query

[Alex Martelli]

<posted & mailed>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> "drn" <bmproj2003 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:2003929-93022-80040 at foorum.com...
>>  as we are going to develop a educational s/w for children at
> preprimary level
> 
> My daughter started with simple games at about age 3, so I know this
> can be productive.

Ditto (and now she's just started university -- telecom engineering:-).


>> -----shall we go for individual terminals with Linux 7.3, and with a
> minimum of > around 600 MB of free space,Minimum requirement for RAM
> 32 MB. >Minimum requirement for Hard Disk 2.1GB,
> 
> The cheapest machines you can buy in US (about $600) have much more
> than this.  With duplicate machines, any program you develop on one
> will run on all.

Wrong!  You may be thinking of *general-purpose* "machines", but it
seems to me drn may not need general-purpose machines.  See:
http://info.lindows.com/webstation/ -- $169 base price, runs Linux
(lindows version) from CDROM ("unbreakable", "virus-proof":-), 800 MHz
processor, 256 MB RAM, no hard disk, no floppy, but with good audio
and video, and 10/100 Ethernet.

Basically you point its browser to wherever (presumably on the local
LAN) the specialized server (which I would suggest writing in Python
with Twisted, or perhaps with apache+webware) lives, and off you go.
(If you want speakers, they're $5 extra; so is each of keyboard and mouse,
and a screen [monitor] is also extra -- $120 for 15", $143 for 17").

I'm not quite sure what the OP means by "Linux 7.3" (there is no
such animal -- the next coming release of Linux will be 2.6; he may
be thinking of some specific DISTRIBUTION of Linux, such as Mandrake,
RedHat, SUSE -- I think 7.3 is very old for each of those, of course
by different degrees since each keeps their own numbering;-), but I
suspect Lindows OS 4.0 will be fine for him.

If you do want a hard-disk in addition, admittedly the cheapest that
you can add is 40GB, making the total (with speakers, keyboard, mouse
AND 40 GB HD) $262.  Still a fair bit less than $600 -- but I suspect
(no direct experience with these webstations yet) that you could more
cheaply get the diskspace from the central server via NFS anyway (as
to how to configure and startup the machines to get their NFS shares,
when the boot is always from CDROM, that's the part I don't know -- I
suspect you may be able to save such config info on a floppy, the
drive being $12 and taking the machine cost to $196 sans monitor --
$316 with a 15" monitor, $339 with a 17" monitor instead).  Given that
the machines are advertised to come with the OpenOffice suite, I
guess/assume there must be SOME way for you to get disk space (e.g.
on the LAN) to save your work on -- be it NFS, SMB, or whatever.


>>There will be no networking even  among machines at one location.
> 
> I think this would be a mistake.  Network cards cost US$10-20.  An
> 8-port hub or router < $200, I think.  When you write a program, it
> will be *much* easier to install on other machine with a network.  The
> same will be mostly true for files downloaded from Internet.

Yes, it would be a disaster to forego the advantages of networking.
Note that the above-mentioned "webstations" CRUCIALLY rely on the
LAN to be usable -- and, like just about all computers these days,
they come with 10/100 ethernet connectivity built-in anyway.  I have
seen 5-port 10/100 switches sold in stores, *VAT INCLUDED*, for
$50 or less around here (so I'm sure they're cheaper in the US) --
a few meters of cable, and off you go.


>> -----which lanuage do you suggest - c/c++ or any browser based
> software like
>> php/python.
> 
> Python is not browser based.  It is a complete standalone language
> just like C/C++.  It also has many free add-ons available, like
> PyGame, which you might
> find useful for games and other graphics work.

Absolutely.  But Python is PERFECTLY suitable for writing special
purpose webservers -- or serverside applications that run together
with apache -- which might be the best way to arrange the OP's
goals.  It's simply a more powerful AND simpler language than PHP,
much higher-level than C, and MUCH simpler than C++.  The only
alternatives to Python which I think might be worthy of the OP's
attention (if in his environment it should be easier to find
programmers for those alternative languages) would be other languages
of similar power and semantically high level: Ruby, Smalltalk, Common
Lisp, O'CAML, Dylan, Haskell... out of all of these, Ruby and Python
are the only two that can be learned FAST by typical programmers (i.e.,
unless you start with programmers already skilled in some of the
other ones), and Python is overall a bit simpler, roughly of the
same power of Ruby, IMHO more suitable for multiple programmers to
work together (because it emphasizes uniformity, while Ruby has
emphasis on individual unbridled originality), AND offers vaster
choice in terms of existing add-ons, extensions, integration with
webservers and frameworks for writing standalone special servers
(Twisted above all!), development environments, books, etc, etc.

So, it would seem to me that Python should be the obvious choice
unless special circumstances apply (e.g., half a dozen skilled
Common Lisp coders are already around and available -- in such a
fortunate case, by all means go with Common Lisp, for example).


>> please help and send your suggestions as soon as possible.
>> my email id is bmproj2003 at yahoo.com
> 
> Posted and CCed

Ditto.


Alex