python-list@python.org> <3EE7A1EC.6D94A440@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3EE7A8BA.5040504@rogers.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

>"Mike C. Fletcher" wrote:
>  
>
>>Uh, that's a really-really small number that's vanishingly larger than
>>0.0, negative exponents make fractions, not large negative numbers...
>>    
>>
>
>Well, the original poster _did_ ask for the "greatest negative float
>value."  That would be -epsilon.
>  
>
Obviously I just do too much 3-D work, somehow when I see "greatest" I 
interpret it as "largest magnitude" (as in a vector), rather than 
"compares as > all others".  In my defense ;) , the original poster was 
giving the example of:

    -sys.maxint-1

as the analog of the number they were seeking in integers, instead of -1 
:) .

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From rapto at arrakis.es  Thu Jun 19 07:29:12 2003
From: rapto at arrakis.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marcos_S=E1nchez_Provencio?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:29:12 +0200
Subject: mxODBC, DriverConnect() but not on default DB?
In-Reply-To: <9ee55987.0306171712.18afca69@posting.google.com>
References: <9ee55987.0306171712.18afca69@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF19E88.4060906@arrakis.es>

yvan escribi?:
> Here is my set up:
> The MSSQL server is sets permission for the user USER with a default
> access to the db DEFAULT_DB.
> I have another db OTHER_DB. And USER has full rights on everything.
>  
> self.db = DB.Connect("Test", USER, PW)
> ---> Connects to the correct DB, but i don't want to have to define
> the DSN file, so i want to use DriverConnect
> 
> self.db = DB.DriverConnect('DRIVER={SQL
> Server};SERVER=server;DB_NAME=OTHER_DB;UID=USER;PWD=PW;')
> ---> Connects, but to DEFAULT_DB!
>  
> Shouldn't DB_NAME=OTHER_DB override the default?
> How do i use DriverConnect() to connect on a DB which is not the
> default one?
> 
> Thanks for any help,
>  
> -Yvan

From
http://www.connectionstrings.com/

Standard Security:
"Driver={SQL Server};Server=Aron1;Database=pubs;Uid=sa;Pwd=asdasd;"




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Thu Jun  5 20:59:12 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:59:12 -0400
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1054718112.3943.python-list@python.org> <bbl189$fs9$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <20030605080122580-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbnpd4$3cn$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <9HRDa.4706$IR1.570080@news20.bellglobal.com>

# version that is something like what you could do now
def foo():
       ...do stuff...
foo = compose(staticmethod,
                           synchronized,
                           lambda f: contract(f, pre, post))(foo)


# version with sugar
def foo() as static,
                     synchronized,
                     contract(pre,post):
        ...do stuff...

# different version with sugar
def foo() is static,
                   synchronized,
                   contract(pre,post):
        ...do stuff...

# version that started the discussion
def foo()[staticmethod,
               synchronize,
               contract(pre,post)]:
        ...do stuff...

# still other sugar
def foo() like static,
                      synchronized,
                      contract(pre,post):
        ...do stuff...



# teenage girl version ... <wink>
def SheWasLikeWhateverAndIWas() like OMyGod:
        ...do stuff...





From pcurran at intraspect.com  Tue Jun 24 13:02:20 2003
From: pcurran at intraspect.com (Peter Curran)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 10:02:20 -0700
Subject: Mapi Attachment method WriteToFile throws exception ...
References: <bf49679f.0306231512.57ad4475@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bf49679f.0306240902.279dca73@posting.google.com>

Answering my own thread here in case someone else is interested. For
some reason CDO doesn't support what I was trying to do through MAPI,
or there's a bug or something, so I ended up using the Outlook object
model instead of the MAPI one.

To find the documentation of the object model, search for vbaol*.chm
on your disk - it'll probably show up under the office directory.  In
case your file name is different, you might just search your office
dir for *.chm.  The object model (javadoc-esque) makes this a million
times easier.  The python code is just slightly different - here's the
(working) result.

"""
file - getvwstofile.py
opens a folder in an exchange inbox, iterates over its contents, saves
attachments on messages to disk
"""
from win32com.client.dynamic import Dispatch

s = Dispatch("Outlook.Application")
space = s.GetNameSpace("MAPI")
inbox = space.GetDefaultFolder(6)
vw = inbox.Folders[9] #open the folder i want

#now iterate over the messages
for x in range(1, len(vw.Items) + 1):
    sub = vw.Items[x].Subject
    sub = sub.encode('ascii', 'strict')
    bContinue = 0
    z = sub.find("Alert, ")
    #if the subject the string i want in the subj, continue
    if z != -1:
        item = vw.Items[x]
        attaches = item.Attachments
        if attaches:
            for i in range(1, len(attaches) + 1):
                atitem = attaches[i]
                if(atitem):
                    atitem.SaveAsFile("c:\\vwmsgs\\%d.html" % (x))
s = None






pcurran at intraspect.com (Peter Curran) wrote in message news:<bf49679f.0306231512.57ad4475 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello - 
> 
> I'm getting an exception when I try to save an email attachment
> gathered from an Exchange server using Mapi and python com utils.
> 
> The COM exception I'm getting back in indecipherable (to me) and I'm
> hoping that someone in this group can help me dereference the error so
> that I can move on.  My code is included below - it's ugly but it
> works well other than where I try to save the attachment - maybe
> someone can use it.
> 
> Is there a place where I can look up CDO exceptions?  Has anyone else
> resolved this problem?
> 
> The exception:
> 
>   File "<COMObject <unknown>>", line 2, in WriteToFile
>   File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py",
> line 237, in _ApplyTypes_
>     result = apply(self._oleobj_.InvokeTypes, (dispid, LCID, wFlags,
> retType, argTypes) + args)
> com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (17389, 'Collaboration
> Data Objects', ' [Collaboration Data Objects - [E_FAIL(80004005)]]',
> None, 0, -2147467259), None)
> 
> 
> The code:
> 
> """
> file - getvwstofile.py
> opens a folder in an exchange inbox, iterates over its contents, saves
> attachments on messages to disk
> """
> import sys
> 
> s = Dispatch("Mapi.Session")
> s.Logon()
> vw = s.Inbox.Folders[9] #open the folder i want
> 
> #now iterate over the messages
> for x in range(1, len(vw.Messages) + 1):
>     sub = vw.Messages[x].Subject
> 
>     bContinue = 0
>     z = sub.find("Alert, ")
>     #i only want messages with particular subjects
>     if z != -1:
>         item = vw.Messages[x]
>         attaches = item.Attachments
>         if attaches:
>             for i in range(1, len(attaches) + 1):
>                 atitem = attaches[i]
> 
>                 #here's the weirdness - got the attachment, but can't
> save it!
>                 #i've also tried atitem.WriteToFile("c:\vsmsgs\%s" %
> (atitem.Name))
>                 if(atitem):
>                     atitem.WriteToFile("c:\\vsmsgs\\%s" %
> (atitem.Name))
> s.Logoff()
> s = None



From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jun 26 19:34:56 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:34:56 +0200
Subject: Keys order in dictionaries
In-Reply-To: <20030626232616.GD12627@bobas.nowytarg.pl>
References: <20030626232616.GD12627@bobas.nowytarg.pl>
Message-ID: <3EFB8320.2030601@ghaering.de>

Brainwashed wrote:
> Is there any order in dictionaries that will never change ? [...]

If you need a dictionary with ordered keys, the keywords for Google are

	python ordered dictionary

where the first hit will point to this recipe: 
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/107747

-- Gerhard




From keating at acm.org  Mon Jun  2 18:15:24 2003
From: keating at acm.org (Paul Keating)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:15:24 +0100
Subject: Need pointer to cxx_extensions
References: <3ed79f5d$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com> <bb88hp$4f5$1@eol.dd.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <3edbcc60$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>

Great pointer, tx. The last release of PyCXX does at least compile with
Python 2.2.

"Anders Hammarquist" <iko at cd.chalmers.se> wrote in message
news:bb88hp$4f5$1 at eol.dd.chalmers.se...
>
> Googling for it reveals that it probably comes from PyCXX, which you can
> find at http://sourceforge.net/projects/cxx/ . The project appears to have





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Thu Jun 26 19:50:57 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 09:40:57 +0950
Subject: Keys order in dictionaries
References: <mailman.1056670245.3458.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbfn2sh.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:26:16 +0200, Brainwashed wrote:
> Is there any order in dictionaries that will never change ?

No.  The specification for the built-in dictionary type specifically
disclaims any preservation of order, to allow the implementation of any
arbitrary dictionary algorithm, with different, unpredictable (to the
user) storage and retrieval orders.

You can get ordered dictionaries (see the Python cookbook article
already pointed to), but not by directly using the built-in dictionary
type.

-- 
 \         "I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, which, |
  `\      when you looked at it in the right way, did not become still |
_o__)                             more complicated."  -- Paul Anderson |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From tony_evershed at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jun 19 04:54:17 2003
From: tony_evershed at yahoo.co.uk (Tony Evreshed)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:54:17 +0100
Subject: Login Dialog Problems
References: <bcptck$buk$1@batman.npl.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bcrtp0$95a$1@batman.npl.co.uk>

"Tony Evreshed" <tony_evershed at yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bcptck$buk$1 at batman.npl.co.uk...
> Using Python 2.2, on Windows NT 4.0...
>
> I have a Tkinter dialog for entering a username and password to login to a
> program...it looks somewhat like this:
...

whoops - never mind :)





From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Jun  9 22:12:16 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:12:16 +1200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055131997.12710.python-list@python.org>
References: <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org> <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055032157.24538.python-list@python.org> <l1el24hmex.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055088916.4391.python-list@python.org> <l1ptlofcz3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055131997.12710.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc3dg8$ef6r9$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Steven Taschuk wrote:
> This is a problem because, as Martin has pointed out, the current
> parser and grammar are LL(1);

You need to be careful when making statements like this about
the Python grammar. Python's parser generator is a strange
beast that allows regular expressions in its productions. It's
not immediately obvious what effect this has on the class of
languages it can parse.

It *might* be the case that there is an equivalent LL(1)
grammar for any grammar that pgen can handle, but I can't
think of a proof of this off the top of my head.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From v.wehren at home.nl  Tue Jun 24 15:42:16 2003
From: v.wehren at home.nl (vincent wehren)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:42:16 +0200
Subject: printing Unicode characters during telnet session
References: <bda6re$uts$1@news1.songnet.fi>
Message-ID: <bda910$2fm$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"Pekka Niiranen" <pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bda6re$uts$1 at news1.songnet.fi...
> Hi,
>
> I have a multiuser script, that I would like to convert to Python.
> The users open simultaneous telnet -sessions from win2000 to
> an unix machine and possibly edit unicode textfiles. Currently users
> use vi and more, but I would like to add unicode support to the script.
> I would not like to force them to open X-sessions in order to show
> Multilanguage characters.
>
> Should I create python shell or is there any other way ?
> Python's "print" does not seem to work for all characters :(

What do you mean? For which characters doesn't the print statement work?

Vincent Wehren
>
> Do not bother to point me to the existing FAQ and tutorials, because
> they do not provide solutions for this problem (searched whole day
> allready).
>
> -pekka-
>





From wweexxsseessssaa at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun 16 10:07:38 2003
From: wweexxsseessssaa at telusplanet.net (John Hall)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:07:38 GMT
Subject: Python articles
References: <mailman.1055704587.15481.python-list@python.org> <nrkpevsm7psg011fvqs0qjh6uj2jjbmjph@4ax.com> <mailman.1055714547.31030.python-list@python.org> <v46qevkl6muipcotqmd08aqr5gks9c035l@4ax.com> <283adf56.0306160416.4d52ad6b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5ojrevk7ejml2addadthmfk4r2m6c980c5@4ax.com>

On 16 Jun 2003 05:16:52 -0700, kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
wrote:

>> >> Your website is about 2 meters wide, but my monitor only about 300mm,
>> >> so reading it is rather inconvenient.
>> >> (IE V6 on Windows 2000 Pro)
>
>Looks great on Mozilla Firebird 0.6 under Win 2K Pro.

I smell a conspiracy against Microsoft - all you folks wanting IE to
follow standards.

-- 
John W Hall <wweexxsseessssaa at telusplanet.net>
Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
"Helping People Prosper in the Information Age"



From m at moshez.org  Wed Jun  4 12:19:02 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 16:19:02 -0000
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
In-Reply-To: <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no>
References: <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no>, <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <20030604161902.22977.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, "Thomas Weholt \( PRIVAT \)" <2002 at weholt.org> wrote:

> Just a warning; when you mention "threaded" and "webserver" in this group in
> the same sentence, you'll probably get several replies telling you that
> threaded webservers scale badly and that you should look at ( you guessed
> it) Twisted or Medusa.

This warning deserves a meta-warning: whenever you mention Twisted in this
group, a couple of Twisted developers will happily jump on board and
correct you :)

> Twisted are slowly getting a proper documentation together

"Slowly getting proper documentation"? Do you not consider a 250 page
book "proper documentation"? (That's just the HOWTOs and manpages.
The API documentation is not distributed in a paged format, but it
is so big that people have asked me to split it off from the twisted-doc
package to lower size demands.

For the things which Twisted has been able to do for a while, we have
pretty good documentation -- for example, the low-level protocol layer
and the low-level web layer are pretty well documented. The newer
stuff (like Woven) is starting to get documented. In fact, right now,
I believe the only serious documentation lack is woven.guard.

> It still seem a
> bit bloated and some of the code is labeled unstable, yet the the package
> seem to be marketed as complete and stable.

"Complete" is certainly not a term I would apply to Twisted. There are
a number of lacks -- one is a web client which is as flexible as urllib2
and asynchronous. However, for most people's needs, Twisted is complete
enough, and it is certainly more featureful than medusa.

> I keep seeing things like "It
> should really be re-written/re-factored " etc. in the twisted-mailing-list.

However, there are few changes of API. The Twisted team takes backwards
compatibility seriously, and most old code continues to work just fine.

> But all in all, as I said before, I think Twisted might be the new killer
> app if the development-team keeps the development progress they seem to have
> at the moment.

I believe Twisted is already a killer app for Python :)

-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From p-abel at t-online.de  Fri Jun  6 07:53:41 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 04:53:41 -0700
Subject: Including binary files in a .py file; advice needed
References: <3EDEB0A6.202@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0306060353.b151689@posting.google.com>

Gary Duncan <gmduncan at netspace.net.au> wrote in message news:<3EDEB0A6.202 at netspace.net.au>...
> Here's what I want to do; distribute a .py file (a GUI app) with
> an embedded (binary) .GIF file (a photo of me at 1 yo ;) rather than
> distribute both separately. For convenience, mainly.
> 
> 
> If in a Unix shell script, I'd uuencode the .GIF and include the 
> printable-ASCII file in it as a 'here' file. When executed the script
> would 'cat' it out to e.g. a /tmp file from the main body of the script, 
> then uudecode the /tmp file to revert to the original .GIF file.
> 
> I imagine in Python, one could place the uuencoded file (lines)
> as a triple-quoted string, then uudecode it the .py program.
> 
> Anything better ?
> 
> The Martellibot's PIAN is silent on this ;
>     fine book otherwise <0.9 wink>
> 
> - Gary

Suppose you deal with TKinter. There is small tool which
does exactly what you want, I guess.

imageEmbedder 1.01 utility img2pytk.py from 
http://www.3dartist.com/WP/python/pycode.htm#img2pytk

Regards
Peter



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jun 24 10:03:58 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:03:58 +0200
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056387220.30017.python-list@python.org> <7ECdndDM99Lkq2qjXTWcqw@speakeasy.net> <3EF83077.27409952@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bd9ls7$sk1$1@main.gmane.org>

Alan Kennedy wrote:

> Although pythonic APIs like elementtree are obviously an excellent
> solution for processing xml in python, what I would prefer to see is
> some form of interface API where you could make pythonic calls against
> a standard DOM, which then get turned into actual DOM standard
> method calls.

the elementtree API is really minimal; you can easily create an
elementtree-style binding for almost any hierarchial data structure
in a couple of hours.

I've done this for HDF5, Tkinter, low-overhead XML storage models
(allowing you to store in-memory trees in much less space than you
need to store them on disk), and applications specific data models
(using simple "schemas" to mutate elements into element subclasses,
so you can add arbitrary methods to your XML nodes, depending on
what they represent, but still serialize everything to XML with a
single generic operation).

> However, I can't see how this would work without a lot of data copying
> and inefficiency (thus piling time inefficiency on top of DOM time and
> memory inefficiencies).

You'll always pay a penalty when you need to convert from a non-
Python representation to a Python representation.  You can improve
things by only converting data when you need it, caching converted
data in the element objects, and even caching common data values
centrally (e.g. tags and attribute names), but if you want to access
a string of characters as a Python string, you need to store those
characters in a Python string at some point.

But except from that, I don't really see a problem here, neither in
theory nor in practice (see above)

Besides, nothing is more inefficient than the current crop of Python
DOMs.  Whatever you do, your program can only run faster.

</F>







From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun 19 15:58:18 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:58:18 -0400
Subject: Binary Header
References: <3ef1bf20$0$14311$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr> <3EF1C7AE.DC43ECF6@engcorp.com> <3ef2105e$0$14316$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>
Message-ID: <3EF215DA.C2097D9D@engcorp.com>

Benoit BESSE wrote:
> 
> Thanks a lots, yopu're right but you have to change
> class bf(object): to class bf:

Only if you're running on versions of Python prior to 2.2 or so... but
it doesn't look like it will do any harm to leave it out in this case.

-Peter



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Jun 17 22:31:30 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:31:30 GMT
Subject: [OT] (was: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?)
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com> <Xns939D3EC4C9004JanC@213.119.4.94> <20030617063032.612B.KLAPOTEC@nusurf.at> <Xns939DABD5AD4CJanC@213.119.4.94> <3EEF3F2B.6BA5BA72@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Xns939E2E07D8A6EJanC@213.119.4.94>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> schreef:

> One would assume it had to go faster than 3.5km/h to win such a race.

I was talking about cars with "explosion engines" (or how do you call that 
in correct English ;)

The first "automobile" ("self moving vehicle") that I know about was steam-
powered and designed by the Flemish scientist father Ferdinand Verbiest 
somewhere in the 1670s.
It was a rather small "toy" made for the Chinese Emperor (his employer).
He made steam ships too.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jun 25 19:07:15 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 26 Jun 2003 00:07:15 +0100
Subject: sets.filter?
References: <mailman.1056577245.15021.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87adc5vjrw.fsf@pobox.com>

Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> writes:

> would it be a good idea to add a .filter() method to a set object,
> which behaves like the builtin filter() but resulting in a set?
> I often see myself doing sets.Set(filter(f, someset))... Would this
> be a good addition to sets.Set?

import sets
def setfilter(f, s): return sets.Set(filter(f, s))


John



From eat at joes.com  Thu Jun 26 23:02:53 2003
From: eat at joes.com (Jason Kratz)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 03:02:53 GMT
Subject: stupid question about os.listdir
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1056681644.15717.python-list@python.org>
References: <MTNKa.2930$BM.1845254@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>	<gWNKa.2933$BM.1845313@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <mailman.1056681644.15717.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xtOKa.3285$BM.1852224@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

John Hunter wrote:
>>>>>>"Jason" == Jason Kratz <eat at joes.com> writes:
> 
> 
>     Jason> oops.  almost forgot.  if I run interactively in the python
>     Jason> interpreter it works as I expect.  its when doing 'python
>     Jason> script.py' from the command line that it only uses the
>     Jason> current directory.
> 
> Code, we need more code.  Please post an example, your platform, and
> python version.
> 
> The following works for me on linux w/ python2.2 called as 
>  > python scriptname.py
> 
> import os
> print os.listdir('/home/jdhunter')
> print os.listdir('/home/jdhunter/python')
> 
> and the same script (w/ different test paths) works on win32 w/ python
> 2.2.
> 
> JDH
> 

Hi John.   I posted code in another post.  python is 2.2 on Red Hat 9 
and 2.2 on windows.  same behavior in my script on both.




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 19 09:34:17 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:34:17 +0100
Subject: XML in python
References: <mailman.1056023019.23851.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EF1BBD9.21D6712@hotmail.com>

Ragu wrote:
>         I need to read a XML file content in Python.
>         Can anyone send me link/sample source?

This link should give you a good start in all things XML/python.

http://pyxml.sourceforge.net/topics/howto/xml-howto.html

Although it describes many of the features that are provided by the optional
PyXML package, it also describes many of the core XML features provided in the
python standard library, such as SAX2, DOM, etc.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Jun 28 06:01:24 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:01:24 +0200
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <bct498$mnjrt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <8da5fvsnidpjtblgfj4484spso2t9e6r95@4ax.com> <bcuqp3$nl9um$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <rt97fv80g2dguti1okoevk3kmvo6oh14vt@4ax.com> <bd17hu$niu1d$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <u7lcfv85lvutqg8tspgua4qc0454gsd2ie@4ax.com> <bd8gsc$pt2lr$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <hi5jfvof9sd32b55c8smgibpufhj0akcdo@4ax.com> <bdchsu$rn1p1$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <bdfhpg$dcl$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bdicl1$strb3$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <bdjkki$8dd$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <bdjp14$gp0$1@main.gmane.org>

Anton Vredegoor wrote:

> My personal observation is that *everything* I write in Python is a
> candidate for improvement in only a few months time because of my
> changing perspectives on the matter. For another perspective on the
> "lulu" code for example, try this :
>
>     trans = [string.lower(chr(i)) for i in range(256)]
>     for i in range(256):
>         if not trans[i] in string.letters: trans[i] = ' '
>     trans = ''.join(trans)
>
> I think this is both a line or so shorter than the original code and
> is probably also a bit clearer.

shorter, but not necessarily clearer (code that contains "".join is
never clear, in my experience, and the and/or trick doesn't make
things better):

trans = "".join([chr(x).isalpha() and chr(x).lower() or " " for x in range(256)])

but on the other hand, this gives you room for a two lines of
comments, explaining the intent of this piece of code.

you can trade performance for a source code character or two:

trans = "".join([(" ", chr(x).lower())[chr(x).isalpha()] for x in range(256)])

fwiw, I'd probably spell it all out, to make it all obvious:

# map letters to lowercase, and everything else to spaces
trans = range(256)
for i in trans:
    ch = chr(i)
    if ch.isalpha():
        trans[i] = ch.lower()
    else:
        trans[i] = " "
trans = string.join(trans, "")

but that's probably because I have a two-dimensional brain and a
working return key ;-)

</F>







From ebolonev at mail.ru  Mon Jun 30 01:43:14 2003
From: ebolonev at mail.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 16:43:14 +1100
Subject: console mp3->wav decoder for $indows or GUI one which supports console
References: <bdnvc9$ktc$1@news.rol.ru> <slrnbfv0vi.vc1.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <bdo1oo$lof$1@news.rol.ru> <slrnbfvctt.7ad.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <bdoinm$rq4$1@news.rol.ru>

> > I'm looking for..
>
> Looking for what?  Is it anything to do with comp.lang.python?
>
> >> We're seeking a descriptive message body.
> > What? I did't understand?
>
> You didn't ask anything, and didn't say anything.  So I'm wondering what
> your post was about.

You mean you can't see a subject line? What is your news reader?





From madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 27 07:52:18 2003
From: madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com (-)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 04:52:18 -0700
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com> <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com> <bdb22c$psllg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EF933AA.C16ADFE5@alcyone.com> <bdcl1d$v43$0@216.39.172.122> <fef0a228.0306261125.62b83713@posting.google.com> <gHMKa.328383$3n5.103835@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <fef0a228.0306270352.2a0b6ff8@posting.google.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<gHMKa.328383$3n5.103835 at news2.central.cox.net>...
> The "old printers" you are thinking of were probably KSR or ASR teletypes,
> although similar principles apply to older precursors such as the Creed 5B
> teletypewriter (which used a 5-bit code and a shift-locking system to extend
> the character set). 

Yes, I was thinking about teletypewriter, but couldn't remember the
name.

> EOF means end of file, usually. You seem to be a bit confused. Don't worry,
> me too.
> 

Not confused, just a typo :-(

> > way is actually the "correct" way, since
> > the "cursor" needs to move down one line and start at the beginning.
> 
> Ah, so Microsoft are "correct" because they choose a system that corresponds
> to a typewriting device you don't understand and are probably too young to
> remember. I see.
> 

I was told this by a person I assumed had knowledge of this (he had
used these devices). I should learn to do some research before making
such statements in public.

> > The Unix way is of cource more elegant, because you have a digital
> > computer and not some mechanical device. It doesn't matter if it's CR
> > or LF, because both characters only does half of the operation. Apple
> > should have chosen LF to preserve compatibillity.
> 
> For that matter it might just as well have been ESC or any other arbitrary
> character value - clearly a single character will suffice to delimit a line.
> I fail to see why Apple should have chosen LF to preserve compatibility with
> Unix if Microsoft are "correct". But then I'm just a crotchety old fartbot,
> and you're just a mad surfer.
> 

I said that using just one character is more elegant, and I think
Apple was right when they chose a single character. I have no real
knowledge of the different line-endings that were used at the time,
but I assume that LF (alone) was more frequently used than CR (alone)
or other characters. If I'm right, the Apple's choice was less
compatible.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jun 20 15:02:59 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 15:02:59 -0400
Subject: subclassing Thread and start
References: <uk86fv060t84jqno0mniak1ol6s3nn415c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bcvlp3$4ta$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <uk86fv060t84jqno0mniak1ol6s3nn415c at 4ax.com>,
Gon?alo Rodrigues  <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
>
>In order to simplify managing Thread's, I want my (derived) Thread's
>to do two things when they start running: return their thread id to
>the thread that started them, and set an attribute, e.g. self.id, to
>the Thread id.

Why not create a synthetic ID that you pass in to the Thread constructor
and set self.id in __init__()?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From bh at intevation.de  Wed Jun  4 12:27:21 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 18:27:21 +0200
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304F669E6@mail.hebmex.com> <mailman.1054740140.26044.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6q8yshu7ti.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

> To
> use lists there you have to extend list constructor syntax somehow, as I
> used in my original message:
> 
>     def foo(...) [pre=foo_pre, post=foo_post]:
>         <normal code here>

Not really. You could just do it like this:

    def foo(...) [pre(foo_pre), post(foo_post)]:
        <normal code here>

pre and post would be functions that take a function implementing the
pre or postcondition and return a function that when called with a
function object add the pre/post condition to the function. E.g. 

def pre(precondition):
    def install_pre_condition(function):
        def call_with_precondition(*args, **kw):
            precondition(*args, **kw)  # or however the precondition is called
            return function(*args, **kw)
        return call_with_precondition
    return install_pre_condition


   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From just at xs4all.nl  Wed Jun 18 12:08:12 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:08:12 +0200
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com> <mailman.1055919632.16586.python-list@python.org> <rfVHa.105923$pR3.2320136@news1.tin.it> <yfs65n39z72.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <just-0D60BB.18081218062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <yfs65n39z72.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk>,
 Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote:

> > In 2.3, you can express this as dict(foo=1, bar='sean') without a
> > need to define a function for the purpose.
> 
> Yuck! This seems like a really bad idea to me. This effectively makes it
> impossible to specify any options (such as initial size, default value etc.)
> at dict creation for dict subclasses or lookalikes or indeed future versions
> of dict itself! Not a good tradeoff for minor syntactic sugar, IMO! If this
> sugar is really needed, couldn't dict grow an appropriate classmethod instead
> (e.g dict.with(foo=1, bar='sean))?

Using keyword args to build a dict is useful *now*; if dicts were to 
ever grow extra constructions options, this could be still done with 
class methods...

Just



From dirk at gerrits.homeip.net  Tue Jun 17 10:17:40 2003
From: dirk at gerrits.homeip.net (Dirk Gerrits)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:17:40 +0200
Subject: The beauty of Python
In-Reply-To: <R5FHa.7104$Hb.128118@news4.e.nsc.no>
References: <yrEHa.7094$Hb.127911@news4.e.nsc.no> <UxEHa.72090$4_1.16936489@twister.nyc.rr.com> <R5FHa.7104$Hb.128118@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <bcn7tu$ko2$1@main.gmane.org>

Thomas Weholt ( PRIVAT ) wrote:
> Well, I was hoping for smaller examples, not too advanced things, more stuff
> you'll find in any programming language, stuff python has solved in a
> particulary elegant way.

Well what I found particularly elegant when I was first introduced to 
Python was it's easy iteration over sequences with the for statement. 
Compare this with a C++ for-loop loop over a range of STL iterators for 
example.

And of course I immediately loved its powerful, yet easy to use, data 
structures; especially the dictionary.

Perhaps you could work with that?

Regards,
Dirk Gerrits








From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Jun 22 10:09:42 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:09:42 +0200
Subject: Is o.__dict__ = {}  valid?
In-Reply-To: <vf9t36eqg0bs79@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vf9ohelotr7a4a@corp.supernews.com> <bd2oik$dae$1@panix1.panix.com> <vf9t36eqg0bs79@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20030622140942.GA3553@nl.linux.org>

Edward K. Ream wrote:
> > o.__dict__.clear()
> 
> I see.  Thanks very much, Aahz.  Python and c.l.p rule!

You may want to abbreviate this newsgroup with c.l.py. Otherwise,
you may mean pascal, perl, php, pl1, pop, postscript, prograph,
prolog OR python :)

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
136. If any one leave his house, run away, and then his wife go to
another house, if then he return, and wishes to take his wife back:
because he fled from his home and ran away, the wife of this runaway shall
not return to her husband.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From j.potrymajlo at wp.pl  Fri Jun 13 06:37:46 2003
From: j.potrymajlo at wp.pl (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Jacek_Potrymaj=B3o?=)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:37:46 +0200
Subject: python.dll
Message-ID: <bcc9hs$phf$1@sunflower.man.poznan.pl>

Hi,

My operating system is windows XP.
I'm not a python programmist but I have problem with this. I trye to install
simics simulator that didn't find python.dll
I installed Python2.2.2 and others python programs which allowed to work
under windows. I tryed to find this file in my system but I culdn't. Should
I download this file? I don't know. If somebody could helpo me, I will be
gratefull.

regards

Jacek




From just at xs4all.nl  Thu Jun  5 08:54:43 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:54:43 +0200
Subject: Singleton class: what is the purpose?
References: <mailman.1054811769.993.python-list@python.org> <just-EE6BC0.14300805062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <just-50031E.14544305062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <just-EE6BC0.14300805062003 at news1.news.xs4all.nl>,
 Just <just at xs4all.nl> wrote:

> It's not about enforcing it to be called only once, it's about 
> guaranteeing you always get the same instance. Here's a Singleton object 
> I recently wrote (it's simpler than Guido's -- I don't quite understand 
> why he's mucking with __dict__ and adds an init() method):
[ ... ]

Ha, I do now (learn something everyday!): you have to add a special init 
method if you're using __new__ like that: Python will call __init__ for 
you, *everytime* you call the class. (I find that a bit of a wart, I'd 
think that __new__ would be responsible for calling __init__.)

Just



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Jun 25 17:14:24 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:14:24 -0500
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623305347416@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Dave Kuhlman [mailto:dkuhlman at rexx.com] 
> Sent: Mi?rcoles, 25 de Junio de 2003 04:08 p.m.
> 
> -----------8<--------------
> import string
> ...
> htmlPage=["<html><header></header><body>"]
> htmlPage.append("more html")
> ....
> htmlPage.append("more html")
> ....
> htmlPage.append("<\body><\html>")
> # Use string.join() instead of ''.join() to add new-lines.
> htmlDoc= string.join(htmlPage, '\n')
> -----------8<--------------
> 
> Funny that string.join() supports the optional second parameter,
> while 'abc'.join() does not.
> 
>   - Dave
>

That's because string.join() is a module function, and in the
other case, ".join()" is a method of the string object "abc",
so in that case, "abc" is the "self" parameter.

And, in the case of string.join()'s optional second parameter,
it's default value is "", an empty string (if I'm not mistaken).

It's the same thing as "".join()

Salutations!

-gustavo

---

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From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Mon Jun  2 23:49:01 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 03:49:01 GMT
Subject: Python2.3 win32all WMI not working?
In-Reply-To: <9c9ad528.0306021515.6aca13b0@posting.google.com>
References: <9c9ad528.0306021515.6aca13b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <NUUCa.3254$7E.37550@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Murtaza Hakim wrote:

> Hi, 
>   I just downloaded Python2.3b1 and win32all.  When using the Windows
> Management Interface (WMI) from python2.2 everything works fine but
> when using python2.3 the following traceback is generated.  Has anyone
> seen this and what is the solution?
> 
> c:\nt>c:\Python23\python.exe
> Python 2.3b1 (#40, Apr 25 2003, 19:06:24) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
> on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
>>>>import win32com.client
>>>>c = win32com.client.GetObject('winmgmts:root/cimv2')
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py",
> line 73, in
> GetObject
>     return Moniker(Pathname, clsctx)
>   File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py",
> line 88, in
> Moniker
>     moniker, i, bindCtx = pythoncom.MkParseDisplayName(Pathname)
> pywintypes.com_error: (-2147221020, 'Invalid syntax', None, None)

Please see 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=745304&group_id=78018&atid=551954

Mark.




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jun  1 12:02:56 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Jun 2003 12:02:56 -0400
Subject: Request for feedback on my first Python program
References: <MPG.194096b51af188bb9896f0@news.hevanet.com> <slrnbdeevn.694.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net> <mailman.1054429562.11692.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbd83g$aiu$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1054429562.11692.python-list at python.org>,
Sean Legassick  <sean at datamage.net> wrote:
>In message <slrnbdeevn.694.andrew-usenet at athena.jcn.srcf.net>, Andrew 
>Walkingshaw <andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk> writes
>>
>>def isMeaningful(line):
>>    if line != "" and line[0] != "#":
>>        return True
>>    else:
>>        return False
>
>Yuck!
>
>def isMeaningful(line):
>     return line != "" and line[0] != "#";
>
>No offence intended, but I've seen this too often in real code not to 
>point out its redundancy here.

It is *NOT* redundant; it is making clear that True/False are the only
possible return values.  With your rewrite, reading and understanding
the code is necessary to clarify the intent.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"In many ways, it's a dull language, borrowing solid old concepts from
many other languages & styles:  boring syntax, unsurprising semantics,
few automatic coercions, etc etc.  But that's one of the things I like
about it."  --Tim Peters on Python, 16 Sep 93



From m at moshez.org  Tue Jun 17 10:52:33 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 14:52:33 -0000
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306170824360.1797@ns0.tbye.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306170824360.1797@ns0.tbye.com>, <qyzHa.100693$pR3.2190677@news1.tin.it>,
 <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com>
 <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl>
 <mailman.1055784208.22718.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.1055813915.12726.python-list@python.org> <20030617090918.9697.qmail@green.zadka.com>
Message-ID: <20030617145233.23924.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Tue, 17 Jun, Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:

> Can you clarify what you mean by "source code is always a liability"?

Well, I can *try*. I don't have any research, merely anecdotal evidence.
The anecdotal evidence suggests that I *enjoy* deleting code. A public example
is how I helped the deletion of the "poly" module from Python (technically,
it's in lib-old for backward compatibility reasons, however) -- and I
consider it to be one of the best contributions I made to core Python.

Now, in what ways was the "poly" module a liability? Well, the core Python
team had to maintain it. They had to make sure its performance was decent
and that it had no bugs and that the interface is decent. They didn't.
In 1.5.2, this module carried ugly 1.2-work-aroundy baggage and did polynomial
multiplication in a silly way. It obscured from people that there are
*good* polynomial modules for Python (in Numeric, IIRC).

Now, having the *functionality* of polynomials is an asset. Having *source
code* for supporting polynomials was a liability -- it sucked the time
and energies of Python developers.

This is why "YAGNI" is such a powerful principle -- because source code
without functionality is sheer liability. This is why "do the simplest
thing" is powerful -- because less source code for the same functionality
is better. Neither of those would be true if source code was not a liability.
I'm not sure if you think this is the trivial sense -- if you think this
*is* trivial, you have some programming maturity, so good! :)

-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jun 24 09:37:58 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:37:58 +0200
Subject: Embedded Python and Tkinter / win32gui
References: <4b66f6d2.0306240010.5dac2064@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bd9kbc$kfi$2@main.gmane.org>

Thomas N?cker wrote:

> I am using the python dll within a visual-c++ project. In the project
> i am also handling python scripts. Since i want to use some
> message-boxes i want to have the opportunity to import modules in the
> script.
>
> Now there is the question:
> How do i have to configure / compile the python-dll so i can use the
> tkinter-module or the win32gui module? Is this only a problem of where
> the modules are storred

just make sure that Python can find them, for example by calling
Py_SetPythonHome with the installation "root" directory (put the
files in <root>/Lib and <root>/DLLs etc, just like the standard
Python install does).

alternatively, you can manipulate the PYTHONHOME or PYTHONPATH
environment variables before initializing the Python interpreter.

(if you need more alternatives, check the Python source code)

> or has the compilation of the python-dll specially to be
> configured?

hopefully not.

</F>







From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun 11 21:08:56 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:08:56 -0600
Subject: feature request: mul
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0306111301.3faf0f91@posting.google.com>; from mis6@pitt.edu on Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 02:01:15PM -0700
References: <2259b0e2.0306110833.24b998cd@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055356409.24319.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0306111301.3faf0f91@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030611190856.C2716@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Michele Simionato:
> Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055356409.24319.python-list at python.org>...
  [...]
> > This kind of thing could make for subtle bugs if you get into the
> > habit of thinking of 'sum(L)' as a logical instead of an
> > arithmetic operation.
> 
> It is difficult to get in this habit since the name 'sum' makes clear
> that you are summing numbers; I don't think it is really dangerous.
> To me 'condition' is an iterable of predicates with values True or
> False, I would not certainly consider condition=[1,-1] a good
> candidate.

Indeed, it isn't a good candidate for this use of sum().  It's
just that in all normal uses-as-booleans, [1, -1] is a perfectly
good list of two true values, so I'd expect almost any piece of
boolean machinery to treat it as such; that sum does not means it
shouldn't normally be used for this IMO.  (The exception, of
course, is when the optimization of using sum() is really needed
and the input is known to be suitably constrained.)

I think we agree here.

> The point is that there is not a builtin multi_or/multi_and.
> I am not advocating it, the use case base is too little for
> two new builtins, IMHO. 

Agreed.

(I'm not even sure that the normal use for product() -- using it
to compute a product, rather than a logical and -- is common
enough to merit a built-in.)

  [...]
-- 
Steven Taschuk             "[W]e must be very careful when we give advice
staschuk at telusplanet.net    to younger people: sometimes they follow it!"
                             -- "The Humble Programmer", Edsger Dijkstra




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jun  8 11:29:42 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 11:29:42 -0400
Subject: Twisted - howto transport megabytes?
References: <pan.2003.06.08.05.01.17.794849@comcast.net> <mailman.1055052142.26164.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE35666.965E6369@engcorp.com>

Jp Calderone wrote:

>   Not that I want to discourage questions on c.l.py, but there is also a
> mailing list dedicated to twisted - twisted-python at twistedmatrix.com - where
> most developers are paying attention, and where more complex questions may
> meet with a response.

I just realized something -- examples like yours and Moshe's 
answer show how elegant the Twisted solution can be.

Questions like Ed's and answers like these are probably the best publicity 
Twisted can receive, if you're trying to attract new users.  ;-)

-Peter



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jun 20 14:23:02 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 20:23:02 +0200
Subject: sourceforge problems
References: <oP+b0PA97r8+Ew0C@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <m3llvwd2wp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> The text at
> http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=2352&group_id=1#cvs
> 
> seems to indicate that there may be up to a 24 hour delay in :pserver:
> access to cvs repositories. Whilst in no way decrying sf.net's
> contribution won't this have a bad effect on python (& many other
> projects) distribution?

There might be a way to migrate the CVS off SF. This is work in
progress, and I doubt it will happen before Python 2.3 is released (we
can't migrate repositories in the middle of a beta release
cycle). OTOH, SF has promised that they will add new hardware to CVS
in August, so the problem will go away one way or the other. At the
moment, I doubt there is much we can do.

So no, it won't have a bad effect in the long term.

Regards,
Martin



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jun 14 19:08:12 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 23:08:12 GMT
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com> <vehf3d38h6tn85@news.supernews.com> <bcdj6v$cc6$0@216.39.172.122> <bcf9va$kt5$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <bcg9ss$ns$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 16:00:50 +0200, anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>
>>I just thought to dig this up and turn it into a generator.
>>Something to check against ;-)
>
><snip pigen.py>
>
>Thanks for posting. After playing a while with it I noticed that the
>new itertools for Python23 are nice for this too. The version below
>doesn't use "n" and "k" in the generator and computes p and q in a
>for-loop. Also d and d1 are dropped for the sake of clarity, at the
>cost of computing just one extra a/b. 
>
>Anton
>
>from sys import stdout
>from itertools import count,islice,imap
>
>def pq(x): return x*x,2*x+1
>    
>def pigen():
>    a,b,c,d = 12,4,76,24
>    for p,q in imap(pq,count(3)):
>        while a/b == c/d:
>            yield str(a/b)
>            a,c = a%b*10, c%d*10
>        a,b,c,d = c,d,p*a+q*c,p*b+q*d
>
>def test():
>    ndigits = 60
>    map(stdout.write,islice(pigen(),ndigits))
>    print
>
>if __name__=='__main__':
>    test()

I guess I will have to install the 2.3 I downloaded ;-)

I am wondering if there could be some speed-enhancing short-cut
decisions in calculating a/b, given that the result is known to be
in range(10). (Perhaps it's already there as a byproduct of timbot wizardry).
also I wonder if divmod would be a good idea, since one would think
that would be cheaper than doing them separately.

Also, I wonder if calculating the digits to another base would make a difference,
e.g., base 2 (or maybe even 2**n to match internal representation of longs).
Base 2 would seem to allow division by comparison, and multiply py 2 as just
shift or add (again, maybe longs have some tweaks like that already built in?).

Other than the initial pi digit 3, IIRC just changing a,c = a%b*10, c%d*10
to a,c = a%b*2, c%d*2 is all you need to change the base. Then one could perhaps
reconsider the actual implementation of a few operations.

BTW, I noticed that you don't really need k at all since p is just successive squares
and q is a first difference of p that hence just advances by 2. E.g., you can
avoid a lot of multiplying:

--
def pigen2(radix=10):
    p, q, a, b, a1, b1 = 1L, 3L, 4L, 1L, 12L, 4L
    while True:
        p+=q; q+=2L      
        a, b, a1, b1 = a1, b1, p*a+q*a1, p*b+q*b1
        while 1: 
            d,dr = divmod(a,b)
            d1,d1r = divmod(a1,b1)
            if d != d1: break
            yield str(d)
            a, a1 = radix*dr, radix*d1r
--

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From maurix78_remove_this_ at wanadoo.es  Sun Jun 15 11:24:49 2003
From: maurix78_remove_this_ at wanadoo.es (Maurix)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:24:49 GMT
Subject: for a in range(1000000) : 
References: <3EEC8AED.5050808@wanadoo.es> <210Ha.159053$d51.227807@sccrnsc01>
Message-ID: <3EEC8FAC.5020202@wanadoo.es>

Thanks, exactly what i mean! And it was a built-in function! I'm blind!

Bryan wrote:
> see xrange:
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-66
> 




From nav at adams.patriot.net  Fri Jun 27 13:38:25 2003
From: nav at adams.patriot.net (Nick Vargish)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 13:38:25 -0400
Subject: SOAP  client
References: <PAVKa.126576$lK4.3527903@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <yyybrwj8lpq.fsf@adams.patriot.net>

Glauco <glauco at sferacarta.com> writes:

> I'm alone in  find a lot of problem in a SOAP Client ?

No, I'm finding the SOAP thing pretty hard going myself, and I'm
usually pretty good at figuring things out for myself. I have a couple
of Perl "SOAP:Lite" scripts that I am trying to translate into Python,
and it's been quite frustrating.

> I'm going crazy because function are not documented .
> Exist another solution for di a SOAP CLient ??

There's ZSI, which has been called "more mature" by some people, but I
can't see much of a difference in approachability. Neither seems to be
very well documented. What I could really use are some more
examples...

Here's one of the Perl scripts I'm trying to translate:

  use SOAP::Lite;
  print SOAP::Lite
    -> uri('urn:Temperatures')
    -> proxy('http://clerkcap.house.gov/scripts/temper.pl')
    -> f2c($ARGV[0])
    -> result;

It's just one call. What's the Pythonic equivalent, using either
SOAP.py or the ZSI package?

Obviously, I need a better understanding of how SOAP is supposed to
work, but even that basic documentation is surprisingly hard to find
on the Web.

Nick

-- 
# sigmask.py  ||  version 0.2  ||  2003-01-07  ||  Feed this to your Python.
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAqbusjpu/ofu?','')






From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Jun 12 15:17:43 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:17:43 -0300
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0188562C@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

You don?t ask yourself about being a Pythonista....

:p

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Jun  6 09:46:35 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:46:35 -0500 
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304FE7594@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Leeds, Mark [mailto:mleeds at mlp.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 6:12 PM
> 
> I have another date question :
> 
> Now I have dates that are of the form
> 
> 2/14/1980 so
> I tried to read them in using
> 
> Temptime = time.strptime(filedate,"%m" + "//" + "%d" + "//" + 
> "%Y") But
> I get some weird error like format mismatch.
> 
> Could it be because the date is 2/14 instead of 02/14 ?
> 
> This will be my last question about dates.
> 
> 					mark
>

You *could* use a regular expression to reformat the date,
something like this:


Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> import re
>>> rxDate = re.compile(r"(\d{1,2})/(\d{1,2})/(\d{4})")
>>> def ReformatDate(dateString):
	date = rxDate.search(dateString)
	if date:
		return "%02d/%02d/%04d" % tuple(map(int,date.groups()))
	raise ValueError("Date has inappropriate format: %s" % dateString)

>>> ReformatDate("3/6/1969")
'03/06/1969'
>>>


hth.

-gca

--
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From paul_rudin at scientia.com  Wed Jun 25 04:34:51 2003
From: paul_rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 09:34:51 +0100
Subject: Booleans and comparison results
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306241915430.5887-100000@rnd.onego.ru> <mailman.1056468546.28489.python-list@python.org> <bdb2ta$psllg$2@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <u8yrqftck.fsf@scientia.com>

>>>>> "Greg" == Greg Ewing (using news cis dfn de) <g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com> writes:

    > Gerrit Holl wrote:
    >> Is "" less than " "? I don't think so: I think that for
    >> non-numbers, "Less" and "More" may be misleading/incorrect. I
    >> like the idea though ;)

    > Maybe "Before" and "After"?

    > Or "Preceding" and... er... um... "Postceding"?

ITYM "Succeeding" :-)




From anlri at wmdata.com  Mon Jun 30 07:26:17 2003
From: anlri at wmdata.com (alr)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 04:26:17 -0700
Subject: Idiomatic way of repeating items in a sequence.
Message-ID: <f58803d.0306300326.705bad44@posting.google.com>

I need to repeat each item in a list n times, like this function does:

  def repeatitems(sequence, repetitions):
      newlist = []
      for item in sequence:
          for i in range(repetitions):
              newlist.append(item)
      return newlist

Output:

  >>> repeatitems(['a', 'b', 'c'], 3)
  ['a', 'a', 'a', 'b', 'b', 'b', 'c', 'c', 'c']

Clear and simple. But i wonder if there is a more idiomatic way. Surely not this:

  def repeatitems(sequence, repetitions):
      return reduce(lambda l, i: l + i, [[item] * repetitions for item in sequence])

?



From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Thu Jun 12 17:42:20 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 21:42:20 GMT
Subject: Glue code
References: <2996386.1055452530@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <0t6Ga.141897$h42.137946@twister.nyc.rr.com>

ctypes,
boost.python
and I think there are more...

--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]


"DB_RobertP" <member31018 at dbforums.com> wrote in message
news:2996386.1055452530 at dbforums.com...
>
> What systems do people use to easily make C/C++ code visible to Python?
> I'm currently checking out Swig, but I've heard others mentioned. If
> anyone has any experience with these systems, could you recommend one to
> look into? Also, any other general pointers when trying to extend C/C++
> code to python sctipts would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks!
> Robert
>
> --
> Posted via http://dbforums.com





From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Jun 23 02:01:46 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 08:01:46 +0200
Subject: rexec safe with Python 2.1?
References: <mailman.1056308862.17627.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3y8ztib79.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

> You may have noticed that rexec was pulled under 2.2.3 because it
> currently isn't safe. AFAIR the reason it became unsafe was new-style
> classes.
> 
> My question is wether falling back to Python 2.1 will make rexec safe again.

I think it is not. It appears that it would suffer from SF bug
#577530, which was fixed in rexec.py 1.41. It also suffers from SF bug
#533625.

IOW, rexec was never safe.

Regards,
Martin




From prabu at ti.com  Fri Jun 13 04:04:09 2003
From: prabu at ti.com (Prabu)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:34:09 +0530
Subject: On building Python with LCC-win32
Message-ID: <bcc0ov$60f$2@home.itg.ti.com>

Hi there,
I tried building python code (ver2.2.2) with LCC-Win32..I started with
Python-core. After making a number of changes in the code, I was able to
build the python22.dll. But when run, python.exe raises an exception
"Application failed to initialise properly".
Using a python script, I extracted the changes I made in the code, using
NO_MSVC as a macro. These are copied below. Could any Python/PC
experts show the way please? Or if someone else has already built it, please
do send me the information.
Note: I havenot used the provided resource files (*.rc) which provide the
base address etc, as LCC doesnot seem to provide a means of specifying it.

Cheers
Prabu
(changes follow)
=======================================================


NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Include\pygetopt.h
======>>#ifdef NO_MSVC
 extern int _PyOS_opterr;
 extern int _PyOS_optind;
 extern char * _PyOS_optarg;

 int _PyOS_GetOpt(int argc, char **argv, char *optstring);
#else
 extern DL_IMPORT(int) _PyOS_opterr;
 extern DL_IMPORT(int) _PyOS_optind;
 extern DL_IMPORT(char *) _PyOS_optarg;

 DL_IMPORT(int) _PyOS_GetOpt(int argc, char **argv, char *optstring);
#endif /* NO_MSVC */

#ifdef __cplusplus
}
#endif
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Include\pythonrun.h
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================

/* Interfaces to parse and execute pieces of python code */

#ifndef Py_PYTHONRUN_H
#define Py_PYTHONRUN_H
#ifdef __cplusplus
extern "C" {
#endif

#define PyCF_MASK (CO_GENERATOR_ALLOWED | CO_FUTURE_DIVISION)
#define PyCF_MASK_OBSOLETE (CO_NESTED)

typedef struct {
 int cf_flags;  /* bitmask of CO_xxx flags relevant to future */
} PyCompilerFlags;

======>>#ifdef NO_MSVC
extern void  Py_SetProgramName(char *);
extern char * Py_GetProgramName(void);

extern void Py_SetPythonHome(char *);
extern char * Py_GetPythonHome(void);

extern void Py_Initialize(void);
extern void Py_Finalize(void);
extern int Py_IsInitialized(void);
extern PyThreadState * Py_NewInterpreter(void);
extern void Py_EndInterpreter(PyThreadState *);

extern int PyRun_AnyFile(FILE *, char *);
extern int PyRun_AnyFileEx(FILE *, char *, int);

extern int PyRun_AnyFileFlags(FILE *, char *, PyCompilerFlags *);
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Modules\posixmodule.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
   #define HAVE_PIPE       1
   #define HAVE_POPEN      1
   #define HAVE_SYSTEM 1
   #define HAVE_WAIT       1
  #else
   #ifdef _MSC_VER   /* Microsoft compiler */
    #define HAVE_GETCWD     1
    #ifdef MS_WIN32
     #define HAVE_SPAWNV     1
     #define HAVE_EXECV      1
     #define HAVE_PIPE       1
     #define HAVE_POPEN      1
     #define HAVE_SYSTEM     1
    #else /* 16-bit Windows */
    #endif /* !MS_WIN32 */
   #else   /* all other compilers */
======>>    #ifdef NO_MSVC
     /* #define HAVE_SPAWNV 1 */
     #define HAVE_EXECV      1
     #define HAVE_PIPE       1
     #define HAVE_POPEN      1
     #define HAVE_SYSTEM     1
    #else /* prabu */
     /* Unix functions that the configure script doesn't check for */
     #define HAVE_EXECV      1
     #define HAVE_FORK       1
      #if defined(__USLC__) && defined(__SCO_VERSION__) /* SCO UDK Compiler
*/
       #define HAVE_FORK1      1
      #endif
     #define HAVE_GETCWD     1
     #define HAVE_GETEGID    1
     #define HAVE_GETEUID    1
     #define HAVE_GETGID     1
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Modules\posixmodule.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
#ifdef HAVE_SYMLINK
extern int symlink(const char *, const char *);
#endif /* HAVE_SYMLINK */
#ifdef HAVE_LSTAT
extern int lstat(const char *, struct stat *);
#endif /* HAVE_LSTAT */
#endif /* !HAVE_UNISTD_H */

#endif /* !_MSC_VER */

#ifdef HAVE_UTIME_H
#include <utime.h>
#endif /* HAVE_UTIME_H */

#ifdef HAVE_SYS_UTIME_H
#include <sys/utime.h>
======>> #ifdef NO_MSVC
 #else
  #define HAVE_UTIME_H /* pretend we do for the rest of this file */
 #endif /* NO_MSVC */
#endif /* HAVE_SYS_UTIME_H */

#ifdef HAVE_SYS_TIMES_H
#include <sys/times.h>
#endif /* HAVE_SYS_TIMES_H */

#ifdef HAVE_SYS_PARAM_H
#include <sys/param.h>
#endif /* HAVE_SYS_PARAM_H */

#ifdef HAVE_SYS_UTSNAME_H
#include <sys/utsname.h>
#endif /* HAVE_SYS_UTSNAME_H */
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Modules\posixmodule.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
#endif

#ifdef _MSC_VER
 #include <direct.h>
 #include <io.h>
 #include <process.h>
 #define WINDOWS_LEAN_AND_MEAN
 #include <windows.h>
 #ifdef MS_WIN32
  #define popen _popen
  #define pclose _pclose
 #else /* 16-bit Windows */
  #include <dos.h>
  #include <ctype.h>
 #endif /* MS_WIN32 */
#else
======>> #ifdef NO_MSVC
  #include <direct.h>
  #include <io.h>
  #include <process.h>
  #define WINDOWS_LEAN_AND_MEAN
  #include <windows.h>
  #include <shellapi.h>
  #ifdef MS_WIN32
   #define _fdopen fdopen /* prabu */
   #define utime _utime /* prabu */
   #define _stricmp stricmp /* prabu */
   #define popen _popen
   #define pclose _pclose
  #else /* 16-bit Windows */
   #include <dos.h>
   #include <ctype.h>
  #endif /* MS_WIN32 */
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Modules\posixmodule.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
#endif

#endif /* UNION_WAIT */

/* Don't use the "_r" form if we don't need it (also, won't have a
   prototype for it, at least on Solaris -- maybe others as well?). */
#if defined(HAVE_CTERMID_R) && defined(WITH_THREAD)
#define USE_CTERMID_R
#endif

#if defined(HAVE_TMPNAM_R) && defined(WITH_THREAD)
#define USE_TMPNAM_R
#endif

/* choose the appropriate stat and fstat functions and return structs */
#undef STAT
======>>#ifdef NO_MSVC /* prabu */
 # define STAT stat
 # define FSTAT fstat
 # define STRUCT_STAT struct stat
#else
 #if defined(MS_WIN64) || defined(MS_WIN32)
 # define STAT _stati64
 # define FSTAT _fstati64
 # define STRUCT_STAT struct _stati64
 #else
 # define STAT stat
 # define FSTAT fstat
 # define STRUCT_STAT struct stat
 #endif
#endif  /* NO_MSVC */


=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Modules\posixmodule.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
 # define FSTAT fstat
 # define STRUCT_STAT struct stat
#else
 #if defined(MS_WIN64) || defined(MS_WIN32)
 # define STAT _stati64
 # define FSTAT _fstati64
 # define STRUCT_STAT struct _stati64
 #else
 # define STAT stat
 # define FSTAT fstat
 # define STRUCT_STAT struct stat
 #endif
#endif  /* NO_MSVC */


/* Return a dictionary corresponding to the POSIX environment table */
======>>#if !defined(_MSC_VER) && ( !defined(__WATCOMC__) ||
defined(__QNX__) ) && !defined(NO_MSVC)
extern char **environ;
#endif /* !_MSC_VER */ /* !NO_MSVC */

#ifdef NO_MSVC
#define environ _environ
extern char **environ;
#endif /* NO_MSVC */



static PyObject *
convertenviron(void)
{
 PyObject *d;
 char **e;
 d = PyDict_New();
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Modules\posixmodule.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
 # define STAT _stati64
 # define FSTAT _fstati64
 # define STRUCT_STAT struct _stati64
 #else
 # define STAT stat
 # define FSTAT fstat
 # define STRUCT_STAT struct stat
 #endif
#endif  /* NO_MSVC */


/* Return a dictionary corresponding to the POSIX environment table */
#if !defined(_MSC_VER) && ( !defined(__WATCOMC__) || defined(__QNX__) ) &&
!defined(NO_MSVC)
extern char **environ;
#endif /* !_MSC_VER */ /* !NO_MSVC */

======>>#ifdef NO_MSVC
#define environ _environ
extern char **environ;
#endif /* NO_MSVC */



static PyObject *
convertenviron(void)
{
 PyObject *d;
 char **e;
 d = PyDict_New();
 if (d == NULL)
  return NULL;
 if (environ == NULL)
  return d;
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Modules\posixmodule.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
#endif /* MS_WIN32 */

static char posix_mkdir__doc__[] =
"mkdir(path [, mode=0777]) -> None\n\
Create a directory.";

static PyObject *
posix_mkdir(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
 int res;
 char *path = NULL;
 int mode = 0777;
 if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "et|i:mkdir",
                       Py_FileSystemDefaultEncoding, &path, &mode))
  return NULL;
 Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
======>>#if ( defined(__WATCOMC__) || defined(_MSC_VER) ||
defined(PYCC_VACPP) ) && !defined(__QNX__) || defined (NO_MSVC)
 res = mkdir(path);
#else
 res = mkdir(path, mode);
#endif /* NO_MSVC */
 Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
 if (res < 0)
  return posix_error_with_allocated_filename(path);
 PyMem_Free(path);
 Py_INCREF(Py_None);
 return Py_None;
}


#ifdef HAVE_NICE
#if defined(HAVE_BROKEN_NICE) && defined(HAVE_SYS_RESOURCE_H)
#if defined(HAVE_GETPRIORITY) && !defined(PRIO_PROCESS)
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Modules\posixmodule.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
 case 0: how = SEEK_SET; break;
 case 1: how = SEEK_CUR; break;
 case 2: how = SEEK_END; break;
 }
#endif /* SEEK_END */

#if !defined(HAVE_LARGEFILE_SUPPORT)
 pos = PyInt_AsLong(posobj);
#else
 pos = PyLong_Check(posobj) ?
  PyLong_AsLongLong(posobj) : PyInt_AsLong(posobj);
#endif
 if (PyErr_Occurred())
  return NULL;

 Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS
======>>#if defined(MS_WIN64) || defined(MS_WIN32) && !defined(NO_MSVC)
 res = _lseeki64(fd, pos, how);
#else
 res = lseek(fd, pos, how);
#endif /* NO_MSVC */
 Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS
 if (res < 0)
  return posix_error();

#if !defined(HAVE_LARGEFILE_SUPPORT)
 return PyInt_FromLong(res);
#else
 return PyLong_FromLongLong(res);
#endif
}


=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Modules\timemodule.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================

DL_EXPORT(void)
inittime(void)
{
 PyObject *m, *d;
 char *p;
 m = Py_InitModule3("time", time_methods, module_doc);
 d = PyModule_GetDict(m);
 /* Accept 2-digit dates unless PYTHONY2K is set and non-empty */
 p = Py_GETENV("PYTHONY2K");
 ins(d, "accept2dyear", PyInt_FromLong((long) (!p || !*p)));
 /* Squirrel away the module's dictionary for the y2k check */
 Py_INCREF(d);
 moddict = d;
#if defined(HAVE_TZNAME) && !defined(__GLIBC__) && !defined(__CYGWIN__)
 tzset();
======>>#if defined(PYOS_OS2) || defined(NO_MSVC)
  ins(d, "timezone", PyInt_FromLong((long)_timezone));
#else /* !PYOS_OS2 */
  ins(d, "timezone", PyInt_FromLong((long)timezone));
#endif /* PYOS_OS2 */ /* NO_MSVC */
#ifdef HAVE_ALTZONE
 ins(d, "altzone", PyInt_FromLong((long)altzone));
#else
#if defined(PYOS_OS2) || defined(NO_MSVC)
 ins(d, "altzone", PyInt_FromLong((long)_timezone-3600));
#else /* !PYOS_OS2 */
 ins(d, "altzone", PyInt_FromLong((long)timezone-3600));
#endif /* PYOS_OS2 */ /* NO_MSVC */
#endif
 ins(d, "daylight", PyInt_FromLong((long)daylight));
 ins(d, "tzname", Py_BuildValue("(zz)", tzname[0], tzname[1]));
#else /* !HAVE_TZNAME || __GLIBC__ || __CYGWIN__*/
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Modules\timemodule.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
 /* Accept 2-digit dates unless PYTHONY2K is set and non-empty */
 p = Py_GETENV("PYTHONY2K");
 ins(d, "accept2dyear", PyInt_FromLong((long) (!p || !*p)));
 /* Squirrel away the module's dictionary for the y2k check */
 Py_INCREF(d);
 moddict = d;
#if defined(HAVE_TZNAME) && !defined(__GLIBC__) && !defined(__CYGWIN__)
 tzset();
#if defined(PYOS_OS2) || defined(NO_MSVC)
  ins(d, "timezone", PyInt_FromLong((long)_timezone));
#else /* !PYOS_OS2 */
  ins(d, "timezone", PyInt_FromLong((long)timezone));
#endif /* PYOS_OS2 */ /* NO_MSVC */
#ifdef HAVE_ALTZONE
 ins(d, "altzone", PyInt_FromLong((long)altzone));
#else
======>>#if defined(PYOS_OS2) || defined(NO_MSVC)
 ins(d, "altzone", PyInt_FromLong((long)_timezone-3600));
#else /* !PYOS_OS2 */
 ins(d, "altzone", PyInt_FromLong((long)timezone-3600));
#endif /* PYOS_OS2 */ /* NO_MSVC */
#endif
 ins(d, "daylight", PyInt_FromLong((long)daylight));
 ins(d, "tzname", Py_BuildValue("(zz)", tzname[0], tzname[1]));
#else /* !HAVE_TZNAME || __GLIBC__ || __CYGWIN__*/
#ifdef HAVE_TM_ZONE
 {
#define YEAR ((time_t)((365 * 24 + 6) * 3600))
  time_t t;
  struct tm *p;
  long janzone, julyzone;
  char janname[10], julyname[10];
  t = (time((time_t *)0) / YEAR) * YEAR;
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Modules\_hotshot.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
/*
 * This is the High Performance Python Profiler portion of HotShot.
 */

#include "Python.h"
#include "compile.h"
#include "eval.h"
#include "frameobject.h"
#include "structmember.h"

/*
 * Which timer to use should be made more configurable, but that should not
 * be difficult.  This will do for now.
 */
#ifdef MS_WIN32
#include <windows.h>
======>>#ifdef NO_MSVC
#else
 #include <largeint.h>
#endif /* NO_MSVC */
#include <direct.h>    /* for getcwd() */
typedef __int64 hs_time;
#define GETTIMEOFDAY(P_HS_TIME) \
 { LARGE_INTEGER _temp; \
   QueryPerformanceCounter(&_temp); \
   *(P_HS_TIME) = _temp.QuadPart; }


#else
#ifndef HAVE_GETTIMEOFDAY
#error "This module requires gettimeofday() on non-Windows platforms!"
#endif
#ifdef macintosh
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Modules\_localemodule.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
    PyMem_Free(buf);
    return result;
}

#if defined(MS_WIN32)
static PyObject*
PyLocale_getdefaultlocale(PyObject* self, PyObject* args)
{
    char encoding[100];
    char locale[100];

    if (!PyArg_NoArgs(args))
        return NULL;

    PyOS_snprintf(encoding, sizeof(encoding), "cp%d", GetACP());

======>>#ifdef NO_MSVC
#else
    if (GetLocaleInfo(LOCALE_USER_DEFAULT,
                      LOCALE_SISO639LANGNAME,
                      locale, sizeof(locale))) {
        int i = strlen(locale);
        locale[i++] = '_';
        if (GetLocaleInfo(LOCALE_USER_DEFAULT,
                          LOCALE_SISO3166CTRYNAME,
                          locale+i, sizeof(locale)-i))
            return Py_BuildValue("ss", locale, encoding);
    }
#endif /* NO_MSVC */

    /* If we end up here, this windows version didn't know about
       ISO639/ISO3166 names (it's probably Windows 95).  Return the
       Windows language identifier instead (a hexadecimal number) */
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Objects\fileobject.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
_portable_fseek(FILE *fp, Py_off_t offset, int whence)
{
#if !defined(HAVE_LARGEFILE_SUPPORT)
 return fseek(fp, offset, whence);
#elif defined(HAVE_FSEEKO) && SIZEOF_OFF_T >= 8
 return fseeko(fp, offset, whence);
#elif defined(HAVE_FSEEK64)
 return fseek64(fp, offset, whence);
#elif defined(__BEOS__)
 return _fseek(fp, offset, whence);
#elif SIZEOF_FPOS_T >= 8
 /* lacking a 64-bit capable fseek(), use a 64-bit capable fsetpos()
    and fgetpos() to implement fseek()*/
 fpos_t pos;
 switch (whence) {
 case SEEK_END:
======>>#if defined(MS_WINDOWS) && !defined(NO_MSVC)
  fflush(fp);
  if (_lseeki64(fileno(fp), 0, 2) == -1)
   return -1;
#else
  if (fseek(fp, 0, SEEK_END) != 0)
   return -1;
#endif /* NO_MSVC */
  /* fall through */
 case SEEK_CUR:
  if (fgetpos(fp, &pos) != 0)
   return -1;
  offset += pos;
  break;
 /* case SEEK_SET: break; */
 }
 return fsetpos(fp, &offset);
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\PC\getpathp.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
 if (ppPaths) {
  for(index=0;index<numKeys;index++)
   if (ppPaths[index]) free(ppPaths[index]);
  free(ppPaths);
 }
 if (newKey)
  RegCloseKey(newKey);
 if (keyBuf)
  free(keyBuf);
 return retval;
}
#endif /* MS_WIN32 */

static void
get_progpath(void)
{
======>>#ifdef NO_MSVC
#else
 extern char *Py_GetProgramName(void);
#endif /* NO_MSVC */
 char *path = getenv("PATH");
 char *prog = Py_GetProgramName();

#ifdef MS_WIN32
#ifdef UNICODE
 WCHAR wprogpath[MAXPATHLEN+1];
 /* Windows documents that GetModuleFileName() will "truncate",
    but makes no mention of the null terminator.  Play it safe.
    PLUS Windows itself defines MAX_PATH as the same, but anyway...
 */
 wprogpath[MAXPATHLEN]=_T('\0')';
 if (GetModuleFileName(NULL, wprogpath, MAXPATHLEN)) {
  WideCharToMultiByte(CP_ACP, 0,
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\PC\pyconfig.h
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================

/* Define if you have dirent.h.  */
/* #define DIRENT 1 */

/* Define to the type of elements in the array set by `getgroups'.
   Usually this is either `int' or `gid_t'.  */
/* #undef GETGROUPS_T */

/* Define to `int' if <sys/types.h> doesn't define.  */
/* #undef gid_t */

/* Define if your struct tm has tm_zone.  */
/* #undef HAVE_TM_ZONE */

/* Define if you don't have tm_zone but do have the external array
   tzname.  */
======>>#ifdef NO_MSVC
#else
#define HAVE_TZNAME
#endif /* NO_MSVC */

/* Define if on MINIX.  */
/* #undef _MINIX */

/* Define to `int' if <sys/types.h> doesn't define.  */
/* #undef mode_t */
   #define mode_t int /* prabu */

/* Define if you don't have dirent.h, but have ndir.h.  */
/* #undef NDIR */

/* Define to `long' if <sys/types.h> doesn't define.  */
/* #undef off_t */
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\PC\pyconfig.h
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
   means wchar_t must be 16-bit unsigned type. (see
   Include/unicodeobject.h). */
#if Py_UNICODE_SIZE == 2
#define HAVE_USABLE_WCHAR_T
#endif

/* Define if you want cycle garbage collection */
#define WITH_CYCLE_GC 1

/* Define if you have clock.  */
/* #define HAVE_CLOCK */

/* Define when any dynamic module loading is enabled */
#define HAVE_DYNAMIC_LOADING

/* Define if you have ftime.  */
======>>#ifdef NO_MSVC
#else
#define HAVE_FTIME
#endif /* NO_MSVC */

/* Define if you have getpeername.  */
#define HAVE_GETPEERNAME

/* Define if you have getpgrp.  */
/* #undef HAVE_GETPGRP */

/* Define if you have getpid.  */
#define HAVE_GETPID

/* Define if you have gettimeofday.  */
/* #undef HAVE_GETTIMEOFDAY */

=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\PC\pyconfig.h
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
/* Define if you have the <sys/times.h> header file.  */
/* #define HAVE_SYS_TIMES_H 1 */

/* Define if you have the <sys/un.h> header file.  */
/* #define HAVE_SYS_UN_H 1 */

/* Define if you have the <sys/utime.h> header file.  */
/* #define HAVE_SYS_UTIME_H 1 */  /* This is already defined above - Prabu
*/

/* Define if you have the <sys/utsname.h> header file.  */
/* #define HAVE_SYS_UTSNAME_H 1 */

/* Define if you have the <thread.h> header file.  */
/* #undef HAVE_THREAD_H */

/* Define if you have the <unistd.h> header file.  */
======>>#ifdef NO_MSVC
   #define HAVE_UNISTD_H 1
#endif /* NO_MSVC */

/* Define if you have the <utime.h> header file.  */
   #define HAVE_UTIME_H 1  /* prabu */

/* Define if you have the dl library (-ldl).  */
/* #undef HAVE_LIBDL */

/* Define if you have the mpc library (-lmpc).  */
/* #undef HAVE_LIBMPC */

/* Define if you have the nsl library (-lnsl).  */
   /* #define HAVE_LIBNSL 1 */  /* prabu */

/* Define if you have the seq library (-lseq).  */
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Python\errors.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
#include "Python.h"

#ifdef macintosh
extern char *PyMac_StrError(int);
#undef strerror
#define strerror PyMac_StrError
#endif /* macintosh */

#ifndef __STDC__
#ifndef MS_WINDOWS
extern char *strerror(int);
#endif
#endif

#ifdef MS_WIN32
#include "windows.h"
======>> #ifdef NO_MSVC /*where to find winbase.h ??? - Prabu */
 #else
  #include "winbase.h"
 #endif /* NO_MSVC */
#endif

#include <ctype.h>

void
PyErr_Restore(PyObject *type, PyObject *value, PyObject *traceback)
{
 PyThreadState *tstate = PyThreadState_GET();
 PyObject *oldtype, *oldvalue, *oldtraceback;

 if (traceback != NULL && !PyTraceBack_Check(traceback)) {
  /* XXX Should never happen -- fatal error instead? */
  Py_DECREF(traceback);
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Python\errors.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
#ifdef EINTR
 if (i == EINTR && PyErr_CheckSignals())
  return NULL;
#endif
 if (i == 0)
  s = "Error"; /* Sometimes errno didn't get set */
 else
#ifndef MS_WIN32
  s = strerror(i);
#else
 {
  /* Note that the Win32 errors do not lineup with the
     errno error.  So if the error is in the MSVC error
     table, we use it, otherwise we assume it really _is_
     a Win32 error code
  */
======>>#ifdef NO_MSVC
#else
  if (i > 0 && i < _sys_nerr) {
   s = _sys_errlist[i];
  }
  else
#endif /* NO_MSVC */
  {
   int len = FormatMessage(
    FORMAT_MESSAGE_ALLOCATE_BUFFER |
    FORMAT_MESSAGE_FROM_SYSTEM |
    FORMAT_MESSAGE_IGNORE_INSERTS,
    NULL, /* no message source */
    i,
    MAKELANGID(LANG_NEUTRAL,
        SUBLANG_DEFAULT),
               /* Default language */
=============================================================




NO_MSVC found in filename: d:\Python-2.2.2\Python\pythonrun.c
16 lines before and after occurrence follow:
=============================================================
 co = PyNode_CompileFlags(n, filename, flags);
 PyNode_Free(n);
 if (co == NULL)
  return NULL;
 v = PyEval_EvalCode(co, globals, locals);
 Py_DECREF(co);
 return v;
}

static PyObject *
run_pyc_file(FILE *fp, char *filename, PyObject *globals, PyObject *locals,
      PyCompilerFlags *flags)
{
 PyCodeObject *co;
 PyObject *v;
 long magic;
======>>#ifdef NO_MSVC
#else
 long PyImport_GetMagicNumber(void);
#endif /* NO_MSVC */

 magic = PyMarshal_ReadLongFromFile(fp);
 if (magic != PyImport_GetMagicNumber()) {
  PyErr_SetString(PyExc_RuntimeError,
      "Bad magic number in .pyc file");
  return NULL;
 }
 (void) PyMarshal_ReadLongFromFile(fp);
 v = PyMarshal_ReadLastObjectFromFile(fp);
 fclose(fp);
 if (v == NULL || !PyCode_Check(v)) {
  Py_XDECREF(v);
  PyErr_SetString(PyExc_RuntimeError,
=============================================================




Here is the list of files modified
Include\pygetopt.h
Include\pythonrun.h
Modules\posixmodule.c
Modules\posixmodule.c
Modules\posixmodule.c
Modules\posixmodule.c
Modules\posixmodule.c
Modules\posixmodule.c
Modules\posixmodule.c
Modules\posixmodule.c
Modules\timemodule.c
Modules\timemodule.c
Modules\_hotshot.c
Modules\_localemodule.c
Objects\fileobject.c
PC\getpathp.c
PC\pyconfig.h
PC\pyconfig.h
PC\pyconfig.h
Python\errors.c
Python\errors.c
Python\pythonrun.c








From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Jun 18 11:14:12 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:14:12 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <87adcfo7oq.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <8l%Ha.107937$pR3.2354921@news1.tin.it>

John J. Lee wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> [...]
>> But this has little to do with the need of 'type declarations'.  I
>> suspect that a statically typed language would also be better off
>> without them, relying on type inferencing instead, a la Haskell (and
>> Haskell's typeclasses to keep the inferencing as wide as feasible),
>> for example.  But I have no research to back this up;-).
> 
> Let me magically conjure into existence a really nice language based
> on static type inference (let's have it beautifully designed, learning
> as many lessons from Python as possible, with oodles of good library
> code, including easy connection to C, C++, Java, COM, .NET, CORBA
> etc...).
> 
> Are you going to switch your most frequent first-choice from Python to
> this statically-typed language?
> 
> That's *not* a rhetorical question: I don't know the answer.

I don't know the answer either.  It would depend on empirical measurements
of how productive I am for my typical tasks in Python vs Magicklang, as
well as on subjective measurements of how much I enjoy using either, etc,
etc, AND market demand (effective demand, as in $$$-offered;-) for my
services in either capacity.  E.g. if Magicklang had perfect compliance
with .NET, Python yet hadn't, and oodles of customers were beating at
my door, bags of gold coins in their hands, desperately pleading for
.NET applications and consultancy, then my switching to Magicklang for
this purpose would be far from impossible -- I doubt the type inference
could be as destructive of my productivity and enjoyment, compared to the
dynamic typing alternative, as to make me refuse the $$$ in question, if,
as you say, Magicklang was so beautifully designed and Python-inspired...


Alex




From brian at sweetapp.com  Sun Jun  8 17:35:43 2003
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 14:35:43 -0700
Subject: Characters in Python
In-Reply-To: <just-1D1CCA.22464608062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <004701c32e05$ea59e560$21795418@dell1700>

> I was afraid it worked like that... My use case is this: if a user
opens
> a text file in my app that isn't ascii, I'd like to offer a dialog so
> the user can choose an encoding from a popup menu or a combo box. I
> guess I'll just hard code a list of encodings.

That is probably the best idea anyway since there are a lot of obscure
encodings (e.g. EBCDIC) that you don't want to expose to the user.

Cheers,
Brian





From ebolonev at mail.ru  Sun Jun 29 19:14:20 2003
From: ebolonev at mail.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:14:20 +1100
Subject: To get all property of a class?
References: <yTJLa.273191$g92.6375448@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bdns48$jlr$1@news.rol.ru>

> Exist a sintax like
>
> import Foo
> for property in Foo
>     print property
>


for i in dir(a):
    if a[0] <>'_':
        print a;'=';a.i # isn't work, I don't know how to manage it - 'a.i'


      dir( [object])

Without arguments, return the list of names in the current local symbol
table. With an argument, attempts to return a list of valid attributes for
that object. This information is gleaned from the object's __dict__
attribute, if defined, and from the class or type object. The list is not
necessarily complete. If the object is a module object, the list contains
the names of the module's attributes. If the object is a type or class
object, the list contains the names of its attributes, and recursively of
the attributes of its bases. Otherwise, the list contains the object's
attributes' names, the names of its class's attributes, and recursively of
the attributes of its class's base classes. The resulting list is sorted
alphabetically. For example:

>>> import struct
>>> dir()
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'struct']
>>> dir(struct)
['__doc__', '__name__', 'calcsize', 'error', 'pack', 'unpack']

Note: Because dir() is supplied primarily as a convenience for use at an
interactive prompt, it tries to supply an interesting set of names more than
it tries to supply a rigorously or consistently defined set of names, and
its detailed behavior may change across releases.






From alf at fayauffre.org  Fri Jun 27 09:58:19 2003
From: alf at fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:58:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: pymacs problem on load
Message-ID: <slrnbfojbr.td.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>

Hi there, 

I'm not an emacs power user at all, just getting started with pymacs to
try to get BicycleRepairMan to run.

I have pymacs 0.21 installed, and on init, I get an emacs error. The
*Backtrace* buffer says:

Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "Pymacs Lisp version is @VERSION@,
Python
+is 0.21.")
  signal(error ("Pymacs Lisp version is @VERSION@, Python is 0.21."))
  error("Pymacs Lisp version is @VERSION@, Python is %s." "0.21")
  pymacs-start-services()
  pymacs-serve-until-reply((pymacs-print-for-apply (quote "pymacs_load_helper") 
  (quote ("bikeemacs" "brm-"))))
  pymacs-apply("pymacs_load_helper" ("bikeemacs" "brm-"))
  pymacs-call("pymacs_load_helper" "bikeemacs" "brm-")
  pymacs-load("bikeemacs" "brm-")
  eval-buffer(#<buffer  *load*> nil "~/.emacs" nil t)
  load-with-code-conversion("/home/alf/.emacs" "~/.emacs" t t)
  load("~/.emacs" t t)

I think I may have pymacs not correctly installed, but any hint is
welcome. 

I'm using emacs21 and python2.2 on GNU/Linux.

Any hint taken
  
      

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Jun  5 13:00:23 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:00:23 -0400
Subject: Using instance as __doc__
References: <45e6545c.0306041804.4ea5e07c@posting.google.com>
 <5SKdnbYwob4BVkOjXTWcpw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <nc33+ks/KPhM089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <5SKdnbYwob4BVkOjXTWcpw at comcast.com>,
"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>
>"Seo Sanghyeon" <unendliche at hanmail.net> wrote in message
>news:45e6545c.0306041804.4ea5e07c at posting.google.com...
>> So... Python throws out __doc__ if it is not a real string. Why not
>use
>> something like "doc = str(doc)" instead? Yeah, quite useless,
>perhaps.
>> I have no idea of possible use cases. But if there is some hidden
>reason
>> for not to use str() on instance __doc__, please enlighten me.
>
>Probably no one ever thought to do so.  And developers are reluctant
>to penalize 99.999% of uses for the .001% that might do something
>wierd like this

Looks like somebody's trying to internationalize doc strings.

        Regards.        Mel.



From AgentSmith at Matrix.com  Tue Jun 10 09:39:27 2003
From: AgentSmith at Matrix.com (Hyperion)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:39:27 +0100
Subject: When do ActivePython update?
Message-ID: <bc4mvv$j7l$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

Just wondering when ActivePython updates there version of python to the
latest version-build.

Python is now 2.2.3 is it not? and ActivePython is still 2.2.2.

Using windows preferable over Linux - always - I use Actives
distrobutions of perl and python, so.....

Does anybody Kn ow when they update?

Hyperion out



From tbstep at tampaSNAKESbay.rr.com  Wed Jun 11 17:21:20 2003
From: tbstep at tampaSNAKESbay.rr.com (Todd Stephens)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:21:20 GMT
Subject: idle /idlefork slackware
References: <mailman.1055300241.15234.python-list@python.org> <EnxFa.47409$4y6.725926@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <mailman.1055326580.3828.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k3NFa.62964$cm4.989437@twister.tampabay.rr.com>

Despite the loss of both hands in a freak bowling accident, Rick Miles
managed to scrawl in <mailman.1055326580.3828.python-list at python.org>:

> Just what Python packages and "goodies" should I be looking to install if
> I were to go for Idle on Slack instead of using Kate?

The default Slackware packages, I am told, leave out several modules that
most people consider important at least in learning Python.  Not sure
exactly, but look at Chris Kassopulo's post in this thread for some better
news.

-- 
Todd Stephens

for email, emulate St. Patrick in the land of Jose Gaspar



From immel6 at attbi.com  Fri Jun  6 00:44:50 2003
From: immel6 at attbi.com (Thomas I)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 04:44:50 GMT
Subject: python/curator crashing on smb mounts
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.06.04.49.43.556339@attbi.com>

Hello c.l.p

 I have the following issue with python. I use curator
(http://curator.sourceforge.net) to organize digital
photos. It requires imagemagick, and works great on my
slackware 9.0 box. It makes thumbnails and html pages for each
image. Super.

  On a smbmount-ed directory on my NT machine, it crashes. It makes
all the thumbnails, but then it tries to monkey around the directories
to find other jpegs to make thumbnails of. It crashes with this error.
(the 'generating thumbnail' line is just to show it was working)

thumbnail absent 'DCP_0128--thumb.jpg'
generating thumbnail 'DCP_0128--thumb.jpg'
====> executing global rc file
==> directory index generation
generating dirindex dirindex.html
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/bin/curator", line 2721, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/bin/curator", line 2669, in main
    rootdir.visit(walkDirsForIndex)
  File "/usr/local/bin/curator", line 756, in visit
    functor(self)
  File "/usr/local/bin/curator", line 2668, in walkDirsForIndex
    os.symlink(rel(dir._pagefn, dir._path), lnfn)
OSError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted

Why is the operation not permitted, just because the directory is in
an smbmounted drive? This does not look like an error in the curator code
because it works just fine on the same files transfered to a directory
local to the linux machine.

Thanks in advance for any insight/ideas here...

Thomas



From spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu  Tue Jun  3 10:05:07 2003
From: spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu (Chris Fonnesbeck)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 07:05:07 -0700
Subject: python-mode on OS X
References: <c3835e5f.0306021726.eda1ba6@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054607884.23494.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c3835e5f.0306030605.e7c0144@posting.google.com>

David Goodger <goodger at python.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.1054607884.23494.python-list at python.org>...
> Chris Fonnesbeck wrote:
> > I put the following in .emacs to load python-mode on startup:
> > 
> > '(autoload 'python-mode "python-mode" "Python editing mode" t)
> 
>    ^ is this quote the culprit, or a typo?  Shouldn't be there.
> 
> -- David Goodger

Well, if I delete it, I get a similar but different message:

An error has occurred while loading `/Users/chris/.emacs':

Wrong type argument: symbolp, ("python" . python-mode)

Here is my .emacs:

(custom-set-variables
  ;; custom-set-variables was added by Custom.
  ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful.
  ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance.
  ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right.
  (setq auto-mode-alist
      (cons '("\\.py$" . python-mode) auto-mode-alist))
  (setq interpreter-mode-alist
      (cons '("python" . python-mode)
            interpreter-mode-alist))
  (autoload 'python-mode "python-mode" "Python editing mode" t))
(custom-set-faces
  ;; custom-set-faces was added by Custom.
  ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful.
  ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance.
  ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right.
 )

TIA,
C.



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Wed Jun  4 11:35:33 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed,  4 Jun 2003 08:35:33 -0700
Subject: a wierd parameter passing behavior
Message-ID: <1054740933.3ede11c524b72@mcherm.com>

thomas writes:
> I think it is better coding style to use append() than the
> plus operator on lists. 

Actually, it's not better coding style any more than using "x * 2"
is better coding style than "x + 3" ... they do different
things (well, unless x is 6).

Performing "myList.append('x')" changes the list referred to by
the variable myList. Executing the expression "myList + ['x']"
has no affect on the list referred to by the variable myList, but
it DOES create a NEW list which is based on that list.

This line:
    myList.append('x')  # line 1
and this one:
    myList = myList + ['x']  # line 2

do different things. For one thing, if any other references 
exist to the list "myList" is bound to, then they will see changes
when line 1 is executed, but won't see changes when line 2 is
run. For another thing, executing line 1 probably won't allocate
new memory (if there's space to extend the list in place), but
executing line 2 will *definitely* allocate new memory. Another
minor detail is that id(myList) will be unchanged by line 1 and
will be changed by line 2. All of these things are related, and
they make sense when you realize that line 1 modifies the list
in place and line 2 makes a new list.

There's nothing confusing at all until you try executing THIS:
    myList += ['x']   # line 3
Once upon a time, Python didn't have the augmented assignment
statements (the +=, -=, *=, etc). Back in those days, people
had to be very explicit about whether they wanted to modify
in place (line 1) or create a new object (line 2). But lots of
folks came from C or Java and griped about not having the 
augmented assignments. They were thinking mostly about simple
types like numbers or strings. In Python, these are immutable...
so code gets written like this:
    myInteger = myInteger + 3   # just like line 2
but you can't write this:
    myInteger.increment_in_place(3)   # this line doesn't work!
because integers don't have any methods for changing them in
place. So with immutable objects, there's one unambiguous
meaning for "x += y"... the make-a-new-object one (line 2).

Guido was very reluctant, but eventually he gave in and added
augmented assignment to the language. In the case of immutable
types, it was obvious what the augmented assignment should do,
but in the case of mutable types (like lists) there were the
two choices... should it change things in place, or should it
create a new object. Since new objects are created for immutable
types, consistancy suggests that it should do the same for
mutable objects, but the problem is, that's almost never what
you actually want! For lists, particularly long lists, executing
line 2 can take hundreds of times (or more!) longer than executing
line 1. And _IF_ (it's a big if) "myList" is the ONLY reference
to that object, then the two are "pretty much" equivalent.

So Guido invoked "practicality beats purity", and declared that
for mutable types (particularly lists), the augmented assignments
would mutate in place (where possible), but for immutable types
it would create new objects. The result is that code using "+="
on lists runs enormously faster, but that unfortunately people
like Torvo Sollazzo occasionally get bit by this unexpected difference.

-- Michael Chermside







From ray at rays-web.com  Fri Jun 13 04:43:50 2003
From: ray at rays-web.com (Ray Smith)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 01:43:50 -0700
Subject: long-term release schedule?
References: <mailman.1054692908.26987.python-list@python.org> <5654fff9.0306112203.6aa1ef99@posting.google.com> <3EE874F2.4042B9E4@engcorp.com> <5654fff9.0306121621.136c8568@posting.google.com> <3EE93161.1DD519B@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <5654fff9.0306130043.5e8e641a@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3EE93161.1DD519B at engcorp.com>...
> Ray Smith wrote:
> > The worrying aspect is that Python (or any development tool a company uses)
> > becomes unsupported and "no one" is around (paid or unpaid) to continue
> > development.
> 
> But *why* would a company need to have Python development continue?
> Is this hypothetical company for some reason depending on _future_
> enhancements to the language?  What damage would result to that 
> company or its products or tools based on Python if Python development
> were to freeze at the current level?

That was my actual question ... if Python devlopment stopped right now
(with the odd bug fix) what would it actually mean to developers using Python??
I suspect not much since the core is so solid, as long as the external 
libraries that are used to connect Python to other technologies exist then
"all"? tasks should still be achivable.
 

> Feel free to contact me by mail if you have specific questions I might
> be able to answer about this sort of thing.  We adopted Python exclusively
> about three years ago and I have a variety of experiences with its 
> applicability in a corporate environment (non IT though... but R&D).

Thanks for the offer Peter,

I'm about half way through re-writting a small system in Python and estimate 
it will be about 1/25th the size (line count) of the original and giving more 
features and "hopefully" less bugs.  
The old system was designed poorly but that just makes my new Python system 
look better!!! :)
I'm doing this outside of work hours and will present it to management as an 
example of what can be done.
I'll do some broader research for this presentation such languages features,
avialable libraries, case studies and the usual "Open Source means choice" type
of arguments.  I'll have this ready in about a month.
 
 
Thanks for everyone's feedback.

Regards,

Ray Smith



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sat Jun  7 14:27:34 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 12:27:34 -0600
Subject: finding origin of names
In-Reply-To: <u1d6KXAi7h4+Ew2$@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>; from robin@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk on Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 06:20:34PM +0100
References: <gozptIAYyc4+EwH6@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.1055004899.24832.python-list@python.org> <u1d6KXAi7h4+Ew2$@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20030607122734.B1248@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Robin Becker:
  [...]
> OK I'm being stupid we're importing these things for their value. So I
> really mean to find the original use of the value.
> 
> For the value 1 it's not that obvious, but suppose I create
> 
> #a.py
> red = Color(1,0,0)
> 
> #b.py
> from a import red
> 
> then in derived modules I have a choice to import red from either a or
> b.  Since the b name is imported from a, we can regard the b name as
> derivative for these kinds of constant and therefore prefer to import
> from a (the source of the definition).

Still puzzled, I'm afraid.

If you're writing a module, I see that there can be reasons for
importing an object from one module instead of another, even if
the object is the same in both cases.  In this scenario you just
read the source and/or documentation, and decide yourself where to
import from.

But if you're obtaining a reference to an object on the fly, what
does it matter whether you get it via a.red or b.red, provided
that you get the right object?

And all in all, if you need to look up colours by name, why not
just use a dict mapping from colour name to colour object, rather
than trolling through modules?

My feeling at this point (and with only a limited understanding of
your question) is that the idea of "original defining module" is
not one which Python really acknowledges, and that framing your
problem in such terms will be fighting against the language.

That said, it does occur to me that you could play some tricks
with your own classes:

    # foo.py
    import sys
    class Color(object):
        def __init__(self, r, g, b):
            self.definingmodule = sys._getframe(1).f_globals['__name__']
            # ...
    red = Color(1, 0, 0)

    # bar.py
    from foo import *
    green = Color(0, 1, 0)

    >>> import bar
    >>> bar.green.definingmodule
    'bar'
    >>> bar.red.definingmodule
    'foo'

This is very hackish, though.  I'd first recommend looking for a
more straightforward solution for the underlying problem, whatever
that might be.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                             staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I may be wrong but I'm positive."  -- _Friday_, Robert A. Heinlein




From mleeds at mlp.com  Thu Jun  5 17:43:37 2003
From: mleeds at mlp.com (Leeds, Mark)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:43:37 -0400
Subject: another question
Message-ID: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7AFA@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>

i'm sorry to bother everyone again :
 
i am a novice at python and i am
reading a file into memory
using the command
file.readlines.
 
the file has spaces between the elements but the delimiter that really
separates
them  is a "|".
 
so i wrote the subroutine below.
 
def getData(file):
 
    anyFile=open(file,'r')
    anyStuff=anyfile.readlines()
    anyFile.close
 
    anydata=[]
 
    for line in anyStuff:
        if not line:
            continue
        line=string.strip(line)
        anydata.append(string.split(line))
    return(anydata)
 
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
 
in the main, i have
 
textfile=("xxx.dat")
datafile=getData(textfile))
print(datafile)
 
the problem is that i don't know how to get rid of the
"|" characters so these show up in the output.
 
if i use a parameter in string.split, then i will end up with spaces
which i don't want either.
 
i guess the question is how to get rid of both the spaces
and the "|" characters. 
 
                                                thanks.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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From ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk  Thu Jun  5 14:56:05 2003
From: ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 19:56:05 +0100
Subject: Repeated assignments - a more elegant approach (newbie)
References: <67e2f348.0306050942.62aa6074@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3edf924b$0$45181$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>

ivannaz wrote:

> Suppose I have the following code:
> 
> if a > 0:
>     mna += a
>     cnta += 1
> if b > 0:
>     mnb += b
>     cntb += 1
> if c > 0:
>     mnc += c
>     cntc += 1
> ... and so on, until 'z'
> 
> Is there a better way to write it? The idea would be something like
> (which obviously does not work):
> 
> for (var, mean, count) in [(a, mna, cnta), (b, mnb, cntb), (c, mnc,
> cntc)...]:
>     if var > 0:
>         mean += var
>         count += 1
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ivan

If you really, really want to do it like that then...

for var in [chr(x) for x in range(97, 123)]:
    if eval(var) > 0:
        exec "mn"+var+"+="+var
        exec "cnt"+var+"+=1"

is a bit shorter, but still not very nice. I'd go with David Eppstein said
if at all possible.

Anyway, hope this helps,
Andrew Wilkinson

P.S.
I didn't actually run all of that, I couldn't be bothered setting up that
many variables :-) Should be pretty close to runnable though...



From bh at intevation.de  Mon Jun 16 08:48:21 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 14:48:21 +0200
Subject: Question about Python-Grammar
References: <peerev0nik342gr7i1ecfjudm8oqobmf05@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6qk7bmnq7e.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Roman Meisl <roman at syxx.de> writes:

[about Python's Grammar]
> import_stmt: 'import' dotted_as_name 
> dotted_as_name: dotted_name [NAME NAME]
> dotted_name: NAME ('.' NAME)*
> 
> which makes following import-statement possible:
> import NAME NAME NAME
> 
> What's the sense of this statement? Or is this an error in the
> grammar?
> 
> (Even the compiler (2.2.2) claims a syntax error when parsing 
> "import mod1 mod2 mod3" )

But not for "import mod1 as mod2". 

The "as" in there is not a keyword and thus can't be in the Grammar
explicitly AFAIK so constraining "import NAME NAME NAME" to cases where
the second NAME is "as" is done by the compiler.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Jun 10 01:29:13 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 07:29:13 +0200
Subject: read a unicode file
References: <mailman.1055173457.5922.python-list@python.org> <3EE4B35D.DE6D5012@hotmail.com> <3EE4D96F.5C89843C@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <m3u1ayijpy.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:

> So, a question: Why would the 'utf-16' codec not support readline?
> Looking at the 'Lib\encodings\utf-16.py' module gives no hints. Is
> there a problem with knowing what constitutes a line ending in that
> encoding?

The problem is that the codec's .readline usually invokes the
.readline of the underlying stream. For UTF-16, this fails, since
.readline of the stream sometimes will break at the next \n character,
which means that there might be a dangling second byte (which might
not be NUL, in which case .readline has misinterpreted the \n byte).
On other systems, .readline may fail to find a \r\n sequence (since
there are interspersed NUL bytes), or it may find a ?\r\n sequence,
but that would not be a line break, but the character U+2573.

So for UTF-16, the codec would have to read ahead, to find the line
ends, and it would have to take into account the line breaking
conventions. It then may happen that it has read more data than
desired, so it also needs to implement buffering.

Nobody has yet contributed code to do so.

Regards,
Martin




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jun 26 23:48:21 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:48:21 -0700
Subject: stupid question about os.listdir
References: <MTNKa.2930$BM.1845254@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <slrnbfnc0n.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <wwOKa.3311$BM.1852863@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <slrnbfndia.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <xOOKa.3559$BM.1856894@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3EFBBE85.4EFA39F1@alcyone.com>

Jason Kratz wrote:

> aha!   I found it!   its the call to os.path.isdir.   I'm not passing
> it
> a real pathname....just a string.  I need to set my entries in my dir
> list as real pathnames (ie: with the slashes)...not just the text.
> question is how ;)

A pathname _is_ just a string.  Presumably the problem is that you're
getting the results of os.listdir, which are just the names of the
contents of the directory, not the relative paths to them:

max at oxygen:~/tmp% mkdir subdir
max at oxygen:~/tmp% touch subdir/a subdir/b subdir/c
max at oxygen:~/tmp% ls subdir
a  b  c
max at oxygen:~/tmp% python
Python 2.2.3 (#1, May 31 2003, 21:31:33) 
[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import os
>>> os.listdir('subdir')
['a', 'b', 'c']

So just join the paths:

>>> for f in os.listdir('subdir'):
...  p = os.path.join('subdir', f)
...  print p, os.path.isfile(p)                  
... 
subdir/a 1
subdir/b 1
subdir/c 1

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ ike anybody, I would like to live a long life.
\__/  Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.



From palaste at cc.helsinki.fi  Wed Jun  4 09:11:28 2003
From: palaste at cc.helsinki.fi (Joona I Palaste)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 13:11:28 GMT
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com> <slrnbdrq61.o40.philh@cabalamat.uklinux.net>
Message-ID: <bbkr60$re5$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

phil hunt <philh at cabalamat.org> scribbled the following
on comp.lang.c:
> On 4 Jun 2003 02:59:01 -0700, Pupppy Wizzard <PupppyWizzard at glay.org> wrote:
>>Hi. I am an old school programmer looking to modernize my skill set. I
>>want to focus on one new language. Should I choose:
>>
>>VB
>>VB.net
>>C#
>>C++
>>Python
>>Smalltalk
>>J#
>>JScript.net
>>or Java?

> INTERCAL!!!!!

If you ever come across a DWIM implementation, go for that. It's the
best language for any programming job.

-- 
/-- Joona Palaste (palaste at cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste       W++ B OP+                     |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"Life without ostriches is like coffee with milk."
   - Mika P. Nieminen



From usenet at soraia.com  Tue Jun  3 23:55:54 2003
From: usenet at soraia.com (Joe Francia)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 03:55:54 GMT
Subject: Anyone using Python to access PHPbb's MySQL database on a web
 server?
In-Reply-To: <EpcDa.2207$xM5.2049592@news2.news.adelphia.net>
References: <EpcDa.2207$xM5.2049592@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <e5eDa.1158833$uT2.178931@news.easynews.com>

Robert Oschler wrote:
> I want to read/write the MySQL database associated with the data belonging
> to the PHPbb forum running on my web site (which I administer, site and
> PHPbb forum).  My web site is hosted with a good web hosting company, but
> that means that the computer is not onsite.  Also the account I have does
> not allow for telnet or ssh session access.  I can run PHP scripts without
> problem, but not Python scripts or the mod_python module.
> 
> I want to run Python programs locally on my Win2k box to read/write the
> PHPbb.MySQL database(s).  I have Python 2.2.x with the venerable WingIDE
> debugger running on my Win2k box.  Has anyone done any Python programming
> like this?   If so, I'd be very interested in what you had to do to get it
> working, especially in the area of any available python libraries/modules to
> help with the MySQL access.
> 

You can use MySQL for Python 
(http://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python), but I'd guess that if 
your hosting provider doesn't allow telnet or ssh, they probably don't 
allow remote access to the MySQL server, either.  You may want to just 
install phpMyAdmin instead (or get a different host - I've used 
www.phpwebhosting.com before, they were always good, and allowed Python 
scripts and would sometimes install things if you asked, like mod_python.)

jf




From rogue9 at ntlworld.com  Sat Jun  7 12:37:21 2003
From: rogue9 at ntlworld.com (Rogue9)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 17:37:21 +0100
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01>
Message-ID: <3ee214c5@shknews01>

On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 14:21:47 +0100, Rogue9 wrote:

> Pardon me but could anyone enlighten me if python2.2 has a math function
> to call to do factorials of integers?If not then is there a code snippet
> for doing such a thing available?I tried to write some code for this
> myself but with little success.
> Thanks
> Lol
Thank you,everyone,that is just the ticket.I?m not too bothered with speed
as yet so easy to read code is better for me.
Again,many thanks
Lol



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jun 22 15:24:53 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:24:53 +0200
Subject: "eval" function
In-Reply-To: <s6nJa.8480$Hb.147731@news4.e.nsc.no>
References: <s6nJa.8480$Hb.147731@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <3ef60282$0$49099$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Eirik wrote:
> How can I do what I would do like this:
> 
> set a 12
> set b 144
> eval a*a == b
> 
> in Tcl?
> --

I don't understand the question (please rephrase it...).
But the Python equivalent of the three statements above probably is:

a=12
b=144
a*a==b


You could have guessed that, no?

--Irmen




From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Mon Jun  2 08:58:48 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:58:48 +1000
Subject: Passing a pooled database connection down an object model
Message-ID: <gSHCa.242$zb2.12182@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Hi all, im at a bit of a freeze at the moment as I am unsure if my theory
(the code has not been written yet) is correct.

I have an app server that has a singleton database class (aggregation). The
database class creates 10 connections and places them in a list.
I have a function called getFreeConnection, this will pop and return the
connection, decreasing the list by 1. The appserver is using pythons
standard ThreadingTCPServer class, I have my own handler class which will
lookup based on the xml request the appropriate management class to forward
it too.

For example if the xml request is for Client then it will dispatch it to x =
ClientManager(xmlData, dbCon). I need to make sure that each thread is using
its own database connection otherwise the mysql server is going to have a
stroke !

I am planning on passing it down to each subclass (not inherited i.e has-a)
to ensure that the same connection is been used throughout the thread, e.g
in ClientManager might have instance of Client created on startup eg x =
Client.Client(dbCon)

It is probably not easy for you to see what im trying to do without code, so
apologies, but has anyone else done this before and if my methodology is
flawed please say criticise the hell out of it :-)

Which leads me too ask: If one uses inheritence then one can simply access a
dbConnection attribute via super but if aggregation (has a) is used how does
the sub class access its initialiser class.

eg:

import client

class ClientManager:

    def __init__(self, dbCon=None):

        self.con = dbCon
        self.client = Client.Client()

Now inside client lets say I have a function

Class Client:

    def getClient(id):
        ??how do I access ClientManager's dbCon attrbute ?
         do I simply pass it in the constructor ?
            e.g. self.client = Client.Client(self.con)

Thanks a mill

Regards

Graeme






From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun  4 17:24:29 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:24:29 +0200
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
In-Reply-To: <bbl6n9$mch$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1054718112.3943.python-list@python.org> <bbl189$fs9$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <bbl6n9$mch$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20030604212429.GB18840@nl.linux.org>

Aahz schreef op woensdag  4 juni om 18:32:28 +0000:
> No, Guido will insist on requiring a definition of a set function that
> raises an exception if you want to make it read-only.

Sure? That's not the current behaviour... It sound reasonable to me though.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
220. If he had opened a tumor with the operating knife, and put out his
eye, he shall pay half his value.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Sun Jun  8 14:14:23 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 11:14:23 -0700
Subject: solving the metaclass conflict
References: <2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7@posting.google.com> <25b5433d.0306071443.63b27df6@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055044454.21616.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0306081014.6fa652bb@posting.google.com>

mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<mailman.1055044454.21616.python-list at python.org>...
> |* Handle multi-level metaclasses (e.g. metametaclasses)
> 
> This I don't get at all.  I've never used a metametaclass (and doubt I
> will).  But even assuming I did, the type() of a metaclass resolves to
> such a metametaclass, and the proposed code should work fine.
> 
> Is something else intended here?

Just guessing.  A has metaclass X which has metaclass P.  B has
metaclass Y which has metaclass Q.  You want to create class C(A,B). 
Your recipe tries to create class Z(X,Y) to serve as the metaclass of
C, but it can't do that because X and Y have different metaclasses
themselves.


-- 
CARL BANKS



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jun 25 09:38:16 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:38:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Advice for developing in python with Microsoft Office?
References: <c6f263dc.0306250519.12526baa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93A594AD296C3duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

jflanigan at netzero.net (jose flanigan) wrote in 
news:c6f263dc.0306250519.12526baa at posting.google.com:

> I'm using python to shuffle data in and out of Microsoft PowerPoint
> and Microsoft Excel and create and transfer graphs. The problem I'm
> having is that there are so many methods and properties built into the
> PowerPoint and Excel objects. I have been looking at the PowerPoint
> object documentation built into the Visual Basic development
> environment, but that's not much help. It tells you what's there, but
> not how to do specific things with the object.
> 
> Can anybody point me to some resources or advice on getting through
> this? I'm convinced that these Microsoft objects can be useful if I
> could just figure out how to use them correctly.
> 
Have you used the macro recorder built into Excel and Powerpoint? If you do 
whatever manipulation you want manually, it'll give you some verbose 
vbscript that you can use as the basis for working out which objects and 
methods you want.

Otherwise you could try googling. http://www.mvps.org/skp/vba.htm looks to 
have quite a lot of Powerpoint vba examples.


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Thu Jun 12 16:07:11 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 20:07:11 GMT
Subject: random picks from a list
References: <3ee8dbd6@shknews01>
Message-ID: <P35Ga.141887$h42.111120@twister.nyc.rr.com>

If we help you, do we get to share in the winnings? :)
BTW, I am sure that you know that what you are doing is mathematically
unsound, right?

--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]


"Rogue9" <rogue9 at ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:3ee8dbd6 at shknews01...
> Hi All,
> I?m working on a program for lottery analysing and need to generate
> random numbers from a filtered list of numbers i.e. I have reduced the
> likely ?winning? numbers to a smaller pool and have them in a list. How
> do i use the random funtion in Python to pick random numbers from this
> list?Is this the use of the seq argument in the random function?
> The documentation does not cover the use of all the arguments available
> for this function and my attempts to use if have been a failure.
> Guidance would be very much welcome Pythonistas,
> Thanks
> Lol McBride





From dave at boost-consulting.com  Tue Jun 17 21:22:18 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:22:18 -0400
Subject: Snapshottable re-iterable iterators
References: <mailman.1055853029.14444.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uhe6o6uyd.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Beni Cherniavsky <cben at techunix.technion.ac.il> writes:

> From time to time I wanted to iterate the same iterator more than once
> - but destructive iterators don't allow this.  So I wrote a class for
> wrapping destructive iterators.  It gives you an iterable, whose
> __iter__ goes over the values of the underlying iterator - but those
> are only requested once.  To make it fancy, I made sure that when you
> release the iterable and iterate with all your iterators on it past
> any point, no refernces remain to values older than it (I used a
> linked list, bulit from two-item lists).
>
> Then I thought that I do not want this multiple-iteration ability
> always from the start.  I wanted (and built) an iterator that could be
> "snapshotted"  at any moment - and the "snapshot" is a new iterator,
> returning the same values from this point in time.  It's similar in
> spirit to the `fork` system call.  Makes it easy to e.g. implement
> lookahead on a stream - you fork the stream iterator, iterate on the
> "child" stream and then can continue with the
>
> Looking for a good method name for this snapshotting, I thought of
> `__iter__` - that's where I ask for your comments.  I got an iterator
> that is destructive in the sense that calling ``.next()`` on it
> advances it irreversibly - but it is an iterable at the same time and
> calling ``.__iter__()`` on it creates a new iterator, with the same
> future.

This is a very nice solution to a problem I once wrestled with... if
you don't mind the memory cost, of course!

> So the question is: is it a good idea to violate the iterator protocol
> in this way - being an iterator but returning a "copy" of self from
> `__iter__` rather than self?  On one hand, it seems cute.  On the
> other, it makes it hard to avoid the forking when you don't want it.

When don't you want it (other than to save memory)?

After all, normally, once you execute:

      for x in iterable:
          ....

iterable is thereafter useless.  I think semantically, most code would
never be able to detect the difference.

> If I'll go with another method rather than `__iter__`, the best
> alternatives seem to be `copy` and `fork`.

I think you've done exactly the right thing.  Beautiful idea!

Incidentally, Andrew Koenig once invented a similar iterator over
linked lists for C++.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From mvs2 at linuxmail.org  Tue Jun 10 16:38:37 2003
From: mvs2 at linuxmail.org (marcus)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 13:38:37 -0700
Subject: Iteration through a text file.
References: <1f9c7669.0306041001.e5b72ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1f9c7669.0306101238.235d6726@posting.google.com>

Just wanted to say "thank you" to all who replied.  I've been out, so
I haven't gotten back to this particular problem, yet.

I'll be sure to give all of your suggestions a try within the next day
or so, and post how I fared.

Thanks again Oh, and David, no worries on accidentally emailing me, or
calling me a 'newbie.'  First, that's obviously accurate, and
secondly, I've been called much worse.

:)



From bh at intevation.de  Thu Jun  5 07:18:22 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 13:18:22 +0200
Subject: Efficient data flow between orthogonal C extensions?
References: <slrnbdsl66.21h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no> <87el29rpmv.fsf@smtp.gsi.de> <M75SJKAOev3+EwLv@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6qfzmokc1t.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> >mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) writes:
> >
> >> I'm about to write a component-based data flow program, and I'm
> >> pondering the design, partly when it comes to efficiency. Basically,
> >> the system will instantiate a set of objects, set up in a directed
> >> network-like structure, and they will pass data among themselves in a
> >> stream-like fashion.
[...]
> I believe Bernhard Herzog's Sketch drawing editor does stream like
> transfers between extensions.

Indeed. It's something similar to postscript's filters, that is file
like objects that transform data on the fly. The stream filters are in
the Filters subdirectory in Sketch's sources. One place where it's used
in another C module outside of the filter implementation itself in
Sketch/Modules/pstokenize.c .

I'm not sure how similar it is to what Magnus wants to do, but at least
the C-API handling might be an example.

The basic approach taken to communicate a C-API from one dynamically
loaded module to another is that the streamfilter module as an attribute
called Filter_Functions which holds a PyCObject containing a pointer to
a struct with function pointers. The pstokenize module imports the
streamfilter module, extracts the struct and then calls the functions.

The approach is basically the same as in cStringIO in the Python sources
(see Include/cStringIO.h and Modules/cStringIO.c. PyGTK also does
somethng like this.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Thu Jun 26 22:43:11 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 12:33:11 +0950
Subject: stupid question about os.listdir
References: <MTNKa.2930$BM.1845254@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <xoOKa.3259$BM.1850510@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbfncvf.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:57:33 GMT, Jason Kratz wrote:
> Here is more clarification.   Here is my script called backup.py

Again, I'll ask you to reduce this to a single, isolated incident of
os.listdir() that doesn't act as you expect.

If the failure *depends* on the rest of the script, then it's more
complex than "os.listdir() doesn't list the current directory".  It may,
in fact, have nothing to do with os.listdir() at all.

Reducing the test case to a single os.listdir() instance will aid you as
well as us, since you'll be able to have a much better understanding of
what's going on.

-- 
 \     "I was sad because I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no |
  `\    feet. So I said, 'Got any shoes you're not using?'"  -- Steven |
_o__)                                                           Wright |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From kiko at async.com.br  Sat Jun 28 22:24:48 2003
From: kiko at async.com.br (Christian Reis)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 23:24:48 -0300
Subject: ExtensionClass/Persistent and __cmp__ is tricky
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKECIEMAB.tim@zope.com>
References: <20030628025724.GA9873@async.com.br> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKECIEMAB.tim@zope.com>
Message-ID: <20030629022448.GH4126@async.com.br>

On Sat, Jun 28, 2003 at 09:36:27PM -0400, Tim Peters wrote:
> >     >>> class Foo(Persistent):
> >     ...    def __cmp__(self, other):
> >     ...     print "Hi there"
> >     ...     return cmp(self, other)
> >     ...
> 
> This doesn't make much sense:  it's defining __cmp__ (indirectly) in terms
> of __cmp__, so it's a recursive mess.

You're right; time for the paper bag.

> >     >>> f = Foo()
> >     >>> f < 1
> 
> It also doesn't make much sense to compare a Foo against an integer.

Maybe not, but it does work for `normal' instances. Should I raise a
TypeError instead in my __cmp__() definition?

I'm unsure of the `correct' semantics here, more than anything.

> >     Hi there [ repeated 21 times ]
> 
> Don't you also see 0 at the end here?
> 
> >     >>> f > 1
> >     Hi there [ repeated 21 times ]
> 
> And don't you also see 0 at the end here?

Yes, these are fine, though the 21 calls had me a bit confused.

> >     >>> 1 < f
> >     0
> >     >>> 1 > f
> >     1

These are the ones I wanted to point out -- their results don't agree
with the values above: f < 1 and 1 < f can't be false simultaneously
unless f == 1 :-)

But my real gripe, actually, was that these didn't call __cmp__(). Now
that I've spent a few more hours on it, I see that Foo types are being
coerced into integers, and that's related to the other `problem' I
reported today.

> > Am I understanding this correctly?
> 
> I don't know -- you haven't said what your understanding is <wink>.

It's not very deep, you've noticed. But I've worried enough over the
matter to understand things a bit further (I had ignored the recursive
call to __cmp__, though; I thought I would have gotten a RuntimeError
there, but I guess not).

> > It seems you can't compare ExtensionClass with basic types; in Python
> > 2.1.3 at least it appears to me that try_3way_compare doesn't want to
> > call tp_compare on the second instance because it's not a PyInstance.
> 
> Possibly so.  I don't think anyone really understands the details of
> ExtensionClass except for Jim (Fulton), and his understanding was fresh
> years ago -- ExtensionClass isn't part of Python, it's part of Zope.

Yes, but it's a fundamental part of the ZODB, which is what I'm
interested in.

> > PS: The interesting part is that it seems that comparing lists *does*
> > work:
> 
> It remains unclear what "work" means to you -- honest!  I can't guess
> what you *expect* any of these things to do.  I don't expect anything
> other than that, e.g., 1<f deliver the same result as f>1.  It

Precisely! And that is *not* true for the integers above! :-) 

I expected consistency when comparing with basic types; sorry if I
wasn't clear enough. However, if the correct policy is to raise a
TypeError, that's fine (and simpler) with me. 

(Unless, of course, we have a coercion problem 8)

> doesn't, so I suppose there's a bug there.  I don't also assume that
> it's worth trying to fix ExtensionClass, though (bang for the buck --
> low (if any) benefit, probably high cost).

One benefit is that it makes things we take for granted with `real'
instances work as expected, which saves us time fussing over details
when trying to get the bigger picture. Because:

> >     >>> [] > f
> >     Hi there [ repeated 21 times ]
> >     0
> >
> > Which means I'm almost safe with using PersistentList, at any rate
> > (which uses its List comparison).

Why am I bothering about this: as I could see it, PersistentList does
cmp() based on its `data' list member. I assumed that comparisons
between lists would be done based on cmp()s on what they contained. To
be safe, as per your suggestion, I reckoned __cmp__() should be
consistent when comparing with other types, and that's where this all
started. It's showing to be a bit embarassing but highly enlightening
(as all newbie things are).

Thanks for the explanation on NESTING_LIMIT. I've already gone back to
the task at hand, but I'm still a bit unhappy because I don't know what
a `carefully written' __cmp__() should do.

Take care,
--
Christian Reis, Senior Engineer, Async Open Source, Brazil.
http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 261 2331 | NMFL




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jun  9 09:44:40 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 06:44:40 -0700
Subject: solving the metaclass conflict
References: <2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7@posting.google.com> <25b5433d.0306071443.63b27df6@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055044454.21616.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0306080356.600320e2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055112100.10468.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306090544.1ed2c7f6@posting.google.com>

mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<mailman.1055112100.10468.python-list at python.org>...
> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote previously:
> |> Of course:
> |>     M = _generatemetaclass((),(A,B,C),0)
> |>     #-> TypeError: MRO conflict among bases B, C, A
> |> Which is a bad thing.  Is that the real concern?
>  
> |Of course not, since this is an issue with the C3 method resolution
> |order (http://www.python.org/2.3/mro.html) which in principle has
> |nothing to do with metaclasses.
> 
> Yes and no.  I know that MRO conflicts don't have anything to do with
> metaclasses per se.  But if a version of _generatemetaclass() happened
> to remove all the extraneous superclasses from the metabases tuple, that
> would make many (all?) MRO conflicts do away.
> 

Does not smell good to me... MRO conflicts are good, they forbid the
programmer to write ambiguos hierarchies. 

> I think removing those extra superclasses would be a good thing.  But I
> don't feel strongly; and there might be some reason I have overlooked
> why it wouldn't be so good.
> 
> |class C(object,type): pass
> |gives a MRO conflict (under Python 2.3).
> 
> Hmmm... actually, the question never came to my mind.  I'm not sure what
> my first guess would have been--especially since, as you hint, Python
> 2.2 behaves differently.  Just a little more for readers:
> 
>   class C(type, object): pass
> 
> Is perfectly happy under both 2.2 and 2.3.  Again, obvious to Michele,
> but probably not to some other readers.
> 

Not obvious at all! I was bitten by this, even *after* having written
http://www.python.org/2.3/mro.html and having explained there why
right triangular diagrams like
                      
                      B 
                      | \
                      |  B1 
                      | /
                      C 
                   
are bad. The C3 MRO is unfortunately not intuitive, even having experience
with it. But I don't know of any other better alternative.


                               Michele



From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Thu Jun  5 17:30:16 2003
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 21:30:16 -0000
Subject: Twisted Panglossia
References: <u65nk5x8p.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com> <mailman.1054749788.8638.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1054830612.3231.python-list@python.org> <w/43+kKkXUlb092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list@python.org> <slrnbdv8vl.ktj.ramen@lackingtalent.com> <Z2ODa.4570$IR1.540856@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbdvdmr.ktj.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <Z2ODa.4570$IR1.540856 at news20.bellglobal.com>, Sean Ross wrote:
>> A search for "Pollyannaishness" on Google returns 3 results. Merriam
>> Webster offers no definition. Care to elucidate this obfuscation? =)
>>
> Pollyanna
> SYLLABICATION: Pol?ly?an?na
> NOUN: A person regarded as being foolishly or blindly optimistic.
> ETYMOLOGY: After the heroine of the novel Pollyanna, by Eleanor Hodgman
> Porter (1868-1920), American writer.
> 
> from uk.culture.language.english
> "Eleanor Porter's "Pollyanna" describes a sentimental optimist."
> 
> "A wide-eyed (meaning naive or child-like) optimist"

Thanks. ;)
Dave



From tony at pc-tony.com  Thu Jun  5 04:45:13 2003
From: tony at pc-tony.com (Tony)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 01:45:13 -0700
Subject: Reading in NT Variables / Login Script
References: <52acbff9.0306040157.4bbaff6b@posting.google.com> <MPG.1947a861dc883f29989680@news2.atlantic.net>
Message-ID: <52acbff9.0306050045.16f5655f@posting.google.com>

c42 <nospam at nospam.net> wrote in message news:<MPG.1947a861dc883f29989680 at news2.atlantic.net>...
> What variables are you looking for?
> 
%USERNAME% in particualr.  But others would be useful.

> 
> In article <52acbff9.0306040157.4bbaff6b at posting.google.com>, tony at pc-
> tony.com says...
> > Hi Guys, 
> > 
> > Apologies for asking such a dumb question, but I have become a little
> > stuck.
> > I am re-writing out NT Logon Scripts, they are currently very
> > cumbersome, and to be quite frank crap...
> > 
> > I am need to use several of the NT variables, and use these at several
> > stages, within the script.
> > 
> > Can anybody please point me in the right direction??
> > 
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Tony
> >

Cheers,
Tony



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sat Jun  7 12:59:33 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:59:33 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>; from ed@membled.com on Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 12:26:04AM +0100
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <20030607105933.A739@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ed Avis:
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:
  [...]
> >The behavior is exactly as advertised: it turns an expression into a
> >function 'on the fly'.  Some people think this covers enough useful
> >cases to offset the nuisance of having it in the language.  Others
> >don't, and would like it removed in Python 3.
> 
> It's a pity that lambda is viewed as a nuisance rather than as an
> opportunity.  If it were made more general, and perhaps if the scoping
> rules were changed to permit closures, [...]

We already have closures, don't we?

    >>> def f(x):
    ...     def g(y):
    ...         return x + y
    ...     return g
    ... 
    >>> q = f(3)
    >>> q(4)
    7

Or do you want to be able to rebind names in outer scopes?

> [...] it could add a lot of power to
> the language (by which I mean permit some programs to be expressed
> more clearly and concisely).  The current implementation of lambda is
> a bit awkward, but that shouldn't speak against the idea of anonymous
> functions and anonymous code references.

Is anonymity really the point?  If so, it seems quite a minor one
to me -- it's just not that big a deal to have to name a small
function.  (Where are the complaints about having to name small
classes?)

Moreover, if the act of defining the function does not bind a name
to it, you need to get a reference to it some other way.  The
obvious thing to do is to have the function-defining text be an
expression which evaluates to the function object (so you stick it
in a list or whatever).  That in turn, as Python syntax is now,
entails that it can only contain expressions.

> [...] I can only note that many other
> languages support anonymous functions that can do all that a named
> function can, [...]

Sure; Lisp comes to mind.  But Lisp doesn't use indentation to
delimit blocks, nor does it distinguish between statements and
expressions, so the comparison is uninformative.

Do you have a language in mind which is a better analogue to
Python and could teach us more about these issues?

> [...] and that one possible way to implement lamvda in Python
> would be to turn a lambda-expression into a 'def' internally, with a
> freshly generated name.

That much is clear.  The main problem is syntactic; thus Terry's
suggestion that you produce a grammar rule for your proposal.
(That means BNF, not an informal description such as "anything
that can fit on a line".  Note that you might have to make
substantial changes to the rest of the grammar to obtain a
nonterminal which fits that informal description.)

  [...]
> What is strange is not so much the grammar rule for lambda itself, as
> the dividing line between what is a statement and what an expression.

Fwiw, I agree somewhat with this.  (It just doesn't bother me at
all in practice.)

  [...]
-- 
Steven Taschuk                  staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Telekinesis would be worth patenting."  -- James Gleick




From cswiger at mac.com  Sun Jun 22 02:50:23 2003
From: cswiger at mac.com (Chuck Swiger)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:50:23 -0400
Subject: License Question
In-Reply-To: <3EF54BDF.46423D0A@easystreet.com>
References: <3EF54BDF.46423D0A@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <3EF551AF.9080704@mac.com>

achrist at easystreet.com wrote:
[ ... ]
> License says:
> 
> "3. In the event Licensee prepares a derivative work that is based on
> or incorporates Python 2.2.3 or any part thereof, and wants to make
> the derivative work available to others as provided herein, then
> Licensee hereby agrees to include in any such work a brief summary of
> the changes made to Python 2.2.3."
> 
> I interpret this to mean that a distributed version of a python
> script I write, created with Py2exe or the McMillan installer, 
> since it includes Python is covered by this provision.

That's probably not a correct interpretation.  The above license term would 
apply if you changed Python-2.2.3 itself.  Your python program is yours; it's 
not a derivative work of the Python Software Foundation.

The same idea applies to C code compiled with GCC, et cetera: using a compiler 
or interpreter does not apply the license of that tool onto the code being 
compiled or interpreted.

-- 
-Chuck






From p-abel at t-online.de  Sat Jun 21 15:00:25 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 12:00:25 -0700
Subject: Scrollable Tkinter widget not threadsafe?
References: <13a533e8.0306110037.6611eefa@posting.google.com> <3ef0af9e@andromeda.datanet.hu>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0306211100.7c914e1b@posting.google.com>

abli <abli at freemail.hu> wrote in message news:<3ef0af9e at andromeda.datanet.hu>...
> The exception you get is 
> 
> RuntimeError: Calling Tcl from different appartment
> 
> You have to do all calls to tkinter from one thread. 
> In the example you give, you create the widget, then start a new thread
> which enters mainloop. This means that you try to use two threads to
> communicate with Tkinter, which causes the exception.
> By moving all tkinter calls, i.e. the lines
>   root=Tkinter.Tk()
>   FrameScollTest (root).pack(fill='both',expand=True)
> into show_widget(), it runs fine.
>     
> Of course, this has nothing to do with the type of widget you want to use,
> a Tkinter.Label behaves the same way.
> 
> Abel Daniel

Thanks very much Daniel,
it works as you described.
I had no RuntimeError, only a TK-Window with nothing that
didn't respond. But I think this behavior depends of the
platform, os-version etc.
What remains unclear for me is that I should start a thread
already with the line:

  root=Tkinter.Tk()

Until now I believed entering threading with

  root.mainloop()

because this worked this way, but only without Scrollbars.

Regards
Peter



From kavi_ranjith at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  4 06:33:50 2003
From: kavi_ranjith at yahoo.com (Ranjith Kumar)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 03:33:50 -0700
Subject: Java Class Loading into Jython
References: <28cf7c6f.0305280002.4c76564f@posting.google.com> <oubrxnze1p.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com> <28cf7c6f.0306020524.6a301509@posting.google.com> <ouel2blsc1.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <28cf7c6f.0306040233.8a052ab@posting.google.com>

You are right the <jvm> / classes is in the classpath and are getting
loaded into the classloader of java.

To give some more info, if we place a class < jvm > / classes /
Imported.class and classes directory is in the classpath , the class
gets loaded perfectly.

Thanks 
ranjith 



Ganesan R <rganesan at myrealbox.com> wrote in message news:<ouel2blsc1.fsf at andlx-anamika.cisco.com>...
> >>>>> "Ranjith" == Ranjith Kumar <kavi_ranjith at yahoo.com> writes:
>  
> > Thank you very much. 
> > The problem of class not found occurs in the following case.
>  
> > When I place the class file with the package
> > com.xxx.yyy.Imported.class  under a directory ( which is in the
> > classpath ) and this directory is not the one in which the jvm is
> > running.
>  
> > The same class is loaded when the class is present in the jvm
> > directory.
>  
> > <jvm > / classes / com / xxx / yyy / Imorted   - not loaded
> 
> I am assuming <jvm>/classes in your classpath. Can you check if the class
> loads correctly in java. If it loads correctly in java but you can't load it
> in jython; I'd consider it a bug in jython (unless, you're playing around
> with the classloader).
> 
> Ganesan



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jun 11 18:49:24 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 22:49:24 GMT
Subject: Looking for the greatest negative float value
References: <bc7lvb$gm3$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr> <bc83sm$7ku$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bc8blk$lqu$0@216.39.172.122>

On 11 Jun 2003 20:36:38 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:52:17 +0200, "Gilles Lenfant" <glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I need the same as...
>>
>>import sys
>>negmaxint = - sys.maxint -1
>>
>>... but for float data
>>
>>any hint ?
>>
>
>To get what you want (wyw) maybe you have to compute it. E.g.,
>
> >>> fmin = -1.0
> >>> while 1:
> ...    fnext = fmin*2.0-1.0
> ...    if fnext==fmin: break
> ...    wyw = fmin
> ...    fmin = fnext
> ...
> >>> `wyw`
> '-8.9884656743115795e+307'
>
Actually, that didn't do it right.

Better (depending on timbot's long-float conversion ;-):
(There's may be more bits temporarily internally, but the double
you get back loses them if so. The last n in float(n) has all ones
below the first zero after 53 bits, I believe, but that's not the
number you care about, I think.)

====< maxneg.py >================
def maxneg():
    n=-1L
    try:
        while 1:
            x = float(n*2L)
            n = n*2L
    except:
        pass
    bit = -n/2L
    while bit:
        try:
            float(n-bit)
            n -= bit
        except: pass
        bit = bit/2
    return float(n)

fn = maxneg()
print repr(fn)
print hex(long(fn))
print long(fn)
print hex(((-1L<<53)+1)<<(1024-53))
=================================

[15:45] C:\pywk\clp>maxneg.py
-1.7976931348623157e+308
-0xFFFFFFFFFFFFF80000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000L
-17976931348623157081452742373170435679807056752584499659891747680315726078002853876058955863276
687817154045895351438246423432132688946418276846754670353751698604991057655128207624549009038932
894407586850845513394230458323690322294816580855933212334827479782620414472316873817718091929988
1250404026184124858368
-0xFFFFFFFFFFFFF80000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000L


>I'm not sure how portable this is, but the actual value
>can surely vary according to platform. I suppose you could set up a site-specific
>initialization to put such a value as sys.minfloat if you wanted to.
>
>The timbot will have the best info ;-)
>
Still applies ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jun  1 12:00:11 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Jun 2003 12:00:11 -0400
Subject: medusa http server
References: <bafop3$2lsi$1@news.vol.cz> <bafs5q$c85$1@panix3.panix.com> <mailman.1053946662.10746.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbd7ub$a42$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1053946662.10746.python-list at python.org>,
Moshe Zadka  <m at moshez.org> wrote:
>
>15 minutes?

Yup.  Might have been a few minutes more or less, and that included time
to set up an appropriate document tree.

>In my Twisted Web presentation (to be given in Europython), the first
>slide contains
>
>% mktap web --path=/var/www/htdocs --port=80
>% sudo twisted -f web.tap

Yes, that's all that's required -- but unlike some people, I like to
know what I'm doing, and I tend to go even farther in that direction
when I'm under pressure.  RTFM.

>http://twistedmatrix.com/ --> Documentation/Howtos -> Bringing up a web
>server is the link path that brings to this document. If you have any
>suggestions for making the HOWTO easier to find, easier to read or if
>the examples shown there didn't work as expected, then please let the
>Twisted development team know -- these are bugs, in the code or docs,
>and we would like to know about them so we can fix them.

That's actually a moderately long document.  If you want to emphasize
how quickly a Twisted web server can be deployed, you should create a
separate document called "Fast start: Twisted web server".  That would
include a minimal set of install instructions so that people don't need
to read separate pages.

Note that I'm not complaining about the current setup, but you seem to
imply that it ought to be even easier.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"In many ways, it's a dull language, borrowing solid old concepts from
many other languages & styles:  boring syntax, unsurprising semantics,
few automatic coercions, etc etc.  But that's one of the things I like
about it."  --Tim Peters on Python, 16 Sep 93



From m at moshez.org  Tue Jun 10 10:28:45 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 14:28:45 -0000
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
In-Reply-To: <20030610134923.GE16327@frobozz>
References: <20030610134923.GE16327@frobozz>, <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <20030610142845.4540.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Andrew Bennetts <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> wrote:

>     class EvilProperty(type):
>         def __new__(cls, name, bases, d):
>             return property(d.get('get'), d.get('set'), d.get('del'), d['__doc__'])
>     
>     class C(object):
>         class x:
>             """An evil test property"""
>             __metaclass__ = EvilProperty
>             def get(self):
>                 print 'Getting'
>                 return 1
>             def set(self, value):
>                 print 'Setting to', value

Wouldn't it be more readable (:)) if you did

class _EvilProperty(type):
    ....
class EvilProperty:
    __metaclass__ = _EvilProperty

class C(object):
    class x(EvilProperty):
        def get(self):
            print 'Getting'
            return 1
        def set(self, value):
           print 'Setting to', value

-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Jun 20 08:05:54 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 13:05:54 +0100
Subject: Need help optimizing first script
References: <a34b632.0306190503.32483efe@posting.google.com> <87llvyrn09.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1056068069.13778.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87of0t54yl.fsf@pobox.com>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:
> Quoth John J. Lee:
[...]
> I'll disagree with John here, not about the comment/docstring
> thing, but about this function being otherwise okay.  It seems to
> be following the C convention of returning zero for success and
> nonzero for failure.  I'd suggest letting the exception propagate
> instead, catching it only when you want to do error reporting --
> which is all you use this return value for anyway.  This saves you
> the risk of forgetting to check the return value, which is one of
> the major benefits of exceptions.

Quite right of course, though it's not always a bad thing to have a
function (even one with side-effects) catch an exception and return a
value -- it can make things clearer sometimes.  But in this case,
you're right, no need for it.


John



From just at xs4all.nl  Fri Jun  6 03:54:55 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 09:54:55 +0200
Subject: Using metaclasses to make super more beatiful
References: <mailman.1054831871.3625.python-list@python.org> <just-1DFBB9.20011805062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <20030605191005.GA4816@nl.linux.org> <mailman.1054855311.16882.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-3812A6.09545506062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.1054855311.16882.python-list at python.org>,
 Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:

> > > Tip: create a class C, derived from B, then call f() on an instance of 
> > > C, and see what happens <wink>.
> > 
> > RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
> > 
> > Hmm, I thought I understood it but I apparantly don't, since I don't
> > see why this happens... 

What happens is that your super attr is always the super class of the 
instance, but what you need is the super class of the class in which the 
method is defined.

> I don't get it. What is the essential difference between this and
> Guido's example on http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html#metaclasses?

Guido uses a "private" attribute __super, which does the right thing due 
to name mangling: "__super" gets mangled to "_ClassName__super", so each 
class has its own private __super.

Just



From icarroll at pobox.com  Mon Jun  2 13:13:12 2003
From: icarroll at pobox.com (W Isaac Carroll)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 10:13:12 -0700
Subject: Interactive mode
References: <TXHCa.43127$jp.673066@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3EDB85A8.9090900@pobox.com>

p wrote:
> Pythoneers,
>     At least for the next little while, I'm going to be doing my Python 
> development work on a Mac with OS X 10.2. Since I usually use the 
> commandline (bash) and vim, it really isn't much different from when I 
> use Linux. However, when I'm using interactive mode on this thing, my 
> terminal settings don't allow me to up-arrow for the previous command, 
> and backspace/delete don't backspace or delete.
>     My terminal seems to be set up correctly... but if there's anyone 
> who's run into this before, or if you know of a way for me to map the 
> usual keys to their usual functions, please let me know. I'll just be 
> here R'ing TFM.

Is it actually due to key bindings, or is it perhaps that the GNU 
Readline library is not present on your system? On my Linux system 
(Mandrake mongrel-point-two) when the readline library is not present, 
Python runs just fine, but doesn't have command history or editing. 
Unfortunately, I know very little about OS X, so I couldn't tell you 
where to look for the library.

TTFN





From stephen at thorne.id.au  Sat Jun 21 21:26:20 2003
From: stephen at thorne.id.au (Stephen Thorne)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:26:20 +1000
Subject: Steaming PDF from Python Script to IE
References: <4b46139c.0306211630.1aeb3ffa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3ef50e78@nntp>

Nathan Treloar wrote:

> I'm trying to stream PDF content to a browser client via a python CGI
> script using:
> 
>     out = open("test.pdf", "rb").read()
>     print 'Content-type: application/pdf\n\n'
>     print out
> 
> However, IE is displaying the text and not launching Acrobat. If I
> remove one '\n' on the Content-type header Acrobat is launched but is
> not displaying the content. What am I missing? I've tried restarting
> IE, flushing the cache, etc..
> 
> (You probably want to know why I don't just send a link to the file.
> This is just a test, in my actual app the PDF content is coming from
> another service as a byte stream.)
> 
> Thanks in advance.

python automatically puts line-endings on when you do 
print 'foo'

What you probably want is actually

print 'Content-Type: application/pdf\r\n\r\n',
print out,

the ',' at the end of the line supresses lineendings. Also windows likes
\r\n for CRLF, whereas you were just sending LF (which is sufficient for
unixes).

Stephen Thorne.




From joegw at hal-pc.org  Mon Jun  2 10:42:08 2003
From: joegw at hal-pc.org (Joe Gwozdecki)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:42:08 -0500
Subject: python IDLE on win2000 doesn't startup
References: <bbf7r6$27sm$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <3edb6252$0$54846$a726171b@news.hal-pc.org>

"Leo" <leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au> wrote in message
news:bbf7r6$27sm$1 at otis.netspace.net.au...
hi all

sorry, just a silly beginners question:

i have downloaded python 2.2.2 for win.

now i try to start the idle. it doesn't work: no screen, no
msg. :-(

iried ptyhonw.exe seperatly.no luck even a direct command
line
    C:\Python\Python22\pythonw.exe
"C:\Python\Python22\Tools\idle\idle.pyw"
doesn't work.

at least the command line python (python.exe) works.

any idea wjy the IDLE doesn want to run? do i have to
install TkInter
separately???

many thanks, leooo

Go to Start, then programs, then python 2.2.  You will see
python 2.2 IDLE gui.  Put your cursor on it and click right
button and send it to your desktop.  Go to desktop and
double click on it.  It will start right up.  You could also
double click on it, right where you found it.

Joe Gwozdecki
Houston, Texas






From exarkun at intarweb.us  Mon Jun  9 14:11:26 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:11:26 -0400
Subject: Call a Python file with parameters
In-Reply-To: <Dr1Fa.38532$j9%.18920@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
References: <Dr1Fa.38532$j9%.18920@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030609181126.GA27809@meson.dyndns.org>

On Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 03:10:27PM +0000, martin z wrote:
> I've asked this before, but last time I was too vague.  So, I've got a
> simpler request: I want to write and call Python files as if they were
> functions.  The problem is simple: if you write a Python file with only a
> def-statement, you don't get a file you can run with arguments - you get a
> file that builds a function.  If you use the argc and argv syntax, you get a
> file you can run with arguments, but the arguments are strings.   Basically,
> I want to have a Python file that, when I compile it, I get nothing but a
> function, or something I can use like a function, that I can shove a
> parameter tuple into.  Instead I get a code object (no argument tuple) or a
> module (containing functions).
> 
> Can anyone help?
> 

    --- file.py ---

    def function(a, b):
        '''This function exists to confuse you.'''
        print 'A is', b
        print 'B is', a

    import sys
    sys.modules['file'] = function
    del sys

    --- file.py ---

  So, we see that it is possible.  Is it desirable?  Only if you wish to
confuse readers of your code (including, possibly, yourself) and write code
that is of generally poor quality due to its pointless use of wierd magicks.

  Jp

-- 
"Pascal is Pascal is Pascal is dog meat."
                -- M. Devine and P. Larson, Computer Science 340




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Mon Jun 16 20:29:59 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:29:59 GMT
Subject: Python articles
References: <mailman.1055704587.15481.python-list@python.org> <nrkpevsm7psg011fvqs0qjh6uj2jjbmjph@4ax.com> <mailman.1055772207.16720.python-list@python.org> <ajorevk8iabmbid8k68crtn231kga7bp0d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbeso86.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:31:54 GMT, John Hall wrote:
> It's fixed here.

Until the next page that follows stadards implemented poorly by MSIE.

> Though this is a workaround, not a fix. I doubt that MS would let you
> really 'fix' it.

You can, though.  Choose a browser that hasn't stagnated, and is still
fixed when rendering bugs are reported.  There are several to choose
from.

> Anyhow - I and millions of MS-IE victims thank you.

Victims?  Nay, willing slaves.

-- 
 \          "War is God's way of teaching geography to Americans."  -- |
  `\                                                   Ambrose Bierce  |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun 10 11:25:44 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:25:44 -0600
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
In-Reply-To: <6q3cii2ude.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>; from bh@intevation.de on Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 10:45:49AM +0200
References: <mailman.1055139135.30925.python-list@python.org> <6qptlnux3w.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055177065.4464.python-list@python.org> <6qfzmjumq7.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055185158.5625.python-list@python.org> <6qbrx7uh2u.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055197158.4087.python-list@python.org> <6q3cii2ude.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <20030610092544.F374@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Bernhard Herzog:
  [...]
> Yes, but Python doesn't issue warnings about it. Actually, issuing
> deprecation warnings for exc_traceback and friends might be a good idea.
> The alternative has been available since 1.5 and it is a potential
> source of bugs. It would be far less controversial than the proposed
> syntax change for the raise statement, I think.

I agree entirely, but I don't see how such warnings could be
implemented.  How can you hook into access of specific globals?

PyChecker could do it heuristically, I expect.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"[T]rue greatness is when your name is like ampere, watt, and fourier
 -- when it's spelled with a lower case letter."      -- R.W. Hamming




From nospam at nospam.ca  Sun Jun  1 13:33:59 2003
From: nospam at nospam.ca (David Glass)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 17:33:59 GMT
Subject: Request for feedback on my first Python program
References: <MPG.194096b51af188bb9896f0@news.hevanet.com> <slrnbdeevn.694.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net> <mailman.1054429562.11692.python-list@python.org> <bbd83g$aiu$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1054485363.20758.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EDA3954.6000402@nospam.ca>

Jack Diederich wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 12:02:56PM -0400, Aahz wrote:
> 
>>In article <mailman.1054429562.11692.python-list at python.org>,
>>Sean Legassick  <sean at datamage.net> wrote:
>>
>>>In message <slrnbdeevn.694.andrew-usenet at athena.jcn.srcf.net>, Andrew 
>>>Walkingshaw <andrew-usenet at lexical.org.uk> writes
>>>
>>>>def isMeaningful(line):
>>>>   if line != "" and line[0] != "#":
>>>>       return True
>>>>   else:
>>>>       return False
>>>
>>>Yuck!
>>>
>>>def isMeaningful(line):
>>>    return line != "" and line[0] != "#";
>>>
>>>No offence intended, but I've seen this too often in real code not to 
>>>point out its redundancy here.
>>
>>It is *NOT* redundant; it is making clear that True/False are the only
>>possible return values.  With your rewrite, reading and understanding
>>the code is necessary to clarify the intent.
> 
> 
> +1 for good advice
>  
> If the docstring says "returns true if some_condition, false otherwise"
> invariably someone will look at the code and use the side effect that it
> isn't returning 1/0 for evil purposes[1].  reversing the order of compairson
> shouldn't break any code, so it is good defensive programming to always
> explicity return a bool.
> 
> The snippet in question will always return a bool, but IMO this is rarely
> the case so it is best to be explicit.
> 
> -jack
> 
> [1] shoot the person who depended on the undocumented side effect
>

How about this as a compromise (using Python 2.2; maybe works with 
earlier versions):

def isMeaningful(line):
     return bool(line != "" and line[0] != "#")

- David




From kaithomsen at t-online.de  Tue Jun 17 15:38:36 2003
From: kaithomsen at t-online.de (Kai Thomsen)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:38:36 +0200
Subject: The beauty of Python
References: <yrEHa.7094$Hb.127911@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <bcnqqi$1od$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Thomas,

Have you looked at "Useless Python" 
(http://www.uselesspython.com/index.html). It might have what you need.

Kai

> I'm trying to promote Python as an elegant, easy-to-read and intuitive
> language at work and to my programming-buddies. I thought it would be nice
> to have a webpage with examples of the beauty of Python, showing small
> snippets of code solving real-world problems or tasks. If anybody has any
> such examples to offer, I'd be very gratefull. And if it turns out to be
> any interest for this in this group, I'll collect the source-snippets and
> put them on the net.
> 
> Best regards,
> Thomas Weholt




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun  4 09:08:29 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 09:08:29 -0400
Subject: JavaScript parser in Python
References: <hDeDa.9103$945.25982@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> <mailman.1054702568.9014.python-list@python.org> <bbk4m4$1k2n$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <3EDDEF4D.CEB99B24@engcorp.com>

Frantisek Fuka wrote:
> 
> Ian Bicking wrote:
> > On Wed, 2003-06-04 at 02:32, Carl Waldbieser wrote:
> >
> >>Does anyone know of a Python module that can parse a JavaScript source file?
> >>I am intersted in checking the file to see if it is syntactically correct,
> >>as well as possibly stripping out whitespace and comments.  I found a couple
> >>JavaScript compression utilities after doing a Google search, but many of
> >>them are themselves written in JavaScript, execute in a browser, and tend to
> >>be somewhat slow for very large JavaScript files.  A pythonic solution has a
> >>certain appeal to me because I have always found Python very easy an
> >>intuitive to use in the past.  Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
> > Well, I think that Javascript has tokens that pretty much match
> > Python's, except for whitespace.  That at least would make compression
> > fairly easy, though a more general parser would be able to do more.
> 
> And what about Python script that could disassemble the compiled Java
> file into the primitive "Java-assembler" instructions? (i.e. not Java
> source)

Just to clarify, in case you weren't aware "Frantisek":  Java is *not*
related to Javascript.  The two are very different beasts and have next
to nothing in common.

-Peter



From dwlocks at cs.uchicago.edu  Wed Jun 18 18:22:44 2003
From: dwlocks at cs.uchicago.edu (Dan Locks)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:22:44 GMT
Subject: Decoding ADSI/Com errors
Message-ID: <UC5Ia.8$W4.2704@news.uchicago.edu>

There's an ugly section in our user creation scripts that used os.popen to run the win2k comands c:>net group <groupname> <username> /add.

I decided to re-implement this with win32com and ADSI, but I'm having problems.  Here's a code snippet with some traceback errors embedded:

import win32com.client
# makepy.py -i produced this ugliness for the adsi com objects
from win32com.client import gencache
gencache.EnsureModule('{97d25db0-0363-11cf-abc4-02608c9e7553}', 0, 1, 0)

user_DN = 'CN=test05,OU=studenttest,OU=YWLCS Users,DC=internal,DC=ywlcs,DC=org'
group_DN = 'LDAP://CN=resource,OU=YWLCS Users,DC=internal,DC=ywlcs,DC=org'

adsi = win32com.client.Dispatch('ADsNameSpaces')
ldap = adsi.getobject('', 'LDAP:')

# using 3 is easier than looking at
# win32com.client.constants.ADS_SECURE_AUTHENTICATION
group_obj = ldap.opendsobject(group_DN,'','',3)

# So far so good.  here's where things stop working.
# Since group_obj is an IADsGroup, I should be able to use add('LDAP string')
# But I get this error:
group_obj.add( user_DN )

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "<COMObject <unknown>>", line 2, in add
com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, None, None, None, 0, -2147463168), None)

# That's pretty opaque to me.

# All ADSI objects inherit the IADs::putex method, right?  maybe.

group_obj.putex(3,'member',user_DN)

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
  File "<COMObject <unknown>>", line 2, in putex
com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, 'Active Directory', 'Unspecified error\r\n', None, 0, -2147467259), None)

# after all that this does work, but it *replaces* the group membership with
# whatever string or list of strings I send.  that's not good.

group_obj.put('member',[user_DN, another_DN, ...]

group_obj.setinfo()


What do these errors mean?
How am I to decode them?

Thanks, 

Dan

Technology manager, YWLCS
-- 
   Young Women's Leadership  (O__,__O/    The cure for MustSee TV:
        Charter School       // ,__//         Lindy Hop!
     -Technology Manager-    >\    <
-----------------------------~-~---~-----------------------------------



From painlord2k at yahoo.it  Thu Jun 19 11:56:14 2003
From: painlord2k at yahoo.it (Mirco Romanato)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:56:14 GMT
Subject: Tiger Hash Function in Python
Message-ID: <y2lIa.104936$lK4.2967901@twister1.libero.it>

Hi to all!

I'm thinkering with Python to build an utility (more specs at the end
of the post) and I need to utilize the Tiger Hash function.
I have not MSVC and run a Win box with the last Cygwin and Python
2.2.3.

There is any module that compile automagically with Cygwin, or a
module that don't need to be compiled, only installed?

Any suggestion is welcome!!!

Mirco

P.S.
My utility is for post files to binary newgroups including in the post
the metadata to verify the chunk of the file posted.

This need to be done using Tiger hash to build a TigerTree of Hashes
compatible with THEX and other protocols used in Gnutella, Gnutella2,
eDonkey/eMule (the last will implement TTH in the future).

This will enable these popular filesharing network to tap from binary
Usenet for bulk/inaffidable/fast transport of data, then use the P2P
networks to recover the missing parts of a file.
Files popular with high rate of request could be posted in newsgroups
(manually or maybe [semi]automatically), then reducing the load of
nodes in the P2P network and reducing the outbond traffic of ISPs with
a binary newsserver (their server will automatically cache files in
high demand).
This also will reduce the rate of reposting of a file, the storage
space needed in servers, and augment the retention time of popular
files/posts (in servers with supporting software) because servers will
select posts knowing before how many posts it will DL from the feed
(it will DL complete series of posts and not random posts) and could
skip to DL post with redundant data (like two series of posts with the
same file, maybe with different post size/object/sender).





From robhall at ii.net  Wed Jun  4 09:05:14 2003
From: robhall at ii.net (Rob Hall)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:05:14 +0800
Subject: Python IO performance?
References: <m33civ37b2.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <mailman.1054370388.6981.python-list@python.org> <m3k7c61ktg.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <3edb7b8e$0$15844@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <hhvqdvgqftk8ee3mjiccc8d1te5thnnab3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3edf074c$0$24089@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

"Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message
news:hhvqdvgqftk8ee3mjiccc8d1te5thnnab3 at 4ax.com...
> "Rob Hall" <robhall at ii.net> wrote:
> >...
> >I converted the program into Ada - Ada being very fast.  But there were
no
> >real performance gains here.
>
> I'm taking this thread wildly off-topic, but that line intrigued me.  The
> last time I worked with Ada, better than a decade ago, the compilers were
> absolutely hopeless, partly because the language is so vast and complex.
> It looked like there would never be a time Ada could compete with C or
> Fortran in terms of performance.
>
> Has that situation changed?
> --
> - Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
>   Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

I've only dabbled in ada over the last few years.  I've always found it on
par or better than c++ on simple projects (which is all I use it for).   I
often convert small peices of Python into Ada, but this is the first time
I've used it primarily for serious IO.

Rob Hall






From webmaster at stratastuff.com  Tue Jun 10 01:33:54 2003
From: webmaster at stratastuff.com (Tyreal)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 05:33:54 GMT
Subject: Octets calculation?
Message-ID: <65eFa.634621$Si4.577158@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

I was reading over the POP3 RFC  (RFC 1939) and it states that message sizes must be
in octets, but that it's different in bytes in that they are nonambigious (ie. bytes vary from platform
to platform).  So is there a way to get octets from a file?  In order to do that I'd most likely need
the bit count of a file if that's even possible.

Sincerely,
Chris White



From ebolonev at mail.ru  Sun Jun 29 20:13:07 2003
From: ebolonev at mail.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:13:07 +1100
Subject: console mp3->wav decoder for $indows or GUI one which supports console
Message-ID: <bdnvc9$ktc$1@news.rol.ru>

Hi All!

I'm seeking a subj.

--
  Egor [ru eo en]





From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Jun  4 13:34:52 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:34:52 -0500 
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304F8FA13@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters [mailto:mertz at gnosis.cx]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 11:55 AM
> 
> Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote previously:
> |>     def fooDoc(f):
> |>         f.__doc__ = "Bob's your uncle."
> |>         return f
> |>     class Klass(object):
> |>         def meth(this, that) [fooDoc]:
> |>             pass
> |Or better:
> |
> |def Doc(docstring, **kw):
> |    def fDoc(f):
> |        f.__doc__ = docstring
> |        f.__dict__.update(kw)
> |        return f
> |class Klass(object):
> |    def meth(this, that) [Doc("Bob's your uncle.", Author="me")]:
> |        pass
> 
> I don't understand this version.  I see the idea that you want to pass
> arguments to the "function constructor"--but where does the name 'fDoc'
> come from?  How does 'Doc()' know to call 'fDoc()' (which I presume it
> wants to)?
> 
> Yours, Lulu...
>

It doesn't... I mean, Doc() doesn't call fDoc().  Doc() is a factory
function which produces functions which in turn are used to apply
transformations upon other functions.

So, in the declaration:

   def meth(this,that) [Doc("Bob's your uncle.", Author="me")]:
           pass

So, Doc(...) produces a function (fDoc) which applies decorations
to any function passed to it.  It'd be equivalent to:

   UncleBobFunc = Doc("Bob's your uncle.", Author="me")

   def meth(this,that) [UncleBobFunc]:
           pass

And, the transformation-application-mechanism inside the compiler,
internally, does something like:

   for transform in [UncleBobFunc]:
      meth = transform(meth)

for every transformation in the list.  That's why I like the list-like
notation best, it's very simple to implement in the compiler
machinery, very easy on the eyes, and simple to parse visually.

HTH!

-gca
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From news at manuelmgarcia.com  Thu Jun 12 19:12:08 2003
From: news at manuelmgarcia.com (Manuel Garcia)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:12:08 GMT
Subject: Twice instanciation
References: <bcakmg$jv7$1@news-reader14.wanadoo.fr> <bcakrl$ivt$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <bcan0c$j7h$1@news-reader13.wanadoo.fr> <hknhev8tn24ar2anr5ttqlqsaqssfvgluj@4ax.com> <3EE8E655.6000502@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <k51ievo30ee2cmh3o9n77qjctfluhotgh9@4ax.com>

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 22:45:09 +0200, Salvatore <artyprog at wanadoo.fr>
wrote:

>The problem araise when I was asked from a friend how to manage
>global variables, and among other examples I said he could wrote
>a class named Global and instanciate object from this class,
>being assured a same name would not be used twice

Hmm, I would put the data inside a module.  A module automatically has
the behavior that it is loaded only once, and the standard way of
importing a module makes you use the filename as the name.

So I would make a module named 'my_global.py', and make sure the
directory it was in was on my 'PYTHONPATH'.

# my_global.py
# ############ #
d = {
    'global01':'hello',
    'global02':'goodbye',
    'global03':17
    }
# ############ #

And no matter how many modules I have opened, 'import my_global'
always sets 'my_global' to the exact same module.

So if in one module I do:

    import my_global
    my_global.d['global03'] = 29

later on, in any of another modules I may have running,

    import my_global
    assert my_global.d['global03'] == 29

will be true (unless I changed it in the meantime, of course).

So easy to do with a module, it is hardly worth the bother of making a
class with similar behavior.

Manuel



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Jun 12 05:13:10 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:13:10 GMT
Subject: Zip imports on python 2.2?
References: <mailman.1055324240.8465.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GuXFa.127539$g92.2947285@news2.tin.it>

<posted & mailed>

Beni Cherniavsky wrote:

> I have a university shell account with 10MB quota (most of it filled
> by mail).  At last they've installed python 2.2 (they forgot curses,
> sockets and some other nice modules but never mind ;).  Now I'm
> installing some modules, notably docutils, under my home directory and
> it takes even more of my quota...
> 
> Is there some pure-python way to use zip imports in Python 2.2 so I
> can save space by compressing the installed modules?

You might kludge something up by using your site.py (or the like) to
substitute a customized __import__ wrapping the normal built-in one --
your customized __import__ might look into the relevant zipfiles'
directories, extract the needed modules into some /tmp subdirectory
suitably created and inserted in your sys.path, then delegate to the
real-builtin __import__.  There are cleaner ways but you may not need
generality enough -- perhaps this kludge, perfected experimentally
for your specific and rather peculiar needs, might suffice.


Alex
 




From lists at gregfortune.com  Wed Jun 11 10:57:12 2003
From: lists at gregfortune.com (Greg Fortune)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:57:12 -0700
Subject: File type recognition
References: <PtEFa.37873$ws6.760666@news2.nokia.com>
Message-ID: <EqGFa.2758$115.2619101@feed2.centurytel.net>

Take a look at the standard module, mimetypes.

Greg

Sami Viitanen wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if there is a python script that can recognize the file
> type ie. is the file content binary or text.




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun 10 11:22:55 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:22:55 -0600
Subject: Hardware take on software testing.
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0306100538.4889ae4f@posting.google.com>; from mis6@pitt.edu on Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 06:38:08AM -0700
References: <2ae25c6b.0306060450.78e988f9@posting.google.com> <3EE0CF2B.57F474E4@engcorp.com> <2ae25c6b.0306061721.148300a@posting.google.com> <3EE14F0A.3D1E1887@engcorp.com> <2259b0e2.0306091158.701ed82a@posting.google.com> <3EE4F2F0.2EC4FBA5@engcorp.com> <2259b0e2.0306100538.4889ae4f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030610092255.C374@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Michele Simionato:
  [...]
> somebody came up with many very subtle corner cases where the recipe 
> couldn't work. Not real bugs but limitations or warts. Some of them I
> knew, other where inexpected. Now my point is that TDD gave me a 
> sense of false security (similar to what you get when your program 
> compile in a compiled language) and made me too much confident.

Fwiw, I agree entirely with your point that sometimes (rarely) TDD
does not provide adequate coverage of cases.  What agile
methodologies gain you in this case, imho, is practical experience
with candidate algorithms and direct experience of the subtlety of
the subject.  This is very valuable.

Now that you have that experience, you might be motivated to throw
away what you have and take a more formal approach: Formalization
of the Python type system, formal characterization of the
circumstances under which the metaclass/metatype conflict occurs,
proof that such-and-such an algorithm avoids those circumstances,
you know the drill.

Imho such methods are worth it in such cases.  (Type system
hacking is one area where I *do* want proofs of correctness.)  But
an important point: you would not know for certain that this was
needed if you hadn't used agile methodologies to explore the
domain in the first place.

  [...]
> In the same sense that one should be skeptical about the confidence he gets 
> when the program compile, he should be skeptical about the confidence he gets 
> when the program passes the test suite.

In the same sense, yes.  But to a much lesser degree, of course;
the test suite is smarter than the compiler.

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "The world will end if you get this wrong."
staschuk at telusplanet.net     -- "Typesetting Mathematics -- User's Guide",
                                 Brian Kernighan and Lorrinda Cherry




From bsimuyandi at africonnect.com  Mon Jun 16 05:17:25 2003
From: bsimuyandi at africonnect.com (Ben Simuyandi)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:17:25 +0100
Subject: Newbie: changing an attribute of objects in a list
References: <bc72gq$cv3$1@main.gmane.org> <bc7gcd$ncf$1@main.gmane.org> <20030611120656.F1157@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus> <bc9fub$7vu$1@main.gmane.org> <20030612111547.B902@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus> <mailman.1055493745.28052.python-list@python.org> <1CkGa.85131$pR3.1786454@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bck1q0$5nl$1@main.gmane.org>

I used this method in the end. It works just as I wanted. Thank you Alex,
and thanks to Steven for helping me out as well.

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:1CkGa.85131$pR3.1786454 at news1.tin.it...
> <posted & mailed>
>
> Ben Simuyandi wrote:
>
> > I'm very sorry about the confusion. It comes from mistyping, and not
> > thinking through my problem.
> >
> > The first problem is from me not entering the number correctly. As you
> > say, it should be a.order = 8 and g.order =9.
> >
> > As for the second problem, this is because I had not thought about
> > *exactly* what I want. What I would like is for the .age to be compared
if
> > any items have matching .order values, and the object with the larger
.age
> > value to have its .order value increased by one.
> >
> > for example:
> > if d.order and e.order match
> >    compare d.age and e.age
> >       if d.age > e.age
> >         d.order = d.order + 1
> >       else if d.age < e.age
> >         e.order = e.order + 1
> >
> > But after that, all objects with a .order value matching or greater than
> > the changed .order value with have to be increased by one as well, so
that
> > all items still have a unique .order value. I don't actually need to
> > compare .age values any more.
>
> I suggest you think about the problem in a slightly different way, which
> I believe should produce similar results but in a conceptually simpler
> and speedier way:
>
> step 1: "sort all objects by increasing order (primary) and age
(secondary)"
>
> step 2: "reassign the values of the order field to ensure uniqueness"
>
> These two steps would leave your objects sorted by order and age rather
> than in whatever sequence you initially had them in.  If that sequence
> is important to you, then you need to keep track of that too, and add
> a third and final step reordering everything in sequence; or else, use
> the indices into the sequence rather than the items themselves, so the
> order of the items never actually gets perturbed.
>
> Each sorting step should use the DSU (Decorate-Sort-Undecorate) idiom
> that is very well covered in the sorting and searching chapter of the
> Python Cookbook and also exemplified in Python in a Nutshell.
>
> Here is how I would approach a solution (warning: untested code):
>
>
> Prerequisite: the argument items is a nonempty list of objects which have
>   comparable fields named age (arbitrary type) and order (integer).
>
> def updateOrder(items):
>     aux = [ (items[i].order, items[i].age, i) for i in range(len(items)) ]
>     aux.sort()
>     curr_order = aux[0][0]
>     for order, age, i in aux[1:]:
>         if order <= curr_order:
>             order = curr_order+1
>             items[i].order = order
>         curr_order = order
>
> On exit ensures: the sequence of items is not affected.  Each item's
.order
> field is unique within the list.  If two items in the list x,y were such
> that x.order < y.order before updateOrder was called, the same condition
> still applies after updateOrder exits.  If two items in the list x, y were
> such that x.order == y.order before updateOrder was called, then after
> updateOrder exits x.order < y.order if and only if x.age < y.age, or if
> x.age == y.age and x precedes y in the list's sequence; otherwise (x.age >
> y.age, or x.age == y.age and x follows y in the list's sequence), then
> x.order > y.order after updateOrder exits.  No item's .age nor any other
> attribute is modified, except that each item's .order attribute _is_
> modified but only where such modification is indispensable to assure
> the rest of these post-conditions.
>
>
> Alex
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>







From sabu at pure-elite.org  Sat Jun 28 20:19:35 2003
From: sabu at pure-elite.org (Xavier)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 20:19:35 -0400
Subject: Re/Unresolved bug?
References: <001c01c33d4d$453a9870$6401a8c0@boxen> <20030628072655.A379@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
Message-ID: <006e01c33dd4$1f3d54a0$6401a8c0@boxen>

Steven,

Thanks for your reply.  Here is the exact, waiting to be fixed code:
http://sabu.net/routekill.py

-- Xavier.
oderint dum mutuant

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Taschuk" <staschuk at telusplanet.net>
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Re/Unresolved bug?


> Quoth Xavier:
>   [...]
> > t:163: SyntaxWarning: name 'VERBOSE' is assigned to before global
> > declaration
> >   def main():
> > (no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...(no
debugging
> > symbols found)...
> > Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
> > 0x0807f022 in PyErr_NormalizeException ()
>   [...in 2.2.3 it dies with no segfault by no exception message either...]
>
> Could you post a minimal example of code which provokes this
> behaviour?
>
> Without seeing code, I speculate irresponsibly: the SyntaxWarning
> is unrelated to the segfault; the segfault might be due to
> PyErr_NormalizeException somehow being called when no exception
> has been set.  (The bug fix in Python/errors.c revision 2.77 (part
> of 2.3b1, backported to 2.2.3 in revision 2.66.10.2) seems
> relevant.)
>
> -- 
> Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
> "What I find most baffling about that song is that it was not a hit."
>                                           -- Tony Dylan Davis (CKUA)
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>






From knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk  Sun Jun  8 14:30:28 2003
From: knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk (Martin Christensen)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 20:30:28 +0200
Subject: Python vs emacs (again...)
References: <b6562547.0306041209.3fbf770b@posting.google.com> <871xy4d55s.fsf@gvdnet.dk>
 <mailman.1055093812.9145.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87wufw2zi3.fsf@gvdnet.dk>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>>> "Skip" == Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
Tim> I downloaded the newest python-mode.el from SourceForge [...]
Martin> Where? I haven't been able to find it.
Skip> http://tinyurl.com/dryr

Cheers, mate!

Martin

- -- 
Homepage:       http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/
GPG public key: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/gpgkey.txt
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using Mailcrypt+GnuPG <http://www.gnupg.org>

iEYEARECAAYFAj7jgMQACgkQYu1fMmOQldX50ACeJMINqYQzdKo2gA0wvKf5i2jl
4W4AoKAtWKeT9gx1DHaTvbNEZdJbPIB8
=WV1D
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jun  8 11:24:39 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 11:24:39 -0400
Subject: Excuting scripts question
References: <bbtq4o$d718f$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE26F88.C86E88BB@alcyone.com> <bbu0bo$df2cq$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE28A13.65FD29DD@engcorp.com> <bbu7gc$ddp76$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE2AEA5.8A63C18E@engcorp.com> <bbuhq9$diov7$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EE35537.B774DB68@engcorp.com>

Ken wrote:
> 
> I basically don't know if my problem with script execution have anything to
> do with this first line, which was used on the Unix environment
> beforehand....
> 
> #!/usr/local/bin/python

It does not... try removing the line and note the difference.
(There will be none.)

Only Unix uses that information.  Windows ignores it.

-Peter



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun 22 13:57:12 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:57:12 -0600
Subject: Remove duplicate letters in a word
In-Reply-To: <20030622181107.GA13125@rootshell.be>; from eg@rootshell.be on Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 09:11:07PM +0300
References: <20030622181107.GA13125@rootshell.be>
Message-ID: <20030622115712.B416@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Eliran Gonen:
  [...]
> For example, in the word SECRET, E appears twice, I need to get rid of
> the second instance of E.
> 
> I'm stuck here:
> 
>     for i in range(len(key)):
>         for j in range(len(key)):
>             if key[i] == key[j] :
>                 key[j] = ""

Close!

The immediate problem with this code is that strings are
immutable, so you can't change a character.  One easy solution for
this problem is to turn the string into a list, apply your code,
then turn the list back into a string:

    def withoutduplicates(string):
        chars = list(string)  # create list of characters
        for i in range(len(chars)):
            for j in range(len(chars)):
                if chars[i] == chars[j]:
                    chars[j] = ''
        return ''.join(chars)  # join characters back into a string

This code will run, but it has another problem:

    >>> withoutduplicates('repeat')
    ''

It removes *all* letters.  One way to discover why is to make the
code babble about what it's doing:

    def withoutduplicates(string):
        chars = list(string)
        for i in range(len(chars)):
            for j in range(len(chars)):
                if chars[i] == chars[j]:
                    ### added:
                    print 'characters at %d and %d are both %s' \
                          % (i, j, chars[i])
                    ###
                    chars[j] = ''
        return ''.join(chars)

    >>> withoutduplicates('repeat')
    characters at 0 and 0 are both r
    characters at 1 and 1 are both e
    characters at 2 and 2 are both p
    characters at 3 and 3 are both e
    characters at 4 and 4 are both a
    characters at 5 and 5 are both t
    ''

As this output shows, the function is comparing characters to
themselves, then, since they're equal to themselves, deleting them
as duplicates.  So: rather than loop j over all the characters,
loop only over the characters *after* the one pointed to by i:

    def withoutduplicates(string):
        chars = list(string)
        for i in range(len(chars)):
            for j in range(i+1, len(chars)):  # changed
                if chars[i] == chars[j]:
                    print 'characters at %d and %d are both %s' \
                          % (i, j, chars[i])
                    chars[j] = ''
        return ''.join(chars)

    >>> withoutduplicates('repeat')
    characters at 1 and 3 are both e
    'repat'

That looks right.  Getting rid of the print statement, and adding
documentation:

    def withoutduplicates(string):
        """Returns a copy of the string with duplicate characters removed.

        >>> withoutduplicates('repeat')
        'repat'

        """
        chars = list(string)
        for i in range(len(chars)):
            for j in range(i+1, len(chars)):
                if chars[i] == chars[j]:
                    chars[j] = ''
        return ''.join(chars)

(You can use the doctest module to turn the example in the
docstring into an automated test, which has many advantages.  See
the doctest docs.)

(This algorithm is O(n**2), meaning that if the string's length is
doubled, the function will take about four times as much time to
execute; if the string's length is tripled, the function will take
about nine times as long; and so forth.  For small strings this is
probably not a big deal; but if you want to perform this operation
on big strings, something like

    def withoutduplicates(string):
        seen = {}
        chars = []
        for c in string:
            if c not in seen:
                chars.append(c)
                seen[c] = 1
        return ''.join(chars)

(untested) might be preferable.  This is O(n); if the string's
length is tripled, it takes only about three times as long.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Our analysis begins with two outrageous benchmarks."
  -- "Implementation strategies for continuations", Clinger et al.




From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Fri Jun 20 09:03:03 2003
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 18:33:03 +0530
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <bcus6i$1rl$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <bcuukr$947$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <ou1xxodhq0.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>

>>>>> "Gilles" == Gilles Lenfant <glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com> writes:

> This script is a copy from a FAT32 (windows) partition. Emacs carried on
> saving silently this file with DOS like end of lines.
> A "dos2unix" fixed this.

Not silently. You'll be seeing a "(DOS)" in your emacs mode line if you edit
a file in DOS mode. 

Ganesan

-- 
Ganesan R (rganesan at debian dot org) | http://www.debian.org/~rganesan/
1024D/5D8C12EA, fingerprint F361 84F1 8D82 32E7 1832  6798 15E0 02BA 5D8C 12EA



From news at 92tr.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Jun 15 17:32:27 2003
From: news at 92tr.freeserve.co.uk (ddoc)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:32:27 +0000
Subject: popen3 child_stdin
Message-ID: <bcinsu$hui$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>

popen3(cmd[, mode[, bufsize]]) Executes cmd as a sub-process. Returns the 
file objects (child_stdin, child_stdout, child_stderr). Availability: Unix, 
Windows. New in version 2.0.


I may be having a moment of brain fade, but I can't see how I get hold of 
child_stdin etc, having started up a DOS program with popen3

Help?
-- 
A



From jeske at neotonic.com  Thu Jun 26 02:47:59 2003
From: jeske at neotonic.com (David Jeske)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:47:59 -0700
Subject: GC time debug...
Message-ID: <20030626064759.GD11302@c1.neotonic.com>

In debugging Python GC actions, it's really useful to know the amount
of time Python spends doing the GC cycle (i.e. the pause time). I made
a quick hack to do this, and I've attached the patch. It needs to be
fixed to be portable. I wanted to just call floattime() from
timemodule.c, but it wasn't clear how to do this from gcmodule.c.

My patch adds the gc time and the max gc time to the "done" line when
debugging is enabled, making it look like this:

gc: collecting generation 0...
gc: objects in each generation: 702 5608 72421
gc: done. (0.000267006 s, max 0.151359 s)

I'd like to see something like this added to gc module. 

I also think it would be useful if there were a debugging mode to
print out gc sweeps which take longer than a certain pause time.

(i.e. gc.debug_pauses(0.2) would print out a line for each gc pause
over 0.2 seconds)

-- 
David Jeske  
Neotonic Software Corporation
email   jeske at neotonic.com
phone   (415) 701-8003x1
fax     (415) 704-3283
-------------- next part --------------
*** Python-2.3b1/Modules/gcmodule.c	Thu Apr 17 10:29:21 2003
--- Python-2.3b1-gdtimedebug/Modules/gcmodule.c	Wed Jun 25 23:30:41 2003
***************
*** 48,53 ****
--- 48,61 ----
  
  PyGC_Head *_PyGC_generation0 = GEN_HEAD(0);
  
+ static double floattime(void) {
+     struct timeval t;
+     if (gettimeofday(&t, (struct timezone *)NULL) == 0) {
+        return (double)t.tv_sec + t.tv_usec*0.000001;
+     }
+     return 0.0;
+ }
+ 
  static int enabled = 1; /* automatic collection enabled? */
  
  /* true if we are currently running the collector */
***************
*** 524,529 ****
--- 532,538 ----
  		}
  	}
  }
+ static double max = 0.0;
  
  /* This is the main function.  Read this to understand how the
   * collection process works. */
***************
*** 538,543 ****
--- 547,553 ----
  	PyGC_Head unreachable;
  	PyGC_Head finalizers;
  	PyGC_Head *gc;
+ 	double start; /* for timing gc */
  
  	if (delstr == NULL) {
  		delstr = PyString_InternFromString("__del__");
***************
*** 553,558 ****
--- 563,569 ----
  			PySys_WriteStderr(" %ld", gc_list_size(GEN_HEAD(i)));
  		}
  		PySys_WriteStderr("\n");
+ 		start = floattime();
  	}
  
  	/* update collection and allocation counters */
***************
*** 634,646 ****
  			debug_cycle("uncollectable", FROM_GC(gc));
  	}
  	if (debug & DEBUG_STATS) {
  		if (m == 0 && n == 0) {
! 			PySys_WriteStderr("gc: done.\n");
  		}
  		else {
  			PySys_WriteStderr(
! 			    "gc: done, %ld unreachable, %ld uncollectable.\n",
! 			    n+m, n);
  		}
  	}
  
--- 645,660 ----
  			debug_cycle("uncollectable", FROM_GC(gc));
  	}
  	if (debug & DEBUG_STATS) {
+ 		double elapsed = floattime()-start;
+ 		if (elapsed > max) { max = elapsed; }
+ 
  		if (m == 0 && n == 0) {
! 			PySys_WriteStderr("gc: done. (%g s, max %g s)\n",elapsed,max);
  		}
  		else {
  			PySys_WriteStderr(
! 			    "gc: done (%g s, max %g s), %ld unreachable, %ld uncollectable.\n",
! 			    elapsed,max,n+m, n);
  		}
  	}
  

From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jun 26 08:09:17 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:09:17 GMT
Subject: Newbie: "compiling" scrips (?)
References: <bdbrv2$9un$02$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1056537281.12123.python-list@python.org> <bdc160$n2i$01$1@news.t-online.com> <M4gKa.319364$3n5.125426@news2.central.cox.net> <mailman.1056552526.17315.python-list@python.org> <3EF9CBD8.F3AFF856@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NnBKa.323210$3n5.72810@news2.central.cox.net>

"Alan Kennedy" <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3EF9CBD8.F3AFF856 at hotmail.com...
> Gerrit Holl wrote:
>
> > I don't understand how pypy can improve performance. Am I correct that
pypy
> > is an effort to implement Python as much as possible in Python?
>
> Yes, that's a part of what the PyPy people are doing.
>
> > And am I
> > correct that implementing a module in C will probably speed it up?
>
> In some scenarios, implementing a module in C will speed things up, but it
is
> not guaranteed. It depends on the data being transferred back and forth
between
> the C extension and the users python script. This transfer comes at a
cost. If
> the cost of the transfer outweighs the time spent in the C extension, then
it
> will be slower. Which doesn't happen very often, mind.
>
> > Combining
> > these two, wouldn't implementing Python in Python slow things down?
>
> Not necessarily. That's true only if you assume that the python virtual
machine
> interpreting the python byte codes doesn't run any faster than the current
> Python VM.
>
> > If so,
> > what is the advantage of pypy?
>
> From my readings, I think the PyPy project is very ambitious (and I wish
them
> the very best of luck getting funding for it).
>
[and lots of other good stuff]

Alan: thanks very much, couldn't have explained that as well myself!

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From ed at membled.com  Fri Jun  6 19:45:44 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 07 Jun 2003 00:45:44 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> writes:

>>>Lambda expressions are syntactic sugar that allow the embedding of
>>>what would otherwise be a def statement within some other statement
>> 
>>Not quite, of course, since not everything that can appear in a def
>>statement can appear in a lambda.
>
>No, Terry means precisely what he said. Lambdas can do a SUBSET of
>what def can do.

Yes, fair enough.

>>[lambda 'designed for side-effect free expressions']

>>The point is that the supposed justification for lambda's restrictions
>>- that it is supposed not to have side effects - bears no relation to
>>how it really behaves.

>Again, the argument is from the other direction. *IF* you only wanted
>lambda for side-effect-free functions, then you would have little
>need (with one exception mentioned below) for statements. The fact
>that some expressions ALSO have side effects is irrelevent. And
>that's not the REAL motivation for allowing only expressions... the
>REAL motivation is the fact that Python makes a clear distinction
>between statements and expressions.

I know it does.  But that doesn't seem a motivation for allowing only
expressions in lambda.  Surely you can make a clear distinction
between statements and expressions, yet still allow statements to
appear in anonymous functions?

>So lambdas (which are expressions) can't contain statements.

Syntactically this makes some sense, but semantically it seems
inconsistent, since:

    def f:
      print 'hello'
    x = f

f is an expression, yet it 'contains' a statement.  Couldn't the same
kind of containment be allowed for lambdas?

>There isn't even a clean way in which it could be done... unlike (for
>instance) C and Java where statements are delimited by ";",
>statements in Python are delimited by whitespace and
>bracket-balancing.

I suggested elsewhere in this thread allowing lambda to contain
anything that fits on a single line.   That would probably deal with
most whitespace and bracketing issues.

>>    lambda x: assert(x > 0)
>>    lambda x: print 'value:', x
>>    lambda x: y += x    # (without any change to scoping rules)
> 
>Actually, ONE of those is convincing to me. Even a side-effect-free
>expression ought to be able to raise exceptions, and "raise" (and
>also its special-case sibling "assert") is a statement. But if the
>function is simple enough, then this won't be an issue. If it is
>really needed, it's trivial to define a function "assert_()" which
>does what is needed.

Well yes, and that is what I did.  It seems rather wrong however that
you end up with two different 'assert' routines to be called in
different places.  Surely there should be just one.  Still, this
particular case could be solved by making assert an expression rather
than a statement (if sys.exit(1) is an expression then assert(1) could
surely be one too).

>Actually, I think you're missing a fundamental point about the
>grammer.  Unlike many other languages, Python makes a very
>fundamental distinction between STATEMENTS and EXPRESSIONS.

I know.  I just don't see why lambda has to contain only expressions,
when one-line statements seem both useful to have and reasonably
simple to add.

>But the distinction is maintained throughout the language... it is
>not a "strange rule".

What's strange is not the idea of distinct expressions and statements,
but the division between the two, so that (to use the same example
again) dict[k] = 5 is a statement while dict.setdefault(k, 5) is an
expression.  There is no semantic basis for the split, it looks like a
case of 'it is because it is', and that makes the rules for anonymous
functions seem strange.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jun  5 14:33:38 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:33:38 -0600
Subject: Repeated assignments - a more elegant approach (newbie)
In-Reply-To: <67e2f348.0306050942.62aa6074@posting.google.com>; from ivan.nazarenko@uol.com.br on Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 10:42:14AM -0700
References: <67e2f348.0306050942.62aa6074@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030605123338.D6890@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth ivannaz:
> Suppose I have the following code:
> 
> if a > 0:
>     mna += a
>     cnta += 1
> if b > 0:
>     mnb += b
>     cntb += 1
> if c > 0:
>     mnc += c
>     cntc += 1
> ... and so on, until 'z'
> 
> Is there a better way to write it? [...]

Yes; don't use a bunch of names, use data structures such as lists:

    for i in range(len(data)):
        if data[i] > 0:
            mean[i] += data[i]
            count[i] += 1

Or some such.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                           staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I'm always serious, never more so than when I'm being flippant."
                            -- _Look to Windward_, Iain M. Banks




From reder at jpl.nasa.gov  Mon Jun  2 16:35:16 2003
From: reder at jpl.nasa.gov (Leonard J. Reder)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 13:35:16 -0700
Subject: wxPython vs Tkinter for imaging front end GUI???
Message-ID: <3EDBB504.87EE8EE1@jpl.nasa.gov>

Hello,

I have a command line image feature recognition code and I want to put a
quick python script on it to execute it and give it a GUI.  I need to
read in an image (JPEG), rescale the image on a canvas sort of display,
place mouse over it to select some coordinate points.  And then just do
other stuff with buttons and entries.  I am confortable with TK from
using tcl but in Tk there is not an easy way to handle scaled images on
the canvas.  Does wxPython have this sort of functionality included? 
Has this sort of thing been done with Tkinter and PIL in Python.  Or
perhaps PMW, Tkinter and PIL can be used.

I am looking for recommendations from someone who has implemented this
sort of thing in Python?  Any comments on which toolkit would be better
to use for this are requested?

Thanks for all replies,

Len
-- 
____________________________________________________
Leonard J. Reder
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Interferometry Systems and Technology Section 383
Email: reder at huey.jpl.nasa.gov
Phone (Voice): 818-354-3639
Phone (FAX): 818-354-4357
Mail Address:
Mail Stop: 171-113
4800 Oak Grove Dr.
Pasadena, CA. 91109
---------------------------------------------------



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 20 07:23:24 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:23:24 -0700
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com> <bct498$mnjrt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <8da5fvsnidpjtblgfj4484spso2t9e6r95@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bcuqp3$nl9um$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

| Perhaps I did something wrong ? Does anyone here know how
| to make things work ? This is what I got in a DOS window in '98 :

| C:\Python>python word_list.py word_source.txt >word_target.txt
|

John ...

The version you have should run without any command-line arguments
but requires that the input file be named word_source.txt ...

    python word_list.py

The file names are hard-coded in the program
and would require editing these lines to change
the file names ...

    path_in   = 'word_source.txt'
    path_dups = 'word_dups.txt'
    path_out  = 'word_target.txt'

I've up-loaded a second version that does require arguments
for path_in and path_out but leaves the temporary dups file
named as word_dups.txt ...

    python word_list.py somefile_In.txt somefile_Out.txt

    You can use any file names and
    you don't need the  ">"  redirection character ...

The only changes in the program are in the lines posted above
which now read ...

    path_in   = sys.argv[ 1 ]
    path_dups = 'word_dups.txt'
    path_out  = sys.argv[ 2 ]

If you change these two lines,
there is no reason to download again ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jun  5 09:35:38 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:35:38 -0400
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3tidnU-lr6Ka1UKjXTWcqg@comcast.com>

"Chuck" <cdreward at riaa.com> wrote in message
news:m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0 at 4ax.com...
>
> I've hit a stumbling block while trying to pick up Python. I've
googled
> around, and I don't think I'm the first to have this question, but I
haven't
> been able to find an answer that explains things for me.

This same issue was discussed yesterday and the day before in another
thread.  You might read that also for more views and explanations.  My
answer to that applies to this.

TJR





From chris.lyon at spritenote.co.uk  Thu Jun 12 13:05:49 2003
From: chris.lyon at spritenote.co.uk (Chris Lyon)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 10:05:49 -0700
Subject: Scanning for local servers, getting a broadcast address
References: <d232c5e.0306090158.6d3c99d6@posting.google.com> <c9d82136.0306090725.1e351fe9@posting.google.com> <3ee4ae9b$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <c9d82136.0306091458.69d7e58d@posting.google.com> <3ee52fdc$0$49111$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3EE53422.71BED28B@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <d232c5e.0306120905.6bd83518@posting.google.com>

Thank you all very much for your help.Today is the first chance I've
had to look at all this. This certainly seems to work,and I am
especially greatful for the sockopt element as I don't think I'd have
found those parameters in a month of sundays but of course it
introduces another problem.

How do I handle the responses from the other servers within the same
application?

I obviously can't reply by broadcasting from the other servers it will
all end in noise and collisions.

and since I'm using UDP I have to actually chat with the remote server
that has replied to establish a presence, because I presumably could
loose a servers reply in the co-cofeny that would result if there are
lots of servers.

I seem to be a want to do something a bit like:-

serverdict={}

s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM,
socket.IPPROTO_UDP)
s.bind( ('', 2003) )
while 1:
        (rfd,wfd,efd)=select.select([s],[s],[])
        if s in rfd:
                (string, address) = s.recvfrom(100)
                print 'string: %s' % string
                print 'from: %s' % str(address)
                serverdict[str(address)] = string
                print '--------------------------------'
        if s in wfd:
		s.sendto('hello\n', ('<broadcast>', 2003))
		###wrong obviously
		time.sleep(1)


but the time.sleep(1) is obviously a mistake here.

That seems to mean two different threads one for listening and one for
shouting but again I seem unable to bind the ports without getting
error messages about port already in use.

In the end I will be moving data across TCP so I will be running a TCP
handler here as well.So perhaps I should have the acknowledgements
come back via a TCP connection established by the remote servers back
to the original server, which presumably has to be quite efficient to
deal with the large number (upto about 250 theoretically).

Select therefore seems to be the way to go but how does one get the
write side send out say three messages and sleep within it, or does
one expect the remote servers to send upto n times until they get a
specific acknowledgement.

I'm sorry if this has turned into a 'Please write my programme for me'
but I feel a really horrible solution emerging if I'm not careful.
Once the connections are established I only really wont to get a small
chunk of data back from the remote servers which is a list of
available files so and I shouldn't be needing anything heavy once I've
got past this problem of identifiying the remote machines. On the
windows only version I parsed netview which worked most of the time,
but as I originally said this is now a windows linux endeveor so a
pythonic solution would be SO much more controllable.

Oh what a viscous web we weave when we are trying to get a list of
other machines out there.



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Jun 15 11:38:26 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:38:26 +0200
Subject: for a in range(1000000) :
In-Reply-To: <3EEC8FAC.5020202@wanadoo.es>
References: <3EEC8AED.5050808@wanadoo.es> <210Ha.159053$d51.227807@sccrnsc01> <3EEC8FAC.5020202@wanadoo.es>
Message-ID: <20030615153826.GA3251@nl.linux.org>

Maurix wrote:
> Thanks, exactly what i mean! And it was a built-in function! I'm blind!

You may also be interested in itertools.repeat, included with Python
as of Python 2.3. It is even faster. See this post by Alex Martelli
on the python-dev mailinglist:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036359.html

FWIW, I have sent a docpatch to include this information in the
standard library documentation:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=754632&group_id=5470&atid=305470

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
129. If a man's wife be surprised (in flagrante delicto) with another
man, both shall be tied and thrown into the water, but the husband may
pardon his wife and the king his slaves.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From andrew at acooke.org  Fri Jun 20 19:56:31 2003
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:56:31 -0400
Subject: Alternatives to Python ?
In-Reply-To: <3EF18A03.3050706@netspace.net.au> (Gary Duncan's message of
 "Thu, 19 Jun 2003 20:01:39 +1000")
References: <3EF18A03.3050706@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <87el1ouwuo.fsf@acooke.org>

you could try downloading the book from
http://www.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/ - it tries (successfully!) to
introduce different approaches to programming through subsets of the
oz/mozart language (so you get the equivalent of several languages in
your one book).  alternatively, wait til it's published by mit (soon,
i believe), and then buy it (cheaper than printing it out, i suspect,
as it's a big book).

note that the download will go when the book comes out.

andrew

ps i have a list of other free books at 
http://www.acooke.org/andrew/writing/free-comp-books.html


Gary Duncan <gmduncan at netspace.net.au> writes:
> There's been occasional not-unfavourable comments in this news-group
> about the pros-and-cons of other so-called "high-level-languages" like
> Ruby, and Haskell , and others too.
>
> I can't afford to buy more than one such book from the list of HLLs;
> so what would you suggest ?
>
>
> - Gary  (currently reading "Don Qixote - for Dummies" - hilarious )
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

-- 
http://www.acooke.org





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Jun  4 12:22:21 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:22:21 -0400
Subject: a wierd parameter passing behavior
References: <5ca99eab.0306040529.2d6f85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pXWdnQLmdt1cgUOjXTWcpA@comcast.com>

"Torvo Sollazzo" <mpradella at yahoo.it> wrote in message
news:5ca99eab.0306040529.2d6f85 at posting.google.com...
> I found a strange parameter passing behavior in Python (v. 2.2.2).
> Look at this piece of code:
> def p(l) :
>     l += [3]
>     l[0] = 2
>
> def p1(l) :
>     l = l + [3]
>     l[0] = 2
...
> Why p1() is different from p()?  The list l should be passed by
> reference in both cases,

We just had a long discussion on another thread about 'pass by value'
versus 'pass by reference' versus what Python does, which is to bind
local parameter names to actual arguments.  I strongly recommend
sticking with the binding view.

> while it seems that "l = l + [3]" creates a new local variable, also
called l.

Better put: both functions have one local name (variable) 'l'.  The
first mutates the object bound to l.  The second leave the original
object alone and rebinds l to a new object.  In this case, the new
object has a different value, but that is not essential.  The new
object is not a new 'variable'.

Terry J. Reedy






From leej at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Jun 16 09:15:33 2003
From: leej at dsl.pipex.com (Lee John Moore)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 13:15:33 GMT
Subject: class variable declarations...
Message-ID: <bckftl$k0pe7$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de>

Is using __init__() to force the setting of various class attributes really not
frowned upon?  Or is there another way of doing this that's considered more
acceptable?

class SpeedTouchComm:
	"Interface with the SpeedTouch router"
	def __init__(self, connect, uid, pwd, rtuid, rtpwd):
		self.connect = connect
		self.uid = uid
		self.pwd = pwd
		self.rtuid = rtuid
		self.rtpwd = rtpwd

It just seems against the law to be creating instances of SpeedTouchComm and
accessing class attributes that aren't even referred to outside the __init__()
function.

My biggest mental block with python seems to be undeclared variables.  A
declaration block alone is handy for reference.  Statically typed languages
have really messed me up.  Is there a therapy group for refugees?  ;-)
-- 
"However far you may travel in this world, you
will still occupy the same volume of space."
                - Traditional Ur-Bororo saying



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sat Jun  7 12:43:07 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 7 Jun 2003 09:43:07 -0700
Subject: finding origin of names
References: <gozptIAYyc4+EwH6@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.1054987218.24496.python-list@python.org> <Y64HZKA1Ke4+Ewhj@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306070843.4ac68402@posting.google.com>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<Y64HZKA1Ke4+Ewhj at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>...
> In article <mailman.1054987218.24496.python-list at python.org>, Andreas
> Jung <lists at andreas-jung.com> writes
> >What is the usecase for this? It looks to me that you should verify your
> >data-model...I have never been in a situation during my 10 year Python 
> >experience
> >where I have to check this.
> >
> >-aj
> >
> >--On Samstag, 7. Juni 2003 12:29 Uhr +0100 Robin Becker 
> ><robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> ..... we have a semi-automatic drawing editor for naive users. They can
> set properties to red/blue etc and the editor attempts to find a
> suitable origin for the object (ie a Color instance defined in some
> module). Our current approach  doesn't care if the module defines these
> or imports them, but it would make sense for us to use the 'original
> source'.

If I understand correctly you want inspect.getsource or inspect.getmodule
or inspect.getsourcefile or something like that ...


                                Michele



From cliechti at gmx.net  Wed Jun  4 18:50:49 2003
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 00:50:49 +0200
Subject: PySerial rereads its own data
References: <mailman.1054592105.28065.python-list@python.org> <3EDBE18C.2C58B42E@engcorp.com> <mailman.1054662920.14931.python-list@python.org> <bbjl2p$a1ndg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.1054711687.11581.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93918A6A26F0cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at attbi.com> wrote in
news:mailman.1054711687.11581.python-list at python.org: 
> When I wrote to ttyS0 (from PySerial) the data was correctly displayed
> via the cat process.  However, if I then read from ttyS0 via PySerial
> I would get back the same data even though cat was clearly not writing
> anything.
> 
> Anyway, I've discovered since that it only happens when using cat
> (having another PySerial process doesn't have this problem).  Even
> though 'stty -F /dev/ttySn' didn't show any odd flags, I'm guessing
> that somehow some echoing was enabled. 

yes. echoing is usualy enabled because of serial terminals/consoles, i.e. 
when you run getty on the serial port, but the port is already initialized 
with these settings even if you never run getty...

you can actualy have a line editor on the serial port, so that the serial 
driver only forwards complete lines to the listening process and all that 
beacuse of the ancient serial terminals (not that they aren't usefulnowdays 
;-)

> PySerial explicitly disables
> echoing on ttyS0, so I'm guessing some default setting on ttyS1 was
> causing the data to get reflected back to ttyS0.  Not really an
> educated guess but my concern about it disappeared when I discovered I
> wouldn't be facing that problem anyway (unless I use cat in my
> production code <wink>). 

:-)

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>




From edcjones at erols.com  Mon Jun  2 23:16:40 2003
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 23:16:40 -0400
Subject: Is there a better way of coding this?
In-Reply-To: <T0qCa.23525$YZ6.1157240@news010.worldonline.dk>
References: <bbd6so$4sb$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <T0qCa.23525$YZ6.1157240@news010.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <bbh41b$9h7$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Anders J. Munch wrote:

> # very much untested code follows:
> def makeprop(getname, truename, funnanme):
>     def fget(self):
>         # Subtle error processing here.
>         setattr(self, truename, getattr(self, funname)(self.data))
>         return getattr(self, truename)
>     return property(fget, None, None)
> 
> class X(object):
>     i = makeprop('geti', '_i', 'Fgeti')
>     ...

Here is a working version:

def makeprop(truename, funname):
     def fget(self):
         setattr(self, truename, getattr(self, funname)())
         return getattr(self, truename)
     return property(fget, None, None)

class X(object):
     i = makeprop('_i', 'Fi')

     def __init__(self, k):
         self.k = k

     def Fi(self):
         return self.k

x = X(11)
print x.i

Thanks for the help,
Ed Jones




From P at draigBrady.com  Thu Jun  5 05:58:26 2003
From: P at draigBrady.com (P at draigBrady.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 10:58:26 +0100
Subject: Python proper on Linux, `.a' vs `.so'
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054777509.29633.python-list@python.org>
References: <oqk7c1qqf1.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca> <mailman.1054777509.29633.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EDF1442.7090408@draigBrady.com>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Does Linux share .so's across different applications? If not, all 
> you save is some hard disk space.

Yes the text is shared across apps so memory is saved.
The other big advantage of a .so is that it can
be upgraded independently of the programs that use it.

P?draig.




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun 25 11:27:20 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:27:20 -0500
Subject: Platform-independent way to refer to execute path
In-Reply-To: <bdce1p$rqsr5$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>
References: <bdce1p$rqsr5$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <16121.48984.122930.895010@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    MK> What would be the best platform-independent way to refer to the
    MK> current (execute) path for a Python script?

How about:

    #!/usr/bin/env python

    import os
    import sys

    print os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0])

Skip




From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Mon Jun  2 14:45:46 2003
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:45:46 +0200
Subject: python bibliography manager. Newbie.
References: <7b144ff3.0306020655.5e947f58@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns938ED348212D7cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

Bob,

>can I do this with python:-
 
> Take an endnote refer file or other bibliography data (TSV OVID
> Medline etc etc etc) and load the data into a table.

Yes.

> Create a GUI for the application.
Yes.

> ODBC link to other apps.
Yes.

> create a stand-alone executable.
Depends on your definition of "stand-alone". A stand-alone .exe needs some 
.PYD and .DLL, all freely distributable.

And: 
if you google for this application, I think there is a python one out there



From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jun 12 22:38:02 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:38:02 +1200
Subject: Glue code
In-Reply-To: <2996386.1055452530@dbforums.com>
References: <2996386.1055452530@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <bcbc3b$hf4ub$2@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

DB_RobertP wrote:
> What systems do people use to easily make C/C++ code visible to Python?

You might like to take a look at my current
work-in-progress:

    http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/

It only connects directly with C so far, not C++,
although you can handle C++ if you write C wrappers
around it.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From terry at wayforward.net  Fri Jun  6 16:03:44 2003
From: terry at wayforward.net (Terence Way)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:03:44 -0400
Subject: ANN: Design By Contract for Python 1.0 beta 2
Message-ID: <FA427DF5-9859-11D7-BD8E-00039344A0EC@wayforward.net>

Announcing Design By Contract for Python 1.0 beta 2
(Changes since last announcement at end of this email)

Design by Contract is familiar to anyone who has spent time with the
Eiffel programming language.  This implementation is a cross between
full Eiffel-style contracts and the doctest module.

Contracts are high-level assertions that are part of the program's
documentation.  Modules and classes have invariants, expressions that
must be true at the start and end of every public function or method
call.  Methods and functions have pre-conditions, expressions that must
be true on entry; and post-conditions, expressions that must be true
on exit.

     http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/

This version supports the full contract feature set:
   * pre: expressions in function and method docstrings;
   * post: expressions in function and method docstrings;
   * inv: expressions in class and module docstrings;
   * post: expressions can access __old__ values and the __return__
     value;
   * pre: expressions are weakened by derived methods; and
   * post: and inv: expressions are tightened by derived classes.

Version 1.0 beta 2  - 06 June 2003
   * Use separate exception classes eg PreconditionViolationError
     instead of AssertionError
   * Correctly weaken pre-conditions: they are not ORed; instead, if
     a method fails its precondition and an overridden method's pre-
     conditions are still valid, raise an InvalidPreconditionError.
   * Support Re-Structured Text (ReST) by allowing :: after pre, post,
     inv keywords
   * Invariants aren't checked after constructor throws exception
   * Only scan for code objects actually defined in specified module,
     not just all objects in module namespace
   * Save docstring line numbers, useful when raising exceptions to tell
     where in the code the exception actually came from.

<P><A HREF="http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/">Contract 1.0 
beta2</A> -
Design By Contract for Python.  (06-Jun-03)





From gh at ghaering.de  Sat Jun  7 09:14:47 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 15:14:47 +0200
Subject: Play a short sound...
In-Reply-To: <PnlEa.55289$pR3.1169900@news1.tin.it>
References: <PnlEa.55289$pR3.1169900@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3EE1E547.6060809@ghaering.de>

Manuel wrote:
> I'm almost a newbie in python...
> 
> Exist a way to play a short sound (i.e. .wav) ?

You seem to be using Outlook Express. You're probably interested in 
doing this on Windows?

There's a winsound module in the standard library that can do this.

-- Gerhard





From mickel at csc.fi  Thu Jun 12 01:16:13 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:16:13 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Need urgent solution......................
In-Reply-To: <20030611173222.21827.qmail@webmail27.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0306120811410.19660-100000@sampo.csc.fi>

On 11 Jun 2003, Suresh  Kumar wrote:

> Hi,
>
>    I am using python and tkinter. My question is a simple one. How
> to find number of pixels that a text occupies in canvas? In
> otherwords how can i get the width of the text whose width is not
> set explicitly? I have placed a text, say "Hello World",  in the
> canvas using "create_text" and want to find number pixels that it
> occupies.

I reckon this is what you want:

-------------------------------------------------
import Tkinter

root        = Tkinter.Tk()
canvas      = Tkinter.Canvas(root)
canvas.pack()
text        = canvas.create_text(100,100,text="Hello World!")
x0,y0,x1,y1 = canvas.bbox(text) ## The coords of the bounding box
rect        = canvas.create_rectangle(x0,y0,x1,y1) ## To demonstrate
textwidth   = x1-x0 ## The width of the text in pixels
print textwidth ## To demonstrate
root.mainloop()
-------------------------------------------------

Cheers,

/Mickel

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi






From nospam at nospam.net  Tue Jun 17 16:29:46 2003
From: nospam at nospam.net (c42)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:29:46 GMT
Subject: Error when accessing remote registry
Message-ID: <MPG.195944633bcdf771989681@news2.atlantic.net>

I'm using the following code to check the registry on a remote machine. 
(I have administrative rights over the domain.) The code works fine when 
it hits a Windows 2000 Pro or Windows XP Pro box, but crashes when it 
hits Windows NT4 workstation (WindowsError: [Errno 87] The parameter is 
incorrect). Does anyone have any suggestions? (WinXP Pro, Python 2.2.3, 
win32all 152)

Thanks,
c42

-----------------------------
Sample code:
MachName = "TEST_1"
aReg = ConnectRegistry(MachName,HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)        
aKey = OpenKey(aReg, r"SOFTWARE\\Network Associates\\TVD\\Shared 
Components\\On Access Scanner\\McShield\\Configuration") 
-----------------------------

Error:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Program Files\ActiveState Komodo 2.3\callkomodo\kdb.py", line 
430, in _do_start
    self.kdb.run(code_ob, locals, locals)
  File "C:\Python22\lib\bdb.py", line 349, in run
    exec cmd in globals, locals
  File "C:\Documents and Settings\Chardee.WAYNEFIRE\My Documents
\Personal Projects\Python\Code\CLH\Search domain registries for info
\AVExclusionScan.py", line 92, in ?
    aKey = OpenKey(aReg, r"SOFTWARE\\Network Associates\\TVD\\Shared 
Components\\On Access Scanner\\McShield\\Configuration")
WindowsError: [Errno 87] The parameter is incorrect



From edcjones at erols.com  Sun Jun  1 11:33:22 2003
From: edcjones at erols.com (Edward C. Jones)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 11:33:22 -0400
Subject: Examples of descriptors?
In-Reply-To: <vonCa.30145$ca5.3622@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
References: <bba9u0$li0$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <vonCa.30145$ca5.3622@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bbd6ek$3qf$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> "Edward C. Jones"
> 
>>What, exactly, is a "descriptor"? The closest thing to a definition that
>>I can find is: a class that defines __get__, __set__, and __delete__.
>>Where can I find some examples?
> 
> 
> Here is a draft write-up on descriptors:
>     http://tinyurl.com/d63d
> 
> Parts to be added:
> * data descriptors
> * more detail behind object.__getattribute__
> 
> Comments are welcome.

Very good essay. It's what I was looking for.

Any idea when new classes will be documented in the official Python 
documnetation?

Thanks,
Ed jones





From glauco at sferacarta.com  Fri Jun 20 04:39:57 2003
From: glauco at sferacarta.com (Glauco)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:39:57 GMT
Subject: XML parser: fast/slow?
References: <3ef1d480.1238136453@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <xLzIa.107044$lK4.3020195@twister1.libero.it>

Henk wrote:
> Dear Pythonians,
> 
> I am using the minidom from the xml.dom package. I am using the
> parse-functionality written in that module to parse xml-files into a
> DOM-tree. The larger the file the slower the process, of course.
> 
> But I wonder wether there are modules/packages out there which use a
> C-implementation of the parsing which could speed up things
> significantly. Any ideas/suggestions?
> 
> Thanks for your time,
> 
> Henk

Read here :
http://uche.ogbuji.net/uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2003-01-01/domlettes

http://www.reportlab.com/xml/pyrxp.html


Glauco




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Jun 26 17:40:43 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:40:43 -0400
Subject: XML
Message-ID: <bh2++kKkXEoW092yn@gnosis.cx>         

mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) wrote previously:
|   And there isn't much to XML.  There's a first line of
|version information... Then there's
|the XML object, of the form
|        <bracket metadata> contents </bracket>
|Add a shortcut <bracket metatdata />

Add entity escaping
Add namespace declarations
Add namespace modified tags
Add namespace modified attributes
Add CDATA sections
Add Processing Instructions
Add Character entities
Add Numeric entities
Add DTD declarations
Add infoset modification
Add validation against DTDs
Add comments
Add whitespace normalization
Add specification of ignorable and non-ignorable whitespace

... and then you're almost there.

What could be easier?

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.




From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Sat Jun 14 11:03:03 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 08:03:03 -0700
Subject: html on Python
References: <mailman.1055523445.13503.python-list@python.org> <3EEA150B.85218876@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0306140703.4bd7c18f@posting.google.com>

wxWindows and its python port wxPython has a wxHtmlWindow and assoc.
classes for displaying html pages in a window with proper rendering.
It works with local files and files on the internet. 

This is something which matches your rather vague requirement, off the
top of my head.

Try www.wxpython.org or post your requirement to the wxwindows 
mailing list.

Anand Pillai


Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3EEA150B.85218876 at engcorp.com>...
> Luiz Siqueira wrote:
> > 
> > I need some html browser or some package to work with html for my project, 
> > I try Grail but it have a lot of deprecated code.
> 
> Please provide (much) more detail about what you are trying to accomplish.
> There are a dozen ways to work with HTML, but which is best depends entirely
> on what you are doing.  "Work with HTML" is a pretty vague description.
> 
> -Peter



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Jun 12 17:15:27 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:15:27 +0200
Subject: Module like Perl's Date::Calc
In-Reply-To: <20030613055439.2adeb3b9.rm@no-mail.com>
References: <20030613055439.2adeb3b9.rm@no-mail.com>
Message-ID: <20030612211527.GA16347@nl.linux.org>

Roy Marteen wrote:
> I am new to Python. I used to program in Perl, and I used a lot of
> function from Date::Calc module in Perl. I am just wondering is there any
> similar module in Python? 

Python 2.3 has a datetime module, which is very good.
$ python -c 'import datetime; print datetime.datetime.now()'
2003-06-12 23:13:46.530214
$ python -c 'import datetime; print datetime.datetime.now() - datetime.datetime(1985,8,13)'
6512 days, 23:14:26.666743

See also: http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-datetime.html

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
198. If he put out the eye of a freed man, or break the bone of a freed
man, he shall pay one gold mina.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From doug at notAvalidEmail.com  Thu Jun 12 11:15:21 2003
From: doug at notAvalidEmail.com (Doug)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:15:21 GMT
Subject: pythonCOM with Flash
References: <RvPFa.37$zx6.1430@news.optus.net.au> <3ee87647$0$13808$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <dO0Ga.57821$4_1.15158275@twister.nyc.rr.com>

I'm  also very interested in flash/python. in paticular porting amfphp to
python. i'm pretty busy recently with work but would like to get in touch
with others who feel they might be interested in porting amfphp to python.
if you reply to this i'll email you privately if you want, my email in this
post is no-valid.

Cheers,
Doug

"Guyon Mor?e" <gumuz at looze.net> wrote in message
news:3ee87647$0$13808$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net...
> I am afraid that I can not answer this question for you, but I am very
> interested in the Flash/Python combination though. I allways like to try
out
> new gui/code combinations.
>
> Please let me know if you have any url's or something like that
>
>
> "Bradley Schatz" <bradley at greystate.com> wrote in message
> news:RvPFa.37$zx6.1430 at news.optus.net.au...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am attempting to use Flash as a UI for a python program. I have
> > successfully prototyped this using VB/Flash, and am not trying to
convert
> it
> > over to work with python.
> >
> > My problem is this, when I run the following code (attached below)
nothing
> > happens.
> >
> > I assume that the Flash activex component needs to be placed in some
> > container to be seen, as I am not seeing any window come up when I run
> this.
> >
> > Could anyone suggest how to embed this into a container?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > Bradley
> >
> >
> >
> > # Flashevents - test flash/python interop
> > from win32com.client import DispatchWithEvents, Dispatch
> > import msvcrt, pythoncom
> > import time, sys
> > import types
> >
> > import threading
> > stopEvent = threading.Event()
> >
> > def TestFlash():
> >     class FlashEvents:
> >  def OnFSCommand(self, command, args):
> >   print "FSCommend" , command
> >  def OnProgress(self, percentDone):
> >   print "PercentDone", percentDone
> >  def OnReadyStateChange(self, newState):
> >   print "State", newState
> >
> >     e = DispatchWithEvents("ShockwaveFlash.ShockwaveFlash", FlashEvents)
> >     e.seen_events = {}
> >     e.LoadMovie(0,
> > "http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/afassets/flash/hump_starwars.swf")
> >     e.Play()
> >     if not _WaitForFinish(e, 10000):
> >         e.Quit()
> >
> >
> >
> > def _WaitForFinish(ob, timeout):
> >     end = time.time() + timeout
> >     while 1:
> >         if msvcrt.kbhit():
> >             msvcrt.getch()
> >             break
> >         pythoncom.PumpWaitingMessages()
> >         stopEvent.wait(.2)
> >         if stopEvent.isSet():
> >             stopEvent.clear()
> >             break
> >
> >     return 1
> >
> >
> > def test():
> >     import sys
> >     TestFlash()
> >
> > if __name__=='__main__':
> >     test()
> >
> >
> >
>
>





From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Fri Jun  6 11:00:15 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:00:15 -0400
Subject: Jython and Java 3D - Has it been done?
Message-ID: <3EE0AC7F.7030804@optonline.com>

Shaun writes -

 >Having just finished a port of Visual Python 3D Package (
 >http://www.vpython.org ) to the Wedge immersive 3D environment (
 >http://ephebe.anu.edu.au/wedge/index.html), I am wondering if anyone 
 >has  succesfully used the Java3D package with Jython? Failing that, 
has >it been attempted?

Certainly looking forward to see/hear more about your VPython efforts. 
 From your note on the VPython list, it seems that the release of some 
source code may not be far off.

Early in my exploration of Python, (which was early in the life of 
Java3d), I did enough experimentation to find that it is realistic to 
access its functionality through Jython with what, for my purposes, was 
decent performance.  It was actually the release of VPython - which was 
actually better sutited for my purposes - that allowed me to abandon the 
effort to get into Java3d at any level of depth.

But somewhere deep in the recesses of my hard drive is some 
Jython/Java3d demo code.  I do remember actually coming across and 
reporting a JPython bug uncovered to those efforts, that was quickly 
attended to by the Jython development folks.

If you are looking at some sort of port of VPython like functionality, 
it is my not very firm opinion that it might be better accomplished by 
going directly to one of the Java for OpenGL implmenentations, like 
GL4Java. http://www.jausoft.com/gl4java.html

It can also be readily driven from Jython.

I would love you for it.

Art

Art






From Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com  Thu Jun  5 12:29:11 2003
From: Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com (POYEN OP Olivier (DCL))
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:29:11 +0200
Subject: data base
Message-ID: <8963D6370B323E4AA3241200F0EAF7318C0EE6@FCEXVEXM002.dcl.int.dexwired.net>

There is a wide range of db you can use. 

For small data size requirement (which is perhaps what you means by MS Access), I think you'll be quite happy with gadfly though. 

HTH,

OPQ


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Alex [mailto:alexferri at email.it]
> Envoy? : jeudi 5 juin 2003 18:21
> ? : python-list at python.org
> Objet : data base
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I'm newbie
> 
> What is the cross-platform/free data base that I can use in 
> my project?
> 
> The data base not need of server db such as SQL 
> server/Oracle/mySql, but
> like a MS Access.
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> Alex - Italy
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
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From goboborz at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 19 10:59:12 2003
From: goboborz at yahoo.com (Gobo Borz)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:59:12 -0500
Subject: cgi getlist() problem (my first python program)
Message-ID: <3EF1CFC0.2010803@yahoo.com>

Hi,

This is my first Python program, and I'm having problems with  cgi 
getlist() skipping values in a multi-row html form.

I have a typical multi-row html form with fields like "name", "phone", 
"department", etc.  The "phone" field is named "phone" in every row, the 
name field is named "name" in every row, etc.  When I use getlist() to 
get the field values, it skips empty fields. Thus, phone[4], for 
example, may  turn out to be in a different row than name[4], depending 
on which fields the user has left blank.

Even if I force a space in the field with javascript on the client side, 
the python FOR loop skips the blank values.  But that wouldn't be a very 
pretty solution anyway.

I hope I'm not missing something obvious. It seems like this would be a 
common problem for anyone coding a multi-row html form.

Thanks for your help,

Gobo

P.S. Sorry, if this appears twice.  I posted through Google about 16 
hours ago, but I'm posting again because I don't see it.




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jun  8 22:57:03 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 22:57:03 -0400
Subject: program path
References: <fyvEa.17336$pK2.23786@news.indigo.ie> <3EE28ABC.7D6DB511@engcorp.com> <D0wEa.17343$pK2.23880@news.indigo.ie> <3EE2AD6E.933C6ED7@engcorp.com> <mailman.1055048954.23011.python-list@python.org> <3EE36B46.343D8774@engcorp.com> <3EE36E0D.3050604@ghaering.de> <mailman.1055095297.9391.python-list@python.org> <3EE38F1A.6B4CDEE@engcorp.com> <mailman.1055101936.29748.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE3F77F.D7F0B2CE@engcorp.com>

Steven Taschuk wrote:
> 
> Quoth Peter Hansen:
>   [...]
> > See Mike's reply... it works fine.
> 
> Good to know.
> 
> > So basically os.path.abspath(sys.argv[0]) should be the idiomatic
> > way to find the full path where the __main__ script lives.
> 
> I notice the alternative
>     sys.modules['__main__'].__file__
> which I like because it generalizes easily to arbitrary modules,
> as the sys.argv[0] approach does not.  Does this alternative have
> any disadvantages I'm not seeing?

Not available pre-2.3, as far as I know.  Fails under 2.2 anyway.

-Peter



From marshall at spamhole.com  Tue Jun 17 00:16:21 2003
From: marshall at spamhole.com (marshall)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 21:16:21 -0700
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <4017400e.0306162016.b0f8c6c@posting.google.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message news:<BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985 at news2.tin.it>...
[Quoting another thread]
> "To claim that the strong, static type checking constraints in C++, Java, or
> C# will prevent you from writing broken programs is clearly an illusion
> (you know this from personal experience). In fact, what we need is 
> 
> Strong testing, not strong typing."

Most of the code I come across in strong typed languages makes heavy
use of type coercion.  So how does typing help if you are just going
to coerce everything?

I was recently stung by this [apologies for VB code]:

Dim lDelaySec As Integer
Dim lDelayTicks As Double
lDelaySec = Fix(Val(Text1.Text))
lDelayTicks = lDelaySec * 1000
Text3.Text = Str(lDelayTicks)

Works fine for values of lDelaySec less than 32 but you get a buffer
overflow for larger values.  I guess type checking would have caught
it for me but how stupid is it that I can't multiply an integer, enen
though I prepared for the fact that the result might be a double
(lDelaySec as an Integer was a given).  So I have to coerce the result
- type checking does me no good anyway.

Marshall



From manuelbastioni at tin.it  Fri Jun 20 16:27:04 2003
From: manuelbastioni at tin.it (manuel)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:27:04 GMT
Subject: os.listdir()
Message-ID: <s6KIa.218256$g92.4546830@news2.tin.it>

Hi,

I'm looking for the listdir function in os module,
to study it, but I can't find the

def listdir(self):
    etc...


Excuse for my poor eglish.
Where is the function listdir definition?

Thanks in advance,

           Manuel







From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Jun 15 04:55:58 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:55:58 GMT
Subject: getting info out of a list.
References: <7tntr-qa9.ln1@grendel.myth>
Message-ID: <ywWGa.91895$pR3.1952401@news1.tin.it>

<posted & mailed>

Jim Richardson wrote:

> I have the following code
> 
> for wires in wirelist.keys():
>         bits=wirelist[wires]
>         Wire=("GW",wires,bits)
>         print Wire
> 
> 
> Which, depending on the data in wirelist, results in something like,
> 
> ('GW', 1, (11, 0, -500, 0, 0, 500, 0, 10))
> 
> 
> But what I want is
> 
> ('GW', 1, 11, 0, -500, 0, 0, 500, 0, 10)
> 
> I want the tuple that is returned from the dict wirelist, to be added as
> individual elements, rather than a tuple of individual elements, to the
> list "bits"
> 
> (I hope I have explained this properly)

Well, not quite -- there seems to be some tuple-vs-lits confusions in
your text vs your code, as well as some confusion as to what gets added
to what else.  But I think what you want is, roughly:

    Wire = ('GW', wires) + wirelist[wires]

i.e., you want to CONCATENATE the wirelist[wires] tuple right after
the two-items tuple whose first item is 'GW' and whose second item
is wires.  Python does express sequence concatenation as 'adding'
(i.e., it uses the plus sign to indicate it).


Alex




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun 23 01:12:38 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:12:38 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jun 23)
Message-ID: <vfd3268egob522@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW: "In any project that is multi-threaded, most bugs will come
from threading issues.  This is regardless of programming language
-- it's a deep, as yet ununderstood property of threads."
                                            -- Guido van Rossum

"[T]he easiest way to find Python work, for now, is to make it
yourself."                                  -- Jeff Hinrichs


Discussion:
    Michael Chermside gives us the low-down on range() and xrange(),
    and what might happen to them in the future.
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=16e5a03c10182403#link5>

    Gerhard H?ring illustrates the security problem with na?ve SQL
    quoting, demonstrating that quoting should be left to DB-API
    modules.
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=3f45d8f41426e94d#link4>

    Alex Martelli explains why the new sum() built-in doesn't do
    strings.
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=36c124ddab97e1a#link5>

    plpython -- Python for server-side scripting in PostgreSQL --
    might be doomed.
        <http://groups.google.com/groups?th=f74737bc2cceeef6#link4>

Announcements:
    The sixth ICFP Programming Contest starts on June 28th.
        <http://icfpcontest.org/>

    aspects-0.1.2: A python package that enables Aspect-Oriented
    Programming in Python.
        <http://www.logilab.org/aspects/>

    Design By Contract for Python 1.0 beta 3: This implementation is a
    cross between full Eiffel-style contracts and the doctest module.
        <http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/>

    JOTWeb 1.11: A system for developing dynamic web sites using a
    combination of HTML+TAL/TALES/METAL and Python, with mod_python
    for integrating with Apache.
        <http://jotweb.tummy.com/>

    PubTal Version 1.0: A template-driven web site publisher suitable
    for small web sites.
        <http://www.owlfish.com/software/PubTal/>

    pylint-0.1.2: A python tool that checks if a module satisfies a
    coding standard.
        <http://www.logilab.org/pylint/>

    wxPython 2.4.1.2: A Python extension module that wraps the popular
    wxWindows cross platform GUI library.
        <http://wxpython.org/download.php>


========================================================================
Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of summarizing action on the
    python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  5 09:11:33 2003
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 06:11:33 -0700
Subject: PIL and py2exe Issues
References: <283adf56.0306041002.4b2d456f@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054797249.29208.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <283adf56.0306050511.3313c89a@posting.google.com>

Thanks - that makes sense now.



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jun 10 18:20:23 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:20:23 -0700
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <mailman.1055217438.10041.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE659A7.ACB69552@alcyone.com>

Roman Suzi wrote:

> the syntax is confusing, because "as" already has a meaning of
> "to be known as":

I don't find it all that confusing, since `as' has such a subordinate
meaning.  It's pretty clear to me, and I would think it pretty clear to
even a newbie, that something like

	def f() as staticmethod: ...

would clearly not be defining f as the name staticmethod, since that
would be better written def staticmethod(): ...

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
\__/  J. Robert Oppenheimer (quoting Hindu legend)



From nav at adams.patriot.net  Mon Jun 16 14:43:00 2003
From: nav at adams.patriot.net (Nick Vargish)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 14:43:00 -0400
Subject: insert thousands separators
References: <3EE9E548.9010701@isst.fhg.de> <yyyvfv9hpj9.fsf@adams.patriot.net> <mailman.1055529144.29572.python-list@python.org> <bcdu5e$chh$0@216.39.172.122> <yyy8ys2gm6v.fsf@adams.patriot.net> <mailman.1055772692.18861.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yyy3ci9hnij.fsf@adams.patriot.net>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

> So if you only want to print the fractional value, str() will do
> fine. But str() won't make floats capable of representing arbitrary
> numbers, either ;-)

If I really cared about floats, I could str(fval).split('.') -- after
checking for floatness, of course. But since I don't care about
floats, I'm gonna let it ride for now -- until it bites me in some
other context. :^)

Nick

-- 
# sigmask.py  ||  version 0.2  ||  2003-01-07  ||  Feed this to your Python.
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAqbusjpu/ofu?','')



From member31018 at dbforums.com  Tue Jun 10 17:23:34 2003
From: member31018 at dbforums.com (DB_RobertP)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:23:34 +0000
Subject: Porting Python
Message-ID: <2986845.1055280214@dbforums.com>

Hello,
Does anyone know if there are any useful links to places that document
the porting process of Python to other platforms? If anyone is
familiar with
python porting, any pointers would be helpful. I'm new to python and
I've
been rummaging through the language itself, its API and such. I know I'm
asking something very broad, but if anyone would care to comment, please
feel free. :]
Thanks,

Robert

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun  4 09:44:41 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:44:41 +0200
Subject: a wierd parameter passing behavior
In-Reply-To: <5ca99eab.0306040529.2d6f85@posting.google.com>
References: <5ca99eab.0306040529.2d6f85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030604134441.GA2357@nl.linux.org>

Torvo Sollazzo schreef op woensdag  4 juni om 15:31:51 +0000:
> def p(l) :
>     l += [3]
>     l[0] = 2
> 
> def p1(l) :
>     l = l + [3]
>     l[0] = 2

> Why p1() is different from p()?

p1 does not change l, p does. p1 creates a new l in it's own local
namespace, while p updates l: += equals .append(). This is documented
in the language reference:

"""
An augmented assignment expression like x += 1 can be rewritten as x = x + 1 to achieve a similar, but not exactly equal effect. In the augmented version, x is only evaluated once. Also, when possible, the actual operation is performed in-place, meaning that rather than creating a new object and assigning that to the target, the old object is modified instead.
"""
http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ref/augassign.html

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
206. If during a quarrel one man strike another and wound him, then he
shall swear, "I did not injure him wittingly," and pay the physicians.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From tweedgeezer at hotmail.com  Thu Jun  5 05:15:50 2003
From: tweedgeezer at hotmail.com (Jeremy Fincher)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 02:15:50 -0700
Subject: Yield inside try...finally
References: <bbiisd$76k$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <3EDCEC1F.96CB0766@hotmail.com> <bbkbi5$n97$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <3EDDC045.E45DA524@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <698f09f8.0306050115.76fd8f98@posting.google.com>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3EDDC045.E45DA524 at hotmail.com>...
> The real problem here is the fact that try..finally has been actively
> disabled inside generators, because Guido's language designers intuition
> tells him that the "contract" of finally clauses might be broken by their
> use inside a generator which might never resume. 

I wonder if he's considered relaxing that restriction to allow at most
*one* try: finally: block, or any number of try: finally: blocks whose
finally: clauses are identical (which is effectively equivalent to a
single finally: clause).  He could then just compile the finally code
into an __del__ method on the generator-iterator.

Jeremy



From legere at ll.mit.edu  Mon Jun 23 14:51:01 2003
From: legere at ll.mit.edu (Ronald Legere)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:51:01 -0400
Subject: New to Python...feedback?
References: <mailman.1056380026.28198.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <BWHJa.69$Du1.17@llnews.ll.mit.edu>

I took a look over your neat little game of 'discordia'.
---
It looks not too bad, considering you never programmed before.
---
You should consider getting an intro book though. "Learn to Program with
Python"
or  "Python programming for the absolute beginner" (Due out soon)
---
In the meantime, consider reading up about functions. you should "def" a few
to capture your common behavior.
---
FIN






From creedy at mitretek.org  Fri Jun 27 10:18:45 2003
From: creedy at mitretek.org (Chris Reedy)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:18:45 -0400
Subject: How to memoize functions?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.06.26.21.08.18.735289@unice.fr>
References: <3efb54b3$1_2@corp-news.newsgroups.com> <pan.2003.06.26.21.08.18.735289@unice.fr>
Message-ID: <3efc5383_6@corp.newsgroups.com>

Jerome Alet wrote:
> Le Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:29:07 -0400, Chris Reedy a ?crit :
> 
> 
>>The obvious way to memoize a function would be to keep a dictionary with
>>keys being tuples (or maybe dictio naries) of previous argument lists
>>and values being the results of the previous computations.
>>
>>Unfortunately, this will really mess up garbage collection, since
>>objects that are arguments could never be collected.
> 
> 
> first I must say that my answer is probably completely stupid.
> 
> however why would you want to use the original arguments tuple as a key ?

Actually, I chose that just because it was the most obvious. The next 
choice was a tuple of the ids of the arguments ...

> depending on the computational intensity of your original function, why
> not compute some sort of hash (like an hex md5sum) on all the arguments
> (converted to strings and concatenated) ?

This is certainly a possibility. However ...

> this way your original arguments would still be garbage collectable (well,
> at least I suppose), since only the hash would be used for the key.

That's true. Unfortunately, that misses the other half of the problem 
(which, admittedly, I didn't mention) which is that I would also like to 
be able to collect the results of the function, which could be complex 
data structures, as well as the arguments (which could be other 
instances of the same complex structures).

   Chris



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 11 10:55:02 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:55:02 +0100
Subject: Your Suggestion for a OOP beginner to learn Python and Java
References: <bc7c07$4uq$1@news.seed.net.tw>
Message-ID: <3EE742C6.8606384D@hotmail.com>

MiLF wrote:

> I am new to OOP, I know some other old programming language, I want/need to
> learn Python and Java, which language should I start to learn? Or, learn
> both at the same time? (for example, attending to both class at the same
> time)

I think the best way, especially if you have prior programming experience, is to
use jython, a python 2.1 interpreter implemented in java. This will not only
have the benefit of getting you up and running fast writing programs, but also
teach you the fundamental differences between python and java. You can program
in nice clear python to start off with, dipping into java every now and again
when you need to, and seamlessly integrating the two.

Most of the sample code you could want to run under Cpython, e.g. samples from
textbooks, will also run under jython. Cpython is just reaching version 2.3, and
contains a number of great features that jython doesn't (being based on 2.1).
But I don't think you would need to access those features for the purposes of
self-starter learning.

I thoroughly recommend Robert W. Bills book: "Jython for Java Programmers".
While this is a text intended primarily for Java programmers, it is also good
for someone who has previous programming experience, and understands things like
datatypes, function calls, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0735711119/002-2890944-3191208

Best of luck!

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From jtauber at jtauber.com  Wed Jun 25 11:25:43 2003
From: jtauber at jtauber.com (James Tauber)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:25:43 +0800
Subject: exposing tkconsole with shell in IDLE/IDLEfork
Message-ID: <20030625152543.7A622368AD@www.fastmail.fm>

As a way of achieving my previously mentioned goal of an interactive
Python prompt that can embed non-text in the output window, I made the
following modification in PyShell.ModifiedInterpreter.__init__ in IDLE
(that shipped with 2.2.3)

    def __init__(self, tkconsole):
        self.tkconsole = tkconsole
        locals = sys.modules['__main__'].__dict__

        # ADDED THIS LINE
        locals["tkconsole"] = tkconsole

        InteractiveInterpreter.__init__(self, locals=locals)
        self.save_warnings_filters = None

This works great! But trying the same thing in IDLEfork 0.9b1 doesn't
work. "tkconsole" is nowhere to be seen in the shell's locals.

So I have two questions:

  - is this the best way to expose tkconsole to the interactive prompt?
  (to enable python functions to output graphics, etc embedded in the
  output window)
  - what would I need to do to get this to work with IDLEfork?

Thanks

James
-- 
  James Tauber
  http://jtauber.com/




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun  4 11:21:07 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:21:07 -0500
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
In-Reply-To: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304F669E6@mail.hebmex.com>
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304F669E6@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <16094.3683.298847.221012@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    gca> Since decorators are in a dictionary, in what order should they be
    gca> applied? I though item extraction from a dictionary was, basically,
    gca> unordered.

Correct.  The advantage of a dictionary is that the individual elements can
be more complex.  For the pre- and post-condition stuff this works well.  To
use lists there you have to extend list constructor syntax somehow, as I
used in my original message:

    def foo(...) [pre=foo_pre, post=foo_post]:
        <normal code here>

You could also use strings:

    def foo(...) ['pre=foo_pre', 'post=foo_post']:
        <normal code here>

The compiler would presumably split them at the '=' and eval() the right
hand side where necessary to get at the actual value.

    gca> The idea of keeping them in a list (syntax #1) was that it's easy
    gca> to see the order they're going to be applied to the original
    gca> function.

Understood.

Skip




From haris.bogdanovic at zg.hinet.hr  Wed Jun 25 04:04:33 2003
From: haris.bogdanovic at zg.hinet.hr (Haris Bogdanovic)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:04:33 +0200
Subject: RuntimeError: could not create GladeXML object
Message-ID: <bdbl2g$2lct$1@as201.hinet.hr>

The following line gives me trouble:

wTree = gtk.glade.XML ("rbk.glade")

I get error message (subject line).

What can be cause of this ?

Here's the rbk.glade file :

> <?xml version="1.0"?>
> <GTK-Interface>
> 
> <project>
>   <name>rbk</name>
>   <program_name>rbk</program_name>
>   <directory></directory>
>   <source_directory>src</source_directory>
>   <pixmaps_directory>pixmaps</pixmaps_directory>
>   <language>C</language>
>   <gnome_support>True</gnome_support>
>   <gettext_support>True</gettext_support>
> </project>
> 
> <widget>
>   <class>GtkWindow</class>
>   <name>window1</name>
>   <title>window1</title>
>   <type>GTK_WINDOW_TOPLEVEL</type>
>   <position>GTK_WIN_POS_NONE</position>
>   <modal>False</modal>
>   <allow_shrink>False</allow_shrink>
>   <allow_grow>True</allow_grow>
>   <auto_shrink>False</auto_shrink>
> 
>   <widget>
>     <class>Placeholder</class>
>   </widget>
> </widget>
> 
> </GTK-Interface>

Thanks
Haris




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Fri Jun 27 15:44:52 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:44:52 -0600
Subject: regex plea for help
In-Reply-To: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B33CC@SRV-03>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030627133850.02785800@66.28.54.253>

At 03:29 PM 6/27/2003 -0400, jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com wrote:

>I'm trying to process through an apache log file and bust up the individual
>sections into a list for further processing. There is a regex I got from a
>php example that matches an entire line, but obviously, that only returns a
>single element list. re.split() doesn't see to be the tool to use. I think I
>need to define 'symbolic groups' in the regex to return them as distinct
>elements. If someone could provide information or relevent links I would be
>most appreciative.

Any part of a regular expression in parentheses is treated as a group.

 >>> import re
 >>> re.findall(r'(a)b(c)', 'abcabc')
[('a', 'c'), ('a', 'c')]
 >>>m=re.search(r'(a)b(c)', 'abcabc')
 >>> m.groups()
('a', 'c')

You can name the groups:
 >>> m=re.search(r'(?P<one>a)b(?P<two>c)', 'abcabc')
 >>> m.groupdict()
{'two': 'c', 'one': 'a'}

HTH

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From imbaczek at poczta.onet.pl  Sun Jun 15 17:45:55 2003
From: imbaczek at poczta.onet.pl (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Marek_=22Baczek=22_Baczy=F1ski?=)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:45:55 +0200
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <114xq48ewelrf.1xyyacwlxdk1p.dlg@40tude.net>

On 15 Jun 2003 13:28:06 -0700, beliavsky at aol.com wrote:

> It's good that the program crashes rather than returning a bad result,
> but a C++ or Fortran 95 compiler would flag the bad arguments during
> compilation, which I think is still better. Also, in a large script,
> the bad call to correl(x,y) could come after much CPU time had
> elapsed, potentially wasting a lot of programmer's time.

Your argument is good in theory, but IME such things are extremly rare to 
happen in real life. Searching for a lost colon also takes a lot of time 
*and* tends to happen more often.



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jun  4 13:43:34 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:43:34 +0200
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
In-Reply-To: <bblaip$20qd$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <3EDE28A1.A8ABE331@engcorp.com> <bblaip$20qd$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3EDE2FC6.6040700@ghaering.de>

Aur?lien G?ron wrote:
> [Tkinter vs. wxPython]
> I guess a good compromise would be to leave Tkinter in place, but to
> make it clear in the documentation that for any serious GUI development, wxPython
> would be the way to go (along with a link to download it of course).

 From what I hear on this list, it is possible to do serious GUI 
development with all of the major toolkits (Tki, wx, GTK, Qt). FWIW 
Tkinter people tend to use Pmw for additional funtionality.

I understand your initial excitement for wxPython. FWIW I plan to 
seriously check out PyGTK for GUI programming. It seems to be pretty 
usable on win32 as well with the version based on GTK2. If you're 
concerned about GTK apps not having the native Windows look and feel you 
should read the PyGTK FAQ :-)

Here's the link: 
http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=show&file=faq21.007.htp

-- Gerhard





From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Tue Jun  3 02:05:15 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:05:15 +1000
Subject: how to create module documentation: gendoc? pythondoc? other?
In-Reply-To: <ec338771.0306022118.363faa6b@posting.google.com>
References: <ec338771.0306022118.363faa6b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030603060515.GC11968@frobozz>

On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 10:18:01PM -0700, Jeff McCarrell wrote:
> 
> What is the preferred method to autogenerate module documentation
> these days?

Some projects like epydoc:

    http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/

It has its own simple markup, though (but copes with docstrings that don't
use it).

-Andrew.





From nav at adams.patriot.net  Thu Jun 19 13:26:21 2003
From: nav at adams.patriot.net (Nick Vargish)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 13:26:21 -0400
Subject: sum(strings)
References: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <mailman.1056036815.23557.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yyy8yryc72a.fsf@adams.patriot.net>

Andreas Jung <andreas at andreas-jung.com> writes:

> P.S. it's somewhat rude to use an invalid email address for postings

Well, all the spam I get is because I don't obfuscate my From: line in
Usenet postings. I was able to filter this, because the host I post
news from is not the host I receive legitimate mail to, until one day
I replied via e-mail to a response that was gated through the python
mail<->news gateway, thus leaking my normal personal e-mail address
into Usenet.

Sometimes self-defense takes precedence over etiquette. Indeed,
etiquette must occasionally change due to prevailing circumstances.

Nick

-- 
# sigmask.py  ||  version 0.2  ||  2003-01-07  ||  Feed this to your Python.
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAqbusjpu/ofu?','')




From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Thu Jun 12 16:40:11 2003
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:40:11 -0700
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2003-05-16 through 2003-05-31
Message-ID: <3EE8E52B.5060308@ocf.berkeley.edu>

python-dev Summary for 2003-05-16 through 2003-05-31
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is a summary of traffic on the `python-dev mailing list`_ from May 
16, 2003 through May 31, 2003.  It is intended to inform the wider 
Python community of on-going developments on the list and to have an 
archived summary of each thread started on the list.  To comment on 
anything mentioned here, just post to python-list at python.org or 
`comp.lang.python`_ with a subject line mentioning what you are 
discussing. All python-dev members are interested in seeing ideas 
discussed by the community, so don't hesitate to take a stance on 
something.  And if all of this really interests you then get involved 
and join `python-dev`_!

This is the eighteenth summary written by Brett Cannon (has his own room 
with a door for the first time in over 22 years).

All summaries are archived at http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ .

Please note that this summary is written using reStructuredText_ which 
can be found at http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html .  Any unfamiliar 
punctuation is probably markup for reST_ (otherwise it is probably 
regular expression syntax or a typo =); you can safely ignore it, 
although I suggest learning reST; its simple and is accepted for `PEP 
markup`__.  Also, because of the wonders of programs that like to 
reformat text, I cannot guarantee you will be able to run the text 
version of this summary through Docutils_ as-is unless it is from the 
original text file.

__ http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0012.html

The in-development version of the documentation for Python can be found 
at http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ and should be used when wanting 
to look up any documentation on something mentioned here.  To view files 
in the Python CVS online, go to 
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/ .

.. _python-dev: http://www.python.org/dev/
.. _python-dev mailing list: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
.. _comp.lang.python: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.lang.python
.. _Docutils: http://docutils.sf.net/
.. _reST:
.. _reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html

.. contents::


.. _last summary: 
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2003-05-01_2003-05-15.html




======================
Summary Announcements
======================
Sorry about the delay for this summary.  I was visiting my mother and 
that puts me out of my hacking groove.  I also had a roommate move out 
which means I got to move into his room.  And on top of all of that I 
just decided where I am going to go for grad school in computer science 
( `Cal Poly San Luis Obispo`_ ).  Life just likes to dump everything on 
you at once, huh?


.. _Cal Poly San Luis Obispo: http://www.calpoly.edu/

====================================
`Vacation; Python 2.2.3 release.`__
====================================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035642.html

Related threads:
     - `Preparing docs for Python 2.2.3`__
     - `Python 2.2.3`__
     - `One other 2.2.3 failure`__
     - `RELEASED Python 2.2.3c1`__
     - `_sre changes`__
     - `Python bug 544473 - bugfix candidate - was it applied?`__
     - `Plans for Python 2.2.3 final`__
     - `Python 2.2.3 docs freeze`__
     - `RELEASED Python 2.2.3 (final)`__

__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035796.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035797.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035801.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035807.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035835.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035851.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035856.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035872.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035905.html

`Python 2.2.3`_ has gone out the door!

.. _Python 2.2.3: http://www.python.org/2.2.3/


===============================
`C new-style classes and GC`__
===============================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035661.html

Jim Fulton updated the tutorial for creating new C types to use 
new-style classes.  This led to the question of what the right way was 
for dealing with garbage collection.  In terms of the tp_dealloc slot, 
having it call obj->ob_type->tp_free is best since that works the best 
when the type is subclassed.

This also led to a discussion about the magic of PyType_Ready and 
whether it should do more.  This wonderful function fills in tp_alloc 
and tp_free if tp_base and tp_bases are empty (they are set 
appropriately for PyBaseObject which is the C version of object).  What 
was changed was that now the function does the right thing if the object 
should be checked for cycles based on settings in tp_flags.

Paul Moore was worried about the loss of the tutorial for classic types. 
  The response was that as long as they don't mess with there code it 
will continue to work, but if they decide to change something they 
should probably update.  Michael Hudson's Misc/pymemcompat.h file is 
also helpful since it allows you to use 2.3's memory API but 
macro-replaces the call with the proper code all the way back to 1.5.2 . 
  It was suggested adding a Misc/pyapipcompat.h for PyAPI_FUNC, 
PyAPI_DATA, and PyMODINIT_FUNC.


=====================
`Attribute lookup`__
=====================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035730.html

For the last summary I asked for the help of python-dev to find out the 
exact algorithm used to do attribute lookup for new-style classes (I 
don't care about classic classes since they are sooo 2.1  =).  A bunch 
of people jumped in and made suggestions, but I am going to steal the 
explanation from Raymond Hettinger's explanation of descriptors which 
can be found at http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm .  =)

The attribute lookup order gives "data descriptors priority over 
instance variables, instance variables priority over non-data 
descriptors, and assigns lowest priority to __getattr__ if provided." 
This is all is done by object.__getattribute__ .  If you define your own 
__getattribute__ none of this is done unless you  explicitly call 
object's implementation.  You have to worry about calling a descriptor's 
__get__ method yourself if you decide not to call object.__getattribute__ .

Raymond's descriptor essay/explanation/(group of words put together in 
attempt to make a coherent idea which he does) explains the difference 
between a data descriptor and non-data descriptor, but instead of make 
you wait I will just tell you.  A data descriptor defines both a __get__ 
and __set__ method while a non-data descriptor defines only __get__. 
This makes sense when you think about non-data-descriptors such as 
functions.  You have no need to assign to a function so not having a 
__set__ in no way harms the usage of a function plus it negates the need 
for any special flag or anything to define the difference between data 
and non-data descriptors.


=================
`Introduction`__
=================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035792.html

Splinter threads:
     - `Contracts PEP`__

__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035864.html

What started off as Jeffrey Robert's introducing himself ended up 
becoming a short howto on how to get involved on python-dev.  It was 
suggested to work on pyPy_ (although that is not exactly python-dev but 
is still cool and you could learn a lot about Python on a more abstract 
level =).  Multiple people suggested working on bugs and patches.  I 
specifically suggested looking at patches in development to learn what 
they were doing to the code's semantics.  Mention of the AST branch and 
working on that was also brought up.

Terrence Way then introduced himself and mentioned he had written a PEP 
about programming with contracts.  It led to, in the end, Guido saying 
that he wanted to wait and let more implementations get out there and be 
weeded out before he started pronouncing on PEPs on the subject.

.. _pyPy: http://codespeak.net/pypy/index.cgi?home


=========
Quickies
=========
`test_urllibnet failing on Windows`__
     os.fdopen does not work with sockets under Windows when fetching 
its argument from fileno .

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035655.html

`[development doc updates]`__
     Here is a simple intelligence test: what do you think this email 
was about based on its subject?  Get it right and you earned yourself a 
lollipop (on your own dime).

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035660.html

`test_time fails with current CVS`__
     A bug report has been filed.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035669.html

`a strange case`__
     Splinter threads:
         `Unifying modules and classes?`__

     Apparently the 2.2.x branch allows you to subclass a module.  This 
has been fixed in 2.3 .  And once again Guido stated that erasing the 
line separating classes and modules is not going to happen while his 
benevolently dictating body still has air in it (okay, he didn't say it 
that way, but I am sure he wouldn't object to a little artistic license 
to get his point across =).  But if you really feel the need to have a 
module be a class just stick an instance in sys.modules; just don't 
expect everything to play well with it, though.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035676.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035731.html

`test_bsddb185 failing under OS X`__
     Tests were failing for me under OS X.  After Skip Montanaro and I 
independently came up with a better way for the test to clean up after 
itself the tests passed from some odd reason.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035699.html

`Need advice, maybe support`__
     Christian Tismer was given two bits in tp_flags for Stackless_ to 
create Stackless-aware types that can identify recursive, indirect 
function calls in C.  The two bits will greatly simplify the 
implementation of Stackless 3.0.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035701.html
.. _Stackless: http://www.stackless.com/

`[Python-Dev] SF oddity`__
     Remember folks, look out for horizontal scroll bars along with 
vertical ones.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035713.html

Weekly Python Bug/Patch Summary
     * Ending on `2003-05-18`__
     * Ending on `2003-05-25`__

__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035716.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035834.html

`doctest extensions`__
     Jim Fulton came up with some possible additions for doctest.  You 
can see them at 
http://cvs.zope.org/Zope3/src/zope/testing/doctestunit.py?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup 
.  If you would like to see them added then speak up.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035718.html

`+= on return of function call result`__
     This is a continuation from `last summary`_.
     Samuele Pedroni wrote a simple function that simulates what was 
originally desired.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035500.html

`Using emacs' unexec to speed Python startup`__
     Splinter threads:
         - `portable undumper in xemacs`__

     Some people tried  to speed up loading Python for `some editor`_ 
when what they should have been doing is learning how to use a `better 
editor`_.  =)

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035727.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035769.html

.. _some editor: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs.html
.. _better editor: http://www.vim.org/

`[debian build error]`__
     Some issue with using Debian packages and Python 2.2 with gcc 3.3 
and libstdc++5.  A Debian bug report has been filed.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035747.html

`urllib2 proxy support broken?`__
     Yes, but Gustavo Niemeyer found the bug and came up with a patch.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035764.html

`Python Run-Time System and Extensions`__
     Daniel Silva is writing a compiler for Python to `PLT Scheme`_ 
code.  He asked for suggestions on which of two ways to go for being 
able to run C extension code.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035773.html
.. _PLT Scheme: http://www.plt-scheme.org/

`Descriptor API`__
     We all learned what the difference is between a data and non_data 
descriptor (which you can know too by reading the summary for `Attribute 
lookup`_ ).

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035788.html

`Of what use is commands.getstatus()`__
     Guido ended up saying the commmands module should be redesigned, 
probably put into shutil, and then have the old version deprecated.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035799.html

`Change to ossaudiodev setparameters() method`__
     Some day Greg Ward will get his ossaudiodev module to work on both 
Guido's home machine and work machine.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035840.html

`RE: Decimal class`__
     A Decimal class is currently being worked on in the CVS sandbox. 
The question as to whether the values should be immutable was raised. 
Everyone agreed that they should be immutable.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035844.html

`install debian package`__
     python-dev is not the right place to bring up issues with Debian 
packages.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035849.html

`Release question`__
     Branches in CVS for Python are pretty much only used for minor 
versions (the "3" in "2.3.x").  Since 2.3 is in beta that means no 
semantic changes to the code.  Any new features must wait for 2.4 
development to start which occurs when 2.3 is out the door.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035873.html

`Algoritmic Complexity Attack on Python`__
     Someone tried to point out that Python was vulnerable to an attack 
if you naively took in user-supplied keys to a dictionary.  The big 
lesson is that Python's hash function can change between releases and 
that it will always be as fast as possible but can still be nailed by 
worst-case situations.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035874.html

`KeyboardInterrupt on Windows`__
     An optimization on the JUMP_ABSOLUTE opcode was not dealing with 
asynchronous exceptions since it was skipping the signal checks in the 
interpreter loop.  It has been fixed.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035890.html

`more-precise instructions for "Python.h first"?`__
     David Abrahams didn't like the restriction of having to put 
Python.h before all other headers in C/C++ code.  The problem is some 
key macro definitions are set in Python.h that are needed on some platforms.

.. __: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-May/035908.html





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Jun 30 10:36:46 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:36:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Idiomatic way of repeating items in a sequence.
References: <f58803d.0306300326.705bad44@posting.google.com> <Xns93AA81EC76E7Eduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <Xns93AA9D1176F0Eduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in
news:Xns93AA81EC76E7Eduncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1: 

> The most obvious one that springs to mind is just a slight
> simplification of your version:
> 
>    def repeatitems(sequence, repetitions):
>        newlist = []
>        for item in sequence:
>            newlist.extend([item] * repetitions)
>        return newlist
> 

Or, if you are in a "I've got a new toy to play with" mood you could use 
itertools from Python 2.3 to obfuscate it somewhat:

  from itertools import chain, izip, repeat
  def repeatiterate(sequence, repetitions):
      return chain(*izip(*repeat(sequence, repetitions)))

This version returns an iterator, so you might want to throw in a call to 
'list' if you want to do anything other than iterating over the result.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com  Thu Jun 26 10:01:30 2003
From: paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com (Paolo Invernizzi)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:01:30 +0200
Subject: filedescriptor out of range in select()
In-Reply-To: <bdes3p$d6o$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <bde89s$ef4$1@main.gmane.org> <mailman.1056616363.2840.python-list@python.org> <3EFABC5E.329613C6@alcyone.com> <bdelmg$cb7$1@main.gmane.org> <bdeop0$qah$1@main.gmane.org> <bdes3p$d6o$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <bdeub8$pla$1@main.gmane.org>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> but that doesn't necessarily mean that the #define in an include file
> somewhere automagically picks up the kernel configuration, does it?

You are right, obviously.

> (a quick googling brings up some posts about FreeBSD machines with
> FD_SETSIZE=256 and maxuserfiles>1024 etc.  dunno if they've made
> their configuration tools smarter, but in any case, "poll" is the "right
> way" to deal with large number of file handles (compared to "select",
> at least -- there are better but platform-specific ways to do things
> if you want to...))

Right again.

Many thanks for the help

---
Paolo






From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Jun  1 07:59:01 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 13:59:01 +0200
Subject: Tkinter.Canvas.create_line.coords
References: <mailman.1054454042.24780.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbcprh$bfh$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Arnd Baecker <arnd.baecker at web.de> wrote:

<unquoted lines are edited>

>    def action(self):
>        print "action2, This one fails:"
>        liste=[10,0,10,10,80,100,100,200]
         self.plot.coords(self.plot.line,*liste)
>
>    def createWidgets(self):
>	self.QUIT = Button(self, text='QUIT', foreground='red',
>			   command=self.quit)
>
>	self.Action = Button(self, text='Action', foreground='red',
>			   command=self.action)
>        self.plot=Canvas(self, width="5i", height="5i")
>        liste=[0,0,10,10,80,150,200,200]
        self.plot.line=self.plot.create_line(liste)
>
>	self.plot.pack(side=TOP)
>	self.QUIT.pack(side=LEFT, fill=BOTH)
>	self.Action.pack(side=LEFT, fill=BOTH)

Bengts suggestion about unpacking the argument solves one problem.
Changing self.line into self.plot.line solves the next problem. 

By the way, reading your code (and Bengts reply) gave me some ideas,
so we're having a win-win situation here. If you'd stop mixing spaces
and tabs this would work even better ...

Anton



From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Tue Jun 17 10:00:37 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:00:37 +0000
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EEF1F05.6040802@removeme.free.fr>

Tim Rowe wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:01:42 +0000, Bruno Desthuilliers
> <bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Tim Rowe wrote:
>>(snip)
>>
>>
>>>So if we're going to have meaningless
>>>polemic, let me try mine :-)
>>
> 
>>Please be serious. 
> 
> 
> I consider it at least as serious as the post I was replying to,
> though in my case the exaggeration to the point of comedy was
> intention (I don't know about successful).  No, the compiler and other
> static testing won't catch all the bugs.  But it has been pretty
> thoroughly shown that dynamic testing won't catch them all either.

I dont pretend that any known methodology can catch *all* bugs.

> And the research I've seen
Links, please...

> indicates that the two techniques catch
> pretty much non-overlapping sets of bugs.

Well... With static-typing and compilation, the compiler can catch type 
bugs. They are not the most common bugs, nor the more difficult to catch  .

> Go back to my parody of Anton's position: which do you think we can do
> without in our diet? Fibre or vitamins?  Ok, now which do you think we
> can do without in our software assurance?  Static testing or dynamic
> testing?

That comparison does not stand. We need both fiber and vitamins to live, 
but the fact is that programs written with dynamic languages works, and 
are no more no less buggy than programs written with static languages.

> (As an aside, when the project manager comes along and says we have to
> cut something to meet timescales, do you think it will be compilation
> or test that's more likely to be cut?)

Which compilation ? Remember this is c.l.python here... No overnight 
compilation phase needed.

Now, if the project manager is stupid enough (yes, don't tell me, many 
of them are...) to cut on the test, you're in the same trouble, 'static 
testing' or not. The fact that a C++ source compile doesn't means it's 
bug-free, AFAIK...

Bruno Desthuilliers




From nosp at m.needed  Thu Jun 19 11:05:20 2003
From: nosp at m.needed (Steve McAllister)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:05:20 +0200
Subject: sum(strings)
Message-ID: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr>

Why does sum reject strings?  Is it a matter of efficiency of the 
underlying implementation?




From moai at 0ubliette.org  Wed Jun  4 11:57:49 2003
From: moai at 0ubliette.org (M. Kirchhoff)
Date: Wed,  4 Jun 2003 08:57:49 -0700
Subject: cgi module does not work fully with XHTML 1.0 Strict DTD
Message-ID: <1054742269.3ede16fdd2e3d@webmail.0ubliette.org>


It seems that the FieldStorage() method of the cgi module collects only form
<select> items using the "name" attribute (for example, <select name="item1"> ).

With the newer XHTML 1.0 Strict DTD, "name" is deprecated and has been replaced
with "id" (for example <select id="item1"> ).  The method does seem to work with
XHTML 1.0 Transitional, as this allows for the use of the "name" and "id"
attributes simultaneously.

Does anyone have any information or resources regarding this situation?

Thanks!

(M)




From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jun 19 08:24:41 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 13:24:41 +0100
Subject: ftplib question
References: <3ef19a1c$1@news.012.net.il>
Message-ID: <87n0geqmpi.fsf@pobox.com>

"Avner Ben" <avner at skilldesign.com> writes:

> How do I find the year of a remote file in ftplib?
> 
> retrlines('LIST') seems to include only month day and hour.

There is code here to parse this format (actually the unix 'ls -l'
format):

http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientCookie/src/ClientCookie-0.3.5b.tar.gz
or
http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientCookie/src/ClientCookie-0_3_5b.zip

from ClientCookie import str2time
time.gmtime(str2time("Mar 19 17:15"))
(2003, 3, 19, 17, 15, 0, 2, 78, 0)

It lives in ClientCookie/_HTTPDate (note the 0.4.x versions can't
parse this format), which you could just strip out and use standalone
with little effort.  The function accepts all kinds of nonsense, which
may or may not be a good thing for you.


John



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Thu Jun  5 06:10:15 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:10:15 +0100
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.3999999999 ?
References: <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com> <mailman.1053017062.18647.python-list@python.org> <895e4ce2.0306021736.13c657a5@posting.google.com> <slrnbdo1i8.a95.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3EDC1074.CA05EC23@alcyone.com> <u60tdvcau9j1ftu7rh05bv4leioate5afn@4ax.com> <bbm8aq$ld3$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3EDEA84A.389C1AC5@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <qg5udvogi89marid8178l8s5o448d9cl27@4ax.com>

On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:17:46 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>There are all sorts of alternative definitions of the reals which have
>differing properties than the reals we've all come to know and love. 
>They usually fall under the general category of "non-standard analysis."
>I'm not familiar with the particular alternative that the original
>poster mentioned, 

Yes, it's non-standard analysis I was thinking of.  I don't know the
detail, but I came across it when learning about fractals, in which
0.9999... and 1.000... might be on completely different branches of a
structure, and the axioms are chosen to keep them distinct.



From gerryandsharon at sympatico.ca  Sun Jun 15 12:47:33 2003
From: gerryandsharon at sympatico.ca (Gerry Sutton)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:47:33 -0400
Subject: Calling scripts from within scripts, is this possible?
Message-ID: <Eq1Ha.94$5d.30529@news20.bellglobal.com>

I am planning on building an App. that will create an environment in Python
that allows scripts to be called from that environment. This would require
one script to call another where the called script implicitly has access to
the environment and name space of the caller and it all happens in single
instance of the interpreter.



So:



1)      The master App. declares variables, imports other modules and
creates objects. It contains a list of the pathnames of other Slave script
files it can call or they can be entered through a UI.

2)      When invoked, the master App. somehow loads and executes another
script file that can access the Master Apps variables, Objects and make use
of the modules imported by the Master App. The slave script sees these as
though they were system or global services. The slave script is simple and
may or may not import other modules for its own use and may or may not
define its own classes, variables, etc. Usually this slave script will just
be a set of procedural commands that make calls to resources defined and
controlled by the master App.

3)      When execution reaches the end of the Slave script file the Master
regains control and another slave script could be called.



To reiterate, my question revolves around how to do steps 2) and 3)





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jun  1 06:17:58 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 10:17:58 GMT
Subject: Time constants module - standard-library fodder?
References: <slrnbde06f.k98.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <ad052e5c.0305311534.70e7019c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbdjl11.q6.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On 31 May 2003 16:34:25 -0700, Dan Bishop wrote:
> Ben Finney wrote:
>> Many programmers in many languages break the "use named constants"
>> rule, but one of the most egregious examples seems to be constants
>> for number of seconds in an hour, day, week, etc.
>> [snip]
>> Is there a better way?  A standard module I've missed?
> 
> In Python 2.3, yes.  Take at look at the datetime.timedelta class. 

Excellent!  Thanks very much, now I don't have to duplicate the effort
by refining my module :-)

-- 
 \      "When I was a little kid we had a sand box. It was a quicksand |
  `\        box. I was an only child... eventually."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jun 17 20:55:07 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:55:07 +0200
Subject: How to make an executable file
In-Reply-To: <b675611e.0306171648.a289a4e@posting.google.com>
References: <b675611e.0306171648.a289a4e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EEFB86B.9020904@ghaering.de>

Syed Ahmed Shah wrote:
> I am a begineer. I know how a C++ compiler makes an executable file
> from the source code, which you can run anywhere, independent of the
> Compiler. But how does one do it in Python. Is it necessary to have
> the Python interpreter in the machine to run an application written in
> Python. I know this sounds lame.But please help me anyone.

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=all#4.28

-- Gerhard




From no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid  Tue Jun 10 11:25:14 2003
From: no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid (Robert Oschler)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:25:14 GMT
Subject: go buy 'text processing in python'
References: <FtlFa.8831$Fu.3075064@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <uLmFa.666$Hw.856488@news2.news.adelphia.net>

Thanks, I missed that post!  Just ordered my copy, here's the link to Amazon
for convenience:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0321112547/

thx

--
Robert Oschler,
Android Technologies, Inc.
http://www.androidtechnologies.com
- The home of Off-Book! (tm)
The scene memorization tool for Actors and Actresses!

"Max Khesin" <max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com> wrote in message
news:FtlFa.8831$Fu.3075064 at twister.nyc.rr.com...
> Perhaps due to David's humility he did not post this in its own thread.
Many
> of us enjoyed his excellent (and free) column 'charming python', which his
> just-released book is based on. I think it's time for us to pay up :)
> (I just ordered mine from Amazon)
>
> "Max Khesin" <max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com> wrote previously:
> |btw, your book is supposed to be on its way from Amazon. I hope it
> |comes fast...
>
> Thanks Max. Which reminds me to announce that it is out:
>
> +++
>
> After way too long, my occassionally plugged book, _Text Processing in
> Python_ is actually printed and being sold in stores.  I think it looks
> quite nice, decent paper, binding, and I am pleased by the typography
> now that I've seen the real thing etc.  (I did the composition, but
> somehow the bound volume is still a step past my laser printer pages).
> My Amazon rank fell from 1.5 millionth to 100 thousandth already... a
> runaway seller :-).
>
> FWIW.  I am supposed to get 50 author's copies of the text (but my
> publisher has seemed to drag their feet greatly on little details like
> paying me--and delivering these copies).  When I get them, beyond a few
> for friends and family, I'll sell the rest to the Pythonistas here (I
> should be able to do a credit card via textbookx.com, where I have an
> account; or send them to anyone who wants to pay me directly by
> check).  I'll announce details when I wrestle the copies out of AW.
>
> Yours, David...
>
>
> --
> ========================================
> Max Khesin, software developer -
> max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
> [check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com,
JBIG2-PDF
> compression @
> www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]
>
>
>





From spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu  Mon Jun 16 21:12:03 2003
From: spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu (Chris Fonnesbeck)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 18:12:03 -0700
Subject: installing PIL on OSX
Message-ID: <c3835e5f.0306161712.c97670e@posting.google.com>

I am trying to install PIL on OSX using python2.3b, but am having some
problems, apparently related to tcl/tk. Here are the errors:

gcc -Wno-long-double -no-cpp-precomp -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g
-O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -IlibImaging
-I/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Headers
-I/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/Current/PrivateHeaders
-I/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers
-I/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/Current/PrivateHeaders
-I/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/python2.3
-c Tk/tkImaging.c -o
build/temp.darwin-6.6-Power_Macintosh-2.3/Tk/tkImaging.o
In file included from
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/tk.h:96,
                 from Tk/tkImaging.c:49:
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:140: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:343: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:462: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:480: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:505: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:506: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:518: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:531: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:1065: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
Tk/tkImaging.c: In function `TkImaging_Init':
Tk/tkImaging.c:198: warning: passing arg 3 of `Tcl_CreateCommand' from
incompatible pointer type
gcc -Wno-long-double -no-cpp-precomp -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g
-O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -IlibImaging
-I/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Headers
-I/Library/Frameworks/Tcl.framework/Versions/Current/PrivateHeaders
-I/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers
-I/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Versions/Current/PrivateHeaders
-I/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/python2.3
-c _imagingtk.c -o build/temp.darwin-6.6-Power_Macintosh-2.3/_imagingtk.o
In file included from
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/tk.h:96,
                 from _imagingtk.c:20:
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:140: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:343: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:462: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:480: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:505: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:506: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:518: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:531: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
/Library/Frameworks/Tk.framework/Headers/X11/Xlib.h:1065: warning:
function declaration isn't a prototype
gcc -Wl,-F. -bundle -framework Python
build/temp.darwin-6.6-Power_Macintosh-2.3/_imagingtk.o
build/temp.darwin-6.6-Power_Macintosh-2.3/Tk/tkImaging.o -LlibImaging
-lImaging -o build/lib.darwin-6.6-Power_Macintosh-2.3/_imagingtk.so
ld: Undefined symbols:
_Tcl_AppendResult
_Tcl_CreateCommand
_Tk_FindPhoto
_Tk_PhotoBlank
_Tk_PhotoPutBlock_NoComposite
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

Any help most appreciated.
cjf



From morden at shadows.net  Mon Jun  2 15:53:39 2003
From: morden at shadows.net (morden)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 12:53:39 -0700
Subject: Problems with importation of regsub module in 2.2
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054504625.28681.python-list@python.org>
References: <bbdrc4$ojc$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <mailman.1054504625.28681.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbg70d$c10$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

Gerhard Haering wrote:
> * morden <morden at shadows.net> [2003-06-01 15:22 -0700]:
> 
>>I got this trace after upgrade from 1.x tro 2.2:
>>
>>...
>>    import regsub
>>  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/regsub.py", line 20, in ?
>>    import regex
>>ImportError: /usr/local/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/regex.so: undefined 
>>symbol: _Py_NoneStruct
> 
> 
> Strange. There must have been something gone wrong when you compiled
> Python. What you should be getting is this:
> 
> #v+
> 
>>>>import regsub
> 
> /usr/lib/python2.2/regsub.py:15: DeprecationWarning: the regsub module is deprecated; please use re.sub()
>   DeprecationWarning)
> #v-
> 
> Do you get the same error message if you try to import something else
> from dynload, like 'time' or 'sha'?
> 
Different:
   File "/usr/lib/textbook/prtempl/prn_ascii.py", line 23, in ?
     import time
ImportError: /usr/local/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/time.so: undefined 
symbol: PyExc_IOError


My port on SCO still uses 1.4
Is there any way to make my code use regsub module on 1.4 and re module 
on 2.2 without branching? I could not kill SCO port just yet and would 
rather not go thru the trouble of upgrading it to 2.2

re.sub() works like charm. Thank you.




From news at manuelmgarcia.com  Thu Jun 12 20:19:16 2003
From: news at manuelmgarcia.com (Manuel Garcia)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 00:19:16 GMT
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com> <84fc4588.0306112339.10a4012b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055460443.2394.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hl5iev4v2skjtbb28tpogm15js475pk5lf@4ax.com>

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:09:37 -0600, Steven Taschuk
<staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

>(It prints the first 5000 digits of pi, by the way.  At least, it
>seems to.  The first thirty digits are right, at least, and the
>algorithm is based on a sound plan.  The only question is whether
>the arithmetic error and hardcoded recurrence-iteration limits
>affect more than ten digits (which is what the code allows for).
>Determining *that* would require someone who actually knows
>something about numerical analysis, which I do not.)

All 5000 digits are correct, unless the value of Pi has been changed
recently  ;-)

Manuel



From http  Mon Jun  2 04:13:08 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Jun 2003 01:13:08 -0700
Subject: Defensive programming
References: <mailman.1054494905.7743.python-list@python.org> <7xn0h11gpu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <W2zCa.25460$da1.5950@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <7xisrosxrf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Neil Schemenauer <nas-usenet at arctrix.com> writes:
> > The paper proposed a good solution, which is use a hash function that
> > the attacker doesn't have enough information to manipulate.
> 
> Why should everyone have to use a slower or more complicated hash
> function?  

For the same reason everyone who uses Python gets array bounds
checking whether they ask for it or not.  What makes you think that a
collision resistant function is necessarily slower?  As for "more
complicated", why should the user care whether the function is
complicated as long as the Python implementation takes care of it?

> People who really care can use a custom __hash__ or use a different
> container (like a tree).  If you are worried about DoS attacks then
> you have a lot more problems than just a deterministic hash function.

Using a tree really would be slower and more space consuming in the
normal case, and is only worth suggesting if you're proposing that
Python provide a tree object that works just like a dict object.  The
whole point of Python is to take care of stuff like dictionary
implementation so that the application programmer doesn't have to
think about it.

If a collision resistant hash really has to be slower than the regular
version, then having a runtime switch to select which version to use.
Or if Python ever gets a taint checking option like Perl's, then the
collision resistance should be enabled by default, since the keys may
be tainted data.

Anyway I haven't read the paper yet, but it sounds like there should
be very fast and simple effective countermeasures to the attack, so it
seems silly for Python not to offer them.




From myles at geocities.dot.com  Mon Jun 23 00:00:40 2003
From: myles at geocities.dot.com (Myles)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:00:40 +1100
Subject: Windows - getting Tkinter or wxPython window handle?
In-Reply-To: <bd5ofv$pekdg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
References: <bd5ofv$pekdg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bd5u1h$6i4$1@towncrier.its.monash.edu.au>

Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de) wrote:
> On Windows, is there any chance of getting hold of an
> MFC window handle for a Tkinter or wxPython window?
> If so, how?

 > On Windows, is there any chance of getting hold of an
 > MFC window handle for a Tkinter or wxPython window?
 > If so, how?

wxWindow and its descendants have a GetHandle method.

"""
wxWindow::GetHandle
void* GetHandle() const

Returns the platform-specific handle of the physical window. Cast it to 
an appropriate handle, such as HWND for Windows, Widget for Motif or 
GtkWidget for GTK.

wxPython note: This method will return an integer in wxPython.
"""  -- extract from wxPython helpfile, Julian Smart, Robert Roebling, 
Vadim Zeitlin, Robin Dunn, et al

Within Tkinter, there is apparently an inner and outer window:

"""
you should be able to use wm_frame() (aka frame()) to
get hold of the outer window:

     inner = w.winfo_id()
     outer = string.atoi(w.wm_frame(), 0)

(wm_frame() returns the handle as a hex string).

Note that if the window hasn't been reparented by the
"window manager", both methods return the same window
handle.
""" -- extract from a posting by Fredrik Lundh

I hope this what you were after (I'm not familiar with "MFC handles")

Regards, Myles.




From john.abel at pa.press.net  Thu Jun 19 10:06:33 2003
From: john.abel at pa.press.net (John Abel)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:06:33 +0100
Subject: Using ftplib to upload a file to a server....
In-Reply-To: <bcsfef$oid$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <bcsfef$oid$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <3EF1C369.3070002@pa.press.net>

Hi,

To upload a file, using ftplib, you need to use storbinary, and 
storlines.  As for examples, you could have a look at the the cookbook, 
available at aspn.activestate.com.

HTH

John

Francois Meehan wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Please excuse my "newbiness", but I can't get python to upload a file 
> using ftplib, basically I don't make sense of the transfercmd.
>
> I can connect, return a file listing, but could not find upload 
> example on the net.
>
> Could someone provide me an example? Or is there an easier modules to 
> use for FTP file transfer?
>
> Francois
>
>
>






From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Mon Jun  2 23:44:29 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 03:44:29 GMT
Subject: Passing an Event from a Thread to its Caller
In-Reply-To: <4150f6c8.0306021120.7b70d981@posting.google.com>
References: <4150f6c8.0306021120.7b70d981@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <xQUCa.3253$7E.37896@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Matt Rapoport wrote:

> Hi all, I'm a newbie to python and threading in general.
> 
> I'm trying to write a service using the win32 extensions.  My service
> runs a thread and the thread is just a simple class that I created.
> 
> I'd like that simple class of mine to be able to generate an event
> within the service.  How do I do that?  Thank you very much for the
> help.

Create the event, and pass it to the constructor of your thread, or even 
just set the attribute manually.  Eg:

class ClientThread(threading.Thread):
     def run(self):
         assert self.event is not None, "Why hasn't my event been set?"
         client = Client.Client()
         client.run()
	win32event.SetEvent(self.event)

...
     def SvcDoRun(self):
         client = ClientThread()
         client.event = self.hWaitStop
         client.setDaemon(1)
         client.start()
         win32event.WaitForSingleObject(self.hWaitStop, win32event.INFINITE)

And it should set the event correctly.

In general, the whole point of an event is to be shared between threads, 
so there are no "philisophical" issues with passing them around, 
stashing them as module level globals, or whatever else works for you.

Mark.




From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Wed Jun  4 22:10:47 2003
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:10:47 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Python IO performance?
In-Reply-To: <bbln0q$2vl$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <m33civ37b2.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <bbad44$2nv$1@panix1.panix.com>
 <bbln0q$2vl$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20030605113023.N15841@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Thu, 4 Jun 2003, Bengt Richter wrote:

> >* Perl uses OS-specific FILE* hacks for speed; Python mostly sticks with
> >simple, portable calls.
> IMO if the latter does not result in max disk thoughput for simple IO, there is
> room for improvement in the OS event/scheduling/dispatching and/or the interface(s) to it.
> Not that that helps Python per se ;-/

It is a not uncommon misconception that OS library routines are highly
optimised for performance.  OS suppliers, particularly those supporting
multiple archictectures, frequently prefer portability over performance.
Even within an architecture, say i386, maximising performance requires
CPU specific tricks, and in a binary distribution some reasonable
compromise must be reached to perform satisfactorily across a range of
hardware.

So application developers who depend on maximising some aspect of system
performance need to take matters into their own hands, as Perl does.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun 26 11:15:50 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:15:50 -0400
Subject: Reading a binary file
References: <mailman.1056614502.25759.python-list@python.org> <3EFAF999.2F77CACF@engcorp.com> <mailman.1056637113.19927.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EFB0E26.9A069A9C@engcorp.com>

Sorin Marti wrote:
> 
> Ok I'll try to give more details. I have a Siemens SPS. With an SPS you
> can controll machines such as pumps or motors or anything else. To
> controll you have to set Variables. If you want to see which state these
> variables have you can get a file via ftp where these values are stored.
> This is what I have done. Now I have a file (called cpu1db2.dat) and
> this file has a length of 16 bytes.
> 
> Byte Number/Length   Type       Hex-Value
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Byte              1: Boolean:   01    (which is true, 00 would be false)
> Byte              2: Byte:      11   (This data type is called byte)
> Byte              3: Char:      50    (Which should be a "P")
> Byte            4,5: Word       00 00
> Byte            6,7: Integer    22 04
> Byte      8,9,10,11: DoubleWord D2 00 00 BB
> Byte 12,13,14,15,16: Real       BB 42 C8 00 00

Excellent detail!  (It's a pleasure to help someone who actually takes
the time to put together a question with this much care! Thank you. :-)

> Then there is a function where you can call a value with a startbyte and
> an endbyte. You also have to specify the type. That means you can call
> getValue('REAL',12,16) and you should get back 100 because if you have
> the binary value of 'BB 42 C8 00 00' is 01000010110010000000000000000000
> , first digit is the Sign (which is + or - ), next 8 digits are the
> exponent, in this case 10000101 = 133dec. Now you take away 127 from 133
> then you get six, thats the exponent. The rest
> (110010000000000000000000) has a hex value of C80000 this is 13107200
> decimal. Now you have to multiply 13107200 with 2^6 and 2^-23 and you
> get (tataaaaaa!): 100!
> 
> The different data types need different calculations, that's why I asked
> a few things about changing the representation because I only can do
> some things in binary mode or hex mode.

Okay, so clearly you understand about bytes and such.... you just need
help with the specific ways of doing such things with Python. (?)

Folks have already shown you how to do hex(abyte) if you have a single
byte out of the above string of 16 bytes...  That will return a 
representation starting with 0x, however, so maybe ("%02x" % byte)
is more what you would need.  You can also extend that to ("%04x" % word)
or %08x for a long if you need.

More likely, the comments about using the struct module are right on
target.  You could easily write a string that would convert the entire
16 byte package all at once, except for your proprietary (?) float 
format, which you already have under control.

Check out struct, then if you still need help, we'll be down to 
specifics.

-Peter



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jun  9 16:19:01 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 22:19:01 +0200
Subject: Where is bobo?
In-Reply-To: <hP5Fa.109203$g92.2532246@news2.tin.it>
References: <hP5Fa.109203$g92.2532246@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3ee4ebb4$0$49115$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Franco Fiorese wrote:
> Hi all,
> do you know where is possible to find the latest original package of 
> bobo (Python ORB)?
> The link (http://www.digicool.com/releases/bobo/) referenced by several 
> pages on the web is broken...

Sorry sir, we have run out of Bobo.
May we suggest Pyro instead?
http://pyro.sourceforge.net

;-)


--Irmen




From michael at stroeder.com  Mon Jun  2 12:18:43 2003
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 18:18:43 +0200
Subject: ANN: python-ldap-2.0.0pre13
Message-ID: <mailman.1054576747.21491.clpa-moderators@python.org>

Find a new pre-release of python-ldap:

   http://python-ldap.sourceforge.net/

python-ldap provides an object-oriented API to access LDAP directory
servers from Python programs. It mainly wraps the OpenLDAP 2.x libs for
that purpose. Additionally it contains modules for other LDAP-related
stuff (e.g. processing LDIF, LDAPURLs and LDAPv3 schema).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Released 2.0.0pre13 2003-06-02

Changes since 2.0.0pre12:

ldap.async:
- Checking type of argument writer_obj relaxed in
   LDIFWriter.__init__() since file-like objects are
   not necessarily an instance of file.

ldap.schema:
- ldap.schema.subentry.SubSchema.attribute_types() now correctly
   handles attribute types without NAME set
- If SUP is not defined for a structural object class 'top' is
   assumed to be the only super-class by default
- '_' is now the abstract top node in SubSchema.tree() for all
   schema element classes since ABSTRACT and AUXILIARY object
   classes are not derived from 'top' by default





From member31704 at dbforums.com  Tue Jun 24 10:24:18 2003
From: member31704 at dbforums.com (idriss)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:24:18 +0000
Subject: tkinter urgent help request
References: <3033499.1056382165@dbforums.com> <bd8v1j$vl4$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3037456.1056464658@dbforums.com>

thanks for your consideration eric, but it doesn't work again, i used
grid instead of frames the code in the below makes a scroll but it is
only a decoration :)

Originally posted by Eric Brunel 
> idriss wrote:
> > i want to scroll one frame's or canvas 's whole content (it will
>     contain
> > other subframes and subframes will contain bitmaps) I couldn't
>     find
> > where is my fault.  if you can find my fault or have some
>     example codes
> > like this please help me thanks from now.....
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > from Tkinter import *
> > import Image
> > 
> > 
> > root = Tk()
> > 
> > mainFrame = Canvas(root,width=400, height=420,
>     bg='gray50',relief=RIDGE)
> > mainFrame.pack(fill=BOTH,expand=1)
> > 
> > scroll = Scrollbar(mainFrame)
>
> You need to link the scrollbar to the canvas here. You link the
> canvas to the
> scrollbar below, but it needs to be done in both ways:
>
> scroll = Scrollbar(mainFrame, command=mainFrame.xview)
>
> > scroll.pack(side=RIGHT,expand=1,fill=BOTH)
> > 
> > mainFrame.configure(xscrollcommand=scroll.set)
> > 
> > 
> > subFrame = Frame(mainFrame,width=200,height=300)
> > subFrame.pack(expand=1,fill=BOTH)
> > 
> > picNo =0
> > img = []
> > 
> > # two picture placed side by side
> > imgfile           = 'c:\untitled.bmp'
> > lbl               = Label(subFrame, bd=0)
> > lbl.place(anchor=NW)
> > masterImg         = Image.open(imgfile)
> > masterImg.thumbnail((500, 500))
> > img.append(ImageTk.PhotoImage(masterImg))
> > lbl['image'] = img[picNo]
> > picNo             = picNo + 1
> > lbl.pack(side=LEFT)
> > 
> > imgfile           = 'c:\untitled.bmp'
> > lbl          = Label(subFrame, bd=0)
> > lbl.place(anchor=NW)
> > masterImg         = Image.open(imgfile)
> > masterImg.thumbnail((500, 500))
> > img.append(ImageTk.PhotoImage(masterImg))
> > lbl['image'] = img[picNo]
> > picNo             = picNo + 1
> > lbl.pack(side=LEFT)
> > root.mainloop()
>
> I couldn't test the script since I didn't have the Image module
> installed, but
> it should work now.
>
> HTH
> --
> - Eric Brunel  -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools -
http://www.pragmadev.com/http://www.pragmadev.com


--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jun  3 13:34:30 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 13:34:30 -0400
Subject: Variable Modifications in a class
References: <mailman.1054658001.11458.python-list@python.org> <vdpm4a916kci47@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3EDCDC26.3502624D@engcorp.com>

Greg Unrein wrote:
> 
> Mehta, Anish wrote:
> > def func(ab):
> >   b = ab()
> >   c = ab()
> >
> >   b.a = 5
> >   b.b = 10
> >
> >   c = b
> 
> This is your problem. c and b are the same object.

Clearer to say that c and b are *bound* to the same object.
They are not themselves the objects.  In Python terminology
they are "names", or variables if you like that term, but
in traditional terms they are more like pointers to the object
than they are like the object itself.



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Jun  1 17:03:09 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 23:03:09 +0200
Subject: Replace for Goto
In-Reply-To: <bb3me6$5cof5$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>
References: <aa2e3602.0305281646.32cf1129@posting.google.com> <bb3me6$5cof5$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20030601210309.GA4727@nl.linux.org>

Ulrich Petri schreef op donderdag 29 mei om 03:12:02 +0000:
> "Dvm5" <dvm5_0 at hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:aa2e3602.0305281646.32cf1129 at posting.google.com...
> > I'm used to Basic. There is a Goto/Label command, you put goto where
> > you want it to come from and label where you want it to go. Simple.
> > How can I do this in Python?
> >
> > What I'm trying to do is create a "play again" type user interface.
> > Thus, I can't alter the program to use an If command; the option has
> > to be at the end, and the effect has to be at the begining! How do I
> > accomplish this?
> >
> > If there is another way, other than a similar thing to Goto, tell me
> > that, as well as a similar thing for goto. It would probably be useful
> > later on...
> >
> 
> If this was not intended as a troll posting you should get a book on general
> programming style.....

LABEL: vatnajokul
"Dvm5" wrote that he is used to Basic. That means we should not me angry
at *him* because he is used to bad style, but angry at *Basic* (not a
very difficult thing). He (or she?) does apparantly not know about
functional/modular programming, let alone OO. Years ago, I didn't either:

http://groups.google.nl/groups?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&as_uauthors=Gerrit%20Holl&lr=&as_drrb=b&as_mind=12&as_minm=5&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=1&as_maxm=12&as_maxy=1998&hl=nl

> goto *urgh*

I would appreciate if you would keep the good atmosphere in the Python
newsgroup. Basic-people should be treated gentle because they still
have a lot to learn.

I think the sentence part "...as a troll posting..." is not kind, although
I may be wrong (my English isn't perfect). If I am, you can consider
this post as never sent ;)

GOTO vatnajokul

got here ;)?

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
169. If he be guilty of a grave fault, which should rightfully deprive
him of the filial relationship, the father shall forgive him the first
time; but if he be guilty of a grave fault a second time the father may
deprive his son of all filial relation. 
        -- Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Jun  4 00:48:09 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 04:48:09 GMT
Subject: Examples of descriptors?
References: <bba9u0$li0$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <vonCa.30145$ca5.3622@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <2259b0e2.0306021039.1d44e405@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dSeDa.34733$ca5.5958@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

"Michele Simionato"
> I have a question about the difference between object.__setattr__
> and type.__setattr__, which probably is related to the difference
> bewteen object.__getattribute__ and type.__getattribute__.
 . . .
> My question is: what's the rationale for the change ? It is simply
> a performance hack or there was some subtle bug with the previous
> model ?

Here's the thread that discussed the reason for the change:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-April/034535.html

In a nutshell, the goal was to avoid that hornet's nest associated
with the ability to set attributes for builtin types.


Raymond Hettinger





From paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com  Thu Jun 26 08:26:27 2003
From: paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com (Paolo Invernizzi)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:26:27 +0200
Subject: filedescriptor out of range in select()
In-Reply-To: <bdelmg$cb7$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <bde89s$ef4$1@main.gmane.org> <mailman.1056616363.2840.python-list@python.org> <3EFABC5E.329613C6@alcyone.com> <bdelmg$cb7$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <bdeop0$qah$1@main.gmane.org>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> the number of files supported by an actual system doesn't necessarily
> have to match the value of a include-file constant on the build machine...

Umm...

Python was installed via FreeBSD port system, so was built on this 
machine...

> but I'm pretty sure asyncore supports the "poll" interface.  try changing
> the asyncore.loop call in Dibbler.py to:
> 
>     asyncore.loop(map=context._map, use_poll=1)
> 
> and see what happens.

Ok.

Thanks for the advice

---
Paolo






From no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid  Fri Jun  6 09:50:08 2003
From: no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid (Robert Oschler)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:50:08 GMT
Subject: Anyone using Python to access PHPbb's MySQL database on a web server?
References: <EpcDa.2207$xM5.2049592@news2.news.adelphia.net> <bbln6k.1i0.1@kserver.org>
Message-ID: <k_0Ea.3971$xM5.2641647@news2.news.adelphia.net>

"Sheila King" <sheila at spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:bbln6k.1i0.1 at kserver.org...
> On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 02:01:08 GMT, "Robert Oschler"
> <no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid> wrote in comp.lang.python in
> article <EpcDa.2207$xM5.2049592 at news2.news.adelphia.net>:
>
> > I want to run Python programs locally on my Win2k box to read/write the
> > PHPbb.MySQL database(s).  I have Python 2.2.x with the venerable WingIDE
> > debugger running on my Win2k box.  Has anyone done any Python
programming
> > like this?   If so, I'd be very interested in what you had to do to get
it
> > working, especially in the area of any available python
libraries/modules to
> > help with the MySQL access.
>
> You really do need to check with your host as to whether they allow IP
> addresses outside of their local network to even access the MySQL server.
>
> I get quite a number of support incidents at the Service Desk where I
work,
> where clients just assume that because they have Telnet/SSH and FTP
access,
> that they can also connect to their MySQL databases remotely.
>
> We do not permit this, excepting that they order a special ODBC
connection.
>
> Like I said, check first to see whether it is even permitted by your host.
>
> --
> Sheila King
> http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
> http://www.k12groups.org/

Sheila,

Good info, thanks.  It looks like I may have to do some PHP work to create
an interface to the MySQL database, if my ISP says "no" to remote access.

thx





From mmower at novissio.com  Sat Jun 28 14:19:46 2003
From: mmower at novissio.com (Matt Mower)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 19:19:46 +0100
Subject: Have I broken my installation?
References: <b8crfvcsd8pit555p24rrc19f05a9578pb@4ax.com> <m3d6gyjizz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <2verfvseu4k82h66g3l2co8mhnc2pe334p@4ax.com> <01hrfv8e7j4c7qi2gtcitlfurd749cg7su@4ax.com> <m3znk2hz21.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <9qmrfv0270kvqa6cr8t4r4i1dve04nhbug@4ax.com>

Hi Martin,

On 28 Jun 2003 19:49:58 +0200, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis)
wrote:

>Matt Mower <mmower at novissio.com> writes:
>
>> Nothing in the environment or access to the file system suggests to me
>> why it works as for my account but not for the nobody account.
>
>So I'll ask my questions again: Print xml, xml.dom, xml.dom.minidom
>both in the interactive mode and the CGI script.
>

Sorry, sometimes I don't listen so good.

Interactively as user 'nobody':

|>>> import xml
|>>> print xml
|<module 'xml' from '/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/__init__.pyc'>
|>>> import xml.dom
|>>> print xml.dom
|<module 'xml.dom' from '/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/__init__.pyc'>
|>>> import xml.dom.minidom
|>>> print xml.dom.minidom
|<module 'xml.dom.minidom' from '/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/minidom.pyc'>

via CGI webserver running as user 'nobody':

|<module 'xml' from '/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/__init__.pyc'>
|<module 'xml.dom' from '/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/__init__.pyc'>
|<module 'xml.dom.minidom' from '/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/minidom.pyc'>

Regards,

Matt

---
Systems Engineer, Hipbone(EMEA) Ltd.
3000 Hillswood drive, Chertsey, Surrey, KT16 0RS
Tel: 44-1932-895902  Mob: 44-7980-237-380



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sun Jun  8 09:11:52 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 06:11:52 -0700
Subject: Python regular expression question
References: <3ee30318$0$31508$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306080511.46f12d06@posting.google.com>

"DJ" <dj3000 at iinet.net.au.nospam> wrote in message news:<3ee30318$0$31508$5a62ac22 at freenews.iinet.net.au>...
> Hi
> 
> I cant figure out a re that matches a string in a sentance.
> The string can be anywhere in the sentance
> 
> eg
> 
> "dog"
> 
> I walked my dog today
> 
> Cheers
> Adam

r'\bdog\b'

You may want to look at

http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/python_201/python_201.html

                                Michele



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun  2 10:17:45 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 10:17:45 -0400
Subject: CGI question: safe passwords possible?
References: <cb035744.0305301401.3fdc8a96@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054338287.30346.python-list@python.org> <7xwug82ag0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3EDB4CC2.B34F910C@engcorp.com> <7xhe784n6u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3EDB5666.A97908C2@engcorp.com> <7xwug4efxd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3EDB5C89.D3B236F1@engcorp.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> > Ah, a nice solution, I would say.  If the password is actually compromised,
> > requiring the user to contact the adminstrator to "reset" their password,
> > or asking the server to generate a new password which is sent via email,
> > would be reasonably acceptable approaches.
> 
> If the opponent is intercepting web traffic they're probably also
> intercepting email.  It's sort of possible to implement low-exponent
> RSA encryption in Javascript if you're crazy enough.  The user could
> choose a new password and send it to the server that way.
> 
> It's all silly though, SSL is definitely the way to do this.  Any
> application with serious enough security requirements to worry about
> passwords getting intercepted from IP traffic needs to choose good
> hosting providers, and those usually offer SSL.

I'd definitely agree with that!



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Jun  5 15:49:59 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:49:59 +0200
Subject: id(a) == id(b) and a is not b --> bug?
Message-ID: <20030605194959.GA5050@nl.linux.org>

Hi,

according to the reference manual:

The `is' operator compares the identity of two objects; the id() function returns an integer representing its identity

This would mean that "id(a) == id(b)" is the same as "a is b".
However:

#!/usr/bin/env python

class autosuper(type):
    def __init__(cls, name, bases, dict):
        s = super(cls)
        setattr(cls, "super", s)
        setattr(cls, "super2", s)

class A:
    __metaclass__ = autosuper
    def meth(self):
        print "id's equal =>", id(self.super) == id(self.super2)
        print "same object =>",  self.super is self.super2

A().meth()

Results in:

$ python meta.py
id's equal => True
same object => False

Is this a bug? It is true both for Python 2.3b1+ and Python 2.2.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
168. If a man wish to put his son out of his house, and declare before
the judge: "I want to put my son out," then the judge shall examine into
his reasons. If the son be guilty of no great fault, for which he can be
rightfully put out, the father shall not put him out.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From tomas at fancy.org  Wed Jun 25 18:57:38 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:57:38 -0700
Subject: wxPython.Fit() is funky.
Message-ID: <nl9kfvgchoj3bg3rk8ttrgtsmscmucdrih@4ax.com>

(Is this an appropriate place to ask wxPython questions?)

Here's some code (line breaks put in without testing them, I'm
kinda a newbie hope they're ok):

<busted.py>

from wxPython.wx import *

class MyFrame(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self, size):
        wxFrame.__init__(self, NULL, -1, "Test Window")
        self.panel = wxPanel(self, -1, size = size)
        print '\ninitial size of panel is:', \
            self.panel.GetSize(), "and the window is:", \
            self.GetSize()
        
        self.Fit()
        print 'after a Fit(), size of panel is:', \
            self.panel.GetSize(), "and the window is:", \
            self.GetSize()
        
        print '\nIf I manually set the client size, it works:'
        self.SetClientSize(size)
        print '\tsize of panel is:', self.panel.GetSize(), \
            "and the window is:", self.GetSize()
        
        print '\nBut isn\'t this what the Fit call is ' + \
              'supposed to do?'


if __name__ == "__main__":
    print '\n***************************************************'
    print 'The panel should be 640x480, and the window ' + 
          'should fit it tightly.'
    frame = MyFrame((640, 480))
    frame.Destroy()
    print '*****************************************************'

***

Ok, so this code here, when executed in WinXP, prints different
values after thet self.Fit() call than I want.  I set the panel
size explicitly, and then self.Fit() changes the dimensions of
both self *and* self.panel.  Why?  Wouldn't the documentation
indicate that it only changes the 'self' parameter passed in to
Fit()?  That's what it says to me:

: wxWindow::Fit
: virtual void Fit()
: 
: Sizes the window so that it fits around its subwindows. This 
: function won't do anything if there are no subwindows.

It doesn't seem to imply that child windows will be changed to do
this fitting...  Unfortunately, this behavior means that Fit() is
nearly useless for me.  I just started doing this wx and Python
stuff, and every window that I create in my recent project needs
to be sized based on the content.  The way Fit() works is making
me actually compute the size of the content myself.  It's not
hard, but it is tedious when the library tells you that this
functionality is available.

Apologies if this is off-topic (responses/flames can be directed
straight to me if it is), and thanks for any help.

-tom!



From timr at probo.com  Fri Jun 27 01:09:19 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:09:19 -0700
Subject: Staying Connected to a POP3/SMTP Server
References: <5a8e622e.0306251107.1d5e3202@posting.google.com> <3EFA0D74.CAF5231@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <r8knfv0fanlnda0hp03o80bk86pc2riu4g@4ax.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>
>Amos Joshua wrote:
>> 
>> Would any Bad Things happen if I stayed connected to a POP3 and an
>> SMTP server for say, an hour, while checking for new emails say, every
>> ten seconds, and sending some at small intervals like that too?
>
>Isn't it the case that POP3 servers basically "lock" the mailbox when 
>you authenticate yourself, such that you would never see these new 
>messages that might possibly be arriving?  If that's so, it wouldn't
>be "bad" except in the sense that it would do nothing useful, and 
>would prevent any subsequent login attempts from succeeding on that
>mailbox until you disconnected.

Yes, that is correct.  The mailbox view does not change as long as your POP
session lives.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Mon Jun  2 23:30:04 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 03:30:04 GMT
Subject: PyRun_SimpleFile  crashing under Windows 2000
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054519142.20648.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1054519142.20648.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0DUCa.3246$7E.37640@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

quadric at primenet.com wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have embedded Python in an application and am wanting to run a startup 
> script
> when the application starts.  I am running under Windows 2000 Pro, 
> compiling with MSVC 6.0
> and using same compiler switches and libraries as the python22.dll was 
> created with.
> 
> Python initializes fine and I can run simple strings and get results back.
> 
> When I execute the following code,  I crash with a fatal "memory can't 
> be written" error.

You must compile your extension with the /MD option (or /MDd for debug 
builds).

Mark.




From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Jun  9 22:17:57 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:17:57 +1200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <l1d6hng389.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3he71hk52.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1u1b1h908.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3brx9xepd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1k7bwhnv5.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m33cikw4a0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1d6hng389.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <bc3dqt$es439$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Ed Avis wrote:
> I don't know enough about parser generators to tell what they
> do in the case of an ambiguity.  Would it find a syntax error or would
> it pick one of the two alternatives based on which production occurs
> earlier in the grammar definition?

Depends on the parser generator. Yacc warns about ambiguities
when processing the grammar; if you ignore the warnings, at
runtime it does whatever it thinks best (which might not be
what *you* thought best:-[). I don't know what pgen does.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From mr.kuta at libero.it  Tue Jun  3 19:55:15 2003
From: mr.kuta at libero.it (King Kuta)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:55:15 -0700
Subject: Whre is my object ??
References: <bbj4p4$f8n$1@news1.ucsd.edu> <bbjb8b$hds$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bbjch9$ihp$1@news1.ucsd.edu>

Hi Aahz,
I bet the base question is: Will my object be garbage-collected?
I mean once I delete it it is no more referenced, right?
I can still manipulate it till it exist, because I have a pointer to its
instance, but when (and most of all if) python checks for bindings it will
find the object is not any more referenced to by any name.

So, ...

Thanks,
Marco


"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:bbjb8b$hds$1 at panix1.panix.com...
> In article <bbj4p4$f8n$1 at news1.ucsd.edu>, King Kuta <mr.kuta at libero.it>
wrote:
> >
> >Ok, a little riddle for he Python community.
>
> Erik already gave you a good answer.  For more detail, see
> http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html
> -- 
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
> start writing it."  --Dijkstra





From p at ulmcnett.com  Thu Jun 19 00:51:15 2003
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:51:15 -0700
Subject: Is python good for making database work short?
In-Reply-To: <ZST8+kKkXweZ092yn@gnosis.cx>
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055987132.22607.python-list@python.org> <ZST8+kKkXweZ092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <200306182151.15391.p@ulmcnett.com>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters writes:

> |FoxPro shines at manipulating data.  There is no finer tool for that
> |purpose.
>
> Well... there *is* a finer tool:  Clipper :-).  But those are pretty
> close, both being xBase dialects.  However, Clipper besides having a
> moderately better syntax, also has a multi-platform Free Software
> implementation called Harbour.
>
> That said, I still like Python better.  It may not be *quite* as agile
> at manipulating relational tables, but for most everything else it's a
> bit better.

I think I agree. I'm still stumbling with Python, but haven't hit a 
showstopper yet. *And* I'm very pleasantly surprised at the ease of using 
the DB API and with the execution speed of PyQt. Not to mention the 
learning resources, and the community in general. 

With Python, I feel like a free man again!

-- 
Paul McNett




From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Thu Jun 19 04:17:44 2003
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 01:17:44 -0700
Subject: Windows Program?
References: <vf1roa984ou832@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0306190017.49671adf@posting.google.com>

"David B." <david24 at iland.net> wrote in message news:<vf1roa984ou832 at corp.supernews.com>...
> Hello. I'm new to python and I was wondering... can you make windows-like
> programs? (Like with the gray background and the input boxes?)

Unfortunately, Python does not come with a facility that can build
GUIs as easily as Visual Basic. It is possible, however, to build GUIs
for python, with a bit of patience. A selection of modules is
available at:
http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Programming/Languages/Python/Modules/GUI/

Quite a good one is wxPython, which has "native look and feel":
http://www.wxpython.org/ 
If you want to use it, you'll also need wxWindows, available at
www.wxwindows.org
It's all free.

 
> David



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jun 20 15:38:53 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:38:53 +0200
Subject: Installing Python on Solaris 9
In-Reply-To: <2c1dda69.0306191334.7e1c2cc@posting.google.com>
References: <2c1dda69.0306190001.53837879@posting.google.com> <m3isr2a28j.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <2c1dda69.0306191334.7e1c2cc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF362CD.1030504@v.loewis.de>

Solaris Boy wrote:

> Thanks... I knew this. Just thought any other way is there.

Sure:
raise SystemExit
sys.exit()

Regards,
Martin




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Jun 21 07:18:18 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 13:18:18 +0200
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m33ci3ptl1.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> writes:

> So, my understanding of XML is that it is like CSV format for a relational 
> DBMS table:
> 
> XML for ? is like CSV for a RDBMS

I don't think this relation holds, for any ?. CSV is "derived" data,
whereas the RDBMS is the "real" data. Deriving these data is used for
interchange.

In the applications that I consider useful for XML, XML is the "real"
data, instead of being derived from something. (and yes, I don't
consider SOAP a useful application)

Regards,
Martin




From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Mon Jun  2 06:11:17 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 02 Jun 2003 11:11:17 +0100
Subject: repr on a string
References: <pan.2003.06.01.20.16.40.747684@yahoo.com> <yfs1xydzcgx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <pan.2003.06.02.00.08.28.118677@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <yfswug4yeka.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

David Shochat <shochatd at yahoo.com> writes:

> On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 22:58:54 +0100, Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> 
> > David Shochat <shochatd at yahoo.com> writes:
> > 
> >> The Library Reference says this about built-in repr():
> >>  Return a string containing a printable representation of an object.
> >> 
> >> While studying Programming Python, 2nd Ed. Example 2-18, p. 84, I was
> > 
> > Haven't got the book, so I can't comment on the specific example, but see
> > below.
> > 
> Thanks for your reply (also to Gerrit Holl). I can see I need 
> to learn more about eval().
> 
> Anyway, here is a fragment of the book example I was 
> referring to, with a bit more context:
> 
> for dir in sys.path:
>     if string.find(os.path.abspath(dir), 'PyTools') != -1:
>         print 'removing', repr(dir)
>         sys.path.remove(dir)
> 
> In the 3d line, why does he not just say:
> 
>   print 'removing', dir
> 
> Why the call to repr() here?

My guess would be: mainly to put the name into (the right; ' or ") quotation
marks and make sure that funny characters are escaped. I think using `str`
here would be equally OK, although then the user wouldn't be able to tell
apart e.g. "that filename " from "that filename".

'as



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Tue Jun 17 08:38:55 2003
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:38:55 +0100
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bcn250$ogu@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

"Tim Rowe" <tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0 at 4ax.com...

> (As an aside, when the project manager comes along and says we have to
> cut something to meet timescales, do you think it will be compilation
> or test that's more likely to be cut?)

If you're doing test driven design and your project manager wants to cut the
tests, get a new project manager. This line of argument often seems to come up
when XP style developed is discussed, and, frankly, I think it's rather weak.
Of course, test driven design isn't going to work well if you skip the tests.

You never hear the argument: "what if the project manager cuts code reviews to
save time", and that's something that's hard to automate. Likewise, in an strong
architectural design, nobody would suggest cutting the upfront design time would
save time overall.





From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sat Jun 21 16:22:35 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 21:22:35 +0100
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056133597.28230.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yfswuff5gfo.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> writes:

> I wonder if my pessimism toward XML is not unique.

Hardly -- try googling comp.lang.lisp on the topic :)


'as



From roman at speeder.org  Wed Jun 18 13:01:25 2003
From: roman at speeder.org (Roman Milner)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 17:01:25 GMT
Subject: Why does this work in jython and not in python?
Message-ID: <87adcfqn13.fsf@speeder.org>

I'm sorting a list of dictionaries based on a particular key. Using
the code below, the list gets sorted in jython, but not in python. I'm
using python 2.2.1 and jython 2.1.

I really appreciate any help.

^Roman

# if you run this with jython, you get a sorted list
# with python the list stays in the same order. Why?

tdict = [{'a':5}, {'a':3},{'a':4},{'a':2},{'a':1}]

def sort_func(one, two):
    return one['a'] < two['a']

print tdict
tdict.sort(sort_func)
print tdict



From niemeyer at conectiva.com  Sun Jun 15 15:13:19 2003
From: niemeyer at conectiva.com (Gustavo Niemeyer)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:13:19 -0300
Subject: Python articles
Message-ID: <20030615191318.GA10381@ibook>

Hello everyone!

I've started writing some technical articles in my personal weblog[1]
as an experience. Since I'm a python fan, some of those will certainly
be about Python, so you may want to have a look. Right now, the
following articles are available:

- Understanding Python's SRE structure
- Using the auto_ptr concept in C++
- Why Lua was embedded in APT-RPM
- Some Python introspection

For the curious, this weblog structure is completely written in Python,
based on the Moin[2] wiki.

[1] https://moin.conectiva.com.br/GustavoNiemeyer
[2] http://moin.sourceforge.net

-- 
Gustavo Niemeyer
http://niemeyer.net




From dave at boost-consulting.com  Mon Jun 16 12:02:59 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:02:59 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com>
 <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ur85uko24.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> So this, I assert, is an aspect of why Python works. C++ tests happen at
> compile time (with a few minor special cases). 

I don't think of it that way.  When you write C++, you need runtime
tests, but the language can catch many of the most-trivial kinds of
errors at compile time.  It can also help understandability by
bounding the sorts of weird things that can happen without very
malicious intent.  That limits the number of things one has to
consider when reading code.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From maurix78_remove_this_ at wanadoo.es  Sun Jun 15 06:42:34 2003
From: maurix78_remove_this_ at wanadoo.es (Maurix)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:42:34 GMT
Subject: comprehending comprehensions
References: <roy-9EE81E.13521714062003@reader1.panix.com> <3EEBA5C9.3090200@wanadoo.es>
Message-ID: <3EEC4D84.5040803@wanadoo.es>

Thanks for the ideas,
But, what about the order? If we want to be "fuctional" the order is not 
to be important:

qsort=lambda l : len(l) > 1 and (...)
(...) qsort(elts_lt_x(l))+[l[0]]+qsort(elts_greq_x(l)) or l
elts_lt_x=lambda l : [y for y in l[1:] if y<l[0]]
elts_greq_x=lambda l : [y for y in l[1:] if y>=l[0]]

My aim is not to put all in a line, (if you want you can put the qsort 
in c in the same line!!) but use a similar sintaxis of a pure functional 
language.
I think "structurally" because i'm a c programmer but learning Python 
i'm apreciating his functional style. Python permit it but, we think 
functionally when we make algorithms?












From maney at pobox.com  Wed Jun 25 21:43:26 2003
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:43:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Check your Wikis
References: <6a351$3ef6f993$516049d2$22156@nf1.news-service.com> <23891c90.0306250537.565529a8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bddj3u$d79$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.net> wrote:
> I know that it's "against the Wiki way" or <insert other devotion
> statement to arbitrary principles here>, but is it really that

The Wiki Way (as I understand it) isn't arbitrary.  Idealistic,
certainly, maybe a bit unrealistic by modern hard-headed standards,
but... you don't get results beyond hope unless you trust beyond
reason, you know.  :-)

> intrusive to insist that people register to edit Wikis containing
> useful and important information?

Yes, but it may none the less become necessary.  Up until now, wikis
have had nothing your average neo-barb wanted, but if they should
actually work as a way to get better placement on search engines, well,
there are a lot of people out there who seem to think that being able
to boost one's placement on Google is worth just about anything.

But maybe not.  What these vandals hope to get is the search-engine
karma from being linked to by lots of other sites, but any wiki whose
link is worth much will probably have folks watching who will undo the
damage.  If that is the usual outcome, and assuming that links from
small, dormant wikis aren't of much value, then this practice will
probably be abandoned, at least by the majority of pond scum.

All of which makes me a little more hopeful about the fate of a
possible wiki-to-be that some of us have been talking about recently.

-- 
C makes an art of confusing pointers with arrays and strings, which
leads to lotsa neat pointer tricks; APL mistakes everything for an array,
leading to neat one-liners; and Perl confuses everything period,
making each line a joyous adventure <wink>.  -- Tim Peters



From scook at elp.rr.com  Thu Jun 19 01:41:34 2003
From: scook at elp.rr.com (Stan Cook)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 05:41:34 GMT
Subject: Capture DOS error???
Message-ID: <i2cIa.32792$1w1.2496059@twister.austin.rr.com>

I'm writing a script which at some point will map to a list of servers.  The
program will be keeping a log of problems it encounters to be reviewed
later. To map the drive, I am using:

sDrive =
["B","F","G","I","J","K","L","M","N","O","P","Q","R","S","T","U","V","W","X"
,"Y","Z"]
iIndex = 0
shellCmd = ""
    for s in sImage:  # list of servers
        shellCmd =  "map " + sDrive[iIndex] + ":=" + s
        iIndex=iIndex + 1
        os.system(shellCmd)

My question is this...Is there a way to capture the DOS error it would
display if it had a problem mapping the server?  I want to detect the
exception if there is one and write it to the log file.  I have tried using
OSError, SystemError, and StandardError without success.  I'm not
necessarily looking for someone to write the code for me as much as pointing
me in the right direction.

Thanks,







From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun  8 16:58:07 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:58:07 -0600
Subject: Factorials
In-Reply-To: <4067ev4btufgkb6h4frm5lvej605650kks@4ax.com>; from tim@remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk on Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 09:33:12PM +0100
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <3ee1fa98$0$45181$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net> <4067ev4btufgkb6h4frm5lvej605650kks@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030608145807.A5341@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Tim Rowe:
  [...]
> - Anton's solution barfs on  R = [x*y for x,y in zip(R[::2],R[1::2])],
> complaining that the sequence index must be an integer.

Try it on Python 2.3, where extended slice notation actually works
for lists.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                  staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Telekinesis would be worth patenting."  -- James Gleick




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Jun  4 00:02:55 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 04:02:55 GMT
Subject: reStructured Text - suitable for non-documentation?
References: <slrnbdle2r.h32.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <2259b0e2.0306020703.3db3a717@posting.google.com> <3EDB6B80.7090608@mxm.dk> <2259b0e2.0306021308.2413a0da@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <PbeDa.34724$ca5.29977@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

"Michele Simionato" <mis6 at pitt.edu> wrote in message
> Hey, literate programming is great!!
>
> But if it was invented in 1984, why is it so little
> widespread ? I hardly heard about it before today
> (except for Leo, the literate programming editor,
> which however I never tried).

It is still around and has many incarnations such as CWEB,
Leo, etc.  There a few issues limiting its popularity.

One of the core ideas is write a piece of documentation that
is a cross between a well written essay and concrete detail
documentation.  The problem here is that not that many
people write well enough to achieve even the essay and
even fewer can effectively combine that with detail docs.
The writing skills need to augmented by knowledge of
the markup language (usually TeX).  And the writer needs
to know the programming language being used.  And the
programmer needs to be skillful enough to write a program
in disconnected fragments that still makes sense and can
be debugged after re-assembly.

Donald Knuth is one person who has all of these skills
and can apply them all at the same time.  In contrast,
the average Joe is lucky to have even a few of the
skills, much less being able to apply them all at the
same time.  It is rarer still to find teams where all of
the programmers can read and write in a literate style.
As some of the python developers can attest, it takes
a while just to get the LaTeX markup correct.

Even if all of the pieces fall into place, there is still a
sense that it takes a lot of work.  So, eventhough there
is a certain pleasure to writing literate code, it is something
you tend to save for that special program and then find that
most tasks are too mundane to warrant using your heavy gun.

Also, I find that the process of writing literately collides with
the Test Driven Development process.  I'm sure it's possible
to do both at the same time, they just don't seem to fit together
naturally.


> BTW, I have in mind an integration of documentation+test suite,
> not documentation+program (a la Knuth).

+1


Raymond Hettinger





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jun 19 16:19:41 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 16:19:41 -0400
Subject: sum(strings)
References: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <Xns939FAB54E7C9Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <w%lIa.209490$g92.4306887@news2.tin.it> <7xu1amvu8g.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <bct5st$7u4$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <7xu1amvu8g.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin  <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
>>
>> No, if sum accepted a sequence of strings it WOULD
>> have to delegate to ''.join in that case -- and I just couldn't
>> find an elegant and totally general way to do that. 
>
>Why can't it just check if all the values are strings, and delegate if
>they are?

Wouldn't be a problem if strings were really the only issue, but once
you start adding Unicode and other string-like objects...
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From djc at object-craft.com.au  Tue Jun 24 00:41:59 2003
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 14:41:59 +1000
Subject: ANNOUNCE: JOTWeb 1.11, preview of new web application system.
References: <20030617162210.GB5896@tummy.com> <1055884182.1169.11.camel@emilio> <mailman.1055919212.4742.python-list@python.org> <m3he6nbr78.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <20030619102215.GC23876@tummy.com> <m3el1q9uio.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <mailman.1056066276.16798.python-list@python.org> <m3isr1pn6z.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <mailman.1056257622.20007.python-list@python.org> <m3y8ztbndo.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <mailman.1056411047.23704.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3n0g813zc.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "Sean" == Sean Reifschneider <jafo-pythonlist at tummy.com> writes:

Sean> On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 11:20:35AM +1000, Dave Cole wrote:
>> OK.  I think I have been arguing the wrong issue :-)

Sean> Yeah, I think that may be the case...  :-) It does really boil
Sean> down to a subjective issue, I don't like always having to have
Sean> the python code that calls into the template.

I have no problem with that.  For some applications that is a more
natural approach.

Sean> I would like to suggest that you include an example earlier on
Sean> about making the global name-space available and an example of
Sean> the abbreviated calling mechanisms.  It was clear from my half
Sean> hour of reading the docs that I could get by with anything less
Sean> than a dozen lines of code...

The documentation is never as good as it should be.

Sean> Most of it is that I'm working from an understanding of
Sean> Albatross which is much shallower than yours.  The examples in
Sean> the documentation are rather unlike the shorter examples you've
Sean> provided here.

The sample applications could certainly be improved.

Sean> One thing that I do like in JOTWeb is the cascading of modules
Sean> and HTML templates.  I set up a "templates.html" page in the
Sean> top-level directory, and sub-directories can reference the
Sean> templates within it, ditto for code or variables, etc...

JOTWeb makes me think of server-side includes that are useful and
extensible.  So useful that you can actually build an application with
them.

Sean> It seems likely that I could do something similar with
Sean> Albatross, now that we've had this discussion, as I said in a
Sean> previous message.

Probably could.

Sean> I'm half tempted to either incorporate the ability to do this
Sean> with Albatross in addition to SimpleTAL into JOTWeb, or look at
Sean> switching over to Albatross...

SimpleTAL in Albatross would be a cool thing.  Pluggable templating is
not really supported in Albatross.  I suspect that you could get
something going fairly quickly though.

Sean> However, I really want to be building sites right now.  <sigh>

Real work - how boring :-)

Sean> I had looked at the mixin reference quickly when I first looked
Sean> at the docs, but I couldn't really understand how they were of
Sean> use...  Examples in this section of the document would be
Sean> extremely useful to new Albatross users.

Documentation is not as good as it could/should be in quite a few
places.

Albatross is intended to be a little bit more than just a toolkit for
building applications.  In a sense it is also a toolkit construction
kit.  The documentation does not really stress the toolkit
construction part though.

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au



From donn at drizzle.com  Wed Jun 11 02:16:06 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:16:06 -0000
Subject: PEP-317
References: <1055255402.3ee5eb6ae09ee@mcherm.com> <bc551q$mie$1@main.gmane.org> <mailman.1055297660.22329.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1055312155.157424@yasure>

Quoth Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net>:
...
| So - 3.0 too early?  Ok.  Tell us what you think a reasonable
| schedule might look like.  Constructive feedback, that would be.

"Never" would be a reasonable schedule, hope that's constructive.
The reasons advanced for breaking currently valid "raise" statements
would be excellent for a newly introduced feature, but those same
excellent sentiments add up to "gratuitous" here.  Break things
only when necessary, not just for the sake of tidiness.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sun Jun 22 20:05:05 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 00:05:05 GMT
Subject: random function with strings
References: <3ef51a51$0$8029$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>
Message-ID: <RurJa.7672$Kg7.5178@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

"ataraxia2500"
> I have a function that goes through a directory and I would like to remove
> randomly one of the files contained in that directory.

Giving full access rights to a secretary or new programmer
ought to insure an occassional random file deletion ;-)


Raymond Hettinger





From yweng at cs.uoregon.edu  Thu Jun 12 05:48:51 2003
From: yweng at cs.uoregon.edu (Yan Weng)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 02:48:51 -0700
Subject: long-term release schedule?
References: <mailman.1054692908.26987.python-list@python.org> <5654fff9.0306112203.6aa1ef99@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bc9is2$fr0$1@pith.uoregon.edu>

The core of python still needs to enhanced.
+ byte code optimize
   |- The current CISC like byte code may be not the best choice.
+ Speed improvement needed for scientific computing.
+ Static analysis tools needed to reduce error-finding time for commercial
products.

Utilities needed to improve.
+ IDE: VB before VB.Net is a pretty bad language but it still gets a lot of
users. Why? It has
            a convient IDE making implementing some typical tasks easily.

Python need to be *very* successful in "some areas" to gain the attention of
the IT industry.
    |- Testing, Scientific computing and Web applications seem the potential
areas.
    |- The enough support from big companies will garantee the time of the
best python programmers.
        Recently, I checked out the websites of some good python
programmers. I found their economic status are not good. If a person can't
feed up their family. How can you ask them to contribute more time on the
free things?

Just some thoughts.
--
Yan Weng
yweng at cs.uoregon.edu
http://www.cs.uoregon.edu/~yweng/

"Ray Smith" <ray at rays-web.com> wrote in message
news:5654fff9.0306112203.6aa1ef99 at posting.google.com...
> "Tim Peters" <tim_one at email.msn.com> wrote in message
>
> > [Gerrit Holl]
> > > does a long-term release schedule exist? I know that, after Python
> > > 2.3, Python 2.4 will follow.
>
> [snip]
>
> > Sorry, nobody knows.  Python 3.0 in particular would require finding a
way
> > to fund at least Guido's time on it, and there's no obvious way (at this
> > time) to do that.
>
>
> I'm looking at introducing Python into a corporate environment and the
> above
> statement seems at least a little worrying (the first time I thought
> about it).
>
> Thinking again it seems obvious that any Open Source or Proprietary
> software
> can be discontinued.  I guess this is where Open Source software
> excels since
> other people can pick the ball up and continue on with bug fixes and
> further
> development.
>
> Now to my question: (a silly question really ... but what the heck)
>
> The core Python language seems very stable, if bug fixes where the
> only changes
> to Python in the next 5-10 years would Python still gain in popularity
> as fast as
> it is now?
>
> It seems that the libraries and addon's are probably more important
> (from here on in)
> to the overall usage and popularity of Python??
>
> What are people's thoughts?
>
> Regards,
>
> Ray Smith





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun 26 23:43:25 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 23:43:25 -0400
Subject: stupid question about os.listdir
References: <MTNKa.2930$BM.1845254@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <xoOKa.3259$BM.1850510@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3EFBBD5D.3969BF7A@engcorp.com>

Jason Kratz wrote:
> 
> def getdirs(path):
>      os.chdir(path)
>      for entry in os.listdir(path):
>          if os.path.isdir(entry):
>              dirs.append(entry)
> 
> if I run this from the command line on linux with 'python backup.py' it
> works *if* I have os.chdir in there.  if I comment it out it doesnt list
> starting from the root dir...it starts in my home dir.

This might mean you are not passing it an absolute path, but 
instead a relative one.  Absolute paths (on Linux) are those
which start with a / (forward slash).  Anything without that
will start from the current directory only.

But without actual examples of which paths are failing, as
Ben has asked for, we know nothing for certain.

Is it also possible that you are not having a problem with listdir()
at all, but with the values you are passing to os.path.isdir()?
You realize that os.listdir() returns names that are *relative*
to the path parameter you give it?  So that if you then pass those
to isdir() you will get nothing useful if you don't first do
this instead? :

  entry = os.path.join(path, entry)
  if os.path.isdir(entry):
     dirs.append(entry)

-Peter



From jack at performancedrivers.com  Sun Jun  1 11:10:05 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 11:10:05 -0400
Subject: PyModule for ID3 v2.2+
In-Reply-To: <3EDA120F.ADEBBDAA@hotmail.com>; from alanmk@hotmail.com on Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 03:47:43PM +0100
References: <2147483647.1054415157@[192.168.0.3]> <mailman.1054415749.11654.python-list@python.org> <3EDA120F.ADEBBDAA@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20030601111005.M1276@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 03:47:43PM +0100, Alan Kennedy wrote:
> Alexander Winston wrote:
> 
> > I beg of you _not_ to include write support for the ID3v2 "standard."
> 
> I'd be interested to know while you feel this way. ID3v2 seems like such
> convenient way to inline application-related data in an MP3 file, for example.
> 

"standard" is in sneer quotes because it isn't really a standard, just common.
Most people still use id3v1 which just used fixed length fields.  v1 is
extremely easy to implement and people did again and again and again.
Most of the id3 projects on freshmeat implement v1 and will do heinous stuff
to your files (or at a minimum just suck).

I used to read the id3v2 mailing list (couple years ago) and stopped because
it was a constant flame war.  People agreed it should do everything but not
on how to implement everything. The reference C implementation of id3v2 weighs 
in at a 1M gziped tarball.  You can write an mp3 _player_ smaller than that.
(the xmms player source which includes a gui is only 2.7M)

-jack




From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Mon Jun 23 16:40:28 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:40:28 +0100
Subject: New to Python...feedback?
In-Reply-To: <20030623143956.814174481@sitemail.everyone.net>
References: <20030623143956.814174481@sitemail.everyone.net>
Message-ID: <200306232140.28116.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

danka,

Been busy, I see... you asked for comments, so here they are:

	1) You've put all your data right inside the program - this is a "BAD THING" 
(tm).  You ought to either a) put it into a list or similar structure at the 
beginning, or b) even better, into a file of some sort - even just a simple 
text file, then read it into your program.  What if, for example, you wanted 
to do a French or German version ?  Even M$ don't rewrite their apps for each 
different language.

	2) Your program is just one long list of ifs and elses.  Maybe you should 
think about putting more of the logic into your data-structure (after 
covering point 1).  Draw your little adventure out as a diagram, eg. a tree, 
or network, showing how each part inter-relates.

	3) Think about storing the player's 'state', such as current location, what 
they're carrying, how healthy or otherwise they are and using that to affect 
the outcome of the game.


example (not thouroughly thought through, just enough to give you a start).  
You will still need to think about your data structures tho', but later on...

regards, 
-andyj

def getchoice(prompt,choices):
	global quit # global so we can change it from here
	n=1
	valid_choices=[]
	for choice in choices:
		print n,choice
		valid_choices.append(n)
		n=n+1
	valid_choices.append("q")
	resp="*"
	while resp not in valid_choices:
		resp=raw_input(prompt)
	if resp == "q":
		quit=1
	return resp

def bedroom():
	print "you hear the alarm go off at roughly 6am..."
	sleep(4)

	print "you feel groggy and tired still. for some reason..."
	sleep(4)

	print "YOU CAN'T REMEMBER WHO YOU ARE, WHERE YOU",
	print "ARE OR WHAT YOU'RE DONIG THERE!!!"
	sleep(4)
	print "[que cheesy mystery music] Dun dun DUN!"
	sleep(3)

	choice=getchoice(
		"what shall it be, O ye of no name?",
		 ["get up, in spite of the fact that you feel dead",
		  "just hit the snooze alarm...c'mon, just five more minutes...",
		  """ ignore it. sleep through it. it's not so bad. it's quite soothing,
			really."""]

	if choice == "1": return fryingpan
	elif choice == "2": return snooze
	elif choice == "3": return sleepthru

def fryingpan():
	# add your stuff about frying pan here...

def snooze():
	# stuff about snooze
		

def sleepthru():
	# stuff about sleepthru...


currentroom=bedroom # note the lack of brackets
					 #this means copy bedroom into currentroom
quit=0
state=["groggy"]
def mainloop():
	while not quit: # the next indented bit will be done until quit == 1
		move=currentroom() # do the thing for this room.  the brackets mean "do it"
		currentroom=move
		if quit:
			really=raw_input("Are you really sure yu want to quit? [Y/n]")
			if really.upper() != "Y":
				quit=0
			else:
				print "Oh, well - if you must.  You'll pay.  You know you will..."

		




From ed at membled.com  Mon Jun  9 02:43:50 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 07:43:50 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3he71hk52.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1u1b1h908.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3brx9xepd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1k7bwhnv5.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m33cikw4a0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <l1d6hng389.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) writes:

>>>That doesn't answer my question. What would be the output of this
>>>statement?
>> 
>>It is syntactically ambiguous because of the two print statements both
>>accepting commas.  
>
>This still doesn't answer my question "What would be the output?",

What I meant was, I imagine the output would be the same as the output
of the statement

    print ,))(

that is, a syntax error.

>I assume you want it to cause a SyntaxError.
>
>Then the question is what algorithm exactly do you apply to detect an
>ambiguity?

Yes - I don't know enough about parser generators to tell what they
do in the case of an ambiguity.  Would it find a syntax error or would
it pick one of the two alternatives based on which production occurs
earlier in the grammar definition?

>No, it is rejected because nobody has made a specification, yet, as
>to how exactly it should work. Only if a precise, detailed, complete,
>and implementable specification is made, it can be studied for
>undesired effects, and possibly be rejected.

OK.  My one-line grammar change and proposed semantics is not a
precise specification because I am not well-aquainted with the parser
generator Python uses and so I can't explain how it would affect the
language in corner cases, such as the ambiguous statement you
mentioned.

Are there already legal Python constructs that match two or more
grammar rules?

>>Elsewhere in this thread I have mentioned
>>
>>    lambda_form ::=
>>                 "lambda" [parameter_list]: simple_stmt
>>
>>which seems to match the specification of 'any statement that can fit
>>on one line' (which itself seems pretty exact to me).
>
>Elsewhere in the thread I have said that this interpretation is
>incorrect: a simple_stmt always ends with a NEWLINE, something which
>you apparently don't want.

And yet elsewhere I have replied citing the definition of simple_stmt
from <http://python.org/doc/current/ref/grammar.txt>, which seems to
show that simple_stmt does not end with a NEWLINE.

>It's counter-intuitive that
>
>x = (lambda s: print s)
>
>is incorrect. Under your proposal, it would be incorrect, and you
>would have to write
>
>x = (lambda s: print s
>)
>
>to insert the necessary NEWLINE.

No, please look at the grammar
<http://python.org/doc/current/ref/grammar.txt> and see that there is
no NEWLINE in simple_stmt.  Or if there is, point it out because I
must have overlooked it.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From tomas at fancy.org  Sat Jun 21 00:57:37 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:57:37 -0700
Subject: unittest and automatically firing off tests
Message-ID: <e9o7fvo04c3ocnp352vqbmmhrku30i61h4@4ax.com>

I'm a long-time CppUnit TDDer and a relatively competent C++
coder...  I'm trying to make tests that automatically fire off
every time I run the test app, so I derive my test classes from
unittest.TestCase, build a bunch of tests in each one called
testSomething, and name the file test_<class_under_test>.py.
Finally, I have test.py implemented as such:

: import unittest
: import os
: 
: if __name__ == "__main__":
:     names = os.listdir('.')
:     tests = []
:     for name in names:
:         if name[:5] == "test_" and name[-3:] == os.extsep+"py":
:             modname = name[:-3]
:             tests.append(modname)
:     tests.sort()
: 
:     for test in tests:
:         try:
:             unittest.main(test)
:         except SystemExit:
:             pass
: 
:     s = raw_input("\n<Enter> to continue.\n")
:     pass

Things I don't like about this?  You bet.

1) Why in the name of all that is holy does unittest.main() throw
   regardless of tests passing?

2) Why can't I readily pass a list of tests to unittest.main()? 
   (I mean, besides the fact that it's not implemented; was this
   a concious ommision?)

3) I feel like I should automatically batch up tests and fire
   them off to unittest.run() or something similar.  Is this as
   straight-forward and easy, and could I batch them all into one
   mega-suite?  Are there any reasons why I wouldn't want to do
   that?

Thanks.

-tom!



From olivier.ravard at novagrid.com  Fri Jun  6 04:53:18 2003
From: olivier.ravard at novagrid.com (Olivier Ravard)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:53:18 +0200
Subject: rcs manager
References: <mailman.1054837092.16482.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbpkcl$e5s$1@news.univ-rennes1.fr>

Mike Rovner wrote:

> "Olivier Ravard" <olivier.ravard at novagrid.com> wrote in
> comp.python.announce...
>> I'd like to aanouce the first release of RCSmanager
>> which is a front-end to RCS unix commands (ci, co, rcs, rlog).
> 
> Oops. It doesn't run on pure python installation 2.2.2:
> 
> !Error! NovaWidget package require Tcl/Tk BWidget and Tktable packages.
> 
> The message is clear, however I'd like to see it beforehand in README
> along with basic instructions how (where) to put them.
> Like that:
> '''
> Download latest
> TkTable from http://sourceforge.net/projects/tktable (2.7 is OK)
> BWidget from http://sourceforge.net/projects/tcllib (1.6 is OK)
> 
> Install by unpacking them in subdirectories of PYTHONHOME/tcl/tcl8.3
> and on Windows place Tktable.dll in PYTHONHOME/dlls
> '''
> 
> Also need to mention that it doesn't work on not unix because of use
> os.gelogin() call.
> 
Yes, I forgot to say that it works only for unix but there is
some little changes to make in order to work under windows 
(in the rcsview.py file).
> Regards,
> Mike




From pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com  Tue Jun 24 14:52:59 2003
From: pekka.niiranen at wlanmail.com (Pekka Niiranen)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:52:59 +0300
Subject: Help: printing Unicode characters during telnet session
Message-ID: <bda6re$uts$1@news1.songnet.fi>

Hi,

I have a multiuser script, that I would like to convert to Python.
The users open simultaneous telnet -sessions from win2000 to
an unix machine and possibly edit unicode textfiles. Currently users
use vi and more, but I would like to add unicode support to the script.
I would not like to force them to open X-sessions in order to show 
Multilanguage characters.

Should I create python shell or is there any other way ?
Python's "print" does not seem to work for all characters :(

Do not bother to point me to the existing FAQ and tutorials, because 
they do not provide solutions for this problem (searched whole day 
allready).

-pekka-




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Jun  9 13:42:49 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:42:49 -0400
Subject: Home directory problem
In-Reply-To: <3EE4AFDD.9020604@freemail.hu>
References: <3EE4AFDD.9020604@freemail.hu>
Message-ID: <3EE4C719.3080304@rogers.com>

This is the kind of thing that should really be in a module in the 
standard library, with lots of testing/collaboration establishing a 
robust solution.  I don't really have time to build such a thing, but 
here's a start that might help someone else work it up (attached). 

Notes:
     On Win32 you're not supposed to dump data into the user's 
profile/home directory, you're supposed to use a sub-directory in the 
AppData directory (or the Local App Data directory for non-roaming apps). 
    I haven't tested the module on Linux, but it's pretty simplistic on 
that side. 
    I'd rather see the seperate mechanisms for finding directories 
broken out into seperate functions for easier testing/verification/reuse. 
    There should really be mechanisms for retrieving the other 
shell-folder types (e.g. ttf font directories, profile directories, 
desktop directories, menu directories, in other words, a cross-platform 
version of Win32's SHGetFolderPath would be nice :) .

Oh well, it's a quick hack, you get what you pay for :) .

HTH,
Mike

Nagy L?szl? Zsolt wrote:

> Hi All! I wonder if there is a standard way to determine a user's 
> local directory. I know that unix compatible machines has an 
> enviroment variable called 'HOME'. Windows 2000 and XP machines have 
> an enviroment variable called 'HOMEPATH'. But I don't know how to read 
> this on Win9X, Mac and the possible others. Is there a standard way? 
> Some details: I'm writting a multi platform two-tiered source code 
> management tool. The clients need to store some information locally. 
> This information must be separated from other users. I'm using dumbdbm 
> and I'm searching the right place for the config database. Any ideas? 
> Thanks in advance.
>
>  Laci 1.0

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/


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From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun  4 05:13:52 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:13:52 +0200
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
In-Reply-To: <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20030604091352.GA2636@nl.linux.org>

Aahz schreef op woensdag  4 juni om 01:37:12 +0000:
> No argument; Guido considers the current method experimental.  The
> current front-runner for fixing this is to add function decorators:
> 
>     def myMethod(args) [staticmethod]:
>         blah, blah, blah
> 
> staticmethod would be a callable object that would return the
> replacement function object.  This would allow chained decorators.

Why not:

    def mymethod(args)(staticmethod):
        blah, blah, blah

It is unambigious and I think it's more readable.

I don't see how properties would fit into any of these syntaxes
though, because the property() function takes multiple arguments.

yours,
Gerrit.
-- 
40. He may sell field, garden, and house to a merchant (royal agents)
or to any other public official, the buyer holding field, house, and
garden for its usufruct.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jun 17 12:29:35 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:29:35 -0400
Subject: os.path weirdness
References: <bcne3p$qgp2@cui1.lmms.lmco.com>
Message-ID: <3EEF41EF.ACF5B0C0@engcorp.com>

Jeff Layton wrote:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> 
> import os.path
> 
> filep="/home1/laytojb/TEMP/tet.out"
> print "type: ",type(filep)
> if os.path.isfile(filep): #{
>      print "Found tet.out"
> else:
>      print "Cannot find tet.out"
> #}
> 
> This simple script works correctly and finds the
> file tet.out.
>     However, when I do virtually the same thing
> in a much longer script, it can never find the
> file, even though it exists. 

Since, clearly, these functions work in most cases, you'd
better post the relevant tiny section of the larger
script along with the name of the file it is looking for
and see what folks say.

I'd suggest the following:  change that large script, 
to include printing the results of "os.path.exists()"
as well, plus "os.path.isdir()" for good measure, and
also a call to "os.system('ls -l %s' % filep)" where
of course you use the same filep variable that the rest
of the script is operating on.

> I've checked my spelling
> many times, I've checked that the argument to
> os.path.isfile() is a string with no blank spaces
> (used string.stip() to peel off leading and trailing
> spaces). I still can't seem to find the file.

Another possibility is to learn to use the Python debugger
enough to troubleshoot this kind of thing.  Try this:

1. place "import pdb; pdb.set_trace()" just above the
line which is failing.

2. Run your code from the shell.

3. When it gets to the new lines, it will dump you into the
pdb prompt.  At this point carefully hit "r" and ENTER to
get out of the set_trace() routine's context, and up to the
level of the calling code.  You are now sitting in an 
interactive environment that lets you examine variables
and execute statements, or single step through the code.

4. Open a new shell and double-check that the file is really
there at this point in time.

5. Check the value in filep.  Also explore pdb a bit while
you're there.  Typing dir() is always a good help.

6. Step over the line containing the failing test using "n".  
See where it goes.  If it really can't find the file, you can
execute exactly the same statement (use the ! command as 
in "!os.path.isfile(filep)" or something like that) and
double-check what is going on.

7. Worst case, go back and do it again, only this time hit
"s" instead of "n" to single-step into the subroutine and
see what the heck it's doing.

By the way, you're not getting caught by something simple like
case-sensitivity under Linux, are you?

-Peter



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jun  8 16:27:52 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 13:27:52 -0700
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054675867.2029.python-list@python.org> <l1of1dljbd.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054759872.4871.python-list@python.org> <l1brxdlfac.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054837391.22613.python-list@python.org> <l1znkwjjky.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054857253.30080.python-list@python.org> <l1u1b3k9e8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004876.24354.python-list@python.org> <l1znkthb3f.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <2259b0e2.0306080421.4a5fa99d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE39C48.7F5CD741@alcyone.com>

Michele Simionato wrote:

> I have recently come to the habit of calling "_" my anonymous
> functions
> (especially in closures). It is very unobstrusive, clear, and save me
> the
> effort of thinking if I should name the internal function wrap,
> wrapper, wrapped, on any other similar verbose combination  ;)

That's a tempting "dummy" name for its brevity and uniqueness, but
unfortunately a number of internationalization systems, like gettext,
use the _ to wrap around string literals which need to be localized.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Youth is a period of missed opportunities.
\__/  Cyril Connolly



From ebolonev at front.ru  Sun Jun 22 21:12:25 2003
From: ebolonev at front.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:12:25 +1100
Subject: recursive glob
Message-ID: <bd5k7n$f72$1@news.rol.ru>

Hi all.

I have the recursive function glob(rec_glob), and I want to transform it
using yield
statement(get rid of lists - l and d).

yield func work incorrect an I can't fix it - please help me

Is there other implements for recursive glob?

===========================================
using lists
===========================================
def rec_glob_get_dirs(path):
    d=[]
    try:
        for i in os.listdir(path):
            if os.path.isdir(path+i):
                d.append(os.path.basename(i))
    except:pass
    return d

def rec_glob(path,mask):
    l=[]
    if path[-1]!='\\':
        path=path+'\\'
    for i in rec_glob_get_dirs(path):
        l=l+rec_glob(path+i,mask)
    try:
        for i in os.listdir(path):
            ii=i
            i=path+i
            if os.path.isfile(i):
                if fnmatch.fnmatch(ii,mask):
                    l.append(i)
    except:pass
    return l
===========================================


===========================================
using yield
===========================================
import os,fnmatch

def rec_glob_get_dirs(path):
    try:
        for i in os.listdir(path):
            if os.path.isdir(path+i):
                yield os.path.basename(i) # work ok
    except:pass

def rec_glob(path,mask):
    if path[-1]!='\\':
        path=path+'\\'
    for i in rec_glob_get_dirs(path):
        rec_glob(path+i,mask)
    try:
        for i in os.listdir(path):
            ii=i
            i=path+i
            if os.path.isfile(i):
                if fnmatch.fnmatch(ii,mask):
                    yield i # :-(
    except:pass

if __name__ == '__main__':
    f=open('log','wb')
    for i in rec_glob('C:\\python23\\lib','*'):
        f.write(i+'\n')
    f.close()
    print 'Done.'
    #while 1:pass
===========================================

--
    Egor





From paddy3118 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT  Sun Jun  8 12:17:23 2003
From: paddy3118 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT (Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 17:17:23 +0100
Subject: Hardware take on software testing.
References: <2ae25c6b.0306060450.78e988f9@posting.google.com> <3EE0CF2B.57F474E4@engcorp.com> <2ae25c6b.0306061721.148300a@posting.google.com> <3EE14F0A.3D1E1887@engcorp.com> <2ae25c6b.0306070624.141e4b42@posting.google.com> <3ee29460$0$268$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3EE36193.40101@blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT>


Tom Verbeure wrote:
>>We can find hard to get at bugs with this technique in HW design,
>>that's why I'd also like it added to the software arsenal.
> 
> 
> There are some major differences between hardware and software develoment
> that make directed random testing (DRT) much less efficient for software.
> 
> Conceptually, a software program is basically one HUGE statemachine where
> every variable in the data memory influences the progress of the state
> machine (even if you don't usually think like it that way.)
> 
> In hardware, you also have a whole bunch of explicitly designed state
> machines that work in parallel. 
> 
> This technique is not very useful for software, especially if it's single
> threaded: if the software isn't interactive, there isn't much chance of
> problems due to arbitration between parallel events, since there aren't any.
> :-)  (A lot of DRTs are written to find arbitration errors between
> statemachines.) 

Random testing is also good at exploring a large combination of input 
states.

> 
> In addition, to make DRT really useful, you need a golden model to verify
> that the results generated by randomly generated data is correct. This means
> you need to write a certain piece of software twice, with exactly the same
> higher level behaviour.
> How would you verify, say, a Python interpreter with random testing? By
> writing one in C and another one in Java, throwing random instructions at
> them and checking the behaviour, right? Well, you just created 2 highly
> complex multi-man-year projects. :-)

I know this is done developing assemblers together with the RTL for the 
CPU. You set up a constrained random generator of assembly code. The 
constraints may do things like ensure that the same register is not used 
twice in a MUL instruction, or that a number is not divided by zero 
(very often).
In Python you could randomly generate valid programs, where the 
constraints ensured for example, that a set of known generators of 
exceptions, were always trapped.
You could then leave the generator to generates thousands of python 
statements that should not throw an untrapped exception. If one is 
thrown then either there is a problem in the interpreter, or the 
generator needs further constraining. over time, the Random program 
genearator would get better at generating correct Python programs, and 
the Python interpreter would get less buggy.
Yes the Random generator would evolve into a complex program in itself, 
but you could be finding bugs along the way even with the partially 
constrained version.

> 
> Due to the huge up front costs and turn around time, it makes sense for
> hardware to make a golden model. 
> 
> In other words, for software, it's not cost effective, since it's usually
> quite easy to make bugfixes in later revisions and tell a customer not to
> use a particular feature for a while or quickly ship a patch. It's much
> harder to tell the user of an IP router chip to avoid packets that contain a
> certain sequence of bytes and to wait 6 months for a new revision of the
> chip that can then be replaced on the PCB.
Can't argue against that. Every second someone opens some shrink-wrapped 
CD of software passing up the license that says 'Oh by-the-way, if it 
don't work correctly: Tough-titty'! And then goes on with 'We would like 
you to pay twice forthe features that didn't work by paying for the (so 
called) upgrade'.
As long as us dopes keep buying it then the developers of software have 
no incentive to improve.

> 
> 
>>I don't doubt that XP and TDD can be an advance on previous methods,
>>I'm just wary of the lack of metrics. And I'm unsure of how you
>>alleviate the problem of only testing how one person or close team
>>think it should work. 
>>Is TDD enough?
> 
> 
> Apparently it is good enough for most people, since virtually nobody will go
> farther than that.
> 
> Tom





From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jun  2 23:29:02 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 20:29:02 -0700
Subject: integer to string?
References: <3edbffd5.61792491@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <3EDC15FE.17818ABD@alcyone.com>

Hendrik Reinhold wrote:

> capisuite.audio_send(call,my_path+var1+".la")
> 
> I guess that var1 is an integer and that I cannot concat the var1
> with the path variable and the file extension. I couldn?t find out how
> to convert the variables (int to string), and phyton.org was not very
> usefull for me, a python newbie.  ;)

Easy, try something like

	capisuite.audio_send(call, my_path + str(var1) + ".la")

or

	capisuite.audio_send(call, "%s%d%s" % (my_path, var1, ".la")


-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ God will forgive me; that's his business.
\__/  Heinrich Heine



From troy at gci.net  Tue Jun 17 02:02:03 2003
From: troy at gci.net (Troy Melhase)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:02:03 -0800
Subject: Observer Pattern (if you got some spare time)
References: <3eee0283$1_1@news.vo.lu> <gigsev43cjqai69lr34h8gsu34h8gdaro2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vetbmkcrcp303c@corp.supernews.com>

Tim Rowe wrote:

> I'm interested in the comment on class PubSub: "you should only need
> one instance of this class". It looks to me that it would be quite
> hard to manage that on a big project; if you made the one instance a
> global that makes class reuse harder. If it's local you have to make
> it available to anything that needs it. The approach in Gamma et al
> looks to be to be far easier to manage: make each subject handle its
> own message queue rather than have a centralised despatcher.  Is there
> a reason you didn't go that route, given that Python supports the
> necessary multiple inheritance?  Gamma's solution does have memory
> management problems in C++ (I've still not worked out how to make it
> robust in the presence of observers being deleted), but I don't think
> those issues come up in Python.

A quick read of the code suggests that the comment is in error; I don't see
any reason why clients couldn't construct multiple instances of the PubSub
class.  There are no classmethods, no staticmethods, and no references to
the PubSub class by any code other than the example client at the bottom. 

There might be a use case that I'm not seeing, but I'd bet that Patrick
implied a behavior he didn't need with the comment.

-troy



From theller at python.net  Fri Jun 20 14:28:49 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:28:49 +0200
Subject: Saving Files Under Windows -- Py2Exe and Installer
References: <mailman.1055758139.3258.python-list@python.org> <3EEDEF93.1629EB53@easystreet.com>
 <3EF34CF6.8DE52B99@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <n0gceh7i.fsf@python.net>

achrist at easystreet.com writes:

> OK. Here's the next level conundum of this maze of what goes where
> and who can do what under Windows.  If I distribute an app as a 
> one file distro using py2exe or the McMillan installer, when it runs
> IIRC it wants to explode itself back into multiple pieces that are 
> deleted at the end of the run.  I'm guessing that this means that
> the user must have privileges to create files in the program's
> directory.  Is that so?

py2exe doesn't have a one file option. Always you have at least two
files (but possibly more), your exe and the pythonxx.dll. py2exe never
creates files by itself.

I don't know too much about installer, but IMO it explodes its files in
the temp directory, otherwise the onefile executable wouldn't be able to
run from CD rom.

Thomas



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun  8 16:21:21 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:21:21 -0600
Subject: imghdr.what failed to identify JPEG
In-Reply-To: <vH-dnaAw1vI6FX6jXTWcqg@comcast.com>; from tjreedy@udel.edu on Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 02:59:55PM -0400
References: <e305e171.0306071703.79d45683@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055048975.23465.python-list@python.org> <e305e171.0306080318.5e7d08b9@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055086335.1441.python-list@python.org> <vH-dnaAw1vI6FX6jXTWcqg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <20030608142121.A5259@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Terry Reedy:
  [...]
> This strikes me as something reasonable to submit an SF patch or bug
> report for.

<http://www.python.org/sf/751031>

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                     staschuk at telusplanet.net
Receive them ignorant; dispatch them confused.  (Weschler's Teaching Motto)




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Thu Jun  5 19:10:03 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:10:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Twisted Panglossia
In-Reply-To: <slrnbdv8vl.ktj.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
References: <u65nk5x8p.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
 <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
 <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com>
 <mailman.1054749788.8638.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1054830612.3231.python-list@python.org>
 <w/43+kKkXUlb092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnbdv8vl.ktj.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306051608460.17914@ns0.tbye.com>

On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, Dave Benjamin wrote:

> In article <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list at python.org>, David Mertz wrote:
> > But I've noticed something both on the Twisted list, and when Twisted
> > has come up here on c.l.py recently.  The Twisted developers have a
> > greater excess of enthusiasm for their package than do the developers of
> > other large frameworks (even more than my Pollyannaishness in my
> > ironically confessed advocacy of my own little tools).
>
> Really? I had no idea you were Polynesian! ;)
>
> A search for "Pollyannaishness" on Google returns 3 results. Merriam Webster
> offers no definition. Care to elucidate this obfuscation? =)

http://www.bibliomania.com/0/0/39/77/frameset.html

The Disney version was even worse than the book sounds. ;-)

-Dave




From icarroll at pobox.com  Thu Jun 26 23:42:03 2003
From: icarroll at pobox.com (W Isaac Carroll)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:42:03 -0700
Subject: Python executables?
References: <mailman.1056619905.13226.python-list@python.org> <3EFAFB13.1090506@removeme.free.fr> <bdfcf2$1uii$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3EFBBD0B.3050904@pobox.com>

Aur?lien G?ron wrote:
> I don't see small footprint and fast execution speed as antagonist at all,
> quite the contrary.  In fact, assembly code produces the fastest and
> smallest programs.

When choosing between programming languages there is little correlation 
between size of code and speed of execution. However, within a given 
language size and speed are usually opposing considerations. For 
example, to speed up a loop you often unroll it thus decreasing 
execution time at the expense of increasing code size.

TTFN





From junk at geekabytes.net  Mon Jun  9 13:15:35 2003
From: junk at geekabytes.net (Nielson Family)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:15:35 -0600
Subject: Prolog-style unification?
In-Reply-To: <20030609104437.E778@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
References: <HlmEa.107$Hw.137249@news2.news.adelphia.net> <mailman.1055018594.20123.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.06.08.02.28.12.52487@webone.com.au> <20030609104437.E778@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
Message-ID: <3EE4C0B7.1030303@geekabytes.net>

Steven Taschuk wrote:

>Quoth Simon Burton:
>  
>
>>On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 14:38:40 -0600, junk wrote:
>>    
>>
>  [...]
>  
>
>>>while Father(X,Y):
>>>    print X, Y
>>>      
>>>
>>Know about iterators?
>>
>>i'd like to see
>>for x,y in Father():
>>  print x, y
>>    
>>
>
>It's not clear how you'd do any more complex query with such a
>scheme.  What if you want grandfathers of Seth, for example?  The
>original allows for the possibility of something like
>
>    Father(X, Y) & Father(Y, "Seth")
>
>for example.
>
>  
>
Yes, you can do this.  I am working to make the syntax exactly like prolog.

So,

while Grandfather(X,"Seth"):
    print X

is what you would do.

Right now the syntax works like this:

you define facts by using values (non-logic variables):
father("Seth","Alex")
father("Seth","Drystan")      ## mykids ;)

and you query by using a logic variable

father(X,"Alex")
father(X,Y)

AND, you can query strings by setting a query mode

father.setMode(logc.QUERY)
father("Seth","Alex")   #returns true.

This extends to inferences (like Grandfather).

I'm currently working on making facts and inferences work together.  For 
example, you could declare one person to be another's grandfather or via 
inference.

As I've said in other emails, the pseudo syntax is changing constantly 
as I try to figure out the best way to do it.

-- Seth





From donnal at donnal.net  Wed Jun 25 21:34:03 2003
From: donnal at donnal.net (Donnal Walter)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:34:03 -0500
Subject: Anyone using Venster?
In-Reply-To: <20030620215430.E36525@bullseye.apana.org.au>
References: <3ef182ca$0$13798$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <20030620215430.E36525@bullseye.apana.org.au>
Message-ID: <3EFA4D8B.4010004@donnal.net>

Andrew MacIntyre wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Guyon Mor?e wrote:
> 
>>Recently I discovered the 'Venster' package at http://venster.sf.net/
>>
>>I really like the idea of using this instead of the pywin/mfc stuff. The
>>only problem is that there is almost no documentation and I can not find
>>anything on the web/newsgroup about it.
>>
>>So i was wondering if anyone's using this and likes to share some code.
> 
> 
> Venster is still pretty young and raw, as is the underlying ctypes
> package, though ctypes is maturing rapidly.
> 
> I'm experimenting with Venster at work, as I'm having to use ctypes to
> access a COM package which has very limited support for COM automation,
> and is thus not really usable from Mark Hammond's win32all package :-(.
> 
> As Venster is only a fairly thin wrapper about various Windows APIs (ATL &
> WTL in particular), I've been able to use the online docs at MSDN (in
> conjunction with the samples) to get by so far.
> 
> How much further I can get remains to be seen...

There is a new mailing list available: venster-users at lists.sourceforge.net

Donnal Walter
Arkansas Children's Hospital






From leej at dsl.pipex.com  Mon Jun 16 12:22:11 2003
From: leej at dsl.pipex.com (Lee John Moore)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 16:22:11 GMT
Subject: class variable declarations...
References: <bckftl$k0pe7$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de> <3EEDD509.890691F5@engcorp.com> <bckof6$kaji2$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de> <3EEDE9AC.15699B8A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bckqrj$k968f$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de>

One may as well begin with Peter Hansen's letter to comp.lang.python:
[..]

Pardon the snipping.  I'm a bit worried about leaving too much
in for the sake of mailing list bandwidth. :)

[..]
> *All* instances that are created automatically have access to
> this shared value because it is a *class* attribute, rather
> than an instance attribute.  All the items prefixed with self.
> are instance attributes, and pertain only to a single instance
> of a class, never to all instances.

You've helped me realise where I misunderstood the original
respondent.  It's only obvious after reading your message
though.  Thanks for explaining.  Much appreciated.  :)
-- 
"However far you may travel in this world, you
will still occupy the same volume of space."
                - Traditional Ur-Bororo saying



From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Jun 13 08:50:46 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:50:46 GMT
Subject: Use __del__ methods to improve gc?
References: <mailman.1055467284.29996.python-list@python.org> <vejgchlpq414d1@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <GMjGa.155920$g92.3166903@news2.tin.it>

Edward K. Ream wrote:

>> As others have explained, no, gc scans everything when it's time for it
>> to
>> get scanned <wink>.  An interesting question may be why you suspect gc
>> *needs* help.  For example, is gc taking a lot of time in your app?
> 
> Chuckle.  This question reminds me Alex Martelli's amusing remarks about
> the new timeit module on c.l.p.
> 
> Can anyone give me the name and date of the thread? I really should post
> Alex's closing remarks on my wall.  A quick search of google and the
> archives hasn't unearthed it.


I suspect the paragraph you mean might be...:

"""
Personally, I nominate timeit.py as THE outstanding enhancement of
Python 2.3 -- I love many of the others (the performance improvement
in particular), but timeit.py is the one I find myself using all of
the time -- seems to provide an innocuous way for programmers' typical
obsession with performance and micro-optimization to discharge itself
harmlessly, cleansing their souls to choose idioms on the basis of
clarity, maintainability and readability, as of course SHOULD be done:-).
"""

I posted that text on May 8.


Alex




From dj3000 at iinet.net.au.nospam  Wed Jun  4 04:24:30 2003
From: dj3000 at iinet.net.au.nospam (DJ)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:24:30 +1000
Subject: Updating SQL table problems with python
References: <3eddac41$0$31519$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <3eddacbe$0$31519$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>

Realised when posting this that title value is misspelt
That was not the error though :)

"DJ" <dj3000 at iinet.net.au.nospam> wrote in message
news:3eddac41$0$31519$5a62ac22 at freenews.iinet.net.au...
> Hi there,
>
> I get a Syntax error from this following SQL statement:
>
> file_open = urllib.urlopen(url)
> xmldoc = minidom.parse(file_open)
> file_open.close()
> blah = xmldoc.toxml()
> title = minidom.parseStrin(blah).getElementsByTagNam('title')
>
> connection = gadfly.gadfly("portal", "dbase")
> cursor = connection.cursor()
> for x in title:
>         j = x.firstChild.data
>         j = j.encode('ascii', 'replace')
>         cursor.execute("update items set title = '%s' where title =
'Title'"
> % j)
>         connection.commit()
>
> As you can tell, im parsing a xml RSS feed and updating items table. Im
> trying to replace
> default value of 'Title' with the title from the RSS feed.
> The update statement is givng me the syntax error
> I cant see whats wrong
>
> Need some help
> Thanks in advance
> Adam
>
>





From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jun 20 20:02:03 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:02:03 -0700
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com>

Van Gale wrote:

> There's a very subtle bug (feature?) in bash (and maybe other shells?)
> that will generate this error if the line is terminated with a CR/LF
> pair instead of just a linefeed.

Yes, it's common to other shells.  It's not a feature, but it's not a
"bug" per se -- using CR LF terminated text files on Unix is operator
error.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ It's soulful music.  It doesn't necessarily sound like ... soul ...
\__/  Sade Adu



From just at xs4all.nl  Thu Jun  5 08:30:08 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 14:30:08 +0200
Subject: Singleton class: what is the purpose?
References: <mailman.1054811769.993.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-EE6BC0.14300805062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.1054811769.993.python-list at python.org>,
 Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:

> Guido's article on unifying types and classes mentions singleton classes.
> It says:
> 
> """
> As another example of __new__, here's a
> way to implement the singleton pattern.
> """
> (http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html)
> 
> What is a singleton class? What is the purpose of a singleton class?
>
> On the web, I have found that a singleton class allows only one instance.
> Is that correct?

Yes.

> If so, it should be easily implementable with:
> 
>  20 >>> class Singleton(object):
>  20 ...  instances = []
>  20 ...  def __init__(self):
>  20 ...   if len(self.__class__.instances) == 0:
>  20 ...    self.__class__.instances.append(self)
>  20 ...   else:
>  20 ...    raise Exception("No way jose!")
>  20 ... # to do it correct, I think getrefcount would me neccesary
>  53 >>> Singleton()
> <__main__.Singleton object at 0x403afe4c>
>  54 >>> Singleton()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "<stdin>", line 7, in __init__
> Exception: No way jose!
>  55 >>> del Singleton.instances[0] # delete the last reference to the object
>  56 >>> Singleton()
> <__main__.Singleton object at 0x403affac>

It's not about enforcing it to be called only once, it's about 
guaranteeing you always get the same instance. Here's a Singleton object 
I recently wrote (it's simpler than Guido's -- I don't quite understand 
why he's mucking with __dict__ and adds an init() method):

  >>> class Singleton(object):
  ...     _instance = None
  ...     def __new__(cls, *args, **kwargs):
  ...         if cls._instance is None:
  ...             cls._instance = object.__new__(cls)
  ...         return cls._instance
  ... 
  >>> a = Singleton()
  >>> b = Singleton()
  >>> a is b
  1
  >>>

> But what is the purpose of a Singleton class?

In my case it was basically a euphemism for a global variable ;-)

Just



From stephan.diehl at gmx.net  Mon Jun 30 06:27:58 2003
From: stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:27:58 +0200
Subject: question about metaclasses
Message-ID: <bdp39a$doi$02$1@news.t-online.com>

I have a question about metaclasses:

How would be the best way to "merge" different metaclasses?
Or, more precisely, what is the best way to merge metaclass functionality?

The idea is basicly the following:
One has several (metaclass) modules that implements an interesting feature.
Lets say, I have a metaclass L, that adds logging capabilities to all method
calls and another one, called P, that creates properties on the fly.

One possibility would be of course to write a new metaclass LP that merges
the previous two.

As far, as I can see (and I might be wrong here) the only intersting place
in a metaclass is its __new__ method where the classdict of the soon to be
created class can be manipulated.

One idea I had, was to wrap the interesting part (the manipulation of
classdict) in a function and create the actual metaclass on the fly (see
example).

Or would it be better, to create some elaborate inheritance scheme with
metaclasses (they are classes after all) ?

Thanks for your input

Stephan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

def meta1(classname,bases,classdict):
    classdict['__meta1__'] = 'meta1'

    return classdict

def meta2(classname,bases,classdict):
    classdict['__meta2__'] = 'meta2'

    return classdict

def buildmeta(*metalist):
    metalist = list(metalist)
    class metameta(type):
        def __new__(cls,classname,bases,classdict):
            metalist.reverse()
            for func in metalist:
                classdict = func(classname,bases,classdict)
            return type.__new__(cls,classname,bases,classdict)

    return metameta

class c1(object):
    __metaclass__ = buildmeta(meta1,meta2)

class c2(object):
    __metaclass__ = buildmeta(meta2)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    print [x for x,y in c1.__dict__.items() if x.startswith('__meta')]
    print [x for x,y in c2.__dict__.items() if x.startswith('__meta')]




From tatebll at aol.com  Sun Jun 22 07:24:23 2003
From: tatebll at aol.com (Bill Tate)
Date: 22 Jun 2003 04:24:23 -0700
Subject: newbie: good reasons for learning Python?
References: <3ef37a28$0$306$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <cb4ba455.0306220324.77d44605@posting.google.com>

"somaBoyMX" <nosuch at fakemail.net> wrote in message news:<3ef37a28$0$306$ba620e4c at reader0.news.skynet.be>...
> Hiya,
> 
> 
>.... before I decide to dedicate my precious free time to this...
em - I think you just answered your own question.



From icarroll at pobox.com  Mon Jun 16 16:53:57 2003
From: icarroll at pobox.com (W Isaac Carroll)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:53:57 -0700
Subject: Question about Python-Grammar
References: <peerev0nik342gr7i1ecfjudm8oqobmf05@4ax.com> <6qk7bmnq7e.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <3EEE2E65.7080603@pobox.com>

Bernhard Herzog wrote:
> Roman Meisl <roman at syxx.de> writes:
>>which makes following import-statement possible:
>>import NAME NAME NAME
>>
>>What's the sense of this statement? Or is this an error in the
>>grammar?
>>
>>(Even the compiler (2.2.2) claims a syntax error when parsing 
>>"import mod1 mod2 mod3" )
> 
> But not for "import mod1 as mod2". 
> 
> The "as" in there is not a keyword and thus can't be in the Grammar
> explicitly AFAIK so constraining "import NAME NAME NAME" to cases where
> the second NAME is "as" is done by the compiler.

The basic idea here is that "as" ought to be a keyword in Python, but 
for historical reasons isn't. My understanding is that making it a 
keyword has been looked into and it would be more trouble than it's worth.

TTFN





From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jun 17 13:35:33 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:35:33 +0200
Subject: user authentication interface in python
In-Reply-To: <3cf72d52.0306170910.dc711fb@posting.google.com>
References: <3cf72d52.0306130501.6acb9984@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1055513184.30725.python-list@python.org>
	<3cf72d52.0306170910.dc711fb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EEF5165.4060308@ghaering.de>

scn wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:
>>scn wrote:
>>
>>>hello.  does anyone have a high-level example of how to implement
>>>'secure' user authentication interface for web users in python.
>>>
>>>i am in the process of designing a simple web application that
>>>requires user authentication and i remembered that php typically held
>>>system authentication information in a separate file and included this
>>>file in the main interface script.
>>
>>What's the advantage of this approach? [...]
>>Sure, you can
>>
>>a) import a module from elsewhere [...]
> 
> thanks for responding. what i wanted to achieve was keeping the
> database access information in a separate file, similar to the
> convention i've seen used in php.  the db connection, username and
> password information was typically stored in an 'configure.inc' file
> and included in the main script using the 'include' statement. 

Ah! Now I get it. Well, I don't know PHP but it seems it always 
interprets a *single* file. So to access any PHP code from outside this 
file, you include it. But it's still a single file that's processed by 
the PHP interpreter, it's just that another file was inserted at a 
placeholder position.

Well, Python is different :)

Python has the concept of 'modules', which are independent of each 
other. To access functions, classes or data from a different module, you 
  'import' the module.

Here's a simple example:

--- 8< ----- file hello.py ----
#!/usr/bin/env python
# A very simple CGI script in Python
import motd

# HTTP headers:
print "Content-type: text/plain"
print
print "The message of the day is:"
print motd.get_motd()
--- >8 -------------------------

--- 8< ----- file motd.py -----
# The motd (Message Of The Day) module

# It contains one function:
def get_motd():
     return "Just for testing ..."
--- >8 -------------------------

You see: two files - two Python modules. Module hello.py, the main 
module, which will also be the script that's started from the web 
server, imports the motd module and calls the function get_motd() with it.

I hope this makes the Python way clearer.

> [...]

-- Gerhard




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  5 20:50:09 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 18:50:09 -0600
Subject: Distutils question
References: <bbol2n$lt9$1@naig.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <bboog1$3sp$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Richard Muller wrote:

> I'm currently putting some python routines together in the form of a
> module using Distutils, and had a question I couldn't answer.
> 
> It seems that Distutils is set up so that python routines are either
> packages or scripts. I use many of my programs as both -- I want them to
> be in a place where I can import routines from them, but I also use them
> as interactive scripts.
> 
> Is there a simple way to do this within the framework of distutils? Up
> until now, I've just had may of these routines in a directory that is
> both in my PYTHONPATH and in my PATH.

standard solution: write very thin wrapper scripts (often one-liners) which call
your modules as scripts.  The side advantage is that the modules get
byte-compiled, so startup time is a bit reduced.

best,

f



From Anish.Mehta at enst-bretagne.fr  Tue Jun  3 12:47:29 2003
From: Anish.Mehta at enst-bretagne.fr (Mehta, Anish)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 18:47:29 +0200
Subject: Variable Modifications in a class
Message-ID: <3EDCD121.50809@antares.enst-bretagne.fr>

Hello!

I am having a problem in tackling the variables in the class.

class AB:
   def __init__(self):
       self.a = None
       self.b = None

def func(ab):
   b = ab()
   c = ab()

   b.a = 5
   b.b = 10

   c = b

   c.a = 30
   c.b = 40

   print b.a, b.b
   print c.a, c.b
   t = func(AB)


Output is
30 40
30 40

I want the output to be
5 10
30 40

I mean every instance should modify its own set of variables not the 
variables of the other instances of the class. The output of the set of 
variables of b should not be affected by modifying those variables by 
another instance of the same class.

Waiting for suggestions.

Thanks in advnace.

Regards,

Anish





From roy at panix.com  Fri Jun 27 12:50:59 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:50:59 -0400
Subject: How to memoize functions?
References: <mailman.1056726010.29497.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-95CD9F.12505927062003@reader1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1056726010.29497.python-list at python.org>,
 sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:

> Or, use a shelf instead of a dictionary.

What's a shelf?



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Jun 19 12:47:10 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:47:10 GMT
Subject: Idle font to small (RedHat)
References: <bcso25$f8rp$1@as201.hinet.hr>
Message-ID: <iOlIa.209387$g92.4304735@news2.tin.it>

Haris Bogdanovic wrote:

> How can I enlarge font in Idle ?
> 
> Thanks
> Haris

Locate the Tools/idle directory where it resides; you'll see several
files named config.txt, config-unix.txt, etc.  Check config-unix.txt:

[EditorWindow]
font-name= courier
font-size= 10
print-command=lpr %s

and you'll easily understand how to edit it in order to make idle
use another font and/or size.  (Note: this is about the current
idle -- I'm not sure, offhand, if "idlefork", that's going to be
the idle version with the coming Python 2.3, uses the same approach).


Alex




From abli at freemail.hu  Thu Jun 12 10:43:48 2003
From: abli at freemail.hu (Abel Daniel)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:43:48 +0200
Subject: [Tutor] Canvas rectangle filling
In-Reply-To: <20030612132002.12083.qmail@webmail27.rediffmail.com>
References: <20030612132002.12083.qmail@webmail27.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <20030612144348.GA4358@hooloovoo>

Suresh  Kumar wrote:
> Hi,
> Iam using python/tkinter/pmw in windows.
> Most of graphics languages provides facility to fill the rectangcle with
> horizantal/vertical lines. I know that in tkinter we can fill the canvas
> rectangle's interior using "stipple". But my customer is expecting the
> rectangles to be filled with  diagnal/vertical/horizantal lines. Is
> there any direct way is available in tkinter/Pmw to fill the rectangle with
> lines?
> or i have to use "create_line" command explicitly?
Well, creating the lines invidually is an option, but i think it's a
rather poor one. You would have to figure out the endpoints of each
line, which might work for rectangles, but will get almost impossible
for circles, or arcs.
(Not to mention that you would be creating a lot of lines, which i guess
would impact performance.)

I think the best idea would be to use stipple with custom bitmaps. For
example the following xbm file will create diagonal lines:
----8<----
/* Created with The GIMP */
#define lines_width 16
#define lines_height 16
static unsigned char lines_bits[] = {
   0x11, 0x11, 0x22, 0x22, 0x44, 0x44, 0x88, 0x88, 0x11, 0x11, 0x22, 0x22,
   0x44, 0x44, 0x88, 0x88, 0x11, 0x11, 0x22, 0x22, 0x44, 0x44, 0x88, 0x88,
   0x11, 0x11, 0x22, 0x22, 0x44, 0x44, 0x88, 0x88 };
----8<-----
Copy-paste this into a file, call it 'lines.xbm', and use it like:
canvas.create_rectangle(100,100,150,150, stipple='@lines.xbm', fill='black')

There might be two problems:
1) path to the xbm files. If you put your xbm files somewhere else than
the current directory, I think you will have to use the full path, like:
... stipple='@/path/to/file.xbm' ...
Which might complicate the matters as you have to keep track of where
your xbm files are, and use the appropriate path.

2) creating the xbm files themselves. If you only need some options like
'diagonal lines, close the each other' or 'vertical lines, far apart'
you could create some xbm files, and only provide those. (Essentially
hardcoding thos patterns.) If you need more flexibility, like 'lines at
60 degrees angle, 2 pixels wide and 7 pixels apart' you will have to
generate xbm files on the fly. A way of pipeing the xbm data would come
handy in this case, but I don't know if such exists. You might have to
save the generated xbm data to be able to pass the filename to tkinter.
I think generating the xbm files on the fly will be pretty easy, as they
are simply black&white bitmaps.

According to
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/x2861-options.htm
which is describing the options of arc object:
"As of Tk 8.0p2, the stipple option is ignored on the Windows platform.
To draw stippled pieslices or chords, you have to create corresponding
polygons."

But I think that doesn't affect other objects. (I didn't test on Windows)

Abel Daniel




From madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 26 15:25:55 2003
From: madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com (-)
Date: 26 Jun 2003 12:25:55 -0700
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com> <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com> <bdb22c$psllg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EF933AA.C16ADFE5@alcyone.com> <bdcl1d$v43$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <fef0a228.0306261125.62b83713@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<bdcl1d$v43$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> The CR is what you get when you hit the Enter key, so Apple did the most direct thing
> in using that key code as an EOL symbol. Perhaps they thought that was "cleaner" and
> that they would lead the way to a cleaner standard way of doing things when they
> achieved market dominance ;-)
> 

I think the terminology is not taken from typewriters, but from some
old printers where you needed both characters to start a new line.

CR moved the print head to the beginning of the line and LF moved the
paper one line. It can't be compared with a typewriter, where the
[Enter] key did both operations. The Microsoft (other operating
systems also had similar EOF) way is actually the "correct" way, since
the "cursor" needs to move down one line and start at the beginning.
The Unix way is of cource more elegant, because you have a digital
computer and not some mechanical device. It doesn't matter if it's CR
or LF, because both characters only does half of the operation. Apple
should have chosen LF to preserve compatibillity.



From theller at python.net  Thu Jun 26 16:02:44 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:02:44 +0200
Subject: limit module import to only certain symbols?
References: <HlHKa.36856$b67.4568465@read2.cgocable.net>
Message-ID: <8yror4ij.fsf@python.net>

"Kevin Howe" <khowe at perfnet.ca> writes:

> Say I have the following module named "mymodule"
>
> import string
> var1 = 'a'
> var2 = 'b'
>
> And I want to import its symbols into another script:
>
> from mymodule import *
>
> This will import 3 symbols (string, var1, var2)
>
> Is it possible to limit it so that import * will only import specified
> items? So that:
>
> from mymodule import *
>
> Would import only var1 and var2?

You have to write

__all__ = ["var1", "var2"]

in your mymodule.

Thomas



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun 18 16:23:01 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:23:01 -0500
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
In-Reply-To: <yfsof0v880w.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com>
        <mailman.1055919632.16586.python-list@python.org>
        <rfVHa.105923$pR3.2320136@news1.tin.it>
        <yfs65n39z72.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
        <just-0D60BB.18081218062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
        <yfsof0v880w.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <16112.51749.101424.648698@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Alexander> Maybe I'm a bit blinkered, but right now I can't see how

    Alexander>     dict(foo=1, bar='sean')

    Alexander> is so much better/more convinient than

    Alexander>     {'foo':1, bar:'sean'}

    Alexander> that it justifies forcing people to learn a new redundant and
    Alexander> less general dictionary creation syntax that at least hinders
    Alexander> customizing dictionary instantiation like in

I don't think it would normally be used that way.  Instead, consider you
have a preexisting dictionary and want a copy:

    >>> d1 = {'foo':1, 'bar':'sean'}
    >>> d2 = dict(**d1)
    >>> d2 == d1
    True

That's a one-liner where the equivalent

    d2 = {}
    d2.update(d1)

is a two-liner and likely slower.

Skip




From belred1 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 23 02:07:47 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:07:47 GMT
Subject: xrange
References: <rwkJa.1019010$OV.1115623@rwcrnsc54> <JbrJa.7647$Kg7.4897@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <YpsJa.107668$YZ2.275855@rwcrnsc53> <KKsJa.107828$YZ2.275985@rwcrnsc53> <PmwJa.6109$N%6.5701@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <TOwJa.1024864$OV.1122450@rwcrnsc54>

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote in message
news:PmwJa.6109$N%6.5701 at nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> "Bryan" <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:KKsJa.107828$YZ2.275985 at rwcrnsc53...
> > oh no...
> >
> > >>> for i in enumerate(['a', 'b', 'c']): print i
> > ...
> > (0, 'a')
> > (1, 'b')
> > (2, 'c')
> > >>> for i in zip(count(), ['a', 'b', 'c']): print i
> > ...
> > (0, 'a')
> > (1, 'b')
> > (2, 'c')
> > >>> for i in izip(count(), ['a', 'b', 'c']): print i
> > ...
> > (0, 'a')
> > (1, 'b')
> > (2, 'c')
>
>
>
> Oh please!  That's just silly.
>
> >>> print 1
> 1
> >>> print range(2)[1]
> 1
> >>> print 22-21
> 1
> >>> print str("1")
> 1
>
> Of course, general purpose constructs can be made to emulate one
> another (for instance, most looping constructs reduce to "if" and "goto").
>

well, i think i was only half taunting, but i don't think it's silly at
all... i do think that a newbie trying to figure out what to do is going to
have a somewhat tougher time.   in my three examples, there are only subtle
differences.  i myself would probably use the enumerate one, but after
reading the itertools documentation, i found the izip one first.  after i
saw enumerate, it wasn't immediately obvious to me what others would do.
izip has the look and feel of the classic zip.  i knew others would easily
be able to read it.  enumerate hides the the count() appears simpilar, but
because of hiding the count(), it isn't as obvious.  i only brought this up
because in my own personal python experience, i have never encounted this
feeling of "not knowing how others would do it".  i wasn't trying to zen-ize
this to death.  maybe the documentation should help guide the user about the
issues of backwards compatibily, when to use the classic zip/map etc, and
when to use the new ones,  and when to blend the two styles as i did with
the zip example.  also, i think the itertools documentation should have a
reference to enumerate even though it's a builtin,  and visa-vera.


bryan






From rudy.schockaert at pandora.be  Sun Jun  1 09:01:24 2003
From: rudy.schockaert at pandora.be (Rudy Schockaert)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 13:01:24 GMT
Subject: Some pythonic advice needed
Message-ID: <EOmCa.31502$1u5.2321@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>

Hi,

I've made a wxPython app for my daughter to help her train Latin vocabulary.
I used the PriorityQueue recipe from the Python cookbook
(http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/68435)
to store the questions. Each question is a dictionary containing the
latin word, the dutch word and some other data like the current score
for that word.
Each time she answers a question she can gain a maximum of 3 points. For
each wrong answer the score goes down. This way the words she trains get
ordered by best known at the end.
This works perfect except for one thing. For some words there is more
than one translation possible. If she answers one that is not expected
the score goes down, which it shouldn't.
Therefor I would need the ability to lookup in the list of questions if
she answered corectly.
What would be the most Pythonic way to handle this problem. I was
thinking of putting everything in a relational database but I haven't
any experience in that domain.

Thanks in advance,

Rudy




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Jun  5 08:53:13 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:53:13 +0200
Subject: Characters in Python
In-Reply-To: <aaf09156.0306050423.21b45f6@posting.google.com>
References: <aaf09156.0306050423.21b45f6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030605125313.GA3865@nl.linux.org>

Jan Sundstr?m schreef op donderdag  5 juni om 14:26:57 +0000:
>    >>> str = '???'
>    UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

I'm not sure whether I am correct, but does "str = u'???'" work?

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
180. If a father give a present to his daughter -- either marriageable
or a prostitute (unmarriageable) -- and then die, then she is to receive a
portion as a child from the paternal estate, and enjoy its usufruct so
long as she lives. Her estate belongs to her brothers.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From owasmuth at web.de  Wed Jun  4 10:08:39 2003
From: owasmuth at web.de (Olaf Wasmuth)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 14:08:39 GMT
Subject: Calling function in shared lib
Message-ID: <bbkuh7$2an$1@esaoa1.esoc.esa.de>

I am trying to write python code that is able to invoke
a function that was compiled into a shared library
(actually, FORTRAN routines).  I did succeed for a specific
routine in a specific library, but now I want to do this
in a more flexible way.

That is, given the library path and the "signature" of the
routine (e.g. from a configuration file) at run time, I
would like to call this function from within Python. My
target platform is Unix (Solaris), so I'm thinking of
using the GNU libltdl to access the library and do the
call. But how can I feed the parameters into it ? Did
anybody do this already, or do you have some pointers
for me ?

Regards,

Olaf.



From peterm at ccs.neu.edu  Sun Jun 29 16:05:14 2003
From: peterm at ccs.neu.edu (Peter Markowsky)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 16:05:14 -0400
Subject: Memory Address' of Python Objects
In-Reply-To: <m2isqo7l55.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <20030626131817.GA4097@nl.linux.org> <m2el1gvs9o.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <20030628133906.GA3705@nl.linux.org> <m2isqo7l55.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <20030629200514.GA1095@darkside.ccs.neu.edu>

Hi all,

I've been searching through the Python Essential Reference, and
python.org but I can't seem to find a way to get the memory address
for an object in python. Please help. How do you get the address of an
object in memory?

Sincerely, 

Pete


-- 
It sure is fun to sit around at night, look up at the stars, and think
about billion dollar computers owned by the government that can crack
1024-bit RSA keys in 2 minutes flat.  Makes you feel so small...




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Mon Jun 16 19:51:50 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:51:50 GMT
Subject: class variable declarations...
References: <bckftl$k0pe7$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de> <3EEDD509.890691F5@engcorp.com> <bckof6$kaji2$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de> <3EEDE9AC.15699B8A@engcorp.com> <bckqrj$k968f$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbesm0l.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 16 Jun 2003 16:22:11 GMT, Lee John Moore wrote:
> Pardon the snipping.  I'm a bit worried about leaving too much
> in for the sake of mailing list bandwidth. :)

You've done exactly right: only quote the part of the message that
you are responding to.

-- 
 \           "If you're a cowboy and you're dragging a guy behind your |
  `\      horse, I bet it would really make you mad if you looked back |
_o__)             and the guy was reading a magazine."  -- Jack Handey |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From philh at cabalamat.org  Wed Jun  4 08:40:33 2003
From: philh at cabalamat.org (phil hunt)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:40:33 +0100
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbdrq61.o40.philh@cabalamat.uklinux.net>

On 4 Jun 2003 02:59:01 -0700, Pupppy Wizzard <PupppyWizzard at glay.org> wrote:
>Hi. I am an old school programmer looking to modernize my skill set. I
>want to focus on one new language. Should I choose:
>
>VB
>VB.net
>C#
>C++
>Python
>Smalltalk
>J#
>JScript.net
>or Java?

INTERCAL!!!!!

-- 
Phil
The announcement by SCO last week that it intends to sue everyone 
who has ever uttered the word "Linux" is the latest in a series of 
desperate measures by SCO to be noticed. -- Humorix.org 




From hellen at claggetts.net  Sat Jun  7 15:14:36 2003
From: hellen at claggetts.net (Jonathan Claggett)
Date: 7 Jun 2003 12:14:36 -0700
Subject: Thoughts on cooperative methods
Message-ID: <dd5454fb.0306071114.40b8ef4c@posting.google.com>

I've recently played around with using cooperative methods in python
via the new super function and I wanted to bounce some of my thoughts
off the python community as a sanity check. So with no particular
rhyme and reason:

1) When you've got cooperative methods that are 'public' (i.e., called
from outside of the class), it is generally a good idea to refactor
your method into two new methods: a private cooperative method and a
public non-cooperative method. This is because the parameters of
cooperative methods are more constrained than normal method (since
they are cooperating). For example:

class A(object):
    def __init__(self, arg1):
        print arg1

class B(A):
    def __init__(self, arg1, arg2):
        super(B, self).__init__(arg1):
        print arg2

is refactored into:

class A(object):
    def __init__(self, arg1):
        self.c_init(arg1=arg1)
    def c_init(**dic):
        print dic['arg1']

class B(A):
    def __init__(self, arg1, arg2):
        self.c_init(arg1=arg1, arg2=arg2)
    def c_init(self, **dic):
        super(B, self).c_init(**dic)
        print dic['arg2']

2) The existing super() is limited in that you have to explicitly call
it at every level or the chain of cooperation stops. In the code
above, the method A.c_init can't call super() since there is no c_init
method explicitly defined above it. This limitation means that it is
tricky to use cooperative methods with mixins or other classes. for
example:

class Mixin(object):
    def __init__(self **dic):
        self.c_init(**dic)
    def c_init(self, **dic):
        print dic
        super(Mixin, self).c_init(**dic)

class C(Mixin, B): pass # works
class C(B, Mixin): pass # breaks, will never call Mixin.c_init
m = Mixin(arg1=1, arg2=2) # breaks, super() raises an error

3) The existing super() feels awkward to use with all of its
parameters and I'm hoping to see a proper super keyword in a future
release of python. It just seems like a hack at this point (not that
I'm morally opposed to hacks or anything ;-).

4) Finally, as an experiment, I've developed an entirely different
approach to cooperative methods which removes the chaining limitation
above and has a slightly less awkward syntax. This approach uses
generators and yes, this is a hack and no, I'm not suggesting its use
for production work. However, I do think it is a good template for how
the super keyword might work. For example the above code becomes:

class A(object):
    def __init__(self, arg1):
        cooperate(self.c_init, arg1=arg1)
    def c_init(self, **dic):
        print dic['arg1']

class B(A):
    def __init__(self, arg1, arg2):
        cooperate(self.c_init, arg1=arg1, arg2=arg2)
    def c_init(self, **dic):
        yield self
        print dic['arg2']

class Mixin(object):
    def __init__(self, **dic):
        cooperate(self.c_init, **dic)
    def c_init(self, **dic):
        print dic

class C(B, Mixin): pass

c = C(arg1=1, arg2=2)

where cooperate() is defined as:

from __future__ import generators
import types

def cooperate(method, *args, **kw):
    assert type(method) is types.MethodType

    attr_dict = dict()
    gen_list = list()

    for cls in method.im_class.__mro__:
        attr = getattr(cls, method.im_func.func_name, None)
        if attr is not None and hash(attr) not in attr_dict:
            attr_dict[hash(attr)] = None
            gen = attr(method.im_self, *args, **kw)
            if type(gen) is types.GeneratorType:
                try: gen.next()
                except StopIteration: pass
                else: gen_list.insert(0, gen)

    for gen in gen_list:
        try: gen.next()
        except StopIteration: pass

Sorry for the long winded post but I wanted to know what the python
folk thought about these issues.

Thanks,
Jonathan



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jun  6 16:04:00 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:04:00 -0700
Subject: list.index
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030606154116.009ed760@pop3.zonnet.nl> <mailman.1054908193.15553.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE0F3B0.95944A27@alcyone.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> the usual way to do this is:
> 
>     if self.pointmarker in self.selected_points:
>         colour = DEFAULT_SELECTED_POINT_COLOUR
> 
> you can also use "find", which does the same thing as "index" if
> successful, but returns -1 if the item is not found.
> 
>     if self.selected_points.find(self.pointmarker) >= 0:
>         colour = DEFAULT_SELECTED_POINT_COLOUR

Isn't that only for strings?

>>> help([].find)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'list' object has no attribute 'find'

In which case, the use of the `in' operator is more appropriate.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Forgiveness is another word for letting go.
\__/  Matthew Fox



From shalabhraizada at hotmail.com  Thu Jun  5 04:10:34 2003
From: shalabhraizada at hotmail.com (Shalabh Raizada)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 01:10:34 -0700
Subject: multimedia package
Message-ID: <6fbb94e.0306050010.265f2597@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

We are looking for an open source and free multimedia package for
using as an authoring tool. The package should handle animations,
video, audio, 3D, 2D graphics, text and audio.

Thanks.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Jun  7 13:36:55 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 07 Jun 2003 19:36:55 +0200
Subject: id(a) == id(b) and a is not b --> bug?
References: <mailman.1054855286.16163.python-list@python.org> <3EDFDDBC.673E0F25@alcyone.com> <mailman.1054928666.1698.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3d6hphjrc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> writes:

> > >>> c = C()
> > >>> c.m is c.m
> > 0
> > >>> id(c.m) == id(c.m)
> > 1
> > 
[...]
> BTW, is there any way I could have found out about this myself, expect
> reading the source (which I can't because of lack of knowledge)?

Most certainly. You could have done

a,b = c.m,c.m
print id(a)
print id(b)

to find out that they are different objects. You could then have done

print id(c.m)
print id(c.m)

to find out that object ids get recycled quickly.

I strongly encourage you to investigate the nature of c.m in more
detail. Find out what the name of the type is, and find out what
fields it has. You might be able to infer for yourself why creating
new objects every time is needed to implement the semantics of
methods.

HTH,
Martin



From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 10 23:25:13 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:25:13 +1200
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055272699.15652.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1055217257.2562.python-list@python.org> <yfsk7buhwas.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <livbevceovhqolcbvnuj6fi3tbv7qnb1ps@4ax.com> <mailman.1055272699.15652.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc664i$fkgd4$3@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:
> But just to throw options out, 'make' is another short word that works
> in the context, IMO.
 >
>     def foo(x,y) make staticmethod:
>         ...do stuff...

But that reads like mangled English. I'd prefer something
that either sounds like good English, or doesn't look
like English at all.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From max-resume at alcyone.com  Thu Jun 19 03:12:55 2003
From: max-resume at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 00:12:55 -0700
Subject: Feature Structures in Python (Part I)
References: <20030619053141.6BF4835EC4@www.fastmail.fm> <mailman.1056002504.24686.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EF16277.FE8042B4@alcyone.com>

Andrew Bennetts wrote:

> What's a "feature structure"?

I wondered the same thing.  Google provided the answer.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The great artist is the simplifier.
\__/  Henri Amiel



From erno-news at erno.iki.fi  Tue Jun 10 20:26:40 2003
From: erno-news at erno.iki.fi (Erno Kuusela)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 03:26:40 +0300
Subject: Handling kill signals
References: <mailman.1055278547.15020.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kun0gpjw73.fsf@lasipalatsi.fi>

In article <mailman.1055278547.15020.python-list at python.org>, Gary
Robinson <grobinson at transpose.com> writes:

| For a daemon I'm writing, it would be very good if I could handle a kill
| signal sent out by the operating system during shutdown.

you should catch the TERM signal, not KILL.

  -- erno



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Tue Jun 17 21:10:02 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:10:02 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com>
 <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <3064b51d.0306170436.2b31f9e@posting.google.com>
 <Xns939D905D1B2A3duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <usmq86vit.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> writes:

> beliavsky at aol.com wrote in 
> news:3064b51d.0306170436.2b31f9e at posting.google.com:
>
>> subroutine solve_lsq_svd_rmse(aa,bb,xx,rmse,ierr)
>> ! solve a set of least-squares linear equations and compute the rmse
>> real     , intent(in)   :: aa(:,:) ! matrix of independent variables
>> real     , intent(in)   :: bb(:)   ! vector of dependent variable
>> real     , intent(out)  :: xx(:)   ! solution of least-squares problem
>> real     , intent(out)  :: rmse    ! rmse of regression
>> integer  , intent(out)  :: ierr    ! error flag
>> 
>> In Python, to ensure that aa is a 2-D array and that bb and xx are 1-D
>> arrays, you need to write some checking code, which will not be as
>> clear as the above declarations IMO. Even if you do this, the errors
>> will be caught at run time, not compile time.
>> 
>> (Regardless of the language, you need to check that the # of rows in
>> aa equals the # of elements in bb. This usually must be done at run
>> time.)
>
> You don't need to check that xx is a 1-D array since it is a result, so 
> your function just generates a 1-D array and returns it. Likewise you don't 
> need to check the type of rmse, and I really hope that in Python ierr would 
> disappear entirely in favour of an exception.
>
> So you are down to the question of whether aa is a 2-D array, and whether 
> bb is a 1-D array of the correct size. Rather than checking the type of aa, 
> you could just try using it as a 2-D array. You will be pretty hard pushed 
> to accidentally pass in something of the wrong type that produces a result 
> rather than an exception.
>
> I think you also need to distinguish not just between compile time and 
> runtime, but between compile time, test time and runtime. Compile and test 
> times happen (I hope) every few minutes while you are developing the 
> program. If you are passing an incompatible type into a function, this 
> should be caught at test time, i.e. within about 2 minutes maximum of you 
> writing the call to the function.

Hi Duncan,

Well, first of all, the kinds of things you need to test in numerical
linear algebra often take a lot longer than 2 minutes.  Systems meant
to solve large problems often need large tests in order to exercise
all the emergent behaviors.

Regardless, I fear you have conveniently missed the point here.  What
prefixed the text you quoted was:

> I find that static typing makes a big difference for two things:
> 
>   1. Readability.  It really helps to have names introduced with a
>      type or a type constraint which expresses what kind of thing they
>      are.  This is especially true when I am coming back to code after
>      a long time or reading someone else's work.  Attaching that
>      information to the name directly is odious, though, and leads to
>      abominations like hungarian notation.

This was not about code correctness but readability/maintainability.
Yes, you can do the same kind of thing with comments, but:

    a. Comments go out-of-date, while static checks don't.

    b. Documenting generic type constraints is very difficult to do
       concisely in English, so people generally don't write them.  Go
       through any module from a large body of Python code and tell
       me what percentage of functions have rigorous comments
       describing their type requirements.

I have this experience all the time.  Just today I was trying to fix
some problems with ReStructuredText and PDF writing via ReportLab.  I
am not deeply familiar with either codebase.  I was having problems
with a function and had a devil of a time trying to figure out what
kinds of things were passed as its parameter named 'node'.  I added
some printing code (you shouldn't have to modify 3rd party source just
to analyze it) but polymorphism defeated that - it was all kinds of
types.  Eventually I had to guess.

I'm not saying that Python isn't a wonderful language -- it is.  It's
great to have the flexibility of fully dynamic typing available.  All
the same, I'm not going to pretend that static typing doesn't have
real advantages.  I seriously believe that it's better most of the
time, because it helps catch mistakes earlier, makes even simple code
easier to maintain, and makes complex code easier to write.  I would
trade some convenience for these other strengths.  Although it's very
popular around here to say that research has shown static typing
doesn't help, I've never seen that research, and my personal
experience contradicts the claim anyway.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com  Mon Jun 30 08:11:51 2003
From: paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com (Paolo Invernizzi)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:11:51 +0200
Subject: filedescriptor out of range in select()
In-Reply-To: <yMYKa.333826$3n5.313686@news2.central.cox.net>
References: <bde89s$ef4$1@main.gmane.org> <mailman.1056616363.2840.python-list@python.org> <3EFABC5E.329613C6@alcyone.com> <bdelmg$cb7$1@main.gmane.org> <mailman.1056716925.10216.python-list@python.org> <yMYKa.333826$3n5.313686@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <bdp9db$o2b$1@main.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:

> I suspect that the "too many open files" is simply a symptom of a deeper
> problem, in that your sockets aren't being correctly closed due to a
> programming error. The asyncore framework will happily continue to run even
> if errors occur in the event-handling routines, cneatly demonstrating the
> dangers of an unlimited "try:/except:".
> 
> There's a clear implication here that a BayesProxy instance isn't running
> its __init__() method, because if it *were* running it the isClosed
> attribute would be defined.

I'll check this today...

> Are you perchance subclassing Bayesproxy and overriding its __init__()
> rather than extending it?


Nono, I'm using the 'plain' pop3proxy.py of spambayes... I'm not 
extending the framework...






From scott_list at mischko.com  Wed Jun 18 17:36:21 2003
From: scott_list at mischko.com (Scott Chapman)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:36:21 -0700
Subject: Postgresql: plpython may be removed
Message-ID: <200306181436.21252.scott_list@mischko.com>

This thread is going on the Postgresql email list.  It appears that support 
for Python as a Postgresql scripting language will not last unless some 
knowlegable folks can assist.

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: Re: [GENERAL] plpython? (Was: Re: Damn triggers and NEW)
Date: Wednesday 18 June 2003 07:32
From: Tom Lane <tgl at sss.pgh.pa.us>
To: "Jay O'Connor" <joconnor at cybermesa.com>
Cc: pgsql-general at postgresql.org

"Jay O'Connor" <joconnor at cybermesa.com> writes:
> At 06:42 AM 06/18/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>> We could change plpython to an untrusted language
>> if someone cares enough to develop a patch to remove the use of
>> rexec.  Otherwise I fear we'll have to pull it.
>
> When you say "have to pull it" does that mean dropping plpython completely?

Yes.  I can't see that we have any other alternative.  The existing
plpython won't work at all with newer Python installations, and while
it'd still work with older ones, it has exactly the same security holes
that prompted the Python folk to pull rexec.  That means it's foolish
to pretend that it can still be considered a trusted language.  So
I feel we cannot just leave it sit there.  Either somebody does the
legwork to convert it into an untrusted language that doesn't use rexec,
or it goes.  And I don't think any of the core team has the time to do
that legwork.  If there's no plpython user with the commitment to fix
it, it's history :-(.  Any volunteers out there?

			regards, tom lane
-------------------------------------------------------





From tomas at fancy.org  Sat Jun 21 14:32:33 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:32:33 -0700
Subject: unittest and automatically firing off tests
References: <e9o7fvo04c3ocnp352vqbmmhrku30i61h4@4ax.com> <873ci3lk2o.fsf@pobox.com> <6qvfuz773j.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <b499fvk0f9874bpqnfrhtu5q9ljpl7c3ee@4ax.com>

Bernhard Herzog wrote:

> I think it's done that way to set the return code of the python process
> so that in a shell you could use it to determine whether the tests were
> executed successfully.

Oh- I hadn't though about that.  Makes sense.

>     files = os.listdir(os.curdir)
>     names = []
>     for file in files:
>         if file[:4] == "test" and file[-3:] == ".py":
>             names.append(file[:-3])
> 
>     suite = unittest.defaultTestLoader.loadTestsFromNames(names)
>     runner = unittest.TextTestRunner(verbosity = 2)
>     result = runner.run(suite)
> 
>     sys.exit(not result.wasSuccessful())

Super, will extract what I can from this.  Thanks.

-tom!



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun  4 17:22:55 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:22:55 +0200
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
In-Reply-To: <lFm42JAx3h3+EwNz@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <lFm42JAx3h3+EwNz@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20030604212255.GA18840@nl.linux.org>

Robin Becker schreef op woensdag  4 juni om 19:04:17 +0000:
> why not
>         classdef foo(cls):
> 
>         staticdef bar():
> 
> or just
> 
>         classmethod foo(cls):
> 
>         staticmethod bar():

That would introduce a new keywoard, and it is a noble goal to have
at least keywords as possible (why are print, exec, import keywords...?)

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
50. If he give a cultivated corn-field or a cultivated sesame-field,
the corn or sesame in the field shall belong to the owner of the field,
and he shall return the money to the merchant as rent.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From yaipa at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 26 02:46:52 2003
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 23:46:52 -0700
Subject: Test-Driven Dev. (Kent Beck) Python Chapter Question
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0306252246.16fa828@posting.google.com>

In Chapter 20. Cleaning Up After

When adding "tearDown()" to "TestCase" in xUnit, the TestCase method run()
suddenly takes on a new argument named "result."  In the next line result 
is used as "result.testStarted()."  Oddly, when TestCase.run() is called by
"TestCaseTest" it is called without an argument, so of course Python complains.
If I drop "result" from the argument list and strike the line
"result.testStarted()" everything works fine. I've looked and
there seems to be no code download page or errata available.

Anyone had similar problems with this chapter or am I reading over
something here?

Thanks,

   --Alan Haffner



From artyprog at wanadoo.fr  Tue Jun 10 12:40:16 2003
From: artyprog at wanadoo.fr (Salvatore)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:40:16 +0200
Subject: snakedb -MySQL
Message-ID: <bc51mj$o81$1@news-reader13.wanadoo.fr>

Hello,

Does anybody knows how to make
enhanced criteria like sorting with snakedb
without using sql request ?


Thanks

Regards

Salvatore




From suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com  Wed Jun 25 13:14:08 2003
From: suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com (Suresh  Kumar)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 17:14:08 -0000
Subject: Needs urgent solution................
Message-ID: <20030625171408.31501.qmail@webmail36.rediffmail.com>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20030625/ab54a33b/attachment.ksh>

From krier115 at student.liu.se  Mon Jun 16 16:39:45 2003
From: krier115 at student.liu.se (Kristoffer Erlandsson)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:39:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Getting the CPU usage in a generic way across OSes
Message-ID: <slrnbesaoj.5ve.krier115@n14.ryd.student.liu.se>

Hello,

I am writing an application that, among other things, should monitor the
CPU usage. However, this seems impossible to do in a platform
independant way. I have browsed the source from some C-programs which do
this and they all seem to depend on very different ways depending on
what OS the program is running on. Many of the ways use system specific
system calls (which I can't find Python functions for). The only
solution I have come up with so far is to extend python with some C-code
which get the CPU usage for me. But this is of course more tedious than
I'd like it to be. So I'm wondering if a module implementing this
allready exists? I've had a date with google for this one, but no luck.
If it doesn't exist, do anyone have a better idea than to write/rip the
C-code implementing this for different OS:es? I'm only interested in
doing it for *nix OS:es.

I'm very grateful for any help on this.

Regards,
Kristoffer Erlandsson




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jun  6 02:32:59 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 08:32:59 +0200
Subject: python/curator crashing on smb mounts
References: <pan.2003.06.06.04.49.43.556339@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <m3n0gvyauc.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Thomas I" <immel6 at attbi.com> writes:

>   File "/usr/local/bin/curator", line 2668, in walkDirsForIndex
>     os.symlink(rel(dir._pagefn, dir._path), lnfn)
> OSError: [Errno 1] Operation not permitted
> 
> Why is the operation not permitted, just because the directory is in
> an smbmounted drive?

Yes. SMB does not support symbolic links.

Regards,
Martin



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Thu Jun 19 17:28:29 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:28:29 GMT
Subject: Alternatives to Python ?
References: <3EF18A03.3050706@netspace.net.au> <3ef162b1.1998842363@news.blueyonder.co.uk> <vf3b2tkehep50d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3ef22ad6.2050079228@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:28:13 -0000, claird at lairds.com (Cameron
Laird) wrote:
> In article <3ef162b1.1998842363 at news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> Alan Gauld <alan.gauld at btinternet.com> wrote:
> >snowball4 might be a wiser move. For web programming you might
> Searches for "SNOBOL" or "SNOBOL4" will be more satisfying.
> 
> If I knew a way to express a spelling correction more 
> cordially, I would.

Oops! blush...

Alan G



From careers at redhat.com  Mon Jun 30 03:21:17 2003
From: careers at redhat.com (careers at redhat.com)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 03:21:17 -0400
Subject: Movie
In-Reply-To: <200306300708.h5U78CZ10536@mx2.redhat.com>
References: <200306300708.h5U78CZ10536@mx2.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <200306300721.h5U7LHf16631@lacrosse.corp.redhat.com>

Thank you for submitting your resume to Red Hat, the largest and 
most recognized provider of open source technology. Red Hat places
emphasis on recruiting extraordinary talent and we continuously 
search to add talented individuals into our international company.

We will review your resume for the position you have applied for
and contact you should we require any additional information. 

Because of the volume of resumes we receive, we can not personally 
contact everyone. Please know that your resume will stay active in 
our database for six months from submittal date.

To learn more about our company, the services/products we have to 
offer, please visit our website at (http://www.redhat.com)

Again, thank you for your interest in working for Red Hat.

With kind regards,

Red Hat Global Recruiting Department





From timr at probo.com  Thu Jun 19 01:55:09 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:55:09 -0700
Subject: Python 2.2.2 win32 build
References: <mailman.1055842229.11549.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vuj2fv4t6fkbecgncjq0utne7oounvsde1@4ax.com>

Sebastien Hugues <sebastien.hugues at swissinfo.org> wrote:
>
>I built Python 2.2.2 dll and exe under win32 using Visual Studio and now
>i wonder how i could make a distribution from my build. The official 
>distribution
>uses Wise, but i didn't see and config file for Wise in the package...

Why would you want to?  There is already a standard distribution.  Why make
a non-standard distribution?  I'm just as comfortable knowing that I can
count on *A* Python distribution being *THE* Python distribution.

If you want to install a script onto a machine that does not have Python,
you should look at something like the McMillan installer.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Jun  3 14:35:54 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 03 Jun 2003 20:35:54 +0200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054630325.7920.python-list@python.org> <3EDC6A13.5020409@nospam.com>
Message-ID: <m3k7c3dn5h.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Kendear <kendear at nospam.com> writes:

> > In C and Perl, assignment is an expression. In Python it is a statement.
> > This is a deliberate design decision to prevent people from writing code
> > like this:
> > while a = 5:
> > 	...
> 
> so you mean in Python,  =  is just
> like if, for, while... ?

Yes, in the sense that assignment is a statement, not an expression.
No, in the sense that if, for, while require a block, whereas
assignment doesn't.

So = is more like print, import, raise...

Regards,
Martin




From ed at membled.com  Sat Jun  7 17:53:35 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 07 Jun 2003 22:53:35 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

>He consciously choose the heterogenous mixture of statements and
>expression as being more conducive to his goal of readability,
>especially for beginners.

I'm not trying to attack the distinction between expressions and
statements.  I know better than to do that.  I am just asking, why is
it that the body of an anonymous function cannot contain statements?

The fact that the expression / statement distinction exists is not in
itself a reason to prohibit statements from appearing in anonymous
functions.

>Expressions, but not statements, are used in assignment statements,
>operator expressions, conditions, function calls, collection
>indexing, and, yes, also in lambdas.  Making a singular exception for
>lambdas would definitely complexify the language.

You think so?  To me it looks more like a case of

'Statements, not expressions, are used in function bodies, for the
'main program' and for commands typed into the Python interpreter.
Making a singular exception for anonymous functions would definitely
complexify the language.'

Do you think that prohibiting statements inside lamda bodies follows
the principle of least surprise?

>>If a clear and simple syntax can be worked out to
>
>This is a big if.  No one that I know of has yet done so of in years
>of discussion.

Elsewhere in this thread I proposed using a simple_stmt as the body of
a lambda.  Still, if you say there has been years of discussion I am
not so foolish as to think I've found the answer.

>If substitutivity were general, then Python would be quite different
>from what it is.

I didn't argue for general substitutivity or for abolishing the
statement/expression distinction, only for allowing statements inside
lambda-functions, as they can appear inside named functions.  But I
accept that multi-line lambda definitions would be too awkward.


>>I think that the rule of 'anything that fits on one line'  is such
>>a simple rule
>
>Simple?  'line' is not a syntactic category

It seems to me from the Python grammar that the production simple_stmt
is a statement that fits on one line.

>In either case, you are proposing a new syntactic category of
>'pseudoline'.  Would you allow them to contain multiple statements,
>separated by ';', like real lines?

No no.  I know that these are all favourite topics on the Python
newsgroup - assignment as expression - multiline statements with ; -
written block delimiters - perhaps deliberately mentioned by astute
trolls who know how to get certain residents excited.  But I am not
advocating any of that.  Just one small and seemingly simple change,
to let a single line of code be used as the body of an anonymous
function rather than only expressions as at present.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sun Jun  1 09:41:47 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 13:41:47 GMT
Subject: Examples of descriptors?
References: <bba9u0$li0$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <vonCa.30145$ca5.3622@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

"Edward C. Jones"
> What, exactly, is a "descriptor"? The closest thing to a definition that
> I can find is: a class that defines __get__, __set__, and __delete__.
> Where can I find some examples?

Here is a draft write-up on descriptors:
    http://tinyurl.com/d63d

Parts to be added:
* data descriptors
* more detail behind object.__getattribute__

Comments are welcome.


Raymond Hettinger







From adriano.volpones at arscomputandi.com  Sat Jun  7 09:18:57 2003
From: adriano.volpones at arscomputandi.com (Adriano Volpones)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 13:18:57 GMT
Subject: help python and jpgraph
Message-ID: <5DlEa.91936$g92.2134812@news2.tin.it>

Hi to you all,

has anyone some experience with python and jpgraph in WINXX ?

Adriano





From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jun  3 23:44:56 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 03 Jun 2003 22:44:56 -0500
Subject: A Python application server?
In-Reply-To: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1054698295.717.26.camel@lothlorien>

On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 09:20, Duncan Smith wrote:
> Hello,
>          I'm trying to put together a (basic) design for an online
> examination system.  The system already exists, but is based on Java
> technologies.  I have (probably prematurely) assured the author that the
> system could have been developed in Python.  This is based in faith rather
> than reason, as I have never had cause to consider such a thing before
> (although I can now envisage that I might need to develop a simple
> application server within the next year or so).
> 
> Having looked at PYRO, Twisted and WebWare I'm pretty confident that most of
> the technology is in place.  But I have been told that to emulate the
> existing system there would have to be a Python equivalent of an 'untrusted
> Java applet'.  (I'm not convinced this is actually necessary for the given
> app., but the existing system does use RMI and Java applets.)
> 
> What I'm basically trying to address is the following statement (from some
> of his lecture notes):
> 
> "Java is the only mainstream technology that adds the required level of
> safety for code travelling around a network, and the flexibility to invent
> our own controls, regardless of the operating system being used."

It's not Java the language, but Java the VM, and Java the install base,
that makes it appropriate for an applet.  Right now the only other
options that have the install base, and are accessible without requiring
the user to install anything, are Flash and Javascript, both of which
can probably accomplish what you desire.  Javascript is free, and I
suspect the best option for you -- it's certainly the most transparent
of the three options and lets you use your HTML skill, though browser
compatibility is a pain.  Of course, you can also use Jython to create
an applet in Python that runs on the Java VM.  In my experience a pinch
of Javascript (but not too much) creates the best user experience.

Frank Barknecht wrote a survey program using Webware, with a database
backend using SQLObject.  I suspect it would take some time to get
installed, as it hasn't been packaged, but the code exists that should
be helpful.  You can find it in the Webware Sandbox CVS repository:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/webware-sandbox/Sandbox/fbar/survey/

Surveys and quizes should probably look similar -- you have questions
and collect answers from users.

  Ian






From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sun Jun  8 13:20:43 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 10:20:43 -0700
Subject: solving the metaclass conflict
References: <2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7@posting.google.com> <25b5433d.0306071443.63b27df6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306080920.7d67c9c@posting.google.com>

Uhmm ... I think I will refactor further that last snipped, maybe putting
everything in a class. As it is, probably generatemetaclass does not
store the metaclasses correctly. Anyway, the idea is clear and solving
the metaclass conflict at all orders does not seem so difficult ...

             Michele



From junk at geekabytes.net  Sat Jun  7 16:38:40 2003
From: junk at geekabytes.net (junk)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 14:38:40 -0600
Subject: Prolog-style unification?
References: <HlmEa.107$Hw.137249@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <3EE24D50.4070108@geekabytes.net>

Robert Oschler wrote:

>Has anybody seen a Python module that adds Prolog-style unification (pattern
>matching) to Python?  I know about PyLog and SnoPy, but that's not quite
>what I'm looking for.
>
>thx
>
>--
>Robert Oschler,
>Android Technologies, Inc.
>http://www.androidtechnologies.com
>- The home of Off-Book! (tm)
>The scene memorization tool for Actors and Actresses!
>
>
>  
>
Hi Robert,

I am working on a Master's Thesis currently where this issue is of 
concern.  I would also like to know if there is such a module.

In the mean time, I have written my own module which does a pretty good 
job of simulating Prolog style calls.  Here is what my syntax looks like 
right now:

import logic
Father = logic.Fact()
Father("Seth","Alex")
Father("James","Seth")
X = logic.LogicalVariable()
Y = logic.LgocialVariable()
while Father(X,Y):
    print X, Y

print "--------------"

Grandfather = logic.Fact()
Grandfather(Grandfather.Grandfather, Grandfather.Grandson) (
    Father(Grandfather.Grandfather, Grandfather.Son)
    Father(Grandfather.Son, Grandfather.Grandson))

while Grandfather(X,Y):
    print X,Y


The output of this is:

James Seth
Seth Alex
------------------
James Alex

I'm still tracking down bugs all the time, but it's getting pretty good.

Would you PLEASE let me know what you think?

-- Seth James Nielson





From timr at probo.com  Wed Jun  4 01:07:18 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 22:07:18 -0700
Subject: Python IO performance?
References: <m33civ37b2.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <mailman.1054370388.6981.python-list@python.org> <m3k7c61ktg.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <3edb7b8e$0$15844@echo-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <hhvqdvgqftk8ee3mjiccc8d1te5thnnab3@4ax.com>

"Rob Hall" <robhall at ii.net> wrote:
>...
>I converted the program into Ada - Ada being very fast.  But there were no
>real performance gains here.

I'm taking this thread wildly off-topic, but that line intrigued me.  The
last time I worked with Ada, better than a decade ago, the compilers were
absolutely hopeless, partly because the language is so vast and complex.
It looked like there would never be a time Ada could compete with C or
Fortran in terms of performance.

Has that situation changed?
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  9 06:01:17 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:01:17 +0100
Subject: Recall last result
References: <3ee4577d$0$25096$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: <3EE45AED.8A20FD8E@hotmail.com>

Erich Neuwirth wrote:

> Is there a standard way of recalling the last result?

Try "_", which accesses the last expression result, i.e.

>>>3.1415927*(2.5*2.5)
19.634954375
>>>_
19.634954375

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From david.abrahams at rcn.com  Sun Jun 29 11:30:43 2003
From: david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams)
Date: 29 Jun 2003 08:30:43 -0700
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <c9%Ha.200753$g92.4077297@news2.tin.it> <uy8zy4vzs.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <pNfIa.206219$g92.4232233@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <ea97dfd9.0306290730.137c6837@posting.google.com>

[Reposting; Apparently this never made it to the list]

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

> <posted & mailed>
>
> David Abrahams wrote:
>    ...
>>> Sometimes X might perhaps be of the form "a is of type B", but
>>> that's really a very rare and specific case.  Much more often it
>>> will be "container c is non-empty", "sequence d is sorted", "either
>>> x<y or pred(a[z]) for some x>=z>=y", and so on, and so forth.
>> 
>> Those assertions are *chock full* of type information:
>
> Rather, they IMPLY what you choose to call "type information" 

I'm not making this notion up; it is well-accepted in some circles.
Let me quote from Benjamin C. Pierce, _Types and Programming
Languages_:

    As with many terms shared by large communities it is difficult to
    define "type system" in a way that covers its informal usage by
    programming language designers and implementors but is still
    specific enought to have any bite.  One plausible definition is
    this:

       A type system is a tractable syntactic method for proving the
       absence of certain program behaviors by classifying phrases
       according to the kinds of values they compute.

You'll probably argue with most of that definition, but that's what
I'm talking about, and that's why "container" is type information:
having knowledge that c is a container classifies some of the phrases
involving c.

> (which has little to do with the typesystem of, say, C++ or Java)

Which are, respectively, a mess and uninteresting.

> as well as other information (which isn't sensibly mappable to
> "type" in any nontrivial way).  E.g.:
>
>>       the type of c is a container
>
> Rather, "c is a container".  Choosing to express "c is a container"
> as "the type of c is the type of a container" is just the kind of
> useless, redundant boilerplate that negatively impacts productivity.

LOL!

I wrote "c is a container" first, but went back and changed it
because I thought you would criticize the way I phrased it.

> And in neither C++ nor Java can you express "c is a container",
> either directly or indirectly, except in comments -- the
> type-systems of either language (the two most-widespread languages
> today that use compiletime typing) just don't match the concepts
> that you're trying to smuggle in as "type information" .  

Actually as you suggest below, you can do it in C++ using library
constructs, but it is not really part of the language's design.

> In _Haskell_ you might collect the characteristics that define a
> type's containerhood as an appropriate typeclass (*NOT* type!); in
> Java you're simply out of luck; in C++ I guess you (you personally,
> as a template-wizard, but not 99%+ of C++'s users;-) might possibly
> define a template that "by convention" (not in a language-supported
> way as in Haskell) lets you assert containerhood -- "informally",
> albeit reasonably effectively (better than a comment...).

I think it comes a lot closer to being fully-featured than that; in
fact you can remove functions from the overload set or disable
template specializations based on constraints.  But like all template
metaprogramming tricks in C++, at its core it's a hack.  Mostly we
rely on concept definitions.

> In Python one generally identifies (just as informally) a container as
> "an object which has a length" (using "length", perhaps a suboptimal
> choice of wording, to mean "number of items currently contained") and
> simultaneously express both 'c is a container' and 'that container is
> not empty' by
>
>     assert len(c)

That understanding of "containerness" is, AFAICT, not universally held
among Pythonistas by any means.  Good thing too, probably: it looks
like there is no such thing as an empty container:

     >>> assert len([])
     Traceback ...

In any case, this is *way* more informal than the equivalent concept
definition would be for C++.  We would want to say not only something
about the type of the return value (e.g. an unsigned integral type),
but also its relationship to other invariants of the type being
tested.

> This will be checked at runtime rather than at compile-time -- but
> the concept that there's something utterly precious in being able to
> check "function len can be meaningfully called with c as an argument"
> prematurely with respect to "the result of the call will be non-0" is
> pretty bogus.  Python checks both at once and raises TypeError or
> AssertionError if either half of the assertion is invalid, period.

Why bother with the assertion anyway?  This appears to be LBYL.

> There may be worth in making this notion of "protocol" more formal
> (desperately trying to avoid nouns which have been hijacked for many
> vaguely related meanings in the past, such as "type", "interface",
> "category" -- C++ uses "concept" similarly, I believe, in the generic
> parts of the language and library).  

Yes.

> I think there is -- PEP 246 being a (rather defect-laden) early
> attempt, PyProtocols a rather nicer and newer one (with enhancements
> wrt PEP 246 but broadly consonant with it).  But IMHO that worth is
> connected to the concept of *adapting* an object to a protocol, far
> more than on insurances about an object "already conforming" to a
> protocol without adaptation (the concept of conformance can even be
> modeled as a limit case of that of adaptation, though that's
> admittedly silly hairsplitting;-).

I think you're very focused on checking and not giving enough
attention to the following questions:

    "what do I need to know to write a new component that works (and
     will continue to work) with this library"?

    "I have to fix a bug in this function; how can I tell what it
    expects (and has advertised as an expectation) of the code that is
    calling it, so that I know my modifications don't break clients?"

>> Type declarations don't have to identify concrete types; they can
>> identify concepts, constraints, and relationships.
>
> In some theoretical world, perhaps.  In practice, again, that's
> bogus.  

That's a pretty strong statement.  IIUC Haskell supports exactly the
sort of thing I mean with type classes.  A quick googling finds this
among many other examples: http://tinyurl.com/eptl.  I'm pretty sure
that OCaml has something like that too, but I'm less confident of
that.

> You can't meaningfully have a type declaration for "an
> odd integer not divisible by 3" in C++ nor in Java.  

Are you kidding?  I sure can do that in C++.

> The vague theoretical possibility that a be-all, end-all future
> language would let you capture "constraints and relationships" this
> way is being used strictly as a soft-soap for justifying the use of
> languages whose actual typesystems are enormously different, and
> strongly focused on implementation issues.  

Maybe by some; not by me.

> I'd be quite willing to fight against the hypothetical "perfect
> static typesystem" as "nearly as useless" if a working prototype of
> it was presented, but it's really a waste of time.  Let's talk about
> the reality of C++ and Java instead, shall we?  

No thanks.  Why limit ourselves to the theoretically-unsound and the
bland?

> The theoretical problem with types embedding all sorts of
> "constraints and relationships" is that as soon as you try to
> meaningfully operate on them your compiler's possibilities to ensure
> compiletime type safety tend to disappear (which is why languages
> with a strong theoretical basis in type theory eschew that route).

They may "tend" to disappear, but it isn't a foregone conclusion.
See Haskell for example, or http://sourceforge.net/projects/felix/,
another interesting language.

> Given type ZT as "odd integer not divisible by 3", in theory you
> might infer that the sum of ZT's can't possibly be a ZT, the product
> must be, but what about, say, the division-with-truncation?  And
> who's going to draw all the deductions about the various arithmetic
> operation restricted to ZT down from Z, etc, so that when the
> forbidden prime factors in ZT are 2 and 3 you can draw certain
> deductions but when they're 3 and 5 instead you can't any more (the
> sum of two of THOSE might still be valid, etc, etc)?

I agree that those things are hard to deduce.  I also think they are
probably not worth the trouble to try to handle at compile-time.

>>> Type declarations would have extraordinary "explanatory power" if
>>> and only if "a is of type B" was extraordinarily more important than
>>> the other kinds of assertions, and it just isn't -- even though, by
>>> squinting just right, you may end up seeing it that way by a sort of
>>> "Stockholm Syndrome" applied to the constraints your compiler forces
>>> upon you.
>> 
>> Suggesting that I've grown to love my shackles is a little bit
>> insulting.  I have done significant programming in Python where I
>> didn't have static typing; I've gotten over my initial reactions to
>> the lack of static checks and grown comfortable with the language.
>> Purely dynamic typing works fine for a while.  I have seen real
>> problems develop in my code that static type checking would have
>> prevented.
>
> And (e.g.) Robert Martin has not.  Now, one can explain this in
> many ways -- perhaps Uncle Bob and you are using different approaches
> to developing your programs, and his (test-driven development, these
> days) avoids the "real problems" that develop in your code; 

I *always* do TDD, even in C++.

> or perhaps he's unable to see what you're able to see so clearly.

Maybe.

> Any hypothesis with explanatory power about this cannot fail to be
> offensive to either you or him, if one wants to take it as
> insulting.  

I don't want to.  Peoples' experiences differ and that's all I need
to explain the fact that we may have come to different conclusions.

> Since my experience matches Uncle Bob's quite closely, and my
> reflections and musings on the matter end up supporting this side of
> the argument just as well as my practice does, I think I can be
> justified in expressing my opinion on the subject.  

Sure.

> Human beings are extremely good at rationalizing their experiences
> (and their cognitive dissonances): I have experienced this
> personally, too.  If it's insulting to say that somebody's
> exhibiting a typically human trait about it, then I can give a long
> list of cases which would be insulting against myself.  

It's only a little bit insulting.  I have given significant thought
and reflection to this issue.  

I *could* say that the heat and length of your response is an
indication that my posting has threatened something which you hold as
a religious belief without justification.  I was not going to do that
because I know you to be thoughtful and experienced, and I think that
would insult your intelligence.

> For example, as a fervid Pascal user I was extremely keen on
> range-types, declaring all over the place variables that were
> "integer from -3 to 17 included" and the like, and considered this a
> great boon of the typesystem.  It took quite a while to realize that
> these were not in fact statically checkable constraints except in
> the most trivial of cases, and that moving to (e.g.) C or C++ and
> losing the ability to express this "exquisite informational power"
> didn't give me any real practical problem and in fact saved me the
> time wasted in trying to pinpoint each variable's range in the first
> place.  A few "assert(x>=-3)" *where it MATTERED* worked far, far
> better than some silly type declaration way up there at the start
> about "x will never be less than -3" -- the documentation was more
> accessible to the reader, the occurrence of checking more explicit
> and thus obvious.  Etc, etc.

I guess I was never so naive: giving up Pascal ranges didn't bother
me for more than about a second.

>> It's not an illusion that static types help (a lot) with certain
>> things.  The type information is at least half of what you've written
>> in each of those assertions.  I use runtime assertions, too, though
>> often I use type invariants to constrain the state of things --
>> because it makes reasoning about my code *much* easier.  An
>> ultra-simple case: it's great to be able to use an unsigned type and
>> not have to think about asserting x >= 0 everywhere.
>
> I would be ecstatically glad to see a nice fight, no holds barred,
> between a proponent of this latest sub-thesis and a designer of
> statically typed languages which do NOT support the concept of
> "unsigned type".  In Java, "unsigned" means "without a signature"
> (thus, a risky applet;-).  But I think that the issue may be taken
> as a good example of the above, wider thesis.  *IF* having an "x
> that's always >= 0" *WAS* indeed such a precious concept, "makes
> reasoning about your code *much* easier", 

You're taking my statement the wrong way.  Class invariants plus
static typing makes reasoning about code much easier.  Having
unsigned types is only a small contributor to that (as I said, an
ultra-simple case).

> etc etc, then *why* has nobody ever widened that concept to
> *FLOATING POINT* types for x?  Where's the "unsigned float" in the
> next C++ release...?

Probably, among other things, because that constraint is much less
useful for floating types.  I think you'll see assert(f >= 0) much
less often than unsigned types are used.

> In practice, as I'm sure you know, unsigned types in C/C++ are
> tricky indeed (that's why Java removed them -- they deemed them
> too tricky to use reliably by ordinary programmers).  

Because they're low-level and don't include underflow checks.

> E.g. cfr http://sandbox.mc.edu/~bennet/cs220/c_code/uns_c.html and
> the like.  They were born from *IMPLEMENTATION* considerations,
> historically, which only apply to integral types.  

Yep.

> The "makes reasoning easier" justification is a post-facto
> rationalization, belied by the glaring absence of the same facility
> where implementation would not gain, as in floating-point numbers.

Maybe.  I just picked the simplest example at hand where type
information is useful for reasoning.  There are lots of better ones.

>>> Types are about implementation
>> 
>> No, they're about a relationship between an interface and semantics.
>> Most people leave out the semantics part when thinking about them,
>> though.
>
> In practice, the typesystem of languages such as C++ and Java is
> mostly about implementation.

No argument.  One has to work a little too hard to make them about
what types should be about.

> "The semantics" is simply left out of these languages' typesystems
> -- relegated to comments (which might just as well be there in
> Python or any other language and aren't going to be compiler-checked
> anyway).  The famous exception to this is Eiffel with its notion of
> contract -- but notice that contracts are checked, if at all, *AT
> RUNTIME* -- thus, claiming they're part of COMPILE-TIME notions of
> typing is a falsification.

I think you misunderstand.  I don't mean to enforce semantics.  I
trust people to make types whose semantics match the ones documented
to be associated with the type constraints.  In other words, if you
say, in the language:

     type X is a Container

and "Container" has some defined semantics (e.g. if len(c) > 0,
c[len(c)-1] doesn't raise an exception), I don't expect the compiler
to check that.  That relationship of semantics to interface is
captured in one place, when it is asserted that X is a Container.

> The notion of "type" is kept fuzzy (deliberately or not) so that
> when arguing about typing one can freely swing between incompatible
> aspects, claiming compile-time checkability on one side while
> handwaving about semantics (contracts) that are run-time checks,

No, I'm not even suggesting the use of run-time checks for these
things, except possibly in the implementation of X itself.

> claiming "modern notions of types" while in fact talking about
> languages such as C++ and Java which support mostly implementation
> oriented type issues.

See, not only do you mistake what I'm talking about, but you persist
in treating me like I am double-dealing.  I am not "in fact talking
about C++" (and certainly not Java, horrors!)

>>> and one should "program to an interface, not to an implementation"
>>> -- therefore, "a is of type B" is rarely what one SHOULD be focusing
>>> on.
>> 
>> In a modern type system, "a is of type B" mostly expresses an
>> interface for a and says nothing about implementation per se.  It does
>
> Is C++'s type system modern?  

No!  It's fairly recent, but that's not the same thing ;-)

> How does "a is an int" or "a is unsigned" ``say nothing about
> implementation per se''??!!

I'm talking about "a is Integral" (see http://tinyurl.com/eptl again,
the diagram in particular).

> "a is of some type that supports interface X" is very often a
> RUNTIME notion (expressed in Java by a "(X)a" cast, in C++ by
> dynamic_cast),  not necessarily a statically checkable one.  

You could do that, but I don't see why you're mentioning it.  I would
*never* use dynamic_cast for that in C++.  That can be completely
represented with a statically-checkable combination of runtime and
static polymorphism.

> The part that's sure to be statically checked (because it lets the
> compiler generate faster code!-) is the *actual* typing -- the
> implementation-related part thereof.
>
>> say something about the effects of using that interface, though that
>> part is harder to formalize.
>
> Eiffel formalizes it -- with RUNTIME checks, of course:-).  Languages
> that don't formalize it in any way cannot sensibly claim to have that
> notion in their typesystems, whether the latter are claimed to be
> "modern" or not.

A language which does no static checking makes it a lot harder to
maintain even an informal relationship.

>> However, with a nod to "practicality beats purity:"
>> 
>>      People don't usually think in these abstract terms about most
>>      of their code, and rigorously documenting code in terms of
>>      interface requirements is really difficult, so most people
>>      never do it.
>
> This could also be expressed as: rigorously documenting code (in
> just about any terms) has pretty low productivity-returns, compared
> to less rigorous and formal documentation that is runtime-checkable
> (contracts in Eiffel, assertions in Java/C++/Python).  Quite
> sensibly, people focus on programming practices that DO have good
> productivity returns.

Most people don't write libraries.  I do.  Libraries without rigorous
documentation of the requirements on their parameters suck.  Writing
sucky software is no fun.

>>      It's a poor investment anyway because *most* (not all) Python
>>      code is never used generically: common interfaces for polymorphic
>>      behavior are generally captured in base classes and a great deal
>>      of code is just operating on concrete types anyway.
>
> "Common interfaces for polymorphic behavior" are *almost never*
> "captured in base classes" -- "file-like objects" are a typical
> example of this, or, if you want a more focused one, consider
> "iterable objects".

I know about those cases, which is why I said "not all"; well if it
were really *almost never* inheritance wouldn't be so important in
Python.  In all the Python frameworks I've seen where one person has
defined two or more classes which have the same interface, they share
a common base class.  When new people define components to fit the
same polymorphic slot, they tend to inherit from that base as well.

Furthermore, I've seen *lots* of places where code is documented as
accepting a "sequence" when in fact if you pass a tuple it breaks.

>>      The result is that there are usually no expression of interface
>>      requirements at all in a function's interface/docs, where in the
>>      *vast* majority of cases a simple (non-generic) type declaration
>>      would've done the trick.  [Without the expression of interface
>>      requirements, the possibility to use the function generically is
>>      lost, for all intents and purposes]
>
> It seems that the quality of documentation for the functions I've
> been using in Python is substantially higher than that for those
> which YOU have been using.  The lack of *formal*, rigorous docs is
> generally not a serious problem; functions that e.g. take a filelike
> object argument ARE generally kind enough to mention that fact (as
> the filelike interface is so fat, it IS typically underdocumented
> what fraction of it is actually in use

Which makes "filelike" almost meaningless to someone who wants to know
what they need to supply to the function... unless they precisely
implement the whole file interface, a small change to the function's
implementation or even just the execution paths inside the function
can break the client's code.

>  -- but I don't see any simple nongeneric type declaration that
> would help fix this at all).

No, for that you need a generic type declaration.  Of course it's easy
to *seem* to defeat the argument that lots of code could use simple
non-generic static typing by throwing an example which requires
generics at it.

>> So, while I buy "program to an interface" in theory, in practice it
>> is only appropriate in a small fraction of code.
>
> On the contrary, I think it's the need to fix specific types that
> might be appropriate only very rarely.

I don't think you *need* to do it often, I just think that the work of
defining generic concepts means that it's often more expedient to use
a static type.

>>> Of course, some languages blur the important distinction between a
>>> type and a typeclass (or, a class and an interface, in Java terms
>>> -- C++ just doesn't distinguish them by different concepts

C++ doesn't even have typeclass in the language (unions don't count).

>> Nor does most of the type theory I've seen.
>
> Does Haskell count?  typeclasses vs types?

Sure, that's a language definition, not type theory.  But Haskell is
well-grounded.

>>> so, if you think in C++, _seeing_ the crucial distinction may be
>>> hard;-).
>> 
>> I know what typeclasses and variants are all about.
>
> I'm sure you do, as a general issue.  But the language you're using
> to think and work about a specific problem still colors how easy or
> hard is it to conceptualize in a certain way wrt another.

I think you're presuming *way* too much about how I think of this
issue.  I'm not a "one-language kind of guy".

>>> my procedure receiving argument x
>>>
>>>     assert "x satisfies an interface that provides a method Foo which
>>>             is callable without arguments"
>>>
>>>     x.Foo()
>>>
>>> the ``assert'' (which might just as well be spelled "x satisfies
>>> interface Fooable", or, in languages unable to distinguish "being
>>> of a type" from "satisfying an interface", "x points to a Fooable")
>>> is ridiculously redundant, the worse sort of boilerplate.
>> 
>> Only if you think that only syntax (and not semantics) count.  It's
>> not just important that you can "Foo()" x, but that Fooing it means
>> what you think it does.
>
> But, to repeat, "the language-supplied concept of "interface" is too
> weak" to ensure this, except perhaps by contracts (runtime checks) in
> Eiffel.  So, the static type checking does *NOT* help at all here.

I disagree.  It limits the problem substantially.  Fulfilling the
right semantics can be asserted (and tested) in one place.

> What the compiler can check for you is ONLY that x provides a
> method Foo callable without arguments -- the "signature" part of
> things, which Python checks at runtime instead.  Whether Foo writes
> useful information to disk or sends a letter of insults to your
> cousin is way beyond the compiler's ability to determine;-).

Totally agreed.

>>> Many, _many_ type declarations are just like that, particularly if
>>> one follows a nice programming style of many short
>>> functions/methods.  At least in C++ you may often express the
>>> equivalent of
>>>
>>> "just call x.Foo()!"
>>>
>>> as
>>>
>>> template <type T>
>>> void myprocedure(T& x)
>>> {
>>>     x.Foo();
>>> }
>> 
>> In most cases it's evil to do this without a rigorous concept
>> definition (type constraint) for T in the documentation.  Pretty much
>> all principled template code (other than special cases like the lambda
>> library which are really just for forwarding syntax) does this, and
>> it's generally acknowledged as a weakness in C++ that there's no way
>> to express the type constraints in code.

Well, as I mentioned earlier, there is a way, but it's more
cumbersome than it should be and ultimately a template hack.

>>> where you're basically having to spend a substantial amount of
>>> "semantics-free boilerplate" to tell the compiler and the reader
>>> "x is of some type T"
>> 
>> Where are you claiming the expression of the type of x is in the code
>> above?  I don't see it.
>
> the "(T& x)" part says "x is a reference to the type which we'll call T
> here", i.e. "x is of some type T".

T is not a type in the code above (your "type T" [sic]
notwithstanding).  It's just a name for a type ;-)

> As my main thesis is that the constraints that really matter can
> hardly ever be expressed as statically checkable type constraints,
> the "generally acknowledged weakness of C++" is (if a weakness at
> all) common to all alternatives.  E.g., the Java alternative where a
> Fooable interface is defined and method myprocedure receives a
> "Fooable x" argument is just as semantics-free -- comments and/or
> other forms of doc will be around, sure, but they're not
> "compile-time statically checkable" anyway, and may just as well be
> around in any language.

Even in Java that localizes all opportunities for a mis-correspondence
between Fooable and x to the classes derived from Fooable.

>>> (surprise, surprise; I'm sure this has huge explanatory power,
>>> doesn't it -- otherwise the assumption would have been that x was of
>>> no type at all...?)
>> 
>> This kind of sneering only makes me doubt the strength of your
>> argument even more.  I know you're a smart guy; I ask you to treat my
>> position with the same respect with which I treat yours.
>
> If you're familiar at all with my writing style, you know I always
> jest -- generally "with a straight face" a la Buster Keaton -- when
> I come upon jestworthy sub-issues (and not always only then).  If you
> can only debate in a sombre tone, then I can but suggest we drop this
> (not a big loss, to be sure -- these debates have been held a zillion
> times and have never convinced anybody of anything -- and besides, I'm
> about to leave for a month's worth of business trips -- pypy sprint,
> Europython, OSCON, ... -- so this debate can't continue anyway).

I love a nice jestful debate.  Maybe your whole post is jestful and I
failed to recognize it.  It certainly seems to have a derisive tone
which makes it hard to see the love.  Where's the love, people?
Anyway, if you tell me you didn't mean it that way I'll take your word
for it.

>>> while letting them both shrewdly infer that type T, whatever it
>>> might be, had better provide a method Foo that is callable without
>>> arguments (e.g. just the same as the Python case, natch).
>> 
>> Only if you consider the implementation of myprocedure to be its
>> documentation.
>
> Documentation is comments, docstrings, and other venues yet, which
> are not statically compile-time checkable and are pretty irrelevant
> to the debate about the worth of such checks, quite obviously.  The
> "meat", the part that doesn't "go out of date", is what can be
> "checked" at compile- or run-time, and is language-relevant.

My point was that you can only "shrewdly infer that type T, whatever
it might be, had better provide a method Foo that is callable without
arguments" from the code you posted by looking at the implementation.

>>> You do get the "error diagnostics 2 seconds earlier" (while compiling
>>> in preparation to running unit-tests, rather than while actually
>>> running the unit-tests) if and when you somewhere erroneously call
>>> myprocedure with an argument that *doesn't* provide the method Foo
>>> with the required signature.  But, how can it surprise you if Robert
>>> Martin claims (and you've quoted me quoting him as if I was the
>>> original source of the assertion, in earlier posts)
>> 
>> Hey, sorry, I just let Gnus do its job.  If the quote attributions
>> were messed up then someone messed them up before me.
>
> Nope, you (not Gnus) just cut out the attribution of the quote, which
> was on a separate line from the snippet you picked out of the quote.

Well, then sorry again.  I couldn't even find the posting you were
referring to.  FWIW, if it was a case like this:

          Alex wrote:
          >> something Robert wrote
          >
          > something Alex Wrote

I don't normally consider that to be a problem.  Is it?

>>> that this just isn't an issue...?
>> 
>> It doesn't surprise me in the least that some people in the Python
>> community claim that their way is unambiguously superior.  It's been
>
> Is "Uncle Bob" Robert Martin "in the Python community"?  

I assumed so.

> His books all use C++ and Java, I believe, as does the great mass of
> his articles, and I believe the journal for which he was the editor
> was titled "C++ Report", not "Python Report", wasn't it?

I'm ignorant in this matter.

> So, I surmise that (probably subconsciously) you're "relegating"
> Robert Martin to the role of a "person in the Python community" just
> so you can AVOID "being surprised" at his claims (which are about
> dynamic typing in general -- he mentions Ruby and I think Smalltalk
> as well as Python) -- perhaps for the same reason you cut out the
> little detail that I was quoting him...?-)

Ugh, gimme a break.  It's not a claim I'm surprised by; I've seen it
a lot.

>> going on for years.  I wanted to believe that, too.  My experience
>> contradicts that idea, unfortunately.
>
> Have you given TDD a chance?  

I always do TDD.

>> Comprehensive test suites can't always run in a few seconds (the same
>> applies to compilations, but I digress).  In a lot of the work I've
>
> Say 3 minutes and 2 minutes, then -- as long as the ratio stays
> the same the unit of measure doesn't matter:-)

But it doesn't.

>> done, testing takes substantially longer, unavoidably.  A great deal
>> of this work is exactly the sort of thing I like to use Python for, in
>> fact (but not because of the lack of type declarations).  If
>> compilation is reasonably fast and I have been reasonably
>> conscientious about my type invariants, though, I *can* detect many
>> errors with a static type system.
>
> But compilation need not be fast, as you just "digressed"
> yourself;-).

Not sure what point you're making.

>> But more importantly, I can come back to my code months later and
>> still figure out what's going on, or work with someone else's code
>> without losing my way.  Isn't that why we're all using Python instead
>> of Perl?
>
> Having the information that "x is an int" stated out like that
> rather than (say) implicitly where it matters is hardly crucial
> to "figuring out what's going on".  

ints are hardly ever a problem.  A parameter called "node" might be.

> And having the compiler statically test that fact, rather than
> testing it by a small core of unit-tests that can also check out
> several other crucial aspects not expressible in static-typing
> terms, is even less important.
>
>
>>> I do, at some level, want a language where I CAN (*not* MUST) make
>>> assertions about what I know to be true at certain points:
>>> 1. to help the reader in a way that won't go out of date (the assert
>>>    statement does that pretty well in most cases)
>>> 2. to get the compiler to to extra checks & debugging for me (ditto)
>>> 3. to let the compiler in optimizing mode deduce/infer whatever it
>>>    wants from the assertions and optimize accordingly (and assert is
>>>    no use here, at least as currently present in C, C++, Python)
>> 
>> Those are all the same things I want, and for the same reasons.  What
>> are we arguing about again?
>
> A. about CAN vs MUST -- I'd rather not have these possibilities at
>    all, than be FORCED to use them even where I judge their impact
>    on my productivity would be negative (forcing me to waste my
>    time, and the code reader's attention, on reams of boilerplate)

No, I don't want MUST.  You seem to misunderstand almost everything
I've been saying.

> B. about the importance of checks occurring at compile-time vs run-time,
>    which I think is miniscule and NOT worth distorting the language
>    in any way [note that my point 2 would be perfectly well satisfied
>    if what the compiler did in most cases was inserting error-checking
>    code to be executed at runtime, cfr again Eiffel contracts]

That may be true.  I recently added runtime function parameter type
checking to a small interpreter I work with, purely for the
expressive power it has.  Of course, it's better than a comment
because it doesn't go out-of-date without causing errors.  

On the other hand, when code has to be efficient you don't want to pay
for the runtime check, and some code still needs to be compiled to be
fast enough.

> C. about whether "x belongs to type A" is a sensible way to express
>    most important assertions for purposes of 1/2/3 -- I claim it isn't,
>    you claim it is -- partly based on subtle confusions about "belong
>    to type" MEANS (in type-theory vs programming-practice e.g. in C++)

Nope, you underestimate me.

> as well as debating-style (sombre vs jestful)

No, just friendly/respectful vs. derisive/vituperative.

> Robert Martin's role as a member of the "Python community",

I won't argue with you about that because I don't know anything about it.

> whether it's reasonable at all to cut out a quote's attribution, 

I don't think it's reasonable; I thought the attribution had to be
previously-missing.

> and sundry minor tangential points.

Probably those.



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Sun Jun 15 18:49:46 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:49:46 +0100
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m1tpevcasprfdirat1h3mg1go5atq4vsst@4ax.com>

On 15 Jun 2003 13:28:06 -0700, beliavsky at aol.com wrote:

>In Python, you don't declare the type of a variable, so AFAIK there is
>no way for the interpreter to check that you are calling functions
>with variables of the correct type.

That's one of the reasons I would not advocate Python for mission
critical systems.  But then, neither would I advocate C++ or FORTRAN,
for a whole host of reasons.  The mission critical systems I work with
have the possibility of killing a few hundred people whenever they go
wrong, and the whole system development process, including choice of
language for software elements is quite specialised.

Using a rather looser meaning of "unsafe" than the one I usually work
with, yes, Python is type unsafe.  Does it matter? Well, it depends.
Sooner or later all code comes down to machine code, which is type
unsafe on any system I can think of.  You need to manage the types in
your program somehow; the more help your language gives you the less
likely you are to get bugs in this area but, /mutatis/ /mutandis/, the
harder it is to use the language and the longer it will take you to
roll out your code.  These are conflicting concerns.  Python is
deliberately placed towards the "ease of use" end of the scale, where
I believe it excels.  For some work that's simply not where you need
to be and you should be using a different language.  I don't believe
in general purpose programming languages; to misquote Michael Jackson
(the JSM one, not the "Thriller" one nor the Beer Hunter one) "If a
language claims to help you equally well with every problem, it won't
help you much with any problem".  Or to misquote him again, "If a
language is claimed to be just as good for all problems, it  probably
probably is, but not in the way the person making the claim intended".



From gupt_vive at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 14 05:38:41 2003
From: gupt_vive at hotmail.com (vivek kumar)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 15:08:41 +0530
Subject: Hot to get Python executable's path ??
Message-ID: <Law15-F110VHKgGcaJC00052a7e@hotmail.com>

Hi all,

  I am writing a CGI app. I was trying to find out a way to change the #! 
line in the CGI scripts for different platforms using an install script. 
Like as I am developing it on windows so the line says

         #!c:\python22\python.exe

Now on linux it may be /usr/bin/python or /usr/local/bin/python and on 
windows also it may be anywhere the user has installed it. So is there any 
way to find out the path for that. I tried

          distutils.sysconfig.get_config_var(...)

with "exec_prefix" and "prefix". But on linux it showed me /usr only ? So is 
there any way to find the path for the Installed Python executable to 
substitute it in my CGI scripts?

TIA and Kind Regards
Vivek Kumar

_________________________________________________________________
Dress up your desktop! Get the best wallpapers. 
http://server1.msn.co.in/msnchannels/Entertainment/wallpaperhome.asp Just 
click here!





From peterm at resmed.com.au  Wed Jun 11 21:32:46 2003
From: peterm at resmed.com.au (Peter Milliken)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:32:46 +1000
Subject: Jython anyone?
References: <f0a79190.0306111106.4cae235@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8LQFa.68$5e4.2428@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Perhaps an example of my experience :-):

I have strong feelings *for* Jython and I attempted to port a working
Python/Tkinter application to it (figured I could do some stuff in the
graphics in Java that I couldn't work out how to do in Tkinter and also get
printing from within the application as a bonus without having to learn
about win32 and the vagarities of printing under Windoze - Java printing
looks easier to work out than Windoze printing!).

My problems were:

1. Jython hadn't been updated to be Python 2.1( or are these 2.2 features? I
can't remember but you get the drift :-)) compatible so some of my Python
code needed to be reworked i.e. property statement didn't work

2. My application depended heavily on the Pickle module - using the released
version of Jython, all of my data refused to load. I then tried a
"conversion" where I used the Jython version of Pickle - that failed as
well. Then in desperation (desperation because I then had to explore ant etc
just to get the source to compile!) I downloaded the CVS tip, "compiled" it
but still no success on the Pickle problem. So I gave up, Jython 1.1 wasn't
for me.

I mentioned my problems at (2) on the Jython email list but nobody was
interested in fixing the problem or even having an in depth look at the
issue (I didn't raise a tracking problem, so it never got to that stage). So
that would indicate to me (at least :-)) that the project may be under
resourced (aren't they all? I did receive suggestions that I could fix it
myself but the behaviour was inconsistent and I already had a working
application with Python/Tkinter :-)).

I received a number of testimonials from users of Jython stating they were
exceedingly happy with it. But observation of the release schedule (there is
none and Jython 1.1 is Dec 2001) and my particular experiences over the last
7 months would indicate that if Jython 1.1 meets your needs then go for it -
otherwise I would suggest being somewhat wary of it. Of course this
statement will bring howls of protest from some of the Jython adherents but
I am, after all, just relating my experiences :-)

There does seem to be a tacit attitude of the maintainers of Jython that if
1.1 doesn't suit your needs then just download the "tip" - but that's not
"solid" enough for me to consider making a major commitment on! :-) "tips"
are for people who don't mind the cutting edge, warts and all. I fail to
understand why Jython hasn't received a new release/baseline in all of that
time - perhaps it is indicative of the feature set? i.e. in all that time
only bugs have been fixed? and no new Python features added? It is difficult
to tell from the outside as there doesn't seem to be much information given
out as to the maintainers interests, schedule or whatever.

In the meantime, I "lurk" on the jython email list hoping that one day
Jython will get an update that will allow my Python 2.2 code to work out of
the box (including Pickle) :-) But I have given up holding my breath! :-)

Who knows? Perhaps my experiences with Pickle and Jython are an extremely
isolated incident, I can only comment from my own experiences. Given the
"speed" at which Jython is approaching the current(?) Python standard, I
would suggest that the project is severely under resourced and you would be
advised to be extremely careful before committing in any major way to the
use of Jython. After all, one of Python's strengths is the support of the
user community - that doesn't seem to be present in any significant
(significant in the sense that Jython is falling behind the Python standard
rather than keeping up or approaching) degree with Jython - there are some
enthusastic users however :-)

So, since you are asking for my "feelings" on Jython - you now have them :-)
Of course, now that I have been "negative" about it, I'm sure you'll get one
or more "glowing" testimonials from satisfied users :-)

Goodluck,
Peter


"anthony" <ajc1961 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0a79190.0306111106.4cae235 at posting.google.com...
> Does anyone have strong feelings one way or another regarding Jython?
> I just started playing around with it, but the limited online
> discussions and the sort have me wondering if it's worthwhile.  Any
> thoughts?
>
> Anthony





From rjklinux at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 20 11:18:29 2003
From: rjklinux at yahoo.com (raymond)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 08:18:29 -0700
Subject: Python for Industrial Control
Message-ID: <53a964f4.0306200718.f342995@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am really interested in using Python to control GPIB and USB
controlled instrumentation. I have had success with GPIB, however, I
have some test equipment that can be controlled via a USB interface. I
have searched around the web and found items relating to USB enabled
web cams and digital cameras. I am guessing that my solution can at
least use these programs as a starting point.

I would like to hear from anyone who does use USB from Linux to
control any sort of industrial device. What were your experiences in
getting it to work?.

I am also in the process of putting together a test excutive, written
in Python, to automate production testing. I have been working in this
field for more years than I care to remember and I have came across
many offerings from many companies. Maybe it is time for an open
source version?.

Thanks

RjK



From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Jun 18 15:57:51 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:57:51 GMT
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
References: <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6@posting.google.com> <eppstein-0047EB.09403118062003@news.service.uci.edu> <3EF0AAFB.DDA5F555@engcorp.com> <eppstein-1DFD94.11562718062003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <3v3Ia.109349$pR3.2389728@news1.tin.it>

David Eppstein wrote:

> In article <3EF0AAFB.DDA5F555 at engcorp.com>,
>  Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> 
>> > >>> L = [6,3,3,3,5,7,6,3,4,4,3]
>> > >>> [x for x, y in zip(L, [L]+L) if x != y]
>> > [6, 3, 5, 7, 6, 3, 4, 3]
>> 
>> But this won't work if L contains a reference to L!  :-) :-)
> 
> Ok, what's the quickest way to build a new object that's guaranteed
> unequal to any previous object?  E.g.
> [x for x, y in zip(L, [lambda x:x]+L) if x != y]
> 
> There must be a better way to do this than with a lambda.

Actually, "lambda:0" is a good candidate for "an object that's
not gonna equal any object with a different id()" -- it's just
8 characters.  "object()" is also 8 characters.  Not sure what
you mean by "quickest" or "better", but number of characters in
the source seems an objective-enough measurement.

What about L[:1] + [x for x,y in zip(L[1:],L[:-1]) if x!=y] as
a less-tricky variant of your list-comprehension?  Does need L
to be a non-empty list (not another sequence, not an empty one),
but that might be acceptable perhaps...


Alex




From jung-paz at t-online.de  Tue Jun 17 12:05:16 2003
From: jung-paz at t-online.de (Thomas Jung)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:05:16 +0200
Subject: swig and init_module or initmodule, windows XP
References: <bcn8cd$efu$00$1@news.t-online.com> <smq8kb99.fsf@python.net> <bcnccl$bp6$07$1@news.t-online.com> <n0ggk8mw.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <bcne84$ekq$07$1@news.t-online.com>

"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:n0ggk8mw.fsf at python.net...
> [Please don't top-post. I've rearranged the following to compensate...]
>
> "Thomas Jung" <jung-paz at t-online.de> writes:
>
> > "Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:smq8kb99.fsf at python.net...
>
> >> "Jung-Paz" <jung-paz at t-online.de> writes:
> >>
> >> > I am using Python2.2, mingw and Swig 1.3.19, Windows XP, and trying
> >> > to build a module using the distutils.
>
> >> > Basically it works, but in the final linking step I get an
> >> > undefined reference to "initexample" (the module name is example).
>
> >> > This sounds reasonable, as the file example_wrap.c, as produced by
> >> > swig, contains only a function "init_example.c".  If I replace
> >> > "init_example" by hand with "initexample" and compile and link by
> >> > hand, everything is fine, and I get a loadable and usable module.
> >> > Any idea how I could make swig to produce other function names, or
> >> > whatever could help ?
> >>
> >> Sounds like you should name your extension _example.pyd instead of
> >> example.pyd...
> >>
> >
> > But: I could rename it once I have it - however, unless I change that
> > "init_example" to "initexample" by hand, it dies in the linking step
with a
> > unresolved reference to initexample ...
> >
> Can you post the setup script you use?
>
> Thomas

Here is setup.py:
========================================================================
# setup.py
import distutils
from distutils.core import setup, Extension

setup(name = "Simple example from swig website", version = "2.2",ext_modules
= [Extension("example",["example.i","example.c"])])
========================================================================

and example.c (from the SWIG tutorial):

=========================================================================
#include <time.h>
double My_variable = 3.0;

int fact(int n) {
    if (n <= 1) return 1;
    else return n*fact(n-1);
    }
int my_mod(int x, int y) {
    return (x%y);
    }
char *get_time() {
    time_t ltime;
    time(&ltime);
    return ctime(&ltime);
    }

===========================================================================

and example.i:

===========================================================================
/* example.i */

%module example

%{

/* Put header files here (optional) */

%}


extern double My_variable;

extern int fact(int n);

extern int my_mod(int x, int y);

extern char *get_time();

============================================================================


I call then "python setup.py build_ext -cmingw32 (or -ccygwin, when I try
that with cygwin)

I just had a look at  SWIG-1.3.19/Source/Modules/python.cxx, there is a line
which changes module to _module, IF shadow classing is enabled.

However, I did not do that, at least not intentionally ...

Again, thank you very much ...



(BTW: what is top-posting ? How did I possibly do that ? I am sitting in
front of a windows machine, using outlook, and not really familiar with
windows. My family is forcing me now to use this  :-)





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jun 11 10:58:35 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 07:58:35 -0700
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bc5nko$4c9$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306110658.6ad6cc81@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<bc5nko$4c9$0 at 216.39.172.122>...> 	 syncmeth = (synchronized(lock), classmethod)
>          def foo(self) as syncmeth:
>              perform method operation
> 
> Is it reasonable to think of this mechanism as a kind of meta-classes for functions?
> Is there some unification that should not be painted out of the future?
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

Looks like an interesting idea. Do you have any further thought on that?

                                Michele



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun  4 14:38:17 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:38:17 -0500
Subject: Saving Lists as BLOB
In-Reply-To: <bblc5n$mtp$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
References: <bblc5n$mtp$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <16094.15513.799194.19798@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    John> Is there any way to save a Python List (or Dictionary) as a binary
    John> field in MySQLdb?

    John> I have tried :

       CR.execute("UPDATE STDPAGE SET content_s = %s,fldlist = %s"
                  " where name = 'DATAENTRY'", (pagout,flds) )

    John> where flds is a python list and I get an sql error.  I dont want
    John> to convert the list to a string which would work.

You could pickle your list (or dictionary):

    CR.execute("UPDATE STDPAGE SET content_s = %s,fldlist = %s"
               " where name = 'DATAENTRY'", (pagout,pickle.dumps(flds)))

That converts it to a string, but in a more robust way than str() or repr()
would.  Upon load from the database you just pickle.loads() what's
retrieved.

Note that cPickle will be faster, especially if you use the binary format.
See the libref section for the pickle and cPickle module for details.

Skip





From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Tue Jun  3 16:09:01 2003
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: 03 Jun 2003 22:09:01 +0200
Subject: adodbapi and py2exe
References: <873ciri8nj.fsf@flibuste.net> <d6hvx7i4.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <87he767wki.fsf@flibuste.net>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> writes:

> Wilk <wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net> writes:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I want to package a script which use adodbapi for msaccess with ado, but
> > py2exe forget to put a dll : pythoncom22.dll
> > It's not a big problem, i can add it by hand, but i would like to know
> > if there is a cleaner solution.
> 
> Mark Hammond changed the way the pythoncom22.dll is loaded, and py2exe
> doesn't yet contain the needed magic to catch it. Copying it by hand is fine.

Thanks, i was afraid that it was a more important problem...

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun  3 13:49:27 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:49:27 -0600
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.3999999999 ?
In-Reply-To: <a8b7f07a.0306030633.6123a6a4@posting.google.com>; from alloydflanagan@attbi.com on Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 07:33:17AM -0700
References: <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com> <mailman.1053017062.18647.python-list@python.org> <895e4ce2.0306021736.13c657a5@posting.google.com> <slrnbdo1i8.a95.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3EDC1074.CA05EC23@alcyone.com> <slrnbdo8cl.abe.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3EDC5DBE.83E93BA9@alcyone.com> <a8b7f07a.0306030633.6123a6a4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030603114927.B1162@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth A. Lloyd Flanagan:
  [...]
> def get_one():
>     yield '0'
>     yield '.'
>     while 1:
>         yield '9'
> 
> Exercise for the reader:  write a program to prove that get_one()
> equals one.

Here's a hack for this purpose:

    import copy

    def generatorstate(genit):
        # broken, really; assumes no use of globals, for example
        frame = genit.gi_frame
        return copy.deepcopy((frame.f_locals, frame.f_lasti))

    def period(genit):
        items = []
        states = [generatorstate(genit)]
        while True:
            items.append(genit.next())
            states.append(generatorstate(genit))
            if states[-1] in states[:-1]:
                break
        i = states.index(states[-1])
        return items[:i], items[i:]

    def rational(genit):
        integerpart = int(''.join(list(iter(genit.next, '.'))))
        preamble, repeated = period(genit)
        preamble = ''.join(preamble)
        repeated = ''.join(repeated)
        repeated = Rational(int(repeated), 10**len(repeated)-1) \
                   / 10**len(preamble)
        preamble = Rational(int(preamble), 10**len(preamble))
        return integerpart + preamble + repeated

Then, with a suitable Rational class (see below), we have

    >>> rational(get_one())
    Rational(1, 1)

as desired.

A simple implementation of a Rational class:

    def gcd(a, b):
        while b:
            a, b = b, a % b
        return abs(a)

    class Rational(object):
        def __init__(self, numerator, denominator=1):
            if denominator == 0:
                raise ZeroDivisionError('%r/%r' % (numerator, denominator))
            if denominator < 0:
                numerator = -numerator
                denominator = -denominator
            g = gcd(numerator, denominator)
            self.numerator = numerator//g
            self.denominator = denominator//g

        def __str__(self):
            return '%s/%s' % (self.numerator, self.denominator)

        def __repr__(self):
            return 'Rational(%r, %r)' % (self.numerator, self.denominator)

        def __add__(self, other):
            if isinstance(other, int) or isinstance(other, long):
                return self + Rational(other)
            elif isinstance(other, Rational):
                return Rational(self.numerator*other.denominator
                                    + other.numerator*self.denominator,
                                self.denominator*other.denominator)
            else:
                return NotImplemented
        __radd__ = __add__

        def __mul__(self, other):
            if isinstance(other, int) or isinstance(other, long):
                return self * Rational(other)
            elif isinstance(other, Rational):
                return Rational(self.numerator * other.numerator,
                                self.denominator * other.denominator)
            else:
                return NotImplemented
        __rmul__ = __mul__

        def invert(self):
            return Rational(self.denominator, self.numerator)

        def __truediv__(self, other):
            if isinstance(other, int) or isinstance(other, long):
                return self / Rational(other)
            elif isinstance(other, Rational):
                return self * other.invert()
            else:
                return NotImplemented
        __div__ = __truediv__

        def __rtruediv__(self, other):
            if isinstance(other, int) or isinstance(other, long):
                return Rational(other) / self
            else:
                return NotImplemented
        __rdiv__ = __rtruediv__

-- 
Steven Taschuk                staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I tried to be pleasant and accommodating, but my head
 began to hurt from his banality."   -- _Seven_ (1996)




From david_martin at carrefour.com  Wed Jun 11 12:47:29 2003
From: david_martin at carrefour.com (dma2)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 09:47:29 -0700
Subject: read_until problem under telnetlib
Message-ID: <b94c6ea6.0306110847.571d6690@posting.google.com>

hi, i am having a problem that seems not to have been adressed yet on
this list

i work on thousands of cisco equipements, and as usual the cisco
prompt is not consistent across their whole range of equipements and i
need this kind of code

tn.write ('sh conf\n') #this command print the startup configuration
on cisco
try:
   sh_conf = tn.read_until(["\(enable\)", "#"],5)
except EOFError :
   print "telnet interrompu, impossible de lire le sh_conf" + ip
   unreachable.write("telnet interrompu, impossible de lire le
sh_conf" + ip + '\n')
   continue
   
i used to match a sting like "foo" i had previously sent to the
equipement but i need a cleaner solution that does not make the cisco
complain about unknown command
i want to match 2 differents strings ( ios or catos )  
 
and i get this message

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python22\script\telnet-python-2.py", line 265, in ?
    sh_ver = tn.read_until([ "\(enable\)", "#" ],2)
  File "C:\Python22\lib\telnetlib.py", line 284, in read_until
    i = self.cookedq.find(match)
TypeError: expected a character buffer object

i use this line elsewhere and it works

prompt5 = tn.expect (["\(enable\)","#"],2)

expect is supposed to accept multiple string or compile regexp
but i can't get it to work
any help welcome
thanks



From mwallace1 at wp.pl  Wed Jun 25 05:24:04 2003
From: mwallace1 at wp.pl (mwallace1)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:24:04 +0200
Subject: swig+structures -> python
Message-ID: <bdbpm6$91m$1@news.mch.sbs.de>

Hi,

Please help me to solve this problem.
I have such  function written in C:

search(
            const char *base,
            int scope,
            const char *filter,
            char **attrs,
            LDAP_Entries **entries);

where LDAP_Entries is a structure.

When I call this function from Python, :
search("ou=applications;ou=general_data;o=zus,c=pl",
                    SEARCH_SCOPE_SUBTREE,
                    "cn=KW_*",attrs,entries)
where :
attrs = ["cn","command"]
entries = []
it says:
TypeError: Type error. Expected _p_p_char

This function return data in entries parameter.
I dont want to have access to data in entries,but only an object (handler to
it), so I can put returned value in entris into other function,also called
from Python.
Do i have to make a typdef functions , so wrapper understands what I want to
have back ?

thanx for all your help,


mwallace.






From eeide at cs.utah.edu  Fri Jun 20 11:29:37 2003
From: eeide at cs.utah.edu (Eric Eide)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:29:37 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Definition of Aspect Oriented Programming
References: <cb7ba330.0306171854.53378bcf@posting.google.com> <8csIa.133$rN.2282@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
 <1pv4fvsv2bvmglio3l5be4e9qakim3or4t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ywrptl8938e.fsf@ioka.flux.utah.edu>

"jkraska" == jkraska  <Courageous> writes:

	>>> What is aspect oriented programming? 

	jkraska> Dynamic retrofit of classes to support functionality not
	jkraska> anticipated by their designer.

You're describing one of the possible *uses* of AOP, but AOP is certainly not
limited to --- or even primarily useful for --- that single purpose.  AOP can
also be used to achieve modularity at other points in the software lifecycle,
for other purposes, to achieve other goals.

ObPython: thanks to the authors in this thread who have posted links to Python
AOP systems that I didn't previously know about, e.g.,
<http://www.logilab.org/aspects/>!

Eric.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Eide <eeide at cs.utah.edu>  .         University of Utah School of Computing
http://www.cs.utah.edu/~eeide/ . +1 (801) 585-5512 voice, +1 (801) 581-5843 FAX



From achrist at easystreet.com  Mon Jun 23 00:25:20 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:25:20 -0700
Subject: License Question
References: <3EF54BDF.46423D0A@easystreet.com> <slrnbfassb.r9.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <8765mxoq8k.fsf@pobox.com> <slrnbfcsji.gfb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <3EF68130.53439A53@easystreet.com>

Ben Finney wrote:
> 
> I(ANAL) would read that clause to say so, yes.  I also believe you'll
> need to include the Python license with any distribution of Python.
> 

Yes, I believe that I'm happy with the licenses and just want to comply
with what they require, but I can't find many examples to follow as
to what is actually required. 

I guess that I'm starting to think that I'm OK with respect to Python,
since I'm not making any changes to the distro, but I'm curious now
too about the BSD licensed code that I'm using in my app, for which 
I'm not distributing source.  

For example: I've got Windows NT on my machine, and I know that the
FTP program that comes with WinNT is BSD or something like it from
UC.  I see that the executable has the UC copyright notice in it, OK,
but I don't see anywhere where Microsoft has given me the notice 
about what I'm supposed to do when redistributing it in source or
binary form.  If they just distribute a binary, do they have
to include the notice about source redistributions?  Wouldn't that
confuse the users?

In my case, my program uses the csv and win32 modules, which look 
to be BSD licenses.  Does that constitute a redistribution in binary 
form according to the license?  I think that it does.  So if I 
put in the copyright notices and notices about redistribution in
source and binary form for each module that I use, how does my
user know which parts of the exe each of these notices covers? 

Al



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 25 12:20:40 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:20:40 +0100
Subject: Newbie: "compiling" scrips (?)
References: <bdbrv2$9un$02$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1056537281.12123.python-list@python.org> <bdc160$n2i$01$1@news.t-online.com> <M4gKa.319364$3n5.125426@news2.central.cox.net> <mailman.1056552526.17315.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EF9CBD8.F3AFF856@hotmail.com>

Gerrit Holl wrote:

> I don't understand how pypy can improve performance. Am I correct that pypy
> is an effort to implement Python as much as possible in Python? 

Yes, that's a part of what the PyPy people are doing.

> And am I
> correct that implementing a module in C will probably speed it up? 

In some scenarios, implementing a module in C will speed things up, but it is
not guaranteed. It depends on the data being transferred back and forth between
the C extension and the users python script. This transfer comes at a cost. If
the cost of the transfer outweighs the time spent in the C extension, then it
will be slower. Which doesn't happen very often, mind.

> Combining
> these two, wouldn't implementing Python in Python slow things down? 

Not necessarily. That's true only if you assume that the python virtual machine
interpreting the python byte codes doesn't run any faster than the current
Python VM.

> If so,
> what is the advantage of pypy?

>From my readings, I think the PyPy project is very ambitious (and I wish them
the very best of luck getting funding for it). 

Since the current python implementation has gone through many evolutions, it has
become tough to manage (at a code level) in certain areas. This is in no small
part due to the number of platforms and C compilers that the current python
works with, and the number of utilities used in producing the compiler, for
lexing, parsing, etc. Because there is so much "inertia" in the codebase, a lot
of time and effort go into making small changes.

Reimplementing python, from the grammar up, in python would free up much
development resources, allowing the python developers to focus more on things
that are important, e.g. improving the language, and adding new libraries, etc.
Also, PyPy can "leverage" (I hate that word) the fantastic portability of the
current python implementation to be running everywhere quickly: i.e. the current
Python VM would be the "bootstrap" VM.

Also, a clean redesign of the compiler and interpreter would allow for hooks to
be inserted for such products as psyco, which change the operation of the main
interpreter loop (usually optimising it for speed efficiency). This is
comparable to JIT in the jython world. Your jython script *may* run faster on
one Java VM compared to another, because the JVM interpreting the jvm bytecodes
may be using fancy assembler-level tricks to optimise for speed/memory/etc, e.g.
the "hotspot" VM. You get the benefit of increased execution speed, without a
single code change.

Another advantage is that because your VM is simpler to understand, because it's
written in python, it is easier to maintain and optimise. There is a data
structure called an "Abstract Syntax Tree", which contains a representation of
python your scripts as they are running. Sometimes, by recording statistics and
doing pattern matching on the bytecodes that are running through the machine, it
is possible to reduce the number of operations needed to execute a given script:
this is called optimisation. Native code compilers do it all the time, but
obviously only once at compilation time. Interpreters can optimise in exactly
same way, but at run time. The above mentioned hotspot java VM is an instance of
one of these.

There are many pieces to what the PyPy people are trying to do, and they have a
lot of work to do building the separate pieces, with nothing to show until it's
all ready to fit nicely together. But I think their overall model looks
promising. So hopefully, with the description above, you'll be in a better
position to understand the content of these links.

http://codespeak.net/moin/pypy/moin.cgi/PyPythonCore
http://codespeak.net/moin/pypy/moin.cgi/ObjectModel
http://codespeak.net/moin/pypy/moin.cgi/BytecodeCompiler
http://codespeak.net/moin/pypy/moin.cgi/BytecodeInterpreter

For a look at the kinds of tricks that optimising interpreters can use, in the
java world, take a look over this link

http://java.sun.com/products/hotspot/docs/whitepaper/Java_Hotspot_v1.4.1/Java_HSpot_WP_v1.4.1_1002_1.html

Looking at the PyPy object model, I can't help but wonder how they're going to
deal with continuations? (If full integration of stackless is the intention).

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From orion30 at ifrance.com  Tue Jun 24 14:55:09 2003
From: orion30 at ifrance.com (orion30)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:55:09 +0200
Subject: MSYS / MINGW32 / PYTHON / SWIG
Message-ID: <bda6qd$jkj$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

I would like to know if somebody has successfully uses
SWIF using MSYS / MINGW32 / PYTHON.

I tried to do it but apparently, I failed.

Is there somebody who can help me and give a little example.
There is a little example in http://sebsauvage.net/python/mingw.html
but it's not working for me.

At more,  I would like to used the dll versions of the glibc.
How to proceed in order to build a module (using swig) which uses a such dll
?

Best regards





From solarisboy007 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 19 17:34:08 2003
From: solarisboy007 at yahoo.com (Solaris Boy)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 14:34:08 -0700
Subject: Installing Python on Solaris 9
References: <2c1dda69.0306190001.53837879@posting.google.com> <m3isr2a28j.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <2c1dda69.0306191334.7e1c2cc@posting.google.com>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis) wrote in message news:<m3isr2a28j.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>...
> solarisboy007 at yahoo.com (Solaris Boy) writes:
> 
> > I set the environment variables and compiled the stuff. 
> > 
> > Python was installed in /usr/local/Python-2.2.3/python. 
> 
> Can you report how exactly you have 'installed' python? In particular,
> did this involve invoking 'make install'?

Yes make install invoked this.
> 
> It appears that you did not install Python, but merely built it. If
> you had installed it, the python executable would end up in a 'bin'
> directory.
> 

Yeah you might be right. I did make install again and now python is in
/usr/local/bin. Great Insight..


> > Also How do I quit out of python
> 
> Ctrl-D,

Thanks... I knew this. Just thought any other way is there.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin



From goboborz at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 25 14:52:02 2003
From: goboborz at yahoo.com (Gobo Borz)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:52:02 -0500
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
References: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3EF9EF52.8070600@yahoo.com>

Thanks Alan, Anthony, and Andy!  B's thru Z's need not respond, I have 
my answer.

--Gobo


Gobo Borz wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have a python cgi program that uses print statements to write html. 
> The program has grown, and for reasons I won't bore you with, I need to 
> build the page in a string and "print" it at once.
> 
> I remember reading somewhere that building the string with successive 
> "+=" statements is inefficient, but I don't know any alternatives, and 
> my search attempts came up empty. Is there a better, more efficient way 
> to do it than this:
> 
> #---------------------------------
> htmlPage = "<html><header></header><body>"
> htmlPage += "more html"
> ...
> htmlPage += "even more html"
> ...
> htmlPage += "</body></html>"
> print htmlPage
> #-------------------------------------
> 
> Thanks, Gobo
> 




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Tue Jun 17 18:40:16 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:40:16 GMT
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com> <bcnova$ma5$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <bcnpei$96r$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <bco0f3$jvp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <yfsznkg9wvx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnbev66f.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 17 Jun 2003 23:12:18 +0100, Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> I am not a lawyer, but my reading is that this gives the FSF a fair
> amount of control under what conditions *MY* GPL'ed code is available
> -- if they publish a new version, my code is automatically licensed
> under it -- even if I don't happen to agree with those changes. Wrong?

Yes, wrong.

You are recommended to state the distribution terms as "under the terms
of the GNU General Public License, either version 2 of the license, or,
at your option, any later version" which has an effect similar to what
you're saying; i.e. that the code with such distribution terms can be
re-licensed under a new version of the GPL (but only the ones made by
the FSF) by downstream distributors, at their option.

However, this statement is not part of the license itself; it's up to
you.  There's nothing to stop you stating the terms as "under the terms
of the GNU General Public License, version 2."  This fixes the
distribution license and gives no option to change it to anything else.

Here's what the FSF have to say about the "Version 2 or later"
recommendation:

    <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#VersionTwoOrLater>

-- 
 \     "Welchen Teil von 'Gestalt' verstehen Sie nicht?  (What part of |
  `\             'gestalt' don't you understand?)"  -- Karsten M. Self |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Jun  3 19:27:35 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 19:27:35 -0400
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054662726.12651.python-list@python.org>
 <3EDCE9C2.5020805@nospam.com> <bbipv6$9hs$1@ginger.mathworks.com>
 <l165nmn9np.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
 <mailman.1054679046.1221.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <n7S3+kKkXw3D092yn@gnosis.cx>         

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote previously:
|>>> a = 10
|>>> c = [b for b in [a+a]][0] + a
|>>> a
|10
|>>> b
|20
|>>> c
|30

Sick puppy!

...especially since I'll now probably feel compelled to do that in code.

Yours, Lulu...

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jun  1 19:27:32 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 23:27:32 GMT
Subject: Time constants module - standard-library fodder?
References: <slrnbde06f.k98.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3ed71a14$0$49099$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <slrnbdl39f.h32.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Fri, 30 May 2003 10:45:07 +0200, Irmen de Jong wrote:
> Ben Finney wrote:
>> DAYS_PER_YEAR_AVG = 365.25
>> DAYS_PER_MONTH_AVG = DAYS_PER_YEAR_AVG / MONTHS_PER_YEAR
>> WEEKS_PER_YEAR_AVG = DAYS_PER_YEAR_AVG / DAYS_PER_WEEK
> [...]
> > SECS_PER_MONTH_AVG = DAYS_PER_MONTH_AVG * SECS_PER_DAY
> > SECS_PER_YEAR_AVG = DAYS_PER_YEAR_AVG * SECS_PER_DAY
> 
> I'm not happy with this: it's wrong. The avg. number of days per year
> is 365.242199. Second, there's also a Siderial year, 365.256366 days.
> Sometimes you need the first, sometimes the other.

Indeed.  The 365.25 is a "compromise" between the tropical and siderial
years (very close to the mean average of the two lengths), rather than
forcing one or the other, or forcing the programmer to choose one and
learn about the difference between the two.

I'm in full agreement that it's sub-optimal, and "wrong".  All the more
reason for a more-standard set of constants (that have already been
pointed to in another post, to come in Python 2.3).

> Perhaps you require even greater precision than 6 fractional digits.
> Either remove these constants or define them exactly
> (you probably meant the Julian year).

I was aware of all these different year lengths, but chose 365.25 as a
"good enough" compromise between them all.  Not good where more
precision is required, of course, but good for its main purpose of Unix
time_t timestamping.

Rebuke accepted, though.  Going to the effort to define these constants,
without taking into account the different values for "year", was a
half-measure.

> I think you're opening a can of worms here ;-)
> More info at http://www.maa.mhn.de/Scholar/calendar.html

Thanks for that.  My primiary reference has been:

  Calendar FAQ
  <http://www.tondering.dk/claus/cal/>

I'll add the reference you gave to my list :-)

-- 
 \     "Remember men, we're fighting for this woman's honour; which is |
  `\                probably more than she ever did."  -- Groucho Marx |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sat Jun 21 16:37:14 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 06:37:14 +1000
Subject: GUI interactive prompt with non-text output
In-Reply-To: <20030622043621.DF728365C6@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <000601c33834$e935fc30$a300a8c0@emilio>

From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]
> On Behalf Of James Tauber
> 
> On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:37:33 +1000, "Tim Churches"
> <tchur at optushome.com.au> said:
> > James Tauber wrote:
> > > Is anyone aware of extensions to a GUI interactive prompt (such as
> > that
> > > in IDLE) where the statements executed might be able to produce a
> > > graphical output after the input prompt as well as text (as you
would
> > get
> > > if you did a "print").
> [...]
> 
> > Have a look at PyCrust - see
http://www.orbtech.com/www/PyManual.html
> > Or if want a higher level interface to wxPython, try PythonCard (see
> > http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/) - see Figure 5 of the turtle
example
> > at http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/samples/turtle.html - is that
what
> > you had in mind?
> 
> It would if the pentagon had actually been drawn on the shell canvas
> immediately below the input that produced it.
> 
> I'm thinking of something that would support the following (but with
> nicely drawn graphics rather than the ASCII art):
> 
> >>> draw_square(side=100)
> 
>     +-----+
>     |     |
>     |     |
>     +-----+
> 
> >>> integrate("3x", "x")
> 
>          2
>        3x
>        --- + C
>         2
> 
> >>> draw_bar_graph([3,5,2])
> 
>    |   #
>    |   #
>    | # #
>    | # # #
>    | # # #
>    +-------

I suspect that could be achieved by dynamically inserting alternating
text and graphics canvas widgets in a wxPython grid or table. However,
personally I can't see why having two windows is less functional, as
long as the correspondence between the command and the output is
indicated and synchronised somehow. However, I can see why you might
want to mix the two when creating a permanent record of the session (for
printing, archiving or distribution), along with other comments or
explanatory text. It was Knuth who introduced the term "literate
programming" I think but it seems to have really taken hold with
statisticians and mathematicians - there is a list of tools to
investigate here: http://shelob.ce.ttu.edu/daves/lpfaq/faq.html

Tim C







From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jun 19 21:22:38 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 02:22:38 +0100
Subject: os.path weirdness
References: <bcne3p$qgp2@cui1.lmms.lmco.com> <3EEF41EF.ACF5B0C0@engcorp.com> <3EF1804E.8080300@lmco.com>
Message-ID: <87of0th7a9.fsf@pobox.com>

Jeff Layton <jeffrey.b.layton at lmco.com> writes:
[...]
>     Also, thanks for the comments below. I haven't used the
> debugger at all yet. I'm an old fashioned kind of coder that
> uses lots of "write, printf, print" to debug :) I really do
> need to learn the debugger though.

I don't think so.  print statements are a perfectly good way of
debugging Python code.  One of the benefits of an interpreted
language.


John



From tstrelar at net4u.hr  Thu Jun 19 09:48:11 2003
From: tstrelar at net4u.hr (Tomislav Strelar)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:48:11 +0200
Subject: Unicode problem under IDLE on win32
References: <bcs434$11o$1@brown.net4u.hr> <bcs572$n2k$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <bcsevd$vo6$1@brown.net4u.hr>

"vincent wehren" <v.wehren at home.nl> wrote in message
news:bcs572$n2k$1 at news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...

> This is a known problem in IDLE.
>
> It looks like this issue has been solved or less solved in IDLEfork
> (http://idlefork.sourceforge.net)

Thank you. IDLEfork does it..... Thanx.

Tomislav





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Mon Jun 16 20:21:59 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:21:59 GMT
Subject: Backward-compatibility: help or hindrance?
References: <mailman.1055786548.2454.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbesnp6.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:01:11 -0700, Michael Chermside wrote:
> the range() function could not simply be changed to work the way
> xrange() works now, because there was lots of existing code out there
> that assumed that range() returned a list. You see, the maintainers of
> Python work quite hard to avoid as much backward-incompatibility as
> possible.

This concerns me.  Isn't it the dream of backward-compatibility that
gave us the monster that is C++ trying to advance the programming art
while leaving all the cruft of the old language built in?

I wonder how long it'll be before Python's clean, simple design is
hindered by anchors of old programming paradigms (that we presently hold
dear), weighing down the language in the much-cursed name of
"backward-compatibility".

-- 
 \     "Once consumers can no longer get free music, they will have to |
  `\     buy the music in the formats we choose to put out."  -- Steve |
_o__)                                  Heckler, VP of Sony Music, 2001 |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun  4 21:58:43 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 21:58:43 -0400
Subject: handling errors
References: <3ede90d5$0$20012$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
Message-ID: <3EDEA3D3.60FD53E5@engcorp.com>

ataraxia2500 wrote:
> 
> I got that little piece of code on a tutorial. I want to add an error
> handling to the print_menu function so that if the user enter strings
> instead of int the program doesn't crash but I couldn't make it. I tried to
> add: "except ValueError:
>         print "That was not a number.""
> at the end but it didn't do anything. any idea how I should use it?

Please post your trial using "try/except" so we can see what you were
doing wrong.  (You probably can omit most of the middle stuff, where
you test menu_choice with the if/elifs, to cut down the length of the
posting, if you wish.)

-Peter



From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Jun  9 19:38:04 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 00:38:04 +0100
Subject: Error checking in Python
References: <mailman.1055190378.10420.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <878ysa7rfn.fsf@pobox.com>

DavidW Blaschke <dwblas at yahoo.com> writes:

> With all due respect to the others who have posted a
> reply,  a very small slowdown is better than having a
> program abort.

Sigh.  That's not the point.

This has been discussed *so* many times before, with universal
acceptance amongst people who have actually listened to the arguments
and thought about it.

Google!

http://www.google.com/groups?as_q=LBYL%20group%3Acomp.lang.python
http://www.google.com/groups?as_q=EAFP%20group%3Acomp.lang.python


> BTW type checking can be done with:
>      if type(1) == type( var ) :
>         type("A") == 
>         etc.

When you *do* typecheck, use isinstance(a, b), not type(a) = b.


[...]
> Always check for "None" or an empty string first, and
> you have to return some sort of default error
> indicator if the variable is empty or can not be
> processed.

Is this a troll?  Have you heard of exceptions?


> In general, you should be able to call a function
> without worrying about any of the consequences.  It is
> the functions job to verify and alter when, and if
> possible.  An old, old saying is to write code that is
> iron-clad, meaning that it can handle almost anything
> that is thrown at it.  Sissy functions cost much more
> in the long run.  Good question though.  It shows that
> you want to develop good programming habits.

Well... the question of whether / when to assert invariants rather
than raise exceptions is an interesting one, and I certainly haven't
made up my mind.  The usual Python approach seems completely at odds
with Meyer's way of doing things (as in Eiffel), so I've been
surprised to see people doing that style of programming in Python.


John



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jun 20 17:11:17 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 21:11:17 GMT
Subject: 1== 1 is False?
References: <mailman.1056118300.27179.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcvt9l$jr8$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:07:34 +0200, delphiro <delphiro at zonnet.nl> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I get a strange error stating that two equal values are not equal. In short what I do;
>
>I calculate the intersection point of two linesegments. If they intersect I check if the intersections point is within both linesegmenents. The code for the latter is;
>
>[CODE]
>def GetLineSegmentIntersection( p1, p2, p3, p4 ): 
>	p = GetLineIntersection( p1, p2, p3, p4 )
Presumably p may have some roundoff error in its coordinates, even if e.g., p1==p3, unless
some of these cases are special cased.
>	#do we have an intersection at all?
>	if p == []:
>		return []
>	xmax = _MAX( p1[0], p2[0] )
>    	ymax = _MAX( p1[1], p2[1] )
>	xmin = _MIN( p1[0], p2[0] )
>	ymin = _MIN( p1[1], p2[1] )
>   	#within range of line 1?
>    	if( p[0] <= xmax )and( p[0] >= xmin)and( p[1] <= ymax )and( p[1] >= ymin ):
>        	#line 2
>        	xmax = _MAX( p3[0], p4[0] )
>        	ymax = _MAX( p3[1], p4[1] )
>        	xmin = _MIN( p3[0], p4[0] )
>        	ymin = _MIN( p3[1], p4[1] )
>		if( p[0] <= xmax )and( p[0] >= xmin)and( p[1] <= ymax )and( p[1] >= ymin ):
>       	     		return array((p[0],p[1]))
>	#if we get here then the point is not within the linesegments
>	return []
>[/CODE]
>
>This works fine but for some strange reason I sometimes the statement for the check of line 2 is NOT valid if p[1] == ymax == ymin. 
>
>If I print out the values I get something like 2.260212 <= 2.260212 and 2.260212 >= 2.260212 is NOT true.
>
>What's wrong?
Probably roundoff. If you have the source for GetLineIntersection, you might fix this kind
of special case -- if it's worth it -- by checking if either endpoint coincides with an
endpoint of the other line) and returning the coinciding p1 or p2 without computing the usual way.

To see the difference between two doubles, print the difference (i.e., f1-f2) ;-)
repr(f1) vs repr(f2) should also show a difference if they're different. You are probably
looking at the str(f) representation, which is designed to present numbers without long tails of 9's etc.

Depending on what you are doing with your computations, you might want to compute using
units that correspond to some practical problem resolution (e.g. pixels) while
maintaining fractional units in the floating calculations. You may then find it interesting
to compare visual effects of passing int(x),int(y) vs floor(x),floor(y), vs round(x),round(y)
as coordinates to the graphics functions.

A test that often shows anomalies quickly is to do the same geometric problem in various orientations
and mirrorings. If you are plotting results, the eye will often pick out little differences between
e.g. left and right mirror images. You may even discover a bug in your algorithms such as folklore
says made a fighter plane on autopilot flip roll to upside down when it crossed the equator ;-)

Graphics anomalies may lead you to investigate what the graphics library you are using thinks the
definition of pixel and coordinate is, to get those last one-pixel differences out ;-)

If you plot two line 'stars' (angularly evenly spaced lines radiating from the same point)
and offset their centers slightly, you will get moire effects that reveal a lot about the plotting,
and will show differences for int, floor, and round.

BTW, if you need to test radial distance someplace, don't bother with the square root, compare the
sum of the squares against distance squared instead.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Mon Jun 23 01:37:51 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 05:37:51 GMT
Subject: xrange
References: <rwkJa.1019010$OV.1115623@rwcrnsc54> <JbrJa.7647$Kg7.4897@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <YpsJa.107668$YZ2.275855@rwcrnsc53> <KKsJa.107828$YZ2.275985@rwcrnsc53>
Message-ID: <PmwJa.6109$N%6.5701@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

"Bryan" <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:KKsJa.107828$YZ2.275985 at rwcrnsc53...
> oh no...
>
> >>> for i in enumerate(['a', 'b', 'c']): print i
> ...
> (0, 'a')
> (1, 'b')
> (2, 'c')
> >>> for i in zip(count(), ['a', 'b', 'c']): print i
> ...
> (0, 'a')
> (1, 'b')
> (2, 'c')
> >>> for i in izip(count(), ['a', 'b', 'c']): print i
> ...
> (0, 'a')
> (1, 'b')
> (2, 'c')



Oh please!  That's just silly.

>>> print 1
1
>>> print range(2)[1]
1
>>> print 22-21
1
>>> print str("1")
1

Of course, general purpose constructs can be made to emulate one
another (for instance, most looping constructs reduce to "if" and "goto").

So, to answer your implied point/question/taunt or whatever it is,
here is the purpose of each and why things are the way they are:

* enumerate(seqn) was added to the builtins to address a common for
accessing list values and list indices at the same time.  That need came
up in several PEPs designed to tackle the "loop counter" problem.

* itertools.izip() is designed to be a highly efficient replacement for
zip().  In some circumstances, it is substantially more memory efficient
and faster than zip() which has to be kept in its present form for backwards
compatibilty.  For Python 3.0, I'm sure there will be only one -- the relation
of zip() to izip() is about the same as that of range() to xrange().

* itertools.count() is like itertools.repeat() in that it was designed to supply
arguments to imap(), ifilter(), izip(), and other itertools.  It allows you to
do things you can't do with enumerate() like:

          for checkno, check in izip(count(1000), checks):  . . .

          tabulate = lambda func:  izip(func, count())


Before getting in a twist about these things, try using some of the tools
to get a sense of why they are important.  If there is some overlap with
existing tools, remember that they pre-date the iterator protocol which
has done so much to unify and simplify python.

Also, try to avoid a shallow reading of the Zen of Python.
Yes, it says there is there should be only one way to do things.
But the zen is a set of trade-offs.  Guido's thoughts on the matter
are well summarized in his keynote slides from PyCon in DC:
  http://www.python.org/doc/essays/ppt/pycon2003/pycon2003.ppt

'nuff said,


Raymond Hettinger














From jtauber at jtauber.com  Thu Jun 19 11:57:40 2003
From: jtauber at jtauber.com (James Tauber)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:57:40 +0800
Subject: Feature Structures in Python (Part III)
Message-ID: <20030619155740.738832447F@www.fastmail.fm>

Here is part three which is it for now.

I'm particularly interested in possible improvements to the final unify()
function and if anyone has ideas as to the issue raised at the very end.

James

###
### FEATURE STRUCTURES IN PYTHON (Part III)
###
### James Tauber - http://jtauber.com/
### Updated: 2003-06-19
#
# This is the third part of a guide to implementing feature structures
# in Python.
#
# In the previous parts, we saw how to use dictionaries for feature
# structures and how to implement reentrancy. We also implemented a
# function to test for subsumption. In this part we'll look at
# unification.
#
# Previously, we defined the following:

def subsume(object1, object2):
    if type(object1) == type(object2) == dict:
        for feat in object1:
            if feat in object2 and \
                   subsume(object1[feat], object2[feat]):
                pass
            else:
                return 0
        return 1
    else:
        return object1 == object2

##
## UNIFICATION
#
# Unification is a partial operation on two feature structures. By
# "partial" we mean that it is possible that for two given feature
# structures, no unification exists.
#
# The unification of fs1 and fs2 is the smallest feature structure
# that subsumes both fs1 and fs2.
#
# Much like we did with subsume, we'll develop a recursive
# implementation of unification incrementally.
#
# OPEN ISSUE: Should unification failure result in an exception being
# thrown or merely None being returned? For now, I'll assume the
# latter is appropriate.
#
# Let's start with the fact that atomic values will not unify if
# non-equal and will unify to their common value if they are.

def _unify_1(value1, value2):
    if value1 == value2:
        result = value1
    else:
        return None # can't unify
    assert subsume(value1, result)
    assert subsume(value2, result)
    return result

assert _unify_1("np", "np") == "np"
assert _unify_1("np", "vp") == None

#
# Now let's define the corresponding function for two
# feature-structures with atomic values:

def _unify_2(structure1, structure2):
    result = {}
    for feat in structure1:
        if feat in structure2:
            u = _unify_1(structure1[feat], structure2[feat])
            if u == None:
                return None # can't unify
            else:
                result[feat] = u
        else:
            result[feat] = structure1[feat]
    for feat in structure2:
        if feat in structure1:
            pass # already done it
        else:
            result[feat] = structure2[feat]
    assert subsume(structure1, result)
    assert subsume(structure2, result)
    return result

fs1 = {"NUMBER": "sg"}
fs2 = {"PERSON": 3}
fs3 = {
    "NUMBER" : "sg",
    "PERSON" : 3
}

assert _unify_2(fs1, fs2) == _unify_2(fs2, fs1) == fs3

fs4 = {"CAT": "np"}
fs5 = {"CAT": "vp"}

assert _unify_2(fs4, fs5) == _unify_2(fs5, fs4) == None

#
# Now try to define our full function:

def _unify_3(object1, object2):
    if type(object1) == type(object2) == dict:
        result = {}
        for feat in object1:
            if feat in object2:
                u = _unify_3(object1[feat], object2[feat])
                if u == None:
                    return None # can't unify
                else:
                    result[feat] = u
            else:
                result[feat] = object1[feat]
        for feat in object2:
            if feat in object1:
                pass # already done it
            else:
                result[feat] = object2[feat]
    else:
        if object1 == object2:
            result = object1
        else:
            return None # can't unify
    if __debug__:
        assert subsume(object1, result)
        assert subsume(object2, result)
    return result

#
# Repeating previous tests:

assert _unify_3("np", "np") == "np"
assert _unify_3("np", "vp") == None

assert _unify_3(fs1, fs2) == _unify_3(fs2, fs1) == fs3
assert _unify_3(fs4, fs5) == _unify_3(fs5, fs4) == None

#
# And new tests:

fs6 = {
    "CAT": "np",
    "AGR": {
        "NUMBER": "sg"
    }
}

fs7 = {
    "CAT": "np",
    "AGR": {
        "PERSON": 3
    }
}

fs8 = {
    "CAT": "np",
    "AGR": {
        "NUMBER": "sg",
        "PERSON": 3
    }
}

assert _unify_3(fs6, fs7) == _unify_3(fs7, fs6) == fs8

fs9 = {
    "AGR" : {"NUMBER": "sg"},
    "SUBJ": {"AGR": {"NUMBER": "sg"}}
}

fs10 = {
    "SUBJ": {"AGR": {"PERSON": 3}}
}

fs11 = {
    "AGR": {"NUMBER": "sg"},
    "SUBJ": {
        "AGR": {
            "PERSON": 3,
            "NUMBER": "sg"
        }
    }
}

assert _unify_3(fs9, fs10) == _unify_3(fs10, fs9) == fs11

#
# But now let's try an example with rentrancy:

fs12 = {
    "NUMBER": "sg"
}


fs13 = {
    "AGR": fs12,
    "SUBJ": {
        "AGR": fs12
    }
}

fs14 = _unify_3(fs13, fs10)

#
# This, in fact, fails.

try:
    assert fs14["AGR"] == fs14["SUBJ"]["AGR"]
    success = 1
except AssertionError:
    success = 0

assert not success

#
# The reason is that we have not fully taken in to account the
# rentrancy in the process of building up our new "result" feature
# structure. 
#
# One way around this is to use destructive unification, that modifies
# the existing features in-place. Each input ends up as its
# unification with the other input.

def unify(object1, object2):
    if type(object1) == type(object2) == dict:
        for feat in object1:
            if feat in object2:
                if not unify(object1[feat], object2[feat]):
                    return 0 # can't unify
            else:
                object2[feat] = object1[feat]
        for feat in object2:
            if feat in object1:
                if not unify(object1[feat], object2[feat]):
                    return 0 # can't unify
            else:
                object1[feat] = object2[feat]
    else:
        if object1 != object2:
            return 0 # can't unify
    return 1


assert unify("np", "np")
assert not unify("np", "vp")

assert unify(fs1, fs2)
assert fs1 == fs2 == fs3

assert not unify(fs4, fs5)

assert unify(fs6, fs7)
assert fs6 == fs7 == fs8

assert unify(fs9, fs10)
assert fs9 == fs10 == fs11

fs15 = {
    "SUBJ": {
        "AGR": {
            "PERSON": 3,
            "NUMBER": "sg"
        }
    },
    "AGR": {
        "PERSON": 3,
        "NUMBER": "sg"
    }
}

assert unify(fs13, fs10)
assert fs13 == fs10 ==fs15

assert fs13["AGR"] == fs13["SUBJ"]["AGR"]
assert fs10["AGR"] == fs10["SUBJ"]["AGR"]

#
# Note however that reentrancy has only been maintained in the input
# to unify() that contained the reentrancy in the first place, so even
# though the two inputs end up *equal* after unification, they are not
# fully equivalent.

assert id(fs13["AGR"]) == id(fs13["SUBJ"]["AGR"])
assert not id(fs10["AGR"]) == id(fs10["SUBJ"]["AGR"])

#
# I do not see a simple way around this.
-- 
  James Tauber
  http://jtauber.com/




From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Jun 20 08:41:30 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 13:41:30 +0100
Subject: bug in urllib2/python23 ?
References: <bcue0g$jm8$02$1@news.t-online.com> <3EF2CBA0.148A6A6B@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <87fzm46hvp.fsf@pobox.com>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:
[...]
> There is a source patch associated with the bug, if you can't wait
> for a future release.

Better, get the up-to-date version here (CVS HEAD):

http://tinyurl.com/etds

original URL:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/python/python/dist/src/Lib/urllib2.py?rev=1.49&content-type=text/plain


John



From max at ford-consulting.com  Thu Jun 19 15:55:49 2003
From: max at ford-consulting.com (Max Barry)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:55:49 -0700
Subject: TypeError: Value() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)
Message-ID: <AB31B4D49ECDE74B8549CFBB31E782E439D4B0@EINSTEIN.ford-consulting.local>

Oops, there was a typo. You are right def foo() should be def foo(self).  I
am still getting the TypeError.  Any other suggestions.

Updated example:

 class someclass:
    def foo(self):
	self.test(somevbobject)

    def test(self, Result):
        Result.Value(1, 0)

This is the VB property that python calls:
Public Property Let Value(ByVal lngIndex As Long, ByVal sngNew As Single)
    ' Notice: presumed to be zero-based values
    msngValues(lngIndex + 1) = sngNew
End Property

Thanks,
max



-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of vincent wehren
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 12:06 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: TypeError: Value() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)


"Max Barry" <max at ford-consulting.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1056044255.14205.python-list at python.org...
> I am having problems calling a VB6 let property from a class in python.  I
> get a TypeError: Value() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given).  I presume
the
> self is being passed as the 3rd argument.  Here is an example of the
class:
>
> class someclass:
>     def foo():
How's about:

   def foo(self):
       self.test(somevbobject)

Regards,
Vincent Wehren


> self.test(somevbobject)
>
>     def test(self, Result):
>         Result.Value(1, 0)
>
>
> This is the VB property that python calls:
> Public Property Let Value(ByVal lngIndex As Long, ByVal sngNew As Single)
>     ' Notice: presumed to be zero-based values
>     msngValues(lngIndex + 1) = sngNew
> End Property
>
> Does anybody know how to resolve this problem?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Max
>
>
>
>
>


--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jun  9 13:41:35 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 19:41:35 +0200
Subject: pickle vs cPickle: error is not raised at unpickle / windows
 vs linux (!) (repost)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055173045.23169.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1055173045.23169.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ee4c6cd$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Tim Peters wrote:

> [Irmen de Jong]
> 
>>Yes, well, then please tell me why it's not best to first ask around
>>and see if anybody else has seen the same problem or even knows a
>>solution, before submitting an unfounded bug report in sourceforge?
> 
> 
> That's fine.  At the point I noticed your thread and replied, it was at
> least the third msg from you, with no responses from anyone else.  At that
> point, "first ask around" stopped being relevant two messages earlier
> <wink>.

Perhaps you're right, but I might also have a bit more patience to wait
for replies than you have ;-)


>>Which *will* take time and resources of those involved to look at it.
> 
> 
> So does posting to c.l.py, of course.

True, however the readers of the newsgroup can happily skip all
messages they don't find interesting. I hope the same doesn't happen
with the bug reports on SF!

Speaking of which, I've added my two bug reports concerning cPickle.

--Irmen




From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 24 23:19:55 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:19:55 +1200
Subject: Booleans and comparison results
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1056468546.28489.python-list@python.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306241915430.5887-100000@rnd.onego.ru> <mailman.1056468546.28489.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bdb2ta$psllg$2@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Gerrit Holl wrote:
> Is "" less than " "? I don't think so: I think that for non-numbers, "Less"
> and "More" may be misleading/incorrect. I like the idea though ;)

Maybe "Before" and "After"?

Or "Preceding" and... er... um... "Postceding"?

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From llafba at gmx.net  Tue Jun 10 11:05:21 2003
From: llafba at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:05:21 +0200
Subject: problems with debugger in PythonWin
Message-ID: <3EE5F3B1.8010603@gmx.net>

Hi,

when I used the debugger in PythonWin it usually opened all the classes 
that I refer to in separate windows. That was very nice because I was 
able to set breakpoints in these classes as well. Now the debugger 
doesn't open an extra window, but writes line per line of the code to 
the interactive window. That kind of sucks!

Maybe I accidentally changed something in the preferences, but I am 
really not aware that I did so.

I would appreciate some hints what I can do to change this situation.

Thanks in advance.
Regards Tom




From http  Mon Jun  2 10:38:55 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Jun 2003 07:38:55 -0700
Subject: A Python application server?
References: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7xk7c4y268.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Duncan Smith" <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
> Having looked at PYRO, Twisted and WebWare I'm pretty confident that most of
> the technology is in place.  But I have been told that to emulate the
> existing system there would have to be a Python equivalent of an 'untrusted
> Java applet'.  (I'm not convinced this is actually necessary for the given
> app., but the existing system does use RMI and Java applets.)

There isn't one.  There was one, but it's been removed, I think, due
to security flaws.

> What I'm basically trying to address is the following statement (from some
> of his lecture notes):
> 
> "Java is the only mainstream technology that adds the required level of
> safety for code travelling around a network, and the flexibility to invent
> our own controls, regardless of the operating system being used."

This is Java's big marketing claim but I don't think it's really true
of any system including Java.  



From hyde at math.umn.edu  Fri Jun  6 09:09:51 2003
From: hyde at math.umn.edu (E. McKay Hyde)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 08:09:51 -0500
Subject: 64 bit python on AIX -- dynload_aix problem
Message-ID: <bbq3qu$a2a$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu>

I am trying to get a 64-bit version of python running in AIX (IBM SP). 
Martin v. Lowis helped me get past a problem in the configuration, but 
now the compilation fails when building the standard extensions.

I tracked the problem down to dynload_aix.c and I found a previous post 
to this group from Davide Tacchella describing the same problem, but 
with no suggested solutions.  His post read:

> I'm trying to build Python with 64 bit support on AIX, so far I've encountered 2 problems,
> dynload_aix.c is not 100% 64 bit compliant (it includes some cast from pointer to (int));
> this was causing python to SEGV when building extensions, after changing from int to long, 
> the error is now ILL (SIGILL), there is a pointer to NULL:
> The call stack from debugger is:
> 0x000000
> initstruct (structmodule.c - line 1508)
> _PyImport_LoadDynamicModule ( importdl.c - line 53)
> load_module (import.c - line 1365)
> import_submodule (import.c - line 1895)
> load_next (import.c - line 1751)
> import_module_ex (import.c - line 1602)
> PyImport_ImportModuleEx (import.c - line 1643)
> builtin___import__ (bltinmodule.c - line 40)
> PyCFunction_Call (methodobject.c - line 80)
> eval_frame (ceval.c - line 2004)

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,

McKay




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Jun  6 23:25:09 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 23:25:09 -0400
Subject: Copying Files
In-Reply-To: <tlcEa.92271$%e.5967562@twister.austin.rr.com>
References: <tlcEa.92271$%e.5967562@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3EE15B15.1080905@rogers.com>

Using a function is normally refered to as "calling", rather than 
implementing (writing/creating).  This should work:

PythonWin 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - 
see 'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
 >>> import shutil
 >>> shutil.copyfile( 'p:\\temp\\a.bmp', 'p:\\temp\\chars\\a.bmp' )
 >>>

Note the use of strings, and escaping of \ characters within those strings.

HTH,
Mike

Stan Cook wrote:

>Can someone give me a clue on using the copyfile function?  I've tried
>implementing it in this fashion without success.
>
>copyfile(d:\work\temp.dbf, d:\w)
>
>
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.486 / Virus Database: 284 - Release Date: 5/29/03
>
>
>  
>

-- 
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From joconnor at nets.com  Thu Jun  5 12:11:06 2003
From: joconnor at nets.com (Jay O'Connor)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 09:11:06 -0700
Subject: Python IO performance?
References: <m33civ37b2.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <bbad44$2nv$1@panix1.panix.com> <bbln0q$2vl$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1054791488.27296.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030605.091105.719346228.1211@nets.com>

In article <mailman.1054791488.27296.python-list at python.org>, "Andrew
MacIntyre" <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> wrote:


> So application developers who depend on maximising some aspect of system
> performance need to take matters into their own hands, as Perl does.


Since Perl is highly tuned to types of problems that use a lot of I/O,
especially disk I/O,  I'm not really surprised it has highly tuned disk
I/O routines.  Python, to me, can do those kinds of problems, but it's
not really it's strength, so I don't image high-performance I/O to be a
priority

-- 
Jay O'Connor
http://www.r4h-music.com

"God Himself plays the bass strings first,
when He tunes the soul"



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  9 17:22:50 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 22:22:50 +0100
Subject: File reading using delimiters
References: <153fa67.0306090752.218d23b1@posting.google.com> <3EE4BE74.54950D6A@engcorp.com> <bc2n79$a0v$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3EE4FAAA.67D551EB@hotmail.com>

Ben S wrote:

> In this case, I'm reading plain ASCII text files ranging in size from
> 10K to maybe 1Mb, where strings are delimited with the tilde character.
> But I'm asking as much about the available functionality as I am about
> my particular problem. I suppose I could use read() then split() and see
> how the performance works out. I'm surprised if there's nothing that
> lets me read more selectively from the file though.

I think this should solve the problem adequately. I had just started reading
through the codecs documentation, and needed a good example to work through
creating my own codec. Yours seemed like the ideal problem, so I wrote a codec,
the code for which I've pasted here. 

It should be easy to use, and, I do believe :-), an efficient way to read the
"lines" one at a time.

To other readers: This is my first stab at a codec, so I'd be grateful for any
pointers on anything that might be out of place, or more simply or efficiently
achieved.

#------------------------------------

import codecs, re

class TildeStreamReader(codecs.StreamReader):

    def readline(self):
        buf = [] ; c = self.stream.read(1)
        while c not in ['~', '']:
            buf.append(c)
            c = self.stream.read(1)
        return "".join(buf)

def tildelines_codec(name):
   if name != 'tildelines':
       return None
   def tildelines_decode(input, errors = None):
      return re.sub("\~", "\n", input), len(input)
   def tildelines_encode(input, errors = None):
      return re.sub("\n", "\~", input), len(input)
   return tildelines_encode, tildelines_decode, \
        TildeStreamReader, codecs.StreamWriter

codecs.register(tildelines_codec)                       

# Do it in one big lump

data = "0123456789~" * 10
data = data.decode('tildelines')
for line in data.splitlines():
    print "'%s'" % line

# Create a sample data file
data = "9876543210~" * 10
filename = "tildes.dat"
f = open(filename, "wt")
f.write(data)
f.close()

# And then go through it a line at a time

for ix, line in enumerate(codecs.open(filename, 'rt', 'tildelines')):
    print "Line %d: '%s'" % (ix, line)

#------------------------------------

And that's python 2.3, BTW.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Jun 24 08:53:47 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:53:47 +0200
Subject: d.keys() and d.values()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1056449080.15576.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1056449080.15576.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EF849DB.2010707@mxm.dk>

Gerrit Holl wrote:
 > Hi,
 >
 > is it guaranteed that dict(zip(d.keys(), d.values())) == d?
 > In words, do .keys() and .values() always have the same order? Is
 > it safe to rely on this?

It says so in the docs.

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesmapping.html

(3) "Keys and values are listed in random order. If keys() and values() 
are called with no intervening modifications to the dictionary, the two 
lists will directly correspond. This allows the creation of (value, key) 
pairs using zip(): "pairs = zip(a.values(), a.keys())". "


regards Max M




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun  8 11:39:24 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 09:39:24 -0600
Subject: imghdr.what failed to identify JPEG
In-Reply-To: <e305e171.0306080318.5e7d08b9@posting.google.com>; from arsenal_hl@yahoo.com.hk on Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 04:18:25AM -0700
References: <e305e171.0306071703.79d45683@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055048975.23465.python-list@python.org> <e305e171.0306080318.5e7d08b9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030608093924.A3782@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Arsenal:
  [...]
> Bytes [6:10] for my 52 jpg files are 'Exif'. So if imghdr.what adds
> this additonal check, all of my jpgs would be correctly identified.

That would be easy enough to implement, but I really have no idea
whether it would be the Right Thing.

The docs explicitly say that 'jpeg' is returned for JFIF JPEGs;
not, that implies, for EXIF JPEGs.  I don't know what the
differences between these standards are, nor whether or to what
extent imghdr.what ought to be sensitive to the distinction.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                   w_w
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      ,-= U
                                                               1 1




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jun 15 17:30:26 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:30:26 +0200
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3eece571$0$49110$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> In Python, you don't declare the type of a variable, so AFAIK there is
> no way for the interpreter to check that you are calling functions
> with variables of the correct type.

Indeed, but then again, it usually doesn't have to :-)

Python is a dynamically typed language.
Python is also a strongly typed language.

Dynamic typing makes for very flexible and future-proof code.
To learn more about this, please read
http://www.razorvine.net/python/PythonLanguageConcepts
and
http://home.att.net/~stephen_ferg/projects/python_java_side-by-side.html#typing


> I have only been programming in Python for a few weeks -- am I right
> to worry?

No, there are thousands of Python programs that run just fine!
Python programmers feal perfectly at ease with Python's dynamic
type system. You just have to learn to understand and
appreciate it.

> Are there techniques to ensure that functions are called with
> appropriate arguments?

You *can* test the types of the arguments yourself, inside
the function. But this is regarded bad practice amongst Python
programmers, for the above mentioned reasons.


--Irmen




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jun 18 19:21:07 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 23:21:07 GMT
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
References: <mailman.1055975372.25967.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcqs53$hrb$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:28:35 -0700 (PDT), Curly Joe <woooee at yahoo.com> wrote:

>Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the compiler
>break all of these solutions down into approximately
>the same thing? The compiler has to physically step
>through the list one by one no matter how you phrase
>the code, so there would be no gain in speed.  There
>might be a small speedup for larger lists if you
>placed the previous element in a variable and compare
>the variable to this element, because then the
>compiler would only have to access one element instead
>of two elements in each pass.  But aside from that it
>seems that it is all window dressing IMHO.  I'm no
>expert on lists.  Good question though.
>
There's a lot of difference in what happens. E.g., if you zip
an offset copy to make a list of tuples, you've duplicated the
first list and made an equally long list of 2-tuples. And then
you start constructing the result list.

Destructive modification of the original list is going to take
very much less space for large lists, and likely be faster (depending
on how you do it ;-)

You can compare the code generated by disassembling with the dis module.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sat Jun 21 12:25:45 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:25:45 -0400
Subject: newbie: good reasons for learning Python?
References: <3ef37a28$0$306$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
 <ZVLIa.468$hY1.37549@news20.bellglobal.com>
 <o1NIa.611$hY1.47591@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <JcI9+ks/KLAC089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <o1NIa.611$hY1.47591 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:
>Better yet, go here:
>http://99-bottles-of-beer.ls-la.net/
>
>BTW, you can do something similar to the Ruby version in Python, though the
>"and/or" idiom is *strongly* discouraged for its potential pitfalls. (Let's
>go, PEP 308!  heh)
>
>for i in xrange(99, 0, -1):
>    print "%s bottle%s of beer on the wall" % (i, i > 1 and 's' or '')
>    print "%s bottle%s of beer" % (i, i > 1 and 's' or '')
>    print "take one down, pass it around"
>    print "%s bottle%s of beer on the wall\n" % (i==1 and 'no' or i-1, i !=
>2 and 's' or '')

   Inspiring.  But after I'd improved on it, I went to the
web site and found out I'd only recreated the programs you
were writing an alternative to.  Oh well.

Although

    's'[:i != 1]

is a cute way to generate the plural endings.

        Regards.        Mel.



verse = """%(N)s bottle%(P)s of beer on the wall,
%(N)s bottle%(P)s of beer
take one down, pass it around
%(N1)s bottle%(P1)s of beer on the wall
"""
for i in xrange (99, 0, -1):
    print verse % {'N':i,   'P':'s'[:i != 1]
                   , 'N1':i-1 or 'no',   'P1':'s'[:i-1 != 1]}


   Another way is to eliminate the named substitutions, and
build the substitution tuple as

    ((i, 's'[0:i != 1])*2 + (i-1 or 'no', 's'[0:i-1 != 1]))

but that too was anticipated in the web site.  Hmmph.



From itamar at itamarst.org  Sat Jun 28 23:55:34 2003
From: itamar at itamarst.org (Itamar Shtull-Trauring)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 23:55:34 -0400
Subject: ANN: Twisted 1.0.6 (includes security fixes)
Message-ID: <20030628235534.46f2a35e.itamar@itamarst.org>

   IMPORTANT: This release includes security updates to twisted.web.
   It is strongly recommended that you upgrade to this version of
   Twisted.

Twisted is an event-driven networking framework for server and client
applications.

For more information, visit http://www.twistedmatrix.com, join the list
http://twistedmatrix.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twisted-python or
visit us on #twisted at irc.freenode.net.


What's New in 1.0.6
===================

- Security fixes for twisted.web.

- Cred, Twisted's unified authentication and authorization framework,
was rewritten. While still not stable, the new system is far superior
and developers are encouraged to start using it.

- Flow, an utility page for integrating asynchronous control flow with
generators and iterators.

- Many improvements to the UDP subsystem.

- Many Windows-specific networking bug fixes.

- Cleanups in Woven - outputted HTML no longer includes attributes used
by templating, removed fake-acquisition for templates.

- Support switching over to TLS from TCP connections (useful for e.g.
STARTTLS in SMTP.)

- Improvements to the mail protocols and infrastructure.

- Fixed 2.2.0 compatibility.

- Index support for Lore.

- Bug fixes, documentation updates and small feature improvements.


What is Twisted?
================

Twisted is an event-driven framework for building networked clients and
servers.  It contains a powerful and simple networking core, a
full-featured suite of interoperable protocols, among them a powerful
web server and applications framework.

Twisted supports many event loops for both server apps and GUI
integration on the client side, including:

 - Win32 events, including GUI support
 - GTK+
 - GTK+ 2
 - Qt
 - wxPython
 - Tkinter

Twisted can run protocols over TCP, SSL, UDP, multicast, Unix sockets
and subprocesses. It also includes scheduling support, threading
integration, RDBMS event loop integration and other basic requirements
for networked applications.

Also included are implementations of many protocols. In some cases this
includes complete frameworks providing facilities on top of the base
protocol:

 - SSH
 - IMAP
 - DNS
 - FTP
 - HTTP, including a complete web framework
 - XML-RPC
 - SOAP server framework
 - NNTP and complete NNTP server framework
 - SOCKSv4 (server only)
 - SMTP
 - IRC
 - telnet
 - POP3
 - AOL's instant messaging TOC
 - MSN messaging
 - OSCAR, used by AOL IM as well as ICQ (client only)
 - MouseMan serial mice, and GPS devices
 - Twisted Perspective Broker, a remote object protocol




From exarkun at intarweb.us  Sun Jun  8 14:37:35 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:37:35 -0400
Subject: pickle
In-Reply-To: <20030608134851.1e010493.delphiro@zonnet.nl>
References: <2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7@posting.google.com> <25b5433d.0306071443.63b27df6@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0306080334.329fa409@posting.google.com> <20030608134851.1e010493.delphiro@zonnet.nl>
Message-ID: <20030608183735.GB25666@meson.dyndns.org>

On Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 01:48:51PM +0200, delphiro wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> I just tried to start my application on my new linux os (after a severe
> NVidia install crash :-| ) and everything went fine until I tried to read
> in a 'pickled' object. The error stated that I was trying to access a
> 'non-object'.
> 
> Does this have anything to do with the change of platform? (Until now I
> mainly used WinNT)

  It is good to include the exact text of your error and the entire
traceback that goes with it.  What is *best* is to include just enough
source code (and no more!) so that anyone else can reproduce your error.

  From what you've posted, I might guess that you are having newline
problems brought on from writing binary pickles to Windows text files, then
attempted to load them on a platform with no concept of a "text file", but
it is only a guess.

  Jp

-- 
Seduced, shaggy Samson snored.
She scissored short.  Sorely shorn,
Soon shackled slave, Samson sighed,
Silently scheming,
Sightlessly seeking
Some savage, spectacular suicide.
                -- Stanislaw Lem, "Cyberiad"




From tchur at optushome.com.au  Fri Jun 27 17:06:20 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 28 Jun 2003 07:06:20 +1000
Subject: ICA - Independent Component Analysis
In-Reply-To: <m2ptkzs10x.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <m2vfurtogf.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	 <1056744790.1169.6.camel@emilio>  <m2ptkzs10x.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <1056747980.1169.8.camel@emilio>

On Sat, 2003-06-28 at 06:45, John Hunter wrote:
> >>>>> "Tim" == Tim Churches <tchur at optushome.com.au> writes:
> 
>     Tim> There is a fastICA library for R (a free statistical analysis
>     Tim> environment) which does ICA and projection pursuit - see
>     Tim> http://cran.r-project.org/src/contrib/PACKAGES.html#fastICA
> 
>     Tim> If you want to access it from Python, try Walter Moreira's
>     Tim> excellent RPy module (see http://rpy.sf.net) which embeds R
>     Tim> within your Python interpreter and provides an incredibly
>     Tim> smooth interface between the two (including the ability to
>     Tim> directly pass NumPy arrays to and from R).  --
> 
> 
> Great -- that looks perfect.  I am confused about one thing.  It
> appears that fastica is an extension module that is not part of the
> src I downloaded.  If I install the extension, will I have to modify
> rpy to use it from python, or is there some procedure so that this
> will happen automagically?

No, you need to explicitly load extension libraries into your R session.
Assuming you are on a Posix platform:
1) Build and install a recent Python and NumPy release
2) As per the RPy instructions, build and install R with the
--enable-R-shlib option
3) Obtain and install the fastICA library for R (see the extensive R
documentation - R has the slickest fetch and installation procedures for
extensions in the business)
4) Build and install RPy (make sure you apply the patches first)
5) Within your Python code, load R and then the required extension
libraries:
>>> from rpy import * 
>>> r.library("fastICA")

-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0


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From troy at gci.net  Fri Jun  6 15:48:13 2003
From: troy at gci.net (Troy Melhase)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:48:13 -0800
Subject: XMLRPC Authentication
References: <3EE0B8B8.6070602@optonline.com> <mailman.1054915493.18139.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ve1s0s46f50efc@corp.supernews.com>

Justin:

Here's a class that I use to do this with older versions of xmlrpclib.  It's
hack-around that I haven't really looked at for months, but it might be a
good start for you.


import base64
import xmlrpclib

class BasicHTTPAuthTransport(xmlrpclib.Transport):
    """ xmlrpclib.Transport subtype that sends Basic HTTP Authorization

        This subclass recognizes xmlrpclib versions '1.0.0' and '0.9.8' and
        adjusts accordingly during class definition.  Using any other
        version of xmlrpclib will raise an exception.
    """
    user_agent = '*py*'
    credentials = ()

    def send_basic_auth(self, connection):
        """ Include HTTP Basic Authorization data in a header """
        auth = base64.encodestring('%s:%s' % self.credentials).strip()
        auth = 'Basic %s' % (auth, )
        connection.putheader('Authorization', auth)

    if xmlrpclib.__version__ == '1.0.0':
        ## override the send_host hook to also send basic auth
        def send_host(self, connection, host):
            xmlrpclib.Transport.send_host(self, connection, host)
            self.send_basic_auth(connection)

    elif xmlrpclib.__version__ == '0.9.8':
        ## override the request method to send all 
        ## the normal and plus basic auth
        def request(self, host, handler, request_body):
            import httplib
            h = httplib.HTTP(host)
            h.putrequest("POST", handler)
            h.putheader("Host", host)
            h.putheader("User-Agent", self.user_agent)
            h.putheader("Content-Type", "text/xml")
            h.putheader("Content-Length", str(len(request_body)))
            self.send_basic_auth(h)
            h.endheaders()

            if request_body:
                h.send(request_body)
            errcode, errmsg, headers = h.getreply()
            if errcode != 200:
                raise xmlrpclib.ProtocolError(host + handler, errcode, \
                    errmsg, headers)
            return self.parse_response(h.getfile())

    else:
        ## don't know what to redefine
        raise TypeError("Unrecognized xmlrpclib version: %s" % \
             (xmlrpclib.__version__, ))

(Please excuse the formatting if it comes thru wrong -- my mail reader is
uncooperative today)

Use the class like this:

>>> auth_tran = BasicHTTPAuthTransport()
>>> auth_tran.credentials = ("joe", "secretpassword")
>>> srv = xmlrpclib.Server("http://host/xmlrpc/path", transport=auth_tran)

-troy

Justin Johnson wrote:

> I have a simple xmlrpc server (using xmlrpclib) that accepts requests
> from clients and runs some administrative commands on a bunch of servers
> I support.  I would like to lock down access to the service so that only
> authorized users can use it, by authenticating with a user name and
> password.
> 
> Has anyone done this before?  Is there an already existent authentication
> framework available I can use with xmlrpc?
> 
> I was looking at twisted, and they do have an authentication framework,
> but it looked like it wouldn't work with xmlrpc.  I'm trying to verify
> this with the twisted developers as well.
> 
> Thanks.
> -Justin




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jun  3 05:26:55 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 10:26:55 +0100
Subject: Help with coroutine-based state machines?
References: <3ED622CA.4B01E3C1@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054249933.7365.python-list@python.org> <3ED76105.CB8F3ECF@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054317657.5272.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EDC69DF.A46A97D4@hotmail.com>

[Alan spends the weekend upgrading an old laptop, so he can look at
this stuff in the comfort of the garden, which was bathed in glorious
sunshine for the entirety of the Irish Bank Holiday weekend B-). He
also prints and reads the writings of Christian Tismer[1], David
Mertz[2,3] and the Timbot[4,5], in relation to generators,
coroutines, continuations, pseudo/weightless/micro-threads, etc].

Steven Taschuk wrote:

[
 Lots of great stuff which illustrates the problems of calling from
 generator/coroutine code to functional code and vice versa.
]

I now understand. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

Thanks to your clear examples, I now picture coroutines in the
following way (which I hope is correct :-).

1. The "traditional" function/method call paradigm builds a stack
frame every time a function/method is called. Since this stack frame
holds the references to the local variables for the function/method,
it must be destroyed and collected if memory is not to be "leaked".
The only time when the stack frame can be destroyed is when the
references it contains are no longer required: i.e. after the
instance of the function/method call has finished.

2. The only method by which the "traditional" function call can
invoke another "traditional" function/method call is to call it
"recursively", thus causing the construction of another stack frame.
There is no mechanism for it to "substitute" the stack frame of the
called function "in place of" its own stack frame. (Although I
believe that Stackless can do this, after much rewriting and
reinvention of truth :-).

3. Because all "traditional" function/method calls, involve the
creation and eventual destruction of a stack frame, I label the space
in which they operate "Linear stack space".

4. There is another space, which I call "Generator space". When a
call is made into "Generator space", a stack frame is not
constructed: at least not every time. Instead, a resumable and
persistent stack frame is "resumed": this "resumable stack frame" was
created once, sometime in the past: it is termed, in current python
terminology, the generator-iterator.

5. When the code in "Generator space" (i.e. the generator-iterator)
is called, it resumes immediately after where it last 'yield'ed, and
continues until it 'yield's again, or returns or excepts. When it
'yield's, two things happen. A: The resumable stack frame is
"frozen", so that it can later be resumed again. and B: A python
object, which may be None, is transferred back to the caller.

6. For any call from "Linear Stack space" into "Generator space",
there is a crossover point, P. When the called code in "Generator
space" finishes executing, it can only enter back into "Linear stack
space" through point P: it cannot exit through any other point.
(According to the current python model).

7. If any calls are made from "Generator space" into "Linear stack
space", this leads to the creation of a stack frame, which must be
destroyed. If the called function/method in "Linear stack space" then
calls back into "Generator space", and the "Linear space" function is
not allowed to exit naturally, this is essentially unbound recursion,
which will lead eventually to a blown stack. (The non-functioning
Producer/Consumer example illustrates this: the code in "Generator
space" could be made to work by "traditionally" calling the write and
read functions, but this mutual recursion would eventually blow the
"Linear space" stack).

8. When a stack frame in "Generator space" 'yield's, it is possible
to adopt a convention for the 'yield'ed value: the "dispatcher"
convention. Under this convention, the value 'yield'ed can be a
reference to another resumable stack frame in Generator space. A
special "dispatch"-function is coded to recognise these references,
and to immediately call back into "Generator space". The newly
resumed stack frame is still limited by the same constraints as the
original call into "Generator space": it must eventually return to
"Linear stack space" through point P, in this case the dispatcher
function.

9. A complex network of interacting "resumable stack frames", or
generators, can mutually 'yield' control to each other, assuming the
cooperation of the dispatcher function. Execution continually
"bounces" back and forth between the dispatch function (Point P, in
"Linear stack space") and various 'yield'ed resumable states in
"Generator space".

10. A network of interacting generator-iterators could potentially
execute much faster than an equivalent series of "traditional"
function/method calls in "Linear stack space", since there is no
overhead associated with con/destruction of stack frames, no parsing of
parameters, etc. Such a network of interacting generators are called
"coroutines", and require the presence of a dispatcher function: the
dispatcher function must be explicitly created by the programmer, as
python currently exists.

10a: refinement: In fact python generators are really
"semi"-coroutines, because of the requirement to keep 'yield'ing to a
dispatcher function. In a language which implemented
"full"-coroutines (maybe a __future__ version of python?), the
dispatcher would not be required (at least explicitly), and resumable
states could transfer control directly to any other resumable state
for which they hold a reference.

11. The efficiency benefits of generators can be also realised by
*not* adopting the dispatcher convention. Instead, a generator can
simply 'yield' the series of values it has been coded to generate:
the nodes in a data structure, the numbers in a computed series, etc.
This can lead to more natural code, particularly for the calling
function which utilises the series of values 'yield'ed: it is mostly
unaware that there is a resumable state involved in the generation of
the values. Simple example:

def squares(n):
    for i in xrange(n):
        yield n, n*n

# Instantiate a generator-iterator
sqgen = squares(100)
# We can do the following because the generator-iterator
# conventiently implements the iterator protocol.
for i, sq in sqgen():
    print "The square of %d is %d" % (i, sq)

12. It is possible to avoid the "mutual" recursion problem of calling
from "Generator space" into "Linear stack space", by the following
actions

 o Moving all "traditional" function/method calls required from
   "Linear stack space" into "Generator space".
 o By expanding the "dispatcher" convention to allow generators to
   yield special values representing a function call or a return value.
   The dispatcher function must then explicitly manage a call stack.

13. It is possible to model ultra-lightweight threads by representing
each thread as a simple generator which steps through the states
required to implement the functionality required of the "thread". The
"execution pointer" of such threads is advanced simply by calling the
".next()" method of the "thread"s generator-iterator. (Incidentally,
as well as being highly efficient in terms of resource consumption,
these ultra-lightweight threads offer much finer control of
thread-prioritisation, thread-creation, destruction and "collection",
etc.)

Now that I think I've got my head around it, I think I'm going to try
my hand at an example or two, which I will post to the newsgroup
(might be a few weeks, I'm kinda busy right now). The two main
interesting examples that come to mind are

1. A ultra-lightweight thread implementation of an
   asyncore/medusa/twisted style socket server.
2. A coroutine based version of something that is normally
   (relatively) resource-intensive: a series of SAX2 callbacks to a
   chain of ContentHandlers/Filters.

Lastly, I think I'm beginning to "get" continuations. Although the
examples given in Christian Tismers paper "Continuations and
Stackless Python"[1] are difficult to follow without the definition
of a continuation object (which seems to require intimate familiarity
with the Stackless implementation), I think I understand the general
principle.

And it's a principal I'm not really interested in pursuing, because I
can't see that it will make me any more productive, or my programs
more efficient (than they could be using the "coroutines" and
"weightless-threads" described above). And I can imagine that
continuation code could be a little brain-bending to write (thus
making me *less* productive %-), as this example of a while loop
(which I sort of understand) shows:

def looptest(n):
    this = continuation.current()
    k = this.update(n)
    if k:
        this(k-1)
    else:
        del this.link

But I can see the power inherent in the continuations paradigm.

Again, many thanks to all who responded to my original post.

Reading material.

[1] http://www.stackless.com/spcpaper.pdf
[2] http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-pygen.html
[3] http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pythrd.html
[4] http://tinyurl.com/dbyn
[5] http://www.tismer.com/research/stackless/coroutines.tim.peters.html

kind regards,

--
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun  3 16:23:30 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:23:30 -0600
Subject: subscript problem
In-Reply-To: <Sea1-F1145pAGmo43mm00047107@hotmail.com>; from jim_938@hotmail.com on Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 05:55:00PM +0530
References: <Sea1-F1145pAGmo43mm00047107@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20030603142330.B2017@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Jimmy verma:
  [...]
> The problem is that when i use po[first] it gives an error message saying 
> that
> 
> AttributeError: Vec instance has no attribute '__getitem__'

Is what you posted the actual code which produces this message?

If so, how are you getting a Python error message from C code?

If not, what's the real code?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I tried to be pleasant and accommodating, but my head
 began to hurt from his banality."   -- _Seven_ (1996)




From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Sat Jun 14 14:16:26 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 11:16:26 -0700
Subject: GUI
References: <3EE9E9CE.6020004@gmx.net> <87el1wfzzz.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bcfong$iknoh$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>

> Tom <llafba at gmx.net> writes:
> 
>> I heard that it is possible to program GUI's with Python. I have
>> to make some simple executable programs with a GUI. They should
>> run on Windows. Unfortunately I am not very experienced with
>> Python. That's why I would appreciate suggestions for an easy to
>> use software. :-)
> [...]
>

And, just to increase your list of options, there is also PyGTK.

Information about PyGTK is here:

    http://www.daa.com.au/~james/software/pygtk/
    http://freshmeat.net/releases/109495/

You can find out about PyGTK for MS Windows here:

    http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=all#21.1
    http://www.pcpm.ucl.ac.be/~gustin/win32_ports/

And, for several examples that create simple dialog boxes from a
Python program, you might look here:

    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/python_201/python_201.html
    (Look for the section "GUI Applications".)

Hope this helps.

  - Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From brian_l at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 20 18:53:37 2003
From: brian_l at yahoo.com (Brian Lenihan)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 15:53:37 -0700
Subject: Trying To Get Python To Run on Apache v2.0.4.6 on Windows
References: <3ef2dc20@usenet.per.paradox.net.au>
Message-ID: <afe3b146.0306201453.538c67b3@posting.google.com>

"Peter Brown" <x at x.com> wrote in message news:<3ef2dc20 at usenet.per.paradox.net.au>...

> I've been trying to get v3.0.3 of mod_python to run on the same setup as
> well and as soon as I start the server up again after modifying the
> httpd.config file, the server fails to restart.
> 
> I'm probably missing something but I've been trawling tehw eb for ages to
> try and find some decent instructions to no avail.

You didn't trawl the right spot:

http://www.modpython.org/pipermail/mod_python/2002-December/002714.html

Apache2 requires XP Service Pack 1, other than that, you shouldn't
have any troubles.



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Wed Jun 18 19:25:01 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:25:01 GMT
Subject: Windows Program?
References: <vf1roa984ou832@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbf1t6c.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:57:42 -0500, David B. wrote:
> Hello. I'm new to python and I was wondering... can you make
> windows-like programs? (Like with the gray background and the input
> boxes?)

Built-in, cross-platform, but ugly:

    <http://www.python.org/topics/tkinter/>

Much nicer, uses native widgets on *nix, Windws and (soon) MacOS, but
needs extra packages:

    <http://www.wxpython.org/>

-- 
 \     "I was married by a judge. I should have asked for a jury."  -- |
  `\                                                      Groucho Marx |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From news-and-lists at the-me.de  Thu Jun 26 11:03:11 2003
From: news-and-lists at the-me.de (Axel Bock)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:03:11 +0200
Subject: catch non-blocking socket exceptions
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.26.15.03.11.490413@the-me.de>

Hi all, 

I try to connect to several hosts at once to verify whether a certain
service is running. Now it's quite stupid to connect to one after another,
cause if I do this I'll wait forever if some hosts don't respond (at least
until TCP timeout).

But if I connect to several hosts in parallel and use polling objects I'm
stuck - I don't know how to handle exceptions: are they raised as normal?
If yes, how do I get the correspondig socket object - or file number?
If no, how do I know if a socket timed out, or refused connection, or
something similar? 


Thanks for any hints & greetings, 

		Axel.



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jun 24 09:44:33 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 08:44:33 -0500
Subject: Persist Python objects to a MySQL database?
In-Reply-To: <33803989.0306232128.6d027ebb@posting.google.com>
References: <PuNJa.4935$Hw.4242219@news2.news.adelphia.net>
        <33803989.0306232128.6d027ebb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16120.21953.731425.266058@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Miki> Hello Robert,

    >> I did a Google search (+persist +python +MySQL) and saw a few
    >> references to persisting a Python object (class instance) to a MySQL
    >> database, but nothing extensive.  Is there anything new that does
    >> this, hopefully in a relatively transparent manner?

    Miki> You can always pickle the object to a string (using pickle.dumps)
    Miki> and save it in the database. Later use pickle.loads to load it.

Also, try searching for (+object +relational +mapper +python).  One
promising hit is

    http://www.thinkware.se/cgi-bin/thinki.cgi/ObjectRelationalMappersForPython

Skip




From junk at geekabytes.net  Fri Jun  6 17:02:31 2003
From: junk at geekabytes.net (Nielson Family)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:02:31 -0600
Subject: Singleton class: what is the purpose?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.06.06.20.35.27.748072@webone.com.au>
References: <20030605111536.GA3436@nl.linux.org> <mailman.1054814890.6876.python-list@python.org> <WqSDa.1962$o%.2111148@news3.news.adelphia.net> <pan.2003.06.06.20.35.27.748072@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <3EE10167.9080809@geekabytes.net>

Simon Burton wrote:

>On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 01:49:42 +0000, Gordon Scott wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Is there any difference between the Borg and the Flyweight?  Sound like the
>>same thing.
>>
>>Gordo
>>
>>    
>>
>
>My take:
>
>A Flyweight would be an instance shared, where there are many flyweights.
>If there is only one flyweight then it's a singleton.
>
>ints (and the other immutables) are flyweights in python.
>
>Simon Burton.
>
>
>
>  
>
I've found your discussion of patterns quite interesting.

 From what I understand of the Flyweight pattern, it and the singleton 
pattern are different in the underlying strucutre.

I'm not sure it's accurate to say that one flyweight= singleton, though 
it's possible that a singleton might be used _as_ a flyweight.  In other 
words, a flyweight could also be a singleton, but it is not necessarily 
so, and a singleton could function as a flyweight, but a singleton is 
not, by definition a single flyweight.

-- Seth James Nielson





From P.Schnizer at nospam.gsi.de  Fri Jun  6 03:18:46 2003
From: P.Schnizer at nospam.gsi.de (Pierre Schnizer)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 09:18:46 +0200
Subject: Module for quasi-random sequences?
References: <1BLDa.10298$KF1.144776@amstwist00> <mailman.1054839166.2879.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87k7bzwu5l.fsf@smtp.gsi.de>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:

> 
> I just wrapped the GSL Levy distribution generating function yesterday
> to fill a Numeric array, and it wasn't hard.  I could send you some
> example code if you like.  When I get the time, I want to extend this
> code to fill Numeric arrays with most/all of the available GSL random
> number generators, because I work with arrays a lot and don't like the
> performance hit of having to repeatedly call the pygsl functions in a
> python loop.
> 
> John Hunter
Did you wrap them as a  type? I would be interested in your code too ...

Pierre



From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 13 20:14:41 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 17:14:41 -0700
Subject: insert thousands separators
References: <3EE9E548.9010701@isst.fhg.de> <yyyvfv9hpj9.fsf@adams.patriot.net>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0306131614.41726fc@posting.google.com>

Nick Vargish <nav at adams.patriot.net> wrote in message news:<yyyvfv9hpj9.fsf at adams.patriot.net>...
> Marcus Bergmann <marcus.bergmann at isst.fhg.de> writes:
> 
> > how can I insert thousands separators into an integer or a string,
> > e.g. 1000000 to 1.000.000?
> 
> You may need to modify the following to match the "integer or string"
> part of your request. commafy() here accepts and integer but returns a
> string...
[snip]
> def commafy(val):
>    """Returns a string version of val with commas every thousandth
>    place."""
>    return val < 0 and '-' + commafy(abs(val)) \
>           or val < 1000 and str(val) \
>           or commafy(val / 1000) + ',' + commafy(val % 1000)
[test function snipped]

Your testing wasn't thorough enough.

>>> commafy(12034)
'12,34'
>>> commafy(1000000)
1,0,0

Also, if Python is run with "-Qnew",

>>> commafy(1234)
1.234,234

Try this instead:

def groupThousands(val, sep=','):
   if val < 0:
      return '-' + groupThousands(-val, sep)
   if val < 1000:
      return str(val)
   return '%s%s%03d' % (groupThousands(val // 1000, sep), sep, val % 1000)



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jun  5 23:55:36 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 20:55:36 -0700
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0306051955.98a3dff@posting.google.com>

Chuck <cdreward at riaa.com> wrote in message news:<m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0 at 4ax.com>...
> I've hit a stumbling block while trying to pick up Python. I've googled
> around, and I don't think I'm the first to have this question, but I haven't
> been able to find an answer that explains things for me.
> 
> def blah(arg):
>     arg.append(3)
> 
> v = [1,2]
> 
> blah(v)
> 
> ... This gives me the impression that Python passes variables by reference (by
> a "pointer"), and the "arg" in blah is the same as "v".
> 
> But it's not, because if I say "arg = None" inside the function, "v" is
> unchanged.
> 

You don't even need to consider functions to understand what is
happening here.    Your problem is that the assignment to arg changes
what it 'points' to.  Consider the following scenario.

>>>sys.ps1 = '? '; sys.ps2 = '= ' #for those reading news on the web
? a = "hello navel"
? #create a 'reference' 'a' to the string "hello navel'
? b = a
? #'b' now 'points' to the same string
? b
'hello navel'
? b = 5
? #change where 'b' points to
? b
5
? #but 'a' still points to the string
? a
'hello navel'
? a = 'some completely different string'
? #change where 'a' points to.   The last reference to the string \
= is now gone, and the string awaits garbage collection.

Similarly in your example:  'arg' does point to the argument with
which your function was called and it does so until such time as you
tell it to point elsewhere, (as you did, when you wrote 'arg = None').



From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Sat Jun 21 22:10:59 2003
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 04:10:59 +0200
Subject: Steaming PDF from Python Script to IE
References: <4b46139c.0306211630.1aeb3ffa@posting.google.com> <3ef50e78@nntp>
Message-ID: <Xns93A22AB4B2980cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

Stephen Thorne <stephen at thorne.id.au> wrote in news:3ef50e78 at nntp:

> Nathan Treloar wrote:
> 
>> I'm trying to stream PDF content to a browser client via a python CGI
>> script using:

one addition: to keep acrobat reader plugin alive at least some time, add 
Content-Disposition: download, filename="bababa.pdf"

or 

Content-Disposition: inline, filename="bababa.pdf"






From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun 11 17:11:41 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:11:41 -0500
Subject: finding unused variables in Python code
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0306111252.61cdfa2e@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0306111252.61cdfa2e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16103.39693.506769.583065@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    beliavsky> Is there any tool to find variables in Python code that are
    beliavsky> defined but never used?

Google for pychecker.

Skip






From ree_svr at energi.fisika.net  Sat Jun 21 19:55:12 2003
From: ree_svr at energi.fisika.net (sevri oh sevri)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:55:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Executable pyhton script
Message-ID: <20030621235512.36B6644C8@sitemail.everyone.net>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20030621/3c829fea/attachment.ksh>

From dwblas at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  5 21:00:46 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (DavidW Blaschke)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:00:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: another question
Message-ID: <20030606010046.71073.qmail@web21607.mail.yahoo.com>

Replace the "|" with a space:
    new_rec = string.replace( line, "|", " " )
Might as well get rid of newlines also
    new_rec = string.replace( new_rec, "\n", " " )
Then string.strip(new_rec)
 
If you want to use string.split(new_rec), you might
want to split on the "|" and then replace it with a
space.

D.W.

> --- In python-list at yahoogroups.com, "Leeds, Mark"
> <mleeds at m...> wrote:
> > i'm sorry to bother everyone again :
> >  
> > i am a novice at python and i am
> > reading a file into memory
> > using the command
> > file.readlines.
> >  
> > the file has spaces between the elements but the
> delimiter that 
> really
> > separates
> > them  is a "|".
> >  
> > so i wrote the subroutine below.
> >  
> > def getData(file):
> >  
> >     anyFile=open(file,'r')
> >     anyStuff=anyfile.readlines()
> >     anyFile.close
> >  
> >     anydata=[]
> >  
> >     for line in anyStuff:
> >         if not line:
> >             continue
> >         line=string.strip(line)
> >         anydata.append(string.split(line))
> >     return(anydata)
> >  
> > 
>
#---------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > ------------------------------------------
> >  
> > in the main, i have
> >  
> > textfile=("xxx.dat")
> > datafile=getData(textfile))
> > print(datafile)
> >  
> > the problem is that i don't know how to get rid of
> the
> > "|" characters so these show up in the output.
> >  
> > if i use a parameter in string.split, then i will
> end up with spaces
> > which i don't want either.
> >  
> > i guess the question is how to get rid of both the
> spaces
> > and the "|" characters. 
> >  
> >                                                
> thanks.
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Jun 12 12:54:09 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:54:09 +0200
Subject: Unable to compile _tkinter.c: incompatible pointer type --> Error 1
Message-ID: <20030612165409.GA6439@nl.linux.org>

Hi,

I am unable to compile _tkinter.c. I get the following error message
(latest CVS):

$ make
gcc -pthread  -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -I. -I./Include  -DPy_BUILD_CORE  -DWITH_APPINIT -I/usr/include -I/usr/X11R6/include -DWITH_TIX -DWITH_PIL -I../Extensions/Imaging/libImaging -c ./Modules/_tkinter.c -o Modules/_tkinter.o
Modules/_tkinter.c:96:2: #error "unsupported Tcl configuration"
Modules/_tkinter.c: In function `AsObj':
Modules/_tkinter.c:947: warning: passing arg 1 of `Tcl_NewUnicodeObj' from incompatible pointer type
Modules/_tkinter.c: In function `FromObj':
Modules/_tkinter.c:1073: warning: passing arg 1 of `PyUnicodeUCS2_FromUnicode' from incompatible pointer type
make: *** [Modules/_tkinter.o] Error 1

This is the latest CVS on a clean RH9 installation. I am using
Tcl 8.3 and TK 8.3. I found something like this in the archives[0]
of python-dev, but those were only warnings. I am unable to
install the patch attached to that message: it says

Hunk #2 FAILED at 1361.
Hunk #3 FAILED at 1483.

I think the patch is too old.

What can I do to find out how to solve this problem? I find it strange
that a warning triggers an error.

BTW, I was also surprised to find out that _tkinter.c wasn't compiled and
installed by default. Any hints?

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
191. If a man, who had adopted a son and reared him, founded a
household, and had children, wish to put this adopted son out, then this
son shall not simply go his way. His adoptive father shall give him of his
wealth one-third of a child's portion, and then he may go. He shall not
give him of the field, garden, and house.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sat Jun 28 16:05:08 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:05:08 +0200
Subject: XML (fwd)
References: <mailman.1056731821.18681.python-list@python.org> <aBb/+ks/KjnV089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <bdksd3$sfs$2@main.gmane.org>

Mel Wilson wrote:

> >Add entity escaping
> >Add namespace declarations
> >Add namespace modified tags
> >Add namespace modified attributes
> [ ... ]
> >... and then you're almost there.
> >
> >What could be easier?
>
>    Thanks.  I'm making a study list for my next run through
> _XML in a Nutshell_.  DTD validation I know and handwaved
> away, the rest is on.  Namespaces particularly.  The people
> I was seeing coming to Usenet to be peeved at XML were
> dwelling on the issues I did cover.  xml.sax seems to
> have handled a lot without bothering me.

As any reasonable XML library does, of course: when processing XML,
you don't really need to care about more than elements, attributes,
and character content.  (IIRC, Sean McGrath used to talk about the
four piggies; start tags, end tags, attributes, and data)

And when producing XML, you can pick whatever subset you feel
confident using.  (usually the four piggies plus character entities).

</F>







From kp at kyborg.dk  Fri Jun 27 18:28:13 2003
From: kp at kyborg.dk (Kim Petersen)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 00:28:13 +0200
Subject: shebang strange thing...
In-Reply-To: <slrnbfo50g.17e.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
References: <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com> <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com> <bdb22c$psllg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EF933AA.C16ADFE5@alcyone.com> <bdcl1d$v43$0@216.39.172.122> <fef0a228.0306261125.62b83713@posting.google.com> <slrnbfn2eb.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <jg4ofv4n3aq4kc7toh1v22ontijkdu07hp@4ax.com> <slrnbfo50g.17e.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <3efcc4fd$0$13200$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

Ben Finney wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:46:49 +0100, Tim Rowe wrote:
> 
>>On 27 Jun 2003 09:33:23 +0950, Ben Finney wrote:
>>
>>>So, it was teletypes that needlessly preserved the CR and LF as
>>>separate control operations
>>
>>It wasn't needless.  A CR with no LF  was often used for overstriking,
>>as a way of extending the rather limited character set.  'O'
>>overstruck with '-' would make a passable \Theta, for instance..
> 
> 
> Overstriking is amply catered for with the BS (BackSpace) control code.
> For the "theta" example:  emit a 'O', emit a BS, emit a '-'.  In fact,
> this method continues today in some *roff outputs, for bold or digraph
> characters.  The CR is completely redundant for this purpose.

Although the first is correct (using BS to get the effect) it implies 
that the printer/typewriter that you want to make this effect on, is 
able to backspace _precicely_ whereas the CR method can be made simple 
and easy with a mechanical(?) stopper, that ensures that you always 
start at the same point.

> 
> I maintain that the CR and LF were needlessly preserved as separate
> operations, with no benefit.
> 


-- 
Med Venlig Hilsen / Regards

Kim Petersen - Kyborg A/S (Udvikling)
IT - Innovationshuset
Havneparken 2
7100 Vejle
Tlf. +4576408183 || Fax. +4576408188




From cdreward at riaa.com  Thu Jun  5 03:10:00 2003
From: cdreward at riaa.com (Chuck)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 07:10:00 GMT
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
Message-ID: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com>

I've hit a stumbling block while trying to pick up Python. I've googled
around, and I don't think I'm the first to have this question, but I haven't
been able to find an answer that explains things for me.

def blah(arg):
    arg.append(3)

v = [1,2]

blah(v)

... This gives me the impression that Python passes variables by reference (by
a "pointer"), and the "arg" in blah is the same as "v".

But it's not, because if I say "arg = None" inside the function, "v" is
unchanged.

Also, if I do something similar:

def blah(arg):
    arg = arg + 1

v = 1

blah(v)

I get the impression Python passes variables by copy.

*Huh?*

It seems that if you pass a mutable variable, you can change it, but only by
using it's methods, ie arg.append(), and NOT by doing an "arg = (new value)".

And if you pass an immutable variable, you can't change it at all.

This doesn't seem very intuitive, which leads me to believe I'm missing "the
big picture".

In the python tutorial, it says:

   Actually, call by object reference would be a better description,
   since if a mutable object is passed, the caller will see any changes
   the callee makes to it (items inserted into a list).

But I don't understand what "object reference" means. I'm familiar with "pass
by copy" and "by reference(pointer)" in the Pascal or C languages...

What's going on? (*grin*)


Thanks!



From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Fri Jun 20 03:59:52 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:59:52 +0100
Subject: Run a linux program through python
In-Reply-To: <bcuddk$m55$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
References: <bcuddk$m55$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <3EF2BEF8.1030205@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

Gunnar Staff wrote:

>I would like ti run a linux program through a 
>python script. Do enyone know the syntax for 
>running a OS program from python?
>
>Assume I'll run
>$ convert fromfile tofile
>
>Gunnar
>  
>

There are several ways depending on the level of 'control' however given 
your
 simple example I would say

import os

os.system("convert fromfile tofile")

Would be your best bet

HTH
Martin





From bens at replytothegroupplease.com  Mon Jun  9 15:30:36 2003
From: bens at replytothegroupplease.com (Ben S)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 20:30:36 +0100
Subject: File reading using delimiters
References: <153fa67.0306090752.218d23b1@posting.google.com> <3EE4BE74.54950D6A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bc2n79$a0v$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Without more
> information about the nature of the files and the type of scanning, I
> can't help more.
>
> -Peter

In this case, I'm reading plain ASCII text files ranging in size from
10K to maybe 1Mb, where strings are delimited with the tilde character.
But I'm asking as much about the available functionality as I am about
my particular problem. I suppose I could use read() then split() and see
how the performance works out. I'm surprised if there's nothing that
lets me read more selectively from the file though.

--
Ben Sizer
http://pages.eidosnet.co.uk/kylotan





From belred1 at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 22 13:40:57 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:40:57 GMT
Subject: Remove duplicate letters in a word
References: <mailman.1056298500.15593.python-list@python.org> <7x4r2iowhw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <JSlJa.104448$YZ2.271660@rwcrnsc53>

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:7x4r2iowhw.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> Eliran Gonen <eg at rootshell.be> writes:
> > I'm stuck here:
> >
> >     for i in range(len(key)):
> >         for j in range(len(key)):
> >             if key[i] == key[j] :
> >                 key[j] = ""
> >
> > Hope you can help me,
>
> You can't change the contents of a string in Python.  You have to
> make a new string:
>
>     temp = []
>     for c in key:
>       if c not in key2:
>          temp.append(c)
>     key = str(temp)


did you mean??

key = ''.join(temp)







From paddy3118 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT  Mon Jun 23 04:03:10 2003
From: paddy3118 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT (Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:03:10 +0100
Subject: random function with strings
References: <3ef51a51$0$8029$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net> <RurJa.7672$Kg7.5178@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <nmcdfvcn8mercm0vokhqng290vvsl74aio@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EF6B43E.3030407@blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT>


Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 00:05:05 GMT, rumours say that "Raymond Hettinger"
> <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> might have written:
> 
>>>I have a function that goes through a directory and I would like to remove
>>>randomly one of the files contained in that directory.
>>
> 
>>Giving full access rights to a secretary or new programmer
>>ought to insure an occassional random file deletion ;-)
> 
> 
> QOTW +1 :)

Never mess with THE secretary. Their judgement is final, their revenge 
severe!




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jun 10 18:55:20 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 22:55:20 GMT
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <bc5nko$4c9$0@216.39.172.122>

On 10 Jun 2003 12:25:13 GMT, Kevin Smith <Kevin.Smith at sas.com> wrote:

>I have received many comments on this proposal already and have taken 
>them into account in this proposal.  The proposed syntax is still
[...]
>    Instead of placing the decorators in front of the function name,
>    a better place might be after it, as shown below.  The word 'as' is 
>    added simply as a separator to assist in readability.  
>
>        def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
>            perform method operation
>
>    This syntax is quite clear and could probably be interpreted 
>    by those not familiar with Python.  The proposed syntax can be
>    generalized as follows: 
>
>        'def' NAME '(' PARAMETERS ')' ['as' DECORATORS] ':'
>
>    where DECORATORS is a comma-separated list of expressions, 
>    or a tuple.
>
>    Other syntaxes have been proposed in comp.lang.python.  The 
>    most common are demonstrated below.
>
>        def foo(self) [synchronized(lock), classmethod]:
>            perform method operation
>
>        def foo(self) (synchronized(lock), classmethod):
>            perform method operation
>
>        def foo(self) {'pre': synchronized(lock), 'classmethod': True}:
>            perform method operation
>
>    These three forms use syntax that just seems arbitrary and which 
>    does not help the user to comprehend the meaning of it.  In 
>    addition, since the order in which the decorators are applied 
>    may matter, the third, dictionary-style, syntax must be 
>    eliminated.
I disagree with that "must" ;-) Better to say ordering must be specified
by other means. E.g., trivially, you could add 'ordering':('pre','classmethod') to
the above dict.

IMO a list or tuple of decorator functions second-guesses the future too narrowly,
and will create an unnecessary backwards-compatibility constraint. Why not an
identifier for a class with some standard methods that are conventionally
called internally, like .decorate() ? (I'm moving forward from Skip's dict and
my previous variations on dict/dict-workalike objects ;-)

Using a class  with a general __init__(*args,**kw) parameter list will permit
defining builtins for standard decorations and creating customized/derived versions
as well. The list/tuple syntax functionality could easily be implemeted with a class
by putting the elements in the call to the constructor, e.g.,

         'def' NAME '(' PARAMETERS ')' ['as' DECORATORS_CLASS ['(' DECORATORS ')']] ':'

where standard DECORATORS could already be built in to a standard DECORATORS_CLASS,
or a parenthesized sequence could follow, but also allow keyword items. You could specify
DECORATORS exactly as you propose, but now the door would be open to future ideas of
decoration specification.
>    
>Implementation Issues
>
>    In the following example there are two function decorators: 
>    synchronized(lock) and classmethod.  
>
>        def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
>            perform method operation

         def foo(self) as DECORATORS(synchronized(lock), classmethod):
             perform method operation

where DECORATORS would be a builtin standard decoration control class for your kind
of decoration sequences.

>
>    Since these all appear within the operation of the 'def' 
>    itself, it makes sense that synchronized, lock, and 
>    classmethod must exist at the time that the definition 
>    is compiled.  In addition, each of these arguments will be
ISTM this needs clarification. Is this what you mean?

    <def foo source> -> [compile] -> <executable foo def>
    <executable foo def> -> [execute] -> <foo bound to function> # function created by execution of def
    <foo function> -> [decorate] -> <foo bound to modified function>
 
>    evaluated before being applied to the compiled function.
You must be thinking of "compiled function" as the end result of compiling AND executing a definition?
  
>    This means that arguments like synchronized(lock) must 
>    return a descriptor that will be applied to foo.  Therefore, 
>    the code above translates to:
>
>        def foo(self):
>            perform method operation
>        foo = classmethod(<returned-descriptor>(foo))
or
         def foo(self):
             perform method operation
         foo = DECORATORS(synchronized(lock), classmethod).decorate(foo)

this would allow
        USING_MY_LOCK = DECORATORS(synchronized(lock), classmethod)
        ...
        def foo(self) as USING_MY_LOCK:
            pass # foo body

translating to
        ...
        def foo(self):
            pass # foo body
        foo =  USING_MY_LOCK.decorate(foo)
>    
>    In the example above, <returned-descriptor> refers to the 
>    descriptor returned by evaluating synchronized(lock).
>
[...]
>Possible Extensions
>
>    The proposed syntax is general enough that it could be used 
>    on class definitions as well as shown below.
>
>        class foo(object) as classmodifier:
>            class definition here
>
>    However, there are no obvious parallels for use with other
>    descriptors such as property().
>
>
>Conclusion
>
>    The current method of translating an instance method to a class
>    or static method is awkward.  A new syntax for applying function
>    decorators should be implemented (proposed syntax shown below).  
>
>        def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
>            perform method operation
>
>    The proposed syntax is simple, powerful, easy to read, and 
>    therefore preserves those qualities of the Python language.

Is the syntax a frozen mod to the def syntax, or is what comes after 'as'
an arbitrary tuple expression? E.g., would the above be spellable as

	 syncmeth = (synchronized(lock), classmethod)
         def foo(self) as syncmeth:
             perform method operation

Is it reasonable to think of this mechanism as a kind of meta-classes for functions?
Is there some unification that should not be painted out of the future?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Jun  2 12:14:57 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 10:14:57 -0600
Subject: Fixed-length fields in Martel
References: <bbfbio$29u5j$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
Message-ID: <bbfstn$2mb$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>

Michael Schmit:
> Is the a way to handle fixed-length fields with Martel. The often used
> 'split-by-whitespace'-approach fails, if fields can be empty.

Do you mean my Martel, the regexp parser which generates SAX events?

You could do

field = Group("fixed_field", Re(".{10}"))
fields = Rep(field)

That would parse your whole file in groups of 10.

If you had something more complicated, like

6 characters for the field name
  - if the field name is "ATOM  " then
      1 space
      4 characters for the atom name
      6 characters * 3 for the coordinate

you could do

def fixed_width(name, size):
  return Group(name, Re("."*size))

ATOM_LINE = (Str("ATOM  ") + Str(" ") + fixed_width("name", 4) +
      fixed_width("x", 6) + fixed_width("y", 6) + fixed_width("z", 6) +
AnyEol())

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Jun 18 04:16:52 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:16:52 GMT
Subject: Newbie question concerning map functionality
References: <3ef00f1e.1122069984@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <UdVHa.105921$pR3.2320037@news1.tin.it>

Henk wrote:

> I want to use the built-in map function to speed up the following for
> loop. But I somehow fail to incorporate the unction called in the
> argument. Can somebody help me out?
> 
> for child in self.childNodes:
>     clone.appendChild(child.cloneNode(1))

I very much doubt you can use map to speed this up; map only gives a
speed-up (and a modest one) when its first argument is a function you
need to call anyway.  Adding a lambda so you can do anything but
calling a function (e.g., in order to call a method, as you're doing
here on each child) will no doubt dissipate any gain.


Alex




From http  Wed Jun  4 05:55:42 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 02:55:42 -0700
Subject: nntplib body question
References: <879Da.1139848$uT2.175876@news.easynews.com> <m3isrmh3by.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <7xhe7678dk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <E_iDa.1179012$YZ.185060@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <7xy90i2mld.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Peter Melchart" <peter at melchart.com> writes:
> > Well, you could drop the connection after you've read enough lines.
> > If it's a several megabyte message and you want just a few lines, that
> > may be a win.
> 
> that's exactly what i want to do. but when i call nntpconn.body(id) it
> retrieves the whole body. how can i cut the connection after a certain
> amount of bytes. a kind of network-callback would be nice that is called
> after reading 1K or so, so i can skip the rest after 1 read 100 lines or
> so...
> is there anything like that ?
> the thing is, that i dont want to retrieve the whole article.

According to the docs, you can pass a file-like object to
nntpcon.body(id) and it will write lines of the body to that file
object.  So maybe you can implement some class that accepts however
many lines you want and then raises an exception.

If all else fails, you can modify nntplib to do what you need.



From mjais at web.de  Fri Jun  6 09:40:45 2003
From: mjais at web.de (Markus Jais)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:40:45 +0200
Subject: Where is MySQLdb
References: <3EE098AF.9030808@sci.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <GP0Ea.5$SW.7125@news.ecrc.de>

root wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm trying to learn mysql with python, but python says it can not find
> the module. I looked at the web site of python.org, but couldn't find
> any refernce to mysql in the module index.
> 
> Thanks in advance.

google is your friend :-)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python


MySQLdb does not come with Python. you have to install
in seperately

Markus



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jun  7 20:59:58 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 17:59:58 -0700
Subject: Excuting scripts question
References: <bbtq4o$d718f$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE26F88.C86E88BB@alcyone.com> <bbu0bo$df2cq$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EE28A8E.239D781A@alcyone.com>

Ken wrote:

> Hi, I tried to run the script on IE (eg: http://192.168.0.2/test1.cgi)
> but
> it doesn't seem to load. (The script seems to load forever... but
> ordinary
> html files work)
> 
> How to fix this problem?

Presumably you're going to have to configure your HTTP server to
properly handle the script.  Since I don't run Windows, I can't help you
with that one.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Covenants without the sword are but words.
\__/  Camden



From dirk at gerrits.homeip.net  Tue Jun 17 07:39:11 2003
From: dirk at gerrits.homeip.net (Dirk Gerrits)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:39:11 +0200
Subject: "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" in Python?
In-Reply-To: <a86143fb.0306160718.75cd6216@posting.google.com>
References: <a86143fb.0306160718.75cd6216@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EEEFDDF.6060404@gerrits.homeip.net>

Peter Olsen wrote:
> Has anyone translated some of the programs in Abelson and Sussman's
> "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" from Scheme into
> Python.
> 
> Python has replace Scheme as my favorite language, but I doubt that
> anything will ever replace SICP as my favorite CS book.  I'd like to
> see the two melded, but probably I will ever have the time to do it
> myself.

As Ronald already noted, it could be done for the earlier chapters. But 
the Python grammar is a lot more complex than Scheme's. I think the 
evaluators and interpreters of the later chapters would be quite a 
challenge, and mostlikely many times larger than their Scheme counterparts.

Regards,
Dirk Gerrits






From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Fri Jun 13 20:25:39 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:25:39 -0600
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
In-Reply-To: <38ec68a6.0306121816.363ca1c@posting.google.com>; from afriere@yahoo.co.uk on Thu, Jun 12, 2003 at 07:16:15PM -0700
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com> <38ec68a6.0306051955.98a3dff@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054919354.7921.python-list@python.org> <38ec68a6.0306111750.73ac4e67@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055437744.6958.python-list@python.org> <38ec68a6.0306121816.363ca1c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030613182539.A2309@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Asun Friere:
  [...]
> Or to give a real example (as I should have done in the first place),
> this excerpt from message 11, as it looks to me:
> 
> Then try (note the space before the dot):
> >>> 1 .__hex__ <method-wrapper object at 0x007B5BD0>
> >>> 1 .__hex__()
> '0x1'

Once I found that post [1], I saw what you meant.  Line breaks are
indeed being dropped by Google's HTML production; in the original
format there's a line break there.

I made a test post [2] through Google to probe the problem a bit.
(Curiously, the "original format" of the test post is not quite
what I'd thought I'd typed into their form; there are one or two
additional leading spaces, and one or two missing.)  Unfortunately
I forgot to check whether having a non-'>' before the >>> would
help.

Time to file a bug report with Google, methinks.

[1] <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=aa25b022.0306060834.2a02db9e%40posting.google.com>

[2] <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=98b29f4e.0306131028.e6e0a0a%40posting.google.com>

-- 
Steven Taschuk                          staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Its force is immeasurable.  Even Computer cannot determine it."
                           -- _Space: 1999_ episode "Black Sun"




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 17 13:42:21 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:42:21 +0100
Subject: Newbie: Where to start with cgi?
References: <bcni8a$8tl$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <3EEF52FD.200FA8BD@hotmail.com>

Husam wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I'm trying to use python as the core infrastructure for my web site.
...
> The tutorials on the web hepls you set up things and it stops at the
> most interesting point leaving you at your own to
> find out how things are programmed in the real world.
> I will be very happy if someone can give an advice or anything helpfull.

Hi Husam,

Perhaps your request is a little too general to get good answers. 

There are so many different things that can be done through the web, so many
different technology issues, so many different security issues, that entire
bookshelves could not describe the state of the art as it is now.

I recommend that you pick one particular application, and pose your questions in
relation to that. For example, you decide that your first web project will be a
links database on site, or a blog or a moin or a wiki. Each has its own
particular requirements, in implementation terms and in security terms.

You'll find the people in c.l.p. extremely helpful, but you generally have to
know what it is that *you* are looking for. The people who are willing to help
aren't usually willing to play "20 questions" with you to find out.

Best of luck with your web projects :-)

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From laverenz at molkerei-ammerland.de  Tue Jun  3 07:27:21 2003
From: laverenz at molkerei-ammerland.de (Uwe Laverenz)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 13:27:21 +0200
Subject: Twisted
In-Reply-To: <bbc555$2hl$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>
References: <bb8pev$nqh$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <rYVBa.444$DL6.18334@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <bbc555$2hl$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <bbi0mp$ogd$1@news1.ewetel.de>

Jason Smith schrieb:

> Tahiti is not in Europe!

Not yet, but the European Union is growing very fast... ;)

scnr,
uwe




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Jun 26 13:36:51 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:36:51 -0400
Subject: Twisted article on dW
Message-ID: <z8y++kKkX4cf092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

Normally I don't bother specifically announcing my articles.  But it
seems like Twisted has become a common splinter thread on c.l.py (it is
perpetually both mystifying and enticing to us developers).

I wrote a series of articles introducing the Twisted framework for IBM
developerWorks (I've actually written 3, with one more planned).  The
first of these appears today:

    http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-twist1.html

--
 mertz@  _/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: \_\_\_\_    n o
gnosis  _/_/             Postmodern Enterprises            \_\_
.cx    _/_/                                                 \_\_  d o
      _/_/_/ IN A WORLD W/O WALLS, THERE WOULD BE NO GATES \_\_\_ z e





From dwblas at yahoo.com  Sun Jun  8 15:23:31 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (DavidW Blaschke)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:23:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tix Installation
Message-ID: <20030608192331.98147.qmail@web21607.mail.yahoo.com>

Has anyone gotten Tix to install.  If so, what did you
do?  I can live without it but it would be nice to
have access to some of the widgets.  Thanks.

D.W.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com




From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Mon Jun  9 09:47:16 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 07:47:16 -0600
Subject: signal handling oddity
In-Reply-To: <d116fbae.0306090531.5d0fd55a@posting.google.com>
References: <Tr9za.228673$pa5.224690@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <3H9za.47086$h42.8645@twister.nyc.rr.com> <Bmbza.211$Iq.22242517@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <d116fbae.0306090531.5d0fd55a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030609134716.915163335D@www.fastmail.fm>

Hi,

I have an xmlrpc server and I'd like to be able to catch control-c and
cause the server to exit.  Without any special signal code it just keeps
running and doesn't handle control-c at all.  I tried adding code to
handle SIGINT (below).  What happens now is, I control-c and nothing
happens, but when the next xmlrpc request comes through, the service
exits, running stopService.  So the control-c is caught, but only when
the next request comes through.  Anyone know why this is?

Thanks.
-Justin

[snip]
def startService():
	# Make sure we can catch a Ctl-C to shutdown the service
	signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, stopService)
	# Startup the service.  Note, we specify our own request handler so that we can handle basic auth,
	# allowing us to password protect the service.  See myxmlrpc.py for more info.
	server = SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer((config.thisServer, config.portNumber), BasicAuthXMLRPCRequestHandler)
	server.register_instance(CCService())
	server.serve_forever()

def stopService(sigNum, stackFrame):
	print "Exiting... bye bye!"
	sys.exit()

if __name__ == '__main__':
	startService()
[/snip]




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun  4 14:04:26 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 14:04:26 -0400
Subject: Iteration through a text file.
References: <1f9c7669.0306041001.e5b72ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EDE34AA.C8247DA0@engcorp.com>

marcus wrote:
> 
> Forgive "newness"
> 
> I'm pretty sure I'm missing something very basic, but don't know where
> to look.
> 
> I have a text file that a Sys Admin is using a program to generate
> (don't know the program).  It contains a list of Servers, along with
> their "System Availablity" percentages. Some Servers the program
> cannot reach, and therefore it has errors in the text file instead of
> percentages.
> 
> I am trying to loop through the text file, looking for the word
> "Server."  If I find that word, I then print out the server name (will
> write out later to another file, but for now printing shows me where
> I'm at).
> 
> Then, I want to look for the phrase "System Availablilty."  If I find
> that phrase, then I'll print out the percentage.

You might want to post simple examples of the input you expect to
find and the output you want, so we don't have to reverse engineer
your intent from the code or the summary description.



From webmaster at watchtowerDOTcom.pl  Sat Jun 21 08:29:02 2003
From: webmaster at watchtowerDOTcom.pl (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Jaros=B3aw_Zabie=B3=B3o?=)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 14:29:02 +0200
Subject: dynamic creating of class
Message-ID: <ulj8fvcs6483dh7khpl6jm6fsu26snnjv1@4ax.com>

Is there a possibility for Python to dynamic binding of class?  I can
do it in PHP but I do not know how to make the same in Python. 
Look at the following example:

#PHP:
<?php
class A {
    var $x = 'class A';
}
class B {
    var $x = 'class B';
}
$kind = 'B';
$run = new $kind(); # IT WORKS!
print $run->x;
?>

#Python:
class A:
	x = 'class A'
class B:
	x = 'class B'
kind = 'B'
run = kind() # IS DOES NOT WORK :(
print run.x



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Jun  6 17:00:15 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (dave at pythonapocrypha.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:00:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: XMLRPC Authentication
In-Reply-To: <20030606175450.CEB7032900@www.fastmail.fm>
References: <3EE0B8B8.6070602@optonline.com> <20030606160231.6470A2026F@www.fastmail.fm>
  <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061210520.21215@ns0.tbye.com> <20030606171737.0145427ED0@www.fastmail.fm>
 <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061227040.21250@ns0.tbye.com> <20030606175450.CEB7032900@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061356590.21537@ns0.tbye.com>

On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Justin Johnson wrote:

> How do you specify the login id and password required on the server side?
>  The code I'm using is similar to the following.  I'm obviously missing
> something here... :-(  Thanks for your help.
>
> # Server code
>
> import SimpleXMLRPCServer
> from ccservice import CCService # A class providing methods for remote
> use
>
> server = SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer(("somehost", 8000))
> server.register_instance(CCService())
> server.serve_forever()

Sorry for not more of a detailed answer, but subclass
SimpleXMLRPCRequestHandler and override the do_POST method sorta like
this psuedo-code

def do_POST(self):
  Look at self.headers['authorization']
  if missing or wrong:
    self.send_response(401)
    self.end_headers()
    return
  # Otherwise call original
  return SimpleXMLRPCRequestHandler.do_POST(self)

(where "missing or wrong" = do the inverse of what the client side does to
create the Authorization header)

-Dave




From news-and-lists at the-me.de  Thu Jun 26 11:45:25 2003
From: news-and-lists at the-me.de (Axel Bock)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:45:25 +0200
Subject: catch non-blocking socket exceptions
References: <pan.2003.06.26.15.03.11.490413@the-me.de> <3EFB0E6E.1DEF9B20@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.26.15.45.25.22353@the-me.de>

Am Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:17:02 -0400 schrieb Peter Hansen:

> Check out these pages for some background (especially page four on
> non-blocking sockets):
> 
>   http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/sock1.html

great link :-) i forgot about select I admit ...

> But consider just using Twisted and letting all this stuff be handled
> for you...  no sense reinventing the wheel in an area that is
> notoriously difficult to do right.

hm. twisted. yeah.
I tried it for the udp approach for the same problem, and ended up writing
the stuff by myself - the udp thing in twisted is rather ... twisted :-)
(and I do not consider the documentation/howtos/examples to be useful for
beginners in any way).

for tcp it might be worth a try ... although its really a quite simple
problem and twisted a rather large solution  :-)


thanks, 

		axel.



From tony_evershed at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Jun 20 06:54:32 2003
From: tony_evershed at yahoo.co.uk (Tony Evreshed)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:54:32 +0100
Subject: Tkinter dialog boxes
Message-ID: <bcup4n$lnv$1@batman.npl.co.uk>

I've been using the tkMessageBox in Python to create small dialogs to
instruct the user in what to do next, and I've noticed that the boxed are
alays 'on top' of the screen - that is, it's not possible to cover them with
another window.
Is there any way to do this with dialogs created in this way?
If not, how should I create dialogs that correspond to the askyesno and
showinfo dialogs but can also have other windows in top of them?

(Using Python 2.2, if it helps)


many thanks,

Anthony Evershed





From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Jun  4 07:58:56 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 13:58:56 +0200
Subject: Not getting all keys in FieldStorage (Multipart form data)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054718887.18403.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1054718887.18403.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EDDDF00.3070104@mxm.dk>

vivek kumar wrote:

>  Here is one problem I am facing while loading multipart form data. Like 
> I have code for creating form for loading images..
> 
> print '<form name="bookimage" 
> action="%s/admin/additem.py?bookid=%s&image=yes" method="post" 
> enctype="multipart/form-data">' %(environ.ENV_PATH,itemid)
> print '<font size=4>Book Cover Image : <input type="file" 
> name="book_image" size=50><br><br><input type="submit" value="Load Image">'
> print '</form>'


Here you are mixing stuff:

action="%s/admin/additem.py?bookid=%s&image=yes"

you should not pass parameters as part of the action.

Do it as a hidden field instead.

<input type="hidden" name="bookid" value="%s">

> But when I try to retrive the bookid key from FieldStorage then it 
> raises a Key error :-(. The code where I am trying to get this...

I think it is undefined what happens in this case. Most likely the 
browser ignores the parameteres in your action, and just add those from 
the form itself.

Anyway it isn't legal.


-- 

hilsen/regards Max M Rasmussen, Denmark

http://www.futureport.dk/
Fremtiden, videnskab, skeptiscisme og transhumanisme




From evan at 4-am.com  Mon Jun  9 13:13:04 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 12:13:04 -0500
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
In-Reply-To: <20030609001830.A1089@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
References: <20030609001830.A1089@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
Message-ID: <3EE4C020.70203@4-am.com>

Steven Taschuk wrote:
> Eliminating these forms of ``raise`` makes it impossible to use string
> exceptions; accordingly, this PEP also proposes the formal deprecation
> and eventual elimination of string exceptions.

Rather than eliminating string exceptions, I suggest a new (ab)use and 
semantics for them, based on my old "break '<string>', continue 
'<string>'" proposal:

1. At compile time, require "raise '<string>'" to be lexically enclosed 
by a matching "try: ... except '<string>':".

2. Treat such combinations as though they were a goto/label pair.  In 
other words, rather than invoking the exception machinery, compile the 
"raise" into a jump bytecode.

This would allow for labelled exits from a block of code.  Note that 
"raise 'foo'" without a matching "except 'foo':' is a SyntaxError, so 
this is a very localized, tame goto, and typos in the strings are highly 
likely to be caught at compile-time.

Abstracted Example:

   try:
       m = re.search(<first pattern>)
       if m:
           if <expression involving m>:
               raise 'First case'
           if <expression involving m>:
               raise 'Second case'
       m = re.search(<second pattern>)
       if m:
           if <expression involving m>:
               raise 'First case'
           if <expression involving m>:
               raise 'Second case'
       if <some other test>:
           raise 'Second case'
       return
   except 'First case':
       <handle the first case>
   except 'Second case':
       <handle the second case>
   <code common to both cases>

I've both written and encountered code that has this sort of logical 
structure, but which had to be written as some variation on:

   case = None
   m = re.search(<first pattern>)
   if m:
       if <expression involving m>:
           case = 1
       elif <expression involving m>:
           case = 2
   if case is None:
       m = re.search(<second pattern>)
       if m:
           if <expression involving m>:
               case = 1
           elif <expression involving m>:
               case = 2
   if case is None and <some other test>:
       case = 2
   if case is None:
       return
   if case == 1:
       <handle the first case>
   else:
       <handle the second case>
   <code common to both cases>

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am






From tecnic at codidoc.com  Wed Jun 18 16:20:53 2003
From: tecnic at codidoc.com (Oscar Rambla)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:20:53 -0700
Subject: How to recognize a generator function?
Message-ID: <200306181320.53622.tecnic@codidoc.com>

-Andrew. answered.
>
>How do you know what *any* function returns before you call it?

I'll try to explain me better. Supose :

# a generator-function
def f():
  a = 1
  yield a

# a kind of callback
def call( object )
  if isGeneratorfunction( object):
      g = object()
  elif Type(object) is GeneratorType:
      object.next()

call( f )

The question is the following:

def isGeneratorfunction():

   return True


My Original message was:
Hi,

I'm not been able to find a solution to the following:

How to recognize if a function is a generator function before calling it?
(Alternatives to having to inspect code for a yield or wrapping it into a
class).

Note: I refer to the function, not to the generator itself.

Thank you in advance.

-Oscar

-------------------------------------------------------





From no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid  Tue Jun 10 20:29:23 2003
From: no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid (Robert Oschler)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 00:29:23 GMT
Subject: Break line across lines (not in '[]' or '{}')?
References: <13rFa.701$Hw.897715@news2.news.adelphia.net> <vecfof6rn7t510@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <DJuFa.756$Hw.950665@news2.news.adelphia.net>

John,

Thanks, I didn't know that it was really a tuple 'underneath'.  I have no
problem with parentheses, I didn't realize I could add them.

thx

--
Robert Oschler,
Android Technologies, Inc.
http://www.androidtechnologies.com
- The home of Off-Book! (tm)
The scene memorization tool for Actors and Actresses!

"John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:vecfof6rn7t510 at news.supernews.com...
>
>
> I think the slot assignment is a garden variety tuple,
> so putting parenthesis around it should do what you want.
>
>   __slots__ = ('one', 'two',
>            'three')
>
> This is a technical detail about tuples: it's the comma that
> is significant in defining a tuple, not the parenthesis. Except in
> two cases, the parens are simply syntactic sugar. (They make
> the tuple into an expression.)
>
> If there's some reason you don't want to use parenthesis,
> use a backslash before the newline at the end of the line.
>
> John Roth
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert Oschler,
> > Android Technologies, Inc.
> > http://www.androidtechnologies.com
> > - The home of Off-Book! (tm)
> > The scene memorization tool for Actors and Actresses!
> >
> >
> >
>
>





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jun 18 00:05:11 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 00:05:11 -0400
Subject: preventing creation of instance
References: <bco6se$frs$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de> <3EEFA09F.43409D6A@engcorp.com> <yfsn0gg9qcy.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <3EEFBDB3.1D8254F0@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bcoodn$jiq$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3EEFBDB3.1D8254F0 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Alexander Schmolck wrote:
>> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
>>> I believe raising any exception in __init__ is the way to prevent
>>> the creation of the object.  I don't think you can do this with
>>> a technique that returns None, unless you are actually calling
>>> a factory function which internally attempts to create the object
>>> and catches the exception thrown, returning None if it happens.
>> 
>> >>> class Test(object):
>> ...    def __new__(cls): return None
>> ...
>> >>> Test()
>> >>>
>> 
>> see http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html#__new__
>
>D'oh!  I really ought to find a reason to learn about the
>"__new__-fangled" methods in the latest Python releases...  

OTOH, I'm pretty sure Guido would say that Pythonic practice should
stick with raising an exception in such cases.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From bh at intevation.de  Wed Jun 11 07:15:44 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 13:15:44 +0200
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bc5nko$4c9$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <6qwufsn9un.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> On 10 Jun 2003 12:25:13 GMT, Kevin Smith <Kevin.Smith at sas.com> wrote:
> 
> >        def foo(self) {'pre': synchronized(lock), 'classmethod': True}:
> >            perform method operation
> >
> >    These three forms use syntax that just seems arbitrary and which 
> >    does not help the user to comprehend the meaning of it.  In 
> >    addition, since the order in which the decorators are applied 
> >    may matter, the third, dictionary-style, syntax must be 
> >    eliminated.
> I disagree with that "must" ;-) Better to say ordering must be
> specified by other means. E.g., trivially, you could add
> 'ordering':('pre','classmethod') to the above dict.

The strings used in the dictionary seem to have special meaning,
especially the "classmethod" in the example above. Who defines that
meaning and how do add new strings with new meanings?

I think the dict like syntax if used for anything at all should be used
for function attributes and not decorators so that instead of 

def foo(self):
    pass

foo.my_attr = "bar"

I could write

def foo(self) {"my_attr": "bar"}:
    pass


But then again with decorators I might just as well write

def foo(self) as attributed(my_attr = "bar"):
    pass

with attributed defined as e.g.

def attributed(**kw):
    def add_attrs(f):
        for key, value in kw.items():
            setattr(f, key, value)
    return add_attrs


> Using a class with a general __init__(*args,**kw) parameter list will
> permit defining builtins for standard decorations and creating
> customized/derived versions as well. The list/tuple syntax
> functionality could easily be implemeted with a class by putting the
> elements in the call to the constructor, e.g.,
> 
>          'def' NAME '(' PARAMETERS ')' ['as' DECORATORS_CLASS ['(' DECORATORS ')']] ':'
> 
> where standard DECORATORS could already be built in to a standard
> DECORATORS_CLASS, or a parenthesized sequence could follow, but also
> allow keyword items. You could specify DECORATORS exactly as you
> propose, but now the door would be open to future ideas of decoration
> specification.

There's no need to add special syntax for this class based approach. The
'as' version which allows arbitrary expressions supports this already.


> >        def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
> >            perform method operation
> 
>          def foo(self) as DECORATORS(synchronized(lock), classmethod):
>              perform method operation
> 
> where DECORATORS would be a builtin standard decoration control class
> for your kind of decoration sequences.

You can easily implement DECORATORS yourself with the 'as' version as is
if you want.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jun 19 06:52:21 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:52:21 +0200
Subject: Problem inserting into Postgres (PgSQL) database
In-Reply-To: <DATAPIPE-AHLQ5KAPV400004a70@datapipe-ahlq5k>
References: <DATAPIPE-AHLQ5KAPV400004a70@datapipe-ahlq5k>
Message-ID: <3EF195E5.8050909@ghaering.de>

mupeso at arc.sn wrote:
> [...]
> try:~~~
> ~handle=PgSQL.connect(database=configDB, host=configHost, user=configUser, 
> password=configPasswd)
> ~
> except PgSQL.OperationalError, e:
> ~print 'Erreur.'
> 
> sql= "insert into radcheck2 (uid,login,passwd,shell,homedir,domain_name,acc_ex
> pired) values ("+str(uid) +",'"+login+"','"+passwd+"','"+shell+"','"+homedir+"
> ','"+dom_name+"','n')"
> 
> try:
> ~xcursor = handle.cursor()~~~
> ~result= xcursor.execute(sql)~~~~
> ~handle.commit()
>         xcursor.close()
> except PgSQL.OperationalError, e:
> ~print 'ERROR'

First, like Sean said already, without a .commit() you won't see 
anything outside the current transaction, that's connected to the 
database connection you did the insert in.

Second, your style of constructing SQL is a bad one. Use the DB-API way 
of quoting the various datatypes instead:

#v+
sql= """INSERT INTO RADCHECK2
         (UID, LOGIN, PASSWD, SHELL, HOMEDIR, DOMAIN_NAME, ACC_EXPIRED)
          VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s)""""

cursor.execute(sql, (uid, login, passwd, shell, homedir, dom_name, 'n'))
#v-

The way you're constructing your SQL statement now is a security 
vulnerability if any of the fields can come from an untrusted source.

-- Gerhard




From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Mon Jun  9 13:38:17 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 17:38:17 GMT
Subject: reading/writing files in windows
References: <6bd9f01b.0306090825.37845495@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <dC3Fa.54382$4_1.14115996@twister.nyc.rr.com>

I am exploring a possibility of having a c++ module write files in pickle
format to be later processed with python. How difficult is this to do?
(let's say all I need to write are some string-to-in-list dictionaries). Is
there a project to do this somewhere?

thanx,

--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]


"sameer" <sameer_ at email.com> wrote in message
news:6bd9f01b.0306090825.37845495 at posting.google.com...
> I create files in windows using python.  I have tried using \n and
> \r\n as the return character and they both work fine.  It's when I
> move a text file, written by my python program, across a network, open
> the file and save to it that all the text becomes jumbled up, and all
> return characters are lost.  How can I make it so this doesn't happen?





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  9 03:31:49 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 01:31:49 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <l1d6hng389.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>; from ed@membled.com on Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 07:43:50AM +0100
References: <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3he71hk52.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1u1b1h908.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3brx9xepd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1k7bwhnv5.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m33cikw4a0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1d6hng389.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <20030609013149.B1181@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ed Avis:
> martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) writes:
  [...]
> >Elsewhere in the thread I have said that this interpretation is
> >incorrect: a simple_stmt always ends with a NEWLINE, something which
> >you apparently don't want.
> 
> And yet elsewhere I have replied citing the definition of simple_stmt
> from <http://python.org/doc/current/ref/grammar.txt>, which seems to
> show that simple_stmt does not end with a NEWLINE.

Sheesh!

Language Reference:

    statement ::= stmt_list NEWLINE | compound_stmt
    stmt_list   ::= simple_stmt (";" simple_stmt)* [";"]
    simple_stmt ::= expression_stmt | assert_stmt ...

No NEWLINE in simple_stmt, like Ed says.

Grammar/Grammar:

    stmt: simple_stmt | compound_stmt
    simple_stmt: small_stmt (';' small_stmt)* [';'] NEWLINE
    small_stmt: expr_stmt | print_stmt ...

NEWLINE in simple_stmt, like Martin says.

Using the terms and syntax of Grammar/Grammar, Ed's proposal was
to replace

    lambdef: 'lambda' [varargslist] ':' test

with

    lambdef: 'lambda' [varargslist] ':' small_stmt

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                7\ 7'Z {&~         .
staschuk at telusplanet.net                        Y r          --/hG-
                                            (__/ )_             1^1`




From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Jun 12 11:15:50 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:15:50 -0400
Subject: Looking for the greatest negative float value
References: <bc7lvb$gm3$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>
 <Yr55+ks/KTSM089yn@the-wire.com>
 <ad052e5c.0306112101.4e9f123@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <mkJ6+ks/KTCC089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <ad052e5c.0306112101.4e9f123 at posting.google.com>,
danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop) wrote:
>mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) wrote in message news:<Yr55+ks/KTSM089yn at the-wire.com>...
>> In article <bc7lvb$gm3$1 at news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>,
>> "Gilles Lenfant" <glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >I need the same as...
>> >
>> >import sys
>> >negmaxint = - sys.maxint -1
>> >
>> >... but for float data
>[snip]
>> -1.7976931348623157e+308
>>
>> and that last number seems credible.
>
>Close.  The exact value, per the IEEE 754 standard, is -(2 ** 1024 - 2
>** 972), or -1.7976931348623155e+308.  How did you get a *higher*
>magnitude?

   I didn't get it, it was the code I posted.  Maybe we
should look at repr.

        Regards.        Mel.



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun 26 10:41:47 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:41:47 -0400
Subject: Is it possible to write a Audio CD Player by using python only?
References: <bdespa$rku$1@news.seed.net.tw> <3EFAFAAA.8D629F66@engcorp.com> <bdevvo$s3a$1@news.seed.net.tw>
Message-ID: <3EFB062B.8642676D@engcorp.com>

MiLF wrote:
> 
> Well, I just install Python 2.2.3 and Mark Hammond's Python Extensions on my
> w2k, I want to write a cross-plateform audio CD player. Is it enough to
> write a Audio CD player?

"Mark Hammond's Python Extensions" are actually "Mark Hammond's Win32
Python Extensions", so if you're looking for "cross-platform" I'm not
sure why you'd be starting with that.

Anyway, have you look at the link I gave you yet?  Go look at the link 
I gave you...  If that doesn't help, do a few searches using Google and
things like "python audio CD" or whatever...

-Peter



From richardd at hmgcc.gov.uk  Mon Jun  2 08:27:03 2003
From: richardd at hmgcc.gov.uk (Richard)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:27:03 +0100
Subject: Listing only directories?
References: <3edb2094$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <3edb4298$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>

Hi All,

Thanks for all of your help guys!

Richard





From xpm4senn001 at sneakemail.com  Mon Jun 23 20:01:50 2003
From: xpm4senn001 at sneakemail.com (John Fitzsimons)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:01:50 +1000
Subject: Grepping with Python - script/prog required.
Message-ID: <ll4ffv4klfjcs294nqdrsea1h4o4f9vunj@4ax.com>

Hi,

I want to search an ordered text file and list web links such as :

Input like ;

A 
Folder
Freeware
ftp://ftp.eunet.bg/pub/simtelnet
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq
Keywords:
Personal
Reach
Site
stuff
Toolbar
www.fourmilab.ch/annoyance-filter/

and Output like ;

ftp://ftp.eunet.bg/pub/simtelnet
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq
www.fourmilab.ch/annoyance-filter/

Can anyone suggest the code and/or a python program/script I could
adapt to do this please ?


Regards, John.




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun 10 18:04:19 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:04:19 -0600
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
In-Reply-To: <6qn0gp23kr.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>; from bh@intevation.de on Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 08:24:36PM +0200
References: <mailman.1055139135.30925.python-list@python.org> <6qptlnux3w.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055177065.4464.python-list@python.org> <6qfzmjumq7.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055185158.5625.python-list@python.org> <6qbrx7uh2u.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055197158.4087.python-list@python.org> <6q3cii2ude.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055258495.22269.python-list@python.org> <6qn0gp23kr.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <20030610160419.A1111@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Bernhard Herzog:
> Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:
  [issuing warnings for use of sys.exc_{type, value, traceback}]
> > I agree entirely, but I don't see how such warnings could be
> > implemented.  How can you hook into access of specific globals?
> 
> exc_* are not globals, they're attributes of the sys module.

What's the difference between globals and module attributes?

> What you could do, I think, is turn sys into an instance of a subclass
> of module and make exc_traceback and friends properties in that new
> subclass whose get functions simply return the appropriate value from
> sys.exc_info(). That would actually solve the bug wrt. threading and the
> get function could also issue a warning.

That seems plausible -- though Guido recently reiterated on py-dev
his dislike of the idea of class-like attribute access for
modules.  In his words: "When you want a class, use one. :-)".

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                 o- @
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      7O   )
                                                               "  (




From Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com  Wed Jun  4 09:59:49 2003
From: Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com (POYEN OP Olivier (DCL))
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:59:49 +0200
Subject: a wierd parameter passing behavior
Message-ID: <8963D6370B323E4AA3241200F0EAF7318C0ED9@FCEXVEXM002.dcl.int.dexwired.net>



> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Torvo Sollazzo [mailto:mpradella at yahoo.it]
> Envoy? : mercredi 4 juin 2003 15:30
> ? : python-list at python.org
> Objet : a wierd parameter passing behavior
> 
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I found a strange parameter passing behavior in Python (v. 2.2.2).
> Look at this piece of code:


One mutates l in place, while the other affect a new local variable : 



> def p(l) :
>     l += [3]
>     l[0] = 2
> 

Here, you change a mutable object in place (ensured byt the += stuff) 


> def p1(l) :
>     l = l + [3]
>     l[0] = 2
> 


Here you create a local variable l, assigning the value l+[3] to it. Then you change this local variable first element.
But outside the scope of the p1 function, this "new" l does not exists, ence l is still [1]

On the contrary, since list are mutable objects in python, if you change list *in place* with l.__iadd__(stuff) (or l += stuff), it change l without creating a new one, a local one.


> def f() :
>     l = [1]
>     p(l)
>     print l
>     l = [1]
>     p1(l)
>     print l
> 
> If I call f(), I obtain the following results:
> [2,3]
> [1]
> Why p1() is different from p()? The list l should be passed by
> reference in both cases, while it seems that "l = l + [3]" creates a
> new local variable, also called l.

> 
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jun 10 12:23:44 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:23:44 -0400
Subject: Call a Python file with parameters
References: <mailman.1055235859.10994.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8BWdnUqLRZiEm3ujXTWcqA@comcast.com>

"W Isaac Carroll" <icarroll at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1055235859.10994.python-list at python.org...
> So you're trying to avoid the overhead of executing a def statement
to
> build the function? If the files have already been compiled by the
time
> you retrieve them from the database, the only thing that the import
> statement has to do is load the .pyc and bind the name. Were you
> assuming that the function would have to be executed twice (once to
> create it, once to call it)?

You can't execute a function before it is created ;-)  You do have to
execute a def statement to get a function object.  This occurs for
top-level def when the module is imported.  If a .pyc is saved (and
reused) then (I'm sure) the compiled body of the function is saved in
bytecode form, so that regenerating the function is rather quick.

Terry J. Reedy





From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Jun 27 16:45:02 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:45:02 -0500
Subject: ICA - Independent Component Analysis
In-Reply-To: <1056744790.1169.6.camel@emilio> (Tim Churches's message of "28
 Jun 2003 06:13:10 +1000")
References: <m2vfurtogf.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<1056744790.1169.6.camel@emilio>
Message-ID: <m2ptkzs10x.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Churches <tchur at optushome.com.au> writes:

    Tim> There is a fastICA library for R (a free statistical analysis
    Tim> environment) which does ICA and projection pursuit - see
    Tim> http://cran.r-project.org/src/contrib/PACKAGES.html#fastICA

    Tim> If you want to access it from Python, try Walter Moreira's
    Tim> excellent RPy module (see http://rpy.sf.net) which embeds R
    Tim> within your Python interpreter and provides an incredibly
    Tim> smooth interface between the two (including the ability to
    Tim> directly pass NumPy arrays to and from R).  --


Great -- that looks perfect.  I am confused about one thing.  It
appears that fastica is an extension module that is not part of the
src I downloaded.  If I install the extension, will I have to modify
rpy to use it from python, or is there some procedure so that this
will happen automagically?

Thanks,
John Hunter




From jason_nospam at oes.co.th  Sun Jun  1 00:14:16 2003
From: jason_nospam at oes.co.th (Jason Smith)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 11:14:16 +0700
Subject: Encrypting much data with AES and M2Crypto
References: <bba6nf$3f6$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> <mailman.1054388330.5901.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbbuit$ss5$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>

Heiko Wundram wrote:
> Use PyCrypto. PyCrypto contains "bare" support for several Cipher
> algorithms, including AES, and these are all implemented as stream objects

Thanks for the pointer.  I played with PyCrypto before, and I think I
remember that it was easy.  For some reason, I was under the impression
that M2Crypto was the next thing that Python was migrating toward.  I'm
glad to see more alternatives.

> Remember
> that AES has a fixed block size (8 bytes), so your input must be a
> multiple of this, so it might actually be more clever to use a true stream

I plan on using the simple technique described in Applied Cryptography,
which I explained in the first post.

One question, though.  AES has block sizes of 128, 192, and 256 bits.  I
don't see anything about 64-bit block sizes.  I'm getting this information
from here: http://www.esat.kuleuven.ac.be/~rijmen/rijndael/

Thanks again for the advice.

-- 
Jason Smith
Open Enterprise Systems
Bangkok, Thailand



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jun  8 19:25:16 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 23:25:16 GMT
Subject: program path
References: <fyvEa.17336$pK2.23786@news.indigo.ie> <3EE28ABC.7D6DB511@engcorp.com> <D0wEa.17343$pK2.23880@news.indigo.ie> <3EE2AD6E.933C6ED7@engcorp.com> <mailman.1055048954.23011.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc0gks$3ls$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 23:04:41 -0600, Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

>Quoth Peter Hansen:
>  [...]
>> scriptPath = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[0])
>
>On machines where sys.argv[0] isn't the absolute path already,
>might it not be the name-as-invoked, and thus ought to be resolved
>by scanning the $PATH (or equivalent) rather than as relative to
>the current directory?
>
ISTM the name-as-invoked is a named arg (script file name -- relative or absolute)
whose meaning is relative to the cwd of the running python interpreter instance, and
therefore should not be resolved through $PATH, unless that is what the python interpreter
does (which I don't think it does).

It might be an interesting command line option to pass to python, though, letting it do
a search according to whatever search path might make sense. I could see using the system's $PATH,
but I could also see a more limited search in the python tree. Maybe both options.

BTW, this seems to be a minor buglet:

[16:25] C:\pywk\clp>python -c "import sys,os; print os.path.realpath(sys.argv[0])"
C:\pywk\clp\-c

vs.

[16:25] C:\pywk\clp>python -u -c "import sys,os; print os.path.realpath(sys.argv[0])"
C:\pywk\clp\-c

(note that -u is excluded, as IWT -c should be).
Regards,
Bengt Richter



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Jun 22 16:32:24 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:32:24 +0200
Subject: Getting a list of an object's methods?
In-Reply-To: <bd4sst$pcteb$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de>
References: <Xns93A2DFFF69BDCfreddiethescaryeleph@203.10.110.105> <bd498r$o0ehq$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de> <yfsk7be5e5f.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <bd4sst$pcteb$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20030622203224.GB5879@nl.linux.org>

Jeremy Yallop wrote:
> Unfortunately, this isn't any better than the original idea of using
> dir(), since inspect.getmembers is implemented using dir().  As the OP
> noted, dir() isn't reliable.  For example, 'mro' isn't in int's dir(),
> although it is (the name of) a method of type and in type's __dict__.

Hm, how does readline does this? I use readline and I do get 'mro'
for an int when pressing tab:

22:31:11:2:gerrit at stopcontact:~$ python
Python 2.3b1+ (#3, Jun 19 2003, 10:34:37)
[GCC 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-5)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
  0 >>> int.
int.__abs__            int.__divmod__         int.__lshift__         int.__rand__           int.__rsub__
int.__add__            int.__doc__            int.__mod__            int.__rdiv__           int.__rtruediv__
int.__and__            int.__flags__          int.__module__         int.__rdivmod__        int.__rxor__
int.__base__           int.__float__          int.__mro__            int.__reduce__         int.__setattr__
int.__bases__          int.__floordiv__       int.__mul__            int.__reduce_ex__      int.__str__
int.__basicsize__      int.__getattribute__   int.__name__           int.__repr__           int.__sub__
int.__call__           int.__getnewargs__     int.__neg__            int.__rfloordiv__      int.__subclasses__
int.__class__          int.__hash__           int.__new__            int.__rlshift__        int.__truediv__
int.__cmp__            int.__hex__            int.__nonzero__        int.__rmod__           int.__weakrefoffset__
int.__coerce__         int.__init__           int.__oct__            int.__rmul__           int.__xor__
int.__delattr__        int.__int__            int.__or__             int.__ror__            int.mro
int.__dict__           int.__invert__         int.__pos__            int.__rpow__
int.__dictoffset__     int.__itemsize__       int.__pow__            int.__rrshift__
int.__div__            int.__long__           int.__radd__           int.__rshift__
  0 >>> readline.__file__
'/usr/local/lib/python2.3/lib-dynload/readline.so'

Readline appears to be implemented in C. Hmm...

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
255. If he sublet the man's yoke of oxen or steal the seed-corn,
planting nothing in the field, he shall be convicted, and for each one
hundred gan he shall pay sixty gur of corn.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From jafo at tummy.com  Thu Jun 19 05:53:26 2003
From: jafo at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 03:53:26 -0600
Subject: Postgresql: plpython may be removed
In-Reply-To: <16112.57458.12166.525214@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <200306181436.21252.scott_list@mischko.com> <16112.57458.12166.525214@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20030619095326.GB23876@tummy.com>

On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 04:58:10PM -0500, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>How so?  I use PostgreSQL from Python and have never heard of plpython.  I
>use psycopg which is well-supported, albeit not by the PostgreSQL folks.

For a simple example of what's being talked about here:

   CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION update_resources() RETURNS TRIGGER AS '
      rv = plpy.execute(
                  LongBoringSQLCommandHere,
         1)
      return(None)
      ' LANGUAGE 'plpython';

The above is a very simple example, because all I needed to do was to
run some SQL.  The thing is that you can't just have a regular SQL
function for a trigger action, and basically all I wanted to do was have
an SQL statement run whenever another table was updated.

You can do much more than the above, of course.  Basically, think about
moving some of you psycopg code into the database so that you can call
it as a function.  My use was one table that was the aggregate of
the values in another table, and it made sense to me to just set up a
trigger so that the other table was always up to date without my code
having to do updates in several places.

Sean
-- 
 "Science exists to lend belief to sci-fi movies."
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com, ltd. - Linux Consulting since 1995.  Qmail, Python, SysAdmin
      Back off man. I'm a scientist.   http://HackingSociety.org/




From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jun 20 20:09:30 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:09:30 -0700
Subject: Weird 'and' result...
References: <slrnbf75q5.9t.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl> <3EF39E31.F8012BE4@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3EF3A23A.5580839E@alcyone.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> I don't know the details, since the first value won't fit
> in an int, it's quietly making it a long, then treating the
> second value as "-1" and/or basically sign-extending it
> to an appropriate size to do the AND for you...
> 
> Change it to 0xffffffffL (note the L) and it works "better".
> 
> A guru will be along shortly to explain the details. :-)

Yes, that's exactly it.  Since int is signed 32 bits, 0xffffffff is a
signed -1.  Since -1 is all bits one, x & -1 == x.  If you really want
the unsigned value 0xffffffff, you need to use a long like you
suggested.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ A good indignation brings out all one's powers.
\__/  Ralph Waldo Emerson



From painlord2k at yahoo.it  Thu Jun 26 09:07:04 2003
From: painlord2k at yahoo.it (Mirco Romanato)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:07:04 GMT
Subject: Tiger Hash Function in Python
References: <y2lIa.104936$lK4.2967901@twister1.libero.it> <82bedb.u6s.ln@217.11.196.167>
Message-ID: <YdCKa.123941$lK4.3469414@twister1.libero.it>

"Tino Lange" <tl_news at nexgo.de> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:82bedb.u6s.ln at 217.11.196.167...

> I have built a tiger hashsum extension some time ago.
> I'll send you the source via seperate E-Mail.

> If you don't want to compile yoursef I can build the Cygwin 2.2.3
extension.
> Just ask ;-)

It compile perfectly with Cygwin.

Mirco




From snag at jool.po  Wed Jun 18 20:13:34 2003
From: snag at jool.po (kpop)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 01:13:34 +0100
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <qd7Ia.19019$pK2.27120@news.indigo.ie>

"John Fitzsimons" <xpm4senn001 at sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn at 4ax.com...
>
> Hi,
>
> I am totally new to python and want to do a few things and learn about
> it at the same time, so....
>
> (A) Is there a better newsgroup than this one for "newbies" ? If so
> what is it please ?
>
theres a tutor mailing list setup just for people like you
and me, that you can also access via usenet on the server
news.gmane.org. The group is called
gmane.comp.python.tutor


> (B) I am wanting to sort words (or is that strings ?) into a list from
> a clipboard and/or file input and/or....
>
> (C) To sort out the list of "unique" words/strings.
>
> Input like ;
>
> A Freeware Site - Reach Freeware
>   http://reachfreeware.itgo.com/
>   Keywords: Freeware Reach Personal Toolbar Folder
> stuff   http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Business/reuters20021130_26.html
>           http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/?form=medium
>  http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq
> www.fourmilab.ch/annoyance-filter/
>
> Output like ;
>
> A
> Folder
> Freeware
> http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Business/reuters20021130_26.html
> http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq
> http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/?form=medium
> http://reachfreeware.itgo.com/
> Keywords:
> Personal
> Reach
> Site
> stuff
> Toolbar
> www.fourmilab.ch/annoyance-filter/
>
> (D) Perhaps there is a "grep" python script that finds all http, ftp,
> www (unique ?) address' in a text file ?

theres a script that comes with python called rgrep
that you could probaly use to do that its in
D:\Python22\Tools\Scripts\rgrep.py
on my system




>
> Can anyone here suggest the correct code for any of the above and/or
> suggest where I might download a working script (program ?) to do this
> please ? On a windows '98 platform.
>
> Regards, John.
>





From alloydflanagan at attbi.com  Fri Jun 13 12:23:53 2003
From: alloydflanagan at attbi.com (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 09:23:53 -0700
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <2259b0e2.0306110926.27c4412b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055379262.15114.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0306120901.2a535e6@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055460477.3070.python-list@python.org> <bcbc8b$hf4ub$3@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <a8b7f07a.0306130823.66cce51a@posting.google.com>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com> wrote in message news:<bcbc8b$hf4ub$3 at ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>...
...
> 
> Maybe it would help if the base class parentheses
> were required in that case:
> 
>    class C()[Traced,Protected]:

I like that.

I actually consider it a wart that I can't say:
class x():
    def __init__(self):
        print "hi"

In fact I'd be just as happy to see the option to omit the parentheses
go away altogether.



From taral at taral.net  Wed Jun  4 02:20:52 2003
From: taral at taral.net (Taral)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 01:20:52 -0500
Subject: Proposed extension to file constructor
In-Reply-To: <16092.63916.83822.950537@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <20030603182813.GB1366@taral.net> <16092.63916.83822.950537@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20030604062052.GA2749@taral.net>

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 02:40:28PM -0500, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     taral> I needed to extend popen functionality, so I modified the file
>     taral> constructor to optionally take a file descriptor. It was, in my
>     taral> opinion, the minimum way to do it while preserving isinstance(x,
>     taral> file).
> 
> Where are you getting file descriptors?  What's wrong with using os.fdopen
> to wrap a file descriptor in a file object?
> 
>     fdopen(...)
>         fdopen(fd [, mode='r' [, bufsize]]) -> file_object
> 
>         Return an open file object connected to a file descriptor.

I can't subclass fdopen.

-- 
Taral <taral at taral.net>
This message is digitally signed. Please PGP encrypt mail to me.
"Most parents have better things to do with their time than take care of
their children." -- Me
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From mcherm at mcherm.com  Thu Jun  5 15:00:10 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Thu,  5 Jun 2003 12:00:10 -0700
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
Message-ID: <1054839610.3edf933aea84f@mcherm.com>

Chuck writes:
> is really saying, "b points to what a points to, which is a 'variable' with
> the value of 1, which cannot be changed (immutable)".
> 
> Is this correct?

Yes... EXACTLY.

> If so, I *think* I'm starting to "get it"...  ;-)

I'd say you *have* got it.

> So is it safe to say that variables are never "copied" when passed to a
> function in Python? No memory is ever allocated, no "second copy" is made,
> just a.. uhmm.. a "binding" to the original variable you "passed" as the
> argument?

Precisely. It's different from C and Pascal, but it's really QUITE
simple once you figure out out (and you have). The good news is
that Python isn't the only language that works this way. For instance,
Java works exactly the same way whenever operating on objects (but 
not for "primative types" -- that would be too consistant ;-).

-- Michael Chermside





From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Jun 18 00:55:14 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 00:55:14 -0400
Subject: Big dictionary manipulation
In-Reply-To: <20030617094745.557941ad.androflux@softhome.net.remove.to.reply>
References: <bckl7v$92q$1@news.onet.pl>	<bcklp1$k4g7g$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de> <20030617094745.557941ad.androflux@softhome.net.remove.to.reply>
Message-ID: <3EEFF0B2.6060300@rogers.com>

I believe you'll find zodb-hosted btrees are often much larger than 
physical memory, they certainly are not loaded into memory all at once, 
so I'd guess that Thomas was referring to such on-disk/in-database 
structures :) .

Have fun,
Mike

Jason Creighton wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:55:21 +0200
>Thomas G?ttler <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> wrote:
>  
>
>>Objects are passed by reference in python. You only get problems
>>if your structure is bigger than your physical memory. If that's the
>>case, you can have a look at BTrees.
>>    
>>
>
>LOL! BTrees can be bigger than your phsical memory? :-)
>
>Jason Creighton
>  
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From p at ulmcnett.com  Wed Jun  4 16:35:46 2003
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:35:46 -0700
Subject: Newbie Surprises (was:Re: Whre is my object ??)
In-Reply-To: <20030604121748.A3368@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
References: <bbj4p4$f8n$1@news1.ucsd.edu> <20030603175723.A2473@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus> <20030604121748.A3368@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
Message-ID: <200306041335.46515.p@ulmcnett.com>

Steven Taschuk writes:

> If you don't, please ask -- in the newsgroup, if you please, not
> in private email -- and one or more of us will probably explain
> it.  We're good that way.

> No, Python is not full of surprises, unless you come to it with a
> batch of strange ideas.

I'm new to Python, and have been lurking on this list for a while. I just 
wanted to take the opportunity to say that yes, Python is most definitely 
full of surprises. A typical session of mine will be to edit a script, 
think that what I did just couldn't work the way I wrote it ("it can't be 
this easy, but I'll try it..."), and run it for the purpose of seeing what 
the error message is. But then it just works, exactly the way I wanted it 
to! Python is structured similarly to my brainwaves or something.

I've been wanting to find an excuse to announce my presence here by asking a 
useful question. However, all my questions have either been previously 
asked and adequately answered by the good people here, or answerable by 
myself by just playing around with Python interactively.

I find Python (and the Python community) quite refreshing. Thanks to 
everyone on this list for your willingness to help us newbies - you are 
doing a great service.

-- 
Paul McNett




From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jun 18 18:09:32 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:09:32 -0700
Subject: [OT] (was: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?)
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com> <Xns939D3EC4C9004JanC@213.119.4.94> <20030617063032.612B.KLAPOTEC@nusurf.at> <Xns939DABD5AD4CJanC@213.119.4.94> <3EEF3F2B.6BA5BA72@engcorp.com> <Xns939E2E07D8A6EJanC@213.119.4.94> <3EEFD22C.93B58AE3@alcyone.com> <yyyfzm7dyne.fsf@adams.patriot.net>
Message-ID: <3EF0E31C.2341CD70@alcyone.com>

Nick Vargish wrote:

> I don't know, I kind of like the idea of a Daedelus car engine... It
> would certainly help reduce tailgating. :^)
> 
> Nick
> 
> NB. A Daedelus type spaceship uses "fusion pulses" for power, some
>     proposals use fusion bombs as a a method of generating the pulses.
>     (One presumes a lot of shielding would be involved, as well as
>     some sort of inertial damping system...)

Probably the environmental protection agencies around the world wouldn't
take too kindly to that ... :-).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The decree is the Sultan's, the mountains are ours.
\__/  Dadaloglu



From edreamleo at charter.net  Sat Jun 28 11:59:49 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 10:59:49 -0500
Subject: Distutils directory questions
Message-ID: <vfrerrib3ecp74@corp.supernews.com>

My manifest.in file works if I have entries of the form:

include subdirectory/file

However, I haven't been able to get any of the following to work:

include ../subdirectory/file
include <full path>/file
recursive-include ../subdirectory/file
recursive-include <full path>/file

The patterns are glob patterns: does this include .. as well and other path
delims?

As a result, I've had to put setup.py, manifest.in, etc in a directory that
includes all my subdirectories.  I would really rather run setup.py from a
subdirectory.

Any suggestions?

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------







From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jun  7 19:03:29 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 16:03:29 -0700
Subject: zip broken?
References: <mailman.1055020874.30206.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE26F41.7761395B@alcyone.com>

Marek "Baczek" Baczy?ski wrote:

> I found a behaviour of zip() which I don't like -- it hangs on
> infinite generators. Consider this code:

zip only works on finite sequences -- if you think about it, it has to;
it's a standalone function (i.e., not a generator itself), so it has to
finish what it's doing before it returns anything.  And since it needs
to read in the whole sequence to rearrange it, it must only work on
finite sequences.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Physics, as we know it, will be over in six months.
\__/  Max Born (1928)



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jun 24 17:41:57 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 22:41:57 +0100
Subject: parsers / lexers usable from Python and Java (and C++/C)?
Message-ID: <87brwnb1ay.fsf@pobox.com>

Are there any parser / lexer generators useable from both CPython and
Java?  I don't mind much if the Python-useable output is in Python or
C (as long as the C can be wrapped automatically, of course).  If I
could run the same source files through two different tools, that
would be just as good.

I'm aware that I could use ANTLR from Jython or perhaps Python+JPE,
but I was looking for something accessible from CPython without having
Java installed, too (speed, and ease of use direct from C++ and C
would be a bonus).  And no, I don't want to use JNI!

Failing that, do tools exist for which one could write spec. files for
lexer / parser generators that produce code useable from CPython, and
then apply some minimal tweaks and run them through another tool(s)
that generates Java code?  YAPPS for Python and ANTLR for Java,
perhaps -- anybody tried that?


John



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jun 10 08:48:15 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:48:15 -0400
Subject: PyUNO connection to OpenOffice
References: <3ee5abaa$1_2@noticias.ulpgc.es> <mailman.1055240598.28091.python-list@python.org> <3ee5c427$1_2@noticias.ulpgc.es>
Message-ID: <3EE5D38F.4A10CB70@engcorp.com>

Enrique Castro wrote:
> 
> Skip Montanaro wrote:
> > It would appear that StarOffice is not listening on port 2002.  Can you
> > telnet to that port?
> 
> No I can't. "telnet localhost" or "telnet 127.0.0.1" failed
> After a little exploration I found "telnet service
> management" under administrative tools (I am translating
> from names in spanish), and turned on the telnet service.
> Now if I do
> c:>telnet localhost , I do connect to 127.0.0.1
> But
> c:>telnet localhost:2002 (or whatever other number) fails

Under Windowws, 'telnet' takes its port argument without 
the colon separator.  Try this instead:

 telnet localhost 2002

You can also type "netstat -an" and see whether there is
anything LISTENING on port 2002, either on 127.0.0.1, your
regular address, or 0.0.0.0 (which means "any interface").

-Peter



From vald at valis.amber.eu.org  Thu Jun 26 13:59:00 2003
From: vald at valis.amber.eu.org (Brainwashed)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:59:00 +0200
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
In-Reply-To: <3efb3248.316098305@news.pa.comcast.giganews.com>
References: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com> <bde5fj$ro8to$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de> <3efb3248.316098305@news.pa.comcast.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <20030626175900.GC12627@bobas.nowytarg.pl>

On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 05:51:43PM +0000, Chuck Spears wrote:
> I have a question with regards to the sprintf style of replacing
> strings.  I have a table in my HTML with a 50% width specifier.  How
> can i get the formatter to ignore it.  For example in the example
> below how can i code the 50% to be ignored?
> 
> keep the "%s 50% %s" % ("a","b")

This problem is very similar to the one I had and wrote about it
here yesterday. By the way, thanks for help! :)
You have to use regexps or something else to replace '50%' and any
other width specifiers you don't want to be formated by % operator
with '50%%' - double % means that it will be considered as normal
'%' character by Python's formatter.

--
0x76616c64




From djc at object-craft.com.au  Sat Jun  7 06:41:52 2003
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 07 Jun 2003 20:41:52 +1000
Subject: Twisted Panglossia
References: <u65nk5x8p.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com> <mailman.1054749788.8638.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1054830612.3231.python-list@python.org> <w/43+kKkXUlb092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list@python.org> <slrnbdv8vl.ktj.ramen@lackingtalent.com> <mailman.1054853414.15340.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3el266ufj.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "David" == David Mertz <mertz at gnosis.cx> writes:

David> I tend towards polysyllabic--sometimes even
David> polyglottal--neologistic agglutinations.

A more accurate word might be "sesquipedalia".  :-)

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Jun 11 17:52:51 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:52:51 +0200
Subject: Bug in v1.5.2 Websucker GUI?
References: <7isqqi$8ki@vern.bga.com>
Message-ID: <bc88g9$2uv$1@news.hccnet.nl>

On 30 May 1999 21:06:10 -0500, dhfx at realtime.net (David Friedman)
wrote:

>   I'm running v1.5.2 on a Win95 box. I tried wsgui.py and got the
>following error message:
>  ...
>   File "C:\ ... \WSGUI.PY", line 165, in go
>     self.sucker.rootdir = os.path.dirname(
>      [  websucker.Sucker.savefilename(self.url)) ]
>   TypeError: unbound method must be called with class instance 1st arg
>
>(the part in [ ] didn't appear in the message - I added it from the code)
>
>The object-instance  self.sucker  is an instantiation of class SuckerThread,
>which is derived from class  Sucker  of the  websucker  code module. The
>SuckerThread  class includes a method  savefilename()  which overwrites
>the method in  websucker.Sucker  of the same name. Whoever coded  wsgui
>evidently wanted to use the method of the parent class, rather than the
>method of the derived class. What seems to be giving trouble is that the
>arg of  dirname()  is a class method, rather than a method of an instance
>of the class.
>
>Here's what I did: I defined a new method  savefilename1()  in  SuckerThread
>which just calls the  savefilename()  of the parent class:
>
>    def savefilename1(self, url):
>        return websucker.Sucker.savefilename(self, url)
>
>Then I changed the code at "line 165" to the following:
>
>            self.sucker.rootdir = os.path.dirname(
>                self.sucker.savefilename1(url))
>
>and now it works. Note that the arg "self" of  savefilename1()  in the line
>above is not needed, it's implicit. In fact, when I had it in, I got an
>error message that I had too many args!

Well, it's about four years later now and the specific code in
wsgui.py seems to be unchanged. I can perhaps add that it only happens
if something is entered in the directory entry box since that triggers
the traceback.

On Win98Se, Python23:

>d:\python23\pythonw -u wsgui.py
Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\PYTHON23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1337, in __call__
    return self.func(*args)
  File "wsgui.py", line 163, in go
    self.sucker.rootdir = os.path.dirname(
TypeError: unbound method savefilename() must be called with Sucker
instance as first argument (got App instance instead)
>Exit code: 0

I would be in favor of finally fixing this, unless it would result in
backwardly incompatible changes :-) 

Anton

---
nobody and ghosts from the past read comp.lang.python



From m at moshez.org  Wed Jun 25 08:16:08 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 12:16:08 -0000
Subject: newbie: good reasons for learning Python?
In-Reply-To: <bdbrpj$7rk$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <bdbrpj$7rk$1@main.gmane.org>, <3ef37a28$0$306$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <ZVLIa.468$hY1.37549@news20.bellglobal.com> <o1NIa.611$hY1.47591@news20.bellglobal.com> <JcI9+ks/KLAC089yn@the-wire.com> <I90Ka.2819$OE2.396122@news20.bellglobal.com> <3ef95a8d$0$97270$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <20030625121608.13987.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:

> > This is a bit longer but should be more "pythonic" and far easier to
> > understand:
> 
> well, you're still using the locals() hack.

It's possible to be very evil and yet not use locals():

for n in range(99,0,-1):print(lambda _=lambda n:"%s bottle"%{0:"no"}.get(n,n)+
"s"*(n!=1)+" of beer":"%(c)s%(w)s, %(c)s,\ntake one down, pass it around,\n%(b"
")s%(w)s."%dict(b=_(n-1),c=_(n),w=" on the wall"))()

(Requires Python2.3)

Note how I obey coding conventions like "do not put more than 80 characters
on a line". Also note how in this example, indentation and line-endings
are irrelevant: delete them all, put more in the middle, randomly indent --
it'll still work :) Only thing you can't do arbitrarily is add a newline
between the : and print(...

Explanation of trick: Anyone who knows scheme will recognize my usage of
something very similar to the "let" macro to work around the fact that
assignments in Python are statements.
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From nav at adams.patriot.net  Fri Jun 13 13:10:18 2003
From: nav at adams.patriot.net (Nick Vargish)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 13:10:18 -0400
Subject: insert thousands separators
References: <3EE9E548.9010701@isst.fhg.de>
Message-ID: <yyyvfv9hpj9.fsf@adams.patriot.net>

Marcus Bergmann <marcus.bergmann at isst.fhg.de> writes:

> how can I insert thousands separators into an integer or a string,
> e.g. 1000000 to 1.000.000?

You may need to modify the following to match the "integer or string"
part of your request. commafy() here accepts and integer but returns a
string...

Nick

----------------- CUT HERE ------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

#
# Algorithm from Bengt Richter
# Cleaned up a little by Nick Vargish
#

"""Return a string version of a value with commas every thousandth
place.

"""

def commafy(val):
    """Returns a string version of val with commas every thousandth
    place."""
    return val < 0 and '-' + commafy(abs(val)) \
           or val < 1000 and str(val) \
           or commafy(val / 1000) + ',' + commafy(val % 1000)

def _test_commafy():
    """Unit test for commafy() function."""
    for i in [ 1, 12, 123, 1234, 12345, 123456, 1234567, 12345678,
    123456789 ]:
        print "%12s  %12s" % (commafy(i), commafy(-i))

if __name__ == '__main__':
    _test_commafy()

----------------- CUT HERE ------------------------------

-- 
#include<stdio.h> /* SigMask 0.3 (sig.c) 19990429 PUBLIC DOMAIN "Compile Me" */
int main(c,v)char *v;{return !c?putchar(*v-1)&&main(0,v+ /* Tweaks welcomed. */
1):main(0,"Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAqbusjpu/ofu?\v\1");}  /* build: cc -o sig sig.c */






From nospam at nospam.net  Wed Jun 18 08:02:06 2003
From: nospam at nospam.net (Bobster)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:02:06 +0200
Subject: error exiting mainloop in tkinter
Message-ID: <MPG.195a731c5ff6fd74989685@news.vogel.pl>

Hi! 

I have problem exiting python/tkinter application (Python 2.2.3 + WinXP)
When I run the self.quit procedure I get windows error: 
	
The instruction at "0x77f7e22a" refernced memory at "0x00000028". The 
memory could not be "read".

Meanwhile all other actions/procedures using tkinter work perfectly.

Bobster


Below I enclos a piece of code (taken from a tkinter book) showing the 
problem.

from Tkinter import * # Interface to Tk widgets

class Application(Frame):
	def __init__(self, master=None):
		Frame.__init__(self, master)
		self.grid()
		self.createWidgets()
	def createWidgets(self):
		self.quitButton = Button ( self, text="Quit", 
command=self.quit )
		self.quitButton.grid()

app = Application() # Instantiate the application class
app.master.title("Sample application")
app.mainloop() # Wait for events



From taral at taral.net  Wed Jun  4 02:22:25 2003
From: taral at taral.net (Taral)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 01:22:25 -0500
Subject: Proposed extension to file constructor
In-Reply-To: <20030603194740.GA8136@unpythonic.net>
References: <20030603182813.GB1366@taral.net> <16092.63916.83822.950537@montanaro.dyndns.org> <20030603194740.GA8136@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <20030604062225.GB2749@taral.net>

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 02:47:41PM -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> ... but maybe this is the natural interpretation of file(i) when
> isinstance(i, int).

Yes, I considered this, but there were sufficiently persuasive arguments
against in the sourceforge bug.

> ... and maybe the natural interpretation of file(f) when isinstance(f,
> int) is file(os.dup(f.fileno())) (assuming the above file(i) behavior)

I think you meant "when isinstance(f, file)". This is possible.

> ... and maybe the natural interpretation of file("-") is sys.stdin, and
> file("-", "w") is sys.stdout.

Yuk. What if I want a file called "-"?

-- 
Taral <taral at taral.net>
This message is digitally signed. Please PGP encrypt mail to me.
"Most parents have better things to do with their time than take care of
their children." -- Me
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From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun 10 11:25:57 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:25:57 -0600
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
In-Reply-To: <20030610093205.GA2609@nl.linux.org>; from gerrit@nl.linux.org on Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 11:32:05AM +0200
References: <20030609001830.A1089@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus> <20030610093205.GA2609@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <20030610092557.G374@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Gerrit Holl:
> Steven Taschuk wrote:
> >        raise MyError()
> 
> Just curious: am I the only one who always does this and is
> accustomed to this style?

No; I too always instantiate explicitly.  But you could probably
guess that.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"What I find most baffling about that song is that it was not a hit."
                                          -- Tony Dylan Davis (CKUA)




From aleaxit at yahoo.com  Sun Jun  8 15:17:31 2003
From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 21:17:31 +0200
Subject: PyProtocols 0.9  (PEP 246)
In-Reply-To: <20030608173051.GA2943@doublegemini.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030607180620.02418c50@mail.telecommunity.com> <20030608173051.GA2943@doublegemini.com>
Message-ID: <200306082117.31372.aleaxit@yahoo.com>

On Sunday 08 June 2003 07:30 pm, Clark C. Evans wrote:
> Phillip,
>
>    If you wish to update PEP 246 to include the changes found by
>    your experience [1], I would be honored to include them and
>    add you as a co-sponsor of PEP 246.  That is, assuming Alex
>    agrees.

Absolutely!  I regret that I have not been able to devote anywhere as
much time as needed to upgrade PEP 246 and would be delighted to
have Philip as a co-author on it.


Alex





From erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr  Thu Jun  5 11:37:30 2003
From: erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr (Erhan Ekici)
Date: Thu,  5 Jun 2003 18:37:30 +0300
Subject: Newbie: How do you enable python scripts in apache server?
In-Reply-To: <3EDF5EC6.6050704@sci.kun.nl>
References: <3EDF5EC6.6050704@sci.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <1054827450.3edf63ba99cf7@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr>

Quoting Husam <husalwan at sci.kun.nl>:

> Hi,
> I have apache server running on redhat 9 and wants to run python scripts
> with it. I made a test script test.py and chmod to 777. The script sits
> in the root directory of the www-site. The script is this:

> Although the script executes properly in konsole terminal, the problem
> is when I try to execute this script in netscape like this:
> http://localhost/test.py
> 
> the script is showing as plain text.

Hello,

For Unix users: often a CGI script has to have the executable attribute set 
("chmod +x script.py") and/or have a special extension or be in a special CGI 
directory.You can try to put your CGI file in webserver cgi-bin directory.Then 
call it
http://localhost/cgi-bin/test.py

  
Erhan Ekici
?T? Uzaktan E?itim Merkezi
E-Posta : erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr
Mobil   : +90 544 6502770

www.uzem.itu.edu.tr






From exarkun at intarweb.us  Fri Jun  6 14:52:24 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:52:24 -0400
Subject: magic tricks
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0306061041.6a7b821d@posting.google.com>
References: <2259b0e2.0306061041.6a7b821d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030606185224.GA19072@meson.dyndns.org>

On Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 11:41:53AM -0700, Michele Simionato wrote:
> #<change.py>
> 
> import sys
> callerglobals=sys._getframe(1).f_globals
> 
> def a(x):
>     callerglobals['a']=x
> 
> #</change.py>
> 
> >>> import change
> >>> a=1
> >>> change.a(2)
> >>> a
> 2
> 
> This works, but the standard library explicitely warns AGAINT this kind 
> of magic tricks. Thus my question: what's the safe way of doing this 
> (BTW, what can go wrong with sys._getframe approach) ? 
> 
  This doesn't work as soon as you call change.a() from a frame where
globals() is not locals().

> In other words, I want to change a global variable of a given module by 
> invoking a different module (and I know this is not a Good Thing ;-)
> 

  One approach:

    import bar

    xGlobal = None

    def foo():
      xGlobal = bar.changeMyGlobal()

  Another is to simply -not- use globals that way.

    class FooStash:
        x = None

    def foo(stash):
        bar.changeMyStash(stash)

    def main():
        stash = FooStash()
        foo(stash)

  Hope this helps,

  Jp

-- 
"There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their
home."
                -- Ken Olson, President of DEC, World Future Society
                   Convention, 1977




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Thu Jun 26 21:13:17 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 11:03:17 +0950
Subject: How users perceive speed improvements
References: <mailman.1056619905.13226.python-list@python.org> <3EFB9D62.F9B66125@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbfn7mt.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:26:58 -0700, achrist at easystreet.com wrote:
> This is a funny thing.  IBM has done some studies

Cite, please.

> that showed that users do prefer faster programs, but only 25% faster.
> If a program runs more than 25% faster than what they are used to,
> users don't like it.

I suspect the data would show they were studying a particular class of
program, and a particular class of user; the answer would only be
relevant to that scope.

We surely couldn't conclude that, if a web server became 60% faster in
completing its tasks, or if an interactive video game's refresh speed or
startup time became 60% faster, that "users [wouldn't] like it".

So, it's necessary to see the study to know what kind of software, and
what kind of users, were being studied; only then can we make
intelligent generalisations.

-- 
 \          "I went to a fancy french restaurant called 'Deja Vu.' The |
  `\           headwaiter said, 'Don't I know you?'"  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From webmaster at watchtowerDOTcom.pl  Sat Jun 21 08:39:30 2003
From: webmaster at watchtowerDOTcom.pl (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Jaros=B3aw_Zabie=B3=B3o?=)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 14:39:30 +0200
Subject: mod_python hell in Apache/Windows XP
References: <6GTIa.32066$111.24282@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <t7k8fv4mtcju19oeu9cetos78mf2atu5ic@4ax.com>

On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:19:30 GMT, "Tim" <tim.harford at rogers.com>
wrote:

> I've read all the posts and tried just about everything. No matter what,
> Apache says it can't find the mod_python module!

Get the installer from 
	http://www.modpython.org/ and run it.

Your mod_python.so should be instaled at YourApachePath/modules

Add the follwing lin to your httpd.conf file:

	LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.so

Restart Apache. It works.




From murtaza_hakim at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  2 19:15:05 2003
From: murtaza_hakim at yahoo.com (Murtaza Hakim)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 16:15:05 -0700
Subject: Python2.3 win32all WMI not working?
Message-ID: <9c9ad528.0306021515.6aca13b0@posting.google.com>

Hi, 
  I just downloaded Python2.3b1 and win32all.  When using the Windows
Management Interface (WMI) from python2.2 everything works fine but
when using python2.3 the following traceback is generated.  Has anyone
seen this and what is the solution?

c:\nt>c:\Python23\python.exe
Python 2.3b1 (#40, Apr 25 2003, 19:06:24) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import win32com.client
>>> c = win32com.client.GetObject('winmgmts:root/cimv2')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py",
line 73, in
GetObject
    return Moniker(Pathname, clsctx)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py",
line 88, in
Moniker
    moniker, i, bindCtx = pythoncom.MkParseDisplayName(Pathname)
pywintypes.com_error: (-2147221020, 'Invalid syntax', None, None)
>>>



From theller at python.net  Fri Jun  6 02:35:05 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 08:35:05 +0200
Subject: Efficient data flow between orthogonal C extensions?
References: <slrnbdsl66.21h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no> <87el29rpmv.fsf@smtp.gsi.de> <slrnbdubsl.32h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no> <87znkwwmbg.fsf@smtp.gsi.de> <slrnbdvdlb.dfi.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no> <slrnbdvgch.la4.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <fzmnvhly.fsf@python.net>

mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) writes:

> In article <slrnbdvdlb.dfi.mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no>, Magnus Lie Hetland wrote:
> >In article <87znkwwmbg.fsf at smtp.gsi.de>, Pierre Schnizer wrote:
> >[snip]
> >>Perhaps I should have been more explicit. If I get your viewpoint correctly, I
> >>can answer: SWIG generally can do the job you described above. 
> 
> I have now written a small test, but can't make this work. (For one
> thing, it seems that SWIG has started to create .py-wrappers for the c
> modules, and that I have to give a _foo name rather than a foo name to
> distutils etc. Hm. Oh, well.)
> 
> I've written the function
> 
>   void callback(char *);
> 
> in one module and the function
> 
>   void caller(void (*callback)(char *));
> 
> in another. When I swig/compile these, import them, and try to pass
> callback as a parameter to caller, I get the following error:
> 
>   TypeError: Type error. Expected _p_f_p_char__void
> 
> What am I doing wrong?

I have no answer to this question, and haven't really followed the
thread, but I have the vague impression that ctypes could also help
here. It allows to create C callable callback functions from Python
callable objects, see the qsort example in the tutorial.

Thomas



From jarausch at skynet.be  Mon Jun 16 16:06:40 2003
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:06:40 +0200
Subject: non-implicit globals -- missing feature
Message-ID: <3eee2351$0$11585$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>

Hi,

I'm missing a feature (in many programming languages including
Python) that does not use global variables unless requested.

Is there any means in Python to catch errors like this following one?

x=1

# many many lines here

def mysub()
   # x=7   #forgot this assignment
   # ....
   anothersub(x)  # this uses the global x unfortunately
                  # how can I get an exception here ?

So I would prefer if there were an option / pragma
which say  # __no_implicit_globals__

Is there any way to get this behaviour?

Thanks for a comment

Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany




From kseehof at neuralintegrator.com  Sun Jun 22 13:01:24 2003
From: kseehof at neuralintegrator.com (Ken Seehof)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:01:24 -0700
Subject: xrange
In-Reply-To: <rwkJa.1019010$OV.1115623@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030622093330.00b256c0@pop.hurrah.com>

At 09:08 AM 6/22/2003 Sunday, Bryan wrote:
>in 2.3, what is the best way to write this:
>
>for i in xrange(100): print 'Hello'
>
>i used timeit and it seems that repeat is about 10% faster.

>timeit -s"from itertools import repeat" "for i in repeat(None, 100): pass"
>100000 loops, best of 3: 10.4 usec per loop
>
>timeit "for i in xrange(100): pass"
>100000 loops, best of 3: 11.6 usec per loop
>
>will xrange be obsoleted?  what is the best idiom for repeating a loop n
>times in 2.3 now where you don't care about the index value?
>
>thanks,
>
>bryan
>
>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

The xrange() function has other uses.  For example, xrange() can be used
when you want to loop a large number of iterations, where you -do- care about
the index, without allocating memory for a gigantic array of integers (as would
be the case of range()).

Both idioms seem fine to me.  It is extremely unlikely that the performance
difference would ever be meaningful, since you would typically have something
going on inside the loop, so the 10% difference would quickly drop below 1%.

 From an artistic point of view it bothers me somewhat (but only a little 
bit, maybe
0.014%) that there are two equally good ways to express the same thing.  Python
is supposed to provide one obvious idiom for each situation.  Are we slowing
moving in the direction of Perl?

-Ken






From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jun 24 08:18:53 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:18:53 GMT
Subject: ASP KeyboardInterrupt errors
Message-ID: <NkXJa.313877$3n5.208486@news2.central.cox.net>

[repost due to non-appearance of mailed posting]

I'm mailing the list in the hope that somebody has come up with a solution
to the occasional spurious "Keyboard Interrupt" exception that gets raised
in the ASP environment. It's a little awkward to explain to my client why
his COM server is failing this way, and the logic of the application makes
it difficult to trap the exception and repeat what's already been done.

I can't find anything with Google that makes it look like this problem is
still being addressed.

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/





From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Thu Jun 19 06:20:48 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 06:20:48 -0400
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3EF17F60.1000400@nospam.com>
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com> <LzVHa.197277$g92.4017170@news2.tin.it> <3EF17F60.1000400@nospam.com>
Message-ID: <20030619102048.GA16903@hishome.net>

On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 09:16:17AM +0000, Kendear wrote:
> I'd prefer not to rely on the newline
> separating each key value pair or any limitation
> of the white spaces...  so i tried
> the following and they seem to work fine...
> 
> >>> lst = """
> a    1            b     1000
> foo  3            foo2  2000
> bar  234          bar2  1200
> joe  321          cool  2
> """
> 
> >>> lst = lst.split()
> 
> >>> dict([(lst[i], eval(lst[i+1])) for i in range(0, len(lst), 2)])
> {'a': 1, 'bar2': 1200, 'bar': 234, 'foo': 3, 'cool': 2, 'b': 1000, 'foo2': 
> 2000, 'joe': 321}
> 
> >>> dict([(lst.pop(0), eval(lst.pop(0))) for i in range(0, len(lst), 2)])
> {'a': 1, 'bar2': 1200, 'bar': 234, 'foo': 3, 'cool': 2, 'b': 1000, 'foo2': 
> 2000, 'joe': 321}
> 
> # or the above can be
> >>> dict([(lst.pop(0), eval(lst.pop(0))) for i in range(len(lst)/2)])
> {'a': 1, 'bar2': 1200, 'bar': 234, 'foo': 3, 'cool': 2, 'b': 1000, 'foo2': 
> 2000, 'joe': 321}

This version does the splitting into pairs in one step:

>>> dict([m.groups() for m in re.finditer(r'(\S+)\s+(\S+)', lst)])
{'a': '1', 'bar2': '1200', 'bar': '234', 'foo': '3', 'cool': '2', 'b':
'1000', 'foo2': '2000', 'joe': '321'}


This one does not create any temporary lists - pairs are streamed from 
finditer through the generator function straight into the dictionary:

>>> def genpairs(s):
...    for m in re.finditer(r'(\S+)\s+(\S+)', s):
...        yield m.groups()
...
>>> dict(genpairs(lst))
{'a': '1', 'bar2': '1200', 'bar': '234', 'foo': '3', 'cool': '2', 'b':
'1000', 'foo2': '2000', 'joe': '321'}


"There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it."

;-)

    Oren





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Fri Jun  6 13:06:17 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:06:17 -0600
Subject: list.index
In-Reply-To: <bbq6n1$b8h$1@main.gmane.org>; from fredrik@pythonware.com on Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 04:01:19PM +0200
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030606154116.009ed760@pop3.zonnet.nl> <bbq6n1$b8h$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20030606110617.B336@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Fredrik Lundh:
> "delphiro" <delphiro at zonnet.nl> wrote:
> 
> > is this the easiest way to check for the existance of an item in a list?
  [...]
> the usual way to do this is:
> 
>     if self.pointmarker in self.selected_points:
>         colour = DEFAULT_SELECTED_POINT_COLOUR
> 
> you can also use "find", which does the same thing as "index" if
> successful, but returns -1 if the item is not found.

Lists don't have a .find.  (Strings do.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
Every public frenzy produces legislation purporting to address it.
                                                  (Kinsley's Law)




From cliechti at gmx.net  Tue Jun 10 17:43:19 2003
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 23:43:19 +0200
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9396F155DC093cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Kevin Smith <Kevin.Smith at sas.com> wrote in news:20030610082514442-
0400 at braeburn.themorgue.org:
> Function/Method Decorator Syntax
> --------------------------------
>         def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
>             perform method operation

what's with the [] syntax discussed here a week ago? 
it was something like:

  def foo(self) [synchronized(lock), classmethod]:

or merging with yours:

  def foo(self) as [synchronized(lock), classmethod]:

i think the use of [] is quite logic. it's a _list_ of function decorators. 
and it helps readability, at least the variants should be listed as 
alternatives in the PEP.

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>




From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Sun Jun  8 21:45:37 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:45:37 +1200
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.3999999999 ?
In-Reply-To: <bbm8aq$ld3$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
References: <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com> <mailman.1053017062.18647.python-list@python.org> <895e4ce2.0306021736.13c657a5@posting.google.com> <slrnbdo1i8.a95.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3EDC1074.CA05EC23@alcyone.com> <u60tdvcau9j1ftu7rh05bv4leioate5afn@4ax.com> <bbm8aq$ld3$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <bc0nil$e6hvs$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Andrew Dalke wrote:
> then take the diagonal to get a new number, which is 0.071...
> add one to each digit to get 0.182... and hence a construction
> of a number which is not matched to a Z+.
> 
> Only years later did I learn that that's an approximation, in that
> if the diagonal happens to have 888888888.... then the number
> generated is 99999999.... which may construct a number which
> isn't in [0, 1).

I don't think there has to be any particular system to how you
modify the digits, you just have to choose a different digit at
each position from what was there before. So you can easily
make sure the number stays between 0 and 1.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From p-abel at t-online.de  Sun Jun 22 10:40:38 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 22 Jun 2003 07:40:38 -0700
Subject: Dynamic importing
References: <533b36b0.0306212352.7c5849cb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0306220640.29d8a09b@posting.google.com>

googlenews at ols.inorganic.org (Roy S. Rapoport) wrote in message news:<533b36b0.0306212352.7c5849cb at posting.google.com>...
...
...
[snip]
> In other words, I want master to look something like:
> class master:
>   def dosomething(self, what):
>      mod = __import__(what)

I think you're quite near:

>      mod.what.do_something()

Try:   mod.do_something()
For example the following works:
>>> my_os=__import__('os')
>>> my_os.getcwd()
'C:\\PROGRA~1\\Python22\\lib\\site-packages'
>>> 
> 

> Obviously, the syntax is incorrect here, but I'm having a problem
> figuring out what the syntax should be.  My current 'best guess' is
> something like this:
> class master:
>         def dosomething(self, what):
>                 x = __import__("demo."+what)
>                 print x
> 
> What I find interesting here is that, if I understand 6.4.2 of the
> tutorial correctly, I shouldn't even need to say "demo."+what -- since
> master is in the same package as whatever what is, it should just work
> -- which means it's possible I don't quite understand everything I
> need to put in demo/__init__.py (which is currently an empty file). 

I didn't try it, but it seems to be as you said.

> Either way, the above actually gives me "<module 'demo' from
> './demo/__init__.pyc'>", so it seems that for some reason it's not
> even importing the module in question, but rather the package itself.
> 
> Allow me to helpfully summarize:  I'm clueless when it comes to the
> usage of packages and dynamic importing and function referencing. 
> What document should I read that will help me understand these
> concepts better as they work in Python?
> 
> -roy

Regards
Peter



From alloydflanagan at attbi.com  Mon Jun 16 10:35:16 2003
From: alloydflanagan at attbi.com (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 07:35:16 -0700
Subject: [General lang] how to call a parent
References: <F%0Ha.261$WW3.30765151@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>	 <20030615165309.GA24545@unpythonic.net> <mailman.1055717427.23489.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a8b7f07a.0306160635.434d775b@posting.google.com>

JOHN FABIANI <johnf at jfcomputer.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055717427.23489.python-list at python.org>...
> I never thought of keeping a linked list of the parents of an object but
> that will work.  Thanks to all for the info.  I'm also checking on the
> reserved work 'super'.  I'm reading an older book.
> 
> John
> 
I'm sensing some fundamental confusion here.  There are several common
meanings for the term "parent" of an object.

The most fundamental, and the one most posts are addressing, is that
of a parent of a class being one of its superclasses in an inheritance
relationship.  That's the type of parent to which super() applies. 
I'm not sure if Visual Foxpro supports true inheritance; if it
doesn't, the concept probably won't be clear to you.

The meaning of "parent" which is aided by keeping a linked list is
when parent refers to an object (not a class) in some form of
hierarchy of objects, such as a tree.

I've also seen "parent" used in visual environments to refer to the
container of a control.  In this case "parent" refers to an object
which may be a totally different class, and the relationship is one
where the container "owns" the control and constrains its behavior.

So what sort of "parent" are you talking about here?



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Jun 25 11:44:01 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:44:01 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question: can this snippet be optimized?
References: <3ef9ba07.117801375@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <5rjKa.527$3b.226@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

<Hedr> wrote in message news:3ef9ba07.117801375 at news.skynet.be...
> Hi Pythonians,
>
> The underlying snippet is copied from minidom.py which is in the XML
> package which I am currently using. Cloning nodes seem to take a
> considerable amount of time, hence I went looking in the code whether
> optimizations could be made.


Try applying psyco.bind() to see if you can
get a substantial speed-up.


Raymond Hettinger





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Jun  8 15:56:45 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 20:56:45 +0100
Subject: Twisted - howto transport megabytes?
References: <pan.2003.06.08.05.01.17.794849@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <3EE394FD.DC976E47@hotmail.com>

Ed Young wrote:
> 
> I am exploring Twisted for use as the basis for an
> application to application data transporter (queueing).
> 
> When receiving large messages (multiple megabytes), I can
> use the dataReceived method to get the messages piecemeal.
> Since file writes can be blocking, how can I write the
> received pieces to a file in a non-blocking fashion?

Just a quick alternative suggestion.

Are you going to find yourself copying to multiple machines, i.e. are you going
to have "failback" system involving multiple clients?

You might consider taking a look at Spread, which is designed for the specific
purposes of interconnecting *multiple* nodes on a network, using a multiple
publisher/suibscriber model

http://www.python.org/other/spread/

I think the twisted people have a module called "spread", but it is to do with
distributed objects, not the spread toolkit, which is lower-level.

Perhaps a closer fit to your requirements? Just a thought.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From tim at zope.com  Sun Jun 29 12:49:03 2003
From: tim at zope.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:49:03 -0400
Subject: ExtensionClass/Persistent and __cmp__ is tricky
In-Reply-To: <20030629022448.GH4126@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEEMEMAB.tim@zope.com>

I want to cut to the chase here (I really don't have time for more now --
sorry!):

[Tim]
>> It also doesn't make much sense to compare a Foo against an integer.

[Christian Reis]
> Maybe not, but it does work for `normal' instances. Should I raise a
> TypeError instead in my __cmp__() definition?

If I understand what you're after, you're trying to use persistent objects
as keys in BTree-based data structures.  If so, one of the other rules at

    http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/guide/node6.html

is

    Within a single btree-based data structure, use objects of a single
    type as keys.  Don't use multiple key types in a single structure.

If you want to make life predictable, stick to that rule, and then yes,
since you then *intend* that your BTree have keys of a single type, you'd be
doing yourself a huge favor by raising an exception whenever it's possible
to do so during a mixed-type comparison.

Jim took a stab at explaining what he thought was going on during mixed-type
comparisons involving ExtensionClass objects, and that explanation didn't
match all the behaviors you saw either.  So just take it as a fact that
nobody understands all the behaviors you're stumbling into when playing with
mixed-type comparisons, and avoid them instead.

> I'm unsure of the `correct' semantics here, more than anything.

Then settle for useful semantics <wink>.

> ...
> I expected consistency when comparing with basic types; sorry if I
> wasn't clear enough. However, if the correct policy is to raise a
> TypeError, that's fine (and simpler) with me.

For your app, those appear to be the useful semantics.

> ...
> It's showing to be a bit embarassing but highly enlightening
> (as all newbie things are).

To the contrary, how mixed-type comparisons work in all cases when an
ExtensionClass is involved is beyond wizards at this time.  I'll claim
without proof that how mixed-type comparisons work with Python classes is
also beyond wizard prediction in all cases:  the implementation of
comparison in Python is crushingly complicated.  Life here is easier in
Python 2.3 -- or, it would be, if 2.3 weren't also striving to be compatible
with the mass of pre-2.3 comparison rules.





From m at moshez.org  Mon Jun 16 05:57:28 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 09:57:28 -0000
Subject: Need some quick help here...
In-Reply-To: <200306152153.29188.listbox@cybereal.org>
References: <200306152153.29188.listbox@cybereal.org>
Message-ID: <20030616095728.23611.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, Zac Jensen <listbox at cybereal.org> wrote:

> I have a bit of an issue in something I'm designing.
> It's a security issue.
> Here's what happens at the point of concern.
> Arbitrary code is accepted to be run through an eval statement that looks
> like
> eval(a_repr, {'__builtins__':None})

At that point, you no longer have any security.
Really :)

> I'm looking for any example that could still cause problems, and optionaly a 
> suggested solution within the bounds of the problem.

Use your OS security. Or, alternatively, a better serialization mechanism.

PS
a_repr="[[0]*100000 for x in [0]*100000]" took enough time that I gave
up. Are you willing to have your application hang for upwards than a minute?
While consuming lots of CPU and memory? I'm not saying that this is the
worse example, I just came up with it in playing around for a minute...
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Sun Jun 29 17:47:01 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:47:01 -0700
Subject: File sharing
References: <0zxLa.156922$pR3.3597279@news1.tin.it> <3efec019$0$49098$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <bdnmkd$ugc4a$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>

Irmen de Jong wrote:

> Alex wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I want to write a "File sharing system".
>> 
>> Is posssible with socket and thread create multisuer connection
>> at the same time ?
> 
> Yes. You can use multiple sockets and a thread per connection,
> or you can use one of Python's event driven frameworks to handle
> lots of concurrent connections (Twisted, for instance).
> 
>> or is wrong my idea??
> 
> I don't know, but have a look at BitTorrent.
> That is an existing popular file sharing system written in Python.
> 
> http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent/
> 
> No need reinventing the wheel, right?

Also, you might be interested in Pyro:

    http://pyro.sourceforge.net/

Pyro claims to support remote objects.  Perhaps you could
represent files with remote objects.

OK. I admit.  It's a stretch.  But, if you want to simulate file
sharing across the *Net* ...

  - Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From member30972 at dbforums.com  Tue Jun 10 03:49:25 2003
From: member30972 at dbforums.com (suresh_vsamy)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:49:25 +0000
Subject: Problem  in Pmw ScrolledCanvas ..........
Message-ID: <2983973.1055231365@dbforums.com>

Hi,
   I am using python/tkinter/Pmw in my application. As a beginer to Pmw,
   i executed some demo programs given in "Demos" directory of Pmw. I
   could able to understand most of the programs since i am familiar
   with tkinter. Still i have some doubts in "ScrolledCanvas". The
   problem is setting sroll bar to the center of the canvas after
   scalling. I have placed some rectangles, ovals in the canvas and used
   "scale" to scall the canvas. After scalling i called
   "resizescrollregion()" and tried to place the scroll bar to the
   center (Using yview('moveto',...)). But the scroll bars are moving
   only one direction. This means, verticalscrollbar is moving "Up" and
   horizantalscroll bar is moving "Right". It is not moving to center.
   My coding is given below.


title = 'Pmw.ScrolledCanvas demonstration'
# Import Pmw from this directory tree.
import sys
sys.path[:0] = ['../../..']

import Tkinter
import Pmw

class Demo:
    def __init__(self, parent):
        # Create the ScrolledCanvas.
        self.sc = Pmw.ScrolledCanvas(parent,
                borderframe = 1,
                labelpos = 'n',
                label_text = 'ScrolledCanvas',
                usehullsize = 1,
                hull_width = 500,
                hull_height = 400,
        )

        # Create a group widget to contain the scrollmode options.
        w = Pmw.Group(parent, tag_text='Scroll mode')
        w.pack(side = 'bottom', padx = 5, pady = 5)

        hmode = Pmw.OptionMenu(w.interior(),
                labelpos = 'w',
                label_text = 'Horizontal:',
                items = ['none', 'static', 'dynamic'],
                command = self.sethscrollmode,
                menubutton_width = 8,
        )
        hmode.pack(side = 'left', padx = 5, pady = 5)
        hmode.invoke('dynamic')

        vmode = Pmw.OptionMenu(w.interior(),
                labelpos = 'w',
                label_text = 'Vertical:',
                items = ['none', 'static', 'dynamic'],
                command = self.setvscrollmode,
                menubutton_width = 8,
        )
        vmode.pack(side = 'left', padx = 5, pady = 5)
        vmode.invoke('dynamic')

        buttonBox = Pmw.ButtonBox(parent)
        buttonBox.pack(side = 'bottom')
        buttonBox.add('yview', text = 'Show\nyview', command =
        self.showYView)
        buttonBox.add('scroll', text = 'Page\ndown', command =
        self.pageDown)
        buttonBox.add('center', text = 'Center', command =
        self.centerPage)

        # Pack this last so that the buttons do not get shrunk when
        # the window is resized.
        self.sc.pack(padx = 5, pady = 5, fill = 'both', expand = 1)

        self.sc.component('canvas').bind('<1>', self.addcircle)
        self.sc.component('canvas').bind('<2>', self.scalecanvas)
        self.sc.component('canvas').bind('<3>', self.zoomout)
        testEntry = Tkinter.Entry(parent)
        self.sc.create_line(20, 20, 100, 100)
        self.sc.create_oval(100, 100, 200, 200, fill = 'green',tag =
        'oval')
        self.sc.create_rectangle("10m","10m","20m","20m",fill='blue')
        # Set the scroll region of the canvas to include all the items
        # just created.
        self.sc.resizescrollregion()

        self.colours = ('red', 'green', 'blue', 'yellow', 'cyan',
        'magenta',
                'black', 'white')
        self.oval_count = 0
        self.rand = 12345

    def zoomout(self,event):
        self.sc.scale('all',0,0,0.5,0.5)
        self.sc.resizescrollregion()

    def scalecanvas(self,event):
        self.sc.scale('all',0,0,2,2)
        self.sc.resizescrollregion()
        self.centerPage()

    def sethscrollmode(self, tag):
        self.sc.configure(hscrollmode = tag)

    def setvscrollmode(self, tag):
        self.sc.configure(vscrollmode = tag)

    def addcircle(self, event):
        x = self.sc.canvasx(event.x)
        y = self.sc.canvasy(event.y)
        width = 10 + self.random() % 100
        height = 10 + self.random() % 100
        self.sc.create_oval(
            x - width, y - height, x + width, y + height,
            fill = self.colours[self.oval_count])
        self.oval_count = (self.oval_count + 1) % len(self.colours)
        self.sc.resizescrollregion()

    #Simple random number generator.
    def random(self):
        self.rand = (self.rand * 125) % 2796203
        return self.rand

    def showYView(self):
        print self.sc.yview()

    def pageDown(self):
        self.sc.yview('scroll', 1, 'page')

    def centerPage(self):
        top, bottom = self.sc.yview()
        size = bottom - top
        middle = 0.5 - size / 2
        self.sc.yview('moveto', middle)
        left,right = self.sc.xview()
        size = right - left
         middle = 0.5 - size / 2
        self.sc.xview('moveto', middle)

######################################################################

# Create demo in root window for testing.
if __name__ == '__main__':
    root = Tkinter.Tk()
    Pmw.initialise(root, fontScheme = 'pmw1')
    root.title(title)

    exitButton = Tkinter.Button(root, text = 'Exit', command =
    root.destroy)
    exitButton.pack(side = 'bottom')
    widget = Demo(root)
    root.mainloop()


  How can i place the scroll bar to center of canvas after scalling.

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From http  Mon Jun 16 00:13:51 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 21:13:51 -0700
Subject: Large File Parsing
References: <vp1qevc3kaq554ktpf4907drfu68ju62s8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7xd6hebqww.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Robert S Shaffer <r.shaffer9 at verizon.net> writes:
> I have upto a 3 million record file to parse, remove duplicates and
> sort by size then numeric value. Is this the best way to do this in
> python. The key is the first column and the ,xx needs removed.

Your script is reasonable if you have enough memory to run it over
your input files.  If not, simplest is probably to filter

  1234567,12
  123456789012,12

into

  10,1234567,12
  15,123456789012,12

where the leading number you prepend is the length of the line.  Then
sort with the Unix sort utility (which does an external sort if the
input is big enough to need it), then filter again to remove the
prepended length.



From troy.oopsdeming at sun.com  Wed Jun  4 13:54:22 2003
From: troy.oopsdeming at sun.com (TroyD)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:54:22 -0600
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
In-Reply-To: <3ede2c5a$0$1379$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com> <bbl9ao$mnr$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> <3ede2c5a$0$1379$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <bblbof$fka$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> In article <bbl9ao$mnr$1 at trsvr.tr.unisys.com>, Reginald Blue wrote:
> 
>>Pupppy Wizzard wrote:
>>
>>>Hi. I am an old school programmer looking to modernize my skill set. I
>>>want to focus on one new language. Should I choose:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>(Yes, I know this is a troll, but I just wanted to get this in):
>>
>>Hi.  I'm an old school woodworker looking to modernize my skill set.  I want
>>to focus on one new tool.  Should I choose:
>>
>>Hammer
>>Screwdriver (phillips)
> 
> [...]
> 
> Naw.  I'd recommend either a high-end sawz-all or a nice,
> old-fashioned 6 lb sledge.  Both are universally applicable to
> all problems.
> 
I personally prefer a 12lb sledge.  They always do the job.

TroyD




From dave at psys.org  Mon Jun 16 15:50:33 2003
From: dave at psys.org (d.w. harks)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:50:33 -0500
Subject: popen2.Popen3 on Windows
In-Reply-To: <20030616160614.D0AB3343BE@www.fastmail.fm>
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <m1tpevcasprfdirat1h3mg1go5atq4vsst@4ax.com> <3eecfae8$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <v1qrev8vokng7f6bhi6dudphbpkuvjoe80@4ax.com> <20030616160614.D0AB3343BE@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20030616195033.GD20535@psys.org>

With the win32 extensions, use the win32pipe module. It provides 'safe'
win32 versions of popen, et al.

dave

In our last episode, Justin Johnson expounded thusly:
> Hi,
> 
> I need a way to run an external command, grab its output (stdout,stderr)
> and get a return status for the command.  It seems like popen2.Popen3
> (Note the upper case "P") is the way to do this, but it only works on
> unix.  Is there a way to get this info on Windows?
> 
> Thanks.
> -Justin
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
David W. Harks <dave at psys.org>  http://dwblog.psys.org




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Jun  3 10:45:18 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:45:18 -0500
Subject: How to replace the metaclasses of all the classes imported
In-Reply-To: <ba1e306f.0306030627.4e88996a@posting.google.com>
References: <ba1e306f.0306030627.4e88996a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030603144515.GC4765@unpythonic.net>

I'll assume there's a function called 'set_metaclass(klass, new_meta)'
that does what you want and returns the new class.  Also, you must pass
in the right globals() or add the machinery to find the caller's global
namespace. 

def import_with_metaclass_nonnested(module, names, new_meta, globals):
    module_name = module.__name__
    for item in names:
        klass = getattr(module, item)
        if not hasattr(klass, "__bases__"): continue
        if klass.__module__ != module_name: continue
        newklass = set_metaclass(klass, new_meta)
        setattr(globals, item, newklass)

Of course, I would consider it an implementation detail whether a class
documented as being from foomodule actually has __module__="foomodule".
For instance, it might come from foomodule.internal_submodule, or from
_foomodule, or from thirdparty_speedup_package.

I'm also not sure if the '__bases__' test for being a class is the right
test.  The gnosis tools might have a better test that you could use
instead.

Jeff




From yweng at cs.uoregon.edu  Thu Jun 12 21:47:42 2003
From: yweng at cs.uoregon.edu (Yan Weng)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:47:42 -0700
Subject: Documentation Tool & UML
References: <a35b36be.0306120912.40bf916f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bcbb1j$ho7$1@pith.uoregon.edu>

> What is the best tool to build a API reference for a python program ?
You can find some here. http://py.vaults.ca/apyllo.py?i=89719354
You need to find out which one is most suitable for you.

> And is there a tool available that can generate python code from an UML ?
I am curious about this, too. :)
http://pyut.sourceforge.net/ said they were on the way. But I am not sure
their current status.

A much easier way is getting a java based UML tools and using javacc + its
python script to generate python code. But you have to know java before you
do this.


--
Yan Weng
yweng at cs.uoregon.edu
http://www.cs.uoregon.edu/~yweng/






From alf at fayauffre.org  Wed Jun 18 13:45:11 2003
From: alf at fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:45:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.1.2
References: <slrnbf126d.67u.alf@largo.fayauffre.org> <6q1xxrpcu0.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbf1996.6la.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>

Bernhard Herzog a ?crit :

> The feature I would like to see most in such a tool would be that it
> doesn't try to execute the code it's checking. Just like pychecker,
> pylint imports the modules it checks, unfortunately, even though it does
> seem to be using some kind of parser for python code from
> logilab.common. I haven't investigated it in more detail, though.

Yes, pylint imports your modules. 

> 
> 
> Two things I noticed:
> 
>  - You may want to indicate that it requires Python 2.2 (the default
>    python version on my system was 2.1 which gave an error because the
>    tokenize module doesn't have the generate_tokens function in 2.1)

Thanks for the notice. We'll try to fix it, or update the dependencies
if we're not able to get around that. 

>  - It incorrectly says that "C" is not a valid class name in the
>    following class statement:
> 
>    class C:
>        pass

This is part of the coding standard checking part in pylint. In our
mind, having one letter identifiers is not a good thing, and therefore
pylint generates a warning when it meets one. 

This behaviour can be customized though. 

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations



From rochkind at basepath.com  Sat Jun 21 21:23:13 2003
From: rochkind at basepath.com (Marc Rochkind)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:23:13 -0600
Subject: Choosing between two Jython books...
Message-ID: <oprq494znqojfyi9@den.news.speakeasy.net>

I'm a very experienced programmer who knows both Python and Java, and I 
thought I'd buy just one book on Jython, which sounds like something I'd 
like to use.

Which should I get:

	Jython Essentials (Pedroni & Rappin)

or

	Jython for Java Programmers (Bill & Bill)

I'm mainly interested in completeness and rigor... don't need a tutorial 
approach.

--Marc




From ulope at gmx.de  Thu Jun  5 12:19:53 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:19:53 +0200
Subject: Loop over list of pairs
References: <bbnjsu$bb260$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bbnqj9$bimko$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>

"Thomas G?ttler" <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bbnjsu$bb260$1 at ID-63505.news.dfncis.de...
> Hi!
>
> What is the prefered way of loop over
> a list like this?
>  mylist=[1, "one", 2, "two", 3, "three"]
>

Better use dictionaries:

{1:'one', 2:'two', 3:'three'}

or lists of lists:

[[1,'one'], [2,'two'], [3,'three']]


Ciao Ulrich





From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Jun  3 14:43:27 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:43:27 -0500 
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304F35B0C@mail.hebmex.com>

> 
> Batista, Facundo wrote:
> > "b = 1" does not return 1, just returns b. a and b are the 
> > same object now (they are not just equal, they are the very same).
> 
> if b = 1 returns b, then why can't you say  a = (b = 1)  ?
>

Don't "think in another language", think in Python.

"b=1" returns nothing, because it's a statement, not
an expression.  It's easy to see with eval(), which
is used to evaluate expressions and it returns it's
result:

Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> eval("1")
1
>>> eval("b=1")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in ?
    eval("b=1")
  File "<string>", line 1
    b=1
     ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax


So, as you can see, "b=1" is not an expression that
"returns" b, it's a statement that assigns to the
name "b" a reference to the int() object "1".

When the compiler sees "a = b = 1", what it does is
multiple assignments of the same object (after the
last "=") to all the names it finds.


HTH.

-gca
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jun 18 12:42:37 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 09:42:37 -0700
Subject: Definition of Aspect Oriented Programming
References: <cb7ba330.0306171854.53378bcf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306180842.5521e8f5@posting.google.com>

aeze616 at cse.unsw.edu.au (anson) wrote in message news:<cb7ba330.0306171854.53378bcf at posting.google.com>...
> Dear sir,
> 
>     What is aspect oriented programming? I read a little bit about
> AspectJ. It seems to me that its like...some kinda, new syntax that
> ain't related to the original Java language. How do it work in
> general?
> 
> regards,
> 
> zeallous

Dunno, but maybe this reference could be helpful to you:

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/j-aspectj/

                Michele



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun  2 08:57:56 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 08:57:56 -0400
Subject: [OT] Re: PEP263 (Specifying encoding) and bytecode strings
References: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1301798B7F@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz> <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1318CE58@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz> <mailman.1052192229.6605.python-list@python.org> <3ED7CB2C.B8DAAF7A@bga.com>
Message-ID: <3EDB49D4.CDE0811C@engcorp.com>

"Curtis W. Rendon" wrote:
> 
> Steven Taschuk wrote:
> >...
> > word's meaning will be shifting again shortly, as an unintended
> > consequence of certain PSU activities.  The new meaning will be
> 
> OK, I get that PSU is like Star Trek's Temporal Police, but what is the
> meaning of the accro#@&^$!
> 
> --carrier lost--
> 
> --
> Curtis W. Rendon -- mithra at bga.com
>                     www.realtime.net/~mithra    uce at ftc.gov
> 
> A long memory is the most subversive idea in America.
> 
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GCS d? s+: a+ C++++ UB++++ P+++ L- E- W++ N++ o+ K--- w---
> O+++ M-- V PS+++ PE- Y++ PGP++ 5+++ X-- R* tv b+++ DI++++ D---
> G+ e* h+ r y++ S at H:2600 at 65409
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
> 
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---


The effect of "--carrier lost--" is itself largely lost because of
the massive signature... (left intact for reference).  ;-)



From stowasser.h at idowa.de  Fri Jun 27 11:21:59 2003
From: stowasser.h at idowa.de (Harald Stowasser)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:21:59 +0200
Subject: OT: RfD for German Newsgroup:  de.comp.lang.python
Message-ID: <bdhnmq$so8vb$1@ID-1025.news.dfncis.de>

Hello,

I need support. Are here any german users? Because I want to write a RfD
(Request for Discussion) to create the new Newsgroup de.comp.lang.python.

I'd also like to know, if you would change to de.comp.lang.python.

---------
Hallo,

ich brauche eure Hilfe. Sind hier User aus Deutschland? Ich m?chte einen
RfD schreiben damit die Newsgroup de.comp.lang.python erstellt wird.

W?rdet ihr zu de.comp.lang.python wechseln, wenn es diese Newsgroup
geben w?rde?

-- 
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d--- s+:+ a C++++ UL+++ P--- L+++ E+ W+++ N++ o+++ K- w+++
O-- M-- V-- PS++ PE-- Y+ PGP++ t++ 5 X- R+++ tv- b+++ DI+++ D+++
G e++ h r++ y+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------




From gh at ghaering.de  Sat Jun 28 12:53:44 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 18:53:44 +0200
Subject: Login Script
In-Reply-To: <37hrfvgmdq390jc3iubr41iq7rruadd9ip@4ax.com>
References: <issqfv87sfm140ug0ocq716b6kj3j15ggv@4ax.com> <bdkc6i$smvej$1@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de> <37hrfvgmdq390jc3iubr41iq7rruadd9ip@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bdkh4n$u2rpn$1@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de>

Simon Faulkner wrote:
> Big thanks for this comprehensive reply.
> 
> I am well versed with MySQL so that's my backend.
> 
> Any particular favorites for a front end?

I'm currently going with Quixote [1] using mod_scgi [1] to connect it to 
Apache. I like it so far but it's my first project with it, so take my 
advice with a grain of salt :-)

-- Gerhard

[1] http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/
[2] http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/scgi/




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jun 10 18:23:22 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 17:23:22 -0500
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <3EE65444.907E6D87@alcyone.com>
References: <mailman.1055217438.10041.python-list@python.org>
	 <dd5454fb.0306101346.201331fc@posting.google.com>
	 <3EE65444.907E6D87@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <1055283802.689.48.camel@lothlorien>

On Tue, 2003-06-10 at 16:57, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> The problem with using `is' is that it already has a very specific
> meaning, namely in the use of the `is' operator.  

Note that "in" is already overloaded in the same way, i.e., it is an
operator, and it is a keyword when used with "for".  I don't think this
confuses anyone (though perhaps that's because there's more symmetry in
the two meanings).

I think "as" is a bit better, as it expresses what's going on a bit
better (which isn't really declarative, and "is" feels very
declarative).  I think that syntactic sugar is just as important as it
is with "for" -- things like "def classmethod foo(self):" or "def
foo(self) [classmethod]" don't look good to me.

I can imagine the alternate interpretation of "as" that would be:

    def foo(self) as classmethod: ...

being equivalent to:

    def foo(self): ...
    classmethod = foo
    del foo

Which is the analog of import...as, even if it is a useless analog.  The
analog of "is" might be:

    def foo(self) is classmethod: ...
    assert foo is classmethod

Which isn't true, though again such a meaning would be quite useless. 
It helps that isinstance(foo, classmethod) is true.

  Ian






From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Wed Jun 11 05:17:22 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 02:17:22 -0700
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <mailman.1055276623.31088.python-list@python.org> <bc5hd3$fhcqf$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0306110117.5fae7c9d@posting.google.com>

>From the Devils dictionary of shell programming ;-)

"""
 Bash: Like Bashful, but just the opposite. A tool
       used by geriatric programmers who are still discovering
       tcsh(it) and (s)korn(full). Built into many unices
       . Favorite apple pie for Old unix system V admins.
"""

Anand Pillai

"Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> wrote in message news:<bc5hd3$fhcqf$1 at ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>...
> "DavidW Blaschke" <dwblas at yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:mailman.1055276623.31088.python-list at python.org...
> > You suddenly realize that you no longer use bash, but
> > automatically start writing in python instead.  (Let
> > the bash vs. python flame wars begin.)
> >
> 
> Bash? Whats that?
> Can i eat that?



From manuelbastioni at tin.it  Mon Jun 30 08:48:15 2003
From: manuelbastioni at tin.it (manuel)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:48:15 GMT
Subject: To get all property of a class?
References: <yTJLa.273191$g92.6375448@news2.tin.it> <3eff7322$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <jkWLa.163881$pR3.3743329@news1.tin.it>

> import os
> for (name,value) in os.__dict__:
> print name,"=",value

it don't work (I'm using python into Blender distribution,
no full python installed).

I try with various modules, like

import Blender
for (name,value) in Blender.__dict__:
     print name,"=",value

This is the error message:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Text.003", line 2, in ?
ValueError: too many values to unpack

The method of Egor don't work too. I've tried
with a list of lamp objects (instances of povlamp class):

for lamp in lamps:
    for i in  dir(lamp):
        if i[0] != "_":
            print lamp.i

Result:
AttributeError: PovLamp instance has no attribute 'i'






From domma at procoders.net  Thu Jun  5 04:33:00 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:33:00 +0200
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com> <bbmv5c$qfq$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bbmv7u$ut5$04$1@news.t-online.com>

"Chuck" <cdreward at riaa.com> wrote in message
news:m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0 at 4ax.com...

Sorry for the encrypted message, here's the right on:

Hi Chuck,

> def blah(arg):
>     arg.append(3)
>
> v = [1,2]
>
> blah(v)

This confused me also the first time, but it's very consistent and
simple:

v is not the list, v is a reference to the list. From this point of
view, all values are passed by value, but your function gets a value
which is a reference.

> But it's not, because if I say "arg = None" inside the function,
> "v" is unchanged.

Of course, arg is another variable holding a reference to the same
list as v. What you do is asign a new value to arg, so there is no
reason why v should be changed.

> Also, if I do something similar:
>
> def blah(arg):
>     arg = arg + 1
>
> v = 1
>
> blah(v)

Same as above.

> It seems that if you pass a mutable variable, you can change it,
> but only by using it's methods, ie arg.append(), and NOT by doing
> an "arg = (new value)".

See above: arg.append uses the passed reference and changes the
underlying object. arg = (new value) asigns a reference to the new
value to arg.

> And if you pass an immutable variable, you can't change it at all.

I you know that you don't get an immutable variable, but rather a
reference to an immutable value this makes absolutly sense.

Achim





From ulkis at passagen.se  Fri Jun  6 05:32:35 2003
From: ulkis at passagen.se (Ulkis)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 02:32:35 -0700
Subject: Jython and Java 3D - Has it been done?
References: <3edfd696$1@clarion.carno.net.au>
Message-ID: <4a723be.0306060132.40d75207@posting.google.com>

> I am wondering if anyone has succesfully used the Java3D package with Jython?

I think this is what they do in Alice (http://www.alice.org) but I may be mistaken.



From gradha at titanium.sabren.com  Fri Jun 13 14:34:30 2003
From: gradha at titanium.sabren.com (Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:34:30 +0200
Subject: I don't understand this regex.groups() behaviour
Message-ID: <20030613183429.GA27641@pedos.es>

Hi.

I don't understand why the last two sentences of the following
interactive session don't return more than two groups.

Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jun  5 2003, 14:02:17)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

In [1]: import re

In [2]: c = '"A";"AA";"AAA";"AAAA";"AAAAA"'

In [3]: re.match(r'("A+?";)("A+?"$)', c)

In [4]: re.match(r'("A+?";)+("A+?"$)', c).groups()
Out[4]: ('"AAAA";', '"AAAAA"')

In [5]: re.match(r'("A+?";){4}("A+?"$)', c).groups()
Out[5]: ('"AAAA";', '"AAAAA"')

Could somebody please explain why multiple groups aren't returned?

-- 
 Please don't send me private copies of your public answers. Thanks.




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Jun 26 04:28:22 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:28:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Piping data into Python on the command line - Windows 2000
References: <8847f370.0306251228.2406f86c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93A65EFB58B39duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

christianzlong at yahoo.com (Christian Long) wrote in news:8847f370.0306251228.2406f86c at posting.google.com:

> I'm trying to pipe data into a python program on Windows 2000, on the
> command line.
> 
> Like this:
> dir | myProgram.py
> 
> 
This is a well known problem with Windows command line processor.
Try searching Google groups for "Python pipe win2k" and you will 
find several similar threads.

e.g.
http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?threadm=asjset%24n3l%241%40news.vanderbilt.edu

Try running your command with an explicit call to the Python interpreter:

   dir | python myProgram.py

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Jun 12 15:24:09 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:24:09 -0600
Subject: Bug in v1.5.2 Websucker GUI?
References: <7isqqi$8ki@vern.bga.com> <bc88g9$2uv$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bc9ckd$mb5$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <bcajpg$9cn$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>

Anton Vredegoor
> My bug-fix:
   ...
> I've tested it and now it works as expected. Can we get this in
> Python23 final?

Try submitting the bug to Python bug reporting site, which is linked to
from the Python home page, or directly at
  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From 2002 at weholt.org  Tue Jun 17 09:10:51 2003
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt ( PRIVAT ))
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:10:51 +0200
Subject: The beauty of Python
Message-ID: <yrEHa.7094$Hb.127911@news4.e.nsc.no>

I'm trying to promote Python as an elegant, easy-to-read and intuitive
language at work and to my programming-buddies. I thought it would be nice
to have a webpage with examples of the beauty of Python, showing small
snippets of code solving real-world problems or tasks. If anybody has any
such examples to offer, I'd be very gratefull. And if it turns out to be any
interest for this in this group, I'll collect the source-snippets and put
them on the net.

Best regards,
Thomas Weholt





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jun  5 20:25:11 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:25:11 -0400
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com>

"Ed Avis" <ed at membled.com> wrote in message
news:l1wug0jime.fsf at budvar.future-i.net...
> Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> writes:
> >True, but as usual, there's a reason for it. Lambda was intended[1]
> >for one purpose and one purpose only... to permit simple anonymous
> >functions to be used in places where the succinctness makes it more
> >readable than using def to make a named function.

As far as I know, this is correct.  Lambda expressions are syntactic
sugar that allow the embedding of what would otherwise be a def
statement within some other statement (which would be illegal if not
for the sugar).  As a side effect, they result in the function getting
the default definition name '<lambda>', which otherwise would be
illegal as a name.  Aside from this, the code and function objects
resulting from, for example, 'def f(x): return x^2' and 'lambda x:
x^2' are, I believe, identical.

> I would accept this argument, except for the four examples I
mentioned
> above.  They are all things which have side effects, and which are
not
> excluded from appearing in lambda expressions.

So what?  Many syntactic constructs can be used for more than intended
or thought about by the designer.

> The distinction between what can appear in a lambda
> and what can't seems arbitrary,

Syntactically, the difference between expression and statement is
basic for Python.  But yes, the choice of which program functions
appear as expressions and which appear as statements is somewhat
arbitrary (though not senseless).  If print had been made a function
rather that a statement (which choice Guido did think about), then
print would be legal in a lambda instead of not.

> it is certainly not based on side effects.

'Having side-effects' is not a grammatical category and could not
practically be part of a syntactic rule for lambda.

[In response to your further comments]  The choice for Python is no
lambda (which some would prefer, partly of the discussion and
complaints it engengers ;-) and a restricted lambda.  Extending lambda
to embed even simple statements within expressions is problematical:
if it were not, there would hardly be a need for lambda since that
difficulty is its reason for existence.  A multiline lambda that was
fully equivalent to def, even if syntactically possible, would hardly
have any point, since a multiline construct would be better pulled out
as a separate def statement.

....
> Yes, it would be nice if if-else could be used as an expression, as
in
> Haskell or Lisp or other functional languages.  But can't you work
> around this with
>
>     condition and if_branch or else_branch
>
> This is probably less clear than if-then-else, which is another
> example of how the current lambda rules tend to obfuscate code
rather
> than clarify it.  But the workaround works well enough once you get
> used to it.

This conditional selection expression (which I have used) works as a
substitute for part of certain if-else statements if and only if
bool(if_expression) == True, which is often true or can be chosen to
be true. ('branch' to me implies statements).  Similarly.
   (condition or if_expression) and else_expression
works if bool(if_expression)==False. [This was the subject of a
thousand posts last February or so -- final outcome not yet clear.
For more, see PEP 308 and c.l.p. discussions thereof.]

Terry J. Reedy





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jun 10 20:35:39 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 20:35:39 -0400
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
References: <mailman.1055139135.30925.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1055258495.22269.python-list@python.org> <6qn0gp23kr.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055287253.23148.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc5tgr$ick$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1055287253.23148.python-list at python.org>,
Steven Taschuk  <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:
>
>What's the difference between globals and module attributes?

The bytecode instructions are different.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From arsenal_hl at yahoo.com.hk  Tue Jun  3 10:34:42 2003
From: arsenal_hl at yahoo.com.hk (Arsenal)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 07:34:42 -0700
Subject: [ANN] PySQLite 0.4.2 released
References: <mailman.1054605965.25413.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e305e171.0306030634.556bf64@posting.google.com>

Was it compiled with the latest version of Sqlite v2.8.2?



From beliavsky at aol.com  Wed Jun 11 16:52:38 2003
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 13:52:38 -0700
Subject: finding unused variables in Python code
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0306111252.61cdfa2e@posting.google.com>

Is there any tool to find variables in Python code that are defined but never used?



From ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk  Sat Jun  7 10:45:37 2003
From: ajw126 at NOSPAMyork.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 15:45:37 +0100
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01>
Message-ID: <3ee1fa98$0$45181$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>

Rogue9 wrote:

> Pardon me but could anyone enlighten me if python2.2 has a math function
> to call to do factorials of integers?If not then is there a code snippet
> for doing such a thing available?I tried to write some code for this
> myself but with little success.
> Thanks
> Lol

Hi,

The other replies give a much more readable way of getting the factorial,
but if you're looking for the ultimate in speed then...

def fac(n):
    return reduce(long.__mul__, range(1,n+1), 1L)

..would probably be a bit quicker. I'm not sure how much quicker though.

Anyway, hope this is of some use,
Regards,
Andrew Wilkinson



From paul at boddie.net  Mon Jun  2 04:57:28 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 01:57:28 -0700
Subject: Python App Server Advice
References: <XQSBa.343$DL6.15721@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <8OVBa.442$DL6.18158@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0306020057.6c18fbb7@posting.google.com>

"Graeme Matthew" <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au> wrote in message news:<8OVBa.442$DL6.18158 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>...
> thanks for all yuor input much appreciated, im now on my last task before
> the server is ready getting pyApache to work after ditching mod_python as I
> could not get it working on linux only windows

I suppose you could turn to the mod_python mailing lists to get those
problems sorted out. In my experience, mod_python is very easy to
install on Linux, with the only issues arising around
Expat/pyexpat/cDomlette and character encoding "misinterpretation" if
you are using that particular combination of software to process XML
documents. With minidom from PyXML (and not 4Suite) mod_python should
be just fine for XML processing applications.

Paul



From just at xs4all.nl  Mon Jun  2 14:09:01 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 20:09:01 +0200
Subject: Interactive mode
References: <TXHCa.43127$jp.673066@twister.southeast.rr.com> <mailman.1054574104.391.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-DC5BCC.20090102062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.1054574104.391.python-list at python.org>,
 W Isaac Carroll <icarroll at pobox.com> wrote:

> p wrote:
> > Pythoneers,
> >     At least for the next little while, I'm going to be doing my Python 
> > development work on a Mac with OS X 10.2. Since I usually use the 
> > commandline (bash) and vim, it really isn't much different from when I 
> > use Linux. However, when I'm using interactive mode on this thing, my 
> > terminal settings don't allow me to up-arrow for the previous command, 
> > and backspace/delete don't backspace or delete.
> >     My terminal seems to be set up correctly... but if there's anyone 
> > who's run into this before, or if you know of a way for me to map the 
> > usual keys to their usual functions, please let me know. I'll just be 
> > here R'ing TFM.
> 
> Is it actually due to key bindings, or is it perhaps that the GNU 
> Readline library is not present on your system? On my Linux system 
> (Mandrake mongrel-point-two) when the readline library is not present, 
> Python runs just fine, but doesn't have command history or editing. 
> Unfortunately, I know very little about OS X, so I couldn't tell you 
> where to look for the library.

Readline is indeed the issue. There's tiny a download here:
  http://pyobjc.sourceforge.net/software/
("Readline support for Apple python") that has helped me in the past to 
get readline working on OSX.2.

Just



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Tue Jun 10 16:27:13 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:27:13 -0400
Subject: Break line across lines (not in '[]' or '{}')?
References: <13rFa.701$Hw.897715@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <vecfof6rn7t510@news.supernews.com>

"Robert Oschler" <no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid> wrote in
message news:13rFa.701$Hw.897715 at news2.news.adelphia.net...
> I have a Class with a lot of fields in the __slots__ attribute.  Is
there a
> way to break the line across multiple lines?
>
> Class HasSlots():
>     __slots__ = 'one', 'two', 'three'
>     ...
>
> I'd like to do:
>
> Class HasSlots():
>     __slots__ = 'one', 'two', 'three'
>     ...
>
>     but this produces a syntax error.
>
> thx

I think the slot assignment is a garden variety tuple,
so putting parenthesis around it should do what you want.

  __slots__ = ('one', 'two',
           'three')

This is a technical detail about tuples: it's the comma that
is significant in defining a tuple, not the parenthesis. Except in
two cases, the parens are simply syntactic sugar. (They make
the tuple into an expression.)

If there's some reason you don't want to use parenthesis,
use a backslash before the newline at the end of the line.

John Roth
>
> --
>
>
>
> Robert Oschler,
> Android Technologies, Inc.
> http://www.androidtechnologies.com
> - The home of Off-Book! (tm)
> The scene memorization tool for Actors and Actresses!
>
>
>





From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Mon Jun 16 12:06:32 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:06:32 +0100
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com>

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:15:13 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>
wrote:

>"To claim that the strong, static type checking constraints in C++, Java, or
>C# will prevent you from writing broken programs is clearly an illusion
>(you know this from personal experience). In fact, what we need is 
>
>Strong testing, not strong typing.

Sorry, but that looks just like meaningless polemic.  Try:

>"To claim that fibre in food will prevent malnutrition is clearly an illusion
>(you know this from personal experience). In fact, what we need is 
>
>vitamins, not fibre

and it's just as meaningful.  So if we're going to have meaningless
polemic, let me try mine :-)

"The choice between compile time testing and run-time testing is the
choice between the programmer finding the bugs and the customer
finding the bugs".



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jun 17 14:39:09 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:39:09 +0200
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
In-Reply-To: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com>
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3EEF604D.3090808@ghaering.de>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> Python cannot be killed.

Try stop feeding your Python and just wait a few months.

-- Gerhard




From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Jun  3 14:12:54 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 18:12:54 GMT
Subject: Bi-directional communication with external programs?
References: <bbi5if$h3u$1@rznews2.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>
Message-ID: <bbiof6$1qn6$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth Norbert Nemec <nobbi_at_theorie3.physik.uni-erlangen.de at NOSPAM.COM>:

| can anybody help me on this: I want to communicate bidirectionally with a
| gnuplot session I spawned from python.
|
| I.e.
| * popen3 for input/output/stderr
| * write one command
| * read and evaluate result
| * write next command
| * read and evaluate result
| etc.
|
| Problem: file.readline does block if there is nothing to read and select()
| does not seem to do anything useful either (it always tells me that there
| is data to read, even though there is none.)
|
| Unfortunately, I cannot predict in advance how much to read, as
| errormessages and other data comes through the same pipe and have to be
| discarded somehow.
|
| Anybody out there who can help me on that?

Maybe, but if it were so simple, there would be a more neatly packaged
solution and you would be using it already.  Since you have a lot of
rather general issues, maybe more than you realize, and no specific
code, maybe it would be worth your time to search Google's comp.lang.python
archive for information about popen, popen3, pipes etc.  Bidirectional
I/O is harder than one would think.  Pay attention to anything you read
about buffered I/O.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From avner at skilldesign.com  Fri Jun 20 04:28:00 2003
From: avner at skilldesign.com (Avner Ben)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:28:00 +0200
Subject: ftplib question
References: <3ef19a1c$1@news.012.net.il> <87isr2qmho.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3ef2c593$1@news.012.net.il>

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:87isr2qmho.fsf at pobox.com...
> "Avner Ben" <avner at skilldesign.com> writes:
>
> > How do I find the year of a remote file in ftplib?
> >
> > retrlines('LIST') seems to include only month day and hour.
>
> Forgot to say: if the year is equal to the current year, the time is
> shown, with no year.  Otherwise, the year is shown, with no time.
>

Thanks, John.

    I suspected something like that, but Had no way to find out, being a
Windows user.

        Avner.





From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Jun  8 18:58:58 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 18:58:58 -0400
Subject: os.system() bug?
In-Reply-To: <bc0cvd$id6$1@maud.ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEHDEJAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Johan Fredrik ?hman]
>>>> os.system('"C:\Program Files\UltraEdit\uedit32.exe" "arg"')
> 'C:\Program' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
> operable program or batch file.
> 1
>>>> os.system('""C:\Program Files\UltraEdit\uedit32.exe" "arg"') 0
>
> I am really stumbeled by this!  Why do I have to write two " at the
> beginning of the command to make it work?  Seems like this problem
> only occurs when there is a space in the path.

That's right.  os.system() opens a command shell, and this behavior is
inherited from your command shell.  If you open a "DOS box" and type the
same things at it, you'll get the same results -- it's the Windows command
shells that require quoting paths with embedded spaces.






From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jun 13 18:09:15 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:09:15 -0500
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
In-Reply-To: <roy-7FFDA8.17573013062003@reader1.panix.com>
References: <16102.10640.855883.967908@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <20030610190206.54459.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com>
        <mailman.1055526867.16928.python-list@python.org>
        <roy-7FFDA8.17573013062003@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <16106.19339.457460.323839@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> 8) You use the interactive interpreter as a calculator.

    Roy> I do that!

Me too from time to time.  Someone else mentioned using Python as their
login shell.  Just for the hell of it I created an account named "skippy" on
my laptop with the same privileges as my normal "skip" account but with
Python instead of Bash as my login shell:

    % ssh -l skippy localhost
    skippy at localhost's password: 
    Welcome to Darwin!
    Python 2.3b1+ (#64, Jun 10 2003, 05:18:12) 
    [GCC 3.1 20020420 (prerelease)] on darwin
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>>  help
    Type help() for interactive help, or help(object) for help about object.
    >>> ^D
    Connection to localhost closed.

Seems to work so far.  I'll have to mess around with it a bit...

Skip





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun 12 10:43:39 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:43:39 -0400
Subject: index(x)
References: <3EE884B6.3070105@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3EE8919B.2BE69AB@engcorp.com>

Tom wrote:
> 
> I compare all items in a list with another value. There are always
> multiple matches. I need the list index of every match. But if I use
> index(x) it only returns the first match in that list. There is probably
> a similar command that does exactly what I want, but I can't find it.

It's unfortunate perhaps that list.index() does not support the optional
second argument that specifies a starting index for the search, as the
string.index() method does.  I wonder if this is an inconsistency that 
should be repaired, or if there's a technical reason for its existence.

-Peter



From hyde at math.umn.edu  Thu Jun  5 16:04:08 2003
From: hyde at math.umn.edu (E. McKay Hyde)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:04:08 -0500
Subject: 64 bit python
In-Reply-To: <m3d6hso4hr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <701f25e6.0306040749.d649f7f@posting.google.com> <m3n0gxlli8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bblki1$80r$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu> <m3k7c1156b.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bbnm6p$mgj$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu> <m3d6hso4hr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bbo7nn$ql3$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> "E. McKay Hyde" <hyde at math.umn.edu> writes:
> 
> 
>>SIZEOF_LONG=4, as defined in pyconfig.h
> 
> 
> That is the core of the problem; this setting is incorrect.
> 

I see; this should be 8.

> 
>>Or perhaps the macro is using a different compiler in determining
>>the size?
> 
> 
> It uses $CC.
> 

This was the problem.  On AIX, the configure script _does not_ use $CC; 
instead it overrides $CC with "cc_r" (or, even worse, with "cc" when one 
specifies "--without-gcc").  Hence, even when I declared CC="cc_r -q64", 
this was replaced with "cc_r".  To get around this, I found that I could 
  declare the environment variable OBJECT_MODE=64 which has the same 
effect as "-q64", and which also selects the proper mode for "ar" and 
"ranlib".

Now, the compilation progresses nicely until the following error:

case $MAKEFLAGS in \
*-s*) CC='cc_r' LDSHARED='./Modules/ld_so_aix cc_r 
-bI:Modules/python.exp' OPT='-DNDEBUG -qmaxmem=-1 -O3 -qstrict 
-qarch=auto -qcache=auto -qtune=auto' ./python -E ./setup.py -q build;; \
*) CC='cc_r' LDSHARED='./Modules/ld_so_aix cc_r -bI:Modules/python.exp' 
OPT='-DNDEBUG -qmaxmem=-1 -O3 -qstrict -qarch=auto -qcache=auto 
-qtune=auto' ./python -E ./setup.py build;; \
esac
running build
running build_ext
building 'struct' extension
skipping 
/homes/sp14/hydem/realRoot64/src/PythonTest/Python-2.2.2/Modules/structmodule.c 
(build/temp.aix-4.3-2.2/structmodule.o up-to-date)
./Modules/ld_so_aix cc_r -bI:Modules/python.exp 
build/temp.aix-4.3-2.2/structmodule.o -L/usr/local/lib -o 
build/lib.aix-4.3-2.2/struct.so
gmake: *** [sharedmods] Segmentation fault


So, struct.so builds without errors and then I get a seg fault.  The 
compiled executable 'python' runs without any obvious problems.  I'm 
going to dig into the Makefile to see if I can find exactly where it is 
crashing.


Thanks for your help,

McKay





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun 22 14:05:26 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:05:26 -0600
Subject: Questions re subclassing at "load time"
In-Reply-To: <vfb68sik4m4v86@corp.supernews.com>; from edreamleo@charter.net on Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 06:55:06AM -0500
References: <vfb68sik4m4v86@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20030622120526.C416@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Edward K. Ream:
  [...in app...]
> class aCoreClass:
>     << methods of aCoreClass >>
> 
> class aClass (aCoreClass):
>     pass
  [...in plugin...]
> class myNewClass (aClass.aCoreClass):
>     << overriding methods of aCoreClass >>
> 
> aClass.aClass = myNewClass # change what an aClass is!
  [...]
> 1. Is this scheme completely safe?  Anything to watch out for?

One thing occurs to me: different plugins can't change the same
class; the second plugin loaded will simply nuke the previous
plugin's version of aClass.

An alternative: in the plugin, write
    class myNewClass(aClass.aClass):  # instead of aClass.aCoreClass
Then any previous plugin's version of aClass will be subclassed by
the new version.  If the new version plays well with others (e.g.,
extends methods rather than overriding them) then all plugins will
get their say in the behaviour of aClass.

In this alternative, the exact result still depends on the order
in which plugins are loaded.  Whether this is acceptable obviously
depends on what sorts of changes the plugins make.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"What I find most baffling about that song is that it was not a hit."
                                          -- Tony Dylan Davis (CKUA)




From aleax at aleax.it  Fri Jun 13 09:47:41 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:47:41 GMT
Subject: Newbie: changing an attribute of objects in a list
References: <bc72gq$cv3$1@main.gmane.org> <bc7gcd$ncf$1@main.gmane.org> <20030611120656.F1157@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus> <bc9fub$7vu$1@main.gmane.org> <20030612111547.B902@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus> <mailman.1055493745.28052.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1CkGa.85131$pR3.1786454@news1.tin.it>

<posted & mailed>

Ben Simuyandi wrote:

> I'm very sorry about the confusion. It comes from mistyping, and not
> thinking through my problem.
> 
> The first problem is from me not entering the number correctly. As you
> say, it should be a.order = 8 and g.order =9.
> 
> As for the second problem, this is because I had not thought about
> *exactly* what I want. What I would like is for the .age to be compared if
> any items have matching .order values, and the object with the larger .age
> value to have its .order value increased by one.
> 
> for example:
> if d.order and e.order match
>    compare d.age and e.age
>       if d.age > e.age
>         d.order = d.order + 1
>       else if d.age < e.age
>         e.order = e.order + 1
> 
> But after that, all objects with a .order value matching or greater than
> the changed .order value with have to be increased by one as well, so that
> all items still have a unique .order value. I don't actually need to
> compare .age values any more.

I suggest you think about the problem in a slightly different way, which
I believe should produce similar results but in a conceptually simpler
and speedier way:

step 1: "sort all objects by increasing order (primary) and age (secondary)"

step 2: "reassign the values of the order field to ensure uniqueness"

These two steps would leave your objects sorted by order and age rather
than in whatever sequence you initially had them in.  If that sequence
is important to you, then you need to keep track of that too, and add
a third and final step reordering everything in sequence; or else, use
the indices into the sequence rather than the items themselves, so the
order of the items never actually gets perturbed.

Each sorting step should use the DSU (Decorate-Sort-Undecorate) idiom
that is very well covered in the sorting and searching chapter of the
Python Cookbook and also exemplified in Python in a Nutshell.

Here is how I would approach a solution (warning: untested code):


Prerequisite: the argument items is a nonempty list of objects which have
  comparable fields named age (arbitrary type) and order (integer).

def updateOrder(items):
    aux = [ (items[i].order, items[i].age, i) for i in range(len(items)) ]
    aux.sort()
    curr_order = aux[0][0]
    for order, age, i in aux[1:]:
        if order <= curr_order:
            order = curr_order+1
            items[i].order = order
        curr_order = order

On exit ensures: the sequence of items is not affected.  Each item's .order
field is unique within the list.  If two items in the list x,y were such
that x.order < y.order before updateOrder was called, the same condition
still applies after updateOrder exits.  If two items in the list x, y were
such that x.order == y.order before updateOrder was called, then after
updateOrder exits x.order < y.order if and only if x.age < y.age, or if
x.age == y.age and x precedes y in the list's sequence; otherwise (x.age >
y.age, or x.age == y.age and x follows y in the list's sequence), then
x.order > y.order after updateOrder exits.  No item's .age nor any other
attribute is modified, except that each item's .order attribute _is_
modified but only where such modification is indispensable to assure
the rest of these post-conditions.


Alex




From galen at grex_nospam_.org  Fri Jun 27 20:10:46 2003
From: galen at grex_nospam_.org (trewornan)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 01:10:46 +0100
Subject: pygresql
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.28.00.10.45.319093@grex_nospam_.org>

I'm trying to install pygresql on mandrake 9.1 but when I try "python
setup.py build" I get the error - "cannot find
/usr/lib/python2.2/config/makefile"

I don't have this makefile - is it because I didn't build python myself
(added at installation).

I'd rather not have to try to root out the python installation, then build
and install again. Is there an alternative?

Trewornan



From saspurss at libero.it  Fri Jun  6 15:46:39 2003
From: saspurss at libero.it (Panther)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 19:46:39 GMT
Subject: Why it doesn't go ????
References: <pan.2003.06.06.02.56.12.823798@libero.it>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.06.19.51.51.351505@libero.it>

I have done !!! In linux is:
In dos you must work on a

import commands
output = commands.getoutput("ping -w 2 192.168.1.4")
#print output
print "\n\n"
a=output[144:153]
print a

Thank you



From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Fri Jun  6 15:34:28 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:34:28 -0600
Subject: XMLRPC Authentication
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061356590.21537@ns0.tbye.com>
References: <3EE0B8B8.6070602@optonline.com> <20030606160231.6470A2026F@www.fastmail.fm>
   <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061210520.21215@ns0.tbye.com> <20030606171737.0145427ED0@www.fastmail.fm>
  <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061227040.21250@ns0.tbye.com> <20030606175450.CEB7032900@www.fastmail.fm> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061356590.21537@ns0.tbye.com>
Message-ID: <20030606193428.612EC21EC9@www.fastmail.fm>

Ahhh,  okay....

So I would put code the do_POST to basically read the MD5 hashed
userid:password, decrypt it, and verify that it is a valid user id and
password?

On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:00:15 -0700 (PDT), dave at pythonapocrypha.com said:
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Justin Johnson wrote:
> 
> > How do you specify the login id and password required on the server side?
> >  The code I'm using is similar to the following.  I'm obviously missing
> > something here... :-(  Thanks for your help.
> >
> > # Server code
> >
> > import SimpleXMLRPCServer
> > from ccservice import CCService # A class providing methods for remote
> > use
> >
> > server = SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer(("somehost", 8000))
> > server.register_instance(CCService())
> > server.serve_forever()
> 
> Sorry for not more of a detailed answer, but subclass
> SimpleXMLRPCRequestHandler and override the do_POST method sorta like
> this psuedo-code
> 
> def do_POST(self):
>   Look at self.headers['authorization']
>   if missing or wrong:
>     self.send_response(401)
>     self.end_headers()
>     return
>   # Otherwise call original
>   return SimpleXMLRPCRequestHandler.do_POST(self)
> 
> (where "missing or wrong" = do the inverse of what the client side does
> to
> create the Authorization header)
> 
> -Dave
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jun 19 12:05:37 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:05:37 -0500
Subject: Problem inserting into Postgres (PgSQL) database
In-Reply-To: <200306191119.15704.dreed@capital.edu>
References: <DATAPIPE-AHLQ5KAPV400004a70@datapipe-ahlq5k>
        <3EF195E5.8050909@ghaering.de>
        <200306191119.15704.dreed@capital.edu>
Message-ID: <16113.57169.256796.893150@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> Second, your style of constructing SQL is a bad one. Use the DB-API
    >> way of quoting the various datatypes instead:
    ...
    >> The way you're constructing your SQL statement now is a security
    >> vulnerability if any of the fields can come from an untrusted source.

    Dave> Could you please elaborate on how your method is more secure?
    Dave> Isn't it the same result since the %s are replaced with the values
    Dave> from the variable.

I hadn't considered the possibility of a security hole, though I suspect
there is one, especially when executing SQL which might modify tables.  I'm
not good enough with SQL to know how to reliably construct malicious stuff.
The more likely problem the way you are doing things is that you will wind
up with a quoting error.  What if, for example, passwd contained a single
apostrophe?  By letting the execute() method handle quoting that gets taken
care of for you.

Skip





From jack at performancedrivers.com  Sun Jun  1 09:12:54 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:12:54 -0400
Subject: Defensive programming
In-Reply-To: <698f09f8.0306010424.1625940f@posting.google.com>; from tweedgeezer@hotmail.com on Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 05:24:32AM -0700
References: <hIqp1WAG0c2+Ew1+@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.1054463105.27128.python-list@python.org> <698f09f8.0306010424.1625940f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030601091254.L1276@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, Jun 01, 2003 at 05:24:32AM -0700, Jeremy Fincher wrote:
> Jack Diederich <jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1054463105.27128.python-list at python.org>...
> > Specific problems are 
> > best solved at specific layers, and DoS attacks that eat CPU are best solved
> > at the operating system level.
> 
> All the operating system can do is kill the runaway process; how is
> that acceptable for multiple client processes?
> 

Not very!  But the OS could send a catchable signal that means 'knock it off.'
The default behavior would be to kill the process, but the program could
redefine it if there is a smart way to cleanup & die.

This has the advantage that it works for all DoS attacks - the programmer
and the programmers of his language (python) don't have to anticipate and
avoid all possible attacks, known and unknown.  Killing the process is still 
a very reasonable default, staying alive during a DoS is your #1 priority.

CPU/memory quota policies would have to be explicitly defined by the
admin for particular programs & services.  The guys over on linux-kernel
have tried lots of heuristics to intelligently kill world-eating memory hogs
but all the heuristics fail in one way or another (killing init is a popular
misstep).

-jack




From nagylzs at freemail.hu  Mon Jun  9 12:03:41 2003
From: nagylzs at freemail.hu (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Nagy_L=E1szl=F3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 18:03:41 +0200
Subject: Home directory problem
Message-ID: <3EE4AFDD.9020604@freemail.hu>

Hi All! I wonder if there is a standard way to determine a user's local 
directory. I know that unix compatible machines has an enviroment 
variable called 'HOME'. Windows 2000 and XP machines have an enviroment 
variable called 'HOMEPATH'. But I don't know how to read this on Win9X, 
Mac and the possible others. Is there a standard way? Some details: I'm 
writting a multi platform two-tiered source code management tool. The 
clients need to store some information locally. This information must be 
separated from other users. I'm using dumbdbm and I'm searching the 
right place for the config database. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

  Laci 1.0






From bkc at Murkworks.com  Thu Jun 19 09:41:36 2003
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:41:36 -0400
Subject: Anyone using Venster?
References: <3ef182ca$0$13798$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <bcseic$jsv$1@main.gmane.org>

Not using it yet but I intend to.

I need to prototype a DLL that injects mshtml control into a parent window,
most likely using the ATL window control hack and then creating some COM
interfaces and passing them into mshtml.

venster has an example of the ATL window control "hack", I just need to
decide if I want to use win32com or ctypes com.

--

btw, what I'd really like to do is create  a CPython implementation of
something like "thinlet":http://www.thinlet.com  or "xwt":http://www.xwt.org

That'd be very cool.

--
Novell DeveloperNet Sysop #5

_
"Guyon Mor?e" <gumuz at looze.net> wrote in message
news:3ef182ca$0$13798$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net...
> Recently I discovered the 'Venster' package at http://venster.sf.net/
>
> I really like the idea of using this instead of the pywin/mfc stuff. The
> only problem is that there is almost no documentation and I can not find
> anything on the web/newsgroup about it.
>
> So i was wondering if anyone's using this and likes to share some code.
>
>
> cheers,
>
> guyon
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>







From bh at intevation.de  Tue Jun 10 04:45:49 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 10:45:49 +0200
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
References: <mailman.1055139135.30925.python-list@python.org> <6qptlnux3w.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055177065.4464.python-list@python.org> <6qfzmjumq7.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055185158.5625.python-list@python.org> <6qbrx7uh2u.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055197158.4087.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6q3cii2ude.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:

> Quoth Bernhard Herzog:
>   [solicited example of use of traceback argument to raise]
> >         except SketchLoadError, value:
> > 	    raise SketchLoadError('%d:%s' % (self.lineno, str(value))), None,\
> >                   sys.exc_traceback
> > 
> > So, basically it's there to put some more information into the error
> > message. Not all places where SketchLoadError is raised have access to
> > the line number so it can't easily be done in other ways.
> 
> Yes, this makes sense.  It seems to me a bit odd to create a new
> exception object, though; would it work to mutate the existing
> SketchLoadError and re-raise it?

In this particular case, yes. There are other cases where the exception
type is different too, but I'm not sure anymore whether that really is a
good idea.

> > threads so it shouldn't be a problem unless somebody now goes and starts
> > deprecating sys.exc_traceback ;-)
> 
> It's been deprecated since 1.5 according to the Library Reference.
> <wink>

Yes, but Python doesn't issue warnings about it. Actually, issuing
deprecation warnings for exc_traceback and friends might be a good idea.
The alternative has been available since 1.5 and it is a potential
source of bugs. It would be far less controversial than the proposed
syntax change for the raise statement, I think.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Mon Jun  9 17:12:06 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 21:12:06 GMT
Subject: pickling from C
References: <bD3Fa.54383$4_1.14116131@twister.nyc.rr.com> <mailman.1055189121.3400.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GK6Fa.54393$4_1.14154666@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Thanks David,
btw, your book is supposed to be on its way from Amazon. I hope it comes
fast...

--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]


"Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters" <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote in message
news:mailman.1055189121.3400.python-list at python.org...
> "Max Khesin" <max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com> wrote previously:
> |I am exploring a possibility of having a c++ module write files in pickle
> |format to be later processed with python. How difficult is this to do?
> |(let's say all I need to write are some string-to-in-list dictionaries).
Is
> |there a project to do this somewhere?
>
> Probably not outrageously hard... but I imagine it would be even easier
> to use YAML as a format.  If you use the Syck C library (which has a
> Python binding), you can even do the reading and writing quite quickly.
> And the intermediate format is quite a bit more readable than are
> pickles (which may not be necessary, but cannot hurt).
>
> To an extent, I could recommend gnosis.xml.pickle for the same reasons.
> But other than for XML buzzword-compliance, YAML is almost always
> better (smaller data files, faster, etc).
>
> --
> ---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
> Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
> White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
> ---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------
>
>





From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Thu Jun 26 16:19:49 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:19:49 GMT
Subject: add empty directory using zipfile?
References: <rsmjfvkmc2s46abk236uao8malat1t7q83@4ax.com> <Xns93A64264F1909JanC@213.118.38.24> <mailman.1056613311.31082.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93A6E324AAFE3JanC@213.118.38.24>

Oren Tirosh <oren-py-l at hishome.net> schreef:

> ZIP files *can* contain directories. They are described as zero-length
> files with some flag set.  I don't see any specific API for this in 
> zipfile.py but I think that if you pass a ZipInfo record with the right
> values to ZipFile.writestr it should probably work. Consult the 
> documentation of the zip format or just create a zip containing an empty 
> directory with any zip utility look at the ZipInfo using zipfile.py.

I checked with some Windows ZIP utilities and it seems like they don't add 
empty directories--oh wait it's an option that's off by default...
( *oops* ;)

They are added as an empty "file", with a filename sometimes ending in "/"  
and sometimes not (this is not defined in the ZIP format specs?), and the 
"directory" external attribute set.


The following script works for me:
=========================================
import zipfile

zf = zipfile.ZipFile('zftest.zip', 'w')

# This works:
zfi = zipfile.ZipInfo('test1/')
zf.writestr(zfi, '')

# This works too:
zfi = zipfile.ZipInfo('test2')
zfi.external_attr = 16
zf.writestr(zfi, '')

# But this doesn't:
#
# zf.write('test3')
# 
# And this doesn't either:
#
# zf.write('test4/')

zf.close()
=========================================

Seems like the zipfile module requires the trailing "/" and/or manual 
setting the attribute for directories in the ZipInfo object.  If you want 
to preserve other attributes you'll have to set them manually...

And the write() method doesn't work with directories...  :-(
In fact the write() method is broken and doesn't store any file attributes 
correctly on Windows...

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From tchur at optushome.com.au  Fri Jun 13 20:20:56 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 10:20:56 +1000
Subject: Curses-based replacement for Dataflex (was: hi)
In-Reply-To: <20030613111148.GB7973@csola.ugyvitelszolgaltato.hu>
References: <20030613111148.GB7973@csola.ugyvitelszolgaltato.hu>
Message-ID: <1055550056.1202.92.camel@emilio>

On Fri, 2003-06-13 at 21:11, Attila Szabo wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I wrote a complete programming interface with curses support
> mainly for using with postgres.
> It has integrated list writer, simple file manager, simple file viewer,
> printer support, printer filters, database routines, search functions, etc...
> Also has message sending functions over the net to other database users,
> thread support, etc...
> The curses interface is completely a new-wave design i think
> (or at least i hope) it is unique.
> 
> We replaced dataflex with it.
> I'd like to know if there is some interest toward the interface.

If you intend to release this framework under a free, open source
license, then yes, this sounds interesting - there is utility yet in
terminal-mode applications, particularly in Two-Thirds World nations
where 386 or 486 machines make excellent terminals when hooked up via
(dirt-cheap) Ethernet to a more modern US$500 Linux server (including
CD-R as backup medium) - this approach makes a 10 or 20 workstation
network for use in, say, an NGO feasible for just a few thousand dollars
(excluding the cost of developing custom applications which your
framework is designed to address).

Can you provide more details on a Web site, including screenshots?

-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0

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From thedustbustr at aol.com  Thu Jun  5 21:15:32 2003
From: thedustbustr at aol.com (TheDustbustr)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 01:15:32 GMT
Subject: trouble embedding python
Message-ID: <20030605211532.12139.00000114@mb-m04.aol.com>

*** BEGIN script.cpp ***
class Script
{
public:
	PyObject* pName;
	PyObject* pModule;
	PyObject* pDict;
};

int Script_LoadScript(Script& s, char* module)
{
	s.pName =   PyString_FromString(module);
	s.pModule = PyImport_Import(s.pName);
	if (!s.pModule) {
		printf("Script_LoadScript> pModule failed\n");
		return false; }

	s.pDict = PyModule_GetDict(s.pModule);
	if (!s.pDict) {
		printf("Script_LoadScript> pDict failed\n");
		return false; }

	return true;
}
*** END script.cpp ***


*** BEGIN main() ***
...
Script_LoadScript(script, "pobj");
result=PyDict_GetItemString(script.pDict, "Human.str");
if (!result) {printf("fatal: str is null\n");}
attr=PyInt_AsLong(result);
attributes[0]=attr;
...
*** BEGIN main() ***


*** BEGIN pobj.py ***
class Human:
    str=10
    dex=10
    con=10
    int=10
    wis=10
    chr=10
*** END pobj.py ***

I want to be able to access Human and all attributes from C++.  What's wrong
with what I have (when run, result evaluates to false and attributes[0] is -1).
 If it matters, a call to PyErr_Print() crashes python, but I may be using it
wrong.

Thanks, Dustin



From jarausch at skynet.be  Fri Jun 27 10:58:26 2003
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:58:26 +0200
Subject: problem: saving files in IDLE
In-Reply-To: <bdhiak$oq4$02$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bdhiak$oq4$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3EFC5B92.1070709@skynet.be>

Florian Wellner wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've got a Problem when I want to save a .py file in
> Idle. Most times it works, but sometimes I can't save
> my file. In the "Python Shell" Window, I get the message:
> 
>   Exception in Tkinter callback
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File
> "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line
> 1343, in __call__
>      return apply(self.func, args)
>    File "/usr/lib/idle/IOBinding.py", line 136, in save_as
>      if self.writefile(filename):
>    File "/usr/lib/idle/IOBinding.py", line 151, in writefile
>      chars = str(self.text.get("1.0", "end-1c"))
> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
> 
> What can I do?
> 

Try to upgrade to Python 2.3 (CVS if possible) since this
containes idle 1.0beta2 and is IMHO much better.



-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany




From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jun 14 17:11:16 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 14:11:16 -0700
Subject: comprehending comprehensions
References: <roy-9EE81E.13521714062003@reader1.panix.com>
	 <mailman.1055615006.26571.python-list@python.org> <Oe46+kKkXwof092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1055624365.11601.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EEB8F74.DCFA6B79@alcyone.com>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:

> So what does this have to do with list comprehensions.  Well, recall
> how
> you would write the set B in math notation.  Subject to the limits of
> my
> keyboard, something like:
> 
>     B = {x | x <- A s.t. P(x)}
> 
> I try to draw the "member of" symbol as "<-" in ASCII.

In this set notation, it's | (sometimes written as a colon) that means
"such that."  Where you wrote "s.t.," you really meant logical and:

	B = {x | x in A and P(x)}

[where `in' is set membership and `and' is logical conjunction].

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ To perceive is to suffer.
\__/  Aristotle



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Wed Jun  4 22:53:43 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 02:53:43 GMT
Subject: os.system question
References: <mailman.1054634944.13754.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbdtcg3.nq7.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 13:18:01 +0300, Ruslan Spivak wrote:
> I need to get result from 'ping' command(in manpage they are 0, 1, 2),
>[...]
> res = os.system("ping -w 3 192.168.1.1")
>
> This gives 256 or another numbers, what am i doing wrong?

The exit code returned to a parent when a child exits is defined by the
underlying operating system.  In the case of Unix, the parent gets a
16-bit number containing both the process ID that killed the child, and
the child's exit() value.

  <http://python.org/doc/current/lib/os-process.html>

Read the description of the system() function, which will refer you to
the wait() description, for an explanation of the exit code.

-- 
 \     "I must say that I find television very educational. The minute |
  `\   somebody turns it on, I go to the library and read a book."  -- |
_o__)                                                     Groucho Marx |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Jun 17 14:45:58 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:45:58 -0700
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
Message-ID: <1055875558.3eef61e631d23@mcherm.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> Python cannot be killed.

Gerhard suggested:
> Try stop feeding your Python and just wait a few months.

"Few" may be more than you think. From 
 http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/accounts/python/p._reticulatus

> Reticulated pythons, like all reptiles, have a low metabolic rate 
> allowing them to go without food for long periods of time. In 1926, 
> a captive specimen at Regent's Park refused food for 23 months, after
> which it accepted a meal and continued to feed normally (Murphy and
> Henderson 1997).





From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Jun  9 15:23:16 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 21:23:16 +0200
Subject: PEP 318: Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <Xns939576AA45E80duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <E19PDu0-00072g-00@sc8-pr-cvs1.sourceforge.net> <mailman.1055151317.13691.python-list@python.org> <Xns939576AA45E80duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20030609192316.GA15456@nl.linux.org>

Hi,

Duncan Booth wrote:
> Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
> > I would say:
> > 
> > funcdef: "def" funcname "(" [parameter_list] ")" [call_list] ":"
> > call-list: callable ("," callable)* [","]
> 
> Did you miss out "as" before the [call_list]? Also, I still think that you 
> need to allow optional parentheses around the call-list.

Both true.

So it becomes:

funcdef: "def" funcname "(" [parameter_list] ")" ["as" ["("] call_list [")"]] ":"

> > A legal syntax would be:
> > 
> > def __get(self) as property: ...
> > 
> > However, this doesn't work for set and del. Using function attributes to
> > accomplish properties, as has been proposed in the past, is a different
> > story and would require a different PEP.
> 
> What would people think of a half-way house where the new syntax is used 
> only on the last part of the definition, and you define the other methods 
> just as you do just now?

I think it wouldn't be correct, because we aren't defining __get as
property: __get is only the fget of the property, and the property may
be called italian_lesson.

> Since the property type isn't callable today, I think this just about fits 
> without breaking anything:
> 
> Define a readonly property, implicitly calls property(X) which creates a 
> readonly property:
> 
>    def X(self) as property:
>        return self.__x_value

Yes, that would work. But only because fget is the first argument to
property(), and it is not entirely clear immediately - not to me,
at least.

> Define a readwrite property, the call to property returns a property object 
> which is itself callable. Calling a property object with an fset but no 
> fget would take the parameter as a new fget:
> 
>    def set_X(self, value):
>        ...
>    def X(self) as property(fset=set_X):
>        return self.__x_value

Hm. I am not really convinced whether this is the best solution. It is
not immediatly clear that the property is bound to X, because up til
now, the property was not bound to any of the names of the getter or
the setter. Here, the setter would be accesible as a method but the
getter wouldn't, because X has been overwritten with a property while
set_X hasn't. This is true for all following examples as well.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
156. If a man betroth a girl to his son, but his son has not known her,
and if then he defile her, he shall pay her half a gold mina, and
compensate her for all that she brought out of her father's house. She may
marry the man of her heart.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Jun 16 15:21:52 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:21:52 -0400
Subject: Possible install bug in Python 2.3b1? (Python 2.2 still in the
 registry)
In-Reply-To: <5ab0af73.0306161041.203f6378@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHKEEAFPAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Matt Shomphe]
> I installed Python 2.3b1 on my machine (Win2k, sp3, 384 MB ram, 500mHz
> pentium III).  After installing, I noticed that in the registry
> (regedit), there were still entries containing the old Python 2.2
> records.

Why is this surprising?  For example, installing 2.3b1 does not uninstall
2.2.  Did you uninstall 2.2?

>  For example:
>
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\Applications\python.exe\shell\
> open\command
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\Applications\pythonw.exe\shell
> \open\command
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Session
> Manager\Environment (It's still in the %PATH%)
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet002\Control\Session
> Manager\Environment (It's still in the %PATH%)
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session
> Manager\Environment (It's still in the %PATH%)
>
> all have the path C:\Python22\.

Whether one or more of those should have gotten overwritten depends on
things you haven't told us, such as whether you clicked on the Advanced
options button when installing, and, if so, whether you did an Admin or
Non-Admin install, and whether you chose to associate file extensions or
not.

> This does not seem to affect the behavior of the latest install.  (I
> noticed the error only when I tried to install eGenix.com's mx
> extensions.  It requires Python 2.2 and I noticed a garbage entry
> when it was about to install.)

Sorry, don't know what that means.

> Is this a bug that should be reported?

Not enough info here to guess whether there's a bug.





From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun  4 11:24:55 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:24:55 -0500
Subject: Changing python process name (or argv[0]) 
In-Reply-To: <1054739086.3ede0a8ec5f95@mcherm.com>
References: <1054739086.3ede0a8ec5f95@mcherm.com>
Message-ID: <16094.3911.794057.562197@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Michael> Mike writes:
    >> I think the functionality is desirable for some (at least on Unix
    >> python), and this simple trick hardly warrants an extra module if it
    >> is indeed acceptable in the python world.

    Michael> Mike, you have it exactly backwards. This simple trick hardly
    Michael> warrents inclusion in core Python when it can be implemented by
    Michael> an extra module.

In addition, the idea was rejected by Guido in the past (I remember because
I proposed it).  I doubt he's changed his mind on the topic in the past few
years.

Skip




From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sat Jun 21 16:47:24 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 06:47:24 +1000
Subject: Leo<--GUI interactive prompt with non-text output
In-Reply-To: <000601c33834$e935fc30$a300a8c0@emilio>
Message-ID: <000701c33836$54e21d00$a300a8c0@emilio>

From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]
On Behalf Of Tim Churches
> It was Knuth who introduced the term "literate
> programming" I think but it seems to have really taken hold with
> statisticians and mathematicians - there is a list of tools to
> investigate here: http://shelob.ce.ttu.edu/daves/lpfaq/faq.html

...which will lead you to Leo, the literate programming environment for
Python, written in Python using Tk/Tcl. Leo even supports plug-ins as a
means of extending its functionality. Phew, we got to the right answer
in the eventually. 

Now to investigate Leo myself.

Tim C







From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Thu Jun  5 19:18:21 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:18:21 +1200
Subject: Characters in Python
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1301E580DB@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13C8CBF6@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

>     Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit 
> (Intel)] on win32
>     Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>     IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>     >>> theStr = u"???"
>     UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
>     >>>

FWIW:

Python 2.3b1 (#40, Apr 25 2003, 19:06:24) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> theStr = u"???"
>>> theStr
u'\xc5\xe4\xf6'
>>> 

I get the same error as you using Python 2.2.3.  (In fact, if I copy and
paste from the 2.2 tutorial (unicode strings section), I get an error :/ ).

Is using Python 2.3b1 a possibility?

=Tony Meyer





From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Sat Jun 14 09:08:54 2003
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 13:08:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: SWIG/distutils question
Message-ID: <slrnbem7j6.i84.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

I just upgraded SWIG and got trouble with distutils... Previously, I
could simply list the extension, with the proper .c and .i files...
Now, however, it seems that SWIG has started building .py wrappers for
the extension. For a file foo.c, this wrapper is (per default) called
foo.py, and imports an extension called _foo (e.g. _foo.so). This is
(sort of) OK, I guess -- the problem is that the default name for the
extension is foo.so, not _foo.so! (At least that's what I get.) This
seems so stupid, I suspect it must be my own fault...

Anyway -- on the command-line one can explicitly override the default
to give the correct _foo name, but how does one do that in distutils?
And how does one make sure the foo.py file is installed? List it as a
module? I suppose that will be safe, since build_ext (which actually
builds foo.py) must be run before install anyway, but it sounds a bit
weird... Even though I don't like this new behaviour of automatically
generating .py files, I guess the main question is to which degree
distutils is in sync with SWIG at the moment... (I could always run
SWIG separately from distutils, of course, so this is not critical.)

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland                "In this house we obey the laws of
http://hetland.org                 thermodynamics!"    Homer Simpson



From h_schneider at marketmix.com  Tue Jun 24 08:49:44 2003
From: h_schneider at marketmix.com (Harald Schneider)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:49:44 +0200
Subject: py2exe and dynamic service installation ?
References: <bd6672$dhe$01$1@news.t-online.com> <3ci0syqd.fsf@vfa.com> <adc7hm57.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <bd9hdb$f0k$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Thomas,

do I need to prepare my Python app for the use with WISE, when I want to
install it as a service? Does it need to provide a certain service API or
some special response codes ?

--Harald


"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:adc7hm57.fsf at python.net...
> mmillikan at vfa.com writes:
>
> > The attached diff to py2exe v.0.3.4 run_svc.c adds the following
optional
> > command line args to the users exe file:
> >
> > -service <desired name>
> > -display <display name>
> > -depends <pipe|separated|dependencies>
> > -user    <account name>
> > -pass    <password>
> > -auto    no param, sets service to autostart
> >
> > Rebuild the py2exe interpreters by running 'python setup.py build' in
> > the py2exe directory.
> >
> > This is only lightly tested and not yet used in production.
> >
> > I also have a run_svc_w.c which provides a consoleless analog to
> > run_w.c (usefull for avoiding 'flashing window syndrome' when bundling
> > exe's for use within an installer such as NSIS or Inno Setup).
>
> If you want this to be included in the next px2exe release,
> please upload it as a patch to the SF tracker:
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=15583&atid=315583
>
> Myself I use Wise, which can register the service itself, so I had no
> need for this. Is a separate console version and console-less version
> needed? For debugging?
>
> Besides, I would think that eventually the best approach would be to
> rewrite PythonService.cpp (which is used by run_svc.c) in pure python
> with ctypes, but currently I have neither a need nor time for this.
>
> Thomas





From icarroll at pobox.com  Tue Jun 10 05:02:15 2003
From: icarroll at pobox.com (W Isaac Carroll)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:02:15 -0700
Subject: Call a Python file with parameters
Message-ID: <3EE59E97.8070303@pobox.com>

martin z wrote:
 > The reason I ask this is because I'm using Python in a heavily
 > embedded environment in which each function stands alone and each
 > function is interchangeable.  The functions are fetched out of the
 > database as files. These files could be text or compiled PyC
 > (probably will arrive as pair to encourage editing).  Hence, keeping
 > the code atomic at a function level is needed.  The method you
 > describe above is inappropriate because the code must be run once to
 > build the function, and then the function retrieved. What would be
 > ideal would be to run the code once with the parameters.

So you're trying to avoid the overhead of executing a def statement to
build the function? If the files have already been compiled by the time
you retrieve them from the database, the only thing that the import
statement has to do is load the .pyc and bind the name. Were you
assuming that the function would have to be executed twice (once to
create it, once to call it)? I'm pretty sure that's not the case.
Perhaps someone more familiar with Python internals could help out here.

Have you tried doing it the normal way (from foo import bar) to see if
it's fast enough for your purpose? I'm pretty sure that you'd get
acceptable results, and the code would be much easier to understand.
More importantly, I don't think any of the magic that's been suggested
would turn out to be any faster.

TTFN





From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Jun 17 05:07:30 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:07:30 GMT
Subject: non-implicit globals -- missing feature
References: <3eee2351$0$11585$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <mTAHa.188476$g92.3820388@news2.tin.it>

Helmut Jarausch wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm missing a feature (in many programming languages including
> Python) that does not use global variables unless requested.
> 
> Is there any means in Python to catch errors like this following one?
> 
> x=1
> 
> # many many lines here
> 
> def mysub()
>    # x=7   #forgot this assignment
>    # ....
>    anothersub(x)  # this uses the global x unfortunately
>                   # how can I get an exception here ?
> 
> So I would prefer if there were an option / pragma
> which say  # __no_implicit_globals__
> 
> Is there any way to get this behaviour?

Unfortunately, there isn't.  But are you really sure you'd like
it if it was there?  Such an option would inevitably flag:

def myothersub():
  x = 7
  anothersub(x)

as an error, because name 'anothersub' is global too.  There
is no strong distinction between names that are currently bound
to callable objects and names that are bound to objects that
are not callable, after all -- names are just names.

You may easily get a list of all names that a function uses
and that are not local variables of that function, e.g.:

def nonlocals(f):
    c = f.func_code
    return [n for n in c.co_names if n not in c.co_varnames]

this would report ['anothersub', 'x'] in your example case,
but just ['anothersub'] in the myothersub case.  There is no
reasonable way, that I can see, to automate the vetting of
these lists; but if you want to program arbitrary rules such
as 'and report an error if some of the names are module
attributes that are not callable', you could do so...


Alex




From erased*remove_this* at xs4all.nl  Fri Jun 20 13:41:50 2003
From: erased*remove_this* at xs4all.nl (rgndrp)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 17:41:50 GMT
Subject: include files?
References: <3ef1c90f$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <bcuftd$rvu$0@216.39.172.122> <3ef2d8fc$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <bcupq6$n4nl9$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de> <3ef2f22f$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <dSw8+ks/K3jW089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <3ef3475e$0$49117$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

thnx all,

	import applic

was wat is was looking for.



From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Mon Jun 23 16:37:11 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:37:11 +0200
Subject: CGI and Unicode
References: <545cb8c2.0306231007.4a3c07a2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bd7nl3$2qha$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Thy the patch in the middle of your source...
Works better than a <meta http-equiv... >

HTH.

--Gilles

"Jim Hefferon" <jhefferon at smcvt.edu> a ?crit dans le message de news:
545cb8c2.0306231007.4a3c07a2 at posting.google.com...

[snip]

>
> What am I missing?  Thanks for any help,
> Jim Hefferon
>
> -------- test_cgi.py ----------------------------
> #!/usr/bin/python -u
> # test_cgi.py
> # test CGI unicode issue
> from types import *
>
> import cgi
> import cgitb
> cgitb.enable()
>
> # create the HTML document
> print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n"

# change above line against...
print "Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8\n\n"

> print "<html><head><title>CGI TEST</title></head>\n\n"
> print "<META http-equiv=\"Content-Type\" content=\"text/html;
> charset=UTF-8\">"
> print "<body bgcolor=\"white\">\n"
>
> cgi_params=cgi.FieldStorage()
> cgi_keys=cgi_params.keys()
> try:
>     var=cgi_params['name'].value
>     if type(var) is UnicodeType:
>         print "<p>The type of the variable is a Unicode</p>\n"
>     elif type(var) is StringType:
>         print "<p>The type of the variable is a regular string</p>\n"
>     print "<p>Character 12 is %s</p>\n" % (var[12],)
> except:
>     pass
>
> print "<form method=\"POST\" accept-charset=\"utf-8\">\n"
> print "<input type=\"text\" name=\"name\">\n"
> print "<input type=\"submit\">\n"
> print "</form>\n"
> print "</body></html>"




From m at moshez.org  Sun Jun  8 01:55:20 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 05:55:20 -0000
Subject: Twisted - howto transport megabytes?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.06.08.05.01.17.794849@comcast.net>
References: <pan.2003.06.08.05.01.17.794849@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20030608055520.23336.qmail@green.zadka.com>

Metaresponse: Twisted questions belong on the Twisted mailing list,
not here.

On Sun, 08 Jun 2003, "Ed Young" <ejy712 at comcast.net> wrote:

> When receiving large messages (multiple megabytes), I can
> use the dataReceived method to get the messages piecemeal.
> Since file writes can be blocking, how can I write the
> received pieces to a file in a non-blocking fashion?

In UNIX, file writes never block. Can you clarify what you're talking
about?

> When sending large messages (multiple megabytes), well,
> I haven't figured that out yet.  Does the transport
> method accept a filehandle from which it will feed as
> it needs to?

You should "register a producer" on the transport.
See twisted.web.static.FileTransfer for how to register producers.
The 5-line explanation
transport.registerProducer(instance)
instance should support "resumeProducing()" which should call the
transport.write with a small amount of data (several Ks), and
"pauseProducing()" (which usually does nothing) and
"stopProducing()" which means the file isn't needed anymore.

-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Jun 22 10:12:10 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:12:10 +0200
Subject: "a in b" calls a.__cmp__, why?
In-Reply-To: <20030621213134.GA9454@nl.linux.org>
References: <mailman.1056224677.5103.python-list@python.org> <s9ucnbWjlZxYXmmjXTWJkw@comcast.com> <20030621213134.GA9454@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <20030622141210.GB3553@nl.linux.org>

Sets rule ok!

Gerrit Holl wrote:
> Ah, thanks... I'll override __eq__ then to compare by equality.
> > If you want identity in-ness, either program the search yourself or
> > use a list  (or dict/set) of ids and search for id(item) in idlist.
> > 
> > If your list is long (enough) and repeatedly searched, sorting and
> > using binsearch or making a set or dict for hash access will be
> > faster.
> 
> I will try that.

Ah, Sets are much better, also in other places in my game. I was
already using them so I should have known them...

What is binsearch, actually? I wasn't able to find anything about
it on the www or usenet.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
167. If a man marry a wife and she bear him children: if this wife die
and he then take another wife and she bear him children: if then the
father die, the sons must not partition the estate according to the
mothers, they shall divide the dowries of their mothers only in this way;
the paternal estate they shall divide equally with one another.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jun 19 17:37:57 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 17:37:57 -0400
Subject: Term: comparison operators?
References: <bct8a2$l3c$1@panix1.panix.com> <gTpIa.211040$g92.4358244@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bctafl$6eb$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <gTpIa.211040$g92.4358244 at news2.tin.it>,
Alex Martelli  <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>>
>> What would you call the set of comparison operators that does not
>> include ``==`` and ``!=``?
>
>"Order-comparisons".

Thanks!
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jun 13 07:16:35 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 07:16:35 -0400
Subject: How to pause within a thread
References: <bcbuvp$d6j$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Message-ID: <3EE9B293.D80031C5@engcorp.com>

Rolf Wester wrote:
> 
> I have a thread that is polling a server for completion of a routine.
> This thread should only consume little cpu time so I want to pause this
> thread between calls to the server. Is there any simple function for
> this or do I have to use a Timer object?

import time
time.sleep(x)  where x is a float, in seconds

But this is probably not the best approach.  Rather than
"poll" the server, presumably using a non-blocking recv() call (?)
you should investigate the select.select() function.  Either
that, or base your code on an existing framework that already
deals with such issues in simpler and more scalable ways
(e.g. asyncore, or Twisted).

-Peter



From v.wehren at home.nl  Thu Jun 19 11:53:40 2003
From: v.wehren at home.nl (vincent wehren)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:53:40 +0200
Subject: Btrieve/C-extension question
References: <bcrua6$120$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <94974e1a.0306190653.3a829cb6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bcslog$70p$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"Paul Simmonds" <psimmo60 at hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:94974e1a.0306190653.3a829cb6 at posting.google.com...
> "vincent wehren" <v.wehren at home.nl> wrote in message
news:<bcrua6$120$1 at news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>...
> <Problem description snipped>
> > Is it sensible to pass such a block of memory to Python and back?
> > If so, what is the best way to go about this, I.O.W, how do I pass such
a
> > block of memory
> > to Python and back (unchanged).
>
> I think you need a PyCObject.

Thanks
Yes, that was my guess too...
So I did someting along the lines of:

pos = PyCObject_FromVoidPtr(pos_blk; NULL) ;
return Py_BuildValue("N", pos);

Passing is back in where I was getting trouble:
( passed back in via PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O", pos) )
pos_blk = PyCObjectAsVoidPtr(pos);
doesn't seem to work...

I think I need to check to C side of things once more.
Maybe there's some other Btrieve mystery that needs unravelling!

Vincent Wehren

But
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/cObjects.html
>
> <quote from page above>
>        This subtype of PyObject represents an opaque value, useful for
> C extension modules who need to pass an opaque value (as a void*
> pointer) through Python code to other C code.
> <end quote>
>
> It seems like this is meant for function pointers and the like, but it
> works well for pieces of memory that need to be passed through Python
> but not processed.
>
> HTH,
> Paul Simmonds
>
> >
> > Any pointers would be much appreciated.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Vincent Wehren





From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jun 17 14:04:15 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 18:04:15 GMT
Subject: Loop from 'aaaa' to 'tttt' ?
References: <slrnberu4u.khj.lschaps@x11.informatik.uni-bremen.de>
Message-ID: <bcnl6v$gmf$0@216.39.172.122>

On 16 Jun 2003 17:04:30 GMT, Lars Schaps <tuffi23 at gmx.de> wrote:

>Hello.
>
>In my program in need a loop from 'aaaa' over
>'aaac', 'aaag', 'aaat', 'aaca' to 'tttt'.
>(Possible characters 'a', 'c', 'g' and 't')
>
>One idea i had is to take a number n with the base of
>4 and use 
>
>t= string.translate( '0123', 'acgt')
>string.translate( n, t)
>
>But i don't know how to convert from base10 to base4.
>
>Has anyone a idea?
>
Here is another (not well tested!) alternative, in the form of an int-derived class
that can represent itself in various bases via str, and has sort of explanatory repr:

====< nbaseb.py >=========================================
class NBaseB(int):
    def __new__(cls, n, **kw):
        self = int.__new__(cls,n)
        self.base = kw.get('base',10)
        self.width = kw.get('width',1)
        self.special = 'glyphs' in kw
        self.glyphs = kw.get('glyphs','0123456789abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz')[:self.base]
        return self
    def __str__(self):
        sign = self<0 and '-' or ''
        n = abs(self)
        digs = []
        while n or self.width and len(digs)+len(sign)<self.width:
            n,d = divmod(n,self.base); digs.append(self.glyphs[d])
        digs.reverse()
        return sign+''.join(digs)
    def __repr__(self): 
        return '<NBaseB(%s) base=%s%s: %s>'%(
            int(self), self.base, ('',' (glyphs=%r)'%self.glyphs)[self.special], self)
==========================================================

 >>> from nbaseb import NBaseB
 >>> NBaseB(123) # show default repr
 <NBaseB(123) base=10: 123>
 >>> str(NBaseB(123)) # show str presentation
 '123'
 >>> for i in xrange(8): n=NBaseB(i, base=4, width=5); print '%s: %r' %(n,n)
 ...
 00000: <NBaseB(0) base=4: 00000>
 00001: <NBaseB(1) base=4: 00001>
 00002: <NBaseB(2) base=4: 00002>
 00003: <NBaseB(3) base=4: 00003>
 00010: <NBaseB(4) base=4: 00010>
 00011: <NBaseB(5) base=4: 00011>
 00012: <NBaseB(6) base=4: 00012>
 00013: <NBaseB(7) base=4: 00013>

But you wanted width 4 and special digit glyphs:

 >>> for i in xrange(8): n=NBaseB(i, base=4, width=4, glyphs='acgt'); print '%s: %r' %(n,n)
 ...
 aaaa: <NBaseB(0) base=4 (glyphs='acgt'): aaaa>
 aaac: <NBaseB(1) base=4 (glyphs='acgt'): aaac>
 aaag: <NBaseB(2) base=4 (glyphs='acgt'): aaag>
 aaat: <NBaseB(3) base=4 (glyphs='acgt'): aaat>
 aaca: <NBaseB(4) base=4 (glyphs='acgt'): aaca>
 aacc: <NBaseB(5) base=4 (glyphs='acgt'): aacc>
 aacg: <NBaseB(6) base=4 (glyphs='acgt'): aacg>
 aact: <NBaseB(7) base=4 (glyphs='acgt'): aact>

 >>> [str(NBaseB(i, base=4, width=4, glyphs='acgt')) for i in xrange(256)]
 ['aaaa', 'aaac', 'aaag', 'aaat', 'aaca', 'aacc', 'aacg', 'aact', 'aaga', 'aagc', 'aagg', 'aagt',
  'aata', 'aatc', 'aatg', 'aatt', 'acaa', 'acac', 'acag', 'acat', 'acca', 'accc', 'accg', 'acct',
  'acga', 'acgc', 'acgg', 'acgt', 'acta', 'actc', 'actg', 'actt', 'agaa', 'agac', 'agag', 'agat',
  'agca', 'agcc', 'agcg', 'agct', 'agga', 'aggc', 'aggg', 'aggt', 'agta', 'agtc', 'agtg', 'agtt',
  'ataa', 'atac', 'atag', 'atat', 'atca', 'atcc', 'atcg', 'atct', 'atga', 'atgc', 'atgg', 'atgt',
  'atta', 'attc', 'attg', 'attt', 'caaa', 'caac', 'caag', 'caat', 'caca', 'cacc', 'cacg', 'cact',
  'caga', 'cagc', 'cagg', 'cagt', 'cata', 'catc', 'catg', 'catt', 'ccaa', 'ccac', 'ccag', 'ccat',
  'ccca', 'cccc', 'cccg', 'ccct', 'ccga', 'ccgc', 'ccgg', 'ccgt', 'ccta', 'cctc', 'cctg', 'cctt',
  'cgaa', 'cgac', 'cgag', 'cgat', 'cgca', 'cgcc', 'cgcg', 'cgct', 'cgga', 'cggc', 'cggg', 'cggt',
  'cgta', 'cgtc', 'cgtg', 'cgtt', 'ctaa', 'ctac', 'ctag', 'ctat', 'ctca', 'ctcc', 'ctcg', 'ctct',
  'ctga', 'ctgc', 'ctgg', 'ctgt', 'ctta', 'cttc', 'cttg', 'cttt', 'gaaa', 'gaac', 'gaag', 'gaat',
  'gaca', 'gacc', 'gacg', 'gact', 'gaga', 'gagc', 'gagg', 'gagt', 'gata', 'gatc', 'gatg', 'gatt',
  'gcaa', 'gcac', 'gcag', 'gcat', 'gcca', 'gccc', 'gccg', 'gcct', 'gcga', 'gcgc', 'gcgg', 'gcgt',
  'gcta', 'gctc', 'gctg', 'gctt', 'ggaa', 'ggac', 'ggag', 'ggat', 'ggca', 'ggcc', 'ggcg', 'ggct',
  'ggga', 'gggc', 'gggg', 'gggt', 'ggta', 'ggtc', 'ggtg', 'ggtt', 'gtaa', 'gtac', 'gtag', 'gtat',
  'gtca', 'gtcc', 'gtcg', 'gtct', 'gtga', 'gtgc', 'gtgg', 'gtgt', 'gtta', 'gttc', 'gttg', 'gttt',
  'taaa', 'taac', 'taag', 'taat', 'taca', 'tacc', 'tacg', 'tact', 'taga', 'tagc', 'tagg', 'tagt',
  'tata', 'tatc', 'tatg', 'tatt', 'tcaa', 'tcac', 'tcag', 'tcat', 'tcca', 'tccc', 'tccg', 'tcct',
  'tcga', 'tcgc', 'tcgg', 'tcgt', 'tcta', 'tctc', 'tctg', 'tctt', 'tgaa', 'tgac', 'tgag', 'tgat',
  'tgca', 'tgcc', 'tgcg', 'tgct', 'tgga', 'tggc', 'tggg', 'tggt', 'tgta', 'tgtc', 'tgtg', 'tgtt',
  'ttaa', 'ttac', 'ttag', 'ttat', 'ttca', 'ttcc', 'ttcg', 'ttct', 'ttga', 'ttgc', 'ttgg', 'ttgt',
  'ttta', 'tttc', 'tttg', 'tttt']

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jflanigan at netzero.net  Wed Jun 25 09:19:35 2003
From: jflanigan at netzero.net (jose flanigan)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 06:19:35 -0700
Subject: Advice for developing in python with Microsoft Office?
Message-ID: <c6f263dc.0306250519.12526baa@posting.google.com>

I'm using python to shuffle data in and out of Microsoft PowerPoint
and Microsoft Excel and create and transfer graphs. The problem I'm
having is that there are so many methods and properties built into the
PowerPoint and Excel objects. I have been looking at the PowerPoint
object documentation built into the Visual Basic development
environment, but that's not much help. It tells you what's there, but
not how to do specific things with the object.

Can anybody point me to some resources or advice on getting through
this? I'm convinced that these Microsoft objects can be useful if I
could just figure out how to use them correctly.

Thanks in advance. Sorry if I sound frustrated.



From jps at lopan.dccs.upenn.edu  Wed Jun 11 12:00:30 2003
From: jps at lopan.dccs.upenn.edu (jps)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:00:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Kerberos authentication for IMAP?
References: <bbtrf1$dbiin$1@ID-58778.news.dfncis.de> <m3y90dvzhl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bc2g5c$1nmq$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <bc7jmu$3thv$1@netnews.upenn.edu>

In <bc2g5c$1nmq$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu> "Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:

>Anyway, supposing that the krb4 module is ready to go ... The imaplib
>authenticate function deals with the AUTHENTICATE command, 6.2.2 in
>the IMAP4 RFC 3501, which is more generically a SASL implementation.

How about a python interface to the cyrus-sasl library written in Pyrex?

You can find one on a page that Google knows:
http://www.google.com/search?&q=site%3Awww.upenn.edu+python+sasl

Go to the UNIX section to find the Python sasl module.

And if anyone wants to take over the maintainance of this python sasl module,
please let me know. We don't have the staff time to enhance or support it,
but it fills an important need in Python.



From rmunn at pobox.com  Thu Jun  5 11:04:28 2003
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:04:28 GMT
Subject: handling errors
References: <3ede90d5$0$20012$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbdun0e.tfh.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>

ataraxia2500 <messageboardfan1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I got that little piece of code on a tutorial. I want to add an error
> handling to the print_menu function so that if the user enter strings
> instead of int the program doesn't crash but I couldn't make it. I tried to
> add: "except ValueError:
>         print "That was not a number.""
> at the end but it didn't do anything. any idea how I should use it?

Sounds like you forgot the "try" part of the "try ... except" block.
Here's how it's supposed to work:

try:
    code_that_could_fail()
except SomeError:
    handle_error()
keep_going()

So, for example, here's how you would want to ask for a number:

value = None
while value is None:
    line = raw_input()  # Much safer than input()
    try:
        value = int(line)
    except ValueError:
        print "That was not a number."
print "You entered the number", value

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com>
http://www.rmunn.com/
PGP key ID: 0x6AFB6838    50FF 2478 CFFB 081A 8338  54F7 845D ACFD 6AFB 6838



From just at xs4all.nl  Fri Jun 20 16:30:00 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:30:00 +0200
Subject: os.listdir()
References: <s6KIa.218256$g92.4546830@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <just-CDC716.22300020062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <s6KIa.218256$g92.4546830 at news2.tin.it>,
 "manuel" <manuelbastioni at tin.it> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking for the listdir function in os module,
> to study it, but I can't find the
> 
> def listdir(self):
>     etc...
> 
> 
> Excuse for my poor eglish.
> Where is the function listdir definition?

It's written in C, in Modules/posixmodule.c. os.py imports it.

Just



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Fri Jun  6 13:06:53 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 10:06:53 -0700
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
In-Reply-To: <1054830721.2139.13.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>
References: <E19NnV9-00031r-00@tswings.swing.cluster>
	 <1054829046.2139.5.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>
	 <200306050920.17729.p@ulmcnett.com>
	 <1054830721.2139.13.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>
Message-ID: <1054919212.2139.194.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 09:32, Cliff Wells wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 09:20, Paul McNett wrote:
> > Cliff Wells writes:
> > 
> > > wxPython would be preferred over pygtk because it has been ported to
> > > more platforms.  
> > 
> > wxPython is still in active development, no? MacOSX is definitely not ready 
> > yet, at least.
> 
> If it weren't in active development it would be dead <wink>.  Last time
> I checked the Mac ports were coming along well.

As an update, the Mac OSX port is available on www.wxpython.org.  I
understand it still has some missing features and extra bugs but
otherwise is usable.

http://www.wxpython.org/download.php#binaries

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jun 18 12:51:02 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 09:51:02 -0700
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306180851.890fdfa@posting.google.com>

Kendear <kendear at nospam.com> wrote in message news:<3EEFEBFD.8090003 at nospam.com>...
> i hope to define a dictionary this way:
> 
> lst = """
> a    1
> foo  3
> bar  234
> joe  321
> """
> 
> lst = lst.split()
> 
> now lst refers to  ['a', '1', 'foo', '3', 'bar', '234', 'joe', '321']
> i want to do something like
> 
> dict = {}
> for key, value in lst:
>      dict[key] = eval(value)
> 
> 
> but key, value is not for taking 2
> items at a time, but take a tuple
> and unpacking it...
> 
> is there a way for the "for"
> to take 2 items at a time?
> 
> or is there a more common way to define a dictionary
> without all the punctuation marks?

lst = """\
a    1
foo  3
bar  234
joe  321
"""

d=dict([(line.split()[0],int(line.split()[1])) for line in lst.splitlines()])

print d

#=>{'a': 1, 'foo': 3, 'bar': 234, 'joe': 321}



From marc at informatik.uni-bremen.de  Mon Jun 23 13:47:37 2003
From: marc at informatik.uni-bremen.de (Marc Recht)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:47:37 +0200
Subject: Newbie: using the parser from PyExpat/sgmlop
In-Reply-To: <3ef6b6f4.1558250671@news.skynet.be>
References: <3ef6b6f4.1558250671@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <90660000.1056390457@leeloo.intern.geht.de>

> This may be a stupid question, but as I am a newbie: can anyone help
> me out how I can force Python to use the parser from PyExpat or
> sgmlop?
from xml.dom.ext.reader import PyExpat
reader = PyExpat.Reader()
doc = reader.fromString(docstr)

HTH,
Marc

mundus es fabula




From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Thu Jun 12 13:31:09 2003
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:31:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Pseudo-indices -- PEP material?
Message-ID: <slrnbehe6t.bib.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

I've found I kind of like the capability of numarray to use sequences
as keys to arrays, e.g:

>>> a
array([1, 2, 3, 4])
>>> a[[1, 3]]
array([2, 4])
>>> a[[0, 3]] = [5, 6]
>>> a
array([5, 2, 3, 6])

Now we can do similar things with the new slice abilities of 2.3
lists:

>>> a
[1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> a[1::2]
[2, 4]
>>> a[::3] = [5, 6]
[5, 2, 3, 6]

This is, however, still a bit restricted. We can only use arithmetic
sequences as (pseudo-)indices. I think it would be nice to be able to
use arbitrary sequences. It is mainly a syntactic nicety, although
moving the necessary loop to C might speed things up a bit too.

Of course numarray can use multidimensional arrays as
(pseudo-)indices; that wouldn't be applicable here, since lists are
only one-dimensional.

Does this seem like nonsense? Does anyone else like it? Is it worth
consideration as a PEP? Maybe one should just use numarray for this
sort of thing in the first place? (The reason I started thinking about
this is that I can't get any version of numarray to work with Py3b1 in
Solaris at the moment... :)

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland                "In this house we obey the laws of
http://hetland.org                 thermodynamics!"    Homer Simpson



From puccio_13 at yahoo.it  Sat Jun 21 09:15:01 2003
From: puccio_13 at yahoo.it (Alessio Pace)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:15:01 +0200
Subject: embedded db in python app?
References: <qRVIa.34337$Fr5.730650@tornado.fastwebnet.it> <877k7flknz.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <N1ZIa.34535$Fr5.734153@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

John J. Lee wrote:

> Alessio Pace <puccio_13 at yahoo.it> writes:
> 
>> Hi, I wrote a python application which needs to persistently store 2
>> *big* hash maps at the end of its execution and retrieve them when it
>> starts again. Up to now I just used pickle to serialize 2 objects that
>> "encapsulate" those hash maps (and nothing else). I wonder if using an
>> embedded db (but which one??) to store those two hash maps would be
>> faster both in storing and in retrieval.
> 
> BSDDB3.  Useful google terms: pybsddb3, BSDDB, DB3, sleepycat.
> 
> IIRC, the standard Python library module is known to be buggy (may
> have been fixed in 2.3, can't remember), so don't use that.

Thanks, I'll give it a try :-)

> 
> 
> John

-- 
bye
Alessio Pace



From theller at python.net  Tue Jun 17 12:33:23 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:33:23 +0200
Subject: swig and init_module or initmodule, windows XP
References: <bcn8cd$efu$00$1@news.t-online.com> <smq8kb99.fsf@python.net>
 <bcnccl$bp6$07$1@news.t-online.com> <n0ggk8mw.fsf@python.net>
 <bcne84$ekq$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <el1sk6jw.fsf@python.net>

"Thomas Jung" <jung-paz at t-online.de> writes:

> (BTW: what is top-posting ? How did I possibly do that ? I am sitting in
> front of a windows machine, using outlook, and not really familiar with
> windows. My family is forcing me now to use this  :-)

See http://jargon.watson-net.com/jargon.asp?w=top-post
and also http://jargon.watson-net.com/jargon.asp?w=bottom-post.

Searching the internet will also show a lot of links for this topic.

It boils down to this (taken from the second URL I cited):

  Hackers consider that the best practice is actually to excerpt only
  the relevent portions of the parent message, then intersperse the
  poster's response in such a way that each section of response appears
  directly after the excerpt it applies to. This reduces message bulk,
  keeps thread content in a logical order, and facilitates reading.

>> >> "Jung-Paz" <jung-paz at t-online.de> writes:
>> >>
>> >> > I am using Python2.2, mingw and Swig 1.3.19, Windows XP, and
>> >> > trying to build a module using the distutils.
>>
>> >> > Basically it works, but in the final linking step I get an
>> >> > undefined reference to "initexample" (the module name is
>> >> > example).
>>
>> >> > This sounds reasonable, as the file example_wrap.c, as produced
>> >> > by swig, contains only a function "init_example.c".  If I
>> >> > replace "init_example" by hand with "initexample" and compile
>> >> > and link by hand, everything is fine, and I get a loadable and
>> >> > usable module.  Any idea how I could make swig to produce other
>> >> > function names, or whatever could help ?
>> >>
>> >> Sounds like you should name your extension _example.pyd instead of
>> >> example.pyd...
>> >>
>> >
>> Can you post the setup script you use?
>>
>
> Here is setup.py:
> ========================================================================
> # setup.py
> import distutils
> from distutils.core import setup, Extension
>
> setup(name = "Simple example from swig website", version = "2.2",ext_modules
> = [Extension("example",["example.i","example.c"])])
> ========================================================================
>
> and example.c (from the SWIG tutorial):
[deleted]

I'm not using SWIG myself anymore, but a Python extension module named
"example" needs a function "initexample", and an extension module named
"_example" needs a function "init_example".

IMO you should change your setup script in this way:

========================================================================
# setup.py
import distutils
from distutils.core import setup, Extension
setup(name = "Simple example from swig website",
     version = "2.2",
     ext_modules = [Extension("_example",["example.i","example.c"])])
========================================================================

Does this work (when you do 'import _example' afterwards?

Thomas



From ed at membled.com  Fri Jun  6 19:26:04 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 07 Jun 2003 00:26:04 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

>>>Lambda expressions are syntactic sugar that allow the embedding of
>>>what would otherwise be a def statement within some other statement
>>
>>Not quite, of course, since not everything that can appear in a def
>>statement can appear in a lambda.
>
>That the legal bodies of lambdas are a subset of the legal bodies of
>defs is the subject of discussion

Yes, sorry.

>>The point is that the supposed justification for lambda's
>>restrictions
>
>My justification for the rule is that it is the simplest possible,
>and that it probably makes implementation simple and dependable.

It is perhaps the simplest possible from the implementation point of
view, but it seems very peculiar and convoluted in use.  At least at
first.

I can think of another rule which is just as simple: allow any
construct which fits on one line.  Simpler to explain, for sure.

>The behavior is exactly as advertised: it turns an expression into a
>function 'on the fly'.  Some people think this covers enough useful
>cases to offset the nuisance of having it in the language.  Others
>don't, and would like it removed in Python 3.

It's a pity that lambda is viewed as a nuisance rather than as an
opportunity.  If it were made more general, and perhaps if the scoping
rules were changed to permit closures, it could add a lot of power to
the language (by which I mean permit some programs to be expressed
more clearly and concisely).  The current implementation of lambda is
a bit awkward, but that shouldn't speak against the idea of anonymous
functions and anonymous code references.

>There is one simple rule: the body of a lambda can be any Python
>expression.  Not mulltiple rules.  Not complex, but about the
>simplest possible.  It should take a whole minute to learn for anyone
>with the requisite knowledge of Python expressions, which one needs
>to know anyway to even start programming in Python.

I don't have my copy of 'Learning Python' to hand, but I don't recall
any strong emphasis on statements versus expressions in that or other
learner-oriented texts.  The distinction between the two is something
that you don't need to worry about, to Python's credit.  But it does
bite you in the case of lambda (and maybe in other parts of the
language, although I haven't yet encountered some). 

>>>Extending lambda to embed even simple statements within expressions
>>>is problematical:
>>
>>     lambda x: assert(x > 0)
>>     lambda x: print 'value:', x
>>     lambda x: y += x    # (without any change to scoping rules)
>>
>>I don't see what is so problematical about any of these.
>
>Perhaps I am wrong in my doubts.  When you produce a clear grammar
>rule for extented lambda and produce a version of the interpreter
>that implements the rule without easily detectable bugs and plausibly
>claim that there were no real problems in doing so, then I will
>reconsider my statement.

Sorry, I thought we were discussing the language itself and that
'problematical' meant it would complicate the definition of the
language.  Of course, if you think that it would be difficult to
modify the Python compiler to support statements inside lambda then I
am not in a position to disagree.  I can only note that many other
languages support anonymous functions that can do all that a named
function can, and that one possible way to implement lamvda in Python
would be to turn a lambda-expression into a 'def' internally, with a
freshly generated name.

>>parsable.  But it seems unlikely, one of the big advantages of
>>Python is is clean grammar (currently marred only by the strange
>>rules about lambda-expressions, IMHO).
>
>You persist in falsely claiming that the current simple rule is
>multiple and complex or 'strange',

What is strange is not so much the grammar rule for lambda itself, as
the dividing line between what is a statement and what an expression.
I gave several examples of where it didn't seem to make any sense -
sys.stdout.write is an expression while print is a statement,
setdefault is an expression but ordinary setting of dictionary
elements is a statement, and so on.

OTOH, if lambda could contain any construct and wasn't syntactically
restricted to expressions, then the list of what you can and cannot do
in an expression would not have to concern the programmer, just as it
does not when writing normal (named) functions.

You can sit down and start writing Python code - whether it be
'print', 'x = 3', 're.match', 'sys.exit' - without worrying about
whether the line you're typing is really an expression or a statement.
You just go ahead and type it, and it works.  This is a strength of
the language.  It's a weakness that the same simplicity is not there
when you're writing the body of an anonymous function.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From ed at membled.com  Mon Jun  9 02:47:23 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 07:47:23 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m37k7xxefu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1he70hnlc.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3y90cup7z.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <l1adcrg32c.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) writes:

>For example, what is the meaning of
>
>a = lambda b : return b > 0

I propose it to mean the same as

    def fresh(b):
      return b > 0
    a = fresh

where 'fresh' is a newly generated symbol.

In the cases where the body of the lambda-function is an
expression_stmt (for example 'b > 0' with no 'return') I propose to
make the meaning the same as today's lambda-functions.
    
>x = lambda b:c=3
>
>what happens if I invoke x(4)?

Just the same as what happens with

    def fresh(b):
      c=3
    x = fresh
    x(4)

>What if x is
>
>x = lambda c:c=3
>
>What is the meaning of continue inside lambda?

Again, the meaning is just the same as a named function definition
with the same body.  (It would be interesting do let 'continue' and
'break' and maybe 'return' inside lambda have meanings that affect the
control flow of the calling routine, but that is not part of my
proposal.)

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From someone at invalid.com  Tue Jun  3 04:18:45 2003
From: someone at invalid.com (Sean Richards)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 08:18:45 GMT
Subject: wxPython vs Tkinter for imaging front end GUI???
References: <3EDBB504.87EE8EE1@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <slrnbdomnn.5ur.someone@hugin.valhalla.net>

On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 13:35:16 -0700, Leonard J. Reder wrote:

> I have a command line image feature recognition code and I want to put a
> quick python script on it to execute it and give it a GUI.  I need to
> read in an image (JPEG), rescale the image on a canvas sort of display,
> place mouse over it to select some coordinate points.  And then just do
> other stuff with buttons and entries.  I am confortable with TK from
> using tcl but in Tk there is not an easy way to handle scaled images on
> the canvas.  Does wxPython have this sort of functionality included?
> Has this sort of thing been done with Tkinter and PIL in Python.  Or
> perhaps PMW, Tkinter and PIL can be used.
>
> I am looking for recommendations from someone who has implemented this
> sort of thing in Python?  Any comments on which toolkit would be better
> to use for this are requested?

I coded up a simple GUI in wxPython which involved some basic image
inspection tasks. For displaying the image and inspecting pixel values
etc I used Matt Kimball's image_view module which is written in
wxPython.

http://matt.kimball.net/image_view.html

This might be a useful starting point if you want to use wxPython. It
certainly saved me a lot of grunt work.

Cheers,  Sean

--
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new |
| and improved ways of spelling old words.                      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+



From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jun 19 23:26:41 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:26:41 +1200
Subject: sum(strings)
In-Reply-To: <uZlIa.10$38.9@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
References: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <uZlIa.10$38.9@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bcttfu$n5trq$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> Because there is just one right way to do it:
> 
>     "".join([str1, str2, str3, ...])

Hmmm... maybe this ought to be the "right"
way to do summing as well:

   total = 0.join([17, 42, 88])

Reductions using operators other than "+"
would be obtained by choosing the appropriate
identity element for the operation, e.g.

   1.join([17, 42, 88])

would give you their product, etc.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jun 17 21:56:48 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 02:56:48 +0100
Subject: When is unit-testing bad? [was: Re: does lack of type...]
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com> <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <mailman.1055784208.22718.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1055813915.12726.python-list@python.org> <3EEE7D4C.DA0B3512@engcorp.com> <donn-2FF467.09334917062003@nntp2.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com>

Donn Cave <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:

> In article <3EEE7D4C.DA0B3512 at engcorp.com>,
[...]
> He's not the only one who gets a message something like that
> from the unit testing advocates on c.l.p.  Without the hyperbolic
> ``all possible situations'', sure, but more to the point, does
> the discussion usually acknowledge significant exceptions, or
> rather tend to dismiss them?

Nobody can rationally disagree with you that there might exist
situations where writing tests is inefficient (saves less time than it
costs).  But, of course, we'd like to know *what those cases are*,
because, AFAIK, they haven't been clearly pointed out.

I assume you have no problem accepting that many people have found
that writing lots of automated unit tests, and writing them early,
works better than not doing so.

So, what criteria do you have for the test/no-test decision that work
better than my own rule of "always write an automated unit test
(probably before writing the code), unless I'm too lazy or
incompetent" <0.2 wink>? (lazy in the bad sense, that is)

I suppose people might argue that if the answers to the following
questions, for example (any others to suggest?), are mostly 'no', then
the ratio of tests to code should be lower:

1. Code likely to be reused in future?
2. Code has been reused in past?
3. Code will not grow big (say, > 1000 lines)?
4. Lots of people working on it?
5. For a long time?
6. Correctness of code particularly important?
7. Emphasis on refactoring?


But you're probably already expecting the answers:

1. Often hard to tell if it will be.
2. But adding tests later is more expensive (as is fixing bugs later).
3. See 1, 2.
4. See 1, 2.  But even if it's only one person, it's usually worth it (IME).
5. See 1, 2.
6. I have to admit code correctness is *not* always crucial (whatever
   Bertrand Meyer may try to tell you), but I suspect that, usually, if
   it's important enough to fix bugs, it's worth writing tests.
7. My mind isn't entirely made up, but it might be suggested that if
   you're not refactoring, you've made another mistake.


Looking at the thread from which I'm trying to start this one, a
lesson to be learned from the static vs. dynamic typing thing is that
it doesn't always work to consider one thing at a time.  Static-typing
wonks like to point out that static analysis finds bugs.  But us
dynamic typing, um, types, note that static analysis isn't the only
variable: dynamic typing brings other pros, static typing other cons,
and (dynamic typing + tests) is better than the other combinations.
So maybe unit-testing enthusiasts should be thinking more about the
costs and opportunity costs of testing?  Maybe if we all switched to
constraint-based / functional languages with static type inference and
god-knows-what-else, and spent some of our testing time doing more
code review, we'd be better off still?


John



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Fri Jun 20 08:01:59 2003
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:01:59 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Anyone using Venster?
In-Reply-To: <3ef182ca$0$13798$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
References: <3ef182ca$0$13798$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <20030620215430.E36525@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Guyon Mor?e wrote:

> Recently I discovered the 'Venster' package at http://venster.sf.net/
>
> I really like the idea of using this instead of the pywin/mfc stuff. The
> only problem is that there is almost no documentation and I can not find
> anything on the web/newsgroup about it.
>
> So i was wondering if anyone's using this and likes to share some code.

Venster is still pretty young and raw, as is the underlying ctypes
package, though ctypes is maturing rapidly.

I'm experimenting with Venster at work, as I'm having to use ctypes to
access a COM package which has very limited support for COM automation,
and is thus not really usable from Mark Hammond's win32all package :-(.

As Venster is only a fairly thin wrapper about various Windows APIs (ATL &
WTL in particular), I've been able to use the online docs at MSDN (in
conjunction with the samples) to get by so far.

How much further I can get remains to be seen...

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia




From tomas at fancy.org  Sat Jun 21 14:31:20 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:31:20 -0700
Subject: unittest and automatically firing off tests
References: <e9o7fvo04c3ocnp352vqbmmhrku30i61h4@4ax.com> <mailman.1056207038.12187.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <r099fvcg4ban07nqc3ad496ub4ftg9ugnt@4ax.com>

Steven Taschuk wrote:

> > 1) Why in the name of all that is holy does unittest.main() throw
> >    regardless of tests passing?
> 
> unittest.main is not intended for use other than
>     if __name__ == '__main__':
>         unittest.main()

ok.  ;)

>     def suite(dirname):
>         """Create a TestSuite for the test files in the given directory."""
>         suite = unittest.TestSuite()
>         for filename in glob.glob(os.path.join(dirname, 'test_*.py')):
>             modname = os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(filename))[0]
>             modfile = file(filename)
>             try:
>                 mod = imp.load_module(modname, modfile, filename,
>                                       ('.py', 'r', imp.PY_SOURCE))
>             finally:
>                 modfile.close()
>             modsuite = unittest.defaultTestLoader.loadTestsFromModule(mod)
>             suite.addTest(modsuite)
>         return suite

Why do you call imp.load_module() here rather than __import__ ?
As a newbie it seems like you're doing a bit more work than is
required, so clearly I'm missing something.

> (Untested.)

Thanks.  I'll give this stuff a whirl.


-tom!



From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Thu Jun 26 04:33:05 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:33:05 +1000
Subject: Reading a binary file
In-Reply-To: <3EFAA842.1070505@semafor.ch>
References: <3EFAA842.1070505@semafor.ch>
Message-ID: <20030626083305.GF17335@frobozz>

On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 10:01:06AM +0200, Sorin Marti wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am quite new to python and very new to this list.
> 
> I've got following problem. I have a binary file which contains 
> information I should read. I can open the file with
> 
> f = open ('cpu1db2.dat', 'rb')
> 
> That's no problem. But now I need the hex values of the binary file.

You can get the hex value of a 1-character string with hex(ord(char)), e.g.:

    >>> char = 'a'
    >>> hex(ord(char))
    '0x61'

But I'm guessing that you might find the 'struct' module even more useful:
    http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-struct.html

-Andrew.





From jfabiani at yolo.com  Tue Jun 10 10:17:21 2003
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (John Fabiani)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:17:21 GMT
Subject: PyUNO connection to OpenOffice
References: <3ee5abaa$1_2@noticias.ulpgc.es> <3ee5dd42$1_2@noticias.ulpgc.es> <mailman.1055252959.25827.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <RLlFa.2556$eK2.1635@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> 
>     Enrique> After checking "netstat -an", as suggested, there is NO entry
>     Enrique> for anythig listening at port 2002. Either OpenOffice is
>     Enrique> running or not.
> 
> I think you've exhausted our expertise (I know you've exhausted mine ;-).
> At this point I think you need to go back to the StarOffice/OpenOffice
> folks (or maybe the PyUNO folks) and ask why it's not listening on port
> 2002. It doesn't look like a Python problem at this point.
> 
> Skip
Start office with ./soffice "-accept=socket,host=localhost,port=2002;urp;"
-- 
John Fabiani



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jun  4 19:39:36 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 19:39:36 -0400
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbl189$fs9$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <bbl6n9$mch$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1054761912.2355.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bblvvo$mvi$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1054761912.2355.python-list at python.org>,
Gerrit Holl  <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
>Aahz schreef op woensdag  4 juni om 18:32:28 +0000:
>>
>> No, Guido will insist on requiring a definition of a set function that
>> raises an exception if you want to make it read-only.
>
>Sure? That's not the current behaviour... It sound reasonable to me though.

Well, he said something like that on python-dev; maybe I misunderstood
him.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Thu Jun 12 18:19:15 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 00:19:15 +0200
Subject: random picks from a list
In-Reply-To: <3ee8dbd6@shknews01>
References: <3ee8dbd6@shknews01>
Message-ID: <20030612221915.GA4489@nl.linux.org>

Rogue9 wrote:
> I?m working on a program for lottery analysing and need to generate
> random numbers from a filtered list of numbers i.e. I have reduced the
> likely ?winning? numbers to a smaller pool and have them in a list. How
> do i use the random funtion in Python to pick random numbers from this
> list?Is this the use of the seq argument in the random function?
> The documentation does not cover the use of all the arguments available
> for this function and my attempts to use if have been a failure.

Just two more cents here:
As of Python 2.3, you can do random.sample(seq, k):

 40 >>> seq
'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ'
 41 >>> random.sample(seq, 10)
['I', 'D', 'u', 'O', 'W', 'H', 'A', 'a', 's', 't']

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
175. If a State slave or the slave of a freed man marry the daughter of
a free man, and children are born, the master of the slave shall have no
right to enslave the children of the free.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 12 12:06:10 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 16:06:10 GMT
Subject: inheritance
References: <bca77e$aq2$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <bca874$cop$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <bca8di$e84$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

For example:

class Base:
    def __init__(self, value):
        self.value = value
    def __mul__(self, other):
        return self.__class__(self.value * other.value)

class Child(Base):
    def __init__(self, value):
        Base.__init__(self, value)

x = Base(2)
y = Base(3)
z = Child(4)
w = Child(5)
print x*y
print z*w

"""OUTPUT
<__main__.Base instance at 0x009991E0>
<__main__.Child instance at 0x009991E0>
"""





From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sun Jun 29 15:56:24 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:56:24 GMT
Subject: (x)range( 40000000000, 40000000001 )
References: <3eff347f$1@buckaroo.cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <IvHLa.7055$oF.2816@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

> It seems range and xrange don't like longs that can't be sqeezed into ints:
>
> With Python 2.3b1+:
>
>  >>> xrange( 40000000000, 40000000001 )
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
>  >>> range( 40000000000, 40000000001 )
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
>  >>>
>
> Its not a critical problem, and I can find a way around it.  It's a just
> little disconcerting that (x)range doesn't work with big longs, and it
> seems it would not be too difficult to make work.

This is intentional.
xrange() is meant to be a fast, lightweight alternative to range().
It has been given the minimum possible functionality.
Use range() or a generator to meet other needs.


Raymond Hettinger





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jun  9 11:58:21 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 17:58:21 +0200
Subject: Scanning for local servers, getting a broadcast address
In-Reply-To: <c9d82136.0306090725.1e351fe9@posting.google.com>
References: <d232c5e.0306090158.6d3c99d6@posting.google.com> <c9d82136.0306090725.1e351fe9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3ee4ae9b$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Noah wrote:

> s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM, socket.IPPROTO_UDP)
> s.bind( ('', 2003) )

            ^^

Note that on some platforms this doesn't work if you have multiple
network addresses. You have to use either "<broadcast>" or the
unique ip address of the network adapter you want to receive the
broadcast packets on.

--Irmen




From dreed at capital.edu  Thu Jun 19 11:19:15 2003
From: dreed at capital.edu (Dave Reed)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:19:15 -0400
Subject: Problem inserting into Postgres (PgSQL) database
In-Reply-To: <3EF195E5.8050909@ghaering.de>
References: <DATAPIPE-AHLQ5KAPV400004a70@datapipe-ahlq5k> <3EF195E5.8050909@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <200306191119.15704.dreed@capital.edu>

On Thursday 19 June 2003 06:52, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> mupeso at arc.sn wrote:
> > [...]
> > try:~~~
> > ~handle=PgSQL.connect(database=configDB, host=configHost, 
user=configUser, 
> > password=configPasswd)
> > ~
> > except PgSQL.OperationalError, e:
> > ~print 'Erreur.'
> > 
> > sql= "insert into radcheck2 
(uid,login,passwd,shell,homedir,domain_name,acc_ex
> > pired) values ("+str(uid) 
+",'"+login+"','"+passwd+"','"+shell+"','"+homedir+"
> > ','"+dom_name+"','n')"
> > 
> > try:
> > ~xcursor = handle.cursor()~~~
> > ~result= xcursor.execute(sql)~~~~
> > ~handle.commit()
> >         xcursor.close()
> > except PgSQL.OperationalError, e:
> > ~print 'ERROR'
> 
> First, like Sean said already, without a .commit() you won't see 
> anything outside the current transaction, that's connected to the 
> database connection you did the insert in.
> 
> Second, your style of constructing SQL is a bad one. Use the DB-API 
way 
> of quoting the various datatypes instead:
> 
> #v+
> sql= """INSERT INTO RADCHECK2
>          (UID, LOGIN, PASSWD, SHELL, HOMEDIR, DOMAIN_NAME, 
ACC_EXPIRED)
>           VALUES (%s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s)""""
> 
> cursor.execute(sql, (uid, login, passwd, shell, homedir, dom_name, 
'n'))
> #v-
> 
> The way you're constructing your SQL statement now is a security 
> vulnerability if any of the fields can come from an untrusted source.

Could you please elaborate on how your method is more secure? Isn't it
the same result since the %s are replaced with the values from the
variable.

Dave






From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sun Jun  8 07:56:06 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 04:56:06 -0700
Subject: solving the metaclass conflict
References: <2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7@posting.google.com> <25b5433d.0306071443.63b27df6@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055044454.21616.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306080356.600320e2@posting.google.com>

mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<mailman.1055044454.21616.python-list at python.org>...
> |>  --> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/204197
> |FYI, note that your implementation doesn't:
> 
> While Michele wrote the abovementioned module, I helped him enhance his
> initial version, so I've thought about it some.  

David, your help was greatly appreciated and you are aknowledged in the
recipe!

> |* Handle multi-level metaclasses (e.g. metametaclasses)
> 
> This I don't get at all.  I've never used a metametaclass (and doubt I
> will).  But even assuming I did, the type() of a metaclass resolves to
> such a metametaclass, and the proposed code should work fine.
> 
> Is something else intended here?

Yes, when I wrote the first version of the code, a couple of months ago, 
I also found a couple of examples involving meta-metaclasses where
_generatemetaclass fails; I don't find them now, but as soon as I do, I
will post them.

  <snip>

> Of course:
> 
>     M = _generatemetaclass((),(A,B,C),0)
>     #-> TypeError: MRO conflict among bases B, C, A
> 
> Which is a bad thing.  Is that the real concern?

Of course not, since this is an issue with the C3 method resolution
order (http://www.python.org/2.3/mro.html) which in principle has nothing
to do with metaclasses. It is correct to have an error in this case, since 
you are putting a less specific class before the more specialized class. 
This is also the reason why

class C(object,type): pass

gives a MRO conflict (under Python 2.3). I am sure you know already that,
it was for the sake of c.l.p. readers ;)

Cheers,


                                                     Michele



From ss3canon at earthlink.net  Mon Jun 16 11:00:11 2003
From: ss3canon at earthlink.net (Michael Nescio)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:00:11 GMT
Subject: Python in Central Florida
Message-ID: <%XkHa.50669$Io.4784551@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

I've been tryin to learn python for the last couple years but I'm having
trouble with grasping the concept. I am the kinda of person that needs a
mentor to learn, I can't just read a .txt file or a book and know what to
do. Is there anyone in the Melbourne area that is willing to teach a
frustraded newbie to get past my learning block? Or does anyone know of a
school that actually teaches python? Any help is greatly appreciated.





From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jun  3 08:38:22 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 03 Jun 2003 13:38:22 +0100
Subject: os.system question
References: <mailman.1054634944.13754.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87llwjbakh.fsf@pobox.com>

Ruslan Spivak <alienoid at is.lg.ua> writes:
[...]
> res = os.system("ping -w 3 192.168.1.1")
> print res
> 
> This gives 256 or another numbers, what am i doing wrong?
[...]

Google for 256 os.system.


John



From joshway_without_spam at myway.com  Fri Jun  6 09:13:09 2003
From: joshway_without_spam at myway.com (Joshua Marshall)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:13:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Postfix/Prefix Operators (++,--)
References: <mailman.1054878191.16140.python-list@python.org> <3EE05E36.40DF739F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bbq415$om3$1@ginger.mathworks.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
...

> Secondly, in Python assignment actually *rebinds* a name to a new
> object, so i = i + 1 creates a new object that is one greater than
> the old, and rebinds the name "i" to it (like a pointer).  The old
> value, if there are no more references to it, is destroyed.

> This, combined with the fact that these integer objects are actually
> *immutable* (they cannot be changed!) pretty much prevents any
> possibility of those operators working the way you'd expected.

++/-- can be added to Python, and could act in a way that wouldn't
surprise C or Java programmers.  There really isn't any conceptual
difference between references to immutabe ints and C/Java primitive
ints.

That said, I still agree adding ++/-- to Python is a bad idea.



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun 26 09:50:06 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:50:06 -0400
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Sep 24)
References: <up14av386chdda@corp.supernews.com> <3d9100c1$1@news.sentex.net> <vfji1l44eee16c@corp.supernews.com> <3EF9E00C.B61DF6AF@engcorp.com> <2xBKa.323243$3n5.245949@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3EFAFA0E.FBC41AEB@engcorp.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
> 
> Cameron Laird is currently away on an expedition with Guido van Rossum's
> time machine, writing the Python URL for September 2007. He will attend to
> your message when he returns to the present.

Yeah, right.  And the words in "Python URL for September" start with the
letters P, S, and U.  Coincidence?  I think



From ed at membled.com  Wed Jun  4 17:10:51 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 22:10:51 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054675867.2029.python-list@python.org> <l1of1dljbd.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054759872.4871.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l1brxdlfac.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:

>    class config(object):
>        def __init__(self):
>            self.colour = 'blue'
>        def setcolour(self, value):
>            self.colour = value
>        def invertcolour(self, dummy):
>            self.colour = inverted[self.colour]
>        # ...
>
>    cfg = config()
>    for cmd, arg in commands:
>        getattr(cfg, cmd)(arg)
>    print 'colour is now', cfg.colour
>
>Some refinements are in order (e.g., to prevent the configuration
>file from invoking __init__), but the idea is clear.

Yes, that works, although I think I would prefer to define setcolour,
invertcolour and so on as stand-alone functions and then say

    table = {'setcolour': setcolour, ...}

which does duplicate the names, but takes care of the __init__ problem
at the same time, so it's not so bad.  It's just frustrating not to be
able to write the function definitions inline, in the obvious place,
especially when they might be only one line each and there is the
'lambda' keyword which at first looks so inviting and useful.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From simonb at webone.com.au  Sat Jun  7 22:28:17 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 12:28:17 +1000
Subject: Prolog-style unification?
References: <HlmEa.107$Hw.137249@news2.news.adelphia.net> <mailman.1055018594.20123.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.08.02.28.12.52487@webone.com.au>

On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 14:38:40 -0600, junk wrote:

> Hi Robert,
> 
> I am working on a Master's Thesis currently where this issue is of 
> concern.  I would also like to know if there is such a module.
> 
> In the mean time, I have written my own module which does a pretty good 
> job of simulating Prolog style calls.  Here is what my syntax looks like 
> right now:
> 
> import logic
> Father = logic.Fact()
> Father("Seth","Alex")
> Father("James","Seth")
> X = logic.LogicalVariable()
> Y = logic.LgocialVariable()

too verbose for me. howbout just Var ?

> while Father(X,Y):
>     print X, Y

Know about iterators?

i'd like to see
for x,y in Father():
  print x, y

are you trying too hard to adhere to prolog syntax maybe?

> 
> print "--------------"
> 
> Grandfather = logic.Fact()
> Grandfather(Grandfather.Grandfather, Grandfather.Grandson) (
>     Father(Grandfather.Grandfather, Grandfather.Son)
>     Father(Grandfather.Son, Grandfather.Grandson))

does this use __getattr__ hooks? otherwise where does the attributes of
Grandfather come from?

> 
> while Grandfather(X,Y):
>     print X,Y
> 
> 
> The output of this is:
> 
> James Seth
> Seth Alex
> ------------------
> James Alex
> 
> I'm still tracking down bugs all the time, but it's getting pretty good.
> 
> Would you PLEASE let me know what you think?
> 
> -- Seth James Nielson


Excellent; i'd like to see more logic for python stuff.
Please post your code!

Simon Burton.






From fnord at u.washington.edu  Thu Jun 19 13:49:15 2003
From: fnord at u.washington.edu (Lonnie Princehouse)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 10:49:15 -0700
Subject: Need help optimizing first script
References: <a34b632.0306190503.32483efe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f70e3538.0306190949.3379f8f4@posting.google.com>

Hi Frederic, welcome to Python.

I find that it's helpful to use the raw string syntax when 
mucking about with lots of Windows paths, i.e. r'\\server\foo'
instead of '\\\\server\\foo'

The formatting operator can be more readable than adding strings:
    execlog = r'%s\logs\trace%s.log' % (dirSource, fDate)
instead of 
    execlog = dirSource + '\\logs\\trace' + fDate + '.log'   

Whenever you find yourself doing something like this:
>     (Iyear, Imonth, Iday, Ihour, Iminute) = (time.localtime(now)[:5])
>     year = str(Iyear)
>     month = str(Imonth)
>     day = str(Iday)
>     hour = str(Ihour)
>     minute = str(Iminute)

It can probably also be with map():

year, month, day, hour, minute = map(str, time.localtime(now)[:5])





popup391 at yahoo.com (Frederic Lafleche) wrote in message news:<a34b632.0306190503.32483efe at posting.google.com>...
> I put this script together mainly from bits and pieces I picked up in
> this newsgroup and one or two books lying around. What it does is map
> a given NT network drive and copy a file to it if some conditions are
> met.  As this is my first script, I'm looking for ways to improve code
> in any possible way, whether it's overall design, style, grammar,
> logic, readability, performance, validation, anything.
> 
> #copyacs.py
> import os, shutil, sys, time, win32file
> from win32wnet import WNetAddConnection2, error
> 
> # Functions
> 
> # Generate timestamp
> # OUTPUT: string in yyymmddhhmm format
> def determineFN():
>     # Get current time
>     now = time.time()
>     # Parse elements
>     (Iyear, Imonth, Iday, Ihour, Iminute) = (time.localtime(now)[:5])
>     year = str(Iyear)
>     month = str(Imonth)
>     day = str(Iday)
>     hour = str(Ihour)
>     minute = str(Iminute)
>       
>     # Padding
>     if len(month) == 1:
>         month = '0' + month
>     if len(day) == 1:
>         day = '0' + day
>     if len(hour) == 1:
>         hour = '0' + hour
>     if len(minute) == 1:
>         minute = '0' + minute
> 
>     return year + month + day + hour + minute
> 
> # Map network drive
> def use (drive, host, user, passwd):
>     try:
>         WNetAddConnection2 (1, drive, host, None, user, passwd)
>         return 0
>     except error:
>         return 1
> 
> # Variable assignments
> 
> devicename = 'I:' # Enter network drive number.  Ex. format: 'Z:'
> dirTarget = devicename + '\\it\\popup' # Enter target path.
> sharename = '\\\\afs\\grps'            # Enter shared resource name.  
> username = 'login' # Enter user account inside single quotes
> password = 'password' # Enter user password inside single quotes
> drives = []                                 
> drivemask = win32file.GetLogicalDrives()    # Bitmask
> acsMode = sys.argv[1]    # Get second command-line argument of list.
>                          # (First argument is program name.)
> dirSource = 'd:\\oracle\\acs\\' + acsMode   # Source directory
> acsfile = 'import.txt'                      # File to copy
> sourceacsfile = dirSource + '\\' + acsfile  # Absolute path
> 
> # Main body
> 
> fDate = determineFN()
> execlog = dirSource + '\\logs\\trace' + fDate + '.log'                
>          # Operations log
> timestring = time.strftime("%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S",
> time.localtime(time.time()))    # Timestamp
> 
> if os.path.isdir(dirSource + '\\logs'):     # Log path exists?
>     fObject = open (execlog, 'w')
>     fObject.write(timestring + '\n')
> else:
>     sys.exit()
> 
> # List drives
> for drive in range(ord("A"), ord("Z") ):
>      if drivemask & 1 != 0:
>           drives.append( chr(drive) )
>      drivemask = drivemask >> 1
> 
> # Cut ":" suffix off devicename.
> # To test whether a value is in the list, use *in*,
> # which returns 1 if the value is found or 0 if it is not.
> 
> # If drive not mapped, map it.
> if devicename[0] not in drives:
>     if not (use(devicename, sharename, username, password)):
>         fObject.write('Cannot map device.\n')
>   
> if os.path.isfile(sourceacsfile):           # Source file exists?
>     if os.path.isdir(dirTarget):            # Target path exists?
>         shutil.copyfile(sourceacsfile, dirTarget + '\\' + acsfile)
>         fObject.write(sourceacsfile + ' copied.\n')
>         if os.path.isdir(dirSource + '\\sav'):
>             os.rename(sourceacsfile, dirSource + '\\sav\\import' +
> fDate + '.txt')
>     else:
>         fObject.write('Cannot access destination path ' + dirTarget +
> '.\n')
> else:
>     fObject.write('Source file ' + sourceacsfile + ' does not
> exist.\n')
>     fObject.write('Transfer aborted.\n')
> 
> fObject.close()
> 
> # End of main body



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun 19 16:01:33 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:01:33 -0400
Subject: testing two lists for equality
References: <3064b51d.0306191140.3d4094fe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF2169D.3590ECBD@engcorp.com>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> 
> If x and y are both lists (or tuples), is the expression
> 
> (x == y)
> 
> true if and only if len(x) = len(y) and all of the corresponding
> elements in x and y are the same?
> 
> I did not see this behavior documented in "Python Essential
> Reference", but it makes sense and agrees with a few experiments I
> did.

http://python.org/doc/current/ref/comparisons.html might help.

It basically implies what you said above, if you take "lexicographically"
to mean something like "item by item".



From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Mon Jun 16 07:36:00 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:36:00 +0400
Subject: getting info out of a list.
In-Reply-To: <7tntr-qa9.ln1@grendel.myth>
References: <7tntr-qa9.ln1@grendel.myth>
Message-ID: <bcka31$12ka$1@news.peterlink.ru>

Jim Richardson wrote:

> I have the following code 
> 
> for wires in wirelist.keys():
>         bits=wirelist[wires]
>         Wire=("GW",wires,bits)
>         print Wire
> 
> 
> Which, depending on the data in wirelist, results in something like, 
> 
> ('GW', 1, (11, 0, -500, 0, 0, 500, 0, 10))
> 
> 
> But what I want is 
> 
> ('GW', 1, 11, 0, -500, 0, 0, 500, 0, 10)
> 
> I want the tuple that is returned from the dict wirelist, to be added as
> individual elements, rather than a tuple of individual elements, to the
> list "bits"
> 
> (I hope I have explained this properly)
> 
> 
> I know I am missing something fundamental, but I can't figure out what.
> Any suggestions on where to look? or what I am missing? Thanks. 
> 
> 
  And just my two cents: your for loop could be rewritten a little bit 
more effeciently and (IMHO) clearly:

for wires, names in wirelist.iteritems():
      Wire = ("GW", wires) + bits
      print Wire

hth,
anton




From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Jun 22 14:46:31 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:46:31 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Remove duplicate letters in a word
In-Reply-To: <20030622175944.90698.qmail@web21603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306222243360.31891-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

One more interesting method to do the same:

import sets
def nodups2(s):
  l = map(lambda x: (s.index(x[1]),x[0]), enumerate(sets.Set(s)))
  l.sort()
  return "".join(map(lambda x: s[x[0]], l))

print nodups2('secret')


This implementation uses the fact that index gives the first 
encounter of a symbol in a string.


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From rui_maciel at mail.com  Thu Jun 19 20:25:56 2003
From: rui_maciel at mail.com (Rui Maciel)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:25:56 +0000
Subject: Newbie to Python
References: <mailman.1054286813.10677.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tvk4fv87vjpp8gltbf4pmnu6nlg94rcuu0@4ax.com>

On Fri, 30 May 2003 14:56:32 +0530, "Vijay Anand R."
<Vijayanandr at elind.com> wrote:

>hai
>
>welcome to the world of python
>
<snip>
>3. python shld be installed to run python

Hi there

I'm also a newbie (as newbie as they get) and I would like to know how
can I tell if I have Python installed on my computer or not.

I downloaded the 2.2package from www.python.org and ran the thing but
honestly I can't tell if this is working or not

P.S.: I installed it because of blender. I want those 3DS exporting
scripts up and running :)



From bh at intevation.de  Wed Jun 18 13:33:44 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 19:33:44 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.1.2
References: <slrnbf126d.67u.alf@largo.fayauffre.org> <6q1xxrpcu0.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055954971.32710.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6qwufjnvd3.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

>     Bernhard> The feature I would like to see most in such a tool would be
>     Bernhard> that it doesn't try to execute the code it's checking. Just
>     Bernhard> like pychecker, pylint imports the modules it checks,
> 
> Check out pychecker2.  Development seems to have stalled for quite some time
> and it has many fewer tests, but I believe it parses the code it analyzes
> instead of importing the bytecode.

I didn't know about pychecker2, thanks. It does indeed seem not to
execute the code.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jun 29 19:10:57 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 01:10:57 +0200
Subject: File sharing
In-Reply-To: <bdnmkd$ugc4a$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>
References: <0zxLa.156922$pR3.3597279@news1.tin.it> <3efec019$0$49098$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <bdnmkd$ugc4a$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3eff7200$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Dave Kuhlman wrote:

> Also, you might be interested in Pyro:
> 
>     http://pyro.sourceforge.net/

LOL, that should have been my comment ;-)

I know of a few Pyro projects that actually *do* use Pyro
to transfer files across the network. One of them is rather
interesting, the files are digital images produced by an
earth-orbiting sattelite.. :-)

--Irmen




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Tue Jun  3 02:58:16 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 06:58:16 GMT
Subject: Porridge 0.0
References: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <VYNCa.66$5L6.15@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <mailman.1054587904.7131.python-list@python.org> <l1he77mztp.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbdoi2k.che.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 03 Jun 2003 07:37:22 +0100, Ed Avis wrote:
> Phil Thompson <phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk> writes:
> > [name a programming language] "that has a connection with a popular
> > 1970s BBC comedy show".
> 
> The answer they guessed was Porridge, a sitcom set in a prison!  I'm
> sure nobody here considers that an appropriate answer...

Google tells me that nobody has yet named a programming language
"Porridge".  This opportunity is too good to miss; so:


Porridge 0.0 announced
----------------------

Due to the extreme readability and reusability of most Python code, a
fork has been announced that will correct this rampant code quality:
Porridge.

Building on the success of Python to date, Porridge will correct all the
flaws that have been raised by opponents of Python.

Features of Porridge 0.0 will include:

  - All standard library functions will be duplicated at least three
    times, in disparate modules, with different names and argument lists

  - No indentation allowed; blocks are delimited by common consent among
    your programming peers

  - [... I'm sure others can fill in this feature list ...]

-- 
 \          "Instead of a trap door, what about a trap window? The guy |
  `\      looks out it, and if he leans too far, he falls out. Wait. I |
_o__)             guess that's like a regular window."  -- Jack Handey |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From claird at lairds.com  Wed Jun  4 11:05:46 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:05:46 -0000
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054726447.7340.python-list@python.org> <bbkuu3$t24$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <vds2mandjdvp48@corp.supernews.com>

In article <bbkuu3$t24$1 at panix3.panix.com>, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>In article <mailman.1054726447.7340.python-list at python.org>,
>Gerrit Holl  <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
>>
>>Smalltalk isn't practical. 
>
>That's not quite true.  I know plenty of Smalltalk programmers who would
>disagree, and Squeak is making some inroads.
			.
			.
			.
But it's almost true.  As fond as I am of Squeak--and,
let's note, *correct* programs, as Smalltalk facilitates,
are eminently practical--I think Smalltalk is on the
mostly-wrong side of a great historical divide.  Python's
made to play nicely with others; you can extend it, embed
it, wrap it, call out from it, connect to OS-level resources,
and so on.  Smalltalk's a consummate expression of a more
insular model, where everything *is* Smalltalk.  With a gun
to my head, I'd be willing to abbreviate that as "impractical".
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From MatthewS at HeyAnita.com  Thu Jun 19 15:44:39 2003
From: MatthewS at HeyAnita.com (Matt Shomphe)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 12:44:39 -0700
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
References: <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6@posting.google.com> <94974e1a.0306182332.5d0c4ac8@posting.google.com> <bcshoh$kb8$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <5ab0af73.0306191144.7c82f70d@posting.google.com>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote in message news:

[snip]
> Better to measure it! I've written a test script. By the way: your
> method has an error, because it chops off the last element
> unconditionally ... Having a lot of people compare code produces
> alternatives, which in my opinion comes before passing tests.
> Tests can be done later.
> 
> So below's my script (based partly on your idea and those of some
> other posters).
> 

Excellent!  I've added some other functions (en(), xrng(), &
inplace2()) and used the profile module to run the test (of course,
the numbers vary with each run):

--------------------------------------------------
# testlist.py

import random, profile
import time

def zipped(L):
    return  list(L[:1]) + [x for x,y in zip(L[1:],L[:-1]) if x!=y] 
def ranged(L):
    return list(L[:1])+[L[i] for i in xrange(1,len(L))
        if L[i] != L[i-1]]
def inplace(thelist):
    i=0
    for item in thelist:
        if item==thelist[i]: continue
        i+=1
        thelist[i]=item
    del thelist[i+1:]
    return thelist
def xrng(l):
    return([l[i] for i in xrange(len(l)) if i == 0 or l[i-1] !=l[i]])
def en(l):
    try:
        return([x for i,x in enumerate(l) if i == 0 or x !=l[i-1]])
    except NameError:
        print "You need python v 2.3 or higher"
        return(l)
    
def inplace2(l):
    for i in xrange(len(l)):
        if i == 0 or l[i] != l[i-1]: continue
        del l[i]
    return(l)

if __name__=='__main__':
    n = 100000
    uniques = 10
    U=range(uniques)
 
    def choice():
        return random.choice(U)
    # Make sure that all the functions return 
    # the correct values with a small test

    testL = [6,3,3,3,4,5,6,7,7,8,8,9,6]
    funcs = [zipped,ranged,inplace,xrng,en,inplace2]
    arr = map(lambda f: f(testL), funcs)
    for val in arr:
        assert val == arr[-1]
    L = [choice() for i in range(n)] #build the test list
    funclist = ['zipped(L)','ranged(L)','inplace(L)','xrng(L)','en(L)','inplace2(L)']
# The list of functions
    for f in funclist: #run it!
        profile.run('%s'%f)
---------------------------------------------------------

Here are the results:

---------------------------------------------------------

         3 function calls in 0.689 CPU seconds

   Ordered by: standard name

   ncalls  tottime  percall  cumtime  percall
filename:lineno(function)
        1    0.003    0.003    0.685    0.685 <string>:1(?)
        0    0.000             0.000          profile:0(profiler)
        1    0.004    0.004    0.689    0.689 profile:0(zipped(L))
        1    0.682    0.682    0.682    0.682 testlist.py:4(zipped)


         3 function calls in 0.255 CPU seconds

   Ordered by: standard name

   ncalls  tottime  percall  cumtime  percall
filename:lineno(function)
        1    0.004    0.004    0.254    0.254 <string>:1(?)
        0    0.000             0.000          profile:0(profiler)
        1    0.001    0.001    0.255    0.255 profile:0(ranged(L))
        1    0.251    0.251    0.251    0.251 testlist.py:6(ranged)


         3 function calls in 0.182 CPU seconds

   Ordered by: standard name

   ncalls  tottime  percall  cumtime  percall
filename:lineno(function)
        1    0.000    0.000    0.181    0.181 <string>:1(?)
        1    0.001    0.001    0.182    0.182 profile:0(inplace(L))
        0    0.000             0.000          profile:0(profiler)
        1    0.181    0.181    0.181    0.181 testlist.py:9(inplace)


         3 function calls in 0.277 CPU seconds

   Ordered by: standard name

   ncalls  tottime  percall  cumtime  percall
filename:lineno(function)
        1    0.004    0.004    0.276    0.276 <string>:1(?)
        0    0.000             0.000          profile:0(profiler)
        1    0.002    0.002    0.277    0.277 profile:0(xrng(L))
        1    0.272    0.272    0.272    0.272 testlist.py:17(xrng)


         3 function calls in 0.299 CPU seconds

   Ordered by: standard name

   ncalls  tottime  percall  cumtime  percall
filename:lineno(function)
        1    0.003    0.003    0.298    0.298 <string>:1(?)
        1    0.001    0.001    0.299    0.299 profile:0(en(L))
        0    0.000             0.000          profile:0(profiler)
        1    0.295    0.295    0.295    0.295 testlist.py:19(en)


         3 function calls in 0.169 CPU seconds

   Ordered by: standard name

   ncalls  tottime  percall  cumtime  percall
filename:lineno(function)
        1    0.000    0.000    0.168    0.168 <string>:1(?)
        1    0.001    0.001    0.169    0.169 profile:0(inplace2(L))
        0    0.000             0.000          profile:0(profiler)
        1    0.168    0.168    0.168    0.168 testlist.py:26(inplace2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems that inplace() & inplace2() are always fastest (although I'm
a little leery of inplace2()...)



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jun  6 10:46:06 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:46:06 -0500
Subject: diff --brief
In-Reply-To: <bbq7sv$c69ni$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
References: <bbq7sv$c69ni$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <16096.43310.127486.268819@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Thomas> I need a method like diff --brief which tells my wether two
    Thomas> files differ.

    Thomas> I looked at filecmp.cmp(), but this does not seem to do what I
    Thomas> want.

Did you try difflib?  Looks like difflib.ndiff() might do what you want.

Skip




From andrew at acooke.org  Sun Jun  1 17:41:03 2003
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: 01 Jun 2003 17:41:03 -0400
Subject: Some pythonic advice needed
In-Reply-To: <hQsCa.32080$1u5.2323@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
References: <EOmCa.31502$1u5.2321@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
	<2946028.1054494609@dbforums.com>
	<hQsCa.32080$1u5.2323@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <877k85o4r4.fsf@acooke.org>

Rudy Schockaert <rudy.schockaert at pandora.be> writes:
> I have received lot's of valuable inputs. Thank you all.

any chance of publishing what you finally produce?  i once did
something similar when first learning spanish, but lost it long ago
(it didn't have support for multiple translations (or accents - i used
to use capitals for accented letters!)) - i think it might be a good
idea if i used one again (my spanish seems to be stuck at "good enough
to live here, but still sounding like a stupid gringo...")

cheers,
andrew

-- 
http://www.acooke.org





From rudy.schockaert at pandora.be  Tue Jun 24 16:34:31 2003
From: rudy.schockaert at pandora.be (Rudy Schockaert)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:34:31 GMT
Subject: Mapi Attachment method WriteToFile throws exception ...
In-Reply-To: <bf49679f.0306240902.279dca73@posting.google.com>
References: <bf49679f.0306231512.57ad4475@posting.google.com> <bf49679f.0306240902.279dca73@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF8B5D6.8050800@pandora.be>

Peter Curran wrote:
> Answering my own thread here in case someone else is interested. For
> some reason CDO doesn't support what I was trying to do through MAPI,
> or there's a bug or something, so I ended up using the Outlook object
> model instead of the MAPI one.
> 

Searching the MSDN database ( http://msdn.microsoft.com ) learns the 
following:

The 80004005 error message indicates that your data cannot be accessed. 
This error can be paraphrased as "I could not access your data for some 
reason."

This could mean a lot of things (corrupt data in your mailbox for 
example). What I suggest you to do is print out the subject and the 
folder of the mail your accessing and then examine the mail with another 
tool like OutlookSpy (try google) to find out what's wrong with it.

Rudy




From morten at nidelven-it.no  Fri Jun 13 20:57:17 2003
From: morten at nidelven-it.no (Morten W. Petersen)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 02:57:17 +0200
Subject: Binding socket to an address
In-Reply-To: <3ee5eb48$1@news.broadpark.no>
References: <bb8e9cd9.0306100543.139a76fe@posting.google.com> <3ee5eb48$1@news.broadpark.no>
Message-ID: <3EEA72ED.3010809@nidelven-it.no>

"Gisle Vanem" <giva at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:

 > Godag. What do you need the bind() for? Looks like you're making
 > a client-program. If you'd made a server program, you need bind() and
 > listen().

It's a client program.  :)

The program is run on a server with multiple IPs, and I want it to
originate from a specific IP address.

Regards,

Morten W. Petersen

--
Technologies: Zope, Linux, Python, HTML, CSS, PHP
     Homepage: http://www.nidelven-it.no
Phone number: (+47) 45 44 00 69





From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jun  1 00:20:05 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 1 Jun 2003 04:20:05 GMT
Subject: Request for feedback on my first Python program
References: <MPG.194096b51af188bb9896f0@news.hevanet.com> <slrnbdeevn.694.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net> <PDkJf9EB5U2+EAgJ@bamboo.datamage.net> <20030601021106.GA7831@mephisto.ghaering.de> <mailman.1054438441.19004.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbbutl$c14$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 1 Jun 2003 05:30:39 +0200, Sean Legassick <sean at datamage.net> wrote:

>In message <20030601021106.GA7831 at mephisto.ghaering.de>, Gerhard Haering 
><gh at ghaering.de> writes
>>No offence intended, but your code is redundant as well ;-)
>>
>>def isMeaningful(line):
>>    return not line.startswith("#")
>
>Indeed, that is cleaner.
>
but at the expense of being wrong ;-)

    def isMeaningful(line):
        assert line==line.strip() # to document the assumption
        return bool(line) and not line.startswith("#")

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jun 19 16:43:20 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:43:20 -0400
Subject: gc questions
References: <vf0jrcqko71j76@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1055950263.24570.python-list@python.org> <vf20kaeeu5pgbe@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1056041615.9951.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yqmcnfrsVNf0vW-jXTWJjA@comcast.com>

"Jeremy Hylton" <jeremy at zope.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1056041615.9951.python-list at python.org...
> On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 20:23, Edward K. Ream wrote:
> > Many thanks, Jeremy, for these hints.  Yes, a dictionary speeds
things up a
> > lot.  dict[o] = o won't work for unhashable objects o, so here is
the code I
> > use.  It seems reliable and fast:
> >
> >     global lastObjectsDict
> >
> >     objects = gc.get_objects()
> >     newObjects = [o for o in objects if not
lastObjectsDict.has_key(id(o))]
> >
> >     lastObjectsDict = {}
> >     for o in objects:
> >         lastObjectsDict[id(o)]=o
> >
> >     print "%d new, %d total objects" %
(len(newObjects),len(objects))
>
> The dict using id() trick is convenient in practice, but it has some
> problems.  It's possible for an address to get re-used, so that two
> different objects get the same id() on two different invocations of
this
> code.  I expect this is pretty likely for objects that are
implemented
> with their own free lists.  Whether this is a problem or not depends
on
> what you are trying to do.

I once thought of the same trick, before I realized that uniquness is
only guaranteed for any partiuclar moment in time.  'Possible' is
quite easy to bring about when objects are allow to be deleted

>>> id(()), id(())
(7669904, 7669904)
>>> id([]), id([])
(7947216, 7947216)
>>> id({}),id({})
(7946592, 7946592)
>>> id(1001), id(1001)
(7691524, 7691524)

but will not happen when the object is strored as part of the value
corresponding to its id key, as above.

Terry J. Reedy





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Fri Jun 27 20:21:18 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 28 Jun 2003 10:11:18 +0950
Subject: pygresql
References: <pan.2003.06.28.00.10.45.319093@grex_nospam_.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbfpp1e.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 01:10:46 +0100, trewornan wrote:
> I'm trying to install pygresql on mandrake 9.1 but when I try "python
> setup.py build" I get the error - "cannot find
> /usr/lib/python2.2/config/makefile"

The files needed for running a library, like Python, are different to
(mostly a subset of) the files needed for developing something to link
to that library.

You'll find all the libraries in your GNU/Linux system come as (at
least) two separate packages: a run-time library package for users of
the library, and a developer's library package containing extra files
for building packages that link to the library.

Install the developer's library for Python.  On many GNU/Linux systems,
it's packaged as python-2.2-dev or similar.  This will give you the
files needed to compile other packages that depend on Python's C
bindings.  (It will coexist with the run-time package.)

Note that the *-dev packages are needed only when acting as a developer
(i.e. compiling something); running the resulting code only requires the
run-time library (hence the name).  Thus, once you've built what you
need to build, you can remove any developer library packages if you
choose, leaving only the run-time packages installed.

-- 
 \          "Immorality: The morality of those who are having a better |
  `\                                       time."  -- Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jun  3 14:42:39 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 19:42:39 +0100
Subject: Yield inside try...finally
References: <bbiisd$76k$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3EDCEC1F.96CB0766@hotmail.com>

Michael Sparks wrote:

> What I'd *like* to do (which doesn't work) is:
> 
> try:
>    sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM);
>    try:
>       sock.setblocking(0); yield stage.done(0)
>       try:
>          sock.connect((self.host, self.port)); yield stage.done(1)
>          yield newComponent([self.setupCSA(sock)])
>          while self.waitCSAClose():
>             yield stage.current(2)
>          yield stage.done(2)
>       finally:
>          result = s.shutdown(1) ; yield stage.done(3)
>    finally:
>       sock.close() ; yield stage.done(4)
> except error, e:
>    # Would handle error more interestingly here
>    print stage.lastdone, e
> 

OK, I think this one works now. I've coded and successfully run a dummy
version which reacts properly, even when exceptions are explicitly raised.

The code below obviously won't run, because the "yield"s are used outside of a
function definition. But it is a direct modification of the code you said you
would like to have.

You will still have to *guarantee* that the generator is resumed for this to
work.

#--------------------------------------------------

class Finality(Exception): pass

try:
  sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM);
  try:
    sock.setblocking(0); yield stage.done(0)
    try:
      sock.connect((self.host, self.port)); yield stage.done(1)
      yield newComponent([self.setupCSA(sock)])
      while self.waitCSAClose():
        yield stage.current(2)
      yield stage.done(2)
      raise Finality
    except Exception, x:
      result = s.shutdown(1) ; yield stage.done(3)
      raise x
  except Exception, x:
    sock.close() ; yield stage.done(4)
    raise x
except error, e:
  # Would handle error more interestingly here
  print stage.lastdone, e
except Finality:
  pass

#--------------------------------------------------

fingers crossed behind back, alan hopes he won't embarass
himself again, and gives a nervous smilie :-}

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From h_schneider at marketmix.com  Tue Jun 24 10:50:30 2003
From: h_schneider at marketmix.com (Harald Schneider)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:50:30 +0200
Subject: Determine a NT service's executable name ?
Message-ID: <bd9ofl$m72$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

is there a possibility how to determine a services executable file name (and
path) from within the service itself ?

I need to create multiple services of the same application. The app needs to
read a config file, which name depends on the name of the application's
executable itself. So hardcoding it in the registry is no solution ...


--Harald





From mcherm at mcherm.com  Fri Jun  6 17:05:41 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Fri,  6 Jun 2003 14:05:41 -0700
Subject: Thread State and the Global Interpreter Lock
Message-ID: <1054933541.3ee10225dbfe0@mcherm.com>

Afanasiy writes:
> Are there plans to make the Python interpreter 
> "fully thread safe" in a future version?
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/threads.html

No, the Global Interpreter Lock will not be going away in
any forseeable version of Python. (Well, of cPython anyhow.)
But the document you referred to is somewhat misleading.
It is written from the point of view of Guido or others
who are writing Python itself (the interpreter). The code
that these people write is not "fully thread safe", and
because of that, the Global Interpreter Lock must exist.

But if you are writing programs IN Python, they they ARE
fully thread safe. You can launch threads and do whatever
you like in them. The only issue is that because of the
Global Interpreter Lock, only one thread will be executing
new Python bytecodes at a time. If you have only one CPU,
then that is no restriction at all... after all, ALL
multithreading must be done by taking turns. If most of
your threads are blocked waiting for things like file or
socket IO (a very common use for threads) then that's no
problem... the threads that are waiting won't hold up any
others. And if your threads are busy calling out to some
lengthy computation written in C (the best place for a CPU 
intensive calculation), then _IF_ the author of the C
extension used the Global Interpreter Lock (GIL for short)
properly, it won't hold up your program. And if you DO
happen to have a multi-processor machine, aren't running
anything else but this Python program, and are doing
lengthy computations (written in Python) in multiple
threads, well then only one of your CPUs will be working
at a time.

It's a wart (if only a small, special case one), and I'm
sure that the Python maintainers would love to fix it.
But they've considered it and decided that it would require
some VERY deep changes in cPython... rewriting the very
core of it. So they're not planning to do it. (Although
the new version coming out very soon now has some
improvements to make it easier for C programmers to make
their extensions cooperate like they ought to.)

If you'd like to, there are a few options. I think that
the best option is to simply try it and see... in all
likelihood you'll find that Python is "fast enough" as it
is, and if not, there are lots of other ways to achieve
large speedups. Threading behavior is NOT likely to be
the biggest contributor. But if you're doing specialty
work and already know that your compute threads must make
simultaneous use of multiple CPUs, then you have a couple
of alternatives. Jython, the java-based implementation of
Python does not have this restriction (assuming that the
JVM you use doesn't have a similar limitation), although
it's usually slower than cPython. Or you could take a
look at the source to Python and see if you can figure
out a clever solution that others have missed. If you DID
contribute a "fix", I'm sure it would be gleefully 
accepted (after being vigorously tested).

-- Michael Chermside





From husam at macrozon.net  Thu Jun  5 12:39:30 2003
From: husam at macrozon.net (Husam)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:39:30 +0200
Subject: Newbie: How do you enable python scripts in apache server?
References: <3EDF5EC6.6050704@sci.kun.nl> <bbnogq$bb9ut$1@fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bbnrti$dlr$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl>

> This seems not so much a python issue then a apache-configuration issue.
Indeed, I tried to look for apache configuration on google but couldn't find
any thing usable.

> ScriptAlias /url_for_scriptdir "/scriptdir"
I will try this one.






From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Jun 11 13:57:39 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:57:39 -0300
Subject: Handling kill signals
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D01885612@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- you should catch the TERM signal, not KILL.
#- 
#-   -- erno

?TERM is the signal sent with 'kill' and KILL is the signal sent with 'kill
-9'?

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Fri Jun 20 01:53:04 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:53:04 -0600
Subject: testing two lists for equality
In-Reply-To: <eppstein-A3D96D.22143719062003@news.service.uci.edu>; from eppstein@ics.uci.edu on Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 10:14:37PM -0700
References: <3064b51d.0306191140.3d4094fe@posting.google.com> <3EF2169D.3590ECBD@engcorp.com> <BswIa.3239$38.1069@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <eppstein-A3D96D.22143719062003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <20030619235304.I2522@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth David Eppstein:
  [...]
> The difference is that "lexicographically" has a recognized precise 
> mathematical meaning.  Your alternatives don't convey that meaning to me 
> unless you describe what you do with the results of the sequential 
> comparisons, e.g.
  [expansion of "lexicographically"]
> But that seems a bit cumbersome to me...

I'd leave "lexicographically" in the main flow of text, but add a
footnote explaining the term, with text such as David suggests.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                   w_w
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      ,-= U
                                                               1 1




From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Jun 18 05:15:50 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:15:50 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it>

Tim Rowe wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:56:14 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it>
> wrote:
> 
>>I guess that's the crux of the matter -- and this "research you've
>>seen" appears to give results that directly contradict the everyday
>>experience reported by the growing band of users of dynamically
>>typed languages.
> 
> [fx: looks at unstable four-foot pile of unsorted technical papers]
> Er, there will be a short delay at this point! (Though if it prompts
> me to sort that pile out at last then something good will have come of
> this!)

I will (slightly, I hope) breach netiquette by asking for a mail Cc of
those pointers you may eventually unearth -- I'm leaving day after
tomorrow for a long and convoluted trip and following news while at
conventions, sprints &c is quite a problem...


> Don't forget that I'm here because I /like/ Python, by the way -- I
> just don't think it's right for /everything/.  I don't think /any/
> language /can/ be!

I agree, and indeed believe that the attempts to make languages that
ARE good at everything produce languages that are just too large to
fit comfortably in most humans' heads.

But this has little to do with the need of 'type declarations'.  I
suspect that a statically typed language would also be better off
without them, relying on type inferencing instead, a la Haskell (and
Haskell's typeclasses to keep the inferencing as wide as feasible),
for example.  But I have no research to back this up;-).


Alex




From joch at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Jun  2 15:23:41 2003
From: joch at blueyonder.co.uk (John Ochiltree)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 20:23:41 +0100
Subject: Python get's a mention on University Challenge
Message-ID: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Hi all, thought you may like to know that the UK TV programme 
'University Challenge' of 2nd June has just had 'The Python Programming 
Language' as the answer to a question in a round about programming 
languages (the other languages were Pascal and Eiffel).

Now we get mentioned on quiz shows, where next?

John




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jun 13 12:23:27 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:23:27 -0400
Subject: Execute a process as a specific user
References: <3EE9E547.9040209@wanadoo.es> <3EE9ECF8.1A6E41DA@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3EE9FA7F.1EAD08F0@engcorp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> > os.system("su usuario -c comando")
> >
> > Can i make this whitout the "su" command
> 
> Sure!  Log in as root, then run the script.

Ignore that part of my post.   I was thinking of sudo,
not "su someuser -c"...   Didn't actually read what
I was responding to, I guess.    :-(

-Peter



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Jun  6 23:36:28 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 23:36:28 -0400
Subject: Numeric don't compare arrays correctly
In-Reply-To: <yfs7k7ylsqz.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
References: <3EDFBACD.2090802@wanadoo.es> <yfsbrxbufxn.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <yfs7k7zue8f.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <mailman.1054933814.2728.python-list@python.org> <yfs7k7ylsqz.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3EE15DBC.6090607@rogers.com>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
...

>>>``3 < 1 < 4`` (False in python, True in most other languages where it isn't a
>>>syntax error)
>>>      
>>>
...

>Well, it is only obvious because you (and I) are already used to a rather
>hackish notation.
>
Ah, but what I'm saying is that, if you see this construct:
    a < b < c

then the only non-hackish interpretation is a is less than b which is 
less than c, which is taken directly from mathematics.  The hackish 
(low-level, fiddly) intpretation says "what would the machine do" and 
figures out that it's grouping the statements and basically producing 
random data ;) .

>>Hopefully all those languages with these semantics issue a strong warning
>>during compilation (1/5 ;) ) that this statement does nothing useful and
>>should never be used in anything save obfuscated code contests :) .
>>    
>>
>
>Nope:
>
>#include <stdio.h>
>
>int main()
>{
>    printf("Is 1 < 1 < 1 true? %d\n", 1 < 1 < 1);
>    return 0;
>}
>  
>
>>gcc -Wall /tmp/ex.c
>>a.out
>>    
>>
>Is the 1 < 1 < 1 true? 1
>
And here I was trying to protect the guilty ;) .

>I tend to agree, but in this case I'm not so sure. After all pythons
>conformance with the expected "common sense" behavior breaks down nastily for
>rich comparisons.
>
Certainly bad rich-comparisons are a wart, but in the line of cutting it 
off, I'd rather have an error raised (syntax error) for a < b < c than 
have it work as a built-in random data generator :) .  That is, the 
(current) common sense behaviour is by far preferable to the 
(randomising) behaviour of those unnamed languages, but really, who 
needs either behaviour so much that the subtle errors it can introduce 
are worth the risk? 

Yes, the symetry with  x == y == z is nice, but again, dropping that 
construct entirely would be better than switching to (x == y) == z 
semantics.  I mean x == y and y == z isn't *that* much harder to type, 
and neither is (x == y) & (y==z) if you want the element-wise stuff.  
Explicit is better, ...yada, yada... refuse to guess :) .

Peace and love to all the stunted, warped and twisted languages :) ,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From jack at performancedrivers.com  Thu Jun  5 10:52:55 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:52:55 -0400
Subject: Singleton class: what is the purpose?
In-Reply-To: <just-EE6BC0.14300805062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>; from just@xs4all.nl on Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 02:30:08PM +0200
References: <mailman.1054811769.993.python-list@python.org> <just-EE6BC0.14300805062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20030605105255.K1163@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 02:30:08PM +0200, Just wrote:
>   >>> class Singleton(object):
>   ...     _instance = None
>   ...     def __new__(cls, *args, **kwargs):
>   ...         if cls._instance is None:
>   ...             cls._instance = object.__new__(cls)
>   ...         return cls._instance
cannonical as of 2.2.x (Aahz in another reply says the cannonical way
is to use modules, I'm not sure what he means, I like it the above way).

> > But what is the purpose of a Singleton class?
> 
> In my case it was basically a euphemism for a global variable ;-)
> 

Singleton is the most abused Design Pattern for this reason, you can still
use globals all over the place (bad practice) but now say "I'm using
Design Patterns!".  A good singleton is something there can only be one
of by definition.  For instance, in a TCP/IP based server there is only
one client per connection so a valid singleton would be a IP/port pair
of the other guy.  If running a world simulation, Earth() would return
the same object every time as well.

Be careful when putting resources (like database connections) in singletons,
"It's a Trap!"  You end up with code that just assumes the resource will
always be valid and available, when in fact it isn't.  My rule of thumb
is that if you can't initialize the singleton _first thing_ without depending
on anything that isn't also a singleton then you are making a global and
not a singleton.

-jackdied




From morris_r at 4j.lane.edu  Fri Jun 20 14:19:10 2003
From: morris_r at 4j.lane.edu (Roger)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:19:10 -0700
Subject: Newbie on importing
In-Reply-To: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B33A9@SRV-03>
References: <71650A6F73F1D411BE8000805F65E3CB3B33A9@SRV-03>
Message-ID: <20030620181910.GA4854@4j.lane.edu>

Around Fri,Jun 20 2003, at 02:11,  jwsacksteder at ramprecision.com, wrote:
> That example is still less than clear...
> 
> >import sys
> >
> >Imports the module named 'sys'.
> 
> Which get me access to what in 'sys'?
> 
> >from sys import *
> >
> >Imports all names from sys (including names referring to functions).
> 
> Likewise, what additional thing are available when doing this? 
> Is 'import sys' a subset of 'from sys import *'?
> 
with 
import sys

To access a function 'blah', you would have to refer to it:
sys.blah()

If you use like this:
from sys import *

Then to access the function blah, you would just refer to it:
blah()

If 'blah' is the only thing in sys you want, you could do this:
from sys import blah
Then:
blah()

-- 
Roger 
morris_r at 4j.lane.edu





From rpm at wag.caltech.edu  Thu Jun  5 19:51:53 2003
From: rpm at wag.caltech.edu (Richard Muller)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:51:53 -0700
Subject: Distutils question
Message-ID: <bbol2n$lt9$1@naig.caltech.edu>

I'm currently putting some python routines together in the form of a 
module using Distutils, and had a question I couldn't answer.

It seems that Distutils is set up so that python routines are either 
packages or scripts. I use many of my programs as both -- I want them to 
be in a place where I can import routines from them, but I also use them 
as interactive scripts.

Is there a simple way to do this within the framework of distutils? Up 
until now, I've just had may of these routines in a directory that is 
both in my PYTHONPATH and in my PATH.

That is, can I do something like

setup(name="mymodule",
       packages=["mymodule"]
       scripts=["mymodule/script1.py"]
       )

I don't even know what this would do. Would it put mymodule/script1.py 
in both the site-packages/mymodule directory and somewhere on my path?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

Rick




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jun 10 11:01:07 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:01:07 -0400
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <bbsq5k$r9j$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <84fc4588.0306100413.1125d1ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <zMGcnS-JpKf1nXujXTWcqQ@comcast.com>

"Anand Pillai" <pythonguy at Hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:84fc4588.0306100413.1125d1ee at posting.google.com...
> Here is a version that will make the "functional programmers"
> happy. It is iterative rather than recursive.

That will make some "functional programmers" unhappy, but let each
speak for his/herself.

> def fac1(x):
>     nums=range(x+1)
>     return reduce(lambda x, y: x*y, nums[1:])
..
> def fac1(x): return reduce(lambda x, y: x*y, (range(x+1))[1:])

No reasons to construct two lists: range(x+1)[1:] == range(1,x+1)
No reason for lambda either:  import operator, then operator.mul is C
coded multiplier which should be noticably faster that Python coded
lambda
Also, reduce croaks on empty list, so if you want fact(0) == 1, [as
needed, for instance in C(n,k) = n!/((n-k)!k!) ], you need starter
value 1, in which case, initial 1 in list is not needed.  These all
give

import operator
def fac1(x): return reduce(operator.add, range(2,x+1), 1)

This will, however, not raise exception for negative x but return 1
instead.  Also range allows but truncates float args, so that
fact1(float) = fac1(int(float)) rather than raising exception or
returning float version from gamma function.  So, giving up one-line
fetish, we might write

def fac1(n):
  if n < 0 or int(n) != n: raise ValueError("arg %g is not nonnegative
int" % n)
  else: return reduce(operator.add, range(2,x+1), 1)

Terry J. Reedy





From popup391 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 19 09:03:22 2003
From: popup391 at yahoo.com (Frederic Lafleche)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 06:03:22 -0700
Subject: Need help optimizing first script
Message-ID: <a34b632.0306190503.32483efe@posting.google.com>

I put this script together mainly from bits and pieces I picked up in
this newsgroup and one or two books lying around. What it does is map
a given NT network drive and copy a file to it if some conditions are
met.  As this is my first script, I'm looking for ways to improve code
in any possible way, whether it's overall design, style, grammar,
logic, readability, performance, validation, anything.

#copyacs.py
import os, shutil, sys, time, win32file
from win32wnet import WNetAddConnection2, error

# Functions

# Generate timestamp
# OUTPUT: string in yyymmddhhmm format
def determineFN():
    # Get current time
    now = time.time()
    # Parse elements
    (Iyear, Imonth, Iday, Ihour, Iminute) = (time.localtime(now)[:5])
    year = str(Iyear)
    month = str(Imonth)
    day = str(Iday)
    hour = str(Ihour)
    minute = str(Iminute)
      
    # Padding
    if len(month) == 1:
        month = '0' + month
    if len(day) == 1:
        day = '0' + day
    if len(hour) == 1:
        hour = '0' + hour
    if len(minute) == 1:
        minute = '0' + minute

    return year + month + day + hour + minute

# Map network drive
def use (drive, host, user, passwd):
    try:
        WNetAddConnection2 (1, drive, host, None, user, passwd)
        return 0
    except error:
        return 1

# Variable assignments

devicename = 'I:' # Enter network drive number.  Ex. format: 'Z:'
dirTarget = devicename + '\\it\\popup' # Enter target path.
sharename = '\\\\afs\\grps'            # Enter shared resource name.  
username = 'login' # Enter user account inside single quotes
password = 'password' # Enter user password inside single quotes
drives = []                                 
drivemask = win32file.GetLogicalDrives()    # Bitmask
acsMode = sys.argv[1]    # Get second command-line argument of list.
                         # (First argument is program name.)
dirSource = 'd:\\oracle\\acs\\' + acsMode   # Source directory
acsfile = 'import.txt'                      # File to copy
sourceacsfile = dirSource + '\\' + acsfile  # Absolute path

# Main body

fDate = determineFN()
execlog = dirSource + '\\logs\\trace' + fDate + '.log'                
         # Operations log
timestring = time.strftime("%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S",
time.localtime(time.time()))    # Timestamp

if os.path.isdir(dirSource + '\\logs'):     # Log path exists?
    fObject = open (execlog, 'w')
    fObject.write(timestring + '\n')
else:
    sys.exit()

# List drives
for drive in range(ord("A"), ord("Z") ):
     if drivemask & 1 != 0:
          drives.append( chr(drive) )
     drivemask = drivemask >> 1

# Cut ":" suffix off devicename.
# To test whether a value is in the list, use *in*,
# which returns 1 if the value is found or 0 if it is not.

# If drive not mapped, map it.
if devicename[0] not in drives:
    if not (use(devicename, sharename, username, password)):
        fObject.write('Cannot map device.\n')
  
if os.path.isfile(sourceacsfile):           # Source file exists?
    if os.path.isdir(dirTarget):            # Target path exists?
        shutil.copyfile(sourceacsfile, dirTarget + '\\' + acsfile)
        fObject.write(sourceacsfile + ' copied.\n')
        if os.path.isdir(dirSource + '\\sav'):
            os.rename(sourceacsfile, dirSource + '\\sav\\import' +
fDate + '.txt')
    else:
        fObject.write('Cannot access destination path ' + dirTarget +
'.\n')
else:
    fObject.write('Source file ' + sourceacsfile + ' does not
exist.\n')
    fObject.write('Transfer aborted.\n')

fObject.close()

# End of main body



From Mike.Prager at noaa.gov  Wed Jun  4 15:06:23 2003
From: Mike.Prager at noaa.gov (Michael Prager)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:06:23 -0400
Subject: smtplib and SSL
References: <rj7qdv8ovhbgadaoenfi18hhelrlkaqgas@4ax.com> <mailman.1054681447.28648.python-list@python.org> <3mmqdv0afmoq1m04if4ejjpk2rpgmvl95q@4ax.com> <mailman.1054719126.23142.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vmgsdvccl9fuecok237c6dt3v1kigb408m@4ax.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:

>
>Please post the output of this script:
>
>#v+
>import smtplib
>
>s = smtplib.SMTP("myserver")
>s.debuglevel = 5
>s.login("myusername", "mypassword")
>#v-

Will post within 48 hrs.

>> Being a user, not a TCP/IP programmer, I am baffled about what
>> that means or what I can do to correct it.
>
>You don't need to know TCP/IP. It sufficient if you know the SMTP 
>protocol with the AUTH extension ;-)

I'm glad YOU know it!


-- 
Mike Prager
NOAA, Beaufort, NC
* Opinions expressed are personal and not represented otherwise.
* Any use of tradenames does not constitute a NOAA endorsement.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Jun 28 09:20:54 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Jun 2003 09:20:54 -0400
Subject: Thread State and the Global Interpreter Lock
References: <53u1evk5jmdcgma5e8eupbe3tn45js302i@4ax.com> <7812evshjqmgm6oa14jibn9t3lc8ht5qu4@4ax.com> <3EE15007.4DDD5B8F@engcorp.com> <3ef8b9b2$1@news.hks.com>
Message-ID: <bdk4nm$i5h$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3ef8b9b2$1 at news.hks.com>, Ryjek  <ryjek at findmeifyou.can> wrote:
>
>Our application currently consists of two processes: one is a database 
>and one is a windowing program with a user interface. Both embed a 
>Python interpreter for customization purposes (i.e. you can write your 
>own GUI extensions, and your own database procedures).
>
>I would like to merge both processes into one process with two threads 
>(mostly for performance purposes), but keep both threads' data separated 
>the same way as they are now. Python practically does not allow me to do 
>it because it insists that only one thread can execute Python bytecodes 
>at a time. I would like to be able to run both interpreters in 
>completely separate environments, where no state and no objects are 
>shared. I believe the restriction of "one thread at a time" is too 
>strict in such cases. What is the purpose of Py_NewInterpreter() if you 
>cannot run it concurrently ..?

It was a mistake, essentially, kept around for the rare occasions when
the caveats below don't apply.

I would say that if performance is your primary goal, multi-threading
your application would be a poor idea.  Threads work best in two
contexts: breaking up similar types of work for performance (and in the
case of Python, that pretty much needs to be I/O work), and increasing
the responsiveness of user-centered applications.  Unless you're sharing
huge amounts of data, it's quite likely that even outside of Python you
wouldn't see much (if any) performance increase.

>I understand that making Python completely thread safe w.respect to 
>native threads may not be appropriate, but it shouldn't be that 
>difficult to allow for real concurrent execution in isolated 
>environments. At least, this is what they did in Perl: 
>http://www.icewalkers.com/Perl/5.8.0/lib/threads.html

The problem is that Python relies heavily on DLLs, both internally and
third-party libraries.  It's pretty much impossible to set things up so
that random DLLs can be correctly loaded by multiple interpreters in a
single process.

Because threading has existed in core Python for many years, a lot of
bugs and issues have been hashed out -- it's not at all clear to me the
extent to which Perl has done the same.  One reason why Python sticks
with the GIL model is that multi-threading does diddly-squat for
computational threads on a single-CPU box.  It's actually *more*
efficient the way Python does it.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From belred1 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 25 21:54:03 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:54:03 GMT
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com> <bct498$mnjrt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <8da5fvsnidpjtblgfj4484spso2t9e6r95@4ax.com> <bcuqp3$nl9um$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <rt97fv80g2dguti1okoevk3kmvo6oh14vt@4ax.com> <bd17hu$niu1d$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <u7lcfv85lvutqg8tspgua4qc0454gsd2ie@4ax.com> <bd8gsc$pt2lr$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <3ef80342$0$13176$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <bd93ji$qieli$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <3ef816ff$0$13210$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <vS7Ka.12332$XG4.10593@rwcrnsc53> <3ef93a0e$0$13192$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <bdcfmn$ran36$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <3EFA2521.94B42B9B@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <_msKa.18143$Bg.10846@rwcrnsc54>

i just did a test comparing:

if key not in mydict:

and

if not mydict.has_key(key):

and the 1st way cameout 28% faster.  (on python 2.3)

bryan

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:3EFA2521.94B42B9B at alcyone.com...
> Cousin Stanley wrote:
>
> > I changed one line in the script ....
> >
> >     from .... if this_word not in dict_words.keys()  :
> >
> >     to ...... if not dict_words.has_key( this_word ) :
> ...
> > I failed to consider here
> > that a  NEW  keys list might be created
> > on each pass through a loop ....
>
> Not only does it create a new keys list (D.keys()), but it searches
> linearly through it (x in L)!  Those are two separate O(n) operations,
> whereas D.has_key is effectively O(1).
>
> -- 
>    Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
>  __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
> /  \ The multitude of books is making us ignorant.
> \__/  Voltaire





From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Jun 12 17:14:39 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:14:39 +0200
Subject: Bug in v1.5.2 Websucker GUI?
References: <7isqqi$8ki@vern.bga.com> <bc88g9$2uv$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bc9ckd$mb5$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bcajpg$9cn$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <bcaqmd$eo9$1@news.hccnet.nl>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

>Try submitting the bug to Python bug reporting site, which is linked to
>from the Python home page, or directly at
>  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470

Thanks for pointing me to that page. However I don't like it
(understatement deleted).

a) "SourceForge will not allow you to submit a new bug report unless
you're logged in. " 

Then why is Python bugtracking hosted on that site?

b) If I want to save the page to my harddisk for future reference it
makes my explorer crash because of some illegal operation.

c) If  want to browse the bug reports by date descending, I get an
error "The page cannot be displayed".

d) There's a trick to still save a page: View the page as "source",
then save it from notepad with ending html. If I do this and later
open the page when I'm  offline, I get an error like: "no access to
\\sfads.osdn.com\7.html" .


Anton


 



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun 25 13:46:52 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:46:52 -0400
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Sep 24)
References: <up14av386chdda@corp.supernews.com> <3d9100c1$1@news.sentex.net> <vfji1l44eee16c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3EF9E00C.B61DF6AF@engcorp.com>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >(I also don't know why a posting from February made it in the September
> >QOTW except as an accident.  But didn't someone say there's no such
> >thing as bad publicity? ;-)  )
> 
> We call that "serendipity", not accident.
> 
> Like Python itself, "Python-URL!" is not rigid.  It accomodates
> variability.  It shrinks, it expands, it *breathes*, it occasi-
> onally holds itself in reserve a little bit, until the timing
> feels better.
> 
> Sometimes "a little bit" extends over months.  OK, years.

Wow!  Cameron, dude, you've got some serious backlog to read! :-)

I think I posted the above question months ago... You were
holding on to your reply just to make your point stronger, right? ;-)

-Peter



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jun 27 10:28:10 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:28:10 GMT
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com> <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com> <bdb22c$psllg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EF933AA.C16ADFE5@alcyone.com> <bdcl1d$v43$0@216.39.172.122> <fef0a228.0306261125.62b83713@posting.google.com> <gHMKa.328383$3n5.103835@news2.central.cox.net> <fef0a228.0306270352.2a0b6ff8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <_vYKa.333820$3n5.132503@news2.central.cox.net>

It "-" <madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com> wrote ...
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote ...
[...]
> >
> > For that matter it might just as well have been ESC or any other
arbitrary
> > character value - clearly a single character will suffice to delimit a
line.
> > I fail to see why Apple should have chosen LF to preserve compatibility
with
> > Unix if Microsoft are "correct". But then I'm just a crotchety old
fartbot,
> > and you're just a mad surfer.
> >
>
> I said that using just one character is more elegant, and I think
> Apple was right when they chose a single character. I have no real
> knowledge of the different line-endings that were used at the time,
> but I assume that LF (alone) was more frequently used than CR (alone)
> or other characters. If I'm right, the Apple's choice was less
> compatible.

Doesn't really matter - I already told you I'm a crotchety old fartbot :-)

So, FWIW, I agree with you that a single character makes hugely more sense
than CRLF. Apple are well-known for making self-limiting decisions :-)

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jun  8 12:39:43 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 18:39:43 +0200
Subject: cPickle.load() question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055086642.5723.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1055086642.5723.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ee366b4$0$49108$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Dan Jones wrote:
> Hello all!
> 
> I'm new to python and am trying to write a simple program to keep a list 
> of my customers and generate pdf invoices for them (haven't gotten that 
> far yet, any pdf module recommendations?). I have defined a customer 
> class and a function to pickle them into a file. I'm just not sure how 
> to go about reading the customer file back in. Is there a way to iterate 
> over a pickled file and cPickle.load() each entry into a list?

Just pickle the whole list instead of each customer object separately!
Then the unpickling will return your whole list of customer objects :-)

--Irmen





From exarkun at intarweb.us  Tue Jun 10 16:59:20 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:59:20 -0400
Subject: Handling kill signals
In-Reply-To: <BB0BBDD4.26796%grobinson@transpose.com>
References: <BB0BBDD4.26796%grobinson@transpose.com>
Message-ID: <20030610205920.GA31251@meson.dyndns.org>

On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 04:54:44PM -0400, Gary Robinson wrote:
> For a daemon I'm writing, it would be very good if I could handle a kill
> signal sent out by the operating system during shutdown.
> 
> But when I try to set up a handler, python rejects it:
> 
> >>>> import signal
> >>>> def x(parm1, parm2):
> > ...     pass
> > ... 
> >>>> signal.signal(signal.SIGKILL, x)
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > RuntimeError: (22, 'Invalid argument')
> >>>> signal.signal(signal.SIGHUP, x)
> > 0
> >>>> 
> 
> IOW, signal.signal accepts SIGHUP but not SIGKILL. How can I get it to
> accept SIGKILL?

  You cannot.  The KILL signal is uncatchable and unignorable in a POSIX
environment.  Any well behaved system should first send another signal, such
as SIGHUP, before deciding that SIGKILL is required.

  Jp

-- 
Lowery's Law:
        If it jams -- force it.  If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway.




From tchur at optushome.com.au  Mon Jun  2 08:15:41 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:15:41 +1000
Subject: How to make slicing and other methods interact?
In-Reply-To: <20030602174932.A79808@bantha.org>
Message-ID: <002801c32900$b29c6a80$a300a8c0@emilio>

From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]
> On Behalf Of Michael Davidson
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2003 7:50 AM
> To: Tim Churches
> Cc: Pythonistas; staff at object-craft.com.au
> Subject: Re: How to make slicing and other methods interact?
> 
> On Mon, 02  2003, Tim Churches (tchur at optushome.com.au) wrote:
> > What is the general pattern for making methods interact? For
example, I
> 
> Try this change:
> 
> Instead of
> 
> > 	def __getslice__(self,low,high):
> > 		return self._data[low:high]
> 
> Do this:
> 
> > 	def __getslice__(self,low,high):
> > 		return this(self._data[low:high])
> 
> The problem is that what you're returning from __getslice__ isn't an
> instance
> of your clas.

Duh! That's the insight I needed. Many thanks.

Tim C 







From tchur at optushome.com.au  Wed Jun 25 08:02:53 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:02:53 +1000
Subject: Spambayes in the Australian press
In-Reply-To: <20030625212351.GA4388@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <001b01c33b11$b84f8d90$a300a8c0@emilio>

A well-informed article on Spambayes, the Python spam filter, appeared
in the IT pages of the major Sydney and Melbourne broadsheets this week
- see http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/23/1056220528960.html An
informal visual survey of readers of those IT pages on the train t'other
morning (about 25% of all passengers in the car in which I sat) revealed
intense interest in the article, no doubt reflecting the daily tsunami
of spam which they encounter. I wonder how many will follow up on the
article and what they will make of Spambayes?

Unfortunately the online version of the article does not include the
photo of Ma[rk|tt] Hammond, Aussie author of the Spambayes MS Outlook
plug-in, reclining in a typically languid pose, which appeared in the
printed version. That's the second time in a year that he has had his
photo in the mainstream press due to his Python work. 

Tim C






From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jun 16 08:21:32 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 07:21:32 -0500
Subject: Python articles
In-Reply-To: <bcjcde$k17un$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>
References: <mailman.1055704587.15481.python-list@python.org>
        <nrkpevsm7psg011fvqs0qjh6uj2jjbmjph@4ax.com>
        <mailman.1055710166.1953.python-list@python.org>
        <bcjcde$k17un$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <16109.46668.905011.117201@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >>> >[1] https://moin.conectiva.com.br/GustavoNiemeyer
    >>> 
    >>> Your website is about 2 meters wide, but my monitor only about
    >>> 300mm, so reading it is rather inconvenient.  (IE V6 on Windows 2000
    >>> Pro)
    >> 
    >> Looks fine on Galeon and Mozilla.  Probably IE's borken CSS
    >> implementation.

    Dave> Also looks good with Opera on Linux.

And with Safari on Mac OS.  (We all knew it would turn out to be a Microsoft
bug, right? ;-)

Skip




From m at moshez.org  Thu Jun  5 20:20:02 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 00:20:02 -0000
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.3999999999 ?
In-Reply-To: <bbogsb$87i$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
References: <bbogsb$87i$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>, <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com> <mailman.1053017062.18647.python-list@python.org> <895e4ce2.0306021736.13c657a5@posting.google.com> <slrnbdo1i8.a95.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3EDC1074.CA05EC23@alcyone.com> <u60tdvcau9j1ftu7rh05bv4leioate5afn@4ax.com> <bbm8aq$ld3$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3EDEA84A.389C1AC5@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20030606002002.24201.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Thu, 5 Jun 2003, "Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

> This is in agreement with the statement you and Moshe mentioned.
> Reals are reals, and only reals.  There are models related to reals
> but which are not reals, and so while it may be that in some models
> 0.99999..... != 1, that isn't the case for R.

Again, I reiterate that if you move to non-standard analysis, you want
to be careful about what you mean with 0.999...
The usual definition is lim (1-0.1**n) as n tends to infinity. But
which n would we be talking about? If you're talking about standard
natural numbers, then a limit does not exist (the property of increasing
sequences to have a limit is second order). If you're talking about
non-standard natural numbers, it's 1 (but the notation 0.9999...
is misleading).
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From user at domain.invalid  Wed Jun  4 04:38:54 2003
From: user at domain.invalid (user at domain.invalid)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 10:38:54 +0200
Subject: Anyone using Python to access PHPbb's MySQL database on a web  server?
References: <EpcDa.2207$xM5.2049592@news2.news.adelphia.net> <e5eDa.1158833$uT2.178931@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <3EDDB01E.5030009@domain.invalid>

Hello,

I'am hosted on www.tuxfamily.org (French Site) and I have acces to MySQL
through without any problems.

Regards

Salvatore




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Fri Jun 27 09:57:25 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 07:57:25 -0600
Subject: Simulte user input using doctest
In-Reply-To: <nAGJa.24271$FN3.1910022@news.ono.com>; from BartolomeSintes@ono.com on Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 05:14:59PM +0000
References: <nAGJa.24271$FN3.1910022@news.ono.com>
Message-ID: <20030627075725.C4792@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Bartolom? Sintes Marco:
> Is it possible to simulate user input in a doctest docstring? For example, I
> want to test if this module writes "Andy" when the user writes "Andy". What
> would be the docstring?
> def askyourname():
>     print "What's your name?",
>     myname = raw_input()
>     print myname

Redefining raw_input as Terry suggested is conceivable.  Note,
though, that the simplest approach won't work:

    def foo():
        """
        >>> def bar():
        ...    return 18
        >>> foo()
        18
        """
        return bar()

    def bar():
        return 3

This test fails because the new bar is not defined in any
lexically enclosing scope of foo.  You could do, say,

    """
    >>> def bar():
    ...    return 18
    >>> foo.func_globals['bar'] = bar
    >>> foo()
    18
    """

instead, but this is very hackish.

A better approach IMO is to make the function you want to test
more flexible:

    def foo(inputfunc=raw_input):
        print "What's your name?",
        name = inputfunc()
        print name

Now you can call foo with your own input function instead of
raw_input, and the test is easy:

    """
    >>> foo(inputfunc=lambda: "Andy")
    What's your name? Andy
    """

Such a technique can be considered to fall under the principle
"design for testing": write your code in such a way that it's easy
to test.  (Advocates of test-driven development will observe that
their methodology produces such code by construction.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Our analysis begins with two outrageous benchmarks."
  -- "Implementation strategies for continuations", Clinger et al.




From robhall at ii.net  Thu Jun  5 10:08:39 2003
From: robhall at ii.net (Rob Hall)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:08:39 +0800
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
References: <mailman.1054800552.20295.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3edf4e92$0$24082@echo-01.iinet.net.au>

>> IMHO, wxPython scores worse than both pygtk and pyqt.

You make it sound that pyqt scores bad...  pyqt rocks!  I spend quite a
while last year coming to grips with wx, but after a day or two of qt I was
quite comfortable.  IMHO qt IS the way to go.

Rob





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jun 27 10:47:10 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:47:10 GMT
Subject: Exposing object model in Python?
References: <bdffi1$skho2$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bdgvk5$sid7t$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <IrXKa.333801$3n5.129469@news2.central.cox.net> <mailman.1056722085.11922.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ONYKa.333828$3n5.249910@news2.central.cox.net>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote ...
> Steve Holden wrote:
>
> > > I'm writing a classical desktop application, using wxPython
> > > and some other libraries. I'm interested to expose its
> > > object model a la Microsoft's VBA. That is, I want to allow
> > > my users to tinker with the app, i.e. write their own macros
> > > in Python in a miniature IDE, within the app. I'd also like to ship
> > > the program as a standalone app, using py2exe.
>
> > Unfortunately the techniques used are a little too complicated to
describe
> > in a newsgroup posting.
> >
> > with-apologies-to-pierre-de-fermat-ly y'rs  - steve
>
>     macrosource = getmacro(macroname)
>     code = compile(macrosource, macroname, "exec")
>     context = {}
>     # populate context with fun things
>     context["app"] = object_representing_my_app
>     exec code in context
>
> (add exception handling as necessary)
>

You just *love* proving me wrong, don't you? Lucky for you I'm wrong so
often.

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jun 11 13:02:54 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 10:02:54 -0700
Subject: PEP-317
References: <1055255402.3ee5eb6ae09ee@mcherm.com> <bc551q$mie$1@main.gmane.org> <mailman.1055297660.22329.python-list@python.org> <1055312155.157424@yasure> <roy-B36181.09340211062003@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306110902.7d7f456d@posting.google.com>

Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote in message news:<roy-B36181.09340211062003 at reader1.panix.com>...
> "Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote:
> > "Never" would be a reasonable schedule, hope that's constructive.
> > The reasons advanced for breaking currently valid "raise" statements
> > would be excellent for a newly introduced feature, but those same
> > excellent sentiments add up to "gratuitous" here.  Break things
> > only when necessary, not just for the sake of tidiness.
> 
> I have to agree with that.  I'm all for making stuff better, but if it 
> means breaking something that currently works, it's a bad idea.  I'd 
> much rather live with a few "historical warts" in the language than have 
> to put up with working code breaking.
> 
> I've got python apps that I wrote 4-5 years ago at a previous job that 
> are still in production use.  I don't work there any more.  Let's say 
> somebody were to upgrade the python interpreter running on that system.  
> All of a sudden, stuff that had been working for eons would stop 
> working.  Stuff that nobody is really familiar with anymore.
> 
> Let's face it, getting Python mindshare is often an uphill battle.  In 
> the scenario above, it's not hard to imagine some PHB saying, "Screw 
> that Python crap, somebody rewrite that in a language I can trust".

I don't know what is expected for Python 3000, but I would like to
have a compatibility switch on the command line. I think the Python 
3.0 distribution should contain a Python 2.4 or 2.5 or whatever inside it, 
accessible with a switch or changing some settings and file associations. 
Only in this way I would accept code breaking changes. Nothing is more
annoying that a perfectly good old program no more working due to an
upgrade.
In addition to that, there could be an automatic code converter, making
old programs compatible with Python 3000. Any comments about that ?

                                                           Michele



From j.vanrooij_at_e-quest.nl  Wed Jun 11 03:03:26 2003
From: j.vanrooij_at_e-quest.nl (Joost van Rooij)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:03:26 +0200
Subject: saving a excel sheet as a csv file
References: <3ee5b556$0$49116$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3FjFa.339$um2.9795@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3ee6d483$0$49098$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

>
> you might also want to rather use the form, but its been a while :-)
>
> wbk = xl.Workbooks.Open(source)
> wks = wbk.Worksheets(sheet)
>

Yep, you're right! thanks a lot!

from win32com.client import Dispatch

def xl2csv(source, destination, sheet):
    xl = Dispatch("Excel.Application")
    wbk = xl.Workbooks.Open(source)
    wks = wbk.Worksheets(sheet)
    wks.SaveAs(destination,FileFormat= "6")
    xl.Workbooks(1).Close(0)
    return

xl2csv("d:\\input.xls", "d:\\file2.csv", "Sheet2")





From thomas.nuecker at web.de  Wed Jun 25 03:32:16 2003
From: thomas.nuecker at web.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Thomas_N=FCcker?=)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 00:32:16 -0700
Subject: Embedded Python and Tkinter / win32gui
References: <4b66f6d2.0306240010.5dac2064@posting.google.com> <mailman.1056462101.14559.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b66f6d2.0306242332.6d8ecf80@posting.google.com>

I configured the paths, so Python can find them, but i further on get
the following error in my program:

File "c:\Python22\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 25 in ?
   import _tkinter # if this fails your Python may not be configured
for Tk

Where could be the error and how can I configure Python for Tk?



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Mon Jun 16 14:27:11 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:27:11 -0700
Subject: I don't understand this regex.groups() behaviour
Message-ID: <1055788031.3eee0bff61aa3@mcherm.com>

Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz writes:
> I don't understand why the last two sentences of the following
> interactive session don't return more than two groups.
> 
> Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jun  5 2003, 14:02:17)
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
> In [1]: import re
> 
> In [2]: c = '"A";"AA";"AAA";"AAAA";"AAAAA"'
> 
> In [3]: re.match(r'("A+?";)("A+?"$)', c)
> 
> In [4]: re.match(r'("A+?";)+("A+?"$)', c).groups()
> Out[4]: ('"AAAA";', '"AAAAA"')
> 
> In [5]: re.match(r'("A+?";){4}("A+?"$)', c).groups()
> Out[5]: ('"AAAA";', '"AAAAA"')
> 
> Could somebody please explain why multiple groups aren't returned?

First of all, multiple groups ARE returned. Specifically, Out[5]
is a list of *two* strings. But it's not what you want. .groups()
will return one group for every non-escaped begin-paren in your
regular expression[1]. But from the looks of your example, what
you REALLY want is to take a regular expression and find all the
places where it matches. The function you want is called "findall",
and the syntax for reads like this:


>>> import re
>>> c = '"A";"AA";"AAA";"AAAA";"AAAAA"'
>>> re.findall(r'("A+?";?)', c)
['"A";', '"AA";', '"AAA";', '"AAAA";', '"AAAAA"']

I have simplified your regular expression somewhat so that I no
longer require the ; between all fields, but I expect that after
you realize that findall is what you want, you'll be able to
straighten out the details fairly easily.

-- Michael Chermside





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jun 12 13:54:59 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 10:54:59 -0700
Subject: PEP 318: Is chaining decorators even possible?
References: <20030612080349419-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306120954.2316f226@posting.google.com>

Kevin Smith <Kevin.Smith at sas.com> wrote in message news:<20030612080349419-0400 at braeburn.themorgue.org>...
> It has been brought up a couple of times in other threads that simply 
> chaining descriptors won't work (i.e. classmethod(synchronized(foo))).  
> Another possibility was to use subclassing (i.e. type('newtype',(
> classmethod,synchronized,{})(foo)).  When I wrote PEP 318, I wasn't sure 
> myself if it was possible to chain them, but I figured someone would 
> point it out if it wasn't.  So my question is, is it even possible to 
> chain decorators in a general way? 

Here is a bare bone implementation (i.e. written in 5 minutes and probably
buggy) to show how it would work the multiple inheritance way:


class chatty(object):
    "custom decorator, printing a message when the attribute is accessed"
    def __get__(self,obj,cls):
        print "Accessing %s" % self
        return super(chatty,self).__get__(obj,cls)

class chattyclassmethod(chatty,classmethod): pass

class C(object):
    # would be def ccm(cls)[chatty,classmethod]:		
    def ccm(cls):
        return 'This is a chattyclassmethod of %s' % cls
    ccm=chattyclassmethod(ccm)
    
c=C()
print C.ccm()
print c.ccm()

with output:

Accessing <__main__.chattyclassmethod object at 0x403143ec>
This is a chattyclassmethod of <class '__main__.C'>
Accessing <__main__.chattyclassmethod object at 0x403143ec>
This is a chattyclassmethod of <class '__main__.C'>

Notice that currently classmethod is not cooperative, therefore it
would not work in the other order:

class classmethodchatty(classmethod,chatty): pass

class C(object):
    def cmc(cls):
        return 'This is a classmethodchatty of %s' % cls
    cmc=classmethodchatty(cmc)

c=C()
print C.cmc()
print c.cmc()
This is a chattyclassmethod of <class '__main__.C'>
This is a chattyclassmethod of <class '__main__.C'>

This is why I said classmethod and staticmethods should be reimplemented
(even more so if you want to use Steven's solution).

HTH,

                                     Michele



From monsterkodi at gmx.net  Thu Jun  5 05:18:48 2003
From: monsterkodi at gmx.net (Thorsten Kohnhorst)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:18:48 +0200
Subject: Screenshots
References: <3EDEFF92.654485D1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3EDF0AF8.7050406@gmx.net>

Hello Sam,

> I am looking for a way to take screenshots of the desktop. The files
> don't need to be opened or viewed, just saved with a filename the user
> gives. I'm developing this in a Windows environment. If you could give
> me any links or hints about this I would be most appreciative.

There are many ways to do this and they depend mostly on the frameworks
you are using.

Here is a short example how to write a screenshot to a bitmap using 
wxPython:

from wxPython.wx import *

def screenshot(filename='screenshot.bmp'):
     """writes a screenshot to a bitmap (.bmp)"""
     screenDC, memDC = wxScreenDC(), wxMemoryDC()    # device contexts
     width, height = screenDC.GetSizeTuple()         # screen size
     bitmap = wxEmptyBitmap(width, height)           # create bitmap
     memDC.SelectObject(bitmap)                      # select bitmap
     memDC.Blit(0, 0, width, height, screenDC, 0, 0) # copy screen
     bitmap.SaveFile(filename, wxBITMAP_TYPE_BMP)    # save bitmap

Hope that helps,
yours kodi




From gmduncan at netspace.net.au  Sat Jun  7 17:44:23 2003
From: gmduncan at netspace.net.au (Gary Duncan)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 07:44:23 +1000
Subject: Including binary files in a .py file; [THANKS]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054906692.21809.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1054906692.21809.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE25CB7.7000100@netspace.net.au>

Geoffrey Talvola (and a few others ) gave useful advice ; thanks again.


> Gary Duncan wrote:
> 
>>Here's what I want to do; distribute a .py file (a GUI app) with
>>an embedded (binary) .GIF file (a photo of me at 1 yo ;) rather than
>>distribute both separately. For convenience, mainly.
>>

(I should have pointed out that the GUI was Tkinter-based)

Basically I used that nifty program img2pytk.py to convert the
GIF, then inserted it into my app. canvas.create_image renders it
on the canvas.  As usual, simple when you know how ;)

The attachment shows the code fragment.

- Gary
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: gif.txt
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20030608/bf2754b4/attachment.txt>

From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Mon Jun 23 10:41:04 2003
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:41:04 +0100
Subject: subclassing Thread and start
References: <uk86fv060t84jqno0mniak1ol6s3nn415c@4ax.com> <wcjJa.306559$3n5.168253@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <934efv4suhhul65aljt6p4tsp2025i140j@4ax.com>

On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:39:24 GMT, "Steve Holden"
<sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:

>Note that the threading module is the one you should use for threads in your
>program, the thread module is rather lower-level and therefore rather more
>error prone.
>
>Your MyThread class could look like this"
>
>    class MyThread(threading.Thread):
>        def start(self):
>            threading.Thread.start(self)
>            self.id = id(self)

But it is right here that the gist is. I do not want id(self) but the
id returned by the underlying low level thread wrapped by
threading.Thread.

>            return self.id
>
>If you *must* use the thread module, remember that although the
>documentation says that you shouldn't *override* start(), that doesn't mean
>you can't *extend* it. So, similar to the example aboce, you should make
>sure that your thread's start_new_thread() method calls the base class'
>start_net_thread() before running any of its own code.
>
>As a general rule, you should try not to assume any knowedge of the insides
>of the class you are using. Hope this helps.

It does, thanks. In particular, it is making aware that I am making
things more complicated for myself by insisting on having the id
returned by the low level thread. Need to think more on this.

>
>regards

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From manuelbastioni at tin.it  Fri Jun 20 18:13:07 2003
From: manuelbastioni at tin.it (manuel)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:13:07 GMT
Subject: os.listdir()
References: <s6KIa.218256$g92.4546830@news2.tin.it> <just-CDC716.22300020062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <b7LIa.218628$g92.4560101@news2.tin.it> <just-CDEAFA.23550020062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <TFLIa.218846$g92.4567844@news2.tin.it>

> If you can't "import os" in Blender, something is wrong...

I can, but I have full python installed.
Many users have only Blender and Python22.dll;
this mean they don't have the os.py... :-(

A simple listdir in python isn't possible?

Thanks again,

        Manuel









From just at xs4all.nl  Thu Jun 12 04:49:17 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:49:17 +0200
Subject: Matching C integer constants with re
References: <1xxzofj8.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <just-B5E380.10491712062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <1xxzofj8.fsf at python.net>,
 Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:

> I'm trying to match C integer constants with the re module, but cannot
> get it to work correctly.
> This is the pattern I use:
> 
>  re.compile(r"(0[xX][0-9a-fA-F]+|\d+)([uU]|[lL]|[uU][lL]|[lL][uU])?")
> 
> and it fails to match constants with a two character suffix like
> these: "123ul" and "123lu", although "123u" and "123l" are found correctly.
> Can anyone see what's wrong?

I'm by no means a regex expert, but I think you have to match the longer 
ones first:

  r"(0[xX][0-9a-fA-F]+|\d+)([uU][lL]|[lL][uU]|[uU]|[lL])?"

This seems to fix your script for me.

Just



From erich.neuwirth at aon.at  Mon Jun  9 05:48:13 2003
From: erich.neuwirth at aon.at (Erich Neuwirth)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:48:13 +0200
Subject: Recall last result
Message-ID: <3ee4577d$0$25096$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>

Is there a standard way of recalling the last result?
Following situation:
I call a function producing a large solution
for a combinatorial problem. The computation takes quite some time.
I forgot to assign the result to a variable.
The list is displayed on screen?
Now i want to count the number of elements in
the solution list.
Can i access the result of the last computation in a goboal vaiable?

History recall does not help me, since that would reproduce my input,
but I need the output.

I tried to find the answer in the docs, but could not find it.
Is there a FAQ dealing with questions like this one?




From tim.harford at rogers.com  Sat Jun 21 09:59:21 2003
From: tim.harford at rogers.com (Tim)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 13:59:21 GMT
Subject: mod_python hell in Apache/Windows XP
References: <6GTIa.32066$111.24282@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <t7k8fv4mtcju19oeu9cetos78mf2atu5ic@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ZwZIa.162283$3Sm.70490@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

Thanks for your encouragement. I was making attempts until 3am last night
with no luck. Somehow all the install/uninstalls must have got things
confused. I uninstalled everything, and then:

1. installed apache
2. Installed Python 2.2
3. Installed  mod_py

did the little test program and voila -> "Hello World."

Any advice on the best way to configure for CGI is much appreciated...

Thanks again,
T

PS: the weird thing is that the mod_python installer said it could not find
the module os (wrong!--it's there), and yet everything is working...weird!
:-)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jaros?aw Zabie??o" <webmaster at watchtowerDOTcom.pl>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: mod_python hell in Apache/Windows XP


> On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:19:30 GMT, "Tim" <tim.harford at rogers.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I've read all the posts and tried just about everything. No matter what,
> > Apache says it can't find the mod_python module!
>
> Get the installer from
> http://www.modpython.org/ and run it.
>
> Your mod_python.so should be instaled at YourApachePath/modules
>
> Add the follwing lin to your httpd.conf file:
>
> LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.so
>
> Restart Apache. It works.
>
"Jaros?aw Zabie??o" <webmaster at watchtowerDOTcom.pl> wrote in message
news:t7k8fv4mtcju19oeu9cetos78mf2atu5ic at 4ax.com...
> On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:19:30 GMT, "Tim" <tim.harford at rogers.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I've read all the posts and tried just about everything. No matter what,
> > Apache says it can't find the mod_python module!
>
> Get the installer from
> http://www.modpython.org/ and run it.
>
> Your mod_python.so should be instaled at YourApachePath/modules
>
> Add the follwing lin to your httpd.conf file:
>
> LoadModule python_module modules/mod_python.so
>
> Restart Apache. It works.
>





From mmower at novissio.com  Sat Jun 28 11:23:37 2003
From: mmower at novissio.com (Matt Mower)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 16:23:37 +0100
Subject: Have I broken my installation?
Message-ID: <b8crfvcsd8pit555p24rrc19f05a9578pb@4ax.com>

Hi folks,

I have an old Linux box that I am messing about with Python on.  The
RedHat installed version is 1.5 something so I have built & installed
2.2.2 in /opt/python.

I've started trying to play with XML and ran into an error when
attempting to parse a document:

>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/mnt/hugedisk/share/MattsMovableType/stb/stb.cgi", line 90, in ?
>    documentElem = parse( rssFile )
>  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/minidom.py", line 962, in parse
>    return _doparse(pulldom.parse, args, kwargs)
>  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/minidom.py", line 953, in _doparse
>    events = apply(func, args, kwargs)
>  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/pulldom.py", line 328, in parse
>    parser = xml.sax.make_parser()
>  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/sax/__init__.py", line 93, in make_parser
>    raise SAXReaderNotAvailable("No parsers found", None)
>xml.sax._exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable: No parsers found

Googling around it seems like I needed to build XML support when I
built Python.  I'm not sure what I should have done differently when I
built in order to make that happen.  The other option on offer
appeared to be installing PyXML.

I duly downloaded PyXML 0.8.2 and installed it (again into /opt/python
using --prefix).

Now instead of the previous error I get a different problem entirely:

>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/mnt/hugedisk/share/MattsMovableType/stb/stb.cgi", line 18, in ?
>    from xml.dom.minidom import parse, Document
>  File "./xml.py", line 2, in ?
>    from xml.dom.minidom import parse
>ImportError: No module named dom.minidom

I'm pretty sure I had a module dom.minidom before as it is the import
statement that is raising the exception and it didn't prior to
installing PyXML, I was previously calling parse() and Document().

So did I make a mistake installing PyXML?  Can anyone advise me on
what my next steps should be?

Many thanks,

Matt

---
Systems Engineer, Hipbone(EMEA) Ltd.
3000 Hillswood drive, Chertsey, Surrey, KT16 0RS
Tel: 44-1932-895902  Mob: 44-7980-237-380



From mpradella at yahoo.it  Wed Jun  4 09:29:58 2003
From: mpradella at yahoo.it (Torvo Sollazzo)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 06:29:58 -0700
Subject: a wierd parameter passing behavior
Message-ID: <5ca99eab.0306040529.2d6f85@posting.google.com>

Hi!

I found a strange parameter passing behavior in Python (v. 2.2.2).
Look at this piece of code:
def p(l) :
    l += [3]
    l[0] = 2

def p1(l) :
    l = l + [3]
    l[0] = 2

def f() :
    l = [1]
    p(l)
    print l
    l = [1]
    p1(l)
    print l

If I call f(), I obtain the following results:
[2,3]
[1]
Why p1() is different from p()? The list l should be passed by
reference in both cases, while it seems that "l = l + [3]" creates a
new local variable, also called l.

Any idea?
Many thanks,
TS



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Jun 27 09:07:47 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 14:07:47 +0100
Subject: How to upload a file with httplib?
References: <bdgebp$fe1$1@mail.cn99.com>
Message-ID: <87smpvk6sc.fsf@pobox.com>

"Hank Hu" <hankhu at 263.net> writes:

> I'm writing a prototype with python and need upload a zip file to a web
> server. Any idea?

http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientForm/

At your own risk, since file upload is poorly tested ATM.  You'd need
this version:

http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientForm/src/ClientForm-0.1.3a.tar.gz

IIRC, there's not yet a method on HTMLForm, so you need to use the
control directly:

import urllib2
from ClientForm import ParseResponse

forms = ParseResponse(urllib2.urlopen("http://www.example.com/"))
form = forms[0]
ctrl = form.find_control(type="file")
# note multi-file upload not implemented yet
# name and content_type args. to add_file are optional
ctrl.add_file(open("my.zip"), name="my.zip")
response2 = urllib.urlopen(form.click())


John



From gradha at titanium.sabren.com  Sat Jun 14 07:06:35 2003
From: gradha at titanium.sabren.com (Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 13:06:35 +0200
Subject: I don't understand this regex.groups() behaviour
In-Reply-To: <bcdc66$b1q$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <20030613183429.GA27641@pedos.es> <bcdc66$b1q$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20030614110635.GA8901@pedos.es>

On 2003-06-13, Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
> > I don't understand why the last two sentences of the following
> > interactive session don't return more than two groups.
> 
> because there are only two group markers in your expression,
> of course.
> 
> if you want multiple matches, use findall.

Well, I don't want multiple matches, I want one match that returns N
groups. If you try to use findall with THAT regular expression still
only two tuples are returned, because the regular expression states
explicitly that the end group must be at the end of the string.

I can create a regular expression with N groups being only the last
one ending with newline, but that's not very useful if I don't know
how many groups there are.

-- 
 Please don't send me private copies of your public answers. Thanks.




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jun 19 20:19:22 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:19:22 -0600
Subject: thinkings on shallow copy
In-Reply-To: <3EF225AA.1000909@nospam.com>; from kendear@nospam.com on Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 09:05:47PM +0000
References: <3EF1849E.6060103@nospam.com> <mailman.1056036561.14899.python-list@python.org> <3EF225AA.1000909@nospam.com>
Message-ID: <20030619181922.B723@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Kendear:
  [...]
> >>I wonder if it is actually to insert *the same object references*
> >>into the new compound object...
  [...]
> essentially, "same object references" are the same as
> "references to the same objects"... just as
> "character pointer" is the same as "pointer to character"
> in C.

This analogy might hold if "same object references" were parsed as
"(same object) references".  In my dialect, this is simply not so:
it's "same (object references)".  Perhaps your dialect is
different.

-- 
Steven Taschuk              Aral: "Confusion to the enemy, boy."
staschuk at telusplanet.net    Mark: "Turn-about is fair play, sir."
                             -- _Mirror Dance_, Lois McMaster Bujold




From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 27 10:00:10 2003
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 07:00:10 -0700
Subject: Newbie Tkinter questions
References: <mailman.1056708259.21345.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94974e1a.0306270600.2fc7f999@posting.google.com>

Doru-Catalin Togea <doru-cat at ifi.uio.no> wrote in message news:<mailman.1056708259.21345.python-list at python.org>...
<code snipped>
Hello,

> 1) Is the grid used with the Label and the Entry the same as the grid in
> the for-loop? (it doesn't seem so, I want the Entry after the Label in the
> 1st row and the Radiobutton in the 2nd row, first cell or columnspan = 2).
Yes. Within the same window/frame, the same grid is used. See below,
and the appropriate section in the Introduction to Tkinter by Frederik
Lundh.

> 2) How do I capture the change on the Radiobutton? As it is now, the
> programme calls chooseSchool with the right value at creation time, not
> when I click the Radiobutton. (Or maybe it is called when I click the
> Radiobutton as well, but the event is captured and ignored before it
> reaches the Radiobutton???)
Linking a Radiobutton(or Checkbox, for that matter) to a String/IntVar
is generally to best way. Changing the Var automatically updates the
state of the Radio/Check.

>From the code, there are a few comments I'd make:

-The grid(, place) and pack geometry managers should not be used
within the same container widget (meaning Frame,Toplevel,etc). Tk will
happily spend the rest of your lifetime trying to find a placement
that all are happy with. I think what you want to use is the grid
manager with the 'sticky' option. See grid manager doc in the back of
the I2Tkinter

-In Python, names are bound to objects the first time they are used.
There is no need to bind them to objects you aren't going to use. It
looks like you're trying to declare names, which you don't need to do.

-This is a very minor point. However, when using Tkinter, you only
need to bind names to object you want to keep a track of. Labels, for
example, unless you want to change the contents at some point, can be
created without a name. Radiobuttons, too, if you've linked the button
state to a variable, don't need names. Tk will keep a track of them.
i.e.:
# Static label
Label(root, text="My label").grid(row=0,column=0,sticky=W)
# Radiobutton linked to IntVar
curstate=IntVar() # This is what matters
curstate.set(0)
Radiobutton(root,text="On/Off",value=1,variable=curstate).grid(column=2,row=0)
#But!
myentry=Entry(root) # Entrybox you'll want to access
myentry.grid(column=1,row=0)

-Names can only apply to one object at a time. In your code, you
rebind the rbSchools name 4 times. If you want to dynamically create
instances, append them to a list. It's more flexible. However, it
looks like what you really what is to give all your Radiobuttons the
same IntVar as a variable option. Then you dpn't need to give them
names at all. See previous point.

-If you want real control over your gridding of widgets, don't put
them in the same grid square. What will happen is that the first
widget will get put in the right place, and the second will be put
anywhere the manager considers the next best (usually the line below,
which is why it works right in your code).

> Thanks if you can help. Is there any documentation which is more detailed
> than Lundh's introduction?

IMO, between the Python Library Reference
(http://www.python.org/doc/lib/) and the Introduction you have, you
should have enough to start. Section II really is indispensible when
you're trying something new. Make sure to read the option list and
description for each new widget and experiment!

Alternatively read the Tk documentation, GIYF. However, for a newbie
it can be a little daunting. Get to know how the system works before
trying to translate Tk->Tkinter.

HTH,
Paul

> 
> Catalin



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Jun 26 20:40:58 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:40:58 +0200
Subject: Activating `-i' from inside a script?
References: <oqwuf8cqpy.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>
Message-ID: <bdg3qb$i5e$1@main.gmane.org>

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> Is there a way for a script to activate the effect of the `-i' option, that
> is, to force interactive mode once `__main__' has run?  For one application,
> I would like that if the application discovers some data discrepancy or
> failure (not a Python error) and only then, and if the application was also
> started from a tty, it gives the user to interactively explore, using
> Python, the context that was built while the run was going.

something like this might work:

if discrepancy and sys.stdin.isatty():
    import code; code.interact(local=globals())

</F>







From puccio_13 at yahoo.it  Sat Jun 21 20:14:56 2003
From: puccio_13 at yahoo.it (Alessio Pace)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:14:56 +0200
Subject: embedded db in python app?
References: <qRVIa.34337$Fr5.730650@tornado.fastwebnet.it> <7xvfuzmhb1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <XI6Ja.34955$Fr5.746793@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Alessio Pace <puccio_13 at yahoo.it> writes:
>> Hi, I wrote a python application which needs to persistently store 2
>> *big* hash maps at the end of its execution and retrieve them when it
>> starts again. Up to now I just used pickle to serialize 2 objects that
>> "encapsulate" those hash maps (and nothing else). I wonder if using an
>> embedded db (but which one??) to store those two hash maps would be
>> faster both in storing and in retrieval.
> 
> What's wrong with using one of the built-in dbm classes?

mmm, never heard about those, what do you mean? :-? Do you mean APIs to
access an external DB or what?


-- 
bye
Alessio Pace



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Fri Jun 13 11:00:48 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:00:48 +0200
Subject: Execute a process as a specific user
In-Reply-To: <3EE9E547.9040209@wanadoo.es>
References: <3EE9E547.9040209@wanadoo.es>
Message-ID: <20030613150047.GA17779@nl.linux.org>

<quote name="Maurix" date="1055512403" email="maurix78_remove_this_ at wanadoo.es">
> A question for the unix users...
> How can i execute a process as a specific user from a process
> with root privileges?
> i'm doing this now with this command
> 
> os.system("su usuario -c comando")
> 
> Can i make this whitout the "su" command
</quote>

You can use os.setuid():

os.setuid(500)
os.system("comando")

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
Mozilla _is_ the web: it grows faster than you can download it.
1011001 1101111 1110101 1110010 1110011 0101100
1000111 1100101 1110010 1110010 1101001 1110100




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Jun 10 12:37:22 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:37:22 +0100
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <20030609081617512-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
 <2259b0e2.0306100802.c805a50@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <w00taVAClg5+EwsI@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <2259b0e2.0306100802.c805a50 at posting.google.com>, Michele
Simionato <mis6 at pitt.edu> writes
....

in this scheme you're notationally overriding the __metaclass__ for the
class, is there a default __metadef__ concept to go along with the
methods?

is

class A:
    __metadef__ = traced

......

could make all of A's methods 'traced'.


>
>I proposed some type ago to extend the notation for classes. For instance
>
>class C(A,B)[Traced,Syncronized]: pass
>
>would mean
>
>class C(A,B): __metaclass__=type("TracedSyncronized",(Traced,Syncronized),{})
>
>For functions instead the interpretation would be
>
>def f(x,y)[traced,syncronized]: pass
>
>meaning (as in the current PEP)
>
>def f(x,y): pass
>f=traced(syncronized(f))
>
>It is not perfect, since the interpretation of the syntax would differ
>for functions and classes, but who cares?  "practicality beats purity" ;)
>
>Originally I wanted an "is" sugar
>
>class C(A,B) is Traced,Syncronized: 
>    pass
>
>def f(x,y) is traced,syncronized: 
>    pass
>
>which looks better but people protested that "is" has another
>meaning. Another possibility (suggested by Bengt Richter) would
>be
>
>class C(A,B) becomes Traced,Syncronized: 
>    pass
>
>def f(x,y) becomes traced,syncronized: 
>    pass
>
>
>                       Michele

-- 
Robin Becker



From oinkfreddie at oinkmadcowdisease.oinkorg  Sun Jun 22 08:31:01 2003
From: oinkfreddie at oinkmadcowdisease.oinkorg (Freddie)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:31:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Getting a list of an object's methods?
Message-ID: <Xns93A2DFFF69BDCfreddiethescaryeleph@203.10.110.105>

Hi,

I've been having some issues trying to get a list of the methods of a class. 
In 2.2.3, this code gives me all of the object's variables and methods:

for thing in dir(self):
    	print 'thing:', thing

In 2.1.3, on several different machines/OSes (Linux and FreeBSD), only the 
variables show up. The same thing happens with __dict__. Is there a way to do 
this that will work on 2.1.x, 2.2.x, and I guess 2.3.x as well? The docs say 
this about dir():

Note: Because dir() is supplied primarily as a convenience for use at an 
interactive prompt, it tries to supply an interesting set of names more than 
it tries to supply a rigorously or consistently defined set of names, and its 
detailed behavior may change across releases.

Any help would be appreciated.

  Freddie

--------------------------------------------------------------
Remove the oinks from my e-mail address if you really want to



From suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com  Sat Jun 14 13:26:00 2003
From: suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com (Suresh  Kumar)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 17:26:00 -0000
Subject: Canvas rectangle filling
Message-ID: <20030614172600.23040.qmail@webmail18.rediffmail.com>

Thanks Daniel,
     Thanks for your timely help. I got it. I created a "xmb" file and filled my rectangle. Still i have some problem that i would like to bring your attention. 
       
     i have created a stack of rectangles all of same size, say 200 pixel wide and 100 pixel height. Each rectangle is given some color and stipple to "gray75". Then i placed some samll rectangles of some size, say 50 pixel wide and 50 pixel height , on each bigger rectangle and assigened some color and stipple to "lines.xbm". I got the o/p such that the smaller rectangles are filled with "line.xbm". But the samller rectangles are looking so transparent. It means, all areas other than ocupied by "line.xbm" is filled with bigger rectangle'c color. My requirement is, all smaller rectangles should be filled with "lines.xbm" and they should not be transparent. 

   My coding is as follows:
   
self.canvas.create_rectangle ( 100,100,200,200, fill='blue', stipple='gray75)
self.canvas.create_rectangle( 100,200,200,300,fill='red', stipple="gray50")
self.canvas.create_rectangle((100,300,200,400, fill='black', stipple="gray25")
######### Small rectagnles
self.canvas.create_rectangle(100,150,150,200, fill='black', stipple="@line.xbm")
self.canvas.create_rectangle(100,250,150,300, fill='black', stipple="@line.xbm")

    I attached my required o/p in this mail as "sample.gif". Have a   
look and give me your suggestion and me let me how to avoid transparancy.

With regeards,
V.Suresh Kumar.
  


On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 Abel Daniel wrote :
>Suresh  Kumar wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Iam using python/tkinter/pmw in windows.
> > Most of graphics languages provides facility to fill the rectangcle with
> > horizantal/vertical lines. I know that in tkinter we can fill the canvas
> > rectangle's interior using "stipple". But my customer is expecting the
> > rectangles to be filled with  diagnal/vertical/horizantal lines. Is
> > there any direct way is available in tkinter/Pmw to fill the rectangle with
> > lines?
> > or i have to use "create_line" command explicitly?
>Well, creating the lines invidually is an option, but i think it's a
>rather poor one. You would have to figure out the endpoints of each
>line, which might work for rectangles, but will get almost impossible
>for circles, or arcs.
>(Not to mention that you would be creating a lot of lines, which i guess
>would impact performance.)
>
>I think the best idea would be to use stipple with custom bitmaps. For
>example the following xbm file will create diagonal lines:
>----8<----
>/* Created with The GIMP */
>#define lines_width 16
>#define lines_height 16
>static unsigned char lines_bits[] = {
>    0x11, 0x11, 0x22, 0x22, 0x44, 0x44, 0x88, 0x88, 0x11, 0x11, 0x22, 0x22,
>    0x44, 0x44, 0x88, 0x88, 0x11, 0x11, 0x22, 0x22, 0x44, 0x44, 0x88, 0x88,
>    0x11, 0x11, 0x22, 0x22, 0x44, 0x44, 0x88, 0x88 };
>----8<-----
>Copy-paste this into a file, call it 'lines.xbm', and use it like:
>canvas.create_rectangle(100,100,150,150, stipple='@lines.xbm', fill='black')
>
>There might be two problems:
>1) path to the xbm files. If you put your xbm files somewhere else than
>the current directory, I think you will have to use the full path, like:
>... stipple='@/path/to/file.xbm' ...
>Which might complicate the matters as you have to keep track of where
>your xbm files are, and use the appropriate path.
>
>2) creating the xbm files themselves. If you only need some options like
>'diagonal lines, close the each other' or 'vertical lines, far apart'
>you could create some xbm files, and only provide those. (Essentially
>hardcoding thos patterns.) If you need more flexibility, like 'lines at
>60 degrees angle, 2 pixels wide and 7 pixels apart' you will have to
>generate xbm files on the fly. A way of pipeing the xbm data would come
>handy in this case, but I don't know if such exists. You might have to
>save the generated xbm data to be able to pass the filename to tkinter.
>I think generating the xbm files on the fly will be pretty easy, as they
>are simply black&white bitmaps.
>
>According to
>http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/x2861-options.htm
>which is describing the options of arc object:
>"As of Tk 8.0p2, the stipple option is ignored on the Windows platform.
>To draw stippled pieslices or chords, you have to create corresponding
>polygons."
>
>But I think that doesn't affect other objects. (I didn't test on Windows)
>
>Abel Daniel
>
>_______________________________________________
>Tutor maillist  -  Tutor at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
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From newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com  Tue Jun 17 20:46:50 2003
From: newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com (Daniel Fackrell)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:46:50 -0600
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com> <5g5vevsu4c5rr5d5scks4tfjqe5mpn1h4j@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3eefb678$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>

Tim Rowe wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:13:25 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Every few months, someone asks for tips on convincing 'management'
>> that Python is as safe a business bet as closed-source, proprietary
>> products.  Here's a point that is sometimes overlooked: unlike the
>> latter,
>>
>> Python cannot be killed.
>
> If Python were perceived as a threat to Microsoft I would expect them
> to produce a "Visual Python" with a snazzy interface, some fairly neat
> proprietary web tools and subtle incompatibilities with the
> GPL-compatible one we know and love, and integrated with MSIE.
> Unfortunately Sun is struggling to stop them doing this with Java, and
> the Python community would, AFAICS, have real trouble finding the
> money to mount an effective opposition.

If it were to happen, as bad as that would be, I sure hope they'd have the
insight to call it "C natural".  <wink>

--
Daniel Fackrell (newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com)
When we attempt the impossible, we can experience true growth.





From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jun 20 04:51:20 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:51:20 +0200
Subject: Need help to grok c extension that needs to use callbacks with
 data
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1056058687.531.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1056058687.531.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EF2CB08.2050607@v.loewis.de>

Jim West wrote:

>   Python -> C Extension -> MethodWithCallback (void (*userFunc)(unsigned
> char *))
> 
>   ...and I want the callback function to be a Python function.

You need to write a callback wrapper, and a wrapper object. Roughly,
you need something like that:

struct PyParam{
   PyObject *callable;
   PyObject *param;
};

void CallbackWrapper(unsigned char* cdata)
{
   struct PyParam* data = (struct PyParam*)cdata;
   PyObject_CallFunction(data->callable, "O", data->param);
   /* look at exceptions. */
}

PyObject* PyMethodWithCallback(PyObject* ignored, PyObject*args)
{
   struct PyParam params;
   PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "OO", &params.callable, &params.param);
   if (!PyCallable_Check(params.callable))
      raise TypeError, "first parameter must be callable"
   MethodWithCallback(CallbackWrapper, &params);
}

This, of course, assumes that the unsigned char* does not need
to point to a stringz, but can point to arbitrary memory. It also
assumes that the callback will be called before PyMethodWithCallback
returns; otherwise, params must be allocated dynamically.

HTH,
Martin




From Dick.Zantow at lexisnexis.com  Thu Jun 19 09:27:43 2003
From: Dick.Zantow at lexisnexis.com (rzed)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:27:43 -0400
Subject: (newbie)list conversion problem
References: <bcsc56$9k0$1@sunce.iskon.hr>
Message-ID: <bcsdq0$lhu$1@mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com>

Boris Genz wrote:
> Ok, I know this problems proabably make you laugh, but I'm in
> learning process:)
> I want to translate list of strings into identical list of
> integers. To clear things up, here is an example:
> I want this list: ['7659', '33', '454', '445'] to change in
> something like this: [7659, 33, 454, 445].
> I'm sure this is possible, and here is what I tried:
> x = ['7659', '33', '454', '445']
> for elements in x:
>   group = []
>   group.append(int(elements))
>
> and I got gibberish:) I'm obviously doing something wrong. Can you
> help me please, I appreciate any help...
>
> P.S. My English is poor but I hope you understand me;)

I suppose you got
[445]
as the value of group. That's not gibberish, it's what you asked for.
For each element in x, you have a new list to which you append one
element. If you take "group = []" out of the loop, you will get what
you want.

--
rzed





From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sun Jun  8 16:58:10 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:58:10 -0400
Subject: Compiling on XP home
References: <6e77evc8iq5sb6i686qf8e7ccrsk2eledn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ve78qlesjo5f17@news.supernews.com>

"Tim Rowe" <tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6e77evc8iq5sb6i686qf8e7ccrsk2eledn at 4ax.com...
> I'm running Python 2.2.3 on XP Home.  I've just noticed that .pyc
> files are not being created when I execute Python scripts.  I'm
> running as administrator in my own directory, so I have write
> permission.  Does anybody know what's happening?

Python does not create .pyc files for the script you execute;
only for the modules that are imported into that script. Is this
what is happening?

John Roth





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun 16 20:27:55 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:27:55 -0400
Subject: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions? (os.chmod() not 
 working properly?)
References: <mailman.1055807609.8306.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EEE608B.57C5AC7D@engcorp.com>

Gus Tabares wrote:
> 
> OK I lied. It's 666:)

In any case, aren't these supposed to be meaningful only as octal
values?  So you'd need 0666?  I'm not actually going by the docs
here, just memory.  777 and 666 would be extremely weird parameters
to pass in otherwise (i.e. as decimal).

-Peter



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Jun 22 13:49:22 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:49:22 +0100
Subject: Choosing between two Jython books...
References: <oprq494znqojfyi9@den.news.speakeasy.net> <3EF59459.D7732CE7@hotmail.com> <oprq6ihdsiojfyi9@den.news.speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <3EF5EC22.F33A64D8@hotmail.com>

Marc Rochkind wrote:

Alan Kennedy wrote:

>> Are you the Marc Rochkind who wrote "Advanced Unix Programming"?

> Yes... that's me. Thanks for the kind words! I'm working on the 2nd
> edition, which is scheduled to be out this Fall.

That's great, I'll look forward to reading it. I was so impressed with the first
edition that it's the only textbook whose name *and* author I remember from the
University days. (The only other book I remember was "The Dragon Book", by Aho,
Sethi and Ullman(?)). 

I'm sure that there'll be lots of new areas in the 2nd edition: if I remember
rightly, Berkeley sockets hadn't been invented when you wrote the first edition
...

> My interest in Jython is mainly because then I
> can use Swing instead of Tkinter. Because I use Swing with Java, it 
> allows me to learn only one GUI.

Ah, that's important information.

"Essential Jython" has a chapter dedicated to Swing: sample apps include a
calculator, an HTML browser/parser and an HTML source viewer.

"Jython for Java Programmers", OTOH, also has a GUI chapter, but it is almost
entirely dedicated to AWT, except for a single page about Swing.

Best wishes,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun  4 09:15:43 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 09:15:43 -0400
Subject: CGI to xml
References: <DTjDa.191$R44.8635@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3EDDF0FF.D677C266@engcorp.com>

Graeme Matthew wrote:
> 
> Please can i get everyones advice on what im about to do
> 
> I have a single controller.py script that runsa for all reuqests on the
> webserver, it instantiates a cgi object then converts the cgi.FieldStorage
> to an xml file then sends the xml request to an appserver. The cgi request
> could include file uploads.
> 
> Is my method ok or is there a better alternative ?

According to XP, if your method works, it's okay.  Why would you want
anything different?  Do you have a problem with the current approach?
How could we answer any differently without knowing what you want to
accomplish, and what's important to you?

-Peter



From jimmy at retzlaff.com  Mon Jun 23 20:19:58 2003
From: jimmy at retzlaff.com (Jimmy Retzlaff)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:19:58 -0700
Subject: Python 2.3 - Is the release still on schedule?
Message-ID: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F0F1DDD@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>

John Ochiltree (joch at blueyonder.co.uk) wrote:

> ...I want to use the 2.3 Set functionality. Has anyone an
> idea of suitable strategies to deal with this temporarily...

I've been using the sets and heapq modules for a while now in 2.2. I
simply grabbed copies of sets.py and heapq.py from CVS and dropped them
in my Python Path. I don't remember having to change anything in the
code to get it to work with 2.2. Just look for sets.py here:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/python/dist/src/Li
b/

After a brief look at the change log, it looks like sets.py started
using itertools in version 1.38, so you may have to get version 1.37 or
older if you want it to run unchanged in 2.2. I have no idea if there
have been significant API changes since then.

Jimmy




From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jun 18 12:30:43 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:30:43 +0200
Subject: use member functions to access data in Python classes?
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0306180815.75869d6f@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0306180815.75869d6f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF093B3.7010801@ghaering.de>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> In C++, it is generally recommended to declare the data within a class
> private and to access the data using member functions. Do experienced
> Python programmers usually use member functions to access data within
> classes, or do they access the data directly?

Either directly, or guarded with properties (2.2+).

Older Python versions don't have properties, but you can emulate them by 
overriding __getattr__ and __setattr__ appropriately.

-- Gerhard




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Jun 20 09:07:01 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:07:01 -0500
Subject: looping
In-Reply-To: <bsDIa.4418$C83.436634@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> ("Lucas
 Raab"'s message of "Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:52:23 GMT")
References: <bsDIa.4418$C83.436634@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <m24r2kaoei.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Lucas" == Lucas Raab <lvraab at earthlink.net> writes:

    Lucas> I'm a newbie and I can't figure out how to loop from the
    Lucas> end of the program back to the beginning. Any suggestions?

Welcome to python!

There are a number of ways to do it depending on your needs.  If you
need to loop a fixed number of times, use a for loop

  for i in range(10):
    print i
    # do some more stuff, at the end, it loops back

If you need to loop back an arbitrary number of times until some
condition is met, use a while loop

  while 1:
    print 'hi mom'
    # do some more stuff
    if some_condition:
       break   # this ends the loop
  
    # do some more stuff and then the program will loop back


You may also want to put the stuff you want to loop over in a function

  def somestuff():
     print 'hello again'
     #do some more stuff

Now you can call 'somestuff' whenever you need to, in a loop or in
response to some event, and you code will be rerun, eg,

  for i in range(20):
     somestuff()

Take a look at the python tutorial,
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html, particularly the
section on control flow:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node6.html

John Hunter







From claird at lairds.com  Wed Jun 25 12:05:09 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:05:09 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Sep 24)
References: <up14av386chdda@corp.supernews.com> <3d9100c1$1@news.sentex.net>
Message-ID: <vfji1l44eee16c@corp.supernews.com>

In article <3d9100c1$1 at news.sentex.net>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Dean Goodmanson wrote:
>> QOTW:  "When something "is *EVERYWHERE*", how can it be "clearly VISIBLE"
>> at the same time?" - Alex Martelli 
>>     http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-September/123526.html
>> 
>> "... [A]necdotally speaking I find Python development goes faster more as
>> a result of its very high readability than as a result of low loc/FP."
>> 				 Peter Hansen     
>
>For the record, this was from 
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-February/089848.html
>although I have to say I have no idea what it means... if it ever meant 
>anything.  (Hansen's a real blowhard, you know.)
>
>(I also don't know why a posting from February made it in the September
>QOTW except as an accident.  But didn't someone say there's no such
>thing as bad publicity? ;-)  )
>
>-Peter
>

We call that "serendipity", not accident.

Like Python itself, "Python-URL!" is not rigid.  It accomodates
variability.  It shrinks, it expands, it *breathes*, it occasi-
onally holds itself in reserve a little bit, until the timing
feels better.

Sometimes "a little bit" extends over months.  OK, years.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jun  1 14:07:42 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Jun 2003 14:07:42 -0400
Subject: medusa http server
References: <bbd7ub$a42$1@panix1.panix.com> <bafs5q$c85$1@panix3.panix.com> <mailman.1053946662.10746.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1054488842.31143.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbdfde$mlh$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1054488842.31143.python-list at python.org>,
Moshe Zadka  <m at moshez.org> wrote:
>
>Hrm, a good idea. I might actually do that -- "Bringing Up a Twisted Web In
>Five Minutes" might be a win.

That's a long title, and it emphasizes the wrong thing.  Call it "Five
Minutes to a Twisted Web Server" or "Twisted Web in Five Minutes".
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Jun 24 11:37:24 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:37:24 -0500
Subject: shebang strange thing...
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F06233052E9780@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: mwilson at the-wire.com [mailto:mwilson at the-wire.com] 
> Sent: Martes, 24 de Junio de 2003 09:45 a.m.
> 
>    From another angle, I've been using the program ws-ftp to
> move files betweem M$ systems and *nix systems, and it fixes
> all the line-end problems for me.  I only get bitten now if I
> move files another way.
> 
>         Regards.        Mel.
>

All FTP programs have considerations for encoding translations,
from simple ones such as ASCII and BINARY/IMAGE, to others
more obscure such as TENEX, EBCDIC, etc.

-gustavo

--
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jun 10 03:28:41 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 07:28:41 GMT
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <20030609081617512-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <bc41b9$mm1$0@216.39.172.122>

On 9 Jun 2003 12:16:16 GMT, Kevin Smith <Kevin.Smith at sas.com> wrote:

>This is the first draft of a PEP describing new syntax for applying 
>function modifiers (e.g. classmethod, staticmethod, etc).  There is 
>currently no implementation of the proposed syntax (I have heard rumors 
>that the 'def foo(self) [...]' syntax has a patch somewhere, but I 
>haven't seen it yet).  I have already received a few comments and will 
>revise the document soon.  The latest version will always be available 
>at http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0318.html.
>
>
>Function Modifier Syntax
>------------------------
>
>Abstract
>    
>    The current method for declaring class and static methods
>    is awkward and can lead to code that is difficult to understand.
>    This PEP introduces possible new syntax which will place the
>    translation of instance methods to class/static methods at
>    the same point in the code as the method's declaration. 
>
>
>Motivation
>
>    The current method of translating an instance method into a 
>    class/static method places the actual translation at a different
>    point in the code than the declaration of the method.  The 
>    code below demonstrates this.
>
>        def foo(self):
>            perform method operation
>        foo = classmethod(foo)
>
>    When the method is very short, it is easy to look ahead and see
>    that this is a class method.  However, if the method is more than
>    15 lines or so, the translation into a class method is not 
>    obvious.  A solution to this problem is to move the translation
>    of the method to the same point as the method's declaration.
>
>
>Proposal
>
>    Probably the simplest way to place the function that translates
>    an instance method to a class/static method is illustrated in the
>    code below.
>
>        def classmethod foo(self):
>            perform method operation 
>
>    The code in this example will simply perform the following.
>
>        def foo(self):
>            perform method operation
>        foo = classmethod(foo)
>     
>    This syntax does not introduce any new keywords and is completely
>    backwards compatible with any existing code.  The word between the
>    'def' and the actual name of the method is simply a reference to
>    a callable object that returns a new function reference. 
>    This syntax could also be extended to allow multiple function 
>    modifiers in the form of a space delimited list as follows:
>
>       def protected classmethod foo(self):
>           perform method operation 
>
>    which would be equivalent to the current form:
>
>       def foo(self):
>           perform method operation
>       foo = protected(classmethod(foo))
>
>    While this syntax is simple and easy to read, it does become 
>    cluttered and more obscure if you wish to allow arguments to be 
>    sent to the function modifier.
>
>       def synchronized(lock) classmethod foo(self):
>           perform method operation 
>
>    Various syntaxes have been proposed in comp.lang.python.  The
>    most common are demonstrated below.
>
>        def foo(self) [synchronized(lock), classmethod]:
>            perform method operation
>
>        def foo(self) {'pre': synchronized(lock), 'classmethod': True}:
>            """ Skip Montanaro syntax """
>            perform method operation
I like this one, except any dict workalike expression in the position
between "foo(self)" and ":" ought to work. E.g.,

         MOD_SYN_METH = {'pre': synchronized(lock), 'classmethod': True}
         def foo(self) MOD_SYN_METH:
             """ Skip Montanaro syntax """
             perform method operation

ought to work the same. But there has to be some control definition for how/when
to use the things in the dict (noting that there is at least def-time vs call time).
I would designate an optional overriding  mod function right in the dict itself
using a special key, e.g., 'mod_fun'

         MOD_SYN_METH = {'mod_fun': mod_syn, 'pre': synchronized(lock), 'classmethod': True}
         def foo(self) MOD_SYN_METH:
             """ Skip Montanaro syntax with Bengt's mod """
             perform method operation

The implied processing might be

         foo = MOD_SYN_METH.get('mod_fun', std_mod_fun)(foo, MOD_SYN_METH, locs=locals(), globs=globals())

where std_mod_fun would be a builtin default. This would provide a more open-ended facility for
modding, e.g.,
      
         def foogen(arg,arg1,...) {'mod_fun'= std_mod_gen}:

with the concise spelling using a builtin dict perhaps being

         def foogen(arg,arg1,...) GENERATOR:  # COROUTINE: springs to mind also

might be a possible alternative way to make a function into a generator without scanning for yields
(which in turn might open up the possibility of a yield from nested or other called functions, BTW).

One could imagine extending this pattern to classes also, e.g.,

         class Foo(B1, B2) {'mod_fun': __METACLASS__}
             """ Skip Montanaro syntax with Bengt's mod applied to classes """
             perform class definition

Hm, to round this out, maybe a class mod that turns the class into a first class module in
dotted sub-relation to the module containing it. Thus

         class MyModule(bases) MODULE:
             """ Skip Montanaro syntax with Bengt's mod applied to classes, module in particular """
             perform module definition

The standard MODULE['mod_fun'] would perhaps (handwaving ;-) produce a singleton module instance
and bind it to MyModule, but there would be other possibilities following from the general mechanism,
perhaps including properties for the module.
    
>
>        def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
>            """ Gerrit Holl syntax """
>            perform method operation

Ok, time to mention a question about "synchronized(lock)" -- what does it mean? I.e., is it an
expression evaluated at def time? BTW this question also affects Skip's modding dictionary (with
or without my extensions). Is the intent really {'pre':(synchronized,lock)} so that the function
can be set up to make the call MODDICT['pre'][0](MODDICT['pre'][1]) at run time (though not looking
those up dynamically in MODDICT at run time), as opposed to using a result from the def-time
call "synchronized(lock)"?

BTW, local presets for a function could be handled at def time by an element in the mod dict, e.g.,

         def foo(x) {'mod_fun':std_mod_fun, 'fun_locals':{'a':123, 'count':0, 'shared_mutable':[]}:
             x = a  # would get the 123 constant local value "a" preset-each-time-foo-is-called, not global
             count +=1 # would always have the preset starting value

This could be made more concise (and flexible) if multiple dictionaries meant that they should all be
in effect searched in reverse order for a name in mod dict space. E.g.,

         def foo(x) FUNCTION, {fun_locals':{'a':123, 'count':0, 'shared_mutable':[]}:

where FUNCTION would be the default builtin used when you write plain old "def foo(x):"
Of course, a class instance with __GETITEM__ defined could allow you to spell that as

         def foo(x) FUN_PRESETS(a=123, count=0, shared_mutable=[]):

Maybe a naming convention is needed to reserve the standard modding dicts, e.g.,

         def foo(self) MOD_CLASSMETHOD: pass
         def foo(self) MOD_STATICMETHOD: pass
         def foo(self) MOD_STD_METHOD: pass # default within class def
         class foo(opt_bases) MOD_PROPERTY(get=False, set=True) # instance acts like dict
             # expect only set accessor method here, since defaults for readonly are overridden
         def foo(some, args) MOD_GENERATOR: pass

and so forth...        
>
>    I have a strong preference for the last of the three.  The first
>    two use syntax that just seems arbitrary which does not help the
>    user to understand the meaning of it.  The third method is very
>    readable and could probably be interpreted easily by those not
>    familiar with Python.
I like to have a concise spelling for things, but I like it to be the
simple designation for something that can also be elaborated and customized elsewhere.
>
>
>Conclusion
>
>    The current method of translating an instance method to a class
>    or static method is awkward.  A new syntax for applying function
>    modifiers should be implemented (proposed syntax shown below).  
>
>        def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
>            perform method operation
>
>    More generally, 
>
>        def foo(self) as <tuple>:
>            perform method operation
>
As indicated above, I like the flixibility of

         def foo(self) <mod dict expression>:
             perform method operation

Though if someone wants to interpose a sugary 'as' I wouldn't get apoplectic ;-)

>    The proposed syntax is simple, powerful, easy to read, and 
>    therefore preserves those qualities of the Python language.

I think this applies even more when standard patterns can be reduced to a single symbol,
while preserving customizability, e.g.,

         def foo(self) as MY_LOCKED_METHOD:
             perform method operation

BTW, I think it's good to keep in mind that "*perform* method operation" refers to call/run-time,
not def-time, where the meta-magic is being done to set up for later run time. Of course, the
meta-magic has its own def- and run- times ;-)

>
>
>Copyright
>
>    This document has been placed in the public domain.
>
>
>-- 
>Kevin Smith
>Kevin.Smith at sas.com

Above comments are version 0.1, so I expect some holes, but HTH ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From Juha.Autero at iki.fi  Sun Jun  1 07:40:03 2003
From: Juha.Autero at iki.fi (Juha Autero)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 14:40:03 +0300
Subject: horribly slimy segault c-extension
References: <mailman.1054418270.7531.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.05.31.22.37.54.788521@asd.com>
Message-ID: <87y90mxbzg.fsf@jautero.no-ip.org>

"Hunter Peress" <dsada at asd.com> writes:

> On the right we see the results of "gdb python core"  
>
> since i dont see "test" anywhere, and since theres "??"  im lead to
> believe that maybe i didnt load the core file correctly? or maybe i have
> not set some name properly in the C? 

It looks more like PyCFunction_Call gets a corrupted function pointer.
Because of address 0x00000009 I'd guess that it's NULL pointer, but
since the next stack frame may be corrupted, I wouldn't rely on that.

-- 
Juha Autero
http://www.iki.fi/jautero/
Eschew obscurity!





From tl_news at nexgo.de  Thu Jun 26 08:00:14 2003
From: tl_news at nexgo.de (Tino Lange)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:00:14 GMT
Subject: Tiger Hash Function in Python
References: <y2lIa.104936$lK4.2967901@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <82bedb.u6s.ln@217.11.196.167>

Mirco Romanato wrote:

Hi!

> [...] I need to utilize the Tiger Hash function.

> There is any module that compile automagically with Cygwin, or a
> module that don't need to be compiled, only installed?

I have built a tiger hashsum extension some time ago.
I'll send you the source via seperate E-Mail.

If you don't want to compile yoursef I can build the Cygwin 2.2.3 extension.
Just ask ;-)

Best regards

Tino






From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Jun 17 19:38:31 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 19:38:31 -0400
Subject: Cmd output and status in one call on Windows
References: <mailman.1055786077.30359.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u1xxscm14.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

"Justin Johnson" <justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> writes:

> I need a way to run an external command, grab its output (stdout,stderr)
> and get a return status for the command.  It seems like popen2.Popen3
> (Note the upper case "P") is the way to do this, but it only works on
> unix.  Is there a way to get this info on Windows?

One option (that doesn't seem to have gotten documented when it was
introduced in Python 2.0, so you can decide if you want to depend on
it), is that under Windows only, all os.popen#() functions will return
the return status for the child process as a result of the close().
In the case of # >= 2, when you get back multiple handles, you get the
return status as the result of the close() method whichever handle you
close last.

This should work from Python 2.0 through 2.3.

-- David



From glauco at sferacarta.com  Mon Jun 23 09:32:15 2003
From: glauco at sferacarta.com (Glauco)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:32:15 GMT
Subject: SOAPpy Client  Vs .NET Server
Message-ID: <zjDJa.115042$lK4.3257929@twister1.libero.it>

I'm Trying to use a simple python SOAP client

from SOAPpy import SOAPProxy
self.SOAPproxy = SOAPProxy( SOAPsrv, soapaction=SOAPact, 
           namespace=SOAPns)
page_result = self.SOAPproxy.invoke(SOAPws,SOAPhead )


But in a .NET SOAP Server i receive  a "Server did not find required
SOAPAutenticazione SOAP header in the message" but i've controlled 
header and this is OK . NOW... Server Administrator write to me that 
error occurs because i don't use a standard SOAP client . . .but i don't 
think so..

Some ideas ?


Glauco




From domma at procoders.net  Wed Jun 18 11:28:48 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:28:48 +0200
Subject: The socket operation could not complete without blocking
Message-ID: <bcq0fh$vu$07$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

calling urllib2.urlopen (python2.3) I randomly the error message:

"The socket operation could not complete without blocking"

Here is the traceback:

  File "C:\crawler\Rules\Tools\__init__.py", line 23, in __init__
    self.page = urllib2.urlopen(url)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 136, in urlopen
    return _opener.open(url, data)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 330, in open
    '_open', req)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 309, in _call_chain
    result = func(*args)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 824, in http_open
    return self.do_open(httplib.HTTP, req)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\urllib2.py", line 813, in do_open
    code, msg, hdrs = h.getreply()
  File "C:\Python23\lib\httplib.py", line 1019, in getreply
    response = self._conn.getresponse()
  File "C:\Python23\lib\httplib.py", line 770, in getresponse
    response.begin()
  File "C:\Python23\lib\httplib.py", line 268, in begin
    version, status, reason = self._read_status()
  File "C:\Python23\lib\httplib.py", line 230, in _read_status
    line = self.fp.readline()
  File "C:\Python23\lib\socket.py", line 310, in readline
    data = recv(1)
error: (10035, 'The socket operation could not complete without blocking')

I have change the sockettimeout like this:

import socket
socket.setdefaulttimeout(10)

Just in case it makes a difference. Can somebody tell me what my problem is?

Achim







From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jun  3 18:23:03 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 00:23:03 +0200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054662726.12651.python-list@python.org> <3EDCE9C2.5020805@nospam.com> <bbipv6$9hs$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <l165nmn9np.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <bbj703$mkt$1@main.gmane.org>

Ed Avis wrote:

> Is there a way to write an expression which sets b and does return
> something?

an inline assignment can be written as:

    [b for b in [expr]]

to return the assigned value, use:

    [b for b in [expr]][0]

for example:

>>> a = 10
>>> c = [b for b in [a+a]][0] + a
>>> a
10
>>> b
20
>>> c
30

</F>







From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jun 19 20:05:32 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:05:32 -0600
Subject: Need help optimizing first script
In-Reply-To: <87llvyrn09.fsf@pobox.com>; from jjl@pobox.com on Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 06:32:54PM +0100
References: <a34b632.0306190503.32483efe@posting.google.com> <87llvyrn09.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20030619180532.A723@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth John J. Lee:
> popup391 at yahoo.com (Frederic Lafleche) writes:
> > [...]  As this is my first script, I'm looking for ways to improve code
> > in any possible way, whether it's overall design, style, grammar,
> > logic, readability, performance, validation, anything.

Impressive for a first script!

> > # Map network drive
> > def use (drive, host, user, passwd):
> >     try:
> >         WNetAddConnection2 (1, drive, host, None, user, passwd)
> >         return 0
> >     except error:
> >         return 1
> 
> Apart from the comment where there should be a docstring, OK.  [...]

I'll disagree with John here, not about the comment/docstring
thing, but about this function being otherwise okay.  It seems to
be following the C convention of returning zero for success and
nonzero for failure.  I'd suggest letting the exception propagate
instead, catching it only when you want to do error reporting --
which is all you use this return value for anyway.  This saves you
the risk of forgetting to check the return value, which is one of
the major benefits of exceptions.

Thus:

    def use(drive, host, user, passwd):
        WNetAddConnection2(1, drive, host, None, user, passwd)

and later,

    try:
        if devicename[0] not in drives:
            use(devicename, sharename, username, password)
    except error:
        fObject.write('Cannot map device.\n')
        sys.exit(1)

for example.  It might even be fine to let the exception propagate
even further, killing the script entirely and printing the normal
traceback.  Then this later bit would be simply

    if devicename[0] not in drives:
        use(devicename, sharename, username, password)

Whether this would be desirable depends on whether the user of the
script needs a friendlier error message than a traceback.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                     staschuk at telusplanet.net
Receive them ignorant; dispatch them confused.  (Weschler's Teaching Motto)




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jun  2 11:03:24 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 08:03:24 -0700
Subject: reStructured Text - suitable for non-documentation?
References: <slrnbdle2r.h32.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306020703.3db3a717@posting.google.com>

Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> wrote in message news:<slrnbdle2r.h32.bignose-hates-spam at iris.polar.local>...
> Howdy all,
> 
> I'm engaged on a low-priority, long-term project to "refactor" my web
> pages.  I don't want the content in a database; I'm much more
> comfortable editing text files.  However, I do want content to be
> completely separate from presentation markup or code.
> 
> So I've been investigating the various plain-text markup schemes
> available.  I.e., the ones where the idea is that the source be
> reasonably readable as a plain-text document, and existing plain-text
> "markup" conventions be leveraged as much as possible.  The Wiki
> schemes, the BB schemes, et al are all in this group.  None of them are
> particularly satisfactory though.
> 
> My latest investigation is of reStructured Text, the proposed docutil
> markup scheme:
> 
>   <http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html>
> 
> This seems a well thought out scheme, with coverage of most of the
> things I want to do in web pages.
> 
> So, some questions:
> 
> Who is using reStructured Text actively?

Many programmers.

> Who's using it for things other than Python documentation?

I am using it for everything I write (except my scientific papers
which are in latex).

> How applicable do you think it is for non-documentation text?

Very applicable, if you don't have special requirements. Notice that
rst comes with a latex writer, pretty useful if you want to print
the output. You can mix rst commands and latex commands and tune the 
final output quite well.

Still, keep in mind that rst is intended for SIMPLE documents, if
you have stringent requirements probably it is better to use a
more heavy weight approach.

> Are there non-Python tools for processing it (preferably PHP)?
> Am I insane for even thinking of such a thing?
> Are there better alternatives (i.e. ones specifically designed for
> marking up web page content in plain text)?

I leave these questions to others.

Recently, I have found a nice application for rst in the context of
DDD (Documentation Driven Development, dunno if the acronym already
exists ;)
and I thinks it may be of interest to people here (if not to the OP).

As an experiment, I started a project by writing the documentation
first.
The documentation is in rst and contains several example of usages
(plus
an appendix which is a large test suite); the examples are run by
using the following script:

# doc_test.py

"""Search text files for examples to run via doctest. Example of
usage:

$ doc_test doc1.txt -v doc2.txt doc3.txt

This runs the examples in doc1.txt in silent mode and the
examples in doc2.txt and doc3.txt in verbose mode."""

import sys,doctest

def test(*args):
    t=doctest.Tester(globs={},verbose=0) # default, non-verbose
    for name in args:
        if name=='-v': # verbose option
            t=doctest.Tester(globs={},verbose=1) 
        else: # the argument is assumed to be a filename
            t.runstring(file(name).read(),name)

if __name__=='__main__': # bare bone argument processing
    args=sys.argv[1:]
    if not args: print __doc__
    else: test(*args)

I must say that after having written the documentation and the
examples,
writing the program in such a way to satify the tests has been much
more
effective and fast than I expected, since I had exactly clear in mind
the
required specifications and I didn't wasted time in trying to
implement
more than needed (which is my usual weakness ;)

Also, doctest is *much* easier to use than unittest (that I haven't
studied
well yet...)

HTH,
                                   Michele



From nosp at m.needed  Fri Jun 20 07:44:47 2003
From: nosp at m.needed (Steve McAllister)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:44:47 +0200
Subject: shebang strange thing...
In-Reply-To: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <bcus6i$1rl$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr>

> $ ./myscript.py
> error : interpreter not found. (!!!)

Ensure your very first line _is_ exactly the one you _see_ , i.e. 
`#!/usr/bin/python\n', without any additional invisible character; 
trailing `\x00\n', for instance, would make you believe your script 
runs fine but does nothing.

I bet bash nerves shall be soothed if you delete then quietly rewrite 
this line.




From cben at techunix.technion.ac.il  Mon Jun  9 11:59:12 2003
From: cben at techunix.technion.ac.il (Beni Cherniavsky)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:59:12 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <Xns93959D559A750duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <20030609081617512-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
 <Xns93959D559A750duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.51.0306091851190.19856@techunix.technion.ac.il>

Duncan Booth wrote on 2003-06-09:

> You need to say what order the modifiers are applied when there is
> more than one. Specifically is it left to right, or right to left?
>
> I wonder what the implementation of this should be. Should the
> bytecode that is produced implement a loop over the modifiers
> directly, or should there be a new builtin that takes the function
> and the modifiers as arguments and the bytecode simply has to call
> the function and assign its result to the name? The second of these
> sounds as though it ought to be simpler to implement.
>
In the latter case you don't need new builtins at all.  Just
compile::

    def spam() [foo, bar]:
        pass

exactly as::

    def spam():
        pass
    spam = foo(spam)
    spam = bar(spam)

The limitation for avoiding a loop is that the individual expressions
of the items should be known when compiling.  You can always allow the
generic case with a loop and consider this purely an optimization.

I wrote the last lines this way rather than::

    spam = bar(foo(spam))

to emphasize the order.  IMO since they are written at the end of the
line, the only sensible order is applying them left-to-right.  This is
like postfix (reverse polish) notation: the outermost application is
written last.

-- 
Beni Cherniavsky <cben at users.sf.net>




From gb at cs.unc.edu  Thu Jun 19 14:15:00 2003
From: gb at cs.unc.edu (Gary Bishop)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 11:15:00 -0700
Subject: Wrapper for DirectSound?
Message-ID: <cdf7f9b9.0306191015.58c0bdbc@posting.google.com>

Does someone have a Python-callable wrapper for DirectSound that you'd
be willing to share? I want to replace OpenAL in our audio mapping
application. I especially interested in 3d sound but anything would
help.

Thanks
gb



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jun 20 03:45:30 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 07:45:30 GMT
Subject: Need help optimizing first script
References: <a34b632.0306190503.32483efe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bcue2q$kts$0@216.39.172.122>

On 19 Jun 2003 06:03:22 -0700, popup391 at yahoo.com (Frederic Lafleche) wrote:

>I put this script together mainly from bits and pieces I picked up in
>this newsgroup and one or two books lying around. What it does is map
>a given NT network drive and copy a file to it if some conditions are
>met.  As this is my first script, I'm looking for ways to improve code
>in any possible way, whether it's overall design, style, grammar,
>logic, readability, performance, validation, anything.
>
>#copyacs.py
>import os, shutil, sys, time, win32file
>from win32wnet import WNetAddConnection2, error
>
># Functions
>
># Generate timestamp
># OUTPUT: string in yyymmddhhmm format
>def determineFN():
    """Use time module's builtin formatting to return current time as yyyymmddhhmm"""
    return time.strftime('%Y%m%d%H%M')

No one seems to have mentioned strftime yet ;-)

>    # Get current time
>    now = time.time()
>    # Parse elements
>    (Iyear, Imonth, Iday, Ihour, Iminute) = (time.localtime(now)[:5])
>    year = str(Iyear)
>    month = str(Imonth)
>    day = str(Iday)
>    hour = str(Ihour)
>    minute = str(Iminute)
>      
>    # Padding
>    if len(month) == 1:
>        month = '0' + month
>    if len(day) == 1:
>        day = '0' + day
>    if len(hour) == 1:
>        hour = '0' + hour
>    if len(minute) == 1:
>        minute = '0' + minute
>
>    return year + month + day + hour + minute

There's other stuff to comment on, but I'm lazy right now ;-)
It's fun to (re)invent stuff, but for most common things, someone's
been there before by now, and it will often show up in the builtins
or a module, so if you are using  module, it pays to read the docs ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From ed at membled.com  Thu Jun  5 17:33:17 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 22:33:17 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054675867.2029.python-list@python.org> <l1of1dljbd.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054759872.4871.python-list@python.org> <l1brxdlfac.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054837391.22613.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l1znkwjjky.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:

>    class config(object):
>        def command_setcolour(self, value):     
>            # ...
>        # etc.
>        def perform(self, command, arg):
>            getattr(self, 'command_' + command)(arg)
>
>whereupon reading the configuration is just
>
>    cfg = config()
>    for cmd, arg in commands:
>        cfg.perform(cmd, arg)

That does look pretty reasonable I must admit.  I didn't think of such
a solution (pasting together 'command_' and the string read from
input) because I was thinking in a C-ish kind of way.  Of course in
Python there is no obstacle to writing such code, except maybe a small
speed reduction.

>>It's just frustrating not to be able to write the function
>>definitions inline, in the obvious place, especially when they might
>>be only one line each and there is the 'lambda' keyword which at
>>first looks so inviting and useful.
> 
>Yes, I see your point.  However, I don't think anything can be done
>about it without throwing away the present use of indentation for
>block delimiting.

I don't think this is true; if lambda were modified to allow
assignment, for example, the whole expression would still fit on one
line.  (Of course, a multi-line lambda which used indentation to show
the function body would be welcome...)

>Also, a scheme such as the above, with an explicit configuration
>object, seems quite natural to me.

It works well in this case.  However this is just one example of where
you might want to use anonymous functions, and have to use something
else because of lambda's shortcomings.  Another case was in an
application I was writing a while back where I wanted to compare two
data structures and generate a 'diff'.  The function was to return
None if its two arguments were identical, otherwise a function which
could be applied to the first data structure to generate the second.
I started writing the code in a recursive, moderately 'functional'
style to generate this diff function, but was disappointed to find out
that such a technique could never work in Python (as it currently
stands).

(And yes, I did eventually find a different way to do the job, but it
was IMHO not as clear and not as maintainable.  There are always
workarounds for a missing language feature - you could write a whole
program without using the 'if' statement - but while in some cases the
alternative style may be more obvious and more idiomatic, it isn't
always.)

Anyway, I think we have established an answer to the original question
I asked, which was can you do assignment inside an expression.  The
answer is not really, although you can do a lot of things like setattr
or setdefault which have similar effects to assignment but aren't.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jun 13 11:25:44 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:25:44 -0400
Subject: Execute a process as a specific user
References: <3EE9E547.9040209@wanadoo.es>
Message-ID: <3EE9ECF8.1A6E41DA@engcorp.com>

Maurix wrote:
> 
> How can i execute a process as a specific user from a process
> with root privileges?

See the various routines under the "os" module: 
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-procinfo.html

You would want things like setuid() and/or seteuid().  


> i'm doing this now with this command
> 
> os.system("su usuario -c comando")
> 
> Can i make this whitout the "su" command

Sure!  Log in as root, then run the script.

-Peter



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jun 18 15:30:30 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 21:30:30 +0200
Subject: minidom question from a newbie
References: <3e37e260.774392843@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <m38yrzji95.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

henk.derudder at nowayyouneedthis.sciatl.com writes:

> Is it possible to go the other way around, like building
> that tree structure in memory and saving this in XML-file?

Try .toxml().

Regards,
Martin



From Henk  Wed Jun 18 03:18:50 2003
From: Henk (Henk)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:18:50 GMT
Subject: Newbie question concerning map functionality
Message-ID: <3ef00f1e.1122069984@news.skynet.be>

Hi all,

I want to use the built-in map function to speed up the following for
loop. But I somehow fail to incorporate the unction called in the
argument. Can somebody help me out?

for child in self.childNodes:
    clone.appendChild(child.cloneNode(1))


Thanks,
Henk



From tom1 at launchbird.com  Wed Jun  4 14:24:18 2003
From: tom1 at launchbird.com (Tom Hawkins)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 11:24:18 -0700
Subject: ANN: Confluence -> Python for Hardware Verification
References: <833030c0.0306021505.43d5cdf6@posting.google.com> <bbi8rq$glp$1@sirius.dur.ac.uk> <833030c0.0306031015.5dcebf7a@posting.google.com> <bbks5h$cu9$1@sirius.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <833030c0.0306041024.fc02f87@posting.google.com>

christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk (Christopher Saunter) wrote in message 
> : Confluence actually originated from a Python based HDL called
> : ParaCore (http://www.dilloneng.com/paracore.html).
> 
> I use a rather simpler (read naffer ;-) Python based simulater for 
> synchronous logic I wrote to help design some dspish projects.  One thing 
> I use is a GUI front end, primarily for visualising dataflow through a 
> desgin - I find visual feedback drastically simplifies aligning data 
> pipelines and control flow etc.  From a brief look at the Confluence docs 
> on the Python model, it should not be to involved to produce a GUI 
> front end for it.  Is this something Launchbird plan, or is there 
> scope / interest for a GUI front end for visualisation of the Python 
> models?  Of the various suported languages, I expect Python would be the 
> best suited to such a task.

I also believe dataflow visualization (aka. block diagrams)
greatly aids design and debugging.  Before coding, we
used to sketch out components in Simulink, just using subsystems,
ports, and wires; nothing else.  Simulink is great for this.
I just wish Matlab sold a low-cost non-simulation version.

I've search the net many times, but have never found a good
open-source block diagram editor -- a tool that is not only
invaluable for hardware design, but also very practical for
software applications, especially hard real-time systems.

For the near future, Confluence will stay strictly command line.
At one point, we did consider incorporating model visualization,
but we were just too busy to get it off the ground.

However, if an open-source Python/wxWindows block diagram editor project
were to appear on the seen, we would certainly contribute development
time.  And given the BDE's file format, we'd build up code to
translate from our internal representation.

> 
> Also, from reading the docs, maybee it's time I revived my side project of 
> investigating Haskell...
> 

May I recommend Ocaml?  We couldn't have gotten Confluence flowing without it.

-Tom

--
Tom Hawkins
Launchbird Design Systems, Inc.
952-200-3790
tom1 at launchbird.com
http://www.launchbird.com/


> : The first Confluence seat is free, indefinite, and
> : enables the full compiler -- no size or performance restrictions.
> : Our revenue comes from the medium to larger design firms.
> 
> Nice one.  I hope that aproach proves fruitfull - it is certianly 
> appreciated at my end of the world.
> 
> Cheers,
> 	Chris Saunter



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Jun 24 08:49:41 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 05:49:41 -0700
Subject: Python and Jython
Message-ID: <1056458981.3ef848e5ea620@mcherm.com>

Mulugeta Maru writes:
> My background is Java. I would like to know the difference between Python
> and Jython. Are they different languages? Should I learn Python first and
> then Jython? The reason I would like to learn the language is to use it with
> Java.

Jython and Python are the *same* language. This doesn't mean that they
are identical in all respects... there are several important differences.
But that's a lot like using Netscape's javascript versus Microsoft's...
(back before EMCAscript was standardized) if you stick to the basic things 
they'll work the same way in both, but you can find lots of differences lurking 
in the corners.

The most important differences are the truly fundamental ones that motivated 
having two different implementations. CPython (the proper name for the C-based 
version of Python, although people usually just call it "python") is written in 
C. This means that it can be EXTENDED in C, and there are lots of useful 
extensions (and some built into the standard distribution) that exist for 
CPython which allow OS-specific features like Microsoft com objects and unix 
interrupts, or to c libraries (several windowing libraries for instance), or 
c's speed (Numeric and libraries for doing scientific computations). Jython has 
none of these.

Meanwhile, Jython runs on the java virtual machine (although that isn't really 
an advantage on portability, since CPython is more portable than the JVM). The 
most important feature of Jython is that Jython progams can call Java objects, 
Java programs can call Jython objects, and the Jython can be compiled into 100% 
pure (compiled) Java code! The level of inter-language integration is really 
astounding, and makes Jython the perfect choice for scripting Java programs, 
interactively examining Java code, and so forth. Also, it means that Jython 
programs can take advantage of Java's huge libraries. They have fewer OS-
specific features, but lots of useful things like JDBC, etc.

The other difference that I've noticed is that a lot more people work on 
CPython than are working on Jython. As a result, CPython is a couple of 
versions ahead of Jython and keeps adding new features. Hopefully Jython can 
attract more volunteers and manage to keep up (because some of the new features 
are pretty nice).

There are, of course, some syntactic differences... the page 
http://www.jython.org/docs/differences.html will list some, but it is very 
dated since CPython has changed a lot in since version 2.0 -- for instance, it 
says that CPython lacks circular garbage collection, but that has since been 
added. Nevertheless, it's a useful guide.

Since what you want to do is mostly to use Python with Java, I'd suggest that 
you start out with Jython. You'll find that you can move to CPython anytime, 
and that nearly everything you learned in Jython will work perfectly (except 
that which depended on Java libraries).

-- Michael Chermside





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sat Jun  7 12:13:51 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:13:51 -0600
Subject: finding origin of names
In-Reply-To: <gozptIAYyc4+EwH6@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>; from robin@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk on Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 12:29:28PM +0100
References: <gozptIAYyc4+EwH6@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20030607101351.A341@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Robin Becker:
  [...]
> #a.py
> v=1
> 
> #b.py
> from a import v
> 
> >>> import a, b
> >>> a.v is b.v
> 1
> >>> dir(a)
> ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'v']
> >>> dir(b)
> ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'v']
> >>>
> 
> do I have to inspect the code to determine that module a defines v? 

It's not clear to me what this question means.

First, a.v and b.v are distinct names, that is, they can be
rebound independently; so surely you have to ask separately
whether a given module defines a.v and whether it defines b.v.

Second, I'm not sure what "defines" means here.  Do you just want
the location of the last assignment statement (or def statement,
etc.) which bound that name?  (I don't think that information is
easily available.)  And if so, why do you care?  It's all the same
object regardless of which code bound it to the name you're using
to refer to it.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Our analysis begins with two outrageous benchmarks."
  -- "Implementation strategies for continuations", Clinger et al.




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun 18 05:53:32 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:53:32 +0200
Subject: PSU (Was: Re: EuroPython's 4th Interview)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055890202.8039.clpa-moderators@python.org>
References: <mailman.1055890202.8039.clpa-moderators@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030618095332.GA3210@nl.linux.org>

http://www.europython.org/other/interviews/entries/martijn_faassen:
> This is all entirely rumor though. I disclaim any knowledge of such matters, as the PSU does not exist.

(...)

> Finally, I won't be at any Python Secret Underground meetings at EuroPython, as there is no such thing as the PSU and there is certainly no plan to hold any PSU meetings on the Open Spaces track.

"I did not have s..."

This sounds like the Office of Strategic Influence denying the existence
of the Office of Strategic Influence: if PSU existence would be acknowledged.
it's whole purpose would disappear; it would become the PWNU. If the PSU
would not exist, we would today have a case-sensitive language with
lambda's; hence, we should be glad the PSU exists.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
24. If persons are stolen, then shall the community and ... pay one
mina of silver to their relatives.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From shahsyedahmed at rediffmail.com  Tue Jun 17 20:48:38 2003
From: shahsyedahmed at rediffmail.com (Syed Ahmed Shah)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 17:48:38 -0700
Subject: How to make an executable file
Message-ID: <b675611e.0306171648.a289a4e@posting.google.com>

I am a begineer. I know how a C++ compiler makes an executable file
from the source code, which you can run anywhere, independent of the
Compiler. But how does one do it in Python. Is it necessary to have
the Python interpreter in the machine to run an application written in
Python. I know this sounds lame.But please help me anyone.



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Jun 22 03:20:31 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 08:20:31 +0100
Subject: Steaming PDF from Python Script to IE
References: <4b46139c.0306211630.1aeb3ffa@posting.google.com> <3ef50e78@nntp>
 <Xns93A249FD8260CJanC@213.118.38.73>
Message-ID: <wR$9jLA$iV9+Ew+r@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <Xns93A249FD8260CJanC at 213.118.38.73>, JanC
<usenet_spam at janc.invalid> writes
>Stephen Thorne <stephen at thorne.id.au> schreef:
>
>> Also windows likes \r\n for CRLF, whereas you were just sending LF
>> (which is sufficient for unixes). 
>
>This has nothing to do with Windows vs. unix, the HTTP standard defines 
>CRLF as the only valid EOL marker for everything except the body.
>
>
>From RFC-2616 "Hypertext Transfer Protocol -- HTTP/1.1":
>
>| 2.2 Basic Rules
>| 
>| [...]
>|    HTTP/1.1 defines the sequence CR LF as the end-of-line marker for all
>|    protocol elements except the entity-body (see appendix 19.3 for
>|    tolerant applications). The end-of-line marker within an entity-body
>|    is defined by its associated media type, as described in section 3.7.
>
>Appendix 19.3 recommends tolerance for broken applications that send only 
>LF as EOF-marker.
>
it would also be wise to remember that PDF is a binary format itself
although to the casual eye it can look like ascii. Acrobat reader is
pretty clever at allowing for mistakes in this assumption, but many
printers are more picky.

ReportLab's cgi scripts routinely run with the shebang lines of the form

#!/mybin/python -u

to demand unbuffered binary i/o. 
-- 
Robin Becker



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Mon Jun  9 09:53:11 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Mon,  9 Jun 2003 06:53:11 -0700
Subject: Why is lambda so slow?
Message-ID: <1055166791.3ee49147ecd2d@mcherm.com>

> Dear people,
> 
>     What's the reason of lambda being so slow?
> 
> zeallous

Dear zeallous:

You are mistaken, lambda isn't slow. Why, I tried it on my system,
and the following program:

>>> f = lambda x: x + 1
>>> for i in range(112):
...     y = f(2)
...
>>>

ran in less than 5 seconds on my machine. That's well over 100
lambdas, that got run in less time than it took me to get my
smallest hourglass flipped over! Seems pretty fast to me.

If you had a particular situation in which you found lambda
was too slow for your use, then I might be able to comment more
helpfully on your specific situation.

-- Michael Chermside





From txo at cs.nott.ac.uk  Thu Jun 12 09:42:05 2003
From: txo at cs.nott.ac.uk (Turhan Ozen)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:42:05 +0100
Subject: copy a class
References: <3EE880E3.6000904@cs.nott.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3EE8832D.9090502@cs.nott.ac.uk>

I was using deepcopy. Now I tried copy and it doesn't give the same 
error. What does deepcopy do different than copy?  I read on deepcopy 
and copy but I didn't understand well what the difference is. Maybe I 
should read again, but if it is not going to be a difficulty for  you, 
could please explain briefly?

Thanks,
Turhan




From exarkun at intarweb.us  Sat Jun  7 05:20:04 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 05:20:04 -0400
Subject: Where is MySQLdb module?
In-Reply-To: <bbs90h$obe$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl>
References: <bbs90h$obe$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <20030607092004.GB20747@meson.dyndns.org>

On Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 10:47:17AM +0200, Husam wrote:
> hi, I'm trying to get started with MySQLdb but the import of this module in
> my python script failed. I looked for it in python.org, but could't find any
> reference to this module. Can you please helpl me in setting up this module
> in python?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 

 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=mysqldb&btnG=Google+Search

-- 
Seduced, shaggy Samson snored.
She scissored short.  Sorely shorn,
Soon shackled slave, Samson sighed,
Silently scheming,
Sightlessly seeking
Some savage, spectacular suicide.
                -- Stanislaw Lem, "Cyberiad"




From mickel at csc.fi  Wed Jun 18 02:15:13 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:15:13 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Displaying IPA characters in Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <m3k7blupeb.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0306180913420.26398-100000@sampo.csc.fi>

On 17 Jun 2003, Martin v. [iso-8859-15] L?wis wrote:

> > 2. How do I make my Tkinter application accept IPA characters as input in
> > entry fields?
>
> How do you enter IPA characters in any other application? I usually
> would enter them through cut-and-paste from charmap.exe on Windows,
> which works fine with Tk as well.

So there is no way of conduct for mapping a regular keyboard to IPA
characters, is there? (I.e. binding say 'a' to a turned 'a' etc.)

/Mickel





From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jun  4 00:04:22 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 03 Jun 2003 23:04:22 -0500
Subject: dictionary issue (and maybe PEP ... depending on the answer)
In-Reply-To: <0wBCa.651$ig1.627675@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
References: <0wBCa.651$ig1.627675@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <1054699462.719.33.camel@lothlorien>

On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 00:45, dsavitsk wrote:
> never mind, for now, that there are proably better ways to do what the 
> dict obviously does.  anyhow, I get a list of the months by doing this
> 
>  >>> [_months[i] for i in _months.keys()]

Now what I'd like is:

[m for m, i in _months.items() sortby i]

Such an addition to list comprehension would make everyone who doesn't
like the sort method happy, plus it's just a much better way to express
sorting, so you could do things like:

[p for p in people sortby p.lastname, p.firstname]

instead of:

l = people[:]
l.sort(lambda a, b: cmp((a.lastname, a.firstname), 
                        (b.lastname, b.firstname))







From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Jun  6 11:22:03 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:22:03 -0400
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com>
 <m24r34pzkj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
 <i39udvo7e11828rkmudo93hj3dr68bft95@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bGL4+ks/KfWH089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <i39udvo7e11828rkmudo93hj3dr68bft95 at 4ax.com>,
Chuck <cdreward at riaa.com> wrote:
>I'm not "getting" variables in Python, then.
>
>What exactly happens when I say "arg = v"?

   Find `v` in the local or global namespace and note the
object that's associated with it.

   Make an entry in the local namespace that associates that
object with the name `arg`.  (Unless it's already
established that `arg` is in the global namespace.  Let's
not deal with that now.)

   That's it.

        Regards.        Mel.



From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Jun 24 05:51:39 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:51:39 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <23891c90.0306240121.6a71a140@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306241337120.4447-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On 24 Jun 2003, Paul Boddie wrote:

> Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message news:<mailman.1056387220.30017.python-list at python.org>...
> > In case of XML I will need something like
> > 
> > <?xml version="1.0"?>
> > <foo>123</foo><bar>456</bar><zoo>la&quot;lala</zoo>
> > 
> > - not a big deal, but it's harder to parse. And also XML software keeps
> > changing (or so it seems), and this gives a sense of instability.
> 
> How hard is it to call a parse function on some XML module? (Bearing
> in mind that your example isn't a well-formed XML document since it

Oh... Then it is even worse:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<variables><foo>123</foo><bar>456</bar><zoo>la&quot;lala</zoo></variables>

> doesn't have a single root element, even though I do like using "zoo"
> elements in examples myself. :-) )

Is there any standard on examplar ennumeration?
We all know foo and bar, but which are officially next?
;-)
 
> > XML always gives me a feeling that I do not fully master it (especially it's
> > DTD part)! And this is after two years of trying to understand it. (Cf: with
> > Python felt at home after a week or two!)
> 
> It can often be a question of ambition, since I can imagine that many
> people don't really use DTDs or XML Schemas to get their work done. In
> any case, it isn't clear what the corresponding technology to DTD is
> in the Python environment - optional, but not yet invented, static
> type annotations?

Probably Grammar file.
 
> > P.S. Just look at the neighboor thread:
> > Subject: minidom toxml() not emitting attribute namespace qualifier
 
> It may be the case that you don't see a need for XML in your work. In
> my opinion it's completely acceptable to not use XML if you find it
> completely irrelevant, unfathomable or opaque, but I respect your
> desire to become aware of what the technology can offer. 
>I'm reminded
> of the occasional article written by people who ask others to
> "convince me why I should run Linux" - the only useful response is
> that if one can't see a need to try it without writing a public
> document asking others to persuade them, then they probably shouldn't
> be spending too much time worrying about it.

Hmmm. Interesting. But I really wanted to know people opinion pro et
contra.

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 





From bsimuyandi at africonnect.com  Wed Jun 11 07:09:41 2003
From: bsimuyandi at africonnect.com (Ben Simuyandi)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:09:41 +0100
Subject: Newbie: changing an attribute of objects in a list
Message-ID: <bc72gq$cv3$1@main.gmane.org>

Hello. I am very new to Python and I'm stuck with a problem. I am using
Zope, and the problem is:

I have a list of objects, each of which has several attributes. I would like
to sort these objects by a specific attribute, which is a string. This I can
manage OK. But if two objects have the same attribute value, I would like to
change the older (age determined by another attribute) object's attribute
to a new value of (old value+1), then go through the list and see if any
other object has this value, if so give it (old value+2) etc.

I hope I have made the problem clear. I know that my code is wrong, but I
would like some hints as to what I am doing wrong. Some of it comes down to
a lack of understanding of Python.

The ordering attribute I'll call "ordering", the age attribute I'll call
"age", and the list of objects is "contents". I thought that the way to do
this was by calling a function recursively. Anyway, below is the code, any
feedback is appreciated.


def check_listingorder(x, contents):
  for y in contents:
    if x.Id != y.Id:                                           #each object
has a unique id
      xorder=int(x.ordering)                             #convert the string
to an integer
      yorder=int(y.ordering)
      if xorder==yorder:                                    #if the ordering
attribute is the same then...
        if x.age> y.age:                                       #if x is
older than y then...
          xorder=xorder+1
         <set object ordering value to xorder>
          check_listingorder(x, contents)
#call function again?
        elif y.age> x.age:                                       #if y is
older than x then...
          yorder=yorder+1
         <set object ordering value to yorder>
          check_listingorder(y, contents)                              #call
function again?
  return contents                                                #return the
list?

for x in contents:                                               #originally
called with:
  check_listingorder(x, contents)







From nagylzs at freemail.hu  Thu Jun 26 13:05:19 2003
From: nagylzs at freemail.hu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nagy_L=E1szl=F3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:05:19 +0200
Subject: Something strange with python 2.2.1 under RedHat 8.0
References: <20030626112050.432981fd.rjkuhns@geetel.net>
Message-ID: <3EFB27CF.9050901@freemail.hu>

>
>
>I can't iterate over os.environ, while a 'hand-made' dictionary works.  It
>works fine with python 2.2.3 under FreeBSD 4.8. I looked through the
>release notes but didn't find anything I thought applied, so I guess I'd
>just like to know if this is something peculiar to my system, or is it
>more wide-spread? 
>
I think it is more wide-spread. :-(

D:\Python\Projects>python
Python 2.2.1 (#34, Apr 9 2002, 19:34:33) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import os
 >>> os.environ
{'TMP': 'D:\\DOCUME~1\\Laci\\LOCALS~1\\Temp', 'USERNAME': 'Laci', 
'COMPUTERNAME'
: 'EARTH', 'LOGONSERVER': '\\\\EARTH', 'PROMPT': '$P$G', 'COMSPEC': 
'D:\\WINDOWS
\\system32\\cmd.exe', 'USERDOMAIN': 'EARTH', 'PYTHONPATH': 
'D:\\Python\\Lib;D:\\
Projects\\GeochemSource\\WebSpiders\\Lib', 'COMMONPROGRAMFILES': 
'D:\\Program Fi
les\\Common Files', 'PROCESSOR_IDENTIFIER': 'x86 Family 6 Model 8 
Stepping 1, Au
thenticAMD', 'PROGRAMFILES': 'D:\\Program Files', 'PROCESSOR_REVISION': 
'0801',
'SYSTEMROOT': 'D:\\WINDOWS', 'PATHEXT': 
'.COM;.EXE;.BAT;.CMD;.VBS;.VBE;.JS;.JSE;
.WSF;.WSH', 'CLIENTNAME': 'Console', 'PATH': 
'D:\\WINDOWS\\system32;D:\\WINDOWS;
D:\\WINDOWS\\System32\\Wbem;D:\\PROGRA~1\\Borland\\Delphi6\\Bin;D:\\Lib\\Bpl;D:\
\Python22', 'WINDIR': 'D:\\WINDOWS', 'TEMP': 
'D:\\DOCUME~1\\Laci\\LOCALS~1\\Temp
', 'HOMEDRIVE': 'D:', 'ALLUSERSPROFILE': 'D:\\Documents and 
Settings\\All Users'
, 'SYSTEMDRIVE': 'D:', 'PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE': 'x86', 
'NUMBER_OF_PROCESSORS':
'1', 'APPDATA': 'D:\\Documents and Settings\\Laci\\Application Data', 
'PROCESSOR
_LEVEL': '6', 'SESSIONNAME': 'Console', 'HOMEPATH': '\\Documents and 
Settings\\L
aci', 'OS': 'Windows_NT', 'USERPROFILE': 'D:\\Documents and Settings\\Laci'}
 >>> for i in os.environ:
... print i
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
File "D:\Python22\Lib\os.py", line 387, in __getitem__
return self.data[key.upper()]
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'upper'
 >>> d = {1:'',2:'sadf',3:2134}
 >>> for i in d:
... print i
...
1
2
3
 >>>
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From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Mon Jun 23 06:49:37 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:49:37 +0200
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <bd6l7a$21im$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

"Mel Wilson" <mwilson at the-wire.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:
yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn at the-wire.com...
> In article <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840 at newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
> Van Gale <news at exultants.org> wrote:
> >Erik Max Francis wrote:
> >> Van Gale wrote:
> >>>There's a very subtle bug (feature?) in bash (and maybe other shells?)
> >>>that will generate this error if the line is terminated with a CR/LF
> >>>pair instead of just a linefeed.
> >> Yes, it's common to other shells.  It's not a feature, but it's not a
> >> "bug" per se -- using CR LF terminated text files on Unix is operator
> >> error.
>
> >Well guess what, it happens.  It even happens when the "operator" is
> >aware of the problem.  So lets not call it a bug, and instead call it
> >poor programming because the error message is not only incorrect, but
> >will also waste a fair amount of time of someone trying to debug the
> >problem because it points them in the wrong direction.
>
>    It's understandable once you realize that the shell
> thinks the '\r' is part of the filename.  Just like
>
>     os.execv ('/usr/bin/python\r', ('myfile.py',))
>
>         Regards.        Mel.

IMHO, it's "buggy" :

* most unix/windows/macos modern tools accept any end of line mark, like
Python does.

* the errror message points the user to a bad direction.

--Gilles




From dwblas at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  5 16:19:19 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (DavidW Blaschke)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:19:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to reply????
Message-ID: <20030605201919.53918.qmail@web21604.mail.yahoo.com>

When I hit the reply button I get 3 choices:
    1. python-list at cwi.ni
    2. the e-mail address of the person who posted
    3. python-list-owner at yahoogroups.com

I think I want to post to python-list at python.org. 
Does anyone have a good way to do this without cutting
and pasting the message into compose, and mailing it
as normal e-mail?

Thanks in advance.
D.W.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jun 22 03:07:09 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 22 Jun 2003 09:07:09 +0200
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org> <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com> <slrnbf8tsd.qc.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <m3r85nmoch.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnbfab88.s70.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <m38yrubnfm.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> writes:

> In terms of storage of data, yes, a program source file would count as
> plain ASCII, since there is no other markup or control structure.  (The
> *semantics* of the data aren't important to this discussion, since we're
> talking about the *format* of the data).

I see, and HTML and RFC-822 messages wouldn't be flat files, since
there are "embedded codes specifc to a particular text formatter
markup language".

Regards,
Martin




From http  Mon Jun  2 10:02:06 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Jun 2003 07:02:06 -0700
Subject: CGI question: safe passwords possible?
References: <cb035744.0305301401.3fdc8a96@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054338287.30346.python-list@python.org> <7xwug82ag0.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3EDB4CC2.B34F910C@engcorp.com> <7xhe784n6u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3EDB5666.A97908C2@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <7xwug4efxd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> Ah, a nice solution, I would say.  If the password is actually compromised,
> requiring the user to contact the adminstrator to "reset" their password,
> or asking the server to generate a new password which is sent via email,
> would be reasonably acceptable approaches.

If the opponent is intercepting web traffic they're probably also
intercepting email.  It's sort of possible to implement low-exponent
RSA encryption in Javascript if you're crazy enough.  The user could
choose a new password and send it to the server that way.

It's all silly though, SSL is definitely the way to do this.  Any
application with serious enough security requirements to worry about
passwords getting intercepted from IP traffic needs to choose good
hosting providers, and those usually offer SSL.



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Jun 27 09:16:57 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:16:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Namespacedifference reading - writing ??
References: <13a533e8.0306270455.431d3cfd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93A79094D6C58duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel) wrote in 
news:13a533e8.0306270455.431d3cfd at posting.google.com:

> Is there really a difference in namespacehandling depending
> on writing or reading variables?

Yes, in most cases Python can determine at compile time whether you are 
referencing a local variable, a nested scope variable, or a global 
variable. The rules for this are quite simple:

If a variable is listed in a global statement it is a global.
Otherwise, if you assign to it, it is local.
Otherwise, if there is a variable of the same name in a nested scope, it is 
a nested scope variable.
Otherwise it is either global or builtin (which it is, is decided at 
runtime).


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From listbox at cybereal.org  Sat Jun 14 06:41:50 2003
From: listbox at cybereal.org (Zac Jensen)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 04:41:50 -0600
Subject: Hot to get Python executable's path ??
In-Reply-To: <Law15-F38y3P5snV6pU000529b0@hotmail.com>
References: <Law15-F38y3P5snV6pU000529b0@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200306140441.52192.listbox@cybereal.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Saturday 14 June 2003 04:13 am, vivek kumar wrote:
> >
> >The shebang only works on unix variant systems.  Windows simply ignores it
> >and
> >goes by the filename extension instead.
>
> Hmm.., but on My windows 2k system I am using Apache and if I try to run
> script as CGI script without giving the shebang line it simply gives me
>
>    500 Internal Server Error
>
> with error
> [Sat Jun 14 15:38:44 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] C:/Program
> Files/Apache Group/Apache2/htdocs/fireshop/environ.py is not executable;
> ensure interpreted scripts have "#!" first line
> [Sat Jun 14 15:38:44 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] (9)Bad file
> descriptor: don't know how to spawn child process: C:/Program Files/Apache
> Group/Apache2/htdocs/fireshop/environ.py
>
>
> Anyway , I recently find out the solution. I tried
>
>    sys.executable
>
> and it works on both windows and linux. So I think I can use it safely to
> substitute the shebang line. Am I right ??

Should be fine, that's odd that apache is honoring the shebang hack in win32, 
but, good I suppose.

sys.executable or equiv. should work fine if you're just checking it during 
install.

- -Zac
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From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun  2 09:13:05 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:13:05 -0400
Subject: Twisted
References: <bb8pev$nqh$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
	 <bb8u91$7594h$1@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.1054365886.2125.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EDB4D61.8341855B@engcorp.com>

David Mertz wrote:
> 
> Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?= <gh at ghaering.de> wrote previously:
> |As I said, they overly advertise Twisted. The reason is they're quite
> |enthusiastic about it. I personally like Twisted, too. If only I could
> |find an application that would lend itself to the asynchronous model ;-)
> 
> I suppose I'm pretty guilty of the same sin.  I've never used an IRC, so
> no sinfulness on that channel.  But if you check the history of my posts
> to this group, I'm sure it shows a disproportionate number of plugs for
> my own software or articles as a solution to discussed problems (and not
> so many suggestions for other developers quite excellent libraries).
> 
> Along those lines, I think Chris Tismer has some Stackless guilt; David
> Goodger about reST; Greg Ewing over PLEX; and so on.  

You forget that worst-of-the-worst, Mr. van Rossum himself, who has
mercilessly plugged Python endlessly for years now, forcing it on
all of us, including the OP who is clearly so brainwashed that he didn't
even realize the irony in his post.  

-Peter  ;-)



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jun 22 22:21:14 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 02:21:14 GMT
Subject: division
References: <f2sJa.19621$pK2.28535@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <slrnbfcp0s.gfb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 01:44:54 +0100, kpop wrote:
> Hi, i am writing a maths program where i get input from the user and
> store it in a string. i then use the eval fucntion to return the right
> answer.

I wonder what sort of checking you're performing on the input, to
prevent users typing anything they like and having Python happily eval()
it.

> The problem is division, I would like it that only exact division was
> aloud, I mean no remainders.

Read about math.ceil() and math.floor():

    <http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-math.html#l2h-905>
    <http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-math.html#l2h-910>

> In python "22 / 5" returs an int of 5

Because both arguments to the division were specified as integers.  If
you make either argument a floating-point number, the result will also
be floating-point.

>>> 22 / 5
4
>>> 22.0 / 5
4.4000000000000004
>>> 22 / 5.0
4.4000000000000004
>>> import math
>>> math.floor( 22 / 5.0 )
4.0
>>> 

> i would like if that was illegal because 5 doesnt go into 22 , 4 times
> exactly, and have the eval function raise an execption which i could
> handle.

You want different behaviour to the existing arithmetic operators, which
try to return a meaningful result if possible, rather than raising an
exception.

> any advice?

I suppose you could create new numeric classes to raise exceptions when
they received input you don't like, but it seems like a lot of effort.
Better would be to validate the input better when it is received, so
that you didn't pass undesired inputs to the arithmetic.

Why not simply math.floor() the result, to force it to an integer?

-- 
 \        "Know what I hate most?  Rhetorical questions."  -- Henry N. |
  `\                                                              Camp |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jun 24 23:50:11 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:50:11 -0500
Subject: user variables
In-Reply-To: <3EF81F8C.9070103@domain.invalid> (user@domain.invalid's
 message of "Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:53:16 +0200")
References: <3EF81F8C.9070103@domain.invalid>
Message-ID: <m2of0mdde4.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "user" == user  <user at domain.invalid> writes:
    user> I tried globals(), locals() and vars(), but they all mix my
    user> user-defined variables with system ones... clues? ideas?

These are the right functions to be thinking about.  If I may be so
bold, perhaps you are not asking the right question.  What is it you
need to do?  You say you want to get the user defined variables.  To
what end?  Perhaps if you describe what it is you need to do, not how
you plan to do it, someone can offer an insightful solution.

Barring that, would it be helpful to remove the system/module vars by
first saving the keys of locals before user input, eg

from os import *  # import a bunch of non user-defined names for testing

def diffkeys(k1, k2):
    "return the keys in d1 that are not in d2"
    k2d = dict( [(k,1) for k in k2] )
    return [k for k in k1 if not k2d.has_key(k)]

def items_for_keys(keys, d):
    "return a list of (k,v) pairs for given keys in dict d"
    seen = dict( [(k,1) for k in keys] )
    return [ (k,v) for k,v in d.items() if seen.has_key(k)]

base = locals().keys()
#now come the user vars
x = 1
y = 2
new = locals().keys()
new.remove('base')    #a user var we aren't interested in
print items_for_keys(diffkeys(new, base), locals())


JDH




From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Fri Jun 13 13:48:56 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:48:56 -0600
Subject: Changing File Permissions
In-Reply-To: <bcd15p$61p$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>
References: <bcakmg$jv7$1@news-reader14.wanadoo.fr> <bcctqv$255v$1@news.peterlink.ru> <bcd15p$61p$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20030613174856.E11FB345DD@www.fastmail.fm>

Hi,

I'm trying to remove a file on a win2k box, but the readonly bit is set,
so I get an exception trying to os.remove it.  I'd prefer if I didn't
have to run an attrib -r command, and write something a little more
platform independent.  Is there some sort of chmod method that would
handle this?

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks.
-Justin




From ulope at gmx.de  Mon Jun  9 19:00:29 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 01:00:29 +0200
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <mailman.1055178919.28798.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc33ig$f34op$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>

"Roman Suzi" <rnd at onego.ru> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1055178919.28798.python-list at python.org...
> On 9 Jun 2003, Kevin Smith wrote:
>
> >This is the first draft of a PEP describing new syntax for applying
> >function modifiers (e.g. classmethod, staticmethod, etc).  There is
> >currently no implementation of the proposed syntax (I have heard rumors
> >that the 'def foo(self) [...]' syntax has a patch somewhere, but I
> >haven't seen it yet).  I have already received a few comments and will
> >revise the document soon.  The latest version will always be available
> >at http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0318.html.
> >
> >
> >        def classmethod foo(self):
> >            perform method operation
>
> oh no... I hope Python will not be another Java. I think current
>

The proposed syntax was (though its not easy to comprehend from the PEP)

def foo(spam) as classmethod:
    .....

Ciao Ulrich





From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jun  4 13:19:00 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:19:00 +0200
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
In-Reply-To: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3EDE2A04.70305@ghaering.de>

Aur?lien G?ron wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm new here, so maybe this is a debate that has been going on already. 

This was certainly discussed in the past.

> If that's the case, please ignore this post...

Negative. [1]

> ** Why isn't Python shipped with wxPython instead of Tk ? **

(1) Historical reasons. Tkinter was there earlier.

(2) Cross-platform reasons. Tkinter runs on more platforms than wxPython 
does.

> [Aur?lien likes wxPython]
> Any comments on this ? Anyone else want to vote ?

I vote for the status quo.

-- Gerhard

[1] I play too much UT2003 recently.





From eaganj at bazza.com  Wed Jun  4 16:19:38 2003
From: eaganj at bazza.com (James Eagan)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:19:38 +0100
Subject: fullscreen in Tkinter on Mac [OS X]
Message-ID: <20030604201938.GB19500@bazza.com>

Hi,

please forgive me if this is the wrong place for this.  I'm trying to make a
fullscreen toplevel window in Tkinter on Mac OS X (for the fullscreen mode of
a slideshow-like tool).  The archives suggest just using
root.geometry("wxh+0+0") (where wxh is the dims of the screen), but, at least
on my Mac OS X machine, that gives me a fullscreen window under the titlebar
and dock.

Any suggestions for how to make a fullscreen window that covers up everything
else (specifically, menubar, dock)?

Small sample code follows:

import Tkinter as Tk

root = Tk.Tk()
root.overrideredirect(True)
label = Tk.Label(root, text='lalala', foreground='red', background='black')
label.pack(expand=True, fill='both', anchor='center')
root.geometry('%sx%s+%s+%s' % (root.winfo_screenwidth(),
                               root.winfo_screenheight(),
                               0, 0))
root.lift()

Tk.mainloop()




From hc_74 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 16 10:00:08 2003
From: hc_74 at yahoo.com (Eugene C.)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:00:08 GMT
Subject: ASP 3.0
Message-ID: <I3kHa.145770$h42.121268@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Hello everyone.

My question is in regard to ASP's Server.Transfer method. Basically,
whenever I use this method, ASP does correctly execute the destination page
but does not actually transfer control to the page. For some reason control
is passed back to the original page. I've tested this by including
additional html code fragments on lines below the call to Server.Transfer.
These lines show up on the browser when they shouldn't have.

Anyone experience these "errors" before? Thanks much.





From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jun  3 12:01:16 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:01:16 -0500
Subject: pychecker checks files by executing them ??
In-Reply-To: <20030603114808.C1163@localhost.localdomain>
References: <3EDCB6BF.1090909@molgen.mpg.de>
        <16092.48135.131983.708842@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <20030603114808.C1163@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <16092.50764.140587.97167@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> As a pleasant side effect of this slight restructuring, your program might
    >> run faster.  Why that's so is left as an exercise for the reader. :-)

    Jack> Ack-Thpt! IMO python's biggest wart is that locals are faster than
    Jack> globals.  

So submit a patch or complete one of the two or three speedup-globals PEPs
which have been tried and dropped for one reason or another in the past.

Skip




From mcherm at mcherm.com  Mon Jun  9 09:40:03 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Mon,  9 Jun 2003 06:40:03 -0700
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
Message-ID: <1055166003.3ee48e33abbe9@mcherm.com>

Ed Avis writes:
  [... discussion of the statement/expression divide in Python ...]
> I don't know about perfect - 'print' seems rather an anomaly, and
> assignment to list and dictionary elements is beginning to look like a
> strange special case - but I agree that most of the time it works
> fairly well.

For what it's worth, I agree. sys.out.write() should be used instead
of the print statement... the only argument for having a separate
statement is convenience in writing tiny scripts. Of course, that's
a useful thing, but it in no way justifies wierd things like the
soft space, the addition of newlines based on a trailing comma, or
the ugly ">>".

And assignment to list and dictionary elements is, indeed, a wierd
case. It makes sense as a statement, but ALSO having a mutation
method makes sense. The fact that some mutable containers lack 
sensible mutation methods (eg, dict.set()) feels to me more like
an annoying oversight than a useful distinction.

> Lambda is the only real area where it starts to produce
> 'surprising' results, and that only because lambda is synactically
> restricted to contain only expressions.

But I like lambdas as they are, and it seems natural to me. Hmm... 
guess everyone comes along with slightly different expectations.

-- Michael Chermside





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jun 15 19:02:01 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:02:01 +0200
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <m1tpevcasprfdirat1h3mg1go5atq4vsst@4ax.com>
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <m1tpevcasprfdirat1h3mg1go5atq4vsst@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3eecfae8$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Tim Rowe wrote:
> That's one of the reasons I would not advocate Python for mission
> critical systems.  But then, neither would I advocate C++ or FORTRAN,
> for a whole host of reasons.  The mission critical systems I work with
> have the possibility of killing a few hundred people whenever they go
> wrong, and the whole system development process, including choice of
> language for software elements is quite specialised.

offtopic: what language *do* you use for those?


--Irmen




From frank at chagford.com  Thu Jun 12 11:39:57 2003
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 08:39:57 -0700
Subject: MSW crash with <refcnt 0 at ...>
Message-ID: <246a4e07.0306120739.74dd977a@posting.google.com>

Hi all

I have an obscure problem with the following piece of code (distilled
from a larger application) -

######################################################

#! /usr/bin/python
import sys

class glob:
    errmsg = 'ok'

if sys.platform == 'win32':
    import odbc
    glob.db = odbc.odbc('frank/Adminstrator')
else:
    import pgdb
    glob.db = pgdb.connect(database='frank')

def update():
    cur = glob.db.cursor()
    try:
        cur.execute("insert into fmtest values ('E001','EFG
Ltd','Eric','1234567')")
        glob.errmsg = ['success']
    except:
        glob.errmsg = ['fail']
        return
    glob.db.commit()

print glob.errmsg
update()
print glob.errmsg

######################################################

Class glob only contains class attributes, and is used to pass globals
around various modules. It has no methods and is never instantiated.

My application works with two databases - PostgreSQL on Redhat 8 using
pgdb, and SQLServer 2000 on Windows 2000 using odbc from Pythonwin.
Python version is 2.2.2 in both cases.

The update routine tries to insert a record into the database. If it
fails because the record already exists, MSW pops up a box with the
message "Python.exe has generated errors and will be closed by
Windows", and the dos box displays the message "<refcnt 0 at ....>".

The error does *not* occur in the following cases -
Under Linux the error never occurs
If the insert succeeds - no error
If the error message is a string or a tuple instead of a list - no
error
If the update routine is part of the main line instead of a function -
no error
The error only occurs when glob.errmsg is accessed. If the last line
is removed - no error

Can anyone explain what is going on? Thanks in advance.

Frank Millman



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jun  9 15:58:13 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 12:58:13 -0700
Subject: Hardware take on software testing.
References: <2ae25c6b.0306060450.78e988f9@posting.google.com> <3EE0CF2B.57F474E4@engcorp.com> <2ae25c6b.0306061721.148300a@posting.google.com> <3EE14F0A.3D1E1887@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306091158.701ed82a@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3EE14F0A.3D1E1887 at engcorp.com>...
> Bob Martin wrote "The act of writing a unit test is more an act of 
> design than of verification.  It is also more an act of documentation 
> than of verification.  The act of writing a unit test closes a remarkable 
> number of feedback loops, the least of which is the one pertaining to 
> verification of function."

Good points. See also a recent thread where I also advocate the merging of
documentation+testing.

> Let me go back to the "graph the number of bugs" thing you mention above.
> If you are working in a world where that concept holds much meaning, 
> you might have to change gears to picture this: with XP and TDD, you
> generally expect to have *no* bugs to graph.  Think about that for a
> moment.  You write a test.  You write a bit of code, and get the test
> to pass.  You write another test.  You write some code, only enough
> to pass the test, and run both tests.  If the code broke something in
> the first test, you immediately go and fix what you did wrong.

> Now fast-forward to months later, when you have literally hundreds of
> little tests, each one having driven the development of a few lines of
> code.  You have effectively 100% code coverage.  In fact, you probably
> have tests which overlap, but that's a good thing here.  Now you make
> a tiny mistake, which traditionally would not be noticed until "test 
> time", way down at the end of the project when the QA/verification people 
> get their hands on your code.  Instead of being noticed, perhaps, 
> months later just before shipping, you immediately fail one or two
> tests (or a whole pile) and fix the problem.

> Or, in spite of the fact that you actually *drove the development of
> the code with the tests*, and that therefore there is really no code
> that doesn't need to be there to pass the tests, you manage to let
> a bug get through.  Maybe it was more of an error in interpretation
> of the functional requirements.  In other words, almost certainly one
> of your tests is actually wrong.  Alternatively, the tests are all fine
> but you're in the unfortunate (but fortunately rare when you do it this
> way) position of having an actual, real _bug_ in spite of all those tests.

> What do you do?  Add it to the bug database and see the graph go up?
> No, you don't even *have* a bug database!  There are no bugs to go in it,
> except this one.  What's the best next step?  Write a test!

> The new test fails in the presence of the bug, and now you modify the
> code to pass the test (and to keep passing all those other tests) and
> check in the change.  Problem solved.  No bug, no bug database, no graph.

> Maybe this sounds goofy or unrealistic to some who haven't tried it.
> Personally I thought it was novel enough to warrant an experiment when
> I first encountered it, but it didn't take long before I was convinced
> that this approach was fundamentally different and more powerful than
> the previous approaches I'd tried over twenty plus years of coding.
> It may not feel right to some people, but since it's pretty darn easy
> to read up on the approach and experiment for a few hours or days to
> get a feel for it, "don't knock it if you haven't tried it".  :-)

> To answer the original question of "how do you know when you're done?"
> I would say that TDD itself doesn't really say, but in XP you have
> what are called "acceptance tests", which are similar to the unit tests
> in that they are a fully automated suite of tests that verify the 
> high level functionality of the entire program.  When your code
> passes all the units tests you have written to drive it's development,
> *and* all the acceptance tests, then you're done.  (That's another one
> of the "things of beauty" in XP: the tests aggressively control scope
> since you don't have to build anything for which you don't have a test.)

-Peter

Dear Peter,

I like the fact that you are so enthusiastic about TDD and eventually, having
read tons of your posts on TDD, I tried it. It was a worthwhile experience
and I must say it worked better then I expected. I am also convinced that  
TDD is the most effective technique we have at our disposal today (together 
with pair programming). No doubt also about the relevance of test in 
refactoring code, they really shine in this arena.

Nevertheless, I think you are a little bit too enthusiastic. 
I am referring to statements like "with XP and TDD, you generally 
expect to have *no* bugs" and "you have effectively 100% code coverage".

My concern is that it is effectively *impossible* to write a comprehensive
sets of tests. You cannot imagine and tests all the possible usages of
a piece of code you write, unless it is trivial. You cannot imagine and
tests all the possible abuse your future user could perform. You cannot
never be 100% sure of the correctness of your programs in all situations.

If it was so, Python (which is developed using LOTS of tests) would be
bug free. This is not the case, because of the subtle bugs you cannot prevent 
at writing time and that are discovered after months or years of usage. Unit 
testing is extremely effective againsts simple bugs (similarly to the compiler 
step in a compiled language, but much more effective), but it is powerless
(actually in some case it helps, but I am considering the really hard bugs
here) to prevent subtle bugs, exactly because they are subtle, i.e. you
haven't thought of a test able to discover them when you first wrote the
program. Of course, once the subtle bug has been discovered (maybe by your
users), tests helps a LOT in tracking it and fixing it.

Let me take a concrete example, i.e. my recipe to solve the metaclass
conflict I posted recently. Here the script is less than 20 line long.
However, I cannot simply write a comprehensive test suite, since there
are TONS of possibilities and it is extremely difficult for me to imagine
all the use cases. I can write a big test suite of hundreds of lines,
but still cannot be completely sure. I cannot spend weeks in writing the
test suite for 20 lines of code!

In general, the problem with test is that they are as effective as the 
time you spend in writing them. Since, because of constraint of money, 
deadlines and other real life issues, you cannot really write down a 
comprehensive test suite, you cannot say "with XP and TDD, you generally 
expect to have *no* bugs" and "you have effectively 100% code coverage".
These are really exaggerations in my view. But maybe it is good to
exaggerate a bit if this serves to convert more and more people ;)


                                                         Michele



From Henk  Wed Jun 18 03:46:38 2003
From: Henk (Henk)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:46:38 GMT
Subject: reinventing the web server
References: <mailman.1055899117.6818.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ef018a2.1124505921@news.skynet.be>

Hi,

you might have a look at www.cherrypy.com

Henk

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:14:05 +0800, "Simon Wittber (Maptek)"
<Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au> wrote:

>Hello Python People.
>
>I am very interested in using Python as a web development tool. I have
>investigated mod_python. It was rather difficult to setup, and seemed
>rather clunky.
>
>I then checked out twisted web, which seemed to work quite well. However
>the rpy files left me cold. All I want is access to the session, form
>and querystrings and some server variables. I don't want all the twisted
>Resource() weirdness. Also, twisted seems to be a bit of a resource hog.
>A simple request was chewing up 10% of my poor Indy's CPU :(
>
>Is it worthwhile reinventing my own Python web server, the way I want
>it? Or is it a waste of time... and should I be sticking to existing
>technologies?
>
>Sw.
>




From rimbalaya at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 30 23:31:47 2003
From: rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 20:31:47 -0700
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
Message-ID: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I have been thinking about how to overload the assign operation '='.
In many cases, I wanted to provide users of my packages a natural
interface to the extended built-in types I created for them, but the
assign operator is always forcing them to "type cast" or coerce the
result when they do a simple assign for the purpose of setting the
value of a variable. Borrowing an example from this newgroup, the
second assignment below ereases all Currency knowledge from variable
'c', when the user only wanted to update the value of c, not its type:

c=Currency(5)
c=7

I fully understand the workaround of doing c=Curreny(7) instead, but
users don't want to be bothered with that.

I read some of the prior discussions, but I did not see a suggestion
for permanent a solution. I would like to propose the following.

The idea is to separate the value assignment from the type assignment,
by introducing a new operator, let's say the ':=' operator.

'=' remains what it is, assigns type and value at the same time
':=' assigns only the value

For example:

>>> class myint(int): pass
...
>>> a = myint()
>>> a := 6
type(a)
<class '__main__.myint'>
>>> a
6

In reality, := would just coerce the return type of the RHS of := to
the type of the variable on the LHS of the :=, preserving the value(s)
as best as it can.

If the type of the variable was still undefined, ':=' would behave
like '='. It might create confusion in future code, but does not break
old code.

I think it would be a nice feature to have. Comments?

Thanks,
- Rim



From http  Sat Jun 21 14:11:46 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 11:11:46 -0700
Subject: embedded db in python app?
References: <qRVIa.34337$Fr5.730650@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <7xvfuzmhb1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Alessio Pace <puccio_13 at yahoo.it> writes:
> Hi, I wrote a python application which needs to persistently store 2 *big*
> hash maps at the end of its execution and retrieve them when it starts
> again. Up to now I just used pickle to serialize 2 objects that
> "encapsulate" those hash maps (and nothing else). I wonder if using an
> embedded db (but which one??) to store those two hash maps would be faster
> both in storing and in retrieval. 

What's wrong with using one of the built-in dbm classes?



From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Sun Jun 15 21:27:31 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:27:31 +1000
Subject: Twisted - listenTCP and connectTCP on the same reactor?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.06.15.16.24.08.598317@comcast.net>
References: <pan.2003.06.15.00.01.18.957592@comcast.net> <mailman.1055642485.26565.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.06.15.16.24.08.598317@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20030616012731.GA25277@frobozz>

On Sun, Jun 15, 2003 at 12:24:08PM -0400, Ed Young wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:00:17 +1000, Andrew Bennetts wrote:
> 
> > [While some Twisted developers do read comp.lang.python, you're usually
> > better off trying the twisted-python at twistedmatrix.com mailing list]
> > 
> Problem solved, code is working, thanks for your help.
> I would post to the mailing list, but it is not searchable
> by Google (to the best of my knowledge).  It's likely that
> other folks will have the same problems I have.

The archives are found at
http://twistedmatrix.com/pipermail/twisted-python/, and Google definitely
does index it, e.g. look at these search results:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Atwistedmatrix.com+%22twisted-python%22+listenTCP+connectTCP

-Andrew.





From belred1 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  4 00:09:33 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 04:09:33 GMT
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com> <PNdDa.824522$OV.780836@rwcrnsc54> <bbjpt9$p0q$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1ieDa.35049$DV.60225@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

> staticmethod is not a replacement function object, it *returns* a
> replacement function object for myMethod.  That is, the object bound to
> myMethod (*not* "myMethod()") is passed to staticmethod, and staticmethod
> returns an object that is re-bound to myMethod.  You are correct that
> staticmethod is not a keyword, any more than "str", "list", "len", or
> "myMethod" are keywords -- that is in fact the whole point of this
> proposal, because it requires no new keywords and a minimal change to
> the Python parser.
>

ok, i understand what you mean now.  but, in a way, it seems that we are
playing symantec games here. from a programmers prespective, it looks and
feels like a keyword.

style 1:
def myMethod(args) [staticmethod]:
    blah, blah, blah

style 2:
def staticmethod myMethod(args):
    blah, blah, blah


these two "styles" appear to be the same, except the second one seems to be
more natural and simpler and obvious to me. the first one looks like "the
function is becoming an array or indexed or something... not sure exactly
what those [] mean... better look it up in that nutshell book....".   sorry,
but i have to vote -1 on style one, +1 on style 2, +0 keeping it the way it
is.

bryan






From maoy at cis.upenn.edu  Sat Jun 21 22:23:43 2003
From: maoy at cis.upenn.edu (Yun Mao)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:23:43 -0400
Subject: Executable pyhton script
References: <mailman.1056239797.7162.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bd33vl$277i$1@netnews.upenn.edu>

What's your OS?

"sevri oh sevri" <ree_svr at energi.fisika.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1056239797.7162.python-list at python.org...
> Dear all,
>
> I'm a newbie in python programming.
> I want my python script being executable.
> How do i make it ?
>
> Regards,
> Sevri.
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> referensi fisika utama - http://www.fisika.net
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you at yourchoice.com, No
Ads, 6MB, IMAP, POP, SMTP & more!
http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag
>





From mmower at novissio.com  Sat Jun 28 12:30:36 2003
From: mmower at novissio.com (Matt Mower)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:30:36 +0100
Subject: Have I broken my installation?
References: <b8crfvcsd8pit555p24rrc19f05a9578pb@4ax.com> <m3d6gyjizz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <2verfvseu4k82h66g3l2co8mhnc2pe334p@4ax.com>

Hi Martin,

Thanks for responding.  My answers are below.

On 28 Jun 2003 17:53:52 +0200, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis)
wrote:

>> I'm pretty sure I had a module dom.minidom before as it is the import
>> statement that is raising the exception and it didn't prior to
>> installing PyXML, I was previously calling parse() and Document().
>> 
>> So did I make a mistake installing PyXML? 
>
>This is uncertain. Does this also happen when you invoke Python from
>the command line? If so, what happens if you do
>
>import xml
>print xml
>import xml.dom
>print xml.dom
>import xml.dom.minidom
>print xml.dom.minidom
>

It turns out I made a bad choice naming my test program 'xml.py'.  I
discovered that these commands failed in the directory I was working
on the script in, but succeeded elsewhere.

I guess I didn't realise that my local files could interfere with
importing from Pythons libraries.  Stupid mistake on my part!

Thanks again!

Matt

---
Systems Engineer, Hipbone(EMEA) Ltd.
3000 Hillswood drive, Chertsey, Surrey, KT16 0RS
Tel: 44-1932-895902  Mob: 44-7980-237-380



From dirk at gerrits.homeip.net  Tue Jun 17 10:22:16 2003
From: dirk at gerrits.homeip.net (Dirk Gerrits)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:22:16 +0200
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
In-Reply-To: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com>
References: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bcn86i$m4u$1@main.gmane.org>

... you are forced to use a variety of programming languages at school 
in a variety of projects, and for each and everyone of them you explain 
to your friends how much easier it would have been to solve this in 
Python instead of the language we were supposed to use.

(Guilty as charged. ;))

Dirk Gerrits






From bostjan.jerko at mf.uni-lj.si  Tue Jun 10 06:09:53 2003
From: bostjan.jerko at mf.uni-lj.si (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Bo=B9tjan?= Jerko)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:09:53 +0200
Subject: cut off \n
References: <mailman.1055175262.10162.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030610120953.6cba2d02.bostjan.jerko@mf.uni-lj.si>

What i do is:

line.replace("\n","")

B.

On Mon, 9 Jun 2003 10:53:47 -0500
sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:

> > From: Tom [mailto:llafba at gmx.net]
> > Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 10:51 AM
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I have to read data from a file to a list. Unfortunately most of the
> > 
> > data that I read into my little list ends with a linefeed \n.
> > Right now I get rid of this by just cutting off the last 
> > character. (a = > l[:-1]).
> >
> 
> This is *almost* the correct way to do it :-)
> 
> >
> > My problem is that sometimes the last line of the file has a \n and 
> > sometimes not. With the method above I sometimes cut off parts of my
> > 
> > string. So it would be much nicer if I can find out if the data does
> > 
> > have a \n and then cut it off.
> >
> 
> You could do somethint like:
> 
>     if line.endswith("\n"):
>         line = line[:-1]
> 
> or, if trailing whitespace is not significant (you don't mention it),
> you can also do something like:
> 
>     line = line.rstrip()
> 
> or, if leading whitespace is not significant either, you can also
> trim all leading and trailing whitespace, thusly:
> 
>     line = line.strip()
> 
> 
> > 
> > This is probably a very common problem but I am pretty new to
> > Phython and could find anything useful with google. :-(
> > 
> > Thanks, Tom
> >
> 
> Perl has yet-another-kinda-useful-function called "chomp", which
> deletes a line ending from a string, only if it's found.  Alas,
> python is chompless, not that I'm complaining, the above code
> is what I use all the time.
> 
> -gca
> 
> --
> Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
> restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
> persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion
> de este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay
> problemas en la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente.
> Gracias.
> 



From MFranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Tue Jun 10 10:11:15 2003
From: MFranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:11:15 +0100
Subject: Changing properties of a class instance widget
In-Reply-To: <bc4jn9$qek$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
References: <bc4jn9$qek$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3EE5E703.4040204@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

Mark Light wrote:
> Hi,
>      I have a class (after some help from this newsgoup) that generates an
> array of buttons that I can select and deselect via left clicks etc(done
> using bind). What I would like to be able to do is to have a button that
> when clicked will select all in a particular coulmn of buttons. So I need to
> be able to referebce the separate instances.
> 
> A few snippets of the code!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> #Class to generate sample buttons - including sample list population and
> data entry
> #CCC>
> class MyButton(Button):
>    ##<
>    def __init__(self, parent, buttonNb, **options):
>      self.__buttonNb = buttonNb
>      apply(Button.__init__, (self, parent), options)
>      self.configure( width=10)
>      self.bind('<Button-1>', self.onLeftClick)
>      self.bind('<Button-2>', self.onMiddleClick)
>      self.bind('<Button-3>', self.onRightClick)
>      self.bind('<Double-1>', self.onDoubleClick)
>    ##>
> 
>    #Define middleclick
>    ##<
>    def onMiddleClick(self, event):
>      self.config(None, bg=('green'), relief=SUNKEN)
>      print "MiddleClick on Sample" + `self.__buttonNb`
>    ##>
> 
> 
> #generate buttons from a list (called Layout - e.g. [(frame3b2, 1),
> (frame3b2, 2),....])
> for frame, sample in Layout:
>      b = MyButton(frame, sample, text="Sample %s" % sample)
>      b.pack(side=LEFT)
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> How can I refer to a particular instance of MyButton to change it's widget
> properties.
> 
> 
> Many Thanks,
> 
> Mark.
> 

Hi Mark,


there are several ways to do this.  Perhaps the simplest is to store the 
button
instances in a python list as you create them.:-

myButtonInstanceList = []

for frame, sample in Layout:
     b = MyButton(frame, sample, text="Sample %s" % sample)
     b.pack(side=LEFT)
     myButtonInstanceList.append(b)



Then later you can do somthing like:-

thisButton = myButtonInstanceList[10]
thisButton.config(text="STOP!!!!")



HTH
Martin


















From hst at empolis.co.uk  Thu Jun 12 12:40:17 2003
From: hst at empolis.co.uk (Harvey Thomas)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:40:17 +0100
Subject: Python Regex Newbie- matching substrings
Message-ID: <8FC4E7C302A6A64AAD5DB1FA0E825DEB53BD91@hendrix.empolisuk.com>

Daniel wrote
> Hi,
> 
> I would like my regex to detect that a month (any month) is in the
> following line, returning the index of the start of the match:
> 
> Jun 05 14:40:26 2003 .....
> 
> 
> So far, I've tried:
> 
>   months       = re.compile('(Jan)')
>   searchResult = months.search('abcJan')
>   print searchResult.start()
> 
> 
> -Which works for just 'Jan' of course, and it correctly prints '3'. 
> 
> 
> How do I get it to work for all months? 
> 
<snip>
.
</snip>

use

months = re.compile('Jan|Feb|Mar|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Sep|Oct|Nov|Dec')
searchResult = months.search('abcJan')
print searchResult.start()
 

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service.




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jun 17 16:37:42 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 20:37:42 GMT
Subject: string.find does not work in file
References: <oprqwl86l2sbtoux@news>
Message-ID: <bcnu6m$vcl$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:06:32 +0200, =?iso-8859-15?Q?Wolfram_Strau=DF?= <str at iis.fhg.de> wrote:

>Hi,
>I have a problem to run the following lines in a file.
>>
>import string
>f = open('in.txt')
>for l in f.readlines():
>	print string.find(l, '"\n')
The above means if a line does not end with '"\n' print -1 and if
it does end with " print the decimal number that is the count of
characters preceding the '"\n'. Is that what you intended?

To see what the lines really are at that point, why don't you
just add another print statement (indented the same as the one you have) e.g.,
        print repr(l)

If you learn to talk to your interpreter, it will tell you what you need to know
to figure things out ;-)

><
>
>In my python shell (version 2.2.2) on a W2000 system the code finds all 
>lines with the pattern. But running the same code as a python scipt in a 
>shell it does not find any pattern.
>
>If you have any idea, please let me know. Thanks Wolfram
Post actual logs and file snippets, not retyped stuff from memory.
Copy and paste right from the interactive interpreter console window.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Jun 30 12:10:54 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:10:54 -0400
Subject: Idiomatic way of repeating items in a sequence.
In-Reply-To: <m21xxby2ug.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <f58803d.0306300326.705bad44@posting.google.com> <m21xxby2ug.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <3F00610E.9030603@rogers.com>

John Hunter wrote:

>This doesn't look too bad to me, but perhaps list comprehensions are
>clearer?
>
>  seq = ['a', 'b', 'c']
>  print [x for x in seq for x in seq]
>
 >>> def repeat3( sequence, count=1 ):
...     return [x for x in sequence for i in range(count) ]
...
 >>> repeat3( [2,3,4], 3 )
[2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4]

I *think* is what you were suggesting, and is indeed very clear.  For 
those into generators, this is fun (but has no huge advantage if you 
wind up using repeat instead of irepeat, or if you're using small 
sequences):

 >>> from __future__ import generators
 >>> def irepeat( sequence, count=1 ):
...     countSet = range(count)
...     for item in sequence:
...         for i in countSet:
...             yield item
...
 >>> def repeat( sequence, count = 1 ):
...     return list(irepeat(sequence, count))
...
 >>> repeat( [2,3,4], 3 )
[2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4]

Enjoy,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From tireseas at onetel.com  Fri Jun 20 18:20:18 2003
From: tireseas at onetel.com (Andy)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 23:20:18 +0100
Subject: Tricks with timers
In-Reply-To: <20030620220101.19370.47979.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20030620220101.19370.47979.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <200306202320.18540.tireseas@onetel.com>

On Friday 20 Jun 2003 23:01, Jp Calderone wrote:

>   Subsequent calls to signal.alarm() will override whatever the current
> alarm timer is.
>
>   Jp


Thanks Jp :)

====================
||  Reg. Linux User: 313143 ||
====================
Sign the Petition:
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/endtcpa1/




From p-abel at t-online.de  Mon Jun 23 17:08:39 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 14:08:39 -0700
Subject: Dynamic importing
References: <533b36b0.0306212352.7c5849cb@posting.google.com> <13a533e8.0306220640.29d8a09b@posting.google.com> <533b36b0.0306222247.2a630d07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0306231308.5e367f5@posting.google.com>

googlenews at ols.inorganic.org (Roy S. Rapoport) wrote in message news:<533b36b0.0306222247.2a630d07 at posting.google.com>...
Ok it took me a while, and I'm not quite sure, but I think I got it:
...
...
...

> However, lets look at the package approach:
> onec.py and twoc.py remain the same.  master.py looks slightly
> different:
> class master:
>         def dosomething(self, what):
>                 
>                 x = __import__("demo."+what)

When what='onec' then after the above statement x will become the **demo** 
- package with the possibility to access demo.onec.

>                 y = eval("x.%s()" % what)

So the above eval-statement tries to call demo.onec(), which results in
your error below.
Instead of this you should try:
 **y = eval("x.%s.%s()" % (what,what) )**

>                 eval("y.dosomething()")

BTW at my opinion there's no need for the eval-statement.
 **y.dosomething()**  works too.

> 
> 
> (so the only difference is in that import statement).
> 
> Running the test code:
> import demo.master
> F = demo.master.master()
> F.dosomething('one')
> 
> Gets me 
> ---
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./f2", line 6, in ?
>     F.dosomething('one')
>   File "./demo/master.py", line 5, in dosomething
>     y = eval("x.%s()" % what)
>   File "<string>", line 0, in ?
> TypeError: 'module' object is not callable
> ---
> 
> So there's some intricacy in dealing with packages I'm not getting;
> unfortunately, the only place I've seen packages documented is the
> tutorial which is, understandably, a little sparse.
> 
> -roy

I added some prints in your master-class to clearify a little bit
the situation.
class master:
  def dosomething(self, what):
    x = __import__("demo."+what)
    print "="*30
    print "x         : %s"%x
    print "x.__name__: %s"%x.__name__
    print "dir(x)    :"
    print "\n".join(dir(x))
    mod="x.%s.%s()" % (what,what)
    print "mod       : %s"%mod
    y = eval(mod)
    y.dosomething()
    print "="*30
    print

Gives me the following:
==============================
x         : <module 'demo' from 'C:\Dokumen ...[snip]
x.__name__: demo
dir(x)    :
__all__
__builtins__
__doc__
__file__
__name__
__path__
master
onec
mod       : x.onec.onec()
class one called to do something
==============================

==============================
x         : <module 'demo' from 'C:\Dokumen ...[snip]
x.__name__: demo
dir(x)    :
__all__
__builtins__
__doc__
__file__
__name__
__path__
master
onec
twoc
mod       : x.twoc.twoc()
class two called to do something
==============================

Reading http://www.python.org/doc/essays/packages.html could
help a bit.

Regards
Peter



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Jun  4 21:11:30 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (Francois Pinard)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 21:11:30 -0400
Subject: Python proper on Linux, `.a' vs `.so'
Message-ID: <oqk7c1qqf1.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

Hi to all Python lovers.

Today, I wanted to use some functionality already written as a Python into
a few C main programs.  The size of each generated executable is over 800K,
and I suspect that most of it comes from the fact it is linked with:

   /usr/lib/python2.2/config/libpython2.2.a

I wonder if there is any deep reason why this could not have been
installed as a `.so' library right from the Python installation itself.
Is there any counter-indication at having done so?  If yes, I'm a bit
curious about what these difficulties might be.  If not, is there any
simple stunt I could do for creating a usable `.so' library?

Since the original C programs executables are not so big, less than 100K
each (relying on installed shared libraries -- of course), I feel that
the idea of using Python modules from within C applications would "sell"
better if it was not blatantly bloating the size of executable files.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From bdeck at lycos.co.uk  Thu Jun  5 06:16:43 2003
From: bdeck at lycos.co.uk (deckerben)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:16:43 +0200
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
References: <3ede49fa$0$16629$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>, <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <mailman.1054729274.8347.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1054757182.17260.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3edf1845$0$31874$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

"Moshe Zadka" <m at moshez.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.1054757182.17260.python-list at python.org...
> On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, "deckerben" <bdeck at lycos.co.uk> wrote:
> > Does TWISTED require any DOS-killers like os.fork() or os.popen2() ??
>
> No.

OK. This point was critical.

We will take a closer look at TWISTED and see if we can get it running on
the LAN... It may end up on http://members.lycos.co.uk/bdeck with all the
other PythonD stuff.


Thanks,
Ben





From claird at lairds.com  Mon Jun 23 22:46:08 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 02:46:08 -0000
Subject: Python and Jython
References: <WJOJa.386$Gf3.1688@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <vfferg4uvofdf0@corp.supernews.com>

In article <WJOJa.386$Gf3.1688 at tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,
Mulugeta Maru <mmaru at attcanada.ca> wrote:
>My background is Java. I would like to know the difference between Python
>and Jython. Are they different languages? Should I learn Python first and
>then Jython? The reason I would like to learn the language is to use it with
>Java.
>
>I just spend one hour on a Python tutorial - the language is just a thing of
>beauty!
>
>

Does <URL: http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=7822/ur0303f/ > help?

A reasonable case can be made for learning either Python or Jython first,
depending on your circumstances.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From jhsieh at jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Jun  4 18:02:41 2003
From: jhsieh at jpl.nasa.gov (jhsieh)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:02:41 -0700
Subject: tuple unpacking
Message-ID: <3EDE6C81.7080804@jpl.nasa.gov>

hi,
i'm trying to return a tuple of values from a class method, and here is 
the error i get:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./Sequencer.py", line 240, in ?
>     TheSequencerGUI = Sequencer(TheNameService, TheRootWindow)
>   File "./Sequencer.py", line 58, in __init__
>     FDLControl, self.CatalogSubsystem)
>   File "./Sequencer.py", line 188, in InitSubsystem
>     self.Config, *Config)
>   File "./FDLControl.py", line 23, in __init__
>     self.TextDisplay)
>   File "./SubsystemControl.py", line 25, in __init__
>     self.Controls, self.Buttons = self.InitGUI(self)
> TypeError: unpack non-sequence

The code is:
...
self.Controls, self.Buttons = self.InitGUI(self)
...

def InitGUI(self, TheFrame):
...
	TheControls = Pmw.Group(self, tag_text=self.SubsystemName,\
         	                ring_borderwidth=4)
	TheButtons = Pmw.ButtonBox(TheControls.interior())
	TheButtons.add("On", command=self.On)
	TheButtons.add("Halt", command=self.Halt)
	TheButtons.add("ReInit", command=self.ReInit)
	TheButtons.add("Off", command=self.Off)
	TheButtons.pack(fill=X)
	TheControls.pack(fill=X)

	return TheControls, TheButtons

Thanks in advance!!

~Jon




From m at moshez.org  Mon Jun  2 11:00:05 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 15:00:05 -0000
Subject: A Python application server?
In-Reply-To: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20030602150005.16203.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, "Duncan Smith" <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> Having looked at PYRO, Twisted and WebWare I'm pretty confident that most of
> the technology is in place.  But I have been told that to emulate the
> existing system there would have to be a Python equivalent of an 'untrusted
> Java applet'.  (I'm not convinced this is actually necessary for the given
> app., but the existing system does use RMI and Java applets.)

You can continue using Java applets, just changing the protocol from RMI
to some language-agnostic standard. Or...

> "Java is the only mainstream technology that adds the required level of
> safety for code travelling around a network, and the flexibility to invent
> our own controls, regardless of the operating system being used."

Flash is probably as good as Java. Both share the same problem: users
dislike them. A browser is a browser, not (as netscape would have you
believe) a platform for programs.

> As the system is web-based I also want to address the security aspects
> (protecting the server

The server must not trust the client. Ever. For anything.
If what the remote Java application does it stuff like measure time
or stop cheating, then the design is WRONG WRONG WRONG and exploitable.

>, foiling eavesdroppers

That's easy, use SSL.

> protecting the client).

Use real web technology, not Java. Send the browser HTML forms. Keep
time on the server.
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Jun 15 04:12:35 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:12:35 GMT
Subject: raw strings under windows
References: <DgwGa.47757$Io.4419696@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <TTVGa.91760$pR3.1949046@news1.tin.it>

<posted & mailed>

Cecil H. Whitley wrote:

> Hi,
> When doing the following:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> path = r"c:\python23\"
> 
> I get a syntax error, unexpected EOL with singlequoted string.  It was my
> (mis?) understanding that raw strings did not process escaped characters?

They don't, in that the backslash remains in the string resulting from
the raw literal, BUT so does the character right after the backslash,
unconditionally.  As a result, a raw string literal cannot end with an
odd number of backslashes.  If they did otherwise, it would instead be
impossible to include a single quote character in a single-quoted raw
string literal, etc.  Raw string literals are designed mainly to ease
the task of entering regular expressions, and for that purpose an odd
number of ending backslashes is never needed, while making inclusion of
quote characters harder _would_ be an issue, so the design choice was
easy to make.

Of course people who use raw string literals to represent DOS paths might
wish otherwise, but as has been pointed out it's not a big problem in
any case -- not only, as you note:

> Of course
> path = "c:\\python23\\"
> 
> works just fine.

but so, almost invariably, does 'c:/python23/' (Microsoft's C runtime
libraries accept / interchangeably with \ as part of file path syntax,
and Python relies on the C runtime libraries and so does likewise).


Alex




From 2002 at weholt.org  Fri Jun 27 15:13:11 2003
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:13:11 +0200
Subject: SOAP  client
References: <PAVKa.126576$lK4.3527903@twister1.libero.it> <yyybrwj8lpq.fsf@adams.patriot.net>
Message-ID: <MH0La.2534$os2.36409@news2.e.nsc.no>

I'm using Twisted for my Internet-needs and in most cases it works like a
charm. But when its SOAP support seem to be buggy. Anyway, you could give it
a try and see if you can figure out what's wrong. Twisted is a wonderful
thing.

Thomas


"Nick Vargish" <nav at adams.patriot.net> wrote in message
news:yyybrwj8lpq.fsf at adams.patriot.net...
> Glauco <glauco at sferacarta.com> writes:
>
> > I'm alone in  find a lot of problem in a SOAP Client ?
>
> No, I'm finding the SOAP thing pretty hard going myself, and I'm
> usually pretty good at figuring things out for myself. I have a couple
> of Perl "SOAP:Lite" scripts that I am trying to translate into Python,
> and it's been quite frustrating.
>
> > I'm going crazy because function are not documented .
> > Exist another solution for di a SOAP CLient ??
>
> There's ZSI, which has been called "more mature" by some people, but I
> can't see much of a difference in approachability. Neither seems to be
> very well documented. What I could really use are some more
> examples...
>
> Here's one of the Perl scripts I'm trying to translate:
>
>   use SOAP::Lite;
>   print SOAP::Lite
>     -> uri('urn:Temperatures')
>     -> proxy('http://clerkcap.house.gov/scripts/temper.pl')
>     -> f2c($ARGV[0])
>     -> result;
>
> It's just one call. What's the Pythonic equivalent, using either
> SOAP.py or the ZSI package?
>
> Obviously, I need a better understanding of how SOAP is supposed to
> work, but even that basic documentation is surprisingly hard to find
> on the Web.
>
> Nick
>
> --
> # sigmask.py  ||  version 0.2  ||  2003-01-07  ||  Feed this to your
Python.
> print reduce(lambda
x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAqbusjpu/ofu?','')
>
>
>





From tuffi23 at gmx.de  Mon Jun 16 13:04:30 2003
From: tuffi23 at gmx.de (Lars Schaps)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 17:04:30 GMT
Subject: Loop from 'aaaa' to 'tttt' ?
Message-ID: <slrnberu4u.khj.lschaps@x11.informatik.uni-bremen.de>

Hello.

In my program in need a loop from 'aaaa' over
'aaac', 'aaag', 'aaat', 'aaca' to 'tttt'.
(Possible characters 'a', 'c', 'g' and 't')

One idea i had is to take a number n with the base of
4 and use 

t= string.translate( '0123', 'acgt')
string.translate( n, t)

But i don't know how to convert from base10 to base4.

Has anyone a idea?

Lars



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Jun 22 18:05:53 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 00:05:53 +0200
Subject: Remove duplicate letters in a word
References: <mailman.1056307658.17506.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bd59hg$p0n$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:

>
>One more interesting method to do the same:
>
>import sets
>def nodups2(s):
>  l = map(lambda x: (s.index(x[1]),x[0]), enumerate(sets.Set(s)))
>  l.sort()
>  return "".join(map(lambda x: s[x[0]], l))
>
>print nodups2('secret')
>
>
>This implementation uses the fact that index gives the first 
>encounter of a symbol in a string.

How about:

def nodups(s):
    return ''.join([x for i,x in enumerate(s) if s.index(x)==i])

Anton





From p at ulmcnett.com  Wed Jun 18 22:19:09 2003
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:19:09 -0700
Subject: Is python good for making database work short?
In-Reply-To: <slrnbf26as.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095@posting.google.com> <slrnbf26as.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <200306181919.09195.p@ulmcnett.com>

Ben Finney writes:

> I certainly hope so; I'm soon going to embark on a very similar task
> (like countless others around the world), an automated process to move
> data from one database to another with a totally different schema.
>
> I really want to do it in Python, and my brief glimpse at Python's ODBC
> capability is encouraging.  (The source database can only be accessed by
> a proprietary ODBC layer.)
>
> I'll be very interested to see what response people give to this query.

Hmm. I've found myself thinking recently (look out! <g>) about this same 
problem. Say I'm developing an application, and I want the user to be able 
to determine the backend database, but I still need to code at least some 
of the logic for retrieving/manipulating/updating that data. IOW, what the 
table names, field names, keys, indexes etc. are is up to me, but the 
actual backend is up to the end user. 

I as the developer need to use a common dialect of SQL that will work with 
whatever backend the user chooses, whether it is Oracle, MSSQL, MySQL, 
Gadfly, or whatever. 

It would be really nice to code SQL to a standard Python-SQL format or 
something, and then to be able to plug in various modules for runtime 
conversion from the Python-SQL format into whatever format the backend ends 
up being. 

Thoughts on this?


-- 
Paul McNett




From v.wehren at home.nl  Thu Jun 19 07:11:16 2003
From: v.wehren at home.nl (vincent wehren)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:11:16 +0200
Subject: Unicode problem under IDLE on win32
References: <bcs434$11o$1@brown.net4u.hr>
Message-ID: <bcs572$n2k$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"Tomislav Strelar" <tstrelar at net4u.hr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bcs434$11o$1 at brown.net4u.hr...
> Hello!
>
> I am a bit new to Python, and I am experiencing some problem regarding
> Unicode encoding.
> The thing is that in command line everything works fine, for example:
>
> >>> u"??".encode('utf-8')
> '\xc2\x9f\xc2\x86'
>
> This is OK, but when I type the same thing in IDLE, i get:
>
> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)


This is a known problem in IDLE.

It looks like this issue has been solved or less solved in IDLEfork
(http://idlefork.sourceforge.net)

Regards,

Vincent Wehren

HTH

>
> I am using winXP. I've searced the Internet for answers, but didn't found
> any.
> Could someone please help me. ;)
> Thanx.
>
> Cheerio,
> Tomislav
>
>





From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jun  5 09:20:46 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J Lee)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:20:46 +0100
Subject: using urllib or httplib to post with ENCTYPE=mulitpart/form-data
In-Reply-To: <3EDEB3D9.3090307@bellsouth.net>
References: <mailman.1054758548.9033.python-list@python.org> <87he751jla.fsf@pobox.com>
 <3EDEB3D9.3090307@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306051409310.668-100000@alice>

On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Kevin Carlson wrote:
> John J. Lee wrote:
>
> >Erm, I'm hesitant to suggest this module, because the version that
> >does INPUT TYPE=FILE file upload -- which I'm guessing is what you
> >want to do --
> >
> Thanks for the response, John.  Sorry, I should have been more
> specific.  I don't need to upload a file in this situation.  I need to
> post to a form that is hosted by a business partner and they require the
> multipart/form-data type.

I suppose I should support this anyway (but won't get around to it for a
while, probably).


> I actually only need to send a couple of text inputs to the form, but no
> matter what, the host system acts like I input nothing into the form.  I
> have tried this:
>
>   formData = "--AaB03x\r\n"
[...]

I can't remember what it's supposed to look like...


> When I examine the data object, the HTML that I receive includes an
> error message
> that I need to include inputs for field1 and field2.
>
> Any additional ideas?

Maybe the old webunit module will do the trick?  I don't remember.

The quickest solution ATM is probably just to watch what your browser does
and copy that.  Use ethereal, for example.  If it's HTTPS, use lynx -trace
and filter out the junk, or one of the browser plugins that let you sniff
HTTPS traffic (livehttpheaders for Mozilla, http://www.simtec.ltd.uk/ for
MSIE).


John




From john_bradbury at ___cableinet.co.uk  Wed Jun  4 14:01:28 2003
From: john_bradbury at ___cableinet.co.uk (John Bradbury)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:01:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Saving Lists as BLOB
Message-ID: <bblc5n$mtp$1@sparta.btinternet.com>

    Is there any way to save a Python List (or Dictionary) as a binary field
in MySQLdb?

I have tried :
CR.execute("UPDATE STDPAGE SET content_s = %s,fldlist = %s where name =
'DATAENTRY'", (pagout,flds) )
where flds is a python list and I get an sql error.  I dont want to convert
the list to a string which would work.

Apologies if this gets posted twice, but I am having problems with my email
server.

John Bradbury





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun 26 09:52:42 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:52:42 -0400
Subject: Is it possible to write a Audio CD Player by using python only?
References: <bdespa$rku$1@news.seed.net.tw>
Message-ID: <3EFAFAAA.8D629F66@engcorp.com>

MiLF wrote:
> 
> Is it possible to write a Audio CD Player by using python only?

Do you mean using pure Python code, or do you mean using libraries
which have Python wrappers, such that any code *you* write is indeed
Python?

There are various libraries, perhaps most importantly http://pygame.org/
which allow you to access various multimedia capabilities.

You may also want to look for existing solutions, and if you need
to ask more, at least specify your platform...

-Peter



From i at mindlace.net  Fri Jun 13 12:50:50 2003
From: i at mindlace.net (emf)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:50:50 -0700
Subject: long-term release schedule?
In-Reply-To: <a8b7f07a.0306130833.37909bf9@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1054692908.26987.python-list@python.org>
 	<5654fff9.0306112203.6aa1ef99@posting.google.com>
 	<3EE874F2.4042B9E4@engcorp.com>
 	<5654fff9.0306121621.136c8568@posting.google.com>
 	<3EE93161.1DD519B@engcorp.com>
 	<5654fff9.0306130043.5e8e641a@posting.google.com>
 <a8b7f07a.0306130833.37909bf9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2147483647.1055497850@[10.0.1.2]>

--On 13 Friday, June 2003 09:33 -0700 "A. Lloyd Flanagan" 
<alloydflanagan at attbi.com> wrote:
>> > Ray Smith wrote:
>> > > The worrying aspect is that Python (or any development tool a
>> > > company uses) becomes unsupported and "no one" is around (paid
>> > > or unpaid) to continue development.
>
> A useful example here is the Ximian product Evolution.  This is a
> work-alike to Outlook (hopefully w/o the bugs) developed for Linux
> systems.
> Ximian actually went bankrupt last year, when Evolution was at about
> 1.08 (I think).

Ximian has never filed for bankruptcy as far as I am aware and can 
find. They're actually doing pretty well, as far as I know.

You may be thinking about Eazel, the company that developed the file 
browser Nautilus, which is now part of the gnome desktop (and thus part 
of Ximian's desktop product offering).

As far as the notion of Python becoming unsupported, uh... I think you 
would have to have a nuclear war.

~mindlace
http://mindlace.net




From m at moshez.org  Thu Jun  5 00:48:48 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 04:48:48 -0000
Subject: Python proper on Linux, `.a' vs `.so'
In-Reply-To: <oqk7c1qqf1.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>
References: <oqk7c1qqf1.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>
Message-ID: <20030605044848.17058.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On 04 Jun 2003, Francois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:

> Since the original C programs executables are not so big, less than 100K
> each (relying on installed shared libraries -- of course), I feel that
> the idea of using Python modules from within C applications would "sell"
> better if it was not blatantly bloating the size of executable files.

Many people have already answered on the "how", but I want to concentrate
on the "why".
If you are already taking the "Python hit", meaning an assumption that
Python is installed on your target system, would it not be easier to
write the program in Python? If it needs optimization, you can write
a *module* in C which does whatever you want to. In other words, I'm
not certain "selling" Python as a C library is missing an important point --
namely, that it is easier to write Python code than C code.  
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From h_schneider at marketmix.com  Mon Jun 23 02:20:21 2003
From: h_schneider at marketmix.com (Harald Schneider)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:20:21 +0200
Subject: py2exe and dynamic service installation ?
Message-ID: <bd6672$dhe$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

I used py2exe to create a NT service, which works flawlessly. Now the same
application needs to be installed multiple times on the same machine. For
this I need to pass _svc_name_ and _svc_display_name_ at runtime as command
line parameters after -install.

But no matter what I do, if I compile the application with py2exe it falls
back to the first assignment of _svc_name_ in the class header - it just
ignores the passed command line paramters and also any assignment to
_svc_name_ etc in the class header or the __init part ...

Is there a way to assign these varibales dynamically before the service is
created ?

All the best,
Harald





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun 18 11:07:47 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:07:47 -0400
Subject: How to permanently remove __import__?
References: <DVKHa.5891$111.3270@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3EEF8C0C.23E93E18@engcorp.com> <lhMHa.6612$111.509@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3EEF970C.4630A21@engcorp.com> <Js_Ha.125571$G_.33991@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3EF08043.F5692E2F@engcorp.com>

martin z wrote:
> 
> So, I need to disable access to the standard filesystem.  I see two options
> on how to do this: disable/override
> all of the built-in functions that access the filesystem (the imp module,
> open, etc) or somehow get rid of the
> filesystem "under the hood".

Wow, sounds neat.  Have you considered a custom Python interpreter,
or does this have to run on other people's existing installations
of Python?

If you do the custom interpreter you might be able to make fewer
changes, and be confident of much greater security, than if you
try to put all the restrictions in from a higher level.  Just a
thought...

-Peter



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun 18 17:58:10 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:58:10 -0500
Subject: Postgresql: plpython may be removed
In-Reply-To: <200306181436.21252.scott_list@mischko.com>
References: <200306181436.21252.scott_list@mischko.com>
Message-ID: <16112.57458.12166.525214@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Scott> This thread is going on the Postgresql email list.  It appears
    Scott> that support for Python as a Postgresql scripting language will
    Scott> not last unless some knowlegable folks can assist.

How so?  I use PostgreSQL from Python and have never heard of plpython.  I
use psycopg which is well-supported, albeit not by the PostgreSQL folks.
Similarly, mysql-python (aka MySQLdb) is stable and widely used to talk to
MySQL databases even though it's not supported by the MySQL folks.  I
suspect that sort of relationship is true of most packages and their Python
interfaces.

Skip




From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Jun 10 12:42:08 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:42:08 -0700
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
Message-ID: <1055263328.3ee60a602e64a@mcherm.com>

Alexander Schmolck:
>Apart from the fact that the python user community is not by any approximation
>a subset of the LaTeX community, I find the argument that 'as' is confusing
>because it is already used in import statements or SQL pretty dubious -- 

Courageous:
> As well, I. While it would be better on general principle to find a better
> word, if no such word is forthcoming this particular use of 'as' isn't at 
> all confusing to me. As you point out, 'as' is a high utility English word
> already. Users ought to be familiar with its inherit dynamicity. :)

Yeah, me too. Python, which strives to be "executable pseudocode", has many
instances where its statement syntax and keywords are chosen so as to make
the resulting code "read like english". Witness the following:

   import Foo as Bar
   from Foo import foo
   for x in iterable
   value in iterable  # okay, this one's an expression

I find that

   def name() as cached:
      ...

Easily translates mentally as "Define 'name' as being cached, and working
like this..", which is exactly what it means.

And others may feel differently, but I don't find any confusion between
"as" in the import statement and "as" with def. In both cases, it is
pretty clear that "as" isn't its own thing, it's just a helper word
explaining details of how to import or how to define a function.

-- Michael Chermside






From exarkun at intarweb.us  Mon Jun  2 06:19:48 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:19:48 -0400
Subject: Listing only directories?
In-Reply-To: <20030602101139.GB3978@frobozz>
References: <3edb2094$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <20030602101139.GB3978@frobozz>
Message-ID: <20030602101948.GA3410@meson.dyndns.org>

On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 08:11:39PM +1000, Andrew Bennetts wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 11:01:55AM +0100, Richard wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I am using os.listdir(root) to get a file and directory listing of the
> > 'root' directory. However I am trying to filter out only the directories in
> > this listing.
> > 
> > I have tried the following (after reading up in the manual):
> > 
> > def listDirectories(root):
> >     [f for f in os.listdir(root) if os.path.isdir(f)]
> >     return f
> > 
> > but this doesn't seem to do what I want it to, only seeming to return the
> > name of one of the directories it finds.
> 
> That's because you're only returning one thing <wink>
> 
> > Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong, and if I'm barking up completely
> > the wrong tree?
> 
> I think you meant:
> 
> def listDirectories(root):
>     return [f for f in os.listdir(root) if os.path.isdir(f)]

  Or rather,

    def listDirectories(root):
        d = os.path.listdir(root)
        return [f for f in d if os.path.isdir(os.path.join(root, f))]

  Or possibly

    def listDirectories(root):
        d = [os.path.join(root, f) for f in os.listdir(root)]
        return [f for f in d if os.path.isdir(f)]

  depending on whether you want 'root/dir' or simply 'dir' in your output.

  Jp

-- 
Seduced, shaggy Samson snored.
She scissored short.  Sorely shorn,
Soon shackled slave, Samson sighed,
Silently scheming,
Sightlessly seeking
Some savage, spectacular suicide.
                -- Stanislaw Lem, "Cyberiad"




From aleax at aleax.it  Sun Jun 15 09:54:21 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:54:21 GMT
Subject: printing non-ASCII characters - please explain
References: <3eec5d44$0$28026$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be> <mailman.1055678605.13303.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hU_Ga.177637$g92.3490270@news2.tin.it>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> Helmut Jarausch wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> please explain the following difference to me (with cvs-python)
>> 
>> N='H\xf6fig'
>> 
>> print N
>> 
>> this prints H?fig     which contains the Germain umlaut '?' = oe = \xf6
>> 
>> but
>> 
>> print [N]
>> prints
>> ['H\xf6fig']
>> 
>> why
> 
> Because print invokes repr() on the object to print.

str(), actually -- that's the reason the umlaut shows when you
just print N.


> repr for lists is implemented in C, but if it were written in Python, it
> would probably look like:
> 
> #v+
> class list:
>      [...]
>      def __repr__(self):
>          return "[%s]" % ", ".join([repr(x) for x in self.items])
> #v-

Yes, and __str__ is much the same, which is where the problem comes in.
A list's __str__ calls repr(), NOT str(), on the items (because it's
felt that using an item's str() might be confusing if that item was a
string including commas, basically).


>> - and how can I change this?
> 
> Use an explicit function to format the list how you want it to be. If
> you're not aware of the difference between str() and repr(), I'd
> recommend you look them up in the Python documentation.

Yes, this advice is indeed the only way to go.


Alex




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jun  9 21:30:19 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 18:30:19 -0700
Subject: ANN: Set-like methods on dicts
References: <mailman.1055182553.10002.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE534AB.F0776BBB@alcyone.com>

Beni Cherniavsky wrote:

> Dictionary users of the Python world, unite (or intersect)!

I think that would be a union.  :-)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The public is a fool.
\__/  Alexander Pope



From hoi235 at hotmail.com  Wed Jun  4 19:22:24 2003
From: hoi235 at hotmail.com (Kim-Ee Yeoh)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 16:22:24 -0700
Subject: ANN: Confluence -> Python for Hardware Verification
References: <833030c0.0306021505.43d5cdf6@posting.google.com> <bbi8rq$glp$1@sirius.dur.ac.uk> <833030c0.0306031015.5dcebf7a@posting.google.com> <bbks5h$cu9$1@sirius.dur.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <ca676f69.0306041522.2c2713d2@posting.google.com>

christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk (Christopher Saunter) wrote in message news:<bbks5h$cu9$1 at sirius.dur.ac.uk>...
> Tom Hawkins (tom1 at launchbird.com) wrote:
> : christopher.saunter at durham.ac.uk (Christopher Saunter) wrote in message news:<bbi8rq$glp$1 at sirius.dur.ac.uk>...
> : > Tom Hawkins (tom1 at launchbird.com) wrote:
>  
> : Confluence actually originated from a Python based HDL called
> : ParaCore (http://www.dilloneng.com/paracore.html).
> 
> Also, from reading the docs, maybee it's time I revived my side project of 
> investigating Haskell...

In that case, you'd really want to look at BlueSpec at bluespec.org,
which is based off Haskell in the same way that Confluence is based
off Ocaml.  The BlueSpec compiler is freely available at the website.

Among the major differences between the two is that BlueSpec generates
VHDL and is, like Haskell, strongly-typed.  The theoretical
underpinnings of BlueSpec are documented in a PhD thesis by James Hoe
written while at MIT.

BlueSpec is operating under less publicized conditions, but IMO, its
symbolic computation capabilities, particularly the term-rewriting
features, are noteworthy.  In other words, if your hardware designs
call for extremely complex control structures, modelling in BlueSpec
could very well accelerate your projects.

(P.S.  I am affiliated to neither companies.)



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jun  4 22:32:54 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 19:32:54 -0700
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054662726.12651.python-list@python.org> <38ec68a6.0306031913.3600bc16@posting.google.com> <3EDD6610.3CABE86A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0306041832.4b0817e5@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3EDD6610.3CABE86A at engcorp.com>...

> The interpreter pre-constructs and caches all the integers from -1 (?)
> to 100 (or maybe it's from 0 to 100... whatever) and always reuses them
> instead of creating new objects with the same integer values.  Try this:
> 
> >>> a = 556
> >>> b = 556
> >>> a is b
>  0
> >>> a = b = 556
> >>> a is b
> 1
> 
> -Peter

I had assumed that it was /because/ of the small integer cache that in
the example a = b = 2, a and b evaluated true for identity.  What I
did /not/ realise is that assigning large integers in the same
statement, or apparently even in several statements on the same line
would have the same effect.

? a = 556; b = 556
? a is b
1



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun 18 13:28:48 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:28:48 -0500
Subject: Why does this work in jython and not in python?
In-Reply-To: <87adcfqn13.fsf@speeder.org>
References: <87adcfqn13.fsf@speeder.org>
Message-ID: <16112.41296.731299.269003@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Roman> I'm sorting a list of dictionaries based on a particular
    Roman> key. Using the code below, the list gets sorted in jython, but
    Roman> not in python. I'm using python 2.2.1 and jython 2.1.

The function passed to sort must return three values, not two.  Try this
instead:

    tdict = [{'a':5}, {'a':3},{'a':4},{'a':2},{'a':1}]

    def sort_func(one, two):
        return cmp(one['a'],two['a'])

    print tdict
    tdict.sort(sort_func)
    print tdict

Here's output w/ Python 2.3b1+:

    >>> tdict = [{'a':5}, {'a':3},{'a':4},{'a':2},{'a':1}]
    >>> 
    >>> def sort_func(one, two):
    ...     return cmp(one['a'],two['a'])
    ... 
    >>> print tdict
    [{'a': 5}, {'a': 3}, {'a': 4}, {'a': 2}, {'a': 1}]
    >>> tdict.sort(sort_func)
    >>> print tdict
    [{'a': 1}, {'a': 2}, {'a': 3}, {'a': 4}, {'a': 5}]

That it worked for Jython 2.1 and not Python 2.2.1 was probably just due to
differences in the underlying implementation details.

Skip




From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jun  4 00:32:09 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 06:32:09 +0200
Subject: How to use Sun's CC with distutils?
References: <3EDD24A5.1B5587B4@astro.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <m3el2ah392.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Tom Loredo <loredo at astro.cornell.edu> writes:

> Anyone know how I should tell distutils to use CC?

Try setting the CC environment variable to CC.

Regards,
Martin



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jun 10 13:06:04 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 10:06:04 -0700
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <mailman.1055253020.26604.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306100906.a9c4158@posting.google.com>

Andrew Bennetts <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055253020.26604.python-list at python.org>...
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 12:25:13PM +0000, Kevin Smith wrote:
> [...]
> >     The proposed syntax is general enough that it could be used 
> >     on class definitions as well as shown below.
> > 
> >         class foo(object) as classmodifier:
> >             class definition here
> > 
> >     However, there are no obvious parallels for use with other
> >     descriptors such as property().
> 
> Note that you can already do tricky stuff with properties if you really want
> to define one all at once:
> 
>     class EvilProperty(type):
>         def __new__(cls, name, bases, d):
>             return property(d.get('get'), d.get('set'), d.get('del'), d['__doc__'])
>     
>     class C(object):
>         class x:
>             """An evil test property"""
>             __metaclass__ = EvilProperty
>             def get(self):
>                 print 'Getting'
>                 return 1
>             def set(self, value):
>                 print 'Setting to', value
>                 
>     c = C()
>     print c.x
>     c.x = 5  
>     print C.x.__doc__
> 
> This has the advantage that you can define your property in a single block,
> and you don't have to look too far ahead in the nested class to see the
> crucial "__metaclass__ = EvilProperty" line.
> 
> It does kinda feel like yet-another-gratuitous-use-of-metaclasses, though ;)
> 
> -Andrew.

Carl Banks posted something similar few days ago. Evil is a good name,
since x returns a property instance and not a class. I think he wrote
something like this:

class C(object):
    class x:
        """An evil test property"""
        def __metaclass__(name, bases, d):
            return property(d.get('get'), d.get('set'),
                            d.get('del'),d.get('__doc__'))
        def get(self):
            print 'Getting'
            return 1
        def set(self, value):
            print 'Setting to', value
      
I hope nobody will ever try this in production code!


                       Michele



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun  8 01:04:41 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 23:04:41 -0600
Subject: program path
In-Reply-To: <3EE2AD6E.933C6ED7@engcorp.com>; from peter@engcorp.com on Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 11:28:46PM -0400
References: <fyvEa.17336$pK2.23786@news.indigo.ie> <3EE28ABC.7D6DB511@engcorp.com> <D0wEa.17343$pK2.23880@news.indigo.ie> <3EE2AD6E.933C6ED7@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030607230441.A2906@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Peter Hansen:
  [...]
> scriptPath = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[0])

On machines where sys.argv[0] isn't the absolute path already,
might it not be the name-as-invoked, and thus ought to be resolved
by scanning the $PATH (or equivalent) rather than as relative to
the current directory?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
Every public frenzy produces legislation purporting to address it.
                                                  (Kinsley's Law)




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jun  3 11:17:27 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:17:27 -0500
Subject: pychecker checks files by executing them ??
In-Reply-To: <3EDCB6BF.1090909@molgen.mpg.de>
References: <3EDCB6BF.1090909@molgen.mpg.de>
Message-ID: <16092.48135.131983.708842@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Axel> I got pychecker and installed it on my w2k machine as
    Axel> described. It also seems to work, but when I do: pychecker
    Axel> myFile.py it actually "executes" myFile.py, while checking it. Is
    Axel> this the correct behaviour??  Obviously I would like to check my
    Axel> scripts without executing them. Any idea what's going on ?

PyChecker imports the files you ask it to check.  If you want to provide the
ability to execute the file as a main application program, place the main
program code in a function and guard it.  For example, instead of:

    #!/usr/bin/env python

    import base64

    name = raw_input("Enter your name: ").strip()
    print "Hello %s." % base64.encodestring(name).strip()
    print "That's an unusual name.  Is it Dutch?"


try this:

    #!/usr/bin/env python

    import base64

    def main():
        name = raw_input("Enter your name: ").strip()
        print "Hello %s." % base64.encodestring(name).strip()
        print "That's an unusual name.  Is it Dutch?"

    if __name__ == "__main__":
        main()

As a pleasant side effect of this slight restructuring, your program might
run faster.  Why that's so is left as an exercise for the reader. :-)

Skip




From pythonidae_olivaceous at hotmail.com  Sun Jun  8 02:28:02 2003
From: pythonidae_olivaceous at hotmail.com (Ben Minton)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 06:28:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Newbie Question re Python 2.2.2 WIN
Message-ID: <Xns9394A2EFE7E51pythonidaeunderscore@203.220.9.230>

Hi All

Just downloaded python 2.2.2 zip for WIN & html zip for docs. Installed 
great, just now I have the gui open on the desktop, what next?

I am reading through the tutorial but can't seem to find 'howto write and 
save a simple file' which makes it kind of hard. Is there are a specific 
reference for the absolute beginner to make/save.edit files?

Also are there any good personal sites run by users of this group that 
someone could point me to? I have been to amk.ca which was good but would 
like something a bit more hand-holding.

Also, what is the recommended format for displaying your email address, if 
you want to reduce the likelihood of SPAM.Does this group daemon accept 
munged email addresses?

Thanks, Ben



From thedustbustr at aol.com  Sat Jun  7 18:48:28 2003
From: thedustbustr at aol.com (TheDustbustr)
Date: 07 Jun 2003 22:48:28 GMT
Subject: trouble embedding python
References: <mailman.1054880053.25297.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030607184828.00387.00000172@mb-m12.aol.com>

Let me explain my situation:  I'm doing a 3D game with opengl.  I made a simple
terrain renderer that barely made 40 fps with a 48x48 tri mesh and 3 textures
(sorted by texture, using vertex arrays) (I have a Geforce4).  Similarly, I
made an exceedingly basic explosion (randomly rotating triangles with random
velocities) that got 40fps as well.  This simply is not acceptable.  The
problem was probably PyOpenGL, but I got sick of terrible framerates.

So, I'm writing everything in C++ and using Python for scripting and user
configuration.  At this point, I dont need to embed much, I'll simply write
interface functions in Python and call those from c++.

Also, this project serves as a way for me to better learn a language besides
python: in college, I don't want to have to learn another language for a
course.

I don't understand your comment about optimizing C++.  In Python, I optimized
next to nothing (except for OpenGL vertex submission), but it should be
irrelevant: I get hundreds of FPS in similar C++ apps.

Some related questions.
1.  Whats the difference between PyDict_GetItemString and
PyObject_GetItemString?
2. If I want to access "scripts.classes.race.human.Human" (where scripts is a
package containing several subpackages containing subpackages containing
modules containing classes), do I have to PyObject_GetItemString each thing
seperated by periods?  Is there no shortcut?



From ntreloar at avaquest.com  Sun Jun 22 20:23:00 2003
From: ntreloar at avaquest.com (Nathan Treloar)
Date: 22 Jun 2003 17:23:00 -0700
Subject: Steaming PDF from Python Script to IE
References: <4b46139c.0306211630.1aeb3ffa@posting.google.com> <bd42lm$8f84$1@as201.hinet.hr>
Message-ID: <4b46139c.0306221623.c23d067@posting.google.com>

Thanks to everyone who responded with all this great information. 

It turns out that the automatic line endings were the problem. So:

    out = open("test.pdf", "rb").read()
    print 'Content-type: application/pdf\n\n'
    print out

doesn't work, but:

    out = open("test.pdf", "rb").read()
    print 'Content-type: application/pdf\n\n',
    print out,

and

    out = open("test.pdf", "rb").read()
    sys.stdout.write('Content-type: application/pdf\n\n')
    sys.stdout.write(out)

work.



From jim_938 at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  2 11:47:20 2003
From: jim_938 at hotmail.com (Jimmy verma)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 21:17:20 +0530
Subject: function pointers
Message-ID: <Sea1-F150j91nYBihaM00010ae3@hotmail.com>

Hello !

I have a few statements in C for which i want to write the equivalent code 
in python:

typedef int (*AB)(int a, int b);          #a function pointer type used to 
describe signature of some function.

Then a structure of the form

typedef struct abc
{
       AB make;
       int a;
}ABC;

Now this structure is getting passed to some function

xyz(const ABC* inter)
{
         #some code here
          e = inter->Make(a, b);
}

How can i handle it with python.

Waiting for reply

Thanks in advance.

Regards.

_________________________________________________________________
Race along with NK. The fastest Indian 
http://server1.msn.co.in/sp03/tataracing/index.asp Feel the thrill!





From delphiro at zonnet.nl  Fri Jun 20 10:07:34 2003
From: delphiro at zonnet.nl (delphiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:07:34 +0200
Subject: 1== 1 is False?
Message-ID: <20030620160734.2ba89f30.delphiro@zonnet.nl>

Hi,

I get a strange error stating that two equal values are not equal. In short what I do;

I calculate the intersection point of two linesegments. If they intersect I check if the intersections point is within both linesegmenents. The code for the latter is;

[CODE]
def GetLineSegmentIntersection( p1, p2, p3, p4 ): 
	p = GetLineIntersection( p1, p2, p3, p4 )
	#do we have an intersection at all?
	if p == []:
		return []
	xmax = _MAX( p1[0], p2[0] )
    	ymax = _MAX( p1[1], p2[1] )
	xmin = _MIN( p1[0], p2[0] )
	ymin = _MIN( p1[1], p2[1] )
   	#within range of line 1?
    	if( p[0] <= xmax )and( p[0] >= xmin)and( p[1] <= ymax )and( p[1] >= ymin ):
        	#line 2
        	xmax = _MAX( p3[0], p4[0] )
        	ymax = _MAX( p3[1], p4[1] )
        	xmin = _MIN( p3[0], p4[0] )
        	ymin = _MIN( p3[1], p4[1] )
		if( p[0] <= xmax )and( p[0] >= xmin)and( p[1] <= ymax )and( p[1] >= ymin ):
       	     		return array((p[0],p[1]))
	#if we get here then the point is not within the linesegments
	return []
[/CODE]

This works fine but for some strange reason I sometimes the statement for the check of line 2 is NOT valid if p[1] == ymax == ymin. 

If I print out the values I get something like 2.260212 <= 2.260212 and 2.260212 >= 2.260212 is NOT true.

What's wrong?
Rob

-- 
[-------------delphiro-------------]
[-- http://pyciv.sourceforge.net --]
[----------------------------------]




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Jun 29 16:35:14 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 22:35:14 +0200
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <c9%Ha.200753$g92.4077297@news2.tin.it> <uy8zy4vzs.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <pNfIa.206219$g92.4232233@news2.tin.it> <ea97dfd9.0306290730.137c6837@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bdnite$lsg$1@news.hccnet.nl>

david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams) wrote:
 <700+ LOP>
>Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
<snip>
>> In Python one generally identifies (just as informally) a container as
>> "an object which has a length" (using "length", perhaps a suboptimal
>> choice of wording, to mean "number of items currently contained") and
>> simultaneously express both 'c is a container' and 'that container is
>> not empty' by
>>
>>     assert len(c)
>
>That understanding of "containerness" is, AFAICT, not universally held
>among Pythonistas by any means.  Good thing too, probably: it looks
>like there is no such thing as an empty container:
>
>     >>> assert len([])
>     Traceback ...

The following capture of an interactive session might be informative:

Python 2.3b1 (#2, Apr 26 2003, 15:09:25) 
[GCC 2.95.3-5 (cygwin special)] on cygwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> len({})
0
>>> len([])
0
>>> assert 0
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AssertionError
>>> 
<snip>
>I love a nice jestful debate.  Maybe your whole post is jestful and I
>failed to recognize it.  It certainly seems to have a derisive tone
>which makes it hard to see the love.  Where's the love, people?
>Anyway, if you tell me you didn't mean it that way I'll take your word
>for it.

Perhaps not love, to me both you guys are discussing trifles. TDD and
the source of it, static typing, are both about being satisfied with
just passing tests, while the really important discussion -for me at
least- is about aligning the code with ones thoughts, and how to
accomplish that. (I'm not yet talking about aligning ones thoughts
with the universe, I wouldn't know how to start that :-)

Maybe it's like the Zen of shooting arrows, not aiming at the goal,
but aiming to make the whole process flow naturally.

Confronting the Martellibot is like flirting with an encyclopedia, I'd
rather not do it myself, but I respect those who do, because it
produces knowledge.

Anton



From benoit.besse at club-internet.fr  Wed Jun 18 02:10:26 2003
From: benoit.besse at club-internet.fr (Benoit BESSE)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:10:26 +0200
Subject: Multicast socket
Message-ID: <3ef00241$0$14312$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

Hello, my script try to multicast message over the net but I have this error

C:\Python21\_projet>python mcast2.py -s
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "mcast2.py", line 202, in ?
    main()
  File "mcast2.py", line 195, in main
    sender(flags[0])
  File "mcast2.py", line 103, in sender
    mcastSocket.setsockopt(IPPROTO_IP,IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP, mreq)
  File "<string>", line 1, in setsockopt
socket.error: (10055, 'No buffer space available')

Here my script. Please try a very bad french pythonner. Thanks.

BB

# Send/receive UDP multicast packets.
# This is built-in on SGI, still optional for most other vendors.
# Usage:
#   mcast -s (sender)
#   mcast -b (sender, using broadcast instead multicast)
#   mcast    (receivers)
MYPORT = 9875
MYGROUP = '127.0.0.0'
TTL = 1
import struct, MySQLdb, sys, time
import re, string
from NetworkTimeProtocolConvert import *
from socket import *
############################################################################
#########################################
# Initialise la connection a la base de donnees
############################################################################
#########################################
def OpenConnection(self, host="localhost",
user="root",passwd="",db="ZCONF"):
 """Initialise la connection a la base de donnees"""
 host=host
 user=user
 passwd=passwd
 db=db
 connex,cursor,erreur="","",""
 try:
  connex = MySQLdb.connect(host,user,passwd,db)
  cursor = connex.cursor()
 except MySQLdb.Error, erreur:
  print "Erreur ouverture cursor et connection %d: %s" % (erreur.args[0],
erreur.args[1])
 return connex,cursor,erreur
############################################################################
#########################################
# Ferme le curseur et la connection a la base de donnees
############################################################################
#########################################
def CloseConnection(connex,cursor):
 """Ferme le curseur et la connection a la base de donnees"""
 erreur=""
 try:
  cursor.close ()
  connex.close ()
 except MySQLdb.Error, erreur:
  print "Erreur fermeture cursor et connection %d: %s" % (erreur.args[0],
erreur.args[1])
 return erreur
############################################################################
#########################################
# Selection d'une session dans la table des sessions a emettre
############################################################################
#########################################
def SelectSession():
 """Selection d'une session dans la table des sessions a emettre"""
 erreur,requete,data="","",""
 nbrlgn=0
 connex,cursor,errcon=OpenConnection("")
 try:
  requete  = "SELECT
id_ts,ts_name,ts_info,ts_ddebut,ts_hdebut,ts_dfin,ts_hfin,ts_repetition,"
  requete +=       " user_id,id_lieux,liste_media"
  requete += " FROM temp_session"
 except:
  f.write("!!! Erreur requete SELECT dans la table SAP !!! "+LF+requete+LF)
 try:
  cursor.execute(requete)
  nbrlgn = int(cursor.rowcount)
  try:
   data=cursor.fetchall()
  except MySQLdb.Error, erreur:
   f.write("Erreur session     FETCH %d: %s" % (erreur.args[0],
erreur.args[1])+LF)
 except MySQLdb.Error, erreur:
  f.write("Erreur session     SELECT %d: %s" % (erreur.args[0],
erreur.args[1])+LF)
 errcon=CloseConnection(connex,cursor)
 return data,erreur,nbrlgn
############################################################################
#########################################
# Formate un message SDP
############################################################################
#########################################
def MessageSDP(Session):
    "Retourne "
    uri="http://benoit.the.best.net"
    msg = "v=0\r\n" + \
          "o="+str(Session['id_ts'])+ntpTime() + " " + ntpTime() + " IN IP4
sphinx.via.ecp.fr\r\n" + \
          "s=" + Session['ts_name'] + "\r\n" + \
          "u=" + uri + "\r\n" + \
          "t=0 0\r\n" + \
          "c=IN IP4 127.0.0.1/1\r\n" + \
          "m=video 1234 RTP/MP2T 33\r\n" + \
          "a=control:" + uri + "\r\n"
    return msg
############################################################################
#########################################
# Envoie de donn?es sur un groupe multicast
############################################################################
#########################################
def sender(flag):
 Session={}
 mcastSocket = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM)
 if flag == '-b':
  mcastSocket.setsockopt(SOL_SOCKET, SO_BROADCAST, 1)
  mygroup = '<broadcast>'
 else:
         mygroup = MYGROUP
# set time-to-live option on the socket
  if sys.platform == "win32":
          mcastSocket.setsockopt(SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
          mcastSocket.setblocking(0)
   mcastSocket.bind( ("", MYPORT))
          ttl = struct.pack( 'I', TTL )
# Construct struct mreq from grpaddr and ifaddr
   ifaddr = INADDR_ANY
   mreq = struct.pack('>4sl',address_to_bytes(mygroup), ifaddr)
# Add group membership
   mcastSocket.setsockopt(IPPROTO_IP,IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP, mreq)
# following shouldn't be necessary, as loop back isthe default
   mcastSocket.setsockopt(IPPROTO_IP, IP_MULTICAST_TTL,ttl)
  else:
   ttl = struct.pack('B', TTL )
   mcastSocket.setsockopt(IPPROTO_IP, IP_MULTICAST_TTL,ttl)
 while 1:
  print 'sending'
  data,erreur,nbrlgn=SelectSession()
  print data
  for record in data:
   Session['id_ts']=record[0]
   Session['ts_name']=record[1]
   Session['ts_info']=record[2]
   Session['ts_ddebut']=record[3]
   Session['ts_hdebut']=record[4]
   Session['ts_dfin']=record[5]
   Session['ts_hfin']=record[6]
   Session['ts_repetition']=record[7]
   Session['user_id']=record[8]
   Session['id_lieux']=record[9]
   Session['liste_media']=record[10]
   print "record[0]",record[0]
   print "record[1]",record[1]
   print "Session",str(Session)
   Message = MessageSDP(Session)
   print Message
  #mcastSocket.sendto(record[0], (mygroup, MYPORT))
         try:
             data = mcastSocket.recvfrom(1500)
             print 'got data', data
         except:
             pass
         time.sleep(5)
############################################################################
#########################################
# Passe une adresse en bit
############################################################################
#########################################
def address_to_bytes( address ):
    bytes = map(chr,map(string.atoi,string.split(address,'.',),))
    return string.join(bytes, "")
############################################################################
#########################################
# Ouvre et initialise une socket et ?coute un groupe multicast
############################################################################
#########################################
def receiver():
# Open and initialize the socket
    mcastSocket = openmcastsock(MYGROUP, MYPORT)
    print MYGROUP, MYPORT, str(mcastSocket)
# Loop, printing any data we receive
    while 1:
        try:
            data, sender = mcastSocket.recvfrom(1500)
            while data[-1:] == '\0':
                data = data[:-1] # Striptrailing \0's
                print sender, ':', `data`
        except error, value:
            if value.args[0] == 10035:
                pass
            else:
                raise
                time.sleep( 0.05)
############################################################################
#########################################
# Ouvre une socket UDP, la bind sur le port et selectionne une group
multicast
############################################################################
#########################################
# Open a UDP socket, bind it to a port and select a multicast group
def openmcastsock(group, port):
# Import modules used only here
    import struct
# Create a socket
    mcastSocket = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM)
    mcastSocket.setblocking( 0)
# Allow multiple copies of this program on one machine
    mcastSocket.setsockopt(SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
# Bind it to the port
    mcastSocket.bind(('', port))
# Look up multicast group address in name server
    group = gethostbyname(group)
# Construct struct mreq from grpaddr and ifaddr
    ifaddr = INADDR_ANY
    mreq = struct.pack('>4sl', address_to_bytes(group), ifaddr)
    print `mreq`
# Add group membership
    mcastSocket.setsockopt(IPPROTO_IP, IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP, mreq)
    return mcastSocket
############################################################################
#########################################
# Procedure principale : execute un serveur ou donne usage du module
############################################################################
#########################################
def main():
 global f, fic
 f=open('SessionCreate.txt', 'w')
 fic=open('Enreg.txt', 'w')
 flags = sys.argv[1:]
 if flags:
  sender(flags[0])
 else:
  receiver()
############################################################################
#########################################
# Point d'entree du module
############################################################################
#########################################
if __name__=="__main__":
    main()





From achrist at easystreet.com  Fri Jun 20 00:09:44 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:09:44 -0700
Subject: Alternatives to Python ?
References: <3EF18A03.3050706@netspace.net.au> <a6154072.0306191947.5f5510@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF28908.1CE42D62@easystreet.com>

The title of this thread reminds me of the city council in one
city that thought that their town was attracting homeless people
because it had too many public restrooms, so they appointed a 
committee to investigate "Alternatives to Restrooms".  There are
about as many alternatives to Python as there are alternatives
to restrooms.  

This is not to say that everything else is worthless, just that 
Python aims at a certain niche, and there isn't much else that
does exactly the same.  It depends on what you want to do, but
when you want to do what Python does, the alternatives feel a
little like a tube running down your leg with a bottle in your 
boot.


Al



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun  8 14:18:03 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:18:03 -0600
Subject: the 'in' operator and class instances
In-Reply-To: <20030608085256.M7792@ee.iitm.ernet.in>; from ee01b092@ee.iitm.ernet.in on Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 02:32:32PM +0530
References: <20030608062201.16011.72647.Mailman@mail.python.org> <20030608085256.M7792@ee.iitm.ernet.in>
Message-ID: <20030608121803.C4608@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Vinoo vasudevan:
  [...]
> >>> class a:
>    def f(self):
>       pass
> 
> >>> 'f' in a
> <Traceback>

Try
    'f' in a.__dict__
(This doesn't check for inherited attributes; for that, use
hasattr.)

> Could somebody tell me why class instances don't use in to check for
> memebership i.e. something like hasattr(..). I read up on "__contains__" in
> the Language Reference. Couldn't python just define a default version of this
> for all classes/instances to check for membership. [...]

It would be a bad idea for instances, since containers want
different semantics.  (They could override __contains__, of
course, but then how would you get the original behaviour?)

For classes, sure, it could be done.  I'm not sure why you'd want
to, though.  Classes are, I admit, containers for their attributes
in a sense, but the additional behaviour which classes have
(inheritance, descriptors, etc.) makes this seem a strained way of
thinking.

  [...]
-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"[T]rue greatness is when your name is like ampere, watt, and fourier
 -- when it's spelled with a lower case letter."      -- R.W. Hamming




From jiwon at softwise.co.kr  Wed Jun 25 01:22:08 2003
From: jiwon at softwise.co.kr (Jiwon Seo)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 22:22:08 -0700
Subject: newbie: good reasons for learning Python?
References: <3ef37a28$0$306$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <a6154072.0306242122.44c4b151@posting.google.com>

"somaBoyMX" <nosuch at fakemail.net> wrote in message news:<3ef37a28$0$306$ba620e4c at reader0.news.skynet.be>...
> Hiya,
> 
> 
> I've been checking out some Python tutorials on the web, it looks cool
> enough. I'm already fairly good at JavaScript, ActionScript and PHP and now
> I'd like to tackle Python. However, I still need to be convinced before I
> decide to dedicate my precious free time to this. So I'd like to hear some
> convincing arguments for Python.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> .soma

To answer your question properly, one would need some more information
about what you want from learning python, but I think I can safely
assume that you just want to learn new language to extend your
intellectual horizon. In that case, python has many good points.

Python is good language to learn paradigms. It has support for
functional programming, higher order programming, generators, etc,
which some languages does not support. So, you can learn these
paragigms easily from python, probably much more easily than from
java.

Python is also good for its clean syntax. They omitted needless
brackets, and forced the use of indentation. The motto of python is
"There is always one obvious way to do it", and many try to follow
that motto. So, you can learn some brevity from reading python code.

Python is rapidly developing language, and you can see many concepts
coming into it, and from which you can learn something, too. Just
watching carefully what has come to python and what has changed gives
you much inspiration.

Python is a good language to broaden your knowledge. Go and learn it.



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Jun  2 14:26:54 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 13:26:54 -0500
Subject: [OT] Inexpensive virtual domain host for penurious friend's low
 traffic static html site?
In-Reply-To: <bbg42t$8bd$0@216.39.172.122> (bokr@oz.net's message of "2 Jun
 2003 18:12:45 GMT")
References: <bbg42t$8bd$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <m2smqsfi8h.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Bengt" == Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> writes:

    Bengt> I've heard some provide such free hosting as part of domain
    Bengt> reg/dns accounts.  Can anyone suggest such a service to
    Bengt> recommend to a friend? Or a better place to ask?  TVMIA.

I've had good luck using servercentral.net for DNS ($15 per domain
name per year) with freezope (no charge for basic hosting).  It's
zope, but you can use zope w/o knowing zope if you want since zope
serves plain html as well.

The freezope area will have a URL like

http://freezope2.nipltd.net/yourname

And you can tell servercentral to map 

yourcompany.com -> http://freezope2.nipltd.net/yourname

in a way that will be transparent to the user.




John Hunter




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Fri Jun 27 11:07:57 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:07:57 -0600
Subject: Activating `-i' from inside a script?
In-Reply-To: <oqwuf8cqpy.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030627090641.01ab8f00@66.28.54.253>

At 08:24 PM 6/26/2003 -0400, Fran?ois Pinard wrote:

>Hi, Python friends.
>
>Is there a way for a script to activate the effect of the `-i' option, that
>is, to force interactive mode once `__main__' has run?  For one application,
>I would like that if the application discovers some data discrepancy or
>failure (not a Python error) and only then, and if the application was also
>started from a tty, it gives the user to interactively explore, using
>Python, the context that was built while the run was going.

You can use sys.exit() within __main__ to terminate the interpreter if 
there is no problem, and use -i to run the module.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.492 / Virus Database: 291 - Release Date: 6/24/2003

From mike at nospam.com  Mon Jun 23 20:52:30 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:52:30 -0700
Subject: Grepping with Python - script/prog required.
References: <ll4ffv4klfjcs294nqdrsea1h4o4f9vunj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bd87c2$p5m$1@main.gmane.org>

John Fitzsimons wrote:

> I want to search an ordered text file and list web links such as :
> and Output like ;
>
> ftp://ftp.eunet.bg/pub/simtelnet
> http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq
> www.fourmilab.ch/annoyance-filter/
>
> Can anyone suggest the code and/or a python program/script I could
> adapt to do this please ?

That's very dirty (with high false positive and negative hits) url
recognizer:

import re
url=re.compile(r'(?<=\s)(?:(?:ftp|http|https)://|www(?:\.[^\. ]+){2,}).*?(?=
\s)')
print '\n'.join(re.findall(url, your_text_goes_here))

Enjoy!
Mike







From greg at amstlc.com  Tue Jun  3 13:19:45 2003
From: greg at amstlc.com (Greg Unrein)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 10:19:45 -0700
Subject: Variable Modifications in a class
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054658001.11458.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1054658001.11458.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vdpm4a916kci47@corp.supernews.com>

Mehta, Anish wrote:
> def func(ab):
>   b = ab()
>   c = ab()
> 
>   b.a = 5
>   b.b = 10
> 
>   c = b

This is your problem. c and b are the same object.

> 
>   c.a = 30
>   c.b = 40
> 
>   print b.a, b.b
>   print c.a, c.b
>   t = func(AB)
> 




From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 12 19:56:43 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 16:56:43 -0700
Subject: How to test if a variable has a natural number?
References: <bc8a37$flfio$1@ID-108519.news.dfncis.de> <EpOFa.27679$7n1.875205@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <mailman.1055375241.9496.python-list@python.org> <84fc4588.0306120350.8c4f8d1@posting.google.com> <yfsznknjn5w.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0306121556.46c82564@posting.google.com>

Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<yfsznknjn5w.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk>...
> pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai) writes:
> 
> > How about this...
> > 
> > from types import *
> > 
> > def natural(num):
> >     if num>0 and type(num) is IntType:
> >         return 1
> >     else:
> >         return 0
> 
> Nope. 
> 
> >>> natural(1L)
> 0

How about...

def natural(num):
   return num > 0 and num == long(num)

?



From jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk  Sun Jun 22 14:35:09 2003
From: jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk (Jeremy Yallop)
Date: 22 Jun 2003 18:35:09 GMT
Subject: Getting a list of an object's methods?
References: <Xns93A2DFFF69BDCfreddiethescaryeleph@203.10.110.105> <bd498r$o0ehq$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de> <yfsk7be5e5f.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <bd4sst$pcteb$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Jeremy Yallop <jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
> 
>> Freddie wrote:
>> > I've been having some issues trying to get a list of the methods of a class. 
>> > In 2.2.3, this code gives me all of the object's variables and methods:
>> > 
>> > for thing in dir(self):
>> >     	print 'thing:', thing
>> > 
>> > In 2.1.3, on several different machines/OSes (Linux and FreeBSD), only the 
>> > variables show up. The same thing happens with __dict__. Is there a way to do 
>> > this that will work on 2.1.x, 2.2.x, and I guess 2.3.x as well? 
>> 
>>   self.__class__.__dict__
> 
> No, that won't work reliably because not all instances have __class__ and not
> all types/classes have __dict__s (those with __slots__, e.g and also some C
> extension).

Good points.  Thanks.

>>>> import inspect, operator
>>>> inspect.getmembers(foo, operator.isCallable)
> 
> for a start

Unfortunately, this isn't any better than the original idea of using
dir(), since inspect.getmembers is implemented using dir().  As the OP
noted, dir() isn't reliable.  For example, 'mro' isn't in int's dir(),
although it is (the name of) a method of type and in type's __dict__.

Jeremy.



From steve at cyber.com.au  Wed Jun 18 23:06:07 2003
From: steve at cyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 20:06:07 -0700
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <mailman.1055908712.5410.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d13e4243.0306181906.4d41a754@posting.google.com>

"Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055908712.5410.python-list at python.org>...

> Which would make it incredibly simple for a company to take GPL 
> software, not accept the license, and then do whatever they want with it 
> since it would be in the public domain (due to explicit waiver of 
> copyright).

Even if this is true, which is doubtful, that doesn't harm others'
ability to use GPLed software. If you are correct that the GPL is
legally equivalent to putting a work in the public domain, then what
is the worst that can happen? You can still copyright your specific
version of the work -- in the same way that Disney's specific version
of the public-domain story of "Snow White" is protected by copyright,
but Snow White itself remains in the public domain, free for anyone
else to use, without needing Disney's permission.

-- 
Steven D'Aprano



From morden at shadows.net  Sun Jun  1 18:22:42 2003
From: morden at shadows.net (morden)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 15:22:42 -0700
Subject: Problems with importation of regsub module in 2.2
Message-ID: <bbdrc4$ojc$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

I got this trace after upgrade from 1.x tro 2.2:

...
     import regsub
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/regsub.py", line 20, in ?
     import regex
ImportError: /usr/local/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/regex.so: undefined 
symbol: _Py_NoneStruct

Here is the python file:

if __name__ == '__main__':
	print "this module can't be run as a script\n"

import regsub
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ it does not seem to like this import. What am 
I doing wrong? It used to work in 1.4...

def getfontheight():
		return 0 # leave the job of mangling the input for printer
def getfontwidth():
		return 0

AdjError = "Error calculating vertical paper adjustment"

def convert(input, layout):
	return regsub.gsub( '\f', "\n", regsub.gsub( '\r', '\n', input))

def header(layout):
		return ''

def trailer(layout):
		return ''




From gscott2112 at adelphia.net  Thu Jun  5 21:49:42 2003
From: gscott2112 at adelphia.net (Gordon Scott)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 01:49:42 GMT
Subject: Singleton class: what is the purpose?
References: <20030605111536.GA3436@nl.linux.org> <mailman.1054814890.6876.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <WqSDa.1962$o%.2111148@news3.news.adelphia.net>

Is there any difference between the Borg and the Flyweight?  Sound like the
same thing.

Gordo

"Aldo Cortesi" <aldo at nullcube.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1054814890.6876.python-list at python.org...
> Thus spake Gerrit Holl (gerrit at nl.linux.org):
>
> > What is a singleton class? What is the purpose of a
> > singleton class?
> >
> > On the web, I have found that a singleton class allows
> > only one instance.  Is that correct?
>
> Yep, that's right - the Singleton pattern is used to make
> sure that only one instance of a given class exists.
>
>
> > If so, it should be easily implementable with:
> >
> >  20 >>> class Singleton(object):
> >  20 ...  instances = []
> >  20 ...  def __init__(self):
> >  20 ...   if len(self.__class__.instances) == 0:
> >  20 ...    self.__class__.instances.append(self)
> >  20 ...   else:
> >  20 ...    raise Exception("No way jose!")
>
> Almost, but this is really only half an implementation of
> the Singleton pattern. A real implementation has to do two
> things:
>     - Ensure that only one instance exists
>     - Make that instance available in some global way
>
> See here for some discussion of various implementation
> strategies:
>
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Cookbook/Recipe/52558
>
>
> > But what is the purpose of a Singleton class?
>
> There are lots of circumstances in which the Singleton
> pattern comes in handy. For instance, you may have a program
> that should have only one connection to a database, or a
> system where only one print spooler should exist. Or,
> perhaps you want to share a single instance of a commonly
> used, but expensive to create, object between the various
> parts of your application. For a more in-depth discussion of
> the use (and abuse) of the Singleton Pattern see the
> excellent c2 wiki:
>
> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?SingletonPattern
>
>
> You should also note that the Singleton pattern has recently
> fallen out of vogue with the Python in-crowd. If you're hip,
> and in-the-know, you're supposed to advocate the Borg
> pattern. The name is a pune or play on words - whereas the
> Singleton pattern means that There Can Only Be One (i.e.
> only one instance can exist), the Borg pattern means that
> You Will Be Assimilated (i.e. many instances can exist, but
> all have the same state). The skeleton for a Borg-ised class
> looks like this:
>
> class Borg:
>     __shared_state = {}
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.__dict__ = self.__shared_state
>
> As you can see, a single __dict__ is shared between all
> instances. In practice, this achieves much the same purpose
> as the Singleton pattern - object identity may differ from
> instance to instance, but since state is shared, all
> instances act exactly the same.
>
>
> Finally, many people forget that Python has something very
> much like the Singleton concept built in - modules. Python
> ensures that code in module scope is only executed once
> (unless you force a reload), no matter how many times a
> module is imported....
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Aldo
>
>
>
>
> --
> Aldo Cortesi
> aldo at nullcube.com
> http://www.nullcube.com
>
>





From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 19 11:34:10 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 15:34:10 GMT
Subject: sum(strings)
References: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <bcskru$him$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <bcsl5i$k73$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

Actually, here's the important one (BDFL pronouncement on sum()):

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-April/034853.html

"""
OK, let me summarize and pronounce.

sum(sequence_of_strings) is out. ...
"""






From news at manuelmgarcia.com  Thu Jun 12 16:30:20 2003
From: news at manuelmgarcia.com (Manuel Garcia)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 20:30:20 GMT
Subject: Twice instanciation
References: <bcakmg$jv7$1@news-reader14.wanadoo.fr> <bcakrl$ivt$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <bcan0c$j7h$1@news-reader13.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <hknhev8tn24ar2anr5ttqlqsaqssfvgluj@4ax.com>

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 22:14:35 +0200, Salvatore <artyprog at wanadoo.fr>
wrote:

>In fact that is not exactly what I want.
>I don't want a unique instance of a class, but i want
>to avoid a same name of an instance being used twice.

You may have to use a 'try' statement.

    print "1st time, create name 'G'"

    try:
        G
    except NameError:
        G = 'whatever'
    else:
        print "name 'G' already in use"

    print "2nd time, recognize already using 'G'"

    try:
        G
    except NameError:
        G = 'whatever'
    else:
        print "name 'G' already in use"

If you want this behavior as part of your class, you will have to do
some very tricky programming with 'sys._getframe()' and 'inspect' in
your '__init__'. 'sys._getframe(1).f_locals' and
'sys._getframe(1).f_globals' so you can see the names already in use,
to see if perhaps any are an instance of your class, and then
'inspect' to take a peek at the line of code with the assignment.

If, in fact, this is what you want, may I ask what the exact purpose
is?  What are you trying to avoid, and why is it important to avoid
it?  The code for the procedure very roughly sketched out in the
preceeding paragraph would be difficult to write, and very difficult
to be made robust.

Manuel



From tertiusc at netscape.net  Wed Jun 18 17:33:02 2003
From: tertiusc at netscape.net (Tertius)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:33:02 +0200
Subject: sqlite select max() on integer field returns quoted value
References: <3EF0D8CB.6010203@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <3EF0DA8E.5060800@netscape.net>

I mean pysqlite.

Tertius wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I do a "select max(id) from table"
> id is a integer primary key not null and fetchone() returns tuple with 
> quoted value ('223',)
> should it not rather be (223,) ?
> 
> Many thanks
> Tertius
> 




From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Jun 10 11:58:32 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:58:32 -0500
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330506FBBA@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Courageous [mailto:jkraska at san.rr.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 10:52 AM
> 
> > Apart from the fact that the python user community is not by 
> > any approximation a subset of the LaTeX community, I find the
> > argument that 'as' is confusing because it is already used in
> > import statements or SQL pretty dubious -- 
> 
> As well, I. While it would be better on general principle to 
> find a better word, if no such word is forthcoming this particular
> use of 'as' isn't at all confusing to me. As you point out, 'as'
> is a high utility English word already. Users ought to be familiar
> with its inherit dynamicity. :)
> 
> C//
>

Yes, but computer languages do not benefit from having words
with multiple distinct meanings.  "as" is already used to import
words from other modules giving them a different identifier than
it's original:

>>> import compile from re as RxCompile

Given that this meaning for "as" is already known, how should
the following be read:

>>> def SpecialFunction(a,b,c) as Synchronized:
         ....

This might tell many a user that this definition of SpecialFunction
gives it an additional name, Synchronized, and not that the
Synchronized() modifier is applied to the function SpecialFunction.

Given that, this definition:

>>> def VerySpecialFunction(a,b) as Synchronized, Memoized,
Contract(pre,post):
       ....

is downright confusing.  It might be taken to be more confusing
than the alternate syntax:

>>> def VerySpecialFunction(a,b) [Synchronized, Memoized,
Contract(pre,post)]:
      ....

because the first uses "as", which is already known; otoh, the use
of a list (or tuple) after the parameter list is unknown, so there's
no previous reference to muddle things up.

just an opinion.

-gca

pd: Please excuse this evil legalese. :-(
--

Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From wester at ilt.fhg.de  Fri Jun 13 09:30:05 2003
From: wester at ilt.fhg.de (Rolf Wester)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:30:05 +0200
Subject: How to pause within a thread
In-Reply-To: <3EE9B293.D80031C5@engcorp.com>
References: <bcbuvp$d6j$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE> <3EE9B293.D80031C5@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bccjla$4ok$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Rolf Wester wrote:
> 
>>I have a thread that is polling a server for completion of a routine.
>>This thread should only consume little cpu time so I want to pause this
>>thread between calls to the server. Is there any simple function for
>>this or do I have to use a Timer object?
> 
> 
> import time
> time.sleep(x)  where x is a float, in seconds
> 
Thank you very much. That's exactly what I was looking for.

> But this is probably not the best approach.  Rather than
> "poll" the server, presumably using a non-blocking recv() call (?)
> you should investigate the select.select() function.  Either
> that, or base your code on an existing framework that already
> deals with such issues in simpler and more scalable ways
> (e.g. asyncore, or Twisted).
> 

I think I didn't describe correctly what I'm doing. I have a server 
written in Python which starts another process (a C++ program). This 
process takes some time to complete and I want to periodically ask the 
server whether the process has finished. Meanwhile I want to make other
computations on the client side (Python with C-extensions) and 
communicate with the server.

Thanks again

Rolf Wester




From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Jun  9 07:05:26 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 13:05:26 +0200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <PbidnQB3TIQbEX-jXTWcpg@comcast.com> <l18yschlge.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3ptlouoq6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l14r2zg2yq.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <m3isrffr49.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Ed Avis <ed at membled.com> writes:

> Sorry, what I meant was, the semantics is the same as a named def for
> the constructs that are added to the language.  Lambda-functions which
> were legal before the change keep the same meaning.  This could be
> implemented by adding an implicit 'return' if the body of the function
> is an expression_stmt.

So what is the rationale for wanting that change, again? Looking at
your proposal as I interpret it now, it seems you suggest allowing the
following in a lambda expression:

expr_stmt:       same as today
assert_stmt:     new feature
assignment_stmt: supported, but useless
                 You can only assign to local variables
                 so a lambda with a assignment_stmt inside 
                 would have no effect
augmented_assignment_stmt: likewise
pass_stmt:       supported, but useless
del_stmt:        supported, but useless
                 you can only del local variables inside the lambda
print_stmt:      would be a new feature
return_stmt:     allowed, but useless
                 can be expressed with expr_stmt
yield_stmt:      new feature
raise_stmt:      new feature
break_stmt:      allowed syntactically, but not semantically
contintue_stmt:  likewise
import_stmt:     allowed, but nearly useless
                 would have the side effect of importing the module,
                 but you could not get at the imported module
global_stmt:     allowed, but useless
                 you can't use the global variable
exec_stmt:       new feature

To summarize, you can only use print, raise, yield, and exec in a
meaningful way. Why would I want to have any of these in a lambda
expression?

Regards,
Martin



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jun  4 10:15:31 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 10:15:31 -0400
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054726447.7340.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbkuu3$t24$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1054726447.7340.python-list at python.org>,
Gerrit Holl  <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
>
>Smalltalk isn't practical. 

That's not quite true.  I know plenty of Smalltalk programmers who would
disagree, and Squeak is making some inroads.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net  Mon Jun 16 18:14:55 2003
From: nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net (Kevin Carlson)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:14:55 -0400
Subject: Formatters, Writers, Parsers...
Message-ID: <V9rHa.2665$FR4.728@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com>

I am trying to write a module that will convert HTML into formatted 
text.  I have seen numerous examples in the archives and in the Python
Cookbook about stripping out HTML tags which all seem to work fine.

However, what I need to do is format the text according to the tags that 
the HTML contains.  In particular, I need to increase the indentation 
about 10 characters for each <td> tag that is read.  I have been 
approaching this as follows:


------- Begin code -----------
class TextParser(htmllib.HTMLParser) :

   def __init__(self, fmtr, verbose=0) :
     htmllib.HTMLParser.__init__(self, fmtr, verbose)
     self.fmtr = fmtr
     self.insideTR = 0
     self.currentMargin = 0

   def start_tr(self, attrs) :
     self.insideTR = 1

   def end_tr(self) :
     self.insideTR = 0
     self.fmtr.end_paragraph(1)

   def start_td(self, attrs) :
     self.currentMargin = self.currentMargin + 10
     self.fmtr.push_margin(self.currentMargin)

   def end_td(self) :
     pass

def parseText(data) :
   parser = TextParser(
              formatter.AbstractFormatter(formatter.DumbWriter()))
   parser.feed(data)

------- End code ---------


I guess I don't understand formatters because I am getting the exact 
same results as if don't issue any of the calls to the formatter.

Can anyone shed some light on what I am doing wrong?

Thanks,

Kevin






From creedy at mitretek.org  Wed Jun 11 15:47:03 2003
From: creedy at mitretek.org (Chris Reedy)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:47:03 -0400
Subject: UTF-16 encoding line breaks?
In-Reply-To: <m31xy031mg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <3ee72262$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <m31xy031mg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3ee7885a_6@corp.newsgroups.com>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> "Richard" <richardd at hmgcc.gov.uk> writes:
> 
> 
>>I have a script which uses the .encode('UTF-16') function to encode a string
>>into UTF-16. However I am having difficulties in putting line breaks into
>>that string. \n is what I normally use but does not appear to become valid
>>UTF-16 once encoded.
> 
> 
> Can you demonstrate that? It works fine for me.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin

Here's an example that, if it's not an outright error, at least confuses me:

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
 >>> import codecs
 >>> testfile = codecs.open('testfile.txt', mode='wb', encoding='utf16')
 >>> testfile.write('abc\r\ndef\r\n')
 >>> testfile.close()
 >>> testfile = codecs.open('testfile.txt', encoding='utf16')
 >>> testfile.read(100)
u'abc\r\ndef\r\n'
 >>> testfile.close()

Everything's ok so far.

 >>> testfile = codecs.open('testfile.txt', encoding='utf16')
 >>> testfile.readlines()
[u'abc\r\n', u'def\r\n']
 >>> testfile.close()

That looks fine.

 >>> testfile = codecs.open('testfile.txt', encoding='utf16')
 >>> testfile.readline()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#27>", line 1, in ?
     testfile.readline()
   File "C:\DD\Python\lib\codecs.py", line 330, in readline
     return self.reader.readline(size)
   File "C:\DD\Python\lib\codecs.py", line 252, in readline
     return self.decode(line, self.errors)[0]
UnicodeError: UTF-16 decoding error: truncated data
 >>>

Huh?

   All explanations gratefully appreciated, Chris



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From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jun 23 08:47:18 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 05:47:18 -0700
Subject: Getting a list of an object's methods?
References: <Xns93A2DFFF69BDCfreddiethescaryeleph@203.10.110.105> <bd498r$o0ehq$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de> <yfsk7be5e5f.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <bd4sst$pcteb$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de> <yfsel1l651p.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306230447.52460ace@posting.google.com>

Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<yfsel1l651p.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk>...
> > For example, 'mro' isn't in int's dir(), although it is (the name of) a
> > method of type and in type's __dict__.
> 
> Indeed, so this looks like a bug to that should be filed (unless `mro` somehow
> doesn't qualify as a 'member' -- I can't see why, but this is something I
> leave to the wizards).
> 
> If these omissions turn out to be important of the OP's desired application,
> then he'll indeed need to consider a further alternative (maybe based upon the
> union of `inspect.getmembers` and the `__dict__.keys()`, where the latter are
> available).
> 
> Anyway, this example highlights a problem I'm getting increasingly concerned
> about, namely the erosion of python's metaprogramming capabilities. I don't
> think "What methods does this object have?" is a question that only a python
> wizard should be able to ask and receive a well-defined answer.
> 
> 'as

The problem with .mro() is that it is a method of the metaclass
'type':

>>> dir(type)
['__base__', '__bases__', '__basicsize__', '__call__', '__class__',
'__cmp__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__dictoffset__', '__doc__',
'__flags__', '__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__',
'__itemsize__', '__module__', '__mro__', '__name__', '__new__',
'__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__str__',
'__subclasses__', '__weakrefoffset__', 'mro']

IIRC, Tim Peters wrote in this newsgroup some months ago that 'dir'
was
designed in such a way to not report metaclass methods. The idea was
that the typical user doesn't want too much information. Therefore
'dir'
is not meant to be exaustive:

>>> help(dir)
Help on built-in function dir:

dir(...)
    dir([object]) -> list of strings
    
    Return an alphabetized list of names comprising (some of) the
attributes
                                                     ^^^^^^^^
    of the given object, and of attributes reachable from it:

Nevertheless, one may disagree with this attitude, and I think that if
enough users protest enough, we may get a more powerful 'dir' in the
future.

                                         Michele



From rudy.schockaert at pandora.be  Sun Jun  1 15:52:45 2003
From: rudy.schockaert at pandora.be (Rudy Schockaert)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 19:52:45 GMT
Subject: Some pythonic advice needed
In-Reply-To: <2946028.1054494609@dbforums.com>
References: <EOmCa.31502$1u5.2321@afrodite.telenet-ops.be> <2946028.1054494609@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <hQsCa.32080$1u5.2323@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>


> It's not clear to me how you define the "expected" answer. Would you say
> "iste" would suppose to return "die" or "dat"? (I speak Dutch and I know
> they mean the same, so none is better or worse than the other). Perhaps
> you should consider a different approach, e.g. allow to give more than
> one answer and point it out on-screen when not all possibilities have
> been exhausted. 

Every day she gets about 10 new words to learn. Some of these words are 
already in the list from previous lessons. The new words are the 
"expected" answers. The other meaning are not wrong, but those are 
already rehearsed.

I have received lot's of valuable inputs. Thank you all.




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Tue Jun 24 13:49:44 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:49:44 -0400
Subject: newbie: good reasons for learning Python?
References: <3ef37a28$0$306$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <ZVLIa.468$hY1.37549@news20.bellglobal.com> <o1NIa.611$hY1.47591@news20.bellglobal.com> <JcI9+ks/KLAC089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <I90Ka.2819$OE2.396122@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Mel Wilson" <mwilson at the-wire.com> wrote in message
news:JcI9+ks/KLAC089yn at the-wire.com...
>    Inspiring.  But after I'd improved on it, I went to the
> web site and found out I'd only recreated the programs you
> were writing an alternative to.  Oh well.

Actually, I wasn't trying to make an alternative to that code, I was just
trying to write something similar to the Ruby version I showed.
But, while we're here:

# version of Fredrik Lundh's code at
# http://99-bottles-of-beer.ls-la.net/p.html#Python
# using dict.get() rather than try/except
verse = """
%(b1)s on the wall, %(b1)s,
take one down, pass it around,
%(b0)s on the wall.
"""

def bottle(n):
    return {0: "no more bottles",
                1: "1 bottle"}.get(n, "%d bottles"%n) + " of beer"

for i in range(99, 0, -1):
    b1, b0 = bottle(i), bottle(i-1)
    print verse % locals()





From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Sun Jun 22 01:16:41 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 05:16:41 GMT
Subject: Steaming PDF from Python Script to IE
References: <4b46139c.0306211630.1aeb3ffa@posting.google.com> <3ef50e78@nntp>
Message-ID: <Xns93A249FD8260CJanC@213.118.38.73>

Stephen Thorne <stephen at thorne.id.au> schreef:

> Also windows likes \r\n for CRLF, whereas you were just sending LF
> (which is sufficient for unixes). 

This has nothing to do with Windows vs. unix, the HTTP standard defines 
CRLF as the only valid EOL marker for everything except the body.


>From RFC-2616 "Hypertext Transfer Protocol -- HTTP/1.1":

| 2.2 Basic Rules
| 
| [...]
|    HTTP/1.1 defines the sequence CR LF as the end-of-line marker for all
|    protocol elements except the entity-body (see appendix 19.3 for
|    tolerant applications). The end-of-line marker within an entity-body
|    is defined by its associated media type, as described in section 3.7.

Appendix 19.3 recommends tolerance for broken applications that send only 
LF as EOF-marker.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jun  5 12:29:12 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 16:29:12 GMT
Subject: Reading in NT Variables / Login Script
References: <52acbff9.0306040157.4bbaff6b@posting.google.com> <MPG.1947a861dc883f29989680@news2.atlantic.net> <52acbff9.0306050045.16f5655f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbnr4o$c51$0@216.39.172.122>

On 5 Jun 2003 01:45:13 -0700, tony at pc-tony.com (Tony) wrote:

>c42 <nospam at nospam.net> wrote in message news:<MPG.1947a861dc883f29989680 at news2.atlantic.net>...
>> What variables are you looking for?
>> 
>%USERNAME% in particualr.  But others would be useful.
>
os.environ acts like a case-insensitive dictionary of environment variables

 >>> import os
 >>> os.environ.get('username', '(username unknown)')
 'bokr'
 >>> os.environ['username']
 'bokr'
 >>> os.environ['USERNAME']
 'bokr'
 >>> os.environ.get('USERNAME', '(username unknown)')
 'bokr'
 >>> os.environ['USERNAME']
 'bokr'
 >>> os.environ['PATHEXT']
 '.COM;.EXE;.BAT;.CMD'
 >>> os.environ['prompt']
 '[$T$H$H$H$H$H$H] $P$G'
 >>> os.environ['FOO']
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "D:\python22\lib\os.py", line 379, in __getitem__
     return self.data[key.upper()]
 KeyError: FOO

(You can see how the case-insensitivity came about)

Using .get avoids an exception if the environment variable is not defined:

 >>> os.environ.get('foo', "default doesn't have to be a string".split())
 ['default', "doesn't", 'have', 'to', 'be', 'a', 'string']

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 19 11:44:30 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:44:30 +0100
Subject: cgi getlist() problem (my first python program)
References: <3EF1CFC0.2010803@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3EF1DA5E.AC6C4F68@hotmail.com>

Gobo Borz wrote:

> This is my first Python program, and I'm having problems with  cgi
> getlist() skipping values in a multi-row html form.

> When I use getlist() to
> get the field values, it skips empty fields. Thus, phone[4], for
> example, may  turn out to be in a different row than name[4],
> depending on which fields the user has left blank.

This is as it should be, according to the HTML 4.01 spec.

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#submit-format

The relevant section is "17.13.2 Successful Controls", which says

"A successful control is "valid" for submission. Every successful
control has its control name paired with its current value as part of
the submitted form data set. A successful control must be defined
within a FORM element and must have a control name."

and later in the same section

"If a control doesn't have a current value when the form is submitted,
user agents are not required to treat it as a successful control"

So different behaviour is to be expected from different browsers. You
should test submitting your form from different browsers.

> Even if I force a space in the field with javascript on the client
> side, the python FOR loop skips the blank values. 

Hmm, this is odd. 

Once any value is placed in a form field, even
invisible whitespace, it should then be considered a "successful
control". Are you sure that your javascript is working here? One
way to test is to see what happens in your CGI script when you 
*manually* enter a space into what would otherwise be empty fields.

When you do this, does it behave in the same way as when you fill the
empty fields from javascript?

> I hope I'm not missing something obvious. It seems like this would
> be a common problem for anyone coding a multi-row html form.

Unfortunately, there is no way for the cgi module to know how many
name=value pairs are *supposed* to be in a list of field values: the
browser is only obliged to transmit fields that are "successful".

One way to approach the problem is by numbering the fields in your
HTML form, like so

<form>
  <td>
    <input name="name1">
    <input name="phone1">
  </td>
  <td>
    <input name="name2">
    <input name="phone2">
  </td>
</form>

Should be easy enough to do if you're generating your form from the cgi
script itself. If you're using a static form, just add the numbers in
by hand.

> Thanks for your help,

If none of this helps, and you need to post again, it is always
helpful to post snippets of code from your script. That way people can
test your code by running it as well as just looking at it. But do try
to reduce the problem to its minimal representation (the process of
which often helps you to solve the problem :-)

HTH,

--
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Fri Jun 13 02:49:03 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 06:49:03 GMT
Subject: python2.3/sockets/urllib2/timeout
References: <bc9emf$ctd$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <zteGa.284$5Z6.160@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

> according to the documentation, sockets now have a timeout value in python
> 2.3. But does urllib2 make use of it? Is there way to specifiy this value
> for urllib2?

Not directly, not yet.
I'm currently looking at PEP 42 feature request to put timeout
methods in the high level net modules.

In the meantime, socket does provide (starting in Py2.3) a function
to set a default timeout that will apply to all callers including urllib2.


Raymond Hettinger





From gherron at islandtraining.com  Wed Jun 11 19:35:14 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:35:14 -0700
Subject: vector subscripts in Python?
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0306111512.7701dbbc@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0306111512.7701dbbc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200306111635.15528.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Wednesday 11 June 2003 04:12 pm, beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> Does Python have the equivalent of "vector subscripts" of Fortran 95?
> The code below illustrates what I am looking for -- with better syntax.
>
> def subscript(xx,ii):
>     # return the elements in xx subscripted by ii
>     y = []
>     for i in ii: y.append(xx[i])
>     return y
>
> ii = [0,2]
> xx = [1,4,9]
> print subscript(xx,ii) # returns [1, 9]; in F95, "print*,xx(ii)" is
> analogous

List comprehension (as it's called) lets you do things like this,
although it's much more general and powerful than your request.

>>> ii = [0,2]
>>> xx =  [1,4,9]
>>> print [xx[i] for i in ii]
[1, 9]
>>>

See the following manual section:
  
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node7.html#SECTION007140000000000000000

Gary Herron







From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Mon Jun  2 15:37:13 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:37:13 -0500 
Subject: Examples of descriptors?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304F0571D@mail.hebmex.com>

> 
> However, I discovered few weeks ago that under 2.3b
> 
> >>> class M(type): pass
> >>> object.__setattr__(M,'x',1)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: can't apply this __setattr__ to type object
> 
> (this broke one program of fine; BTW, I haven't seen this documented
> in http://www.python.org/2.3/highlights.html)
> 
> The problem goes away if I use type.__setattr__:
> 
> >>> type.__setattr__(M,'x',1)
> >>> M.x
> 1
> 
> My question is: what's the rationale for the change ? It is simply
> a performance hack or there was some subtle bug with the previous
> model ?
> 
> Just curious,
>

I believe there was a subtle bug there.  In the previous model,
you could do (such as I did once) something like this (for all
those of you who want a "transitive" list.sort() , which
returns self):

Python 2.2 (#28, Dec 21 2001, 12:21:22) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> def Sort(self, __func=list.sort):
	__func(self)
	return self

>>> L = [9,7,4,2,6,7,8,3]
>>> type(L),L
(<type 'list'>, [9, 7, 4, 2, 6, 7, 8, 3])
>>> L.sort()
>>> type(L),L
(<type 'list'>, [2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 7, 8, 9])
>>> 
>>> ## Now some magic.
>>> 
>>> list.sort = Sort
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#12>", line 1, in ?
    list.sort = Sort
TypeError: can't set attributes of built-in/extension type 'list'
>>> 
>>> object.__setattr__(list, "sort", Sort)
>>> 
>>> # ta-daa
>>> 
>>> L.sort()
[2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 7, 8, 9]
>>> 

In short, object.__setattr__() allowed you to overwrite attributes
in the basic builtin types.  Here I did something quite harmless,
redefine list.sort() in terms of itself so that it returns the
same instance (buggy though, you can't pass the comparison function
anymore).

But, what if someone overrode some other indispensable function
or method, which wrecked some evi1 havock?  So, Guido took the
responsability of changing the __setattr__ method that get's
called depending if you're calling it for a type or for some
other kind of object.

I don't have an URL to the thread, but it was interesting
enough.

-gca
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jun 18 15:30:55 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 15:30:55 -0400
Subject: How to permanently remove __import__?
References: <DVKHa.5891$111.3270@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3EF08043.F5692E2F@engcorp.com> <xA%Ha.14056$111.12652@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3EF09517.F63FBE2E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bcqelf$1jk$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3EF09517.F63FBE2E at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>
>Undef Linux 

Ewww!  That's *nasty*.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From mmillikan at vfa.com  Mon Jun 23 09:35:38 2003
From: mmillikan at vfa.com (mmillikan at vfa.com)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 09:35:38 -0400
Subject: py2exe and dynamic service installation ?
References: <bd6672$dhe$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3ci0syqd.fsf@vfa.com>

"Harald Schneider" <h_schneider at marketmix.com> writes:

> Hi,
> 
> I used py2exe to create a NT service, which works flawlessly. Now the same
> application needs to be installed multiple times on the same machine. For
> this I need to pass _svc_name_ and _svc_display_name_ at runtime as command
> line parameters after -install.
> 
> But no matter what I do, if I compile the application with py2exe it falls
> back to the first assignment of _svc_name_ in the class header - it just
> ignores the passed command line paramters and also any assignment to
> _svc_name_ etc in the class header or the __init part ...
> 
> Is there a way to assign these varibales dynamically before the service is
> created ?
> 
> All the best,
> Harald

The attached diff to py2exe v.0.3.4 run_svc.c adds the following optional
command line args to the users exe file:

-service <desired name>
-display <display name>
-depends <pipe|separated|dependencies>
-user    <account name>
-pass    <password>
-auto    no param, sets service to autostart

Rebuild the py2exe interpreters by running 'python setup.py build' in
the py2exe directory.

This is only lightly tested and not yet used in production.

I also have a run_svc_w.c which provides a consoleless analog to
run_w.c (usefull for avoiding 'flashing window syndrome' when bundling
exe's for use within an installer such as NSIS or Inno Setup).

Feedback welcome.

Mark Millikan

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From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jun 14 20:49:39 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 00:49:39 GMT
Subject: comprehending comprehensions
References: <roy-9EE81E.13521714062003@reader1.panix.com> <3EEBA5C9.3090200@wanadoo.es>
Message-ID: <bcgfr3$am6$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:46:55 GMT, Maurix <maurix78_remove_this_ at wanadoo.es> wrote:

>Hi, as you are speaking of comprehensions, functional languages
>and Haskell; i want to propose a game to the group:
>Let's make some examples to see how long is python compared
>with Haskell.
>I've make my try, writing the famous example of qsort in Haskell
>in a "functional" python:
>
>Haskell:
>
>qsort []     = []
>qsort (x:xs) = qsort elts_lt_x ++ [x] ++ qsort elts_greq_x
>		 where
>		   elts_lt_x   = [y | y <- xs, y < x]
>		   elts_greq_x = [y | y <- xs, y >= x]
>
>
>Python:
>
>def qsort(list) :
>    if len(list)<=1 : return list
>    x,xs=list[0],list[1:]
>    elts_lt_x=[y for y in xs if y < x]
>    elts_greq_x=[y for y in xs if y >= x]
>    return qsort(elts_lt_x)+[x]+qsort(elts_greq_x)
>
>6 lines vs 5 lines, not bad!
>Someting can do it better??
You can take a line out by taking advantage of short circuit logic and
the fact that list.append returns None:
(it breaks the lookalike pattern though ;-)

def qsort(seq) :  # practically untested
    if len(seq)<=1 : return seq
    x,xs,elts_greq_x = seq[0],seq[1:],[]
    elts_lt_x=[y for y in xs if y < x or elts_greq_x.append(y)] #(append => None)
    return qsort(elts_lt_x)+[x]+qsort(elts_greq_x)

BTW, 'list' is a builtin, so it's not a good choice for a parameter name.
>
>I have a question too, there something in haskell that is
>difficult to "copy" with python?
>
>I like haskell for his math-style but have really something more?
Haskell and ML (OCAML?) are both round tuits as yet for me.
Which is tastiest?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Jun  5 19:50:32 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:50:32 -0600
Subject: proxy to monitor http requests
References: <bbnmmu$mgv$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bboko8$1e8$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Achim Domma:
> I want to analyze how differnet soap libs build their xml messages. To do
> this I want to put a proxy between my calling code and the server to
display
> the requests and responses.

You might also consider a packet sniffer like ethereal, at
  http://www.ethereal.com/
With it you can watch all traffic going from one machine to the other
using a given port, and you don't need any sort of proxy.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From jack at performancedrivers.com  Thu Jun 26 14:35:59 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 14:35:59 -0400
Subject: lists and tuples
In-Reply-To: <20030626131817.GA4097@nl.linux.org>; from gerrit@nl.linux.org on Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 03:18:17PM +0200
References: <20030626131817.GA4097@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <20030626143559.C1122@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 03:18:17PM +0200, Gerrit Holl wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> one of the things I have never understood in Python was why tuples
> exist. There is a FAQ entry about this:
> 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq06.015.htp
> 
> This says:
> > This is done so that tuples can be immutable while lists are mutable.
> >
> > Immutable tuples are useful in situations where you need to pass a few items to a function and don't want the function to modify the tuple; for example,
> >
> >    point1 = (120, 140)
> >    point2 = (200, 300)
> >    record(point1, point2)
> >    draw(point1, point2)
> >
> > You don't want to have to think about what would happen if record() changed the coordinates -- it can't, because the tuples are immutable.

Check the python-dev archives for something like 'tuples vs lists'

The main difference is conceptual and not technical (although there are
technical differences too).  Lists are meant to hold a flexible array
of homogeneous data, a list of numbers or Foos.  Tuples are meant as structs,
they hold related heterogeneous data like a record in a database.

tuple/
('jane', 'doe', 30) # first/last/age

list/
[('jane', 'doe', 30), ('john', 'smith', 21)] # list of tuples

so using tuples as dictionaries keys makes sense, you are indexing on a
unique set (in this case name & age).  Indexing people makes a lot of sense,
indexing on a list of people makes less sense.

That's the short version, browse the archives for a much longer discussion.
[and do that _before_ posting to this one *wink*]

-jack




From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Jun  5 01:09:32 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 07:09:32 +0200
Subject: 64 bit python
References: <701f25e6.0306040749.d649f7f@posting.google.com> <m3n0gxlli8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bblki1$80r$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <m3k7c1156b.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"E. McKay Hyde" <hyde at math.umn.edu> writes:

> So, it appears that either LONG_BIT is defined incorrectly,
> SIZEOF_LONG is defined incorrectly or LONG_BIT is not supposed to
> equal 8 * SIZEOF_LONG in the 64-bit case.  Do you know which it is?

I would be very much surprised if LONG_BIT doesn't equal
8*SIZEOF_LONG; this would suggest that your machine does not have
8-bit words, which I doubt.

So either LONG_BIT or SIZEOF_LONG is incorrect. Can you tell the
values for either #define?

Notice that this problem is not generic for 64-bit systems, as there
are actual 64-bit systems which do get their defines right (e.g. Sparc
Solaris 64-bit, or Tru64). So it would be more a problem specific to
your system, or your configuration. For example, which compiler did
you use during configure?

Regards,
Martin




From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun  3 22:42:16 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 14:42:16 +1200
Subject: PySerial rereads its own data
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054662920.14931.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1054592105.28065.python-list@python.org>	 <3EDBE18C.2C58B42E@engcorp.com> <mailman.1054662920.14931.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbjl2p$a1ndg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Cliff Wells wrote:
>>>My question is this:  why do I get back the data I just wrote?  More to
>>>the point, how do I stop it?

I missed your original post, so this is just a guess, but
are you by any chance trying to use the same file object
to both read and write the serial port?

I made that mistake once in C, and I got exactly that
symptom. It seems that stdio gets its buffering in a
knot if you try to do that.

If that's the problem, the solution is to open the
serial device twice, once for reading and once for
writing, e.g.

   fin  = open("/dev/ttyS0", "r") # read from this one
   fout = open("/dev/ttyS0", "w") # write to this one

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jun  5 15:08:03 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:08:03 -0500
Subject: (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7F3A@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
References: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7F3A@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
Message-ID: <16095.38163.617627.495637@montanaro.dyndns.org>

 
    Mark> i have a date, say as a string 26Nov2002 and i want to convert it
    Mark> to a string 20021126.

Python has a time module with strptime (parse) and strftime (format)
functions.

>>> import time
>>> t = time.strptime("26Nov2002", "%d%b%Y")  
>>> t
(2002, 11, 26, 0, 0, 0, 1, 330, -1)
>>> time.strftime("%Y%m%d", t)
'20021126'

Skip




From troy at gci.net  Fri Jun  6 15:59:40 2003
From: troy at gci.net (Troy Melhase)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:59:40 -0800
Subject: XMLRPC Authentication
References: <3EE0B8B8.6070602@optonline.com> <mailman.1054915493.18139.python-list@python.org> <ve1s0s46f50efc@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ve1sm875rti28a@corp.supernews.com>

Oh dear Lord please ignore me.  My parser is broken this morning.  Of course
my previous post does nothing to answer your question.  Ten thousand
apologies.

-troy




From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Mon Jun  2 01:59:46 2003
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: 02 Jun 2003 11:29:46 +0530
Subject: Python IO performance?
References: <m33civ37b2.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <mailman.1054370388.6981.python-list@python.org> <m3k7c61ktg.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <38ec68a6.0306012147.1ae26ac5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ousmqtkoj1.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>

>>>>> "Asun" == Asun Friere <afriere at yahoo.co.uk> writes:

> Ganesan R <rganesan at myrealbox.com> wrote in message news:<m3k7c61ktg.fsf at localhost.localdomain>...
>> I agree that this case favors perl. It's just that I am used to writing
>> quick hacks like this for text processing in perl. After learning python
>> I've been resisting my impulse to code them in perl and use python 
>> instead.

> Why?!  

Simple, to learn Python! I need to use Python in everyday use to learn the
language. Once I have learned the language reasonably well, I'll naturally
use the tool that fits the job :-).

> For quick hacks and simple text processing I still reach for Perl,
> especially if the task involves regexps.  I think this Perl vs Python
> loyalty bit is just a little silly, you know horses for courses and all.

Hey, there's no Perl vs Python loyalty bit here. I like both Perl and
Python; but to get to know a language better you do need to do some real
life coding in that language. And for me, real life coding includes every
day scripts for text processing.

> Besides, it doesn't hurt to do just a little bit of coding in some of the
> other languages within your repetoire so that you don't find yourself
> thinking, (as I have done on occasion), hmm now does the tilde come before
> the equals sign or after it ...

Considering that I regularly develop in C, C++, Java, Perl, Python and sh,
and the fact that I am also learning C# in my spare time, and the fact that
I've also dabbled into ruby and lua, I think we're in violent agreement :-).

Ganesan

-- 
Ganesan R (rganesan at debian dot org) | http://www.debian.org/~rganesan/
1024D/5D8C12EA, fingerprint F361 84F1 8D82 32E7 1832  6798 15E0 02BA 5D8C 12EA



From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 11 11:37:19 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 15:37:19 GMT
Subject: PEP318: property as decoration
References: <bc568h$5t4$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <DIuFa.5725$Gm4.690616@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <bc7ibf$fjv$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:DIuFa.5725$Gm4.690616 at news20.bellglobal.com...
>  def propertythunk():
>       def fget(self):
>            return self._foo
>       def fset(self, value):
>            self._foo = value
>       def fdel(self):
>            del self._foo
>       fdoc = "foo"
>       return fget, fset, fdel, fdoc



After thinking about this for a bit I realized that you could do the
following to define properties:

class MyClass(object):
        def __init__(self):
                self._foo = "foo"
                self._bar = "bar"

        def foo():
                def fget(self):
                        return self._foo
                def fset(self, value):
                        self._foo = value
                def fdel(self):
                        del self._foo
                fdoc = "foo"
                return fget, fset, fdel, fdoc
        foo = property(*foo())

        def bar():
                "a readonly property"
                def fget(self):
                        return self._bar
                return fget,     # the trailing comma is required here
        bar = property(*bar())

x = MyClass()
print x.foo
x.foo = "changed"
print x.foo
print x.bar


This may seem obvious, but it hadn't occured to me before. Using this
approach addresses the concern I raised regarding the cluttering of the
class scope with expendable methods, e.g., getfoo, setfoo, delfoo. Now,
there is only foo, which is very nice.

For bar, which only defines a get method, this approach seems excessive -
why not just make getbar and be done with it? You could. I just like the
fact that after I've made my bar property, there are no superfluous method
lying around inside MyClass.

Anyway...I found this interesting, so I thought someone else might enjoy it
as well.






From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Jun 24 04:52:19 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:52:19 +0200
Subject: 1== 1 is False?
In-Reply-To: <4b66f6d2.0306240034.23b264@posting.google.com>
References: <20030620160734.2ba89f30.delphiro@zonnet.nl> <mailman.1056119630.21165.python-list@python.org> <4b66f6d2.0306240034.23b264@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF81143.9070402@mxm.dk>

Thomas N?cker wrote:

> What do i have to do, if i need "more" exactness? 
> I have for example the problem with the representation of 2.3 or 2.7:
> 
>>>>2.3
> 
> 2.2999999999999998
> 
>>>>2.7
> 
> 2.7000000000000002
> This is a really strange behaviour!


No it is not. Furthermore it is well documented.

I searched Google for: "python floating point precision"

Second result has the title:

B. Floating Point Arithmetic: Issues and Limitations
http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node14.html


regards Max M




From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Wed Jun  4 10:00:06 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 16:00:06 +0200
Subject: a wierd parameter passing behavior
References: <5ca99eab.0306040529.2d6f85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbku1b$93oj7$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Torvo Sollazzo wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I found a strange parameter passing behavior in Python (v. 2.2.2).
> Look at this piece of code:

[cut]
>     l += [3]

This is like l.append()

>     l = l + [3]

l + [3] creates a new list

I think it is better coding style to use append() than the
plus operator on lists. 

 thomas




From tylere at hotpop.com  Mon Jun 23 23:03:32 2003
From: tylere at hotpop.com (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 03:03:32 GMT
Subject: CGI and Unicode
References: <545cb8c2.0306231007.4a3c07a2@posting.google.com> <2c60a528.0306231449.3f270fd2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.24.03.03.06.908256@hotpop.com>

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:49:42 -0700, Andrew Clover wrote:


> Plug: you might want to look at:
> 
>   http://www.doxdesk.com/software/py/form.html

Oh, wow!

Wish I'd known about *that* years ago.





From richardd at hmgcc.gov.uk  Tue Jun  3 08:37:58 2003
From: richardd at hmgcc.gov.uk (Richard)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:37:58 +0100
Subject: Passing data into my StreamRequestHandler?
Message-ID: <3edc96a6$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>

Hi,

I have a TCP Server class using SocketServer.TCPServer( ) and a handler
class which inherits from SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler. When an
incoming connection is made, the overridden handle( ) function gets called
which is fine, however can anyone tell me how I go about passing data into
the handler object from my server object?

Here is my code:

import SocketServer

class ConnectionEndpointHandler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler):

 def handle(self):
  print "Connected!"

class sServer:

 m_InAddress = []
 m_OutAddress = []

 def __init__(self, inAddress):
  self.m_InAddress = inAddress

 def start(self):
  m_Server = SocketServer.TCPServer((self.m_InAddress[0],
int(self.m_InAddress[1])), ConnectionEndpointHandler)
  m_Server.serve_forever()

Also, as it currently stands (I have another file which just creates an
instance of my sServer, provides the inAddress and calls start( ) ) this
just continually runs, printing 'Connected' every time I make a connection
to it. I know that serve_forever( ) does this, but can anyone tell me how I
interrupt this to exit the program? I am running on Win2K and CTRL-C doesn't
seem to work, meaning I am forced to close down the console window.

TIA

Richard






From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sat Jun 28 09:39:06 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 15:39:06 +0200
Subject: lists and tuples
In-Reply-To: <m2el1gvs9o.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <20030626131817.GA4097@nl.linux.org> <m2el1gvs9o.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <20030628133906.GA3705@nl.linux.org>

John Hunter wrote:
>     Gerrit> I don't understand. I really don't understand.
> 
> For me, the most important distinction is that because lists are
> mutable, they cannot be used as keys in a dictionary.

This is probably a basic question, but I can't see why mutable
objects can't be used as dictionairy keys. Why would this be
impossible:

  0 >>> d = {}
  1 >>> l = []
  2 >>> d[l] = "foo"
  3 >>> d
{[]: 'foo'}
  4 >>> l.append("bar")
  5 >>> l
['bar']
  6 >>> d
{['bar']: 'foo'}

What is the problem of doing this?

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
59. If any man, without the knowledge of the owner of a garden, fell a
tree in a garden he shall pay half a mina in money.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Jun 10 10:26:02 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:26:02 +0200
Subject: Building Python
References: <f3ff61d9.0306100527.63417577@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bc4pq1$elc4c$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Guy wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I'm trying to build python on a sparc "Sun Microsystems Inc. SunOS
> 5.5.1". I have already built python-2.2.2 on another machine which
> seems to work well.
> 
> I've tried both python-2.2.2 and python-2.2.3 on the sparc both come
> up with the same error. Which can be seen below.
> 
> In file included from Python/thread_pthread.h:9,
>                  from Python/thread.c:113:
> /usr/include/pthread.h:238: parse error before `destructor'
> /usr/include/pthread.h:238: parse error before `)'
> make: *** [Python/thread.o] Error 1
> 
> Can any one make any suggestions about a fix.

Please post the lines before the parse error.

Which compiler do you use?

  thomas



From ed at membled.com  Sun Jun  8 06:26:23 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 08 Jun 2003 11:26:23 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m37k7xxefu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <l1he70hnlc.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) writes:

>>Elsewhere in this thread I proposed using a simple_stmt as the body of
>>a lambda.  Still, if you say there has been years of discussion I am
>>not so foolish as to think I've found the answer.
>
>Then your examples don't follow your proposal. A simple_stmt ends with
>a NEWLINE,

Are you sure?  This is an excerpt from
<http://python.org/doc/current/ref/grammar.txt>:

>simple_stmt ::= expression_stmt
>                | assert_stmt
>                | assignment_stmt
>                | augmented_assignment_stmt
>                | pass_stmt
>                | del_stmt
>                | print_stmt
>                | return_stmt
>                | yield_stmt
>                | raise_stmt
>                | break_stmt
>                | continue_stmt
>                | import_stmt
>                | global_stmt
>                | exec_stmt
>
>expression_stmt ::= 
>             expression_list

and elsewhere,

>expression_list ::= 
>             expression ( "," expression )* [","]

So just picking expression_stmt as an example, since it happens to be
the first in the list, I don't see anything indicating that it ends in
a newline.  Presumably the other cases for simple_stmt such as
assert_stmt and assignment_stmt do not end with a newline either.

On the other hand, it seems clear that the places which mention
simple_stmt then go on to add a newline:

>stmt_list ::= 
>             simple_stmt (";" simple_stmt)* [";"]

>statement ::= 
>             stmt_list NEWLINE | compound_stmt

So I don't see why a rule that lets lambda contain a simple_stmt would
mean having to end it with a newline.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From lorenzo at mysurname.net  Sat Jun 14 15:06:59 2003
From: lorenzo at mysurname.net (Lorenzo Bolognini)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 19:06:59 GMT
Subject: wxPython download
References: <UjGGa.89780$pR3.1904020@news1.tin.it> <3EEB440F.49A1D3C2@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <nnKGa.90695$pR3.1925100@news1.tin.it>

Thanks to all... I've contacted Robin Dunn and he told me to click on one of
those white icons in the download column and it worked! Nontheless i find it
a strange behaviour since all other sw on sf.net work as usual by just
selecting the mirror and a download dialog appears! ;-)

Lorenzo





From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jun 19 00:50:52 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:50:52 +1200
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <bcre27$mci8i$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

David Abrahams wrote:
> I don't have any first-hand experience, but the experience of friends
> of mine who have used Haskell is that it can be exceedingly difficult
> to locate the source of a type error when it does occur, since the
> inference engine may propagate the "wrong" type back much further than
> the source of the error.

I played with HUGS intensively for a while some time back,
and I can attest that this is indeed a problem. I was led
to the conclusion that the only way to retain my sanity
was to provide an explicit type declaration for every
function.

This has two benefits -- it helps the compiler catch
type errors early enough to actually give you a useful
error message, and it helps to document the code.

But if you're doing that, you don't get much benefit
from type inference, raising the question of whether it's
worth the effort of designing a compiler that can do it
at all.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Jun  7 09:43:30 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:43:30 +0100
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01>
Message-ID: <bbsq5k$r9j$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Rogue9" <rogue9 at ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:3ee1e6f1 at shknews01...
> Pardon me but could anyone enlighten me if python2.2 has a math function
> to call to do factorials of integers?If not then is there a code snippet
> for doing such a thing available?I tried to write some code for this
> myself but with little success.
> Thanks
> Lol

I tend to use gmpy for factorials / combinations and such-like.  But you
could use something like...

>>> def fac(n):
...  if n == 0:
...   return 1
...  else:
...   return n * fac(n-1)
...
>>> fac(20)
2432902008176640000L
>>>

Duncan





From ed at membled.com  Tue Jun  3 17:17:14 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 03 Jun 2003 22:17:14 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054662726.12651.python-list@python.org> <3EDCE9C2.5020805@nospam.com> <bbipv6$9hs$1@ginger.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <l165nmn9np.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

Joshua Marshall <joshway_without_spam at myway.com> writes:

>>if b = 1 returns b, then why can't you say  a = (b = 1)  ?
>
>It's incorrect.  "b = 1" does not return (evaluate to) anything,
>because it's not an expression.

Is there a way to write an expression which sets b and does return
something?

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From no.spam at comcast.net  Tue Jun 10 02:19:26 2003
From: no.spam at comcast.net (BGM)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:19:26 -0400
Subject: Error checking in Python
In-Reply-To: <878ysa7rfn.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <mailman.1055190378.10420.python-list@python.org> <878ysa7rfn.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306100207500.1250-100000@linux.local>


Thanks a lot to all those who took the time to reply to my question! Your
replies have helped clarify things a little and given me some food for
thought. Coming from C, my instinct was to return error codes. On some
reflection, though, I think this is not necessarily the best idea since if
someone misunderstands your function enough to pass the "wrong" arg, then
they are likely not checking for any error codes either, in which case
after the return of the function, the program my continue merrily along,
or an exception will eventually be raised by python anyway. In the former
case, the user of the function might have an extraordinarily tough time
figuring out what is wrong.

A certain aspect of the replies interests me greatly: That if one does no
type-checking, the function lends itself to previously unforseen
generalization.... E.g. if the function were meant to multiply some
number by 2: x = x * 2 in which case that is also valid even if x is a
string! I wonder whether this phenomena is found to be useful in practice?
Does anyone know?



-------------------
Regards,
Gitonga Marete a.k.a BGM



On 10 Jun 2003, John J. Lee wrote:

> DavidW Blaschke <dwblas at yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > With all due respect to the others who have posted a
> > reply,  a very small slowdown is better than having a
> > program abort.
>
> Sigh.  That's not the point.
>
> This has been discussed *so* many times before, with universal
> acceptance amongst people who have actually listened to the arguments
> and thought about it.
>
> Google!
>
> http://www.google.com/groups?as_q=LBYL%20group%3Acomp.lang.python
> http://www.google.com/groups?as_q=EAFP%20group%3Acomp.lang.python
>
>
> > BTW type checking can be done with:
> >      if type(1) == type( var ) :
> >         type("A") ==
> >         etc.
>
> When you *do* typecheck, use isinstance(a, b), not type(a) = b.
>
>
> [...]
> > Always check for "None" or an empty string first, and
> > you have to return some sort of default error
> > indicator if the variable is empty or can not be
> > processed.
>
> Is this a troll?  Have you heard of exceptions?
>
>
> > In general, you should be able to call a function
> > without worrying about any of the consequences.  It is
> > the functions job to verify and alter when, and if
> > possible.  An old, old saying is to write code that is
> > iron-clad, meaning that it can handle almost anything
> > that is thrown at it.  Sissy functions cost much more
> > in the long run.  Good question though.  It shows that
> > you want to develop good programming habits.
>
> Well... the question of whether / when to assert invariants rather
> than raise exceptions is an interesting one, and I certainly haven't
> made up my mind.  The usual Python approach seems completely at odds
> with Meyer's way of doing things (as in Eiffel), so I've been
> surprised to see people doing that style of programming in Python.
>
>
> John
>




From mike at bindkey.com  Wed Jun 11 14:45:39 2003
From: mike at bindkey.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:45:39 -0700
Subject: Bulletin Board Message Systems
References: <3EE78F68.18700.22DBA27@localhost>
Message-ID: <bc7t73$22o$1@main.gmane.org>

"A" <printers at sendme.cz> wrote in message
news:3EE78F68.18700.22DBA27 at localhost...

> Does anyone know about
> Bulletin Board Message System(s)
> written in Python?

http://www.hotscripts.com/Python/Scripts_and_Programs/Discussion_Boards/index.html

WBR,
Mike

PS. Google is your friend ;)







From v.wehren at home.nl  Mon Jun 16 16:40:33 2003
From: v.wehren at home.nl (vincent wehren)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:40:33 +0200
Subject: Writing tkinter application with hebrew text
References: <b2b5c45f.0306160913.4579442b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bcl9eq$aio$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"Nic" <nicbar at mail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:b2b5c45f.0306160913.4579442b at posting.google.com...
> Hi there,
> I am trying to write a Tkinter application that displays the GUI in
> hebrew in Windows.
> I am using python 2.2 and the pythonwin ide. In the code, I can see
> the hebrew text but the moment the window with a label is displayed, I
> get greek characters. Can someone please tell me how to display hebrew
> in tkinter?

Bare in mind there currently is (AFAIK) no real support for bi-directional
text in Tkinter , so entering
Hebrew into your application - which you might want to do later - might
proof difficult (at best).

However, display should work fine doing something like:

from Tkinter import *
#some hebrew non-unicode string nicked from the MS website which I don't
know what it means but hopefully
#doesn't offend anybody:
hebrew = "?? ???? ?? ????????? ?????. ??? ???? ????? ??????, ?????, ???????,
??????, ????? ????."
u_hebrew = unicode(hebrew, "cp1255")
root = Tk()
label = Label(root, text = u_hebrew)
label.pack()
mainloop()

Regards,
Vincent Wehren








>
> Thanks
> /nic






From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Jun 19 17:25:32 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:25:32 GMT
Subject: Term: comparison operators?
References: <bct8a2$l3c$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <gTpIa.211040$g92.4358244@news2.tin.it>

Aahz wrote:

> What would you call the set of comparison operators that does not
> include ``==`` and ``!=``?

"Order-comparisons".


Alex




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun 16 12:11:05 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:11:05 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EEDEC19.CA5786DC@engcorp.com>

Tim Rowe wrote:
> 
> "The choice between compile time testing and run-time testing is the
> choice between the programmer finding the bugs and the customer
> finding the bugs".

Only if you don't bother to run the software before you give it
to the customer.

That's what unit and acceptance tests are for... they substitute
for the customer, and catch more bugs than you would in either
case if you relied only on compile-time testing, or only on 
customer-time testing.

-Peter



From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 14 00:39:43 2003
From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 21:39:43 -0700
Subject: Import and path problem
Message-ID: <949lev437d4ubu0mp74go0nbb4sut6tfnp@4ax.com>

I was using import in these two different styles. They worked the same
for me.

-----------------------------

import m
def foo():
    m.bar()

-----------------------------

def foo():
    import m
    m.bar()

-----------------------------

Problem arise when I start the script from an arbitrary directory. It
is easy enough for me to chdir() back to the script directory

    pathname = os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0])
    abspath = os.path.abspath(pathname)
    os.chdir(abspath)

However I find that the first style of import works alright. While the
second style of import give this error

    ImportError: No module named m

It there a semantic difference on where you import? Why does the
second one fails?

Also it only fails for user modules. System modules are OK.

Wai yip





From txo at cs.nott.ac.uk  Thu Jun 12 09:32:19 2003
From: txo at cs.nott.ac.uk (Turhan Ozen)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:32:19 +0100
Subject: copy a class
Message-ID: <3EE880E3.6000904@cs.nott.ac.uk>

I get an error:

TypeError: can't pickle function objects
.
.
.
57: copy_reg.py:raise TypeError, " can't pickle %s objects" % base.__name__

 I am making a copy of a class instance so that the original instance is 
not changed when I use it in some operations. But one attribute of this 
class is a reference to a function. Is this a problem? Could you please 
recommend me a solution?

Thank you,
Turhan

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From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 10 23:04:12 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:04:12 +1200
Subject: Modules with __getattr__ (Re: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception
 Instantiation)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055287253.23148.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1055139135.30925.python-list@python.org> <6qptlnux3w.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055177065.4464.python-list@python.org> <6qfzmjumq7.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055185158.5625.python-list@python.org> <6qbrx7uh2u.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055197158.4087.python-list@python.org> <6q3cii2ude.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055258495.22269.python-list@python.org> <6qn0gp23kr.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055287253.23148.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc64t7$etlk3$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Steven Taschuk wrote:
> That seems plausible -- though Guido recently reiterated on py-dev
> his dislike of the idea of class-like attribute access for
> modules.  In his words: "When you want a class, use one. :-)".

Under type/class unification, a module is already
(an instance of) a class; you just don't get any
choice about which class it's an instance of.

I've been toying with the idea of something like

   __moduleclass__ = MyModuleClass

in the body of a module, somewhat analogous to
__metaclass__ in a class. The effect of this would
be that the object created by importing the module
would be an instance of the specified class, instead
of types.ModuleType.

The tricky part is that the class needs to be known
before the module object is created, but it can only
be discovered after executing (at least some of) the
module's code, and the module object needs to exist
before doing that, in case it gets imported by
something that it imports.

This could be circumvented by initially creating the
module as an ordinary module, and then later changing
its class if there is a __moduleclass__ present in its
namespace. This would probably require that the
__moduleclass__ be a subclass of types.ModuleType to
ensure C layout compatibility, but that would be fine
for the uses I have in mind.

By the way, the main use case I have for this is
for implementing autoloading of classes, so that I
can have a top-level package which apparently contains
a bunch of classes, but they don't actually get created
until someone asks for them. A module class with a
__getattr__ would be ideal for this.

I can feel a PEP coming on...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Jun  5 04:07:46 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:07:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com> <PNdDa.824522$OV.780836@rwcrnsc54> <bbjpt9$p0q$1@panix3.panix.com> <1ieDa.35049$DV.60225@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <mailman.1054701247.26488.python-list@python.org> <Xns93907DB5984EBduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <wOi3+kKkXE4e092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1054745891.17181.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93915BFB96DEFduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote in 
news:mailman.1054745891.17181.python-list at python.org:

>|def Doc(docstring, **kw):
>|    def fDoc(f):
>|        f.__doc__ = docstring
>|        f.__dict__.update(kw)
>|        return f
>|class Klass(object):
>|    def meth(this, that) [Doc("Bob's your uncle.", Author="me")]:
>|        pass
> 
> I don't understand this version.  I see the idea that you want to pass
> arguments to the "function constructor"--but where does the name 'fDoc'
> come from?  How does 'Doc()' know to call 'fDoc()' (which I presume it
> wants to)?

That's because I missed out a line by mistake. Doc doesn't want to call 
fDoc, it wants to return it, so it should contain a 'return fDoc' 
statement.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Jun  3 13:42:18 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:42:18 -0300 
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D018855CC@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- I think if a language supports a = b = 1
#- then that means  "b = 1"  returns a value
#- of 1, which can be assigned to any variable.
#- But it seems like it is only a syntactic sugar
#- in Python?


Wrong.

>>> a = b = 2
>>> b
2
>>> a
2
>>> id(a)
135286056
>>> id(b)
135286056
>>> a is b
1

"b = 1" does not return 1, just returns b. a and b are the same object now
(they are not just equal, they are the very same).

.	Facundo




From tony at pc-tony.com  Wed Jun  4 05:57:17 2003
From: tony at pc-tony.com (Tony)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 02:57:17 -0700
Subject: Reading in NT Variables / Login Script
Message-ID: <52acbff9.0306040157.4bbaff6b@posting.google.com>

Hi Guys, 

Apologies for asking such a dumb question, but I have become a little
stuck.
I am re-writing out NT Logon Scripts, they are currently very
cumbersome, and to be quite frank crap...

I am need to use several of the NT variables, and use these at several
stages, within the script.

Can anybody please point me in the right direction??


Cheers,
Tony



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun  4 14:17:48 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:17:48 -0600
Subject: Whre is my object ??
In-Reply-To: <20030603175723.A2473@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>; from staschuk@telusplanet.net on Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 05:57:23PM -0600
References: <bbj4p4$f8n$1@news1.ucsd.edu> <20030603175723.A2473@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
Message-ID: <20030604121748.A3368@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth King Kuta (in private email, for some reason):
  [...]
> This means that, theoretically, the "object" will be garbage-collected
> because (and that's the catch!) the fact that the istance is stored in a
> list DOES NOT bind the instance to a variable name in a scope.
>   
> Therfore my question: will my object be garbage-collected?
>   
> I still think it will.

No, it won't.  Only a profoundly useless form of garbage
collection would collect objects which are still accessible.  That
you expect otherwise is extremely bizarre.

Do you know what garbage collection is?

If you don't, please ask -- in the newsgroup, if you please, not
in private email -- and one or more of us will probably explain
it.  We're good that way.

> I bet I will better go ahead and test the code as I thought I would NOT
> work. Who knows, Python is full of surprises :-)

Yes, you ought to try it.  There's no reason not to, and doing so
*before* posting your expectations to Usenet might save you some
embarrassment.

No, Python is not full of surprises, unless you come to it with a
batch of strange ideas.

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "[W]e must be very careful when we give advice
staschuk at telusplanet.net    to younger people: sometimes they follow it!"
                             -- "The Humble Programmer", Edsger Dijkstra




From m at moshez.org  Mon Jun 16 13:22:00 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 17:22:00 -0000
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com>
References: <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com>, <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <20030616172200.6056.qmail@green.zadka.com>

I have always been slightly at odds with the XP community, and I
think your post shows why acutely:

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> Without tests, source code is a liability, not an asset.

That's, of course, correct but terribly misleading. Source code,
with or without tests, is always a liability. Sometimes a liability
you compromise for, because you need functionality which, with
or without tests, is an asset. Co-workers from the first company
I worked for still remember me gleefully deleting reams of code
I made unnecessary muttering "less code, less bugs". 

Sure, tests sometimes reduce bugs. And sometimes not. And sometimes
they reduce bugs, but less than what you would have accomplished
if you did something else. Sometimes, of course, tests are the
best way to fix bugs. The important thing to realize is "not always".
Sometimes, your time is better spent *not* writing tests. The best
example I have here is the mail program I use, PMS. It has no tests.
None. Nada. It's still reliable. python-slides, a cool package
by itamar which makes slides from Python source, has no tests.
I'd trust it with my life sooner than many other things.
 
I tend to write code, and then write tests if and when I get to them.
Sometimes, I only write tests before a big refactor. Sometimes,
I do the big refactor and just check several command-line options
manually to check it hasn't broken. Following a religion, like "always
write tests first", has always looked silly to me. Sorry :)
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Thu Jun 26 03:40:01 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 03:40:01 -0400
Subject: add empty directory using zipfile?
In-Reply-To: <Xns93A64264F1909JanC@213.118.38.24>
References: <rsmjfvkmc2s46abk236uao8malat1t7q83@4ax.com> <Xns93A64264F1909JanC@213.118.38.24>
Message-ID: <20030626074001.GA78391@hishome.net>

On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 04:31:37AM +0000, JanC wrote:
> Tung Wai Yip <tungwaiyip at yahoo.com> schreef:
> 
> > Can I add empty directory using zipfile? When I try to add a directory
> > it complains that it is not a file.
> 
> ZIP files can't contain directories, only files and the paths to those 
> files.  A workaround might be to put an empty file in the directory.

ZIP files *can* contain directories. They are described as zero-length
files with some flag set.  I don't see any specific API for this in 
zipfile.py but I think that if you pass a ZipInfo record with the right
values to ZipFile.writestr it should probably work. Consult the 
documentation of the zip format or just create a zip containing an empty 
directory with any zip utility look at the ZipInfo using zipfile.py.

    Oren




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Jun 17 18:31:25 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 18:31:25 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com> <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <mailman.1055784208.22718.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1055813915.12726.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u7k7kcp4y.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Moshe Zadka <m at moshez.org> writes:

> It's better to teach people the truth, no? Instead of teaching them
> about some rosy place which doesn't exist. I feel you are doing
> unit-testing a disservice: if someone buys into it, and finds that
> it isn't a win always, he'll just assume that it is worth nothing.
> In fact, I assumed tests are worth nothing after finding some glaring
> holes in XP's logic, and it took me a long time to be convinced that
> they are ever helpful. Assuming there are others like me, it is better
> to be honest about the limitations of technology first :)

One thing that made a big difference for me when I was doing my own
investigation of XP practices was the point when I realized that
equating TDD with unit testing was a disservice (probably to both
concepts), at least to my own conceptual model of things.

There have been several threads on the XP lists (at Yahoo I think)
with respect to TDD being test-driven-development, or even more
properly, test-driven-design.  That it is also close to traditional
unit tests, and that it often gives you reasonable coverage testing,
is a secondary effect.  It's primary effect is that you are using the
tests as an act of "design," and through the growing base of tests
letting your design evolve and emerge.  It doesn't preclude other
manners of testing (or not doing them at all) and of course XP even
has an extra level in the assurance tests.

At least for me, seeing TDD really as a "design" methodology and not
just unit testing (which I can easily see being done both before and
after the fact) was a significant change.  YMMV.

-- David



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Jun 26 20:24:25 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 26 Jun 2003 20:24:25 -0400
Subject: Activating `-i' from inside a script?
Message-ID: <oqwuf8cqpy.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

Hi, Python friends.

Is there a way for a script to activate the effect of the `-i' option, that
is, to force interactive mode once `__main__' has run?  For one application,
I would like that if the application discovers some data discrepancy or
failure (not a Python error) and only then, and if the application was also
started from a tty, it gives the user to interactively explore, using
Python, the context that was built while the run was going.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 11 16:13:00 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:13:00 -0600
Subject: Looking for the greatest negative float value
References: <bc7lvb$gm3$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <bc82gc$naf$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Gilles Lenfant wrote:

> I need the same as...
> 
> import sys
> negmaxint = - sys.maxint -1
> 
> ... but for float data
> 
> any hint ?
>

You want the kinds package, part of Numeric:


In [2]: import kinds

In [3]: kinds.default_float_kind.M
kinds.default_float_kind.MAX         kinds.default_float_kind.MIN
kinds.default_float_kind.MAX_10_EXP  kinds.default_float_kind.MIN_10_EXP
kinds.default_float_kind.MAX_EXP     kinds.default_float_kind.MIN_EXP

In [3]: kinds.default_float_kind.MIN
Out[3]: 2.2250738585072014e-308

Best,

f.



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun  9 07:24:05 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 07:24:05 -0400
Subject: Why is lambda so slow?
References: <cb7ba330.0306090311.4f6f0b73@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE46E55.F1953FDB@engcorp.com>

anson wrote:
> 
>     What's the reason of lambda being so slow?

Probably (since you don't define what you mean by "so slow")
you are referring to the effect of it implementing a function
call, which in Python is a relatively expensive operation to
set up (creating the stack frame, etc).

I think any other response requires you to define "how slow"
you think it is...

-Peter



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Mon Jun  2 23:02:24 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 03:02:24 GMT
Subject: integer to string?
References: <3edbffd5.61792491@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbdo48b.che.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Tue, 03 Jun 2003 02:15:27 GMT, Hendrik Reinhold wrote:
> import random
> from random import randrange
> var1 = randrange(0,9)
> capisuite.audio_send(call,my_path+var1+".la")

As you noted, the types conflict.  The type of an object is set when it
is assigned.

The Pythonic way to generate a string from multiple values of different
types is with string formatting:

=====
import random
rand_num = random.randrange( 0, 9 )
audio_file = "%s/%d.la" % my_path, rand_num
capisuite.audio_send( call, audio_file )
=====

The '%' is the format operator for strings.

  <http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html>

It returns a new string resulting from interpolating the right-hand-side
values into the left-hand-side format string.

-- 
 \        "I used to work in a fire hydrant factory. You couldn't park |
  `\                       anywhere near the place."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From F.Wellner at gmx.net  Fri Jun 27 09:54:27 2003
From: F.Wellner at gmx.net (Florian Wellner)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:54:27 +0200
Subject: problem: saving files in IDLE
Message-ID: <bdhiak$oq4$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

I've got a Problem when I want to save a .py file in
Idle. Most times it works, but sometimes I can't save
my file. In the "Python Shell" Window, I get the message:

   Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
    File
"/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line
1343, in __call__
      return apply(self.func, args)
    File "/usr/lib/idle/IOBinding.py", line 136, in save_as
      if self.writefile(filename):
    File "/usr/lib/idle/IOBinding.py", line 151, in writefile
      chars = str(self.text.get("1.0", "end-1c"))
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

What can I do?


Thanks,
Tom




From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Fri Jun 20 15:25:32 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:25:32 +0100
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056133597.28230.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bdn6fvkl4a1mg1u2h92ua6n1vd07uhnl40@4ax.com>

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:24:54 +0400 (MSD), Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru>
wrote:

>I am trying to find use of XML in my doings for 2 years already and every time
>I find XML not appropriate for the task. XML is human readable but I think it
>is still hard to edit XML files by hand. This is not the problem with
>machine-generated/read data but other, adhoc formats (like plain Python) are
>even less problem. What is the niche of XML? I do not believe it makes
>interapplication communication more robast (I think it's of the same quality
>as OOP helping code reuse). Dealing with XML requires more effort than dealing
>with ASCII texts by grep or re.search().

I think the niche of XML is that it comes with so many ready-rolled
parsers and manipulation tools.  Every time I invented an ad-hoc
format I had to invent the parser from scratch.  When I started using
XML -- for my postgrad project -- I stopped having to reinvent the
wheel.  Yes, for simple applications I would still use ASCII with sed
& awk (it would have to be /really/ simple for grep to do the job!)
but for even moderately complex data I find it a great help.  Oh, and
the keyboarding isn't a problem -- I automatically generate
everything, and rarely tweak it by hand.

I think that like every "flavour of the month" it's been used for
entirely inappropriate stuff, and it's not surprising that in such
cases it hasn't shown any benefit. It happens with all IT fads; in
most cases it dies down and people start using the tool or technique
where it actually offers value.  In some cases the negative reaction
to the hype is so extreme that it all but kills it off, which can be
sad.



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Mon Jun  9 08:44:14 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Mon,  9 Jun 2003 05:44:14 -0700
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
Message-ID: <1055162654.3ee4811e66d78@mcherm.com>

Ed Avis writes:
> Oh.  I thought someone said on this newsgroup only a few days ago that
> they did not, when I mentioned that
> 
>     cond and x or y
> 
> is a well-known substitute for a conditional operator like C's
> (cond ? x : y) or Haskell's (if cond then x else y).  Someone said
> that it wouldn't work, because x and y would be evaluated in either
> case.
> 
> But you're right, they do short-circuit, and so there is no need for a
> separate conditional operator (provided you consider the and-or trick
> a readable idiom).

It looks like you somehow managed to overlook the most vigorous
discussion ever to grace this newsgroup. (OK, maybe not the most
vigorous, but I can't recall another that generated more posts.)
Here's the clifs notes:

 (1) Python doesn't have a conditional expression.
 (2) Python has workarounds, notably "cond and x or y".
 (3) The workarounds don't really satisfy proponents, for 
     various reasons (don't short circuit, don't work in some 
     cases, or too unreadable for sane use).
 (4) Guido decided to throw it to a vote, and said he'd abide
     by the result. Then he simply shut up about it.
 (5) A weeks-long firestorm raged on this newsgroup as people
     proposed somewhat less than 100 syntax alternatives and
     wrote reams of missives on the subject. Eventually a vote
     was held (and at least one extra vote just be sure things
     were overdone).
 (6) There was discussion after the vote was announced about
     how to interpret the results.
 (7) Guido hasn't said a word about it ever since. Probably
     because he's been working on things like releasing 2.3
     which seem more important than a syntax change in some
     future version.

If you want to bring the subject up, please feel free to do
so after going through the archives and reading all postings
with a subject line including the text "PEP 308". As far
as I'm concerned, anyone who can claim to have read ALL such
posts is well-enough informed to be bringing up the subject
again. Otherwise, go read up on it, or wait for Guido to find
time to do the same. (Sorry, Ed, I'm not trying to jump all 
over YOU, just to prevent the discussion from starting fresh 
before we get some sort of finality to the previous discussion.)

-- Michael Chermside





From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun  6 14:24:30 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:24:30 -0600
Subject: C or C++ in Python
References: <mailman.1054912574.11090.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbqm8v$1vd$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Erhan Ekici wrote:

> Hi...
> 
> I work with Numerical Calculations in Ptyhon..
> I wanna calculate some part of my project using C or C++ in Python in order to
> gain speed and time.
> 
> I tried weave program.Weave  doesn't start.Because No C compiler
> in my system.Then I download MinGW 2.0.0.3.exe for gcc but weave.test() give
> errors...
> 
> What is problem ? and to use C or C++ in python, what should I do except Weave
> ?

A few points:

- I only use weave under linux, so I can't help you with windows issues

- But the weave developers _do_ use windows, so if you ask on the scipy mailing
list, I'm sure they'll give you some useful hints.

- I use weave a lot, and if you want to get started, I've included here a file
with a bunch of simple examples.  They document small usage cases typical of
numerical computing, you may find them useful in addition to the docs and
examples supplied with weave itself.

- Weave rocks :)

Best,

f.
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From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Jun 15 22:19:55 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:19:55 -0500
Subject: [General lang] how to call a parent
In-Reply-To: <uV6Ha.289$Ld5.35571863@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
References: <F%0Ha.261$WW3.30765151@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <bci7e2$e3t$1@panix3.panix.com> <uV6Ha.289$Ld5.35571863@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <20030616021955.GC24545@unpythonic.net>

On Sun, Jun 15, 2003 at 11:01:46PM +0000, John Fabiani wrote:
> I'm just starting to use python and playing with the tools and the language. 
> After building a few small windows (via BOA) I realized that I did not know
> how to create a class that allowed reuse in a general way.  I was testing
> how classes are used.  I was able create properties, call the __init__ of
> the parent class .etc  But then I realized I did not have a way to call a
> parent of control - such as a container.  Also I was not aware of "super". 
> I'm guessing that will help.  Still learning!!!!!!!!!!!!
> John

Yeah.  I didn't get in your first message that you were asking about the
inheritance tree -- I thought you were talking about parents in terms of a
tree-representation of an HTML document, for instance.

You must use super() if you expect the inheritance graph to be a DAG instead
of a tree (i.e., there's a "diamond shape" hiding somewhere).  For
instance, if you have
               A
              / \
             /   \
            B     C
             \   /
              \ /
               D
	class A(object): pass # super works only for "new-style objects"
	class B(A): pass
	class C(A): pass
	class D(B,C): pass
then follwing the rule (for cooperative methods) "each subclass method calls
the method defined on each of its base classes" will get you into trouble:
D.f calls both B and C, which in turn gives *two* calls to A.f (not the one
call you'd expect).  Super defines a strange-seeming order where each subclass
method calls *one* method defined on a base class, but the call may not be
to an ancestor class of the class making the call via super.  Confused yet?

Now, if you don't want to accomodate diamond-shape inheritance, then
there's a simpler way.  Just call the method by referencing the class
attribute, and explicitly name self as the first argument:
>>> class A:
...     def f(self, arg): print "A.f(%r,%r)" % (self, arg)
... 
>>> class B(A):
...	def f(self, arg):
...         print "B.f(%r,%r)" % (self, arg)
...         A.f(self, "spam") # call parent method
...
>>> o = B()
>>> o.f(37)
B.f(<__main__.B instance at 0x81d548c>,37)
A.f(<__main__.B instance at 0x81d548c>,'spam')

Wondering about the diamond and super?  Write the code yourself.  The
cooperative call looks like this:
        super(X, self).f(arg)
where X is the name of the class in which you're defining the method.
Remember, super only works when you make your classes new-style by deriving
from object.

Jeff




From tim.harford at rogers.com  Wed Jun 25 01:24:04 2003
From: tim.harford at rogers.com (Tim)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:24:04 GMT
Subject: IDLE- just stopped working
References: <od9Ka.23141$bRt.16587@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <UlaKa.9835$H9q1.3492@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

Weird. It seems that Python on occasion leaves the Win registry dirty even
after uninstall. Must have been a bad registry

Solved.

"Tim" <tim.harford at rogers.com> wrote in message
news:od9Ka.23141$bRt.16587 at news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> Any thoughts. idle just stopped working--click or run the
script--nothing???
>
> I even uninstalled all python and reinstalled (assume the IDLE with the
new
> package is good).
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> Tim
>
>





From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sun Jun  1 22:50:03 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 1 Jun 2003 19:50:03 -0700
Subject: Replace for Goto
References: <aa2e3602.0305281646.32cf1129@posting.google.com> <3ED55C2D.9030903@ghaering.de> <mailman.1054502105.3038.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0306011850.417bbed6@posting.google.com>

Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.1054502105.3038.python-list at python.org>...
> Gerhard H?ring schreef op donderdag 29 mei om 03:04:37 +0000:
> > Use a never-ending while loop, then use an "if" and a "break". Like this:
> > 
> > while 1:
> >     # do stuff
> >     answer = raw_input("Want to play again? (y/n)").upper()
> >     if answer == 'N':
> >         break
> 
> Or, even better:
> 
> while raw_input("Want to play again? (y/n)").upper()[0] != 'N':
>     # do stuff

But you've changed the meaning.  Your way asks the player if they want
to play again before they've played the first time.



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Fri Jun 20 09:52:06 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 06:52:06 -0700
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com> <mailman.1055919632.16586.python-list@python.org> <rfVHa.105923$pR3.2320136@news1.tin.it> <yfs65n39z72.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <just-0D60BB.18081218062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <yfsof0v880w.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <2259b0e2.0306190831.63d42265@posting.google.com> <yfswufi6j86.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <2259b0e2.0306191332.664300c0@posting.google.com> <yfsof0t7gwp.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306200552.6e41358d@posting.google.com>

Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<yfsof0t7gwp.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk>...
> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:
> I wanted to measure the slowdown due to "pure" 
> > subclassing, i.e. without doing anything to __getattr__ and __setattr__.
> 
> Do you maybe mean __getitem__/__setitem__? I'm not sure why you are interested
> in the "pure" subclassing overhead, this doesn't seem a particularly
> meaningful quantity in the context of comparing it to the price to pay for no
> built-in dict(foo='bar') sugar.
<snip>
> > Of course, if you override __getattr__, there is an issue, but the
> > issue would be the same with Python 2.2. 
> > I am curious to test the difference between Python 2.2 and 2.3; 
> > I will look at the instance creation time too, but this is less
> > important than the access time, since typically I create a dictionary 
> > only once.
> 
> Indeed (which is why having to write your own syntactic sugar one-liner
> wouldn't even be a performance problem).
> 
> 'as

Sorry for the typo, of course I meant __setitem__/__getitem__. 
I am saying that a workaround for the change of the constructor signature 
is to subclass dict and to override the constructor. There is 
not a big penalty and you seems to agree (your last sentence). 
Overriding __getitem__ gives a big penalty, that's true, but this has 
nothing to do with the change of the constructor in Python 2.3, right ?
I do not understand where the source of the confusion is (if any).


                       Michele



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun 18 17:35:45 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:35:45 +0200
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
In-Reply-To: <xqxn0gfpm3j.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
References: <mailman.1055882854.8200.python-list@python.org> <xqxn0gfpm3j.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <20030618213545.GA5805@nl.linux.org>

> > > > >     >> 3) Discovering filter() and map().
> > > > >     >> 4) Fortifying classes with __setattr__() and friends.
> > > > >     >> 4.5) Leaving if:, elif:, and else: on their
> > > > >     >>      scorn or deprecation.
> > > > >     5) Discovering list comprehensions and then
> > > > > dumping filter() and map().
> > > >       6) Belive that "self" is not ugly
> > > 7) You start writing a simple script and when you are 
> > > finished you realize that you have a library
> > 7.a) You finish writing a simple script, and realize it's going
> >      to be an excellent library, and redo it again in a library
> >      form, which is called by a separate script.  (*GUILTY*)

42) You discovered a useful X tool called 'import' by accidently
    writing a python script with '#!/bin/sh' as the shebang.

This really happend :)
$ whatis import
import               (1)  - capture some or all of an X server screen and save the image to a file


170) You go on pilgrimage to the Centrum voor Wiskunde en
     Informatica (Stichting Mathematisch Centrum) in the
     Kruislaan; I pass it on my way to the supermarket :P
     
682) You think Python has too many curly braces

2730) You're Dutch

10922) When you end each mail using Timbot.message.end(...), returning:

43690-is-the-next-number-using-my-beatiful-list-comprehension-ly - y'rs t^Hgerrit

raise StopEmail

-- 
188. If an artizan has undertaken to rear a child and teaches him his
craft, he can not be demanded back.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From noemail at nospam.com  Thu Jun 26 23:32:57 2003
From: noemail at nospam.com (python newbie)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 03:32:57 GMT
Subject: Year 2000 book still useful?
Message-ID: <JVOKa.3738$bJ2.3348@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>

I just realized that the book I recently bought, "The Quick Python Book", is
dated 2000.

Was wanting to know if there are certain areas where I shouldn't try to
learn, such as maybe OO concepts, so I don't learn outdated parts of python
??

thanks from a wannabe snake tamer
Steve





From ed at membled.com  Tue Jun  3 17:15:00 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 03 Jun 2003 22:15:00 +0100
Subject: Porridge 0.0
References: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <VYNCa.66$5L6.15@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <mailman.1054587904.7131.python-list@python.org> <l1he77mztp.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <slrnbdoi2k.che.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <l18ysin9rf.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> writes:

>Building on the success of Python to date, Porridge will correct all the
>flaws that have been raised by opponents of Python.

If you can give it lexically scoped variables, closures, pattern
matching, proper anonymous subroutines (not like 'lambda' which
doesn't let you do assignment or sequencing or even assertions) and,
essentially, most of the other features of Vyper then I'd switch to it
immediately.  Oh, and put goto in there as well, it is sorely missed.

(Scheme has been described as 'porridge with toenail clippings mixed
in', referring to the syntax.  Replace the toenail syntax with
something clean like Python's, while keeping most of the the
expressiveness, and you have a very nice language.)

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From imunitic at vest.hr  Tue Jun 17 14:23:19 2003
From: imunitic at vest.hr (Ivica =?iso-8859-2?Q?Muniti=E6?=)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 20:23:19 +0200
Subject: mod_python + Spyce
In-Reply-To: <20030616213602.5997.35107.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20030616213602.5997.35107.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <1055874198.3252.4.camel@gandalf.kav.vest.hr>

I was wondering how many of you people actually use
mod_python and especially spyce for web developing.

I have a project for my university and I'm plannig to use this combination
for it.

Now what's your opinion about both of these packages.


P.S.
 	Sorry for my bad english.

***********************
* Name: Ivica Munitic *
*   Country: Croatia  *
***********************





From snag at jool.po  Sat Jun  7 20:35:55 2003
From: snag at jool.po (kpop)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 01:35:55 +0100
Subject: program path
Message-ID: <fyvEa.17336$pK2.23786@news.indigo.ie>

Hi
how do i get the path of the python script thats running  from within
python.
this might not always be the same as the path I ran the program from nor
os.getcwd().
like if i ran the program from a differant directory.
I would like it to say something like /home/users/blah/myprogram  on unix
and
c:\stuff\myprogram on windows for example. It doesnt have to give the name
of the .py
script itself just the directory its in, with or without the last seperation
character (/ on unix).

Thanks







From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Jun 18 13:46:39 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:46:39 +0200
Subject: Why does this work in jython and not in python?
References: <87adcfqn13.fsf@speeder.org>
Message-ID: <bcq8i8$8e5$1@main.gmane.org>

Roman Milner wrote:

> I'm sorting a list of dictionaries based on a particular key. Using
> the code below, the list gets sorted in jython, but not in python.
> I'm using python 2.2.1 and jython 2.1.
>
> I really appreciate any help.

a careful look at the "sort" documentation might help:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-mutable.html

    The sort() method takes an optional argument specifying a
    comparison function of two arguments (list items) which should
    return a negative, zero or positive number depending on whether
    the first argument is considered smaller than, equal to, or larger
    than the second argument.

"a < b" doesn't do that, obviously.

the easiest way to get a correct number is to use the "cmp"
function:

def sort_func(one, two):
    return cmp(one['a'], two['a'])

</F>







From rune.hansen at sinsenveien83.com  Wed Jun  4 09:25:17 2003
From: rune.hansen at sinsenveien83.com (Rune Hansen)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:25:17 +0200
Subject: TkInter/McMillan installer question.
In-Reply-To: <b714b8de.0306032110.378de36c@posting.google.com>
References: <b714b8de.0306032110.378de36c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbkrsm$qa0$1@services.kq.no>

If my memory (and McMillans documentation) servers me right you'll have 
to install win32all from
http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/ to get the -icon option to 
work. You should definetively install win32all if you are going to work 
on the win* platform at all. I'm certain it will help with your 
"disapointments".

regards
/rune

Aki Niimura wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm trying to create a MS-Windows executable from my Python Tkinter
> script using McMillan Installer script.
> 
> It worked very nicely. I was very amazed as I had so many disappointments
> with Python/Windows environment.
> 
> However, I tried to assign a icon file using --icon file.ico option. It
> didn't honor the option.
> Using --debug option, I found the following message:
> ignoring icon and version resources = platform not capable
> 
> I'm creating the exe file under Windows XP Home (with Cygwin).
> 
> Did anybody suceed to use --icon option under Windows XP?
> If the Installer cannot assign the icon, is there any way to assign
> the icon afterward?
> 
> Any suggestions, comments are highly appreciated.
> 
> Best regards,
> Aki Niimura




From jack at performancedrivers.com  Tue Jun  3 09:30:21 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:30:21 -0400
Subject: sandboxing python code
In-Reply-To: <20030603093255.21693.qmail@green.zadka.com>; from m@moshez.org on Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 09:32:55AM -0000
References: <fd3e3161.0306030111.39ea5ce6@posting.google.com> <20030603093255.21693.qmail@green.zadka.com>
Message-ID: <20030603093021.B1163@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 09:32:55AM -0000, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> On 3 Jun 2003, ben at transversal.com (ben at transversal.com) wrote:
> 
> > I've recently (6 months or so) been converted to Python, and so have
> > become an avid reader of this newgroup. One thing that has been brought up
> > occasionally by other people, but never has really been answered
> > satisfactorily is the problem of running untrusted code.
>
> Just like in real life -- if you don't trust someone, don't invite them
> into your house and try to keep an eye on them, it's just too hard. Communicate
> with them by phone, so that their opportunity to harm you is limited. Of
> course, they may shout into your phone, or try to overload your stack
> by sending you malformed objects. But it is is much easier to defend against 
> these kind of attacks.

LPC Muds mainly used restricted access (the poeple who could run code on
your box were invited) to prevent people from DoS'ing the box.  There
was also some stupidity protection, only so many opcodes could be run per-user
per-turn.  Not perfect, but close enough in practice.

This is a hard problem and is best handled by the OS.  If anyone cares to
solve the problem it would go a long way to making distributed computing
and passing around code (think of avatars or even viruses!) easy and common.
If you solve the problem, let me know, I would be a giddy beta tester *wink*.

This would be a killer app for python, it is much easier to dynamically
throw around python than perl or java (lisp would also be good, but is a
non-starter for other reasons).

-jackdied




From marcus.bergmann at isst.fhg.de  Fri Jun 13 10:52:56 2003
From: marcus.bergmann at isst.fhg.de (Marcus Bergmann)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:52:56 +0200
Subject: insert thousands separators
Message-ID: <3EE9E548.9010701@isst.fhg.de>

Hi,

how can I insert thousands separators into an integer or a string, e.g. 
1000000 to 1.000.000?

Thanks and cheers,
Marcus




From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Jun 22 14:30:51 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:30:51 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Remove duplicate letters in a word
In-Reply-To: <20030622115712.B416@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306222213180.29696-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sun, 22 Jun 2003, Steven Taschuk wrote:

>Quoth Eliran Gonen:
>  [...]
>> For example, in the word SECRET, E appears twice, I need to get rid of
>> the second instance of E.


Using newest Python technology it could be even simpler:

import sets

def nodups(s):
  seen = sets.Set()
  return "".join([c for c in s if c not in seen and not seen.add(c)])

print nodups('secret')


In fact, resulting string is always very small: 256 chars maximum
for 8bit encoding and 131072 bytes for Unicode (2 byte). So optimizations
concerned with += of strings aren't that effective.


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Fri Jun  6 12:02:31 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:02:31 -0600
Subject: XMLRPC Authentication
In-Reply-To: <3EE0B8B8.6070602@optonline.com>
References: <3EE0B8B8.6070602@optonline.com>
Message-ID: <20030606160231.6470A2026F@www.fastmail.fm>

I have a simple xmlrpc server (using xmlrpclib) that accepts requests
from clients and runs some administrative commands on a bunch of servers
I support.  I would like to lock down access to the service so that only
authorized users can use it, by authenticating with a user name and
password.

Has anyone done this before?  Is there an already existent authentication
framework available I can use with xmlrpc?

I was looking at twisted, and they do have an authentication framework,
but it looked like it wouldn't work with xmlrpc.  I'm trying to verify
this with the twisted developers as well.

Thanks.
-Justin




From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Mon Jun 16 12:27:49 2003
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:27:49 +0100
Subject: Saving Files Under Windows
Message-ID: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E443411B@iron.ima.umn.edu>

achrist at easystreet.com> This looks to be exactly what I need, if I can get
it to work ...
achrist at easystreet.com> Are these not portable to WinNT?  On NT 4.0 SP6,  I
get:

[snip error messages]

Ahh. I rather thought that the win32 shell stuff was universal (on win32, at
least). I don't have an NT4 box here, so I'll have to try it when I get
home. Can anyone else confirm, or cast light on this?

TJG

________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk
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From ramen at lackingtalent.com  Tue Jun 17 03:45:39 2003
From: ramen at lackingtalent.com (Dave Benjamin)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:45:39 -0000
Subject: Python as a Language Choice
References: <bckvg4$kdoar$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <2ec1bc1c.0306161417.7f890a66@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbethtb.4vn.ramen@lackingtalent.com>

In article <2ec1bc1c.0306161417.7f890a66 at posting.google.com>, Larry wrote:
> "Cousin Stanley" <CousinStanley at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bckvg4$kdoar$1 at ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>...
>> Someone in another NewsGroup asked
>> why I had picked Python as a language of choice ...
>> 
>>      and embeddable in other languages ...
> 
> Hey another Python lover in Phoenix! I didn't realize we were such a hotbed!

Here's one more. =) I've been happily writing Python for almost two years.
Went to ASU for Computer Science and graduated in Fall of 2001. I now work in
Scottsdale and just bought a house in North Phoenix.

Cheers!
Dave



From v.wehren at home.nl  Sun Jun 22 11:02:11 2003
From: v.wehren at home.nl (vincent wehren)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:02:11 +0200
Subject: Updating to Python 2.2.3
References: <mailman.1056228855.20871.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bd4frv$prl$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1056228855.20871.python-list at python.org...
[Christoph St?hli]
> I would like to update Python 2.2.2 to the newest version (2.2.3). Do
> I have to uninstall the older version first?

>I do, and I've never tried not to.  I don't know >what would happen if you>
>don't.  Why risk it?  The PLabs Windows >nstaller certainly doesn't
>uninstall older versions first.

I have installed Python version 2.2.1  through 2.2.3 on at least 6
production machines without ever deinstalling the previous version first. I
can't say I ever ran into any trouble. This was different though when
changing major or minor versions.
(e.g 1.52 > 2.n.n or 2.1.n > 2.2.n)

On the other hand, maybe I was just lucky...

Regards
Vincent Wehren





> Do i have to reinstall all the side-packages (VPython, wxPython etc.)?

No, and the PLabs uninstaller for 2.2.2 won't remove them either, so it's
safe to use that to uninstall 2.2.2 first.  The 2.2.3 installer will note
that the installation directory already exists then, and ask you whether you
want to install 2.2.3 on top of it.  Say yes.

> I'm running Windoze XP.

Note that the answer is different then when you move from Python 2.2.3 to
2.3 -- in WindowsLand, Python releases are not compatible across minor
version numbers (the second digit in i.j.k).  That's unique to Windows, BTW
(on Linux, e.g., you'll probably be able to use 3rd-party binaries compiled
for 2.2.3 with 2.3 too, but never across a minor version number increment on
Windows).







From dwimansjur at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 20 21:34:37 2003
From: dwimansjur at hotmail.com (Dwi Sianto Mansjur)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 18:34:37 -0700
Subject: Newbie wordnet and pywordnet
Message-ID: <9c1c646f.0306201734.7aced3b0@posting.google.com>

I am trying to use pywordnet in window environment.
After extracting pywordnet into python folder, I am not sure how to
include the wordnet database so that python recognize it.

Running a simple example, I got the following error message.
>>>N['dog']
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python23\o90.py", line 5, in ?
    N['dog']
NameError: name 'N' is not defined

thanks in advance...



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Fri Jun 20 10:07:31 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:07:31 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com>
 <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it>
 <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com>
 <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr>
 <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com>
 <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it>
 <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com>
 <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it>
 <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <bcre27$mci8i$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <1056084953.994309@yasure>
Message-ID: <u4r2kona4.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> writes:

> Quoth "Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com>:
> | David Abrahams wrote:
> |> I don't have any first-hand experience, but the experience of friends
> |> of mine who have used Haskell is that it can be exceedingly difficult
> |> to locate the source of a type error when it does occur, since the
> |> inference engine may propagate the "wrong" type back much further than
> |> the source of the error.
> |
> | I played with HUGS intensively for a while some time back,
> | and I can attest that this is indeed a problem. I was led
> | to the conclusion that the only way to retain my sanity
> | was to provide an explicit type declaration for every
> | function.
> |
> | This has two benefits -- it helps the compiler catch
> | type errors early enough to actually give you a useful
> | error message, and it helps to document the code.
> |
> | But if you're doing that, you don't get much benefit
> | from type inference, raising the question of whether it's
> | worth the effort of designing a compiler that can do it
> | at all.
>
> There's a huge difference between optional type annotation
> and a system that requires you to declare the type of every
> single thing.  The latter is a big nuisance, and far from
> helping to document the code it buries the sense of what the
> function is doing in a lot of trivia about its parts.

Clearly that's a matter of opinion.  I'd love to use a language which
made type inference optional, just to see.  Maybe I'll have to start
playing with Haskell.

In the meantime, I'd like to quote a favorite phrase:

   "Explicit is better than implicit"

<wink>

turning-the-zen-against-itself-ly y'rs,
Dave

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Jun 30 11:47:54 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:47:54 -0500
Subject: Partition names with Python
In-Reply-To: <1056984252.3f004cbc6abd6@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr> (Erhan Ekici's
 message of "Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:44:12 +0300")
References: <1056984252.3f004cbc6abd6@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <m265mny3bp.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Erhan" == Erhan Ekici <erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr> writes:

    Erhan> Hi, How do I get partition names (i.e. C:\ , D:\ ,E:\ on
    Erhan> windows, hda,hda1 , hda2 on Linux machines) using Python.

There is nothing to do this in the standard library as far as I know,
but it is fairly easy to parse the output of fdisk.  If you are
running as su

  #!/your/path/to/python2.2
  import os

  for line in os.popen('/sbin/fdisk -l').readlines():
      if line.find('/dev/') !=0: continue
      columns = line.split()
      print columns[0].split('/')[-1]


Should do it.  With a little work, you could modify this to work cross
platform if you have fdisk installed on your win32 machine.

JDH




From sameer_ at email.com  Tue Jun 10 13:16:54 2003
From: sameer_ at email.com (sameer)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 10:16:54 -0700
Subject: reading/writing files in windows
References: <6bd9f01b.0306090825.37845495@posting.google.com> <6bd9f01b.0306100407.474a10b3@posting.google.com> <3EE5D4AF.142ABB32@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <6bd9f01b.0306100916.126af2f8@posting.google.com>

why would it need to be in binary mode?  I create all files in 'a'
append mode.  All my code reads the file only in 'r' mode.  By
"jumbled" I you simply mean the lines are all joined together, as
though there were no linebreaks at all.

the code that generates the contents of the file

LINE_SEP = '\n'

def publish_formatted_error_report(retrieved_email_obj,
error_msg_list):
    published_object =
'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX%s'%LINE_SEP
    published_object +=
'------------HEADER-----------------------%s'%LINE_SEP
    published_object +=
'Source:%s%s'%(retrieved_email_obj.msg_from,LINE_SEP)
    published_object +=
'Date:%s%s'%(retrieved_email_obj.msg_date,LINE_SEP)
    published_object +=
'Time:%s%s'%(retrieved_email_obj.msg_time,LINE_SEP)
    published_object += 'Primus
Header:%s%s%s'%(retrieved_email_obj.primus_header, LINE_SEP, LINE_SEP)
    published_object +=
'-----------ERRORS-----------------------%s'%LINE_SEP
    for error in error_msg_list:
        published_object += "%s%s"%(error,LINE_SEP)
    published_object += '%s-----------ORIGINAL
MESSAGE-------------%s'%(LINE_SEP,LINE_SEP)
    published_object += "%s%s"%(retrieved_email_obj.msg_body,LINE_SEP)
    published_object +=
'%s----------CORRECTED---------------------%s%s%s%s'%(LINE_SEP,
LINE_SEP,
                                                               
LINE_SEP, LINE_SEP, LINE_SEP)
    return published_object

The part that reads it back:

def _extract_published_retrieved_email_object(published_object, v=0):
    header = {}
    lines = string.split(published_object, LINE_SEP)
    lines = [string.replace(line, '\r','') for line in lines]
    lines = [string.replace(line, LINE_SEP,'') for line in lines]
    lines = filter(None, lines)
    if v:
        print "published object string"
        print lines
    # extract header
    if string.find(lines[0],'HEADER') == -1:
        raise "Illegal Header: %s"%lines[0]
    if string.find(lines[1],'Source:') == -1:
        raise "Illegal Header (Source Header Not Found): %s"%lines[1]
    msg_from = lines[1][string.find(lines[1],':')+1:]
    if string.find(lines[2],'Date:') == -1:
        raise "Illegal Header (Date Header Not Found): %s"%lines[2]
    msg_date = lines[2][string.find(lines[2],':')+1:]
    if string.find(lines[3],'Time:') == -1:
        raise "Illegal Header (Time Header Not Found): %s"%lines[3]
    msg_time = lines[3][string.find(lines[3],':')+1:]
    if string.find(lines[4],'Primus Header:') == -1:
        raise "Illegal Header (Primus Header Not Found): %s"%lines[4]
    msg_primus_header = lines[4][string.find(lines[4],':')+1:]
    if v:
        print "Extracted Message Headers..."
        print "From: ",msg_from, ' ', "Date: ", msg_date, ' ', "Time:
",msg_time, ' ', "Primus Header: ", primus_header
    msg_body = ''
    remaining_lines = lines[5:]
    body_found = 0
    for line in remaining_lines:
        if string.find(line,
'----------CORRECTED---------------------') != -1:
            body_found = 1
            continue
        if not line:
            body_found = 0
            break
        if body_found:
            msg_body += string.upper(line) + LINE_SEP
    print "Msg Body"
    print msg_body
    #(msg_to, msg_from, msg_time, msg_subject, msg_body, msg_date)
    return Retrieved_Email('', msg_from, msg_time, '', msg_body,
msg_date, primus_header=msg_primus_header)


def extract_formatted_error_report(v=0):
    try:
        error_string = open(CORRECTED_ERRORS_FILE,'r').read()
    except IOError:
        error_string = ''
    message_list = string.split(error_string,
'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX')
    if v:
        for i in message_list:
            print "raw message is >>> %s"%i
    retrieved_email_list=[]
    single_msg_list = []
    new_msg_list = []
#    for i in message_list:
#        single_msg_list=string.split(i,LINE_SEP)
#        single_msg_list = filter(None, single_msg_list)
#        new_msg_list.append(string.join(single_msg_list,LINE_SEP))
#    new_msg_list = filter(None, new_msg_list)
#    if v:
#        print "[Status] new msg list:"
#        print new_msg_list
    for i in new_msg_list:
        retrieved_email_list.append(_extract_published_retrieved_email_object(i))
    return retrieved_email_list


Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3EE5D4AF.142ABB32 at engcorp.com>...
> sameer wrote:
> > 
> > Of course the OS implied is windows (2000 Professional to be exact).
> > Moving across a network means that I am dragging the file from my
> > computer to shared folder on another computer, both computers being in
> > the same domain.  This is just a plain text file.  Then I open the
> > file that I transferred using notepad, make some changes to it and
> > save and there are no linebreaks at all in the text.  all the lines
> > are jumbled together.
> > 
> > sameer_ at email.com (sameer) wrote in message news:<6bd9f01b.0306090825.37845495 at posting.google.com>...
> > > I create files in windows using python.  I have tried using \n and
> > > \r\n as the return character and they both work fine.  It's when I
> > > move a text file, written by my python program, across a network, open
> > > the file and save to it that all the text becomes jumbled up, and all
> > > return characters are lost.  How can I make it so this doesn't happen?
> 
> Sorry, you'll have to do better.  You still haven't posted any 
> example code showing how you "create files ... using python".
> 
> Also, by "jumbled" do you simply mean the lines are all joined
> together, as though there were no linebreaks at all?  It's better
> to be precise when describing a problem that you hope others will
> help you debug.
> 
> Do you have any program which will let you view the binary contents
> of the file after the transfer?
> 
> Instead of "dragging" the file, can you use the copy command instead,
> both with the /A option and with the /B option?
> 
> Are you perhaps having a problem with "binary mode" or not using
> binary mode when you create the file in the first place?  You said
> you tried both \n and \r\n but without example code, no one can 
> possibly know what you are really trying to do.
> 
> -Peter



From marks.pryorSHRUB at CHENEYverizon.net  Fri Jun 27 03:26:08 2003
From: marks.pryorSHRUB at CHENEYverizon.net (Mark S Pryor)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 07:26:08 GMT
Subject: win32ui screen capture
References: <o43nfvsc8r4q934p709l1g3thtoube37qn@4ax.com> <bnknfvopjv4ih5t6t7ba47ib6s6f37esvc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <kkSKa.5513$v71.224@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

<Me Mine> wrote in message
news:bnknfvopjv4ih5t6t7ba47ib6s6f37esvc at 4ax.com...
> Hi again,
>
> ok, so now I'm closer.  I can create a compatible memory dc and a new
> bitmap, which is always black is created.  But I can't figure out how
> to BitBlt to the memory DC from the window DC.  The line is commented

I tried for 30 minutes, but no joy. I too get a black BMP result.

One suggestion. Add this
import win32con as con

In bltbit( , , , 204) use
                con.SRCCOPY) instead

hth,
Mark Pryor





From v.wehren at home.nl  Fri Jun 20 12:47:29 2003
From: v.wehren at home.nl (vincent wehren)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:47:29 +0200
Subject: Btrieve/C-extension question
References: <bcrua6$120$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <94974e1a.0306190653.3a829cb6@posting.google.com> <bcslog$70p$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <94974e1a.0306200124.4dee6542@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bcvd9d$r6j$1@news2.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"Paul Simmonds" <psimmo60 at hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:94974e1a.0306200124.4dee6542 at posting.google.com...
> "vincent wehren" <v.wehren at home.nl> wrote in message
news:<bcslog$70p$1 at news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>...
> > "Paul Simmonds" <psimmo60 at hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:94974e1a.0306190653.3a829cb6 at posting.google.com...
> > > "vincent wehren" <v.wehren at home.nl> wrote in message
> >  news:<bcrua6$120$1 at news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>...
> > > <Problem description snipped>
> > > > Is it sensible to pass such a block of memory to Python and back?
> > > > If so, what is the best way to go about this, I.O.W, how do I pass
such
> >  a
> > > > block of memory
> > > > to Python and back (unchanged).
> > >
> > > I think you need a PyCObject.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Yes, that was my guess too...
> > So I did someting along the lines of:
(...)
> For example (untested):
>
> PyObject *VoidPtr_ParseMe(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
> {   int flag;
>     PyObject *file;
>     if(!PyArg_ParseTuple(args,"Oi",&file,&flag)) return NULL;
>     /* This could be your problem  /\
>      * Then this should work...*/
>     your_function(PyCObject_AsVoidPtr(file), flag);
> etc...
> }
>
> Of course, if the mistake in your ParseTuple line was just a typo,

Yes this was just a typo. The problem I had was the scope of the pos_blk in
the legacy
C code. After some redesign of the wrapper passing PyCObjects around now
works like a charm!!
Amazing feature!

Cheers,
Vincent Wehren














> maybe you should take a look at exactly what gets put into the
> CObject.
>
> HTH,
> Paul
> >
> > Vincent Wehren
> >





From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun 25 22:51:23 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:51:23 -0500
Subject: Check your Wikis
In-Reply-To: <8765mtviwv.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <6a351$3ef6f993$516049d2$22156@nf1.news-service.com>
        <23891c90.0306250537.565529a8@posting.google.com>
        <3a9kfvc6f90q0a10k3anki4vughfvq40jt@4ax.com>
        <8765mtviwv.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <16122.24491.277011.612397@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    John> Why not have a undo-able wiki?  Seems like the best solution.  The
    John> Zope site does that, IIRC, and I don't think they need to use the
    John> undo facility very often.

MoinMoin is pretty popular in the Python community.  It allows you to
"subscribe" to individual pages, so you can see when people scribble on the
FrontPage (for example).  I would prefer it if I could subscribe page
modifying event log entries.

Skip





From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Jun  2 12:14:35 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:14:35 +0100
Subject: A Python application server?
References: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> <slrnbdmruc.aud.axel@pizza.home.kosnet.com>
Message-ID: <bbft59$7g5$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Axel Straschil" <axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com> wrote in message
news:slrnbdmruc.aud.axel at pizza.home.kosnet.com...
> Hallo!
>
> > As the system is web-based I also want to address the security aspects
>
> You allready took a look at Zope (www.zope.org)?
>

Yes, briefly.  I've pointed my associate in the direction of Twisted,
WebWare, Zope, PYRO etc., but I think he's waiting to see what proposed
solution I come up with.  The thing is, I know relatively (no, make that
very) little about application servers and the variety of options is
preventing me from settling on anything specific (I did decide on Twisted,
but now I'm leaning towards WebWare).  But I am learning a bit as I go along
:-).

Duncan





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jun 16 13:01:21 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 10:01:21 -0700
Subject: why does python execute line bye line as im coding?????????
References: <20030613235210.11559.00000446@mb-m13.aol.com>	 <1055568135.6522.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>	 <20030614212133.GA7187@nl.linux.org> <mailman.1055636665.21612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306160901.1e76db08@posting.google.com>

Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at attbi.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055636665.21612.python-list at python.org>...
> On Sat, 2003-06-14 at 14:21, Gerrit Holl wrote:
> > Cliff Wells wrote:
> > > entire program and execute it all at once, you need to use a text editor
> > > (preferably emacs) to create the file (something like "myprogram.py")
> > > and then use the command "python myprogram.py" to run it.
> > 
> > <silence>
> 
> What?  Not an emacs fan?  <wink>

>From emacs I will hit CTRL-c-c  (not sure if Gerrit's silence was referring
to this). Not an emacs fan, but I never got used to vi modals keybindings ...


                                Michele



From ken at hotmail.com  Sun Jun  8 01:32:55 2003
From: ken at hotmail.com (Ken)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 15:32:55 +1000
Subject: Excuting scripts question
References: <bbtq4o$d718f$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE26F88.C86E88BB@alcyone.com> <bbu0bo$df2cq$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE28A13.65FD29DD@engcorp.com> <bbu7gc$ddp76$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE2AEA5.8A63C18E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bbuhq9$diov7$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3EE2AEA5.8A63C18E at engcorp.com...
> Ken wrote:
> >
> > "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >  Do you have a web server running on it?
>
> > I installed IIS. (I am running Windows 2000 Pro)
> > I went into Control Panel/Admin Tools/Internet Information
Services/Default
> > Web Site and go into properties. In the "Home Directory" tab, I went
into
> > "Configuration". Clicked "Add", put in the path of python.exe executable
> > (C:\Python22\python.exe), extension "cgi" and pressed ok. Is this the
right
> > way to do it? I am planning to run this Win2000 machine as a web server
for
> > my cgi scripts that used to reside on a Unix machine. The script files
and
> > HTML files are saved into the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory.
>
> Well, at least you're a step farther than I feared (i.e. not
> even having a server running).  Unfortunately, you're basically
> asking a Win2K configuration question, and I can't help you
> there except to suggest you simplify the problem so that you
> don't involve your old scripts *and* the server *and* CGI and
> everything else.
>
> What's the simplest thing you can get working that demonstrates
> that the server is able to process CGI?
>
> After that it should be a simple matter to modify the settings
> to handle Python as well.

I basically don't know if my problem with script execution have anything to
do with this first line, which was used on the Unix environment
beforehand....

#!/usr/local/bin/python

Thanks

>
> -Peter





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jun  3 14:48:22 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:48:22 -0400
Subject: Help with coroutine-based state machines?
References: <3ED622CA.4B01E3C1@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054249933.7365.python-list@python.org> <3ED76105.CB8F3ECF@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054317657.5272.python-list@python.org> <3EDC69DF.A46A97D4@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <xLGdnbw6stHmcEGjXTWcoA@comcast.com>

"Alan Kennedy" <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3EDC69DF.A46A97D4 at hotmail.com...
...
> Thanks to your clear examples, I now picture coroutines in the
> following way (which I hope is correct :-).

Some further comments, based on my understandings...

> 2. The only method by which the "traditional" function call can
> invoke another "traditional" function/method call is to call it
> "recursively",

'Recursive' usually refers to a function calling itself, either
directly or via another function.  Using 'recursive' for what are
normally considered non-recursive calls that create a call chain in
which each function is unique is a somewhat confusing expansion of its
meaning.

> thus causing the construction of another stack frame.
> There is no mechanism for it to "substitute" the stack frame of the
> called function "in place of" its own stack frame. (Although I
> believe that Stackless can do this, after much rewriting and
> reinvention of truth :-).
>
> 3. Because all "traditional" function/method calls, involve the
> creation and eventual destruction of a stack frame, I label the
space
> in which they operate "Linear stack space".

Generators also involve the creation and eventual distruction of a
stack frame...

> 4. There is another space, which I call "Generator space".

What specifically do you consider to be part of this 'space'?
Candidates include generator functions, the generator objects they
produce (which follow the iterator protocal by having .__iter__ and
.next methods), the .next methods themselves, and the frames
associated with activated .next methods.

> When a call is made into "Generator space",

This implies that it contains the .next methods ...

> a stack frame is not constructed: at least not every time.

One is constructed on the first call to a generator .next() method.
On this call, control enters at the top like any other function.  On
subsequent calls ...

> Instead, a resumable and persistent stack frame is "resumed":
> this "resumable stack frame" was created once, sometime in the past:

Very specifically, on the first call

> it is termed, in current python terminology, the generator-iterator.

Calling a generator function returns a generator object that is not
callable but which has a .next() method which is.  The frame is
associated with the .next method.

> 5. When the code in "Generator space" (i.e. the generator-iterator)
> is called, it resumes immediately after where it last 'yield'ed, and
> continues until it 'yield's again, or returns or excepts. When it
> 'yield's, two things happen.
> A: The resumable stack frame is "frozen",
> so that it can later be resumed again. and

This is more something that does not happen - the usual destruction of
the stack frame.  'Freezing' implies that something special is done
that takes time and that would have to be reversed by 'thawing'.
Generators are efficient because yielding leaves the frame as it so
execution can be resumed exactly where left off.

> B: A python object, which may be None, is transferred back to the
caller.

As with normal functions.

> 6. For any call from "Linear Stack space" into "Generator space",
> there is a crossover point, P. When the called code in "Generator
> space" finishes executing, it can only enter back into "Linear stack
> space" through point P: it cannot exit through any other point.
> (According to the current python model).

I'm not sure that this is a helpful way to look at the process..  When
a gen-it.next frame is created or reactivated, it is tacked on to the
end of the linear frame stack just like any other execution frame.  If
it calls another function, yet another frame is added.  When it yields
or returns, it is removed from the chain, just like any other
function, and control passes back the to calling function, just like
any other function.  The only differences are that 'removal' !=
'deletion' (because the gen object holds a reference to the frame, so
ref count does *not* go to 0) and 're-addition' != 'set  execution
pointer to beginning of associated code-object'.

> 7. If any calls are made from "Generator space" into "Linear stack
> space", this leads to the creation of a stack frame, which must be
> destroyed. If the called function/method in "Linear stack space"
then
> calls back into "Generator space", and the "Linear space" function
is
> not allowed to exit naturally, this is essentially unbound
recursion,
> which will lead eventually to a blown stack.

To me, this is unnecessarily confusing.  For some reason, you see and
present generators as more special than they are.  They are resumable
functions, and they are resumable mostly because yield does not
disable.  I don't believe they do anything that cannot be done with
class methods.  They are just easier to write (usually) and faster to
execute.

Indeed, I think it possibly useful for understanding generators to
think of a def statement with yield in the body as being something
like a syntactically condensed version of a  class statement iterator
template with standard defs for __init__ and  __iter__ and a
class-specific .next method that is filled in from the body of the
def.  Calling a generator function returns an initialized instance
with the args strored away for later use by the .next method.  Because
the whole package is a fairly common use case, it can be and now has
been optimized so the programmer need only write what is specific  and
the interpreter adds less overhead than normal.

Terry J. Reedy





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Fri Jun 13 21:35:11 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:35:11 -0600
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
In-Reply-To: <dnjkevkeo3evk31jdnmtcclmth8g9otmh9@4ax.com>; from news@manuelmgarcia.com on Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 10:43:22PM +0000
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com> <84fc4588.0306112339.10a4012b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055460443.2394.python-list@python.org> <dnjkevkeo3evk31jdnmtcclmth8g9otmh9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030613193511.E2309@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Manuel Garcia:
  [...]
> The code contains absolutely no 'obfuscation', except the use of '+'
> for string concatenation.  [...]

I think the expression
    (S((x*y)//F))**2
is a bit obfuscated.  Modulo rounding error, it's equivalent to
x*y, nyet?

  [...]
> calculations by 10**5010 (I needed 10 extra decimal places to
> guarantee the accuracy of the 5000 digits, because I haven't
> eliminated rounding errors, but I only need 10 (maybe less, I didn't
> really try) because the iteration is pretty numerically stable)

This is the point which still puzzles me -- I see no obvious
reason for the rounding error not to propagate.  My experiments
with the code haven't turned up a case with more than about five
wrong digits, but I'd expect a proof of stability to be quite
involved.

> What looked like 'geometrical mean' was actually my having to
> implement a square root function with Newton's method, [...]

Geometric mean is a specific case of square root -- the gm of two
numbers is the square root of their product.  Note, incidentally,
that this is the multiplicative equivalent of the arithmetic mean:

    average(a,b) - a = b - average(a,b)
         gm(a,b) / a = b / gm(a,b)

or, in other words,

    gm(a,b) = sqrt(ab) = exp( (log a + log b)/2 )

(The function in question computes the geometric mean of its
argument n and the up-scope scaling factor F.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                 o- @
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      7O   )
                                                               "  (




From kkennedy65 at yahoo.com  Sat Jun  7 10:47:59 2003
From: kkennedy65 at yahoo.com (kk)
Date: 7 Jun 2003 07:47:59 -0700
Subject: Is Python lightweight?
References: <8b336527.0306061439.72d23063@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054940353.6636.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8b336527.0306070647.7962aa74@posting.google.com>

Cliff Wells <LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1054940353.6636.python-list at python.org>...
> On Fri, 2003-06-06 at 15:39, kk wrote:
> > I just read a comment to an article claiming that an application
> > sucked, and the reason was because it was written in Python.  It went
> > on to say that it pulls in some 40MB (I assume into memory), and
> > insinuated that it was "bloat-ware". In case you really care, the
> > application they were talking about is Redhat's "Up To Date" (software
> > update tool).
> 
> Was this on a RH mailing list?  Which one?  I haven't flamed anyone on
> any of the RH lists in a couple of weeks and this seems like a good time
> to get back into the swing <cracks knuckle>.  There are a
> disproportionate number of monkeys pounding on keyboards on a few of
> those lists.  I'd always thought Linux users would be... well, never
> mind.  Apparently the surge in Linux popularity has its downside as
> well.
> 
> > I know this is a silly argument, and I should forget about it. 
> > However, I really have fallen in love with Python even though I
> > haven't been doing it very long.  So, I've been thinking... How would
> > you measure the amount of "bloat" that an application has, on windows?
> >  On Linux?  Has anyone compared the Python interpreter "foot-print" to
> > Java, Perl, PHP, VB, etc... I guess if you had a GUI then you would
> > have to add the size of the GUI libraries (and with Tk, the TCL
> > interpreter).
> 
> Bloatware can be written in any language.  Most likely they are keeping
> huge amounts of data in RAM (dependency trees?) and this has little to
> do with Python.
> 
> Of course, the alternative to bloatware is often noware.  If RH wasn't
> using Python for a lot of their administrative tools (and installer)
> then it seems quite likely that a large number of those tools wouldn't
> even exist.  I can only imagine how complicated up2date would be were it
> written in C.
> 
> > Anyway, my question is, how can I measure this for myself?
> 
> Start Python (without running any Python scripts).  Check memory usage. 
> Anything above and beyond that is the application's fault.  Well, not
> entirely, but you get the idea.

Maybe I should re-format my question. What tool should I use to
measure the memory usage?  On Windows XP, I have tried Performance
Monitor, and it doesn't have anything obvious to me.  I'm sure I just
don't know how to use it properly.  Is there another tool?  Is there
an API call that could tell me memory usage at any given point,
preferably by process?

The post was a response to the following article:
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3714



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun  3 14:27:58 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:27:58 -0600
Subject: Variable Modifications in a class
In-Reply-To: <3EDCE440.8030009@antares.enst-bretagne.fr>; from Anish.Mehta@enst-bretagne.fr on Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 08:09:04PM +0200
References: <mailman.1054658001.11458.python-list@python.org> <3EDCDB05.8E12F97@hotmail.com> <3EDCE440.8030009@antares.enst-bretagne.fr>
Message-ID: <20030603122758.A1502@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Mehta, Anish:
>   Thanks for the explaination.  That point is clear and also one thing 
> more is that when we have the same piece of code in c , and when we do 
> 'c = b' then copy constructor is invoked. [...]

(Nitpick: That's C++.)

  [...]
> I am writing a program in python which is already written in C and in 
> that lot of instances are modifying the variables of the some structure 
> like this:
  [...]
>   b.a = 5;
>   b.b = 10;
> 
>   c = b;
> 
>   c.a = 30;
>   c.b = 40;

In this example you're changing all the attributes of the copy, so
you might as well just make a new object from scratch.

    class AB(object):
        def __init__(self, a, b):
            self.a = a
            self.b = b

    x = AB(5, 10)
    y = AB(30, 40)

If, however, you want to change only some attributes of the copy,
letting others take their values from the original, then asking
for a copy explicitly is indicated:

    import copy
    x = AB(5, 10)
    y = copy.copy(x)
    y.a = 30

It's not clear from your example whether copy.copy or
copy.deepcopy is appropriate.  Perhaps neither is appropriate, and
you want your own copying logic:

    class AB(object):
        def __init__(self, a, b):
            # as before
        def copy(self):
            # construct a new AB as desired and return it

    x = AB(5, 10)
    y = x.copy()
    y.a = 30

-- 
Steven Taschuk                          staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Its force is immeasurable.  Even Computer cannot determine it."
                           -- _Space: 1999_ episode "Black Sun"




From bgporter at artlogic.com  Mon Jun  9 12:08:11 2003
From: bgporter at artlogic.com (Brett g Porter)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 12:08:11 -0400
Subject: cut off \n
In-Reply-To: <3ee4af26$0$45179$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>
References: <3EE4ACCD.70000@gmx.net> <3ee4af26$0$45179$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>
Message-ID: <XOScnWqkycckLXmjXTWcqw@comcast.com>

Andrew Wilkinson wrote:
> Tom wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi,
> 
> def remove_last_newline(line):
>     if line[-1] == "\n":
>         return line[:-1]
>     else:
>         return line
> 
> newlist = map(remove_last_newline, yourlist)
> 
> Unfortunatly without a single line if-expression in Python I can't think of
> a single line solution to this problem.

If there's not going to be any other whitespace at the end of the line 
that you might want to keep, the strip() or rstrip() string methods are 
useful:

 >>> s = "this is a string ending in a newline\n"
 >>> s
'this is a string ending in a newline\n'
 >>> s.strip()
'this is a string ending in a newline'
 >>> s2 = "no newline here!!"
 >>> s2.strip()
'no newline here!!'
 >>> s3 = "   this is a test   \n"
 >>> s3
'   this is a test   \n'
 >>> s3.strip()
'this is a test'
 >>> s3.rstrip()
'   this is a test'
 >>>




From ss3canon at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 26 21:44:42 2003
From: ss3canon at earthlink.net (Mike)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:44:42 GMT
Subject: List of lists
Message-ID: <ekNKa.66745$Io.6262503@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

How do I extract a list of lists from a user defined function and print the
results as strings for each list?





From oki at gk-a.com  Tue Jun  3 09:41:24 2003
From: oki at gk-a.com (oki mikito)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:41:24 +0900
Subject: passing a shell argument
Message-ID: <11629CCB-95C9-11D7-A50F-000393C7968E@gk-a.com>

Hi

I wonder if there's a simple way to pass a shell argument in a tcsh 
environment... something like:

[~/bin] moki% process1 ./*.txt

I'm currently using `raw_input`, and at each execution of the python 
script I type in the file name... & you know how painful it is.

I looked into the os bunch & found nothing. Could someone guide me to 
the correct path??? Thank you very much in advance!

Yours,

Oki Mikito

==
Oki Mikito
GK Associates, Inc.
oki at gk-a.com





From ed at membled.com  Sun Jun  8 06:55:46 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 08 Jun 2003 11:55:46 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0306070837.789f2a9f@posting.google.com> <l13cilipsy.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055032216.26858.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l1brx8hm8d.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:

>>A conditional operator would be nice, but contravene the important
>>rule that statements (if, return, etc) can skip over blocks of code
>>and control what is evaluated, while expressions cannot.  [...]
>
>The existing logical operators short-circuit:
>
>    >>> 0 and 1/0
>    0
>    >>> 1 or 1/0
>    1

Oh.  I thought someone said on this newsgroup only a few days ago that
they did not, when I mentioned that

    cond and x or y

is a well-known substitute for a conditional operator like C's
(cond ? x : y) or Haskell's (if cond then x else y).  Someone said
that it wouldn't work, because x and y would be evaluated in either
case.

But you're right, they do short-circuit, and so there is no need for a
separate conditional operator (provided you consider the and-or trick
a readable idiom).

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From code at joecheng.com  Tue Jun  3 08:15:54 2003
From: code at joecheng.com (Joe Cheng)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 05:15:54 -0700
Subject: GIL and uniprocessor machines
Message-ID: <20d6d41f.0306030415.18f4c093@posting.google.com>

Hi everyone,

(I'm a Python newbie so please bear with me...)

I was wondering about the effect of the global interpreter lock on
single-processor machines.  Clearly on a multi-processor machine, not
being able to have each processor crunching bytecode instructions is a
(potential) bottleneck.  But a (non-hyperthreading) single-processor
machine can only deal with one thread at a time anyway, right?  So the
GIL should actually not be a restriction at all in that case?

This might be a dumb question... sorry.  I am a Java/C# programmer who
wants to add Python to the toolbox, and I am trying to establish what
kinds of problems are most appropriate for Java over Python and vice
versa.

Thanks-

joe



From uwe at oss4u.com  Mon Jun  9 15:19:26 2003
From: uwe at oss4u.com (Uwe C. Schroeder)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 12:19:26 -0700
Subject: py2exe and dynamic modules
References: <ve9ldqsa3h1d9d@corp.supernews.com> <3EE4D985.B091FA88@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <ve9ne08860r10a@corp.supernews.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> "Uwe C. Schroeder" wrote:
>> 
>> I checked everything and it seems I'm the only one trying to do this.
>> I have a large application that dynamically loads plugins.
>> There is no way I can say at runtime what names the plugins have, so
>> loading them statically is not an option.
>> The plugins are quite simple and contain one class only.
>> With a full python installation it's no problem to load them using
>> __import__. However in a py2exe deployment the importer is replaced, so
>> __import__ won't work anymore.
>> Also the directory where the plugins are stored is user dependant (on
>> windows in the profile tree) and is determined at runtime. The plugins
>> don't even exist at application start, they are transfered on request.
>> 
>> What I can say is that for one user the directory is always the same.
>> Is there a way to deploy this using py2exe (or whatever, although I like
>> py2exe for it's simplicity) ?
>> 
>> I can modify the program to store the plugins in a fixed place - but I
>> don't like this too much since then deploying it on *nix is a hassle for
>> access right reasons.
>> 
>> Is there any way to tell py2exe's importer to look in a certain directory
>> ? as said: currently I just add the directory to sys.path and do an
>> __import__.
> 
> Have you actually tried doing this?  I just made a file that imports
> another
> file after dynamically adding a directory to sys.path.  Then I ran py2exe
> on the first script to generate an executable.  It rightly complains that
> it cannot find the second script "The following modules were not found:"
> but since that's just a warning, it creates the .exe file.
> 
> Then I run the .exe file and it quietly finds the necessary .py script
> in the specified directory and imports it.
> 
> It seems py2exe does a graceful fallback to the usual sort of import
> processing with sys.path, so I don't think you should have too much
> trouble with this.
> 
> -Peter

Nope, doesn't work for me.
The problem is, that I don't use a normal "import blah" statement, since I
don't know the name yet. AFAIK py2exe actually creates a dict of modules t
load, so if it doesn't find it at compile time, it's still in the dict -
making it possible to do a later import. If the module wasn't specified at
compile time it won't be found.

-- 
        UC

--
Open Source Solutions 4U, LLC   2570 Fleetwood Drive
Phone:  +1 650 872 2425         San Bruno, CA 94066
Cell:   +1 650 302 2405         United States
Fax:    +1 650 872 2417



From fjoanis at videotron.ca  Mon Jun  2 07:47:36 2003
From: fjoanis at videotron.ca (Francis Joanis)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 04:47:36 -0700
Subject: sys.settrace() and stopping the Python interpreter
Message-ID: <72e160f2.0306020347.2c19ca40@posting.google.com>

Hello everyone,

I am relatively new to Python and I am looking forward to embed it
under a C++ application (gcc/linux) to add scripting capability.

I've seen various posts about being able or not to stop the execution
of a running Python script based on whatever conditions.

>From what I've seen there is no built-in ways of doing this directly
as a Python feature since it was not designed/implemented.

On the other hand, I've experimented with the sys.settrace function
(in order to do some condition checking then to raise an exception to
stop the interpreter) but from what I've seen, setting up a trace
function won't take care of Python's built in functions (like
'print').

I'd like to know if there is a way to set a trace function to process
every instructions?

Thanks,

Francis Joanis



From icarroll at pobox.com  Thu Jun 26 23:17:04 2003
From: icarroll at pobox.com (W Isaac Carroll)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:17:04 -0700
Subject: Keys order in dictionaries
References: <20030626232616.GD12627@bobas.nowytarg.pl>
Message-ID: <3EFBB730.70807@pobox.com>

Brainwashed wrote:
> And the second thing that bothers me is assigning multiple values at once
> from dictionary. I mean:
> 
>    x, y, z = dict         # where dict = { 'xx':.., 'yy':.., 'zz':.. }
> 
> This works okay for me, if I know that dict is always of size 3 and there
> is the same order of keys:values.

Depending on the order things come out of a dictionary is a bad idea.

> But now I came to the point when this dict can have both - 3 or 4 items 
> (same as this example from above, 'id' is the additional item that is not
> always present). And I want to assign x, y, z like I did before, but ommit
> id value. Is it possible to do at once, with some multiple assignment ? 
> Maybe there is a way to specify what three items should be taken from dict
> and assigned to x, y, z? I know, I can always do something like:
>   x = dict['xx']
>   y = dict['yy'] and so on, but I'm just curious if some more complicated 
> multiple assignment is possible in Python.
 >
 > How would you solve this problem?

First of all, remember that "dict" is a built-in function in Python, so 
it shouldn't be used as a variable name.

How about

     x, y, z = [foodict[key] for key in (key1, key2, key3)]

or

     x, y, z = foodict[key1], foodict[key2], foodict[key3]

TTFN





From nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net  Sun Jun  8 17:08:55 2003
From: nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net (Kevin Carlson)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 17:08:55 -0400
Subject: using urllib or httplib to post with ENCTYPE=mulitpart/form-data
In-Reply-To: <87of1cs8jq.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <mailman.1054758548.9033.python-list@python.org> <87he751jla.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1054782491.12301.python-list@python.org> <bbmlee$kk6$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <mailman.1054823291.20112.python-list@python.org> <87of1cs8jq.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bsNEa.15691$7l6.12257@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com>

John J. Lee wrote:
> Kevin Carlson <khcarlso at bellsouth.net> writes:
> [...]
> 
>>The response from the POST returns a cookie that I need to pass along
>>to the host on the subsequent request.  I don't see and methods in
>>httplib to deal with cookies directly, nor can I find any in the
>>HTTPResponse.py source that allow me to extract the cookie from the
>>response.  I'm sure I'm missing something.  Any additional pointers?
> 
> 
> http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientCookie/
> 

Is there any way to use ClientCookie with httplib rather that urllib or 
urllib2?





From gunnaran at stud.math.ntnu.no  Fri Jun 20 03:29:37 2003
From: gunnaran at stud.math.ntnu.no (Gunnar Staff)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:29:37 +0200
Subject: Run a linux program through python
Message-ID: <bcuddk$m55$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>

I would like ti run a linux program through a 
python script. Do enyone know the syntax for 
running a OS program from python?

Assume I'll run
$ convert fromfile tofile

Gunnar



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jun  2 16:59:51 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 22:59:51 +0200
Subject: A Python application server?
In-Reply-To: <bbgbl2$m7v$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> <3edb9bf2$0$49104$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <bbgbl2$m7v$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3edbbac7$0$49109$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Duncan Smith wrote:
> "Irmen de Jong" <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message
> news:3edb9bf2$0$49104$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl...
>>Will a web-based solution work (pure HTML pages)? Then all you need is a
> 
> web
> 
>>browser on the clients. Leave all the difficult stuff on the server.
>>
> 
> 
> At then end of the day, I think so.  I think he currently uses an applet
> because he wants to display a clock for his students' benefit.
> 
> Duncan

That's it? Only a clock? That is very easy to do with a bit of Javascript!
A digital clock, that is. Adding a few images and perhaps some DHTML,
you might be able to create an analog clock too :-)

Or a dynamically generated image that is refreshed once every 5 minutes
or so..

Irmen




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jun 17 15:43:00 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 15:43:00 -0400
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055859955.6466.python-list@python.org> <87ptlcbr3u.fsf@gvdnet.dk> <mailman.1055874696.24425.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcnr04$r45$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1055874696.24425.python-list at python.org>,
Dirk Gerrits  <dirk at gerrits.homeip.net> wrote:
>Martin Christensen wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>>"Dirk" == Dirk Gerrits <dirk at gerrits.homeip.net> writes:
>> 
>> Dirk> ... you are forced to use a variety of programming languages at
>> Dirk> school in a variety of projects, and for each and everyone of
>> Dirk> them you explain to your friends how much easier it would have
>> Dirk> been to solve this in Python instead of the language we were
>> Dirk> supposed to use.
>> 
>> I speak from experience when I say that this can quickly get on
>> people's nerves. Whenever I mention Python, it is always accompanied
>> by loud groans from my friends. :-)
>
>Well I've already been able to convert one of my friends this way. :) 
>And perhaps more will follow.
>
>But yes, I get a lot of groans too. ;)

Same here, though mostly I'm making comments over on alt.poly.  I've
managed to convert a couple of people.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Fri Jun 27 10:37:06 2003
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:37:06 -0400
Subject: Exposing object model in Python?
In-Reply-To: <bdgvk5$sid7t$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>
References: <bdffi1$skho2$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bdgvk5$sid7t$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3efc5640$0$3929$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>

MK wrote:
> "MK" <MK at foo.com> wrote
> 
> [...]
> 
> Thanks for your input. Apologies for not being clear enough.
> 
> I'm writing a classical desktop application, using wxPython
> and some other libraries. I'm interested to expose its
> object model a la Microsoft's VBA. That is, I want to allow
> my users to tinker with the app, i.e. write their own macros
> in Python in a miniature IDE, within the app. I'd also like to ship
> the program as a standalone app, using py2exe.

First thing, if you don't have Python Programming on Win32 you need to 
purchase it post haste.

Second thing - the problem you are going to find is having COM talk to 
the wxPython application.  wxPython when run, expects to be the main 
thread of execution which means that it is slightly difficult for COM to 
start and talk to wxPython.  I have "solved" this problem using the 
following methodology.

I

COM Server
py2exe wrapped
using windows registry
to keep track of where
GUI executable is
stored.

   ^
   |
   |  Com Server Starts
   |  GUI and connects
   |  through sockets
   |
   V
II

GUI is Threaded and
periodically checks
for commands on the
socket.

Note that the COM Server blocks when sending commands.  This is mainly 
since I don't really understand COM threading.  This shouldn't be too 
much of a problem though.




From ketil at apal.ii.uib.no  Wed Jun 25 03:37:35 2003
From: ketil at apal.ii.uib.no (Ketil Z Malde)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 09:37:35 +0200
Subject: Contest Registration (was: Re: ICFP Programming Contest (ii))
References: <egfzm6gx6s.fsf@sefirot.ii.uib.no>
Message-ID: <egbrwm4ngg.fsf@apal.ii.uib.no>

Planning to join the ICFP Programming Contest this week-end? Register your
email address NOW, to receive announcements from the organizing team,
including the problem as soon as it is released!

Just visit icfpcontest.org and click on "Contest Mailing List".

-kzm
-- 
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants



From just at xs4all.nl  Mon Jun  2 16:20:43 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 22:20:43 +0200
Subject: Python get's a mention on University Challenge
References: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <VYNCa.66$5L6.15@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <just-E9924B.22204302062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <VYNCa.66$5L6.15 at news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>,
 John Ochiltree <joch at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> "What object oriented scripting language was created by Guido Van Rossum 
> at Stichting Mathematisch Centrum?" I think that's right, or more or less.

Wow... If anyone got that on tape and could post a (link to a) capture, 
that would be awesome!

Just



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Fri Jun 20 00:54:57 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:54:57 GMT
Subject: testing two lists for equality
References: <3064b51d.0306191140.3d4094fe@posting.google.com> <3EF2169D.3590ECBD@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <BswIa.3239$38.1069@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

> > If x and y are both lists (or tuples), is the expression
> >
> > (x == y)
> >
> > true if and only if len(x) = len(y) and all of the corresponding
> > elements in x and y are the same?
> >
> > I did not see this behavior documented in "Python Essential
> > Reference", but it makes sense and agrees with a few experiments I
> > did.
>
> http://python.org/doc/current/ref/comparisons.html might help.
>
> It basically implies what you said above, if you take "lexicographically"
> to mean something like "item by item".

Do you think docs should be changed from:

            Tuples and lists are compared lexicographically using
            comparison of corresponding items.

To:
            ... compared by sequentially comparing corresponding items.

Or something like:

           ...compared sequentially using comparison of corresponding items


Raymond Hettinger





From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sat Jun 14 15:18:49 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 15:18:49 -0400
Subject: wxPython download
References: <UjGGa.89780$pR3.1904020@news1.tin.it>
 <3EEB440F.49A1D3C2@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <ZU36+ks/KL6C089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <3EEB440F.49A1D3C2 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Lorenzo Bolognini wrote:
>>
>> didn't know how to report it to the wxPython coders but it seems (at least
>> to me and someone else) that wxPython downloads (all versions) aren't
>> working @ sf.net
>
>Works, here, now.  If by "aren't working" you meant that you couldn't
>select a mirror, start a download, and see the progress dialog box showing
>data streaming to your machine, then either it's fixed or it's not a
>general problem.
>
>I didn't actually complete the 6.72MB download that I started, nor did
>I try to run the resulting file.  (This was with the Py2.2 version of
>the Win32 wxPython, BTW.)

   Don't know what made me so groggy, but I spent an ugly
day at Sourceforge because I'd forgotten that selecting a
mirror via the obvious radio buttons has about zero to do
with downloading the file.

   To download, you have to click the little box icon to the
right of the file descriptions.

   'Hide the Hyperlink' .. one game that Edward Albee forgot
to put into _Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?_.

        Regards.        Mel.



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jun  4 17:25:49 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 23:25:49 +0200
Subject: smtplib and SSL
In-Reply-To: <4tnsdvs8voamobbpq0tf200hvsijn8tmcs@4ax.com>
References: <rj7qdv8ovhbgadaoenfi18hhelrlkaqgas@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1054681447.28648.python-list@python.org>
	<3mmqdv0afmoq1m04if4ejjpk2rpgmvl95q@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1054719126.23142.python-list@python.org>
	<vmgsdvccl9fuecok237c6dt3v1kigb408m@4ax.com>
	<4tnsdvs8voamobbpq0tf200hvsijn8tmcs@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EDE63DD.9030600@ghaering.de>

Michael Prager wrote:
> Michael Prager <Mike.Prager at noaa.gov> wrote:
>>Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:
>>
>>>Please post the output of this script:
>>>
>>>#v+
>>>import smtplib
>>>
>>>s = smtplib.SMTP("myserver")
>>>s.debuglevel = 5
>>>s.login("myusername", "mypassword")
>>>#v-
>>
> 
> Authentication is now working perfectly, perhaps because I
> updated from Python 2.2.2 to 2.2.3?

Yep. Apparently your SMTP server only offered the LOGIN authentication 
(which I added to smtplib and I fought to get it backported to 2.2-maint 
a while ago). My guess is that we're talking about M$ Exchange here :->

-- Gerhard




From x at x.com  Fri Jun 20 06:04:37 2003
From: x at x.com (Peter Brown)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:04:37 +1000
Subject: Trying To Get Python To Run on Apache v2.0.4.6 on Windows
Message-ID: <3ef2dc20@usenet.per.paradox.net.au>

I have tried to no avail to get it to run on Apache v2 on Windows XP.

Can anyone point me in any direction.

I've been trying to get v3.0.3 of mod_python to run on the same setup as
well and as soon as I start the server up again after modifying the
httpd.config file, the server fails to restart.

I'm probably missing something but I've been trawling tehw eb for ages to
try and find some decent instructions to no avail.

Thanks
Peter

-- 




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From cswiger at mac.com  Wed Jun  4 21:46:02 2003
From: cswiger at mac.com (Chuck Swiger)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 21:46:02 -0400
Subject: nntplib body question
In-Reply-To: <Xns9391238574336JanC@213.224.134.107>
References: <879Da.1139848$uT2.175876@news.easynews.com> <m3isrmh3by.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <7xhe7678dk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <Xns9391238574336JanC@213.224.134.107>
Message-ID: <3EDEA0DA.1010903@mac.com>

JanC wrote:
[ ... ]
> A normal Usenet article won't be bigger than 1 MiB, as many servers don't 
> allow that.  Bigger articles would be dropped by those servers, resulting 
> in bad propagation and the need for lots of reposts.

Agreed.  I'm not sure that "Usenet as binary file distribution" is a good idea; 
I very much prefer the notion of news as "messages sent by a person for people".

Anyway, note that some news servers-- M$ Exchange with Outlook as the email/news 
user-agent in particular-- may aggregate multi-part Usenet articles into one. 
That might result in multimedia and such becoming a much bigger article when 
actually viewed from a reader that supports whatever or other this NNTP 
extension is called.

-- 
-Chuck






From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Tue Jun 17 17:16:24 2003
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:16:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com> <bcnova$ma5$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <bcnpei$96r$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <bco0f3$jvp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Krzysztof Stachlewski <stach at fr.pl> pisze:

>> More than that - unlike Kerberos, Python can not be taken by any
>> particular company and become its "flagship", while being screwed.
>>
>> Software Craftsmen, please, consider this fact when choosing a license
>> for your product - only GNU GPL guarantees that your code will not be
>> "taken away" by any company.
> 
> Python is not GPL (something has changed from yesterday?)
> It is GPL compatible. This is not the same.

Did I say "Python Craftsmen"? No, I didn't...

I mean, that any of you, that produces any of software that is intended
to be freely available, you should consider publishing it under GNU GPL,
since this is the only license, that guarantees anything. There are
loobies that say that BSD licensing is more "business friendly" - in
fact, you can see what "business friendliness" means in recent SCO vs.
IBM case - this all is due to "Open Source friendliness" to business. If
we follow straight rules of Free Software, we will newer face such a
shame.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
Registered Linux User #-1
http://www.zgoda.biz/ JID:zgoda at chrome.pl http://zgoda.jogger.pl/



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jun  2 03:26:02 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 03:26:02 -0400
Subject: Defensive programming
References: <mailman.1054494905.7743.python-list@python.org> <7xn0h11gpu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <W2zCa.25460$da1.5950@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <jvucnTvy0ueWYUejXTWcoQ@comcast.com>

"Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters" <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote
> Well... for Python, I'd rather have a hash with excellent typical
case
> performance than a typically slower one with more collision
resistance.

"Neil Schemenauer" <nas-usenet at arctrix.com> wrote in message
news:W2zCa.25460$da1.5950 at nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
> Why should everyone have to use a slower or more complicated hash
> function?

On the pydev list, Guido guessed that '99.99%' of Python programs are
probably not subject tosuch attacks and stated that since CPython uses
hashes so much in its core operations, he would not slow down the many
for the benefit of the few, who are free ...

> People who really care can use a custom __hash__ or
> use a different container (like a tree).

to do exactly this.

 >If you are worried
> about DoS attacks then you have a lot more problems than just a
> deterministic hash function.

This has been Tim's point.

Terry J. Reedy






From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jun 15 18:04:21 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:04:21 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> 
> In Python, you don't declare the type of a variable, so AFAIK there is
> no way for the interpreter to check that you are calling functions
> with variables of the correct type.

This whole discussion has taken place, repeatedly, in the past,
so if you would like to check the archives you'll find a few
dozen versions of the question and the lengthy threads that ensued.

> Calling functions with invalid arguments is one of the commonest
> programming errors

Debatable.  Not true in my experience.

> I worry that
> Python's convenience in writing small programs comes at the cost of
> making bug-free large programs more difficult to write.

Actually, Python seems to make writing both small and large programs
easier, and especially (and more importantly) makes *reading* them
much easier, which eases maintenance.

> I have only been programming in Python for a few weeks -- am I right
> to worry?
> Are there techniques to ensure that functions are called with
> appropriate arguments?

I'm on the side that says unit testing is a better way of catching
such problems, and Python makes unit testing much easier than many
other languages, so it's a match made in heaven (or is that Holland? ;-).

-Peter



From ejy712 at comcast.net  Sun Jun  8 01:01:18 2003
From: ejy712 at comcast.net (Ed Young)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 01:01:18 -0400
Subject: Twisted - howto transport megabytes?
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.08.05.01.17.794849@comcast.net>

I am exploring Twisted for use as the basis for an 
application to application data transporter (queueing).

When receiving large messages (multiple megabytes), I can
use the dataReceived method to get the messages piecemeal.
Since file writes can be blocking, how can I write the
received pieces to a file in a non-blocking fashion?

When sending large messages (multiple megabytes), well,
I haven't figured that out yet.  Does the transport
method accept a filehandle from which it will feed as
it needs to?

The Twisted documentation is twisting my mind <sick_grin>.
All hints appreciated...



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jun  6 13:38:36 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:38:36 -0400
Subject: Postfix/Prefix Operators (++,--)
References: <mailman.1054878191.16140.python-list@python.org> <3EE05E36.40DF739F@engcorp.com> <bbq415$om3$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <3EE0B4D5.736EE894@engcorp.com> <bbqe21$l2h$1@ginger.mathworks.com>
Message-ID: <3EE0D19C.7D7FFCA0@engcorp.com>

Joshua Marshall wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> ...
> >> ++/-- can be added to Python, and could act in a way that wouldn't
> >> surprise C or Java programmers.  There really isn't any conceptual
> >> difference between references to immutabe ints and C/Java primitive
> >> ints.
> 
> > How would the error generated when the C or Java programmer wrote
> > the following code not surprise him or her?
> 
> >   c = 1
> >   a = c++
> 
> I wouldn't design ++ to error in this case:
> 
>   >>> c = 1
>   >>> a = c++
>   >>> a
>   1
>   >>> c
>   2

Except that that violates a fundamental aspect of Python, which while
I can't describe it in the best technical terms as I don't ever work 
at the compiler level, could be said as "you are rebinding a name (c)
without using an assignment statement".  I'm not sure whether there
is ever a case where this is true in regular Python, and I suspect
that if you were to attempt to implement this, it would require 
fundamental changes that would make Python not Python...  so I'm still
confident there's "no chance of having it, and no reason to have it."

-Peter



From rpgnmets at aol.com  Fri Jun 13 01:20:03 2003
From: rpgnmets at aol.com (Rob Renaud)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 22:20:03 -0700
Subject: Licenses
References: <mailman.1055448445.2542.python-list@python.org> <slrnbeiemu.js2.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <3759308d.0306122120.5213ae92@posting.google.com>

Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> wrote in message news:<slrnbeiemu.js2.bignose-hates-spam at iris.polar.local>...
> On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:06:47 -0400, Sean Gilbertson wrote:
> > for now I would like some sort of license that allows the user access
> > to the code, but not to modify or distribute it.
> 
> IANAL, TINLA.
> 
> Since you're distributing the code to people, you're allowing those
> people to have it.  If they have it, they're allowed to read it.
> Copyright law places no restrictions on viewing a work; thus, a
> copyright license does not have the power to permit or deny it.
> 
> If you don't want people to copy or redistribute (actions which current
> copyright law does reserve to you), a simple "Copying and redistribution
> prohibited" should do as a reminder.
> 
> > I certainly appreciate the GPL, and maybe I'll use it for this project
> > later on, but for now I want some freedom before I commit all-the-way
> > to an "open source" license like the GPL.
> 
> You want to have freedom, but you don't want your users to have freedom?
> I find it hard to sympathise with that position.

I can't stand people who try to protect their ability to make money
from their programs either.



From gus.tabares at verizon.net  Mon Jun 16 20:34:55 2003
From: gus.tabares at verizon.net (Gus Tabares)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:34:55 -0400
Subject: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions? (os.chmod() not  working properly?)
In-Reply-To: <3EEE608B.57C5AC7D@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <LFEJJJNJEBIGPEPEPLIPIEIBCAAA.gus.tabares@verizon.net>

Peter,

	os.chmod(file, 666) seems to work quite proficiently. It might be possible
that it is converted (as that is easy to do).


Gus

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Peter Hansen
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 8:28 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions?
(os.chmod() not working properly?)


Gus Tabares wrote:
>
> OK I lied. It's 666:)

In any case, aren't these supposed to be meaningful only as octal
values?  So you'd need 0666?  I'm not actually going by the docs
here, just memory.  777 and 666 would be extremely weird parameters
to pass in otherwise (i.e. as decimal).

-Peter
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From edreamleo at charter.net  Mon Jun 23 21:45:06 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:45:06 -0500
Subject: Questions re subclassing at "load time"
References: <vfb68sik4m4v86@corp.supernews.com> <2259b0e2.0306230423.4c7fe770@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vffbac8rsoqc83@corp.supernews.com>

> your problem reminds me of a paper on mixins by Chuck
Esterbrook that you may find interesting:

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=4540

Thanks for this link.  It is on my ever-growing "things to read" list.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From 2002 at weholt.org  Tue Jun 24 10:34:37 2003
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt ( PRIVAT ))
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:34:37 +0200
Subject: Choosing the right database-system for a small project
References: <uAUJa.1825$os2.25697@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <3kZJa.1903$os2.26484@news2.e.nsc.no>

Now I've looked closer at SQLite and MetaKit and they both seem great. I've
looked for some sort of comparison but with little luck. Can anybody comment
on what would
be the pros and cons when the two are compared to each other ?

I liked the fact that SQLite worked like a real SQL-database, but I also
liked the way records turned into well-known Python-objects when fetched in
MetaKit.

Any comment, especially on speed and limitations found when using these two
are interesting.

Regards,
Thomas


"Thomas Weholt ( PRIVAT )" <2002 at weholt.org> wrote in message
news:uAUJa.1825$os2.25697 at news2.e.nsc.no...
> I've got a rather small project, small in the sense that there's not a lot
> of different tables needed in the database/storage-system, but there will
be
> alot of data and the clients must be able to scan thru huge amounts of
data
> very fast ( Not serial scanning, but lookups by key, preferrably several
> keys pr record, ie. I need to lookup people both by SSN and by
> first/last-name etc. )
>
> So far I've used MySQL, mainly because I need something that installs
easily
> on both Linux and Windows. But I don't need a big user-management system,
I
> need something light, a bit more flexible than shelve, and as I said
earlier
> I need to lookup data by several key-fields.
>
> I've also looked at MetaKit and this seems like just my kind of thing.
Easy
> to use and install. Remember that I've only looked at the docs, not tried
> anything for real. Another contender is SQLLite. It's very important that
> the system is easy to install. Anything more than "copy these files in
this
> folder" or run this install-program on Windows is unacceptable, and
anything
> more than configure/make/make install without lots of other library
> dependancies on Linux is also out of the question.
>
> Can anybody share experiences with these solutions? Speed, flexibility,
> installation issues? I intend to use this with Twisted so if there are any
> blocking issues I need to consider please let me know. Any other system I
> should take a look at ??
>
> Thanks a bunch,
> Thomas
>
>





From kuntzagk at sulawesi.bioinf.mdc-berlin.de  Thu Jun  5 06:55:44 2003
From: kuntzagk at sulawesi.bioinf.mdc-berlin.de (kuntzagk at sulawesi.bioinf.mdc-berlin.de)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:55:44 +0200
Subject: Iteration through a text file.
References: <1f9c7669.0306041001.e5b72ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbn7q7$b5l24$1@fu-berlin.de>

On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:01:05 +0000, marcus wrote:
[Code snipped]
> I know the code is flawed, and it appears that line just keeps
> incrementing from where it left off (which I thought was good), and I
> think that makes sense to me.
> 
> What I want to know is how do I point line back to the area it started
> the inner loop with?
> 
> After Seeing the first "Server" and finding no availability, how do I
> go to the next "Server?"

Why don't you just read the whole file into _one_ string and split it at
every occurence of 'Server'? 
Now you can search the splitet string for servername and availability.

Murple



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Thu Jun 26 00:31:37 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:31:37 GMT
Subject: add empty directory using zipfile?
References: <rsmjfvkmc2s46abk236uao8malat1t7q83@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93A64264F1909JanC@213.118.38.24>

Tung Wai Yip <tungwaiyip at yahoo.com> schreef:

> Can I add empty directory using zipfile? When I try to add a directory
> it complains that it is not a file.

ZIP files can't contain directories, only files and the paths to those 
files.  A workaround might be to put an empty file in the directory.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From pwatson at redlinepy.com  Tue Jun 17 11:01:47 2003
From: pwatson at redlinepy.com (Paul Watson)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:01:47 -0500
Subject: Bug (??) in the time module?
References: <_wuHa.4165$87.2880721@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3eef2d20$1_1@themost.net>

 I get the same result using Python 2.2.2 on Linux.  However, I get a
different result using 2.3.b1 on Windows 2000.  If you are going to persist
a timestamp, it might be a good idea to write it in UTC.  Using ISO 8601
format might be a good idea as well.

C:\src\python\t>cat tim.py
#! /usr/bin/python

import time

thetime = time.time()
timeString = time.ctime(thetime)
print timeString
timeTuple = time.strptime(timeString)
print timeTuple
thetime2 = time.mktime(timeTuple)
timeString2 = time.ctime(thetime2)
print timeString2

C:\src\python\t>tim.py
Tue Jun 17 09:48:01 2003
(2003, 6, 17, 9, 48, 1, 1, 168, -1)
Tue Jun 17 09:48:01 2003


"Anoop Aryal" <aryal at ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:_wuHa.4165$87.2880721 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
> Hi,
> i'm not sure if this is the right place to post it. if it's not, i would
> appriciate it if you could point me to the right newsgroup.
>
> i had needed to do some time manipulation -- take the unix time value,
> convert it to localtime (human readable format), save it to a text file.
> later, read it from the text file, convert it back to unix time format
> for comparisions. it seems that in this round trip, i'm ahead by an
> hour. i'm guessing it's got something to do with daylight savings. but
> here's the code that illustrates the problem:
> ---------------------------
> #!/usr/bin/python
>
> import time
>
> thetime = time.time()
> timeString = time.ctime(thetime)
> print timeString
> timeTuple = time.strptime(timeString)
> print timeTuple
> thetime2 = time.mktime(timeTuple)
> timeString2 = time.ctime(thetime2)
> print timeString2
>
> -----------------------------
> and here's the output i get:
>
> Mon Jun 16 10:45:50 2003
> (2003, 6, 16, 10, 45, 50, 0, 167, 0)
> Mon Jun 16 11:45:50 2003
>
> ----------------------------
>
> i'm on python 2.2.2 on an up2dated rh9.
>
> i've used localtime() etc in place of ctime(). but can't figure this one
> out. it's good up to the tuple returned by strptime(). i would assume
> that both mktime() and  ctime() (i think the culprit here is mktime())
> would 'do the right thing' without extensive parameter passing for this
> type of default conversions... it this a bug?
>
> thanks,
> anoop
> aryal at ameritech.net
>





From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jun 18 09:15:11 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 14:15:11 +0100
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3EEDEDBE.BCB56D6E@engcorp.com> <HGMnCw.5tM@arl.mil> <un0gg6ve3.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <873ci7o7c0.fsf@pobox.com>

David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> writes:

> Brandon Corfman <bcorfman at amsaa.army.mil> writes:
> 
> > I think the problem is that a C++/Java programmer regards the Python
> > command prompt as little more than a calculator or a place to type
> > "prog.main()". I know I did at first.
> 
> Ever try to write a class with more than 2 methods at the
> command-line?  After screwing it up several times I always revert to
> emacs <wink>.

I agree with this.  I don't know what all the fuss is about with the
interactive prompt.  I certainly do use it, quite frequently, but
don't see a huge difference here between Python and statically-typed
compiled languages (especially given a good IDE -- like unix + emacs
etc.).

Maybe only me and David make lots of mistakes at the interactive
prompt ;-)


John



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jun  1 22:31:44 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 02:31:44 GMT
Subject: reStructured Text - suitable for non-documentation?
Message-ID: <slrnbdle2r.h32.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

Howdy all,

I'm engaged on a low-priority, long-term project to "refactor" my web
pages.  I don't want the content in a database; I'm much more
comfortable editing text files.  However, I do want content to be
completely separate from presentation markup or code.

So I've been investigating the various plain-text markup schemes
available.  I.e., the ones where the idea is that the source be
reasonably readable as a plain-text document, and existing plain-text
"markup" conventions be leveraged as much as possible.  The Wiki
schemes, the BB schemes, et al are all in this group.  None of them are
particularly satisfactory though.

My latest investigation is of reStructured Text, the proposed docutil
markup scheme:

  <http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html>

This seems a well thought out scheme, with coverage of most of the
things I want to do in web pages.

So, some questions:

Who is using reStructured Text actively?
Who's using it for things other than Python documentation?
How applicable do you think it is for non-documentation text?
Are there non-Python tools for processing it (preferably PHP)?
Am I insane for even thinking of such a thing?
Are there better alternatives (i.e. ones specifically designed for
marking up web page content in plain text)?

-- 
 \      Q: "I've heard that Linux causes cancer..."  Torvalds: "That's |
  `\       a filthy lie. Besides, it was only in rats and has not been |
_o__)                        reproduced in humans."  -- Linus Torvalds |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Fri Jun 20 11:23:12 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:23:12 -0700
Subject: testing two lists for equality
References: <3064b51d.0306191140.3d4094fe@posting.google.com> <3EF2169D.3590ECBD@engcorp.com> <BswIa.3239$38.1069@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <mailman.1056115415.31859.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eppstein-9CBA88.08231220062003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <mailman.1056115415.31859.python-list at python.org>,
 Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> Based on the search I just did for "lexicography" ("The art, process, or
> occupation of making a lexicon or dictionary; the principles which are
> applied in making dictionaries."), I'd say just about anything would be more
> correct than the current phrasing.

Oh come on.  The fourth hit I found on Google for lexicographic order 
was http://mathworld.wolfram.com/LexicographicOrder.html
which has a clear description of the ordering.  It is hardly an unknown 
or unfindable phrase.

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jun 14 09:11:43 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 14:11:43 +0100
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com> <velvur9c1nq30e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <87el1whkhc.fsf@pobox.com>

"Edward K. Ream" <edreamleo at charter.net> writes:
[...]
> 2. I create "instant unittests" by copying Python code from copy of Leo to
> another.  I can execute those instant unittests from within Leo itself.
> These instant unittests are an effortless way of testing code that hardly
> ever gets executed, like error dialogs.
> 
> 3. I hardly ever leave the main copy of Leo while developing Leo.
> "Recompiling" Leo means reloading a separate test outline (containing the
> instant unittests).  The test copy of Leo effortlessly accumulates all the
> official-unittests-to-be.

I don't understand.  Could you elaborate?  For example, could you
clarify whether you mean 'Leo source' or 'running Leo process' when
you say 'Leo'?  Do you mean you work like one does with doctest: copy
stuff from an interactive shell, and have them become permanent tests?


> This change in workflow has approximately tripled my productivity.  No
> kidding.  For example, I can correct syntax errors immediately in the main
> copy of Leo:
> 
> a) I am already in the correct spot and
> b) the main copy of Leo is still running and so is unaffected by the botch.
[...]

I'm still completely lost, but eager to discover more about anything
that triples productivity!


John



From usenet at soraia.com  Sat Jun  7 01:55:17 2003
From: usenet at soraia.com (Joe Francia)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 05:55:17 GMT
Subject: Copying Files
In-Reply-To: <tlcEa.92271$%e.5967562@twister.austin.rr.com>
References: <tlcEa.92271$%e.5967562@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3EE17E4C.7040805@soraia.com>

Stan Cook wrote:
> Can someone give me a clue on using the copyfile function?  I've tried
> implementing it in this fashion without success.
> 
> copyfile(d:\work\temp.dbf, d:\w)
> 

Well, since you didn't actually mention the error you're getting (always 
a better idea than simply saying "It doesn't work"), I'll take a wild 
guess and say it's the lack of quotes surrounding the filenames that's 
causing you problems.  Try this instead:

copyfile(r'd:\work\temp.dbf', r'd:\w')




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun 18 10:47:44 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:47:44 -0400
Subject: preventing creation of instance
References: <bco6se$frs$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de> <mailman.1055897132.700.python-list@python.org> <bcp973$kkp$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de> <3EF05E3C.C11192CE@engcorp.com> <bcpnjc$p5a$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <3EF07B90.764F66E7@engcorp.com>

Mirko Koenig wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:42:36 +0200, Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> > Mirko Koenig wrote:
> >> Is using __new__ a common way in programming python like the contructor
> >> in c++ or is it seldom used ?
> >
> > Perhaps the best answer is that it's *extremely* "new", no pun intended.
> > It was only just added to the language, and relatively few people have
> > probably tried using it, let alone figured out how to judge the best
> > time to use it, and when not to.
> >
> > And many of us are still programming with older versions that didn't
> > have that feature.
> 
> So perhaps throwing an exception in __init__ is the better way for me?

In my opinion, and certainly after seeing Aahz' comment, yes.



From jiwon at softwise.co.kr  Tue Jun 10 03:16:18 2003
From: jiwon at softwise.co.kr (Jiwon Seo)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 00:16:18 -0700
Subject: Error checking in Python
References: <mailman.1055190378.10420.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a6154072.0306092316.4d6bbb7b@posting.google.com>

Think of why do you care about types. You're worried about types
because you want to be sure that the arguments passed to your function
is within your expectation. So, it's not type that matters, and what
counts is whether each arguments are conforming to your expectation or
not. Type checking will cover only small amount of errors and you'll
still have argument-related errors after type checking.

You *will* get exceptions if some arguments are wrong whether the
problem is related to type, or not. So, what is the point of checking
types in a dynamic language like python? Even if you check type
yourself within some function, you will only know about it at
run-time. So you'll still have to find the source every time after you
do the type checking if you do not run it. So, there's no point. If
you do want type checking which will lessen your worries, you know
where to find it.



From unendliche at hanmail.net  Mon Jun 23 02:05:33 2003
From: unendliche at hanmail.net (Seo Sanghyeon)
Date: 22 Jun 2003 23:05:33 -0700
Subject: recursive glob
References: <bd5k7n$f72$1@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <45e6545c.0306222205.778e7699@posting.google.com>

Egor Bolonev wrote:

> yield func work incorrect an I can't fix it - please help me

(snip)

def rec_glob(path,mask):
    if path[-1]!='\\':
        path=path+'\\'
    for i in rec_glob_get_dirs(path):
        # This one is the problem!
        # rec_glob(path+i,mask)
        # Try the following:
        for ii in rec_glob(path+i,mask):
            yield ii
    try:
        for i in os.listdir(path):
            ii=i
            i=path+i
            if os.path.isfile(i):
                if fnmatch.fnmatch(ii,mask):
                    yield i
    except:pass

Calling the function that contains yield, it returns the generator.
Generator is just yet another object. So your line, "rec_glob(path+i,mask)",
has no effect. It is same as writing "1", or "'string'" alone.

-- Seo Sanghyeon



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jun 25 01:31:22 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:31:22 -0700
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com> <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com> <bdb22c$psllg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EF933AA.C16ADFE5@alcyone.com>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" wrote:

> Erik Max Francis wrote:
>
> > (Mac gets even fewer points,
> > since it chose to do deliberately do smoething even more different.)
> 
> That's debatable. At least the Mac still only uses *one*
> character for each end-of-line...

At the time the Mac was created, line endings of LF (Unix) and CR LF
(CP/M, DOS) were common.  The only reason you'd choose CR is to do
something different.  Their implementation of data forks vs. resource
forks are another example of Apple doing something different simply for
its own sake, which introduce massive interplatform compatibility
problems.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The doors of Heaven and Hell are adjacent and identical.
\__/  Nikos Kazantzakis



From tbryan at python.net  Tue Jun  3 23:58:02 2003
From: tbryan at python.net (Tom Bryan)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 03:58:02 GMT
Subject: JDBC <--> Python
References: <99cda542.0306031211.7e2959@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e7eDa.17820$_w.584119@twister.southeast.rr.com>

Elam wrote:

> I've been programming with Python for about a year now and would like
> to use it for some CGI programming.  The programming involves
> accessing a proprietary db whose only access methods is thru JDBC.

Uh oh.  What DB?  Have you checked for a Python DB module?  Are you sure 
that there's no way to access the DB from C code?

> I've used Jython, but it's somewhat slow and from what I read, not
> really suitable for CGI work.

I suppose you could write Java servlets in Jython.  The servlet engine would 
be heavy, but then you wouldn't incur the speed hit of loading Jython for 
each page hit.

> Is there any generic framework ala DBI for python?  Any suggestions
> for alternatives?

Yes, but even Perl's DBI won't help you here.  The Python DB API spec (look 
for the DB-SIG on www.python.org) and Perl's DBI just define an interface 
that database module writers are supposed to expose.  Then, someone writes 
a database module, such as psycopg for PostgreSQL or DCOracle for Oracle.  
Under the covers, almost all of these modules are implemented at least 
partially in C, using the DB vendor's C libraries for accessing the DB.  

In a similar way, a database "supports" JDBC when they ship a bunch of 
.class files that implement the JDBC classes for their DB.  Now, if your DB 
only has a JDBC driver/library and no C-level access, it may be impossible 
to write a DB module for that DB for Python.  From Jython, of course, you 
can simply use the JDBC driver.  

Like I said, if you *really* want to avoid Java, you might try compiling 
your Jython code to Java .class files and running that code under something 
like Tomcat.  Of course, then you'll need to learn a bit about how servlets 
work.  

---Tom




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  9 15:01:03 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 20:01:03 +0100
Subject: read a unicode file
References: <mailman.1055173457.5922.python-list@python.org> <3EE4B35D.DE6D5012@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3EE4D96F.5C89843C@hotmail.com>

Alan Kennedy wrote:

> Also, the standard iterator interface seems to be supported by the codecs.open
> method as well, e.g.
> 
> for line in codecs.open(filename, mode, encoding):
>     print line

But, of course, it isn't supported all the time :-)

If you do this with an utf-16 file, you get the exception

"NotImplementedError: .readline() is not implemented for UTF-16"

Which I found surprising.

I looked at some other encodings (it would be really nice to have a list of
supported encodings ;-) to see which others exhibit this behaviour. I wrote this
code to check

#---------------------------------

import codecs

s = "Hello world\n" * 5

encodings = [ 'iso-8859-1', 
    'ascii', 
    'utf-16', 
    'utf-8', 
    'mac-cyrillic', 
    'mbcs'
]

for e in encodings:
    f = codecs.open("%s.txt" % e, "wt", e)
    f.write(s)
    f.close()

for e in encodings:
    try:
        for line in codecs.open("%s.txt" % e, "rt", e):
            pass
        print "%s does support readline" % e
    except NotImplementedError:
        print "%s does not support readline" % e
    except IOError:
        print "%s gave an IOError. You're running python < 2.3 maybe?" % e

#---------------------------------

And I saw that, of the encodings I selected, only 'utf-16' didn't support
.readline(). (BTW, the reason I selected some of the values above, like
'mac-cyrillic', was because I was looking for a multiple-byte character set, to
see its behaviour. You'll have to excuse my ignorance of cyrillic character
sets.)

So, a question: Why would the 'utf-16' codec not support readline? Looking at
the 'Lib\encodings\utf-16.py' module gives no hints. Is there a problem with
knowing what constitutes a line ending in that encoding?

BTW, thanks to all the encoding people, for doing a great job. I especially like
the .encode() method on strings, because it makes constructs such as this easy
to express:

s = "Hello world"
local_s = s.encode(sys.getdefaultencoding())

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From nosp at m.needed  Fri Jun 20 06:21:28 2003
From: nosp at m.needed (Steve McAllister)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:21:28 +0200
Subject: sum(strings)
In-Reply-To: <UUlIa.113761$pR3.2476192@news1.tin.it>
References: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <mailman.1056036815.23557.python-list@python.org> <bcsnja$arg$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <UUlIa.113761$pR3.2476192@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bcuna9$mq0$3@alto.univ-mlv.fr>

 >>Since strings can be added, they should be sumable too.  No? :-)
 >
 > Nope.

Yes ;-).

 > This caused a real mess when conjoined with such issues as
 > summing empty sequences and summing non-restartable iterators.  The
 > knot was elegantly cut by Guido, who Pronounced that sum wanted to
 > be only and specifically about numbers -- and I think that, as is
 > the case more often than not, he was right.

Sigma(x(i) for i from 0 to n)  ===  x(0) + ... + x(n)

In real life, if (`+' operator)ing right term's operands _is_ 
defined, then the sum _is_ defined.  Inside the Python matrix, 
despite the fact `+' _can_ be used with strings operands, summing 
them is _not_ legal.  This distorsion is precisely what I found 
shoking: `sum' does denote something generic and strongly (only) 
related to the concept of addition.


Anyway, what about using `False' as a neater zero for the default 
start value?, so that:

sum(range(3), False)  # -> 3
sum((), False)        # -> False
sum(('toto', 'tata')) # -> TypeError




From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Wed Jun  4 08:36:09 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:36:09 -0400
Subject: Proposed extension to file constructor
In-Reply-To: <16092.63916.83822.950537@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <20030603182813.GB1366@taral.net> <16092.63916.83822.950537@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20030604123608.GA8620@hishome.net>

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 02:40:28PM -0500, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     taral> I needed to extend popen functionality, so I modified the file
>     taral> constructor to optionally take a file descriptor. It was, in my
>     taral> opinion, the minimum way to do it while preserving isinstance(x,
>     taral> file).
> 
> Where are you getting file descriptors?  What's wrong with using os.fdopen
> to wrap a file descriptor in a file object?

Since 2.2 the file object is a valid base class for deriving subclasses but
if they override the __init__ method they can't set the file descriptor field
except by calling file.__init__ which open()s a string path. If you already 
have a file descriptor you can call fdopen but then the result can't be a 
subclass of the built-in file type.

One example of why you might want a file subclass is to extend the functionality 
of the object returned by popen with new methods (e.g. retrieving process the 
exit code). Why should adding a single method require the implementation of a 
complete wrapper object? Another functionality that is available only for a true 
file object and not for subclasses is to set the name field to an arbitrary 
value such as '(fdopen)' or a process name.

    Oren




From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Jun 23 00:59:57 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:59:57 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <0SmJa.62$nf2.58204@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306230851160.2902-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Sun, 22 Jun 2003, Bill Sneddon wrote:

>I am currently most excited about XSL and the ability to separte
>content from presenttaion.  

Ofcourse I checked XSLT for my purposes. But I found it a waste
of resources. Vanilla XSLT can't create two or more output docs
from XML sources, for example. XSLT is much hard to program
than for example Python.

>HTML is about presenting the data it
>does not tell you about the data or give hints on how to process.
>This is why web searches currently turn up a lot of irrelavent hits.
>As XML comes into play on the web searches and bots will be much more
>useful.

hmmm... have not seen XML much on web-pages.

>I had an application at work to convert a flat text file to formatted 
>document.  Ultimately a MS Word document.  Using Python.

I made something like this for my book. But I made it differently: first I
created an HTML with extra (non-HTML) markup by Python, then I wrote
search-and-replace VB macro to convert that markup to whatever Word
likes. So, only tables and pre-s were done via HTML - everything
else appeared directly in the Word. Intresting, that plain "text->
special HTML"-script worked faster than "HTML->Word" VB one ;-)

>The first approach create a rich text format document import into word.
>Very combersome and scrapped.
>
>Second approach create a HTML document and import into word.  Worked but
>was not very flexable to change formatting.
>
>Third approach create XML document use XSL to convert it HTML.  It seems
>counter intutive that this was a cleaner approach but IMHO it was.
>
>Check out XSL(T) if you have a need to display data in HTML XHTML.
>Pyana a sourceForge project works well for the transforms.  Newer 
>versions of Explorer or Mozilla will do the transforms without code.
>
>Bill
>
>Roman Suzi wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Jun 2003, Alan Kennedy wrote:
>> 
>> <skip plain text vs. other formats debate>
>> 
>>>4. Semantics vs. format: The OP was concerned with finding good use cases for
>>>XML, where it is a natural fit for the problem at hand. He seemed to be
>>>dissatisfied with XML both as a format, and as a method for building semantic
>>>object models. 
>> 
>> 
>> Well formulated, Alan! This is exactly what I tried to tell.
>> 
>> 
>>>My thinking is that it is the process of mapping format ->
>>>semantics that is the key issue: The easier that is, the more likely it is to be
>>>usable and to catch on. I think XML will continue to be grow in usage (not
>>>always used appropriately) because the format is trivial for people to
>>>understand (at a minimum requirements level), there is a common data model which
>>>most people can get their heads around, and the mapping from one to the other is
>>>easily dealt with through usage of the plethora of high-quality, standards
>>>compliant XML processing software that is out there.
>> 
>> 
>> I hope that after, say, 10 years there will be XML tools as stable as 
>> D.Knuth's TeX (he promised many dollars to those who find errors in his
>> code). By that date XML will be in much better position than today.
>> Of course, XML standards body need to be stable as well.
>> 
>> Plain text also suffered from format problems: we still have thousands
>> of encodings and 3 major variants of line-endings.
>> 
>> And, to remain on topic, I hope Python 3 will be ISO and/or ANSI standard ;-)
>> 
>> Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
>
>

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From alloydflanagan at attbi.com  Tue Jun  3 10:33:17 2003
From: alloydflanagan at attbi.com (A. Lloyd Flanagan)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 07:33:17 -0700
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.3999999999 ?
References: <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com> <mailman.1053017062.18647.python-list@python.org> <895e4ce2.0306021736.13c657a5@posting.google.com> <slrnbdo1i8.a95.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3EDC1074.CA05EC23@alcyone.com> <slrnbdo8cl.abe.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3EDC5DBE.83E93BA9@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <a8b7f07a.0306030633.6123a6a4@posting.google.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<3EDC5DBE.83E93BA9 at alcyone.com>...
> Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> > In article <3EDC1074.CA05EC23 at alcyone.com>, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> >
> > > I suspect he's being facetious, since 0.999... = 1.
> > 
> > Right.  But it's never _stored_ as an infinite number of nines.  Nor
> > could
> > it be.
> 
> Of course not, hence the facetiousness.

Well, you can't store an infinite sequence, but you can store the
concept of an infinite number of nines:

def get_one():
    yield '0'
    yield '.'
    while 1:
        yield '9'

Exercise for the reader:  write a program to prove that get_one()
equals one.



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jun  7 19:04:40 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 16:04:40 -0700
Subject: Excuting scripts question
References: <bbtq4o$d718f$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EE26F88.C86E88BB@alcyone.com>

Ken wrote:

> Hi, I have a few scripts that ran well in Unix environment with:
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
> 
> What do I need to change to if I relocate these scripts on a Windows
> environment? I have installed Python 2.2.3 in C:\Python22 directory.

Presumably nothing, since Windows does file associations a different
way.  The file extension will be mapped to the Python interpreter
(presuming it's been installed properly); as far as I know, Windows
never looks at a bangpath.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Physics, as we know it, will be over in six months.
\__/  Max Born (1928)



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sat Jun 14 10:38:31 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 08:38:31 -0600
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
In-Reply-To: <ca0levgibttm6bgpn3l7fjjg1h1e6qfuim@4ax.com>; from news@manuelmgarcia.com on Sat, Jun 14, 2003 at 02:53:29AM +0000
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com> <84fc4588.0306112339.10a4012b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055460443.2394.python-list@python.org> <dnjkevkeo3evk31jdnmtcclmth8g9otmh9@4ax.com> <mailman.1055554178.13347.python-list@python.org> <ca0levgibttm6bgpn3l7fjjg1h1e6qfuim@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030614083831.A582@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Manuel Garcia:
> On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:35:11 -0600, Steven Taschuk
> <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:
  [...]
> >This is the point which still puzzles me -- I see no obvious
> >reason for the rounding error not to propagate.  [...]
  [the AGM converges quadratically]
> [...] so the number of correct digits doubles with each step.
> [...] The error never gets a chance to propagate, [...]
> (How is that for hand waving? ;-)

That's a superb handwave, actually.  I am persuaded, in principle.
Assuming the arithmetic of each iteration introduces error which
is less than quadratic in the number of iterations so far... which
is very plausible, without even looking at the code again.

And that the initial state is "correct enough" to get it all
started.  (The quadratic convergence might just be asymptotic
behaviour; initially it might have much worse behaviour, and thus
susceptible to the arithmetic error.)

And, of course, that the AGM algorithm converges quadratically.
(Let's leave proving that to the professionals.)

  [...]
> I was just trying to figure out what you thought I was 'obfuscating'.

Well, the lambdas do make the code unreadable, as you pointed out.

I'm not sure about the speed advantage you refer to; for example,
the simple-minded rewrite

        scale = 10L**5010
        def sqrt(n):
            guess = n//2L
            for _ in range(15):
                guess = guess - guess//2L + n*scale//(2L*guess)
            return guess
        x, y, t, a = scale, scale*scale//sqrt(2L*scale), 2L, scale//2L
        for _ in range(13):
            x, y = (x+y)//2L, sqrt((x*y)//scale)  # arith & geo means!
            a = a - t*(x**2 - y**2)//scale
            t = 2L*t
        s = str(2L*x*x//a)
        print s[0] + '.' + s[1:5000]

does not (on my machine, with Python 2.3b1) have noticeably
different run-time.  And more obvious optimizations make much
bigger differences anyway; try the above with

    def sqrt(n):
        guess = n//2L
        n = n*scale
        for _ in range(15):
            guess = guess - guess//2L + n//(2L*guess)
        return guess

for example.

  [...]
> BTW, please except my apology for my being a butthead earlier.

Ah... well, there's a problem with that, I'm afraid.  I've already
dispatched the goons with baseball bats -- they're on the plane, I
can't call them back... sorry.

(Really, no apology needed -- I contributed my share of rudeness,
and I think we've worked out our little spat in email anyway.
Water under the Usenet.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                          staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Its force is immeasurable.  Even Computer cannot determine it."
                           -- _Space: 1999_ episode "Black Sun"




From erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr  Fri Jun  6 11:19:17 2003
From: erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr (Erhan Ekici)
Date: Fri,  6 Jun 2003 18:19:17 +0300
Subject: C or C++ in Python
Message-ID: <1054912757.3ee0b0f50ea5a@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr>

Hi...

I work with Numerical Calculations in Ptyhon..
I wanna calculate some part of my project using C or C++ in Python in order to 
gain speed and time.

I tried weave program.Weave  doesn't start.Because No C compiler 
in my system.Then I download MinGW 2.0.0.3.exe for gcc but weave.test() give 
errors...

What is problem ? and to use C or C++ in python, what should I do except Weave ?

Thanks for answers:) 


Erhan Ekici
ITU Distance Learning Center
ITU Electronics and Communication Eng.
E-Posta : erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr
Mobil   : +90 544 6502770

www.uzem.itu.edu.tr






From neal at metaslash.com  Sat Jun  7 22:25:50 2003
From: neal at metaslash.com (Neal Norwitz)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 22:25:50 -0400
Subject: 64 bit python on AIX -- dynload_aix problem
References: <bbq3qu$a2a$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.08.02.25.40.120776@metaslash.com>

On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 08:09:51 -0500, E. McKay Hyde wrote:

> I am trying to get a 64-bit version of python running in AIX (IBM SP). 
> Martin v. Lowis helped me get past a problem in the configuration, but 
> now the compilation fails when building the standard extensions.
> 
> I tracked the problem down to dynload_aix.c and I found a previous post 
> to this group from Davide Tacchella describing the same problem, but 
> with no suggested solutions.  His post read:
> 
>> I'm trying to build Python with 64 bit support on AIX, so far I've encountered 2 problems,
>> dynload_aix.c is not 100% 64 bit compliant (it includes some cast from pointer to (int));
>> this was causing python to SEGV when building extensions, after changing from int to long, 
>> the error is now ILL (SIGILL), there is a pointer to NULL:
>> The call stack from debugger is:
>> 0x000000
>> initstruct (structmodule.c - line 1508)
>> _PyImport_LoadDynamicModule ( importdl.c - line 53)
>> load_module (import.c - line 1365)
>> import_submodule (import.c - line 1895)
>> load_next (import.c - line 1751)
>> import_module_ex (import.c - line 1602)
>> PyImport_ImportModuleEx (import.c - line 1643)
>> builtin___import__ (bltinmodule.c - line 40)
>> PyCFunction_Call (methodobject.c - line 80)
>> eval_frame (ceval.c - line 2004)
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions?

What version of AIX and what version of Python?

>From Misc/AIX-NOTES:

According to Gary Hook from IBM, the format of the export file changed
in AIX 4.2.  For AIX 4.2 and later, a period "." is required on the
first line after "#!".  If python crashes while importing a shared
library, you can try modifying the LINKCC variable in the Makefile.
It probably looks like this:
                                                                                
        LINKCC=     $(srcdir)/Modules/makexp_aix Modules/python.exp \"\" $(LIBRARY); $(PURIFY) $(CXX)
                                                                                
You should modify the \"\" to be a period:
                                                                                
        LINKCC=     $(srcdir)/Modules/makexp_aix Modules/python.exp . $(LIBRARY); $(PURIFY) $(CXX)
                                                                                
This fix has been incorporated into Python 2.3.

Let me know if it worked.

Neal





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Jun 23 09:30:05 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (jepler at unpythonic.net)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:30:05 -0500
Subject: shebang strange thing...
In-Reply-To: <bd6l7a$21im$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <bd6l7a$21im$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <20030623083005.A24874@unpythonic.net>

> "Mel Wilson" <mwilson at the-wire.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:
> yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn at the-wire.com...
> >    It's understandable once you realize that the shell
> > thinks the '\r' is part of the filename.  Just like
> >
> >     os.execv ('/usr/bin/python\r', ('myfile.py',))
> >
> >         Regards.        Mel.
> 
On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 12:49:37PM +0200, Gilles Lenfant wrote:
> IMHO, it's "buggy" :
> 
> * most unix/windows/macos modern tools accept any end of line mark, like
> Python does.
> 
> * the errror message points the user to a bad direction.

So fix it.  Something like this should do the trick:

$ su - 
Password: 1234
% for d in /bin /usr/bin /usr/local/bin; do cd $d; for i in *; do ln -s $i
`printf '%s\r' $i`; done; done
% exit

Jeff




From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jun 14 11:06:26 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 16:06:26 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to change Content-type?
References: <mailman.1055537604.14331.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87n0gkg0lp.fsf@pobox.com>

"A" <printers at sendme.cz> writes:

>  Suppose we have the following form:
>  <FORM action="http://server.com/cgi/handle"
>        enctype="multipart/form-data"
>        method="post">
[...]
>  </FORM>>
> 
> If the user enters "Larry" in the text input, and selects the text
> file "file1.txt", the user agent might send back the following data:
> 
>    Content-Type: multipart/form-data; boundary=AaB03x
[...]
> Is it possible to simulate the behaviour of the user agent and
> use 

Have you actually checked to see what your user agent (aka web
browser, I assume) sends?


> Content-type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
> 
> and send the data as 
> 
> submit-name=Larry&files"; filename="file1.txt" Content-Type: 
> text/plain

Neither RFC 1867 (see also RFC 1866) and HTML 4.01 say you *have* to
do file upload using multipart/form-data, but the server might not
like it if you use application/x-www-form-urlencoded.  In fact, I
think if you go by the letter of HTML 4.01, you'd send back 'files='
for your file control (or possibly nothing at all) if you're using
x-www-form-urlencoded, which isn't very much use.  'files=Larry' might
possibly work, but I don't see why you'd want to try, really.

In other words, don't do that.

RFC 2388 is also relevant to multipart/form-data.

The 0.1.2a version of the following might help you (ATM, I've only
tested the file upload code against the cgi module, and it only does
single-file upload -- and IIRC it would just send 'files=' if you
explicitly asked for form.enctype = "application/x-www-form-urlencoded").

http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientForm/


John



From syver at inout.no  Thu Jun 19 06:29:35 2003
From: syver at inout.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 12:29:35 +0200
Subject: Capture DOS error???
References: <i2cIa.32792$1w1.2496059@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <uadcefjhs.fsf@inout.no>

"Stan Cook" <scook at elp.rr.com> writes:

> I'm writing a script which at some point will map to a list of servers.  The
> program will be keeping a log of problems it encounters to be reviewed
> later. To map the drive, I am using:
> 
> sDrive =
> ["B","F","G","I","J","K","L","M","N","O","P","Q","R","S","T","U","V","W","X"
> ,"Y","Z"]
> iIndex = 0
> shellCmd = ""
>     for s in sImage:  # list of servers
>         shellCmd =  "map " + sDrive[iIndex] + ":=" + s
>         iIndex=iIndex + 1
>         os.system(shellCmd)

Would this help:
          errorlevel = os.system(shellCmd)
          if errorlevel != 0:
              # do error stuff here 



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jun 13 18:28:47 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 22:28:47 GMT
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com> <vehf3d38h6tn85@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bcdj6v$cc6$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:46:45 -0400, "John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote:

>
>"Manuel Garcia" <news at manuelmgarcia.com> wrote in message
>news:arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce at 4ax.com...
>> If anyone ever asks for what good are 'lambda' and 'reduce', show them
>> this...
>>
>> print (lambda p:p[0]+'.'+p[1:])(
>>     str((lambda(x,y,t,a):2L*x*x//a)(
>>         (lambda F:(lambda S:reduce(
>>             lambda(x,y,t,a),_:((x+y)//2L,
>>                 S((x*y)//F),2L*t,
>>                 (a-(t*(((x+y)//2L)**2-
>>                        (S((x*y)//F))**2))//F)),
>>             [0]*13,(F,(F*F)//S(2L*F),2L,F//2L)))(
>>                 lambda n:reduce(lambda x,_:(
>>                     x-x//2L+(n*F)//(2L*x)),
>>                 [0]*15,
>>                 n//2L)))(10L**(5010))))[:5000])
>>
>> You have to be a bit patient with this one...
>
>One thing is perfectly clear. Unless someone paid
>me to do it, I wouldn't look at it. And part of
>the agreement would be to refactor it into something
>at least marginally readable.
>
I just thought to dig this up and turn it into a generator.
Something to check against ;-)

====< pigen.py >====================================
#! /usr/bin/env python
from __future__ import generators

def pigen(n):
    """
    Generate n successive digits of pi.
    
    The algorithm, using Python's 'long' integers ("bignums"), works
    with continued fractions, and was conceived by Lambert Meertens.
    
    See also the ABC Programmer's Handbook, by Geurts, Meertens & Pemberton,
    published by Prentice-Hall (UK) Ltd., 1990. 
    """    
    k, a, b, a1, b1 = 2L, 4L, 1L, 12L, 4L
    while n>0:
        # Next approximation
        p, q, k = k*k, 2L*k+1L, k+1L
        a, b, a1, b1 = a1, b1, p*a+q*a1, p*b+q*b1
        # Print common digits
        d, d1 = a/b, a1/b1
        while n>0 and d == d1:
            yield d
            n -= 1
            a, a1 = 10L*(a%b), 10L*(a1%b1)
            d, d1 = a/b, a1/b1

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    try:
        ndigits = int(sys.argv[1])
        for digit in pigen(ndigits):
            sys.stdout.write('%d'%digit)
        print
    except Exception,e:
        print '%s: %s' % (e.__class__.__name__, e)
        print
        print 'Usage: [python] pigen.py ndigits'
====================================================
[15:31] C:\pywk\pi>pigen.py 500
314159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211
706798214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895
493038196442881097566593344612847564823378678316527120190914564856692346034861045432664821339360
726024914127372458700660631558817488152092096282925409171536436789259036001133053054882046652138
414695194151160943305727036575959195309218611738193261179310511854807446237996274956735188575272
48912279381830119491

... and so forth ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jun 10 06:22:46 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 05:22:46 -0500
Subject: PyUNO connection to OpenOffice
In-Reply-To: <3ee5abaa$1_2@noticias.ulpgc.es>
References: <3ee5abaa$1_2@noticias.ulpgc.es>
Message-ID: <16101.45430.168208.14134@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Enrique> I get the following error:

    Enrique> c:\Archivos de programa\OpenOffice.org1.1\program>python 
    Enrique> swriter.py
    Enrique> Traceback (most recent call last):
    Enrique>    File "swriter.py", line 27, in ?
    Enrique>      smgr = resolver.resolve( 
    Enrique> "uno:socket,host=localhost,port=2002;urp;StarOffice
    Enrique> .ServiceManager" )
    Enrique> __main__.com.sun.star.connection.NoConnectException: 
    Enrique> Connector : couldn't connec
    Enrique> t to socket (WSAECONNREFUSED, Connection refused)

    Enrique> I simply do not understand the message. Any tip or help about
    Enrique> what's going on will be welcome.

It would appear that StarOffice is not listening on port 2002.  Can you
telnet to that port?

Skip




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Thu Jun  5 05:22:36 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:22:36 +1000
Subject: How to get the hostname?
In-Reply-To: <bbn1i9$ap8f0$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
References: <bbn1i9$ap8f0$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20030605092236.GD17887@frobozz>

On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 11:12:36AM +0200, Thomas G?ttler wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Is there a way to get the hostname with python?

import socket
hostname = socket.gethostname()

-Andrew.





From Matthews at heyanita.com  Mon Jun 16 19:59:21 2003
From: Matthews at heyanita.com (Matthew Shomphe)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:59:21 -0700
Subject: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions? (os.chmod() not working properly?)
Message-ID: <8C50918F08A109479D62BAE0F1AB9546D64640@lionking.HANA>

Bloody hell, you're right!  I didn't think that UNIX file permission descriptions would work in Windows, but they do. Can someone make this clearer in the documentation?

It's interesting to note that '666' maps into '33206' in the Windows file permission description.  So you can (apparently), use both values to make a file readable & writeable.

Thanks Gus, you rock!

M@

-----Original Message-----
From: Gus Tabares [mailto:gus.tabares at verizon.net]
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 4:52 PM
To: Gus Tabares; Matthew Shomphe
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: RE: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions?
(os.chmod() not working properly?)


OK I lied. It's 666:)


Sorry,
Gus

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Gus Tabares
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 7:50 PM
To: Matthew Shomphe
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: RE: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions?
(os.chmod() not working properly?)


Matt,

	The second parameter to os.chmod() is typical UNIX-style permissions (i.e,
777 is r/w/x). I would suggest firing up google and searching for UNIX
permissions (or something of the sort). I'm pretty positive that
os.chmod(file, 777) will make <file> R/W.


HTH,
Gus

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Shomphe [mailto:Matthews at heyanita.com]
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 7:44 PM
To: Gus Tabares
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: RE: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions?
(os.chmod() not working properly?)


Gus,

Thanks for the information.  I thought this was the case as well.  However,
in the book (below), it says:

----------------------------------------------------
chmod(path, mode)

Changes the mode of path.  mode has the same values as described for the
open() function.  UNIX and Windows.
----------------------------------------------------

Beazley could full well be wrong (sorry, David! ;).  In the on-line
documentation (http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-file-dir.html) it
says:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
chmod(path, mode)
Change the mode of path to the numeric mode. Availability: Unix, Windows.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, I don't see a description of the values for "mode".  I could only
deduce the numeric value required to get read/write permissions by checking
the permissions of a file that I knew to be both readable & writable:

=========================
from stat import *
print os.stat('myReadAndWriteFile.txt')[ST_MODE]
=========================

I can use the numeric value I grabbed from the above output to set
permissions.  However, setting permissions using these raw numeric values
strikes me as A Bad Thing(TM).  It doesn't make the code portable.  And who
knows what Redmond will do in the future?

Let me make my inquiry clearer (I hope):
(1) What are the values expected for the second argument to os.chmod()?
(2) Are these values platform independant?
(3) Is it documented anywhere?

Thanks for your help!

M@

PS.  I'm using python2.3b1



-----Original Message-----
From: Gus Tabares [mailto:gus.tabares at verizon.net]
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 4:30 PM
To: Matthew Shomphe; python-list at python.org
Subject: RE: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions?
(os.chmod() not working properly?)


Matt,

	I do believe os.O_RDWR is specifically for the open() function. Check out
the bottom of this page:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/os-fd-ops.html



HTH,
Gus

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org
[mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Matt Shomphe
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 7:18 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions? (os.chmod()
not working properly?)


I noticed an error when trying to change the file permissions for a
file on a Windows (2K) machine.  I'm using David Beazley's excellent
"Python Essential Reference, 2nd. Ed." as a reference.  According to
the book (p. 186 for those following along at home), it should be used
thusly:

import os
os.chmod('myReadOnlyFile.txt', os.O_RDWR)


Where for os.O_RDWR, you could have any of the modes specified on p.
184.  In other words, all the same bitwise-or modes for opening a
file.  What happens with the above code is: nothing at all.  However,
the following code *will* work to change a file to be accessible:

import os
os.chmod('myReadOnlyFile.txt', 33206)

So, either I am using the os.chmod() function incorrectly, or there is
something wrong elsewhere.

Any hints on what's to be done?

M@
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From wrbt at email.com  Thu Jun 19 14:49:42 2003
From: wrbt at email.com (Larry)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 11:49:42 -0700
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
References: <mailman.1055975372.25967.python-list@python.org> <bcqs53$hrb$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <2ec1bc1c.0306191049.1e8c7bdb@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<bcqs53$hrb$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:28:35 -0700 (PDT), Curly Joe <woooee at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the compiler
> >break all of these solutions down into approximately
> >the same thing? The compiler has to physically step
> >through the list one by one no matter how you phrase
> >the code, so there would be no gain in speed.  There
> >might be a small speedup for larger lists if you
> >placed the previous element in a variable and compare
> >the variable to this element, because then the
> >compiler would only have to access one element instead
> >of two elements in each pass.  But aside from that it
> >seems that it is all window dressing IMHO.  I'm no
> >expert on lists.  Good question though.
> >
> There's a lot of difference in what happens. E.g., if you zip
> an offset copy to make a list of tuples, you've duplicated the
> first list and made an equally long list of 2-tuples. And then
> you start constructing the result list.
> 
> Destructive modification of the original list is going to take
> very much less space for large lists, and likely be faster (depending
> on how you do it ;-)
> 
> You can compare the code generated by disassembling with the dis module.
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

Sheesh this group (and the Python community) rule. Thanks for all the
help and suggestions, and everyone please have a great weekend.

- Larry



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 24 04:55:30 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:55:30 -0700
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com> <bct498$mnjrt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <8da5fvsnidpjtblgfj4484spso2t9e6r95@4ax.com> <bcuqp3$nl9um$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <rt97fv80g2dguti1okoevk3kmvo6oh14vt@4ax.com> <bd17hu$niu1d$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <u7lcfv85lvutqg8tspgua4qc0454gsd2ie@4ax.com> <bd8gsc$pt2lr$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <3ef80342$0$13176$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <bd93ji$qieli$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

| How about the simple approach?
| ...

Kim ...

The approach I used is fairly simple and similar
to the one you posted, basically just
stuffing words from split lines into
a dictionary ...

The following script produces an indexed list
fairly quickly for relatively small files,
but dogged out on the input file John supplied
which yielded ...

  Total  Words .... 467381
  Unique Words .... 47122

Perhaps skipping the dictionary word count update
in the following line might speed things up ...

      else :

            dict_words[ this_word ] += 1

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona

-------------------------------------------------------------------

'''

    Module ........... word_list.py

    Usage ............ python word_list.py File_In.txt File_Out.txt

    NewsGroup ........ comp.lang.python

    Date ............. 2003-06-18

    Posted_By ........ John Fitzsimmons

    Replies_From ..... [ kpop , Erik Max Francis ]

    Coded_By ......... Stanley C. Kitching

'''

import math
import sys
import time

time_in = time.time()

NL = '\n'

module_name = sys.argv[ 0 ]

print '%s    %s '  % ( NL , module_name )

path_in    = sys.argv[ 1 ]
path_out   = sys.argv[ 2 ]

file_in    = file( path_in   , 'r' )
file_out   = file( path_out  , 'w' )

word_total = 0


dict_words = {}

print
print '        Indexing Words .... ' ,

for iLine in file_in :

    if math.fmod( word_total , 1000 ) == 0 :

       print '.' ,

    list_words = iLine.strip().split()

    for this_word in list_words :

        if this_word not in dict_words.keys() :

            dict_words[ this_word ] = 1

        else :

            dict_words[ this_word ] += 1

        word_total += 1


list_words = dict_words.keys()

list_words.sort( lambda x , y :  cmp( x.lower() , y.lower() )  )


print NL
print '        Writing Output File ....' ,

for this_word in list_words :

    word_count = dict_words[ this_word ]

    str_out    = '%6d %s %s' % ( word_count , this_word , NL )

    file_out.write( str_out )


word_str   = '%s     Total  Words .... %d %s' % ( NL , word_total , NL )

keys_total = len( dict_words.keys() )

keys_str   = '%s     Unique Words .... %d %s' % ( NL , keys_total , NL )


file_out.write( word_str )

file_out.write( keys_str )

print NL
print '        Complete .................'
print
print '            Total  Words ....' , word_total
print
print '            Unique Words ....' , keys_total


file_in.close()

file_out.close()


time_out  = time.time()

time_diff = time_out - time_in

print NL
print '        Process Time ........ %-6.2f Seconds' % ( time_diff )







From alan_salmoni at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 11 06:01:01 2003
From: alan_salmoni at yahoo.com (Alan James Salmoni)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 03:01:01 -0700
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b68f71a7.0306110201.2593146f@posting.google.com>

You hear a joke and say:

"for i in range(10):
    laugh(lots)"

I think that is the more extreme case, but I knew I was becoming a
Pythonista when I looked at code in other languages and ranted to
myself: "Why is it so complicated???"

Or you double-take when someone says "Guido"...

Or comp.lang.python is in your bookmarks (yes, it is!).

Have fun!

Alan James Salmoni
SalStat Statistics
http://salstat.sunsite.dk

bitbucket at safe-mail.net (poiboy) wrote in message news:<af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77 at posting.google.com>...
> ..or "Empathy and Envy on the Road to Enlightenment."
>                                                                                   
> I'm a doit-yer-selfer counting signposts on my path to PyNirvana,
> and I'm wondering what epiphanies the better traveled have
> experienced along their own.
>                                                                                   
> Those that have marked my progress are:
>                                                                                   
> 1) Bookmarking the Language Reference Index and realizing that "for
>    language lawyers" applied to *me* (my links for "Extending and
>    Embedding" and "Python/C API" are still blue).
>                                                                                   
> 2) Relying on unittest.
>                                                                                   
> 3) Discovering filter() and map().
>                                                                                   
> 4) Fortifying classes with __setattr__() and friends.
>                                                                                   
> 4.5) Leaving if:, elif:, and else: on their own lines for fear of
>      scorn or deprecation.
>                                                                                   
> Aloha, the poiboy



From sean at datamage.net  Sun Jun  1 11:21:50 2003
From: sean at datamage.net (Sean Legassick)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 17:21:50 +0200
Subject: Request for feedback on my first Python program
References: <MPG.194096b51af188bb9896f0@news.hevanet.com>
 <slrnbdeevn.694.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net>
 <PDkJf9EB5U2+EAgJ@bamboo.datamage.net>
 <20030601021106.GA7831@mephisto.ghaering.de>
 <mailman.1054438441.19004.python-list@python.org>
 <3ED97F63.4045FBAD@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <XHnPuZAOoh2+EATT@bamboo.datamage.net>

In message <3ED97F63.4045FBAD at alcyone.com>, Erik Max Francis 
<max at alcyone.com> writes
>Sean Legassick wrote:
>
>> I specifically wanted to point out that
>>
>> if X:
>>    return True
>> else:
>>    return False
>>
>> is a particularly ugly and surprisingly common redundancy - in many
>> languages...
>
>What you write here is not necessarily redundant, provided that X is not
>a Boolean.  There may be more compact ways to write it, but that doesn't
>mean that the above code is wrong.

Uh-huh, point taken. I was thinking of the case where X evaluates out to 
a boolean, as in the previous example.

-- 
Sean K. Legassick
sean at datamage.net
         informage - http://informage.net - mouthing off from the fairest cape





From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Jun 18 21:09:00 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:09:00 -0400
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
In-Reply-To: <CbmcnY5W9IN5F22jXTWJkQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEKGEKAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Terry Reedy]
> ...
> If it has not done so, the PSF should probably trademark 'Python' as
> computer language name.

Ain't that simple, alas.  There are dozens of applications for 'Python' as a
trademark, and the gummint doesn't draw as fine a distinction among
applicants as we do.  CNRI first tried to trademark Python in our sense over
3 years ago, and is still trying:

    http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76044902

The PSF is currently talking with CNRI about taking over this endless task.
It's definitely part of the PSF's mission to protect Python's name.

> With trademark rights, PSF could avoid Sun's 'problem' by refusing to
> license Python to Microsoft -- even if asked -- and forgo it
> 'impremature'.  We are arguably doing well enough without it now.  Or
> it could try to write a better contract.  Perhaps sufficient would be
> specifying that anything bearing the Python name, with some version
> number, must pass the corresponding test suite, just like CPython.  If
> a licensed version had avoidable and unwanted (by PSF)
> incompatibilities, add more unit tests for the next version to catch
> them.

If he offered to fund Python development, I'm sure we'd license the name to
Satan <wink>.





From paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com  Thu Jun 26 04:52:27 2003
From: paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com (Paolo Invernizzi)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:52:27 +0200
Subject: filedescriptor out of range in select()
In-Reply-To: <20030626083058.GE17335@frobozz>
References: <bde89s$ef4$1@main.gmane.org> <20030626083058.GE17335@frobozz>
Message-ID: <bdec7p$vsg$1@main.gmane.org>

Andrew Bennetts wrote:

> I'm not very familiar with BSD, asyncore or spambayes, but I think
> "filedescriptor out of range in select()" usually means that the process is
> trying to handle too many connections at once -- maybe the sockets aren't
> getting closed, or something.

Me neither I'm too familiar with BSD ;-)

But the only client of the pop3proxy is fetchmail on the same machine, 
and I think it queries the pop3proxy one account a time aka one 
connection a time...

> You might like to check the output of netstat when it happens, too see if
> there's an outrageously large number of connections to your pop3proxy.  I'm
> just guessing, though.

I'll check, but I'm pessimistic...

Thanks for your kind answer

---
Paolo






From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sun Jun 22 14:35:04 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:35:04 -0400
Subject: xrange
References: <mailman.1056301238.29540.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jEmJa.825$Fe3.70657@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Ken Seehof" <kseehof at neuralintegrator.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1056301238.29540.python-list at python.org...
>Are we slowing moving in the direction of Perl?

http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/c/creeping_featurism.html





From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Wed Jun 18 04:49:44 2003
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 08:49:44 GMT
Subject: recv
References: <3EF02537.7050609@uni-koblenz.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbf09t8.fe0.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <3EF02537.7050609 at uni-koblenz.de>, Oleg Seifert wrote:
> def read():
>      print s.recv(1024)
> 
> How can I print the whole response, independent of the structure
> (numer of lines) of the response?

You need to keep calling recv repeatedly to get the whole response.
recv(1024) doesn't mean "give me 1024 bytes", it means "don't give me
more than 1024 bytes".

def read():
  while 1:
    r = s.recv(1024)
    if not r: break
    sys.stdout.write(r)
  sys.stdout.write("\n")



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sat Jun  7 12:37:07 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 7 Jun 2003 09:37:07 -0700
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306070837.789f2a9f@posting.google.com>

Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list at python.org>...
> Ed Avis writes:
> > It seems a bit perverse that setattr is allowed in lambda expressions
> > but assignment is not; that you can call setdefault to update a
> > dictionary, but not simply set the dictionary's elements; that you can
> > do sys.stdout.write but not print; that you can call a function which
> > asserts but not call assert.
> > 
> > If lambda accepted statements as well as expressions - or if a
> > statement could be used as an expression, as in C - then these warts
> > would not arise.
> 
> True, but as usual, there's a reason for it. Lambda was intended[1] for
> one purpose and one purpose only... to permit simple anonymous functions
> to be used in places where the succinctness makes it more readable than 
> using def to make a named function. Such places are rare except when
> using functional style programming, where they are quite common. But
> in functional style programming you (nearly always) do NOT want 
> expressions to have side effects.
> 
> So lambda is defined to allow only expressions, and is *intended* for
> simple, side-effect-free functions. While there's nothing *preventing*
> you from calling a function with side effects, the prohibition on
> using statements tends to discourage it. Good style is encouraged,
> but you can violate the rules if you really want to (and know what
> you're doing). If you want more, use def, and give it a name.
> 
> [1] This is only my own opinion of how and why Lamda works the way it
>   does. In particular, Guido would disagree. He would say that lambda
>   was included to satisfy the requests from lisp refugees, and that
>   if he had it to do over he wouldn't just choose a better keyword,
>   he'd prohibit the whole thing and require def everywhere. On this
>   point I respectfully disagree with him... I find lambda to be quite
>   nice, but ONLY when used for very small side-effect-free functions.
>   And if I had a complaint, it wouldn't be about the (rarely needed
>   and easily worked-around) prohibition on assignment statements,
>   but about the (frequently needed and impossible to work around) lack
>   of a conditional expression.
> 
> But-we-won't-bug-Guido-about-the-results-of-that-vote-until-after-2.3 lly,
> 
> -- Michael Chermside


+1

I like lambdas as they are, the mistake (see Oscon Python regrets) was
to make 'print' a statement and not an expression. I also agree with you
on the conditional operator which would be especially useful in lambdas.
At this point, however, I am unsure it will ever appear... mah!

        
                                                      Michele



From a at b.c  Sat Jun 28 17:43:54 2003
From: a at b.c (SFBayling)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 21:43:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python executables?
References: <mailman.1056619905.13226.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93A8E773B9854abc@194.106.32.13>

Catalin <ady982 at ploiesti.astral.ro> wrote in 
news:mailman.1056619905.13226.python-list at python.org:

> And the programs also run much slower and become extremely big compared 
> to a normal C++ program for example. 

What are you doing that the speed decrease matters?
What are you doing that is so secret?

If it really is too slow (i.e. 100 times slower than C++ is one thing, but 
if it still only takes 0.1s is that really a problem?), consider writing 
the slow part in C or C++ as a compiled extension. That could get you the 
speed and mildly-increased-code-security you desire for the delicate parts 
of your program, plus the advantages of Python for all the rest.

sfb.



From missive at frontiernet.net  Sat Jun 21 16:28:17 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:28:17 GMT
Subject: distutils won't add data file to package dir
References: <mailman.1056224323.16059.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbf9g0i.1ej5.missive@localhost.my.domain>

In article <mailman.1056224323.16059.python-list at python.org>, Michael Mell:
> according to the thread at
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/distutils-sig/2000-May/001093.html
> it is advised to put static data files in the package directory of a  
> Python application.
> 
> distutils seems to refuse to do this unless the file has a .py  
> extension.
> My data file, appropriately, has a .txt extension. It is listed in the  
> MANIFEST.
> 
> > python setup.py install
> simply ignores the data file.
> 
> Here is my setup.py
> + + + + + + + +
> from distutils.core import setup
> 
> setup (name="Elements",
> 	author="Mike Mell",
> 	author_email="mike at nthwave.net",
> 	url="http://www.nthwave.net/elements/",
> 	version="1.1.1",
> 	packages=['Elements']
> 	)
> + + + + + + + +
> I've tried several variations on this.
> 
> The data_files option is not appropriate here. As the docs say [1],  
> using the data_files option places the data file in sys.prefix -- which  
> is definitely not site-packages/Elements.
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 


I recommend looking at another program that does what you want yours
to do...

I use a thing that Pygame uses to put data in the package directory.
Works fine, but I think finding the right place for data and putting
it there is still a distutils weak point.





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jun  3 07:57:55 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:57:55 +0100
Subject: Python get's a mention on University Challenge
References: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <VYNCa.66$5L6.15@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <just-E9924B.22204302062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3EDC8D43.DF1ACB2A@hotmail.com>

Just wrote:

> Wow... If anyone got that on tape and could post a (link to a) capture,
> that would be awesome!

Unfortunately, I missed the program.

If they repeat the episode, I'll tape and digitise it.

Does anyone know if University Challenge gets repeated? On TV or on Radio?

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From user at domain.invalid  Wed Jun 11 14:20:11 2003
From: user at domain.invalid (user at domain.invalid)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:20:11 +0200
Subject: list.remove(): bug ??
In-Reply-To: <3ee771f9$0$45171$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>
References: <bc7ql8$72a$1@demo2.univ-lyon1.fr> <3ee771f9$0$45171$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>
Message-ID: <3EE772DB.40207@domain.invalid>

Andrew Wilkinson wrote:
> Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi all,
>>
>>here is a very simple script:
>>
>>liste = ['foo1' , 'foo2', 'foo3', 'foo4', 'foo5' ]
>>for i in liste:
>>   if i == 'foo2':
>>     liste.remove( i )
>>   else:
>>     print i
>>
>>
>>But the result is:
>>
>>foo1
>>foo4
>>foo5
>>
>>How should I do to still print 'foo3' ??
>>
>>thanks a lot,
>>mathieu
> 
> 
> The problem is that you're modifying the list that you're iterating over.
> The simplest method to correct this is to take a copy of the list and
> iterate over it instead of the actual list.
> 
> liste = ['foo1' , 'foo2', 'foo3', 'foo4', 'foo5' ]
> for i in liste[:]:
>   if i == 'foo2':
>     liste.remove( i )
>   else:
>     print i
> 
> The above code works as expected. I don't see this as a bug, although its
> perhaps not as intuitive as you would expect from Python.
> 
> Hope this help,
> Andrew Wilkinson

Very nice indeed, works as expected, that's all I needed !

thanks,
mathieu




From dwblas at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  9 15:55:12 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (DavidW Blaschke)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 12:55:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: File reading using delimiters
Message-ID: <20030609195512.76947.qmail@web21609.mail.yahoo.com>

As posted in the other reply, read all of the data at
once and then parse it.  If the file is too large, you
can read it one byte at a time until you find the
delimiter with file.read( 1 ).  Don't know how that
will affect performance though.

> --- In python-list at yahoogroups.com, Peter Hansen
> <peter at e...> wrote:
> > Kylotan wrote:
> > > 
> > > All the examples of reading files in Python seem
> to concern 
> reading a
> > > line at a time. But this is not much good to me
> as I want to be 
> able
> > > to read up to arbitrary delimiters without
> worrying about how many
> > > lines I'm spanning. With my rudimentary Python
> knowledge I'm 
> having to
> > > read in multiple lines, concatenate them, search
> for the 
> delimiter,
> > > split the result if necessary, and carry forward
> whatever was 
> after
> > > the delimiter to the next operation. Is there a
> better way of 
> reading
> > > until a certain character is encountered, and no
> more?
> > 
> > You could always avoid readline() and use just
> read() to get either
> > all the data (for files under a few tens of
> megabytes) or read(x) 
> > where x is some block-size, for larger files. 
> Without more 
> information
> > about the nature of the files and the type of
> scanning, I can't
> > help more.
> > 
> > -Peter
> > -- 
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sun Jun  8 18:37:25 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 15:37:25 -0700
Subject: solving the metaclass conflict
References: <2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7@posting.google.com> <25b5433d.0306071443.63b27df6@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0306080334.329fa409@posting.google.com> <25b5433d.0306081024.517d855e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306081437.5c8f5f0d@posting.google.com>

pje at telecommunity.com (Phillip J. Eby) wrote in message news:<25b5433d.0306081024.517d855e at posting.google.com>...> 
> Anyway...  the punchline to all of this is...  I quickly discovered
> that for normal usage (i.e. not via automated tools like my AOP code),
> you don't need even as sophisticated of a recipe as what you've
> created, let alone what I wrote.  It's just as easy to do:
> 
> class C1(B1,B2):
>     class __metaclass__(B1.__class__,B2.__class___): pass
> 
> While a bit verbose, I find that about 90% of the time when I need to
> combine metaclasses, there are only two involved, and then the
> inheritance hierarchy stabilizes again.  Perhaps you should mention
> this "manual recipe" along with your automatic one, since it's a lot
> less than 25 lines if you only need to do it once or twice.

Point taken. I wanted something automatic for an AOP-like tool, but it is
true that in most case you don't need it.

Here is my last version:

def memoize(f):
    """This closure stores all f invocations in a dictionary; notice that
    f cannot have keywords arguments or dictionaries as arguments."""
    dic={} # internal dictionary
    wrapped_f=lambda *args: dic.setdefault(args,f(*args))
    wrapped_f.dic=dic # make dic available outside
    return wrapped_f

def _generatemetaclass(bases,metas,priority):
    trivial=lambda m: sum([issubclass(M,m) for M in metas],m is type)
    # hackish!! m is trivial if it is 'type' or, in the case explicit
    # metaclasses are given, if it is a superclass of at least one of them
    metabases=tuple([mb for mb in map(type,bases) if not trivial(mb)])
    metabases=(metabases+metas, metas+metabases)[priority]
    metaname="_"+''.join([m.__name__ for m in metabases])
    if not metabases: # trivial metabase
        return type 
    elif len(metabases)==1: # single metabase
        return metabases[0]
    else: # multiple metabases
        return clsfactory()(metaname,metabases,{})

_generatemetaclass=memoize(_generatemetaclass) 

def clsfactory(*metas,**options):
    """Class factory avoiding metatype conflicts. The invocation syntax is
    clsfactory(M1,M2,..,priority=1)(name,bases,dic). If the base classes have 
    metaclasses conflicting within themselves or with the given metaclasses, 
    it automatically generates a compatible metaclass and instantiate it. 
    If priority is True, the given metaclasses have priority over the 
    bases' metaclasses"""

    priority=options.get('priority',False) # default, no priority
    return lambda n,b,d: _generatemetaclass(b,metas,priority)(n,b,d)

# solving the meta-metaclass conflict
class MM1(type): pass
class MM2(type): pass
class M1(type):
    __metaclass__=MM1
class M2(type): 
    __metaclass__=MM2
class A: __metaclass__=M1
class B: __metaclass__=M2
class C(A,B):
    __metaclass__=clsfactory()
print C,type(C),type(type(C))
#=> <class '__main__.C'> <class '__main__._M1M2'> <class '__main__._MM1MM2'>

from oopp import pretty
print pretty(_generatemetaclass.dic)

#print _generatemetaclass.result
#print _generatemetaclass.argskw

class D(A,B):
    __metaclass__=clsfactory()


print type(D) is type(C)

# skipping unneeded metaclasses
class M(type): pass
class M1(M): pass

class B: __metaclass__=M
class C(B): 
    __metaclass__=clsfactory(M1)

print C,type(C),type(type(C))
#=> <class '__main__.C'> <class '__main__.M1'> <type 'type'>



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Jun  7 13:20:34 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 18:20:34 +0100
Subject: finding origin of names
References: <gozptIAYyc4+EwH6@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <mailman.1055004899.24832.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u1d6KXAi7h4+Ew2$@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1055004899.24832.python-list at python.org>, Steven
Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes
......
>> do I have to inspect the code to determine that module a defines v? 
>
>It's not clear to me what this question means.
>
>First, a.v and b.v are distinct names, that is, they can be
>rebound independently; so surely you have to ask separately
>whether a given module defines a.v and whether it defines b.v.
>
>Second, I'm not sure what "defines" means here.  Do you just want
>the location of the last assignment statement (or def statement,
>etc.) which bound that name?  (I don't think that information is
>easily available.)  And if so, why do you care?  It's all the same
>object regardless of which code bound it to the name you're using
>to refer to it.
>
OK I'm being stupid we're importing these things for their value. So I
really mean to find the original use of the value.

For the value 1 it's not that obvious, but suppose I create

#a.py
red = Color(1,0,0)


#b.py
from a import red


then in derived modules I have a choice to import red from either a or
b. Since the b name is imported from a, we can regard the b name as
derivative for these kinds of constant and therefore prefer to import
from a (the source of the definition).
-- 
Robin Becker



From drs at ecp.cc  Tue Jun 17 16:53:49 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:53:49 GMT
Subject: importing specific module
Message-ID: <xdLHa.4352$87.3050620@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

I feel like I have seen this answered here, but I am not finding the
discussion, so sorry if this is asked a lot.

I would like to import a specific module which may or may not be on the
path, and because of concerns about duplicate names, changing network
drives, and moving files, I would rather not append sys.path.  So, something
like

>>> import('C:\\path\\to\\some\\module.py')

is what I am looking to do. imp.load_module() seems promising, but the
documentation is going over my head so I am not sure it is appropriate.  Any
suggestions?  Thanks,

-doug





From gb at cs.unc.edu  Tue Jun 10 16:17:49 2003
From: gb at cs.unc.edu (Gary Bishop)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 16:17:49 -0400
Subject: Surprising difference (bug?) between traceback and inspect
Message-ID: <3ee63ced_2@news.unc.edu>

The following short script illustrates a surprising difference between
the output of traceback.extract_stack and inspect.outerframes().

They look pretty much the same if the program does not change the
working directory, but for programs that internally change their
working directory, inspect loses the file names.

The problem (if it is a problem) originates in inspect.getsourcefile
which insists on a True result from os.path.exists(filename) before it
will return filename.

I encountered this deep in the fancy traceback code in IPython which
is using inspect.innerframes to get the same info (I think) as
traceback.extract_tb. The particular program I was debugging used
chdir at one point and then tracebacks lose their filenames.

I don't see why inspect.getsourcefile should insist on os.path.exists
before returning the name. The name isn't the full path name so why
should this test be required?

gb



From icarroll at pobox.com  Mon Jun  2 12:27:50 2003
From: icarroll at pobox.com (W Isaac Carroll)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:27:50 -0700
Subject: function pointers
References: <Sea1-F150j91nYBihaM00010ae3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3EDB7B06.7030109@pobox.com>

Jimmy verma wrote:
> Hello !

Hello!

> I have a few statements in C for which i want to write the equivalent 
> code in python:
> 
> typedef int (*AB)(int a, int b);          #a function pointer type used 
> to describe signature of some function.

Because Python is dynamically typed, you don't declare types or 
signatures. Once a function is defined, just use its name like you would 
a pointer. You can assign it to another variable or pass it to another 
function.

     def func(arg1, arg2):
         # function body

     othervar = func
     otherfunc(func)

> Then a structure of the form
> 
> typedef struct abc
> {
>       AB make;
>       int a;
> }ABC;

This is usually written:

     class ABC:
         pass

     cba = ABC()
     cba.make = func
     cba.a = 42

If you really want to enforce which fields are allowed, you can use 
"slots", but don't do that until you know the Pythonic reasons for it.

> Now this structure is getting passed to some function
> 
> xyz(const ABC* inter)
> {
>         #some code here
>          e = inter->Make(a, b);
> }

Functions are treated just like other data types in Python.

     def xyz(inter):
         # some code here
         e = inter.make(a, b)   # case is significant just like in C

> How can i handle it with python.

I hope this has helped your exploration of Python.

TTFN





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  9 17:52:57 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 15:52:57 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <l1y90bdngx.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>; from ed@membled.com on Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 09:07:10PM +0100
References: <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org> <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055032157.24538.python-list@python.org> <l1el24hmex.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055088916.4391.python-list@python.org> <l1ptlofcz3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055131997.12710.python-list@python.org> <l1y90bdngx.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <20030609155257.C2447@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ed Avis:
> Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:
  [...]
> >I actually think parentheses directly around the statement is a
> >more promising approach.
> 
> I was just about to post that when I thought I should read the rest of
> your reply first ;-).
> 
> Hmm, so maybe there would have to be two cases, one containing an
> expression as at present, and a second case
  [...]

In full:

    lambda_form ::= "lambda" [parameter_list] ":" lambda_body
    lambda_body ::= "(" simple_stmt ")"
                  | test

(with the assumption that earlier-mentioned expansions are
preferred).

  [...]
> that the two different productions for lambda overlap, after all, an
> expression can be wrapped in ( ) and so '(e)' might be the expression
> (e) or the expression_stmt e.  With the idea of inserting an implicit
> 'return' before expression_stmts inside lambda functions, the
> semantics of the two would be the same so it might not matter.

Yes, I suspect you're right.  It is a little ugly that you have to
special case expression_stmts, but I think this could work.

> Or maybe the bracketing could be used to avoid the 'implicit return'
> peculiarity altogether.  The meaning of lambda x: expr could be
> defined to be the same as a named function containing 'return expr'.
> While the meaning of lambda x: (simple_stmt) would be defined to be
> like a named function containing simple_stmt.  If we arrange that the
> first grammar rule always matches in preference to the second, then
> existing constructs like 'lambda x: (3)' would not change in meaning.
> I hope this makes some sense.

Lookahead again:
    lambda x: (
might start, e.g.,
    lambda x: (y)        # expr
    lambda x: (y = 3)    # simple_stmt
But the y could be an arbitrarily complex target list.

With the proposal above, we have
    lambda x: (y)        # simple_stmt->expression_stmt (gets implicit rtn)
    lambda x: (y = 3)    # simple_stmt->assignment_stmt
No parsing problem.  (Note, btw, that the grammar in the Language
Reference is not LL(1) as written, as you can see by studying
expression_stmt and assignment_stmt; contrast Grammar/Grammar.)

  [...]
> Yes, life would be easier if all lambda functions currently had
> 'return expr' rather than just 'expr' as their body.  [...]

*chuckle*

-- 
Steven Taschuk                  staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Telekinesis would be worth patenting."  -- James Gleick




From gmduncan at netspace.net.au  Mon Jun 16 10:53:56 2003
From: gmduncan at netspace.net.au (Gary Duncan)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:53:56 +1000
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it>
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3EEDDA04.8000005@netspace.net.au>

Alex Martelli wrote:

[ lots deleted ]

> 
>>>Calling functions with invalid arguments is one of the commonest
>>>programming errors
>>
>>Debatable.  Not true in my experience.
>
I suspect this assertion relates to juxtaposing args, not so
much the values thereof. Obviously passing bad values to a function
is a crime we have all committed - at least it's one I admit to ;)

In the pre-ANSI-C days, I did this occasionally - and even thereafter
coz if multiple args had the same type (int?), the function definition
wouldn't help if one put the args out of order.

> 
> Pretty true in my own experience, for a suitably generalized definition

See above.

- Gary (definitely a proponent of dynamism )



> of "functions" that includes operators and other callables.  However,
> the reasons the arguments are "invalid" are more often connected to the
> *values* that those arguments take at runtime, rather than to the types

Hmm, I'll have to think about that ;)

> of those arguments (which might be checkable at compile time if one
> used a statically-typed language), therefore this is not an argument
> in favour of static type-checking.  E.g., indexing blah[bloh] with an
> invalid index value computed in variable bloh (invalid with respect
> to the set of indices that container blah can accept) is, alas, far
> from rare; but it's not a type-checking issue, and rarely will a
> compiler be able to deduce reliably that the value of bloh as run-time
> computed is going to be invalid.  Thus, runtime checks are needed here
> (Java does them, Python does them, C++ may or may not do them) -- AND
> unit-tests that you can trust to tickle any bugs that might be there...
> 
> 
> 
> Alex
> 




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun 11 17:59:02 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:59:02 +0200
Subject: Looking for the greatest negative float value
In-Reply-To: <bc7lvb$gm3$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>
References: <bc7lvb$gm3$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <20030611215902.GA6679@nl.linux.org>

Gilles Lenfant wrote:
> Subject: Looking for the greatest negative float value

Hmm. I think you are looking for -float('inf'). That is
the greatest negative float value, since it is <n for each
n.

Gerrit.

-- 
2. If any one bring an accusation against a man, and the accused go to
the river and leap into the river, if he sink in the river his accuser
shall take possession of his house. But if the river prove that the
accused is not guilty, and he escape unhurt, then he who had brought the
accusation shall be put to death, while he who leaped into the river shall
take possession of the house that had belonged to his accuser.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Jun  9 09:43:22 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 15:43:22 +0200
Subject: Tkinter ->> selected mouse text
References: <28043694.1055157347756.JavaMail.nobody@webmail2>
Message-ID: <bc25a5$842$1@main.gmane.org>

jubafre at brturbo.com wrote:

> how can i get a selected text with the mouse in a
> text componnent in tkinter?? i have to get start
> position and end position of the selected text.

what's a text component?  a Text widget?  if so, use the
SEL_FIRST and SEL_LAST indices:

    s = text.get(SEL_FIRST, SEL_LAST)

if you need the actual row/column coordinates, use the
index method to get a "row.column" index:

    first = text.index(SEL_FIRST)
    last = text.index(SEL_LAST)

for more info, see "concepts" and "patterns" under:

    http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/text.htm

</F>







From mirko-lists at zeibig.net  Wed Jun 18 05:45:49 2003
From: mirko-lists at zeibig.net (Mirko Zeibig)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:45:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3064b51d.0306170436.2b31f9e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbf0d6d.1h1.mirko-lists@lxmize.int.cinetic.de>

beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> The beginning of the following Fortran 95 subroutine, for example,
> provides useful information both to the compiler and to a programmer
> trying to understand what it does:
> 
> subroutine solve_lsq_svd_rmse(aa,bb,xx,rmse,ierr)
> ! solve a set of least-squares linear equations and compute the rmse
> real     , intent(in)   :: aa(:,:) ! matrix of independent variables
> real     , intent(in)   :: bb(:)   ! vector of dependent variable
> real     , intent(out)  :: xx(:)   ! solution of least-squares problem
> real     , intent(out)  :: rmse    ! rmse of regression
> integer  , intent(out)  :: ierr    ! error flag
> 
> In Python, to ensure that aa is a 2-D array and that bb and xx are 1-D
> arrays, you need to write some checking code, which will not be as
> clear as the above declarations IMO. Even if you do this, the errors
> will be caught at run time, not compile time.

What about using the array-module for this?

from import array
aa = [array('d', aa[0]), array('d', aa[1])] # matrix of independent variables
bb = array('d', bb)                         # vector of dependent variable
xx = array('d')                             # solution of least-squares problem

Regards
Mirko



From rob at pyrite.org  Mon Jun  2 14:55:03 2003
From: rob at pyrite.org (Rob Tillotson)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 18:55:03 GMT
Subject: Blogging Software
References: <bbftr6$e0j$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <87add0b98l.fsf@mally.pyrite.org>

ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong) writes:
> I just ran across some lists of Python bloggers. Nice reading. But they
> don't mention what blogging software they're running on.
>
> I know of the Python Desktop Server and ..., err, that's it, actually.
>
> Which others are there, please? Is there a website or three that lists
> these?

There are quite a few... here are just a few links culled from my own
weblog, wherein I try to link to all of them as I find them, lest I
forget:

  Weblog server tools:
    Vellum - http://www.kryogenix.org/code/vellum/
    pyblosxom - http://roughingit.subtlehints.net/pyblosxom/
    mombo - http://www.intertwingly.net/code/mombo/
    Python Desktop Server - http://pyds.muensterland.org/
    Rantelope - http://www.rantelope.com/
    Byline Server - http://pyrite.org/byline/
    
  Other weblog related Python stuff:
    HEP Message Server - http://www.fettig.net/projects/hep/
    tblib (outgoing Trackback library) -
      http://postneo.com/projects/tblib/
    TBPY (incoming Trackback CGI) - http://markpasc.org/code/tbpy/
    pyblogger and RSS tools - http://diveintomark.org/projects/
    Byline - http://pyrite.org/blogauthor/

In the interest of full disclosure I must point out that Byline and
Byline Server are mine, the former is a multiprotocol XML-RPC weblog
client and the latter is the server software I use on my own sites.
There are at least one or two others that I have come across and
forgot to bookmark, too...

--Rob

-- 
Rob Tillotson  N9MTB  <rob at pyrite.org>



From paddy3118 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT  Mon Jun  9 05:24:42 2003
From: paddy3118 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT (Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 10:24:42 +0100
Subject: Hardware take on software testing.
References: <2ae25c6b.0306060450.78e988f9@posting.google.com> <bc0m19$ags$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3EE4525A.9020808@blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT>


Terence Way wrote:
 > On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 09:50:41 -0400, Paddy McCarthy wrote:
 >
 >
 >> If software were tested like hardware...
 >>
 >
 > What you're describing sounds a lot like IBM's Cleanroom: which as I
 > recall had two broad principles: 1. Specify everything and hammer out
 > flaws in review meetings; and 2. Rigorously track bugs (counted from
 > the first time a file is compiled!), using random test data that
 > matches the expected usage.
Ahah!
Its nice to get more evidence of these types of practices having been tried.
 > Despite this, I wonder if the two can be combined: XP with cleanroom
 > testing, resulting in peer-reviewed well-specified software with a
 > MTTF quality metric.  Hrmm.
Not sure on MTTF, but some set of metrics that allow you to at least
compare two separate developments.

- Paddy.




From P.Schnizer at nospam.gsi.de  Fri Jun  6 03:11:48 2003
From: P.Schnizer at nospam.gsi.de (Pierre Schnizer)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 09:11:48 +0200
Subject: Efficient data flow between orthogonal C extensions?
References: <slrnbdsl66.21h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no> <87el29rpmv.fsf@smtp.gsi.de> <slrnbdubsl.32h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no> <87znkwwmbg.fsf@smtp.gsi.de> <slrnbdvdlb.dfi.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no> <slrnbdvgch.la4.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <87of1bwuh7.fsf@smtp.gsi.de>

mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) writes:
> What am I doing wrong?
Now you also have to wrap the callback which has to have the signature:
void callback(char *);

This will result in a "variable" 0x......._p_f_p_char__void, basically the
pointer to the function and the adress. Swig uses the appendix
_p_f_p_char__void to "typecheck" the input. 


I uploaded an example at:
	http://www.itp.tu-graz.ac.at/~pierre/swig_example.tar.gz

I added also the swig generated files, so you can run the test.
You will need swig1.3 to generate the interface files yourself. Note that the
shared object must be named _foo.so

Here a short summary. I changed the signature of the functions. The return
values are considered as error flags. Also a void * pointer was included for
additional arguments. If you are interested I could show you how to convert
them to Py exceptions using typemaps. 

I need a struct to pass the callback and its argument to the python function.
Swig can generate the constructor and destructor aided with the extend
structure. 
In foo.c you will find the c callback "bar" and the helper
function "py_bar". 

test_foo.py executes the functions. 

py_bar needs to get a handle for the PyObject to call. 


Yours sincerely 
	Pierre
> -- 
> Magnus Lie Hetland                "In this house we obey the laws of
> http://hetland.org                 thermodynamics!"    Homer Simpson



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jun  4 14:56:31 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 20:56:31 +0200
Subject: 64 bit python
References: <701f25e6.0306040749.d649f7f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3n0gxlli8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

hyde at math.umn.edu (McKay Hyde) writes:

> Can anyone help?

What help do you need? Just recompile Python using a 64-bit C compiler.
If you don't have a 64-bit C compiler, you'll need to buy one.

Regards,
Martin



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sat Jun 14 00:23:32 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 04:23:32 GMT
Subject: why does python execute line bye line as im coding?????????
References: <20030613235210.11559.00000446@mb-m13.aol.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbel8q3.rc.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On 14 Jun 2003 03:52:10 GMT, L48R4T wrote:
> the above example would execute after i hit return on the first line. not
> giving me the chance to input the second line of code ???????????????????
> any help wi=ould be a blessing thanks 

Ah yes, I've seen this problem before.

Too many punctuation characters.  Try using a single question mark per
question.

-- 
 \        "When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I |
  `\     had any firearms with me. I said, 'Well, what do you need?'"  |
_o__)                                                 -- Steven Wright |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jun  3 10:53:51 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 16:53:51 +0200
Subject: [ANN] PySQLite 0.4.2 released
In-Reply-To: <e305e171.0306030634.556bf64@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1054605965.25413.python-list@python.org> <e305e171.0306030634.556bf64@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EDCB67F.3060001@ghaering.de>

Arsenal wrote:
> Was it compiled with the latest version of Sqlite v2.8.2?

The Windows binaries? Yes, they're indeed statically linked against 
SQLite 2.8.2.

Yes, the new features in 2.8.2, including in-memory databases using 
:memory: rock indeed :-)

-- Gerhard





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Tue Jun 24 07:02:54 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 20:52:54 +0950
Subject: 1== 1 is False?
References: <20030620160734.2ba89f30.delphiro@zonnet.nl> <mailman.1056119630.21165.python-list@python.org> <4b66f6d2.0306240034.23b264@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbfgd4d.1sv.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On 24 Jun 2003 01:34:12 -0700, Thomas N?cker wrote:
> What do i have to do, if i need "more" exactness? 
>
>>>> 2.7
> 2.7000000000000002
> This is a really strange behaviour!

No, it's perfectly normal; you're converting numbers between decimal,
and a fixed-precision binary representation (in the CPU).  Most decimal
fractions can't be represented exactly in binary, so must be stored
approximately.

What's "strange" is asking computers to store decimal fractions in
binary representation, and expecting the representation to be exact.

It cannot be; computers think in binary, not decimal.  Some tradeoff is
inevitable.  If you don't like the tradeoff presented by your CPU's
storage of floating-point numbers, then:

  - Use a different CPU architecture.  You'll still have the problem
    (they all store numbers in binary), but at a different level of
    precision.

  - Use integer arithmetic.  It's faster than *any* floating-point
    representation, and it's surprising how often it's simply not
    necessary to store and calculate fractional values.  Reformat the
    values only on input and output to look like fractions.

  - Use an arbitrary-precision maths library.  It takes a little
    learning, but you can have any precision you like, at a slight
    performance hit.

    <http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-mpz.html>
    <http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxNumber.html>
    <http://gmpy.sourceforge.net/>

-- 
 \      "My roommate got a pet elephant. Then it got lost. It's in the |
  `\                           apartment somewhere."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From MFranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Thu Jun  5 04:40:38 2003
From: MFranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 09:40:38 +0100
Subject: Including binary files in a .py file; advice needed
In-Reply-To: <3EDEB0A6.202@netspace.net.au>
References: <3EDEB0A6.202@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <3EDF0206.1050702@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

Gary Duncan wrote:
> 
> Here's what I want to do; distribute a .py file (a GUI app) with
> an embedded (binary) .GIF file (a photo of me at 1 yo ;) rather than
> distribute both separately. For convenience, mainly.
> 
> 
> If in a Unix shell script, I'd uuencode the .GIF and include the 
> printable-ASCII file in it as a 'here' file. When executed the script
> would 'cat' it out to e.g. a /tmp file from the main body of the script, 
> then uudecode the /tmp file to revert to the original .GIF file.
> 
> I imagine in Python, one could place the uuencoded file (lines)
> as a triple-quoted string, then uudecode it the .py program.
> 
> Anything better ?
> 
> The Martellibot's PIAN is silent on this ;
>    fine book otherwise <0.9 wink>
> 
> - Gary
> 

Gary,

As others have mentioned use the base64 module.  Here is the script I
use to do this with my python Tkinter Apps

------------code------------------


#!/usr/local/bin/python

## gif2py.py
## base64 encode all gif files in current working directory
## and put them in a Pixmaps.py file.....

import sys
import base64

import glob
import os

fout=open('Pixmaps.py', 'w')

for file in glob.glob('*.gif'):
     print file
     fin=open(file)
     fout.write(file[:-4]+"='''")
     base64.encode(fin,fout)
     fout.write("'''\n")
     fin.close()
fout.close()



Then inside my python Tkinter application I can use these directly
(without unpacking them into their original gif files). like so:

import Pixmaps
import Tkinter

images = {"open" : Tkinter.PhotoImage(data=Pixmaps.open)}

b=Button(toplevel, image=images["open"])


I think other GUI toolkits allow you to do somthing similar...


HTH
Martin










From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Sun Jun 29 19:39:58 2003
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 29 Jun 2003 23:39:58 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <c9%Ha.200753$g92.4077297@news2.tin.it> <uy8zy4vzs.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <pNfIa.206219$g92.4232233@news2.tin.it> <slrnbft9b1.fmd.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <bdmr66$j5n$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <slrnbfuu49.1vcv.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:53:12 +0200, Anton Vredegoor <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl>:
> kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes) wrote:
>>> And in neither C++ nor Java can you express "c is a container", either
>>> directly or indirectly, except in comments
>>  That is incorrect for Java, and for most C++ class libraries.
>>    List c = new ArrayList();
>>    c.add("foo");
>>    c.add("bar");
>>    System.out.println( c instanceof Collection );
>>    System.out.println( c.size() );
>>    for(Iterator it = c.iterator(); it.hasNext(); ) {
>>        System.out.println( it.next() );
>>    }
> As some googling seems to indicate this is an extendable list of
> references.

  Yes, Collections hold lists of Object references.

  You can see the javadoc, showing the inheritance tree and interfaces
at:
<http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.1/docs/api/java/util/ArrayList.html>

> Since int doesn't derive from object, this will probably
> fail:
> c.add(1)

  This is true, but it's completely unimportant.  It's annoying at
times, but it's an optimization for efficiency; there are good reasons
why Java is several times faster than Python at most tasks.  You can use
the primitive wrapper classes:
c.add( new Integer(1) );

  On the rare occasions that I have to deal with a lot of Integer
objects, I use a cache of the most commonly-used ranges, but Java's
object creation is well-optimized these days, so there's no great harm
in just newing up an Integer.

  Retrieving the value is done by the ugly but standard idiom:
int n = ((Integer)it.next()).intValue();

  Or you can write your own int container class, if you need to do that
kind of operation frequently.  I find that it rarely comes up, because
Java's normally used at a higher level.

  Java's not *pretty*, but it's a powerful and expressive language.

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"We remain convinced that this is the best defensive posture to adopt in
order to minimize casualties when the Great Old Ones return from beyond
the stars to eat our brains." -Charlie Stross, _The Concrete Jungle_



From wojciech at n0spam-kocjan.org  Mon Jun 30 09:34:15 2003
From: wojciech at n0spam-kocjan.org (Wojciech Kocjan)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:34:15 +0200
Subject: Fast CGI Vs Java Application Servers
In-Reply-To: <nrv3t-q2a.ln1@news.lairds.com>
References: <kAxLa.592$_I3.34571@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3efec309$0$49100$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <nrv3t-q2a.ln1@news.lairds.com>
Message-ID: <bdpe9q$rt0$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Kyler Laird wrote:
> Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> writes:
> 
> 
>>A (fast)CGI program compared to the actual Java program may not be
>>much of a difference, depending on the program of course. What is
>>a *huge* difference is that the Java app is running inside an
>>*application server*. A (J2EE) Application Server provides a
>>rich environment on which to base your scalable enterprise applications:
> 
> 
> Outstanding points.  For trivial applications, CGI is fine, but beyond
> that we get into the need for this infrastructure.  Creating it from
> scratch (or bundling it into each application) is a pain and demands
> ongoing maintenance.  It's great for "tinkerers" but doesn't make
> sense for someone wanting to concentrate on building applications.

That depends. Many companies want to write their own base modules, so 
that they can be extended to meet their needs. This is very time 
consuming, but the upside is that you know the code perfectly and are 
able to fix bugs/enhance the code very fast.

> A Python solution for all of this is Zope.

And a Tcl solution is AOLserver and OpenACS :-)

-- 
WK




From junk at geekabytes.net  Sat Jun  7 17:49:21 2003
From: junk at geekabytes.net (junk)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 15:49:21 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org> <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <3EE25DE1.5010408@geekabytes.net>

Okay,  I know this is somewhat tangential to your discussion; please 
excuse my interruption.

If you care, I wrote a little function that will return the current 
function within a block.  This means, you can have anonymous recursive 
functions like this:

import selfref
factorial = lambda x: ((x==0)*1) or (x * selfref.myself(x-1))

Here is the code:

def myself(*args):
    prevFrame = sys._getframe(1)
    myOwnCode = prevFrame.f_code
    myOwnFuncObj = new.function(myOwnCode, globals())
    return myOwnFuncObj(*args)

The only thing this doesn't do is to capture default arguments!!!

Feedback please?

-- Seth James Nielson

Ed Avis wrote:

>Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:
>
>  
>
>>We already have closures, don't we?
>>
>>   >>> def f(x):
>>   ...     def g(y):
>>   ...         return x + y
>>   ...     return g
>>   ... 
>>   >>> q = f(3)
>>   >>> q(4)
>>   7
>>    
>>
>
>Which Python version does this require?  (The machine to hand has only
>1.5.2, although normally I use 2.2 or so.)
>
>  
>
>>Or do you want to be able to rebind names in outer scopes?
>>    
>>
>
>I mean things like
>
>  def make_adder():
>    x = 0
>    def incr():
>      x += 1
>      return x
>    return incr
>
>  f = make_adder()
>  g = make_adder()
>  print f(), f(), g(), g() # 1 2 1 2
>
>I do apologize for not testing this on the latest Python release, but
>I will upgrade this machine from 1.5.2 soon so I can test my programs
>before posting them to the newsgroup.
>
>Anyway, it's my understanding from past discussions that there is only
>one make_adder.x variable thoughout the whole program.  But I could be
>horribly, horribly confused.
>
>  
>
>>Is anonymity really the point?  If so, it seems quite a minor one to
>>me -- it's just not that big a deal to have to name a small function.
>>    
>>
>
>No, you're right, anonymity isn't really it; what I meant was the
>style of passing around code references and particularly those that
>can carry some scope with them.
>
>  
>
>>(Where are the complaints about having to name small classes?)
>>    
>>
>
>OTOH, think how awkward it would be if you had to name
>small expressions:
>
>    expr0 = f()
>    expr1 = 55
>    result = expr0 + expr1
>
>instead of
>
>    result = f() + 55
>
>OK - defining functions, even in a heavily 'functional' style of
>programming, happens much less often than creating expressions so the
>tradeoffs are different.  Still, I find that lambda often makes code
>more readable by letting you group related things together.
>
>  
>
>>Moreover, if the act of defining the function does not bind a name to
>>it, you need to get a reference to it some other way.  The obvious
>>thing to do is to have the function-defining text be an expression
>>which evaluates to the function object (so you stick it in a list or
>>whatever).  That in turn, as Python syntax is now, entails that it
>>can only contain expressions.
>>    
>>
>
>Indeed.  I know that the current restrictions on lambda are
>syntactic.  However, if the syntax were changed so that lambda could
>contain any one-line construct, that might make it more useful and
>less bizarre-seeming.
>
>  
>
>>But Lisp doesn't use indentation to delimit blocks, nor does it
>>distinguish between statements and expressions, so the comparison is
>>uninformative.
>>    
>>
>
>Just to be clear I wasn't advocating a big multiline lambda with a
>whole indented block underneath it, which I admit would be too
>complicated to work nicely into current expression syntax.
>
>  
>
>>Do you have a language in mind which is a better analogue to Python
>>and could teach us more about these issues?
>>    
>>
>
>I'm afraid I can't think of any because Python is the only language I
>know that treats assignment as binding a name to a (possibly
>immutable) object rather than mutating the state of an existing
>object.
>
>So in C, a variable 'int x;' denotes an area of memory where an
>integer sits, and you can do things to the integer like change its
>value, increment it, and of course get the value.  Perl is also like
>this except that the value could change from being an integer to a
>string or some other type.  (Actually, you can rebind names in Perl
>but that's not the normal programming style.)  In Python you can
>rebind the name x to a different integer (= and +=) but there is no
>way to modify the object pointed at except by calling methods on it -
>and integers do not have a 'set' method.
>
>Maybe Tcl is closer to Python since its 'set' appears to define names
>rather than changing an existing value.  Tcl has a wacky 'upvar'
>mechanism to access names defined in an enclosing scope.  But I think
>this is dynamic scope - the caller's scope, not the scope defining the
>called function - so I don't think it can be used to implement
>closures.  But it would suprise me if Tcl didn't have _some_ way to do
>full closures, you can warp the language to do almost anything.
>
>  
>
>>The main problem is syntactic; thus Terry's suggestion that you
>>produce a grammar rule for your proposal.  (That means BNF, not an
>>informal description such as "anything that can fit on a line".
>>    
>>
>
>How about
>
>    lamda_form ::=
>                "lambda" [parameter_list]: simple_stmt
>
>As you know, simple_stmt is a statement that fits on one line.
>
>  
>
>>>What is strange is not so much the grammar rule for lambda itself, as
>>>the dividing line between what is a statement and what an expression.
>>>      
>>>
>>Fwiw, I agree somewhat with this.  (It just doesn't bother me at all
>>in practice.)
>>    
>>
>
>It didn't bother me at all (well, when first starting to learn the
>language I wondered why 'print' had a different syntax to other calls,
>and whether I could define my own procedures that could be called in
>the same way) until I bumped into the lambda restrictions.  It looks
>as though it is lambda that is particularly peculiar, even though in
>fact it is just inheriting the statement/expression divide from other
>parts of the language.  Elsewhere you don't have to care about the
>difference, because any expression can be used as an expression_stmt.
>
>  
>







From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Mon Jun 23 07:30:03 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:30:03 GMT
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org> <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com> <slrnbf8tsd.qc.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <m3r85nmoch.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnbf9fem.1ej5.missive@localhost.my.domain> <m3wuffi1x7.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <23891c90.0306230142.83612c8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbfdp5t.qk.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On 23 Jun 2003 02:42:49 -0700, Paul Boddie wrote:
> it is fair to say that claiming the suitability of [ASCII plain text]
> because "there are a lot of parsers which use it" is analogous to
> telling a Japanese person that they only need to know the Latin
> alphabet to be able to understand most Western languages.

Good thing nobody's tried to claim that then.  I raised the issue of
ASCII plain text to refute the claim that HTML was the "most widely used
document format".  I make no necessarily related claim about
suitability.

In fact, I raised awareness of the "most widely used document format"
issue to show that just because something is widely used, doesn't
necessarily mean it's suitable in all the place it's used.

Plain text ASCII is great as far as it goes, but for structured data,
a threshold is usually reached where something more complex is needed.
When it is, XML -- encoded as plain ASCII, or some other standard text
encoding -- is a prime choice, in my book.

> There are some pretty solid reasons for choosing XML to represent
> data.

I agree with most of them, and am in favour of choosing XML when
interchangeable, structured data is needed.

(I'm always tempted to leave out the "interchangeable" -- isn't data
essentially useless unless it can be interchanged? -- but then I recall
proprietary formats that enforce vendor lock-in by deliberately
obstructing interchangeability, and realise it still needs to be made
explicit.)

-- 
 \      "One seldom discovers a true believer that is worth knowing."  |
  `\                                               -- Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun 12 08:41:22 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:41:22 -0400
Subject: long-term release schedule?
References: <mailman.1054692908.26987.python-list@python.org> <5654fff9.0306112203.6aa1ef99@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE874F2.4042B9E4@engcorp.com>

Ray Smith wrote:
> 
> "Tim Peters" <tim_one at email.msn.com> wrote in message
> > Python 3.0 in particular would require finding a way
> > to fund at least Guido's time on it, and there's no obvious way (at this
> > time) to do that.
> 
> I'm looking at introducing Python into a corporate environment and the
> above statement seems at least a little worrying (the first time I thought
> about it).

Why would it be worrying in a corporate environment?  Are you
worried that the donated time of the developers will stop
being provided freely to your company?

> Thinking again it seems obvious that any Open Source or Proprietary
> software can be discontinued.  

"Discontinued" has little meaning in this world.  "Development
stopped" might have a little more meaning, except that the source
code is freely available to you to pick up and carry on with any
enhancements you wish to make, if you no longer want to rely on 
others to make those enhancements, unpaid, for your company.

I think in most corporate environments the concern should be on
the stability of the product, and with that in mind, consider the
PBF's (Python Business Forum) focus on Python version 2.2 and 
making sure it is a long-supported and stable release.  Again,
free, without your company paying a dime for it (although it
could become a member of the PBF to help support the effort).

> The core Python language seems very stable, if bug fixes where the
> only changes to Python in the next 5-10 years would Python still 
> gain in popularity as fast as it is now?

How fast is it gaining popularity now?

(Note: I use Python in a corporate environment, and I don't 
really understand your concern.  Commercial software is much less
dependable than Python has proven to be, both from the point of
view of the product itself and from the point of view of the 
community backing it.  Worst case: we grab the source for 2.2
(or whatever version we want to maintain ourselves) and carry on
with our own product line, with less concern than we'd have 
with a commercial product we couldn't get source to.)

-Peter



From chezdique at yahoo.com  Sun Jun  8 05:16:25 2003
From: chezdique at yahoo.com (dique)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 02:16:25 -0700
Subject: Excuting scripts question
References: <bbtq4o$d718f$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE26F88.C86E88BB@alcyone.com> <bbu0bo$df2cq$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE28A13.65FD29DD@engcorp.com> <bbu7gc$ddp76$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <c2c98495.0306080116.40ae59fa@posting.google.com>

Here is a helpful link on Setting up Python for CGI on IIS.
http://www.e-coli.net/pyiis.html

>From the article, it seems that you should put C:\Python22\python.exe
-u %s %s instead. (Perhaps C:\Python22\python.exe -u "%s" "%s" is
safer, with the quotes on.)



"Ken" <ken at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bbu7gc$ddp76$1 at ID-49758.news.dfncis.de>...
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> news:3EE28A13.65FD29DD at engcorp.com...
> > Ken wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Hi, I have a few scripts that ran well in Unix environment with:
> > > > > #!/usr/local/bin/python
> > > > >
> > > > > What do I need to change to if I relocate these scripts on a Windows
> > > > > environment? I have installed Python 2.2.3 in C:\Python22 directory.
> > > >
> > > Hi, I tried to run the script on IE (eg: http://192.168.0.2/test1.cgi)
>  but
> > > it doesn't seem to load. (The script seems to load forever... but
>  ordinary
> > > html files work)
> >
> > And 192.168.0.2 is your own machine?
> Yes
> 
>  Do you have a web server
> > running on it?
> I installed IIS. (I am running Windows 2000 Pro)
> I went into Control Panel/Admin Tools/Internet Information Services/Default
> Web Site and go into properties. In the "Home Directory" tab, I went into
> "Configuration". Clicked "Add", put in the path of python.exe executable
> (C:\Python22\python.exe), extension "cgi" and pressed ok. Is this the right
> way to do it? I am planning to run this Win2000 machine as a web server for
> my cgi scripts that used to reside on a Unix machine. The script files and
> HTML files are saved into the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> IE does not actually execute CGI or Python or
> > anything except *client-side* Javascript and Java.  If you want
> > to execute CGI, you have to have a web server running, and the
> > web server itself executes the CGI and returns its results to
> > IE in the form of HTML.
> >
> > IE can handle HTML that is loaded from the local filesystem, but
> > consider this to be a special feature, not something that means
> > you can treat your hard drive exactly as you treat a web server.
> >
> > If you want to learn more, try looking at CGIHTTPServer in the
> > standard library, or look into setting up another web server
> > locally, perhaps ... Twisted.  :-)
> >
> > -Peter



From bradley at greystate.com  Mon Jun 16 20:27:40 2003
From: bradley at greystate.com (Bradley Schatz)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:27:40 GMT
Subject: ActiveX currency type (MAPI)
References: <cveHa.27$747.1046@news.optus.net.au> <ver3p1nd0ivp9a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <0gtHa.48$747.2146@news.optus.net.au>

Thanks Andrew!

Worked a treat.

-bradley

"Andrew Henshaw" <andrew. henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu> wrote in message
news:ver3p1nd0ivp9a at corp.supernews.com...
> Bradley Schatz wrote:
>
> > I am accessing through MAPI.Session, custom properties of outlook forms
> > that reside in Exchange.
> >
> > I am using the methods described comprehensively on the CDOLive site
> > http://www.cdolive.com/cdo10.htm , specifically the Fields interface.
> >
> > My problem is that for a Field that is of type Currency (the equivalent
> > type of vbCurrency) I am getting a return of a tuple - for example for a
> > price of $ 21,000,000 I get the tuple [4, -474836480]
> >
> > According to the CDOlive documentation, the value should be an 8byte
> > integer scaled by 1000.
> >
> > Has anyone any suggestions on how to coerce win32com to unmarshal this
> > type correctly?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bradley
>
> Not sure if this is the best way, but it should work.
>
> import struct
>
> hi, lo = (4, -474836480)
> value = struct.unpack('q', struct.pack('II', lo, hi))
> print value
>
> >>
> 21000000000
>





From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Tue Jun 17 18:18:25 2003
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:18:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com> <bcnova$ma5$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <bcnpei$96r$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <bco0f3$jvp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <3EEF8B94.84EA2400@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bco43f$6p2$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> pisze:

>> >> More than that - unlike Kerberos, Python can not be taken by any
>> >> particular company and become its "flagship", while being screwed.
>> >>
>> >> Software Craftsmen, please, consider this fact when choosing a license
>> >> for your product - only GNU GPL guarantees that your code will not be
>> >> "taken away" by any company.
>> >
>> > Python is not GPL (something has changed from yesterday?)
>> > It is GPL compatible. This is not the same.
>> 
>> Did I say "Python Craftsmen"? No, I didn't...
> 
> You said "Software Craftsmen", and Python _is_ software.
> 
> Now you need to explain how the Python license would allow a company
> to "take away" Python from those who work on it.
> 
> If you can't do this, the truth of your statement that "only GNU GPL" 
> guarantees this is brought into question.

The current Python license, as found at
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/node630.html may only be
considered "freedom compatible", not "free". If you are Python
developer, you probably don't have any possibility to change current
software license. Developing software with Python (not developing
Python) is other story and this was the case.

I was talking about the other case - when you are a software
developer at our own. That's why I used a term "Craftsman", not an usual
"Author" or anything you may find in usual licenses. I meant the people
who have an unpaid interest in improving software that is in daily use.

If you want to go ballistic after Python license - go on. After all I
will assume Python is still only "freedom-compatible" software - and
"freedom-compatibility" doesn't equal freedom. From european history of
last 70 years you can learn, that you can have some freedoms, tha are
unhumane, so just declaring "freedom" is just nothing. A "freedom
compatibility" is not more anyway. Python (as a language library) can be
"freedom compatible" - but if your software doesn't follow GPL, it is
not free. Freedom compatibility may be broken in one statement - but
freedom not.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
Registered Linux User #-1
http://www.zgoda.biz/ JID:zgoda at chrome.pl http://zgoda.jogger.pl/



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Jun  5 14:36:16 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 20:36:16 +0200
Subject: IDLE raw_input() and unicode
In-Reply-To: <45e6545c.0306041900.7efc3406@posting.google.com>
References: <45e6545c.0306041900.7efc3406@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbo2j0$s5s$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Seo Sanghyeon wrote:
> Should I submit... *normal user shudder* a patch? It's just one-line
> change... Or can someone do all unicode-IDLE-users a favor and submit
> a patch?

This is not necessary. The problem is fixed in Python 2.3.

Regards,
Martin




From yweng at cs.uoregon.edu  Mon Jun 16 01:22:55 2003
From: yweng at cs.uoregon.edu (Yan Weng)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:22:55 -0700
Subject: Anyone did this: Magick++ + boost.python
Message-ID: <bcjkqn$vji$1@pith.uoregon.edu>

It seems a very natural way to wrap ImageMagick. Your opninion?


--
Yan Weng
yweng at cs.uoregon.edu
http://www.cs.uoregon.edu/~yweng/





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jun 19 16:22:51 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:22:51 -0400
Subject: sum(strings)
References: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <Xns939FAB54E7C9Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <w%lIa.209490$g92.4306887@news2.tin.it> <7xu1amvu8g.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <26ecnesdu_IAhm-jXTWJhw@comcast.com>

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:7xu1amvu8g.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> > No, if sum accepted a sequence of strings it WOULD
> > have to delegate to ''.join in that case -- and I just couldn't
> > find an elegant and totally general way to do that.
>
> Why can't it just check if all the values are strings, and delegate
if
> they are?

For one thing, *all* users would have to pay the checking time for
those who wanted to save three chars and write 'sum' instead
of"''.join".  As someone willing to do the latter, doesn't seem quite
worthwhile.

TJR





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jun 10 10:13:55 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 10:13:55 -0400
Subject: Rudeness with names (was Re: interpreted)
References: <M6icneVATOpIWn6jXTWcrg@comcast.com> <mailman.1055194463.17365.python-list@python.org> <bc3ong$i2h$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1055244679.25761.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc4p33$pp0$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1055244679.25761.python-list at python.org>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=  <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>>>Ifman1 wrote:
>>>
>>>>what do you mean "anonymous coward"???
>>>
>>>Somebody not using their real name on usenet and using a pseudonym like 
>>>"Ifman1" instead. I call these people "anonymous cowards" :-)^
>>>
>>>In some cases it's their intention to use these pseudonyms, in some 
>>>cases they just haven't set up their mail client properly. In any case, 
>>>I give them a nudge this way.
>> 
>> Well, I wasn't paying much attention earlier, but I have to say that I
>> consider this rather rude.  How the heck do you know what someone's
>> "real name" is?  
>
>I can't know. But then there are cases where someone just was careless 
>when configuring his/her mail/news client. That's why I give them a 
>nudge in case they weren't aware of it. If they *are* aware of it, they 
>can ignore it :)
>
>I too feel offended by:
>
>- anonymous posters
>- top-posting
>- broken quoting
>
>In one word: carelessness.
>
>Occasionally I will make originators aware of this. If you can't live 
>with this, feel free to killfile me.

That's fine, and you may recall that I've made comments about top-posting
and broken quoting in the past.  But one needn't be rude and insulting
when doing so, particularly in the first response to any given person --
that's not a "nudge".  A better response would be something like,
"Should I call you 'Ifman1'?"
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From lists at gregfortune.com  Wed Jun 11 22:10:58 2003
From: lists at gregfortune.com (Greg Fortune)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:10:58 -0700
Subject: PyQt: Suppressing the header in a ListView
References: <mailman.1055344341.7180.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iiQFa.2776$115.2666801@feed2.centurytel.net>

>From my glance at the Qt docs, no.  

Please direct questions like this at the Qt list rather than the Python 
list.  PyQt is a very thin wrapper on top of Qt.  Visit 
http://trolltech.com for more info.

If you think it is PyQt specific, send messages to the PyKDE (for PyQt and 
PyKDE stuff) list instead of here.

Greg Fortune
Fortune Solutions

Paul McNett wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Anyone know how to hide the header of a QListView? I just have a simple,
> non-hierarchical, one-column list of CheckListItems, and in this case the
> header makes it less visually appealing.
> 
> 




From john.abel at pa.press.net  Mon Jun  9 08:10:52 2003
From: john.abel at pa.press.net (John Abel)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:10:52 +0100
Subject: Problem With Medusa/Unix User Handler 
Message-ID: <3EE4794C.8000800@pa.press.net>

I am trying to set up a small web server, with support for Unix Users
(~username).  However, it doesn't seem to be working.  The handler for
unix_user_handler is being added OK, and default_handler is being
called, but I keep getting 404 returned.  I've put some prompt in
unix_user_handler.py, and default_handler,py.  This is the output from
my startup:

warning: Computing default hostname
info: Medusa (V1.10) started at Mon Jun  9 12:08:39 2003
        Hostname: lestat.howden.press.net
        Port:80

Just Done Init
info: FTP server started at Mon Jun  9 12:08:39 2003
        Authorizer:<__main__.ShadowAuthorizer instance at 0x4060d34c>
        Hostname: lestat
        Port: 21
info: Monitor Server (V1.5) started on port 9999
Chat Server (V1.4) started on port 8888
('/~johnab/', None, None, None)
<unix-style fs root:/home/johnab/public_html wd:/>
warning: unhandled connect event

This is the output from my monitor port:

Welcome to <socket object, fd=10, family=2, type=1, protocol=0>
[Hint: try 'from __main__ import *']
>>> from __main__ import *
>>> dir()
['CHAT_PORT', 'FTP_PORT', 'HOSTNAME', 'HTTP_PORT', 'IP_ADDRESS',
'MONITOR_PORT', 'PUBLISHING_ROOT', 'ShadowAuthorizer', '__builtins__',
'__doc__', '__name__', 'asyncore', 'chat_server', 'cs',
'default_handler', 'dh', 'filesys', 'fs', 'ftp', 'ftp_server', 'hs',
'http_server', 'lg', 'logger', 'monitor', 'ms', 'os', 'resolver', 'rs',
'sh', 'status_handler', 'status_objects', 'sys', 'uh', 'unix_user_handler']
>>> print uh
<Unix User Directory Handler at 08246e5c [~user/public_html, 1
filesystems loaded]>


I'm running SuSE 8.2, with Python2.2, and Python2.3.  I've tested both
0.53, and CVS versions of medusa  The public_html directory does exist
in each user I've tested it with.

Thanks

John






From loredo at astro.cornell.edu  Tue Jun  3 18:43:49 2003
From: loredo at astro.cornell.edu (Tom Loredo)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 18:43:49 -0400
Subject: How to use Sun's CC with distutils?
Message-ID: <3EDD24A5.1B5587B4@astro.cornell.edu>

Hi folks-

I'm trying to install wxPython on a Solaris 8 machine.  gcc fails to compile
the wxGTK configure script's test .cpp code, giving a strange math library link
error that no one here or in a couple newsgroups has been able to help me
with.  I was told by the local experts to use CC for compiling C++ code,
and indeed that lets me build wxGTK fine (configure/make etc.).

Now I'm trying to install wxPython itself with the usual setup.py, and
it fails because gcc can't compile the .cpp files.  I've tried
using a "build --compiler=CC" command, but I get an error:

error: don't know how to compile C/C++ code on platform 'posix' with 'CC' compiler

Anyone know how I should tell distutils to use CC?

Thanks!
Tom Loredo



From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Jun  9 22:30:29 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:30:29 +1200
Subject: exceptions beyond errors?
In-Reply-To: <VyOdnZWCyfy7EHmjXTWcoQ@comcast.com>
References: <mailman.1055136735.26198.python-list@python.org> <VyOdnZWCyfy7EHmjXTWcoQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bc3eib$es439$2@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> This has now been incorporated in the dict.get method so one can
> instead write
> 
> x = mydict.get(key, defaultvalue)

But the exception form is still useful if evaluating
defaultvalue is expensive and you only want to do it
if you really need it.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Wed Jun 18 19:21:47 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 16:21:47 -0700
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
In-Reply-To: <yfsadcf815v.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com>
	 <bcnova$ma5$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <bcnpei$96r$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	 <bco0f3$jvp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <yfsznkg9wvx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
	 <slrnbev66f.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	 <yfsr85s9qoq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
	 <bcoi9d$lh0co$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
	 <yfsznkf8jbv.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
	 <mailman.1055968731.577.python-list@python.org>
	 <yfsadcf815v.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1055978507.26106.108.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 15:35, Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Cliff Wells <LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net> writes:

> > I can see the headlines now: "Stallman suddenly [...] claims
> > ownership of GNU/Linux(tm) [...]"
>                ^^^
> already happened :)

And Linus owns the copyright on "Linux".  Makes no difference to
anyone.  Anyway, I was making a sidelong reference to Stallman's
requests that Linux be referred to as "GNU/Linux" rather than just
"Linux".

Anyway, my point being that no matter how one might feel about
Stallman's views, I don't think anyone can cast any real doubt on his
integrity.  If the GPL changes, it will be to bring the letter in line
with the spirit, not to strip authors or users of their protections or
rights.
Yes, it *is* a matter of trust.  But then so is running any software you
didn't personally write, trusting users not to copy your software
illegally or the clerk at the store to give you the right change. 
Despite appearances, the world runs on trust.  For various reasons, I
happen to trust people in the Open Source world more than others and
will continue to do so until proven wrong.


Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun  9 12:22:59 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 12:22:59 -0400
Subject: m2crypto  documentation
References: <457a5e09.0303260257.4c37287a@posting.google.com> <b60b9i$ilm$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <457a5e09.0303310228.71205e68@posting.google.com> <GOYDa.65001$Ny5.1955504@twister2.libero.it> <u70Fa.73514$lK4.2219963@twister1.libero.it>
Message-ID: <3EE4B463.622F426A@engcorp.com>

Glauco wrote:
> 
> Someone has idea where i can find it ?

Learn to use Google?  http://www.google.com/search?q=m2crypto+documentation



From cdreward at riaa.com  Thu Jun  5 07:26:31 2003
From: cdreward at riaa.com (Chuck)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:26:31 GMT
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com> <m24r34pzkj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <i39udvo7e11828rkmudo93hj3dr68bft95@4ax.com>

>> This doesn't seem very intuitive,
>
>Really??

', which leads me to believe I'm missing "the big picture".', as I said. I'm
sure it is all very simple, once understood.

I'm new here...

>  >>> v = [1,2]
>  >>> arg = v
>  >>> arg.append(3)
>  >>> v
>  [1, 2, 3]

I'm not "getting" variables in Python, then.

What exactly happens when I say "arg = v"?

Not "arg is assigned the value [1,2] that v happens to hold"...

Not "arg now points to v" (can't be, since you can delete v and arg still
exists)

It seems to say, "arg now points to what v also points to".. is this correct?

And so...

a = 1
b = a

is really saying, "b points to what a points to, which is a 'variable' with
the value of 1, which cannot be changed (immutable)".

Is this correct?

If so, I *think* I'm starting to "get it"...  ;-)


>Same as your original function, right?

Seems that way.

So is it safe to say that variables are never "copied" when passed to a
function in Python? No memory is ever allocated, no "second copy" is made,
just a.. uhmm.. a "binding" to the original variable you "passed" as the
argument?





From ask at me.com  Mon Jun 16 19:44:19 2003
From: ask at me.com (Greg Krohn)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:44:19 GMT
Subject: wxPython:  wxNotebooks inside wxSplitterWindow
References: <bcl7jv$huh$1@news-int.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <nDsHa.46884$rO.4641605@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Mikey At Work" <itsmikeytime at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bcl7jv$huh$1 at news-int.gatech.edu...
> I'm having a lot of trouble with a wxNotebook inside of a
wxSplitterWindow.
> I'd like for the notebook to be on the right side of the splitter, but it
> seems to be drawing all of its pages from where the wxSplitterWindow
starts
> (upper left hand corner).  So the content from the notebook that should be
> on the right is spilling into the left hand content.  Has anyone else had
> this happen before?  Has anyone used a wxNotebook on the right or bottom
of
> a wxSplitterWindow successfully?  Thanks for any help you can provide.

It would be helpful if you posted your code. So, while you get your code
ready to post here, let me ask you a question? Is your notebook a child of
the splitterwindow? IIRC, it should be. Not a sibling of splitterwindow.

greg





From basmaker at hotmail.com  Tue Jun  3 09:18:36 2003
From: basmaker at hotmail.com (TheKnight)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 06:18:36 -0700
Subject: Problem: import own Java classes in Jython
Message-ID: <1cb12c87.0306030518.1297fdc0@posting.google.com>

Hi all,
I have a small problem.
I want to be able to call python scripts from my servlet.
Herefore I use Jython.
I would like to make a call from the script to a class from my own
package
Ex:
from a.b.c import MyClass

I get the following error:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "", line 11, in ?
ImportError: no module named a

MyClass should be in the classpath because that class is included in
the war file for deployment and the servlet runs.
jython.jar is in the /WEB-INF/lib directory of the same war file.

I can call and execute scripts from my servlet but the calls from the
script to some servlet classes fails.

Can anyone help me?
Thank alot



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jun 15 16:21:47 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:21:47 -0400
Subject: ezPyCrypto encryption using only public key problem.
References: <3ae39fa7.0306150924.12aae909@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EECD55B.B3EB7982@engcorp.com>

Adrian wrote:
> 
> I've noticed that when encrypting a message using only just a public key
> I get an exception:
> 
> _fastmath.error: Private key not available in this object
> 
> So I did a little digging around in ezPyCrypto.py and saw that when
> encrypting a message it does some sort of decryption verification.
> As far as I know, you can't decrypt without a public/private key pair.
> 
> As a side note, I tried using the ezPyCrypto examples that show
> encrypting a message with only the public key imported (example3.py),
> and they fail to.

I encountered the same issue (at least with the example #3) so I
just commented out the offending (and apparently unnecessary) line
in the source and carried on...  My guess was that it was left
there from development debugging or something.

-Peter



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Jun 12 04:10:23 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:10:23 +0200
Subject: Bug in v1.5.2 Websucker GUI?
References: <7isqqi$8ki@vern.bga.com> <bc88g9$2uv$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <bc9ckd$mb5$1@news.hccnet.nl>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote:

>On Win98Se, Python23:
>
>>d:\python23\pythonw -u wsgui.py
>Exception in Tkinter callback
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "D:\PYTHON23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1337, in __call__
>    return self.func(*args)
>  File "wsgui.py", line 163, in go
>    self.sucker.rootdir = os.path.dirname(
>TypeError: unbound method savefilename() must be called with Sucker
>instance as first argument (got App instance instead)
>>Exit code: 0

My bug-fix:

change only 1 line (164):
                websucker.Sucker.savefilename(self, url))
into:
                websucker.Sucker.savefilename(self.sucker, url))

I've tested it and now it works as expected. Can we get this in
Python23 final? 

Anton




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Sun Jun 15 21:29:29 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:29:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pythonCOM with Flash
In-Reply-To: <87y904gzcr.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <RvPFa.37$zx6.1430@news.optus.net.au> <GV%Fa.2949$GU5.41737@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
 <TVfGa.76$zx6.3873@news.optus.net.au> <xEhGa.3736$GU5.50995@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
 <3ee9bfff$0$8301$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <mailman.1055513666.7326.python-list@python.org>
 <87adckfz28.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1055616628.20982.python-list@python.org>
 <87y904gzcr.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306151821290.27907@ns0.tbye.com>

On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, John J. Lee wrote:

> > If you put the Flash control inside IE you're really
> > not that much closer to the goal and you've created more work for yourself
> > since you have to fiddle with both Python <--> IE as well as IE <--> Flash
> > control.
>
> Not according to Alex.  See the first message here:
>
> http://www.google.com/groups?q=control+container+Martelli+IE+group:comp.lang.python

Well, he _did_ write that before the ctypes days. ;-) But either way there
do seem to be many alternatives.

> Admittedly, I haven't tried it myself.

I have, but I didn't get too far because that route depends (as far as I
understand it) on being able to install win32all (or something similar) so
that you can use Python as an Active Scripting language. That wasn't an
option for me, so I was still left with building the Python<->IE bridge as
well as the IE<->OCX bridge (although not Flash in this case). Having said
that, I'd be the first to admit that my struggles to get it working may
have been tied directly to a poor understanding of the various MS
technologies.

-Dave




From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Jun 17 05:46:02 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:46:02 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: string.find does not work in file
In-Reply-To: <oprqwl86l2sbtoux@news>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306171344320.20161-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, [iso-8859-15] Wolfram Strau? wrote:

> Hi,
> I have a problem to run the following lines in a file.
> >
> import string
> f = open('in.txt')
> for l in f.readlines():
> 	print string.find(l, '"\n')
> <
> 
> In my python shell (version 2.2.2) on a W2000 system the code finds all 
> lines with the pattern. But running the same code as a python scipt in a 
> shell it does not find any pattern.

Maybe the problem is that there are really no \n right after '"'.
For example, the text file uses CRLF line endings.
Try to find '"\r\n'
 
> If you have any idea, please let me know. Thanks Wolfram
> 
> 

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 





From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Mon Jun 23 23:46:55 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:46:55 -0400
Subject: Python and Jython
References: <WJOJa.386$Gf3.1688@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> <vfferg4uvofdf0@corp.supernews.com> <YbPJa.388$Gf3.1684@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>
Message-ID: <zPPJa.1786$OE2.319415@news20.bellglobal.com>

http://www.jython.org/docs/differences.html





From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jun  6 16:40:25 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:40:25 -0500
Subject: Thread State and the Global Interpreter Lock
In-Reply-To: <53u1evk5jmdcgma5e8eupbe3tn45js302i@4ax.com>
References: <53u1evk5jmdcgma5e8eupbe3tn45js302i@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16096.64569.178804.220942@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> Are there plans to make the Python interpreter "fully thread safe" in
    >> a future version?

In what way is it not "fully thread safe" today?

Skip




From lapointe_vincent_1975 at hotmail.com  Tue Jun  3 19:44:38 2003
From: lapointe_vincent_1975 at hotmail.com (Vincent L)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 16:44:38 -0700
Subject: calldll
Message-ID: <efe87e6e.0306031544.7a6bcbc4@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm searching for the python binary module "calldll.pyd" for python
2.3 (for Win32 platform)? (and the file npstruct.pyd)

Where I can find this file?

Thanks a lot
Best regards,

Vincent L.
lapointe_vincent_1975 at hotmail.com



From sabu at pure-elite.org  Sat Jun 28 04:14:17 2003
From: sabu at pure-elite.org (Xavier)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 04:14:17 -0400
Subject: Re/Unresolved bug?
Message-ID: <001c01c33d4d$453a9870$6401a8c0@boxen>

Greetings everyone,

Surely you all will excuse my ignorance if I have found a bug/fault which
is/has/had been un/resolved.  While tinkering around with some of my code,
after finishing about 300 lines of fugly code, I decided to start my nightly
debugging session.. this time it was rather weird what I got in return.  I
got a 'Segmentation fault' after execution of my script on my slackware 8.1
server, running kernel 2.4.19 with Python 2.2.1.  And on my Sentinix
(sentinix.org) box, running 2.4.20-grsec with Python 2.2.3 it doesn't
segfault but instead just closes down scarily.

Here are the examples of the script executions on both machines:

<start of slackware 8.1/linux 2.4.19 python 2.2.1 execution>
# ./t
./t:163: SyntaxWarning: name 'VERBOSE' is assigned to before global
declaration
  def main():
Segmentation fault

(root at boxen)-(03:48am Sat Jun 28)-(root)
# ./t
./t:163: SyntaxWarning: name 'VERBOSE' is assigned to before global
declaration
  def main():
Segmentation fault
(root at boxen)-(03:48am Sat Jun 28)-(root)
# python
Python 2.2.1 (#1, Apr 11 2002, 15:27:15)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>

# gdb python
GNU gdb 5.2
Copyright 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are
welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain
conditions.
Type "show copying" to see the conditions.
There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type "show warranty" for details.
This GDB was configured as "i386-slackware-linux"...(no debugging symbols
found)...
(gdb) run t
Starting program: /usr/bin/python2.2 t
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging
symbols found)...
t:163: SyntaxWarning: name 'VERBOSE' is assigned to before global
declaration
  def main():
(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging symbols found)...(no debugging
symbols found)...
Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x0807f022 in PyErr_NormalizeException ()
<end>

and on my Sentinix boxen with 2.4.20-grsec + Python 2.2.3:

<start>
root at tixdev:~# /usr/local/bin/python2.3 t
t:163: SyntaxWarning: name 'VERBOSE' is assigned to before global
declaration
  def main():
root at tixdev:~#
<end>

As you can see, with python 2.2.3 it just dies out without printing the full
exception, but also gives no 'Segmentation fault'.

Here is what I have:

A global variable on line 108:

<start>
VERBOSE = '0'
<end>

Now, we fast forward to my global statement .. on line 208:

<start>
   global VERBOSE
<end>

Then of course VERBOSE finally gets used on line 227:

<start>
     if VERBOSE == '1': COUNT = COUNT + 1
<end>

And then on line 234:

<start>
   if VERBOSE == '1': print "\n/> routekill has killed the routes on %s IP
addresses." % (COUNT)
<end>

So, do you guys know what's up with this? Thanks a lot.

-- Xavier.

oderint dum mutuant






From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Jun 11 02:41:40 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:41:40 GMT
Subject: unittest: Dynamically creating tests
References: <pan.2003.06.11.23.37.20.424513@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <EaAFa.1242$zu3.988@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

[Jeremy Bowers]
> My problem is that I'm having trouble writing the tests in such a way that
> they execute. Consider the following simplified code that demonstrates
> what I am trying to do:
>
> -------------------
>
> import unittest
>
> tests = unittest.TestSuite()
>
> for i in range(5):
>     class NextTest(unittest.TestCase):
>         def testEquality(self):
>             self.assert_(1 == 1)
>
>     tests.addTest(NextTest)

That should be:

   tests.addTest(unittest.makeSuite(NextTest))



> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     unittest.main()

Don't use main() which expects to parse your file for class names.
Instead, substitute this line:

    unittest.TextTestRunner().run(tests)



Raymond Hettinger





From cgjunkaddr at attbi.com  Tue Jun  3 09:43:52 2003
From: cgjunkaddr at attbi.com (cgjunkaddr at attbi.com)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 06:43:52 -0700
Subject: Need Kobra 2.2
References: <926d3924.0305251704.56539ef4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <17c2b558.0306030543.674f3da7@posting.google.com>

The module has been renamed to DotNet4Py.

I have also added an environment variable like PYTHONPATH for loading
your own assemblies.

Chetan

lamb100 at korea.com (Seunghyun Kim) wrote in message news:<926d3924.0305251704.56539ef4 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi
> 
> Is there anyone who have KOBRA 2.2? I tried to access KOBRA homepage
> but it was blocked. In newgroup I found a posting that the author of
> KOBRA is busy so it will take time to reopen homepage.
> 
> My email address is here:
> lamb100 at korea.com
> 
> If you have KOBRA 2.2, please send me it.
> 
> Thanks in advance



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Wed Jun  4 11:46:51 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed,  4 Jun 2003 08:46:51 -0700
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
Message-ID: <1054741611.3ede146baafd9@mcherm.com>

  [... discussion of descriptor syntax for pre/post conditions ...]

> For the pre- and post-condition stuff this works well.  To
> use lists there you have to extend list constructor syntax somehow, as I
> used in my original message:
> 
>     def foo(...) [pre=foo_pre, post=foo_post]:
>         <normal code here>
> 
> You could also use strings:
> 
>     def foo(...) ['pre=foo_pre', 'post=foo_post']:
>         <normal code here>
> 

I don't think either awkward workaround is necessary. It seems to me
that you could use something like this:

    def foo(...) [precondition(foo_pre), postcondition(foo_post)]:
        <normal code here>

Notice that precondition and postcondition are functions that take
in one function as an argument and give out a function which can be
applied to foo to give foo-prime. Yes, that's abstract, but it's
not as hard to code as it is to talk about. Here's a simple example
which lacks many of the features you'd like in a DBC system but
illustrates what I mean:

    # WARNING: Untested code
    def precondition(tests):
        def decorator(foo):
            def fooPrime(*args, **kwargs):
                if tests(*args, **kwargs):
                    return foo(*args, **kwargs)
                else:
                    raise PreconditionFailure()
            return fooPrime
        return decorator

The level of abstraction here is a far less serious issue than
the need to invent new syntax or the loss of order for the
decorators. Particularly so because precondition and postcondition
would be like classmethod and staticmethod... provided so that
you don't have to write them yourself!

-- Michael Chermside





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun  4 12:33:46 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:33:46 -0400
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
References: <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <3EDDF17B.F7B930E@engcorp.com> <3ede00c9$0$16597$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <3EDE1F6A.53494350@engcorp.com>

deckerben wrote:
> 
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> news:3EDDF17B.F7B930E at engcorp.com...
> > deckerben wrote:
> > By the way, do you really mean DOS, as in MS-DOS or PC-DOS or something
> > *without* Windows running on top, or do you just mean in a DOS window
> > of one of Microsoft's operating systems?
> >
> > If the former, how do you plan to get Python running?  Once you do, are
> > you sure either of the above will work on it?  They might require modules
> > that are not available to you on DOS.
> 
> But Python DOES run under DOS, especially well under DJGPP. Have you seen
> our project at htpp://members.lycos.co.uk/bdeck ??

Okay, so back to point 2: are you sure these packages are fully supported
by the DOS Python you have running?  Is this Python 100% compatible with, 
say, the Win32 version?  Does select.select() work exactly as it is expected
to, and so on?  If so, I guess you're in great shape...

-Peter



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jun 26 08:37:39 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:37:39 GMT
Subject: Reading a binary file
References: <3EFAA842.1070505@semafor.ch> <20030626083305.GF17335@frobozz> <mailman.1056620083.21078.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nOBKa.323298$3n5.225434@news2.central.cox.net>

"Sorin Marti" <mas at semafor.ch> wrote in message
news:mailman.1056620083.21078.python-list at python.org...
> Hi Andrew,
>
> Thanks for your answer!
>
> Andrew Bennetts wrote:
> > On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 10:01:06AM +0200, Sorin Marti wrote:
> >
> >>But now I need the hex values of the binary file.
> >
> > You can get the hex value of a 1-character string with hex(ord(char)),
e.g.:
> >
> >     >>> char = 'a'
> >     >>> hex(ord(char))
> >     '0x61'
> >
>
> That is not exactly what I meant. I've found a solution (a is the binary
> data):
>
> b = binascii.hexlify(a)
>
> For example it gives me C8 which is a HEX-Value. How to change this one
> into a decimal? (The decimal should be 130, right?)
>

If a is the "binary data" (i.e. a one-byte string) then ord(a) is indeed the
answer you want:

>>> import binascii
>>> for c in "ab12+":
...     print binascii.hexlify(c), ord(c)
...
61 97
62 98
31 49
32 50
2b 43
>>>

Or is there something else you aren't telling us?

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From milf at tendoworld.com  Thu Jun 26 10:22:31 2003
From: milf at tendoworld.com (MiLF)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:22:31 +0800
Subject: Is it possible to write a Audio CD Player by using python only?
References: <bdespa$rku$1@news.seed.net.tw> <bdeufh$nmb$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr>
Message-ID: <bdev3m$s0a$1@news.seed.net.tw>

libcdaudio is good but doesn't support all plateform, can you recommend
another one that can croos-plateform?

"Steve McAllister" <nosp at m.needed> ?????
news:bdeufh$nmb$1 at alto.univ-mlv.fr...
> > Is it possible to write a Audio CD Player by using python only?
>
> Of course.  But ...  shall you reinvent the powder?  Cannot you
> simply interface, for instance, libcdaudio?
>





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun 26 09:48:09 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:48:09 -0400
Subject: Reading a binary file
References: <mailman.1056614502.25759.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EFAF999.2F77CACF@engcorp.com>

Sorin Marti wrote:
> 
> I am quite new to python and very new to this list.
> 
> I've got following problem. I have a binary file which contains
> information I should read. I can open the file with
[snip]

It would really be best if you could describe in more detail
what you are trying to do with this data.  Bytes are bytes,
and things like hex and binary are just different _representations_
of bytes, so whether you want binary, hex, decimal, or something
else depends entirely on the use to which you will put the info.

-Peter



From no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid  Tue Jun 10 12:01:37 2003
From: no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid (Robert Oschler)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:01:37 GMT
Subject: User rated list of Python modules?
Message-ID: <BhnFa.670$Hw.862962@news2.news.adelphia.net>

Is there some place that maintains a list of Python modules, with user
ratings of the modules, like the way the ASPN cookbook recipe site works?

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python

thx

--
Robert Oschler,
Android Technologies, Inc.
http://www.androidtechnologies.com
- The home of Off-Book! (tm)
The scene memorization tool for Actors and Actresses






From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jun 29 23:51:22 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 03:51:22 GMT
Subject: console mp3->wav decoder for $indows or GUI one which supports console
References: <bdnvc9$ktc$1@news.rol.ru> <slrnbfv0vi.vc1.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <bdo1oo$lof$1@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <slrnbfvctt.7ad.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:54:39 +1100, Egor Bolonev wrote:
> I'm looking for..

Looking for what?  Is it anything to do with comp.lang.python?

>> We're seeking a descriptive message body.
> What? I did't understand?

You didn't ask anything, and didn't say anything.  So I'm wondering what
your post was about.

-- 
 \          "I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate |
  `\          those who do. And for the people who like country music, |
_o__)                     denigrate means 'put down'."  -- Bob Newhart |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Jun  4 14:04:25 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:04:25 +0100
Subject: Zope breakins
Message-ID: <KHQTWgApSj3+EwJt@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

I notice that a Zope installation that has been running happily for some
time has changes that I don't expect.

I originally set it up with two FTP servers on ports 21 and 8021, but I
now see an FCGI server on port 21 (using the /Status page). This version
is pretty out of date and I don't have good access

# Zope version: 2.0+
# Python version: 1.5.2 (#0, Apr 13 1999, 10:51:12) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)]
# System Platform: win32

so are there well known ways into Zope that could make an FTPServer
transmute into an FCGIServer? If someone can do that do they have shell
access ie have they installed their own cgi scripts somewhere?

If this were my machine I would upgrade to a later Zope/Python, but that
might require some work as it runs a numerical economic model using
quite old fashioned Numeric.

Googled for info on Zope hacks & breakins etc but there seem to be a
huge number of zope related issues, but this seems like a break at the
medusa level?
-- 
Robin Becker



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jun 15 16:35:39 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:35:39 +0200
Subject: Python articles
In-Reply-To: <nrkpevsm7psg011fvqs0qjh6uj2jjbmjph@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.1055704587.15481.python-list@python.org> <nrkpevsm7psg011fvqs0qjh6uj2jjbmjph@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3eecd89a$0$49116$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

John Hall wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:13:19 -0300, Gustavo Niemeyer
> <niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>[1] https://moin.conectiva.com.br/GustavoNiemeyer
> 
> 
> Your website is about 2 meters wide, but my monitor only about 300mm,
> so reading it is rather inconvenient.
> (IE V6 on Windows 2000 Pro)
> 

No trouble here with Mozilla 1.3.1, and Konqueror.
You're probably suffering from IE's flaky CSS support.

I did have to accept an invalid SSL certificate though...

--Irmen






From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Mon Jun 23 17:31:36 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:31:36 +0000
Subject: "eval" function
References: <s6nJa.8480$Hb.147731@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <3EF771B8.2060504@removeme.free.fr>

Eirik wrote:
> How can I do what I would do like this:
> 
> set a 12
> set b 144
> eval a*a == b
> 
> in Tcl?

Sorry, but I dont do Tcl. Maybe you'd get better answers on a Tcl 
related newsgroup ?-)

Bruno




From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Jun  8 21:12:16 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 21:12:16 -0400
Subject: pickle vs cPickle: error is not raised at unpickle / windows vs
 linux (!) (repost)
In-Reply-To: <3ee1ed56$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEHJEJAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Irmen de Jong]
> windows vs linux (!) (repost)
>
>
> Irmen de Jong wrote:
>
>> I'm experiencing  a problem with pickle vs cPickle. [...]
>> - python 2.2.2 *and* 2.3b under linux tell me everything is fine
>
> Scratch that. I did something wrong, Python2.2.2 and 2.3b on
> Linux act the same as on Windows.
>
> Still, my first question remains:
>
>> 1) with the unmodified code, why doesn't cPickle raise an error when
>> the unpickling gets in an endless loop ?

This is why bug reports don't belong on comp.lang.python:  the context is
lost, and I don't have time to go searching for it.  When you don't get a
reply to a repeated question about dubious behavior, it's probably because
nobody reading c.l.py knows the answer.  In this case, there are maybe two
people on Earth who understand all the pickle changes going into 2.3, and
Guido (the one who knows best) rarely has time to read c.l.py anymore.

So, if you think this is an important question, please gather all the pieces
and open a single coherent bug report on SourceForge.  Or, if it's an idle
question, feel encouraged to keep replying to yourself about it on c.l.py
<wink>.





From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sun Jun 15 17:35:49 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:35:49 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <veppko3s2lhd07@news.supernews.com>

<beliavsky at aol.com> wrote in message
news:3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0 at posting.google.com...
> In Python, you don't declare the type of a variable, so AFAIK there is
> no way for the interpreter to check that you are calling functions
> with variables of the correct type.

A nit. Actually, the interpreter does find this out. It's the compiler
that's clueless.

> Thus, if I define a function correl(x,y) to compute the correlation of
> two vectors, which makes sense to me only if x and y are 1-D arrays of
> real numbers, Python will not stop me from trying to compute the
> correlation of two arrays of integers or strings. C++ and Fortran 95
> compilers can spot such errors.
>
> Calling functions with invalid arguments is one of the commonest
> programming errors,

I'm not sure I'd go that far. What's a common programming
error depends on the programmer, after all.

> and I think it is worthwhile to declare variables,
> especially the dummy arguments of functions, explicitly to avoid such
> errors, even if it takes a few more lines of code. I worry that
> Python's convenience in writing small programs comes at the cost of
> making bug-free large programs more difficult to write.

It depends on your programming style. If you're in the habit of
writing several hundred lines of code at a time, and then debugging it,
you're probably right - a compile error would be a lot more productive
than finding it out several hours into a debugging session.

On the other hand, if you're using an incremental program construction
process like XP's Test Driven Development, then it doesn't make any
difference at all. The interpreter will give you the stack trace a
couple
of seconds later than the compiler would be able to give you an error
message.

> I have only been programming in Python for a few weeks -- am I right
> to worry?
> Are there techniques to ensure that functions are called with
> appropriate arguments?

A lot of programmers like to use the "assert" statement for
additional checks on the arguements. Assert will be compiled out
if you specify optimization, so it doesn't have production performance
issues, and many people think that it helps in documenting what the
proper inputs are to a method.

Also, there's a lot of work going into a facility that will be
similar to Eiffel's "Design by Contract."

> When I actually try to call correl(x,y) in the program
>
> from stats import correl
> from Numeric import array
> a = array(["a","b"])
> b = array(["c","d"])
> print correl(a,b) # should be arrays of Floats, not strings
>
> I get the result
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "xcorr.py", line 5, in ?
>     print correl(a,b)
>   File "stats.py", line 88, in correl
>     ax  = mean(x)
>   File "stats.py", line 57, in mean
>     return sum(x)/n
> TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for /: 'str' and 'int'
>
> It's good that the program crashes rather than returning a bad result,
> but a C++ or Fortran 95 compiler would flag the bad arguments during
> compilation, which I think is still better. Also, in a large script,
> the bad call to correl(x,y) could come after much CPU time had
> elapsed, potentially wasting a lot of programmer's time.

Again, see my comment about incremental development. It's
much more important in a language like Python, although it will
undoubtedly help any language.

John Roth





From nomail at nomail.com  Wed Jun  4 06:15:26 2003
From: nomail at nomail.com (Michael Schmitt)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:15:26 +0200
Subject: Fixed-length fields in Martel
References: <bbfbio$29u5j$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de> <bbfstn$2mb$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <bbkgrv$2di5g$1@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>

Hello Andrew.

> Michael Schmit:
>> Is the a way to handle fixed-length fields with Martel. The often used
>> 'split-by-whitespace'-approach fails, if fields can be empty.
> 
> Do you mean my Martel, the regexp parser which generates SAX events?

Yes.

> You could do
> 
> field = Group("fixed_field", Re(".{10}"))
> fields = Rep(field)
> 
> That would parse your whole file in groups of 10.
> 
> If you had something more complicated, like
> 
> 6 characters for the field name
>   - if the field name is "ATOM  " then
>       1 space
>       4 characters for the atom name
>       6 characters * 3 for the coordinate
> 
> you could do
> 
> def fixed_width(name, size):
>   return Group(name, Re("."*size))
> 
> ATOM_LINE = (Str("ATOM  ") + Str(" ") + fixed_width("name", 4) +
>       fixed_width("x", 6) + fixed_width("y", 6) + fixed_width("z", 6) +
> AnyEol())
> 

That is almost exactly what I was looking for.

Some more questions:

Postprocessing:
What would you suggest for processing this tabular data? The desired output 
would be a table (list of lists). Naming each column might be too 
complicated for many columns. Pass the whole table as event and disassemble 
in the ContentHandler? Pass lines as events? This would make the 
ContentHandler to disassemble the table again. How to avoid this 
redundancy?

Validity:
If the lines have no fixed part (like "ATOM") the combination of fixed_width 
expressions matches any line of appropriate length. How to make that more 
robust. Require whitespace separation between columns?


Thanks a lot for your help.

Regards, 
Michael












From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Sat Jun 14 10:46:54 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 07:46:54 -0700
Subject: How to test if a variable has a natural number?
References: <bc8a37$flfio$1@ID-108519.news.dfncis.de> <EpOFa.27679$7n1.875205@twister.tampabay.rr.com> <mailman.1055375241.9496.python-list@python.org> <84fc4588.0306120350.8c4f8d1@posting.google.com> <yfsznknjn5w.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <ad052e5c.0306121556.46c82564@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0306140646.37564b71@posting.google.com>

You can still use types. Just add a check for LongTypes also.

from types import *

def natural(num):

    if num>=0 and (type(num) is IntType or type(num) is LongType):
        return 1
    else:
        return 0


>>> natural(1L)
1
>>> natural(100000000000L)
1
>>> natural(2.0)
0
>>> natural(-1.0)
0

~Anand 
danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop) wrote in message news:<ad052e5c.0306121556.46c82564 at posting.google.com>...
> Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<yfsznknjn5w.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk>...
> > pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai) writes:
> > 
> > > How about this...
> > > 
> > > from types import *
> > > 
> > > def natural(num):
> > >     if num>0 and type(num) is IntType:
> > >         return 1
> > >     else:
> > >         return 0
> > 
> > Nope. 
> > 
> > >>> natural(1L)
> > 0
> 
> How about...
> 
> def natural(num):
>    return num > 0 and num == long(num)
> 
> ?



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Jun  9 19:14:13 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 19:14:13 -0400
Subject: Home directory problem
In-Reply-To: <3EE4F311.7020009@freemail.hu>
References: <3EE4AFDD.9020604@freemail.hu> <3EE4C719.3080304@rogers.com> <3EE4F311.7020009@freemail.hu>
Message-ID: <3EE514C5.1010404@rogers.com>

Nagy L?szl? Zsolt wrote:

> Mike C. Fletcher wrote:
>
>> This is the kind of thing that should really be in a module in the 
>> standard library, with lots of testing/collaboration establishing a 
>> robust solution.  I don't really have time to build such a thing, but 
>> here's a start that might help someone else work it up (attached).
>
...

> This is really something that should be in the standard library. 
> Although, you code requires winall extensions. :-) I'm scared about 
> Mac users too. 

Actually, my code only *requires* _winreg, which should be standard on 
Win32 systems (AFAIK) with Python 2.2+.  It'll use win32all if it's 
available, as it provides access to the "correct" API, but the code will 
retrieve the value from the registry directly if necessary.

I don't even have access to a Mac machine, hence my 
"testing/collaboration" comment above.  Users of weird ;) platforms need 
to stand up contribute code if they want their platform supported :) .

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From pfalcone at free.net.ph  Sat Jun 28 20:32:03 2003
From: pfalcone at free.net.ph (Paolo Alexis Falcone)
Date: 28 Jun 2003 17:32:03 -0700
Subject: OverflowError in pyPgSQL when accessing tables with many rows
References: <ea170aaf.0306271856.3916b5f@posting.google.com> <3EFDB843.5090106@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <ea170aaf.0306281632.44d236c@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<3EFDB843.5090106 at ghaering.de>...

> Can you perhaps first try the CVS version of pyPgSQL?
> 
> It seems to me that the bug you've encountered is bug #697221, which is 
> already fixed in the CVS version:

I've tried it and it already works like a charm :-)

Thanks!

 -->paolo

Paolo Alexis Falcone
pfalcone at free.net.ph



From glauco at sferacarta.com  Mon Jun  9 09:40:42 2003
From: glauco at sferacarta.com (Glauco)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:40:42 GMT
Subject: m2crypto  documentation
References: <457a5e09.0303260257.4c37287a@posting.google.com> <b60b9i$ilm$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <457a5e09.0303310228.71205e68@posting.google.com> <GOYDa.65001$Ny5.1955504@twister2.libero.it>
Message-ID: <u70Fa.73514$lK4.2219963@twister1.libero.it>

Someone has idea where i can find it ?


Glauco





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Tue Jun  3 01:30:54 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 05:30:54 GMT
Subject: how to create module documentation: gendoc? pythondoc? other?
References: <ec338771.0306022118.363faa6b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbdocuq.che.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 2 Jun 2003 22:18:01 -0700, Jeff McCarrell wrote:
> What is the preferred method to autogenerate module documentation
> these days?

There is a great momentum behind the docutils project, using
reStructured Text as the preferred docstring format:

  <http://docutils.sourceforge.net/>

Currently, though, docutils is still in development.  I'm not sure of
the preferred docstring-to-documentation generator for released versions
of Python.

-- 
 \      "For my birthday I got a humidifier and a de-humidifier. I put |
  `\      them in the same room and let them fight it out."  -- Steven |
_o__)                                                           Wright |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From pete at shinners.org  Mon Jun  9 11:20:13 2003
From: pete at shinners.org (Pete Shinners)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:20:13 -0700
Subject: read a unicode file
Message-ID: <bc28if$n85$3@main.gmane.org>

i have a text file of unicode data. i'm not sure how to read this from a 
file. i can read() it into a massive python string, but cannot get it to 
convert to unicode. it's definitely inefficient to read it all at once, 
but i expect the files i'll be reading aren't too large to cause problems.






From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Jun  3 18:05:45 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 18:05:45 -0400
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <5uR3+kKkXsVD092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Kevin Smith <Kevin.Smith at sas.com> wrote previously:
|A new proposed syntax for method modifiers is as follows:
|    def classmethod foo(cls):
|        <code goes here>
|    def staticmethod bar():
|        <code goes here>

+1

But it needs a PEP.

--
 mertz@  _/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: \_\_\_\_    n o
gnosis  _/_/             Postmodern Enterprises            \_\_
.cx    _/_/                                                 \_\_  d o
      _/_/_/ IN A WORLD W/O WALLS, THERE WOULD BE NO GATES \_\_\_ z e





From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Thu Jun 12 09:19:57 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:19:57 +1000
Subject: SocketServer - Connection Reset By Peer (Randomly)
Message-ID: <36%Fa.387$5e4.12506@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Hi all, please, any help would be much appreciated as I am going mad here
:-)

I am using Python's SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer. It all works fine up to
a point. I have a single script called controller.py that resides in my
scriptalias folder. It's sole purpose  is to simply take a cgi request
convert it to an xml request and send it to the application server. Why ?
well later we might want to open it to other applications, so instead of
writing more code, other applications simply send an xml request directly to
the app server. The app server builds a request object and does some basic
validation then passes the request object to the Dispatcher instance that
will then dispatch it to the appropiate class in the model layer.

I can sometimes submit the webpage (controller.py) 10 times without an
Internal Server Error, and sometimes 3, its random, the http log files says:


File "/www/bi/cgi-bin/controller.py",line 30, in ?
response = sock.recv(1024)
socket.error: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')

Has anyone experienced this strange behaviour ?

Regards


Graeme








From gvwilson at cs.utoronto.ca  Wed Jun  4 11:31:11 2003
From: gvwilson at cs.utoronto.ca (Greg Wilson)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:31:11 -0400
Subject: [wanted] Python news threader/archiver
Message-ID: <shoDa.9119$945.26048@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

I am looking for Pythonware that will download news items from an NNTP feed
for archival storage, and construct a threaded index page as it does so.
Barry Warsaw has pointed out that I can do this using Mailman, but that
seems like a rather large hammer.  If anyone has something that will do
this, please let me know.

Thanks,
- Greg





From arsenal_hl at yahoo.com.hk  Sat Jun  7 21:03:03 2003
From: arsenal_hl at yahoo.com.hk (Arsenal)
Date: 7 Jun 2003 18:03:03 -0700
Subject: imghdr.what failed to identify JPEG
Message-ID: <e305e171.0306071703.79d45683@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I have 206 jpg files. And imghdr.what returns 'None' for 52 of them,
and I found that actually those 52 files can be viewed perfectly with
an image viewer (xnview), and xnview also identifed them as JPEG
TrueColor(v1.1) in the File Properties.

Is it true that the jpg file format has more than one "identifying
signature" which the imghdr.what function didn't yet incorporate, and
hence the false negatives?

Thanks!



From brian at sweetapp.com  Tue Jun  3 20:33:53 2003
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 17:33:53 -0700
Subject: Whre is my object ??
In-Reply-To: <bbjch9$ihp$1@news1.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <00cf01c32a30$fa0cde50$21795418@dell1700>

> I bet the base question is: Will my object be garbage-collected?

Didn't you ask the original question? Why do you have to guess about the
semantics of your own question?

> I mean once I delete it it is no more referenced, right?

Yes. However, in the example that you describe there is still a
reference inside the list.

> I can still manipulate it till it exist, because I have a pointer to
its
> instance, but when (and most of all if) python checks for bindings it
will
> find the object is not any more referenced to by any name.

The fact that it is not referenced by name is irrelevant. Python will
keep the object alive as long as it can be accessed in any manner (1).

(1) For the mega Python weennies: the exception is weak references,
which  
    will not keep an object alive.

Cheers,
Brian





From oinkfreddie at oinkmadcowdisease.oinkorg  Mon Jun 23 17:50:11 2003
From: oinkfreddie at oinkmadcowdisease.oinkorg (Freddie)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:50:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Getting a list of an object's methods?
References: <Xns93A2DFFF69BDCfreddiethescaryeleph@203.10.110.105> <bd498r$o0ehq$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de> <yfsk7be5e5f.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <bd4sst$pcteb$1@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de> <yfsel1l651p.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <bd7qdu$pkgc5$2@ID-114079.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <Xns93A44AA9AAB70freddiethescaryeleph@203.10.110.105>

Jeremy Yallop <jeremy at jdyallop.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
news:bd7qdu$pkgc5$2 at ID-114079.news.dfncis.de: 

> Alexander Schmolck wrote:
>> The premises are right, but they don't entail the conclusion. `dir`s
>> behavior is not guaranteed to be stable, but `inspect.getmembers`'s
>> obviously is [1]. 
> 
> [further logic and "obvious" things snuipped]
> 
> All very well, but inspect.getmembers is implemented using dir() /now/, 
> and doesn't return all of the methods in the /currently-existing/ 
> versions of Python that the OP wants to use.  It isn't an appropriate
> solution, unfortunately.
> 
>> I don't think "What methods does this object have?" is a question
>> that only a python wizard should be able to ask and receive a
>> well-defined answer.
> 
> Well, that's certainly true.
> 
> Jeremy.
> 

The dir(self.__class__) works OK for me, since they're all wacky custom 
classes. I would still like to know why, in Python 2.1, none of the methods 
show up for when using dir() (or __dict__) on an instance of the class. It's 
really quite odd :)

>>> len(dir(blah)), len(dir(blah.__dict__))
(24, 24)
>>> len(dir(blah.__class__)), len(dir(blah.__class__.__dict__))
(49, 49)

Thanks to the various people who helped me out again :)

Freddie
 
--------------------------------------------------------------
Remove the z's from my e-mail address if you really want to



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Fri Jun 27 09:36:01 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 07:36:01 -0600
Subject: Namespacedifference reading - writing ??
In-Reply-To: <13a533e8.0306270455.431d3cfd@posting.google.com>; from p-abel@t-online.de on Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 05:55:31AM -0700
References: <13a533e8.0306270455.431d3cfd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030627073601.B4792@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Peter Abel:
  [...]
> Is there really a difference in namespacehandling depending
> on writing or reading variables?

Yes.  Assigned-to variables are local; variables merely referred
to may be found in nested scopes.

    "When a name is used in a code block, it is resolved using the
    nearest enclosing scope. [...] If a name is bound in a block, it
    is a local variable of that block. [...] If a name binding
    operation occurs anywhere within a code block, all uses of the
    name within the block are treated as references to the current
    block. [...] The local variables of a code block can be determined
    by scanning the entire text of the block for name binding
    operations."
                <http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/naming.html>

(Note that defs and whatnot are also name-binding operations.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                   w_w
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      ,-= U
                                                               1 1




From gupt_vive at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 21 03:24:22 2003
From: gupt_vive at hotmail.com (vivek kumar)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:54:22 +0530
Subject: Tkinter dialog boxes
Message-ID: <Law15-F43djy7S4aMnm00019e1e@hotmail.com>

>From: "Tony Evreshed" <tony_evershed at yahoo.co.uk>

>I've been using the tkMessageBox in Python to create small dialogs to
>instruct the user in what to do next, and I've noticed that the boxed are
>alays 'on top' of the screen - that is, it's not possible to cover them 
>with
>another window.
>Is there any way to do this with dialogs created in this way?
>If not, how should I create dialogs that correspond to the askyesno and
>showinfo dialogs but can also have other windows in top of them?

If this means that you want a dialog that will be on top of its application 
and not on top systemwide then the following code may help you.

#dialog class
class myDialog:

    #class constructer takes the master widget instance reference as 
parameter
    def __init__(self,parent):
        self.parent=parent

        #create a top level windows that will hold other widgets in it
        top=self.top=Toplevel(parent)

        #make the widget a child widget of the parent
        self.top.transient(parent)

        #create other widgets on the top level widget
         ........................

        #set the initial focus on whatever widget of this widget you want
        self.myTextWidget.focus_set()

        #get the focus for the top level widget
        self.top.grab_set()


Hope that this is of some help to you.

Regards
Vivek Kumar

_________________________________________________________________
Smile a little. Enjoy the summer with Joggers' Park! 
http://server1.msn.co.in/sp03/joggerspark/index.asp





From glauco at sferacarta.com  Mon Jun 30 03:09:57 2003
From: glauco at sferacarta.com (Glauco)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:09:57 GMT
Subject: SOAP  client
References: <PAVKa.126576$lK4.3527903@twister1.libero.it> <yyybrwj8lpq.fsf@adams.patriot.net> <dc6f5c99.0306291603.374dcf9c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9nRLa.133711$lK4.3751900@twister1.libero.it>

Graham Dumpleton wrote:
> Nick Vargish <nav at adams.patriot.net> wrote in message news:<yyybrwj8lpq.fsf at adams.patriot.net>...
> 
>>Glauco <glauco at sferacarta.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>>I'm going crazy because function are not documented .
>>>Exist another solution for di a SOAP CLient ??
>>
>>There's ZSI, which has been called "more mature" by some people, but I
>>can't see much of a difference in approachability. Neither seems to be
>>very well documented. What I could really use are some more
>>examples...
>>
>>Here's one of the Perl scripts I'm trying to translate:
>>
>>  use SOAP::Lite;
>>  print SOAP::Lite
>>    -> uri('urn:Temperatures')
>>    -> proxy('http://clerkcap.house.gov/scripts/temper.pl')
>>    -> f2c($ARGV[0])
>>    -> result;
>>
>>It's just one call. What's the Pythonic equivalent, using either
>>SOAP.py or the ZSI package?
>>
>>Obviously, I need a better understanding of how SOAP is supposed to
>>work, but even that basic documentation is surprisingly hard to find
>>on the Web.
> 
> 
> One of the issues with ZSI is it is more setup for use in calling
> servers where
> methods use named parameters. The above example, which actually
> appears
> uncontactable, uses positional parameters and not named parameters. To
> this end, the simplest mechanism provided by ZSI to make calls, isn't
> going
> to work properly for various reasons.
> 
> If you are indeed only interested in servers where methods have
> positional
> parameters, you might have a look at the "zsirpc" module for Python.
> This
> module is a simple wrapper around ZSI providing a kindler interface in
> the
> style of the "xmlrpclib" module specifically for calling servers with
> methods
> using positional parameters only.
> 
> If you want to try this out without having to download the package, go
> to
> the address:
> 
>   http://www.dscpl.com.au/soap-debugger.php
> 
> This is a web based front end around the SOAP client code which the
> "zsirpc"
> module provides. It will allow you to make calls against services
> accessable
> over the Internet to gauge whether the ZSI package is going to work
> for you
> in the manner that the "zsirpc" interface uses it.
> 
> The equivalent Python code using the "zsirpc" module to make the same
> Perl
> call as you list is:
> 
>   import zsirpc
> 
>   url = 'http://clerkcap.house.gov/scripts/temper.pl'
>   uri = 'urn:Temperatures'
>   action = ''    
> 
>   #service = zsirpc.RemoteService(url,ns=uri,soapaction=action)
>   service = zsirpc.RemoteService(url,ns=uri)
> 
>   print service.f2c(32.5)
> 
> Unfortunately I can't verify that this works since the call times out
> against that
> service.
> 
> As the interface provided by "zsirpc" is simpler in that it is a much
> more
> restrictive interface doing one specific thing, the documentation
> needed to
> cover it isn't much. For that go to:
> 
>   http://ose.sourceforge.net/browse.php?group=python-manual&entry=manual.htm
> 
> and then go into the chapter title "Remote Access" and look for the
> documentation
> on the "SOAP Gateway" to see how the client is configurable. Frankly
> though, the "ns"
> and "soapaction" attributes above are about as far as it goes. Do note
> however,
> that "zsirpc" is a subset of what is described in all that
> documentation and is provided
> as a separate package as a convenience. Where the documentation says
> "netrpc.soap"
> read it is meaning "zsirpc" and if something refers to just "netrpc",
> again in code using
> just "zsirpc", use "zsirpc" instead of "netrpc".
> 
> The only other bit of extensibility built in is that it has the
> ability to automatically manage
> types for Boolean, Binary (as BASE64), Date, DateTime, Time and
> Duration. Information
> about these types is described in the "Message Encoding" chapter of
> the documentation.
> You should ignore the bits about adding in new types as that only
> applies to the framework
> that "zsirpc" has been extracted from. If you did want to add news
> types with "zsirpc"
> you would need to drop down and use the ZSI packages way of defining
> typecodes. You
> might have to override an encoding method in the "zsirpc" package as
> well, but can't
> remember right now.
> 
> One warning, and I believe this still also applies to ZSI as well.
> That is, that ZSI seems
> to only interpret its own type of error response as returned by
> servers. Thus, it will
> work fine against a ZSI server, but use it against another server
> which uses its own
> means of encoding the detail associated with an error response, and
> you might not
> be able to do too much with it. The "zsripc" package understands the
> ZSI error response
> and one other which is particular to the framework it has been
> extracted from,  so it
> doesn't do too much more to help you in that respect.
> 
> As to where you can get "zsirpc" from, go to the downloads section of:
> 
>   http://ose.sourceforge.net
> 
> You might also be interested in getting down the "netrpc" package.
> This contains both
> a SOAP client and XML-RPC client where the interface is basically the
> same with type
> objects interchangeable between both. Use "netrpc" instead of "zsirpc"
> and you will not
> need to translate names when applying what the documentation says.

This is great i'll try it now !!

Glauco




From newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com  Thu Jun 19 12:19:03 2003
From: newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com (Daniel Fackrell)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:19:03 -0600
Subject: daily python URL needs to have archives.
References: <pan.2003.06.16.18.09.02.409056@asd.com> <3eee0e50$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com> <mailman.1055972270.19305.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ef1e278$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> footnote: the daily URL and the weekly URL posting are two
> different things.

Whoops, guess I should have followed the link instead of guessing that I
already knew what it was.

Thanks for the correction.

--
Daniel Fackrell (newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com)
When we attempt the impossible, we can experience true growth.





From lale at fotonation.com  Tue Jun  3 09:33:19 2003
From: lale at fotonation.com (Ilariu Raducan)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 14:33:19 +0100
Subject: Pythonwin toolbar dynamic buttons combobox
Message-ID: <Cs1Da.16505$pK2.22636@news.indigo.ie>

Hi All,

In "Programming Windows with MFC, Second Edition" Chapter 12, Toolbars 
is described a method to add a ComboBox to a toolbar.

Did anybody tried that in Pythonwin?

How do I create buttons dynamic, at runtime?
What about ComboBox?

Thank you,

Lale




From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Jun 16 22:25:53 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:25:53 -0400
Subject: Possible install bug in Python 2.3b1? (Python 2.2 still in the
 registry)
In-Reply-To: <5ab0af73.0306161803.609b1682@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEHJEKAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

>> Why is this surprising?  For example, installing 2.3b1 does not
>> uninstall 2.2.  Did you uninstall 2.2?

[Matt Shomphe]
> Yes, I uninstalled Python version 2.2.2 (the only instance on my
> machine).

How was it installed (e.g., PythonLabs installer, ActiveState installer,
something else)?

> I found this behavior surprising because going from 2.2 to
> 2.2.2 caused no such behavior -- probably since it's located in the
> same directory (Python22\).  I guess I shouldn't have found this
> surprising given that 2.3b1 installs into the folder Python23\.

...

>> Whether one or more of those should have gotten overwritten depends
>> on things you haven't told us, such as whether you clicked on the
>> Advanced options button when installing, and, if so, whether you did
>> an Admin or Non-Admin install, and whether you chose to associate
>> file extensions or not.

> (1) I did not click on the Advanced Options button when installing,
> (2) I was logged in with admin priviliges on my machine, and
> (3) I did not choose to associate file extensions.

File extensions get associated by default; that's something you would have
had to go out of your way to stop.

>>> This does not seem to affect the behavior of the latest install.  (I
>>> noticed the error only when I tried to install eGenix.com's mx
>>> extensions.  It requires Python 2.2 and I noticed a garbage entry
>>> when it was about to install.)

>> Sorry, don't know what that means.

> Sorry, I should have been clearer.  When trying to install the mx
> extensions from the windows executable
> (http://www.egenix.com/files/python/eGenix-mx-Extensions.html#Downlo
> ad-mxBASE, and scroll to the "Windows" section), a distutils GUI popped
> up.  The installer was (I assume)looking for Python v2.2 in the registry
> and found some errant entries. When the installer window popped up
> indicating where the path to python was and where the files would be
> installed, there was, instead of "C:\Python22\....", some non-ASCII
> characters in its place.

Know where they came from?  That is, where they are in the registry?  Nobody
else has reported anything like this (AFAIK), so I'm afraid you're going to
have to dig into it, and more than you'd like <wink>.

> This was not the problem, just an indication that there may be a
> problem.  (mx doesn't have a version for 2.3 yet, and I can wait).
>
> The larger problem seems to be that the Python23\ path is not in my
> Windows %PATH%.

The PythonLabs installers never alter your PATH -- never did, don't, and
never will.  If you want Python23 in your PATH, you have to put it there
yourself.  Don't know about other installers.

> As I indicated previously, there is no problem *running* Python.  This
> just seems to indicate that the uninstall of the old version & install
> of the new version may not be clean.

Maybe so.  I can't reproduce any problems uninstalling 2.2.2 or installing
2.3b1 here, so it's hard to discern a pattern.

> I hope this clears things up.

Not a bit, but it was a good try <wink>.

> Please let me know if you need additional information.

By default I'm going to forget this, just because I don't have a problem
here I can reproduce, nor one that has been reported by others.  You may
wish to record your observations in a bug report on SourceForge, hoping that
someone else will hit the same kind of problem and add their clues.





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun 26 09:39:18 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:39:18 -0400
Subject: Test-Driven Dev. (Kent Beck) Python Chapter Question
References: <6e07b825.0306252246.16fa828@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EFAF786.76B66629@engcorp.com>

"yaipa h." wrote:
> 
> In Chapter 20. Cleaning Up After
> 
> When adding "tearDown()" to "TestCase" in xUnit, the TestCase method run()
> suddenly takes on a new argument named "result."  In the next line result
> is used as "result.testStarted()."  Oddly, when TestCase.run() is called by
> "TestCaseTest" it is called without an argument, so of course Python complains.
> If I drop "result" from the argument list and strike the line
> "result.testStarted()" everything works fine. I've looked and
> there seems to be no code download page or errata available.
> 
> Anyone had similar problems with this chapter or am I reading over
> something here?

I think you're right.  I looked ahead at page 114 and found what I
think is the first place where run() actually takes a TestResult
object, in a later chapter.  

It looks like this was an early mistake, as it appears even in the first
draft of the book which had this chapter, from March 9 last year.
(See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/files/ for ref.)

Yaipa, if you submit this errata report on the testdrivendevelopment
group on Yahoo Groups it would probably be appreciated.

-Peter



From davidw at dedasys.com  Sun Jun 29 06:37:39 2003
From: davidw at dedasys.com (David N. Welton)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:37:39 GMT
Subject: Fast CGI Vs Java Application Servers
References: <kAxLa.592$_I3.34571@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3efeb1fc.573830905@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <874r29rwvu.fsf@dedasys.com>

alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld) writes:

> > Is there a business case for switching from CGI to Java?

As someone said, "java is great for engineering next generation
solutions to enable maximization of developer income by means of
enhanced buzzword use".

> > Features?

> Maybe, Java's built in networking/security features are a big plus,
> maybe the biggest plus.

For most of the other answers, Tcl scores about where Perl and Python
do, give or take some here and there.  Here, it is worth mentioning
that Tcl has a very nice security architecture of its own, that you
can control from Tcl itself quite easily.

> > Object orientation?

> Nope, you can do that in Perl and certainly in Python (or Ruby).

Or Tcl with an extension like [Incr Tcl].

> Bottom line is: Does what you do now work for you? If so, don't fix
> what's not broken...

Excellent suggestion.

-- 
David N. Welton
   Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/
     Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/
Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/
   Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/



From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Jun  4 00:54:27 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:54:27 +1000
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
In-Reply-To: <rMX3+kKkXIyZ092yn@gnosis.cx>
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com> <PNdDa.824522$OV.780836@rwcrnsc54> <bbjpt9$p0q$1@panix3.panix.com> <1ieDa.35049$DV.60225@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rMX3+kKkXIyZ092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <20030604045427.GB14866@frobozz>

On Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 12:18:51AM -0400, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:
> 
> The idea here is that it is possible to achieve something akin to what
> metaclasses do.  I don't think staticmethod() or classmethod() could
> themselves be written in pure Python rather than as C extensions (well,
> maybe).  But you could also write your own function, and use it in a
> metaclass-like way, e.g.:

They certainly can be written in pure Python!

You simply need to use descriptors; I wrote a pure Python staticmethod as
part of a talk I gave to my local PIG a few months ago about new features in
Python 2.2:

    http://pig.slug.org.au/talks/py2.2/slides.html

(Apologies for magicpoint's horrendous HTML conversion)

A more recent, and considerably more in-depth, discussion of descriptors was
recently posted to the announce list by Raymond Hettinger:

    http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm

-Andrew.
 




From gregbrunet at NOSPAMsempersoft.com  Mon Jun 30 22:22:05 2003
From: gregbrunet at NOSPAMsempersoft.com (Greg Brunet)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:22:05 -0500
Subject: Howto: extract a 'column' from a list of lists into a new list?
References: <vg1mbarhe86d2d@corp.supernews.com> <bdqp9e$7r$1@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <vg1s2jp8q8t00a@corp.supernews.com>

"Egor Bolonev" <ebolonev at rol.ru> wrote in message
news:bdqp9e$7r$1 at news.rol.ru...

> =============================================
> a=[('STOCKNO', 'C', 8, 0), ('DACC', 'C', 5, 0), ('DEALERACCE', 'C',
30,
> 0), ('D-ACCRTL', 'C', 9, 0), ('D-ACCCST', 'C', 9, 0)]
>
> b=[x[0] for x in a]         # :-) Python is cool!
>
> print b
> =============================================
>
> As I know the map/lamda/list works very slow and you should use it
'only'
> with SCRIPTS.

Thanks Egor!

It looks like I was closer than I thought - but still would have been
unlikely to figure it out!

-- 
Greg




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Jun 26 15:24:06 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:24:06 +0200
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com> <bct498$mnjrt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <8da5fvsnidpjtblgfj4484spso2t9e6r95@4ax.com> <bcuqp3$nl9um$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <rt97fv80g2dguti1okoevk3kmvo6oh14vt@4ax.com> <bd17hu$niu1d$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <u7lcfv85lvutqg8tspgua4qc0454gsd2ie@4ax.com> <bd8gsc$pt2lr$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <hi5jfvof9sd32b55c8smgibpufhj0akcdo@4ax.com> <bdchsu$rn1p1$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bdfhpg$dcl$1@news.hccnet.nl>

"Cousin Stanley" <CousinStanley at hotmail.com> wrote:
>| Thank you for such excellent programming.
>
>You're welcome ....
>
>Thanks also to ....
>
>    Erik Max Francis for suggesting
>    the lambda sort for Mixed-Case sorting ....
>
>    Kim Petersen for suggesting usage of ....
>
>        dict_words.has_key[ this_word ] instead of
>
>        this_word in dict_words.keys()
>
>    which made an incredible difference in processing time ....

I've been playing a little with the script and managed to double the
speed by using a trick that was posted here some time ago by someone
called "Lulu". The trick was originally from someone else but I lost
the attribution somewhere. This bumps Erik's idea from the list I'm
afraid ..., because it translates all letters into lowercase and
translates the rest into spaces. This speeds up sorting and splitting.

Probably it's possible to shave off a few percents more, but I think
doubling speed once again will cost four times more programmer effort
or maybe twice as much money for computer equipment.

It's all in the script below, I hope I didn't introduce any new
errors. By the way, I don't like an empty line for every other line,
as in your script, and using "\n" is easier than what you did. Other
than that, nice job!

Anton


import sys
import time

time_in = time.time()
module_name = sys.argv[ 0 ]
print '\n    %s '  % (module_name )
#to get the file below:
#http://sailor.gutenberg.org/etext97/1donq10.zip
path_in    = '1donq10.txt'
path_out   = 'words.out'
file_in    = file( path_in   , 'r' )
file_out   = file( path_out  , 'w' )
word_total = 0
dict_words = {}
#start lulu magic
i_r = map(chr, range(256))
trans = [' '] * 256
o_a, o_z = ord('a'), (ord('z')+1)
trans[ord('A'):(ord('Z')+1)] = i_r[o_a:o_z]
trans[o_a:o_z] = i_r[o_a:o_z]
trans = ''.join(trans)
#end lulu magic
print
print '        Indexing Words ....\n ' ,
for iLine in file_in : 
    if (word_total+1) % 10000  ==  0 :
            sys.stdout.write('.')
    #use lulu magic in the line below here:
    list_words = iLine.translate(trans).split()
    for this_word in list_words : 
        if not dict_words.has_key(this_word) :
            dict_words[this_word] = 1
        else : 
            dict_words[this_word] += 1
        word_total += 1
list_words = dict_words.keys()
#lulu magic turned all words into lowercase, so standard sort is
#possible:
list_words.sort()
print '\n\n        Writing Output File ....' ,
for this_word in list_words : 
    word_count = dict_words[this_word]
    str_out    = '%6d %s\n' % (word_count ,this_word)
    file_out.write(str_out)
word_str   = '\n     Total  Words .... %d\n' % (word_total)
keys_total = len(dict_words.keys())
keys_str   = '\n     Unique Words .... %d\n' % (keys_total)
file_out.write(word_str)
file_out.write(keys_str)
print '\n        Complete .................\n' 
print '            Total  Words ....' , word_total
print 
print '            Unique Words ....' , keys_total
file_in.close()
file_out.close()
time_out  = time.time()
time_diff = time_out - time_in
print '\n        Process Time ........ %-6.2f Seconds' % (time_diff)



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Jun 27 13:16:43 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 13:16:43 -0400
Subject: pymacs problem on load
In-Reply-To: <slrnbfojbr.td.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
References: <slrnbfojbr.td.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
Message-ID: <oqadc3sao4.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Alexandre Fayolle]

> I have pymacs 0.21 installed, and on init, I get an emacs error. The
> *Backtrace* buffer says:

> Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "Pymacs Lisp version is @VERSION@,
> Python is 0.21.")

Hi, Alexandre.

It looks like if the `pymacs.el' part was not installed through the `setup'
script.  This script should substitute `@VERSION@' by the real thing.  See
the beginning of the `README' file for installation instructions.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Sun Jun 29 05:37:55 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 09:37:55 GMT
Subject: Fast CGI Vs Java Application Servers
References: <kAxLa.592$_I3.34571@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3efeb1fc.573830905@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 17:01:07 +0800, Charles Handy
<chppxf1 at NOSPAM_yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> How does FastCGI compare against java Apps running in java app servers 
> like TomCat, Sun One, WebLogic and WebSphere?  

That depends on how your CGI apps are written. If its in QBASIC
running on apache on an NT box then probably the websphere
solution would be faster. If its Perl or Python then you might
not see much difference. If its C/C++ you might even find the CGI
route faster.

> Is there a business case for switching from CGI to Java?  

You can make a business case for just about anything if you
try...

> Performance? 

See above

> Productivity? 

Perl/Python CGI will almoist certainy develop faster than Java.
C++ is about the same IME

> Features?  

Maybe, Java's built in networking/security features are a big
plus, maybe the biggest plus.

> Object orientation? 

Nope, you can do that in Perl and certainly in Python (or Ruby).

> Code Reuse?

Nope, that's much more about project organisation than
programming language.

> Any opinions?

Lots but I'm trying to stay objective! :-)

Bottom line is: Does what you do now work for you? If so, don't
fix what's not broken...

Alan G.



From gvwilson at cs.utoronto.ca  Fri Jun 27 10:50:49 2003
From: gvwilson at cs.utoronto.ca (Greg Wilson)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:50:49 -0400
Subject: manipulating PowerPoint with Python?
Message-ID: <5SYKa.713$Gf3.2535@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>

Hi.  Has anyone ever written scripts to extract data from PowerPoint using
Python?  I know I could dredge through the VB examples in MSDN, and
translate, but if someone's already done this, I'd be grateful for a few
examples.  (I have slides done in PPT that I want to convert to simple
HTML --- using "Save as HTML" in PPT creates a lot more goo than I want to
have to wade through.)

Thanks,
Greg





From bitbucket at safe-mail.net  Tue Jun 10 14:27:02 2003
From: bitbucket at safe-mail.net (poiboy)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 11:27:02 -0700
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
Message-ID: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com>

..or "Empathy and Envy on the Road to Enlightenment."
                                                                                  
I'm a doit-yer-selfer counting signposts on my path to PyNirvana,
and I'm wondering what epiphanies the better traveled have
experienced along their own.
                                                                                  
Those that have marked my progress are:
                                                                                  
1) Bookmarking the Language Reference Index and realizing that "for
   language lawyers" applied to *me* (my links for "Extending and
   Embedding" and "Python/C API" are still blue).
                                                                                  
2) Relying on unittest.
                                                                                  
3) Discovering filter() and map().
                                                                                  
4) Fortifying classes with __setattr__() and friends.
                                                                                  
4.5) Leaving if:, elif:, and else: on their own lines for fear of
     scorn or deprecation.
                                                                                  
Aloha, the poiboy



From alan_salmoni at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 30 07:16:56 2003
From: alan_salmoni at yahoo.com (Alan James Salmoni)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 04:16:56 -0700
Subject: EuroPython Photos
References: <ae115$3eff38a9$516049d2$9434@nf1.news-service.com>
Message-ID: <b68f71a7.0306300316.305eeb8b@posting.google.com>

Awww, not one photo of me, and I was talking too... Think I'll wear a
dress next time! ;)

Hope you enjoyed the conference!

Alan.

Duncan Grisby <duncan-news at grisby.org> wrote in message news:<ae115$3eff38a9$516049d2$9434 at nf1.news-service.com>...
> The European Python Conference was held last week. I took quite a lot
> of photos, which I've put on my web site here:
> 
>   http://www.grisby.org/Photos/140/
> 
> I've tried to label them to say who they are pictures of, but there
> are lots of people I don't know. If you know the names of anyone I
> haven't labelled, please let me know.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Duncan.



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jun  6 07:08:46 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:08:46 +0100
Subject: try..yield..finally problem: a proposed solution.
References: <3EDF1FCD.2D107B0@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054811050.10100.python-list@python.org> <3EDF4D53.9010B122@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054822758.13375.python-list@python.org> <1cbe61a5.0306060230.5160baf8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE0763E.2BD78FBC@hotmail.com>

Michael Sparks wrote:

> Taking your suggestion, you get a cleaned up version which is
> pretty elegant:
> 
> def finfunc():
>     try:
>         try:
>             # Risky code, e.g.
>             for i in xrange(10):
>                 t=i/random.randint(0,10)
>                 yield "data",i
>             raise Finality
>         except:
>             print "Finally"
>             raise
>     except Finality:
>         pass
> 
> for v in finfunc():
>     print v

[ Stuff elided ]

> But you [sometimes] get a 'exceptions must not be of 'NoneType' error.

Indeed, I discovered this during my prototyping, which is why I had the
structure that I did.

> If you use the original (form 3 for convenience):
> # Form 3
>     try:
>         yield
>     except Exception,x:
>         yield
>         raise x

But this isn't the original form, since there is no "finally" processing in it,
i.e. the second yield is only reached if there is an exception...

Adding in "finally" processing, this form is

    try:
        yield
        raise Finality
    except Exception, x:
        yield
        raise x

which does not clear or in any way "lose" the exception in the following code,
under Python 2.3a2. 

#------------------------------------------------------------------

import random

class Finality(Exception): pass

def finfunc():
    try:
        try:
            # Risky code, e.g.
            for i in range(10):
                x = 1/int(random.random()*10)
                yield x
            print "Successful processing"
            raise Finality
        except Exception, x:
            print "Finally"
            yield 42
            raise x
    except Finality:
        print "Finality discarded"
    except Exception, x:
        print "Told you that code was risky, didn't I?: %s" % str(x)

for v in finfunc():
    print v

#------------------------------------------------------------------

Incidentally, if you want to see the "exceptions cannot be Nonetype" exception
that Michael describes, then change the above definition of finfunc to remove
the explicit declaration of Exception, x: like so 

def finfunc():
    try:
        try:
            # Risky code, e.g.
            for i in range(10):
                x = 1/int(random.random()*10)
                yield x
            print "Successful processing"
            raise Finality
        except:             # <- this is different 
            print "Finally"
            yield 42
            raise           # <- and so is this
    except Finality:
        print "Finality discarded"
    except Exception, x:
        print "Told you that code was risky, didn't I?: %s" % str(x)

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From scott.daniels at acm.org  Tue Jun  3 23:01:46 2003
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 20:01:46 -0700
Subject: Exception - how to ignore it ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054672060.4885.python-list@python.org>
References: <bbhjdr$ave$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE> <mailman.1054672060.4885.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3edd6118$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Helmut Jarausch:
 >is it possible for an exception handler
 >to just e.g. print something and set some
 >global flags but then to have the script
 >continue just after the statement which
 >raised the exception?

I'd chime in on the "avoid the temptation" chorus, but they seem
in full voice.

Xerox Labs (PARC) had an implementation language name Mesa with
an exception system that allowed you to fiddle things and return
as well as ever return fro mthe exception.  So many bugs
were associated with that feature that they had a style
note that said, basically, "don't do that."  After a few years
of the style note, they looked through the codebase and found
(I am hazy here) either a small number of uses left, or a small
number of uses not easily rewritten.  At least a quarter of those
remaing beasties had bugs in them.  So, they rewrote them all and
pulled the language feature.

This is all by way of saying, "you aint gonna need it."

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org




From ffiorese at franco.homelinux.org  Mon Jun  9 16:08:45 2003
From: ffiorese at franco.homelinux.org (Franco Fiorese)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 20:08:45 GMT
Subject: Where is bobo?
Message-ID: <hP5Fa.109203$g92.2532246@news2.tin.it>

Hi all,
do you know where is possible to find the latest original package of 
bobo (Python ORB)?
The link (http://www.digicool.com/releases/bobo/) referenced by several 
pages on the web is broken...

Thanks
Franco Fiorese




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Thu Jun  5 12:10:38 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:10:38 -0400
Subject: Python IO performance?
References: <m33civ37b2.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <bbad44$2nv$1@panix1.panix.com> <bbln0q$2vl$0@216.39.172.122> <20030605113023.N15841@bullseye.apana.org.au> <mailman.1054820650.32406.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vduqroicpk0gf1@news.supernews.com>

"Jeff Epler" <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1054820650.32406.python-list at python.org...
> On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 12:10:47PM +1000, Andrew MacIntyre wrote:
> > On Thu, 4 Jun 2003, Bengt Richter wrote:
> >
> > > >* Perl uses OS-specific FILE* hacks for speed; Python mostly
sticks with
> > > >simple, portable calls.
> > > IMO if the latter does not result in max disk thoughput for simple
IO, there is
> > > room for improvement in the OS event/scheduling/dispatching and/or
the interface(s) to it.
> > > Not that that helps Python per se ;-/
> >
> > It is a not uncommon misconception that OS library routines are
highly
> > optimised for performance.  OS suppliers, particularly those
supporting
> > multiple archictectures, frequently prefer portability over
performance.
> > Even within an architecture, say i386, maximising performance
requires
> > CPU specific tricks, and in a binary distribution some reasonable
> > compromise must be reached to perform satisfactorily across a range
of
> > hardware.
> >
> > So application developers who depend on maximising some aspect of
system
> > performance need to take matters into their own hands, as Perl does.
>
> .. another reason is that the OS I/O library must perform correctly
> under the range of circumstances described by whatever standard they
> conform to (eg POSIX, SuS, win32) under various circumstances
> (multithreading, binary-level structure compatibility),
> but the program-specific I/O library generally has fewer such
> requirements.

True, but since Python (and Perl) are more and more general-purpose
languages, their users expect that level of compliance unless specified
otherwise.

In any case, the basic issue here is that if it's really a major issue,
submit a PEP. Python already has operating system dependent
sections for file manipulations, for example. It's basically a matter of
convincing the BDFL and the core developers that having
operating system and architecture dependent file I/O routines
is beneficial. And that 's something that the core developers (a
notoriously overworked bunch of people that have my highest
admiration) need to make a decision on.

John Roth
>
> Jeff
>





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun 11 21:01:13 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:01:13 -0600
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0306110926.27c4412b@posting.google.com>; from mis6@pitt.edu on Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 10:26:36AM -0700
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <2259b0e2.0306110926.27c4412b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030611190113.A2716@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Michele Simionato:
  [...]
> IMHO, there is only one reasonable way of defining a "decorator": it
> should be defined as a descriptor class, that takes a function and returns 
> a descriptor object. classmethods and staticmethods work this way and 
> "protected" should be the same. Now, if 'protected' is such a decorator, 
> it would only accepts *functions* as input, not classmethod objects.

Functions are descriptors too, though (since they have __get__ for
the unbound/bound method machinery).  What if we thought of these
things as descriptor decorators instead of function decorators?
Then transitivity is no problem.  (Of course, they'd expect that
the descriptor they wrap would have a __get__ which provides a
callable.)

    def pre(prefunc):
        class prewrapper(object):
            def __init__(self, descriptor):
                self.descriptor = descriptor
            def __get__(self, obj, type_=None):
                func = self.descriptor.__get__(obj, type_)    # <--
                def prewrapped(*args, **kwargs):
                    prefunc(*args, **kwargs)
                    return func(*args, **kwargs)
                prewrapped.__doc__ = func.__doc__
                return prewrapped
        return prewrapper

For the specific intended use, it wouldn't matter that other
callables (types, instances of classes with __call__ ...) are not
necessarily also descriptors.

(The implementation above does have the wart that the prefunc
doesn't see the self argument.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                           staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I'm always serious, never more so than when I'm being flippant."
                            -- _Look to Windward_, Iain M. Banks




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jun 21 18:13:05 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 18:13:05 -0400
Subject: WTF is Fibonnacci
References: <7inIa.55233$Io.5225846@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
	 <I1oIa.9952$5d.738838@news20.bellglobal.com>
	 <G22Ja.570$HI.61785282@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	 <3EF4BC88.1AE3696F@engcorp.com> <20030621225113.AD51.KLAPOTEC@nusurf.at>
Message-ID: <3EF4D871.3336B188@engcorp.com>

Christopher Koppler wrote:
> 
> I know I passed that when I was in the first grade of elementary school
> (an uncle of mine showed it to me). That, of course, proves nothing.

Well, it proves you are bright, but nothing whatsoever about the 
claim in question.

> BTW, that series seems to *always* quite quickly converge on a stable
> number or pair of numbers, whatever the starting value... anyone have a
> proof? Or a name for the series, for that matter?

http://rec-puzzles.org/sol.pl/series/07 and other pages found via Google,
with a cursory skim, seem to indicate that, though I didn't look for a
formal proof.

-Peter



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sun Jun 22 10:39:24 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:39:24 GMT
Subject: subclassing Thread and start
References: <uk86fv060t84jqno0mniak1ol6s3nn415c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <wcjJa.306559$3n5.168253@news2.central.cox.net>

Note that the threading module is the one you should use for threads in your
program, the thread module is rather lower-level and therefore rather more
error prone.

Your MyThread class could look like this"

    class MyThread(threading.Thread):
        def start(self):
            threading.Thread.start(self)
            self.id = id(self)
            return self.id

If you *must* use the thread module, remember that although the
documentation says that you shouldn't *override* start(), that doesn't mean
you can't *extend* it. So, similar to the example aboce, you should make
sure that your thread's start_new_thread() method calls the base class'
start_net_thread() before running any of its own code.

As a general rule, you should try not to assume any knowedge of the insides
of the class you are using. Hope this helps.

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/


"Gon?alo Rodrigues" <op73418 at mail.telepac.pt> wrote in message
news:uk86fv060t84jqno0mniak1ol6s3nn415c at 4ax.com...
> I have the following problem:
>
> In order to simplify managing Thread's, I want my (derived) Thread's
> to do two things when they start running: return their thread id to
> the thread that started them, and set an attribute, e.g. self.id, to
> the Thread id.
>
> Looking at the threading module code, this involves adding the
> following simple things:
>
> 1. Add the following to the start method:
>
> id = thread.start_new_thread(self.__bootstrap, ())
> return id
>
> 2. Add the following to the __bootstrap private method:
>
> self.id = thread.get_ident()
>
> But in the docs, it says explicitely that when subclassing I should
> not override start, so what do you suggest? If I go ahead and override
> it, to what should I be on the lookout? Any other ideas on
> accomplishing what I need *not involving* overriding the start method?
>
> Hoping to have made myself understood, TIA, with my best regards,
> G. Rodrigues
>
> P.S: Up to now I have used the threading module patched with the above
> -- a solution i *do not like* for obvious reasons.





From nosp at m.needed  Thu Jun 19 09:35:36 2003
From: nosp at m.needed (Steve McAllister)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:35:36 +0200
Subject: (newbie)list conversion problem
In-Reply-To: <bcsc56$9k0$1@sunce.iskon.hr>
References: <bcsc56$9k0$1@sunce.iskon.hr>
Message-ID: <bcseaa$me6$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr>

> I want this list: ['7659', '33', '454', '445'] to change in something
> like this: [7659, 33, 454, 445].

map(int, ['7659', '33', '454', '445'])

> for elements in x:
>   group = []
>   group.append(int(elements))
> 
> and I got gibberish

You certainly wanted to:

group = []         # Once!
for el in x:
     group.append(int(el))




From nas-usenet at arctrix.com  Wed Jun 18 10:00:57 2003
From: nas-usenet at arctrix.com (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:00:57 GMT
Subject: How to recognize a generator function?
References: <mailman.1055928392.30750.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tg_Ha.225$Cd1.209@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>

Oscar Rambla <tecnic at codidoc.com> wrote:
> I'm not been able to find a solution to the following:
> 
> How to recognize if a function is a generator function before calling it?
> (Alternatives to having to inspect code for a yield or wrapping it into a 
> class).

There is no way to do that.  Think about:

    def g():
        yield 1

    def f():
        return g()

also think about:

    def f():
        return iter([1])

There are lots of ways to return iterators in Python.
Generator-iterators are first class objects and be passed around.
What are you really trying to do?

  Neil



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sat Jun  7 09:03:49 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:03:49 +0100
Subject: finding origin of names
References: <gozptIAYyc4+EwH6@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <mailman.1054987218.24496.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Y64HZKA1Ke4+Ewhj@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1054987218.24496.python-list at python.org>, Andreas
Jung <lists at andreas-jung.com> writes
>What is the usecase for this? It looks to me that you should verify your
>data-model...I have never been in a situation during my 10 year Python 
>experience
>where I have to check this.
>
>-aj
>
>--On Samstag, 7. Juni 2003 12:29 Uhr +0100 Robin Becker 
><robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
..... we have a semi-automatic drawing editor for naive users. They can
set properties to red/blue etc and the editor attempts to find a
suitable origin for the object (ie a Color instance defined in some
module). Our current approach  doesn't care if the module defines these
or imports them, but it would make sense for us to use the 'original
source'.
-- 
Robin Becker



From imbaczek at poczta.onet.pl  Sat Jun  7 17:19:05 2003
From: imbaczek at poczta.onet.pl (=?ISO-8859-2?B?TWFyZWsgIkJhY3playIgQmFjennxc2tp?=)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 23:19:05 +0200
Subject: zip broken?
Message-ID: <586599923.20030607231905@poczta.onet.pl>

Hello Pythonistas,

I found a behaviour of zip() which I don't like -- it hangs on
infinite generators. Consider this code:

#v+
def my_zip(*args):
    while 1:
        yield tuple([l.next() for l in args])

def check_if_blocks(vy, g, h, hmin, hmax):
# this won't ever stop            vvv
#    for t, (y1, y2) in enumerate(zip(hmin, hmax)):
    for t, (y1, y2) in enumerate(my_zip(hmin, hmax)):
        t += 1
        y = -g*t*t/2 + vy*t + h
        if y1 >= y or y >= y2:
            return (t,y)
        print "%d: %d < %d < %d"%(t, y1, y, y2)
    return (t,y)

def numbers(x):
    while 1:
        yield x

def main():
    check_if_blocks(10, 1, 5, numbers(5), numbers(60))

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()
#v-

-- 
{ Marek Baczy?ski :: UIN 57114871 :: GG 161671 :: JID imbaczek at jabber.gda.pl  }
{ http://www.vlo.ids.gda.pl/ | imbaczek at poczta fm | http://www.promode.org }
.. .. .. .. ... ... ...... evolve or face extinction ...... ... ... .. .. .. ..





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun 18 20:52:07 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:52:07 -0600
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <HGot1G.Etn@arl.mil>; from bcorfman@amsaa.army.mil on Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 05:11:25PM +0000
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3EEDEDBE.BCB56D6E@engcorp.com> <HGMnCw.5tM@arl.mil> <mailman.1055866100.14949.python-list@python.org> <HGot1G.Etn@arl.mil>
Message-ID: <20030618185207.B192@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Brandon Corfman:
  [...]
> I'm not sure that I would write the best FAQ on the subject: although I 
> could write up the Python community consensus, I don't agree with it 
> fully because I think the advocates of static typing make good points. I 
> think optional static typing has clear benefits for safety in light of 
> the alternatives.

I don't think a FAQ entry would have to take the strong view that
dynamic typing is the only way to go.  Certainly that's not the
consensus.  (There's lots of Haskell fans here, for example.)  It
would be all to the good for the FAQ to discuss the language
design trade-offs.

However, I suspect that the question that's actually frequently
asked is something like:

    "I'm used to C/C++/Java, and I rely on the compiler using the
    variable declarations to tell me when I've made a type error or
    mistyped a name.  How can I avoid these kinds of bugs in Python?"

This is not a deep question about language design; it is, as you
aptly observed, a question about development practices.  I think
it would be nearly enough for a FAQ entry to say that Python
programmers mostly rely on automated test suites to detect these
kinds of bugs (and many others besides), to give some description
of the development process that entails (with mention of TDD as
the extreme case), and then to direct the reader to, say, that
article of Bruce Eckel's for some anecdotal evidence.

> I don't see what there is to fear in this regard either. Lisp/Dylan have 
> done optional typing and range checking, and it improves safety as well 
> as performance -- without changing the character of the languages or how 
> they're used. I don't see why Python would be any different.

Sounds fine to me.  Want to write the patch?  :)

  [...]
> > (I don't think "functional programming" means what you think it
> > means.  Functional programming is programming without
> > side-effects.)
>
> Actually, yes, this is what I mean. [...]

My mistake.

> [...] The multiple variable assignment and 
> multiple return values in Python allows for programming without 
> side-effects. [...]

But assignment is the quintessential side-effecty operation, nyet?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
Every public frenzy produces legislation purporting to address it.
                                                  (Kinsley's Law)




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jun 17 13:44:50 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:44:50 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <pqecneVWGfBLIHCjXTWJgA@comcast.com> <y8HHa.103114$pR3.2238174@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <QVqdnYTrfqgOznKjXTWJig@comcast.com>

"Alex Martelli" <aleax at aleax.it> wrote in message
news:y8HHa.103114$pR3.2238174 at news1.tin.it...
> Terry Reedy wrote:
>    ...
> >> E.g., indexing blah[bloh] with an
> >> invalid index value computed in variable bloh (invalid with
respect
> >> to the set of indices that container blah can accept) is, alas,
far
> >> from rare; but it's not a type-checking issue,
> >
> > Depends on what you call a type.  A 'count' or a 'residue_class'
is as
> > much a mathematical 'type' as an 'int' (or a 'rat').
>
> A 'type' that is checkable at compile-time is (at the very least)
> a set whose membership needs to be fixed and known at compile-time.
> (There may be other requirements, but this one is crucial;-).

I agree completely.

> "The set of acceptable keys/indices into 'blah' at this moment
> (which depends on how big 'blah' is right now, etc etc)" is not
> ``a type'' in this sense.  So, if 'blah' is a std::vector<...>
> in C++, a Vector in Java, a Python list, or basically any sort of
> usable array/vector whose capacity can be determined at runtime,
> then compile-time type checking just cannot substitute for runtime
> checking of indices.

Right.  While my statement about counts and residue classes is
correct, it is not as applicable to indexes of variable-length
whatevers as the juxtaposition implied.

My point about counts is that if we are going to type things (as the
OP advocated, perhaps like C/C++ do), then len(whatever) is better
typed as returning a count rather than an int.  At least I would claim
so if the language has exceptions and doesn't 'count' on being able to
return impossible negative lengths as error indicators.  If, as in
C/C++, negative indexes are not allowed, then indexes are also better
typed as counts rather than ints.  But checking upper bounds is more
complicated, even for fixed length arrays.

Terry J. Reedy





From listbox at cybereal.org  Sun Jun 15 18:06:14 2003
From: listbox at cybereal.org (Zac Jensen)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:06:14 -0600
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <oX5Ha.116651$3Sm.35400@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>
 <3eece571$0$49110$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
 <oX5Ha.116651$3Sm.35400@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200306151606.17429.listbox@cybereal.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sunday 15 June 2003 03:55 pm, martin z wrote:
> > You *can* test the types of the arguments yourself, inside
> > the function. But this is regarded bad practice amongst Python
> > programmers, for the above mentioned reasons.
>
> On this subject, is there a way to test not the specific type, or simply
> the protocol an object supports?  String, int, etc.  I want to make a
> function do one thing with a numeric-type object and a different thing with
> a string-type object.

Hm, perhaps hasattr() for the special __whatever__ attributes?

or if you know it has to be a set of types, you could do 
isinstance(whatevervar, (type1, type2, type3)) etc....

- -Zac
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From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Jun 10 16:16:15 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:16:15 -0500
Subject: Break line across lines (not in '[]' or '{}')?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330509BA71@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Robert Oschler [mailto:no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 3:19 PM
> 
> I have a Class with a lot of fields in the __slots__ 
> attribute.  Is there a way to break the line across multiple lines?
> 
> Class HasSlots():
>     __slots__ = 'one', 'two', 'three'
>     ...
> 
> I'd like to do:
> 
> Class HasSlots():
>     __slots__ = 'one', 'two', 'three'
>     ...
>

Must be my new glasses, I can't see a difference...

-gca
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk  Wed Jun 18 09:05:55 2003
From: neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk (Neil Padgen)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:05:55 +0000
Subject: Documentation Tool & UML
References: <a35b36be.0306120912.40bf916f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bcpo3j$9iv$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>

On Thursday 12 June 2003 5:12 pm, Phoenix at Hell wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> short question.
> What is the best tool to build a API reference for a python program
> ? And is there a tool available that can generate python code from
> an UML ?

Umbrello (uml.sourceforge.net) is a UML tool for KDE which produces
output in various languages.  It's quite easy to write a plugin for
Python (although I stupidly managed to delete my plugin source code
shortly after writing it).  I'm told that Umbrello 1.2, which will be
in KDE 3.2, comes with a Python plugin.

-- Neil




From ken at hotmail.com  Sun Jun  8 06:04:19 2003
From: ken at hotmail.com (Ken)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 20:04:19 +1000
Subject: Excuting scripts question
References: <bbtq4o$d718f$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE26F88.C86E88BB@alcyone.com> <bbu0bo$df2cq$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <3EE28A13.65FD29DD@engcorp.com> <bbu7gc$ddp76$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de> <c2c98495.0306080116.40ae59fa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbv1n8$dljr4$1@ID-49758.news.dfncis.de>

"dique" <chezdique at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c2c98495.0306080116.40ae59fa at posting.google.com...
> Here is a helpful link on Setting up Python for CGI on IIS.
> http://www.e-coli.net/pyiis.html
>
> From the article, it seems that you should put C:\Python22\python.exe
> -u %s %s instead. (Perhaps C:\Python22\python.exe -u "%s" "%s" is
> safer, with the quotes on.)
>

I followed it and it loaded. But instead of executing the script, it is
displaying as a text. Any ideas how to fix it?

Thanks
>
>
> "Ken" <ken at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<bbu7gc$ddp76$1 at ID-49758.news.dfncis.de>...
> > "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> > news:3EE28A13.65FD29DD at engcorp.com...
> > > Ken wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > Hi, I have a few scripts that ran well in Unix environment with:
> > > > > > #!/usr/local/bin/python
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What do I need to change to if I relocate these scripts on a
Windows
> > > > > > environment? I have installed Python 2.2.3 in C:\Python22
directory.
> > > > >
> > > > Hi, I tried to run the script on IE (eg:
http://192.168.0.2/test1.cgi)
> >  but
> > > > it doesn't seem to load. (The script seems to load forever... but
> >  ordinary
> > > > html files work)
> > >
> > > And 192.168.0.2 is your own machine?
> > Yes
> >
> >  Do you have a web server
> > > running on it?
> > I installed IIS. (I am running Windows 2000 Pro)
> > I went into Control Panel/Admin Tools/Internet Information
Services/Default
> > Web Site and go into properties. In the "Home Directory" tab, I went
into
> > "Configuration". Clicked "Add", put in the path of python.exe executable
> > (C:\Python22\python.exe), extension "cgi" and pressed ok. Is this the
right
> > way to do it? I am planning to run this Win2000 machine as a web server
for
> > my cgi scripts that used to reside on a Unix machine. The script files
and
> > HTML files are saved into the C:\Inetpub\wwwroot directory.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > IE does not actually execute CGI or Python or
> > > anything except *client-side* Javascript and Java.  If you want
> > > to execute CGI, you have to have a web server running, and the
> > > web server itself executes the CGI and returns its results to
> > > IE in the form of HTML.
> > >
> > > IE can handle HTML that is loaded from the local filesystem, but
> > > consider this to be a special feature, not something that means
> > > you can treat your hard drive exactly as you treat a web server.
> > >
> > > If you want to learn more, try looking at CGIHTTPServer in the
> > > standard library, or look into setting up another web server
> > > locally, perhaps ... Twisted.  :-)
> > >
> > > -Peter





From mru at users.sourceforge.net  Sun Jun 29 07:14:13 2003
From: mru at users.sourceforge.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?M=E5ns_Rullg=E5rd?=)
Date: 29 Jun 2003 13:14:13 +0200
Subject: Fast CGI Vs Java Application Servers
References: <kAxLa.592$_I3.34571@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3efec309$0$49100$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <yw1xn0g116gq.fsf@fruxo.e.kth.se>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> writes:

> > How does FastCGI compare against java Apps running in java app
> > servers like TomCat, Sun One, WebLogic and WebSphere?
> 
> 
> A (fast)CGI program compared to the actual Java program may not be
> much of a difference, depending on the program of course. What is
> a *huge* difference is that the Java app is running inside an
> *application server*. A (J2EE) Application Server provides a
> rich environment on which to base your scalable enterprise applications:
> - security
> - connectivity
> - scalability (performance, clustering)
> - maintainability / managability
> - error reporting/logging
> - component based (EJBs)
> - database connectivity and object persistence
> - transactions
> - ...

Someone mentioned buzzwords elsewhere in this thread.

> All of these are standardized in some way (as part of J2EE).
> In theory you can move your J2EE application to a different
> environment running on a different vendor's app server without
> much sweat.

That is, after you spent three weeks trying to figure out the correct
classpath, if one even exists.

> You don't have any of this readily available when writing (fast)CGI
> applications; you have to implement all of these yourself.

Hey, it could be fun.

-- 
M?ns Rullg?rd
mru at users.sf.net



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sat Jun  7 20:36:07 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 18:36:07 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>; from ed@membled.com on Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 10:19:35PM +0100
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org> <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <20030607183607.B2509@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ed Avis:
> Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:
> 
> >We already have closures, don't we?
  [...]
> Which Python version does this require?  (The machine to hand has only
> 1.5.2, although normally I use 2.2 or so.)

I'm not sure, actually.  That example, and the one below, were
copied from 2.2.2 interactive sessions.

> >Or do you want to be able to rebind names in outer scopes?
> 
> I mean things like
  [...example...]

As written your example does require the ability to rebind
variables in outer scopes, which is not possible.  But you could
use a mutable type instead, to achieve the same effect:

    >>> def make_adder():
    ...     x = [0]
    ...     def incr():
    ...         x[0] += 1
    ...         return x[0]
    ...     return incr
    ... 
    >>> f = make_adder()
    >>> g = make_adder()
    >>> f(), f(), g(), g()
    (1, 2, 1, 2)

This output, of course, implies the existence of more than one
binding for x (which, no doubt, is why you chose it for your
example).

Some prefer using objects for this kind of thing.  They're more
introspectable, for one thing.

  [...]
> >(Where are the complaints about having to name small classes?)
> 
> OTOH, think how awkward it would be if you had to name
> small expressions:

Nice counterpoint!

  [...]
> >The main problem is syntactic; thus Terry's suggestion that you
> >produce a grammar rule for your proposal.  (That means BNF, not an
> >informal description such as "anything that can fit on a line".
> 
> How about
> 
>     lamda_form ::=
>                 "lambda" [parameter_list]: simple_stmt
> 
> As you know, simple_stmt is a statement that fits on one line.

Well, I'm not sure about that characterization of simple_stmt
(e.g., compound statements can fit on one line too), but let it be.

First note that, at present, the tuple comma is of lower
precedence than lambda:
    lambda x: x, 3
is a tuple, not a function returning a tuple.  This certainly has
to be preserved, for backwards compatibility.

Now consider:

    swap = lambda L,i,j: L[i], L[j] = L[j], L[i]

How is the parser to know, once it has read as far as
    lambda L,i,j: L[i],
whether this is the end of the lambda_form?  It would be, with the
present syntax.

> [...] It looks
> as though it is lambda that is particularly peculiar, even though in
> fact it is just inheriting the statement/expression divide from other
> parts of the language.  Elsewhere you don't have to care about the
> difference, because any expression can be used as an expression_stmt.

But not the reverse -- statements cannot be used in expressions.
All of the following are illegal, for example:

    while print x:
        # ...

    if del x[0]:
        # ...

    y = 3 + 4*(assert x > 1)

You don't usually need to think about the statement/expression
distinction, I agree, but *not* because they're interchangeable in
most contexts -- that's simply false.  It's that the division
between them is almost perfectly done, so you never even think to
put a statement in an expression (unless you have a C background
and weird ideas about assignment).

If there is a problem here, imho it is that lambda makes people
want to put statements in expressions, thereby bringing to centre
stage a distinction which is usually unobtrusive.  Anonymity is a
red herring; so are closures; the important point is that lambdas
are expressions and defs are statements.

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "The world will end if you get this wrong."
staschuk at telusplanet.net     -- "Typesetting Mathematics -- User's Guide",
                                 Brian Kernighan and Lorrinda Cherry




From cswiger at mac.com  Wed Jun  4 09:25:19 2003
From: cswiger at mac.com (Chuck Swiger)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 09:25:19 -0400
Subject: nntplib body question
In-Reply-To: <E_iDa.1179012$YZ.185060@news.easynews.com>
References: <879Da.1139848$uT2.175876@news.easynews.com> <m3isrmh3by.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <7xhe7678dk.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <E_iDa.1179012$YZ.185060@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <3EDDF33F.4070401@mac.com>

Peter Melchart wrote:
[ ... ]
> that's exactly what i want to do. but when i call nntpconn.body(id) it
> retrieves the whole body. how can i cut the connection after a certain
> amount of bytes. a kind of network-callback would be nice that is called
> after reading 1K or so, so i can skip the rest after 1 read 100 lines or
> so...
> is there anything like that ?
> the thing is, that i dont want to retrieve the whole article.

Can you provide a context for what you're trying to accomplish?

The overview database (xover command) might be able to provide a solution 
without pounding on the news server too badly.  Simply breaking the connection 
in the middle is going to leave a nnrpd lingering around.  Are you intending to 
only do this once in a while, or are were you planning to do this for lots of 
articles in some sort of scan?

-- 
-Chuck






From andrew at acooke.org  Sat Jun 14 09:45:38 2003
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 09:45:38 -0400
Subject: why does python execute line bye line as im coding?????????
In-Reply-To: <20030613235210.11559.00000446@mb-m13.aol.com>
References: <20030613235210.11559.00000446@mb-m13.aol.com>
Message-ID: <87fzmckc1p.fsf@acooke.org>

hi,

looks like you're typing things directly into python (you've started
up the python interpreter in a window and are entering code).  if you
use python that way it will process each line like you describe.

the alternative is to put the python commands in a file as a program
and then get python to run the program after you've written
everything.  to do that you need an editor to edit the file.  even
better, use IDLE (if you're using windows, select "IDLE" from the
python menu and use that) it is an editor that "knows about" python
and so has extra functionality.  see
http://www.python.org/idle/doc/idle2.html

cheers,
andrew

ps i'm replying to your email directly and to the group, but i suspect
you won't get the email as aol filter out emails from people like me
that run email servers on their own machines...

l48r4t at aol.com (L48R4T) writes:
> im just going through the python for beginrers tutorial and all was cool untill
> i stated trying to do thing s like
> input = name("whats your name")
> print "hello  "name
> 
> the above example would execute after i hit return on the first line. not
> giving me the chance to input the second line of code ???????????????????
> any help wi=ould be a blessing thanks 
> simon
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

-- 
http://www.acooke.org





From mickel at csc.fi  Mon Jun 23 02:37:51 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:37:51 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Getting all set attributes of a Tkinter widget?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0306230934210.31596-100000@sampo.csc.fi>

Hi everybody,

How do I get the names of all available attributes (variables, methods) a
Tkinter widget has? Seems to me this should be really easy, but I just
can't seem to get it right (my mind is a blank). I tried widget.__dict__
but that didn't get me anywhere. Any ideas?

Cheers,

/Mickel Gr?nroos
--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi





From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Fri Jun 27 18:03:17 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 15:03:17 -0700
Subject: Python and Databases
In-Reply-To: <3EFCBDD4.CCADD318@crary.com>
References: <babf5t$527$1@main.gmane.org>  <3EFCBDD4.CCADD318@crary.com>
Message-ID: <1056751397.5216.60.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Fri, 2003-06-27 at 14:57, Bradley D. Larson wrote:
> I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up thus far.... I use it on multiple
> databases and multiple platforms. I can move applications from one platform to
> another without modifications.
> 
> I have found the most practical (and portable) method of accessing databases is
> with the dbi/odbc that comes with python. Not as fast as direct access and it
> requires you to load and set up an ODBC data source for each DB server and Access
> DB but.... the benefits far outweigh the speed issues.
> 
> I have migrated entire applications from one DB to another without with minimal
> code changes. As an application matures or the database grows I move the data to a
> more robust database server.

Has anyone used this?

http://sqlrelay.sourceforge.net/

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From rogue9 at ntlworld.com  Thu Jun 12 16:00:18 2003
From: rogue9 at ntlworld.com (Rogue9)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 21:00:18 +0100
Subject: random picks from a list
Message-ID: <3ee8dbd6@shknews01>

Hi All,
I?m working on a program for lottery analysing and need to generate
random numbers from a filtered list of numbers i.e. I have reduced the
likely ?winning? numbers to a smaller pool and have them in a list. How
do i use the random funtion in Python to pick random numbers from this
list?Is this the use of the seq argument in the random function?
The documentation does not cover the use of all the arguments available
for this function and my attempts to use if have been a failure.
Guidance would be very much welcome Pythonistas,
Thanks
Lol McBride



From see at my.signature.com  Sun Jun  1 15:10:09 2003
From: see at my.signature.com (Andrei)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 19:10:09 +0000
Subject: Some pythonic advice needed
References: <EOmCa.31502$1u5.2321@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
Message-ID: <2946028.1054494609@dbforums.com>

Originally posted by Rudy Schockaert 
> It is the reverse translation that makes it difficult for me.
> <snip>
> 

Here's a quick interactive session for reversing the dictionary

>>> lat_dut = {"iste": ["dat", "die"], "ille": ["dat", "die"], "vere":
>>> ["waar"]}
>>> dut_lat = {}
>>> for latinword in lat_dut.keys():
..     for dutchword in lat_dut[latinword]:
..         if dut_lat.has_key(dutchword):
..             dut_lat[dutchword].append(latinword)
..         else:
..             dut_lat[dutchword]=[latinword]
..
>>> print dut_lat
{'dat': ['ille', 'iste'], 'die': ['ille', 'iste'], 'waar': ['vere']}

It's not clear to me how you define the "expected" answer. Would you say
"iste" would suppose to return "die" or "dat"? (I speak Dutch and I know
they mean the same, so none is better or worse than the other). Perhaps
you should consider a different approach, e.g. allow to give more than
one answer and point it out on-screen when not all possibilities have
been exhausted. Or group equivalent answers, perhaps like this
interactive session:

>>> class Answer(object):
..     def __init__(self, *args):
..         """The args are a list of possible answers"""
..         self.words = args[:]
..         self.score = 0
..     def __str__(self):
..         return "%s: %s" % (self.words, self.score)
..
>>> for translation in lat_dut["iste"]: print translation
..
('dat', 'die'): 0

>>> for translation in lat_dut["ubi"]: print translation
..
('waar',): 0
('wanneer',): 0

As you see, "dat" and "die" are grouped here and have a common score as
both are equivalent, while "waar" and "wanneer" have separate scores as
they are different words.

--
print &quot;znvy: cebwrpg5 at bcrenznvy.pbz
Fcnzserr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp zrffntrf. V ernq gur yvfg, ab arrq gb PP.&quot;.decode(&quot;rot13&quot;)


Posted via http://dbforums.com



From jim at zope.com  Sun Jun 29 08:56:54 2003
From: jim at zope.com (Jim Fulton)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 08:56:54 -0400
Subject: ExtensionClass/Persistent and __cmp__ is tricky
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKECIEMAB.tim@zope.com>
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKECIEMAB.tim@zope.com>
Message-ID: <3EFEE216.5010904@zope.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> [Christian Reis]
> 

....

>>It seems you can't compare ExtensionClass with basic types; in Python
>>2.1.3 at least it appears to me that try_3way_compare doesn't want to
>>call tp_compare on the second instance because it's not a PyInstance.
> 
> 
> Possibly so.  I don't think anyone really understands the details of
> ExtensionClass except for Jim (Fulton), and his understanding was fresh
> years ago -- ExtensionClass isn't part of Python, it's part of Zope.


ExtensionClass is a type.  There's this funny rule for types and
__cmp__ that __cmp__ is only called for types when:

- Comparing objects of the same type or

- One of the types is a number.

Otherwise, Python falls back to address comparison.

This rule is really annoying.  You can get around this, as I recall
by implementing some numeric methods (e.g. __nonzero__). That will make
Python call EC's __cmp__ more often.

__cmp__ should be deprecated. Unfortunately, EC doesn't support rich comparisons.
The good news is that soon, ZODB3 will support new-style classes.

Jim

-- 
Jim Fulton           mailto:jim at zope.com       Python Powered!
CTO                  (703) 361-1714            http://www.python.org
Zope Corporation     http://www.zope.com       http://www.zope.org





From jansun at home.se  Sat Jun  7 18:39:14 2003
From: jansun at home.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Sundstr=F6m?=)
Date: 7 Jun 2003 15:39:14 -0700
Subject: Characters in Python
References: <aaf09156.0306050423.21b45f6@posting.google.com> <23891c90.0306060626.24e6646d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <aaf09156.0306071439.2a156033@posting.google.com>

paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) wrote in message news:

> but an oversight carried over from an earlier time. Anyway, as a point
> of reference it should be noted that ASCII is a 7 bit standard, if not
> officially (but I think it actually is) then for most intents and
> purposes you should consider it to be so. I imagine that you actually
> mean, "Can I work with strings in my own encoding?" With IDLEfork, the
> answer is yes.

You are quite right. It is just that on a Windows implementation it feels
rather surprising not to be able to use anyting but ASCII. I felt set back
to about 1980 at my first confrontation with Python.


> Personally, I think that most people would be better off working with
> Unicode. In IDLEfork you can actually print Unicode objects directly.

Yes, I would also prefer to use unicode. Now it seems that this was a
problem with Python 2.2 which is fixed in Python 2.3. 
Thanks to the answers here I also quickly found the solution I originally
was looking for in the FAQ (I missed it at first), namely setting

     encoding = "utf-8"

in the file site.py

Adapting a program to the locale seems a good idea. 
By the way, where do I find what strings are acceptable names for encodings?



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun 16 23:04:08 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:04:08 -0600
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <1fwnw3e.1c42kx0qj1exoN%kpreid@attglobal.net>; from kpreid@attglobal.net on Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 02:31:28AM +0000
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <3EEDDA04.8000005@netspace.net.au> <3EEDD203.54F5672B@engcorp.com> <mailman.1055773665.28647.python-list@python.org> <1fwnw3e.1c42kx0qj1exoN%kpreid@attglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20030616210408.A3458@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Kevin Reid:
  [...]
> I'll put my gripe here just because you mentioned named parameters:
> 
> I would like to use named parameters more often in Python, but I don't
> like them being required to be optional.

They're not, in 2.2.2 at least:

    >>> def foo(a):
    ...     print a
    ... 
    >>> foo(a=3)
    3
    >>> foo()
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    TypeError: foo() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)

Do I misunderstand your gripe?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                7\ 7'Z {&~         .
staschuk at telusplanet.net                        Y r          --/hG-
                                            (__/ )_             1^1`




From djones at shcorp.com  Sun Jun  8 11:39:46 2003
From: djones at shcorp.com (Dan Jones)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 11:39:46 -0400
Subject: cPickle.load() question
Message-ID: <3EE358C2.2080504@shcorp.com>

Hello all!

I'm new to python and am trying to write a simple program to keep a list 
of my customers and generate pdf invoices for them (haven't gotten that 
far yet, any pdf module recommendations?). I have defined a customer 
class and a function to pickle them into a file. I'm just not sure how 
to go about reading the customer file back in. Is there a way to iterate 
over a pickled file and cPickle.load() each entry into a list?





From roy at panix.com  Wed Jun 11 09:34:02 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:34:02 -0400
Subject: PEP-317
References: <1055255402.3ee5eb6ae09ee@mcherm.com> <bc551q$mie$1@main.gmane.org> <mailman.1055297660.22329.python-list@python.org> <1055312155.157424@yasure>
Message-ID: <roy-B36181.09340211062003@reader1.panix.com>

"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote:
> "Never" would be a reasonable schedule, hope that's constructive.
> The reasons advanced for breaking currently valid "raise" statements
> would be excellent for a newly introduced feature, but those same
> excellent sentiments add up to "gratuitous" here.  Break things
> only when necessary, not just for the sake of tidiness.

I have to agree with that.  I'm all for making stuff better, but if it 
means breaking something that currently works, it's a bad idea.  I'd 
much rather live with a few "historical warts" in the language than have 
to put up with working code breaking.

I've got python apps that I wrote 4-5 years ago at a previous job that 
are still in production use.  I don't work there any more.  Let's say 
somebody were to upgrade the python interpreter running on that system.  
All of a sudden, stuff that had been working for eons would stop 
working.  Stuff that nobody is really familiar with anymore.

Let's face it, getting Python mindshare is often an uphill battle.  In 
the scenario above, it's not hard to imagine some PHB saying, "Screw 
that Python crap, somebody rewrite that in a language I can trust".



From michaels at rd.bbc.co.uk  Fri Jun  6 05:11:01 2003
From: michaels at rd.bbc.co.uk (Michael Sparks)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 02:11:01 -0700
Subject: Yield inside try...finally
References: <bbiisd$76k$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>	<3EDCEC1F.96CB0766@hotmail.com> <bbkbi5$n97$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <mailman.1054731488.12450.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1cbe61a5.0306060111.35ebc01c@posting.google.com>

andrew cooke <andrew at acooke.org> wrote :
...
> in that case, maybe you should use a separate thread?!

The reason for not using threads is the usual one in systems aiming for
high network server load. If you have a big enough load on the system
with a threads based approach you end up with a measurably large overhead
in context switching between threads or processes. On some OSs this
isn't _too_ bad, on some it's horrendous. Also by using threads you
it's harder to perform adaptive scheduling based on (say) throughput
to/from clients. With an asynchronous approach you have at least that
potential in a much easier form - simply because you're controlling the
scheduling, not the OS.

If it was just a client side piece of code I'd probably be using the standard
Socket stuff supplied with python + threads where necessary.

Thanks for the comments though :)

Regards,


Michael.
--
Michael.Sparks at rd.bbc.co.uk
British Broadcasting Corporation, Research and Development
Kingswood Warren, Surrey KT20 6NP

This message (and any attachments) may contain personal views
which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.



From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Fri Jun  6 19:18:13 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 23:18:13 GMT
Subject: Newbie in developping Webapplications needs tips.
References: <mailman.1054926013.1137.python-list@python.org> <09u1evcqe24qd39rb06m8phkei9huvjok8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <t682evkf731g92e2imiho7aaatvsm6ebr0@4ax.com>

On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 20:44:07 GMT, Afanasiy <abelikov72 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>I am still trying to switch to Python for web development, but
>have used it extensively in standard application development.
>
>For my requirements, mod_python ended up being the only solution.

I just wanted to add something I forgot, and one of a couple big reasons I
am not exactly diving into things just yet... mod_python is not safe for
shared hosts as far as I know. It has no equivalent of PHP's safe mode.
Apache 2's 'Perchild MPM' is supposed to deprecate this need, but that
still requires an httpd.conf edit and a restart of Apache for every user
added, very annoying, especially to shared hosters.

  http://apache.slashdot.org/apache/02/12/02/1346206.shtml?tid=
  http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/perchild.html
  http://www.modpython.org/pipermail/mod_python/2001-November/001705.html

I've also been pointed to various web forum threads by a couple ISP's
showing other reasons they cannot provide shared-host Python support.

However, I think this safe mode dilemma is the most significant reason.

-AB



From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Sun Jun  1 06:35:17 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 1 Jun 2003 03:35:17 -0700
Subject: CGI question: safe passwords possible?
References: <cb035744.0305301401.3fdc8a96@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054338287.30346.python-list@python.org> <bb8uhp$7594h$2@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de> <cb035744.0305302335.58d4f17a@posting.google.com> <3ED86146.F2029ADB@alcyone.com> <1054368881.10515.265.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1054376930.25954.python-list@python.org> <7x1xyfgxq6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <cb035744.0305310955.16d699a0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0306010235.5849604f@posting.google.com>

I would like to thank you all for filling up some vacuums in my
knowledge!

I was already experimenting with httplib and urllib2 modules to see if
I can do HTTP Digest authentication but this is all very cumbersome
and not compatible among hosts (as far as I understand).  But my
conclusion is so much simpler that all this!  If you really want
security, use HTTPS.  That is HTTP over a SSL connection (one of the
many things I did not know).  Just let your host turn your whole site
into HTTPS and then you are secure.  The *great* advantage is that you
do not have to change a single line of code in your prototype that
works with plain HTTP.  That one has "user" and "password" fiels that
are sent in the open, but who cares?  It's only a prototype.  If there
is real money involved get HTTPS.

Simple, nice, elegant.

Am I right?  Is it true, the part about not having to change your HTML
and CGI code?  Well, except for some URLs in them maybe, but they
could be stored in a separate configuration file.  I mean, you maybe
have to change things like http://yourhost/yourloginpage.html to
http://yourhost/yourloginpage.shtml or something?

Anyway, thanks again.  This made my work a lot simpler!

-- 
One of the great skills in using any language is knowing
what not to use, what not to say.  ... There's that
simplicity thing again.
                -- Ron Jeffries



From anthony_barker at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 27 15:44:25 2003
From: anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 12:44:25 -0700
Subject: Inputbox with win32api?
Message-ID: <899f842.0306271144.592f9c29@posting.google.com>

Is there a simple way of throwing up a simple Inputbox with win32 api
in python?

I could use tk 
data=tkSimpleDialog.askstring( title="Input",prompt="Email Address?")

but that adds 700K to the package when I distribute it to non python
users as it forces me to include tk. (Using MacMillian installer).

Thanks

Anthony



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jun 20 04:32:38 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:32:38 +0200
Subject: Btrieve/C-extension question
References: <bcrua6$120$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <94974e1a.0306190653.3a829cb6@posting.google.com> <bcslog$70p$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <bcul5m$4eq$1@main.gmane.org>

vincent wehren wrote:

> Yes, that was my guess too...
> So I did someting along the lines of:
>
> pos = PyCObject_FromVoidPtr(pos_blk; NULL) ;
> return Py_BuildValue("N", pos);
>
> Passing is back in where I was getting trouble:
> ( passed back in via PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O", pos) )
> pos_blk = PyCObjectAsVoidPtr(pos);
> doesn't seem to work...

better make that:

    PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "O", &pos)

also, the CObject approach only works if someone else is main-
taining the pos_blk memory for you (CObject won't magically hold
on to the memory, and won't release it for you when you're done)

if you need to maintain your own memory buffer, using a string
or a custom type is a much more reliable solution.

</F>







From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Jun 21 16:48:42 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:48:42 -0400
Subject: Updating to Python 2.2.3
In-Reply-To: <bd2741$nrpv0$1@ID-192795.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEBLELAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Christoph St?hli]
> I would like to update Python 2.2.2 to the newest version (2.2.3). Do
> I have to uninstall the older version first?

I do, and I've never tried not to.  I don't know what would happen if you
don't.  Why risk it?  The PLabs Windows installer certainly doesn't
uninstall older versions first.

> Do i have to reinstall all the side-packages (VPython, wxPython etc.)?

No, and the PLabs uninstaller for 2.2.2 won't remove them either, so it's
safe to use that to uninstall 2.2.2 first.  The 2.2.3 installer will note
that the installation directory already exists then, and ask you whether you
want to install 2.2.3 on top of it.  Say yes.

> I'm running Windoze XP.

Note that the answer is different then when you move from Python 2.2.3 to
2.3 -- in WindowsLand, Python releases are not compatible across minor
version numbers (the second digit in i.j.k).  That's unique to Windows, BTW
(on Linux, e.g., you'll probably be able to use 3rd-party binaries compiled
for 2.2.3 with 2.3 too, but never across a minor version number increment on
Windows).






From kendear at nospam.com  Thu Jun 19 05:38:39 2003
From: kendear at nospam.com (Kendear)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:38:39 GMT
Subject: thinkings on shallow copy
Message-ID: <3EF1849E.6060103@nospam.com>

i was just looking at docstrings and saw the one
for copy.__doc__ regarding copy.copy():

 > - A shallow copy constructs a new compound object and then (to the
 >   extent possible) inserts *the same objects* into in that the
 >   original contains.

I wonder if it is actually to insert *the same object references*
into the new compound object...

in python, when we say

a = [1, 3, 10]

"a" is a variable whose value is a reference (a pointer) to
the object, which in this case is a list, is that correct?

so if we say
b = a

there is no difference between a and b.
they are both just a reference to the same
list object.

and there is no way we can insert the whole list
object into any python variable.  we merely
set a variable to refer to an object in RAM.

so shallow copy constructs a new compound object
and copies the references in the source compound
object to the new compound object, is that correct?





From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Jun 19 12:59:06 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 16:59:06 GMT
Subject: sum(strings)
References: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr>
Message-ID: <uZlIa.10$38.9@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

"Steve McAllister" <nosp at m.needed> wrote in message
news:bcsjii$3vf$1 at alto.univ-mlv.fr...
> Why does sum reject strings?

Because there is just one right way to do it:

    "".join([str1, str2, str3, ...])

Summing involves use of the repeated adds which
is terribly inefficient for strings.  But, if you must:

    reduce(str.__add__, [str1, str2, str3, ...], '')

Besides, it's very nice to be able to specify the join
character or blank.

> Is it a matter of efficiency of the
> underlying implementation?

Nope, it's is just a bad idea.


Raymond Hettinger





From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jun  3 04:35:10 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 01:35:10 -0700
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.3999999999 ?
References: <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com> <mailman.1053017062.18647.python-list@python.org> <895e4ce2.0306021736.13c657a5@posting.google.com> <slrnbdo1i8.a95.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3EDC1074.CA05EC23@alcyone.com> <slrnbdo8cl.abe.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3EDC5DBE.83E93BA9@alcyone.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> In article <3EDC1074.CA05EC23 at alcyone.com>, Erik Max Francis wrote:
>
> > I suspect he's being facetious, since 0.999... = 1.
> 
> Right.  But it's never _stored_ as an infinite number of nines.  Nor
> could
> it be.

Of course not, hence the facetiousness.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Sometimes there's no point in giving up.
\__/  Louis Wu



From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jun 20 11:20:04 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:20:04 +0200
Subject: scheduling events
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0306200719.70649ed0@posting.google.com>
References: <2259b0e2.0306200719.70649ed0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF32624.3060806@ghaering.de>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> I would like a python script that execute a given command at a fixed
> time (for instance, today at 15:30). It should be portable to both
> Linux and Windows. I am too lazy to look at the sched module today,
> therefore I will take my chance at c.l.p. ;) Any hints ?

The most portable and IMO best way is to let the system administrator 
install a job.

The only portable pure-Python solution I know is to use time.sleep().

-- Gerhard




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sun Jun 22 15:09:06 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 15:09:06 -0400
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056171397.17027.python-list@python.org>
 <3EF471BA.EE4F056@hotmail.com>
 <slrnbf8tsd.qc.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
 <m3r85nmoch.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <S0I9+kKkXEMc092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1056253418.8700.python-list@python.org>
 <m34r2ibnca.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <S7f9+kKkX8LE092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters <mertz at gnosis.cx> writes:
|> I just read a couple dozen 7-bit ASCII documents on c.l.py before
|> getting to Martin's 7-bit ASCII document arguing against the prevelance
|> of 7-bit ASCII documents (and I haven't even opened my favorite HTML
|> viewer for the day yet).

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) wrote previously:
|http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/f/flat-ASCII.html
|RFC-822 message are not flat ASCII.
|But the news reader has done some rendering of the messages, no
|(e.g. header, body, it probably suppressed the Message-ID altogether)?
|this would indicate that they are not flat...

I don't run one of those sissy newsreaders that surpress all the headers
:-) (actually, there is a toggle to supress -some- of the headers, but
most still appear either way).

But that's a side point.  The messages I read a couple dozen of are the
BODIES of NNTP messages.  Y'know, the things that Martin and others
wrote in this thread (and in other threads); not the things their client
software slapped on.  By most any reasonable measure, Usenet messages
are plain (7-bit) ASCII, even though they have some special markup in
the mostly-automatic headers.

Likewise, if I write a .TXT document in glorious ASCII, then slap a
'<pre>...</pre>' at the beginning and end of the whole thing, it's still
pretty much an ASCII document.  Or if I put Python triple-quotes around
the whole document and store the text in a variable, it is still pretty
much an ASCII document stored in the variable (even though the source
code around it is structured).

Yours, Lulu...

P.S. There *are* gradual transitions.  My plain document contains a
little bit of markup.  Some special puntuation to emphasize words;
left-margin symbols to indicate quotation; a fairly conventional
structure for excerpting and attribution of previous remarks; smileys.
Other formats like reST add a bit more markup while still remaining
-almost ASCII-.

--
---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Thu Jun 26 22:26:47 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 12:16:47 +0950
Subject: stupid question about os.listdir
References: <MTNKa.2930$BM.1845254@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbfnc0n.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:22:36 GMT, Jason Kratz wrote:
> os.listdir takes a pathname as an arg but it doesn't actually list the
> contents of the dir I pass in.

Please reduce the problem to a simple script that others can examine,
and post it here.  If the behaviour is as you say, it should be only a
few lines long:

    import os
    os.listdir( 'somethingyouthinkshouldwork' )

-- 
 \      "God forbid that any book should be banned. The practice is as |
  `\               indefensible as infanticide."  -- Dame Rebecca West |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From bh at intevation.de  Thu Jun  5 08:58:54 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 14:58:54 +0200
Subject: Efficient data flow between orthogonal C extensions?
References: <slrnbdsl66.21h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no> <87el29rpmv.fsf@smtp.gsi.de> <M75SJKAOev3+EwLv@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <6qfzmokc1t.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <slrnbduccc.32h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <6qbrxck7e9.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland) writes:

> Somewhat similar to the approach in the standard docs, then, except
> that you don't #include the .h-file of each extension...? (I'll look
> into the source.)

pstokenize #includes filter.h which contains a declaration of the struct
type and various function pointer types.

> Maybe I'm missing an important part of the functionality here... Is it
> possible to only keep a generic version of these declarations, and to
> store the specific implementations as PyCObjects? Is that what you do
> in Sketch?
> 
> Basically, what I would like to do is have all C components totally
> ignorant of each other and only receive info about the "outside world"
> from the Python interpreter (probably in the form of PyCObjects).

Well, if you want to access them at a lower level than Python's abstract
object API with the PyObject_* functions then you'll have to define at
least an application specific C Api. 

One way to go about this that I can think of right now and that
minimizes dependencies would be to assume that all objects that
implement this interface have a pointer to a struct with function
pointers as their first struct element after PyObject_HEAD. e.g.

typedef struct {
    void (*do_something)(PyObject * self, int some_arg);
    /* ... */
} FooMethods;

typedef struct {
    PyObject_HEAD
    FooMethods * methods;
   /* ... */
}
FooObject;


and then the API functions become simply

void
FooDoSomething(PyObject * obj, int some_arg)
{

    /* check that obj is indeed a FooObject left as an exercise for the
     * reader :) but one could use PyObject_IsInstance, assuming all
     * types are derived from the same base type which probably requires
     * new style classes 
     */
   
    ((FooObject*)obj)->methods->do_something(obj, some_arg);
}


The FooMethods struct would work more or less like the type object and
perhaps there is a way to put these C-level methods into the type object
somehow. I don't there being a clean way for this but perhaps this is
possible now with new style classes.

The approach taken in Sketch's stream filters is a bit similar to the
FooMethods approach outlined above but doesn't go as far because there
is only one object type for all filter objects and the instances only
differ in which function pointers and filter specific data they have.

> >PyGTK also does somethng like this.
> 
> OK. Thanks.

PyGTK also has pygtk specific header files, though.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com  Thu Jun  5 12:37:31 2003
From: hgg9140 at cola2.ca.boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:37:31 GMT
Subject: Newbie: How do you enable python scripts in apache server?
References: <3EDF5EC6.6050704@sci.kun.nl>
Message-ID: <xqxbrxccwfo.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Husam <husalwan at sci.kun.nl> writes:

> Hi,
> I have apache server running on redhat 9 and wants to run python scripts
> with it. I made a test script test.py and chmod to 777. The script sits
> in the root directory of the www-site. The script is this:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> print "Content-Type: text/plain\n\n"
> print "Hello, Python!"
> 
> Although the script executes properly in konsole terminal, the problem
> is when I try to execute this script in netscape like this:
> http://localhost/test.py
> 
> the script is showing as plain text.
> 
> Can anybody points me to the right direction?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 

You say "in the root directory".  Your symptoms suggest a
misunderstanding.  There are several "root" dirs in an apache
installation.  Typically:

  /usr/local/httpd/      root as in "ServerRoot"
     bin/
     conf/
       httpd.conf        where roots are defined
     htdocs/             root for docs
       mytest1.py        get via example.org/mytest1.py
     cgi-bin/            root for cgis
       mytest2.py        execute, and report out what it generates   

If you put your code at mytest1.py, the server thinks you just mean to
report the raw text (your symptom).  If you put it at mytest2.py, then
the server will know you mena it to be executed.

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757



From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Jun  2 14:10:44 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:10:44 +0100
Subject: A Python application server?
References: <bbfmfo$ulf$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> <mailman.1054576325.11678.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbg3v2$8li$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Evan Simpson" <evan at 4-am.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1054576325.11678.python-list at python.org...
> Duncan Smith wrote:
> > "Java is the only mainstream technology that adds the required level of
> > safety for code travelling around a network, and the flexibility to
invent
> > our own controls, regardless of the operating system being used."
>
> This is one of Zope's core features.  Scripts, Documents, Methods, and
> Templates (the various sorts of programmable object in Zope) are all
> constrained by Zope's security policies.  You can give a totally
> untrusted user the ability to use Python code, and the worst they can do
> to your server is deny service.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Evan @ 4-am
>
>

Now I'm leaning towards Zope :-).

Duncan





From akineko at pacbell.net  Thu Jun 12 15:13:53 2003
From: akineko at pacbell.net (Aki Niimura)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 12:13:53 -0700
Subject: TkInter/McMillan installer question.
References: <b714b8de.0306032110.378de36c@posting.google.com> <bbkrsm$qa0$1@services.kq.no>
Message-ID: <b714b8de.0306121113.70777bad@posting.google.com>

Rune Hansen <rune.hansen at sinsenveien83.com> wrote
> If my memory (and McMillans documentation) servers me right you'll have 
> to install win32all from
> http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/ to get the -icon option to 
> work. You should definetively install win32all if you are going to work 
> on the win* platform at all. I'm certain it will help with your 
> "disapointments".

Thank you for helping me on this problem.
Yes, after installing win32all I successfully assign an icon file to the 
application I wrote.

Sorry for reporting this late as I was out of the country for a week.

BTW, my "disappointments" are mainly came from the OS itself. However, 
such nice tools, like win32all, definitely mitigate such.

Thanks!
Aki Niimura



From m at moshez.org  Wed Jun  4 16:05:00 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 20:05:00 -0000
Subject: PythonD: 4Suite or Twisted?
In-Reply-To: <3ede49fa$0$16629$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <3ede49fa$0$16629$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>, <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <mailman.1054729274.8347.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030604200500.29498.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, "deckerben" <bdeck at lycos.co.uk> wrote:

> Good to hear. I was a little concerned by the 'manhole' command coming back
> saying I didn't have GTK. Do you think it is possible to rewrite this tools
> using the curses module (supported under DOS)?

If you want to write "cursesmanhole", you're welcome to :)
But usually using a curses client for telnet would probably get you
what you want. The telnet server has the same capabilities as the
manhole server, more or less.

> PythonD provides full socketmodule and selectmodule support. We were able to
> *build* and *install* the latest TWISTED as part of our in-house
> experimentation. But when I typed 'coil -l /dev/env/DJDIR/bin/web.tap' it
> returned the error:
> "No module named tendril"

coil is not really functional, and is slated for removal soon.

> Does TWISTED require any DOS-killers like os.fork() or os.popen2() ??

No.
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From dsada at asd.com  Thu Jun 19 07:53:58 2003
From: dsada at asd.com (Hunter Peress)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:53:58 GMT
Subject: audio recording volunteers sought for europython
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.19.11.54.35.331145@asd.com>

Hi, the europython folks allowed me to organize a grassroots recording
effort

all you will need is a laptop and a microphone. As many people as
possible would be great, overlap is fine.

If interested, see full instructions here so that you can produce
recordings that are compliant (in a technical sense) with the policy:

http://tacos.sus.mcgill.ca/~hperes/europy_audio/

there is a also a link to this directly from www.europython.org (see the
right side of the page)





From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Sun Jun 29 02:26:54 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 28 Jun 2003 23:26:54 -0700
Subject: Python Import Statement
References: <mailman.1056853846.26424.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <33803989.0306282226.2ef7bb5a@posting.google.com>

Hello Jinal,

> Hi I have two files
> say
> 
> a.py
> 
> b.py
> 
> 
> a.py has 3 classes
> 
> A
> B
> C
> 
> Now in b.py I want to instantiate an object of class B
> 
> so this is what I do in file b
> 
> from xyz.A import B    (xyz is the directory where A is lying and the
> paths are set accordingly)
You don't need to add the diretory name, just the module name (assuming
it's in sys.path)
import a
b = a.B()
OR
from a import B
b = B()

See also http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node8.html

HTH.
Miki



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun 18 08:42:36 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:42:36 -0400
Subject: preventing creation of instance
References: <bco6se$frs$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de> <mailman.1055897132.700.python-list@python.org> <bcp973$kkp$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <3EF05E3C.C11192CE@engcorp.com>

Mirko Koenig wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 02:44:32 +0200, Jeff Epler wrote:
> 
> > import weakref
> >
> > class test(object):
> >       names = weakref.WeakValueDictionary() def __init__(self, name):
> >               pass
> >
> >       def __new__(cls, name):
> >               print "new", cls.names.keys(), name
> >               if cls.names.has_key(name): return None ret = super(test,
> >               cls).__new__(cls, name) cls.names[name] = ret return ret
> 
> Is using __new__ a common way in programming python like the contructor
> in c++ or is it seldom used ?

Perhaps the best answer is that it's *extremely* "new", no pun intended.
It was only just added to the language, and relatively few people have
probably tried using it, let alone figured out how to judge the best
time to use it, and when not to.

And many of us are still programming with older versions that didn't 
have that feature.

-Peter



From x at x.com  Sat Jun 21 04:37:25 2003
From: x at x.com (Peter Brown)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 18:37:25 +1000
Subject: mod_python hell in Apache/Windows XP
References: <6GTIa.32066$111.24282@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3ef41949$1@usenet.per.paradox.net.au>

sounds familiar - if u work it out pls post here

"Tim" <tim.harford at rogers.com> wrote in message
news:6GTIa.32066$111.24282 at news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> I've read all the posts and tried just about everything. No matter what,
> Apache says it can't find the mod_python module!
>
> Please help :-)
>
> Tim
>
>





From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Wed Jun 18 15:09:59 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:09:59 GMT
Subject: [OT] (was: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?)
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com> <Xns939D3EC4C9004JanC@213.119.4.94> <20030617063032.612B.KLAPOTEC@nusurf.at> <Xns939DABD5AD4CJanC@213.119.4.94> <3EEF3F2B.6BA5BA72@engcorp.com> <Xns939E2E07D8A6EJanC@213.119.4.94> <3EEFD22C.93B58AE3@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <Xns939ED7512C449JanC@213.119.4.94>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> schreef:

>> I was talking about cars with "explosion engines" (or how do you call
>> that in correct English ;)
> 
> Internal combustion engines.  Or, at least, I hope so :-).

Yeah, I could have checked a dictionary, but at 4:30 in the morning...  ;-)

It's called an "explosiemotor" in Dutch.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Mon Jun 23 20:25:20 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 00:25:20 GMT
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbff6ji.png.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 23 Jun 2003 16:29:44 -0700, Dan Bishop wrote:
> mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) wrote:
>> It's understandable once you realize that the shell thinks the '\r'
>> is part of the filename.  Just like
>>
>>     os.execv ('/usr/bin/python\r', ('myfile.py',))
> 
> But how many people use \r at the end of filenames?  Or are even aware
> that they can?
> 
> Even if it isn't a bug, it's a feature that causes more harm than
> good.

You seem to be under the impression that this is some "process the \r at
the end of the filename" feature.  It isn't.  The kernel will treat
everything from the shebang to the linefeed as the command-line to be
used; there's no special "feature" specifically spotting a rogue
character and tripping the foolish user up.

This is simple, known, documented behaviour.  If other systems place
foreign characters in the shebang line, it's up to the *user* to know
that; the kernel does what it's told.  I certainly don't want the kernel
having special-case, workaround code for line-ending confusions that are
nothing to do with it.

When writing shell scripts, there are many things to learn; line endings
is but one of them.  When moving files between operating systems, there
are many things to learn; the differences in line endings is but one of
them.

It's not the job of the kernel to protect the user from herself.  That's
the job of userspace programs -- or meatspace processes :-)

-- 
 \            "A man may be a fool and not know it -- but not if he is |
  `\                                    married."  -- Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sat Jun  7 10:29:59 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 7 Jun 2003 07:29:59 -0700
Subject: solving the metaclass conflict
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7@posting.google.com>

I have just posted a recipe on the online Cookbook that could be of interest
for metaclasses users.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Description:

Any serious user of metaclasses has been bitten at least once by the 
infamous metaclass/metatype conflict. Here I give a general recipe 
to solve the problem, as well as some theory and some examples.

 --> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/204197


                                       Michele



From claird at lairds.com  Wed Jun 25 09:41:43 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:41:43 -0000
Subject: Advice for developing in python with Microsoft Office?
References: <c6f263dc.0306250519.12526baa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vfj9knhvp35e07@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c6f263dc.0306250519.12526baa at posting.google.com>,
jose flanigan <jflanigan at netzero.net> wrote:
>I'm using python to shuffle data in and out of Microsoft PowerPoint
>and Microsoft Excel and create and transfer graphs. The problem I'm
>having is that there are so many methods and properties built into the
>PowerPoint and Excel objects. I have been looking at the PowerPoint
>object documentation built into the Visual Basic development
>environment, but that's not much help. It tells you what's there, but
>not how to do specific things with the object.
>
>Can anybody point me to some resources or advice on getting through
>this? I'm convinced that these Microsoft objects can be useful if I
>could just figure out how to use them correctly.
>
>Thanks in advance. Sorry if I sound frustrated.

Attempts to program Office frustrate many people.  'Fact,
it's hard to falsify the proposition that some of the 
documentation has been managed in order to maximize 
frustration.

<URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/com > has a few hints and refer-
ences I find useful.

Good luck.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From baecker at physik.tu-dresden.de  Sun Jun  1 16:35:48 2003
From: baecker at physik.tu-dresden.de (Arnd Baecker)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:35:48 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Tkinter.Canvas.create_line.coords
In-Reply-To: <bbcdve$dcd$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306012233321.6077@ptpcp2.phy.tu-dresden.de>

_Many_ thanks for the solution and the explanation!
Using  self.plot.coords(self.line, *liste) does the job.

I'll have to meditate a bit about the explanation,
and what the difference between
   Tkinter.Canvas.coords(self, *args)
and
   Tkinter.Canvas.create_line(self, *args, **kw)
is (the latter one works with `list`...).

Using the source maybe points at the origin of the difference
(see the end of this mail, as this is really getting  too technical
for me;-) - a comment in coords says: "# XXX Should use _flatten on args"
...


> [...]
>
> If the above works, we can go on to the next problem, which someone else
> will have to get into if it's going to happen tonight ;-)

Well, on this side of the world the night just starts ;-)
Anyway, there are no further problems left (for the moment).

Best regards,

Arnd



In [10]: Tkinter.Canvas.coords??
Type:           instance method
Base Class:     <type 'instance method'>
String Form:    <unbound method Canvas.coords>
Namespace:      Interactive
File:
/home/abaecker/morepub/PYTHON/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py
Definition:     Tkinter.Canvas.coords(self, *args)
Source:
def coords(self, *args):
        """Return a list of coordinates for the item given in ARGS."""
        # XXX Should use _flatten on args
        return map(getdouble,
                           self.tk.splitlist(
                   self.tk.call((self._w, 'coords') + args)))


In [11]: Tkinter.Canvas.create_line??
Type:           instance method
Base Class:     <type 'instance method'>
String Form:    <unbound method Canvas.create_line>
Namespace:      Interactive
File:
/home/abaecker/morepub/PYTHON/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py
Definition:     Tkinter.Canvas.create_line(self, *args, **kw)
Source:
def create_line(self, *args, **kw):
        """Create line with coordinates x1,y1,...,xn,yn."""
        return self._create('line', args, kw)


In [12]: Tkinter.Canvas._create??
Type:           instance method
Base Class:     <type 'instance method'>
String Form:    <unbound method Canvas._create>
Namespace:      Interactive
File:
/home/abaecker/morepub/PYTHON/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py
Definition:     Tkinter.Canvas._create(self, itemType, args, kw)
Source:
def _create(self, itemType, args, kw): # Args: (val, val, ..., cnf={})
        """Internal function."""
        args = _flatten(args)
        cnf = args[-1]
        if type(cnf) in (DictionaryType, TupleType):
            args = args[:-1]
        else:
            cnf = {}
        return getint(apply(
            self.tk.call,
            (self._w, 'create', itemType)
            + args + self._options(cnf, kw)))






From paul at boddie.net  Tue Jun  3 09:54:46 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 06:54:46 -0700
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.4 if using a variable
References: <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com> <895e4ce2.0306021715.4cc0ba06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0306030554.5359b145@posting.google.com>

dwblas at yahoo.com (D.W.) wrote in message news:<895e4ce2.0306021715.4cc0ba06 at posting.google.com>...
> Evidently, python has different rules for numbers entered in
> interactive mode.

It depends on the "evidence".

> x = 123.3
> print x

# Yes, a different number (it works better for this example):
x = 123.4
print x
print repr(x)

> Results:
> 123.3

123.4
123.40000000000001

> Onward through the fog.

Consider this a lighthouse.

Paul



From BartolomeSintes at ono.com  Mon Jun 23 13:14:59 2003
From: BartolomeSintes at ono.com (Bartolomé Sintes Marco)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:14:59 GMT
Subject: Simulte user input using doctest
Message-ID: <nAGJa.24271$FN3.1910022@news.ono.com>

Hi,
Is it possible to simulate user input in a doctest docstring? For example, I
want to test if this module writes "Andy" when the user writes "Andy". What
would be the docstring?
def askyourname():
    print "What's your name?",
    myname = raw_input()
    print myname

Best regards,
Barto





From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jun  2 22:28:52 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 04:28:52 +0200
Subject: Extension without sub-classing?
In-Reply-To: <3EDB61A1.3050203@magma.ca>
References: <3EDB61A1.3050203@magma.ca>
Message-ID: <3EDC07E4.60301@ghaering.de>

Martin d'Anjou wrote:
> Is it possible to extend a python class without sub-classing? [...]

No, you can use delegation, though. But that doesn't make things easier 
in most cases.

-- Gerhard




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Mon Jun  2 06:11:39 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:11:39 +1000
Subject: Listing only directories?
In-Reply-To: <3edb2094$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
References: <3edb2094$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <20030602101139.GB3978@frobozz>

On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 11:01:55AM +0100, Richard wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am using os.listdir(root) to get a file and directory listing of the
> 'root' directory. However I am trying to filter out only the directories in
> this listing.
> 
> I have tried the following (after reading up in the manual):
> 
> def listDirectories(root):
>     [f for f in os.listdir(root) if os.path.isdir(f)]
>     return f
> 
> but this doesn't seem to do what I want it to, only seeming to return the
> name of one of the directories it finds.

That's because you're only returning one thing <wink>

> Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong, and if I'm barking up completely
> the wrong tree?

I think you meant:

def listDirectories(root):
    return [f for f in os.listdir(root) if os.path.isdir(f)]

-Andrew.





From ais_rajesh at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 20 21:02:00 2003
From: ais_rajesh at yahoo.com (Rajesh Sudarsan)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:02:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python Mega widget doubt.
Message-ID: <20030621010200.57615.qmail@web41612.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,
Some one who replied to my following posting misunderstood the question. I know there is a getValue function to read the values of the Entry Widget. My situation is as follows:
 
I am working on a software tool which has different GUI windows for different menu items. And each GUI windows appears on the right side of the tool whenever it is clicked. All the widgets on each GUI window is created by parsing through individual XML files. All the above thing take place during loading of the tool. After loading, if I want to change the default value of a particular Entrywidget inside a particular GUI window, how can I get the handle for that particular GUI window so that I can access the EntryWidget.
 
I think my previous questions was little ambiguous.  If you do not understand my question, I will be glad to explain it again.
 
Thanx,
Rajesh
 
***************************************************************************************
 
Hi,
I am using PMW for creating a GUI. The input is given through XML file. A class parses through the XML file and creates the GUI using the PMW. The GUI consists of EntryWidgets and combo boxes. This is carried out at loading time. Now at runtime, when I change the value of these Entry Fields , how do I read these values? There are multiple XML files and hence multiple windows are created ..
Please help..
Regards,
Rajesh



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From i at mindlace.net  Wed Jun 18 13:35:32 2003
From: i at mindlace.net (emf)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:35:32 -0700
Subject: unit tests with mod_python
Message-ID: <2147483647.1055932532@[10.0.1.2]>

Hi,

I am experimenting with test driven development. I'm working with 
mod_python, however, and of course you can't import apache from 
mod_python outside of actually running within apache.

Before I reinvent the wheel, has anyone written a mod_python simulacrum 
for use in unit tests - one that provides, at a minimum, a faux request 
object and the other attributes (like apache.OK) needed to run in a 
pretend environment?

Alternately, has anyone set up a way to drive requests from unittest?

~mindlace
http://mindlace.net




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jun 29 20:07:30 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 09:57:30 +0950
Subject: console mp3->wav decoder for $indows or GUI one which supports console
References: <bdnvc9$ktc$1@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <slrnbfv0vi.vc1.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:13:07 +1100, Egor Bolonev wrote:
> I'm seeking a subj.

We're seeking a descriptive message body.

-- 
 \      "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I |
  `\      like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."  -- |
_o__)                                                    Bilbo Baggins |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From david at snsys.com  Tue Jun  3 08:42:46 2003
From: david at snsys.com (David Stubbs)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:42:46 +0100
Subject: Detect hung apps spawned from python
References: <3edb494b$0$12997$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3edc97c9$0$13735$afc38c87@news.easynet.co.uk>

Thanks for your help. I decided to go the Win32 way. Here's my solution...

---
PROCESS_STILL_RUNNING = 259
def run_script(test_dir, timeout = 2):
    timeout = timeout * 60 # Convert the timeout param from minutes to
seconds
    os.chdir(test_dir)
    pinfo = win32process.CreateProcess(
        None, 'python.exe "' + test_dir + '\\test.py"', None, None, 0, 0,
        None, None, win32process.STARTUPINFO())

    retval = PROCESS_STILL_RUNNING
    while retval == PROCESS_STILL_RUNNING:
        time.sleep(0.25)
        timeout = timeout - 0.25
        if timeout <= 0:
            win32process.TerminateProcess(pinfo[0], 1)
            print "ERROR: Process timeout"
            break
        retval = win32process.GetExitCodeProcess(pinfo[0])
    os.chdir("..\\")
    return retval
---

Regards,
Dave Stubbs.

"David Stubbs" <david at snsys.com> wrote in message
news:3edb494b$0$12997$afc38c87 at news.easynet.co.uk...
> Hi,
>
> I have a python app that builds a list of all subdirectories from the
> current directory, and then in turn runs a 'test.py' script from within
each
> of these directories. I currently do this using os.system(). Is there any
> easy way of detecting apps that crashed, and terminating them if so?
Ideally
> being able to set a time-out to wait for the application to finish would
be
> good.
>
> I think I could do it using CreateProcess, but, well, it just seems like
> overkill and that there'll be a much simpler method somewhere.
>
> Thanks,
> Dave.
>
>





From barry at python.org  Sun Jun 29 21:57:43 2003
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: 29 Jun 2003 21:57:43 -0400
Subject: RELEASED: Python 2.3b2
Message-ID: <1056938263.5689.25.camel@geddy>

Python 2.3b2 is the second beta release of Python 2.3.  There have be a
slew of fixes since the first beta, and a few new "features".  Our goal
is to have a final Python 2.3 release by early August, so we encourage
lots of testing for this beta.  Highlights since beta 1 include:

- IDLEfork has been merged in and now replaces the old IDLE.

- The Windows installer now ships with Tcl/Tk 8.4.3.

- list.index() has grown optional `start' and `end' arguments.

- A new C-only API function PyThreadState_SetAsyncExc() which can be
  used to interrupt threads by sending them exceptions.

- Python programs can enter the interactive prompt at program exit by 
  setting the PYTHONINSPECT environment variable.

- Many new doctest improvements, including the ability to write doctest
  based unit tests.

- New and improved documentation for writing new types in C that 
  participate in cyclic garbage collection.

There is at least one known bug: we have seen crashes on both Windows
and Linux with certain interactions between test_logging and
test_bsddb3.  We intend to fix this for the next release. 

For more highlights, see http://www.python.org/2.3/highlights.html

Other new stuff since Python 2.2:

- Many new and improved library modules, e.g. sets, heapq, datetime,
  textwrap, optparse, logging, bsddb, bz2, tarfile,
  ossaudiodev, and a new random number generator based on the highly
  acclaimed Mersenne Twister algorithm (with a period of 2**19937-1!).

- New builtin enumerate(): an iterator yielding (index, item) pairs.

- Extended slices, e.g. "hello"[::-1] returns "olleh".

- Universal newlines mode for reading files (converts \r, \n and \r\n
  all into \n).

- Source code encoding declarations.  (PEP 263)

- Import from zip files.  (PEP 273 and PEP 302)

- FutureWarning issued for "unsigned" operations on ints.  (PEP 237)

- Faster list.sort() is now stable.

- Unicode filenames on Windows.

- Karatsuba long multiplication (running time O(N**1.58) instead of
  O(N**2)).

If you have an important Python application, we strongly recommend that
you try it out with a beta release and report any incompatibilities or
other problems you may encounter, so that they can be fixed before the
final release.  To report problems, use the SourceForge bug tracker:

  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470

Enjoy,
-Barry






From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 25 13:29:19 2003
From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:29:19 -0700
Subject: add empty directory using zipfile?
Message-ID: <rsmjfvkmc2s46abk236uao8malat1t7q83@4ax.com>

Can I add empty directory using zipfile? When I try to add a directory
it complains that it is not a file.

tung



From tireseas at onetel.com  Fri Jun 20 11:45:16 2003
From: tireseas at onetel.com (valhalla)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:45:16 +0100
Subject: Using OS time
In-Reply-To: <20030620152602.22899.77521.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20030620152602.22899.77521.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <200306201645.16587.tireseas@onetel.com>

Hello

I asked this query of the Tutor list and was told that Python probably didn't 
have a solution, and that I should use the OS. I want to cast my question net 
a little further, hence my asking this question here.

The problem:
I am writing a rather simple guessing game (a random number is generated, user 
has to guess the number).
I am wanting to introduce a time-limit on the game-play so that the user has - 
e.g. 60 seconds - within which to guess the correct number otherwise they 
lose.

The question:
I was hoping to use something out of the time module but could find no 
function to do that kind of thing. I was pointed in the direction of 
importing my OS (Linux) time. 
1. Would this accomplish what I am wanting to as described above?
2. If so, can someone point me in the direction of some decent docs on how I 
could set this up.

I am positive that there must be a relatively straight forward solution, but 
right now I can't see the wood for the trees and would appreciate a different 
perspective please.

Cheers
Andy



-- 
====================
||  Reg. Linux User: 313143 ||
====================
Sign the Petition:
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/endtcpa1/




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Thu Jun 12 13:46:45 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:46:45 -0400
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vehf3d38h6tn85@news.supernews.com>

"Manuel Garcia" <news at manuelmgarcia.com> wrote in message
news:arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce at 4ax.com...
> If anyone ever asks for what good are 'lambda' and 'reduce', show them
> this...
>
> print (lambda p:p[0]+'.'+p[1:])(
>     str((lambda(x,y,t,a):2L*x*x//a)(
>         (lambda F:(lambda S:reduce(
>             lambda(x,y,t,a),_:((x+y)//2L,
>                 S((x*y)//F),2L*t,
>                 (a-(t*(((x+y)//2L)**2-
>                        (S((x*y)//F))**2))//F)),
>             [0]*13,(F,(F*F)//S(2L*F),2L,F//2L)))(
>                 lambda n:reduce(lambda x,_:(
>                     x-x//2L+(n*F)//(2L*x)),
>                 [0]*15,
>                 n//2L)))(10L**(5010))))[:5000])
>
> You have to be a bit patient with this one...

One thing is perfectly clear. Unless someone paid
me to do it, I wouldn't look at it. And part of
the agreement would be to refactor it into something
at least marginally readable.

John Roth
>
> Manuel





From ebolonev at mail.ru  Sun Jun 29 19:27:52 2003
From: ebolonev at mail.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:27:52 +1100
Subject: strings
References: <bdnqrj$j72$2@news.rol.ru> <3eff7487$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <bdnsm4$jua$1@news.rol.ru>

> > Hi All!
> >
> > I have a
> > 'Pink Floyd/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00'
> > and I want a
> > 'Pink Floyd'
> > How can I manage it?
> >
> > This one isn't work.
> > author=f.read(30).replace('\0',' ').rstrip() #from mp3 tag
> >
>
> That is weird. Are you sure? It works on my system:
> (BTW: I think you mean \x00 instead of /x00)
>
>  >>> a='Pink Floyd\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'
>  >>> a
> 'Pink Floyd\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'
>  >>> a.replace('\0',' ').rstrip()
> 'Pink Floyd'
>  >>>

Yes it's weird. The Interactive window of PythonWin shows it correct, but
debugger window is not.:-(






From jgrossberg at matrixgroup.net  Wed Jun 11 14:19:23 2003
From: jgrossberg at matrixgroup.net (Joe Grossberg)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:19:23 -0400
Subject: Need urgent solution......................
In-Reply-To: <20030611181102.5745.84605.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20030611181102.5745.84605.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE772AB.8030305@matrixgroup.net>

We know your time is important. So is ours. Please post with a more 
informative title next time (e.g. "How do I determine pixel width of 
text in a Tkinter canvas?", and you'll be more likely to get helpful 
answers.

More info here:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#bespecific

Good luck,
Joe

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------
Joe Grossberg :: Programmer :: jgrossberg at matrixgroup.net
http://www.matrixmaxx.net/ :: Custom Web Solutions and 
Web-Based Association Management Software.






From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jun  9 10:12:40 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 07:12:40 -0700
Subject: solving the metaclass conflict
References: <2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7@posting.google.com> <25b5433d.0306071443.63b27df6@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0306080334.329fa409@posting.google.com> <25b5433d.0306081024.517d855e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306090612.6b85448d@posting.google.com>

pje at telecommunity.com (Phillip J. Eby) wrote in message news:<25b5433d.0306081024.517d855e at posting.google.com>...

> Under Python 2.2, you can't mix a new-style class with 'type' (and not
> cause Python to core-dump when you inspect the resulting class!).  So
> if you want to create a mixin that can be used with 'type' as well as
> other kinds of classes, you *have* to use a classic class.

I misinterpreted you, you are saying that the *class*  cannot be
inspected, not the metaclass. You are indeed right:

class N(object): pass
class M(N,type): pass
class C: __metaclass__=M
help(C) # core dump under Python 2.2

Fortunately, this is not the case for Python 2.3, therefore I don't
see the reason to support explicitely old style classes.

Cheers,

                                                   Michele



From anthony at interlink.com.au  Wed Jun 25 12:30:39 2003
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 02:30:39 +1000
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ... 
In-Reply-To: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com> 
References: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com>  
Message-ID: <200306251630.h5PGUdeO003123@localhost.localdomain>

>>> Gobo Borz wrote
> I remember reading somewhere that building the string with successive 
> "+=" statements is inefficient, but I don't know any alternatives, and 
> my search attempts came up empty. Is there a better, more efficient way 
> to do it than this:
> 
> #---------------------------------
> htmlPage = "<html><header></header><body>"
> htmlPage += "more html"
> ...
> htmlPage += "even more html"
> ...
> htmlPage += "</body></html>"
> print htmlPage
> #-------------------------------------

Instead, build up a list of strings, then join them all at
the end - this way, the system only has to allocate the
space once. Much quicker.

 #---------------------------------
 htmlPage = []
 htmlPage.append("<html><header></header><body>")
 htmlPage.append("more html")
 ...
 htmlPage.append("even more html")
 ...
 htmlPage.append("</body></html>")
 page = ''.join(htmlPage)
 print page
 #-------------------------------------

Anthony




From jerf at jerf.org  Wed Jun 11 17:35:47 2003
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:35:47 GMT
Subject: list.remove(): bug ??
References: <bc7ql8$72a$1@demo2.univ-lyon1.fr>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.12.17.35.26.528365@jerf.org>

On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:52:52 +0200, Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
> liste = ['foo1' , 'foo2', 'foo3', 'foo4', 'foo5' ]
> for i in liste:
>    if i == 'foo2':
>      liste.remove( i )
>    else:
>      print i

Metacomment: Others have already explained why this happens; I'd suggest
never, ever, ever doing this, not even a little. Modifying the list you're
currently iterating on is always prone to error, because it can be very
difficult to mentally model what's going on once the program gets any
larger then "trivial". (God help you if you start modifying the list
somewhere *other* then where you're currently iterating, or more then one
entry per loop...)

If you just mean to *skip* the 'foo2', you want (where I use "l" instead
of "liste", which is less prone to dropping the 'e' off th end ;-) ):

for i in l:
    if i != 'foo2':
       print i

If you mean to *remove* the foo2, what's probably best is

newlist = [x for x in l if x != 'foo2']

(Of course in this case it's obvious that l.remove('foo2') has identical
behavior if there's one and only one 'foo2' in l; I'm assuming you're
using 'foo2' as a placeholder for some sort of real condition.)

You don't really want to get into this habit, it'll bite hard someday. And
Python makes it so easy to do right... ;-)



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Tue Jun 17 20:26:13 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 01:26:13 +0100
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com> <bcnova$ma5$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <bcnpei$96r$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <bco0f3$jvp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <yfsznkg9wvx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <slrnbev66f.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <yfsr85s9qoq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> writes:

> On 17 Jun 2003 23:12:18 +0100, Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> > I am not a lawyer, but my reading is that this gives the FSF a fair
> > amount of control under what conditions *MY* GPL'ed code is available
> > -- if they publish a new version, my code is automatically licensed
> > under it -- even if I don't happen to agree with those changes. Wrong?
> 
> Yes, wrong.
> 
> You are recommended to state the distribution terms as "under the terms
> of the GNU General Public License, either version 2 of the license, or,
> at your option, any later version" which has an effect similar to what
> you're saying; i.e. that the code with such distribution terms can be
> re-licensed under a new version of the GPL (but only the ones made by
> the FSF) by downstream distributors, at their option.
> 
> However, this statement is not part of the license itself; it's up to
> you.  There's nothing to stop you stating the terms as "under the terms
> of the GNU General Public License, version 2."  This fixes the
> distribution license and gives no option to change it to anything else.
> 
> Here's what the FSF have to say about the "Version 2 or later"
> recommendation:
> 
>     <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#VersionTwoOrLater>

Thanks for the link. So while this is not mandatory, you are still strongly
encouraged to use the GPL in a way that requires a bit of faith in the
continued well-intent of the FSF.

'as



From ejy712 at comcast.net  Sat Jun  7 08:58:27 2003
From: ejy712 at comcast.net (Ed Young)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 08:58:27 -0400
Subject: Twisted Question
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.07.12.58.26.818464@comcast.net>

I am researching using Twisted as the underlying engine for
an application to application data transporter (queueing).

I need to be able to have a short process start at timed
intervals which is able to start outbound socket connections.
It needs to start a client connection to another server.

How do I get a process to start at timed intervals that is a
part of the Twisted framework?  I haven't been able to get
this from the manual or API reference provided by Twisted.



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Fri Jun 20 16:27:09 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:27:09 +0200
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <bcvoho$n8e2g$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
References: <mailman.1056133597.28230.python-list@python.org> <bcvoho$n8e2g$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3ef36e1a$0$49108$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Cousin Stanley wrote:
> My opinion of XML is that instead of stuff
> that looks like this ....
> 
>     <Granny wants to know if you REALLY liked her Hei?e Himbeeren>
>     Y
>     </Granny wants to know if you REALLY liked her Hei?e Himbeeren>
> 
> I'd rather have a Cobol record layout ...
> 

LOL!!

Also note that spaces in an xml tag are not allowed ;-)

--Irmen




From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Jun 20 13:36:18 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 18:36:18 +0100
Subject: Newbie on importing
References: <68a42404.0306200929.6043eef0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87brws648d.fsf@pobox.com>

michaeljwhitmore at netscape.net (Michael J Whitmore) writes:

> Just read the Python tutorial looking for the answer to this question?
>  What is the difference between (from sys import *) and (import sys). 
> I am aware that the last imported module's functions overwrite any
> identically named functions of previous modules.

Only if you do actually import them.


import sys

Imports the module named 'sys'.


from sys import *

Imports all names from sys (including names referring to functions).


John



From sean at datamage.net  Sun Jun  1 12:37:55 2003
From: sean at datamage.net (Sean Legassick)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 18:37:55 +0200
Subject: Request for feedback on my first Python program
References: <MPG.194096b51af188bb9896f0@news.hevanet.com>
 <slrnbdeevn.694.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net>
 <mailman.1054429562.11692.python-list@python.org>
 <bbd83g$aiu$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <NUM5avBjvi2+EAAH@bamboo.datamage.net>

In message <bbd83g$aiu$1 at panix1.panix.com>, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> 
writes
>It is *NOT* redundant; it is making clear that True/False are the only
>possible return values.  With your rewrite, reading and understanding
>the code is necessary to clarify the intent.

Eeek. I know python is supposed to be readable, but you seem to be 
suggesting that it's useful to convey information to someone who can't 
read a simple boolean expression.

If you really need that level of self-documentation, I would put it in a 
comment / docstring, not in redundant code.

Sean

-- 
Sean K. Legassick
sean at datamage.net
         informage - http://informage.net - mouthing off from the fairest cape





From ray at rays-web.com  Thu Jun 12 19:55:45 2003
From: ray at rays-web.com (Ray Smith)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 16:55:45 -0700
Subject: long-term release schedule?
References: <mailman.1054692908.26987.python-list@python.org> <5654fff9.0306112203.6aa1ef99@posting.google.com> <bc9is2$fr0$1@pith.uoregon.edu>
Message-ID: <5654fff9.0306121555.4c214e92@posting.google.com>

"Yan Weng" <yweng at cs.uoregon.edu> wrote in message news:<bc9is2$fr0

> The core of python still needs to enhanced.
> + byte code optimize
>    |- The current CISC like byte code may be not the best choice.
> + Speed improvement needed for scientific computing.
> + Static analysis tools needed to reduce error-finding time for commercial
> products.

Your first 2 points indicate speed as an issue.  For a large percentage of 
tasks Python seems fast enough as it is. Like everything it would be nice if
it was quicker :) but will this constrain the growth of Python????

I wouldn't put "static analysis tools" into thre "Core Python language" basket.
(but would be useful in large projects)
 
 
> Utilities needed to improve.
> + IDE: VB before VB.Net is a pretty bad language but it still gets a lot of
> users. Why? It has
>             a convient IDE making implementing some typical tasks easily.

An IDE (like for example BOA, PythonCard etc) can be developed externally to 
the Python Core Language.
 
> Python need to be *very* successful in "some areas" to gain the attention of
> the IT industry.
>     |- Testing, Scientific computing and Web applications seem the potential
>  areas.
>     |- The enough support from big companies will garantee the time of the
> best python programmers.
>         Recently, I checked out the websites of some good python
> programmers. I found their economic status are not good. If a person can't
> feed up their family. How can you ask them to contribute more time on the
> free things?
> 
> Just some thoughts.

I guess the "angle" of my question was it Guido and his team didn't get 
commercial backing to continue development of Python how would it effect the
growth and commercial support of Python??
My guess is enough people would be around to keep bug fixes going and the
real value of Python is now becoming all the external libraries???

Regards,

Ray Smith



From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Mon Jun 16 12:06:14 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:06:14 -0600
Subject: popen2.Popen3 on Windows
In-Reply-To: <v1qrev8vokng7f6bhi6dudphbpkuvjoe80@4ax.com>
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <m1tpevcasprfdirat1h3mg1go5atq4vsst@4ax.com> <3eecfae8$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <v1qrev8vokng7f6bhi6dudphbpkuvjoe80@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030616160614.D0AB3343BE@www.fastmail.fm>

Hi,

I need a way to run an external command, grab its output (stdout,stderr)
and get a return status for the command.  It seems like popen2.Popen3
(Note the upper case "P") is the way to do this, but it only works on
unix.  Is there a way to get this info on Windows?

Thanks.
-Justin




From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jun 11 17:41:00 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:41:00 -0700
Subject: Looking for the greatest negative float value
References: <bc7lvb$gm3$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr> <bc82gc$naf$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <mailman.1055364561.4403.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE7A1EC.6D94A440@alcyone.com>

"Mike C. Fletcher" wrote:

> Uh, that's a really-really small number that's vanishingly larger than
> 0.0, negative exponents make fractions, not large negative numbers...

Well, the original poster _did_ ask for the "greatest negative float
value."  That would be -epsilon.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The public is a fool.
\__/  Alexander Pope



From husam at macrozon.net  Tue Jun 17 13:09:27 2003
From: husam at macrozon.net (Husam)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:09:27 +0200
Subject: Newbie: Where to start with cgi?
Message-ID: <bcni8a$8tl$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl>

Hi,
I'm trying to use python as the core infrastructure for my web site. So for,
I setup apache to work with python, and build some test pages with python
scripts as an interface for my MySql-based web site. The problem is I don't
know how or where to start to learn building python scripts that are secure
and robust. In other words, I lack the know-how and I'm not aware of the Ins
and Outs of such technology. The tutorials on the web hepls you set up
things and it stops at the most interesting point leaving you at your own to
find out how things are programmed in the real world.
I will be very happy if someone can give an advice or anything helpfull.

Thanks in advance.






From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jun 13 12:35:30 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:35:30 -0500
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
In-Reply-To: <a8b7f07a.0306130823.66cce51a@posting.google.com>
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
        <2259b0e2.0306110926.27c4412b@posting.google.com>
        <mailman.1055379262.15114.python-list@python.org>
        <2259b0e2.0306120901.2a535e6@posting.google.com>
        <mailman.1055460477.3070.python-list@python.org>
        <bcbc8b$hf4ub$3@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
        <a8b7f07a.0306130823.66cce51a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16105.64850.217717.194095@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Lloyd> In fact I'd be just as happy to see the option to omit the
    Lloyd> parentheses go away altogether.

Alas, it's not currently an option.

Skip




From simonb at webone.com.au  Fri Jun 13 23:30:36 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 13:30:36 +1000
Subject: ANN: PyPov-0.0.1
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.14.03.30.36.3003@webone.com.au>

PyPov

Here is a relatively simple framework for making povray files from your
favourite programming language, python.
It's good for creating structured/mathematical scenes and animations.

http://arrowtheory.com/software/python/pypov/index.html

Tutorial

###########################
# Some examples.

Sphere( (0,0,0), 1, color=(1,1,1) )

Union( Sphere(v1,r), Sphere(v2,r) )

# To change/set named args:

torus = Torus( 4, 1 )
torus.rotate = 90*x # x is actually a Vector instance 

# And unnamed args via their index (untested):

torus[0] = 8 # bigger now 

# Use the File object to output these to a pov file.

file = File( "out.pov" )
torus.write(file)
torus.rotate = 90 * x
torus.write(file) # another torus 

# Here is a complete example for a chain of spheres:

def test04():
  cam = Camera(
    location=(0,0,-10),
    look_at=(100.0,0.0,0.0),
    angle=30 )
  light = LightSource((300,300,-1000),color=(1,1,1))
  spheres = [ Sphere( (2*i,0,0), 1, Pigment(color=(1,1,1)) )
    for i in range(400) ]
  file = File( "spheres.pov", cam, light, *spheres )


# Simon Burton.




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jun  5 10:01:55 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:01:55 +0100
Subject: try..yield..finally problem: a proposed solution.
References: <3EDF1FCD.2D107B0@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054811050.10100.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EDF4D53.9010B122@hotmail.com>

[Alan Kennedy]

>> After thinking about this some more, I've come to the conclusion
that explicitly
>> raising "Finality" is the best solution to the try..yield..finally
problem, like
>> so:
>>
>> #--------------------------------
>>
>> class Finality(Exception): pass
>>
>> try:
>>     yield somefunc()
>>     raise Finality
>> except Finality:
>>     print "And finally"
>> except:
>>     print "An exception occurred"
>>
>> #--------------------------------

[Andrew Bennetts]

> A much shorter way to write this is:
>
>     try:
>         yield somefunc()
>         print "And finally"
>     except:
>         print "An exception occurred"

D'oh! Of course it is, thanks Andrew.

I knew I should have just replied to the original thread, and thus
maintained its context, rather than creating a new thread :-|

The problem is when "finally" processing is required, regardless of
whether there is an exception or not. I should have also provided two
different versions of somefunc for which the code would be expected to
work, one which raises an exception and one which does not.

def somefunc():
    return 1/1

and

def somefunc():
    return 1/0

In the case where an exception is raised by somefunc(), the suggested
improvement (to my unclear statement of the problem) does not work. It
does operate correctly when there is no exception, i.e.

def something():
    return 1/1

def finfunc():
    try:
        try:
            # Risky code, e.g.
            yield something()
            print "Finally"
        except:
            print "Got an exception"
    except:
        print "Outer exception handling"

for state in finfunc():
    pass

And produces the same results as how the code would be rewritten using
a Finality exception:-

def something():
    return 1/1

class Finality(Exception): pass

def finfunc():
    try:
        try:
            # Risky code, e.g.
            yield something()
            raise Finality
        except Exception, x:
            print "Finally"
            raise x
    except Finality:
        pass
    except:
        print "Outer exception handling"

for state in finfunc():
    pass

but does not produce the same results when something() generates an
exception, e.g.

def something():
    return 1/0

Now, in the Finality based one, the "finally" code gets executed, but
in the former code, it doesn't. But that's my fault: I misstated the
problem.

> But a better idiom (and still shorter) is:
>
>     try:
>         yield somefunc()
>     except:
>         print "An exception occurred"
>     else:
>         print "And finally"

Also true. But also not related to the problem I should have stated,
which is how to structure generator code so that the cleanup code
always gets executed. In this case, the "else" code is only executed
when there is no exception.

> It also doesn't have the same meaning as a finally block, which is
*always*
> executed upon leaving its corresponding try block, regardless of the
> presence (or absence) of an exception.

As I should have properly stated the problem.

> A more accurate substitute would be:
>
>     exc = None
>     try:
>         yield somefunc()
>     except:
>         exc = sys.exc_info()
>
>     print "finally"
>     if exc:
>         raise exc[0], exc[1], exc[2]

A very interesting alternative.

> But notice that a yield itself can't raise an exception, so you
could in
> fact do:
>
>     try:
>         x = somefunc()
>     finally:
>         print "finally"
>
>     yield x

Again, a good alternative.

But which doesn't address the problem of multiple yields inside
something like a semi-coroutine. For example, how could one code the
original posters problem, which was how to do something like this:

try:
   sock = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM);
   try:
      sock.setblocking(0); yield stage.done(0)
      try:
         sock.connect((self.host, self.port)); yield stage.done(1)
         yield newComponent([self.setupCSA(sock)])
         while self.waitCSAClose():
            yield stage.current(2)
         yield stage.done(2)
      finally:
         result = s.shutdown(1) ; yield stage.done(3)
   finally:
      sock.close() ; yield stage.done(4)
except error, e:
   # Would handle error more interestingly here
   print stage.lastdone, e

#---------------------

I think that putting the risky code into separate functions, and
saving the results in temporary variables for later 'yield'ing would
be cumbersome, and may not work at all in some situations. And would
also do away with the benefits of using a generator, because it
introduces a standard function call for every yield statement.

Starting again ;-)

I think the core of the problem I was trying to address is: that a
simple and clear method is required for implementing finally style
processing using generators, IFF one is prepared to *guarantee* that
the generator will be sufficiently resumed.

So, restating the proposed solution, with fully specified code

#------------------------------

import random

class Finality(Exception): pass

def finfunc():
    try:
        try:
            # Risky code, e.g.
            for i in range(10):
                x = 1/int(random.random()*10)
                yield x
            print "Successful processing"
            raise Finality
        except Exception, x:
            print "Finally"
            raise x
    except Finality:
        pass
    except Exception, x:
        print "Told you that code was risky, didn't I?: %s" % str(x)

for v in finfunc():
    print v

#------------------------------

I believe this to be the optimal^H^H^H^H^H^H^H a good solution to the
problem of achieving finally-style processing, combined with exception
processing, in a way that is familiar and easy-to-use, i.e. it
operates the same as a try..finally clause, IFF the user guarantees
that the generator will be resumed. The reasons why I think it is a
good solution are

1. The "finally" keyword is not used, therefore no promises or
contracts are broken.

2. The user is *explicitly* made responsible for ensuring that their
generator is resumed as far as the "raise Finality" statement. We all
know that explicit is better than implicit. If the user does not
resume into the generator and thus fails to explicitly "raise Finality",
then their "finally" clauses simply don't get executed.

3. It achieves the intended purpose clearly and concisely, and doesn't
involve any changes to the language syntax or semantics.

I am humbly sorry for any confusion, Andrew. I should have replied to
the original thread, rather than create a new one.

regards,

--
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From matthew.rapoport at accenture.com  Tue Jun  3 12:33:17 2003
From: matthew.rapoport at accenture.com (Matt Rapoport)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 09:33:17 -0700
Subject: Passing an Event from a Thread to its Caller
References: <4150f6c8.0306021120.7b70d981@posting.google.com> <xQUCa.3253$7E.37896@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <4150f6c8.0306030833.2dd4fc9b@posting.google.com>

Mark, thank you very much for your reply.  I think I understand what
you're saying but the part I'm not so sure about is how do I get my
thread to trigger the event.

The thread just creates an object that I wrote called "client". 
Basically all I want is for the client to pass errors up to my service
so that I can log them.  Can I set an event in the client code and
wait for it in the service code?  Or should I alter the client's
constructor to accept an event so that I can have the service pass the
event to it?

Is this making any sense?  Thanks again for the help.

Matt



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jun 12 01:42:48 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 05:42:48 GMT
Subject: DOM text to xml aarrgghhh!!!!
References: <78cae312.0306111724.1a3e433f@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055383590.22835.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc93so$5rj$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:59:50 -0600, Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

>Quoth huntermorgan:
>  [...]
>> can anybody help???? below is the code and below that is a small
>> snipet of the course outline
>
>Excellent problem report!
>
>I was only able to duplicate your problem if I munged the tab
>characters in the text into spaces (which I did quite
>accidentally).  Without tabs,
>
>>     tagSequence = re.compile("(^\d+)\t+")
>
>never matches, so of course the document is empty.
>
>If tabs are present as the text of your note indicates, the result
>on my machine is not what you report -- an XML document with just
>a root node -- but an exception.  (A NameError, to be precise.)
>If that's fixed, there's an exception for having too many root
>elements in the XML document.  Since you don't report any of this,
>I assume you're seeing a tab-munging problem or some such.
>
>A quick and dirty way to start figuring out what's wrong: add
>
>        s = line
>        print 'processing line:', repr(s)      # this
>        target = tagSequence.search(s)
>        print 'target is', repr(target)        # and this
>
>to the code and run it again.
>
>(I'm a bit surprised, btw, that
>    rootElement = newdocument.createElement("2003 Course Outline")
>works, since that's not a legal element name in XML.  You'll have
>trouble trying to parse this file.)
>
The OP might want to use element names for document parts and put
the space-containing target stuff, stripped, as associated attribute values
with an appropriate attribute name. Is that too much hinting beyond yours? ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jun  4 12:08:10 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 09:08:10 -0700
Subject: Metasyntax/Macros
References: <2ae25c6b.0305140003.dbd812e@posting.google.com> <a8b7f07a.0305141356.344f0e69@posting.google.com> <2ae25c6b.0305271100.77be6881@posting.google.com> <a8b7f07a.0305271323.155d52c9@posting.google.com> <3ED52BAE.5050704@blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT> <3ED52C50.3020002@blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306040808.1d737a54@posting.google.com>

Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy <paddy3118 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT> wrote in message news:<3ED52C50.3020002 at blueyonder.co.ukNOTthisBIT>...

<snip>

> Anyone for meta-macro programming ;-)

The subject of macros come often in this newgroup. I've got 
the impression that it is not difficult to implement them, the 
problem is that the developers DON'T WANT them. I think they are 
most probably right. Nevertheless, I have just finished an
experimental
project with the purpose of adding a macro facility to Python (it was 
a proof of concept for me). This is done via a pure Python module,
called (according to the Principle of Minimal Surprise ;) 'macro.py'.
At the moment, it is still little tested, but it works along the
following
lines:

1. In order to define a macro, the user has to supply a template
function,
i.e. is a function that takes as arguments Python expressions in
string
format and returns as output a string Python expression (or
statement).
In the present implementation I have forced the time-honored
convention
that macros/template functions are all capitals.
An example is the following:

  #<example1.py>

  def PRINT(*args):
      "The arguments are strings; returns a print statement"
      return "print "+','.join(['"%s =",%s' % (a,a) for a in args])

  #</example1.py>

PRINT works as follows:

  >>> from example1 import PRINT
  >>> PRINT()
  'print '
  >>> PRINT('x')
  'print "x =",x'
  >>> PRINT('x','y') # etc.
  'print "x =",x,"y =",y'

2. In order to use the macro (the macro evaluate the output of the
template
function) the user has to write it inside a function or inside a
class;
the function or the class are then explicitly interpreted by using the
command 'expand' in the 'macro' module, which expands the template
function.
This is an example of usage:

  #<example1.py>

  import macro

  def print_x(x):
      PRINT(x) # will expand --> print "x=",x 

  expanded_print_x=macro.expand(print_x) 

  #</example1.py>

3. At this point, in ``expanded_print_x`` the macro PRINT(x) is
effectively
expanded to ``print "x=",x`` and calling the function gives the result

  >>> from example1 import expanded_print_x
  >>> expanded_print_x(1)
  x = 1

4. Since using macro.expand repetitively can be annoying, I have
provided a metaclass facility. When a class has a ``__metaclass__ =
macro.expand()`` attribute, macros are automagically expanded in all 
its methods and attributes, and in its derived classes, too.

  #<example2.py>

  import macro,example1

  class B(object):
      __metaclass__=macro.expand()

  class C(B): # macros are automagically expanded
      def __init__(self,x=None):
          example1.PRINT(x) # --> print "x=",x 

  #</example2.py>

  >>> from example2 import C
  >>> c=C()
  x = None

It works also for macros containing other macros (but 
not for recursive macros). 
Consider for instance the following ternary operator

  #<example3.py>

  def IF(cond,e1,e2):
      return '(%s and [%s] or [%s])[0]' % (cond,e1,e2)

  #</example3.py>

It can be composed with PRINT as in the following script:

  #<example3.py>
  
  from example1 import PRINT,macro

  def print_ternary():
      PRINT(IF(True,1,0)) # --> IF(True,1,0) = 1

  print_ternary=macro.expand(print_ternary)

  #</example3.py>

Here is how it works:

  >>> from example3 import print_ternary
  >>> print_ternary()
  IF ( True , 1 , 0 ) = 1

I wonder if this approach could satisfy your requirements.

My module is still experimental and not for distribution; as I said,
the principal interest to me was to show that implementing macros IN
SOME WAY in pure Python is indeed possible with a reasonable amount of
effort.
However, implementing them WELL is a completely different story and I
expect
it to be extremely difficult ;)

Cheers,

--
Michele Simionato - Dept. of Physics and Astronomy
210 Allen Hall Pittsburgh PA 15260 U.S.A.
Phone: 001-412-624-9041 Fax: 001-412-624-9163
Home-page: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jun 17 22:45:00 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:45:00 -0700
Subject: [OT] (was: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?)
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com> <Xns939D3EC4C9004JanC@213.119.4.94> <20030617063032.612B.KLAPOTEC@nusurf.at> <Xns939DABD5AD4CJanC@213.119.4.94> <3EEF3F2B.6BA5BA72@engcorp.com> <Xns939E2E07D8A6EJanC@213.119.4.94>
Message-ID: <3EEFD22C.93B58AE3@alcyone.com>

JanC wrote:

> I was talking about cars with "explosion engines" (or how do you call
> that
> in correct English ;)

Internal combustion engines.  Or, at least, I hope so :-).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names.
\__/  John F. Kennedy



From tismer at tismer.com  Mon Jun 16 05:44:31 2003
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:44:31 +0200
Subject: Twisted
In-Reply-To: <3EDB4D61.8341855B@engcorp.com>
References: <bb8pev$nqh$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>	 <bb8u91$7594h$1@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.1054365886.2125.python-list@python.org> <3EDB4D61.8341855B@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3EED917F.8010301@tismer.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> David Mertz wrote:
> 
>>Gerhard =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E4ring?= <gh at ghaering.de> wrote previously:
>>|As I said, they overly advertise Twisted. The reason is they're quite
>>|enthusiastic about it. I personally like Twisted, too. If only I could
>>|find an application that would lend itself to the asynchronous model ;-)
>>
>>I suppose I'm pretty guilty of the same sin.  I've never used an IRC, so
>>no sinfulness on that channel.  But if you check the history of my posts
>>to this group, I'm sure it shows a disproportionate number of plugs for
>>my own software or articles as a solution to discussed problems (and not
>>so many suggestions for other developers quite excellent libraries).
>>
>>Along those lines, I think Chris Tismer has some Stackless guilt; David
>>Goodger about reST; Greg Ewing over PLEX; and so on.  
> 
> 
> You forget that worst-of-the-worst, Mr. van Rossum himself, who has
> mercilessly plugged Python endlessly for years now, forcing it on
> all of us, including the OP who is clearly so brainwashed that he didn't
> even realize the irony in his post.  

ROTFLMAO -- great reasoning !-)

guilty! -ly y'rs -- chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  pager +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jun 18 17:34:10 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:34:10 +0200
Subject: [OT]
In-Reply-To: <Xns939ED7512C449JanC@213.119.4.94>
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com> <Xns939D3EC4C9004JanC@213.119.4.94> <20030617063032.612B.KLAPOTEC@nusurf.at> <Xns939DABD5AD4CJanC@213.119.4.94> <3EEF3F2B.6BA5BA72@engcorp.com> <Xns939E2E07D8A6EJanC@213.119.4.94> <3EEFD22C.93B58AE3@alcyone.com> <Xns939ED7512C449JanC@213.119.4.94>
Message-ID: <3ef0dacf$0$49109$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

JanC wrote:
> Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> schreef:
> 
> 
>>>I was talking about cars with "explosion engines" (or how do you call
>>>that in correct English ;)
>>
>>Internal combustion engines.  Or, at least, I hope so :-).
> 
> 
> Yeah, I could have checked a dictionary, but at 4:30 in the morning...  ;-)
> 
> It's called an "explosiemotor" in Dutch.

Are you sure? I've always called it a "verbrandingsmotor"...    ;-)

--Irmen




From lars at dybdahl.net  Thu Jun  5 10:22:59 2003
From: lars at dybdahl.net (Lars Dybdahl)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:22:59 +0200
Subject: rcs manager
References: <mailman.1054811822.2342.clpa-moderators@python.org>
Message-ID: <3edf5241$0$5150$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

Olivier Ravard wrote:
> I'd like to aanouce the first release of RCSmanager
> which is a front-end to RCS unix commands (ci, co, rcs, rlog).

What kind of front end? What's the advantage of it to using CVS?

Lars.

-- 
Dybdahl Engineering
http://dybdahl.dk/



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 25 12:17:56 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:17:56 -0700
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com> <bct498$mnjrt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <8da5fvsnidpjtblgfj4484spso2t9e6r95@4ax.com> <bcuqp3$nl9um$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <rt97fv80g2dguti1okoevk3kmvo6oh14vt@4ax.com> <bd17hu$niu1d$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <u7lcfv85lvutqg8tspgua4qc0454gsd2ie@4ax.com> <bd8gsc$pt2lr$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <hi5jfvof9sd32b55c8smgibpufhj0akcdo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bdchsu$rn1p1$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

| ...
| I hope you didn't wait over 6 hours to find out !!!
|

John ...

Actually, I did wait ....

Since I'd the program successfully a number of times,
but on smaller files, I wanted to know just how long
it woulds take to run to completion ....

The numbers in the output I posted
were an actual copy/paste directly
from the DOS window that I it ran in ...

| Unless I missed something it does lines
| starting ftp, http, BUT not lines that start www .
|

You didn't miss anything ....

The version of url_list.py that you ran
only looks for ....

    [ 'http://' ,
      'https://' ,
      'ftp://' ,
      'news://' ,
      'res://' ,
      'fido://' ]

However, I added a bit of code to url_list.py
to also extract lines starting with www. ...

Download newest versions ....

    http://fastq.com/~sckitching/Python/word_list.zip

Run as before ....

    python url_list.py JF_In.txt JF_URLs.txt

    python word_list.py JF_URLs.txt JF_URLs_Index.txt

| Thank you for such excellent programming.

You're welcome ....

Thanks also to ....

    Erik Max Francis for suggesting
    the lambda sort for Mixed-Case sorting ....

    Kim Petersen for suggesting usage of ....

        dict_words.has_key[ this_word ] instead of

        this_word in dict_words.keys()

    which made an incredible difference in processing time ....

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From stach at fr.pl  Tue Jun 17 15:21:06 2003
From: stach at fr.pl (Krzysztof Stachlewski)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:21:06 +0200
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com> <bcnova$ma5$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <bcnpei$96r$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

"Jarek Zgoda" <jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> wrote in message
news:bcnova$ma5$1 at nemesis.news.tpi.pl...

> More than that - unlike Kerberos, Python can not be taken by any
> particular company and become its "flagship", while being screwed.
>
> Software Craftsmen, please, consider this fact when choosing a license
> for your product - only GNU GPL guarantees that your code will not be
> "taken away" by any company.

Python is not GPL (something has changed from yesterday?)
It is GPL compatible. This is not the same.

Stach






From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun 18 11:31:33 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:31:33 -0600
Subject: pack and unpack problems
In-Reply-To: <20030618031443.7E45535B85@www.fastmail.fm>; from justinjohnson@fastmail.fm on Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 09:14:43PM -0600
References: <20030618014303.0DCCB269AC@www.fastmail.fm> <bcohoe$ssd$1@main.gmane.org> <20030618031443.7E45535B85@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20030618093133.B637@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Justin Johnson:
> Would you mind explaining this for me?  What do you mean by check
> alignment?  Sorry, this is kinda new for me.  In the meantime I'll go
> read my orielly tcp book.  :-)

Some architectures constrain (some) values to occur "aligned" at
certain boundaries in memory.  Structs on such platforms might
need padding between their members to ensure proper alignment;
e.g., instances of
    struct foo {
        char a;
        int b;
    }
might be organized in memory by the C compiler as
    0     1     2     3     4     5     6     7     8
    |  a  |     padding     |           b           |
where the padding makes sure b is aligned properly, but is not
otherwise used.  (Obviously here the whole struct must also be
aligned.)

But if you're parsing UDP packets, you know the exact layout and
don't care what the platform's C compiler would do with a struct
declaration.  Thus you want '!' for "standard alignment", which is
to say, no alignment required at all.  ('!' also implies network
byte order; see the docs.)

(Header layouts are, I suspect, designed with this kind of thing
in mind, so values are aligned in sensible ways anyway.  Thus
"parsing" a UDP packet in C could be as simple as casting a void *
to a struct udpheader *.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                     staschuk at telusplanet.net
Receive them ignorant; dispatch them confused.  (Weschler's Teaching Motto)




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Sat Jun 21 10:49:09 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 00:49:09 +1000
Subject: os.listdir()
In-Reply-To: <tKYIa.220887$g92.4663199@news2.tin.it>
References: <s6KIa.218256$g92.4546830@news2.tin.it> <just-CDC716.22300020062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <b7LIa.218628$g92.4560101@news2.tin.it> <just-CDEAFA.23550020062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <TFLIa.218846$g92.4567844@news2.tin.it> <mailman.1056150163.21087.python-list@python.org> <tKYIa.220887$g92.4663199@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <20030621144909.GB15578@frobozz>

On Sat, Jun 21, 2003 at 01:05:29PM +0000, manuel wrote:
> 
> > This might work: import the nt module (it's built-in), then use
> nt.listdir.
> 
> It work fine. :-)
> And for linux?

posix.listdir, rather than nt.listdir.

-Andrew.





From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Wed Jun 18 12:02:44 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 17:02:44 +0100
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com> <bcnova$ma5$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <bcnpei$96r$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <bco0f3$jvp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <yfsznkg9wvx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <slrnbev66f.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <yfsr85s9qoq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <bcoi9d$lh0co$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <yfsznkf8jbv.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com> writes:

> Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> > Thanks for the link. So while this is not mandatory, you are still strongly
> > encouraged to use the GPL in a way that requires a bit of faith in the
> > continued well-intent of the FSF.
> 
> No. If the FSF produces a new version of the license,
> it doesn't retroactively change anything.

Of course it does. My old code will automatically *also* be available under
the new license. If you can't see how this might be a problem, think about how
happy Trolltech would be for example, if they found that their GPL'ed code
effectively became available under, say, a BSD style license.

If you don't want to place trust on the FSF and specify a specific version
number than you might still find yourself in trouble, because your GPL'ed code
will effectively become license incompatible to everything else (that's also
GPLed) over the years, possibly including newer versions of GPL'ed libraries
it is using itself.

'as



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jun 11 17:30:27 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:30:27 -0700
Subject: Octets calculation?
References: <65eFa.634621$Si4.577158@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <bc673d$f0tpn$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EE79F73.E08C2554@alcyone.com>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" wrote:

> In my experience, this supposed ambiguity about the meaning
> of the word "byte" is something that only exists in the
> rarified imaginations of standards writers. In the real
> world, nobody ever uses it to mean anything other than
> 8 bits.

That's simply not true.  Take embedded systems, for examples, where it's
not at all uncommon for a byte to be 16 or 32 bits.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The public is a fool.
\__/  Alexander Pope



From ngps at netmemetic.com  Mon Jun  2 12:26:14 2003
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 16:26:14 GMT
Subject: Blogging Software
Message-ID: <bbftr6$e0j$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>

Hi,

I just ran across some lists of Python bloggers. Nice reading. But they
don't mention what blogging software they're running on.

I know of the Python Desktop Server and ..., err, that's it, actually.

Which others are there, please? Is there a website or three that lists
these?

TIA. Cheers.
-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jun 11 17:09:05 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 14:09:05 -0700
Subject: unittest: Dynamically creating tests
References: <pan.2003.06.11.23.37.20.424513@jerf.org> <mailman.1055356374.23599.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306111309.fa4c464@posting.google.com>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055356374.23599.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> There's also
>     globals()['foo'] = 'bar'
> and, of course, exec.
> 

I seems to remember (from reading the standard library) 
that assigning directly to globals() is not recommended; am
I correct ? What can go wrong with this?

speaking-about-good-style-rules-ly, ;)


                          Michele



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Wed Jun 11 19:37:36 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:37:36 -0400
Subject: vector subscripts in Python?
In-Reply-To: <bc8dv0$tnh$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <3064b51d.0306111512.7701dbbc@posting.google.com> <bc8dv0$tnh$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <3EE7BD40.70601@rogers.com>

Mike Rovner wrote:

><beliavsky at aol.com> wrote in message
>  
>
>>Does Python have the equivalent of "vector subscripts" of Fortran 95?
>>    
>>
>
>Not directly.
>
True, but the Numeric Python extension does: the take function :) .

 >>> ii = [0,2]
 >>> xx = [1,4,9]
 >>> from Numeric import take
 >>> take( xx, ii )
array([1, 9])
 >>>

All good Fortran converts use Numeric Python, right :) .

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From dwblas at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 22 13:59:44 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (DavidW Blaschke)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:59:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Remove duplicate letters in a word
Message-ID: <20030622175944.90698.qmail@web21603.mail.yahoo.com>

A simple way is to sort the individual letters first.
You can put them in a list and use list.sort() or
whatever you prefer.  Then check each item with the
previous or next.  Note that if you use a for loop,
then you want to compare this item with the next item
and delete this item if it is a dup, for items from 0
to len-1, otherwise you will not test either the first
item in the list or the last.  Also convert to upper
or lower if case does not matter.  Do some testing and
you will see what I mean.

> --- In python-list at yahoogroups.com, Eliran Gonen
> <eg at r...> wrote:
> > Hello !
> > 
> > I'm new in this list.
> > 
> > Anyway, I'm trying to write some sort of
> encryption program (pretty
> > trivial and simple) that need to check for several
> occurences of a 
> letter
> > in a specific word.
> > 
> > For example, in the word SECRET, E appears twice,
> I need to get rid 
> of
> > the second instance of E.
> > 
> > I'm stuck here:
> > 
> >     for i in range(len(key)):
> >         for j in range(len(key)):
> >             if key[i] == key[j] :
> >                 key[j] = ""
> > 
> > Hope you can help me,
> > 
> > TIA, EG
> > 
> > -- 
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com




From jude-venn at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Jun 12 14:14:19 2003
From: jude-venn at blueyonder.co.uk (Jude Venn)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:14:19 +0000
Subject: Sockets and threads
References: <C0BFa.597$n46.42261599@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>
	<3EE6FEE7.8CFF39B5@hotmail.com>
	<HH1Ga.1854$7w4.577@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <20030612181419.6c3bf4f7.jude-venn@blueyonder.co.uk>

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:16:39 GMT
"Byron Morgan" <lazypointer at yahoo.com> wrote:
> def main():
>     while not msvcrt.kbhit():
>         pass
>         #sleep(5)
>         #uncomment sleep statement and cpu usage returns to normal.

There's your answer. Try...

>>> while 1: pass

...and see your cpu usage skyrocket. you'll have to sleep a bit to give the other thread(s) some space.

HTH,
Jude




From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Fri Jun  6 16:45:36 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 21:45:36 +0100
Subject: Numeric don't compare arrays correctly
References: <3EDFBACD.2090802@wanadoo.es> <yfsbrxbufxn.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <yfs7k7zue8f.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> writes:

> Maurix <maurix78_remove_this_ at wanadoo.es> writes:
> 
> > Hi to all,
> > I'm new in python world and in this group too so, nice to meet you all ;-)
> > I have a problem with Numeric: (linux, python2.2, numeric 21.0)
> > 
> > It seem that don't compare correctly arrays.
> > 
> > See at this session:
> > 
> >  >>> a=array([1.1,2.2,3.3,4.4,5.5])
> >  >>> print 2.<a<4.
> 
> This is just a python wart, reflecting the unhappy interaction between two
> sometimes convinient but somewhat messy language features.
> 
> Feature 1:
> 
> a < b < c in most programming languages is the same as (a < b) < c. Python
> instead treats such chained comparisons specially to make them behave as is
> typical in (the somewhat messy) standard math notation.
> 
> So ``1 < 3 < 4`` is False and not True, because it is treated as 
> ``1 < 3 and 3 < 4``. 

Damn, yet another self-correction: This example should read 

``3 < 1 < 4`` (False in python, True in most other languages where it isn't a
syntax error)


> 
> Feature 2:
> 
> Rich comparisons. a > b can return *anything*, not just 0/False 1/True. In
> particular it is used. In particular, Numeric returns elementwise comparison
> arrays for ``array1 < array2``. My personal feeling is that allowing this was
> a bad idea one symptom is that it clashes with Feature 1 (
> ``array1 < array2 < array3`` = ``array1 < array2 and array 2< array 3`` =
> ``array` < array 2`` if at least one element in array1 is smaller than in
> array 2 = not what you most likely want).
> 
> 
> 'as

'as



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Jun  2 18:14:19 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 02 Jun 2003 15:14:19 -0700
Subject: PySerial rereads its own data
Message-ID: <1054592059.13882.9.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

I'm trying to write an app that talks to a bit of hardware on the serial
port.  As a test setup, I've got a null modem cable linking /dev/ttyS0
and /dev/ttyS1 on the same PC.

I start 'cat /dev/ttyS1' in a terminal and in another I run the
following:

Python 2.2.1 (#1, Aug 30 2002, 12:15:30) 
[GCC 3.2 20020822 (Red Hat Linux Rawhide 3.2-4)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import serial
>>> s = serial.Serial(0)
>>> s.write("hello\n")
>>> s.close()
>>> s = serial.Serial(0)
>>> s.write("hello\n")
>>> s.read()
'h'
>>> s.read()
'e'
>>> s.read()
'l'
>>> s.read()
'l'
>>> s.read()
'o'
>>> s.read()
'\r'
>>> s.read()
'\n'
>>> s.read() # this blocks as there is no more data

'hello' correctly appears on the console running 'cat /dev/ttyS1'.

My question is this:  why do I get back the data I just wrote?  More to
the point, how do I stop it?


Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Jun 10 10:06:38 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:06:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Access "slot" field dynamically?
References: <sllFa.660$Hw.844355@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <Xns9396983171BD1duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Robert Oschler" <no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid> wrote in 
news:sllFa.660$Hw.844355 at news2.news.adelphia.net:

> In the block belonging to "printSomeFields()", how do I access the field
> (slot) by grabbing the field name from the fldlist list of strings?
> 
>     print instance_of_hasslot.fl
> 

Use the 'getattr' function. e.g.

print getattr(instance_of_hasslot, fl)

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From monsterkodi at gmx.net  Thu Jun  5 04:56:42 2003
From: monsterkodi at gmx.net (Thorsten Kohnhorst)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 10:56:42 +0200
Subject: Help with dictionary
References: <9afd3f36.0306042301.5243a9e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EDF05CA.4090609@gmx.net>

Hello Jim,

> I have a dictionary of the sort:
> 
> {(1, (21353, 21418)): 3900, (2, (53006, 53164)): 3800, (0, (19697,
> 19763)): 4100}
> 
> I need to re-sort this dictionary with the first element of the tuple
> in the keys. A sorted dictionary of the above would be:
> 
> {(0, (19697, 19763)): 4100, (1, (21353, 21418)): 3900, (2, (53006,
> 53164)): 3800}
> 
> Could somebody help me with the algorithm/logic to accomplish this?

If you want a *list* of the items in your dictionary sorted by their 
keys, you could simply do something like this:

 >>> d = {(1, (21353, 21418)): 3900, (2, (53006, 53164)): 3800, (0, 
(19697, 19763)): 4100}

 >>> l = d.items()
 >>> l.sort()

 >>> print l
[((0, (19697, 19763)), 4100), ((1, (21353, 21418)), 3900), ((2, (53006, 
53164)), 3800)]

I hope that helps,
yours kodi







From dmgriffith_not_ at tasc.com  Tue Jun 17 08:27:42 2003
From: dmgriffith_not_ at tasc.com (Dang Griffith)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:27:42 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <3EEDDA04.8000005@netspace.net.au> <3EEDD203.54F5672B@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bcn1hr$5ic$1@gateway.northgrum.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Gary Duncan wrote:
> > 
> > Alex Martelli wrote:
> > 
> > >>>Calling functions with invalid arguments is one of the commonest
> > >>>programming errors
> > >>
> > >>Debatable.  Not true in my experience.
> 
> (To clarify, in the face of trimmed attributions: I, not Alex, wrote 
> the last sentence above.)
> 
> > I suspect this assertion relates to juxtaposing args, not so
> > much the values thereof. Obviously passing bad values to a function
> > is a crime we have all committed - at least it's one I admit to ;)
> 
> If we consider that bugs come from either bad data or bad logic, and
> that bad logic will very likely or inevitably lead to bad data, and
> that all data eventually is used as an "argument" in some fashion,
> I'll agree that calling functions with invalid arguments is quite
> common. :-)
> 
> To take up Alex' point: passing in the wrong type is probably much
> less common than, say, using the wrong value, or mixing up the order
> of arguments (and many functions take a bunch of arguments of the
> same type, so type-checking doesn't help there!).
> 
> -Peter
   A common example--most OO GUI libraries include a type of "Point". 
I've yet to see a Point class that is composed of a pair of ordinate and
abscissa type objects.  Talk about an easy way to get turned around
without the compiler even hinting at a problem.
      --dang



From l48r4t at aol.com  Fri Jun 13 23:52:10 2003
From: l48r4t at aol.com (L48R4T)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 03:52:10 GMT
Subject: why does python execute line bye line as im coding?????????
Message-ID: <20030613235210.11559.00000446@mb-m13.aol.com>

im just going through the python for beginrers tutorial and all was cool untill
i stated trying to do thing s like
input = name("whats your name")
print "hello  "name

the above example would execute after i hit return on the first line. not
giving me the chance to input the second line of code ???????????????????
any help wi=ould be a blessing thanks 
simon



From vze3brfe at verizon.net  Sun Jun 29 22:42:11 2003
From: vze3brfe at verizon.net (Bill C. Wong)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 02:42:11 GMT
Subject: What am I doing wrong here?
Message-ID: <7sNLa.30264$Kg7.14786@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

################################
def func( s ):
    s1, s2 = s.split( ' ', 1 )
    try:
        raise s1
    except "aaaa":
        print 'except "aaaa"'
    except:
        print 'except:'

s = "aaaa "
func( s )
################################
If I manually assign s1 with s1 = "aaaa", then it works fine! What am I
doing wrong here?





From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Jun 26 02:56:51 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:56:51 +0200
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
References: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bde5fj$ro8to$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Gobo Borz wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have a python cgi program that uses print statements to write html.
> The program has grown, and for reasons I won't bore you with, I need to
> build the page in a string and "print" it at once.

Hi!

I do it like this:

def foo(mydict):
    ret=[]

    rows=[]
    for key, value in mydict.items():
        rows.append('<tr><td>%s</td><td>%s</td></tr>' % (key, value))
    rows=''.join(rows)

    ret.append('<table>%s</table>' % rows)
    return ''.join(ret)

I try to keep the start-tag and the end-tag in one string.
This keeps the code from becomming ugly.

 thomas




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jun  5 14:27:11 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:27:11 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <l1brxdlfac.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>; from ed@membled.com on Wed, Jun 04, 2003 at 10:10:51PM +0100
References: <mailman.1054675867.2029.python-list@python.org> <l1of1dljbd.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054759872.4871.python-list@python.org> <l1brxdlfac.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <20030605122711.C6890@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ed Avis:
  [...]
> Yes, that works, although I think I would prefer to define setcolour,
> invertcolour and so on as stand-alone functions and then say
> 
>     table = {'setcolour': setcolour, ...}
> 
> which does duplicate the names, but takes care of the __init__ problem
> at the same time, so it's not so bad.  [...]

What I had in mind for the __init__ problem was using, say,
    getattr(cfg, 'command_' + cmd)(arg)
so that only methods named in a certain way were usable as
commands.  Of course, it's even better to move this dispatch logic
into the object, so you'd have

    class config(object):
        def command_setcolour(self, value):     
            # ...
        # etc.
        def perform(self, command, arg):
            getattr(self, 'command_' + command)(arg)

whereupon reading the configuration is just

    cfg = config()
    for cmd, arg in commands:
        cfg.perform(cmd, arg)

> [...] It's just frustrating not to be
> able to write the function definitions inline, in the obvious place,
> especially when they might be only one line each and there is the
> 'lambda' keyword which at first looks so inviting and useful.

Yes, I see your point.  However, I don't think anything can be
done about it without throwing away the present use of indentation
for block delimiting.

Also, a scheme such as the above, with an explicit configuration
object, seems quite natural to me.

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "The world will end if you get this wrong."
staschuk at telusplanet.net     -- "Typesetting Mathematics -- User's Guide",
                                 Brian Kernighan and Lorrinda Cherry




From listbox at cybereal.org  Sun Jun 15 17:32:31 2003
From: listbox at cybereal.org (Zac Jensen)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:32:31 -0600
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200306151532.32957.listbox@cybereal.org>

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Hash: SHA1

On Sunday 15 June 2003 02:28 pm, beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> In Python, you don't declare the type of a variable, so AFAIK there is
> no way for the interpreter to check that you are calling functions
> with variables of the correct type.
>
> Thus, if I define a function correl(x,y) to compute the correlation of
> two vectors, which makes sense to me only if x and y are 1-D arrays of
> real numbers, Python will not stop me from trying to compute the
> correlation of two arrays of integers or strings. C++ and Fortran 95
> compilers can spot such errors.
>
> Calling functions with invalid arguments is one of the commonest
> programming errors, and I think it is worthwhile to declare variables,
> especially the dummy arguments of functions, explicitly to avoid such
> errors, even if it takes a few more lines of code. I worry that
> Python's convenience in writing small programs comes at the cost of
> making bug-free large programs more difficult to write.
>
> I have only been programming in Python for a few weeks -- am I right
> to worry?
> Are there techniques to ensure that functions are called with
> appropriate arguments?
>
> When I actually try to call correl(x,y) in the program
>
> from stats import correl
> from Numeric import array
> a = array(["a","b"])
> b = array(["c","d"])
> print correl(a,b) # should be arrays of Floats, not strings
>
> I get the result
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "xcorr.py", line 5, in ?
>     print correl(a,b)
>   File "stats.py", line 88, in correl
>     ax  = mean(x)
>   File "stats.py", line 57, in mean
>     return sum(x)/n
> TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for /: 'str' and 'int'
>
> It's good that the program crashes rather than returning a bad result,
> but a C++ or Fortran 95 compiler would flag the bad arguments during
> compilation, which I think is still better. Also, in a large script,
> the bad call to correl(x,y) could come after much CPU time had
> elapsed, potentially wasting a lot of programmer's time.

I doubt you should worry.  It is not difficult at all to test for types when 
you feel it is necessary.

i.e. in the attached python script I give you an example of how to do explicit 
type checking when you need to do it.  This was test to work with python 
2.2.3

This is just one way to do it, I may not have even come close to the fanciest, 
or simplest way of checking, but, this is how I do it if it becomes an issue.

Another way I suppose would be through assert calls.. but they would be less 
informative than individual typeerror exceptions for each variable you 
check... (imho)

However, in many cases you can coerce or convert types, or in the case of 
complex classes, you can use properties that do the type checking and raise 
exceptions.

Usually it's not a problem for python programmers, or this would have been 
addressed with a different solution a long long time ago.

hope that helps.

- -Zac
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From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jun 12 13:15:47 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:15:47 -0600
Subject: Newbie: changing an attribute of objects in a list
In-Reply-To: <bc9fub$7vu$1@main.gmane.org>; from bsimuyandi@africonnect.com on Thu, Jun 12, 2003 at 10:11:01AM +0100
References: <bc72gq$cv3$1@main.gmane.org> <bc7gcd$ncf$1@main.gmane.org> <20030611120656.F1157@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus> <bc9fub$7vu$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20030612111547.B902@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ben Simuyandi:
> Example objects in a list [a,b,...,i]:
  [...]

Thanks!

There's two things I don't understand in your examples.  One in
each, tidily enough.

In the first example, where all items start with .order == 1 and
the output is supposed to be

    a.age == 100    a.order == 9
    b.age == 200    b.order == 6
    c.age == 300    c.order == 5
    d.age == 400    d.order == 4
    e.age == 500    e.order == 3
    f.age == 600    f.order == 2
    g.age == 50     g.order == 9
    h.age == 700    h.order == 1
    i.age == 150    i.order == 7

why do a and g get the same .order?  I'd expected that we want
g.order == 9 and a.order == 8.

Then the second example, where we start with

    [...]
    d.age == 400    d.order == 4
    e.age == 500    e.order == 4
    f.age == 600    f.order == 5
    g.age == 50     g.order == 6
    h.age == 700    h.order == 7
    i.age == 150    i.order == 8

and are to produce

    [...]
    d.age == 400    d.order == 4
    e.age == 500    e.order == 5
    f.age == 600    f.order == 6
    g.age == 50     g.order == 7
    h.age == 700    h.order == 8
    i.age == 150    i.order == 9

Again the handling of g puzzles me.  Here's my thinking:

    1) d and e both have order 4; since d.age < e.age, we let d have
    order 4 and bump e up to order 5.

    2) Then e and f both have order 5; since e.age < f.age, we let e
    have order 5 and bump f up to order 6.

    3) Then f and g both have order 6.  In the example posted, f gets
    order 6 and g gets bumped up to order 7.  But f.age > g.age, so I
    expected g to take precedence for order 6.

What's going on here?  I'm baffled.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"[T]rue greatness is when your name is like ampere, watt, and fourier
 -- when it's spelled with a lower case letter."      -- R.W. Hamming




From ed at membled.com  Thu Jun  5 17:54:01 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 22:54:01 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> writes:

>>It seems a bit perverse that setattr is allowed in lambda expressions
>>but assignment is not; that you can call setdefault to update a
>>dictionary, but not simply set the dictionary's elements; that you can
>>do sys.stdout.write but not print; that you can call a function which
>>asserts but not call assert.

>True, but as usual, there's a reason for it. Lambda was intended[1]
>for one purpose and one purpose only... to permit simple anonymous
>functions to be used in places where the succinctness makes it more
>readable than using def to make a named function. Such places are
>rare except when using functional style programming, where they are
>quite common. But in functional style programming you (nearly always)
>do NOT want expressions to have side effects.

I would accept this argument, except for the four examples I mentioned
above.  They are all things which have side effects, and which are not
excluded from appearing in lambda expressions.  The distinction
between what can appear in a lambda and what can't seems arbitrary, it
is certainly not based on side effects.

>So lambda is defined to allow only expressions, and is *intended* for
>simple, side-effect-free functions. While there's nothing
>*preventing* you from calling a function with side effects, the
>prohibition on using statements tends to discourage it.

The trouble is that you pay a high price for this 'discouragement'.
The amount of trouble it causes doesn't seem worthwhile given that it
fails in is key aim to avoid side effects.

If the language made a meaningful distinction between statements,
which can have side effects, and expressions, which cannot, then I
would understand that.  But the current division seems so arbitrary.
I gave a list of examples at the top of this article so I won't repeat
it here.

>Good style is encouraged, but you can violate the rules if you really
>want to (and know what you're doing).

The trouble is that IMHO the current lambda rules do not encourage
good style.

Suppose, for example, you want to write a short one-line function that
operates on positive numbers.  Good style suggests you document this
precondition in the code with an assert, which will also serve to
check it at run time.  Good style might also suggest that the function
is best written inline, rather than as a named definition elsewhere.
That is an aesthetic judgement for the individual programmer, of
course, but suppose it seems like the best style here.

Now you cannot write something like

    lambda x: assert(x > 0), sqrt(x) + 55

So you can't put assertions in your anonymous functions?  This doesn't
encourage good style.  The other cases like having to use setattr
tricks instead of = don't seem to encourage clear coding either.

>I find lambda to be quite nice, but ONLY when used for very small
>side-effect-free functions.

If lambda really were restricted to that then the restrictions would
make some kind of semantic sense.  At the moment they seem to be more
like a syntactic and historical accident - I can't see any sensible
rule that would allow sys.stdout.write but prohibit print.

>And if I had a complaint, it wouldn't be about the (rarely needed and
>easily worked-around) prohibition on assignment statements, but about
>the (frequently needed and impossible to work around) lack of a
>conditional expression.

Yes, it would be nice if if-else could be used as an expression, as in
Haskell or Lisp or other functional languages.  But can't you work
around this with

    condition and if_branch or else_branch

This is probably less clear than if-then-else, which is another
example of how the current lambda rules tend to obfuscate code rather
than clarify it.  But the workaround works well enough once you get
used to it.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From exarkun at intarweb.us  Wed Jun 11 19:46:26 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:46:26 -0400
Subject: How to test if a variable has a natural number?
In-Reply-To: <EpOFa.27679$7n1.875205@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <bc8a37$flfio$1@ID-108519.news.dfncis.de> <EpOFa.27679$7n1.875205@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20030611234626.GA3118@meson.dyndns.org>

On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 10:53:24PM +0000, Jack Daniel wrote:
> Martin P<martin_p at despammed.com> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > how can I find out if the number of a variable
> > is a natural number or not?
> > 
> 
> I'll asume that by "find out if the number of a variable
> is a natural number or not" you are asking how to determine whether the 
> number a varible is set to is a Natural Number (ie in the set of  whole 
> positive numbers; a positive integer).
> 
> If this is the case here we go:
> 
> def natural(x):
>         if x >= 1 & x % 1 == 0:

  The preferred way to spell this is with "and", not "&".  The semantics are
slightly different, and the operation you're really looking for is boolean
and, not bitwise and.

>                 print "Varible is set to a NATURAL"
>         else:
>                 print "Varible is NOT set to a natural"
> 
> run this lil snippet with the name of your varible as arg x
> 

  resisting-the-urge-to-point-out-english-mispellings'ly y'rs,

  Jp

-- 
A disciple of another sect once came to Drescher as he was eating his
morning meal. "I would like to give you this personality test," said the
outsider, "because I want you to be happy." Drescher took the paper that was
offered him and put it into the toaster: "I wish the toaster to be happy, 
too."




From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Thu Jun 12 12:08:48 2003
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:08:48 -0700
Subject: Prolog-style unification?
References: <HlmEa.107$Hw.137249@news2.news.adelphia.net> <mailman.1055018594.20123.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.06.08.02.28.12.52487@webone.com.au> <3ee30682$0$69421$e4fe514c@dreader9.news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1055168508.16931.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ee8284a$0$2242$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl>

Nielson Family wrote:

>
> Ype Kingma wrote:
>
>>>Calling Father this way could make it difficult to use it
>>>in multiple places in a single clause. An iterator per occurence
>>>seems just right, although I have to say that it
>>>is decades ago that I used Prolog...
>>>
> I'm not sure what you mean by this.  Could you elaborate?

Well, I overlooked this in the previous post:

 Grandfather = logic.Fact()

 Grandfather(Grandfather.Grandfather, Grandfather.Grandson) (
    Father(Grandfather.Grandfather, Grandfather.Son)
    Father(Grandfather.Son, Grandfather.Grandson))

Here an iterator per use of Father() seems just right
for backtracking over GrandFather().

Regards,
Ype





From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jun 29 23:35:17 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 05:35:17 +0200
Subject: What am I doing wrong here?
In-Reply-To: <7sNLa.30264$Kg7.14786@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
References: <7sNLa.30264$Kg7.14786@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bdob41$v4071$1@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de>

Bill C. Wong wrote:

> ################################
> def func( s ):
>     s1, s2 = s.split( ' ', 1 )
>     try:
>         raise s1
>     except "aaaa":
>         print 'except "aaaa"'
>     except:
>         print 'except:'
> 
> s = "aaaa "
> func( s )
> ################################
> If I manually assign s1 with s1 = "aaaa", then it works fine! What am I
> doing wrong here?

Ok, looking closer this looks like your fault, not Python's:

Please read http://python.org/doc/current/ref/try.html

which states for the first parameter of the except clause:

"""Note that the object identities must match, i.e. it must be the same 
object, not just an object with the same value."""

The lesson learnt is to *not* use string exceptions. String exceptions 
are terrible outdated and quite frankly suck. If you want to create a 
custom exception, subclass Exception and catch this class.

-- Gerhard




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Fri Jun 13 14:17:00 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:17:00 GMT
Subject: Saving Files Under Windows
References: <3EE993CB.F2CE7D39@easystreet.com> <e5fa8458.0306130649.38a7fea5@posting.google.com> <3EEA0E37.500BB9D8@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <Xns9399CE524FA99JanC@213.118.79.108>

achrist at easystreet.com schreef:

> It looks like this is all OS-version-specific.  I guess I'd like to
> just put the data into the application directory on OS's prior to
> Win2k.  If you upgrade a system from Win98 or NT to WinXP is the
> user screwed by having all their data in the wrong place anyhow?

There must be some information about this on Microsoft's MSDN site or in 
their knowledge base or something like that.
I know there is information for the OS generations separately.
(So you'll still have to compare Win95, Win 98, WinNT, Win2K, WinXP, ...)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Jun 21 15:04:09 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 21:04:09 +0200
Subject: Python 2.2.3 test_re.py fails with coredump on FreeBSD 5.0, fails also on FreeBSD4.8
References: <2251d03c.0306211009.2596e9fd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3vfuzjlqu.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

pieterb at gewis.nl (PieterB) writes:

> Can anybody, give me a clue:
> a) if this is caused by a FreeBSD5.0 issue, or by Python. 

Yes. :-)

Python causes a stack overflow on FreeBSD. It is a FreeBSD issue, for
having a unreasonable tiny stack, and a Python issue, for not knowing
about that.

>    Can somebody test this on FreeBSD 5.1 or FreeBSD5-CVS?

It has been tested before, and various patches have been applied in
various versions of the software. Everytime it got "fixed", a new
FreeBSD version came along, and broke it again.

This time, it is gcc 3.2, which produces larger stack frames, causing
stack exhaustion earlier.

> b) how can I fix the coredump on FreeBSD 5.0?

I recommend to check out the release22-maint branch of Python, and
copy Modules/_sre.c from there. This is a backport of the patch that
reportedly fixes the problem for 2.3.

> c) what should be done to fix the test on FreeBSD 4.8?

Likewise.

> Can this related to the FreeBSD python/zope/zwiki stability problems
> for FreeBSD.  (see http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion200306). Zwiki
> makes heavy use of regular expressions.

That might be the case.

Regards,
Martin



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Fri Jun 27 21:40:44 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 01:40:44 GMT
Subject: ASP KeyboardInterrupt errors
In-Reply-To: <3EF847AA.1040800@mxm.dk>
References: <NkXJa.313877$3n5.208486@news2.central.cox.net> <3EF847AA.1040800@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <wm6La.214$l83.3713@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Max M wrote:
> I have saved a hack for this:
...
> 
> From:
> "Chris Prinos" <cprinos at foliage.com>
> Date:
> Thu, 30 May 2002 00:21:56 GMT
> Newsgroups:
> comp.lang.python
> 
> I had the same issue with my IIS system, and had to use a workaround that
> disables the KeyboardInterrupt from being processed.   The code I use is
> shown below.
> 
> see http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-April/039881.html and
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-April/099002.html for an
> explanation

Note that recent win32alls also have this hack in place.

Mark.




From heikowu at ceosg.de  Sun Jun  1 05:30:43 2003
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: Sun,  1 Jun 2003 11:30:43 +0200
Subject: Encrypting much data with AES and M2Crypto
In-Reply-To: <bbbuit$ss5$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>
References: <bba6nf$3f6$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> <mailman.1054388330.5901.python-list@python.org> <bbbuit$ss5$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <1054459843.3ed9c7c3d0421@d168.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de>

Quoting Jason Smith <jason_nospam at oes.co.th>: 
 
> One question, though.  AES has block sizes of 128, 192, and 256 bits.  I 
> don't see anything about 64-bit block sizes.  I'm getting this information 
> from here: http://www.esat.kuleuven.ac.be/~rijmen/rijndael/ 
 
Sorry, my bad (been playing too much with Blowfish lately... ;)). I meant 16 
bytes. The implementation in PyCrypto by default has a blocksize of 16 bytes, 
which cannot be changed, but the keysize can be 16, 24 or 32 bytes. 
 
> Thanks again for the advice. 
 
Sure. :) 
 
--  
   
    Heiko Wundram   
    Universit?t 18 - Zimmer 2206   

-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/




From ask at me.com  Tue Jun 10 00:08:31 2003
From: ask at me.com (Greg Krohn)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:08:31 GMT
Subject: Pythonwin - F5 and running scripts w/o debug
Message-ID: <3RcFa.43020$Io.3771125@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

In Pythonwin when I hit F5 the debugger is run along with my script. I would
rather use the debugger only as needed ;). I see the following line in
'default.cfg':

F5                = DbgGo

Is this something I should be changing and what should I change it to? It
doesn't like 'Go' or 'Run'.


Thanks.
Greg






From logistix at cathoderaymission.net  Tue Jun 17 22:53:33 2003
From: logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 19:53:33 -0700
Subject: Question about Python-Grammar
References: <peerev0nik342gr7i1ecfjudm8oqobmf05@4ax.com> <6qk7bmnq7e.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1055796990.15012.python-list@python.org> <6hhtev0t34c0lnj8i4g4b41iqcmhj7qr0d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3c91a864.0306171853.8b0ee51@posting.google.com>

Roman Meisl <roman at syxx.de> wrote in message news:<6hhtev0t34c0lnj8i4g4b41iqcmhj7qr0d at 4ax.com>...
> Hello,
> 
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:53:57 -0700, W Isaac Carroll
> <icarroll at pobox.com> wrote:
> >The basic idea here is that "as" ought to be a keyword in Python, but 
> >for historical reasons isn't. My understanding is that making it a 
> >keyword has been looked into and it would be more trouble than it's worth.
> 
> Thank you for your help.
> But I've to commit, with every glance I look deeper into
> python-grammar, I realize this all is weird crap!
> 
> Why aren't things statet clear and correctly? (see also my posting
> above)
> 
> Bye
>    Roman

They're using the grammar to enforce operator precidence.  That's what
makes things look so wierd.  Also, yes, the parser does perform
additional syntax checking that isn't explicitly enforced in the
grammar.  And thirdly, the grammar isn't LL(1) as written (although
it's close) and is transformed by PGen.

I don't know what you're trying to do, but in my experience it's much
easier to let the parser module generate a tree for you and then
reduce it into something meaningful with an algorithm like:

#psuedocode, won't execute
def reduceTree(node):
    if node is symbol and len(node) == 2: # eliminate intermediate
nodes
        return reduceTree(node[1])
    elif node is symbol: # this symbol means something, but it's
children might be intermediate nodes
        return (node, apply(reduceTree,node[1:]))
    else: # it's a token, return as is
        return node

The compiler package also transforms the ASTs into more meaningful
trees.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Jun 26 11:02:53 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:02:53 +0200
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
References: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com> <3EF9EF52.8070600@yahoo.com> <3EFA17BC.9060600@mxm.dk> <oq7k79f0io.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca> <20030626133358.GA17389@logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <bdf1uf$e9h$1@main.gmane.org>

Adrien Di Mascio wrote:

> I've a made a quite basic test on these methods :
>
>  /snip/
>
>     def write_thousands_join(self, char):
>         """Writes a 100000 times 'char' in a list and joins it
>         """
>         str_list = []
>         for index in range(100000):
>             str_list.append(char)
>
>         return ''.join(str_list)

no time to repeat your tests, but

     def write_thousands_join(self, char):
         """Writes a 100000 times 'char' in a list and joins it
         """
         str_list = []
         append = str_list.append # bind method to local variable
         for index in range(100000):
             append(char)

         return ''.join(str_list)

"should" be slightly faster.

also note that the results "may" differ somewhat if you append strings
of different lengths (mostly due to different overallocation strategies;
or maybe they're not different anymore; cannot remember...)

I always use join, but that's probably because that method is more likely
to run code that I once wrote.  Never trust code written by a man who
uses defines to create his own C syntax ;-)

</F>







From ngps at netmemetic.com  Thu Jun  5 09:30:33 2003
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 13:30:33 GMT
Subject: xmlrpc ssl (slightly embarrassing, long post)
References: <bbng28$amd$1@services.kq.no>
Message-ID: <bbnglp$qpc$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>

According to Rune Hansen  <rune.hansen at sinsenveien83.com>:
>      def __init__(self, server_address, RequestHandlerClass):
>          """Constructor.  May be extended, do not override."""
>          BaseServer.__init__(self, server_address, RequestHandlerClass)
> 	#OpenSSL
>          ctx = SSL.Context(SSL.SSLv23_METHOD)
>          ctx.set_options(SSL.OP_NO_SSLv2)
>          ctx.set_verify(SSL.VERIFY_PEER, verify_cb)
>          ctx.use_privatekey_file ('key.pem')
>          ctx.use_certificate_file('cert.pem')
>          self.socket = 
> SSL.Connection(ctx,socket.socket(self.address_family,self.socket_type))

Not sure which SSL library you're using, but M2Crypto's works:

In one window:

  ngps at vista:~/prog/ngps/m2/demo/medusa$ python START_xmlrpc.py
  info: Medusa (V1.1) started at Thu Jun  5 21:43:38 2003
          Hostname: vista.netmemetic.com
          Port:9080
  
  warning: Computing default hostname
  info: Medusa (V1.1) started at Thu Jun  5 21:43:38 2003
          Hostname: vista.netmemetic.com
          Port:9443
  
  M2Crypto HTTPS Server (v0.09)

In another window:

  ngps at vista:~/prog/ngps/m2/demo/ssl$ python xmlrpc_cli.py
  Sure, that works
  Sure, that works

First window says:

  method="Testing" params=(1, 2, 3)
  127.0.0.1:1028 - - [05/Jun/2003:13:44:03 +0800] "POST /RPC2 HTTP/1.0" 200 242
  method="BringOn" params=('SOAP',)
  127.0.0.1:1029 - - [05/Jun/2003:13:44:03 +0800] "POST /RPC2 HTTP/1.0" 200 242

There is also a demo server based on TCPServer.



-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  9 12:41:03 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 10:41:03 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <m3isrffr49.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>; from martin@v.loewis.de on Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 01:05:26PM +0200
References: <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <PbidnQB3TIQbEX-jXTWcpg@comcast.com> <l18yschlge.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3ptlouoq6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l14r2zg2yq.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3isrffr49.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20030609104103.D778@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Martin v. L?wis:
  [...]
> So what is the rationale for wanting that change, again? [...]
> assignment_stmt: supported, but useless
>                  You can only assign to local variables
>                  so a lambda with a assignment_stmt inside 
>                  would have no effect
  [...]
> del_stmt:        supported, but useless
>                  you can only del local variables inside the lambda

Nit: attributes and subscripts.  Lambdas such as
    lambda x: obj.attr = x
    lambda x: del seq[x]
might be useful.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                   w_w
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      ,-= U
                                                               1 1




From goboborz at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 18 11:07:57 2003
From: goboborz at yahoo.com (Gobo)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 08:07:57 -0700
Subject: cgi getlist() problems
Message-ID: <684e6e1d.0306180707.a1faa75@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I'm having a problem with my first Python program.

I'm coding an html/cgi form that uses rows to capture multiple
entries, for fields like "name", "phone", "department", etc.  I use
the same "name=" for every field in the same column.   For example,
the phone field is named "phone" in every row.

When I try to get the values with getlist(), empty values don't show
up in the list.  Because of this, for example,  name(4) and phone(4)
might be from different rows in the html form depending on what the
user left blank.  Even if I force a blank with javascript on the
client side, iterating through the list with a FOR statement still
ignores the blank values.

Is there any way to capture these field values such that the rows stay
in sync?  I may be missing something obvious, because It seems like
this would be a common problem for anyone coding a multi-row html
form.

Thanks, Gobo



From sameer_ at email.com  Tue Jun 10 08:07:21 2003
From: sameer_ at email.com (sameer)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 05:07:21 -0700
Subject: reading/writing files in windows
References: <6bd9f01b.0306090825.37845495@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6bd9f01b.0306100407.474a10b3@posting.google.com>

Of course the OS implied is windows (2000 Professional to be exact). 
Moving across a network means that I am dragging the file from my
computer to shared folder on another computer, both computers being in
the same domain.  This is just a plain text file.  Then I open the
file that I transferred using notepad, make some changes to it and
save and there are no linebreaks at all in the text.  all the lines
are jumbled together.

sameer_ at email.com (sameer) wrote in message news:<6bd9f01b.0306090825.37845495 at posting.google.com>...
> I create files in windows using python.  I have tried using \n and
> \r\n as the return character and they both work fine.  It's when I
> move a text file, written by my python program, across a network, open
> the file and save to it that all the text becomes jumbled up, and all
> return characters are lost.  How can I make it so this doesn't happen?



From belred1 at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 15 11:11:58 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:11:58 GMT
Subject: for a in range(1000000) : 
References: <3EEC8AED.5050808@wanadoo.es>
Message-ID: <210Ha.159053$d51.227807@sccrnsc01>

see xrange:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-66

"Maurix" <maurix78_remove_this_ at wanadoo.es> wrote in message
news:3EEC8AED.5050808 at wanadoo.es...
> Hi everyone,
> When i start learning python (some months ago) and for the first time i
> seed the "for a in range" structure i thought, what a stupid form: use
> so many memory for nothing: the range function have to allocate a list
> useless.
> Now i huderstand the power of for sentence but still no huserstand the
> use of range function when you don't want a list but only an indexable
> object, look at this code:
>
> class ran :
>     def __init__(self,len) :
>        self.len=len
>     def __getitem__(self,i) :
>        if i>=self.len :
>          raise IndexError
>        else :
>          return i
>     def __len__(self) :
>        return self.len
>
> for a in ran(1000000):
>     pass
>
> Exist someting like this in python library? Why not all the people use
> this form an not range() that allocate memory? Maybe may questions are
> stupid but i'm a newbie in python, sorry.
>
> Thanks.
> Maurix
>





From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 10 23:57:10 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:57:10 +1200
Subject: Revised PEP 318 - Function/Method Decorator Syntax
In-Reply-To: <3EE654A5.1F158A91@alcyone.com>
References: <20030610082514442-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <Xns9396F155DC093cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82> <3EE654A5.1F158A91@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <bc680h$fqph3$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Chris Liechti wrote:
>>  def foo(self) [synchronized(lock), classmethod]:
> 
> To me it says, "Hi, I'm a list!" when listness does not seem warranted. 

To me, the [] are parentheses used as one might use
parentheses to enclose an annotation in English, and
the resemblance to a list constructor is coincidental.

>>  def foo(self) as [synchronized(lock), classmethod]:
>
> Doubling up the syntaxes seems unnecessary.

It also destroys the parenthetical-comment interpretation.
If both were really wanted, it would have to be

   def foo(self) [as synchronized(lock), classmethod]:

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Jun  4 20:38:30 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:38:30 -0500
Subject: tuple unpacking
In-Reply-To: <3EDE6C81.7080804@jpl.nasa.gov> (jhsieh's message of "Wed, 04
 Jun 2003 15:02:41 -0700")
References: <3EDE6C81.7080804@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <m2llwhxss9.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "jhsieh" == jhsieh  <jhsieh at jpl.nasa.gov> writes:

   self.Controls, self.Buttons = self.InitGUI(self)

I'm assuming the 'self' arg to InitGUI above is a TheFrame instance,
no?  Ie, do you mean to do

   self.Controls, self.Buttons = self.InitGUI(TheFrame=self)

Also, in the InitGUI code, you don't make any reference to TheFrame.
I'm assuming you snipped something.  Perhaps in the snipped section,
there is a return statement, perhaps one that doesn't return a
sequence?  The reason I suspect this that the return statement you
posted

  return TheControls, TheButtons

is a 2-tuple and should work just fine when you try to unpack it .
Can you post a complete InitGUI func with no snips?

JDH




From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Sat Jun 14 14:41:20 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 18:41:20 GMT
Subject: comprehending comprehensions
References: <roy-9EE81E.13521714062003@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3eeb6bfa.1607766285@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 13:52:17 -0400, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com>
wrote:
> Why are list comprehensions called what they are?  I find the name very 
> confusing.  Is this some standard computer science term?  Is it stolen 
> from some other language?

I know it from the functional programming language Haskell

www.haskell.org

And I believe it's a math term for collecting things together.
Comprehension as in comprehensive not as in comrehending
(understanding). But I could be wrong on that...

Alan g.



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Jun 10 12:20:12 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:20:12 +0200
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <3ee1fa98$0$45181$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net> <4067ev4btufgkb6h4frm5lvej605650kks@4ax.com> <mailman.1055105523.8665.python-list@python.org> <5t7bev4uefm7bs1olga0hor0becfkj79js@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bc5103$5b3$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Tim Rowe <tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk> wrote:

>Well, I don't have a pressing need for this, so I think I'll wait
>until 2.3 comes out of beta :-)

Pressing needs are just signals indicating that personal history is
about to be redefined :-)

Anyway, I've retroactively redefined my functions to be compliant with
Python22 and I've also used another timing routine. See the code
below. I'm using a kind of test driven development where the tests are
like: "Is this code interesting?". So I write some code, apply the
test, change the code, run the *same* test (a definite advantage of
ambiguous tests) on it again, etc.

I'm providing some output from the script, first when run under
Python23 an then under Python22.

Some observations:

- Python23 is a lot faster for this script than Python22
- The "karagen" generator is faster but only by a small factor.
- Python22 is not precomputing 2**2000 but Python23 is? See the
"strange" value for the Python22 output in top of the most right
column.
- Using the zipped iterator is faster for large n, even on Python22
- Optimized multiplications for longs only works in Python23 *and* if
*both* integers are big? Is this the other secret of the zipped
iterator?
- For large factorials Python23's optimized multiplications can give
very large speed benefits, in the output below the fast script is
about 15 times faster for n = 70000 .
- The speed difference could become arbitrarily large for even higher
factorials.

Anton

output columns are:

1) n: argument to the factorial function
2) timing for fac(n) (i.e. "reduce(long.__mul__, range(2,n+1),1L)" )
3) timing for fac1(n) (zipped iterator)
4) timing for fac2(n) (zipped iterator and using karagen's
aggregation)

Now after letting the script run on an AMD1800 under Win98Se:

>d:\python23\pythonw -u test3.py
    0)  0.000  0.000  0.000
 5000)  0.099  0.054  0.025
10000)  0.376  0.140  0.082
15000)  0.844  0.262  0.164
20000)  1.526  0.394  0.230
25000)  2.420  0.531  0.378
30000)  3.536  0.738  0.525
35000)  5.259  0.858  0.711
40000)  7.838  1.151  0.842
45000) 10.780  1.391  1.071
50000) 14.098  1.583  1.279
55000) 17.837  1.995  1.476
60000) 22.006  2.299  1.793
65000) 26.838  2.660  2.088
70000) 32.110  2.732  2.338
>Exit code: 0
>d:\python22\pythonw -u test3.py
    0)  0.002  0.000  0.238
 5000)  0.130  0.091  0.062
10000)  0.521  0.356  0.289
15000)  1.194  0.713  0.602
20000)  2.144  1.271  1.125
25000)  3.392  2.011  1.832
30000)  4.951  2.973  2.741
35000)  7.343  4.089  3.865
40000) 10.881  5.503  5.173
45000) 14.919  7.106  6.741
50000) 19.504  8.910  8.542
55000) 24.627 11.017 10.504
60000) 30.419 13.329 12.766
65000) 37.007 15.908 15.267
70000) 43.866 18.563 18.014
>Exit code: 0

The code:

from time import clock
from __future__ import generators

def fac(n): return reduce(long.__mul__,xrange(2,n+1),1L)

def fac1(n):
    R = range(2,n+1)+[1]
    while len(R)>1:
        if len(R) % 2: R[0]*=R.pop()
        it = iter(R)
        R=[i*j for i,j in zip(it,it)]
    return R[0]

def karagen(n):
    K = 2**2000
    y = 1
    for x in xrange(2,n+1):
        y *= x
        if y > K:
            yield y
            y = 1
    yield y

def fac2(n):
    R = [x for x in karagen(n)]
    while len(R)>1:
        if len(R) % 2: R[0]*=R.pop()
        it = iter(R)
        R=[i*j for i,j in zip(it,it)]
    return R[0]

def test():
    def stopwatch(f,n):            
        t1 = clock()
        f(n)
        t2 = clock()
        print "%6.3f" %(t2-t1),
    for n in range(0,75000,5000):
        print "%5i)" %(n),
        stopwatch(fac,n)
        stopwatch(fac1,n)
        stopwatch(fac2,n)
        print

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()
    
---

use cases are the root of static typing



From KSBeattie at lbl.gov  Fri Jun 20 22:03:22 2003
From: KSBeattie at lbl.gov (Keith Beattie)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:03:22 -0700
Subject: how do you learn python APIs?
Message-ID: <3EF3BCEA.2030409@lbl.gov>

Hello,

I'm relatively new to python and would like to know how more seasoned python programmers learn new APIs.  My inclination (as a recent Java programmer) is to have a javadoc like interface, and pydoc is close, but the lack of types make it difficult so discern what a method does without other documentation.  Doing dir(foo) on objects directly in the interpreter which is helpful but, I guess I'd like to know what the pythonic way of doing things is, or ask how people go about learning a new module.

Thanks,
ksb





From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Jun 23 04:53:05 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:53:05 +0100
Subject: Python Mega widget doubt.
In-Reply-To: <20030621010200.57615.qmail@web41612.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030621010200.57615.qmail@web41612.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3EF6BFF1.9050001@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

Rajesh,


Yes could you please explain, perhaps with some example code.  I for one
do not understand exactly what you mean :-)

Regards,
Martin.



Rajesh Sudarsan wrote:

>Hi,
>Some one who replied to my following posting misunderstood the question. I know there is a getValue function to read the values of the Entry Widget. My situation is as follows:
> 
>I am working on a software tool which has different GUI windows for different menu items. And each GUI windows appears on the right side of the tool whenever it is clicked. All the widgets on each GUI window is created by parsing through individual XML files. All the above thing take place during loading of the tool. After loading, if I want to change the default value of a particular Entrywidget inside a particular GUI window, how can I get the handle for that particular GUI window so that I can access the EntryWidget.
> 
>I think my previous questions was little ambiguous.  If you do not understand my question, I will be glad to explain it again.
> 
>Thanx,
>Rajesh
> 
>***************************************************************************************
> 
>Hi,
>I am using PMW for creating a GUI. The input is given through XML file. A class parses through the XML file and creates the GUI using the PMW. The GUI consists of EntryWidgets and combo boxes. This is carried out at loading time. Now at runtime, when I change the value of these Entry Fields , how do I read these values? There are multiple XML files and hence multiple windows are created ..
>Please help..
>Regards,
>Rajesh
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
>SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
>
>  
>






From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jun  5 08:09:58 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:09:58 +0100
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com> <bbl9ao$mnr$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> <3ede2c5a$0$1379$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3EDF3316.2875BBDA@hotmail.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:

> Naw.  I'd recommend either a high-end sawz-all or a nice,
> old-fashioned 6 lb sledge.  Both are universally applicable to
> all problems.

Ha ha ha, :-D, this one me laugh out loud.

It reminds that of that other great truism:

Sometimes, when you've got a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

cheers,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From jack at performancedrivers.com  Tue Jun  3 11:48:08 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:48:08 -0400
Subject: pychecker checks files by executing them ??
In-Reply-To: <16092.48135.131983.708842@montanaro.dyndns.org>; from skip@pobox.com on Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 10:17:27AM -0500
References: <3EDCB6BF.1090909@molgen.mpg.de> <16092.48135.131983.708842@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20030603114808.C1163@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 10:17:27AM -0500, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
> As a pleasant side effect of this slight restructuring, your program might
> run faster.  Why that's so is left as an exercise for the reader. :-)
>

Ack-Thpt! IMO python's biggest wart is that locals are faster than globals.
Not that I would recomend slowing down locals to 'remove' the wart *wink*.
I cringe a bit every time I see the valid, but cargo-cultish

  si_local = StopIteration
  while (bigloop):
    try:  
      # do stuff
    except si_local:
      # other stuff

The only not crappy way to write the offending line is:
  si_local = StopIteration # proven speed hack for version 1.32 of this file on python 2.2.3, please remove and benchmark if running a newer version of either

or usually a shorter comment that means the same thing according to your local
style conventions.

-jack




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Thu Jun 19 12:43:12 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:43:12 -0700
Subject: Anyone using Venster?
In-Reply-To: <3ef182ca$0$13798$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
References: <3ef182ca$0$13798$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <200306190943.12214.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Thursday 19 June 2003 02:33 am, Guyon Mor?e wrote:
> Recently I discovered the 'Venster' package at http://venster.sf.net/
>
> I really like the idea of using this instead of the pywin/mfc stuff. The
> only problem is that there is almost no documentation and I can not find
> anything on the web/newsgroup about it.
>
> So i was wondering if anyone's using this and likes to share some code.

I've been playing around with it just a little bit. The project I'm working on 
has no need for cross-platform GUI support so a lightweight Windows-specific 
framework is pretty appealing (we're currently using wxPython, which is 
great, but the startup time and download size are huge compared to Venster's 
quick launching and tiny code base).

Anyway, on the ctypes mailing list Henk said that he had taken a break from 
Venster but was hoping to get going on it again soon, so now might be a good 
time to offer some help - others there might have some code to share too. 
Also, IIRC if you do a CVS grab of the Venster code (rather than what's been 
packaged up) there is a _tiny_ bit more documentation (notes, really, but 
still helpful).

-Dave




From i-jason at profitera.com  Tue Jun 17 22:13:00 2003
From: i-jason at profitera.com (Jason Ng)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:13:00 +0800
Subject: run a java program using python
Message-ID: <7F8C4F555E10204BB263C1C8DFD133782DCB6C@naboo.profitera.com>

can anyone please provide code in python to launch/run a java program using python.
 
Thanks in advance

From v.wehren at home.nl  Sat Jun 14 03:06:35 2003
From: v.wehren at home.nl (vincent wehren)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 09:06:35 +0200
Subject: Import and path problem
References: <949lev437d4ubu0mp74go0nbb4sut6tfnp@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bceh0f$1f9$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"Tung Wai Yip" <tungwaiyip at yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:949lev437d4ubu0mp74go0nbb4sut6tfnp at 4ax.com...
> I was using import in these two different styles. They worked the same
> for me.
>
> -----------------------------
>
> import m
> def foo():
>     m.bar()
>
> -----------------------------
>
> def foo():
>     import m
>     m.bar()
>
> -----------------------------
>
> Problem arise when I start the script from an arbitrary directory. It
> is easy enough for me to chdir() back to the script directory
>
>     pathname = os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0])
>     abspath = os.path.abspath(pathname)
>     os.chdir(abspath)
>
> However I find that the first style of import works alright. While the
> second style of import give this error
>
>     ImportError: No module named m
>
> It there a semantic difference on where you import? Why does the
> second one fails?

Frankly, I would expect both to fail. So I don't know...
>
> Also it only fails for user modules. System modules are OK.

The system modules are all in sys.path

Try adding :

    import sys
    sys.path.append('.')

to the script your executing.

Any user modules that live in the same directory as the module you are
executing should now import
o-k, irrespective of from where you are executing (i.e. what the cwd is).


Regards,
Vincent Wehren




>
> Wai yip
>
>





From apc1964 at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 15 21:43:41 2003
From: apc1964 at yahoo.com (FAT)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 18:43:41 -0700
Subject: Window Event
Message-ID: <f8c0dd0d.0306151743.6139f669@posting.google.com>

I would like to know how to write a python script that tells me when
the printer on lpt1 has been sent a new file to print from a windows
program on a win2000 machine. The printer is not networked.
I am trying to use this event as a cue to start my program.

ie
The printer recieves a new file to print,that cues my program to
start.


 
Thank you



From gh at ghaering.de  Sat Jun 21 12:14:57 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 18:14:57 +0200
Subject: dynamic creating of class
In-Reply-To: <bd1t5o$41p$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
References: <ulj8fvcs6483dh7khpl6jm6fsu26snnjv1@4ax.com>
	<bd1t5o$41p$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3EF48481.9010607@ghaering.de>

Salvatore wrote:
> Jaros?aw Zabie??o wrote:
> 
>> Is there a possibility for Python to dynamic binding of class?  I can
>> do it in PHP but I do not know how to make the same in Python. Look at 
>> the following example:
> 
> 
> I had the same problem and I don't remember who gave me the solution.
> The idea is to use 'eval'
> 
> class A:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.class_name = 'A'
> 
> class B:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.class_name = 'B'
> 
> 
> choosed_class = 'A'
> choosed_class += '()'
> instance_of_choosed_class = eval(choosed_class)
> 
> Thanks to the one who gave me the solution :-)

While this works, hee's a better solution:

chosen_class = A
instance_of_chosen_class = chosen_class()

Classes are just yet another type of object :)

-- Gerhard




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jun 10 12:42:18 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:42:18 -0400
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055004922.25555.python-list@python.org> <l1wufxh9g8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <3EE25DE1.5010408@geekabytes.net> <20030608002729.A3370@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus> <3EE4A002.5000307@geekabytes.net> <mailman.1055177098.5381.python-list@python.org> <Z5CdnXqinb512XijXTWcqA@comcast.com> <mailman.1055256424.6878.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nyednfJ6lYvMlnujXTWcqQ@comcast.com>

"Nielson Family" <junk at geekabytes.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1055256424.6878.python-list at python.org...
> Terry,
>
> I'm flattered you think my hack is  'clever' ;)
>
> I am curious... don't you think that using the name that an
anonymous
> function is assigned to within the anonymous function breaks the
concept
> of an anonymous function?

Sure, but to me, that's just a side-effect of being an expression.

TJR





From lyle at users.sourceforge.net  Mon Jun  2 10:40:13 2003
From: lyle at users.sourceforge.net (Lyle Johnson)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:40:13 -0500
Subject: horribly slimy segault c-extension
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.05.31.21.40.54.501364@asd.com>
References: <pan.2003.05.31.21.40.54.501364@asd.com>
Message-ID: <3EDB61CD.7080300@users.sourceforge.net>

John Does wrote:

> There should be no need for me to show all my code for this issue.
> 
> First off: i run a program and it sefaults normally, but when i run it
> through gdb it does not.
> 
> Here are the relevant lines of code:
> 
>         printf("q:%i \n",Q->ob_refcnt);
>         Py_DECREF(Q);
>         printf("qa:%i \n",Q->ob_refcnt);
>         Q = newQ ;
>         printf("qaa:%i \n",Q->ob_refcnt);
> 
> And the output:
> 
> q:1 
> Segmentation fault
> 
> Without asking me for any more code, can someone give me some precise steps that I could take to begin
> resolving/exposing this issue.

One issue you might investigate is whether the memory pointed-to by 'Q' 
has been trashed before the first line even executes. In other words, 
you may just be lucky (for some values of "lucky") that the part of the 
memory that the ob_refcnt field occupies wasn't corrupted, but the 
object as a whole is corrupted. You might try running your program 
through a memory debugging tool like Valgrind 
(http://developer.kde.org/~sewardj) to see what comes up.




From MK at foo.com  Wed Jun 25 11:11:34 2003
From: MK at foo.com (MK)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:11:34 +0200
Subject: Platform-independent way to refer to execute path
Message-ID: <bdce1p$rqsr5$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>

What would be the best platform-independent way to refer
to the current (execute) path for a Python script?

        self.dirname = ???

This variable should contain directory name for the current path.
It should work on every platform (Linux, Windows...). I'm
not interested in parsing this string. That is, simple

        f.write(self.dirname)

should work, withour ever peeking into the string. Thx,





From clpy.NOSPAM at russellsalsbury.com  Fri Jun 13 14:24:36 2003
From: clpy.NOSPAM at russellsalsbury.com (Russ Salsbury)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 11:24:36 -0700
Subject: Type hierarchy
References: <mailman.1055514878.28221.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4868482a.0306131024.12651e42@posting.google.com>

Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055514878.28221.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> For example:
> 
> object
>  |
>  +-- sequence
>  |    |
>  +-- immutable
>  |    |    |
>  +-- basestring
>  |    |    |    |
>  |    |    |    +-- string
>  |    |    |    +-- unicode
>  |    |    |
>  |    |    +-- tuple
>  |    |
>  |    +-- mutable
>  |         |
>  |         +-- list
>  |         +-- array
...

I think the type hierarchy in Python is a mess and should be repaired.
 If it is possible to set up a CLASS hierarchy independent of the type
hierarchy, which fixes the problems, then I'm all for it.  If the type
hierarchy can be fixed, even better.

The probelem is that strings are under sequences.  In all other
languages that I am familiar with, sequences are collections and
strings are something different, usually primitives or scalars.  I'm
sure a fair number of us have checked a function parameter for type
sequence, only to find that strings pass through unscathed.

I think collections should come under a Collection type/class

    Collection
         Sequence
             tuple
             list
         Mapping
             dict

and strings should go elsewhere.

Immutable should be orthogonal to the class hierachy.

Russ



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun 18 12:18:55 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:18:55 -0500
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
In-Reply-To: <yfs65n39z72.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com>
        <mailman.1055919632.16586.python-list@python.org>
        <rfVHa.105923$pR3.2320136@news1.tin.it>
        <yfs65n39z72.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <16112.37103.387170.473884@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> In 2.3, you can express this as dict(foo=1, bar='sean') without a
    >> need to define a function for the purpose.

    Alexander> Yuck! This seems like a really bad idea to me. This
    Alexander> effectively makes it impossible to specify any options (such
    Alexander> as initial size, default value etc.)  

I don't see that the behavior of dict() affects your ability to define the
behavior of a subclass.

Skip




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun 16 13:45:53 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:45:53 -0600
Subject: Loop from 'aaaa' to 'tttt' ?
In-Reply-To: <slrnberu4u.khj.lschaps@x11.informatik.uni-bremen.de>; from tuffi23@gmx.de on Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 05:04:30PM +0000
References: <slrnberu4u.khj.lschaps@x11.informatik.uni-bremen.de>
Message-ID: <20030616114553.A886@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Lars Schaps:
  [...]
> One idea i had is to take a number n with the base of
> 4 and use 
> 
> t= string.translate( '0123', 'acgt')
> string.translate( n, t)
> 
> But i don't know how to convert from base10 to base4.

There's a recipe in the Python Cookbook for base conversion:

    <http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65212>

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "The world will end if you get this wrong."
staschuk at telusplanet.net     -- "Typesetting Mathematics -- User's Guide",
                                 Brian Kernighan and Lorrinda Cherry




From alpot at mylinuxsite.com  Fri Jun  6 01:49:00 2003
From: alpot at mylinuxsite.com (hostmaster)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 13:49:00 +0800
Subject: Postfix/Prefix Operators (++,--)
Message-ID: <1054878539.22405.4.camel@mylinuxsite.com>

Hi,

Python doesn't seems to support postfix/prefix operators (e.g. i++,
--i).  Why?






From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jun 10 07:22:15 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:22:15 +0200
Subject: Rudeness with names (was Re: interpreted)
In-Reply-To: <bc3ong$i2h$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <M6icneVATOpIWn6jXTWcrg@comcast.com> <5yednTf1NoAdanmjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1055194463.17365.python-list@python.org> <bc3ong$i2h$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3EE5BF67.2040201@ghaering.de>

Aahz wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>>Ifman1 wrote:
>>
>>>what do you mean "anonymous coward"???
>>
>>Somebody not using their real name on usenet and using a pseudonym like 
>>"Ifman1" instead. I call these people "anonymous cowards" :-)^
>>
>>In some cases it's their intention to use these pseudonyms, in some 
>>cases they just haven't set up their mail client properly. In any case, 
>>I give them a nudge this way.
> 
> Well, I wasn't paying much attention earlier, but I have to say that I
> consider this rather rude.  How the heck do you know what someone's
> "real name" is?  

I can't know. But then there are cases where someone just was careless 
when configuring his/her mail/news client. That's why I give them a 
nudge in case they weren't aware of it. If they *are* aware of it, they 
can ignore it :)

I too feel offended by:

- anonymous posters
- top-posting
- broken quoting

In one word: carelessness.

Occasionally I will make originators aware of this. If you can't live 
with this, feel free to killfile me.

> I say this as someone who received more than my fair
> share of such rudeness.

Ditto for me and the above rudenesses.

There's probably little point in continuing this discussion on 
python-list, though IMO. Reply-To set.

-- Gerhard





From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jun 21 16:14:00 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:14:00 -0400
Subject: WTF is Fibonnacci
References: <7inIa.55233$Io.5225846@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <I1oIa.9952$5d.738838@news20.bellglobal.com> <G22Ja.570$HI.61785282@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3EF4BC88.1AE3696F@engcorp.com>

Byron Morgan wrote:
> 
> Which reminds me of the IQ test usually failed by anyone over the age of 7:
> 
> Find the pattern in this series:
> 1 11 21 1112 3112 211213 312213 212223 114213
> Or at least I think that is it.

References please, for the implied claim that this is a test that is passed by 
normal children under the age of 8?

(Or did you mean to imply that the test is _always_ failed by those under
the age of 8?)

-Peter



From mike at bindkey.com  Thu Jun  5 15:36:09 2003
From: mike at bindkey.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:36:09 -0700
Subject: (no subject)
References: <C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7F3A@MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM>
Message-ID: <bbo5uj$ack$1@main.gmane.org>

Message"Leeds, Mark" <mleeds at mlp.com> wrote in message
news:C497480353EF904FBF7A8B0851E5422C9F7F3A at MAIL002.AD.MLP.COM...
>i have a date, say as a string 26Nov2002 and i want to convert it to a
string >20021126.
Your problem that your don't have a date ;)
You have a string and nobody except you knows that is a date.
There modules (time in the standard library and others) that have their own
notion about date represented as string and AFAIK none of them is same as
yours.

>it's probably possible to write a function to do this by creating
>a table of months to numbers but I was hoping that
>there was some kind of python function i could use instead ?

So custom function may be best suited for you in that situation.

def num_date(str_date):
  assert len(str_date)==9, 'Date format shall be DDMONYYYY'
  assert type(str_date)==type(''), 'Date shall be a string'
  d,m,y=str_date[:2], str_date[2:5], str_date[5:]

month=['Jan','Feb','Mar','Apr','May','Jun','Jul','Aug','Sep','Oct','Nov','De
c']
  try: n=month.index(m)
  except ValueError: raise ValueError, "Can't convert month "+m
  return '%s%02d%s' % (y,n,d)

Only you know how much test you need for input data:
- can day be 1 digit,
- do you have to check date and year ranges
and so on.

OTOH, if you need variety of input data then you might go for say time
module, but you have to convert your data then and/or dial with platform
restriction (say time.strptime() function for parsing string is available on
unix only).

Regards,
Mike







From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Jun 30 11:53:01 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:53:01 -0300
Subject: Idiomatic way of repeating items in a sequence.
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D018856B1@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- def repeatitems(L, n):
#-     out = []
#-     for i in L:
#-         out.extend([i]*n)
#-     return out
#- 
#- Sometimes a for loop is better :-)

Whitout a lambda and without a for:

def repeatitems(L, n):
	return [x for x in L*n]

CAUTION: the resulting list is not in the same order of your example:

>>> repeatitems(['a', 'b', 'c'], 3)
['a', 'b', 'c', 'a', 'b', 'c', 'a', 'b', 'c']




From maurix78_remove_this_ at wanadoo.es  Thu Jun 19 14:21:09 2003
From: maurix78_remove_this_ at wanadoo.es (Maurix)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:21:09 GMT
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
References: <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6@posting.google.com>	 <eppstein-0047EB.09403118062003@news.service.uci.edu>	 <3EF0AAFB.DDA5F555@engcorp.com>	 <eppstein-1DFD94.11562718062003@news.service.uci.edu> <mailman.1055963977.23134.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EF1FF16.8000803@wanadoo.es>

What about None??
[x for x, y in zip(L, [None]+L) if x != y]
If is "None" who want it in a list?? ;-)




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Jun  1 17:28:47 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 23:28:47 +0200
Subject: Pre Python
In-Reply-To: <bbdqg2$82bnq$1@ID-59332.news.dfncis.de>
References: <bbdqg2$82bnq$1@ID-59332.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20030601212847.GB4826@nl.linux.org>

Bror Johansson schreef op zondag  1 juni om 23:21:14 +0000:
> Is Python's "predecessor" ABC (for MS-DOS) still available somewhere?

http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/abc/

Guido links it on his homepage.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
46. If he do not receive a fixed rental for his field, but lets it on
half or third shares of the harvest, the grain on the field shall be
divided proportionately between the tiller and the owner. 
        -- Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From 2002 at weholt.org  Sat Jun 21 07:14:00 2003
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 13:14:00 +0200
Subject: FOAF-parser??
Message-ID: <M6XIa.8186$Hb.144201@news4.e.nsc.no>

Hi,

I need a FOAF[1]-parser that can handle deep-hierarchy of nodes ( ie.
Friends knowing friends knowing friends etc. )  So far I've looked at
Tramp[2] and RDFLib, but they don't seem to fit the task somehow. All I want
is to parse a FOAF-file and get a list of persons back, each person may
again have a list of persons he/she knows etc. My attempts so far has been a
terrible mess of SAX, pulldom and rdflib.

Any help would be highly appreciated.

[1] : http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/
[2] : http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/tramp

Best regards,
Thomas Weholt





From snag at jool.po  Mon Jun 23 10:40:47 2003
From: snag at jool.po (kpop)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:40:47 +0100
Subject: division
References: <f2sJa.19621$pK2.28535@news.indigo.ie> <slrnbfcp0s.gfb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <yLtJa.19625$pK2.28527@news.indigo.ie> <okuJa.1035$Fe3.161376@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <xeIJa.19712$pK2.28637@news.indigo.ie>

"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:okuJa.1035$Fe3.161376 at news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > > The problem is division, I would like it that only exact division
was
> > > > aloud, I mean no remainders.
>
> > > > i would like if that was illegal because 5 doesnt go into 22 , 4
times
> > > > exactly, and have the eval function raise an execption which i could
> > > > handle.
>
>
> I'm not going to ask why you want this behaviour, I'm just going to offer
a
> quick, dirty, and possibly buggy solution.
>
> This code relies on the following assumptions:
> [1]  You want to ensure that *only* exact division can occur
> [2]  The only numbers your users can *ever* enter are integers,  i.e.
'2.0
> + 3.14' will raise an exception.
>
> So, for this to work, you'll need to somehow ensure [2]. A more reliable
> solution would be to make your own simple interpreter. I would recommend
> checking out SPARK. There are examples available with the software that
you
> could extend to fit your problem domain. Anyway, here's some code. I won't
> guarantee its robustness, I'll just say it appears to work.
>
>
> import re
>
> class ExactDivisionError(Exception):
>     pass
>
> class myint(int):
>     def __div__(self, other):
>         "does exact division only"
>         quotient, remainder = divmod(self, other)
>         if remainder:
>             raise ExactDivisionError, "exact division only"
>         return quotient
>
>
> def replaceint(match):
>     "substitues 'myint(integer)' for each matched integer"
>     return 'myint(%s)'% match.string[match.start():match.end()]
>
>
>
> # some testing...
> pattern = re.compile(r'\d+')        # matches integers
> txt = '2 + 22/5'
> txt = pattern.sub(replaceint, txt)
> print txt        # 'myint(2) + myint(22)/myint(5)'
>
> try:
>     result = eval(txt)        # this will raise an exception for 'txt'
>     print result
> except ExactDivisionError:
>     print "ExactDivisionError"
>
>
> Hope that's helpful,
> Sean
>
>

That works great for simple 2 number ones

txt = pattern.sub(replaceint, "4/3")
eval(txt)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<string>", line 0, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 6, in __div__
__main__.ExactDivisionError: exact division only


bit if the user types something more complex like
>>> txt = pattern.sub(replaceint, "((4 * 5) -2) / 5  ")
>>> eval(txt)
3

it doesnt raise an exception even though im dividing
18 / 5 which doesnt go evenly .






















From yweng at cs.uoregon.edu  Sat Jun 14 15:52:51 2003
From: yweng at cs.uoregon.edu (Yan Weng)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 12:52:51 -0700
Subject: Documentation Tool & UML
References: <a35b36be.0306120912.40bf916f@posting.google.com> <bcbb1j$ho7$1@pith.uoregon.edu> <871xxwhirl.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bcfv17$m0i$1@pith.uoregon.edu>

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:871xxwhirl.fsf at pobox.com...
> "Yan Weng" <yweng at cs.uoregon.edu> writes:
> [...]
> > A much easier way is getting a java based UML tools and using javacc +
its
> > python script to generate python code. But you have to know java before
you
> > do this.
> [...]
>
> "its [javacc's] python script"?  What's that, and how does it let you
> generate Python code from UML?
>
Sorry. I confused you. Actually, I mean we need some "two ways" thing:
We can parse python script and generate scripts. When we make some changes
in the script, it can be reflected in UML. So I think a python parse is
necessary.
BTW, Javacc's python grammer is from Jython.

--
Yan Weng
yweng at cs.uoregon.edu
http://www.cs.uoregon.edu/~yweng/





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 19 09:31:17 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:31:17 +0100
Subject: (newbie)list conversion problem
References: <bcsc56$9k0$1@sunce.iskon.hr>
Message-ID: <3EF1BB25.2FFA3E16@hotmail.com>

Boris Genz wrote:

> I want to translate list of strings into identical list of integers. To
> clear things up, here is an example:
> I want this list: ['7659', '33', '454', '445'] to change in something
> like this: [7659, 33, 454, 445].
> I'm sure this is possible, and here is what I tried:
> x = ['7659', '33', '454', '445']
> for elements in x:
>   group = []
>   group.append(int(elements))

You were nearly right. There are a couple of small points to make

1. When you say "for elements in x", you may be slightly confused. It would be
better to say "for element in x" (no s), because "for" goes through the list one
entry at a time.

2. You should initialise the group list *before* you enter the for loop. The way
you have it now, your group list is reset to empty every time through the loop.

A version of your code that works is

x = ['7659', '33', '454', '445']
group = []
for element in x:
  group.append(int(element))

Another way to do it, using python "list comprehensions", introduced in python
2.0, is like this

group = [int(elem) for elem in x]

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From ivan.nazarenko at uol.com.br  Fri Jun  6 16:38:03 2003
From: ivan.nazarenko at uol.com.br (ivannaz)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 13:38:03 -0700
Subject: Repeated assignments - a more elegant approach (newbie)
References: <67e2f348.0306050942.62aa6074@posting.google.com> <eppstein-BD4E72.11232005062003@news.service.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <67e2f348.0306061238.5f986a40@posting.google.com>

David Eppstein <eppstein at ics.uci.edu> wrote in message 
> > Suppose I have the following code:
> > 
> > if a > 0:
> >     mna += a
> >     cnta += 1
> > if b > 0:
> >     mnb += b
> >     cntb += 1
> > if c > 0:
> >     mnc += c
> >     cntc += 1
> > ... and so on, until 'z'
> > 

> The obvious thing to do is to replace your large number of separate 
> variables mnx, cntx, etc with three lists.  Also spell out your variable 
> names rather than making cryptic abbreviations for them
> 
> instead of a variable 'x' use value[i]
> instead of a variable mnx use mean[i]
> instead of a variable cntx use count[i]
> 
> then you could just do
> 
> for i in range(len(value)):
>     if value[i] > 0:
>         mean[i] += value[i]
>         count[i] += 1
> 
> You could also use dictionaries instead of lists if you prefer them to 
> be keyed by strings instead of integers.

Thank you all for the answers. The vars names are not quite mna, mnt,
etc, but actually name of different instruments whose data are being
averaged. The idea of a dictionary seems cool, as well as simply
making an ordinary list.



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jun 10 10:13:55 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:13:55 +0200
Subject: Rudeness with names (was Re: interpreted)
In-Reply-To: <bc4p33$pp0$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <M6icneVATOpIWn6jXTWcrg@comcast.com> <mailman.1055194463.17365.python-list@python.org> <bc3ong$i2h$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1055244679.25761.python-list@python.org> <bc4p33$pp0$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3EE5E7A3.5070503@ghaering.de>

Aahz wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>> [Aahz didn't like me calling anonymous posters "anonymous cowards"]
>>I too feel offended by:
>>
>>- anonymous posters
>>- top-posting
>>- broken quoting
>>
>>In one word: carelessness.
>>
>>Occasionally I will make originators aware of this. If you can't live 
>>with this, feel free to killfile me.
> 
> That's fine, and you may recall that I've made comments about top-posting
> and broken quoting in the past.  But one needn't be rude and insulting
> when doing so, particularly in the first response to any given person --
> that's not a "nudge".  A better response would be something like,
> "Should I call you 'Ifman1'?"

Ok, good point. Thanks for the constructive criticism.

-- Gerhard





From benoit.besse at club-internet.fr  Thu Jun 19 06:09:29 2003
From: benoit.besse at club-internet.fr (Benoit BESSE)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:09:29 +0200
Subject: Binary adresse for localhost
Message-ID: <3ef18bc1$0$14312$7a628cd7@news.club-internet.fr>

Hi,
for "224.4.0.1" the binary adresse is 0xe0040001L.
What is the corresponding convertion for 127.0.0.1.
Thanks





From belred1 at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  5 21:36:06 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 01:36:06 GMT
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
References: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <20030604.153007.243268139.11567@nets.com>
Message-ID: <aeSDa.57206$DV.81029@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

is QT free for personal and commercial use?  if not, QT is not an option for
me.  that leaves TK and wxPython for cross-platfrom GUI, which means i
really only have one choice... wxPython.  i found by using the windows help
form of the docs, i was able to move around and find everything i needed.

bryan

"Jay O'Connor" <joconnor at nets.com> wrote in message
news:20030604.153007.243268139.11567 at nets.com...
> In article <bbl8b5$1uso$1 at biggoron.nerim.net>, "Aur?lien G?ron"
> <ageron at hohohohovideotron.ca> wrote:
>
> > I'm sure beginners would come to love Python even faster if they could
> > truly create their first GUI in minutes.  I'm voting for wxPython to
> > replace Tk in the future Python distribution.
> >
> > Any comments on this ? Anyone else want to vote ?
>
> I had such a bad experience using TCL on one job that I rufuse to use Tk,
> simply because of the association :)
>
>
> -- 
> Jay O'Connor
> http://www.r4h-music.com
>
> "God Himself plays the bass strings first,
> when He tunes the soul"





From dave at boost-consulting.com  Fri Jun 20 10:04:13 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:04:13 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com>
 <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <3EEDEDBE.BCB56D6E@engcorp.com> <HGMnCw.5tM@arl.mil>
 <un0gg6ve3.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <873ci7o7c0.fsf@pobox.com>
 <yfsllvx7boi.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <uadcconfm.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> writes:

> jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:
>
>> David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> writes:
>> 
>> > Brandon Corfman <bcorfman at amsaa.army.mil> writes:
>> > 
>> > > I think the problem is that a C++/Java programmer regards the Python
>> > > command prompt as little more than a calculator or a place to type
>> > > "prog.main()". I know I did at first.
>> > 
>> > Ever try to write a class with more than 2 methods at the
>> > command-line?  After screwing it up several times I always revert to
>> > emacs <wink>.
>> 
>> I agree with this.  I don't know what all the fuss is about with the
>> interactive prompt. 
>
> Maybe you're just not using it in the most effective manner (possibly because
> your problems don't profit that much from it).

Don't get me wrong, I love the interactive command-prompt.  I mostly
use it to explore the language:

   >>> help(whatever)

and the ability to test ideas with types, descriptors, and metaclasses
which actually need to be coded in C++ (though the limit of complexity
of what I can try without wasting my time retyping whole class
definitions is *very* low at the prompt), and to discover the actual
behaviors hidden in underdocumented parts of the language, is
invaluable.

Anything that has more "heft" to it I need a good record of anyway.
At the very least I'll use the command-prompt from within emacs ;-)

> What good IDEs do you have in mind? The only ones I've ever seen are
> for dynamically typed languages such as smalltalk.
>
> If you essentially just emulate write-compile-run cycles with python
> you might not notice that much of a difference to a statically typed
> mainstream language such as C++ or Java.
>
> But believe me, there is a *huge* difference between being for
> example able to interactively explore and modify some complicated
> data or code and not being able to do so.

For example?  Always willing to learn how to use Python more effectively.

>> Maybe only me and David make lots of mistakes at the interactive prompt ;-)
>
> The idea is not to write the bulk of your code in an interactive
> prompt -- the idea is to write the bulk of your code with your
> editor/IDE whatever and then have it evaluated in a running
> interactive session upon keypress. If something goes wrong the
> debugger should automatically pop up and go to the matching source
> code line. You can than look at and interact with live objects in
> the debugging session to find out what's going wrong, fix the piece
> of code in your editor and evaluate it (and not the whole program)
> again. 

Has someone really straightened out the situation with Python
debuggers?  Last time I looked there was no JIT debugging, and no way
to set a conditional breakpoint in a long-running test without waiting
forever as Python calls the debugger hook on every instruction (or
statement, I forget).  Last time I talked to Guido about fixing the
latter problem he said "you're using Python the wrong way".  The
lesson I took away from it was: hold your nose and modify the code
(which often is from a 3rd party) with debugging checks and print
statements if you want to figure out what's going on.

I'd love it if things had gotten better.  Did I miss some improvement?

> If you want to see or edit the source code for some object it
> only takes a single short command. Writing test code also becomes
> much more fun.

Err, isn't there a longstanding issue with getting modules to be
reloaded appropriately and all cross-references resolved when you do
this?

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From bradley at greystate.com  Wed Jun 11 20:08:17 2003
From: bradley at greystate.com (Bradley Schatz)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:08:17 GMT
Subject: pythonCOM with Flash
Message-ID: <RvPFa.37$zx6.1430@news.optus.net.au>

Hi,

I am attempting to use Flash as a UI for a python program. I have
successfully prototyped this using VB/Flash, and am not trying to convert it
over to work with python.

My problem is this, when I run the following code (attached below) nothing
happens.

I assume that the Flash activex component needs to be placed in some
container to be seen, as I am not seeing any window come up when I run this.

Could anyone suggest how to embed this into a container?

Many thanks,

Bradley



# Flashevents - test flash/python interop
from win32com.client import DispatchWithEvents, Dispatch
import msvcrt, pythoncom
import time, sys
import types

import threading
stopEvent = threading.Event()

def TestFlash():
    class FlashEvents:
 def OnFSCommand(self, command, args):
  print "FSCommend" , command
 def OnProgress(self, percentDone):
  print "PercentDone", percentDone
 def OnReadyStateChange(self, newState):
  print "State", newState

    e = DispatchWithEvents("ShockwaveFlash.ShockwaveFlash", FlashEvents)
    e.seen_events = {}
    e.LoadMovie(0,
"http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/afassets/flash/hump_starwars.swf")
    e.Play()
    if not _WaitForFinish(e, 10000):
        e.Quit()



def _WaitForFinish(ob, timeout):
    end = time.time() + timeout
    while 1:
        if msvcrt.kbhit():
            msvcrt.getch()
            break
        pythoncom.PumpWaitingMessages()
        stopEvent.wait(.2)
        if stopEvent.isSet():
            stopEvent.clear()
            break

    return 1


def test():
    import sys
    TestFlash()

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()






From billa at hp.com  Wed Jun 11 17:52:28 2003
From: billa at hp.com (Bill Anderson)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:52:28 -0600
Subject: simple text filter
References: <f903b9dd.0306111236.1ca87c93@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.11.21.52.27.557245@hp.com>

On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:36:52 -0700, boutros wrote:

> I need some help on a simple text filter. The problem I am having is
> when the file comes to the end it stays in the while loop and does not
> exit. I cannot figure this out. I would use a for loop with the
> readlines() but my datasets can range from 5 to 80 MB of text data.
> Here is the code I am using. Please help.
> 
> import sys, re
> 
> p1 = re.compile('ADT100')
> p2 = re.compile('AUDIT')
> p3 = re.compile('HARDWARE')
> p4 = re.compile('PACKAGES')
> p5 = re.compile('NODE')
> p6 = re.compile('DROP')
> p7 = re.compile('GRID')
> p8 = re.compile('ATAP')

If you are using Python <= 2 (?) you can instead do:

while 1:
    line = f.readline()
    if not line:
        break
    if line.find('AUDIT') > -1:
        stuff
    elif line.find('HARDWARE') > -1:
        more stuff
 

Of course, the "if not line: break" is not Python 2 specific.






From wordplayer at doubleletter  Wed Jun 18 05:48:19 2003
From: wordplayer at doubleletter (Alpha)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 13:48:19 +0400
Subject: accessing cd label from python
Message-ID: <3EF03563.5000201@doubleletter>

Hi,

How can I access the label of a mounted cd, from python ?

Any ideas are appreciated.

Regards, Ahsan




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jun 13 14:14:06 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:14:06 -0400
Subject: Changing File Permissions
References: <bcakmg$jv7$1@news-reader14.wanadoo.fr> <bcctqv$255v$1@news.peterlink.ru> <bcd15p$61p$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr> <mailman.1055527047.19795.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EEA146E.5B5B0704@engcorp.com>

Justin Johnson wrote:
> 
> I'm trying to remove a file on a win2k box, but the readonly bit is set,
> so I get an exception trying to os.remove it.  I'd prefer if I didn't
> have to run an attrib -r command, and write something a little more
> platform independent.  Is there some sort of chmod method that would
> handle this?

>>> import os
>>> print os.chmod.__doc__
chmod(path, mode) -> None
Change the access permissions of a file.

-Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jun 17 15:02:47 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 19:02:47 GMT
Subject: analyzing lock contention in multi-threaded app?
References: <16111.3154.71808.325818@montanaro.dyndns.org> <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHIEGOFPAA.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1055868091.20865.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcnokn$mfj$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:40:21 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:
[...]
>I can see I was too vague in my description.  I'm not really concerned with
>deadlock since no thread holds more than one lock at a time.  I'm more
>interested in knowing if a thread had to wait to get a lock or take an
>object off the queue.
What about using time.clock() to measure the wait you are concerned with?
You could classify the wait times and count occurrences in the categories
something like (untested!)
   counts = [0]*nslots
   ...
   dt = time.clock() # hopefully thread-safe
   # acquire lock or whatever
   dt = time.clock-dt
   counts[min(int(dt*scale),nslots-1)] +=1 # for some scale that maps the common
   ...

Then you could print a histogram that should tell you something about the
distribution of waiting time. You'll have to fiddle with scale and nslots
to represent your reality with appropriate detail.

You could make a class and use a global instance to collect the data in self.counts
for whatever initialized nslots and scale. And maybe have print and clear methods etc.
If you access the latter from an interactive thread, I guess you might need a lock
for the counts data...

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tim.harford at rogers.com  Sat Jun 21 03:19:30 2003
From: tim.harford at rogers.com (Tim)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 07:19:30 GMT
Subject: mod_python hell in Apache/Windows XP
Message-ID: <6GTIa.32066$111.24282@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

I've read all the posts and tried just about everything. No matter what,
Apache says it can't find the mod_python module!

Please help :-)

Tim





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jun  8 11:48:21 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 09:48:21 -0600
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
In-Reply-To: <l1brx8hm8d.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>; from ed@membled.com on Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 11:55:46AM +0100
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0306070837.789f2a9f@posting.google.com> <l13cilipsy.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055032216.26858.python-list@python.org> <l1brx8hm8d.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <20030608094821.B3782@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ed Avis:
  [...]
> Oh.  I thought someone said on this newsgroup only a few days ago that
> they did not, when I mentioned that
> 
>     cond and x or y
> 
> is a well-known substitute for a conditional operator like C's
> (cond ? x : y) or Haskell's (if cond then x else y).  Someone said
> that it wouldn't work, because x and y would be evaluated in either
> case.

No.  Here's what Terry said:

    "This conditional selection expression (which I have used) works as a
    substitute for part of certain if-else statements if and only if 
    bool(if_expression) == True [...]"

By "if_expression" here he means what you call "x" above.  Note
what happens if x is false:

    >>> cond = True
    >>> cond and 0 or 1
    1

This form works only for true x.  There's another form, as Terry
discovered back in February, which works for false x (and only for
false x).  But obviously one would prefer an expression which has
the desired behaviour no matter what x is.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"What I find most baffling about that song is that it was not a hit."
                                          -- Tony Dylan Davis (CKUA)




From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Sun Jun 22 23:49:43 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:49:43 +1200
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <1056084953.994309@yasure>
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <bcre27$mci8i$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <1056084953.994309@yasure>
Message-ID: <bd5rtt$pis3f$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Donn Cave wrote:
> There's a huge difference between optional type annotation
> and a system that requires you to declare the type of every
> single thing.

Now that I think about it for a few moments longer,-)
you're probably right. I only felt the need to give
types for functions, not local variables, etc...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun 16 10:13:50 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:13:50 -0400
Subject: getting info out of a list.
References: <7tntr-qa9.ln1@grendel.myth> <bcka31$12ka$1@news.peterlink.ru>
Message-ID: <3EEDD09E.B008E957@engcorp.com>

anton muhin wrote:
> 
>   And just my two cents: your for loop could be rewritten a little bit
> more effeciently and (IMHO) clearly:
> 
> for wires, names in wirelist.iteritems():
>       Wire = ("GW", wires) + bits
>       print Wire

With a now-undefined name "bits" ... ;-)



From taral at taral.net  Tue Jun  3 14:28:13 2003
From: taral at taral.net (Taral)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:28:13 -0500
Subject: Proposed extension to file constructor
Message-ID: <20030603182813.GB1366@taral.net>

I needed to extend popen functionality, so I modified the file
constructor to optionally take a file descriptor. It was, in my opinion,
the minimum way to do it while preserving isinstance(x, file).

The full discussion and patch is on sourceforge at
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=305470&aid=608182&group_id=5470
-- but someone said I should ask here to solicit comment on it.

Anyone?

-- 
Taral <taral at taral.net>
This message is digitally signed. Please PGP encrypt mail to me.
"Most parents have better things to do with their time than take care of
their children." -- Me
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From cavada at irst.itc.it  Mon Jun 23 03:58:07 2003
From: cavada at irst.itc.it (Roberto Cavada)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:58:07 +0200
Subject: ANN: Pyrex 0.8
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1056341223.23258.clpa-moderators@python.org>
References: <mailman.1056341223.23258.clpa-moderators@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EF6B30F.8070407@irst.itc.it>

Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de) wrote:
> Pyrex 0.8 is now available:
> 
>    http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/

Greg,
   I gave a look to pyrex, and it seems to be satisfying the 
requirements for object-oriented C bindings.
I think it is good since it allows for choosing which level to work 
on. At lower level you can control any aspect of the interface, 
whereas at higher level the interfacing language is generic enough to 
allow easy auto-generation, as well as SWIG already does.

You done a great work, thank you very much indeed to made it available.

One question: when are you going to add class inheritance?
rob


-- 
   _/_/_/   _/_/_/   Roberto Cavada
  _/   _/ _/        ITC-irst   http://www.irst.itc.it
_/   _/ _/        Automated Reasoning Systems - Formal Methods Group
/_/_/  _/        Via Sommarive, 18 - 38050 Povo (TN) - Italy
    _/  _/       Tel: +39 0461 314 328   Fax: +39 0461 302 040
     _/   _/_/  cavada at irst.itc.it   http://sra.itc.it/people/cavada





From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Wed Jun 18 13:51:59 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:51:59 -0600
Subject: pack and unpack problems
In-Reply-To: <20030618093133.B637@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
References: <20030618014303.0DCCB269AC@www.fastmail.fm> <bcohoe$ssd$1@main.gmane.org> <20030618031443.7E45535B85@www.fastmail.fm> <20030618093133.B637@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
Message-ID: <20030618175159.8230036024@www.fastmail.fm>

Thanks a bunch.  That is very helpful.

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:31:33 -0600, "Steven Taschuk"
<staschuk at telusplanet.net> said:
> Quoth Justin Johnson:
> > Would you mind explaining this for me?  What do you mean by check
> > alignment?  Sorry, this is kinda new for me.  In the meantime I'll go
> > read my orielly tcp book.  :-)
> 
> Some architectures constrain (some) values to occur "aligned" at
> certain boundaries in memory.  Structs on such platforms might
> need padding between their members to ensure proper alignment;
> e.g., instances of
>     struct foo {
>         char a;
>         int b;
>     }
> might be organized in memory by the C compiler as
>     0     1     2     3     4     5     6     7     8
>     |  a  |     padding     |           b           |
> where the padding makes sure b is aligned properly, but is not
> otherwise used.  (Obviously here the whole struct must also be
> aligned.)
> 
> But if you're parsing UDP packets, you know the exact layout and
> don't care what the platform's C compiler would do with a struct
> declaration.  Thus you want '!' for "standard alignment", which is
> to say, no alignment required at all.  ('!' also implies network
> byte order; see the docs.)
> 
> (Header layouts are, I suspect, designed with this kind of thing
> in mind, so values are aligned in sensible ways anyway.  Thus
> "parsing" a UDP packet in C could be as simple as casting a void *
> to a struct udpheader *.)
> 
> -- 
> Steven Taschuk                                    
> staschuk at telusplanet.net
> Receive them ignorant; dispatch them confused.  (Weschler's Teaching
> Motto)
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun 16 13:29:17 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:29:17 -0400
Subject: popen2.Popen3 on Windows
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <m1tpevcasprfdirat1h3mg1go5atq4vsst@4ax.com> <3eecfae8$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <v1qrev8vokng7f6bhi6dudphbpkuvjoe80@4ax.com> <mailman.1055779769.31272.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EEDFE6D.4BE473A5@engcorp.com>

Justin Johnson wrote:
> 
> I need a way to run an external command, grab its output (stdout,stderr)
> and get a return status for the command.  It seems like popen2.Popen3
> (Note the upper case "P") is the way to do this, but it only works on
> unix.  Is there a way to get this info on Windows?

You might get more or better replies if you create your posting as
a new one, rather than replying to an existing one and changing the
subject.  Many news and mail readers will do "threading" which means
your article will show up as part of the discussion to which you 
replied, and many people will have killed that thread (and thus
never see your question) by now.

Sorry I can't answer the specific question.

-Peter



From lazypointer at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 21 15:28:33 2003
From: lazypointer at yahoo.com (Byron Morgan)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:28:33 GMT
Subject: Zlib dictionary
References: <d75d795f.0306210032.238abe54@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Bl2Ja.577$6N.62049428@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>

I haven't used Zlib, but it looks as though it is at least somewhat
possible.

>>> import zlib
>>> data = {'Name':'Spam','Pet':'ex-Parrot'}
>>> dataz = zlib.compress(repr(data))
>>> eval(zlib.decompress(dataz))['Name']
'Spam'
>>>

Byron Morgan

"Miki" <janezgd at email.si> wrote in message
news:d75d795f.0306210032.238abe54 at posting.google.com...
> Hi
>
> Is it possible, with the Zlib library in Python, to compress some text
> data with a dictionary built on some other text? Is it possible to
> somehow access the dictionary after the compression and reuse it in
> another compression?
>
> Thanky you,
>
> Janez





From dwblas at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  5 21:05:45 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (DavidW Blaschke)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:05:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to reply????
Message-ID: <20030606010545.8684.qmail@web21609.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm using a yahoo account --> http://groups.yahoo.com
I've tried both Opera and Firebird and get the same
result.  I belong to other groups, but only have the
problem with this group.  With an e-mail client does
one still use groups.yahoo.com or
python-list at python.org?

Thanks
D.W.

> --- In python-list at yahoogroups.com, Paul McNett
> <p at u...> wrote:
> > DavidW Blaschke writes:
> > 
> > > When I hit the reply button I get 3 choices:
> > >     1. python-list at c...
> > >     2. the e-mail address of the person who
> posted
> > >     3. python-list-owner at yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > I think I want to post to python-list at p...
> > > Does anyone have a good way to do this without
> cutting
> > > and pasting the message into compose, and
> mailing it
> > > as normal e-mail?
> > 
> > What email client are you using? I'm using KMail,
> and if I hit 
> 'reply' (R) 
> > it will go to the original sender, if I hit
> "reply-all" (A) it will 
> go to 
> > the original sender as well as python-list at p... If
> I hit 
> > "reply-list" (L) it will just go to
> python-list at p...
> > 
> > Are you accessing this list via comp.lang.python
> (usenet) or via 
> > python-list at p... (email)?
> > 
> > -- 
> > Paul McNett
> > 
> > --
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com




From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sat Jun 21 16:46:26 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 21:46:26 +0100
Subject: how do you learn python APIs?
References: <mailman.1056161079.27203.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yfsr85n5fbx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Keith Beattie <KSBeattie at lbl.gov> writes:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm relatively new to python and would like to know how more seasoned python
> programmers learn new APIs. 

If its part of the standard python distribution, by reading the library
reference (http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/lib.html). Otherwise, mainly
by using interactive sessions to read docstrings and navigate the source if
necessary.

> My inclination (as a recent Java programmer) is
> to have a javadoc like interface, and pydoc is close, but the lack of types
> make it difficult so discern what a method does without other documentation.

I generally have no such difficulty. Maybe the module you looked at was just
poorly documented? If documentation is poor, looking at the source is the
thing to do, frequent reading of well-written code will also quickly improve
your python skills. Another useful skill is good emacs knowledge which can
greatly speed up navigating other people's and your own code code (e.g. learn
to use `igrep-find` and above all `isearch` effectively).

> Doing dir(foo) on objects directly in the interpreter which is helpful but,
> I guess I'd like to know what the pythonic way of doing things is, or ask
> how people go about learning a new module.

My personal recommendation is to use ipython from within emacs. Ipython
(http://ipython.scipy.org), amongst many other benefits makes it very
convinient to get info, documentation and source code for a module, function,
class or object. Try `foo?` and `foo??` to get info on object foo at different
levels of detail and `edit foo` to edit source code of object `foo` in your
editor. Last but not least, trying things out in the interactive prompt can
be a great way of figuring out what something does and how.

> 
> Thanks,
> ksb
> 
> 

'as



From news-and-lists at the-me.de  Thu Jun 26 11:07:48 2003
From: news-and-lists at the-me.de (Axel Bock)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:07:48 +0200
Subject: catch non-blocking socket exceptions
References: <pan.2003.06.26.15.03.11.490413@the-me.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.26.15.07.48.900172@the-me.de>

Am Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:03:11 +0200 schrieb Axel Bock:

> Hi all, 
> 
> I try to connect to several hosts at once to verify whether a certain
> [...blorf...]
>

or better still - does someone know how to set the tcp timeout value? THIS
would greatly simplyfy my task :-)


Thanks again & greetings (again), 

		Axel.




From gupt_vive at hotmail.com  Tue Jun  3 04:58:34 2003
From: gupt_vive at hotmail.com (vivek kumar)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 14:28:34 +0530
Subject: Exception - how to ignore it ?
Message-ID: <Law15-F60tSKBY0yvmh00000ef7@hotmail.com>



>From: "Helmut Jarausch" <jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
>Reply-To: jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de
>To: python-list at python.org
>Subject: Exception - how to ignore it ?
>Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:40:42 +0200
>
>Hi,
>
>is it possible for an exception handler
>to just e.g. print something and set some
>global flags but then to have the script
>continue just after the statement which
>raised the exception?
>
>Thanks for a hint,
>
>Helmut Jarausch

If you know exactly where and which statement is raising exception or can 
raise exception then :

try:
    this statement [raises | can raise] exception...
catch Exception,e:
    print "Exception : ",str(e)
    errFlag=1
your script execution will continue from here...

Regards
Vivek Kumar

_________________________________________________________________
Reconnect with old pals. Relive the happy times. 
http://www.batchmates.com/msn.asp With just one click.





From jack at performancedrivers.com  Thu Jun  5 16:35:16 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:35:16 -0400
Subject: Twisted Panglossia
In-Reply-To: <slrnbdv8vl.ktj.ramen@lackingtalent.com>; from ramen@lackingtalent.com on Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 08:09:39PM -0000
References: <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com> <mailman.1054749788.8638.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1054830612.3231.python-list@python.org> <w/43+kKkXUlb092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list@python.org> <slrnbdv8vl.ktj.ramen@lackingtalent.com>
Message-ID: <20030605163516.A1069@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 08:09:39PM -0000, Dave Benjamin wrote:
> In article <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list at python.org>, David Mertz wrote:
> > But I've noticed something both on the Twisted list, and when Twisted
> > has come up here on c.l.py recently.  The Twisted developers have a
> > greater excess of enthusiasm for their package than do the developers of
> > other large frameworks (even more than my Pollyannaishness in my
> > ironically confessed advocacy of my own little tools).
> 
> Really? I had no idea you were Polynesian! ;)
> 
> A search for "Pollyannaishness" on Google returns 3 results. Merriam Webster
> offers no definition. Care to elucidate this obfuscation? =)
> 

Pollyanna n,
 an excessively or blindly optomistic person
 also, Pollyannaish

so if you want to be a grammar nazi it was Pollyannaish, but I didn't notice
the difference until you mentioned it.

-jack




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun  3 13:48:08 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:48:08 -0600
Subject: Yield inside try...finally
In-Reply-To: <bbiisd$76k$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>; from michaels@rd.bbc.co.uk on Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 05:41:05PM +0100
References: <bbiisd$76k$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20030603114808.A1162@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Michael Sparks:
> I've been working with wrapping up network client functionality as a
> generator recently, and hit a "niceness"/"cleanness" speedbump.
  [...]
> Given these 3 versions, the one not allowed (the try..finally) one
> strikes me as the cleanest.
> 
> I'm posting this really for a couple of reasons - a) to note that
> try..yield..finally would occasionally be a really useful thing
> to have (*) [...]

What if the caller of your code calls .next for a while, then
discards the iterator and does something else?  Then the finally
block will not be executed.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"[T]rue greatness is when your name is like ampere, watt, and fourier
 -- when it's spelled with a lower case letter."      -- R.W. Hamming




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Thu Jun 26 19:34:22 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 09:24:22 +0950
Subject: Python executables?
References: <mailman.1056619905.13226.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbfn1te.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:37:23 +0300, Catalin wrote:
> How can I make executables with python?

Python scripts are executable, so long as they can be fed through the
Python interpreter.

> I found some utilities that claim they can do something like that like 
> Installer and py2exe but they actualy pack the code in a huge arhive! 

Yes.  Python scripts are always interpreted (more accurately, compiled
at run-time to a Pytohn-specific bytecode, then interpreted).  You can
bundle the scripts and interpreter into a huge bolus, but that only
eases transmission and installation, it doesn't prevent Python being
interpreted.

> This solves the problem of giving python programs to users who don't 
> have python but doesn't solve the problem of the source "secrecy" 
> (copyright).

Wrong problem.  If you want to hide your source code from your users,
don't expect help from free software programmers.

> And the programs also run much slower and become extremely big compared 
> to a normal C++ program for example.

Yes.  Python emphasises programmer time (both the writer and the reader)
as being more valuable than CPU time.  If you want something as fast as
platform-bound machine-code, use something that generates platform-bound
machine-code, like C.

(That said, much of PYthon's CPU-intensive tasks are actually
implemented as C modules, but only where the performance gain outweighs
the loss of Python code.)

> So can a python program become a "real" executable(I am refering both
> to windows and unix platforms)?

No executable bound to a particular execution model (i.e. compiled to
interface with one OS and CPU architecture) can execute on any other
architecture directly.

> If this is imposible with python is it possible with jpython?

With Jython, you still have an interpreted lagnuage, being compiled at
run-time to a bytecode and then interpreted.  This brings all the
performance bottlenecks you complained of.  (More experienced Jython
people will probably correct me on details, but it doesn't change the
fact that Jython isn't going to be as fast as platform-bound
machine-code.)

-- 
 \          "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one |
  `\       trifling exception, is composed of others."  -- John Andrew |
_o__)                                                           Holmes |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From abli at freemail.hu  Wed Jun 18 14:54:53 2003
From: abli at freemail.hu (Abel Daniel)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:54:53 +0200
Subject: [Tutor] tkSimpleDialog box question.
In-Reply-To: <20030618170121.6539.qmail@webmail36.rediffmail.com>
References: <20030618170121.6539.qmail@webmail36.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <20030618185452.GA914@hooloovoo>

Suresh  Kumar suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com) wrote:
>     Anybody know how to place "tkSimpleDialog" at a given user defined
> location rather than the default one? I am calling "kSimpleDialog" in my
> application and it always display near to top-left ( say 100,100). But i
> want to place at center of the screen or somewhere else. How can i do it?
> My code is given below.
I don't think you will be able to. tkSimpleDialog is implemented in
python, take a look at it's source code:
tkSimpleDialog inherits from Tkinter.Toplevel. The __init__ of the class
ends with this:

        if self.parent is not None:
            self.geometry("+%d+%d" % (parent.winfo_rootx()+50,
                                      parent.winfo_rooty()+50))

        self.initial_focus.focus_set()

        self.wait_window(self)

This means that if self.parent is not None, the geometry is explicitly
set. self.wait_window waits until the dialog is closed (the widget self
is destroyed.)

This means that without hacking tkSimpleDialog, you won't be able to do
this.
OTOH, this 'hacking' is pretty strait-forward. We need to make
tkSimpleDialog accept an optional geometry option, so the following
should work:

class hackedDialog(tkSimpleDialog.Dialog):
    def __init__(self, parent, title = None, geometry=None):
        #                   New stuff:       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
        #
        # Copy-paste the code of tkSimpleDialog.Dialog.__init__ here,
        # except the last couple of lines:
        #
        if self.parent is not None:
            if geometry is None:
                self.geometry("+%d+%d" % (parent.winfo_rootx()+50,
                                      parent.winfo_rooty()+50))
            else:
                self.geometry(geometry)

        self.initial_focus.focus_set()

        self.wait_window(self)

However, you are already using Pmw, so why not use Pmw.Dialog instead?
That way, you don't have to hack the source, just call
dialog.component('hull').geometry('100x100+50+50').
(I guess you will have to call it every time before you show the dialog
otherwise it will stay the same if the user resized it last time.)

(Read the docs on Tkinter.Toplevel.geometry() about the meaning of those
...geometry() calls)


Abel Daniel




From pje at telecommunity.com  Sat Jun  7 18:43:10 2003
From: pje at telecommunity.com (Phillip J. Eby)
Date: 7 Jun 2003 15:43:10 -0700
Subject: solving the metaclass conflict
References: <2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <25b5433d.0306071443.63b27df6@posting.google.com>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7 at posting.google.com>...
> I have just posted a recipe on the online Cookbook that could be of interest
> for metaclasses users.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Description:
> 
> Any serious user of metaclasses has been bitten at least once by the 
> infamous metaclass/metatype conflict. Here I give a general recipe 
> to solve the problem, as well as some theory and some examples.
> 
>  --> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/204197
> 

FYI, note that your implementation doesn't:

* Handle classic classes in the base class list ('trivial()' should
check for 'is ClassType' as well as 'is type')

* Handle non-type metatype roots (e.g. ExtensionClass and MESS)

* Handle multi-level metaclasses (e.g. metametaclasses)

* Remove unneeded metaclasses that are a subclass of another listed
metaclass

* Reuse all generated metaclasses (You're memoizing on a set of base
classes, rather than on the set of unique metaclasses.)

PEAK's 'peak.util.Meta' module contains a more-complete implementation
of this technique.  (See http://peak.telecommunity.com/ for info on
PEAK.)

It's bloody difficult to write a correct, complete, and efficient
metaclass generator, so it's no wonder Guido chose to punt on this in
2.2 (and 2.3 for that matter).



From gumuz at looze.net  Thu Jun 12 08:49:26 2003
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:49:26 +0200
Subject: pythonCOM with Flash
References: <RvPFa.37$zx6.1430@news.optus.net.au>
Message-ID: <3ee87647$0$13808$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

I am afraid that I can not answer this question for you, but I am very
interested in the Flash/Python combination though. I allways like to try out
new gui/code combinations.

Please let me know if you have any url's or something like that


"Bradley Schatz" <bradley at greystate.com> wrote in message
news:RvPFa.37$zx6.1430 at news.optus.net.au...
> Hi,
>
> I am attempting to use Flash as a UI for a python program. I have
> successfully prototyped this using VB/Flash, and am not trying to convert
it
> over to work with python.
>
> My problem is this, when I run the following code (attached below) nothing
> happens.
>
> I assume that the Flash activex component needs to be placed in some
> container to be seen, as I am not seeing any window come up when I run
this.
>
> Could anyone suggest how to embed this into a container?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Bradley
>
>
>
> # Flashevents - test flash/python interop
> from win32com.client import DispatchWithEvents, Dispatch
> import msvcrt, pythoncom
> import time, sys
> import types
>
> import threading
> stopEvent = threading.Event()
>
> def TestFlash():
>     class FlashEvents:
>  def OnFSCommand(self, command, args):
>   print "FSCommend" , command
>  def OnProgress(self, percentDone):
>   print "PercentDone", percentDone
>  def OnReadyStateChange(self, newState):
>   print "State", newState
>
>     e = DispatchWithEvents("ShockwaveFlash.ShockwaveFlash", FlashEvents)
>     e.seen_events = {}
>     e.LoadMovie(0,
> "http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/afassets/flash/hump_starwars.swf")
>     e.Play()
>     if not _WaitForFinish(e, 10000):
>         e.Quit()
>
>
>
> def _WaitForFinish(ob, timeout):
>     end = time.time() + timeout
>     while 1:
>         if msvcrt.kbhit():
>             msvcrt.getch()
>             break
>         pythoncom.PumpWaitingMessages()
>         stopEvent.wait(.2)
>         if stopEvent.isSet():
>             stopEvent.clear()
>             break
>
>     return 1
>
>
> def test():
>     import sys
>     TestFlash()
>
> if __name__=='__main__':
>     test()
>
>
>





From mupeso at arc.sn  Thu Jun 19 05:29:25 2003
From: mupeso at arc.sn (mupeso at arc.sn)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 9:29:25 +0000
Subject: Problem inserting into Postgres (PgSQL) database
Message-ID: <DATAPIPE-AHLQ5KAPV400004a70@datapipe-ahlq5k>

Hello group,

Linux, Python 2.2

I'm having trouble writing in a PostgresSQL database. I can read 
from 
the database just fine, but I can't add anything to the database, 

here part of my code, what am I doing wrong?

Thanks in advance,
Mwepu Mupeso


configDB= 'userdb2'
configHost = 'localhost:5432'
configUser = 'me'~~  ~
configPasswd= '1234'
handle= None
xcursor= None
result= None

try:~~~
~handle=PgSQL.connect(database=configDB, host=configHost, user=configUser, 
password=configPasswd)
~
except PgSQL.OperationalError, e:
~print 'Erreur.'

sql= "insert into radcheck2 (uid,login,passwd,shell,homedir,domain_name,acc_ex
pired) values ("+str(uid) +",'"+login+"','"+passwd+"','"+shell+"','"+homedir+"
','"+dom_name+"','n')"

try:
~xcursor = handle.cursor()~~~
~result= xcursor.execute(sql)~~~~
~handle.commit()
        xcursor.close()
except PgSQL.OperationalError, e:
~print 'ERROR'


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From aryal at ameritech.net  Mon Jun 16 11:54:26 2003
From: aryal at ameritech.net (Anoop Aryal)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:54:26 GMT
Subject: time module: round tripping
Message-ID: <SKlHa.4025$87.2773878@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

Hi,
i'm not sure if this is the right place to post it. if it's not, i would 
appriciate it if you could point me to the right newsgroup.

i had needed to do some time manipulation -- take the unix time value, 
convert it to localtime (human readable format), save it to a text file. 
later, read it from the text file, convert it back to unix time format 
for comparisions. it seems that in this round trip, i'm ahead by an 
hour. i'm guessing it's got something to do with daylight savings. but 
here's the code that illustrates the problem:
---------------------------
#!/usr/bin/python

import time

thetime = time.time()
timeString = time.ctime(thetime)
print timeString
timeTuple = time.strptime(timeString)
print timeTuple
thetime2 = time.mktime(timeTuple)
timeString2 = time.ctime(thetime2)
print timeString2

-----------------------------
and here's the output i get:

Mon Jun 16 10:45:50 2003
(2003, 6, 16, 10, 45, 50, 0, 167, 0)
Mon Jun 16 11:45:50 2003

----------------------------

i'm on python 2.2.2 on an up2dated rh9.

i've used localtime() etc in place of ctime(). but can't figure this one 
out. it's good up to the tuple returned by strptime(). i would assume 
that both mktime() and  ctime() (i think the culprit here is mktime()) 
would 'do the right thing' without extensive parameter passing for this 
type of default conversions... it this a bug?

thanks,
anoop
aryal at ameritech.net




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun 18 17:11:43 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:11:43 -0500
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
In-Reply-To: <11363196.1055944454@dhcp31-78.ics.uci.edu>
References: <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6@posting.google.com>
        <eppstein-0047EB.09403118062003@news.service.uci.edu>
        <3EF0AAFB.DDA5F555@engcorp.com>
        <eppstein-1DFD94.11562718062003@news.service.uci.edu>
        <3v3Ia.109349$pR3.2389728@news1.tin.it>
        <eppstein-B149A1.13274618062003@news.service.uci.edu>
        <16112.53102.408440.129703@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <11363196.1055944454@dhcp31-78.ics.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <16112.54671.696744.513929@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    David> It's tempting to use "not L[0]" instead (since what I want is an
    David> object that's not equal to L[0]) but that fails when L is empty.

    Skip> How about "not L[0:1]"?  Since L is a sequence (right?), "not
    Skip> L[0:1]" will be True if L is empty and False otherwise.

    David> That fails to produce an object that is guaranteed to be unequal
    David> to L[0] when L is nonempty.

Ah, right.  I missed the original spec and was only considering making "not
L[0]" blow up.  What about:

    >>> L = []
    >>> L and not L[0] or True
    True
    >>> L = [False]
    >>> L and not L[0] or True
    True
    >>> (L and not L[0] or True) == L[0]
    False

Of course, at this point "lambda:0" is looking better and better. ;-)

Skip




From icarroll at pobox.com  Thu Jun  5 04:20:58 2003
From: icarroll at pobox.com (W Isaac Carroll)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 01:20:58 -0700
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EDEFD6A.2080909@pobox.com>

Chuck wrote:
> I've hit a stumbling block while trying to pick up Python. I've googled
> around, and I don't think I'm the first to have this question, but I haven't
> been able to find an answer that explains things for me.

[snip]

> ... This gives me the impression that Python passes variables by reference (by
> a "pointer"), and the "arg" in blah is the same as "v".

[snip]

> I get the impression Python passes variables by copy.
> 
> *Huh?*
> 
> It seems that if you pass a mutable variable, you can change it, but only by
> using it's methods, ie arg.append(), and NOT by doing an "arg = (new value)".
> 
> And if you pass an immutable variable, you can't change it at all.

You are correct.

> This doesn't seem very intuitive, which leads me to believe I'm missing "the
> big picture".

Right. It's not intuitive to a C programmer. See below for why.

> In the python tutorial, it says:
> 
>    Actually, call by object reference would be a better description,
>    since if a mutable object is passed, the caller will see any changes
>    the callee makes to it (items inserted into a list).
> 
> But I don't understand what "object reference" means. I'm familiar with "pass
> by copy" and "by reference(pointer)" in the Pascal or C languages...

"Call by object reference" is used because the "call by reference" vs 
"call by value" distinction tends to give people the wrong idea about 
Python. There was a long discussion of the subject recently that you 
should look at if you're interested in the arguments for and against 
that term.

My understanding is that Python is technically "call by value", but that 
description leaves out the vital point that the only values in python 
are references. :)

> What's going on? (*grin*)

In order to understand argument passing in Python, you have to 
understand what variables and objects are in Python.

In C, a variable is a named piece of memory that you can put stuff into. 
In Python, a variable is just a name. It doesn't have a type, and it 
only stores a reference to an object.

An object in Python is a nameless piece of memory that you can put stuff 
into. It has a type and it may have attributes and methods (what would 
be called data and function members in C++).

When you pass a variable to a function, you're actually passing a 
reference to the variable's object. If the function tells that object to 
change its value, the change is visible to the caller. If the function 
creates a new object, the value of the original object (and the caller's 
reference to it) will not be affected.

I think that this could be described as the "big picture" of Python. It 
seems to be the most common stumbling block for new Pythoners coming 
from a C (and relateds) background.

TTFN





From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 16 17:35:59 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:35:59 -0600
Subject: Getting the CPU usage in a generic way across OSes
References: <slrnbesaoj.5ve.krier115@n14.ryd.student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <bcld7v$930$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Kristoffer Erlandsson wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am writing an application that, among other things, should monitor the
> CPU usage. However, this seems impossible to do in a platform
> independant way. I have browsed the source from some C-programs which do
> this and they all seem to depend on very different ways depending on
> what OS the program is running on. Many of the ways use system specific
> system calls (which I can't find Python functions for). The only
> solution I have come up with so far is to extend python with some C-code
> which get the CPU usage for me. But this is of course more tedious than
> I'd like it to be. So I'm wondering if a module implementing this
> allready exists? I've had a date with google for this one, but no luck.
> If it doesn't exist, do anyone have a better idea than to write/rip the
> C-code implementing this for different OS:es? I'm only interested in
> doing it for *nix OS:es.
> 
> I'm very grateful for any help on this.
> 
> Regards,
> Kristoffer Erlandsson

As long as you are using *nix, why not use resource.getrusage?

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/node275.html

Best,

f



From yweng at cs.uoregon.edu  Thu Jun 12 06:48:19 2003
From: yweng at cs.uoregon.edu (Yan Weng)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 03:48:19 -0700
Subject: Why not BOA GUI builder?
References: <KgQFa.769$nX2.90862759@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> <6ee58e07.0306120230.5b0be043@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bc9mbk$fss$1@pith.uoregon.edu>

"Lothar Scholz" <llothar at web.de> wrote in message
news:6ee58e07.0306120230.5b0be043 at posting.google.com...
> John Fabiani <jfabiani at yolo.com> wrote in message
news:<KgQFa.769$nX2.90862759 at newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>...

> Problem Number One with all IDE's is the editor, if you don't like it
> you use an IDE only if really really necessary. But when i must do
> some GUI tasks i will have a look again at BOA.

For small projects, what you said may be true.
Modeling tools included UML support, Cross-reference, project based file
manager and version control tools
are far more important than an good editor for big projects. For most GUI,
you can attach your favoriate editor as an external editor.

--
Yan Weng
yweng at cs.uoregon.edu
http://www.cs.uoregon.edu/~yweng/






From paddy3118 at netscape.net  Fri Jun  6 21:21:13 2003
From: paddy3118 at netscape.net (Paddy McCarthy)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 18:21:13 -0700
Subject: Hardware take on software testing.
References: <2ae25c6b.0306060450.78e988f9@posting.google.com> <3EE0CF2B.57F474E4@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <2ae25c6b.0306061721.148300a@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3EE0CF2B.57F474E4 at engcorp.com>...
> Paddy McCarthy wrote:
> > 
> > If software were tested like hardware...
>  [snip]
> > I ask because I value the view of Pythonistas and if you look at the
> > electronic/Software products you buy today, a lot go out the door with
> > bugs. The software industry has relied on the fact that it doesn't
> > cost them much to make another release but if you look at the
> > proliferation of updates out there it doesn't seem to be working.
> > Customers should expect more.
> 
> Actually, the conditions under which software and hardware are developed
> are quite different in some ways.  Those differences can make it quite
> inappropriate to treat the two the same.  New approaches that are being
> explored for software development, which would likely be fundamentally 
> infeasible for developing hardware, can be collectively labelled "agile
> processes".  At the heart of one of these processes, Extreme Programming,
> is a new approach to design, testing, and coding, called Test-Driven
> Development (TDD).
> 
> With the TDD approach, tests are written first (actually, you start with
> only one test), then executed to prove that they fail ("red light"), then 
> just enough code is written to make the test pass.  Once the test passes 
> ("green light"), the code is refactored to make sure it is clean and 
> proper, the tests are re-run to ensure nothing has broken, and work 
> proceeds on implementing the next test.
> 
<<SNIP>>
> 
> So to answer the question that you didn't actually get around to asking
> explicitly: I don't think testing software like hardware would be a good
> idea, but I also don't think there's a need as we seem to have developed
> other approaches which are sufficiently good that they could well eliminate
> the situation where "a lot go out the door with bugs".  Time will tell,
> but those of us applying these new techniques are so far generally 
> satisfied, or even ecstatic, with the results.
> 
> -Peter

Yeh, that question :-)
It seems that the discussion has started anyway so I'll continue...

On TDD when do you know you are done?
In the Hardware development process we graph the number of bugs found
over time and end up with an S curve, we also set coverage targets
(100 percent statement coverage for executable statements is the
norm), and rather like the TDD approach of software, some teams have
dedicated Verification engineers who derive a verification spec from
the design spec and write tests for the design to satisfy this,
(independantly).
OK, there is great presure to pass off the design on-time, so there is
flexibility in deciding how much testing is enough, but at least there
are charts and figures to guide us.

If TDD uses no random directed generation, then don't you tend to test
strictly the assumed behaviour?

Cheers, Pad.



From gb at cs.unc.edu  Tue Jun 10 16:49:30 2003
From: gb at cs.unc.edu (Gary Bishop)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 16:49:30 -0400
Subject: Surprising difference (bug?) between traceback and inspect
References: <3ee63ced_2@news.unc.edu> <3ee63ee7_2@news.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <3ee6445a_1@news.unc.edu>

Gary Bishop <gb at cs.unc.edu> wrote: Some stuff about a bug in inspect.

On further reflection, I think this is a bug in Python. Module
inspect's getsourcefile wants the file to exist because later
inspect.findsource will try to read from the file.

It seems to me the problem is with the filename that Python keeps for
modules imported from the current directory. They appear to me to be
just the relative pathname but they should be absolute so
introspection has a chance of finding the thing that actually got
imported. It seems to me one could get hopelessly confused by a
program that used os.chdir to change to a directory with identically
named modules...

gb



From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jun 10 23:16:33 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:16:33 +1200
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055217438.10041.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1055217438.10041.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc65ka$fkgd4$2@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Roman Suzi wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Erik Max Francis wrote:
>>Kevin Smith wrote:
>>>        def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:

> the syntax is confusing, because "as" already has a meaning of
> "to be known as":

So maybe it needs to be

   def foo(self) as a synchronized(lock), classmethod:

"as" is already a pseudo-keyword, so one more shouldn't
hurt...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From michaeljwhitmore at netscape.net  Fri Jun 20 13:29:14 2003
From: michaeljwhitmore at netscape.net (Michael J Whitmore)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 10:29:14 -0700
Subject: Newbie on importing
Message-ID: <68a42404.0306200929.6043eef0@posting.google.com>

Just read the Python tutorial looking for the answer to this question

 What is the difference between (from sys import *) and (import sys). 
I am aware that the last imported module's functions overwrite any
identically named functions of previous modules.



Thanks,
Michael



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Fri Jun 13 06:33:33 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:33:33 GMT
Subject: Problems with win32pdh
In-Reply-To: <bcapm2$d5e0$1@acs2.byu.edu>
References: <bcapm2$d5e0$1@acs2.byu.edu>
Message-ID: <1MhGa.3749$GU5.50197@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Eric Jensen wrote:

> I am trying to get the cpu utilization on a XP box.My code looks like this:
> 
> The problem is that this always returns 99 % utilization

That is because your CPU is busy executing this code :)

Try this:

import win32pdh, time
my_query = win32pdh.OpenQuery( None, 0 )
my_counter = win32pdh.AddCounter( my_query, "\\Processor(_Total)\\% 
Processor Time", 0 )
for i in range(20):
     win32pdh.CollectQueryData( my_query )
     junk, percent = win32pdh.GetFormattedCounterValue( my_counter,
     win32pdh.PDH_FMT_LONG )
     print "Junk:", junk
     print "Percent: " + str( percent ) + "%"
     time.sleep(0.1)
win32pdh.CloseQuery( my_query )




From david_martin at carrefour.com  Fri Jun 13 02:40:42 2003
From: david_martin at carrefour.com (dma2)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 23:40:42 -0700
Subject: read_until problem under telnetlib
References: <b94c6ea6.0306110847.571d6690@posting.google.com> <3ee780cd$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>
Message-ID: <b94c6ea6.0306122240.22962c18@posting.google.com>

"Daniel Fackrell" <newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com> wrote in message news:<3ee780cd$1_1 at hpb10302.boi.hp.com>...
> dma2 wrote:
> > hi, i am having a problem that seems not to have been adressed yet on
> > this list
> >
> > i work on thousands of cisco equipements, and as usual the cisco
> > prompt is not consistent across their whole range of equipements and i
> > need this kind of code
> >
> > tn.write ('sh conf\n') #this command print the startup configuration
> > on cisco
> > try:
> >    sh_conf = tn.read_until(["\(enable\)", "#"],5)
> > except EOFError :
> >    print "telnet interrompu, impossible de lire le sh_conf" + ip
> >    unreachable.write("telnet interrompu, impossible de lire le
> > sh_conf" + ip + '\n')
> >    continue
> >
> > i used to match a sting like "foo" i had previously sent to the
> > equipement but i need a cleaner solution that does not make the cisco
> > complain about unknown command
> > i want to match 2 differents strings ( ios or catos )
> >
> > and i get this message
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "C:\Python22\script\telnet-python-2.py", line 265, in ?
> >     sh_ver = tn.read_until([ "\(enable\)", "#" ],2)
> >   File "C:\Python22\lib\telnetlib.py", line 284, in read_until
> >     i = self.cookedq.find(match)
> > TypeError: expected a character buffer object
> >
> > i use this line elsewhere and it works
> >
> > prompt5 = tn.expect (["\(enable\)","#"],2)
> >
> > expect is supposed to accept multiple string or compile regexp
> > but i can't get it to work
> > any help welcome
> > thanks
> 
> You are using tn.read_until() where you're getting the traceback, and
> tn.expect() where you're not.  I suspect you intended tn.expect() in both
> places, as read_until() takes a string-like object (Maybe "character buffer"
> in the error could be replaced with something clearer?) as its first
> argument instead of a list of regular expressions.
> 
> See: http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/telnet-objects.html


thanks



From paul_rudin at scientia.com  Thu Jun 26 05:15:38 2003
From: paul_rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 26 Jun 2003 10:15:38 +0100
Subject: Standard ways to get union, intersection, difference of lists?
References: <mailman.1056615223.9253.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u3chxci85.fsf@scientia.com>

>>>>> "Mickel" == Mickel Gr?nroos <mickel at csc.fi> writes:

    > Hi!  Are there any standard list methods for getting the
    > intersection and difference of two lists? (The union is easy
    > ("list1.extend(list2)"), unless you want it to contain unique
    > values.)

[snip]

    > I realize I could quite easily implement this myself, but I was
    > hoping for a built-in solution.

You might want to take a look at the sets module in Python 2.3. It's
not exactly what you ask for since sets.Sets are not lists - but they
do support these operations and can easily be converted to or from
lists.



From aeze616 at cse.unsw.edu.au  Mon Jun 16 02:21:07 2003
From: aeze616 at cse.unsw.edu.au (anson)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 23:21:07 -0700
Subject: using QCanvas in python
Message-ID: <cb7ba330.0306152221.74dc3fda@posting.google.com>

Dear python techs,


    I am trying to use Qt designer to design a GUI and making use of
QCanvas in python. I don't seem to be able to find it within the
design tool. Does anyone know how I can make use of it? Preferrably
not going through the manual procedures.

Thanks!

Anson



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Wed Jun 18 12:40:31 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:40:31 -0700
Subject: Algorithm help per favore
References: <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-0047EB.09403118062003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <2ec1bc1c.0306180746.159679d6 at posting.google.com>,
 wrbt at email.com (Larry) wrote:

> I need to take a list (probably 20k to 40k elements) of numbers and
> remove consecutive duplicates. Non consecutive duplicates are ok.
> 
> Example: [6,3,3,3,5,7,6,3,4,4,3] => [6,3,5,7,6,3,4,3]

>>> L = [6,3,3,3,5,7,6,3,4,4,3]
>>> [x for x, y in zip(L, [L]+L) if x != y]
[6, 3, 5, 7, 6, 3, 4, 3]

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From ed at membled.com  Fri Jun  6 19:33:07 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 07 Jun 2003 00:33:07 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <s5K4+ks/KrFG089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <l1fzmmkci4.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) writes:

>>    lambda x: print 'value:', x
>
>    j = map (lambda x: print 'value:', x, some_list)
>
>   What is the print statement supposed to print?  And since
>print doesn't return anything (not even None), what happens
>to j?

Well, you can answer this by writing the equivalent code with a named
function.

    def f(x):
      print 'value:', x
    j = map(f, some_list)

Python seems to put in a default return value of None, so j becomes a
list of None elements.  The behaviour of an anonymous function should
be the same as that of a named function.

If you mean that the syntax is problematic, because the commas could
belong to 'print' or to the list, it's a fair point.  And I know that
Python developers are keen to keep the syntax simple (and my complaint
is mostly semantic).  Still, I think that parenthesizing where
necessary would not be unreasonable.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Tue Jun  3 10:00:37 2003
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 07:00:37 -0700
Subject: Any views on YAML?
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0306030600.7b1c82cf@posting.google.com>

Does anyone have any particular views on YAML, esp. wrt XML? 

I've been storing information in CSV format - but lately I've been
thinking that it might be nice to "beef it up a bit". So as well as
storing the data itself, I might want to store the field descriptions,
formatting style, and some other stuff. So  a file would be processed
along the lines of:
repeat until eof:
    read-chunk-header
    read-chunk-data #dependent on the header you find

... a la IFF (Interleaved File Format); for those who can cast their
mind back to Amigas.



From adfgvx at free.fr  Mon Jun 16 15:37:29 2003
From: adfgvx at free.fr (adfgvx)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:37:29 +0200
Subject: Looking for a (very) small http proxy in Python
Message-ID: <3eee1c7b$0$5407$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Hello,

I am looking for a little script in Python that acts as a proxy. I only need
to write in a file all the headers of the http requests and of the answers.
That's all ! I know there are some proxies in Python (I looked at
sourceforge and parnassus), but they are too complicated for me, I have no
time to study and modify them to my needs.

Thank you by advance,

Bruno





From dmetler.nospam at partner.auchan.fr  Tue Jun  3 11:58:54 2003
From: dmetler.nospam at partner.auchan.fr (Damien Metzler)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 17:58:54 +0200
Subject: "for line in fd" twice
In-Reply-To: <bbiej5$9uiab$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
References: <bbiej5$9uiab$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bbifpk$2gt$1@reader1.imaginet.fr>

Thomas G?ttler wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> the following does not work:
> 
> """
> fd=open(file)
> for line in fd:
>     if line.startswith("mymark"):
>         break
> for line in fd:
>     #Read lines after "mymark"
>     ....
> fd.close()
> """
> 
> The second loop misses some lines.
> 
> It works with the old way:
> 
> """
> while 1:
>     line=fd.readline()
>     if not line:
>         break
> """
> 
> instead of "for line in fd"
> 


after u do a :

for line in fd:
    #put ur code here
    ...

u don't know in what state fd is after that. Perhaps the implementation 
says it goes till the end, or till next record....

boTreatLine=false
for line in fd :
    if line.startswith("mymark"):
         boTreatLine=true
    if boTreatLine=true:
         #Read lines after mymark

> If you mustnot call "for line in fd" twice, it would 
> be nice to get an exception which reminds me about it.
> 

This is specific to the generator implementation and this is a "logic" 
feature, not an exception

> Version:
>  Python 2.2.2 (#1, Mar 17 2003, 15:17:58)
>  [GCC 3.3 20030226 (prerelease) (SuSE Linux)] on linux2
> 
>  thomas
> 







From mickel at csc.fi  Tue Jun 17 03:23:46 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:23:46 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Displaying IPA characters in Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <3EEEBF28.9C2AB082@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0306171020140.9090-100000@sampo.csc.fi>

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Erik Max Francis wrote:

> There are IPA glyphs in Unicode, but I don't know whether Tkinter
> supports Unicode or not.
>
> If all else fails, there are ASCII forms of IPA that you could
> potentially use provided you had careful documentation.

Yes, I was planning on using worldbet as input format, but I would like to
display the data in an IPA font.

This is what I have so far:

------------------------------------------
import Tkinter
import tkFont

root = Tkinter.Tk()

## The following is gibberish
u_ipa = u"\u0250 \u0268 \N{LATIN SMALL LETTER TC DIGRAPH WITH CURL}"

## This font on my Redhat 7.0 seems to support IPA glyphs
font = tkFont.Font(root, family="clearlyu", size="24")

label1 = Tkinter.Label(root, text=u_ipa, font=font)
label1.pack()

root.mainloop()
------------------------------------------

So yes, Tkinter can show IPA glyphs on labels at least.

/Mickel

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi





From h_schneider at marketmix.com  Tue Jun 10 10:38:32 2003
From: h_schneider at marketmix.com (Harald Schneider)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:38:32 +0200
Subject: Python Coredump on FreeBSD
References: <mailman.1052940442.4968.python-list@python.org> <ba0bk8$s1i$04$1@news.t-online.com> <0pCdnbUTkYU6W16jXTWcow@speakeasy.net> <ba0pcs$9vi$0@216.39.172.122> <ba0v60$71a$03$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1053034886.23483.python-list@python.org> <ba1vj6$j16$02$1@news.t-online.com> <ba34j1$18o$0@216.39.172.122> <badnoh$t0e$04$1@news.t-online.com> <mailman.1053878763.24409.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bc4qh8$mp7$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Sorry for the huge delay ... if I compile with this option, my app fails
with a missing 'import thread' in line 5 of threading.py ....

--Harald


"Andrew MacIntyre" <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1053878763.24409.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, 20 May 2003, Harald Schneider wrote:
>
> > I tried several things to isolate the code that causes the bug -- 
without
> > success :-/
> >
> > It's not
> > - a certain pattern and
> > - its not the amount of pattern test and
> > - not the size or sort of strings being tested.
> >
> > It must be the interaction between limited thread resources (64K stack)
> > under FreeBSD and some issue in the re module ...
> > The only thing I know for sure is that pcre runs as stable as a rock ...
> > sorry that I can't squeece out more informations from that issue ...
>
> I've also done a little experimentation on the issue I'm seeing (bus error
> in test_re), and have concluded its related to FreeBSD's pthreads :-(
>
> ./configure --without-threads
>
> produces an interpreter that survives the test easily.  What I'm seeing in
> the pthreads case indicates the thread stack size is not coming into play
> as test_re doesn't use threads, so the problem is in the "primary" thread.
> AFACT, the "primary" thread is still using the normal stack (which in my
> case is effectively limited only by memory availability).
>
> Unless your app is using threads, and the regex match is called from other
> than the "primary" thread, the thread stack size issue won't be affecting
> you either.
>
> The problem you see is most probably related to a particular recursive
> pattern on a particular dataset...
>
> If you had the chance to build an interpreter without threads, it would be
> useful to confirm whether your problem also relates to linking against
> libc_r rather than libc.
>
> --
> Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
> E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
>         andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT
2616
> Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia
>





From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jun 13 18:19:22 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 15:19:22 -0700
Subject: Octets calculation?
References: <65eFa.634621$Si4.577158@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <bc673d$f0tpn$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EE79F73.E08C2554@alcyone.com> <mailman.1055369063.13758.python-list@python.org> <3ee88ede$0$645$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <bcbb0q$hf4ub$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3eea2377$0$1394$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <bcdf3e$2js$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3EEA4DEA.42D73482@alcyone.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> 1.6  The C++ memory model                               [intro.memory]
>
>1 The fundamental storage unit in the C++ memory model is the  byte.  
> A
>  byte  is at least large enough to contain any member of the basic
> exe-
>  cution character set and is composed of a contiguous sequence of
> bits,
>  the  number of which is implementation-defined.  The least
> significant
>  bit is called the low-order bit; the most significant  bit  is 
> called
>  the high-order bit.  The memory available to a C++ program consists
> of
>  one or more sequences of contiguous bytes.  Every byte  has  a 
> unique
>  address.
>
> which seems to imply that char and byte COULD have different numbers
> of bits.

This means it clear that a char can fit in a byte; it doesn't establish
that they're different entities.  Later comments in the Standards
indicate that char and byte are synonymous, although the Standards never
come right out and say it (which is a weird little quirk).

C99 has 3.6/1 (which is very similar to what you quote above; C++97's
version is a paraphrase of C99's 3.6/1-3), and has 3.7.1/1 which defines
a character as a "single-byte character; <C> bit representation that
fits in a byte."

5.2.1/3 reads, "The representation of each number of the source and
execution basic character sets shall fit in a byte,"  5.2.4.2.1/1
establishes that a byte must be at least 8 bits (but it could be more).

There are also other semantic hints, such as CHAR_BITS being the macro
definition of the number of bits in a byte (which is the same as a char,
hence the name).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Procrastination is the thief of time.
\__/  Edward Young



From wrbt at email.com  Mon Jun 16 18:17:59 2003
From: wrbt at email.com (Larry)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 15:17:59 -0700
Subject: Python as a Language Choice
References: <bckvg4$kdoar$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <2ec1bc1c.0306161417.7f890a66@posting.google.com>

"Cousin Stanley" <CousinStanley at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bckvg4$kdoar$1 at ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>...
> Someone in another NewsGroup asked
> why I had picked Python as a language of choice ...
> 
>      and embeddable in other languages ...

Hey another Python lover in Phoenix! I didn't realize we were such a hotbed!



From jafo at tummy.com  Thu Jun 19 05:33:49 2003
From: jafo at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 03:33:49 -0600
Subject: Problem inserting into Postgres (PgSQL) database
In-Reply-To: <DATAPIPE-AHLQ5KAPV400004a70@datapipe-ahlq5k>
References: <DATAPIPE-AHLQ5KAPV400004a70@datapipe-ahlq5k>
Message-ID: <20030619093349.GA23876@tummy.com>

On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 09:29:25AM +0000, mupeso at arc.sn wrote:
>here part of my code, what am I doing wrong?

It doesn't look like you're doing a commit.  "handle.commit()", after
you change the data.

Sean
-- 
 Put out fires during the daytime.  Do your real work at night.
 Sleep is just an addiction.  -- Dieter Muller
Sean Reifschneider, Inimitably Superfluous <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com, ltd. - Linux Consulting since 1995.  Qmail, Python, SysAdmin




From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Tue Jun 17 04:31:07 2003
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:31:07 +0100
Subject: retrieving data from QListViewItem
In-Reply-To: <cb7ba330.0306162216.4410b345@posting.google.com>
References: <cb7ba330.0306162216.4410b345@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200306170931.07771.phil@riverbankcomputing.co.uk>

On Tuesday 17 June 2003 7:16 am, anson wrote:
> Dear people.
>
>     Is there a way to retrieve the data from a cell (QListViewItem) in
> a table (QListView)?

QListViewItem.text()
QListViewItem.pixmap()

Phil




From http  Sun Jun  1 06:56:11 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 01 Jun 2003 03:56:11 -0700
Subject: CGI question: safe passwords possible?
References: <cb035744.0305301401.3fdc8a96@posting.google.com> <mailman.1054338287.30346.python-list@python.org> <bb8uhp$7594h$2@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de> <cb035744.0305302335.58d4f17a@posting.google.com> <3ED86146.F2029ADB@alcyone.com> <1054368881.10515.265.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1054376930.25954.python-list@python.org> <7x1xyfgxq6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <cb035744.0305310955.16d699a0@posting.google.com> <cb035744.0306010235.5849604f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xu1baqd6c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant) writes:
> I can do HTTP Digest authentication but this is all very cumbersome
> and not compatible among hosts (as far as I understand).  But my
> conclusion is so much simpler that all this!  If you really want
> security, use HTTPS.  That is HTTP over a SSL connection (one of the
> many things I did not know).  Just let your host turn your whole site
> into HTTPS and then you are secure.

Using HTTPS for your whole site works, but it's not such a great idea
because HTTPS pages will bypass your browser and proxy caches.  That
(among other things) makes HTTPS pages load slower than HTTP pages.
Just use HTTPS for the pages where you need security (pages that take
passwords, pages where users enter financial data, etc.) and don't put
too many graphics on those pages and they won't slow down too much.
Use regular HTTP for the other pages.  See any retail site for
example.  They show you the products on regular HTTP, and their
shopping cart checkout page where you enter your credit card number is
HTTPS.

> Am I right?  Is it true, the part about not having to change your HTML
> and CGI code?  Well, except for some URLs in them maybe, but they
> could be stored in a separate configuration file.  I mean, you maybe
> have to change things like http://yourhost/yourloginpage.html to
> http://yourhost/yourloginpage.shtml or something?

You'd change http://yourhost/yourloginpage.html to
https://yourhost/yourloginpage.html (change http: to https:).  .shtml is
something else entirely (an old HTML template system that's not used
much any more).  



From pieterb at gewis.nl  Sat Jun 21 15:19:45 2003
From: pieterb at gewis.nl (PieterB)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 12:19:45 -0700
Subject: Does current Python2.3CVS work on FreeBSD5.1 or FreeBSD5-current?
Message-ID: <2251d03c.0306211119.64824456@posting.google.com>

Hi, 

I was wondering if someone could acknowledge that Python2.3CVS runs on
FreeBSD5.1 or FreeBSD5-current.

I had some problems compiling Python2.3CVS on FreeBSD5.0, and I would
like to know if it FreeBSD5.0 or Python related. I didn't get it to
compile with threads. I got the following error:

> make
> [...]
> c++  -Wl,--export-dynamic -o python  Modules/python.o  libpython2.3.a
> -lutil   -lm
> libpython2.3.a(posixmodule.o): In function `posix_tmpnam':
> Modules/posixmodule.c:5785: warning: tmpnam() possibly used unsafely;
> consider using mkstemp()
> libpython2.3.a(posixmodule.o): In function `posix_tempnam':
> Modules/posixmodule.c:5738: warning: tempnam() possibly used unsafely;
> consider using mkstemp()
> libpython2.3.a(thread.o): In function `PyThread_start_new_thread':
> Python/thread_pthread.h:217: undefined reference to `pthread_create'
> Python/thread_pthread.h:253: undefined reference to `pthread_detach'
> *** Error code 1
>
> Stop in /home/pieterb/sandbox/python/dist/src.

I asked Guido about it and he told me:

> I can't fix it, because I don't know what causes it; it seems your
> system has lied to the configure script (or the configure script has
> drawn the wrong conclusion from available evidence) about where the
> pthread library is.  Ask on comp.lang.python or the #python IRC
> channel (on freenode).



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  9 05:19:57 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 10:19:57 +0100
Subject: Newbie question on C extensions!
References: <bc10bc$dml$1@home.itg.ti.com>
Message-ID: <3EE4513D.3F96A840@hotmail.com>

Prabu wrote:

> I get the error
> message like "cl.exe - invalid command or file name" during compilation of
> this C file from setup.

"cl.exe" is the microsoft command line C compiler. You won't get very far
without it if you're trying to create C extensions.

Do you have a C/C++ compiler installed on your machine?

Have you set your path environment variable so that the directory containing the
"cl.exe" executable is on it?

Until you can type "cl" on a command line and have that call the C compiler, you
won't be able to do anything with C.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From maj64 at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  9 07:33:35 2003
From: maj64 at hotmail.com (Mark J)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 04:33:35 -0700
Subject: Python v2.3 and dict.fromkeys() suggestion
Message-ID: <a0567c6b.0306090333.4ee2d89e@posting.google.com>

I think it's really great that dictionary types now provide a (fast)
way to add elements from a sequence.

It seems, however, that this mechanism could be made more general by
letting fromkeys() be a regular method instead of restricting it to a
class method/constructor.  This would allow (quickly) adding elements
from a sequence (perhaps multiple times) *after* the dictionary has
been created.

Besides being more useful, I think this would also be less confusing. 
(What other built-in has such an alternate constructor?)

Also, once people get used to the idea of being able to add sequence
elements to dictionaries, they'll want a regular method to do the same
anyway (better to make the change before release than deal with a
dict.update_fromkeys() or other naming issue to complement a fromkeys
constructor).

One issue, I suppose, would be what to do if an illegal (non-hashable)
element was encountered half-way through the update.  But Python could
check that all elements are hashible prior to updating the dictionary
much faster and less esotericly than a user could.

If the change were to be made and the method was no longer going to be
a constructor, then it may be appropriate to rename the function
"addkeys".

Thanks for the consideration!

Mike



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jun 14 11:39:43 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 16:39:43 +0100
Subject: pythonCOM with Flash
References: <RvPFa.37$zx6.1430@news.optus.net.au> <GV%Fa.2949$GU5.41737@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <TVfGa.76$zx6.3873@news.optus.net.au> <xEhGa.3736$GU5.50995@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <3ee9bfff$0$8301$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <mailman.1055513666.7326.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87adckfz28.fsf@pobox.com>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> writes:

> On Fri, 13 Jun 2003,  wrote:
> 
> > So, if I understand correctly I cannot use Flash as a GUI without another
> > GUI to contain the flash object.
> >
> > am I right?
> 
> That is probably the case, but that doesn't mean that the other GUI needs
> to be a full GUI framework (like wxPython, Tkinter, Qt) - you could use
[...]

Would that even work?  I know Qt has suport for ActiveX controls (or
whatever you want to call them), but do wx & Tk?


> native Win32 calls to create the toplevel window that contains the Flash
> object and that's most of what you need.
[...]

Or use IE as the control container.  I think Alex Martelli has posted
here about this (probably at length ;-) in the past.


John



From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Jun 17 12:12:30 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:12:30 -0400
Subject: analyzing lock contention in multi-threaded app?
In-Reply-To: <16111.3154.71808.325818@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHIEGOFPAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Skip]
> I was reading the PEP 319 thread on python-dev yesterday and a
> question popped into my brain with recurs (to me) from time-to-time.
> Is there a decent way to analyze a multi-threaded app for lock
> contention?

No, locks are too low-level.  If you have to use locks, ensure that no
thread ever requires holding more than one lock at a time.  Then deadlock is
impossible.  If a thread has to hold more than one lock at a time, then
ensure that all threads acquire locks in a fixed global order; then deadlock
is also impossible.  Regardless of approach, strive to hold locks over as
small a stretch of code as possible.

Many uses of locks would be better served by using condition variables
instead, which are much better behaved than locks.  For example, here's the
canonical deadlock scenario:

def deadlock(obj1, obj2):
    obj1.acquire()
    obj2.acquire()

If A and B are locks, and thread1 calls deadlock(A, B) while thread2 calls
deadlock(B, A), deadlock is likely.  "Fixed global order" can be tricky to
ensure when locks are passed as arguments.

The condvar protocol is:

    # Somebody waiting for something to be true.
    cond.acquire()
    while what we're waiting for isn't true:
        cond.wait()   # this releases cond too
    # What we're waiting for is true now, and cond is acquired.
    ... do something ...
    cond.notify()
    cond.release()


    # Somebody else mutating the values that go into deciding whether
    # what we're waiting for is true.
    cond.acquire()
    ... mutate the values ...
    cond.notify()
    cond.release()

This shifts the focus from trying to outguess concurrent control flow, to
concentrating on the *logic* of "what we're waiting for".  This can be
valuable even in the "deadlock" example:

def nodeadlock(obj1, obj2):
    obj1.acquire()
    while not obj2.acquire(0):
        obj1.wait()
    # Now we hold obj1 and obj2.
    ... do something ...
    obj1.notify()
    obj1.release()
    obj2.notify()
    obj2.release()

If A and B are condvars, and thread1 calls nodeadlock(A, B) while thread2
calls nodeadlock(B, A), no problem.  The condvar protocol ensures that
nobody holds the condvar lock for a long time.  Sooner or later (and usually
sooner), one of the threads will acquire both the condvars.  Note that the
while-loop is a natural place to put logging info, if you're interesting in
finding out how often contention occurs.





From artyprog at wanadoo.fr  Wed Jun 11 15:16:53 2003
From: artyprog at wanadoo.fr (Salvatore)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:16:53 +0200
Subject: snakedb -MySQL
In-Reply-To: <a56963e7.0306110746.74bac60f@posting.google.com>
References: <bc51mj$o81$1@news-reader13.wanadoo.fr> <a56963e7.0306110746.74bac60f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bc7v86$gri$1@news-reader13.wanadoo.fr>

Ming Hui Huang wrote:
> Hi Salvatore,
> 
> First of all thanks for using the snakedb module which I wrote to make
> database access easier.

With such a great product how can I avoid using it ?, :-)
and I encourage others to use it.

Thank you again for your response.

Regards

Salvatore









From news at exultants.org  Sun Jun 29 07:05:44 2003
From: news at exultants.org (Van Gale)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:05:44 GMT
Subject: shebang strange thing...
In-Reply-To: <slrnbfo50g.17e.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
References: <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com> <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com> <bdb22c$psllg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EF933AA.C16ADFE5@alcyone.com> <bdcl1d$v43$0@216.39.172.122> <fef0a228.0306261125.62b83713@posting.google.com> <slrnbfn2eb.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <jg4ofv4n3aq4kc7toh1v22ontijkdu07hp@4ax.com> <slrnbfo50g.17e.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <cKzLa.167$uA7.35005501@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>

Ben Finney wrote:
> I maintain that the CR and LF were needlessly preserved as separate
> operations, with no benefit.

I disagree.  IIRC there were plenty of printers where the carriage 
return operation took a disproportionately long time, so therefore 
backspacing was the prefered method for overstriking, but at the same 
time that meant line feeds were a big performance win for smart 
applications.

I still have some saved "graphics" output from my NEC Spinwriter 
generated by printing a dot "." combined with micro-linefeeds.  Ah, the 
joys of doing "screenshots" of UCSD Pascal turtlegraphics on an Apple 
II... hmmm, think I'm dating myself?

Van




From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Sun Jun  8 16:37:49 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 21:37:49 +0100
Subject: Compiling on XP home
Message-ID: <6e77evc8iq5sb6i686qf8e7ccrsk2eledn@4ax.com>

I'm running Python 2.2.3 on XP Home.  I've just noticed that .pyc
files are not being created when I execute Python scripts.  I'm
running as administrator in my own directory, so I have write
permission.  Does anybody know what's happening?



From stevesusenet at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 19 11:31:38 2003
From: stevesusenet at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 08:31:38 -0700
Subject: Is python good for making database work short?
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055986954.17173.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f8cb8c9.0306190731.128ecb71@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055986954.17173.python-list at python.org>...
> Steve wrote:
> > Hi;
> > 
> > Today at work I got an impressive demonstration.
> > 
> > There was a database mess that had to be cleaned up fast.
> > [...]
> > A coworker who is a foxpro nut did all of this in about 3 lines of
> > code.
> 
> This is either an exaggeration or the problem wasn't really that complex.

No exaggeration. The foxpro code to fetch a copy from another
database/server was only 3 lines of code.  It would have been easily
between 1 and  2 dozen lines of code in java/jdbc.  I never wrote that
the entire fix was only 3 lines in foxpro, just the part about copying
the table into the database.


> Yes. You can write fairly short database code with the Python DB-API, 
> compared to all other languages I know (for database stuff, I've used 
> VB6, C# and Java, and Python of course).

Cool.  This in my ideal opinion, someone who has used other languages
for similar tasks.

Steve



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Jun 12 12:10:05 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:10:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: inheritance
References: <bca77e$aq2$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns9398AE613BF33duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Duncan Smith" <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
news:bca77e$aq2$1 at newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk: 

> Is there any alternative to explicitly overloading each of the parent
> class functions that return a new instance?

You could try creating an object of the appropriate type directly from 
inside table.NumTable.__mul__

Something like:

def __mul__(self, other):
   values, variables = ... calculate them ...

   if issubclass(self, other):
      resType = self.__class__
   else:
      resType = other.__class__

   return resType(values, variables)

I don't know what you would do though if self and other are both subclasses 
on NumTable but neither is a subclass of the other. To be correct you'ld 
probably need to find the common base class.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Jun 12 10:15:45 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:15:45 +0200
Subject: index(x)
References: <3EE884B6.3070105@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <bca1up$gjk38$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Tom wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I compare all items in a list with another value. There are always
> multiple matches. I need the list index of every match. But if I use
> index(x) it only returns the first match in that list. There is probably
> a similar command that does exactly what I want, but I can't find it.

I would do it like this:
s="..a....a...a.a"
indexes=[]
for i in range(len(s)):
    char=s[i]
    if char=="a":
        indexes.append(i)
print indexes

> 
> Talking about that: is there any good online help or something like
> that? I have the Python Library Reference, but I find that rather
> confusing and with very short explanations. I think they set it up the
> wrong way, because you already have to know the command you are actually
> looking for?! If  I want to do something, I want to know which command I
> can use! So, is there any online help or something you can recommend?

Did you read the tutorial? If you did and you need some more example code
have a look at the python cookbook.

 thomas






From bh at intevation.de  Wed Jun 18 14:05:22 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 20:05:22 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.1.2
References: <slrnbf126d.67u.alf@largo.fayauffre.org> <6q1xxrpcu0.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <slrnbf1996.6la.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
Message-ID: <6qsmq7ntwd.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Alexandre Fayolle <alf at fayauffre.org> writes:

> >  - It incorrectly says that "C" is not a valid class name in the
> >    following class statement:
> > 
> >    class C:
> >        pass
> 
> This is part of the coding standard checking part in pylint.

Ah, I see. Maybe the message should be changed, then. "invalid" seems a
bit strong for not conforming to a naming convention.

I just noticed another minor thing: "class" is spelled "classe" in the
output.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From x at y.com  Mon Jun  2 09:04:51 2003
From: x at y.com (p)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 13:04:51 GMT
Subject: Interactive mode
Message-ID: <TXHCa.43127$jp.673066@twister.southeast.rr.com>

Pythoneers,
	At least for the next little while, I'm going to be doing my Python 
development work on a Mac with OS X 10.2. Since I usually use the 
commandline (bash) and vim, it really isn't much different from when I 
use Linux. However, when I'm using interactive mode on this thing, my 
terminal settings don't allow me to up-arrow for the previous command, 
and backspace/delete don't backspace or delete.
	My terminal seems to be set up correctly... but if there's anyone who's 
run into this before, or if you know of a way for me to map the usual 
keys to their usual functions, please let me know. I'll just be here 
R'ing TFM.

--P




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sat Jun  7 18:22:08 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 00:22:08 +0200
Subject: Factorials
References: <3ee1e6f1@shknews01> <mailman.1054993514.20129.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbtopg$5hp$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:

>If you're doing a lot with factorials, I think you should upgrade to 
>Python 2.3 already, because it has an optimized multiplication for longs.

Yes, but for small ints there is negative speed improvement, so turbo
mode is only enabled for big ints? If that's correct then one has to
aggregate into bigger ints first to get real benefit. Using 2**2000 as
a treshold value is based on my personal experimental truth only and
probably I'm overdoing it a bit. However, the code below seems to be a
way to use optimized multiplication for longs for large factorials and
still keep good performance for small values.

Anton

import profile
from operator import mul

def fac(n): return reduce(mul,range(2,n+1),1)

def karagen(n):
    K = 2**2000
    y = 1
    for x in xrange(2,n+1):
        y *= x
        if y > K:
            yield y
            y = 1
    yield y
        
def fac1(n):
    R = [x for x in karagen(n)]
    while len(R) > 1:
        if len(R) % 2 <> 0 : R[0] *= R.pop()
        R = [x*y for x,y in zip(R[::2],R[1::2])]
    return  R[0]

def main():
    n = 10000
    assert fac(n) == fac1(n)
    
def test():
    profile.run("main()")

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()
 



From val at vtek.com  Tue Jun 17 17:09:22 2003
From: val at vtek.com (val)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:09:22 -0400
Subject: site appraisal: this Fri: 9am at the site/trailer
Message-ID: <bco02m$lacsq$1@ID-62387.news.dfncis.de>

Vic,
    Joe Freemeau, appraiser hired by the Bank,
will be there at 9.00am, at the corner/trailer.
Don't forget:
    (1) plan (copy for him as well) and
    (2) estimate for money invested in the Project and future estimates
val





From elmar.hoefner at uibk.ac.at  Sat Jun 14 17:05:11 2003
From: elmar.hoefner at uibk.ac.at (Elmar W. Hoefner)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 23:05:11 +0200
Subject: Reading from a FIFO, burning CPU
Message-ID: <bcg2m8$iqmme$1@ID-113469.news.dfncis.de>

Hi there!

I tried to continuously stream a FIFO into my python script.
I was successful so far, but the performance is not acceptable: If I start
the script, it eats 99% of my CPU cycles. Can anyone give me a hint how to
change this?
I did it this way:

fifo=open("/test_fifo", "r")
while 1:
        line=fifo.readline()
        # to stop the repeated printing of " '' " while nothing is in the fifo:
        if line != '': print line 

Anything better? I'm sure there is, any help is most appreciated! (Google
didn't help me, nor did the archives of this group...)

Thanks in advance,
Elmar

-- 
| Elmar W. Hoefner
| You can send me encrypted mail. Get my public GPG key from
| http://home.pages.at/oeller/files/pubkey.txt
| Fingerprint: B5D9 2544 A06A 6760 E16A  46BF 5A6B B7EF B530 08E2



From mas at semafor.ch  Thu Jun 26 04:01:06 2003
From: mas at semafor.ch (Sorin Marti)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:01:06 +0200
Subject: Reading a binary file
Message-ID: <3EFAA842.1070505@semafor.ch>

Hi all,

I am quite new to python and very new to this list.

I've got following problem. I have a binary file which contains 
information I should read. I can open the file with

f = open ('cpu1db2.dat', 'rb')

That's no problem. But now I need the hex values of the binary file.

Is there a possibility to show hex-values of the bytes of a file?


Thanks in advance
    Sorin





From mcherm at mcherm.com  Fri Jun 20 13:37:19 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:37:19 -0700
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
Message-ID: <1056130639.3ef3464feddd4@mcherm.com>

Alexander Schmolck writes:
> I'm not saying it isn't (marginally) more convinient for a (common) special
> case, but the bit you snipped asked whether it's worth the disadvantages.
> Worse than a new, redundant, way to do things IMHO is that it also precludes
> specifying options for dict instance creation (it's not that one couldn't come
> up with some candidates) in the future and even makes subclasses of dict like
> DefaultDicts that need such constructor options needlessly constructor
> incompatible. I have yet to see a vaguely convincing example where the new
> additional syntax conveys a non-marginal advantage and even if it did, why not
> make it a classmethod or let the user write the necessary one-liner himself?
> So why make python more perlish, for little apparent gain?

Well, I snipped it because I didn't have anything to say on it. And that's
because I basically agree with you. I'd say I'm -0 on this, or perhaps
-0.4 to be more precise. I don't see that it's necessary, and it does
have some mild disadvantages. But I also think the disadvantages *are*
pretty mild, so I'm certainly not going to be the one to oppose it.

As Alex M. pointed out... once 2.3 goes out the door with this in it, 
the feature can never be removed. So if you *really* care about this, 
you should bring it up *NOW* on python-dev, providing cogent arguments
explaining why it's a bad idea. Me, I think it's not such a big deal.

-- Michael Chermside





From timr at probo.com  Mon Jun 16 23:26:06 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:26:06 -0700
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <16102.10640.855883.967908@montanaro.dyndns.org> <20030610190206.54459.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com> <mailman.1055526867.16928.python-list@python.org> <roy-7FFDA8.17573013062003@reader1.panix.com> <mailman.1055542227.19654.python-list@python.org> <aeqnev0ha6ludr9o0fqpouh7ghsmn2ngnv@4ax.com> <bck65k$112m$1@news.peterlink.ru>
Message-ID: <4h2tevsoatvr7ahac0qtdmk6v826uf47e9@4ax.com>

anton muhin <antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru> wrote:

>Tim Roberts wrote:
>
>> In Unix, this option little more than an exercise, because most of the
>> shells are so functional.  However, there is a very functional and quite
>> useful Python shell for Windows called PyDOS that adds some very useful
>> things, as well as allowing direct Python statements.  It's especially
>> useful on Windows 98, since it adds path completion and other niceties that
>> are built-in to Win2K.
>
>Could you provide an URL? I googled for it, but I was able to find DOS 
>version of Python only :(

Memory fault.  It is called "pdos.py".  Find it here:

  http://hammer.prohosting.com/~pyguy/

I do not think it is being actively developed, but it's useful as-is, and
is easily extended.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From yweng at cs.uoregon.edu  Thu Jun 12 21:01:48 2003
From: yweng at cs.uoregon.edu (Yan Weng)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:01:48 -0700
Subject: long-term release schedule?
References: <mailman.1054692908.26987.python-list@python.org> <5654fff9.0306112203.6aa1ef99@posting.google.com> <bc9is2$fr0$1@pith.uoregon.edu> <5654fff9.0306121555.4c214e92@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bcb8bi$hmm$1@pith.uoregon.edu>

"Ray Smith" <ray at rays-web.com> wrote in message
news:5654fff9.0306121555.4c214e92 at posting.google.com...
> "Yan Weng" <yweng at cs.uoregon.edu> wrote in message news:<bc9is2$fr0
> Your first 2 points indicate speed as an issue.  For a large percentage of
> tasks Python seems fast enough as it is. Like everything it would be nice
if
> it was quicker :) but will this constrain the growth of Python????

Well. The first one is talking about about the "byte code optimize". Speed
is just one issue. "Obfuscator" is another kind of "optimizer". :) Some one
do concern about this. Look at the research work for Java and .Net.

Yes, Python is fast enough for most of the tasks. For interface face, 0.01
ms has no advantagement than 0.7 ms. But for scientific computing, it
sometimes means a big difference. 70 hours vs 1 hour? :) The key is not
"absolutly fast". It is "fast enough for specific tasks". Because scientific
computing seems a strong area of python, I have this speed improvement
suggestion just to make python even stronger in this area. Just think about
reseach and applications for "online" image processing and pattern
recognition. Speed is always an important issue.

> An IDE (like for example BOA, PythonCard etc) can be developed externally
to
> the Python Core Language.
Totally agree. I made bad format for my post. Utility is not part of the
core.

> My guess is enough people would be around to keep bug fixes going and the
> real value of Python is now becoming all the external libraries???
Yes or no. Language has to provide "good ways" to help user extend the
lanuage and build external components.
i.e., if python doesn't provide "module" concept, we may have a hard time to
build all those libraries.
So keeping experienced designers and programmers for the core and some
important libraries is necessary. But this is just my thought.

Thanks.
--
Yan Weng
yweng at cs.uoregon.edu
http://www.cs.uoregon.edu/~yweng/

>
> I wouldn't put "static analysis tools" into thre "Core Python language"
basket.
> (but would be useful in large projects)
>
>
> > Utilities needed to improve.
> > + IDE: VB before VB.Net is a pretty bad language but it still gets a lot
of
> > users. Why? It has
> >             a convient IDE making implementing some typical tasks
easily.
>
> An IDE (like for example BOA, PythonCard etc) can be developed externally
to
> the Python Core Language.
>
> > Python need to be *very* successful in "some areas" to gain the
attention of
> > the IT industry.
> >     |- Testing, Scientific computing and Web applications seem the
potential
> >  areas.
> >     |- The enough support from big companies will garantee the time of
the
> > best python programmers.
> >         Recently, I checked out the websites of some good python
> > programmers. I found their economic status are not good. If a person
can't
> > feed up their family. How can you ask them to contribute more time on
the
> > free things?
> >
> > Just some thoughts.
>
> I guess the "angle" of my question was it Guido and his team didn't get
> commercial backing to continue development of Python how would it effect
the
> growth and commercial support of Python??
> My guess is enough people would be around to keep bug fixes going and the
> real value of Python is now becoming all the external libraries???
>
> Regards,
>
> Ray Smith





From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jun 15 04:48:19 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 01:48:19 -0700
Subject: getting info out of a list.
References: <7tntr-qa9.ln1@grendel.myth>
Message-ID: <3EEC32D3.F7C5A3AC@alcyone.com>

Jim Richardson wrote:

> I know I am missing something fundamental, but I can't figure out
> what.
> Any suggestions on where to look? or what I am missing? Thanks.

You want to flatten the sequence.  A quick search on Google Groups will
come up with quite a few ways of doing this.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ No one knows what he can do until he tries.
\__/  Publilius Syrus



From glauco at allevatori.com  Fri Jun  6 05:04:38 2003
From: glauco at allevatori.com (Glauco)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 09:04:38 GMT
Subject: m2crypto w or w/out proxy
References: <457a5e09.0303260257.4c37287a@posting.google.com> <b60b9i$ilm$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <457a5e09.0303310228.71205e68@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <GOYDa.65001$Ny5.1955504@twister2.libero.it>

I wrote a package  for connection throw HTTP with or without proxy .
I used urllib2 and if proxy is configured i do something like this:

......
proxy_support = urllib2.ProxyHandler( {"http" : self.proxy } )
opener = urllib2.build_opener( proxy_support , urllib2.HTTPHandler  )
urllib2.install_opener(  opener  )
......

In this day i implemented HTTPS connection using M2Crypto ( because i 
must use fixed certificate ) but i cannot find nothing about 
ProxyHandler in M2Crypto.m2urllib.

How can i configure proxy use in M2Crypto (or reuse Opener from urllib) ?


Any ideas ?

Thank's
Glauco




From gumuz at looze.net  Fri Jun 13 08:16:17 2003
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:16:17 +0200
Subject: pythonCOM with Flash
References: <RvPFa.37$zx6.1430@news.optus.net.au> <GV%Fa.2949$GU5.41737@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <TVfGa.76$zx6.3873@news.optus.net.au> <xEhGa.3736$GU5.50995@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3ee9bfff$0$8301$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

So, if I understand correctly I cannot use Flash as a GUI without another
GUI to contain the flash object.

am I right?

"Mark Hammond" <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message
news:xEhGa.3736$GU5.50995 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Bradley Schatz wrote:
>
> > Makpy finds two typelibraries for Shockwave Flash 1.0 If I look at them
> > using the MS COM Object viewer, I see that one of them points to an .ocx
and
> > the other points to a .oca
>
> I'm not familiar with .oca files.
>
> I'm uninterested in flash :)  I use Mozilla as my day-to-day browser for
> a number of reasons, and am happy that I actually need to go out of my
> way to enable flash support there.
>
> But I did have a fiddle, and it all seems to work OK
>
> > I have modified the webbrowser.py example to use flash - the source is
> > below.
> >
> > When I use the IID that points to the ocx (begins with D27) I get the
> > following trace from within pythonwin:
> ...
>
> > com_error: (-2147319779, 'Library not registered.', None, None)
>
> I just removed that line :)
>
> > #FlashModule =
> > gencache.EnsureModule("{D27CDB6B-AE6D-11CF-96B8-444553540000}", 0, 1, 0)
> > FlashModule =
> > gencache.EnsureModule("{E69E19FB-B24A-4AA2-9E1A-3C6E59F587FC}", 0, 1, 0)
>
> Deleting that second line, and uncommenting that assignment works for
> me.  I get an AtributeError for Navigate, but examinining the generated
> .py file shows no such method.  I see state event change calls.  You are
> going to need to be willing to experiment :)
>
> Mark.
>





From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Jun  9 06:48:22 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 12:48:22 +0200
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <l1wug0jime.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <dbGdnaOrZJvZQkKjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <l1r867k8p8.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <M56cnfD9cN-LAH2jXTWcoQ@comcast.com> <l1isrikctv.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3he71hk52.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1u1b1h908.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3brx9xepd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1k7bwhnv5.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m33cikw4a0.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l1d6hng389.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <m3r863frwp.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Ed Avis <ed at membled.com> writes:

> Yes - I don't know enough about parser generators to tell what they
> do in the case of an ambiguity.  

Typically, they favour one arbitrary alternative over the other.
So it is best if the grammar is not ambiguous in the first place.

> Would it find a syntax error or would it pick one of the two
> alternatives based on which production occurs earlier in the grammar
> definition?

Out of the box, it wouldn't.

> Are there already legal Python constructs that match two or more
> grammar rules?

Not that I'm aware of.

Regards,
Martin



From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Sun Jun  1 04:02:52 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 08:02:52 GMT
Subject: Self-currying functions
References: <slrnbcm9ds.kfe.ramen@lackingtalent.com> <qsGya.27509$XV1.109@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <slrnbcrf5f.o6f.ramen@lackingtalent.com> <3ecff6e8$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <slrnbdfb06.b8d.ramen@lackingtalent.com> <3ed996e5@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <MqiCa.38513$fT5.22246@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> Dave Benjamin wrote:
> 
>> In article <3ecff6e8$1 at nntp0.pdx.net>, Scott David Daniels wrote:
>>>Dave Benjamin wrote:
>>>>...
>>>>The following is my response, adapted from your example to support Alex
>>>>Martelli's curry function (and as a result, curried named parameters). I'm
>>>>starting to find interesting uses I hadn't anticipated.
>>>>...
>>>
>>>I am curious why you would want this ability (as opposed to curry..), 
> >> it seems there is a difference between a function with zero arguments
> >> and the result of that function....
>>>     Shouldn't selfcurry(lambda:1) == 1?
>> 
>> I'm not sure that I understand your comments. The point of selfcurry is to
>> modify the behavior of an existing function of two or more arguments so that
>> they do not need to be supplied at once. A function of zero or one arguments
>> does not need to be curried. Maybe selfcurry should just give you back your
>> function, unmodified, in that case.
> 
> OK, I really am asking a question rahter than trying to score debate
> points.  What I am curious about is why the selfcurry interface is
> preferable to the curry interface.  As an invention, I can see either
> one showing up first, but your response to Carl Baks' implementation
> of selfcurry is not, "Oh, curry is what I probably want."

I'm sorry, but you're not making much sense here, and it's starting to
get on my nerves.

I don't understand why you think currying and self-currying are
essentially the same thing.  I mean, you can accomplish similar things
with them, but self-currying does it in a different way, which is
often convenient.

With a self-currying function, you can do this:

    map(f, [list_of_self_curried_functions])

instead of this:

    map(lambda x:curry(f,x), [list_of_self_curried_functions])

Don't you think that could be useful, especially if you have a lot of
currying to do?

The self-curry thing was inspired by Haskell, as was revealed in the
original post.  If currying was explicit in Haskell, then you would
see that, like, a third of the program would be curry operators.


>> I don't see what this specific construct has to do with side effects,
>> besides the obvious connection with functional programming.
> 
> OK, my exposure to currying is from functional programming.  The only
> way I can see making a zero-argument function equivalent to its result
> is in an environment where you care about when a function is executed.

Another thing: where are you getting this idea?  It's not completely
obvious why you think self-currying makes a function equivalent to its
result--do you want to explain it?

Is it because a self-currying function "calls itself" when it has
enough arguments?  I don't see that as being equivalent to it's
result, except superficially.

When you call a self-currying function, I just see it just as a call,
nothing more.  It returns a result.  The result could be another
(distinct) self-currying function, or it could be something else.


> If functions are side-effect free, it doesn't matter when they are
> executed, and it may well be reasonable to consider a function of zero
> arguments as equivalent to its result.  In other environments, a
> programmer generally cares precisely when the function is elaborated.
> I hope this makes clear why I was talking about side-effect-free.

Yes, but most functional programmers are aware of this and avoid
writing and using functions with side effects.  You talk as if
side-effect-free code in a language like Python is a pipe dream and
can never really be obtained, but that's really not the case.

And this problem is not restricted to self-currying functions: it's a
problem for functional programming in general.  And only a minor one.


>>>I am curious why you prefer the selfcurry interface (even assuming
>>>keyword issues are dealt with).  It seems to to violate "explicit
>>>is better than implicit."
>> Can you elaborate on that? ...
> 
> This is the crux of my question, I suppose.  Forgive me for going
> there again, but if there are no side-effects, then functions are
> simply expression rewrites, and there is no meaningful difference
> between a function with zero arguments and its result.  If there
> are side-effects (such as I/O), when code is executed is crucially
> important, and seldom would you write "r = f(a)" without knowing
> whether a side-effect can be expected to happen.  I'd expect list
> comprehensions and map to be seen as bad style (too cute a trick)
> if side-effects are expected, for example.

Yet people use them often, without side effects.  Don't you think
people will do the same with self-currying functions?


> The expicit/implicit thing I'm talking about is the moment the
> function is elaborated (or called, or ...).  Selfcurry turns a
> function of an arbitrary number of arguments into a function of
> one argument returning a function of one argument returning ...
> a result.  It is the "magic" result point that I don't get.
> Curry of a function and some arguments returns a function of
> fewer arguments (or, for keyword args, potentially different
> defaults).  You still always know when the function is invoked
> to return a result, and your call will always expect either a
> further function or a result.

Two things.

First, I don't see how this follows from the side-effects issue.  It's
now clear to me that you have two different concerns, and you haven't
yet been able to verbalize any distinction between the two, and it's
confusing everyone.  Here they are:

1. That self-currying functions can have undesired effects on
   functions with side effects
2. That you don't know whether you are getting a function or a result
   when you call a self-currying function

I've addressed #1, already, and I think it's an insignificant problem.
In fact, now I can see how concern about #1 follows from #2.  But, to
be frank, you did a very poor job conveying this.


Second thing: I'll answer concern #2.

You see, there's "functional programming" and "eXtreme functional
programming."  (The latter is not to be confused with "Extreme
Programming(tm) that happens to be functional".)

"Functional programming" is using a map, reduce, and filter.  "eXtreme
functional programming" is where you pass around functions of
functions of functions of functions.  "eXtreme functional programming"
is where 90 percent (or whatever) of the data you pass around is
functions (which are often functions of functions).

I'm guessing you don't have much experience with "eXtreme functional
programming."  To be honest, I haven't either, but I understand the
mindset.

"eXtreme functional programmers" can rarely grasp the whole program,
even though they wrote it themselves.  They usually only understand
the program in pieces, by examining what one function at a time.  When
you program like that, you are very in-tune with what you're passing
in and what you're passing out.  You have to be.  In particular, you
have to know, when you pass a function to (for instance) map, that it
can be called with one argument; and you know what you're able to do
with the result.

Using selfcurry is not a problem for "eXtreme functional programmers."
If they selfcurry a function taking four arguments, they will use it
where a four-argument function is appropriate.

Do you think it's "magic" that self-currying function return "curries"
sometimes and "results" other times?  What's the difference?  The
result is probably itself a self-curring function, in "eXtreme
functional programming."

Basically, what I'm saying is, #2 is not a problem.  You know how many
arguments a self-currying function needs, and you use it accordingly.
You know you are going to add parameter now, and two to the result of
that, so you're sure to use a function that returns a "result" after
three arguments.


Sure, you could use regular currying for all of this, but do you
really want half the program to be curry calls?



>> I am not advocating that everybody write functions that curry their own
>> arguments, or that we throw away the ability to name positional parameters
>> when calling functions. I'd just like the ability to write functions that
>> have this behavior, and now I have it, and I'm pretty happy about it. =)
> 
> And I am not saying you shouldn't have the use of whatever floats your
> boat. I am truly eager to hear a use case for selfcurry over curry.  Is
> it simply brevity in intermediate expressions, or is there something I
> am missing.  Do you feel, "yes, of course, you know when a value is 
> produced and a final 'bowlegs' would be no big deal," or "the whole
> point is to be able to deal with this ambiguously?"
> 
> For those listening in, the parens at the end of "fun()" are what I
> mean by bowlegs.  I presume Dave knows the term.

I hope I've shed some light on it.


-- 
CARL BANKS



From cben at techunix.technion.ac.il  Mon Jun  2 05:34:26 2003
From: cben at techunix.technion.ac.il (Beni Cherniavsky)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:34:26 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Emacs hack: help() to a window
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.51.0306011836400.19314@techunix.technion.ac.il>

I was annoyed by python-mode's broken recognition of quotes inside
triple quotes or unrelated output in the py-shell window (especially
help() output).  I'm using the following for a long time::

     class q:
         """Easily fix emacs' quoting confusion at prompt"""
         def __repr__(self):
             return "'"
     q = q()

so that I can type q RET to fix the py-shell when it becomes
string-colored.

But now I realized that help() should not mix with the flow of the
py-shell at all!  Here is my hack that redierct it to an emacs window.
In my .emacs::

    (require 'server)
    (require 'man)
    (require 'help-fns)
    (server-start)
    (defun server-handle-pyhelp ()
      "A hook hack for putting Python help in emacs help windows"
      (when (string-match "__pyhelp__$" (buffer-name))
        (let ((text (buffer-string)))
          (setq file-name-history
                (remove (buffer-file-name) file-name-history))
          (server-done)
          (switch-to-buffer "*Python*")
          (with-output-to-temp-buffer "*Python help*"
            (princ text)
            (with-current-buffer standard-output
              (Man-fontify-manpage))
            (print-help-return-message)))))
    (add-hook 'server-switch-hook 'server-handle-pyhelp)

And in my $PYTHONSTARTUP::

    # emacsclient help pager hack
    if os.environ.get('EMACS') == 't':
        import pydoc
        def emacspager(text):
            """Write to a temp. file and show in emacs window."""
            import tempfile
            # The magic suffix is recognized by my emacs
            filename = tempfile.mktemp(suffix='__pyhelp__')
            try:
                try:
                    f = file(filename, 'w')
                    f.write(text)
                finally:
                    f.close()
                os.system('emacsclient -a cat %s > /dev/null' %
                          (filename ,))
          finally:
             os.unlink(filename)
       pydoc.pager = emacspager

Enjoy!  Works for me (on linux, emacs-21.3-derivative).  It confuses
the emacs-server commands (C-x #) a bit, didn't manage to improve
this.

-- 
Beni Cherniavsky <cben at users.sf.net>




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Jun 13 12:36:40 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:36:40 -0500
Subject: OT: swearing (was: RE: OnFileOpent(self, event))
In-Reply-To: <20030613162753.3750.qmail@green.zadka.com>
References: <F1921F85572CB04D9F55B14BDC76B3E4434107@iron.ima.umn.edu> <20030613162753.3750.qmail@green.zadka.com>
Message-ID: <20030613163639.GJ23024@unpythonic.net>

On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 04:27:53PM -0000, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> dig up your ashes out and piss on them". Or "I hope you choke, go to 

YM "urinate" HTH

Jeff




From nav at adams.patriot.net  Wed Jun 18 14:32:53 2003
From: nav at adams.patriot.net (Nick Vargish)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 14:32:53 -0400
Subject: [OT] (was: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?)
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com> <Xns939D3EC4C9004JanC@213.119.4.94> <20030617063032.612B.KLAPOTEC@nusurf.at> <Xns939DABD5AD4CJanC@213.119.4.94> <3EEF3F2B.6BA5BA72@engcorp.com> <Xns939E2E07D8A6EJanC@213.119.4.94> <3EEFD22C.93B58AE3@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <yyyfzm7dyne.fsf@adams.patriot.net>

> JanC wrote:
> > I was talking about cars with "explosion engines" (or how do you call
> > that in correct English ;)

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:
> Internal combustion engines.  Or, at least, I hope so :-).

I don't know, I kind of like the idea of a Daedelus car engine... It
would certainly help reduce tailgating. :^)

Nick

NB. A Daedelus type spaceship uses "fusion pulses" for power, some
    proposals use fusion bombs as a a method of generating the pulses.
    (One presumes a lot of shielding would be involved, as well as
    some sort of inertial damping system...)

-- 
#include<stdio.h> /* SigMask 0.3 (sig.c) 19990429 PUBLIC DOMAIN "Compile Me" */
int main(c,v)char *v;{return !c?putchar(*v-1)&&main(0,v+ /* Tweaks welcomed. */
1):main(0,"Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAqbusjpu/ofu?\v\1");}  /* build: cc -o sig sig.c */



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jun 15 19:45:16 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 23:45:16 GMT
Subject: Python class __init__(mandatory arguments?)
References: <bcitu2$jrrv8$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bcj0ec$6fv$0@216.39.172.122>

On 15 Jun 2003 23:02:26 GMT, Lee John Moore <leej at dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

>Just for confirmation really: When I create a custom class, is
>it *really* true that def __init__() arguments can only ever be
>optional?  Eg:
>
>class MyClass:
>	param1 = None
>	param2 = None
>	def __init__(self, param1, param2):
>		param1 = self.param1
>		param2 = self.param2
You have the 'self.' on the wrong side of the '=' if you
want to bind the parameters as instance attributes.

If you wanted to rebind the class attributes, you didn't. Instead
you bound two locals of the __init__ method to the class attributes,
which would be found because they would not already exist as instance attributes.
And, barring further code in __init__, nothing would be done with the local bindings,
which would disappear on exit from __ini__.

>
>myinstance1 = MyClass()
>myinstance2 = MyClass("Hello", "World")
>[snip]
>
>I'm really unhappy that myinstance1 is allowed.  ;-)
I don't think you actually tried it in the form above ;-)

The parameters without default arguments should result in an exception if not provided.
Your code above is legal, though I doubt if it does what you intended, but it does
result in a complaint about missing arguments (the one given is the instance itself,
bound to self).

 >>> class MyClass:
 ...     param1 = None
 ...     param2 = None
 ...     def __init__(self, param1, param2):
 ...             param1 = self.param1
 ...             param2 = self.param2
 ...
 >>> myinstance1 = MyClass()
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: __init__() takes exactly 3 arguments (1 given)

Did you get something different?

 >>> myinstance2 = MyClass("Hello", "World")

It liked that, as far as arguments go.

 >>> myinstance1
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 NameError: name 'myinstance1' is not defined

myinstance1 was not bound because of the exception calling __init__

 >>> myinstance2
 < __main__.MyClass instance at 0x00796A80>

Was bound ok, but no instance attributes resulted.

 >>> vars(myinstance2)
 {}

However, the class attributes are findable:

 >>> dir(myinstance2)
 ['__doc__', '__init__', '__module__', 'param1', 'param2']

 >>> myinstance2.param1

(Interactive evaluation resulting in None doesn't print anything).

 >>> repr(myinstance2.param1)
 'None'

But repr() of same does.

 >>> vars(myinstance2.__class__)
 {'__init__': <function __init__ at 0x007A63C0>, '__module__': '__main__', 'param2': None, 'param
 1': None, '__doc__': None}

The contents of the class dict show the param1 and param2 values you bound in the class, as
well as your __init__ and a couple of automatically produced names.

>
>I'm so accustomed to constructor arguments being mandatory in
>C++ & OP classes....and yes, yes, I realise __init__() is not a
>constructor (even though it looks like one), but if there's a
>way I can *force* arguments upon class instantiation, I'd like
>to know about it. :-)
How much more force do you need? (You can check types and raise
whatever exception you want also, if you have to).

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From giva at users.sourceforge.net  Tue Jun 10 10:27:53 2003
From: giva at users.sourceforge.net (Gisle Vanem)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:27:53 +0200
Subject: Binding socket to an address
References: <bb8e9cd9.0306100543.139a76fe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3ee5eb48$1@news.broadpark.no>

"Morten W. Petersen" <morten at nidelven-it.no> wrote:

> I'm trying to bind httplib.HTTP requests to a local IP, using this class:
>
> class custom_http(httplib.HTTP):
>
>     def connect(self):
>         """Connect to the host and port specified in __init__."""
>         self.sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>         self.sock.bind(('216.93.187.217', 1234))
>         self.sock.connect((self.host, self.port))
>
> However, it doesn't work.  What am I doing wrong?

Godag. What do you need the bind() for? Looks like you're making
a client-program. If you'd made a server program, you need bind() and
listen().

--gv





From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Mon Jun  9 12:33:59 2003
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix))
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:33:59 -0500
Subject: simple, old-style graphic  ?
Message-ID: <55939F05720D954E9602518B77F6127F0217793A@FTWMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com>

We are using Tkinter...
 
You can also take a look at:
http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/

Vincent

-----Original Message-----
From: Alessandro de Manzano [mailto:demanzano at playstos.com]
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 12:07 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: simple, old-style graphic ?


Hello,

I'ld need a little suggestion :-)

For educational purposes I'ld find a Python module (Windows platform) to
draw simple 2D graphic (even 3D if possible, but is not a requirement)
Like very old Basics, so lines, points, circles, rectangles, colors, simple
text strings, etc.

As last resort I thought about some OpenGL module but I would really prefer
something easier and simpler.

Have you some idea ?

I accept any hints and suggestions :)


Many thanks in advance!


-- 

bye!

Alessandro de Manzano
Playstos - TIMA SpA
Milano, Italy
http://www.playstos.com


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jun  6 12:13:53 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-9?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 18:13:53 +0200
Subject: C or C++ in Python
In-Reply-To: <1054912757.3ee0b0f50ea5a@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr>
References: <1054912757.3ee0b0f50ea5a@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <3EE0BDC1.2000702@ghaering.de>

Erhan Ekici wrote:
> Hi...
> 
> I work with Numerical Calculations in Ptyhon..
> I wanna calculate some part of my project using C or C++ in Python in order to 
> gain speed and time.
> 
> I tried weave program.Weave  doesn't start.Because No C compiler 
> in my system.Then I download MinGW 2.0.0.3.exe for gcc but weave.test() give 
> errors...

You don't have gcc/g++ in your system PATH. That's why weave can't find it.

Anyway, I've quickly tried to test weave and it looks to me as if it 
doesn't work with my g++ 3.2.2 I have from mingw. I see two options:

- downgrade to a mingw with g++ 2.95.x that's supported according to the 
weave website

- try if a development version of weave can work with the newest g++

> What is problem ? and to use C or C++ in python, what should I do except Weave ?

FWIW I'd suppose that more people qualified for answering weave problems 
can be found on the SciPy list.

-- Gerhard




From erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr  Sat Jun 14 11:38:39 2003
From: erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr (Erhan Ekici)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 18:38:39 +0300
Subject: wxPython download
In-Reply-To: <UjGGa.89780$pR3.1904020@news1.tin.it>
References: <UjGGa.89780$pR3.1904020@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <1055605119.3eeb417fd4d04@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr>

Quoting Lorenzo Bolognini <lorenzo at mysurname.net>:
>wxPython downloads (all versions) aren't
> working @ sf.net

before a few min. I try and Download wxPython @ sf.net

>didn't know how to report it to the wxPython coders 

http://sourceforge.net/users/robind/

wxPython developer profile @sf.net and you can messages to robind that is 
wxPython Projects Admin

Erhan,



-- 

Erhan Ekici
ITU Distance Learning Center
E-Mail  : erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr

www.uzem.itu.edu.tr






From a at b.c  Mon Jun  9 08:59:07 2003
From: a at b.c (a)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 12:59:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Newbie Question re Python 2.2.2 WIN
References: <Xns9394A2EFE7E51pythonidaeunderscore@203.220.9.230> <Xns9394A8AABA933abc@194.106.32.13> <Xns9395748B5A2D0pythonidaeunderscore@203.220.9.230>
Message-ID: <Xns93958E810DE77abc@194.106.32.13>

Ben Minton <pythonidae_olivaceous at hotmail.com> wrote in
news:Xns9395748B5A2D0pythonidaeunderscore at 203.220.9.230: 

> a <a at b.c> wrote in news:Xns9394A8AABA933abc at 194.106.32.13:
> 
>> http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
>> 
> 
> thanks sfb ... i thought that might be the case, but wasn't sure. 
> at the python shell .... with the >>> what is the command to bring run
> an python script, say my_first_script.py?

I don't know that there is one, usually you run a script from the 
operating system with;
c:\> python my_first_script.py

(Get to the command prompt with Start -> run -> cmd.exe )

> Is there another way, perhaps just going into the folder where the
> scripts are stored and clinking on the file name while, the python
> engine is running?

If you double-click on a blah.py file in Windows, it should be set up to 
run with Python (whether it is already running or not). If this doesn't 
work by default, then choose "Open With" and "c:\python22\python.exe" (or 
use wherever you installed Python). This will work but the script will 
usually run and finish too fast to see anything useful. Try adding 
something like;

ignored_response = raw_input("Press any key to continue...")

to the end of your script to get a readable output.

- sfb.




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Sat Jun 14 21:28:48 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 01:28:48 GMT
Subject: Saving Files Under Windows
References: <3EE993CB.F2CE7D39@easystreet.com> <e5fa8458.0306130649.38a7fea5@posting.google.com> <3EEA0E37.500BB9D8@easystreet.com> <3EEA1578.1C38F271@engcorp.com> <Xns9399CFACD7A48JanC@213.118.79.108> <3EEA3D65.E8C2EDB6@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <Xns939B2363F7DCDJanC@213.118.79.108>

achrist at easystreet.com schreef:

> The two functions for clients to call are GetSharedOutputDir()
> and GetUserOutputDir().  If you are running on a pre-Win2K 
> OS, you've got to create a function GetRegistryAppDataDir() to
> return wherever the installer or equivalent thought the data
> should go.  Presumably this will work ok, because if the user
> moves the data, they will also change the registry setting (maybe).
> For win2K or newer, we read the Shell Folders and go from there.

My Win98SE system with MSIE 5.5 & Office 2K installed and using a login 
name has:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders
- AppData
- Local AppData
- Personal

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\explorer\Shell Folders
- Common AppData
- Personal


But I'm almost sure a "virgin" Win98SE (or earlier) install doesn't have 
all of these keys...

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Jun 16 16:35:05 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 22:35:05 +0200
Subject: Writing tkinter application with hebrew text
References: <b2b5c45f.0306160913.4579442b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m34r2pu5fq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

nicbar at mail.com (Nic) writes:

> I am using python 2.2 and the pythonwin ide. In the code, I can see
> the hebrew text but the moment the window with a label is displayed, I
> get greek characters. Can someone please tell me how to display hebrew
> in tkinter?

You should make sure you are using Unicode string.

l=Tkinter.Label(text=u"\N{HEBREW LETTER ALEF}\u05d1")

works fine for me. If you want to use a certain encoding (say,
ISO-8859-8), you should do

l=Tkinter.Label(text=unicode(text_encoded_in_8859_8, "iso-8859-8"))

HTH,
Martin



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Wed Jun 18 16:13:16 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:13:16 +0100
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com> <5g5vevsu4c5rr5d5scks4tfjqe5mpn1h4j@4ax.com> <CbmcnY5W9IN5F22jXTWJkQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3th1fvk04fbs90896jnp3o5oj3ikjcenod@4ax.com>

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:53:07 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
wrote:

>reportedly plan to do with RAVAntiVirus.  That they cannot do, (unless
>they spent billions to buy off every Python programmer in the world).

Suddenly I /like/ this scenario!



From exarkun at intarweb.us  Sun Jun  8 14:34:39 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:34:39 -0400
Subject: Characters in Python
In-Reply-To: <just-266872.12001308062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <aaf09156.0306050423.21b45f6@posting.google.com> <23891c90.0306060626.24e6646d@posting.google.com> <aaf09156.0306071439.2a156033@posting.google.com> <m33cilxebk.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <just-266872.12001308062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20030608183439.GA25666@meson.dyndns.org>

On Sun, Jun 08, 2003 at 12:00:13PM +0200, Just wrote:
> In article <m33cilxebk.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>,
>  martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis) wrote:
> 
> > jansun at home.se (Jan Sundstr?m) writes:
> > 
> > > By the way, where do I find what strings are acceptable names for
> > > encodings?
> > 
> > http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/node126.html
> 
> Is it possible to get at a list of the available encoding names at 
> runtime?
> 
> Just

  No.  Rather than registering encodings, in the Python system, you register
predicate functions.  When an encoding is requested, Python calls all the
registered predicates in turn with the encoding name.  When one returns the
appropriate values (encoder and decoder objects) rather than None, it uses
those objects to handle the encoding.

  Jp

-- 
Seduced, shaggy Samson snored.
She scissored short.  Sorely shorn,
Soon shackled slave, Samson sighed,
Silently scheming,
Sightlessly seeking
Some savage, spectacular suicide.
                -- Stanislaw Lem, "Cyberiad"




From jfabiani at yolo.com  Sun Jun  8 14:05:05 2003
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (John Fabiani)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 18:05:05 GMT
Subject: [Pycrust] Seg fault 
References: <WPrEa.110$bU.9638011@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <lVKEa.784$1F4.565@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>

John Fabiani wrote:

> Hi,
> Using SuSE 8.2
> Python 2.2.2
> I'm having one heck of a time getting Python things right on this Distro.
> Currently, Pycrust creates an segment fault anytime I attempt to start it.
> The wxPython demo works without issues.  I can run PythonCard minimal.py.
> 
> The only other issue is with Idle - after I have been using Idle for about
> 20 minutes (maybe more) I lose the contents of the windows.  This happens
> after I minimize the editing window and the Idle window and attempt to
> reopen them. So when they reopen - the window is there (but does not
> respond) and it has no contents (controls etc) - it's blank.
> 
> Anyone have a clue what's happening.
I decided that the cause had to do with the install.  So I downloaded the
latest wxPython - installed and now all works.  I have not a clue what
caused the problem.  This sounds like a windows box - reinstall it doesn't
work.  Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
-- 
John Fabiani



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jun 10 17:57:24 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:57:24 -0700
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
References: <mailman.1055217438.10041.python-list@python.org> <dd5454fb.0306101346.201331fc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE65444.907E6D87@alcyone.com>

Jonathan Claggett wrote:

> How about overloading the keyword "is" instead of "as"? As far as
> English readability is concerned, this might be clearer. "Is" also
> fits in well with established OO terminology (e.g., a square is a
> rhombus, a function is a static method).

Deja vu.  The benefit, as I see it, is that `as' is a secondary keyword
-- it presently only has meaning in conjunction with an 'import'
statement.  Since it's a lowly little preposition, it doesn't have all
that much intrinsic meaning by itself.  If adding keywords were "free,"
perhaps some new word might be helpful, such as `has'.  But there is
significant inertia against adding new keywords, so if we can make do
with old ones, so much the better.  I personally think that `as' is a
very good choice for this because of its secondary nature.

The problem with using `is' is that it already has a very specific
meaning, namely in the use of the `is' operator.  

> Using "is" here could even conceivably lend itself to using the "is"
> expression to determine the qualities of a method.
> 
> example:
>     if func is staticmethod: print "it's static"

While I don't think that `is' is a particularly good choice for the job,
simultaneously doubling up meaning for the keyword and extending and
ambiguiating the meaning of the already-existing `is' operator seems
like a painfully bad idea to me.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I'm spreading my wings and I fly / I'm still as the night
\__/  Chante Moore



From noah at noah.org  Mon Jun  9 20:32:38 2003
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 17:32:38 -0700
Subject: File reading using delimiters
References: <153fa67.0306090752.218d23b1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0306091632.54766104@posting.google.com>

kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan) wrote in message news:<153fa67.0306090752.218d23b1 at posting.google.com>...
> All the examples of reading files in Python seem to concern reading a
> line at a time. But this is not much good to me as I want to be able
> to read up to arbitrary delimiters without worrying about how many
> lines I'm spanning. With my rudimentary Python knowledge I'm having to
> read in multiple lines, concatenate them, search for the delimiter,
> split the result if necessary, and carry forward whatever was after
> the delimiter to the next operation. Is there a better way of reading
> until a certain character is encountered, and no more?

My Pexpect module is good for this type of scanning.
    http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/
Your code might then look like the follwing examples. Pexpect can match single
chars or arbitrary strings or regular expressions or lists of all of the above.
Note that Pexpect works on file descriptors. It doesn't operate
directly on file-like objects, so it wouldn't work on a StringIO object
(maybe I'll add that feature to future versions). But true file objects
have a file descriptor, so this should do what you want. 

Store this test data in a file called "my_happy_file":
    This is data for the first chunk
    FIRST_DELIMITER This is now data for the second chunk.
    Notice that this chunk can span multiple lines.
    The delimiter can also sepcified as a regular expression.
    The delimiter does not need to be on a separate line. SECOND_DELIMITER

--- first exmaple -------------------------------------------------------------
import pexpect
fin = file ('my_happy_file', 'r')
reader = pexpect.spawn (fin.fileno()) # Uses the file descriptor of fin.
reader.expect ('FIRST_DELIMITER')
first_chunk = reader.before  # everything before the expected delimiter.
reader.expect ('SEC.*_DELIMITER')
second_chunk = reader.before
print first_chunk
print second_chunk
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note that since you can look for a regular expression with subgroups 
that you could also match all your fields with one regular expression:

--- Second exmaple ------------------------------------------------------------
import pexpect
fin = file ('my_happy_file', 'r')
reader = pexpect.spawn (fin.fileno())
reader.expect ('(.*)FIRST_DELIMITER(.*)SECOND_DELIMITER')
print reader.match.group(1)
print reader.match.group(2)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yours,
Noah



From beliavsky at aol.com  Thu Jun 19 15:40:07 2003
From: beliavsky at aol.com (beliavsky at aol.com)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 12:40:07 -0700
Subject: testing two lists for equality
Message-ID: <3064b51d.0306191140.3d4094fe@posting.google.com>

If x and y are both lists (or tuples), is the expression

(x == y)  

true if and only if len(x) = len(y) and all of the corresponding
elements in x and y are the same?

I did not see this behavior documented in "Python Essential
Reference", but it makes sense and agrees with a few experiments I
did.



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jun 11 17:25:10 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:25:10 -0400
Subject: unittest: Dynamically creating tests
References: <pan.2003.06.11.23.37.20.424513@jerf.org> <mailman.1055356374.23599.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0306111309.fa4c464@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE79E36.961098DC@engcorp.com>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> 
> Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1055356374.23599.python-list at python.org>...
> >
> > There's also
> >     globals()['foo'] = 'bar'
> > and, of course, exec.
> >
> 
> I seems to remember (from reading the standard library)
> that assigning directly to globals() is not recommended; am
> I correct ? What can go wrong with this?

Are you misremembering the part about assigning to locals()
being very bad?  I thought assigning to globals() was fine 
technically, whether there were stylistic concerns or not.

-Peter



From nav at adams.patriot.net  Fri Jun 20 12:25:23 2003
From: nav at adams.patriot.net (Nick Vargish)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 12:25:23 -0400
Subject: Alternatives to Python ?
References: <3EF18A03.3050706@netspace.net.au> <a6154072.0306191947.5f5510@posting.google.com> <3EF28908.1CE42D62@easystreet.com> <3EF2DD6D.F4065AF3@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <yyyel1obtsc.fsf@adams.patriot.net>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> For example, using Perl, which is a lot like what you describe 
> above, minus the tube and the bottle...

Actually, Perl is like having the tube and the bottle, but two months
from now you have to drink what's in the bottle.

Nick

-- 
#include<stdio.h> /* SigMask 0.3 (sig.c) 19990429 PUBLIC DOMAIN "Compile Me" */
int main(c,v)char *v;{return !c?putchar(*v-1)&&main(0,v+ /* Tweaks welcomed. */
1):main(0,"Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAqbusjpu/ofu?\v\1");}  /* build: cc -o sig sig.c */



From icarroll at pobox.com  Thu Jun  5 06:13:43 2003
From: icarroll at pobox.com (W Isaac Carroll)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 03:13:43 -0700
Subject: Yield inside try...finally
References: <bbiisd$76k$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <3EDCEC1F.96CB0766@hotmail.com> <bbkbi5$n97$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <3EDDC045.E45DA524@hotmail.com> <698f09f8.0306050115.76fd8f98@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EDF17D7.5040105@pobox.com>

Jeremy Fincher wrote:
> I wonder if he's considered relaxing that restriction to allow at most
> *one* try: finally: block, or any number of try: finally: blocks whose
> finally: clauses are identical (which is effectively equivalent to a
> single finally: clause).  He could then just compile the finally code
> into an __del__ method on the generator-iterator.

I don't think it's that simple. For example:

     def finalgen():
         while not done:
             try:
                 foo = makefoo()
                 yield foo
             finally:
                 cleanup(foo)
             yield somethingelse

At the first yield statement, the generator would need a __del__ method 
that calls cleanup(foo). At the second yield statement, no __del__ 
method is needed because cleanup(foo) was called when the generator was 
resumed. Solving this problem, however, would lift your proposed 
restriction that only one finally block be allowed.

TTFN





From suzuki611 at oki.com  Mon Jun  2 01:23:54 2003
From: suzuki611 at oki.com (SUZUKI Hisao)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:23:54 +0900
Subject: Imaging-1.1.4 on Cygwin (Re: Can PIL be installed under Cygwin?)
Message-ID: <200306020523.OAA20488@suzuki611.ngo.okisoft.co.jp>

Three months ago in <mailman.1048868263.30045.python-list at python.org>,
Jason Tishler <jason at tishler.net> wrote:
> Did you see the following?
>     http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin/2002-05/msg00582.html
[snip]
> Use the above URL (possibly modified to deal with the latest Cygwin
> Tcl/Tk package) to build a Cygwin PIL.

I am afraid the method described there is too complicated and may
affect the Cygwin system extensively to build the Imaging library...
I succeeded in making Imaging-1.1.4 from the source in an easier way
though it was a bit of quick hack.

1) Install the current Cygwin packages of "python", "jpeg",
   "XFree86-prog" (for /usr/X11R6/include/X11/*) and others.

2) Modify the file "setup.py".

*** Imaging-1.1.4/setup.py~	Fri May  9 12:00:56 2003
--- Imaging-1.1.4/setup.py	Mon Jun  2 02:15:20 2003
***************
*** 120,131 ****
  # configure imagingtk module
  
  try:
!     import _tkinter
!     TCL_VERSION = _tkinter.TCL_VERSION[:3]
  except (ImportError, AttributeError):
      pass
  else:
!     INCLUDE_DIRS = ["libImaging"]
      LIBRARY_DIRS = ["libImaging"]
      LIBRARIES = ["Imaging"]
      EXTRA_COMPILE_ARGS = None
--- 120,133 ----
  # configure imagingtk module
  
  try:
!     #import _tkinter
!     #TCL_VERSION = _tkinter.TCL_VERSION[:3]
!     TCL_VERSION = "84"
  except (ImportError, AttributeError):
      pass
  else:
!     # INCLUDE_DIRS = ["libImaging"]
!     INCLUDE_DIRS = ["libImaging", "/usr/X11R6/include"]
      LIBRARY_DIRS = ["libImaging"]
      LIBRARIES = ["Imaging"]
      EXTRA_COMPILE_ARGS = None

3) Follow the instructions written in "README":
      $ cd libImaging
      $ ./configure
      $ make
      $ cd ..
      $ python setup.py build
      $ python setup.py install

4) Now you can test the library:
      $ python selftest.py
      55 tests passed.

Hope this helps, though it may be too late.

-- SUZUKI Hisao




From knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk  Tue Jun 17 12:34:13 2003
From: knightsofspamalot-factotum at gvdnet.dk (Martin Christensen)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:34:13 +0200
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055859955.6466.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87ptlcbr3u.fsf@gvdnet.dk>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>>> "Dirk" == Dirk Gerrits <dirk at gerrits.homeip.net> writes:
Dirk> ... you are forced to use a variety of programming languages at
Dirk> school in a variety of projects, and for each and everyone of
Dirk> them you explain to your friends how much easier it would have
Dirk> been to solve this in Python instead of the language we were
Dirk> supposed to use.

I speak from experience when I say that this can quickly get on
people's nerves. Whenever I mention Python, it is always accompanied
by loud groans from my friends. :-)

Martin

- -- 
Homepage:       http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/
GPG public key: http://www.cs.auc.dk/~factotum/gpgkey.txt
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using Mailcrypt+GnuPG <http://www.gnupg.org>

iEYEARECAAYFAj7vQwUACgkQYu1fMmOQldVfIACgxz8OLJXOlTT0TfteIA7QsdTU
5fIAn1ZcWECUZCTYxshY6lGu5xKeodVl
=tL+8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 16 10:13:34 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:13:34 +0100
Subject: class variable declarations...
References: <bckftl$k0pe7$1@ID-129053.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EEDD08E.C973E017@hotmail.com>

Lee John Moore wrote:

> My biggest mental block with python seems to be undeclared variables.  A
> declaration block alone is handy for reference.  Statically typed
> languages have really messed me up.  Is there a therapy group for
> refugees?  ;-)

How about this, using new style classes:-

class SpeedTouchComm(object):
    "Interface with the SpeedTouch router"
    
    __slots__ = ['connect', 'uid', 'pwd', 'rtuid', 'rtpwd']
    
    def __init__(self, connect, uid, pwd, rtuid, rtpwd):
        self.connect = connect
        self.uid = uid
        self.pwd = pwd
        self.rtuid = rtuid
        self.rtpwd = rtpwd
        self.namenotinslots = ''

>>> o = SpeedTouchComm(1,2,3,4,5)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "<stdin>", line 12, in __init__
AttributeError: 'SpeedTouchComm' object has no attribute 'namenotinslots'
>>>

There are more sophisticated ways to manipulate object instances and data, for
example using descriptors or __metaclasses__. But I think that this mostly
solves your difficulty.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Jun 17 03:25:46 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:25:46 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <3EEDDA04.8000005@netspace.net.au> <3EEDD203.54F5672B@engcorp.com> <mailman.1055773665.28647.python-list@python.org> <1fwnw3e.1c42kx0qj1exoN%kpreid@attglobal.net> <mailman.1055820630.15621.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <_nzHa.187869$g92.3806719@news2.tin.it>

Steven Taschuk wrote:

> Quoth Kevin Reid:
>   [...]
>> I'll put my gripe here just because you mentioned named parameters:
>> 
>> I would like to use named parameters more often in Python, but I don't
>> like them being required to be optional.
> 
> They're not, in 2.2.2 at least:
> 
>     >>> def foo(a):
>     ...     print a
>     ...
>     >>> foo(a=3)
>     3
>     >>> foo()
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>     TypeError: foo() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)
> 
> Do I misunderstand your gripe?

Not sure about the OP's gripe, but one mildly legitimate gripe might
be that this simple approach doesn't allow the definer of foo to require
it to be called ONLY as "foo(a=value)" -- the call "foo(value)" (with
an anonymous actual parameter) would also be accepted.  If you want to
force the caller to use a named actual-parameter you'd have to code e.g.:

def foo(**k):
    if k.keys()!=['a']:
        raise TypeError, "foo must be called as foo(a=<somevalue>), only"
    a = k['a']
    """ proceed normally from here onwards """

However, I think the correct answer to this hypothetical gripe is that
Python isn't about "forcing"; it does let you (definer of foo) "force"
your caller to use named-form for the actual parameter, but it's quite
all right that you'll be required to use a couple lines of boilerplate
for the purpose.  Of course, if you did that often, you'd encapsulate the
whole "forcing preamble" as a reusable function such as:

def foo(**k):
    a, b = forcenames(k, ['a', 'b'])
    """ proceed normally from here onwards """

with e.g.

def forcenames(k, names):
    if len(k) != len(names):
        raise TypeError, "named parameters %s are required" % (names,)
    parms = []
    for name in names:
        parms.append(k[name])
    return parms

or some slightly more elaborate version of forcenames to raise better
exceptions if some required name is not among those passed.


Alex




From henk.derudder at nowayyouneedthis.sciatl.com  Wed Jun 18 03:46:38 2003
From: henk.derudder at nowayyouneedthis.sciatl.com (henk.derudder at nowayyouneedthis.sciatl.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:46:38 GMT
Subject: minidom question from a newbie
Message-ID: <3e37e260.774392843@news.skynet.be>

Hi wizards,

I am using minidom from xml.dom and noticed there is some nice
function like
root = minidom.parse(filename)
which parses my xml-file and which gives me some tree-structure of the
XML-elements. Is it possible to go the other way around, like building
that tree structure in memory and saving this in XML-file?

thanks,

Henk



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jun 11 14:15:25 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 14:15:25 -0400
Subject: PEP-317
References: <1055255402.3ee5eb6ae09ee@mcherm.com> <1055312155.157424@yasure> <roy-B36181.09340211062003@reader1.panix.com> <2259b0e2.0306110902.7d7f456d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bc7rjt$k3e$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <2259b0e2.0306110902.7d7f456d at posting.google.com>,
Michele Simionato <mis6 at pitt.edu> wrote:
>
>I don't know what is expected for Python 3000, but I would like to
>have a compatibility switch on the command line. I think the Python
>3.0 distribution should contain a Python 2.4 or 2.5 or whatever
>inside it, accessible with a switch or changing some settings and
>file associations.  Only in this way I would accept code breaking
>changes. Nothing is more annoying that a perfectly good old program no
>more working due to an upgrade.  

No problem!  Just call python2.4 directly.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From roy at panix.com  Wed Jun 11 17:15:23 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:15:23 -0400
Subject: finding unused variables in Python code
References: <3064b51d.0306111252.61cdfa2e@posting.google.com> <bc85n1$p95$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <roy-9F6528.17152311062003@reader1.panix.com>

Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> beliavsky at aol.com wrote:
> 
> > Is there any tool to find variables in Python code that are defined but 
> > never
> > used?
> 
> google("pychecker")[0]

The first entry I get from google when I search for pychecker is "Did 
you mean: paycheck".  Is there some hidden meaning here? :-)



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jun  5 09:31:12 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 09:31:12 -0400
Subject: Singleton class: what is the purpose?
References: <mailman.1054811769.993.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbngn0$177$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1054811769.993.python-list at python.org>,
Gerrit Holl  <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:
>
>What is a singleton class? What is the purpose of a singleton class?

I'd like to reinforce Aldo's point (very late in his post) that modules
are the canonical simple way to get singleton behavior in Python.  In
addition, if you'll only be accessing the singleton object from one
module (the one that creates it), use a class object (*not* an instance)
as your singleton.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov  Thu Jun  5 19:35:31 2003
From: romberg at smaug.fsl.noaa.gov (Mike Romberg)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 17:35:31 -0600
Subject: Python IO performance?
References: <m33civ37b2.fsf@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <ul365nkksho.fsf@smaug.fsl.noaa.gov>

>>>>> " " == Ganesan R <rganesan at myrealbox.com> writes:

     > Hi,

     > I apologize for bringing up this topic again. I am sure I am
     > missing something obvious. I am a relatively recent perl to
     > python convert and I always had a nagging feeling that
     > processing text files with python was slow. I set about
     > experimenting. Here's my version of cat in python

     > ==== #!/usr/bin/python2.2

     > import fileinput
     > for line in fileinput.input(): 
     >     print line

[snip]

     > Here's my equivalent perl code:

     > ==== #!/usr/bin/perl -w
     > while (<>) 
     >    { print; }

  I'm not so certain that these are equivalent.  I'm not really a perl
expert, but I bet the perl version behaves more like the traditional
cat in that it just sends the data from one source to the sink.  But
the python fileinput module is reading the data a *line* at a time.
This means that it has to examine each character to find the newlines.

  I whiped up this example which is probably not equivalent either
(benchmarks being what they are):

import sys
f = open(sys.argv[1], 'rb')
s = f.read(4096)
while s != '':
    print s
    s = f.read(4096)

  Here we just read the data a block at a time and write it back to
stdout.  This avoids the newline check.  With this version, I get:

> ls -l /var/lib/rpm/Packages
-rw-r--r--    1 rpm      rpm      48234496 Apr 11 10:22 /var/lib/rpm/Packages
> time perl cat.pl /var/lib/rpm/Packages  > /dev/null
9.120u 0.770s 0:23.37 42.3%     0+0k 0+0io 266pf+0w
> time python cat.py /var/lib/rpm/Packages > /dev/null
0.410u 0.570s 0:02.27 43.1%     0+0k 0+0io 479pf+0w

Mike Romberg (romberg at fsl.noaa.gov)



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Fri Jun  6 15:05:27 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 20:05:27 +0100
Subject: Loop over list of pairs
References: <mailman.1054854312.7478.python-list@python.org> <yfsof1buwd3.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <yfsisrjuivc.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> writes:

> def xgroup(it, n=2):
>     assert n>1    # ensure it doesn't loop forever
>     it = iter(it)
>     perTuple = xrange(n)
>     while 1:
>         yield tuple([it.next() for i in perTuple])
> 
> 'as

of course it should be ``assert n>0``

'as



From missive at frontiernet.net  Sat Jun 21 11:04:41 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 15:04:41 GMT
Subject: dynamic creating of class
References: <ulj8fvcs6483dh7khpl6jm6fsu26snnjv1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbf8t1q.urc.missive@localhost.my.domain>

In article <ulj8fvcs6483dh7khpl6jm6fsu26snnjv1 at 4ax.com>:
> Is there a possibility for Python to dynamic binding of class?  I can
> do it in PHP but I do not know how to make the same in Python. 
> Look at the following example:
> 
> #PHP:
><?php
> class A {
>     var $x = 'class A';
> }
> class B {
>     var $x = 'class B';
> }
> $kind = 'B';
> $run = new $kind(); # IT WORKS!
> print $run->x;
> ?>
> 
> #Python:
> class A:
> 	x = 'class A'
> class B:
> 	x = 'class B'
> kind = 'B'
> run = kind() # IS DOES NOT WORK :(
> print run.x



maybe something like this might help:

class A:
    def __init__(self):
        self.name = 'A instance'

class B:
    def __init__(self):
        self.name = 'B instance'

my_class_list = [A, B]
my_class_dict = {'A': A, 'B': B}

a_choice = 'A'
b_choice = 'B'

instance0 = my_class_list[ord(a_choice) - ord('A')]()
instance1 = my_class_dict[b_choice]()

print instance0.name
print instance1.name




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jun  9 09:02:36 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 09:02:36 -0400
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <m3isrffr49.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>, <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <PbidnQB3TIQbEX-jXTWcpg@comcast.com> <l18yschlge.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3ptlouoq6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <l14r2zg2yq.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1055158397.32494.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <NdKdnazvyp7WG3mjXTWcqQ@comcast.com>

"Moshe Zadka" <m at moshez.org> wrote in message
news:mailman.1055158397.32494.python-list at python.org...
> Well, I don't know about yield or exec, but I actually *would* like
to
> print from lambdas, I do it a lot when debugging Twisted code:

Which you can do with more control (and more effort) with file.write.
The funny thing is that Guido intended print as a quick and easy
substitute with reasonable defaults mainly for interactive use, with
the expectation that production code would use the more exact full
form.  But the defaults are so useful that demand arose to 'print' to
any file, not just stdout, hence '>>file'.  And now the request to
print rather than write within lambda.

A print function would be more useful here, but having to add ()s
would generally be a nuisance otherwise.  So there was a tradeoff.

Terry J. Reedy





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun 18 11:31:30 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:31:30 -0600
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <873ci7o7c0.fsf@pobox.com>; from jjl@pobox.com on Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 02:15:11PM +0100
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3EEDEDBE.BCB56D6E@engcorp.com> <HGMnCw.5tM@arl.mil> <un0gg6ve3.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <873ci7o7c0.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20030618093130.A637@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth John J. Lee:
  [...]
> I agree with this.  I don't know what all the fuss is about with the
> interactive prompt.  I certainly do use it, quite frequently, but
> don't see a huge difference here between Python and statically-typed
> compiled languages (especially given a good IDE -- like unix + emacs
> etc.).
> 
> Maybe only me and David make lots of mistakes at the interactive
> prompt ;-)

I'm a big fan of the interactive prompt, but certainly not for
coding -- I too make too many mistakes for that to be practical,
and I prefer my text editor anyway.  But I find it greatly eases
debugging and one-off data munging tasks.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
Every public frenzy produces legislation purporting to address it.
                                                  (Kinsley's Law)




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jun 10 11:29:13 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:29:13 -0400
Subject: Binding socket to an address
References: <bb8e9cd9.0306100543.139a76fe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EE5F949.9A66AF21@engcorp.com>

"Morten W. Petersen" wrote:
> 
> I'm trying to bind httplib.HTTP requests to a local IP, using this class:
> 
> class custom_http(httplib.HTTP):
> 
>     def connect(self):
>         """Connect to the host and port specified in __init__."""
>         self.sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>         self.sock.bind(('216.93.187.217', 1234))
>         self.sock.connect((self.host, self.port))
> 
> However, it doesn't work.  What am I doing wrong?

Works here.  Please define "doesn't work", preferably with a traceback
or specific symptoms.  In my case, I just did this from a DOS prompt:

In window #1:

>>> from socket import *
>>> s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
>>> s.bind(('', 5555))
>>> s.listen(5)
>>> c = s.accept()
# there's a pause here while I connect from window #2, below
>>> c
(<socket._socketobject instance at 007A560C>, ('192.168.0.66', 6666))

In window #2:

>>> from socket import *
>>> s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
>>> s.bind(('192.168.0.66', 6666))
>>> s.connect(('localhost', 5555))
>>> s.getpeername()
('127.0.0.1', 5555)

-Peter



From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Thu Jun 26 02:30:48 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:30:48 +1000
Subject: socket programming project
In-Reply-To: <J%vKa.2730$BM.1642219@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
References: <J%vKa.2730$BM.1642219@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <20030626063048.GC17335@frobozz>

On Thu, Jun 26, 2003 at 06:02:17AM +0000, drs wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a programming design question.  I would like to do this in Python,
> but I am not even sure about what tools are proper or where to start
> reading.

An excellent tool for socket programming is Twisted:
    http://twistedmatrix.com/

> I am trying to make a small network system where several client computers
> connect to a server.  each client can send messages to the server which must
> alert all of the clients of the information in the messages.  Further, the
> server must be able to alert all connected clients about other occasional
> information. The total number of messages is low, however. for now, security
> is not an issue if that matters.

You might like PB, Twisted's remote object protocol, which can do all this.
It might be overkill though; I recommend you take a look at the docs and
decide for yourself.  Twisted also has support for lots of standard
protocols, including stuff like XML-RPC.

If you want to use a custom protocol, that's also pretty easy in Twisted.

> I know a way to do this in win32 using dcom, but this seems sloppy, and i
> need it to run on freebsd and win32 at a minimum, and pocketPC if at all
> possible. I also thought about using ZEO coupled with a Queue class, but I
> am not sure about clients reacting to events in this case, or about ZODB/ZEO
> on pocketPC.

Twisted runs on FreeBSD and Win32, and I seem to recall someone got it
working on a PocketPC or something like it without too much effort.  

> (The specifics of the project are to make a wifi enabled jukebox out of an
> old freebsd computer hooked to my stereo which can be controlled by all of
> the other computers in the house. I did a previous version of this using
> SimpleHTTPServer, but this seems a dead end for forcing the playlist queue
> and such onto clients.)

That sounds like an excellent use for Twisted.  I don't think it's actively
developed, but there's a project called "mc-foo" that is a Jukebox using
Twisted.  You may want to start there, rather from scratch.

-Andrew.





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Jun 17 22:19:25 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 21:19:25 -0500
Subject: pack and unpack problems
In-Reply-To: <20030618014303.0DCCB269AC@www.fastmail.fm>
References: <20030618014303.0DCCB269AC@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20030618021925.GA23637@unpythonic.net>

>>> import struct
>>> data = "x" * 18
>>> print struct.unpack("xxLxx8c", data)
(2021161080L, 'x', 'x', 'x', 'x', 'x', 'x', 'x', 'x')

Jeff




From clpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Tue Jun 17 08:13:11 2003
From: clpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Armin Massa)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:13:11 GMT
Subject: RTF editor in Python
References: <3eeef1e6$1_1@noticias.ulpgc.es>
Message-ID: <Xns939D98AEA15DDclpl19ghumspamgourme@154.15.249.26>

Enrice,

you can use wxStyledText-Control. scintilla is able to export rtf or html

Also the wxText-Control supports rtf, at least within win32.


Harald



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jun 14 18:11:29 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 18:11:29 -0400
Subject: Reading from a FIFO, burning CPU
References: <bcg2m8$iqmme$1@ID-113469.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3EEB9D91.D2DE38A@engcorp.com>

"Elmar W. Hoefner" wrote:
> 
> Hi there!
> 
> I tried to continuously stream a FIFO into my python script.
> I was successful so far, but the performance is not acceptable: If I start
> the script, it eats 99% of my CPU cycles. Can anyone give me a hint how to
> change this?
> I did it this way:
> 
> fifo=open("/test_fifo", "r")
> while 1:
>         line=fifo.readline()
>         # to stop the repeated printing of " '' " while nothing is in the fifo:
>         if line != '': print line
> 
> Anything better? I'm sure there is, any help is most appreciated! (Google
> didn't help me, nor did the archives of this group...)

Don't know about FIFOs on Linux, but if it's an entity which returns
'' when there's nothing else to read for the moment, you will of course
consume CPU when it has nothing to give you.  Doesn't it block?  Perhaps
investigating the select.select() function would be a good idea, if it
works with a fifo...

-Peter



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jun  3 16:32:58 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 21:32:58 +0100
Subject: Help with coroutine-based state machines?
References: <3ED622CA.4B01E3C1@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054249933.7365.python-list@python.org> <3ED76105.CB8F3ECF@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054317657.5272.python-list@python.org> <3EDC69DF.A46A97D4@hotmail.com> <xLGdnbw6stHmcEGjXTWcoA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3EDD05FA.CDE86800@hotmail.com>

[Terry]

> Some further comments, based on my understandings...

I completely agree with all that you said here. 

In defense of the original statements, I can only say that I
was trying to express the concepts in a way that made sense to me,
and that would hopefully make sense to others. A good example of
this is:

[Alan]
>> 2. The only method by which the "traditional" function call can
>> invoke another "traditional" function/method call is to call it
>> "recursively",

[Terry]
> 'Recursive' usually refers to a function calling itself, either
> directly or via another function.  Using 'recursive' for what are
> normally considered non-recursive calls that create a call chain in
> which each function is unique is a somewhat confusing expansion of its
> meaning.

That is why my original statements were liberally sprinkled with ""s.
I simply don't know how to concisely express the concept of a function
calling another function, resulting in the construction of a new stack
frame. I don't know the reason why we don't have a simple word like
"recursion" to describe this. Indeed, the word "recursion" itself only
implies a function calling itself, there is no concept of stack frames
at all. But I definitely used it inappropriately.

I suppose my description of it was also coloured by reading Christian
Tismer's description of removing the recursive calls to the C eval loop
in the interpreter, which is what happens each time a python function
is executed.

[Alan]
>> 4. There is another space, which I call "Generator space".

[Terry]
> What specifically do you consider to be part of this 'space'?

Whenever I think about this stuff, I find myself thinking more in terms
of what happens in the space, i.e. how the rules change in the space,
rather than objects that live in the space.

But on reading your other points, I see that I may be trying a little
too hard with the "Space" analogy.

> This is more something that does not happen - the usual destruction of
> the stack frame.  'Freezing' implies that something special is done
> that takes time and that would have to be reversed by 'thawing'.
> Generators are efficient because yielding leaves the frame as it so
> execution can be resumed exactly where left off.

You're right, I'm describing something that doesn't happen. I was
trying to verbally describe the concept of the stack frame staying
persistent and undamaged, ready for later re-entry.

[Terry]
> I'm not sure that this is a helpful way to look at the process..  When
> a gen-it.next frame is created or reactivated, it is tacked on to the
> end of the linear frame stack just like any other execution frame.  If
> it calls another function, yet another frame is added.  When it yields
> or returns, it is removed from the chain, just like any other
> function, and control passes back the to calling function, just like
> any other function.  The only differences are that 'removal' !=
> 'deletion' (because the gen object holds a reference to the frame, so
> ref count does *not* go to 0) and 're-addition' != 'set  execution
> pointer to beginning of associated code-object'.

These were the key statements that made me rethink the "space" analogy. The
change of behaviour I was really trying to describe (badly ;-) was really
the change in the behaviour of the top of the stack before, during and
after .next() calls. Seems like the top of stack has protruded into some
other "space" where the rules just aren't same ....... :-)

I think what originally put the "space" analogy into my head was the fact
that, by virtue of introducing a dispatcher function, the resumable stack
frame at the top of the call stack during a .next() call can be made to 
(rapidly) move around between a set of such resumable states. The increased
rapidity (compared to non-generator function calls) was an attribute of 
"generator space". 

And what also put the "space" idea in my mind was the fact that there could
be multiple connected resumable states, just "hanging there in space",
waiting to be resumed. Every running program has a set of zero or more of
these resumable states that the interpreter keeps somewhere special .....

[Alan]
[ Description of an attribute of generator space elided]

[Terry]
> To me, this is unnecessarily confusing.  For some reason, you see and
> present generators as more special than they are.  They are resumable
> functions, and they are resumable mostly because yield does not
> disable.  I don't believe they do anything that cannot be done with
> class methods.  They are just easier to write (usually) and faster to
> execute.

Absolutely. 

The only thing I would add is that I was trying to build a mental
picture of coroutines as well as generators. I don't think I explained
that properly.

> Indeed, I think it possibly useful for understanding generators to
> think of a def statement with yield in the body as being something
> like a syntactically condensed version of a  class statement iterator
> template with standard defs for __init__ and  __iter__ and a
> class-specific .next method that is filled in from the body of the
> def.  Calling a generator function returns an initialized instance
> with the args strored away for later use by the .next method.  Because
> the whole package is a fairly common use case, it can be and now has
> been optimized so the programmer need only write what is specific  and
> the interpreter adds less overhead than normal.

A much better model to use, many thanks.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jun 22 23:22:24 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:22:24 GMT
Subject: License Question
References: <3EF54BDF.46423D0A@easystreet.com> <slrnbfassb.r9.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <8765mxoq8k.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbfcsji.gfb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 22 Jun 2003 20:40:27 +0100, John J. Lee wrote:
> Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> writes:
>> No, you only have to include "[...] the changes made to Python
>> 2.2.3." If you're including the whole thing, but not actually making
>> changes to it, then your "brief summary of the changes" is zero
>> length.
> 
> py2exe and Installer *don't* include the whole of Python.

I've never used them; hopefully someone more qualified can give more
explanation.

> So, does that mean that all py2exe and Installer apps must include a
> note indicating that a) this isn't the whole of Python 2.x.y and b)
> the files taken from the Python distribution have been merged into a
> few files for distribution?

I(ANAL) would read that clause to say so, yes.  I also believe you'll
need to include the Python license with any distribution of Python.

> If so, do people actually do that ATM?

No idea.  I work in environments where executables are simply marked as
such, and where software installs to standard places in the path.

-- 
 \         "Truth would quickly cease to become stranger than fiction, |
  `\                  once we got as used to it."  -- Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From warlock at eskimo.com  Sun Jun 15 16:20:19 2003
From: warlock at eskimo.com (Jim Richardson)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:20:19 -0700
Subject: getting info out of a list.
References: <7tntr-qa9.ln1@grendel.myth> <3EEC32D3.F7C5A3AC@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <311vr-j3n.ln1@grendel.myth>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 01:48:19 -0700,
 Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> Jim Richardson wrote:
> 
>> I know I am missing something fundamental, but I can't figure out
>> what.
>> Any suggestions on where to look? or what I am missing? Thanks.
> 
> You want to flatten the sequence.  A quick search on Google Groups will
> come up with quite a few ways of doing this.
> 

Flatten? hm, I'll look into that too, thanks. 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE+7NUDd90bcYOAWPYRArCOAJ9prGfN44SATRSm/YM1iuoc/OaYNgCfabvp
43+bGbF5ju+lVdZfXT4Fd8I=
=A3rP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
Jim Richardson         http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock

Linux, because eventually, you grow up enough to be trusted with a fork()



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Jun  9 19:09:13 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 19:09:13 -0400
Subject: Installation problem of win32all and wxpython with python 2.2.3
References: <b3e4299c.0306061602.6e8d53a5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <uel2226hy.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

cls at xpnet.com.br (Claudio) writes:

> After uninstalling Python 2.2.2 from a Windows ME machine
> and installing Python 2.2.3, I tried to install win32all-153.exe,
> but it complained that no Python installation was found.
> The installation of wxPythonWIN32-2.4.0.7-Py23.exe also
> reported that it couldn't find a Python installation.
> 
> I tried this in another machine with Windows 2000 and the
> same installation problems occurred.
> 
> Any ideas of what is going on ?

Just to sanity check - you say you installed Python 2.2.3, but then
you are trying to install wxPython and win32all for Python 2.3.  So
unless you also have one of the alpha or beta release of Python 2.3,
it would make sense that the installers can't find it.  Note that
2.2.3 is a maintenance release to the Python 2.2.x series and is not
the same thing as Python 2.3, which is still in beta.

If you want to install on top of your Python 2.2.3 installation, then
you should be downloading the win32all/wxPython versions for Python
2.2, not 2.3.

Hope that helps.

-- David



From alf at fayauffre.org  Thu Jun 26 05:06:49 2003
From: alf at fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:06:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.1.2
References: <slrnbf126d.67u.alf@largo.fayauffre.org> <6q1xxrpcu0.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <slrnbf1996.6la.alf@largo.fayauffre.org> <6qsmq7ntwd.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <slrnbf2opt.h5.alf@largo.fayauffre.org> <3EF9FAD4.7B98ECBC@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbfldt9.5sc.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>

achrist at easystreet.com a ?crit :
> I just tried to use pylint-0.1.2 under Windows NT and hit a few
> problems.  First, setup crashes because there is not pylint.bat file
> in the  pylint-0.1.2\bin directory.  That's easy to fix.  

And indeed it is fixed in CVS, now. Thanks for bringing it to our
attention. 


> Worse problem is 
> 
> 	File "I:\python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\controls.py",
> 	line 16, in ? class wxControlPtr(wxWindowPtr):
> 	NameError: name 'wxWindowPtr' is not defined
> 
> 
> My app uses wxPython, and evidently pylint can't work through
> all the tricks in the wxPython  and wxWindows code.  

Now this will require much more investigation on our side, worsened by
our lack of Windows machines. Could you provide more information on your
setup (version of python, windows, wxWindows, wxPython), and maybe a
short script that will help us reproducing and fixing the problem here?

It would also be easier if you could move this discussion to Logilab's
python-projects mailing list
(http://lists.logilab.org/mailman/listinfo/python-projects). But
otherwise, c.l.py is fine too. 

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations



From jafo-nclug at tummy.com  Sun Jun 22 00:52:48 2003
From: jafo-nclug at tummy.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:52:48 -0600
Subject: ANNOUNCE: JOTWeb 1.11, preview of new web application system.
In-Reply-To: <m3isr1pn6z.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
References: <20030617162210.GB5896@tummy.com> <1055884182.1169.11.camel@emilio> <mailman.1055919212.4742.python-list@python.org> <m3he6nbr78.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <20030619102215.GC23876@tummy.com> <m3el1q9uio.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <mailman.1056066276.16798.python-list@python.org> <m3isr1pn6z.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <20030622045248.GB27578@tummy.com>

On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 11:11:48AM +1000, Dave Cole wrote:
>If you mean developer when you say user then the developer is the
>person designing the layout of the directory tree containing code.py
>so it can be visible to the namespace mechanisms in JOTWeb.  This is
>still building up a namespace.

Ok, sure...  My point being that I think it's too much work in Albatross
to build up the name-space.  I was asked what I didn't like about
Albatross, and that's a large part of it.  I don't like the way the
name-space is built up, at least in the primary examples.

We can get into semantic discussions and say that they're both ways of
building up the name-space, which is to an extent true...  I just am not
that fond of the way that the name-space is set up in Albatross.

>me original point - if you are building an application with more
>functionality than simply poking values into templates then this is a
>minor issue.

It really depends on what sorts of sites you're building.  I would
suspect that most sites have far more simple template pages than they
have complex pages.  I think we're probably going to have to agree to
disagree, though.  I, personally, find the notion of always having to
build up this main code that builds the name-space and render the page
to be similar to manipulating strings in C.  Sure, I can do it, but I
don't want to in most cases...

To me, it's like having to make a program that opens the file and reads
it, in order to have your .html page work with Apache.  Sure, it gives
you more flexibility, but in most cases you just want this thing to
happen.

This seems to me a legacy of Albatross being a CGI, where that CGI is
the main entry point, instead of the HTML being the main entry point.
So, you always have that code there.

>A issue with this (at least in my mind) is that the most obvious use
>of the toolkit has it reaching its tentacles deeper into your
>application.  I can see ways to work around this which means it is not

I don't see that.  In my mind, the JOTWeb approach does some setup and
then hands control off to your presentation and code.  It's like having
Apache calling a CGI.  Apache sets up a bunch of environment values and
changes the directory, etc.  Then it calls into the CGI.

>I firmly believe that for all but the most trivial of applications you
>need to separate the presentation and implementation.  This allows you

Sure, I agree there and think that both Albatross and JOTWeb implement
this separation fairly similarly.

The origin of this thread was "JOTWeb is similar to Albatross, why
didn't you use Albatross?"

>providing the presentation and implementation components.  Whether you
>import your code explicitly, or have it imported for you via JOTWeb
>attributes is no big deal.

It was a big enough deal to me that I decided to try something
different.  That's all it boils down to.  And I very much like the
results...

>But they do need to do something special.  They need to place the code
>into a module so it can be imported by JOTWeb.  When it comes down to

For a Python programmer, putting the code into a module is nothing
special.

>it the only thing that JOTWeb is saving over Albatross is one import
>statement.  I am still maintain that is not a big deal.

According to the example that I created earlier, based on the examples
in the Albatross getting started documentation, it required doing an
import, setting up a function, setting up a context, creating a name in
the context, and then rendering the page.  None of which I can remember
how to do with Albatross.

JOTWeb, on the other hand, requires that you just create a normal Python
module and create a function which returns the current time string.
Something that a Python programmer is going to be hard pressed to
forget...

>If a developer finds the JOTWeb approach a more natural fit for their
>application requirements and development style then that is a win for
>them.  The same goes for Albatross.  I really don't think there is a

You won't get any arguments there from me.  Again, I'm just following up
on what it was about Albatross that made me look elsewhere.

Sean
-- 
 Don't be mean. We don't have to be mean because, remember, no
 matter where you go, there you are.  -- _Buckaroo_Banzai_
Sean Reifschneider, Member of Technical Staff <jafo at tummy.com>
tummy.com, ltd. - Linux Consulting since 1995.  Qmail, Python, SysAdmin




From nushin2 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 23 19:59:28 2003
From: nushin2 at yahoo.com (pen cil)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:59:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: undefined symbol:PyTypeGenericAlloc
Message-ID: <20030623235928.32575.qmail@web80506.mail.yahoo.com>

I am new bee in Python, and when i run a .spy,(spyce)
file, i get:

ImportError: /usr/.../_mysql.so: undefined symbol:
PyType_GenericAlloc

Can any one give me any pointers? Am i missing a
header file?

Regards,
Nushin

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jun 20 10:21:47 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:21:47 +0200
Subject: 1== 1 is False?
In-Reply-To: <20030620160734.2ba89f30.delphiro@zonnet.nl>
References: <20030620160734.2ba89f30.delphiro@zonnet.nl>
Message-ID: <3EF3187B.8010000@ghaering.de>

delphiro wrote:
> [...] If I print out the values I get something like 2.260212 <= 2.260212 and 2.260212 >= 2.260212 is NOT true.
> 
> What's wrong?

Your float values might not be what they look like.

It makes a difference wether you use str() or repr() to convert them to 
strings, for example:

#v+
 >>> 2/3.0
0.66666666666666663
 >>> print 2/3.0
0.666666666667
#v-

-- Gerhard




From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jun  1 00:21:55 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 21:21:55 -0700
Subject: Request for feedback on my first Python program
References: <MPG.194096b51af188bb9896f0@news.hevanet.com>
	 <slrnbdeevn.694.andrew-usenet@athena.jcn.srcf.net>
	 <PDkJf9EB5U2+EAgJ@bamboo.datamage.net>
	 <20030601021106.GA7831@mephisto.ghaering.de> <mailman.1054438441.19004.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ED97F63.4045FBAD@alcyone.com>

Sean Legassick wrote:

> I specifically wanted to point out that
> 
> if X:
>    return True
> else:
>    return False
> 
> is a particularly ugly and surprisingly common redundancy - in many
> languages...

What you write here is not necessarily redundant, provided that X is not
a Boolean.  There may be more compact ways to write it, but that doesn't
mean that the above code is wrong.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I am a gentlemen:  I live by robbing the poor.
\__/  George Bernard Shaw



From michaels at rd.bbc.co.uk  Fri Jun  6 06:30:45 2003
From: michaels at rd.bbc.co.uk (Michael Sparks)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 03:30:45 -0700
Subject: try..yield..finally problem: a proposed solution.
References: <3EDF1FCD.2D107B0@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054811050.10100.python-list@python.org> <3EDF4D53.9010B122@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054822758.13375.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1cbe61a5.0306060230.5160baf8@posting.google.com>

Taking your suggestion, you get a cleaned up version which is
pretty elegant:

def finfunc():
    try:
        try:
            # Risky code, e.g.
            for i in xrange(10):
                t=i/random.randint(0,10)
                yield "data",i
            raise Finality
        except:
            print "Finally"
            raise
    except Finality:
        pass

for v in finfunc():
    print v


However, you find that *if* your code is of the form:

# Form 1
    try:
        ...
        yield
        raise Finality
    except:
        raise

and not of the form:

# Form 2
    try:
        ...
        yield
        raise Finality
    except:
        yield  ### You're going to hate this...
        raise  ### Line A

Then you find this works suggestion works fine, for all exceptions - those
deriving from the Exception class, or otherwise. If you use form 2 however
it breaks horribly.

If you use the original (form 3 for convenience):
# Form 3
    try:
        yield
    except Exception,x:
        yield
        raise x

Then this always works... for exceptions deriving from the Exception
class. (and breaks with any legacy code)

What breaks?

If you use form 2, when you yield, the "current exception" is cleared.

ie when you do the raise on Line A you get a 'exceptions must not be of
NoneType' error. Clearly whereever this current exception is stored, it
either isn't in the python stack frame that's put aside when you yield,
or it's explicitly cleared. This strikes me as either a bug, or an
undocumented "boundary feature".

Minimal test case:

def finfunc():
    try:
        yield 1
        raise Exception
    except:
        yield 2
        raise

for v in finfunc():
    print v

However, in Form 3, we catch and bind the exception to x, so that despite
the current exception being cleared we can still rethrow, but of course
you lose the benefits of the stack trace pointing at the right place...

Form 3 however has the disadvantage that because it doesn't catch all
exceptions, it means that you don't have the same try...finally semantics
that have with Form 1. (Some exceptions - even if they're not stylistically
nice - can still get through and cause breakage.)

Having played with this for a few days, and reading the discussion I think
that the decision to disallow:
    try:
        yield
    finally:
        #stuff

Is a good one - it results in too great a likelyhood of people shooting
themselves in the foot.

However the cleanest alternative:
    try:
        yield
    except:
        #stuff
        raise

Suffers from the downside that if you yield inside the except clause that
the current exception is cleared. (Which strikes me as a bug, since you'd
expect the runtime state in the generator not to changed after a yield.
Also I'd view it as a bug since otherwise I can write the code looking
cleaner in C ;)

Form 1 is the nicest from many perspectives, but Form 3 always works. I'm not
sure of the best way of resolving this, or whether to just use my original
non-try-finally versions instead now :-)



Michael
--
Michael.Sparks at rd.bbc.co.uk
British Broadcasting Corporation, Research and Development
Kingswood Warren, Surrey KT20 6NP

This message (and any attachments) may contain personal views
which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.



From ahaas at airmail.net  Tue Jun 24 17:38:30 2003
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:38:30 -0500
Subject: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Eighth release of PythonCAD now available
Message-ID: <20030624213830.GC1529@artsapartment.org>

I'd like to announce the eighth development release of PythonCAD,
a CAD package for open-source software users. As the name implies,
PythonCAD is written entirely in Python. The goal of this project is
to create a fully scriptable drafting program that will match and eventually
exceed features found in commercial CAD software. PythonCAD is released
under the GNU Public License (GPL).

PythonCAD requires Python 2.2. The interface is GTK 2.0 based,
and uses the PyGTK module for interfacing to GTK. The design of
PythonCAD is built around the idea of separating the interface
from the back end as much as possible. By doing this, it is hoped
that both GNOME and KDE interfaces can be added to PythonCAD through
usage of the appropriate Python module. Addition of other interfaces
will depend on the availability of a Python module for that particular
interface and developer interest and action.

The eighth release features improved preference controls. There is now
a unified preference dialog box for setting drawing preferences, and
more optional settings are now possible. Setting the background color
of the drawing window is now available, and many dimension entity settings
have been added, such as dimension bar color, dimension endpoint marker
size, and dimension text color. The new preference dialog also allows
for the setting of leader line arrow sizes and font color. Another
new feature in this release is a tool for drawing polygons. The polygons
can have any number of sides from three on up.

A number of internal code improvements are included in this release as well.
The intersection code has been reworked again to return entity intersections
as tuples containing float values. This release also has the beginnings
of the rework of internal storage and handling of the user preferences
and options. This work will continue for the next several releases at
least. There are the usual assortment of bug fixes, documentation additions,
and code improvements as well.

The new preference dialog does have a display bug when showing the font
selection widget. I haven't figured out what is wrong, but opted to make
the release with the bug present. A simple workaround is to select another
option to modify so the font display widget gets removed, then reselect
the option with the font display widget. This workaround will usually
make the widget display itself properly. The next release should have
this bug removed.

The mailing list for the development and use of PythonCAD is available.
Visit the following page for information about subscribing and viewing
the mailing list archive:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythoncad

I'd like to again publicly acknowledge and thank the developers and
maintainers of PyChecker for the work they've done in developing this
most useful tool. PyChecker is an effective tool for identifying errors
in Python code, and I've been using it more and more. PyChecker gets a
big recommendation from me and so I say thank you to the people who make
it available.

http://pychecker.sourceforge.net/

Visit the PythonCAD web site for more information about what PythonCAD
does and aims to be:

http://www.pythoncad.org/

Come and join me in developing PythonCAD into a world class drafting
program!

Art Haas
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822




From andrew at acooke.org  Sun Jun  1 13:55:25 2003
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: 01 Jun 2003 13:55:25 -0400
Subject: Defensive programming
In-Reply-To: <2e363c08.0306010923.a08627f@posting.google.com>
References: <hIqp1WAG0c2+Ew1+@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	<mailman.1054463105.27128.python-list@python.org>
	<7xptlxq2yz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<2e363c08.0306010923.a08627f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87k7c5of76.fsf@acooke.org>

pwmiller1 at adelphia.net (Paul Miller) writes:
> What in the world are collision resistant hashes?  It seems to me that
> a certain number of collisions are all but guaranteed for any given
> hash table size, depending on the range of the input.  For example, if
[...]

i suppose the best idea would be to read the papers...

...without doing so, i would guess that they advocate using one-way
hashes (like those used in cryptography) so that it is difficult to
find a text that gives a specific hash.  so even if you know the
hashing algorithm, you cannot find two values that will collide
without trying a number of keys equal to about the square root of the
table size (or, if you need collisions in the actual hash value and
not just the table, to about the square root in the number of possible
hash values).

andrew

-- 
http://www.acooke.org





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jun 19 13:49:32 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 13:49:32 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <pNfIa.206219$g92.4232233@news2.tin.it> <bcshro$3j4$1@panix2.panix.com> <6amIa.113863$pR3.2478359@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bcst3c$s9r$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <6amIa.113863$pR3.2478359 at news1.tin.it>,
Alex Martelli  <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>> In article <pNfIa.206219$g92.4232233 at news2.tin.it>,
>> Alex Martelli  <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:
>>>
>>>In Python one generally identifies (just as informally) a container as
>>>"an object which has a length" (using "length", perhaps a suboptimal
>>>choice of wording, to mean "number of items currently contained") and
>>>simultaneously express both 'c is a container' and 'that container is
>>>not empty' by
>>>
>>>    assert len(c)
>> 
>> Hmmmm....  I would only do that for a sequence.  From my POV, classes,
>
>I can't believe one could find ANY sensible objection to "doing that"
>(checking len(c)) for a dictionary nor for a set.  Either your nitpick
>is very poorly expressed (something that should be particularly carefully
>avoided when nitpicking) or it just makes no sense whatsoever to me.

My nitpick was actually that your use of "container" was too specific
for Python (see below); my comment about len(c) was just a aside about my
use of Python, with an implied comment that len(c) doesn't work directly
with classes and modules.

You're correct, of course, that there is no intrinsic objection to using
len(c) with a dict/set.

>> class instances (even those not implementing any special methods), and
>> modules all serve as containers for the purpose of determining what an
>> appropriate "container object" is for any particular program.
>
>You may indeed choose to call a class (&c) "a container", because it
>does contain some things, just as some (e.g.) C programmer might choose
>to call a struct "a container" for the same reason.  It's simply not
>the common definition used in computer science (cfr. for example
>http://www.research.att.com/sw/tools/cdt/ ,
>http://www.xemacs.org/Documentation/packages/html/elib_3.html , &c).

That's not why I say that.  I say it because classes and modules are in
many ways thin wrappers around dicts, and in some cases the syntactic
advantages of classes/modules make them more appropriate containers, even
though one is functionally using them as dicts.  Consider the standard
advice to use modules as singletons, for example.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From support at bigipub.com  Wed Jun 11 10:50:55 2003
From: support at bigipub.com (robbyT)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 07:50:55 -0700
Subject: error in configure script with Python
References: <37aad647.0305221152.3f1b9bc@posting.google.com> <6d802d4a.0305290105.7767c5a@posting.google.com> <37aad647.0306051722.36c670c3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2573d496.0306110650.5007f01a@posting.google.com>

plb at linuxmail.org (plb) wrote in message news:<37aad647.0306051722.36c670c3 at posting.google.com>...
> akalus at gmx.de (akalus) wrote in message news:<6d802d4a.0305290105.7767c5a at posting.google.com>...
> > plb at linuxmail.org (plb) wrote in message news:<37aad647.0305221152.3f1b9bc at posting.google.com>...
> > > Hello, 
> > > 
> > > I'm installing a package (fluxspace for fluxbox wm) and it requires
> > > Python.  I have Python installed.  When I run the configure script I
> > > get these errors at the end.
> > > 
> > > >checking for python... /usr/bin/python 
> > > >checking for python version... 2.2 
> > > >checking for python platform... linux2 
> > > >checking for python >= 2.2... okay 
> > > >checking for headers required to compile python extensions... found 
> > > >checking for python-config... no 
> > > >checking for Py_Initialize in -lpython2.2... no 
> > > >checking for Py_Finalize in -lpython2.2... no 
> > > >checking for Py_IsInitialized in -lpython2.2... no 
> > > >configure: error: Unable to determine proper Python link flags. 
> > > 
> > > I'm not sure what I need to do to fix this as I do not know much about
> > > Python? Any ideas?
> > > 
> > > Thank you,
> > > plb
> > 
> > I am having exactly the same problem. Did you find any solution?
> > 
> > Thanks in advance
> > Andre
> 
> 
> No never did.  Maybe someday I'll try and figure it out...

I'm getting the same error message, no idea what the probem is... :(



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sun Jun 22 19:44:41 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:44:41 GMT
Subject: xrange
References: <rwkJa.1019010$OV.1115623@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <JbrJa.7647$Kg7.4897@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

"Bryan" <belred1 at yahoo.com>
> in 2.3, what is the best way to write this:
>
> for i in xrange(100): print 'Hello'
>
> i used timeit and it seems that repeat is about 10% faster.
>
> timeit -s"from itertools import repeat" "for i in repeat(None, 100): pass"
> 100000 loops, best of 3: 10.4 usec per loop
>
> timeit "for i in xrange(100): pass"
> 100000 loops, best of 3: 11.6 usec per loop
>
> will xrange be obsoleted?  what is the best idiom for repeating a loop n
> times in 2.3 now where you don't care about the index value?


What is "best" is a value judgement and varies with the circumstances.
When using Python, following Guido's examples and advice usually
leads to good results.

In general, range(n) is a simple consistent way to go.  GvR uses this
is most of his code.

When n gets large enough and/or space becomes enough of an issue
xrange(n) is generally the next best choice.  The python library is
full of cases where xrange is used in an inner loop.  Personally, I use
xrange for almost everything.

itertools.repeat(obj, n) was not intended to be "second or third way to
do it".  It was included in the module to meet a very specific need for
supplying repeated arguments to imap() and ifilter():

   cubeiter = imap(operator.pow, count(), repeat(3))

That being said, it does do slightly less work than xrange() because it
doesn't have to create a new object on every iteration.  So, it can be
used instead of xrange(n) or [None]*n in situtations where:

  1.  An interation index is not needed
  2.  Speed and space are so important that a you can tolerate a less than
       beautiful construct like:  for _ in itertools.repeat(None, n)

Such a case arises in the code for timeit.py.  The beauty and simplicity
of range(n) or xrange(n) is secondary in importance to a key operational
goal for the timer to produce high quality timings which depend on
low timer overhead and minimal impact on memory consumption.
Accordingly, GvR used itertools.repeat(n) in that one situation.  AFAICT,
he has never used it elsewhere.  That should provide good guidance for
you to do the same

For Py3.0, xrange() will likely go away.  Right now, it meets an important
need for an iteration counter that doesn't eat memory for breakfast.  For
Py3.0, range() will probably return a fast, memory efficient iterator.


Raymond Hettinger





From rnd at onego.ru  Fri Jun 27 00:02:05 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:02:05 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <MV1++kKkXcxR092yn@gnosis.cx>         
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306270757220.2213-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:

>mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) wrote previously:
>|   And there isn't much to XML.  There's a first line of
>|version information... Then there's
>|the XML object, of the form
>|        <bracket metadata> contents </bracket>
>|Add a shortcut <bracket metatdata />
>
>Add entity escaping
>Add namespace declarations
>Add namespace modified tags
>Add namespace modified attributes
>Add CDATA sections
>Add Processing Instructions
>Add Character entities
>Add Numeric entities
>Add DTD declarations
>Add infoset modification
>Add validation against DTDs
>Add comments
>Add whitespace normalization
>Add specification of ignorable and non-ignorable whitespace
>
>... and then you're almost there.

...and the Most Popular Piece of Software on Earth surely uses them all. And
nobody knows if It uses them standard way, because It Itself is a standard (in
many eyes). So, there is a special vendor specific set of the above. (errors
aren't intended, are they?)

>What could be easier?
>
>--
>Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
>of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
>underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
>property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.
>
>

Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From ed at membled.com  Sat Jun  7 16:41:01 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 07 Jun 2003 21:41:01 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0306070837.789f2a9f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <l13cilipsy.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:

>I like lambdas as they are, the mistake (see Oscon Python regrets)
>was to make 'print' a statement and not an expression.

I kinda agree... if print, and assert, and perhaps raise and a few
other things were expressions rather than statements, the lambda
restrictions would not seem so harsh.  The decision to allow only
expressions in lambda is not that bad in itself, and the decision to
make assert a statement is also reasonable on its own, but the two
decisions interact badly.

The remaining things which must be statements and not expressions,
most particularly assignment, would then seem more logical.  (After
all, assignment binds a new name in the current scope, and scope
inside a function body won't affect what is outside, so assignment in
an anonymous function is pointless... IMHO this is a *much* more
convincing rationale than harping on about expressions versus
statements.)

A couple more anomalous cases could be cleaned up by adding dict.set
as a counterpart of dict.setdefault; since neither operation rebinds
names they can both be implemented as expressions, and it seems odd to
have one but not the other.

>I also agree with you on the conditional operator which would be
>especially useful in lambdas.

A conditional operator would be nice, but contravene the important
rule that statements (if, return, etc) can skip over blocks of code
and control what is evaluated, while expressions cannot.  And here I
am, quoting properties of the current language version as though they
were self-evidently a good thing.  It is an easy habit to pick up.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Thu Jun  5 17:31:23 2003
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:31:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Efficient data flow between orthogonal C extensions?
References: <slrnbdsl66.21h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no> <87el29rpmv.fsf@smtp.gsi.de> <slrnbdubsl.32h.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>  <87znkwwmbg.fsf@smtp.gsi.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbdvdlb.dfi.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <87znkwwmbg.fsf at smtp.gsi.de>, Pierre Schnizer wrote:
[snip]
>Perhaps I should have been more explicit. If I get your viewpoint correctly, I
>can answer: SWIG generally can do the job you described above. 
[snip]
>What I wanted to stress and what misled you, (I guess), was that SWIG does
>not help you to automatise writting a C callback, which will call the python
>function.

Ah. I see.

>(At least I do not know about ...).  For example f2py can parses the
>code of a Fortran ODE solver and will automatically generate a wrapper and a
>callback wrapper. Thus one can use it to integrate a function written in
>Python.

Yes, that does sound very useful...

>In the SWIG case you have to write the callback wrapper by hand. But
>as you want to use C Functions in both cases that is not too much of
>concern for you.

Well -- I do want to be able to write components both in C and Python,
so it is relevant.

>Perhaps a example. Consider the gsl root solver (partly taken from 
>http://pygsl.sf.net).
[snip]
>Here it is interesting to be able to integrate a python function.
>Therefore a C wrapper was written. This function is called by the gsl roots
>solver.

I see.

><snip>
> double 
> PyGSL_function_wrap(double x, void * params)
> {
[snip]
> }
><snip>
>
>On the entry side,

Sorry if I'm slow here -- but where would the 'entry side' be?

>there is an other wrapper which puts the callback and its arguments
>in the p struct and sets PyGSL_function_wrap as callback for the root
>solver. 

Can the PyGSL_function_wrap be used in place of a plain C function
(passed from Python)? In that case -- how does the solver know when to
pass the params and when not to etc.?

>I hope that cleared the point a bit what I wanted to express.

Yes, I think so -- at least, I think I get the general point, but I'm
not 100% clear on the detail... Maybe I should read the GSL code :]

Anyway, the case without using Python-implemented callbacks seems
quite clear. If SWIG does indeed do all the work, there really
shouldn't be much of a problem, I guess :)

>Regards
>	Pierre

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland                "In this house we obey the laws of
http://hetland.org                 thermodynamics!"    Homer Simpson



From xpm4senn001 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jun 18 19:52:18 2003
From: xpm4senn001 at sneakemail.com (John Fitzsimons)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:52:18 +1000
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
Message-ID: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com>

Hi,

I am totally new to python and want to do a few things and learn about
it at the same time, so....

(A) Is there a better newsgroup than this one for "newbies" ? If so
what is it please ?

(B) I am wanting to sort words (or is that strings ?) into a list from
a clipboard and/or file input and/or....

(C) To sort out the list of "unique" words/strings.

Input like ;

A Freeware Site - Reach Freeware
  http://reachfreeware.itgo.com/
  Keywords: Freeware Reach Personal Toolbar Folder
stuff   http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Business/reuters20021130_26.html
          http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/?form=medium
 http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq
www.fourmilab.ch/annoyance-filter/

Output like ;

A 
Folder
Freeware
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Business/reuters20021130_26.html
http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/faq
http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/?form=medium
http://reachfreeware.itgo.com/
Keywords:
Personal
Reach
Site
stuff
Toolbar
www.fourmilab.ch/annoyance-filter/

(D) Perhaps there is a "grep" python script that finds all http, ftp,
www (unique ?) address' in a text file ?

Can anyone here suggest the correct code for any of the above and/or
suggest where I might download a working script (program ?) to do this
please ? On a windows '98 platform.

Regards, John.




From theller at python.net  Tue Jun 17 10:51:46 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:51:46 +0200
Subject: swig and init_module or initmodule, windows XP
References: <bcn8cd$efu$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <smq8kb99.fsf@python.net>

"Jung-Paz" <jung-paz at t-online.de> writes:

> Hi !
>
> I am new to Python and Swig ...
>
> I am using Python2.2, mingw and Swig 1.3.19, Windows XP, and trying to build
> a module using the distutils.
> Basically it works, but in the final linking step I get an undefined
> reference to "initexample" (the module name is example).
> This sounds reasonable, as the file example_wrap.c, as produced by swig,
> contains only a function "init_example.c".
> If I replace "init_example" by hand with "initexample" and compile and link
> by hand, everything is fine, and I get a loadable and usable module.
> Any idea how I could make swig to produce other function names, or whatever
> could help ?

Sounds like you should name your extension _example.pyd instead of
example.pyd...

Thomas



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Jun  5 09:42:41 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:42:41 -0500
Subject: Python IO performance?
In-Reply-To: <20030605113023.N15841@bullseye.apana.org.au>
References: <m33civ37b2.fsf@localhost.localdomain> <bbad44$2nv$1@panix1.panix.com> <bbln0q$2vl$0@216.39.172.122> <20030605113023.N15841@bullseye.apana.org.au>
Message-ID: <20030605134241.GI8136@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 12:10:47PM +1000, Andrew MacIntyre wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Jun 2003, Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> > >* Perl uses OS-specific FILE* hacks for speed; Python mostly sticks with
> > >simple, portable calls.
> > IMO if the latter does not result in max disk thoughput for simple IO, there is
> > room for improvement in the OS event/scheduling/dispatching and/or the interface(s) to it.
> > Not that that helps Python per se ;-/
> 
> It is a not uncommon misconception that OS library routines are highly
> optimised for performance.  OS suppliers, particularly those supporting
> multiple archictectures, frequently prefer portability over performance.
> Even within an architecture, say i386, maximising performance requires
> CPU specific tricks, and in a binary distribution some reasonable
> compromise must be reached to perform satisfactorily across a range of
> hardware.
> 
> So application developers who depend on maximising some aspect of system
> performance need to take matters into their own hands, as Perl does.

.. another reason is that the OS I/O library must perform correctly
under the range of circumstances described by whatever standard they
conform to (eg POSIX, SuS, win32) under various circumstances
(multithreading, binary-level structure compatibility),
but the program-specific I/O library generally has fewer such
requirements.

Jeff




From painlord2k at yahoo.it  Fri Jun 20 09:49:33 2003
From: painlord2k at yahoo.it (Mirco Romanato)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:49:33 GMT
Subject: Tiger Hash Function in Python
References: <y2lIa.104936$lK4.2967901@twister1.libero.it> <bct5oh$6k4$1@panix1.panix.com> <8CzIa.104097$Ny5.3014903@twister2.libero.it> <S8CIa.327$Qc3.42387645@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <NhEIa.107918$lK4.3032880@twister1.libero.it>

"Van Gale" <news at exultants.org> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:S8CIa.327$Qc3.42387645 at newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...

> Anyway, this Python package has Tiger hash so it might work for you:
> http://mhash.sourceforge.net/

I tried it before I send my message.
They removed the DLLs for Win, and tell to use Cygwin, but I was
unable to compile them.

Any one is able to compile them on windows with cygwin?

I think I setted right all the needed environmental variables.

Mirco




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Jun  1 10:47:43 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 15:47:43 +0100
Subject: PyModule for ID3 v2.2+
References: <2147483647.1054415157@[192.168.0.3]> <mailman.1054415749.11654.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EDA120F.ADEBBDAA@hotmail.com>

Alexander Winston wrote:

> I beg of you _not_ to include write support for the ID3v2 "standard."

I'd be interested to know while you feel this way. ID3v2 seems like such
convenient way to inline application-related data in an MP3 file, for example.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jun  8 12:58:46 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 12:58:46 -0400
Subject: program path
References: <fyvEa.17336$pK2.23786@news.indigo.ie> <3EE28ABC.7D6DB511@engcorp.com> <D0wEa.17343$pK2.23880@news.indigo.ie> <3EE2AD6E.933C6ED7@engcorp.com> <mailman.1055048954.23011.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE36B46.343D8774@engcorp.com>

Steven Taschuk wrote:
> 
> Quoth Peter Hansen:
>   [...]
> > scriptPath = os.path.abspath(sys.argv[0])
> 
> On machines where sys.argv[0] isn't the absolute path already,
> might it not be the name-as-invoked, and thus ought to be resolved
> by scanning the $PATH (or equivalent) rather than as relative to
> the current directory?

I'm not certain.  Under Win9x, you likely can't invoke the 
script unless you specify the full path (even using the file
assocation probably translates to the same thing).  Under
Linux, experimentation suggests to me that if you invoke
it from the PATH, sys.argv[0] contains the full path already
and the abspath() call is redundant, if harmless.

Can anyone with access to a WinNT/XP machine that can invoke
scripts without explicitly specifying "python.exe" in the 
command line add to this?

-Peter



From jack at performancedrivers.com  Tue Jun  3 11:53:47 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:53:47 -0400
Subject: "for line in fd" twice
In-Reply-To: <bbiej5$9uiab$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>; from guettler@thomas-guettler.de on Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 05:24:16PM +0200
References: <bbiej5$9uiab$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20030603115347.D1163@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 05:24:16PM +0200, Thomas G?ttler wrote:
> the following does not work:
> 
> fd=open(file)
> for line in fd:
>     if line.startswith("mymark"):
>         break
> for line in fd:
>     #Read lines after "mymark"
> 
> It works with the old way:
> 
> while 1:
>     line=fd.readline()
>     if not line:
>         break

The part
for (line) in fd:
  
will make a temporary list of all the lines in fd before it starts iterating.
so by the time you get to the second for() loop the file has been exhausted.

-jack




From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Jun  5 18:44:27 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:44:27 -0600
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.3999999999 ?
References: <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com> <mailman.1053017062.18647.python-list@python.org> <895e4ce2.0306021736.13c657a5@posting.google.com> <slrnbdo1i8.a95.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3EDC1074.CA05EC23@alcyone.com> <u60tdvcau9j1ftu7rh05bv4leioate5afn@4ax.com> <bbm8aq$ld3$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3EDEA84A.389C1AC5@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <bbogsb$87i$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Erik Max Francis:
> There are all sorts of alternative definitions of the reals which have
> differing properties than the reals we've all come to know and love.
> They usually fall under the general category of "non-standard analysis."

Sadly, beyond a bachelor's in math I have only a lay knowledge of
math, which luckily includes Ian Stewart's excellent "The Problems of
Mathematics.", p74 in my copy

  The usual list of axioms for the real numbers is second order; and it has
  long been known that it has a unique model, the usual real numbers R.
  This is satisfyingly tidy.  However, it turns out that if the axioms are
  weakened, to comprise only the first-order properties of R, then other
  models exist, including some that violdate (2) above.  Let R* be such
  a model.  The upshot is a theory of non-standard analysis, initiated by
  Abraham Robinson in about 1961.  In non-standard analysis there are
  actual infinities, actual infinitesimals.  They are constants, not
Cauchy-style
  variables....

The (2) is
  if x < 1/n for all integers n then x = 0

This is in agreement with the statement you and Moshe mentioned.
Reals are reals, and only reals.  There are models related to reals
but which are not reals, and so while it may be that in some models
0.99999..... != 1, that isn't the case for R.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Mon Jun  2 14:45:24 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 02 Jun 2003 19:45:24 +0100
Subject: repr on a string
References: <pan.2003.06.01.20.16.40.747684@yahoo.com> <yfs1xydzcgx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <pan.2003.06.02.00.08.28.118677@yahoo.com> <yfswug4yeka.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <fYWdneeTM_6N5UajXTWcoQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <yfsptlwxqrf.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

> "Alexander Schmolck" <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:yfswug4yeka.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk...
> > David Shochat <shochatd at yahoo.com> writes:
> > > for dir in sys.path:
> > >     if string.find(os.path.abspath(dir), 'PyTools') != -1:
> > >         print 'removing', repr(dir)
> > >         sys.path.remove(dir)
> > >
> > > In the 3d line, why does he not just say:
> > >   print 'removing', dir
> 
> > My guess would be: mainly to put the name into (the right; ' or ")
> quotation
> > marks and make sure that funny characters are escaped. I think using
> `str`
> > here would be equally OK, although then the user wouldn't be able to
> tell
> > apart e.g. "that filename " from "that filename".
> 
> Instead of asking or guessing, one can try things out in the
> interactive interpreter:

Great -- what command do I have to type into my interactive interpreter to
divine programmer intent?

'as



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sat Jun 28 13:45:39 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:45:39 -0400
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056731821.18681.python-list@python.org>
 <aBb/+ks/KjnV089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <DRd/+kKkXMnD092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) wrote previously:
|>|   And there isn't much to XML.  There's a first line of
|>|version information... Then there's
|[ ... ]
|>Add entity escaping
|>Add namespace declarations
|>Add namespace modified tags
|>Add namespace modified attributes
|[ ... ]

I do think a lot of people miss the difference in infoset augmentation
during validating and non-validating parsing.  Since DTDs are part of
the XML spec, you simply cannot ignore this (except by subsetting actual
XML).  I give an example at:

  http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-matters26.html

Btw. The linked article discusses RELAX NG's parsimony here.  Even
though James Clark emailed me and objected to my characterization of
RELAX NG as still augmenting just-a-little-bit, I stand by that remark.

Entities in DTDs (including internal subsets; were those in the addendum
list?) are similar in this general way.

Yours, David...

P.S. The moral I actually take from the thread is that it is possible to
take a small subset of actual XML, and call that simple (because it is).
But it is a massive mental effort to understand every weird corner case
in the XML spec.

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.




From mmower at novissio.com  Sat Jun 28 12:51:37 2003
From: mmower at novissio.com (Matt Mower)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:51:37 +0100
Subject: Have I broken my installation?
References: <b8crfvcsd8pit555p24rrc19f05a9578pb@4ax.com> <m3d6gyjizz.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <2verfvseu4k82h66g3l2co8mhnc2pe334p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <01hrfv8e7j4c7qi2gtcitlfurd749cg7su@4ax.com>

Hmmm....

Looks like I spoke a little too soon.

The minimal test script:

	from xml.dom.minidom import parse, Document
	doc = parse( "...some file..." )
	print doc

works, spitting out a reference to a minidom instance.

However the CGI script which is, in a roundabout way, doing exactly
the same thing still comes up with the error:

|Traceback (most recent call last):
|  File "/mnt/hugedisk/share/MattsMovableType/stb/stb.cgi", line 90, in ?
|    documentElem = parse( rssFile )
|  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/minidom.py", line 962, in parse
|    return _doparse(pulldom.parse, args, kwargs)
|  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/minidom.py", line 953, in _doparse
|    events = apply(func, args, kwargs)
|  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/dom/pulldom.py", line 328, in parse
|    parser = xml.sax.make_parser()
|  File "/opt/python/lib/python2.2/xml/sax/__init__.py", line 93, in make_parser
|    raise SAXReaderNotAvailable("No parsers found", None)
|xml.sax._exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable: No parsers found

Since the web server is running in the context of user 'nobody' I
tried running my test script as nobody and sure enough I got the same
error.  I don't understand why though.

Nothing in the environment or access to the file system suggests to me
why it works as for my account but not for the nobody account.

I'm puzzled...

Regards,

Matt

---
Systems Engineer, Hipbone(EMEA) Ltd.
3000 Hillswood drive, Chertsey, Surrey, KT16 0RS
Tel: 44-1932-895902  Mob: 44-7980-237-380



From essai1 at mci.local  Tue Jun  3 16:49:21 2003
From: essai1 at mci.local (News M Claveau /Hamster-P)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:49:21 +0200
Subject: Python2.3 and win32all wmi problems.
References: <9c9ad528.0306031121.66b71309@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbj1pd$2n0$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

And with this next syntax ?    (but i have only P.2.2.2...)

    c =
win32com.client.GetObject(r"winmgmts:{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\.\ro
ot\cimv2")

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau
site :   http://mclaveau.com





From saspurss at libero.it  Fri Jun  6 15:01:09 2003
From: saspurss at libero.it (Panther)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 19:01:09 GMT
Subject: Why it doesn't go ????
References: <pan.2003.06.06.02.56.12.823798@libero.it> <phl5r-0c3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <pan.2003.06.06.13.33.15.591451@libero.it> <mailman.1054906633.21085.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.06.06.19.06.15.579416@libero.it>

Because I have an error if I import ping.py.



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jun 27 22:55:08 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:55:08 -0500
Subject: pygresql
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.06.28.00.10.45.319093@grex_nospam_.org>
References: <pan.2003.06.28.00.10.45.319093@grex_nospam_.org>
Message-ID: <16125.908.164609.321473@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    trewornan> I'm trying to install pygresql on mandrake 9.1 but when I try
    trewornan> "python setup.py build" I get the error - "cannot find
    trewornan> /usr/lib/python2.2/config/makefile"

    trewornan> I don't have this makefile - is it because I didn't build
    trewornan> python myself (added at installation).

There's probably a python-devel RPM in the distribution which you need to
install.

Skip
Got spam? http://spambayes.sf.net/




From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Jun  2 21:54:32 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 13:54:32 +1200
Subject: Python get's a mention on University Challenge
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1054587904.7131.python-list@python.org>
References: <2vNCa.733$Bp6.118@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <3edbaa7a$0$49106$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <VYNCa.66$5L6.15@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk> <mailman.1054587904.7131.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bbgttl$8r4b1$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Phil Thompson wrote:
> Maybe prayer should be added as a transport to Twisted?

Should be simple enough:

def pray(text):
   open("/dev/god", "w").write(text)

(Implementation of the /dev/god kernel module left as
an exercise for the reader.)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From francois at iecholden.com  Fri Jun 20 15:08:41 2003
From: francois at iecholden.com (Francois Meehan)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:08:41 -0400
Subject: Using ftplib to upload a file to a server, solved
In-Reply-To: <200306192221.28788.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>
References: <bcsfef$oid$1@main.gmane.org> <200306192221.28788.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bcvm3h$69h$1@main.gmane.org>

Thanks all for your help, got it to work, I am getting addicted...






From quadric at primenet.com  Sun Jun  1 21:50:47 2003
From: quadric at primenet.com (quadric at primenet.com)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 18:50:47 -0700
Subject: PyRun_SimpleFile  crashing under Windows 2000
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030601183630.02afd150@pop3.norton.antivirus>

Hi,

I have embedded Python in an application and am wanting to run a startup script
when the application starts.  I am running under Windows 2000 Pro, 
compiling with MSVC 6.0
and using same compiler switches and libraries as the python22.dll was 
created with.

Python initializes fine and I can run simple strings and get results back.

When I execute the following code,  I crash with a fatal "memory can't be 
written" error.

Here is the code:


int PythonStartup()
{
	int ret = 0;

	char * startup = Py_GETENV("PYTHONSTARTUP");

	if (startup != NULL && startup[0] != '\0')
	{
		FILE *fp = fopen(startup, "r");
	
		if (fp != NULL)
		{
			(void) PyRun_SimpleFile(fp, startup);
			PyErr_Clear();
			fclose(fp);
		}
		else
		{
			fprintf(stdout , "Can't open %s. Critical macro support data not 
available!\n" , startup );
		}
	}
	else
	{
		fprintf(stdout , "PYTHONSTARTUP is not specified. Critical macro support 
data not available!\n" );
	}

     return ret;
}




The PYTHONSTARTUP variable contains a fully qualified path and file similar 
to  => 
f:\some_directory\some_sub_directory\another_sub_directory\file_name.py.

Also, the script file is a text file, not byte compiled and contains some 
simple import statements etc....


I have run the app thru the debugger and determined that the failure is at 
the      PyRun_SimpleFile(fp, startup);    call but have
not attempted to debug into the python source to see where it fails.

I was hoping someone on the list has had this problem and could save me 
some grief.

Anyone had this same problem?  If so, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.















From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Jun  9 19:50:45 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 00:50:45 +0100
Subject: ANN: Set-like methods on dicts
References: <mailman.1055182553.10002.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <874r2y7qui.fsf@pobox.com>

Beni Cherniavsky <cben at techunix.technion.ac.il> writes:

> Dictionary users of the Python world, unite (or intersect)!
[...]

They already did:

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3b1/whatsnew/node2.html


John



From aleax at aleax.it  Thu Jun 19 13:01:16 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 17:01:16 GMT
Subject: sum(strings)
References: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <Xns939FAB54E7C9Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <w%lIa.209490$g92.4306887@news2.tin.it>

Duncan Booth wrote:
   ...
> I can see that for adding strings you would be better to use str.join, but
> the explicit type check seems to be very un-pythonic.

Practicality beats purity.

> I would have thought a simpler implementation would be:
> 
> def sum(seq, start=sentinal):
>     iterable = iter(seq)
>     if start is sentinal:
>         result = iterable.next()
>     else:
>         result = start
> 
>     for item in iterable:
>         result += item
>     return result
> 
> which has the advantage that you can sum anything addable without
> specifying a start value.

...and the HUGE practical disadvantage of strongly encouraging
a horde of newbies to rush into the worst performance trap that
is waiting for them in Python -- putting a lot of small strings
together into a big string with +=.  This is known as an
"attractive nuisance" and may make you liable for the resulting
damages;-).  No, if sum accepted a sequence of strings it WOULD
have to delegate to ''.join in that case -- and I just couldn't
find an elegant and totally general way to do that.  Thus, using
sum as yet another occasion to remind newbies about the wonders
of ''.join was deemed to be the best practical solution.


Alex




From member31704 at dbforums.com  Mon Jun 23 11:29:25 2003
From: member31704 at dbforums.com (idriss)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:29:25 +0000
Subject: tkinter urgent help request
Message-ID: <3033499.1056382165@dbforums.com>

i want to scroll one frame's or canvas 's whole content (it will contain
other subframes and subframes will contain bitmaps) I couldn't find
where is my fault.  if you can find my fault or have some example codes
like this please help me thanks from now.....



from Tkinter import *
import Image


root = Tk()

mainFrame = Canvas(root,width=400, height=420, bg='gray50',relief=RIDGE)
mainFrame.pack(fill=BOTH,expand=1)

scroll = Scrollbar(mainFrame)
scroll.pack(side=RIGHT,expand=1,fill=BOTH)

mainFrame.configure(xscrollcommand=scroll.set)


subFrame = Frame(mainFrame,width=200,height=300)
subFrame.pack(expand=1,fill=BOTH)

picNo =0
img = []

# two picture placed side by side
imgfile           = 'c:\untitled.bmp'
lbl               = Label(subFrame, bd=0)
lbl.place(anchor=NW)
masterImg         = Image.open(imgfile)
masterImg.thumbnail((500, 500))
img.append(ImageTk.PhotoImage(masterImg))
lbl['image'] = img[picNo]
picNo             = picNo + 1
lbl.pack(side=LEFT)

imgfile           = 'c:\untitled.bmp'
lbl          = Label(subFrame, bd=0)
lbl.place(anchor=NW)
masterImg         = Image.open(imgfile)
masterImg.thumbnail((500, 500))
img.append(ImageTk.PhotoImage(masterImg))
lbl['image'] = img[picNo]
picNo             = picNo + 1
lbl.pack(side=LEFT)
root.mainloop()

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From Ifman1 at comcast.net  Mon Jun  9 17:09:31 2003
From: Ifman1 at comcast.net (Ifman1)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:09:31 -0400
Subject: interpreted
References: <M6icneVATOpIWn6jXTWcrg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <5yednTf1NoAdanmjXTWcpQ@comcast.com>

Thanks....

what do you mean "anonymous coward"???







From maxdelanis at magic.fr  Wed Jun  4 12:56:01 2003
From: maxdelanis at magic.fr (Maxime Delanis)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 09:56:01 -0700
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <40457fef.0306040856.5187dbca@posting.google.com>

PupppyWizzard at glay.org (Pupppy Wizzard) wrote in message news:<8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi. I am an old school programmer looking to modernize my skill set. I
> want to focus on one new language. Should I choose:
> 
> VB
> VB.net
> C#
> C++
> Python
> Smalltalk
> J#
> JScript.net
> or Java?

Maybe you should have more a paradigm oriented approach rather than a
language oriented approach...?
for object orientation: Eiffel is a must, Java, Smalltalk are of
interest too..
 I can't tell about C#
for script languages: Python (I suppose, though I don't know it
myself)
for Generic programming: ADA (though Eiffel and C++ use it, too)
for functional programming: Haskell seems a very good language on that
regards
for multi-paradigm language: C++ (it may be a little bit confusing to
start with that one...)

Now if you want to make a living with the new language you want to
learn,
it looks like Java and C++ are dominant on the market....

IMHO, the best language I know of, is Eiffel, when it comes to
powerfulness, simplicity, and a strong methodological approach. It is
most useful to know it, even if you end up coding in something else,
it being Assembler, C or C++ (most likely, to earn a living :-)

regards
Maxime



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jun  3 23:25:51 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 20:25:51 -0700
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054662726.12651.python-list@python.org>
	 <3EDCE9C2.5020805@nospam.com> <bbipv6$9hs$1@ginger.mathworks.com>
	 <l165nmn9np.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
	 <mailman.1054679046.1221.python-list@python.org> <n7S3+kKkXw3D092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1054683202.25497.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EDD66BF.4667C7BA@alcyone.com>

Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:

> ...especially since I'll now probably feel compelled to do that in
> code.

Now who's the sick puppy>

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ My reputation grows with every failure.
\__/  George Bernard Shaw



From google-20030624 at bitfurnace.com  Tue Jun 24 15:57:09 2003
From: google-20030624 at bitfurnace.com (Damien Morton)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 12:57:09 -0700
Subject: python hash function
Message-ID: <5050a341.0306241157.65e08b84@posting.google.com>

Ive been doing some investigation of python hashtables and the hash
function used in Python.

It turns out, that when running pystone.py, as much time is spent in
string_hash() as is spent in lookdict_string(). If you look at
python's hash function, shown below, you can get an idea why - a
multiply is used for every character in the string.

static long
string_hash1(register char *p, int size)
{
	register int len;
	register long x;

	len = size;
	x = *p << 7;
	while (--len >= 0)
		x = (100003*x) ^ *p++;
	x ^= size;
	return x;
}

Looking around the web I found the following hash function, which is
much faster, and seems to distribute better than the python hash
function.

static long
string_hash3(register char *p, register int size)
{
	register long x;
	register char c;

	x = 0xd2d84a61;
        while (c = *p++)
		x ^= ( (x<<7) + c + (x>>5) );
	return x;
}

I also came up with a hash function of my own, which seems to
distribute near-perfectly (in the sense of being comparable to
assigning, as hashes, random numbers to unique strings) and be faster
yet (at least, on my P4 box).

static long
string_hash6(register unsigned short *p, int size)
{
	register short s;
	register unsigned long x = 0;

        if (size == 0) return 0;

	len = (size+1) >> 1;
	while (len--) {
		x += (x>>14) + (*p++ * 0xd2d84a61);
		}
	x += (x>>14) + (size*0xd2d84a61);
	
	return x;
}

Ive tested these functions by hashing a large set of strings generated
by instrumenting the python interpeter to emit a string every time a
string is added to a dictionary. These strings are hashed and thrown
into the buckets of various sized tables. I then calculate sigma
statistics (sum((observed-expected)^2)/(N-1)) for the number of items
in the buckets of those tables.

Im not sure what other tests to try out. Im hoping that someone on
c.l.py has some experience in testing hash functions, and can suggest
some additional tests and/or tweaks.



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Jun 30 13:13:58 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:13:58 -0400
Subject: To get all property of a class?
In-Reply-To: <jkWLa.163881$pR3.3743329@news1.tin.it>
References: <yTJLa.273191$g92.6375448@news2.tin.it> <3eff7322$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <jkWLa.163881$pR3.3743329@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3F006FD6.1040603@rogers.com>

manuel wrote:

>>import os
>>for (name,value) in os.__dict__:
>>print name,"=",value
>>
This should have been:

 >>> import os
 >>> for key,value in os.__dict__.items():
...     print key,repr(value)
...

...

>The method of Egor don't work too. I've tried
>with a list of lamp objects (instances of povlamp class):
>
>for lamp in lamps:
>    for i in  dir(lamp):
>        if i[0] != "_":
>            print lamp.i
>
That last line should be:
    print getattr(lamp, i )

that is, you want to use the string value stored in i to get the 
attribute, not get an attribute named 'i'.

HTH,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun 25 17:23:51 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:23:51 +0200
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
In-Reply-To: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com>
References: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030625212351.GA4388@nl.linux.org>

Gobo Borz wrote:
> I have a python cgi program that uses print statements to write html. 
> The program has grown, and for reasons I won't bore you with, I need to 
> build the page in a string and "print" it at once.

Another way, which has not yet been mentioned but which I like much,
is the cStringIO module. You can write to a string as if it is a
file:

  0 >>> import cStringIO
  1 >>> mystr = cStringIO.StringIO()
  2 >>> mystr.write("<html")
  3 >>> mystr.write("<body>")
  4 >>> mystr.write("<h1>Header</h1>")
  5 >>> mystr.write("<p>Hello, world!</p>")
  6 >>> mystr.write("</body></html>")
 10 >>> mystr.getvalue()
'<html<body><h1>Header</h1><p>Hello, world!</p></body></html>'

The cStringIO module is documented at:

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-StringIO.html

cStringIO is a faster C implementation with the same API.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
196. If a man put out the eye of another man, his eye shall be put out.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From printers at sendme.cz  Wed Jun 11 14:22:00 2003
From: printers at sendme.cz (A)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:22:00 +0200
Subject: Bulletin Board Message Systems
Message-ID: <3EE78F68.18700.22DBA27@localhost>

Hi,
Does anyone know about
Bulletin Board Message System(s)
written in Python?
Thanks for help
Ladislav






From belred1 at yahoo.com  Tue Jun  3 23:35:11 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 03:35:11 GMT
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
References: <20030603164521903-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org> <bbjb36$h13$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <PNdDa.824522$OV.780836@rwcrnsc54>

> >The current way of declaring a method to be a class method or a static
> >method leaves much to be desired.  While it is flexible in the sense
> >that new types of method modifiers can be created without any
> >syntactical backwards incompatibilities, it just isn't that user-
> >friendly (and, in turn, not Pythonic).
>
> No argument; Guido considers the current method experimental.  The
> current front-runner for fixing this is to add function decorators:
>
>     def myMethod(args) [staticmethod]:
>         blah, blah, blah
>
> staticmethod would be a callable object that would return the
> replacement function object.  This would allow chained decorators.
> -- 


 i'm sorry, but i'm not following you. can you please explain to me what you
mean by staticmethod being a replacement function object? so, staticmethod
isn't a keyword here? i must be missing something here,  because this seems
weird to me.

bryan





From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jun 11 12:55:37 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 16:55:37 GMT
Subject: Kerberos authentication for IMAP?
References: <bbtrf1$dbiin$1@ID-58778.news.dfncis.de> <m3y90dvzhl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bc2g5c$1nmq$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <bc7jmu$3thv$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <bc7mu9$23la$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

Quoth jps <jps at lopan.dccs.upenn.edu>:
| In <bc2g5c$1nmq$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu> "Donn Cave" <donn at u.washington.edu> writes:
|> Anyway, supposing that the krb4 module is ready to go ... The imaplib
|> authenticate function deals with the AUTHENTICATE command, 6.2.2 in
|> the IMAP4 RFC 3501, which is more generically a SASL implementation.
|
| How about a python interface to the cyrus-sasl library written in Pyrex?
|
| You can find one on a page that Google knows:
| http://www.google.com/search?&q=site%3Awww.upenn.edu+python+sasl
|
| Go to the UNIX section to find the Python sasl module.
|
| And if anyone wants to take over the maintainance of this python sasl module,
| please let me know. We don't have the staff time to enhance or support it,
| but it fills an important need in Python.

I haven't downloaded it to see in detail what it does, but it looks
like Cyrus-SASL must introduce some extra complications, if it warrants
a C library unto itself.  I think the architecture is kind of unfortunate,
because that work that you can no longer afford to do was invested in the
support of a single application.

GSS authentication to the UW imapd works fine with a Python interface
to the MIT GSSAPI functions, ca. 400 lines of C, plus some 150 lines of
Python if you get really carried away.  The same GSSAPI module will work
for any GSS authenticated application.  Is Cyrus-SASL any different ``on
the wire''?  I assume not - it probably works with the Kerberos options
in (Windows) Eudora and MacOS X Mail, right?  So does UW imapd GSS
authentication, so that would apparently make them the same on the wire.

	Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From jubafre at brturbo.com  Mon Jun  9 07:15:47 2003
From: jubafre at brturbo.com (jubafre at brturbo.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:15:47 -0300 (BRT)
Subject: Tkinter ->> selected mouse text
Message-ID: <28043694.1055157347756.JavaMail.nobody@webmail2>

how can i get a selected text with the mouse in a text componnent in tkinter?? i have to get start position and end position of the selected text.


Juliano Freitas

From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jun 20 16:11:34 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 22:11:34 +0200
Subject: SAX API for Python Vs Pyxie
In-Reply-To: <f2800d70.0306201157.58f63d8a@posting.google.com>
References: <f2800d70.0306201157.58f63d8a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bcvppl$qa5$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Sriram Chadalavada wrote:

> Please let me know which of them (SAX - Python libraries (which one?))
> or Pyxie would be more useful for the task at hand.

That depends very much on the nature of the transformation. E.g. will
the output document have a similar structure, or contain entirely 
different data? Will it be a problem to keep the entire document in 
memory? Will the entire document be needed for processing, or is it
only a few parts of the input that you need to produce the output?
etc.

Without such information, no advise can be given.

Regards,
Martin




From cce at clarkevans.com  Sun Jun  8 13:30:51 2003
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C. Evans)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 17:30:51 +0000
Subject: PyProtocols 0.9  (PEP 246)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030607180620.02418c50@mail.telecommunity.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030607180620.02418c50@mail.telecommunity.com>
Message-ID: <20030608173051.GA2943@doublegemini.com>

Phillip,

   If you wish to update PEP 246 to include the changes found by
   your experience [1], I would be honored to include them and
   add you as a co-sponsor of PEP 246.  That is, assuming Alex 
   agrees. 

Best,

Clark

[1] http://peak.telecommunity.com/protocol_ref/node9.html

| PyProtocols resources include:
| * Reference Manual (HTML):
|   http://peak.telecommunity.com/protocol_ref/module-protocols.html




From achrist at easystreet.com  Wed Jun 25 17:17:27 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:17:27 -0700
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.1.2
References: <slrnbf126d.67u.alf@largo.fayauffre.org> <6q1xxrpcu0.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <slrnbf1996.6la.alf@largo.fayauffre.org> <6qsmq7ntwd.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <slrnbf2opt.h5.alf@largo.fayauffre.org> <3EF9FAD4.7B98ECBC@easystreet.com> <uel1hub6d.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <3EFA1167.B12E9068@easystreet.com>

Thanks  giga.  I thought that NT didn't give me a choice about that,
but now I've set it bigger.  That will  be great if it works.  Gotta
reboot to try it.

Al

David Bolen wrote:
> 
> achrist at easystreet.com writes:
> 
> > I just hit an unfixable (for now) problem with pychecker, too.
> > Ran out of memory.  My machine is WinNT 4.0 + 128 MB, and running
> > pychecker on a program (40k LOC + wxPython + a few other library
> > packages) runs me out of memory with nothing else running.
> > (I've got an old machine for which it is very hard to find memory
> > upgrade)
> 
> How about some more disk?  And what's your virtual memory set to?  It
> may stink in terms of performance, depending on what the real working
> set size is, but just giving yourself some more virtual memory (aka
> disk or upping the defined swap) should take care of the out of memory
> error.
> 
> That is unless the code is actually tickling some sort of bug in
> PyChecker that causes it to burn memory unnecessarily.
> 
> -- David



From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Sat Jun 28 04:49:46 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 04:49:46 -0400
Subject: struct.pack and perl's 'B' code for bitstrings
In-Reply-To: <20030627201935.3669537E73@www.fastmail.fm>
References: <20030627201935.3669537E73@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20030628084946.GA78521@hishome.net>

On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 02:19:35PM -0600, Justin Johnson wrote:
> Is there anything equivalent to perl's pack code B, which allows you to
> specify bits to pack?  For example, in perl, pack('B8', '00000010') will
> return 8 bits exactly as the bit string appears.  I don't see any similar
> codes in struct.pack.  In general struct.pack is not as robust as perl's
> pack function.  

Are you using the word 'robust' to mean 'featureful'?  

> Is there a better version of struct somewhere, or how are
> people overcoming some of these problems?

I've heard of some alternative version of struct. I've never checked if 
they have bitstring options. When I need something like this I just use 
the int or long constructor with radix 2:

>>> struct.pack('B', int('00000010', 2))
'\x02'

>>> struct.pack('>H', int('0001001000011000', 2))
'\x12\x18'

    Oren




From m at moshez.org  Wed Jun  4 13:06:49 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 17:06:49 -0000
Subject: How to write a constructor accepting initialization and file persistence?
In-Reply-To: <20030604110239.GA9875@pedos.es>
References: <20030604110239.GA9875@pedos.es>
Message-ID: <20030604170649.25021.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz <gradha at titanium.sabren.com> wrote:

> Since Python doesn't have function overloading, I don't know very
> well what's the best way to write the constructor of an object which
> should accept initialization parameters or an xml.dom.minidom node
> storing it's data.

Use named constructors, of course.
There are several ways to do named constructors in Python, but my
favourite is subclassing:

> class something(parent):
> 
>    def __init__(self, one, two, three, file_data = None)
>       super(something, self).__init__(one, three, file_data)
>       if file_data:
>          init_extra_attributes_from_file_data()
>       else:
>          init_extra_attributes_from_parameters(one, two, thre)

class _something(parent):
    pass

class somethingFromParameters(_something):
    def __init__(self, one, two, three):
        pass

class somethingFromFileData(_something):
    def __init__(self, file_data):
        pass

The user now clearly indicates which constructor he wants to use:

somethingFromParameters(1,2,3)
somethingFromFileData("hello.dat")
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From dave at nullcube.com  Thu Jun  5 07:49:49 2003
From: dave at nullcube.com (Dave Harrison)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:49:49 +1000
Subject: Singleton class: what is the purpose?
In-Reply-To: <20030605111536.GA3436@nl.linux.org>
References: <20030605111536.GA3436@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <20030605114949.GA427@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>

Hi Gerrit,

A Singleton is a very common design pattern (see "Design Patterns : Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software" by Gamma et al).

To quote the books quick description :
"Ensure a class only has one instance, and provide a global point of access
to it"

Essentially if you have a database, and you have to access it repeatedly,
you want to make sure you dont update from one direction while another direction
is trusting on that data still being the same while it does something else.

Eg. You have a database object.  You are in the process of updating a record
based on what is in record #43.  You are fiddling with that entry.

At the same time, another client in the same system has also pulled the record and done something else.

You write your data back, just before the other person writes theirs back.  Yours gets overwritten.

If you had a singleton, you would both be accessing the same database, and this problem would not have occurred because you would have known the other person had already checked that record out (since you were both using the same connection to the database instead of seperate ones).

The same can go for file writing and any other time you want to make sure everything is using the same instance of an object.

A neat extension of this is the borg pattern as outlines in the Python Cookbook.

The code (as show to me by a friend) is below .. I hope that friend
doesn't mind me posting it.  The code was a quick hack in a coffee shop
to demonstrate the borg to me.  The design was for a packet sniffer
incidentally.

----------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python2.2

class Borg:
    _state = {}
    def __init__(self):
        self.__dict__ = self._state

class Parser(Borg):
    def __init__(self):
        Borg.__init__(self)
        self._components = []

    def addComponent(self, componentClass):
        self._components.append(componentClass)

    def accept(cls, packet):
        if packet[0] == cls.NAME:
            return 1
        else:
            return 0
    accept=classmethod(accept)

    def parse(self, packet):
        print self.NAME, "parsing ", packet
        for i in self._components:
            if i.accept(packet[1:]):
                parser = i()
                parser.parse(packet[1:])

class UDP(Parser):
    NAME = "UDP"
    def __init__(self):
        Parser.__init__(self)

class TCP(Parser):
    NAME = "TCP"
    def __init__(self):
        Parser.__init__(self)

class IP(Parser):
    NAME = "IP"
    def __init__(self):
        Parser.__init__(self)
        self.addComponent(IP)
        self.addComponent(TCP)
        self.addComponent(UDP)

class Ethernet(Parser):
    NAME = "Ethernet"
    def __init__(self):
        Parser.__init__(self)
        self.addComponent(IP)

x = Ethernet()
packet = ["Ethernet", "IP", "IP", "TCP"]
x.parse(packet)
----------------------------------------------

As you can see, the packet list is retaining state between instantiations
of the class.  Its a tiny bit of black magic since you are fooling
with the state dictionary.  But very useful.

Hope that helps.

Dave
http://www.nullcube.com

Gerrit Holl (gerrit at nl.linux.org):
> Hi,
> 
> Guido's article on unifying types and classes mentions singleton classes.
> It says:
> 
> """
> As another example of __new__, here's a
> way to implement the singleton pattern.
> """
> (http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html)
> 
> What is a singleton class? What is the purpose of a singleton class?
> 
> On the web, I have found that a singleton class allows only one instance.
> Is that correct? If so, it should be easily implementable with:
> 
>  20 >>> class Singleton(object):
>  20 ...  instances = []
>  20 ...  def __init__(self):
>  20 ...   if len(self.__class__.instances) == 0:
>  20 ...    self.__class__.instances.append(self)
>  20 ...   else:
>  20 ...    raise Exception("No way jose!")
>  20 ... # to do it correct, I think getrefcount would me neccesary
>  53 >>> Singleton()
> <__main__.Singleton object at 0x403afe4c>
>  54 >>> Singleton()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "<stdin>", line 7, in __init__
> Exception: No way jose!
>  55 >>> del Singleton.instances[0] # delete the last reference to the object
>  56 >>> Singleton()
> <__main__.Singleton object at 0x403affac>
> 
> But what is the purpose of a Singleton class?
> 
> yours,
> Gerrit.
> 
> -- 
> 203. If a free-born man strike the body of another free-born man or
> equal rank, he shall pay one gold mina.
>         -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
> --
> Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
> 	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
> Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
> 	http://www.sp.nl/
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jun 22 14:10:36 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 20:10:36 +0200
Subject: python applets inside <OBJECT> anyone?
In-Reply-To: <cb035744.0306220430.8ec6f24@posting.google.com>
References: <cb035744.0306220430.8ec6f24@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF5F11C.2040604@ghaering.de>

Will Stuyvesant wrote:
> The following is from the W3C HTML4.0 specification, but I
> could not get it to work anyhow (using "myscript.py"
> containing "print '<p>12:00</p>'" instead of the URI in the
> example).  Can you?  Why is this "python applet" example
> there in the HTML 4 spec, is there any browser supporting it
> (my IE6 doesn't even give the "An animated clock" message or
> another error message).  They should not put Python applet
> examples in specifications that don't work, this makes
> Python look bad! [...]

LMAO!

FWIW I do see the alternative text of the OBJECT tag in both Mozilla and 
that Internet Exploder thing you talked about.

-- Gerhard




From Jim.West at checklogix.com  Mon Jun 23 12:15:34 2003
From: Jim.West at checklogix.com (Jim West)
Date: 23 Jun 2003 10:15:34 -0600
Subject: c-struct, 3rd party libs and extensions
Message-ID: <1056384934.1021.34.camel@jwest1.corp.hiscorp.net>

Good day all,

  Ok, here is my next dilemma.

  Python function calls my extension (written in C) that then calls a
third party library function that returns a c struct.

  How do I return that c struct back to the calling Python function ?

  Again, thanx to all help which is appreciated.

- Jim






From dlUN-SPAMrubin at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  4 13:58:34 2003
From: dlUN-SPAMrubin at yahoo.com (Daniel)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 10:58:34 -0700
Subject: problem with LOB's and DCOracle2
Message-ID: <3EDE334A.3C99A22A@yahoo.com>

I'm trying to create a new LOB to insert into a table, but get an error
when I try to read it back in (in fact, it's a very bad error--a seg
fault). I'm using DCOracle2 1.3b Any suggestions?

>>> db=DCOracle2.connect('me/pw at db')
>>> clob=db.LobLocator('SQLT_CLOB')
>>> d='insert into foo values(9, XMLTYPE.createXML(:m))'
>>> clob.write('<f>foo</f>')
10
>>> db.execute(d, clob)
4
>>> c=db.cursor()
>>> c.execute("select * from foo")
1
>>> a=c.fetchall()
Segmentation fault



--
To reply to me directly, please remove "UNSPAM" from my email address





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun  3 16:29:31 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:29:31 -0600
Subject: Exception - how to ignore it ?
In-Reply-To: <bbhjdr$ave$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>; from jarausch@igpm.rwth-aachen.de on Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 09:40:42AM +0200
References: <bbhjdr$ave$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Message-ID: <20030603142931.C2017@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Helmut Jarausch:
> is it possible for an exception handler
> to just e.g. print something and set some
> global flags but then to have the script
> continue just after the statement which
> raised the exception?

As Alan said, no.

An alternative approach: let your code accept an error-handling
callback function to be invoked when a problem occurs.  Such a
callback can set global flags and return control to your code, or
raise an exception, etc..

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"What I find most baffling about that song is that it was not a hit."
                                          -- Tony Dylan Davis (CKUA)




From tireseas at onetel.com  Fri Jun 20 15:34:07 2003
From: tireseas at onetel.com (valhalla)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:34:07 +0100
Subject: Using OS time (Donn Cave)
In-Reply-To: <20030620190802.5101.78034.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20030620190802.5101.78034.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <200306202034.07115.tireseas@onetel.com>

On Friday 20 Jun 2003 20:08, donn cave wrote:

> import os
> import select

> class TimeoutError(Exception):
>       pass

> def readto(maxsize, timeout):
>        r, w, e = select.select([0], [], [], timeout)
>        if r:
>                return os.read(0, maxsize)
>        else:
>                raise TimeoutError

> I used 0 and os.read where you might currently be using the stdin
> file object.  stdin reads from unit 0, but it adds some buffering
> that can confuse matters when also using select.

> Stay away from signals when possible - if there's anything worse
> than signals, it's signals in Python.

>   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu

Thanks Donn

Could you walk me through what you are doing in the 'readto' function ... I'm 
a little slow on the uptake.
What's the deal with signals in Python?

Thanks 
Andy

-- 
====================
||  Reg. Linux User: 313143 ||
====================
Sign the Petition:
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/endtcpa1/




From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jun 15 07:05:45 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:05:45 +0200
Subject: Bug - where to report to ?
In-Reply-To: <3eec4e29$0$28022$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be>
References: <3eec4e29$0$28022$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3EEC5309.6080508@ghaering.de>

Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> what's the canonical place to send bug reports to?  [...]

If you go to http://python.org/ with Mozilla and enter bug using 
typeahead find [1], you'll get a link to 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470

The Python developers use Sourceforge for bugs, patches and CVS.

-- Gerhard

[1] Ok, normal find will also do in this case, just wanted to remind 
everybody how great typeahead find in Mozilla is ;-)




From wrbt at email.com  Mon Jun 16 18:35:07 2003
From: wrbt at email.com (Larry)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 15:35:07 -0700
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <16102.10640.855883.967908@montanaro.dyndns.org> <20030610190206.54459.qmail@web11407.mail.yahoo.com> <mailman.1055526867.16928.python-list@python.org> <3eeb21df$0$97245$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <2ec1bc1c.0306161435.271fa56a@posting.google.com>

Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote in message news:<3eeb21df$0$97245$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk>...
> Gustavo Niemeyer wrote:
> >>>    >> 4.5) Leaving if:, elif:, and else: on their
>  own lines for fear of
> >>>    >>      scorn or deprecation.
> >>>
> >>>    5) Discovering list comprehensions and then
> >>>dumping filter() and map().
> >>
> >>      6) Belive that "self" is not ugly
> > 
> > 
> > 7) You don't understand why most languages don't have
> >    for/else and while/else.
> > 
> > 8) You use the interactive interpreter as a calculator.
> 
> 
> You write a programme in VBScript, and wonder why you keep getting 1-off 
> errors...
> 
> regards Max M

I really like the "5) Discovering list comprehensions and then dumping
filter() and map()" and "8) You use the interactive interpreter as a
calculator." Both very true.

Regarding VBScript I weep like Canio in Pagliacci every time I'm
forced to type "on error goto 0" it's just sick sick sick and wrong.



From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jun  8 17:11:37 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 23:11:37 +0200
Subject: program path
In-Reply-To: <3EE37C02.3E43BBB@engcorp.com>
References: <fyvEa.17336$pK2.23786@news.indigo.ie>		<3EE28ABC.7D6DB511@engcorp.com>		<D0wEa.17343$pK2.23880@news.indigo.ie>		<3EE2AD6E.933C6ED7@engcorp.com>		<mailman.1055048954.23011.python-list@python.org>		<3EE36B46.343D8774@engcorp.com>
	<mailman.1055092216.26497.python-list@python.org>
	<3EE37C02.3E43BBB@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3EE3A689.6050204@ghaering.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring wrote: 
>>Peter Hansen wrote:
>>
>>>Can anyone with access to a WinNT/XP machine that can invoke
>>>scripts without explicitly specifying "python.exe" in the
>>>command line add to this?
>>
>>#v+
>>C:\>copy con: tmp\x.py
>>import sys
>>print sys.argv[0]
>>^Z
>>         1 file(s) copied.
>>
>>C:\>tmp\x.py
>>C:\tmp\x.py
>>
>>C:\>ver
>>
>>Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
>>#v-
>  
> Thanks Gerhard, but could you please try running it via
> a directory available only via PATH? [...]

#v+
C:\>set path=c:\tmp;%PATH%

C:\>x.py
c:\tmp\x.py
#v-

Seems to work on XP.

-- Gerhard




From clifford.wells at attbi.com  Sat Jun 14 20:22:47 2003
From: clifford.wells at attbi.com (Cliff Wells)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 17:22:47 -0700
Subject: why does python execute line bye line as im coding?????????
In-Reply-To: <20030614212133.GA7187@nl.linux.org>
References: <20030613235210.11559.00000446@mb-m13.aol.com>
	 <1055568135.6522.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	 <20030614212133.GA7187@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <1055636567.30483.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Sat, 2003-06-14 at 14:21, Gerrit Holl wrote:
> Cliff Wells wrote:
> > entire program and execute it all at once, you need to use a text editor
> > (preferably emacs) to create the file (something like "myprogram.py")
> > and then use the command "python myprogram.py" to run it.
> 
> <silence>

What?  Not an emacs fan?  <wink>

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at attbi.com>





From roel at riks.nl  Wed Jun 25 04:36:57 2003
From: roel at riks.nl (Roel Vanhout)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:36:57 +0200
Subject: OFF TOPIC: What did Guido say?
In-Reply-To: <20030625002727.20904.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030625002727.20904.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3EF95F29.8050609@riks.nl>

He says, in Dutch, literally translated: I am Guido van Rossum and I 
imitate Woody Woodpecker (and then makes the Woody sound). The 
background to this is that there was a program on Dutch television, 10 
or more years ago, that was about cartoons and there was a part where 
kids (between something like 4 and 8 years old) could imitate their 
favourite cartoon character. They usually introduced themselves by 
saying their name, who they were imitating, and then did the imitation. 
It was very popular at the time - even after hearing the 1000th bad 
imitation of Donald Duck, there was something to it. It was something of 
a running joke at the time to imitate cartoon characters, usually 
introduced by saying one's name, to make the connection with the tv 
program. Can't remember what the program was called though, anyone?

cheers,

roel


Carlos Moreira wrote:
> So, what did Guido say in:
> 
> http://www.python.org/~guido/guido.au
> 
> I hear this a thousand times, every day (my co-workers
> want to kill me :) ), and still can't undertand
> Guido's words. I especially pay attention to the funny
> noise in the end.
> 
>      []'s
> 
> Cadu
> [...besides guido.au, I play: freesoftware-song by
> Stallman, Bjarne Stroustrup pronounciation by B.
> Stroustrup, Linux prnounciation by Linus Torwalds, and
> the Free Pascal Anthem sung by my friends...]
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
> http://search.yahoo.com
> 

-- 
Roel Vanhout - Programmer/Systems Administrator
RIKS BV
Papenstraat 8 - 6211 LG Maastricht
Tel +31 (0)43 388 3708 - Fax +31 (0)43 325 3155





From theller at python.net  Tue Jun 17 11:48:23 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:48:23 +0200
Subject: swig and init_module or initmodule, windows XP
References: <bcn8cd$efu$00$1@news.t-online.com> <smq8kb99.fsf@python.net>
 <bcnccl$bp6$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <n0ggk8mw.fsf@python.net>

[Please don't top-post. I've rearranged the following to compensate...]

"Thomas Jung" <jung-paz at t-online.de> writes:

> "Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:smq8kb99.fsf at python.net...

>> "Jung-Paz" <jung-paz at t-online.de> writes:
>>
>> > I am using Python2.2, mingw and Swig 1.3.19, Windows XP, and trying
>> > to build a module using the distutils.

>> > Basically it works, but in the final linking step I get an
>> > undefined reference to "initexample" (the module name is example).

>> > This sounds reasonable, as the file example_wrap.c, as produced by
>> > swig, contains only a function "init_example.c".  If I replace
>> > "init_example" by hand with "initexample" and compile and link by
>> > hand, everything is fine, and I get a loadable and usable module.
>> > Any idea how I could make swig to produce other function names, or
>> > whatever could help ?
>>
>> Sounds like you should name your extension _example.pyd instead of
>> example.pyd...
>>
>
> But: I could rename it once I have it - however, unless I change that
> "init_example" to "initexample" by hand, it dies in the linking step with a
> unresolved reference to initexample ...
>
Can you post the setup script you use?

Thomas



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Tue Jun 17 21:06:49 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 01:06:49 GMT
Subject: How to make an executable file
References: <b675611e.0306171648.a289a4e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbevep8.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 17 Jun 2003 17:48:38 -0700, Syed Ahmed Shah wrote:
> I am a begineer.

Welcome.  Is that like an engineer?  :-)

> I know how a C++ compiler makes an executable file from the source
> code, which you can run anywhere, independent of the Compiler. 

An important difference is that the executable file can *not* be run
"anywhere", but only in environments specifically targeted by the
compiler.  Python scripts, on the other hand, can be run unmodified in
any environment where Python is available.

> But how does one do it in Python. Is it necessary to have the Python
> interpreter in the machine to run an application written in Python.

Yes, Python is required to run your Python programs.  It is possible to
bundle the whole Python environment in with the script and distribute
that as a binary executable, but the result is far larger than the
script itself, and still needs to be installed, and *still* only works
on environments specifically targeted by whatever builds that binary
executable.

Far simpler is to give instructions on how to install Python; this needs
to be done only once, then any Python program can be run whether or not
it is distributed targeted for the specific platform the user is
running.

-- 
 \           "An eye for an eye would make the whole world blind."  -- |
  `\                                                    Mahatma Gandhi |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From clifford.wells at attbi.com  Sun Jun 15 16:48:11 2003
From: clifford.wells at attbi.com (Cliff Wells)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 13:48:11 -0700
Subject: Python articles
In-Reply-To: <nrkpevsm7psg011fvqs0qjh6uj2jjbmjph@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.1055704587.15481.python-list@python.org>
	 <nrkpevsm7psg011fvqs0qjh6uj2jjbmjph@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1055710091.732.60.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, 2003-06-15 at 13:15, John Hall wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:13:19 -0300, Gustavo Niemeyer
> <niemeyer at conectiva.com> wrote:
> 
> >[1] https://moin.conectiva.com.br/GustavoNiemeyer
> 
> Your website is about 2 meters wide, but my monitor only about 300mm,
> so reading it is rather inconvenient.
> (IE V6 on Windows 2000 Pro)

Looks fine on Galeon and Mozilla.  Probably IE's borken CSS
implementation.

-- 
Cliff Wells <clifford.wells at attbi.com>





From manuelbastioni at tin.it  Sat Jun 21 17:45:19 2003
From: manuelbastioni at tin.it (manuel)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:45:19 GMT
Subject: os.listdir()
References: <s6KIa.218256$g92.4546830@news2.tin.it> <just-CDC716.22300020062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <b7LIa.218628$g92.4560101@news2.tin.it> <just-CDEAFA.23550020062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <TFLIa.218846$g92.4567844@news2.tin.it> <mailman.1056150163.21087.python-list@python.org> <tKYIa.220887$g92.4663199@news2.tin.it> <mailman.1056207084.13125.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pl4Ja.223040$g92.4743459@news2.tin.it>


> posix.listdir, rather than nt.listdir.

Thanks!

     Manuel






From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Jun 20 14:32:52 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:32:52 -0400
Subject: sum(strings)
References: <bcsjii$3vf$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr>
 <mailman.1056036815.23557.python-list@python.org>
 <bcsnja$arg$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr> <UUlIa.113761$pR3.2476192@news1.tin.it>
 <sNr8+kKkXc+H092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <UN18+kKkXo4a092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|I am talking about sum(['x', 'y']) -> 'xy'.

sum_strings = lambda *s: ''.join(s)

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------




From morten at nidelven-it.no  Tue Jun 10 09:43:26 2003
From: morten at nidelven-it.no (Morten W. Petersen)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 06:43:26 -0700
Subject: Binding socket to an address
Message-ID: <bb8e9cd9.0306100543.139a76fe@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I'm trying to bind httplib.HTTP requests to a local IP, using this class:

class custom_http(httplib.HTTP):

    def connect(self):
        """Connect to the host and port specified in __init__."""
        self.sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        self.sock.bind(('216.93.187.217', 1234))
        self.sock.connect((self.host, self.port))

However, it doesn't work.  What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,

Morten



From ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca  Thu Jun  5 14:21:12 2003
From: ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca (Aurélien Géron)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:21:12 +0200
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
References: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <bblob1$2fo$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <bbo1mb$qb6$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

> Aur?lien G?ron:
> > - the documentation is half Tk and half python which makes it confusing
>
> Well, I find the wxPython documentation pretty confusing myself.
> The Qt documentation is much easier to use.  For example, suppose
> I'm looking at the wxListBar documention to find out how to select
> an item programmatically.  It's not on that page - I need to look at the
> list of base classes, guess that it's in wxControlWithItems and look at
> that documentation.  Qt's docs include a list of all methods available
> from a given widget.  I also like Qt's cross references to code, inclusion
> of how the widgets look, and that the HTML docs for a widget are
> in a URL ending with the same name (I have Konqueror set up so that
> "qt:XYZ" expands to "/path/to/qt/docs/qtXYZ.html", so I can quickly
> pull up the docs for the widget.)
>
> Or, for example, see the "wxGrid classes overview" which has sections
> with content "Yet to be written."
>
> > So I looked for a better way and behold: I found wxPython.  In
comparison,
> > it truly ROCKS !
>
> I've only dabbled in Qt and wxPython, but so far I've found Qt easier
> to use.  The API also seems a bit more stable - I've known people who
> used wxWindows a couple years ago, and things like the table widget
> kept changing enough that they decided to write their own interface
> layer to that widget.
>
> That may have stabilized since then.
>
> > I'm sure beginners would come to love Python even faster if they could
> truly
> > create their first GUI in minutes.  I'm voting for wxPython to replace
Tk
> in
> > the future Python distribution.
> >
> > Any comments on this ? Anyone else want to vote ?
>
> I also found Qt's Designer easier to use than Boa Constructor or the
> XML-based
> one which comes with wxPython.  In no small part because Qt includes a
> nice tutorial describing how to write a simple application.  With Boa
> Constructor,
> I couldn't figure out how to say "put a spacer between these two objects".
> I
> gave up and just wrote the code myself, using an empty text widget, but
even
> then my layout doesn't work correctly on resizes, and I don't yet know
why.
>
> Then again, I don't use Tkinter, so changing to another default GUI
doesn't
> really affect me.
>
>                     Andrew
>                     dalke at dalkescientific.com


Qt sounds interesting !  I have never tried it out but I certainly will
check it out !!

Thanks for your answer,
Aur?lien





From achrist at easystreet.com  Wed Jun 25 15:41:08 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:41:08 -0700
Subject: [ANN] pylint-0.1.2
References: <slrnbf126d.67u.alf@largo.fayauffre.org> <6q1xxrpcu0.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <slrnbf1996.6la.alf@largo.fayauffre.org> <6qsmq7ntwd.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <slrnbf2opt.h5.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
Message-ID: <3EF9FAD4.7B98ECBC@easystreet.com>

I just tried to use pylint-0.1.2 under Windows NT and hit a few
problems.  First, setup crashes because there is not pylint.bat file
in the  pylint-0.1.2\bin directory.  That's easy to fix.  

Worse problem is 

	File "I:\python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\controls.py",
	line 16, in ? class wxControlPtr(wxWindowPtr):
	NameError: name 'wxWindowPtr' is not defined


My app uses wxPython, and evidently pylint can't work through
all the tricks in the wxPython  and wxWindows code.  

I just hit an unfixable (for now) problem with pychecker, too.
Ran out of memory.  My machine is WinNT 4.0 + 128 MB, and running
pychecker on a program (40k LOC + wxPython + a few other library
packages) runs me out of memory with nothing else running.
(I've got an old machine for which it is very hard to find memory 
upgrade)


Al



From mvs2 at linuxmail.org  Thu Jun  5 10:24:09 2003
From: mvs2 at linuxmail.org (marcus)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 07:24:09 -0700
Subject: Iteration through a text file.
References: <1f9c7669.0306041001.e5b72ea@posting.google.com> <3EDE34AA.C8247DA0@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <1f9c7669.0306050624.11721703@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3EDE34AA.C8247DA0 at engcorp.com>...

> 
> You might want to post simple examples of the input you expect to
> find and the output you want, so we don't have to reverse engineer
> your intent from the code or the summary description.

OK, 

Here is what part of the file looks like:


 
 
 
 
Server, server123 
Uptime Report for: \\10.xxx.xx.xx

Current OS: Microsoft Windows 2000, Service Pack 2, Multiprocessor
Free.
Time Zone: Central Standard Time

System Events as of 3/31/2003 8:29:50 AM:

Date:      Time:        Event:               Comment:
---------- -----------  ------------------- 
-----------------------------------
 3/26/2003  1:17:25 AM  Abnormal Shutdown    Prior uptime:12137d
7h:17m:25s
 3/26/2003  9:02:48 AM  Boot                 Prior downtime:0d
7h:45m:23s

Current System Uptime: 4 day(s), 23 hour(s), 27 minute(s), 53
second(s)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since 3/24/2003: (Last 7 Days)

           System Availability: 95.6054%
                  Total Uptime: 7d 0h:44m:27s
                Total Downtime: 0d 7h:45m:23s
                 Total Reboots: 1
     Mean Time Between Reboots: 7.35 days
             Total Bluescreens: 0
 
 
 
 
Server, calltaker8 
UPTIME was unable to connect to host: \\10.xxx.xx.xx 
 
 
 
 
Server, superserver1
UPTIME was unable to connect to host: \\10.xxx.xx.xx
 
 
 
 
Server, Dabrain1
UPTIME was unable to connect to host: \\10.xxx.xx.xx
 
 
 
 
Server, NEPTUNE
Uptime Report for: \\10.xxx.xx.xx

OS: Windows NT 4.0 (Build 1381), Service Pack 6, Uniprocessor Free.
Time Zone: Central Standard Time

System Events as of 3/31/2003 8:29:51 AM:

Date:      Time:        Event:               Comment:
---------- -----------  ------------------- 
-----------------------------------

Current System Uptime: 75 day(s), 4 hour(s), 7 minute(s), 19 second(s)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since 3/24/2003: (Last 7 Days)

           System Availability: 100.0000%
                  Total Uptime: 6d 14h:46m:22s
                Total Downtime: 0d 0h:0m:0s
                 Total Reboots: 0
             Total Bluescreens: 0
 



******************

I'm looking to extract server name, and availablity time.  If there is
no availablity time, I'll write out "N/A".



From gb at cs.unc.edu  Tue Jun 10 16:26:15 2003
From: gb at cs.unc.edu (Gary Bishop)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 16:26:15 -0400
Subject: Surprising difference (bug?) between traceback and inspect
References: <3ee63ced_2@news.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <3ee63ee7_2@news.unc.edu>

Gary Bishop <gb at cs.unc.edu> wrote:
> The following short script illustrates...

Doh! I forgot to include the code. Here it is.

import inspect, traceback, os

def foo():
  fee()

def fee():
  print 'traceback says', traceback.extract_stack()
  print
  print 'inspect says', inspect.getouterframes(inspect.currentframe())

print 'in current directory'

foo() # both include filename

print
print 'in another directory'

os.chdir('..')

foo() # only traceback has filename




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Jun  9 05:34:03 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:34:03 +0200
Subject: PEP 318: Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <E19PDu0-00072g-00@sc8-pr-cvs1.sourceforge.net>
References: <E19PDu0-00072g-00@sc8-pr-cvs1.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <20030609093403.GA2828@nl.linux.org>

Hi,

A new PEP was checked in:
>     Various syntaxes have been proposed in comp.lang.python.  The
>     most common are demonstrated below.
> 
>         def foo(self) [synchronized(lock), classmethod]:
>             perform method operation
> 
>         def foo(self) {'pre': synchronized(lock), 'classmethod': True}:
>             """ Skip Montanaro syntax """
>             perform method operation
> 
>         def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
>             """ Gerrit Holl syntax """
>             perform method operation

This wasn't mine actually. Mine was:

def classmethod(foo(self))
def synchonized(classmethod(foo(self)), lock)

However, def foo as bar is IMHO more readable, so I will happily
accept def foo as bar and withdraw my syntax as a 2nd choice.

>         def foo(self) as synchronized(lock), classmethod:
>             perform method operation
> 
>     More generally, 
> 
>         def foo(self) as <tuple>:
>             perform method operation

A <tuple> would imply a obliged trailing comma if only one modifier is used.
I would say:

funcdef: "def" funcname "(" [parameter_list] ")" [call_list] ":"
call-list: callable ("," callable)* [","]

The trailing comma is also allowed in parameter_list, although I've never
seen it:

  0 >>> def f(a,): return a
  0 ...
  1 >>> f(3)
3

But now the properties: those are more difficult.
A legal syntax would be:

def __get(self) as property: ...

However, this doesn't work for set and del. Using function attributes to
accomplish properties, as has been proposed in the past, is a different
story and would require a different PEP.

Maybe:
    class Foo(object):
        bar = property()
        def __get(self) as bar.get:
            ...
        def __set(self, parrot) as bar.set:
            ...
        def __del(self) as bar.del_:
            ...

This would mean adding three methods to a property object,
get, set and del_ (need a good name for that!), that set bar.fget,
bar.fset and bar.fdel. Currently, those are readonly attributes,
so implementing it in Python seems impossible.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
245. If any one hire oxen, and kill them by bad treatment or blows, he
shall compensate the owner, oxen for oxen.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From ffraikin at met.wallonie.be  Tue Jun  3 11:09:16 2003
From: ffraikin at met.wallonie.be (Francis)
Date: 3 Jun 2003 08:09:16 -0700
Subject: Buid error on Python 2.1.3 for Solaris 8
Message-ID: <f67db6b0.0306030709.552d9b6a@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to build Python 2.1.3 on Solaris 8 (with gcc 3.2.2)
I can find the package 2.2.2 on SunFreeware but Zope  I want to use Python 2.1.3

After ./configure and make there is an error

  rm -f libpython2.1.a
  ar cr libpython2.1.a Modules/getbuildinfo.o
  sh ar: not found 
  *** Error code 1
  make: Fatal error: Command failed for target 'libpython2.1.a'

What's wrong?

Francis



From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Tue Jun  3 23:28:13 2003
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 03:28:13 GMT
Subject: wxPython + wxGrid + data shape change.
In-Reply-To: <871xybqhpl.fsf@smtp.gsi.de>
References: <871xybqhpl.fsf@smtp.gsi.de>
Message-ID: <gHdDa.34746$DV.60058@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

Look at the wiki

http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/wxGrid

for a full example look at the MegaGrid example here (needs to be run 
from the wxpython demo directory)

http://lists.wxwindows.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm-cgi?11:mss:19287:200305:giedkbfnkloljnnabgla

You should probably join the wxpython mailing list at wxpython.org




From ketil+ at ii.uib.no  Thu Jun 19 06:48:27 2003
From: ketil+ at ii.uib.no (Ketil Malde)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 12:48:27 +0200
Subject: ICFP Programming Contest (ii)
Message-ID: <egfzm6gx6s.fsf@sefirot.ii.uib.no>

----8<----[snip]----8<----

ICFP Programming Contest
========================

There are just ten days to go to the sixth ICFP Programming Contest!
Starting at midnight on Saturday morning, June 28th, you can prove
once again that your favourite programming language is "the
programming tool of choice for discriminating hackers!"

Don't miss this opportunity -- check out the contest web site at

        http://icfpcontest.org

for details -- and the tiniest little hint of this year's problem.

John Hughes

----8<----[snip]----8<----

Notice: I'm posting this for JH, due to network trouble.  Please
direct any complaints about topicality to me.  If you follow up,
please consider the groups you reply to (comp.lang.functional *may* be
a good choice if you want to discuss the contest itself, language
specific discussion should go to the appropriate groups; use sound
judgement). 

In spite of the word "functional" appearing, the contest is
specifically open to any (sufficiently portable) tool or language, and
part of the fun is to discuss how the features of various languages
helped/hampered implementors.  I hope everybody with a favorite
language will give it a shot!  (There have been previous contests,
Google will probably tell you where to find more information)

                                                -kzm 

-- 
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun 30 08:25:47 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 06:25:47 -0600
Subject: AN ENROLMENT PROJECTION PROBLEM
In-Reply-To: <37ee60c8.0306290442.60be2b57@posting.google.com>; from ofnap@nus.edu.sg on Sun, Jun 29, 2003 at 05:42:06AM -0700
References: <37ee60c8.0306290442.60be2b57@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030630062547.B18065@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ajith Prasad:
> I would appreciate advice on how best to formulate the following
> problem in Python. [...]

If you really want to bring out the linear algebra guns, I'm sure
Numeric has everything you need.  But for a problem this simple,
I'd just write

    def enrollment(year, intake, survivalrate):
        return sum([intake[year-i]*rate
                    for i, rate in enumerate(survivalrate)])

That's for Python 2.3.  In 2.2 you could write

    def enrollment(year, intake, survivalrate):
        sum = 0
        for i in range(len(survivalrate)):
            sum = sum + intake[year-i]*survivalrate[i]
        return sum

In either case, using it might look something like this:

    # survivalrate[n] is proportion of students who survive n years.
    survivalrate = [1, 0.5, 0.25, 0.1]

    # intake[n] is the number of students intook in year n.
    actualintake = {
            1993: 980, 1994: 1019, 1995: 1038, 1996: 1046, 1997: 1043,
            1998: 970, 1999: 954, 2000: 980, 2001: 952, 2002: 1047,
        }
    plannedintake = {2003: 1000, 2004: 1000, 2005: 1100, 2006: 1200}

    intake = actualintake.copy()
    intake.update(plannedintake)

    print enrollment(2004, intake, survivalrate)

Note that the intake vectors are dicts, not lists; I do this so I
can avoid index-twiddling.  I find the code to be easier to read
and write this way.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
Every public frenzy produces legislation purporting to address it.
                                                  (Kinsley's Law)




From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Jun 16 19:41:54 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:41:54 -0400
Subject: Possible bug in setting Windows file permissions? (os.chmod() not
 working properly?)
In-Reply-To: <5ab0af73.0306161517.43dbb96b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEGMEKAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Matt Shomphe]
> I noticed an error when trying to change the file permissions for a
> file on a Windows (2K) machine.  I'm using David Beazley's excellent
> "Python Essential Reference, 2nd. Ed." as a reference.  According to
> the book (p. 186 for those following along at home), it should be used
> thusly:
>
> import os
> os.chmod('myReadOnlyFile.txt', os.O_RDWR)

That's hard to believe.  O_RDWR is only for use with the os.open() function
(note well too:  not the builtin open() function).

Try this:

    os.chmod('myReadOnlyFile.txt', 0666)

The leading zero is important.  If that still doesn't work, it could be you
don't have permission to change permissions in the current directory.  The
Win2K permission system is much more elaborate than the simple Unix-ish
model Python exposes here.





From cswiger at mac.com  Sun Jun  1 15:25:58 2003
From: cswiger at mac.com (Chuck Swiger)
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 15:25:58 -0400
Subject: Defensive programming
In-Reply-To: <2e363c08.0306010923.a08627f@posting.google.com>
References: <hIqp1WAG0c2+Ew1+@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.1054463105.27128.python-list@python.org> <7xptlxq2yz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <2e363c08.0306010923.a08627f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EDA5346.3080200@mac.com>

Paul Miller wrote:
[ ... ]
> What in the world are collision resistant hashes?

The following (from the manpage for "/dev/random") provides a pretty good 
description of a specific implementation of a collision-resistant hash.

This is used to generate randomized TCP sequence numbers, syncache cookies, and 
other low-level network details to avoid or mitigate against certain attacks 
(like "man-in-the-middle", where the attacker guesses the next TCP sequence 
number for someone else's connection):

"    Sources of randomness from the environment include inter-keyboard tim-
      ings, inter-interrupt timings from some interrupts, and other events
      which are both (a) non-deterministic and (b) hard for an outside observer
      to measure.  Randomness from these sources are added to an "entropy
      pool", which is periodically mixed using the MD5 compression function in
      CBC mode.  As random bytes are mixed into the entropy pool, the routines
      keep an estimate of how many bits of randomness have been stored into the
      random number generator's internal state.

      When random bytes are desired, they are obtained by taking the MD5 hash
      of a counter plus the contents of the "entropy pool".  The reason for the
      MD5 hash is so that we can avoid exposing the internal state of random
      number generator.  Although the MD5 hash does protect the pool, each ran-
      dom byte which is generated from the pool reveals some information which
      was derived from the internal state, and thus increases the amount of
      information an outside attacker has available to try to make some guesses
      about the random number generator's internal state.  For this reason, the
      routine decreases its internal estimate of how many bits of "true random-
      ness" are contained in the entropy pool as it outputs random numbers.

      If this estimate goes to zero, the routine can still generate random num-
      bers; however it may now be possible for an attacker to analyze the out-
      put of the random number generator, and the MD5 algorithm, and thus have
      some success in guessing the output of the routine.  Phil Karn (who
      devised this mechanism of using MD5 plus a counter to extract random num-
      bers from an entropy pool) calls this "practical randomness", since in
      the worst case this is equivalent to hashing MD5 with a counter and an
      undisclosed secret.  If MD5 is a strong cryptographic hash, this should
      be fairly resistant to attack."

-Chuck






From rickfrm at optusnet.com.au  Tue Jun 10 09:47:31 2003
From: rickfrm at optusnet.com.au (Rick Miles)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:47:31 +1000
Subject: idle /idlefork slackware
Message-ID: <200306102347.32084.rickfrm@optusnet.com.au>

Hello all,

I'm very new to python. Actually I'd like to learn it.

I'd like to run it in an ide but wxPython seems like a monumental install.

Idle or idle fork seems simpler and my needs aree basic for now.

At work I downloaded idlefork-0.9b1.tar.gz and untarred it but from there I 
was lost since running python setup.py just gave me some usage messages but I 
have no idea what to enter as opts or cmds.

I'm running mdk-9.0 so I tried the rpm of the same version but mdk installed 
with pyyhon-2.2.1 and the rpm wants python-2.2.

At home (where I would probably be working with python ) I'm running 
Slackware-9.0. (full install) I didn't find idle bundled in with python but I 
may not have looked in the right place.

Are there any slackers on this list who are using python with idle who might 
be able to help me. I haven't found a slackpack (tgz) for idle so I'll have 
to roll my own? Once and if I get idle invoked how do I invoke (start) it?

The beginner tutorials all seem to be MS oriented.

TIA

Rick Miles






From bradley at greystate.com  Fri Jun 13 04:27:31 2003
From: bradley at greystate.com (Bradley Schatz)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:27:31 GMT
Subject: pythonCOM with Flash
References: <RvPFa.37$zx6.1430@news.optus.net.au> <GV%Fa.2949$GU5.41737@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <TVfGa.76$zx6.3873@news.optus.net.au>

Hi Mark,

thanks for the pointers previously.

I have had a further play using the demos you mention, from within
pythonwin.

Here are some notes for things that I dont quite understand..

Makpy finds two typelibraries for Shockwave Flash 1.0 If I look at them
using the MS COM Object viewer, I see that one of them points to an .ocx and
the other points to a .oca

I have modified the webbrowser.py example to use flash - the source is
below.

When I use the IID that points to the ocx (begins with D27) I get the
following trace from within pythonwin:

  File
"C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
line 310, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "C:\projects\flash\flash2.py", line 13, in ?
    FlashModule =
gencache.EnsureModule("{D27CDB6E-AE6D-11CF-96B8-444553540000}", 0, 1, 0)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\gencache.py", line
347, in EnsureModule
    tlbAttr = pythoncom.LoadRegTypeLib(typelibCLSID, major, minor,
lcid).GetLibAttr()
com_error: (-2147319779, 'Library not registered.', None, None)

When I use the IID that points to the .oca I get the following.

  File
"C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
line 310, in RunScript
    exec codeObject in __main__.__dict__
  File "C:\projects\flash\flash2.py", line 60, in ?
    Demo()
  File "C:\projects\flash\flash2.py", line 57, in Demo
    f.Create("Flash Player")
  File "C:\projects\flash\flash2.py", line 42, in Create
    self.ocx.CreateControl("Flash Player", win32con.WS_VISIBLE |
win32con.WS_CHILD, rect, self, 1000)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\mfc\activex.py", line
23, in CreateControl
    self.__dict__["_obj_"] = win32ui.CreateControl(clsid, windowTitle,
style, rect, parent, id, lic_string)
win32ui: CreateControl failed

Any suggestions on what I may be misunderstanding here would be greatly
appreciated.

[test code]
import win32ui, win32con, win32api, regutil
from pywin.mfc import window, activex
from win32com.client import gencache
import sys

#FlashModule =
gencache.EnsureModule("{D27CDB6B-AE6D-11CF-96B8-444553540000}", 0, 1, 0)
FlashModule =
gencache.EnsureModule("{E69E19FB-B24A-4AA2-9E1A-3C6E59F587FC}", 0, 1, 0)

if FlashModule is None:
 raise ImportError, "Flash does not appear to be installed."

class MyFlashComponent(activex.Control, FlashModule.ShockwaveFlash):
 def OnFSCommand(self, command, args):
  print "FSCommend" , command
 def OnProgress(self, percentDone):
  print "PercentDone", percentDone
 def OnReadyStateChange(self, newState):
  print "State", newState

class BrowserFrame(window.MDIChildWnd):
 def __init__(self, url = None):
  if url is None:
   self.url = regutil.GetRegisteredHelpFile("Main Python Documentation")
  else:
   self.url = url
  pass # Dont call base class doc/view version...
 def Create(self, title, rect = None, parent = None):
  style = win32con.WS_CHILD | win32con.WS_VISIBLE |
win32con.WS_OVERLAPPEDWINDOW
  self._obj_ = win32ui.CreateMDIChild()
  self._obj_.AttachObject(self)
  self._obj_.CreateWindow(None, title, style, rect, parent)
  rect = self.GetClientRect()
  rect = (0,0,rect[2]-rect[0], rect[3]-rect[1])
  self.ocx = MyFlashComponent()
  self.ocx.CreateControl("Flash Player", win32con.WS_VISIBLE |
win32con.WS_CHILD, rect, self, 1000)
  self.ocx.LoadMovie(0,
"http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/afassets/flash/hump_starwars.swf")
  self.ocx.Play()
  self.ocx.Navigate(self.url)
  self.HookMessage (self.OnSize, win32con.WM_SIZE)
 def OnSize (self, params):
  rect = self.GetClientRect()
  rect = (0,0,rect[2]-rect[0], rect[3]-rect[1])
  self.ocx.SetWindowPos(0, rect, 0)

def Demo():
 url = None
 if len(sys.argv)>1:
  url = win32api.GetFullPathName(sys.argv[1])
 f = BrowserFrame(url)
 f.Create("Flash Player")

if __name__=='__main__':
 Demo()


"Mark Hammond" <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote in message
news:GV%Fa.2949$GU5.41737 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Bradley Schatz wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am attempting to use Flash as a UI for a python program. I have
> > successfully prototyped this using VB/Flash, and am not trying to
convert it
> > over to work with python.
> >
> > My problem is this, when I run the following code (attached below)
nothing
> > happens.
> >
> > I assume that the Flash activex component needs to be placed in some
> > container to be seen, as I am not seeing any window come up when I run
this.
> >
> > Could anyone suggest how to embed this into a container?
>
> Look at the Pythonwin OCS demos, under the pywin\demos directory.
> wxPython also has some ActiveX container support, but I have never used
it.
>
> Mark.
>





From bcorfman at amsaa.army.mil  Wed Jun 18 13:11:25 2003
From: bcorfman at amsaa.army.mil (Brandon Corfman)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:11:25 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1055866100.14949.python-list@python.org>
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3EEDEDBE.BCB56D6E@engcorp.com> <HGMnCw.5tM@arl.mil> <mailman.1055866100.14949.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HGot1G.Etn@arl.mil>

Steven Taschuk wrote:
> Quoth Brandon Corfman:
> 
>>1) Why can't this issue be solved by making Python like Lisp/Dylan in 
>>this regard? Make type declarations/range limitations on variables an 
>>optional thing. Flexibility if you need it, safety later if you're 
>>concerned about it.
> 
> 
> This was discussed in the now-defunct types-sig, if memory serves.
>     <http://www.python.org/sigs/types-sig/>
> I've never looked into it, but I imagine the archived discussions
> there might shed some light on why this hasn't been done.
> 
Wow, what a snarl those discussions are. I don't think I have enough 
time to track down all the reasons why static typing didn't make it, but 
the effort seemed to be reduced to checking interfaces as opposed to 
types, which seems very limited IMO.

> 
>>2) It also seems that the Python community wastes too much time on these 
>>explanations. A better answer (in my mind) would be to say that the 
>>Python environment is designed to make the development process far 
>>different than in a statically-typed language like C++.
> 
> 
> That seems like a good answer (though I don't think it replaces
> the other explanations in the thread so much as it augments or
> summarizes them).
> 
> As for us wasting our time with these explanations, well, the
> usual solution (such as it is) would be to write up a FAQ entry
> and direct future querents to it.  Would you like to write one?
> 
>   [...]

I could try. I'm unsure what the community consensus is though. Was my 
post really a true summary/augmentation of the discussion on type 
safety? I think the official answer is more like the following:
1) type errors are not all that common.
2) writing good unit tests will prevent type errors (as well as many 
others) since the errors will be discovered during development. 
Therefore, use a test-first methodology.
3) dynamic typing allows other dynamism/flexibility in the language, 
i.e. if a function behaves correctly for a known set of classes/data 
types, then the function can also allow other unknown classes/types to 
be used if the types exhibit compatible behavior.
4) Python has a mechanism for dealing with type errors: exceptions.

The counterarguments are:
1) Type errors are common, and even if they aren't the _most_ common, so 
what -- shouldn't the compiler/interpreter assist with this anyway?
2) Unit tests are fine, but developers can't always foresee all the 
possible test cases they will need.
3) Specifying types for variables is a lot simpler than the other 
checking alternatives (exceptions, unit tests).
4) Losing a few dynamic features and gaining increased safety is an 
acceptable tradeoff.

What did I miss?

I'm not sure that I would write the best FAQ on the subject: although I 
could write up the Python community consensus, I don't agree with it 
fully because I think the advocates of static typing make good points. I 
think optional static typing has clear benefits for safety in light of 
the alternatives.

I don't see what there is to fear in this regard either. Lisp/Dylan have 
done optional typing and range checking, and it improves safety as well 
as performance -- without changing the character of the languages or how 
they're used. I don't see why Python would be any different.

> 
>>of these combine to make Python a development environment that 
>>encourages functional programming _and all development should be done 
>>this way_. [...]
> 
> 
> (I don't think "functional programming" means what you think it
> means.  Functional programming is programming without
> side-effects.)
> 
Actually, yes, this is what I mean. The multiple variable assignment and 
multiple return values in Python allows for programming without 
side-effects. In addition, I think a functional programming style is the 
best style to use with command-prompt & unit testing. I think this is 
where I diverge from the mainstream on this discussion, because I'm 
influenced by my Lisp experience.

Brandon




From mirko-lists at zeibig.net  Wed Jun 18 04:37:53 2003
From: mirko-lists at zeibig.net (Mirko Zeibig)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:37:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: The beauty of Python
References: <yrEHa.7094$Hb.127911@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <slrnbf0971.1h1.mirko-lists@lxmize.int.cinetic.de>

In article <yrEHa.7094$Hb.127911 at news4.e.nsc.no>, Thomas Weholt wrote:
> I'm trying to promote Python as an elegant, easy-to-read and intuitive
> language at work and to my programming-buddies. I thought it would be nice
> to have a webpage with examples of the beauty of Python, showing small
> snippets of code solving real-world problems or tasks. If anybody has any
> such examples to offer, I'd be very gratefull. And if it turns out to be any
> interest for this in this group, I'll collect the source-snippets and put
> them on the net.

I have liked Python before, but http://diveintopython.org is IMHO a nice 
introduction for those with knowledge in other languages and may persuade
your colleagues to use Python.

Regards
Mirko



From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jun  8 05:43:54 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 11:43:54 +0200
Subject: Newbie: Python instance VB?
In-Reply-To: <_UCEa.57819$pR3.1234896@news1.tin.it>
References: <_UCEa.57819$pR3.1234896@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3EE3055A.3000303@ghaering.de>

Alex wrote:

> Hi All,
> Is possible create an instance of a Visual Basic (or VC++) DLL in a Python
> project?

A "VB DLL" is always a COM DLL. A "VC++" DLL can be a COM DLL.

> I need to integrate older systems written in other languages.

There's win32com from Mark Hammond that's used a lot for this purpose. 
win32com is part of the Pyhton for Windows Extensions: 
http://starship.python.net/crew/skippy/

If you ever need to interface a traditional (non-COM) DLL without 
writing glue code in C, there's ctypes from Thomas Heller.

-- Gerhard




From ed at membled.com  Mon Jun  9 02:49:33 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 09 Jun 2003 07:49:33 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054905915.13311.python-list@python.org> <l1d6hqkbx3.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <mailman.1054951993.18828.python-list@python.org> <l17k7yjg5a.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <tSudnREsGaCHsX-jXTWcoA@comcast.com> <l1r865h7vk.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <PbidnQB3TIQbEX-jXTWcpg@comcast.com> <l18yschlge.fsf@budvar.future-i.net> <m3ptlouoq6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <l14r2zg2yq.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) writes:

>>I've given several examples, a possible grammar rule (use simple_stmt)
>>and a semantics (the same as a named def).
>
>That would be an incompatible change. Currently
>
>x = lambda:2
>print x()
>
>prints "2".

Sorry, what I meant was, the semantics is the same as a named def for
the constructs that are added to the language.  Lambda-functions which
were legal before the change keep the same meaning.  This could be
implemented by adding an implicit 'return' if the body of the function
is an expression_stmt.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun 16 13:25:29 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:25:29 -0400
Subject: Loop from 'aaaa' to 'tttt' ?
References: <slrnberu4u.khj.lschaps@x11.informatik.uni-bremen.de>
Message-ID: <3EEDFD89.CD2677D8@engcorp.com>

Lars Schaps wrote:
> 
> In my program in need a loop from 'aaaa' over
> 'aaac', 'aaag', 'aaat', 'aaca' to 'tttt'.
> (Possible characters 'a', 'c', 'g' and 't')
> 
> One idea i had is to take a number n with the base of
> 4 and use
> 
> t= string.translate( '0123', 'acgt')
> string.translate( n, t)

>>> set = 'acgt'
>>> sets = [''.join(a,b,c,d) for a in set for b in set for c in set for d in set]
>>> sets
['aaaa', 'aaac', 'aaag', 'aaat', 'aaca', 'aacc', 'aacg', 'aact', 'aaga', 'aagc',
 'aagg', 'aagt', 'aata', 'aatc', 'aatg', 'aatt', 'acaa', 'acac', 'acag', 'acat',
...[snip]...
 'ttgg', 'ttgt', 'ttta', 'tttc', 'tttg', 'tttt']

:-)

By the way, if you haven't already, note that four sets of four values is the
same size as a byte (256 possibilities).  That might simplify some of what you're
doig as you could use bytes or strings (of bytes) to represent the sequences
and only translate to the above sets of four characters when you need to output
something.  Put the results of the above in a dictionary and it would be very
quick to do a lookup:

>>> baseMapping = dict(zip(range(len(sets)), sets))

(I don't think that last works in any version prior to 2.3, and I probably
got the syntax wrong for 2.3 anyway, but you might get the point. :-)

-Peter



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jun  6 10:01:19 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:01:19 +0200
Subject: list.index
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030606154116.009ed760@pop3.zonnet.nl>
Message-ID: <bbq6n1$b8h$1@main.gmane.org>

"delphiro" <delphiro at zonnet.nl> wrote:

> is this the easiest way to check for the existance of an item in a list?
> it looks a bit weird to check a for a listitem by using a try..except block
>
> (code background; if the item is found the colour should change
> else the colour that was already given is ok)
> [mycode]
> try:
>   x = self.selected_points.index( self.pointmarker )
>   colour = DEFAULT_SELECTED_POINT_COLOUR
> except ValueError:
>   pass
> [/mycode]

the usual way to do this is:

    if self.pointmarker in self.selected_points:
        colour = DEFAULT_SELECTED_POINT_COLOUR

you can also use "find", which does the same thing as "index" if
successful, but returns -1 if the item is not found.

    if self.selected_points.find(self.pointmarker) >= 0:
        colour = DEFAULT_SELECTED_POINT_COLOUR

</F>







From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jun 11 16:10:25 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 11 Jun 2003 15:10:25 -0500
Subject: PEP 318 - Function Modifier Syntax
In-Reply-To: <20030611080239845-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
References: <mailman.1055217438.10041.python-list@python.org>
	 <dd5454fb.0306101346.201331fc@posting.google.com>
	 <3EE65444.907E6D87@alcyone.com>
	 <mailman.1055283799.2307.python-list@python.org>
	 <3EE6646E.47555429@alcyone.com>
	 <mailman.1055286920.18421.python-list@python.org>
	 <3EE67C20.941FCA51@alcyone.com>
	 <20030611080239845-0400@braeburn.themorgue.org>
Message-ID: <1055362225.3310.921.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-06-11 at 07:02, Kevin Smith wrote:
> In <3EE67C20.941FCA51 at alcyone.com> Erik Max Francis  wrote:
> > A fair point.  So if you were able to choose any keyword for this task
> > that you wished, which would you choose?
> 
> I had considered the word 'using' instead of 'as'.  Someone else in this 
> thread also suggested that.  Then the the following def:
> 
>     def foo(self) using classmethod, synchronized(lock):
>         blah, blah, blah
> 
> reads as:
> 
>     "Define [a function] foo using [the behaviors of] classmethod and 
> synchronized"

It's doesn't match the implementation, though (which I think is bad,
because I think the implementation is simpler than what you describe).

This implies that functions know about what it means to be a
classmethod, or to be synchronized.  They don't -- classmethod knows how
to take a function and create a classmethod object, synchronized knows
how to take a function and wrap it with locks.  The original function is
no longer accessible.

  Ian






From none at none.com  Fri Jun  6 21:53:26 2003
From: none at none.com (Iwan van der Kleyn)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 01:53:26 +0000
Subject: Integrating PHP & Python through a light-weight rpc mechanism?
Message-ID: <3ee12967$0$134$e4fe514c@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl>

Hi there,
At my company we've build a web-based cms/e-commerce framework over the 
years which is quite succesfull from a commercial perspective. It is 
complelely implemented in PHP and, though very fast, its internals are 
totally obfuscated and it has become nearly impossible to maintain. 
Replacing it is just too expensive, so the option we are considering is 
  to gradually trim back PHP to the presentational tier and to start 
using another language/platform for the middle/data tiers. Java then 
seems to be the obvious choice. However, considering productiveity 
levels I can reach with Python compared to Java, the average skill-set 
among the developers and just plain stubborness :-) I'm reviewing the 
possibility to  have Python as the target platform for the back-end.

But then, how do presentational and back-end tiers communicate? RPC 
mechanisms like Corba come to mind. But that seems to be very "heavy 
weight" and using Corba in Python/PHP is a rather involved affair. XML 
based mechanisms (SOAP, XML-RPC, ReST) are more easy but offer their own 
set of challenges (not the least the overhead of XML). You would expect 
that there would be some light-weight RPC protocol available, with the 
simplicity of XML-RPC and the compactness of a binary protocol. But I 
haven't found a suitable ptotocol. Is there any to be found which can be 
used from Python and PHP?

Regards,

Iwan




From ten.sardna at newoB.com  Thu Jun  5 21:17:14 2003
From: ten.sardna at newoB.com (Bowen)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 21:17:14 -0400
Subject: LANGUAGE QUESTION???
In-Reply-To: <slrnbdvjtq.lp.philh@cabalamat.uklinux.net>
References: <8dcf2300.0306040159.118c24e8@posting.google.com> <bbl9ao$mnr$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> <slrnbdvjtq.lp.philh@cabalamat.uklinux.net>
Message-ID: <bboq2q$bpu9n$1@ID-159243.news.dfncis.de>

phil hunt wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:17:46 -0400, Reginald Blue <Reginald_Blue at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>Pupppy Wizzard wrote:
>>
>>>Hi. I am an old school programmer looking to modernize my skill set. I
>>>want to focus on one new language. Should I choose:
>>>
>>>VB
>>>VB.net
>>>C#
>>>C++
>>>Python
>>>Smalltalk
>>>J#
>>>JScript.net
>>>or Java?
>>
>>(Yes, I know this is a troll, but I just wanted to get this in):
>>
>>Hi.  I'm an old school woodworker looking to modernize my skill set.  I want
>>to focus on one new tool.  Should I choose:
>>
>>Hammer
>>Screwdriver (phillips)
>>Screwdriver (flat head)
>>Chisel
>>Rasp
>>File
>>Saw
>>Socket Wrench
>>Monkey Wrench
>>or Box Wrench?
> 
> 
> A hammer. 
> 
> A hammer is the best tool by far, we should use it for everything, 
> and throw away all our screwdrivers.

Ah, you can hammer in screws... albeit not very well.

-- 
--Bowen--




From uwe at oss4u.com  Mon Jun  9 17:37:10 2003
From: uwe at oss4u.com (Uwe C. Schroeder)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 14:37:10 -0700
Subject: py2exe and dynamic modules
References: <ve9ldqsa3h1d9d@corp.supernews.com> <3EE4D985.B091FA88@engcorp.com> <ve9ne08860r10a@corp.supernews.com> <3EE4EB9C.8533EE25@engcorp.com> <ve9sl37is8jp87@corp.supernews.com> <3EE4F3FF.9B3B31D1@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <ve9vg7h1lp319f@corp.supernews.com>

well, not for me

my code looks like

<in some class>
        sys.path.append('c:\\documents and settings\\ucs\\ibcache\\modules')

< in some other class>

        def loadModule(self,_pref):
            _mod=__import__(_pref)
            m=getattr(_mod,_pref)
            self._modules[_pref]=m(self,self._perspective)
        

The modules are all the same: filename == classname inside.
So file xxx.py contains a class xxx
This code works fine without py2exe
With it it fails
File "imputil.pyc", line 106, in _import_hook
ImportError: No module name wecgla

(wecgla is actually the name and _pref in the above sample has that value)
My sys.path is set correctly ('','C:\\distdirectoy','c:\\documents and
settings\\ucs\\ibcache\\modules')

so something is different to your example.

BTW: your example doesn't work either.
Can it be py2exe import can't handle spaces in filenames ???

my test is

import sys
sys.path.append('c:\\documents and settings\\ucs\\ibcache\\modules')
try:
        __import__('wecgla')
except:
        raise

print 'OK'


Compiled with py2exe using:

from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe

setup(name="Test",
      scripts=['imptest.py'],
      )

and on the command line

python impsetup.py py2exe


any ideas ?
this is python 2.2.1 on win2k



Peter Hansen wrote:

> "Uwe C. Schroeder" wrote:
>> 
>> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> 
>> > Run imptest.exe from a directory other than c:/temp:
>> >
>> > "test OK" results.
>> >
>> > Looks like it works...  (I'm doing this test first... what did I do
>> > wrong this time?  :-)
>> 
>> :-)) You knew the path up front. But I'll probably do just that and
>> :install
>> the modules in a fixed path, although I don't really like it. But I guess
>> it's easier than fiddling around with the  py2exe import stuff.
> 
> Don't make it so hard on yourself!  Here's version two, without a
> hardcoded path:
> 
> import sys
> sys.path.append(sys.argv[1])
> filename = sys.argv[2]
> try:
>     mod = __import__(filename)
>     print mod.test()
> except:
>     print 'test failed!'
> 
> 
> Still works... ;-)
> 
> -Peter

-- 
        UC

--
Open Source Solutions 4U, LLC   2570 Fleetwood Drive
Phone:  +1 650 872 2425         San Bruno, CA 94066
Cell:   +1 650 302 2405         United States
Fax:    +1 650 872 2417



From yaipa at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 26 02:19:27 2003
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 23:19:27 -0700
Subject: Second Edition of "Python Programming on Win32"
References: <2de245.0306251316.2b8db85a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0306252219.474c3091@posting.google.com>

> Just curious if there was a second edition of "Python Programming on
> Win32" in the works. 

Send your posts to O'Reilly, it will only come if enough people complain.
I've done my bit.

cheers,

  --Alan

ebodine at hotmail.com (Erick) wrote in message news:<2de245.0306251316.2b8db85a at posting.google.com>...
> Just curious if there was a second edition of "Python Programming on
> Win32" in the works.  If so, may I suggest a chapter covering
> AcitveDirectory/ADSI/Exchange or some combination thereof.
> 
> --ERick



From nosp at m.needed  Fri Jun  6 09:35:20 2003
From: nosp at m.needed (Steve McAllister)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:35:20 +0200
Subject: id(a) == id(b) and a is not b --> bug?
In-Reply-To: <m3r867yaxj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1054855286.16163.python-list@python.org> <m3r867yaxj.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bbq5df$9nm$1@alto.univ-mlv.fr>

> If any kind of computation is performed in the arguments, the property
> you assume may not hold.

And exactly why is {
'foo' is 'foo' is 'foo' is 'foo'
} always true?  This is quite surprising compared to {
[] is []
} ...
Why are not new string literals dynamically created?




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jun 26 20:45:01 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 00:45:01 GMT
Subject: always fill out complete window
References: <3EFB4C9F.8020709@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <hsMKa.328295$3n5.321405@news2.central.cox.net>

"Tom" <llafba at gmx.net> wrote in message news:3EFB4C9F.8020709 at gmx.net...
> Hi folks,
>
> I have a splitter window in a GUI that I built. I added a TextCtrl
> window to the right side of my splitter window. Because I don't want to
> add anything else to this side of the window it would be great if the
> TextCtrl window could fill out the complete side. I couldn't find the
> appropriate command or configuration to resize the TextCtrl window
> automatically no matter what I do with my mainframe window.
>

It would help if you told us which GUI you were using (Tkinter, wxPython,
PyQT, etc.) and perhaps posted a little sample code to gice us the idea.

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From llafba at gmx.net  Mon Jun  9 12:11:20 2003
From: llafba at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 18:11:20 +0200
Subject: cut off \n
References: <3EE4ACCD.70000@gmx.net> <3EE4B0EC.43C882D6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3EE4B1A8.3000801@gmx.net>

Thanks guys!
Exactly what I needed.
Regards, Tom

Alan Kennedy wrote:

>Tom,
>
>Try this
>
>  
>
>>>>s = "This is a line with a newline at the end\n"
>>>>s.strip()
>>>>        
>>>>
>"This is a line with a newline at the end"
>  
>
>>>>t = "This is a line without a newline at the end"
>>>>t.strip()
>>>>        
>>>>
>"This is a line without a newline at the end"
>
>More info about .strip() and the related functions .lstrip() and .rstrip() can
>be found here
>
>http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-string.html
>
>As well as the ".strip" function in the string module, each string instance
>supports the .strip() method as well, as can be seen above.
>
>regards,
>
>  
>




From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jun 14 09:48:46 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 14:48:46 +0100
Subject: Documentation Tool & UML
References: <a35b36be.0306120912.40bf916f@posting.google.com> <bcbb1j$ho7$1@pith.uoregon.edu>
Message-ID: <871xxwhirl.fsf@pobox.com>

"Yan Weng" <yweng at cs.uoregon.edu> writes:
[...]
> A much easier way is getting a java based UML tools and using javacc + its
> python script to generate python code. But you have to know java before you
> do this.
[...]

"its [javacc's] python script"?  What's that, and how does it let you
generate Python code from UML?

Not that I can think of any way that generating Python code from UML
is useful... (though I remember seeing an AW book about *executable*
UML recently, which seems bizarre -- anybody have any wisdom about the
purpose / utility of this?).


John



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Thu Jun 19 21:57:49 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 02:57:49 +0100
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3EEDEDBE.BCB56D6E@engcorp.com> <HGMnCw.5tM@arl.mil> <un0gg6ve3.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <873ci7o7c0.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <yfsllvx7boi.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:

> David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> writes:
> 
> > Brandon Corfman <bcorfman at amsaa.army.mil> writes:
> > 
> > > I think the problem is that a C++/Java programmer regards the Python
> > > command prompt as little more than a calculator or a place to type
> > > "prog.main()". I know I did at first.
> > 
> > Ever try to write a class with more than 2 methods at the
> > command-line?  After screwing it up several times I always revert to
> > emacs <wink>.
> 
> I agree with this.  I don't know what all the fuss is about with the
> interactive prompt. 

Maybe you're just not using it in the most effective manner (possibly because
your problems don't profit that much from it).

>  I certainly do use it, quite frequently, but
> don't see a huge difference here between Python and statically-typed
> compiled languages (especially given a good IDE -- like unix + emacs
> etc.).

What good IDEs do you have in mind? The only ones I've ever seen are for
dynamically typed languages such as smalltalk.

If you essentially just emulate write-compile-run cycles with python you might
not notice that much of a difference to a statically typed mainstream language
such as C++ or Java.

But believe me, there is a *huge* difference between being for example able to
interactively explore and modify some complicated data or code and not being
able to do so.

> 
> Maybe only me and David make lots of mistakes at the interactive prompt ;-)

The idea is not to write the bulk of your code in an interactive prompt -- the
idea is to write the bulk of your code with your editor/IDE whatever and then
have it evaluated in a running interactive session upon keypress. If something
goes wrong the debugger should automatically pop up and go to the matching
source code line. You can than look at and interact with live objects in the
debugging session to find out what's going wrong, fix the piece of code in
your editor and evaluate it (and not the whole program) again. If you want to
see or edit the source code for some object it only takes a single short
command. Writing test code also becomes much more fun.


'as



From thomas.nuecker at web.de  Tue Jun 24 04:34:12 2003
From: thomas.nuecker at web.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Thomas_N=FCcker?=)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 01:34:12 -0700
Subject: 1== 1 is False?
References: <20030620160734.2ba89f30.delphiro@zonnet.nl> <mailman.1056119630.21165.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <4b66f6d2.0306240034.23b264@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1056119630.21165.python-list at python.org>...
> delphiro wrote:
> > [...] If I print out the values I get something like 2.260212 <= 2.260212 and 2.260212 >= 2.260212 is NOT true.
> > 
> > What's wrong?
> 
> Your float values might not be what they look like.
> 
> It makes a difference wether you use str() or repr() to convert them to 
> strings, for example:
> 
> #v+
>  >>> 2/3.0
>  0.66666666666666663
>  >>> print 2/3.0
> 0.666666666667
> #v-
> 
> -- Gerhard

What do i have to do, if i need "more" exactness? 
I have for example the problem with the representation of 2.3 or 2.7:
>>> 2.3
2.2999999999999998
>>> 2.7
2.7000000000000002
This is a really strange behaviour!

Thomas



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jun 14 11:19:28 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 16:19:28 +0100
Subject: GUI
References: <3EE9E9CE.6020004@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <87el1wfzzz.fsf@pobox.com>

Tom <llafba at gmx.net> writes:

> I heard that it is possible to program GUI's with Python. I have to
> make some simple executable programs with a GUI. They should run on
> Windows. Unfortunately I am not very experienced with Python. That's
> why I would appreciate suggestions for an easy to use software. :-)
[...]

PyQt + Qt designer.  Qt designer is quite similar to the VB GUI
builder, I think (not sure about VBA), but boa constructor for wx does
look similar (from a glance at a screenshot).

I've *never* heard anybody claim that wx is easier to use or better
designed than Qt, though.  The only significant advantage of wx over
Qt, AFAIK, is that it's free on the Mac and Windows -- but there is a
non-commercial Qt 2.x version (make sure you get the latest version of
PyQt that works with the non-commercial Qt/win release before you
start).


John



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jun  6 16:29:48 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:29:48 -0700
Subject: id(a) == id(b) and a is not b --> bug?
References: <mailman.1054855286.16163.python-list@python.org> <3EDFDDBC.673E0F25@alcyone.com> <mailman.1054928666.1698.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EE0F9BC.1C25450E@alcyone.com>

Gerrit Holl wrote:

> Ah, thanks for this explanation!
> 
> BTW, is there any way I could have found out about this myself, expect
> reading the source (which I can't because of lack of knowledge)?

Some clever Google Groups searches might have come up with it, but it
might have been difficult.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Maybe soul mates exist / After all
\__/  Des'ree



From hannibalkannibal at yahoo.no  Sun Jun 22 10:02:39 2003
From: hannibalkannibal at yahoo.no (Eirik)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:02:39 +0200
Subject: Tkinter problem
References: <kueJa.1349$os2.18711@news2.e.nsc.no> <mailman.1056276938.31254.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2GiJa.1397$os2.19637@news2.e.nsc.no>

"Chad Netzer" <cnetzer at sonic.net> skrev i melding
news:mailman.1056276938.31254.python-list at python.org...
>
> > How can I make it wait until I press the button before the message in
the
> > label comes?
>
> By making a function that sets the text, and then passing that function
> to the button 'command' option.   NOTE - you pass the function to the
> 'command' option, you do NOT call the function and pass the results to
> the 'command' option.  ie:
>
> import sys
> from Tkinter import *
>
> def my_test_callback():
>     global root
>     root.t.set("Test-Text")
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     root = Tk()
>     root.t = StringVar()
>
>     root.l1 = Label(root, textvariable = root.t)
>     root.b1 = Button(root, text = "Button", command = my_test_callback)
>     root.bE = Button(root, text = "End", command = sys.exit)
>
>     root.l1.grid()
>     root.b1.grid()
>     root.bE.grid()
>
>     root.mainloop()
>
>
>
> If you haven't seen it already, I recommend:
>
> http://home.att.net/~stephen_ferg/thinking_in_tkinter/
>
> --
> Chad Netzer <cnetzer at sonic dot net>
>
>

What does the "if __name__=='__main__':" mean? I do not fully understand
this example.





From francois.lepoutre at seriatim.com  Thu Jun 19 07:43:34 2003
From: francois.lepoutre at seriatim.com (Francois Lepoutre)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 04:43:34 -0700
Subject: Is python good for making database work short?
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6edec4a.0306190343.527e84d6@posting.google.com>

stevesusenet at yahoo.com (Steve) wrote in message news:<6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095 at posting.google.com>...

>A coworker who is a foxpro nut did all of this in about 3 lines of
code.

>I was very impressed, and I plan to learn foxpro since the job has
>legacy apps written in it.

>However I was wondering if python could have made this job this easy.
>Does python make manipulating databases and data short work

We use both python and foxpro (the name of the current version it
currently is VFP8) and python for db matters. The vfp stuff is used
for win32 c/s interactions and python for web development (via
modpython).

I love both tools. They offers a similar feeling because of the superb
interpreter technology. Both have an enthusiastic user-community. But
one is a closed-source MS tool with very limited marketing clout. The
other one has its future upfront.

Foxpro "shines" at manipulating data in interactive mode because of
its local cursor engine. Nothing comes close in terms of ad hoc data
manipulation for "non repeatable routines" or complex stuff.

On the other hand, if you have to automate simple database tasks such
as cleaning data, a combination of python regex and mxodbc/mxdatetime
man be a great help.

The combination vfp+python easily beats perl+java in terms of
productivity. But it may not be an easy combo to sell...

Francois



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Thu Jun 19 14:00:09 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 19:00:09 +0100
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com> <mailman.1055919632.16586.python-list@python.org> <rfVHa.105923$pR3.2320136@news1.tin.it> <yfs65n39z72.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <just-0D60BB.18081218062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <yfsof0v880w.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <2259b0e2.0306190831.63d42265@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <yfswufi6j86.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:

> Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<yfsof0v880w.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk>...
> > Maybe I'm a bit blinkered, but right now I can't see how
> > 
> >     dict(foo=1, bar='sean')
> > 
> > is so much better/more convinient than
> > 
> >     {'foo':1, bar:'sean'}
> > 
> > that it justifies forcing people to learn a new redundant and less general
> > dictionary creation syntax that at least hinders customizing dictionary
> > instantiation like in
> > 
> >   counts = dict(default=0)
> >   for item in seq:
> >       counts[item] += 1
> > 
> > To get the first behavior you have to write a 1-line function, for the second
> > you have to subclass (and presumably incur a noticeable performance penalty).
> > Also the first precludes adding further constructor options, while the second
> > doesn't.
> > 
> > 
> > 'as
> 
> I do think you have a point here. Nevertheless, I wonder about the
> "noticeable performance penality" due to subclassing. I tried this
> dictionary:
> 
> class mydict(dict):
>     def __new__(cls,d,default=0): 
>         #absolutely trivial, doing nothing with the default argument
>         return super(mydict,cls).__new__(cls,d)
> 
> d=dict([(i,str(i)) for i in range(1000)])
> m=mydict([(i,str(i)) for i in range(1000)])
> 
> And I have measured the access times for 'd' and 'm' with timeit. There is no
> noticeable difference for getting a value (<1%); setting a value is slower
> by a 7-8%. Not a big deal. I get more or less the same numbers for bigger
> or smaller dictionaries. Nevertheless, I haven't tried many dictionaries,
> maybe there are cases where the performance is worse.

Well, your timings are not all that meaningful because your code does nothing
and you only instance creation and not item access (which obviously also needs
to be overridden with python code). Anywhere, here is a real DefaultDict class
and some ad hoc timings, which show *10* fold slowdown for creation and 4 fold
for item access (the copy.copy call seems harmless performance-wise).

class DefaultDict(dict):
    r"""Dictionary with a default value for unknown keys."""
    def __init__(self, default, noCopies=False):
        self.default = default
        if noCopies:
            self.noCopies = True
        else:
            self.noCopies = False
    def __getitem__(self, key):
        r"""If `self.noCopies` is `False` (default), a **copy** of
           `self.default` is returned by default.
        """              
        if key in self: return self.get(key)
        if self.noCopies: return self.setdefault(key, self.default)
        else:             return self.setdefault(key, copy.copy(self.default))

timings for python2.2

In [58]: timeCall(nTimes, 10000, dict)
Out[58]: 0.018522977828979492

In [59]: timeCall(nTimes, 10000, DefaultDict, 1)
Out[59]: 0.11231005191802979

In [47]: timeCall(nTimes, 10000, {'foo':0}.__getitem__, 'foo')
Out[47]: 0.012811064720153809

In [48]: timeCall(nTimes, 10000, DefaultDict(1).__getitem__, 'foo')
Out[48]: 0.045480012893676758

In [65]: timeCall(nTimes, 10000, DefaultDict(1,0).__getitem__, 'foo')
Out[65]: 0.04657900333404541

> 
> If somebody wants to experiment and report here few numbers, it would be
> interesting.
> 
>                                                    Michele

What are your results for instance creation with this class? Maybe 2.3 is
noticeably faster?


'as



From husam at sci.kun.nl  Wed Jun 18 13:02:24 2003
From: husam at sci.kun.nl (root)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:02:24 +0200
Subject: Newbie: Where to start with cgi?
References: <bcni8a$8tl$1@odysseus.uci.kun.nl> <1147e466.0306171942.44e6042e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF09B20.7050408@sci.kun.nl>

> Take a look at mod_python.

Thanks for the replies,

I went through webware and mod_python and I think they are indeed the 
stuf that I need. But which one should I choose? I really don't know. 
Any way, I started with mod_python this morning and the test scripts 
worked find by displaying "hello world". But, when I followed the 
tutorials on modpython.org I got stuck at a nother test script provided 
by the tutrial. After 4 hours of trying still no go because the test 
scripts are either don't work, or misunderstood by me.

These are the configurations:

/etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<Directory /var/www/html>
     AddHandler python-program .py
     PythonAuthenHandler form
     PythonHandler form
     PythonDebug On
     AuthType Basic
     AuthName "Restricted Area"
     require valid-user
</Directory>


/var/www/html/form.py:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#!/usr/bin/python

from mod_python import apache


def handler(req):
     req.content_type = "text/html"
     req.send_http_header()
     req.write("Welcome ")
     return apache.OK

def authenhandler(req):

     user = req.user
     pw = req.get_basic_auth_pw()

     if user == "newbie" and pw == "python":
         return apache.OK
     else:
         return apache.HTTP_UNAUTHORIZED



/var/www/html/form1.html:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<html>
<head>
   <title>Form1</title>

   <meta http-equiv="content-type"
  content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">
</head>
   <body>
Name:<input type="submit" name="Login">
       <br>
     <br>
  <br>
</body>
</html>



When form1.html is called the server generates this error:

Server error!

The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete your 
request. Either the server is overloaded or there was an error in a CGI 
script.

If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster
Error 500

     localhost
     Wed 18 Jun 2003 06:58:07 PM CEST
     Apache/2.0.40 (Red Hat Linux)






From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jun 26 08:38:48 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:38:48 GMT
Subject: Standard ways to get union, intersection, difference of lists?
References: <mailman.1056620804.9083.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sPBKa.323303$3n5.24366@news2.central.cox.net>

"Mickel Gr?nroos" <mickel at csc.fi> wrote in message
news:mailman.1056620804.9083.python-list at python.org...
Thanks Gerrit, Eric and Paul, the sets module is exactly what I need!
I'm still running Python 2.2.2 though, so I will need to upgrade.


Not necessarily: I believe you can just pick up the sets module from CVS and
run it under 2.2+.

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Mon Jun 23 15:13:28 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 12:13:28 -0700
Subject: asyncore and (missing) timeout
In-Reply-To: <bd731h$bkn$1@mephisto.sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr>
References: <bd731h$bkn$1@mephisto.sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr>
Message-ID: <200306231213.28625.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Monday 23 June 2003 07:32 am, Pierre HANSER wrote:
> I'm trying to use asyncore with some timeout in the poll loop
> to not use all my cpu.
>
> The problem I have is that operationnal sockets always return
> immediatly to a select with write, as you CAN write immediatly on them.

A _new_ socket will be writable, yes, but after you write data to it that may 
not be the case. Either way, you only call select/poll on it if you are 
_interested_ in writing to it. In asyncore terms, you return true from 
writable if and only if you have data that you want to write.

> I've tried a minor modification:

You won't need to modify asyncore to do what you're trying to do.

> The solution of returning a significant value in "writable" function
> is a bit cumbersome as you have to manage there the fact you will
> want to write something one day...

By definition, the readable and writable methods are _supposed_ to return 
values that make sense as asyncore drives its behavior off those values. The 
high CPU problem you're having goes away if you return values that truly 
reflect the state of your app.

Also, I better include the standard "have you tried Twisted yet?" response - 
many people seem to like it (although there is terrific educational value in 
getting your asyncore-based program working ;-) ).

HTH,
-Dave




From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Tue Jun 17 11:47:38 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 16:47:38 +0100
Subject: Loop from 'aaaa' to 'tttt' ?
References: <slrnberu4u.khj.lschaps@x11.informatik.uni-bremen.de> <yyrj65n5an9r.fsf@pc156.maths.bris.ac.uk> <NCBHa.188975$g92.3827341@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <yfswufkln8l.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:

Just a small correction (since one of the typos is a bit confusing):
 
> def codonStrings(lenghtOfStrings, codons='acgt'):
  def codonStrings(lengthOfStrings, codons='acgt'):

>     base = len(codons)-1
>     result = lengthOfStrings * [codons[0]]
      result = lengthOfStrings * [0]
>     while 1:
>         curindex = lenghtOfStrings - 1
          curindex = lengthOfStrings - 1
>         while curindex >= 0 and result[curindex] >= base:
>             result[curindex] = 0
>             curindex -= 1
>         if curindex < 0:
>             break
>         result[curindex] += 1
>         yield ''.join( [codons[i] for i in result] )

'as



From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Sun Jun 22 22:51:04 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:51:04 +1200
Subject: Windows - getting Tkinter or wxPython window handle?
Message-ID: <bd5ofv$pekdg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

On Windows, is there any chance of getting hold of an
MFC window handle for a Tkinter or wxPython window?
If so, how?

(I'm investigating the feasibility of wrapping a library
which needs such a handle.)

Thanks,

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From abc at attbi.com  Sat Jun 21 01:39:15 2003
From: abc at attbi.com (FooBar)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 05:39:15 GMT
Subject: Find a substring withing a string...
Message-ID: <MPG.195db98e90b83bb49899fe@netnews.attbi.com>

	OK I will be the first to admit that I am VERY new to Pythin and 
know little of the syntax of this language.  I want to perform the 
simple task of testing to see if a substring exists within string.  I 
think the syntax is find(sting,substring) and the return is -1 if the 
substirng is not found otherwise the start position of the substring in 
the string.  is this correct?

	Moreover is this code totally screwed?


takeaction = find(stringvar,'LITERALSUB')
if takeaction != -1:
    action_to_take_if_found
else:
    action_tp_take_if_not_found


	Any help with this is appreciated as I am a total DFU when it 
comes to this for now anyway...


Thanks,
DB




-- 



http://www.TheHappyCat.com
Please Help the Unwanted and Homeless Animals!






From husam at sci.kun.nl  Fri Jun  6 09:35:43 2003
From: husam at sci.kun.nl (root)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:35:43 +0200
Subject: Where is MySQLdb
Message-ID: <3EE098AF.9030808@sci.kun.nl>

Hi,
I'm trying to learn mysql with python, but python says it can not find 
the module. I looked at the web site of python.org, but couldn't find 
any refernce to mysql in the module index.

Thanks in advance.




From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Jun  3 19:32:10 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 23:32:10 GMT
Subject: Pythonwin toolbar dynamic buttons combobox
In-Reply-To: <Cs1Da.16505$pK2.22636@news.indigo.ie>
References: <Cs1Da.16505$pK2.22636@news.indigo.ie>
Message-ID: <_daDa.4084$7E.47088@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Ilariu Raducan wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> In "Programming Windows with MFC, Second Edition" Chapter 12, Toolbars 
> is described a method to add a ComboBox to a toolbar.
> 
> Did anybody tried that in Pythonwin?
> 
> How do I create buttons dynamic, at runtime?
> What about ComboBox?
> 

You should look through the pywin.demos and pywin.Demos and pywin.tools 
directory - these contain useful snipped, including both of these concepts.

Mark.




From jfontain at free.fr  Wed Jun 25 04:44:29 2003
From: jfontain at free.fr (Jean-Luc Fontaine)
Date: 25 Jun 2003 01:44:29 -0700
Subject: ANNOUNCE: tclpython-3.1
Message-ID: <4244613b.0306250044.10d10f36@posting.google.com>

### CHANGES ###

--- version 3.1 ---
- added Tcl stubs support (thanks to Georgios Petasis)
- removed non public Tcl namespace code in C source
- generated and tested on a Red Hat 9 system with gcc 3.3

### README ###

tclpython version 3.1: a Python package for Tcl

This package allows the execution of Python (version 2.2 or above) code
from a Tcl interpreter, as in:


    package require tclpython
    set interpreter [python::interp new]
    $interpreter exec {print("Hello World")}
    $interpreter eval 3/2.0
    python::interp delete $interpreter


You can actually create several Python interpreters this way, if the
tclpython package was linked against a Python library compiled with
threads support, otherwise only 1 Python interpreter can exist at a
time.

This library is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU Library General Public License as
published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the
License, or (at your option) any later version.

This library is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

###

you may find it now at my homepage:

http://jfontain.free.fr/tclpython-3.1.tar.gz
http://jfontain.free.fr/tclpython-3.1-1.i386.rpm
http://jfontain.free.fr/tclpython-3.1-1.spec
http://jfontain.free.fr/tclpython.htm

Jean-Luc Fontaine (http://jfontain.free.fr/)



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Jun 12 03:54:05 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:54:05 +0100
Subject: isFloat: Without Exception-Handling
References: <ama6nt$n6i$06$1@news.t-online.com>
 <pan.2002.09.18.11.40.50.766802.29524@presidency.com>
 <%82i9.1366$bh1.943@fe03>
 <pan.2002.09.18.13.18.06.319534.29524@presidency.com>
 <v_UFa.2709$Mi3.161728669@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <UnwUeIAdGD6+EwhK@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <v_UFa.2709$Mi3.161728669 at newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>, Byron
Morgan <lazypointer at yahoo.com> writes
>This works:
>
>import operator
>def isFloat(f):
>    if not operator.isNumberType(f):
>        return 0
>    if f % 1:
>        return 1
>    else:
>        return 0
>
>>>> isFloat(3.1)
>1
>>>> isFloat('a')
>0
>>>> isFloat(12345)
>0
..... with 2.2.3 I see 
>>> isFloat('a')
0
>>> isFloat(3.0)
0
>>> isFloat(3.1)
1
>>>

so isFloat isn't testing the type, but the value. I suggest

>>> from types import FloatType
>>> from operator import isNumberType
>>> def isFloat(f):
...     return isNumberType(f) and (type(f) is FloatType) or 0
... 
-- 
Robin Becker



From p at ulmcnett.com  Wed Jun 18 21:48:10 2003
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:48:10 -0700
Subject: Is python good for making database work short?
In-Reply-To: <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095@posting.google.com>
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200306181847.30914.p@ulmcnett.com>

Steve writes:

> Today at work I got an impressive demonstration.
> There was a database mess that had to be cleaned up fast.

> A coworker who is a foxpro nut did all of this in about 3 lines of
> code.

> I was very impressed, and I plan to learn foxpro since the job has
> legacy apps written in it.

FoxPro shines at manipulating data. There is no finer tool for that purpose.


> However I was wondering if python could have made this job this easy.
> Does python make manipulating databases and data short work?

I am a FoxPro developer switching to Python. Python offers a good DB 
specification and a bunch of modules to access any kind of backend data. 
Python also offers good basic types to store cursor-like views of the data 
(a list of dictionaries would provide a recordset-like object, where you 
can reference the fields by name).


> Part of the program we had to make also required doing many queries to
> check the integrity of the data, and if it wasn't kosher, store the
> bad data to a table for examination later.  In foxpro it was one line
> of code to save the query into a table.  In java it would have been
> another trek like the one I described above.

Yes all this stuff is built-in to fox, because of fox's xbase 
local-cursor-engine.


> Java is great for a lot of stuff, but the jdbc is basically just a
> pipe into the database to pass sql through with a lot of gymnastics to
> get the sql into, massaged and out of the pipe.
>
> Anyway, I would love to have an open source, multiplatform tool that
> could match foxpro in ease of database manipulation.

Nothing can match FoxPro in data manipulation. But FoxPro is proprietary, 
closed-source and single-platform. And it can be killed at any time 
whenever Microsoft decides to.


> Is python it?

Python is my choice for a new primary development language. I'm missing 
FoxPro's native cursor engine and XBase dialect, but am finding that Python 
can handle everything, and I'm also finding that I think I'll like Python's 
way better for the long term.

Python shares FoxPro's flexibility in many ways: no need to declare 
variables, developer-choice to do oop or procedural programming, 
developer-choice to use local database or backend db server, rapid 
prototyping, live command interpreter, etc. etc.

I'm not a Pythonista yet but think that that status isn't as far away as I 
might have thought when I started down this road 6 or so weeks ago....


-- 
Paul McNett




From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jun  3 22:05:55 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 04:05:55 +0200
Subject: [ANN] PySQLite 0.4.3 released
In-Reply-To: <20030603030322.GA2619@lilith.ghaering.test>
References: <20030603030322.GA2619@lilith.ghaering.test>
Message-ID: <20030604020554.GA31209@lilith.ghaering.test>

(Un)fortunately, it was discovered that 0.4.2 introduced a new bug: you
couldn't commit/rollback if you haven't done anything in a transaction. So
you'd have to execute at least one SQL command.

I consider this a serious enough bug to release 0.4.3 immediately.

Full changelog since 0.4.2 follows:


2003-06-04 01:27  ghaering

	* _sqlite.c (tags: REL_0_4_3):

	I have a new email address.
	
2003-06-04 01:18  ghaering

	* README (tags: REL_0_4_3):

	I have a new email address.
	
2003-06-04 01:15  ghaering

	* sqlite/main.py (tags: REL_0_4_3):

        The transaction handling optimization introduced a bug: connections
        couldn't be commited or rolled back when no cursor.execute() has been
        done on them, yet.  This fixes the bug.
	
2003-06-04 01:13  ghaering

	* setup.py, debian/copyright, sqlite/__init__.py (utags:
	REL_0_4_3):

	- Bump version number to 0.4.3.
	- I have a new email address.
	
2003-06-04 01:09  ghaering

	* test/transaction_tests.py (tags: REL_0_4_3):

        Tests that check if it's possible to commit()/rollback() when no actual
        SQL commands have been sent, yet. This bug was introduced by a
        transaction handling optimization.
	
2003-06-03 08:33  jrosdahl

	* debian/: changelog, control (utags: REL_0_4_3):

        Updated Debian package files to match those in Debian package
        python-sqlite 0.4.2-1.




From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Jun 19 14:51:35 2003
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:51:35 -0400
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <mailman.1055882854.8200.python-list@python.org> <xqxn0gfpm3j.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
 <mailman.1055972373.21609.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <qnkel1poq88.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote:

>> > > > >     >> 3) Discovering filter() and map().
>> > > > >     >> 4) Fortifying classes with __setattr__() and friends.
>> > > > >     >> 4.5) Leaving if:, elif:, and else: on their
>> > > > >     >>      scorn or deprecation.
>> > > > >     5) Discovering list comprehensions and then
>> > > > > dumping filter() and map().
>> > > >       6) Belive that "self" is not ugly
>> > > 7) You start writing a simple script and when you are 
>> > > finished you realize that you have a library
>> > 7.a) You finish writing a simple script, and realize it's going
>> >      to be an excellent library, and redo it again in a library
>> >      form, which is called by a separate script.  (*GUILTY*)
>
> 42) You discovered a useful X tool called 'import' by accidently
>     writing a python script with '#!/bin/sh' as the shebang.
>
> This really happend :)
> $ whatis import
> import               (1)  - capture some or all of an X server screen and save the image to a file
>
>
> 170) You go on pilgrimage to the Centrum voor Wiskunde en
>      Informatica (Stichting Mathematisch Centrum) in the
>      Kruislaan; I pass it on my way to the supermarket :P
>      
> 682) You think Python has too many curly braces
>
> 2730) You're Dutch
>
> 10922) When you end each mail using Timbot.message.end(...), returning:
>
> 43690-is-the-next-number-using-my-beatiful-list-comprehension-ly -
> y'rs t^Hgerrit

Sloane's A084180?
http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=A084180

>>> [ (4**n-1)*2/3 for n in range(1,10) ]
[2, 10, 42, 170, 682, 2730, 10922, 43690, 174762]

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca



From erased*remove_this* at xs4all.nl  Fri Jun 20 05:50:52 2003
From: erased*remove_this* at xs4all.nl (rgndrp)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 09:50:52 GMT
Subject: include files?
References: <3ef1c90f$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <bcuftd$rvu$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3ef2d8fc$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On 19 Jun 2003 14:30:39 GMT, "rgndrp" <erased*remove_this*@xs4all.nl>
> wrote:
> 
> >hi all,
> >
> >I use python for making cgi scripts on a iis/w2k
> >box and i wanted to know if it is it possible to include files in
> >python?
> >like: <!--#include file="file.inc"-->
> >or something :)
> >
> It depends on you context. If you are in a Python source context,
> execfile has a similar effect to #include. Chances are there are
> better ways to solve your problem though.
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

what im trying to do is have a file in which i define some
global variables and functions such as fonts and background colors and
debug/database functions. i used to do this is asp with include files.
any other suggestions, anyone? :)




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sat Jun  7 14:36:24 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 12:36:24 -0600
Subject: Twisted Panglossia
In-Reply-To: <jfi4+kKkXsVM092yn@gnosis.cx>; from mertz@gnosis.cx on Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 01:58:59PM -0400
References: <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com> <mailman.1054749788.8638.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1054830612.3231.python-list@python.org> <w/43+kKkXUlb092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list@python.org> <slrnbdv8vl.ktj.ramen@lackingtalent.com> <mailman.1054853414.15340.python-list@python.org> <m3el266ufj.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <jfi4+kKkXsVM092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <20030607123624.C1248@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters:
  [...]
> But I think that lovely word slightly misses the part about neologistic
> agglutination.  The words aren't just long, they're novel in
> predicatable ways too.

I have no doubt that predicates are applicable to these words'
ways of being novel, but which predicates do you have in mind?

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "The world will end if you get this wrong."
staschuk at telusplanet.net     -- "Typesetting Mathematics -- User's Guide",
                                 Brian Kernighan and Lorrinda Cherry




From aleax at aleax.it  Wed Jun 18 11:01:28 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:01:28 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <c9%Ha.200753$g92.4077297@news2.tin.it>

David Abrahams wrote:

> Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> writes:
> 
>> But this has little to do with the need of 'type declarations'.  I
>> suspect that a statically typed language would also be better off
>> without them, relying on type inferencing instead, a la Haskell (and
>> Haskell's typeclasses to keep the inferencing as wide as feasible),
>> for example.  But I have no research to back this up;-).
> 
> I don't have any first-hand experience, but the experience of friends
> of mine who have used Haskell is that it can be exceedingly difficult
> to locate the source of a type error when it does occur, since the
> inference engine may propagate the "wrong" type back much further than
> the source of the error.

Surely the compiler should easily be able to annotate the sources with
the information it has inferred, including, in particular, type information.
Thus it cannot possibly be any harder to identify the error point than
if the same type declarations had been laboriously, redundantly written
out by hand -- except, at worst, for a slight omission in the tool of a
feature which would be easily provided.


> Furthermore, if you do everything by inference you lose the
> explanatory power of type declarations.

I think I know where you're coming from, having quite a past as a
static-type-checking enthusiast myself, but I think you overrate the
"explanatory power of type declarations".

What I want to be able to do in my sources is assert a set of facts
about "and at this point I know X holds".  Sometimes X might perhaps
be of the form "a is of type B", but that's really a very rare and
specific case.  Much more often it will be "container c is non-empty",
"sequence d is sorted", "either x<y or pred(a[z]) for some x>=z>=y",
and so on, and so forth.  Type declarations would have extraordinary
"explanatory power" if and only if "a is of type B" was extraordinarily
more important than the other kinds of assertions, and it just isn't --
even though, by squinting just right, you may end up seeing it that
way by a sort of "Stockholm Syndrome" applied to the constraints your
compiler forces upon you.

Types are about implementation, and one should "program to an interface,
not to an implementation" -- therefore, "a is of type B" is rarely what
one SHOULD be focusing on.  Of course, some languages blur the important
distinction between a type and a typeclass (or, a class and an interface,
in Java terms -- C++ just doesn't distinguish them by different concepts,
so, if you think in C++, _seeing_ the crucial distinction may be hard;-).

"e provides such-and-such an interface" IS more often interesting, but,
except in Eiffel, the language-supplied concept of "interface" is too
weak for the interest to be sustained -- it's little more than the sheer
"signature" that you can generally infer easily.  E.g.:

my procedure receiving argument x

    assert "x satisfies an interface that provides a method Foo which
            is callable without arguments"

    x.Foo()

the ``assert'' (which might just as well be spelled "x satisfies
interface Fooable", or, in languages unable to distinguish "being
of a type" from "satisfying an interface", "x points to a Fooable")
is ridiculously redundant, the worse sort of boilerplate.  Many,
_many_ type declarations are just like that, particularly if one
follows a nice programming style of many short functions/methods.
At least in C++ you may often express the equivalent of

"just call x.Foo()!"

as

template <type T>
void myprocedure(T& x)
{
    x.Foo();
}

where you're basically having to spend a substantial amount of
"semantics-free boilerplate" to tell the compiler and the reader
"x is of some type T" (surprise, surprise; I'm sure this has huge
explanatory power, doesn't it -- otherwise the assumption would
have been that x was of no type at all...?) while letting them
both shrewdly infer that type T, whatever it might be, had better
provide a method Foo that is callable without arguments (e.g. just
the same as the Python case, natch).

You do get the "error diagnostics 2 seconds earlier" (while compiling
in preparation to running unit-tests, rather than while actually
running the unit-tests) if and when you somewhere erroneously call
myprocedure with an argument that *doesn't* provide the method Foo
with the required signature.  But, how can it surprise you if Robert
Martin claims (and you've quoted me quoting him as if I was the
original source of the assertion, in earlier posts) that this just
isn't an issue...?  If the compilation takes 3 seconds, then getting
the error diagnostics 2 seconds earlier is still a loss of time, not
a gain, compared to just running the tests w/o any compilation;-)...


I do, at some level, want a language where I CAN (*not* MUST) make
assertions about what I know to be true at certain points:
1. to help the reader in a way that won't go out of date (the assert
   statement does that pretty well in most cases)
2. to get the compiler to to extra checks & debugging for me (ditto)
3. to let the compiler in optimizing mode deduce/infer whatever it
   wants from the assertions and optimize accordingly (and assert is
   no use here, at least as currently present in C, C++, Python)
But even if and when I get such a language I strongly doubt most of
my assertions will be similar to "type declarations" anyway...


Alex




From http  Sun Jun  1 20:11:09 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 01 Jun 2003 17:11:09 -0700
Subject: Defensive programming
References: <mailman.1054494905.7743.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xn0h11gpu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:
> Sure.  All dict implementations (hash tables) have O(N**2) worst-case
> behavior, over a sequence of N inserts and/or lookups, provoked by a
> sufficiently nasty set of N keys.  If an app can't bear that, then it
> shouldn't use dicts (or hash tables in Perl, or any similar facility in any
> other language).  

I don't buy that; it's like saying don't use cryptography to protect
network traffic, because the attacker might get lucky and guess the
key; or don't count on being able to breathe while you type, because
the laws of thermodynamics make it possible for every air molecule in
the room to suddenly move to a tiny region in the corner.  Unless the
data is has a particularly nasty interaction with the hash function,
the chance of O(N**2) behavior in a properly sized table should be
exponentially small and can therefore be made arbitrarily smaller than
the chance of (say) hardware failure or obliteration by meteor impact
or supernova.  At that point, programs shouldn't have to worry about
O(N**2) behavior happening by accident.

The attack in the paper is to use knowledge about the hash function to
deliberately construct data with such a nasty interaction.  If such
knowledge isn't available (e.g. because the hash function is chosen at
random and not disclosed to the attacker), the attacker can't
construct such data and so that attack stops being a problem.

> This isn't news.  What's interesting in the paper is that
> some apps that should know better were caught doing this.

The paper proposed a good solution, which is use a hash function that
the attacker doesn't have enough information to manipulate.



From lewy0lewy at NOSPAM_poczta.onet.pl  Mon Jun 16 11:04:00 2003
From: lewy0lewy at NOSPAM_poczta.onet.pl (Pawel Lewicki)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:04:00 +0200
Subject: Big dictionary manipulation
References: <bckl7v$92q$1@news.onet.pl> <bcklp1$k4g7g$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bckm8i$bdm$1@news.onet.pl>

Uzytkownik "Thomas G?ttler" <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> napisal w
wiadomosci news:bcklp1$k4g7g$1 at ID-63505.news.dfncis.de...
> Pawel Lewicki wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > I have a question about the strategy of manipulating of big
dictionaries.
> > I build the tree-type dynamic structure of dictionaries. Something like
> > dict={k_1:{k_11:[l_11, l_12]}, k_12:[l_21, l_22], k2:...}
> > Until now I was converting it to the list [k_1, [k_11, [l_11,l_12]]...]
to
> > set and keep the sequence.
> > The final amount of data sometimes is really big and deep so I guess
that
> > conversion is unnecessary waste of time. Maybe I should just add
indexes -
> > lists of keys to iterate.
> > My question is if there is any kind of bottleneck in passing that
> > structure? Is it a reference so no additional memory is consumed?
> > That data would be passed from Zope product to ZPT page if it has any
> > meaning.
>
> Hi Pawel!
>
> Objects are passed by reference in python. You only get problems
> if your structure is bigger than your physical memory. If that's the
> case, you can have a look at BTrees.
>
> Unfortunately it is not clear for me why you convert the dictionary to a
> list.
>
>  thomas

Maybe because I don't now much enough about Python data structures :) I did
it to keep the sequence of iteration, but now I think that adding a list of
sorted keys is much simpler solution.

Pawel





From jeremy at zope.com  Wed Jun 18 11:27:26 2003
From: jeremy at zope.com (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 11:27:26 -0400
Subject: gc questions
In-Reply-To: <vf0jrcqko71j76@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vf0jrcqko71j76@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1055950046.16214.17.camel@slothrop.zope.com>

On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 07:39, Edward K. Ream wrote:
> I have several questions about gc:
> 
> 1.  The gc documentation says: " This module...provides access to
> unreachable objects that the collector found but cannot free."  I thought
> the gc could free cycles.  Why would the gc be unable to free objects that
> are, in fact, no longer being used?

A cycle of unreachable objects where one or more of the objects has a
finalizer is uncollectable.  The garbage collector can't know which
__del__ method to call first, if, in fact, it's safe to call any of them
first.

I believe the garbage collector could call an __del__ for cycles
involving only a single finalizer, but it doesn't.

> 2. What do the terms "collectable" and "uncollectable" garbage mean?  The gc
> will show such objects when gc.set_debug(gc.DEBUG_STATS) is in effect.

See answer above.

> 3.  I have not been able to do anything with gc.get_objects() except get its
> length.  For example, the following throws an exception:

I'm surprised that you have a problem.  I've used it without any
trouble.

> global lastObjectList
> 
> gc.disable()
> objects = gc.get_objects()[:]  # omitting [:] also fails.
> gc.enable()

I'm surprised that you call gc.disable() and gc.enable() here.  There's
very little chance that a collection will occur as a result of calling
get_objects().  Even if it does occur, what's the problem?

I also don't understand why you make a copy of the list?  It's probably
a very big list and I don't see any need to duplicate it.

> if lastObjectList:
>             for o in objects: # This can fail!
>                         if o not in lastObjectList:
>                                     print id(o)
> lastObjectList = objects
> 
> The exception is thrown at the statement "for o in objects:" and the
> exception is a unicode error!
> 
> Is there anything obviously wrong in this example? Being able to see which
> objects have just been added to the get_objects() list would be most
> helpful.

Are you sure there error isn't on the "o not in lastObjectList" line? 
If you have a Unicode string and a regular string containing non-ASCII
characters, you'll get a UnicodeError when you try to compare them.

Are you sure you want to do a quadratic time algorithm for this?  You're
doing a compare on every object in lastObjectList every time through the
for loop.

You might also be interested to try sys.getobjects(), which is only
available in a debug build of Python.  It returns all objects, not just
those involved in garbage collection.

Jeremy






From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Wed Jun 18 16:19:08 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 13:19:08 -0700
Subject: Python Cannot be Killed
In-Reply-To: <yfsznkf8jbv.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
References: <0B-dnTU7p53bx3KjXTWJiA@comcast.com>
	 <bcnova$ma5$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <bcnpei$96r$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
	 <bco0f3$jvp$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <yfsznkg9wvx.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
	 <slrnbev66f.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	 <yfsr85s9qoq.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
	 <bcoi9d$lh0co$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
	 <yfsznkf8jbv.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1055967548.26106.80.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Wed, 2003-06-18 at 09:02, Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> Of course it does. My old code will automatically *also* be available under
> the new license. If you can't see how this might be a problem, think about how
> happy Trolltech would be for example, if they found that their GPL'ed code
> effectively became available under, say, a BSD style license.
> 
> If you don't want to place trust on the FSF and specify a specific version
> number than you might still find yourself in trouble, because your GPL'ed code
> will effectively become license incompatible to everything else (that's also
> GPLed) over the years, possibly including newer versions of GPL'ed libraries
> it is using itself.

I can see the headlines now: "Stallman suddenly changes GPL and claims
ownership of GNU/Linux(tm), demands 1 billion dollars from SCO for
shipping GPL'd software and that Linus Torvalds change his name to
'Little Richard'"

I'll go ahead and file this under "Paranoid Fantasy".

Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Fri Jun  6 13:54:50 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:54:50 -0600
Subject: XMLRPC Authentication
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061227040.21250@ns0.tbye.com>
References: <3EE0B8B8.6070602@optonline.com> <20030606160231.6470A2026F@www.fastmail.fm>
  <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061210520.21215@ns0.tbye.com> <20030606171737.0145427ED0@www.fastmail.fm> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0306061227040.21250@ns0.tbye.com>
Message-ID: <20030606175450.CEB7032900@www.fastmail.fm>

How do you specify the login id and password required on the server side?
 The code I'm using is similar to the following.  I'm obviously missing
something here... :-(  Thanks for your help.

# Server code

import SimpleXMLRPCServer
from ccservice import CCService # A class providing methods for remote
use

server = SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer(("somehost", 8000))
server.register_instance(CCService())
server.serve_forever()



# Client code

import xmlrpclib
from BasicAuthTransport import BasicAuthTransport

server = xmlrpclib.Server('http://somehost:8000',
BasicAuthTransport("admin","password"))
print server.runCmd("dir")  # Call one of the remote methods








On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:31:29 -0700 (PDT), "Dave Brueck"
<dave at pythonapocrypha.com> said:
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Justin Johnson wrote:
> > On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:13:26 -0700 (PDT), "Dave Brueck"
> > <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> said:
> > > On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Justin Johnson wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have a simple xmlrpc server (using xmlrpclib) that accepts requests
> > > > from clients and runs some administrative commands on a bunch of servers
> > > > I support.  I would like to lock down access to the service so that only
> > > > authorized users can use it, by authenticating with a user name and
> > > > password.
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone done this before?  Is there an already existent authentication
> > > > framework available I can use with xmlrpc?
> > >
> > > I use the improvements to xmlrpclib listed here:
> > >
> > > http://www.zope.org/Members/Amos/XML-RPC
> 
> > Would you mind explaining to me how you use them?  In conjunction with
> > the example in the cookbook perhaps...
> 
> Assuming you've been using the XMLRPC client like this:
> 
> import xmlrpclib
> s = xmlrpclib.ServerProxy(url)
> 
> then you would use the BasicAuthTransport in that above HOWTO like this:
> 
> s = xmlrpclib.ServerProxy(url, BasicAuthTransport(username, password)
> 
> Everything else would remain the same. With a little work you could
> rewrite BasicAuthTransport to be a mixin to use with xmlrpclib's
> Transport
> and SafeTransport classes (thus enabling use over HTTPS as well).
> 
> -Dave
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Jun  3 15:07:45 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 03 Jun 2003 12:07:45 -0700
Subject: PySerial rereads its own data
In-Reply-To: <1054662880.31416.2.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>
References: <mailman.1054592105.28065.python-list@python.org>
	 <3EDBE18C.2C58B42E@engcorp.com>
	 <1054662880.31416.2.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>
Message-ID: <1054667265.31416.55.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Tue, 2003-06-03 at 10:54, Cliff Wells wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 16:45, Peter Hansen wrote:
> > Cliff Wells wrote:
> > > 
> > > I'm trying to write an app that talks to a bit of hardware on the serial
> > > port.  As a test setup, I've got a null modem cable linking /dev/ttyS0
> > > and /dev/ttyS1 on the same PC.
> > [snip]
> > > 'hello' correctly appears on the console running 'cat /dev/ttyS1'.
> > > 
> > > My question is this:  why do I get back the data I just wrote?  More to
> > > the point, how do I stop it?
> > 
> > Maybe check (or post?) the output of "stty" for /dev/ttyS0 on the
> > sending machine?  Echoing?
> 
> I was thinking the same thing after I got home last night, but that
> doesn't appear to be it:

Go figure.  For some reason 'cat' must do something odd.  If I run
anything but cat, it works as expected.  

That's what I get for just picking the "simplest tool" that could
*never* do anything unexpected...

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jun 17 13:35:51 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:35:51 -0600
Subject: Loop from 'aaaa' to 'tttt' ?
In-Reply-To: <20030617111537.D716@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>; from staschuk@telusplanet.net on Tue, Jun 17, 2003 at 11:15:37AM -0600
References: <slrnberu4u.khj.lschaps@x11.informatik.uni-bremen.de> <bcmom3$flb$1@news.hccnet.nl> <20030617111537.D716@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
Message-ID: <20030617113551.G716@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth I:
  [...]
>     def antonianvalue(string, base=10):
>         digits = list(string)
>         value = 0
>         for digit in digits:
>             value = value*base
>             value = value + ord(digits) - ord('0') + 1  # no "+ 1" normally
>         return value - 1                                # no "- 1" normally

*sigh*

That should be ord(digit), of course, not ord(digits).

One of these days I might learn to post exactly what I've tested.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                  staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Telekinesis would be worth patenting."  -- James Gleick




From gideon at computer.org  Mon Jun  2 07:48:45 2003
From: gideon at computer.org (gideon may)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 13:48:45 +0200
Subject: PyOSG 0.4.0 - Python OpenSceneGraph bindings
In-Reply-To: <3ed961d2$0$16586$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <3ed63acf$0$137$e4fe514c@dreader5.news.xs4all.nl> <3ed961d2$0$16586$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <3edb39ac$0$204$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl>

Hi Ben,

deckerben wrote:
> "gideon may" <gideon at computer.org> wrote in message
> news:3ed63acf$0$137$e4fe514c at dreader5.news.xs4all.nl...
>
<snip>

> Sounds really good. We ported the entire osg library to DOS just to see if
> it would work with PythonD. Too bad you also added the unneccessary
> complication of using the boost library as well. How does this significantly
> enhance the package? Both boost and jam will not port to DOS without major
> changes.

First of all, boost.python allows extreme ease of wrapping C++ libraries
in python.
Secondly, boost makes possible a number of very nice features, i.e a 
feature which is being used in PyOSG is the subclassing of abstract c++ 
classes in python.
One disadvantage of boost is it's dependance on a very conformant C++ 
compiler.

I've been looking at SWIG some time ago and at that time it
wasn't as powerfull as boost. This might have changed, but  I like the 
fact that boost doesn't work with an IDL and I don't need the multi 
language support which SWIG offers.

> 
> sigh.

sorry :(
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
ciao,

gideon




From kuntzagk at sulawesi.bioinf.mdc-berlin.de  Thu Jun  5 07:08:45 2003
From: kuntzagk at sulawesi.bioinf.mdc-berlin.de (kuntzagk at sulawesi.bioinf.mdc-berlin.de)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:08:45 +0200
Subject: Updating SQL table problems with python
References: <3eddac41$0$31519$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <bbn8ik$bdu9q$1@fu-berlin.de>

> As you can tell, im parsing a xml RSS feed and updating items table. Im
> trying to replace
> default value of 'Title' with the title from the RSS feed.
> The update statement is givng me the syntax error
> I cant see whats wrong

Did you get a python syntax error or a SQL syntax error?
If the latter, check if your title contains a quote charakter. 
Got bitten by this myself.

Murple



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Jun  4 09:30:11 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:30:11 -0500 
Subject: Not getting all keys in FieldStorage (Multipart form data)
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623304F6682B@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Max M [mailto:maxm at mxm.dk]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 6:59 AM
> 
> Here you are mixing stuff:
> 
> action="%s/admin/additem.py?bookid=%s&image=yes"
> 
> you should not pass parameters as part of the action.
> 
> Do it as a hidden field instead.
> 
> <input type="hidden" name="bookid" value="%s">
> 
> > But when I try to retrive the bookid key from FieldStorage then it 
> > raises a Key error :-(. The code where I am trying to get this...
> 
> I think it is undefined what happens in this case. Most likely the 
> browser ignores the parameteres in your action, and just add 
> those from 
> the form itself.
> 
> Anyway it isn't legal.
>

Please post where it's documented as illegal or undefined;
I've been using querystrings and posted parameters for
years, and never had any problems whatsoever.

If FieldStorage is clipping the query because there's
posted parameters, I believe it's a bug, because posted
parameters have nothing to do with the query-string,
they're independant of each other.

-gca

--
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From andy47 at halfcooked.com  Mon Jun  2 11:38:15 2003
From: andy47 at halfcooked.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:38:15 +0100
Subject: PyModule for ID3 v2.2+
In-Reply-To: <2147483647.1054415157@[192.168.0.3]>
References: <2147483647.1054415157@[192.168.0.3]>
Message-ID: <bbfqug$ob5$1@main.gmane.org>

Andreas Jung wrote:
> Is there a module that can read ID3 tags from MP3 files where the ID3 tags
> are of version 2.2 (produced by iTunes)?
> 
> -aj
> 

If you just want to read the tags I've got some example code here;

http://www.halfcooked.com/mt/archives/000064.html

Its a bit quick and dirty but it did the job for me. YMMV.

Regards,
Andy
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/






From tbryan at python.net  Wed Jun  4 00:04:45 2003
From: tbryan at python.net (Tom Bryan)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 04:04:45 GMT
Subject: long-term release schedule?
References: <mailman.1054692908.26987.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xdeDa.17846$_w.584119@twister.southeast.rr.com>

Tim Peters wrote:

> appear.  What's your personal plan for working on 2.5 or 3.0?  "The
> answer" is the sum of everyone's plans (divided by 10 to compensate for
> unfounded optimism <wink>).

Ah, but is that integer division?

Expecting-a-quotient-between-zero-and-one-ly yours,
---Tom




From ebolonev at mail.ru  Sun Jun 29 20:54:39 2003
From: ebolonev at mail.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:54:39 +1100
Subject: console mp3->wav decoder for $indows or GUI one which supports console
References: <bdnvc9$ktc$1@news.rol.ru> <slrnbfv0vi.vc1.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <bdo1oo$lof$1@news.rol.ru>

> > I'm seeking a subj.
I'm looking for..

> We're seeking a descriptive message body.

What? I did't understand?







From abli at freemail.hu  Wed Jun 11 14:07:22 2003
From: abli at freemail.hu (Abel Daniel)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:07:22 +0200
Subject: finding size of text on Tkinter.Canvas, was: Re: Need urgent solution
In-Reply-To: <20030611173222.21827.qmail@webmail27.rediffmail.com>
References: <20030611173222.21827.qmail@webmail27.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <20030611180721.GA1341@hooloovoo>

Suresh  Kumar wrote:
>   I am using python and tkinter. My question is a simple one. How 
> to find number of pixels that a text occupies in canvas? In 
> otherwords how can i get the width of the text whose width is not 
> set explicitly? I have placed a text, say "Hello World",  in the 
> canvas using "create_text" and want to find number pixels that it 
> occupies.
> 
> The text is created as follows.
>          self.canvas.create_text(100,100, text="Hello World"))
>    The text starts at 100,100 and how to find the ending points 
> of the text?
>    I need the solution urgently. Please give your comments as 
> soon as possible.
> 
> With Regards
> Suresh.

>>> import Tkinter
>>> c=Tkinter.Canvas()
>>> c.pack()
>>> text = c.create_text(100,100, text="Hello World")
>>> c.bbox(text)
(67, 93, 133, 107)
>>> 

Note that with the default setting, the _middle_ of the text will be at
the position you give. If you want to set the top-left corner of the
text at that given postion, you have to use the 'anchor' option:
text = c.create_text(100,100, text="Hello World", anchor=Tkinter.NW)

(As a reference text, i suggest downloading "Tkinter reference: a GUI
for Python" from http://www.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/lang.html)

Abel Daniel




From legere at ll.mit.edu  Tue Jun 17 11:38:14 2003
From: legere at ll.mit.edu (Ronald Legere)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:38:14 -0400
Subject: "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" in Python?
References: <a86143fb.0306160718.75cd6216@posting.google.com> <YGoHa.61$Du1.14@llnews.ll.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <ZxGHa.63$Du1.26@llnews.ll.mit.edu>

If anyone else out there is trying this, I wanted to point out one
other potential 'gotcha'.  Much of the SICP code in chapter 3 uses set! in
closures. (For example,  Exercise 3.11)
However, this won't work in python, because of the way nested
scopes works---you can't rebind names in enclosing scopes.
(But try it and see. ) The 'work around' is to either just use classes
(translate any
scheme procedures that return dispatch functions into classes) or  you can
use
containers as described in PEP 227:
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0227.html

Cheers,
  Ron





From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Wed Jun  4 14:35:53 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:35:53 +0200
Subject: Tk vs wxPython ?
In-Reply-To: <3EDE3341.36E70A9A@engcorp.com>
References: <bbl8b5$1uso$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <3EDE28A1.A8ABE331@engcorp.com> <bblaip$20qd$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <3EDE3341.36E70A9A@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030604183553.GB17862@nl.linux.org>

Peter Hansen schreef op woensdag  4 juni om 20:06:16 +0000:
> > I guess a good compromise would be to leave Tkinter in place, but to make it
> > clear in the documentation that for any serious GUI development, wxPython
> > would be the way to go (along with a link to download it of course).
> 
> Good point.  I just tried searching for any reference to GUI stuff on the 
> www.python.org site and was unable to find *anything* which either recommended
> a toolkit or referenced GUI development at all, for beginners or others.

I have made a comparison a long time ago. However, I abandoned it and had
no time any more to maintain it, so I removed it. Better no comparison than
an incorrect, outdated comparison.

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
163. If a man marry a woman and she bear him no sons; if then this
woman die, if the "purchase price" which he had paid into the house of his
father-in-law is repaid to him, her husband shall have no claim upon the
dowry of this woman; it belongs to her father's house.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From kendear at nospam.com  Thu Jun 19 17:05:47 2003
From: kendear at nospam.com (Kendear)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:05:47 GMT
Subject: thinkings on shallow copy
References: <3EF1849E.6060103@nospam.com> <mailman.1056036561.14899.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EF225AA.1000909@nospam.com>

Steven Taschuk wrote:
> Quoth Kendear:
> 
>>i was just looking at docstrings and saw the one
>>for copy.__doc__ regarding copy.copy():
>>
>> > - A shallow copy constructs a new compound object and then (to the
>> >   extent possible) inserts *the same objects* into in that the
>> >   original contains.
>>
>>I wonder if it is actually to insert *the same object references*
>>into the new compound object...
> 
> 
> Sort of.  Better: "inserts references to the same objects".
> 
> (Saying that the references are the same suggests, erroneously,
> that changing one reference would change the other:

hm, why would it suggest that?  if two pointers are the
same, why would changing one pointer change the other?

essentially, "same object references" are the same as
"references to the same objects"... just as
"character pointer" is the same as "pointer to character"
in C.




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jun 17 13:36:12 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:36:12 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com> <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <mailman.1055784208.22718.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1055813915.12726.python-list@python.org> <3EEE7D4C.DA0B3512@engcorp.com> <donn-2FF467.09334917062003@nntp2.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3EEF518C.ADD5566E@engcorp.com>

Donn Cave wrote:
> 
> In article <3EEE7D4C.DA0B3512 at engcorp.com>,
>  Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> ...
> > Pah!  We're not talking about a bunch of morons here, we're talking about
> > intelligent people who might not have encountered a particular approach
> > which could allow them to improve the quality of their output.  Why
> > would you think people aren't intelligent enough to understand that
> > nothing is an absolute, that no process or language or generalization
> > of any kind will ever be adequate for all possible situations?  If I've
> > said something that claims XP or TDD will work for everyone, always,
> > then I hereby take it back, but I'm sure I haven't said such a thing
> > unless it was in one of my 3:30 in the morning after a lousy few hours
> > of sleep kind of postings...
> 
> He's not the only one who gets a message something like that
> from the unit testing advocates on c.l.p.  Without the hyperbolic
> ``all possible situations'', sure, but more to the point, does
> the discussion usually acknowledge significant exceptions, or
> rather tend to dismiss them?

I'm not sure, not recalling specific cases where there was any
mention of significant exceptions which were then dismissed.

I'm also not sure that the point of my comments is so much to debate
the effectiveness of agile processes as it is to encourage 
experimentation with them amongst other Python users.  The proper
place for debate about those processes is probably the relevant
mailing lists, such as the testdrivendevelopment and extremeprogramming
on Yahoo Groups (groups.yahoo.com).

Without that necessary step, the discussion is between those
who have tried it and (apparently, so far, almost universally)
found it highly effective, and those who have not tried it and
therefore have no particular facts on which to base their 
dismissal of it.  Then there are those who claim to have already
tried it years ago, by writing lots of tests before they wrote any
code, thereby demonstrating their complete failure to understand
the qualitative difference between that and the way TDD actually works.

-Peter



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 25 12:36:29 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:36:29 +0100
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
References: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3EF9CF8D.D00C429@hotmail.com>

Gobo Borz wrote:

> I remember reading somewhere that building the string with successive
> "+=" statements is inefficient, but I don't know any alternatives, and
> my search attempts came up empty. Is there a better, more efficient way
> to do it than this:
> 
> #---------------------------------
> htmlPage = "<html><header></header><body>"
> htmlPage += "more html"
> ...
> htmlPage += "even more html"
> ...
> htmlPage += "</body></html>"
> print htmlPage
> #-------------------------------------

Best to do something like

#---------------------------------

htmlbits = []
htmlbits.append("<html><header></header><body>")
htmlbits.append("more html")
# ...
htmlbits.append("even more html")
# ...
htmlbits.append("</body></html>")

# And now for the non-intuitive bit
print "".join(htmlbits)

#---------------------------------

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From gupt_vive at hotmail.com  Thu Jun  5 03:29:56 2003
From: gupt_vive at hotmail.com (vivek kumar)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:59:56 +0530
Subject: Not getting all keys in FieldStorage (Multipart form data)
Message-ID: <Law15-F923yysPiN73N00074d89@hotmail.com>

Oops!! I am really very sorry for this as I didn't write in my previous 
mail. Anyway, I tried again with the -u option and now it comes with the 
other keys that I have passed to it also.

Thanks again to all you GREAT guys there :-)

THX and Kind Regards
Vivek Kumar

_________________________________________________________________
Reconnect with old pals. Relive the happy times. 
http://www.batchmates.com/msn.asp With just one click.





From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Jun  9 11:36:20 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:36:20 -0400
Subject: pickle vs cPickle: error is not raised at unpickle / windows vs
 linux (!) (repost)
In-Reply-To: <3ee463ab$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHOEPIFNAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tim]
>> This is why bug reports don't belong on comp.lang.python:  the
>> context is lost, and I don't have time to go searching for it.  When
>> you don't get a reply to a repeated question about dubious behavior,
>> it's probably because nobody reading c.l.py knows the answer.  In
>> this case, there are maybe two people on Earth who understand all
>> the pickle changes going into 2.3, and Guido (the one who knows
>> best) rarely has time to read c.l.py anymore.

[Irmen de Jong]
> Yes, well, then please tell me why it's not best to first ask around
> and see if anybody else has seen the same problem or even knows a
> solution, before submitting an unfounded bug report in sourceforge?

That's fine.  At the point I noticed your thread and replied, it was at
least the third msg from you, with no responses from anyone else.  At that
point, "first ask around" stopped being relevant two messages earlier
<wink>.

> Which *will* take time and resources of those involved to look at it.

So does posting to c.l.py, of course.

> Would you be happier if I submit all 'dubious behavior' as bug reports
> on SF, even those that are obviously my mistake, which probably can be
> pointed out quickly by several knowledgeable people here on
> c.l.python?

No, but when nobody replies, you'll save everyone's time (including your
own!) by moving it to an appropriate forum.  The lack of replies to the
initial msg is your evidence that c.l.py turned out not to be appropriate.





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Jun  2 13:28:28 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 13:28:28 -0400
Subject: Defensive programming
References: <mailman.1054494905.7743.python-list@python.org>
 <7xn0h11gpu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
 <W2zCa.25460$da1.5950@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>
 <7xisrosxrf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <8k42+kKkX8TK092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote previously:
|For the same reason everyone who uses Python gets array bounds
|checking whether they ask for it or not.  What makes you think that a
|collision resistant function is necessarily slower?

Scott Crosby, author of the "hash overrun" paper, proposes the UHASH
function as an alternative.  His OWN argument in favor of its speed is
that it becomes faster than Perl's hash technique for strings LONGER
than about 44 bytes.  The exact crossover point seems to depend on
whether the hand-tuned assembly version was used for testing (which he
vacillated on).

Crosby then characterizes UHASH as being "half as fast" as the Perl hash
at smaller sizes.  But even that is somewhat biased averaging.  From his
own chart at:

  http://www.cs.rice.edu/~scrosby/hash/CrosbyWallach_UsenixSec2003/LengthEffects.png

For strings around 8-16 bytes, UHASH is quite a bit worse than half as
fast.  It does better at either the very small length, or close to the
cross-over point.  To my mind--albeit without any actual real-world
modelling--strings of about 8-16 bytes are the "sweet spot"... those are
probably the most common lengths for strings in programs (especially
ones received as user input).

|As for "more complicated", why should the user care whether the function
|is complicated as long as the Python implementation takes care of it?

Well...  Uncle Timmy cares about using non-portable and complicated
hashing algorithms.  He's the one that would need to maintain it (or at
least someone at Python Labs).  "Might be nice in a rare border case"
isn't enough to convince the actual Python developers to take on new
headaches.

Moreover, another thing Guido observes on python-dev is that hash() is
now part of Python's API, and part of its documented behavior is
returning the same value across different runs of the same Python
version.  Using a universal hash breaks that API.

|If a collision resistant hash really has to be slower than the regular
|version, then having a runtime switch to select which version to use.

That's exactly what we have right now:

    class InputString(str):
        def __hash__(self):
           return UHASH(self)
    user_input = InputString(user_input)

Yours, Lulu...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s





From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Wed Jun  4 09:03:52 2003
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: 4 Jun 2003 06:03:52 -0700
Subject: Python2.3 and win32all wmi problems.
References: <9c9ad528.0306031121.66b71309@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8360efcd.0306040503.24cd4b7c@posting.google.com>

murtaza_hakim at yahoo.com (Murtaza Hakim) wrote

MH> when I try to access the Windows Management
MH> Instrumentation (WMI) classes I get a traceback.  
MH> This operation works fine using Python 2.2.

[ snip traceback ]

Just to clarify, I believe it is the version of win32all 
 which you are using, and not the version of Python, which
 is the source of the error. I get the same error running
 win32all-153 under Python 2.2.2.

However... because root/cimv2 is the default namespace for
 winmgmts queries, you seem to be able to get away with:

  GetObject ("winmgmts:")

or

  GetObject ("winmgmts://hostname")

or even

  GetObject ("winmgmts:{impersonationLevel=Impersonate}//hostname")

if you want.

BTW, I've just developed a mini-module to ease using WMI under Python.
 All it does is to wrap the WMI calls in Python classes with a bit
 of getattr / setattr magic. If you're interested, drop me a line.

Tim Golden



From rpgnmets at aol.com  Sun Jun 22 23:53:48 2003
From: rpgnmets at aol.com (Rob Renaud)
Date: 22 Jun 2003 20:53:48 -0700
Subject: Calling a function, arguments in a dict ??
References: <wYpJa.8525$Hb.148440@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <3759308d.0306221953.7d1c37f6@posting.google.com>

"Thomas Weholt" <2002 at weholt.org> wrote in message news:<wYpJa.8525$Hb.148440 at news4.e.nsc.no>...
> If I got a dictionary with a bunch of key/values I want to use as named
> arguments for a function, how do I do that?
> 
> Say we got a function a, takes three parameters; x,y,z. In my dictionary I
> got {'z': 1, 'x': 2, 'y': 3}. How can I create some code that will call it
> like this :
> 
> a(z =1, x=2, y=3)
> 
>  ???
> 
> Best regards,
> Thomas

This is how you do it.  The real question, what is it called?  How do
you read the function call line in english?

>>> def a(z=0, x=0, y=0):
...     print x, y, z
... 
>>> args = {'z': 1, 'x': 2, 'y': 3}
>>> a(**args)
2 3 1



From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Wed Jun 18 08:26:56 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:26:56 +0200
Subject: reinventing the web server
References: <mailman.1055899117.6818.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcplqq$l3a82$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Simon Wittber (Maptek) wrote:

> Hello Python People.
> 
> I am very interested in using Python as a web development tool. I have
> investigated mod_python. It was rather difficult to setup, and seemed
> rather clunky.
> 
> I then checked out twisted web, which seemed to work quite well. However
> the rpy files left me cold. All I want is access to the session, form
> and querystrings and some server variables. I don't want all the twisted
> Resource() weirdness. Also, twisted seems to be a bit of a resource hog.
> A simple request was chewing up 10% of my poor Indy's CPU :(
> 
> Is it worthwhile reinventing my own Python web server, the way I want
> it? Or is it a waste of time... and should I be sticking to existing
> technologies?
> 
> Sw.

You can use CGIHTTPServer.
One script is listens on a port, the other script
gets executed (needs to be in a subdirectory called cgi-bin):

Webserver.py:
#!/usr/bin/env python
import sys
from CGIHTTPServer import CGIHTTPRequestHandler
import BaseHTTPServer

class MyRequestHandler(CGIHTTPRequestHandler):
    cgi_directories=["/cgi-bin"]


def run():
    httpd=BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer(('', 8000), MyRequestHandler)
    httpd.serve_forever()

if __name__=="__main__":
    run()

test.py:
import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
import cgi
def header(title=""):
    ret="""<html><head><title>%s</title></head>
     <body>
     """ % title
    return ret

def footer():
    ret="""</body>
     </html>"""
    return ret

def main():
    ret=[]
    ret.append(header())
    ret.append("foo")
    ret.append(footer())
    return ''.join(ret)

if __name__=="__main__":
    ret=main()
    print "Content-Type: text/html"     # HTML is following
    print                               # blank line, end of headers
    print ret




From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jun 10 08:30:42 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 13:30:42 +0100
Subject: using urllib or httplib to post with ENCTYPE=mulitpart/form-data
References: <mailman.1054758548.9033.python-list@python.org> <87he751jla.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1054782491.12301.python-list@python.org> <bbmlee$kk6$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <mailman.1054823291.20112.python-list@python.org> <87of1cs8jq.fsf@pobox.com> <bsNEa.15691$7l6.12257@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com> <87of176mhz.fsf@pobox.com> <7E6Fa.40673$DI.12059@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com> <87r862f7tu.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <87he6ydsi5.fsf@pobox.com>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:
[...]
>     # path_specified flags accordingly, and use the request values:
> 
-     req_domain, req_path = urlparse.urlparse(request,get_full_url())
+     req_domain, req_path = urlparse.urlparse(request,get_full_url())[1:3]
>     if not domain_specified:
[...]


John



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jun  4 21:44:31 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 03:44:31 +0200
Subject: Python proper on Linux, `.a' vs `.so'
In-Reply-To: <oqk7c1qqf1.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>
References: <oqk7c1qqf1.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>
Message-ID: <3EDEA07F.1080406@ghaering.de>

Francois Pinard wrote:
> Hi to all Python lovers.
> 
> Today, I wanted to use some functionality already written as a Python into
> a few C main programs.  The size of each generated executable is over 800K,
> and I suspect that most of it comes from the fact it is linked with:
> 
>    /usr/lib/python2.2/config/libpython2.2.a
> 
> I wonder if there is any deep reason why this could not have been
> installed as a `.so' library right from the Python installation itself.

On some platforms (for example Linux), Python can be built as a shared 
library since Python 2.3.

For Python 2.2 and earlier it is possible with patching the build 
process. Debian does this.

> Is there any counter-indication at having done so?  
> If yes, I'm a bit
> curious about what these difficulties might be.  If not, is there any
> simple stunt I could do for creating a usable `.so' library?
> 
> Since the original C programs executables are not so big, less than 100K
> each (relying on installed shared libraries -- of course), I feel that
> the idea of using Python modules from within C applications would "sell"
> better if it was not blatantly bloating the size of executable files.

Maybe. Does Linux share .so's across different applications? If not, all 
you save is some hard disk space.

-- Gerhard




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jun  4 12:02:45 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:02:45 -0500
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
In-Reply-To: <1054741611.3ede146baafd9@mcherm.com>
References: <1054741611.3ede146baafd9@mcherm.com>
Message-ID: <16094.6181.332962.895239@montanaro.dyndns.org>

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> writes:

    Michael> I don't think either awkward workaround is necessary. It seems
    Michael> to me that you could use something like this:

    Michael>     def foo(...) [precondition(foo_pre), postcondition(foo_post)]:
    Michael>         <normal code here>

    Michael> Notice that precondition and postcondition are functions that
    Michael> take in one function as an argument and give out a function
    Michael> which can be applied to foo to give foo-prime. 

There ya go.  My original post contained this disclaimer:

    (FYI, the above is just right off the top of my sleep-starved brain.
    I'm sure it's full of holes.)

Skip




From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Jun 17 14:16:11 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:16:11 -0400
Subject: analyzing lock contention in multi-threaded app?
In-Reply-To: <16111.17525.365865.552564@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHIEHLFPAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Skip Montanaro]
> I can see I was too vague in my description.

Nope, I just decided to answer an interesting question instead <wink>.

> I'm not really concerned with deadlock since no thread holds more than
> one lock at a time.  I'm more interested in knowing if a thread had to
> wait to get a lock or take an object off the queue.

Well, on a uniprocessor box and an app with N threads, the best you can hope
for is that each thread spends (N-1)/N of its time waiting for something.

> After my post it occurred to me that instead of simply calling
> lock.acquire(), since I only use blocking calls to get locks, I could
> define an acquire method which looks like this:
> ...

Or continue to use blocking acquires and just capture time.time() on each
side.  You'll want to stuff a thread id and timestamp into each log entry
too.





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jun 11 08:47:20 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:47:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: getting the name of a generator function
References: <mailman.1055332280.26057.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93978A6BAED66duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Oscar Rambla <tecnic at codidoc.com> wrote in
news:mailman.1055332280.26057.python-list at python.org: 

> 1)Is there a direct way to know the name of the function generator
> from the generator instance?
> 
> Ex:
> def f1():
>   yield 1
> 
> def f2():
>    yield f1()
> 
> g1= f2()
> g2 = g1.next()
> 
> "g2 is " g2?

Did you mean how do you get "f1" from g2? If so, try:

>>> inspect.getframeinfo(g2.gi_frame)[2]
'f1'

Although it escapes me WHY you would want to do this.

> 
> 2)How to know the name of the module that contains a base class
> definition from a class/subclass instance?

Using the __module__ attribute of the base class.


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Jun 17 12:25:53 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:25:53 GMT
Subject: non-implicit globals -- missing feature
References: <3eee2351$0$11585$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <mTAHa.188476$g92.3820388@news2.tin.it> <3EEF2415.6000303@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <liHHa.103171$pR3.2239648@news1.tin.it>

Helmut Jarausch wrote:

   ...
> Ofcourse one wouldn't forbid all global names but you would be
> forced to "declare" them. If I remember right, Modula requires
> an 'import <Name>' statement to access non-local names.

I think you remember incorrectly: Modula-2 requires a MODULE
to import names from OTHER MODULES -- just like Python
does; it does *NOT* require every single PROCEDURE to
re-import all over again all the global names its module has
already imported...!!!  I think that would make it unusable.

In Python it would be even worse.  With Python's simple name 
lookup mechanism, built-ins are looked up as "non-local names" 
just like any other: do you think it might be remotely acceptable to
force any function that e.g. wants to loop five times to *declare*
it's going to use nonlocal name 'range' before it can say

    for i in range(5):

....?!  If you do, then it seems clear to me that the level of
"boilerplate" (declarative, repetitive redundancy) that you're
most comfortable with is many light-years away from what
Python offers you: I would therefore, albeit reluctantly, feel
it best to suggest to you that you look for other languages,
which do force you into such abundant declarative boilerplate:
Python's about getting AWAY from it.  I doubt you'll find what
you're looking for in Modula-2 (it's NOT as restrictive as you
would wish it to be!), but people who are truly obsessed with
forcing programmers to use always more and more redundant
declarative boilerplate may no doubt have developed languages
which are even more constraining in this regard.


> I still think this automatic usage of global names together with a
> copy on write semantics is error-prone.

A "copy on write semantics" no doubt might be, but that's
utterly different from what Python offers, so I don't see why
that should be relevant.  In Python, any name you rebind
locally is local (unless a 'global' statement says otherwise
explicitly); any other name you access but never rebind is
looked up lexically (in outer functions, then up to the module
level, then into built-ins).

> Many thanks for your comment and especially this hint,

You're welcome!

Alex




From spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu  Mon Jun  2 21:26:49 2003
From: spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu (Chris Fonnesbeck)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 18:26:49 -0700
Subject: python-mode on OS X
Message-ID: <c3835e5f.0306021726.eda1ba6@posting.google.com>

I'm having tremedous difficulty getting python-mode and syntax
highlighting working on emacs in OS X. I byte-compiled python-mode.el,
with the following warnings:

---
Compiling file /Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/share/emacs/21.3.50/lisp/python-mode.el
at Mon Jun  2 21:18:37 2003
Entering directory `/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/share/emacs/21.3.50/lisp/'
python-mode.el:619:14:Warning: assignment to free variable
zmacs-region-stays

In python-mode: python-mode.el:970:41:Warning: assignment to free
variable
add-log-current-defun-function
python-mode.el:1006:15:Warning: reference to free variable
py-which-shell

In py-pdbtrack-track-stack-file: python-mode.el:1142:44:Warning:
reference to
free variable comint-last-input-end

In py-electric-delete: python-mode.el:1692:16:Warning: reference to
free
variable delete-key-deletes-forward

In end of data:
python-mode.el:3252:11:Warning: the following functions are not known
to be defined: make-extent,
    set-extent-property, buffer-syntactic-context, event-point,
    event-buffer, extent-at, extent-property, delete-forward-p
---

I put the following in .emacs to load python-mode on startup:

'(autoload 'python-mode "python-mode" "Python editing mode" t)

but I get the error "Wrong type argument: symbolp, 80" when emacs
starts up, and no python-mode.

Any assistance most welcome; I am running emacs version 21.3.50.4 on
OS X 10.2.6



From sheila at spamcop.net  Thu Jun  5 00:09:40 2003
From: sheila at spamcop.net (Sheila King)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 21:09:40 -0700
Subject: Anyone using Python to access PHPbb's MySQL database on a web server?
References: <EpcDa.2207$xM5.2049592@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <bbln6k.1i0.1@kserver.org>

On Wed, 04 Jun 2003 02:01:08 GMT, "Robert Oschler"
<no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid> wrote in comp.lang.python in
article <EpcDa.2207$xM5.2049592 at news2.news.adelphia.net>:

> I want to run Python programs locally on my Win2k box to read/write the
> PHPbb.MySQL database(s).  I have Python 2.2.x with the venerable WingIDE
> debugger running on my Win2k box.  Has anyone done any Python programming
> like this?   If so, I'd be very interested in what you had to do to get it
> working, especially in the area of any available python libraries/modules to
> help with the MySQL access.

You really do need to check with your host as to whether they allow IP
addresses outside of their local network to even access the MySQL server.

I get quite a number of support incidents at the Service Desk where I work,
where clients just assume that because they have Telnet/SSH and FTP access,
that they can also connect to their MySQL databases remotely.

We do not permit this, excepting that they order a special ODBC connection.

Like I said, check first to see whether it is even permitted by your host.

-- 
Sheila King
http://www.thinkspot.net/sheila/
http://www.k12groups.org/



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jun  9 06:18:50 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 03:18:50 -0700
Subject: Recall last result
References: <3ee4577d$0$25096$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at> <3EE45AED.8A20FD8E@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3EE45F0A.750D7AB3@alcyone.com>

Alan Kennedy wrote:

> Erich Neuwirth wrote:
> 
> > Is there a standard way of recalling the last result?
> 
> Try "_", which accesses the last expression result, i.e.
> 
> >>>3.1415927*(2.5*2.5)
> 19.634954375
> >>>_
> 19.634954375

This is indeed true, but note that it is only the case in the
interactive interpreter.  It is not the case in a general script; it
wasn't clear which the original poster meant.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names.
\__/  John F. Kennedy



From grante at visi.com  Tue Jun  3 00:02:36 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 03 Jun 2003 04:02:36 GMT
Subject: 123.3 + 0.1  is  123.3999999999 ?
References: <3EC3BCCD.3090605@nospam.com> <mailman.1053017062.18647.python-list@python.org> <895e4ce2.0306021736.13c657a5@posting.google.com> <slrnbdo1i8.a95.grante@localhost.localdomain> <3EDC1074.CA05EC23@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbdo8cl.abe.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <3EDC1074.CA05EC23 at alcyone.com>, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
>> In article <895e4ce2.0306021736.13c657a5 at posting.google.com>, D.W.
>> wrote:
>> 
>> > Good article.  It is correct when it says that this happens in any
>> > language.  I always thought it was common knowledge among
>> > programmers
>> > that "1" could be stored as 0.99999999999999999...
>> 
>> Wha?   I defy you to find a system where 1 isn't stored exactly.
> 
> I suspect he's being facetious, since 0.999... = 1.

Right.  But it's never _stored_ as an infinite number of nines.  Nor could
it be.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Clear the
                                  at               laundromat!! This
                               visi.com            whirl-o-matic just had a
                                                   nuclear meltdown!!



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sun Jun  8 18:02:23 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 18:02:23 -0400
Subject: solving the metaclass conflict
References: <2259b0e2.0306070629.7f5fcad7@posting.google.com>
 <25b5433d.0306071443.63b27df6@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1055044454.21616.python-list@python.org>
 <2259b0e2.0306080356.600320e2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vJ74+kKkXsCJ092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote previously:
|> Of course:
|>     M = _generatemetaclass((),(A,B,C),0)
|>     #-> TypeError: MRO conflict among bases B, C, A
|> Which is a bad thing.  Is that the real concern?

|Of course not, since this is an issue with the C3 method resolution
|order (http://www.python.org/2.3/mro.html) which in principle has
|nothing to do with metaclasses.

Yes and no.  I know that MRO conflicts don't have anything to do with
metaclasses per se.  But if a version of _generatemetaclass() happened
to remove all the extraneous superclasses from the metabases tuple, that
would make many (all?) MRO conflicts do away.

I think removing those extra superclasses would be a good thing.  But I
don't feel strongly; and there might be some reason I have overlooked
why it wouldn't be so good.

|class C(object,type): pass
|gives a MRO conflict (under Python 2.3).

Hmmm... actually, the question never came to my mind.  I'm not sure what
my first guess would have been--especially since, as you hint, Python
2.2 behaves differently.  Just a little more for readers:

  class C(type, object): pass

Is perfectly happy under both 2.2 and 2.3.  Again, obvious to Michele,
but probably not to some other readers.

Yours, David...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s





From zen at shangri-la.dropbear.id.au  Sun Jun 29 00:23:11 2003
From: zen at shangri-la.dropbear.id.au (Stuart Bishop)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:23:11 +1000
Subject: XML
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306232034500.2864-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <64A8663A-A9E9-11D7-8B63-000A95A06FC6@shangri-la.dropbear.id.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On Tuesday, June 24, 2003, at 02:49  AM, Roman Suzi wrote:

> ------------------
> foo = "123"
> bar = "456"
> zoo = "la\"lala"
> ------------------
>
> And it's not very hard to parse that.
> In case of XML I will need something like
>
> <?xml version="1.0"?>
> <foo>123</foo><bar>456</bar><zoo>la&quot;lala</zoo>

> - not a big deal, but it's harder to parse. And also XML software keeps
> changing (or so it seems), and this gives a sense of instability.

Are you just assuming this? The following works happily under
both Python2.1.3 and Python2.2.3, and probably every version
since minidom appeared.

import xml.dom.minidom
import pprint

my_xml = '''
<settings>
     <set name="foo">123</set>
     <set name="bar">456</set>
     <set name="zoo">la"lala</set>
     <set name="baz">Rene&#xe9; or Rene\xc3\xa9</set>
     <set name="quux">"""oops="moo"</set>
</settings>
''' # UTF8 by defailt, or add a <?xml encoding="foo"?> for other 
encodings

settings = {}
d = xml.dom.minidom.parseString(my_xml)
for set_node in d.getElementsByTagName('set'):
     name = set_node.getAttribute('name')
     value = [t.wholeText for t in set_node.childNodes]
     settings[name] = value
pprint.pprint(settings)

> XML always gives me a feeling that I do not fully master it 
> (especially it's
> DTD part)! And this is after two years of trying to understand it. 
> (Cf: with
> Python felt at home after a week or two!)

XML gets pretty hairy, generally when you are trying to *do* something
hairy. If you can program Python, you probably have no need for XSLT.
DTD's and schemas are only needed if you need to validate your data.
The advantage is, that these tools and many more are available if you
*do* need them.

XML can also be dead easy if you don't get carried away.
Using a better interface than the DOM (Elementree or pyRXP)
makes it even easier, since you end up with nice pythonic
lists'n'stuff to deal with instead of having to lookup method
names like getElementsByTagName or wholeText.

> P.S. Just look at the neighboor thread:
> Subject: minidom toxml() not emitting attribute namespace qualifier

I notice that your example code isn't emitting attribute namespace
qualifier's either :-) One more XML feature that you probably never
have to worry about, if you are able to use as simplistic a format as
you describe above. I notice elsewhere in this thread that this bug has
also been fixed by someone already, whereas if there is a bug in your
parsing code *you* would have had to fix it.

- -- 
Stuart Bishop <zen at shangri-la.dropbear.id.au>
http://shangri-la.dropbear.id.au/

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From essai1 at mci.local  Tue Jun  3 17:19:21 2003
From: essai1 at mci.local (News M Claveau /Hamster-P)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:19:21 +0200
Subject: Python2.3 and win32all wmi problems.
References: <9c9ad528.0306031121.66b71309@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bbj3d9$n7f$1@news-reader12.wanadoo.fr>

(2?me envoi)



And with this next syntax ?    (but i have only P.2.2.2...)

    c =
win32com.client.GetObject(r"winmgmts:{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\.\ro
ot\cimv2")

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau
site :   http://mclaveau.com





From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Jun 24 08:44:26 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:44:26 +0200
Subject: ASP KeyboardInterrupt errors
In-Reply-To: <NkXJa.313877$3n5.208486@news2.central.cox.net>
References: <NkXJa.313877$3n5.208486@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <3EF847AA.1040800@mxm.dk>

Steve Holden wrote:
> [repost due to non-appearance of mailed posting]
> 
> I'm mailing the list in the hope that somebody has come up with a solution
> to the occasional spurious "Keyboard Interrupt" exception that gets raised
> in the ASP environment. It's a little awkward to explain to my client why
> his COM server is failing this way, and the logic of the application makes
> it difficult to trap the exception and repeat what's already been done.
> 
> I can't find anything with Google that makes it look like this problem is
> still being addressed.


I have saved a hack for this:


From:
"Chris Prinos" <cprinos at foliage.com>
Date:
Thu, 30 May 2002 00:21:56 GMT
Newsgroups:
comp.lang.python

I had the same issue with my IIS system, and had to use a workaround that
disables the KeyboardInterrupt from being processed.   The code I use is
shown below.

see http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2001-April/039881.html and
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-April/099002.html for an
explanation


Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------


<!--
These first two script blocks are needed because IIS looks for a SCRIPT
block in the default scripting language of the server. That could be
JScript or VBScript, but it won't be Python.

This is only a problem for this global.asa file.
-->
<SCRIPT LANGUAGE=Jscript RUNAT=Server>
function dummy() {}
</SCRIPT>
<SCRIPT LANGUAGE=VBScript RUNAT=Server>
Sub dummy2
  ignore = "me"
End Sub
</SCRIPT>

<SCRIPT LANGUAGE=Python RUNAT=Server>
def Application_OnStart():
     # this signal code is a workaround for a bug that causes
     # Ctl-C keyboard interrupts to be sent to the python activex engine.
     # Not sure if this is a problem with ASP, or python, but if the
     # handler is not provided, KeyboardInterrupts will pop up in the most
     # inoportune places.
     import signal
     def noOp(a,b): pass
     signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, noOp)
</SCRIPT>




From ed at membled.com  Thu Jun  5 13:57:36 2003
From: ed at membled.com (Ed Avis)
Date: 05 Jun 2003 18:57:36 +0100
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054816332.23346.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l165nkl84v.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>

Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> writes:

>>    table = {'setcolour': lambda x: b = x,
>>             'invertcolour': lambda x: b = inverted[b],

>>However it is not possible to write it as above because anonymous
>>functions don't allow assignment, or at least, not with =.

>    table = {'setcolour': lambda setgs, x: setattr(setgs, 'b', x),
>             'invertcolour': lambda setgs, x: setattr(setgs, 'b', inverted[b]),

>Of course, you can argue that using setattr is simply another way of
>doing assignment (but with a function, so it can be done in a lamda)
>-- which would be true.

Yes.  Or even, instead of having a new class each time it might be
worthwhile to define a 'holder':

    class Holder(object):
      def set(v):
        self.v = v
      def get():
        return self.v

    bh = Holder()
    table = {'setcolour': lambda x: bh.set(x), ...}

So inside the parallel universe of lambda expressions, a.set(b) is
what you say instead of a = b.

It seems a bit perverse that setattr is allowed in lambda expressions
but assignment is not; that you can call setdefault to update a
dictionary, but not simply set the dictionary's elements; that you can
do sys.stdout.write but not print; that you can call a function which
asserts but not call assert.

If lambda accepted statements as well as expressions - or if a
statement could be used as an expression, as in C - then these warts
would not arise.

-- 
Ed Avis <ed at membled.com>



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Thu Jun 26 22:53:14 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 12:43:14 +0950
Subject: stupid question about os.listdir
References: <MTNKa.2930$BM.1845254@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <slrnbfnc0n.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <wwOKa.3311$BM.1852863@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbfndia.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 03:06:04 GMT, Jason Kratz wrote:
> Ben Finney wrote:
>> Please reduce the problem to a simple script
> 
> Ben...I tried the above in a new script file (with print os.listdir)
> and it works as I thought my other should.   Which means i'm doing
> something wrong when passing the path in to my function but I'm not
> sure what.  ugh.

Congratulations!  You've learned an immensely valuable debugging
technique:  Reduce the problem behaviour to the *minimum necessary code*
to reproduce the problem; otherwise, you're searhing in code that, it
turns out, has absolutely no bearing on the problem.

(This leads, in turn, to the principle that writing less code in the
first place leads to fewer bugs -- but that will come naturally as you
learn Python :-)

-- 
 \     "What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?"  -- Anonymous |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From joel at memes.com  Fri Jun 20 14:42:17 2003
From: joel at memes.com (Joel Boehland)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 11:42:17 -0700
Subject: Definition of Aspect Oriented Programming
References: <cb7ba330.0306171854.53378bcf@posting.google.com> <8csIa.133$rN.2282@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <1pv4fvsv2bvmglio3l5be4e9qakim3or4t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3258dfc2.0306201042.30e7c2ce@posting.google.com>

One other aspect-oriented/meta-object programming python toolkit to
play around with:
http://moppy.sourceforge.net

cheers,
Joel Boehland



From steve.horsley at cwcom.cwplc.com  Fri Jun  6 12:34:27 2003
From: steve.horsley at cwcom.cwplc.com (Steve Horsley)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 09:34:27 -0700
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com> <m24r34pzkj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <i39udvo7e11828rkmudo93hj3dr68bft95@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <aa25b022.0306060834.2a02db9e@posting.google.com>

Chuck <cdreward at riaa.com> wrote in message news:<i39udvo7e11828rkmudo93hj3dr68bft95 at 4ax.com>...
> 
> >  >>> v = [1,2]
> >  >>> arg = v
> >  >>> arg.append(3)
> >  >>> v
> >  [1, 2, 3]
> 
> I'm not "getting" variables in Python, then.
> 
> What exactly happens when I say "arg = v"?
> 
> Not "arg is assigned the value [1,2] that v happens to hold"...
> 
> Not "arg now points to v" (can't be, since you can delete v and arg still
> exists)
> 
> It seems to say, "arg now points to what v also points to".. is this correct?
> 
Spot on. Exactly. Except some people may prefer to say "refers to" 
rather than saying "points to". The one list now has two references
to it.


> And so...
> 
> a = 1
> b = a
> 
> is really saying, "b points to what a points to, which is a 'variable' with
> the value of 1, which cannot be changed (immutable)".
> 
> Is this correct?
> 
Yes. In python, even the number 1 is a object - a number sort of object.
try:
>>> dir(1)
and see how many functions the number 1 has! 
Then try (note the space before the dot):
>>> 1 .__hex__
<method-wrapper object at 0x007B5BD0>
>>> 1 .__hex__()
'0x1'

But the fact that numbers are objects is something of a diversion here.


Let's try this:

def foo(arg):
    # This appends to the list that arg refers to
    arg.append('three')
    # make arg refer to something completely different
    arg = 42
                                
# make a list and a variable 'a' that refers to it
a = ['one', 'two']

# make a new variable 'b' and point it at the same 
# list as that a refers to
b = a

# call foo, which will append to our list 
# (and also fiddle with a different list of its own)
foo(b)

# remove one of the references to our list
del a

# remove the other reference to our list. 
# Poof! the list gets garbage collected because no-one has a 
# reference to it any more. It's gone and forgotten.
del b


> If so, I *think* I'm starting to "get it"...  ;-)
> 
I'm sure you are.

Steve



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Fri Jun 20 13:37:26 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 10:37:26 -0700
Subject: a clean way to define dictionary
References: <3EEFEBFD.8090003@nospam.com> <rfVHa.105923$pR3.2320136@news1.tin.it> <yfs65n39z72.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <just-0D60BB.18081218062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <yfsof0v880w.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <2259b0e2.0306190831.63d42265@posting.google.com> <yfswufi6j86.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <2259b0e2.0306191332.664300c0@posting.google.com> <yfsof0t7gwp.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <2259b0e2.0306200552.6e41358d@posting.google.com> <yfs7k7g7q64.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306200937.483de18@posting.google.com>

Alexander Schmolck <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<yfs7k7g7q64.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk>...
> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:
> 
> > Sorry for the typo, of course I meant __setitem__/__getitem__. 
> > I am saying that a workaround for the change of the constructor signature 
> > is to subclass dict and to override the constructor. There is 
> > not a big penalty and you seems to agree (your last sentence). 
> > Overriding __getitem__ gives a big penalty, that's true, but this has 
> > nothing to do with the change of the constructor in Python 2.3, right ?
> > I do not understand where the source of the confusion is (if any).
>  
> OK, I see now what you mean. I don't agree the penalty for overriding
> __getitem__ "has nothing to dow ith change of the constructor" in the context
> of deciding whether it would be more desirable to 'enhance' dicts with a new
> 'default' option or the syntactic sugar behavior.

Still I don't understand your point. Anyway, the access
time to DefaultDict objects with Python 2.3b1 is ~40% *faster*
than with Python 2.2.0. 


  Michele



From dwblas at yahoo.com  Mon Jun  9 16:25:48 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (DavidW Blaschke)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:25:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Error checking in Python
Message-ID: <20030609202548.80290.qmail@web21609.mail.yahoo.com>

With all due respect to the others who have posted a
reply,  a very small slowdown is better than having a
program abort.  You then have to track down the
reason, and if this is on a program written some time
ago, it may take a while to figure out that someone
was passing a string when the function expected an
int.  Also, it is proper programming etiqiette for a
function to ensure that is has the proper type, and
when necessary, to do bounds checking as well.  That
way, you can pass a variable to a function without
having to find the source every time, to check and see
what kind of a variable it requires.

BTW type checking can be done with:
     if type(1) == type( var ) :
        type("A") == 
        etc.
although, it is easier to simply use:
     new_ var = int(var)
              = float(var)
              = str(var)
     etc.
Always check for "None" or an empty string first, and
you have to return some sort of default error
indicator if the variable is empty or can not be
processed.
If you are concerned about slowdowns caused by a loop,
then simply code the function with a default that
tells it whether it should check. as in:

def my_funct( var, check=1 ):
    if check :
        ## type and bounds checking on var

In general, you should be able to call a function
without worrying about any of the consequences.  It is
the functions job to verify and alter when, and if
possible.  An old, old saying is to write code that is
iron-clad, meaning that it can handle almost anything
that is thrown at it.  Sissy functions cost much more
in the long run.  Good question though.  It shows that
you want to develop good programming habits.

D.W.

> --- In python-list at yahoogroups.com, BGM
> <no.spam at c...> wrote:
> > 
> > Hello all:
> > 
> > I am new to python, coming from a modest C
> background. Recently, I 
> was
> > writing some custom module in Python and I was
> wondering about one 
> thing:
> > Since the user of the module can pass any argument
> they wish, then 
> it
> > seemed like a good idea to check ,say, for type
> errors within the
> > functions in the module. However, it occurred to
> me that if some of 
> these
> > functions are used in in the inner loops of some
> program, there 
> could be a significant
> > slow-down. When writing their own modules, what do
> the users of the 
> list
> > usually do? Do you leave the responsibility for
> type checking to the 
> user
> > of the functions, or do you implement this in the
> modules, or some
> > combination of these two approaches?
> > 
> > I apologize if there is a simple mechanism that
> Python provides that 
> I
> > have perhaps not learned about. (Other than
> throwing an exception 
> during
> > runtime)
> > 
> > -------------------
> > BGM.
> > 
> > -- 
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com




From MK at foo.com  Fri Jun 27 10:00:40 2003
From: MK at foo.com (MK)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:00:40 +0200
Subject: Exposing object model in Python?
References: <bdffi1$skho2$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bdgvk5$sid7t$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <IrXKa.333801$3n5.129469@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <bdhilp$ta2n6$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote

> If you can get a look at "Python Programming on Win32" by Mark Hammond and
> Andy Robinson that will show you a number of ways to do this, including
> writing a COM server in Python and providing Python scripting facilities
to
> your users.


Is COM platform-specific? I believe it is, but I may be wrong.
(Anyway I'm sure it's platform specific, no matter what MS says.)
If it is platform-specific, then that's not what I need.
I'd like to expose my object model on every Python-enabled
platform.





From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jun  5 01:51:57 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Jun 2003 05:51:57 GMT
Subject: Including binary files in a .py file; advice needed
References: <3EDEB0A6.202@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <bbmlpt$qv0$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:53:26 +1000, Gary Duncan <gmduncan at netspace.net.au> wrote:

>
>Here's what I want to do; distribute a .py file (a GUI app) with
>an embedded (binary) .GIF file (a photo of me at 1 yo ;) rather than
>distribute both separately. For convenience, mainly.
>
>
>If in a Unix shell script, I'd uuencode the .GIF and include the 
>printable-ASCII file in it as a 'here' file. When executed the script
>would 'cat' it out to e.g. a /tmp file from the main body of the script, 
>then uudecode the /tmp file to revert to the original .GIF file.
>
>I imagine in Python, one could place the uuencoded file (lines)
>as a triple-quoted string, then uudecode it the .py program.
>
>Anything better ?
>
I think uuencode can generate triple quotes as data, so I'd try base64.
E.g., this should accept a gif file name and generate a python program to stdout
that has the gif embedded and which can be executed to extract the gif to a
file (you supply name), with optional shell start on it:
Not very tested!!

====< mkshowgif >================================================
front = r'''import base64
import os
b64gif = """\
'''
back = '''"""

def showit(filename, show=False):
    fgif = file(filename, 'wb')
    fgif.write(base64.decodestring(b64gif))
    fgif.close()
    if show: os.system('start %s' % filename) # assumes file extension association
if __name__=='__main__':
    import sys
    args = sys.argv[1:]
    if args[:1] == ['-show']:
        show = True; args.pop(0)
    else: show = False
    if len(args)!=1:
        print 'Usage: python %s [-show] gifOutputFile => writes file and' % sys.argv[0]
        print '   starts it if -show opt'
        raise SystemExit
    showit(args[0], show)
'''

if __name__== '__main__':
    import sys, base64
    if len(sys.argv) != 2:
        print 'Usage: python mkshowgif giffile => showgif.py to stdout'
        raise SystemExit
    gif = file(sys.argv[1],'rb').read()
    print front
    print base64.encodestring(gif)
    print back
=================================================================
I borrowed the python site python gif for a test:

[22:51] C:\pywk\clp>python mkshowgif.py pythonHi.gif > showgif.py

[22:51] C:\pywk\clp>showgif.py -show showgif.gif

This sequence should generate showgif.py (note redirection may require explicit python
on some windows platforms, like NT4), and the second command should write showgif.gif
and start whatever your windows thinks .gif is associated with.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com  Thu Jun  5 10:14:58 2003
From: newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com (Daniel Fackrell)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:14:58 -0600
Subject: Changing python process name (or argv[0])
References: <1054739086.3ede0a8ec5f95@mcherm.com> <mailman.1054768569.11849.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3edf5063$1_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>

mike wakerly wrote:
> Hi Michael and Skip,
>
> Thanks for the responses!
>
> On Wednesday 04 June 2003 08:04 am, Michael Chermside wrote:
>> Mike writes:
>>> I think the functionality is desirable for some
>>> (at least on Unix python), and this simple trick hardly warrants an
>>> extra module if it is indeed acceptable in the python world.
>>
>> Mike, you have it exactly backwards. This simple trick hardly
>> warrents inclusion in core Python when it can be implemented
>> by an extra module. The fact that it _is_ a simple trick is
>> a good reason to keep it as a module. The fact that it might
>> not be portable to all operating systems is another good
>> reason. Don't be afraid to use modules... that's what they're
>> for!
>
> Aiyee, I was worried about this; it is what my 'acceptable in the
> python world' qualifier was for. It may be a simple trick, or it may
> be expected functionality (if uncommon). Yes, I am all for using
> modules where appropriate; not everybody's hack needs to be part of
> python (see Perl..), etc.. I've only just discovered this trick and
> couldn't find much discussion on whether or not it is considered a
> kludge.
>
> (An 'Argv_write' module just seemed a bit inelegant to my eyes;
> perhaps I underestimate the rarity of its usefulness, but [as in my
> original problem], I see few other ways to 'hide python' from
> unintelligent interfaces.)
>
> So, it would seem that rewriting argv[0] is indeed not a necessary
> standard feature, since, according to Skip:
>
>> In addition, the idea was rejected by Guido in the past (I remember
>> because I proposed it).  I doubt he's changed his mind on the topic
>> in the past few years.
>
> I'll have to do some homework and find that thread; maybe it will
> reveal why argv rewriting is good/bad/standard/uncommon.
>
> Thanks all,
> Mike

Hrm... maybe I'm just naive on this point, but it seems to me that having
python programs show up by name is ps, top, etc. would be a nice benefit,
especially where many different python processes might be running
simultaneously.  I'd even consider that such should be the default.  I for
one would much rather see ChatServer.py, intermud.py, and python listed by
ps (for a chat server, intermud daemon, and interactive python shell,
respectively), than python, python, and python.  Should this really require
finding, downloading, and installing a non-standard module?

--
Daniel Fackrell (newsgroups.NOSPAM at dfackrell.mailshell.com)
When we attempt the impossible, we can experience true growth.





From johnroth at ameritech.net  Thu Jun 26 15:34:58 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:34:58 -0400
Subject: Test-Driven Dev. (Kent Beck) Python Chapter Question
References: <6e07b825.0306252246.16fa828@posting.google.com> <3EFAF786.76B66629@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <vfmilbbkm6lm31@news.supernews.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3EFAF786.76B66629 at engcorp.com...
> "yaipa h." wrote:
> >
> > In Chapter 20. Cleaning Up After
> >
> > When adding "tearDown()" to "TestCase" in xUnit, the TestCase method
run()
> > suddenly takes on a new argument named "result."  In the next line
result
> > is used as "result.testStarted()."  Oddly, when TestCase.run() is
called by
> > "TestCaseTest" it is called without an argument, so of course Python
complains.
> > If I drop "result" from the argument list and strike the line
> > "result.testStarted()" everything works fine. I've looked and
> > there seems to be no code download page or errata available.
> >
> > Anyone had similar problems with this chapter or am I reading over
> > something here?
>
> I think you're right.  I looked ahead at page 114 and found what I
> think is the first place where run() actually takes a TestResult
> object, in a later chapter.
>
> It looks like this was an early mistake, as it appears even in the
first
> draft of the book which had this chapter, from March 9 last year.
> (See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/files/ for
ref.)

I agree, it looks like a misprint. There's nothing in the narrative in
Chapter
20 to justify putting in the collecting parameter, while there's a
discussion in
Chapter 23, including all the changes to the various calls that resulted
from
adding the parameter.

> Yaipa, if you submit this errata report on the testdrivendevelopment
> group on Yahoo Groups it would probably be appreciated.
>
> -Peter

John Roth





From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Jun  5 13:59:48 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 17:59:48 GMT
Subject: Help with dictionary
References: <9afd3f36.0306042301.5243a9e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <oyLDa.48314$fT5.38656@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

[Jim Shady]
> I have a dictionary of the sort:
>
> {(1, (21353, 21418)): 3900, (2, (53006, 53164)): 3800, (0, (19697,
> 19763)): 4100}

Dictionaries have an arbitrary ordering and so they can't be
sorted directly.


> I need to re-sort this dictionary with the first element of the tuple
> in the keys. A sorted dictionary of the above would be:
>
> {(0, (19697, 19763)): 4100, (1, (21353, 21418)): 3900, (2, (53006,
> 53164)): 3800}

Make a copy of the dictionary into a list of items.  Then, sort the list:

>>> d = {(1, (21353, 21418)): 3900, (2, (53006, 53164)): 3800, (0, (19697,
19763)): 4100}
>>> it = d.items()
>>> it.sort()
>>> it
[((0, (19697, 19763)), 4100), ((1, (21353, 21418)), 3900), ((2, (53006, 53164)),
3800)]


Raymond Hettinger





From webmaster at watchtowerDOTcom.pl  Sat Jun 21 23:31:16 2003
From: webmaster at watchtowerDOTcom.pl (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Jaros=B3aw_Zabie=B3=B3o?=)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 05:31:16 +0200
Subject: mod_python hell in Apache/Windows XP
References: <6GTIa.32066$111.24282@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <t7k8fv4mtcju19oeu9cetos78mf2atu5ic@4ax.com> <ZwZIa.162283$3Sm.70490@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <si8afvcm9ru7uppjarthaa3c2vesl8lt4p@4ax.com>

On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 13:59:21 GMT, "Tim" <tim.harford at rogers.com>
wrote:

>Any advice on the best way to configure for CGI is much appreciated...

You must check and add missing lines to your Apache httpd.conf file:

	LoadModule python_module  modules/mod_python.so

	SetHandler python-program
	PythonHandler mod_python.cgihandler




From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Jun  5 05:12:36 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:12:36 +0200
Subject: How to get the hostname?
Message-ID: <bbn1i9$ap8f0$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Hi!

Is there a way to get the hostname with python?

fd=open("/etc/HOSTNAME") or getting the environment variable $HOST
is not nice.

 thomas




From m at moshez.org  Sun Jun  1 13:32:29 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 1 Jun 2003 17:32:29 -0000
Subject: medusa http server
In-Reply-To: <bbd7ub$a42$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <bbd7ub$a42$1@panix1.panix.com>, <bafop3$2lsi$1@news.vol.cz> <bafs5q$c85$1@panix3.panix.com> <mailman.1053946662.10746.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030601173229.3640.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On 1 Jun 2003, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

> >% mktap web --path=/var/www/htdocs --port=80
> >% sudo twisted -f web.tap
> 
> Yes, that's all that's required
<snip>
[about the using-twistedweb.html HOWTO]
> That's actually a moderately long document.  If you want to emphasize
> how quickly a Twisted web server can be deployed, you should create a
> separate document called "Fast start: Twisted web server".  That would
> include a minimal set of install instructions so that people don't need
> to read separate pages.

Hrm, a good idea. I might actually do that -- "Bringing Up a Twisted Web In
Five Minutes" might be a win.

> Note that I'm not complaining about the current setup, but you seem to
> imply that it ought to be even easier.

Yes. I want it to be easy enough that people will say "nah, let's just
install Twisted Web" :)
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From dwblas at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  5 16:02:13 2003
From: dwblas at yahoo.com (DavidW Blaschke)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:02:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Iteration through a text file.
Message-ID: <20030605200213.90994.qmail@web21603.mail.yahoo.com>

You want to write it in a way that you will
understand.  If you are a newbie then you want to keep
it simple.  (Nice word newbie, no negative connations,
but instead is someone trying to improve).  Anyway, I
would suggest that you spilt the data up into
understandable portions.

The following is some code that I think does what you
want.  It stores all the lines for one server in a
list.  That list is then processed by a function and
the detail is printed.  Then, the next server is
processed, etc.  If you feel more comfortable writing
the data for one server to a file and then processing
it, do that by all means.  Do it in a way that you
understand.  This could all be done with nested loops,
but I donlt think that would work for you.  BTW, if at
any time I sound like I'm talking down to you please
forgive me.  It is just the way my own simple mind
works.   Note the ErrorPrint function.  Put that
somewhere so you can import it anytime you use
try/except.  It took a while for me to find out how to
do this, so I hope it will save you some grief.  If
you save this message as a text file, you can delete
all of these first comments and run the program as is
on a linux system.  It will give you an error from
ErrorPrint() because it can't find the filename that's
on the final line.  Then change the filename to
whatever yours is and run it again.

D.W.

#!/usr/bin/python

##  Program Name: Print_Stuff.py

import sys
import string

def PrintMain( filename ) :
    ##-----  Read the file
    try :
        fp = open( filename, "r" )
        data = fp.readlines()
        fp.close()

        server_list = []
        server_ctr = 0
        server_name = ""
        for eachRec in data :
            ##---  Eliminate any upper/lower case
errors
            new_rec = string.upper( eachRec )
            ##---  Replace newline and end of rec
            new_rec = string.replace( new_rec, "\n", "
" )
            new_rec = string.strip( new_rec )

            ##--- Note that we only want to find
"server" if it is the
            ##    first word, not if it's burried in
the text
            found_server = cmp( new_rec[:7], "SERVER,"
)
            if 0 == found_server :

                ##--- don't process if this is the
first server found
                if server_ctr :
                    Process_Server( server_name,
server_list )

                server_ctr += 1
                substrs = string.split( new_rec )
                server_name = substrs[1]
                server_list = []           ## blank
the list
            else :
                server_list.append( new_rec )

        ##---  Process the final batch of recs
        Process_Server( server_name, server_list )
    except :
        print "Could NOT open filename %s" %
(filename)
        ErrorPrint()

## END PrintMain()

##=====================================================================
##   Process the recs associated with a server
##=====================================================================
def Process_Server( server_name, rec_list ) :
    ##---  Now, look for system availability
    ##---  I like to use a field with the look-for
sting in it,
    ##     that way it can be easily changed 
    look_for = "SYSTEM AVAILABILITY"
    len_lf = len(look_for)
    found = 0

    print "\n----> for server %s" % (server_name)
    for eachRec in rec_list :
        found_server = cmp( eachRec[:len_lf], look_for
)
        if 0 == found_server:
            found = 1
            ##--- just print it - you can massage it
any way you like
            substrs = string.split( eachRec )
            len_subs = len(substrs)

            ##--- don't print substrs[0] = "Server" or

            ##    substrs[1] = "Availability"
            for j in range( 2, len_subs ) :
                print "       %s" % (substrs[j])
            print

    ##---  No "System Availability" found
    if not found :
        print "       N/A - None\n"

## END Process_Server()

##=====================================================================
##   print details of try / except errors
##=====================================================================
def ErrorPrint( ) :
    import Tkinter
    import traceback
    et, ev, tb = sys.exc_info()
    while tb :
        co = tb.tb_frame.f_code
        filename = "Filename = " + str(co.co_filename)
        line_no =  "Error Line # = " +
str(traceback.tb_lineno(tb))
        print filename
        print line_no
        tb = tb.tb_next
    print "et = ",
    print et
    print "ev = ",
    print ev

## END ErrorPrint()

#=====================================================================
if __name__ == "__main__" :
    filename = "print_stuff.txt"
    PrintMain( filename )


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jun  9 19:11:39 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:11:39 -0600
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
In-Reply-To: <l1brx7dk9h.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>; from ed@membled.com on Mon, Jun 09, 2003 at 10:16:26PM +0100
References: <mailman.1055139135.30925.python-list@python.org> <l1brx7dk9h.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <20030609171139.B2699@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ed Avis:
> Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:
> 
> >    raise_stmt ::= "raise" [expression ["," expression]]
> 
> Why not go further and make it look like a normal function call, that
> can take zero one or two arguments?
> 
>     raise_stmt ::= "raise" "(" [expression ["," expression]] ")"

Two reasons:

First, it would increase the backwards incompatibility, which is
already quite large.  Under such a change, *all* raise statements
would need to be revised; under the change proposed, those who
have been using the One True Syntax for raising exceptions (i.e.,
instantiating explicitly) are exempt.

Second, I don't object to raise being a statement; in particular,
I don't think its being a statement makes any code less clear.
Implicit exception instantiation, however, I do believe to be
significantly less clear than explicit instantiation.

(I also don't have any particular wish to use raise in lambdas.  I
have followed the timbot's alleged injunction to learn to love the
return key.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk              Aral: "Confusion to the enemy, boy."
staschuk at telusplanet.net    Mark: "Turn-about is fair play, sir."
                             -- _Mirror Dance_, Lois McMaster Bujold




From tom1 at launchbird.com  Mon Jun  2 19:05:36 2003
From: tom1 at launchbird.com (Tom Hawkins)
Date: 2 Jun 2003 16:05:36 -0700
Subject: ANN: Confluence -> Python for Hardware Verification
Message-ID: <833030c0.0306021505.43d5cdf6@posting.google.com>

Over the weekend we released Confluence 0.4.6: the first
version to included the new Python model generator.

Confluence is a functional programming language for hardware
and logic design.  Though its syntax is much simpler than
either Verilog or VHDL, it's semantics enables a level of
design flexibility beyond the reach of either HDL.

Til now, Confluence compiled into Verilog and VHDL for
logic synthesis and cycle-accurate C for high-speed simulation
and hardware-software co-development.

With the addition of the Python model generator, hardware
designers can now use the high-level constructs of our
favorite language (Python!) to perform functional verification.

We were very surprised by Python's simulation performance;
Python simulation of our benchmarks was right on par with
HDL event-based simulators.  Not bad for a "scripting" language!

For more info on Confluence:

  http://www.launchbird.com/

To see Confluence output, including generated Python models
visit any of the Confluence projects at:

  http://www.opencores.org/

Regards,
Tom

--
Tom Hawkins
Launchbird Design Systems, Inc.
952-200-3790
tom1 at launchbird.com
http://www.launchbird.com/



From uche at ogbuji.net  Mon Jun  9 09:31:35 2003
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 06:31:35 -0700
Subject: looking for a simple XML api for python
References: <Tr9za.228673$pa5.224690@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <3H9za.47086$h42.8645@twister.nyc.rr.com> <Bmbza.211$Iq.22242517@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0306090531.5d0fd55a@posting.google.com>

Van Gale <news at exultants.org> wrote in message news:<Bmbza.211$Iq.22242517 at newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>...
> There are at least two other choices:
> 
> ElementTree: http://effbot.org/zone/element-index.htm
> 
> cDomlette: http://4suite.org/index.xhtml
> 
> I believe the 4Suite XPath module works with cDomlette.

Yep.

http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2003-01-01/domlettes
http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2003-01-01/basic-xpath
http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2003-01-01/basic-xslt

BTW, ElementTree is very nice, and the latest, 1.2alpha1 mentions
limited XPath support.

--Uche
http://uche.ogbuji.net



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Fri Jun 27 09:15:20 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:15:20 GMT
Subject: Exposing object model in Python?
References: <bdffi1$skho2$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bdgvk5$sid7t$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <IrXKa.333801$3n5.129469@news2.central.cox.net>

"MK" <MK at foo.com> wrote in message
news:bdgvk5$sid7t$1 at ID-174077.news.dfncis.de...> > [...]
>
> Thanks for your input. Apologies for not being clear enough.
>
> I'm writing a classical desktop application, using wxPython
> and some other libraries. I'm interested to expose its
> object model a la Microsoft's VBA. That is, I want to allow
> my users to tinker with the app, i.e. write their own macros
> in Python in a miniature IDE, within the app. I'd also like to ship
> the program as a standalone app, using py2exe.
>

If you can get a look at "Python Programming on Win32" by Mark Hammond and
Andy Robinson that will show you a number of ways to do this, including
writing a COM server in Python and providing Python scripting facilities to
your users.

Unfortunately the techniques used are a little too complicated to describe
in a newsgroup posting.

with-apologies-to-pierre-de-fermat-ly y'rs  - steve
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From guy.flowers at Machineworks.com  Tue Jun 10 09:27:22 2003
From: guy.flowers at Machineworks.com (Guy)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 06:27:22 -0700
Subject: Building Python
Message-ID: <f3ff61d9.0306100527.63417577@posting.google.com>

Hi

I'm trying to build python on a sparc "Sun Microsystems Inc. SunOS
5.5.1". I have already built python-2.2.2 on another machine which
seems to work well.

I've tried both python-2.2.2 and python-2.2.3 on the sparc both come
up with the same error. Which can be seen below.

In file included from Python/thread_pthread.h:9,
                 from Python/thread.c:113:
/usr/include/pthread.h:238: parse error before `destructor'
/usr/include/pthread.h:238: parse error before `)'
make: *** [Python/thread.o] Error 1

Can any one make any suggestions about a fix. 

TIA
Guy



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jun 15 18:18:46 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 15 Jun 2003 22:18:46 GMT
Subject: raw strings under windows
References: <DgwGa.47757$Io.4419696@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <TTVGa.91760$pR3.1949046@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bcirc6$ss3$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:12:35 GMT, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

><posted & mailed>
>
>Cecil H. Whitley wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> When doing the following:
>> 
>> #!/usr/bin/env python
>> 
>> path = r"c:\python23\"
>> 
>> I get a syntax error, unexpected EOL with singlequoted string.  It was my
>> (mis?) understanding that raw strings did not process escaped characters?
>
>They don't, in that the backslash remains in the string resulting from
>the raw literal, BUT so does the character right after the backslash,
That seems like a contradiction to me. I.e., the logic that says to
include "...the character right after the backslash, unconditionally." must
be noticing (processing) backslashes.

>unconditionally.  As a result, a raw string literal cannot end with an
>odd number of backslashes.  If they did otherwise, it would instead be
>impossible to include a single quote character in a single-quoted raw
So? Those cases would be 99.99% easy to get around with alternative quotes,
especially considering that """ and ''' are alternative quotes.

>string literal, etc.  Raw string literals are designed mainly to ease
>the task of entering regular expressions, and for that purpose an odd
>number of ending backslashes is never needed, while making inclusion of
>quote characters harder _would_ be an issue, so the design choice was
>easy to make.
ISTM only inclusion of same-as-initial quote characters at the end would
be a problem. Otherwise UIAM triple quotes take care of all but sequences with
embedded triple quotes, which are pretty unusual, and pretty easy to spell
alternatively (e.g. in tokenizer-concatenated pieces, with adjacent string
literals separated by optional whitespace).

Was the design choice made before triple quotes? Otherwise what is the use case
that would cause real difficulty? Of course, now there is a backwards-compatibility
constraint, so that r"""xxxx\"""" must mean r'xxxx\"' and not induce a syntax error.

>
>Of course people who use raw string literals to represent DOS paths might
>wish otherwise, but as has been pointed out it's not a big problem in
>any case -- not only, as you note:
>
>> Of course
>> path = "c:\\python23\\"
>> 
>> works just fine.

I wouldn't mind a raw-string format that really did treat backslashes
as ordinary characters. Perhaps upper case R could introduce that. E.g.,

   path = R"c:\python23\"
>
>but so, almost invariably, does 'c:/python23/' (Microsoft's C runtime
>libraries accept / interchangeably with \ as part of file path syntax,
>and Python relies on the C runtime libraries and so does likewise).
>
Another alternative would be a chosen-delimiter raw format, e.g.,

   path = d'|c:\python23\|

or

   path = d'$c:\python23\$

I.e., the first character after d' is the chosen delimiter.
Even matching-brackets delimiting could be possible

   d'[c:\python23\] == d'<c:\python23\> == d'{c:\python23\}

by recognizing [, <, or { delimiters specially. Space as a delimiter would be iffy practice.

BTW, I think I would have preferred a chosen-delimiter form with alternate raw and normal
designators over triple quoting. If upper case meant raw, D'' or D"" would have been equivalent
to most current uses of r' and r" and there would be more flexibility. The d' normal format
would treat \ as non-magic in front of the chosen delimiter, and otherwise recognizing standard
control character spellings as now.

While I'm at it (;-) and last but not least, to be able to paste arbitrary text into
a string literal, some other delimiting method is needed. A number exist for other text
contexts (e.g., perl sources, MIME format, etc.) so I guess it's a matter of whether
the itch is sufficient. Apparently not yet ;-)

BTW, has anyone heard of a terminating delimiter in the form of an escape-introduced hash
of the preceding text in hex? It would mean computing a running hash for such a string and
checking every time a hash-escape was encountered to see if the next characters were a
matching hex hash. In a lot of cases the "hash" could probably just be the byte count,
but in the extreme an md5 hash could be used. Twice if you want to get weird and hash
the first hash to check two successive hashes. That should let you delimit pretty much
any unmodified arbitrary text ;-)

enough ... ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jun 19 08:29:23 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 13:29:23 +0100
Subject: ftplib question
References: <3ef19a1c$1@news.012.net.il>
Message-ID: <87isr2qmho.fsf@pobox.com>

"Avner Ben" <avner at skilldesign.com> writes:

> How do I find the year of a remote file in ftplib?
> 
> retrlines('LIST') seems to include only month day and hour.

Forgot to say: if the year is equal to the current year, the time is
shown, with no year.  Otherwise, the year is shown, with no time.


John



From stevesusenet at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 19 11:20:28 2003
From: stevesusenet at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 08:20:28 -0700
Subject: Is python good for making database work short?
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095@posting.google.com> <slrnbf26as.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <mailman.1055988995.15237.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f8cb8c9.0306190720.13833b52@posting.google.com>

Paul McNett <p at ulmcnett.com> wrote
> I as the developer need to use a common dialect of SQL that will work wit
> h 
> whatever backend the user chooses, whether it is Oracle, MSSQL, MySQL, 
> Gadfly, or whatever. 
> Thoughts on this?

I used INTRODUCTION TO SQL 3RD EDITION by Rick van der Lans ISBN 0-201-59618-0
to learn SQL.

Don't let the "INTRODUCTION" fool you, the book is very short and very thorough.

Anyway, the book explicitly states it only teahes SQL you can use anywhere.

Steve



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jun 16 10:15:46 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:15:46 +0200
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <3EEDD203.54F5672B@engcorp.com>
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>
	<3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com>
	<BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it>
	<3EEDDA04.8000005@netspace.net.au> <3EEDD203.54F5672B@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3EEDD112.7060702@ghaering.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> To take up Alex' point: passing in the wrong type is probably much
> less common than, say, using the wrong value, or mixing up the order
> of arguments (and many functions take a bunch of arguments of the
> same type, so type-checking doesn't help there!).

There is something that helps with confusing the order of arguments: 
*Only* use named parameters.

I've heard of Ada 95 projects that mandate this style for 
procedure/function calls.

-- Gerhard




From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Sun Jun 22 08:30:19 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 22 Jun 2003 05:30:19 -0700
Subject: python applets inside <OBJECT> anyone?
Message-ID: <cb035744.0306220430.8ec6f24@posting.google.com>

The following is from the W3C HTML4.0 specification, but I
could not get it to work anyhow (using "myscript.py"
containing "print '<p>12:00</p>'" instead of the URI in the
example).  Can you?  Why is this "python applet" example
there in the HTML 4 spec, is there any browser supporting it
(my IE6 doesn't even give the "An animated clock" message or
another error message).  They should not put Python applet
examples in specifications that don't work, this makes
Python look bad!


HTML 4.0  Sect. 13.3.1 "Rules for rendering objects:"
--------------------------------------------------------------
In the following example, we insert an analog clock applet
in a document via the OBJECT element. The applet, written in
the Python language, requires no additional data or run-time
values. The classid attribute specifies the location of the
applet:

<P><OBJECT classid="http://www.miamachina.it/analogclock.py">
An animated clock.
</OBJECT>
--------------------------------------------------------------



From darrenteo82 at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 17 03:34:15 2003
From: darrenteo82 at yahoo.com (Darren Teo)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:34:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <20030617073415.6384.qmail@web40408.mail.yahoo.com>

  

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jun  4 06:04:35 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:04:35 +0100
Subject: Help with coroutine-based state machines?
References: <3ED622CA.4B01E3C1@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054249933.7365.python-list@python.org> <3ED76105.CB8F3ECF@hotmail.com> <mailman.1054317657.5272.python-list@python.org> <3EDC69DF.A46A97D4@hotmail.com> <xLGdnbw6stHmcEGjXTWcoA@comcast.com> <3EDD05FA.CDE86800@hotmail.com> <adScnRMEYMTJikCjXTWcqg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3EDDC433.133B8F11@hotmail.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> After reading your response to my response to your essay, I think we
> can combine ideas and converge on the following essentials, with
> implementation details left out:

[ Excellent model for generators and coroutines elided ]

Thanks, Terry, for that excellent summary.

I'm really glad that you raised the problems with my original essay, because now
I have a much clearer picture of what is happening. Or rather, my picture is
almost the same, but my terminology when describing it and using it will be
*much* cleaner.

This kind of collaborative model development is, to my mind, what Usenet is
great for. When I first approached the generators and coroutines concepts, I
really needed to find a discussion similar to the one we've just had, to help me
clarify my thoughts. And now, thanks to the magic of Usenet archives like Google
Groups, etc, our model is preserved for all to see and use.

Thanks, Terry, it's been fun :-)

And of course, thanks to all the other contributors to this thread.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From a at b.c  Wed Jun  4 09:41:24 2003
From: a at b.c (SFBayling)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:41:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: converting decimal to binary
References: <mailman.1053741576.26298.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns9390959941A2Babc@194.106.32.13>

"Tim Peters" <tim_one at email.msn.com> wrote in
news:mailman.1053741576.26298.python-list at python.org: 

> [Michael P. Soulier]
>>>     I'm trying to find a simple way to convert a decimal number to a
>>> binary string representation. I could do this the hard way, but as
>>> it's a one-liner in perl, I'm hoping there's an easy way to do this
>>> in python.

> OTOH, there's curious asymmetry here:
> 
>>>> int('00011000000', 2)
> 192
>>>>
> 
> That is, "the other direction" is built in.  

I was hoping there would be something to continue the existing patterns 
like;
hex(value)
oct(value)
bin(value)

or perhaps

print "%d" % value  #Decimal
print "%x" % value  #Hex
print "%o" % value  #Octal
print "%b" % value  #Binary

I ended up finding the baseconvert module in the CookBook as well and 
changing it to default to decimal->binary.

def baseconvert(number, fromdigits=BASE10, todigits=BASE2):

newsgroup-post-testingly yours,
sfb.
---
(First time back in newsgroups in a while, I can only hope this works 
properly).



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jun 21 23:16:25 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:16:25 -0400
Subject: random function with strings
References: <3ef51a51$0$8029$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net>
Message-ID: <3EF51F89.22D7E78E@engcorp.com>

ataraxia2500 wrote:
> 
> I have a function that goes through a directory and I would like to remove
> randomly one of the files contained in that directory. I checked out the
> random() function in the documentation but it only deals with integers.

Use random.choice() instead.



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Jun 13 07:41:54 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:41:54 +0200
Subject: Bug in v1.5.2 Websucker GUI?
References: <7isqqi$8ki@vern.bga.com> <bc88g9$2uv$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bc9ckd$mb5$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bcajpg$9cn$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <bcaqmd$eo9$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bcat85$4cn$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <bccdgp$gr$1@news.hccnet.nl>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

>I posted your bug report using my login.

Thanks, it seems to be registered  with "[ 753592 ] websucker bug".
Also thanks to you and other posters for their valuable comments. Of
course, now that I've posted about it here, there's no visible
malfunction in sourceforges page any more.

Anton





From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Jun 12 21:20:13 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 21:20:13 -0400
Subject: Use __del__ methods to improve gc?
In-Reply-To: <vegt5ii1vo4v81@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAENHEJAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Edward K. Ream]
> My app has unlimited undo.  As a result, most "user" data never truly
> gets deleted: the undo stack keeps references to all such data alive
> "forever".
>
> I am wondering whether it would be a good idea to put dummy __del__
> methods in the user data classes.  Would this help the gc by telling
> the gc what not to look at?

As others have explained, no, gc scans everything when it's time for it to
get scanned <wink>.  An interesting question may be why you suspect gc
*needs* help.  For example, is gc taking a lot of time in your app?





From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Mon Jun  9 12:11:08 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:11:08 -0500 
Subject: simple, old-style graphic  ?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F06233050504A9@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Alessandro de Manzano [mailto:demanzano at playstos.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 11:07 AM
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'ld need a little suggestion :-)
> 
> For educational purposes I'ld find a Python module (Windows 
> platform) to draw simple 2D graphic (even 3D if possible,
> but is not a requirement). Like very old Basics, so lines,
> points, circles, rectangles, colors, simple text strings, etc.
>

You can use Tkinter.Canvas, it does this, and plenty more.

> 
> As last resort I thought about some OpenGL module but I would 
> really prefer something easier and simpler.
> 

Planning on killing any ants with an H bomb this week?
:-)

>
> Have you some idea ?
> 

Tkinter.Canvas is good for you.

>
> I accept any hints and suggestions :)
> 

Hmmm... Tkinter.Canvas

*wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*
saynomore saynomore.

> 
> Many thanks in advance!
>

-gca
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From grante at visi.com  Fri Jun 13 15:18:15 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 13 Jun 2003 19:18:15 GMT
Subject: Octets calculation?
References: <65eFa.634621$Si4.577158@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <bc673d$f0tpn$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EE79F73.E08C2554@alcyone.com> <mailman.1055369063.13758.python-list@python.org> <3ee88ede$0$645$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <bcbb0q$hf4ub$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3eea2377$0$1394$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <bcbb0q$hf4ub$1 at ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>, Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de) wrote:
>
>> It's not rare in the DSP world.  TI's line of FP DSPs all had
>> 32-bit bytes.  Where "byte" is used in the sense of the "C"
>> standard as the smallest unite of addressable memory.
> 
> I thought the C standard used the word "char" for that, not
> "byte".

Both.  In the C standard "char" and byte "byte" are equivalent.
Using "byte" is more confusing, and if I had written it I would
have stuck with "char".  But they didn't ask me...  ;)

> If DSP people really use the word "byte" that way, they're
> utterly barking, IMO. It's just too confusing for words. (Or
> should I say octet-groups?-)

They generally only use it that way when they're dealing with
the C standard, and I, for one, do prefer "char".

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  How's it going in
                                  at               those MODULAR LOVE UNITS??
                               visi.com            



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Fri Jun 13 21:24:07 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:24:07 -0600
Subject: Type hierarchy
In-Reply-To: <200306132243.45270.zathras@thwackety.com>; from zathras@thwackety.com on Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 10:43:45PM +0100
References: <mailman.1055514878.28221.python-list@python.org> <ef72fb2b.0306131205.3a7c5be9@posting.google.com> <200306132243.45270.zathras@thwackety.com>
Message-ID: <20030613192407.C2309@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Michael Sparks:
  [...]
> It strikes me that OP wants to be able to get at things in the middle of his
> type hierarchy:
>    isinstance(o,numeric))
>    isinstance(p,mutable)
>    isinstance(q,collection)

For numeric and collection, I think this would not be useful.
(More on 'mutable' below.)

There might be a little bit of shared functionality among such
types, but not much.  (Certainly int and float would not share an
implementation of __mul__, for example.)  The only other reason I
can think of to do isinstance checks is LBYL.  But then why not
just check for the existence of __add__ or __getitem__ or whatever
it is you need?  Inheritance should be for sharing implementation,
not interface.

It's different for mutable, of course, since there's no signature
which will distinguish mutable from immutable (or "amutable", if I
may coin a term, meaning "I provide no mutation facilities but do
not prevent subclasses from doing so").  I can think of cases in
which it would be helpful to know whether an object was mutable --
e.g. copy.deepcopy might be able to optimize if it could tell that
a user-defined object was immutable -- but I'm not sure a marker
interface (to borrow the Java term) is the way to go.

  [...]
-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"What I find most baffling about that song is that it was not a hit."
                                          -- Tony Dylan Davis (CKUA)




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jun 24 20:31:36 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 19:31:36 -0500
Subject: OFF TOPIC: What did Guido say?
In-Reply-To: <20030625002727.20904.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030625002727.20904.qmail@web11402.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <16120.60776.955362.605668@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Carlos> So, what did Guido say in:
    Carlos> http://www.python.org/~guido/guido.au

    Carlos> I hear this a thousand times, every day (my co-workers want to
    Carlos> kill me :) ), and still can't undertand Guido's words. I
    Carlos> especially pay attention to the funny noise in the end.

I seems he's saying something about making the sound of Woody Woodpecker
(then makes like Woody), but it sounds like Dutch to me.

Skip




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Jun 18 10:03:05 2003
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:03:05 +0100
Subject: How to recognize a generator function?
References: <mailman.1055928392.30750.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <r3s0fvg5u0k83iot4jsor60tmns0bkkqna@4ax.com>

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:21:35 -0700, Oscar Rambla <tecnic at codidoc.com>
wrote:

>
>Hi, 
>
>I'm not been able to find a solution to the following:
>
>How to recognize if a function is a generator function before calling it?
>(Alternatives to having to inspect code for a yield or wrapping it into a 
>class).
>
>Note: I refer to the function, not to the generator itself.
>
>Thank you in advance.
>
>-Oscar

Let us see...

>>> from __future__ import generators
>>> def testfunc():
... 	return None
... 
>>> testfunc
<function testfunc at 0x010F05C0>
>>> def testfunc():
... 	yield None
... 	
>>> testfunc
<function testfunc at 0x010F2750>
>>> 

Hmm, it seems that short of analyzing the source code you cannot...

And then again, why are you interested in such a difference? Seems
like the typical YAGNI.

Hoping-to-be-corrected-ly-yours,
G. Rodrigues



From nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net  Mon Jun  9 16:42:02 2003
From: nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net (Kevin Carlson)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 16:42:02 -0400
Subject: using urllib or httplib to post with ENCTYPE=mulitpart/form-data
In-Reply-To: <87of176mhz.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <mailman.1054758548.9033.python-list@python.org> <87he751jla.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1054782491.12301.python-list@python.org> <bbmlee$kk6$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <mailman.1054823291.20112.python-list@python.org> <87of1cs8jq.fsf@pobox.com> <bsNEa.15691$7l6.12257@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com> <87of176mhz.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <376Fa.49926$SN1.18232@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com>

John J. Lee wrote:
> Kevin Carlson <nskhcarlso at bellsouth.net> writes:
> [...]
> 

> No reason why not, but IMHO perverse.  :-)
> 

I agree, it is easier to use urllib, but in this case I have to post 
data in multipart/form-data which means MIME.  I can build the proper 
request and send it using httplib, but haven't been able to figure out 
how to do this with urllib.

If I create the MIME data as 'data', and them post the request using 
urllib.request(URL, data), it doesn't seem to post the form correctly. 
If I do the same with httplib it works fine.  Am I missing something?

Thanks for the help!





From ab528 at freenet.carleton.ca  Tue Jun 10 04:47:27 2003
From: ab528 at freenet.carleton.ca (Heinz Wiggeshoff)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:47:27 -0400
Subject: PLease help with my web site
References: <bV8Fa.9753$ly.3447270@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
Message-ID: <jXgFa.2848$JN6.446392@news20.bellglobal.com>

<a at b.c0m> wrote in message
news:bV8Fa.9753$ly.3447270 at news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> Please help me with my web site www.ratepcmods.com and go there

MORONIC SPAMMER





From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jun  3 19:03:56 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 01:03:56 +0200
Subject: smtplib and SSL
In-Reply-To: <rj7qdv8ovhbgadaoenfi18hhelrlkaqgas@4ax.com>
References: <rj7qdv8ovhbgadaoenfi18hhelrlkaqgas@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3EDD295C.40500@ghaering.de>

Michael Prager wrote:
> I have looked through Google groups and am not sure if this
> question has been answered before (by "Windows Python does not
> yet include SSL support.") [...]

Install my _socket.pyd binary for Python 2.2.x 
http://pypgsql.sourceforge.net/misc/python-ssl.html to get SSL support 
on Windows.

-- Gerhard




From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Fri Jun  6 18:56:52 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 23:56:52 +0100
Subject: Numeric don't compare arrays correctly
References: <3EDFBACD.2090802@wanadoo.es> <yfsbrxbufxn.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <yfs7k7zue8f.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <mailman.1054933814.2728.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yfs7k7ylsqz.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> writes:

> Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> ...
> 
> >``3 < 1 < 4`` (False in python, True in most other languages where it isn't a
> >syntax error)
> >

> OMG! That's horrific! It actually took me 3 or 4 seconds to even come up
> with a rationale for why it would be considered true when it so obviously is
> trying to say something false.

Well, it is only obvious because you (and I) are already used to a rather
hackish notation.

> Hopefully all those languages with these semantics issue a strong warning
> during compilation (1/5 ;) ) that this statement does nothing useful and
> should never be used in anything save obfuscated code contests :) .

Nope:

#include <stdio.h>

int main()
{
    printf("Is 1 < 1 < 1 true? %d\n", 1 < 1 < 1);
    return 0;
}
> gcc -Wall /tmp/ex.c
> a.out
Is the 1 < 1 < 1 true? 1


> Every once in a while I thank Guido for God's common sense (or vice versa).

I tend to agree, but in this case I'm not so sure. After all pythons
conformance with the expected "common sense" behavior breaks down nastily for
rich comparisons.

'as



From pajer at iname.com  Mon Jun  9 11:55:06 2003
From: pajer at iname.com (Gary Pajer)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:55:06 -0400
Subject: Newbie Question re Python 2.2.2 WIN
References: <Xns9394A2EFE7E51pythonidaeunderscore@203.220.9.230> <Xns9394A8AABA933abc@194.106.32.13> <Xns9395748B5A2D0pythonidaeunderscore@203.220.9.230>
Message-ID: <aKqdnfY5Ue9AMHmjXTWcpA@comcast.com>

"Ben Minton" <pythonidae_olivaceous at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> thanks sfb ... i thought that might be the case, but wasn't sure.
> at the python shell .... with the >>> what is the command to bring run an
> python script, say my_first_script.py?

I remember being exactly where you are.  The intro docs somehow miss this
topic.
Try this:  start the python interpreter  from the directory where
my_first_script.py lives.
Then at the >>> prompt,
import my_first_script
(without the ".py")  See if that does what you want.





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jun 19 15:56:05 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:56:05 -0600
Subject: WTF is Fibonnacci
In-Reply-To: <7inIa.55233$Io.5225846@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>; from ss3canon@earthlink.net on Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 06:29:23PM +0000
References: <7inIa.55233$Io.5225846@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20030619135605.A28346@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Mike:
> I'm readin through the Non-Programers Tutorial for Python and I'm on the
> examples of section Count to 10. And I can't figure out how the example got
> the output, can anyone help break it down for me?

I assume you're reading
    <http://honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/node6.html>
and that you're referring to the Fibonacci sequence example
further down the page.

Rather than trying to explain that example, let me first ask: are
you happy with that page's earlier examples of while loops?  If
not, what's the first one you're having trouble with?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I tried to be pleasant and accommodating, but my head
 began to hurt from his banality."   -- _Seven_ (1996)




From mcherm at mcherm.com  Fri Jun  6 09:24:33 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Fri,  6 Jun 2003 06:24:33 -0700
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
Message-ID: <1054905873.3ee09611900c6@mcherm.com>

> >Lambda expressions are syntactic sugar that allow the embedding of
> >what would otherwise be a def statement within some other statement
> 
> Not quite, of course, since not everything that can appear in a def
> statement can appear in a lambda.

No, Terry means precisely what he said. Lambdas can do a SUBSET of
what def can do. Specifically, they can't provide a name for the 
function, and they can't include statements.

> [lambda 'designed for side-effect free expressions']
> 
> >>I would accept this argument, except for the four examples I
> >>mentioned above.  They are all things which have side effects, and
> >>which are not excluded from appearing in lambda expressions.
> >
> >So what?  Many syntactic constructs can be used for more than
> >intended or thought about by the designer.
> 
> The point is that the supposed justification for lambda's restrictions
> - that it is supposed not to have side effects - bears no relation to
> how it really behaves.  The extra complexity introduced by having an
> arbitrary and semantically meaningless (IMHO) set of rules about what
> can be used in lambda and what can't doesn't seem worthwhile.

Again, the argument is from the other direction. *IF* you only wanted
lambda for side-effect-free functions, then you would have little
need (with one exception mentioned below) for statements. The fact
that some expressions ALSO have side effects is irrelevent. And
that's not the REAL motivation for allowing only expressions... the
REAL motivation is the fact that Python makes a clear distinction
between statements and expressions. Many statements have places where
arbitrary expressions can occur, and Python allows expressions to
contain other (arbitrarily complex) expressions, but does NOT have
a concept of expressions containing statements. So lambdas (which
are expressions) can't contain statements. There isn't even a clean
way in which it could be done... unlike (for instance) C and Java
where statements are delimited by ";", statements in Python are
delimited by whitespace and bracket-balancing.


> Why then not allow the same things inside lambda as inside def?  At
> least as far as keeping the function body on a single line.

(1) Because expressions don't contain statements, and there's no
    obvious (and readable) syntactic way to change that.
(2) Because it isn't needed (if you use lambda for simple 
    side-effect-free functions).
(3) Because Guido considers "def" *BETTER* than lambda (because it
    forces the user to come up with a name, and it's multi-line
    layout is more readable). So he wants to encourage "def" whenever
    the task being done is even remotely complicated.

> >Extending lambda to embed even simple statements within expressions
> >is problematical:
> 
>     lambda x: assert(x > 0)
>     lambda x: print 'value:', x
>     lambda x: y += x    # (without any change to scoping rules)
> 

Actually, ONE of those is convincing to me. Even a side-effect-free
expression ought to be able to raise exceptions, and "raise" (and
also its special-case sibling "assert") is a statement. But if the
function is simple enough, then this won't be an issue. If it is
really needed, it's trivial to define a function "assert_()" which
does what is needed. And if that's too complex, you can fall back
on "def".

> all things you might reasonably want to use as lambda expressions (for
> example an assertion that 'every number in this list is positive').
> 
> Then again, I am not a Python developer.  Perhaps there is some
> syntactic ambiguity that would stop the above examples being
> parsable.  But it seems unlikely, one of the big advantages of Python
> is is clean grammar (currently marred only by the strange rules about
> lambda-expressions, IMHO).

Actually, I think you're missing a fundamental point about the grammer.
Unlike many other languages, Python makes a very fundamental
distinction between STATEMENTS and EXPRESSIONS. There are a small
number of clearly specified statements defined in the Python grammer,
each is delimited by whitespace (and bracket-balancing), and there
are no rules for making NEW kinds of statements. Expressions are
defined recursively (nearly all kinds of expressions can contain
other arbitrary expressions) and thus very complicated structures
can be built up within an expression. But the distinction is
maintained throughout the language... it is not a "strange rule".

Hope this helps you make sense of it...

-- Michael Chermside 





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun 16 10:19:47 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:19:47 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <3EEDDA04.8000005@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <3EEDD203.54F5672B@engcorp.com>

Gary Duncan wrote:
> 
> Alex Martelli wrote:
> 
> >>>Calling functions with invalid arguments is one of the commonest
> >>>programming errors
> >>
> >>Debatable.  Not true in my experience.

(To clarify, in the face of trimmed attributions: I, not Alex, wrote 
the last sentence above.)

> I suspect this assertion relates to juxtaposing args, not so
> much the values thereof. Obviously passing bad values to a function
> is a crime we have all committed - at least it's one I admit to ;)

If we consider that bugs come from either bad data or bad logic, and
that bad logic will very likely or inevitably lead to bad data, and
that all data eventually is used as an "argument" in some fashion,
I'll agree that calling functions with invalid arguments is quite
common. :-)

To take up Alex' point: passing in the wrong type is probably much
less common than, say, using the wrong value, or mixing up the order
of arguments (and many functions take a bunch of arguments of the
same type, so type-checking doesn't help there!).

-Peter



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Jun 20 08:11:57 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 20 Jun 2003 13:11:57 +0100
Subject: include files?
References: <3ef1c90f$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <bcuftd$rvu$0@216.39.172.122> <3ef2d8fc$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <bcupq6$n4nl9$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de> <3ef2f22f$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <87k7bh54oi.fsf@pobox.com>

"rgndrp" <erased*remove_this*@xs4all.nl> writes:
> Thomas G?ttler wrote:
[...]
> > Does this help you?
> > 
> > main.py:
> > include variables
> > if variables.myvar==5:
> >    print "OK"
> > 
> > variables.py:
> > myvar=5
[...]
> it would if i'd get it to work :)
> now it returns this cgi error:
[...]
>     include applic.py
[...]

1. Thomas meant to say 'import', not include.

2. You don't want the '.py' in the import statement.

Two files, main.py and variables.py:

# -------------START main.py:----------------
import variables
if variables.myvar==5:
    print "OK"
# -------------END main.py:----------------


# -------------START variables.py:----------------
myvar=5
# -------------END variables.py----------------

No, you don't need the comments, they're just there to show you where
the files begin and end.  :-)


John



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Thu Jun 12 12:02:15 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 17:02:15 +0100
Subject: vector subscripts in Python?
References: <3064b51d.0306111512.7701dbbc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <yfs4r2vl1x4.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

beliavsky at aol.com writes:

> Does Python have the equivalent of "vector subscripts" of Fortran 95?
> The code below illustrates what I am looking for -- with better syntax. 
> 
> def subscript(xx,ii):
>     # return the elements in xx subscripted by ii
>     y = []
>     for i in ii: y.append(xx[i])
>     return y
>     
> ii = [0,2]
> xx = [1,4,9]
> print subscript(xx,ii) # returns [1, 9]; in F95, "print*,xx(ii)" is
> analogous

As already pointed out, a list comprehension will do what you want, but since
I find this behavior useful quite often I think wrapping it up in a function
is worthwhile (note that it allows works for dicts and other iterables).

def at(iterable, indices):
    return [iterable[i] for i in indices]

In [5]: at(xx, ii)
Out[5]: [1, 9]

In [6]: at({'a':1, 'b':2}, ['a','b'])
Out[6]: [1, 2]


'as



From delphiro at zonnet.nl  Fri Jun 20 07:12:37 2003
From: delphiro at zonnet.nl (delphiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:12:37 +0200
Subject: freeing objects
In-Reply-To: <3EF2D852.2050101@irst.itc.it>
References: <3EF2D852.2050101@irst.itc.it>
Message-ID: <20030620131237.28d838f0.delphiro@zonnet.nl>

Hi everyone,

I am writing an application where I use Chaco for the excellent graphical output and now I have a question about creating / freeing objects.

I use this code to create and assign a chaco-object (a 'vertical') to my dialog:

self.plotitem = PlotCanvas( pv1, PlotTitle( 'Soilstress in vertical ..' ), plot_type = 'rangebar', axis_index = x_ax, axis = y_ax )

now the user has the possibility to change the view to another 'vertical' so self.plotitem should be assigned to another PlotCanvas and the old one should disappear.

What is the correct way to do this?

should I 'free' self.plotitem before assigning a new PlotCanvas to self.plotitem and if so, how do you 'free' objects in Python?

Thanks in advance,
Rob 




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Fri Jun  6 11:00:21 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 6 Jun 2003 08:00:21 -0700
Subject: Using metaclasses to make super more beatiful
References: <mailman.1054831871.3625.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306060700.428f9c97@posting.google.com>

Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.1054831871.3625.python-list at python.org>...
<snip message on autosuper>

You may want to google for the thread "help on autosuper" date February 3, 
2003. At the time I found that the autosuper metaclass was conflicting
with pydoc:

# try this under Python 2.2

class autosuper(type): #Guido's metaclass
    def __init__(cls, name, bases, dic):
        super(autosuper, cls).__init__(name, bases, dic)
        setattr(cls,"_%s__super" % name, super(cls))

class C(object): #a simple class
    __metaclass__=autosuper
 
help(C) # error because super objects have not __name__

For this reason I abandoned the autosuper approach. However, I have 
checked today with Python 2.3 and now it works! The reason is that now 
private attributes are no more retrieved by pydoc, therefore the 
inconsistency is hidden under the hood. However, it is still there and
if you do

# try this under Python 2.2-2.3
class C(object): pass
C.sup=super(C)
help(C)

you will get

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "pro.py", line 15, in ?
    help(C)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site.py", line 293, in __call__
    return pydoc.help(*args, **kwds)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/pydoc.py", line 1539, in __call__
    self.help(request)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/pydoc.py", line 1575, in help
    else: doc(request, 'Help on %s:')
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/pydoc.py", line 1368, in doc
    pager(title % desc + '\n\n' + text.document(object, name))
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/pydoc.py", line 279, in document
    if inspect.isclass(object): return self.docclass(*args)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/pydoc.py", line 1122, in docclass
    lambda t: t[1] == 'method')
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/pydoc.py", line 1057, in spill
    name, mod, object))
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/pydoc.py", line 280, in document
    if inspect.isroutine(object): return self.docroutine(*args)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/pydoc.py", line 1145, in docroutine
    realname = object.__name__
AttributeError: 'super' object has no attribute '__name__'

Another reason to use private attributes ;) There is a simple fix, anyway:

class Super(super):
    def __init__(self,C,S=None):
        super(Super,self).__init__(C,S)
        self.__name__="Super(%s)" % C.__name__

To you and to other explorers of the wonders of super, I say "DON'T
USE 2.2!". There were many subtle bugs now mostly solved in 2.3 (except
the one with pydoc, AFAIK).

Cheers,

                            Michele



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jun 17 09:10:13 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:10:13 +0200
Subject: Debug version of Python 2.2 on win32 platform ?
In-Reply-To: <3EEF12FD.9020905@swissinfo.org>
References: <3EEF12FD.9020905@swissinfo.org>
Message-ID: <3EEF1335.8080206@ghaering.de>

Sebastien Hugues wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Does anyone know where i could find a binary version of Python 2.2 with
> all debug symbols enabled for win32 ? 

There used to be a ZIP file with the debug binaries available from 
ActiveState. Not that there's much point in this download, though.

> I tried to build it from
> scratch, but i cannot set up the wise installation due to a wrong 
> version of wise.

You don't need to build the WISE installer to copy a few .exe, .dll and 
.pyd files into the right places, do you?

-- Gerhard




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Jun 16 16:21:15 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:21:15 -0400
Subject: Diamond inheritance with str
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306161258390.32690-100000@calais.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <7ai7+kKkXIwd092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Patrick Earl <patrick at cs.ualberta.ca> wrote previously:
|>>> class A(str): pass
|...
|>>> class B(str): pass
|...
|>>> class C(A,B): pass
|...
|Traceback (most recent call last):
|  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
|TypeError: multiple bases have instance lay-out conflict

Likewise:

  >>> class A(tuple): pass
  ...
  >>> class B(tuple): pass
  ...
  >>> class C(A,B): pass
  ...
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  TypeError: multiple bases have instance lay-out conflict

I imagine that you could do some clever checks in a metaclass (as
usual), but it feels to me also like that shouldn't be necessary.

--
---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jun 29 23:40:06 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 05:40:06 +0200
Subject: using extended built-in types
References: <6f03c4a5.0306291248.325e5ecc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3u1a8utbd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim) writes:

> How do I make all future integers use myint instead of int without
> explicitely say a = myint(value)?

That is not possible.

Martin



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Jun 11 20:24:11 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:24:11 +1000
Subject: Why it doesn't go ????
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE6EA054@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Panther [mailto:saspurss at libero.it]
> 
> Because I have an error if I import ping.py.

In that case you're going to have very little luck calling it as a string.

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

In particular:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#beprecise

Tim Delaney




From ccurvey at earthlink.net  Sat Jun 14 18:14:39 2003
From: ccurvey at earthlink.net (Chris Curvey)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:14:39 GMT
Subject: sgmllib missing an end tag?
Message-ID: <j7NGa.48617$Io.4524280@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

I hope this doesn't post twice....

Can anyone see why sgmllib would miss the </a> tag just after "Log in" 
in the following HTML fragment?  I've been looking at this so long that 
the characters are starting to swim around....

                     <a 
href="http://chriscurvey.com:8080/curveyConsulting/login_form">
                 <img 
src="http://chriscurvey.com:8080/curveyConsulting/linkOpaque.gif" alt="" 
title="" height="11" width="6" border="0" />

                 Log in
             </a> <!-- this is the tag that's being missed -->


             <a 
href="http://chriscurvey.com:8080/curveyConsulting/portal_form/join_form">
                 <img 
src="http://chriscurvey.com:8080/curveyConsulting/linkOpaque.gif" alt="" 
title="" height="11" width="6" border="0" />

                 Join
             </a>




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jun 19 10:31:52 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 10:31:52 -0400
Subject: Feature Structures in Python (Part I)
References: <mailman.1056000753.11575.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bcshgo$2ij$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1056000753.11575.python-list at python.org>,
James Tauber <jtauber at jtauber.com> wrote:
>
>This is the first part of a tutorial/cookbook I'm writing up on
>implementing feature structures in Python.
>
>I'd love any feedback (particularly on the Pythonicity of my approach).

You should also cover using classes and class instances.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk  Fri Jun 27 05:46:49 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.cix.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:46:49 +0100
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com> <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com> <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com> <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com> <bdb22c$psllg$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EF933AA.C16ADFE5@alcyone.com> <bdcl1d$v43$0@216.39.172.122> <fef0a228.0306261125.62b83713@posting.google.com> <slrnbfn2eb.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <jg4ofv4n3aq4kc7toh1v22ontijkdu07hp@4ax.com>

On 27 Jun 2003 09:33:23 +0950, Ben Finney
<bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> wrote:

>So, it was teletypes that needlessly preserved the CR and LF as separate
>control operations, due to the typewriter-based thinking of their
>designers.  If they'd been combined into the one operation, we would
>have all the same functionality but none of the confusion over line
>ending controls.

It wasn't needless.  A CR with no LF  was often used for overstriking,
as a way of extending the rather limited character set.  'O'
overstruck with '-' would make a passable \Theta, for instance..



From Ludger.Humbert at cs.uni-dortmund.de  Tue Jun 17 13:42:02 2003
From: Ludger.Humbert at cs.uni-dortmund.de (Ludger.Humbert)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:42:02 +0200
Subject: One Problem -- how to implement in three programming paradigms
  in Python
In-Reply-To: <bcm4sh$5al$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <3EED97E5.1080100@cs.uni-dortmund.de> <mailman.1055793127.28882.python-list@python.org> <3EEE2898.9080000@cs.uni-dortmund.de> <bclqck$c2d$0@216.39.172.122> <bcm4sh$5al$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3EEF52EA.1040901@cs.uni-dortmund.de>

Hi Bengt Richter,
your post makes my day.

Now the problem is solved in

a) an imperativ programming style ( Bengt Richter )

b) an objectoriented programming style ( Bengt Richter )

c) a (knowledge based) predicative programming style
   ( with holmes by Mark Lutz an some rules made by lh )

If there would be someone out there, who is able to realize a solution
in the functional programming style, I would be happy again.

The problem:
 http://in.hagen.de/~humbert/vortraege/F.Grundkonzepte_html/22.html


TNX .. so much

I would like to point out:

"You know you're a Pythonista when ..
you ask another Pythonista a rather non trivial question, and get an
answer, before you wake up next time ..."

	Ludger
-- 
______________________________________________________________________
      _____
   UniDo  /  Ludger   University of Dortmund, LS Informatik XII
  ___/   /  Humbert   didactics of informatics
  \  \  /             D-44221 Dortmund
   \__\/              Phone: +49 231 755 6141, Fax: +49 231 755 6116
                      Email: ludger.humbert at uni-dortmund.de
______________________________________________________________________




From uwe at oss4u.com  Tue Jun 10 00:57:56 2003
From: uwe at oss4u.com (Uwe C. Schroeder)
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 21:57:56 -0700
Subject: pyc suffix importer
Message-ID: <veapal4d22pe94@corp.supernews.com>

Hi,

has anyone written a pure pyc suffix importer for imputil ?
The current py suffix importer only handles things when both, the .py and
the .pyc are present (or at least the .py)
However I only have a .pyc which I need to import.

I know there was a patch checked in at sourceforge in July 2002, however one
can't see the patches.

Anyone ?

thanks

        UC

--
Open Source Solutions 4U, LLC   2570 Fleetwood Drive
Phone:  +1 650 872 2425         San Bruno, CA 94066
Cell:   +1 650 302 2405         United States
Fax:    +1 650 872 2417



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Jun  9 06:43:10 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 10:43:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP 318: Function Modifier Syntax
References: <E19PDu0-00072g-00@sc8-pr-cvs1.sourceforge.net> <mailman.1055151317.13691.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns939576AA45E80duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Gerrit Holl <gerrit at nl.linux.org> wrote in 
news:mailman.1055151317.13691.python-list at python.org:


> I would say:
> 
> funcdef: "def" funcname "(" [parameter_list] ")" [call_list] ":"
> call-list: callable ("," callable)* [","]

Did you miss out "as" before the [call_list]? Also, I still think that you 
need to allow optional parentheses around the call-list.

> But now the properties: those are more difficult.
> A legal syntax would be:
> 
> def __get(self) as property: ...
> 
> However, this doesn't work for set and del. Using function attributes to
> accomplish properties, as has been proposed in the past, is a different
> story and would require a different PEP.
> 

What would people think of a half-way house where the new syntax is used 
only on the last part of the definition, and you define the other methods 
just as you do just now?

Since the property type isn't callable today, I think this just about fits 
without breaking anything:

Define a readonly property, implicitly calls property(X) which creates a 
readonly property:

   def X(self) as property:
       return self.__x_value

Define a readwrite property, the call to property returns a property object 
which is itself callable. Calling a property object with an fset but no 
fget would take the parameter as a new fget:

   def set_X(self, value):
       ...
   def X(self) as property(fset=set_X):
       return self.__x_value

or
   def get_X(self):
       ...
   def X(self) as property(fget=get_X):
       ...

Defining a writeonly property:

   def X(self, value) as property(fget=None):
       ...

Another thought. When defining a function I can do:

   f = 3
   def f(x=f): pass

The parameter name x doesn't conflict with access to the variable x.

The same thing should happen in:

   funcdef: "def" funcname "(" [parameter_list] ")" "as" [call_list] ":"

any reference to a variable in callable with the same name as funcname 
should get the previous value of funcname (if there was one).
So it would be possible to write:

    def X(self) as property:
        return self.__x_value

    def X(self, value) as X:
        print "setting X"

which sucks, although if property could take a property as a parameter you 
might be able to write this instead:

    def X(self) as property:
        return self.__x_value

    def X(self, value) as property(fget=X):
        print "setting X"

Or you could simply define some new wrappers property_get, property_set, 
property_del and write:

    def X(self) as property_get: ...
    def X(self, value) as property_set(X): ...
    def X(self) as property_del(X): ...

with appropriate but confusing definitions.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jun 26 20:55:46 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Jun 2003 20:55:46 -0400
Subject: Exposing object model in Python?
References: <bdffi1$skho2$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bdg4mi$j9f$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <bdffi1$skho2$1 at ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>, MK <MK at foo.com> wrote:
>
>What would be the best way to expose the object model of a Python
>application?

Depends what you want to do.  Are you trying to expose only methods of
objects that you provide, or give full access to Python?  Or something
else?

>If I package my app with py2exe, can I ship Python intepreter and
>access py2exe-cised app through Python scripts then?

Basic answer is yes, depending on exactly what libraries you ship.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From gupt_vive at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 19 08:56:38 2003
From: gupt_vive at hotmail.com (vivek kumar)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:26:38 +0530
Subject: DBI and DBDs 4 Python
Message-ID: <Law15-F162HUnuNDD6Z0002c52d@hotmail.com>

>From: "J?Gius?" <exml at libero.it>
>To: python-list at python.org
>Subject: DBI and DBDs 4 Python
>Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:40:46 GMT
>
>Hi,
>
>Is there any database access module independent of the actual database 
>being
>used? That is, a module that define methods and conventions in order to
>provide a consistent database interface regardless of the picked out RDBMS 
>.

I haven't tried this coz it is a commercial package ;-) but it seems that u 
are looking for mxODBC

>Gius

regards
Vivek Kumar

_________________________________________________________________
Feeling lost and loneyl? Need a little astro guidance? 
http://www.msn.co.in/Astrology/





From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jun 18 09:31:18 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 14:31:18 +0100
Subject: [long] Comments on urllib2 extensions?
Message-ID: <87y8zzms0p.fsf@pobox.com>

I'm looking for comments on an extension to urllib2 (see below for
code, but read the notes first!).

Apologies for posting here instead of SF patch manger (see below for
why).

Problem with urllib2 as it stands: many things would be nice to
implement as a Handler rather than by overriding methods (and
inevitably duplicating code and increasing fragility), but it's not
always possible to do so.  For example (all from HTTP), automatically
adding Referer headers, handling 200 responses that should have been
non-2xx errors if the server were sane, handling cookies, handling
HTTP-EQUIV headers as if they were normal HTTP headers, automatically
making responses seekable, and following Refresh headers.  I've done
all these things, but I had to duplicate code to do it, because I
don't see how to do it with Handlers.

Two things I'd like to know: 1. will my solution break people's code
2. is there a better way?

For 1., I *think* it shouldn't break code.

For 2., the obvious problem with my solution (below) is that Handlers
are pretty similar to my Processors already.  The thing is, I can't
see how to reimplement these things in terms of Handlers.  First, I
need to *see* all requests (responses) -- I can do that using Handlers
by giving them low (high) .handler_order in Python 2.3 and returning
None from http_open (http_error_xxx).  However, 200 responses never
get seen by http_error_xxx, so that doesn't work (and changing that
would break old code).  Second, I sometimes need to actually modify
the requests and responses.  Sometimes I'd much rather do that by
making a new request or response than modifying the old one in-place
-- and in general, even if I *am* just modifying in-place, I'd still
prefer to explictly return the object than rely on side-effects.  I
suppose just adding a couple of hooks to AbstractHTTPHandler might get
the job done, but I think the increased simplicity of
AbstractHTTPHandler.do_open and the various Processors makes my
approach worthwhile (assuming it actually works & is
backwards-compat., of course...).

The code is below, but note:

I'm not posting this as a patch yet, partly because the core Python
people are likely particularly busy ATM (2.3 etc.), partly because it
*isn't* a patch yet (it's code I just wrote and am wondering whether
or not to put in my ClientCookie package, which extends urllib2).
However, a patch would look almost identical.  It's not even working
code (not much work to get it working... but I think I want to write
some unit tests for urllib2 first).  Note also that some
implementation code isn't reproduced here (notably the Cookies class,
parse_head and seek_wrapper -- all from ClientCookie, and all of which
I hope eventually to get into the standard libray, when they're simple
& stable enough).

You use it like this:

# just pass Processors to build_opener as if they were Handlers
opener = build_opener(FooHandler, BarProcessor, BazHandler)
response = opener.open("http://www.example.com/")


Comments??

<waits for deafening silence>


John

#------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# Note that this is useful also for the case where a urllib2 user wants to
# handle 200 responses that should have been errors (which unfortunately
# does happen -- the content will be something informative like
# "<html>An error occurred.</html>", but the code is still 200).
# XXX *try* this to check following is true!: It's particularly useful
#  when you want to retry fetching pages on certain errors.

# Maybe something similar could be done just by sticking in a hook in
# AbstractHTTPHandler.do_open right at the start (for request munging)
# and just before redirection (for response munging)?  I think this is
# nicer, though.

class BaseProcessor:
    processor_order = 500

    def add_parent(self, parent):
        self.parent = parent
    def close(self):
        self.parent = None
    def __lt__(self, other):
        return self.processor_order < other.processor_order

class HTTPEquivProcessor(BaseProcessor):
    """Append META HTTP-EQUIV headers to regular HTTP headers."""
    def http_response(self, request, response):
        if not hasattr(response, "seek"):
            response = seek_wrapper(response)
        # grab HTTP-EQUIV headers and add them to the true HTTP headers
        headers = response.info()
        for hdr, val in parse_head(response):
            headers[hdr] = val
        response.seek(0)
        return response

class SeekableProcessor(BaseProcessor):
    """Make responses seekable."""
    # XXX perhaps this should come after ErrorProcessor
    # (.processor_order > 1000)
    def http_response(self, request, response):
        if not hasattr(response, "seek"):
            return seek_wrapper(response)
        return response

# XXX really, unverifiable should be an attribute / method on Request -- user
# may want to make unverifiable requests directly
class HTTPCookieProcessor(BaseProcessor):
    """Handle HTTP cookies."""
    def __init__(self, cookies=None):
        if cookies is None:
            cookies = Cookies()
        self.cookies = cookies

    def http_request(self, request):
        if hasattr(request, "error_302_dict") and request.error_302_dict:
            redirect = True
        else:
            redirect = False
            # Stuff request-host of this origin transaction into Request
            # object, because we need to know it to know whether cookies
            # should be in operation during derived requests (redirects,
            # specifically).
            request.origin_req_host = request_host(req)
        self.cookies.add_cookie_header(req, unverifiable=redirect)
        return request

    def http_response(self, request, response):
        if hasattr(request, "error_302_dict") and request.error_302_dict:
            redirect = True
        else:
            redirect = False
        self.cookies.extract_cookies(response, req, unverifiable=redirect)
        return request

class HTTPRefererProcessor(BaseProcessor):
    """Add Referer header to requests.

    This only makes sense if you use each RefererProcessor for a single
    chain of requests only.

    """
    def __init__(self, cookies=None):
        self.referer = None

    def http_request(self, request):
        if ((self.referer is not None) and
            not request.headers.has_key("Referer")):
            request.addheader("Referer", self.referer)
        return request

    def http_response(self, request, response):
        self.referer = response.geturl()
        return response

class HTTPStandardHeadersProcessor(BaseProcessor):
    def http_request(self, request):
        new_req = copy.copy(request)  # For backwards-compat.

        if req.has_data():  # POST
            data = new_req.get_data()
            if not new_req.headers.has_key('Content-type'):
                new_req.add_header('Content-type',
                                   'application/x-www-form-urlencoded')
            if not req.headers.has_key('Content-length'):
                new_req.add_header('Content-length', '%d' % len(data))

        scheme, sel = urllib.splittype(req.get_selector())
        sel_host, sel_path = urllib.splithost(sel)
        h.putheader('Host', sel_host or host)
        for name, value in self.parent.addheaders:
            name = name.capitalize()
            if not req.headers.has_key(name):
                h.putheader(name, value)
        for args in self.parent.addheaders:
            apply(h.putheader, args)

        return new_req


# XXX Problems:
# Existence of ErrorProcessor is necessary for correct hehaviour of
#  the other processors (they need to happen before redirection).
# But:
#  ErrorProcessor and RefreshProcessor must come after the rest.
#  Will it break old code if applied to urllib2?  People who override
#   AbstractHTTPHandler.do_open will do redirection there, which *will*
#   break Processors -- but since all the Processors I'm suggesting
#   (other than ErrorProcessor itself) just add new features and
#   would be off by default, this isn't a problem.  ErrorProcessor is
#   old code in a new form, and I think adds no problems not introduced
#   by overriding do_open in the first place.
#  Response object doesn't include response code or message (because
#   code is always 200).  This isn't a showstopper: could always add
#   code and msg attributes.  End user still only gets 200 responses,
#   because ErrorProcessor ensures that (everything else gets raised
#   as an exception).

class HTTPRefreshProcessor(BaseProcessor):
    """Perform HTTP Refresh redirections.

    Note that if a non-200 HTTP code has occurred (for example, a 30x
    redirect), this processor will do nothing.

    """
    processor_order = 1000

    def http_response(self, request, response):
        code, msg, hdrs = response.code, response.msg, response.info()

        if code == 200 and hdrs.has_key("refresh"):
            refresh = hdrs["refresh"]
            i = string.find(refresh, ";")
            if i != -1:
                time, newurl_spec = refresh[:i], refresh[i+1:]
                i = string.find(newurl_spec, "=")
                if i != -1:
                    if int(time) == 0:
                        newurl = newurl_spec[i+1:]
                        # fake a 302 response
                        hdrs["location"] = newurl
                        response = self.parent.error(
                            'http', request, response, 302, msg, hdrs)

        return response

class HTTPErrorProcessor(BaseProcessor):
    """Process non-200 HTTP error responses.

    This just passes the job on to the Handler.<scheme>_error_<code>
    methods, via the OpenerDirector.error method.

    """
    processor_order = 1000

    def http_response(self, request, response):
        code, msg, hdrs = response.code, response.msg, response.info()

        if code != 200:
            # XXX fp has been replaced by response here -- can that cause
            #   any trouble?  Same goes for RefreshProcessor.
            # XXX redundancy -- response already contains code, msg, hdrs.
            #   Oh well, too bad.
            response = self.parent.error(
                'http', request, response, code, msg, hdrs)

        return None  # no more response processing

class OpenerDirector(urllib2.OpenerDirector):
    # XXX might be useful to have remove_processor, too (say you want to
    #   set a new RefererProcessor, but keep the old CookieProcessor --
    #   could always just create everything anew, though (using old
    #   Cookies object to create CookieProcessor)
    def __init__(self):
        urllib2.OpenerDirector.__init__(self)
        self.processors = []
        self.process_response = {}
        self.process_request = {}

    def add_processor(self, processor):
        added = False
        for meth in dir(processor):
            if meth[-9:] == "_response":
                protocol = meth[:-9]
                if self.process_response.has_key(protocol):
                    self.process_response[protocol].append(processor)
                    self.process_response[protocol].sort()
                else:
                    self.process_response[protocol] = [processor]
                added = True
                continue
            elif meth[-9:] == "_request":
                protocol = meth[:-8]
                if self.process_request.has_key(protocol):
                    self.process_request[protocol].append(processor)
                    self.process_request[protocol].sort()
                else:
                    self.process_request[protocol] = [processor]
                added = True
                continue
        if added:
            self.processors.append(processor)
            # XXX base class sorts .handlers, but I have no idea why
            #self.processors.sort()
            processor.add_parent(self)

    def _request(self, url_or_req, data):
        if isinstance(url_or_req, basestring):
            req = Request(url_or_req, data)
        else:
            # already a urllib2.Request instance
            req = url_or_req
            if data is not None:
                req.add_data(data)
        return req

    def open(self, fullurl, data=None):
        req = self._request(fullurl)
        scheme = req.get_type()

        for meth_name in self.process_request[scheme]:
            meth = getattr(processor, meth_name)
            req = meth(req)
            scheme = req.get_type()  # XXX good / bad / unnecessary?

        response = urllib2.UrlOpener.open(req, data)

        for meth_name in self.process_response[scheme]:
            meth = getattr(processor, meth_name)
            response = meth(req, response)

        return response

    def close(self):
        urllib2.OpenerDirector.close(self)
        for processor in self.processors:
            processor.close()
        self.processors = []


# Note the absence of redirect and header-adding code here
# (AbstractHTTPHandler), and the lack of other clutter that would be
# here without Processors.
class AbstractHTTPHandler(urllib2.BaseHandler):
    def do_open(self, http_class, req):
        host = req.get_host()
        if not host:
            raise URLError('no host given')

        h = http_class(host) # will parse host:port

        if req.has_data():
            h.putrequest('POST', req.get_selector())
        else:
            h.putrequest('GET', req.get_selector())

        for k, v in req.headers.items():
            h.putheader(k, v)
        # httplib will attempt to connect() here.  be prepared
        # to convert a socket error to a URLError.
        try:
            h.endheaders()
        except socket.error, err:
            raise URLError(err)
        if req.has_data():
            h.send(data)

        code, msg, hdrs = h.getreply()
        fp = h.getfile()

        response = addinfourl(fp, hdrs, req.get_full_url())

        return response


# (this wouldn't be in a patch, I'm just deriving from the simplified
# AbstractHTTPHandler)
class HTTPHandler(AbstractHTTPHandler):
    def http_open(self, req):
        return self.do_open(httplib.HTTP, req)
if hasattr(httplib, 'HTTPS'):
    class HTTPSHandler(AbstractHTTPHandler):
        def https_open(self, req):
            return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPS, req)


def build_opener(*handlers):
    """Create an opener object from a list of handlers and processors.

    The opener will use several default handlers and processors, including
    support for HTTP and FTP.

    If any of the handlers passed as arguments are subclasses of the
    default handlers, the default handlers will not be used.
    """
    opener = urllib2.OpenerDirector()
    default_classes = [
        # handlers
        urllib2.ProxyHandler,
        urllib2.UnknownHandler,
        HTTPHandler,  # from this module (derived from new AbstractHTTPHandler)
        urllib2.HTTPDefaultErrorHandler,
        urllib2.HTTPRedirectHandler,
        urllib2.FTPHandler,
        urllib2.FileHandler,
        # processors
        # don't use most processors by default, for backwards compatibility
        #HTTPEquivProcessor,
        #SeekableProcessor,
        #HTTPCookieProcessor,
        #HTTPRefererProcessor,
        HTTPStandardHeadersProcessor,
        #HTTPRefreshProcessor,
        HTTPErrorProcessor
        ]
    if hasattr(httplib, 'HTTPS'):
        default_classes.append(HTTPSHandler)
    skip = []
    for klass in default_classes:
        for check in handlers:
            if type(check) == types.ClassType:
                if issubclass(check, klass):
                    skip.append(klass)
            elif type(check) == types.InstanceType:
                if isinstance(check, klass):
                    skip.append(klass)
    for klass in skip:
        default_classes.remove(klass)

    to_add = []
    for klass in default_classes:
        to_add.append(klass())
    for h in handlers:
        if type(h) == types.ClassType:
            h = h()
        to_add.append(h)

    for instance in to_add:
        # yuck
        if hasattr(instance, "processor_order"):
            opener.add_processor(instance)
        else:
            opener.add_handler(instance)

    return opener
#------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From stevesusenet at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 19 11:35:13 2003
From: stevesusenet at yahoo.com (Steve)
Date: 19 Jun 2003 08:35:13 -0700
Subject: Is python good for making database work short?
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095@posting.google.com> <mailman.1055987132.22607.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f8cb8c9.0306190735.abb5d5f@posting.google.com>

Paul McNett <p at ulmcnett.com> wrote 

> I am a FoxPro developer switching to Python. Python offers a good DB 
> specification and a bunch of modules to access any kind of backend data. 
> Python also offers good basic types to store cursor-like views of the dat
> a 
> (a list of dictionaries would provide a recordset-like object, where you 
> can reference the fields by name).

Thanks for the cool opinion.  Its nice to have one from a foxpro
afficinado saying that python is the next best thing.

I have been very impressed with foxpro.  I am surprised that the free
software community ( or even another proprietary group ) has not
produced a work-a-like of foxpro.

Steve



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Jun 18 23:57:13 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:57:13 -0400
Subject: Is python good for making database work short?
References: <6f8cb8c9.0306181727.9c86095@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1055987132.22607.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ZST8+kKkXweZ092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Paul McNett <p at ulmcnett.com> wrote previously:
|FoxPro shines at manipulating data.  There is no finer tool for that
|purpose.

Well... there *is* a finer tool:  Clipper :-).  But those are pretty
close, both being xBase dialects.  However, Clipper besides having a
moderately better syntax, also has a multi-platform Free Software
implementation called Harbour.

That said, I still like Python better.  It may not be *quite* as agile
at manipulating relational tables, but for most everything else it's a
bit better.

Yours, Lulu...

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.




From wweexxsseessssaa at telusplanet.net  Wed Jun 18 19:49:12 2003
From: wweexxsseessssaa at telusplanet.net (John Hall)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:49:12 GMT
Subject: Windows Program?
References: <vf1roa984ou832@corp.supernews.com> <slrnbf1t6c.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <ahu1fvc2or0q9mg9uj6gknego88840t5c3@4ax.com>

On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:25:01 GMT, Ben Finney
<bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> wrote:

>Much nicer, uses native widgets on *nix, Windws and (soon) MacOS, but
>needs extra packages:
>
>    <http://www.wxpython.org/>


and PythonCard (uses wxWindows, wxPython)

http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/


-- 
John W Hall <wweexxsseessssaa at telusplanet.net>
Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
"Helping People Prosper in the Information Age"



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Fri Jun 27 16:25:03 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:25:03 -0600
Subject: Inputbox with win32api?
In-Reply-To: <899f842.0306271144.592f9c29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030627142334.027f5ab8@66.28.54.253>

At 12:44 PM 6/27/2003 -0700, Anthony_Barker wrote:

>Is there a simple way of throwing up a simple Inputbox with win32 api
>in python?
>
>I could use tk
>data=tkSimpleDialog.askstring( title="Input",prompt="Email Address?")
>
>but that adds 700K to the package when I distribute it to non python
>users as it forces me to include tk. (Using MacMillian installer).

There is win32all with its version of raw_input(). I don't know how much 
overhead that adds to a package.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.492 / Virus Database: 291 - Release Date: 6/24/2003

From wooooee at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 11 21:00:51 2003
From: wooooee at yahoo.com (Curly Joe)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: simple text filter
Message-ID: <20030612010051.83718.qmail@web41808.mail.yahoo.com>

FYI - here is an alternate method, but the test for
an empty string is more straight forward IMHO because
there is only one read statement and it is within 
the while loop.  Note that in your code, the EOF
will be processed like a regular line of data, but
nothing will be done in this case because you will be
searching an empty string.  This is not always the 
case though, so try to think in terms of how the
program executes, which is very difficult for us
transistor-challenged beings.  
 
f=open('adt100_0489.rpt.txt', 'r')
junky = f.readline()
while( junky ) :
         ##  statements should be before the
         ##  readline because it will return an 
         ##  empty string at EOF
         junky = f.readline()

Keep on keeping on though.

> --- In python-list at yahoogroups.com, boutrosp at h...
> wrote:
> > I need some help on a simple text filter. The
> problem I am having is
> > when the file comes to the end it stays in the
> while loop and does 
> not
> > exit. I cannot figure this out. I would use a for
> loop with the
> > readlines() but my datasets can range from 5 to 80
> MB of text data.
> > Here is the code I am using. Please help.
> > 
> > import sys, re
> > 
> > p1 = re.compile('ADT100')
> > p2 = re.compile('AUDIT')
> > p3 = re.compile('HARDWARE')
> > p4 = re.compile('PACKAGES')
> > p5 = re.compile('NODE')
> > p6 = re.compile('DROP')
> > p7 = re.compile('GRID')
> > p8 = re.compile('ATAP')
> > 
> > f=open('adt100_0489.rpt.txt', 'r')
> > junky = 1
> > done = False
> > while not done :
> >         junky = f.readline()
> >         if p1.search(junky) :
> >                 continue
> >         elif p2.search(junky) :
> >                 continue
> >         elif p3.search(junky) :
> >                 continue
> >         elif p4.search(junky) :
> >                 continue
> >         elif p5.search(junky) :
> >                 continue
> >         elif p6.search(junky) :
> >                 continue
> >         elif p7.search(junky) :
> >                 continue
> >         elif p8.search(junky) :
> >                 continue
> >         elif junky == None :
> >                 done = True
> >         else :
> >                 print junky
> > 
> > f.close()
> > -- 
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com




From eat at joes.com  Thu Jun 26 22:57:33 2003
From: eat at joes.com (Jason Kratz)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 02:57:33 GMT
Subject: stupid question about os.listdir
In-Reply-To: <MTNKa.2930$BM.1845254@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
References: <MTNKa.2930$BM.1845254@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <xoOKa.3259$BM.1850510@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

Here is more clarification.   Here is my script called backup.py

import os.path
import os

def getdirs(path):

     dirs = []

     os.chdir(path)
     for entry in os.listdir(path):
         if os.path.isdir(entry):
             dirs.append(entry)

     return dirs

print getdirs('/')


if I run this from the command line on linux with 'python backup.py' it 
works *if* I have os.chdir in there.  if I comment it out it doesnt list 
starting from the root dir...it starts in my home dir.

If go into the interactive command mode by just typing 'python' at the 
prompt and do:

import os
os.listdir('/') then it prints out the dirs under root.

incidentally this happens on windows as well

Jason Kratz wrote:
> OK. I've search on google groups and around the web for this and I 
> haven't found an answer.  I'm a Python newbie and have what I assume is 
> a basic question.  os.listdir takes a pathname as an arg but it doesn't 
> actually list the contents of the dir I pass in.   it always operates on 
> the current dir (wherever the script is run) and I have to chdir 
> beforehand.  Is that how its supposed to work?  If so what is the point 
> in passing in a pathname?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Jason
> 




From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Mon Jun  2 02:49:34 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 06:49:34 GMT
Subject: Named constants -- no such thing as "too obvious"
References: <slrnbde06f.k98.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3ed71a14$0$49099$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <slrnbdl2l3.h32.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <2sCCa.4346$b8.2342@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

Ben Finney wrote:
> On Fri, 30 May 2003, Irmen de Jong wrote:
>> We might as well name the following constants:
>> FIRST_INTEGER_AFTER_ZERO=1
>> NUMBER_OF_DIGITS_IN_BASE_TEN=10
>> FOUR_TIMES_PI=math.pi*4
> 
> These do not define numbers in terms of *intent*, the way that
> HOURS_PER_DAY or BEERS_PER_SLAB do.  They give no context that wasn't
> already present (i.e., that these are numbers).
> 
> Would you disagree, though, with setting these named constants:
> 
> START_ARRAY_INDEX = 1
> NUMBER_BASE = 10
> DEGREES_IN_RIGHT_ANGLE = 90

Yes.  All of these are taking it WAY too far.


> Now there is context for these numbers.  When I use the literal number
> 10 in my code, am I using it because it's the number base I want to use?
> How can you know?

You can read the source code.  IMO, it's a far better to spend your
time making code readable enough so that you don't need a silly name
to know what a constant is used for.


> You'd make an educated guess.  But if I would just
> use NUMBER_BASE instead, you wouldn't have to guess at all.

It's a nice little idea that might be true in your little ideal world.

However, I find, in practice, that excessive use of named constants
can severely decrease the readability of a program.  There are many
reasons.


First, the names chosen for constants are often misleading and lead to
confusion.  For example, take your example NUMER_BASE.  What is the
base?  You think it's entirely clear to me what NUMBER_BASE is, but
it's not.  Sure, I know what it's (supposed to be) used for.  But I
don't know what it IS.  Is it a decimal base?  Hexadecimal?  Some odd
value?  If you use the constant NUMBER_BASE in your code, you'd force
the reader to have to find the definition; whereas, if you use just a
number, then the reader will probably see that it's a base right away
since it's the second argument of int.

What I'm saying is, your argument depends on constants being
well-named, and that's a rare thing, and you have produced a
poorly-named yourself.


Second, sometimes the value of the constant itself is more important
to readability than the name.  I'll give you an example.  Suppose I
have to do the following calculation:

    math.sin(x*PI/2.0)

You want me to write it like this:

    math.sin(x*RADIANS_IN_RIGHT_ANGLE)

I can tell you that it's far, far less readable.  I can't
overemphasize how much less readable the latter is to me.  Why?
Because PI/2.0 is ingrained in me.  I studied engineering; I am at one
with radians.  When I see PI/2.0, I immediately know what I'm looking
at.  When I see RADIANS_IN_RIGHT_ANGLE, I have to think about what it
means and what value it has.  It's not ingrained; I never studied any
engineering equations with such a constant in it.  You see, the named
constant RADIANS_IN_RIGHT_ANGLE makes it harder to read.  The constant
PI, on the other hand, increases readability, because it appears in
all the equations I learned.

I find that a good number of constants I use in my code are more
readable as-is.  Granted, I'm an engineer, and do a lot of number
work.  Most other programmers will not find this to be true as often
as I, but still, sometimes the constant is more readable itself, and
giving such a constant a name is counterproductive.


Third, it can be a pain to debug.  You looking at your code trying to
figure out where the mistake is, and you can't see if there's anything
obvious, because you don't know the values of all the constants.  Not
to mention, there is the possibility of an error in the named constant
itself, which is a hard one to track down.


Fourth, sometimes a number is just a number.  Giving a name to
something that isn't anything other than the number 2, or an entry in
a matrix, is just silly.


Finally, it's often just a lot of work for a very negligible benefit.
You might spend an extra ten minutes defining constants, but it might
only save a grand total two minutes down the line.


What I'm saying is, it's not always a good idea to name every single
constant.  Like most things, discretion is best.  It is very
beneficial to name constants in many situations, but not all.

Something like DEGREES_IN_RIGHT_ANGLE?  It's never going to change,
it's not likely to be misunderstood in context, and the number 90
means more to most people reading it than a verbose phrase.



-- 
CARL BANKS



From bit_bucket5 at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 18 22:03:50 2003
From: bit_bucket5 at hotmail.com (Chris Stromberger)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:03:50 GMT
Subject: The beauty of Python
References: <yrEHa.7094$Hb.127911@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <ha62fv0afdie0brnp0qvhuufb8icavlq6d@4ax.com>

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:10:51 +0200, "Thomas Weholt \( PRIVAT \)"
<2002 at weholt.org> wrote:

>I'm trying to promote Python as an elegant, easy-to-read and intuitive
>language at work and to my programming-buddies. I thought it would be nice
>to have a webpage with examples of the beauty of Python, showing small
>snippets of code solving real-world problems or tasks. If anybody has any
>such examples to offer, I'd be very gratefull. And if it turns out to be any
>interest for this in this group, I'll collect the source-snippets and put
>them on the net.
>
>Best regards,
>Thomas Weholt
>

I don't know if this qualifies, but at my sparse website I have
written up some snippets of Python to contrast with Perl.  This is
mostly an outlet for frustrations encountered at work where Perl is
king and Python is criticized by people who have never bothered to
look at it (and hence Python is not available on our development
boxes).  It may be off base, but may be somewhat useful.  I tried to
not make it too vitriolic!

http://www.strombergers.com/python/






From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jun 23 15:16:32 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:16:32 -0400
Subject: asyncore and (missing) timeout
References: <bd731h$bkn$1@mephisto.sxb.bsf.alcatel.fr> <mailman.1056392247.9677.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EF75210.56F1E119@engcorp.com>

Dave Brueck wrote:
> 
> By definition, the readable and writable methods are _supposed_ to return
> values that make sense as asyncore drives its behavior off those values. The
> high CPU problem you're having goes away if you return values that truly
> reflect the state of your app.
> 
> Also, I better include the standard "have you tried Twisted yet?" response -
> many people seem to like it (although there is terrific educational value in
> getting your asyncore-based program working ;-) ).

In cases like this, the best reason to consider using Twisted is that it
is actually somewhat higher level than asyncore, and you don't have to
deal with quite so many minor details.  It's a pretty subtle difference, 
but sockets are tricky enough already that it can be a real help.

-Peter



From other at cazabon.com  Fri Jun 27 01:51:35 2003
From: other at cazabon.com (Kevin)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 05:51:35 GMT
Subject: Yet another threading question...
References: <mailman.1056639557.22837.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HXQKa.301729$ro6.7464204@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>

I've been pondering the exact same issue, but haven't gotten that far in
wrapping the 3rd-party C library I'm working with.

I was thinking of stubbing the callback to a Python function that sets an
event flag, and have a Python thread monitoring that event to handle it.
I'm not sure if that will cure your access violation, but it may.  You
should also make sure that your wrapper gets the GIL (Python Global
Intepreter Lock) before making the Python function call to set the event.

Let me know if you try that, or if you get it to work some other way... I'll
be beating my head into the same problem pretty soon and could use the heads
up!

Thanks,
Kevin Cazabon


"Jim West" <Jim.West at checklogix.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1056639557.22837.python-list at python.org...
> Good day all,
>
>   Ok, I'm starting to get the hang of this Python thing...really pretty
> cool actually.  Again, thanx to those that have helped me thus far.
>
>   I now have another stumbling block to which I would like help.
>
>   Ok, here is my enviroment:
>
>         Windows 2K
>         Python 2.2
>         MinGW and MSys
>
>   I'm writing a Python extension to a 3rd party DLL that controls an
> external hardware toy.
>
>   One of the DLL methods is a callback registration interface.  The 3rd
> party DLL is threaded as the callback is asynchronous.
>
>   I'm able to call my extension function via Python to "register" my
> Python function as the callback function via a C function proxy in the
> extension.
>
>   All is well until the DLL invokes the callback.  When the callback
> attempts to invoke my "registered" Python function the Python
> interpreter bails with an access violation.
>
>   I'm thinking it may have something to do with threading and thus am
> asking for your insight to this.
>
>   I'm thinking I may have to put my proxy C callback function in it's
> own thread.  If so, then would some kind soul point me in the right
> direction as to how to do this with just the MinGW environment since we
> do not have nor use MSVC++.
>
>   Thank you.
>
> - Jim
>
>
>





From postmaster at paytec.com  Mon Jun 30 11:58:55 2003
From: postmaster at paytec.com (System Administrator)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:58:55 -0400
Subject: Undeliverable: Re: Application
Message-ID: <A0EEF3A849C597469AB028F4BC75ECFB01451A68@grommit.internal.paytec.com>

Your message

  To:      jc.mann at paytec.com
  Subject: Re: Application
  Sent:    Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:03:20 -0400

did not reach the following recipient(s):

JC.MANN at PAYTEC.COM on Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:58:47 -0400
    The recipient name is not recognized
	The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=us;a= ;p=payment
technolo;l=GROMMIT0306301558NHGWG78P
    MSEXCH:IMS:Payment Technologies:PTI:GROMMIT 0 (000C05A6) Unknown
Recipient


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Subject: Re: Application
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From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jun  8 02:45:42 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 08 Jun 2003 08:45:42 +0200
Subject: Kerberos authentication for IMAP?
References: <bbtrf1$dbiin$1@ID-58778.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <m3y90dvzhl.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Alan Hoyle <alanh at unc.edu> writes:

> Which seems a bit more promising than the how can I set this up to use
> my Kerberos tokens or TGT? 

The tricky part is, perhaps, to fetch the token from the ticket
cache. This would normally require wrappig the Kerberos library as a
Python module, which hasn't been done for Kerberos 4; perhaps you
could adapt

http://starship.python.net/crew/fdrake/manuals/krb5py/
http://pygss.sourceforge.net/

Alternatively, you could try invoking command line utilities, and try
to generate an authenticator from that.

HTH,
Martin




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Jun 18 17:34:37 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 23:34:37 +0200
Subject: daily python URL needs to have archives.
References: <pan.2003.06.16.18.09.02.409056@asd.com> <3eee0e50$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>
Message-ID: <bcqltn$gda$1@main.gmane.org>

Daniel Fackrell wrote:

> Google Groups may provide what you need.  It appears that there are
> presently 522 matches based on the following search, some of which will
> undoubtedly be follow-ups.
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=python-url&meta=group%3Dcomp.lang.python

footnote: the daily URL and the weekly URL posting are two
different things.

</F>







From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Jun 20 12:02:50 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:02:50 -0400
Subject: freeing objects
References: <3EF2D852.2050101@irst.itc.it> <mailman.1056107842.11261.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6S2dndtXzti2rW6jXTWJhQ@comcast.com>

"delphiro" <delphiro at zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:mailman.1056107842.11261.python-list at python.org...
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am writing an application where I use Chaco for the excellent
graphical output and now I have a question about creating / freeing
objects.
>
> I use this code to create and assign a chaco-object (a 'vertical')
to my dialog:
>
> self.plotitem = PlotCanvas( pv1, PlotTitle( 'Soilstress in vertical
..' ), plot_type = 'rangebar', axis_index = x_ax, axis = y_ax )
>
> now the user has the possibility to change the view to another
'vertical' so self.plotitem should be assigned to another PlotCanvas
and the old one should disappear.
>
> What is the correct way to do this?
>
> should I 'free' self.plotitem before assigning a new PlotCanvas to
self.plotitem and if so, how do you 'free' objects in Python?

'Deleting' an item actually and only deletes the association between
the handle (name, attribute, or collection slot) and the object.
Assigning a new object to a handle implicitly does a delete with
respect to the old association.  For this much, an explicit delete
would be redundant.

When the association or reference count goes to 0, the interpreter
*may* do some sort of cleanup, including calling its __delete__
method.  Whether and when it *does* so can and does depend on the
implementation.  If you need to make explicitly sure cleanup is done,
give the object a close method and call it before breaking your link
to it.

Terry J. Reedy





From news at manuelmgarcia.com  Thu Jun 12 13:36:14 2003
From: news at manuelmgarcia.com (Manuel Garcia)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:36:14 GMT
Subject: why 'lambda' and 'reduce'?
References: <arnfevstdtqohla2l39717ch56saip8qce@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <p1dhev8j9va3driskk3dne6goavg8altj3@4ax.com>

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 02:21:57 GMT, Manuel Garcia
<news at manuelmgarcia.com> wrote:

>If anyone ever asks for what good are 'lambda' and 'reduce', show them
>this...

Last night I was thinking about this silly code, and figured out a way
to:

1) add just one more character to the progam, so the expression goes
from 298 characters to 299 characters.
2) double the speed
3) most importantly, add another lambda!

print (lambda p:p[0]+'.'+p[1:])(
    str((lambda(x,y,t,a):2L*x*x//a)(
        (lambda F:(lambda S:reduce(
            lambda(x,y,t,a),_:
            (lambda x1,y1:(x1,y1,2L*t,
                (a-(t*(x1**2-y1**2))//F)))(
                    (x+y)//2L,S((x*y)//F)),
            [0]*13,(F,(F*F)//S(2L*F),2L,F//2L)))(
                lambda n:reduce(lambda x,_:(
                    x-x//2L+(n*F)//(2L*x)),[0]*15,
                n//2L)))(10L**(5010))))[:5000])

the output is still perfectly accurate, of course.  (Runs pretty fast
in Python 2.3b1, actually)

(btw I don't see why it only 'almost' qualifies for an "obfuscated"
code contest.  I wrote it, and I forgot how it worked around the time
I added the third 'lambda' ;-)

Manuel



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jun  5 22:22:35 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 22:22:35 -0400
Subject: Twisted Panglossia
References: <u65nk5x8p.fsf@fitlinxx.com>, <u65nl7mrd.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
	 <3eddd372$0$16609$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	 <%RlDa.239$R44.10990@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
	 <3mmDa.18175$8g5.301248@news2.e.nsc.no> <3EDE1F04.30539A1A@engcorp.com>
	 <mailman.1054749788.8638.python-list@python.org>
	 <mailman.1054830612.3231.python-list@python.org> <w/43+kKkXUlb092yn@gnosis.cx> <mailman.1054839913.384.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3EDFFAEB.C7453189@engcorp.com>

David Mertz wrote:

> But I've noticed something both on the Twisted list, and when Twisted
> has come up here on c.l.py recently.  The Twisted developers have a
> greater excess of enthusiasm for their package than do the developers of
> other large frameworks ...

[snip perceived examples of this excess]

> Now as with all such critics, I will quickly proclaim that the Twisted
> developers are excellent programmers, and the range of capabilities in
> there is fairly amazing.  But there *are* these old stories about the
> pitfalls of hubris that keep coming to mind... not that I'm advocating
> eye-gauging or anything, just moderation :-).

(My eyes are just the size I want them to be, but feel free to measure
them if you are into that kind of thing...)

I just want to point out, as one of those recently becoming a little
enthusiastic about promoting Twisted, that I am *not* one of its 
developers.  I might become one, at some point, once I'm past the stage
of putting it to good use to clean up some of the past messes I've
created using those other large frameworks you mention...

I mention this as a balance point, to demonstrate that at least some
people, after experience with a handful of such beasties, are 
supporting Twisted on its own merits, not just because they have
too much of their own egos bound up in it. (*)

-Peter

(*) I don't mean to say the Twisted folks promote it only, or even
at all, for such reasons, but your post might be taking as implying
that is the case.



From m at moshez.org  Tue Jun 17 05:09:18 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 17 Jun 2003 09:09:18 -0000
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <qyzHa.100693$pR3.2190677@news1.tin.it>
References: <qyzHa.100693$pR3.2190677@news1.tin.it>, <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EECED65.ACF1A6B7@engcorp.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <mailman.1055784208.22718.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1055813915.12726.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030617090918.9697.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003, Alex Martelli <aleax at aleax.it> wrote:

> Good thing your job isn't accounting

Right

> -- if you tried putting, on a
> company's balance sheet, the source code it owns under "liabilities",
> rather than under "assets", you'd be in for malpractice lawsuits to
> dwarf Enron's (tax authorities might be particularly likely to take
> a dim view in the matter).

And *that's* the reason it's a good thing my job isn't accounting?
[What do you think those "salaries for people who maintain the source" and
"various developing environments" expenses *are*, if not the translation
to accounting-lingo? How come we weren't sued for malpractice when my
bosses authorized me to delete heaping gobs of code? Just because
translating from sane-speak to accountant-lingo is non-trivial does
not mean source code is not a liability]
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From gerard.sookahet at artenum.com  Wed Jun 18 05:30:39 2003
From: gerard.sookahet at artenum.com (gerard Sookahet)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:30:39 +0200
Subject: Embeding Java code in C-Python
Message-ID: <3EF0313F.F7B4C888@artenum.com>

Hello,

Is it possible to embed Java code in C-Python ?

Thanks in advance.

GS



From bsimuyandi at africonnect.com  Wed Jun 11 11:06:01 2003
From: bsimuyandi at africonnect.com (Ben Simuyandi)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:06:01 +0100
Subject: Newbie: changing an attribute of objects in a list
References: <bc72gq$cv3$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <bc7gcd$ncf$1@main.gmane.org>

OK, I've read a bit and I've now changed the code. If anyone would like to
give feedback (better ways of doing it, where am I going wrong) that would
be appreciated:

n=0
while n < len(contents):
  def order(n, contents):
    m = 0
    while m < len(contents):
      if contents[n].getId != contents[m].getId:
        norder=int(contents[n].rights)
        morder=int(contents[m].rights)
        if norder==morder:
          if contents[n].modified < contents[m].modified:
            norder=norder+1
            <set object ordering value to norder>
            order(n, contents)
          elif contents[m].modified < contents[n].modified:
            morder=morder+1
            <set object ordering value to morder>
            order(m, contents)
      m=m+1
    n=n+1
  order(n, contents)

"Ben Simuyandi" <bsimuyandi at africonnect.com> wrote in message
news:bc72gq$cv3$1 at main.gmane.org...
> Hello. I am very new to Python and I'm stuck with a problem. I am using
> Zope, and the problem is:
>
> I have a list of objects, each of which has several attributes. I would
like
> to sort these objects by a specific attribute, which is a string. This I
can
> manage OK. But if two objects have the same attribute value, I would like
to
> change the older (age determined by another attribute) object's attribute
> to a new value of (old value+1), then go through the list and see if any
> other object has this value, if so give it (old value+2) etc.
>
> I hope I have made the problem clear. I know that my code is wrong, but I
> would like some hints as to what I am doing wrong. Some of it comes down
to
> a lack of understanding of Python.
>
> The ordering attribute I'll call "ordering", the age attribute I'll call
> "age", and the list of objects is "contents". I thought that the way to do
> this was by calling a function recursively. Anyway, below is the code, any
> feedback is appreciated.
>
>
> def check_listingorder(x, contents):
>   for y in contents:
>     if x.Id != y.Id:                                           #each
object
> has a unique id
>       xorder=int(x.ordering)                             #convert the
string
> to an integer
>       yorder=int(y.ordering)
>       if xorder==yorder:                                    #if the
ordering
> attribute is the same then...
>         if x.age> y.age:                                       #if x is
> older than y then...
>           xorder=xorder+1
>          <set object ordering value to xorder>
>           check_listingorder(x, contents)
> #call function again?
>         elif y.age> x.age:                                       #if y is
> older than x then...
>           yorder=yorder+1
>          <set object ordering value to yorder>
>           check_listingorder(y, contents)
#call
> function again?
>   return contents                                                #return
the
> list?
>
> for x in contents:
#originally
> called with:
>   check_listingorder(x, contents)
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>







From pxtl at hotmail.com  Mon Jun  9 22:43:41 2003
From: pxtl at hotmail.com (martin z)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:43:41 GMT
Subject: Error checking in Python
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306090952001.1841-100000@linux.local> <yfsn0grjpqo.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <xBbFa.42682$3Sm.39887@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

Actually, in this vein, I often have aproblem with the Python C Api in that
it is very rigidly typed.  Most of the major documented operations are
specifically to the built-in types.  That is, there's no
PyMap_GetItemString - but there is PyDict_GetItemString, which only works
with a dictionary.  If there is such a function, it is poorly documented.
This sort of problem abounds in the C Api.

Idunno, I guess there's no point to this post.  I'm just complaining.





From paul at boddie.net  Tue Jun 24 05:21:20 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 24 Jun 2003 02:21:20 -0700
Subject: XML
References: <mailman.1056387220.30017.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0306240121.6a71a140@posting.google.com>

Roman Suzi <rnd at onego.ru> wrote in message news:<mailman.1056387220.30017.python-list at python.org>...
> 
> OK. When I was talking about plain text, I had in mind that it 
> has some proprietary format. For example, I can easily write:
> 
> ------------------
> foo = "123"
> bar = "456"
> zoo = "la\"lala"
> ------------------
> 
> And it's not very hard to parse that. 

Well, you can just write that in a module and have Python import it.
;-) And I don't see anything wrong with that, actually. In various
situations, particularly the oft-quoted configuration file example,
this is a lot more interesting than XML, for Python applications at
least.

> In case of XML I will need something like
> 
> <?xml version="1.0"?>
> <foo>123</foo><bar>456</bar><zoo>la&quot;lala</zoo>
> 
> - not a big deal, but it's harder to parse. And also XML software keeps
> changing (or so it seems), and this gives a sense of instability.

How hard is it to call a parse function on some XML module? (Bearing
in mind that your example isn't a well-formed XML document since it
doesn't have a single root element, even though I do like using "zoo"
elements in examples myself. :-) )

> XML always gives me a feeling that I do not fully master it (especially it's
> DTD part)! And this is after two years of trying to understand it. (Cf: with
> Python felt at home after a week or two!)

It can often be a question of ambition, since I can imagine that many
people don't really use DTDs or XML Schemas to get their work done. In
any case, it isn't clear what the corresponding technology to DTD is
in the Python environment - optional, but not yet invented, static
type annotations?

> P.S. Just look at the neighboor thread:
> Subject: minidom toxml() not emitting attribute namespace qualifier
> 
> > Using Python 2.2.3, with this example code:
> 
> [Code elided]
> 
> > The output is missing the "myns" namespace qualifier on the "att"
> > attribute. Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Could be that if one is calling setAttributeNS on an element, one has
to specify the prefix as part of the name parameter - that isn't
obvious and I made that mistake before I became more acquainted with
the API.

> That's a bug in minidom.
> 
> I reported it back in November 2002, but I wasn't precise enough about version
> numbers, so it went unaddressed.

Well, I was convinced about the bug status until I looked deeper and
realised that I was doing stuff wrong. Perhaps it's a documentation
issue, and perhaps the maintainers of PyXML really have a lot of work
to do, and perhaps it isn't easy to maintain various standard API
implementations (as Andrew Kuchling suggests), but I do believe that
the various XML technologies available for Python are very useful
things to be familiar with, despite what people may claim.

It may be the case that you don't see a need for XML in your work. In
my opinion it's completely acceptable to not use XML if you find it
completely irrelevant, unfathomable or opaque, but I respect your
desire to become aware of what the technology can offer. I'm reminded
of the occasional article written by people who ask others to
"convince me why I should run Linux" - the only useful response is
that if one can't see a need to try it without writing a public
document asking others to persuade them, then they probably shouldn't
be spending too much time worrying about it.

Paul



From cdreward at riaa.com  Fri Jun  6 21:28:07 2003
From: cdreward at riaa.com (Chuck)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 01:28:07 GMT
Subject: list.index
References: <mailman.1054907593.7461.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fqf2evk8doggq726ghevl4co4kg0ld236m@4ax.com>

>try:
>  x = self.selected_points.index( self.pointmarker )
>  colour = DEFAULT_SELECTED_POINT_COLOUR

you spelled "color" wrong!


(*grin*)




From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Fri Jun  6 16:08:52 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 21:08:52 +0100
Subject: Numeric don't compare arrays correctly
References: <3EDFBACD.2090802@wanadoo.es>
Message-ID: <yfsbrxbufxn.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Maurix <maurix78_remove_this_ at wanadoo.es> writes:

> Hi to all,
> I'm new in python world and in this group too so, nice to meet you all ;-)
> I have a problem with Numeric: (linux, python2.2, numeric 21.0)
> 
> It seem that don't compare correctly arrays.
> 
> See at this session:
> 
>  >>> a=array([1.1,2.2,3.3,4.4,5.5])
>  >>> print 2.<a<4.

This is just a python wart, reflecting the unhappy interaction between two
sometimes convinient but somewhat messy language features.

Feature 1:

a < b < c in most programming languages is the same as (a < b) < c. Python
instead treats such chained comparisons specially to make them behave as is
typical in (the somewhat messy) standard math notation.

So ``1 < 3 < 4`` is False and not True, because it is treated as 
``1 < 3 and 3 < 4``. 

Feature 2:

Rich comparisons. a > b can return *anything*, not just 0/False 1/True. In
particular it is used. In particular, Numeric returns elementwise comparison
arrays for ``array1 < array2``. My personal feeling is that allowing this was
a bad idea one symptom is that it clashes with Feature 1 (
``array1 < array2 < array3`` = ``array1 < array2 and array 2< array 3`` =
``array` < array 2`` if at least one element in array1 is smaller than in
array 2 = not what you most likely want).


'as



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Jun  3 19:12:00 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 19:12:00 -0400
Subject: Help with coroutine-based state machines?
References: <3ED622CA.4B01E3C1@hotmail.com>
 <mailman.1054249933.7365.python-list@python.org>
 <3ED76105.CB8F3ECF@hotmail.com>
 <mailman.1054317657.5272.python-list@python.org>
 <3EDC69DF.A46A97D4@hotmail.com> <qHS3+kKkX4xN092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <AtS3+kKkX81L092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote previously:
|def squares(n):
|    for i in xrange(n):
|        yield n, n*n
|sqgen = squares(100)
|for i, sq in sqgen():
|    print "The square of %d is %d" % (i, sq)

Should be:

    def squares(n):
        for i in xrange(n):
            yield i, i*i    # <-- i
    sqgen = squares(100)
    for i, sq in sqgen:     # <-- no parens
        print "The square of %d is %d" % (i, sq)

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.




From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jun 14 11:07:51 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 14 Jun 2003 16:07:51 +0100
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] PyKota v1.08 is out
References: <pan.2003.06.13.20.11.22.820318@unice.fr>
Message-ID: <87isr8g0jc.fsf@pobox.com>

Jerome Alet <alet at unice.fr> writes:

> I'm pleased to announce that PyKota v1.08 is out.

Why do people announce to c.l.py, instead of c.l.py.announce?

I'm not complaining -- it's just that, I guess, people who want to
read announcements, go to the announcements group.  :-)


John



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jun 13 16:30:54 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:30:54 +0200
Subject: I don't understand this regex.groups() behaviour
References: <20030613183429.GA27641@pedos.es>
Message-ID: <bcdc66$b1q$1@main.gmane.org>

Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz wrote:

> I don't understand why the last two sentences of the following
> interactive session don't return more than two groups.

because there are only two group markers in your expression,
of course.

if you want multiple matches, use findall.

</F>







From sabu at pure-elite.org  Sun Jun 29 19:53:25 2003
From: sabu at pure-elite.org (Xavier)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 19:53:25 -0400
Subject: Re/Unresolved bug?
References: <001c01c33d4d$453a9870$6401a8c0@boxen> <20030628072655.A379@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus> <006e01c33dd4$1f3d54a0$6401a8c0@boxen> <20030629124833.A487@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
Message-ID: <001601c33e99$a17d2ec0$6401a8c0@boxen>

Steven,

Thanks a lot for your time and great reply -- I appreciate it greatly.

-- Xavier

oderint dum mutuant
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Taschuk" <staschuk at telusplanet.net>
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: Re/Unresolved bug?


> Quoth Xavier:
>   [top-posting fixed]
> > From: "Steven Taschuk" <staschuk at telusplanet.net>
> > > Could you post a minimal example of code which provokes this
> > > behaviour?
>   [...]
> > Thanks for your reply.  Here is the exact, waiting to be fixed code:
> > http://sabu.net/routekill.py
> 
> That is very far from a minimal example.  What you should do is
> cut out some code, verify that the problem still exists, and
> repeat until you can't cut out anything without making the problem
> go away.  Doing so has two advantages: first, a short example is
> much more likely to provoke responses here, and second, the
> process itself might teach you what the problem is.
> 
> Having had some spare time today, I've done this for you.  Here's
> the (not *quite* minimal, actually) result:
> 
>     def addroutes(IP, METHOD):
>         global METHOD
> 
>     def main():
>         global VERBOSE
>         VERBOSE = '1'
>         global VERBOSE
> 
>     print 'foo'
> 
> On my machine, with 2.2.2 this code issues the SyntaxWarning and
> then segfaults, and on 2.3 issues the SyntaxWarning and dies
> without printing 'foo'.
> 
> There are two things wrong with this code.  To get it running,
> first remove the second global statement for VERBOSE.  Once that's
> done, the code will start producing
>     SyntaxError: name 'METHOD' is local and global
> Thus the second thing you need to do is to decide whether you want
> METHOD to be an argument to addroutes() or a global variable to
> that function, and then either remove the global statement or
> emend the argument list.
> 
> Once you've done these two things the code will run; I leave
> determining whether it works to you.
> 
> (Python's reaction to this code *is* buggy -- it seems that the
> SyntaxWarning interferes with the SyntaxError somehow.  (My
> original suspicion that the SyntaxWarning was irrelevant was
> wrong.)  I'll be looking into this today.)
> 
> -- 
> Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
> "What I find most baffling about that song is that it was not a hit."
>                                           -- Tony Dylan Davis (CKUA)
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 





From wester at ilt.fhg.de  Fri Jun  6 12:03:45 2003
From: wester at ilt.fhg.de (Rolf Wester)
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 18:03:45 +0200
Subject: Socket Problem on True64 Alpha
Message-ID: <bbqe12$7au$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>

Hi,

I just tried the socket server examples that are in the Python docs on a 
Tru64 Alpha machine. My Python version is 2.2.1. Unfortunately these 
examples don't work. This:

import socket
HOST = ''                 # Symbolic name meaning the local host
PORT = 50007              # Arbitrary non-privileged port
s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
s.bind((HOST, PORT))

gives the error message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "server.py", line 7, in ?
     s.bind((HOST, PORT))
socket.gaierror: (9, 'The service passed was not recognized for the 
specified socket type.')

and this:

import socket
import sys

HOST = ''                 # Symbolic name meaning the local host
PORT = 50007              # Arbitrary non-privileged port
s = None
for res in socket.getaddrinfo(HOST, PORT, socket.AF_UNSPEC,
                              socket.SOCK_STREAM,
                              0,socket.AI_PASSIVE):


results in:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "socket2.py", line 8, in ?
     for res in socket.getaddrinfo(HOST, PORT, socket.AF_UNSPEC, 
socket.SOCK_STREAM, 0, socket.AI_PASSIVE):
socket.gaierror: (8, 'Name does not resolv to supplied parameters; 
neither nodename nor servname were passed.')


I don't have any idea what is wrong here. I would be very appreciative 
for any help.

Thanks in advance

Rolf Wester




From exarkun at intarweb.us  Wed Jun 25 13:20:26 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:20:26 -0400
Subject: Newbie Question: can this snippet be optimized?
In-Reply-To: <3ef9ba07.117801375@news.skynet.be>
References: <3ef9ba07.117801375@news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <20030625172026.GB26272@meson.dyndns.org>

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 03:08:00PM +0000, Hedr at intarweb.us wrote:
> Hi Pythonians,
> 
> The underlying snippet is copied from minidom.py which is in the XML
> package which I am currently using. Cloning nodes seem to take a
> considerable amount of time, hence I went looking in the code whether
> optimizations could be made. The following snippet contains a for
> loop:
> 
>     def cloneNode(self, deep):
>         clone = Node.cloneNode(self, deep)
>         clone._attrs = {}
>         clone._attrsNS = {}
>         for attr in self._attrs.values():
>             node = attr.cloneNode(1)
>             clone._attrs[node.name] = node
>             clone._attrsNS[(node.namespaceURI, node.localName)] = node
>             node.ownerElement = clone
>         return clone

  Using "itervalues" instead of "values" may produce some minor improvement.
values() creates a new list object containing references to all the values
in the dictionary, while itervalues() only creates a very light-weight
iterator.

  Jp

-- 
Seduced, shaggy Samson snored.
She scissored short.  Sorely shorn,
Soon shackled slave, Samson sighed,
Silently scheming,
Sightlessly seeking
Some savage, spectacular suicide.
                -- Stanislaw Lem, "Cyberiad"




From zephyr01 at alltel.net  Fri Jun 13 19:51:20 2003
From: zephyr01 at alltel.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:51:20 -0400
Subject: getFoo1() vs. class.foo1
In-Reply-To: <z7tGa.87450$pR3.1850658@news1.tin.it>
References: <z7tGa.87450$pR3.1850658@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3EEA6378.1070206@alltel.net>

Manuel wrote:
> Hi, I'm python beginner.
> My first class is very simple, like
> 
> class VerySimple:
>         foo1 = 1
>         foo2 = 2
>         foo3 = 3
> etc...
> 
> Any professional developers tell me that
> I must use get and set (to private variable)
> method instead.

They're wrong.  :-)  It's possible to define private attributes, kind of, but 
Python doesn't encourage it, and often you don't need it.  But that's a 
discussion for another time.

Besides that, this is how you usually add and initialize attributes:

class VerySimple:
     def __init__(self):
         self.foo1 = 1
         self.foo2 = 2
         self.foo3 = 3

These are instance attributes; attributes like

class VerySimple:
     foo1 = 1

are class attributes, which are shared by all instances of that class.

> class VerySimple:
>         __foo1 = 1
>         __foo2 = 2
>         __foo3 = 3
> 
>        def getFoo1(self):
>             return __foo1

By the way, this code won't work, because __foo1 isn't known inside the body of 
method getFoo1.  Ditto for the other methods.  To set a class attribute, use 
something like

   self.__class__.foo = 'bar'

HTH,






From eric at enthought.com  Fri Jun 27 18:08:02 2003
From: eric at enthought.com (eric jones)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:08:02 -0500
Subject: [ANN] SciPy '03 -- The 2nd Annual Python for Scientific Computing Workshop
Message-ID: <015701c33cf8$96be3670$8901a8c0@ERICDESKTOP>

Hey folks,

I've been postponing this announcement because the registration page
isn't active yet.  It's getting late though, and I thought I'd at least
let you know SciPy '03 is happening.  I'll repost when registration is
open.

Thanks,
Eric

-------------------------------------------------------
SciPy '03
The 2nd Annual Python for Scientific Computing Workshop
-------------------------------------------------------

CalTech, Pasadena, CA
September 11-12, 2003

http://www.scipy.org/site_content/scipy03

This workshop provides a unique opportunity to learn and affect what is
happening in the realm of scientific computing with Python. Attendees
will have the opportunity to review the available tools and how they
apply to specific problems. By providing a forum for developers to share
their Python expertise with the wider industrial, academic, and research
communities, this workshop will foster collaboration and facilitate the
sharing of software components, techniques and a vision for high level
language use in scientific computing.

The cost of the workshop is $100.00 and includes 2 breakfasts and 2
lunches on Sept. 11th and 12th, one dinner on Sept. 11th, and snacks
during breaks.  Online registration is not available yet, but will be
soon.

We would like to have a wide variety of presenters this year.  If you
have a paper you would like to present, please contact
eric at enthought.com.

Discussion about the conference may be directed to the SciPy-user
mailing list:

Mailing list page:     http://www.scipy.org/MailList
Mailinbg list address: scipy-user at scipy.org

Please forward this announcement to anyone/list that might be
interested.


-------------
Co-Hosted By:
-------------

The National Biomedical Computation Resource (NBCR, SDSC, San Diego, CA)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://nbcr.sdsc.edu
The mission of the National Biomedical Computation Resource at the San
Diego
Supercomputer Center is to conduct, catalyze, and enable biomedical
research by harnessing advanced computational technology.


The Center for Advanced Computing Research (CACR, CalTech, Pasadena, CA)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://nbcr.sdsc.edu
CACR is dedicated to the pursuit of excellence in the field of
high-performance computing, communication, and data engineering. Major
activities include carrying out large-scale scientific and engineering
applications on parallel supercomputers and coordinating collaborative
research projects on high-speed network technologies, distributed
computing and database methodologies, and related topics. Our goal is to
help further the state of the art in scientific computing.


Enthought, Inc. (Austin, TX)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://enthought.com
Enthought, Inc. provides scientific and business computing solutions
through software development, consulting and training.


----------------------------------------------
eric jones                    515 Congress Ave
www.enthought.com             Suite 1614
512 536-1057                  Austin, Tx 78701 








From tertiusc at netscape.net  Thu Jun 19 17:49:02 2003
From: tertiusc at netscape.net (Tertius)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:49:02 +0200
Subject: sqlite select max() on integer field returns quoted value
References: <3EF0D8CB.6010203@netscape.net> <3EF0DA8E.5060800@netscape.net> <e9570f37.0306190625.5c7fba06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EF22FCE.5050908@netscape.net>

Thanks Graham...It does work yes.
Also for the explanation of the "max() type". I just presumed that the 
type of the column in question would be returned.
Guess i'll have to pay more attention to sqlite *types* :)

Tertius


Graham Fawcett wrote:
> Does this work?
> 
> cnx = connect('db')
> c = cnx.cursor()
> c.execute('-- types int')
> c.execute('select max(id) from table')
> 
> Check out:
> http://pysqlite.sourceforge.net/documentation/pysqlite/node10.html
> 
> "SQLite is typeless. It stores all data as text. However, all data
> returned from PySQLite are cast into their respective Python types as
> declared in the database schema, provided that said types are standard
> ANSI SQL type (e.g. VARCHAR, INT, FLOAT, etc.)."
> 
> Based on this, my guess is that PySQLite is having trouble figuring
> out what the type of a max() result ought to be, since max is not in
> your schema (of course).
> 
> -- Graham





From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jun 21 03:09:21 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 21 Jun 2003 07:09:21 GMT
Subject: Newbie wordnet and pywordnet
References: <9c1c646f.0306201734.7aced3b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bd10b1$5hb$0@216.39.172.122>

On 20 Jun 2003 18:34:37 -0700, dwimansjur at hotmail.com (Dwi Sianto Mansjur) wrote:

>I am trying to use pywordnet in window environment.
>After extracting pywordnet into python folder, I am not sure how to
>include the wordnet database so that python recognize it.
>
>Running a simple example, I got the following error message.
>>>>N['dog']
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "C:\Python23\o90.py", line 5, in ?
>    N['dog']
>NameError: name 'N' is not defined
>
>thanks in advance...

Suggest typing

    help('wordnet')

which will tell you to import thus:

    from wordnet import *

after which N['dog'] should work, if everything was installed ok.

If it wasn't, read INSTALL.txt and README.txt from your downloaded archive
(pywordnet-1_4.zip ?)

If that doesn't get you there, we'll have to try again ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Fri Jun  6 18:58:03 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 15:58:03 -0700
Subject: Is Python lightweight?
In-Reply-To: <8b336527.0306061439.72d23063@posting.google.com>
References: <8b336527.0306061439.72d23063@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1054940283.2139.235.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Fri, 2003-06-06 at 15:39, kk wrote:
> I just read a comment to an article claiming that an application
> sucked, and the reason was because it was written in Python.  It went
> on to say that it pulls in some 40MB (I assume into memory), and
> insinuated that it was "bloat-ware". In case you really care, the
> application they were talking about is Redhat's "Up To Date" (software
> update tool).

Was this on a RH mailing list?  Which one?  I haven't flamed anyone on
any of the RH lists in a couple of weeks and this seems like a good time
to get back into the swing <cracks knuckle>.  There are a
disproportionate number of monkeys pounding on keyboards on a few of
those lists.  I'd always thought Linux users would be... well, never
mind.  Apparently the surge in Linux popularity has its downside as
well.

> I know this is a silly argument, and I should forget about it. 
> However, I really have fallen in love with Python even though I
> haven't been doing it very long.  So, I've been thinking... How would
> you measure the amount of "bloat" that an application has, on windows?
>  On Linux?  Has anyone compared the Python interpreter "foot-print" to
> Java, Perl, PHP, VB, etc... I guess if you had a GUI then you would
> have to add the size of the GUI libraries (and with Tk, the TCL
> interpreter).

Bloatware can be written in any language.  Most likely they are keeping
huge amounts of data in RAM (dependency trees?) and this has little to
do with Python.

Of course, the alternative to bloatware is often noware.  If RH wasn't
using Python for a lot of their administrative tools (and installer)
then it seems quite likely that a large number of those tools wouldn't
even exist.  I can only imagine how complicated up2date would be were it
written in C.

> Anyway, my question is, how can I measure this for myself?

Start Python (without running any Python scripts).  Check memory usage. 
Anything above and beyond that is the application's fault.  Well, not
entirely, but you get the idea.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From missive at frontiernet.net  Tue Jun 17 18:32:11 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 22:32:11 GMT
Subject: Looking for Info on installing Python and wxPython on a disk.
References: <veta0f2uce3ide@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbev5ou.ipo.missive@localhost.my.domain>

In article <veta0f2uce3ide at corp.supernews.com>, Pat wrote:
> Hello, I've been trying to find it myself but no luck yet. The problem is
> that a friend of mine uses a library computer and is not allowed to install
> anything on it. He wants to know if there is a way to install python,
> wxpython and another program on a cd and be able to run it from a windows os
> machine. I told him that I would look around and see what I can find out.
> Neither of us are very good programmers, still learning the basics of python
> myself and he wants to start.
> 
> If any one can point me to the site, I would be very grateful.
> 


You should look at knoppix:
http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html


Doesn't look like it has wx, but it has a ton of other interesting things:
http://download.linuxtag.org/knoppix/packages.txt

You could probably figure out how to get wx in there too.

The best part is that it starts to free you from windows.




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sun Jun  8 08:04:30 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 8 Jun 2003 05:04:30 -0700
Subject: a = b = 1 just syntactic sugar?
References: <mailman.1054839136.1931.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0306070837.789f2a9f@posting.google.com> <l13cilipsy.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306080404.47f621bf@posting.google.com>

Ed Avis <ed at membled.com> wrote in message news:<l13cilipsy.fsf at budvar.future-i.net>...

> A couple more anomalous cases could be cleaned up by adding dict.set
> as a counterpart of dict.setdefault

Am I mistaken or you want dict.__setitem__ ?


                                                      Michele



From gh at ghaering.de  Sat Jun  7 13:30:21 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 19:30:21 +0200
Subject: Play a short sound...
In-Reply-To: <I4pEa.92985$g92.2171956@news2.tin.it>
References: <PnlEa.55289$pR3.1169900@news1.tin.it>
	<mailman.1054991715.24909.python-list@python.org>
	<HLmEa.92242$g92.2147986@news2.tin.it>
	<mailman.1054999754.30716.python-list@python.org>
	<I4pEa.92985$g92.2171956@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3EE2212C.9000409@ghaering.de>

Manuel wrote:
>>No, only windows platforms
> 
> 
> :-(
> 
> It's strange...no sound libraries under linux??

Of course there are, just not in the standard library.

Wait, there's even a Linux-specific module in the standard library: 
'linuxaudiodev', but it's pretty low-level. This again is Linux-specific 
and won't work on other Unix-like operating systems, like FreeBSD or 
NetBSD, or Solaris, ...

Of course there are many third-party modules not in the standard library 
  that can be used for audio output. I only ever used the one in pygame 
just for fun.

Many of these work cross-platform.

Perhaps snack is what you want:

http://www.speech.kth.se/snack/

"""
[...]
Multi-platform, same scripts usable on Windows 95/98/NT/2K/XP, Linux, 
Macintosh, Sun Solaris, HP-UX, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and SGI IRIX.
[...]
"""

HTH,

-- Gerhard




From printers at sendme.cz  Fri Jun 13 16:52:16 2003
From: printers at sendme.cz (A)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:52:16 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to change Content-type?
Message-ID: <3EEA55A0.4615.E54103@localhost>

Hi,
 Suppose we have the following form:
 <FORM action="http://server.com/cgi/handle"
       enctype="multipart/form-data"
       method="post">
   <P>
   What is your name? <INPUT type="text" name="submit-name"><BR>
   What files are you sending? <INPUT type="file" 
name="files"><BR>
   <INPUT type="submit" value="Send"> <INPUT type="reset">
 </FORM>
If the user enters "Larry" in the text input, and selects the text file "file1.txt", the user 
agent might send back the following data:
   Content-Type: multipart/form-data; boundary=AaB03x

   --AaB03x
   Content-Disposition: form-data; name="submit-name"

   Larry
   --AaB03x
   Content-Disposition: form-data; name="files"; 
filename="file1.txt"
   Content-Type: text/plain

   ... contents of file1.txt ...
   --AaB03x--


Is it possible to simulate the behaviour of the user agent  and 
use 
Content-type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
and send the data as 

submit-name=Larry&files"; filename="file1.txt" Content-Type: 
text/plain


That is the data will be in the form of
Name1=Value1&Name2=Value2


Thanks for help
Ladislav







From patrick at cs.ualberta.ca  Mon Jun 16 15:03:19 2003
From: patrick at cs.ualberta.ca (Patrick Earl)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:03:19 -0600
Subject: Diamond inheritance with str
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306161258390.32690-100000@calais.cs.ualberta.ca>

Hi.  I have the need to inherit from multiple classes that share the 
same base class.  This base class is a built in type like str, list, 
float, or int.

The following works:

>>> class A(list): pass
...
>>> class B(list): pass
...
>>> class C(A,B): pass
...
>>>

It also seems to work for int and float.  However, the following does 
not work:

>>> class A(str): pass
...
>>> class B(str): pass
...
>>> class C(A,B): pass
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: multiple bases have instance lay-out conflict

Why doesn't this inheritance structure work for strings?  Is this a 
bug?

Is there a good way to work around this?  Using UserString allows the 
inheritance, but I thought that UserString was considered obsolete due to 
the ability to subclass built-in types.

I appreciate any thoughts on the matter.  Thanks. :)

        Patrick

PS.  My apologies if this is a duplicate.  I'm pretty sure it's not, but I 
made a posting to python-list at python.org that didn't appear to go through.




From aleax at aleax.it  Tue Jun 17 03:11:38 2003
From: aleax at aleax.it (Alex Martelli)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 07:11:38 GMT
Subject: passing a C struct to Python and back
References: <o%xHa.213380$3C2.6469072@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <KazHa.100629$pR3.2188842@news1.tin.it>

<posted & mailed>

Kevin wrote:

> In a Python extension module, I have a struct that I need to pass to
> Python,
> then back into the extension module later for use.  Python doesn't need to
> do anything with the struct in the meantime though.
> 
> I'm trying to do it using a CObject through the following, but
> PyCObject_AsVoidPtr() returns a void*, not a struct...

Right, a void*, i.e. "a pointer to anything".  In particular, therefore,
it can be a pointer to the struct you want to pass back and forth (it
can live on the heap or in statical-lifetime memory -- not on the C stack,
obviously).

> Is there an easy way to do this?  Creating a new Python type seems like a
> big pain in the butt for something as "simple" as this.

There are many easy ways.  One is via a void*, as above.  Another is to
pass back and forth a string of bytes instead -- PyString_FromStringAndSize
to build the string object, PyString_AsString to get back the pointer to
the buffer area (as a char* to be cast) -- you shouldn't use this one if
you want your C code to modify the struct after it's been passed to Python
(strings should be immutable!).  Returning a tuple of the struct's fields
is another possibility (tuples are immutable, too), requiring more work to
pack and unpack (wasted work if Python will never need to access the
individual fields).

You could also use a "buffer object", as documented at URL
http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/bufferObjects.html -- not a very
fashionable solution nowadays but perhaps the simplest q&d fix to your
problem.  PyBuffer_FromReadWriteMemory to build (in order to use the
struct's own memory for the buffer -- this needs a struct that won't just
go away, e.g. by living on the stack;-) or PyBuffer_New if the buffer
must maintain its own memory -- and you can use the PyBufferProcs (see
http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/buffer-structs.html) to get the
pointer to the buffer's start (e.g. to memcpy the struct at start, &tc).

As I said -- plenty of choices...


Alex




From rickfrm at optusnet.com.au  Wed Jun 11 06:15:27 2003
From: rickfrm at optusnet.com.au (Rick Miles)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:15:27 +1000
Subject: idle /idlefork slackware
In-Reply-To: <EnxFa.47409$4y6.725926@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
References: <mailman.1055300241.15234.python-list@python.org> <EnxFa.47409$4y6.725926@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200306112015.27053.rickfrm@optusnet.com.au>

On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 01:30 pm, Todd Stephens was bold enough to write::
> This was brought up on the Tutor mailing list last week, actually.  No,
> Idle is not included in the Slackware Python packages, and several other
> Python "goodies" are also left out.  It is pretty much as bare-bones a
> package as you could get by with.  An email was forwarded to Pat V, but I
> doubt he is overly concerned with the Python package.  I suppose you could
> uninstall the default package, download the source tarball, do a configure
> and make, then do makepkg on it, then install it.  That way you would get
> the full Python install and it would be registered in the package manager.
> Personally, I don't use Idle that much.  I usually run KDE and use Kate.
>

Thanks Todd,

Just what Python packages and "goodies" should I be looking to install if I 
were to go for Idle on Slack instead of using Kate?  

Kate was a surprise, never used it before as I usually use mcedit, sometimes, 
kedit, and wxpe when I ocasionally mess with C.

 TIA
-- 
Rick Miles

###################################################

A silver bowl filled with snow
And a heron hidden in moonlight
Are similar but not the same;
Put them together and they are distinct.




From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 16 13:42:29 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:42:29 -0700
Subject: Python as a Language Choice
Message-ID: <bckvg4$kdoar$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

Someone in another NewsGroup asked
why I had picked Python as a language of choice ...

I offered the following reply
and would be interested in hearing from others
of any obvious ommisions that I may have made
and as to why they might have chosen Python as well ...

Stanley C. Kitching

------------------------------------------------------------

I've been programming other languages
since about 1966 but am a relative Python rookie
having used it for only a little over a year ...

As for Python as a language of choice,
I would include the following ...

   o Free ... Open-Source ... Cross-Platform ...

   o Easy to learn, easy to use, and VERY readable ...

   o Power/Punch ratio is fairly high ...

        That is, get a lot of work done
        in only a few lines of code ...

   o Very active and friendly development community
     centered in comp.lang.python where one can read
     and learn from daily posts by the authors themselves
     of popular and current Python books and modules ...

   o Large and diverse set of Application Programming Interfaces
     available in many areas ...

   o Multiple choice for GUI programming ...

         [ Tk | GTK | QT | wxPy | others ... ]

   o Core languange is readily extensible through
     and embeddable in other languages ...


-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jun 10 16:34:36 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:34:36 +0200
Subject: Access "slot" field dynamically?
References: <sllFa.660$Hw.844355@news2.news.adelphia.net> <mailman.1055258590.26664.python-list@python.org> <9boFa.674$Hw.872301@news2.news.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <bc5fuq$i28$2@main.gmane.org>

Robert Oschler wrote:

> I've read the the same comment but I like the bug-prevention aspects of it
> too much to not use it and it doesn't seem to harm anything.

except performance:

    http://www.python.org/~jeremy/weblog/030506.html

</F>







From listbox at cybereal.org  Sun Jun 15 19:56:14 2003
From: listbox at cybereal.org (Zac Jensen)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:56:14 -0600
Subject: Cannot build Tk under RedHat
In-Reply-To: <3EECF794.3030700@zg.hinet.hr>
References: <3EECF794.3030700@zg.hinet.hr>
Message-ID: <200306151756.18239.listbox@cybereal.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sunday 15 June 2003 04:47 pm, Haris Bogdanovic wrote:
> I get some errors while trying to build Tk and because of that Python's
> IDLE won't start.
> How should configure and build steps look like to properly build Tk ?
>
> Thanks
> Haris

Try a Tk help forum?

- -Zac
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From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jun 20 09:24:51 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:24:51 -0500
Subject: sourceforge problems
In-Reply-To: <oP+b0PA97r8+Ew0C@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <oP+b0PA97r8+Ew0C@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <16115.2851.995073.486228@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Robin> There are thousands of projects hosted at sf.net and it seems it
    Robin> has become a single point of failure for open source. Is it a
    Robin> good idea.

Maybe Microsoft should buy SF?

Skip





From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 10 15:36:34 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 19:36:34 GMT
Subject: You know you're a Pythonista when..
References: <af6b5bdd.0306101027.226c2b77@posting.google.com> <bc5bfl$i2k$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <bc5c02$m3r$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

... the $ight of $igil$ m at kes you $ick to your $tom at ch





From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Tue Jun  3 09:11:51 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:11:51 +1000
Subject: Passing data into my StreamRequestHandler?
In-Reply-To: <3edc96a6$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
References: <3edc96a6$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <20030603131151.GA12900@frobozz>

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 01:37:58PM +0100, Richard wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a TCP Server class using SocketServer.TCPServer( ) and a handler
> class which inherits from SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler. When an
> incoming connection is made, the overridden handle( ) function gets called
> which is fine, however can anyone tell me how I go about passing data into
> the handler object from my server object?

I don't remember enough about SocketServer to remember how to do exactly
what you asked, but....

> Here is my code:
> 
> import SocketServer
> 
> class ConnectionEndpointHandler(SocketServer.StreamRequestHandler):
> 
>  def handle(self):
>   print "Connected!"
> 
> class sServer:
> 
>  m_InAddress = []
>  m_OutAddress = []
> 
>  def __init__(self, inAddress):
>   self.m_InAddress = inAddress
> 
>  def start(self):
>   m_Server = SocketServer.TCPServer((self.m_InAddress[0],
> int(self.m_InAddress[1])), ConnectionEndpointHandler)
>   m_Server.serve_forever()

In Twisted, this looks like:

----
from twisted.internet.protocols import Protocol, ServerFactory
from twisted.internet import reactor

class MyProtocol(Protocol):
    def connectionMade(self):
        print "Connected!"
        # Write greeting defined in my factory
        self.transport.write(self.factory.greeting)

class MyFactory(ServerFactory):
    protocol = MyProtocol
    greeting = 'Homer says: "Welcome to the Internet!"\n'

def start(port):
    reactor.listenTCP(port, MyFactory())
    reactor.run()
----

In Twisted, you put a Factory on a port to listen for connections, and build
Protocol instances for each incoming connection, so (unless you're
intentionally doing something wacky) a Protocol instance corresponds to
exactly one connection.

[By default, a factory's buildProtocol handler is:

    def buildProtocol(self, addr):
        p = self.protocol()
        p.factory = self
        return p

so that protocols have access to their factory]

There are probably similar hooks you can use in SocketServer, but I'd
recommend Twisted anyway, as it's a much richer framework.

> Also, as it currently stands (I have another file which just creates an
> instance of my sServer, provides the inAddress and calls start( ) ) this
> just continually runs, printing 'Connected' every time I make a connection
> to it. I know that serve_forever( ) does this, but can anyone tell me how I
> interrupt this to exit the program? I am running on Win2K and CTRL-C doesn't
> seem to work, meaning I am forced to close down the console window.

On Win2K, Ctrl-C won't interrupt a call to select.select, and I expect this
(or something similar, like perhaps a blocking call to socket.accept) is
what is happening to you.  You may find Ctrl-Break works (so long as a
SIGBREAK handler hasn't been installed), or that hitting Ctrl-C then
connecting to your server will work (because this wakes up the select call).
You'll see the same problem if you run your code as an NT service using Mark
Hammond's win32all package, and try to stop the service.

Twisted on Win32 has a timeout on its select call (5 seconds, iirc) to
workaround this exact same problem.  I'm not sure if there's any easy way to
apply the same trick to SocketServer.

-Andrew.





From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jun 12 12:43:35 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 16:43:35 GMT
Subject: can we have a filecmp.cmp() that accept a different buffer size?
References: <3EE837DC.5080802@nospam.com>
Message-ID: <bcaajn$8l2$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:20:39 GMT, Kendear <kendear at nospam.com> wrote:

>filecmp.cmp() uses a BUFSIZE of 8k to compare.
>For files that are 500MB, the hard disk is really
>busy, going back and forth, while my 512MB RAM is
>sitting there, sipping margarita.  Can we have a
>version of filecmp.cmp() (and filecmp's other
>methods) that accepts a BUFSIZE, such as 1MB or more?
>
I haven't used it, but as a quick hack, what happens if you
import filecmp and just set filecmp.BUFSIZE to whatever
you want before using the functions?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jun 24 17:34:19 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:34:19 -0700
Subject: shebang strange thing...
References: <bcuq7k$60r$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	 <ffCIa.328$uc3.42364972@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	 <3EF3A07B.A683F94F@alcyone.com>
	 <uZSIa.534$sF6.54902840@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
	 <yKH9+ks/KvvV089yn@the-wire.com>
	 <ad052e5c.0306231529.7f05655@posting.google.com>
	 <3EF7A121.7B4C3775@alcyone.com> <7PG++ks/KrDI089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <3EF8C3DB.959B9252@alcyone.com>

Mel Wilson wrote:

>    From another angle, I've been using the program ws-ftp to
> move files betweem M$ systems and *nix systems, and it fixes
> all the line-end problems for me.  I only get bitten now if I
> move files another way.

Any FTP program will work, if you transfer them in ASCII mode.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I just want to create my own life.  I can just be me.
\__/  Ekene Nwokoye



From ss3canon at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 26 23:18:34 2003
From: ss3canon at earthlink.net (Mike)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 03:18:34 GMT
Subject: List of lists
References: <ekNKa.66745$Io.6262503@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <slrnbfn9oe.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <MFOKa.66866$Io.6273817@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <eIOKa.66868$Io.6274584@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Sorry, must of hit crtl v a couple times.





From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Fri Jun  6 10:14:00 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 06 Jun 2003 15:14:00 +0100
Subject: Loop over list of pairs
References: <mailman.1054854312.7478.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yfsof1buwd3.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

sismex01 at hebmex.com writes:
> > def xgroup(iter,n=2):
> >     """
> >     >>> list(xgroup(range(9), 3))
> >     [(0, 1, 2), (3, 4, 5), (6, 7, 8)]
> >     """
> >     last = []
> >     for elt in iter:
> >         last.append(elt)
> >         if len(last) == n: yield tuple(last); last = []
> >
> Since 'n' is known from the start you don't need to
> test against it, nor build a list piecemeal.  Something
> like this seems a bit more solid:
> 
> def xgroup(Iterable, group=2):
>    """Return a groupwise iterator for Iterable."""
>    Iterator = iter(Iterable)
>    Length = range(group)
>    while 1:
>       yield [ Iterator.next() for i in xrange(group) ]

Indeed, thanks. In addition, `iter` is also a somewhat poor choice of name.
Which I guess goes to show that cutting and pasting some code from somewhere
for a usenet should always prompt a second look at it to avoid embarrassment
:)

So I updated my version to this (which uses a precomputed xrange object for a
gain in efficiency, as you clearly intended, but didn't actually do).

def xgroup(it, n=2):
    assert n>1    # ensure it doesn't loop forever
    it = iter(it)
    perTuple = xrange(n)
    while 1:
        yield tuple([it.next() for i in perTuple])

'as



From bill.allie at mug.org  Sat Jun 28 16:17:23 2003
From: bill.allie at mug.org (Billy G. Allie)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 16:17:23 -0400
Subject: OverflowError in pyPgSQL when accessing tables with many rows
In-Reply-To: <ea170aaf.0306271856.3916b5f@posting.google.com>
References: <ea170aaf.0306271856.3916b5f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3EFDF7D3.3080801@mug.org>

Paolo Alexis Falcone wrote:

>Whenever I try to access a table with many rows using PgSQL's
>fetchall(), this happens:
>  
>
>>>>from pyPgSQL import PgSQL
>>>>db = PgSQL.connect("192.168.0.8:5432:whitegold","dondon","dondon")
>>>>PgSQL.NoPostgresCursor = 1
>>>>cur = db.cursor()
>>>>cur.execute("SELECT * FROM customer")
>>>>data = cur.fetchall()
>>>>        
>>>>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/pyPgSQL/PgSQL.py", line 3106,
>in fetchall
>    return self.__fetchManyRows(self._rows_, _list)
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/pyPgSQL/PgSQL.py", line 2684,
>in __fetchManyRows
>    _j = self.__fetchOneRow()
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/pyPgSQL/PgSQL.py", line 2660,
>in __fetchOneRow
>    _r.getvalue(self._idx_, _i)))
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/pyPgSQL/PgSQL.py", line 717,
>in typecast
>    return PgNumeric(value, _p, _s)
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/pyPgSQL/PgSQL.py", line 1335,
>in __init__
>    raise OverflowError, "value too large for PgNumeric"
>OverflowError: value too large for PgNumeric
>
>The aforementioned table, customer, only has 1023 entries with the
>following structure:
>
>CREATE TABLE customer (ccustcode varchar(80), cgroupcode varchar(10),
>clastname varchar(80), cfirstname     varchar(80), cmi varchar(10),
>ccompany varchar(80), caddress1 varchar(80), caddress2 varchar(80),
>ccity varchar(80), cprovince varchar(80), czipcode varchar(10), iterms
>integer, ycredit_limit numeric, npenalty_rate numeric,
>default_routecode varchar(10), lisdirector boolean);
>
>PgSQL's fetchone() fortunately works though, as well as using
>fetchall() on tables with few rows. Is there any alternative way of
>using PyPgSQL that would not overflow in this situation?
>
Paolo,

The problem is not the number of rows, but the fact the conversion of a 
PostgreSQL numeric to a PgNumeric is failing.  This problem has been 
fixed in the code in the CVS repository  for the  pyPgSQL project 
<http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=16528> on SourceForge.  We will 
also be releaseing a new version of pyPgSQL within the next couple of weeks.

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
____       | Billy G. Allie    | Domain....: Bill.Allie at mug.org
|  /|      | 7436 Hartwell     | MSN.......: B_G_Allie at email.msn.com
|-/-|----- | Dearborn, MI 48126|
|/  |LLIE  | (313) 582-1540    |

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From grante at visi.com  Thu Jun 12 10:31:58 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 12 Jun 2003 14:31:58 GMT
Subject: Octets calculation?
References: <65eFa.634621$Si4.577158@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <bc673d$f0tpn$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <3EE79F73.E08C2554@alcyone.com> <mailman.1055369063.13758.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3ee88ede$0$645$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1055369063.13758.python-list at python.org>, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>     >> In the real world, nobody ever uses it to mean anything other than 8
>     >> bits.
> 
>     Erik> That's simply not true.  Take embedded systems, for examples,
>     Erik> where it's not at all uncommon for a byte to be 16 or 32 bits.
> 
> It's not uncommon for a machine word to be 16 or 32 bits, but it's rare
> these days for a byte to be anything other than 8 bits.

It's not rare in the DSP world.  TI's line of FP DSPs all had
32-bit bytes.  Where "byte" is used in the sense of the "C"
standard as the smallest unite of addressable memory.  There
are quite a few integer DSPs with 16 and 24 bit "bytes".

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I just got my PRINCE
                                  at               bumper sticker... But now I
                               visi.com            can't remember WHO he is...



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jun 28 18:35:30 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Jun 2003 22:35:30 GMT
Subject: code suite as first class object ?
Message-ID: <bdl57i$mo1$0@216.39.172.122>

Useless example first:

    def foo(x):
        a = suite:
            y = 1
        b = suite:
            y = 2
        a() # equivalent effect to local y = 1 above
        (a,b)[bool(x)]() # effect of suite b if bool(x), otherwise suite a
        vars()[x]()      # succeeds if x in ['a', 'b']
        return y

Since binding of the result of suite: is in the form of an assignment, it would also be
possible to create a switch with anonymous suites directly, e.g.,

    switch = [0]*2
    switch[0] = suite: z = 3
    switch[1] = suite: z = 4
    ...
    switch[expr]()

or named ones in a chosen directory (of course the name 'switch' has no special status ;-)

    shazam={}
    shazam['one'] = suite: print 'suite one'
    shazam['two'] = suite: print 'suite two'
    ...
    shazam[suitename]()  # or use shazam.get variations if desired

or as attributes?

    class NS(object): pass
    doatt = NS()
    ...
    doatt.one = suite: print 'doatt_one'
    doatt.two = suite: print 'doatt_two'
    ...
    doatt.two()
    getattr(doatt, attname)()

(IWT bindings in potentially non-local namespaces would generally require closures,
whereas the vars()[suitename]() usage should not, unless vars() is exported (?)).

The above suites are obviously braindead placeholders. I.e., anything legal as a "suite"
should be legal, including nested suites both old and new (i.e., under e.g., "if expr:"
or "s=suite:") Note that suite: does not introduce a new (name) scope, though one suite object
can be invoked from the body of another. I'm not sure how much new stuff this would
introduce into stack-unwinding for exceptions, but it feels like there ought to be a way
to do better than ignoring suite calls as being internal to a frame ...

Implementation would be a parameterless function which uses the *current* local namespace
as its local space. I.e., no separate frame, just a byte code to execute a local function
(pushing return byte code location) and another to return (popping byte code location and
jumping there).

This would get the performance benefit of sequence indexing or dict lookup vs if/elif/else
equivalents without incurring full function call overhead.

I posted something similar before (not the exception thing ;-), but I think this is a little
better. I haven't thought through the closure issues, but there ought to be a way to handle
them, IWT.

Anyone have a real-life example of a long chain of elifs that could be recoded for
realistic comparison?

BTW, maybe "localfun" or "localcode" or "codeblock" would be better words than "suite"?

Of course, this is just HOTTOMH, so fire away and shoot it full of holes ;-)
Maybe if something survives the flames, it could be useful.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jun 22 19:10:08 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:10:08 GMT
Subject: newbie: good reasons for learning Python?
References: <3ef37a28$0$306$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <ZVLIa.468$hY1.37549@news20.bellglobal.com> <o1NIa.611$hY1.47591@news20.bellglobal.com> <JcI9+ks/KLAC089yn@the-wire.com> <_njJa.306597$3n5.22662@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbfcdqi.gfb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:51:38 GMT, Steve Holden wrote:
> "Mel Wilson" <mwilson at the-wire.com> wrote:
>>     's'[:i != 1]
>> is a cute way to generate the plural endings.
> 
> ... in English

... and is far more "cute" than it is "maintainable" or "readable".

-- 
 \      "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I |
  `\      like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."  -- |
_o__)                                                    Bilbo Baggins |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Wed Jun  4 12:13:33 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed,  4 Jun 2003 09:13:33 -0700
Subject: Possible PEP: Improve classmethod/staticmethod syntax
Message-ID: <1054743213.3ede1aad2784c@mcherm.com>

Skip writes:
> There ya go.  My original post contained this disclaimer:
> 
>     (FYI, the above is just right off the top of my sleep-starved brain.
>     I'm sure it's full of holes.)

Of course. The interesting thing here is not that you might have
missed this possibility, but that this descriptor thing is turning
out to be particularly powerful. I was warry of it at first, but am
beginning to become convinced that it is useful enough to be worth
adding to the language.

I guess in the end it's as they say: "there's only one trick in
computer science... adding another layer of indirection". But it's
a very powerful trick.

-- Michael Chermside





From manuelbastioni at tin.it  Fri Jun 20 17:36:07 2003
From: manuelbastioni at tin.it (manuel)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:36:07 GMT
Subject: os.listdir()
References: <s6KIa.218256$g92.4546830@news2.tin.it> <just-CDC716.22300020062003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <b7LIa.218628$g92.4560101@news2.tin.it>

> It's written in C, in Modules/posixmodule.c. os.py >imports it.

Thanks.

Exist another method to read the files
in a directory? I want write a script for Blender,
and because the OS module isn't builtin, and I've need
only this function, I want write a very simple
python class to read only the files in a dir.

It's possible?







From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jun  9 15:04:02 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 9 Jun 2003 12:04:02 -0700
Subject: Thoughts on cooperative methods
References: <dd5454fb.0306071114.40b8ef4c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0306091104.1d9336d0@posting.google.com>

hellen at claggetts.net (Jonathan Claggett) wrote in message news:<dd5454fb.0306071114.40b8ef4c at posting.google.com>...
> I've recently played around with using cooperative methods in python
> via the new super function and I wanted to bounce some of my thoughts
> off the python community as a sanity check. So with no particular
> rhyme and reason:
> 
> 1) When you've got cooperative methods that are 'public' (i.e., called
> from outside of the class), it is generally a good idea to refactor
> your method into two new methods: a private cooperative method and a
> public non-cooperative method. This is because the parameters of
> cooperative methods are more constrained than normal method (since
> they are cooperating). For example:
> 
> class A(object):
>     def __init__(self, arg1):
>         print arg1
> 
> class B(A):
>     def __init__(self, arg1, arg2):
>         super(B, self).__init__(arg1):
>         print arg2
> 
> is refactored into:
> 
> class A(object):
>     def __init__(self, arg1):
>         self.c_init(arg1=arg1)
>     def c_init(**dic):
>         print dic['arg1']
> 
> class B(A):
>     def __init__(self, arg1, arg2):
>         self.c_init(arg1=arg1, arg2=arg2)
>     def c_init(self, **dic):
>         super(B, self).c_init(**dic)
>         print dic['arg2']
> 
> 2) The existing super() is limited in that you have to explicitly call
> it at every level or the chain of cooperation stops. In the code
> above, the method A.c_init can't call super() since there is no c_init
> method explicitly defined above it. This limitation means that it is
> tricky to use cooperative methods with mixins or other classes. for
> example:
> 
> class Mixin(object):
>     def __init__(self **dic):
>         self.c_init(**dic)
>     def c_init(self, **dic):
>         print dic
>         super(Mixin, self).c_init(**dic)
> 
> class C(Mixin, B): pass # works
> class C(B, Mixin): pass # breaks, will never call Mixin.c_init
> m = Mixin(arg1=1, arg2=2) # breaks, super() raises an error
> 
> 3) The existing super() feels awkward to use with all of its
> parameters and I'm hoping to see a proper super keyword in a future
> release of python. It just seems like a hack at this point (not that
> I'm morally opposed to hacks or anything ;-).
> 
> 4) Finally, as an experiment, I've developed an entirely different
> approach to cooperative methods which removes the chaining limitation
> above and has a slightly less awkward syntax. This approach uses
> generators and yes, this is a hack and no, I'm not suggesting its use
> for production work. However, I do think it is a good template for how
> the super keyword might work. For example the above code becomes:
> 
> class A(object):
>     def __init__(self, arg1):
>         cooperate(self.c_init, arg1=arg1)
>     def c_init(self, **dic):
>         print dic['arg1']
> 
> class B(A):
>     def __init__(self, arg1, arg2):
>         cooperate(self.c_init, arg1=arg1, arg2=arg2)
>     def c_init(self, **dic):
>         yield self
>         print dic['arg2']
> 
> class Mixin(object):
>     def __init__(self, **dic):
>         cooperate(self.c_init, **dic)
>     def c_init(self, **dic):
>         print dic
> 
> class C(B, Mixin): pass
> 
> c = C(arg1=1, arg2=2)
> 
> where cooperate() is defined as:
> 
> from __future__ import generators
> import types
> 
> def cooperate(method, *args, **kw):
>     assert type(method) is types.MethodType
> 
>     attr_dict = dict()
>     gen_list = list()
> 
>     for cls in method.im_class.__mro__:
>         attr = getattr(cls, method.im_func.func_name, None)
>         if attr is not None and hash(attr) not in attr_dict:
>             attr_dict[hash(attr)] = None
>             gen = attr(method.im_self, *args, **kw)
>             if type(gen) is types.GeneratorType:
>                 try: gen.next()
>                 except StopIteration: pass
>                 else: gen_list.insert(0, gen)
> 
>     for gen in gen_list:
>         try: gen.next()
>         except StopIteration: pass
> 
> Sorry for the long winded post but I wanted to know what the python
> folk thought about these issues.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jonathan

A simpler alternative is to use metaclasses:

class Cooperative(type):
    """Metaclass implementing cooperative methods. Works
    well for methods returning None, such as __init__"""
    def __init__(cls,name,bases,dic):
        for meth in getattr(cls,'__cooperative__',[]): 
            setattr(cls,meth,cls.coop_method(meth,dic.get(meth)))
    def coop_method(cls,name,method): # method can be None
        """Calls both the superclass method and the class method (if the 
        class has an explicit method). Implemented via a closure"""
        def _(self,*args,**kw):
            getattr(super(cls,self),name)(*args,**kw) # call the supermethod
            if method: method(self,*args,**kw) # call the method
        return _

class A(object):
    __metaclass__=Cooperative
    __cooperative__=['__init__']
    def __init__(self, *args):
        print 'A.__init__',args

class B(A):
    def __init__(self, *args):
        print 'B.__init__',args

class C(B):
    def __init__(self, *args):
        print 'C.__init__',args

C()

# Gives:
#A.__init__ ()
#B.__init__ ()
#C.__init__ ()

                                               Michele



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jun 10 08:17:40 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 10 Jun 2003 13:17:40 +0100
Subject: interpreted
References: <M6icneVATOpIWn6jXTWcrg@comcast.com> <5yednTf1NoAdanmjXTWcpQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1055194463.17365.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87n0gqf7ob.fsf@pobox.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

> Ifman1 wrote:
> > Thanks....
> > what do you mean "anonymous coward"???
> 
> Somebody not using their real name on usenet and using a pseudonym
> like "Ifman1" instead. I call these people "anonymous cowards" :-)^
[...]

Pseudonymous cowards would be more accurate, perhaps.

As opposed to nonymous and demi-nonymous cowards.  ;-)


John



From snag at jool.po  Sun Jun 22 20:44:54 2003
From: snag at jool.po (kpop)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 01:44:54 +0100
Subject: division
Message-ID: <f2sJa.19621$pK2.28535@news.indigo.ie>

Hi, i am writing a maths program where i get input from the user and store
it in
a string. i then use the eval fucntion to return the right answer. users
could type in
"(23+ 21) - (4 * 3) + 2" for example and the function would return an int of
34 which
I would convert to a string. The problem is division, I would like it that
only
exact division was aloud, I mean no remainders.  In python "22 / 5" returs
an int of 5
i would like if that was illegal because 5 doesnt go into 22 , 4 times
exactly, and have the eval
function raise an execption which i could handle.

any advice?
Thanks





From ykingma at accessforall.nl  Sun Jun  8 14:42:56 2003
From: ykingma at accessforall.nl (Ype Kingma)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 11:42:56 -0700
Subject: Prolog-style unification?
References: <HlmEa.107$Hw.137249@news2.news.adelphia.net> <mailman.1055018594.20123.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.06.08.02.28.12.52487@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <3ee30682$0$69421$e4fe514c@dreader9.news.xs4all.nl>

Simon Burton wrote:

>
> On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 14:38:40 -0600, junk wrote:
>
>> Hi Robert,
>>
>> I am working on a Master's Thesis currently where this issue is of
>> concern.  I would also like to know if there is such a module.
>>
>> In the mean time, I have written my own module which does a pretty good
>> job of simulating Prolog style calls.  Here is what my syntax looks like
>> right now:
>>
>> import logic
>> Father = logic.Fact()
>> Father("Seth","Alex")
>> Father("James","Seth")
>> X = logic.LogicalVariable()
>> Y = logic.LgocialVariable()
...

>> while Father(X,Y):
>>     print X, Y
>
> Know about iterators?
>
> i'd like to see
> for x,y in Father():
>   print x, y
>
> are you trying too hard to adhere to prolog syntax maybe?
>

Calling Father this way could make it difficult to use it
in multiple places in a single clause. An iterator per occurence
seems just right, although I have to say that it
is decades ago that I used Prolog...

Some questions:
Is logic.Fact the good class for the backtracking needed?
Do you use 'yield' for backtracking?

Have fun,
Ype



--
email at xs4all.nl



From goboborz at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 25 15:02:08 2003
From: goboborz at yahoo.com (Gobo Borz)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:02:08 -0500
Subject: better way than: myPage += 'more html' , ...
References: <3EF9CBCB.90305@yahoo.com> <slrnbfjrjv.iqb.mirko-lists@zeibig.net>
Message-ID: <3EF9F1B0.9010104@yahoo.com>

Thanks, that opens up a world of possibilities I haven't began to 
explore.  In general, I'm not fond of templating systems because of the 
overhead, but it seems as your suggestion might be fast, since it uses 
ordinary string substitution.

--Gobo

mirko-lists at zeibig.net wrote:
> In article <3EF9CBCB.90305 at yahoo.com>, Gobo Borz wrote:
> 
>>I remember reading somewhere that building the string with successive 
>>"+=" statements is inefficient, but I don't know any alternatives, and 
>>my search attempts came up empty. Is there a better, more efficient way 
>>to do it than this:
>>
>>#---------------------------------
>>htmlPage = "<html><header></header><body>"
>>htmlPage += "more html"
>>...
>>htmlPage += "even more html"
>>...
>>htmlPage += "</body></html>"
>>print htmlPage
>>#-------------------------------------
> 
> Hello Gobo,
> 
> you may use the list solution provided in the former chapters. Some other
> solution would be to use string substitution:
> --------- snip -----------
> htmlPage = """
> <html>
>     <head>
>         <title>%(title)s</title>
>     </head>
> <body>
>     <h1>%(title)s</h1>
>     %(body)s
> </body>
> </html>
> """
> 
> body = []
> body.append("<p>my first snippet</p>")
> body.append("<ul>")
> for in range(10):
>     body.append("""<li>%s. entry</li>""" % i)
> body.append("</ul>")
> 
> contents = { "title": "My Foopage",
>              "body": "\n".join(body) }
> 
> print htmlPage % contents
> -------- snap -------------
> 
> This type of substitution goes for a very simple templating system.
> 
> Best Regards
> Mirko
> 




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jun 27 07:47:02 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 06:47:02 -0500
Subject: Activating `-i' from inside a script?
In-Reply-To: <vfnnrr3c6ojnf2@corp.supernews.com>
References: <oqwuf8cqpy.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>
        <mailman.1056674563.715.python-list@python.org>
        <vfnnrr3c6ojnf2@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <16124.11958.946104.822670@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Troy> I thought this would work, but it doesn't:

    Troy> import os

    Troy> if __name__ == '__main__':
    Troy>     discrepancy = True
    Troy>     if discrepancy:
    Troy>         os.environ['PYTHONINSPECT'] = "why yes, i'd like that"

    Troy> A quick read of Modules/main.c shows that the environment variable
    Troy> is checked at program start, not at end.  Maybe this is a bug?

The slight, obvious rearrangement to Modules/main.c seems to work.  I'll
propose it on python-dev.

Skip




From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Sun Jun 22 11:55:45 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 17:55:45 +0200
Subject: Numeric or numarray?
In-Reply-To: <bd35bl$2nh$1@gladiola.noc.ucla.edu>
References: <bd35bl$2nh$1@gladiola.noc.ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <20030622155545.GB4175@nl.linux.org>

gong li wrote:
> 1. the readme says that previous version of numarray must be   removed, 
> is it referring to Numeric also?

You don't have to remove Numeric, since numarray is not backward-compatible.
You can have them installed both (I have).

> 2. which package should i use?

Numarray is the future. Older packages use Numeric. I don't know about
technical issues, though.

> 3. whats the status of these projects?

IIRC, Numeric is no longer being developed, but I'm not sure.

Gerrit.

-- 
105. If the agent is careless, and does not take a receipt for the
money which he gave the merchant, he can not consider the unreceipted
money as his own.
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Fri Jun  6 13:06:13 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:06:13 -0600
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
In-Reply-To: <38ec68a6.0306051955.98a3dff@posting.google.com>; from afriere@yahoo.co.uk on Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 08:55:36PM -0700
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com> <38ec68a6.0306051955.98a3dff@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030606110613.A336@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Asun Friere:
  [...]
> >>>sys.ps1 = '? '; sys.ps2 = '= ' #for those reading news on the web

Why would those reading news on the web need such a substitution?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                          staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Its force is immeasurable.  Even Computer cannot determine it."
                           -- _Space: 1999_ episode "Black Sun"




From info at igdnyci.com  Wed Jun  4 21:14:36 2003
From: info at igdnyci.com (Unsubscriber)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:14:36 -0500
Subject: python-list@python.org Removed
Message-ID: <200306050114.h551Ean11856@ns45.dot5hosting.com>

You (python-list at python.org) have been removed from the IGDNYC mailing list. We apologize for any inconveniences.





From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jun 18 11:56:16 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 18 Jun 2003 16:56:16 +0100
Subject: The beauty of Python
References: <yrEHa.7094$Hb.127911@news4.e.nsc.no> <UxEHa.72090$4_1.16936489@twister.nyc.rr.com> <R5FHa.7104$Hb.128118@news4.e.nsc.no> <mailman.1055859812.32054.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87u1anmlb3.fsf@pobox.com>

Dirk Gerrits <dirk at gerrits.homeip.net> writes:

> Thomas Weholt ( PRIVAT ) wrote:
> > Well, I was hoping for smaller examples, not too advanced things, more stuff
> > you'll find in any programming language, stuff python has solved in a
> > particulary elegant way.
> 
> Well what I found particularly elegant when I was first introduced to
> Python was it's easy iteration over sequences with the for

Iterators now, of course.

[...]
> And of course I immediately loved its powerful, yet easy to use, data
> structures; especially the dictionary.

And sets!  The new set module is quite handy.  In fact, I've just
starting using 2.3, and there's a lot of stuff there that's really
nice for writing small programs (I don't see much utility in the word
'script').  logging, optparse, sets, along with the iterators and
generators from previous releases, key in dict...


John



From gerrit at nl.linux.org  Mon Jun  9 17:32:01 2003
From: gerrit at nl.linux.org (Gerrit Holl)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:32:01 +0200
Subject: PEP 317: Eliminate Implicit Exception Instantiation
In-Reply-To: <l1brx7dk9h.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
References: <mailman.1055139135.30925.python-list@python.org> <l1brx7dk9h.fsf@budvar.future-i.net>
Message-ID: <20030609213201.GA16749@nl.linux.org>

Ed Avis wrote:
> Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:
> >    raise_stmt ::= "raise" [expression ["," expression]]
> 
> Why not go further and make it look like a normal function call, that
> can take zero one or two arguments?
> 
>     raise_stmt ::= "raise" "(" [expression ["," expression]] ")"
> 
> No arguments - raise() - would re-raise the currently active
> exception, and so on.

Maybe raise could even be made a builtin-function instead of a statement?
I think there should be as few statements as possible.
Or would it be impossible because of Python's internals? I know
nothing about them...

yours,
Gerrit.

-- 
250. If while an ox is passing on the street (market) some one push it,
and kill it, the owner can set up no claim in the suit (against the
hirer).
        -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
--
Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
	http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
Het zijn tijden om je zelf met politiek te bemoeien:
	http://www.sp.nl/




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jun 27 12:10:36 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:10:36 +0200
Subject: Exposing object model in Python?
References: <bdffi1$skho2$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bdgvk5$sid7t$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <IrXKa.333801$3n5.129469@news2.central.cox.net> <mailman.1056722085.11922.python-list@python.org> <ONYKa.333828$3n5.249910@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <bdhq9b$1pk$1@main.gmane.org>

Steve Holden wrote:

> > > Unfortunately the techniques used are a little too complicated to
> > > describe in a newsgroup posting.
> > >
> > > with-apologies-to-pierre-de-fermat-ly y'rs  - steve
> >
> >     macrosource = getmacro(macroname)
> >     code = compile(macrosource, macroname, "exec")
> >     context = {}
> >     # populate context with fun things
> >     context["app"] = object_representing_my_app
> >     exec code in context
> >
> > (add exception handling as necessary)
>
> You just *love* proving me wrong, don't you?

Oh, it's just that my news reader has wider margins.

</F>







From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jun 16 22:21:23 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Jun 2003 22:21:23 -0400
Subject: Backward-compatibility: help or hindrance?
References: <mailman.1055786548.2454.python-list@python.org> <slrnbesnp6.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <bcltv3$6ej$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <slrnbesnp6.hcf.bignose-hates-spam at iris.polar.local>,
Ben Finney  <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:01:11 -0700, Michael Chermside wrote:
>>
>> the range() function could not simply be changed to work the way
>> xrange() works now, because there was lots of existing code out there
>> that assumed that range() returned a list. You see, the maintainers of
>> Python work quite hard to avoid as much backward-incompatibility as
>> possible.
>
>This concerns me.  Isn't it the dream of backward-compatibility that
>gave us the monster that is C++ trying to advance the programming art
>while leaving all the cruft of the old language built in?
>
>I wonder how long it'll be before Python's clean, simple design is
>hindered by anchors of old programming paradigms (that we presently hold
>dear), weighing down the language in the much-cursed name of
>"backward-compatibility".

You left out the part of Michael's post where he said that xrange() is
going away in Python 3.0.  Balance is everything.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not
start writing it."  --Dijkstra



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Tue Jun 17 14:03:16 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:03:16 -0700
Subject: Python as a Language Choice
References: <bckvg4$kdoar$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <bcmlcr$sds$1@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se>
Message-ID: <bcnl2v$kh1gt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

| Agreed - but I would also add:
|
| Licensing
|
| the liberal and uncomplicated  "Do Whatever You Like With It,
| just don't sue us if it doesn't work"-license
| is a *big* selling point to organisations like mine
| who have to employ people who's task is solely keeping track
| of a growing mess of evermore expensive (the norm),
| complex (always) and stupid (often) software licenses !!

Frithiof ...

I think you are correct that a more explicit statement
of licensing issues should be included ...

This would indeed be more helpful
than a casual mention of Open Source as I did
which only implies licensing in general
and not a particular type of Open Source Licensing ...

Thanks for the suggestion ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From ajthomson at optushome.com.au  Mon Jun 23 02:37:52 2003
From: ajthomson at optushome.com.au (Andrew Thomson)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:37:52 +1000
Subject: Python 2.2.3 test_re.py fails with coredump on FreeBSD 5.0, fails also on FreeBSD4.8
In-Reply-To: <bd66h5$o66$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <2251d03c.0306211009.2596e9fd@posting.google.com> <bd66h5$o66$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <20030623063752.GU4006@athomson.prv.au.itouchnet.net>

one could also just use the ports to install python..

pkg_info| grep python
python-2.2.3        An interpreted object-oriented programming language

ajt.


On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 08:25:44AM +0200, Harald Schneider wrote:
> import pre as re
> 
> is a practical workaround for most appliacations on the FreeBSD platform.
> 
> --Harald
> 
> 
> "PieterB" <pieterb at gewis.nl> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:2251d03c.0306211009.2596e9fd at posting.google.com...
> > Ok,
> >
> > I had a little look at testing Python 2.2.3 under FreeBSD and
> > 5.0. When I use './configure ; make ; make test' Lib/test/test_re.py
> > gives a Signal 10 (coredump) on FreeBSD5. The test coredumps because
> > of the following test from Lib/test/test_re.py:
> >
> > <code>
> > if verbose:
> >     print 'Test engine limitations'
> >
> > # Try nasty case that overflows the straightforward recursive
> > # implementation of repeated groups.
> > try:
> >     verify(re.match('(x)*', 50000*'x').span() == (0, 50000))
> > except RuntimeError, v:
> >     print v
> > </code>
> >
> > On FreeBSD 4.8 this test also fails, but doesn't core dump:
> > %python2.2.3 test_re.py
> > Running tests on re.search and re.match
> > Running tests on re.sub
> > Running tests on symbolic references
> > Running tests on re.subn
> > Running tests on re.split
> > Running tests on re.findall
> > Running tests on re.match
> > Running tests on re.escape
> > Pickling a RegexObject instance
> > Test engine limitations
> > maximum recursion limit exceeded
> > Running re_tests test suite
> > === Failed incorrectly ('(?u)\\w', u'\xc4', 0, 'found', u'\xc4')
> >
> > Can anybody, give me a clue:
> > a) if this is caused by a FreeBSD5.0 issue, or by Python.
> >    Can somebody test this on FreeBSD 5.1 or FreeBSD5-CVS?
> > b) how can I fix the coredump on FreeBSD 5.0?
> > c) what should be done to fix the test on FreeBSD 4.8?
> >
> > Can this related to the FreeBSD python/zope/zwiki stability problems
> > for FreeBSD.  (see http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion200306). Zwiki
> > makes heavy use of regular expressions.
> >
> > I also made some patches to make regrtest.py aware of freebsd4/freebsd5.
> > I've put them online at: http://www.gewis.nl/~pieterb/python/bugs-2.2.3/
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > PieterB
> >
> > -- 
> > http://zwiki.org/PieterB
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 





From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Sun Jun  8 23:59:48 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 15:59:48 +1200
Subject: Postfix/Prefix Operators (++,--)
In-Reply-To: <3EE14A55.AD00B185@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.1054878191.16140.python-list@python.org> <3EE05E36.40DF739F@engcorp.com> <bbq415$om3$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <3EE0B4D5.736EE894@engcorp.com> <bbqe21$l2h$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <3EE0D19C.7D7FFCA0@engcorp.com> <bbqkmc$ku8$1@ginger.mathworks.com> <3EE14A55.AD00B185@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bc0ve7$e2fa7$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Joshua Marshall wrote:
>>List comprehensions let you rebind a variable in an expression, so
>>there is some precedent for this:
> 
> I seem to recall several posts to the effect that this was an 
> unfortunate and/or unexpected and undesirable side-effect of 
> the implementation but that now that it's here, we're sort of
> stuck with it since people believe code already depends on it.

I don't think that's accurate -- I doubt there is a
substantial body of code out there that relies on the
value of a loop variable after a list comprehension
finishes.

Rather, the current semantics make it possible to
describe the effect of a list comprehension in terms
of an equivalent for-statement. If the binding behaviour
were different, the docs would have to add "except that
it doesn't have a side effect on the loop variable" or
something like that.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Thu Jun 26 09:08:57 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:08:57 GMT
Subject: add empty directory using zipfile?
References: <rsmjfvkmc2s46abk236uao8malat1t7q83@4ax.com> <Xns93A64264F1909JanC@213.118.38.24> <slrnbfl02q.ttf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <Xns93A69A1AD7D80JanC@213.118.38.24>

Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> schreef:

> A better solution might be to use tar (or cpio) for archiving, since
> they can add directories as well as files, and can also preserve file
> permissions from Unix filesystems.
> 
> You then get the benefit of choosing whatever compression method you
> like for the resultant archive.  gzip and bzip2 both offer superior
> compression to the built-in compression for Zip.

You can use bzip2 compression in a zip file (it's in the recent specs), but 
probably not with zipfile, and most zip utilities can't uncompress it 
anyway.

A disadvantage of .tar.whatever is that it is stream-based: no random 
access to a single file in the archive...

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Mon Jun  9 11:53:47 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 10:53:47 -0500 
Subject: cut off \n
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F06233050503F8@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Tom [mailto:llafba at gmx.net]
> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 10:51 AM
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have to read data from a file to a list. Unfortunately most of the 
> data that I read into my little list ends with a linefeed \n.
> Right now I get rid of this by just cutting off the last 
> character. (a = > l[:-1]).
>

This is *almost* the correct way to do it :-)

>
> My problem is that sometimes the last line of the file has a \n and 
> sometimes not. With the method above I sometimes cut off parts of my 
> string. So it would be much nicer if I can find out if the data does 
> have a \n and then cut it off.
>

You could do somethint like:

    if line.endswith("\n"):
        line = line[:-1]

or, if trailing whitespace is not significant (you don't mention it),
you can also do something like:

    line = line.rstrip()

or, if leading whitespace is not significant either, you can also
trim all leading and trailing whitespace, thusly:

    line = line.strip()


> 
> This is probably a very common problem but I am pretty new to Phython 
> and could find anything useful with google. :-(
> 
> Thanks, Tom
>

Perl has yet-another-kinda-useful-function called "chomp", which
deletes a line ending from a string, only if it's found.  Alas,
python is chompless, not that I'm complaining, the above code
is what I use all the time.

-gca

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From aldo at nullcube.com  Thu Jun  5 08:23:19 2003
From: aldo at nullcube.com (Aldo Cortesi)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:23:19 +1000
Subject: Totally Confused: Passing variables to functions
In-Reply-To: <i39udvo7e11828rkmudo93hj3dr68bft95@4ax.com>
References: <m6ptdvg3p8dvcbpg7qhelb7s2i0slrk7b0@4ax.com> <m24r34pzkj.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz> <i39udvo7e11828rkmudo93hj3dr68bft95@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030605122319.GC30883@nullcube.com>

Thus spake Chuck (cdreward at riaa.com):

> I'm new here...
> 
> >  >>> v = [1,2]
> >  >>> arg = v
> >  >>> arg.append(3)
> >  >>> v
> >  [1, 2, 3]
> 
> I'm not "getting" variables in Python, then.
> 
> What exactly happens when I say "arg = v"?

"v" is just a label, which points at the list [1, 2]. You
then set another label, "arg", equal to "v". You now have
two labels pointing at the same list. Python objects exist
quite independently from the labels that point at them, with
the sole caveat that when no more labels point at an object,
it is destroyed. 

Here's a nice little post by Guido explaining all this
graphically:

http://tinyurl.com/djbc


> Not "arg is assigned the value [1,2] that v happens to hold"...
> 
> Not "arg now points to v" (can't be, since you can delete v and arg still
> exists)

No - "arg" and "v