Python syntax in Lisp and Scheme

Andrew Dalke adalke at mindspring.com
Thu Oct 9 19:15:17 EDT 2003


Edi Weitz
> As far as "mix and match" of packages is concerned: Use Debian
> (testing) or Gentoo. I've been told it's just a matter of some
> invocations of 'apt-get install' or 'emerge' to get the CL packages
> you want. At least it shouldn't be harder than, say, getting stuff
> from CPAN. What? You don't use Debian or Gentoo? Hey, you said you
> wanted "free" stuff - you get what you pay for.

Python's free.  And I've paid for it in my efforts.

My primary machine is Mac OS X.  I always got frustrated getting
fonts, sound, and movies working under the various Linux-based
distributions, and I suspect there are the same problems with
BSD-based distributions.

I downloaded (years ago) the Allegro demo package, but that
was to test a package from biolisp.org.  There being no other
code for doing bioinformatics, and given my known proclivities
for Python, I didn't see the justification of paying for the full
commercial version.

> So, here are your choices:
>
> 1. Buy a commercial Lisp. I've done that and I think it was a good
>    decision.

I'm already making my living from doing Python, so I've got an
incentive to stay with it.  ;)

In the scientific conferences I attend, no one I've seen uses Lisp
for their work, excepting those old enough that they started before
there were other high-quality high-level languages.

No one has told me they would hire me for contract work "if only
you were a Lisp programmer."

If the barrier to entry to do what are common-place tasks requires
I buy a commercial Lisp then it's much less likely others will use
my code.  I like having others use my code.

(Then why do I use Python?  It's a tradeoff, since writing Java/C++
is just too tedious.  And I like the people in Python (Hi Laura!).
And I'm picky the domain -- I like doing computational life sciences.)

> 2. Try to improve the situation of the free CL implementations by
>    writing libraries or helping with the infrastructure. That's how
>    this "Open Source" thingy is supposed to work. I'm also doing this.

And I'm doing it for Python.  For my domain, it seems like a much
better language choice, for reasons I've mentioned here several times.

> 3. Run around complaining that you can't use Lisp because a certain
>    combination of features is not available for free. We have far too
>    many of these guys on c.l.l.

Technically I'm cross-posting from c.l.py.  And I actually complain
for other reasons.  ;)

> 4. Just don't use it. That's fine with me.

So far I've made ... 4(?) half-hearted attempts at learning Lisp.
And 1 at learning Haskell.  And 0.1 at learning OCaml.

> It currently looks like the number of people choosing #2 is
> increasing. Looks promising. You are invited to take part - it's a
> great language and a nice little community... :)

"A rising tide lifts all boats".  The same is true in Python, in
Java, in Ruby, in ...

> PS: You might also want to look at
>
>       <http://web.metacircles.com/cirCLe+CD>.

*sigh*.  Another package that doesn't (err, won't) work on my
Mac.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com






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